212 Cochituate Rd Advisory Committee
3-Sep-25 - 212 Cochituate Road Advisory Committee02:01:27
6-Aug-25 - 212 Cochituate Rd Advisory Committee 2025 08 0601:25:05
Unknown: Yeah. three. Are.
right? Yeah. okay. good enough.
Yeah. alright. so
Tom Fay: I want to commence the
meeting of the 212 Cochituate
road Advisory Committee. 630 on
September 3. 2025 like to
welcome everyone here this
evening. for those that are in
this room and those that are
with us online. just to begin
like to review the agenda for the senior director wall of meeting the fire room. People can watch this meeting remotely with length. and it will be available on WayCAM as well as it is being recorded. we invite people to give public comment. if they like public comment. Two Minutes joining us tonight in person are John Thomas Dean. Milgram and Bill Adams. I'm Tom Fay online. we have Stephanie Lynch and anyone else online. Robbie besides Stephanie. others that join us. An eye out for them and bring them over. Yeah. I'd appreciate that possibly Bill Whitney will join us. and possibly Mike Steve will join us. So after we listen to any public comment. we'll welcome persons from the high spirit East community. as well as high spirit Community Farm. high spirit east and related organizations to talk about their work. and this will include the presentation of a film. which would be approximately 45 minutes in length. After that. we'll have discussion on their organization and work they do invite questions from members of the committee. Once that portion of the meeting is over. we'll consider minutes from our last meeting. August 6. After that. we'll discuss proposed Request for Information persons organizations involved in shared living opportunities. and then after that. we will likely adjourn. So at this time. like to invite anyone who would like to give public comment to step forward. Seeing none anyone online. Like to give public comment. I see no one online. great. So at this time. I'd like to invite Catherine Stanley to step forward and tell us about your organization. organization and related organizations. and thank you for coming this evening and how we'd like to proceed in your perspective this evening. Sure. thanks for Unknown: having us. Really appreciate it. I'm the president. co founder of the board for high spirit East community. We're connected to Bob and Jailyn Swain and Jai Wallace. who are here tonight. and because they have the first high spirit Community Farm in green Barrington and I found out about their model through a friend. and they've been mentoring me and sharing that model. and we're building a similar model. but in eastern mass and Metro West area and hopefully Wayland. So that's why we're here tonight to share a movie about. you know. their experience. and why it's a little different than other models. Mama. a mom of a special needs child who's 22 at history and Paul. so we're building an accessible community in the high spirit model. Tom Fay: Yeah. well. I invite you to proceed. I think you want to start on the movie. Is that right? Unknown: I just want to also say that Angela and Mark Charney are here. and David Stanley and Ada. and they're all part of high spirit East as well. Bob swan is well. I'm happy to introduce the movie Tom. that's all right. yeah. thank you for having us just a good spot to stand super spot. And I have written this out so I don't miss anybody's name. and I'll make it brief. I'll be within my two minutes. Thank you for giving us this time. We are honored to. Here and to share our story with you. I am one of the people who founded high spirit Community Farm. a small community for adults with intellectual disabilities and autism. At high spirit people find meaningful week work. supportive friends and a welcoming community. In a few minutes. we'll be showing a film where you will learn much more about high spirit Community Farm and why we need. needed created here. My wife. Ginny and I are parents of bar Swain. who's featured in the film you'll see Tom Ginny is here with me this evening. We're also joined by others that have been vital to high spirits work. Jay Wallace. a board member for more than 10 years. has given countless hours to making high spirit thrive. Leslie Eshelman. long time house parent at high spirit plus he now serves as the executive director of high spirit advisory advising families who are looking for solutions for their adult children with disabilities. Plus his husband. Derek. is on the board at high spirit community farm. We are here tonight to support the vision of Catherine and the high spirit East team. including David. Stanley. Angela Christoffel and Mark Charney. who are here with us tonight together. they are following a model that of high spirit to create high spirit east. a place where adults with significant disabilities can live in the least restrictive environment possible. High spirit east will support them as they spend their lives with meaningful work. friendship and a part of a community where they truly belong. Wayland. we believe is the ideal home for high spirit. East your town is known for its spirit of community. where neighbors know each other and come together for events and activities. We want that for our people. We want that for everyone. Finally. I'd like to thank Billy Parker. who made this film. Billy is here tonight. Before the pandemic. He asked if he could come film at high spirit. We agreed. and the result is what you'll see tonight. He calls it a documentary. I call it a love story. Billy is here with us. and I hope this film gives you a true sense of what high spirit is really trying to achieve. We'll all be available for questions after but enjoy the movie you
Tom I mess with the Shays. By all means. ladies and gentlemen. we're
here today to recognize the LTA achievement. these athletes Coming in second place. Mike Whitney in first place. I
i Every year. hundreds of 1000s of American adults are left behind. penalized. in fact. the very moment they reach adulthood. Bar Swain could have shared the same fate. if not for the persistence of his parents and others. This is his story toward a better path and brighter future.
My son. bar. was born with a severe intellectual disability. He had club feet. He has scoliosis. He had very low muscle tone. and our initial diagnosis was that he would never walk or talk.
There's no genetic anomaly that we can find. and there's no other significant health diagnosis. He doesn't have a diagnosis. At first. it was really frustrating for me. I wanted to be able to know so I could go to the library and look it up if he just had Down syndrome. I would know what their trajectory was.
Those first few years. you go to every specialist to figure out what surgery or what what pill can we take to fix this? This person has not been built to specifications. and we know how to fix that. He was getting therapy all the time. and nothing seemed to really be working. and they finally just had a counseling session with me and said. you know. what do you want us to do? And I just burst into tears and was screaming at them and saying. I want you to fix him. And. And they didn't really know what to say. because they can't fix him. and they were just dealing with my sort of stages of grief. Bob was much better on that than I was. He's much better on this. Is the way it is. I would say I always thought we were leading to something. and I would say Jenny always thought we were surviving. I think it was just I wasn't able to sort of be joyful in life and connect with people. sort of spending much of the week going in and out of hospitals and therapies. I think the guilt is the probably the piece that breaks up families the fastest. Like. what did I do to cause this disability in my child? Or. what did my wife do to cause this disability in my child coming out the front door? You Swayne. alias
Cowboy Bob. Hey there. Cowboy bar spent most of his early years at home. and he was soon joined by his sister Molly. And while he had a rich home life. his parents decided that for him to develop. he needed to be among peers. and he went to Franciscan Children's Hospital. It was very much a hospital setting. Didn't feel normal at all. He would be surrounded by three or four therapists. He started to think that women aged 26 were like there to serve Him. So we went back to Cambridge and said we'd like to have him in with his typical peers. And Cambridge said no. and then we went to court. We had a settlement. and they agreed to take him in public school. And we're very. very lucky to find a principal in Cambridge who welcomed us wholeheartedly.
In my town. in my elementary school. students with disabilities were never seen. They were in the basement. Those kids came to school after we did. They left school before we got dismissed. nobody ever talked about them. even though a lot of questions like. Who are those kids? We never see them. We know they're there. We hear them. I can remember thinking to myself. Wow. those kids must have something terrible that if you have contact with them. you'll get in many ways. we were taught to be fearful. Some of our understanding about people with disabilities is out of ignorance and not out of knowing them as people who have feelings. who want to belong and contribute in some way when we presume that they can't. They never do because no one bothers to disrupt that expectation and those kids saying. What have I done wrong if we can't have kids together when they're five years old. when can we because that is when the developmental differences are at the at the smallest that they'll ever be. And I think that's the story of Bar. Bar participated in every one of our programs. playing with blocks. painting. being in the dramatic Playhouse. things that were shared with typical peers who didn't know what Barr's IEP said he was one of them. I think those kids weren't scared of bar and are probably not scared of that difference ever since he loved his classmates who were sort of naturally care giving us. Most kids are the kids were great. Come on. bar. let's go down. We're gonna have lunch now. and we're sort of mother hens. When he got to the classroom. he did not walk. He drooled quite a bit. and kids don't really like to be around somebody who's drooling all the time. so he stopped drooling. The same thing happened with the walking. So he's able to crawl and make very slow progress. and everybody goes out to the playground. but then he wanted to get up. and within six months. he was walking. So bar had already exceeded by a lot the low expectation that he could walk. let alone the academic and social gains the kids. Man. no problem. Give me the kids any day. It was the parents. because their experience was actually not this. Their experience was similar to mine. Was important for all of our kids in terms of their view of the world. not assuming that people who can't run as fast as you can can speak as well as you can. that there's. Still capable. It was really the significant transformation of a school community. We were known well beyond Cambridge for what we stood for. We helped people uncover their biases and build new ideas for what it meant to be different. I learned a lot from bar
taking a picture.
JT as a
family of four. and then when Henry was born a family of five. it was very bar focused in wonderful ways. Being bars brother absolutely shows up in many of the ways that I see myself in the world and the ways that I interact with other people. It's something I'm really grateful for. that I have this inherent belief and understanding that relationships are built around empathy. I think I learned about difference young in life in ways that others take a lifetime to know or maybe never know. and my best friends as a kid were family and my neighbors and my neighborhood crew was so core to who I was and my school friends were school friends. I mean. those things were totally separate. I have thought many times that that sort of privacy wall comes from an early age of not sure how to share this piece. So I remember people finding out way later that she had a brother with a disability. and thinking that they would all know and they didn't. But wow. there was so much love. And I saw that expressed a bar. I felt that in every way we have really made all of our decisions based on how does that tighten our tight little family community. How does it tighten our broader friend group and how do we expose ourselves to the rest of the world? As time went on. school became much more of a struggle for bar inclusion works for a lot of people. I think the whole way through. I think for people with challenges such as bars. other kids start to have inhibitions. The care giving kids are less caregiving. and the curriculum is really disruptive by having someone who has no idea what math is or what geography is. Eventually it was clear that wasn't working anymore. and we went to look at schools for children with special needs. Tom. he ended up in a collaborative which was supposed to still be inclusion. but it really ended up being sort of a resource room down at the end of the hall. It was a little tiny classroom with concrete walls. and they wouldn't even let the kids in that classroom go to lunch at the same time as other kids were having lunch. Bob and I were just thinking. this is the best we can do for this kid. how incredibly lonely and boring
the Swain family was about to undergo a momentous change. Bob and Jenny were facing one of the biggest decisions of their lives. sending bar to the Camp Hill School in Pennsylvania. He was the biggest part of our tight family. and he was what we all did. So to have him go away to school was absolutely not in a million years. Would that be something that would be okay? And Jenny dragged me down there to look at it. We both loved it. That wasn't the problem. It was just. could we really send a little 13 year old kid. let alone a developmentally disabled 13 year old kid to boarding school in Pennsylvania? Just. just crazy. I just remember dropping bar off. and we were asked to leave pretty quickly. and we weren't come back for a month. We just got in the car and Bob was sobbing. I drove all the way back. and he just cried for six hours. It was just awful. But there was definitely more of me saying. Okay. now we have two other kids at home. and this is their moment. Well. they've been asked to be quiet and independent for 11 years for my daughter. but it's time for us to be with them.
Hi. perfect. Matthew. very nice. I'm very
impressed. Only like two months since you've been here. Yeah. The Camp Hill School is part of a network of Waldorf schools that originated in the Moors near Aberdeen. Scotland. It was there that an Austrian physician Carl Koenig. influenced by Rudolf Steiner. Started a school and then a series of villages for children and adults with intellectual disabilities. He was part of a group of Jewish intellectuals and educators who had been driven out of Vienna by the Nazis. It really started through this group of people being unprepared. and Carl Koenig and his wife Tiller having to teach people. and not just how to teach people how to teach people how to how to work with children with disabilities. but these were intellectuals. So they didn't shine their shoes. they couldn't do their laundry. they couldn't cook. They certainly never farmed. They were torn out of this cosmopolitan intellectual. artistic center of Europe and thrown into this hillside with nothing around but sheep and Bracken in every direction you looked in every sense of the word. They were refugees. They were torn out of their culture. They were torn out of their language. They were strangers in a strange land. The founding circle of co workers realized they had a lot in common with the children for whom they were caring. who were refugees in a different sense from a society that didn't have space for people with special needs. Children with developmental disabilities may have no access to schooling if they were not living in their families. kind of hidden away. They were institutionalized in places that best took reasonable care of them. If there was no notion of development. institutional life was the best that anyone could hope for this approach of actually living and working with children with disabilities. The idea was that that disabilities could be remediated and that there could be growth. You would apply arts and education. I mean. almost as nutrition. to sort of feed a child's soul. We weren't just looking at the physical body or a broken mechanism. and you're really looking at the energy. the life force. that is in the human being.
You what soon came to be known as the Camp Hill experiment flourished. and after World War Two. it had become more of a movement. There are now over 120 Camp Hill communities worldwide. and 15 in North America. including the school where Barr found a home when this location opened in the 1960s it was a stark contrast to most of the institutions for people with disabilities that were painfully similar to the grim Victorian institutions from the previous century. The people who started those hospitals certainly wanted to create a comfortable life for the people who lived in them. but they also wanted to build a larger society in which people with disabilities would play a smaller and smaller role. People were being segregated at the lowest possible cost to the larger society. The people who created those hospitals were the same people who invented IQ tests classifying people you wound up in one of those hospitals if you fell out at the low end of the classification scheme. and you were there in large part to keep you from reproducing. as well as to keep you safe and fed. The classic institutional paradigm this group of people is being paid to take care of that group of people was fully in force. Those are the only two groups of people present in these hospitals that is always dehumanizing no matter how charitable the intentions of the caregivers. They will not see the other person as fully human if they regard them exclusively as an object of care.
The typical landing places for people with disabilities through most of the 20th century continued to be these large institutions. many of them rife with neglect and abuse. The disability rights activism in the 1970s turned a light on these abuses. forcing most of them to shut down. But the timing was unfortunate. so just at the moment when society is saying our whole approach to people with disabilities has been wrong. and we need to create something radically different. You have powerful policy makers saying we need to reduce government expenditures no matter what. and large mental hospitals were shut down without a clear idea about what's going to replace them. Sadly. nothing has really replaced them. and almost all of these patients simply went home. And that has been the fate of the vast majority of adults with intellectual disabilities ever since because
we are on a circle too much forward you cover the people there on the other
side who is willing to do like here? Yeah. so you go there. Okay. just a sec been
doing this for some. Many years.
The Camp Hill School today has 70 elementary and high school students and is a well established destination for children with disabilities from around the world. What we are looking for is to nourish the inner soul of the child. not only how to function. but how to be and to grow as a human being. And some of this substance. if it's brought in the right way. awakens the children to the world in a very different way. The loveliest thing that I remember about bar is his warmth and his appreciation for people and his longing to communicate. I recall his need to really learn how to work. He was not somebody who naturally went towards work. He would rather be social. I think bar kind of likes to be the wheelbarrow guy. That's his reputation. He had to get there. though. Let me put it that way. It's the first point where we can see bar can learn to work a wheelbarrow and work in a garden and be a member of a working crew and get joy and pride and satisfaction out of doing so bar could contribute. and that was really the first time in his life that he'd ever been a contributing member of the community. and that was Huge for him.
All right. All right. Show us how you want to stand. Audrey. how do you want to stand? Yes. you stand in front of the chair. How do you want to stand now. look at Michael and show him that you're a 12th grader. Yeah.
Look at me. Chin down. down here. Too much. I
Fay. as with other high school seniors around the country. graduation is an exciting rite of passage for the students at the Camp Hill School. since college is not an option for most of them. and alternative landing places are hard to find. Camp Hill started a transition program down the road called Beaver farm. Mama's always telling me stop driving sugar trap people's ears off. then they want to step away and talk to someone else. Oh. wow. You could call it sort of like a college for 18 to 21 year olds with special needs. But that really focused on life skills. programming. social programming. vocational programming. we could really scaffold those experiences. So did you pick some of these flowers? Yeah. six. Did you pick? Help pick some of these flowers? Colin with us? Yes. yeah. we harvest them in the spring. in the fall. Never.
We have gardens that grow green stuffs that we eat. We have commercial cut flower gardens. We have field crops for our livestock. We breed and raise beef and pork. We have a herd of sheep. We have chickens. We have hens for eggs. The students are involved in all of that. The production of food and the consumption of beautiful food together in social settings is also a large part of what we do. we have very independent people who are academically independent. physically independent. very verbal. And we have people who need physical support to take them from A to B and we mix them together. It's not such that high functioning ones are doing special things and the rest doing something else. No. we want to. We want to work together as a team.
Bar spent four happy years at Beaver farm and graduated when he turned 22 but turning 22 isn't the same for everyone. For too many of the young people who graduate from Beaver farm. Life goes on. but the music finally stops. All across the country. education. vocational training. therapies and other supports that schools have been providing since childhood come to an end. These students have spent years in a community of enrichment and meaningful work. and then they commit the crime of turning 22 if you graduate from our program. and you're gone for four months and you've gained 50 pounds. and you don't have a program. I think it's a neglect. I think it's a neglect they've been looking forward to so much of coming to that age of graduation and moving on to the world. life should be full of excitement. And then they leave the school system when they graduate from the farm. And for many of them. there's nothing out there. They've needed all that support. They've had therapies. and they've had IEPs and all that. And suddenly. now. you know. Need any support. you'll see people that have had severe behavior issues when they first came to the school. They may have been self injurious and biting themselves and biting themselves. biting themselves so that they're scarred. and banging their heads against the walls. They may have been aggressive towards. you know. other students or staff members. You see these people. they've been able to sort of work with those things and become really socially integrated. really caring people. and then they leave. and they're with unskilled staff that are paid very poorly. that rotate very quickly in group home settings where there's not very much for them to do. where they're unlikely to have. you know. any kind of meaningful employment. And the behaviors come back. The families go through this continual mill of trying to find placement after placement and the group homes torn apart. I mean people that you could happily live with and share family life with. and they're kicking holes in the drywall and smashing the TV set. Many of the students that I first worked with years ago are now in their 40s. and I've outlived a significant number of them. inactivity. bad food choices. heavy medication. diabetes. obesity. all of it unnecessary. The kind of rich community life that is multi layered and really supportive is not something that was supposed to provide for adults. because it's regarded as being institutional. The notion that you would have people with intellectual disabilities living anywhere near one another is anathema to kind of modern policy and modern academia. They're not allowed to live together. work together. They're going to receive government funding. and some people need a lot of help and scaffolding. And how do you make sure that you get the regs out of the way so that you can build community. Community is based on deep. loving relationships with other human beings. So we're gonna care about you across a broad span of time. You become part of their story. and they become part of yours. That's something that we're good at. and it's something that is relatively easy to do. that legislation is stopping it from happening. and that's kind of a tragedy. You kind
of a tragedy back at home. Bob and Jenny knew this all too well. and their research led them to one dead end after another. the metrics of turning 22 are really terrible. In Massachusetts alone. there were a backlog of over 170.000 people who were living at home because there were no options available to them. And it's daunting for all parents. Every parent meeting after about age 15 people see they're 22 on the horizon. and they're so afraid for their child. you can advocate for some services. but they're very hard to come by. Could you take something like the transition program at Beaver farm. which is funded by local education authorities at school still. and could that be a prototype for adult living? Because that would be the real thing. I mean. could you do this with adults? The short answer to that question is yes. While bar was still at Beaver farm. Bob and Jenny teamed up with other parents and spent years laying the groundwork for what has become high spirit Community Farm. a work life pilot program. It doesn't have the acreage or production of beaver farm. but it does have its own cast of characters. There's honey and butter. cookie and monster. and of course. people. where do you think you're gonna go to a playground? I get
Okay. so this one was from Bill Adams: when you were in Florida. So what should we say Unknown: to dia? It says Tom Fay: Happy Birthday to you. I love mom. and you can put will or Willie. Which one. which one? Unknown: You tell me. well. we only will on this one. Okay. I just did it really. May I asked about questions. information. names. yep. yep. Your oldest child's name is Harry. He was born on January 15 to 1999 1995 it's 95 Sunday. the day before Martin Luther King. doing younger brother Jack. He was born on August 8. what year 1999 23 is coming up this month. August 8. I think it's 24 maybe it's 20 You're right. It's 23 congratulations. Always. Never forget. I will never forget. I like you too. I like you too. Instead of interrupting. none without interruption. No. there was no interruption. Thank you. Billy. I wish I had better answers. Thanks a lot. Thank you. I'm amazing. I thought you were going to go to school beaver farm in April. I. Easy. right? Oh. you're just going to zoos. right? You graduated. Hill. yeah. you're just going to zoos. right? You graduated. Hold on. Do you know where you're going to go? In 2024 day. Tim Park. zoo. book. video. zoo in 2024 What state are those zoos in? Are they in New York? Are they. I don't know what. Chicago? Oh. they're in Chicago. Starting to go to Illinois. 10 years ago. Derek and Leslie were a pair of aspiring farmers who had no idea how much their lives were about to change. So we really definitely thought that this was just going to be a stepping stone for us. Working with people with disabilities was an interesting bonus. but not something we were interested in long term. Our long term goal was actually to get a huge farm and live by ourselves with our dog. Even when we took the position. it was definitely with the goal of just getting that farm up and running. I wasn't even excited about the nature of the work. and then Jimmy brought bar to meet us. Derek and I were both shocked and overwhelmed. we couldn't understand what bar was saying. He clearly needed a lot more physical help than what I had anticipated. He loves physical contact. which. if you're new to that. that can be very overwhelming. I think our jaws kind of dropped. to be honest. and we just thought. Well. here goes. And I mean. it took a matter of days before Derek and I realized that we would like to keep the job more than just temporarily. What about rock? Yeah. all
right. we can watch it on YouTube or something. How many leaves do you see? 123.
and four? Can you get four leaves and put them in the bowl? One. ready? This one. maybe not that one. How about this one.
In the last 10 years. high spirit has expanded to three houses. multiple householders. staff. members and volunteers. And the one word that keeps popping up is community. That can mean different things to different people. It's just neighborhood living just lots of people pouring energy into the day together. You don't have to be a weirdo to be able to enjoy living here. What high spirit is doing is intentionally creating a community of difference. There is no end goal besides community. Well. the idea of living in community was actually kind of terrifying. but once we started living at high spirit. it was just impossible not to love them and not to see how this lifestyle not only benefited them. but it also benefited us and how we needed community. Can you tell me about the tools that you have there and your tool belt and my chip and temperature. I got my this and my so your level. yeah. got any other tools? No hammer either. Oh. we gotta get you a hammer. What happened to your hammer? What do you got there money? What do you use? What do you use that for? You like to spend some money. What do you like to use your dollars for? So does so funny? Normally. all afternoon. you keep talking all afternoon. Now everybody's getting a little shy. No. I'm not. No. I'm fine. Now here's your coming from working in group. home experiences or day programs. We were always taught that we are not friends. We are friendly professionals. The staff there. they're there for eight hours. then they check out. They're done. You're there to get them their shower. get them their meds. make sure they eat. That's it. You have employees. and you have people who receive their services. They never really sat right with me. That's the nature of their job. They can't help it. but it makes it harder to really work on that constant growth. But this is really nice. because we have that time. and there's not that constant shift change. that constant turnover. So we can be more focused on the whole person. We're more worried about living a life with these residents. that it's more important to build memories together. They're very communicative. A lot of people look at them and say. Oh. well. I can't talk with them. I don't I don't know how to communicate with them. But if you take the time to get to know them. they tell you a lot. They might not always use words. but they have stories. So I think it's really neat to get get to know that part of them that a lot of people don't think they ever can because they're not willing to take the time to figure out how they communicate. We treat them like our family. We recognize that they might get on our nerves. We also recognize we get on theirs. but that also means that the good days we can enjoy together as a family. would you?
What's your sport? What are you doing? Yeah. but what are you in? Are you running? Swimming. swimming. and who's on your team? Red Randy. and who else. bar on the team. somebody else who's on your team. Marshall
and dad. ask daddy. he'll be on Your team for you.
I could be on your team. Never stands up when kids disqualified. no way.
Every time I see bar back at home with his family. I can't help noticing the joy his visits create. So I have to ask. what's wrong with living at home? It is tempting for people to want to keep their kids at home. but the reality is. we'll get old. and our son will have another 40 years to live. so at some point. you're going to have to find a solution. Anyway. you're moving home. and the adult with intellectual disability is isolated. and now once again. the parents are isolated. and you move back to life is about you. and when life is about you. it's not healthy. It is not healthy for anybody to have that much focus on them. As a kid. I felt this enormous sense of obligation. that there was a high potential that I would be taking care of him for the rest of my life. and that since the founding of high spirit. I have felt this enormous relief in that I know I can spend as much time with bar as possible to make me happy and to make him happy. and that we don't need to go beyond that. I think about other siblings who have not had an organization like high spirit to lean on in their lives. and how limiting that has been to their freedom all the time. The troubling part of the very large percentage of people with disabilities is that they are confined to their home. but they're just horribly lonely. We all know what that feels like. There's just no way out of it.
That leaves me with just one more question. where do we go from here? Of the people in this country like bar. a tiny percentage get to live the way bar lives. a tiny percentage receive the supports that he receives. and we'd like to see that change. We would like to help make those changes. The reason he has this life and the reason he gets these supports is because high spirit exists. but high spirit only serves nine residents. High spirit has worked closely with the state to bring their community to its full potential and serve as a model for other communities to help fill this ocean of need. I think Massachusetts will be a leader in this area as other states also try and serve the many. adults who are not being served. as they see how high spirit has served very complicated people for a number of years now. with success. it's not a hard formula. living in community with people who are good at giving care. good at being friends and opening their hearts. It's a life a lot of people would choose if they knew it existed. If you're truly committed and you're actually going to put the time in. it's the most rewarding thing you'll ever do. You get to build a life with somebody. and that's pretty awesome. That's exactly what I was hoping for out of life. and I didn't realize this is the way that it would come.
There are a lot of words that I could use to describe what I've witnessed at these communities. but the word. Word that most often comes to my mind is love. It's baked into everything they do that may not be enough in itself to keep the lights on or tackle what lies ahead. but it gives them a fighting chance.
I'm going to tell you what I think bar is thinking as he goes through the day. I think he's terrified. It's got to be really frustrating to not know what people are saying most of the time. It's got to be really frustrating to know that so many people can do things that I can't do. So I think what we have done at high spirit is to create a place where it moves at the pace of bar when that happens. when I get to live my own life. then all those things like depression and feeling inadequate. and that can fall away because I have the time and the space to live my own life when people understand me.
I'm not terrified. I'm not scared. When I'm able to ask of you something and you can understand what I'm asking. then I don't get angry. And so I'm an entirely different guy in my world of high spirit. because I'm not being told what to do. and I'm not being asked to do things I can't do. and people are listening to me and and I'm happier. I think that's What bar would Say you you
you you look young Billy. Thank you. I'm glad to hear you hearing that you're a Delta grown up old post man. You're an old man. That's you. I'm an old man. but I look young. And that's what matters. Right. right? You. You
Oh. a wonderful film. Tom Fay: talk to you in the crowd Unknown: enough come
Tom Fay: over to the mic a bit. Oh. okay. just tell us what it was like for you to make that film. Oh. Bill Adams: Well. say we. we started making this film probably five years ago. I'm still told this before. So these guys got prepared with me when a friend of mine is a photographer. and he said. You got to go out to this place. How used to do it? Check out. Just go out there with your camera. And I said. I know what's going to happen. I'm going to get sucked into something. and it's going to something. and it's going to eat up a year. What's wrong? It ate up five years when
we started this. we really weren't. you know. we weren't trying to improve the lives of nine families in high school. We really realized we wanted to improve the lives of 1000s. 1000s of families that really aren't lucky enough to have a place like high spirit. Unknown: So when we started screening this. Bill Adams: we didn't throw the film festival route. We decided instead to target audiences where there are people there that that have that need help. and then people who may be in a position to help them. and I think tonight is a perfect example of exactly that. I mean. a night like tonight. to me. is like where the rubber meets the road. Hopefully there'll be a way for for Wayland to sort of team up with high spirit east. which is really sort of. and I've been watching these guys over the last. you know. a couple of weeks and they I'm really impressed. I mean. it's really. it's not easy to put these communities together. I have. they done a great job. So that's my plug for those guys. Tom Fay: Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Robert.
Catherine. Bob. is there anything else you'd like to say about your organization? Organizations. if not. I'd like to turn over to members of our committee and to ask. have them ask you some questions. Proceed. So our committee is in the. what I'll call the due diligence phase. charged by the Select Board to explore best use four acres not far from here. and that includes at least some use for individuals who are adults with disabilities. So our process is about maybe five. six months long at least. and we have a report to mid February. So that's. that's. that's our goal. So that is some background. I invite members of the committee to ask questions to to you all happy to start with you. Bob.
Bill Adams: yeah. Well. first of all. beautiful film. I'm a pediatrician. so I love kids of all kinds. But I also. I bought a butter to the property that is being. you know. considered. And so I think I. one of my jobs is to represent neighbors who live in that space. around that space. And so I guess my question would be. what has it been like for your neighbors in this community? Have there been any challenges? And you know. Where have the really good things come from having a neighborhood like that? Tom Fay: And I would. and if you don't mind Catherine. if you can move your chairs closer to that microphone so that you're willing to be very thankful. Thank you. Bob. Unknown: Bill. Bill Bill. sorry. I think that was a question. You're all good looking.
We had one neighbor who was worried. And that neighbor now is over playing. you know. helping the gardens and taking care of the chickens. Leslie was there for 10 years. Yeah. he has some interesting neighbor react. interaction. We had some neighbors who became fast friends really quickly and always wanted to offer help. especially if they had land that some people owned horses next door. So we end up cleaning up horse manure for them and bring it to our compost. So we've had some really nice shared experiences and relationships with our neighbors and and then. you know. by nature of being a farm. there have been. there was a moment where someone. a neighbor. asked us to please not do something with our pigs in the middle of the road or something. And we said. okay. and it was that was a very brief and fine request for them to have made. So I would say in general. it's our neighbors have been. Have been great. and we try to be good neighbors as well. So. you know. with group homes. people are worried about traffic and neighbors going in and out. but with folks living on the property. I would say there's not as much of that traffic. and we always are trying to carpool. so that hasn't been a problem in our neighborhood. and we try to keep the property clean and beautiful. because our neighbors do the same. and we want our neighborhood to be beautiful. So I know that high spirit East would have those same values. We have had a neighbor step in and help us with fencings and Rose plantings and stuff like that. stuff that our people probably couldn't handle. but that's been really helpful. The other thing is kind of fun is we walk we have live town right there. Great. Barrington is a cute little town. and there's a restaurant there that called Baba Lewis that serves pizza. and. you know. the classic checkered tablecloth place. and bar walks in there. And usually bar walks into restaurant. Everybody runs for cover. He walks into Bob Lewis man bar. He's got. they've got a little table set up in the corner. and it's a. it's. I think. and it's incredibly joyous town and great experience. So that's the other thing about high spirit East is kind of iteration on the theme. Sure. Sorry. high spirit East is kind of an iteration on their theme. meaning all the ways you look at how it's organized. and the householders work and things are be the same. but the community we're looking at. the residents with disabilities. have some physical disabilities. It's hard for them to push a wheelbarrow. things like this. So we're focused on like art and gardening. We want permaculture grounds. We want a greenhouse. We go herbs and vegetables and flowers and walking paths. And you know. if they have small animals. you know. it would have to be the householders want that too. And so it's a just a different mix of people in terms of what we do. And we do want an arts based and. I mean. like all arts. small community center there for music and art and galleries and horticulture and things like that. So just because. the way. the. you know. we're gearing into accessible grounds for people who are either wheelchair users or need to. you know. have ambulation issues and have slightly more spiritual abilities. So it'd be slightly different in that sense. you know. not that if someone of them could push wheelchair. I mean. a wheelbarrow. they they could. you know. and some of them might. So it's just slightly different than that way. I call it farming light. Bill Adams: and that might work in a like a smaller physical space than a genuine spot. Unknown: Yeah. yeah. High spirit Community Farm is only five acres. so it's not that much different than you're just give you sense of need Tom Fay: Stephanie question. Stephanie Lynch: Oh. thank you. Unfortunately. the audio and the movie didn't come through at all. But yeah. so I. if I ask any during question.
Unknown: our audio uh. Tom Fay: DEP. you're muted right now. Stephanie Lynch: That doesn't help either. My son lived at plowshare farm and in New Hampshire. which is a similar kind of a setting. And I was wondering if this is is on a Camp Hill model. like that. Also. I was wondering the population that you're thinking of serving in this high spirits east. are you looking to to help people that are more physically disabled. CP and so forth. Also. what's your status? As far as being able to have DDS funding got people living and working in the same place. HCBS and. and I know all those headaches. and where do you stand with that? And. and it was wonderful to see it really brought back a lot of memories. very similar to the beauty of of plowshare. Thank you. Unknown: I'll start with the first one. And yes. of course we knew Plowshares when we started high spirit. That was one of the. one of the models that we used. So also Camp Hill was. you know. they're meant for. and as simple as can go. was ours. So that's. that's the first answer. And the rest. I think. are all Catherines. So in terms of DDS and being able to do this. they've already. there's precedence that high spirit Community Farm is a pilot program. And state is very much behind this. And also high spirit Community Farm is an agency. One of the first things I did after learning about this from Ginny and Bob. was to say. will you be our agency? You know. when we do this? Because I knew we were kind of dead in the water without that. and they've agreed to do that. So that's huge in terms of that. And what I love about their agency is that solo overhead. most of the funds go to the people they're intended to. and the program the agency director is on site. so not all the time. but you know. comes to site. on site several days a week and or a few days a week. and we're going to be having that similar model. And as a result. we've done a lot of coalition building with Leslie. with DDS. and they're very much in favor of this model. And Tim Cahill. who's very high up. and yeah. he is telling all the area directors to be supportive. So we're working through all of that. but it has been very positive. Does that answer is that what the kind of information Stephanie Lynch: you're looking for? My concern is more with the federal regulations. with the HCBS. that this is a potentially. I hate. you know. isolating situation. and that the funding could be DDS funding could be very. you know. questionable as far in paperwork and so forth. Unknown: Take that one back to me again. Or Leslie. yeah. the DDS is the Department of Disability Services in Massachusetts. and there is a law. the Olmstead law. and that that came out as a result of failures of larger institutions. and that law says. in some ways. that people with disabilities can't live together. So Massachusetts takes a nuanced view of that high spirit had to fight a lot of battles to explain to them how that language was supposed to work. rather than the way it used to be interpreted. And still. this is very interesting time. because the tide has turned. Uh. they're in Massachusetts right now. There are several communities of more than nine people that are that are started. all supported by the DDS melmark being one Cape Cod villages. Island autism. There's. there's just a number of them all happening now and the and DDS is supportive. and funds are finding this to be the least restrictive and less expensive than many of the other models that are out there. So the federal law has been challenged. We have started to
work with the legislator legislate legislators. We've got Senator Barrett. who is sponsoring an enablement bill. We have Senator sear and Representative Marjorie Decker and another and Mary Lou center. the former Secretary of Health and Human Services. is writing the bill. So that's going ongoing. But in fact. with all these new communities that are starting. there's already been an administrative change. So I don't even know how important the bill is anymore. if they just reinterpret the law so that it suits us. I think the battle is over. I think we've won. actually. So that's that's within the last 24 months. Stephanie Lynch: 24 months the together for choice that organization that's doing this federally. I've just read the recent correspondence with the present administration who has said basically that. oh yeah. if you want your kid in a person in a congregate setting. we have. we have institutions for that they don't get it. They just don't get Unknown: it. Do
Tom Fay: you feel your your questions were answered? Stephanie. Unknown: Hi. yes. Thanks. Great. Tom Fay: Jean. Any questions? Unknown: Oh. boy. so many questions. but a lot of them are real. technical and legal and financial. and probably not suitable for this setting. Have you ever considered any kind of combination with a community supported agriculture group. since there's concern about isolation? Being the disabled individuals and CSAs normally draw from the entire community. Yeah. you know. I have to say that. Like. I haven't considered that exactly. but we've talked to I view mass for coming in and helping us with the permaculture grounds. We want people to come in and be a part of the community and collaborate with us. And in our initial conversations with DDS. I'll never forget the lady was the area director. said. you don't want private enclaves. you know. And they dispute it as like they're just in the community all the time. They never get out. And I think that that's not the case. but they are out in the community. There. They have programs. little micro programs. all day long. and that includes collaborating with different groups to come in and help and lead programs and build that enrichment. So yeah. we totally would. especially if we're growing herbs and vegetables. You know. how do we do that together? We need volunteers like that. or partnerships. So yeah. we've got a lot of groups like that around here that I could imagine. yeah. being interested. Yeah. that's the difference. I think. between us and other like a group home. for example. when I was looking. I've been looking for what I would do for my daughter since she was 10. and so we did a lot of touring of many different things. And I remember one of the group home guys saying. because we said we're parents. but we're also starting our own so they they forgot that we were parents. I think so they're very candid. And they said. Oh yeah. we want this coordinate. this entry way off. because we don't want to get the parents coming in too much. It's like. I'm out. And what I love about what I've seen and have been to you can get to go and visit. is that collaborative nature of the community within a community. And I think. Jay. you have a lot of thoughts about that as well. Yeah. I mean. the way that high Spirit works. You this board and right. Jay Wallace. so what I describe it. when I look at the community. is the way that it works. is like a each house is its own micro community. just the way. your house is a micro community for your family. and the three houses make a broader community. And the three houses are so proximate to each other that people can. you know. go from one house to the next. and they're welcome. and they know the 22 people that are living on the property. And so that that sort of micro community gives them enough of a of a sense of community that they want to take what they've learned and they want to invite other people in. and they want to go out into their community. So it makes a supportive community so tight and local that it gives everyone
the words. My brain doesn't work. It inspires them to go outside. And so now they are no longer just living within the walls of the this sort of group home. kind of setting. They're they're living in a in a in a neighborhood. and in the neighborhood is is slower pace than many neighborhoods. because the work that they're doing is at the pace that bar described. or Bob described in the movie. was that. you know. it gave them sense of happiness. And when they're happy. they don't feel threatened. they don't get angry. They can show up at a restaurant and be welcomed by the by the restaurant tour. It makes them a part of the community. and that's what everybody wants. Thank you. John Thomas: John. yeah. thank you very much for coming and bringing this presentation. Phil. it's wonderful. I was just curious. what. what are the source? What? What is the source of the the operating budget for. for the Barrington program. and what you're envisioning out here. Is it self directed dollars? Is it res? I'm talking. yeah. more sort of financial logistics. yeah. not very fun stuff. Unknown: No. no. We've done because we've been submitting to a lot of grants. and we have this budget. but we're looking at shared living. and they. what they've done with high spirit. is it's CBS. three based day services. CBDs. plus shared living. right? Will be sources of funding. They've allowed DDS has allowed high spirit to combine those. because it's integrated work life. So they're integrating those two sources of funding. So there's that. Then. of course. SSI and then we expect to raise. you know. a certain amount of money every year for them. That's so we are high spirit community. excuse me. high spirit East community. We're our own nonprofit. We expect to raise money every year. Yeah. and just since last October. we've raised 150.000 and we've applied for about $200.000 worth of grants. So we expect to have that be a robust thing. especially during the building phase. but live on to support the community. And you know better. your budget around how? Yeah. in simple terms. a house costs about $350.000 a year to operate. and those operating expenses are covered by the state. Those three individuals are socially supported citizens. so 100% of high spirits operating budget comes through state and federal funds. all capital expenses. including acquisitions. cars. you know. professional training. retirement plans. all those things we raise money for. So prepared to do that as well supplement for sure. John Thomas: And have you already identified the potential residents for this program. or obviously. Unknown: like. you know my daughter. yeah. some of the board members. we have about five residents. We know we want to live there. and we want to do the two to three houses. and that leaves spots for Wayland. You know our you know. Wayland potential residents too. and that makes us stronger. We end up in Wayland having. you know. if they're a fit for the community meeting. and we can go into that in a second. but if they're a fit and they live there. it makes us all the stronger because their families are nearby. You know. we live 10 minutes down the road. great. So we can support it till we're dead. And like any parent would. So yeah. absolutely. I love that idea so much. And the line is around because our guys have. like. cerebral palsy or big Down syndrome or just different physical disabilities. they're kind of vulnerable. So if we have somebody with disability that can cause harm to self or others. they're not a fit. or say. somebody who's like. super. super medical we just can't handle it. you know. So there are limits to what we can do. And of course. that person with a disability development would want to kind of be into some of the stuff we're going to do. and we'd want to make it sure it was a fit for them too. But yeah. absolutely. It would anger us. Great. Tom Fay: Yeah. Bill. any questions.
Unknown: and they should volunteer there. by the way. and they could maybe even work there. depending on what they're you know. so. and the Dave program also can take more slots. because we'll have this integrated day program that's customized and amazing and varied. and we'd have some more slots for people coming out. even if we didn't live there. So there's going to be a lot of benefit for people with disabilities. And. yeah. sorry. some Bill Whitney: thought about the site. and you mentioned. you just mentioned. two to three houses. Would you envision that to be happening right away. or would you start with a single and build? And also. would you envision that there's sufficient room on the site for someone else to develop a residence of some description. Unknown: Um. so it being like they broke it up and we only had some of the acreage. Yeah. I think it would be harder to build our right now. for the four acres. we can build what we need to build. for sure. and if they took a bunch of that away. just and how much you know. is it shared? Is it. you know. how. what does that look like. right? So in terms of starting. if we were once we're under contract. we're eligible for a low interest loan to get a mortgage and do that. but also we've raised enough funds to do what we call phase one. and it is in the handout that I that is accompanying this meeting. and being we could do the site development markets on our board. so he's advising us on that. Yeah. so I'm Mark Charney. I'm a chair of planning board in Wellesley. but I was it. you know. met Catherine. my wife. and I joined the board. And so. yeah. in terms of the logistics of the site. as you know. the site is has a some topographical. I would say. challenges and sense of so in terms of subdividing it into two separate parcels. I could see that being challenging for the circulation of the community that we're trying to create here. But in terms of the phasing and how this would sort of roll out. I think that the the idea would be to do the site work. first for the entire community. in terms of just laying out the logistics of. you know. septic and the kind of things that need to be in place. And then phase one. you know. After that site work was done. would be to build first. the first home on the site. And I think we're sort of pretty much thinking more along lines to homes. Bill Whitney: you know. that would that would be the central residents of the folks living there. But. yeah. does that answer your question? It goes so I
Tom Fay: have a question. Can you talk about your staffing levels and the ratio between residents? Unknown: This is what I love the most. So in looking for my daughter. the DDS pretty much said Nothing is safe for her because the staffing is the ratio is so high at high spirit Community Farm. it's two to one. It's going to be two to one for 24/7 care for life. That's what we're building. And so you have two well. lastly. I have experts on either side of me. but we're building in that model so that you have the householders and then the living carers that are there. and then you have people coming in from outside too. sometimes for day performance and things like this. Things like this. So you know. my daughter and all the people we're building this for need to be known like bar needs to be known. And you can only do that if someone's really paying attention to you and seeing you. And when you have that. they thrive. And she has thrived. She's been going cotting school. It's amazing. And so we want to recreate that kind of connection and care so that she's not neglected because she's got cerebral palsy. but she's in there. she's very thoughtful and very active mind. and wants to connect and do things. And so it's essential. essential. Yeah. and in our homes. we have two to three individuals who need care in each home. and then we have four to five caregivers in each home. So it works out to be about two to one. You know. they everyone collaborates and takes turns. Yeah. and it doesn't mean that like she wouldn't do another activity with somebody else. one of those caretaker. maybe another person who's got disabilities. It doesn't mean they'd be separate with their one on one. you know. it's all so collaborative. which is what she's going to thrive in. you know. and beautiful self reach your full potential. So. is there a permanent non non disabled resident. or. I'm sorry. is there a permanent non disabled resident? This is the householders. like Leslie. They live there. It's their home. their life sharing. It's very different than shared living. It's very different than foster which we've researched too. and but it's. it's life sharing. So the householders live there. And so do you know the live in staff. you know. and there. But what I love. we were talking about this day. this morning. about the temporary staff that come in and live for a year from different sources. And that infuses the whole community with energy and difference and newness. fresh eyes. But you have the standard. like householders. the residents that live there. and then. you know. the living cares that are. that are very stable and continuity of care. you know. which is really also matters to me. because Ellie uses a number of modalities. some of the others do too. to communicate. and it's hard. You need to be home and not to have constant turnover. Yeah. I think another great benefit to having the live in caregivers is that we've talked about this a lot. is that the caregivers are residents of your town. So they're not just coming in for eight hours and then leaving. They are they it is their home. So I think. you know. they're contributing to your town. and they're also probably taking better care of the property because their home and better care of the homes. And I know that I did not live in Great Barrington before I started working at high spirit. or I did for a year. but then I started working at high spirit. and that's what really made me feel permanence in Great Barrington. and I really did find a lot of connections there. Yeah. it was the town was a huge part of my life. and I feel like I wove myself into the life of the town as well. And Wellesley. we talk a lot about this issue of housing and workforce housing and and I think an important component to this opportunity really is to deliver on that as well. And it's. it's. it's a real challenge to talk about trying to carve out. say. affordable units and various developments. but this is really a way to create that workforce housing where where people are actually working and living there. and I think it's it's a real benefit for this project. So just wanted to highlight that. But the other thing that really struck me in looking for this is because I know how I've seen how people look at Ellie and how she gets really dehumanized really quickly by some carers too. which is sad. Had to say. But that happens. And what I love about this is that everybody. because the household. there's their home to they're sharing their lives that and there's this greater community. this neighborhood. where you go outside and there's always something happening. and there's an art center. and there's gardens. and there's some herbs to be picked. and some things like this. you know. it Ellie has a role in that. and the way the leadership and the group dynamics are of this. and I'm saying that as an organizational psychologist. is incredible. because caregivers typically are under high. heavy. heavy restriction about what they can do. very low pay. Those restrictions might change document. you know. and they'll still have that compliance with the director from the agency. but they get to live. There's their house. like Leslie saying. it's their project too. There's this mutual collaboration on what they like. this kind of art. you know. that kind of thing. Like Leslie and Derek were farmers. and then they fell in love this. I think we might find some artists or or potters or. you know. or herbalist. you know. who want to come in and teach that to my daughter. you know. and she loves. One of her favorite jobs at cotton was delivering flowers to that she had to pick the teacher and do it over the announcement over the school and stuff like that. I could see us taking that into the greater town that the community needs is. you know. So it's very different than what. And I'm. trust me. I looked and look. since she was 10. she's 22 now. let's just I hadn't seen anything close. So that's why we picked this model to duplicate. except make it more accessible for people with accessibility issues. challenges. Just wanted to be there and be safe and happy and growing. Tom Fay: Bill. any other questions Bill Adams: I know. sound out everyone over there.
Unknown: Karen Bayer and I'm curious about so nine residents. Nine. yeah. nine residents. but you mentioned also about bringing people in from from with disabilities and needs. and who would that be. and how do you choose it. and what age range. and. yeah. It's nice that this five you've already identified five residents. and I'm sure in Wayland. there are probably a significant need. and how would you choose this one over that? Of course. you're going to eliminate what wouldn't work. So two questions. one is bad people who already living Wayland. and families would love to see this for their child or sibling. but also the other end. which I'm I'm really excited to hear about. because I think there's so so much need that the nine I get. yeah. be wonderful to bring in more and what that could look like in this great arts community here. So I'd love to see the arts get involved in native plant community and getting involved. So okay. so one thing I did like Cuba iceberg Community Farm is that it is smaller. so it'd be 21 residents. roughly. you know. nine disabilities. But so in terms of who comes. you know. I've talked to a lot of parents to my journey to create a board. And like you know. they have to understand and grasp the model. and they can't be there every day dictating over the hair exactly what happens with their child. you know. So people will weed themselves out naturally in this way. it was what I've seen. But also. there's an admissions process. and they have to see. is this a fit. you know. for you. and is this a fit for your child and the householders and. you know? And so there's a process. Are they ready? Can did they go through. you know. because as a as a mom myself. I'm going to have to go through the DDS hoops and make sure I get that funding. you know. so those all those kinds of things. So I think it would just be a process of admissions. which these guys have already pioneered. that we would again look to for support and understanding. Yeah. that's how we kind of pick. yeah. be a process. But the other thing is. like. Bob has always. you always say. it's bigger is not better. And I've seen this in terms of. you know. these guys are advocacy on steroids. It's awesome. They've helped me so much. and they're helping others. And we do too. like we want to help other groups get set up. And I've talked to so many so far. you know. like. how did you get your 501? C3. how did you get to be a mass charity? How did you do this? You have compliance calendar. like we're and. you know the know how? So we'll pay it forward too. because the minute you put too many people in one setting. they get lost. especially if they have high support needs. Yeah. right. Right? You can't get that family feel and that's what I loved about this. Ellie's vision from school was. I want to live with friends. you know. And in her journey to adulthood. that can be 20 friends. it's too much for her. She's gonna be overwhelmed. right? Like a lot of people with multiple disabilities. So I say the answer is duplication of this community somewhere else. on another plot of land. you know. And in terms of. we're not going to go super large. except that we did accept more people into the day program. you know. So sure. that's what I'm also curious about. What is the program? Oh. yeah. So I think that's going to be custom designed. It's going to be custom designed by the by the residents. And all the residents. all that they're called co members. all the members of community. And we are envisioning attracting people who want to do horticulture and growing things. and growing some vegetables and an art center. and doing some arts like and some of that's based on what our kids are already interested in doing. You know. our adult children. I should say. you know. so that. but. but I don't I know that's where we're starting. And then. as we attract the householders. they're going to bring all kinds of stuff to it. you know. they're going to have these facilities to be able to do it. and the support of this board. who's like pouring money into it so that they can create the solution. and volunteers the community. Wayland. sounds amazing. Those are the groups that might be allowed. but Right? Tom Fay: You told country a little bit about Unknown: my husband day. I'm just thinking. you know. part of this question is. what. what can you do for the broader community. right. beyond just the nine residents. and I think. like. one of the aspects of the day program is. you know. the opportunity to bring in other people and to open it up to other groups. right? So. like. one of the things that we've done at high spirit east. they started this thing called the clubhouse that runs every two weeks. and in the recreation in a recreation center in Wellesley. and that has been just an amazing learning experience for us to see what types of activities work. And we're seeing. you know. folks show up at that from all over the place. like we've had maybe 10 or 15 different folks come over the last couple of months. And so what we found is that. just by the nature of trying to build this we're attracting folks from that have similar needs to our daughter. and they're having amazing experiences together. where. you know. Ellie's meeting new people. she's meeting new friends. And in this particular situation. they're out in the community. they're meeting new people in the community. So it's actually extending the nervous system out beyond just the core bulb of of the you know. in this case. let's say nine folks. So I think these types of things are. if you build it. they will come kind of thing. and we'll find ways to broaden and provide more opportunities for people to engage their community organically. grows itself. at least that's what I'm hoping for. Mostly that answers the question a Tom Fay: little bit. Stephanie. any other questions from your
Unknown: end? Did you say me? Yes. no. I think I'm all set. Tom Fay: And how about you? I think I'm Unknown: want to see some spreadsheets.
Let's start. yeah. Love to have that conversation. Tom Fay: Yeah. the spreadsheets concern native plants. Or.
Unknown: guess what my hobby is? Yeah. also.
thank you. I just want to say to you. this clubhouse is open. It's free. It's it's every other Saturday. roughly. So if anybody's interested. please contact us. If you have somebody with disabilities 18 or up. they're welcome to join us. So yeah. and I also just want to put a plug. We're doing a tour. an in person tour. at high spirit Community Farm in early October. So you can contact us if you're interested. There's going to be one on October 3 and one on October 4. And you can kind of come see a developed program in action. Tom Fay: I One last question. which you touched upon a moment ago. How do you see a community like yours enhancing the larger community Wayland. in particular. the ability of volunteers to work in the Unknown: community more. yeah. we're really open to volunteers in terms of. if you can envision a greenhouse. and you can envision an art center and a gallery. and kids who might have physical challenges wanting to do art. you know. and coming in. And helping them. If any of you have been no camp arrowhead. they do that really well. They train the high school. Do the high school. there's a little training. And then they're one on one. aid with the person going to campus. all ages. And so we have that model in our mind. too. And then. of course. like. you gotta harvest this or the vegetables. or we need to do this project. Do you have any volunteers coming in? That's. you know. classic volunteerism. But you know. we've done so pretty well so far with our volunteers. and we want to keep that up. So I see enormous opportunities for people from Wayland to come and contribute in some way and be a part of it. you know. Bill Adams: Well. I want to thank you all for coming. That's one more question. Sorry. It's kind of my job to represent the neighbors. And so one concern is three of the neighbors have swimming pools. and two of them have said they would be worried that folks would challenge judgment might it might be dangerous for them. And so what would you say to neighbors who were worried about that type of safety issue. like a pool that is available.
Unknown: and there's going to be quite a bit of supervision of the people with the disabilities. you know. So like. if my daughter is like in her electric wheelchair and she makes it that far. no one's whether we fail. I failed utterably. So that's what that would remind him. or like. I just. I would not be worried about that. Yeah. one bit. yeah. I think it is very important to yeah and communicate with neighbors. Yeah. We'd have to be vigilant. Yeah. yeah. We have neighbors with bulls and great Barry tendons in urban issue. Also got lakes. We've got everything that a regular neighborhood would have. Yeah. that's the whole that's that's where we're trying to fit it. But the other thing I like about this is. like. say. Ellie's in one house and all the care staff. if you will. They all know her stuff. It's not just like the ones in that house. The care staff in the other houses are all trained in Elliot. if you will. They understand her. They know her. That's a tremendous like. what's that called when you when you double down on. on your plans. your security plans. right? It's tremendous amount of security. But yes. thank you. It built in redundancy so that. like. you know. just because if I'm a carrier there and I'm just looking after Ellie. but I see Alexa going over there and getting into trouble. I'm going to know. you know. so that's the other thing. I love this model. So I Tom Fay: want to thank you all for coming this evening and educating our committee on your great work. and look forward to seeing communication as in the In the months ahead. Unknown: Excellent. Thank you for having me.
Yes. yeah. yeah. good
care of so we're going to continue on Agenda consideration of Europe.
A motion.
Any proposed changes? All
those in favor. John. approving the minutes? Are
you having a vote? I can't hear I'm hearing a big jumble. I keep not hearing figure three now.
are
hearing somebody in conversation. I'm not hearing okay. we're going to wait a minute. and people are leaving the. Logan. I will not at all. I'm sorry.
but it is helpful. My son is home with right medical issue now.
Bill Adams: Pediatrician. DEP. you can Unknown: hear us right Bill Adams: now. good stuff like that. Unknown: anywhere from a dozen. Stephanie Lynch: I can hear you. but I can also hear everybody else who's talking. Mr. Unknown: Chairman. we're leaving Thank you.
That better. Tom Fay: That's better. Alright. we're going to. we're going to repeat what we said a moment ago. Couldn't be heard. That is. we're going to consider the minutes of August 6. 2025 minutes in our packet. I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes. So move. We have a second. second. Thank you. Jim. discussion on the on the proposed minutes. I mean now those in favor of approving the minutes in our packet? Bill Whitney: Phil. yes. Phil. Unknown: yes. John. yes. Stephanie. yes. And Tom. yes. Tom Fay: That's five zero ones. The next thing on the agenda is Item five. that's discussions and possible vote regarding issuing one or more requests for information from persons in our organization involved in shared living opportunities for adults with disabilities. When we met last bill Whitney agreed to put something together. and Bill. can you tell us a packet? Tell us what you're thinking was and get an input Bill Whitney: from anybody the it's it's certainly a draft for discussion. There's no pride of authorship here. My kind of approach on this was to think of this as a request for information. as we discussed at our prior meeting. to cast a wide net. see who's out there. see what kind of different models there might be and it would. I think. be really useful for the committee to get that kind of feedback. I think that would help inform the committee and hopefully developing a consensus about the type of facility that we would recommend to the Select Board possibly issue a follow up request for proposals. which would be more specific. ask for spreadsheets. maybe draft designs. things of that nature. and to Paint more kind of fulsome description of what perhaps a more limited number of people might have in mind. though I'm not sure if we can actually confine it to a pre selected list. I did John had graciously agreed to work with me on that. I sent him a copy of the draft his comments crossed in the mail with my having gotten the draft to Tom for him to issue as part of the packet. So. so John. I think. probably has some specific comments. but that was. the jazz or my thinking in putting this draft together. Tom Fay: John. your thoughts? John Thomas: Yeah. so. I mean. I think Bill did a really nice job laying the groundwork. I just had some suggested additions really sort of focused more on the disability aspect of it. Tom Fay: I don't know if you want me to. yeah. you can talk. John Thomas: Go through it. So does everybody have bills? Coffee I have so that got sent out in the past. in fact. So in Bill's overview. I simply added the town is. excuse me. the town is particularly interested in proposals that align with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Is philosophy of Person centered planning. which emphasizes creating housing and support services tailored to the individual needs and choices of residents. The goal is to provide a variety of residential options that foster independence. community integration and a high quality of life. So that was basically my suggested insert to Bill's opening overview. Current. Graph. Do you think that we're Tom Fay: narrowing our focus by mentioning the Commonwealth. Massachusetts? The reason I say that is what we've learned during our meetings. as far as how critical they are from a funding perspective. but also here that their philosophy is changing. but necessarily hasn't changed. John Thomas: And well. I specify one aspect in my comment for that very reason. which is. I specify the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is philosophy of Person centered planning. which I think is more on the more progressive end of the spectrum. as these folks were indicating in their narrative. Okay. so that's really. I mean. I'm using selective vision. okay? When I reference the Commonwealth philosophy. okay. that way. Alright. great. Tom Fay: Others. other sections.
John Thomas: So moving on to our requested information. So again. I thought Bill did a really nice job of talking about some of the legal and. you know. the site design. zoning characteristics that we would want to take a look at. So I just sort of jumped on the bandwagon and
Unknown: see added. I'm not going to read do. What do you want me to read each of my additions? Or maybe Tom Fay: on page two. yeah. but John Thomas: and starting on page two and into the that was Tom Fay: the word identification. yeah. okay. you can talk to leave it up here. whether you want to read it or just yeah. whatever you want to do. Bill Adams: Okay. let me just take a quick look at
John Thomas: so I was suggesting that we would ask anyone submitting information to ID the type of residents that this particular development would serve. and include an outreach and needs assessment.
Tom Fay: And given this is a request for information. are we going to discourage organizations from responding. because they have to do more than ever they want to right? John Thomas: Right. yeah. I mean. if it's. if it's just the quest for information. that might be asking a little bit too much. Bill Whitney: So. yeah. happy to Bill Adams: but I mean. I think if General or say it would be welcome or without. I don't know. people could provide it if they had it right. but they shouldn't feel obliged to. yeah. Tom Fay: they were welcome. yeah. John Thomas: I mean. I think identifying the type of residents the development would serve. I mean. yeah. at a very top level. yeah. I mean. we need it at that and great. So that was. I mean. basically these are all the following comments were basically bullets beneath my that. that sort of opening statement. Again. some of these to your to your point. Tom. they may be a little bit onerous for somebody just submitting proposal for information. responding to a proposal for information. So yeah. I mean a proposal for conducting a demographic analysis of the population of adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities in the town of Wayland and abutting communities who may be seeking housing. Maybe it's enough to say. How would you go about conducting outreach and seeking to better. better understand and identify those folks that you're seeking to serve in the town of Wayland and abutting communities. maybe something like that. as opposed to being highly specific. So the next. let's see the next. Well. it was a description of how the development developer service providers will engage with local community members. including families of individuals with disabilities. and local disability advocacy groups to inform the final design and service model. I think that's a reasonable the next bullet was an explanation of how the proposed housing model will be flexible and adaptable to meet the changing needs of residents over time. consistent with a person centered planning approach. again. trying to seek some information as to how they would. Would serve the population that they're intending to serve with a with a nod towards understanding that needs change. preferences change. How do you go about responding to that? Do you go about responding to potential turnover? I mean. that's kind of what I was getting at there.
Tom Fay: And you have a further section down below on addressing the needs. John Thomas: Yeah. I mean. again. sort of piggybacking on to what I was talking about in terms of outreach and how to best identify you know who you might serve in this community and abutting communities. So I said addressing the needs of transitioning youth the town seeks to create a housing model that addresses the needs of its public school population of children with. I said. intellectual disabilities. And I think maybe we ought to make a decision at some point as to whether or not that's our target group. or if we are wanting to be open to people with disabilities. I mean. there is a distinction between people with intellectual and physical disabilities. I threw intellectual disabilities in there just because I felt like we needed a placeholder. almost. Bill Adams: But anyway. again. Tom Fay: I'm a little bit concerned about asking these organizations to provide a plan for outreach or describe a proposed facility against that takes a lot of hours Bill Adams: to feel like an RFP. John Thomas: yeah. I right. but maybe put. put addressing the needs of transitioning use our youth. ie kids that are turning 22 into that previous request for information. How would you do that? Or. you know. let us know how that would be. something that would be. we would be interested in that. Unknown: Stephanie. any comments on the draft from your end.
I couldn't hear your question. Tom Fay: Any comments on your part regarding Bill Whitney's draft on the RFI? Stephanie Lynch: Oh. it's excellent. It's yeah. excellent. I think we need to have some thought of to how broad a range of services we want this whole thing to provide go ranging from full. you know. life to a place to live with some with some physical supports. And how you know how much of an extended you know it. You know how elaborate it's going to be. I guess. considering a lot of the people might actually be in programs already in the daytime and just need a place in Wayland to live and be supported and have a social life. Tom Fay: Yeah. if we keep it broad. we invite. I think. more organizations to educate us. because I'm not sure. as a committee. where we're at the point where we can necessarily make those decisions. recommendations.
Bill Adams: Bill. any thoughts I was I was going to ask a question about to me. this felt like a Pitch. not necessarily an educational session. So yeah. being clear about Yeah. well. what the goal of these meetings is. and I guess for all everyone who wants to talk with us probably has an interest in being part of the town. so it's inevitable that's going to happen. but helping us know. like how to finesse or interpret that. I think would be helpful to me. No. I Tom Fay: think some organizations are more gung ho than others. and some are just individuals in the field. like we've heard the prior meetings with darkness. And we'll have a stake here in Wayland. but certainly have a stake in the industry. and they are willing to come and just chat with us about their job. So it's a varied. a varied number of varied backgrounds. And I'm Bill Adams: I assume we're clear when we invite people that we're in the education phase. there'll be a follow up RFP phase. it's inevitable that they're going to pitch it. because they're so passionate about they do. and Tom Fay: they understand that they knew that we're Bill Adams: due diligence phase. perfect. And I think the more. the better. And I agree we I think we still have more to learn. Because I think two months ago.
Unknown: yeah. in terms of what we asked people to show us. what I like to see is detailed model of what they've done. because it's one thing. You ask people about their intentions. they say. Well. we learned from doing this. but in the future. we're going to do well. they may never figure out how to do it. They may not be able to get the resources to do it. I'd rather see a case study. Of their most recent project that they want to show that they think is a success with. you know. break out of what makes this work. Who do you know how to serve? Is it just the physically disabled people? Is it the intellectually disabled people? What do you know how to do. and show us a model. a successful model. so that we know you know how to do. because it's happening in real time. I've. I've worked with so many groups who had aspirations. and they would tell. you know. it's like. if you haven't done it. I'm not really hearing about it yet. Tell your board. Bill Whitney: There is. there is a bullet gene where we ask them to provide a summary of the proponents. the proposals relevant development experience with build projects comparable to those site civic reference to projects of a similar scale. To question that proposed for the site. including design. affordability and means and sources of financing. is requested. Yeah. we could. yeah. Unknown: that's and hopefully the law will move this whole Olmstead Act. Disabled people can't live together. So reactionary of horrified people who saw terrible suffering and wrote this regulation in a very awkward way that's not serving them well. I bet anything.
So a group like we heard tonight this. this group is. you know. they're a case study for the state. They're. you know. like a beta project. as opposed to. like. mainstay. which has a way it does things. you know. and it's done it over and over and over. It's got a lot of projects. So it'd be a real different recommendation for us to save the town. go with this model that our state is like figuring out if they're going to support it or not. versus guys who are just plugging these out. That's going to be interesting choice for us. as it Bill Adams: were. but their angle. that their approach is really innovative. is. Oh. I love what they do early on in the curve. Unknown: Yeah. yeah. I mean. like talking about how people live on this property. I'm a daughter of a Saskatchewan Farm Girl. Okay. so they had this immense piece of land. Usually it's a mile in each dimension at least. and there'd be multiple houses on the land. and there'd be parents and the sons and his family and the daughter and her family and Aunt Minnie. who never married. and they'd all have their houses. and they all had a life together. you know? And it just to me that just sounds like ordinary living. because that's the model I grew up with when we went to the farm. It's funny. this scene is something so strange now with our life. model of suburban living. Tom Fay: Yes. your thoughts at this point on the drone? Bill Whitney: Well. this conversation is for better or worse. caused me to think of a couple of things. One is. is it appropriate? And or do we wish to express the desire for there being that there is an opportunity in the developed Park project for Wayland residents. or adult children. Wayland residents. I don't know if you know that's that's a 40 B issue or whatever. Tom Fay: Well. I John correct me. but depending on the program you have. state doesn't like that. They like they like programs to be open to everybody in the state. right? But that doesn't mean programs that would permit that. For example. if you're a private developer. ending on your funding how residents of how the living expenses are funded. I'm not sure that's in the equation. right? Bill Whitney: It might be interesting to sort of toss that out there in an RFI. just like. Oh. what are your thoughts? Yeah. you know. it doesn't I think buying the town to anything. I Bill Adams: think. I don't think that John Thomas: the state in the guise of say. DDS is necessarily Unknown: holding John Thomas: very fast to that of this point of Tom. I mean. that's just my opinion. And one of the things that they also have to intend with is when kids are turning 22 And we are talking about. or maybe the way to couch this. put it that way. is to say that we we would like to be offering local kids that are turning 22 or kids that are turning 22 in an athletic community. the natural inclination is for those people to prefer to stay closer to home than to move out to lemon Sturt or down to the Cape where the only program is or the funded slot is open to them. So this is a way to sort of honor that wish that the individual or the family is making. So. I mean. there are different ways to sell this in a way I think. yeah. so that would be bill. I think the way. if we want to play around with it. that would be the way I think we would want to do it. Bill Adams: And I think good for the residents to stay local. but for the parents to stay engaged. like they all want to stay engaged. to be in the neighborhood. I don't know if there's a way to think of it beyond Wayland. but still in a relatively small scales. Maybe there'll be other group homes in neighboring towns. and they could take Wayland kids if we didn't have space. or. you know. if you could have a small regional strategy. something like that. Might be more flexible over time. But I like that idea as a person. Wayland and who. and you know. the people who. for various reasons. gave their land to Wayland. it might be nice to have the town benefit from that somehow. Unknown: So one of the things I'd like to hear from these groups is. and they brought up these children are all going to outlive the parents. The parents are the board members. The parents are the fundraisers. you know. and they're all going to pass. And then what's the plan to keep that all happening in this kind of organization. or even just the more typical model. I you know. I think that probably happens everywhere. How do they keep going once the natural advocate group is gone? I don't know how they do it. If there's any way to get them to tell us something about that that would be helpful. Bill Whitney: Maybe they also do intend to die. Yeah. many times. The other thing that hurts me. maybe this goes in a cover letter or something. is to jeans point. we don't know what we want. and so we're asking them to tell us what. what they know. what they do. what they're good at. And you know. you alluded to it in your opening remarks by saying. on the due diligence phase. should we be explicit about that so that people come in telling us what they do rather than what they think? We want them to say. yeah. Tom Fay: that's. that's the suggestion. Maybe even include the charge of our committee within the cup. Unknown: yeah. right. John Thomas: And into some of that due diligence also include doing some outreach to determine what the need. Unknown: the local need. would be. And Tom Fay: to that point we do have a woman coming in from high school who can shed some light on them. That's not the end of that's not the last word on that. but that is Doc Bill Whitney: future means. okay. great. Question is. Tom. is this made available? Tom Fay: So I've been in touch with Michael McCall and Tom manager. and he's hired a part time person to assist him with tasks license. and she has extensive experience. and she'll she'll assist into that question. I will say that Brian bossier did provide me with a list of organizations that are involved in serving adults with disabilities. and this is it. I reached out to every one of them. and many of them have are interested in coming before us chat. So we're scheduled through October. So this will Unknown: be helpful. I think they need Tom Fay: better. even more information. Bill Whitney: And when do you think we would issue this? Ideally. I was Tom Fay: going to propose that that if the board is if the committee is comfortable. we vote to have you can finalize it and then. and then work with me and the town manager's office to Bill Whitney: Michigan. so I'd bring a revised. back draft back to the committee. Tom Fay: No. we authorize you to edit it based on comments and. Then we. and then we. I think for the most part. it's in good shape. I think we heard comments and to remember from committee members that permit you to advise it Bill Whitney: and for someone else to grab it. Bill Adams: Well. it can make you want to be welcome to send it. but I trust you. Tom Fay: Keep it comfortable with that plan? Yes. so I'll entertain a motion then that Bill Whitney revised the draft and RFI draft finalize it and submit and Tom in his office for distribute second. Do I hear it about sorry. yes. yes. Do I hear a second discussion? Unknown: Yes. yes. thank you so all the favorite Stephanie. yes. Tom Fay: yeah. yes. Unknown: Can you hear me? Yes. yeah. yes. Tom Fay: Tom. six. seven. given that. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Bill Adams: So moved second. second. right. no. Unknown: all those in favor. Stephanie. to adjourn. Yes. yes. yes. Tom Fay: Jean. yes. John. yes. Phil. yes. Unknown: thank you. Stephanie. good to see you. Bye.
like to review the agenda for the senior director wall of meeting the fire room. People can watch this meeting remotely with length. and it will be available on WayCAM as well as it is being recorded. we invite people to give public comment. if they like public comment. Two Minutes joining us tonight in person are John Thomas Dean. Milgram and Bill Adams. I'm Tom Fay online. we have Stephanie Lynch and anyone else online. Robbie besides Stephanie. others that join us. An eye out for them and bring them over. Yeah. I'd appreciate that possibly Bill Whitney will join us. and possibly Mike Steve will join us. So after we listen to any public comment. we'll welcome persons from the high spirit East community. as well as high spirit Community Farm. high spirit east and related organizations to talk about their work. and this will include the presentation of a film. which would be approximately 45 minutes in length. After that. we'll have discussion on their organization and work they do invite questions from members of the committee. Once that portion of the meeting is over. we'll consider minutes from our last meeting. August 6. After that. we'll discuss proposed Request for Information persons organizations involved in shared living opportunities. and then after that. we will likely adjourn. So at this time. like to invite anyone who would like to give public comment to step forward. Seeing none anyone online. Like to give public comment. I see no one online. great. So at this time. I'd like to invite Catherine Stanley to step forward and tell us about your organization. organization and related organizations. and thank you for coming this evening and how we'd like to proceed in your perspective this evening. Sure. thanks for Unknown: having us. Really appreciate it. I'm the president. co founder of the board for high spirit East community. We're connected to Bob and Jailyn Swain and Jai Wallace. who are here tonight. and because they have the first high spirit Community Farm in green Barrington and I found out about their model through a friend. and they've been mentoring me and sharing that model. and we're building a similar model. but in eastern mass and Metro West area and hopefully Wayland. So that's why we're here tonight to share a movie about. you know. their experience. and why it's a little different than other models. Mama. a mom of a special needs child who's 22 at history and Paul. so we're building an accessible community in the high spirit model. Tom Fay: Yeah. well. I invite you to proceed. I think you want to start on the movie. Is that right? Unknown: I just want to also say that Angela and Mark Charney are here. and David Stanley and Ada. and they're all part of high spirit East as well. Bob swan is well. I'm happy to introduce the movie Tom. that's all right. yeah. thank you for having us just a good spot to stand super spot. And I have written this out so I don't miss anybody's name. and I'll make it brief. I'll be within my two minutes. Thank you for giving us this time. We are honored to. Here and to share our story with you. I am one of the people who founded high spirit Community Farm. a small community for adults with intellectual disabilities and autism. At high spirit people find meaningful week work. supportive friends and a welcoming community. In a few minutes. we'll be showing a film where you will learn much more about high spirit Community Farm and why we need. needed created here. My wife. Ginny and I are parents of bar Swain. who's featured in the film you'll see Tom Ginny is here with me this evening. We're also joined by others that have been vital to high spirits work. Jay Wallace. a board member for more than 10 years. has given countless hours to making high spirit thrive. Leslie Eshelman. long time house parent at high spirit plus he now serves as the executive director of high spirit advisory advising families who are looking for solutions for their adult children with disabilities. Plus his husband. Derek. is on the board at high spirit community farm. We are here tonight to support the vision of Catherine and the high spirit East team. including David. Stanley. Angela Christoffel and Mark Charney. who are here with us tonight together. they are following a model that of high spirit to create high spirit east. a place where adults with significant disabilities can live in the least restrictive environment possible. High spirit east will support them as they spend their lives with meaningful work. friendship and a part of a community where they truly belong. Wayland. we believe is the ideal home for high spirit. East your town is known for its spirit of community. where neighbors know each other and come together for events and activities. We want that for our people. We want that for everyone. Finally. I'd like to thank Billy Parker. who made this film. Billy is here tonight. Before the pandemic. He asked if he could come film at high spirit. We agreed. and the result is what you'll see tonight. He calls it a documentary. I call it a love story. Billy is here with us. and I hope this film gives you a true sense of what high spirit is really trying to achieve. We'll all be available for questions after but enjoy the movie you
Tom I mess with the Shays. By all means. ladies and gentlemen. we're
here today to recognize the LTA achievement. these athletes Coming in second place. Mike Whitney in first place. I
i Every year. hundreds of 1000s of American adults are left behind. penalized. in fact. the very moment they reach adulthood. Bar Swain could have shared the same fate. if not for the persistence of his parents and others. This is his story toward a better path and brighter future.
My son. bar. was born with a severe intellectual disability. He had club feet. He has scoliosis. He had very low muscle tone. and our initial diagnosis was that he would never walk or talk.
There's no genetic anomaly that we can find. and there's no other significant health diagnosis. He doesn't have a diagnosis. At first. it was really frustrating for me. I wanted to be able to know so I could go to the library and look it up if he just had Down syndrome. I would know what their trajectory was.
Those first few years. you go to every specialist to figure out what surgery or what what pill can we take to fix this? This person has not been built to specifications. and we know how to fix that. He was getting therapy all the time. and nothing seemed to really be working. and they finally just had a counseling session with me and said. you know. what do you want us to do? And I just burst into tears and was screaming at them and saying. I want you to fix him. And. And they didn't really know what to say. because they can't fix him. and they were just dealing with my sort of stages of grief. Bob was much better on that than I was. He's much better on this. Is the way it is. I would say I always thought we were leading to something. and I would say Jenny always thought we were surviving. I think it was just I wasn't able to sort of be joyful in life and connect with people. sort of spending much of the week going in and out of hospitals and therapies. I think the guilt is the probably the piece that breaks up families the fastest. Like. what did I do to cause this disability in my child? Or. what did my wife do to cause this disability in my child coming out the front door? You Swayne. alias
Cowboy Bob. Hey there. Cowboy bar spent most of his early years at home. and he was soon joined by his sister Molly. And while he had a rich home life. his parents decided that for him to develop. he needed to be among peers. and he went to Franciscan Children's Hospital. It was very much a hospital setting. Didn't feel normal at all. He would be surrounded by three or four therapists. He started to think that women aged 26 were like there to serve Him. So we went back to Cambridge and said we'd like to have him in with his typical peers. And Cambridge said no. and then we went to court. We had a settlement. and they agreed to take him in public school. And we're very. very lucky to find a principal in Cambridge who welcomed us wholeheartedly.
In my town. in my elementary school. students with disabilities were never seen. They were in the basement. Those kids came to school after we did. They left school before we got dismissed. nobody ever talked about them. even though a lot of questions like. Who are those kids? We never see them. We know they're there. We hear them. I can remember thinking to myself. Wow. those kids must have something terrible that if you have contact with them. you'll get in many ways. we were taught to be fearful. Some of our understanding about people with disabilities is out of ignorance and not out of knowing them as people who have feelings. who want to belong and contribute in some way when we presume that they can't. They never do because no one bothers to disrupt that expectation and those kids saying. What have I done wrong if we can't have kids together when they're five years old. when can we because that is when the developmental differences are at the at the smallest that they'll ever be. And I think that's the story of Bar. Bar participated in every one of our programs. playing with blocks. painting. being in the dramatic Playhouse. things that were shared with typical peers who didn't know what Barr's IEP said he was one of them. I think those kids weren't scared of bar and are probably not scared of that difference ever since he loved his classmates who were sort of naturally care giving us. Most kids are the kids were great. Come on. bar. let's go down. We're gonna have lunch now. and we're sort of mother hens. When he got to the classroom. he did not walk. He drooled quite a bit. and kids don't really like to be around somebody who's drooling all the time. so he stopped drooling. The same thing happened with the walking. So he's able to crawl and make very slow progress. and everybody goes out to the playground. but then he wanted to get up. and within six months. he was walking. So bar had already exceeded by a lot the low expectation that he could walk. let alone the academic and social gains the kids. Man. no problem. Give me the kids any day. It was the parents. because their experience was actually not this. Their experience was similar to mine. Was important for all of our kids in terms of their view of the world. not assuming that people who can't run as fast as you can can speak as well as you can. that there's. Still capable. It was really the significant transformation of a school community. We were known well beyond Cambridge for what we stood for. We helped people uncover their biases and build new ideas for what it meant to be different. I learned a lot from bar
taking a picture.
JT as a
family of four. and then when Henry was born a family of five. it was very bar focused in wonderful ways. Being bars brother absolutely shows up in many of the ways that I see myself in the world and the ways that I interact with other people. It's something I'm really grateful for. that I have this inherent belief and understanding that relationships are built around empathy. I think I learned about difference young in life in ways that others take a lifetime to know or maybe never know. and my best friends as a kid were family and my neighbors and my neighborhood crew was so core to who I was and my school friends were school friends. I mean. those things were totally separate. I have thought many times that that sort of privacy wall comes from an early age of not sure how to share this piece. So I remember people finding out way later that she had a brother with a disability. and thinking that they would all know and they didn't. But wow. there was so much love. And I saw that expressed a bar. I felt that in every way we have really made all of our decisions based on how does that tighten our tight little family community. How does it tighten our broader friend group and how do we expose ourselves to the rest of the world? As time went on. school became much more of a struggle for bar inclusion works for a lot of people. I think the whole way through. I think for people with challenges such as bars. other kids start to have inhibitions. The care giving kids are less caregiving. and the curriculum is really disruptive by having someone who has no idea what math is or what geography is. Eventually it was clear that wasn't working anymore. and we went to look at schools for children with special needs. Tom. he ended up in a collaborative which was supposed to still be inclusion. but it really ended up being sort of a resource room down at the end of the hall. It was a little tiny classroom with concrete walls. and they wouldn't even let the kids in that classroom go to lunch at the same time as other kids were having lunch. Bob and I were just thinking. this is the best we can do for this kid. how incredibly lonely and boring
the Swain family was about to undergo a momentous change. Bob and Jenny were facing one of the biggest decisions of their lives. sending bar to the Camp Hill School in Pennsylvania. He was the biggest part of our tight family. and he was what we all did. So to have him go away to school was absolutely not in a million years. Would that be something that would be okay? And Jenny dragged me down there to look at it. We both loved it. That wasn't the problem. It was just. could we really send a little 13 year old kid. let alone a developmentally disabled 13 year old kid to boarding school in Pennsylvania? Just. just crazy. I just remember dropping bar off. and we were asked to leave pretty quickly. and we weren't come back for a month. We just got in the car and Bob was sobbing. I drove all the way back. and he just cried for six hours. It was just awful. But there was definitely more of me saying. Okay. now we have two other kids at home. and this is their moment. Well. they've been asked to be quiet and independent for 11 years for my daughter. but it's time for us to be with them.
Hi. perfect. Matthew. very nice. I'm very
impressed. Only like two months since you've been here. Yeah. The Camp Hill School is part of a network of Waldorf schools that originated in the Moors near Aberdeen. Scotland. It was there that an Austrian physician Carl Koenig. influenced by Rudolf Steiner. Started a school and then a series of villages for children and adults with intellectual disabilities. He was part of a group of Jewish intellectuals and educators who had been driven out of Vienna by the Nazis. It really started through this group of people being unprepared. and Carl Koenig and his wife Tiller having to teach people. and not just how to teach people how to teach people how to how to work with children with disabilities. but these were intellectuals. So they didn't shine their shoes. they couldn't do their laundry. they couldn't cook. They certainly never farmed. They were torn out of this cosmopolitan intellectual. artistic center of Europe and thrown into this hillside with nothing around but sheep and Bracken in every direction you looked in every sense of the word. They were refugees. They were torn out of their culture. They were torn out of their language. They were strangers in a strange land. The founding circle of co workers realized they had a lot in common with the children for whom they were caring. who were refugees in a different sense from a society that didn't have space for people with special needs. Children with developmental disabilities may have no access to schooling if they were not living in their families. kind of hidden away. They were institutionalized in places that best took reasonable care of them. If there was no notion of development. institutional life was the best that anyone could hope for this approach of actually living and working with children with disabilities. The idea was that that disabilities could be remediated and that there could be growth. You would apply arts and education. I mean. almost as nutrition. to sort of feed a child's soul. We weren't just looking at the physical body or a broken mechanism. and you're really looking at the energy. the life force. that is in the human being.
You what soon came to be known as the Camp Hill experiment flourished. and after World War Two. it had become more of a movement. There are now over 120 Camp Hill communities worldwide. and 15 in North America. including the school where Barr found a home when this location opened in the 1960s it was a stark contrast to most of the institutions for people with disabilities that were painfully similar to the grim Victorian institutions from the previous century. The people who started those hospitals certainly wanted to create a comfortable life for the people who lived in them. but they also wanted to build a larger society in which people with disabilities would play a smaller and smaller role. People were being segregated at the lowest possible cost to the larger society. The people who created those hospitals were the same people who invented IQ tests classifying people you wound up in one of those hospitals if you fell out at the low end of the classification scheme. and you were there in large part to keep you from reproducing. as well as to keep you safe and fed. The classic institutional paradigm this group of people is being paid to take care of that group of people was fully in force. Those are the only two groups of people present in these hospitals that is always dehumanizing no matter how charitable the intentions of the caregivers. They will not see the other person as fully human if they regard them exclusively as an object of care.
The typical landing places for people with disabilities through most of the 20th century continued to be these large institutions. many of them rife with neglect and abuse. The disability rights activism in the 1970s turned a light on these abuses. forcing most of them to shut down. But the timing was unfortunate. so just at the moment when society is saying our whole approach to people with disabilities has been wrong. and we need to create something radically different. You have powerful policy makers saying we need to reduce government expenditures no matter what. and large mental hospitals were shut down without a clear idea about what's going to replace them. Sadly. nothing has really replaced them. and almost all of these patients simply went home. And that has been the fate of the vast majority of adults with intellectual disabilities ever since because
we are on a circle too much forward you cover the people there on the other
side who is willing to do like here? Yeah. so you go there. Okay. just a sec been
doing this for some. Many years.
The Camp Hill School today has 70 elementary and high school students and is a well established destination for children with disabilities from around the world. What we are looking for is to nourish the inner soul of the child. not only how to function. but how to be and to grow as a human being. And some of this substance. if it's brought in the right way. awakens the children to the world in a very different way. The loveliest thing that I remember about bar is his warmth and his appreciation for people and his longing to communicate. I recall his need to really learn how to work. He was not somebody who naturally went towards work. He would rather be social. I think bar kind of likes to be the wheelbarrow guy. That's his reputation. He had to get there. though. Let me put it that way. It's the first point where we can see bar can learn to work a wheelbarrow and work in a garden and be a member of a working crew and get joy and pride and satisfaction out of doing so bar could contribute. and that was really the first time in his life that he'd ever been a contributing member of the community. and that was Huge for him.
All right. All right. Show us how you want to stand. Audrey. how do you want to stand? Yes. you stand in front of the chair. How do you want to stand now. look at Michael and show him that you're a 12th grader. Yeah.
Look at me. Chin down. down here. Too much. I
Fay. as with other high school seniors around the country. graduation is an exciting rite of passage for the students at the Camp Hill School. since college is not an option for most of them. and alternative landing places are hard to find. Camp Hill started a transition program down the road called Beaver farm. Mama's always telling me stop driving sugar trap people's ears off. then they want to step away and talk to someone else. Oh. wow. You could call it sort of like a college for 18 to 21 year olds with special needs. But that really focused on life skills. programming. social programming. vocational programming. we could really scaffold those experiences. So did you pick some of these flowers? Yeah. six. Did you pick? Help pick some of these flowers? Colin with us? Yes. yeah. we harvest them in the spring. in the fall. Never.
We have gardens that grow green stuffs that we eat. We have commercial cut flower gardens. We have field crops for our livestock. We breed and raise beef and pork. We have a herd of sheep. We have chickens. We have hens for eggs. The students are involved in all of that. The production of food and the consumption of beautiful food together in social settings is also a large part of what we do. we have very independent people who are academically independent. physically independent. very verbal. And we have people who need physical support to take them from A to B and we mix them together. It's not such that high functioning ones are doing special things and the rest doing something else. No. we want to. We want to work together as a team.
Bar spent four happy years at Beaver farm and graduated when he turned 22 but turning 22 isn't the same for everyone. For too many of the young people who graduate from Beaver farm. Life goes on. but the music finally stops. All across the country. education. vocational training. therapies and other supports that schools have been providing since childhood come to an end. These students have spent years in a community of enrichment and meaningful work. and then they commit the crime of turning 22 if you graduate from our program. and you're gone for four months and you've gained 50 pounds. and you don't have a program. I think it's a neglect. I think it's a neglect they've been looking forward to so much of coming to that age of graduation and moving on to the world. life should be full of excitement. And then they leave the school system when they graduate from the farm. And for many of them. there's nothing out there. They've needed all that support. They've had therapies. and they've had IEPs and all that. And suddenly. now. you know. Need any support. you'll see people that have had severe behavior issues when they first came to the school. They may have been self injurious and biting themselves and biting themselves. biting themselves so that they're scarred. and banging their heads against the walls. They may have been aggressive towards. you know. other students or staff members. You see these people. they've been able to sort of work with those things and become really socially integrated. really caring people. and then they leave. and they're with unskilled staff that are paid very poorly. that rotate very quickly in group home settings where there's not very much for them to do. where they're unlikely to have. you know. any kind of meaningful employment. And the behaviors come back. The families go through this continual mill of trying to find placement after placement and the group homes torn apart. I mean people that you could happily live with and share family life with. and they're kicking holes in the drywall and smashing the TV set. Many of the students that I first worked with years ago are now in their 40s. and I've outlived a significant number of them. inactivity. bad food choices. heavy medication. diabetes. obesity. all of it unnecessary. The kind of rich community life that is multi layered and really supportive is not something that was supposed to provide for adults. because it's regarded as being institutional. The notion that you would have people with intellectual disabilities living anywhere near one another is anathema to kind of modern policy and modern academia. They're not allowed to live together. work together. They're going to receive government funding. and some people need a lot of help and scaffolding. And how do you make sure that you get the regs out of the way so that you can build community. Community is based on deep. loving relationships with other human beings. So we're gonna care about you across a broad span of time. You become part of their story. and they become part of yours. That's something that we're good at. and it's something that is relatively easy to do. that legislation is stopping it from happening. and that's kind of a tragedy. You kind
of a tragedy back at home. Bob and Jenny knew this all too well. and their research led them to one dead end after another. the metrics of turning 22 are really terrible. In Massachusetts alone. there were a backlog of over 170.000 people who were living at home because there were no options available to them. And it's daunting for all parents. Every parent meeting after about age 15 people see they're 22 on the horizon. and they're so afraid for their child. you can advocate for some services. but they're very hard to come by. Could you take something like the transition program at Beaver farm. which is funded by local education authorities at school still. and could that be a prototype for adult living? Because that would be the real thing. I mean. could you do this with adults? The short answer to that question is yes. While bar was still at Beaver farm. Bob and Jenny teamed up with other parents and spent years laying the groundwork for what has become high spirit Community Farm. a work life pilot program. It doesn't have the acreage or production of beaver farm. but it does have its own cast of characters. There's honey and butter. cookie and monster. and of course. people. where do you think you're gonna go to a playground? I get
Okay. so this one was from Bill Adams: when you were in Florida. So what should we say Unknown: to dia? It says Tom Fay: Happy Birthday to you. I love mom. and you can put will or Willie. Which one. which one? Unknown: You tell me. well. we only will on this one. Okay. I just did it really. May I asked about questions. information. names. yep. yep. Your oldest child's name is Harry. He was born on January 15 to 1999 1995 it's 95 Sunday. the day before Martin Luther King. doing younger brother Jack. He was born on August 8. what year 1999 23 is coming up this month. August 8. I think it's 24 maybe it's 20 You're right. It's 23 congratulations. Always. Never forget. I will never forget. I like you too. I like you too. Instead of interrupting. none without interruption. No. there was no interruption. Thank you. Billy. I wish I had better answers. Thanks a lot. Thank you. I'm amazing. I thought you were going to go to school beaver farm in April. I. Easy. right? Oh. you're just going to zoos. right? You graduated. Hill. yeah. you're just going to zoos. right? You graduated. Hold on. Do you know where you're going to go? In 2024 day. Tim Park. zoo. book. video. zoo in 2024 What state are those zoos in? Are they in New York? Are they. I don't know what. Chicago? Oh. they're in Chicago. Starting to go to Illinois. 10 years ago. Derek and Leslie were a pair of aspiring farmers who had no idea how much their lives were about to change. So we really definitely thought that this was just going to be a stepping stone for us. Working with people with disabilities was an interesting bonus. but not something we were interested in long term. Our long term goal was actually to get a huge farm and live by ourselves with our dog. Even when we took the position. it was definitely with the goal of just getting that farm up and running. I wasn't even excited about the nature of the work. and then Jimmy brought bar to meet us. Derek and I were both shocked and overwhelmed. we couldn't understand what bar was saying. He clearly needed a lot more physical help than what I had anticipated. He loves physical contact. which. if you're new to that. that can be very overwhelming. I think our jaws kind of dropped. to be honest. and we just thought. Well. here goes. And I mean. it took a matter of days before Derek and I realized that we would like to keep the job more than just temporarily. What about rock? Yeah. all
right. we can watch it on YouTube or something. How many leaves do you see? 123.
and four? Can you get four leaves and put them in the bowl? One. ready? This one. maybe not that one. How about this one.
In the last 10 years. high spirit has expanded to three houses. multiple householders. staff. members and volunteers. And the one word that keeps popping up is community. That can mean different things to different people. It's just neighborhood living just lots of people pouring energy into the day together. You don't have to be a weirdo to be able to enjoy living here. What high spirit is doing is intentionally creating a community of difference. There is no end goal besides community. Well. the idea of living in community was actually kind of terrifying. but once we started living at high spirit. it was just impossible not to love them and not to see how this lifestyle not only benefited them. but it also benefited us and how we needed community. Can you tell me about the tools that you have there and your tool belt and my chip and temperature. I got my this and my so your level. yeah. got any other tools? No hammer either. Oh. we gotta get you a hammer. What happened to your hammer? What do you got there money? What do you use? What do you use that for? You like to spend some money. What do you like to use your dollars for? So does so funny? Normally. all afternoon. you keep talking all afternoon. Now everybody's getting a little shy. No. I'm not. No. I'm fine. Now here's your coming from working in group. home experiences or day programs. We were always taught that we are not friends. We are friendly professionals. The staff there. they're there for eight hours. then they check out. They're done. You're there to get them their shower. get them their meds. make sure they eat. That's it. You have employees. and you have people who receive their services. They never really sat right with me. That's the nature of their job. They can't help it. but it makes it harder to really work on that constant growth. But this is really nice. because we have that time. and there's not that constant shift change. that constant turnover. So we can be more focused on the whole person. We're more worried about living a life with these residents. that it's more important to build memories together. They're very communicative. A lot of people look at them and say. Oh. well. I can't talk with them. I don't I don't know how to communicate with them. But if you take the time to get to know them. they tell you a lot. They might not always use words. but they have stories. So I think it's really neat to get get to know that part of them that a lot of people don't think they ever can because they're not willing to take the time to figure out how they communicate. We treat them like our family. We recognize that they might get on our nerves. We also recognize we get on theirs. but that also means that the good days we can enjoy together as a family. would you?
What's your sport? What are you doing? Yeah. but what are you in? Are you running? Swimming. swimming. and who's on your team? Red Randy. and who else. bar on the team. somebody else who's on your team. Marshall
and dad. ask daddy. he'll be on Your team for you.
I could be on your team. Never stands up when kids disqualified. no way.
Every time I see bar back at home with his family. I can't help noticing the joy his visits create. So I have to ask. what's wrong with living at home? It is tempting for people to want to keep their kids at home. but the reality is. we'll get old. and our son will have another 40 years to live. so at some point. you're going to have to find a solution. Anyway. you're moving home. and the adult with intellectual disability is isolated. and now once again. the parents are isolated. and you move back to life is about you. and when life is about you. it's not healthy. It is not healthy for anybody to have that much focus on them. As a kid. I felt this enormous sense of obligation. that there was a high potential that I would be taking care of him for the rest of my life. and that since the founding of high spirit. I have felt this enormous relief in that I know I can spend as much time with bar as possible to make me happy and to make him happy. and that we don't need to go beyond that. I think about other siblings who have not had an organization like high spirit to lean on in their lives. and how limiting that has been to their freedom all the time. The troubling part of the very large percentage of people with disabilities is that they are confined to their home. but they're just horribly lonely. We all know what that feels like. There's just no way out of it.
That leaves me with just one more question. where do we go from here? Of the people in this country like bar. a tiny percentage get to live the way bar lives. a tiny percentage receive the supports that he receives. and we'd like to see that change. We would like to help make those changes. The reason he has this life and the reason he gets these supports is because high spirit exists. but high spirit only serves nine residents. High spirit has worked closely with the state to bring their community to its full potential and serve as a model for other communities to help fill this ocean of need. I think Massachusetts will be a leader in this area as other states also try and serve the many. adults who are not being served. as they see how high spirit has served very complicated people for a number of years now. with success. it's not a hard formula. living in community with people who are good at giving care. good at being friends and opening their hearts. It's a life a lot of people would choose if they knew it existed. If you're truly committed and you're actually going to put the time in. it's the most rewarding thing you'll ever do. You get to build a life with somebody. and that's pretty awesome. That's exactly what I was hoping for out of life. and I didn't realize this is the way that it would come.
There are a lot of words that I could use to describe what I've witnessed at these communities. but the word. Word that most often comes to my mind is love. It's baked into everything they do that may not be enough in itself to keep the lights on or tackle what lies ahead. but it gives them a fighting chance.
I'm going to tell you what I think bar is thinking as he goes through the day. I think he's terrified. It's got to be really frustrating to not know what people are saying most of the time. It's got to be really frustrating to know that so many people can do things that I can't do. So I think what we have done at high spirit is to create a place where it moves at the pace of bar when that happens. when I get to live my own life. then all those things like depression and feeling inadequate. and that can fall away because I have the time and the space to live my own life when people understand me.
I'm not terrified. I'm not scared. When I'm able to ask of you something and you can understand what I'm asking. then I don't get angry. And so I'm an entirely different guy in my world of high spirit. because I'm not being told what to do. and I'm not being asked to do things I can't do. and people are listening to me and and I'm happier. I think that's What bar would Say you you
you you look young Billy. Thank you. I'm glad to hear you hearing that you're a Delta grown up old post man. You're an old man. That's you. I'm an old man. but I look young. And that's what matters. Right. right? You. You
Oh. a wonderful film. Tom Fay: talk to you in the crowd Unknown: enough come
Tom Fay: over to the mic a bit. Oh. okay. just tell us what it was like for you to make that film. Oh. Bill Adams: Well. say we. we started making this film probably five years ago. I'm still told this before. So these guys got prepared with me when a friend of mine is a photographer. and he said. You got to go out to this place. How used to do it? Check out. Just go out there with your camera. And I said. I know what's going to happen. I'm going to get sucked into something. and it's going to something. and it's going to eat up a year. What's wrong? It ate up five years when
we started this. we really weren't. you know. we weren't trying to improve the lives of nine families in high school. We really realized we wanted to improve the lives of 1000s. 1000s of families that really aren't lucky enough to have a place like high spirit. Unknown: So when we started screening this. Bill Adams: we didn't throw the film festival route. We decided instead to target audiences where there are people there that that have that need help. and then people who may be in a position to help them. and I think tonight is a perfect example of exactly that. I mean. a night like tonight. to me. is like where the rubber meets the road. Hopefully there'll be a way for for Wayland to sort of team up with high spirit east. which is really sort of. and I've been watching these guys over the last. you know. a couple of weeks and they I'm really impressed. I mean. it's really. it's not easy to put these communities together. I have. they done a great job. So that's my plug for those guys. Tom Fay: Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Robert.
Catherine. Bob. is there anything else you'd like to say about your organization? Organizations. if not. I'd like to turn over to members of our committee and to ask. have them ask you some questions. Proceed. So our committee is in the. what I'll call the due diligence phase. charged by the Select Board to explore best use four acres not far from here. and that includes at least some use for individuals who are adults with disabilities. So our process is about maybe five. six months long at least. and we have a report to mid February. So that's. that's. that's our goal. So that is some background. I invite members of the committee to ask questions to to you all happy to start with you. Bob.
Bill Adams: yeah. Well. first of all. beautiful film. I'm a pediatrician. so I love kids of all kinds. But I also. I bought a butter to the property that is being. you know. considered. And so I think I. one of my jobs is to represent neighbors who live in that space. around that space. And so I guess my question would be. what has it been like for your neighbors in this community? Have there been any challenges? And you know. Where have the really good things come from having a neighborhood like that? Tom Fay: And I would. and if you don't mind Catherine. if you can move your chairs closer to that microphone so that you're willing to be very thankful. Thank you. Bob. Unknown: Bill. Bill Bill. sorry. I think that was a question. You're all good looking.
We had one neighbor who was worried. And that neighbor now is over playing. you know. helping the gardens and taking care of the chickens. Leslie was there for 10 years. Yeah. he has some interesting neighbor react. interaction. We had some neighbors who became fast friends really quickly and always wanted to offer help. especially if they had land that some people owned horses next door. So we end up cleaning up horse manure for them and bring it to our compost. So we've had some really nice shared experiences and relationships with our neighbors and and then. you know. by nature of being a farm. there have been. there was a moment where someone. a neighbor. asked us to please not do something with our pigs in the middle of the road or something. And we said. okay. and it was that was a very brief and fine request for them to have made. So I would say in general. it's our neighbors have been. Have been great. and we try to be good neighbors as well. So. you know. with group homes. people are worried about traffic and neighbors going in and out. but with folks living on the property. I would say there's not as much of that traffic. and we always are trying to carpool. so that hasn't been a problem in our neighborhood. and we try to keep the property clean and beautiful. because our neighbors do the same. and we want our neighborhood to be beautiful. So I know that high spirit East would have those same values. We have had a neighbor step in and help us with fencings and Rose plantings and stuff like that. stuff that our people probably couldn't handle. but that's been really helpful. The other thing is kind of fun is we walk we have live town right there. Great. Barrington is a cute little town. and there's a restaurant there that called Baba Lewis that serves pizza. and. you know. the classic checkered tablecloth place. and bar walks in there. And usually bar walks into restaurant. Everybody runs for cover. He walks into Bob Lewis man bar. He's got. they've got a little table set up in the corner. and it's a. it's. I think. and it's incredibly joyous town and great experience. So that's the other thing about high spirit East is kind of iteration on the theme. Sure. Sorry. high spirit East is kind of an iteration on their theme. meaning all the ways you look at how it's organized. and the householders work and things are be the same. but the community we're looking at. the residents with disabilities. have some physical disabilities. It's hard for them to push a wheelbarrow. things like this. So we're focused on like art and gardening. We want permaculture grounds. We want a greenhouse. We go herbs and vegetables and flowers and walking paths. And you know. if they have small animals. you know. it would have to be the householders want that too. And so it's a just a different mix of people in terms of what we do. And we do want an arts based and. I mean. like all arts. small community center there for music and art and galleries and horticulture and things like that. So just because. the way. the. you know. we're gearing into accessible grounds for people who are either wheelchair users or need to. you know. have ambulation issues and have slightly more spiritual abilities. So it'd be slightly different in that sense. you know. not that if someone of them could push wheelchair. I mean. a wheelbarrow. they they could. you know. and some of them might. So it's just slightly different than that way. I call it farming light. Bill Adams: and that might work in a like a smaller physical space than a genuine spot. Unknown: Yeah. yeah. High spirit Community Farm is only five acres. so it's not that much different than you're just give you sense of need Tom Fay: Stephanie question. Stephanie Lynch: Oh. thank you. Unfortunately. the audio and the movie didn't come through at all. But yeah. so I. if I ask any during question.
Unknown: our audio uh. Tom Fay: DEP. you're muted right now. Stephanie Lynch: That doesn't help either. My son lived at plowshare farm and in New Hampshire. which is a similar kind of a setting. And I was wondering if this is is on a Camp Hill model. like that. Also. I was wondering the population that you're thinking of serving in this high spirits east. are you looking to to help people that are more physically disabled. CP and so forth. Also. what's your status? As far as being able to have DDS funding got people living and working in the same place. HCBS and. and I know all those headaches. and where do you stand with that? And. and it was wonderful to see it really brought back a lot of memories. very similar to the beauty of of plowshare. Thank you. Unknown: I'll start with the first one. And yes. of course we knew Plowshares when we started high spirit. That was one of the. one of the models that we used. So also Camp Hill was. you know. they're meant for. and as simple as can go. was ours. So that's. that's the first answer. And the rest. I think. are all Catherines. So in terms of DDS and being able to do this. they've already. there's precedence that high spirit Community Farm is a pilot program. And state is very much behind this. And also high spirit Community Farm is an agency. One of the first things I did after learning about this from Ginny and Bob. was to say. will you be our agency? You know. when we do this? Because I knew we were kind of dead in the water without that. and they've agreed to do that. So that's huge in terms of that. And what I love about their agency is that solo overhead. most of the funds go to the people they're intended to. and the program the agency director is on site. so not all the time. but you know. comes to site. on site several days a week and or a few days a week. and we're going to be having that similar model. And as a result. we've done a lot of coalition building with Leslie. with DDS. and they're very much in favor of this model. And Tim Cahill. who's very high up. and yeah. he is telling all the area directors to be supportive. So we're working through all of that. but it has been very positive. Does that answer is that what the kind of information Stephanie Lynch: you're looking for? My concern is more with the federal regulations. with the HCBS. that this is a potentially. I hate. you know. isolating situation. and that the funding could be DDS funding could be very. you know. questionable as far in paperwork and so forth. Unknown: Take that one back to me again. Or Leslie. yeah. the DDS is the Department of Disability Services in Massachusetts. and there is a law. the Olmstead law. and that that came out as a result of failures of larger institutions. and that law says. in some ways. that people with disabilities can't live together. So Massachusetts takes a nuanced view of that high spirit had to fight a lot of battles to explain to them how that language was supposed to work. rather than the way it used to be interpreted. And still. this is very interesting time. because the tide has turned. Uh. they're in Massachusetts right now. There are several communities of more than nine people that are that are started. all supported by the DDS melmark being one Cape Cod villages. Island autism. There's. there's just a number of them all happening now and the and DDS is supportive. and funds are finding this to be the least restrictive and less expensive than many of the other models that are out there. So the federal law has been challenged. We have started to
work with the legislator legislate legislators. We've got Senator Barrett. who is sponsoring an enablement bill. We have Senator sear and Representative Marjorie Decker and another and Mary Lou center. the former Secretary of Health and Human Services. is writing the bill. So that's going ongoing. But in fact. with all these new communities that are starting. there's already been an administrative change. So I don't even know how important the bill is anymore. if they just reinterpret the law so that it suits us. I think the battle is over. I think we've won. actually. So that's that's within the last 24 months. Stephanie Lynch: 24 months the together for choice that organization that's doing this federally. I've just read the recent correspondence with the present administration who has said basically that. oh yeah. if you want your kid in a person in a congregate setting. we have. we have institutions for that they don't get it. They just don't get Unknown: it. Do
Tom Fay: you feel your your questions were answered? Stephanie. Unknown: Hi. yes. Thanks. Great. Tom Fay: Jean. Any questions? Unknown: Oh. boy. so many questions. but a lot of them are real. technical and legal and financial. and probably not suitable for this setting. Have you ever considered any kind of combination with a community supported agriculture group. since there's concern about isolation? Being the disabled individuals and CSAs normally draw from the entire community. Yeah. you know. I have to say that. Like. I haven't considered that exactly. but we've talked to I view mass for coming in and helping us with the permaculture grounds. We want people to come in and be a part of the community and collaborate with us. And in our initial conversations with DDS. I'll never forget the lady was the area director. said. you don't want private enclaves. you know. And they dispute it as like they're just in the community all the time. They never get out. And I think that that's not the case. but they are out in the community. There. They have programs. little micro programs. all day long. and that includes collaborating with different groups to come in and help and lead programs and build that enrichment. So yeah. we totally would. especially if we're growing herbs and vegetables. You know. how do we do that together? We need volunteers like that. or partnerships. So yeah. we've got a lot of groups like that around here that I could imagine. yeah. being interested. Yeah. that's the difference. I think. between us and other like a group home. for example. when I was looking. I've been looking for what I would do for my daughter since she was 10. and so we did a lot of touring of many different things. And I remember one of the group home guys saying. because we said we're parents. but we're also starting our own so they they forgot that we were parents. I think so they're very candid. And they said. Oh yeah. we want this coordinate. this entry way off. because we don't want to get the parents coming in too much. It's like. I'm out. And what I love about what I've seen and have been to you can get to go and visit. is that collaborative nature of the community within a community. And I think. Jay. you have a lot of thoughts about that as well. Yeah. I mean. the way that high Spirit works. You this board and right. Jay Wallace. so what I describe it. when I look at the community. is the way that it works. is like a each house is its own micro community. just the way. your house is a micro community for your family. and the three houses make a broader community. And the three houses are so proximate to each other that people can. you know. go from one house to the next. and they're welcome. and they know the 22 people that are living on the property. And so that that sort of micro community gives them enough of a of a sense of community that they want to take what they've learned and they want to invite other people in. and they want to go out into their community. So it makes a supportive community so tight and local that it gives everyone
the words. My brain doesn't work. It inspires them to go outside. And so now they are no longer just living within the walls of the this sort of group home. kind of setting. They're they're living in a in a in a neighborhood. and in the neighborhood is is slower pace than many neighborhoods. because the work that they're doing is at the pace that bar described. or Bob described in the movie. was that. you know. it gave them sense of happiness. And when they're happy. they don't feel threatened. they don't get angry. They can show up at a restaurant and be welcomed by the by the restaurant tour. It makes them a part of the community. and that's what everybody wants. Thank you. John Thomas: John. yeah. thank you very much for coming and bringing this presentation. Phil. it's wonderful. I was just curious. what. what are the source? What? What is the source of the the operating budget for. for the Barrington program. and what you're envisioning out here. Is it self directed dollars? Is it res? I'm talking. yeah. more sort of financial logistics. yeah. not very fun stuff. Unknown: No. no. We've done because we've been submitting to a lot of grants. and we have this budget. but we're looking at shared living. and they. what they've done with high spirit. is it's CBS. three based day services. CBDs. plus shared living. right? Will be sources of funding. They've allowed DDS has allowed high spirit to combine those. because it's integrated work life. So they're integrating those two sources of funding. So there's that. Then. of course. SSI and then we expect to raise. you know. a certain amount of money every year for them. That's so we are high spirit community. excuse me. high spirit East community. We're our own nonprofit. We expect to raise money every year. Yeah. and just since last October. we've raised 150.000 and we've applied for about $200.000 worth of grants. So we expect to have that be a robust thing. especially during the building phase. but live on to support the community. And you know better. your budget around how? Yeah. in simple terms. a house costs about $350.000 a year to operate. and those operating expenses are covered by the state. Those three individuals are socially supported citizens. so 100% of high spirits operating budget comes through state and federal funds. all capital expenses. including acquisitions. cars. you know. professional training. retirement plans. all those things we raise money for. So prepared to do that as well supplement for sure. John Thomas: And have you already identified the potential residents for this program. or obviously. Unknown: like. you know my daughter. yeah. some of the board members. we have about five residents. We know we want to live there. and we want to do the two to three houses. and that leaves spots for Wayland. You know our you know. Wayland potential residents too. and that makes us stronger. We end up in Wayland having. you know. if they're a fit for the community meeting. and we can go into that in a second. but if they're a fit and they live there. it makes us all the stronger because their families are nearby. You know. we live 10 minutes down the road. great. So we can support it till we're dead. And like any parent would. So yeah. absolutely. I love that idea so much. And the line is around because our guys have. like. cerebral palsy or big Down syndrome or just different physical disabilities. they're kind of vulnerable. So if we have somebody with disability that can cause harm to self or others. they're not a fit. or say. somebody who's like. super. super medical we just can't handle it. you know. So there are limits to what we can do. And of course. that person with a disability development would want to kind of be into some of the stuff we're going to do. and we'd want to make it sure it was a fit for them too. But yeah. absolutely. It would anger us. Great. Tom Fay: Yeah. Bill. any questions.
Unknown: and they should volunteer there. by the way. and they could maybe even work there. depending on what they're you know. so. and the Dave program also can take more slots. because we'll have this integrated day program that's customized and amazing and varied. and we'd have some more slots for people coming out. even if we didn't live there. So there's going to be a lot of benefit for people with disabilities. And. yeah. sorry. some Bill Whitney: thought about the site. and you mentioned. you just mentioned. two to three houses. Would you envision that to be happening right away. or would you start with a single and build? And also. would you envision that there's sufficient room on the site for someone else to develop a residence of some description. Unknown: Um. so it being like they broke it up and we only had some of the acreage. Yeah. I think it would be harder to build our right now. for the four acres. we can build what we need to build. for sure. and if they took a bunch of that away. just and how much you know. is it shared? Is it. you know. how. what does that look like. right? So in terms of starting. if we were once we're under contract. we're eligible for a low interest loan to get a mortgage and do that. but also we've raised enough funds to do what we call phase one. and it is in the handout that I that is accompanying this meeting. and being we could do the site development markets on our board. so he's advising us on that. Yeah. so I'm Mark Charney. I'm a chair of planning board in Wellesley. but I was it. you know. met Catherine. my wife. and I joined the board. And so. yeah. in terms of the logistics of the site. as you know. the site is has a some topographical. I would say. challenges and sense of so in terms of subdividing it into two separate parcels. I could see that being challenging for the circulation of the community that we're trying to create here. But in terms of the phasing and how this would sort of roll out. I think that the the idea would be to do the site work. first for the entire community. in terms of just laying out the logistics of. you know. septic and the kind of things that need to be in place. And then phase one. you know. After that site work was done. would be to build first. the first home on the site. And I think we're sort of pretty much thinking more along lines to homes. Bill Whitney: you know. that would that would be the central residents of the folks living there. But. yeah. does that answer your question? It goes so I
Tom Fay: have a question. Can you talk about your staffing levels and the ratio between residents? Unknown: This is what I love the most. So in looking for my daughter. the DDS pretty much said Nothing is safe for her because the staffing is the ratio is so high at high spirit Community Farm. it's two to one. It's going to be two to one for 24/7 care for life. That's what we're building. And so you have two well. lastly. I have experts on either side of me. but we're building in that model so that you have the householders and then the living carers that are there. and then you have people coming in from outside too. sometimes for day performance and things like this. Things like this. So you know. my daughter and all the people we're building this for need to be known like bar needs to be known. And you can only do that if someone's really paying attention to you and seeing you. And when you have that. they thrive. And she has thrived. She's been going cotting school. It's amazing. And so we want to recreate that kind of connection and care so that she's not neglected because she's got cerebral palsy. but she's in there. she's very thoughtful and very active mind. and wants to connect and do things. And so it's essential. essential. Yeah. and in our homes. we have two to three individuals who need care in each home. and then we have four to five caregivers in each home. So it works out to be about two to one. You know. they everyone collaborates and takes turns. Yeah. and it doesn't mean that like she wouldn't do another activity with somebody else. one of those caretaker. maybe another person who's got disabilities. It doesn't mean they'd be separate with their one on one. you know. it's all so collaborative. which is what she's going to thrive in. you know. and beautiful self reach your full potential. So. is there a permanent non non disabled resident. or. I'm sorry. is there a permanent non disabled resident? This is the householders. like Leslie. They live there. It's their home. their life sharing. It's very different than shared living. It's very different than foster which we've researched too. and but it's. it's life sharing. So the householders live there. And so do you know the live in staff. you know. and there. But what I love. we were talking about this day. this morning. about the temporary staff that come in and live for a year from different sources. And that infuses the whole community with energy and difference and newness. fresh eyes. But you have the standard. like householders. the residents that live there. and then. you know. the living cares that are. that are very stable and continuity of care. you know. which is really also matters to me. because Ellie uses a number of modalities. some of the others do too. to communicate. and it's hard. You need to be home and not to have constant turnover. Yeah. I think another great benefit to having the live in caregivers is that we've talked about this a lot. is that the caregivers are residents of your town. So they're not just coming in for eight hours and then leaving. They are they it is their home. So I think. you know. they're contributing to your town. and they're also probably taking better care of the property because their home and better care of the homes. And I know that I did not live in Great Barrington before I started working at high spirit. or I did for a year. but then I started working at high spirit. and that's what really made me feel permanence in Great Barrington. and I really did find a lot of connections there. Yeah. it was the town was a huge part of my life. and I feel like I wove myself into the life of the town as well. And Wellesley. we talk a lot about this issue of housing and workforce housing and and I think an important component to this opportunity really is to deliver on that as well. And it's. it's. it's a real challenge to talk about trying to carve out. say. affordable units and various developments. but this is really a way to create that workforce housing where where people are actually working and living there. and I think it's it's a real benefit for this project. So just wanted to highlight that. But the other thing that really struck me in looking for this is because I know how I've seen how people look at Ellie and how she gets really dehumanized really quickly by some carers too. which is sad. Had to say. But that happens. And what I love about this is that everybody. because the household. there's their home to they're sharing their lives that and there's this greater community. this neighborhood. where you go outside and there's always something happening. and there's an art center. and there's gardens. and there's some herbs to be picked. and some things like this. you know. it Ellie has a role in that. and the way the leadership and the group dynamics are of this. and I'm saying that as an organizational psychologist. is incredible. because caregivers typically are under high. heavy. heavy restriction about what they can do. very low pay. Those restrictions might change document. you know. and they'll still have that compliance with the director from the agency. but they get to live. There's their house. like Leslie saying. it's their project too. There's this mutual collaboration on what they like. this kind of art. you know. that kind of thing. Like Leslie and Derek were farmers. and then they fell in love this. I think we might find some artists or or potters or. you know. or herbalist. you know. who want to come in and teach that to my daughter. you know. and she loves. One of her favorite jobs at cotton was delivering flowers to that she had to pick the teacher and do it over the announcement over the school and stuff like that. I could see us taking that into the greater town that the community needs is. you know. So it's very different than what. And I'm. trust me. I looked and look. since she was 10. she's 22 now. let's just I hadn't seen anything close. So that's why we picked this model to duplicate. except make it more accessible for people with accessibility issues. challenges. Just wanted to be there and be safe and happy and growing. Tom Fay: Bill. any other questions Bill Adams: I know. sound out everyone over there.
Unknown: Karen Bayer and I'm curious about so nine residents. Nine. yeah. nine residents. but you mentioned also about bringing people in from from with disabilities and needs. and who would that be. and how do you choose it. and what age range. and. yeah. It's nice that this five you've already identified five residents. and I'm sure in Wayland. there are probably a significant need. and how would you choose this one over that? Of course. you're going to eliminate what wouldn't work. So two questions. one is bad people who already living Wayland. and families would love to see this for their child or sibling. but also the other end. which I'm I'm really excited to hear about. because I think there's so so much need that the nine I get. yeah. be wonderful to bring in more and what that could look like in this great arts community here. So I'd love to see the arts get involved in native plant community and getting involved. So okay. so one thing I did like Cuba iceberg Community Farm is that it is smaller. so it'd be 21 residents. roughly. you know. nine disabilities. But so in terms of who comes. you know. I've talked to a lot of parents to my journey to create a board. And like you know. they have to understand and grasp the model. and they can't be there every day dictating over the hair exactly what happens with their child. you know. So people will weed themselves out naturally in this way. it was what I've seen. But also. there's an admissions process. and they have to see. is this a fit. you know. for you. and is this a fit for your child and the householders and. you know? And so there's a process. Are they ready? Can did they go through. you know. because as a as a mom myself. I'm going to have to go through the DDS hoops and make sure I get that funding. you know. so those all those kinds of things. So I think it would just be a process of admissions. which these guys have already pioneered. that we would again look to for support and understanding. Yeah. that's how we kind of pick. yeah. be a process. But the other thing is. like. Bob has always. you always say. it's bigger is not better. And I've seen this in terms of. you know. these guys are advocacy on steroids. It's awesome. They've helped me so much. and they're helping others. And we do too. like we want to help other groups get set up. And I've talked to so many so far. you know. like. how did you get your 501? C3. how did you get to be a mass charity? How did you do this? You have compliance calendar. like we're and. you know the know how? So we'll pay it forward too. because the minute you put too many people in one setting. they get lost. especially if they have high support needs. Yeah. right. Right? You can't get that family feel and that's what I loved about this. Ellie's vision from school was. I want to live with friends. you know. And in her journey to adulthood. that can be 20 friends. it's too much for her. She's gonna be overwhelmed. right? Like a lot of people with multiple disabilities. So I say the answer is duplication of this community somewhere else. on another plot of land. you know. And in terms of. we're not going to go super large. except that we did accept more people into the day program. you know. So sure. that's what I'm also curious about. What is the program? Oh. yeah. So I think that's going to be custom designed. It's going to be custom designed by the by the residents. And all the residents. all that they're called co members. all the members of community. And we are envisioning attracting people who want to do horticulture and growing things. and growing some vegetables and an art center. and doing some arts like and some of that's based on what our kids are already interested in doing. You know. our adult children. I should say. you know. so that. but. but I don't I know that's where we're starting. And then. as we attract the householders. they're going to bring all kinds of stuff to it. you know. they're going to have these facilities to be able to do it. and the support of this board. who's like pouring money into it so that they can create the solution. and volunteers the community. Wayland. sounds amazing. Those are the groups that might be allowed. but Right? Tom Fay: You told country a little bit about Unknown: my husband day. I'm just thinking. you know. part of this question is. what. what can you do for the broader community. right. beyond just the nine residents. and I think. like. one of the aspects of the day program is. you know. the opportunity to bring in other people and to open it up to other groups. right? So. like. one of the things that we've done at high spirit east. they started this thing called the clubhouse that runs every two weeks. and in the recreation in a recreation center in Wellesley. and that has been just an amazing learning experience for us to see what types of activities work. And we're seeing. you know. folks show up at that from all over the place. like we've had maybe 10 or 15 different folks come over the last couple of months. And so what we found is that. just by the nature of trying to build this we're attracting folks from that have similar needs to our daughter. and they're having amazing experiences together. where. you know. Ellie's meeting new people. she's meeting new friends. And in this particular situation. they're out in the community. they're meeting new people in the community. So it's actually extending the nervous system out beyond just the core bulb of of the you know. in this case. let's say nine folks. So I think these types of things are. if you build it. they will come kind of thing. and we'll find ways to broaden and provide more opportunities for people to engage their community organically. grows itself. at least that's what I'm hoping for. Mostly that answers the question a Tom Fay: little bit. Stephanie. any other questions from your
Unknown: end? Did you say me? Yes. no. I think I'm all set. Tom Fay: And how about you? I think I'm Unknown: want to see some spreadsheets.
Let's start. yeah. Love to have that conversation. Tom Fay: Yeah. the spreadsheets concern native plants. Or.
Unknown: guess what my hobby is? Yeah. also.
thank you. I just want to say to you. this clubhouse is open. It's free. It's it's every other Saturday. roughly. So if anybody's interested. please contact us. If you have somebody with disabilities 18 or up. they're welcome to join us. So yeah. and I also just want to put a plug. We're doing a tour. an in person tour. at high spirit Community Farm in early October. So you can contact us if you're interested. There's going to be one on October 3 and one on October 4. And you can kind of come see a developed program in action. Tom Fay: I One last question. which you touched upon a moment ago. How do you see a community like yours enhancing the larger community Wayland. in particular. the ability of volunteers to work in the Unknown: community more. yeah. we're really open to volunteers in terms of. if you can envision a greenhouse. and you can envision an art center and a gallery. and kids who might have physical challenges wanting to do art. you know. and coming in. And helping them. If any of you have been no camp arrowhead. they do that really well. They train the high school. Do the high school. there's a little training. And then they're one on one. aid with the person going to campus. all ages. And so we have that model in our mind. too. And then. of course. like. you gotta harvest this or the vegetables. or we need to do this project. Do you have any volunteers coming in? That's. you know. classic volunteerism. But you know. we've done so pretty well so far with our volunteers. and we want to keep that up. So I see enormous opportunities for people from Wayland to come and contribute in some way and be a part of it. you know. Bill Adams: Well. I want to thank you all for coming. That's one more question. Sorry. It's kind of my job to represent the neighbors. And so one concern is three of the neighbors have swimming pools. and two of them have said they would be worried that folks would challenge judgment might it might be dangerous for them. And so what would you say to neighbors who were worried about that type of safety issue. like a pool that is available.
Unknown: and there's going to be quite a bit of supervision of the people with the disabilities. you know. So like. if my daughter is like in her electric wheelchair and she makes it that far. no one's whether we fail. I failed utterably. So that's what that would remind him. or like. I just. I would not be worried about that. Yeah. one bit. yeah. I think it is very important to yeah and communicate with neighbors. Yeah. We'd have to be vigilant. Yeah. yeah. We have neighbors with bulls and great Barry tendons in urban issue. Also got lakes. We've got everything that a regular neighborhood would have. Yeah. that's the whole that's that's where we're trying to fit it. But the other thing I like about this is. like. say. Ellie's in one house and all the care staff. if you will. They all know her stuff. It's not just like the ones in that house. The care staff in the other houses are all trained in Elliot. if you will. They understand her. They know her. That's a tremendous like. what's that called when you when you double down on. on your plans. your security plans. right? It's tremendous amount of security. But yes. thank you. It built in redundancy so that. like. you know. just because if I'm a carrier there and I'm just looking after Ellie. but I see Alexa going over there and getting into trouble. I'm going to know. you know. so that's the other thing. I love this model. So I Tom Fay: want to thank you all for coming this evening and educating our committee on your great work. and look forward to seeing communication as in the In the months ahead. Unknown: Excellent. Thank you for having me.
Yes. yeah. yeah. good
care of so we're going to continue on Agenda consideration of Europe.
A motion.
Any proposed changes? All
those in favor. John. approving the minutes? Are
you having a vote? I can't hear I'm hearing a big jumble. I keep not hearing figure three now.
are
hearing somebody in conversation. I'm not hearing okay. we're going to wait a minute. and people are leaving the. Logan. I will not at all. I'm sorry.
but it is helpful. My son is home with right medical issue now.
Bill Adams: Pediatrician. DEP. you can Unknown: hear us right Bill Adams: now. good stuff like that. Unknown: anywhere from a dozen. Stephanie Lynch: I can hear you. but I can also hear everybody else who's talking. Mr. Unknown: Chairman. we're leaving Thank you.
That better. Tom Fay: That's better. Alright. we're going to. we're going to repeat what we said a moment ago. Couldn't be heard. That is. we're going to consider the minutes of August 6. 2025 minutes in our packet. I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes. So move. We have a second. second. Thank you. Jim. discussion on the on the proposed minutes. I mean now those in favor of approving the minutes in our packet? Bill Whitney: Phil. yes. Phil. Unknown: yes. John. yes. Stephanie. yes. And Tom. yes. Tom Fay: That's five zero ones. The next thing on the agenda is Item five. that's discussions and possible vote regarding issuing one or more requests for information from persons in our organization involved in shared living opportunities for adults with disabilities. When we met last bill Whitney agreed to put something together. and Bill. can you tell us a packet? Tell us what you're thinking was and get an input Bill Whitney: from anybody the it's it's certainly a draft for discussion. There's no pride of authorship here. My kind of approach on this was to think of this as a request for information. as we discussed at our prior meeting. to cast a wide net. see who's out there. see what kind of different models there might be and it would. I think. be really useful for the committee to get that kind of feedback. I think that would help inform the committee and hopefully developing a consensus about the type of facility that we would recommend to the Select Board possibly issue a follow up request for proposals. which would be more specific. ask for spreadsheets. maybe draft designs. things of that nature. and to Paint more kind of fulsome description of what perhaps a more limited number of people might have in mind. though I'm not sure if we can actually confine it to a pre selected list. I did John had graciously agreed to work with me on that. I sent him a copy of the draft his comments crossed in the mail with my having gotten the draft to Tom for him to issue as part of the packet. So. so John. I think. probably has some specific comments. but that was. the jazz or my thinking in putting this draft together. Tom Fay: John. your thoughts? John Thomas: Yeah. so. I mean. I think Bill did a really nice job laying the groundwork. I just had some suggested additions really sort of focused more on the disability aspect of it. Tom Fay: I don't know if you want me to. yeah. you can talk. John Thomas: Go through it. So does everybody have bills? Coffee I have so that got sent out in the past. in fact. So in Bill's overview. I simply added the town is. excuse me. the town is particularly interested in proposals that align with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Is philosophy of Person centered planning. which emphasizes creating housing and support services tailored to the individual needs and choices of residents. The goal is to provide a variety of residential options that foster independence. community integration and a high quality of life. So that was basically my suggested insert to Bill's opening overview. Current. Graph. Do you think that we're Tom Fay: narrowing our focus by mentioning the Commonwealth. Massachusetts? The reason I say that is what we've learned during our meetings. as far as how critical they are from a funding perspective. but also here that their philosophy is changing. but necessarily hasn't changed. John Thomas: And well. I specify one aspect in my comment for that very reason. which is. I specify the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is philosophy of Person centered planning. which I think is more on the more progressive end of the spectrum. as these folks were indicating in their narrative. Okay. so that's really. I mean. I'm using selective vision. okay? When I reference the Commonwealth philosophy. okay. that way. Alright. great. Tom Fay: Others. other sections.
John Thomas: So moving on to our requested information. So again. I thought Bill did a really nice job of talking about some of the legal and. you know. the site design. zoning characteristics that we would want to take a look at. So I just sort of jumped on the bandwagon and
Unknown: see added. I'm not going to read do. What do you want me to read each of my additions? Or maybe Tom Fay: on page two. yeah. but John Thomas: and starting on page two and into the that was Tom Fay: the word identification. yeah. okay. you can talk to leave it up here. whether you want to read it or just yeah. whatever you want to do. Bill Adams: Okay. let me just take a quick look at
John Thomas: so I was suggesting that we would ask anyone submitting information to ID the type of residents that this particular development would serve. and include an outreach and needs assessment.
Tom Fay: And given this is a request for information. are we going to discourage organizations from responding. because they have to do more than ever they want to right? John Thomas: Right. yeah. I mean. if it's. if it's just the quest for information. that might be asking a little bit too much. Bill Whitney: So. yeah. happy to Bill Adams: but I mean. I think if General or say it would be welcome or without. I don't know. people could provide it if they had it right. but they shouldn't feel obliged to. yeah. Tom Fay: they were welcome. yeah. John Thomas: I mean. I think identifying the type of residents the development would serve. I mean. yeah. at a very top level. yeah. I mean. we need it at that and great. So that was. I mean. basically these are all the following comments were basically bullets beneath my that. that sort of opening statement. Again. some of these to your to your point. Tom. they may be a little bit onerous for somebody just submitting proposal for information. responding to a proposal for information. So yeah. I mean a proposal for conducting a demographic analysis of the population of adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities in the town of Wayland and abutting communities who may be seeking housing. Maybe it's enough to say. How would you go about conducting outreach and seeking to better. better understand and identify those folks that you're seeking to serve in the town of Wayland and abutting communities. maybe something like that. as opposed to being highly specific. So the next. let's see the next. Well. it was a description of how the development developer service providers will engage with local community members. including families of individuals with disabilities. and local disability advocacy groups to inform the final design and service model. I think that's a reasonable the next bullet was an explanation of how the proposed housing model will be flexible and adaptable to meet the changing needs of residents over time. consistent with a person centered planning approach. again. trying to seek some information as to how they would. Would serve the population that they're intending to serve with a with a nod towards understanding that needs change. preferences change. How do you go about responding to that? Do you go about responding to potential turnover? I mean. that's kind of what I was getting at there.
Tom Fay: And you have a further section down below on addressing the needs. John Thomas: Yeah. I mean. again. sort of piggybacking on to what I was talking about in terms of outreach and how to best identify you know who you might serve in this community and abutting communities. So I said addressing the needs of transitioning youth the town seeks to create a housing model that addresses the needs of its public school population of children with. I said. intellectual disabilities. And I think maybe we ought to make a decision at some point as to whether or not that's our target group. or if we are wanting to be open to people with disabilities. I mean. there is a distinction between people with intellectual and physical disabilities. I threw intellectual disabilities in there just because I felt like we needed a placeholder. almost. Bill Adams: But anyway. again. Tom Fay: I'm a little bit concerned about asking these organizations to provide a plan for outreach or describe a proposed facility against that takes a lot of hours Bill Adams: to feel like an RFP. John Thomas: yeah. I right. but maybe put. put addressing the needs of transitioning use our youth. ie kids that are turning 22 into that previous request for information. How would you do that? Or. you know. let us know how that would be. something that would be. we would be interested in that. Unknown: Stephanie. any comments on the draft from your end.
I couldn't hear your question. Tom Fay: Any comments on your part regarding Bill Whitney's draft on the RFI? Stephanie Lynch: Oh. it's excellent. It's yeah. excellent. I think we need to have some thought of to how broad a range of services we want this whole thing to provide go ranging from full. you know. life to a place to live with some with some physical supports. And how you know how much of an extended you know it. You know how elaborate it's going to be. I guess. considering a lot of the people might actually be in programs already in the daytime and just need a place in Wayland to live and be supported and have a social life. Tom Fay: Yeah. if we keep it broad. we invite. I think. more organizations to educate us. because I'm not sure. as a committee. where we're at the point where we can necessarily make those decisions. recommendations.
Bill Adams: Bill. any thoughts I was I was going to ask a question about to me. this felt like a Pitch. not necessarily an educational session. So yeah. being clear about Yeah. well. what the goal of these meetings is. and I guess for all everyone who wants to talk with us probably has an interest in being part of the town. so it's inevitable that's going to happen. but helping us know. like how to finesse or interpret that. I think would be helpful to me. No. I Tom Fay: think some organizations are more gung ho than others. and some are just individuals in the field. like we've heard the prior meetings with darkness. And we'll have a stake here in Wayland. but certainly have a stake in the industry. and they are willing to come and just chat with us about their job. So it's a varied. a varied number of varied backgrounds. And I'm Bill Adams: I assume we're clear when we invite people that we're in the education phase. there'll be a follow up RFP phase. it's inevitable that they're going to pitch it. because they're so passionate about they do. and Tom Fay: they understand that they knew that we're Bill Adams: due diligence phase. perfect. And I think the more. the better. And I agree we I think we still have more to learn. Because I think two months ago.
Unknown: yeah. in terms of what we asked people to show us. what I like to see is detailed model of what they've done. because it's one thing. You ask people about their intentions. they say. Well. we learned from doing this. but in the future. we're going to do well. they may never figure out how to do it. They may not be able to get the resources to do it. I'd rather see a case study. Of their most recent project that they want to show that they think is a success with. you know. break out of what makes this work. Who do you know how to serve? Is it just the physically disabled people? Is it the intellectually disabled people? What do you know how to do. and show us a model. a successful model. so that we know you know how to do. because it's happening in real time. I've. I've worked with so many groups who had aspirations. and they would tell. you know. it's like. if you haven't done it. I'm not really hearing about it yet. Tell your board. Bill Whitney: There is. there is a bullet gene where we ask them to provide a summary of the proponents. the proposals relevant development experience with build projects comparable to those site civic reference to projects of a similar scale. To question that proposed for the site. including design. affordability and means and sources of financing. is requested. Yeah. we could. yeah. Unknown: that's and hopefully the law will move this whole Olmstead Act. Disabled people can't live together. So reactionary of horrified people who saw terrible suffering and wrote this regulation in a very awkward way that's not serving them well. I bet anything.
So a group like we heard tonight this. this group is. you know. they're a case study for the state. They're. you know. like a beta project. as opposed to. like. mainstay. which has a way it does things. you know. and it's done it over and over and over. It's got a lot of projects. So it'd be a real different recommendation for us to save the town. go with this model that our state is like figuring out if they're going to support it or not. versus guys who are just plugging these out. That's going to be interesting choice for us. as it Bill Adams: were. but their angle. that their approach is really innovative. is. Oh. I love what they do early on in the curve. Unknown: Yeah. yeah. I mean. like talking about how people live on this property. I'm a daughter of a Saskatchewan Farm Girl. Okay. so they had this immense piece of land. Usually it's a mile in each dimension at least. and there'd be multiple houses on the land. and there'd be parents and the sons and his family and the daughter and her family and Aunt Minnie. who never married. and they'd all have their houses. and they all had a life together. you know? And it just to me that just sounds like ordinary living. because that's the model I grew up with when we went to the farm. It's funny. this scene is something so strange now with our life. model of suburban living. Tom Fay: Yes. your thoughts at this point on the drone? Bill Whitney: Well. this conversation is for better or worse. caused me to think of a couple of things. One is. is it appropriate? And or do we wish to express the desire for there being that there is an opportunity in the developed Park project for Wayland residents. or adult children. Wayland residents. I don't know if you know that's that's a 40 B issue or whatever. Tom Fay: Well. I John correct me. but depending on the program you have. state doesn't like that. They like they like programs to be open to everybody in the state. right? But that doesn't mean programs that would permit that. For example. if you're a private developer. ending on your funding how residents of how the living expenses are funded. I'm not sure that's in the equation. right? Bill Whitney: It might be interesting to sort of toss that out there in an RFI. just like. Oh. what are your thoughts? Yeah. you know. it doesn't I think buying the town to anything. I Bill Adams: think. I don't think that John Thomas: the state in the guise of say. DDS is necessarily Unknown: holding John Thomas: very fast to that of this point of Tom. I mean. that's just my opinion. And one of the things that they also have to intend with is when kids are turning 22 And we are talking about. or maybe the way to couch this. put it that way. is to say that we we would like to be offering local kids that are turning 22 or kids that are turning 22 in an athletic community. the natural inclination is for those people to prefer to stay closer to home than to move out to lemon Sturt or down to the Cape where the only program is or the funded slot is open to them. So this is a way to sort of honor that wish that the individual or the family is making. So. I mean. there are different ways to sell this in a way I think. yeah. so that would be bill. I think the way. if we want to play around with it. that would be the way I think we would want to do it. Bill Adams: And I think good for the residents to stay local. but for the parents to stay engaged. like they all want to stay engaged. to be in the neighborhood. I don't know if there's a way to think of it beyond Wayland. but still in a relatively small scales. Maybe there'll be other group homes in neighboring towns. and they could take Wayland kids if we didn't have space. or. you know. if you could have a small regional strategy. something like that. Might be more flexible over time. But I like that idea as a person. Wayland and who. and you know. the people who. for various reasons. gave their land to Wayland. it might be nice to have the town benefit from that somehow. Unknown: So one of the things I'd like to hear from these groups is. and they brought up these children are all going to outlive the parents. The parents are the board members. The parents are the fundraisers. you know. and they're all going to pass. And then what's the plan to keep that all happening in this kind of organization. or even just the more typical model. I you know. I think that probably happens everywhere. How do they keep going once the natural advocate group is gone? I don't know how they do it. If there's any way to get them to tell us something about that that would be helpful. Bill Whitney: Maybe they also do intend to die. Yeah. many times. The other thing that hurts me. maybe this goes in a cover letter or something. is to jeans point. we don't know what we want. and so we're asking them to tell us what. what they know. what they do. what they're good at. And you know. you alluded to it in your opening remarks by saying. on the due diligence phase. should we be explicit about that so that people come in telling us what they do rather than what they think? We want them to say. yeah. Tom Fay: that's. that's the suggestion. Maybe even include the charge of our committee within the cup. Unknown: yeah. right. John Thomas: And into some of that due diligence also include doing some outreach to determine what the need. Unknown: the local need. would be. And Tom Fay: to that point we do have a woman coming in from high school who can shed some light on them. That's not the end of that's not the last word on that. but that is Doc Bill Whitney: future means. okay. great. Question is. Tom. is this made available? Tom Fay: So I've been in touch with Michael McCall and Tom manager. and he's hired a part time person to assist him with tasks license. and she has extensive experience. and she'll she'll assist into that question. I will say that Brian bossier did provide me with a list of organizations that are involved in serving adults with disabilities. and this is it. I reached out to every one of them. and many of them have are interested in coming before us chat. So we're scheduled through October. So this will Unknown: be helpful. I think they need Tom Fay: better. even more information. Bill Whitney: And when do you think we would issue this? Ideally. I was Tom Fay: going to propose that that if the board is if the committee is comfortable. we vote to have you can finalize it and then. and then work with me and the town manager's office to Bill Whitney: Michigan. so I'd bring a revised. back draft back to the committee. Tom Fay: No. we authorize you to edit it based on comments and. Then we. and then we. I think for the most part. it's in good shape. I think we heard comments and to remember from committee members that permit you to advise it Bill Whitney: and for someone else to grab it. Bill Adams: Well. it can make you want to be welcome to send it. but I trust you. Tom Fay: Keep it comfortable with that plan? Yes. so I'll entertain a motion then that Bill Whitney revised the draft and RFI draft finalize it and submit and Tom in his office for distribute second. Do I hear it about sorry. yes. yes. Do I hear a second discussion? Unknown: Yes. yes. thank you so all the favorite Stephanie. yes. Tom Fay: yeah. yes. Unknown: Can you hear me? Yes. yeah. yes. Tom Fay: Tom. six. seven. given that. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Bill Adams: So moved second. second. right. no. Unknown: all those in favor. Stephanie. to adjourn. Yes. yes. yes. Tom Fay: Jean. yes. John. yes. Phil. yes. Unknown: thank you. Stephanie. good to see you. Bye.
Board of Assessors
Unknown: Sure it's 6:02pm
Steve Klitgord: and Monday.
September 8. one may watch and
or participate remotely with
hybrid waiting link that can be
found at H. P. P. F. P. w. w.
Wayland. dot mass us. pursuant
to chapter two of the acts of
2025. this meeting will be
conducted via remote
participation. No in person
attendance by members of the
public will be permitted. This
meeting will be recorded. which
will be made available in the to
the public via WayCAM As soon
after the meeting. as is
practicable. public will be
excluded from the executive
sessions. So starting at 6:03pm
let's call the meeting to order
Zachariah Ventress: by roll call vote. Steve Klitgord: my roll call vote. yes. Thank you.
Unknown: McNeely here. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventures here. and Steve klipkirt Steve Klitgord: here. And Philip just joined us. I think Philip. you said that you're here. Yeah. Okay. Johnny. public comments. I see no one online. Hey. thank you. So we'll start by reviewing the minutes from Monday. August 11.
Robert Leroux: it's on page two in your package. page two and three. You
Steve Klitgord: I have no questions. No questions. Zachariah Ventress: Yeah. I make a motion to accept the minutes as drafted. Steve Klitgord: We have a second. Second. Doug Neely. those in favor.
Zachariah Ventress: Aye. Zach ventures. aye. Doug McNeil. yes. Steve Klitgord: Phil Park. yes. And Steve klipgard. yes. It's unanimous. Robert Leroux: Thank you. Moving on to page four in your package. 2025. annual report. which is five pages total. And following that annual report is the hear report. It's sort of a combination of both. It's labeled finance. It's on page nine and page 10. We're looking to have the chair acting chair request the motion to accept on both reports. Upon acceptance. we'll submit it to the administration office. It's due September 30. okay. Zachariah Ventress: yeah. Rob any. any sort of kind of really new issues or content. or is this largely kind of a just an update with the most recent data? Robert Leroux: Recent data. obviously. the summary of activities and accomplishment changes year to year. and also the board's goals for 2026 you don't have it available. Zachariah Ventress: Zach. no. no. I'm looking at it right now. Yep. Okay. fine. yeah. yeah. no. I was just asking Yeah. just high level for everybody. Steve Klitgord: Yeah. I have no questions on it. No questions. Somebody has any no any questions. Can I have a motion to accept the 2025. annual report as presented here. as well as the it's financial report to the board of assessors? Beautiful.
Zachariah Ventress: So moved Steve Klitgord: seconds. Okay. all those in favor. Zachariah Ventress: Zach. French. yes. Steve Klitgord: Phil Park. yes. McNeil. yes. And Steve. go ahead. yes. Rob. you've got it. Thank you. Robert Leroux: Moving on to page two.
Unknown: age 11
Robert Leroux: each year we have to submit on behalf of the board the CP one. It's a Community Preservation surcharge report. It's part of our process for 2026 but. You have to do this report based on the previous year. 2025. again. it's on page 11. So the surcharge in Wayland is one and a half percent. The total surcharge was $1.198.696.88
less. abatements and exemptions totaling $4.066.07 less prior year surcharges for abatement and exemptions. 190 1.18 so the net surcharge raised for that fiscal year was 1.000.009 194.430 $194.439.63
so the office is looking for the active chair to seek a motion to accept this on behalf of the Board of assessors. so we can upload it and submit it to DLs by the deadline of September 15. Steve Klitgord: Okay. can I have a motion to accept the 2025 CPI Community Preservation surcharge report as presented. Zachariah Ventress: make a motion to accept this report and give Rob permission to upload this to The systems. Steve Klitgord: Second. May I have a second. Doug McNeal. a second. All those in favor. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventre. yes. Doug McNeal. yes. Steve Klitgord: Philip archis and Steve klipgard. yes. okay. it's accepted. Robert Leroux: Thank you. Under directors review and update of Office activities. The agenda states 2027 assesses budget finalized. While it's not finalized. it's a moving. moving target. I can share with you as of this evening that we're basically level funded. minus $5.000 in supplies. Most likely we're going to take another quote haircut later on in the process. as things get tightened up. So that's where we stand today. Basically level funded. minus $5.000 removed from supplies. based on five year history. and we anticipate other reductions as well. As far as expenses go. the department. salaries are written through union negotiations. union agreements. and they will increase for those agreements. Steve Klitgord: Rob. are there anything special you can think of coming forward that we ought to be thinking about. that you know you would like us to increase spending on even knowing full well that they're going to drop the spending level. Robert Leroux: Well. we will be putting out an RFP for services in January because our contract is up with both real estate and personal property vendors. consultants. Okay. so those numbers will increase. The finance director does know that scenario. and we have some float there to make sure that they will be funded. Zachariah Ventress: Okay. Rob. can I ask a clarification question is things like mileage and gas and other things like. are those part of the quote supplies. or is that under kind of other categories of budget Robert Leroux: it would be. it would be expenses we're not paying for mileage these days because we have two Oh town vehicles. town vehicles that are asking. Unknown: Okay Robert Leroux: travel. we still carry $1.000 in travel based on maybe a hotel stay for continuing education in South Bridge or wherever Got it. Zachariah Ventress: okay? Yeah. Robert Leroux: printing. we're still carrying $2.400 for printing because those postcards we're going to be sending out relatively soon for disclosure period. It is what it is. It's yeah. yeah. Zachariah Ventress: It's a requirement. yeah. unless. unless we have digital opt in and email addresses for all residents. we've got to use those cards. Robert Leroux: So again. contractual services that will change based on the RFP selected vendor. anticipate. you know. an increase there. as long as well as professional services. I mean. all services go up. but we're not asking for any additional work from these sources. No. oh. yeah. it'll be what it'll be you. Okay. there's no advertising. whether it be legal or otherwise. anymore or utilizing online services. Okay. so that was reduced back in 2024. 2025 budget. okay. mileage. well. we're still carrying 301. for some reason that will go by the wayside if we continue to cut. Okay.
Zachariah Ventress: Rob. do you need us to thank you for kind of giving us the context and sharing that. Do you need us to do anything at the moment? Or does that conclude Robert Leroux: need for a vote or approval? I will write in the minutes that I presented the information. I will share the questions asked. and again. they'll show up in minutes for our next meeting to approve unless you want to No. Want to do something differently. Zachariah Ventress: No. no. that makes sense. Okay. Does that conclude our business for the Robert Leroux: if there are any topics that weren't part of the agenda within the 48 hour posting. Steve Klitgord: I'm all set. Zachariah Ventress: All set. all set. all set. Robert Leroux: general thoughts and concerns by members. Steve Klitgord: none. not at the moment. none. Robert Leroux: We propose our next meeting to be Monday. Excuse me. yes. Monday. October 6. again with an open and executive session. and that's all we have on the agenda. If someone wanted wants to close the meeting for the purposes of going into Executive Session. that would be grand. Steve Klitgord: Okay. should I read the preamble the information first. or a call for a vote to Robert Leroux: I would read the preamble first. please. and then. okay. roll call vote to close. Steve Klitgord: Okay. So 6:14pm. the next we'll enter into executive sessions for purpose of applying with GLC 59 section 60 and GLC 214. section 18 is permitted by purpose seven of GLC 330. a. section 23 a to review and discuss the following new minutes from Monday August 11. to vote to accept and release motor vehicle abatements Monday the month of August. vote to accept discuss. ATB case docket number f 35 4405. also FY 2025. clause 21 a deferral to resend some money and a series of 2025. ATB case docket numbers. there's 1-234-567-8910. 234-567-8910. of them. some Bowman. Amelia. Boston realtor. Realty retail and 20 mid Wayland. Boston retail and level three communications. the board will not return to open meeting ever like to vote to close the meeting
Zachariah Ventress: a second
Steve Klitgord: all those in favor? Philip Park. yes. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventures. yes. Unknown: Ben McNeill. yes. Steve Klitgord: DEP good yes. and we will return to Executive Session. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank.
Zachariah Ventress: by roll call vote. Steve Klitgord: my roll call vote. yes. Thank you.
Unknown: McNeely here. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventures here. and Steve klipkirt Steve Klitgord: here. And Philip just joined us. I think Philip. you said that you're here. Yeah. Okay. Johnny. public comments. I see no one online. Hey. thank you. So we'll start by reviewing the minutes from Monday. August 11.
Robert Leroux: it's on page two in your package. page two and three. You
Steve Klitgord: I have no questions. No questions. Zachariah Ventress: Yeah. I make a motion to accept the minutes as drafted. Steve Klitgord: We have a second. Second. Doug Neely. those in favor.
Zachariah Ventress: Aye. Zach ventures. aye. Doug McNeil. yes. Steve Klitgord: Phil Park. yes. And Steve klipgard. yes. It's unanimous. Robert Leroux: Thank you. Moving on to page four in your package. 2025. annual report. which is five pages total. And following that annual report is the hear report. It's sort of a combination of both. It's labeled finance. It's on page nine and page 10. We're looking to have the chair acting chair request the motion to accept on both reports. Upon acceptance. we'll submit it to the administration office. It's due September 30. okay. Zachariah Ventress: yeah. Rob any. any sort of kind of really new issues or content. or is this largely kind of a just an update with the most recent data? Robert Leroux: Recent data. obviously. the summary of activities and accomplishment changes year to year. and also the board's goals for 2026 you don't have it available. Zachariah Ventress: Zach. no. no. I'm looking at it right now. Yep. Okay. fine. yeah. yeah. no. I was just asking Yeah. just high level for everybody. Steve Klitgord: Yeah. I have no questions on it. No questions. Somebody has any no any questions. Can I have a motion to accept the 2025. annual report as presented here. as well as the it's financial report to the board of assessors? Beautiful.
Zachariah Ventress: So moved Steve Klitgord: seconds. Okay. all those in favor. Zachariah Ventress: Zach. French. yes. Steve Klitgord: Phil Park. yes. McNeil. yes. And Steve. go ahead. yes. Rob. you've got it. Thank you. Robert Leroux: Moving on to page two.
Unknown: age 11
Robert Leroux: each year we have to submit on behalf of the board the CP one. It's a Community Preservation surcharge report. It's part of our process for 2026 but. You have to do this report based on the previous year. 2025. again. it's on page 11. So the surcharge in Wayland is one and a half percent. The total surcharge was $1.198.696.88
less. abatements and exemptions totaling $4.066.07 less prior year surcharges for abatement and exemptions. 190 1.18 so the net surcharge raised for that fiscal year was 1.000.009 194.430 $194.439.63
so the office is looking for the active chair to seek a motion to accept this on behalf of the Board of assessors. so we can upload it and submit it to DLs by the deadline of September 15. Steve Klitgord: Okay. can I have a motion to accept the 2025 CPI Community Preservation surcharge report as presented. Zachariah Ventress: make a motion to accept this report and give Rob permission to upload this to The systems. Steve Klitgord: Second. May I have a second. Doug McNeal. a second. All those in favor. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventre. yes. Doug McNeal. yes. Steve Klitgord: Philip archis and Steve klipgard. yes. okay. it's accepted. Robert Leroux: Thank you. Under directors review and update of Office activities. The agenda states 2027 assesses budget finalized. While it's not finalized. it's a moving. moving target. I can share with you as of this evening that we're basically level funded. minus $5.000 in supplies. Most likely we're going to take another quote haircut later on in the process. as things get tightened up. So that's where we stand today. Basically level funded. minus $5.000 removed from supplies. based on five year history. and we anticipate other reductions as well. As far as expenses go. the department. salaries are written through union negotiations. union agreements. and they will increase for those agreements. Steve Klitgord: Rob. are there anything special you can think of coming forward that we ought to be thinking about. that you know you would like us to increase spending on even knowing full well that they're going to drop the spending level. Robert Leroux: Well. we will be putting out an RFP for services in January because our contract is up with both real estate and personal property vendors. consultants. Okay. so those numbers will increase. The finance director does know that scenario. and we have some float there to make sure that they will be funded. Zachariah Ventress: Okay. Rob. can I ask a clarification question is things like mileage and gas and other things like. are those part of the quote supplies. or is that under kind of other categories of budget Robert Leroux: it would be. it would be expenses we're not paying for mileage these days because we have two Oh town vehicles. town vehicles that are asking. Unknown: Okay Robert Leroux: travel. we still carry $1.000 in travel based on maybe a hotel stay for continuing education in South Bridge or wherever Got it. Zachariah Ventress: okay? Yeah. Robert Leroux: printing. we're still carrying $2.400 for printing because those postcards we're going to be sending out relatively soon for disclosure period. It is what it is. It's yeah. yeah. Zachariah Ventress: It's a requirement. yeah. unless. unless we have digital opt in and email addresses for all residents. we've got to use those cards. Robert Leroux: So again. contractual services that will change based on the RFP selected vendor. anticipate. you know. an increase there. as long as well as professional services. I mean. all services go up. but we're not asking for any additional work from these sources. No. oh. yeah. it'll be what it'll be you. Okay. there's no advertising. whether it be legal or otherwise. anymore or utilizing online services. Okay. so that was reduced back in 2024. 2025 budget. okay. mileage. well. we're still carrying 301. for some reason that will go by the wayside if we continue to cut. Okay.
Zachariah Ventress: Rob. do you need us to thank you for kind of giving us the context and sharing that. Do you need us to do anything at the moment? Or does that conclude Robert Leroux: need for a vote or approval? I will write in the minutes that I presented the information. I will share the questions asked. and again. they'll show up in minutes for our next meeting to approve unless you want to No. Want to do something differently. Zachariah Ventress: No. no. that makes sense. Okay. Does that conclude our business for the Robert Leroux: if there are any topics that weren't part of the agenda within the 48 hour posting. Steve Klitgord: I'm all set. Zachariah Ventress: All set. all set. all set. Robert Leroux: general thoughts and concerns by members. Steve Klitgord: none. not at the moment. none. Robert Leroux: We propose our next meeting to be Monday. Excuse me. yes. Monday. October 6. again with an open and executive session. and that's all we have on the agenda. If someone wanted wants to close the meeting for the purposes of going into Executive Session. that would be grand. Steve Klitgord: Okay. should I read the preamble the information first. or a call for a vote to Robert Leroux: I would read the preamble first. please. and then. okay. roll call vote to close. Steve Klitgord: Okay. So 6:14pm. the next we'll enter into executive sessions for purpose of applying with GLC 59 section 60 and GLC 214. section 18 is permitted by purpose seven of GLC 330. a. section 23 a to review and discuss the following new minutes from Monday August 11. to vote to accept and release motor vehicle abatements Monday the month of August. vote to accept discuss. ATB case docket number f 35 4405. also FY 2025. clause 21 a deferral to resend some money and a series of 2025. ATB case docket numbers. there's 1-234-567-8910. 234-567-8910. of them. some Bowman. Amelia. Boston realtor. Realty retail and 20 mid Wayland. Boston retail and level three communications. the board will not return to open meeting ever like to vote to close the meeting
Zachariah Ventress: a second
Steve Klitgord: all those in favor? Philip Park. yes. Zachariah Ventress: Zach ventures. yes. Unknown: Ben McNeill. yes. Steve Klitgord: DEP good yes. and we will return to Executive Session. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank.
Board of Health
Jonathan Storer: Was September
15. 2025 it's hybrid meeting in
person or via zoom. one may
watch or participate remotely
with the meeting link. We found
that wayland.us public body
meeting information. virtual in
person and hybrid. Pursuant to
chapter two of the acts of 2025.
This meeting will be conducted
in person and via remote means.
in accordance with applicable
law. This meeting way may be
recorded which will be made
available to the public on
WayCAM as soon after the meeting
is back and do a roll call.
Brett Mortis here. Katie stiff
here. Genevieve Anna here. John
store here.
Unknown: perfect. Thank you.
We have a public comment first. one way online. and I'll Lindsay is going to join us as a part of the agenda at seven o'clock. Jonathan Storer: So they're not don't see any public comment online. Unknown: Okay? So. Abby. do you have public money? Abigail Charest: Sure. Should I go now or Well. no. you're part Unknown: of the agenda. Okay. yep. so we're ready to get started with the with the first agenda Jonathan Storer: item. No. it's first agenda is review and comment on subject design plans for Wayland High School. Drafted by is it? Ty Tyne bond with guest town engineer. Abby Charest. Abigail Charest: Hi. how are you? You can Unknown: come up a little closer. because sometimes it's hard to get
Abigail Charest: well. I hope to be a little bit farther along on this project. But the engineer that I usually work with has appendix burst. and he's been in the hospital. so we're a little bit farther behind than I had wanted to be. but we did get out into the field and did some test bits and do the soil evaluation test with Darren. and we have those results on the top of The third page here. talking about design standards for the leach fields and how much we'll have to have the additional reserve areas associated. But again. so we're still looking at the high school treatment plant. It's been offline for a long time. When we looked at the flows. they were lower than 10.000 gallons a day. So we've been looking at designing something under Title Five. It is in the zone two. so we'd have to do some additional nitrogen removal. which means we need an IA system. We've looked at a couple of IA systems. We looked at an and Nitro. But because we had so many more examples of the amphidrome system being used in schools. we felt like That was the best one to go with. We felt that some of the operations difficulties with the treatment plant previously were due to those variable flows from the school. and that. since am for drum could demonstrate more of a background with the schools. we felt more comfortable with that technology. I did text in since we just were chatting in the office. we're a little bit concerned about the probability of finding someone Unknown: to do O and M operation in MA. Operation. oh. sorry. Abigail Charest: Operation. operation maintenance. because these types of systems are often used on the cape because they are specific to nitrogen sensitive areas. But White Water has people. and there is a company called Unknown: Lewis. Oh. okay. Abigail Charest: so there's. there's some people around. So we'll be continuing to look at that and get you. you know. further design drawings and specifications. So I just want to give you an update. let you know that still working on this. and see if you have any questions so far. Also. just to say that please think about how you want to go through review and design of this. It if this was a treatment plant. we have previously been out requests for qualifications and gotten engineering firms. and that's why we use tie and bond. That's how we found them. So if this was a treatment plant. we would just go out to bid for construction. Uh. on this with the time bond design. with having me reviewed it. um. but since it's going through the board here. you guys would be normally send it out for additional review. You just think about if the town has had me review it and time bond design. and if you want to send Julia Junghanns: it. that would be for. like. an example of a peer review we've had done on some other projects recently. for for some larger systems where some of the dosing might be looked at. or mounting calculations and things like that that we would typically have another set of eyes look at. you know. from a peer review consultant sometimes. and then staff. I mean. we do the review in house. And then. you know. the board has been involved with this design. because we're changing from. you know. having the wastewater facility on site to the conventional system with alternative technology. So. you know. typically for residential projects. the board isn't typically involved. but because of those intricacies of this change where we have been involved. because there's a variance. you know. to use those different flow so. so that's. you know. part of but staff would also be reviewed with a design and feedback.
Unknown: So we usually would send it out for additional review. depending on. you know. what we end up with for Abigail Charest: flow them. so 8000 gallons. Yeah. on the other hand. this is a town project. so the town's already paid for the design. And to have. as opposed to having. like a commercial development come in with something. then you want to have that with you. Unknown: so we almost wouldn't need to. in this case. just because you've already. sort of. Abigail Charest: it's been through the town engineer as Unknown: well. which is you. but do you do septic design reviews? Abigail Charest: I mean. I have. you Unknown: have. yeah. okay. yeah. because I didn't know if you had the like for pressure dosing or mounding. or any of those types Abigail Charest: of things. More specifically than we're looking at the technologies and goals of the IA systems. yeah. and working with full towns to do. like a comprehensive stuff. Unknown: once we get a little further on. we'll have. you know. better idea for. you know. if there was additional review needed. you know. if we felt like we wanted that. but we'll work together. Jonathan Storer: And then. after it's built. is there testing to make sure that we meet the requirements for
Abigail Charest: nitrogen the there's operation and maintenance Julia Junghanns: of it. It depends which approval is is used for the and we're not sure which approval is used yet. We did. you know. Darren. I took a quick look at it. because each technology has different types of approvals that change all the time. So once we have an idea which one is being used. then there's a whole set of different rules and parameters for testing and whatnot that we would look at to figure out what would be needed for the long term O and M operation and maintenance.
Unknown: We haven't seen new amped around go in in quite some time. So. you know. it's something that we would look at. I mean. we will get all of them when they come through. But for a system this size. it might be new territory for us. You know. what's at the middle school? The Middle School. I think is a bio clear. okay. that's right. yeah. Abigail Charest: yes. I asked them to look at that as I my initial assumption would be that I would rather have a consistent technology throughout town. but time Bond did not.
Unknown: Why did they have a reason why this passed towards their mental Jonathan Storer: system? I'll find there's a large system for an assisted living housing development in Carlisle that's they've been dealing with nitrogen problems for the last couple of years. And I'll find out what the system Unknown: is. So it's not meeting the parameter correct. Jonathan Storer: and the they must have test or somewhere in the leaching field. and it's all. it's always coming up too high. Oh. wow. Okay. so once it's built. it's pretty expensive to try to. Unknown: right? Yeah. And. Abigail Charest: Yeah. luckily. the soils were pretty good out there. Sandy. It was a little bit of fill at the top that we have to pick out and remove a buck Jonathan Storer: once we got what is the I haven't walked over there. What is the land there now? Is it just open space? Is it woods or Abigail Charest: it's open space? There is sort of a hill area that the leaching fields are on. and then it kind of slopes down to baseball field. and then the football practice field. And as you go towards the football practice the groundwater gets higher and higher. but we're able to position this up on that mounted area. Jonathan Storer: And will the land be able to be utilized for anything after the fields are in. Abigail Charest: um. nothing that you could build on. but kids would be able to run around on Jonathan Storer: it. yep. okay. I didn't know how what it's going to be peppered with test pits or. you know. the spots that you can test. or what it would look like. Abigail Charest: I think they use it for frisbee. Ultimate Frisbee first to golf. yeah. Jonathan Storer: because it's not flat. yeah.
Unknown: yeah. that's so that's important regarding the nitrogen removal. because it is so close to the town wells. you know. So I'm sure that Ty and bond will be looking at that closely. yeah. to figure out what the best I mean. they're saying. yeah. good. wrong at this point. So yeah. Jonathan Storer: then maybe any system. I mean. do you when you purchase a system like that. Is it based on your gallons per day. and is it. is it that you err on the to be a little larger versus. yeah. and could systems be expanded if they needed to be okay? So it depends Abigail Charest: on the system. I don't know if an extended. but I'll look into that. But usually you err on the side of making sure you can cover up peak flows. although the Title Five is usually the peak flows. And then some of the systems can also be expanded. or additional filters can be added. I mean. Jonathan Storer: with these systems. that's really the pre treatment is going to be the secret. That's right. it's in its success.
Unknown: So probably maybe the next month or so. Abigail Charest: we'll hear from you again. Yeah. they're saying that we'll submit something by the day. Oh. okay. yeah. is there Unknown: like a deadline that you're trying Abigail Charest: to meet? I would like to start construction after baseball season.
Unknown: Are they? Oh. because it's right next to the baseball field. So then. just out of curiosity. I might be getting hit. But yeah. what will happen to the wastewater units that are in the building and any components that have been Abigail Charest: we'll need to use some of the electricity and some of the wiring for the instrumentation. but we'll also do some demo inside that building and take out some of the and we actually will have to wait until after July 1 together. position to go um. right after that. and trying to timeline the construction so that we're doing the fields in the summer. And if we have to do some of the treatment by the treatment plant. we can do that rather than McCall that we just start. I don't
Jonathan Storer: remember what type of leaching field will it be? Is it just like a big stone in black bed? Or. yeah. yes. it would Unknown: be pressure desk. right? This one. yes. because of the gallons per day I would. I believe it has. right. yeah. but it would still be. well. it's pressure. dose. Abigail Charest: it's pressure. yeah. yeah. show it. yeah. a little horse man over here. Yeah?
It's dose for another reason to like to have multiple reasons. Finally. they've seen it made it it's also Unknown: uphill. right? Sure that makes sense. I
Awesome. That's up there. I think thank you very happy.
We are a few minutes early. I don't know if you want to
go over some of the health director updates. We do have Lindsay here. but I don't know if she's sound prepared. or you should just stick to the seven o'clock time. Maybe
I could talk about mosquitoes from the health director on the Oh. she hasn't helped see that.
Hi. Lindsay. hi. How are you? I don't know. I don't camera option. For some reason I can see all of you and I'm here. But okay. I just found the link on the website Julia. so I don't know if there's a different link. I need to participate via video.
That was probably my fault. No. no. it's fine. I mean. I see the meeting link. but I don't know. Do
promote to panelist. Can you do that? Oh. yeah. did it work?
It says she'll be rejoining. Okay. yes. here I am. Okay. Oh. perfect. You're Hired. right? All right. we just get rid of that little box. Perfect. Thank you.
All right. okay. great. sorry to not be able to be in person. Well. thanks for joining. Yeah. we do appreciate it. Yes. absolutely. absolutely and again. apologies I couldn't be there in person. juggling kids schedules and all the things in the evening. but happy to be here and Julie. I figured I'd just go over the annual report. and certainly I'm happy to answer any questions that folks have. That's great. I'm just going to hand out a fresh coffee so everyone has it great. sure. So for those of who I haven't met. I'm Lindsay steinstep. the executive director at hrs Human Relations Service. the community mental health agency that serves West and Wayland and Wellesley. And I thought I would just review our FY 25 year and then again. answer any questions you all have. Our visits for Wayland residents were up this past year fairly significantly. We did just over 1100 clinical hours for Wayland residents. And I should back up and say. we see. you know. children all the way through. seniors in the community. and actually have recently made a push to ensure that seniors in all three of the towns that we serve are aware that we take Medicare and. you know. welcome them to access services through us as well. And I think some of that marketing has been useful because we've gotten sort of an influx of intakes from the senior community. which is great. but certainly. you know. most of our referrals come through the public school system or other residents who use services at hrs before. So the visit count was up from FY 24 and FY 24 just to go back. we did 864 clinical visits. So again. fy 25 we did 11 192 we did 30 consultation hours to the public school to sort of small groups or individuals within the public school system. I do some of those. My colleague. Alan Wyatt does some of those. And then Dr Luke Baker sirode Does some of the consultations as well. and certainly we're available to add. subtract. change consultation schedule as needed throughout the year. So many. some of you may remember that in years past. if there's been a tragic loss in a school community or something like that. we're always happy to come and support a school community. Or administrator as the need arises. But these consultations that I'm reviewing now. the 30 we did in FY 25 are just sort of our standard consultations that that we continue to do year to year. and in terms of our intake program. just in general. we had 31 new Wayland resident clients in FY 25 and then 52 sort of unique clients all together. So the difference there being that the 52 includes clients who have been at hrs for more than a year. So for example. children. you know. often we're doing long term work. generally. But kids. adolescents. may have seen the same therapist from FY 24 into FY 25 but we did 31 new intakes for Wayland residents in FY 2510 of those were kids under the age of 1112. Of them were between the ages of 12 and 18. and then nine of them were 19 plus. so sort of a range in terms of age. far and away. the sort of diagnostic category that we see the most of is anxiety. That may not surprise many of you. though anxiety is sort of a large umbrella. So there are. you know. plenty of diagnostic labels that would fall under that. but just for the purposes of a broad overview. that's certainly the primary issue that folks who come to seek our services are struggling with generally. And then actually right behind that was ADHD this past year. and then just under that. depression. usually depression. or historically. I should say. depression and anxiety have been sort of neck and neck. or closer together than the numbers show this past year. which is just interesting. You know. on a larger scale. as we think about what residents are contending with when it comes to mental health issues. and let's see. what else can I share in terms of referrals out so in the report. I go over that we. you know. one of our sort of big agency wide pushes this past year has been to build up our clinical staff just to ensure that we have the clinical capacity to serve as many residents as we can. We are a organization of roughly 35 total employees. so 25 you know. clinical staff. So we're never going to be able to meet the mental health needs of all of Wayland in any year. of course. but certainly. we want to make sure that we see as many as we can who are appropriate for care at hrs. And so this past year. we welcomed five trainees. which represented the largest training class that we've ever had. And these trainees are. I should mention. you know. late stage doctoral students or social work fellows who have graduated from their program and are just accruing hours towards their own independent licensure. So it's not. you know. I hesitate to use the word trainee. because usually people feel like that's sort of a real entry level clinician. And these clinicians have a lot of clinical experience already under their belt. and are supervised. It's a two year program that we have so welcoming that larger class of trainees last year. and again. they're still with us this year for the second year. really helped us to increase our clinical capacity. which I think is one of the reasons that the numbers were up this past year. just in terms of visits. And it also helps us to refer out fewer cases. of course. So you know. there are cases that we're going to refer out. even if we did have capacity because they're not appropriate for care at hrs. they might be looking for specialized treatment. They might have an insurance that we don't take. something like that. but so for so. we referred out 20 Wayland residents this past year. and nine of those were not appropriate for care at hrs. They had an insurance retake and needed to use their insurance or they were seeking specialized treatment of some kind. The other refer out cases were either folks who called at a time that we didn't have capacity to see them. they may have had a particular time that they needed to be seen. Some children and adolescents. you know. really don't have a lot of availability. and our after school evening hours go certainly the fastest throughout the year. So but if we do refer out. we refer Wayland residents to folks in the community that either a staff member. a clinical staff member. has recommended. knows. sometimes it's somebody who's worked at hrs in the past. So it's a really well vetted list. So I always mentioned that because I think that's another great service hrs can offer to the community is kind of a personalized. really well vetted referral system. So we're more than happy to work with any Wayland resident to get connected to mental health treatment and and we're going to the INT. Team. the clinicians who are on that team are going to stick with any resident until they find a provider if we can't see them that they are satisfied with. So as much as they want to continue to reach out to us. if they're having difficulty. we're going to stick with them and make sure that they get connected as well. But overall. our referral numbers are down. and the number of Wayland residents you know. seen in house has gone up in the last couple of years. and just again for reference. and this is all in the report. But in FY 23 we saw 677 residents. as I said. In FY 24 864 and then just over 1100 this past fiscal year. So it's going up. So Right?
And what else can I share? Let me pause and then not inundate you with numbers and ask if people have particular questions. either from the report or just about hrs currently. in general. happy to do my best.
I was wondering you under the diagnosis breakdown. There's one that just had. is a NA is that just somebody that saw referral. but there is no real diagnosis with it. So the diagnostic breakdown actually. and I can look into what that is. that this is actually all of the cases seen. and that could just be. somehow the coding it could be. let's see. you know. couples is in there. The way that that information got coded in our system. whatever the diagnostic category was. just didn't fall into one of these categories. So I will look into that. I don't know exactly it should be an other. I would assume. But that's just an error in our sort of the way our operations manager who collects the data from our electronic health record system.
it got code. okay. yeah. Was there any. any. any other. like. really severe cases that would be like. stand out in terms of. like. very. very severe depression or any. anything. or has it been. like. more or less manageable? You know. I would say it's manageable. HMS is not an acute care facility. So if we're working with a resident. or a resident's been referred. or we hear about an individual you know through the school system who's struggling. you know. to a great degree. essentially. when they present to us. we're likely going to recommend a higher level of care than outpatient treatment. We do come across these cases and help the folks in the school system you know work with individuals. if they're school aged. who you know can be really struggling with a pretty severe depressive episode. But again. if they come to us seeking treatment and they're in the midst of it. we're we're likely to recommend either going to the hospital just to assess for safety reasons and liability reasons. or a higher level of care if it's already sort of identified that it's really severe. That being said. we have a psychiatrist on staff who's trained as a child and adult analyst. and he. you know. certainly has a tremendous amount of experience. and as long as somebody is in treatment. in therapy at hrs. they can access medication management through us. So. you know. we certainly see folks who are struggling with a severe depression. but I would say overall. our clientele are able to function. you know. for the most part. day to day. whether they're school aged or within The adult population. Thank you. Yeah. absolutely. Other questions. I
Julia Junghanns: do appreciate the information. as we had talked about. you know. previously. when we fell shut hope was here. She's actually left the town and no longer working here. unfortunately. Unknown: So yeah. but some more information. And you know. we can pull that into our annual report that is due the end of this month. And so. you know. we've been working busily on our draft. and no so we appreciate your coming in. I don't know if any other folks have questions. but we do have some time as we have scheduled. Yeah. Absolutely. And we were happy to add one of the things. just for others on the call that Michelle was interested in. was referral source data. So we were. we started gathering that this past fiscal year upon request. And. you know. it's interesting to see. it's always a sensitive thing to figure out how to gather. you know. more data. right? But also be sensitive to folks calling to seek mental health treatment and not be. you know. asking too many questions for our own data gathering purposes. Within that first call. we want to make sure that they feel comfortable giving information. And for some people. it may be sensitive how they learned about hrs or from whom. and and the data. as you can see in the chart. sort of supports what we thought. 28 you know. referrals from the public school district. but a couple from the Senior Center. which was great to see. And then. you know. and this is self report. So. so the clients themselves who presented are giving us that information. 12 self referred. four from family members. five from community and then six from PCPs. which was higher than anticipated. But we we always try to connect with local PCPs. just to make sure they're aware about us and our services. We have a longer standing relationship with Western pediatrics and many residents of the three towns we serve. you know. are seen there. so they know about us. But there are others who have become more familiar Framingham peds and others. a couple providers in in Wayland as well. So that's good to see that that primary care providers of kids are referring to us and staying connected to us as well. and certainly. as we train new staff and social work fellows and postdoc fellows. we make sure that they're reaching back out to those pediatricians or primary care offices with permission. of course. from the patients. just to coordinate care in an ongoing way. and we gather the information about who their primary care provider is right at the beginning. when they're when they're signing registration paperwork and getting getting up and going in treatment. So I think that was the. one of the main. you know. pieces of data that Michelle was interested in. and then also just getting a sense of the total number of Wayland residents and scene versus just new intakes. We used to just report on that and then yes. the specific consultations happening year to year. I think Julia. that was mostly the data that we added
to mentioned it. I had another question when Sure so from referral to appointment time. what's that access like? That's a great question. So usually we are we have an intake meeting on Thursdays every week. and if a case is assigned. they're going to hear from that clinician. We really require that that clinician. that the case has been assigned. to get in touch with the individual or family the next day. because our goal is that that individual would be seen the following week. right? So it's a Thursday. they're. you know. likely we've assigned them to a time that the clinician has given to us as available when we make the match. But usually those aren't going to be Friday. even if the case is assigned Friday. So I would say the longest number of business days would be six. right? If it's if a Friday was looked for and they were going to be given that time the following Friday. but assuming no other scheduling issues get in the way it would be seen the following week. Yeah. So you know. between two and six business days they should be seen. That being said. I can get you the exact answer now that we have an electronic health record system. and it's likely that the average would show a longer amount of time. And of course. just the way averages work. That's because. you know. sometimes the clinician will call the next day after case is assigned. And of course. the child or adolescent has something in place. you know. an activity or something that following week. at a time that they had told the intake team they do have available and will it just gets pushed out. So I often find that it's easier to kind of explain our system than state what our electronic record system would say is the average. But certainly. if you're interested in what that says. I'm happy to get that data. But if there are no other scheduling issues. we're if we're assigning the case that clinician has the availability the following week in their schedule to see the person. Thank you. and I should say. maybe you asked about first contact. So we assigned cases on Thursday. if a Wayland resident calls hrs. they're going to get a call back from a member of the intake team within 24 hours of their call. Um. and that's we know during business hours. So we don't our phone is answered all the time. because we have an answering service on on the weekends in case there's something urgent clinically going on. but if it's during the weekly call back within 24 hours. and then a senior clinician on the intake team will take information and present the case at the intake meeting that occurs once a week on Thursdays. So again. it's variable based on the day that somebody calls. but a resident will always get a call back from one of those people within 24 hours of calling initially. So that's the other variable that can sort of depending on the day that they call and how many days until the intake meeting. It's can consider change. You know. how quickly the turnaround happens in terms of first visit. But one of the benefits of having senior clinicians staff the intake team. is that they're also in gathering information about what a resident is looking for in terms of treatment. They're also assessing. you know. acuity and whether or not there would be any problem waiting until that first appointment. So they're not going to have somebody who's in great distress. And really. you know. their sense is that they won't be able to function well until that next appointment. They're not just going to say. just sit tight. There are clinicians. and are also going to figure out how to get the resident what they need in the interim so they would only be waiting for an appointment if that was clinically appropriate to do. So.
I just had a question on. Looks like it's page two. I'm just trying to figure out. you know. where you talk about FY 25 clinical hours to town residents. non school. But then below that. you know the hours are referencing counseling to children and families. So the non school language. and I should take that out. but remember last year when we were talking about kind of the origin of the contract with the Wayland Board of Health and the work that we did in schools. Initially. when the contract was created. we were helping the Wayland school in part. we were doing some outpatient work. but we were also helping Wayland. the Wayland public school system service. IEPs. particularly the counseling goals written into IEPs because the school district didn't have enough counseling staff to service all of the counseling needs within Student IEPs that existed. So some of this funding helped to support that. So I'm a clinician at hrs. for example. if I got assigned a Wayland school case. that's what we would call it. Then that would mean that I would be meeting with a child who attends the Wayland public school. you know. weekly for counseling. I wouldn't be with them in the summer. because. again. the counseling need was written into their individualized education plan. and I was servicing that need for the district that those sort of school based counseling hours being covered within this contract ended. you know. I think over 10 years ago now. and we encouraged that piece of the work to end. School districts have hired more clinical staff now. It's better to have those counseling needs met by an in house clinician. In House meeting within the school district they can better coordinate the care. That's just the model that school districts have adopted. So it certainly makes more sense for a kid to be seen on an outpatient basis at hrs if a clinical need arises and they're referred. usually schools think you know of referring kids who don't just need counseling support to get through the school day or be functioning in school. but they could really benefit from talking to someone outside of school. So we haven't done any of those in school hours in a long time. but. but I think that language was sort of written into the report template. really. to differentiate between outpatient clinical hours done at hrs to provide therapy for Wayland residents and the School Based counseling hours that we provided historically. But we're kind of counseling hours to service kids IEPs. Does that clarify? I think so. I just. and I remember we talked about that before it was just. you know. mainly trying to identify. you know
Julia Junghanns: how people are getting note. how people are aware of your services. And you know is that generally. through the school system and different relationships. you know at the school that are through your services that are provided. Unknown: Potentially. yes. certainly. So you know. the vast majority of referrals to us came through the public school district this past fiscal year. but there are other residents who you know. family. friends. neighbors. things like that. You know. other folks in the community who have sought services. Do you know refer some residents. And as I said. we did some marketing work with the senior centers in all of the towns and and they referred a couple of patients. So. so. and then. you know. also PC piece in the area as well. So. but again. the vast majority of people refer to us came through the public school district.
Quiet buddy.
yeah. non school. It's just old language to differentiate between just traditional outpatient clinical hours. and I'll be
done in just a couple minutes. Couple minutes. Five minutes. What time are you holding down? What time are you going? Five minutes. Okay. thank you. Oh. how long is time? How many minutes do we have. like this. like this thing? How many minutes do we have now? How many one second. I'm gonna bring him out there anyway.
You know. one of the basis is the questions that we have before to try and identify. you know. how people know their services outside of the school center? Yeah. and. you know. I think she explained that they have done some. you know. informational. I don't know exactly. some type of outreach. I think. to. you know. Senior Center. but it seems like. you know. I'm not. The school is still. you know. really the part where it says non school in life. that to me. just just a little bit hard to grasp that I'd like to remove that from this. because it doesn't really match up with what's actually. all right. sorry about that. No. that's okay. Um. I was just trying to figure out. you know. when people look at the support. how they. you know. look at that section and feel like it's services that are not being provided to the schools. And I understand what you're explaining to us. which makes sense. because I know we've talked about that before. but it seems like the report should probably be a little different. you know. in the way it's described. I would think. you know. updating the language. Maybe just update the language a little bit so that it's. I
Julia Junghanns: don't know exactly what the language should be. but. you know. non school. to me. is sort of misleading. because it is school work that's being done for families in the school system. Unknown: No. it's not. That's not what that that section means. So I think perhaps removing non school will help clinical hours to town residents. The 1100 92 is clinical hours of outpatient therapeutic services provided to Wayland residents. period. nothing to do with school. That's just outpatient clinical services provided consultation hours to school staff. Consultation is another service we provide and for all of the towns that we serve West and Wayland and Wellesley. We do consultation work with folks in the school administrators. principals. vice principals. the guidance team. special educators. etc. to help support the work that they do. We provide a unique clinical perspective as outpatient providers. but are also very familiar with the school system and can help them think about difficult cases in a new way. family systems issues in a new way. That's just the 30 hours that we did. So if you see in the school services section. so general services. maybe. if you look at that section. general non school services. the counseling to children and families. 1100 92 that's clinical hours provided to Wayland residents. nothing to do with school and similarly. the intake and referral services the 51 hours that's work that our intake team is doing with Wayland residents across the lifespan who are seeking mental health treatment. the school services that we have. Provider. just the consultation. and then we didn't do any last year. but any urgent psychiatric evaluations.
Julia Junghanns: I think we're maybe talking about two different things. because I'm looking at it from a different a different perspective. potentially. where are people finding out about hrs? Are they finding out about hrs in the school setting. not necessarily related to any IEP in the school? That's what I'm sort of. you know. right? Unknown: So you're on. you're wondering about the referral source data. So if you look at the last page. the chart on the last page. referral source data is. at least for anybody who accessed care through us. You're wanting to know how they found out about us. And so in 28 of the cases. someone within the school district at some level. Sorry. the last page. If there are four pages in the report. I believe it's on page four and then it's in the right hand column. Referral source.
Okay. looks like it's clear. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go right ahead. Continue. please. Oh. that's okay. So. so this is just a new section of data that we added to the report this past fiscal year because Michelle was curious about just your question. Julia. where are people? Where are people who are presenting for treatment at hrs. finding out about hrs. And in 28 it was the cases the the school district. Someone in the school district told them about us. Six of the cases. they found out about us through a primary care provider. Five through a friend or community for family member. And then. you know. in 12 cases. they self refer. meaning that's just what they indicated. right? So this data is a little bit complicated to get. You know. I wouldn't. I think it's. it's helpful in some ways. But again. individuals who are presenting to treatment. we can ask them. sort of for this information. how did you learn about us? And then the data is. what is it? Some may choose not to give us that information. but those that did gave us the information in this section.
And as I said. just as we expected. there are a large amount of people who find out about us through the public school district. If you think about families within the district who have children. They could be presenting to hrs for couples. treatment parent guidance. you know. treatment for themselves. but learn about a community health agency through the school district at some point. whether it's back to school night. something like that. So we imagined before even presenting this referral source data. that many of the referrals came somehow through the school district. But as you can see. there are the senior center PCPs in the community. friends family also referred Wayland residents to hrs as well. Am I better answering your question now about sort of how people learn about hrs and our services? Yes. that is helpful. Okay.
I asked one more question. Sorry. So if you had 52 unique clients in fiscal year. 2025 what was the number for 2024 Do you know? I'm just wondering if it's typical. the hours that were the clinical hours. if that's like typical. because. if you like. just. do I just divide the number of hours by the number of people. which probably isn't like accurate. is like 23 hours? Is that kind of typical in a year? You know? So that services? Yes. I mean. certainly there is no real typical. you know. So exactly. you can't really divide it and get a sense of what is average. but because we work with children and families. it is longer term work. We're not doing short term work for the most part. Some people may come for five to 10 sessions and feel better and move along. But you know. when we're working with children. if you get a new child case. the evaluation alone is between three and five sessions. because you're meeting with parents initially. then meeting with the child for three to five sessions. and then having parents back to give some feedback and make a treatment plan from there. So the number of sessions. certainly. you know. is greater. I would say overall for a child case. So you were asking the number of unique Wayland residents that were seen in FY 24 overall. And I can pull that up just from last year's report. Really quickly. It's. it's. I believe this year's is higher than last year's. you know. in that category as well. given that would be my guess anyway. that. given that the clinical hours are up. but it sounds like you're wondering about sort of average number of sessions that an individual is in treatment overall. And if that's possible to determine. or if this is sort of a normal number of sessions for that number of residents. yes. yeah. So I think that the number of clinical hours being up does correlate with us being able to serve more residents than we did last fiscal year and the fiscal year prior. Certainly I don't think it's always that correlation is not always. you know. completely straight line. because it depends on the type of treatment needed. age of the client. etc. But there will be a correlation between those two numbers the vast majority of the time. and I'll just look and see if I can get that quickly. The total number of unique clients from last year's report is I think
what I just found is the number of new cases assigned in FY 24
which was 17 in 24 compared to 31 this year. So that was certainly up as well. And I'll
look right now and continue. Can take other questions as I do this. if there are any. I
think that's. I think that's great that you take the time and go through set multiple sessions to talk to parents and everything. I think that's like. that's awesome instead of or like. Yeah. that's really great that taking the time to go through multiple sessions. I'm glad you think so. Yeah. certainly it feels like best practice to us and working with kids and families and well. it's going to result in more visit. It's. I personally would never begin treatment with a child without doing a thorough. you know. history. gathering a full history from parents. understanding their concerns. And then also. even after. you know. you need to meet with a child. I would say at least three times to you know. even get a sense of who they are and whether continuing on in therapy will be useful for the child. I always like to reach out to any school providers during that initial evaluation who might be involved as well. You just need to gather all that data at first so it can't happen.
I'm any other questions.
Thank you so much for your time. Yes. I'm not finding that figure. I my guess is that the number is high 30s or in the 40s of total unique residency in last year. if the number of new cases was 17. I think we just started reporting some of this new data within this fiscal year and maybe in the mid year report from last year that I could probably find as well. anyway. But yeah. that's my guess. So certainly that number was lower last year as well the total number of residents seen within the year. given this account. thank you. Lindsay. we appreciate your Absolutely. Yes. Thank you very much for the support from the board. It's really critical to the work we do and to make sure that all Wayland residents you know can have their mental health needs serve. regardless of their ability to pay. I think is really critical and valuable to the community. So thank you for supporting the work that we do in the way that you do. and if other questions come up. don't hesitate to reach out. Happy to come back. hopefully next time in person. Thanks for tolerating my son's questions about mid Yeah. Appreciate it. Okay. thanks. everybody. That's
not five minutes. How many is five minutes?
So I don't know if everyone had a chance to look at the annual report. but I printed out a copy of it. just a case that we can it's a draft. obviously. this is the full report
for the whole department. We're still working on gathering some information. but it's. there's quite a bit of it that's already done. The nursing section is not done yet. So there's a few things that would be added. But in general. it's. you know. similar to prior years.
See if anything's our septic permits are up from the past couple of years. We went from 109 to 116 in FY 25 well testing was up a little bit
new construction. I
Not as many title fives. but it's hard to track those. because. you know. when we do a permit. it's good for a few years. So people may not actually do that work in the same year that they pull apartment. So you know. it runs over a few years. so you can sort of see the trends for the past few years for any
septic comments.
But we are up on building approval reviews. We had 280 this year and last year we had 207 uh.
So we're so we're the volume is sort of slowly increasing. I mean. that's what the numbers show for this fiscal year. I mean. we still have some time to go for our preliminary numbers for FY 26 I don't know where we're at right now. you know. But FY 25 ends. you know. So it starts on July one. and it's confusing. It starts on July one of 24 and runs to June 30 of 25 so it's a little bit. you know. you have to kind of go back in time to remember what we did at that time. Um. but in the in the end. it works out. you know. So now we're in the next fiscal year. I don't know how it lines up with. you know. where We're at with numbers to compare with preliminary but I
the areas in red we're still working on. but some of it is our Communicable Disease Information. and some of it is. you know. the public health nursing section. Um
hrs is not in here yet because I did not have their report last week when I was updating this. Um.
some of our large projects. Charena Farms subdivision. Veritas Christian Academy development project. Saint Anne's 40 bean development. did you see the new one? Which one was that? And race road? Oh. that's going to be. yeah. we're. we're just sort of hearing about that. but we will. I mean. that's huge. That's a huge project. But Darren. I believe. did soil testing up there recently the Coptic charge. yeah. there were plans online somewhere that I saw. yeah. so that'll be another. you know. those large projects can be very time consuming for us to look at the septic design plans. and when they want to phase it too. they're going to right? So another complicated. phased project where there'll be pressure dosing. mounting calculations. probably a hydro geo review. which potentially could also be for the high school septic system. You know. some of those things we can look at. but we generally don't look at hyper geo reviews. And so we'll have to probably have a consultant look at some of those components. but they can be time consuming. especially if they're a Phase project
that the the church that's on rice Road. yes. the Coptic Jonathan Storer: Church. it's. it's kind of residences in Unknown: it too. So the church is getting demolished. Jonathan Storer: or in phases. They're going to build a new church before they take down the old one.
Unknown: Yeah. I think they they have a fin recently. Yes. they did. because I remember. Were hearing about something recently. Julia Junghanns: We've been talking about it at. you know. just land use meetings with town staff. Just initially. they had come in and explained what they were planning on. And then. you know. we talk about it again. And then we hear about. you know. different phases the project. when they're going to other. you know. like site plan review or zba. I can't remember which one they may have been at recently. but they haven't made it to us yet. but we did do soil testing. Jonathan Storer: So what struck me is they were utilizing every bit of that piece of property. yeah. yeah. between parking lot or athletic court or housing or whatever it was all. Unknown: Yeah. that'll be very busy and on rice road. I
anything in red is the old stuff from last year. so it has to be. I mean. I think we've done a lot. so we'll be fine with meeting the deadline of September 30. but they would tell you that if you don't submit your annual report. your board Beat this man disbanded. which is pretty extreme. We've always submitted it useless to say it
oh and China rose got the sushi. So that is going to go specs. yeah. actually. they did hire a consultant. and they went through that process. I guess I should. I haven't talked more about recently. but I will find Out.
Jonathan Storer: What has Veritas been doing lately is that just charging along. or I haven't heard or read anything Unknown: recently. they were working on building permit reviews.
Jonathan Storer: That's the last time they got all through conservation.
Unknown: I don't know if they have a comment with them. does it conservation just take so long? So yeah. sure. they've actually completed their process. yeah. with conservation. But if they're working on the building application. I would think they have something.
Wow. So at the end of the report. we've got an FY. well. that should be FY 26 FY 26 focus areas. These are just things that you know we're continuing. that we're still working on. I don't know if the board has any feedback or thoughts about areas that the board might feel important or of interest to focus on. In addition to some of these things that I have already plugged in.
we do feel like it's a very important goal to get our Building reviews and eventually our septic reviews respond. open. go.
although we have a new IT director. which isn't good. but the one of the IT staff recently resigned. so that'll be difficult. But you know. things happen. People leave. and I'm sure that we will find someone. but it might be a little cumbersome to pick up where we left off. which. you know. we were making some good progression on that. but we're very eager to get our building reviews on Open Gov. You know. we feel like it will be a really good move to have. you know. a more streamlined process for residents in the application process. and so we're anticipating that happening. And then. you know. we'll work on septic reviews. But that's. you know. that's down pike. I mean. I think the building part would be most of interest to people you know. that are. I think it's a bit of a struggle to get through that process. It's a little disjointed right now. where it's. you know. some is on open go. some isn't some paper. some is online. So. you know. I look forward to seeing that get all opened up. Jonathan Storer: And have you found anyone to replace Michelle? Yet Unknown: we have. which is great news. We went through some interviews with some really good applicants. And you know. we had two rounds of interviews. Heather joined us. myself. the HR director and Heather. and we expect Laura Carter to start with us on September 22 she's coming from a job where she has a job share between Concord and Maynard as the public health nurse. and she's a nurse practitioner. We're very excited. and think she'll be great fit. So as in frantically working on some logistics and planning for flu clinics Julia Junghanns: and. you know. just getting some dates set. you know. the locations and the times and strategizing some staffing and whatnot. On. So when she walks in here. there's some work that's already done. because it's going to be busy. We have vaccine already. so people are calling about clinics. and we have flu vaccine. and we have Unknown: high dose and regular we will be getting some covid vaccine as well. So we'll do some covid clinics. but not right away. because. like. here. make it a little crazy. but we can. We'll work on that too. So. but yes. I'm very excited. It's been a little stressful. Jonathan Storer: Well. you've been wearing multiple hats for a little bit. Julia Junghanns: yeah. I mean. it's. you know. plus anticipating. you know. what happens if we don't have someone and. I mean. I felt like we would. because we had some really good candidates. and. you know. I felt like. you know. we would get someone in here. So that was good part. but then going through that process. it always takes longer than you expect. you know. and and HR really did help us along. but it just always. you know. people on vacation. or you know this or that. and people have to get give notice. You know. I mean. it's a process so.
Unknown: but finally.
does she want to come meet us? Or. yeah. I am sure she will.
So didn't skip a little bit over here. but
that's. you know. basically the update on flu clinic planning. The two dates that we have are October 15 and October 22 three to 7pm
you know. we like to have a couple on Wednesdays. because those are the early release days for school. and that way we can try to capture Julia Junghanns: kids and families where we can the 15th is probably going to be the senior clinic we haven't you sent out any registration or sign ups yet that will be coming. You know. we have to get the because Unknown: it's all online now. You know. you register online. and so once we have those registration links ready. we will do some advertising. But those are the two clinics that we've set up so far. which will be in this room in the town building and so
On. budget updates.
Tom is very. very closely looking at the budget for FY 27 and they also already looked at our non salary budget. Everyone's not just us. everyone's non salary budget to see where you can shave out. you know. some costs that potentially could be cut from our budget. And so we've done that. We haven't heard Julia Junghanns: about formal budget planning. I think they're having some big meetings about how to approach these concerns for an override. And you know. there's a proposal that I think the Select Board is reviewing. I don't know if they're reviewing that tonight. I think there have any hearing on property on West plain street. So
Unknown: there were some proposals that I think were being provided by the town manager and the finance director. and so they're looking for some direction from the Select Board on which way to go and whether they need to go to ask for override from Tom meeting next spring. So that's that. That's what's going on there. It's. I don't know exactly what will happen. but we'll see. I'll keep everyone in the loop of any new information I have. Heather. our school nurse leader. is. has been. you know. working on the. you know. preschool meetings with the school nurses. and we've been in touch. you know. a number of times she's been handling all that. So very thankful for all of her help getting everyone ready. To start the school year. and. you know. they're in full swing now. That was a couple weeks ago. So very thankful that. you know. she was able to step in and and handle that without any. you know. big bumps in the road. I haven't heard of any. anything crazy going on. I'm just going to knock on the table. but
mosquito surveillance. excuse me. We did have testing done last week. and there were no positives. They are doing testing again. today or tomorrow. it is possible we could have a positive mosquito for West Nile. At this point. the populations are much lower than they were because it's been so cool at night. and so I don't know that there would be any need to have additional measures taken. as far as. like. you know. considering canceling programs or things like that. This time of year. if it's cool at night. the populations really start plummeting. And when I say that. I mean of the mosquitoes themselves and their activity. they're much slower moving. Julia Junghanns: Warm days. they're still out there. There's no There's no obliteration of all mosquitoes at this point. You know that would be after the first heavy cross. but people should still be. you know. protecting themselves using bug spray. and you know. trying to avoid peak mosquito hours. especially you know. senior citizens or people with immunocompromised systems Unknown: underlying health issues. potentially. you know. West Nile could be a risk for those those populations. but we will find out more when I get results back from our mosquito control project. which hopefully will be maybe tomorrow. maybe Wednesday or Thursday. but that will be probably the last time they do testing this year.
Are they testing for West Nile and Tripoli? So they they look at the populations and the types of mosquitoes. So if they found they do have some light traps. which would be where they would find mosquitoes that could potentially carry Tripoli. Um.
Julia Junghanns: I know that it's much. much less likely here. because we don't have Cedar swamps. but I know they're looking at what types of mosquitoes they find. So I can ask Laura about that when they do their next testing. But typically. the mosquitoes that would carry that disease would be a certain species. So they would. you know. look at what the trap collects. and determine if there was any mosquitoes that could potentially be carrying that he didn't mention that. But I can ask. you know. out of you know. knowledge. you know. we don't get an actual print out of a report. So it's like. you know. it's basically. um. whether there's positives or not. And then sometimes the mosquito. some species. they will tell us that. oh. there's a lot of these types of species. so maybe we'll test for that. so that type of thing. So. but I can ask more about that. It's interesting to know. you know.
Jonathan Storer: where are the closest cedar swamps. Unknown: Sudbury.
Jonathan Storer: And do you know what kind of mosquitoes carry? Unknown: Tripoli I do. although I haven't heard this season. and I think it might be off the radar for a lot of towns. because we haven't really heard of of that many problems with Tripoli being carried in mosquitoes to see Jonathan Storer: Asian tiger mosquito or which one carries Unknown: don't think it's that mosquito. It's you'll see it in Melena is one of them. Jonathan Storer: I just. I don't. didn't have any idea how far they travel. and I Googled it. It Some don't travel Unknown: very far that we put right on the route 20 corner. and they stay over there. Yeah. no. it is possible. you know. because obviously mosquitoes travel and and Jonathan Storer: they sometimes ride the wind. is what? Yes. Google says. that's for sure. Julia Junghanns: They do. Do. and so. you know. but there's a lot of science involved with it too. that I probably am not aware of right now as to potentially why this. you know. is happening where we're seeing more West Nile than triple E mosquitoes carry. you know. plus we've had West Nile cases in humans. and so that elevates it who are at a high risk right now. for for West Nile. although. as I mentioned. as the nights cool. it becomes. you know. less concerning. I mean. it's still a risk where people should. you know. put back on protect themselves. but
Unknown: the populations start really going down. but. you know. people are still outside and should wear bug spray long sleeves. you know. spray deed. all over again. spray deed is the best thing that is. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons not to UD use deed. but it is good to prevent mosquitoes. you know. so lots of garlic. you know. staying away from areas where there's a lot of foliage. where the mosquito sort of gather. and swampy wetland areas. Things like that. especially at dusk or early morning. Um. the update on 195 main street at the old DEP W site.
Julia Junghanns: They are doing a little bit more work. I did watch the last meeting that they had. and the PFAS numbers were even higher from additional testing that they had done in the groundwater monitoring wells. and so they were going to look more closely towards where the septic system leach field is at the Middle School as a potential suspect source for PFAS. So that's being still looked at. I'm not sure where that's going to go. because. according to Unknown: Ben Gould. it's not something that is really fixable by digging the soil out. Julia Junghanns: You know. I don't know exactly what the solution would be. But I think you know this. the town will still have to do something to satisfy the state's non compliance letter for having this PFAS in water. in in the zone too. So that's. that's basically what's going on. I don't have anything new on that
Unknown: 10 short drive we are. We did have information coming from someone regarding concerning housing conditions. and so we're going to initiate an inspection at the property. Initially. it's. you know. basically requesting an inspection. So I will let the board know how that goes and what happens next.
General business. Oh. there was the MWRA connection. I had shared the letter that went out in the end of August regarding the emergency connection to the MWRA. I don't know exactly where that stands as of today. as far as the repair of piping at the happy follow wells So. but the good news is we had the ability to connect and use the butter from MWRA. Um. general business. Oh. one more thing. We do have some events coming up that are part of National Recovery Month. There's a whole calendar of events that was put together by Olivia do for who is our regional substance use prevention coordinator. and each town in our seven town collaborate. Collaborative has. you know. different events going on. and so this. I believe. is on the town's website. where each day there's something going on. And we also have a survey. which is to help us under understand what potentially the opioid needs are in our community. It's. you know. easy to take the survey by a link on this handout. This was also put together by a. Olivia do for who has been doing a great job. you know. on prevention work. and this was. you know. one of the things that they wanted to try and identify what people think the needs are in each community out of our seven Tom collaborative. yeah.
general business. there's a stack of bills. which we apologize for. Patty had gotten behind with vacations and things like that. So if there's any questions. please let me know I'm happy to answer them. Or you could always stop in if you wanted to. you know. in the office. And then we do have one set of minutes that are ready. May 12. Did everyone have a chance to look at them. or have a copy here? Okay. so then we would just need to someone would need to make a motion to approve the minutes. a motion to approve the minutes from May 12. Yes. I second the motion.
What do we do now? Need to take a vote. yeah. and I
don't remember what we say. So basically. you know each person votes. and you go around asking each person if they vote yes. Jonathan Storer: Okay. Genevieve and on. do you vote yes? Or how do you vote yes? Brent mortis. Unknown: yes. Jonathan Storer: Katie step. yeah. And John story. yes. Unknown: excellent. Thank you.
We don't have June. but we're working on that. so that should be ready next
time I thought you were gonna say. I know you know. you just That's right. I forgot Robert. Yeah.
any other questions or concerns or I will definitely bring Laura in to one of our board meetings so you can meet her and welcome her to Wayland. and you know she'll be working with Heather Yates and our fabulous nursing team that we have that's been running smoothly as you know. so far this school year. which is very happy about. yeah. isn't there something else you want to announce? What I
Jonathan Storer: don't know? I just noticed something Unknown: that I got engaged. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. thank you. Couple weeks ago. few weeks ago. thank you.
So I mean. I don't think there's anything else someone needs to make a motion to close. I make a motion to close the meeting.
Second. just go around again. Jonathan Storer: Jen. you have an on? Yes? John store. yes.
Unknown: Brett mortis. yes. Katie stuff. yeah. great. Thank you. All right. if you.
We have a public comment first. one way online. and I'll Lindsay is going to join us as a part of the agenda at seven o'clock. Jonathan Storer: So they're not don't see any public comment online. Unknown: Okay? So. Abby. do you have public money? Abigail Charest: Sure. Should I go now or Well. no. you're part Unknown: of the agenda. Okay. yep. so we're ready to get started with the with the first agenda Jonathan Storer: item. No. it's first agenda is review and comment on subject design plans for Wayland High School. Drafted by is it? Ty Tyne bond with guest town engineer. Abby Charest. Abigail Charest: Hi. how are you? You can Unknown: come up a little closer. because sometimes it's hard to get
Abigail Charest: well. I hope to be a little bit farther along on this project. But the engineer that I usually work with has appendix burst. and he's been in the hospital. so we're a little bit farther behind than I had wanted to be. but we did get out into the field and did some test bits and do the soil evaluation test with Darren. and we have those results on the top of The third page here. talking about design standards for the leach fields and how much we'll have to have the additional reserve areas associated. But again. so we're still looking at the high school treatment plant. It's been offline for a long time. When we looked at the flows. they were lower than 10.000 gallons a day. So we've been looking at designing something under Title Five. It is in the zone two. so we'd have to do some additional nitrogen removal. which means we need an IA system. We've looked at a couple of IA systems. We looked at an and Nitro. But because we had so many more examples of the amphidrome system being used in schools. we felt like That was the best one to go with. We felt that some of the operations difficulties with the treatment plant previously were due to those variable flows from the school. and that. since am for drum could demonstrate more of a background with the schools. we felt more comfortable with that technology. I did text in since we just were chatting in the office. we're a little bit concerned about the probability of finding someone Unknown: to do O and M operation in MA. Operation. oh. sorry. Abigail Charest: Operation. operation maintenance. because these types of systems are often used on the cape because they are specific to nitrogen sensitive areas. But White Water has people. and there is a company called Unknown: Lewis. Oh. okay. Abigail Charest: so there's. there's some people around. So we'll be continuing to look at that and get you. you know. further design drawings and specifications. So I just want to give you an update. let you know that still working on this. and see if you have any questions so far. Also. just to say that please think about how you want to go through review and design of this. It if this was a treatment plant. we have previously been out requests for qualifications and gotten engineering firms. and that's why we use tie and bond. That's how we found them. So if this was a treatment plant. we would just go out to bid for construction. Uh. on this with the time bond design. with having me reviewed it. um. but since it's going through the board here. you guys would be normally send it out for additional review. You just think about if the town has had me review it and time bond design. and if you want to send Julia Junghanns: it. that would be for. like. an example of a peer review we've had done on some other projects recently. for for some larger systems where some of the dosing might be looked at. or mounting calculations and things like that that we would typically have another set of eyes look at. you know. from a peer review consultant sometimes. and then staff. I mean. we do the review in house. And then. you know. the board has been involved with this design. because we're changing from. you know. having the wastewater facility on site to the conventional system with alternative technology. So. you know. typically for residential projects. the board isn't typically involved. but because of those intricacies of this change where we have been involved. because there's a variance. you know. to use those different flow so. so that's. you know. part of but staff would also be reviewed with a design and feedback.
Unknown: So we usually would send it out for additional review. depending on. you know. what we end up with for Abigail Charest: flow them. so 8000 gallons. Yeah. on the other hand. this is a town project. so the town's already paid for the design. And to have. as opposed to having. like a commercial development come in with something. then you want to have that with you. Unknown: so we almost wouldn't need to. in this case. just because you've already. sort of. Abigail Charest: it's been through the town engineer as Unknown: well. which is you. but do you do septic design reviews? Abigail Charest: I mean. I have. you Unknown: have. yeah. okay. yeah. because I didn't know if you had the like for pressure dosing or mounding. or any of those types Abigail Charest: of things. More specifically than we're looking at the technologies and goals of the IA systems. yeah. and working with full towns to do. like a comprehensive stuff. Unknown: once we get a little further on. we'll have. you know. better idea for. you know. if there was additional review needed. you know. if we felt like we wanted that. but we'll work together. Jonathan Storer: And then. after it's built. is there testing to make sure that we meet the requirements for
Abigail Charest: nitrogen the there's operation and maintenance Julia Junghanns: of it. It depends which approval is is used for the and we're not sure which approval is used yet. We did. you know. Darren. I took a quick look at it. because each technology has different types of approvals that change all the time. So once we have an idea which one is being used. then there's a whole set of different rules and parameters for testing and whatnot that we would look at to figure out what would be needed for the long term O and M operation and maintenance.
Unknown: We haven't seen new amped around go in in quite some time. So. you know. it's something that we would look at. I mean. we will get all of them when they come through. But for a system this size. it might be new territory for us. You know. what's at the middle school? The Middle School. I think is a bio clear. okay. that's right. yeah. Abigail Charest: yes. I asked them to look at that as I my initial assumption would be that I would rather have a consistent technology throughout town. but time Bond did not.
Unknown: Why did they have a reason why this passed towards their mental Jonathan Storer: system? I'll find there's a large system for an assisted living housing development in Carlisle that's they've been dealing with nitrogen problems for the last couple of years. And I'll find out what the system Unknown: is. So it's not meeting the parameter correct. Jonathan Storer: and the they must have test or somewhere in the leaching field. and it's all. it's always coming up too high. Oh. wow. Okay. so once it's built. it's pretty expensive to try to. Unknown: right? Yeah. And. Abigail Charest: Yeah. luckily. the soils were pretty good out there. Sandy. It was a little bit of fill at the top that we have to pick out and remove a buck Jonathan Storer: once we got what is the I haven't walked over there. What is the land there now? Is it just open space? Is it woods or Abigail Charest: it's open space? There is sort of a hill area that the leaching fields are on. and then it kind of slopes down to baseball field. and then the football practice field. And as you go towards the football practice the groundwater gets higher and higher. but we're able to position this up on that mounted area. Jonathan Storer: And will the land be able to be utilized for anything after the fields are in. Abigail Charest: um. nothing that you could build on. but kids would be able to run around on Jonathan Storer: it. yep. okay. I didn't know how what it's going to be peppered with test pits or. you know. the spots that you can test. or what it would look like. Abigail Charest: I think they use it for frisbee. Ultimate Frisbee first to golf. yeah. Jonathan Storer: because it's not flat. yeah.
Unknown: yeah. that's so that's important regarding the nitrogen removal. because it is so close to the town wells. you know. So I'm sure that Ty and bond will be looking at that closely. yeah. to figure out what the best I mean. they're saying. yeah. good. wrong at this point. So yeah. Jonathan Storer: then maybe any system. I mean. do you when you purchase a system like that. Is it based on your gallons per day. and is it. is it that you err on the to be a little larger versus. yeah. and could systems be expanded if they needed to be okay? So it depends Abigail Charest: on the system. I don't know if an extended. but I'll look into that. But usually you err on the side of making sure you can cover up peak flows. although the Title Five is usually the peak flows. And then some of the systems can also be expanded. or additional filters can be added. I mean. Jonathan Storer: with these systems. that's really the pre treatment is going to be the secret. That's right. it's in its success.
Unknown: So probably maybe the next month or so. Abigail Charest: we'll hear from you again. Yeah. they're saying that we'll submit something by the day. Oh. okay. yeah. is there Unknown: like a deadline that you're trying Abigail Charest: to meet? I would like to start construction after baseball season.
Unknown: Are they? Oh. because it's right next to the baseball field. So then. just out of curiosity. I might be getting hit. But yeah. what will happen to the wastewater units that are in the building and any components that have been Abigail Charest: we'll need to use some of the electricity and some of the wiring for the instrumentation. but we'll also do some demo inside that building and take out some of the and we actually will have to wait until after July 1 together. position to go um. right after that. and trying to timeline the construction so that we're doing the fields in the summer. And if we have to do some of the treatment by the treatment plant. we can do that rather than McCall that we just start. I don't
Jonathan Storer: remember what type of leaching field will it be? Is it just like a big stone in black bed? Or. yeah. yes. it would Unknown: be pressure desk. right? This one. yes. because of the gallons per day I would. I believe it has. right. yeah. but it would still be. well. it's pressure. dose. Abigail Charest: it's pressure. yeah. yeah. show it. yeah. a little horse man over here. Yeah?
It's dose for another reason to like to have multiple reasons. Finally. they've seen it made it it's also Unknown: uphill. right? Sure that makes sense. I
Awesome. That's up there. I think thank you very happy.
We are a few minutes early. I don't know if you want to
go over some of the health director updates. We do have Lindsay here. but I don't know if she's sound prepared. or you should just stick to the seven o'clock time. Maybe
I could talk about mosquitoes from the health director on the Oh. she hasn't helped see that.
Hi. Lindsay. hi. How are you? I don't know. I don't camera option. For some reason I can see all of you and I'm here. But okay. I just found the link on the website Julia. so I don't know if there's a different link. I need to participate via video.
That was probably my fault. No. no. it's fine. I mean. I see the meeting link. but I don't know. Do
promote to panelist. Can you do that? Oh. yeah. did it work?
It says she'll be rejoining. Okay. yes. here I am. Okay. Oh. perfect. You're Hired. right? All right. we just get rid of that little box. Perfect. Thank you.
All right. okay. great. sorry to not be able to be in person. Well. thanks for joining. Yeah. we do appreciate it. Yes. absolutely. absolutely and again. apologies I couldn't be there in person. juggling kids schedules and all the things in the evening. but happy to be here and Julie. I figured I'd just go over the annual report. and certainly I'm happy to answer any questions that folks have. That's great. I'm just going to hand out a fresh coffee so everyone has it great. sure. So for those of who I haven't met. I'm Lindsay steinstep. the executive director at hrs Human Relations Service. the community mental health agency that serves West and Wayland and Wellesley. And I thought I would just review our FY 25 year and then again. answer any questions you all have. Our visits for Wayland residents were up this past year fairly significantly. We did just over 1100 clinical hours for Wayland residents. And I should back up and say. we see. you know. children all the way through. seniors in the community. and actually have recently made a push to ensure that seniors in all three of the towns that we serve are aware that we take Medicare and. you know. welcome them to access services through us as well. And I think some of that marketing has been useful because we've gotten sort of an influx of intakes from the senior community. which is great. but certainly. you know. most of our referrals come through the public school system or other residents who use services at hrs before. So the visit count was up from FY 24 and FY 24 just to go back. we did 864 clinical visits. So again. fy 25 we did 11 192 we did 30 consultation hours to the public school to sort of small groups or individuals within the public school system. I do some of those. My colleague. Alan Wyatt does some of those. And then Dr Luke Baker sirode Does some of the consultations as well. and certainly we're available to add. subtract. change consultation schedule as needed throughout the year. So many. some of you may remember that in years past. if there's been a tragic loss in a school community or something like that. we're always happy to come and support a school community. Or administrator as the need arises. But these consultations that I'm reviewing now. the 30 we did in FY 25 are just sort of our standard consultations that that we continue to do year to year. and in terms of our intake program. just in general. we had 31 new Wayland resident clients in FY 25 and then 52 sort of unique clients all together. So the difference there being that the 52 includes clients who have been at hrs for more than a year. So for example. children. you know. often we're doing long term work. generally. But kids. adolescents. may have seen the same therapist from FY 24 into FY 25 but we did 31 new intakes for Wayland residents in FY 2510 of those were kids under the age of 1112. Of them were between the ages of 12 and 18. and then nine of them were 19 plus. so sort of a range in terms of age. far and away. the sort of diagnostic category that we see the most of is anxiety. That may not surprise many of you. though anxiety is sort of a large umbrella. So there are. you know. plenty of diagnostic labels that would fall under that. but just for the purposes of a broad overview. that's certainly the primary issue that folks who come to seek our services are struggling with generally. And then actually right behind that was ADHD this past year. and then just under that. depression. usually depression. or historically. I should say. depression and anxiety have been sort of neck and neck. or closer together than the numbers show this past year. which is just interesting. You know. on a larger scale. as we think about what residents are contending with when it comes to mental health issues. and let's see. what else can I share in terms of referrals out so in the report. I go over that we. you know. one of our sort of big agency wide pushes this past year has been to build up our clinical staff just to ensure that we have the clinical capacity to serve as many residents as we can. We are a organization of roughly 35 total employees. so 25 you know. clinical staff. So we're never going to be able to meet the mental health needs of all of Wayland in any year. of course. but certainly. we want to make sure that we see as many as we can who are appropriate for care at hrs. And so this past year. we welcomed five trainees. which represented the largest training class that we've ever had. And these trainees are. I should mention. you know. late stage doctoral students or social work fellows who have graduated from their program and are just accruing hours towards their own independent licensure. So it's not. you know. I hesitate to use the word trainee. because usually people feel like that's sort of a real entry level clinician. And these clinicians have a lot of clinical experience already under their belt. and are supervised. It's a two year program that we have so welcoming that larger class of trainees last year. and again. they're still with us this year for the second year. really helped us to increase our clinical capacity. which I think is one of the reasons that the numbers were up this past year. just in terms of visits. And it also helps us to refer out fewer cases. of course. So you know. there are cases that we're going to refer out. even if we did have capacity because they're not appropriate for care at hrs. they might be looking for specialized treatment. They might have an insurance that we don't take. something like that. but so for so. we referred out 20 Wayland residents this past year. and nine of those were not appropriate for care at hrs. They had an insurance retake and needed to use their insurance or they were seeking specialized treatment of some kind. The other refer out cases were either folks who called at a time that we didn't have capacity to see them. they may have had a particular time that they needed to be seen. Some children and adolescents. you know. really don't have a lot of availability. and our after school evening hours go certainly the fastest throughout the year. So but if we do refer out. we refer Wayland residents to folks in the community that either a staff member. a clinical staff member. has recommended. knows. sometimes it's somebody who's worked at hrs in the past. So it's a really well vetted list. So I always mentioned that because I think that's another great service hrs can offer to the community is kind of a personalized. really well vetted referral system. So we're more than happy to work with any Wayland resident to get connected to mental health treatment and and we're going to the INT. Team. the clinicians who are on that team are going to stick with any resident until they find a provider if we can't see them that they are satisfied with. So as much as they want to continue to reach out to us. if they're having difficulty. we're going to stick with them and make sure that they get connected as well. But overall. our referral numbers are down. and the number of Wayland residents you know. seen in house has gone up in the last couple of years. and just again for reference. and this is all in the report. But in FY 23 we saw 677 residents. as I said. In FY 24 864 and then just over 1100 this past fiscal year. So it's going up. So Right?
And what else can I share? Let me pause and then not inundate you with numbers and ask if people have particular questions. either from the report or just about hrs currently. in general. happy to do my best.
I was wondering you under the diagnosis breakdown. There's one that just had. is a NA is that just somebody that saw referral. but there is no real diagnosis with it. So the diagnostic breakdown actually. and I can look into what that is. that this is actually all of the cases seen. and that could just be. somehow the coding it could be. let's see. you know. couples is in there. The way that that information got coded in our system. whatever the diagnostic category was. just didn't fall into one of these categories. So I will look into that. I don't know exactly it should be an other. I would assume. But that's just an error in our sort of the way our operations manager who collects the data from our electronic health record system.
it got code. okay. yeah. Was there any. any. any other. like. really severe cases that would be like. stand out in terms of. like. very. very severe depression or any. anything. or has it been. like. more or less manageable? You know. I would say it's manageable. HMS is not an acute care facility. So if we're working with a resident. or a resident's been referred. or we hear about an individual you know through the school system who's struggling. you know. to a great degree. essentially. when they present to us. we're likely going to recommend a higher level of care than outpatient treatment. We do come across these cases and help the folks in the school system you know work with individuals. if they're school aged. who you know can be really struggling with a pretty severe depressive episode. But again. if they come to us seeking treatment and they're in the midst of it. we're we're likely to recommend either going to the hospital just to assess for safety reasons and liability reasons. or a higher level of care if it's already sort of identified that it's really severe. That being said. we have a psychiatrist on staff who's trained as a child and adult analyst. and he. you know. certainly has a tremendous amount of experience. and as long as somebody is in treatment. in therapy at hrs. they can access medication management through us. So. you know. we certainly see folks who are struggling with a severe depression. but I would say overall. our clientele are able to function. you know. for the most part. day to day. whether they're school aged or within The adult population. Thank you. Yeah. absolutely. Other questions. I
Julia Junghanns: do appreciate the information. as we had talked about. you know. previously. when we fell shut hope was here. She's actually left the town and no longer working here. unfortunately. Unknown: So yeah. but some more information. And you know. we can pull that into our annual report that is due the end of this month. And so. you know. we've been working busily on our draft. and no so we appreciate your coming in. I don't know if any other folks have questions. but we do have some time as we have scheduled. Yeah. Absolutely. And we were happy to add one of the things. just for others on the call that Michelle was interested in. was referral source data. So we were. we started gathering that this past fiscal year upon request. And. you know. it's interesting to see. it's always a sensitive thing to figure out how to gather. you know. more data. right? But also be sensitive to folks calling to seek mental health treatment and not be. you know. asking too many questions for our own data gathering purposes. Within that first call. we want to make sure that they feel comfortable giving information. And for some people. it may be sensitive how they learned about hrs or from whom. and and the data. as you can see in the chart. sort of supports what we thought. 28 you know. referrals from the public school district. but a couple from the Senior Center. which was great to see. And then. you know. and this is self report. So. so the clients themselves who presented are giving us that information. 12 self referred. four from family members. five from community and then six from PCPs. which was higher than anticipated. But we we always try to connect with local PCPs. just to make sure they're aware about us and our services. We have a longer standing relationship with Western pediatrics and many residents of the three towns we serve. you know. are seen there. so they know about us. But there are others who have become more familiar Framingham peds and others. a couple providers in in Wayland as well. So that's good to see that that primary care providers of kids are referring to us and staying connected to us as well. and certainly. as we train new staff and social work fellows and postdoc fellows. we make sure that they're reaching back out to those pediatricians or primary care offices with permission. of course. from the patients. just to coordinate care in an ongoing way. and we gather the information about who their primary care provider is right at the beginning. when they're when they're signing registration paperwork and getting getting up and going in treatment. So I think that was the. one of the main. you know. pieces of data that Michelle was interested in. and then also just getting a sense of the total number of Wayland residents and scene versus just new intakes. We used to just report on that and then yes. the specific consultations happening year to year. I think Julia. that was mostly the data that we added
to mentioned it. I had another question when Sure so from referral to appointment time. what's that access like? That's a great question. So usually we are we have an intake meeting on Thursdays every week. and if a case is assigned. they're going to hear from that clinician. We really require that that clinician. that the case has been assigned. to get in touch with the individual or family the next day. because our goal is that that individual would be seen the following week. right? So it's a Thursday. they're. you know. likely we've assigned them to a time that the clinician has given to us as available when we make the match. But usually those aren't going to be Friday. even if the case is assigned Friday. So I would say the longest number of business days would be six. right? If it's if a Friday was looked for and they were going to be given that time the following Friday. but assuming no other scheduling issues get in the way it would be seen the following week. Yeah. So you know. between two and six business days they should be seen. That being said. I can get you the exact answer now that we have an electronic health record system. and it's likely that the average would show a longer amount of time. And of course. just the way averages work. That's because. you know. sometimes the clinician will call the next day after case is assigned. And of course. the child or adolescent has something in place. you know. an activity or something that following week. at a time that they had told the intake team they do have available and will it just gets pushed out. So I often find that it's easier to kind of explain our system than state what our electronic record system would say is the average. But certainly. if you're interested in what that says. I'm happy to get that data. But if there are no other scheduling issues. we're if we're assigning the case that clinician has the availability the following week in their schedule to see the person. Thank you. and I should say. maybe you asked about first contact. So we assigned cases on Thursday. if a Wayland resident calls hrs. they're going to get a call back from a member of the intake team within 24 hours of their call. Um. and that's we know during business hours. So we don't our phone is answered all the time. because we have an answering service on on the weekends in case there's something urgent clinically going on. but if it's during the weekly call back within 24 hours. and then a senior clinician on the intake team will take information and present the case at the intake meeting that occurs once a week on Thursdays. So again. it's variable based on the day that somebody calls. but a resident will always get a call back from one of those people within 24 hours of calling initially. So that's the other variable that can sort of depending on the day that they call and how many days until the intake meeting. It's can consider change. You know. how quickly the turnaround happens in terms of first visit. But one of the benefits of having senior clinicians staff the intake team. is that they're also in gathering information about what a resident is looking for in terms of treatment. They're also assessing. you know. acuity and whether or not there would be any problem waiting until that first appointment. So they're not going to have somebody who's in great distress. And really. you know. their sense is that they won't be able to function well until that next appointment. They're not just going to say. just sit tight. There are clinicians. and are also going to figure out how to get the resident what they need in the interim so they would only be waiting for an appointment if that was clinically appropriate to do. So.
I just had a question on. Looks like it's page two. I'm just trying to figure out. you know. where you talk about FY 25 clinical hours to town residents. non school. But then below that. you know the hours are referencing counseling to children and families. So the non school language. and I should take that out. but remember last year when we were talking about kind of the origin of the contract with the Wayland Board of Health and the work that we did in schools. Initially. when the contract was created. we were helping the Wayland school in part. we were doing some outpatient work. but we were also helping Wayland. the Wayland public school system service. IEPs. particularly the counseling goals written into IEPs because the school district didn't have enough counseling staff to service all of the counseling needs within Student IEPs that existed. So some of this funding helped to support that. So I'm a clinician at hrs. for example. if I got assigned a Wayland school case. that's what we would call it. Then that would mean that I would be meeting with a child who attends the Wayland public school. you know. weekly for counseling. I wouldn't be with them in the summer. because. again. the counseling need was written into their individualized education plan. and I was servicing that need for the district that those sort of school based counseling hours being covered within this contract ended. you know. I think over 10 years ago now. and we encouraged that piece of the work to end. School districts have hired more clinical staff now. It's better to have those counseling needs met by an in house clinician. In House meeting within the school district they can better coordinate the care. That's just the model that school districts have adopted. So it certainly makes more sense for a kid to be seen on an outpatient basis at hrs if a clinical need arises and they're referred. usually schools think you know of referring kids who don't just need counseling support to get through the school day or be functioning in school. but they could really benefit from talking to someone outside of school. So we haven't done any of those in school hours in a long time. but. but I think that language was sort of written into the report template. really. to differentiate between outpatient clinical hours done at hrs to provide therapy for Wayland residents and the School Based counseling hours that we provided historically. But we're kind of counseling hours to service kids IEPs. Does that clarify? I think so. I just. and I remember we talked about that before it was just. you know. mainly trying to identify. you know
Julia Junghanns: how people are getting note. how people are aware of your services. And you know is that generally. through the school system and different relationships. you know at the school that are through your services that are provided. Unknown: Potentially. yes. certainly. So you know. the vast majority of referrals to us came through the public school district this past fiscal year. but there are other residents who you know. family. friends. neighbors. things like that. You know. other folks in the community who have sought services. Do you know refer some residents. And as I said. we did some marketing work with the senior centers in all of the towns and and they referred a couple of patients. So. so. and then. you know. also PC piece in the area as well. So. but again. the vast majority of people refer to us came through the public school district.
Quiet buddy.
yeah. non school. It's just old language to differentiate between just traditional outpatient clinical hours. and I'll be
done in just a couple minutes. Couple minutes. Five minutes. What time are you holding down? What time are you going? Five minutes. Okay. thank you. Oh. how long is time? How many minutes do we have. like this. like this thing? How many minutes do we have now? How many one second. I'm gonna bring him out there anyway.
You know. one of the basis is the questions that we have before to try and identify. you know. how people know their services outside of the school center? Yeah. and. you know. I think she explained that they have done some. you know. informational. I don't know exactly. some type of outreach. I think. to. you know. Senior Center. but it seems like. you know. I'm not. The school is still. you know. really the part where it says non school in life. that to me. just just a little bit hard to grasp that I'd like to remove that from this. because it doesn't really match up with what's actually. all right. sorry about that. No. that's okay. Um. I was just trying to figure out. you know. when people look at the support. how they. you know. look at that section and feel like it's services that are not being provided to the schools. And I understand what you're explaining to us. which makes sense. because I know we've talked about that before. but it seems like the report should probably be a little different. you know. in the way it's described. I would think. you know. updating the language. Maybe just update the language a little bit so that it's. I
Julia Junghanns: don't know exactly what the language should be. but. you know. non school. to me. is sort of misleading. because it is school work that's being done for families in the school system. Unknown: No. it's not. That's not what that that section means. So I think perhaps removing non school will help clinical hours to town residents. The 1100 92 is clinical hours of outpatient therapeutic services provided to Wayland residents. period. nothing to do with school. That's just outpatient clinical services provided consultation hours to school staff. Consultation is another service we provide and for all of the towns that we serve West and Wayland and Wellesley. We do consultation work with folks in the school administrators. principals. vice principals. the guidance team. special educators. etc. to help support the work that they do. We provide a unique clinical perspective as outpatient providers. but are also very familiar with the school system and can help them think about difficult cases in a new way. family systems issues in a new way. That's just the 30 hours that we did. So if you see in the school services section. so general services. maybe. if you look at that section. general non school services. the counseling to children and families. 1100 92 that's clinical hours provided to Wayland residents. nothing to do with school and similarly. the intake and referral services the 51 hours that's work that our intake team is doing with Wayland residents across the lifespan who are seeking mental health treatment. the school services that we have. Provider. just the consultation. and then we didn't do any last year. but any urgent psychiatric evaluations.
Julia Junghanns: I think we're maybe talking about two different things. because I'm looking at it from a different a different perspective. potentially. where are people finding out about hrs? Are they finding out about hrs in the school setting. not necessarily related to any IEP in the school? That's what I'm sort of. you know. right? Unknown: So you're on. you're wondering about the referral source data. So if you look at the last page. the chart on the last page. referral source data is. at least for anybody who accessed care through us. You're wanting to know how they found out about us. And so in 28 of the cases. someone within the school district at some level. Sorry. the last page. If there are four pages in the report. I believe it's on page four and then it's in the right hand column. Referral source.
Okay. looks like it's clear. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go right ahead. Continue. please. Oh. that's okay. So. so this is just a new section of data that we added to the report this past fiscal year because Michelle was curious about just your question. Julia. where are people? Where are people who are presenting for treatment at hrs. finding out about hrs. And in 28 it was the cases the the school district. Someone in the school district told them about us. Six of the cases. they found out about us through a primary care provider. Five through a friend or community for family member. And then. you know. in 12 cases. they self refer. meaning that's just what they indicated. right? So this data is a little bit complicated to get. You know. I wouldn't. I think it's. it's helpful in some ways. But again. individuals who are presenting to treatment. we can ask them. sort of for this information. how did you learn about us? And then the data is. what is it? Some may choose not to give us that information. but those that did gave us the information in this section.
And as I said. just as we expected. there are a large amount of people who find out about us through the public school district. If you think about families within the district who have children. They could be presenting to hrs for couples. treatment parent guidance. you know. treatment for themselves. but learn about a community health agency through the school district at some point. whether it's back to school night. something like that. So we imagined before even presenting this referral source data. that many of the referrals came somehow through the school district. But as you can see. there are the senior center PCPs in the community. friends family also referred Wayland residents to hrs as well. Am I better answering your question now about sort of how people learn about hrs and our services? Yes. that is helpful. Okay.
I asked one more question. Sorry. So if you had 52 unique clients in fiscal year. 2025 what was the number for 2024 Do you know? I'm just wondering if it's typical. the hours that were the clinical hours. if that's like typical. because. if you like. just. do I just divide the number of hours by the number of people. which probably isn't like accurate. is like 23 hours? Is that kind of typical in a year? You know? So that services? Yes. I mean. certainly there is no real typical. you know. So exactly. you can't really divide it and get a sense of what is average. but because we work with children and families. it is longer term work. We're not doing short term work for the most part. Some people may come for five to 10 sessions and feel better and move along. But you know. when we're working with children. if you get a new child case. the evaluation alone is between three and five sessions. because you're meeting with parents initially. then meeting with the child for three to five sessions. and then having parents back to give some feedback and make a treatment plan from there. So the number of sessions. certainly. you know. is greater. I would say overall for a child case. So you were asking the number of unique Wayland residents that were seen in FY 24 overall. And I can pull that up just from last year's report. Really quickly. It's. it's. I believe this year's is higher than last year's. you know. in that category as well. given that would be my guess anyway. that. given that the clinical hours are up. but it sounds like you're wondering about sort of average number of sessions that an individual is in treatment overall. And if that's possible to determine. or if this is sort of a normal number of sessions for that number of residents. yes. yeah. So I think that the number of clinical hours being up does correlate with us being able to serve more residents than we did last fiscal year and the fiscal year prior. Certainly I don't think it's always that correlation is not always. you know. completely straight line. because it depends on the type of treatment needed. age of the client. etc. But there will be a correlation between those two numbers the vast majority of the time. and I'll just look and see if I can get that quickly. The total number of unique clients from last year's report is I think
what I just found is the number of new cases assigned in FY 24
which was 17 in 24 compared to 31 this year. So that was certainly up as well. And I'll
look right now and continue. Can take other questions as I do this. if there are any. I
think that's. I think that's great that you take the time and go through set multiple sessions to talk to parents and everything. I think that's like. that's awesome instead of or like. Yeah. that's really great that taking the time to go through multiple sessions. I'm glad you think so. Yeah. certainly it feels like best practice to us and working with kids and families and well. it's going to result in more visit. It's. I personally would never begin treatment with a child without doing a thorough. you know. history. gathering a full history from parents. understanding their concerns. And then also. even after. you know. you need to meet with a child. I would say at least three times to you know. even get a sense of who they are and whether continuing on in therapy will be useful for the child. I always like to reach out to any school providers during that initial evaluation who might be involved as well. You just need to gather all that data at first so it can't happen.
I'm any other questions.
Thank you so much for your time. Yes. I'm not finding that figure. I my guess is that the number is high 30s or in the 40s of total unique residency in last year. if the number of new cases was 17. I think we just started reporting some of this new data within this fiscal year and maybe in the mid year report from last year that I could probably find as well. anyway. But yeah. that's my guess. So certainly that number was lower last year as well the total number of residents seen within the year. given this account. thank you. Lindsay. we appreciate your Absolutely. Yes. Thank you very much for the support from the board. It's really critical to the work we do and to make sure that all Wayland residents you know can have their mental health needs serve. regardless of their ability to pay. I think is really critical and valuable to the community. So thank you for supporting the work that we do in the way that you do. and if other questions come up. don't hesitate to reach out. Happy to come back. hopefully next time in person. Thanks for tolerating my son's questions about mid Yeah. Appreciate it. Okay. thanks. everybody. That's
not five minutes. How many is five minutes?
So I don't know if everyone had a chance to look at the annual report. but I printed out a copy of it. just a case that we can it's a draft. obviously. this is the full report
for the whole department. We're still working on gathering some information. but it's. there's quite a bit of it that's already done. The nursing section is not done yet. So there's a few things that would be added. But in general. it's. you know. similar to prior years.
See if anything's our septic permits are up from the past couple of years. We went from 109 to 116 in FY 25 well testing was up a little bit
new construction. I
Not as many title fives. but it's hard to track those. because. you know. when we do a permit. it's good for a few years. So people may not actually do that work in the same year that they pull apartment. So you know. it runs over a few years. so you can sort of see the trends for the past few years for any
septic comments.
But we are up on building approval reviews. We had 280 this year and last year we had 207 uh.
So we're so we're the volume is sort of slowly increasing. I mean. that's what the numbers show for this fiscal year. I mean. we still have some time to go for our preliminary numbers for FY 26 I don't know where we're at right now. you know. But FY 25 ends. you know. So it starts on July one. and it's confusing. It starts on July one of 24 and runs to June 30 of 25 so it's a little bit. you know. you have to kind of go back in time to remember what we did at that time. Um. but in the in the end. it works out. you know. So now we're in the next fiscal year. I don't know how it lines up with. you know. where We're at with numbers to compare with preliminary but I
the areas in red we're still working on. but some of it is our Communicable Disease Information. and some of it is. you know. the public health nursing section. Um
hrs is not in here yet because I did not have their report last week when I was updating this. Um.
some of our large projects. Charena Farms subdivision. Veritas Christian Academy development project. Saint Anne's 40 bean development. did you see the new one? Which one was that? And race road? Oh. that's going to be. yeah. we're. we're just sort of hearing about that. but we will. I mean. that's huge. That's a huge project. But Darren. I believe. did soil testing up there recently the Coptic charge. yeah. there were plans online somewhere that I saw. yeah. so that'll be another. you know. those large projects can be very time consuming for us to look at the septic design plans. and when they want to phase it too. they're going to right? So another complicated. phased project where there'll be pressure dosing. mounting calculations. probably a hydro geo review. which potentially could also be for the high school septic system. You know. some of those things we can look at. but we generally don't look at hyper geo reviews. And so we'll have to probably have a consultant look at some of those components. but they can be time consuming. especially if they're a Phase project
that the the church that's on rice Road. yes. the Coptic Jonathan Storer: Church. it's. it's kind of residences in Unknown: it too. So the church is getting demolished. Jonathan Storer: or in phases. They're going to build a new church before they take down the old one.
Unknown: Yeah. I think they they have a fin recently. Yes. they did. because I remember. Were hearing about something recently. Julia Junghanns: We've been talking about it at. you know. just land use meetings with town staff. Just initially. they had come in and explained what they were planning on. And then. you know. we talk about it again. And then we hear about. you know. different phases the project. when they're going to other. you know. like site plan review or zba. I can't remember which one they may have been at recently. but they haven't made it to us yet. but we did do soil testing. Jonathan Storer: So what struck me is they were utilizing every bit of that piece of property. yeah. yeah. between parking lot or athletic court or housing or whatever it was all. Unknown: Yeah. that'll be very busy and on rice road. I
anything in red is the old stuff from last year. so it has to be. I mean. I think we've done a lot. so we'll be fine with meeting the deadline of September 30. but they would tell you that if you don't submit your annual report. your board Beat this man disbanded. which is pretty extreme. We've always submitted it useless to say it
oh and China rose got the sushi. So that is going to go specs. yeah. actually. they did hire a consultant. and they went through that process. I guess I should. I haven't talked more about recently. but I will find Out.
Jonathan Storer: What has Veritas been doing lately is that just charging along. or I haven't heard or read anything Unknown: recently. they were working on building permit reviews.
Jonathan Storer: That's the last time they got all through conservation.
Unknown: I don't know if they have a comment with them. does it conservation just take so long? So yeah. sure. they've actually completed their process. yeah. with conservation. But if they're working on the building application. I would think they have something.
Wow. So at the end of the report. we've got an FY. well. that should be FY 26 FY 26 focus areas. These are just things that you know we're continuing. that we're still working on. I don't know if the board has any feedback or thoughts about areas that the board might feel important or of interest to focus on. In addition to some of these things that I have already plugged in.
we do feel like it's a very important goal to get our Building reviews and eventually our septic reviews respond. open. go.
although we have a new IT director. which isn't good. but the one of the IT staff recently resigned. so that'll be difficult. But you know. things happen. People leave. and I'm sure that we will find someone. but it might be a little cumbersome to pick up where we left off. which. you know. we were making some good progression on that. but we're very eager to get our building reviews on Open Gov. You know. we feel like it will be a really good move to have. you know. a more streamlined process for residents in the application process. and so we're anticipating that happening. And then. you know. we'll work on septic reviews. But that's. you know. that's down pike. I mean. I think the building part would be most of interest to people you know. that are. I think it's a bit of a struggle to get through that process. It's a little disjointed right now. where it's. you know. some is on open go. some isn't some paper. some is online. So. you know. I look forward to seeing that get all opened up. Jonathan Storer: And have you found anyone to replace Michelle? Yet Unknown: we have. which is great news. We went through some interviews with some really good applicants. And you know. we had two rounds of interviews. Heather joined us. myself. the HR director and Heather. and we expect Laura Carter to start with us on September 22 she's coming from a job where she has a job share between Concord and Maynard as the public health nurse. and she's a nurse practitioner. We're very excited. and think she'll be great fit. So as in frantically working on some logistics and planning for flu clinics Julia Junghanns: and. you know. just getting some dates set. you know. the locations and the times and strategizing some staffing and whatnot. On. So when she walks in here. there's some work that's already done. because it's going to be busy. We have vaccine already. so people are calling about clinics. and we have flu vaccine. and we have Unknown: high dose and regular we will be getting some covid vaccine as well. So we'll do some covid clinics. but not right away. because. like. here. make it a little crazy. but we can. We'll work on that too. So. but yes. I'm very excited. It's been a little stressful. Jonathan Storer: Well. you've been wearing multiple hats for a little bit. Julia Junghanns: yeah. I mean. it's. you know. plus anticipating. you know. what happens if we don't have someone and. I mean. I felt like we would. because we had some really good candidates. and. you know. I felt like. you know. we would get someone in here. So that was good part. but then going through that process. it always takes longer than you expect. you know. and and HR really did help us along. but it just always. you know. people on vacation. or you know this or that. and people have to get give notice. You know. I mean. it's a process so.
Unknown: but finally.
does she want to come meet us? Or. yeah. I am sure she will.
So didn't skip a little bit over here. but
that's. you know. basically the update on flu clinic planning. The two dates that we have are October 15 and October 22 three to 7pm
you know. we like to have a couple on Wednesdays. because those are the early release days for school. and that way we can try to capture Julia Junghanns: kids and families where we can the 15th is probably going to be the senior clinic we haven't you sent out any registration or sign ups yet that will be coming. You know. we have to get the because Unknown: it's all online now. You know. you register online. and so once we have those registration links ready. we will do some advertising. But those are the two clinics that we've set up so far. which will be in this room in the town building and so
On. budget updates.
Tom is very. very closely looking at the budget for FY 27 and they also already looked at our non salary budget. Everyone's not just us. everyone's non salary budget to see where you can shave out. you know. some costs that potentially could be cut from our budget. And so we've done that. We haven't heard Julia Junghanns: about formal budget planning. I think they're having some big meetings about how to approach these concerns for an override. And you know. there's a proposal that I think the Select Board is reviewing. I don't know if they're reviewing that tonight. I think there have any hearing on property on West plain street. So
Unknown: there were some proposals that I think were being provided by the town manager and the finance director. and so they're looking for some direction from the Select Board on which way to go and whether they need to go to ask for override from Tom meeting next spring. So that's that. That's what's going on there. It's. I don't know exactly what will happen. but we'll see. I'll keep everyone in the loop of any new information I have. Heather. our school nurse leader. is. has been. you know. working on the. you know. preschool meetings with the school nurses. and we've been in touch. you know. a number of times she's been handling all that. So very thankful for all of her help getting everyone ready. To start the school year. and. you know. they're in full swing now. That was a couple weeks ago. So very thankful that. you know. she was able to step in and and handle that without any. you know. big bumps in the road. I haven't heard of any. anything crazy going on. I'm just going to knock on the table. but
mosquito surveillance. excuse me. We did have testing done last week. and there were no positives. They are doing testing again. today or tomorrow. it is possible we could have a positive mosquito for West Nile. At this point. the populations are much lower than they were because it's been so cool at night. and so I don't know that there would be any need to have additional measures taken. as far as. like. you know. considering canceling programs or things like that. This time of year. if it's cool at night. the populations really start plummeting. And when I say that. I mean of the mosquitoes themselves and their activity. they're much slower moving. Julia Junghanns: Warm days. they're still out there. There's no There's no obliteration of all mosquitoes at this point. You know that would be after the first heavy cross. but people should still be. you know. protecting themselves using bug spray. and you know. trying to avoid peak mosquito hours. especially you know. senior citizens or people with immunocompromised systems Unknown: underlying health issues. potentially. you know. West Nile could be a risk for those those populations. but we will find out more when I get results back from our mosquito control project. which hopefully will be maybe tomorrow. maybe Wednesday or Thursday. but that will be probably the last time they do testing this year.
Are they testing for West Nile and Tripoli? So they they look at the populations and the types of mosquitoes. So if they found they do have some light traps. which would be where they would find mosquitoes that could potentially carry Tripoli. Um.
Julia Junghanns: I know that it's much. much less likely here. because we don't have Cedar swamps. but I know they're looking at what types of mosquitoes they find. So I can ask Laura about that when they do their next testing. But typically. the mosquitoes that would carry that disease would be a certain species. So they would. you know. look at what the trap collects. and determine if there was any mosquitoes that could potentially be carrying that he didn't mention that. But I can ask. you know. out of you know. knowledge. you know. we don't get an actual print out of a report. So it's like. you know. it's basically. um. whether there's positives or not. And then sometimes the mosquito. some species. they will tell us that. oh. there's a lot of these types of species. so maybe we'll test for that. so that type of thing. So. but I can ask more about that. It's interesting to know. you know.
Jonathan Storer: where are the closest cedar swamps. Unknown: Sudbury.
Jonathan Storer: And do you know what kind of mosquitoes carry? Unknown: Tripoli I do. although I haven't heard this season. and I think it might be off the radar for a lot of towns. because we haven't really heard of of that many problems with Tripoli being carried in mosquitoes to see Jonathan Storer: Asian tiger mosquito or which one carries Unknown: don't think it's that mosquito. It's you'll see it in Melena is one of them. Jonathan Storer: I just. I don't. didn't have any idea how far they travel. and I Googled it. It Some don't travel Unknown: very far that we put right on the route 20 corner. and they stay over there. Yeah. no. it is possible. you know. because obviously mosquitoes travel and and Jonathan Storer: they sometimes ride the wind. is what? Yes. Google says. that's for sure. Julia Junghanns: They do. Do. and so. you know. but there's a lot of science involved with it too. that I probably am not aware of right now as to potentially why this. you know. is happening where we're seeing more West Nile than triple E mosquitoes carry. you know. plus we've had West Nile cases in humans. and so that elevates it who are at a high risk right now. for for West Nile. although. as I mentioned. as the nights cool. it becomes. you know. less concerning. I mean. it's still a risk where people should. you know. put back on protect themselves. but
Unknown: the populations start really going down. but. you know. people are still outside and should wear bug spray long sleeves. you know. spray deed. all over again. spray deed is the best thing that is. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons not to UD use deed. but it is good to prevent mosquitoes. you know. so lots of garlic. you know. staying away from areas where there's a lot of foliage. where the mosquito sort of gather. and swampy wetland areas. Things like that. especially at dusk or early morning. Um. the update on 195 main street at the old DEP W site.
Julia Junghanns: They are doing a little bit more work. I did watch the last meeting that they had. and the PFAS numbers were even higher from additional testing that they had done in the groundwater monitoring wells. and so they were going to look more closely towards where the septic system leach field is at the Middle School as a potential suspect source for PFAS. So that's being still looked at. I'm not sure where that's going to go. because. according to Unknown: Ben Gould. it's not something that is really fixable by digging the soil out. Julia Junghanns: You know. I don't know exactly what the solution would be. But I think you know this. the town will still have to do something to satisfy the state's non compliance letter for having this PFAS in water. in in the zone too. So that's. that's basically what's going on. I don't have anything new on that
Unknown: 10 short drive we are. We did have information coming from someone regarding concerning housing conditions. and so we're going to initiate an inspection at the property. Initially. it's. you know. basically requesting an inspection. So I will let the board know how that goes and what happens next.
General business. Oh. there was the MWRA connection. I had shared the letter that went out in the end of August regarding the emergency connection to the MWRA. I don't know exactly where that stands as of today. as far as the repair of piping at the happy follow wells So. but the good news is we had the ability to connect and use the butter from MWRA. Um. general business. Oh. one more thing. We do have some events coming up that are part of National Recovery Month. There's a whole calendar of events that was put together by Olivia do for who is our regional substance use prevention coordinator. and each town in our seven town collaborate. Collaborative has. you know. different events going on. and so this. I believe. is on the town's website. where each day there's something going on. And we also have a survey. which is to help us under understand what potentially the opioid needs are in our community. It's. you know. easy to take the survey by a link on this handout. This was also put together by a. Olivia do for who has been doing a great job. you know. on prevention work. and this was. you know. one of the things that they wanted to try and identify what people think the needs are in each community out of our seven Tom collaborative. yeah.
general business. there's a stack of bills. which we apologize for. Patty had gotten behind with vacations and things like that. So if there's any questions. please let me know I'm happy to answer them. Or you could always stop in if you wanted to. you know. in the office. And then we do have one set of minutes that are ready. May 12. Did everyone have a chance to look at them. or have a copy here? Okay. so then we would just need to someone would need to make a motion to approve the minutes. a motion to approve the minutes from May 12. Yes. I second the motion.
What do we do now? Need to take a vote. yeah. and I
don't remember what we say. So basically. you know each person votes. and you go around asking each person if they vote yes. Jonathan Storer: Okay. Genevieve and on. do you vote yes? Or how do you vote yes? Brent mortis. Unknown: yes. Jonathan Storer: Katie step. yeah. And John story. yes. Unknown: excellent. Thank you.
We don't have June. but we're working on that. so that should be ready next
time I thought you were gonna say. I know you know. you just That's right. I forgot Robert. Yeah.
any other questions or concerns or I will definitely bring Laura in to one of our board meetings so you can meet her and welcome her to Wayland. and you know she'll be working with Heather Yates and our fabulous nursing team that we have that's been running smoothly as you know. so far this school year. which is very happy about. yeah. isn't there something else you want to announce? What I
Jonathan Storer: don't know? I just noticed something Unknown: that I got engaged. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. thank you. Couple weeks ago. few weeks ago. thank you.
So I mean. I don't think there's anything else someone needs to make a motion to close. I make a motion to close the meeting.
Second. just go around again. Jonathan Storer: Jen. you have an on? Yes? John store. yes.
Unknown: Brett mortis. yes. Katie stuff. yeah. great. Thank you. All right. if you.
Board of Public Works
George Uveges: Okay? It is six
o'clock. so I am going to call
the meeting to order. I'm going
to start by reading the
information on the agenda. right
below the agenda heading says
note items may not be discussed
in the order listed or at the
specific time. Estimated times
are approximate. All topics may
be subject to deliberation and
vote. In addition. the common
abbreviations. the B. O. W. P.
uses. DPW for the Department of
Public Works. MWRA. for
Massachusetts water resource
authority. and PFAS for poly
whatever that is. but it's
written out on the agenda. One
may watch or may participate
remotely with the meeting link
that can be found at and then
the link is there on the agenda.
Pursuant to chapter two of the
acts of 2025 the meeting will be
conducted via remote
participation. No in person
attendance by members of the
public will be permitted this
meeting may be recorded. which
will be made available to the
public on WayCAM as soon after
the meeting as practical. All
right. let's start with a roll
call. If we could. Mike
Spellman. I here. Mike
wakeebacker. here. Judy here. Ed
Yes. here. and myself here.
Okay. that's the opening we have
everybody in attendance.
Announcements? Anybody have
announcements?
Michael Wegerbauer: I just want
to go ahead.
Unknown: Sorry. The only
announcement I have is the grant
money that I mentioned last
time. My understanding is that
the town is not pursuing it.
However. it did bring up the
idea that. independent of any
kind of grant money. would be
nice to ask kleinfielder to look
into any kind of way to reduce
ongoing operating costs through.
I don't know. solar panels or
geothermal or something.
George Uveges: Okay. noted.
Mike. you had something?
Michael Wegerbauer: Yeah. I just
want to announce that we had met
with the Department of Revenue
to discuss the water enterprise
fund revenue and budgeting. and
we had a very good. quick
meeting. And I'm happy to give a
summary at some point.
George Uveges: We'll be talking
about that later. Yep. okay.
okay. Any other announcements?
Tom Holder: Just a real quick
one. real light duty. We have a
an employee that's retiring. Joe
How many years is Joey philippo.
I put
you on the spot. Anyway. We've got a long. long standing employee. graduate of Wayland High School. retiring after decades of service. so we're having a send off for him Thursday at noon at the DEP W so anybody that is in the area and is free during that time frame. please feel free to join us at the Public Works facility. George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Alright. open it up for public comment. You watching the hands. Joe Doucette: I just wanted to let you know that he was employed January 2004 was any started? So I just looked that up. good. George Uveges: So 24 years. very nice. Tom Holder: Okay. so I see Jeff Stein. so I'm going to allow him to speak. Jeff. are you there? Unknown: I am. Tom Holder: Can you hear me loud and clear? Michael Wegerbauer: Oh. good. Well. thank you. Then. I'm Jeff Stein. I live at 48 Sherman's Bridge Road in Wayland. I'm an architect past dean of the Boston architectural college. I can see Sherman's bridge from my house. and of course. I can hear it that. by the way. is a feature. not a problem. The sound of the bridge is part of the charm of this neighborhood and part of what makes this bridge a place. I just want to point out that working on a project like this is more complex than it might have been even a generation ago. especially for this project. your constituency is not just car commuters. landscapers with their extra wide trailers. school busses. It's bicyclists. motorcycles. pedestrians. people who are fishing. boaters. his. Historians. nature. photographers. tax paying neighbors. people have held weddings on this wooden bridge. We're all your clients. and you should know we need more than a fast. smooth driving lane with metal guard rails. Speed is already a problem on Sherman's Bridge Road. where there are regular car crashes on the road. but interestingly. not on the bumpy wooden bridge itself. The wooden bridge gives identity to a neighborhood that has grown up around it to this region of Wayland and Sudbury. and we'd like to preserve that identity and its place in our town's history. on a scenic road where commuters are already traveling way too fast. Asphalt on Gulam might not be the answer. I'm just saying.
George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Jeff. There is going to be a forum on Sherman bridge coming up. so I would encourage you to come to that forum. Michael Wegerbauer: Great. Thank you.
George Uveges: We have anybody else Tom Tom Holder: I see several people in attendance. but I don't see any more hands.
George Uveges: You're in attendance and would like to speak. please raise your hand. otherwise we will move on.
Tom Holder: Okay. here we go. I have Rebecca. Rebecca. you are on Unknown: Okay. Hi. I'm Rebecca Devine. I'm at 17 Hereford Road in Wayland. Just as a side note. I'm not related to Greg. as far as I know. but my family has been at this property since 1942 and so we have a long history at the bridge. I will say that. Well. I appreciate the wood bridge. I don't. unlike many of my neighbors. appreciate the noise of it. I have found in my many years living here. and my grandmother having lived here my entire life. that the bridge has not been well maintained as far as I'm concerned. in between seasons and Joe. maybe you could answer the question. Is it really that it alternates from one town to the other on maintenance every year. Or do you guys split the maintenance? Because it seems like every June the bridge is not maintained until it becomes the next fiscal fiscal year. I will agree with Jeff that there is too much speed. and we don't need it to be faster. but the maintenance has been atrocious since the built bridge was rebuilt in 1991 as far as I can tell.
Michael Wegerbauer: I think Joe. you can respond if You have an answer to the question about who is alternating? Joe Doucette: I want to say it was three or four years ago. or maybe longer than that. we had decided with Sudbury to the bridge. Instead of alternating back and forth. we've literally split the bridge in half. They take care of one half. We take care of the other half. We do maintain it approximately two times a year. it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain it. because the stringers have essentially turned into Swiss cheese. So as much as we attempt to maintain it and keep the boards in place. the Yeah. it's a kind of a losing battle. Unknown: And Joe one follow up on that. is it true that those boards come from one supplier only. and only one person can get them for you. Is that part of my understanding as to why it's been such an issue on maintenance? Joe Doucette: No. we've struggled to find suppliers because we do have to have them made in certain lengths. et cetera. We in the past few years have gone through a couple different vendors. But no. it's. it's not. it's not difficult to get a supplier. but it's not easy as well. It's. we've gone through a few and we currently do have a supplier form. Unknown: Okay. thanks. I think those are just some of the issues that may be helpful when you guys are doing your full meeting. Thank you. Joe. Thank you. Tom Holder: Tom anybody else I am looking and as of now. I do not see any other hands. George Uveges: All right. going once. going twice. nothing. Tom Holder: nothing. no. changes. George Uveges: Okay. let's close public comment and move into the status of the long term water supply project.
Tom Holder: It's all yours. Tom Sure. sure. to start off the conversation. we just see if I. I do see Greg Devine. no relation to Rebecca. Sure. so Greg has joined us tonight. Greg is employed by the mass DEP. and he works in the office that oversees the State Revolving Fund. So in knowing that there has been some periodic questions asked relative to the SRF program and how it relates to our financing of the MWRA project. I invited Greg to join us. He can provide you know a brief overview of the SRF funding program and entertain questions that board members may have. So with that. I would recognize Greg.
Unknown: Thank you. Tom appreciate you all inviting me here this evening. Happy to share a little bit about the program. about myself. I have been serving the SRF program in this capacity for about six years now. So I am the SRF Program Section Chief. responsible for projects in both the Northeast region in which the town of Wayland resides. as well as the western region. So in that capacity. we have overseen projects of all types. most recently. and obviously. we've dealt with quite a few projects that involve PFAS. or rather. the elimination. or at least the reduction thereof to the public's drinking water supply. So what I wanted to touch upon here are a couple of what I would say are benefits of utilizing the program and how it can be helpful to town and a community in terms of how it impacts rates and being able to move forward with the capital projects. but also speak to some of the upcoming milestones and just kind of a higher level timeline now that Tom and his team have you know. launched into this endeavor in terms of submitting to our program for consideration a two part capital project. So the SRF program blends money received from the federal government a corresponding state match as well as recycled funds in order to offer support for capital projects. And so with that. we are able to. on an annual basis. offer terms and conditions from a lending borrowing perspective that differ from a more traditional bond ban sort of scenario. and certainly quite different than what a commercial lending institution would offer. Our starting baseline interest rate is 2% so especially in this day and age. if you're tracking any of the mortgage rates. what have you. 2% significantly less. We have recognized the fact that the challenges of eliminating PFAS from raw water sources comes with a pretty high price tag. So what we've tried to do to better support communities in the effort to eliminate PFAS is to offer a reduction from the 2% down to a 0% borrowing capacity. So effectively. for every dollar borrowed toward your project. you pay back that $1 now I would be remiss to say that there aren't any fees or charges associated with this. There is. which is typical of most lending vehicles. and origination fee as well as an administrative fee. So these fees add up to about $5 per 1000 borrowed. and so your effective interest or any outside charges other than the principal on the loan would just be that administrative slash origination fee. So pretty. pretty small dollars. all things considered. the term of our loans typically start at 20 years. and so we ask for a corresponding useful life certificate from your design engineer of record to support and corroborate that the investment by yourself as the town as well as us. that the project in the associated infrastructure will be viable for at least 20 years. We can. at certain times. look beyond the 20 year term and go out as far as 30 years. With that 30 year we do make some market rate adjustments to cover the additional 10 years of repayment. And so of late. that has been in the range of about point four to point six add on to the baseline loan. So in this case. let's just effectively call the overall borrowing to be a somewhere about 75 basis points. or about three. Three quarters of a percentage point. just as a conservative target for borrowing. If we were to go beyond the 20 years. up to something in the 30 year neighborhood. the corresponding useful life certificate would have to correspond with that. because we'd want to make sure that the assets and the effort itself is covered. in fact. viable for that entire period of time during which there is a debt service or in a different way of repayment George Uveges: mode happening. Greg. one question. a little bit of confused in terms of the rates. One point you said 1.4 to 1.6 and then you said a point seven. five. Yeah. Unknown: George. let me clarify. 0.4 to 0.6 would be the ad on to the term note. if we went from 20 years to 30 years. thank you for clarifying. George Uveges: And is that for the full 30 years. or it's just that. just for the last 10 it Unknown: would be for the full 30 and so the amortization on that. And you know. we provide draft schedules would just be adjusted out across the course of two payments per year. January and July.
George Uveges: And is that principal and interest. or principal? And then to split the interest. Unknown: in the case of 0% it would almost effectively be mostly principal each time. So we could offer two courses of repayment. either a level debt service. meaning equal payments twice a year for the life of the loan. or a level principal where the interest will drop down in time. beginning with the highest interest payment on your first payment and then trickling down to zero. similar to what you see on a normal house or car loan. George Uveges: Okay. Fay. and we're just. we're looking at the cash flow impact of some of this. That's why I asked the Unknown: question. Sure. absolutely. And what we can do. if it is at all helpful to your conversation. is I can work with our financial counterparts at the Massachusetts clean water trust our financial arm. and have them put together a few tables. if that would be helpful for a visual and just to kind of review some of those numbers. rather than you all trying to project those out in your preferred financial software. George Uveges: Good. We appreciate that. okay. but that's very helpful. Yeah. Unknown: So. you know. really. the you know. the strength of the program is the fact that you know we can offer and lend to you at a point where. for the debt service incurred. there's not going to be a further surcharge onto the impact of the rates. right? And that's what we're really trying to target here. is recognizing that capital projects. just. you know. they scale to an extent. but not so much so that there's not an impact to your customers. And so we try to be somewhat sensitive to that in our approach. So that's yes. Judy. thank you. Is the rate locked in. it is okay. And what would determine. if it's a 20 year or 30 year. that would ultimately be the preference of you all as the owner. So you would at the time of permanent financing meeting. the project has been complete and that we're executing on a permanent loan. it would be structured based upon your input and decision at that George Uveges: time. Okay. in other words. what we apply for. right. right? Unknown: So the advantage of our programs. we have interim financing. So effectively. during the course of the construction project itself. you can borrow the money and pay all your bills. and at the time of project completion was when we would set in and lock in those terms for you. So effectively. you get the money upfront. and then we enter into debt service Once the project has completed. or in the course of a multi year project. we would try to target somewhere around the 50 or so percent mark to say we're going to lock you in an effective two years from now. you'll have to begin your repayment method so you have beneficial use of the very project before you start to incur those costs and recognize that debt service coming onto your books. George Uveges: But you're still paying the fee at that period of time. you're just not having to make a payment. Unknown: No. no. no. the fee. the fees and everything are deferred until the time of the project's completion in your first payment. right? George Uveges: But I understand that's the payment. But the question is. for that. let's say a project is two years. As we draw that money for the two years. there will be an interest that will be added on to the principal during that construction period. That's not free money. Unknown: It is free money up front. Yeah. So the. George Uveges: No. I'm talking about the payment. I understand we're not going to have to make a interest payment that the question is. is that there is no interest in my understanding correct charge during that two year period? That's correct. Unknown: That's correct. Yep. So the the interest is based. Upon the amount borrowed independent of the interim state. So whether you're utilizing a 14 month construction period or a 30 month construction period. that would be irrelevant. We are simply going to target the principal value borrowed independent of time. George Uveges: Okay. so the interest accrual doesn't start till the actual loan on after construction is occurred. That's correct. Yes. And what months did you say there were payments due Unknown: January and July? So we try to charge at the beginning of a fiscal year and then halfway through. so that you can try to forecast that as you go into your fiscal year projections and budget analysis. And as we approach the time of permanent financing. we would make sure that you're fully aware. We'd share with you those amortization schedules so that you're fully informed of what that first you know series of payments would be. Michael Wegerbauer: Okay? Good. Thank you very much. So sure thing only here. Greg and thank you for joining. We just want to confirm we would not be eligible for SRF if we were to construct in the flood zone. which is where the current facility stands. That's been our understanding. and we've made decisions based on that. If you have that answer Andy confirm that it'd be nice. but if not. that's okay. Unknown: There are avenues to say that work within a flood zone can be considered. provided that there are provisions to protect the critical features and functions therein and that were not negatively impacting said flood plain. right? So there. there are a couple of qualifiers to that understanding. and sometimes the effort to do that might not offset the value add of going through the program. Michael Wegerbauer: Yeah. it's not something we want to do just just trying to cross our t's and dot our eyes Unknown: understood. Great. awesome. So. if I may. I'm just going to touch upon timeline here a little bit. So we received. during our annual solicitation period this past summer. what we call a project evaluation form or PDF. And so in essence. that's an expression of interest for upcoming capital work that will be considered by the SRF program. So currently. we are in the process of reviewing and evaluating all of these expressions of interest that we have received across the state. and through that evaluation. we'll come up with a ranking based upon tiered scoring as to what we can and will fund in the upcoming calendar year. So that final deliverable to the public is called an intended use plan. So annually. our intended use plan catalogs and lists out all the projects that will be included and supported by SRF funding moving forward. So based upon historical timelines. we are targeting the issuance of a draft IUP list somewhere circa the end of the calendar year. likely maybe January of 2026 for the 2026 year. Okay. and following the presumption that the projects that were submitted make the list. we would then have a 18 month timeline from which the draft plan was published to when we would expect a the project to be underway. And so the end target date based upon that math. would be a contract award to a construction entity for the work. for the proposed work to occur no later than June. 30 of 2027. in the interim. we would look for A financial commitment from the town no later than June 30 of 2026. so effectively. what we're trying to do here is align our intended use plan to come out circa the time that you would advance warrant articles for consideration by your finance committees. and to make some sort of land agenda for your annual town meeting. by which you know that vote would then support the intended project. which is one of the commitments that we look to from a community in order to move forward on the the SRF program. The other milestone is typically fall of each calendar year. We get through June. we had a successful vote during the annual town meeting. Then the SRF loan application comes due in early October of that calendar year. and we start to get into the weeds of what we're looking for from an administrative and also a financial capacity in terms of do we. Have full rights to the parcel. or parcels or the project corridor. Have we done all of our external agency reviews and endangered species. natural heritage. any anything from mass historical. any impacts. to railroad corridors. MBTA. mass highway. DCR. etc. etc. So there's a pretty robust process there. and what that says that that's us up for is a successful procurement period at some time following the loan application. so that you can and your project team enter into the procurement process in accordance with mass general law. without any exceptions or flaws to that approach. Right? So in essence. our setup really protects you as the owner. And that's really what a lot of our checklists. what a lot of our deliverables are intended to do. is to protect you as owners. such that all of the intermediary steps are done in accordance with either the prevailing laws of Massachusetts and or the requirements of the SRF program. because. as you recall. we do collect monies. both federally and as a state match. and so with with that comes some requirements and regulations. So we try to have the T's and I's dotted in a sequential fashion. such that you're not overloaded with a large package. with the excitement of receiving a bid that's viable and wanting to move forward. So we kind of. you know. set things up across those 18 months from the draft IEP circa January of the year and the following June. George Uveges: Greg. one question going back to what you're talking about. the town commitment. we're going through a discussion now about whether it's going to be in water rates or real estate taxes or some combination. Does that matter to you at all in terms
Unknown: of the loan? Technically. no. We look. we look for the community to have a viable option for borrowing money against the SRF program. We do look that the water department is an enterprise fund where theoretically. the ability to pay for this comes via rates. However. there can be some conversation with the Clean Water trust as to how those payments are made. recognizing that oftentimes raising rates to match new debt service is not always the most viable solution. at least in the in the short term. right. having not raised rates preemptively. oftentimes. a reactionary rate increase might leave you with a slight gap In terms of your ability to make those payments.
Question. so I assume these are state funds and are not impacted by any matching funds from the federal government. Yes. No. not exactly. We do. We do rely on grants that come to us from the EPA. and then typically. there is a state match involved with the funding. So if for rough numbers. if we were to see. you know. a 20 or so. maybe 24% match to all federal funds at the state level that said. we do receive PFAS specific grant money on an annual basis. and so right now. we have in our possession grant monies that we can extend forward for the next calendar year. so we won't necessarily be immediately cut off should federal funding disappear. There's still other ways that we draw money in. both in terms of the state match. but also recycling funds coming in from older projects. right? We lend money out. it comes back. And so those three different streams. as we commingle them. do allow us to create a buffer to some of the ups and downs of funding streams as we go along. that could mean that in the future. we make some adjustments in terms of multi year projects. Maybe the commitment isn't in full in one fell swoop. So we offer the money to you in different tranches. But you know. as as it stands right now. our intent is to continue to fund projects to the maximum extent possible. And so it could be that we adjust it to say. Okay. if you have a $30 million project. we might only offer you $10 million in year number one. but then honor. you know. additional funding in a second year. as opposed to committing the full value of the projected cost upfront 30 million and deny several other projects the opportunity to proceed. And we look at the cash flow analysis and the intended burn rate so that you know there isn't a gap in the funding. but it's unlikely that in the first six to nine months there would be a $30 million draw. Work on a lot of our local. you know. PFAS driven projects. So it doesn't answer your question in full. but I don't have a crystal ball as to say. you know. how will Washington respond to different influences moving forward? But we're trying to guard against it. There's been a bit of austerity on our side in the last 18 months in anticipation of it. but as long as the money is there through continuing resolutions. we're going to continue getting it out on the street. George Uveges: just to build on Judy's comic. And I understand there. you know. who has a crystal ball comment. but is there any indication at this point from Washington that there's going to be a change in the funding under this program. Unknown: I think it depends on who you ask from Washington. That's a surprise. And again. not George. not to be cheeky. but I think that right now. we just have to understand that. you know. independent of politics. there are real needs here by everyone you know. whether it's to take a shower. have a cup of tea. Enjoy a cup of coffee. You know. there's a real value here to supporting the projects that we endeavor to complete. So I think that. independent of some of the ripples and waves that we're experiencing. will find a way of. you know. supporting the projects that we commit to. and we're only going to commit to those projects that we feel that we can fund. So let's say. for example. in the next four months. we get some big updates that will impact how we draft our intended use plan. So that. you know. we're making a commitment to maybe a few fewer projects. but those projects will be supported. Or we say. All right. folks. we're going to do. you know. some sort of crazy scenario where we're going to fund everything 50% year one and try to transfer the balance over. So again. this is me just kind of spit balling different possibilities that we could do in order to maintain that commitment. But we were not just going to go and say. oh. yeah. every everybody gets a treatment plant and then not be able to honor that commitment in the second year. should the funding streams kind of dry up? George Uveges: I understand. Thank you. Out of the number of projects that you have requests for funding. what's your normal percentage that you will say yes to? Unknown: Well. that number is decreasing for this very fact that we have inserted measures of austerity so the drinking water program is over prescribed on an annual basis. and not so much driven by the lack of money out of Washington. but more the. you know. very real need of a lot of PFAS and the remediation or elimination thereof. So I'd say that on the drinking water side of the of the faucet. We're probably trending around a 1/3 to 40% funding out of the total ask. But with that in mind. we're not necessarily receiving 100% of PFAS projects. booster pump stations. water storage tanks. water main replacement. so the full gamut of the distribution system. supply and treatment. So. you know. we try to prioritize and triage the projects that you know offer them the most value in terms of need basis. Are there great projects out there every year? You bet. do we? Do we cringe that we can't fund them all. sure. but we have to draw the last somewhere. okay? George Uveges: And if you. if you are not. not in that 1/3 or 40% is that a no forever. or is that you go back into the pool next year? Unknown: It's. it's a no for the for the calendar year and consideration. George Uveges: okay? So you can get. you might get it to next year. Unknown: you'd have to reapply. You simply copy and paste from the prior year and then kind of refresh that expression of interest. But yes. it would be considered without any sort of additional bias or any sort of prejudice toward it. It would be an objective review moving George Uveges: forward. Does it help if it's your second year. or is it irrelevant? Unknown: That's irrelevant. Okay. thank you.
Tom Holder: One question that's been posed Greg is. is there a principle forgiveness component to this? Unknown: There is principal forgiveness offered through the program the the town of Wayland. however. based upon our kind of economic and adjusted income models. doesn't necessarily qualify for any additional principal forgiveness. Now. that said. I don't want to you know. just throw out there a stinging rebuke in the arena of PFAS. we reduce the amount of principal forgiveness across the board. Why? Because you're already borrowing at 0% so there's already an economic advantage to having to deal with a more expensive topic. But in the case of Wayland. no. there wouldn't be any additional principal forgiveness offered. So.
George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Craig. is you Unknown: have more or do we? No. I want to be mindful of the time and again. I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation with you all and hopefully answer a few questions and not leave more cause for concern or uncertainty as we navigate the process George Uveges: uncertainty and this kind of thing. I can't imagine anybody have questions. Judy. Mike. Mike. anything else? Michael Wegerbauer: Ed. I'm sorry. Just one nothing here. Thanks for your time. Gregory. if you were in a tight situation. and it sounds like PFAS might be somewhat prioritized over some other projects. but didn't have the full funding available. Would it? Would it be not you? You? Would you possibly come back to us with an option to fund a portion. because we have two major activities ongoing. coming up with the connection to the MWRA. as well as the plant construction? Unknown: Yeah. I mean that that's certainly in the cards. Mike. I think that whether it was one large project or a series of contracts. we would certainly try to find a way. And if there are other funding vehicles in play. we can certainly. you know. kind of CO fund a project. whether it's grant monies for design permitting or another sort of grant opportunity during the construction phase. We can. we can blend those streams together. George Uveges: Great are funded over the two years. as you talked about. right? Unknown: Yeah. so. you know. we look at the SRF program as kind of a. you know. financial safety net that you can insert different funding mechanisms throughout. And the advantages of our program are that. you know. we can be offer that interim financing package. so you can kind of. you know. triage through if certain funds need to be spent early or grant monies. or sun setting. you know. get that money inserted into the project early on. and then rely on us and. you know. the latter stages of a of a project. George Uveges: So Greg. I can guarantee you. we won't be shy about getting everything that qualifies under the program. Unknown: Nor should you be. You You have to respond back to your customer base. and you're right payer. so I would assume nothing less. Okay. George Uveges: Spellman. anything all good? Okay? Judy Ed. it's not all right. Tom. do you have anything that you want to add? Tom Holder: No. I do not. I very much appreciate Greg attending with us tonight. provided a lot of necessary information. and we'll we'll be talking soon. Greg. George Uveges: sure thing. We appreciate it. and we will follow up as other things come up. I can guarantee you. please do. Unknown: I'm here for just Michael Wegerbauer: that. Thank you. Thank you. Greg. Thank you. Thanks. Greg. George Uveges: Okay. we have three other topics under this listing. Tom Holder: Yep. I can take the next one. design impacts to project cost. As you know. we've just reached the 30% design milestone a month or two ago. We're now proceeding towards a 60% design threshold milestone. And to date. we are not aware of any issues that are before us that would cause the cost of the project to increase. There are. you know. a number of things that the MWRA is asking of us relative to the alignment of the transmission main. how we actually secure that. you know. the close proximity to the Haltman aqueduct. you know. has them paying very close attention to that. But even with those requests. we are still confident that we're maintaining the current cost projections.
George Uveges: Okay. questions by anybody? Okay. discussion of town funding options. Do you want to start Tom or you want me to start? Tom Holder: I think that that is a topic in other folks court George Uveges: nice punch. Okay. I understand I haven't been able to see the Select Board WayCAM from yesterday because it's not up yet. but Tom tells me they spent about an hour talking about this. The impact. or impression I get from both the Finance Committee and listening to people on the Select Board. Is there some discussion about. do you fund it all with real estate taxes. or do you split it between the two. between happy hollow and the MWRA? And what as we get down later into some of the slides that will be presented. you'll see the impact of that split. We've split our analysis into the three pieces being the new non MWRA. happy hollow. happy hollow and MWRA increases. I'm not sure that we will get a quick answer. They have said that they believe they have until December with the drafting of the warrant to make that decision. And if they do the one loan option. there's like two ways. one exempt borrowing in in total. and one where the Select Board can decide on a periodic. ie. annual or more basis. how much to cover in real estate taxes. that that decision is not there yet. so we're going to have to keep providing them information and having meetings until we Get to probably December. when an actual decision will be made. But at this point. I don't think that the Select Board has made any decision. They're still in a trying to gather information stage. They did vote down the peer review at two meetings ago. so that that prevents that project from slowing down what we're going through. And I think that's basically the total anybody have any questions I can try and answer. Tom can try and answer.
Okay. so the message is. stay tuned. We'll get back to you on that from the Select Board. Okay. review of happy hollow repairs. Tom Holder: Tom. yep. I'm going to hand that off to Don he's directly managing that effort. Don Millette: Hello. everybody. I'll keep it short so the we completed the second round of repairs on Friday afternoon. The glue set up over the weekend. my staff and I pressure tested and drew a bacteria sample yesterday. a few minutes ago. the test results came back negative for E coli. so we will be putting the system back into operation first thing tomorrow morning. George Uveges: good. and the cost is going to be within what we had from the in the excess capital funds from prior projects. So there's no hit. as I understand it. to the expenses for the year. correct? Okay. with that coming online. Do you have any idea when we're going to be able to cancel the watering band?
Don Millette: Good question. The state just ramped up our drought alert. so we are now in a. I believe it's a level two drought currently. right now. So I did not get a chance to look at the flow of the Sudbury river there before the meeting started. but I can follow up after this meeting with an answer on that. George Uveges: All right. would you let the board know on that? Yes. obviously. one of the questions is how much water we can be pumping and billing. I know that with it coming online. you'll be able to stop the emergency correct news. and Tom has assured us that that's not going to it's going to it's going to be expensive. but not put a large dent in the contingency. Tom. do you remember what you said the dollar amount that you think it's going to be? Tom Holder: We calculated back of the napkin about $2.300 a day. It's been operating for about three weeks. So you know. in the order of. yeah. 5050. George Uveges: grand. okay. okay. yeah. if you can let us know that. because obviously I'd like to just from the business side. the ability to start to pump some of that water would help in terms of meeting what we signed up for in terms of revenue. Yes. Fay. yes. So that being able to pump. Don Millette: yeah. yeah. So we'll be shutting that the MWRA connection off tomorrow. once happy is up and running. and then I have to reach out to the state to ask them to lift the emergency declaration. So. you know. there's a little bit of time there. but I will definitely follow up ASAP with an answer for you. George Uveges: Thank you very much. Anybody have questions Michael Wegerbauer: so don this was on for about three weeks. We were on we're using the emergency connection for about. Three weeks is that correct? Don Millette: Yes. The the first repair took place on September 5. so. yeah. yeah. about about three weeks. Cool. Michael Wegerbauer: We're about 80 cubic feet per second. Don Millette: Oh. cool. okay.
Michael Wegerbauer: I know that's very low. Don Millette: I believe our threshold is 74 I think is our trigger. so I just need to double check on that. But I believe that's the number. okay.
George Uveges: okay. Anything else for that section? All right. Tom the lead service pipe replacement program. Tom Holder: Just to provide a little bit of background. I'm sure the board members of some are familiar with what we call the lead and copper rule. and that's been a regulation that's been in place for from. you know. many years. and we've. you know. been performing sampling and analysis notification of folks that have homes that are built in particular periods of of time. that where lead solder may have been used. lead pipe may have been used as a result of. you know. the episode that occurred years ago in Flint. Michigan. the EPA and mass DEP now have the revised lead and copper rule. revised LCR. revised. And as part of that. we're required to do additional sampling. And if you recall. we had $139.000 grant from the state to perform a lead service line inventory. And that's all part of what is being called a lead service line replacement program. So we performed the inventory we have that. It's actually up on our website. We've got significant amount of information relative to that on our website. We've got a GIS layer that shows all of that. But the next steps that the water division and the town need to take is that we need to investigate a number of those lead service lines. geographic sampling of what the lead of what the service line material is. Once we affirm that we are required to replace any lead service that we own. any service lines that are unknown. and there is a possibility that it might be practical and feasible to assist homeowners with their side of things. So Kirsten Ryan with Kleinfelder is joining us tonight. I know that she had asked a colleague. Ajay to to join I see him here as well. So with that. I'd like to turn it over to Kirsten and Ajay to to offer up an overview of what I'm what I'm talking about. Kirsten Ryan: Thank you. Tom. hi everybody. Kirsten Ryan. project manager from Kleinfelder. here to give you an update on this program. Have a slide deck that I'm going to collaborate with. with Ajay Sharma. my colleague. and provide you that update. So let me get that going.
Unknown: I did this correctly. No. Kirsten Ryan: you're not seeing the right screen. Are you? Tom Holder: Well. we're seeing the presentation. It's not. it's not the slideshow format. but we can. we can see your screen which. which shows all the slides in left hand column in George Uveges: the you know. I think she just has to click on this. begin the slideshow. Unknown: You go. okay. Kirsten Ryan: always takes a second anyway. So. yeah. So Tom said this has been an ongoing project. I believe we started about two years ago. so kind of a slow and steady product progress. but we finished up. really. in the spring of this past of this year. So. so there's a lot of information here. and I'll try to. you know. go slow enough to explain. but not so. so slow that we're running over our time. Lot of acronyms as all these federal rules tend to be. It's a federal rule. the lead and copper rule. and it's got several versions. as Tom mentioned. the lead and copper rule originally was published in 1991 and then revised in 2021 to get to the LCR R. which were current. Only under right now. the LCR i is the lead and copper rule improvements that comes into effect in November 2027 and that is going to have profound implications for compliance with this. Going forward. it's it's a much more robust. So we're going to talk about that. So first I want to just talk about what we got done under this grant that Tom mentioned the overall program purpose of it's all about inventory. At this point. your service lines. This is what was required on the under the LCR are. you know. it's all about public health. really. at the end of the day. trying to identify if there are any lead or like containing service lines left in the ground. Most towns. including Wayland there. there aren't any. we have not found any lead lines in Wayland. What? We have a lot of incomplete information. so we're working to build that all out. So some there is a website that the town has up. It's got a lot of great information on it. and ways that people can check their own lines. which we'll talk about a little bit. So this grant was from mass DEP. We conducted really four tasks. record review and data screening. inventory development and GIS mapping. So the inventory is on the website. I would say it's complete as it needed to be for this grant. It's it's a work in progress. We'll talk about that. We did some public outreach and then put together a compliance plan. which we'll talk about going forward. So we looked a lot of historical records. all the tie cards. assessors database. we used a technique called optical character recognition. along with AI software to help get all those paper. handwritten records and try to review them quickly. And we also QE you see them manually by hand. Michael Wegerbauer: Can I ask yeah question. so. when we installed the new meters. Tom or Don were we able to review or Kirsten. were we able to review and see if there were lead lead piping being used. or is that not something that's visible when you're installing a meter? Kirsten Ryan: I mean. I could. so I know that was part of what the work for that contractor was asked to do. Yeah. I've seen a draft database. so I believe that it's still getting finalized. but that is definitely going to be very valuable information. That's going to be a great source of information to establish what the privately owned portion of the service line is and right? You know we have to the rule says you need to establish material for any any line that's older than 1986 has to be determined. And if it's unknown. then it's essentially treated as if it wasn't lead. So the map from this initial effort is on the website. interactive map.
And this is as of you know. last fall was the compliance deadline for getting that initial service line inventory. So you'll hear different. different terms. There's this phase of the project was the initial Service Inventory. as much as information as you could possibly get. By November 2024. was compiled. zero lead 12. what's called galvanized requiring replacement. This is when. if you have a galvanized pipe that you cannot prove. was never that there was never any lead upstream of it. then it's treated as if it may contain lead. because it could absorb lead over time. We also did review historical records from the town. but you know. back in the day people. it just wasn't tracked. You know. I know most communities. whenever they would find any. they would rip it out. and that's the case here. So we have about 42% of the system. probably less now. because this doesn't account for the meter replacement data. but as of last winter. about 42% still unknown. I mentioned the directed GIS map. You can go in for yourself and check what your property. what the data is showing right now. And we are encouraging folks to update on that information if you think it's an error. And I believe the next slide talks about public outreach. Yes. that's part of this. Was trying to ask residents to help out with the effort also. so that we didn't have to. you know. go poke around their basements. Nobody really likes people doing that. So we developed several materials. Um during the course of the project. and you may remember them. but last summer. we developed a postcard sort of explained how people could check their own service line. either by going and reporting it through a web link or using the QR code information on how to reduce your exposure to lead by running your cap. you know. just in case of the precaution. and we also that QR code pops up a web app that you can. you know. walks you through how to enter your information. So that's something that's still up and available and will remain so. you know. more public. more publicizing of that might be a good thing to do as part of a next phase when we see what. what data is still outstanding.
So kind of just summarizing a little bit of what I touched on here is those deliverables under the the LCR are we completed a last October. that initial Service Inventory. as I mentioned. then the public. we're required to. the town is required to send out notifications to anybody who had a lead galvanized requiring replacement or GRR or unknown service line. So. you know. as a precaution with health ways to protect yourself. if you might have a lead line. or if we're not sure what you have. So those things have all been checked off. The next thing is looking forward to this lcri And those compliance timelines. So by November 1 of 2027 is the next milestone in which you need to submit what's they're calling a baseline inventory. And why that. What that means is that forms the baseline from which your compliance plan for replacing any lead or GRR lines needs to start. and you need to replace 10% per year. So we're trying to get as many classified. The goal would be to try to get as many unknowns classified by that time. so that your replacement rate is more manageable. And Ajay is going to get into a little bit of weeds here with some of those requirements. George Uveges: Christian before. before we go. There just 111. comment. if I could. one of my concerns. and I've talked to Tom about this. is the cost to the town. for example. for any of the town buildings or schools that might have lead piping that needs to be replaced. or the lines that Are the town responsibility up to the users. residents section. and then the cost. if they decide to pay for or somehow come up with a funding program for residents that have it that's not built into the capital plan. And I think we need to start to make them aware of this potential. because it may impact what they're going to sign up to do on other things. So the sooner or the faster that we can get some of this information. even if we don't have a cost yet. but can at least identify those potential items. I think that would be a service to the town. so that we can start to get them to think about it. Because I can guarantee you. there probably isn't a lot of thought going into this right now in terms of the five year capital plan.
Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. I we have. we have put some thought towards that. We have some very high level estimates that we've been working with based on similar projects we're doing. lead service line replacements for the town of City of Somerville. for example. So we. I think. have enough information at this point to put ballpark numbers for your use. and that would be. as we get to later in the slide deck. sort of part of the plan going forward. right? Yeah. yeah. George Uveges: Because I think. you know. we have a obligation to start to get people to think about some of this. Yeah. absolutely. Kirsten Ryan: Thank you. Yeah. you're welcome. So. yeah. I'm gonna turn it over Jay to kind of get a little bit into the weeds about the requirements. I think he can probably keep it at a fairly high level. Unknown: But over to you. Ajay. thanks. Kirsten. yeah. I'm going to do my best here to keep it at a high level. The intent. really with this slide here is to just outline the number of requirements under the lcri. But my goal here is to just make this a little bit more digestible and then Kirsten. if you go over to the next George Uveges: slide. before you go off of that slide. sure. second Sure. The last box on the right hand side says sampling of secondary schools on request only are we going to make sure we sample all of our secondary schools so we're not leaving anybody out. Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. that's at your discretion. I mean. I think it's a great idea to do that. George Uveges: So Tom I can't commit for the town. but I would think that not to do that would raise reasonable questions. Let's put it that way. Tom Holder: yeah. we actually work with the facilities department right now in assisting them towards their sampling program. Okay? I
George Uveges: just would hate to have somebody look at that and say. Oh. we're not doing them all. Yep. yep. You don't care about my kids. Yeah. I understand 100%
Unknown: curious. If you wouldn't mind going to the next slide here. So. like I mentioned. the way to kind of make all of these different requirements digestible is breaking it down here into three phases. So. like. here's some just talk through phase one is everything up until July 1 of 2025. with the two major deliverables being the initial service line inventory that was submitted. as well as notifying any customer last November who had a lead GRR or unknown service line with a specific letter. So everything up to that point is completed. Now. what we're calling phase two is everything from now until 2027 again. November 1 2027. being the time. or the day. I should say that the LCR I officially goes into effect. So the way that we're or essentially what we're calling this. is a proactive compliance plan. And what we're recommending here for all these various bullets here in a phase two. in phase two. with the most important item being to eliminate unknowns and also replacing your known letter. grr service lines. But the heavy emphasis here is really on eliminating unknowns. and that'll be the first thing I talk through here. So Kirsten. I think we go to the next slide. I think it's just highlighted. There we go. and then the one after that. So how exactly do we plan to eliminate unknowns? Or let me start and back up here. Why are we planning to eliminate unknowns and replacing any known lead and gr service lines all before 2027 The goal here is really to take an administrative burden off of the town. like we had to do last November. of notifying every customer who had a lead GRR or unknown service line. if you no longer have any unknowns. no longer have any lead or gr service side service lines. you'll no longer need to continually send those notifications out. That is one of the things under this rule. is that as long as you continue to have a single unknown GRR or lead service lines. those notifications will need to continue to go out. In addition. one of the newer requirements of the lcri is also a brand new sampling protocol. so this will change how the sample is being taken. And not just that. but the lead action level exceedance will go down from 15 parts per billion down to 10. So with that new protocol in mind. there is a higher chance here of getting super close to that new action level exceedance. and ideally without any unknowns. any letter grrs. Even with the new sampling protocol. your likelihood of getting close to that lead. Action level exceedance is significantly reduced. And again. just emphasizing here. we're trying to reduce administrative the administrative burden on the town. because. again. the folks that such as the town. the folks that are going to be attending to the calls when those notifications go out. ongoing questions and concerns. that obviously takes a lot of resources and town staff to handle. George Uveges: Now. when you say town staff. are you really referring to Tom staff? Absolutely okay. I just want to make sure that we differentiate between what's going to fall on the water department and the other town. Because one of the obvious questions is. after we're through with the grant and we're into all these other costs. What is going to be the cost of the program? Who is going to bear that cost. ie water rates or the town. and what's the staffing level that's going to be required to do that? So we can build it into our financial forecast? Because my guess. remembering the model. None of this is in future cost for us. Is that correct? Tom Holder: Tom. yeah. we have not placed any. you know. cost placeholders in any of our budgets. whether it be operational or capital. for this program. So this. this will be something. as you mentioned. we will now be inserting. George Uveges: okay. and have to talk to Mike McCall in terms of how and what does he want. Does he want to put this in the water department or as a separate expense going forward. and who's going to pay? Whose dime is it coming from? Because this is not going to. This is not. I assume. a cheap process. It is not. And right now. as they're looking at the prop two and a half override. this is all going to be in addition to any costs that are currently out there.
Unknown: And I'll touch on some. uh. some of the specific ways that we're going to help provide that cost to George here in the coming slides. Kirsten Ryan: yeah. we'll talk about funding sources as well. Yeah. it's. it's not a real rosy picture at the moment. for George Uveges: funding for this. Why should this be different from anything else we're dealing Kirsten Ryan: with? And the PFAS is like kind of overshadowing this. even right on the on the larger should I go next slide? Ajay. yes. please. Unknown: Yep. So the question is. now. how exactly do you eliminate unknowns? And one of the most cost effective solutions. or approaches to this is using a predictive model and Kirsty. go to the next slide. Essentially what we're proposing here is using a predictive model to classify all your remaining unknowns. And all that would that would entail is essentially the unknowns. Right now. Kirsten. do you remember how many were on our first slide there? I don't. Okay. no worries. I think it was. it was above 1000 or so. Yeah. at least. And so if Kirsten Ryan: I can just interrupt this real quick. I just want to make sure people are aware that this methodology is one we've already been using. It's mass DEP accepts this methodology. You know. it's. it's not something that is like. unique to our approach. necessarily. or its industry. It's. it's pretty much become part of industry standard. right? Unknown: And the reason for that. and the reason why it's become an industry standard. it allows you to not have to dig up every single unknown location. The idea here. and again. being dictated by state guidance. is that based on the total number of services that the town has. that would include total being all of the known and unknown led Grr. the state guidance would then dictate a couple 100 locations that are randomly chosen in which you would need to know the material meaning that those would be the locations that you would go out and investigate. You would get the material information for. and then you would use that information to train the predictive model. And the idea here is that once that predictive model is trained. it's going to assign a probability of lead at all of the remaining unknowns. and depending on how much lead is found. So for for right now there. there hasn't been any lead found. However. this model would still treat the GRR that has been found as lead. and it will assign a probability. allowing us to prioritize inspections. again. with the goal that will not have to dig up every single unknown location in the town. George Uveges: Yeah. the answer your question. your unknowns are 20 200.2 100. Unknown: Perfect. Thank you. Any questions on this.
Kirsten Ryan: and then we'd use a random. randomized approach. so that's not biased. right. Unknown: correct. exactly the and the biases that that Kirsten is alluding to. we would want to make sure that the couple 100. and we're talking about three shy of 400 300 Yeah. 360 year ish locations. We want to make sure that all of those locations. for example. are preferentially homes that were built after 1986 or newer developments. We want to try to capture a good representative snapshot of the entire town. but only with just shy of 400 holes. Essentially. next slide. please. Pearson. and then. sorry. the one before that. It's a little delayed. What's that? The slide? Right. perfect. So again. eliminating unknowns here and then replacing any of the known lead that come up services. That's going to be a big emphasis here for phase two. that also tends to be the most expensive part of what we're proposing as part of phase two. And then the other components that we're going to be talking about is public outreach. and then sampling plan updates. Then I can go to the next slide here. Pearson. So public outreach. again. like I emphasized earlier. as long as a service in the town remains to be unknown. letter. grr. those notifications will continue need to go out. The state has also made some updates to that. so that'll include wanting to keep. or essentially keeping those notifications up to date before they go out to customers. And then. Kirsten Ryan: Essentially that deadline is coming up around again. So I think it's actually Unknown: it's December 31. of 2025 Yeah. Kirsten Ryan: So what you'll see at the end our plan in the near future is to update the inventory that exists as right now with what the information from the meter replacement program. and then those notifications will have to go out by the end of December based on that update. Unknown: Sorry. no. you're good. You're good. And then the next item. second bullet here. when services are inventoried using a. for example. vacuum excavation. any of those locations. and specifically the customers that live at those locations. they're going to need to receive a specific notification that has specific education materials about why this inventory and work is being done and ways to protect themselves. again. just being mandated by the regulation. So it has a lot of the same required language that the notifications last November had. In addition. the lcri does have additional requirements on if a lead. action level exceedance is ever met that notification form. But also need to have additional language. And then lastly. here there is a new Consumer Confidence Report regulation. So obviously that would necessitate going through that. seeing what's pertinent to lead and copper rule improvements. the new Reg. and making sure that that content is also updated in your wallet. water quality reports and then sampling plan updates. similar to what I mentioned earlier. not only is the protocol sampling going to change. however. there will also be new locations in which those samples need to be taken. So that is another thing that we'd be proposing is make sure your staff are trained and know how to take those samples with the new protocol in mind. and then helping to select those new locations. Next slide. please. Kirsten. And then the very last item here is the historical 90th percentile analysis. Basically. again. we just be taking a look at how your lead sample results have historically looked. Analyze it to make sure that you're not going to be in jeopardy when the new action level goes into play. And if need be. like I said. analyze that. perform a study. and again. with the new action level coming down from 15 parts billion down to 10. along with the new sampling protocol. there could be a higher likelihood if there still is any letter GRR in the system after 2027 of getting close to that action level. So that would be a part of what we'd be proposing here. And then next slide. please. Kirsten. so in terms of estimated costs. we'll go into a little bit more detail about what we're proposing as our next scope for this project. However. the one thing I did want to highlight there is just based on the current status of the inventory. And again. Mike. to your point earlier. this does not include any of the updates that would be made to the inventory based on the meter change our program. So current status wise. based on what we'd be looking at to replace any of the currently known gr service lines. as well as what we're projecting based on what we've seen so far of our encounter rate to lead and gr service lines. replacement total would come out to just shy of about million dollars. And George. to your point earlier. this is just very high level numbers. However. as part of our next scope. we are going to put together a more cohesive plan that will go into a little bit more detail to round out these numbers just a bit based on what we know and some of the existing clients that we support. George Uveges: Okay. quick question. This slide says it's starting in 228 the slide that you set out before said this amount is going to be before 2027 Correct? Unknown: Yeah. So that's this slide here. starting 2028 is the more accurate slide. This slide here. Kirsten Ryan: I think it might be up to the town how quickly you'd want to get into this like so you're not required to have everything replaced. I just want to make sure everybody's clear. You're not required to have all of those lines identified and replaced by 2028 or by 2027 it would be I it would be beneficial if it was. it was possible. you know. so that's why this is kind of a. like a more aspirational plan. But. you know. I think you. I think you can definitely accomplish the inventory being complete by November 2027. I. Yeah. so I guess I just don't. I just don't want to have expectations be too unrealistic. George Uveges: Okay. and the and the inventory is a 74.000 or is that not the inventory? Kirsten Ryan: Yes. it is. So this. this is quite different than some other communities. in that we understand that you have a vacuum excavator. and. you know. this assumes that the town is able to actually perform the physical work of of looking. you know. of uncovering the line so that we can identify it with our. you know. with some of our support. So. yeah. George Uveges: okay. so as you put your your cost sheet together. I think it would be beneficial to put. you know. the actual due dates that has to be done by such and such a date. Or you would do it between X and Y dates. so that people can better estimate when in the expenses are going to have to be taken care of. Unknown: Absolutely. Yeah. right. Yeah. And George. just to clarify your point there. yes. we would basically put together a cost with not just the required dates of when everything would need to get done. but also what we're making recommending as part of this proactive compliance plan. And we can differentiate the two. George Uveges: Yeah and Tom. I think you need to talk to Brian and find out if this kind of cost can be borrowed or has to be paid in the year. because you're just replacing something that you have and doing some a lot of inventory work. So I'm not sure that you could borrow for this. but we need to know one way or the other. It would be nice not to have that hit all in one year. But what the life is. and if it can be borrowed. is. is going to be the question for our investment bankers? Tom Holder: Yep. Good point. You know. we'll be working with Brian soon on this. So very good point.
Kirsten Ryan: Like curiously. yeah. so that having the. the your piece of equipment. to be able to do those. to dig those. you know. little holes. is going to save you. like. several million dollars. I mean. it is a lot of labor. though. so that is. like a consideration. um. you know. for the DEP w to be able to take that on. I think. you know. that's something to consider. Tom Holder: you know. So our intent is. you know. Don and myself and his team will be work working out a schedule so that we have enough coverage to to handle the stations. but then also assign two individuals to operate that factor truck and to be able to. you know. on a daily basis. make stops with that equipment and perform the vacuum excavation. So that's that's our intent. Kirsten Ryan: Yep. I think it's great. George Uveges: yeah. and that would be good because that's not an incremental expense that's already built into your labor structure.
Kirsten Ryan: So this graphic is a draft of. you know. kind of how we're trying to envision this playing out over time. You know. we're here. We're This is the inventory phase two that that we'd like to start on working with the DEP W to run our. you know. predictive model in the randomizer to establish this list of 361 locations that need to be excavated. preparing notifications for the homeowner to make sure they're They know what's happening. And then. you know. being able to. based on those results. revise that inventory again. and then revise the program cost estimates and apply for funding. So this is kind of how we're looking at it playing out. And then. you know. we have the year one replacement. starting. you know. in summer of 2028. I think might be a little. I don't know that it could be possible to accomplish that prior. you know. I think the other thing that the board and the town will need to think about is how to handle. how they want to handle the private side replacements that are required. because that could be. you know. a challenging thing to think through. George Uveges: especially if you have to go underneath the house or whatever to get to those pipes. Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. if it's a longer run. you know. if there's. I don't know. a stone wall or something there. There's different ways different communities have gone about it. The MWRA does have a program. you know. and you would. you know. we expect that you would become members sometime. you know. during 20. 2027 they do have a program that the financing terms are more favorable than the SRF program for service replacements. And you will find that the SRF funding requires a full replacement. You can't take SRF loan money to just replace the public side. You would need to replace the whole the whole side. So. you know. some communities have already doing it that way. Some have concerns about about that. So that's something we can we can continue the conversation around. And I'm sorry I should have explained the colors like the orange. Here are the deadlines. and this is that the deadlines where things kick in for the lcri. the sampling. the new sampling protocols kick in in January of 2028 as well. So.
okay. couple more slides. and then we'll be almost done here. So. you know. mentioned. vacuum excavation is very costly. so the town can perform that. which is wonderful. I touched upon SRF. They have they're currently offering loans. and unfortunately. not grants at this time to fund the type of inventory work that we're describing us as our immediate next steps. and they're available on a rolling basis that you know. knowing that the town has their own excavator. I don't think it's worth pursuing. you know. alone to get reimbursed for the effort. since it's. you know. relatively lower cost compared to a town that needed to hire an excavator for 300 locations. So there are construction loans available at this time for the replacement work. As I mentioned. those are also open on a rolling basis. so you don't have to wait for the typical SRF cycle. Again. mentioned that require full service replacement. However. you do need to appropriate the money locally. so you would have to get. you know. a warrant vote
in order to apply. So that's something to consider. and they do not. they do not fund the design of the replacement. you know. bid package design or bidding of a service replacement contract is not eligible. So there's another. you know. self funded thing to consider. George Uveges: Just have a little unclear the replacement activity. When would you say that would start? Kirsten Ryan: I think. I think in summer of 2028.
George Uveges: so about the same time as we'd be hitting them with the with the MWRA loan cost.
Tom Holder: and it requires. I mean. the lcri requires 10% per year. Is that the expectation? Yes. So. you know. Kirsten Ryan: assuming you have relatively few it is. You don't have to do it this way. You know. I think it's just. if it's feasible. it's desirable.
George Uveges: I'm just wondering what we're gonna be telling people as we go through. okay. okay.
Kirsten Ryan: we have prepared a task order to assist with this next phase we mentioned. I guess the other number was a little bit off. but anyway. our scope would include support for the inspection process the town. vacancing the public side. We would be usually utilizing the predictive modeling. you know. kind of guiding the town on the at list of addresses to investigate. updating the inventory. updating the GIS. submitting it to DEP. updating the GIS map. providing those required consumer notices. providing some content for the CCR. water quality report. disturbance notifications. really A lot of public outreach assistance we had also built in a couple more updates for the board and formalizing that clients plan and assistance with applying for a loan. George Uveges: and this would be physical 26 Project. correct. correct. Correct? And that is not in our current budget. right? Tom Holder: It would be under contracted services. George Uveges: I knew I understand where it'd be under. but that wasn't the question. Tom. Question is. do you have enough money in your budget to do this? And the other things you had planned.
Unknown: it will be. yeah.
George Uveges: So something said. get a gift. Okay.
Kirsten Ryan: Okay. lastly. let's see just wrapping up here. Yeah. I didn't. I don't know if there's this. I don't. I don't remember if you have a fall town 2025. town meeting that these are just questions for discussion. For that. you know. spring. obviously. I know you're putting in capital requests in the near term for the spring appropriation. So just it is an aggressive timeline that we laid out. and the cost would be rough approximations. But you know. the trade off of kind of delaying overall progress would be higher long term costs and regulatory burden. potentially and possible public concern. So these are just some things to consider. And I think that's all we have. Men. Tom Holder: As you can see. this is a significant issue. significant effort required. significant cost. You know. we wanted to get this information out to the board to to brief you on what this is all about. And so. you know. we'll be planning on how to pay for it. how to staff it. But it's not optional. So it's one of these things that we have to we have to figure out. Kirsten Ryan: well. I guess we probably should have mentioned that. You know. with the federal government changes. there was some thought that maybe that certain elements would be rolled back. or whatever. but they the Trump administration has a firm support for this rule. This they have come out and said the EPA has come out and said they are not going to roll this one back. Did I say that correctly? AJ. yeah. yeah. Unknown: And then we also know that the state. Massachusetts. is planning on also writing the same regulation into their own state regulations. and mass DEP could make some of these requirements a little bit more stringent. So we know. at a bare minimum. the LCR requirements established by the federal government need to be met.
Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. yeah. We did have an earlier slide that the replacements have all have to be done by 2037 so there is. there is quite a timeline in that helps. help cities where they have. you know. 1000s of these things to deal with. right? If there's a handful of them and it's feasible to just deal with them. You know. it's something to think about. so
George Uveges: a lot to take in. Kirsten Ryan: Yes. I know it's George Uveges: very informative. Okay. Tommy. if you go through this at all with Mike McCall Tom Holder: in passing. so he needs to have a better understanding of this as well.
George Uveges: Okay. questions by the board ADU. Unknown: So my understanding is that so far. we have found zero lead. Is that have Tom? I guess maybe there's a Tom question. have we looked at all of the municipal buildings. the school buildings? Is that in the zero?
Tom Holder: Now. I recall in the inventory. there were 12. What was the 12 that we had to do? You remember? What if you want Unknown: to see your locations? George Uveges: What is it about the galvanized?
Unknown: Yeah. the galvanized. right. damn. Are you asking where the GR locations were? Tom Holder: Yeah. I just and trying to was. I don't. I don't know. particularly. you know where these locations are. but Kirsten Ryan: I don't know off the top of my head about the schools. I mean. I just want to clarify. though. that we're talking about the the regulation covers the service. where it comes from. the meter. I mean. I'm sorry. from the street and to the house to the meter. It doesn't cover the premise plumbing. which is the plumbing internal to the building. George Uveges: but it does cover from the street to the house. Kirsten Ryan: Yes. that's service. Yeah. Unknown: okay. And there also would be. there may not be. there might be daycares. but on your existing lead and copper sampling plan. there would be a couple schools at least on that list and which samples are being taken. Is that right? Tom. Don Don Millette: Yeah. correct. So. so currently. right now. under the current rules. we're required to take two samples from two different schools. and we do it on a rotating basis. Typically. I'll. I'll rotate the town. Buildings. the town schools. and then I will have a separate list of rotating for the daycares in town. Unknown: And so far. we have not found lead. Is that correct? Correct? Don Millette: I mean. we've been sampling. you know. for lead and copper my entire career in the water industry. And. you know. like here in Wayland. you know. currently. right now. we. we have never violated the 90 percentile rule. So that means. you know. out of the the. I'm sorry. out of the 30 required samples that were required to take. you know. you basically figure out your 90th percentile. and that number cannot exceed the state and federal. you know. lead and copper level.
George Uveges: I am now confused. but that's okay.
Unknown: What I'm trying to figure out is that's a non answer to your question. Judy. are we going to have a really big problem? We're going to have a very small problem. And if all the municipal buildings and the daycares and schools are tested on a regular basis and they all pass muster. whatever the current rules are.
Don Millette: it's really these unknowns. Well. it's. it's. it's really the unknowns. you know. And and those unknowns are most likely going to be in the old. older areas of town where. you know. galvanized pipes were used. you know. like back in the day. you know. And those. those are the ones that we're going to have to investigate. George Uveges: Don you're testing. though. is that lead in the water? Or were you testing for lead pipes on the property? Don Millette: We we sample the water for for lead. am copper. George Uveges: So okay. but that's different. You know. if those pipes have not started to breach. you might not pick up anything. Don Millette: yeah. but this is all part of the same program. you know. yeah. it like Unknown: they correlate pretty much. George. yeah. if there was any lead pipes. those samples would most likely come back. But again. it's. it's the risk of the lower action level. And then. like. Don was saying. to calculate the 90th percentile. there's like. a whole new protocol that would get you might maybe closer to getting close to that lower action level. And that's where the Kirsten Ryan: risk. I mean. the town does implement corrosion control. and the new water facility will. you know. as well. So that's that's that's probably why you haven't exceeded anything. and in combination with there may perhaps not be any lead in the system. But I guess to your question. Judy. with six. about 60% of everything classified and only having found 11 or 12 so far. you know logic would dictate that. hopefully you're not going to triple or quadruple or have 10 times more. hopefully you're only going to maybe double that amount. Unknown: and that y'all are curious to the public facing map on the town website that'll show you Kirsten Ryan: actually got it up right now. Okay? I can show you.
We can see it here. okay. so. for example. the orange color is. is a galvanized and
Unknown: then if you zoom in. Kirsten Ryan: you gotta zoom in to like the individual. So this is Sherman Ridge Road. The customer owned side is galvanized. Unknown: And again. this is based on a very conservative. rightfully conservative assumption. in which. as you can see here. even though the system side of that service line was plastic. we can't prove that that galvanized service was ever downstream of any lead. And again. galvanized pipe ever. it was never. never. sorry. never downstream of any lead. And so we can't ever galvanize pipe typically would act as a sponge for lead. And that's the conservative approach. Is just getting it out of your system.
Kirsten Ryan: It tends to. when you're zoomed out. it blocks like several parcels at once. usually. Unknown: yeah. so if you see multiple points here. you can continue to zoom in. and that'll show you. and also mean that there's. there's multiple services going to that single. single property. George Uveges: yeah. the one that you just had up. did that say it was a government building?
Kirsten Ryan: It's not going to say at the 139 Boston pulse road. I don't know what George Uveges: it says. System. own material. government. Oh. galvanized. I'm sorry. yeah. Unknown: is there a call? Color for unknown. Kirsten Ryan: yeah. unknown is green. Unknown is green. yeah. non lead is like. we know it's not lead. okay? And if you click on it. and if there is information. it'll say copper or what have
Unknown: you. no. And then Judy on the unknown ones. we do have an option where. obviously. if the customer can help to identify what their material is. they can they can directly access their own inspection form and submit that information to us. Or if it's incorrect. they can also do that. Okay. thank you.
George Uveges: Okay. when we test the lead. do we also test the AC? Are
Kirsten Ryan: you asking us? No. we're not. We're not looking for that. I mean asbestos cement pipe. You mean. Unknown: yeah. the aspects month is worse than live. Kirsten Ryan: I don't. yeah. I don't know if the system has any water mains made of asbestos. Meant. I've never heard of service line made of asbestos cement Tom Holder: was Don still on. was I? Yeah. Don Millette: yeah. So we. we have less than a mile of of AC pipe in town. and we do sample. we for asbestos. I believe that's coming up later this year in the fourth quarter of our sampling plan. So we will be pulling a sample this year for that.
George Uveges: Okay. anything else we need these folks to go through to scare us? Oh. one more thing. I think I know the answer. but to any of the deadlines for the LCR Compliance would that affect any of our borrowing for the water supply project?
Unknown: So I guess you elaborate. Kirsten Ryan: that's a Tom question. Yeah.
Tom Holder: yeah. So if I understand the correct question correctly. does the results of our lead inventory and all of this work impact our ability to get the SRF funding? Yeah. is that what you're asking? Mike. yeah. I mean. and you know. and I'll answer this briefly. but then I might just kick it right back to to Kirsten. is that as part of the as part of the SRF funding program. we have to meet. you know. particular criteria. ensure that we're operating our water system properly. and the work that we've done. performing this inventory and embarking on phase two of The program. we are meeting all of the expected requirements. and we're on par with with what the expectations are to meet the lead and copper rule revised and improvement. So what we're doing will ensure that we're able to to meet the SRF requirements. Unknown: Okay? Thank you. Yeah. George Uveges: The only other impact it could have that I could see is if it was so huge. it would impact our ability to service this and the loans. And I don't see that coming out of here. I
Yeah. anything else anybody has? Okay. we thank you very much. Tom Holder: Thank you all thank you. All right. thanks. Kirsten. talk soon. George Uveges: Bye. Thank you. And Tom. have you signed up for the this proposal. the 70. whatever it is. $8.000
Tom Holder: I'm preparing to Yes. I have it in my desk. Okay.
George Uveges: all right. Next topic is the agenda. the water Enterprise Fund budget. funding motions. Mike. it's your motion. Did you want to start? Michael Wegerbauer: I can start. But I. I had mentioned to Tom that I have kind of a hard stop at 730 or at 740 so I'm not sure we'll be able to finish this tonight. I can. at least I did simplify the motions so I can share those. Is on my screen. If I can figure out how to do that. let's see.
So these motions are simply to ensure that we have a voice and how. how we're managing the water enterprise fund right now that I feel has been taken out of our bailiwick a little bit. and this is these two motions are basically just to firmly bring us back into the mix when it comes to making financial decisions about water enterprise fund. So the first is a motion to request that we designate retained earnings as a funding source for the operating budget in an amount equal to the contingency expense dollar amount. This is how it was designed years ago. This how we set it up with Louise plus any anticipated xx excess projection for retained earnings above the target we set at the beginning of the year. What this does is the deal ours main concern has been with our stated revenue budget in our in our operating budget article. and the reason it's been overstated is because we intended to use the retained earnings as a funding source for the contingency expense. That's how it was designed. So we've been overstating our revenue budget. And when we met with them. they really didn't have much of a problem with our balance. our retained earnings balance. they didn't mention that at all they had they said it was going to be a quick meeting. because we said Tom may or may not join he was on vacation. They said. Well. I think this is going to be very quick. I had sent them an overview of our rate setting process. including the amount of our expense savings each year for the past. I think. four years. and they noted that our expense savings was in line with our lower revenue. So they didn't have a problem with our rates. the rates that we set this year. So in any case. if we bring this back in line. as you can see here. from the outset. when we started. when we added the contingency expense line for every year that we had the contingency. contingency expense listed in our budget. we match that as using retained earnings as a funding source. So it's just to put that back in place. plus any projection where we might be above retained earnings. dor will be very happy. because our budget for water revenue will be lower and will likely hit that most of the time. So that's that's number one. Number two is. in more recent years. we found that finance staff. or FinCom. I'm not sure who. but they were. instead of borrowing for large capital acquisitions. they were putting that on water revenue. not even retained earnings. They were asking us to increase our revenue for that one year to pay for a capital expense. I don't think they understood how that would affect our ability to set rates. or the requirement it would put on us to set rates much higher in that year to cover a long term capital expense. So this makes sure that they would have to come to us to get our approval to use something other than debt or borrowing as a funding source. So none of this restricts restricts the town from choosing a path it just firmly puts back in play our decision making process and our approval and as water commissioners. this is our responsibility. So these are the two motions. I've simplified them a bit as I mentioned. I can answer any questions folks have. And because this. this needs to be sorted out before the warrant is approved. we've got some time. It's not as though this has to be decided tonight. and that's why we put it off a couple times because it's not super urgent. We've got a lot on our plate. Okay? George Uveges: Thank you. Mike. I mean. I sent out some information. Mike says it's a my opinion. but I look at it more as information. I like to. Go through. Can you turn off your sharing please.
Michael Wegerbauer: before we go into it? Does anyone have any questions about about that. or any comments? I know George is against it. so we're going to hear the cons. and I'm not sure why. why he's against it. but.
Unknown: okay.
George Uveges: I tried to go through and provide information in terms of what reality is versus some of the things that have been thrown around. The first big surprise that I got was in terms of the free cash required. Now the information that we had today will change this fiscal 29 with the MWRA in the RSF. because the timing is going to be different. So I don't think this increase is going to happen. but I'll have to go back and check. But the real issue is here. because
Michael Wegerbauer: free cash for the water Enterprise Fund. George Uveges: yes. yeah. free cash for the water Enterprise Fund. The issue is that we the way we have set up our fees. or our we call it the rates for the fees for the water usage. We've got that increase in 27 built throughout the year. But the problem is that will be borrowed as part of the town's borrowings. and we will have to make that principal payment in the fall. being. normally November of 26 which is fiscal 27 even though we've only collected four months worth of so we're going to have a shortfall that we have to cover. Now we haven't had that before. because our interest expense was not as large as the cash balance or free cash balance that we had. So we're able to cover those interest payments. But as you'll see on that sheet. the amount that we're going to have to fund. we will not have the cash collected from this. and we may have a problem of a shortfall and not be able to service that debt if we do not increase. let alone decrease. that amount of free cash. So that's the first issue. George. Michael Wegerbauer: Can we just clarify some terms? We have a fund balance. and we have retained earnings. and you're talking about free cash. which is something I hear in the town side of the of the budget. but I have never. we've never discussed that. At least I haven't. George Uveges: It's just another term for the cash balance. free cash. Michael Wegerbauer: if you remember the fund the fund balance. or the retained George Uveges: earnings fund balance. not talking about retained earnings at all. this is cash on hand. cash we have to cover the expenditures that we have throughout the year. Michael Wegerbauer: So what does this have to do with our ability to make these decisions? These are strictly to ensure that we get to weigh in on these decisions. It's simply stating clearly that we get to do our job what we were voted to do. George Uveges: No. it's not Mike. It is Mike. You're setting it the with the part of the part of the expenses be paid by retained earnings. but we are going to have enough retained earnings anyways. We've got to significantly increase the rates to cover this timing difference or cash flow difference in terms of your debt service payments. It doesn't recognize the reality of life. Michael Wegerbauer: Our retained earnings have gone up every year. George. every single year it is I have. okay. all right. I I do not have time at this point. That's why I said I'll start it. But I don't think we're going to decide it tonight. And I really asked the other board members if. if you could please look into this. And we are diametrically opposed on this. George and I. and to me. it seems straightforward. This is just giving us the ability to make decisions that we are authorized and responsible for making. George Uveges: It sends the wrong message. Mike. this is your sheet on retained earnings. and you'll see it's basically flat. We had one year where we had a good year because of covid. and build more water than we have in any of the other years. and that gave us a push. but basically your retained earnings and your cash balance is basically flat over that time period. There's no build. there's the numbers. Michael Wegerbauer: There is a build. I can share my screen with the numbers. but George Uveges: this is a sheet from the town. This is. My sheet. This is the information from the town. Michael Wegerbauer: I don't know what you're looking at. I don't see anything on the screen. Nothing out there. George. there's been nothing up there the whole time you've been talking so George Uveges: okay. we haven't done it should be Hold on. I've got it up on mine. So let me see what we got here. I
Michael Wegerbauer: Matt has shared what our retained earnings balance has been year after year. and it's increased. And everyone has that sheet. and it's shown an increase. So I'm not sure where you're getting this new information. but George Uveges: well. it went out to everybody. It was in their package. Michael Wegerbauer: okay. but we went through this model with with Matt for many meetings in a row. and it showed an increase in retained earnings. steady increase. So.
Unknown: So Mike. you can't stay right. so maybe we should move this. Michael Wegerbauer: I think. So. yeah. yeah. thank you. Judy. so George Uveges: luckily. that's
Michael Wegerbauer: okay. all right. So. yeah. I'll send out to Tom that the updated motions that I just read through. and we can look at it next meeting
tonight. right I am George Uveges: then I I think you need to stay and we need to talk about this right now. Michael Wegerbauer: We're short players. Mike. come on. The game must go on. George Uveges: Well. we all but the broken ribs are keeping me on the reserve list. Michael Wegerbauer: Yeah. hopefully you'll be back soon. Hopefully. Unknown: All right. good luck. Mike. but not too much. Thanks. Michael Wegerbauer: Thanks. Take care. Bye.
George Uveges: Just so that
Tom Holder: are you unable to share it? George. percent.
George Uveges: I'm having real problems just even staying on Zoom. so hold on. Got too many things anyways. in the pack. in the in the package. in the that you have the packet. there is a sheet that talks about retained earnings. okay? And I don't. does everybody have their print out from the package? Yeah. I have it open. Okay? You can see the there's two lines. One is your fund balance. okay. and the other is your retained earnings. And I apologize for some reason I can't get there on here. Tom Holder: is this the sheet that has the bar graph on the right top? George Uveges: Yes. it is. Okay. yep.
Unknown: Yeah. page 34
George Uveges: I don't have a page. I don't have the page numbers on here. but it's it says water enterprise fund beginning fund balance. Tom Holder: yes. that's the one. It's got a bar graph. yep. blue and red bars. yes. George Uveges: And you can see that the fund balance at the end of 20 was 1.000.005 and is 1.000.004 at the end of 25 so basically flat. your retained earnings is a million. Oh. 44 to million. 151. so it's up about $100.000 for five years. So that's what I'm talking about. I mean. it's been fairly flat. and the benefit came in 21 where we had the large increase. because you can see it went from one four to one eight in cash. and from one zero to one three. and that was the covid years. So you know. when we talk about it being built. that you know that's not what's happening. So I'm just trying to get the actual facts in this.
Tom Holder: Come on. We are seeing a screen. It's the Zoom invite I know
George Uveges: I apologize. this is not
Unknown: what I'm trying to do. Any
George Uveges: idea I do I have to leave the meeting and come back.
Tom Holder: I mean. We can hear and see you loud and clear. I just don't know if. if that. if the Zoom connection is prohibiting you from sharing a screen. George Uveges: Yeah. I have no idea. But anyway. so that's. that's the one. Now. the second thing is. you know. we talk about the fact that. you know our expenses are always underneath. are always less than the actual what's been budgeted. But if you take a look at the sheet that has the financial summary. you'll see that what it doesn't include is the encumbrances and liabilities. and that wipes out most of that difference so you don't have that. I think I can share maybe this one. Tom Holder: Yeah. this is the one that says financial summary in the top left.
George Uveges: Do you see that? Nothing yet. I
Unknown: I don't know.
Michael Wegerbauer: I give up. all right?
Tom Holder: Something's happening here. George Uveges: Yeah. I'm going crazy. I'm going out for a drink. Hold on.
Tom Holder: Now we have the acrobat reader screen. and you got more than I do. So. yeah. I just figured I'd let you know what we're seeing. I
George Uveges: I don't know if you have it. but it's came out in the packet from Anita on Friday. Unknown: It's page 36
I'm looking at something that says financial summary. Yep. I have to look at it sideways. Yeah. Did we lose George? Oh. there he is.
Maybe we should make this one of the first items for the next meeting. because we have other topics tonight. right? And George. we can't hear you. George. you're on mute.
George Uveges: The problem. we can do that. but people better understand that. The problem is we're sending a very mixed message to the board. a Select Board and the Finance Committee when we talk about these kinds of things at the same time. we're asking them to underwrite a lot of our cost. So we'll. we'll put this away. but please read the information that I've given you. look at the inserts. because what you're being told is not necessary. The facts in terms of. he doesn't have all the information. and I've shared it with him. but he doesn't want to recognize it. like the encumbrances and liabilities. the fact that. you know. we historically have not made our net number because of revenue shortfall. And I think Tom You told me that three last three years. we've used some of the contingency. which means. if you adopted his promotion. you would be reducing retained earnings for that. So just keep in mind that I am not a little bit opposed. but violently opposed to this. because it sends the wrong message and the information is not correct. That's why I talk about the timing and the appropriate reserve levels. Tom Holder: Can you see? Unknown: Oh. there it is.
Tom Holder: I know we're wrapping up the discussion. I. I just figured I I gave this a whirl. and so I was able to to find. I'm not sure if there's. if there's anything you wanted to recap. George. yeah. you George Uveges: can. Thank you very much. You can see here. here. we've lost money. We made money there. But if you see at the bottom of that schedule. that's because the town gave us. Or $200.000 for consulting fees that we had budgeted. So if it hadn't been for that. we would have had a loss. and we just basically broke even in 25 Tom does a good job if he sees the revenue shortfall. which is this line right here. where. what are you looking at? See it says revenue. Budget Variance. You can see that most of the years we are significantly short and making our revenue target right here. right the only time we didn't is in 21 where we had the actual results from the covid year. we'll pump more water than we have in any of the other years. So. you know. we just need. I mean. we. first of all. we have the right. okay. and no disagreement with Mike on that. We have the right at any time when we set the rates to go through and use retained earnings and put that into warrant. that's our right. but sending messages to the town in the Select Board that we're going to dictate it. versus doing anything on a consulting basis with them. especially with what we have coming forward to me. is just crazy. to put it bluntly. So I will get off my box soapbox. and there you go. Tom Holder: there was the other one you were referencing. Yes. George Uveges: you can see. this is the sheet. and you can see. this is your cash level. and this is your fund balance that I'm talking about that we need to have for cover the payment of the debt service when it comes it comes through. because we're on the water tower. it's a 26 expense. our first payment. it's going to be borrowed in 26 and and we're going to talk. when we get to a different section. about what we might be able to do. But that debt service is going to be in November of 27
November of 26 in fiscal 27 and we've only collected four months of the 12 months worth of the rate increase. so we've got to have enough cash to pay that debt service.
Tom Holder: And was this. this line in yellow George. which is the certified retained earnings. which you get from the finance department. Is this what you were referring to when. when Mike was still on the screen. when he was George Uveges: talking about. we build it each year? Yes. and that's not a build each year. And this is not my schedule. This is from the town. Unknown: So this goes to FY 25 and you were talking about FY 27 is that correct? George Uveges: Well. I'm talking about in 27 we need the cash to do the debt service. because there's a sheet in there. if you can find it like that. has the it's called free cash required.
Tom Holder: Which which screen are you talking about? George Uveges: George. I'm sorry it says should. should be free cash required. Tom Holder: Let me just see what encumbrances I'm going to scroll. Let me know if you there's a handful of here. Just stop me if you see the one that you're referring to.
George Uveges: it wasn't in the package that went out. Oh. I'm sorry. okay. yeah. it was in the one that I was been working on and finally got the information I needed. Tom Holder: Oh. the municipal account one. George Uveges: well. it was with that. but it's called free cash required. It was in the three that went out. Tom Holder: Yeah. I can
George Uveges: Tom sent those out today.
Tom Holder: Yeah. with me one minute here. I
uh. free cash analysis. George Uveges: yes. uh. free cash required. yeah. but the Tom Holder: yeah analysis. yeah. yep. I got it all right. Bear with me here.
George Uveges: I'm sorry. folks. that I got. I think I had too many things open. There's a problem. How about that? Yep. can you make that a little larger at all? Let's see. And if not. don't. okay. that's better. So what. what it is. is that we have got debt service. and we're the debt. We don't borrow it. The town borrows it. and we make the payment. They use our cash to make those payments. And when I talking to Brian. got some schedules for him. What happens is that you pay the principal and one interest. Payment in November or in the fall. and you make your second interest payment in the spring. So you've gotta have enough cash on hand to cover that. And so those two debt services is the 1.000.002 53. that's the cash that we have to have on hand. I'm sorry. that is the cash we have available. Let me see go back.
Okay. start. We need 2.2 million. You see under total right here. Yeah. right. no. up on top the under fiscal 27 go up to Oh. yep. got it. yep. yep. okay. and go right here. total. right there. Yeah. that's the quorum required. Out of that. we're going to have collected 756.000 and this is all work in process. I've sent it to Matt to look at. so don't view this as gospel. but the the information is the same. So we're going to collect 756.000 that means we need 1.000.002 in cash to cover it. We don't want to use all retainer and all free cash that we have and go to zero. So we have to have some amount. So I use 15% and that you can just adjust that to whatever you want. Means that we need $2 million roughly. of free cash. and we have 1.000.004 at 630. 24 so that would give us. we need an increase of about $600.000 so that's what we have to look at in terms of using that cash amount. We can't we can't just consider it as available for losses. because it also has to be used as cash to fund our operations. that's the message.
So please look at the sheets that were sent out for this. both in the packet and in the other three sheets. I've asked Tom if he could send that other three sheets out as a supplemental package. and we're going to work on that so that everybody has it. But that's the thought process. The second part of that the MWRA. I have to rework. because he gave us different information in terms of the timing of when those payments would be due versus the normal town debt.
All right. so apologize to my problems with the shares Guys. Tom Holder: yeah. we got through it. Unknown: No worries.
all right?
George Uveges: Okay. status of the capital project. I'm not even going to try. Tom. could you put that sheet up that did go out in the package. Tom Holder: in the in the packet? Yep. All right. Bear with me. It's going to take me in A moment to find it in.
George Uveges: I. if you can. we can just everybody has it. should have it as part of their package in front of them. So. yeah. Tom Holder: if you want to start talking about. I'm trying to shift gears and get that back up on my screen. George Uveges: Okay. talks about three. three areas of. actually four areas of new debt coming through. This is not dual source. net. This is all the column. if you remember. in terms of the model. it was called new debt. Other than dual source. you've got water mains. water tank. MWRA is. And other and this is what's driving those There you go. This is what's driving that increase in terms of the interest in interest expense. So there's two things to take away from this. One is that we've got risk. obviously. in terms of the any cost increases coming through on this that would drive up that interest. Interest expense. The interest rate that Matt used was 4% in 26 and 5% in 27 and on. So we possibly have some upside in the interest expense for that. But most of the dollars. as you'll see. are coming in in 26 the life of most of these items. because this does not include the equipment purchases. which he also has in there. is 20 years. So it'd be 20 year financing and equipment normally is five years. So the debt service in 26 of this is 1.2 million. I'm sorry. 27 because it's being borrowed in 26 and so the one of the things that we can look at. if we have any flexibility with the town. is the timing of when this is going to be borrowed. and if it could be pushed into the next year. That provides us a little bit of time to build up enough cash to help fund that as it comes due. Because again. this rate increases. You remember. is billed into 27 not 26 and so depending on when these are going to be done or paid. in 27 we will not have other than four months collected when the first payment has to be made. So that's part of the requirement in terms of the additional cash.
And when the you listen to. I don't know if anybody listens to the FinCom discussions. You know one of the FinCom members wanted to know why. what we do with the money? Because the water is free. and that's not a truism. This is where a lot of it goes.
Questions. you understand the point I'm making here? Do I need to clarify anything? No. it's all very clear to me. Judy.
Unknown: I'm getting tired. and this is all swimming in my head now. So okay. Is that making sense to me? George Uveges: Yeah. look at it this way. you got a credit card bill that's due on the 15th. but you don't get paid until the 30th. That's what. that's what we're talking about.
Unknown: So it looks like with it's 8 million in 2026 is that correct?
Tom Holder: You're looking at this figure right Michael Wegerbauer: here. right? Yes. yeah. And
George Uveges: the biggest part of that is the water tank. right? So if any of that can be pushed out a little bit. so we don't have to borrow the money in 26 and have the first payment in 27 it provides us more time. Tom Holder: But I think that that borrowing will be happening as early as November. because that project will begin in the spring and will be completed in the fall of calendar year 26 so I think that if that borrow occurs in November. I think the debt service will hit in fiscal 27 George Uveges: they borrow before when the project starts. Is that the idea? Tom Holder: Yeah. because we have to have. we have to have funds to be able to execute a contract. Okay. yeah. So it's either a ban or a borrow. And I know that Brian is doing a borrow in November. I believe that these items are loaded into that George Uveges: Okay. so that's why the first payment is going to be in November of 27 when we would only have. I'm sorry. November of 2626 2727 No. 2626 Tom Holder: next November. Yeah. yeah. calendar year 26 right. George Uveges: And we would only have collected four months of that increase at that point. So we have to have cash on hand to cover the other eight months until it's repaid over the year.
And that goes back to the prior comment about why we need free cash or cat cash balance. Okay. can I clarify anything? Or Judy looks like she's saying. What in the world is going on? Unknown: Yeah. I'm I'm a goner. sorry. Let's move on. I don't want to hold everyone George Uveges: up. All right. Well. if. So you look at this. and if we need to check. just give me a call. You and I can talk individually. We just can't get a group. Unknown: right? Gotcha?
Tom Holder: Okay. come for pizza on Thursday.
Unknown: Pizza and spreadsheets. Okay. there we go.
George Uveges: Okay. and the next one. I don't know if you can put it up. This is the schedule on that went out today on the potential impact of the water rate increases. water rate analysis. v6
and this is. this is a started with what Judy had asked for and then expanded on it. And basically this is what Mike McCall had asked for. saying. Okay. tell me for various users. what the impact is on the various levels of the user and what? So what we've done is that Tom people and Sarah did a great job in coming up with a number of accounts. total water Billings and average bills at the various dollar levels. Okay. that's the first three columns. Unknown: This one I get you should it's yours. Okay. George Uveges: And then we go through we get the impact of the rate increase for other debt service. happy hollow. MWRA in total. Because again. the finance committee wanted to get the breakdown between happy hollow and the MWRA versus having it combined. So we broke those out. and footnote B and C gives you the percentage of those. then that gives you the total increase. and then you get your projected average water rate bill. So for example. as a residential you have 85 accounts that have an average of $4.000 as a billing. contrasted to 2700 Dave. an average water bill of 271 on the top line. So the increase is $200 for the lowest level person. and 3000 Oh. 25 for the highest billing. taking the highest billing to 7100 and the smallest building to an average of 500 and then we do the same thing with commercial same thing with municipal buildings. And one of the things that's interesting on this one is and Tom and I have talked. I am a little suspicious about the municipal rates that are being used. because I'm sorry I'm not being built because it seems low to me. You know. there's only an only $7.000 water billings for a year for municipal water usage. So Tom is going to investigate why that is irrigation is about 27.000 for 21 irrigation sources. and Tom says that's because most of them don't work. So that's why that's lower. And then we have schools. which are 34.000 Which to me also seems a little bit low for 12 meters. you know. an average of $3.000
you know. you've got a lot of people that are more than that. just for their residents. and you've got a number of school buildings and students. So that's again. a question. And then we have some common meter accounts where they're tied in for condos or your housing authority. which is an FHA. and broke that out in terms of those. So that gives you your picture in terms of your averages for the different users. And then if you go. you go to the next page. Mike. and so with the next page is I just took those amounts to show the impact of the increases from these based on each type. for municipal. municipal irrigation schools. and in total. Because. again. this is something that is going to have to be paid for by the town as they go through. And you can see it's about a $51.000 increase in terms of their water Billings. And that's assuming that these numbers are right. which they may not be. I don't know. I'm just. shall we say. my suspicious is up. Tom Holder: and we will. we'll follow up and make certain that these are accurate. George Uveges: yeah. and this is information we've never had before. so and that avoided Judy for asking for it and for the work that Sarah did. Tom Holder: Yeah. it was. it was quite an effort to get those figures together. George Uveges: Yeah. If trigger. that's 10.000 billings that she had to sort through. because 5000 customers and two buildings a piece. And by the way. the total of that comes pretty close to our revenue for water usage. Remember that this is based on billings. and that's based on collections. It was actually closer than I thought it would be. Questions. this help you. is this what you think they're looking for? Anybody still waiting. That's good stuff. Yeah. no. still here. It's good stuff. I'll buy Sarah a slice of pizza on Thursday.
Unknown: Um. well. I'm with you. George in that I'm I find the numbers awfully low for the schools. Um. does seem a little strange. George Uveges: yeah. especially because schools are billed at Tier rates. I'm told. whereas municipal are only billed at tier one rates. no matter how much water they use. which is something that we need to take a look at. Tom Holder: But now that we have the format and she's got the formulas locked in now we can take a closer look at at the actual raw data and make some changes if we find some some things that are not reported quite right here. George Uveges: So I do software should help with that too. right? Unknown: So I assume that the municipal buildings in the schools also have the new meters. They do.
George Uveges: It's a matter. I think. of capturing those. First of all. is everything metered? Is the first question. And then second is. are those meters covering everything in the building. or are we getting the proper reads on those or something else going on. We don't. I don't know. We don't know. Tom Holder: Yeah. I mean. I can tell you that everything is metered. It is very likely. almost guaranteed. that the meters are located in a place whereby that's they're capturing all the consumption. I think it's going to wind up being. you know. data manipulation. When we take a look at. you know. where the raw data is coming from. George Uveges: let's not call it data manipulation. because that has a bad tone to Tom Holder: it. Yeah. not being a data analysis. yeah. George Uveges: the accumulation of the data. yeah. yep. And the the other thing on this and the rate impacts with the want to bring in here the dor that discussion. I think Brian was we can take that down. Thank you. Yep. Brian was very surprised and pleased at how it went. Basically. they said that they would. they understood what we were trying to do. And that was the new meters. and moving to a quarterly instead of annual billing to give us volume an increase in terms of the Billings. because by going to quarterly. you'll get one extra billing of a quarter in this fiscal year. Okay. and so that should give us a boost. Now how much of that boost is. I don't know. and I couldn't model it. but it should be significant. So we'll have to take a look at that. And while you know. we had a good meeting. they said. We hear you. but we don't. We try. We we're going to make sure that our trust is warranted. We're going to follow up with you in terms of how this goes. And so I've talked to Tom. and I think what we should do is have at each of our meetings a little financial summary of where we are in terms of the Billings and cost against budget to see that where we're trending. Because I think he's. I think I was told that the our total billing so far for the two months is only like $10.000 higher. Unknown: When does the quarterly Bill start? Tom Holder: You're jumping the gun. That's the next agenda item.
Unknown: Yeah. what I would I could tell Mike Spellman really wanted to know. I've got Tom Holder: the answer. January 1. George Uveges: Okay. that's. that's the target date. Yes. yeah. So we will see. But let us say that Mike. that Tom and I have had this discussion several times. That Fair. fair. Okay. any other questions on that? No. Unknown: So you said that the schools are paying the tiered rates. but the municipal or buildings are at the flat tier one. George Uveges: I believe that is true. right Tom Tom Holder: that that's the way it's. Things are set up currently. yes. Unknown: and the irrigation is at tier one. So not. not to be. you know. sketchy here. or anything. but if. if we at least build them at cost. how would that impact our rate increases in terms of residential? Would it? How much would we be able to not increase on residential if we get the municipal to pay at least. I don't know. cost of water? Well. they do Tom Holder: that. That tier one. George Uveges: $6 it cost is about 11. right? So. but the problem is that their volume is not that high. So even if you double it. I mean. you're talking about what. 7033 you're talking about $30.000
Unknown: Yeah. I'm surprised by how low it was. but I guess that's one of the things we want. Tom Holder: Yeah. okay. George Uveges: they are on the hunt. but one of the things I want to be careful of is nobody decides that this is a witch hunt because we don't think we're getting what we want. So we're looking for how we can punish them. That's not politically smart. and that's not what we're trying to do. We're just trying. at this stage. trying to understand and then see what makes sense for all users. Unknown: Right? Agreed?
George Uveges: All right. anything else on that set helpful? We'll. we'll. we'll keep trying to refine that. and we'll come back and Tom will start to present us with the actual results versus budget every month going forward. Unknown: Thank you very much. Really appreciate all the hard work. Tom please let Sarah know. Tom Holder: I will pass on. yeah. and this. and she's got support from from some of the others in the office as well. I'll let them all know. but yeah. George Uveges: tell her she they all get a big star. Okay. am I? Tom Holder: Am I? Yeah. So we are. Middle of September. We're about 88% complete. and that's based upon the number of meter installs. You know we are. as you'll look back on the progress reports each month. we're starting to slow down. The meter locations that we're currently having installed are the the more difficult ones we're having to. you know. reschedule. trying to seek opportunities to get into people's homes. you know. So this is. this is expected. It's pretty typical of a meter replacement program. It was forecasted that we would be significantly complete by October. completed with the project in December. So I I still feel we're in a good place. but that gives you a sense of of where we are with that. Bear with me as I look at the agenda some of the things that I was going to talk about. So the water usage trend I've been talking over the last couple of months in comparing the routes that we're billing and we're doing a comparison on what we've seen as water consumption back when we had the old meters installed. comparative to when the new meters are installed. and the first month was route one. we looked like we had about a 7% increase. Route two. which was in August. it looked about flat comparing 24 to 25 route five. that just went out. is a combination of commercial and residential looks like it may have actually decreased a bit. We were able to to get and compile these figures today. so we'll. we'll be taking a look at. you know. is there any particular things that occurred this year rather than last year? Are there. you know. commercial vacancies? Are there accounts that there's a reason why they would be lower. So we'll. we'll be taking a look at that. but it gives you a sense. It's not consistent. It's not. you know. we're seeing the same percentage increase each particular month. George Uveges: And we also have to keep in mind it depends on when those meters were swapped in exchange for the billing period. So for example. if your billing period was January to June on six months and you got a new meter installed in May. well. most of it billing water usage was from the old water meter. So that has an impact too. plus the the fact that we have the uh. Sprinkling band. which we had last year too. You know. we may have more compliance this year. Tom Holder: Who knows? Yeah. yeah. And. you know. as I've been providing these monthly update reports. you'll see each route how many meters are being replaced. you know. so it's not. it's not consistent. You know. the the installers are going from one route to the next as they progress through the program. So it's that also has an impact. And so it's not an apples to apples comparison. George Uveges: Yeah. we won't get a real read until we have a full billing cycle with the new meters. yep. Tom Holder: But I do understand. you know. we're trying to get a sense of. you know. because we were predicting. at least expecting. you know. a 6% increase overall. So just trying to get some affirmation that we can actually achieve that. but remains to be seen. George Uveges: Yeah. and what we may have to do as we take a look coming towards the end of the year. seeing how much of that we're actually getting. and an estimate of what we think will pick up from the going to semi annual Billings and the cash flow that we're going to need for debt service for the other debt and happy hollow. Do we need to look at a rate increase in January. I hope not. but it may be the only choice that we have. because we can't have more cash going out than we have cash in the bank.
Tom Holder: Yep. something to consider.
George Uveges: We'll make this real popular. but
Unknown: no Christmas parties for you.
George Uveges: Sorry. they just throw stuff at me. Anyways. the column headings when it says hold for Tom. what does that mean? Tom Holder: And I was hoping Don was able to stick with us for the remainder of the meeting. Was I think he had a better sense of that. I really. and I've worked with mass installation on on these columns and the figures that are actually in some some of them are actually populated. There's some redundancy on these things. but there really is no hold for town that would imply that we're holding them up that there's some things that we need to do that that is that's not the case. So I wouldn't. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that column. Okay. getting. getting back to. you know. Judy's question about the quarterly billing. you know. as you correctly stated. our target is January one. so that would be the. you know. the third quarter of this fiscal year. We've been working with staff. We've been working with Matt Abraham. trying to get an understanding of. you know. the revenue that would be expected as a result of making the transition to quarterly billing. some of the things that we need to contemplate and we have to work through in the coming months is. you know. selecting the particular routes that are going to be in each monthly bill. You know. we're going to likely have two routes within each month. So say. month of January would be routes one and five. February would be routes two and six. and then. you know. in March would be three and four. and then you would start again in April. one and five. So making those determinations. we also. when we set new rates. Munis has a proration capability whereby. you know. in July the bills go out. you know. 1/6 of the bill is the new rates. five. six is the old and then in the August bills. it's. you know. two. six are the new rates. and four. six of the old rates. that kind of a thing. So we have to work through that proration. We also have to figure in what we're calling a rate factor. We have to be mindful that if somebody the way that the semiannual billing went out. if they were to have a bill period that actually extended past the three months or the six months. that would cause them to be fall into a higher tier. you know. that wouldn't be acceptable. so we have to be mindful of that and and be able to implement. you know. what we're calling a rate factor. Obviously. the tier thresholds are going to be reduced in half. going from semiannual to quarterly. as well as the base charge. you know. would be. would be half. just like you do for commercial now. right? Exactly. commercial or quarterly. So it's so those things. So those are the. some of the considerations. all the things that we have to work out. But. you know. we've got. we got a couple of months to to work through it. That's why we're thinking January is a a. Solid target date. we should be able to get ourselves prepared and organized to have a relatively seamless transition. George Uveges: Yeah. the only. only feasible way you may be able to do it is after you issue the six month bill. then go to quarterly. Otherwise it may be too complicated for the user? Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah. Well. that's and that's why. and we got to obviously make certain that these considerations that I just listed out are. you know. how do I say implemented in munis. so that all of this. you know. is done correctly. George Uveges: Yep. it's the last thing we want is to implement this and then have a lot of billing errors. Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah. And. you know. obviously we're not the first. you know. municipal community to do this. There's a lot of experience out there. and so we're. you know. gathering that lesson. those lessons learned. George Uveges: Yep. Okay. Questions? Anybody? No. okay. Sherman bridge. Tom Holder: yeah. wanted to provide an update. I know we had a couple of folks you know under public comment voicing their concerns. Just gonna. you know. tonight. George Uveges: just. I think they're still on the line. She Tom Holder: they. they were patient enough. They stuck through beautiful Yeah. So I just. you know. a couple of talking points. just to give a kind of a broad overview of where we are with this. You know. we received bridge inspection reports for all the town bridges from MassDOT. Recent Sherman's bridge reports have indicated that the condition of the bridge is severe and that the repairs should be made a priority by the town mass.is now performing more frequent inspections due to the deteriorating condition of Sherman's bridge. as Joe had described earlier in the in the meeting. You know. town staff make frequent repairs to the bridge deck that involves the replacement of these these timber deck boards. as he explained. you know. these are special order. They're. you know. atypically sized. They're very large timber pieces. But. you know. we have the ability to get them. One of the primary issues that we're having right now is the fastening lag bolts which hold the deck boards in place. could no longer be anchored to the stringers underneath. They just. there's nothing left to bite. They've those boards have been replaced so many times. There are also a number of other required repair components that involve the in kind replacement of the wooden sidewalk that's there in place. the wooden rails that are. you know. included with the bridge edges. as well as repaired to a number of piles that are indicated in the most recent inspection report. the towns plural. Sudbury and Wayland have engaged the Engineering Corporation tech as well as capital strategic solutions To perform the design and public outreach activities to to assist with that. There was an intermunicipal agreement that that's been signed executed between Wayland and Sudbury. and that formalizes the shared project responsibilities. The one favorable item that we learned was that Mass DOT has offered to purchase the repair materials and perform much of the repair work within their contracted services arrangements that they have. The value of this is in the order of a million dollars. without which. you know. would be born by the respective towns the report. the proposed repairs are mindful to preserve. you know. the wooden historic appearance of much of the bridge. but the proposal does include Mass DOT recommended installation of an asphalt service. you know. to the bridge deck. And I. I know that's what folks have the most concern about. And so you know this will having an asphalt service. one of the one or two of the primary supporting factors of that is. is. in essence. it doubles the repair lifetime. and it provides for some conservation of entities that that we've learned from meeting with both the Conservation agents from Sudbury and Wayland. We have arranged because we understand that this is an important topic. and there are folks that are impassioned about this bridge. So we have arranged for a public forum that's scheduled for Wednesday. October 1. It'll be located at the Sudbury Community Center. whereby town officials and project engineers will provide an overview of the project and be able to hear public comments. So we're pleased to be able to do this. It's really a formal. Uh. opportunity for folks to appear. be heard. get their concerns played out. and we'll be able to answer questions and and have a much better understanding both sides us and the residents on. on. on what needs to be done there at the bridge. So I would encourage folks to to join us on October 1.
George Uveges: Okay. the comments about speeding across the bridge is that it is there a possibility of putting a speed bump in the beginning and end on each each side of the end. each end of the bridge. so that it slows people down. Tom Holder: So I mean. that has been a traffic. you know. kind of mitigation thought that we are not supportive of. We get periodic requests to install speed bumps. speed humps throughout town when folks are concerned about speed. and there are a number of logistical problems to equipment. to response times. to drainage aspects that cause us to we are not supportive of speed humps. but there are. you know. traffic mitigation ideas that could be implemented that would at least address that concern. George Uveges: When I used to travel to Europe. it was interesting. Their speed bumps. they they were. they could put out in the spring and take out for winter. and so it wasn't a problem with plows and those kinds of things that way. Tom Holder: Yeah. seeing that. yeah. I mean. I have. and we've actually in some communities that I've worked at. We've. we've tried them. and they've become problematic. the condition of them. that kind of they become. you know. pretty poor the condition of them and trying to manage and maintain and replace them. It's. it's. it's not that. George Uveges: not that practical. All right. so so much for my ideas and what I know. no. okay. where the Tom Holder: listening and hearing ideas is what this is all about? George Uveges: Yep. Okay. so that meeting is October 1. right? Yeah. Tom Holder: So I would encourage you know obviously residents that we've got a web page established Sudbury is actually hosting it on waylands. DEP W project page. Those you click on it. it brings you to the project web page. We have door hangers that are being distributed over the course of the next coming days. just advertising this forum. So we're doing as much as we can to advertise this and encourage participation. George Uveges: Good. Anybody have questions? Okay. slowly but surely. Tom Holder: what I would ask is that. you know. in the coming week. I'll pull the this board membership. because if we do have a quorum attending. I'll need to post it is a public meeting. Okay? Good thought. George Uveges: Transfer station.
Tom Holder: I'm going to defer to the DPW superintendent. You're up.
Joe Doucette: All right. Be easy. George. It's past my bedtime. You and me both. George Uveges: I'm drinking water so I so
everybody should add in their package the transfer statement. P L from last year. And I've asked. Tom. do you have the comparisons that are listed in the agenda. in the RFQ? So that's our items for this one. Tom Holder: So go for it. So Joe Doucette: it's pretty simplistic. It's just it. It showed what calendar date from the periods from six. 123. to 910. 23 listing in 2023 sticker sold. Was 1401. 2024 was 1504. George Uveges: I'm so we don't. we don't have this anywhere. Do we? Joe Doucette: This is information Anita provided to me today. George Uveges: Alright. so well. you talking about like is we thought we would have had. oh. I thought Joe Doucette: maybe that's what she had put in there. But. George Uveges: no. I don't think it went out. Got it. So what are we? We're having sticker sales. Joe Doucette: So these are full sticker sales. This does not include second stickers. trailers. etc. or replacements. These were just full sticker. Sales towed. Sold to. let's say residents. 2023 was. and this is to the date till September 10. just to give you an idea. George Uveges: So July one to September 10. June Joe Doucette: listed at six one. So Tom Holder: yeah. that's where we start. We start selling stickers for the next fiscal year on on June 1. that is correct. Joe Doucette: Okay. okay. so 1401 in 2023 1504 in 2024 and then this year we're 1264. ouch. Unknown: So it went up in 2020 it
Joe Doucette: actually went up in and now we're hit some reality. I think.
George Uveges: And what's. what's the price of a full price sticker. 200 so that's
Unknown: Roughly. what is it Joe Doucette: two. what is it 264.
Unknown: $52.000. $2.000.40
Joe Doucette: I see 48.000 but George Uveges: well. it's 1504 to 1264. right. Joe Doucette: correct. You're George Uveges: probably right. So
Joe Doucette: it's 240 stickers. Four 800 Yeah. 48.408
George Uveges: Yeah. 48.000 Joe Doucette: Yeah. 48 48.000 sorry.
George Uveges: and that should make life interesting. because. remember. we don't have a subsidy from the town this year. because the 50.000 that we got from them is for the consulting project.
Joe Doucette: We do. we do have the reserve fund. yep.
And we do. you know. obviously. I'm assuming you've talked with an either or what the value that is currently? It's $303.000 George Uveges: as of June 30. Yep. that was on the sheets he sent us. Yeah. Now. if we take a look at the results from last year. Our total revenue was the 554. 76 but in there. and I'm not sure the what the 75.000 transfer from the general fund. So that would be like I did this wrong.
So roughly about 475.000 of revenue. Our expenses were 513
so that's about a 40.000 hour loss. roughly. I'm doing this on the seat of my pants here. So. so that Joe Doucette: well she had for carryover budget of last year. going into this year. 44.400 deposit. That was in the positive. but that was included. like you said. the 75.000 included. George Uveges: yeah. I'm trying. because that's not reoccurring revenue. So if you take the 550 less than 75 is 475. 476.
Joe Doucette: and we did carry the George Uveges: encumbrances over too. Yep. that's. that's. that's an improvement. We. I appreciate that. And our expenses were 513 with the encumbrances.
and so we lost roughly $38.000
Unknown: what are tipping fees? What does that mean?
Joe Doucette: Go ahead. George. George Uveges: that's the cost to have it picked up and taken to the incinerator. right? Tom Holder: Those are just the disposal costs for both both recycling and trash. Okay?
George Uveges: So the problem is that if we lose the. The 48 I'm sure we've got some increase in expenses. We're gonna take a nice chunk out of the 300.000 because we'll be looking at a probably 80 to $100.000 loss. Joe Doucette: I think we'd be better obviously. looking at this after the first quarter ends. yeah. when we could sit down with you. or. you know. bring you in and sit down with Anita. and we'll go over the quarter quarter reports. George Uveges: And I think we should. every quarter present those to the board. because with the request for the consulting and the pressure we're going to get from the finance committee. Think it's important this board be informed about where we are as we go through
Joe Doucette: and just an update on the RFQ that that has been given to the changes you asked for have been included. and it's with the assistant town manager who's handling the procurement for that. So that's in her hands currently. Is that gone out for two people? It has not gone out yet. She's still editing it and just. you know. boiler plating the information. And I think we were going to discuss or have a committee formed or a group form to discuss that. once we have it. yep.
George Uveges: and you should make sure that there's somebody from the FinCom on that.
Tom Holder: Yeah. Do we want to talk a little bit about the membership. you know? And it's not on our agenda to vote or anything like that. But I just. I'm interested to hear. you know. obviously we can. you know. have associated staff be a part of it? Perhaps a member of the Board of Public Works. you're suggesting a member of the FinCom. I recall Klaus was relatively active at one point on this topic. whether or not there's a desire to have him. you know. on the selection committee. review committee. and then also if there's a kind of a body that is actually going to kind of work work through this with staff entirely up to but there's some. some thoughts anyway. because. you know. once. once this goes out. we're going to have a. you know. a deadline date of. probably. I know. three weeks to a month. George Uveges: Yeah. no. but I think. I think I would be asking. I think Klaus is a good idea. And I think somebody from FinCom. if they could appoint somebody. You may get some resistance there. and then somebody between Mr. Spellman and Judy from our board. and you know. somebody from your staff and Joe. probably five people.
Unknown: So what surprises me? You know. just. just as a balancing thing. I was talking to someone who was concerned about water rates going up. and I said. just as a ballpark figure. your average homeowner. we're probably looking at $400
in terms of the water rate increases. And I said. here's one way you can save about four to $500 is to stop using your trash pickup and use transfer station instead. And if you include the $200 a year cost to use black earth. which is part of your transfer station services. you would be saving even more money. And the answer I got back was. oh. but that's so much more. Like you complain about the amount of money that you don't want to be paying for clean water. but you you couldn't be bothered to take your old trash out. So. I mean. people wanted their cake and eat it too. So it's a little discouraging to me. yep. George Uveges: But you know. hopefully what will come out of this is somehow where we can tie the two in together. And. you know. there'll be things that the trash service won't take and I can understand I would. I have no desire to have to haul my trash down there on the Saturday when I'm out playing golf instead. But if there are things your trash company won't take. you know. putting something in so it works. so you could take it to the transfer station might be much more acceptable. because it's not like calling your uh rubbish. but yeah. you know. I think that's part of the change in the community in terms of what we were 30 years ago and what we are today. Mm.
Tom. does that answer your question? Is that Sure. between those two. somebody will volunteer? Oh. Mike's leaning forward. okay. thank you. Mike. absolutely. Unknown: I'll be there. Tell me when and where. Tom Holder: All right. well. I will. I will solicit participation from the other groups that you were referring to. and I can reach out to Klaus and see if that's something he'd be interested in joining. George Uveges: I think he's still on the audit committee. isn't he. I believe. So. yeah. so he could be their representative. because they're the ones that started this whole question. right? Okay. okay. so anything else on transfer station? Tom Holder: I think that's what we had planned. George Uveges: Okay. any board member concerns?
Unknown: None here. No.
George Uveges: all right. minutes. any changes to minutes?
Unknown: No. no.
George Uveges: Okay. the only thing that I had is on page four. It had under scope of work. under transfer station. You're going to follow up with Abby Shuto regarding a question of solar panels. Tom Holder: So it's really difficult to follow up with Abby chute. she left the town. but look. you know. but in knowing that. I heard back from Mike Faia. who was the facilities director. and they had solicited a proposal from Ty and bond to assist them with the evaluation of installing solar at the at the landfill. And apparently. that effort did not get a lot of traction. I'm not really sure how to how to characterize this. but there really hasn't been any further activity relative to investigating solar at the landfill. George Uveges: Okay. because I was thinking that also ties to Judy's comments about the solar at New happy hollow. Because if you can't get it there. you know may not be enough space and availability to make it worth somebody worthwhile to install
Unknown: geothermal. just to keep that in mind. especially with the new water treatment plant to lower operating costs. George Uveges: where would you get geothermal? Well. you're you Unknown: have to dig George Uveges: right? Well. yeah. but there has to be thermal underneath somewhere.
Unknown: I'm not the expert on it. but my understanding is that it's. it's readily available. I don't know Mike. Do you know
Mike? Do you know anything about geothermal? Kirsten Ryan: I know it's pretty much everywhere. Yeah. Unknown: it's. it's not. it's not rare. George Uveges: Could we do that as a transfer station? Do you think?
Tom Holder: Well. I think it's. I think it's generally used for. actually. the heating and cooling of a building. not so much if you're thinking about using it to run the compress. you know. the compactors and stuff. It's. it's just for climate control. really. you know. So there isn't a whole lot of that at the transfer station. Unknown: Okay. yeah. it sounds great. George Uveges: Use it for generating electricity. okay. well. something new. Talk to Kleinfelder and see how much money we have left in the budget. Because I'm sure. I don't think somebody is going to come out and pay for it and sell you the proceeds over and above their cost recovery. Tom Holder: I think. you know the way it works. I think the equipment. because I've. you know. don't have direct experience. but I've heard of others that you know. the the equipment that you would have within the building is pricey. but then you have to do kind of the the long term cost analysis to see whether or not the reduction in your heating costs. how long of a payback period that would be to offset the increased cost of the equipment so it's it's something we could certainly look at. yeah. George Uveges: including the debt service cost. Yeah. Okay. anything else on that?
Unknown: No. I. Yeah.
George Uveges: okay. In terms of the minutes. I'm sorry. not minutes. but the meeting dates. Tom Holder: Do you want to I'm sorry to interrupt George Uveges: a vote. yeah. yep. Can I get a thank you for keeping me out of trouble. which is a full time job in itself. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes. please So Judy seconded. Mike Spellman. seconds. roll call. vote. Judy aye. Mike Spellman. Aye aye. Ed aye. George I moved 400. I zero. okay. dates of the meetings. One of the questions that I asked is if we're going to have to add any meetings for the warrant article and the decision on the financing of the dual I'm sorry the new new debt. other than the dual sourcing. Do we think we're going to need to have another meeting between November 18 and December 16. Or can we wait on that? I'm just concerned that the warrant and everything else that goes with it is going to tie us up somewhat.
Tom Holder: I would. I would think. if you know. if we wanted to discuss this again at the October 21 meeting. I think that that. I don't think we'll have a better sense on what the the agenda load looks like for. you know. for the remaining meetings. and if we have to slip something in between. or if it's a joint meeting between Select Board and FinCom. like we've been doing. we could. we could slip something in? George Uveges: Yeah. I'm. I'm thinking that. and that's fine. I'm thinking we're going to have some significant discussion about the financing. and need to be tied in there before the war goes to press. Tom Holder: And that there's. you know. one other group that you've. you know. may or may not be following is that there has been a capital project committee formed. and they have begun meeting. and it's their mission to learn and vet capital projects and schedule them on a five year capital schedule. Yep. you know. So that'll be a stop that I'll be making talking about what we have planned and. you know. So I think that there
was response and some of their decisions will impact what our capital plan looks like. George Uveges: Yep. okay. and obviously they you need to bring them into the loop on the lead pipe discussion. correct. Okay. all right. so we'll leave it as is topics not reasonably anticipated. 48 hours ahead. Anybody have anything? Tom Holder: Staff have none? Unknown: None here. Nope. George Uveges: okay. Can I have a motion to adjourn. please? So move so Judy. moves. Ed. seconds. roll call. Vote Judy. yay. Mike. yes. Ed. Mike. yes. And George. yes. adjourn. Vote 400. thank you. And again. I apologize for the problems I had with the sharing the screen. Take care and I appreciate it. George. good night. Unknown: All right. Good night all.
you on the spot. Anyway. We've got a long. long standing employee. graduate of Wayland High School. retiring after decades of service. so we're having a send off for him Thursday at noon at the DEP W so anybody that is in the area and is free during that time frame. please feel free to join us at the Public Works facility. George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Alright. open it up for public comment. You watching the hands. Joe Doucette: I just wanted to let you know that he was employed January 2004 was any started? So I just looked that up. good. George Uveges: So 24 years. very nice. Tom Holder: Okay. so I see Jeff Stein. so I'm going to allow him to speak. Jeff. are you there? Unknown: I am. Tom Holder: Can you hear me loud and clear? Michael Wegerbauer: Oh. good. Well. thank you. Then. I'm Jeff Stein. I live at 48 Sherman's Bridge Road in Wayland. I'm an architect past dean of the Boston architectural college. I can see Sherman's bridge from my house. and of course. I can hear it that. by the way. is a feature. not a problem. The sound of the bridge is part of the charm of this neighborhood and part of what makes this bridge a place. I just want to point out that working on a project like this is more complex than it might have been even a generation ago. especially for this project. your constituency is not just car commuters. landscapers with their extra wide trailers. school busses. It's bicyclists. motorcycles. pedestrians. people who are fishing. boaters. his. Historians. nature. photographers. tax paying neighbors. people have held weddings on this wooden bridge. We're all your clients. and you should know we need more than a fast. smooth driving lane with metal guard rails. Speed is already a problem on Sherman's Bridge Road. where there are regular car crashes on the road. but interestingly. not on the bumpy wooden bridge itself. The wooden bridge gives identity to a neighborhood that has grown up around it to this region of Wayland and Sudbury. and we'd like to preserve that identity and its place in our town's history. on a scenic road where commuters are already traveling way too fast. Asphalt on Gulam might not be the answer. I'm just saying.
George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Jeff. There is going to be a forum on Sherman bridge coming up. so I would encourage you to come to that forum. Michael Wegerbauer: Great. Thank you.
George Uveges: We have anybody else Tom Tom Holder: I see several people in attendance. but I don't see any more hands.
George Uveges: You're in attendance and would like to speak. please raise your hand. otherwise we will move on.
Tom Holder: Okay. here we go. I have Rebecca. Rebecca. you are on Unknown: Okay. Hi. I'm Rebecca Devine. I'm at 17 Hereford Road in Wayland. Just as a side note. I'm not related to Greg. as far as I know. but my family has been at this property since 1942 and so we have a long history at the bridge. I will say that. Well. I appreciate the wood bridge. I don't. unlike many of my neighbors. appreciate the noise of it. I have found in my many years living here. and my grandmother having lived here my entire life. that the bridge has not been well maintained as far as I'm concerned. in between seasons and Joe. maybe you could answer the question. Is it really that it alternates from one town to the other on maintenance every year. Or do you guys split the maintenance? Because it seems like every June the bridge is not maintained until it becomes the next fiscal fiscal year. I will agree with Jeff that there is too much speed. and we don't need it to be faster. but the maintenance has been atrocious since the built bridge was rebuilt in 1991 as far as I can tell.
Michael Wegerbauer: I think Joe. you can respond if You have an answer to the question about who is alternating? Joe Doucette: I want to say it was three or four years ago. or maybe longer than that. we had decided with Sudbury to the bridge. Instead of alternating back and forth. we've literally split the bridge in half. They take care of one half. We take care of the other half. We do maintain it approximately two times a year. it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain it. because the stringers have essentially turned into Swiss cheese. So as much as we attempt to maintain it and keep the boards in place. the Yeah. it's a kind of a losing battle. Unknown: And Joe one follow up on that. is it true that those boards come from one supplier only. and only one person can get them for you. Is that part of my understanding as to why it's been such an issue on maintenance? Joe Doucette: No. we've struggled to find suppliers because we do have to have them made in certain lengths. et cetera. We in the past few years have gone through a couple different vendors. But no. it's. it's not. it's not difficult to get a supplier. but it's not easy as well. It's. we've gone through a few and we currently do have a supplier form. Unknown: Okay. thanks. I think those are just some of the issues that may be helpful when you guys are doing your full meeting. Thank you. Joe. Thank you. Tom Holder: Tom anybody else I am looking and as of now. I do not see any other hands. George Uveges: All right. going once. going twice. nothing. Tom Holder: nothing. no. changes. George Uveges: Okay. let's close public comment and move into the status of the long term water supply project.
Tom Holder: It's all yours. Tom Sure. sure. to start off the conversation. we just see if I. I do see Greg Devine. no relation to Rebecca. Sure. so Greg has joined us tonight. Greg is employed by the mass DEP. and he works in the office that oversees the State Revolving Fund. So in knowing that there has been some periodic questions asked relative to the SRF program and how it relates to our financing of the MWRA project. I invited Greg to join us. He can provide you know a brief overview of the SRF funding program and entertain questions that board members may have. So with that. I would recognize Greg.
Unknown: Thank you. Tom appreciate you all inviting me here this evening. Happy to share a little bit about the program. about myself. I have been serving the SRF program in this capacity for about six years now. So I am the SRF Program Section Chief. responsible for projects in both the Northeast region in which the town of Wayland resides. as well as the western region. So in that capacity. we have overseen projects of all types. most recently. and obviously. we've dealt with quite a few projects that involve PFAS. or rather. the elimination. or at least the reduction thereof to the public's drinking water supply. So what I wanted to touch upon here are a couple of what I would say are benefits of utilizing the program and how it can be helpful to town and a community in terms of how it impacts rates and being able to move forward with the capital projects. but also speak to some of the upcoming milestones and just kind of a higher level timeline now that Tom and his team have you know. launched into this endeavor in terms of submitting to our program for consideration a two part capital project. So the SRF program blends money received from the federal government a corresponding state match as well as recycled funds in order to offer support for capital projects. And so with that. we are able to. on an annual basis. offer terms and conditions from a lending borrowing perspective that differ from a more traditional bond ban sort of scenario. and certainly quite different than what a commercial lending institution would offer. Our starting baseline interest rate is 2% so especially in this day and age. if you're tracking any of the mortgage rates. what have you. 2% significantly less. We have recognized the fact that the challenges of eliminating PFAS from raw water sources comes with a pretty high price tag. So what we've tried to do to better support communities in the effort to eliminate PFAS is to offer a reduction from the 2% down to a 0% borrowing capacity. So effectively. for every dollar borrowed toward your project. you pay back that $1 now I would be remiss to say that there aren't any fees or charges associated with this. There is. which is typical of most lending vehicles. and origination fee as well as an administrative fee. So these fees add up to about $5 per 1000 borrowed. and so your effective interest or any outside charges other than the principal on the loan would just be that administrative slash origination fee. So pretty. pretty small dollars. all things considered. the term of our loans typically start at 20 years. and so we ask for a corresponding useful life certificate from your design engineer of record to support and corroborate that the investment by yourself as the town as well as us. that the project in the associated infrastructure will be viable for at least 20 years. We can. at certain times. look beyond the 20 year term and go out as far as 30 years. With that 30 year we do make some market rate adjustments to cover the additional 10 years of repayment. And so of late. that has been in the range of about point four to point six add on to the baseline loan. So in this case. let's just effectively call the overall borrowing to be a somewhere about 75 basis points. or about three. Three quarters of a percentage point. just as a conservative target for borrowing. If we were to go beyond the 20 years. up to something in the 30 year neighborhood. the corresponding useful life certificate would have to correspond with that. because we'd want to make sure that the assets and the effort itself is covered. in fact. viable for that entire period of time during which there is a debt service or in a different way of repayment George Uveges: mode happening. Greg. one question. a little bit of confused in terms of the rates. One point you said 1.4 to 1.6 and then you said a point seven. five. Yeah. Unknown: George. let me clarify. 0.4 to 0.6 would be the ad on to the term note. if we went from 20 years to 30 years. thank you for clarifying. George Uveges: And is that for the full 30 years. or it's just that. just for the last 10 it Unknown: would be for the full 30 and so the amortization on that. And you know. we provide draft schedules would just be adjusted out across the course of two payments per year. January and July.
George Uveges: And is that principal and interest. or principal? And then to split the interest. Unknown: in the case of 0% it would almost effectively be mostly principal each time. So we could offer two courses of repayment. either a level debt service. meaning equal payments twice a year for the life of the loan. or a level principal where the interest will drop down in time. beginning with the highest interest payment on your first payment and then trickling down to zero. similar to what you see on a normal house or car loan. George Uveges: Okay. Fay. and we're just. we're looking at the cash flow impact of some of this. That's why I asked the Unknown: question. Sure. absolutely. And what we can do. if it is at all helpful to your conversation. is I can work with our financial counterparts at the Massachusetts clean water trust our financial arm. and have them put together a few tables. if that would be helpful for a visual and just to kind of review some of those numbers. rather than you all trying to project those out in your preferred financial software. George Uveges: Good. We appreciate that. okay. but that's very helpful. Yeah. Unknown: So. you know. really. the you know. the strength of the program is the fact that you know we can offer and lend to you at a point where. for the debt service incurred. there's not going to be a further surcharge onto the impact of the rates. right? And that's what we're really trying to target here. is recognizing that capital projects. just. you know. they scale to an extent. but not so much so that there's not an impact to your customers. And so we try to be somewhat sensitive to that in our approach. So that's yes. Judy. thank you. Is the rate locked in. it is okay. And what would determine. if it's a 20 year or 30 year. that would ultimately be the preference of you all as the owner. So you would at the time of permanent financing meeting. the project has been complete and that we're executing on a permanent loan. it would be structured based upon your input and decision at that George Uveges: time. Okay. in other words. what we apply for. right. right? Unknown: So the advantage of our programs. we have interim financing. So effectively. during the course of the construction project itself. you can borrow the money and pay all your bills. and at the time of project completion was when we would set in and lock in those terms for you. So effectively. you get the money upfront. and then we enter into debt service Once the project has completed. or in the course of a multi year project. we would try to target somewhere around the 50 or so percent mark to say we're going to lock you in an effective two years from now. you'll have to begin your repayment method so you have beneficial use of the very project before you start to incur those costs and recognize that debt service coming onto your books. George Uveges: But you're still paying the fee at that period of time. you're just not having to make a payment. Unknown: No. no. no. the fee. the fees and everything are deferred until the time of the project's completion in your first payment. right? George Uveges: But I understand that's the payment. But the question is. for that. let's say a project is two years. As we draw that money for the two years. there will be an interest that will be added on to the principal during that construction period. That's not free money. Unknown: It is free money up front. Yeah. So the. George Uveges: No. I'm talking about the payment. I understand we're not going to have to make a interest payment that the question is. is that there is no interest in my understanding correct charge during that two year period? That's correct. Unknown: That's correct. Yep. So the the interest is based. Upon the amount borrowed independent of the interim state. So whether you're utilizing a 14 month construction period or a 30 month construction period. that would be irrelevant. We are simply going to target the principal value borrowed independent of time. George Uveges: Okay. so the interest accrual doesn't start till the actual loan on after construction is occurred. That's correct. Yes. And what months did you say there were payments due Unknown: January and July? So we try to charge at the beginning of a fiscal year and then halfway through. so that you can try to forecast that as you go into your fiscal year projections and budget analysis. And as we approach the time of permanent financing. we would make sure that you're fully aware. We'd share with you those amortization schedules so that you're fully informed of what that first you know series of payments would be. Michael Wegerbauer: Okay? Good. Thank you very much. So sure thing only here. Greg and thank you for joining. We just want to confirm we would not be eligible for SRF if we were to construct in the flood zone. which is where the current facility stands. That's been our understanding. and we've made decisions based on that. If you have that answer Andy confirm that it'd be nice. but if not. that's okay. Unknown: There are avenues to say that work within a flood zone can be considered. provided that there are provisions to protect the critical features and functions therein and that were not negatively impacting said flood plain. right? So there. there are a couple of qualifiers to that understanding. and sometimes the effort to do that might not offset the value add of going through the program. Michael Wegerbauer: Yeah. it's not something we want to do just just trying to cross our t's and dot our eyes Unknown: understood. Great. awesome. So. if I may. I'm just going to touch upon timeline here a little bit. So we received. during our annual solicitation period this past summer. what we call a project evaluation form or PDF. And so in essence. that's an expression of interest for upcoming capital work that will be considered by the SRF program. So currently. we are in the process of reviewing and evaluating all of these expressions of interest that we have received across the state. and through that evaluation. we'll come up with a ranking based upon tiered scoring as to what we can and will fund in the upcoming calendar year. So that final deliverable to the public is called an intended use plan. So annually. our intended use plan catalogs and lists out all the projects that will be included and supported by SRF funding moving forward. So based upon historical timelines. we are targeting the issuance of a draft IUP list somewhere circa the end of the calendar year. likely maybe January of 2026 for the 2026 year. Okay. and following the presumption that the projects that were submitted make the list. we would then have a 18 month timeline from which the draft plan was published to when we would expect a the project to be underway. And so the end target date based upon that math. would be a contract award to a construction entity for the work. for the proposed work to occur no later than June. 30 of 2027. in the interim. we would look for A financial commitment from the town no later than June 30 of 2026. so effectively. what we're trying to do here is align our intended use plan to come out circa the time that you would advance warrant articles for consideration by your finance committees. and to make some sort of land agenda for your annual town meeting. by which you know that vote would then support the intended project. which is one of the commitments that we look to from a community in order to move forward on the the SRF program. The other milestone is typically fall of each calendar year. We get through June. we had a successful vote during the annual town meeting. Then the SRF loan application comes due in early October of that calendar year. and we start to get into the weeds of what we're looking for from an administrative and also a financial capacity in terms of do we. Have full rights to the parcel. or parcels or the project corridor. Have we done all of our external agency reviews and endangered species. natural heritage. any anything from mass historical. any impacts. to railroad corridors. MBTA. mass highway. DCR. etc. etc. So there's a pretty robust process there. and what that says that that's us up for is a successful procurement period at some time following the loan application. so that you can and your project team enter into the procurement process in accordance with mass general law. without any exceptions or flaws to that approach. Right? So in essence. our setup really protects you as the owner. And that's really what a lot of our checklists. what a lot of our deliverables are intended to do. is to protect you as owners. such that all of the intermediary steps are done in accordance with either the prevailing laws of Massachusetts and or the requirements of the SRF program. because. as you recall. we do collect monies. both federally and as a state match. and so with with that comes some requirements and regulations. So we try to have the T's and I's dotted in a sequential fashion. such that you're not overloaded with a large package. with the excitement of receiving a bid that's viable and wanting to move forward. So we kind of. you know. set things up across those 18 months from the draft IEP circa January of the year and the following June. George Uveges: Greg. one question going back to what you're talking about. the town commitment. we're going through a discussion now about whether it's going to be in water rates or real estate taxes or some combination. Does that matter to you at all in terms
Unknown: of the loan? Technically. no. We look. we look for the community to have a viable option for borrowing money against the SRF program. We do look that the water department is an enterprise fund where theoretically. the ability to pay for this comes via rates. However. there can be some conversation with the Clean Water trust as to how those payments are made. recognizing that oftentimes raising rates to match new debt service is not always the most viable solution. at least in the in the short term. right. having not raised rates preemptively. oftentimes. a reactionary rate increase might leave you with a slight gap In terms of your ability to make those payments.
Question. so I assume these are state funds and are not impacted by any matching funds from the federal government. Yes. No. not exactly. We do. We do rely on grants that come to us from the EPA. and then typically. there is a state match involved with the funding. So if for rough numbers. if we were to see. you know. a 20 or so. maybe 24% match to all federal funds at the state level that said. we do receive PFAS specific grant money on an annual basis. and so right now. we have in our possession grant monies that we can extend forward for the next calendar year. so we won't necessarily be immediately cut off should federal funding disappear. There's still other ways that we draw money in. both in terms of the state match. but also recycling funds coming in from older projects. right? We lend money out. it comes back. And so those three different streams. as we commingle them. do allow us to create a buffer to some of the ups and downs of funding streams as we go along. that could mean that in the future. we make some adjustments in terms of multi year projects. Maybe the commitment isn't in full in one fell swoop. So we offer the money to you in different tranches. But you know. as as it stands right now. our intent is to continue to fund projects to the maximum extent possible. And so it could be that we adjust it to say. Okay. if you have a $30 million project. we might only offer you $10 million in year number one. but then honor. you know. additional funding in a second year. as opposed to committing the full value of the projected cost upfront 30 million and deny several other projects the opportunity to proceed. And we look at the cash flow analysis and the intended burn rate so that you know there isn't a gap in the funding. but it's unlikely that in the first six to nine months there would be a $30 million draw. Work on a lot of our local. you know. PFAS driven projects. So it doesn't answer your question in full. but I don't have a crystal ball as to say. you know. how will Washington respond to different influences moving forward? But we're trying to guard against it. There's been a bit of austerity on our side in the last 18 months in anticipation of it. but as long as the money is there through continuing resolutions. we're going to continue getting it out on the street. George Uveges: just to build on Judy's comic. And I understand there. you know. who has a crystal ball comment. but is there any indication at this point from Washington that there's going to be a change in the funding under this program. Unknown: I think it depends on who you ask from Washington. That's a surprise. And again. not George. not to be cheeky. but I think that right now. we just have to understand that. you know. independent of politics. there are real needs here by everyone you know. whether it's to take a shower. have a cup of tea. Enjoy a cup of coffee. You know. there's a real value here to supporting the projects that we endeavor to complete. So I think that. independent of some of the ripples and waves that we're experiencing. will find a way of. you know. supporting the projects that we commit to. and we're only going to commit to those projects that we feel that we can fund. So let's say. for example. in the next four months. we get some big updates that will impact how we draft our intended use plan. So that. you know. we're making a commitment to maybe a few fewer projects. but those projects will be supported. Or we say. All right. folks. we're going to do. you know. some sort of crazy scenario where we're going to fund everything 50% year one and try to transfer the balance over. So again. this is me just kind of spit balling different possibilities that we could do in order to maintain that commitment. But we were not just going to go and say. oh. yeah. every everybody gets a treatment plant and then not be able to honor that commitment in the second year. should the funding streams kind of dry up? George Uveges: I understand. Thank you. Out of the number of projects that you have requests for funding. what's your normal percentage that you will say yes to? Unknown: Well. that number is decreasing for this very fact that we have inserted measures of austerity so the drinking water program is over prescribed on an annual basis. and not so much driven by the lack of money out of Washington. but more the. you know. very real need of a lot of PFAS and the remediation or elimination thereof. So I'd say that on the drinking water side of the of the faucet. We're probably trending around a 1/3 to 40% funding out of the total ask. But with that in mind. we're not necessarily receiving 100% of PFAS projects. booster pump stations. water storage tanks. water main replacement. so the full gamut of the distribution system. supply and treatment. So. you know. we try to prioritize and triage the projects that you know offer them the most value in terms of need basis. Are there great projects out there every year? You bet. do we? Do we cringe that we can't fund them all. sure. but we have to draw the last somewhere. okay? George Uveges: And if you. if you are not. not in that 1/3 or 40% is that a no forever. or is that you go back into the pool next year? Unknown: It's. it's a no for the for the calendar year and consideration. George Uveges: okay? So you can get. you might get it to next year. Unknown: you'd have to reapply. You simply copy and paste from the prior year and then kind of refresh that expression of interest. But yes. it would be considered without any sort of additional bias or any sort of prejudice toward it. It would be an objective review moving George Uveges: forward. Does it help if it's your second year. or is it irrelevant? Unknown: That's irrelevant. Okay. thank you.
Tom Holder: One question that's been posed Greg is. is there a principle forgiveness component to this? Unknown: There is principal forgiveness offered through the program the the town of Wayland. however. based upon our kind of economic and adjusted income models. doesn't necessarily qualify for any additional principal forgiveness. Now. that said. I don't want to you know. just throw out there a stinging rebuke in the arena of PFAS. we reduce the amount of principal forgiveness across the board. Why? Because you're already borrowing at 0% so there's already an economic advantage to having to deal with a more expensive topic. But in the case of Wayland. no. there wouldn't be any additional principal forgiveness offered. So.
George Uveges: Okay. thank you. Craig. is you Unknown: have more or do we? No. I want to be mindful of the time and again. I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation with you all and hopefully answer a few questions and not leave more cause for concern or uncertainty as we navigate the process George Uveges: uncertainty and this kind of thing. I can't imagine anybody have questions. Judy. Mike. Mike. anything else? Michael Wegerbauer: Ed. I'm sorry. Just one nothing here. Thanks for your time. Gregory. if you were in a tight situation. and it sounds like PFAS might be somewhat prioritized over some other projects. but didn't have the full funding available. Would it? Would it be not you? You? Would you possibly come back to us with an option to fund a portion. because we have two major activities ongoing. coming up with the connection to the MWRA. as well as the plant construction? Unknown: Yeah. I mean that that's certainly in the cards. Mike. I think that whether it was one large project or a series of contracts. we would certainly try to find a way. And if there are other funding vehicles in play. we can certainly. you know. kind of CO fund a project. whether it's grant monies for design permitting or another sort of grant opportunity during the construction phase. We can. we can blend those streams together. George Uveges: Great are funded over the two years. as you talked about. right? Unknown: Yeah. so. you know. we look at the SRF program as kind of a. you know. financial safety net that you can insert different funding mechanisms throughout. And the advantages of our program are that. you know. we can be offer that interim financing package. so you can kind of. you know. triage through if certain funds need to be spent early or grant monies. or sun setting. you know. get that money inserted into the project early on. and then rely on us and. you know. the latter stages of a of a project. George Uveges: So Greg. I can guarantee you. we won't be shy about getting everything that qualifies under the program. Unknown: Nor should you be. You You have to respond back to your customer base. and you're right payer. so I would assume nothing less. Okay. George Uveges: Spellman. anything all good? Okay? Judy Ed. it's not all right. Tom. do you have anything that you want to add? Tom Holder: No. I do not. I very much appreciate Greg attending with us tonight. provided a lot of necessary information. and we'll we'll be talking soon. Greg. George Uveges: sure thing. We appreciate it. and we will follow up as other things come up. I can guarantee you. please do. Unknown: I'm here for just Michael Wegerbauer: that. Thank you. Thank you. Greg. Thank you. Thanks. Greg. George Uveges: Okay. we have three other topics under this listing. Tom Holder: Yep. I can take the next one. design impacts to project cost. As you know. we've just reached the 30% design milestone a month or two ago. We're now proceeding towards a 60% design threshold milestone. And to date. we are not aware of any issues that are before us that would cause the cost of the project to increase. There are. you know. a number of things that the MWRA is asking of us relative to the alignment of the transmission main. how we actually secure that. you know. the close proximity to the Haltman aqueduct. you know. has them paying very close attention to that. But even with those requests. we are still confident that we're maintaining the current cost projections.
George Uveges: Okay. questions by anybody? Okay. discussion of town funding options. Do you want to start Tom or you want me to start? Tom Holder: I think that that is a topic in other folks court George Uveges: nice punch. Okay. I understand I haven't been able to see the Select Board WayCAM from yesterday because it's not up yet. but Tom tells me they spent about an hour talking about this. The impact. or impression I get from both the Finance Committee and listening to people on the Select Board. Is there some discussion about. do you fund it all with real estate taxes. or do you split it between the two. between happy hollow and the MWRA? And what as we get down later into some of the slides that will be presented. you'll see the impact of that split. We've split our analysis into the three pieces being the new non MWRA. happy hollow. happy hollow and MWRA increases. I'm not sure that we will get a quick answer. They have said that they believe they have until December with the drafting of the warrant to make that decision. And if they do the one loan option. there's like two ways. one exempt borrowing in in total. and one where the Select Board can decide on a periodic. ie. annual or more basis. how much to cover in real estate taxes. that that decision is not there yet. so we're going to have to keep providing them information and having meetings until we Get to probably December. when an actual decision will be made. But at this point. I don't think that the Select Board has made any decision. They're still in a trying to gather information stage. They did vote down the peer review at two meetings ago. so that that prevents that project from slowing down what we're going through. And I think that's basically the total anybody have any questions I can try and answer. Tom can try and answer.
Okay. so the message is. stay tuned. We'll get back to you on that from the Select Board. Okay. review of happy hollow repairs. Tom Holder: Tom. yep. I'm going to hand that off to Don he's directly managing that effort. Don Millette: Hello. everybody. I'll keep it short so the we completed the second round of repairs on Friday afternoon. The glue set up over the weekend. my staff and I pressure tested and drew a bacteria sample yesterday. a few minutes ago. the test results came back negative for E coli. so we will be putting the system back into operation first thing tomorrow morning. George Uveges: good. and the cost is going to be within what we had from the in the excess capital funds from prior projects. So there's no hit. as I understand it. to the expenses for the year. correct? Okay. with that coming online. Do you have any idea when we're going to be able to cancel the watering band?
Don Millette: Good question. The state just ramped up our drought alert. so we are now in a. I believe it's a level two drought currently. right now. So I did not get a chance to look at the flow of the Sudbury river there before the meeting started. but I can follow up after this meeting with an answer on that. George Uveges: All right. would you let the board know on that? Yes. obviously. one of the questions is how much water we can be pumping and billing. I know that with it coming online. you'll be able to stop the emergency correct news. and Tom has assured us that that's not going to it's going to it's going to be expensive. but not put a large dent in the contingency. Tom. do you remember what you said the dollar amount that you think it's going to be? Tom Holder: We calculated back of the napkin about $2.300 a day. It's been operating for about three weeks. So you know. in the order of. yeah. 5050. George Uveges: grand. okay. okay. yeah. if you can let us know that. because obviously I'd like to just from the business side. the ability to start to pump some of that water would help in terms of meeting what we signed up for in terms of revenue. Yes. Fay. yes. So that being able to pump. Don Millette: yeah. yeah. So we'll be shutting that the MWRA connection off tomorrow. once happy is up and running. and then I have to reach out to the state to ask them to lift the emergency declaration. So. you know. there's a little bit of time there. but I will definitely follow up ASAP with an answer for you. George Uveges: Thank you very much. Anybody have questions Michael Wegerbauer: so don this was on for about three weeks. We were on we're using the emergency connection for about. Three weeks is that correct? Don Millette: Yes. The the first repair took place on September 5. so. yeah. yeah. about about three weeks. Cool. Michael Wegerbauer: We're about 80 cubic feet per second. Don Millette: Oh. cool. okay.
Michael Wegerbauer: I know that's very low. Don Millette: I believe our threshold is 74 I think is our trigger. so I just need to double check on that. But I believe that's the number. okay.
George Uveges: okay. Anything else for that section? All right. Tom the lead service pipe replacement program. Tom Holder: Just to provide a little bit of background. I'm sure the board members of some are familiar with what we call the lead and copper rule. and that's been a regulation that's been in place for from. you know. many years. and we've. you know. been performing sampling and analysis notification of folks that have homes that are built in particular periods of of time. that where lead solder may have been used. lead pipe may have been used as a result of. you know. the episode that occurred years ago in Flint. Michigan. the EPA and mass DEP now have the revised lead and copper rule. revised LCR. revised. And as part of that. we're required to do additional sampling. And if you recall. we had $139.000 grant from the state to perform a lead service line inventory. And that's all part of what is being called a lead service line replacement program. So we performed the inventory we have that. It's actually up on our website. We've got significant amount of information relative to that on our website. We've got a GIS layer that shows all of that. But the next steps that the water division and the town need to take is that we need to investigate a number of those lead service lines. geographic sampling of what the lead of what the service line material is. Once we affirm that we are required to replace any lead service that we own. any service lines that are unknown. and there is a possibility that it might be practical and feasible to assist homeowners with their side of things. So Kirsten Ryan with Kleinfelder is joining us tonight. I know that she had asked a colleague. Ajay to to join I see him here as well. So with that. I'd like to turn it over to Kirsten and Ajay to to offer up an overview of what I'm what I'm talking about. Kirsten Ryan: Thank you. Tom. hi everybody. Kirsten Ryan. project manager from Kleinfelder. here to give you an update on this program. Have a slide deck that I'm going to collaborate with. with Ajay Sharma. my colleague. and provide you that update. So let me get that going.
Unknown: I did this correctly. No. Kirsten Ryan: you're not seeing the right screen. Are you? Tom Holder: Well. we're seeing the presentation. It's not. it's not the slideshow format. but we can. we can see your screen which. which shows all the slides in left hand column in George Uveges: the you know. I think she just has to click on this. begin the slideshow. Unknown: You go. okay. Kirsten Ryan: always takes a second anyway. So. yeah. So Tom said this has been an ongoing project. I believe we started about two years ago. so kind of a slow and steady product progress. but we finished up. really. in the spring of this past of this year. So. so there's a lot of information here. and I'll try to. you know. go slow enough to explain. but not so. so slow that we're running over our time. Lot of acronyms as all these federal rules tend to be. It's a federal rule. the lead and copper rule. and it's got several versions. as Tom mentioned. the lead and copper rule originally was published in 1991 and then revised in 2021 to get to the LCR R. which were current. Only under right now. the LCR i is the lead and copper rule improvements that comes into effect in November 2027 and that is going to have profound implications for compliance with this. Going forward. it's it's a much more robust. So we're going to talk about that. So first I want to just talk about what we got done under this grant that Tom mentioned the overall program purpose of it's all about inventory. At this point. your service lines. This is what was required on the under the LCR are. you know. it's all about public health. really. at the end of the day. trying to identify if there are any lead or like containing service lines left in the ground. Most towns. including Wayland there. there aren't any. we have not found any lead lines in Wayland. What? We have a lot of incomplete information. so we're working to build that all out. So some there is a website that the town has up. It's got a lot of great information on it. and ways that people can check their own lines. which we'll talk about a little bit. So this grant was from mass DEP. We conducted really four tasks. record review and data screening. inventory development and GIS mapping. So the inventory is on the website. I would say it's complete as it needed to be for this grant. It's it's a work in progress. We'll talk about that. We did some public outreach and then put together a compliance plan. which we'll talk about going forward. So we looked a lot of historical records. all the tie cards. assessors database. we used a technique called optical character recognition. along with AI software to help get all those paper. handwritten records and try to review them quickly. And we also QE you see them manually by hand. Michael Wegerbauer: Can I ask yeah question. so. when we installed the new meters. Tom or Don were we able to review or Kirsten. were we able to review and see if there were lead lead piping being used. or is that not something that's visible when you're installing a meter? Kirsten Ryan: I mean. I could. so I know that was part of what the work for that contractor was asked to do. Yeah. I've seen a draft database. so I believe that it's still getting finalized. but that is definitely going to be very valuable information. That's going to be a great source of information to establish what the privately owned portion of the service line is and right? You know we have to the rule says you need to establish material for any any line that's older than 1986 has to be determined. And if it's unknown. then it's essentially treated as if it wasn't lead. So the map from this initial effort is on the website. interactive map.
And this is as of you know. last fall was the compliance deadline for getting that initial service line inventory. So you'll hear different. different terms. There's this phase of the project was the initial Service Inventory. as much as information as you could possibly get. By November 2024. was compiled. zero lead 12. what's called galvanized requiring replacement. This is when. if you have a galvanized pipe that you cannot prove. was never that there was never any lead upstream of it. then it's treated as if it may contain lead. because it could absorb lead over time. We also did review historical records from the town. but you know. back in the day people. it just wasn't tracked. You know. I know most communities. whenever they would find any. they would rip it out. and that's the case here. So we have about 42% of the system. probably less now. because this doesn't account for the meter replacement data. but as of last winter. about 42% still unknown. I mentioned the directed GIS map. You can go in for yourself and check what your property. what the data is showing right now. And we are encouraging folks to update on that information if you think it's an error. And I believe the next slide talks about public outreach. Yes. that's part of this. Was trying to ask residents to help out with the effort also. so that we didn't have to. you know. go poke around their basements. Nobody really likes people doing that. So we developed several materials. Um during the course of the project. and you may remember them. but last summer. we developed a postcard sort of explained how people could check their own service line. either by going and reporting it through a web link or using the QR code information on how to reduce your exposure to lead by running your cap. you know. just in case of the precaution. and we also that QR code pops up a web app that you can. you know. walks you through how to enter your information. So that's something that's still up and available and will remain so. you know. more public. more publicizing of that might be a good thing to do as part of a next phase when we see what. what data is still outstanding.
So kind of just summarizing a little bit of what I touched on here is those deliverables under the the LCR are we completed a last October. that initial Service Inventory. as I mentioned. then the public. we're required to. the town is required to send out notifications to anybody who had a lead galvanized requiring replacement or GRR or unknown service line. So. you know. as a precaution with health ways to protect yourself. if you might have a lead line. or if we're not sure what you have. So those things have all been checked off. The next thing is looking forward to this lcri And those compliance timelines. So by November 1 of 2027 is the next milestone in which you need to submit what's they're calling a baseline inventory. And why that. What that means is that forms the baseline from which your compliance plan for replacing any lead or GRR lines needs to start. and you need to replace 10% per year. So we're trying to get as many classified. The goal would be to try to get as many unknowns classified by that time. so that your replacement rate is more manageable. And Ajay is going to get into a little bit of weeds here with some of those requirements. George Uveges: Christian before. before we go. There just 111. comment. if I could. one of my concerns. and I've talked to Tom about this. is the cost to the town. for example. for any of the town buildings or schools that might have lead piping that needs to be replaced. or the lines that Are the town responsibility up to the users. residents section. and then the cost. if they decide to pay for or somehow come up with a funding program for residents that have it that's not built into the capital plan. And I think we need to start to make them aware of this potential. because it may impact what they're going to sign up to do on other things. So the sooner or the faster that we can get some of this information. even if we don't have a cost yet. but can at least identify those potential items. I think that would be a service to the town. so that we can start to get them to think about it. Because I can guarantee you. there probably isn't a lot of thought going into this right now in terms of the five year capital plan.
Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. I we have. we have put some thought towards that. We have some very high level estimates that we've been working with based on similar projects we're doing. lead service line replacements for the town of City of Somerville. for example. So we. I think. have enough information at this point to put ballpark numbers for your use. and that would be. as we get to later in the slide deck. sort of part of the plan going forward. right? Yeah. yeah. George Uveges: Because I think. you know. we have a obligation to start to get people to think about some of this. Yeah. absolutely. Kirsten Ryan: Thank you. Yeah. you're welcome. So. yeah. I'm gonna turn it over Jay to kind of get a little bit into the weeds about the requirements. I think he can probably keep it at a fairly high level. Unknown: But over to you. Ajay. thanks. Kirsten. yeah. I'm going to do my best here to keep it at a high level. The intent. really with this slide here is to just outline the number of requirements under the lcri. But my goal here is to just make this a little bit more digestible and then Kirsten. if you go over to the next George Uveges: slide. before you go off of that slide. sure. second Sure. The last box on the right hand side says sampling of secondary schools on request only are we going to make sure we sample all of our secondary schools so we're not leaving anybody out. Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. that's at your discretion. I mean. I think it's a great idea to do that. George Uveges: So Tom I can't commit for the town. but I would think that not to do that would raise reasonable questions. Let's put it that way. Tom Holder: yeah. we actually work with the facilities department right now in assisting them towards their sampling program. Okay? I
George Uveges: just would hate to have somebody look at that and say. Oh. we're not doing them all. Yep. yep. You don't care about my kids. Yeah. I understand 100%
Unknown: curious. If you wouldn't mind going to the next slide here. So. like I mentioned. the way to kind of make all of these different requirements digestible is breaking it down here into three phases. So. like. here's some just talk through phase one is everything up until July 1 of 2025. with the two major deliverables being the initial service line inventory that was submitted. as well as notifying any customer last November who had a lead GRR or unknown service line with a specific letter. So everything up to that point is completed. Now. what we're calling phase two is everything from now until 2027 again. November 1 2027. being the time. or the day. I should say that the LCR I officially goes into effect. So the way that we're or essentially what we're calling this. is a proactive compliance plan. And what we're recommending here for all these various bullets here in a phase two. in phase two. with the most important item being to eliminate unknowns and also replacing your known letter. grr service lines. But the heavy emphasis here is really on eliminating unknowns. and that'll be the first thing I talk through here. So Kirsten. I think we go to the next slide. I think it's just highlighted. There we go. and then the one after that. So how exactly do we plan to eliminate unknowns? Or let me start and back up here. Why are we planning to eliminate unknowns and replacing any known lead and gr service lines all before 2027 The goal here is really to take an administrative burden off of the town. like we had to do last November. of notifying every customer who had a lead GRR or unknown service line. if you no longer have any unknowns. no longer have any lead or gr service side service lines. you'll no longer need to continually send those notifications out. That is one of the things under this rule. is that as long as you continue to have a single unknown GRR or lead service lines. those notifications will need to continue to go out. In addition. one of the newer requirements of the lcri is also a brand new sampling protocol. so this will change how the sample is being taken. And not just that. but the lead action level exceedance will go down from 15 parts per billion down to 10. So with that new protocol in mind. there is a higher chance here of getting super close to that new action level exceedance. and ideally without any unknowns. any letter grrs. Even with the new sampling protocol. your likelihood of getting close to that lead. Action level exceedance is significantly reduced. And again. just emphasizing here. we're trying to reduce administrative the administrative burden on the town. because. again. the folks that such as the town. the folks that are going to be attending to the calls when those notifications go out. ongoing questions and concerns. that obviously takes a lot of resources and town staff to handle. George Uveges: Now. when you say town staff. are you really referring to Tom staff? Absolutely okay. I just want to make sure that we differentiate between what's going to fall on the water department and the other town. Because one of the obvious questions is. after we're through with the grant and we're into all these other costs. What is going to be the cost of the program? Who is going to bear that cost. ie water rates or the town. and what's the staffing level that's going to be required to do that? So we can build it into our financial forecast? Because my guess. remembering the model. None of this is in future cost for us. Is that correct? Tom Holder: Tom. yeah. we have not placed any. you know. cost placeholders in any of our budgets. whether it be operational or capital. for this program. So this. this will be something. as you mentioned. we will now be inserting. George Uveges: okay. and have to talk to Mike McCall in terms of how and what does he want. Does he want to put this in the water department or as a separate expense going forward. and who's going to pay? Whose dime is it coming from? Because this is not going to. This is not. I assume. a cheap process. It is not. And right now. as they're looking at the prop two and a half override. this is all going to be in addition to any costs that are currently out there.
Unknown: And I'll touch on some. uh. some of the specific ways that we're going to help provide that cost to George here in the coming slides. Kirsten Ryan: yeah. we'll talk about funding sources as well. Yeah. it's. it's not a real rosy picture at the moment. for George Uveges: funding for this. Why should this be different from anything else we're dealing Kirsten Ryan: with? And the PFAS is like kind of overshadowing this. even right on the on the larger should I go next slide? Ajay. yes. please. Unknown: Yep. So the question is. now. how exactly do you eliminate unknowns? And one of the most cost effective solutions. or approaches to this is using a predictive model and Kirsty. go to the next slide. Essentially what we're proposing here is using a predictive model to classify all your remaining unknowns. And all that would that would entail is essentially the unknowns. Right now. Kirsten. do you remember how many were on our first slide there? I don't. Okay. no worries. I think it was. it was above 1000 or so. Yeah. at least. And so if Kirsten Ryan: I can just interrupt this real quick. I just want to make sure people are aware that this methodology is one we've already been using. It's mass DEP accepts this methodology. You know. it's. it's not something that is like. unique to our approach. necessarily. or its industry. It's. it's pretty much become part of industry standard. right? Unknown: And the reason for that. and the reason why it's become an industry standard. it allows you to not have to dig up every single unknown location. The idea here. and again. being dictated by state guidance. is that based on the total number of services that the town has. that would include total being all of the known and unknown led Grr. the state guidance would then dictate a couple 100 locations that are randomly chosen in which you would need to know the material meaning that those would be the locations that you would go out and investigate. You would get the material information for. and then you would use that information to train the predictive model. And the idea here is that once that predictive model is trained. it's going to assign a probability of lead at all of the remaining unknowns. and depending on how much lead is found. So for for right now there. there hasn't been any lead found. However. this model would still treat the GRR that has been found as lead. and it will assign a probability. allowing us to prioritize inspections. again. with the goal that will not have to dig up every single unknown location in the town. George Uveges: Yeah. the answer your question. your unknowns are 20 200.2 100. Unknown: Perfect. Thank you. Any questions on this.
Kirsten Ryan: and then we'd use a random. randomized approach. so that's not biased. right. Unknown: correct. exactly the and the biases that that Kirsten is alluding to. we would want to make sure that the couple 100. and we're talking about three shy of 400 300 Yeah. 360 year ish locations. We want to make sure that all of those locations. for example. are preferentially homes that were built after 1986 or newer developments. We want to try to capture a good representative snapshot of the entire town. but only with just shy of 400 holes. Essentially. next slide. please. Pearson. and then. sorry. the one before that. It's a little delayed. What's that? The slide? Right. perfect. So again. eliminating unknowns here and then replacing any of the known lead that come up services. That's going to be a big emphasis here for phase two. that also tends to be the most expensive part of what we're proposing as part of phase two. And then the other components that we're going to be talking about is public outreach. and then sampling plan updates. Then I can go to the next slide here. Pearson. So public outreach. again. like I emphasized earlier. as long as a service in the town remains to be unknown. letter. grr. those notifications will continue need to go out. The state has also made some updates to that. so that'll include wanting to keep. or essentially keeping those notifications up to date before they go out to customers. And then. Kirsten Ryan: Essentially that deadline is coming up around again. So I think it's actually Unknown: it's December 31. of 2025 Yeah. Kirsten Ryan: So what you'll see at the end our plan in the near future is to update the inventory that exists as right now with what the information from the meter replacement program. and then those notifications will have to go out by the end of December based on that update. Unknown: Sorry. no. you're good. You're good. And then the next item. second bullet here. when services are inventoried using a. for example. vacuum excavation. any of those locations. and specifically the customers that live at those locations. they're going to need to receive a specific notification that has specific education materials about why this inventory and work is being done and ways to protect themselves. again. just being mandated by the regulation. So it has a lot of the same required language that the notifications last November had. In addition. the lcri does have additional requirements on if a lead. action level exceedance is ever met that notification form. But also need to have additional language. And then lastly. here there is a new Consumer Confidence Report regulation. So obviously that would necessitate going through that. seeing what's pertinent to lead and copper rule improvements. the new Reg. and making sure that that content is also updated in your wallet. water quality reports and then sampling plan updates. similar to what I mentioned earlier. not only is the protocol sampling going to change. however. there will also be new locations in which those samples need to be taken. So that is another thing that we'd be proposing is make sure your staff are trained and know how to take those samples with the new protocol in mind. and then helping to select those new locations. Next slide. please. Kirsten. And then the very last item here is the historical 90th percentile analysis. Basically. again. we just be taking a look at how your lead sample results have historically looked. Analyze it to make sure that you're not going to be in jeopardy when the new action level goes into play. And if need be. like I said. analyze that. perform a study. and again. with the new action level coming down from 15 parts billion down to 10. along with the new sampling protocol. there could be a higher likelihood if there still is any letter GRR in the system after 2027 of getting close to that action level. So that would be a part of what we'd be proposing here. And then next slide. please. Kirsten. so in terms of estimated costs. we'll go into a little bit more detail about what we're proposing as our next scope for this project. However. the one thing I did want to highlight there is just based on the current status of the inventory. And again. Mike. to your point earlier. this does not include any of the updates that would be made to the inventory based on the meter change our program. So current status wise. based on what we'd be looking at to replace any of the currently known gr service lines. as well as what we're projecting based on what we've seen so far of our encounter rate to lead and gr service lines. replacement total would come out to just shy of about million dollars. And George. to your point earlier. this is just very high level numbers. However. as part of our next scope. we are going to put together a more cohesive plan that will go into a little bit more detail to round out these numbers just a bit based on what we know and some of the existing clients that we support. George Uveges: Okay. quick question. This slide says it's starting in 228 the slide that you set out before said this amount is going to be before 2027 Correct? Unknown: Yeah. So that's this slide here. starting 2028 is the more accurate slide. This slide here. Kirsten Ryan: I think it might be up to the town how quickly you'd want to get into this like so you're not required to have everything replaced. I just want to make sure everybody's clear. You're not required to have all of those lines identified and replaced by 2028 or by 2027 it would be I it would be beneficial if it was. it was possible. you know. so that's why this is kind of a. like a more aspirational plan. But. you know. I think you. I think you can definitely accomplish the inventory being complete by November 2027. I. Yeah. so I guess I just don't. I just don't want to have expectations be too unrealistic. George Uveges: Okay. and the and the inventory is a 74.000 or is that not the inventory? Kirsten Ryan: Yes. it is. So this. this is quite different than some other communities. in that we understand that you have a vacuum excavator. and. you know. this assumes that the town is able to actually perform the physical work of of looking. you know. of uncovering the line so that we can identify it with our. you know. with some of our support. So. yeah. George Uveges: okay. so as you put your your cost sheet together. I think it would be beneficial to put. you know. the actual due dates that has to be done by such and such a date. Or you would do it between X and Y dates. so that people can better estimate when in the expenses are going to have to be taken care of. Unknown: Absolutely. Yeah. right. Yeah. And George. just to clarify your point there. yes. we would basically put together a cost with not just the required dates of when everything would need to get done. but also what we're making recommending as part of this proactive compliance plan. And we can differentiate the two. George Uveges: Yeah and Tom. I think you need to talk to Brian and find out if this kind of cost can be borrowed or has to be paid in the year. because you're just replacing something that you have and doing some a lot of inventory work. So I'm not sure that you could borrow for this. but we need to know one way or the other. It would be nice not to have that hit all in one year. But what the life is. and if it can be borrowed. is. is going to be the question for our investment bankers? Tom Holder: Yep. Good point. You know. we'll be working with Brian soon on this. So very good point.
Kirsten Ryan: Like curiously. yeah. so that having the. the your piece of equipment. to be able to do those. to dig those. you know. little holes. is going to save you. like. several million dollars. I mean. it is a lot of labor. though. so that is. like a consideration. um. you know. for the DEP w to be able to take that on. I think. you know. that's something to consider. Tom Holder: you know. So our intent is. you know. Don and myself and his team will be work working out a schedule so that we have enough coverage to to handle the stations. but then also assign two individuals to operate that factor truck and to be able to. you know. on a daily basis. make stops with that equipment and perform the vacuum excavation. So that's that's our intent. Kirsten Ryan: Yep. I think it's great. George Uveges: yeah. and that would be good because that's not an incremental expense that's already built into your labor structure.
Kirsten Ryan: So this graphic is a draft of. you know. kind of how we're trying to envision this playing out over time. You know. we're here. We're This is the inventory phase two that that we'd like to start on working with the DEP W to run our. you know. predictive model in the randomizer to establish this list of 361 locations that need to be excavated. preparing notifications for the homeowner to make sure they're They know what's happening. And then. you know. being able to. based on those results. revise that inventory again. and then revise the program cost estimates and apply for funding. So this is kind of how we're looking at it playing out. And then. you know. we have the year one replacement. starting. you know. in summer of 2028. I think might be a little. I don't know that it could be possible to accomplish that prior. you know. I think the other thing that the board and the town will need to think about is how to handle. how they want to handle the private side replacements that are required. because that could be. you know. a challenging thing to think through. George Uveges: especially if you have to go underneath the house or whatever to get to those pipes. Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. if it's a longer run. you know. if there's. I don't know. a stone wall or something there. There's different ways different communities have gone about it. The MWRA does have a program. you know. and you would. you know. we expect that you would become members sometime. you know. during 20. 2027 they do have a program that the financing terms are more favorable than the SRF program for service replacements. And you will find that the SRF funding requires a full replacement. You can't take SRF loan money to just replace the public side. You would need to replace the whole the whole side. So. you know. some communities have already doing it that way. Some have concerns about about that. So that's something we can we can continue the conversation around. And I'm sorry I should have explained the colors like the orange. Here are the deadlines. and this is that the deadlines where things kick in for the lcri. the sampling. the new sampling protocols kick in in January of 2028 as well. So.
okay. couple more slides. and then we'll be almost done here. So. you know. mentioned. vacuum excavation is very costly. so the town can perform that. which is wonderful. I touched upon SRF. They have they're currently offering loans. and unfortunately. not grants at this time to fund the type of inventory work that we're describing us as our immediate next steps. and they're available on a rolling basis that you know. knowing that the town has their own excavator. I don't think it's worth pursuing. you know. alone to get reimbursed for the effort. since it's. you know. relatively lower cost compared to a town that needed to hire an excavator for 300 locations. So there are construction loans available at this time for the replacement work. As I mentioned. those are also open on a rolling basis. so you don't have to wait for the typical SRF cycle. Again. mentioned that require full service replacement. However. you do need to appropriate the money locally. so you would have to get. you know. a warrant vote
in order to apply. So that's something to consider. and they do not. they do not fund the design of the replacement. you know. bid package design or bidding of a service replacement contract is not eligible. So there's another. you know. self funded thing to consider. George Uveges: Just have a little unclear the replacement activity. When would you say that would start? Kirsten Ryan: I think. I think in summer of 2028.
George Uveges: so about the same time as we'd be hitting them with the with the MWRA loan cost.
Tom Holder: and it requires. I mean. the lcri requires 10% per year. Is that the expectation? Yes. So. you know. Kirsten Ryan: assuming you have relatively few it is. You don't have to do it this way. You know. I think it's just. if it's feasible. it's desirable.
George Uveges: I'm just wondering what we're gonna be telling people as we go through. okay. okay.
Kirsten Ryan: we have prepared a task order to assist with this next phase we mentioned. I guess the other number was a little bit off. but anyway. our scope would include support for the inspection process the town. vacancing the public side. We would be usually utilizing the predictive modeling. you know. kind of guiding the town on the at list of addresses to investigate. updating the inventory. updating the GIS. submitting it to DEP. updating the GIS map. providing those required consumer notices. providing some content for the CCR. water quality report. disturbance notifications. really A lot of public outreach assistance we had also built in a couple more updates for the board and formalizing that clients plan and assistance with applying for a loan. George Uveges: and this would be physical 26 Project. correct. correct. Correct? And that is not in our current budget. right? Tom Holder: It would be under contracted services. George Uveges: I knew I understand where it'd be under. but that wasn't the question. Tom. Question is. do you have enough money in your budget to do this? And the other things you had planned.
Unknown: it will be. yeah.
George Uveges: So something said. get a gift. Okay.
Kirsten Ryan: Okay. lastly. let's see just wrapping up here. Yeah. I didn't. I don't know if there's this. I don't. I don't remember if you have a fall town 2025. town meeting that these are just questions for discussion. For that. you know. spring. obviously. I know you're putting in capital requests in the near term for the spring appropriation. So just it is an aggressive timeline that we laid out. and the cost would be rough approximations. But you know. the trade off of kind of delaying overall progress would be higher long term costs and regulatory burden. potentially and possible public concern. So these are just some things to consider. And I think that's all we have. Men. Tom Holder: As you can see. this is a significant issue. significant effort required. significant cost. You know. we wanted to get this information out to the board to to brief you on what this is all about. And so. you know. we'll be planning on how to pay for it. how to staff it. But it's not optional. So it's one of these things that we have to we have to figure out. Kirsten Ryan: well. I guess we probably should have mentioned that. You know. with the federal government changes. there was some thought that maybe that certain elements would be rolled back. or whatever. but they the Trump administration has a firm support for this rule. This they have come out and said the EPA has come out and said they are not going to roll this one back. Did I say that correctly? AJ. yeah. yeah. Unknown: And then we also know that the state. Massachusetts. is planning on also writing the same regulation into their own state regulations. and mass DEP could make some of these requirements a little bit more stringent. So we know. at a bare minimum. the LCR requirements established by the federal government need to be met.
Kirsten Ryan: Yeah. yeah. We did have an earlier slide that the replacements have all have to be done by 2037 so there is. there is quite a timeline in that helps. help cities where they have. you know. 1000s of these things to deal with. right? If there's a handful of them and it's feasible to just deal with them. You know. it's something to think about. so
George Uveges: a lot to take in. Kirsten Ryan: Yes. I know it's George Uveges: very informative. Okay. Tommy. if you go through this at all with Mike McCall Tom Holder: in passing. so he needs to have a better understanding of this as well.
George Uveges: Okay. questions by the board ADU. Unknown: So my understanding is that so far. we have found zero lead. Is that have Tom? I guess maybe there's a Tom question. have we looked at all of the municipal buildings. the school buildings? Is that in the zero?
Tom Holder: Now. I recall in the inventory. there were 12. What was the 12 that we had to do? You remember? What if you want Unknown: to see your locations? George Uveges: What is it about the galvanized?
Unknown: Yeah. the galvanized. right. damn. Are you asking where the GR locations were? Tom Holder: Yeah. I just and trying to was. I don't. I don't know. particularly. you know where these locations are. but Kirsten Ryan: I don't know off the top of my head about the schools. I mean. I just want to clarify. though. that we're talking about the the regulation covers the service. where it comes from. the meter. I mean. I'm sorry. from the street and to the house to the meter. It doesn't cover the premise plumbing. which is the plumbing internal to the building. George Uveges: but it does cover from the street to the house. Kirsten Ryan: Yes. that's service. Yeah. Unknown: okay. And there also would be. there may not be. there might be daycares. but on your existing lead and copper sampling plan. there would be a couple schools at least on that list and which samples are being taken. Is that right? Tom. Don Don Millette: Yeah. correct. So. so currently. right now. under the current rules. we're required to take two samples from two different schools. and we do it on a rotating basis. Typically. I'll. I'll rotate the town. Buildings. the town schools. and then I will have a separate list of rotating for the daycares in town. Unknown: And so far. we have not found lead. Is that correct? Correct? Don Millette: I mean. we've been sampling. you know. for lead and copper my entire career in the water industry. And. you know. like here in Wayland. you know. currently. right now. we. we have never violated the 90 percentile rule. So that means. you know. out of the the. I'm sorry. out of the 30 required samples that were required to take. you know. you basically figure out your 90th percentile. and that number cannot exceed the state and federal. you know. lead and copper level.
George Uveges: I am now confused. but that's okay.
Unknown: What I'm trying to figure out is that's a non answer to your question. Judy. are we going to have a really big problem? We're going to have a very small problem. And if all the municipal buildings and the daycares and schools are tested on a regular basis and they all pass muster. whatever the current rules are.
Don Millette: it's really these unknowns. Well. it's. it's. it's really the unknowns. you know. And and those unknowns are most likely going to be in the old. older areas of town where. you know. galvanized pipes were used. you know. like back in the day. you know. And those. those are the ones that we're going to have to investigate. George Uveges: Don you're testing. though. is that lead in the water? Or were you testing for lead pipes on the property? Don Millette: We we sample the water for for lead. am copper. George Uveges: So okay. but that's different. You know. if those pipes have not started to breach. you might not pick up anything. Don Millette: yeah. but this is all part of the same program. you know. yeah. it like Unknown: they correlate pretty much. George. yeah. if there was any lead pipes. those samples would most likely come back. But again. it's. it's the risk of the lower action level. And then. like. Don was saying. to calculate the 90th percentile. there's like. a whole new protocol that would get you might maybe closer to getting close to that lower action level. And that's where the Kirsten Ryan: risk. I mean. the town does implement corrosion control. and the new water facility will. you know. as well. So that's that's that's probably why you haven't exceeded anything. and in combination with there may perhaps not be any lead in the system. But I guess to your question. Judy. with six. about 60% of everything classified and only having found 11 or 12 so far. you know logic would dictate that. hopefully you're not going to triple or quadruple or have 10 times more. hopefully you're only going to maybe double that amount. Unknown: and that y'all are curious to the public facing map on the town website that'll show you Kirsten Ryan: actually got it up right now. Okay? I can show you.
We can see it here. okay. so. for example. the orange color is. is a galvanized and
Unknown: then if you zoom in. Kirsten Ryan: you gotta zoom in to like the individual. So this is Sherman Ridge Road. The customer owned side is galvanized. Unknown: And again. this is based on a very conservative. rightfully conservative assumption. in which. as you can see here. even though the system side of that service line was plastic. we can't prove that that galvanized service was ever downstream of any lead. And again. galvanized pipe ever. it was never. never. sorry. never downstream of any lead. And so we can't ever galvanize pipe typically would act as a sponge for lead. And that's the conservative approach. Is just getting it out of your system.
Kirsten Ryan: It tends to. when you're zoomed out. it blocks like several parcels at once. usually. Unknown: yeah. so if you see multiple points here. you can continue to zoom in. and that'll show you. and also mean that there's. there's multiple services going to that single. single property. George Uveges: yeah. the one that you just had up. did that say it was a government building?
Kirsten Ryan: It's not going to say at the 139 Boston pulse road. I don't know what George Uveges: it says. System. own material. government. Oh. galvanized. I'm sorry. yeah. Unknown: is there a call? Color for unknown. Kirsten Ryan: yeah. unknown is green. Unknown is green. yeah. non lead is like. we know it's not lead. okay? And if you click on it. and if there is information. it'll say copper or what have
Unknown: you. no. And then Judy on the unknown ones. we do have an option where. obviously. if the customer can help to identify what their material is. they can they can directly access their own inspection form and submit that information to us. Or if it's incorrect. they can also do that. Okay. thank you.
George Uveges: Okay. when we test the lead. do we also test the AC? Are
Kirsten Ryan: you asking us? No. we're not. We're not looking for that. I mean asbestos cement pipe. You mean. Unknown: yeah. the aspects month is worse than live. Kirsten Ryan: I don't. yeah. I don't know if the system has any water mains made of asbestos. Meant. I've never heard of service line made of asbestos cement Tom Holder: was Don still on. was I? Yeah. Don Millette: yeah. So we. we have less than a mile of of AC pipe in town. and we do sample. we for asbestos. I believe that's coming up later this year in the fourth quarter of our sampling plan. So we will be pulling a sample this year for that.
George Uveges: Okay. anything else we need these folks to go through to scare us? Oh. one more thing. I think I know the answer. but to any of the deadlines for the LCR Compliance would that affect any of our borrowing for the water supply project?
Unknown: So I guess you elaborate. Kirsten Ryan: that's a Tom question. Yeah.
Tom Holder: yeah. So if I understand the correct question correctly. does the results of our lead inventory and all of this work impact our ability to get the SRF funding? Yeah. is that what you're asking? Mike. yeah. I mean. and you know. and I'll answer this briefly. but then I might just kick it right back to to Kirsten. is that as part of the as part of the SRF funding program. we have to meet. you know. particular criteria. ensure that we're operating our water system properly. and the work that we've done. performing this inventory and embarking on phase two of The program. we are meeting all of the expected requirements. and we're on par with with what the expectations are to meet the lead and copper rule revised and improvement. So what we're doing will ensure that we're able to to meet the SRF requirements. Unknown: Okay? Thank you. Yeah. George Uveges: The only other impact it could have that I could see is if it was so huge. it would impact our ability to service this and the loans. And I don't see that coming out of here. I
Yeah. anything else anybody has? Okay. we thank you very much. Tom Holder: Thank you all thank you. All right. thanks. Kirsten. talk soon. George Uveges: Bye. Thank you. And Tom. have you signed up for the this proposal. the 70. whatever it is. $8.000
Tom Holder: I'm preparing to Yes. I have it in my desk. Okay.
George Uveges: all right. Next topic is the agenda. the water Enterprise Fund budget. funding motions. Mike. it's your motion. Did you want to start? Michael Wegerbauer: I can start. But I. I had mentioned to Tom that I have kind of a hard stop at 730 or at 740 so I'm not sure we'll be able to finish this tonight. I can. at least I did simplify the motions so I can share those. Is on my screen. If I can figure out how to do that. let's see.
So these motions are simply to ensure that we have a voice and how. how we're managing the water enterprise fund right now that I feel has been taken out of our bailiwick a little bit. and this is these two motions are basically just to firmly bring us back into the mix when it comes to making financial decisions about water enterprise fund. So the first is a motion to request that we designate retained earnings as a funding source for the operating budget in an amount equal to the contingency expense dollar amount. This is how it was designed years ago. This how we set it up with Louise plus any anticipated xx excess projection for retained earnings above the target we set at the beginning of the year. What this does is the deal ours main concern has been with our stated revenue budget in our in our operating budget article. and the reason it's been overstated is because we intended to use the retained earnings as a funding source for the contingency expense. That's how it was designed. So we've been overstating our revenue budget. And when we met with them. they really didn't have much of a problem with our balance. our retained earnings balance. they didn't mention that at all they had they said it was going to be a quick meeting. because we said Tom may or may not join he was on vacation. They said. Well. I think this is going to be very quick. I had sent them an overview of our rate setting process. including the amount of our expense savings each year for the past. I think. four years. and they noted that our expense savings was in line with our lower revenue. So they didn't have a problem with our rates. the rates that we set this year. So in any case. if we bring this back in line. as you can see here. from the outset. when we started. when we added the contingency expense line for every year that we had the contingency. contingency expense listed in our budget. we match that as using retained earnings as a funding source. So it's just to put that back in place. plus any projection where we might be above retained earnings. dor will be very happy. because our budget for water revenue will be lower and will likely hit that most of the time. So that's that's number one. Number two is. in more recent years. we found that finance staff. or FinCom. I'm not sure who. but they were. instead of borrowing for large capital acquisitions. they were putting that on water revenue. not even retained earnings. They were asking us to increase our revenue for that one year to pay for a capital expense. I don't think they understood how that would affect our ability to set rates. or the requirement it would put on us to set rates much higher in that year to cover a long term capital expense. So this makes sure that they would have to come to us to get our approval to use something other than debt or borrowing as a funding source. So none of this restricts restricts the town from choosing a path it just firmly puts back in play our decision making process and our approval and as water commissioners. this is our responsibility. So these are the two motions. I've simplified them a bit as I mentioned. I can answer any questions folks have. And because this. this needs to be sorted out before the warrant is approved. we've got some time. It's not as though this has to be decided tonight. and that's why we put it off a couple times because it's not super urgent. We've got a lot on our plate. Okay? George Uveges: Thank you. Mike. I mean. I sent out some information. Mike says it's a my opinion. but I look at it more as information. I like to. Go through. Can you turn off your sharing please.
Michael Wegerbauer: before we go into it? Does anyone have any questions about about that. or any comments? I know George is against it. so we're going to hear the cons. and I'm not sure why. why he's against it. but.
Unknown: okay.
George Uveges: I tried to go through and provide information in terms of what reality is versus some of the things that have been thrown around. The first big surprise that I got was in terms of the free cash required. Now the information that we had today will change this fiscal 29 with the MWRA in the RSF. because the timing is going to be different. So I don't think this increase is going to happen. but I'll have to go back and check. But the real issue is here. because
Michael Wegerbauer: free cash for the water Enterprise Fund. George Uveges: yes. yeah. free cash for the water Enterprise Fund. The issue is that we the way we have set up our fees. or our we call it the rates for the fees for the water usage. We've got that increase in 27 built throughout the year. But the problem is that will be borrowed as part of the town's borrowings. and we will have to make that principal payment in the fall. being. normally November of 26 which is fiscal 27 even though we've only collected four months worth of so we're going to have a shortfall that we have to cover. Now we haven't had that before. because our interest expense was not as large as the cash balance or free cash balance that we had. So we're able to cover those interest payments. But as you'll see on that sheet. the amount that we're going to have to fund. we will not have the cash collected from this. and we may have a problem of a shortfall and not be able to service that debt if we do not increase. let alone decrease. that amount of free cash. So that's the first issue. George. Michael Wegerbauer: Can we just clarify some terms? We have a fund balance. and we have retained earnings. and you're talking about free cash. which is something I hear in the town side of the of the budget. but I have never. we've never discussed that. At least I haven't. George Uveges: It's just another term for the cash balance. free cash. Michael Wegerbauer: if you remember the fund the fund balance. or the retained George Uveges: earnings fund balance. not talking about retained earnings at all. this is cash on hand. cash we have to cover the expenditures that we have throughout the year. Michael Wegerbauer: So what does this have to do with our ability to make these decisions? These are strictly to ensure that we get to weigh in on these decisions. It's simply stating clearly that we get to do our job what we were voted to do. George Uveges: No. it's not Mike. It is Mike. You're setting it the with the part of the part of the expenses be paid by retained earnings. but we are going to have enough retained earnings anyways. We've got to significantly increase the rates to cover this timing difference or cash flow difference in terms of your debt service payments. It doesn't recognize the reality of life. Michael Wegerbauer: Our retained earnings have gone up every year. George. every single year it is I have. okay. all right. I I do not have time at this point. That's why I said I'll start it. But I don't think we're going to decide it tonight. And I really asked the other board members if. if you could please look into this. And we are diametrically opposed on this. George and I. and to me. it seems straightforward. This is just giving us the ability to make decisions that we are authorized and responsible for making. George Uveges: It sends the wrong message. Mike. this is your sheet on retained earnings. and you'll see it's basically flat. We had one year where we had a good year because of covid. and build more water than we have in any of the other years. and that gave us a push. but basically your retained earnings and your cash balance is basically flat over that time period. There's no build. there's the numbers. Michael Wegerbauer: There is a build. I can share my screen with the numbers. but George Uveges: this is a sheet from the town. This is. My sheet. This is the information from the town. Michael Wegerbauer: I don't know what you're looking at. I don't see anything on the screen. Nothing out there. George. there's been nothing up there the whole time you've been talking so George Uveges: okay. we haven't done it should be Hold on. I've got it up on mine. So let me see what we got here. I
Michael Wegerbauer: Matt has shared what our retained earnings balance has been year after year. and it's increased. And everyone has that sheet. and it's shown an increase. So I'm not sure where you're getting this new information. but George Uveges: well. it went out to everybody. It was in their package. Michael Wegerbauer: okay. but we went through this model with with Matt for many meetings in a row. and it showed an increase in retained earnings. steady increase. So.
Unknown: So Mike. you can't stay right. so maybe we should move this. Michael Wegerbauer: I think. So. yeah. yeah. thank you. Judy. so George Uveges: luckily. that's
Michael Wegerbauer: okay. all right. So. yeah. I'll send out to Tom that the updated motions that I just read through. and we can look at it next meeting
tonight. right I am George Uveges: then I I think you need to stay and we need to talk about this right now. Michael Wegerbauer: We're short players. Mike. come on. The game must go on. George Uveges: Well. we all but the broken ribs are keeping me on the reserve list. Michael Wegerbauer: Yeah. hopefully you'll be back soon. Hopefully. Unknown: All right. good luck. Mike. but not too much. Thanks. Michael Wegerbauer: Thanks. Take care. Bye.
George Uveges: Just so that
Tom Holder: are you unable to share it? George. percent.
George Uveges: I'm having real problems just even staying on Zoom. so hold on. Got too many things anyways. in the pack. in the in the package. in the that you have the packet. there is a sheet that talks about retained earnings. okay? And I don't. does everybody have their print out from the package? Yeah. I have it open. Okay? You can see the there's two lines. One is your fund balance. okay. and the other is your retained earnings. And I apologize for some reason I can't get there on here. Tom Holder: is this the sheet that has the bar graph on the right top? George Uveges: Yes. it is. Okay. yep.
Unknown: Yeah. page 34
George Uveges: I don't have a page. I don't have the page numbers on here. but it's it says water enterprise fund beginning fund balance. Tom Holder: yes. that's the one. It's got a bar graph. yep. blue and red bars. yes. George Uveges: And you can see that the fund balance at the end of 20 was 1.000.005 and is 1.000.004 at the end of 25 so basically flat. your retained earnings is a million. Oh. 44 to million. 151. so it's up about $100.000 for five years. So that's what I'm talking about. I mean. it's been fairly flat. and the benefit came in 21 where we had the large increase. because you can see it went from one four to one eight in cash. and from one zero to one three. and that was the covid years. So you know. when we talk about it being built. that you know that's not what's happening. So I'm just trying to get the actual facts in this.
Tom Holder: Come on. We are seeing a screen. It's the Zoom invite I know
George Uveges: I apologize. this is not
Unknown: what I'm trying to do. Any
George Uveges: idea I do I have to leave the meeting and come back.
Tom Holder: I mean. We can hear and see you loud and clear. I just don't know if. if that. if the Zoom connection is prohibiting you from sharing a screen. George Uveges: Yeah. I have no idea. But anyway. so that's. that's the one. Now. the second thing is. you know. we talk about the fact that. you know our expenses are always underneath. are always less than the actual what's been budgeted. But if you take a look at the sheet that has the financial summary. you'll see that what it doesn't include is the encumbrances and liabilities. and that wipes out most of that difference so you don't have that. I think I can share maybe this one. Tom Holder: Yeah. this is the one that says financial summary in the top left.
George Uveges: Do you see that? Nothing yet. I
Unknown: I don't know.
Michael Wegerbauer: I give up. all right?
Tom Holder: Something's happening here. George Uveges: Yeah. I'm going crazy. I'm going out for a drink. Hold on.
Tom Holder: Now we have the acrobat reader screen. and you got more than I do. So. yeah. I just figured I'd let you know what we're seeing. I
George Uveges: I don't know if you have it. but it's came out in the packet from Anita on Friday. Unknown: It's page 36
I'm looking at something that says financial summary. Yep. I have to look at it sideways. Yeah. Did we lose George? Oh. there he is.
Maybe we should make this one of the first items for the next meeting. because we have other topics tonight. right? And George. we can't hear you. George. you're on mute.
George Uveges: The problem. we can do that. but people better understand that. The problem is we're sending a very mixed message to the board. a Select Board and the Finance Committee when we talk about these kinds of things at the same time. we're asking them to underwrite a lot of our cost. So we'll. we'll put this away. but please read the information that I've given you. look at the inserts. because what you're being told is not necessary. The facts in terms of. he doesn't have all the information. and I've shared it with him. but he doesn't want to recognize it. like the encumbrances and liabilities. the fact that. you know. we historically have not made our net number because of revenue shortfall. And I think Tom You told me that three last three years. we've used some of the contingency. which means. if you adopted his promotion. you would be reducing retained earnings for that. So just keep in mind that I am not a little bit opposed. but violently opposed to this. because it sends the wrong message and the information is not correct. That's why I talk about the timing and the appropriate reserve levels. Tom Holder: Can you see? Unknown: Oh. there it is.
Tom Holder: I know we're wrapping up the discussion. I. I just figured I I gave this a whirl. and so I was able to to find. I'm not sure if there's. if there's anything you wanted to recap. George. yeah. you George Uveges: can. Thank you very much. You can see here. here. we've lost money. We made money there. But if you see at the bottom of that schedule. that's because the town gave us. Or $200.000 for consulting fees that we had budgeted. So if it hadn't been for that. we would have had a loss. and we just basically broke even in 25 Tom does a good job if he sees the revenue shortfall. which is this line right here. where. what are you looking at? See it says revenue. Budget Variance. You can see that most of the years we are significantly short and making our revenue target right here. right the only time we didn't is in 21 where we had the actual results from the covid year. we'll pump more water than we have in any of the other years. So. you know. we just need. I mean. we. first of all. we have the right. okay. and no disagreement with Mike on that. We have the right at any time when we set the rates to go through and use retained earnings and put that into warrant. that's our right. but sending messages to the town in the Select Board that we're going to dictate it. versus doing anything on a consulting basis with them. especially with what we have coming forward to me. is just crazy. to put it bluntly. So I will get off my box soapbox. and there you go. Tom Holder: there was the other one you were referencing. Yes. George Uveges: you can see. this is the sheet. and you can see. this is your cash level. and this is your fund balance that I'm talking about that we need to have for cover the payment of the debt service when it comes it comes through. because we're on the water tower. it's a 26 expense. our first payment. it's going to be borrowed in 26 and and we're going to talk. when we get to a different section. about what we might be able to do. But that debt service is going to be in November of 27
November of 26 in fiscal 27 and we've only collected four months of the 12 months worth of the rate increase. so we've got to have enough cash to pay that debt service.
Tom Holder: And was this. this line in yellow George. which is the certified retained earnings. which you get from the finance department. Is this what you were referring to when. when Mike was still on the screen. when he was George Uveges: talking about. we build it each year? Yes. and that's not a build each year. And this is not my schedule. This is from the town. Unknown: So this goes to FY 25 and you were talking about FY 27 is that correct? George Uveges: Well. I'm talking about in 27 we need the cash to do the debt service. because there's a sheet in there. if you can find it like that. has the it's called free cash required.
Tom Holder: Which which screen are you talking about? George Uveges: George. I'm sorry it says should. should be free cash required. Tom Holder: Let me just see what encumbrances I'm going to scroll. Let me know if you there's a handful of here. Just stop me if you see the one that you're referring to.
George Uveges: it wasn't in the package that went out. Oh. I'm sorry. okay. yeah. it was in the one that I was been working on and finally got the information I needed. Tom Holder: Oh. the municipal account one. George Uveges: well. it was with that. but it's called free cash required. It was in the three that went out. Tom Holder: Yeah. I can
George Uveges: Tom sent those out today.
Tom Holder: Yeah. with me one minute here. I
uh. free cash analysis. George Uveges: yes. uh. free cash required. yeah. but the Tom Holder: yeah analysis. yeah. yep. I got it all right. Bear with me here.
George Uveges: I'm sorry. folks. that I got. I think I had too many things open. There's a problem. How about that? Yep. can you make that a little larger at all? Let's see. And if not. don't. okay. that's better. So what. what it is. is that we have got debt service. and we're the debt. We don't borrow it. The town borrows it. and we make the payment. They use our cash to make those payments. And when I talking to Brian. got some schedules for him. What happens is that you pay the principal and one interest. Payment in November or in the fall. and you make your second interest payment in the spring. So you've gotta have enough cash on hand to cover that. And so those two debt services is the 1.000.002 53. that's the cash that we have to have on hand. I'm sorry. that is the cash we have available. Let me see go back.
Okay. start. We need 2.2 million. You see under total right here. Yeah. right. no. up on top the under fiscal 27 go up to Oh. yep. got it. yep. yep. okay. and go right here. total. right there. Yeah. that's the quorum required. Out of that. we're going to have collected 756.000 and this is all work in process. I've sent it to Matt to look at. so don't view this as gospel. but the the information is the same. So we're going to collect 756.000 that means we need 1.000.002 in cash to cover it. We don't want to use all retainer and all free cash that we have and go to zero. So we have to have some amount. So I use 15% and that you can just adjust that to whatever you want. Means that we need $2 million roughly. of free cash. and we have 1.000.004 at 630. 24 so that would give us. we need an increase of about $600.000 so that's what we have to look at in terms of using that cash amount. We can't we can't just consider it as available for losses. because it also has to be used as cash to fund our operations. that's the message.
So please look at the sheets that were sent out for this. both in the packet and in the other three sheets. I've asked Tom if he could send that other three sheets out as a supplemental package. and we're going to work on that so that everybody has it. But that's the thought process. The second part of that the MWRA. I have to rework. because he gave us different information in terms of the timing of when those payments would be due versus the normal town debt.
All right. so apologize to my problems with the shares Guys. Tom Holder: yeah. we got through it. Unknown: No worries.
all right?
George Uveges: Okay. status of the capital project. I'm not even going to try. Tom. could you put that sheet up that did go out in the package. Tom Holder: in the in the packet? Yep. All right. Bear with me. It's going to take me in A moment to find it in.
George Uveges: I. if you can. we can just everybody has it. should have it as part of their package in front of them. So. yeah. Tom Holder: if you want to start talking about. I'm trying to shift gears and get that back up on my screen. George Uveges: Okay. talks about three. three areas of. actually four areas of new debt coming through. This is not dual source. net. This is all the column. if you remember. in terms of the model. it was called new debt. Other than dual source. you've got water mains. water tank. MWRA is. And other and this is what's driving those There you go. This is what's driving that increase in terms of the interest in interest expense. So there's two things to take away from this. One is that we've got risk. obviously. in terms of the any cost increases coming through on this that would drive up that interest. Interest expense. The interest rate that Matt used was 4% in 26 and 5% in 27 and on. So we possibly have some upside in the interest expense for that. But most of the dollars. as you'll see. are coming in in 26 the life of most of these items. because this does not include the equipment purchases. which he also has in there. is 20 years. So it'd be 20 year financing and equipment normally is five years. So the debt service in 26 of this is 1.2 million. I'm sorry. 27 because it's being borrowed in 26 and so the one of the things that we can look at. if we have any flexibility with the town. is the timing of when this is going to be borrowed. and if it could be pushed into the next year. That provides us a little bit of time to build up enough cash to help fund that as it comes due. Because again. this rate increases. You remember. is billed into 27 not 26 and so depending on when these are going to be done or paid. in 27 we will not have other than four months collected when the first payment has to be made. So that's part of the requirement in terms of the additional cash.
And when the you listen to. I don't know if anybody listens to the FinCom discussions. You know one of the FinCom members wanted to know why. what we do with the money? Because the water is free. and that's not a truism. This is where a lot of it goes.
Questions. you understand the point I'm making here? Do I need to clarify anything? No. it's all very clear to me. Judy.
Unknown: I'm getting tired. and this is all swimming in my head now. So okay. Is that making sense to me? George Uveges: Yeah. look at it this way. you got a credit card bill that's due on the 15th. but you don't get paid until the 30th. That's what. that's what we're talking about.
Unknown: So it looks like with it's 8 million in 2026 is that correct?
Tom Holder: You're looking at this figure right Michael Wegerbauer: here. right? Yes. yeah. And
George Uveges: the biggest part of that is the water tank. right? So if any of that can be pushed out a little bit. so we don't have to borrow the money in 26 and have the first payment in 27 it provides us more time. Tom Holder: But I think that that borrowing will be happening as early as November. because that project will begin in the spring and will be completed in the fall of calendar year 26 so I think that if that borrow occurs in November. I think the debt service will hit in fiscal 27 George Uveges: they borrow before when the project starts. Is that the idea? Tom Holder: Yeah. because we have to have. we have to have funds to be able to execute a contract. Okay. yeah. So it's either a ban or a borrow. And I know that Brian is doing a borrow in November. I believe that these items are loaded into that George Uveges: Okay. so that's why the first payment is going to be in November of 27 when we would only have. I'm sorry. November of 2626 2727 No. 2626 Tom Holder: next November. Yeah. yeah. calendar year 26 right. George Uveges: And we would only have collected four months of that increase at that point. So we have to have cash on hand to cover the other eight months until it's repaid over the year.
And that goes back to the prior comment about why we need free cash or cat cash balance. Okay. can I clarify anything? Or Judy looks like she's saying. What in the world is going on? Unknown: Yeah. I'm I'm a goner. sorry. Let's move on. I don't want to hold everyone George Uveges: up. All right. Well. if. So you look at this. and if we need to check. just give me a call. You and I can talk individually. We just can't get a group. Unknown: right? Gotcha?
Tom Holder: Okay. come for pizza on Thursday.
Unknown: Pizza and spreadsheets. Okay. there we go.
George Uveges: Okay. and the next one. I don't know if you can put it up. This is the schedule on that went out today on the potential impact of the water rate increases. water rate analysis. v6
and this is. this is a started with what Judy had asked for and then expanded on it. And basically this is what Mike McCall had asked for. saying. Okay. tell me for various users. what the impact is on the various levels of the user and what? So what we've done is that Tom people and Sarah did a great job in coming up with a number of accounts. total water Billings and average bills at the various dollar levels. Okay. that's the first three columns. Unknown: This one I get you should it's yours. Okay. George Uveges: And then we go through we get the impact of the rate increase for other debt service. happy hollow. MWRA in total. Because again. the finance committee wanted to get the breakdown between happy hollow and the MWRA versus having it combined. So we broke those out. and footnote B and C gives you the percentage of those. then that gives you the total increase. and then you get your projected average water rate bill. So for example. as a residential you have 85 accounts that have an average of $4.000 as a billing. contrasted to 2700 Dave. an average water bill of 271 on the top line. So the increase is $200 for the lowest level person. and 3000 Oh. 25 for the highest billing. taking the highest billing to 7100 and the smallest building to an average of 500 and then we do the same thing with commercial same thing with municipal buildings. And one of the things that's interesting on this one is and Tom and I have talked. I am a little suspicious about the municipal rates that are being used. because I'm sorry I'm not being built because it seems low to me. You know. there's only an only $7.000 water billings for a year for municipal water usage. So Tom is going to investigate why that is irrigation is about 27.000 for 21 irrigation sources. and Tom says that's because most of them don't work. So that's why that's lower. And then we have schools. which are 34.000 Which to me also seems a little bit low for 12 meters. you know. an average of $3.000
you know. you've got a lot of people that are more than that. just for their residents. and you've got a number of school buildings and students. So that's again. a question. And then we have some common meter accounts where they're tied in for condos or your housing authority. which is an FHA. and broke that out in terms of those. So that gives you your picture in terms of your averages for the different users. And then if you go. you go to the next page. Mike. and so with the next page is I just took those amounts to show the impact of the increases from these based on each type. for municipal. municipal irrigation schools. and in total. Because. again. this is something that is going to have to be paid for by the town as they go through. And you can see it's about a $51.000 increase in terms of their water Billings. And that's assuming that these numbers are right. which they may not be. I don't know. I'm just. shall we say. my suspicious is up. Tom Holder: and we will. we'll follow up and make certain that these are accurate. George Uveges: yeah. and this is information we've never had before. so and that avoided Judy for asking for it and for the work that Sarah did. Tom Holder: Yeah. it was. it was quite an effort to get those figures together. George Uveges: Yeah. If trigger. that's 10.000 billings that she had to sort through. because 5000 customers and two buildings a piece. And by the way. the total of that comes pretty close to our revenue for water usage. Remember that this is based on billings. and that's based on collections. It was actually closer than I thought it would be. Questions. this help you. is this what you think they're looking for? Anybody still waiting. That's good stuff. Yeah. no. still here. It's good stuff. I'll buy Sarah a slice of pizza on Thursday.
Unknown: Um. well. I'm with you. George in that I'm I find the numbers awfully low for the schools. Um. does seem a little strange. George Uveges: yeah. especially because schools are billed at Tier rates. I'm told. whereas municipal are only billed at tier one rates. no matter how much water they use. which is something that we need to take a look at. Tom Holder: But now that we have the format and she's got the formulas locked in now we can take a closer look at at the actual raw data and make some changes if we find some some things that are not reported quite right here. George Uveges: So I do software should help with that too. right? Unknown: So I assume that the municipal buildings in the schools also have the new meters. They do.
George Uveges: It's a matter. I think. of capturing those. First of all. is everything metered? Is the first question. And then second is. are those meters covering everything in the building. or are we getting the proper reads on those or something else going on. We don't. I don't know. We don't know. Tom Holder: Yeah. I mean. I can tell you that everything is metered. It is very likely. almost guaranteed. that the meters are located in a place whereby that's they're capturing all the consumption. I think it's going to wind up being. you know. data manipulation. When we take a look at. you know. where the raw data is coming from. George Uveges: let's not call it data manipulation. because that has a bad tone to Tom Holder: it. Yeah. not being a data analysis. yeah. George Uveges: the accumulation of the data. yeah. yep. And the the other thing on this and the rate impacts with the want to bring in here the dor that discussion. I think Brian was we can take that down. Thank you. Yep. Brian was very surprised and pleased at how it went. Basically. they said that they would. they understood what we were trying to do. And that was the new meters. and moving to a quarterly instead of annual billing to give us volume an increase in terms of the Billings. because by going to quarterly. you'll get one extra billing of a quarter in this fiscal year. Okay. and so that should give us a boost. Now how much of that boost is. I don't know. and I couldn't model it. but it should be significant. So we'll have to take a look at that. And while you know. we had a good meeting. they said. We hear you. but we don't. We try. We we're going to make sure that our trust is warranted. We're going to follow up with you in terms of how this goes. And so I've talked to Tom. and I think what we should do is have at each of our meetings a little financial summary of where we are in terms of the Billings and cost against budget to see that where we're trending. Because I think he's. I think I was told that the our total billing so far for the two months is only like $10.000 higher. Unknown: When does the quarterly Bill start? Tom Holder: You're jumping the gun. That's the next agenda item.
Unknown: Yeah. what I would I could tell Mike Spellman really wanted to know. I've got Tom Holder: the answer. January 1. George Uveges: Okay. that's. that's the target date. Yes. yeah. So we will see. But let us say that Mike. that Tom and I have had this discussion several times. That Fair. fair. Okay. any other questions on that? No. Unknown: So you said that the schools are paying the tiered rates. but the municipal or buildings are at the flat tier one. George Uveges: I believe that is true. right Tom Tom Holder: that that's the way it's. Things are set up currently. yes. Unknown: and the irrigation is at tier one. So not. not to be. you know. sketchy here. or anything. but if. if we at least build them at cost. how would that impact our rate increases in terms of residential? Would it? How much would we be able to not increase on residential if we get the municipal to pay at least. I don't know. cost of water? Well. they do Tom Holder: that. That tier one. George Uveges: $6 it cost is about 11. right? So. but the problem is that their volume is not that high. So even if you double it. I mean. you're talking about what. 7033 you're talking about $30.000
Unknown: Yeah. I'm surprised by how low it was. but I guess that's one of the things we want. Tom Holder: Yeah. okay. George Uveges: they are on the hunt. but one of the things I want to be careful of is nobody decides that this is a witch hunt because we don't think we're getting what we want. So we're looking for how we can punish them. That's not politically smart. and that's not what we're trying to do. We're just trying. at this stage. trying to understand and then see what makes sense for all users. Unknown: Right? Agreed?
George Uveges: All right. anything else on that set helpful? We'll. we'll. we'll keep trying to refine that. and we'll come back and Tom will start to present us with the actual results versus budget every month going forward. Unknown: Thank you very much. Really appreciate all the hard work. Tom please let Sarah know. Tom Holder: I will pass on. yeah. and this. and she's got support from from some of the others in the office as well. I'll let them all know. but yeah. George Uveges: tell her she they all get a big star. Okay. am I? Tom Holder: Am I? Yeah. So we are. Middle of September. We're about 88% complete. and that's based upon the number of meter installs. You know we are. as you'll look back on the progress reports each month. we're starting to slow down. The meter locations that we're currently having installed are the the more difficult ones we're having to. you know. reschedule. trying to seek opportunities to get into people's homes. you know. So this is. this is expected. It's pretty typical of a meter replacement program. It was forecasted that we would be significantly complete by October. completed with the project in December. So I I still feel we're in a good place. but that gives you a sense of of where we are with that. Bear with me as I look at the agenda some of the things that I was going to talk about. So the water usage trend I've been talking over the last couple of months in comparing the routes that we're billing and we're doing a comparison on what we've seen as water consumption back when we had the old meters installed. comparative to when the new meters are installed. and the first month was route one. we looked like we had about a 7% increase. Route two. which was in August. it looked about flat comparing 24 to 25 route five. that just went out. is a combination of commercial and residential looks like it may have actually decreased a bit. We were able to to get and compile these figures today. so we'll. we'll be taking a look at. you know. is there any particular things that occurred this year rather than last year? Are there. you know. commercial vacancies? Are there accounts that there's a reason why they would be lower. So we'll. we'll be taking a look at that. but it gives you a sense. It's not consistent. It's not. you know. we're seeing the same percentage increase each particular month. George Uveges: And we also have to keep in mind it depends on when those meters were swapped in exchange for the billing period. So for example. if your billing period was January to June on six months and you got a new meter installed in May. well. most of it billing water usage was from the old water meter. So that has an impact too. plus the the fact that we have the uh. Sprinkling band. which we had last year too. You know. we may have more compliance this year. Tom Holder: Who knows? Yeah. yeah. And. you know. as I've been providing these monthly update reports. you'll see each route how many meters are being replaced. you know. so it's not. it's not consistent. You know. the the installers are going from one route to the next as they progress through the program. So it's that also has an impact. And so it's not an apples to apples comparison. George Uveges: Yeah. we won't get a real read until we have a full billing cycle with the new meters. yep. Tom Holder: But I do understand. you know. we're trying to get a sense of. you know. because we were predicting. at least expecting. you know. a 6% increase overall. So just trying to get some affirmation that we can actually achieve that. but remains to be seen. George Uveges: Yeah. and what we may have to do as we take a look coming towards the end of the year. seeing how much of that we're actually getting. and an estimate of what we think will pick up from the going to semi annual Billings and the cash flow that we're going to need for debt service for the other debt and happy hollow. Do we need to look at a rate increase in January. I hope not. but it may be the only choice that we have. because we can't have more cash going out than we have cash in the bank.
Tom Holder: Yep. something to consider.
George Uveges: We'll make this real popular. but
Unknown: no Christmas parties for you.
George Uveges: Sorry. they just throw stuff at me. Anyways. the column headings when it says hold for Tom. what does that mean? Tom Holder: And I was hoping Don was able to stick with us for the remainder of the meeting. Was I think he had a better sense of that. I really. and I've worked with mass installation on on these columns and the figures that are actually in some some of them are actually populated. There's some redundancy on these things. but there really is no hold for town that would imply that we're holding them up that there's some things that we need to do that that is that's not the case. So I wouldn't. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that column. Okay. getting. getting back to. you know. Judy's question about the quarterly billing. you know. as you correctly stated. our target is January one. so that would be the. you know. the third quarter of this fiscal year. We've been working with staff. We've been working with Matt Abraham. trying to get an understanding of. you know. the revenue that would be expected as a result of making the transition to quarterly billing. some of the things that we need to contemplate and we have to work through in the coming months is. you know. selecting the particular routes that are going to be in each monthly bill. You know. we're going to likely have two routes within each month. So say. month of January would be routes one and five. February would be routes two and six. and then. you know. in March would be three and four. and then you would start again in April. one and five. So making those determinations. we also. when we set new rates. Munis has a proration capability whereby. you know. in July the bills go out. you know. 1/6 of the bill is the new rates. five. six is the old and then in the August bills. it's. you know. two. six are the new rates. and four. six of the old rates. that kind of a thing. So we have to work through that proration. We also have to figure in what we're calling a rate factor. We have to be mindful that if somebody the way that the semiannual billing went out. if they were to have a bill period that actually extended past the three months or the six months. that would cause them to be fall into a higher tier. you know. that wouldn't be acceptable. so we have to be mindful of that and and be able to implement. you know. what we're calling a rate factor. Obviously. the tier thresholds are going to be reduced in half. going from semiannual to quarterly. as well as the base charge. you know. would be. would be half. just like you do for commercial now. right? Exactly. commercial or quarterly. So it's so those things. So those are the. some of the considerations. all the things that we have to work out. But. you know. we've got. we got a couple of months to to work through it. That's why we're thinking January is a a. Solid target date. we should be able to get ourselves prepared and organized to have a relatively seamless transition. George Uveges: Yeah. the only. only feasible way you may be able to do it is after you issue the six month bill. then go to quarterly. Otherwise it may be too complicated for the user? Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah. Well. that's and that's why. and we got to obviously make certain that these considerations that I just listed out are. you know. how do I say implemented in munis. so that all of this. you know. is done correctly. George Uveges: Yep. it's the last thing we want is to implement this and then have a lot of billing errors. Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah. And. you know. obviously we're not the first. you know. municipal community to do this. There's a lot of experience out there. and so we're. you know. gathering that lesson. those lessons learned. George Uveges: Yep. Okay. Questions? Anybody? No. okay. Sherman bridge. Tom Holder: yeah. wanted to provide an update. I know we had a couple of folks you know under public comment voicing their concerns. Just gonna. you know. tonight. George Uveges: just. I think they're still on the line. She Tom Holder: they. they were patient enough. They stuck through beautiful Yeah. So I just. you know. a couple of talking points. just to give a kind of a broad overview of where we are with this. You know. we received bridge inspection reports for all the town bridges from MassDOT. Recent Sherman's bridge reports have indicated that the condition of the bridge is severe and that the repairs should be made a priority by the town mass.is now performing more frequent inspections due to the deteriorating condition of Sherman's bridge. as Joe had described earlier in the in the meeting. You know. town staff make frequent repairs to the bridge deck that involves the replacement of these these timber deck boards. as he explained. you know. these are special order. They're. you know. atypically sized. They're very large timber pieces. But. you know. we have the ability to get them. One of the primary issues that we're having right now is the fastening lag bolts which hold the deck boards in place. could no longer be anchored to the stringers underneath. They just. there's nothing left to bite. They've those boards have been replaced so many times. There are also a number of other required repair components that involve the in kind replacement of the wooden sidewalk that's there in place. the wooden rails that are. you know. included with the bridge edges. as well as repaired to a number of piles that are indicated in the most recent inspection report. the towns plural. Sudbury and Wayland have engaged the Engineering Corporation tech as well as capital strategic solutions To perform the design and public outreach activities to to assist with that. There was an intermunicipal agreement that that's been signed executed between Wayland and Sudbury. and that formalizes the shared project responsibilities. The one favorable item that we learned was that Mass DOT has offered to purchase the repair materials and perform much of the repair work within their contracted services arrangements that they have. The value of this is in the order of a million dollars. without which. you know. would be born by the respective towns the report. the proposed repairs are mindful to preserve. you know. the wooden historic appearance of much of the bridge. but the proposal does include Mass DOT recommended installation of an asphalt service. you know. to the bridge deck. And I. I know that's what folks have the most concern about. And so you know this will having an asphalt service. one of the one or two of the primary supporting factors of that is. is. in essence. it doubles the repair lifetime. and it provides for some conservation of entities that that we've learned from meeting with both the Conservation agents from Sudbury and Wayland. We have arranged because we understand that this is an important topic. and there are folks that are impassioned about this bridge. So we have arranged for a public forum that's scheduled for Wednesday. October 1. It'll be located at the Sudbury Community Center. whereby town officials and project engineers will provide an overview of the project and be able to hear public comments. So we're pleased to be able to do this. It's really a formal. Uh. opportunity for folks to appear. be heard. get their concerns played out. and we'll be able to answer questions and and have a much better understanding both sides us and the residents on. on. on what needs to be done there at the bridge. So I would encourage folks to to join us on October 1.
George Uveges: Okay. the comments about speeding across the bridge is that it is there a possibility of putting a speed bump in the beginning and end on each each side of the end. each end of the bridge. so that it slows people down. Tom Holder: So I mean. that has been a traffic. you know. kind of mitigation thought that we are not supportive of. We get periodic requests to install speed bumps. speed humps throughout town when folks are concerned about speed. and there are a number of logistical problems to equipment. to response times. to drainage aspects that cause us to we are not supportive of speed humps. but there are. you know. traffic mitigation ideas that could be implemented that would at least address that concern. George Uveges: When I used to travel to Europe. it was interesting. Their speed bumps. they they were. they could put out in the spring and take out for winter. and so it wasn't a problem with plows and those kinds of things that way. Tom Holder: Yeah. seeing that. yeah. I mean. I have. and we've actually in some communities that I've worked at. We've. we've tried them. and they've become problematic. the condition of them. that kind of they become. you know. pretty poor the condition of them and trying to manage and maintain and replace them. It's. it's. it's not that. George Uveges: not that practical. All right. so so much for my ideas and what I know. no. okay. where the Tom Holder: listening and hearing ideas is what this is all about? George Uveges: Yep. Okay. so that meeting is October 1. right? Yeah. Tom Holder: So I would encourage you know obviously residents that we've got a web page established Sudbury is actually hosting it on waylands. DEP W project page. Those you click on it. it brings you to the project web page. We have door hangers that are being distributed over the course of the next coming days. just advertising this forum. So we're doing as much as we can to advertise this and encourage participation. George Uveges: Good. Anybody have questions? Okay. slowly but surely. Tom Holder: what I would ask is that. you know. in the coming week. I'll pull the this board membership. because if we do have a quorum attending. I'll need to post it is a public meeting. Okay? Good thought. George Uveges: Transfer station.
Tom Holder: I'm going to defer to the DPW superintendent. You're up.
Joe Doucette: All right. Be easy. George. It's past my bedtime. You and me both. George Uveges: I'm drinking water so I so
everybody should add in their package the transfer statement. P L from last year. And I've asked. Tom. do you have the comparisons that are listed in the agenda. in the RFQ? So that's our items for this one. Tom Holder: So go for it. So Joe Doucette: it's pretty simplistic. It's just it. It showed what calendar date from the periods from six. 123. to 910. 23 listing in 2023 sticker sold. Was 1401. 2024 was 1504. George Uveges: I'm so we don't. we don't have this anywhere. Do we? Joe Doucette: This is information Anita provided to me today. George Uveges: Alright. so well. you talking about like is we thought we would have had. oh. I thought Joe Doucette: maybe that's what she had put in there. But. George Uveges: no. I don't think it went out. Got it. So what are we? We're having sticker sales. Joe Doucette: So these are full sticker sales. This does not include second stickers. trailers. etc. or replacements. These were just full sticker. Sales towed. Sold to. let's say residents. 2023 was. and this is to the date till September 10. just to give you an idea. George Uveges: So July one to September 10. June Joe Doucette: listed at six one. So Tom Holder: yeah. that's where we start. We start selling stickers for the next fiscal year on on June 1. that is correct. Joe Doucette: Okay. okay. so 1401 in 2023 1504 in 2024 and then this year we're 1264. ouch. Unknown: So it went up in 2020 it
Joe Doucette: actually went up in and now we're hit some reality. I think.
George Uveges: And what's. what's the price of a full price sticker. 200 so that's
Unknown: Roughly. what is it Joe Doucette: two. what is it 264.
Unknown: $52.000. $2.000.40
Joe Doucette: I see 48.000 but George Uveges: well. it's 1504 to 1264. right. Joe Doucette: correct. You're George Uveges: probably right. So
Joe Doucette: it's 240 stickers. Four 800 Yeah. 48.408
George Uveges: Yeah. 48.000 Joe Doucette: Yeah. 48 48.000 sorry.
George Uveges: and that should make life interesting. because. remember. we don't have a subsidy from the town this year. because the 50.000 that we got from them is for the consulting project.
Joe Doucette: We do. we do have the reserve fund. yep.
And we do. you know. obviously. I'm assuming you've talked with an either or what the value that is currently? It's $303.000 George Uveges: as of June 30. Yep. that was on the sheets he sent us. Yeah. Now. if we take a look at the results from last year. Our total revenue was the 554. 76 but in there. and I'm not sure the what the 75.000 transfer from the general fund. So that would be like I did this wrong.
So roughly about 475.000 of revenue. Our expenses were 513
so that's about a 40.000 hour loss. roughly. I'm doing this on the seat of my pants here. So. so that Joe Doucette: well she had for carryover budget of last year. going into this year. 44.400 deposit. That was in the positive. but that was included. like you said. the 75.000 included. George Uveges: yeah. I'm trying. because that's not reoccurring revenue. So if you take the 550 less than 75 is 475. 476.
Joe Doucette: and we did carry the George Uveges: encumbrances over too. Yep. that's. that's. that's an improvement. We. I appreciate that. And our expenses were 513 with the encumbrances.
and so we lost roughly $38.000
Unknown: what are tipping fees? What does that mean?
Joe Doucette: Go ahead. George. George Uveges: that's the cost to have it picked up and taken to the incinerator. right? Tom Holder: Those are just the disposal costs for both both recycling and trash. Okay?
George Uveges: So the problem is that if we lose the. The 48 I'm sure we've got some increase in expenses. We're gonna take a nice chunk out of the 300.000 because we'll be looking at a probably 80 to $100.000 loss. Joe Doucette: I think we'd be better obviously. looking at this after the first quarter ends. yeah. when we could sit down with you. or. you know. bring you in and sit down with Anita. and we'll go over the quarter quarter reports. George Uveges: And I think we should. every quarter present those to the board. because with the request for the consulting and the pressure we're going to get from the finance committee. Think it's important this board be informed about where we are as we go through
Joe Doucette: and just an update on the RFQ that that has been given to the changes you asked for have been included. and it's with the assistant town manager who's handling the procurement for that. So that's in her hands currently. Is that gone out for two people? It has not gone out yet. She's still editing it and just. you know. boiler plating the information. And I think we were going to discuss or have a committee formed or a group form to discuss that. once we have it. yep.
George Uveges: and you should make sure that there's somebody from the FinCom on that.
Tom Holder: Yeah. Do we want to talk a little bit about the membership. you know? And it's not on our agenda to vote or anything like that. But I just. I'm interested to hear. you know. obviously we can. you know. have associated staff be a part of it? Perhaps a member of the Board of Public Works. you're suggesting a member of the FinCom. I recall Klaus was relatively active at one point on this topic. whether or not there's a desire to have him. you know. on the selection committee. review committee. and then also if there's a kind of a body that is actually going to kind of work work through this with staff entirely up to but there's some. some thoughts anyway. because. you know. once. once this goes out. we're going to have a. you know. a deadline date of. probably. I know. three weeks to a month. George Uveges: Yeah. no. but I think. I think I would be asking. I think Klaus is a good idea. And I think somebody from FinCom. if they could appoint somebody. You may get some resistance there. and then somebody between Mr. Spellman and Judy from our board. and you know. somebody from your staff and Joe. probably five people.
Unknown: So what surprises me? You know. just. just as a balancing thing. I was talking to someone who was concerned about water rates going up. and I said. just as a ballpark figure. your average homeowner. we're probably looking at $400
in terms of the water rate increases. And I said. here's one way you can save about four to $500 is to stop using your trash pickup and use transfer station instead. And if you include the $200 a year cost to use black earth. which is part of your transfer station services. you would be saving even more money. And the answer I got back was. oh. but that's so much more. Like you complain about the amount of money that you don't want to be paying for clean water. but you you couldn't be bothered to take your old trash out. So. I mean. people wanted their cake and eat it too. So it's a little discouraging to me. yep. George Uveges: But you know. hopefully what will come out of this is somehow where we can tie the two in together. And. you know. there'll be things that the trash service won't take and I can understand I would. I have no desire to have to haul my trash down there on the Saturday when I'm out playing golf instead. But if there are things your trash company won't take. you know. putting something in so it works. so you could take it to the transfer station might be much more acceptable. because it's not like calling your uh rubbish. but yeah. you know. I think that's part of the change in the community in terms of what we were 30 years ago and what we are today. Mm.
Tom. does that answer your question? Is that Sure. between those two. somebody will volunteer? Oh. Mike's leaning forward. okay. thank you. Mike. absolutely. Unknown: I'll be there. Tell me when and where. Tom Holder: All right. well. I will. I will solicit participation from the other groups that you were referring to. and I can reach out to Klaus and see if that's something he'd be interested in joining. George Uveges: I think he's still on the audit committee. isn't he. I believe. So. yeah. so he could be their representative. because they're the ones that started this whole question. right? Okay. okay. so anything else on transfer station? Tom Holder: I think that's what we had planned. George Uveges: Okay. any board member concerns?
Unknown: None here. No.
George Uveges: all right. minutes. any changes to minutes?
Unknown: No. no.
George Uveges: Okay. the only thing that I had is on page four. It had under scope of work. under transfer station. You're going to follow up with Abby Shuto regarding a question of solar panels. Tom Holder: So it's really difficult to follow up with Abby chute. she left the town. but look. you know. but in knowing that. I heard back from Mike Faia. who was the facilities director. and they had solicited a proposal from Ty and bond to assist them with the evaluation of installing solar at the at the landfill. And apparently. that effort did not get a lot of traction. I'm not really sure how to how to characterize this. but there really hasn't been any further activity relative to investigating solar at the landfill. George Uveges: Okay. because I was thinking that also ties to Judy's comments about the solar at New happy hollow. Because if you can't get it there. you know may not be enough space and availability to make it worth somebody worthwhile to install
Unknown: geothermal. just to keep that in mind. especially with the new water treatment plant to lower operating costs. George Uveges: where would you get geothermal? Well. you're you Unknown: have to dig George Uveges: right? Well. yeah. but there has to be thermal underneath somewhere.
Unknown: I'm not the expert on it. but my understanding is that it's. it's readily available. I don't know Mike. Do you know
Mike? Do you know anything about geothermal? Kirsten Ryan: I know it's pretty much everywhere. Yeah. Unknown: it's. it's not. it's not rare. George Uveges: Could we do that as a transfer station? Do you think?
Tom Holder: Well. I think it's. I think it's generally used for. actually. the heating and cooling of a building. not so much if you're thinking about using it to run the compress. you know. the compactors and stuff. It's. it's just for climate control. really. you know. So there isn't a whole lot of that at the transfer station. Unknown: Okay. yeah. it sounds great. George Uveges: Use it for generating electricity. okay. well. something new. Talk to Kleinfelder and see how much money we have left in the budget. Because I'm sure. I don't think somebody is going to come out and pay for it and sell you the proceeds over and above their cost recovery. Tom Holder: I think. you know the way it works. I think the equipment. because I've. you know. don't have direct experience. but I've heard of others that you know. the the equipment that you would have within the building is pricey. but then you have to do kind of the the long term cost analysis to see whether or not the reduction in your heating costs. how long of a payback period that would be to offset the increased cost of the equipment so it's it's something we could certainly look at. yeah. George Uveges: including the debt service cost. Yeah. Okay. anything else on that?
Unknown: No. I. Yeah.
George Uveges: okay. In terms of the minutes. I'm sorry. not minutes. but the meeting dates. Tom Holder: Do you want to I'm sorry to interrupt George Uveges: a vote. yeah. yep. Can I get a thank you for keeping me out of trouble. which is a full time job in itself. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes. please So Judy seconded. Mike Spellman. seconds. roll call. vote. Judy aye. Mike Spellman. Aye aye. Ed aye. George I moved 400. I zero. okay. dates of the meetings. One of the questions that I asked is if we're going to have to add any meetings for the warrant article and the decision on the financing of the dual I'm sorry the new new debt. other than the dual sourcing. Do we think we're going to need to have another meeting between November 18 and December 16. Or can we wait on that? I'm just concerned that the warrant and everything else that goes with it is going to tie us up somewhat.
Tom Holder: I would. I would think. if you know. if we wanted to discuss this again at the October 21 meeting. I think that that. I don't think we'll have a better sense on what the the agenda load looks like for. you know. for the remaining meetings. and if we have to slip something in between. or if it's a joint meeting between Select Board and FinCom. like we've been doing. we could. we could slip something in? George Uveges: Yeah. I'm. I'm thinking that. and that's fine. I'm thinking we're going to have some significant discussion about the financing. and need to be tied in there before the war goes to press. Tom Holder: And that there's. you know. one other group that you've. you know. may or may not be following is that there has been a capital project committee formed. and they have begun meeting. and it's their mission to learn and vet capital projects and schedule them on a five year capital schedule. Yep. you know. So that'll be a stop that I'll be making talking about what we have planned and. you know. So I think that there
was response and some of their decisions will impact what our capital plan looks like. George Uveges: Yep. okay. and obviously they you need to bring them into the loop on the lead pipe discussion. correct. Okay. all right. so we'll leave it as is topics not reasonably anticipated. 48 hours ahead. Anybody have anything? Tom Holder: Staff have none? Unknown: None here. Nope. George Uveges: okay. Can I have a motion to adjourn. please? So move so Judy. moves. Ed. seconds. roll call. Vote Judy. yay. Mike. yes. Ed. Mike. yes. And George. yes. adjourn. Vote 400. thank you. And again. I apologize for the problems I had with the sharing the screen. Take care and I appreciate it. George. good night. Unknown: All right. Good night all.
Capital Improvement Planning Committee
9/9/2025 - Capital Improvement Planning Committee
Michael McCall: Good afternoon,
everyone. I'm Town Manager Mike
McCall, and we're going to be
calling to order our meeting
this afternoon, inaugural
meeting of our capital planning,
capital planning improvement
committee, which was approved by
our town meeting last spring and
ultimately approved by the
Attorney General's office today.
This is something that I know
some members of the Select Board
and others on staff have been
looking forward to having this
committee come together. We last
couple of years have had some
working groups relative to the
budget and looking at long term
capital planning, and this was
one of the desired outcomes of
that meeting as well. Under for
those of you who know, yes, sir,
Brian O'Herlihy: Before you get
too far now we're in an open
session. Should you be? Are you
the one at the moment that has
to read the statement and review
the agenda?
Michael McCall: It has been a
while since I chaired the
committee seated, but I
appreciate that. Let me I can
pull the right up here. It's
okay,
Kelly Lappin: Brian put that in
form of a question, but it was
really frustrating.
Michael McCall: Okay, this meeting today's meeting of the capital planning improvement committee is being held in person and hybrid pursuant to the the acts of 2025, chapter two and other statues. This meeting will be conducted via remote means, in accordance with approachable law. This meeting may be recorded, which may be available to the public on WayCAM As soon as practical after this meeting, when required by law or allowed by the chair or the person acting internally elected chair, persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so remotely by accessing the meeting remotely as known and above, we request public comment be limited to two persons per person, so that know if there's anybody wishes to provide public comment. Brian O'Herlihy: I'm sorry, did you say John is not able to participate? Michael McCall: I did send him the link, so I will go around and say who's in attendance. Well, Kelsi looks to anybody online Kelsi Power-Spirlet: I think it is actually himself. So, Michael McCall: John, awesome. Brian O'Herlihy: I assume John was there when we started.
Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Yep, and there's nobody else sweet. Michael McCall: So members of the committee that are in the room, Brian O'Herlihy, Kelly Lappin, Liz Lusky, I don't have Bradford Carver: Brad Carver the other , your name please. Michael McCall: Brad Carver, and online, we have John Kleim. There are ex officio members in the room, myself, Michael McCall, Town Manager, Brian Keveny our finance director is here. We're also accompanied by our assistant town manager, Kelsi Power-Spirlet and I do know in the audience we have Michael Fay, who's our Facilities director, and our Select Board Chair, Carol Martin, and there's anybody Brian O'Herlihy: is the is Michael an ex officio member as well? Carol Martin: Yes, Unknown: you are okay.
Michael McCall: Bye, yeah, so many of you probably know the Town Manager Act makes me responsible for the preparation of the operating budget and the capital budget in it's often the case in cities and towns. It's usually the town manager working with finance director to put it together in my last community that had been the case until we brought forward a similar proposal to create a capital planning, capital planning improvement committee. And so here my thought, in speaking with members of the Select Board and our working group last year, was to behoove us to have a group of dedicated volunteers from the community with different expertise to take a second look at the five year capital plan and help us put together the the capital plan for the upcoming fiscal year as to work as well as to work on the five year capital plan. But ultimately, the goals is to start looking at years from five up to 20, you know, in the background. So I like to think of it as being an air traffic control. You've got the immediate ones- that's year one, and the ones that are in close proximity, but you have to think about those ones that are way out starting to come in. I also felt that this committee could be help, be a gatekeeper for some of the many other capital related projects that come to our attention, that some of you know right now, a proposal came forward to the Town to look at potentially acquiring 14 West plain Street. And I thought this committee might be a good resource to weigh in on issues like that for the Select Board, so also provide some level of advisory opinion to me to share with the Select Board when, when issues like that come up, where we have opportunities that to to do a project or to acquire something that otherwise might be in a capital plan, but comes up on short notice. So I thought there's benefits to that as well. Unknown: And similarly, we have community preservation projects that come through that don't always get passed through my office, sometimes people come in and ask for money for projects that ultimately use staff resources to maintain and to contribute to. And I thought some of those that if they're going to involve either matching funds or resources from the town, might be something that I would look to this committee to to weigh in on as well. Like you know, we've had some folks that have wanted to make improvements, say on the Cochituate Ball Fields, and whether or not we that's a project that we should do, oftentimes we get a donation, or we get someone to ask for CPC money, but it's something that's then going to require maintenance oper and facilities to maintain our DPW. And is that something that we should bring into the fold, because it's competing with some of the projects that we already have in our current fiscal year plan, or a five year capital credit? So that was some of the thought process of all this, I know most of you submitted your paperwork to the respective boards for your appointments. I didn't know if you wanted to introduce yourself, because this is being televised and some people may not know who you are, and so that might be good if we just go around the room. Those of you who are volunteers, who've been appointed, just state your name why you're interested, and I can start with Liz, because she's right here. Elizabeth Lusky: Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Liz, Lusky, first time volunteering in Wayland, but have volunteered in other capacities in Massachusetts for a period of time prior to having kids. Some of my kids are a little bit older. Said out loud, I'm dating myself, but have a little bit more time and capacity to help out. So just looking to get engaged and involved in my community. So that's
Kelly Lappin: Kelly, opine, this is not my first foray into Town volunteering. I did six years in terms on finance committee, and was very involved in capital when it came to evaluating it with the finance committee in order to put together the budget that went to Town meeting. I have a background in finance, specifically I'm a pension actuary. So that's the area I hope to bring to the group. Bradford Carver: Brad Carver, been a Wayland resident since 1993 I've been involved in a couple different town boards or commissions. I was talking to Brian before about when the public safety building had some issues. I got involved. Then I got involved on the early stages of the high school trying to decide whether to build a new high school or tear down the existing one. I'm currently on the Historical Commission, and my background is law. I'm a litigation attorney that concentrates in construction. So thank you. Brian O'Herlihy: Brian O'Herlihy, I'm a 42 year resident of Wayland, retired. I volunteered in town now 25 years and I'm the school committee's designee, and hopefully Kelly and I, we both served on the finance committee together for a couple years, and I think she understated the value she brought to the capital review, and she also forgot to mention, she was chair Kelly Lappin: I am the Finance Committee designee Brian O'Herlihy: I think you also served on the working group that led to this committee. So anyway, hopefully the two of us can bring some institutional knowledge for the other three members. So thank you. Michael McCall: John online, John Kliem: yes, good afternoon. Well, my name is John Kleim. I apologize. I have the flu today, so I'm not there with you. I. I this is my first time serving on a committee. I've been in town for about nine years now, and similar, my kids are at a reasonable age to participate more. well, they have lots of sports. It was a good time to get involved the Capital Planning Committee aligns nicely what I've done at my prior roles at Fortune 500 companies, doing capital long term planning. So it seemed like a exciting time to get involved and help out where I can.
Unknown: Thank you. And in addition, as town manager, I want to be involved, and I'm one of the ex officio members. Michael, you just let people know what your title is and what you're doing. Michael Faia: Director of Buildings and Facilities for the town of Wayland. I'm fairly new. I was on the original committee to put this committee together, and I bring years of construction and facilities knowledge to the table. So hopefully that will help Kelsi Power-Spirlet: I'm Kelsi Powers-Spirlet. I'm the assistant town manager. And traditionally, the assisting and managing the capital budget has fallen under the assistant town manager. So I hope that some of my knowledge, although I've been in the position for about a year now, I can hope to help to support this committee with background information and administrative support and logistic support. Brian Keveny: So I'm Brian Keveny. I've been in finance director for 13 years, CPA, 56 year resident of Arlington. I should try to get on the capital planning committee in Arlington. And my wife wouldn't let me. because I mean Wayland Town so she says, when I retire, I can join their capital planning committee. Unknown: So there are other two, according to our charge, two other ex officio members, the schools finance director and operational director, as well as the Director of Public Works, who couldn't be here today, but I think some of these people will come from time to time. Hopefully we can get as many people as possible as we future. The next thing on the agenda was just to review the charge and the Capital Improvement Planning committee's charge is that they are responsible for the planning and subsequently recommending to the town manager a capital improvement programming, program, identifying the town's future capital projects, programs, improvements and acquisitions having a useful life greater than five years and it cost at least $25,000 the committee shall study current and long term proposed capital projects and improvements involving non recurring tangible projects and assets. Committee is also charged with developing a long range capital plan of at least five years. And the committee shall prepare annually a capital plan, recommending a capital improvement budget for the next fiscal year. Questions, comments, concerns about that. Elizabeth Lusky: Clarifying question, yes, I know earlier you had mentioned we'll be reviewing, writing suggestions, weighing in, and the charter says developing so is it? Was it really just assessing a list that we pulled together and asking questions to kind of rack and stack or so? Unknown: I think we're supposed to discuss a little about that in item 6, 7 but to your point, there's essentially a queue that's been going the projects get in and they slide over, generally, what's in the five year capital plan slides over in, the ones at the front of the queue getting to that one year capital plan. But from time to time, you do have things that emergencies may come up, may want to shift that generally, the procedure here is not to try and change the order, so to evaluate the ones that are going to get to the queue, if there has to be any reordering, to make recommendations. So the way code and Town Manager Act is written, I still make recommendations, and the Finance Committee ultimately votes on the recommendations that I make. But the last couple of years before I've been here, and I think the years leading up, and a lot of the actual preparation, the budget and the capital plan, comes really from the finance director and the person sitting in my office, and then the Finance Committee weighs in on it, makes recommendations based on what we've proposed. That's how it's been working to date. So we wanted Brian and I, the finance director, had talked about having this additional group that could be focused on looking at that five year capital plan. But of, in each year department heads submit new capital requests, where they would fit? Would they go at the end of the queue? Would any of them slot in elsewhere? Again, a different priority? So that's where this the value of this committee would need to be that board making those recommendations that we would hopefully incorporate right into our proposal that we then submit to the Select Board and finance committee. So any other questions? So moving not as good as the chair. No, I'm Brian Keveny: so Michael, So to be a little clearer on the question, so you may or may not have seen the Excel file that was sent out, but that's what I've been building for the last six, seven years around that time frame. The past four years of already approved capital items, that have already been submitted by departments, and they went through a review process and they made it into the plan. Right now it doesn't have the fifth year. So what typically is going to happen is that there's going to be requests given out to department heads to submit their fifth year and give us their five year capital plan. It should be, what's already in the plan. We take those two documents and we just basically true up the five year program. So my reason, is this group is going to decide the fifth year and maybe more, because the Town really lacks. five years is very small, and it really needs to extend more than probably 10 years. Is that the code that's 10, 5 years is that the charge five? And we have 5, but in the long range capital working group we talked about that, we really started, we need to start looking at years 5 through 20, right? So it probably would be a good idea to do the five year and really do a 10 year, because what we're looking at on the town side is the real possibility, or the reality that the town is going to have to do many years of override votes to balance the budget. In a key piece of the forecast, that we use, is the capital that's in this plan that we've already ran debt service, and it's already mapped into our forecast, so four years of the debt service that's in that plan that was sent to you today, is already in our forecast, and we're projecting that, that will be used to project out our for-forecast lead. And Brian has been participating in that group too. So I said along the really, really important that the town nails down a real solid five year plan and 10 because we need to know the cost of the debt service in projecting overrides. Now you have a plan that already has four years. I would suggest go through it and get an idea of- it's an Excel file that came from only seven years ago when I did this, I looked at a whole bunch of different towns and what Excel files they use, and I kind of like Wakefield had this one, Wilmington, to me, it worked good. So this, this format is what we've used in the last seven years. So you can either continue this format or come up with another format, and we'll get into revenues and stuff later. But when you take a look at the file, you'll see, it's already projects out what projects we're going to do and when and how we're going to pay for it. And as you get to the next year, things change, because when these departments come in, they're going to say, you know, the product that I wanted in 2000 next year, a half a million. I don't want anymore, but I want this $2 million dollar one. And what happens is it wreaks havoc on our forecast. So we can't, can't continue . Or we we have to discourage people coming in with catastrophic changes to the plan, the plan is not set in stone, but it's pretty much set in stone. You don't want to deviate from it, because what happens year after years. And you'll see when we go through it, when we ask the departments for their capital, and it's very soon, it's September, we usually ask in October to submit the capital. Michael will send out a guideline. Just submit the capital. What happens is they'll submit a CIP form for what's what they want for next year, and that should be within the plant, and then they're going to give an Excel file what they want to do over the next five years. We may ask them to do 10 years. That's probably what I would recommend, really, to do 10 years. But they're going to submit this stuff, and you'll see that they'll be asking for things that they, they didn't ask for -for the very first time. And for like, for example, there's discussions about a building down the street, what Street is it Carol? Carol Martin: West Point, Brian Keveny: West plain. Okay, that's so it's around $1.5 million. That's not even in the plan, and if they wanted to do it next year. That. And that's 1.5 million. That would be, you know, usually it's with principal and interest. It's like 10%. so that's, that's $150,000 that we haven't even accounted for. So you'll see the importance of, you know, being firm with discouraging changes, because it has a ripple effect on everything. So I think the fifth year is going to be done. and that's the easiest year, as you'll see. The other the other years, they have funding sources. They have the products, and probably good idea to bring in the departments and and go through them with the committee and explain what they want to do over the next five years to get an idea of how it all works, because the capital plan ties to the forecast, and we need to have a forecast so we can go to the residents and say, we need an override of or not, and how much is the override? So it's it's critical that we have that basis. Kelly Lappin: So I have a slightly different opinion than Brian. I do agree adding the fifth years as a piece of what needs to be done, but scrutiny over the first four years is also necessary, because of. if we don't have the scrutiny over the first four years up front, when these changes come in, it becomes chaos to figure out, well, why is the thing that you're coming with now more important than the thing that you asked for for this this coming year, a year ago? Did priorities really change that much? And sometimes, yes, sometimes it's sorry- the boiler broke at the Middle School, and that has to that has to move ahead. But that's not always the case, and so having that scrutiny over at least the first time around, when we, when we look at those first five years, why are they in that year? Are they in that year because they're absolutely necessary that year. Are they in that year because that's when we had room in, you know, debt is that what? Getting that scrutiny over that so that we can do a better job as the changes come of deciding, Yeah, that one's gotta flip with this other one or not has to happen as well. So it's adding the fifth year, but it's it's getting really, really down in the dirt on, why those first four years are what they are, and whether or not there's any flexibility in what those, what the things that would need to be flexible should be, because we've had, every single year, we have a combination of things that come up. that are gotta do it at the boiler. And we have things that come up of. like, I really like this idea, let's, let's do this, right. Or things like might be like the West Plain, it's an opportunity to some, right? It's not going to come up, it gets sold, it's not going to come up again, evaluate it and figure out what to do with it. So I think it's both adding and the scrutiny. And then I agree with Michael, equally important is knowing what the horizon looks like, because I think a lot of our issues have come from not having good visibility beyond what's in the immediate landing zone. So Unknown: since we skip ahead item number seven, we can come back to this. I would really like to go back to item number five so that someone else could referee, and that would be to pick officers. Here we discussed. It's listed as picking a Chair and Vice Chair. Mr. O'Herlihy, he has graciously offered to do minutes, probably so he could get out of being the chair. Brian O'Herlihy: Not true. Michael McCall: So thankless job? Yeah, they're all really jobs. So I guess I would open the floor for nominations for a chair. See who would like to be chair of the capital planning committee Elizabeth Lusky: I'm gonna ask some more questions. What is the responsibility of the chair versus the Vice Chair? Just so we know what we're signing up for. Unknown: So I'm chairing various committees, typically the chairs, the person who's going to put together the agenda, pick the meeting dates, ensure that it's published, and then actually run, facilitate the meeting. And we'll probably be the spokesperson. if there's going to be correspondence between this committee and the board the public or the Select Board my office, they would be most likely person, unless otherwise designated, to an individual member, to be signing anything, you know, a Memorandum of sorts, Vice Chair, typically in most boards is the person who seconds votes, but also is there to fill in for the chair. The chair is not able to fulfill their duties if they're absent that day, usually the vice chair will sit in run the meeting, but oftentimes, you know. On my experience on most boards chair ask for a motion. Usually the vice chair is the person often seconds it for purposes of discussion, unless there's somebody on the committee who's actually advocating for a particular motion they want to second motion.
Elizabeth Lusky: Okay, I don't think I'm the best person for the chair, since this is my first, first bite at the apple, but certainly I could support as the vice chair that helped us at all.
Unknown: Yeah, I feel a little uncomfortable. The committee is fascinating. It's going to be interesting. But for me, with my background. I 'd think for me a very large learning curve, and I'm not sure it makes me feel comfortable leading discussions about topics that I'm not completely conversant in. That makes sense and the field is narrowing. It's someone's face going Brian Keveny: until we go run broad paper scissors. Unknown: John, you have any thoughts for a chair? I mean somewhere John Kliem: that went out, I've never done it before, so we're willing to bear with it. Or why not? Unknown: I'll I just, I just finished up on the Finance Committee, and I was Vice Chair, and I was probably doing more of the chair duties than the chair was doing. Chair was running the meetings, but I was doing the rest of the agenda setting, dates and all of that stuff. And that's a lot of work, particularly for anybody that works, and so it was helpful for our chair to have me being willing to do that. So happens, I also kept the minutes, so it was an extra load. So I'm not overly anxious to sort of put that same load on myself. Brian O'Herlihy: Again, logic would suggest that Kelly has, you know, the most experience of all of us vis a vis the capital in the background, and worked on the working group. I'm also sympathetic the fact that Kelly works, and it is a lot of work, and as I look forward another lot of times, the vice chair will be kind of a hopefully chair and waiting and so you know whether there's some basis on which one of the three Select Board appointees could carry some of the extra load that would normally go with the chair, with some support, perhaps from me, quick flip, Kelly and she kind of knows stuff and where to direct us, if she was willing, kind of take the helm, at least for this year, and then hopefully a year from now, whoever was vice chair will feel comfortable and conversant that they would be willing to take it on unless Kelly is still here after a one year term runs out. But I mean, I think the only two people fairly could probably do it in a new committee like this would be Kelly or myself, and Kelly, you're showing your opportunity to wiggle out of it. Michael McCall: Was that a nomination in there. Unknown: I'm happy to nominate Kelly, but only after she acknowledges that she reluctantly would accept the nomination, could I make a suggestion, and you have, perhaps even for six months. You don't want to do a full term. Do co chairs, so other committees have done it to help the burden. Kelly Lappin: Yeah, one person isn't responsible for that. I don't know. I don't know. I have sometimes I think co chair makes it even harder. Yeah, for the coordination. But my issue, and Brian suspects it knows it right as I work far more than full time, and so some of the logistics stuff has to get done right on a schedule for to meet the deadline to get the agenda set. So I do get a little concerned about being able to do that, timely. I'm willing. I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I am willing to chair with support, right? So if somebody is willing to vice chair and help share that some of that logistical burden, right? I'm more than happy to help guide the discussion and lead the meetings. And I can, you know, I can do some of getting stuff in, but I also have to make sure my job gets done as well. So I can do that. I have a one year term. I don't necessarily anticipate continuing beyond that year. So if it would be important that whoever's vice chair is considering, you know, stepping into the chair role, hopefully a year later. So I'm willing to do it for a year, but Unknown: so that's how I nominate Kelly Lapin is chair, and is there a second for that? Bradford Carver: second. So general
Michael McCall: I nominated, Brad seconded. Brian O'Herlihy: For purpose of discussion, while I think hopefully one of the other three will voice an interest in being Vice Chair, even if hopefully someone does, I'm I'm also happy, if need be assist with the agenda logistics, just because I've just gone through that for a year and but I also think whoever's vice chair is probably good training to kind of go through that process. It's not it's really not that difficult, but if you're working full time and there are time deadlines, it's important that stuff's getting done. So, you know, looking at the other three, if I may, go make a motion for Vice Chair. Unknown: The motion has been seconded is there any discussion on that first? Anybody else want to weigh in on the discussion about the nomination for Kelly Lappin to be chair, Seeing and hearing none. I'll do a roll call vote. Liz, Elizabeth Lusky: yes. Unknown: Brad Bradford Carver: yes. Unknown: Brian, Brian O'Herlihy: yes. Unknown: June, John, John, I'm sorry. John Kliem: yes Unknown: And Kelly, Kelly Lappin: yeah. Brian O'Herlihy: Thank you Kelly. Michael McCall: Unanimous. John Kliem: Thank you Kelly. Unknown: I will make a motion for vice chair and the other three. I think Michael McCall: so. Technically, she's in charge of the meeting. Brian O'Herlihy: Oh Okay
Kelly Lappin: Yes, recognizing Carol Martin from boards last night. Carol Martin: Thank you. Unknown: Like, well, Carol Martin: member the Select Board, but we have done that share as their share is a really given. You know, more of some duties the Vice Chair, because I think it's, it's a waste. So, of course, it would be better for the whole year, and then they come in and so more involvement in the development of the agendas and other things so Kelly Lappin: Understood. Thank you, Carol. All right, so then, I why don't we open up discussion on Vice Chair? Any Unknown: Yeah, I would normally say of the other three of you that a point have an actual interest, and you should speak up and asking anybody speaking up. I would just note that I think of the three of you, Brad, you're the only one that's actually have volunteer experience in town. I think there's some value to that in terms of Open Meeting Law and process and seeing how meetings are run. And I think you're retired, so not to say you don't have lots of other things going so unless the other two, you know, really have desire to do it, I'd be inclined to nominate Brad. But again, I don't want to do that if someone else has a real interest in or you really don't want to take that on. No, thank you. I don't, I don't initially mind throwing my hat in the ring on it, you know, unless Liz or John have an interest, I know you guys have, I think, more direct experience with finance, with planning than I do, but, but I'm, I'm certainly willing to to learn to do it.
I'm here for three years, so I'm okay this year, I'll just observed and absorbed like a sponge. And you know, if this is coming up again in a year, then there's another opportunity to have that discussion. Kelly Lappin: So John thoughts, John Kliem: agree, yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't know it well enough to be that effective in the first year, but we can support and share the workload however possible, so
Unknown: I'll move it. We nominate Brad Carver as the vice chair. We have a second? Elizabeth Lusky: second Unknown: second from Liz. Go by Liz alright discussion on Brad as vice chair, seeing none to a roll call vote. We start with John, John Kliem: yeah.
Kelly Lappin: Brian, Brian O'Herlihy: yes Kelly Lappin: Liz Elizabeth Lusky: Yes. Kelly Lappin: Brad, Bradford Carver: yes.
Kelly Lappin: Kelly, yes. Brian O'Herlihy: Thank you, Brad. Unknown: Thank you, Brad.
Kelly Lappin: Okay, and I apologize, but I can't get into the agenda right now. So kind of hard to chair the meeting, but let me try. Unknown: after the officers, Kelly Lappin: perfect Unknown: item number six was the discussion of timelines and reporting to the town manager and for Town meeting warrants. So I guess that's something that Brian and I can talk about a little bit given the discussions we have our budget working meeting tomorrow. There's some members of the Finance Committee, Mr. O'Herlihy. He's on we've been talking about some strategies to the board of selectmen, or the Select Board, I should say, relative to trying to avoid an operating overridem in 2027 despite our best efforts, the numbers aren't breaking in our favor. So it may be more likely than not , that we wind up asking as a working group for an override to the board of selectmen. That being the case, I think I'm going to send out my budget letter a little earlier, Brian Keveny and I didn't get to meet today, but I was thinking that I may try and get it out in the next week or so, asking the department heads to submit their budgets as well as their CIP requests, so that we have a better handle on any potential ask that we have to make to the Select Board, but I will leave it to Brian to ask typically, when he needs the five year plan and the actual capital plan for the fiscal year, FY27 based on your timeline, where would you typically work as community to make a recommendation to the two of us. Well, I would probably just do a budget guideline for the capital first. joint one. I think the, where are we September 9? I would say maybe, if we get it out in a week, the guideline on the capital, maybe by October 15, they submit the information, and I think then we line up, then they come in and present to the committee what they want to do. And then I think they really have up until, this committee would have up a long window of time to do this Brian O'Herlihy: early December. Brian Keveny: That's too early. I mean, I would probably give the committee until when they have to, they have to come up with a five year plan. What they do is not going to affect fiscal 27 that's that was done a year ago, the debt service. It's really going to affect 28,29,30 I would think if they, if they come up with a five year, you know, add the fifth year and true up, and then the first four. I'm almost trying to give it maybe the end of January, finish that and do a presentation of that. And then, to you, it goes to you first, right? And then, and then Kelly Lappin: it goes, you gotta work backwards, right? When does FinCom need it? Michael McCall: Yeah, and get something Unknown: isn't going to change it. I mean, it's, it's going to come, probably complete. I think December is too early. You should give the something to the Select Board, the FinCom right around the end of the year, well before we used to do the capital until in February and March, and like 12 years ago, we moved into the fall, just to get the capital off the plate. Uh, FinCom and everybody, before you get into jerry and they switch to the budget. They're not dealing with the operating budget. So I think another month is worthy of Kelly Lappin: Brian. Unknown: I believe the bylaw requires that we complete our work. I'm not saying that's realistic for this year, but we were required to clear work and provide a recommendation by October 15, correct. Carol Martin: I think its Oct Brian Unknown: what it says on the bio. And so this year, obviously that's not going to happen. But the reason I'm raising that is for what you're saying, Brian, looking forward, a year from now, you won't be able to, you know, follow your normal sort of timing that used to follow to get the FinCom something in, you know, late December, early January. This group's, you know, and arguably, this group will have been meeting throughout the- am correct? Carol Martin: sorry, I'm just going to Brian here, because he's looking for 60 at 16. Unknown: So this group will have been meeting, you know, throughout the year, versus the Finance Committee, who traditionally works with capital budget for a month six weeks press time. So a year from now. Presumably there, there'd be more planning that have been done versus right now, will be kind of a sprint, to have at least three of the five of us get up to speed on the first four years of the plan and then try to figure out what belongs in the fifth year of the plan. But that's still going to require a sprint and and so, you know, I just want to make clear that whatever we do this year shouldn't become precedent, because we won't be able to comply with by law, and it's going to be very different next year to meet that deadline in terms what department heads are asked to and when, because it sounds like you're going to have to probably push that, you know, until just after the fiscal year ends, to be able to start accumulating the information in time to have this group at least have a month. Elizabeth Lusky: So a couple of clarifying questions, when is our fiscal calendar, or When's our fiscal year beginning in July, one to June 30. Okay? And so that point, I would think, yeah, the budget request the departments we're saying are going to go out, typically October ish, maybe or September this year. We would essentially bring that in. roughly what is the cycle for when we would have, or what we would have to review, you know, the list and come up with, you know, we'll say year five, and then out years beyond that, real time. So we might not have Andrews Unknown: committee might need, you know, I did it, because I'm working here all day. I can get what department heads and do it. But if you're coming in, in meeting for two hours. I mean, you probably need two months. I think this this year is an anomaly, because of this October 15 date. Once you finally get a budget up and running, you can meet year round. And you know, this can really be started next July to meet that October 15 date. This October 15 date is like tomorrow, yeah. And so there's no way you're going to hit that. So I think you need at least two months to meet with all the department heads understand the revenue constraints fit into a five year plan. There are going to be changes. They're going to come in with some new stuff. And no, "I gotta have it next year." Particularly the school, you know, they're famous for that. And I think, I think for this year, I forgot about this. I think this year we really got to give them until Thanksgiving. Even if you meet every single week, I would suspect you're going to meet every two weeks. You know, in a cycle, maybe, I guess. I think once you go to a one time, you'll, you'll catch up the second time and the third time, yeah, that's right. In reality, if a five year plan is actually working, all you really don't bring in the last year, the out here and trueing things up. So I think once you give, I would give at least Thanksgiving. At least Thanksgiving. John Kliem: Is there any benefit to asking them for any more immediate requests in a shorter timeline and giving them more time on the five year, just to make sure there's no surprises? Because it seems like waiting that much time for a full five year, but they already know in the next two, three years, they have a change. I assume they would know that now versus a longer term plan, right? So is there a benefit in breaking that up so we can kind of work through it, instead of waiting for the entire thing to come to us to have to kind of then work through it? Unknown: I don't, I don't think, I don't think I heard. meaning if, if we know there's changes to the one year, right? Which I would imagine most of the departments know right now, what they are thinking about might need to be changed for the one year, right, getting that as early as possible. But you're, I mean, right now, what Brian outlined was they're going to send out budget guidelines a week, roughly a week from now, right? Request the departments are going to get back by October 15, is that what I heard you say? before we reveal this, but that's, that's not even, right? That's not even a month for them to turn around stuff. So they don't know that you're going to get it too much faster than that, right? Brian Keveny: I think we asked them to submit by the I think it's enough time, because, Unknown: right? They are not going to get it faster. You're not, you're not going to be able to get it pulled in a whole lot faster than that, even if we had time to break it up, right? Do one year, and then do the remaining four, it's not going to get done that much faster than October 15, and then we still need to balance it, yeah, them submitting their request, and then we still need to evaluate it. Brian Keveny: So we have to build a 50, you know, Kelly Lappin: yeah, right. But I think there's plenty for us to do, given this the first year, there's plenty for us to do, just getting acclimated. To what's existing in the plan, so that when that information comes into the departments, we're ready to go with it. I don't know that we're gonna be able to do it much faster than October 15, given the time constraint we have right now. So I don't know how that works in terms of complying with by law that isn't really feasible to comply with, but I wouldn't see us being able to turn anything around without at least a month right to turn it around from the time that the departments come into office, Brian Keveny: I think a month is pretty, pretty fast to turn it Kelly Lappin: around. Yeah, right. Great. Yeah. In my in my head, I thought December 15, because I was stuck on the old the budget. Unknown: I mean, I think for this first year, you gotta give you guys enough time to just get this, this first year done, and then get caught up on the bylaw the next year. I think what we did last year for the Finance Committee, where a lot of this activity took place, since we had three new members. was we started in September looking at the four years of the previous five year plan. Kelly's point -so that when information started coming in all we had to focus on and answering questions quickly for the new members of kind of, what are these things? Why are they there? As Kelly said earlier, getting down weeds. So then when the request came in, we then hopefully focus on any proposed changes to those first four years. And then the last thing we were doing is focusing on the fifth year that was getting added in. And so, okay, hopefully there won't be significant variations over what was in the next four years, but three days committee, it wasn't a year that there weren't a number of things moving around, and then there's unknown things out there that we only know when the requests come in. Brian O'Herlihy: So I think Kelly, if, if we would committee, could commit to meet at least a couple times if you're going to have to obviously review this stuff on their own, it's always good thing that people. it's daunting to look at Brian's spreadsheets when they show up, because there's many, many tabs and there's lots of detail. And obviously it'll be easier for Kelly and I, because we live with that document. But for the rest of you, your eyes are in a glaze over, and so you're going to have to commit find time outside the meeting to review at least the relevant parts of it. When you then come to the meeting, we can respond to questions that members have and be waiting for whatever that date is, October 15, or the following week or two, for the changes. And then that's what we laser focus on. As John suggesting may not be a bad idea to least in the request, see if it's possible to get the responders to ship in year one, fiscal 27 in two weeks, with the rest to follow by October 15, something like that, is because that'll flush out any real, near term surprises that but. Unknown: that seems reasonable to me. I mean, ultimately, if Brian's going to issue the ,well, you're going to issue the guide, are you going to issue the guideline Michael to the departments that would be the request. is that they have four weeks to respond if they could focus on your one first and that in within a couple weeks, and then follow up with the rest. We'd appreciate it. for the rest of the committee, I think, I recommendation on homework right for the committee number one, pull up the warrant. There's copies of it, probablyprobably out in the front hall, if you like printed or if you like printed, or you can pull it up on the town's website and read the finance report and the capital section, sort of that section cover to cover, because that's going to give you the same presentation that went to town residents, right? And summaries of what the of what the capital plan was, what the request for year one, this, this current fiscal year, were, so I think that's a good place to start. The next place will be reviewing the spreadsheet. Kelly Lappin: There's actually Brian's spreadsheet, and I have my own spreadsheet as well. I want to give a look and make sure it's what, what finally, since I wasn't on FinCom anymore, if it's where they finally landed. But I'll pull a few things out of there for a little bit more detailed look. Those would be sort of the three pieces of homework I would spend time on, between now and our next meeting, to get yourself acclimated, and then hopefully we can get some information on on what the year one changes are, so we can start evaluating that, evaluating that. Unknown: So quick follow up question to save me stuff I did, start reviewing the Excel spreadsheet that was sent out. So presumably, that's your file, Brian. But so when there's like, big binary changes, I think was like the water department out in year 2030, or something, as a big spike, it like jumps, if I wanted to, you know, understand what was the driver behind that change. Would the warrant be the best place to go in those out years, or the details wouldn't be in there, probably where Tom Holder meets with you. He can explain right there. Jump. I mean, they're moving to the MWRA. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of construction, right there needs to be, believe, the existing system, new water tank, water mains, yeah. Elizabeth Lusky: And, I mean, I'm just, it's one of those where I'm like, okay, you know, obviously something's happening, and it was approved previously, so it's probably good things there. But just trying to educate myself Brian O'Herlihy: on, there is a, there is five years worth of detail, CIP information and spreadsheet that is, think it's on the website, on the FinCom web page. Kelly Lappin: It is. It's in the spreadsheet that I mentioned that I'm Brian O'Herlihy: looking at a number you can then go look at this spreadsheet. Maybe that's what you're going to circulate. Unknown: Yeah, that's what I envision circulating. But I would also say, sort of, to those of you are new, first, I would lay out all your questions, and I would guess, and I want to avoid open meeting law violations here, so not sending it out to the whole group to answer questions back and forth via email. But certainly we can all have our questions ready for the next meeting and in between, like as long as you stick to just one of us, right? I'm happy since I have probably the capital plan in ingrained inside of my eyelids. You can just give me a call and I'll I can talk you through the big stuff, like the water, what's going on with water, and then we can develop the detailed questions to bring tom Tom Holder in. But like the main story there is, connecting to the MWRA is what's causing that expect. I just reiterate, John, this is important. When emails go out, they have to be very limited in in members sending them out, and no members should be responding to an email that includes other a quorum of the rest of the members. So when in doubt just don't respond, or if really now you could just direct your question to the chair, but you have to be careful, because sometimes Brian will send out an email, or I might send out the draft minutes ahead of the meeting, which you're allowed to do, and ask you to review them so they come to the meeting and provide any edits at the meeting. Sometimes people will just hit Reply All instinctively or not knowing they've done it, and you just have to be careful. Brian O'Herlihy: So typically, I've gotten the habit, if I had send like the minutes out, Kelly sent an email out today in the same sentence as at the bottom of it, please do not reply all this email so that we don't have a technical violation. So you probably hear me from time to time raising these Open Meeting Law questions just because we really need to comply. Want to comply. And for those of you that haven't volunteered before. It's just a little bit cumbersome, because you want to ask your questions and be prepared. But unfortunately, Open Meeting Law is such that you're kind of confined as to exactly how and when you could do some of that. So that's my day one advertisement. Unknown: The other way, I tend to wait to deal with this so that we avoid that it's to BCC everybody, so that just put an email who it went to. But when you BCC that way, they can't hit Reply All by accident or instinctually have it go to everybody. Okay, I think we have a decent handle on timeline that's going to probably float. But I would also ask, I understand what the bylaw says and where we're shooting for in the future. But Michael, I think we need from you, right? The working back working by law says October 15, and if that's fine and good, and you know, you don't need anything before then going forward, we're good, but I just want to make sure you've got time right, because ultimately, we're making a recommendation to you, and then you're going to FinCom Correct?
Okay, Michael McCall: I will work with Brian Kelly Lappin: okay, Brian O'Herlihy: it wouldn't be bad for the record. I think my recollection is this issue came up because of the delay. We have to wait for the Attorney General to prove the bylaw that it was going to be unlikely that we could meet that deadline in the first year. It wouldn't be bad if you could send an email to the Chair saying, I understand that the bylaw requires you to have something to me by October 15. But given where we are this year, as long as you can accommodate me by doing such and such and then obviously next year, hope it won't be an issue. This will be two months, you know, starting two months earlier. Okay, so Okay, any more by large question, Kelly, either you or the town manager or attendee in the audience might know so in the by law itself, there's several references to different places, capital projects and capital improvements, and they're not, they're not consistently used in all places. And the one place that I believe was put in the bylaws as a way to control last minute requests. Unknown: Maybe one of the reasons is that no request for capital improvement appropriation shall be voted on a town meeting without it first having been reviewed by capital planning committee, and it uses capital improvement appropriation doesn't reference capital project appropriation. So my question was, Do either of you recall, in the discussion or debate on bylaw language, you know, use the building that you referenced earlier as an example? I, as an accountant, CPA, I wouldn't view it, if you acquire an existing building. I wouldn't view that as a capital improvement. If we buy raw land in some of this, we want to build that building on the raw land, building would be a capital improvement. Raw land would be a capital project. Mind you. CPA, view of it, but I don't, I don't want to draw that distinction. That's not one that scrutiny. Yeah. Case here, um, so because we were borrowing and editing on the fly, we had a good group of people, and we would make edits, and people might not have Yeah, said, Oh, you we serve in here, and somebody say a capital project, and probably didn't catch Kelly Lappin: we debated a lot of words. I don't remember us debating that different. Unknown: So in that context, then, just so we're clear, you did address the possibility of Michael to in addition to town and school capital projects, improvements that there might be, I don't know if you suggested maybe all situations, or there might be some situations where CPA projects might fall within the purview of this committee, such that they couldn't go to town meeting, without going we don't need an answer today, just I think we need to think about it. Brian O'Herlihy: Same with the enterprise funds, the Water Enterprise Fund, the Wastewater Enterprise fund. So for example, the $38 million long term water project that will be coming to town meeting in the spring. Does that need to be reviewed at this committee? And this committee needs to know it says we have to approve it or just review it, but it's been considered by this committee. Does that need to come a project like this, that it's an enterprise fund project, does that have to come before this committee? So I just need, I want to be sure that we're sure what what our authority is or isn't, what our responsibility is or isn't. Because probably those two projects, one for sure, is coming to town meeting and wouldn't typically be in the capital plan, it probably come forward as a separate article. And I don't know about the building discussion, Unknown: we can always get clarification Town Counsel, but I know one of the other things we thought about was, if an individual petitioner or a board of committee before their own article, that would be another way to catch it so that it didn't go before Town meeting without some type of review. So if somebody put something in the capital plan, our normal process, let's say I recall the intent being we may not be able right, but it may not prevent a committee from being able to bring a project, but that it at least, would ask that it come through so that you see it right and be able to opine on it. That's how I recalled it. But there were some because we talked about the fact we couldn't, we couldn't stop certain things, right? You couldn't stop a petitioner's article You can't stopr a petitioner's article, town counsel said, but Select Board could stop a article from a committee or board by not putting it in warrant Kelly Lappin: correct. Brian O'Herlihy: So, so I don't, I don't think my, my sense was we couldn't require a non board. committee are Petitioner from having to come before the committee. Kelly Lappin: Petitioner, for sure, Brian O'Herlihy: but the other boards and clean are expected, even if they try to go around the process of the capital planning process, they're expected and the filers, because they have their phone and put it before this committee. But we don't, we don't have the ability to say we've been saying we we recommend or don't recommend, I suppose, right? Kelly Lappin: But then ultimately, it's the Select Board that could say it never went before, it was didn't go before, or it didn't get recommended by it. So it leaves it to the Select Board. Brian O'Herlihy: And if it's a Select Board article, Brian Keveny: glad you said that Brian O'Herlihy: it's got to come before here, but they control whether, Kelly Lappin: yeah, they can. They can go against the recommendation, Unknown: I just make sure we have the plan versus all the what we've been spending time on. Then there's capital projects and possibly capital improvements that actually get put an award under a separate article, Kelly Lappin: understood Brian O'Herlihy: the size or Kelly Lappin: I think we're going to ask Brian that that we get clarification from town counsel. Yeah, and enough on that for today, because I do know we're now doing a great job this first meeting. Is chair. We're way behind Unknown: one clarification. This is really simple. What is the name of our committee that the appointment letter says it's Capital Improvement Planning Committee. We started the meeting today, starting into capital planning improvement committee. So what is the name of our committee? It's Capital Improvement Planning Committee. Capital, okay, capital, yeah, capital improvement, okay, the CIPC, okay, okay, so I'm going to move on. The next item was upcoming capital projects discussion about standing and upcoming capital projects was your vision there, Michael, because I know you put the agenda together to discuss what you already know about that's coming up, where, where the status of existing projects. So we worked on this. We weren't together. I, Kelsi and I put together some ideas. Wasn't sure if we would get you the spreadsheet in advance so that maybe we just have a high level overview of it. They got out this afternoon, but it was really a placeholder, so if we wanted to have a discussion about it, so I didn't have anything yet, okay to talk about happy to answer any questions. So I'm I think because people didn't have a chance to look at it, I think it makes sense for everybody to do that homework. I suggested there's one other thing I think that's not in there that we need for homework, which is the status of all the
capital projects, and not that that necessarily affects the new ones directly, but indirectly. It does, because if part of our evaluation of projects needs to be not only financial resources, but physical town resources, staff resources, to the projects, and that has to include an understanding of where all the things that have already been approved are in their life cycle, what resources they're using when we expect them to be completed. Kelly Lappin: So I know that's something. we've and I don't because I've been out of FinCom for a year I don't know where it landed, but I know it's something we started to make progress on. If you can share whatever the latest on that is with the committee, I appreciate it, because I think that's another item that's helpful for every committee members benefits. We've been in different places at different points in time in terms of how much of the stuff the town has already approved, what where it is, in terms of being done, we were way behind when I first came on FinCom. Lot of work was done to get caught up, and then Covid happened, and that threw a lot of projects into a delay for myriad of reasons, and so, you know, staff has been working hard to get things moving and closed out. So that's another piece of our evaluation. Is when we look at projects on the docket that we're going to approve, particularly for year one, are we approving projects that can move forward, or are we approving projects that aren't going to, you know, aren't going to move for a couple years because we're too busy finishing the stuff that's already in the docket, and that becomes important in terms of the financial resources are limited. We don't want to so we want to tie up financial resources ahead of the project actually being able to be done.
John Kliem: So do we do a true up on that annually or not at all? Is it kind of how often does that happen? Unknown: It, going forward? I think the anticipation was it would be trued up, not just annually at least, but continually right? But it's a work in progress at all times. Okay? Right as things are getting finished, it's being updated. So live, live document. How do we see other resources, the non expense side of it? How do we see the like, the FTE requirements? Is that somewhere else, or is that not planned? I would say that's more of like a kind of like an oral report sort of thing. And so I don't know if there's necessarily documents, but that's more of like fact finding from going to different departments that are championing those projects and just asking, what are the resources being taken by individual projects? So the opportunity as we send out the request for the long term planning for next year that we ask them to show bottleneck run planning, or something like just to say resources for the project they're asking for in their area. Yeah, it's a very good suggestion, John, I would tell you, I think there's probably work to be done on the information that we do request for capital projects. The CIP form needs an overhaul, for sure, and that's something we need to be adding, is clear understanding of the resources needed. Where those resources are coming from, right, whether they're internal, whether they're external, project managers and and also a sticking point over the years, what the ongoing needs are to operate, maintain, right going forward. And so some, some you think are pretty easy, right, that what they're going to need, and other things you know, use the example of this, the Community Center, the Council on Aging Community Center, right? One of the budgetary needs that had to be added into the budget as a result of that project upon completion, was that it needed, needs janitors, right? So I'm sure it probably needs more than that, but that wasn't there. But that aspect of the project as well. Not just what does it take to build it out or improve it? What does it take to actually operate?
John Kliem: We have the form? Can we send it out? Just for a quick review, before you send it out, Kelly Lappin: I can send out. I have an old one. Brian, it hasn't changed, has it? Brian Keveny: CIP, no. So that form has been it's kind of consistent with other towns. Has been changed. Watkins put in that expandable window and gives back and then you have the hidden columns that tie into the warrant. You know, they, there's a Michael McCall: most of which I don't they don't need Unknown: to drag it out. It's more of a, you know, we're asking everyone to touch it. Now it's, when do you think if this is approved, when would you plan to start it? You had the resources? Have you accounted for tariffs and inflation? I mean, those are the things I want to know if we're about to I don't know if we can always account for fluctuations in go into this
inflation. I mean, we do factor it in year over year. But one of the two things I want to mention, or three, actually, first one, Brad, I read the first line of the charge, and it calls it the capital planning improvement committee. So I was reading verbatim, and then the second line calls it to the Capital Improvement Planning Committee. So I'll have to get But a couple things, you know, the ex officio members include I'll have to get that fixed.
Michael, who's here, and Tom Holder, who's our DEP W director, and they've been leading the charge, along with the assistance of our assistant town manager, Kelsi, empowered to knock off those projects. And Kelsi has been working on maintaining the list through a third party software tool called Easy CIP, couple of things that we've worked on since right around the time Michael showed up, we're doing things. He's using a work order system that happened in here that's helping us to plan how we're using our resources. We commissioned a study with a third party to look at all of our facilities, a company called Onsite Insight. They were just coming back and doing some last minute work for us. They were out of the COA, the Council on Aging building, but they're going to give us our final report of all the building assessments. They looked at the envelopes and the buildings, the mechanicals inside, so we'll have an idea that we can look at and help us with that five year plan. In that five to 20 years, we also partnered with the schools to do an operation review of certain departments. One was facilities, and there was some internal departments. IT, human resources. We haven't received the final copy, but that's something that Michael's working on. There was, there was, you know, the structure inside of our facilities was not ideal when I arrived and when Michael arrived, we had the ability to share some resources with the school, and we're going to capitalize on that. And. And that's going to happen a lot with Michael working partnership with business office upstairs, so that we can work on these things in a more cost, effective and efficient manner going forward. But there was some organized chaos when we first showed up here, because there was people reporting to town and school, and it wasn't clear the hierarchy. And so he's working on that that will help us address, you know, a lot of these projects going forward, and tackle that backlog. So we've been working on these planning documents and having these outside reviews to help us reorganize inside so we can tackle a lot of these things. And it's because we've got a lot of good hires that have come out of the last few years that helping us do that.
John Kliem: So are we able to reach out to some of those people directly just to have some certain questions? Obviously, not in the group setting. Are we allowed to go directly to and have some conversations with them. Unknown: Yes, I I've always taken a position in the towns that I've worked in. It is never a problem asking staff questions and information. It's when people ask, try and ask them to to do tasks that's usually where I'd ask, come back for me, not that I think you would, but if you said, Hey, I think you should take project A over project D, and vice versa, and then I might say, run that through me, and then I'll have a conversation with Michael. But if you need information about certain projects, I wouldn't have a problem through reaching to key contacts sent out just so we don't have to someone to out
reach out to them. If you put together a list, John, of people, we can get you their email addresses. Kelly Lappin: Yeah, you should just, you should work through me as chair if you, if you want to reach out to somebody, just so that we're controlling the flow of information, I don't want to have three from people reaching out to Michael on the same stuff. We try and consolidate. Sure. Okay, all right, I want to talk about a couple of logistics things. So I'm on topic eight, which is topics not reasonably anticipated by the chair. Since I wasn't chair 48 hours ago, I wasn't reasonably interested. Unknown: Yeah, so rule number one. If you haven't already, you should be getting a town email, hopefully when you got sworn in by the town clerk. Everybody, everyone has, everybody's got their Town email. Please refrain from using personal email when you're doing business for the committee. It just it makes it much easier. If there's an open meeting, any sort of a request for information that it's in your town email. Brian O'Herlihy: Brian, just trying to provide helpful information at the outset here. So when you get on your town email, those that haven't been on before town system, in terms of storing messages, defaults to the so called conversations. And I know in the finance committee people were telling me they weren't getting my emails. I couldn't figure out why. And when it's stores in the conversation mode, it gets buried in a string of emails. So you can go in and I'll find email I send to the Finance Committee and send it to the rest of you. You can check the box to keep your file your inbox or your files chronologically, which I find are easier when you're looking for something. So I just, I'll forward an email, if that's okay with the chair. I can send it to you, and you can, Kelly Lappin: yeah, you can send it to me, and I'll send it out. That's one good tip. The other one is that there's another setting, and it's in the instructions that you would have gotten from the town, on your email, on focused emails, it tends the system, if you don't turn it off, tends to take things like zoom meetings and throw them in up in other so you won't see them in your in your inbox, they'll be in a folder called other you can turn that off. I recommend turning that off, or you'll miss the the meeting invites frequently. And then my question for Michael or Kelsi, Brian O'Herlihy: one more email. Yeah, helpful. Then and again, it's up to you. I have all my town email forwarding to my personal email because I don't want to necessarily have to go in all the time checking my town email, and so I'm constantly getting whatever hits my town email hits my personal email. So occasionally I might send something out with my personal email, but I always put a CC to my town email because the objective is to have all your emails saved on the panel server. But again, you can do whatever you want, but I'm just telling you over the years it's it's proven helpful. Unknown: I. On favorite. Kelly Lappin: My other question for either Kelsi or Michael is, I don't know if things have changed. I see Copilots in here now, so I know there's been some improvement in this. But is there any there didn't used to be? Maybe there still isn't. Maybe it's an open meeting law thing, a way to store, have a repository of files in the system, so that we're not living constantly in email forwards, right? So that we can have a folder of documents.
Unknown: We can talk to our new IT director to see if we could create something Kelly Lappin: we don't have it for any new SharePoint for what are the other committees do, Unknown: the Select uses Dropbox for their packets and such, but not our repository necessarily of information. It's more to transmit, or rather large packets because, you know, they can be up to 200 pages and three emails. So there's a school user about Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Google. They're on Google platforms, yes, and we're on Microsoft. Michael McCall: But I think the default with the Microsoft SharePoint create store stuff so we can find out the best, so that, yes, you're not emailing and re emailing yourself the same PDF 10 times. Yeah. Unknown: And also, when you email the updated version of the file, we can keep the current version of the right so that no one's out of sync on what the current version is, all right, if you can get back to me on that, that'd be helpful, because I've always been a frustration of mine on Town committees. Okay? And so the last thing I want to talk about, at least that I have, and then I'll ask the rest of you, is meeting times. Carol Martin: So not Unknown: a surprise, my preference is not to do them in the middle of the day, but at the same time, we have ex officio members, who are members of staff. So I don't want to always be asking them to be here in the evening, either. So are there like, kind of a shoulder time today? A personally, I had a meeting by 530 didn't know how we were going to be here, but I was looking for something folks needed to day for folks, unless we want to meet on Mondays, when we don't have select boarding meetings, because staff here until seven on Mondays. But that may not work for everybody FinCom meets on Mondays as well. But you know, if you did Mondays at five o'clock, it might not clash. Other things. The other the other issue, when we are finding the FinCom, there's correct me wrong color. There's limited slots for hybrid meetings. Yeah, we can only hold Kelsi Power-Spirlet: three consequent like three hybrid meetings that are running at the same Unknown: and there's only three days of the week that we can do them. One day, Brian O'Herlihy: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Kelly Lappin: Monday, Tuesday.Wednesday That's when we have our zoom coordinator, Brian O'Herlihy: just throw that out there.
Unknown: Okay, so I'm going to ask committee members if you have any preference or restrictions on dates and times so you do Brian O'Herlihy: whatever is fine with everybody else. What I'll say about staff is that odds are I'm usually here after four o'clock. So I don't mind attending if you pick a Tuesday or Wednesday, but I may not tell the other ex officio members, they have to be here at every meeting if you're going to be covered facilities or something. I might say, then we'll go ahead and ask him to show but I have no problem. 10 minutes Michael Faia: time to start a problem. So Bradford Carver: I can be flexible. I don't prefer Mondays. I prefer to stay away from Mondays, but, but I can be flexible. Elizabeth Lusky: I prefer to have it after, after hours, so five o'clock or after, yep, John,
Kelly Lappin: that's my preference. But Monday, Monday's the tough one, because Unknown: if, if no, just anyone out there, if you're trying to get more staff so we're staying low, I would say we try and get those selective we want to bring in so you're not bringing same staff. Monday is the test paper. But I could do that. That's That's not we ended up into account our our attendance at Select Board meetings as well on Mondays. That just might be a but Kelly Lappin: if we did Monday select boards, usually at 763, right? So what if we did like Monday? If everybody's okay with a Monday at five, which I don't that's not my preferred. My preferred is later, but I can do Monday at five at least gets it a little bit closer for staff. Michael Faia: Tuesday, my tmdcs are Tuesdays at seven, so it's seven o'clock that way after
Elizabeth Lusky: that seven also probably Carol Martin: works better Brian O'Herlihy: if you did Tuesday or Wednesday hybrid and you schedule the meetings, schedule a bunch of them ahead of time, at least staff wouldn't necessarily physically have to be here. They could, Kelly Lappin: they could do from home. You said pnbc is on Tuesday, Michael Faia: but that's sporadic at this point, big projects, so start up again. But I can, it's, it's a Kelly Lappin: moveable I'm gonna, I'm gonna say standing Tuesday at seven, if we can do that. And then Michael, to the extent we need to have staff in, we can always do pick, like I'm off that like to do staff, and we can certainly have folks participate in hybrid. Sorry, before Elizabeth Lusky: we say that your Tuesday meeting that's standing is Greg Lusky in that? Okay, so I can't do that because that's my husband and somebody has to do. But if you have to go at that meeting, then maybe we're fine anyway. Kelly Lappin: So, but is pmbc a particular is it every other week? Is it a month? Michael Faia: It's once a month, sporadic at this point, so we don't have anything big enough for them to actually weigh in, because we could do Kelly Lappin: Tuesdays, Tuesdays at seven, but take a look at that and make sure we're not coinciding with computer safe, yeah,
Brian Keveny: Tuesday at five, so people are waiting three hours. Any person Tuesday at five, we're
Kelly Lappin: Yeah. The problem is, my day is not usually over, but like, I can make it feel the difference and say six, yeah, we can compromise and do six. Okay, we're
going to try that we can always adjust if needed. And let's since today is Tuesday, let's do the first one two weeks from today, February
Carol Martin: 23 you can can't do Kelly Lappin: that. No, it's fresh or something. Oh, yeah, it is, yeah,
Unknown: okay.
Kelly Lappin: No, we could do, I could do next week? I mean, just to get us going. Unknown: Yeah, the problem is, is that we already have three zoom vibrant meetings, starting at six o'clock on 16th of I because I pulled it up the minute, because I just Bradford Carver: want to make sure it's just, but if everybody's here, does that matter? Unknown: If everyone's in person, that's fine. We can find you. I can probably find your room, yeah, because one of this is zoom only, so John Kliem: next Tuesday, Unknown: being here since 7am like, you know, ends at four. So similar people. The benefit of hybrid is, if you're having staff member come back in, Kelly Lappin: they can join right. What about Wednesday? The 17th, Unknown: at six, you could do six, yeah. So everybody check their calendars Elizabeth Lusky: Wednesday, the six, seven times and 17, yeah. Kelly Lappin: At six at work, yeah. Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Yep, it works. Okay, let's Bradford Carver: try that. In case you want to schedule a couple more beyond that, just to then start with our calendars and Brian Keveny: things. Yeah, Kelly Lappin: let's go back to let's see if we can do so Tuesday the 30. I'm Yeah. Tuesday September 30. Unknown: Council that, Tuesday September 30. Otherwise, yep, wide open, Tuesday September 30. Michael Faia: Okay, six, Carol Martin: 930 and six. Kelly Lappin: All right, let's start with that. Anybody and so I'm gonna go around the room about anything else you want to raise Bradford Carver: it. Thank you. Liz, Unknown: awesome. John, Brian, anybody on staff? Brian, Kelsi, Amanda, we can do I'm just trying to be mindful of their time too.
When we build agendas, maybe have any items that require some of the staff or the ex officiant members to your input, put those towards the front of the agenda. Yeah, I'm sorry I do have one quick follow up. So do we agree that the two Wednesday the 17th is that in person or hybrid? Hybrid perfect.
Kelly Lappin: I would want to always be hybrid, because I never know when Carol Martin: something might come up. Bradford Carver: So that one shall use the expectation, then everybody Kelly Lappin: will be hybrid, which is, I prefer to come in personally, because I think it's easier to talk, but I like to leave the hybrid option open. So that, folks, I mean, I travel for work, sometimes it just doesn't. Sometimes you have a kid at home and you can't leave. Carol Martin: So, yeah, up.
Kelsi Power-Spirlet: All right, Kelly Lappin: I get a motion to adjourn, Unknown: so moved second
Kelly Lappin: Yes, roll call vote to adjourn. Brian, yes. Tom, yes. Liz, yes. Brad, yes. Kelly, yes, we are adjourned at 429, I.
Michael McCall: Okay, this meeting today's meeting of the capital planning improvement committee is being held in person and hybrid pursuant to the the acts of 2025, chapter two and other statues. This meeting will be conducted via remote means, in accordance with approachable law. This meeting may be recorded, which may be available to the public on WayCAM As soon as practical after this meeting, when required by law or allowed by the chair or the person acting internally elected chair, persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so remotely by accessing the meeting remotely as known and above, we request public comment be limited to two persons per person, so that know if there's anybody wishes to provide public comment. Brian O'Herlihy: I'm sorry, did you say John is not able to participate? Michael McCall: I did send him the link, so I will go around and say who's in attendance. Well, Kelsi looks to anybody online Kelsi Power-Spirlet: I think it is actually himself. So, Michael McCall: John, awesome. Brian O'Herlihy: I assume John was there when we started.
Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Yep, and there's nobody else sweet. Michael McCall: So members of the committee that are in the room, Brian O'Herlihy, Kelly Lappin, Liz Lusky, I don't have Bradford Carver: Brad Carver the other , your name please. Michael McCall: Brad Carver, and online, we have John Kleim. There are ex officio members in the room, myself, Michael McCall, Town Manager, Brian Keveny our finance director is here. We're also accompanied by our assistant town manager, Kelsi Power-Spirlet and I do know in the audience we have Michael Fay, who's our Facilities director, and our Select Board Chair, Carol Martin, and there's anybody Brian O'Herlihy: is the is Michael an ex officio member as well? Carol Martin: Yes, Unknown: you are okay.
Michael McCall: Bye, yeah, so many of you probably know the Town Manager Act makes me responsible for the preparation of the operating budget and the capital budget in it's often the case in cities and towns. It's usually the town manager working with finance director to put it together in my last community that had been the case until we brought forward a similar proposal to create a capital planning, capital planning improvement committee. And so here my thought, in speaking with members of the Select Board and our working group last year, was to behoove us to have a group of dedicated volunteers from the community with different expertise to take a second look at the five year capital plan and help us put together the the capital plan for the upcoming fiscal year as to work as well as to work on the five year capital plan. But ultimately, the goals is to start looking at years from five up to 20, you know, in the background. So I like to think of it as being an air traffic control. You've got the immediate ones- that's year one, and the ones that are in close proximity, but you have to think about those ones that are way out starting to come in. I also felt that this committee could be help, be a gatekeeper for some of the many other capital related projects that come to our attention, that some of you know right now, a proposal came forward to the Town to look at potentially acquiring 14 West plain Street. And I thought this committee might be a good resource to weigh in on issues like that for the Select Board, so also provide some level of advisory opinion to me to share with the Select Board when, when issues like that come up, where we have opportunities that to to do a project or to acquire something that otherwise might be in a capital plan, but comes up on short notice. So I thought there's benefits to that as well. Unknown: And similarly, we have community preservation projects that come through that don't always get passed through my office, sometimes people come in and ask for money for projects that ultimately use staff resources to maintain and to contribute to. And I thought some of those that if they're going to involve either matching funds or resources from the town, might be something that I would look to this committee to to weigh in on as well. Like you know, we've had some folks that have wanted to make improvements, say on the Cochituate Ball Fields, and whether or not we that's a project that we should do, oftentimes we get a donation, or we get someone to ask for CPC money, but it's something that's then going to require maintenance oper and facilities to maintain our DPW. And is that something that we should bring into the fold, because it's competing with some of the projects that we already have in our current fiscal year plan, or a five year capital credit? So that was some of the thought process of all this, I know most of you submitted your paperwork to the respective boards for your appointments. I didn't know if you wanted to introduce yourself, because this is being televised and some people may not know who you are, and so that might be good if we just go around the room. Those of you who are volunteers, who've been appointed, just state your name why you're interested, and I can start with Liz, because she's right here. Elizabeth Lusky: Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Liz, Lusky, first time volunteering in Wayland, but have volunteered in other capacities in Massachusetts for a period of time prior to having kids. Some of my kids are a little bit older. Said out loud, I'm dating myself, but have a little bit more time and capacity to help out. So just looking to get engaged and involved in my community. So that's
Kelly Lappin: Kelly, opine, this is not my first foray into Town volunteering. I did six years in terms on finance committee, and was very involved in capital when it came to evaluating it with the finance committee in order to put together the budget that went to Town meeting. I have a background in finance, specifically I'm a pension actuary. So that's the area I hope to bring to the group. Bradford Carver: Brad Carver, been a Wayland resident since 1993 I've been involved in a couple different town boards or commissions. I was talking to Brian before about when the public safety building had some issues. I got involved. Then I got involved on the early stages of the high school trying to decide whether to build a new high school or tear down the existing one. I'm currently on the Historical Commission, and my background is law. I'm a litigation attorney that concentrates in construction. So thank you. Brian O'Herlihy: Brian O'Herlihy, I'm a 42 year resident of Wayland, retired. I volunteered in town now 25 years and I'm the school committee's designee, and hopefully Kelly and I, we both served on the finance committee together for a couple years, and I think she understated the value she brought to the capital review, and she also forgot to mention, she was chair Kelly Lappin: I am the Finance Committee designee Brian O'Herlihy: I think you also served on the working group that led to this committee. So anyway, hopefully the two of us can bring some institutional knowledge for the other three members. So thank you. Michael McCall: John online, John Kliem: yes, good afternoon. Well, my name is John Kleim. I apologize. I have the flu today, so I'm not there with you. I. I this is my first time serving on a committee. I've been in town for about nine years now, and similar, my kids are at a reasonable age to participate more. well, they have lots of sports. It was a good time to get involved the Capital Planning Committee aligns nicely what I've done at my prior roles at Fortune 500 companies, doing capital long term planning. So it seemed like a exciting time to get involved and help out where I can.
Unknown: Thank you. And in addition, as town manager, I want to be involved, and I'm one of the ex officio members. Michael, you just let people know what your title is and what you're doing. Michael Faia: Director of Buildings and Facilities for the town of Wayland. I'm fairly new. I was on the original committee to put this committee together, and I bring years of construction and facilities knowledge to the table. So hopefully that will help Kelsi Power-Spirlet: I'm Kelsi Powers-Spirlet. I'm the assistant town manager. And traditionally, the assisting and managing the capital budget has fallen under the assistant town manager. So I hope that some of my knowledge, although I've been in the position for about a year now, I can hope to help to support this committee with background information and administrative support and logistic support. Brian Keveny: So I'm Brian Keveny. I've been in finance director for 13 years, CPA, 56 year resident of Arlington. I should try to get on the capital planning committee in Arlington. And my wife wouldn't let me. because I mean Wayland Town so she says, when I retire, I can join their capital planning committee. Unknown: So there are other two, according to our charge, two other ex officio members, the schools finance director and operational director, as well as the Director of Public Works, who couldn't be here today, but I think some of these people will come from time to time. Hopefully we can get as many people as possible as we future. The next thing on the agenda was just to review the charge and the Capital Improvement Planning committee's charge is that they are responsible for the planning and subsequently recommending to the town manager a capital improvement programming, program, identifying the town's future capital projects, programs, improvements and acquisitions having a useful life greater than five years and it cost at least $25,000 the committee shall study current and long term proposed capital projects and improvements involving non recurring tangible projects and assets. Committee is also charged with developing a long range capital plan of at least five years. And the committee shall prepare annually a capital plan, recommending a capital improvement budget for the next fiscal year. Questions, comments, concerns about that. Elizabeth Lusky: Clarifying question, yes, I know earlier you had mentioned we'll be reviewing, writing suggestions, weighing in, and the charter says developing so is it? Was it really just assessing a list that we pulled together and asking questions to kind of rack and stack or so? Unknown: I think we're supposed to discuss a little about that in item 6, 7 but to your point, there's essentially a queue that's been going the projects get in and they slide over, generally, what's in the five year capital plan slides over in, the ones at the front of the queue getting to that one year capital plan. But from time to time, you do have things that emergencies may come up, may want to shift that generally, the procedure here is not to try and change the order, so to evaluate the ones that are going to get to the queue, if there has to be any reordering, to make recommendations. So the way code and Town Manager Act is written, I still make recommendations, and the Finance Committee ultimately votes on the recommendations that I make. But the last couple of years before I've been here, and I think the years leading up, and a lot of the actual preparation, the budget and the capital plan, comes really from the finance director and the person sitting in my office, and then the Finance Committee weighs in on it, makes recommendations based on what we've proposed. That's how it's been working to date. So we wanted Brian and I, the finance director, had talked about having this additional group that could be focused on looking at that five year capital plan. But of, in each year department heads submit new capital requests, where they would fit? Would they go at the end of the queue? Would any of them slot in elsewhere? Again, a different priority? So that's where this the value of this committee would need to be that board making those recommendations that we would hopefully incorporate right into our proposal that we then submit to the Select Board and finance committee. So any other questions? So moving not as good as the chair. No, I'm Brian Keveny: so Michael, So to be a little clearer on the question, so you may or may not have seen the Excel file that was sent out, but that's what I've been building for the last six, seven years around that time frame. The past four years of already approved capital items, that have already been submitted by departments, and they went through a review process and they made it into the plan. Right now it doesn't have the fifth year. So what typically is going to happen is that there's going to be requests given out to department heads to submit their fifth year and give us their five year capital plan. It should be, what's already in the plan. We take those two documents and we just basically true up the five year program. So my reason, is this group is going to decide the fifth year and maybe more, because the Town really lacks. five years is very small, and it really needs to extend more than probably 10 years. Is that the code that's 10, 5 years is that the charge five? And we have 5, but in the long range capital working group we talked about that, we really started, we need to start looking at years 5 through 20, right? So it probably would be a good idea to do the five year and really do a 10 year, because what we're looking at on the town side is the real possibility, or the reality that the town is going to have to do many years of override votes to balance the budget. In a key piece of the forecast, that we use, is the capital that's in this plan that we've already ran debt service, and it's already mapped into our forecast, so four years of the debt service that's in that plan that was sent to you today, is already in our forecast, and we're projecting that, that will be used to project out our for-forecast lead. And Brian has been participating in that group too. So I said along the really, really important that the town nails down a real solid five year plan and 10 because we need to know the cost of the debt service in projecting overrides. Now you have a plan that already has four years. I would suggest go through it and get an idea of- it's an Excel file that came from only seven years ago when I did this, I looked at a whole bunch of different towns and what Excel files they use, and I kind of like Wakefield had this one, Wilmington, to me, it worked good. So this, this format is what we've used in the last seven years. So you can either continue this format or come up with another format, and we'll get into revenues and stuff later. But when you take a look at the file, you'll see, it's already projects out what projects we're going to do and when and how we're going to pay for it. And as you get to the next year, things change, because when these departments come in, they're going to say, you know, the product that I wanted in 2000 next year, a half a million. I don't want anymore, but I want this $2 million dollar one. And what happens is it wreaks havoc on our forecast. So we can't, can't continue . Or we we have to discourage people coming in with catastrophic changes to the plan, the plan is not set in stone, but it's pretty much set in stone. You don't want to deviate from it, because what happens year after years. And you'll see when we go through it, when we ask the departments for their capital, and it's very soon, it's September, we usually ask in October to submit the capital. Michael will send out a guideline. Just submit the capital. What happens is they'll submit a CIP form for what's what they want for next year, and that should be within the plant, and then they're going to give an Excel file what they want to do over the next five years. We may ask them to do 10 years. That's probably what I would recommend, really, to do 10 years. But they're going to submit this stuff, and you'll see that they'll be asking for things that they, they didn't ask for -for the very first time. And for like, for example, there's discussions about a building down the street, what Street is it Carol? Carol Martin: West Point, Brian Keveny: West plain. Okay, that's so it's around $1.5 million. That's not even in the plan, and if they wanted to do it next year. That. And that's 1.5 million. That would be, you know, usually it's with principal and interest. It's like 10%. so that's, that's $150,000 that we haven't even accounted for. So you'll see the importance of, you know, being firm with discouraging changes, because it has a ripple effect on everything. So I think the fifth year is going to be done. and that's the easiest year, as you'll see. The other the other years, they have funding sources. They have the products, and probably good idea to bring in the departments and and go through them with the committee and explain what they want to do over the next five years to get an idea of how it all works, because the capital plan ties to the forecast, and we need to have a forecast so we can go to the residents and say, we need an override of or not, and how much is the override? So it's it's critical that we have that basis. Kelly Lappin: So I have a slightly different opinion than Brian. I do agree adding the fifth years as a piece of what needs to be done, but scrutiny over the first four years is also necessary, because of. if we don't have the scrutiny over the first four years up front, when these changes come in, it becomes chaos to figure out, well, why is the thing that you're coming with now more important than the thing that you asked for for this this coming year, a year ago? Did priorities really change that much? And sometimes, yes, sometimes it's sorry- the boiler broke at the Middle School, and that has to that has to move ahead. But that's not always the case, and so having that scrutiny over at least the first time around, when we, when we look at those first five years, why are they in that year? Are they in that year because they're absolutely necessary that year. Are they in that year because that's when we had room in, you know, debt is that what? Getting that scrutiny over that so that we can do a better job as the changes come of deciding, Yeah, that one's gotta flip with this other one or not has to happen as well. So it's adding the fifth year, but it's it's getting really, really down in the dirt on, why those first four years are what they are, and whether or not there's any flexibility in what those, what the things that would need to be flexible should be, because we've had, every single year, we have a combination of things that come up. that are gotta do it at the boiler. And we have things that come up of. like, I really like this idea, let's, let's do this, right. Or things like might be like the West Plain, it's an opportunity to some, right? It's not going to come up, it gets sold, it's not going to come up again, evaluate it and figure out what to do with it. So I think it's both adding and the scrutiny. And then I agree with Michael, equally important is knowing what the horizon looks like, because I think a lot of our issues have come from not having good visibility beyond what's in the immediate landing zone. So Unknown: since we skip ahead item number seven, we can come back to this. I would really like to go back to item number five so that someone else could referee, and that would be to pick officers. Here we discussed. It's listed as picking a Chair and Vice Chair. Mr. O'Herlihy, he has graciously offered to do minutes, probably so he could get out of being the chair. Brian O'Herlihy: Not true. Michael McCall: So thankless job? Yeah, they're all really jobs. So I guess I would open the floor for nominations for a chair. See who would like to be chair of the capital planning committee Elizabeth Lusky: I'm gonna ask some more questions. What is the responsibility of the chair versus the Vice Chair? Just so we know what we're signing up for. Unknown: So I'm chairing various committees, typically the chairs, the person who's going to put together the agenda, pick the meeting dates, ensure that it's published, and then actually run, facilitate the meeting. And we'll probably be the spokesperson. if there's going to be correspondence between this committee and the board the public or the Select Board my office, they would be most likely person, unless otherwise designated, to an individual member, to be signing anything, you know, a Memorandum of sorts, Vice Chair, typically in most boards is the person who seconds votes, but also is there to fill in for the chair. The chair is not able to fulfill their duties if they're absent that day, usually the vice chair will sit in run the meeting, but oftentimes, you know. On my experience on most boards chair ask for a motion. Usually the vice chair is the person often seconds it for purposes of discussion, unless there's somebody on the committee who's actually advocating for a particular motion they want to second motion.
Elizabeth Lusky: Okay, I don't think I'm the best person for the chair, since this is my first, first bite at the apple, but certainly I could support as the vice chair that helped us at all.
Unknown: Yeah, I feel a little uncomfortable. The committee is fascinating. It's going to be interesting. But for me, with my background. I 'd think for me a very large learning curve, and I'm not sure it makes me feel comfortable leading discussions about topics that I'm not completely conversant in. That makes sense and the field is narrowing. It's someone's face going Brian Keveny: until we go run broad paper scissors. Unknown: John, you have any thoughts for a chair? I mean somewhere John Kliem: that went out, I've never done it before, so we're willing to bear with it. Or why not? Unknown: I'll I just, I just finished up on the Finance Committee, and I was Vice Chair, and I was probably doing more of the chair duties than the chair was doing. Chair was running the meetings, but I was doing the rest of the agenda setting, dates and all of that stuff. And that's a lot of work, particularly for anybody that works, and so it was helpful for our chair to have me being willing to do that. So happens, I also kept the minutes, so it was an extra load. So I'm not overly anxious to sort of put that same load on myself. Brian O'Herlihy: Again, logic would suggest that Kelly has, you know, the most experience of all of us vis a vis the capital in the background, and worked on the working group. I'm also sympathetic the fact that Kelly works, and it is a lot of work, and as I look forward another lot of times, the vice chair will be kind of a hopefully chair and waiting and so you know whether there's some basis on which one of the three Select Board appointees could carry some of the extra load that would normally go with the chair, with some support, perhaps from me, quick flip, Kelly and she kind of knows stuff and where to direct us, if she was willing, kind of take the helm, at least for this year, and then hopefully a year from now, whoever was vice chair will feel comfortable and conversant that they would be willing to take it on unless Kelly is still here after a one year term runs out. But I mean, I think the only two people fairly could probably do it in a new committee like this would be Kelly or myself, and Kelly, you're showing your opportunity to wiggle out of it. Michael McCall: Was that a nomination in there. Unknown: I'm happy to nominate Kelly, but only after she acknowledges that she reluctantly would accept the nomination, could I make a suggestion, and you have, perhaps even for six months. You don't want to do a full term. Do co chairs, so other committees have done it to help the burden. Kelly Lappin: Yeah, one person isn't responsible for that. I don't know. I don't know. I have sometimes I think co chair makes it even harder. Yeah, for the coordination. But my issue, and Brian suspects it knows it right as I work far more than full time, and so some of the logistics stuff has to get done right on a schedule for to meet the deadline to get the agenda set. So I do get a little concerned about being able to do that, timely. I'm willing. I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I am willing to chair with support, right? So if somebody is willing to vice chair and help share that some of that logistical burden, right? I'm more than happy to help guide the discussion and lead the meetings. And I can, you know, I can do some of getting stuff in, but I also have to make sure my job gets done as well. So I can do that. I have a one year term. I don't necessarily anticipate continuing beyond that year. So if it would be important that whoever's vice chair is considering, you know, stepping into the chair role, hopefully a year later. So I'm willing to do it for a year, but Unknown: so that's how I nominate Kelly Lapin is chair, and is there a second for that? Bradford Carver: second. So general
Michael McCall: I nominated, Brad seconded. Brian O'Herlihy: For purpose of discussion, while I think hopefully one of the other three will voice an interest in being Vice Chair, even if hopefully someone does, I'm I'm also happy, if need be assist with the agenda logistics, just because I've just gone through that for a year and but I also think whoever's vice chair is probably good training to kind of go through that process. It's not it's really not that difficult, but if you're working full time and there are time deadlines, it's important that stuff's getting done. So, you know, looking at the other three, if I may, go make a motion for Vice Chair. Unknown: The motion has been seconded is there any discussion on that first? Anybody else want to weigh in on the discussion about the nomination for Kelly Lappin to be chair, Seeing and hearing none. I'll do a roll call vote. Liz, Elizabeth Lusky: yes. Unknown: Brad Bradford Carver: yes. Unknown: Brian, Brian O'Herlihy: yes. Unknown: June, John, John, I'm sorry. John Kliem: yes Unknown: And Kelly, Kelly Lappin: yeah. Brian O'Herlihy: Thank you Kelly. Michael McCall: Unanimous. John Kliem: Thank you Kelly. Unknown: I will make a motion for vice chair and the other three. I think Michael McCall: so. Technically, she's in charge of the meeting. Brian O'Herlihy: Oh Okay
Kelly Lappin: Yes, recognizing Carol Martin from boards last night. Carol Martin: Thank you. Unknown: Like, well, Carol Martin: member the Select Board, but we have done that share as their share is a really given. You know, more of some duties the Vice Chair, because I think it's, it's a waste. So, of course, it would be better for the whole year, and then they come in and so more involvement in the development of the agendas and other things so Kelly Lappin: Understood. Thank you, Carol. All right, so then, I why don't we open up discussion on Vice Chair? Any Unknown: Yeah, I would normally say of the other three of you that a point have an actual interest, and you should speak up and asking anybody speaking up. I would just note that I think of the three of you, Brad, you're the only one that's actually have volunteer experience in town. I think there's some value to that in terms of Open Meeting Law and process and seeing how meetings are run. And I think you're retired, so not to say you don't have lots of other things going so unless the other two, you know, really have desire to do it, I'd be inclined to nominate Brad. But again, I don't want to do that if someone else has a real interest in or you really don't want to take that on. No, thank you. I don't, I don't initially mind throwing my hat in the ring on it, you know, unless Liz or John have an interest, I know you guys have, I think, more direct experience with finance, with planning than I do, but, but I'm, I'm certainly willing to to learn to do it.
I'm here for three years, so I'm okay this year, I'll just observed and absorbed like a sponge. And you know, if this is coming up again in a year, then there's another opportunity to have that discussion. Kelly Lappin: So John thoughts, John Kliem: agree, yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't know it well enough to be that effective in the first year, but we can support and share the workload however possible, so
Unknown: I'll move it. We nominate Brad Carver as the vice chair. We have a second? Elizabeth Lusky: second Unknown: second from Liz. Go by Liz alright discussion on Brad as vice chair, seeing none to a roll call vote. We start with John, John Kliem: yeah.
Kelly Lappin: Brian, Brian O'Herlihy: yes Kelly Lappin: Liz Elizabeth Lusky: Yes. Kelly Lappin: Brad, Bradford Carver: yes.
Kelly Lappin: Kelly, yes. Brian O'Herlihy: Thank you, Brad. Unknown: Thank you, Brad.
Kelly Lappin: Okay, and I apologize, but I can't get into the agenda right now. So kind of hard to chair the meeting, but let me try. Unknown: after the officers, Kelly Lappin: perfect Unknown: item number six was the discussion of timelines and reporting to the town manager and for Town meeting warrants. So I guess that's something that Brian and I can talk about a little bit given the discussions we have our budget working meeting tomorrow. There's some members of the Finance Committee, Mr. O'Herlihy. He's on we've been talking about some strategies to the board of selectmen, or the Select Board, I should say, relative to trying to avoid an operating overridem in 2027 despite our best efforts, the numbers aren't breaking in our favor. So it may be more likely than not , that we wind up asking as a working group for an override to the board of selectmen. That being the case, I think I'm going to send out my budget letter a little earlier, Brian Keveny and I didn't get to meet today, but I was thinking that I may try and get it out in the next week or so, asking the department heads to submit their budgets as well as their CIP requests, so that we have a better handle on any potential ask that we have to make to the Select Board, but I will leave it to Brian to ask typically, when he needs the five year plan and the actual capital plan for the fiscal year, FY27 based on your timeline, where would you typically work as community to make a recommendation to the two of us. Well, I would probably just do a budget guideline for the capital first. joint one. I think the, where are we September 9? I would say maybe, if we get it out in a week, the guideline on the capital, maybe by October 15, they submit the information, and I think then we line up, then they come in and present to the committee what they want to do. And then I think they really have up until, this committee would have up a long window of time to do this Brian O'Herlihy: early December. Brian Keveny: That's too early. I mean, I would probably give the committee until when they have to, they have to come up with a five year plan. What they do is not going to affect fiscal 27 that's that was done a year ago, the debt service. It's really going to affect 28,29,30 I would think if they, if they come up with a five year, you know, add the fifth year and true up, and then the first four. I'm almost trying to give it maybe the end of January, finish that and do a presentation of that. And then, to you, it goes to you first, right? And then, and then Kelly Lappin: it goes, you gotta work backwards, right? When does FinCom need it? Michael McCall: Yeah, and get something Unknown: isn't going to change it. I mean, it's, it's going to come, probably complete. I think December is too early. You should give the something to the Select Board, the FinCom right around the end of the year, well before we used to do the capital until in February and March, and like 12 years ago, we moved into the fall, just to get the capital off the plate. Uh, FinCom and everybody, before you get into jerry and they switch to the budget. They're not dealing with the operating budget. So I think another month is worthy of Kelly Lappin: Brian. Unknown: I believe the bylaw requires that we complete our work. I'm not saying that's realistic for this year, but we were required to clear work and provide a recommendation by October 15, correct. Carol Martin: I think its Oct Brian Unknown: what it says on the bio. And so this year, obviously that's not going to happen. But the reason I'm raising that is for what you're saying, Brian, looking forward, a year from now, you won't be able to, you know, follow your normal sort of timing that used to follow to get the FinCom something in, you know, late December, early January. This group's, you know, and arguably, this group will have been meeting throughout the- am correct? Carol Martin: sorry, I'm just going to Brian here, because he's looking for 60 at 16. Unknown: So this group will have been meeting, you know, throughout the year, versus the Finance Committee, who traditionally works with capital budget for a month six weeks press time. So a year from now. Presumably there, there'd be more planning that have been done versus right now, will be kind of a sprint, to have at least three of the five of us get up to speed on the first four years of the plan and then try to figure out what belongs in the fifth year of the plan. But that's still going to require a sprint and and so, you know, I just want to make clear that whatever we do this year shouldn't become precedent, because we won't be able to comply with by law, and it's going to be very different next year to meet that deadline in terms what department heads are asked to and when, because it sounds like you're going to have to probably push that, you know, until just after the fiscal year ends, to be able to start accumulating the information in time to have this group at least have a month. Elizabeth Lusky: So a couple of clarifying questions, when is our fiscal calendar, or When's our fiscal year beginning in July, one to June 30. Okay? And so that point, I would think, yeah, the budget request the departments we're saying are going to go out, typically October ish, maybe or September this year. We would essentially bring that in. roughly what is the cycle for when we would have, or what we would have to review, you know, the list and come up with, you know, we'll say year five, and then out years beyond that, real time. So we might not have Andrews Unknown: committee might need, you know, I did it, because I'm working here all day. I can get what department heads and do it. But if you're coming in, in meeting for two hours. I mean, you probably need two months. I think this this year is an anomaly, because of this October 15 date. Once you finally get a budget up and running, you can meet year round. And you know, this can really be started next July to meet that October 15 date. This October 15 date is like tomorrow, yeah. And so there's no way you're going to hit that. So I think you need at least two months to meet with all the department heads understand the revenue constraints fit into a five year plan. There are going to be changes. They're going to come in with some new stuff. And no, "I gotta have it next year." Particularly the school, you know, they're famous for that. And I think, I think for this year, I forgot about this. I think this year we really got to give them until Thanksgiving. Even if you meet every single week, I would suspect you're going to meet every two weeks. You know, in a cycle, maybe, I guess. I think once you go to a one time, you'll, you'll catch up the second time and the third time, yeah, that's right. In reality, if a five year plan is actually working, all you really don't bring in the last year, the out here and trueing things up. So I think once you give, I would give at least Thanksgiving. At least Thanksgiving. John Kliem: Is there any benefit to asking them for any more immediate requests in a shorter timeline and giving them more time on the five year, just to make sure there's no surprises? Because it seems like waiting that much time for a full five year, but they already know in the next two, three years, they have a change. I assume they would know that now versus a longer term plan, right? So is there a benefit in breaking that up so we can kind of work through it, instead of waiting for the entire thing to come to us to have to kind of then work through it? Unknown: I don't, I don't think, I don't think I heard. meaning if, if we know there's changes to the one year, right? Which I would imagine most of the departments know right now, what they are thinking about might need to be changed for the one year, right, getting that as early as possible. But you're, I mean, right now, what Brian outlined was they're going to send out budget guidelines a week, roughly a week from now, right? Request the departments are going to get back by October 15, is that what I heard you say? before we reveal this, but that's, that's not even, right? That's not even a month for them to turn around stuff. So they don't know that you're going to get it too much faster than that, right? Brian Keveny: I think we asked them to submit by the I think it's enough time, because, Unknown: right? They are not going to get it faster. You're not, you're not going to be able to get it pulled in a whole lot faster than that, even if we had time to break it up, right? Do one year, and then do the remaining four, it's not going to get done that much faster than October 15, and then we still need to balance it, yeah, them submitting their request, and then we still need to evaluate it. Brian Keveny: So we have to build a 50, you know, Kelly Lappin: yeah, right. But I think there's plenty for us to do, given this the first year, there's plenty for us to do, just getting acclimated. To what's existing in the plan, so that when that information comes into the departments, we're ready to go with it. I don't know that we're gonna be able to do it much faster than October 15, given the time constraint we have right now. So I don't know how that works in terms of complying with by law that isn't really feasible to comply with, but I wouldn't see us being able to turn anything around without at least a month right to turn it around from the time that the departments come into office, Brian Keveny: I think a month is pretty, pretty fast to turn it Kelly Lappin: around. Yeah, right. Great. Yeah. In my in my head, I thought December 15, because I was stuck on the old the budget. Unknown: I mean, I think for this first year, you gotta give you guys enough time to just get this, this first year done, and then get caught up on the bylaw the next year. I think what we did last year for the Finance Committee, where a lot of this activity took place, since we had three new members. was we started in September looking at the four years of the previous five year plan. Kelly's point -so that when information started coming in all we had to focus on and answering questions quickly for the new members of kind of, what are these things? Why are they there? As Kelly said earlier, getting down weeds. So then when the request came in, we then hopefully focus on any proposed changes to those first four years. And then the last thing we were doing is focusing on the fifth year that was getting added in. And so, okay, hopefully there won't be significant variations over what was in the next four years, but three days committee, it wasn't a year that there weren't a number of things moving around, and then there's unknown things out there that we only know when the requests come in. Brian O'Herlihy: So I think Kelly, if, if we would committee, could commit to meet at least a couple times if you're going to have to obviously review this stuff on their own, it's always good thing that people. it's daunting to look at Brian's spreadsheets when they show up, because there's many, many tabs and there's lots of detail. And obviously it'll be easier for Kelly and I, because we live with that document. But for the rest of you, your eyes are in a glaze over, and so you're going to have to commit find time outside the meeting to review at least the relevant parts of it. When you then come to the meeting, we can respond to questions that members have and be waiting for whatever that date is, October 15, or the following week or two, for the changes. And then that's what we laser focus on. As John suggesting may not be a bad idea to least in the request, see if it's possible to get the responders to ship in year one, fiscal 27 in two weeks, with the rest to follow by October 15, something like that, is because that'll flush out any real, near term surprises that but. Unknown: that seems reasonable to me. I mean, ultimately, if Brian's going to issue the ,well, you're going to issue the guide, are you going to issue the guideline Michael to the departments that would be the request. is that they have four weeks to respond if they could focus on your one first and that in within a couple weeks, and then follow up with the rest. We'd appreciate it. for the rest of the committee, I think, I recommendation on homework right for the committee number one, pull up the warrant. There's copies of it, probablyprobably out in the front hall, if you like printed or if you like printed, or you can pull it up on the town's website and read the finance report and the capital section, sort of that section cover to cover, because that's going to give you the same presentation that went to town residents, right? And summaries of what the of what the capital plan was, what the request for year one, this, this current fiscal year, were, so I think that's a good place to start. The next place will be reviewing the spreadsheet. Kelly Lappin: There's actually Brian's spreadsheet, and I have my own spreadsheet as well. I want to give a look and make sure it's what, what finally, since I wasn't on FinCom anymore, if it's where they finally landed. But I'll pull a few things out of there for a little bit more detailed look. Those would be sort of the three pieces of homework I would spend time on, between now and our next meeting, to get yourself acclimated, and then hopefully we can get some information on on what the year one changes are, so we can start evaluating that, evaluating that. Unknown: So quick follow up question to save me stuff I did, start reviewing the Excel spreadsheet that was sent out. So presumably, that's your file, Brian. But so when there's like, big binary changes, I think was like the water department out in year 2030, or something, as a big spike, it like jumps, if I wanted to, you know, understand what was the driver behind that change. Would the warrant be the best place to go in those out years, or the details wouldn't be in there, probably where Tom Holder meets with you. He can explain right there. Jump. I mean, they're moving to the MWRA. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of construction, right there needs to be, believe, the existing system, new water tank, water mains, yeah. Elizabeth Lusky: And, I mean, I'm just, it's one of those where I'm like, okay, you know, obviously something's happening, and it was approved previously, so it's probably good things there. But just trying to educate myself Brian O'Herlihy: on, there is a, there is five years worth of detail, CIP information and spreadsheet that is, think it's on the website, on the FinCom web page. Kelly Lappin: It is. It's in the spreadsheet that I mentioned that I'm Brian O'Herlihy: looking at a number you can then go look at this spreadsheet. Maybe that's what you're going to circulate. Unknown: Yeah, that's what I envision circulating. But I would also say, sort of, to those of you are new, first, I would lay out all your questions, and I would guess, and I want to avoid open meeting law violations here, so not sending it out to the whole group to answer questions back and forth via email. But certainly we can all have our questions ready for the next meeting and in between, like as long as you stick to just one of us, right? I'm happy since I have probably the capital plan in ingrained inside of my eyelids. You can just give me a call and I'll I can talk you through the big stuff, like the water, what's going on with water, and then we can develop the detailed questions to bring tom Tom Holder in. But like the main story there is, connecting to the MWRA is what's causing that expect. I just reiterate, John, this is important. When emails go out, they have to be very limited in in members sending them out, and no members should be responding to an email that includes other a quorum of the rest of the members. So when in doubt just don't respond, or if really now you could just direct your question to the chair, but you have to be careful, because sometimes Brian will send out an email, or I might send out the draft minutes ahead of the meeting, which you're allowed to do, and ask you to review them so they come to the meeting and provide any edits at the meeting. Sometimes people will just hit Reply All instinctively or not knowing they've done it, and you just have to be careful. Brian O'Herlihy: So typically, I've gotten the habit, if I had send like the minutes out, Kelly sent an email out today in the same sentence as at the bottom of it, please do not reply all this email so that we don't have a technical violation. So you probably hear me from time to time raising these Open Meeting Law questions just because we really need to comply. Want to comply. And for those of you that haven't volunteered before. It's just a little bit cumbersome, because you want to ask your questions and be prepared. But unfortunately, Open Meeting Law is such that you're kind of confined as to exactly how and when you could do some of that. So that's my day one advertisement. Unknown: The other way, I tend to wait to deal with this so that we avoid that it's to BCC everybody, so that just put an email who it went to. But when you BCC that way, they can't hit Reply All by accident or instinctually have it go to everybody. Okay, I think we have a decent handle on timeline that's going to probably float. But I would also ask, I understand what the bylaw says and where we're shooting for in the future. But Michael, I think we need from you, right? The working back working by law says October 15, and if that's fine and good, and you know, you don't need anything before then going forward, we're good, but I just want to make sure you've got time right, because ultimately, we're making a recommendation to you, and then you're going to FinCom Correct?
Okay, Michael McCall: I will work with Brian Kelly Lappin: okay, Brian O'Herlihy: it wouldn't be bad for the record. I think my recollection is this issue came up because of the delay. We have to wait for the Attorney General to prove the bylaw that it was going to be unlikely that we could meet that deadline in the first year. It wouldn't be bad if you could send an email to the Chair saying, I understand that the bylaw requires you to have something to me by October 15. But given where we are this year, as long as you can accommodate me by doing such and such and then obviously next year, hope it won't be an issue. This will be two months, you know, starting two months earlier. Okay, so Okay, any more by large question, Kelly, either you or the town manager or attendee in the audience might know so in the by law itself, there's several references to different places, capital projects and capital improvements, and they're not, they're not consistently used in all places. And the one place that I believe was put in the bylaws as a way to control last minute requests. Unknown: Maybe one of the reasons is that no request for capital improvement appropriation shall be voted on a town meeting without it first having been reviewed by capital planning committee, and it uses capital improvement appropriation doesn't reference capital project appropriation. So my question was, Do either of you recall, in the discussion or debate on bylaw language, you know, use the building that you referenced earlier as an example? I, as an accountant, CPA, I wouldn't view it, if you acquire an existing building. I wouldn't view that as a capital improvement. If we buy raw land in some of this, we want to build that building on the raw land, building would be a capital improvement. Raw land would be a capital project. Mind you. CPA, view of it, but I don't, I don't want to draw that distinction. That's not one that scrutiny. Yeah. Case here, um, so because we were borrowing and editing on the fly, we had a good group of people, and we would make edits, and people might not have Yeah, said, Oh, you we serve in here, and somebody say a capital project, and probably didn't catch Kelly Lappin: we debated a lot of words. I don't remember us debating that different. Unknown: So in that context, then, just so we're clear, you did address the possibility of Michael to in addition to town and school capital projects, improvements that there might be, I don't know if you suggested maybe all situations, or there might be some situations where CPA projects might fall within the purview of this committee, such that they couldn't go to town meeting, without going we don't need an answer today, just I think we need to think about it. Brian O'Herlihy: Same with the enterprise funds, the Water Enterprise Fund, the Wastewater Enterprise fund. So for example, the $38 million long term water project that will be coming to town meeting in the spring. Does that need to be reviewed at this committee? And this committee needs to know it says we have to approve it or just review it, but it's been considered by this committee. Does that need to come a project like this, that it's an enterprise fund project, does that have to come before this committee? So I just need, I want to be sure that we're sure what what our authority is or isn't, what our responsibility is or isn't. Because probably those two projects, one for sure, is coming to town meeting and wouldn't typically be in the capital plan, it probably come forward as a separate article. And I don't know about the building discussion, Unknown: we can always get clarification Town Counsel, but I know one of the other things we thought about was, if an individual petitioner or a board of committee before their own article, that would be another way to catch it so that it didn't go before Town meeting without some type of review. So if somebody put something in the capital plan, our normal process, let's say I recall the intent being we may not be able right, but it may not prevent a committee from being able to bring a project, but that it at least, would ask that it come through so that you see it right and be able to opine on it. That's how I recalled it. But there were some because we talked about the fact we couldn't, we couldn't stop certain things, right? You couldn't stop a petitioner's article You can't stopr a petitioner's article, town counsel said, but Select Board could stop a article from a committee or board by not putting it in warrant Kelly Lappin: correct. Brian O'Herlihy: So, so I don't, I don't think my, my sense was we couldn't require a non board. committee are Petitioner from having to come before the committee. Kelly Lappin: Petitioner, for sure, Brian O'Herlihy: but the other boards and clean are expected, even if they try to go around the process of the capital planning process, they're expected and the filers, because they have their phone and put it before this committee. But we don't, we don't have the ability to say we've been saying we we recommend or don't recommend, I suppose, right? Kelly Lappin: But then ultimately, it's the Select Board that could say it never went before, it was didn't go before, or it didn't get recommended by it. So it leaves it to the Select Board. Brian O'Herlihy: And if it's a Select Board article, Brian Keveny: glad you said that Brian O'Herlihy: it's got to come before here, but they control whether, Kelly Lappin: yeah, they can. They can go against the recommendation, Unknown: I just make sure we have the plan versus all the what we've been spending time on. Then there's capital projects and possibly capital improvements that actually get put an award under a separate article, Kelly Lappin: understood Brian O'Herlihy: the size or Kelly Lappin: I think we're going to ask Brian that that we get clarification from town counsel. Yeah, and enough on that for today, because I do know we're now doing a great job this first meeting. Is chair. We're way behind Unknown: one clarification. This is really simple. What is the name of our committee that the appointment letter says it's Capital Improvement Planning Committee. We started the meeting today, starting into capital planning improvement committee. So what is the name of our committee? It's Capital Improvement Planning Committee. Capital, okay, capital, yeah, capital improvement, okay, the CIPC, okay, okay, so I'm going to move on. The next item was upcoming capital projects discussion about standing and upcoming capital projects was your vision there, Michael, because I know you put the agenda together to discuss what you already know about that's coming up, where, where the status of existing projects. So we worked on this. We weren't together. I, Kelsi and I put together some ideas. Wasn't sure if we would get you the spreadsheet in advance so that maybe we just have a high level overview of it. They got out this afternoon, but it was really a placeholder, so if we wanted to have a discussion about it, so I didn't have anything yet, okay to talk about happy to answer any questions. So I'm I think because people didn't have a chance to look at it, I think it makes sense for everybody to do that homework. I suggested there's one other thing I think that's not in there that we need for homework, which is the status of all the
capital projects, and not that that necessarily affects the new ones directly, but indirectly. It does, because if part of our evaluation of projects needs to be not only financial resources, but physical town resources, staff resources, to the projects, and that has to include an understanding of where all the things that have already been approved are in their life cycle, what resources they're using when we expect them to be completed. Kelly Lappin: So I know that's something. we've and I don't because I've been out of FinCom for a year I don't know where it landed, but I know it's something we started to make progress on. If you can share whatever the latest on that is with the committee, I appreciate it, because I think that's another item that's helpful for every committee members benefits. We've been in different places at different points in time in terms of how much of the stuff the town has already approved, what where it is, in terms of being done, we were way behind when I first came on FinCom. Lot of work was done to get caught up, and then Covid happened, and that threw a lot of projects into a delay for myriad of reasons, and so, you know, staff has been working hard to get things moving and closed out. So that's another piece of our evaluation. Is when we look at projects on the docket that we're going to approve, particularly for year one, are we approving projects that can move forward, or are we approving projects that aren't going to, you know, aren't going to move for a couple years because we're too busy finishing the stuff that's already in the docket, and that becomes important in terms of the financial resources are limited. We don't want to so we want to tie up financial resources ahead of the project actually being able to be done.
John Kliem: So do we do a true up on that annually or not at all? Is it kind of how often does that happen? Unknown: It, going forward? I think the anticipation was it would be trued up, not just annually at least, but continually right? But it's a work in progress at all times. Okay? Right as things are getting finished, it's being updated. So live, live document. How do we see other resources, the non expense side of it? How do we see the like, the FTE requirements? Is that somewhere else, or is that not planned? I would say that's more of like a kind of like an oral report sort of thing. And so I don't know if there's necessarily documents, but that's more of like fact finding from going to different departments that are championing those projects and just asking, what are the resources being taken by individual projects? So the opportunity as we send out the request for the long term planning for next year that we ask them to show bottleneck run planning, or something like just to say resources for the project they're asking for in their area. Yeah, it's a very good suggestion, John, I would tell you, I think there's probably work to be done on the information that we do request for capital projects. The CIP form needs an overhaul, for sure, and that's something we need to be adding, is clear understanding of the resources needed. Where those resources are coming from, right, whether they're internal, whether they're external, project managers and and also a sticking point over the years, what the ongoing needs are to operate, maintain, right going forward. And so some, some you think are pretty easy, right, that what they're going to need, and other things you know, use the example of this, the Community Center, the Council on Aging Community Center, right? One of the budgetary needs that had to be added into the budget as a result of that project upon completion, was that it needed, needs janitors, right? So I'm sure it probably needs more than that, but that wasn't there. But that aspect of the project as well. Not just what does it take to build it out or improve it? What does it take to actually operate?
John Kliem: We have the form? Can we send it out? Just for a quick review, before you send it out, Kelly Lappin: I can send out. I have an old one. Brian, it hasn't changed, has it? Brian Keveny: CIP, no. So that form has been it's kind of consistent with other towns. Has been changed. Watkins put in that expandable window and gives back and then you have the hidden columns that tie into the warrant. You know, they, there's a Michael McCall: most of which I don't they don't need Unknown: to drag it out. It's more of a, you know, we're asking everyone to touch it. Now it's, when do you think if this is approved, when would you plan to start it? You had the resources? Have you accounted for tariffs and inflation? I mean, those are the things I want to know if we're about to I don't know if we can always account for fluctuations in go into this
inflation. I mean, we do factor it in year over year. But one of the two things I want to mention, or three, actually, first one, Brad, I read the first line of the charge, and it calls it the capital planning improvement committee. So I was reading verbatim, and then the second line calls it to the Capital Improvement Planning Committee. So I'll have to get But a couple things, you know, the ex officio members include I'll have to get that fixed.
Michael, who's here, and Tom Holder, who's our DEP W director, and they've been leading the charge, along with the assistance of our assistant town manager, Kelsi, empowered to knock off those projects. And Kelsi has been working on maintaining the list through a third party software tool called Easy CIP, couple of things that we've worked on since right around the time Michael showed up, we're doing things. He's using a work order system that happened in here that's helping us to plan how we're using our resources. We commissioned a study with a third party to look at all of our facilities, a company called Onsite Insight. They were just coming back and doing some last minute work for us. They were out of the COA, the Council on Aging building, but they're going to give us our final report of all the building assessments. They looked at the envelopes and the buildings, the mechanicals inside, so we'll have an idea that we can look at and help us with that five year plan. In that five to 20 years, we also partnered with the schools to do an operation review of certain departments. One was facilities, and there was some internal departments. IT, human resources. We haven't received the final copy, but that's something that Michael's working on. There was, there was, you know, the structure inside of our facilities was not ideal when I arrived and when Michael arrived, we had the ability to share some resources with the school, and we're going to capitalize on that. And. And that's going to happen a lot with Michael working partnership with business office upstairs, so that we can work on these things in a more cost, effective and efficient manner going forward. But there was some organized chaos when we first showed up here, because there was people reporting to town and school, and it wasn't clear the hierarchy. And so he's working on that that will help us address, you know, a lot of these projects going forward, and tackle that backlog. So we've been working on these planning documents and having these outside reviews to help us reorganize inside so we can tackle a lot of these things. And it's because we've got a lot of good hires that have come out of the last few years that helping us do that.
John Kliem: So are we able to reach out to some of those people directly just to have some certain questions? Obviously, not in the group setting. Are we allowed to go directly to and have some conversations with them. Unknown: Yes, I I've always taken a position in the towns that I've worked in. It is never a problem asking staff questions and information. It's when people ask, try and ask them to to do tasks that's usually where I'd ask, come back for me, not that I think you would, but if you said, Hey, I think you should take project A over project D, and vice versa, and then I might say, run that through me, and then I'll have a conversation with Michael. But if you need information about certain projects, I wouldn't have a problem through reaching to key contacts sent out just so we don't have to someone to out
reach out to them. If you put together a list, John, of people, we can get you their email addresses. Kelly Lappin: Yeah, you should just, you should work through me as chair if you, if you want to reach out to somebody, just so that we're controlling the flow of information, I don't want to have three from people reaching out to Michael on the same stuff. We try and consolidate. Sure. Okay, all right, I want to talk about a couple of logistics things. So I'm on topic eight, which is topics not reasonably anticipated by the chair. Since I wasn't chair 48 hours ago, I wasn't reasonably interested. Unknown: Yeah, so rule number one. If you haven't already, you should be getting a town email, hopefully when you got sworn in by the town clerk. Everybody, everyone has, everybody's got their Town email. Please refrain from using personal email when you're doing business for the committee. It just it makes it much easier. If there's an open meeting, any sort of a request for information that it's in your town email. Brian O'Herlihy: Brian, just trying to provide helpful information at the outset here. So when you get on your town email, those that haven't been on before town system, in terms of storing messages, defaults to the so called conversations. And I know in the finance committee people were telling me they weren't getting my emails. I couldn't figure out why. And when it's stores in the conversation mode, it gets buried in a string of emails. So you can go in and I'll find email I send to the Finance Committee and send it to the rest of you. You can check the box to keep your file your inbox or your files chronologically, which I find are easier when you're looking for something. So I just, I'll forward an email, if that's okay with the chair. I can send it to you, and you can, Kelly Lappin: yeah, you can send it to me, and I'll send it out. That's one good tip. The other one is that there's another setting, and it's in the instructions that you would have gotten from the town, on your email, on focused emails, it tends the system, if you don't turn it off, tends to take things like zoom meetings and throw them in up in other so you won't see them in your in your inbox, they'll be in a folder called other you can turn that off. I recommend turning that off, or you'll miss the the meeting invites frequently. And then my question for Michael or Kelsi, Brian O'Herlihy: one more email. Yeah, helpful. Then and again, it's up to you. I have all my town email forwarding to my personal email because I don't want to necessarily have to go in all the time checking my town email, and so I'm constantly getting whatever hits my town email hits my personal email. So occasionally I might send something out with my personal email, but I always put a CC to my town email because the objective is to have all your emails saved on the panel server. But again, you can do whatever you want, but I'm just telling you over the years it's it's proven helpful. Unknown: I. On favorite. Kelly Lappin: My other question for either Kelsi or Michael is, I don't know if things have changed. I see Copilots in here now, so I know there's been some improvement in this. But is there any there didn't used to be? Maybe there still isn't. Maybe it's an open meeting law thing, a way to store, have a repository of files in the system, so that we're not living constantly in email forwards, right? So that we can have a folder of documents.
Unknown: We can talk to our new IT director to see if we could create something Kelly Lappin: we don't have it for any new SharePoint for what are the other committees do, Unknown: the Select uses Dropbox for their packets and such, but not our repository necessarily of information. It's more to transmit, or rather large packets because, you know, they can be up to 200 pages and three emails. So there's a school user about Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Google. They're on Google platforms, yes, and we're on Microsoft. Michael McCall: But I think the default with the Microsoft SharePoint create store stuff so we can find out the best, so that, yes, you're not emailing and re emailing yourself the same PDF 10 times. Yeah. Unknown: And also, when you email the updated version of the file, we can keep the current version of the right so that no one's out of sync on what the current version is, all right, if you can get back to me on that, that'd be helpful, because I've always been a frustration of mine on Town committees. Okay? And so the last thing I want to talk about, at least that I have, and then I'll ask the rest of you, is meeting times. Carol Martin: So not Unknown: a surprise, my preference is not to do them in the middle of the day, but at the same time, we have ex officio members, who are members of staff. So I don't want to always be asking them to be here in the evening, either. So are there like, kind of a shoulder time today? A personally, I had a meeting by 530 didn't know how we were going to be here, but I was looking for something folks needed to day for folks, unless we want to meet on Mondays, when we don't have select boarding meetings, because staff here until seven on Mondays. But that may not work for everybody FinCom meets on Mondays as well. But you know, if you did Mondays at five o'clock, it might not clash. Other things. The other the other issue, when we are finding the FinCom, there's correct me wrong color. There's limited slots for hybrid meetings. Yeah, we can only hold Kelsi Power-Spirlet: three consequent like three hybrid meetings that are running at the same Unknown: and there's only three days of the week that we can do them. One day, Brian O'Herlihy: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Kelly Lappin: Monday, Tuesday.Wednesday That's when we have our zoom coordinator, Brian O'Herlihy: just throw that out there.
Unknown: Okay, so I'm going to ask committee members if you have any preference or restrictions on dates and times so you do Brian O'Herlihy: whatever is fine with everybody else. What I'll say about staff is that odds are I'm usually here after four o'clock. So I don't mind attending if you pick a Tuesday or Wednesday, but I may not tell the other ex officio members, they have to be here at every meeting if you're going to be covered facilities or something. I might say, then we'll go ahead and ask him to show but I have no problem. 10 minutes Michael Faia: time to start a problem. So Bradford Carver: I can be flexible. I don't prefer Mondays. I prefer to stay away from Mondays, but, but I can be flexible. Elizabeth Lusky: I prefer to have it after, after hours, so five o'clock or after, yep, John,
Kelly Lappin: that's my preference. But Monday, Monday's the tough one, because Unknown: if, if no, just anyone out there, if you're trying to get more staff so we're staying low, I would say we try and get those selective we want to bring in so you're not bringing same staff. Monday is the test paper. But I could do that. That's That's not we ended up into account our our attendance at Select Board meetings as well on Mondays. That just might be a but Kelly Lappin: if we did Monday select boards, usually at 763, right? So what if we did like Monday? If everybody's okay with a Monday at five, which I don't that's not my preferred. My preferred is later, but I can do Monday at five at least gets it a little bit closer for staff. Michael Faia: Tuesday, my tmdcs are Tuesdays at seven, so it's seven o'clock that way after
Elizabeth Lusky: that seven also probably Carol Martin: works better Brian O'Herlihy: if you did Tuesday or Wednesday hybrid and you schedule the meetings, schedule a bunch of them ahead of time, at least staff wouldn't necessarily physically have to be here. They could, Kelly Lappin: they could do from home. You said pnbc is on Tuesday, Michael Faia: but that's sporadic at this point, big projects, so start up again. But I can, it's, it's a Kelly Lappin: moveable I'm gonna, I'm gonna say standing Tuesday at seven, if we can do that. And then Michael, to the extent we need to have staff in, we can always do pick, like I'm off that like to do staff, and we can certainly have folks participate in hybrid. Sorry, before Elizabeth Lusky: we say that your Tuesday meeting that's standing is Greg Lusky in that? Okay, so I can't do that because that's my husband and somebody has to do. But if you have to go at that meeting, then maybe we're fine anyway. Kelly Lappin: So, but is pmbc a particular is it every other week? Is it a month? Michael Faia: It's once a month, sporadic at this point, so we don't have anything big enough for them to actually weigh in, because we could do Kelly Lappin: Tuesdays, Tuesdays at seven, but take a look at that and make sure we're not coinciding with computer safe, yeah,
Brian Keveny: Tuesday at five, so people are waiting three hours. Any person Tuesday at five, we're
Kelly Lappin: Yeah. The problem is, my day is not usually over, but like, I can make it feel the difference and say six, yeah, we can compromise and do six. Okay, we're
going to try that we can always adjust if needed. And let's since today is Tuesday, let's do the first one two weeks from today, February
Carol Martin: 23 you can can't do Kelly Lappin: that. No, it's fresh or something. Oh, yeah, it is, yeah,
Unknown: okay.
Kelly Lappin: No, we could do, I could do next week? I mean, just to get us going. Unknown: Yeah, the problem is, is that we already have three zoom vibrant meetings, starting at six o'clock on 16th of I because I pulled it up the minute, because I just Bradford Carver: want to make sure it's just, but if everybody's here, does that matter? Unknown: If everyone's in person, that's fine. We can find you. I can probably find your room, yeah, because one of this is zoom only, so John Kliem: next Tuesday, Unknown: being here since 7am like, you know, ends at four. So similar people. The benefit of hybrid is, if you're having staff member come back in, Kelly Lappin: they can join right. What about Wednesday? The 17th, Unknown: at six, you could do six, yeah. So everybody check their calendars Elizabeth Lusky: Wednesday, the six, seven times and 17, yeah. Kelly Lappin: At six at work, yeah. Kelsi Power-Spirlet: Yep, it works. Okay, let's Bradford Carver: try that. In case you want to schedule a couple more beyond that, just to then start with our calendars and Brian Keveny: things. Yeah, Kelly Lappin: let's go back to let's see if we can do so Tuesday the 30. I'm Yeah. Tuesday September 30. Unknown: Council that, Tuesday September 30. Otherwise, yep, wide open, Tuesday September 30. Michael Faia: Okay, six, Carol Martin: 930 and six. Kelly Lappin: All right, let's start with that. Anybody and so I'm gonna go around the room about anything else you want to raise Bradford Carver: it. Thank you. Liz, Unknown: awesome. John, Brian, anybody on staff? Brian, Kelsi, Amanda, we can do I'm just trying to be mindful of their time too.
When we build agendas, maybe have any items that require some of the staff or the ex officiant members to your input, put those towards the front of the agenda. Yeah, I'm sorry I do have one quick follow up. So do we agree that the two Wednesday the 17th is that in person or hybrid? Hybrid perfect.
Kelly Lappin: I would want to always be hybrid, because I never know when Carol Martin: something might come up. Bradford Carver: So that one shall use the expectation, then everybody Kelly Lappin: will be hybrid, which is, I prefer to come in personally, because I think it's easier to talk, but I like to leave the hybrid option open. So that, folks, I mean, I travel for work, sometimes it just doesn't. Sometimes you have a kid at home and you can't leave. Carol Martin: So, yeah, up.
Kelsi Power-Spirlet: All right, Kelly Lappin: I get a motion to adjourn, Unknown: so moved second
Kelly Lappin: Yes, roll call vote to adjourn. Brian, yes. Tom, yes. Liz, yes. Brad, yes. Kelly, yes, we are adjourned at 429, I.
Conservation Commission
10-Sep-25 - Conservation Commission03:05:27
20-Aug-25 - Conservation Commission01:59:40
09-24-25 - Conservation Commission02:26:24
Sean Fair: Okay. let's play. All
right. seeing we've got a
quorum. It is 631 like to begin
the Conservation Commission
meeting for Wednesday. September
10. 2025. notices and agendas
being posted at least 48 hours
in advance of the meetings.
excluding Saturday. Sundays and
legal holidays. One may watch.
may watch. may participate
remotely with a meeting link
that can be found the following
link. pursuant to chapter two
the acts of 2012 2025 this main
will be conducted by remote
means. in accordance with
applicable law. This meeting may
be recorded to be made available
to the public and WayCAM as soon
after the meeting. That is
practical. With that said. looks
like we got Linda at Town
building. I see Barbara. how
Luke Legere at least opine and
Sean Fisher and myself. Sean
down remote with that. let's
begin the public hearing. This
is one. a 108 Lakeshore. Drive
DEP file number 322. dash. 1042.
is the continued Notice of
Intent file pursuant to waylands
wetlands and water resource
protection Bylaw and the
Wetlands Protection Act
submitted by Melissa Haley for
the prior unpermitted renovation
work and completion of said work
at 108 Lakeshore drive and
Wayland mass proposed work isn't
within 100 feet of Delta pond.
and the property is shown on
assessors map. 40 6b parcel. 35
Linda Hansen: Linda. the
applicant has requested to
continue to the next meeting.
Unknown: You do?
Sean Fair: Uh. Luke. would you
like to
Luke Legere: make? Yeah. sorry.
Linda. is that going to be
October one. Well. Emily. it's
the
Linda Hansen: 24th isn't it?
Yeah.
Sean Fair: 920. 24th
Unknown: okay.
Luke Legere: yes. I move that we continue the hearing under both the state act on chapter 194. to September. 24 after 6:30pm
Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. do I second? Thank you. Babs. quick roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa Aubin. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. Linda. Okay. on to 1b this is 397. Boston Post Road. It's known as Russell's DEP file number 322. dash. 1048. it's a continued notes of intent file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection Bylaw and the wells protection accident by Dan Sean for the after the fact of paving work and installation of stormwater management at 397. Boston Post Road and 99 Pelham Island Road and Wayland mass. the proposed work is with a 200 foot riverfront area under foot buffer zone of our boring. vegetative wetlands property has shown assessors. Map. 23 parcel. 004. and 015. Linda. I'll Linda Hansen: pass it off to Andy Irwin. I think who's representing the client on this project? Andy Irwin: Yes. good evening. Andy Irwin. 73 plain Road. Wayland. representing Russell's garden center. At our last meeting. we were asked to meet with Linda and go over what options we could consider to improve our plan. And we had that meeting. we listened. and we've submitted a revised design package. I could share my screen if they want me to show you the highlights of that. if I can figure out how to share. Is it under the More Emily.
Linda Hansen: you just if you move your curse around at the bottom. Andy Irwin: Sure. there we go. Yeah. so and sure people are seeing my screen now. yes. sir. okay with the plan. Namely. the plan is to reduce the total amount of paving. In particular. we have taken areas here on the western side. what was referred to as area B. and we've taken the areas within the 100 foot riverfront area and reverting those to pervious surface. so that includes the portion of Area B. all of this Parking Area C. we have also taken an area that was not part of the finding as far as work without a approval. but pavement that had been installed long. Long ago. and a portion of this walkway through the nursery area. approaching. but not quite all the way up to the 100 foot river front zone. changing that from pervious. impervious to previous surface. The other feature of our change was to make sure that we increased our collection of storm water to the treatment basin. And for that. we're installing a diversion berm across the driveway here on the left hand. West hand western side. left hand side of the screen. and that it will be a paved berm. sloped so that we can not kill cars. but gives us the containment of water. and it's on existing impervious. So we're adding no impervious with that installation. And then we have. you see this line here? This is be a small earthen berm. It's only need to be a few inches in terms of just making an affirmative collection of the water towards the treatment basement over here behind the nursery in the center. The modification of the basin is as it was. in terms of providing the adequate rate and quantity controls back to pre existing conditions. We have no significant change here in the we call the potting basin over more to the right. where we can have some water that sheds off that way. So we have no rate and quantity increase with that portion of runoff. And similarly. we had. over here to the right. the compensatory flood storage volume. So for the accounting of the areas by interval. we are providing full and in excess flood storage volume for that which was filled with the paving. we presented a complete. a updated hydraulic report. I don't know. Does anybody wants to go through all of that? I'll leave it if there are questions. But that is the nature of our project to restore conditions here at Russell's garden center. Sean Fair: Thank you. Appreciate it. Linda. start with you. please. You're on mute. by the way. just in case. Linda Hansen: Linda. no. A few questions regarding the riverfront alterations. So in the previous submittal. you had 200 or 2963 square feet of riverfront alterations. and 988 of that was in the first 100 feet. And your narrative says that capture you're talking now you're capturing drainage from 2600 13.000 square feet. So is that? Is that the operation in the 200 foot riverfront area? Andy Irwin: Then. yes. Linda Hansen: Okay. so why did that go up from the previous Andy Irwin: with the berm that goes across the driveway making making sure that we were catching portions on the pavement that increased our catchment area.
Linda Hansen: okay. but it catchment area. but not necessarily impervious area. correct? Andy Irwin: We're getting additional flow that's coming off of the potting area here further to the west. Okay. that now gets captured and and collected. But our. our alteration of the inner. inner 100 foot riparian zone is now reduced to where we are adding no new impervious. okay? Inner riparian zone. okay? And in fact. we are giving an additional area. And pardon me. oh. I just can't read it as far as two. It
Unknown: I think you just muted yourself. Well. you just Sean Fair: muted yourself there. Andy.
Andy Irwin: okay. so we pardon me. so we have actually reduced and an additional 250 square feet of pervious area in the inner riparian zone with the proposed plan. Linda Hansen: Well. for permitting purpose. can I get a final value of the total riverfront alteration? Then. is that? Because what you're giving me here is 2613 that used. You're calling that the drainage area. yes. but what. what I'm going to need for the permit is. is River. total riverfront alteration. which now looks like it's all outside. It's in the 100 to 200 foot area. right? Yes. okay. because I don't see that in here. unless I miss that. Andy Irwin: I will integrate that area for you. And okay. Linda Hansen: and then and more on numbers in one section of your report. you state that. let's see this is under water quality. Yes. you say you modified stormwater basin would be constructed and will raise the elevation from 115 to 116 and we'll have an approximate storage of 1032 cubic feet. Is that an additional volume? Because. then. because earlier you say in page. what is it? One that the nursery storage basin will increase from approximately 7300 to 8100. and the greenhouse will increase from 3600 to 4450. but that's. is that. again. what you're presenting in one is just? Is that an increase. or is that the total? Andy Irwin: I think so. Part of that is the total as far as the areas of those basins. So
Linda Hansen: what you have in four does not necessarily match what you have on page one. So that's why I just. I was just asking. Okay.
Andy Irwin: I do not have that number at my fingertips. That's all I can. Certainly follow up with you on that. And that basically areas the change versus the total of the basins. Yep.
Unknown: Okay. Linda. anything else. Linda Hansen: yeah. I mean. I. I've looked at your. your flood. compensatory flood. compensatory flood. volume. But again. without. I. you know. I just. I guess I. it looks good. I didn't get. I didn't have a chance to do really in depth review of that. But as far as I can tell. that's that should be good again. We. you know. I'm not looking at the hydro cat at this point because I the ability to do that. Andy Irwin: But we have provided the incremental quantities. as far as the compensatory flood storage areas and volumes over here on the left of the page. Linda Hansen: yes. it's in the narrative also. okay.
Sean Fair: Linda. from your end. I'm good commission. thoughts. comments. questions.
Luke Legere: concerns. Yes. I'll jump in. I appreciate the reduction in the impervious certainly. anytime we're talking storm water. I guess you know. Linda. I just want to make sure you're comfortable with what you're seeing. That it all I think it all makes sense. It doesn't seem like this is a massive new stormwater management system or anything like that. but just make sure you're comfortable with this. Wouldn't want to have a peer review or anything like that? Linda Hansen: Well. we did vote to have a peer review for the last meeting. and then they made these changes. So I think that that's a decision the Conservation Commission still needs to make about pursuing a peer review. I mean. from what I can tell. I guess Andy can weigh in this too. It looks like it's designed for a 10 year storm. It has the capacity for a 10 year storm. The beside. other than that. I think everything would probably discharge to the pond. that small pond on the east. or the west of the of the parking area. is that correct? Andy Irwin: That is. there is portion that will discharge there. I will note that that pond is not the river itself. We pointed out that that that is a an isolated water body that doesn't have a direct connection to the low flow channel of the stream. There was someone had asked that question. and I covered that in my narrative.
Luke Legere: And I'm assuming Linda. forgetting this off the top of my head. I'm looking in the materials now. but this is all previously degraded riverfront. We're talking about here. yeah. being familiar with the site. I imagine that would have to be the case. Yeah. Linda Hansen: My calculation is it's about 60. Five to 69% altered already the riverfront area. existing buildings and parking areas and everything. So it's. it's really not changing that much. I mean the by obviously adding. adding pavement changes things. but it's already been degraded with. you know. as a gravel parking area prior to that. Unknown: So. yeah. historically. right?
Luke Legere: Okay. yeah. I don't really have any other questions beyond that. I guess maybe it's just worth the commission considering whether we still think a peer review is necessary. or if we're comfortable with with this ourselves. right? Sean Fair: So let's come back to that real quick. the peer review piece. commission. Anybody else have any thoughts. comments. questions. concerns. before we circle back to that question and bring that up?
Unknown: We're good. I Shannon Fischer: think so. I think the only thing I want to just make sure doesn't get fall completely off the radar is that. I think in one of the first iterations of the plans. There was a seed mix proposed. and it had some non native seeds in there. And I think we just want to make sure that whatever is put down is is going to be native. especially on that. you know. anywhere we're planting new to to catch water.
Linda Hansen: Okay. Oh. I do have one last thing. I didn't notice this before. Andy. but you say no changes were made to EDA two or PDA two. Can you point that out in the plan? Because I must be blind. but I didn't see that letter that's on the first page of the letter. It is. I
Andy Irwin: uh. this was the existing drainage Linda Hansen: area. You're referring to drainage Okay. yeah. Andy Irwin: So those are the drainage areas. As far as drainage area. this was existing. and if you notice the area on the left increases. that's the surface area that is increased in terms of catchment with this.
Linda Hansen: Okay. no. it just says changes were made to this. and I didn't know what you would refer to those Okay. existing and versus the proposed. I get it. Andy Irwin: Okay. sorry for all the scrolling there. people. Nope. you're good. Fish. Sean Fair: Anything else. we're good to go back. circle back to Luke. So now we need to talk about. do we need a peer reviews of Linda? I guess I'll start with you. just on your overall thoughts. comments. opinions on that. and then we can kind of kick off the mission. Linda Hansen: I mean. I think we had a productive meeting. Andy and I did. and he did address all my concerns and pulled everything out of the 100 feet. which I think is important. I think that's one area that. you know. the state really wants us to protect the riverfront. and he's picking up. he's picking up a lot of the runoff from that again. I just don't have the ability to review a hydro CAD plan because I just don't have the software. I don't have the background for this. the engineering. you know. background for this. So it's up to the Commission decide whether or not they feel that's important to have that reviewed. Sean Fair: Got it? Thank you. Commission ever kind of know what we're being asked or think about real quick. And if there are no question about that. I'll speak last we build a thought comment concerned on whether or not we would like to see a peer review on that.
Luke Legere: Well. I guess I'm somewhat on the fence. I think. you know. as I alluded to earlier. I think the changes that have been made are certainly for the better. I feel a lot more comfortable with what we're looking at now than what had been proposed previously. But to Linda's point. you know. I think when. when we start getting into heavy duty engineering. given the proximity to the river. I guess I'm. I don't. I don't want to be overly harsh in terms of requiring a peer review. but I also want to make sure everything's going to work the way it's designed and supposed to. And I just doesn't seem like there's anybody on our side of the table who's able to really definitively weigh in on that. so I'm tending to lean in favor of having this peer reviewed. but curious to hear what everyone else thinks. Unknown: Okay. thanks. Luke. Thoughts. Shannon Fischer: I think I'm really with Luke. I'm on the fence like these are good changes. but this is so far outside of the area certainly my expertise to to know for sure where the where the waters are going. Yeah. I'm with Luke. Andy Irwin: May I just offer some commentary. just in terms of observation. That these basins are existing. we are adding a very. relatively percentage wise. small area of impervious to this area. It's not like we're doing a new development with. you know. new stormwater basins. And will they work to that extent. you know. the proportion of increase to these basins as you look at relative to the percentage of impervious increase it. it's in that magnitude that just in terms of. I'm not telling you not. but I'm just saying we're giving that area. we're giving that treatment with what we're doing. So from that standpoint. it is. in proportion. not as drastic as many other sites where we're having a new development with. well. what and how will the runoff work? This is runoff that has been basically flowing through this path. We're just making the additional accommodation for rate with the additional size of the basin and in the degree of infiltration in those basins as well in terms of retention.
Sean Fair: Thanks. Commission. Other thoughts or before I plan.
Luke Legere: got okay. I appreciate those comments. Thank you. Mr. When I think it kind of it sort of back to my original point there. I don't. don't want to make a mountain out of Mohawk with this. but I also just want to make sure we're getting it right. so I still sort of landing in the same place. Yep. Shannon Fischer: Is there a middle ground of like. no. a quick review that just kind of checks things. but isn't a huge. expensive affair. Like. is there a way that we could get the review and not add a ton of expense and time? Sean Fair: I mean. at this point. if we not to weigh in. yeah. but if we were to give them a ask for a peer review. we're asking that peer review to design something for us from score Azure. It's Hey. check our math. Here we go. Is there anything we're missing? So in terms of time for peer review. I wouldn't imagine it wouldn't be as much as some of our other things we've asked to have reviewed or designed or whatever else. That's Linda. is that fair? You're on mute. Linda. you're talking speaking.
Linda Hansen: I mean. typically. our scope. so we're always. you know. compliance with the chapter 193 bylaw. which is our stormwater bylaw. You know that we. that we use. you know. that's. that's everybody has to comply with who's doing stormwater management. But you know. you know. we can. we can scale down the scope a little bit to say. just. just take a look at the calculations and tell me if business is going to work right. Sean Fair: Yep. Anybody else in the Commission have any thoughts before I went? So I guess I I'm with Luke and Shannon. and especially Shannon. the most recent point is. I don't want this to be a ton of work. I don't want to be arduous. Just a real quick check our math with such a nice resource right there. I'd hate to have a whoops of Daisy. We missed math mistake like. you know. a year from now. so I'd be in favor to have a quick as possible peer review. just to make sure we're on the same page. If we get that kind of helps solidify our thoughts on our end. So that's kind of where I am. So base commission. Any other thoughts. comments. thoughts. opinions. concerns. Before we go to vote on this. look for Unknown: being being new. You know. I would like to take the more conservative route. So since several of you are saying it might be good to have a peer review. and if it can be ratcheted down. I think that would be good. And I. even though this is my first official meeting. I've dialed into a few of the previous meetings where Russell says presented. and I I can see that they've been working very closely with Linda and coming back with them with solutions. So. you know. we appreciate the cooperation. but I would agree. I think if we can do a ratcheted down peer review. that sounds good. Awesome. Sean Fair: Thanks. Lisa. Okay. So that's where we're looking. or leaning commission looking. then for a motion to that effect.
Luke Legere: So just. I think we had. Linda. you said this earlier. I think too. right. we had. we had previously voted to have this peer reviewed? Yes. So do we need another vote? Do you need us to vote just to limit. to try to limit the scope to as narrow a review as possible? Linda Hansen: Well. not necessarily. I mean. I can work with Andy offline just coming up with a sort of a ratcheted down scope of work and maybe elicit potential peer reviewers and see if they have. A conflict of interest with any of them and and then we can move forward at that point. Sean Fair: So. so we're looking for that is usually looking for. basically a motion to continue. In the meantime. work with Andy to get the peer review started. Does that make sense? Yeah. So make sure you're what motion looking for. So we're looking for a motion to continuance. and you work with Andy the period. Got it Luke Legere: Okay. all right. We. I guess the question is. Mr. Irwin. do you want us to continue this to the next meeting. which is only a couple weeks out? It seems unrealistic to me that this Andy Irwin: I was. I was going to ask Linda's thoughts about the timing of getting such a review limited though it may be. my sense has been that the reviewing firms have been very busy. such that one meeting out would probably not give us enough time. Linda Hansen: Yeah. we have the meeting schedule a little bit condensed this month to two weeks. because normally do three weeks because of holidays. we were trying to. you know. you know. schedule things so that we're missing Thanksgiving and Columbus and all these other weeks and school vacations and stuff. Andy Irwin: So then in October. the Emily. Linda Hansen: When's our meeting in October.
Unknown: give me a second.
Carole Plumb: I think it's the Unknown: second week in Linda Hansen: October. I should have it here too. So. Unknown: October 8. October 8.
Luke Legere: Okay. October 8. Does that sound reasonable? Mr. Andy Irwin: Owen. let me just I don't know. I'm not I can't see if Tim and Dan are on. Unknown: yeah. we're here. That works for me. Does that work for you? Checking. okay. perfect. Yeah. looks like I'm open. Andy Irwin: Okay. that works for us. Thank you. So with that. to allow the commission to do the conduct the peer review. we're okay with the continuance to the October 8 meeting. Luke Legere: Okay. thank you very much. Then I would move that we continue this hearing to October eight after 6:30pm
Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. To hear a second. Thank you. Babs. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa Auburn. yes. by the way. Jenny Brown came on the middle of this as well. Jenny Brown. yes. thank you. And Sean fair is a yes. all set. Thanks. folks. We'll see you in a couple few weeks. Okay. thank you. You got it.
Unknown: Okay. moving along Sean Fair: onto 1c this is 169 rice road. Linda. do we have a DEP number here? I do not. Carole Plumb: There is. it's 1053. Linda Hansen: oh. it just came on. Okay. yep. 53 Sean Fair: Okay. so this is 169 rice road DEP file number 322. dash. 1053. this is a Notice of Intent file pursuant to Wayland wetlands and water resource protection by law and the Wetlands Protection Act submitted by Saint fellow patter. Saint mercurious and Saint Mina Coptic. or Orthodox Church for the work at 169 rice road and Wayland mass. The proposed work includes a demolition of existing church and construction of three new buildings. parking surfaces. a courtyard. a sports field and storm water management systems. The project is in with a 200 foot riverfront area and the 100 foot buffer zone of a boarding vegetative wetlands property is shown on assessors map 40 parcel 08. Linda. Linda Hansen: I believe we have Andrew presenting for the for the applicant. Is that correct? Unknown: Yes. it is correct. And actually. before I kick this off. we have quite a few members of the project team who I believe are on this call as attendees. if we would be able to promote them to panelists. We have our architects. our engineers. our landscape architects. everybody's with us to present their pieces. okay?
Linda Hansen: SEAN MALONE is one of them. Is Unknown: that right? Yep. SEAN MALONE is our engineer. We have. Can you move this over? It might be easiest if they raise their hands. because they actually Linda Hansen: have quite a few of them. Yeah? What they raise their hands might be easier. Yeah. yeah. Unknown: instead of making you play name tag. thank you. Yeah. Do
Sean Fair: I miss anybody? I.
Linda Hansen: There's somebody called SP I don't
Sean Fair: see anybody with their hands in there. Missing anybody.
Unknown: I'm Sean lane and representing DSK. the architects. text.
Sean Fair: Okay. we all set everybody else needs to be on on here. Unknown: Andrew. I believe so it looks like we have people from all parties here. So if there's anybody else. they can raise their hands. But I believe we're good to go. Um. I believe it was Sean Lennon. intent just to kick this off briefly. and then we'll all be happy to share our pieces with the Commission. Yeah. Good evening. everybody. I'm Sean lane and from Studio DSK. and just want to thank you for the opportunity to present the project. I wanted to present our team who is joining us tonight. I have Andrew. of course. from Goddard. I have Sean Malone from Oak consulting. and then also Naomi Cottrell and Caitlyn vend van de meelb from Crowley. Cottrell landscape architects.
our goal with the design of the project has been basically to create a campus that reflects the traditions of the Coptic Orthodox Church. and we wanted to be sensitive to the surrounding neighborhood and the landscape. As you may know about this site. it slopes from Rice road up to Turkey Hill. And what we've done is we've tucked essentially three buildings into the hillside. And the first building. which will be in a phased construction. it will be the church. There is a second building that should follow about three to five years after. which is essentially a recreational building with classrooms in it at one end. and then the there is a another annex to that. which also has classrooms and a senior housing portion in the third building would be the diocese building.
The design that we have come up with essentially works with the topography in that it sits in against the hillside. and it does have some. some tall towers on the church. which we were trying to be sensitive to the Turkey Hill neighborhood by keeping it at the lowest point when the site's complete. Basically. we want it to feel like it is. It's been there. and in that it fits in and compliments. you know. the architecture. We realize that there's a stream on the opposite side of of rice road. and the setbacks reach across the road. and we do have parking that sits in the setback area. We have maintained the the trees that are in that zone. and we have shifted the driveway there is. there are two driveways off of rice road right now. One is a two way that is considered the main driveway. And I believe that's 28 feet wide. There was a driveway off of the existing property onto Turkey Hill. That one has been eliminated. and it has been moved over to the north end of rice road on the site. And that is a one way. It's for exiting the property. and you can only turn right out of that. heading north on on rice road. That's essentially it. I would like to turn it over to Andrew to essentially go over the wetlands. and if we have any other questions. I'm available to to answer.
Perfect. Thank you. Sean. can the commission see my screen? Okay. yes. perfect. So what we see here. I'll start off with the existing conditions plan that was filed as part of the Notice of Intent. So as Sean has described. this property is currently in use and developed as as the Orthodox Church. This lot is about five and a half acres. so the the bottom half is is fully developed. As noted. there are three driveway entrances that come in from Rice road. There's existing parking our church building. And a playground at present. and the remainder of the lot slopes up gradient toward Turkey Hill Road. So we have no wetland resource areas that are actually present on this lot itself. Most notable that the commission would have seen in the Notice of Intent filing. when you review the maps of the property. there is a map potential vernal pool that comes up in the area of my cursor here. actually directly adjacent to where you guys would see test bed 11. It was mapped as a potential vernal pool on the the aerial photography by mass mapper. So May of this year. during vernal pool season. our wetland scientists went up to the property just to take a look at it. We confirmed that in this area there are actually no wetland resource areas at all. It continues to slope up gradient right off the parking lot all the way up. There's no evidence of hydro soils. leaf standing. certainly no vernal pool activity. Our best guess is that there's a shadow that can be seen on the aerial and that can get picked up at times as a potential vernal pool. So we did submit a report to the commission that assessed that area and made sure that that was discussed. The resource areas that we do have are all across the street. so rice road bisects the property from the resource areas. Once you cross over rice road from our property. it becomes a very steep slope. So we have quite a steep embankment that changes at least 10 feet in grade. And right at the toe of a slope is a border and vegetative wetland system. And further interior to that is a perennial stream known as snakebrook. So because these resource areas are across the street. the bylaw no disturb zones under Chapter 194 do not reach this property. And neither does the 100 foot inner riparian zone that we could see on my cursor right here. It ends through rice road before it reaches our subject site. And so what we are dealing with on this property is the 100 foot buffer zone that we see on my cursor here that clips the edges of the property and the 200 foot riverfront area that comes through portions of the existing parking lot and some of the driveway entrances. So I will give a brief overview of the proposed conditions of the project. I know Sean did a good job explaining in a bit more detail the intentions of the project. but the project intends to propose three new buildings through an expanded redevelopment that redevelops portions of the site that are currently developed. as well as expanding the development up into the hillside of the property. So the intent is to construct three new buildings on the property through a three phase development plan with new driveways. parking surfaces. a sports field. courtyard and a stormwater management system. So as Sean had mentioned. this is phased through three phases. So phase one consists of all of the work that is within the 100 foot riverfront area. or the 100 foot buffer zone and the 200 foot riverfront area. So phase one includes building a. which is the new church building itself. the reworking of the parking surfaces. utilities. stormwater management. the athletic field. septic so the main site work. the main infrastructure and building a. all are under phase one. Phase Two includes the construction of Building B that we see here that's to be used for a proposed Youth Center. Sunday school and senior housing. That building is located outside of the 100 foot buffer zone and the 200 foot riverfront area. as can be seen. And phase three is the construction of Building C. which is intended to be used as the diocese center. and it's also outside of all of the jurisdictional buffer zones and the riverfront area for the property. So as we had outlined. we are proposing to construct new driveway entrances into the property. reducing from the three that come in and exit from various sides to two. So this figure that we see here was included as part of the Notice of Intent. And what it does is it highlights all the existing impervious surface cover within the riverfront area and the newly proposed and so it helps us come up with our riverfront area graphics. And so what we are determined was that this yields about a 913 square feet of increase of impervious surfaces within the riverfront area. it doesn't move closer than existing conditions. because rice road bisects the property. and we have existing driveways that come from Rice road. We aren't moving any closer to the river. but there is an increase in the impervious surface footprint within the riverfront area. and so under riverfront redevelopment standards. we would have to provide mitigation attitude one ratio for doing so. And so as part of the Notice of Intent. the Commission received an invasive species and mitigation planting plan that Goddard prepared. So what we had done is. because this lot is primarily developed within the riverfront area. under 310. CMR. 10. five. 8g we looked for off site opportunities to restore the riverfront area. and we found about a 4000 square foot section up gradient of the river itself. consisting of the wetlands in the buffer zone where it's pretty densely vegetated with invasive species. primarily species like glossy buckthorn. oriental bittersweet species of that nature. And we propose to hand remove those species and replant them with native. Vegetation. So that 4000 square feet is a bit over a four to one ratio of mitigation to the increase in impervious surfaces that are generated by the project. So at a high level. that's the overview of the project. We also have our engineer Sean Malone. and we have our landscape architects as well. who are going to discuss their pieces. So I'm happy to kick it over now to Sean to discuss the stormwater side of the project. All right. thank you. Andrew. and let me see if I can share my screen here.
Okay. I'll be brief. Just wanted to give everyone a brief rundown of the storm water and what we were looking at on site and what we're proposing to deal with the storm water. Currently. the site sheds down to Rice road. and we identified three kind of distinct sub catchments. This first sub catchment draining over towards the entrance from Turkey Hill Road. which then flows to this catch basin in rice road. a second sub catchment that flows down the center of the site. down the main entrance to this catch basin. And then there's a high point in rice road about here. where it splits north and south. so a third sub catchment goes to the south into this catch basin here. So what we wanted to do is to make sure that we design a storm water system so as not to increase the flow to any any of these catch basins. So the overall site proposes approximately three acres of new impervious area. And what this plan shows is the post development sub catchments. And as you can see. there's several. We have three in the pre development. and we have about. I think. 10 or 12 in the post development here. So what this represents is where we've broken into smaller drainage areas where they're picked up by deep some catch basin basin to provide pre treatment. And then all of this area. with the some small exceptions I'll point out in a moment. drain to a subsurface infiltration area underneath the sports field. this proposed sports field here. and second subsurface infiltration area underneath the parking lot here. and what these areas are going to consist of is large diameter. two foot or three foot. perforated HP. HDP pipe surrounded in stone. And to ensure that these systems would work. we did about 14 test pits out there. We dovetailed this with the test pits we did for the new septic system. and we found that the soils in these areas are nice gravels. very coarse sands. All the perk tests that we did out there were. I think. three or four minutes or less. Some were less than two minutes per inch. So we're going to be able to drain these this site and the new impervious to these infiltration areas and get that storm water back into the ground. The only areas that I mentioned that are not being captured by this new storm water system is this area here. three A. which is existing wooded area that's remaining. This area three or two a. which is same situation. existed wooded area to remain. and then the area of the grass sports field. So the net effect of all this is we're going to see a net reduction in both the rate and the volume of stormwater to Rice road. And this reduction is going to be significant. We're looking at 75 to 85% reduction in the rate and volume of stormwater coming off this site. So we also have included in our submission. construction. erosion. sedimentation controls. We have a erosion control notes and details sheet. so we think that we meet all of the requirements of the chapter 193 with this storm water and sedimentation control plan. With that. I'd like to turn it over to Caitlin and Naomi to talk a little bit about the landscaping and trees on site.
Hi. I'm Caitlin with credit cultural and let me just share my screen. You. Okay. so I'm just going to talk about the planting plan. This line is showing the 200 foot buffer for the riparian zone. and you'll see that the largest density of plants is within that zone. We're following the requirements of chapter 194 and meeting those requirements primarily through large deciduous shrubs as well as evergreen trees and large canopy trees. We think that this will help to buffer the development from this road. as well as help with any runoff that occurs as far as the rest of the site that is under Chapter 193 and we are actually exceeding the requirements. As far as planting. we're strategically having the planting primarily their canopy. trees along the perimeter. as well as shrubs along some of these steeper slopes on the edges. in order to help with erosion. And in general. we're just trying to block the building as much as we can from any of the adjacent sites. You'll see that in our submission. we have numerous tables showing how we're calculating all the tree replacement requirements. And I can answer any questions on that if you have them. But all of our replacements are all native plants. and. yeah. that's about it.
Sean Fair: Okay? Thank you. Um. Luna. we'll start with you. please.
Unknown: Linda. you're muted. You're on mute. Still on mute.
Linda Hansen: Oh. mouse is not working. sorry. beginning with this site inspection report. Do you have a wetland report. or is it just just a site inspection report. Unknown: So at this point there is just a site inspection report. The off site wetlands were delineated by dillis and Roy. who did the survey and wetlands work on the off site portions. So we can reach out to them to provide a report. and if the commission wants. we can also. if that's not available. we can come up with an additional one. but at this point we just have the site inspection report for what's actually report for what's actually on Linda Hansen: our property. Yeah. there's no dates here when. when the wetland was delineated. or the riverfront was and that's that's important to know whether or not it was. you know what time of year. when. if there was a drought. things like that. Okay? Because I'm seeing that anywhere. I guess I'm missing it. Unknown: It may not be on the plans. and we can have that added. It was this spring. because they did it around the same time as we inspected the the potential run pool area. but we can absolutely have that added to the plans and request that the report be given to the Commission as well. Linda Hansen: Okay. so then I have a question about the butter notification. You have a letter in here for a better notification. You know. the standard template that we have. typically. I'm looking for it. and I don't know was that sent out. because what we received was something completely different. Was just more a letter from the church saying. Dear community members. Welcome. Please come. you know. and with a meeting date of September 3. is that was that something different? Unknown: Yes. that would be a different notification that they had sent out to members. The notification of butters that you see there was sent out by by our office. and we have sent over the scans today. So yes. two different notifications. that both were received by by everyone in in just to clarify. Linda. I think that second notification that you were referring to was something the church reached out to the community members to introduce the project. And they did that. I think it was last week they met with their their neighbors. Linda Hansen: Okay? We did not get notification. So. so I missed. I'm guessing they. I mean. you sent me the receipts that you sent these out. It looks like they were done on August 27 but it's kind of odd that we didn't conservation. did not get there about a notification. Unknown: So. yeah. you do. I'll. I'll check into that.
Linda Hansen: See what else under. under table as part of your narrative. we talk about the wetlands or the different regulations. you state that there's a 913 square foot increase on page. let me think page 13 at the bottom. the project will result in a 900 square foot increase in impervious as a result. Yes. that is. I'm assuming you're talking in the riverfront Unknown: Yes. within the riverfront area itself. just for that was for wetlands jurisdiction. Chapter 194. would have a much different measurement. Or 193 I should say. I apologize. Linda Hansen: yeah. But then on the Notice of Intent. on page three. you say the increase is 753 Yes. it is.
Unknown: It is 913 within the riverfront area. So we'll make sure we clarify that. Linda Hansen: Okay. so what is the percent of alteration in the riverfront area? Then
Unknown: I can see if we have that on the plans. I'm not sure if we have the total riverfront area coverage on site calculated. It may be within that graphic I shared earlier. I'll take a look right now. And if we. if we don't have that available right now. then that's a calculation that we can absolutely provide to the commission. Okay? Linda Hansen: And one last thing is used an old bylaw filing fee for chapter 194 that's been since updated. I think was that last year. So I'm not sure where this came from. but all the new information should be on our website. Perfect. Unknown: Yeah. I think we had another project with you guys today that triggered that as well. And I think because we work with you guys a lot. we have databases of a bunch of the towns and their old files. so we'll just have to update that. So I apologize if that was an old Linda Hansen: one. Yeah. okay. because that that that that won't be accurate. Unknown: Yes. yeah. exactly. So we'll more view that with you. and I'll make sure you have everything updated. Linda Hansen: Okay? And
again. with Unknown: where was. Can you.
Linda Hansen: can you give me the numbers again. for the stormwater. for the replacement? Is there a table that was done at some point? Is that on the plan. I think Unknown: it might have been on the schedule that Caitlin had pulled up Linda Hansen: the landscape plan.
Unknown: Yep. just Linda Hansen: want to make sure the numbers match. because the numbers in here say something of 400 and some trees. Is that right? I will let
Unknown: our landscape architects confirm. I believe that there was somewhere around. like you said. 400 removed from the site in total. much less within the buffer zone. And then they detailed compliance with chapter 194 and chapter 193 replanting in their landscape schedule. Shannon Fischer: I think it's closer to 500 something Linda Hansen: trees. is it? Yeah. I thought. so. um. so. yeah. yeah. those are retaining walls in the back. And I mean. because it looks like you're doing some substantial grading. right in order to to take the slope out. Unknown: yes. there'll be retaining walls that actually constitute the building foundations back there on the east side. Okay. okay. and part of that is a requirement from the fire department to have a fire lane around the back of the building. So that's requiring us to moderate the slopes in the back a little bit. Linda Hansen: And did you have you? Have you received any approvals from the Board of Health for the septic system? Unknown: No. we've just made that formal submission this week. so we expect there will be a few weeks before. um. we get any comments back from Darren. Linda Hansen: Okay. Oh. it's good planting plan. okay. yeah. because I think. I mean. we're talking about doing a peer review. a joint peer review. with the planning board. conservation and Board of Health. and I don't know when. what the how the timing should work for that. it's always good to see if the Board of Health has any changes to the septic system. because that might modify. you know. locations of things. And I'm not sure what the planning board is discussing. either. So at some point. I guess we should. probably should get together to figure out the timing on that. Sean Fair: But so when real quick to hop in. help me understand that the playing board and and Board of Health just got the submission as well. So this is not been approved or amended at all by them. this plan that we're looking at right now. Linda Hansen: Yeah. I think the Board of Health just either received it. I think it received it Luke Legere: today. right? Or. Yeah. yesterday. I think. yeah. but Unknown: they haven't really had a chance to look at it. But to your question. Mr. Chair. yes. you guys are have kind of been our first stop. The way that schedules have worked out. We haven't had a formal discussion with the planning board yet. Linda Hansen: I thought they were meeting tonight to discuss something. Was that just to take a. Vote in the peer review? No. I don't know. Okay. well. I saw they were meeting tonight. and I thought that was on the. on the. on the agenda. So. okay. Sean Fair: Luke. I guess to that point and I'll shut up. I guess I'm missing. How do we conservation have a peer review if we don't know what the final. I mean. I can't imagine what we're looking at now is going to be anywhere. It's gonna be amended somehow before it comes to us. So I guess the peer review. are we saying? What inland. in your mind. if. what would we what would we would be approving today. if the Board of Health is just looking at it like we're authorizing you to work with the board of health and planning to get a peer reviewed for us to then take a look at and then modify again. Linda Hansen: so the peer review conservation would be strictly stormwater review. And that's planning board. I think we need the same thing. They would need a stormwater review for part of their site plan review. Again. the plan is on vacation this week. so I haven't had really had the ability to speak with them about the process. but I think at some point we do need to have that conversation about what the process and timing of that's going to be. And I mean. the scope of work. I think. has been decided. However. I again. you know. if there's. if there's any changes to the septic. or the location of the septic. or anything else that could also change the location of the storm water management systems. you know. you know. they're all intertwined in this. So maybe the best thing to do is wait for the town planner to get back and we can figure out what the process is. At this point. it's just a matter of taking a vote that we would. you know. we're. we'd like to pursue a stormwater peer review for this project under for conservation.
Sean Fair: I mean. I guess just. it just seems early in the process. We've never done this before. this early. where we're Board of Health. US and Tom planning get all the same. That's what vote would you like us to get? To give you is. in the next month. start up peer review on a plan that we haven't
Linda Hansen: seen well. I mean. again. we have a plan. It's just a matter of whether or not Sean Fair: we've never seen it before. like the board of Board of Health. with this many trees going down. this much storm water. that much impervious. and it's most septic. I can pretty much guarantee what we're looking at now is gonna have to change again. not without even seeing what zoning or playing and Board of Health is gonna do. So this is. it's unusual. I guess I'm curious why we are the first stop. if nothing else. we gotten. So again. commission. weigh in. I feel like I'm I guess I'm confused. Why so many unanswered things? What are we actually voting on today? Luke Legere: I mean. I understand what you're getting at Sean. I think maybe another way to say this. So the way I'm thinking of this is. it's a. we're looking at basically a hypothetical project right now. which is surely going to change. So I guess. I guess if the well. and with that said. clearly. this is going to need a peer review. right. clearly. So I guess it's going to be a matter of expense for the applicant. because that's probably going to be an awfully expensive peer review. because it's probably gonna have to be multiple rounds of review. would be my expectation. But So at any rate. yeah. I hear you. Sean. I guess. but I also hear what Linda saying. I it does seem like ultimately. the vote tonight is just going to be to authorize Linda to work with planning and Board of Health on getting a peer review. We'll be looking at storm water. and then we go from there. But I certainly take your points that it seems like a very early it seems like we're looking at a project that's not really quite ready for prime time yet. I guess is the way I'm looking at it. Sean Fair: Right as always. much more eloquently put than I thank Linda Hansen: you. Luke. when is your first time planning board? Is that? Is that us in October? Sean Fair: Sorry. second. Linda. is your. is your Linda Hansen: hearing with the planning board scheduled for October at some point?
Unknown: Yes. we are on for October 15 is when we go before planning board. Linda Hansen: Okay. again. the Commission can take a vote tonight to engage a peer reviewer for the storm water review. and then it won't be until after the planning board meets that we probably come up with a the process that we're going to follow for that I mean. if they again after their first hearing. if they have a number of questions or concerns or there's modifications that need to be done. there's no real reason to do a peer review immediately until the commission and Planning Board have seen revised plans. And that holds true also for Board of Health. if they have some changes that. Need to be made based on. you know. their original plans. I mean. that's how I look at it. I don't know how the other boys are going to look at it. you know. I don't know if they they're going to need that information in order to suggest revisions to the plans. I don't. I don't really know how they work so. but it doesn't make sense for us to really engage anything at this point. other than take a vote and then wait until the planning board meets on October 15. Does that make sense? Sean Fair: No. I'll go back to I hear what you're asking and No. we've never done this. so I'm clear and make sure the applicant understands whatever I'm we're gonna have to see this thing again before we ask for a peer review work. So again. I don't understand why we're we have multiple peer reviews. If we're saying. Well. we're technically not going to even engage in peer review for someone. why are we here?
Unknown: I'm happy to kind of just jump. So yeah. the questions are fair. right? I mean. there's a lot of boards that have to go through something like this. So as a team. like this. so as a team. we were targeting the next filing deadline for each board. And the way they work out. Sometimes it gives an interesting situation because of the scale of this project. right? It's a large project that has Wetlands Protection Act. and it has chapter 194. 193. Planning Board of Health. There's a lot of boards that need to see this project. have the time to digest it. review it. We felt. as a project team. it makes the most sense that once we have at least what we believe is a final design. to file it with the boards. to allow you guys time to review it. We fully understand that when you go through these processes. these things can absolutely change. But this is the current design that we have. You know. we've come up with a design that makes sense architecturally from a stormwater perspective. so we know that we have to go through the process with all the boards. but it makes the most sense for us to at least engage the Commission on the process now begin to review it and take feedback as we go. because any one of these boards could have questions. modifications. depending on different local bylaws. policies. different things like that. So we understand that we are not asking you guys to run right into something and act as this is the final design. But from our side of things. it's helpful for us to start to get feedback from each board weeks. We like the idea of the peer review going simultaneously. because stormwater is going to be through planning and the commission. So I think if we start to go out to peer reviewers and approve that at least it helps us begin to prep for the peer review process. So that's the intent behind it. Certainly understand the Commission's questions. and I think you know the the thought of taking a vote to peer view this project helps us just get the next step to move forward. We can talk between the different meetings as of when we do that. but it's helpful for us to at least get this project in front of the commission begin to discuss it. take some feedback and set up our process with everybody. Sean Fair: Yeah. thanks. Andrew. I appreciate that. I'm confused. Didn't someone to say you guys are in front of the planning board on the 15th of October. right next. next Planning Board meeting for y'all. Unknown: that is correct. we we have been given by planning board that date as the hearing. Sean Fair: So we've got two meetings in between then. right? So why are we meeting now to wait to hear what the planning board says. Start a review process so I hear what you're saying. but so I'll go back to you. Linda. I don't understand why we're here right now. Linda Hansen: Again. they submitted. We have to hold a hearing within 21 dates. And so. you know. this is. this is a process we have to follow. So again. we don't have to get started on any peer review. I do worry about the Board of Health if there's any changes. I mean. maybe that's a peer review to start with. a groundwater mounting peer and the scope of work that the Board of Health has put together for the peer review. I mean. that could change things. you know. locations and stuff. So. you know. maybe again. this might be a different process. Here we might be. you know. second. third in line as far as stormwater goes for peer review. And that's something that a discussion we have to have is. you know. how we're gonna. how we're gonna. how we're gonna do this. Sean Fair: you know. second. second or third is not first. No. it's not until the planning board says. here's what we're gonna have them do. and this is gonna change what you all are seeing. what. what are we voting again? So we can Linda Hansen: wait to vote. Sean. we can wait to vote if you want. Well. that's my Sean Fair: Yeah. so I'll this is not. this is first time we've ever done this is a highly unusual process. but this. this. this part of us. front of everybody else for a peer review that that we don't know we're peer reviewing yet. technically. other than the fact that. yeah. there's gonna be a stormwater peer review. So question I Shannon Fischer: was going to say. like. I I mean. I certainly hope we see changes. I don't even like. I don't think I would even want to vote on a peer review right now. the number of trees that are the number of mature native trees that are slated to come down. is so egregious and reprehensible. I. Certainly hope that that we see changes. I mean. this is an Aston they're proposing to clear cut and DeForest acres of land. And I don't even see that there was an attempt to save any of these trees. except for that small little token pocket down front. I mean. it's. it's really hard to look at this. I I would certainly hope that we see some serious changes going forward. And I would. I wouldn't mind holding off on the peer review for those reasons. Unknown: Yeah. put a parking garage in to save the trees you don't have. There's a lot of changes. And on the next plans that we get. we require the data. and that's missing again.
They must read the rules. because they asked for a waiver for something else. but then they don't give us the datum.
Shannon Fischer: Gotcha. yep. Thank you. yeah. a parking garage. or stack some of the buildings. Or instead of having another field. which Wayland has plenty of fields. have an outdoor classroom. Teach children to appreciate nature. instead of stripping it away. it's their the natural legacy that they'll need to have a good future anyway. So there's many changes that could be made to make this an actually environmentally sensitive project. which it certainly isn't right now.
Sean Fair: Okay. thank you. Jen and Barbara. Anybody else thoughts in the commission? Luke Legere: I just want to echo Shannon and Barbara's comments. I'm. you know. really sort of at a loss for words. Honestly. looking at this design. the amount of trees that are coming down there's not like there's barely a square foot that's not developed here. and there's massive amounts of parking. It appears to me. I just. I agree with Shannon and Barbara entirely. It seems like there's a better way to design this to be able to save some trees and some of the natural environment. and it doesn't really appear to me that that there was even an attempt to do that. based on what I'm looking at here. So I I guess at the end of the day. you know. I heard what the applicant said in response to your question. Sean. it's their prerogative. obviously. to file in whatever order they choose.
I'm sort of agnostic. I guess. I don't really have a problem with voting tonight to authorize Linda to work with the other departments and boards on a comprehensive. collaborative peer review whenever that happens. But I also agree with what I think most of us are saying. that it doesn't seem like that's going to happen really. very soon. So I guess. I I. I guess. in my view. I'd sort of put it back to the applicant. If they want us to take that vote tonight. I'd make a motion for it. But it does seem like it's a little premature. Is just my observation. That kind of goes back to what I was saying if what I was saying before. It just seems like it's going to be an incredibly expensive undertaking. It's. I suppose it's the applicants money. so it's their decision. but it isn't the way I'd do it if I was on their side of the table. But that's I'm not. So that's where I'm at. Shannon Fischer: Can I add a sort of a bigger picture thing. like 500 trees proposed to come down here. We just. like the the Caritas project is what another 300 trees someone cut down. We've had two different people who cut down 50 trees. I think. give or take on their properties. Like this is how towns lose their tree canopy. Like this is how it happens. 100 500 trees. at a time. And these are really important natural resources. And these are also homes for many. many creatures that just happen to not be human. but still have value.
Okay. thank you. Unknown: I just to that point. because I noticed the same thing. And again. being new. you know. but it was obvious to me. too. that the whole. the entire five acres are being developed. And so one thing I noticed. just as a comment. is in the Notice of Intent memo section 2.6 the number of trees to be replaced. I think we're actually using the chapter numbers 193 and 194 three and 194 because it doesn't tie to the count of native plantings to be replaced on. I think sheet l 401. and the other thing that just stood out to me is there are replacement plantings. And I know it's allowed in the regulations. but considering it's over 500 trees coming down. the predominance of the replacement plantings are native shrubs. right? And those are wonderful to have. but it's inordinate the amount of trees that are coming down and then replacing them with shrubs. So hopefully. over time. there's some. you know. ways. as someone mentioned. I think it was Barbara like a garage. Or something else where we don't have to clear cut everything. we can save some of the existing trees. But I. I noticed it as well. but I wanted to point out that discrepancy in the documentation for for now. And I think. and I could be wrong. So this might be a question for Linda. but I was looking at the requirements on our website for. you know. number of shrubs for trees removed. And I just think on the chapter 193 for medium trees. DBH. 11 to 20 inches. it's showing four shrubs for every five trees. But I thought it was four shrubs for every three trees in the regulation. So I just I noticed that as well. And again. we're probably very early on. but having everything. I'm a finance person. I'm a numbers person. so having things tie back is something that I'm always looking for. Sean Fair: And you know. Lisa. we actually passed before you got on a couple of months updated on the 183 a one to one replacement. So really. so what time? Different place than tonight. but definitely point taken. And so I last thing. I'd say that we can vote as we have talked all night. Luke. I'm with you. You know. if. on one hand. if the app can wants to do it. but again. it's why not do every meeting like this? Hey. Linda. at some point you're gonna want a storm water versus it's always. here's what's before us. We know what we're asked. being asked to permit exactly. because it's gone through all the siphons on us. It complies. Now have a storm water. right? And so if we want to say. Great. do a storm water now. that's not gonna happen for another three meetings that we're gonna be in. Okay? But you when we get our final Alright. here's what the final plan is going to be. We need another storm water and so that's why I want to make sure we're not going to be up against this. We already did a storm water review once upon a time. right? And so I'd much rather continue this do our normal way. and just continue the hearing. And then when we get Linda. you can talk with the planning board. They're well aware of her regulations. It's not a big surprise. And Board of Health. and once we get their meeting. we'll know we'll have a little more knowledge of what we're actually doing. versus giving Linda do whatever. So that would be my preference. but I definitely understand what we're look what you're saying to the applicant. but why continue this hearing? I still understand why we're being asked to authorize this so far ahead of rally. We're not we're not even there yet. So that'd be my thought.
Unknown: if I may quick question. Linda. what is the what is the next commission hearing after October 15. Linda Hansen: Oh. I have to go check. Let me check. Luke Legere: I thought October 8 was our next. We were the 20 I think we're the 24th and then the October 8. I believe we're the next. yeah. Sean Fair: the one after the eighth is 29th the 29th Linda Hansen: 29th the ninth. Okay? I mean. we can continue to the eighth and find out. I mean. by that point. I hopefully will have discussions with the planning board. and then Board of Health might have it reviewed by then. and that we can go back and decide what. you know. if we want to modify the scope. if we want to move forward. that kind of thing. Sean Fair: So by the eighth. that's going to happen the October 8. You said. yeah. Linda Hansen: yeah. I mean. I think by that point we should probably know more about. especially about the Board of Health Review. and I would have discussions with the planner. town planner. to find out exactly what direction. how. how they plan on managing the peer reviews for for the board. for the site plan review. Okay. can Sean Fair: I just. oh. go ahead. I was just Shannon Fischer: gonna say. there's a comment in. in the in the chat. there's a and a butter who wants to say something. but can't stay on past eight. So it's hoping to jump in. yeah. Sean Fair: Well. yeah. I just wanna make sure. We'll go this first before we open it up. All right. Last thing. so basically. we're saying maybe continue to the eighth. and we'll know more information by then. and we what we're peer reviewing. possibly. yep. Unknown: And I would add. if we haven't gotten anywhere by that eighth. we can just do a quick continue to the 29th and pick it up then. Okay. Sean Fair: okay. All right. push anything else before I as someone who wants to make a comment. okay. let's see Carol Wolf.
Linda Hansen: She's on Carol. You can unmute yourself Sean Fair: here. I'll unmute you.
Unknown: Yes. I could unmute myself. There you go. I don't know if you have video on me. Please Linda Hansen: introduce yourself. Sorry. Unknown: I'm Carol Woolf. I live at 10 Brandywine in Turkey. la village. I. I'm actually in a three way text right now with a number of other residents. and many of us have been talking about what's happening here and been very concerned. Honestly. we weren't quite sure how or which meetings or how to raise issues with the town and the different committees. because there's. as you all have pointed out so well. there's so many different committees and different pieces to this project. and it's such a huge project. So basically. we just wanted to say that we had many. many concerns about it. and we want to make sure part of that discussion going forward. I don't know that it's appropriate for us to say anything more detailed about conservation issues. I think you guys have done an excellent job of doing it. Linda Hansen: So Carol. let me suggest that if you guys are working together as a group. that you put together a comment letter. and that's something that you could share with all the different boards. myself. with conservation. with planning and even board health. And that would get distributed to everybody. We get distributed to all the members here and the planning board members. and that might be the most effective way. if you your thoughts together and put together a comment letter with all your concerns in it. Unknown: Okay. we can do that. It'll be at whatever point in time we finish it obviously will be based on the information we have at that time. I mean. tonight's meeting was very enlightening. and we learn new things even now. although we've been all over all of the plans and that none of us are experts in these areas. obviously. Linda Hansen: no. you can. you can. you can start with the original plans that we have in front of us. right? Because that's what we're looking at also. you know. that's what we have to comment on. And from that point. there might be revisions made. and then you'll have another opportunity later on. if you want to make change. you know that comments to a revised plan. or comments to. you know. something happening. Board of Health. or whatever. you know this is going to be. you know. it's. it's not as it's not a static process. It's going to be fairly well. you know. fast moving type thing. So. Okay. understood. Unknown: Can you just tell me who I should send it to? We should send it to you. Linda Hansen: Can you can email me and I can send you a distribution list. So if you send it to conservation@wayland.ma.us Yep. Then I can. I can give you a list of of who I mean. I could fire back the different email distribution lists that you can send it to. Okay. okay. Unknown: Emily. can you just confirm that's the same address I've been sending notes to you that you've been responding to so kindly. Yep. that's the same one. Okay. it's a shared app. So much I'm done. Thank you. Thanks. Carol. Sean Fair: Appreciate it. Couple more. Hands up. Meyer. Dana.
Unknown: Hi. can you hear Sean Fair: me? Yes. ma'am. hi. Unknown: it's actually Heather. Dana. we Heather. and Meyer is my husband. We are residents on Christina in Turkey Hill. You know. I just want to make a couple of comments. and really want to echo Shannon. because I agree with her that taking down 500 trees is deforestation. And I'd like to remind everybody that rice road is designated as a scenic Road in our community. And the reason all the residents on rice Road. all the main stone condo residents. why do we live here? We live here because it's a bucolic. quiet. tranquil environment. And while I have no objection to the Church and its religious values. I object to the plan and the implementation of those and think. just think that this was. you've got everybody on rice road screaming about the Dover amendment. and I've done my research and realize that the Conservation Committee doesn't. it doesn't necessarily apply that you have to apply those rules because it has to do with zoning. which is why this meeting is premature. I agree with Sean that there should have been planning board. health board. and all these other committees. First. you've put the cart in front of the horse. And lastly. you know you've got. I don't know how many people live here between one end of rice road to the other. including all the main stone condos. You wait a week to notify a butters when two years ago you were in court trying to get access to move those the graves. So this is a plan that you've had in action for a very long time. and you've had plenty of opportunity to reach out and have community meetings. If you look at Somerville. Cambridge. any of the major cities in our in our state. they hold community meetings where the public is invited from the beginning. So. To let them know what's going on. and I suggest that maybe it was fear on your part that you did not engage your community first. It's deceptive. And last comment. because I've heard it twice now. and my husband said it last night. You've got the church built into the hillside. The hillside is only 30 feet high. What do you do about the 90 foot tower that's going to come up above that hill? No mention of how you're going to ameliorate that. especially after you take down 500 trees. So I'm done. I spoke my piece. I think I represent everybody at Main stone. and and. and all the people who own houses on rice road. And I certainly hope that the health board. the planning board and this respected Conservation Committee take all of these things into consideration within your guidelines and what you have control over. Thank you. Thanks. Sean Fair: Eleanor. Uh. I see one more hand. Sylvia Diaz.
Unknown: yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Ma'am. all right. Thank you. Yeah. I want to thank the committee here. Shannon. Lisa. Luke and Barbara. who noticed the absurd number of trees that are going to be knocked down. And then. as you see on the plan. a lot of trees. If we between the church entrance and the rice road. a lot of trees are going to be knocked down. and just on each side. only. like six are going to be planted. That's just ridiculous. And but the other thing I really. I've always wanted to know. and it does pertain to the the the Conservation Committee. and it doesn't but I've always had. I've had a question when we went. I went to last week's meeting. They say the steeple or the or the towers. right? It's going to be 30 358 feet. But what I want to know. because that depends on the grade and knee and all that. how? What does that equate to number of stories? Is it a five story building. six story building. 10 or whatever? Can the architect answer Linda Hansen: that? Well. Sylvia. that's. that's really not in the Conservation Commission's purview. That's not in our jurisdiction. I would. if I were you. could you save that question for the planning board that would be within there. Unknown: I have them right here. Linda. I mean. it's and it's been hard to get a hold of them. I've been waiting to get this question answered for a week Sean Fair: now. right? But we have to keep it related to conservation issues. Okay. fine. unfortunately. Unknown: So thanks. Sean Fair: Well. thank you. Thanks. So we appreciate it. Well. see it one more. Beth Raynor.
Unknown: Hi. Thanks so much. I'm at eight. Christina Turkey. Hill village. and I just wanted to choose two statements. and thank you all for listening. The first is that it's hard to tell from the way that the plans that you're seeing from the architect are laid out. But when they talk about the back side of the property going up the hill. those are actually our properties that abut that. So we are at the back. We are at the top of the hill. At least some of us. some of us go up Turkey Hill. but some of us are sitting so that those parking lots will be our new backyard. those asphalt surfaces will become our new backyard. where we have woodland at this time. there doesn't appear to be a buffer between us and the and the asphalt that I could identify. because they're going right to the to the property lines. And again. that may not directly be conservation. but maybe somewhat. I my next question. again. I'm not knowledgeable. so I apologize if this is not in your purview. not in your wheelhouse. but I'm wondering. where does the tree Warden get involved in this process. and is that having to do with you or the planning board.
Linda Hansen: with the town just has a contract tree warden. So I typically. if we have questions about the tree. the health of the tree. it's. it's the applicant's responsibility to submit an arborist report to show us if some of these trees need to come down because of the health of them. we would probably not engage a tree warden at our expense for this. Okay? Thank you. Thanks. Sean Fair: Beth. yeah. did I miss anybody? Everybody? His hands. Okay. Commission. last comments. thoughts before we move for a motion. Shannon Fischer: Here just a couple quick comments. Um. one I think that. um. other towns use tree wardens a little bit differently. So there that could be part of where that comes up. But for for like Beth and Sylvia. some of those questions we've seen letters from abutters that go out to the multiple departments. like. like. our first like. one of the first residents said that she wanted to do. And so that list will be coming from Emily and. you know. adding a lot of those comments in there. sort of as a group of a butters could help get some of those answered. You know. if we're not able to answer them here.
Unknown: Thank you very much. We appreciate it because. you know. we're trying with very short notice. As Heather mentioned. we really were just notified within a 10 days of all of this. Linda Hansen: Did you receive in a better list. a better notice? Unknown: Then we received something from the church. As you you pointed out at the beginning that we received something from the church with less than a week of time. As I recall. one of my neighbors could. could correct me. I was on vacation during the meeting. I did request. and they had a link. and they had an email that that you could request if you couldn't be at the meeting. Information I have not ever received any information. although I did email them. So as I under. as I recall. it was less than a week's notice for the meeting. Linda Hansen: We should have also received a notification to a butters letter that was separate from the church with a separate from the church letterhead that would have come from. where from God or consulting? Unknown: Okay. about the meeting tonight. I did receive that a couple of days ago. Okay. all right. so within a few days of this meeting. yes. I'm sorry. yes. Linda Hansen: just checking. Thank you.
Unknown: Christian. Anything else Shannon Fischer: there? Another hand raised. Sean Fair: Sylvia. That's. I think she's.
Unknown: I think she raised her hand again. maybe. Sean Fair: oh. raising again. Sylvia. Sylvia. you're on
Unknown: mute. You can now. I know you can hear me. I think. I don't think everybody got this second a butter email from or letter from Goddard. I don't think everybody got the first one. either. as far as I've been told. I don't have. But. for example. the second one from Goddard I didn't get. And I live on Brandywine. which is pretty close. I don't know how close you have to be to the church project to be considered on a butter you know. I don't know if the top of the hill at Turkey. At turkey. Hill got them or not. but I did not get this. this notice for this meeting and and so I just wanted to clarify that. And one question for the that it does pertain is. you said they're going to knock down 500 trees. and they're proposing to replace it with how many. but not all of them are trees. some of them are shrubs. right? And so how many trees and shrubs.
Linda Hansen: I think? Quote me. if I'm wrong or right. I thought I saw 68 trees. Is that correct? Unknown: There was more than that. I think
trees and the rest were shrubs and Okay. and. and how many are shrubs? I
uh. several 100 it looks like yeah. I'll let our landscape architects jump in on that one. I do want to just quickly address the the about a notification comment. because that's certainly important to make sure. So I do just want to pull up my screen real quick just to make sure that we can show Sylvia. I just do want to confirm that there was one sent your way. I have your address here. and it was sent out on August 27 and seventh. I don't know what may have happened with the postal system if you did not receive it. I do apologize. and I'm glad you were able to make it tonight. Just for the Commission's knowledge. I do want to make sure that they they know that these were sent out and time stamped August 27 just for compliance purposes. Thank you. of course. No. I'm glad you guys were able to make it tonight. Yes. thank you. I heard it through the brief line. so that's fine. good. yes. Barbara. Barbara page. Oh. they don't number the pages. Oh. yeah. here it is on page seven. guarded. It says. Is in total. the project requires removal of 38 trees within the riverfront and 493 trees from the remainder of the site.
Thanks. Barbara. that's what they said. yep. I mean. I Shannon Fischer: does the rest of that sentence tie into Lisa's catch about Yeah. the it's not 94 and 193 that's this the bylaws that got typo in. yeah. Sean Fair: yeah. okay. okay. We got two really quick. quick comments here. Helen. Helen Walker. believe it was yes. Unknown: Helene. thank you. I just wanted to say that I am feeling much better. I live on 13 Brandywine in Turkey Hill. so I am very close invisibility to what would become a parking lot. and the loss of the trees was very painful for me to read about. and I wanted to thank you. because I think you're taking a lot of care. and I really appreciated a lot of your comments. and I'm leaving tonight with less anxiety that I arrived. So thank you very much. Excellent. Sean Fair: Appreciate it. I see Sherry Unknown: make sure
you didn't activate your Gary. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. okay. I live also on Christina 10. Christina right at the top of the hill. and the project will greatly impact my my home and but I did want to just ask a question. I almost did not open this Goddard consulting letter because I had no idea that there was an it was about the church or being out of butter. And I I just don't understand why there was nothing on the envelope. even about what it was for. what was going to be on the inside. I don't know if that's an a weird question or not. but like I said. I someone said. Did you get the butter letter? I said. I don't think so. And then I just looked through my mail. and I just think it's odd that we get something from a consulting company instead of from the church or the town or somebody
Sean Fair: Gotcha. Yeah. that's typically how it comes out. Unfortunately. it doesn't kind of official there. Unknown: Thank you for the clarification to the butters. I would just jump in quick. So it's. it's a regulation under the Wetlands Protection Act that anytime a wetlands permit is filed. a butter is within it's typically 100 feet. Get notified. and we must do that by either certified mail or certificate of mailing. So it comes as a very formal envelope that you'll see timestamp from the post office. So it. it comes a little cryptic and strange. It's because we just have to send them out and we have to show and we have to show timestamp and prove that we we notified of butters. So it's a. it's a strange process. So again. I'm. I am glad that everybody saw it. and you know. we appreciate all of your comments.
Sean Fair: Thanks. Sherry. thank you. Did I get every looks like Meyer. I think it was Heather. Was the one. Yep. So you. you. you Unknown: asked me. I just have a quick question for the Conservation Committee. because my understanding is that tree cutting by an applicant is subject to the Conservation Commission's review if it falls within one of the three protected areas. you know. a jurisdictional wetland. a buffer zone that was mentioned the 100 feet or 200 for a river. or any other area specified in a local wetlands. protection by law. if the applicant has met those requirements. what ability does the Conservation Committee have to make decisions about the tree cutting. Sean Fair: not to simplify storm water. okay. when you remove trees. you remove sponges from the ground. which changes hydrology sometimes. and run off and storm water. all that stuff. Unknown: All right. thank you. That was very helpful. Thank you. You're welcome.
Sean Fair: I think I have everybody. yes. okay. Commission. we were finalizing any comments before a motion. Anybody. anybody else. so. so I think we for. I think we released. chatted about making a motion for continuance to October 8. and that way we'll get have some more information on how this is proceeding and what may. may or not be required that we're chatting about commission. Luke Legere: That was my understanding Sean and I also understood we're not vote. In for a peer review tonight. We're going to just continue to the eighth. and we'll talk about that on the eighth or at the next meeting after that. So I mean. maybe it's worth just having the applicant confirm what you and I think we understood. Unknown: I can confirm that we are amenable to that here in the Commission's comments. That works for us. Luke Legere: Okay. thank you. Perfect. Yeah. I guess my just final comment. then before any sort of emotion shot. I think just kind of two things sort of obvious. I suspect. to the applicant team that you've heard from a number of members of the Commission and the public. is the tree removal. I would really encourage the applicant team. There's a lot of brain power here tonight. I would encourage you to put that to use. trying to find ways to design this so that you're you're really saving some trees and same with the mitigation planting. The shrubs are all well and good. but what's coming back in really isn't. in my view. anyways. an adequate replacement for what's being proposed for removal. So that's I would just say that in the other comment I would make. just based on what we heard from the residents. is it doesn't sound to me. and maybe I'm mistaken. It doesn't sound to me like there was really any outreach or communication with the neighbors. And I think that's worth something. you know. that's something that's worth the applicant team really seriously considering is trying to have a meeting with the neighbors and those who are living nearby who are going to be most affected. I'll just say. in my experience. it may save you a lot of headache and heartache down the line if you're able to talk with them and hear their concerns and try your best to address them. It just doesn't sound like that really happened again. maybe I misunderstand. I would just offer those two sort of big picture comments.
Unknown: Thank you. Luke bales. Christian.
Sean Fair: yeah. I'll wrap up. I could agree more with Luke. So let's get let's see where kind of things land over the next few weeks. But yeah. through that being said. So with that. can you continue once then for October 8. sometime after 630 Luke Legere: please. So moved Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. To hear a second. Second. Okay. Shannon. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Sean fair. yes. All right. we'll see you folks in a few weeks. Unknown: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. uh.
Sean Fair: uh onto 1d this is 13 Charena Road DEP file number 322. dash. 1041. continued Notice of Intent file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection Bylaw and the Wetlands Protection Act available submitted by Cara Carol Seto Patricia Laza Wicke for the demolition of existing house and development of a free house subdivision at 13 Charena Road and Wayland mass the product is shown on assessors map 38 block 157 is located within 100 foot buffer zone of a boring vegetated wetland. Linda. Linda. you're on mute.
Linda Hansen: I believe we have Kevin O'Leary and the applicant on to discuss whatever new information they submitted. I have a progress print from was it September 3. who received it? Was that? Is that all we got? Kevin.
Kevin O'Leary: yeah. the treat for the subdivision roadway.
excuse me. With me is Carol and Mark Seto in the same room. sitting behind me. and we submitted a revised tree removal plan. and I could share screen to show it. and this is on the subdivision roadway. and also Sean. if appropriate. I'd like to also discuss. at some point. I maybe during the same hearing. is the lot a one or one cedar wood Lane RDA. that's in front of the commission too. because there's some intertwining components to it. But in regards to the cedar wood Lane infrastructure. construction. roadway drainage. Okay to share screen please? Yeah.
These plans visible on your screens. Sean Fair: your email. Oh. no. not the plan. No. just your your desktop. I'm sorry. Unknown: I. Try it again.
Now. is it visible? No?
Visible now. yes. yep. okay. thank you. Kevin O'Leary: On the left is the the tree plan that was submitted and we had a site walk on August 27 at the property. and we walked down in this general area. this plan. I'm going to just increase it a little bit so you can see it better. Unknown: Yes. I think I am.
Kevin O'Leary: So this is a plan that's been submitted to the commission. And we walked down into this area. and we got stopped by a bee's nest in the ground. So we turned around and came back out and walked up in this area. Here's the existing house. and we viewed or looked at these trees. and then kind of looked back in the cul de sac area and discussed the tree removal. Since that time. we had put together another plan. just going to scroll to it. because the commission had a lot of concerns about the tree removal. and it was a significant amount of work that they were requesting in regards to the removal of the trees. So we cut back the line. and now the tree removal line. or a limit of work that's L. O. W. in this area comes around and connects back in this approximate location. So you can see that we're removing. or proposing to remove. significantly less number of trees. I think the I think we're reducing it almost in half the number of trees to be removed. And you can see that I've removed the x's from the trees over here. I have not filled out or done the tree counting analysis on this portion of the plan. because we wanted to get an understanding with the Commission of the goal of what they want to see on the plan. or what analysis they want to perform. When we submitted the plan. I had assumed that about 50% of the trees were in significantly poor health. and it didn't seem justified to provide replacement plantings for the trees that were more than half dead. I used a 50% estimate on the tree life. Basically. of all the trees were taken down. we're only going to replace 50% of them. So now that we're reducing the tree removal in approximately half. a little bit more than half. I believe. 28 inside the 100 foot. and 14. I'm sorry. 17 inside the 100 foot and 28 outside the 100 foot buffer zone. So we'd like to be able to proceed with the Commission with this new information. But you know. a lot of these trees. as you can see. many of these trees would have to take down to put the road in. So we'd like to. you know. see how the commission feels about not replacing some of these trees. or still using the 50% rule for the trees are in poor health. So I'd like to hear any commission comments about that. so we can proceed at some point to finalize this.
Sean Fair: Linda commission. Thoughts compared to the site walk when. Linda Hansen: um. yeah. I mean. I didn't. I didn't record all the different trees that were dead or disease. I'm just. I'm basing it on. on Kevin's plan. I only see 140 dimension tree was dead. Then there was another one here. where this the infiltration unit is. is. says dead on it. But the rest of them. I can't confirm what the health of those are. I mean. we did again. You know. we were kind of stopped because of the bees nest. And. you know. the the discussion we had was. why are all the trees getting taken down? A lot a four in other areas outside the where the the road and the infiltration are. are being proposed? It seems a little bit premature to do that. So. I mean. I'm not. I don't think doing a blanket. okay. we're going to cut it down to 50% is. is just doesn't seem like a good decision to make. right at this point. when I'm not. I'm not 100% clear what. how? What the hell that these are.
Kevin O'Leary: Sorry. say it again. Linda. you're not sure about what Linda Hansen: Well. I mean. you're doing this. this coming up with this. this 50% rule. I don't know where that comes from. I mean. we don't. we don't have a good understanding with the health of all the trees that you're planning to remove are. Kevin O'Leary: So you don't have a good plan that tells you which ones we want to take Linda Hansen: down. No. the 50 the ones that are. Are this 50% rule you're coming up with because some of them are diseased or dying or dead. I don't know how you came up with that. because. again. I only see two on here that say they're dead. Kevin O'Leary: Well. we we walked it with an arbor says. Yes. you know. walked over this property. and you submitted a letter that supports the 50% estimate of the health of the trees that are on the property at the site walk. And we know that the standing dead trees should come off the plan. Or. you know. we're not providing replacement plantings dead trees. but of the ones of the live trees on the property. there are some that are more than 50% dead. There are some that are less than 50% dead. We pick 50 based on our observations in site walks? Linda Hansen: Well. I'll let Shannon weigh in on that one. She probably took better notes than I did at the site walk. Shannon Fischer: Then I'm not sure I'm ready to speak about about that. I know that we saw some trees that that looked like they were in good health and just needed some of the invasive pressure to be taken off of them. and I want to so have the things like the island this been are they on this map? Because we talked about how those needed to come down. But. you know. they had previously been on here. I don't know if they're still on here. I think we want to get those off for sure. I. I don't know. isn't something kind of like dead or not dead. I don't know about the 50% half dead. mostly dead. kind of thing. but I know we saw some trees that just needed some love and care and some invasive pressure to be removed. And we those were being considered. you know. to be taken down because of that. but we didn't necessarily think they had to be. But. you know. I don't know.
Kevin O'Leary: well. is there. is there a percentage that the commission is comfortable with that we can. you know. use to go forward with this just. you know. trying to move this thing ahead. And I And sorry. go ahead. Shannon Fischer: I was just gonna say commission. Have we done this before. where we say. okay. take 50% off the top because of this. Like. that's not really a thing we do. I mean. don't you just replace the tree. I mean. why wouldn't you want some beautiful trees to help mitigate some of this? So I don't know.
Unknown: We haven't said 50%
Linda Hansen: Well. I thought. I thought the purpose of the site visit was to remove all the Norway. Norway maples and the Tree of Heaven off the plan and anything that's dead. right? And have a revised plan that shows just the mature. live trees. you know. that are. that are not invasive. right?
Shannon Fischer: That was what I thought. Because we pointed out the Atlantis. we pointed out the Norway's. We saw the invasive bugs on the Atlantis like. you know that those shouldn't be on there. right? Or are they? I'm not. I'm not sure. Kevin O'Leary: What are the trees that you're mentioning are in discussion. if they're over the Yeah. all the trees are located. I think we just used. you know. four inches in diameter. at breast height. and located them and plotted them. right? Shannon Fischer: But part of the reason we had the site visit was because you were saying. Oh. well. some of the trees that we've marked are invasive and some of them are native. And we that became a little unclear. because obviously we wouldn't need replacement for invasives. And so we went there and we saw kind of. you know. the natives. the invasives. the trees that were healthy and just needed an invasive removal. right? So I'm with Linda. The point was kind of to re figure this tree map. if I understand. if I remember. Linda Hansen: the point was to subtract the invasives off this. this whole list off this. of this plan. So. I mean. I did. you know. I made notes on my on my site. on the My reduced plan. I have that identified some of the trees. but I we didn't go through and identify every single one of them on here.
Shannon Fischer: Yeah. I think an arborist would want to be because we. you know. we could only go so deep in there at that point. Linda Hansen: And again. we didn't have to go so deep. because I just chose not to take down all those trees and unlock for a just the ones that will be impacted by the roadway and this and the Storm. Storm. storm water system. But of those trees. how many of those are invasive or Nate or Norway Maples or Tree of Heaven that we have no interest in counting. you know? So I thought that again. I thought that was the point of the sidewalk. just to reduce your the number of trees you're taking down by eliminating all the invasives
and the dead for that matter.
Luke Legere: Sorry. just so not necessarily trees they're removing. but trees. Shown as being removed. On the plan. yeah. still be removing. They'd be removing the invasives. Linda Hansen: Ideally. we're not going to use them as for there's no reason to compensate. I just Luke Legere: wanted to make sure I understand. yeah. yeah. Sean Fair: And so I guess to Luke points of Kevin. are you saying? Are you asking. instead of. instead of actually counting. invasive. versus dying. versus dead versus alive. Are you asking us to say. well. just. let's call it 50% to make it like easy or Mike. where are we getting the 50% from? I'm confused. Kevin O'Leary: Well. it's from the site visits and examinations of the trees with the arborist. Because there's a percentage of trees that are healthy. and there's a percentage that are. you know. in very poor and declining health. And we didn't. we didn't think that we should be replacing trees that were. you know. more than 50% dead. and that's how we came up with it.
Shannon Fischer: But we're saying you might have a way to reduce it by by removing any invasives that are counted on this compensation. So we. we were hoping that the arborist could identify which trees on this map slated for removal are things like Norway maple or Tree of Heaven. and you could remove those. and then they wouldn't go towards compensation. But you know. certainly. please. please do remove all of the Atlantis that would that would be preferable. but you don't need to compensate for those. right? No. we were just talking different. different wavelengths. Kevin O'Leary: Well. if we. let's say we take. let's say we remove the invasive species. and then we still have a stand of. I don't know. you know. 50 trees. And let's say you have those 50 trees. is 50% of them are dead or dying. have very little vegetation or getting strangled by the invasive weeds we are. We is the intent. I mean. to replace that tree in the full spirit of the mitigation requirements. That's what I'm that's what I was getting at. is that it doesn't seem just to me to replace a tree that's significantly declined in health with a healthy tree. It seems like it's. you know. way too conservative. I think that's why. Sorry. go ahead. Shannon Fischer: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on you. No. that's right. I was just saying. I think we saw some trees that you know had invasive pressures. But if you just remove those invasive pressures. which would be good to do anyway. the tree would probably flourish.
Sean Fair: And I guess here to answer your question. yeah. if a tree is dead. that wouldn't you know that wouldn't count either. I guess. right? And maybe I'm missing kind of where you all miss each other. I think maybe the question is. okay. that's alive. that's dead. What is this? Is that go towards the alive. Do you have to compensate? And so if there are in this hypothetical 50 stand of trees. 15 or 10 of which are this hypothetical. could go either. either way. Is that kind of what we're getting down to. like. what are. what are those numbers? Kevin O'Leary: Yeah. yeah. Generally. I mean. some of the trees. you know. in the in the winter months. when there's no foliage. they appear to be dead. In the summer months. they have a very small or a limited canopy. even though they're. you know. for instance. 10 or 12 or 14 inches in diameter. So they're. you know. to me. that's a significantly declined health tree. and it doesn't seem right to have to replace that. you know. using the diameter of it. you know. and sticking it through the tree mitigation requirements. That's what I'm getting at. Is. is a significant number of trees that. you know. fall into that category. And I. I thought 50% was a. you know. a reasonable estimate of it. and the arborist agreed with me. So if the commission is not comfortable with 50% is there a another percentage of the commission is comfortable with. Sean Fair: yep. so I make for my own edification. So that same story. Kevin. you're saying arborist said 50% of this last 50 stand of trees that were kind of. you know. hypothetically. talking about 25 are this hype? Are this could be dead. could be alive. but probably dead. 25 are healthy. Those should be replaced. The other 25 are are not replaceable. Is that kind of Kevin O'Leary: what you're saying? Right? Yes. in a very general sense. yes. right. yeah. God. okay. Linda Hansen: but I don't see that in the report. though. Kevin. I mean. the report doesn't say anything about 50% Mr. Craig's report. Kevin O'Leary: yes. the first the first report. it does. He made a common first report. one of the two reports that he submitted. I think in the closing paragraph. he said he supports the use of the 50% declining health tree.
Shannon Fischer: So a tree can look like it's in declining health because it's got a blanket of bittersweet on it. but then you you take that down. you flail mode. or something like that. cut and paste those bittersweet stumps. Yeah. and all that tree. you can have a new lease on life. It's not necessarily just because it looks crappy with a blanket of bittersweet on it. Doesn't mean that it. you know. it's necessarily right for removal it. it may very well still have a lot of life in it if you just remove those terrible pressures on it. right? Kevin O'Leary: But that's part of the problem is. is there's so much pressure. and it's not realistic to think you're going to go on and cut the bit of sweet and then go out there. whatever. two or three times a year and Dave it with the poison to keep it from reoccurring. That there's too much of that on site. I mean. these trees are getting strangled from the ground up. and it's my understanding. also in the average report. that a lot of the trees have diseases or insects that are working against their life or against their remaining life.
Luke Legere: I was just gonna say. I'll just sort of cut to the chase. From my perspective on this. I like the idea of what I understood we were doing initially. right going out there. figuring out what the invasives are and not requiring mitigation for those. I'm not at all comfortable with this 50% rule idea. It just seems like something we've not done before. It seems subjective. it seems imprecise. So I'm not in favor of that. So I guess you know. I heard Mr. O'Leary sort of asking off the top. I think. more than anything. for some guidance. that's my two cents.
Unknown: Gotcha. Thanks. Luke. Linda Hansen: Anyone else? Just for clarification. I have two reports from April 8 from curry small those the only two I have. I don't know if there's another one that states 50% rule. but I don't. I don't see anywhere in either one of these that there's any. any mention of 50% Unknown: so. you know. it's. Shannon Fischer: it also seems like an odd like. like. I don't know if we want to set that precedent. say we want to take down. like. the example. we just had 500 trees. But don't worry. some of them are dead and dying. so maybe we'll just compensate. You know. playing with percentages gets a little weird. And it's not like it's actually a good thing to go after those invasives. Like. I don't think it's that hot. like it's a thing that people do. You flail. mow it down. you paint those stumps. you see what comes up. And a lot of times. you know. you can. you can. you know. go after the invasives that come back up after you've painted those thicker stumps. and then. you know. but sometimes some good things come back too. So it kind of gives the landscape a new a new lease on life. So I don't think it's necessarily like. if you can get a flammable down there. I don't know it's that it's the end of the world. but anyway. Unknown: I should. I should stop talking. Kevin O'Leary: No. keep going. Shannon. the I have the two obvious letters in front of me. which have been submitted to the commission. And the first letter. unfortunately. they both dated April 8. but they're a couple months apart. He Miss dated or used the incorrect data on the second letter. which I think was sometime in June. No. it's anyway. on the initial letter dated April. 8. third paragraph down. he says the majority of the trees are in extremely poor health. poor condition. In health. They've been overgrown by bittersweet. Those are multi flora and grape and have been killed by the overgrowth of these plants. Many of the trees have broken tops due to the weight of the vines on the dead trees. Most are most of the white ash are dead or have decay. Ash yellows was detected on one of the dead ash trees. Ash yellows is a micro Plaza like organism that has no effective cure known. no effective. known cure. is assumed that these may be the reason for the decline. as well as other factors. There are no wonderful plant specimens be found on the plot. and the plot is considered to be good for firewood only. It's normally suggested that a forest stand be thinned out by removing diseased and structurally damaged trees. but if that occurred. it would be clear cut once again. which in this forest stand assessment should be done. This would be an opportunity to call invasive species and replant with native species. Pictures of the forest and are supplied on pages two through four. and it goes on. There's another several pages on June 12. his second letter. and this is had a little bit of the willow tree information down near the start of the roadway. And on the last page. page seven. the second to last paragraph. He says. or he writes that he goes. I also think Kevin O'Leary was rather conservative in his assessment of the remaining trees on the property. Most of the trees are flawed in some way or broken. Eradication of invasive species will be a challenge once you dig into the soil. this will expose what's called the seed bank. This is where seeds from the invasives have gone dormant. and once the site is disrupted. they will germinate. So his. his statement that says he he thinks that I was conservative. He's referring to my 50% estimate on the health of the remaining health of the the trees on the property. Yeah. That's my basis for saying 50% is from the site walks. It's supported by a licensed arborist.
Unknown: Thanks. Kevin Christian thoughts. Shannon Fischer: I mean. if you're flail. if you're flail mowing. especially. you know. maybe when the ground is frozen. you're not going to disturb the soil. so that that's not necessary. You know. just saying that's not a guarantee. if that's how you if you choose a different route to go after invasives. But I'm really. I'm interested in what the rest of the commission has to say.
Sean Fair: So. yeah. So I'll go back. since that's a tough precedent. so I need to be a little more. you know. specific. not saying that the numbers don't actually come out that way or but it's just a tough. tough precedent to set of a ballpark. Here's what we think. So I guess I'll reiterating somewhat of what Sean Luke said. a little bit. even if it does end up being this casual number. anybody else? Commission. Barbara. maybe thoughts.
Unknown: Noise. so. Sean Fair: Commission. what would we think? What would be best way to proceed here? Give them some some guidance. next steps.
Luke Legere: I'm not really sure what. what more to add to what I said before. I think. yeah. in my view. a tree is dead or it's not dead. I just. I'm not comfortable getting into this. Well. it's half dead. So let's count half of them. I just. like I said before. I think that's just impressive. Imprecise. I think it's too subjective. And I agree with Shannon. I think it's just setting a really dangerous precedent. So I'm. you know. I'm fine with removing invasives and not requiring mitigation. If we can get an arborist report telling us with certainty these trees are dead. then great. But short of that. I'm. I'm not comfortable adopting Unknown: this 50% rule medication on
Sean Fair: 45 besides that. they have a variable. Yeah. I agree. Unknown: And most right so in one and most is one to one. You take one Linda Hansen: day. I count 40 trees in that section that aren't dead identified as dead. So again. a good portion of those could be invasive. But unless we know that number. it's it's kind of hard for us to make a decision. I The way I see Unknown: it. but you cannot. Linda Hansen: Barbara. sorry. Kevin. could you mute yourself? Unknown: I'm trying to that's like. this a radio is some Sean Fair: Oh no. yeah. Kevin's talking. Yeah. Kevin was talking somebody. That's what? Yes. we were hearing Barbara wasn't the radio. So sorry. So we're all sounds like doing the same feedback. then fair. Okay. so is that? Let me. Let me put on Kevin's that help you. I can continue this. Then to the next 24th what on your end would you like to do? Unknown: I'll just say I just had a comment that. So just again. because I'm kind of new to the commission. but it sounds like what we're saying is for at least the invasives. if they're like Norway maples. for example. if those are being removed. we're saying those don't have to be replaced. But what we're talking about is trees that may be dying may not be. they just might need to be given a chance. So I would agree with that Luke said in Shannon. if. if. if. they may be unhealthy. but they still have a chance to five unless. if they're dead. they're dead. but if they're there's possibilities to be alive. I say we try to save them. I think the fact that we're already compensating and saying. if they're invasive trees. we don't have to do a replacement. But keep in mind that. you know. even though they're invasive. they still provide. you know. Storm. what. runoff control. they still provide filtration. they still provide shade. So by making that concession. I think we're already. Uh. being kind. Gotcha. Thanks. Lisa.
Sean Fair: so next steps on. this would be. I'm assuming. a continuation. um. Alex. I'll leave it up to applicant on the 24th of September. the eighth of October. in terms of what time is easiest. what comes next? But I guess Kevin. you have a feel for which one of those is probably Kevin O'Leary: better for y'all. I don't think we're going to have much progress on the tree count issue before the 24th we can try. if we don't have a lot of progress. we can just go on another continuance from that. I would say. continue to the 24th and we'll at least report to the Commission progress. Okay.
Sean Fair: can I get a motion for a continuance to September 24 sometime after 630 Luke Legere: please. So moved. Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. Do I hear a second second? Thank you. That was Jenny that time. Uh. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. I think Kevin say right there we got you coming next public meeting. This is for two. A. whoops. drop my screen. There we go. For two. A. again. 13 Streeter road lot. A. one. dash. D. Dash 1044. it's continuing request for determination file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection by law and the Wetlands Protection Act submitted by Carol set off for the demolition existing single family house and construction of a five bedroom single family home and associated utilities. including a driveway. walkway. septic system and a storm water management system at lot one. a of the 13 Charena Road subdivision. Wayland. mass. the product is shown on assessors map 38 lot 157. and is located within 100 foot buffer zone. excuse me. of a boring. vegetative wetland. Linda Hansen: Linda. we received. DDT is peer review response on September 3. I believe that's part of your package. There's still a few questions highlighted on here. especially on the attachment. Haven't responded today. which you guys have not seen. So I do have some. yeah. I still think there's some open questions that need to be addressed on this one. So and Carol and I had a lot of back and forth on the easements. the way the deeds were written. And I did. just for clarification. I went to our town or our town surveyor. who did not. did not think there was any drainage easement written into the deed. So I'm not sure if you guys are still proposing to drain your water into US Fish and Wildlife land. but I. I'm happy to take it to town council. but that was mine. and the town surveyors read an interpretation of the deed that there is no drainage easement to allow you to to discharge your driveway water into US Fish and Wildlife land.
Kevin O'Leary: the Linda. I think what what you're referring to. I'm a little bit familiar with it. but it's into an existing head wall. There's an existing drain pipe that comes from the driveway on the private way and goes to a head wall. It's on the north side of the driveway and is located at the pull the plans up and stuff. but located on the Fish and Wildlife land. which was property formerly owned by the owners of 13 Charena. Carol Seto. who is here with me. is looked into this more or greater than me to greater depth. But generally. the the owners. the previous owners of 13 Charena. reserve the right to that easement. So I'm not clear what language you or the town surveyor is hedging for to say it's. it's not applicable. but it's. there's a there's a drainage easement laid out on the record survey plans for the property. And I reviewed the very briefly. reviewed the associated document with it. It looked in order. but I didn't look at it in detail. So could you give a little bit more why you think it's not applicable? Linda Hansen: Well. I'm looking for the Dean language. I can't pull it up right now. I don't have it immediately in front of me. Where it went. I just went through this whole stack looking for your tree plan that I thought. You had submitted. So I think I messed everything up. But it said something about may be discharged with. you know. under anyway. I can't even quote that. but I'm happy. I mean. if. if. if we want to get clarification on that. I guess the best way to do that is to ask our town council for 100% clarification on it. But again. you know that I the discharge. I If you're going to discharge water. it's going to be from the private way. What you're you're proposing is discharging the the runoff from the entire driveway. from the barn. into the street and then into us. Fish and Wildlife land. and I again. the way I read the deed. It doesn't
Kevin O'Leary: it's okay to share screen. I kept the sub the plan that shows the plot of these. And if that'll be a help. I
Linda Hansen: it says. reserving to take water and repair and maintain the pipes to the present well on the premises. And again. this. this is a deed for 13. A Charena. okay. your deed is for 13. Unknown: Go back to the first easement. I don't Linda Hansen: think we need to have that discussion tonight. I would. I'm more than happy to take it to our town council for their their opinion. But I am concerned that that's. I'm not sure that is you have the right to do that. so Unknown: do not share it. yes.
Sean Fair: So I guess there's something y'all. y'all want to send our town council just get official opinion. Yeah. Linda Hansen: I mean. we should take this offline. It's not worth having a discussion here tonight. because I think it's. again. it requires probably a legal interpretation for this. So I just don't want us to approve something if we don't. if we don't have a full understanding what the easement is and whether or not they have the right to discharge onto somebody else's property Sean Fair: between now next meeting. then you'll work with our town council. Linda Hansen: Yeah. no. that's fine. We can do that Unknown: in this still a determination. Evan.
do you want to
show that? And then two? One. Sean Fair: okay. mission. Any other thoughts. comments. concerns on this one. I can't get this in the way. This is. I agree with Luke Legere: Linda. I think we need I think it makes sense to just have this. have town council look. and we can reconvene on this next time. Seems. seems too thorny. No way. I don't think we're going to resolve this tonight. I sure.
Sean Fair: So. yes. then same thing continue. Unknown: Then excuse me. 20. can I? Can I offer some information? Sure. Go ahead. Okay. so I have forwarded to Linda from my attorney. the Eastman that was provided by the previous owner. the Hager family. back in 1965 when they own the parcel of land that include the part that was later so to us. Fish and Wildlife at that point. there was a drainage easement and also a conservation easement. And I have provided to Linda those documents and the plan they were in the town. Town clerk's office there was 1965 and in 1966 behavior built the private road. as well as the House and the well. 1968 he divided up. he took a parcel of the land where the well is located. and then sold it to US Fish and Wildlife. In that particular deed that Linda was referencing has the language that said. the grand tour reserve the right to take water and to access the well. as well as reserve the right for drainage and easement. So basically. there's like two documents that we need to look at. The first one is the drainage easement and conservation easement in 1965 and it has been kept in the town clerk's office when the grand tour owned the entire. Parcel. including us. fish and wildlife. Then the second document we need to look at is the D that later on showing they specifically call out a further reservation that they reserve the right for the existing well. because at that point. the well was built in 1967 prior to the first Eastman that was granted in 1965 and in that the D. the later D. had the two language in there to talk about reserving the right for the Eastman and the well.
Sean Fair: gotcha. Thank you. So. I mean. yeah. so I think just having our attorney sign off either way. just so we can make a decision that they can back. But so. I mean. what is there any issue getting that between now and 24th I'm assuming? Linda Hansen: I don't think so. I don't think so.
Sean Fair: Commission. are we good with continuing to the 24th
so is there anything else?
Luke Legere: Yeah. I think we have to Unknown: my feeling good. Kevin O'Leary: Well. the if I could talk please. I'm sorry. the the drainage easement is it serves or it's connected to drain in holes and catch basins existing in Charena in the private way of Charena Road. or for 13 Charena Road lot a One with the request for the termination of applicability
doesn't have an increase in flow in post development conditions to those drainage structures. So it's it's unjust to hold up processing the request of the termination of applicability for lot. a one on a drainage easement that's not even on the project site. and we're not draining. we're showing the reduction of runoff at the lot line. So it feels like we're getting dragged backwards with this issue that isn't directly connected to Lot. a one. Luke Legere: Well. if I so. I think there. This isn't the only issue. though. Mr. Earlier. if I'm not mistaken. I think you know. as Linda was saying off the top. we're there's still the peer review. And I there have been comments back and forth. but I haven't had a chance to review those. I think we said we got them today. I don't recall seeing them in the packet. So unless I misunderstood something there. I have seen everything. I think we're going to be we would need to continue anyhow. So I don't you know. the idea that. like. we're holding it up just because of this one issue I don't think is correct. Kevin O'Leary: Well. I it's. it's an issue that's not directly connected to this. to the RDA that it's. it serves the subdivision Road. which is the prior hearing. Linda Hansen: But Kevin. I'm looking at your plan that says lot one cedar wood Lane dated August. We received it August 4. 2025. and you have a drainage going right into us. Fish and Wildlife right there. So how is that not related to this project? Okay. all the driveway runoff from the barn. and you're sending it to what you said. some some Kevin O'Leary: catch basins are shown. The catch patients are shown on the subdivision plan. That's been part of the that's the Notice of Intent filing. Linda Hansen: But you're also proposing to take the entire barn. barn driveway runoff and send it in there too. And I think you only have. if you have any drainage rights. it's only for the private road. you know. And that's. that's what I want clarification Kevin O'Leary: on. Okay? It's not just for the private road. it's for the entire property. Linda Hansen: Well. let's get clarification on that. Kevin O'Leary: Okay. but in addition to Linda the the hydrological analysis for lot. a one doesn't increase the flow off the lot of lot. A one. yes. it does drain into the private road and down to the existing catch basins. which then flow into drain manholes. into that existing head wall. but it's not an increase in flow. Linda Hansen: Okay. I but I think I would like some clarity on on the right to drain onto somebody else's property. Okay?
Unknown: What do you mean by somebody else? Sean Fair: So I mean. I also agree with Luke. we just we would have to continue this either way. We're just getting information we haven't seen yet. So we can kind of do a two for one. for next. on The 24th Kevin O'Leary: right and on DG T's comments from I think it was September 3. and I wrote a response and submitted it today. or emailed it to Linda Fay all of their all the information that DGT References. In that September 3 that the data they're looking for is attainable. It can be provided. and it's. you know. it'll show reductions in flows post development flows. We just. you know. haven't had time to prepare all the detail that may be required. We keep giving them information to say. Okay. we're. you know. our curve numbers are amenable to less flow. And they say. Okay. well. do the drawn out analysis give us all the. you know. multiple storm events or. you know. it's just. it's. it's a maddening Paper Chase So. but. you know. we're showing a decrease in impervious area on the post development conditions for lot. a one. So. you know. just. it just makes sense that it's. you know. a reduction in flow. But that's what we've been able to analyze and and respond with to the Commission on the DGT comments. Linda Hansen: Let's have the Commission have a look at those. Unknown: Okay. perfect. Sure. Sean Fair: Alright. So can you motion? I think if we're all good for continuance. then actually we're no no motion. Sorry. we're public meeting. So I guess I will just kick this then to the 24th and we'll get our attorneys thoughts and be ready to rock and roll. and then we go that commission. Yes. awesome. All right. so we'll. I'll see you here in a few weeks. Then. Kevin. All right. thank you. Unknown: Thanks guys. You're welcome. Okay. there
Sean Fair: three a chapter 193 tree replacement. Let me not kick this one off. Linda Hansen: Did we vote? We're just going to continue. Sean Fair: Barbara continue. Barbara didn't Unknown: vote to continue. Say. again. you didn't call for a vote to continue. Sean Fair: It's public. It's a public meeting for a request for determination. Unknown: Always a public meeting.
Sean Fair: I Barbara. I forgive you. It's your first week here.
Well. I'm a someone things flagging me here one second Linda Hansen: they're asking about public comment on 13. Sean Fair: Charena. why can't I see that? All I see is. who is? Her hand up.
Linda Hansen: No. I think it's chat. okay.
Sean Fair: Oh. in the chat got. yeah. Connie. so she and attendee one second.
Unknown: Connie. you there? Yes. I am. Can you hear me? I can start with that. Yes. please. Thank you very much. I'm at 19 Charena Road. Connie. asking regarding the trees and the drainage. I would encourage the commission toward conservatism regarding the removal and replacement of trees. It's not just a stand of trees. It's uphill from a sensitive waterway. There's a flooding concern. given all the hard scape development and now five large buildings and driveways. etc. So Lisa. thank you for calling out that. although invasive. and definitely for trees that are less than 100% healthy. they are still absorbing and slowing rain water and improving soil infiltration. And so. you know. I just continue to be worried as downhill from this development. and really the lowest property in the area about the flooding. It seems like this project continues to grow. and the concern for the trees is is something I wanted to register. Thank you. Sean Fair: Thanks. Scott. Appreciate it. I see nobody else. Okay. so 193 let me kick this off. Sure. Linda Hansen: Yesterday. I had a phone call with Emily cherbo from time bond. who is right drafting our revisions to the chapter 193 regulations. She wanted a little bit more guidance on the tree replacement requirements. because basically most of the comments. many of the comments we received. were regarding. you know. the tree removal. tree compensation section. And so I think we all understand that the original guidance that we. Received back like five years ago is probably fairly unsatisfactory. As far as you know. one you can take down five trees and replace with one or something like that. Shannon did a great analysis and pulled up some of the other neighboring towns recently. What was that? Maybe a year ago now. I guess. or less. And so you know. on a regional basis. towns. Wellesley. Concord. Lexington. what's the other one? Missing one? Newton? Newton. yes. that's right. They're all doing a much more robust tree requirement to preserve the canopy and all these other things. So I think historically. we discuss about doing a one to one replacement. which is one inch to one inch. right? And I then I think Shannon and I might have had an offline discussion about that at some point. thinking that maybe what we're asking is a little too much. and it's. you know. and we're going to carefully consider the comments that were submitted for the chapter 193 regulations. And maybe it makes sense more of a two to one. So two inches removed. one inch replaced. And so she's again. this is. this is a discussion. just to give Emily cherbo some guidance of how what we want to see in the draft regulations. which we would like to be. we'd really like them to be a. not maybe a final version. but probably closer to final than anything we've had so far. And what she's also done is completely. I think she's rearranged most of the regulations. you know. just she's reorganized everything. So this is and we should be seeing that shortly. but I just didn't know if we wanted to open up this discussion. Does is the commission comfortable with the discussion that Shannon and I had recently. or maybe a month or so ago. about proposing a two inch to one inch replacement for trees and and with some. you know. consideration of putting in shrubs where it's appropriate. or maybe where it's might be a better fit for the for the property. you know. allowing at least some flexibility. Maybe so was everybody
Luke Legere: think. sorry. at least I didn't mean to Yeah. but no. you're I defer to Shannon and all things tree and vegetation.
Linda Hansen: the queen of trees. That was Unknown: gonna be my next question. because it came up. you know. obviously earlier today is. you know. is it a tree for a tree? A shrub for a shrub? So. if it's. the general rule is. you know. it's. you know. one inch for every two inches for a tree. you know. subject to consideration by the Conservation Commission. right where shrubs might be appropriate. But I think. certainly we probably all agree in. you know. the proposal we saw for rice road and the in the church. like just clear cutting all the trees and replacing most of them with shrubs is just not really the spirit of that. Linda Hansen: So. no. I can. I can send along the information that Shannon sent a while ago. You know. they the the other communities make a really strong argument for. you know. preserving the tree Canva canopy and the values of trees. And I think. I think it's important as to to sort of regulate more on a regional basis. You know. we don't want to be an outlier. necessarily. like what everybody else is doing. And I think I like the idea of of. you know. making this more of a sort of a bigger community effort. So what do you think? Unknown: Just a quick question. Linda. when you said. you know. we could allow shrubs or have some flexibility as we see fit. Will there be. like. guidelines to go along with that? Or do you see those discussions happening during Conservation Commission. like during hearings? Linda Hansen: Oh. I think we should really have some guidelines in that. I mean. right now. I think it's a little bit too generous for for shrubs. We're the Conservation Department here. Are in favor of shrub planting just because they do provide. often. fruit and food for the winter. for birds. So it's and. you know. so does poison ivy for that matter. But I don't think a lot of people want. we can't be suggesting that we plant that. I guess. But. you know. I think. I think we should have some guidance in there regarding shrubs. And. you know. that's. that's something that we could. we can discuss when we go through the public hearing to adopt the regulations. you know. maybe coming up with some final numbers. But I think what we really need to the decision we meet need to make tonight. and I don't think we need to take a vote. We just have to be in agreement with do we want to have a little bit more robust tree compensation than we originally proposed five years ago. which was the. you know. I think we. Like I said. I think we all think is inadequate at this point. Sean Fair: So. so two thoughts. One is to be very clear. We we're not. we can't keep picking this can. right? So be very clear. I'm calling for a vote. if not. next week on the eighth. We're not dilly dallying over it. So I want all final answers. and now this should have been done a year ago. frankly. and so not interested in that's my first comment. We're not kicking this can. so we're coming to a vote next time. regardless of where things are. second is. I'm okay with we want to be like our regions. but we can't say that in one breath then say our regions are Wellesley. Newton and Cambridge. Those are people trying. I don't I we are Wayland. We are basically our river runs right on the western side of our border. We should be more canopy than Wellesley and Natick and game. I don't care what they do. right. what Tom Weston does. right? Tell me what Sudbury does. Those are our regions. and that's and they're a one to one. So again. if we're thinking about scaling it back. and let's be very clear. we heard from eight people four times a piece for a 13.000 person town. we did not get feedback. Let's be very clear who were capitulating To what end. So if we're me. no. we're a one to one. And if you want to. you know. talk about maybe losing that for some some examples. I'd be open to that this town is. you give an inch. they'll take a mile. If it's there. no one's going to like what we come up with. They're going to not like it regardless. one to one to one. a two to one. so let's not kid ourselves that this is gonna be. Oh. great. ConCom up the best thing ever. Let's. let's all adopt it. People aren't gonna like it. Let's be very Luke Legere: clear you're not expecting a parade. Sean Fair: It'll be. it'd be the same voices who don't like it before. You know. shocker. right? So I'm over that part already. but if we're doing a region. town of town. then our then we need to look at what was Weston. Concord. Sudbury. do? Those are our regions? Not. So let's be careful what we're how we're doing that. and what that looks like. And so whatever answers we give. and I'm happy to consider the two to one on one and discuss it. Unknown: Look at Lincoln. What's say. again. Barbara. we should look at Lincoln. Sean Fair: Lincoln exactly right. Actually. lovely. wooded farming communities with a little bit of a tiny downtown call. We have a downtown question. I was gonna say concrete Shannon Fischer: is excellent on this. Concord has some very strong rules. and they have it baked into their their construction is tree protection with the with the goal of not taking down trees. I actually don't know that Lincoln is that robust like we may be able to we may be kind of leading the charge here. I think we'd have to go back and look at their things again. But Lincoln. but Concord and Lexington certainly are excellent. yeah. Newton too. though. yeah. Newton. but Newton's a city. You're the leader. right? Linda Hansen: Like he tells river running through it too. So. you know. they do have a rivering environment also. if you wanted to make those comparisons. Shannon Fischer: So I mean Newton. if you take down like a like. it goes up incrementally. So like it starts at one to one. but when you start taking down. like a legacy tree. it's three to one. You plant three inches for every inch removed when you're taking down. like a 40 inch diameter tree. but then. like the other time. but like. Concord is great. Lexington is great. but I think we have to double check what Lincoln is doing. But you know. Sean Fair: yeah. so Sean. so most of those. other than the one you just mentioned that with a graduating scale of legacy trees and ratios changing. Aren't most of those kind of like a one to one. So if we just said we're we'll do a one to one replacement. And when obviously cases like this come before us. okay. well maybe that's. you know. maybe we can be a little flexible here. That's a legacy tree on So. so I just caution us we're doing a lot of work for a regulation that we basically all adopt. And said we like this a few months ago. for a handful of people saying the same thing multiple times. right? And so let's make sure that the tail is not wagging the dog here a bit. That'd be my only thought. And if that means we have to take future fights on. We save too many trees. I'll fight that all day long. They're gonna say that there's regardless of our ratios. that we give them. So let's just be very clear on the outcome of this. Unknown: I have a question on that. So just again. because I'm new to this. and I actually dialed into one of those public hearings. are you saying you only got a few number of comments on the draft. and it was people more against having more strict rules. Sean Fair: We got. we'll say a handful. say 10 or less. comments from the same with the same kind of thing. right? So we didn't get 50. 100 comments from all over the board. It was a very right. Unknown: It's just interesting. like you. Think about what happened tonight with rice road and all of the neighbors that were like. This is why we live here. you know. And that's what I talked about when I joined the commission with the slug. This is why I lived. you know. it's just. I'm not familiar with how we get the word out. I forget where I saw it. if it was just in our Wayland newspaper. But. you know. there's a whole bunch of people that were on the call tonight that would probably love to see these more strict guidelines in place. you know. so it's. it's too bad we're not seeing those type of people come out and provide those comments. But you know. from my perspective. you know. I'd love to have more. I know we'll have a fight on our hands. but you know. to have it down in writing is just much more powerful. because right now it just. it seems like there's very confusing. It's. you know. number of inches in different categories. and it can be shrubs or trees. So I do like where we're going in is my general comment. Shannon Fischer: and I will add one more. And this is mostly just to. just to. like. lay it all out. I believe that one of the four towns that I'd put in that original table that I gave to Linda is using a point five. So it's using the the one inch removed point five replaced. or two inches removed one replace. So I believe one of those. those is so that's not completely out of left field. and I'm just saying that. So. like. all the cards are on the table. Yeah. I can't remember which one. right?
Sean Fair: Yeah. so. so. yeah. I'm. I'm. I'm okay if we want to discuss changing it. but make sure we're. we're. in my opinion. changing it for the right reasons versus Oh. we heard feedback. not really. not statistically. Statisticians say. No. you didn't right. 13.000 people. 10 saying things is not statistically relevant. And so I'd go with what Lisa said. Anecdotally. I've been doing chair now for eight years. I know what people what drives people they hate seeing trees removed. It's just they don't. No one's gonna come to a meeting where we're talking about regulations. They will come when the butter says we're gonna take down trees in your backyard. right? So that's motivational factors of where we are as human beings right now aside. that's kind of how I how I judge our feedback on what we're doing. is when push comes to shove. what people and so that's my anecdotal. But I'd say more maybe relevant than handful people chiming in constantly. So that said. Linda. your ask is whatever we discuss here is being put in this final version that they're working on so we can finally pass this thing in a few weeks. So let's be very directive what we're asking them to do. So we're not doing this again in two weeks. then again in two weeks. right? So let's just be very directive what we're asking them for. or not for. to change thoughts. Do we on tree in particular? Do we want to keep it at one to one. which we have? Do we want to see if to go to two to one? Do we want to give a shrubs don't count. or shrubs count for a different ratio. or it's a four to one on a shrub? Or if we commission. can say what let's let's get as specific as we can. so we can just pass whatever they give to give us back for a draft. Luke Legere: I mean. my two cents. I think you've heard me say this more than once. I just like the idea of discretion. right? So. like my preference is we set pretty tough standards. which I think is what we're talking about here. but we also give ourselves the discretion to have a little flexibility in there. So taking like trees versus shrubs. for example. you know. we're starting from a baseline of trees. but we also have the discretion to allow for some shrubs to take the place of those trees in appropriate circumstances where that's. you know. something that we think makes sense based on the project that's in front of us. Because no. no two are the same. right? No two properties are the same. no two proposals are the same. So. you know. I that's sort of where I'm at. I guess I'm would lean a little bit more towards maybe sticking with what we had. but allowing ourselves the flexibility to be a little less less heavy handed. You know. as we see fit. I'm Linda Hansen: also thinking of something that we can achieve. you know. I mean. I don't want every. every commission hearing or meeting to turn into a battle. you know. about how many trees have to be replaced. how many trees have to be compensated for? And. you know. we have quite a few. Know. a lot of South Wayland is very small lots. It's going to be hard to achieve some of this. you know. one to one. I think. And that's. that's again. where you're saying that. you know. we have to have some discretion and flexibility. But at the starting point. Mean. I think that's. you know. we have to come up with something that's achievable and reasonable. You know that? I think that's what I'm looking for. Luke Legere: Yeah. that's a good point. Linda. yeah. So I guess I'm. you know. I'm comfortable sort of backing to. back to the point we made off the top. It sounds like you and Shannon had some discussions. and sort of came to an agreement amongst yourselves that maybe backing off the one to one was okay. and I'm comfortable with that. but I think my comments a moment ago still apply. I just I like the idea of giving ourselves a little flexibility within the regs to tailor whatever we're requiring to the lot and the project that we're looking at that given night. Unknown: right? Either one? Oh. sorry. Sean. sorry. Just curious. Luke. how would we write in that flexibility? Luke Legere: Yeah. so there's. you know. there's different ways we could do it. right? Jenny. like you could allow for waivers. right? We could grant waivers. or we could just say something along the lines of. you know. thou shalt do two to one. unless. in the opinion of the commission. you know. and to your point earlier. general. we need some. I think. pretty clear guidelines on like. how many shrubs equal a tree. right. for example. But unless. in the opinion of the commission. shrubs are an adequate replacement. you know. something along those just. just so that it's kind of clear. like. to Linda's point. I think. a moment ago. or maybe sort of what she was getting at. like. we've got our baseline that we're starting from. This is what we're required. This is we're going to require generally. So we're not every single time haggling over it well. you know. this is. this is a negotiation. Let's talk. It's like. no. here's what we're going to require. If you have legitimate reasons for why we should waive those requirements. or why we should allow shrubs instead of trees. present them to us. and we'll consider those. That's so it's totally doable. I think there's a couple of different ways to skin the cat.
Sean Fair: It's so. yeah. so I'd add to that. I guess be a little contra in there. When we do a one to one or two to one. it's not gonna make one ounce of difference of how many means we talk about trees. what counts. We'll do that regardless of ratios. It's not gonna make one ounce of difference what ratio we use something to always want to push back. Well. you say it's a two to one. but what if we gave you so we're going to. every time we talk to applicants with negotiation. why don't we start with a one to one. if we all want a and believe we came to Wayland for a wooded area start there. they're going to squawk and cry into it and play The same games we get to play with every applicant. and just play those games with a stronger hand. right? So. you know. I think. why would we handicap ourselves going into and I agree with with what Luke said. And Jenny. let's get I'm all about waivers. I don't want things that come before us. like the process supposed to be so Linda and applicant can. can solve most of things on their own without ever having to come to us. But when it does come to us. I want the firepower. as it were. or the ability to say. no. no. hold on. Here's what the regulations say. We'll work with this. but here's our standard. right? They're going to push back in the sand regardless. And so yeah. again. I can be I can be. I can be convinced off the one to one. but I haven't heard any of the reasons we're considering it. Not one will be solved by changing our ratios from one to one to two to one. They're all going to exist the exact same way. the exact same amount of time. We're gonna be having this discussion with every applicant we come across. So I go back to. I'd rather have that heavier hand. as it were. with with. again. with not my knowledge. but the knowledge of people we come across. they live in Wayland. To be have a wooded. shaded. tree driven area. Let's have that in our in our pocket and and again. we are well within our border town. What they're doing anyways. And so again. we're not being radical. We're being very transparent. We're making the process easier. I'm happy to defend this to the hilt if we went to one to one with anybody working. So that's kind of my my thought. I don't see why we do it based on what we're talking about. Shannon Fischer: I can be walked back from the point five to one if you know that's. that's what folks were. or want that that was sort of an appeasement move on. On my end. I'm obviously in favor of tree canopy. And I think. based on. you know. some of the last few meetings. we can all see why this is essential. So if. if that's the the sense of the rest of the commission. I'm happy to turn back to One to One?
Unknown: Yeah. I pointed this out when I gave comments to it like. right? The few years ago. the town declared a climate emergency. and yet they want to clear cut 500 trees from property. And trees are. you know. they're not just important for water. they are important for Sean. Shade their point. They're important for carbon sequestration. I mean. it is. It's one thing that we can do to help. So. you know. and I think Sean to your point. it's negotiation. one on one. If you started off a higher point. you're more likely to end where you want to be. So. you know? Why not? I mean. I'm. I'm new to this. I'm probably going to regret it. but. yeah. one to one. why not start? There other towns have done it. Linda Hansen: It will say everybody should be assigned the reading from Wayland Post this week. right? Shannon. what's that? There's an article in Wayland Post this week about trees. you know. and Shannon Fischer: see what. where did it fall on it? Huh. what was. what was it on? Linda Hansen: So it was a retired writer from Nova who went to a talk from a retired test professor. and sort of summarize that. There's a couple of quotes from me. He interviewed us too. here in the office. and it's just. you know. it's real. It's a real. It's exactly what we're talking about. We got to save canopy. you know. 100% we have to save canopy. Shannon Fischer: So I have to read that. I'm got slammed with work this week. so it'll be. it'll be nice to see that piece. And I'll say. like. on the super hot days we had this summer. and we had a lot the difference between standing in the sun and one walking under a tree is is significant. Like. it makes a difference. I can't wait to read that article. Unknown: you know. So. like. if you ever like hiking. like main stone farm and you go into the parking lot. you have to walk through the meadow first before you get into the woods. and as soon as you get into the woods. and that's what my husband and I do on hot days. yep. Sean Fair: And also just make sure we're all tracking we're I've been banging this drum now for God knows how many years. we will have a tree bank set up. right? And basically what it is is a we can't place replace all trees. You need to just based on one to one. We'll do this. but we'll buy these or go to a tree bank that we. the commission. can either go. So not only is a standard set for what we're going to be negotiating. but talking about homeowners and again. helping them through. you know. but also it's for the bigger projects that right? And so if canopy covers what we're actually trying to do in Wayland. I'll go less beat one more time. having a better ratio of one to one for not just the the projects. but for any future tree bank that is. that is next on this. It's coming very quickly. I think would also help as a baseline for that that we can use always negotiate from so to get that horse one more time. but I think we stay at one to one and kind of all right. And last thing real quick on. just so Linda can give them so we come back with a final draft one to one ratio on the tree versus shrub versus hedge or whatever. Do we want to leave it very open language. where it's a we're talking about trees right now. and if and when they can't we. or Linda. if it doesn't. ever gets to us. we'll discuss what maybe an appropriate replacement. shrub wise versus trees. Or do we want to put in a ratio right now. where to afford? What do we How? How much do we want to give that directive so we can pass this next time. and I also never think through the shrubs next time. how open do we want to keep this?
Linda Hansen: I think we should put some guidelines down. and we have them now already. you know. some. some just rough guidelines for replacing trees shrub. you know. replacing trees with shrubs. So we can come up with some the same. you know. same ratio. same ratio. yeah. Shannon Fischer: venture the same like. maybe a legacy tree. like a really. like a mature tree. 25 inches larger like that. That shouldn't be replaced with just shrubs like that. That's worth treating like we're talking to smaller trees Linda Hansen: for that. smaller trees. yes.
Sean Fair: Okay. Any other feedback for Linda to give? Give them on on this so we can get this thing passed.
Unknown: Cool. Oh. sorry. I just one more thought. because it came up today. and again. maybe we don't write this in but the topic had come up with. is it Charena? Charena Road. Karina. You know. dead trees. invasive trees? Do we need to replace those? And this is something that could come up. because. unfortunately. there's bittersweet choking trees everywhere. and trees that look dead. but they still have some life in them. And you know. again. we can't write into this regulation and keep it simple and try to you. To try to address every single possible scenario. But has this. my question to you guys is. Has this come up before. like. do I need to replace this dead tree? Do I need to replace. you know. this Norway maple? Should we have some just general language about that? Like. subject to review. but that's something that I would think would come up quite a bit. Linda Hansen: Oh. yeah. I mean. again. that's. that's Sean's comment about. you know. give them an inch. they'll take a mile. So we have to be pretty careful with that. I don't want to regulate dead trees. I don't want to regulate Norway or Maples or a Tree of Heaven. But I think our purpose here is to regulate and manage tree. you know. a healthy tree canopy. And so. I mean. I think we should keep that. that narrow focus. at least. and not start branching out. And I mean. again. I don't consider a tree that has bittersweet on it dead. It's if it has a canopy. it's still alive. you know. So I. you know. I don't. I'm not. I'm not swayed by that argument. Let's just say that so Shannon Fischer: I know I like I've spoken with an arborist who does a lot of native restoration. And you know. you flail Mo. you do it when the ground is frozen. It's not going to disrupt things as much. You paint the thicker stumps of the bittersweet with Triclopyr. You see what comes up like it. It takes a cycler too. but the tree can absolutely come back from that. Linda Hansen: Yep. All right. let's move on here. Sean Fair: Yeah. oh. we got one quick raise hand. Someone raise a hand. One second. make sure it's not for this. Unknown: Vanessa. Hi. can you hear me? Yes. I'll keep this quick. because I know it's late and you guys want to go to bed. I kind of just identify yourself. please. Oh yeah. yes. Sorry. I should know this by now. Vanessa. Jason. 11. Charena. I actually have. like. a random comment that has nothing to do. I mean. you guys know I love trees. but that has nothing to do with 193 and I was just kind of. um. is it okay if I say something. or does it have to relate to that good? Yep. Okay. I just wanted to let you guys know I tried to get in touch with the town manager. but his email bounced back to me twice. So I figured. well. I was fair. I would say something. but there is a pretty hardy patch of Japanese knotweed on the conservation trails. actually. like. right on the other side of 13 Charena. is that? So could we. like do something about that? Or do you guys. like care about those things? Because it's. it was there last year. and I didn't say anything. and now it's like doubled in size. Linda Hansen: Well. let me just say that you're probably never going to win. win the fight with Japanese knotweed. However. you know. we. I don't. I don't permit invasive removal. I don't think we should be permitting invasive removal. We should encourage it. And and all the. all the places. workshops I've been and. you know. with discussion about how to eradicate that. I think the one thing that was people had some success with is mowing it like it's grass. You know. don't let the thing grow at all. Don't let any energy go down into the root system. You know. no photosynthesis all. Just keep mowing it and mowing it and mowing it and mowing it all summer and. you know. you just weakening it. is what you're doing. And I mean. it might pop up somewhere else. but. I mean. the other methods for like putting eye drop. you know. eye drop by eye drop. it herbicide into each each stock is just way too time consuming and possible. basically. But. you know. I've done that in my neighborhood. I just. I pull. I pull a lot of stuff. I mow it all down. And. you know. it's the plot has very much diminished from what it was years ago. But again. it's. it's. you know. you gotta. you gotta. you have to do something you can manage. you know. something. something that's not super. super time consuming. Shannon Fischer: So is this. Unknown: just to be clear. it's on. it's on conservation land. It's not on my property. So I didn't know if that was something that I don't know who maintains the it's right. that's like. basically right on one of the trails where on greenways. yeah. on greenways. it's. it's like. so random. I don't know if maybe there was. like. some clippings or something that got there from. you know. one time. but it's like. in a really random spot. and it hasn't spread too far yet. so I thought maybe it was worth mentioning. But yeah. it's on one of the greenways trails. It's like on the other side of 13 Charena. where the neighborhood. like. kind of where you guys were doing your site visit? It's right up there. Yeah. Linda Hansen: Sadly. that's most that's owned by the Select Board. So the Conservation Commission doesn't mean. oh. okay. so that's svt. I'm not sure they do much in that area. either they're they're focusing their efforts on the other side of greenways. And so we maintain 1200 acres. We really can't take on somebody else's property. Unknown: Okay. I'm sorry. I thought that was in your jurisdiction.
Linda Hansen: That goes back to Sean. I think is asked a number of times. I want you to just give it to conservation to manage. you know. and but I think they're holding out for maybe they want to develop it. I don't know. but. Sean Fair: but Vanessa. if you don't mind. send to the Select Board. you say. Hey. your patch of greenways needs some some updating. and see if that that may help spur some Linda Hansen: things. But. yeah. okay. the whole property is nothing but buckthorn at this point. I'm well aware.
Unknown: Yeah. okay. so Wayland Select Board would be the person. Yeah. interesting. Okay. thank you. I didn't know that. I'm sorry. Sean Fair: I appreciate it. Unknown: All right. good night. guys.
Sean Fair: Okay. so we have 193 set to go. 3b vote to appoint chair and vice chair positions. So I think I've spoken to most or all of you. Here's kind of where we landed this. This is for realsies. This time I said I wouldn't do this again. But
there's we talked about implementing a system. right? And so I think I've been chair house coming to my eighth year. way too long. right? Should only be a year or two. So we thought maybe having kind of like a musical chairs and kind of ascending up. right? You become Vice Chair. Kind of get your feet wet next year. your chair. you roll off. back in line. and we kind of have this automotive assembly line kind of thing going and again. I'll let Shannon speak for herself. but I said I would sit one more time as chair for another year. so Shannon can kind of possibly sit as vice chair. learn the ropes. see all that kind of fun stuff. with the intent that next year. again. typically this happens at the end of June. right? Is when that technically should happen. We're late for whole host reasons. And then Shannon would take over chair and move up. And so a is that. for those who I spoke with. is that what we discussed. spoke with. does idea sound good to everybody? Any violent objections. any moat. and we'll start there. and we'll wait for the motions. But thoughts on that system? Luke Legere: Yeah. that's. sounds like what we talked about. Sean. I think that makes sense. It's only fair nobody should have to do this for a decade.
Shannon Fischer: Yeah. I'd ask you to clue me in a little bit. like. you know. like. loop me in on what you're doing a little bit as you do this so I can see what what you do. Sean Fair: Yeah. you mean like. during the week when I'm not. yeah. Shannon Fischer: when you're cheering. like. tell me you know the like. let me know if I'm taking on the Vice Chair. I should know all the ins and outs. and then Luke gets to be vice chair after me.
Sean Fair: Okay. so yes. Shannon. your point. I'm happy Unknown: to the vice chair doesn't automatically. has never automatically gone up to chair. right? Sean Fair: Yeah. 100% right. Barbara. I guess my thinking is and for those newbies. My predecessor. Sherry. had done it for for several years before I was asked to kind of do that. And so if. again. no one's gonna ever have a gun to their head. right? So never want to make someone do anything. But if we know. it's my opinion. if people coming to this commission board know. hey. typically this how it goes. newbies gotta get several years to get their drink from the fire hydrant of information before they're asked to do anything of significance that way. at least speaking selfishly. saying this. you know as well. too. Barbara. it's nice to know. okay. there's a light in the tunnel. and I'm not going to get. you know. leave another year stuck in that spot. necessarily. without people having the skills release. understanding what goes on. And so again. the intent is. that's the but no one's gonna have a gun to their head once get kicked off if they don't. But that's. Unknown: does she want it? Who? Sean Fair: Shannon? Shannon. oh. yeah. Jenny. speak. yeah. yeah. Shannon Fischer: Want is a strong word. but I'll take it off. Yeah. Sean Fair: Does anybody. by the way. anybody want this chair? Maybe. if that's the case. let's end this conversation right now. We can just Unknown: go put us to bed to be vice Sean Fair: Yeah. yes. you know. yeah. She I spoke about that. Yeah. This is not. Not throwing anybody. But I guess for. I guess for the rest of us. other than Shannon myself. does that sound like a decent system where next June. in theory. will be voting for Shannon to be chair. I get to go sit in the back of the bus for a little bit. and someone else gets moved into vice and that. So I guess are we all okay with that system in theory. hopefully in practice. but in theory. we'll green like that. and then we'll start with who wants to be nominated for this year. and go Luke Legere: from there. I like it. okay? Sean Fair: So I guess I'm not gonna make the most we would in theory that if we're doing that. make the motion for Shannon to be vice me to stay as chair. That system be implemented moving forward. Is that? Thank you. Luke. Do I hear a second or objections Unknown: that can think it Sean Fair: sounds like Jenny. okay. I guess for we'll go for a roll call. Then Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke was here. yes. Barb Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. and Sean fair is a yes. Okay. Shan. hop in the seat. Goose. here we go. Public comment. I think we got them all double check. We'll go to that. Oh. I see a hand up. All right. sorry. Carry my screen over here. Carole. one second. Carole. you there? Carole Plumb: I am here. and I have just the comment of. do you have a date set for when the Snake Brook Dam repairs are actually going to start? Or do we have to wait for the money to actually show up in the account? Linda Hansen: No. we don't have a date. We still have to go out to bid. Carole. um. you know. there were some of us are optimistic that there's. you know. the FEMA money still coming. and there's a couple of us that are probably pretty pessimistic that that we're never going to see that money. I did let the Commission know last week that we did receive an $884.000 grant from the Office of Dam safety. and that was meant to be the match for the FEMA grant. And I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss this with town manager and the finance director of how we're going to proceed with this. because I think we really need to get started. I am sort of lost all. you know. hope that we're ever going to see any FEMA money. I mean. based on all the news. it sounds like that whole budget has been overspent already. So I. you know. I just really don't. I think Michael is going to try to have one more call with FEMA. just to see if. you know. there's even a slightest bit of hope of getting the funding. But I. it's. it's. I'm probably pessimistic camp. so Carole Plumb: yeah. no. I'm. you know where I stand on this whole thing. So I think I will check in with you and see how it goes tomorrow. I need to show up at a Select Board meeting and remind them what they promised. I'm more than happy to do that. because I really agree with you that I don't think we're going to see that money coming. That's just asking too much. All right. thank you. It's getting pedal. Linda Hansen: I think that was really good news that we did. I never expected to get the money from office of dam safety for $884.000 so that does you know that puts a big dent in the 1.4 million that you know we were hoping to get from FEMA. so
Sean Fair: we'll see love it when I find $800.000 finding my jeans pockets all the time. Linda Hansen: All right. moving on. Sean Fair: Where are we on to five A approving minutes. Babs. how are we feeling for the August 20 minutes. You good. Barbara. you have your vote of approval for the Linda Hansen: minutes. but she provided comments Tom today. so yeah. Okay. Sean Fair: Anybody else have any thoughts? Comments? That's good. So do approve with uh. Barbara's amendments. So moved Thank you. Luke. do I hear a second?
Unknown: Second? Sean Fair: Think I heard Shannon roll call please? Luke Legere. yes. Janet Fisher. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Lisa opine. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. Anything else? Linda on your docket? Oh. no. why do I talk around a little bit? I mean. no. I really want to go Linda Hansen: to bed. No stories. Want to be here any longer. Sean Fair: So all right with that. Thank you. All kind of quick motion to adjourn. So moved Thank you. Luke 12 seconds. I heard somebody a second. Who's that? Who's Barbara? Barbara. Thanks. Barbara. Last roll call tonight. Luke Legere. yes. Shannon Fisher. yes. Barbara. Howell. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Lisa opine. yes. John Frazier. Yes. awesome. Thanks. guys. Take care. Bye.
Luke Legere: yes. I move that we continue the hearing under both the state act on chapter 194. to September. 24 after 6:30pm
Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. do I second? Thank you. Babs. quick roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa Aubin. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. Linda. Okay. on to 1b this is 397. Boston Post Road. It's known as Russell's DEP file number 322. dash. 1048. it's a continued notes of intent file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection Bylaw and the wells protection accident by Dan Sean for the after the fact of paving work and installation of stormwater management at 397. Boston Post Road and 99 Pelham Island Road and Wayland mass. the proposed work is with a 200 foot riverfront area under foot buffer zone of our boring. vegetative wetlands property has shown assessors. Map. 23 parcel. 004. and 015. Linda. I'll Linda Hansen: pass it off to Andy Irwin. I think who's representing the client on this project? Andy Irwin: Yes. good evening. Andy Irwin. 73 plain Road. Wayland. representing Russell's garden center. At our last meeting. we were asked to meet with Linda and go over what options we could consider to improve our plan. And we had that meeting. we listened. and we've submitted a revised design package. I could share my screen if they want me to show you the highlights of that. if I can figure out how to share. Is it under the More Emily.
Linda Hansen: you just if you move your curse around at the bottom. Andy Irwin: Sure. there we go. Yeah. so and sure people are seeing my screen now. yes. sir. okay with the plan. Namely. the plan is to reduce the total amount of paving. In particular. we have taken areas here on the western side. what was referred to as area B. and we've taken the areas within the 100 foot riverfront area and reverting those to pervious surface. so that includes the portion of Area B. all of this Parking Area C. we have also taken an area that was not part of the finding as far as work without a approval. but pavement that had been installed long. Long ago. and a portion of this walkway through the nursery area. approaching. but not quite all the way up to the 100 foot river front zone. changing that from pervious. impervious to previous surface. The other feature of our change was to make sure that we increased our collection of storm water to the treatment basin. And for that. we're installing a diversion berm across the driveway here on the left hand. West hand western side. left hand side of the screen. and that it will be a paved berm. sloped so that we can not kill cars. but gives us the containment of water. and it's on existing impervious. So we're adding no impervious with that installation. And then we have. you see this line here? This is be a small earthen berm. It's only need to be a few inches in terms of just making an affirmative collection of the water towards the treatment basement over here behind the nursery in the center. The modification of the basin is as it was. in terms of providing the adequate rate and quantity controls back to pre existing conditions. We have no significant change here in the we call the potting basin over more to the right. where we can have some water that sheds off that way. So we have no rate and quantity increase with that portion of runoff. And similarly. we had. over here to the right. the compensatory flood storage volume. So for the accounting of the areas by interval. we are providing full and in excess flood storage volume for that which was filled with the paving. we presented a complete. a updated hydraulic report. I don't know. Does anybody wants to go through all of that? I'll leave it if there are questions. But that is the nature of our project to restore conditions here at Russell's garden center. Sean Fair: Thank you. Appreciate it. Linda. start with you. please. You're on mute. by the way. just in case. Linda Hansen: Linda. no. A few questions regarding the riverfront alterations. So in the previous submittal. you had 200 or 2963 square feet of riverfront alterations. and 988 of that was in the first 100 feet. And your narrative says that capture you're talking now you're capturing drainage from 2600 13.000 square feet. So is that? Is that the operation in the 200 foot riverfront area? Andy Irwin: Then. yes. Linda Hansen: Okay. so why did that go up from the previous Andy Irwin: with the berm that goes across the driveway making making sure that we were catching portions on the pavement that increased our catchment area.
Linda Hansen: okay. but it catchment area. but not necessarily impervious area. correct? Andy Irwin: We're getting additional flow that's coming off of the potting area here further to the west. Okay. that now gets captured and and collected. But our. our alteration of the inner. inner 100 foot riparian zone is now reduced to where we are adding no new impervious. okay? Inner riparian zone. okay? And in fact. we are giving an additional area. And pardon me. oh. I just can't read it as far as two. It
Unknown: I think you just muted yourself. Well. you just Sean Fair: muted yourself there. Andy.
Andy Irwin: okay. so we pardon me. so we have actually reduced and an additional 250 square feet of pervious area in the inner riparian zone with the proposed plan. Linda Hansen: Well. for permitting purpose. can I get a final value of the total riverfront alteration? Then. is that? Because what you're giving me here is 2613 that used. You're calling that the drainage area. yes. but what. what I'm going to need for the permit is. is River. total riverfront alteration. which now looks like it's all outside. It's in the 100 to 200 foot area. right? Yes. okay. because I don't see that in here. unless I miss that. Andy Irwin: I will integrate that area for you. And okay. Linda Hansen: and then and more on numbers in one section of your report. you state that. let's see this is under water quality. Yes. you say you modified stormwater basin would be constructed and will raise the elevation from 115 to 116 and we'll have an approximate storage of 1032 cubic feet. Is that an additional volume? Because. then. because earlier you say in page. what is it? One that the nursery storage basin will increase from approximately 7300 to 8100. and the greenhouse will increase from 3600 to 4450. but that's. is that. again. what you're presenting in one is just? Is that an increase. or is that the total? Andy Irwin: I think so. Part of that is the total as far as the areas of those basins. So
Linda Hansen: what you have in four does not necessarily match what you have on page one. So that's why I just. I was just asking. Okay.
Andy Irwin: I do not have that number at my fingertips. That's all I can. Certainly follow up with you on that. And that basically areas the change versus the total of the basins. Yep.
Unknown: Okay. Linda. anything else. Linda Hansen: yeah. I mean. I. I've looked at your. your flood. compensatory flood. compensatory flood. volume. But again. without. I. you know. I just. I guess I. it looks good. I didn't get. I didn't have a chance to do really in depth review of that. But as far as I can tell. that's that should be good again. We. you know. I'm not looking at the hydro cat at this point because I the ability to do that. Andy Irwin: But we have provided the incremental quantities. as far as the compensatory flood storage areas and volumes over here on the left of the page. Linda Hansen: yes. it's in the narrative also. okay.
Sean Fair: Linda. from your end. I'm good commission. thoughts. comments. questions.
Luke Legere: concerns. Yes. I'll jump in. I appreciate the reduction in the impervious certainly. anytime we're talking storm water. I guess you know. Linda. I just want to make sure you're comfortable with what you're seeing. That it all I think it all makes sense. It doesn't seem like this is a massive new stormwater management system or anything like that. but just make sure you're comfortable with this. Wouldn't want to have a peer review or anything like that? Linda Hansen: Well. we did vote to have a peer review for the last meeting. and then they made these changes. So I think that that's a decision the Conservation Commission still needs to make about pursuing a peer review. I mean. from what I can tell. I guess Andy can weigh in this too. It looks like it's designed for a 10 year storm. It has the capacity for a 10 year storm. The beside. other than that. I think everything would probably discharge to the pond. that small pond on the east. or the west of the of the parking area. is that correct? Andy Irwin: That is. there is portion that will discharge there. I will note that that pond is not the river itself. We pointed out that that that is a an isolated water body that doesn't have a direct connection to the low flow channel of the stream. There was someone had asked that question. and I covered that in my narrative.
Luke Legere: And I'm assuming Linda. forgetting this off the top of my head. I'm looking in the materials now. but this is all previously degraded riverfront. We're talking about here. yeah. being familiar with the site. I imagine that would have to be the case. Yeah. Linda Hansen: My calculation is it's about 60. Five to 69% altered already the riverfront area. existing buildings and parking areas and everything. So it's. it's really not changing that much. I mean the by obviously adding. adding pavement changes things. but it's already been degraded with. you know. as a gravel parking area prior to that. Unknown: So. yeah. historically. right?
Luke Legere: Okay. yeah. I don't really have any other questions beyond that. I guess maybe it's just worth the commission considering whether we still think a peer review is necessary. or if we're comfortable with with this ourselves. right? Sean Fair: So let's come back to that real quick. the peer review piece. commission. Anybody else have any thoughts. comments. questions. concerns. before we circle back to that question and bring that up?
Unknown: We're good. I Shannon Fischer: think so. I think the only thing I want to just make sure doesn't get fall completely off the radar is that. I think in one of the first iterations of the plans. There was a seed mix proposed. and it had some non native seeds in there. And I think we just want to make sure that whatever is put down is is going to be native. especially on that. you know. anywhere we're planting new to to catch water.
Linda Hansen: Okay. Oh. I do have one last thing. I didn't notice this before. Andy. but you say no changes were made to EDA two or PDA two. Can you point that out in the plan? Because I must be blind. but I didn't see that letter that's on the first page of the letter. It is. I
Andy Irwin: uh. this was the existing drainage Linda Hansen: area. You're referring to drainage Okay. yeah. Andy Irwin: So those are the drainage areas. As far as drainage area. this was existing. and if you notice the area on the left increases. that's the surface area that is increased in terms of catchment with this.
Linda Hansen: Okay. no. it just says changes were made to this. and I didn't know what you would refer to those Okay. existing and versus the proposed. I get it. Andy Irwin: Okay. sorry for all the scrolling there. people. Nope. you're good. Fish. Sean Fair: Anything else. we're good to go back. circle back to Luke. So now we need to talk about. do we need a peer reviews of Linda? I guess I'll start with you. just on your overall thoughts. comments. opinions on that. and then we can kind of kick off the mission. Linda Hansen: I mean. I think we had a productive meeting. Andy and I did. and he did address all my concerns and pulled everything out of the 100 feet. which I think is important. I think that's one area that. you know. the state really wants us to protect the riverfront. and he's picking up. he's picking up a lot of the runoff from that again. I just don't have the ability to review a hydro CAD plan because I just don't have the software. I don't have the background for this. the engineering. you know. background for this. So it's up to the Commission decide whether or not they feel that's important to have that reviewed. Sean Fair: Got it? Thank you. Commission ever kind of know what we're being asked or think about real quick. And if there are no question about that. I'll speak last we build a thought comment concerned on whether or not we would like to see a peer review on that.
Luke Legere: Well. I guess I'm somewhat on the fence. I think. you know. as I alluded to earlier. I think the changes that have been made are certainly for the better. I feel a lot more comfortable with what we're looking at now than what had been proposed previously. But to Linda's point. you know. I think when. when we start getting into heavy duty engineering. given the proximity to the river. I guess I'm. I don't. I don't want to be overly harsh in terms of requiring a peer review. but I also want to make sure everything's going to work the way it's designed and supposed to. And I just doesn't seem like there's anybody on our side of the table who's able to really definitively weigh in on that. so I'm tending to lean in favor of having this peer reviewed. but curious to hear what everyone else thinks. Unknown: Okay. thanks. Luke. Thoughts. Shannon Fischer: I think I'm really with Luke. I'm on the fence like these are good changes. but this is so far outside of the area certainly my expertise to to know for sure where the where the waters are going. Yeah. I'm with Luke. Andy Irwin: May I just offer some commentary. just in terms of observation. That these basins are existing. we are adding a very. relatively percentage wise. small area of impervious to this area. It's not like we're doing a new development with. you know. new stormwater basins. And will they work to that extent. you know. the proportion of increase to these basins as you look at relative to the percentage of impervious increase it. it's in that magnitude that just in terms of. I'm not telling you not. but I'm just saying we're giving that area. we're giving that treatment with what we're doing. So from that standpoint. it is. in proportion. not as drastic as many other sites where we're having a new development with. well. what and how will the runoff work? This is runoff that has been basically flowing through this path. We're just making the additional accommodation for rate with the additional size of the basin and in the degree of infiltration in those basins as well in terms of retention.
Sean Fair: Thanks. Commission. Other thoughts or before I plan.
Luke Legere: got okay. I appreciate those comments. Thank you. Mr. When I think it kind of it sort of back to my original point there. I don't. don't want to make a mountain out of Mohawk with this. but I also just want to make sure we're getting it right. so I still sort of landing in the same place. Yep. Shannon Fischer: Is there a middle ground of like. no. a quick review that just kind of checks things. but isn't a huge. expensive affair. Like. is there a way that we could get the review and not add a ton of expense and time? Sean Fair: I mean. at this point. if we not to weigh in. yeah. but if we were to give them a ask for a peer review. we're asking that peer review to design something for us from score Azure. It's Hey. check our math. Here we go. Is there anything we're missing? So in terms of time for peer review. I wouldn't imagine it wouldn't be as much as some of our other things we've asked to have reviewed or designed or whatever else. That's Linda. is that fair? You're on mute. Linda. you're talking speaking.
Linda Hansen: I mean. typically. our scope. so we're always. you know. compliance with the chapter 193 bylaw. which is our stormwater bylaw. You know that we. that we use. you know. that's. that's everybody has to comply with who's doing stormwater management. But you know. you know. we can. we can scale down the scope a little bit to say. just. just take a look at the calculations and tell me if business is going to work right. Sean Fair: Yep. Anybody else in the Commission have any thoughts before I went? So I guess I I'm with Luke and Shannon. and especially Shannon. the most recent point is. I don't want this to be a ton of work. I don't want to be arduous. Just a real quick check our math with such a nice resource right there. I'd hate to have a whoops of Daisy. We missed math mistake like. you know. a year from now. so I'd be in favor to have a quick as possible peer review. just to make sure we're on the same page. If we get that kind of helps solidify our thoughts on our end. So that's kind of where I am. So base commission. Any other thoughts. comments. thoughts. opinions. concerns. Before we go to vote on this. look for Unknown: being being new. You know. I would like to take the more conservative route. So since several of you are saying it might be good to have a peer review. and if it can be ratcheted down. I think that would be good. And I. even though this is my first official meeting. I've dialed into a few of the previous meetings where Russell says presented. and I I can see that they've been working very closely with Linda and coming back with them with solutions. So. you know. we appreciate the cooperation. but I would agree. I think if we can do a ratcheted down peer review. that sounds good. Awesome. Sean Fair: Thanks. Lisa. Okay. So that's where we're looking. or leaning commission looking. then for a motion to that effect.
Luke Legere: So just. I think we had. Linda. you said this earlier. I think too. right. we had. we had previously voted to have this peer reviewed? Yes. So do we need another vote? Do you need us to vote just to limit. to try to limit the scope to as narrow a review as possible? Linda Hansen: Well. not necessarily. I mean. I can work with Andy offline just coming up with a sort of a ratcheted down scope of work and maybe elicit potential peer reviewers and see if they have. A conflict of interest with any of them and and then we can move forward at that point. Sean Fair: So. so we're looking for that is usually looking for. basically a motion to continue. In the meantime. work with Andy to get the peer review started. Does that make sense? Yeah. So make sure you're what motion looking for. So we're looking for a motion to continuance. and you work with Andy the period. Got it Luke Legere: Okay. all right. We. I guess the question is. Mr. Irwin. do you want us to continue this to the next meeting. which is only a couple weeks out? It seems unrealistic to me that this Andy Irwin: I was. I was going to ask Linda's thoughts about the timing of getting such a review limited though it may be. my sense has been that the reviewing firms have been very busy. such that one meeting out would probably not give us enough time. Linda Hansen: Yeah. we have the meeting schedule a little bit condensed this month to two weeks. because normally do three weeks because of holidays. we were trying to. you know. you know. schedule things so that we're missing Thanksgiving and Columbus and all these other weeks and school vacations and stuff. Andy Irwin: So then in October. the Emily. Linda Hansen: When's our meeting in October.
Unknown: give me a second.
Carole Plumb: I think it's the Unknown: second week in Linda Hansen: October. I should have it here too. So. Unknown: October 8. October 8.
Luke Legere: Okay. October 8. Does that sound reasonable? Mr. Andy Irwin: Owen. let me just I don't know. I'm not I can't see if Tim and Dan are on. Unknown: yeah. we're here. That works for me. Does that work for you? Checking. okay. perfect. Yeah. looks like I'm open. Andy Irwin: Okay. that works for us. Thank you. So with that. to allow the commission to do the conduct the peer review. we're okay with the continuance to the October 8 meeting. Luke Legere: Okay. thank you very much. Then I would move that we continue this hearing to October eight after 6:30pm
Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. To hear a second. Thank you. Babs. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa Auburn. yes. by the way. Jenny Brown came on the middle of this as well. Jenny Brown. yes. thank you. And Sean fair is a yes. all set. Thanks. folks. We'll see you in a couple few weeks. Okay. thank you. You got it.
Unknown: Okay. moving along Sean Fair: onto 1c this is 169 rice road. Linda. do we have a DEP number here? I do not. Carole Plumb: There is. it's 1053. Linda Hansen: oh. it just came on. Okay. yep. 53 Sean Fair: Okay. so this is 169 rice road DEP file number 322. dash. 1053. this is a Notice of Intent file pursuant to Wayland wetlands and water resource protection by law and the Wetlands Protection Act submitted by Saint fellow patter. Saint mercurious and Saint Mina Coptic. or Orthodox Church for the work at 169 rice road and Wayland mass. The proposed work includes a demolition of existing church and construction of three new buildings. parking surfaces. a courtyard. a sports field and storm water management systems. The project is in with a 200 foot riverfront area and the 100 foot buffer zone of a boarding vegetative wetlands property is shown on assessors map 40 parcel 08. Linda. Linda Hansen: I believe we have Andrew presenting for the for the applicant. Is that correct? Unknown: Yes. it is correct. And actually. before I kick this off. we have quite a few members of the project team who I believe are on this call as attendees. if we would be able to promote them to panelists. We have our architects. our engineers. our landscape architects. everybody's with us to present their pieces. okay?
Linda Hansen: SEAN MALONE is one of them. Is Unknown: that right? Yep. SEAN MALONE is our engineer. We have. Can you move this over? It might be easiest if they raise their hands. because they actually Linda Hansen: have quite a few of them. Yeah? What they raise their hands might be easier. Yeah. yeah. Unknown: instead of making you play name tag. thank you. Yeah. Do
Sean Fair: I miss anybody? I.
Linda Hansen: There's somebody called SP I don't
Sean Fair: see anybody with their hands in there. Missing anybody.
Unknown: I'm Sean lane and representing DSK. the architects. text.
Sean Fair: Okay. we all set everybody else needs to be on on here. Unknown: Andrew. I believe so it looks like we have people from all parties here. So if there's anybody else. they can raise their hands. But I believe we're good to go. Um. I believe it was Sean Lennon. intent just to kick this off briefly. and then we'll all be happy to share our pieces with the Commission. Yeah. Good evening. everybody. I'm Sean lane and from Studio DSK. and just want to thank you for the opportunity to present the project. I wanted to present our team who is joining us tonight. I have Andrew. of course. from Goddard. I have Sean Malone from Oak consulting. and then also Naomi Cottrell and Caitlyn vend van de meelb from Crowley. Cottrell landscape architects.
our goal with the design of the project has been basically to create a campus that reflects the traditions of the Coptic Orthodox Church. and we wanted to be sensitive to the surrounding neighborhood and the landscape. As you may know about this site. it slopes from Rice road up to Turkey Hill. And what we've done is we've tucked essentially three buildings into the hillside. And the first building. which will be in a phased construction. it will be the church. There is a second building that should follow about three to five years after. which is essentially a recreational building with classrooms in it at one end. and then the there is a another annex to that. which also has classrooms and a senior housing portion in the third building would be the diocese building.
The design that we have come up with essentially works with the topography in that it sits in against the hillside. and it does have some. some tall towers on the church. which we were trying to be sensitive to the Turkey Hill neighborhood by keeping it at the lowest point when the site's complete. Basically. we want it to feel like it is. It's been there. and in that it fits in and compliments. you know. the architecture. We realize that there's a stream on the opposite side of of rice road. and the setbacks reach across the road. and we do have parking that sits in the setback area. We have maintained the the trees that are in that zone. and we have shifted the driveway there is. there are two driveways off of rice road right now. One is a two way that is considered the main driveway. And I believe that's 28 feet wide. There was a driveway off of the existing property onto Turkey Hill. That one has been eliminated. and it has been moved over to the north end of rice road on the site. And that is a one way. It's for exiting the property. and you can only turn right out of that. heading north on on rice road. That's essentially it. I would like to turn it over to Andrew to essentially go over the wetlands. and if we have any other questions. I'm available to to answer.
Perfect. Thank you. Sean. can the commission see my screen? Okay. yes. perfect. So what we see here. I'll start off with the existing conditions plan that was filed as part of the Notice of Intent. So as Sean has described. this property is currently in use and developed as as the Orthodox Church. This lot is about five and a half acres. so the the bottom half is is fully developed. As noted. there are three driveway entrances that come in from Rice road. There's existing parking our church building. And a playground at present. and the remainder of the lot slopes up gradient toward Turkey Hill Road. So we have no wetland resource areas that are actually present on this lot itself. Most notable that the commission would have seen in the Notice of Intent filing. when you review the maps of the property. there is a map potential vernal pool that comes up in the area of my cursor here. actually directly adjacent to where you guys would see test bed 11. It was mapped as a potential vernal pool on the the aerial photography by mass mapper. So May of this year. during vernal pool season. our wetland scientists went up to the property just to take a look at it. We confirmed that in this area there are actually no wetland resource areas at all. It continues to slope up gradient right off the parking lot all the way up. There's no evidence of hydro soils. leaf standing. certainly no vernal pool activity. Our best guess is that there's a shadow that can be seen on the aerial and that can get picked up at times as a potential vernal pool. So we did submit a report to the commission that assessed that area and made sure that that was discussed. The resource areas that we do have are all across the street. so rice road bisects the property from the resource areas. Once you cross over rice road from our property. it becomes a very steep slope. So we have quite a steep embankment that changes at least 10 feet in grade. And right at the toe of a slope is a border and vegetative wetland system. And further interior to that is a perennial stream known as snakebrook. So because these resource areas are across the street. the bylaw no disturb zones under Chapter 194 do not reach this property. And neither does the 100 foot inner riparian zone that we could see on my cursor right here. It ends through rice road before it reaches our subject site. And so what we are dealing with on this property is the 100 foot buffer zone that we see on my cursor here that clips the edges of the property and the 200 foot riverfront area that comes through portions of the existing parking lot and some of the driveway entrances. So I will give a brief overview of the proposed conditions of the project. I know Sean did a good job explaining in a bit more detail the intentions of the project. but the project intends to propose three new buildings through an expanded redevelopment that redevelops portions of the site that are currently developed. as well as expanding the development up into the hillside of the property. So the intent is to construct three new buildings on the property through a three phase development plan with new driveways. parking surfaces. a sports field. courtyard and a stormwater management system. So as Sean had mentioned. this is phased through three phases. So phase one consists of all of the work that is within the 100 foot riverfront area. or the 100 foot buffer zone and the 200 foot riverfront area. So phase one includes building a. which is the new church building itself. the reworking of the parking surfaces. utilities. stormwater management. the athletic field. septic so the main site work. the main infrastructure and building a. all are under phase one. Phase Two includes the construction of Building B that we see here that's to be used for a proposed Youth Center. Sunday school and senior housing. That building is located outside of the 100 foot buffer zone and the 200 foot riverfront area. as can be seen. And phase three is the construction of Building C. which is intended to be used as the diocese center. and it's also outside of all of the jurisdictional buffer zones and the riverfront area for the property. So as we had outlined. we are proposing to construct new driveway entrances into the property. reducing from the three that come in and exit from various sides to two. So this figure that we see here was included as part of the Notice of Intent. And what it does is it highlights all the existing impervious surface cover within the riverfront area and the newly proposed and so it helps us come up with our riverfront area graphics. And so what we are determined was that this yields about a 913 square feet of increase of impervious surfaces within the riverfront area. it doesn't move closer than existing conditions. because rice road bisects the property. and we have existing driveways that come from Rice road. We aren't moving any closer to the river. but there is an increase in the impervious surface footprint within the riverfront area. and so under riverfront redevelopment standards. we would have to provide mitigation attitude one ratio for doing so. And so as part of the Notice of Intent. the Commission received an invasive species and mitigation planting plan that Goddard prepared. So what we had done is. because this lot is primarily developed within the riverfront area. under 310. CMR. 10. five. 8g we looked for off site opportunities to restore the riverfront area. and we found about a 4000 square foot section up gradient of the river itself. consisting of the wetlands in the buffer zone where it's pretty densely vegetated with invasive species. primarily species like glossy buckthorn. oriental bittersweet species of that nature. And we propose to hand remove those species and replant them with native. Vegetation. So that 4000 square feet is a bit over a four to one ratio of mitigation to the increase in impervious surfaces that are generated by the project. So at a high level. that's the overview of the project. We also have our engineer Sean Malone. and we have our landscape architects as well. who are going to discuss their pieces. So I'm happy to kick it over now to Sean to discuss the stormwater side of the project. All right. thank you. Andrew. and let me see if I can share my screen here.
Okay. I'll be brief. Just wanted to give everyone a brief rundown of the storm water and what we were looking at on site and what we're proposing to deal with the storm water. Currently. the site sheds down to Rice road. and we identified three kind of distinct sub catchments. This first sub catchment draining over towards the entrance from Turkey Hill Road. which then flows to this catch basin in rice road. a second sub catchment that flows down the center of the site. down the main entrance to this catch basin. And then there's a high point in rice road about here. where it splits north and south. so a third sub catchment goes to the south into this catch basin here. So what we wanted to do is to make sure that we design a storm water system so as not to increase the flow to any any of these catch basins. So the overall site proposes approximately three acres of new impervious area. And what this plan shows is the post development sub catchments. And as you can see. there's several. We have three in the pre development. and we have about. I think. 10 or 12 in the post development here. So what this represents is where we've broken into smaller drainage areas where they're picked up by deep some catch basin basin to provide pre treatment. And then all of this area. with the some small exceptions I'll point out in a moment. drain to a subsurface infiltration area underneath the sports field. this proposed sports field here. and second subsurface infiltration area underneath the parking lot here. and what these areas are going to consist of is large diameter. two foot or three foot. perforated HP. HDP pipe surrounded in stone. And to ensure that these systems would work. we did about 14 test pits out there. We dovetailed this with the test pits we did for the new septic system. and we found that the soils in these areas are nice gravels. very coarse sands. All the perk tests that we did out there were. I think. three or four minutes or less. Some were less than two minutes per inch. So we're going to be able to drain these this site and the new impervious to these infiltration areas and get that storm water back into the ground. The only areas that I mentioned that are not being captured by this new storm water system is this area here. three A. which is existing wooded area that's remaining. This area three or two a. which is same situation. existed wooded area to remain. and then the area of the grass sports field. So the net effect of all this is we're going to see a net reduction in both the rate and the volume of stormwater to Rice road. And this reduction is going to be significant. We're looking at 75 to 85% reduction in the rate and volume of stormwater coming off this site. So we also have included in our submission. construction. erosion. sedimentation controls. We have a erosion control notes and details sheet. so we think that we meet all of the requirements of the chapter 193 with this storm water and sedimentation control plan. With that. I'd like to turn it over to Caitlin and Naomi to talk a little bit about the landscaping and trees on site.
Hi. I'm Caitlin with credit cultural and let me just share my screen. You. Okay. so I'm just going to talk about the planting plan. This line is showing the 200 foot buffer for the riparian zone. and you'll see that the largest density of plants is within that zone. We're following the requirements of chapter 194 and meeting those requirements primarily through large deciduous shrubs as well as evergreen trees and large canopy trees. We think that this will help to buffer the development from this road. as well as help with any runoff that occurs as far as the rest of the site that is under Chapter 193 and we are actually exceeding the requirements. As far as planting. we're strategically having the planting primarily their canopy. trees along the perimeter. as well as shrubs along some of these steeper slopes on the edges. in order to help with erosion. And in general. we're just trying to block the building as much as we can from any of the adjacent sites. You'll see that in our submission. we have numerous tables showing how we're calculating all the tree replacement requirements. And I can answer any questions on that if you have them. But all of our replacements are all native plants. and. yeah. that's about it.
Sean Fair: Okay? Thank you. Um. Luna. we'll start with you. please.
Unknown: Linda. you're muted. You're on mute. Still on mute.
Linda Hansen: Oh. mouse is not working. sorry. beginning with this site inspection report. Do you have a wetland report. or is it just just a site inspection report. Unknown: So at this point there is just a site inspection report. The off site wetlands were delineated by dillis and Roy. who did the survey and wetlands work on the off site portions. So we can reach out to them to provide a report. and if the commission wants. we can also. if that's not available. we can come up with an additional one. but at this point we just have the site inspection report for what's actually report for what's actually on Linda Hansen: our property. Yeah. there's no dates here when. when the wetland was delineated. or the riverfront was and that's that's important to know whether or not it was. you know what time of year. when. if there was a drought. things like that. Okay? Because I'm seeing that anywhere. I guess I'm missing it. Unknown: It may not be on the plans. and we can have that added. It was this spring. because they did it around the same time as we inspected the the potential run pool area. but we can absolutely have that added to the plans and request that the report be given to the Commission as well. Linda Hansen: Okay. so then I have a question about the butter notification. You have a letter in here for a better notification. You know. the standard template that we have. typically. I'm looking for it. and I don't know was that sent out. because what we received was something completely different. Was just more a letter from the church saying. Dear community members. Welcome. Please come. you know. and with a meeting date of September 3. is that was that something different? Unknown: Yes. that would be a different notification that they had sent out to members. The notification of butters that you see there was sent out by by our office. and we have sent over the scans today. So yes. two different notifications. that both were received by by everyone in in just to clarify. Linda. I think that second notification that you were referring to was something the church reached out to the community members to introduce the project. And they did that. I think it was last week they met with their their neighbors. Linda Hansen: Okay? We did not get notification. So. so I missed. I'm guessing they. I mean. you sent me the receipts that you sent these out. It looks like they were done on August 27 but it's kind of odd that we didn't conservation. did not get there about a notification. Unknown: So. yeah. you do. I'll. I'll check into that.
Linda Hansen: See what else under. under table as part of your narrative. we talk about the wetlands or the different regulations. you state that there's a 913 square foot increase on page. let me think page 13 at the bottom. the project will result in a 900 square foot increase in impervious as a result. Yes. that is. I'm assuming you're talking in the riverfront Unknown: Yes. within the riverfront area itself. just for that was for wetlands jurisdiction. Chapter 194. would have a much different measurement. Or 193 I should say. I apologize. Linda Hansen: yeah. But then on the Notice of Intent. on page three. you say the increase is 753 Yes. it is.
Unknown: It is 913 within the riverfront area. So we'll make sure we clarify that. Linda Hansen: Okay. so what is the percent of alteration in the riverfront area? Then
Unknown: I can see if we have that on the plans. I'm not sure if we have the total riverfront area coverage on site calculated. It may be within that graphic I shared earlier. I'll take a look right now. And if we. if we don't have that available right now. then that's a calculation that we can absolutely provide to the commission. Okay? Linda Hansen: And one last thing is used an old bylaw filing fee for chapter 194 that's been since updated. I think was that last year. So I'm not sure where this came from. but all the new information should be on our website. Perfect. Unknown: Yeah. I think we had another project with you guys today that triggered that as well. And I think because we work with you guys a lot. we have databases of a bunch of the towns and their old files. so we'll just have to update that. So I apologize if that was an old Linda Hansen: one. Yeah. okay. because that that that that won't be accurate. Unknown: Yes. yeah. exactly. So we'll more view that with you. and I'll make sure you have everything updated. Linda Hansen: Okay? And
again. with Unknown: where was. Can you.
Linda Hansen: can you give me the numbers again. for the stormwater. for the replacement? Is there a table that was done at some point? Is that on the plan. I think Unknown: it might have been on the schedule that Caitlin had pulled up Linda Hansen: the landscape plan.
Unknown: Yep. just Linda Hansen: want to make sure the numbers match. because the numbers in here say something of 400 and some trees. Is that right? I will let
Unknown: our landscape architects confirm. I believe that there was somewhere around. like you said. 400 removed from the site in total. much less within the buffer zone. And then they detailed compliance with chapter 194 and chapter 193 replanting in their landscape schedule. Shannon Fischer: I think it's closer to 500 something Linda Hansen: trees. is it? Yeah. I thought. so. um. so. yeah. yeah. those are retaining walls in the back. And I mean. because it looks like you're doing some substantial grading. right in order to to take the slope out. Unknown: yes. there'll be retaining walls that actually constitute the building foundations back there on the east side. Okay. okay. and part of that is a requirement from the fire department to have a fire lane around the back of the building. So that's requiring us to moderate the slopes in the back a little bit. Linda Hansen: And did you have you? Have you received any approvals from the Board of Health for the septic system? Unknown: No. we've just made that formal submission this week. so we expect there will be a few weeks before. um. we get any comments back from Darren. Linda Hansen: Okay. Oh. it's good planting plan. okay. yeah. because I think. I mean. we're talking about doing a peer review. a joint peer review. with the planning board. conservation and Board of Health. and I don't know when. what the how the timing should work for that. it's always good to see if the Board of Health has any changes to the septic system. because that might modify. you know. locations of things. And I'm not sure what the planning board is discussing. either. So at some point. I guess we should. probably should get together to figure out the timing on that. Sean Fair: But so when real quick to hop in. help me understand that the playing board and and Board of Health just got the submission as well. So this is not been approved or amended at all by them. this plan that we're looking at right now. Linda Hansen: Yeah. I think the Board of Health just either received it. I think it received it Luke Legere: today. right? Or. Yeah. yesterday. I think. yeah. but Unknown: they haven't really had a chance to look at it. But to your question. Mr. Chair. yes. you guys are have kind of been our first stop. The way that schedules have worked out. We haven't had a formal discussion with the planning board yet. Linda Hansen: I thought they were meeting tonight to discuss something. Was that just to take a. Vote in the peer review? No. I don't know. Okay. well. I saw they were meeting tonight. and I thought that was on the. on the. on the agenda. So. okay. Sean Fair: Luke. I guess to that point and I'll shut up. I guess I'm missing. How do we conservation have a peer review if we don't know what the final. I mean. I can't imagine what we're looking at now is going to be anywhere. It's gonna be amended somehow before it comes to us. So I guess the peer review. are we saying? What inland. in your mind. if. what would we what would we would be approving today. if the Board of Health is just looking at it like we're authorizing you to work with the board of health and planning to get a peer reviewed for us to then take a look at and then modify again. Linda Hansen: so the peer review conservation would be strictly stormwater review. And that's planning board. I think we need the same thing. They would need a stormwater review for part of their site plan review. Again. the plan is on vacation this week. so I haven't had really had the ability to speak with them about the process. but I think at some point we do need to have that conversation about what the process and timing of that's going to be. And I mean. the scope of work. I think. has been decided. However. I again. you know. if there's. if there's any changes to the septic. or the location of the septic. or anything else that could also change the location of the storm water management systems. you know. you know. they're all intertwined in this. So maybe the best thing to do is wait for the town planner to get back and we can figure out what the process is. At this point. it's just a matter of taking a vote that we would. you know. we're. we'd like to pursue a stormwater peer review for this project under for conservation.
Sean Fair: I mean. I guess just. it just seems early in the process. We've never done this before. this early. where we're Board of Health. US and Tom planning get all the same. That's what vote would you like us to get? To give you is. in the next month. start up peer review on a plan that we haven't
Linda Hansen: seen well. I mean. again. we have a plan. It's just a matter of whether or not Sean Fair: we've never seen it before. like the board of Board of Health. with this many trees going down. this much storm water. that much impervious. and it's most septic. I can pretty much guarantee what we're looking at now is gonna have to change again. not without even seeing what zoning or playing and Board of Health is gonna do. So this is. it's unusual. I guess I'm curious why we are the first stop. if nothing else. we gotten. So again. commission. weigh in. I feel like I'm I guess I'm confused. Why so many unanswered things? What are we actually voting on today? Luke Legere: I mean. I understand what you're getting at Sean. I think maybe another way to say this. So the way I'm thinking of this is. it's a. we're looking at basically a hypothetical project right now. which is surely going to change. So I guess. I guess if the well. and with that said. clearly. this is going to need a peer review. right. clearly. So I guess it's going to be a matter of expense for the applicant. because that's probably going to be an awfully expensive peer review. because it's probably gonna have to be multiple rounds of review. would be my expectation. But So at any rate. yeah. I hear you. Sean. I guess. but I also hear what Linda saying. I it does seem like ultimately. the vote tonight is just going to be to authorize Linda to work with planning and Board of Health on getting a peer review. We'll be looking at storm water. and then we go from there. But I certainly take your points that it seems like a very early it seems like we're looking at a project that's not really quite ready for prime time yet. I guess is the way I'm looking at it. Sean Fair: Right as always. much more eloquently put than I thank Linda Hansen: you. Luke. when is your first time planning board? Is that? Is that us in October? Sean Fair: Sorry. second. Linda. is your. is your Linda Hansen: hearing with the planning board scheduled for October at some point?
Unknown: Yes. we are on for October 15 is when we go before planning board. Linda Hansen: Okay. again. the Commission can take a vote tonight to engage a peer reviewer for the storm water review. and then it won't be until after the planning board meets that we probably come up with a the process that we're going to follow for that I mean. if they again after their first hearing. if they have a number of questions or concerns or there's modifications that need to be done. there's no real reason to do a peer review immediately until the commission and Planning Board have seen revised plans. And that holds true also for Board of Health. if they have some changes that. Need to be made based on. you know. their original plans. I mean. that's how I look at it. I don't know how the other boys are going to look at it. you know. I don't know if they they're going to need that information in order to suggest revisions to the plans. I don't. I don't really know how they work so. but it doesn't make sense for us to really engage anything at this point. other than take a vote and then wait until the planning board meets on October 15. Does that make sense? Sean Fair: No. I'll go back to I hear what you're asking and No. we've never done this. so I'm clear and make sure the applicant understands whatever I'm we're gonna have to see this thing again before we ask for a peer review work. So again. I don't understand why we're we have multiple peer reviews. If we're saying. Well. we're technically not going to even engage in peer review for someone. why are we here?
Unknown: I'm happy to kind of just jump. So yeah. the questions are fair. right? I mean. there's a lot of boards that have to go through something like this. So as a team. like this. so as a team. we were targeting the next filing deadline for each board. And the way they work out. Sometimes it gives an interesting situation because of the scale of this project. right? It's a large project that has Wetlands Protection Act. and it has chapter 194. 193. Planning Board of Health. There's a lot of boards that need to see this project. have the time to digest it. review it. We felt. as a project team. it makes the most sense that once we have at least what we believe is a final design. to file it with the boards. to allow you guys time to review it. We fully understand that when you go through these processes. these things can absolutely change. But this is the current design that we have. You know. we've come up with a design that makes sense architecturally from a stormwater perspective. so we know that we have to go through the process with all the boards. but it makes the most sense for us to at least engage the Commission on the process now begin to review it and take feedback as we go. because any one of these boards could have questions. modifications. depending on different local bylaws. policies. different things like that. So we understand that we are not asking you guys to run right into something and act as this is the final design. But from our side of things. it's helpful for us to start to get feedback from each board weeks. We like the idea of the peer review going simultaneously. because stormwater is going to be through planning and the commission. So I think if we start to go out to peer reviewers and approve that at least it helps us begin to prep for the peer review process. So that's the intent behind it. Certainly understand the Commission's questions. and I think you know the the thought of taking a vote to peer view this project helps us just get the next step to move forward. We can talk between the different meetings as of when we do that. but it's helpful for us to at least get this project in front of the commission begin to discuss it. take some feedback and set up our process with everybody. Sean Fair: Yeah. thanks. Andrew. I appreciate that. I'm confused. Didn't someone to say you guys are in front of the planning board on the 15th of October. right next. next Planning Board meeting for y'all. Unknown: that is correct. we we have been given by planning board that date as the hearing. Sean Fair: So we've got two meetings in between then. right? So why are we meeting now to wait to hear what the planning board says. Start a review process so I hear what you're saying. but so I'll go back to you. Linda. I don't understand why we're here right now. Linda Hansen: Again. they submitted. We have to hold a hearing within 21 dates. And so. you know. this is. this is a process we have to follow. So again. we don't have to get started on any peer review. I do worry about the Board of Health if there's any changes. I mean. maybe that's a peer review to start with. a groundwater mounting peer and the scope of work that the Board of Health has put together for the peer review. I mean. that could change things. you know. locations and stuff. So. you know. maybe again. this might be a different process. Here we might be. you know. second. third in line as far as stormwater goes for peer review. And that's something that a discussion we have to have is. you know. how we're gonna. how we're gonna. how we're gonna do this. Sean Fair: you know. second. second or third is not first. No. it's not until the planning board says. here's what we're gonna have them do. and this is gonna change what you all are seeing. what. what are we voting again? So we can Linda Hansen: wait to vote. Sean. we can wait to vote if you want. Well. that's my Sean Fair: Yeah. so I'll this is not. this is first time we've ever done this is a highly unusual process. but this. this. this part of us. front of everybody else for a peer review that that we don't know we're peer reviewing yet. technically. other than the fact that. yeah. there's gonna be a stormwater peer review. So question I Shannon Fischer: was going to say. like. I I mean. I certainly hope we see changes. I don't even like. I don't think I would even want to vote on a peer review right now. the number of trees that are the number of mature native trees that are slated to come down. is so egregious and reprehensible. I. Certainly hope that that we see changes. I mean. this is an Aston they're proposing to clear cut and DeForest acres of land. And I don't even see that there was an attempt to save any of these trees. except for that small little token pocket down front. I mean. it's. it's really hard to look at this. I I would certainly hope that we see some serious changes going forward. And I would. I wouldn't mind holding off on the peer review for those reasons. Unknown: Yeah. put a parking garage in to save the trees you don't have. There's a lot of changes. And on the next plans that we get. we require the data. and that's missing again.
They must read the rules. because they asked for a waiver for something else. but then they don't give us the datum.
Shannon Fischer: Gotcha. yep. Thank you. yeah. a parking garage. or stack some of the buildings. Or instead of having another field. which Wayland has plenty of fields. have an outdoor classroom. Teach children to appreciate nature. instead of stripping it away. it's their the natural legacy that they'll need to have a good future anyway. So there's many changes that could be made to make this an actually environmentally sensitive project. which it certainly isn't right now.
Sean Fair: Okay. thank you. Jen and Barbara. Anybody else thoughts in the commission? Luke Legere: I just want to echo Shannon and Barbara's comments. I'm. you know. really sort of at a loss for words. Honestly. looking at this design. the amount of trees that are coming down there's not like there's barely a square foot that's not developed here. and there's massive amounts of parking. It appears to me. I just. I agree with Shannon and Barbara entirely. It seems like there's a better way to design this to be able to save some trees and some of the natural environment. and it doesn't really appear to me that that there was even an attempt to do that. based on what I'm looking at here. So I I guess at the end of the day. you know. I heard what the applicant said in response to your question. Sean. it's their prerogative. obviously. to file in whatever order they choose.
I'm sort of agnostic. I guess. I don't really have a problem with voting tonight to authorize Linda to work with the other departments and boards on a comprehensive. collaborative peer review whenever that happens. But I also agree with what I think most of us are saying. that it doesn't seem like that's going to happen really. very soon. So I guess. I I. I guess. in my view. I'd sort of put it back to the applicant. If they want us to take that vote tonight. I'd make a motion for it. But it does seem like it's a little premature. Is just my observation. That kind of goes back to what I was saying if what I was saying before. It just seems like it's going to be an incredibly expensive undertaking. It's. I suppose it's the applicants money. so it's their decision. but it isn't the way I'd do it if I was on their side of the table. But that's I'm not. So that's where I'm at. Shannon Fischer: Can I add a sort of a bigger picture thing. like 500 trees proposed to come down here. We just. like the the Caritas project is what another 300 trees someone cut down. We've had two different people who cut down 50 trees. I think. give or take on their properties. Like this is how towns lose their tree canopy. Like this is how it happens. 100 500 trees. at a time. And these are really important natural resources. And these are also homes for many. many creatures that just happen to not be human. but still have value.
Okay. thank you. Unknown: I just to that point. because I noticed the same thing. And again. being new. you know. but it was obvious to me. too. that the whole. the entire five acres are being developed. And so one thing I noticed. just as a comment. is in the Notice of Intent memo section 2.6 the number of trees to be replaced. I think we're actually using the chapter numbers 193 and 194 three and 194 because it doesn't tie to the count of native plantings to be replaced on. I think sheet l 401. and the other thing that just stood out to me is there are replacement plantings. And I know it's allowed in the regulations. but considering it's over 500 trees coming down. the predominance of the replacement plantings are native shrubs. right? And those are wonderful to have. but it's inordinate the amount of trees that are coming down and then replacing them with shrubs. So hopefully. over time. there's some. you know. ways. as someone mentioned. I think it was Barbara like a garage. Or something else where we don't have to clear cut everything. we can save some of the existing trees. But I. I noticed it as well. but I wanted to point out that discrepancy in the documentation for for now. And I think. and I could be wrong. So this might be a question for Linda. but I was looking at the requirements on our website for. you know. number of shrubs for trees removed. And I just think on the chapter 193 for medium trees. DBH. 11 to 20 inches. it's showing four shrubs for every five trees. But I thought it was four shrubs for every three trees in the regulation. So I just I noticed that as well. And again. we're probably very early on. but having everything. I'm a finance person. I'm a numbers person. so having things tie back is something that I'm always looking for. Sean Fair: And you know. Lisa. we actually passed before you got on a couple of months updated on the 183 a one to one replacement. So really. so what time? Different place than tonight. but definitely point taken. And so I last thing. I'd say that we can vote as we have talked all night. Luke. I'm with you. You know. if. on one hand. if the app can wants to do it. but again. it's why not do every meeting like this? Hey. Linda. at some point you're gonna want a storm water versus it's always. here's what's before us. We know what we're asked. being asked to permit exactly. because it's gone through all the siphons on us. It complies. Now have a storm water. right? And so if we want to say. Great. do a storm water now. that's not gonna happen for another three meetings that we're gonna be in. Okay? But you when we get our final Alright. here's what the final plan is going to be. We need another storm water and so that's why I want to make sure we're not going to be up against this. We already did a storm water review once upon a time. right? And so I'd much rather continue this do our normal way. and just continue the hearing. And then when we get Linda. you can talk with the planning board. They're well aware of her regulations. It's not a big surprise. And Board of Health. and once we get their meeting. we'll know we'll have a little more knowledge of what we're actually doing. versus giving Linda do whatever. So that would be my preference. but I definitely understand what we're look what you're saying to the applicant. but why continue this hearing? I still understand why we're being asked to authorize this so far ahead of rally. We're not we're not even there yet. So that'd be my thought.
Unknown: if I may quick question. Linda. what is the what is the next commission hearing after October 15. Linda Hansen: Oh. I have to go check. Let me check. Luke Legere: I thought October 8 was our next. We were the 20 I think we're the 24th and then the October 8. I believe we're the next. yeah. Sean Fair: the one after the eighth is 29th the 29th Linda Hansen: 29th the ninth. Okay? I mean. we can continue to the eighth and find out. I mean. by that point. I hopefully will have discussions with the planning board. and then Board of Health might have it reviewed by then. and that we can go back and decide what. you know. if we want to modify the scope. if we want to move forward. that kind of thing. Sean Fair: So by the eighth. that's going to happen the October 8. You said. yeah. Linda Hansen: yeah. I mean. I think by that point we should probably know more about. especially about the Board of Health Review. and I would have discussions with the planner. town planner. to find out exactly what direction. how. how they plan on managing the peer reviews for for the board. for the site plan review. Okay. can Sean Fair: I just. oh. go ahead. I was just Shannon Fischer: gonna say. there's a comment in. in the in the chat. there's a and a butter who wants to say something. but can't stay on past eight. So it's hoping to jump in. yeah. Sean Fair: Well. yeah. I just wanna make sure. We'll go this first before we open it up. All right. Last thing. so basically. we're saying maybe continue to the eighth. and we'll know more information by then. and we what we're peer reviewing. possibly. yep. Unknown: And I would add. if we haven't gotten anywhere by that eighth. we can just do a quick continue to the 29th and pick it up then. Okay. Sean Fair: okay. All right. push anything else before I as someone who wants to make a comment. okay. let's see Carol Wolf.
Linda Hansen: She's on Carol. You can unmute yourself Sean Fair: here. I'll unmute you.
Unknown: Yes. I could unmute myself. There you go. I don't know if you have video on me. Please Linda Hansen: introduce yourself. Sorry. Unknown: I'm Carol Woolf. I live at 10 Brandywine in Turkey. la village. I. I'm actually in a three way text right now with a number of other residents. and many of us have been talking about what's happening here and been very concerned. Honestly. we weren't quite sure how or which meetings or how to raise issues with the town and the different committees. because there's. as you all have pointed out so well. there's so many different committees and different pieces to this project. and it's such a huge project. So basically. we just wanted to say that we had many. many concerns about it. and we want to make sure part of that discussion going forward. I don't know that it's appropriate for us to say anything more detailed about conservation issues. I think you guys have done an excellent job of doing it. Linda Hansen: So Carol. let me suggest that if you guys are working together as a group. that you put together a comment letter. and that's something that you could share with all the different boards. myself. with conservation. with planning and even board health. And that would get distributed to everybody. We get distributed to all the members here and the planning board members. and that might be the most effective way. if you your thoughts together and put together a comment letter with all your concerns in it. Unknown: Okay. we can do that. It'll be at whatever point in time we finish it obviously will be based on the information we have at that time. I mean. tonight's meeting was very enlightening. and we learn new things even now. although we've been all over all of the plans and that none of us are experts in these areas. obviously. Linda Hansen: no. you can. you can. you can start with the original plans that we have in front of us. right? Because that's what we're looking at also. you know. that's what we have to comment on. And from that point. there might be revisions made. and then you'll have another opportunity later on. if you want to make change. you know that comments to a revised plan. or comments to. you know. something happening. Board of Health. or whatever. you know this is going to be. you know. it's. it's not as it's not a static process. It's going to be fairly well. you know. fast moving type thing. So. Okay. understood. Unknown: Can you just tell me who I should send it to? We should send it to you. Linda Hansen: Can you can email me and I can send you a distribution list. So if you send it to conservation@wayland.ma.us Yep. Then I can. I can give you a list of of who I mean. I could fire back the different email distribution lists that you can send it to. Okay. okay. Unknown: Emily. can you just confirm that's the same address I've been sending notes to you that you've been responding to so kindly. Yep. that's the same one. Okay. it's a shared app. So much I'm done. Thank you. Thanks. Carol. Sean Fair: Appreciate it. Couple more. Hands up. Meyer. Dana.
Unknown: Hi. can you hear Sean Fair: me? Yes. ma'am. hi. Unknown: it's actually Heather. Dana. we Heather. and Meyer is my husband. We are residents on Christina in Turkey Hill. You know. I just want to make a couple of comments. and really want to echo Shannon. because I agree with her that taking down 500 trees is deforestation. And I'd like to remind everybody that rice road is designated as a scenic Road in our community. And the reason all the residents on rice Road. all the main stone condo residents. why do we live here? We live here because it's a bucolic. quiet. tranquil environment. And while I have no objection to the Church and its religious values. I object to the plan and the implementation of those and think. just think that this was. you've got everybody on rice road screaming about the Dover amendment. and I've done my research and realize that the Conservation Committee doesn't. it doesn't necessarily apply that you have to apply those rules because it has to do with zoning. which is why this meeting is premature. I agree with Sean that there should have been planning board. health board. and all these other committees. First. you've put the cart in front of the horse. And lastly. you know you've got. I don't know how many people live here between one end of rice road to the other. including all the main stone condos. You wait a week to notify a butters when two years ago you were in court trying to get access to move those the graves. So this is a plan that you've had in action for a very long time. and you've had plenty of opportunity to reach out and have community meetings. If you look at Somerville. Cambridge. any of the major cities in our in our state. they hold community meetings where the public is invited from the beginning. So. To let them know what's going on. and I suggest that maybe it was fear on your part that you did not engage your community first. It's deceptive. And last comment. because I've heard it twice now. and my husband said it last night. You've got the church built into the hillside. The hillside is only 30 feet high. What do you do about the 90 foot tower that's going to come up above that hill? No mention of how you're going to ameliorate that. especially after you take down 500 trees. So I'm done. I spoke my piece. I think I represent everybody at Main stone. and and. and all the people who own houses on rice road. And I certainly hope that the health board. the planning board and this respected Conservation Committee take all of these things into consideration within your guidelines and what you have control over. Thank you. Thanks. Sean Fair: Eleanor. Uh. I see one more hand. Sylvia Diaz.
Unknown: yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Ma'am. all right. Thank you. Yeah. I want to thank the committee here. Shannon. Lisa. Luke and Barbara. who noticed the absurd number of trees that are going to be knocked down. And then. as you see on the plan. a lot of trees. If we between the church entrance and the rice road. a lot of trees are going to be knocked down. and just on each side. only. like six are going to be planted. That's just ridiculous. And but the other thing I really. I've always wanted to know. and it does pertain to the the the Conservation Committee. and it doesn't but I've always had. I've had a question when we went. I went to last week's meeting. They say the steeple or the or the towers. right? It's going to be 30 358 feet. But what I want to know. because that depends on the grade and knee and all that. how? What does that equate to number of stories? Is it a five story building. six story building. 10 or whatever? Can the architect answer Linda Hansen: that? Well. Sylvia. that's. that's really not in the Conservation Commission's purview. That's not in our jurisdiction. I would. if I were you. could you save that question for the planning board that would be within there. Unknown: I have them right here. Linda. I mean. it's and it's been hard to get a hold of them. I've been waiting to get this question answered for a week Sean Fair: now. right? But we have to keep it related to conservation issues. Okay. fine. unfortunately. Unknown: So thanks. Sean Fair: Well. thank you. Thanks. So we appreciate it. Well. see it one more. Beth Raynor.
Unknown: Hi. Thanks so much. I'm at eight. Christina Turkey. Hill village. and I just wanted to choose two statements. and thank you all for listening. The first is that it's hard to tell from the way that the plans that you're seeing from the architect are laid out. But when they talk about the back side of the property going up the hill. those are actually our properties that abut that. So we are at the back. We are at the top of the hill. At least some of us. some of us go up Turkey Hill. but some of us are sitting so that those parking lots will be our new backyard. those asphalt surfaces will become our new backyard. where we have woodland at this time. there doesn't appear to be a buffer between us and the and the asphalt that I could identify. because they're going right to the to the property lines. And again. that may not directly be conservation. but maybe somewhat. I my next question. again. I'm not knowledgeable. so I apologize if this is not in your purview. not in your wheelhouse. but I'm wondering. where does the tree Warden get involved in this process. and is that having to do with you or the planning board.
Linda Hansen: with the town just has a contract tree warden. So I typically. if we have questions about the tree. the health of the tree. it's. it's the applicant's responsibility to submit an arborist report to show us if some of these trees need to come down because of the health of them. we would probably not engage a tree warden at our expense for this. Okay? Thank you. Thanks. Sean Fair: Beth. yeah. did I miss anybody? Everybody? His hands. Okay. Commission. last comments. thoughts before we move for a motion. Shannon Fischer: Here just a couple quick comments. Um. one I think that. um. other towns use tree wardens a little bit differently. So there that could be part of where that comes up. But for for like Beth and Sylvia. some of those questions we've seen letters from abutters that go out to the multiple departments. like. like. our first like. one of the first residents said that she wanted to do. And so that list will be coming from Emily and. you know. adding a lot of those comments in there. sort of as a group of a butters could help get some of those answered. You know. if we're not able to answer them here.
Unknown: Thank you very much. We appreciate it because. you know. we're trying with very short notice. As Heather mentioned. we really were just notified within a 10 days of all of this. Linda Hansen: Did you receive in a better list. a better notice? Unknown: Then we received something from the church. As you you pointed out at the beginning that we received something from the church with less than a week of time. As I recall. one of my neighbors could. could correct me. I was on vacation during the meeting. I did request. and they had a link. and they had an email that that you could request if you couldn't be at the meeting. Information I have not ever received any information. although I did email them. So as I under. as I recall. it was less than a week's notice for the meeting. Linda Hansen: We should have also received a notification to a butters letter that was separate from the church with a separate from the church letterhead that would have come from. where from God or consulting? Unknown: Okay. about the meeting tonight. I did receive that a couple of days ago. Okay. all right. so within a few days of this meeting. yes. I'm sorry. yes. Linda Hansen: just checking. Thank you.
Unknown: Christian. Anything else Shannon Fischer: there? Another hand raised. Sean Fair: Sylvia. That's. I think she's.
Unknown: I think she raised her hand again. maybe. Sean Fair: oh. raising again. Sylvia. Sylvia. you're on
Unknown: mute. You can now. I know you can hear me. I think. I don't think everybody got this second a butter email from or letter from Goddard. I don't think everybody got the first one. either. as far as I've been told. I don't have. But. for example. the second one from Goddard I didn't get. And I live on Brandywine. which is pretty close. I don't know how close you have to be to the church project to be considered on a butter you know. I don't know if the top of the hill at Turkey. At turkey. Hill got them or not. but I did not get this. this notice for this meeting and and so I just wanted to clarify that. And one question for the that it does pertain is. you said they're going to knock down 500 trees. and they're proposing to replace it with how many. but not all of them are trees. some of them are shrubs. right? And so how many trees and shrubs.
Linda Hansen: I think? Quote me. if I'm wrong or right. I thought I saw 68 trees. Is that correct? Unknown: There was more than that. I think
trees and the rest were shrubs and Okay. and. and how many are shrubs? I
uh. several 100 it looks like yeah. I'll let our landscape architects jump in on that one. I do want to just quickly address the the about a notification comment. because that's certainly important to make sure. So I do just want to pull up my screen real quick just to make sure that we can show Sylvia. I just do want to confirm that there was one sent your way. I have your address here. and it was sent out on August 27 and seventh. I don't know what may have happened with the postal system if you did not receive it. I do apologize. and I'm glad you were able to make it tonight. Just for the Commission's knowledge. I do want to make sure that they they know that these were sent out and time stamped August 27 just for compliance purposes. Thank you. of course. No. I'm glad you guys were able to make it tonight. Yes. thank you. I heard it through the brief line. so that's fine. good. yes. Barbara. Barbara page. Oh. they don't number the pages. Oh. yeah. here it is on page seven. guarded. It says. Is in total. the project requires removal of 38 trees within the riverfront and 493 trees from the remainder of the site.
Thanks. Barbara. that's what they said. yep. I mean. I Shannon Fischer: does the rest of that sentence tie into Lisa's catch about Yeah. the it's not 94 and 193 that's this the bylaws that got typo in. yeah. Sean Fair: yeah. okay. okay. We got two really quick. quick comments here. Helen. Helen Walker. believe it was yes. Unknown: Helene. thank you. I just wanted to say that I am feeling much better. I live on 13 Brandywine in Turkey Hill. so I am very close invisibility to what would become a parking lot. and the loss of the trees was very painful for me to read about. and I wanted to thank you. because I think you're taking a lot of care. and I really appreciated a lot of your comments. and I'm leaving tonight with less anxiety that I arrived. So thank you very much. Excellent. Sean Fair: Appreciate it. I see Sherry Unknown: make sure
you didn't activate your Gary. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. okay. I live also on Christina 10. Christina right at the top of the hill. and the project will greatly impact my my home and but I did want to just ask a question. I almost did not open this Goddard consulting letter because I had no idea that there was an it was about the church or being out of butter. And I I just don't understand why there was nothing on the envelope. even about what it was for. what was going to be on the inside. I don't know if that's an a weird question or not. but like I said. I someone said. Did you get the butter letter? I said. I don't think so. And then I just looked through my mail. and I just think it's odd that we get something from a consulting company instead of from the church or the town or somebody
Sean Fair: Gotcha. Yeah. that's typically how it comes out. Unfortunately. it doesn't kind of official there. Unknown: Thank you for the clarification to the butters. I would just jump in quick. So it's. it's a regulation under the Wetlands Protection Act that anytime a wetlands permit is filed. a butter is within it's typically 100 feet. Get notified. and we must do that by either certified mail or certificate of mailing. So it comes as a very formal envelope that you'll see timestamp from the post office. So it. it comes a little cryptic and strange. It's because we just have to send them out and we have to show and we have to show timestamp and prove that we we notified of butters. So it's a. it's a strange process. So again. I'm. I am glad that everybody saw it. and you know. we appreciate all of your comments.
Sean Fair: Thanks. Sherry. thank you. Did I get every looks like Meyer. I think it was Heather. Was the one. Yep. So you. you. you Unknown: asked me. I just have a quick question for the Conservation Committee. because my understanding is that tree cutting by an applicant is subject to the Conservation Commission's review if it falls within one of the three protected areas. you know. a jurisdictional wetland. a buffer zone that was mentioned the 100 feet or 200 for a river. or any other area specified in a local wetlands. protection by law. if the applicant has met those requirements. what ability does the Conservation Committee have to make decisions about the tree cutting. Sean Fair: not to simplify storm water. okay. when you remove trees. you remove sponges from the ground. which changes hydrology sometimes. and run off and storm water. all that stuff. Unknown: All right. thank you. That was very helpful. Thank you. You're welcome.
Sean Fair: I think I have everybody. yes. okay. Commission. we were finalizing any comments before a motion. Anybody. anybody else. so. so I think we for. I think we released. chatted about making a motion for continuance to October 8. and that way we'll get have some more information on how this is proceeding and what may. may or not be required that we're chatting about commission. Luke Legere: That was my understanding Sean and I also understood we're not vote. In for a peer review tonight. We're going to just continue to the eighth. and we'll talk about that on the eighth or at the next meeting after that. So I mean. maybe it's worth just having the applicant confirm what you and I think we understood. Unknown: I can confirm that we are amenable to that here in the Commission's comments. That works for us. Luke Legere: Okay. thank you. Perfect. Yeah. I guess my just final comment. then before any sort of emotion shot. I think just kind of two things sort of obvious. I suspect. to the applicant team that you've heard from a number of members of the Commission and the public. is the tree removal. I would really encourage the applicant team. There's a lot of brain power here tonight. I would encourage you to put that to use. trying to find ways to design this so that you're you're really saving some trees and same with the mitigation planting. The shrubs are all well and good. but what's coming back in really isn't. in my view. anyways. an adequate replacement for what's being proposed for removal. So that's I would just say that in the other comment I would make. just based on what we heard from the residents. is it doesn't sound to me. and maybe I'm mistaken. It doesn't sound to me like there was really any outreach or communication with the neighbors. And I think that's worth something. you know. that's something that's worth the applicant team really seriously considering is trying to have a meeting with the neighbors and those who are living nearby who are going to be most affected. I'll just say. in my experience. it may save you a lot of headache and heartache down the line if you're able to talk with them and hear their concerns and try your best to address them. It just doesn't sound like that really happened again. maybe I misunderstand. I would just offer those two sort of big picture comments.
Unknown: Thank you. Luke bales. Christian.
Sean Fair: yeah. I'll wrap up. I could agree more with Luke. So let's get let's see where kind of things land over the next few weeks. But yeah. through that being said. So with that. can you continue once then for October 8. sometime after 630 Luke Legere: please. So moved Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. To hear a second. Second. Okay. Shannon. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Sean fair. yes. All right. we'll see you folks in a few weeks. Unknown: All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. uh.
Sean Fair: uh onto 1d this is 13 Charena Road DEP file number 322. dash. 1041. continued Notice of Intent file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection Bylaw and the Wetlands Protection Act available submitted by Cara Carol Seto Patricia Laza Wicke for the demolition of existing house and development of a free house subdivision at 13 Charena Road and Wayland mass the product is shown on assessors map 38 block 157 is located within 100 foot buffer zone of a boring vegetated wetland. Linda. Linda. you're on mute.
Linda Hansen: I believe we have Kevin O'Leary and the applicant on to discuss whatever new information they submitted. I have a progress print from was it September 3. who received it? Was that? Is that all we got? Kevin.
Kevin O'Leary: yeah. the treat for the subdivision roadway.
excuse me. With me is Carol and Mark Seto in the same room. sitting behind me. and we submitted a revised tree removal plan. and I could share screen to show it. and this is on the subdivision roadway. and also Sean. if appropriate. I'd like to also discuss. at some point. I maybe during the same hearing. is the lot a one or one cedar wood Lane RDA. that's in front of the commission too. because there's some intertwining components to it. But in regards to the cedar wood Lane infrastructure. construction. roadway drainage. Okay to share screen please? Yeah.
These plans visible on your screens. Sean Fair: your email. Oh. no. not the plan. No. just your your desktop. I'm sorry. Unknown: I. Try it again.
Now. is it visible? No?
Visible now. yes. yep. okay. thank you. Kevin O'Leary: On the left is the the tree plan that was submitted and we had a site walk on August 27 at the property. and we walked down in this general area. this plan. I'm going to just increase it a little bit so you can see it better. Unknown: Yes. I think I am.
Kevin O'Leary: So this is a plan that's been submitted to the commission. And we walked down into this area. and we got stopped by a bee's nest in the ground. So we turned around and came back out and walked up in this area. Here's the existing house. and we viewed or looked at these trees. and then kind of looked back in the cul de sac area and discussed the tree removal. Since that time. we had put together another plan. just going to scroll to it. because the commission had a lot of concerns about the tree removal. and it was a significant amount of work that they were requesting in regards to the removal of the trees. So we cut back the line. and now the tree removal line. or a limit of work that's L. O. W. in this area comes around and connects back in this approximate location. So you can see that we're removing. or proposing to remove. significantly less number of trees. I think the I think we're reducing it almost in half the number of trees to be removed. And you can see that I've removed the x's from the trees over here. I have not filled out or done the tree counting analysis on this portion of the plan. because we wanted to get an understanding with the Commission of the goal of what they want to see on the plan. or what analysis they want to perform. When we submitted the plan. I had assumed that about 50% of the trees were in significantly poor health. and it didn't seem justified to provide replacement plantings for the trees that were more than half dead. I used a 50% estimate on the tree life. Basically. of all the trees were taken down. we're only going to replace 50% of them. So now that we're reducing the tree removal in approximately half. a little bit more than half. I believe. 28 inside the 100 foot. and 14. I'm sorry. 17 inside the 100 foot and 28 outside the 100 foot buffer zone. So we'd like to be able to proceed with the Commission with this new information. But you know. a lot of these trees. as you can see. many of these trees would have to take down to put the road in. So we'd like to. you know. see how the commission feels about not replacing some of these trees. or still using the 50% rule for the trees are in poor health. So I'd like to hear any commission comments about that. so we can proceed at some point to finalize this.
Sean Fair: Linda commission. Thoughts compared to the site walk when. Linda Hansen: um. yeah. I mean. I didn't. I didn't record all the different trees that were dead or disease. I'm just. I'm basing it on. on Kevin's plan. I only see 140 dimension tree was dead. Then there was another one here. where this the infiltration unit is. is. says dead on it. But the rest of them. I can't confirm what the health of those are. I mean. we did again. You know. we were kind of stopped because of the bees nest. And. you know. the the discussion we had was. why are all the trees getting taken down? A lot a four in other areas outside the where the the road and the infiltration are. are being proposed? It seems a little bit premature to do that. So. I mean. I'm not. I don't think doing a blanket. okay. we're going to cut it down to 50% is. is just doesn't seem like a good decision to make. right at this point. when I'm not. I'm not 100% clear what. how? What the hell that these are.
Kevin O'Leary: Sorry. say it again. Linda. you're not sure about what Linda Hansen: Well. I mean. you're doing this. this coming up with this. this 50% rule. I don't know where that comes from. I mean. we don't. we don't have a good understanding with the health of all the trees that you're planning to remove are. Kevin O'Leary: So you don't have a good plan that tells you which ones we want to take Linda Hansen: down. No. the 50 the ones that are. Are this 50% rule you're coming up with because some of them are diseased or dying or dead. I don't know how you came up with that. because. again. I only see two on here that say they're dead. Kevin O'Leary: Well. we we walked it with an arbor says. Yes. you know. walked over this property. and you submitted a letter that supports the 50% estimate of the health of the trees that are on the property at the site walk. And we know that the standing dead trees should come off the plan. Or. you know. we're not providing replacement plantings dead trees. but of the ones of the live trees on the property. there are some that are more than 50% dead. There are some that are less than 50% dead. We pick 50 based on our observations in site walks? Linda Hansen: Well. I'll let Shannon weigh in on that one. She probably took better notes than I did at the site walk. Shannon Fischer: Then I'm not sure I'm ready to speak about about that. I know that we saw some trees that that looked like they were in good health and just needed some of the invasive pressure to be taken off of them. and I want to so have the things like the island this been are they on this map? Because we talked about how those needed to come down. But. you know. they had previously been on here. I don't know if they're still on here. I think we want to get those off for sure. I. I don't know. isn't something kind of like dead or not dead. I don't know about the 50% half dead. mostly dead. kind of thing. but I know we saw some trees that just needed some love and care and some invasive pressure to be removed. And we those were being considered. you know. to be taken down because of that. but we didn't necessarily think they had to be. But. you know. I don't know.
Kevin O'Leary: well. is there. is there a percentage that the commission is comfortable with that we can. you know. use to go forward with this just. you know. trying to move this thing ahead. And I And sorry. go ahead. Shannon Fischer: I was just gonna say commission. Have we done this before. where we say. okay. take 50% off the top because of this. Like. that's not really a thing we do. I mean. don't you just replace the tree. I mean. why wouldn't you want some beautiful trees to help mitigate some of this? So I don't know.
Unknown: We haven't said 50%
Linda Hansen: Well. I thought. I thought the purpose of the site visit was to remove all the Norway. Norway maples and the Tree of Heaven off the plan and anything that's dead. right? And have a revised plan that shows just the mature. live trees. you know. that are. that are not invasive. right?
Shannon Fischer: That was what I thought. Because we pointed out the Atlantis. we pointed out the Norway's. We saw the invasive bugs on the Atlantis like. you know that those shouldn't be on there. right? Or are they? I'm not. I'm not sure. Kevin O'Leary: What are the trees that you're mentioning are in discussion. if they're over the Yeah. all the trees are located. I think we just used. you know. four inches in diameter. at breast height. and located them and plotted them. right? Shannon Fischer: But part of the reason we had the site visit was because you were saying. Oh. well. some of the trees that we've marked are invasive and some of them are native. And we that became a little unclear. because obviously we wouldn't need replacement for invasives. And so we went there and we saw kind of. you know. the natives. the invasives. the trees that were healthy and just needed an invasive removal. right? So I'm with Linda. The point was kind of to re figure this tree map. if I understand. if I remember. Linda Hansen: the point was to subtract the invasives off this. this whole list off this. of this plan. So. I mean. I did. you know. I made notes on my on my site. on the My reduced plan. I have that identified some of the trees. but I we didn't go through and identify every single one of them on here.
Shannon Fischer: Yeah. I think an arborist would want to be because we. you know. we could only go so deep in there at that point. Linda Hansen: And again. we didn't have to go so deep. because I just chose not to take down all those trees and unlock for a just the ones that will be impacted by the roadway and this and the Storm. Storm. storm water system. But of those trees. how many of those are invasive or Nate or Norway Maples or Tree of Heaven that we have no interest in counting. you know? So I thought that again. I thought that was the point of the sidewalk. just to reduce your the number of trees you're taking down by eliminating all the invasives
and the dead for that matter.
Luke Legere: Sorry. just so not necessarily trees they're removing. but trees. Shown as being removed. On the plan. yeah. still be removing. They'd be removing the invasives. Linda Hansen: Ideally. we're not going to use them as for there's no reason to compensate. I just Luke Legere: wanted to make sure I understand. yeah. yeah. Sean Fair: And so I guess to Luke points of Kevin. are you saying? Are you asking. instead of. instead of actually counting. invasive. versus dying. versus dead versus alive. Are you asking us to say. well. just. let's call it 50% to make it like easy or Mike. where are we getting the 50% from? I'm confused. Kevin O'Leary: Well. it's from the site visits and examinations of the trees with the arborist. Because there's a percentage of trees that are healthy. and there's a percentage that are. you know. in very poor and declining health. And we didn't. we didn't think that we should be replacing trees that were. you know. more than 50% dead. and that's how we came up with it.
Shannon Fischer: But we're saying you might have a way to reduce it by by removing any invasives that are counted on this compensation. So we. we were hoping that the arborist could identify which trees on this map slated for removal are things like Norway maple or Tree of Heaven. and you could remove those. and then they wouldn't go towards compensation. But you know. certainly. please. please do remove all of the Atlantis that would that would be preferable. but you don't need to compensate for those. right? No. we were just talking different. different wavelengths. Kevin O'Leary: Well. if we. let's say we take. let's say we remove the invasive species. and then we still have a stand of. I don't know. you know. 50 trees. And let's say you have those 50 trees. is 50% of them are dead or dying. have very little vegetation or getting strangled by the invasive weeds we are. We is the intent. I mean. to replace that tree in the full spirit of the mitigation requirements. That's what I'm that's what I was getting at. is that it doesn't seem just to me to replace a tree that's significantly declined in health with a healthy tree. It seems like it's. you know. way too conservative. I think that's why. Sorry. go ahead. Shannon Fischer: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on you. No. that's right. I was just saying. I think we saw some trees that you know had invasive pressures. But if you just remove those invasive pressures. which would be good to do anyway. the tree would probably flourish.
Sean Fair: And I guess here to answer your question. yeah. if a tree is dead. that wouldn't you know that wouldn't count either. I guess. right? And maybe I'm missing kind of where you all miss each other. I think maybe the question is. okay. that's alive. that's dead. What is this? Is that go towards the alive. Do you have to compensate? And so if there are in this hypothetical 50 stand of trees. 15 or 10 of which are this hypothetical. could go either. either way. Is that kind of what we're getting down to. like. what are. what are those numbers? Kevin O'Leary: Yeah. yeah. Generally. I mean. some of the trees. you know. in the in the winter months. when there's no foliage. they appear to be dead. In the summer months. they have a very small or a limited canopy. even though they're. you know. for instance. 10 or 12 or 14 inches in diameter. So they're. you know. to me. that's a significantly declined health tree. and it doesn't seem right to have to replace that. you know. using the diameter of it. you know. and sticking it through the tree mitigation requirements. That's what I'm getting at. Is. is a significant number of trees that. you know. fall into that category. And I. I thought 50% was a. you know. a reasonable estimate of it. and the arborist agreed with me. So if the commission is not comfortable with 50% is there a another percentage of the commission is comfortable with. Sean Fair: yep. so I make for my own edification. So that same story. Kevin. you're saying arborist said 50% of this last 50 stand of trees that were kind of. you know. hypothetically. talking about 25 are this hype? Are this could be dead. could be alive. but probably dead. 25 are healthy. Those should be replaced. The other 25 are are not replaceable. Is that kind of Kevin O'Leary: what you're saying? Right? Yes. in a very general sense. yes. right. yeah. God. okay. Linda Hansen: but I don't see that in the report. though. Kevin. I mean. the report doesn't say anything about 50% Mr. Craig's report. Kevin O'Leary: yes. the first the first report. it does. He made a common first report. one of the two reports that he submitted. I think in the closing paragraph. he said he supports the use of the 50% declining health tree.
Shannon Fischer: So a tree can look like it's in declining health because it's got a blanket of bittersweet on it. but then you you take that down. you flail mode. or something like that. cut and paste those bittersweet stumps. Yeah. and all that tree. you can have a new lease on life. It's not necessarily just because it looks crappy with a blanket of bittersweet on it. Doesn't mean that it. you know. it's necessarily right for removal it. it may very well still have a lot of life in it if you just remove those terrible pressures on it. right? Kevin O'Leary: But that's part of the problem is. is there's so much pressure. and it's not realistic to think you're going to go on and cut the bit of sweet and then go out there. whatever. two or three times a year and Dave it with the poison to keep it from reoccurring. That there's too much of that on site. I mean. these trees are getting strangled from the ground up. and it's my understanding. also in the average report. that a lot of the trees have diseases or insects that are working against their life or against their remaining life.
Luke Legere: I was just gonna say. I'll just sort of cut to the chase. From my perspective on this. I like the idea of what I understood we were doing initially. right going out there. figuring out what the invasives are and not requiring mitigation for those. I'm not at all comfortable with this 50% rule idea. It just seems like something we've not done before. It seems subjective. it seems imprecise. So I'm not in favor of that. So I guess you know. I heard Mr. O'Leary sort of asking off the top. I think. more than anything. for some guidance. that's my two cents.
Unknown: Gotcha. Thanks. Luke. Linda Hansen: Anyone else? Just for clarification. I have two reports from April 8 from curry small those the only two I have. I don't know if there's another one that states 50% rule. but I don't. I don't see anywhere in either one of these that there's any. any mention of 50% Unknown: so. you know. it's. Shannon Fischer: it also seems like an odd like. like. I don't know if we want to set that precedent. say we want to take down. like. the example. we just had 500 trees. But don't worry. some of them are dead and dying. so maybe we'll just compensate. You know. playing with percentages gets a little weird. And it's not like it's actually a good thing to go after those invasives. Like. I don't think it's that hot. like it's a thing that people do. You flail. mow it down. you paint those stumps. you see what comes up. And a lot of times. you know. you can. you can. you know. go after the invasives that come back up after you've painted those thicker stumps. and then. you know. but sometimes some good things come back too. So it kind of gives the landscape a new a new lease on life. So I don't think it's necessarily like. if you can get a flammable down there. I don't know it's that it's the end of the world. but anyway. Unknown: I should. I should stop talking. Kevin O'Leary: No. keep going. Shannon. the I have the two obvious letters in front of me. which have been submitted to the commission. And the first letter. unfortunately. they both dated April 8. but they're a couple months apart. He Miss dated or used the incorrect data on the second letter. which I think was sometime in June. No. it's anyway. on the initial letter dated April. 8. third paragraph down. he says the majority of the trees are in extremely poor health. poor condition. In health. They've been overgrown by bittersweet. Those are multi flora and grape and have been killed by the overgrowth of these plants. Many of the trees have broken tops due to the weight of the vines on the dead trees. Most are most of the white ash are dead or have decay. Ash yellows was detected on one of the dead ash trees. Ash yellows is a micro Plaza like organism that has no effective cure known. no effective. known cure. is assumed that these may be the reason for the decline. as well as other factors. There are no wonderful plant specimens be found on the plot. and the plot is considered to be good for firewood only. It's normally suggested that a forest stand be thinned out by removing diseased and structurally damaged trees. but if that occurred. it would be clear cut once again. which in this forest stand assessment should be done. This would be an opportunity to call invasive species and replant with native species. Pictures of the forest and are supplied on pages two through four. and it goes on. There's another several pages on June 12. his second letter. and this is had a little bit of the willow tree information down near the start of the roadway. And on the last page. page seven. the second to last paragraph. He says. or he writes that he goes. I also think Kevin O'Leary was rather conservative in his assessment of the remaining trees on the property. Most of the trees are flawed in some way or broken. Eradication of invasive species will be a challenge once you dig into the soil. this will expose what's called the seed bank. This is where seeds from the invasives have gone dormant. and once the site is disrupted. they will germinate. So his. his statement that says he he thinks that I was conservative. He's referring to my 50% estimate on the health of the remaining health of the the trees on the property. Yeah. That's my basis for saying 50% is from the site walks. It's supported by a licensed arborist.
Unknown: Thanks. Kevin Christian thoughts. Shannon Fischer: I mean. if you're flail. if you're flail mowing. especially. you know. maybe when the ground is frozen. you're not going to disturb the soil. so that that's not necessary. You know. just saying that's not a guarantee. if that's how you if you choose a different route to go after invasives. But I'm really. I'm interested in what the rest of the commission has to say.
Sean Fair: So. yeah. So I'll go back. since that's a tough precedent. so I need to be a little more. you know. specific. not saying that the numbers don't actually come out that way or but it's just a tough. tough precedent to set of a ballpark. Here's what we think. So I guess I'll reiterating somewhat of what Sean Luke said. a little bit. even if it does end up being this casual number. anybody else? Commission. Barbara. maybe thoughts.
Unknown: Noise. so. Sean Fair: Commission. what would we think? What would be best way to proceed here? Give them some some guidance. next steps.
Luke Legere: I'm not really sure what. what more to add to what I said before. I think. yeah. in my view. a tree is dead or it's not dead. I just. I'm not comfortable getting into this. Well. it's half dead. So let's count half of them. I just. like I said before. I think that's just impressive. Imprecise. I think it's too subjective. And I agree with Shannon. I think it's just setting a really dangerous precedent. So I'm. you know. I'm fine with removing invasives and not requiring mitigation. If we can get an arborist report telling us with certainty these trees are dead. then great. But short of that. I'm. I'm not comfortable adopting Unknown: this 50% rule medication on
Sean Fair: 45 besides that. they have a variable. Yeah. I agree. Unknown: And most right so in one and most is one to one. You take one Linda Hansen: day. I count 40 trees in that section that aren't dead identified as dead. So again. a good portion of those could be invasive. But unless we know that number. it's it's kind of hard for us to make a decision. I The way I see Unknown: it. but you cannot. Linda Hansen: Barbara. sorry. Kevin. could you mute yourself? Unknown: I'm trying to that's like. this a radio is some Sean Fair: Oh no. yeah. Kevin's talking. Yeah. Kevin was talking somebody. That's what? Yes. we were hearing Barbara wasn't the radio. So sorry. So we're all sounds like doing the same feedback. then fair. Okay. so is that? Let me. Let me put on Kevin's that help you. I can continue this. Then to the next 24th what on your end would you like to do? Unknown: I'll just say I just had a comment that. So just again. because I'm kind of new to the commission. but it sounds like what we're saying is for at least the invasives. if they're like Norway maples. for example. if those are being removed. we're saying those don't have to be replaced. But what we're talking about is trees that may be dying may not be. they just might need to be given a chance. So I would agree with that Luke said in Shannon. if. if. if. they may be unhealthy. but they still have a chance to five unless. if they're dead. they're dead. but if they're there's possibilities to be alive. I say we try to save them. I think the fact that we're already compensating and saying. if they're invasive trees. we don't have to do a replacement. But keep in mind that. you know. even though they're invasive. they still provide. you know. Storm. what. runoff control. they still provide filtration. they still provide shade. So by making that concession. I think we're already. Uh. being kind. Gotcha. Thanks. Lisa.
Sean Fair: so next steps on. this would be. I'm assuming. a continuation. um. Alex. I'll leave it up to applicant on the 24th of September. the eighth of October. in terms of what time is easiest. what comes next? But I guess Kevin. you have a feel for which one of those is probably Kevin O'Leary: better for y'all. I don't think we're going to have much progress on the tree count issue before the 24th we can try. if we don't have a lot of progress. we can just go on another continuance from that. I would say. continue to the 24th and we'll at least report to the Commission progress. Okay.
Sean Fair: can I get a motion for a continuance to September 24 sometime after 630 Luke Legere: please. So moved. Sean Fair: Thank you. Luke. Do I hear a second second? Thank you. That was Jenny that time. Uh. Roll call. please. Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke Legere. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. I think Kevin say right there we got you coming next public meeting. This is for two. A. whoops. drop my screen. There we go. For two. A. again. 13 Streeter road lot. A. one. dash. D. Dash 1044. it's continuing request for determination file pursuant to waylands wetlands and water resource protection by law and the Wetlands Protection Act submitted by Carol set off for the demolition existing single family house and construction of a five bedroom single family home and associated utilities. including a driveway. walkway. septic system and a storm water management system at lot one. a of the 13 Charena Road subdivision. Wayland. mass. the product is shown on assessors map 38 lot 157. and is located within 100 foot buffer zone. excuse me. of a boring. vegetative wetland. Linda Hansen: Linda. we received. DDT is peer review response on September 3. I believe that's part of your package. There's still a few questions highlighted on here. especially on the attachment. Haven't responded today. which you guys have not seen. So I do have some. yeah. I still think there's some open questions that need to be addressed on this one. So and Carol and I had a lot of back and forth on the easements. the way the deeds were written. And I did. just for clarification. I went to our town or our town surveyor. who did not. did not think there was any drainage easement written into the deed. So I'm not sure if you guys are still proposing to drain your water into US Fish and Wildlife land. but I. I'm happy to take it to town council. but that was mine. and the town surveyors read an interpretation of the deed that there is no drainage easement to allow you to to discharge your driveway water into US Fish and Wildlife land.
Kevin O'Leary: the Linda. I think what what you're referring to. I'm a little bit familiar with it. but it's into an existing head wall. There's an existing drain pipe that comes from the driveway on the private way and goes to a head wall. It's on the north side of the driveway and is located at the pull the plans up and stuff. but located on the Fish and Wildlife land. which was property formerly owned by the owners of 13 Charena. Carol Seto. who is here with me. is looked into this more or greater than me to greater depth. But generally. the the owners. the previous owners of 13 Charena. reserve the right to that easement. So I'm not clear what language you or the town surveyor is hedging for to say it's. it's not applicable. but it's. there's a there's a drainage easement laid out on the record survey plans for the property. And I reviewed the very briefly. reviewed the associated document with it. It looked in order. but I didn't look at it in detail. So could you give a little bit more why you think it's not applicable? Linda Hansen: Well. I'm looking for the Dean language. I can't pull it up right now. I don't have it immediately in front of me. Where it went. I just went through this whole stack looking for your tree plan that I thought. You had submitted. So I think I messed everything up. But it said something about may be discharged with. you know. under anyway. I can't even quote that. but I'm happy. I mean. if. if. if we want to get clarification on that. I guess the best way to do that is to ask our town council for 100% clarification on it. But again. you know that I the discharge. I If you're going to discharge water. it's going to be from the private way. What you're you're proposing is discharging the the runoff from the entire driveway. from the barn. into the street and then into us. Fish and Wildlife land. and I again. the way I read the deed. It doesn't
Kevin O'Leary: it's okay to share screen. I kept the sub the plan that shows the plot of these. And if that'll be a help. I
Linda Hansen: it says. reserving to take water and repair and maintain the pipes to the present well on the premises. And again. this. this is a deed for 13. A Charena. okay. your deed is for 13. Unknown: Go back to the first easement. I don't Linda Hansen: think we need to have that discussion tonight. I would. I'm more than happy to take it to our town council for their their opinion. But I am concerned that that's. I'm not sure that is you have the right to do that. so Unknown: do not share it. yes.
Sean Fair: So I guess there's something y'all. y'all want to send our town council just get official opinion. Yeah. Linda Hansen: I mean. we should take this offline. It's not worth having a discussion here tonight. because I think it's. again. it requires probably a legal interpretation for this. So I just don't want us to approve something if we don't. if we don't have a full understanding what the easement is and whether or not they have the right to discharge onto somebody else's property Sean Fair: between now next meeting. then you'll work with our town council. Linda Hansen: Yeah. no. that's fine. We can do that Unknown: in this still a determination. Evan.
do you want to
show that? And then two? One. Sean Fair: okay. mission. Any other thoughts. comments. concerns on this one. I can't get this in the way. This is. I agree with Luke Legere: Linda. I think we need I think it makes sense to just have this. have town council look. and we can reconvene on this next time. Seems. seems too thorny. No way. I don't think we're going to resolve this tonight. I sure.
Sean Fair: So. yes. then same thing continue. Unknown: Then excuse me. 20. can I? Can I offer some information? Sure. Go ahead. Okay. so I have forwarded to Linda from my attorney. the Eastman that was provided by the previous owner. the Hager family. back in 1965 when they own the parcel of land that include the part that was later so to us. Fish and Wildlife at that point. there was a drainage easement and also a conservation easement. And I have provided to Linda those documents and the plan they were in the town. Town clerk's office there was 1965 and in 1966 behavior built the private road. as well as the House and the well. 1968 he divided up. he took a parcel of the land where the well is located. and then sold it to US Fish and Wildlife. In that particular deed that Linda was referencing has the language that said. the grand tour reserve the right to take water and to access the well. as well as reserve the right for drainage and easement. So basically. there's like two documents that we need to look at. The first one is the drainage easement and conservation easement in 1965 and it has been kept in the town clerk's office when the grand tour owned the entire. Parcel. including us. fish and wildlife. Then the second document we need to look at is the D that later on showing they specifically call out a further reservation that they reserve the right for the existing well. because at that point. the well was built in 1967 prior to the first Eastman that was granted in 1965 and in that the D. the later D. had the two language in there to talk about reserving the right for the Eastman and the well.
Sean Fair: gotcha. Thank you. So. I mean. yeah. so I think just having our attorney sign off either way. just so we can make a decision that they can back. But so. I mean. what is there any issue getting that between now and 24th I'm assuming? Linda Hansen: I don't think so. I don't think so.
Sean Fair: Commission. are we good with continuing to the 24th
so is there anything else?
Luke Legere: Yeah. I think we have to Unknown: my feeling good. Kevin O'Leary: Well. the if I could talk please. I'm sorry. the the drainage easement is it serves or it's connected to drain in holes and catch basins existing in Charena in the private way of Charena Road. or for 13 Charena Road lot a One with the request for the termination of applicability
doesn't have an increase in flow in post development conditions to those drainage structures. So it's it's unjust to hold up processing the request of the termination of applicability for lot. a one on a drainage easement that's not even on the project site. and we're not draining. we're showing the reduction of runoff at the lot line. So it feels like we're getting dragged backwards with this issue that isn't directly connected to Lot. a one. Luke Legere: Well. if I so. I think there. This isn't the only issue. though. Mr. Earlier. if I'm not mistaken. I think you know. as Linda was saying off the top. we're there's still the peer review. And I there have been comments back and forth. but I haven't had a chance to review those. I think we said we got them today. I don't recall seeing them in the packet. So unless I misunderstood something there. I have seen everything. I think we're going to be we would need to continue anyhow. So I don't you know. the idea that. like. we're holding it up just because of this one issue I don't think is correct. Kevin O'Leary: Well. I it's. it's an issue that's not directly connected to this. to the RDA that it's. it serves the subdivision Road. which is the prior hearing. Linda Hansen: But Kevin. I'm looking at your plan that says lot one cedar wood Lane dated August. We received it August 4. 2025. and you have a drainage going right into us. Fish and Wildlife right there. So how is that not related to this project? Okay. all the driveway runoff from the barn. and you're sending it to what you said. some some Kevin O'Leary: catch basins are shown. The catch patients are shown on the subdivision plan. That's been part of the that's the Notice of Intent filing. Linda Hansen: But you're also proposing to take the entire barn. barn driveway runoff and send it in there too. And I think you only have. if you have any drainage rights. it's only for the private road. you know. And that's. that's what I want clarification Kevin O'Leary: on. Okay? It's not just for the private road. it's for the entire property. Linda Hansen: Well. let's get clarification on that. Kevin O'Leary: Okay. but in addition to Linda the the hydrological analysis for lot. a one doesn't increase the flow off the lot of lot. A one. yes. it does drain into the private road and down to the existing catch basins. which then flow into drain manholes. into that existing head wall. but it's not an increase in flow. Linda Hansen: Okay. I but I think I would like some clarity on on the right to drain onto somebody else's property. Okay?
Unknown: What do you mean by somebody else? Sean Fair: So I mean. I also agree with Luke. we just we would have to continue this either way. We're just getting information we haven't seen yet. So we can kind of do a two for one. for next. on The 24th Kevin O'Leary: right and on DG T's comments from I think it was September 3. and I wrote a response and submitted it today. or emailed it to Linda Fay all of their all the information that DGT References. In that September 3 that the data they're looking for is attainable. It can be provided. and it's. you know. it'll show reductions in flows post development flows. We just. you know. haven't had time to prepare all the detail that may be required. We keep giving them information to say. Okay. we're. you know. our curve numbers are amenable to less flow. And they say. Okay. well. do the drawn out analysis give us all the. you know. multiple storm events or. you know. it's just. it's. it's a maddening Paper Chase So. but. you know. we're showing a decrease in impervious area on the post development conditions for lot. a one. So. you know. just. it just makes sense that it's. you know. a reduction in flow. But that's what we've been able to analyze and and respond with to the Commission on the DGT comments. Linda Hansen: Let's have the Commission have a look at those. Unknown: Okay. perfect. Sure. Sean Fair: Alright. So can you motion? I think if we're all good for continuance. then actually we're no no motion. Sorry. we're public meeting. So I guess I will just kick this then to the 24th and we'll get our attorneys thoughts and be ready to rock and roll. and then we go that commission. Yes. awesome. All right. so we'll. I'll see you here in a few weeks. Then. Kevin. All right. thank you. Unknown: Thanks guys. You're welcome. Okay. there
Sean Fair: three a chapter 193 tree replacement. Let me not kick this one off. Linda Hansen: Did we vote? We're just going to continue. Sean Fair: Barbara continue. Barbara didn't Unknown: vote to continue. Say. again. you didn't call for a vote to continue. Sean Fair: It's public. It's a public meeting for a request for determination. Unknown: Always a public meeting.
Sean Fair: I Barbara. I forgive you. It's your first week here.
Well. I'm a someone things flagging me here one second Linda Hansen: they're asking about public comment on 13. Sean Fair: Charena. why can't I see that? All I see is. who is? Her hand up.
Linda Hansen: No. I think it's chat. okay.
Sean Fair: Oh. in the chat got. yeah. Connie. so she and attendee one second.
Unknown: Connie. you there? Yes. I am. Can you hear me? I can start with that. Yes. please. Thank you very much. I'm at 19 Charena Road. Connie. asking regarding the trees and the drainage. I would encourage the commission toward conservatism regarding the removal and replacement of trees. It's not just a stand of trees. It's uphill from a sensitive waterway. There's a flooding concern. given all the hard scape development and now five large buildings and driveways. etc. So Lisa. thank you for calling out that. although invasive. and definitely for trees that are less than 100% healthy. they are still absorbing and slowing rain water and improving soil infiltration. And so. you know. I just continue to be worried as downhill from this development. and really the lowest property in the area about the flooding. It seems like this project continues to grow. and the concern for the trees is is something I wanted to register. Thank you. Sean Fair: Thanks. Scott. Appreciate it. I see nobody else. Okay. so 193 let me kick this off. Sure. Linda Hansen: Yesterday. I had a phone call with Emily cherbo from time bond. who is right drafting our revisions to the chapter 193 regulations. She wanted a little bit more guidance on the tree replacement requirements. because basically most of the comments. many of the comments we received. were regarding. you know. the tree removal. tree compensation section. And so I think we all understand that the original guidance that we. Received back like five years ago is probably fairly unsatisfactory. As far as you know. one you can take down five trees and replace with one or something like that. Shannon did a great analysis and pulled up some of the other neighboring towns recently. What was that? Maybe a year ago now. I guess. or less. And so you know. on a regional basis. towns. Wellesley. Concord. Lexington. what's the other one? Missing one? Newton? Newton. yes. that's right. They're all doing a much more robust tree requirement to preserve the canopy and all these other things. So I think historically. we discuss about doing a one to one replacement. which is one inch to one inch. right? And I then I think Shannon and I might have had an offline discussion about that at some point. thinking that maybe what we're asking is a little too much. and it's. you know. and we're going to carefully consider the comments that were submitted for the chapter 193 regulations. And maybe it makes sense more of a two to one. So two inches removed. one inch replaced. And so she's again. this is. this is a discussion. just to give Emily cherbo some guidance of how what we want to see in the draft regulations. which we would like to be. we'd really like them to be a. not maybe a final version. but probably closer to final than anything we've had so far. And what she's also done is completely. I think she's rearranged most of the regulations. you know. just she's reorganized everything. So this is and we should be seeing that shortly. but I just didn't know if we wanted to open up this discussion. Does is the commission comfortable with the discussion that Shannon and I had recently. or maybe a month or so ago. about proposing a two inch to one inch replacement for trees and and with some. you know. consideration of putting in shrubs where it's appropriate. or maybe where it's might be a better fit for the for the property. you know. allowing at least some flexibility. Maybe so was everybody
Luke Legere: think. sorry. at least I didn't mean to Yeah. but no. you're I defer to Shannon and all things tree and vegetation.
Linda Hansen: the queen of trees. That was Unknown: gonna be my next question. because it came up. you know. obviously earlier today is. you know. is it a tree for a tree? A shrub for a shrub? So. if it's. the general rule is. you know. it's. you know. one inch for every two inches for a tree. you know. subject to consideration by the Conservation Commission. right where shrubs might be appropriate. But I think. certainly we probably all agree in. you know. the proposal we saw for rice road and the in the church. like just clear cutting all the trees and replacing most of them with shrubs is just not really the spirit of that. Linda Hansen: So. no. I can. I can send along the information that Shannon sent a while ago. You know. they the the other communities make a really strong argument for. you know. preserving the tree Canva canopy and the values of trees. And I think. I think it's important as to to sort of regulate more on a regional basis. You know. we don't want to be an outlier. necessarily. like what everybody else is doing. And I think I like the idea of of. you know. making this more of a sort of a bigger community effort. So what do you think? Unknown: Just a quick question. Linda. when you said. you know. we could allow shrubs or have some flexibility as we see fit. Will there be. like. guidelines to go along with that? Or do you see those discussions happening during Conservation Commission. like during hearings? Linda Hansen: Oh. I think we should really have some guidelines in that. I mean. right now. I think it's a little bit too generous for for shrubs. We're the Conservation Department here. Are in favor of shrub planting just because they do provide. often. fruit and food for the winter. for birds. So it's and. you know. so does poison ivy for that matter. But I don't think a lot of people want. we can't be suggesting that we plant that. I guess. But. you know. I think. I think we should have some guidance in there regarding shrubs. And. you know. that's. that's something that we could. we can discuss when we go through the public hearing to adopt the regulations. you know. maybe coming up with some final numbers. But I think what we really need to the decision we meet need to make tonight. and I don't think we need to take a vote. We just have to be in agreement with do we want to have a little bit more robust tree compensation than we originally proposed five years ago. which was the. you know. I think we. Like I said. I think we all think is inadequate at this point. Sean Fair: So. so two thoughts. One is to be very clear. We we're not. we can't keep picking this can. right? So be very clear. I'm calling for a vote. if not. next week on the eighth. We're not dilly dallying over it. So I want all final answers. and now this should have been done a year ago. frankly. and so not interested in that's my first comment. We're not kicking this can. so we're coming to a vote next time. regardless of where things are. second is. I'm okay with we want to be like our regions. but we can't say that in one breath then say our regions are Wellesley. Newton and Cambridge. Those are people trying. I don't I we are Wayland. We are basically our river runs right on the western side of our border. We should be more canopy than Wellesley and Natick and game. I don't care what they do. right. what Tom Weston does. right? Tell me what Sudbury does. Those are our regions. and that's and they're a one to one. So again. if we're thinking about scaling it back. and let's be very clear. we heard from eight people four times a piece for a 13.000 person town. we did not get feedback. Let's be very clear who were capitulating To what end. So if we're me. no. we're a one to one. And if you want to. you know. talk about maybe losing that for some some examples. I'd be open to that this town is. you give an inch. they'll take a mile. If it's there. no one's going to like what we come up with. They're going to not like it regardless. one to one to one. a two to one. so let's not kid ourselves that this is gonna be. Oh. great. ConCom up the best thing ever. Let's. let's all adopt it. People aren't gonna like it. Let's be very Luke Legere: clear you're not expecting a parade. Sean Fair: It'll be. it'd be the same voices who don't like it before. You know. shocker. right? So I'm over that part already. but if we're doing a region. town of town. then our then we need to look at what was Weston. Concord. Sudbury. do? Those are our regions? Not. So let's be careful what we're how we're doing that. and what that looks like. And so whatever answers we give. and I'm happy to consider the two to one on one and discuss it. Unknown: Look at Lincoln. What's say. again. Barbara. we should look at Lincoln. Sean Fair: Lincoln exactly right. Actually. lovely. wooded farming communities with a little bit of a tiny downtown call. We have a downtown question. I was gonna say concrete Shannon Fischer: is excellent on this. Concord has some very strong rules. and they have it baked into their their construction is tree protection with the with the goal of not taking down trees. I actually don't know that Lincoln is that robust like we may be able to we may be kind of leading the charge here. I think we'd have to go back and look at their things again. But Lincoln. but Concord and Lexington certainly are excellent. yeah. Newton too. though. yeah. Newton. but Newton's a city. You're the leader. right? Linda Hansen: Like he tells river running through it too. So. you know. they do have a rivering environment also. if you wanted to make those comparisons. Shannon Fischer: So I mean Newton. if you take down like a like. it goes up incrementally. So like it starts at one to one. but when you start taking down. like a legacy tree. it's three to one. You plant three inches for every inch removed when you're taking down. like a 40 inch diameter tree. but then. like the other time. but like. Concord is great. Lexington is great. but I think we have to double check what Lincoln is doing. But you know. Sean Fair: yeah. so Sean. so most of those. other than the one you just mentioned that with a graduating scale of legacy trees and ratios changing. Aren't most of those kind of like a one to one. So if we just said we're we'll do a one to one replacement. And when obviously cases like this come before us. okay. well maybe that's. you know. maybe we can be a little flexible here. That's a legacy tree on So. so I just caution us we're doing a lot of work for a regulation that we basically all adopt. And said we like this a few months ago. for a handful of people saying the same thing multiple times. right? And so let's make sure that the tail is not wagging the dog here a bit. That'd be my only thought. And if that means we have to take future fights on. We save too many trees. I'll fight that all day long. They're gonna say that there's regardless of our ratios. that we give them. So let's just be very clear on the outcome of this. Unknown: I have a question on that. So just again. because I'm new to this. and I actually dialed into one of those public hearings. are you saying you only got a few number of comments on the draft. and it was people more against having more strict rules. Sean Fair: We got. we'll say a handful. say 10 or less. comments from the same with the same kind of thing. right? So we didn't get 50. 100 comments from all over the board. It was a very right. Unknown: It's just interesting. like you. Think about what happened tonight with rice road and all of the neighbors that were like. This is why we live here. you know. And that's what I talked about when I joined the commission with the slug. This is why I lived. you know. it's just. I'm not familiar with how we get the word out. I forget where I saw it. if it was just in our Wayland newspaper. But. you know. there's a whole bunch of people that were on the call tonight that would probably love to see these more strict guidelines in place. you know. so it's. it's too bad we're not seeing those type of people come out and provide those comments. But you know. from my perspective. you know. I'd love to have more. I know we'll have a fight on our hands. but you know. to have it down in writing is just much more powerful. because right now it just. it seems like there's very confusing. It's. you know. number of inches in different categories. and it can be shrubs or trees. So I do like where we're going in is my general comment. Shannon Fischer: and I will add one more. And this is mostly just to. just to. like. lay it all out. I believe that one of the four towns that I'd put in that original table that I gave to Linda is using a point five. So it's using the the one inch removed point five replaced. or two inches removed one replace. So I believe one of those. those is so that's not completely out of left field. and I'm just saying that. So. like. all the cards are on the table. Yeah. I can't remember which one. right?
Sean Fair: Yeah. so. so. yeah. I'm. I'm. I'm okay if we want to discuss changing it. but make sure we're. we're. in my opinion. changing it for the right reasons versus Oh. we heard feedback. not really. not statistically. Statisticians say. No. you didn't right. 13.000 people. 10 saying things is not statistically relevant. And so I'd go with what Lisa said. Anecdotally. I've been doing chair now for eight years. I know what people what drives people they hate seeing trees removed. It's just they don't. No one's gonna come to a meeting where we're talking about regulations. They will come when the butter says we're gonna take down trees in your backyard. right? So that's motivational factors of where we are as human beings right now aside. that's kind of how I how I judge our feedback on what we're doing. is when push comes to shove. what people and so that's my anecdotal. But I'd say more maybe relevant than handful people chiming in constantly. So that said. Linda. your ask is whatever we discuss here is being put in this final version that they're working on so we can finally pass this thing in a few weeks. So let's be very directive what we're asking them to do. So we're not doing this again in two weeks. then again in two weeks. right? So let's just be very directive what we're asking them for. or not for. to change thoughts. Do we on tree in particular? Do we want to keep it at one to one. which we have? Do we want to see if to go to two to one? Do we want to give a shrubs don't count. or shrubs count for a different ratio. or it's a four to one on a shrub? Or if we commission. can say what let's let's get as specific as we can. so we can just pass whatever they give to give us back for a draft. Luke Legere: I mean. my two cents. I think you've heard me say this more than once. I just like the idea of discretion. right? So. like my preference is we set pretty tough standards. which I think is what we're talking about here. but we also give ourselves the discretion to have a little flexibility in there. So taking like trees versus shrubs. for example. you know. we're starting from a baseline of trees. but we also have the discretion to allow for some shrubs to take the place of those trees in appropriate circumstances where that's. you know. something that we think makes sense based on the project that's in front of us. Because no. no two are the same. right? No two properties are the same. no two proposals are the same. So. you know. I that's sort of where I'm at. I guess I'm would lean a little bit more towards maybe sticking with what we had. but allowing ourselves the flexibility to be a little less less heavy handed. You know. as we see fit. I'm Linda Hansen: also thinking of something that we can achieve. you know. I mean. I don't want every. every commission hearing or meeting to turn into a battle. you know. about how many trees have to be replaced. how many trees have to be compensated for? And. you know. we have quite a few. Know. a lot of South Wayland is very small lots. It's going to be hard to achieve some of this. you know. one to one. I think. And that's. that's again. where you're saying that. you know. we have to have some discretion and flexibility. But at the starting point. Mean. I think that's. you know. we have to come up with something that's achievable and reasonable. You know that? I think that's what I'm looking for. Luke Legere: Yeah. that's a good point. Linda. yeah. So I guess I'm. you know. I'm comfortable sort of backing to. back to the point we made off the top. It sounds like you and Shannon had some discussions. and sort of came to an agreement amongst yourselves that maybe backing off the one to one was okay. and I'm comfortable with that. but I think my comments a moment ago still apply. I just I like the idea of giving ourselves a little flexibility within the regs to tailor whatever we're requiring to the lot and the project that we're looking at that given night. Unknown: right? Either one? Oh. sorry. Sean. sorry. Just curious. Luke. how would we write in that flexibility? Luke Legere: Yeah. so there's. you know. there's different ways we could do it. right? Jenny. like you could allow for waivers. right? We could grant waivers. or we could just say something along the lines of. you know. thou shalt do two to one. unless. in the opinion of the commission. you know. and to your point earlier. general. we need some. I think. pretty clear guidelines on like. how many shrubs equal a tree. right. for example. But unless. in the opinion of the commission. shrubs are an adequate replacement. you know. something along those just. just so that it's kind of clear. like. to Linda's point. I think. a moment ago. or maybe sort of what she was getting at. like. we've got our baseline that we're starting from. This is what we're required. This is we're going to require generally. So we're not every single time haggling over it well. you know. this is. this is a negotiation. Let's talk. It's like. no. here's what we're going to require. If you have legitimate reasons for why we should waive those requirements. or why we should allow shrubs instead of trees. present them to us. and we'll consider those. That's so it's totally doable. I think there's a couple of different ways to skin the cat.
Sean Fair: It's so. yeah. so I'd add to that. I guess be a little contra in there. When we do a one to one or two to one. it's not gonna make one ounce of difference of how many means we talk about trees. what counts. We'll do that regardless of ratios. It's not gonna make one ounce of difference what ratio we use something to always want to push back. Well. you say it's a two to one. but what if we gave you so we're going to. every time we talk to applicants with negotiation. why don't we start with a one to one. if we all want a and believe we came to Wayland for a wooded area start there. they're going to squawk and cry into it and play The same games we get to play with every applicant. and just play those games with a stronger hand. right? So. you know. I think. why would we handicap ourselves going into and I agree with with what Luke said. And Jenny. let's get I'm all about waivers. I don't want things that come before us. like the process supposed to be so Linda and applicant can. can solve most of things on their own without ever having to come to us. But when it does come to us. I want the firepower. as it were. or the ability to say. no. no. hold on. Here's what the regulations say. We'll work with this. but here's our standard. right? They're going to push back in the sand regardless. And so yeah. again. I can be I can be. I can be convinced off the one to one. but I haven't heard any of the reasons we're considering it. Not one will be solved by changing our ratios from one to one to two to one. They're all going to exist the exact same way. the exact same amount of time. We're gonna be having this discussion with every applicant we come across. So I go back to. I'd rather have that heavier hand. as it were. with with. again. with not my knowledge. but the knowledge of people we come across. they live in Wayland. To be have a wooded. shaded. tree driven area. Let's have that in our in our pocket and and again. we are well within our border town. What they're doing anyways. And so again. we're not being radical. We're being very transparent. We're making the process easier. I'm happy to defend this to the hilt if we went to one to one with anybody working. So that's kind of my my thought. I don't see why we do it based on what we're talking about. Shannon Fischer: I can be walked back from the point five to one if you know that's. that's what folks were. or want that that was sort of an appeasement move on. On my end. I'm obviously in favor of tree canopy. And I think. based on. you know. some of the last few meetings. we can all see why this is essential. So if. if that's the the sense of the rest of the commission. I'm happy to turn back to One to One?
Unknown: Yeah. I pointed this out when I gave comments to it like. right? The few years ago. the town declared a climate emergency. and yet they want to clear cut 500 trees from property. And trees are. you know. they're not just important for water. they are important for Sean. Shade their point. They're important for carbon sequestration. I mean. it is. It's one thing that we can do to help. So. you know. and I think Sean to your point. it's negotiation. one on one. If you started off a higher point. you're more likely to end where you want to be. So. you know? Why not? I mean. I'm. I'm new to this. I'm probably going to regret it. but. yeah. one to one. why not start? There other towns have done it. Linda Hansen: It will say everybody should be assigned the reading from Wayland Post this week. right? Shannon. what's that? There's an article in Wayland Post this week about trees. you know. and Shannon Fischer: see what. where did it fall on it? Huh. what was. what was it on? Linda Hansen: So it was a retired writer from Nova who went to a talk from a retired test professor. and sort of summarize that. There's a couple of quotes from me. He interviewed us too. here in the office. and it's just. you know. it's real. It's a real. It's exactly what we're talking about. We got to save canopy. you know. 100% we have to save canopy. Shannon Fischer: So I have to read that. I'm got slammed with work this week. so it'll be. it'll be nice to see that piece. And I'll say. like. on the super hot days we had this summer. and we had a lot the difference between standing in the sun and one walking under a tree is is significant. Like. it makes a difference. I can't wait to read that article. Unknown: you know. So. like. if you ever like hiking. like main stone farm and you go into the parking lot. you have to walk through the meadow first before you get into the woods. and as soon as you get into the woods. and that's what my husband and I do on hot days. yep. Sean Fair: And also just make sure we're all tracking we're I've been banging this drum now for God knows how many years. we will have a tree bank set up. right? And basically what it is is a we can't place replace all trees. You need to just based on one to one. We'll do this. but we'll buy these or go to a tree bank that we. the commission. can either go. So not only is a standard set for what we're going to be negotiating. but talking about homeowners and again. helping them through. you know. but also it's for the bigger projects that right? And so if canopy covers what we're actually trying to do in Wayland. I'll go less beat one more time. having a better ratio of one to one for not just the the projects. but for any future tree bank that is. that is next on this. It's coming very quickly. I think would also help as a baseline for that that we can use always negotiate from so to get that horse one more time. but I think we stay at one to one and kind of all right. And last thing real quick on. just so Linda can give them so we come back with a final draft one to one ratio on the tree versus shrub versus hedge or whatever. Do we want to leave it very open language. where it's a we're talking about trees right now. and if and when they can't we. or Linda. if it doesn't. ever gets to us. we'll discuss what maybe an appropriate replacement. shrub wise versus trees. Or do we want to put in a ratio right now. where to afford? What do we How? How much do we want to give that directive so we can pass this next time. and I also never think through the shrubs next time. how open do we want to keep this?
Linda Hansen: I think we should put some guidelines down. and we have them now already. you know. some. some just rough guidelines for replacing trees shrub. you know. replacing trees with shrubs. So we can come up with some the same. you know. same ratio. same ratio. yeah. Shannon Fischer: venture the same like. maybe a legacy tree. like a really. like a mature tree. 25 inches larger like that. That shouldn't be replaced with just shrubs like that. That's worth treating like we're talking to smaller trees Linda Hansen: for that. smaller trees. yes.
Sean Fair: Okay. Any other feedback for Linda to give? Give them on on this so we can get this thing passed.
Unknown: Cool. Oh. sorry. I just one more thought. because it came up today. and again. maybe we don't write this in but the topic had come up with. is it Charena? Charena Road. Karina. You know. dead trees. invasive trees? Do we need to replace those? And this is something that could come up. because. unfortunately. there's bittersweet choking trees everywhere. and trees that look dead. but they still have some life in them. And you know. again. we can't write into this regulation and keep it simple and try to you. To try to address every single possible scenario. But has this. my question to you guys is. Has this come up before. like. do I need to replace this dead tree? Do I need to replace. you know. this Norway maple? Should we have some just general language about that? Like. subject to review. but that's something that I would think would come up quite a bit. Linda Hansen: Oh. yeah. I mean. again. that's. that's Sean's comment about. you know. give them an inch. they'll take a mile. So we have to be pretty careful with that. I don't want to regulate dead trees. I don't want to regulate Norway or Maples or a Tree of Heaven. But I think our purpose here is to regulate and manage tree. you know. a healthy tree canopy. And so. I mean. I think we should keep that. that narrow focus. at least. and not start branching out. And I mean. again. I don't consider a tree that has bittersweet on it dead. It's if it has a canopy. it's still alive. you know. So I. you know. I don't. I'm not. I'm not swayed by that argument. Let's just say that so Shannon Fischer: I know I like I've spoken with an arborist who does a lot of native restoration. And you know. you flail Mo. you do it when the ground is frozen. It's not going to disrupt things as much. You paint the thicker stumps of the bittersweet with Triclopyr. You see what comes up like it. It takes a cycler too. but the tree can absolutely come back from that. Linda Hansen: Yep. All right. let's move on here. Sean Fair: Yeah. oh. we got one quick raise hand. Someone raise a hand. One second. make sure it's not for this. Unknown: Vanessa. Hi. can you hear me? Yes. I'll keep this quick. because I know it's late and you guys want to go to bed. I kind of just identify yourself. please. Oh yeah. yes. Sorry. I should know this by now. Vanessa. Jason. 11. Charena. I actually have. like. a random comment that has nothing to do. I mean. you guys know I love trees. but that has nothing to do with 193 and I was just kind of. um. is it okay if I say something. or does it have to relate to that good? Yep. Okay. I just wanted to let you guys know I tried to get in touch with the town manager. but his email bounced back to me twice. So I figured. well. I was fair. I would say something. but there is a pretty hardy patch of Japanese knotweed on the conservation trails. actually. like. right on the other side of 13 Charena. is that? So could we. like do something about that? Or do you guys. like care about those things? Because it's. it was there last year. and I didn't say anything. and now it's like doubled in size. Linda Hansen: Well. let me just say that you're probably never going to win. win the fight with Japanese knotweed. However. you know. we. I don't. I don't permit invasive removal. I don't think we should be permitting invasive removal. We should encourage it. And and all the. all the places. workshops I've been and. you know. with discussion about how to eradicate that. I think the one thing that was people had some success with is mowing it like it's grass. You know. don't let the thing grow at all. Don't let any energy go down into the root system. You know. no photosynthesis all. Just keep mowing it and mowing it and mowing it and mowing it all summer and. you know. you just weakening it. is what you're doing. And I mean. it might pop up somewhere else. but. I mean. the other methods for like putting eye drop. you know. eye drop by eye drop. it herbicide into each each stock is just way too time consuming and possible. basically. But. you know. I've done that in my neighborhood. I just. I pull. I pull a lot of stuff. I mow it all down. And. you know. it's the plot has very much diminished from what it was years ago. But again. it's. it's. you know. you gotta. you gotta. you have to do something you can manage. you know. something. something that's not super. super time consuming. Shannon Fischer: So is this. Unknown: just to be clear. it's on. it's on conservation land. It's not on my property. So I didn't know if that was something that I don't know who maintains the it's right. that's like. basically right on one of the trails where on greenways. yeah. on greenways. it's. it's like. so random. I don't know if maybe there was. like. some clippings or something that got there from. you know. one time. but it's like. in a really random spot. and it hasn't spread too far yet. so I thought maybe it was worth mentioning. But yeah. it's on one of the greenways trails. It's like on the other side of 13 Charena. where the neighborhood. like. kind of where you guys were doing your site visit? It's right up there. Yeah. Linda Hansen: Sadly. that's most that's owned by the Select Board. So the Conservation Commission doesn't mean. oh. okay. so that's svt. I'm not sure they do much in that area. either they're they're focusing their efforts on the other side of greenways. And so we maintain 1200 acres. We really can't take on somebody else's property. Unknown: Okay. I'm sorry. I thought that was in your jurisdiction.
Linda Hansen: That goes back to Sean. I think is asked a number of times. I want you to just give it to conservation to manage. you know. and but I think they're holding out for maybe they want to develop it. I don't know. but. Sean Fair: but Vanessa. if you don't mind. send to the Select Board. you say. Hey. your patch of greenways needs some some updating. and see if that that may help spur some Linda Hansen: things. But. yeah. okay. the whole property is nothing but buckthorn at this point. I'm well aware.
Unknown: Yeah. okay. so Wayland Select Board would be the person. Yeah. interesting. Okay. thank you. I didn't know that. I'm sorry. Sean Fair: I appreciate it. Unknown: All right. good night. guys.
Sean Fair: Okay. so we have 193 set to go. 3b vote to appoint chair and vice chair positions. So I think I've spoken to most or all of you. Here's kind of where we landed this. This is for realsies. This time I said I wouldn't do this again. But
there's we talked about implementing a system. right? And so I think I've been chair house coming to my eighth year. way too long. right? Should only be a year or two. So we thought maybe having kind of like a musical chairs and kind of ascending up. right? You become Vice Chair. Kind of get your feet wet next year. your chair. you roll off. back in line. and we kind of have this automotive assembly line kind of thing going and again. I'll let Shannon speak for herself. but I said I would sit one more time as chair for another year. so Shannon can kind of possibly sit as vice chair. learn the ropes. see all that kind of fun stuff. with the intent that next year. again. typically this happens at the end of June. right? Is when that technically should happen. We're late for whole host reasons. And then Shannon would take over chair and move up. And so a is that. for those who I spoke with. is that what we discussed. spoke with. does idea sound good to everybody? Any violent objections. any moat. and we'll start there. and we'll wait for the motions. But thoughts on that system? Luke Legere: Yeah. that's. sounds like what we talked about. Sean. I think that makes sense. It's only fair nobody should have to do this for a decade.
Shannon Fischer: Yeah. I'd ask you to clue me in a little bit. like. you know. like. loop me in on what you're doing a little bit as you do this so I can see what what you do. Sean Fair: Yeah. you mean like. during the week when I'm not. yeah. Shannon Fischer: when you're cheering. like. tell me you know the like. let me know if I'm taking on the Vice Chair. I should know all the ins and outs. and then Luke gets to be vice chair after me.
Sean Fair: Okay. so yes. Shannon. your point. I'm happy Unknown: to the vice chair doesn't automatically. has never automatically gone up to chair. right? Sean Fair: Yeah. 100% right. Barbara. I guess my thinking is and for those newbies. My predecessor. Sherry. had done it for for several years before I was asked to kind of do that. And so if. again. no one's gonna ever have a gun to their head. right? So never want to make someone do anything. But if we know. it's my opinion. if people coming to this commission board know. hey. typically this how it goes. newbies gotta get several years to get their drink from the fire hydrant of information before they're asked to do anything of significance that way. at least speaking selfishly. saying this. you know as well. too. Barbara. it's nice to know. okay. there's a light in the tunnel. and I'm not going to get. you know. leave another year stuck in that spot. necessarily. without people having the skills release. understanding what goes on. And so again. the intent is. that's the but no one's gonna have a gun to their head once get kicked off if they don't. But that's. Unknown: does she want it? Who? Sean Fair: Shannon? Shannon. oh. yeah. Jenny. speak. yeah. yeah. Shannon Fischer: Want is a strong word. but I'll take it off. Yeah. Sean Fair: Does anybody. by the way. anybody want this chair? Maybe. if that's the case. let's end this conversation right now. We can just Unknown: go put us to bed to be vice Sean Fair: Yeah. yes. you know. yeah. She I spoke about that. Yeah. This is not. Not throwing anybody. But I guess for. I guess for the rest of us. other than Shannon myself. does that sound like a decent system where next June. in theory. will be voting for Shannon to be chair. I get to go sit in the back of the bus for a little bit. and someone else gets moved into vice and that. So I guess are we all okay with that system in theory. hopefully in practice. but in theory. we'll green like that. and then we'll start with who wants to be nominated for this year. and go Luke Legere: from there. I like it. okay? Sean Fair: So I guess I'm not gonna make the most we would in theory that if we're doing that. make the motion for Shannon to be vice me to stay as chair. That system be implemented moving forward. Is that? Thank you. Luke. Do I hear a second or objections Unknown: that can think it Sean Fair: sounds like Jenny. okay. I guess for we'll go for a roll call. Then Shannon Fisher. yes. Luke was here. yes. Barb Howell. yes. Lisa opine. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. and Sean fair is a yes. Okay. Shan. hop in the seat. Goose. here we go. Public comment. I think we got them all double check. We'll go to that. Oh. I see a hand up. All right. sorry. Carry my screen over here. Carole. one second. Carole. you there? Carole Plumb: I am here. and I have just the comment of. do you have a date set for when the Snake Brook Dam repairs are actually going to start? Or do we have to wait for the money to actually show up in the account? Linda Hansen: No. we don't have a date. We still have to go out to bid. Carole. um. you know. there were some of us are optimistic that there's. you know. the FEMA money still coming. and there's a couple of us that are probably pretty pessimistic that that we're never going to see that money. I did let the Commission know last week that we did receive an $884.000 grant from the Office of Dam safety. and that was meant to be the match for the FEMA grant. And I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss this with town manager and the finance director of how we're going to proceed with this. because I think we really need to get started. I am sort of lost all. you know. hope that we're ever going to see any FEMA money. I mean. based on all the news. it sounds like that whole budget has been overspent already. So I. you know. I just really don't. I think Michael is going to try to have one more call with FEMA. just to see if. you know. there's even a slightest bit of hope of getting the funding. But I. it's. it's. I'm probably pessimistic camp. so Carole Plumb: yeah. no. I'm. you know where I stand on this whole thing. So I think I will check in with you and see how it goes tomorrow. I need to show up at a Select Board meeting and remind them what they promised. I'm more than happy to do that. because I really agree with you that I don't think we're going to see that money coming. That's just asking too much. All right. thank you. It's getting pedal. Linda Hansen: I think that was really good news that we did. I never expected to get the money from office of dam safety for $884.000 so that does you know that puts a big dent in the 1.4 million that you know we were hoping to get from FEMA. so
Sean Fair: we'll see love it when I find $800.000 finding my jeans pockets all the time. Linda Hansen: All right. moving on. Sean Fair: Where are we on to five A approving minutes. Babs. how are we feeling for the August 20 minutes. You good. Barbara. you have your vote of approval for the Linda Hansen: minutes. but she provided comments Tom today. so yeah. Okay. Sean Fair: Anybody else have any thoughts? Comments? That's good. So do approve with uh. Barbara's amendments. So moved Thank you. Luke. do I hear a second?
Unknown: Second? Sean Fair: Think I heard Shannon roll call please? Luke Legere. yes. Janet Fisher. yes. Barbara Howell. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Lisa opine. yes. And Sean fair. yes. thank you. Anything else? Linda on your docket? Oh. no. why do I talk around a little bit? I mean. no. I really want to go Linda Hansen: to bed. No stories. Want to be here any longer. Sean Fair: So all right with that. Thank you. All kind of quick motion to adjourn. So moved Thank you. Luke 12 seconds. I heard somebody a second. Who's that? Who's Barbara? Barbara. Thanks. Barbara. Last roll call tonight. Luke Legere. yes. Shannon Fisher. yes. Barbara. Howell. yes. Jenny Brown. yes. Lisa opine. yes. John Frazier. Yes. awesome. Thanks. guys. Take care. Bye.
Cultural Council
13-Aug-25 - Cultural Council
Pallavi Nagesha: Hello
everybody. It is 707. And I'm
calling to the order are the
cultural councils August
meeting. and we'll do a quick
roll call so I see Naresh
Mysore.
Naresh Mysore: Yep. Here. Pallavi Nagesha: Marie Isenberg Marie Isenburg: yes Unknown: Maryam Libdi Maryam Libdi: here. Pallavi Nagesha: and Kevin. Kevin Goodwin: yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: And this is Pallavi Nagesha. I'm here. And absent are Donna Mitra. Charles Bent and Alyssa Ao. all right. so the first order of business is the July 9 meeting minutes. Have you all had a chance to look at the meeting minutes? Unknown: Yes. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: So I'm going to Kevin Goodwin: and I. and I move approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. do I have a second?
Marie Isenburg: I have I have questions about the notes. I'm not ready for approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so let's go through the questions. Marie has questions. and we will go go go over that.
Marie Isenburg: There we go. Okay. okay. first of all. I want to ask. I mean. maybe this has to go later. but we had. we wanted to know about whether whether Kelsi confirmed that the grant was paid we are or is that okay? Maybe. wait. no. that'll come up later. Excuse him. Okay. Can I change there was no coverage by the event. by way? P and I'd like to replace that by Wayland Post. And Wayland Post grantee. reception. coverage.
okay. DEP. okay. and let me see. See. okay. I thought maybe we could change counsel. Haven't heard from Melissa. I was wondering if there was a different way we could say that. Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. so we can say the youth liaison. Marie Isenburg: The youth liaison is what we haven't heard from. the youth liaison. Or. should we say the youth liaison is still working on it? Or. or we will assume the recruiting for the youth member. Or. No. that's not right. Okay. I'll just put the youth liaison there. Okay. okay. and I'd like to take the word try out of Maryam proposed that she can do some outreach efforts for that. take the word. try to and just see that she can do some outreach efforts for that. sounds good. Okay. see. all right. that's. that's all I have. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: so. Marie. are you making the corrections? Marie Isenburg: I'm writing them down. I don't know who's doing notes tonight. Unknown: The notes will be automatically generated Correct. Marie. Marie Isenburg: well. I can. I can. I can make the corrections on this and just send it back to you. Okay. I have them underlined. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. okay. so I will once. once the corrections are made. I will repost them. and we will take a vote. I would expect all of you to respond to that email and say that you are okay with it before I send it over to post it as the official July Meeting Notes. Any questions about that? No. okay. that's fine. okay. so some of the old business utility box project update. I haven't gotten in touch with Rahul. I can so there are two things that we can do right now is either just get in touch with Rahul and have him complete the painting. or re revisit it and open it up again for for the. Participants. So
let me go over one proposal at the time. One proposal is to just me to get in touch with Rahul and get him arrange for him to complete the painting. Do I have agreement on that? Marie Isenburg: Sure if you think yes. all right. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. Miriam. are you okay with that? Yes. noi. are you okay with that? Yes. Maria. you okay with that? Yes. Kevin. are you okay with that? Yes. okay. I will get in touch with him and get him to do that. The next order of things is the grant cycle discussion. The grant this year is opening on the second of September. and it will be open until the 18th of October. I believe. Let me just double check that correct. So it is open until the 18th of October. The important dates. October 9. our financial report is due. Naresh. do you have any any questions about that? Or do you need any information? Naresh Mysore: Yeah. I need Kelsi. I think. to send me the financial statement for what's available for. you know. from our budget. So I'll ping her and get that statement. because I need that as the input to the budget. Okay. Marie Isenburg: so how's this? I have a question. yeah. has the state already appropriated a $6.900 to our account? Or do we have to wait for that? Or how does that go? Are Pallavi Nagesha: you talking about last year's? But Marie Isenburg: this year is coming up. Pallavi Nagesha: we don't have Marie Isenburg: so. oh. it's on the website. We don't think that's right.
Naresh Mysore: I haven't been notified of any. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: no. I haven't been notified either. Marie Isenburg: Oh. because all there's a long list of every LCC on on the Pallavi Nagesha: on the mass cultural website. Marie Isenburg: yeah. yeah. Oh. okay. okay. well. I saw 6900 anyway. okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: Um. I will. I will look into that. And.
Marie Isenburg: yeah. it wasn't on our LCC. on my personal. uh. information account. but it was on the general MCC site. that's what I can tell you. Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: I will. I will get a better. Yeah. I see that on the on their side. I will definitely reach out and make sure that this is what we have.
Marie Isenburg: Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: and then the publicity and signage. I have the signage up the dates we got to put the signage. Is it? Sorry. Kevin. do you have a question?
Kevin Goodwin: Who may know? Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so the signage. I got the dates for the signage. We have it. We have it for the week of October 6. So October 6 through the 13th. we will have two signage is put in. one on the Wayland. western town line. on route 20. and one near the Cochituate center fire station. So those are the two signages we'll have. We'll have them for a week. And one more thing we should do is the next couple bulletins that go out from. The town we should be on that the newsletters. So we should be on those newsletters. and I will create a write up. and I'll share it with the group. so whoever sees that. you know. the email go around for the bulletins. Just make sure that we are on it. Do uh. And the other thing is that we should also see if. if the WP Wayland press has information about the grant as well for the next couple for I know how often that paper goes out. but be there every two weeks on two weeks on Friday. Unknown: okay. so maybe starting the last this last week of August. we should Try to be in there for as well. Just make sure that Wayland post has the information about the grant as well. Maryam Libdi: As soon as we have the write up. I can share that with them. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. I will do the right. I'll create a write up and send it to you. Marie. you had you were saying something. sorry. Marie Isenburg: No. you took care of it. Thank you. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: all right. okay. anything else you want to know about the grant cycle grants before we move on. Maryam Libdi: can you say those dates again? You said September? What? Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. so the grant opens September 2. and is it the it closes. the applications open September 2. and they close. October 18.
Maryam Libdi: You want to also send it in the old school news. Unknown: yes. yeah. So whatever the write up. I'll get the write up to you by the weekend. and you can. you can share it with the school news. We can share it with Wayland press. and we can also share it with the Town bulletin.
Kevin Goodwin: Hey old school news Pallavi Nagesha: the school news letter. Kevin Goodwin: oh. okay. oh. I thought somebody said old school news Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: Now the whole school news letter. yeah. All right? And then the bulletin. road project. I know we last week. it was deferred. Do we want to talk about this today?
Marie Isenburg: I don't have anything to offer. Okay. so I have to break some All Pallavi Nagesha: right. no worries. no worries. Okay. we don't have Alyssa to do news. Up youth update. so we will skip that and on to new business. which is the youth members. Miriam. do you have information about that? Maryam Libdi: Yes. we have two interested youth members. They were sent link by the town clerk. They're actually watching us right now. but it seems like the Zoom link they were sent was a watch only and not as panelists. Yeah. there's something we can do right now. or they can just. Unknown: I only have Iniyan Gandhi watching. Is that? Is that one of the youth members. Maryam Libdi: Iniyan Gandhi and Mustafa. are both watching. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. I only see Iniyan. I can definitely allow him to. I'm going to promote him to panelists so he can. Maryam Libdi: okay. let me see if I can double check that most of us using
Marie Isenburg: good job. How did you do that?
Pallavi Nagesha: So the host can and promote people to panelists and Marie Isenburg: yeah. so I don't think how she found Oh. okay. Pallavi Nagesha: how Miriam found them? Yeah. she will have to talk about that.
Okay. there he is. okay. Maryam Libdi: okay. most of us. I think.
Pallavi Nagesha: yes. So I found him. I promoted him to a panelist. so they're both here. And welcome Iniyan and Mustafa. And if you want to turn on your microphones or videos and say hello. love to see you. Mustafa Kheir: Hi. How are you? Unknown: Hi. I am good. Iniyan Gandhi: How are we going? Pallavi Nagesha: Hi. Iniyan. so do you have questions for us? I mean. first of all. I would like you to introduce yourself to our panel.
Mustafa Kheir: Hi. my name is Mustafa here. I'm gonna be a junior in the fall. Oh. I'm interested in joining this board because. you know. I just want to have a say and where. where the grants and where the grants go in our community. and to make that difference. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. Iniyan Gandhi: Hi. I'm Joe. I'm Iniyan. I'm go to Wayland High School. Um.I'm also just interested in. like. what goes on in this town and stuff. So. yeah. so I joined. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. and Iniyan. What grade are you going to be going into? Iniyan Gandhi: I'm going to 11th grade. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so both of you. so you're a junior and you're a sophomore. Okay. perfect. Okay. so welcome. Mustafa Kheir: sorry. no. I'm also going to be we're both going to be juniors. sorry. Pallavi Nagesha: Oh. okay. all right. okay. So do you have any questions for us at this time?
Iniyan Gandhi: Nothing yet. Mustafa Kheir: Yes. Iniyan Gandhi: I guess just keep going with the procedure and all Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. Sounds good. Sounds good. So what we need you to do is send a letter to the town clerk. an email to the town clerk. expressing your interest in joining as youth liaisons on the Cultural Council. and we'll take it from there. We meet once a month on Wednesdays at 7pm It's usually the second Wednesday of every month at 7pm and most of what we do is and as you saw. if you were listening to our our meeting is kind of go over what's going. what is happening and what is left to do. A lot of our work is around the grants. but not everything. We do other things too. And you just heard us talk about the utility box painting project. That's something that we took on. And we do this like we we have our discretionary fund that we can spend on one things around the town. And occasionally we do. we do projects like this to to spend that discretionary fund. The grant process will start from September. from next month. we will not so October. November will be the first month we will start to talk about the grants. and start to vote around the grants. And we should be finished by December. because the results are due the first week of January. So we try to finish everything as early as possible. The your opinions. and of course. your inputs will be greatly appreciated. The biggest thing that we are looking for from our youth liaison is our connection to the school system. especially of any programs that you have up and coming that we can kind of get into as the Cultural Council. and also to let people know that the grant program is available open and to bring in participation from our youth into this as you know. you know. groups like the robotics group have been regularly applying to to us. and we love to see that. We'd love to see them succeed and and any other such groups or individuals who are interested in in applying for grants to do anything that is of use to our community. right? Usually. people see the Cultural Council and think of arts. But culture is not just arts. It is community. And a lot of things are under the purview of community. right? Whether it be STEM related. arts. related. politics. whatever have you. So. Uh. encourage people to look at that if they're if they have an idea and are confused and don't know that this can whether this is this comes under cultural grants. they can reach out to us. We're happy to chat with them and give them any advice that they need. So that is what we're looking at from our youth liaisons. And welcome. We're really happy to have you. Alyssa was a great partner. but she's off to college. and this is this is going to be great. So thank you. Thank you for volunteering. Mustafa Kheir: Thank you Iniyan Gandhi: for the opportunity. pall: Awesome. Okay. anything else? I didn't have any other agenda items. Do we have anything else we need to discuss at this at this time. Marie Isenburg: wondering when? When do we usually do the members update on the Mass website. we have a bunch. like three. I think we have about four members or something on that site. Maybe. Pallavi Nagesha: yeah. we should. So if you have signed in. it should automatically show you as as a member. but I will go take a look and make sure that that all the mem all the correct members are listed on that website.
And I also reached out through Jailyn to the other two members who we haven't seen and at the meetings in a while. Charles Bent and Donna Mitra. And they did get in touch with Charles who who informed them that he hasn't been getting meeting invites. and I hope they've corrected that and they gave me a phone number. I did call Charles at the beginning of the call today. just to let him know that we are meeting and it's on. I hope he does get in touch with me and we can figure that out. We haven't heard back from Donna. so I'll continue to reach out and see what's going on with them. Unknown: Do you think it would be beneficial for Mustafa and Iniyan to take the LCC member training
Pallavi Nagesha: so once they write their letter of intent to the town clerk and they get inducted. they will be sent all the necessary links to kind of join and all the training material as well. So once they sign on to the mass Cultural Council website. as as members of our Cultural Council. that page will be available to them to take the training and all of those. You know. I'm sure. Miriam. you remember the emails you got to take the training in. So they will get those as well once they sign up. but they need to submit that letter of intent and officially get on. Yeah.
Unknown: I did we talk about
Marie Isenburg: the box that was painted? I think I deleted his name. Was it from Rick last time. and I have it on the other file. Did we? Did we confirm that that was paid out? Or can we. or I thought we would get in touch with him and let him know when the process was completed. Pallavi Nagesha: So which. which Marie Isenburg: was to check with Kelsi about the payment
Pallavi Nagesha: to to
Marie Isenburg: wasn't to be coming up with the wrong file. Was it Rick? Somebody will remember? Okay. yeah. yeah. yes. yeah. So has that been confirmed that that payment has gone out?
Pallavi Nagesha: I haven't confirmed that the payment has gone out. but we did inform Kelsi that this is we've approved and then they can pay. Marie Isenburg: Did you have to submit the minutes with that. or was it just done? Pallavi Nagesha: No. she just wanted us to. I can. I can reach out and make sure that that the payment has gone out. I.
Any other discussions we have. In
that case. our next meeting is going to be on the 10th of September. at 730 and at that time. I want to see how we can by the 10th of September. I don't believe we'll have a good
numbers of applicants. It's too early. but we can start to think about how to encourage people to apply. Definitely. I think we have the idea of send sending information on the school newsletters. the town newsletters. and put it also in the Wayland post. So we will have some avenues of doing this. also Mustafa or any and if you. either of you are interested in kind of working with our social media. let me know. I can. I can add you to those accounts. And we usually post there. Mustafa Kheir: I can. I can do. I'm interested in that perfect. Pallavi Nagesha: perfect so once I'll get into I'll reach out to you. Mustafa. and we can talk about that. It's just a matter of adding you to those accounts. And so we have an Instagram account and we have a Facebook account. So Marie Isenburg: one more question. of course. Go ahead. Okay. are we doing anything for the Wayland arts or culture thing that's happening in October. Pallavi Nagesha: The Yeah. yeah. we are not Marie Isenburg: okay. Okay.
Maryam Libdi: Are we part of that? Is that the reason
Pallavi Nagesha: I am not sure we funded them this year. I thought we didn't. We didn't fund them. right? They didn't apply for funding this year because they went to the mass Cultural Council and got a bigger grant. So they didn't apply to to us for funding. So we haven't funded them this year.
Marie Isenburg: Can we have a presence there? Pallavi Nagesha: We can have a presence there. if this is. if that's something that we are interested in doing. definitely. if anybody has an idea and you can present it. we will try to get that. get in there. I mean. they have booths if you want us. if you think it's a good idea for us to have a booth over there. we can do that.
Marie Isenburg: Is it next meeting too late to decide on Pallavi Nagesha: that? It is. it is too late next meeting to decide on that? So we will have to kind of do this through email. If anybody has an idea and we want to just vote on it through email before then we can do that. Maryam Libdi: Mary. can you remind me of the exact date? It's in October. right? What Pallavi Nagesha: two? I'm going to say the fourth. but I may be wrong.
I don't remember. Maryam Libdi: Yes. it's on the fourth I just checked. I think it's a good idea because there's a. you know. around 15 days until the end of our cycle. So it could be a good place to market for it. But I personally can't take care of the table if we have on that day. Okay. I agree. Maybe our youth can.
Pallavi Nagesha: yeah. yeah. yeah. it is all day. but we can. We can be there. like when. when they start. and then when. when they end. For sure. last year. we did. We did have a presence there. but we funded them. so they kind of used our banner and we were. we were. We had a booth. People came up into us. to us and talk to us and learned. What we do and so on. So I am also traveling that weekend. so I won't be there to have the booth. but if our youth are both interested in doing that. I can certainly reach out to that committee and make sure we have space for that?
Maryam Libdi: Okay. perfect. Thank you. We have budget to reserve that table. or is it Pallavi Nagesha: let me ask? Let me ask. We do have money and discretionary funds to reserve a table. So I am not sure. I'm trying to find information about that. I'm not sure how much it's going to cost. But do I have a motion to spend our discretionary funds on that? If. if need Marie Isenburg: be. I'm discretionary. So I Maryam Libdi: second. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: so noreish. are you okay with us spending on the discretionary funds on that? Naresh Mysore: Yeah. sure. yeah. I may not be in town so. but yes. I approve. Pallavi Nagesha: Kevin. Are you okay with us spending some discretionary fund money on that. Kevin Goodwin: okay. I moved approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. thank you. Thank you. Maria. My Okay. Spending on that. yes. Maria. are you okay? Spending on that. yes. and I am okay as well. So I'll find out what it costs and and I will let you all know. Okay. you. Thank you for bringing that up. Marie.
anything else we need to discuss touch upon this this time around. So my action item is to update last month's meeting notes and send it around. If you can all quickly take a look and respond back to me. This time. I will ask you to hit Reply All so that it comes back to the entire council. so that it's recorded. and once that's done. I will have it posted.
Marie Isenburg: So do you have the changes you need? Then you don't need anything from me at this point. Pallavi Nagesha: Were you making the changes. Marie. or Marie Isenburg: did you I can? I can. yeah. unless you had it there already. Yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: Marie. if you can just send it to the council. So send it to the council correct. send it to the so that we all have it. and we'll just vote on it over there. and I can then post it.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. since you're going to be out of town. do we have any. like. ultra Council marketing material. banners or things to use for the multicultural fest? If have Pallavi Nagesha: banners and I can. yeah. so I have it in my garage. Two of them. I'm going to be taking a couple of them to leave it with the DPW. So if somebody wants to. or Naresh. I can leave it with you. Or Mariam. I can leave it with you.
Maryam Libdi: We will also need. like. some. you know. flyers about the grant cycle. Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. So I think the information that I send for sending emails and such. we can also create a. if one of our Youth Can. can help us create a quick flyer for that. It'll be great. So once I send that information out. use that information to make a flyer. and we can have that. Marie Isenburg: How about if we just take the. the LCC applicant. simple. right. offline. and maybe just put that on the flyer. They have a pretty comprehensive. I don't know. Pallavi Nagesha: I mean. the fly. that whole information will be too long for a flyer. We just need to see. hey. this is happening. and here's where you can go and apply. And that that's that should be enough. Maryam Libdi: you know. something with basic information and a barcode that takes you to the application. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: Yes. all right. I should have information about the for for the email. and also the information that should go on to the poster in to all of you by the end of the week. Indian and Mustafa. I don't know. Whether you will be added to the list. to the Cultural Council list. by that's that quickly. but you'll you'll have to send. hopefully. the sooner you send the information to the town clerk. the sooner that will happen. But in the meantime. if you can quickly email the Cultural Council so that I will have your just send us a hello note or something. so that I will have your and send it through your school email. so everything is public in and accounted for. So I will have that and I can send you. I can add you to any correspondence until you're added to the town list. Okay. all right.
anything else?
If there's nothing. do I have a motion to conclude? Kevin Goodwin: So moved. Pallavi Nagesha: Thanks. Kevin. any seconds. So we are ending our meeting today early 743. thank you all for attending. Naresh. Are you agreed to close the meeting? Yes. yes. I am Maria Mayu. Maria. you. Kevin. are you? Yes. and so am I? So we close the meeting and we welcome our youth liaisons. and we will meet next month. This will be the second Wednesday of next month of September. which is the 10th see you all have a lovely rest of the week. rest of the month. I'll talk to you also. Mustafa Kheir: Thank you. Thank you so much. Unknown: Thank you. Thank you.
Naresh Mysore: Yep. Here. Pallavi Nagesha: Marie Isenberg Marie Isenburg: yes Unknown: Maryam Libdi Maryam Libdi: here. Pallavi Nagesha: and Kevin. Kevin Goodwin: yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: And this is Pallavi Nagesha. I'm here. And absent are Donna Mitra. Charles Bent and Alyssa Ao. all right. so the first order of business is the July 9 meeting minutes. Have you all had a chance to look at the meeting minutes? Unknown: Yes. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: So I'm going to Kevin Goodwin: and I. and I move approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. do I have a second?
Marie Isenburg: I have I have questions about the notes. I'm not ready for approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so let's go through the questions. Marie has questions. and we will go go go over that.
Marie Isenburg: There we go. Okay. okay. first of all. I want to ask. I mean. maybe this has to go later. but we had. we wanted to know about whether whether Kelsi confirmed that the grant was paid we are or is that okay? Maybe. wait. no. that'll come up later. Excuse him. Okay. Can I change there was no coverage by the event. by way? P and I'd like to replace that by Wayland Post. And Wayland Post grantee. reception. coverage.
okay. DEP. okay. and let me see. See. okay. I thought maybe we could change counsel. Haven't heard from Melissa. I was wondering if there was a different way we could say that. Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. so we can say the youth liaison. Marie Isenburg: The youth liaison is what we haven't heard from. the youth liaison. Or. should we say the youth liaison is still working on it? Or. or we will assume the recruiting for the youth member. Or. No. that's not right. Okay. I'll just put the youth liaison there. Okay. okay. and I'd like to take the word try out of Maryam proposed that she can do some outreach efforts for that. take the word. try to and just see that she can do some outreach efforts for that. sounds good. Okay. see. all right. that's. that's all I have. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: so. Marie. are you making the corrections? Marie Isenburg: I'm writing them down. I don't know who's doing notes tonight. Unknown: The notes will be automatically generated Correct. Marie. Marie Isenburg: well. I can. I can. I can make the corrections on this and just send it back to you. Okay. I have them underlined. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. okay. so I will once. once the corrections are made. I will repost them. and we will take a vote. I would expect all of you to respond to that email and say that you are okay with it before I send it over to post it as the official July Meeting Notes. Any questions about that? No. okay. that's fine. okay. so some of the old business utility box project update. I haven't gotten in touch with Rahul. I can so there are two things that we can do right now is either just get in touch with Rahul and have him complete the painting. or re revisit it and open it up again for for the. Participants. So
let me go over one proposal at the time. One proposal is to just me to get in touch with Rahul and get him arrange for him to complete the painting. Do I have agreement on that? Marie Isenburg: Sure if you think yes. all right. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. Miriam. are you okay with that? Yes. noi. are you okay with that? Yes. Maria. you okay with that? Yes. Kevin. are you okay with that? Yes. okay. I will get in touch with him and get him to do that. The next order of things is the grant cycle discussion. The grant this year is opening on the second of September. and it will be open until the 18th of October. I believe. Let me just double check that correct. So it is open until the 18th of October. The important dates. October 9. our financial report is due. Naresh. do you have any any questions about that? Or do you need any information? Naresh Mysore: Yeah. I need Kelsi. I think. to send me the financial statement for what's available for. you know. from our budget. So I'll ping her and get that statement. because I need that as the input to the budget. Okay. Marie Isenburg: so how's this? I have a question. yeah. has the state already appropriated a $6.900 to our account? Or do we have to wait for that? Or how does that go? Are Pallavi Nagesha: you talking about last year's? But Marie Isenburg: this year is coming up. Pallavi Nagesha: we don't have Marie Isenburg: so. oh. it's on the website. We don't think that's right.
Naresh Mysore: I haven't been notified of any. yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: no. I haven't been notified either. Marie Isenburg: Oh. because all there's a long list of every LCC on on the Pallavi Nagesha: on the mass cultural website. Marie Isenburg: yeah. yeah. Oh. okay. okay. well. I saw 6900 anyway. okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: Um. I will. I will look into that. And.
Marie Isenburg: yeah. it wasn't on our LCC. on my personal. uh. information account. but it was on the general MCC site. that's what I can tell you. Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: I will. I will get a better. Yeah. I see that on the on their side. I will definitely reach out and make sure that this is what we have.
Marie Isenburg: Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: and then the publicity and signage. I have the signage up the dates we got to put the signage. Is it? Sorry. Kevin. do you have a question?
Kevin Goodwin: Who may know? Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so the signage. I got the dates for the signage. We have it. We have it for the week of October 6. So October 6 through the 13th. we will have two signage is put in. one on the Wayland. western town line. on route 20. and one near the Cochituate center fire station. So those are the two signages we'll have. We'll have them for a week. And one more thing we should do is the next couple bulletins that go out from. The town we should be on that the newsletters. So we should be on those newsletters. and I will create a write up. and I'll share it with the group. so whoever sees that. you know. the email go around for the bulletins. Just make sure that we are on it. Do uh. And the other thing is that we should also see if. if the WP Wayland press has information about the grant as well for the next couple for I know how often that paper goes out. but be there every two weeks on two weeks on Friday. Unknown: okay. so maybe starting the last this last week of August. we should Try to be in there for as well. Just make sure that Wayland post has the information about the grant as well. Maryam Libdi: As soon as we have the write up. I can share that with them. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. I will do the right. I'll create a write up and send it to you. Marie. you had you were saying something. sorry. Marie Isenburg: No. you took care of it. Thank you. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: all right. okay. anything else you want to know about the grant cycle grants before we move on. Maryam Libdi: can you say those dates again? You said September? What? Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. so the grant opens September 2. and is it the it closes. the applications open September 2. and they close. October 18.
Maryam Libdi: You want to also send it in the old school news. Unknown: yes. yeah. So whatever the write up. I'll get the write up to you by the weekend. and you can. you can share it with the school news. We can share it with Wayland press. and we can also share it with the Town bulletin.
Kevin Goodwin: Hey old school news Pallavi Nagesha: the school news letter. Kevin Goodwin: oh. okay. oh. I thought somebody said old school news Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: Now the whole school news letter. yeah. All right? And then the bulletin. road project. I know we last week. it was deferred. Do we want to talk about this today?
Marie Isenburg: I don't have anything to offer. Okay. so I have to break some All Pallavi Nagesha: right. no worries. no worries. Okay. we don't have Alyssa to do news. Up youth update. so we will skip that and on to new business. which is the youth members. Miriam. do you have information about that? Maryam Libdi: Yes. we have two interested youth members. They were sent link by the town clerk. They're actually watching us right now. but it seems like the Zoom link they were sent was a watch only and not as panelists. Yeah. there's something we can do right now. or they can just. Unknown: I only have Iniyan Gandhi watching. Is that? Is that one of the youth members. Maryam Libdi: Iniyan Gandhi and Mustafa. are both watching. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. I only see Iniyan. I can definitely allow him to. I'm going to promote him to panelists so he can. Maryam Libdi: okay. let me see if I can double check that most of us using
Marie Isenburg: good job. How did you do that?
Pallavi Nagesha: So the host can and promote people to panelists and Marie Isenburg: yeah. so I don't think how she found Oh. okay. Pallavi Nagesha: how Miriam found them? Yeah. she will have to talk about that.
Okay. there he is. okay. Maryam Libdi: okay. most of us. I think.
Pallavi Nagesha: yes. So I found him. I promoted him to a panelist. so they're both here. And welcome Iniyan and Mustafa. And if you want to turn on your microphones or videos and say hello. love to see you. Mustafa Kheir: Hi. How are you? Unknown: Hi. I am good. Iniyan Gandhi: How are we going? Pallavi Nagesha: Hi. Iniyan. so do you have questions for us? I mean. first of all. I would like you to introduce yourself to our panel.
Mustafa Kheir: Hi. my name is Mustafa here. I'm gonna be a junior in the fall. Oh. I'm interested in joining this board because. you know. I just want to have a say and where. where the grants and where the grants go in our community. and to make that difference. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. Iniyan Gandhi: Hi. I'm Joe. I'm Iniyan. I'm go to Wayland High School. Um.I'm also just interested in. like. what goes on in this town and stuff. So. yeah. so I joined. Pallavi Nagesha: okay. and Iniyan. What grade are you going to be going into? Iniyan Gandhi: I'm going to 11th grade. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. so both of you. so you're a junior and you're a sophomore. Okay. perfect. Okay. so welcome. Mustafa Kheir: sorry. no. I'm also going to be we're both going to be juniors. sorry. Pallavi Nagesha: Oh. okay. all right. okay. So do you have any questions for us at this time?
Iniyan Gandhi: Nothing yet. Mustafa Kheir: Yes. Iniyan Gandhi: I guess just keep going with the procedure and all Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. Sounds good. Sounds good. So what we need you to do is send a letter to the town clerk. an email to the town clerk. expressing your interest in joining as youth liaisons on the Cultural Council. and we'll take it from there. We meet once a month on Wednesdays at 7pm It's usually the second Wednesday of every month at 7pm and most of what we do is and as you saw. if you were listening to our our meeting is kind of go over what's going. what is happening and what is left to do. A lot of our work is around the grants. but not everything. We do other things too. And you just heard us talk about the utility box painting project. That's something that we took on. And we do this like we we have our discretionary fund that we can spend on one things around the town. And occasionally we do. we do projects like this to to spend that discretionary fund. The grant process will start from September. from next month. we will not so October. November will be the first month we will start to talk about the grants. and start to vote around the grants. And we should be finished by December. because the results are due the first week of January. So we try to finish everything as early as possible. The your opinions. and of course. your inputs will be greatly appreciated. The biggest thing that we are looking for from our youth liaison is our connection to the school system. especially of any programs that you have up and coming that we can kind of get into as the Cultural Council. and also to let people know that the grant program is available open and to bring in participation from our youth into this as you know. you know. groups like the robotics group have been regularly applying to to us. and we love to see that. We'd love to see them succeed and and any other such groups or individuals who are interested in in applying for grants to do anything that is of use to our community. right? Usually. people see the Cultural Council and think of arts. But culture is not just arts. It is community. And a lot of things are under the purview of community. right? Whether it be STEM related. arts. related. politics. whatever have you. So. Uh. encourage people to look at that if they're if they have an idea and are confused and don't know that this can whether this is this comes under cultural grants. they can reach out to us. We're happy to chat with them and give them any advice that they need. So that is what we're looking at from our youth liaisons. And welcome. We're really happy to have you. Alyssa was a great partner. but she's off to college. and this is this is going to be great. So thank you. Thank you for volunteering. Mustafa Kheir: Thank you Iniyan Gandhi: for the opportunity. pall: Awesome. Okay. anything else? I didn't have any other agenda items. Do we have anything else we need to discuss at this at this time. Marie Isenburg: wondering when? When do we usually do the members update on the Mass website. we have a bunch. like three. I think we have about four members or something on that site. Maybe. Pallavi Nagesha: yeah. we should. So if you have signed in. it should automatically show you as as a member. but I will go take a look and make sure that that all the mem all the correct members are listed on that website.
And I also reached out through Jailyn to the other two members who we haven't seen and at the meetings in a while. Charles Bent and Donna Mitra. And they did get in touch with Charles who who informed them that he hasn't been getting meeting invites. and I hope they've corrected that and they gave me a phone number. I did call Charles at the beginning of the call today. just to let him know that we are meeting and it's on. I hope he does get in touch with me and we can figure that out. We haven't heard back from Donna. so I'll continue to reach out and see what's going on with them. Unknown: Do you think it would be beneficial for Mustafa and Iniyan to take the LCC member training
Pallavi Nagesha: so once they write their letter of intent to the town clerk and they get inducted. they will be sent all the necessary links to kind of join and all the training material as well. So once they sign on to the mass Cultural Council website. as as members of our Cultural Council. that page will be available to them to take the training and all of those. You know. I'm sure. Miriam. you remember the emails you got to take the training in. So they will get those as well once they sign up. but they need to submit that letter of intent and officially get on. Yeah.
Unknown: I did we talk about
Marie Isenburg: the box that was painted? I think I deleted his name. Was it from Rick last time. and I have it on the other file. Did we? Did we confirm that that was paid out? Or can we. or I thought we would get in touch with him and let him know when the process was completed. Pallavi Nagesha: So which. which Marie Isenburg: was to check with Kelsi about the payment
Pallavi Nagesha: to to
Marie Isenburg: wasn't to be coming up with the wrong file. Was it Rick? Somebody will remember? Okay. yeah. yeah. yes. yeah. So has that been confirmed that that payment has gone out?
Pallavi Nagesha: I haven't confirmed that the payment has gone out. but we did inform Kelsi that this is we've approved and then they can pay. Marie Isenburg: Did you have to submit the minutes with that. or was it just done? Pallavi Nagesha: No. she just wanted us to. I can. I can reach out and make sure that that the payment has gone out. I.
Any other discussions we have. In
that case. our next meeting is going to be on the 10th of September. at 730 and at that time. I want to see how we can by the 10th of September. I don't believe we'll have a good
numbers of applicants. It's too early. but we can start to think about how to encourage people to apply. Definitely. I think we have the idea of send sending information on the school newsletters. the town newsletters. and put it also in the Wayland post. So we will have some avenues of doing this. also Mustafa or any and if you. either of you are interested in kind of working with our social media. let me know. I can. I can add you to those accounts. And we usually post there. Mustafa Kheir: I can. I can do. I'm interested in that perfect. Pallavi Nagesha: perfect so once I'll get into I'll reach out to you. Mustafa. and we can talk about that. It's just a matter of adding you to those accounts. And so we have an Instagram account and we have a Facebook account. So Marie Isenburg: one more question. of course. Go ahead. Okay. are we doing anything for the Wayland arts or culture thing that's happening in October. Pallavi Nagesha: The Yeah. yeah. we are not Marie Isenburg: okay. Okay.
Maryam Libdi: Are we part of that? Is that the reason
Pallavi Nagesha: I am not sure we funded them this year. I thought we didn't. We didn't fund them. right? They didn't apply for funding this year because they went to the mass Cultural Council and got a bigger grant. So they didn't apply to to us for funding. So we haven't funded them this year.
Marie Isenburg: Can we have a presence there? Pallavi Nagesha: We can have a presence there. if this is. if that's something that we are interested in doing. definitely. if anybody has an idea and you can present it. we will try to get that. get in there. I mean. they have booths if you want us. if you think it's a good idea for us to have a booth over there. we can do that.
Marie Isenburg: Is it next meeting too late to decide on Pallavi Nagesha: that? It is. it is too late next meeting to decide on that? So we will have to kind of do this through email. If anybody has an idea and we want to just vote on it through email before then we can do that. Maryam Libdi: Mary. can you remind me of the exact date? It's in October. right? What Pallavi Nagesha: two? I'm going to say the fourth. but I may be wrong.
I don't remember. Maryam Libdi: Yes. it's on the fourth I just checked. I think it's a good idea because there's a. you know. around 15 days until the end of our cycle. So it could be a good place to market for it. But I personally can't take care of the table if we have on that day. Okay. I agree. Maybe our youth can.
Pallavi Nagesha: yeah. yeah. yeah. it is all day. but we can. We can be there. like when. when they start. and then when. when they end. For sure. last year. we did. We did have a presence there. but we funded them. so they kind of used our banner and we were. we were. We had a booth. People came up into us. to us and talk to us and learned. What we do and so on. So I am also traveling that weekend. so I won't be there to have the booth. but if our youth are both interested in doing that. I can certainly reach out to that committee and make sure we have space for that?
Maryam Libdi: Okay. perfect. Thank you. We have budget to reserve that table. or is it Pallavi Nagesha: let me ask? Let me ask. We do have money and discretionary funds to reserve a table. So I am not sure. I'm trying to find information about that. I'm not sure how much it's going to cost. But do I have a motion to spend our discretionary funds on that? If. if need Marie Isenburg: be. I'm discretionary. So I Maryam Libdi: second. Okay. Pallavi Nagesha: so noreish. are you okay with us spending on the discretionary funds on that? Naresh Mysore: Yeah. sure. yeah. I may not be in town so. but yes. I approve. Pallavi Nagesha: Kevin. Are you okay with us spending some discretionary fund money on that. Kevin Goodwin: okay. I moved approval. Pallavi Nagesha: Okay. thank you. Thank you. Maria. My Okay. Spending on that. yes. Maria. are you okay? Spending on that. yes. and I am okay as well. So I'll find out what it costs and and I will let you all know. Okay. you. Thank you for bringing that up. Marie.
anything else we need to discuss touch upon this this time around. So my action item is to update last month's meeting notes and send it around. If you can all quickly take a look and respond back to me. This time. I will ask you to hit Reply All so that it comes back to the entire council. so that it's recorded. and once that's done. I will have it posted.
Marie Isenburg: So do you have the changes you need? Then you don't need anything from me at this point. Pallavi Nagesha: Were you making the changes. Marie. or Marie Isenburg: did you I can? I can. yeah. unless you had it there already. Yeah. Pallavi Nagesha: Marie. if you can just send it to the council. So send it to the council correct. send it to the so that we all have it. and we'll just vote on it over there. and I can then post it.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. since you're going to be out of town. do we have any. like. ultra Council marketing material. banners or things to use for the multicultural fest? If have Pallavi Nagesha: banners and I can. yeah. so I have it in my garage. Two of them. I'm going to be taking a couple of them to leave it with the DPW. So if somebody wants to. or Naresh. I can leave it with you. Or Mariam. I can leave it with you.
Maryam Libdi: We will also need. like. some. you know. flyers about the grant cycle. Pallavi Nagesha: Yeah. So I think the information that I send for sending emails and such. we can also create a. if one of our Youth Can. can help us create a quick flyer for that. It'll be great. So once I send that information out. use that information to make a flyer. and we can have that. Marie Isenburg: How about if we just take the. the LCC applicant. simple. right. offline. and maybe just put that on the flyer. They have a pretty comprehensive. I don't know. Pallavi Nagesha: I mean. the fly. that whole information will be too long for a flyer. We just need to see. hey. this is happening. and here's where you can go and apply. And that that's that should be enough. Maryam Libdi: you know. something with basic information and a barcode that takes you to the application. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Pallavi Nagesha: Yes. all right. I should have information about the for for the email. and also the information that should go on to the poster in to all of you by the end of the week. Indian and Mustafa. I don't know. Whether you will be added to the list. to the Cultural Council list. by that's that quickly. but you'll you'll have to send. hopefully. the sooner you send the information to the town clerk. the sooner that will happen. But in the meantime. if you can quickly email the Cultural Council so that I will have your just send us a hello note or something. so that I will have your and send it through your school email. so everything is public in and accounted for. So I will have that and I can send you. I can add you to any correspondence until you're added to the town list. Okay. all right.
anything else?
If there's nothing. do I have a motion to conclude? Kevin Goodwin: So moved. Pallavi Nagesha: Thanks. Kevin. any seconds. So we are ending our meeting today early 743. thank you all for attending. Naresh. Are you agreed to close the meeting? Yes. yes. I am Maria Mayu. Maria. you. Kevin. are you? Yes. and so am I? So we close the meeting and we welcome our youth liaisons. and we will meet next month. This will be the second Wednesday of next month of September. which is the 10th see you all have a lovely rest of the week. rest of the month. I'll talk to you also. Mustafa Kheir: Thank you. Thank you so much. Unknown: Thank you. Thank you.
Design Review Board
William Sterling: Three, and
this is the Design Review Board,
aka Design Review advisory board, and we are meeting tonight on soon only, but it's probably being recorded. It should be recorded, so anyone who wants to will be able to check it out later as well the I will ask if there's any public comment, raise your hand if anyone wants to say something other than the topic that we're covering tonight, which is the application of Saint mercurious and Saint Mina Coptic Orthodox Church, plus later on, around 730 we're going to review the design guidelines and then meeting minutes and then trying to adjourn by eight or so.
I see no raised hands. Somebody has their hand raised. That was me. I think I clicked on my raised hand. No. Robin Borgestedt: Kent Walker has his hand raised very top. William Sterling: Okay, I see it. Thank you. Unknown: Anytime, hello, talk, William Sterling: Kent, you're now on if you'd like to raise a point, yeah, Unknown: yeah. I've looked at the design materials that were submitted to the Tom, and I am astonished that they are so so little in keeping with the location on rice road. Robin Borgestedt: So Mr. Walker, if these comments are about the application that we're reviewing tonight, those public comments should come after we discuss the application. Unknown: This is my head. I thought you wanted to know who. Yeah, this is for Robin Borgestedt: public comments about things that are not on the agenda. Specifically, I Unknown: beg your pardon. William Sterling: Okay, we welcome your comments when we get on that topic,
Robin Borgestedt: can the folks who are here to speak about the application from the architect raise their hand so that we know who we need to pull into the meeting? Yeah?
There we go.
William Sterling: So I think we should move on, then to the two who just raised their hand to talk about the project, since we've already reviewed it last week when you were unable to attend, and I will allow both of you at the same time, I guess, and you all to decide which of You wants to speak slanden or lost the name Courtney. Unknown: Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, great, thank you. I think Courtney and I can speak when, when we need to. William Sterling: Oh, good. Well, we usually ask the applicant to write a summary, or speak a summary of what it is you would like us to know about your project, and then we'll respond.
Unknown: Would you like me to go now? Yeah, now, it'd be great. Okay, great. So thank you for the opportunity to present the project. We appreciate it the goal with the design of this project and this campus is basically to reflect the traditions of the Coptic Church. And we had a meeting a with the butters the other night, and I think there was much surprise to the design of the building, and it was not a traditional Catholic Church. This has very definite Coptic Orthodox features, and we are trying to be sensitive to the surrounding neighborhood in the landscape. As you know, the building complex sits in the hillside where there is a great difference of about 30 feet from the lower portion to the. Upper portion up by Turkey Hill. So it's organized into three separate buildings. There is the church building. There is a building with a recreational use as well as classrooms. And at the end of that building there is additional classrooms and some senior housing. The third building is the the church building the diocese, and they are planned to be phased in design and construction. The church itself is a is the focal point of the design. It will be, it is planned to be the first building to be designed and constructed. The existing church will remain as is it is, until the end of the second phase, which is the Building B, which you would see on the plans. And then the the third building would would come considerably, much later. So throughout the design process, we've worked with the topography, and we've done this for a few reasons. We wanted it to sit within the hillside so that it didn't present itself in a very obvious way to the surrounding neighbors up behind in Turkey Hill. It it does sit sort of in the center, and it is around a center Piazza, which is sort of a courtyard, and that is done so that there are gatherings that you know would happen in there, and would minimize the noise you know, which would presumably be more prevalent on the on the outside. So I would say that we are trying to stick with and meet, you know, all the design guidelines set forth by the town of Wayland and and so I think that's really a brief description of of what the complex is. Can I William Sterling: interrupt you for a second at this stopping point? Selanda, I need your your full name, and I presume you're with DSK. Is that Unknown: right? Yes, it's Sean, S, S, H, A, U, N, Landon,
William Sterling: okay, I got it. Unknown: Thank you. Sorry it didn't show up that way in the header. William Sterling: Is Courtney also going to speak? Or do we move on? Unknown: I am here in order to answer any questions. My name is Courtney Borelli, also from DSK architects, good.
William Sterling: So I guess now then I would, I'd pass the baton around to our board members. Robin, would you like to ask any questions or discuss any of the things that you want them to address.
I think you're on mute.
Robin Borgestedt: Okay, sorry. One of the things we discussed last week is you commented today that you're trying to work with the topography in the area, but it seems like you're doing the opposite with some retaining walls and really pushing into that hill. And it seems like you're more fighting the topography than working with it. So that was a concern. We really don't know if you're working with the design guidelines, because this is really, there isn't enough detail in this plan to let us know whether that is or isn't true, and is just an awful lot of pavement here as well. So those were some of the concerns we had this. The massing of these buildings is just, I think, of concern, considering what was on the site before. So I think it's probably why you had some pushback from the butters. But I. Right, some concerns with the use of the space and the fact that we have very little detail to go on to know whether you're meeting the design guidelines in terms of the materials and the look and feel of the building and some of the other design guidelines that exist in Tom anything for you.
Tatiana Person: I'm wondering if, in addition to those plans that were presented, you have any 3d view for us to see how it's overall looks, how it sits on the hill, maybe we misread the plan, and it's a bit different.
William Sterling: I'm sorry, Tanya, I didn't hear all of that. Tatiana Person: I was wondering if they could present any 3d view representing the design.
William Sterling: I think that's a good question. I
Unknown: uh, I guess we could present that. I'm not sure how to to actually get that up on the screen. William Sterling: You have the drawings you submitted. Robin could actually post all those, if you Robin Borgestedt: want. Yeah, there isn't really the, well, we have the plans. I'm just, my point is that I think they're they don't really give us details in terms of finishes and materials and things like that, which is what we're supposed to be reviewing. So but I would, Mr. Landon, I'm sure you can share your screen and show the plans if you have them that you want to show Unknown: we do have an axon. It's right on the second page. That helps a little bit. It is a little bit difficult, obviously, with the amount of topography here to see, but page two does have an axon view.
They said we don't have it. Tatiana Person: Robin, maybe I could pull it on the screen. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, I can share my screen if you guys can't
Unknown: unmute it. It.
Robin Borgestedt: So is this the plan you're talking about? Yes, Tatiana Person: so maybe on this view, you could explain to us how you work with topography and how those buildings work together.
William Sterling: I actually have a few questions that might help launch the answers you're looking for. There are, there are things that we that I would ask, even without all the detailed information. And by the way, I there may be a lot of pushback from abutters about seeing an Egyptian style Coptic church, but I think that as applicants are within their rights, given the state Dover law that was passed that a project can't be rejected because of the style of the building you're putting up there. So that that is basically it's not a valid criticism from a legal point of view. You may hate it, but that's completely legal, so that will not be part of our discussion. Except I would say I've been to Egypt, and I've been to see Coptic churches, and I think it's actually very similar to St Mark's and Alexandria. I think it's consistent with the style of the traditions of that of that religion. And I think it's very interesting. I think I also think, though, that rather than being strictly reproduct, reproduction of a traditional design that goes back 1000 years that you may want to talk to the owners The property about, first of all, there's this building design code that is now strictly imposing solar panels on the roof and other environmental you know, I should say sustainable methods of design. The only one that comes to me on this is that it may be an interesting kind of variation of that style to push it in the direction of a passive solar so that the size of the walls that face south could be more glass than the sides that face. East North could be less from a sustainable point of view without really sacrificing the traditional appearance of the building. And I would take that one step further and say that our mission in Wayland is to be a green community, and we would therefore encourage a net zero building. And this is an opportunity for you and your client, where you have a long term investment, they could do a cost benefit analysis and determine the benefit of doing a net zero energy building, whether it's solar or a combination of solar and geothermal, or what have you to to achieve that goal. And I think that the one that I feel is easy is free energy is passive solar, where you can face the glass of the buildings to the south, shade them with solar shades. And then I'm thinking more of the your diocese Center and the school, that if you orient them to the south and face glass with solar shading, you get a lot of free energy in the winter that has really no extra cost, because you're just building the building envelope in it with glass in different places, and less glass on the north face, where you have nothing but heat loss through glass on the north side of the building. So that's something I would hope that. And if you're looking for a project that will get a lot of positive attention and feedback, I think that going net zero and showing how you can do that and still have a traditional looking building would make the magazines, if that's something you're looking for. The other questions, I think, that we will not have tonight, I agree with Robin that we don't have detailed information yet, but one of the big questions, I'm sure the neighbors will be concerned about as well, will be the lighting of the parking lot and the how you intend to achieve a dark sky. And I would just say off the top of my head that whatever part you do have requirements for making that parking safe, and the requirements for lighting levels of five foot candles and so forth, you will be required to have lights for lighting up that parking lot. But a way to make it less intrusive on the neighbors, I think that I agree with you. If you settle this site into the hill, then the neighbors are less likely to be bothered by the lights. But I think even better, would be going with low profile lights. That means they're only 12, or at the most, 14 feet off the ground. It means you'll have to have more of the poles, but also well shielded lights that are not visible from any public way. And if you're going to achieve that, I think, I think that the zoning board will probably be very happy about the the only other question I had was, you Yes, the I'm trying to read my notes while talking. I'm sorry,
yeah, the only other thing was that you don't need to just meet the minimum code standard. It would be ideal if you'd go beyond the minimum code standard, standard for building envelopes and solar energy and so forth. That's if you want to respond to that and answer questions about that. I would appreciate that tonight. Otherwise, you know, we'll open it up to other people who are watching. Unknown: So to to speak about the the solar we we have basically covered all of the flat roofs of the Diocese building and the north side of the building B with with panels there, and we are basically just in. In the site planning approval process, and have not gotten to the schematic design phase of the buildings just yet. And so the the materials, or the materiality of the buildings has not been designed yet. We have forms for each of the buildings, and the size of the building was basically designed to provide adequate space for the number of parishioners that they have. And so that really kind of sets the the parameters for the church building in terms of the lighting. We are We are well aware of dark night, and we have done a lighting study, as well as a an acoustic study, you know, for the building complex. And so we're looking into all of those and how best to serve the project and the neighborhood around it. So I guess I really just want to make it known that we're very early on in the design phase of the buildings and all of these things you know, will be taken into consideration and best practice, like I said, for the church And for the neighborhood will be incorporated,
Tatiana Person: also additional comment regarding the site planning, if you are still in the earlier stage, maybe you should consider to register redistribute the parking. It's kind of unfortunate that as you enter into this complex, the first thing that you face, it's quite significant amount of parking. Unknown: We have a a code, which, I guess is it's one parking space per three people. And so we have provided the number of spaces that meet the occupant load for the building complex. And so that's what, that's, what's driving the parking around the buildings. Tatiana Person: I understood the number of parking, but just to consider it, to redistribute it differently. So it's the parking, it's won't be the first thing, because you enter the bill as a side. Basically you see, you do see this charge, but basically your see the parking lots right away. Maybe it should be somehow taken to the back, or Unknown: we have been very push the parking towards the back of the site, really, because that's the Turkey Hill side of the site which is closest to residential neighbors. So we're really trying to orient the parking towards rice road on that side, versus having those parking spaces up towards residential neighbors.
Tatiana Person: Okay, maybe in this case, just green barrier between the parking and the buildings would help as well. Unknown: We have also done a landscape plan. So that landscape plan encompasses the entire site, and so there is a combination of trees and shrubberies being used to essentially replace the trees that are being removed. And so, as you would imagine, there is, there's quite an extensive amount of landscape going in there, and I think that that's going to really soften the parking space as well as the buildings, the trees along rice road will remain as they're in the wetland buffer so. So landscape is, is, is being thought about quite extensively.
Robin Borgestedt: I think at our last meeting, when we discussed the application, I don't remember if it was Bill or Tanya, but somebody had suggested that instead of two large parking lots, that you have one two story parking lot, so that there was less impermeable space. I uh, just a thought noted. Thank you, Bill,
do you want to open it up for public comment? William Sterling: Yeah, I don't have any. Other questions at this point, so I think I will ask anyone who wants to raise their hand. I will try and there's one I'm just going to order. I have them there. That's Oh, sorry. Go ahead again. I thought you were muted. Robin Borgestedt: He is muted. JL, Hello, yeah, yes, can you state your name and your street address for the record? Unknown: Yes, it's Joseph shared her 147 rice road. Okay, I guess the question I have, and maybe this isn't the right forum for that, I'm just kind of surprised that I heard about this for the first time, like recently, is this, are they digging into conservation land for those parking lots?
William Sterling: Bill, do you want to let the architect answer that? Listen. JJ, here is your reminder,
Robin Borgestedt: Mr. Landon or miss Borelli, do you want to address that question? Unknown: JJ, sure. The entire property is owned by the church, and none of it is conservation property. So you're putting all three of those buildings in that small property. Then it is five and a half acres.
William Sterling: You answer that let me, Susan, I will let you ask a question. Unknown: Thank you. My name is Susan Todd, and I'm a resident of Turkey Hill village, and I was reading the general guidelines for the town, the design guidelines, general guideline number one says newly constructed buildings should not overwhelm or disregard the adjacent context with regard to building, location, Scale, bulk, massing, material, color, texture and fenestration. And my question is whether or not the Dover amendment allows for a church to be exempt from all the general guidelines of the town, which clearly would be severely challenged by a building project of this scale and scope. Can you help me understand, William Sterling: I know a little bit about the Dover amendment that basically is based on exactly this kind of a question in the town of Dover, I believe it was a Catholic church tried to get a zoning approval, and town of Dover turned them down. So they appealed it to the state. The state overturned that, and then they passed a law saying no one can ever do this again. So yes, this is another case where Dover amendment is designed exactly for this condition. You can't just say it's too big for my neighborhood.
Can I go into another question? Nicole, I'm just calling the order they show up here.
Unknown: Can you hear me?
Robin Borgestedt: Fairly?
Unknown: Yes, Hi, I'm Nicole Goodwin. I live at one Turkey Hill. So I'm located, I literally just moved in to this location, and I believe my property is going to be directly affected by this expansion. So I'd love more information on what I am going to see and lose in my backyard, because I'm right. Is there going to be information provided in terms of tree line and sight line for me being in that location?
William Sterling: Let me interject first before the architect answers that. I think I would encourage them, when they get to that stage of the design, to improve on this isometric drawing that they've done with actual perspective renderings, basically overlays of photographs of the various views that people driving on rice road and in the. Neighborhood will see. I think that's going to be very important for everyone in the town to get perspective views from the public ways. Now I let the architect answer in any way they feel they should. Unknown: Mr. Sterling, I think you're you're absolutely correct. The fact that we find the building in Revit and we do have sitting in the site, gives us the opportunity to be able to look at and gage the amount of coverage that would be between in a butters property in the church. The plan for for the trees, around the parking and around the perimeter of the of the site, our plan to to stay there, to remain and provide that Piper. And you know, as you you know, we are in the very beginning stages of this design, and we can continue to look at that further if it seems like we are, you know, coming across as offensive to anybody. So I guess that's our response. Yeah. I would, I would greatly appreciate that. That'd be really thoughtful, knowing that, I mean, I know this area is considered chosen for its sort of nature and its peace and quiet, and that is why I moved here. And I, you know, I also appreciate your ability to worship. And I just, I would, I would appreciate that being thoughtful in terms of how you guys, I already am aware of the noise of the children from the church. So if that could be heavily considered, since I am, like, literally right behind the property, I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Robin Borgestedt: I would point out that in the plans that were submitted with the application, there are some elevations from different sides. It's not always clear what you know where there'll be trees blocking your view from that elevation, but you should review those. And I think I would remind people that they might want to attend the at least go on to the Zoom link for the October 15 Planning Board meeting where this will be discussed much more in detail. Unknown: Definitely, definitely. Thank you, William Sterling: noi, I would encourage the Kent Walker to speak. He had plugged in earlier and talked before, Aunt Walker Unknown: computer, his wife, Helene Feinberg Walker and we are at 13 Brandywine in Turkey Hill village. And I have to first say something positive, which is, I enjoy the noise of the children playing. It's happy noise, and I'm glad that that's provided for them. What I'm interested in asking now is if there's been an impact study on a scenic highway, and I don't know that Dover was having a church built on the scenic highway and in a conservation area. And I don't know if some exemptions can be made for that. That's one thing is our scenic Highway, which will have a very large a building, three large buildings. They may be very beautiful buildings, but nonetheless, there are three very large buildings with Spire, two spires and a dome. And the other part of that, aside from the scenic highway, is the there's a lovely buffer of many mature trees right along the road between Turkey Hill on Turkey Hill Road. The church side has wonderful mature trees. Um, a very lovely buffer zone there. So from where I live, I don't see the church. The buffer of the trees is beautiful. Plus they're wonderful mature trees, and my understanding is that they'll be taken down about 450 mature trees, replaced with baby trees and shrubs and parking and impermeable surfaces. And this is, I mean, we came here for the conservation land. It's gorgeous, that's what brought us, and it's peaceful and quiet. You see Fox, you see Turkey, SWAT turkeys. Anyway, I'm hoping that a lot of thought will be given to the nature of the area, the nature of the area, and the nature of the area, and how that. That will be disrupted. Thank you. William Sterling: Thank you. I missed your name, your first name, Helene, Unknown: he L, E, N, E. William Sterling: Thank you for giving your information. Let me go on then to the next one on this. This, this, Barbara,
Unknown: Hello, yes, can hear you. Barbara,
to me whether the planning board has already approved this or what? William Sterling: What is your last name? Barbara? Oh, Unknown: no, no. I live on 1201. Magnolia drive. William Sterling: Thank you. Unknown: So my question? Well, I have a couple questions. One, has the planning board approved this? Robin Borgestedt: It hasn't even come before the planning board yet. Unknown: Okay, and the design is not detailed yet. When is it anticipated that construction would begin after approval. If there is approval, the William Sterling: architect would have to answer that. I don't know if their schedule is like Unknown: the schedule right now would be towards the end of 2027
Okay, so the future sessions with the planning board and the zoning board are all preliminary to approval. Is that? William Sterling: Yes, that's right. Unknown: Thank you. Okay, William Sterling: thank you for joining in. Beth Raynor is next.
Hello. Unknown: I'm Beth Raynor, or Elizabeth Raynor. I'm at eight, Christina in Turkey Hill. And I also had a number of questions, as Healey raised because the drawings would indicate that although the architect mentioned trees being planted, it really looks as if the asphalt will go right to the property line. So from all the views that we can see, they'll either be parking or there will be a fire road, also asphalt on the perimeter, and there doesn't even appear to be any space to replace the 450 trees that will be removed. I would like to add that I don't believe that any of the, at least any of the Turkey Hill village residents that I have talked to have any issue with the nature of the church design, as much as scope, scale and removal of the natural resources on the property and replacement of that with impermeable surfaces. So I just wish to say that, and I did want to say that I am a little confused, because I know the Dover amendment does protect the, you know, religious communities from building spaces where they it's important for them to worship. However, I see this project as having multiple uses and one includes religious worship, their church. One includes, so, you know, a church complex, I would say, and then once, an athletic complex. So that includes a soccer field, as I understand it, that although it wasn't seen on all the drawings, that there would be a soccer field, there would be interior basketball courts and such. So I consider that sort of a separate thing from worship. And then the third being the housing, which is, you know, a 25 apartment complex. So I see this as not a single building or even a group of buildings for worship, but really a much larger scope, and I think this is the problem. I certainly know that that I'm experiencing and trying to understand, and also if the if the architect could speak, given the extremely large scale of this, as to how long they perceive the anticipate, the project, the construction to go on, how many years? Because it would seem that many, many years would would be required to do this. So thank you for listening. William Sterling: Those are great questions, I think that the Arctic may be able to answer what. The phasing. You answered what phase one might be, but you didn't answer what two and three, or a and b and c you call them. So do you have an answer to that? Yes. Unknown: So the phasing is set up that building a, which is the church. We're trying to get into the design of the church before the end of the year, and that will take, basically, to, I believe, the end of August next year, to get through the building B, which is the recreational building with classrooms in it. There has been some discussion about the time in which that is is goes into design, and we haven't quite finalized that, but I think the presumption is anywhere from three to five years. And the Building C, which is the diocese building, is considerably, much longer than that. After building B,
William Sterling: 1015, years is there's no guess. Unknown: I would say you're not far off. Robin Borgestedt: And do you have any idea? I think what they're asking is how long the actual construction will take, if you're starting in 2027 How long do you expect construction to go on? Unknown: We've estimated the construction time to be about 18 months for the church and similar for the building date.
William Sterling: That sounds all right. And I don't think
that our committee can answer the questions, the legal questions about I can take a guess, but I'm not a lawyer, so I don't think we can answer that. I think that really will come down to the legal staff for the applicant to explain and defend. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, yeah. I think you'll hear more about that in the planning board meetings where that's more of an issue, because the design review board doesn't we don't approve or deny anything. All we do is evaluate and advise. So Dover is not really so much of a concern for us. It's really a planning board issue. William Sterling: Yeah, let me go to the next raised hand. Meyer Dana,
Unknown: hello, hello. Can you hear me? Yes. I just had a few questions Robin Borgestedt: name and address, first, oh, nine. Christina Unknown: in Turkey Hill village. William Sterling: I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. Unknown: Nine Christina, okay, thank you. The plan that you actually put up on the screen a while ago shows the main entrance. What it doesn't show is, is that the only access point no onto the property.
I mean, right now they use a driveway that comes in off of Turkey Hill Road, William Sterling: as they show they showed two driveways, both off rice road, Unknown: the drive from Turkey Hill Road is being removed. Ah, there's William Sterling: a curve on rice road. On Unknown: the other question I had is, I It's a it seems a bit ingenuous that the architect would say what we're trying to do is recess the buildings into the hill to minimize their visibility to the neighborhood primarily, and certainly it's going to be Turkey Hill village. When the brief thing I saw about this, and I haven't had a chance to really look at prints is that the hill is 30 feet high and the church is going to be 90 feet high. Thank you. I mean, is that a correct statement? That is a correct statement The how is that burying it in the back the side of the hill. Well, we're not building it on top of the hill. You know, we're trying to for the for the folks in Turkey Hill. We're trying to give them relief in the form of the elevation change as well as the. The existing trees that are around the perimeter, and so that greatly reduces the overall height of what is being presented to them in in the way of the church elevation.
I think that's, I don't mean to be rude, but that's a self serving comment. It's going to stick up 60 feet above the top of the hill, yes, which is considerably more than, probably more than the trees that are there now, which apparently you're going to cut most of them down, not around the perimeter. William Sterling: I think it would help this discussion next time we meet to have the architect draw the buffer zone, break it out separately, so that the butters get a better picture of how much buffer there is, how many trees are in the buffer zones. Unknown: One other question, and I'm not I'm not familiar with the Dover amendment enough to and I'm not sure if this is the only place to go talk about it. I guess my impression is the DOVER amendment allows a church to build a church? William Sterling: No, it's not just a church. It's any nonprofit. It's opened up much wider than people seem to think, Unknown: and that includes schooling, housing, and then office building could be
there's no office building. You know, in this space, I assume that's what the diocese center is, or what the front building on rice road. That's a that's actually the main space is to be used for gathering, sort of a function hall.
I see, I I just, I kid, I can't get over the mass of this project in relation to the location. I think it's, it's takes away from the whole ambience of why people are living in this area. But so be it, it's nothing more I can say.
William Sterling: Thank you. Ken brush has raised his hand,
is Ken still on? I think it should
Robin Borgestedt: be, I guess not. Well, he's muted. Mr. Brass, you're muted. Can you unmute yourself? Okay. Can you hear me now? Now we can. Unknown: Yes. Hey, I live at five. Brandy one. I like the fact that this includes housing, because I think there's a critical need for more housing. My two questions, though are to reduce the scope of this project, is there a possibility to retrofit the existing church building to not serve as not to replace the church, but perhaps to reduce the need for, I don't know, maybe building three. And my second question involves the environmental impact of removing 400 trees on the topography, particularly with regards to rain, snow, ice melt, that change of, as I said, topography, how is, what's the impact of that? Is that been looked into less we have to deal with flooding, center, basement. Thank you. William Sterling: Thank you for asking those again. Robin Borgestedt: My response would be that you should participate in the planning board meetings and any Conservation Commission meetings and other meetings that will come up later on in this process, starting with planning board on October 15, that's really outside the purview of design review. I think. Is that true? William Sterling: Bill, yeah, I think that's true. Now we had someone race again. I'll go back to
Robin Borgestedt: Jay, Mr. Sheridan, yeah,
William Sterling: if you would like to ask,
Unknown: Hey, can you hear me? I'm sorry. I'll lower my hand. I actually did that. I apologize. Robin Borgestedt: No problem. Is there anybody else?
William Sterling: I didn't see any others. Robin Borgestedt: That's it. Anybody else for public comment? Last call.
Mr. Brush, did you have something else to say? Or you just still have your hand up?
Unknown: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Robin Borgestedt: that's okay. Just wanted to make sure, yep.
William Sterling: So is there any closing statement that the applicant would like to make before we move on to another item on our agenda?
Unknown: Yeah, I just, I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity to present this and allow us to hear the comments from from the crowd. The building, I just want to say, is basically been carefully designed to balance the tradition and function, you know, of the community. And you know, I know that there's been a lot of talk about, you know, the the size and massing of the building, but we, we are doing our best to break them down into, you know, more, you know, three buildings, so that it's not just a, you know, too large or, you know, one large building. And so we're doing, you know, everything that we we can to to make the building function as well as provide a complex that that does actually fit in there. So I just wanted to take that time to make that point. Okay, thank you. William Sterling: Any committee members have any more comments, or should we continue this hearing? Because I think it was pretty clear that we don't have enough information to really make a decision yet. So we would like to continue this hearing to a time when the architects could answer some of these questions about parking lot lighting, buffer zones and proposed an existing landscape that will be Unknown: just that they're not going to approve anything they don't have enough information, and that the architects have to come back with a laundry list of stuff they're giving them Sorry. Robin Borgestedt: Can people please mute themselves if they're not speaking? Thanks. Yeah.
William Sterling: So I think that enough, though, that we we need more information and we look forward to seeing the answers.
Robin Borgestedt: Do we need to continue this to a specific date? Otherwise, we're supposed to issue a decision within No, William Sterling: that's true. Does the architect able to tell us when they can be ready with revised proposed plan? Unknown: I think we'll have to get back to you on that. I don't think we can do that at this this time. Okay,
Robin Borgestedt: so then we need it. Do we need an extension so that we don't hit our 30 day? Well, I checked William Sterling: with Robert on that we used to have to do that when I was on the zoning board, but he says it's no longer required. We just reschedule when they're ready. Robin Borgestedt: So then I move that we reschedule us to a point in time when the architect and the applicant already with more detailed information. William Sterling: Okay, anyone want to second that? Tanya? Want to second
Robin Borgestedt: that? Say it out loud. Tanya, Tatiana Person: yes, second. William Sterling: Okay, thanks. We're all in favor, I presume, of Yes. Thank you all for coming. It's been a really interesting discussion, and I think this kind of open communication will lead to, I'm sure that can lead to a number of compromise solutions that will certainly, you know, certainly be an improvement over what you feel is going in right now. I hope that it will have open discussions in the future.
Unknown: Thank you. Thank you for coming. All right. Thank you. Thank you for having us so. William Sterling: The next item on the agenda is the review of the Wayland design guidelines. And anyone who wants, I guess, could stay. I. Are tuned. I would leave it again, open it up to Tanya and Robin. If you had any new comments having looked at the meeting notes, you may that may refresh your memory of what we had discussed and whether you have any comments, if not, I think that what we may have to do is basically assign folks to take on different aspects that were discussed at the meeting.
Tatiana Person: I don't have new comments. I could repeat my old one, if needed. Okay? And I do think there is a significant difference, distinguished difference between residential and commercial architecture, which should be identified in the guidelines. Yeah, it could be commercial. Commercial architecture could be done in the traditional, respectful way, respectful way to the environment and and context and but it should have different feel involved in surrounded, surrounding residential architecture and elements, material, lighting, should be identified in a different way for commercial versus for residential area. And I think we do need distinct commercial we're trying to create a commercial district, and for that very reason, we need to identify a proper, proper architecture for this. And in addition to the specific guidebooks, guidebooks that was presented, I think we need better examples than what's there. So just additional comment the sketches that were presented, I think we should look for and find better examples that will represent this idea. Also the very important things that the density. We should look at the density of this area and define its should be defined also in the guidelines. Okay,
William Sterling: great. Thanks. And Robin, Robin Borgestedt: yeah. I mean, most of the things that you listed, I think there were seven things looking here, yeah, six things. Most of them were fine. You know, the the I DoD should be, there should be a map in there, and I'm sure Robert can provide one the photo affinities coming out. Obviously, I didn't know if there's something else that we can think of that represents sort of a modern village style. Finnerty certainly wasn't a modern village style. You know? I guess you know, they're the the sort of, the large office building that's in this in on route 20, that yellow building, and the the building next to the post office, it's a small office building there, and the CVS, you know, those, I think, what most people would think of as a village style commercial thing. But, you know, if we want to do other things that are have a more modern feel than we should be providing an image. So I don't know if somebody has something off the top of their head that they want to if we want to next, you know, at another meeting, look at some photos of buildings and pick what goes in there, and then make the design standard. If we're broadening that for commercial property, then you know, we can look at those images and see what we can do to sort of make William Sterling: a great first step that we, maybe all three of us, come up with some photographs that we can share at the next meeting and that we would insert as good examples. I think that's great. Tony. You what you just discussed. It'd be great if you go out and find some buildings you can photograph and say this is Tatiana Person: what you're talking about. Yeah. William Sterling: Well, I was even thinking after your comment last week, Robin of driving back through Concord because you had mentioned that. And I, I know it's true, but I want to go back and look at how many and what vintage and what what it is that makes them, you know, fit into that sort of village style. Robin Borgestedt: Yep, I think that. You know. And even, you know, downtown Wellesley has, you know, it has a vibe. It's got a thing going on, and it's so you can kind of look there, and there's good, bad and ugly there as well. So, yeah, and then, so, you know, we had some building materials we wanted to discourage. And that's matter of you know, coming up with a list, I think you two are probably better at that than I am, because I don't really know the extensive array of building materials that are out there. And then, yes, signage. I think we're going to work on signage with the zoning board and planning board and see what we can do there. Yep. So yeah, you know there was some images you wanted to replace, so we can just work on that. Let's do that. So like you want to pull out the sketch of the Shell gas station to see if we can find something that is acceptable, I don't know William Sterling: well, it none of them will ever actually fit into, you know, either residential or commercial style, because they're they're always just Flat Roof, you know, protection from the Robin Borgestedt: weather? Yeah? Well, there has to be some somewhere, William Sterling: delicate ways of detailing, those right, really ugly ways of detail. So I think we can find a couple examples that are least offensive. Let's put it that way. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, they sometimes. That's all you can get. Yeah. So, and that was sort of the list. So it's just something we kind of have to work through as we go along. But I think starting with some images, and then sort of going backwards, taking the images that we like, that we agree on, and then extrapolating a description out of that to turn into a design guideline. Great. William Sterling: I think it's great. So if there's nothing else on the design guidelines, we can move on to the next topic if Unknown: you want. Yep.
William Sterling: Okay, so that's just the meeting notes from the last meeting.
I sent a copy. I already had a Nina send you a copy. I hope you got it. I don't know. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, I just got it. I haven't really had a chance to read through it. It's longer than our usual minutes. William Sterling: Oh, yeah, because we really discuss a lot. Yeah. Robin Borgestedt: So maybe we can approve them at a we do we know when we're having our next meeting aside tonight. That's right, we can do another meeting in a couple weeks. William Sterling: Okay? We'll defer that. And then then I can make a motion that we adjourn at 806. Robin Borgestedt: Okay, I second it, I second it, William Sterling: okay, all those in favor, yes. Tanya Belton, okay, it's uh, it was a good meeting. Thanks a lot.
aka Design Review advisory board, and we are meeting tonight on soon only, but it's probably being recorded. It should be recorded, so anyone who wants to will be able to check it out later as well the I will ask if there's any public comment, raise your hand if anyone wants to say something other than the topic that we're covering tonight, which is the application of Saint mercurious and Saint Mina Coptic Orthodox Church, plus later on, around 730 we're going to review the design guidelines and then meeting minutes and then trying to adjourn by eight or so.
I see no raised hands. Somebody has their hand raised. That was me. I think I clicked on my raised hand. No. Robin Borgestedt: Kent Walker has his hand raised very top. William Sterling: Okay, I see it. Thank you. Unknown: Anytime, hello, talk, William Sterling: Kent, you're now on if you'd like to raise a point, yeah, Unknown: yeah. I've looked at the design materials that were submitted to the Tom, and I am astonished that they are so so little in keeping with the location on rice road. Robin Borgestedt: So Mr. Walker, if these comments are about the application that we're reviewing tonight, those public comments should come after we discuss the application. Unknown: This is my head. I thought you wanted to know who. Yeah, this is for Robin Borgestedt: public comments about things that are not on the agenda. Specifically, I Unknown: beg your pardon. William Sterling: Okay, we welcome your comments when we get on that topic,
Robin Borgestedt: can the folks who are here to speak about the application from the architect raise their hand so that we know who we need to pull into the meeting? Yeah?
There we go.
William Sterling: So I think we should move on, then to the two who just raised their hand to talk about the project, since we've already reviewed it last week when you were unable to attend, and I will allow both of you at the same time, I guess, and you all to decide which of You wants to speak slanden or lost the name Courtney. Unknown: Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, great, thank you. I think Courtney and I can speak when, when we need to. William Sterling: Oh, good. Well, we usually ask the applicant to write a summary, or speak a summary of what it is you would like us to know about your project, and then we'll respond.
Unknown: Would you like me to go now? Yeah, now, it'd be great. Okay, great. So thank you for the opportunity to present the project. We appreciate it the goal with the design of this project and this campus is basically to reflect the traditions of the Coptic Church. And we had a meeting a with the butters the other night, and I think there was much surprise to the design of the building, and it was not a traditional Catholic Church. This has very definite Coptic Orthodox features, and we are trying to be sensitive to the surrounding neighborhood in the landscape. As you know, the building complex sits in the hillside where there is a great difference of about 30 feet from the lower portion to the. Upper portion up by Turkey Hill. So it's organized into three separate buildings. There is the church building. There is a building with a recreational use as well as classrooms. And at the end of that building there is additional classrooms and some senior housing. The third building is the the church building the diocese, and they are planned to be phased in design and construction. The church itself is a is the focal point of the design. It will be, it is planned to be the first building to be designed and constructed. The existing church will remain as is it is, until the end of the second phase, which is the Building B, which you would see on the plans. And then the the third building would would come considerably, much later. So throughout the design process, we've worked with the topography, and we've done this for a few reasons. We wanted it to sit within the hillside so that it didn't present itself in a very obvious way to the surrounding neighbors up behind in Turkey Hill. It it does sit sort of in the center, and it is around a center Piazza, which is sort of a courtyard, and that is done so that there are gatherings that you know would happen in there, and would minimize the noise you know, which would presumably be more prevalent on the on the outside. So I would say that we are trying to stick with and meet, you know, all the design guidelines set forth by the town of Wayland and and so I think that's really a brief description of of what the complex is. Can I William Sterling: interrupt you for a second at this stopping point? Selanda, I need your your full name, and I presume you're with DSK. Is that Unknown: right? Yes, it's Sean, S, S, H, A, U, N, Landon,
William Sterling: okay, I got it. Unknown: Thank you. Sorry it didn't show up that way in the header. William Sterling: Is Courtney also going to speak? Or do we move on? Unknown: I am here in order to answer any questions. My name is Courtney Borelli, also from DSK architects, good.
William Sterling: So I guess now then I would, I'd pass the baton around to our board members. Robin, would you like to ask any questions or discuss any of the things that you want them to address.
I think you're on mute.
Robin Borgestedt: Okay, sorry. One of the things we discussed last week is you commented today that you're trying to work with the topography in the area, but it seems like you're doing the opposite with some retaining walls and really pushing into that hill. And it seems like you're more fighting the topography than working with it. So that was a concern. We really don't know if you're working with the design guidelines, because this is really, there isn't enough detail in this plan to let us know whether that is or isn't true, and is just an awful lot of pavement here as well. So those were some of the concerns we had this. The massing of these buildings is just, I think, of concern, considering what was on the site before. So I think it's probably why you had some pushback from the butters. But I. Right, some concerns with the use of the space and the fact that we have very little detail to go on to know whether you're meeting the design guidelines in terms of the materials and the look and feel of the building and some of the other design guidelines that exist in Tom anything for you.
Tatiana Person: I'm wondering if, in addition to those plans that were presented, you have any 3d view for us to see how it's overall looks, how it sits on the hill, maybe we misread the plan, and it's a bit different.
William Sterling: I'm sorry, Tanya, I didn't hear all of that. Tatiana Person: I was wondering if they could present any 3d view representing the design.
William Sterling: I think that's a good question. I
Unknown: uh, I guess we could present that. I'm not sure how to to actually get that up on the screen. William Sterling: You have the drawings you submitted. Robin could actually post all those, if you Robin Borgestedt: want. Yeah, there isn't really the, well, we have the plans. I'm just, my point is that I think they're they don't really give us details in terms of finishes and materials and things like that, which is what we're supposed to be reviewing. So but I would, Mr. Landon, I'm sure you can share your screen and show the plans if you have them that you want to show Unknown: we do have an axon. It's right on the second page. That helps a little bit. It is a little bit difficult, obviously, with the amount of topography here to see, but page two does have an axon view.
They said we don't have it. Tatiana Person: Robin, maybe I could pull it on the screen. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, I can share my screen if you guys can't
Unknown: unmute it. It.
Robin Borgestedt: So is this the plan you're talking about? Yes, Tatiana Person: so maybe on this view, you could explain to us how you work with topography and how those buildings work together.
William Sterling: I actually have a few questions that might help launch the answers you're looking for. There are, there are things that we that I would ask, even without all the detailed information. And by the way, I there may be a lot of pushback from abutters about seeing an Egyptian style Coptic church, but I think that as applicants are within their rights, given the state Dover law that was passed that a project can't be rejected because of the style of the building you're putting up there. So that that is basically it's not a valid criticism from a legal point of view. You may hate it, but that's completely legal, so that will not be part of our discussion. Except I would say I've been to Egypt, and I've been to see Coptic churches, and I think it's actually very similar to St Mark's and Alexandria. I think it's consistent with the style of the traditions of that of that religion. And I think it's very interesting. I think I also think, though, that rather than being strictly reproduct, reproduction of a traditional design that goes back 1000 years that you may want to talk to the owners The property about, first of all, there's this building design code that is now strictly imposing solar panels on the roof and other environmental you know, I should say sustainable methods of design. The only one that comes to me on this is that it may be an interesting kind of variation of that style to push it in the direction of a passive solar so that the size of the walls that face south could be more glass than the sides that face. East North could be less from a sustainable point of view without really sacrificing the traditional appearance of the building. And I would take that one step further and say that our mission in Wayland is to be a green community, and we would therefore encourage a net zero building. And this is an opportunity for you and your client, where you have a long term investment, they could do a cost benefit analysis and determine the benefit of doing a net zero energy building, whether it's solar or a combination of solar and geothermal, or what have you to to achieve that goal. And I think that the one that I feel is easy is free energy is passive solar, where you can face the glass of the buildings to the south, shade them with solar shades. And then I'm thinking more of the your diocese Center and the school, that if you orient them to the south and face glass with solar shading, you get a lot of free energy in the winter that has really no extra cost, because you're just building the building envelope in it with glass in different places, and less glass on the north face, where you have nothing but heat loss through glass on the north side of the building. So that's something I would hope that. And if you're looking for a project that will get a lot of positive attention and feedback, I think that going net zero and showing how you can do that and still have a traditional looking building would make the magazines, if that's something you're looking for. The other questions, I think, that we will not have tonight, I agree with Robin that we don't have detailed information yet, but one of the big questions, I'm sure the neighbors will be concerned about as well, will be the lighting of the parking lot and the how you intend to achieve a dark sky. And I would just say off the top of my head that whatever part you do have requirements for making that parking safe, and the requirements for lighting levels of five foot candles and so forth, you will be required to have lights for lighting up that parking lot. But a way to make it less intrusive on the neighbors, I think that I agree with you. If you settle this site into the hill, then the neighbors are less likely to be bothered by the lights. But I think even better, would be going with low profile lights. That means they're only 12, or at the most, 14 feet off the ground. It means you'll have to have more of the poles, but also well shielded lights that are not visible from any public way. And if you're going to achieve that, I think, I think that the zoning board will probably be very happy about the the only other question I had was, you Yes, the I'm trying to read my notes while talking. I'm sorry,
yeah, the only other thing was that you don't need to just meet the minimum code standard. It would be ideal if you'd go beyond the minimum code standard, standard for building envelopes and solar energy and so forth. That's if you want to respond to that and answer questions about that. I would appreciate that tonight. Otherwise, you know, we'll open it up to other people who are watching. Unknown: So to to speak about the the solar we we have basically covered all of the flat roofs of the Diocese building and the north side of the building B with with panels there, and we are basically just in. In the site planning approval process, and have not gotten to the schematic design phase of the buildings just yet. And so the the materials, or the materiality of the buildings has not been designed yet. We have forms for each of the buildings, and the size of the building was basically designed to provide adequate space for the number of parishioners that they have. And so that really kind of sets the the parameters for the church building in terms of the lighting. We are We are well aware of dark night, and we have done a lighting study, as well as a an acoustic study, you know, for the building complex. And so we're looking into all of those and how best to serve the project and the neighborhood around it. So I guess I really just want to make it known that we're very early on in the design phase of the buildings and all of these things you know, will be taken into consideration and best practice, like I said, for the church And for the neighborhood will be incorporated,
Tatiana Person: also additional comment regarding the site planning, if you are still in the earlier stage, maybe you should consider to register redistribute the parking. It's kind of unfortunate that as you enter into this complex, the first thing that you face, it's quite significant amount of parking. Unknown: We have a a code, which, I guess is it's one parking space per three people. And so we have provided the number of spaces that meet the occupant load for the building complex. And so that's what, that's, what's driving the parking around the buildings. Tatiana Person: I understood the number of parking, but just to consider it, to redistribute it differently. So it's the parking, it's won't be the first thing, because you enter the bill as a side. Basically you see, you do see this charge, but basically your see the parking lots right away. Maybe it should be somehow taken to the back, or Unknown: we have been very push the parking towards the back of the site, really, because that's the Turkey Hill side of the site which is closest to residential neighbors. So we're really trying to orient the parking towards rice road on that side, versus having those parking spaces up towards residential neighbors.
Tatiana Person: Okay, maybe in this case, just green barrier between the parking and the buildings would help as well. Unknown: We have also done a landscape plan. So that landscape plan encompasses the entire site, and so there is a combination of trees and shrubberies being used to essentially replace the trees that are being removed. And so, as you would imagine, there is, there's quite an extensive amount of landscape going in there, and I think that that's going to really soften the parking space as well as the buildings, the trees along rice road will remain as they're in the wetland buffer so. So landscape is, is, is being thought about quite extensively.
Robin Borgestedt: I think at our last meeting, when we discussed the application, I don't remember if it was Bill or Tanya, but somebody had suggested that instead of two large parking lots, that you have one two story parking lot, so that there was less impermeable space. I uh, just a thought noted. Thank you, Bill,
do you want to open it up for public comment? William Sterling: Yeah, I don't have any. Other questions at this point, so I think I will ask anyone who wants to raise their hand. I will try and there's one I'm just going to order. I have them there. That's Oh, sorry. Go ahead again. I thought you were muted. Robin Borgestedt: He is muted. JL, Hello, yeah, yes, can you state your name and your street address for the record? Unknown: Yes, it's Joseph shared her 147 rice road. Okay, I guess the question I have, and maybe this isn't the right forum for that, I'm just kind of surprised that I heard about this for the first time, like recently, is this, are they digging into conservation land for those parking lots?
William Sterling: Bill, do you want to let the architect answer that? Listen. JJ, here is your reminder,
Robin Borgestedt: Mr. Landon or miss Borelli, do you want to address that question? Unknown: JJ, sure. The entire property is owned by the church, and none of it is conservation property. So you're putting all three of those buildings in that small property. Then it is five and a half acres.
William Sterling: You answer that let me, Susan, I will let you ask a question. Unknown: Thank you. My name is Susan Todd, and I'm a resident of Turkey Hill village, and I was reading the general guidelines for the town, the design guidelines, general guideline number one says newly constructed buildings should not overwhelm or disregard the adjacent context with regard to building, location, Scale, bulk, massing, material, color, texture and fenestration. And my question is whether or not the Dover amendment allows for a church to be exempt from all the general guidelines of the town, which clearly would be severely challenged by a building project of this scale and scope. Can you help me understand, William Sterling: I know a little bit about the Dover amendment that basically is based on exactly this kind of a question in the town of Dover, I believe it was a Catholic church tried to get a zoning approval, and town of Dover turned them down. So they appealed it to the state. The state overturned that, and then they passed a law saying no one can ever do this again. So yes, this is another case where Dover amendment is designed exactly for this condition. You can't just say it's too big for my neighborhood.
Can I go into another question? Nicole, I'm just calling the order they show up here.
Unknown: Can you hear me?
Robin Borgestedt: Fairly?
Unknown: Yes, Hi, I'm Nicole Goodwin. I live at one Turkey Hill. So I'm located, I literally just moved in to this location, and I believe my property is going to be directly affected by this expansion. So I'd love more information on what I am going to see and lose in my backyard, because I'm right. Is there going to be information provided in terms of tree line and sight line for me being in that location?
William Sterling: Let me interject first before the architect answers that. I think I would encourage them, when they get to that stage of the design, to improve on this isometric drawing that they've done with actual perspective renderings, basically overlays of photographs of the various views that people driving on rice road and in the. Neighborhood will see. I think that's going to be very important for everyone in the town to get perspective views from the public ways. Now I let the architect answer in any way they feel they should. Unknown: Mr. Sterling, I think you're you're absolutely correct. The fact that we find the building in Revit and we do have sitting in the site, gives us the opportunity to be able to look at and gage the amount of coverage that would be between in a butters property in the church. The plan for for the trees, around the parking and around the perimeter of the of the site, our plan to to stay there, to remain and provide that Piper. And you know, as you you know, we are in the very beginning stages of this design, and we can continue to look at that further if it seems like we are, you know, coming across as offensive to anybody. So I guess that's our response. Yeah. I would, I would greatly appreciate that. That'd be really thoughtful, knowing that, I mean, I know this area is considered chosen for its sort of nature and its peace and quiet, and that is why I moved here. And I, you know, I also appreciate your ability to worship. And I just, I would, I would appreciate that being thoughtful in terms of how you guys, I already am aware of the noise of the children from the church. So if that could be heavily considered, since I am, like, literally right behind the property, I would greatly appreciate that. Thank you.
Robin Borgestedt: I would point out that in the plans that were submitted with the application, there are some elevations from different sides. It's not always clear what you know where there'll be trees blocking your view from that elevation, but you should review those. And I think I would remind people that they might want to attend the at least go on to the Zoom link for the October 15 Planning Board meeting where this will be discussed much more in detail. Unknown: Definitely, definitely. Thank you, William Sterling: noi, I would encourage the Kent Walker to speak. He had plugged in earlier and talked before, Aunt Walker Unknown: computer, his wife, Helene Feinberg Walker and we are at 13 Brandywine in Turkey Hill village. And I have to first say something positive, which is, I enjoy the noise of the children playing. It's happy noise, and I'm glad that that's provided for them. What I'm interested in asking now is if there's been an impact study on a scenic highway, and I don't know that Dover was having a church built on the scenic highway and in a conservation area. And I don't know if some exemptions can be made for that. That's one thing is our scenic Highway, which will have a very large a building, three large buildings. They may be very beautiful buildings, but nonetheless, there are three very large buildings with Spire, two spires and a dome. And the other part of that, aside from the scenic highway, is the there's a lovely buffer of many mature trees right along the road between Turkey Hill on Turkey Hill Road. The church side has wonderful mature trees. Um, a very lovely buffer zone there. So from where I live, I don't see the church. The buffer of the trees is beautiful. Plus they're wonderful mature trees, and my understanding is that they'll be taken down about 450 mature trees, replaced with baby trees and shrubs and parking and impermeable surfaces. And this is, I mean, we came here for the conservation land. It's gorgeous, that's what brought us, and it's peaceful and quiet. You see Fox, you see Turkey, SWAT turkeys. Anyway, I'm hoping that a lot of thought will be given to the nature of the area, the nature of the area, and the nature of the area, and how that. That will be disrupted. Thank you. William Sterling: Thank you. I missed your name, your first name, Helene, Unknown: he L, E, N, E. William Sterling: Thank you for giving your information. Let me go on then to the next one on this. This, this, Barbara,
Unknown: Hello, yes, can hear you. Barbara,
to me whether the planning board has already approved this or what? William Sterling: What is your last name? Barbara? Oh, Unknown: no, no. I live on 1201. Magnolia drive. William Sterling: Thank you. Unknown: So my question? Well, I have a couple questions. One, has the planning board approved this? Robin Borgestedt: It hasn't even come before the planning board yet. Unknown: Okay, and the design is not detailed yet. When is it anticipated that construction would begin after approval. If there is approval, the William Sterling: architect would have to answer that. I don't know if their schedule is like Unknown: the schedule right now would be towards the end of 2027
Okay, so the future sessions with the planning board and the zoning board are all preliminary to approval. Is that? William Sterling: Yes, that's right. Unknown: Thank you. Okay, William Sterling: thank you for joining in. Beth Raynor is next.
Hello. Unknown: I'm Beth Raynor, or Elizabeth Raynor. I'm at eight, Christina in Turkey Hill. And I also had a number of questions, as Healey raised because the drawings would indicate that although the architect mentioned trees being planted, it really looks as if the asphalt will go right to the property line. So from all the views that we can see, they'll either be parking or there will be a fire road, also asphalt on the perimeter, and there doesn't even appear to be any space to replace the 450 trees that will be removed. I would like to add that I don't believe that any of the, at least any of the Turkey Hill village residents that I have talked to have any issue with the nature of the church design, as much as scope, scale and removal of the natural resources on the property and replacement of that with impermeable surfaces. So I just wish to say that, and I did want to say that I am a little confused, because I know the Dover amendment does protect the, you know, religious communities from building spaces where they it's important for them to worship. However, I see this project as having multiple uses and one includes religious worship, their church. One includes, so, you know, a church complex, I would say, and then once, an athletic complex. So that includes a soccer field, as I understand it, that although it wasn't seen on all the drawings, that there would be a soccer field, there would be interior basketball courts and such. So I consider that sort of a separate thing from worship. And then the third being the housing, which is, you know, a 25 apartment complex. So I see this as not a single building or even a group of buildings for worship, but really a much larger scope, and I think this is the problem. I certainly know that that I'm experiencing and trying to understand, and also if the if the architect could speak, given the extremely large scale of this, as to how long they perceive the anticipate, the project, the construction to go on, how many years? Because it would seem that many, many years would would be required to do this. So thank you for listening. William Sterling: Those are great questions, I think that the Arctic may be able to answer what. The phasing. You answered what phase one might be, but you didn't answer what two and three, or a and b and c you call them. So do you have an answer to that? Yes. Unknown: So the phasing is set up that building a, which is the church. We're trying to get into the design of the church before the end of the year, and that will take, basically, to, I believe, the end of August next year, to get through the building B, which is the recreational building with classrooms in it. There has been some discussion about the time in which that is is goes into design, and we haven't quite finalized that, but I think the presumption is anywhere from three to five years. And the Building C, which is the diocese building, is considerably, much longer than that. After building B,
William Sterling: 1015, years is there's no guess. Unknown: I would say you're not far off. Robin Borgestedt: And do you have any idea? I think what they're asking is how long the actual construction will take, if you're starting in 2027 How long do you expect construction to go on? Unknown: We've estimated the construction time to be about 18 months for the church and similar for the building date.
William Sterling: That sounds all right. And I don't think
that our committee can answer the questions, the legal questions about I can take a guess, but I'm not a lawyer, so I don't think we can answer that. I think that really will come down to the legal staff for the applicant to explain and defend. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, yeah. I think you'll hear more about that in the planning board meetings where that's more of an issue, because the design review board doesn't we don't approve or deny anything. All we do is evaluate and advise. So Dover is not really so much of a concern for us. It's really a planning board issue. William Sterling: Yeah, let me go to the next raised hand. Meyer Dana,
Unknown: hello, hello. Can you hear me? Yes. I just had a few questions Robin Borgestedt: name and address, first, oh, nine. Christina Unknown: in Turkey Hill village. William Sterling: I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. Unknown: Nine Christina, okay, thank you. The plan that you actually put up on the screen a while ago shows the main entrance. What it doesn't show is, is that the only access point no onto the property.
I mean, right now they use a driveway that comes in off of Turkey Hill Road, William Sterling: as they show they showed two driveways, both off rice road, Unknown: the drive from Turkey Hill Road is being removed. Ah, there's William Sterling: a curve on rice road. On Unknown: the other question I had is, I It's a it seems a bit ingenuous that the architect would say what we're trying to do is recess the buildings into the hill to minimize their visibility to the neighborhood primarily, and certainly it's going to be Turkey Hill village. When the brief thing I saw about this, and I haven't had a chance to really look at prints is that the hill is 30 feet high and the church is going to be 90 feet high. Thank you. I mean, is that a correct statement? That is a correct statement The how is that burying it in the back the side of the hill. Well, we're not building it on top of the hill. You know, we're trying to for the for the folks in Turkey Hill. We're trying to give them relief in the form of the elevation change as well as the. The existing trees that are around the perimeter, and so that greatly reduces the overall height of what is being presented to them in in the way of the church elevation.
I think that's, I don't mean to be rude, but that's a self serving comment. It's going to stick up 60 feet above the top of the hill, yes, which is considerably more than, probably more than the trees that are there now, which apparently you're going to cut most of them down, not around the perimeter. William Sterling: I think it would help this discussion next time we meet to have the architect draw the buffer zone, break it out separately, so that the butters get a better picture of how much buffer there is, how many trees are in the buffer zones. Unknown: One other question, and I'm not I'm not familiar with the Dover amendment enough to and I'm not sure if this is the only place to go talk about it. I guess my impression is the DOVER amendment allows a church to build a church? William Sterling: No, it's not just a church. It's any nonprofit. It's opened up much wider than people seem to think, Unknown: and that includes schooling, housing, and then office building could be
there's no office building. You know, in this space, I assume that's what the diocese center is, or what the front building on rice road. That's a that's actually the main space is to be used for gathering, sort of a function hall.
I see, I I just, I kid, I can't get over the mass of this project in relation to the location. I think it's, it's takes away from the whole ambience of why people are living in this area. But so be it, it's nothing more I can say.
William Sterling: Thank you. Ken brush has raised his hand,
is Ken still on? I think it should
Robin Borgestedt: be, I guess not. Well, he's muted. Mr. Brass, you're muted. Can you unmute yourself? Okay. Can you hear me now? Now we can. Unknown: Yes. Hey, I live at five. Brandy one. I like the fact that this includes housing, because I think there's a critical need for more housing. My two questions, though are to reduce the scope of this project, is there a possibility to retrofit the existing church building to not serve as not to replace the church, but perhaps to reduce the need for, I don't know, maybe building three. And my second question involves the environmental impact of removing 400 trees on the topography, particularly with regards to rain, snow, ice melt, that change of, as I said, topography, how is, what's the impact of that? Is that been looked into less we have to deal with flooding, center, basement. Thank you. William Sterling: Thank you for asking those again. Robin Borgestedt: My response would be that you should participate in the planning board meetings and any Conservation Commission meetings and other meetings that will come up later on in this process, starting with planning board on October 15, that's really outside the purview of design review. I think. Is that true? William Sterling: Bill, yeah, I think that's true. Now we had someone race again. I'll go back to
Robin Borgestedt: Jay, Mr. Sheridan, yeah,
William Sterling: if you would like to ask,
Unknown: Hey, can you hear me? I'm sorry. I'll lower my hand. I actually did that. I apologize. Robin Borgestedt: No problem. Is there anybody else?
William Sterling: I didn't see any others. Robin Borgestedt: That's it. Anybody else for public comment? Last call.
Mr. Brush, did you have something else to say? Or you just still have your hand up?
Unknown: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Robin Borgestedt: that's okay. Just wanted to make sure, yep.
William Sterling: So is there any closing statement that the applicant would like to make before we move on to another item on our agenda?
Unknown: Yeah, I just, I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity to present this and allow us to hear the comments from from the crowd. The building, I just want to say, is basically been carefully designed to balance the tradition and function, you know, of the community. And you know, I know that there's been a lot of talk about, you know, the the size and massing of the building, but we, we are doing our best to break them down into, you know, more, you know, three buildings, so that it's not just a, you know, too large or, you know, one large building. And so we're doing, you know, everything that we we can to to make the building function as well as provide a complex that that does actually fit in there. So I just wanted to take that time to make that point. Okay, thank you. William Sterling: Any committee members have any more comments, or should we continue this hearing? Because I think it was pretty clear that we don't have enough information to really make a decision yet. So we would like to continue this hearing to a time when the architects could answer some of these questions about parking lot lighting, buffer zones and proposed an existing landscape that will be Unknown: just that they're not going to approve anything they don't have enough information, and that the architects have to come back with a laundry list of stuff they're giving them Sorry. Robin Borgestedt: Can people please mute themselves if they're not speaking? Thanks. Yeah.
William Sterling: So I think that enough, though, that we we need more information and we look forward to seeing the answers.
Robin Borgestedt: Do we need to continue this to a specific date? Otherwise, we're supposed to issue a decision within No, William Sterling: that's true. Does the architect able to tell us when they can be ready with revised proposed plan? Unknown: I think we'll have to get back to you on that. I don't think we can do that at this this time. Okay,
Robin Borgestedt: so then we need it. Do we need an extension so that we don't hit our 30 day? Well, I checked William Sterling: with Robert on that we used to have to do that when I was on the zoning board, but he says it's no longer required. We just reschedule when they're ready. Robin Borgestedt: So then I move that we reschedule us to a point in time when the architect and the applicant already with more detailed information. William Sterling: Okay, anyone want to second that? Tanya? Want to second
Robin Borgestedt: that? Say it out loud. Tanya, Tatiana Person: yes, second. William Sterling: Okay, thanks. We're all in favor, I presume, of Yes. Thank you all for coming. It's been a really interesting discussion, and I think this kind of open communication will lead to, I'm sure that can lead to a number of compromise solutions that will certainly, you know, certainly be an improvement over what you feel is going in right now. I hope that it will have open discussions in the future.
Unknown: Thank you. Thank you for coming. All right. Thank you. Thank you for having us so. William Sterling: The next item on the agenda is the review of the Wayland design guidelines. And anyone who wants, I guess, could stay. I. Are tuned. I would leave it again, open it up to Tanya and Robin. If you had any new comments having looked at the meeting notes, you may that may refresh your memory of what we had discussed and whether you have any comments, if not, I think that what we may have to do is basically assign folks to take on different aspects that were discussed at the meeting.
Tatiana Person: I don't have new comments. I could repeat my old one, if needed. Okay? And I do think there is a significant difference, distinguished difference between residential and commercial architecture, which should be identified in the guidelines. Yeah, it could be commercial. Commercial architecture could be done in the traditional, respectful way, respectful way to the environment and and context and but it should have different feel involved in surrounded, surrounding residential architecture and elements, material, lighting, should be identified in a different way for commercial versus for residential area. And I think we do need distinct commercial we're trying to create a commercial district, and for that very reason, we need to identify a proper, proper architecture for this. And in addition to the specific guidebooks, guidebooks that was presented, I think we need better examples than what's there. So just additional comment the sketches that were presented, I think we should look for and find better examples that will represent this idea. Also the very important things that the density. We should look at the density of this area and define its should be defined also in the guidelines. Okay,
William Sterling: great. Thanks. And Robin, Robin Borgestedt: yeah. I mean, most of the things that you listed, I think there were seven things looking here, yeah, six things. Most of them were fine. You know, the the I DoD should be, there should be a map in there, and I'm sure Robert can provide one the photo affinities coming out. Obviously, I didn't know if there's something else that we can think of that represents sort of a modern village style. Finnerty certainly wasn't a modern village style. You know? I guess you know, they're the the sort of, the large office building that's in this in on route 20, that yellow building, and the the building next to the post office, it's a small office building there, and the CVS, you know, those, I think, what most people would think of as a village style commercial thing. But, you know, if we want to do other things that are have a more modern feel than we should be providing an image. So I don't know if somebody has something off the top of their head that they want to if we want to next, you know, at another meeting, look at some photos of buildings and pick what goes in there, and then make the design standard. If we're broadening that for commercial property, then you know, we can look at those images and see what we can do to sort of make William Sterling: a great first step that we, maybe all three of us, come up with some photographs that we can share at the next meeting and that we would insert as good examples. I think that's great. Tony. You what you just discussed. It'd be great if you go out and find some buildings you can photograph and say this is Tatiana Person: what you're talking about. Yeah. William Sterling: Well, I was even thinking after your comment last week, Robin of driving back through Concord because you had mentioned that. And I, I know it's true, but I want to go back and look at how many and what vintage and what what it is that makes them, you know, fit into that sort of village style. Robin Borgestedt: Yep, I think that. You know. And even, you know, downtown Wellesley has, you know, it has a vibe. It's got a thing going on, and it's so you can kind of look there, and there's good, bad and ugly there as well. So, yeah, and then, so, you know, we had some building materials we wanted to discourage. And that's matter of you know, coming up with a list, I think you two are probably better at that than I am, because I don't really know the extensive array of building materials that are out there. And then, yes, signage. I think we're going to work on signage with the zoning board and planning board and see what we can do there. Yep. So yeah, you know there was some images you wanted to replace, so we can just work on that. Let's do that. So like you want to pull out the sketch of the Shell gas station to see if we can find something that is acceptable, I don't know William Sterling: well, it none of them will ever actually fit into, you know, either residential or commercial style, because they're they're always just Flat Roof, you know, protection from the Robin Borgestedt: weather? Yeah? Well, there has to be some somewhere, William Sterling: delicate ways of detailing, those right, really ugly ways of detail. So I think we can find a couple examples that are least offensive. Let's put it that way. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, they sometimes. That's all you can get. Yeah. So, and that was sort of the list. So it's just something we kind of have to work through as we go along. But I think starting with some images, and then sort of going backwards, taking the images that we like, that we agree on, and then extrapolating a description out of that to turn into a design guideline. Great. William Sterling: I think it's great. So if there's nothing else on the design guidelines, we can move on to the next topic if Unknown: you want. Yep.
William Sterling: Okay, so that's just the meeting notes from the last meeting.
I sent a copy. I already had a Nina send you a copy. I hope you got it. I don't know. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah, I just got it. I haven't really had a chance to read through it. It's longer than our usual minutes. William Sterling: Oh, yeah, because we really discuss a lot. Yeah. Robin Borgestedt: So maybe we can approve them at a we do we know when we're having our next meeting aside tonight. That's right, we can do another meeting in a couple weeks. William Sterling: Okay? We'll defer that. And then then I can make a motion that we adjourn at 806. Robin Borgestedt: Okay, I second it, I second it, William Sterling: okay, all those in favor, yes. Tanya Belton, okay, it's uh, it was a good meeting. Thanks a lot.
Economic Development Committee
12-Sep-25 - Economic Development Committee01:33:39
28-Aug-25 - Economic Development Committee33:31
14-Aug-25 - Economic Development Committee01:33:27
Rebecca Stanizzi: Alright, we
will call to order the Wayland
EDC meeting for September,
Friday, September 12. 2005 one
may be a watch or might
participate remotely with the
meeting link that can be found
on the agenda pursuant to
chapter two of the acts of 2025
this meeting will be conducted
in person and via remote means,
in accordance with applicable
law. This meeting will be
recorded and made available to
the public on WayCAM as soon
after the meeting as is
practicable. So with that, I'm
not seeing any attendees or
public comment. No one is here
publicly. Technically, this is a
hybrid meeting, but all the
participants right now are in
person. So Karen Kelly, Katie
Harris, David Larry and myself,
Rebecca Stan, see, we may have
one other person joining
remotely, I believe, so we'll
keep track when that happens. So
meeting minutes from August 28
was not able to get those done
yet. That was again, sort of our
meeting of just tackling the
memo. So we'll do that for next
time town planner update, I
added it, but Robert is still on
vacation, so back next week, I
think. So hopefully next
meeting, we'll be able to get
that, get that report from him.
I did note on the planning board
agenda, they mentioned the
splash pad in the town planner
report at the end. I didn't
watch it,
Karen Kelly: but Oh, from when
Rebecca Stanizzi: they met
Wednesday, I think usually go
back and we came and you can
yep, yep, just swing by and ask
Anina, because it was a Nina who
reported instead of Robert.
Karen Kelly: So okay, because it
was
Unknown: this past Wednesday.
Yeah, yeah, I'll pop in and
watch that
Katie Noble Harris: link. David, if you happen to David Villari: it'll take me, like, three days to find it, but I will, well, Rebecca Stanizzi: it's always at the end. So on the agenda, it's always the town planner report at the end that Yes. So, yes, yeah. So just deliver for Adina speaking. And you know, time of date, timestamp, Karen Kelly: wait till Monday to look right, David Vallari: just because it'll take, Rebecca Stanizzi: sometimes it takes a couple of days. Yeah, and it's funky right now. It's not an I don't think they switched it back. It's still, you go to wake him, usually you see the whole grid of meetings. But it's like, it's not working right now. I think they're posting directly to YouTube or something, I don't know, but go look at the top of the list, and you'll see them there. Marvel. David Villari: Yeah, I'll find at some point. And then when I do, I'll send a link today, and we can save Rebecca Stanizzi: Alright, so the EDC annual reports. So for newbies, if you've never seen, actually, the Wayland town report, it's like they publish a book pretty much every year, and every board and committee gives a report of what they did for the past year. So usually it's like they say to be about 1000 words. This is about 1100 but ultimately, so we're saying before I struggled to get it below 1000 like, Oh, it's just the guidelines. Okay, so it just kind of gives an update of the business that you did in the fiscal year. So that is July 120 24 through June 30 of 2025, which is the fiscal year. Karen Kelly: So they're a digital copy of it. Rebecca Stanizzi: There must be on the on the website. Yeah, it's usually there's like, stack of them sitting around somewhere, but, yeah, it's kind of interesting. Flip through a nail. Like everybody, every board and committee is reporting on what they did Unknown: so well. And that would be like, if we did have a digital copy, that would be a great thing to to like when you think about what is the use of AI and and not some are trying to listen to meetings where there's many people talking in person, and some are not, but to actually take something like this that's been approved by every single town board and committee in writing and then be able to push that out as a piece of content a podcast or Something like that, right? That's good point me to be a lot more accurate. Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: Probably really wonder how many people actually read it, but there's a lot of ton of useful information Katie Noble Harris: in it. Yeah. So is there a digital copy, or we're not sure, Rebecca Stanizzi: it must be posted on the website somewhere, okay, thank Interesting. Yeah, who would be the right person ask? Yep, yep. I'm sure if you look on the web, it's almost got a beat. I don't know if it's a state requirement, but it's really something they've they've done. Katie Noble Harris: So when does it usually release the whole Rebecca Stanizzi: Fay. It's always due by September 30, yep. And then, typically you see it within like, a month or two. So they just format everything and then just print it all out. It's literally like, you know, it's like a book like that, kind of interesting in your record of what the town did for eons and eons go back years. So were there any comments on this? Anything that didn't read, right? Anything I forgot,
Karen Kelly: anything to add
Katie Noble Harris: that was great. It was like, super informative. And Memory Lane, yeah, Unknown: we did do a lot, a lot good, great.
Rebecca Stanizzi: And then liaison, I put in. And slash Tom, because technically, as of the end of the fiscal year, we had Tom, but just and technically Nick was still our clerk as of the end of fiscal year 25 because that was the end of his term. But so it's literally that snapshot at the we had 30th 2025 Unknown: haven't shared a survey that we didn't hear. I'm sorry, no, Rebecca Stanizzi: and they, they limit you and what you can attach as visuals and attachments, things Unknown: like that. No, I don't mean to start. I mean, they know, okay, that you Rebecca Stanizzi: that we did the survey, the survey results are not Unknown: that's fine, okay, yeah, sorry, that's awesome.
Great. So we could, but no, I want to make sure that we that's mentioned in here. It is interesting. Katie Noble Harris: This is just a tiny note not to belabor anything. But like that, some of these things, like the economic development bond bill and then the tip funds, those are something that like are going to keep they haven't happened yet, and so we're going to have to keep, keep going, keep going with them to get the those big Rebecca Stanizzi: funds. It takes years. Yeah, yeah. So report that went so last year there was like a wrap up of October occupied and generating full tax revenues. So it's like, that snapshot, and then it was like, Oh, we have a new it's like, it literally just sold. But otherwise, you know, before it was just what you did on rivers. I mean, Riverside took us eight years, so it was a long time. So some are longer, some are shorter. All right, any other comments? David, you have anything that you want? David Villari: Just very nice. Minor edits to that one section. Small words, Rebecca Stanizzi: just on the non critical Yeah, to the splash pad. Okay, ground area. Does that say what you guys wanted to say? Is it like a fair capture as of June 30, you guys actually sent the memo? Oh, not until after Labor Day, right? Um, so we in there at all will be recommending, because we were definitely talking about it in June. Yeah, we started talking about it may is considering,
David Villari: is considering, considering is considering, and then maybe just help on wording to reduce some pieces of the funding discussions there CPA only is where I think we're worth exploring, like local fundraising and then Tom meeting budget as well, if needed. Yep, the town Rebecca Stanizzi: meeting budget, you'd be capital budget, and you're going to be down the totem pole, right? So you're not gonna be able to most likely either way, I think so. Saying CPA only might restrict us. Okay? So I'll take it only Yeah, David Villari: and then and amenities, I think would be the only other thing. Yeah, yeah.
Katie Noble Harris: I was interested in the on the last page, the EDC sponsored article for the historic facade of Sydney. I That's the first I've heard of that is, would we ever want to check back in on that, or is it just not worth it? Rebecca Stanizzi: So it came down to the prop. It's a private property. Yeah, right. And so it was an older gentleman and had health and family issues, and he just couldn't kind of get motivated enough to do it. So essentially, CPA said, you know, you've had it for three years. We've set aside those funds, but if you see, he's not going to use it. And so that's we said to him, like, get move it or lose it, right? And basically, let go, because he just couldn't, couldn't quite deal with it. So that was, that was very sad, because we know if the building is still owned by that same person, I have heard it might have been bought by the people next door, who, when he was saying that they might be interested, they were not interested in doing the historic so might be worth checking in. We can always go back to CPA, go back to town meeting, re request the funds, but that's sort of the discipline. They let it go for a little while, but at the end of the day, they don't want to hold on to those David Villari: funds forever. So yeah. So just Katie Noble Harris: curious, if it's worthwhile for us to even just know who the owner of that building is. Seems like a lot of work to try to get those funds. Maybe we don't want to focus our energy on but might just be worthwhile Rebecca Stanizzi: knowing it'd be easy. Now everybody knows what it was, and you know, sort of, oh, look, they're back and they're willing to do it, and here's their signed document. David Villari: Then it could probably be very pretty quick. So, Katie Noble Harris: 70 to 70. Okay, Rebecca Stanizzi: anything else?
Hearing? None? Do I hear a motion to approve. Katie Noble Harris: Motion to approve Unknown: a motion second, second and second. All in favor. Karen, Hi, Katie, hi, Becky. All right. Rebecca Stanizzi: So, so approved as amended. So this came in hot at the last minute that you EDC goals. So given that we did not get you guys have it right, given that we don't have Val's in here, and also given that Jeff didn't rank the major categories, but this just gives you kind of a data dump of where people are at and then also what people wanted to spearhead, and either that or work on so we can kind of digest it a little bit. I mean, even I admit it's really a chance to kind of really deep dive into the data. And kind of typically, what we do before is then rank them. You show where those priorities are based on where the numbers popped out. But you can kind of see, you know, the major categories. It's interesting to see where people were seeing what was important. And a lot of this is also, you know, important based on the time that you have, because it's just only, only so much time in the day. So but, David, I was interested. I think you had a note, and you had several notes on yours, but, like, you had 10s, like, very low on existing corridor cleanup tasks. But why was that? I forget it was because, David Villari: because it should come down to, like, other departments to do the enforcement right, not necessarily. EDC, if we're, if we're, our charter is to, that's what Rebecca Stanizzi: you were feeling like Design Review Board was on top of it, sort of thing. David Villari: Bill Sterling and the team seems to have been empowered by Select Board to, like, take some control on all those guidelines, all those zoning laws, for the facade rules, etc. So, I mean, okay, but that was Rebecca Stanizzi: why you but you saw it as important, which was a high number, but then it was, like a low number. Well, exactly reverse. David Villari: That's exactly reverse. That's exactly that was why I think it's still really important for like, the overall objective of the EDC, like it played into it, but it's the responsibilities of Rebecca Stanizzi: another team to execute well, part of it, as we've seen, like, it falls in between a bunch of teams, right? So Design Review Board, they look at proposals coming in, not necessarily looking backwards, right? And then building department, they're also looking at what's coming in, and not necessarily they can, but they're often not. And so it's like, how do we, how do we marshal those and get them pushed forward? David Villari: So, but, like, so, like, the code administration, I think Robert said very specifically, like, that's the planning board's job Rebecca Stanizzi: on the zoning side, yeah. So part of it is, I think cataloging, which is what Katie and I were doing, literally walking around. And, you know, what do we want to be notifying property owners about? And then it's a question of, who is it going out through? David Villari: Yep. So, okay, Katie Noble Harris: that's actually doing the logistics, like the actual grunt work of making it happen, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, or making and making sure that it happens in the different directions. So, yeah, David Villari: yeah, don't let my 10s, like, super skew it. Do this kind of, Do I understand the roles? Yeah,
Katie Noble Harris: this is just one note. I'm curious to Karen, like, what you think about this. I think I would have said, like a year ago, like, put a one as to, like, reaching out to new businesses. And I will admit I can do more work on that front, and I'm happy to do it, depending on our decisions on this, but I kind of feel like my opinions have changed after working on outreach to a few businesses. Just kind of feels like maybe it's not worth our while, and that if people do want to expand, they will be looking at Wayland, Unknown: and so you're talking about existing or new, Katie Noble Harris: new coming to Wayland. It feels like maybe it's just not worth our time and energy to be going out and making I mean, yeah, occasionally like trying to do our best. But I just, I don't know, after some of the experiences and meetings we've had, I'm it kind of feels like it's a lot of effort for not a lot of Unknown: I appreciate you on that, and also, like the brokers are supposed to be doing this, yeah, yeah. I just it feels like we're, I feel like I'm trying to insert myself into space. I don't know well, and so, you know? And then it's like, well, then what's the process? So we, and then who, like, also thinking through, like, Who do we reach out to at these chains? You know, I think that's the other we might be totally barking the wrong tree. David Villari: Like, I think Jeff said it too. It's like that's very much a broker to broker transaction that we should stay out of, in a way. And I think I did the same thing. I marked that as lower down for us, but then higher up, I marked things like us putting a database together that represents those businesses or those empty storefronts, so that it's easier to access and find out. So give that to brokers. We have the sale brokers, you know, with all that information, all of the, you know, the one mile, two mile, three mile info, like, right at their fingertips, yeah, and then maybe that makes it a little easier, Katie Noble Harris: yeah, it feels like a different thing, reaching out to brokers, rather than like individual businesses. Rebecca Stanizzi: We can, we can hit. 15 or 20 different groups with that one broker. So we need to make sure that the brokers are educated and then David Villari: and see the vision of, like, where everything's trying to go, because they're not seeing that on the day to day, Rebecca Stanizzi: right? Yeah. And most important that they can reach out and who to reach out to at the town, because as they walk in blindly, right? And then you want them to at least have that, yeah, that connection, that conduit, David Villari: I have the same thoughts, Katie Noble Harris: yeah. I mean, does doesn't it feel like we've kind of trying to, yeah? Karen Kelly: No, I, I totally agree with you. Rebecca Stanizzi: That comes down to the predilections of the property owner and what their goals are, and then the vendor and like, there's so many variables, it's just hard to Yeah. Unknown: You think about as like, a risk discussion too. Like, is a business owner going to trust someone just like, as a town representative? It's going to be great. Like that should be a best business risk evaluation that they're doing on the broker sides. I don't think it's necessarily bad. I don't think it looks bad for an economic development group To, but I don't, I think like, we might like, but again, we might reach out to one of five potential people in an org, right, that like might be the one responsible for something like this, and then it just could be a lot of wasted energy. That's my biggest fear. And we only have so much time and David Villari: exactly, Rebecca Stanizzi: and the test case, like, if there is an economic development director, then people know to go to them, like, it's just that natural magnet, because otherwise, if it's not, like, do I got a planning board, do I got a slick board? Like, what do I do? But if there's an ed director, that's where you go if you want to potentially locate so that's the beauty of having that position. And then they are then full time or part time, you know, focused on that, right? Katie Noble Harris: And they're probably tapped into the brokers and the Rebecca Stanizzi: this, over time, they'll get to know everybody who's kind of sniffing around town. Unknown: So it's interesting, we actually all aligned on that. Yeah, I couldn't go I never picked any number low. It's five. My brain only works on scales of one to five. David Villari: I started to fill it out, then I put 10 is like, we should work on that. Yeah? Then you're Rebecca Stanizzi: like, I know. David Vallari: So I did that backwards for a minute. Katie Noble Harris: Is it 10 correct? Rebecca Stanizzi: The lowest
Karen Kelly: trend lines? I think, you know, David Villari: I can always just wait her scores, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, yeah. I think my lowest was a seven. So yeah, I David Villari: did try to, like, focus on putting things as higher, like 10s and eights and stuff, just because there's, like, six of us, yeah. And that was it, yeah. It's like, I think everything here on this list is important in some way, shape or form. It's just, if we have to tackle something to make an impact, what do we do? That's right, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: And then, you know, most importantly off to the right is who's willing to lead an issue and who wants to work on it, kind of seeing some of this stuff. And again, that's why saying, like, pick multiples just because they're, you know, we may have a wealth of people want to work on a certain topic. So that kind of gives a good view of what people are interested in. Karen Kelly: slacker, Rebecca Stanizzi: I know, and Katie. So Katie didn't do it. It was off to the side. Like, I want to do nothing. Unknown: I missed you. Like, look at this. I like and like, David Villari: you can just everything. I put my name next to and Karen too. I think that's where Katie's been, because we tend to overlap very well.
Rebecca Stanizzi: So I think over the next, you know, before next month's meeting, it's a lot to digest right here, but you can kind of look at the data, think it through. You can insert, I'll send it, we'll kind of recirculate the file. Okay, we'll get valves in there, and then, you know, kind of digest. But particularly, okay, it's interesting knowing where we want to go in prior years that there were so many things thrown at the wall, like we're pretty focused in what we're doing now. It's a Karen point. You know, Karen, you didn't have anything lower than a five, right? So it's kind of before. When we were first doing it was, like, all over the map, and you have things that we had a scale of one to five, and it wasn't dense enough, like it didn't give you enough with somebody else's three or something like that. So that was where the 10 came from. But so we'll get Vals Katie, if you can input your your wanting to lead and wanting to participate in and then, yeah, just kind of digest it and what you're seeing and kind of natural teams. David Villari: May find a couple in the others. And I think I might be the only one that did that. Rebecca Stanizzi: So sorry. No, no, you that's exactly what you're supposed to do. Unknown: But I think the only, like, real, other one that's worth discussing, or it needs more detail around it, I'll send a memo, is that last one on the last page, business vacancy fees, Rebecca Stanizzi: is that if there's a vacant storefront, then they're gonna I David Villari: found, like, a really nice set of case studies on like Wellington, they brought it down from like 17 vacancies all the way to six in less than a year, because they started to impose vacancy fees, basically for empty storefronts. Rebecca Stanizzi: We talked about this a bit. Did? We did? We're so unusual. Friendly already. Yeah. Rated that. But. David Villari: But like, who's whose friend should we be? Are we the brokers friend, or are we the town representative? Rebecca Stanizzi: In town, we represent property owners and we are the town. That's good. Clarity, right? That's fine. So it's kind of easy, like in Arlington, things that are more dense, it's much easier. It is typically a small spot in a bigger building. Here, it's typically the whole building, or it's, you know, it's much more impactful. So for us to do a fee that is meaningful enough to get their attention in reverse, it's going to be painful enough that they're going to be really annoyed, right? So it's, you know, part of it was, you know, before it was Whole Foods, that was, that was the poster child, right? That it was just sitting there empty Santander, Bank of America. You kind of knew that something they were paying but you know, kind of our big gaps in our teeth are now kind of filling in, which is good, David Villari: but the math is always like, this is a problem with plazas. And like any large landlord corporation like the math always favors them to boost rents higher, which strangles small businesses out, right? Because they always want, if I have 10 storefronts, and they're like, Okay, I could charge $5,000 a month and have six, you know, tenants, instead of 10, I have $30,000 coming in per month. Or, you know, another landlord come in and under charge and have all 10 filled. But that problem there is that they'd have now four extra, you know, utility bills, water bills, maintenance fees for extra people to keep track of, make sure they're paying their rent like it's a lot more work for them. So there's like, a cost benefit to landlords keeping rent high, and if you de incentivize that, then you bring that more neutral. Unknown: I just worry that we're already, we already struggle to attract retailers. David Villari: But it's not the retailers we're attracting. The brokers own it, right? And the retailers because of the rates of rent. Like, if you talk to businesses in the plaza, a lot of them say the same thing. They're like, rents pretty high, you know? And rents high, and that's controlled by Zurich, or whoever. Right? Katie Noble Harris: Could it be, I'm thinking, not for small businesses? Could it be something that is for larger properties? Yeah, I don't know if that changes your feeling Unknown: about it. I mean, I don't know if we don't think it would discourage I mean, it isn't right. It's not an impact on the small business. It's an impact on the person who owns the building.
Katie Noble Harris: And that owner of the building would have to meet a threshold either their national chain or their Karen Kelly: problem is, though, that the whole foods Plaza was 80% full. Yeah, yeah, it was just dark leases. Katie Noble Harris: So, but I think, couldn't it affect something like David Vallari: empty storefronts would be the like criteria that Rebecca Stanizzi: as a landlord, you can't force your tenant to occupy the space, so I don't know. But if you, if you saw something that was a good summary of case studies, David Villari: well, they, I'll send it. I mean, I created the case study list and stuff. Okay, but there was another one that looked at like, beautification is the wrong word, but it was like, they didn't upkeep the property. So the old Bank of America site, with the lack of mowing for how many years, would have been something that got, like fined, and eventually the fines would have outweighed just paying someone to mow the lawn. And so you would have had a mow the lawn, right? So it's, it's doesn't need to be big to be an impact, right? And get what you want out of the town center Unknown: there, I think, does that fall under the design guidelines? Rebecca Stanizzi: Like the plant flowing doesn't. That's the thing, the maintenance, the initial design does, the meat doesn't. And that's one of the questions is, you know, we sit down with Nate the building inspector and say, What? What do we have the rights control? We're not, we're not like a homeowners association. You have to keep your grass mode and your flowers, right? It's just so we may not have that tool. Should we have that tool in our code? You know that David Villari: all that, it's a tool that other towns have found out how to use. Yeah, right? Rebecca Stanizzi: Useful to know for the next time. David Villari: Yeah, so I'll write it up. I mean, I know, like, I totally hear it. I knew anyway, so I could be enrolled. Unknown: No, I don't think there's a right or wrong here. And I think, like, again, it's like, if it's we would just need to thread the needle, because there are so many ways that even Santander, technically, they're, they have a lease right, they they're getting rent money every month right from that bank. So unless we, in my mind, if we were to do something, we would need to do something that would also thread the needle of penalizing people who a lot like, take offices, yeah, that just like, remain unoccupied for more than six months, or something like that. And I don't know we can do that legally, but in my mind, that would be a practical component. Rebecca Stanizzi: That's one where somebody's paying rent but not looking occupies, correct. The next is like a town center that one corner, this kitty corner from ex golf and across for our sway, the new staff that has been empty from the beginning. It's still gravel in there, like we can do something, right? David Villari: So, oh, I had a question on that, because it was in the infographic. We say 90% is that on square footage? Or number of storefronts? I couldn't square footage. That's on square footage? Yeah, it's like, because the supermarket's huge, yeah. So what could we look at that, fortunately, number maybe as as also, like, what's the storefront vacancy? Because that I'd be curious about, is that more like 60% because it feels more like 60 Rebecca Stanizzi: well, by the time you had the medical bill, they'll be pretty high. I mean, it's just like, you know, yeah, Town Center Plaza. I mean, you have two that are, they're, they're right at Alyssa, Andrew, like they're so prominent, if the old artists of the kids strong space and then that want to cross, everything else is, David Villari: I think, still, I think I counted six when I was there last week that are just empty, empty stores. Yeah, I Unknown: don't know. To Cara, well, like to Carl going to bagel table and David Villari: to card spaces. There was a place behind Takara too, as well. That's a dermatologist. It's a services space available and big, plastered, you might Rebecca Stanizzi: just, but that's for Takara. Yeah. Just, yeah, dermatologist. Couple hair around that David Villari: way, either way. Like, I was curious, because it doesn't always feel like 90 when you're down there and you talk to the storefront people, and they're, Unknown: they're saying the same thing. Do you think it's but I do think it is close to 90, like, I think it just feels, the thing is, like, there's a lot of things about the way that Plaza was designed. Like, when we've gone in and talked to business owners, they're like, You never see people here. And part of that is the design things behind the swift and so you have these little pathways, you know, it's almost like a little street in there, but like, there's, you know, there's a reason why all the new types of like shopping positive squares with parking in the middle, and if you're sitting outside of the restaurant, you can see all the other restaurants and people walking around. There's a sense of, like, there's activity here, and that is just, Katie Noble Harris: it's designed backwards, almost the building space, in Karen Kelly: our very professional opinion, Rebecca Stanizzi: interesting with the new property owner does with it? Yeah, they're good at this. Yeah, they'll understand this. They could change, Katie Noble Harris: change the businesses to incoming businesses to face. Rebecca Stanizzi: They could change incoming businesses. They could add additional square they could reconfigure. They could do whatever, I think there's still additional retail space that they could build. They just haven't, they haven't chosen builders. You're listening. So that'll be those discussions with the David Villari: property owner, the other others that I had added here on support Wayland businesses that section talk about like the ribbon cuttings and the Wayland post and like that could tie in nicely, too, for people that are just driving by and on 20 that don't get the Wayland post Sudbury people. What if you had, like, chocolate therapy on the Billboard, like, one month Unknown: and then so is this an existing billboard? David Villari: You're thinking it's the billboard right at the town center that the town uses, like, every now and then they're advertising like, oh, the planes are coming through, yeah. But like, you see that when you're sitting at the light, yeah? Like it's very visible, yeah? And I'm just wondering, like, could we one week a month, right? Or one week a quarter, or whatever, get a business on there, grow the same Wayland Post article, yeah, and just highlight it, yeah, and then do the same thing in South Wayland and see if we drive a little traffic. Yeah. Unknown: Are you thinking about the what the intersection of old con path and 126 David Villari: Yeah, I couldn't think though, if there was an outboard type thing already in Rebecca Stanizzi: use there, there is, there is, yeah, there's one there and there's one at 20 and 25 Katie Noble Harris: Why would we ever want to do a new one, like an additional one, kind of up, up a little further. Unknown: We do need, like in general, we need signs that are promoting the retail, the current retailers in town, in town center, yeah, yes, the signage, I mean, David Villari: that's, it's after the intersection on the road, yeah. And you can Unknown: even see what's up there. You can't turn you can't see what's up there. There's no sign ahead of time. Yeah, it's just, like, there's just so many basic things I don't know. Like, if there's anything else, like, I like this idea, and we have this, then we have this. The infrastructure is there, intersection there too. I think that could be a good place to start. David Villari: I mean, because if we're doing the work for the Wayland post articles or whatnot, then you just trip it down. Cater it. Put a picture on the map of where the business is. People can go get it Rebecca Stanizzi: well. Plus Katie, as we walked around and talked to some of the property owners, right? You want to incent them to make changes, like change the sign. We were talking with cooks automotive, and he might be interested in doing a sign. Like, great, if you did that well, you hopefully get you profiled in Wayland post, and you'd put them there. Like, you'd want to reward those companies and businesses that go out of their way to make improvements and highlight that Lloyd was in. He was good. He is interested. Yes, yes. He's good, yeah. So, yeah. So all this can virtuous cycle of getting some of that information out there. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, kind of changing topic. If that's okay. Just back to this. I don't know if there's a way like I'm thinking about explore meals, tax, explore rooms tax. And also, I don't know if it's on here anywhere like but getting gas. Station approval to have convenience stores, but things like that, those feel like we've kind of missed the deadline for town meeting this year. So I don't know if there's like, a way to say, Okay, this is something that's on our charter or agenda, whatever, but kind of like, not right now. Like, I don't know how we would break that down, if that's something for 25 or 2627 David Villari: Yep. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part of that is kind of, it's sort of in the route 20 master plan. It's buried in that. So we could kind of flush that out as a topic, because, again, we have that as a survey question, right? Didn't we, when we surveyed, and people were surprisingly amenable to that. David Villari: So the meals tax that exists already, it doesn't like point seven, five, I thought it did, Rebecca Stanizzi: doesn't I thought it did like the town meeting thing, right? It's something, yeah, there's we have to be past the Tom meeting. But yeah, most cities and really thought it did. I thought we had one, and I went looking for it, and I was like, and I was like, Oh, can't we use a little bit of that for, you know, doing, like, cleaning up the corridor or something. We don't have it. I'm going to be like, David Villari: super rude to go to chat for a minute. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, that's something we could maybe punt to FinCom to see if they Well, that's Rebecca Stanizzi: part of it, so we can talk through we still have this joint meeting, and I haven't heard from Phil, which is kind of strange, but that's one of the things on there. Is, you know, what are those things that we can be doing to boost our tax base? And with that, you're not going to get a lot of money. It's going to be maybe 100 grand, if you're lucky. But if you use those funds to then clean up the corridor or, you know, do something with it and magnify it instead of just having it, you know, go in the endless Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, probably new songs. Unknown: Chatgpt thinks we do too. Did we used to 75% I don't think so. I think so I'm going to see what it Rebecca Stanizzi: ask for this source. Can you do that? I'm finding more. I'll use this very finding more and more often it's on. It's like, yeah, me, it's kind of interesting. Anyway, all right, so we are 909, just to keep this going. So if you can fill out yours spearhead and the do, I'll get vows, we'll integrate it, kind of think it, and then I'll sort of rank it a little bit more to kind of the data will pop a little bit more. Yeah, if anything else you thinking of, anything else, Katie Noble Harris: things that we want to they're important, but they're just not timely right now, like the do it in the future. I think, Unknown: I think we need to wait for Jeff to fill out his thing, and then we circle back to that. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yes, yeah, we can kind of do that, and maybe we have sort of that bottom list of looking ahead to fiscal year 27 Yes, God yes. That's a kind of horrifying thought, but yeah,
David Villari: there were community banks didn't maybe touch base with separately because I couldn't score them, just because I didn't know enough about them. Yeah, yeah, we can Rebecca Stanizzi: chat about those a little bit. Yeah, we can do that. Okay, all right. So the upcoming Joint Finance Committee, EDC, I still have a bunch of notes, and I finally just put them all in one spot. So that's this, if you guys have this, give that one with the green stripes. There we go. So in a joint meeting with the FinCom, I tried to separate it into what are high impact things we can do, what are medium and what are low? Like, you can have a bunch of ideas, but, you know, like, the meals tax is not going to be moving the needle a whole lot unless you Super Target it. So you know the highest impact, and you know, you can be talking about this. These are some of the data. So this is sort of, you know, every FinCom loves a spreadsheet, right? So high impact things are encouraging town homes and revisiting MBTA communities encouraging town homes. This has the data. Our existing commercial tax base is 160 million. Alta Oxbow itself was 73 it just sold for 98 that gives you perspective. It's this high, big, splashy thing going on, but town homes are the quiet engine. We don't have to build more Alta oxbows, nor should we like it's that was in its place in time, and it solved 40 B and all that stuff, but town homes right now, our existing condominium townhouse base is three and a half times our commercial tax base. It dwarfs our commercial tax base. So, and this is sort of people are fine with them, right? They're used to them. They make sense. They're really land efficient. They're super low in services. Usually it's retirees, a lot of school kids, private roads, infrastructure. It's basically like the equivalent of commercial. The reason why towns and cities like commercial is because usually it's low services, high revenues. This is basically more so it's three and a half times a commercial tax base. This is our financial engine in this town. A few questions here. Unknown: So one is, is is it? Is it our financial engine, mostly because we don't have a lot of zoning for commercial in terms of, Rebecca Stanizzi: okay, yeah. I mean our commercial tax base is literally, it's 2.8% of our entire tax base, 2.8% that's Karen Kelly: it, because you have so little. Zoning for commercial Rebecca Stanizzi: use is that correct? Our commercial is not as dense as it could, but you're never, based on our limited areas, you're never going to suddenly right up the native mall, right? It's not Unknown: okay. So then, then, because I one of the things that was on my mind to discuss at this meeting was, you know, I just saw some more chatter online about, about, you know, what we need to do to get the financial engine moving in this town and people shouting all kinds of wrong information about and so I was like, we need to put something out about this. And so it's exactly that. And so I'm just thinking in my mind, and Katie, I'm happy to take this on, is putting together, like, I don't even know if it's an infographic or if it's like a PSA, like we've done before, like we did with the talent center, stuff about, here's what's really going on. But I do think it would be really valuable to kind of like, pull some pieces of some major facts about what is driving the engine, why it's driving the engine, and how we can think about Yeah, David Villari: you had that on Rebecca Stanizzi: the on the priorities, I think, yeah. So I put at the top, and this was actually an order was on the agenda, which is why it was at the top. But, yeah, but part of that is exactly that, because people don't necessarily understand. I mean, even looking at Town Center, even I was surprised looking at it, I was expecting a little bit more it literally, River Trail place, 42 units is worth the same as the entire rest of the town center plaza, yeah, yeah. Like, stop and think about that, three acres versus 21 acres. This is how much these are worth. I mean, literally, those are assessed at like a million dollars a piece. So it's huge. I mean, even that is, you know, worth $42 million right? So that's 42 across the way all to Oxbow. Huge, massive, what, like eight acres. That's 70, right? The town homes were really good at building expensive town homes. Yeah, we're good at that. Lean into it, land efficient, generate those tax revenue crisis, yeah, David Villari: if you could, if you could get the mahoneys to not do cascade and instead build like five, six town homes on there, whatever. Rebecca Stanizzi: We probably have more than that, because they're like a two, but yeah, I mean, it's ultimately for this size building that. And I would not be surprised if they came back and said, I just want to do town homes. I would not shock me in the slightest, because the same value building a lot less square footage in a very cost effective stick built way, you're going to get the same value, right? So, yeah, it's kind of like, how do we get people focused in that mindset? And then do we encourage zoning in that regard? Do we, you know, second of this is the MBTA communities. If we put MBTA community zoning, which is literally 15 units an acre, River Trail places, 12, it's not like you have to build like, apartment buildings with MBTA communities. It's 15. Is not that dense. It's basically close to townhomes. So because we have are so dense at Alta Oxbow, it averages out across the entire town for 15 you have to hit that threshold. So you know where Alta Oxbow is, 27 you could put 10 somewhere, which is what they did when they put the zoning over at mate stop, right? So that's River Trail place just within put that down David Villari: with the data you gave here, right? 21 acres for the 42 43 million. Right? Three acres, 41 and a half, that's $2 million an acre if you're doing commercial or $13.8 million per acre doing town homes. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yep, yep. So and then, you know, and then, you know, and that doesn't even count Wayland columns, which is also there, yeah, I don't know if that was originally part of the raythe It must have been part of the Raytheon site, but that's another 40 million. Which one Wayland? So River Trail is behind the common the town green, okay, it's right there. And then Wayland Commons is along 27 so that's the one. It's the kind of as you first turn in, off of 27 David Villari: it's right and left. And that makes sense, because that's bigger acreage they have. They have a Rebecca Stanizzi: lot of conservation. They're the where the housing is not that tight, but the site itself is literally 18 Acres, because there's a ton of green space around. David Villari: If we took like, a look at just on the map, the density of the housing, like, how many acres would that be if? Rebecca Stanizzi: I'd guess probably, like, five to seven. It's not quite as dense as River Trail place, but, David Villari: but still. So that's, let's call it like 38.3 divide by I'll go the high, high route seven. That's five and a half million dollars per acre instead of the two commercial Rebecca Stanizzi: Yep, yeah. And so then the column on the right is just taking our tax rate at the top and just putting into perspective what it means in terms of tax revenues. So, you know, we always, I always tout that all talks about is making about 1,000,001 a year in tax revenues. So our entire commercial tax base just makes two and a half million. It's just that you could, you could expand, you could double your commercial tax base, which will never happen, never, and you still are not going to make the dent that you could make with other things. So revisiting MBTA communities. So as we know, with MBTA communities right now, our 25 acre districts. Are you aware of MBTA communities? Do you know the nuts and bolts? Bad enough short story we have to do like 50 acres. You have to designate it for a minimum of 15 units an acre. Great. And you can average across your site. Some can be more dense. Some could be less right. One of the sites has to be a minimum of 25 acres. The second 25 acres has to be lots that are minimum size of five acres. So it can be five and 10 and 10. It can be 55555, you know, it's basically you can make a collection of those. So our 25 acre district that was designated is put at Mainstone. So it's in Colts way. It's a street that was already it's already built out as townhouse condominiums, right? And it has been for a while. So they put it there because if you plug it into the model at the state, which was our criteria, it says, Oh, this works. But you know that it will never, all those condominium owners won't get together collectively, sell a builder, tear them down, and then, you know, build something like, it'll never happen. And that honestly, was the thought process at the planning board when they were thinking through they wanted, they didn't want to create housing necessarily, they would have commentary, and they're like, We don't like this law, and we shouldn't have to comply with it, but we have to. So, you know, grumpy and they did it. But what that does center point might actually well, so the town center was put on there, right? However, there is a deed restriction with Raytheon right. And so build above the height that they currently have for the no, they cannot put additional residential on the site without Raytheon approval. It's a deed restriction so that one may be blocked logistically, right? So what do those mean? So you required acres, you have 50 acres. You have to do 15 years. So we should be doing 750 units. I'm going to check with Robert, I believe, with our plan, ours Rebecca Stanizzi: in the economic development bond bill is at like 896, if I'm following what our zoning was, that we approved. So I'll check that number. But right now, at Alta Oxbow, some of them comply with that right. We could count our non age restricted units. Two thirds are non age restricted. One is a senior building. So it leaves us 720 units left to be built. So at an average Alta value, just being low, using that as an apartment value, then it's $240 million worth of that was that $100,000 to look at MBTA communities, to re look development, or that's $3.7 million in tax revenues. So that is value within the MBTA communities. If it were all built out, will it be over time? I don't know, but the two pinch points one is our paper district. It's not buildable, and we are giving up $1.3 million in tax revenues forever, right?
at it and think, How can we look at it from an economic development perspective, to create more housing for us? This housing is worth money to us, right? Again, it's like, it's just, it's if we do, you know, like, single family homes are the the worst thing we can possibly do, because it's public roads. It's. Very expensive infrastructure, like all this stuff, eye services. Whereas doing this, and not necessarily in Alta, you might do something more dense that side of town, and do town homes somewhere else. So these are the numbers. I mean, this is where you're going to move the needle in terms of tax revenues. So the next page is medium impact. And this is where you start thinking about, Okay, what if we make our commercial districts better? What if we add square if we add square footage, or, what if we make the districts better, right? Unknown: And DEP, I know we talked about mixed use zoning. Town Center, route 20 is it is Town Center currently mixed use. I mean, there are obviously different parcels of land that have both residences on it and businesses on it is the business area of town center zone for mixed use
Rebecca Stanizzi: right now. It is because, as the MBTA communities before, it wasn't mostly because it followed the deed. So with the MBTA communities, they added the ability to mix in the residential but you're running up against the deed. Okay. Okay, good. And right now, in the route 20 corridor, you can't, but that's one of the questions for the route 20 master plan is to be able to add, is to be able to, you know, if you want to do a second or third floor, it could be office, it could be residential. Unknown: So, but is that off limits right now for Town Center? Because if you're just building on top of existing structures, Rebecca Stanizzi: the deed restriction is you can't do residential without their approval. Unknown: Is No, is no, so it's not zoned. Then for mixed where the commercial is, Rebecca Stanizzi: it's zoned. But the deed prohibits, Unknown: prohibit the property owner rules this in a pickle. A like, Rebecca Stanizzi: Yeah, we were hoping that, you know, Raytheon be a good corporate citizen Massachusetts housing, we just did the zoning. Won't you please come on. Unknown: And they're like, No. They're not even not breaking ground anywhere new. But they Rebecca Stanizzi: just, they're just like, from them, it's, it's a formerly contaminated site, so doing anything beyond what they're doing now just invites risk that additional contamination will be found. They're like, No. And that's, you know, that's in the DEP, so kind of you'd love to get beyond it, but you're not the property owner. You can't force them to do something. So again, do you put that zoning somewhere else? Unknown: So how would we like? Obviously, we got new zoning class passed last year. But when you're thinking about, um, most of the town is already zoned for residential. So then how, like, how do you go about, you know, like, what is the process by which pieces of land are identified to build town homes? And then, you know, like, what does that look like? Becky, like, what role do we play and make like, Rebecca Stanizzi: if the town really want to do it, we could work with certain property owners. The question is, is there land left in stone? Is there Right? Like, where are those pockets? Yeah, can you find those pockets? Identify them. Is this something that we want to encourage we have town land. So that's one of them on here is activate underutilized town land. We have 13 acres Orchard Lane. It's owned, yeah? Orchard Lane, I keep hearing about, yeah. So it's 13 acres by the schools. It's owned by the schools. Yeah. So it's 13 acres is too small for a school. It's kind of, there were playing fields that were suggested there, and like, heads exploded at the neighborhood, because nobody wants to have 50 million cars going in to their small roads. You know, what have? Town homes. Town homes are very different. It's very quiet. It's not as if you have screaming kids and you have 100 people descending on a playing field, you know, like, multiple times over a weekend or every afternoon, right? It's very different. You know, people understand it, right? And so he took that, and that's looking at this and, like, literally, what are the dollar values? You took five acres, you put MBTA community zoning on it for 1515, units. But you know what? We own the land. We can dictate how many units go there. We can dictate what it looks like, just like we did at Rivers Edge. So say that there's 12 units an acre. It's a little bit less dense than over there. You have 60 units. You probably get, you'd probably get over $100,000 per unit for land value. But there's going to be some infrastructure. There's no roads. You have to add something. So like at 80 that would get you almost $5 million so the school would get $5 million and then $60 million worth of condos would be built, which then generates a million dollars a Unknown: year. Essentially, it looks like the school district or the town sells the land to a developer to build town homes. But can they dictate what they're going to do with Rebecca Stanizzi: that land? River's Edge? Absolutely. If you're the property owner, just like Raytheon, it's terms of sale with terms of sale. So when we did rivers edge, we said, we wrote the zoning for them. We said, this is as of right? So they just had to submit their plans and go through the normal kind of code review sort of stuff. But we had design criteria, we had floor plans, we had height like we mapped out everything. And when we put it out to RFP, we said, give us your plans of what you're going to look like. So we even could pick between the bidders of what esthetic we liked. So that's why we got a really good product. When you're the property owner, you can do that, right? So pound Karen Kelly: makes five. A million dollars Rebecca Stanizzi: and then, and it generates a million dollars a year. Yeah, forward, right, yeah, yeah. Unknown: So, like, I'm curious about why this was not I think this did come up with MBTA housing. Like, where is the sticking point here? Is it still like, well, we might need that for schools. Or, like, where is the sticking point, inertia? David Villari: It's also, I mean, yeah, I'm looking at the map. Orchard Lane is, like, pretty small and, like, quaint and quiet residential right now, like, you're building 60 units, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah? But think of main stem is gonna there's a lot of units that you really don't perceive from the road, right? It's 13 acres, and you take five, you can absolutely set back from everybody else, like you can, you'll never really see it. It'll be just like main stone, like, it's just set back and, you know, it's like a little David Villari: road that goes I just wonder if your inertia rates are like, very different, you have an easier time building, which is, like, what Robert's very concerned about is it's hard to get us to do it, like, if that number goes down from 60 to like 20, is everyone just like, Yeah, let's go do it. Everyone sees the vision that it plays into MBTA and 40 B potentially, and all these other things, and then it's just done instead of multi year play out of Unknown: pushback, yes, although we sacrifice a lot of recurring revenue, like tax Rebecca Stanizzi: revenue, but it's not gonna be worth trade offs to be worth it coin for just 20 units. Unknown: Yeah, I agree. Like, you, if you're gonna do it, do it, yeah? And I think, I mean, I'm no expert, but, like, there is a way. I mean, like those town homes in town center are lovely. Rebecca Stanizzi: They're stunning on the outside, yeah? Like, I just think it's like an eyesore or anything David Villari: I'm calling it from like a bird in the hand burning your Bush type thing. It's like, I'd rather have it in the hand and get Unknown: having a million, then we'd still get pushed back. Either, either way, there's going to be a bill David Villari: Exactly. There's part of it too, though, is if you build those, like those town homes that are a little bit larger, maybe more attractive, the tax base of those homes goes up as well. So it's not just that they're valued at which per unit, 1 million, right? But if you have 60 on that acre, like, do we really think we get a million? Is that? Is that in line with the density? Rebecca Stanizzi: And that's what they're getting newer ones at Main stone, that's what they're getting at River Trail place. That's kind of no but is it 1,000,005 then, if you built like, no means, because at some point there is a price sensitivity to a town hall. If you have a million and a half to 2 million, you're gonna go buy a house, right? You're not gonna so it's kind of, that's the that sweet spot, right? Fair, yeah. So it's just kind of, this is, you know, if we can control it, we can make it worth our while. So that's we had lobbied for with MBTA. Communities put the zoning there, we can check the box, and then it's there, and then we can decide, as a town, what kind of density we want to have there, right? And then we did Unknown: your pushback that kind of kept Orchard Lane off the docket was Rebecca Stanizzi: actually being considered by the planning board, and then it just fell off. They found mainst like, Okay, we're done. Katie Noble Harris: So, yeah, slightly different angle on this. You ever give an incentive to a current property owner to put in a town home? I think that that's what people of Wayland. I'm just like remarking on, like, what I always seen see is the development. And I might be ignorant, but it feels to me like there might be a couple of properties in town that aren't being utilized. Can those Unknown: be and like a dwell, like in a ADU? ADU, yeah, yeah. Katie Noble Harris: Or maybe just, okay, this isn't the right type of building, but the the one with the facade, like, Could, could we entice that to that owner of the building? Hey, we'll give you this much money if you convert that building to be, well, I guess that wouldn't be a town home, but are there any existing buildings that could become town homes or or existing land that has stuff on it? Rebecca Stanizzi: So that's a question. So you'd kind of look at all the parcels in town with that lens and see, like what makes Katie Noble Harris: sense, but like an incentive also, given it's mostly just writing Rebecca Stanizzi: zoning that they can build, right? So remember they were talking, remember when we were doing the Self Storage, there was the guy who was trying to do the solar compact cluster, right? So there was eight acres up on Shaw drive. Basically, it's semi remote, right? But they wanted to do essentially cluster. We have a cluster development by law right now, but is extremely onerous. Really hard to go through it? Do you simplify that so more people will check that box? I think if you give them a path, they'll do it. But seeing the path that's in place right now is really hard. You literally have to design the site as if it's single family homes and then design it again with the cluster. So you compare the two and do like it's literally it's huge amount. So I think if you just streamline that, I think you could that would be enough incentive for those people who are willing to do it that they would Katie Noble Harris: do it. Just wonder if that feels like a little bit more palatable than building something totally new and or maybe both at the same time, both at the same time. No. So
Rebecca Stanizzi: anyways, the medium impact. Adding density commercial districts the planning board, when they were talking with the tax assessor, they were struggling. Well, what's worth more residential or office? Basically the same like it's so incrementally, not not material. Just add the square footage, right that adding the value to the commercial districts, that's where you're sort of elevating your game right now, route 20 corridor is not commanding higher rents because it looks like crap, but that will change over time. How do you make that quarter look better? Good news property owners and the town does better. Bad news makes rents more expensive. So there's it's a push and pull, but at the end of the day, you know that adding the value might be more impactful, and in fact, that may improve your tax basis 2.8% right? The rest of it, if you live in a town that's really attractive, those values go up, right? So it's almost like you're boosting it for the visual, but for the rest of everybody else to sort of float their votes, activate and under the site, town land and the last one of the meals tax in the room stats very small dollars. But you know, if they were leveraged, you might be able to get something out of them. But if you guys have other ideas, as we sort of massage this at this point, I have not heard back from Phil yet. I know they're probably diving into stuff. So it might be October at this point. David Villari: So for the meals, one you show, 10, 1215, is that just when the breakdown Rebecca Stanizzi: of what we get, if we Yeah, I'm guessing as to what we are. I mean, we do have coach bro, which breaks it. But, you know, I'd be curious to know what the each of them are getting on an annualized basis, is that David Villari: in like, fiscal reports, anywhere, in any report that Rebecca Stanizzi: so if any, you know, any restaurant property or just reports, rents, expenses, and David Villari: that's it. So you're not, no idea what the potential revenue here is based on. I mean, we could Rebecca Stanizzi: talk with Jeff, and Jeff could probably give us some kind of, yeah, yeah. But, you know, ultimately, in this range, you know, you're not talking it's not suddenly that we're going to find half a million dollars, right? David Villari: Because you look at it in like, I think I mentioned this on the survey too, is, is meals tax, or something like that. You could also play it by, you know, local districts too, and you say Town Center meals tax will go to feed upkeep, landscaping, fees, all these other things, looking at signage and like, maybe that's just Rebecca Stanizzi: the that would incent the restaurant owners to go along with it, if they reap the reward, like we all reap the rewards. And I think it's a really good virtuous cycle, as opposed to, we're just going to collect tax and we'll be on our Ma we're going to go take care of the schools for meals, tax. Thanks for that one. Yeah, exactly, harder, and it would annoy you every single time that you saw it on your bill, exactly. David Villari: But if you're like, oh, meals, tax, played, paid for the playground, we're happy, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So the rooms tax, we clearly don't have that many Airbnbs. This is what Jesse does, actually. So I know he has a multiple number of them, but it's a higher tax. You can do it up to 6% so the state charges 5.7 towns and cities can go up to 6% so as opposed to point seven 5% it adds up faster. But it's a question of what those revenues are, and is it okay? So we have 10 Airbnb and I'm guessing, yes, I'm guessing, I think when I looked at an airbn, you know, you can kind of see David Villari: that, because that's why I didn't give it a score, I was like, how worth it? Is it to chase all that. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yeah, yeah. So this just kind of gives the the dollar impact there. Interestingly, I would have expected the room stacked up in less, but if you do it at the max, you know, it's like, will it stop somebody from coming to Wayland? Probably not. You know, it's like, when you do air and B's vrbos anywhere else, it just gets tacked on at the end. It's one of those annoying fees, and they, Oh, we collect, collect revenue. So the 200 things, exactly, yeah, exactly, exactly. So this is, I'm going to send this because Phil was asking kind of a draft and what, what we were thinking, if anybody adding on to this questions, otherwise, we kind of revisit it next month and then plan to go and have a joint meeting with FinCom too. But that's sort of the how do we get high, medium, low, and thinking of, you know, what's what's worth the effort, right? You can do a lot of things, but at the end of the day, what's going to David Villari: actually, very obviously,
Unknown: can we put on the to do list, like putting something together to share online on this which, like I said, I'm happy Katie Noble Harris: to do. I think next meeting a bit, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, I think after, probably after the FinCom meeting, I think that would be a good time to get their feedback, too, and kind of see where they, you know, just to get that we, you know, EDC met jointly with the FinCom, and we just wanted to give you some highlights of that discussion. And you know, they may have some interesting tidbits for us that we don't, we don't know, we might want to publicize, but if you want to start thinking about it absolutely, and then, you know, to get it out after you share this job with me, yes, absolutely, yeah. So I'll circulate this. I didn't want to throw everything spreadsheet. It's a spreadsheet I can click and follow through, yeah, and you can play with numbers, yeah.
Katie Noble Harris: So that's yeah. David Villari: Okay, Rebecca Stanizzi: so we are at 937, so we spend a lot of time so zipping through some of the other stuff. So splash, slide, playground, you heard from Carol, right? Yeah, she David Villari: gave me, like, very informal call on what you wanted to do with. Was, was find out when we can get on that agenda. So I agreed for us to be on the October six. And the way she's going to do that is she's going to run through town manager and make sure that there weren't other agenda topics that he'd like to have above that one. And yeah, she was very kind. She gave, like, her own candid personal feedback too, on the project. Which was overall positive, right? Like, overall positive, but, like, coming from EDC, I think they're going to be looking for, like, a very clear breakdown of what is the benefit. And I think that's going to be tough is like, how do we quantify increasing foot traffic for a financial plan? Rebecca Stanizzi: I think you can find those metrics, yeah, I think places that have added them, yeah, I don't chat GPT, but, like, so there's David Villari: over six, like, that's the example dominant question we're gonna get. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, Catherine might be able to help with that too, based on the touch of truck data that she got from last year. David Villari: That's true about that. Yeah, yeah. She gets cell phone data from, like this. They come in, they're like, Oh, we can track people's cell phones and see where they came from. Katie Noble Harris: Who's they? A company that Catherine got. David Villari: Like, it's creepy. He said it Rebecca Stanizzi: was creepy. Got it. She's like, Oh, David Villari: yeah, come to this free trial. And it's, she's smart with it. I'm showing me how good it is before I buy it, and she doesn't ever buy it. It's good. That was fine to hear that around trying to find the right, right one. Yeah, right data. So I think that's going to be like the dominant How do we show that narrative and explain that there's a benefit she hadn't really caught on in the proposal where we, like recommended it could also be phased so I think we really want to highlight that, because for $25,000 I can pour a three inch slab of concrete, get a 16 by 16 posted beam pavilion down and throw some $250 Home Depot pick up picnic tables right? Like I can do that for 25 if someone tells you that 75 they're lying right, like that is a cheap, easy construct. You have to go through a procurement law, I think. Yeah, so that's But either way, procurement laws shouldn't make it keep it under five grand. It should make it more expensive. Oh, it does. And if it does, then that's part of the systemic problems that towns have, but that's fine, whatever. Yeah. So I looked at that, and I discussed that with her, and she was like, okay, yeah. Like, not everything needs to be a giant proposal that has to go through town meeting, and maybe we discuss that with them. Of like, how can we use shared streets, things like that, to play into this and make it happen faster. Yeah. And then I, she and I talked very informally, too, about the deed restrictions and LSL and stress the importance there of that. Rebecca Stanizzi: That's the LSP. LSP LSP is the environmental issues David Villari: licensed site. Professional, yeah, so that's the Raytheon has their own license site. Professional, that controls that site for their own internal liability for anything long term, right? So if you want to do anything on that land, they have to sign off. And we had the health department informally help us out with just looking at, like screening, and they did confirm that playground, even as simple as that would fall under to, like a fixed structure that would have to get signed off, approved by them. Yeah, so there's hurdles. Have we? Unknown: Okay? So then that me, it's like, is it? David Villari: Should we? I, you're going down the same road, I think. Is it worth it if it might not happen? And that's why she said, Let's not do touch a truck. Let's not do any outreach yet. Let's chat with them, make sure that Select Board wants to go forward with it. Then the first thing we're going to hit is the health department work, the LSP, aols, all that stuff, clear that hurdle, and if that's clear, then we just see what go forward. Unknown: I think that you're right that we need to keep it like, very like. This could be very simple, easy. Let's just, let's not get in the weeds of this meeting. Let's just talk about what like could be and like, but we still have this other huge hurdle of breakout in front of us. We just generally want to know if this life board understands, and like, to your point, like, what would be the economic since the EDC bringing it benefit of it, but I think, like, don't get in the weeds. Let's not Yeah, yeah. We tool right now? Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part I was talking with Tom Fay, not knowing that part of the discussion about touch a truck, and that is, mean, the environmental, environmental, right? So part of it is not being able to get some feedback at touch a truck, you're going to have every family I know. In the town there. So I was saying to Tom, could we come to select board meeting next Monday or two weeks after, which is the 29th and just five minutes on the agenda? And just say, will you please just let us survey people at touch a truck, because then we'll have the data to bring to you for that October meeting. Right? Who will they Karen Kelly: care about that David Villari: data? But only be two days a date. That's a lot to collect all that data. Unknown: We're better off sending if we're going to collect data editing, we're going to get more if we send an email instead of being a touch dog. Yeah, okay, I'm not saying I'd be there. I'm saying I've tried to collect data from people, and it's not that easy. Yeah, got to get aggressive Rebecca Stanizzi: and let's kind of email and such a truck at the same time. It gives us that excuse, right? Email is a must, yeah, oh, yeah, without a doubt, not such a pressing it's getting an email and and they're hearing it David Villari: truck. But the other thing I wasn't sure about is, like, because this is a plaza owned area, right? The foot traffic increase going to be for the plaza, for those businesses. How does that play into, like, what we receive back as a town? And I don't know that answer Unknown: at all. Not educated, like, right? Like, how much more money does each business like, David Villari: are we talking like 1% Rebecca Stanizzi: of their sales actually comes back as I don't know what the numbers are. It's just elevating the value of the plaza, right? So is that where the money is? Yeah, value, elevation, value in the real estate tax. Yeah, we don't have, like, a sales tax. We don't have a local like that. Mean, we have, well, we don't have meals tax. So, yeah, it's, it's just purely real estate values. David Villari: Okay, that's cool. So then I got to talk to Chris at ConCom, who we'd started those, like, very informal discussions with two the comments, the playground vendor. Oh, and they had that one Wrentham Plaza, and they put the playground on, and I bet I could find the before and after valuations with the playground, yeah. Like, that was that Unknown: as the that's the drive, yeah, yeah. Get us through the discussion. Okay, yeah, yeah. Katie Noble Harris: I wonder if Watertown has anything, because they just put in that new splash pad. Yeah, I'm
Rebecca Stanizzi: sure if you chat GPT, it'll pop up a bunch of stuff. David Villari: It's just whether that's fine sits or Yeah, the valuation difference in the surrounding Rebecca Stanizzi: area, part of it'd be interesting to know. At town center right now, typically in a commercial valuation, they'll look at your rents and then your expenses, right? But they'll look at your actual vacancy. So the question is, how much vacancy is baked in? And if you know part of it is filling vacant spaces, and that helps bring up the valuation, and then it's kind of floating the rents, the rents already high, right? But if you can get those last spaces filled, then that's that may be something we actually talk with the assessor. And so we have a David Villari: matter both ways. We say assessed value would go up in general, because you have, if you can build store, friends obsessed, and then two, you actually fill those properties. So assessed value also goes up for, yeah, that's definitely the goal. So I would, I think I'll request some assistance on putting that story together. But, yeah, okay, so, so, October 6. October 6, Katie Noble Harris: Monday, okay, in person for Unknown: you. I'll pop in, in person. Yeah, right here. So I won't be there. I'll be out of the country. Will you? Okay? Yeah, bummer. We'll prep you before,
Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, I mean, it's for them. You'll have to, it's not like they're suddenly going to dive into all the data, right? It's going to be very high level numbers, if we can, if you can, show that, you know, other properties have increased the value of that commercial tax base by 10% like, just gorilla math, like this is what it means, right? So now we know what the valuation is for the commercial it's Unknown: really just a nod to move forward. But it's not a nod of it's a very it's a non committal not that's all we're asking. Rebecca Stanizzi: It's just starting the process. Yes, yes, yes. And the other Katie Noble Harris: thing I know, a possible objection that was raised was the cost of, like, landscaping. And I think one thing that we could do is private fundraising, like, raise money to try and cover those costs. Rebecca Stanizzi: If we can find those precedents, find the precedents where they've done it. What's that David Villari: I said? I'll just move it in one that was part of the reason why I think we wanted to get with DPW and understand like they're the ones that do the maintenance facilities. Team is going to do the construction. So, like, those two inputs would have been really great to go into the Select Board meeting. But process wise, like, because we're just advisory to select Rebecca Stanizzi: board, yeah, just map out. This is, this is what we want to do, first steps, environmental, DEP, W, I could just, and then, then you just Katie Noble Harris: go and do it, yeah, that's something that's even in the new plaza owners lease, is that they mow the lawn for the playground,
Rebecca Stanizzi: or they already they do. I think they do.
Karen Kelly: Nothing has to mow the lawn over there. Unknown: But is it the town these goats that just come Rebecca Stanizzi: out good to know and get that information. So. David Villari: Of galaxy, or is it? Yeah, Zara people, okay, yeah. So I'll take a crack and I'll circulate when it can feedback. Okay, um, all right.
Rebecca Stanizzi: So quickly the other so the pre order pickup window outreach, we were talking about that before. So I think it's the information to the brokers. So you guys were trading something you wanted to compare with Jeff, who's not here. You guys want to kind of connect and then be able to send it out after next meeting. Katie Noble Harris: I redid it a little bit. I think I need Jeff's input on some of this stuff. I'm a little bit like that. Okay, got it? You're confused about some of it. Yeah. All right, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: And then the question, you know, can we post it even though nobody's going to our web page, maybe we can drive a little traffic to it, but it'd be great to get that posted on the town website somewhere. Katie Noble Harris: So I guess we'll call it outreach to brokers. Yeah.
Rebecca Stanizzi: Okay, so existing quarter conditions clean up. So Katie, do you want to update our stroll? Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, Becky, I took a stroll down Route 20 the other day. Beautiful morning. Rebecca Stanizzi: It was a beautiful when he came out. I heard everyone around with a piece of paper, and you're taking pictures, like, what are you doing? You guys actually walked down. We did. We walked the whole corridor. Oh, that's coming out and talking to us. And, yeah, imagine we had sidewalks. I know what a concept. David Villari: No, it's not very fun with the stroller. No, Katie Noble Harris: yeah. So we started kind of near Pelham Island and worked our way down. And yeah, had a bunch of business owners come up and inquire what we were doing, and had some great conversations. We made contacts with a few business owners that we just haven't been able to get their contact info for So Becky got that info and reached out to a few of those people. And I'd say it was like a really positive interaction that we had learned some Wayland history, and then we just took some pictures and wrote down some notes about some things that we think could be improved in the Rebecca Stanizzi: future. And I was just organizing that and then getting into our columns of zoning cleanup. And then, you know what? Zoning has to change, whether it's landscape or whatever, but, and then we also ran into the maple maple gate, maple tree, maple tree landscaping guy, Vinny. David Villari: So you know, I got his contact too. He's doing our loan. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part of what you see in that corridor are some property owners who just let their landscaping go, right? And so talking to the vet that, you know, woman who works there came out and talked to us, and their weeds are all overgrown, but the dogs like it, right? But clearly, they're not paying for landscaping, but it's expensive, right? For a landscaper to show up for this little, tiny plot, it's going to be expensive. So if we can talk with Vinny like, what if you had the whole corridor, or you had, you know, five or six that you just coming in one fell swoop, and it's really cost effective for the different people. Would you be willing, you know, talking to those people? Would you be willing to do that? And I think that could make a huge difference, even just the landscape.
David Villari: There you go, round two. Rebecca Stanizzi: So apologies to anybody watching. Hopefully you can still see it. We got cut off for some reason. But yeah, so the landscape part, it'd be great to kind of figure that out. He seems to be super motivated, so we're meeting with him next Tuesday. When we met with cook automotive, he came out. Was talking like, if you, if you work there, that sign, the gas sign, clearly needs to come down. But he's like, yeah, like, you want me to take it down? I'll take it down, but you do a new one. Oh, let's talk. We're like, oh, it'd be lovely to have a nice sign. And, you know, so we're gonna go and talk about so, yeah. David Villari: So I go to Lloyd all the time for our cars, so I'm happy to go down and talk to him right there. So if that makes it easier for you too, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So it'd be great if, you know, he could be our test case, and he could write a story about it in the post. They get some good PR, you know, like, this virtuous cycle of, oh, look, somebody did that. Oh, I'll do that. So, yeah. So he had shared by next time, and Danny David Villari: and I talked with he shared that he tried to get that Santander building as, like, office space and some training space, and it just couldn't work out because of, like, high, high, high rent prices and some other hurdles. Did he share that story with you guys too? No, but I'm sure we'll hear it, because that's also valuable. It's like, we're looking to expand, like, better commercial use of that area in a corridor, like, hey, Vinny, tell us what those problems were, and you kind of had that is like, tell us what the problems were, sex. Better understand them. Yeah. So he's he has one, and if you guys already have good contact, Rebecca Stanizzi: okay, talk to him. Next Tuesday. We'll be seeing him. We'll ask him. Okay, so we'll click that for next month, and then we can kind of look at it and then reach out from there to because we've been talking with Bill Sterling at DRB and Tom White and CPA, and then also mentioned it to Nate at the building department. So hopefully we can get that moving along with the goal of, can we get it cleaned up for next spring. It's next spring. Duncan will be opening, you know, ultimately, terrain will be opening in the in the summertime, so we get the whole corridor looking nice. That would route 20 Master Plan sidewalks, curb cut. I've been reaching out. I got approval to be able to do that, so I'm talking with Tom holder to get that moving along. So I. Him yesterday, just to find out if he's moving it along. But the next step is to do an RFP for that scope of services. So he had one couple that he was looking at, and I had sort of pulled out a chat GPT and had him do one. So it's, it's like state bidding, it's, it's, it's just, yeah, typical protocol. So hopefully we get that one moving, because the cash is there. We are have the ability to do it. And it's just, I know that Tom is really busy so, but he believes in it as a topic, so he lived through it in his town, and the difference that it made with the with the new curb cuts and sidewalks, so ribbon cuttings. So United volleyball is opening this weekend. But have they said? Unknown: So I have a back channel with them, yeah. So, you know, did you see my email Monday, where I CC to everyone and said, Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, like, it's happening this Saturday. So no, so Unknown: that's what I'm saying, like, so I think it's important for us to kind of own each of these businesses if we're having conversations with them, yeah, just so that all the communications so they they are doing it, like an open house for their current teams and stuff. Yeah, their current members this weekend. And then they had asked last week, hey, we're doing that. We they said, We're doing this next weekend. We would like to have the river coming the next week. Do you have any recommendations on, like, best time of day, or blah, blah, blah, and then I CC them in with the rest of the ribbon cutting crew, and said, Hey guys, great news. See you seeing BBC folks like they would like to get something started for next week. Michael, what is your availability? No one responded. So if Rebecca Stanizzi: it's Robert has said he's going to do it, then I would ping Anina directly and say, Anina, can you step in at least today? Unknown: I think, I think in general, we have to have another discussion as the ribbon cutting committee, because this is going to go on forever, and if the person running point is not available, we need to have a secondary person. It's just not reasonable. It's also not reasonable to cc new lessees in town, and have no one respond from the town. It's just not good enough. It's not okay, my opinion. So I'm upset about that, and I feel like Michael should be upset about that too. It's a terrible look for us. So moving forward with that, like, I'm not really sure what to do, I can reach back out to them and say, Hey, I'm sorry. No one's responded. Somebody's on vacation Rebecca Stanizzi: would stop by in Nina's office. Just went by and say, Can you at least just love in an email? Yeah, Robert usually hums these he's been out, but you know, it's on our radar. And you know, maybe she has thoughts as to certain day or time if he's she's been talking with Robert in the past, but just so they get something today, Unknown: she needs to be given permission to do so I may ask. I'll ask her to, yeah, I don't know that she will, because, well, Rebecca Stanizzi: she's supposed to be standing in for him this week, so okay, if nothing else, then the placeholder, he'll be back. Type of thing. We hear you like, I agree that, you know, it shouldn't just kind of fallen off into David Villari: that hole either. They look to open. I mean, I saw a bunch of people, so they are open, right? Rebecca Stanizzi: Yes. Like, a soft opening, Unknown: yeah, yeah. Like, very soft. But they're having, like, games. I don't know if they've actually she they said open house this weekend and then ribbon cutting next week. So they're definitely starting, I don't know, David Villari: after bike rides with my kids, like, we stop in, we get chocolate, chocolate therapy. And then there was, like, kids, like, flowing out of volleyball, like, a bunch of yay. Unknown: They also was interesting. When I was in there, they raised the ceilings. Yeah, they didn't, actually, so I take it back, they didn't actually raised the ceiling, they removed the ceiling. Yeah, yeah, to do this. But I walked in there, I was like, man, actually, there's some space up there. So anyway, they're very nice. They have a manager who's very responsive. They really want to be part of the community. David Villari: And it drove a lot of traffic, because each one of the kids that I saw was getting picked up in like, their own car, yeah, nobody I saw. I saw people like, then pulling over to the grocery store, right? And I was like, Oh, man. Like, if they just knew the kids could just walk five feet and go spend $5 at the chocolate store too, yeah? Like, that would be Yeah, but they'll figure that Rebecca Stanizzi: over time, hopefully, yes. Would be great if inside there was a map on the wall of the retailers around David Villari: we only have, like the plaza, only has one map that shows all the businesses, and that's outside, yeah, which is that little circle next to the back door of bagel table. That's the only location that I saw, yeah, could be better. But anyway, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, but it's not for them to be able to broadcast. That's why they're coming, because they like the fact there was so much around. So the question is, do you have, are they planning on doing a little map or, you know, we help them dudes get a David Villari: poster, stick it on the doors Exactly, exactly down the street. Unknown: You've done a good I know that somebody had forwarded us by retailer of the month boarding us emails. Hmm, and they, I remember there was one email where they said, like, oh, there's all these great retailers in the plaza, and, like, listed them out, yeah, but like to continue to do that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's keep moving. I need to jump, Katie Noble Harris: okay, the same lines, just like life text. I sent an email, and again, no response from the town, and they're having an opening this weekend. Unknown: So what did you send to them? To who, like, what was the message Katie Noble Harris: was I sent to Michael and the rest of our looks like they're having that they're opening this Saturday. Is there anyone from town that might be able to attend? Karen Kelly: Oh, that's so funny. I thought that he sent that about the Katie Noble Harris: UBC. No, no, it's for the life tax. Karen Kelly: Okay, sorry, I looked very late Katie Noble Harris: last night. Robert said, I'm happy to take the lead, but there's no right way, because he was he the one who forwarded that to us. Yes, okay, yes, just no follow up. So I'm Unknown: not like, we're not going to be involved in this and have this kind of behavior, like, it's not okay. So right, Rebecca Stanizzi: all right, Collins market, so I went to the zba hearing, so everybody's aware of the townhouse they do. So everybody loves it. They have no parking. And so I was talking with them after the fact, and I said, they want to do have you
seen their plans downstairs, half the floor is kind of dining area. And then upstairs, half the floor is sending real estate is still there, and then they have, like a space that would be for dinner or for events or whatever. So they have quite a few potential seats, and they have no official parking, so there's spaces out front. The discussion was, we're right now put just like around the corner on Pelham Island. Put signs that say max two hours, because right now, employees from those other buildings take those parking spots and park all day, and they do the same thing at the depot. So put signs there. Zba is like, I don't know if we can actually do that, but they could recommend to the town to do that, so at least get those spots flowing. But I talked with them offline after the fact, and they said, as we were standing in the parking lot, so the pediatricians just redid their parking lot, and it backs right up to the building. And I said, you guys should talk with them, because it's dead empty at night, and you need nights and weekends, and that's exactly when they're not there. So coordinate with them. Rent some parking it's good publicity for them, you know, just passing by their building, and then you can book events, because events, they'll need the parking right? They'll meet for dinner. You can't be schlepping that far away when it's February, right? It's lovely in June. But yeah, so with that, I mean, clearly the zba was trying to figure out how to approve it, but if they could at least do that, I think it'd be a slam dunk, and they'd be good to go. So that was the email. So I met with I met one of the proponents consultant, and yeah, I did not so Kirsten was too tied up with people who were talking after the fact. So that's why they were wanting to reach out, and we can kind of communicate with them. But I think if they can just do that little bit, the library is unwilling to share their parking. They are okay. David Villari: Library own the accessory town building as well. It's the rail Karen Kelly: trip. They do, yeah? It's owned by the town. Rebecca Stanizzi: It's, it's dedicated, yeah, and they have the whole lot, yeah. So they are unwilling to, because, I mean, so much gets abused right now with the bike trail, right? And, you know, here, people will walk, but to have it as official, Unknown: what do you think is the likelihood that she'll be able to, like space, share with pediatricians. I think if Rebecca Stanizzi: they could. I mean, pediatricians, you know, it's like they can share on their snow plowing bill. And, you know, it's like there's liability insurance. David Villari: It's just hard to see this be a problem because, like, parking is, if you have to walk 100 feet, it's a good thing for the town. We're trying to get foot traffic. That's interesting. It's like, you want to see more people using the street, slowing down, making sure crosswalks get used on the DEP W curve, but all that stuff. So it's like, don't let that barrier, Rebecca Stanizzi: I know. But the interesting thing so when we were walking around and me talking with silk veterinarian. They just bought the chiropractor building on the corner. Why? Because they wanted the parking spots. So silk is that stress for parking. They have maybe two spots. Say, I have in front there, and it is a pain in the neck, pain in the neck. So mean, clearly businesses like that, I don't want to say that they are, but they're the ones putting their employees over on 27 so if they can't park there, where are they going to go? You know, it's going to it's going to get tight, and in the morning it's incredibly congested. So I'm hoping a lot of people do walk, but it we've all seen Starbucks, right? So I'm of the mindset, let it go, and if it's too difficult for people to go in the morning, that's the business's problem. That was sort of the discussion. Like, at some point you're harming yourselves by not having that parking. And that's why I'm like, you know, it's like you can't use that parking during the day, but at least if you've had it when you really want to make your money and just find a liquor license, right? So, and I think so. So, yeah, so it's like, you'll want to have that parking. So are we out of liquor licenses? David Villari: Like, a half when you do? Can't sell wine in beer and tequila, just Rebecca Stanizzi: beer and wine. You know, not I remember. It was mentioned before, but I don't remember it in the zba app. Maybe it's just coffee for right now, but they're definitely doing dinner or an event. Oh, yeah. So if you have an event, you unless you bring your own Unknown: eat with terrain. There's place we have space for both, David Villari: I don't, yeah, but Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah. Long story short, like our zoning code is so wacky that they could, literally, if they squinted, probably approve the building without parking, but it doesn't pass the giggle test, right? So it's just our thing is so poorly written. It's just, it's bizarre. So yeah, they're just trying to figure out. So Tom, who's an architect, not an attorney is trying to figure out, so he needs to check with Town Council, and, you know, can they approve it without any, you know, dedicated parking? But when I was talking to them afterwards, if you can just get something, yeah, that's dedicated, everyone will just breathe a lot easier. During the day, you will get people off the bike path and walking and but you you know, at night, it's going to be different. So it's kind of you gotta and we all events is where you make your money. Yeah, that's David Villari: so you need a bike rack, yeah? Rebecca Stanizzi: So anyway, so there they were. Well prepared, well received. Had people speaking sport like nobody was really the only service the library said, We love the concept, don't use parking. So that was sort of the extent David Villari: surprising they would say that, because, like, if you're parking to go get a coffee and then you use the library lot, you're more likely to now be like, All right, kids, let's go in. Let's go read a book, and you'll use the library more. Unknown: Yeah, I don't know their volumes. Like, I don't know. Like, I Yeah, it's full Rebecca Stanizzi: often, okay, yeah, the library, the library, yeah, yep, it is. You can usually get a space, but it's, yeah, okay, so infographic, sorry, how much time do you guys have left? It is now 1005. Minutes. You have five minutes All right, so you have you looked at this revised or not, or Okay,
Katie Noble Harris: photo of sign, yeah, Yeah, okay.
Oh yes, sir.
David Villari: My that was my 90% Katie Noble Harris: I should just put 90% square footage. David Villari: It's worth clarifying, yeah, because I, I'm like, oh, that's b Yeah, if I look at it, I say square front, Rebecca Stanizzi: but it is, when you stop and think about it, like all the doctor's offices. I mean, everything is basically filled except that, you know, and like, you're always going to have one or two that are baking at any given time, but it's those, it's the kids strong, and it's the one across that makes it feel like he's David Villari: I just I walked in, like, I like, consciously went by and tried to count the number of doors, yeah, stickers on it, like, front doors. And it was like, six still, Rebecca Stanizzi: but the kid strong being all one space, or were you counting because it has multiple David Villari: doors? That's where I don't I don't have, like, their layout of the plaza. Is that available online? Just missed it disruption. It's just gonna call summit Rebecca Stanizzi: and just, oh, I have one. I said, I don't know if it's on. I don't know if they posted online, but yeah, I'll text Unknown: you out. Yeah, yep. Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: I think we should do so. So with the sale, I think data is good, the occupancy rate, the tax projections, those are always like the three hot buttons, just like small tweaks in language, but the bike path, so did you get a hold of Larry? Katie Noble Harris: Yes, it is that's correct. Rebecca Stanizzi: Well, you just say what they're paving. When are they paving? Katie Noble Harris: I can try and get more info from him, Rebecca Stanizzi: because one is like, what are they actually doing? The connector from Russell's to Sudbury that way. But then the question they're they're supposedly paving, what's now stoned us. That drives some people crazy. David Villari: That should be after. I think timing was, from what I saw. It's after they build the bridge, because they consider, you know, the stone dust area, it's writable, it's usable. Yeah, so they were going to do the bridge work and all that, and get the commitment and do paving here. But is it? DCR is Rebecca Stanizzi: doing it? I thought it was like a different pot of money or something. No, I don't know. Try to find out when, you know, hopefully when that's happening is that sort of the missing link you Unknown: and I were just chatting about, maybe we take any text feedback now and then she and I can work on this together for next meeting, just clean up some design and other stuff, and then have it ready to go. Okay, she's been doing a lot. I can help there with Rebecca Stanizzi: lot of stuff going on. Cool, alright. So get any comments. So guys, alright, that's alright. This is on the property of contact list. I clean that up. We're actually in pretty good shape. It's really it's looking great. I remember the colors on it. Yeah, I was asking you, do the colors mean anything was that just left over? Katie Noble Harris: You added a lot of info, the colors for were for like, information that I was missing. Okay, so I Rebecca Stanizzi: can kind of change around for that, just to highlight with the box we're missing. Yes, I didn't want to change it without I'm like, there's maybe some system here, I don't know, Katie Noble Harris: but yeah, you can change it, or I can change it whatever you want. Rebecca Stanizzi: Okay, all right, and then committee liaison updates, joint meeting with FinCom. Now it's probably gonna be October lanes. I did ping Jeff. I said, Any update on lab? And he's like, No, I was chastened. He's Jason. He was just so concerned about the last I think we need sort of a, yeah, he's to go by right, and talk with them. I think it was just too they didn't quite understand getting a phone call. Katie Noble Harris: Otherwise, I'm happy to go by. I'm at often at the high school for like, Val Rebecca Stanizzi: lives there too. So the question is, and I think before he stopped in, I don't know, Val is sort of the natural one. He lives around the corner type of thing. So I'll ping him and see if he can pick up that ball. And then the economic development bond bill we still don't have. So it could be researching other bond bills. It could be anywhere over five years. I'm like, Oh, nice, right? So you really plan on that? Yeah, and, oh, I should have taken off 14 West plane was supposed to come off. There is public forum next Monday. Next Monday. Do you think you'll go to that, or I probably will just to listen. But I think that I know the library would love to do a satellite there. I don't know if anybody's gonna be organized enough to do community center different from the library, but, and then it's a question of the office David Villari: uses, was that going forward is count use. That's what's Rebecca Stanizzi: being proposed. That's why they're doing this public forum. And so the question is, what within the town, like officials, town uses, or, yeah, yeah, because you can easily move, like the school department over, yeah, anything we can do to condense here, it's going to make it less expensive to build or rebuild, or whatever we're doing later Katie Noble Harris: notice, a bit of chatter about that building online, and I do wonder if, in the new near future, like maybe later this fall or winter, if it would be, depending on how it goes with the meeting, if it would be worthwhile to kind of put some numbers down for people to read an infographic. Yeah, because I think that there's some assumptions that maybe people are making about it, or why the town buildings, wow, that would be helpful for people to see the math down. Unknown: Yeah, yep. And like the cost per square footage to build the community center versus Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the client makes some useful sense. Yep. All right, whether that's us or not, I'm actually not sure, but yeah, Rebecca Stanizzi: so next month I'm coming back on the 10th so it's also a social Columbus Day weekend. So 17th, work for you guys. We're in October. I know, isn't it crazy? October 7, October 17, 830,
Katie Noble Harris: as of right now, David Villari: yes, yes.
Katie Noble Harris: Okay, easy.
Rebecca Stanizzi: Anything else before we adjourn? Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion, David, motion, second, second, Aaron, second, all in favor. Aye, four, oh, we are adjourned at 10:11am,
Katie Noble Harris: link. David, if you happen to David Villari: it'll take me, like, three days to find it, but I will, well, Rebecca Stanizzi: it's always at the end. So on the agenda, it's always the town planner report at the end that Yes. So, yes, yeah. So just deliver for Adina speaking. And you know, time of date, timestamp, Karen Kelly: wait till Monday to look right, David Vallari: just because it'll take, Rebecca Stanizzi: sometimes it takes a couple of days. Yeah, and it's funky right now. It's not an I don't think they switched it back. It's still, you go to wake him, usually you see the whole grid of meetings. But it's like, it's not working right now. I think they're posting directly to YouTube or something, I don't know, but go look at the top of the list, and you'll see them there. Marvel. David Villari: Yeah, I'll find at some point. And then when I do, I'll send a link today, and we can save Rebecca Stanizzi: Alright, so the EDC annual reports. So for newbies, if you've never seen, actually, the Wayland town report, it's like they publish a book pretty much every year, and every board and committee gives a report of what they did for the past year. So usually it's like they say to be about 1000 words. This is about 1100 but ultimately, so we're saying before I struggled to get it below 1000 like, Oh, it's just the guidelines. Okay, so it just kind of gives an update of the business that you did in the fiscal year. So that is July 120 24 through June 30 of 2025, which is the fiscal year. Karen Kelly: So they're a digital copy of it. Rebecca Stanizzi: There must be on the on the website. Yeah, it's usually there's like, stack of them sitting around somewhere, but, yeah, it's kind of interesting. Flip through a nail. Like everybody, every board and committee is reporting on what they did Unknown: so well. And that would be like, if we did have a digital copy, that would be a great thing to to like when you think about what is the use of AI and and not some are trying to listen to meetings where there's many people talking in person, and some are not, but to actually take something like this that's been approved by every single town board and committee in writing and then be able to push that out as a piece of content a podcast or Something like that, right? That's good point me to be a lot more accurate. Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: Probably really wonder how many people actually read it, but there's a lot of ton of useful information Katie Noble Harris: in it. Yeah. So is there a digital copy, or we're not sure, Rebecca Stanizzi: it must be posted on the website somewhere, okay, thank Interesting. Yeah, who would be the right person ask? Yep, yep. I'm sure if you look on the web, it's almost got a beat. I don't know if it's a state requirement, but it's really something they've they've done. Katie Noble Harris: So when does it usually release the whole Rebecca Stanizzi: Fay. It's always due by September 30, yep. And then, typically you see it within like, a month or two. So they just format everything and then just print it all out. It's literally like, you know, it's like a book like that, kind of interesting in your record of what the town did for eons and eons go back years. So were there any comments on this? Anything that didn't read, right? Anything I forgot,
Karen Kelly: anything to add
Katie Noble Harris: that was great. It was like, super informative. And Memory Lane, yeah, Unknown: we did do a lot, a lot good, great.
Rebecca Stanizzi: And then liaison, I put in. And slash Tom, because technically, as of the end of the fiscal year, we had Tom, but just and technically Nick was still our clerk as of the end of fiscal year 25 because that was the end of his term. But so it's literally that snapshot at the we had 30th 2025 Unknown: haven't shared a survey that we didn't hear. I'm sorry, no, Rebecca Stanizzi: and they, they limit you and what you can attach as visuals and attachments, things Unknown: like that. No, I don't mean to start. I mean, they know, okay, that you Rebecca Stanizzi: that we did the survey, the survey results are not Unknown: that's fine, okay, yeah, sorry, that's awesome.
Great. So we could, but no, I want to make sure that we that's mentioned in here. It is interesting. Katie Noble Harris: This is just a tiny note not to belabor anything. But like that, some of these things, like the economic development bond bill and then the tip funds, those are something that like are going to keep they haven't happened yet, and so we're going to have to keep, keep going, keep going with them to get the those big Rebecca Stanizzi: funds. It takes years. Yeah, yeah. So report that went so last year there was like a wrap up of October occupied and generating full tax revenues. So it's like, that snapshot, and then it was like, Oh, we have a new it's like, it literally just sold. But otherwise, you know, before it was just what you did on rivers. I mean, Riverside took us eight years, so it was a long time. So some are longer, some are shorter. All right, any other comments? David, you have anything that you want? David Villari: Just very nice. Minor edits to that one section. Small words, Rebecca Stanizzi: just on the non critical Yeah, to the splash pad. Okay, ground area. Does that say what you guys wanted to say? Is it like a fair capture as of June 30, you guys actually sent the memo? Oh, not until after Labor Day, right? Um, so we in there at all will be recommending, because we were definitely talking about it in June. Yeah, we started talking about it may is considering,
David Villari: is considering, considering is considering, and then maybe just help on wording to reduce some pieces of the funding discussions there CPA only is where I think we're worth exploring, like local fundraising and then Tom meeting budget as well, if needed. Yep, the town Rebecca Stanizzi: meeting budget, you'd be capital budget, and you're going to be down the totem pole, right? So you're not gonna be able to most likely either way, I think so. Saying CPA only might restrict us. Okay? So I'll take it only Yeah, David Villari: and then and amenities, I think would be the only other thing. Yeah, yeah.
Katie Noble Harris: I was interested in the on the last page, the EDC sponsored article for the historic facade of Sydney. I That's the first I've heard of that is, would we ever want to check back in on that, or is it just not worth it? Rebecca Stanizzi: So it came down to the prop. It's a private property. Yeah, right. And so it was an older gentleman and had health and family issues, and he just couldn't kind of get motivated enough to do it. So essentially, CPA said, you know, you've had it for three years. We've set aside those funds, but if you see, he's not going to use it. And so that's we said to him, like, get move it or lose it, right? And basically, let go, because he just couldn't, couldn't quite deal with it. So that was, that was very sad, because we know if the building is still owned by that same person, I have heard it might have been bought by the people next door, who, when he was saying that they might be interested, they were not interested in doing the historic so might be worth checking in. We can always go back to CPA, go back to town meeting, re request the funds, but that's sort of the discipline. They let it go for a little while, but at the end of the day, they don't want to hold on to those David Villari: funds forever. So yeah. So just Katie Noble Harris: curious, if it's worthwhile for us to even just know who the owner of that building is. Seems like a lot of work to try to get those funds. Maybe we don't want to focus our energy on but might just be worthwhile Rebecca Stanizzi: knowing it'd be easy. Now everybody knows what it was, and you know, sort of, oh, look, they're back and they're willing to do it, and here's their signed document. David Villari: Then it could probably be very pretty quick. So, Katie Noble Harris: 70 to 70. Okay, Rebecca Stanizzi: anything else?
Hearing? None? Do I hear a motion to approve. Katie Noble Harris: Motion to approve Unknown: a motion second, second and second. All in favor. Karen, Hi, Katie, hi, Becky. All right. Rebecca Stanizzi: So, so approved as amended. So this came in hot at the last minute that you EDC goals. So given that we did not get you guys have it right, given that we don't have Val's in here, and also given that Jeff didn't rank the major categories, but this just gives you kind of a data dump of where people are at and then also what people wanted to spearhead, and either that or work on so we can kind of digest it a little bit. I mean, even I admit it's really a chance to kind of really deep dive into the data. And kind of typically, what we do before is then rank them. You show where those priorities are based on where the numbers popped out. But you can kind of see, you know, the major categories. It's interesting to see where people were seeing what was important. And a lot of this is also, you know, important based on the time that you have, because it's just only, only so much time in the day. So but, David, I was interested. I think you had a note, and you had several notes on yours, but, like, you had 10s, like, very low on existing corridor cleanup tasks. But why was that? I forget it was because, David Villari: because it should come down to, like, other departments to do the enforcement right, not necessarily. EDC, if we're, if we're, our charter is to, that's what Rebecca Stanizzi: you were feeling like Design Review Board was on top of it, sort of thing. David Villari: Bill Sterling and the team seems to have been empowered by Select Board to, like, take some control on all those guidelines, all those zoning laws, for the facade rules, etc. So, I mean, okay, but that was Rebecca Stanizzi: why you but you saw it as important, which was a high number, but then it was, like a low number. Well, exactly reverse. David Villari: That's exactly reverse. That's exactly that was why I think it's still really important for like, the overall objective of the EDC, like it played into it, but it's the responsibilities of Rebecca Stanizzi: another team to execute well, part of it, as we've seen, like, it falls in between a bunch of teams, right? So Design Review Board, they look at proposals coming in, not necessarily looking backwards, right? And then building department, they're also looking at what's coming in, and not necessarily they can, but they're often not. And so it's like, how do we, how do we marshal those and get them pushed forward? David Villari: So, but, like, so, like, the code administration, I think Robert said very specifically, like, that's the planning board's job Rebecca Stanizzi: on the zoning side, yeah. So part of it is, I think cataloging, which is what Katie and I were doing, literally walking around. And, you know, what do we want to be notifying property owners about? And then it's a question of, who is it going out through? David Villari: Yep. So, okay, Katie Noble Harris: that's actually doing the logistics, like the actual grunt work of making it happen, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, or making and making sure that it happens in the different directions. So, yeah, David Villari: yeah, don't let my 10s, like, super skew it. Do this kind of, Do I understand the roles? Yeah,
Katie Noble Harris: this is just one note. I'm curious to Karen, like, what you think about this. I think I would have said, like a year ago, like, put a one as to, like, reaching out to new businesses. And I will admit I can do more work on that front, and I'm happy to do it, depending on our decisions on this, but I kind of feel like my opinions have changed after working on outreach to a few businesses. Just kind of feels like maybe it's not worth our while, and that if people do want to expand, they will be looking at Wayland, Unknown: and so you're talking about existing or new, Katie Noble Harris: new coming to Wayland. It feels like maybe it's just not worth our time and energy to be going out and making I mean, yeah, occasionally like trying to do our best. But I just, I don't know, after some of the experiences and meetings we've had, I'm it kind of feels like it's a lot of effort for not a lot of Unknown: I appreciate you on that, and also, like the brokers are supposed to be doing this, yeah, yeah. I just it feels like we're, I feel like I'm trying to insert myself into space. I don't know well, and so, you know? And then it's like, well, then what's the process? So we, and then who, like, also thinking through, like, Who do we reach out to at these chains? You know, I think that's the other we might be totally barking the wrong tree. David Villari: Like, I think Jeff said it too. It's like that's very much a broker to broker transaction that we should stay out of, in a way. And I think I did the same thing. I marked that as lower down for us, but then higher up, I marked things like us putting a database together that represents those businesses or those empty storefronts, so that it's easier to access and find out. So give that to brokers. We have the sale brokers, you know, with all that information, all of the, you know, the one mile, two mile, three mile info, like, right at their fingertips, yeah, and then maybe that makes it a little easier, Katie Noble Harris: yeah, it feels like a different thing, reaching out to brokers, rather than like individual businesses. Rebecca Stanizzi: We can, we can hit. 15 or 20 different groups with that one broker. So we need to make sure that the brokers are educated and then David Villari: and see the vision of, like, where everything's trying to go, because they're not seeing that on the day to day, Rebecca Stanizzi: right? Yeah. And most important that they can reach out and who to reach out to at the town, because as they walk in blindly, right? And then you want them to at least have that, yeah, that connection, that conduit, David Villari: I have the same thoughts, Katie Noble Harris: yeah. I mean, does doesn't it feel like we've kind of trying to, yeah? Karen Kelly: No, I, I totally agree with you. Rebecca Stanizzi: That comes down to the predilections of the property owner and what their goals are, and then the vendor and like, there's so many variables, it's just hard to Yeah. Unknown: You think about as like, a risk discussion too. Like, is a business owner going to trust someone just like, as a town representative? It's going to be great. Like that should be a best business risk evaluation that they're doing on the broker sides. I don't think it's necessarily bad. I don't think it looks bad for an economic development group To, but I don't, I think like, we might like, but again, we might reach out to one of five potential people in an org, right, that like might be the one responsible for something like this, and then it just could be a lot of wasted energy. That's my biggest fear. And we only have so much time and David Villari: exactly, Rebecca Stanizzi: and the test case, like, if there is an economic development director, then people know to go to them, like, it's just that natural magnet, because otherwise, if it's not, like, do I got a planning board, do I got a slick board? Like, what do I do? But if there's an ed director, that's where you go if you want to potentially locate so that's the beauty of having that position. And then they are then full time or part time, you know, focused on that, right? Katie Noble Harris: And they're probably tapped into the brokers and the Rebecca Stanizzi: this, over time, they'll get to know everybody who's kind of sniffing around town. Unknown: So it's interesting, we actually all aligned on that. Yeah, I couldn't go I never picked any number low. It's five. My brain only works on scales of one to five. David Villari: I started to fill it out, then I put 10 is like, we should work on that. Yeah? Then you're Rebecca Stanizzi: like, I know. David Vallari: So I did that backwards for a minute. Katie Noble Harris: Is it 10 correct? Rebecca Stanizzi: The lowest
Karen Kelly: trend lines? I think, you know, David Villari: I can always just wait her scores, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, yeah. I think my lowest was a seven. So yeah, I David Villari: did try to, like, focus on putting things as higher, like 10s and eights and stuff, just because there's, like, six of us, yeah. And that was it, yeah. It's like, I think everything here on this list is important in some way, shape or form. It's just, if we have to tackle something to make an impact, what do we do? That's right, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: And then, you know, most importantly off to the right is who's willing to lead an issue and who wants to work on it, kind of seeing some of this stuff. And again, that's why saying, like, pick multiples just because they're, you know, we may have a wealth of people want to work on a certain topic. So that kind of gives a good view of what people are interested in. Karen Kelly: slacker, Rebecca Stanizzi: I know, and Katie. So Katie didn't do it. It was off to the side. Like, I want to do nothing. Unknown: I missed you. Like, look at this. I like and like, David Villari: you can just everything. I put my name next to and Karen too. I think that's where Katie's been, because we tend to overlap very well.
Rebecca Stanizzi: So I think over the next, you know, before next month's meeting, it's a lot to digest right here, but you can kind of look at the data, think it through. You can insert, I'll send it, we'll kind of recirculate the file. Okay, we'll get valves in there, and then, you know, kind of digest. But particularly, okay, it's interesting knowing where we want to go in prior years that there were so many things thrown at the wall, like we're pretty focused in what we're doing now. It's a Karen point. You know, Karen, you didn't have anything lower than a five, right? So it's kind of before. When we were first doing it was, like, all over the map, and you have things that we had a scale of one to five, and it wasn't dense enough, like it didn't give you enough with somebody else's three or something like that. So that was where the 10 came from. But so we'll get Vals Katie, if you can input your your wanting to lead and wanting to participate in and then, yeah, just kind of digest it and what you're seeing and kind of natural teams. David Villari: May find a couple in the others. And I think I might be the only one that did that. Rebecca Stanizzi: So sorry. No, no, you that's exactly what you're supposed to do. Unknown: But I think the only, like, real, other one that's worth discussing, or it needs more detail around it, I'll send a memo, is that last one on the last page, business vacancy fees, Rebecca Stanizzi: is that if there's a vacant storefront, then they're gonna I David Villari: found, like, a really nice set of case studies on like Wellington, they brought it down from like 17 vacancies all the way to six in less than a year, because they started to impose vacancy fees, basically for empty storefronts. Rebecca Stanizzi: We talked about this a bit. Did? We did? We're so unusual. Friendly already. Yeah. Rated that. But. David Villari: But like, who's whose friend should we be? Are we the brokers friend, or are we the town representative? Rebecca Stanizzi: In town, we represent property owners and we are the town. That's good. Clarity, right? That's fine. So it's kind of easy, like in Arlington, things that are more dense, it's much easier. It is typically a small spot in a bigger building. Here, it's typically the whole building, or it's, you know, it's much more impactful. So for us to do a fee that is meaningful enough to get their attention in reverse, it's going to be painful enough that they're going to be really annoyed, right? So it's, you know, part of it was, you know, before it was Whole Foods, that was, that was the poster child, right? That it was just sitting there empty Santander, Bank of America. You kind of knew that something they were paying but you know, kind of our big gaps in our teeth are now kind of filling in, which is good, David Villari: but the math is always like, this is a problem with plazas. And like any large landlord corporation like the math always favors them to boost rents higher, which strangles small businesses out, right? Because they always want, if I have 10 storefronts, and they're like, Okay, I could charge $5,000 a month and have six, you know, tenants, instead of 10, I have $30,000 coming in per month. Or, you know, another landlord come in and under charge and have all 10 filled. But that problem there is that they'd have now four extra, you know, utility bills, water bills, maintenance fees for extra people to keep track of, make sure they're paying their rent like it's a lot more work for them. So there's like, a cost benefit to landlords keeping rent high, and if you de incentivize that, then you bring that more neutral. Unknown: I just worry that we're already, we already struggle to attract retailers. David Villari: But it's not the retailers we're attracting. The brokers own it, right? And the retailers because of the rates of rent. Like, if you talk to businesses in the plaza, a lot of them say the same thing. They're like, rents pretty high, you know? And rents high, and that's controlled by Zurich, or whoever. Right? Katie Noble Harris: Could it be, I'm thinking, not for small businesses? Could it be something that is for larger properties? Yeah, I don't know if that changes your feeling Unknown: about it. I mean, I don't know if we don't think it would discourage I mean, it isn't right. It's not an impact on the small business. It's an impact on the person who owns the building.
Katie Noble Harris: And that owner of the building would have to meet a threshold either their national chain or their Karen Kelly: problem is, though, that the whole foods Plaza was 80% full. Yeah, yeah, it was just dark leases. Katie Noble Harris: So, but I think, couldn't it affect something like David Vallari: empty storefronts would be the like criteria that Rebecca Stanizzi: as a landlord, you can't force your tenant to occupy the space, so I don't know. But if you, if you saw something that was a good summary of case studies, David Villari: well, they, I'll send it. I mean, I created the case study list and stuff. Okay, but there was another one that looked at like, beautification is the wrong word, but it was like, they didn't upkeep the property. So the old Bank of America site, with the lack of mowing for how many years, would have been something that got, like fined, and eventually the fines would have outweighed just paying someone to mow the lawn. And so you would have had a mow the lawn, right? So it's, it's doesn't need to be big to be an impact, right? And get what you want out of the town center Unknown: there, I think, does that fall under the design guidelines? Rebecca Stanizzi: Like the plant flowing doesn't. That's the thing, the maintenance, the initial design does, the meat doesn't. And that's one of the questions is, you know, we sit down with Nate the building inspector and say, What? What do we have the rights control? We're not, we're not like a homeowners association. You have to keep your grass mode and your flowers, right? It's just so we may not have that tool. Should we have that tool in our code? You know that David Villari: all that, it's a tool that other towns have found out how to use. Yeah, right? Rebecca Stanizzi: Useful to know for the next time. David Villari: Yeah, so I'll write it up. I mean, I know, like, I totally hear it. I knew anyway, so I could be enrolled. Unknown: No, I don't think there's a right or wrong here. And I think, like, again, it's like, if it's we would just need to thread the needle, because there are so many ways that even Santander, technically, they're, they have a lease right, they they're getting rent money every month right from that bank. So unless we, in my mind, if we were to do something, we would need to do something that would also thread the needle of penalizing people who a lot like, take offices, yeah, that just like, remain unoccupied for more than six months, or something like that. And I don't know we can do that legally, but in my mind, that would be a practical component. Rebecca Stanizzi: That's one where somebody's paying rent but not looking occupies, correct. The next is like a town center that one corner, this kitty corner from ex golf and across for our sway, the new staff that has been empty from the beginning. It's still gravel in there, like we can do something, right? David Villari: So, oh, I had a question on that, because it was in the infographic. We say 90% is that on square footage? Or number of storefronts? I couldn't square footage. That's on square footage? Yeah, it's like, because the supermarket's huge, yeah. So what could we look at that, fortunately, number maybe as as also, like, what's the storefront vacancy? Because that I'd be curious about, is that more like 60% because it feels more like 60 Rebecca Stanizzi: well, by the time you had the medical bill, they'll be pretty high. I mean, it's just like, you know, yeah, Town Center Plaza. I mean, you have two that are, they're, they're right at Alyssa, Andrew, like they're so prominent, if the old artists of the kids strong space and then that want to cross, everything else is, David Villari: I think, still, I think I counted six when I was there last week that are just empty, empty stores. Yeah, I Unknown: don't know. To Cara, well, like to Carl going to bagel table and David Villari: to card spaces. There was a place behind Takara too, as well. That's a dermatologist. It's a services space available and big, plastered, you might Rebecca Stanizzi: just, but that's for Takara. Yeah. Just, yeah, dermatologist. Couple hair around that David Villari: way, either way. Like, I was curious, because it doesn't always feel like 90 when you're down there and you talk to the storefront people, and they're, Unknown: they're saying the same thing. Do you think it's but I do think it is close to 90, like, I think it just feels, the thing is, like, there's a lot of things about the way that Plaza was designed. Like, when we've gone in and talked to business owners, they're like, You never see people here. And part of that is the design things behind the swift and so you have these little pathways, you know, it's almost like a little street in there, but like, there's, you know, there's a reason why all the new types of like shopping positive squares with parking in the middle, and if you're sitting outside of the restaurant, you can see all the other restaurants and people walking around. There's a sense of, like, there's activity here, and that is just, Katie Noble Harris: it's designed backwards, almost the building space, in Karen Kelly: our very professional opinion, Rebecca Stanizzi: interesting with the new property owner does with it? Yeah, they're good at this. Yeah, they'll understand this. They could change, Katie Noble Harris: change the businesses to incoming businesses to face. Rebecca Stanizzi: They could change incoming businesses. They could add additional square they could reconfigure. They could do whatever, I think there's still additional retail space that they could build. They just haven't, they haven't chosen builders. You're listening. So that'll be those discussions with the David Villari: property owner, the other others that I had added here on support Wayland businesses that section talk about like the ribbon cuttings and the Wayland post and like that could tie in nicely, too, for people that are just driving by and on 20 that don't get the Wayland post Sudbury people. What if you had, like, chocolate therapy on the Billboard, like, one month Unknown: and then so is this an existing billboard? David Villari: You're thinking it's the billboard right at the town center that the town uses, like, every now and then they're advertising like, oh, the planes are coming through, yeah. But like, you see that when you're sitting at the light, yeah? Like it's very visible, yeah? And I'm just wondering, like, could we one week a month, right? Or one week a quarter, or whatever, get a business on there, grow the same Wayland Post article, yeah, and just highlight it, yeah, and then do the same thing in South Wayland and see if we drive a little traffic. Yeah. Unknown: Are you thinking about the what the intersection of old con path and 126 David Villari: Yeah, I couldn't think though, if there was an outboard type thing already in Rebecca Stanizzi: use there, there is, there is, yeah, there's one there and there's one at 20 and 25 Katie Noble Harris: Why would we ever want to do a new one, like an additional one, kind of up, up a little further. Unknown: We do need, like in general, we need signs that are promoting the retail, the current retailers in town, in town center, yeah, yes, the signage, I mean, David Villari: that's, it's after the intersection on the road, yeah. And you can Unknown: even see what's up there. You can't turn you can't see what's up there. There's no sign ahead of time. Yeah, it's just, like, there's just so many basic things I don't know. Like, if there's anything else, like, I like this idea, and we have this, then we have this. The infrastructure is there, intersection there too. I think that could be a good place to start. David Villari: I mean, because if we're doing the work for the Wayland post articles or whatnot, then you just trip it down. Cater it. Put a picture on the map of where the business is. People can go get it Rebecca Stanizzi: well. Plus Katie, as we walked around and talked to some of the property owners, right? You want to incent them to make changes, like change the sign. We were talking with cooks automotive, and he might be interested in doing a sign. Like, great, if you did that well, you hopefully get you profiled in Wayland post, and you'd put them there. Like, you'd want to reward those companies and businesses that go out of their way to make improvements and highlight that Lloyd was in. He was good. He is interested. Yes, yes. He's good, yeah. So, yeah. So all this can virtuous cycle of getting some of that information out there. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, kind of changing topic. If that's okay. Just back to this. I don't know if there's a way like I'm thinking about explore meals, tax, explore rooms tax. And also, I don't know if it's on here anywhere like but getting gas. Station approval to have convenience stores, but things like that, those feel like we've kind of missed the deadline for town meeting this year. So I don't know if there's like, a way to say, Okay, this is something that's on our charter or agenda, whatever, but kind of like, not right now. Like, I don't know how we would break that down, if that's something for 25 or 2627 David Villari: Yep. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part of that is kind of, it's sort of in the route 20 master plan. It's buried in that. So we could kind of flush that out as a topic, because, again, we have that as a survey question, right? Didn't we, when we surveyed, and people were surprisingly amenable to that. David Villari: So the meals tax that exists already, it doesn't like point seven, five, I thought it did, Rebecca Stanizzi: doesn't I thought it did like the town meeting thing, right? It's something, yeah, there's we have to be past the Tom meeting. But yeah, most cities and really thought it did. I thought we had one, and I went looking for it, and I was like, and I was like, Oh, can't we use a little bit of that for, you know, doing, like, cleaning up the corridor or something. We don't have it. I'm going to be like, David Villari: super rude to go to chat for a minute. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, that's something we could maybe punt to FinCom to see if they Well, that's Rebecca Stanizzi: part of it, so we can talk through we still have this joint meeting, and I haven't heard from Phil, which is kind of strange, but that's one of the things on there. Is, you know, what are those things that we can be doing to boost our tax base? And with that, you're not going to get a lot of money. It's going to be maybe 100 grand, if you're lucky. But if you use those funds to then clean up the corridor or, you know, do something with it and magnify it instead of just having it, you know, go in the endless Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, probably new songs. Unknown: Chatgpt thinks we do too. Did we used to 75% I don't think so. I think so I'm going to see what it Rebecca Stanizzi: ask for this source. Can you do that? I'm finding more. I'll use this very finding more and more often it's on. It's like, yeah, me, it's kind of interesting. Anyway, all right, so we are 909, just to keep this going. So if you can fill out yours spearhead and the do, I'll get vows, we'll integrate it, kind of think it, and then I'll sort of rank it a little bit more to kind of the data will pop a little bit more. Yeah, if anything else you thinking of, anything else, Katie Noble Harris: things that we want to they're important, but they're just not timely right now, like the do it in the future. I think, Unknown: I think we need to wait for Jeff to fill out his thing, and then we circle back to that. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yes, yeah, we can kind of do that, and maybe we have sort of that bottom list of looking ahead to fiscal year 27 Yes, God yes. That's a kind of horrifying thought, but yeah,
David Villari: there were community banks didn't maybe touch base with separately because I couldn't score them, just because I didn't know enough about them. Yeah, yeah, we can Rebecca Stanizzi: chat about those a little bit. Yeah, we can do that. Okay, all right. So the upcoming Joint Finance Committee, EDC, I still have a bunch of notes, and I finally just put them all in one spot. So that's this, if you guys have this, give that one with the green stripes. There we go. So in a joint meeting with the FinCom, I tried to separate it into what are high impact things we can do, what are medium and what are low? Like, you can have a bunch of ideas, but, you know, like, the meals tax is not going to be moving the needle a whole lot unless you Super Target it. So you know the highest impact, and you know, you can be talking about this. These are some of the data. So this is sort of, you know, every FinCom loves a spreadsheet, right? So high impact things are encouraging town homes and revisiting MBTA communities encouraging town homes. This has the data. Our existing commercial tax base is 160 million. Alta Oxbow itself was 73 it just sold for 98 that gives you perspective. It's this high, big, splashy thing going on, but town homes are the quiet engine. We don't have to build more Alta oxbows, nor should we like it's that was in its place in time, and it solved 40 B and all that stuff, but town homes right now, our existing condominium townhouse base is three and a half times our commercial tax base. It dwarfs our commercial tax base. So, and this is sort of people are fine with them, right? They're used to them. They make sense. They're really land efficient. They're super low in services. Usually it's retirees, a lot of school kids, private roads, infrastructure. It's basically like the equivalent of commercial. The reason why towns and cities like commercial is because usually it's low services, high revenues. This is basically more so it's three and a half times a commercial tax base. This is our financial engine in this town. A few questions here. Unknown: So one is, is is it? Is it our financial engine, mostly because we don't have a lot of zoning for commercial in terms of, Rebecca Stanizzi: okay, yeah. I mean our commercial tax base is literally, it's 2.8% of our entire tax base, 2.8% that's Karen Kelly: it, because you have so little. Zoning for commercial Rebecca Stanizzi: use is that correct? Our commercial is not as dense as it could, but you're never, based on our limited areas, you're never going to suddenly right up the native mall, right? It's not Unknown: okay. So then, then, because I one of the things that was on my mind to discuss at this meeting was, you know, I just saw some more chatter online about, about, you know, what we need to do to get the financial engine moving in this town and people shouting all kinds of wrong information about and so I was like, we need to put something out about this. And so it's exactly that. And so I'm just thinking in my mind, and Katie, I'm happy to take this on, is putting together, like, I don't even know if it's an infographic or if it's like a PSA, like we've done before, like we did with the talent center, stuff about, here's what's really going on. But I do think it would be really valuable to kind of like, pull some pieces of some major facts about what is driving the engine, why it's driving the engine, and how we can think about Yeah, David Villari: you had that on Rebecca Stanizzi: the on the priorities, I think, yeah. So I put at the top, and this was actually an order was on the agenda, which is why it was at the top. But, yeah, but part of that is exactly that, because people don't necessarily understand. I mean, even looking at Town Center, even I was surprised looking at it, I was expecting a little bit more it literally, River Trail place, 42 units is worth the same as the entire rest of the town center plaza, yeah, yeah. Like, stop and think about that, three acres versus 21 acres. This is how much these are worth. I mean, literally, those are assessed at like a million dollars a piece. So it's huge. I mean, even that is, you know, worth $42 million right? So that's 42 across the way all to Oxbow. Huge, massive, what, like eight acres. That's 70, right? The town homes were really good at building expensive town homes. Yeah, we're good at that. Lean into it, land efficient, generate those tax revenue crisis, yeah, David Villari: if you could, if you could get the mahoneys to not do cascade and instead build like five, six town homes on there, whatever. Rebecca Stanizzi: We probably have more than that, because they're like a two, but yeah, I mean, it's ultimately for this size building that. And I would not be surprised if they came back and said, I just want to do town homes. I would not shock me in the slightest, because the same value building a lot less square footage in a very cost effective stick built way, you're going to get the same value, right? So, yeah, it's kind of like, how do we get people focused in that mindset? And then do we encourage zoning in that regard? Do we, you know, second of this is the MBTA communities. If we put MBTA community zoning, which is literally 15 units an acre, River Trail places, 12, it's not like you have to build like, apartment buildings with MBTA communities. It's 15. Is not that dense. It's basically close to townhomes. So because we have are so dense at Alta Oxbow, it averages out across the entire town for 15 you have to hit that threshold. So you know where Alta Oxbow is, 27 you could put 10 somewhere, which is what they did when they put the zoning over at mate stop, right? So that's River Trail place just within put that down David Villari: with the data you gave here, right? 21 acres for the 42 43 million. Right? Three acres, 41 and a half, that's $2 million an acre if you're doing commercial or $13.8 million per acre doing town homes. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yep, yep. So and then, you know, and then, you know, and that doesn't even count Wayland columns, which is also there, yeah, I don't know if that was originally part of the raythe It must have been part of the Raytheon site, but that's another 40 million. Which one Wayland? So River Trail is behind the common the town green, okay, it's right there. And then Wayland Commons is along 27 so that's the one. It's the kind of as you first turn in, off of 27 David Villari: it's right and left. And that makes sense, because that's bigger acreage they have. They have a Rebecca Stanizzi: lot of conservation. They're the where the housing is not that tight, but the site itself is literally 18 Acres, because there's a ton of green space around. David Villari: If we took like, a look at just on the map, the density of the housing, like, how many acres would that be if? Rebecca Stanizzi: I'd guess probably, like, five to seven. It's not quite as dense as River Trail place, but, David Villari: but still. So that's, let's call it like 38.3 divide by I'll go the high, high route seven. That's five and a half million dollars per acre instead of the two commercial Rebecca Stanizzi: Yep, yeah. And so then the column on the right is just taking our tax rate at the top and just putting into perspective what it means in terms of tax revenues. So, you know, we always, I always tout that all talks about is making about 1,000,001 a year in tax revenues. So our entire commercial tax base just makes two and a half million. It's just that you could, you could expand, you could double your commercial tax base, which will never happen, never, and you still are not going to make the dent that you could make with other things. So revisiting MBTA communities. So as we know, with MBTA communities right now, our 25 acre districts. Are you aware of MBTA communities? Do you know the nuts and bolts? Bad enough short story we have to do like 50 acres. You have to designate it for a minimum of 15 units an acre. Great. And you can average across your site. Some can be more dense. Some could be less right. One of the sites has to be a minimum of 25 acres. The second 25 acres has to be lots that are minimum size of five acres. So it can be five and 10 and 10. It can be 55555, you know, it's basically you can make a collection of those. So our 25 acre district that was designated is put at Mainstone. So it's in Colts way. It's a street that was already it's already built out as townhouse condominiums, right? And it has been for a while. So they put it there because if you plug it into the model at the state, which was our criteria, it says, Oh, this works. But you know that it will never, all those condominium owners won't get together collectively, sell a builder, tear them down, and then, you know, build something like, it'll never happen. And that honestly, was the thought process at the planning board when they were thinking through they wanted, they didn't want to create housing necessarily, they would have commentary, and they're like, We don't like this law, and we shouldn't have to comply with it, but we have to. So, you know, grumpy and they did it. But what that does center point might actually well, so the town center was put on there, right? However, there is a deed restriction with Raytheon right. And so build above the height that they currently have for the no, they cannot put additional residential on the site without Raytheon approval. It's a deed restriction so that one may be blocked logistically, right? So what do those mean? So you required acres, you have 50 acres. You have to do 15 years. So we should be doing 750 units. I'm going to check with Robert, I believe, with our plan, ours Rebecca Stanizzi: in the economic development bond bill is at like 896, if I'm following what our zoning was, that we approved. So I'll check that number. But right now, at Alta Oxbow, some of them comply with that right. We could count our non age restricted units. Two thirds are non age restricted. One is a senior building. So it leaves us 720 units left to be built. So at an average Alta value, just being low, using that as an apartment value, then it's $240 million worth of that was that $100,000 to look at MBTA communities, to re look development, or that's $3.7 million in tax revenues. So that is value within the MBTA communities. If it were all built out, will it be over time? I don't know, but the two pinch points one is our paper district. It's not buildable, and we are giving up $1.3 million in tax revenues forever, right?
at it and think, How can we look at it from an economic development perspective, to create more housing for us? This housing is worth money to us, right? Again, it's like, it's just, it's if we do, you know, like, single family homes are the the worst thing we can possibly do, because it's public roads. It's. Very expensive infrastructure, like all this stuff, eye services. Whereas doing this, and not necessarily in Alta, you might do something more dense that side of town, and do town homes somewhere else. So these are the numbers. I mean, this is where you're going to move the needle in terms of tax revenues. So the next page is medium impact. And this is where you start thinking about, Okay, what if we make our commercial districts better? What if we add square if we add square footage, or, what if we make the districts better, right? Unknown: And DEP, I know we talked about mixed use zoning. Town Center, route 20 is it is Town Center currently mixed use. I mean, there are obviously different parcels of land that have both residences on it and businesses on it is the business area of town center zone for mixed use
Rebecca Stanizzi: right now. It is because, as the MBTA communities before, it wasn't mostly because it followed the deed. So with the MBTA communities, they added the ability to mix in the residential but you're running up against the deed. Okay. Okay, good. And right now, in the route 20 corridor, you can't, but that's one of the questions for the route 20 master plan is to be able to add, is to be able to, you know, if you want to do a second or third floor, it could be office, it could be residential. Unknown: So, but is that off limits right now for Town Center? Because if you're just building on top of existing structures, Rebecca Stanizzi: the deed restriction is you can't do residential without their approval. Unknown: Is No, is no, so it's not zoned. Then for mixed where the commercial is, Rebecca Stanizzi: it's zoned. But the deed prohibits, Unknown: prohibit the property owner rules this in a pickle. A like, Rebecca Stanizzi: Yeah, we were hoping that, you know, Raytheon be a good corporate citizen Massachusetts housing, we just did the zoning. Won't you please come on. Unknown: And they're like, No. They're not even not breaking ground anywhere new. But they Rebecca Stanizzi: just, they're just like, from them, it's, it's a formerly contaminated site, so doing anything beyond what they're doing now just invites risk that additional contamination will be found. They're like, No. And that's, you know, that's in the DEP, so kind of you'd love to get beyond it, but you're not the property owner. You can't force them to do something. So again, do you put that zoning somewhere else? Unknown: So how would we like? Obviously, we got new zoning class passed last year. But when you're thinking about, um, most of the town is already zoned for residential. So then how, like, how do you go about, you know, like, what is the process by which pieces of land are identified to build town homes? And then, you know, like, what does that look like? Becky, like, what role do we play and make like, Rebecca Stanizzi: if the town really want to do it, we could work with certain property owners. The question is, is there land left in stone? Is there Right? Like, where are those pockets? Yeah, can you find those pockets? Identify them. Is this something that we want to encourage we have town land. So that's one of them on here is activate underutilized town land. We have 13 acres Orchard Lane. It's owned, yeah? Orchard Lane, I keep hearing about, yeah. So it's 13 acres by the schools. It's owned by the schools. Yeah. So it's 13 acres is too small for a school. It's kind of, there were playing fields that were suggested there, and like, heads exploded at the neighborhood, because nobody wants to have 50 million cars going in to their small roads. You know, what have? Town homes. Town homes are very different. It's very quiet. It's not as if you have screaming kids and you have 100 people descending on a playing field, you know, like, multiple times over a weekend or every afternoon, right? It's very different. You know, people understand it, right? And so he took that, and that's looking at this and, like, literally, what are the dollar values? You took five acres, you put MBTA community zoning on it for 1515, units. But you know what? We own the land. We can dictate how many units go there. We can dictate what it looks like, just like we did at Rivers Edge. So say that there's 12 units an acre. It's a little bit less dense than over there. You have 60 units. You probably get, you'd probably get over $100,000 per unit for land value. But there's going to be some infrastructure. There's no roads. You have to add something. So like at 80 that would get you almost $5 million so the school would get $5 million and then $60 million worth of condos would be built, which then generates a million dollars a Unknown: year. Essentially, it looks like the school district or the town sells the land to a developer to build town homes. But can they dictate what they're going to do with Rebecca Stanizzi: that land? River's Edge? Absolutely. If you're the property owner, just like Raytheon, it's terms of sale with terms of sale. So when we did rivers edge, we said, we wrote the zoning for them. We said, this is as of right? So they just had to submit their plans and go through the normal kind of code review sort of stuff. But we had design criteria, we had floor plans, we had height like we mapped out everything. And when we put it out to RFP, we said, give us your plans of what you're going to look like. So we even could pick between the bidders of what esthetic we liked. So that's why we got a really good product. When you're the property owner, you can do that, right? So pound Karen Kelly: makes five. A million dollars Rebecca Stanizzi: and then, and it generates a million dollars a year. Yeah, forward, right, yeah, yeah. Unknown: So, like, I'm curious about why this was not I think this did come up with MBTA housing. Like, where is the sticking point here? Is it still like, well, we might need that for schools. Or, like, where is the sticking point, inertia? David Villari: It's also, I mean, yeah, I'm looking at the map. Orchard Lane is, like, pretty small and, like, quaint and quiet residential right now, like, you're building 60 units, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah? But think of main stem is gonna there's a lot of units that you really don't perceive from the road, right? It's 13 acres, and you take five, you can absolutely set back from everybody else, like you can, you'll never really see it. It'll be just like main stone, like, it's just set back and, you know, it's like a little David Villari: road that goes I just wonder if your inertia rates are like, very different, you have an easier time building, which is, like, what Robert's very concerned about is it's hard to get us to do it, like, if that number goes down from 60 to like 20, is everyone just like, Yeah, let's go do it. Everyone sees the vision that it plays into MBTA and 40 B potentially, and all these other things, and then it's just done instead of multi year play out of Unknown: pushback, yes, although we sacrifice a lot of recurring revenue, like tax Rebecca Stanizzi: revenue, but it's not gonna be worth trade offs to be worth it coin for just 20 units. Unknown: Yeah, I agree. Like, you, if you're gonna do it, do it, yeah? And I think, I mean, I'm no expert, but, like, there is a way. I mean, like those town homes in town center are lovely. Rebecca Stanizzi: They're stunning on the outside, yeah? Like, I just think it's like an eyesore or anything David Villari: I'm calling it from like a bird in the hand burning your Bush type thing. It's like, I'd rather have it in the hand and get Unknown: having a million, then we'd still get pushed back. Either, either way, there's going to be a bill David Villari: Exactly. There's part of it too, though, is if you build those, like those town homes that are a little bit larger, maybe more attractive, the tax base of those homes goes up as well. So it's not just that they're valued at which per unit, 1 million, right? But if you have 60 on that acre, like, do we really think we get a million? Is that? Is that in line with the density? Rebecca Stanizzi: And that's what they're getting newer ones at Main stone, that's what they're getting at River Trail place. That's kind of no but is it 1,000,005 then, if you built like, no means, because at some point there is a price sensitivity to a town hall. If you have a million and a half to 2 million, you're gonna go buy a house, right? You're not gonna so it's kind of, that's the that sweet spot, right? Fair, yeah. So it's just kind of, this is, you know, if we can control it, we can make it worth our while. So that's we had lobbied for with MBTA. Communities put the zoning there, we can check the box, and then it's there, and then we can decide, as a town, what kind of density we want to have there, right? And then we did Unknown: your pushback that kind of kept Orchard Lane off the docket was Rebecca Stanizzi: actually being considered by the planning board, and then it just fell off. They found mainst like, Okay, we're done. Katie Noble Harris: So, yeah, slightly different angle on this. You ever give an incentive to a current property owner to put in a town home? I think that that's what people of Wayland. I'm just like remarking on, like, what I always seen see is the development. And I might be ignorant, but it feels to me like there might be a couple of properties in town that aren't being utilized. Can those Unknown: be and like a dwell, like in a ADU? ADU, yeah, yeah. Katie Noble Harris: Or maybe just, okay, this isn't the right type of building, but the the one with the facade, like, Could, could we entice that to that owner of the building? Hey, we'll give you this much money if you convert that building to be, well, I guess that wouldn't be a town home, but are there any existing buildings that could become town homes or or existing land that has stuff on it? Rebecca Stanizzi: So that's a question. So you'd kind of look at all the parcels in town with that lens and see, like what makes Katie Noble Harris: sense, but like an incentive also, given it's mostly just writing Rebecca Stanizzi: zoning that they can build, right? So remember they were talking, remember when we were doing the Self Storage, there was the guy who was trying to do the solar compact cluster, right? So there was eight acres up on Shaw drive. Basically, it's semi remote, right? But they wanted to do essentially cluster. We have a cluster development by law right now, but is extremely onerous. Really hard to go through it? Do you simplify that so more people will check that box? I think if you give them a path, they'll do it. But seeing the path that's in place right now is really hard. You literally have to design the site as if it's single family homes and then design it again with the cluster. So you compare the two and do like it's literally it's huge amount. So I think if you just streamline that, I think you could that would be enough incentive for those people who are willing to do it that they would Katie Noble Harris: do it. Just wonder if that feels like a little bit more palatable than building something totally new and or maybe both at the same time, both at the same time. No. So
Rebecca Stanizzi: anyways, the medium impact. Adding density commercial districts the planning board, when they were talking with the tax assessor, they were struggling. Well, what's worth more residential or office? Basically the same like it's so incrementally, not not material. Just add the square footage, right that adding the value to the commercial districts, that's where you're sort of elevating your game right now, route 20 corridor is not commanding higher rents because it looks like crap, but that will change over time. How do you make that quarter look better? Good news property owners and the town does better. Bad news makes rents more expensive. So there's it's a push and pull, but at the end of the day, you know that adding the value might be more impactful, and in fact, that may improve your tax basis 2.8% right? The rest of it, if you live in a town that's really attractive, those values go up, right? So it's almost like you're boosting it for the visual, but for the rest of everybody else to sort of float their votes, activate and under the site, town land and the last one of the meals tax in the room stats very small dollars. But you know, if they were leveraged, you might be able to get something out of them. But if you guys have other ideas, as we sort of massage this at this point, I have not heard back from Phil yet. I know they're probably diving into stuff. So it might be October at this point. David Villari: So for the meals, one you show, 10, 1215, is that just when the breakdown Rebecca Stanizzi: of what we get, if we Yeah, I'm guessing as to what we are. I mean, we do have coach bro, which breaks it. But, you know, I'd be curious to know what the each of them are getting on an annualized basis, is that David Villari: in like, fiscal reports, anywhere, in any report that Rebecca Stanizzi: so if any, you know, any restaurant property or just reports, rents, expenses, and David Villari: that's it. So you're not, no idea what the potential revenue here is based on. I mean, we could Rebecca Stanizzi: talk with Jeff, and Jeff could probably give us some kind of, yeah, yeah. But, you know, ultimately, in this range, you know, you're not talking it's not suddenly that we're going to find half a million dollars, right? David Villari: Because you look at it in like, I think I mentioned this on the survey too, is, is meals tax, or something like that. You could also play it by, you know, local districts too, and you say Town Center meals tax will go to feed upkeep, landscaping, fees, all these other things, looking at signage and like, maybe that's just Rebecca Stanizzi: the that would incent the restaurant owners to go along with it, if they reap the reward, like we all reap the rewards. And I think it's a really good virtuous cycle, as opposed to, we're just going to collect tax and we'll be on our Ma we're going to go take care of the schools for meals, tax. Thanks for that one. Yeah, exactly, harder, and it would annoy you every single time that you saw it on your bill, exactly. David Villari: But if you're like, oh, meals, tax, played, paid for the playground, we're happy, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So the rooms tax, we clearly don't have that many Airbnbs. This is what Jesse does, actually. So I know he has a multiple number of them, but it's a higher tax. You can do it up to 6% so the state charges 5.7 towns and cities can go up to 6% so as opposed to point seven 5% it adds up faster. But it's a question of what those revenues are, and is it okay? So we have 10 Airbnb and I'm guessing, yes, I'm guessing, I think when I looked at an airbn, you know, you can kind of see David Villari: that, because that's why I didn't give it a score, I was like, how worth it? Is it to chase all that. Rebecca Stanizzi: Yeah, yeah. So this just kind of gives the the dollar impact there. Interestingly, I would have expected the room stacked up in less, but if you do it at the max, you know, it's like, will it stop somebody from coming to Wayland? Probably not. You know, it's like, when you do air and B's vrbos anywhere else, it just gets tacked on at the end. It's one of those annoying fees, and they, Oh, we collect, collect revenue. So the 200 things, exactly, yeah, exactly, exactly. So this is, I'm going to send this because Phil was asking kind of a draft and what, what we were thinking, if anybody adding on to this questions, otherwise, we kind of revisit it next month and then plan to go and have a joint meeting with FinCom too. But that's sort of the how do we get high, medium, low, and thinking of, you know, what's what's worth the effort, right? You can do a lot of things, but at the end of the day, what's going to David Villari: actually, very obviously,
Unknown: can we put on the to do list, like putting something together to share online on this which, like I said, I'm happy Katie Noble Harris: to do. I think next meeting a bit, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, I think after, probably after the FinCom meeting, I think that would be a good time to get their feedback, too, and kind of see where they, you know, just to get that we, you know, EDC met jointly with the FinCom, and we just wanted to give you some highlights of that discussion. And you know, they may have some interesting tidbits for us that we don't, we don't know, we might want to publicize, but if you want to start thinking about it absolutely, and then, you know, to get it out after you share this job with me, yes, absolutely, yeah. So I'll circulate this. I didn't want to throw everything spreadsheet. It's a spreadsheet I can click and follow through, yeah, and you can play with numbers, yeah.
Katie Noble Harris: So that's yeah. David Villari: Okay, Rebecca Stanizzi: so we are at 937, so we spend a lot of time so zipping through some of the other stuff. So splash, slide, playground, you heard from Carol, right? Yeah, she David Villari: gave me, like, very informal call on what you wanted to do with. Was, was find out when we can get on that agenda. So I agreed for us to be on the October six. And the way she's going to do that is she's going to run through town manager and make sure that there weren't other agenda topics that he'd like to have above that one. And yeah, she was very kind. She gave, like, her own candid personal feedback too, on the project. Which was overall positive, right? Like, overall positive, but, like, coming from EDC, I think they're going to be looking for, like, a very clear breakdown of what is the benefit. And I think that's going to be tough is like, how do we quantify increasing foot traffic for a financial plan? Rebecca Stanizzi: I think you can find those metrics, yeah, I think places that have added them, yeah, I don't chat GPT, but, like, so there's David Villari: over six, like, that's the example dominant question we're gonna get. Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, Catherine might be able to help with that too, based on the touch of truck data that she got from last year. David Villari: That's true about that. Yeah, yeah. She gets cell phone data from, like this. They come in, they're like, Oh, we can track people's cell phones and see where they came from. Katie Noble Harris: Who's they? A company that Catherine got. David Villari: Like, it's creepy. He said it Rebecca Stanizzi: was creepy. Got it. She's like, Oh, David Villari: yeah, come to this free trial. And it's, she's smart with it. I'm showing me how good it is before I buy it, and she doesn't ever buy it. It's good. That was fine to hear that around trying to find the right, right one. Yeah, right data. So I think that's going to be like the dominant How do we show that narrative and explain that there's a benefit she hadn't really caught on in the proposal where we, like recommended it could also be phased so I think we really want to highlight that, because for $25,000 I can pour a three inch slab of concrete, get a 16 by 16 posted beam pavilion down and throw some $250 Home Depot pick up picnic tables right? Like I can do that for 25 if someone tells you that 75 they're lying right, like that is a cheap, easy construct. You have to go through a procurement law, I think. Yeah, so that's But either way, procurement laws shouldn't make it keep it under five grand. It should make it more expensive. Oh, it does. And if it does, then that's part of the systemic problems that towns have, but that's fine, whatever. Yeah. So I looked at that, and I discussed that with her, and she was like, okay, yeah. Like, not everything needs to be a giant proposal that has to go through town meeting, and maybe we discuss that with them. Of like, how can we use shared streets, things like that, to play into this and make it happen faster. Yeah. And then I, she and I talked very informally, too, about the deed restrictions and LSL and stress the importance there of that. Rebecca Stanizzi: That's the LSP. LSP LSP is the environmental issues David Villari: licensed site. Professional, yeah, so that's the Raytheon has their own license site. Professional, that controls that site for their own internal liability for anything long term, right? So if you want to do anything on that land, they have to sign off. And we had the health department informally help us out with just looking at, like screening, and they did confirm that playground, even as simple as that would fall under to, like a fixed structure that would have to get signed off, approved by them. Yeah, so there's hurdles. Have we? Unknown: Okay? So then that me, it's like, is it? David Villari: Should we? I, you're going down the same road, I think. Is it worth it if it might not happen? And that's why she said, Let's not do touch a truck. Let's not do any outreach yet. Let's chat with them, make sure that Select Board wants to go forward with it. Then the first thing we're going to hit is the health department work, the LSP, aols, all that stuff, clear that hurdle, and if that's clear, then we just see what go forward. Unknown: I think that you're right that we need to keep it like, very like. This could be very simple, easy. Let's just, let's not get in the weeds of this meeting. Let's just talk about what like could be and like, but we still have this other huge hurdle of breakout in front of us. We just generally want to know if this life board understands, and like, to your point, like, what would be the economic since the EDC bringing it benefit of it, but I think, like, don't get in the weeds. Let's not Yeah, yeah. We tool right now? Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part I was talking with Tom Fay, not knowing that part of the discussion about touch a truck, and that is, mean, the environmental, environmental, right? So part of it is not being able to get some feedback at touch a truck, you're going to have every family I know. In the town there. So I was saying to Tom, could we come to select board meeting next Monday or two weeks after, which is the 29th and just five minutes on the agenda? And just say, will you please just let us survey people at touch a truck, because then we'll have the data to bring to you for that October meeting. Right? Who will they Karen Kelly: care about that David Villari: data? But only be two days a date. That's a lot to collect all that data. Unknown: We're better off sending if we're going to collect data editing, we're going to get more if we send an email instead of being a touch dog. Yeah, okay, I'm not saying I'd be there. I'm saying I've tried to collect data from people, and it's not that easy. Yeah, got to get aggressive Rebecca Stanizzi: and let's kind of email and such a truck at the same time. It gives us that excuse, right? Email is a must, yeah, oh, yeah, without a doubt, not such a pressing it's getting an email and and they're hearing it David Villari: truck. But the other thing I wasn't sure about is, like, because this is a plaza owned area, right? The foot traffic increase going to be for the plaza, for those businesses. How does that play into, like, what we receive back as a town? And I don't know that answer Unknown: at all. Not educated, like, right? Like, how much more money does each business like, David Villari: are we talking like 1% Rebecca Stanizzi: of their sales actually comes back as I don't know what the numbers are. It's just elevating the value of the plaza, right? So is that where the money is? Yeah, value, elevation, value in the real estate tax. Yeah, we don't have, like, a sales tax. We don't have a local like that. Mean, we have, well, we don't have meals tax. So, yeah, it's, it's just purely real estate values. David Villari: Okay, that's cool. So then I got to talk to Chris at ConCom, who we'd started those, like, very informal discussions with two the comments, the playground vendor. Oh, and they had that one Wrentham Plaza, and they put the playground on, and I bet I could find the before and after valuations with the playground, yeah. Like, that was that Unknown: as the that's the drive, yeah, yeah. Get us through the discussion. Okay, yeah, yeah. Katie Noble Harris: I wonder if Watertown has anything, because they just put in that new splash pad. Yeah, I'm
Rebecca Stanizzi: sure if you chat GPT, it'll pop up a bunch of stuff. David Villari: It's just whether that's fine sits or Yeah, the valuation difference in the surrounding Rebecca Stanizzi: area, part of it'd be interesting to know. At town center right now, typically in a commercial valuation, they'll look at your rents and then your expenses, right? But they'll look at your actual vacancy. So the question is, how much vacancy is baked in? And if you know part of it is filling vacant spaces, and that helps bring up the valuation, and then it's kind of floating the rents, the rents already high, right? But if you can get those last spaces filled, then that's that may be something we actually talk with the assessor. And so we have a David Villari: matter both ways. We say assessed value would go up in general, because you have, if you can build store, friends obsessed, and then two, you actually fill those properties. So assessed value also goes up for, yeah, that's definitely the goal. So I would, I think I'll request some assistance on putting that story together. But, yeah, okay, so, so, October 6. October 6, Katie Noble Harris: Monday, okay, in person for Unknown: you. I'll pop in, in person. Yeah, right here. So I won't be there. I'll be out of the country. Will you? Okay? Yeah, bummer. We'll prep you before,
Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, I mean, it's for them. You'll have to, it's not like they're suddenly going to dive into all the data, right? It's going to be very high level numbers, if we can, if you can, show that, you know, other properties have increased the value of that commercial tax base by 10% like, just gorilla math, like this is what it means, right? So now we know what the valuation is for the commercial it's Unknown: really just a nod to move forward. But it's not a nod of it's a very it's a non committal not that's all we're asking. Rebecca Stanizzi: It's just starting the process. Yes, yes, yes. And the other Katie Noble Harris: thing I know, a possible objection that was raised was the cost of, like, landscaping. And I think one thing that we could do is private fundraising, like, raise money to try and cover those costs. Rebecca Stanizzi: If we can find those precedents, find the precedents where they've done it. What's that David Villari: I said? I'll just move it in one that was part of the reason why I think we wanted to get with DPW and understand like they're the ones that do the maintenance facilities. Team is going to do the construction. So, like, those two inputs would have been really great to go into the Select Board meeting. But process wise, like, because we're just advisory to select Rebecca Stanizzi: board, yeah, just map out. This is, this is what we want to do, first steps, environmental, DEP, W, I could just, and then, then you just Katie Noble Harris: go and do it, yeah, that's something that's even in the new plaza owners lease, is that they mow the lawn for the playground,
Rebecca Stanizzi: or they already they do. I think they do.
Karen Kelly: Nothing has to mow the lawn over there. Unknown: But is it the town these goats that just come Rebecca Stanizzi: out good to know and get that information. So. David Villari: Of galaxy, or is it? Yeah, Zara people, okay, yeah. So I'll take a crack and I'll circulate when it can feedback. Okay, um, all right.
Rebecca Stanizzi: So quickly the other so the pre order pickup window outreach, we were talking about that before. So I think it's the information to the brokers. So you guys were trading something you wanted to compare with Jeff, who's not here. You guys want to kind of connect and then be able to send it out after next meeting. Katie Noble Harris: I redid it a little bit. I think I need Jeff's input on some of this stuff. I'm a little bit like that. Okay, got it? You're confused about some of it. Yeah. All right, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: And then the question, you know, can we post it even though nobody's going to our web page, maybe we can drive a little traffic to it, but it'd be great to get that posted on the town website somewhere. Katie Noble Harris: So I guess we'll call it outreach to brokers. Yeah.
Rebecca Stanizzi: Okay, so existing quarter conditions clean up. So Katie, do you want to update our stroll? Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, Becky, I took a stroll down Route 20 the other day. Beautiful morning. Rebecca Stanizzi: It was a beautiful when he came out. I heard everyone around with a piece of paper, and you're taking pictures, like, what are you doing? You guys actually walked down. We did. We walked the whole corridor. Oh, that's coming out and talking to us. And, yeah, imagine we had sidewalks. I know what a concept. David Villari: No, it's not very fun with the stroller. No, Katie Noble Harris: yeah. So we started kind of near Pelham Island and worked our way down. And yeah, had a bunch of business owners come up and inquire what we were doing, and had some great conversations. We made contacts with a few business owners that we just haven't been able to get their contact info for So Becky got that info and reached out to a few of those people. And I'd say it was like a really positive interaction that we had learned some Wayland history, and then we just took some pictures and wrote down some notes about some things that we think could be improved in the Rebecca Stanizzi: future. And I was just organizing that and then getting into our columns of zoning cleanup. And then, you know what? Zoning has to change, whether it's landscape or whatever, but, and then we also ran into the maple maple gate, maple tree, maple tree landscaping guy, Vinny. David Villari: So you know, I got his contact too. He's doing our loan. Rebecca Stanizzi: So part of what you see in that corridor are some property owners who just let their landscaping go, right? And so talking to the vet that, you know, woman who works there came out and talked to us, and their weeds are all overgrown, but the dogs like it, right? But clearly, they're not paying for landscaping, but it's expensive, right? For a landscaper to show up for this little, tiny plot, it's going to be expensive. So if we can talk with Vinny like, what if you had the whole corridor, or you had, you know, five or six that you just coming in one fell swoop, and it's really cost effective for the different people. Would you be willing, you know, talking to those people? Would you be willing to do that? And I think that could make a huge difference, even just the landscape.
David Villari: There you go, round two. Rebecca Stanizzi: So apologies to anybody watching. Hopefully you can still see it. We got cut off for some reason. But yeah, so the landscape part, it'd be great to kind of figure that out. He seems to be super motivated, so we're meeting with him next Tuesday. When we met with cook automotive, he came out. Was talking like, if you, if you work there, that sign, the gas sign, clearly needs to come down. But he's like, yeah, like, you want me to take it down? I'll take it down, but you do a new one. Oh, let's talk. We're like, oh, it'd be lovely to have a nice sign. And, you know, so we're gonna go and talk about so, yeah. David Villari: So I go to Lloyd all the time for our cars, so I'm happy to go down and talk to him right there. So if that makes it easier for you too, yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: So it'd be great if, you know, he could be our test case, and he could write a story about it in the post. They get some good PR, you know, like, this virtuous cycle of, oh, look, somebody did that. Oh, I'll do that. So, yeah. So he had shared by next time, and Danny David Villari: and I talked with he shared that he tried to get that Santander building as, like, office space and some training space, and it just couldn't work out because of, like, high, high, high rent prices and some other hurdles. Did he share that story with you guys too? No, but I'm sure we'll hear it, because that's also valuable. It's like, we're looking to expand, like, better commercial use of that area in a corridor, like, hey, Vinny, tell us what those problems were, and you kind of had that is like, tell us what the problems were, sex. Better understand them. Yeah. So he's he has one, and if you guys already have good contact, Rebecca Stanizzi: okay, talk to him. Next Tuesday. We'll be seeing him. We'll ask him. Okay, so we'll click that for next month, and then we can kind of look at it and then reach out from there to because we've been talking with Bill Sterling at DRB and Tom White and CPA, and then also mentioned it to Nate at the building department. So hopefully we can get that moving along with the goal of, can we get it cleaned up for next spring. It's next spring. Duncan will be opening, you know, ultimately, terrain will be opening in the in the summertime, so we get the whole corridor looking nice. That would route 20 Master Plan sidewalks, curb cut. I've been reaching out. I got approval to be able to do that, so I'm talking with Tom holder to get that moving along. So I. Him yesterday, just to find out if he's moving it along. But the next step is to do an RFP for that scope of services. So he had one couple that he was looking at, and I had sort of pulled out a chat GPT and had him do one. So it's, it's like state bidding, it's, it's, it's just, yeah, typical protocol. So hopefully we get that one moving, because the cash is there. We are have the ability to do it. And it's just, I know that Tom is really busy so, but he believes in it as a topic, so he lived through it in his town, and the difference that it made with the with the new curb cuts and sidewalks, so ribbon cuttings. So United volleyball is opening this weekend. But have they said? Unknown: So I have a back channel with them, yeah. So, you know, did you see my email Monday, where I CC to everyone and said, Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, like, it's happening this Saturday. So no, so Unknown: that's what I'm saying, like, so I think it's important for us to kind of own each of these businesses if we're having conversations with them, yeah, just so that all the communications so they they are doing it, like an open house for their current teams and stuff. Yeah, their current members this weekend. And then they had asked last week, hey, we're doing that. We they said, We're doing this next weekend. We would like to have the river coming the next week. Do you have any recommendations on, like, best time of day, or blah, blah, blah, and then I CC them in with the rest of the ribbon cutting crew, and said, Hey guys, great news. See you seeing BBC folks like they would like to get something started for next week. Michael, what is your availability? No one responded. So if Rebecca Stanizzi: it's Robert has said he's going to do it, then I would ping Anina directly and say, Anina, can you step in at least today? Unknown: I think, I think in general, we have to have another discussion as the ribbon cutting committee, because this is going to go on forever, and if the person running point is not available, we need to have a secondary person. It's just not reasonable. It's also not reasonable to cc new lessees in town, and have no one respond from the town. It's just not good enough. It's not okay, my opinion. So I'm upset about that, and I feel like Michael should be upset about that too. It's a terrible look for us. So moving forward with that, like, I'm not really sure what to do, I can reach back out to them and say, Hey, I'm sorry. No one's responded. Somebody's on vacation Rebecca Stanizzi: would stop by in Nina's office. Just went by and say, Can you at least just love in an email? Yeah, Robert usually hums these he's been out, but you know, it's on our radar. And you know, maybe she has thoughts as to certain day or time if he's she's been talking with Robert in the past, but just so they get something today, Unknown: she needs to be given permission to do so I may ask. I'll ask her to, yeah, I don't know that she will, because, well, Rebecca Stanizzi: she's supposed to be standing in for him this week, so okay, if nothing else, then the placeholder, he'll be back. Type of thing. We hear you like, I agree that, you know, it shouldn't just kind of fallen off into David Villari: that hole either. They look to open. I mean, I saw a bunch of people, so they are open, right? Rebecca Stanizzi: Yes. Like, a soft opening, Unknown: yeah, yeah. Like, very soft. But they're having, like, games. I don't know if they've actually she they said open house this weekend and then ribbon cutting next week. So they're definitely starting, I don't know, David Villari: after bike rides with my kids, like, we stop in, we get chocolate, chocolate therapy. And then there was, like, kids, like, flowing out of volleyball, like, a bunch of yay. Unknown: They also was interesting. When I was in there, they raised the ceilings. Yeah, they didn't, actually, so I take it back, they didn't actually raised the ceiling, they removed the ceiling. Yeah, yeah, to do this. But I walked in there, I was like, man, actually, there's some space up there. So anyway, they're very nice. They have a manager who's very responsive. They really want to be part of the community. David Villari: And it drove a lot of traffic, because each one of the kids that I saw was getting picked up in like, their own car, yeah, nobody I saw. I saw people like, then pulling over to the grocery store, right? And I was like, Oh, man. Like, if they just knew the kids could just walk five feet and go spend $5 at the chocolate store too, yeah? Like, that would be Yeah, but they'll figure that Rebecca Stanizzi: over time, hopefully, yes. Would be great if inside there was a map on the wall of the retailers around David Villari: we only have, like the plaza, only has one map that shows all the businesses, and that's outside, yeah, which is that little circle next to the back door of bagel table. That's the only location that I saw, yeah, could be better. But anyway, Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah, but it's not for them to be able to broadcast. That's why they're coming, because they like the fact there was so much around. So the question is, do you have, are they planning on doing a little map or, you know, we help them dudes get a David Villari: poster, stick it on the doors Exactly, exactly down the street. Unknown: You've done a good I know that somebody had forwarded us by retailer of the month boarding us emails. Hmm, and they, I remember there was one email where they said, like, oh, there's all these great retailers in the plaza, and, like, listed them out, yeah, but like to continue to do that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's keep moving. I need to jump, Katie Noble Harris: okay, the same lines, just like life text. I sent an email, and again, no response from the town, and they're having an opening this weekend. Unknown: So what did you send to them? To who, like, what was the message Katie Noble Harris: was I sent to Michael and the rest of our looks like they're having that they're opening this Saturday. Is there anyone from town that might be able to attend? Karen Kelly: Oh, that's so funny. I thought that he sent that about the Katie Noble Harris: UBC. No, no, it's for the life tax. Karen Kelly: Okay, sorry, I looked very late Katie Noble Harris: last night. Robert said, I'm happy to take the lead, but there's no right way, because he was he the one who forwarded that to us. Yes, okay, yes, just no follow up. So I'm Unknown: not like, we're not going to be involved in this and have this kind of behavior, like, it's not okay. So right, Rebecca Stanizzi: all right, Collins market, so I went to the zba hearing, so everybody's aware of the townhouse they do. So everybody loves it. They have no parking. And so I was talking with them after the fact, and I said, they want to do have you
seen their plans downstairs, half the floor is kind of dining area. And then upstairs, half the floor is sending real estate is still there, and then they have, like a space that would be for dinner or for events or whatever. So they have quite a few potential seats, and they have no official parking, so there's spaces out front. The discussion was, we're right now put just like around the corner on Pelham Island. Put signs that say max two hours, because right now, employees from those other buildings take those parking spots and park all day, and they do the same thing at the depot. So put signs there. Zba is like, I don't know if we can actually do that, but they could recommend to the town to do that, so at least get those spots flowing. But I talked with them offline after the fact, and they said, as we were standing in the parking lot, so the pediatricians just redid their parking lot, and it backs right up to the building. And I said, you guys should talk with them, because it's dead empty at night, and you need nights and weekends, and that's exactly when they're not there. So coordinate with them. Rent some parking it's good publicity for them, you know, just passing by their building, and then you can book events, because events, they'll need the parking right? They'll meet for dinner. You can't be schlepping that far away when it's February, right? It's lovely in June. But yeah, so with that, I mean, clearly the zba was trying to figure out how to approve it, but if they could at least do that, I think it'd be a slam dunk, and they'd be good to go. So that was the email. So I met with I met one of the proponents consultant, and yeah, I did not so Kirsten was too tied up with people who were talking after the fact. So that's why they were wanting to reach out, and we can kind of communicate with them. But I think if they can just do that little bit, the library is unwilling to share their parking. They are okay. David Villari: Library own the accessory town building as well. It's the rail Karen Kelly: trip. They do, yeah? It's owned by the town. Rebecca Stanizzi: It's, it's dedicated, yeah, and they have the whole lot, yeah. So they are unwilling to, because, I mean, so much gets abused right now with the bike trail, right? And, you know, here, people will walk, but to have it as official, Unknown: what do you think is the likelihood that she'll be able to, like space, share with pediatricians. I think if Rebecca Stanizzi: they could. I mean, pediatricians, you know, it's like they can share on their snow plowing bill. And, you know, it's like there's liability insurance. David Villari: It's just hard to see this be a problem because, like, parking is, if you have to walk 100 feet, it's a good thing for the town. We're trying to get foot traffic. That's interesting. It's like, you want to see more people using the street, slowing down, making sure crosswalks get used on the DEP W curve, but all that stuff. So it's like, don't let that barrier, Rebecca Stanizzi: I know. But the interesting thing so when we were walking around and me talking with silk veterinarian. They just bought the chiropractor building on the corner. Why? Because they wanted the parking spots. So silk is that stress for parking. They have maybe two spots. Say, I have in front there, and it is a pain in the neck, pain in the neck. So mean, clearly businesses like that, I don't want to say that they are, but they're the ones putting their employees over on 27 so if they can't park there, where are they going to go? You know, it's going to it's going to get tight, and in the morning it's incredibly congested. So I'm hoping a lot of people do walk, but it we've all seen Starbucks, right? So I'm of the mindset, let it go, and if it's too difficult for people to go in the morning, that's the business's problem. That was sort of the discussion. Like, at some point you're harming yourselves by not having that parking. And that's why I'm like, you know, it's like you can't use that parking during the day, but at least if you've had it when you really want to make your money and just find a liquor license, right? So, and I think so. So, yeah, so it's like, you'll want to have that parking. So are we out of liquor licenses? David Villari: Like, a half when you do? Can't sell wine in beer and tequila, just Rebecca Stanizzi: beer and wine. You know, not I remember. It was mentioned before, but I don't remember it in the zba app. Maybe it's just coffee for right now, but they're definitely doing dinner or an event. Oh, yeah. So if you have an event, you unless you bring your own Unknown: eat with terrain. There's place we have space for both, David Villari: I don't, yeah, but Rebecca Stanizzi: yeah. Long story short, like our zoning code is so wacky that they could, literally, if they squinted, probably approve the building without parking, but it doesn't pass the giggle test, right? So it's just our thing is so poorly written. It's just, it's bizarre. So yeah, they're just trying to figure out. So Tom, who's an architect, not an attorney is trying to figure out, so he needs to check with Town Council, and, you know, can they approve it without any, you know, dedicated parking? But when I was talking to them afterwards, if you can just get something, yeah, that's dedicated, everyone will just breathe a lot easier. During the day, you will get people off the bike path and walking and but you you know, at night, it's going to be different. So it's kind of you gotta and we all events is where you make your money. Yeah, that's David Villari: so you need a bike rack, yeah? Rebecca Stanizzi: So anyway, so there they were. Well prepared, well received. Had people speaking sport like nobody was really the only service the library said, We love the concept, don't use parking. So that was sort of the extent David Villari: surprising they would say that, because, like, if you're parking to go get a coffee and then you use the library lot, you're more likely to now be like, All right, kids, let's go in. Let's go read a book, and you'll use the library more. Unknown: Yeah, I don't know their volumes. Like, I don't know. Like, I Yeah, it's full Rebecca Stanizzi: often, okay, yeah, the library, the library, yeah, yep, it is. You can usually get a space, but it's, yeah, okay, so infographic, sorry, how much time do you guys have left? It is now 1005. Minutes. You have five minutes All right, so you have you looked at this revised or not, or Okay,
Katie Noble Harris: photo of sign, yeah, Yeah, okay.
Oh yes, sir.
David Villari: My that was my 90% Katie Noble Harris: I should just put 90% square footage. David Villari: It's worth clarifying, yeah, because I, I'm like, oh, that's b Yeah, if I look at it, I say square front, Rebecca Stanizzi: but it is, when you stop and think about it, like all the doctor's offices. I mean, everything is basically filled except that, you know, and like, you're always going to have one or two that are baking at any given time, but it's those, it's the kids strong, and it's the one across that makes it feel like he's David Villari: I just I walked in, like, I like, consciously went by and tried to count the number of doors, yeah, stickers on it, like, front doors. And it was like, six still, Rebecca Stanizzi: but the kid strong being all one space, or were you counting because it has multiple David Villari: doors? That's where I don't I don't have, like, their layout of the plaza. Is that available online? Just missed it disruption. It's just gonna call summit Rebecca Stanizzi: and just, oh, I have one. I said, I don't know if it's on. I don't know if they posted online, but yeah, I'll text Unknown: you out. Yeah, yep. Yeah. Rebecca Stanizzi: I think we should do so. So with the sale, I think data is good, the occupancy rate, the tax projections, those are always like the three hot buttons, just like small tweaks in language, but the bike path, so did you get a hold of Larry? Katie Noble Harris: Yes, it is that's correct. Rebecca Stanizzi: Well, you just say what they're paving. When are they paving? Katie Noble Harris: I can try and get more info from him, Rebecca Stanizzi: because one is like, what are they actually doing? The connector from Russell's to Sudbury that way. But then the question they're they're supposedly paving, what's now stoned us. That drives some people crazy. David Villari: That should be after. I think timing was, from what I saw. It's after they build the bridge, because they consider, you know, the stone dust area, it's writable, it's usable. Yeah, so they were going to do the bridge work and all that, and get the commitment and do paving here. But is it? DCR is Rebecca Stanizzi: doing it? I thought it was like a different pot of money or something. No, I don't know. Try to find out when, you know, hopefully when that's happening is that sort of the missing link you Unknown: and I were just chatting about, maybe we take any text feedback now and then she and I can work on this together for next meeting, just clean up some design and other stuff, and then have it ready to go. Okay, she's been doing a lot. I can help there with Rebecca Stanizzi: lot of stuff going on. Cool, alright. So get any comments. So guys, alright, that's alright. This is on the property of contact list. I clean that up. We're actually in pretty good shape. It's really it's looking great. I remember the colors on it. Yeah, I was asking you, do the colors mean anything was that just left over? Katie Noble Harris: You added a lot of info, the colors for were for like, information that I was missing. Okay, so I Rebecca Stanizzi: can kind of change around for that, just to highlight with the box we're missing. Yes, I didn't want to change it without I'm like, there's maybe some system here, I don't know, Katie Noble Harris: but yeah, you can change it, or I can change it whatever you want. Rebecca Stanizzi: Okay, all right, and then committee liaison updates, joint meeting with FinCom. Now it's probably gonna be October lanes. I did ping Jeff. I said, Any update on lab? And he's like, No, I was chastened. He's Jason. He was just so concerned about the last I think we need sort of a, yeah, he's to go by right, and talk with them. I think it was just too they didn't quite understand getting a phone call. Katie Noble Harris: Otherwise, I'm happy to go by. I'm at often at the high school for like, Val Rebecca Stanizzi: lives there too. So the question is, and I think before he stopped in, I don't know, Val is sort of the natural one. He lives around the corner type of thing. So I'll ping him and see if he can pick up that ball. And then the economic development bond bill we still don't have. So it could be researching other bond bills. It could be anywhere over five years. I'm like, Oh, nice, right? So you really plan on that? Yeah, and, oh, I should have taken off 14 West plane was supposed to come off. There is public forum next Monday. Next Monday. Do you think you'll go to that, or I probably will just to listen. But I think that I know the library would love to do a satellite there. I don't know if anybody's gonna be organized enough to do community center different from the library, but, and then it's a question of the office David Villari: uses, was that going forward is count use. That's what's Rebecca Stanizzi: being proposed. That's why they're doing this public forum. And so the question is, what within the town, like officials, town uses, or, yeah, yeah, because you can easily move, like the school department over, yeah, anything we can do to condense here, it's going to make it less expensive to build or rebuild, or whatever we're doing later Katie Noble Harris: notice, a bit of chatter about that building online, and I do wonder if, in the new near future, like maybe later this fall or winter, if it would be, depending on how it goes with the meeting, if it would be worthwhile to kind of put some numbers down for people to read an infographic. Yeah, because I think that there's some assumptions that maybe people are making about it, or why the town buildings, wow, that would be helpful for people to see the math down. Unknown: Yeah, yep. And like the cost per square footage to build the community center versus Katie Noble Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the client makes some useful sense. Yep. All right, whether that's us or not, I'm actually not sure, but yeah, Rebecca Stanizzi: so next month I'm coming back on the 10th so it's also a social Columbus Day weekend. So 17th, work for you guys. We're in October. I know, isn't it crazy? October 7, October 17, 830,
Katie Noble Harris: as of right now, David Villari: yes, yes.
Katie Noble Harris: Okay, easy.
Rebecca Stanizzi: Anything else before we adjourn? Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion, David, motion, second, second, Aaron, second, all in favor. Aye, four, oh, we are adjourned at 10:11am,
ELVIS Committee
13-Aug-25 - ELVIS Committee
David Bernstein: So we have a
full agenda, so let's get
started. It's now 732 I hereby
call this meeting to order.
First order of business is to
appoint a a secretary. Pro Tom
Larry, can we impinge on you
again? Yes, sure. Thank you very
much, sir. Okay. Do we have any
public comment? Robbie, is there
anyone out there?
Unknown: I see no, but they're
with their hand raised. Okay.
David Bernstein: Is anyone on
the elbows committee or Miranda?
Anyone have public comment they
want to kick us off with I do
not. Okay. Alright. So that
being done, let's move to the
first item of the agenda, which
is to approve the minutes of our
last meeting, which was on 2005
312 so here they are,
Unknown: 25 312 Yep.
David Bernstein: Think that's
what it says. It does, yep. So
here's this, here's the minutes.
Boy, I can never find something
that will drag this. I'm not a
big fan of Windows 11 here.
Let's not put that in the
minutes anyway. So here are the
minutes courtesy of Larry. Does
anyone have any corrections that
need to be made to these
minutes? Anyone? I thought they
were pretty good myself, but all
right, in the absence of any
corrections. Is there a motion
to approve these minutes? So
moved, so Lynn. Lynn moved, and
John seconded. Anyone All in
favor? Aye, aye. Anyone opposed,
hearing nothing that will record
the boat as unanimous
Larry Krakauer: in the past,
we've on some technicality. You
thought we needed to poll
everyone. I'm perfectly happy to
do it this way, just it was
different the last time,
David Bernstein: I think we're
okay this way. I mean, if
somebody wants, if we have a non
unanimous vote, we'll take a
poll. How about that? But given
that no one is opposing, I don't
think we need to do that. Okay,
so that is now disposed of. So
the next item of business is to
review performance of electronic
voting during the last town
meeting. So I think that's right
there. Okay, so this is a
summary that I recorded. Don had
forecast 500 voters, recommended
600 handsets. His recommendation
was based on the fact that the
2023 town meeting attendance was
quite low, and a lot of the
responses came from people who
hadn't attended any the last
couple town meetings. Mike Faia,
our facilities director, ordered
500 handsets and five check in
stations. Oti, because several
of us were nervous, brought 300
extra handsets, and they set up
two base stations, but they had
a third ready to go if they
needed it. And so at one other
point, the check in staff was
issued a voter card for voting
in case we had insufficient
handsets. So a number of us were
just nervous that that the 500
handsets ordered weren't going
to be enough. Trudy, you know,
was prepared for that, in her
way. Oti brought extra handsets,
and what we ended up with was a
total of 480 people showing up
the first night. So we came
within 20 minutes or 20 people
of Don's original 500 forecast.
There were no failed handsets,
there were no voting problems,
but we were plagued by iPhone
hotspots activating, and I
actually tracked one down to the
person he lives in the street
next to us who did it, and I'm
going to seek him out before the
next town meeting, if he's
present, and let him know that
that's really not acceptable.
Because it wasn't just a matter
of having those hot spots be
active. Whenever I go around and
look for them, they'd get turned
off and then they'd get turned
back on again when I sat down.
So you know it was, it was
someone trying to get some work
done and conceal the fact that
they were disrupting our
meeting. The next night, we had
a peak attendance of 337 again,
no failed handsets, no voting
system problems, and so that was
a bit of an issue. But total
unique voters 597 and so as far
as I'm concerned, this is as
good as it gets.
Larry Krakauer: Dave, where the handset, sorry, the hot spots. Any problem? I that, you know, they everything was working fine. So even if the hot spots were there, were they causing difficulty, David Bernstein: the only way to know that would be to record the number of retries that are required every time there's communication between the base station and a handset, and unless we go bug out the oti folks about that, that it's, it's, it's problem. Larry Krakauer: Yeah, so we don't know that. There was certainly no difficulty at any level that you know caused us to notice problems. David Bernstein: No Correct. I Unknown: mean, a symptom of that, a symptom of a problem would be, you know, there'd be a longer delay in the response, correct, and we didn't see any of that, pretty much things were instantaneous, David Bernstein: right from our testing. But you know, when there's 500 handsets, you know, 10% of them could be having to retry twice, and we wouldn't know it. So I think our rule has to be that we just don't tolerate hot spots, because we don't know how many of them would be required to actually cause problems. And given, you know, given the susceptibility, I think we just have to stay on top of that. Okay, so total unique voters was 597 which is three less than what we tell everybody is our average for town meeting attendance in Wayland. So I thought that was pretty interesting. So that was the the summary of how the meetings went after the meeting, Miranda indicated that she would like to consider reducing the duration of voting from 30 Seconds to 20 seconds, and we discussed that with Mark fight, and he said it would be fine, so long as we didn't have more than 400 voters. So Miranda, did you want to comment on this? Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, so it's interesting seeing the statistics now that okay, we could have done that on the second night, but we and periodically through the first one we didn't have over 400 people, we could have, I just I feel like when I say the window is open, that we're all just eyeballing each other for a lot of too long a time period. It just seems like it takes the voting period is just too long. And then I asked Tom meeting, and it the majority seemed to agree that the 30 minutes seemed unneces. 30 seconds seems unnecessary. But obviously we have the technical issues that when we have over 400 people, we would have to keep it at 30 seconds. So I'm not, I'm not married to the concept of doing 20 seconds. What do you people think? Do you think we do it, as long as I know that I have fewer than 400 people in attendance, or fewer, fewer than 400 people registered voters, voting, that I do it, or you see it fraught with problems. Lynne Dunbrack: I can see on the first night, if you had a situation where the attendance fluctuated, so maybe at the beginning it was around, you know, at the 400 threshold where it was okay to do 20 seconds. And then, you know, now we have a big article that everybody's, you know, wants to weigh in on. So now, you know, there's many more attendees, so now we have to flip to 30. How long do we stay at? 30 seconds before we can flip back to 20? Because now people have gone home because they made their big vote. I think maybe on on the last day where, you know, we don't typically have those big or not usually have those big articles for voting. You know, it's a pretty standard amount of people who come and it's not fluctuating up and down. You could probably get away that my concern, I guess, where I'm going with this is my concern would be, if you were flipping between 20 and 30 because of fluctuation, whether that might confuse some voters. I mean, I know it's only 10 seconds, so it shouldn't be a big deal either way. But, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, no, I think Lynne Dunbrack: that would be my and I'm not. I can be convinced either way, but I that would be my one concern. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, no, I, and I appreciate that. I, I I I think that if the town meeting knew that the issue is, there's a cap of 400 people, once there's 400 people, we have to go over to 30 seconds. As long as that was put out, made very, very public, then they would understand it. I guess my question then becomes is, am I able to know how many, how many handsets have been put out on every single warrant article? I mean, do we know that in real time? We do. We do so it is feasible for me to, you know, go through the first six, seven articles, doing it at 20 seconds, and then all of a sudden, somebody, I'm alerted on Article eight, we're up to, we're up to over 401 people. We have to convert to 30 seconds on and can oti go do the 20 to 32nd David Bernstein: I believe so exchange. Miranda S. Jones: I mean, so then it's feasible to do it. I just think the town, town meeting has to understand what what the issue is. And I think what you say, the threshold is 400 then they would appreciate it. So, I don't know. So I'm going to think about that a that. David Bernstein: And here's a suggestion for what we might try. Yep. Suppose we say that if at the beginning of the meeting there are 400 or fewer voters, we will start out with a 22nd voting window, and you the moderator, will announce that, yep, if at any time, do. During the meeting, the number of voters rises above 400 then the oti people will notify Elvis, and Elvis will come notify you, and you'll make an announcement that from now on, the voting window will be expanded to 30 seconds, okay, I would suggest that once the voting window expands to 30 seconds, it not be reduced again during that session. Okay, that's fair confuse people, yep. Okay. You know, as people get used to this, maybe later on, we can reduce it at the end of the meeting, if it's appropriate. But I would say to start, let's say we can start at 20 and raise it to 30, but once we get to 30, we keep it at 30 for the duration of the session. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, that's a fair compromise. I can see doing that I agree, because David Bernstein: that eliminates the problem Lin was concerned with. Yeah, Miranda S. Jones: no, I think that's, that's a good way of looking at it. Okay, okay, listen, I'm, I'm up for any suggestion, any and all suggestions about making Tom meeting move along more quickly and and to that end, there are a lot of other things being discussed about making that happen that don't necessarily involve Elvis. And if you want to hear about them, we can talk offline, but, but my goal is to get this done in one night, so it may not happen this next year. It may not happen the year after, but at some point it would be nice to routinely get it down to one night. One of the big ways of getting it done is by using utilizing the Consent Calendar and putting more articles on one consent calendar and getting a series of articles passed in one fell swoop. But we have to get the town used to it and that that comes with its own issues. So anyway, that's my goal. Is to make this more efficient. Okay, so David Bernstein: is everybody comfortable with the 20 to 30 proposal as a trial at the next town meeting? Unknown: Yes, yes. Sounds Larry Krakauer: like a simple proposal. I like it. There's really nothing rigid about this 400 threshold, right? This, this was, David Bernstein: well, it's oti. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, yeah.
David Bernstein: Mark likes it when we are consistent with his requirements. Okay, so I think we've disposed of items five and six. Let's now move on to remote participation, where we'll spend most of the time this evening. So the first thing I'd like to do is just remind everybody that there are two bills. 2272 is a home rule petition for Wayland alone that would allow us to do remote participation in our town meetings. 2274 is the same language, but statewide. Well, everybody in the state to be able to do this. So I want to start by going through our remote participation presentation, to which I've made updates here and there mostly is real feedback while giving it now. We talked about this, I think, at our meeting last March. So not all, not all the changes are new, but there's a couple of things I want to review here. So the first one is on slide six. So we have this depiction on slide five of what we have today, a voting system with an on premises set of handsets. It used to be that this just said voting system, which is inconsistent, because what we're really doing is we're expanding this to not just allow remote participants to vote, but to be able to listen and speak. So I named it the town meeting system. If somebody has a better name for that, that's fine with me. But just to differentiate from the fact that previously, it was just a voting system, and now with remote participation, it's full participation, with listening, speaking and voting, and the slide previously didn't wasn't consistent with that point. Any comments on that? Okay, if not moving on to Slide 12, there's Lucy. So this is, there's a couple points here. One is one of the moderators I presented to. Said, you know where you really should be able to show us who's speaking. So there now shows that a friend, Robert Smith, is speaking. You might ask, Well, how does that get in there? Well, this is a pretty good argument for an assistant moderator who, among other things, whenever somebody introduces themselves, enters that person's name into the system so that all the remote participants can see who it is, and it wouldn't be a bad idea if the video, whatever video was displaying on premises, showed the first thing. There's another point on this slide, and that is that some people saying, I think our moderator is one of them. I'd rather see town meeting video here. I'd rather that remote participants saw video and heard as well as heard audio. So I guess we could say that that would be an option, that each town could decide whether you know when we're there's discussion going on, do remote participants see transcribe text, or do they see video? Or maybe that should even be a per participant. Option where each remote participant can decide. Now, before we go too much further, there's one other data point. There is town meeting video broadcast on WayCAM In our case, but that broadcast has a 10 second delay, so I'm not sure that if what we ended up with was 10 second delayed video with real time audio that that would be very helpful. So I don't know that we can resolve this here, but there's the question of what gets displayed during discussion. Is it transcribe text, which a lot of people would find helpful? Is it real time audio and video that we somehow pipe? Or is it real time audio with video from WayCAM. All of those, I believe, are technically feasible. We just have to decide, you know, what we want. And my guess is no three towns are going to make the same decision, which means that whoever implements this software is going to have to cater to all of the options that people might want. Comments. Lynne Dunbrack: I have a comment, but it's not so much related to this as our prior conversation about the voting window, because the 10 second delay from WayCAM will impact that. But I don't want to derail the first David Bernstein: question. That's a That's a fair point. You could argue that 10 second delayed video would be counterproductive for exactly that reason. Yeah, that whatever's going on, you're 10 you're 10 seconds behind real time. Is that 10 Lynne Dunbrack: second delay? Just out of curiosity, is that 10 second delay in late in case someone uses one of
Miranda S. Jones: the seven words? George Carlin, Lynne Dunbrack: Carlin, thank you. I was like, Carlton came up first. And I was like, that's not David Bernstein: right, words none of us would ever use. Miranda S. Jones: Do you know how often I have to check myself? It is part of my vernacular on a daily basis. So, but for whatever reason, whenever I get in front of people like that, I don't, for some David Bernstein: reason, my guess is, in order to have 10 second delay video, waycamp has to have real time video, and then they put it through a 10 second delay. So it's possible, I imagine, that if we wanted to, we could get real time video and display and have that be piped out to the remote participants. I don't know what's involved in that, yeah, I Miranda S. Jones: don't know what sort of regulations there are with federal regulations in terms of broadcasting, and if there has to be, because of the because of the issue about things that are inappropriate to be broadcast, I really don't know what the town council maybe. David Bernstein: So some research that has to be done. There's a number of options. We have to decide which ones are ones that might be useful, and then which ones? You know, what do we have to do to do them? But I just thought is very, sort of a very interesting set of requirements that pop out of this one slide. But, Miranda S. Jones: but to lens point, if I if I may, though, I mean, I foresee, do you all foresee that if we were to have remote participation, and people are voting on their hands, on their either iPads or their cell phones. Do you think we will still be using the clickers for people who are in person? David Bernstein: I We certainly will the first time we ever try remote participation. Okay, over time, I would hope that we could get to the point where people on premises are using the same software on the same kinds of devices, whether they're their own smartphone or ones that oti brings brings up, right? I agree only. The only issue with that is we would go from trying to shut down WiFi hotspots to making sure that we have enough WiFi bandwidth in the room to handle all the handsets. Yeah, Unknown: Dave, go make a comment. Go right ahead. Alan, so if you transition to not using the clickers, doesn't that change the business model with oti that you we presently have, because they're priced based on clickers, yeah, and, and they also provide the show. So you can't cut them out by replacing the clickers, because you still need their services, David Bernstein: we would need to negotiate a new business model. Unknown: Okay? Well, that doesn't exist. I just wanted to point that out, David Bernstein: right? We won't need to do that right away, because, like I said, the first time, we're not going to change all the variables simultaneously. The first time we do this for real, it will be remote participants using smartphones and tablets, but the on premises people will continue to use clickers. And then as we get the remote participation stuff really working, and our confidence grows, then we can begin to investigate using the remote participant stuff on premises. And at that point, we'd have to have a discussion with whoever our supplier is, that you know, both parties are comfortable with, Miranda S. Jones: but to the point of the 10 second delay, I think as we once this passes, we will need to figure out, how do we do this? So everyone's voting, both those people in person and those people participating remotely. How are they starting the voting window at this. Same time? Yeah, and I don't know what the Don Schuler: answer, just one comment. Don't you think people will actually be watching the town meeting on their TV while they're actually doing some of the voting remotely? I mean, they may be watching it and say, Oh, now here comes the interesting part. Let me get on my, you know, pick up my
David Bernstein: they will understand that there's a 10 second delay. It'll be fine. But you know, if you're engaged, if you're going to speak, if you want to vote, you really have to be using your handset, otherwise, it'll be 10 seconds behind the times, Don Schuler: right? Well, yeah, you will. But I mean, I think people might be doing that anyway. They might be doing both, yeah, could fairly common situation. Or we David Bernstein: could have Wayland. We could have Wayland declared a a community that never uses bad words over the air. And we don't need a 10 second.
Miranda S. Jones: I'm not. I'm not signing that. So Larry Krakauer: okay, well, is this really over the air? I mean, this is all cable. David Bernstein: Well, it's over Wi Fi, so it is over the air, but I don't think that counts. Larry Krakauer: No, no, yeah, I don't you're not supposed to be in on the Wi Fi. David Bernstein: I think the only, the only destination that needs the 10 second delay for our legal purposes would be WayCAM. Larry Krakauer: Well, no, but that's the question I'm thinking in terms of WayCAM. Oh, it's not over the air either. It's it's on a cable system. Oh, that's David Bernstein: true, and it's not like you don't hear about broadcast. Yes, yeah. CC, right. But wait a second, we don't hear, we hear bad words on lots of things that come over the case Miranda S. Jones: we do on cable. That was the whole point of cable, right? David Bernstein: So the real question is, why does White cam need a 10 second delay? Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, it's good question, Unknown: yeah. And also not David Bernstein: the outcome I was expecting. Very cool. Unknown: I remember a seven second delay for the FCC. Anybody remember that? No,
David Bernstein: okay, well, that was productive. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, any other No, I'm in touch with WayCAM Because we're planning on doing a bunch of Tom meeting things, putting it up on the website, and making a series of videos to teach people about Tom meeting and maybe get them more interested in it. I'll ask them if they understand why there's a 10 second delay. Okay, if they've got, if they know the regulation behind it, if whatever it is, David Bernstein: yeah, that'd be great. Sure. Any other discussion about this slide? Okay, let's move on to Slide 17. So here some things got added. A this section up here tells the moderator whether or not any points of order have been raised, and the one below it tells the moderator whether or not a question has been called. I think we already discussed at our last meeting the need to have both local and remote people on the list in chronological order, so that hasn't changed, but it was very embarrassing. I spelled the last name of New Zealand's Prime Minister incorrectly, and I was correct, so that's now correct. Lynne Dunbrack: It's alright, Dave. It makes you feel any better. We had a guest vendor come in, potential client, or they may have been clients at the time, and we had dutifully named all of our conference rooms like capitals and big major cities, and Auckland was one of them, and we had it misspelled on the conference room. Well done. Our Kiwi guests were very quick to gently point out, in a very polite way that we misspelled it. Big City. Yeah, David Bernstein: yep. Not good. Okay, slide 21 so this is just the remote participants view of the speaker queue. And you know, it's just too bad we don't have any graphic designers in this team. We're good at everything except graphic design, so I've just got l's and R's in here to designate local and remote. Doubtless we could have some icons created that better illustrate that. But Lynne Dunbrack: so on on. The question here for Jacinda, is that calling the question or they have a point of order question. This is, David Bernstein: this is just she wants to ask a question. Oh, okay, Miranda S. Jones: that's more like point of order. But you know what? You raise a good point, which I discussed with Dave recently, and the software program could be created so that whatever the person is, is what, whatever their purpose is to speak, it can be ranked because moderators are supposed to, depending upon what the nature of the reason is for the person to be at the microphone, they have a certain ranking that moderators are supposed to adhere to, so that, for example, motions to terminate debate are ranked higher than other motions. For example, motions to amend and you could, and that's. In town meeting time, and you could build that into the software program so it actually takes, it could obviate the need to have that scrum in front of the moderators, you know, podium, because, you know, there's often people coming up saying, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to speak. And so the moderator has to figure out who gets to talk next, and if they, if people, regardless of if they're at home or they're in person, if they log in, this is, this is me, and this is what I want to talk about. This is why I'm approaching I mean, the Pro and the con microphones are pretty easy, except what for the people who are in person, but the rest of it, you could have the software rank everybody for the moderator, which would make it more efficient? David Bernstein: Yep, and that could be, that could be set up so that each moderator could choose his or her own ranking, because they might not. Miranda S. Jones: That's the thing, Dave, is that moderators aren't supposed to Tom meeting time. Oh, really, a cover of Tom meeting time, it dictates what is well, then Don Schuler: the software will be easier. Yeah, I have a question, do you actually have multiple screens? Or what happens when you're looking at this and then you also want to hear what the person is saying? And David Bernstein: no, you only have one screen. And Don Schuler: as we envisioned it, if you just flip between David Bernstein: back to, you know, you'd go back to speaker or listen or whatever. I think you click return here to go back to that may not be the most well, Don Schuler: how about if you're, how about if you're, you're, you're listening to one of the people talking in the pro or con area. And then you decide I want to get on the list too
well. Then you stop hearing the person that that's talking. I David Bernstein: i assume the way this would work is that you, at all times hear Tom meeting audio, no matter what you're doing, unless you're speaking, okay, you'd have the audio. Yeah, you'd always have town meeting audio, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't Don Schuler: necessarily have the transcript into into text. David Bernstein: Now, you know, if we want to get sophisticated, we could say that, if the user has a tablet, we could, you know, divide it up into two vertical panes, so you could do two things at once. You could have, you know, one thing showing the speaker queue and the other one, but that other one showing a page like this, or the real time transcription. But I think that's, you know, that's an optimization to be considered later. Okay, but you're right. We have to make sure that when you're doing something other than listening to the current speaker and seeing that transcription, or seeing video, that when you go to other screens that you don't, you don't get disconnected from town meeting because you can't hear anything anymore. So that's an important point. Yeah, I don't think we ever specified it. So Lynne Dunbrack: for the for the in person, folks like Boris and Emmanuel. How did they? How do they register, register themselves on this queue? Is this David Bernstein: something that I think we talked about this. We talked about this at the last meeting. The low tech. There's a couple ways to do it. The low tech way is to post a person in a staff person at each microphone with a tablet, who, every time someone approaches the microphone, queries them for their name and enters that into the system right away, so that they're just there. The high tech way would be, you know, even with clickers, every the system knows that my handset, b4 71 is Dave Bernstein, so if we could change the clicker design so that if you push four, it means you want to speak in favor. If you push five, you want to speak against. If you push six, you want to ask a question, so your name would get entered into the queue that way. So somewhere in between those two extremes is what we'd end up doing. Got it and of course, it gets easy if everybody's using this application on premises, but that's not t equals zero, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, but you know what, Dave it just to that point, using a clicker, that four equals this five using one and two is easy enough. THE MODERATOR reminds people, but the other way wouldn't. However, what I would also say is this creates more accurate record for the town clerk when, when she's she's taking notes, and to have a listing of everybody who spoke is so much easier for her, too. Yep, just another benefit from David Bernstein: this. So at minimum, we just have to post a staff person in each microphone to record people's names as they approach the microphone. Yeah? So that that's a guaranteed, you know, we know we can make that work, yeah? Something better. We will. I agree with you that pushing buttons on the clicker not, ideally, not going to work, yeah, too complicated for people. Larry Krakauer: Well, actually, collecting names is not that easy. I mean, you know, people say their names, but really you'd almost have to stop them and ask them for spam. Selling in many cases true. David Bernstein: Well, maybe not Larry, because remember, only people who check in can speak. So the the tablets that people the staff uses could have a list of all legal speakers and just type in the first few letters of their name, and you've got it just like we is exactly like what we do when people check in now on the check in stations, so I think that can be facilitated.
Other Other questions on this slide, slide 21 or comments or suggestions. Okay, let's move on to Slide 26 Okay, so this is a list of things that I have accumulated. Some of them we've already discussed, showing the remote participants the name of the current speaker. A number of moderators pointed out that in their world, people can actually submit a text file with an amendment. So coming up with some way to support that. This would be trivial. If people were using desktops where they could prepare, you know, a text file or a Word document and send it. You know, if people are using their phones or tablets, they would somehow have to get their amendment into their phone or their tablet in order to be able to submit it. We have to think about how to, how to, how to come up, what way to support that we don't allow this, do we? Miranda,
Miranda S. Jones: I don't know. It's, it's so I'm debating this right now. I'm having an ongoing debate with Dennis Barry about changing the way we do amendments. So amendment has to, if it's more than 10 words, it has to be in writing, right? People bring amendments all the time to town meeting, emotions to amend the the article that's being presented. Sometimes do it. You know, you have to file amendment within 48 hours of Tom eating, or at least before, with within 48 hours of town meeting. And so all the amendments come beforehand. And so Dennis and I've been debating, should we think about doing something like that to make Tom meeting more efficient so people are more prepared so and but does that then deprive the ability to amend on the spot? Sometimes issues come up that maybe no one had thought about. So I don't know what the answer David Bernstein: you could argue that the need for an amendment doesn't become obvious until there's some discussion that reveals it that Miranda S. Jones: could have exactly No. I completely agree. And I can cite an example of one by law that we almost passed several years ago, and it had to do with sex offenders. And I remembered somebody. Everyone thought this. It was the chief of police brought it. Everyone thought this would be a no brainer article, and it was defeated because of the debate that flowed from it. And I don't remember if it was amended or not, but it's just things can change at Tom meeting that you don't you don't anticipate. David Bernstein: So the worst case here is that some remote participant has a brainstorm like that debate and wants to submit an amendment that's more than 10 words, yes. Miranda S. Jones: So we have to figure out how to how to factor that into the Yeah, into the software. Because if we are going to truly offer remote participation, then they need to be able to fully participate. We said this is not remote voting, so maybe remote voting might be one thing, but we're asking for remote participation, so they have to be able to figure out how to amend, if they so desire. And I don't know what the answer is to that, yeah, David Bernstein: just, I just an idea just popped into my head that the person could write their amendment on a piece of paper, you know, in their kitchen, and then have their camera take a picture of it Miranda S. Jones: and scan it in. Scan it? Yeah, the effect David Bernstein: it would have to do character recognition. You just have, I mean, you'd end up with that piece of paper in front of you, the moderator, and you could then read the amendment. Miranda S. Jones: But why couldn't? Why couldn't they, if they're if they're on their phones, why couldn't they type it in? Why couldn't there be some way it's just like you're typing a text message or an email David Bernstein: typing on a phone is not a skill that everybody has, but Lynne Dunbrack: there's voice recognition. Yeah, yeah, they would just have to hit Oh yeah. You know, yeah, when Miranda S. Jones: I taught my husband that a few years ago, it's changed his world. That's recognition, David Bernstein: yep. So that Lynne Dunbrack: actually gotten really good, because I have discovered that DEP, if I was texting with somebody, and then put my phone down, it will start to transcribe a phone meeting I'm on, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, yeah, if you mean, if you forget to shut off the microphone. So I put Lynne Dunbrack: that down, and I was like, Oh, my God, my my phone is typing and it is literally transcribing, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, what was being said? What's cool about that is, and actually really well, David Bernstein: what's cool is that that means that anytime anybody wants to make an amendment that could be captured, whether it's 10 words or or yep or not, and again, you're back to, you know, records for the town clerk, right? Yep. Unknown: Actually. Larry Krakauer: True. I use voice recognition all the time on texting, but I find I always have to edit, agreed. Well, not always, but often, if it's short and often, yes, yeah, David Bernstein: okay, well, that was productive. Okay. I love this one. Enable the moderator remote participants to sequence through multiple color schemes. You know, some people are color blind, so you have to be able to, you know, tolerate give people options there. We talked about this one at the last our last meeting, that if somebody who registered to participate remotely changed their mind and shows up on premises to allow them to check in and then instantly disable them from participating remotely for the remainder of that session. So twice, wouldn't Unknown: the software just do that? Yes, you would think so required, David Bernstein: but it's a requirement. So we want to, you know, want to capture it Lynne Dunbrack: just to play devil's advocate. What happens they come in, they do their big, big vote. You know, they come in to give and then they go home. So do we have the ability or people just decide to go home? Well, at 10, David Bernstein: I arbitrarily wrote it down as once you check in on premises, that's it for that session. You can't go back and remotely participate, just because I wanted to make sure there wasn't some hole where somebody could end up voting twice, we could certainly relax that if we were confident in the technology, Lynne Dunbrack: yup. Well, I'm just, I'm just thinking of like parents who might be able to come in for one vote, but then need to go home because they have to really care babysitter, you know, especially if you have a meeting that goes super David Bernstein: late. So the problem is, I mean, the work devil's advocate. You know, I I'm at on I've registered on premises. I'm checked in. I leave town meeting, but I don't check out somehow, and so the system still thinks I'm there, and then I go home and vote. I don't know, but that way I'm still not voting twice, Lynne Dunbrack: yeah, unless you've given your headset, your handset and slipped out now your proxy voting with yourself. It's just an interesting thing to think about, is what happens? Because that'll be the thing is, like someone will, you know, I can see the inevitable. It's 1030 I want, I need to go home. And really, yeah, David Bernstein: yeah. We should make it as flexible as we can, so long as we maintain the integrity of the system from a voting point of view, agreed. Okay, show the article, the current articles, time remaining, and the current speakers, time remaining. That's auto you know, the bigger point here is that moderators are pretty resistant to remote participation in general. You know, when Miranda tried talking to the mass moderators Association about this, he got a lot of negative feedback. I did.
Miranda S. Jones: It was not pretty. David Bernstein: Most of it comes down to inertia. I mean, they know how to do what they're doing. Now, this threatens to make their meetings much bigger and have to deal with people who aren't physically in front of them. Miranda S. Jones: Well, I also, I don't necessarily think that it was, I don't think it was necessarily that they were afraid of more people participating. I think it was that they would have to learn how to do it differently. And that's an and I you know, the moderators are a fairly diverse group. There's about 20% of them are women. I couldn't tell you what the ages, the ages are, but there's a lot of older men. Not that that's something negative, per se, but they also, but they seem to be very and, you know, I'm one of the older ones at 61 so, so, but, but my attitude is like the Tom wants us, we got to make this happen. But I always think change is a good thing. So, I mean, that's how progress happens. Nevertheless, some of them are stuck in the sort philosophically about, but Tom meeting is supposed to be all in one place, you know, on on the town green type of thing, and which is very archaic, that thinking, but, but I would say a majority of the people who aren't in the philosophical philosophical school are the ones that are afraid of the security of the vote and getting hacked and have not listened to Dave's presentation, and therefore are afraid because they haven't sat through this PowerPoint, and so they don't realize that a number of very smart people who are in this field have have Been looking at all these issues for several years now, and have come up with ways to combat the problems as the as they're presented. So anyway, so there's a there's a we don't have their we don't have the authority to that. We don't have their recommendation or support yet. But that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. And listen, we have a few towns that want to do it, and so that's what we're going that's how we're going forward. David Bernstein: So the point I was trying to make here is that anything we can do to make things easier for the moderator will help us, because it will, it will facilitate their being willing to give it a try and. And along the same lines, the moderator needs to be able to select the motion that will be the subject of the next vote. Make that easy to do. Miranda, the more, the more I think about this stuff, the more I think that remote participation, at least in a town like Wayland, is almost always going to require an assistant moderator to do some of these tasks. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, I'm sure you, I'm sure you're probably right. You know, when we get it past Dave, then when we get the permission to be able David Bernstein: to well, and we'll be doing a ton of testing so we'll be able to see what Unknown: we're doing, yeah, David Bernstein: but you know, anyway, Miranda S. Jones: if any of you can think of who would like this job as assistant moderator, please let me know. Lynne Dunbrack: And honestly, I think some of this would help the in person people like, I think, because sometimes it is confusing when you're you know, on the gym floor or the field floor, like which, which amendment Are We Now voting for? Like voting for the first one or the second one. So, Miranda S. Jones: and that's on the moderator to be very clear as to what it is to make sure before people vote, that they know exactly what they're voting on, whether it's the main motion or one of the amendments or some ancillary motion. David Bernstein: Okay, any more comments on this slide? Any more additional requirements? Anyone's thought up while we were debating this? Okay, let's move on to Slide 29 so here, I'm not sure exactly what changed. This is the same audit table. We've already always had talked about the designated auditors. I think maybe it's this, and that's the idea that designated auditors don't Is it? Um, designated auditors don't report discrepancies by clicking the report discrepancy button the way that a non designated auditor would, they actually send a text, a text message to a moderator smartphone that's programmed to only accept messages from those designated auditors. So in security terms, it's an out of band report mechanism so that if a designated auditor sees a problem, the moderator hears about it without any Reliance or dependence on the voting system or the town meeting system at all. So it's just a technologically upgraded way of informing the moderator, because my recommendation would be, if even one designated auditor reports a discrepancy, that means we're, you know, somebody's twisting votes over the internet, and this just gives us a more reliable way of conveying that information. Any comments on that? Lynne Dunbrack: Yeah, I remember. So I was actually confused by this, mostly like, why was the that person called out for being a discrepancy? Like, I was looking at the chart going, it kind of looked like the other items. So, and maybe there's a detailed question you can answer offline. It's not, I don't want to derail I didn't David Bernstein: quite catch the question. Lynne Dunbrack: Lynn, so you go back one of the slides, I think it was, or maybe the build this one. No, no, it was the, yeah, that. So why? Why is that particular entry? I'm assuming that's called out as having a discrepancy, because it's, it's so David Bernstein: this is, this entry is highlighted because it's supposed to indicate that this the person whose shoulder we're looking over the remote participant. That's their secret voter code, yep, and they see that their vote was recorded Yes, and that's what tells them that their vote was recorded correctly. And if not, they push the report discrepancy button. Oh, Lynne Dunbrack: all right, so this is a self report by the by the meeting attendee, right? David Bernstein: And then the other thing here is that there's running totals of yeses and no's and there's, there should be a total line that shows the total yeses and no's, and the moderator announces the remote vote as well as the total vote. So everybody who's auditing, if they want to, can confirm that the arithmetic was done correctly, that what the moderators chose was the remote vote matches, which adds up at the bottom of the audit table. And since these are all running counts, it's easy to check the arithmetic,
Lynne Dunbrack: quick except for the total. Totals don't add up to all the yeses in the there's, well, David Bernstein: there's three yeses and there's four nos. And there they are, and you can see them. They're not the yes column increments every time there's a yes, and the no column increments every time there's a no, and the abstain column increments every time there's an abstain, so 341, is the total of that vote. Lynne Dunbrack: Okay, so you're not, you're not counting the the total of,
Unknown: I get it, I think I get it. Yeah. Lynne Dunbrack: So if you look at the if you're doing this as an Excel spreadsheet, you one would think. That the yes column would be the total of that which is more David Bernstein: than Oh, but we're doing it as a running count, so that people who don't have calculators in front of them can just follow along and say yep, every time there was a yes vote, every time there was a no vote, yep, the no column increased, and I can see the totals adding up to what the moderator ultimately announces, Lynne Dunbrack: I see. Okay, Don Schuler: so there's, so there's going to be a line here for every remote person or every person, yep, okay. David Bernstein: And you know, it's a scrollable table, and it's scrollable table, and I think, I think the way it will likely work is that you type in the first few letters of your voter code and that, you know, it narrows it down, and then you select it, and Lynne Dunbrack: it's going to validate that you and this, you and the code are equal, so that you couldn't just decide, I'm going to, like, fool around with This and click on anybody's David Bernstein: Well, I mean, clicking on this does nothing other than highlight the row that when you report a discrepancy, you're just reporting a discrepancy as as the owner of this remote participants device. It's not like you can report a fake a discrepancy from somebody else. If you click the Report discrepancy button, it's you who logged in here. Lynne Dunbrack: Oh, so it's highlighting you on the screen. Yes, David Bernstein: I just did that for presentation purposes. Lynne Dunbrack: Okay, so So you would, so you either only, you'd only see your own record. David Bernstein: Well, no, you'd see, because the system. You don't want the system to know who you are from a secret voter code point of view, correct. The system shows all the secret voter codes you scroll around or type in a few letters to find, to find yours, but, but that's just so you can see that your vote was correctly received. That's the only thing that does. The selection here has no impact on what happens if you click the Report discrepancy button, if you click the Report discrepancy button, if you're logged in here with the you know, the Lynn Dunbar username and password, then the discrepancy comes from Lynn Dunbar independent of what you did here. Okay, Lynne Dunbrack: and you can only report your own quote, your own discrepancy, and not all these other ones. Okay, David Bernstein: correct, correct. Don Schuler: But you said there's a limited number of auditing people, or what did they call them? Oh, designated. David Bernstein: Well, there can be as many as the moderator chooses to recruit. And I would argue that we want more rather than less, because the more of these there are the higher the fraction number of people that are auditing every single they're auditing their vote every single vote, but which means we have a better chance of detecting tamper. Unknown: But this table is not just the designated audience auditors. This is everyone who's voted right, and the designated auditors are basically, in some sense, just a minimum number of people who are going to audit it. And if everybody wants to designate themselves as being an auditor and check it, all the better, right? We David Bernstein: want many remote participants to audit their vote as possible. We want to encourage that, but we can't guarantee that they will. The designated auditors are people who the moderator knows and recruits who basically agree, yes, I will audit my vote every single time. Unknown: But the system doesn't know who they are. That's correct, and that's an important thing, because if the system knew who they were, it can make sure it doesn't screw their vote around, just everybody else's. Yep. David Bernstein: Yeah, good point. And that's how this out of band reporting system works, because the discrepancy report isn't conveyed by the by the system. It's conveyed completely independently of the of the town meeting system. Are you worried about? Say that there's 300 people remotely logged in, and everyone is is checking their vote. You know, some people could forget their vote, or something like that, and you might get a lot of people claiming there's a discrepancy, and there is, and that's another reason for having a designated auditors, there are going to be some members who will get confused and get the wrong line here or something, and we may get a few discrepancies that are noise. So that's why the distinction is a discrepancy from a designated auditor one, and we're done discrepancies from the general public in the absence of discrepancies. Here, you might, you know, be willing to tolerate a few, and testing will tell us how well this works. Unknown: But the same thing with handsets, the handset basically set, you know, at the end says you, you know, voted yes or whatever, and you're supposed to look at it and make sure it's right. And you know, you could say, well, 1000 people, 100 people, are going to say, Oh, I got it wrong. But the reality is, typically, the ones who come up and say they got it wrong are the ones, when you talk to them, who voted wrong. You know, they just did. They you said, I hit, you know, plus or whatever, and it didn't vote yes. So I don't think it's a historically, I don't think it's a problem. David Bernstein: You know, the testing will tell us, because we're going to test with high school kids, we're going to test with senior citizens, you know, before we do this live and we'll, we'll get some sense of how good are people at being able to do this, and how many bogus discrepancy reports do we get, Don Schuler: you know, with the handset, there was a couple times we did an audit, but everybody kind of trusted it after that, and nobody bothers to do what happened, you know, so, so I think it could be the same thing once, once people feel confident that it hasn't shown up, you know, after a Couple of town meetings, that they'll they'll be less checking going on once they feel right. Miranda S. Jones: That would be a mistake, though, agreed. You'd still want the designated David Bernstein: audit, no matter what these these, yeah, way as reliable auditors, but we always want some number of designated auditors. Okay? THE MODERATOR could encourage people to audit their vote. Yeah, okay. Unknown: On this slide, Larry Krakauer: I somehow this seems complicated. I mean, the or it the auditing is harder than just having your own handset and checking your vote. You've got to know how to look up your audit code. And so it takes very little to confuse people, in a way that seconds the importance of the designated auditors, right? They will know what they're doing. Most people probably will not and will just ignore this capability altogether. It's kind of confusing. David Bernstein: Well, you know, this is the heart of how we detect tampering with boats over the internet. So the good news is that it works. The bad news is that it may be too complicated for some people, and the question is, is there a better way to do it? I don't know of one. You know, if we come up with a better one, we should certainly consider it, but, but you know, to be able to have votes go over the internet and keep them private, remember, I mean, if you just have everybody's public votes were public, this would be trivial, because it would just say Dave Bernstein, yes, and everybody could see I voted yes. I could see I voted yes. But it's when you replace people's names with secret voter codes in order to maintain the privacy of the vote is what makes it, I think, more more complicated. Larry,
Larry Krakauer: yeah, yeah, I that's the importance of the designated auditors. Because, in some sense, people who are not designated auditors might not be doing this very much. So, so you need the designated I might say, I don't know whether this is any importance, but Miranda was talking about, you know, moderators, thinking about the good old days of small towns and everybody knows each other, and the traditional town meeting and so on. That you may recall, the traditional town meeting was why I was initially reluctant to consider secret votes. The traditional town meeting did not have secret votes. Stood up for what you were going to vote for, and let people see it. Miranda S. Jones: In this town,
Unknown: that's courage that you're putting on we put on other people that it's unfair. They just want to vote. They want to vote with their hearts, their minds and their pocketbooks. They don't they should not have to, quote, unquote, stand up and show their vote, because they could be harassed. David Bernstein: Larry's point, it wasn't that we should restore that. He's just pointing out that at the inception of town meeting, that's how it worked. Miranda S. Jones: Well, Dave and I raised this issue when we've we've done these presentations about Wayland was a very private vote for a long for a long time, and not all Tom meetings open. Tom meetings are like that. A lot of people do secret ballots, and we never did until electronic voting came. And then all of a sudden, we switched from a public vote to a very private vote, and the town has embraced that to the point where my first town meeting was a special town meeting when we had that one warrant article town meeting in December of 2023 and we did a secret ballot rather than going since we didn't, since the Select Board did not vote to have electronic voting, since there was just one more in Article, because it's so expensive, we had, rather than going back to the shout out vote that we used to do, we did a secret ballot, because everyone's gotten used to private voting and so, so I mean it, and that is the uniqueness of town meeting. Every town is a little bit different. How Tom meeting is done, and Wayland has changed. It has morphed over the last 14 years. With electronic voting. And this is yet another change, but the town wants it because, because it so more people can participate. Larry Krakauer: So I said clearly, it clearly is what people want. That's absolutely, yeah. David Bernstein: Any other comments on this slide? A good discussion. Alright, one, see, we're 20, so 41 so this is a point I want to make explicit here we have two pieces of legislation before the legislature, one a Home Rule petition. The other is statewide legalization. So everybody has endorsed the statewide bill. I'm getting ahead of myself, but the League of Women Voters, the mass Municipal Association, and so our position is, ideally, we'll get statewide approval. Short of statewide approval, we'd like to have at least Wayland and two other towns get approval so that we can get started on building software, because nobody's going to build the software until it's made legal. So this may be a little bit of a switch, where, in the past, we were kind of focused on our home rule petition, and then, oh yeah, there's the statewide bill as well. We're explicitly asking for the statewide bill first. Now that doesn't mean we're not going to test the hell out of this before. You know, we encourage anybody else to use it, but I just wanted to make that flip explicit here for everybody comments or questions. Okay, so 44 these are all the town that you guys know. This is all the towns we talked to. 44 is a summary of current legislation. So this is a little repetitious. 2272 is our home rule petition submitted by Representative Gentile, along with Representative Linsky, who's also a Wayland congressperson, and our senator Eldridge. HD 965, has to do with Lexington town meetings, which are representative. So it's not, has not, not relevant. 2274 is a statewide bill I was just talking about. We're now up to 10 co sponsors of that bill. The League of women's voters has jumped on this with both feet. They have run two different webinars for us, one for all league members, and a second one for all legislators, and we ended up with 100 people showing up at each one of those webinars. Nancy brumbach, who is the league's legislative director, has just been incredibly helpful, but she's put in tons of hours and tons of time and got lots of resources for us, and we have a lot to thank them for. The turning point was when they realized that our solution for conveying votes over the internet was indeed secure. That was for them. That was that was when the light bulb went on. Before that they just didn't trust it.
Something new, as of last week, Senator Barrett, who's a Senator for Concord, Weston Carlisle, has submitted a bill that is identical textually, to this statewide bill, but he submitted to the Senate. Senator Barrett is the assistant Senator Majority Leader. There's two of them, but he's one of them. So he is the first member of legislative leadership who has, in a high profile way, jumped on board of supporting what we're doing. And as best as I can figure out, it's legislative leadership that decides whether or not this committee, which is where our bill is right now, will either, you know, refer us for study, as has happened the last two legislative sessions, or will actually give us the go ahead to move move on, which would take our bill to the Ways and Means Committee, which is another story, all by itself. So this was a huge victory. I think a couple weeks ago, Miranda and I went into the state house, along with two people from Concord who we've been working with, and we presented to Senator Barrett. So he's seen this presentation we're looking at now. He reacted very positively, I think. And he has, you know, he's helping us as as much as we could ask. So I'm very happy about that these bills get into a cold, different, competing matter, and that is, they address not just town meetings, but public meetings. Public meetings are meetings governed by the Open Meeting Law. And the problem is that some of these bills want to make hybrid public meetings mandatory, and some of them want to make hybrid public meetings optional, and the League of women's voters wants them to be mandatory, and the Massachusetts Municipal Association wants them to be optional, because small towns can't necessarily afford it, and there's a debate between the House and the Senate. So we're basically done. King that set of disagreements, because the two bills we're pushing are statewide bills that only address how needed. Okay, anyway. Any comments about this or questions? Okay, so does anybody have a problem with me releasing this version of the presentation as a public document, so that it will go on our website, Towns website? So is there a motion to to make this public? Lynne Dunbrack: Any John can be moved, and I'll be second. David Bernstein: Okay. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed hearing nothing, the vote will be recorded as unanimous. Thank you, everybody. I know that was a lot to go through, but we had to go through it. Okay? Don Schuler: I have one question. You know, you mentioned that if it's a represent representative town meeting. They actually do have a remote participation at this point. But David Bernstein: what do they have? It sounds like they I don't know. Do they have the capability to do debating and make amendments and everything like we were going to do for our voting? At least two towns have been using a combination of zoom and a product called V voter, which is made by oti, our friends oti. So they zoom for remote speaking and listening, and they use V voter for remote voting, and it's public voting. The problem is, and I've heard this both from I've heard it from the moderator of Plymouth, and I know it's a problem in Lexington, is that the 200 or so delegates, the people, the representatives who vote, get confused, having to switch between the two. So every time I do that presentation for somebody who's had that experience, they say, this is exactly what we need, because our representatives get confused having to move to separate applications when they want to vote or speak or listen. And I've actually heard from Mark fight that he feels the same way that you know, what we've developed here, this integrated town meeting system that just leads the remote participant through the steps is exactly what everybody needs, even representative town meeting. And my guess is you're going to see Mark moving in that direction at oti. It's to the point where, in Lexington, one of the Select Board members who evidently has a software background, basically wrote a remote participation application for representative town meeting, and they're using that in Lexington, and we might want to talk to him about that, just to get a sense for what he did. But any other questions before we move on? Okay, so the next thing, the next document, is this one. Yes, this one. No. Wrong place documents. The next document is this one. So one of the challenges we face, and we don't face it directly, is that we're told that the Secretary of State, Mr. Galvin, is not comfortable with using the Internet to convey votes, and that his discomfort is the reason that during the pandemic, remote participation in representative town meeting was made legal, but remote participation in open town meeting was not there's a woman who reports to the Secretary of State. She's the director of elections. Her name is Michelle passenari. We had some interaction with her many years ago having to do with check in at town meeting with electronic voting. So she's not a stranger. So we have tried hard to convince director test scenario and Secretary of State Galvin that that we can make town meet remote participation accurate and secure. And so, with some help from Larry and John last, last, last April, we wrote up. This is basically a text version of the presentation with a few slides in there, and you can see it was done before I changed this to town meeting system, so it's an interesting thing to read. You know, it shouldn't be any different than what the presentation is. The reason for bringing it up is we've yet to hear any response from either of them, we heard indirectly that director Tom gave this document to her, quote, cybersecurity team who has questions, but all of our attempts to get to be able to engage with them, to understand their questions, or to answer their questions, or to give them a presentation, have not succeeded. So. We've asked Senator Barrett we talked about before, who's evidently good friends with Mr. Galvin, to please intercede on our behalf and arrange for us to have a conversation. Still hasn't happened. So exactly how much resistance we're getting from this? I don't know. No one's ever come to us and said, Well, we passed this, except Secretary Galvin is peeing all over it. That's not we don't know that that's happening, but my view is that any opposition is bad opposition, and so we're just trying as hard as we can to get an opportunity to understand what their concerns are and address them, Miranda S. Jones: right? But also remembering that Secretary Galvin runs, he's in charge of the elections, this is, this is something completely different than town meeting, which is the legislative body for each individual town. So, so, so you think, okay, he runs elections. This really has nothing to do with Secretary Galvin. It really doesn't. The other thing is, the legislature isn't governed by Secretary Galvin. He's an elected official. He's very He's unique. He's in the executive branch of government. The legislature is the legislative branch. So in some respects, who cares what Secretary Galvin thinks it really doesn't matter. And also, my understanding is that not that many people in the state legislature particularly respect Secretary Galvin. So in some regards, I think we focus. We should focus more of our effort on on getting the people to focusing on our bills that are pending and trying to get support within the legislature, rather than Secretary Galvin, yes, it would be nice to have His blessing, but I don't know. Michelle test Mary, clearly, is avoiding us, yeah. Well, some respects, you David Bernstein: could, I don't. I don't disagree. I'm perhaps a little more, you know, trying Miranda S. Jones: to eliminate any and all obstacles, yeah, and I understand why, David Bernstein: yeah. So we're not spending any time on this. I mean, you know, we I ping them occasionally, but we're not doing anything other than trying to get time with Miranda S. Jones: them. Yeah, no, I understand it would be great to have His blessing, but, but I wouldn't. I just want David Bernstein: to keep everybody here informed of what's understandable. Yeah, so any questions about that one, alright, let's move on to item 7c so the end of last April, Miranda and I journeyed into the state house and we met with the co chair, the house, co chair of the municipalities and regional government committee, we presented the presentation you just saw, and the chair, Jack Lewis, and his staff, were very attentive. They gave us a full hour. They asked really good questions. They didn't tip their hand or anything. But I felt like we got a fair hearing, and I was really happy that we were able to do that. So that went well. I think I already mentioned this in item D, that the League of women's voters and the Massachusetts Municipal Association have, in fact, endorsed the this bill, H, 2274 which is the statewide bill. I don't know that we need to look at that endorsement. Keep bringing up the wrong folder here. Sorry. So here's the League of women's voters endorsement, endorsing age 2274 so the endorsements great, the help we're getting from Nancy brumbach is irreplaceable. She's just incredible. And we're we've learned a ton. I should also point out that rep Gentile has an assistant, a legislative assistant named Simon. Ravi Robbie Simon, and he's been also extremely helpful. He's put a ton of time into this. He's educated us, and he's advocating for us. So really, can't be unhappy with the support we're getting, comments or questions. Here's another really good thing. In early June, Concord town meeting approved an article asking the Select Board to file a Home Rule petition along the lines of waylands, that article passed the Select Board is in the process of writing up the legislation. As we speak, I already mentioned this, which is the League of Women Voters, held a webinar for their chapters. There were 95 people who participated. There's video, if you haven't looked at it, if you want to watch what Miranda and I basically do our dog and pony show, but it was very good, and we got some really good questions that were fun to answer. A couple of weeks later, the league hosted a webinar for all state legislators and their staff. I actually have an analysis of that of the attendees, so let's see, do I have that? Yes. Okay, so this is that there were 101 people who showed up for the for the legislative webinar. 78 of them actually attended, and 19 did not. And so there were several senators who. Spoke Senator Barrett and Senator Eldridge. There are several people who endorse Dave Kaufman is a legislative director of the mass Municipal Association. They carry a ton of weight. In this process, we had 25 legislators or legislative staff members, and interestingly, we had 42 people who weren't legislators, but were town clerks, were town managers or town administrators Select Board members. So somehow or another, the news of this webinar leaked out, and a lot of town people ended up participating. So again, we got some good questions, and it was all up. You know, thanks to the League of Women Voters that we got to speak directly to a lot of people who will make can make a difference in all this. Any questions about this? Okay, let me get back to the agenda. Okay, so then I guess this was last month or late last, late in July, Miranda I Tom Fay, a number of people testified before the municipal and regional government committee. When you testify, you get three minutes, but you can submit written testimony. And I submitted written testimony as did Miranda, as did Tom, the written testimony I submitted was a version of the document we sent to Director passenari And the Secretary of State. And the only reason I want to bring it up is that a couple months ago, on Wayland social media, I asked people if they felt disenfranchised by the lack of remote participation. And two people responded. They sent me notes. One was Alexandra puglio. Another was Heather Ryan and I decided to append a section to that document I spoke of called Voices of disenfranchised Wayland voters, in which I basically quoted what they said. You know, Alexandra, it cost her $150 just to go to town meeting one night because she had to get health care or child care for her children. And Heather has multiple sclerosis. She can't attend. She wants to, and I thought the passion of both of them wanting to attend, but being unable to, would hopefully have an impact on the committee. And then my closing line, we're not asking for money, we're just asking for permission. Hopefully that will help as well. Unknown: Yeah, hmm, David Bernstein: any comments or questions about this stuff?
Okay, I feel like I'm getting a degree in civics. So item h, this is pretty cool. I asked Mark fight to submit testimony to the committee, and he did so here's his testimony, in which he basically talks about what we're doing and why we're doing it, supports it, and makes the point that nobody's going to write the software until it's made legal. And that was the key message we wanted him to send, and he sent it so very happy with that. Mark has been very helpful in doing this. Any comments or questions about that? A possible third town for a Home Rule position is Weston. Weston's moderator, guy named rip Hastings is very supportive. There's three members of their Select Board. They only have three, and one of them is gung ho on remote participation and thinks at least one of the other one is as well. So they're moving towards getting a Home Rule petition. We'll probably have to go and present to them, but that seems to be working pretty well. So that's just a status report. So that completes a rather lengthy hour and 15 minute discussion of remote participation. Are there any comments or questions about any of this?
Lynne Dunbrack: No, I think we raised them through the course of the discussion. Good, okay, for myself, I should say, David Bernstein: anybody else? All right, so let's then move on to Item eight, which is the Elvis annual report. So let me bring that up. Everybody see that? Okay, yep, okay, so Trudy already submitted her correction, which is changing FY 2024 to FY 2025 The question is, is there anything else in here that needs to change? So does anybody have any comments?
Lynne Dunbrack: No comments David Bernstein: for me. Okay, Don John, yep.
Unknown: Larry seems good. David Bernstein: Okay. Do I have a motion to submit this report as written as the FY 2025, Elvis annual report. So second? Unknown: What was the second John? Was the second John? I. Okay, okay, David Bernstein: all in favor, aye, any opposed, hearing no opposition, we'll record the vote as unanimous. Okay, so believe it or not, that is our agenda. That was the last non public item on the agenda in the wrong place. Where is the agenda? There's the agenda. So Robbie, is there any one out there who members of the public that have hands raised for public comment? Oh, I see none. Okay. Anyone here want to make closing remarks? Alan, yeah, Unknown: yes, I would love it to thank you. First, I want to say that in seeing what Elvis has done with remote participation, I'm amazed, and I compliment you all. You've taken it to a place that honestly, I didn't think where it was going to go, but you're there, and I think that you're going to close the deal. So what I wanted to say tonight was really two things. One of the just make an announcement. The other ones, I wanted to tell you a little story, but I figured I saved the best for last and do it reverse order. I just think that during because of my own life and what's going on and things that I've decided to resign from Elvis, and so I've always kind of fantasized, if I was a professor, that I would be Professor Emeritus. Okay, so I figure I must be Elvis emeritus. Maybe you could, maybe you could think of me that way. All right. So the other thing I want to tell you is is always like stories of origin. So I'm proud to tell you that 14 years ago, and Miranda just bought up the 14 years that this was after I was a select man. I was unelected, by the way, okay, and an event occurred at a town meeting where we were at an auditory at the high school. My wife and I were there, and it was an article having to do with the town center. I didn't like the article, and my wife didn't either. So when it came time to vote no, and in those days we had no electronic voting, you would stand up for the No, you'd stand up for the Yes, right? So we stood up for the No, and as we're standing there, and you know, they have to count you, so you're standing there for quite a while, like, remember that, right? They go around the audience and check you off on a sheet of paper. So there was a colleague of mine, and I'll keep names out of it, who was on the board of selectmen, all right? And he was, like, making little sounds, and I turned around, and he's making head motions to me to sit down. Like, sit down. You could just imagine that somebody with their head motioning you to sit down. So I felt kind of uncomfortable about that. And when the vote was over, and my wife and I were going home, I said to my wife, why the bleep does anybody have to know how we're voting? And then I said, Well, why the bleep does anybody have to know how anybody's voting? So a couple days later, I was watching the TV, and I saw Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, the TV show. And of course, they have little clickers on them, where people they get audience participation. So I looked up the show where they did some research, and I found that the company who handled the clickers on that show was out of Orlando, Florida, and they were options technologies, interactive. So I started working with Mark fight, and was getting him to give me quotes, what it would take to buy a system. And we were up around $200,000 now I have to, I'm going to be very honest and tell and tell you that the powers to be did not want this. And it's a really simple principle, if you give people privacy, then you're giving them power and you're giving away power. So government tends not to want to give away its power. So the government of Wayland did not want us to have its power. And I don't want to go into all the stories, but it was very evident, and other people could probably support this, if they give you their stories, their versions of it. So by the end of it, I came to Mark and I said, Look, you've done dental shows, you've done Las Vegas. You've done all this other stuff, but you've never done a New England town meeting. And there's like 241 towns and cities in Massachusetts. Look at the opportunity. What I'm asking you, Mark is give us a free trial, just one. And I know that was not. Small ask that was a big ask. So he said, Let me think about it. And a few days later, he came back and he says, Yes, I'll do that. And he sends me a fax describing what he's going to do for Wayland. Now you know, you may know that once you put an article in, you're allowed to change your motion as long as the moderator think it's within scope. So everything is secret except Dave Bernstein No, and George Harris, my favorite attorney, no, because he wrote me a motion of 25 words or less that would do it legally. So I walk up to the microphone, and everybody thinks I'm about to make a motion for $200,000 and there's people on on the batters deck, ready to kill me. Okay? And all of a sudden, I do it 25 words or less, free trial next spring, costs nothing, and I hear this sound go over the audience. So Dave and I had it planned. He was going to be at the at the microphone, and I would walk to different points in the auditorium. Dave would point out that if I was right there at the front row, I'd have much more volume, and I would seem like more than one vote. And if I would walk back to this spot in the middle of the auditorium, then sound would drop over, drop off, one over. What is it r squared? Or one over R? R squared? Right? R1, over r. So the drop the sound would drop in half. And if I walk to the back of the auditorium, so we put on a little demonstration like that. No, went well. So when it came time to vote. I'm going to tell you that every person at that audience yelled yay, in favor of the free trial. Minus one, okay, because when it came to Nay, I got one no. So that was it. That was that was the how people wanted this. And the reason is, they wanted their privacy. Their government didn't want their privacy, but they wanted their privacy. So I say to you that they wanted their privacy from the beginning. They didn't have to be convinced of it. They had gone through Well, 400 years. Is that? How old this technology was of yelling at town meeting, but they had gone through at least a decade of being exposed with by their vote and feeling harassed. Well, if they work for the town of Wayland, by their jobs, if they had kids in school system, they had fear that their kids wouldn't be selected for a team or get special instructions these, I'm not making this up. These are stories that came to us. So anyway, it came in, and my theory was this, it's called the puppy dog theory. Once you take the puppy dog home from the from the store, you don't want to give the puppy dog back. All I wanted to do was get the clickers into their hands and let them feel the privacy. And they've never let it go for 14 years, not even we, when we fell flat on our faces due to Wi Fi interference or because there was people plotting to get more than one clicker for themselves to really torpedo this thing. We still stayed strong, and we rewrote the rules and made sure it wouldn't happen again. And here we are, 14 years later. And Dave tell me how many communities now? More David Bernstein: than 70. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, might even me over 90 possibly. Unknown: Okay, so Miranda S. Jones: you started, you started a thing. Unknown: Yeah, it was a pebble in the pond, but you guys carried the ripples out to the way to the tidal wave. Okay, so here I am, Professor Elvis Emeritus, signing out. Okay, I'm sure we'll talk again. Have a nice night. All David Bernstein: right, thank you Alan. Thank you Alan. Thank you Alan. Thanks for all of it. Alan, Larry Krakauer: would not have happened without you. Yeah, thank Unknown: you. Thank you right. Bye, David Bernstein: bye. So obviously we're sad to that Alan has decided to retire, but that's his privilege. Miranda and I will start a recruiting drive to find someone who could take Alan's place. If you happen to know of anyone who would be a good candidate, please let us know, because we you know, but we will, we will go on and we will continue to carry the ball forward. So that's all I have. I think that's it for the meeting. Does anyone have any parting words? If not, thank you all for the time. This is a longer meeting than usual, hour and a half. But here we are at 857, I hereby declare the Meeting adjourned. Larry Krakauer: Do we need a motion to adjourn or not? You can make it. Larry, I. Okay, move we adjourn. David Bernstein: Second All in favor, aye, anyone opposed hearing nothing, the motion will be recorded as unanimous.
Larry Krakauer: Dave, where the handset, sorry, the hot spots. Any problem? I that, you know, they everything was working fine. So even if the hot spots were there, were they causing difficulty, David Bernstein: the only way to know that would be to record the number of retries that are required every time there's communication between the base station and a handset, and unless we go bug out the oti folks about that, that it's, it's, it's problem. Larry Krakauer: Yeah, so we don't know that. There was certainly no difficulty at any level that you know caused us to notice problems. David Bernstein: No Correct. I Unknown: mean, a symptom of that, a symptom of a problem would be, you know, there'd be a longer delay in the response, correct, and we didn't see any of that, pretty much things were instantaneous, David Bernstein: right from our testing. But you know, when there's 500 handsets, you know, 10% of them could be having to retry twice, and we wouldn't know it. So I think our rule has to be that we just don't tolerate hot spots, because we don't know how many of them would be required to actually cause problems. And given, you know, given the susceptibility, I think we just have to stay on top of that. Okay, so total unique voters was 597 which is three less than what we tell everybody is our average for town meeting attendance in Wayland. So I thought that was pretty interesting. So that was the the summary of how the meetings went after the meeting, Miranda indicated that she would like to consider reducing the duration of voting from 30 Seconds to 20 seconds, and we discussed that with Mark fight, and he said it would be fine, so long as we didn't have more than 400 voters. So Miranda, did you want to comment on this? Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, so it's interesting seeing the statistics now that okay, we could have done that on the second night, but we and periodically through the first one we didn't have over 400 people, we could have, I just I feel like when I say the window is open, that we're all just eyeballing each other for a lot of too long a time period. It just seems like it takes the voting period is just too long. And then I asked Tom meeting, and it the majority seemed to agree that the 30 minutes seemed unneces. 30 seconds seems unnecessary. But obviously we have the technical issues that when we have over 400 people, we would have to keep it at 30 seconds. So I'm not, I'm not married to the concept of doing 20 seconds. What do you people think? Do you think we do it, as long as I know that I have fewer than 400 people in attendance, or fewer, fewer than 400 people registered voters, voting, that I do it, or you see it fraught with problems. Lynne Dunbrack: I can see on the first night, if you had a situation where the attendance fluctuated, so maybe at the beginning it was around, you know, at the 400 threshold where it was okay to do 20 seconds. And then, you know, now we have a big article that everybody's, you know, wants to weigh in on. So now, you know, there's many more attendees, so now we have to flip to 30. How long do we stay at? 30 seconds before we can flip back to 20? Because now people have gone home because they made their big vote. I think maybe on on the last day where, you know, we don't typically have those big or not usually have those big articles for voting. You know, it's a pretty standard amount of people who come and it's not fluctuating up and down. You could probably get away that my concern, I guess, where I'm going with this is my concern would be, if you were flipping between 20 and 30 because of fluctuation, whether that might confuse some voters. I mean, I know it's only 10 seconds, so it shouldn't be a big deal either way. But, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, no, I think Lynne Dunbrack: that would be my and I'm not. I can be convinced either way, but I that would be my one concern. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, no, I, and I appreciate that. I, I I I think that if the town meeting knew that the issue is, there's a cap of 400 people, once there's 400 people, we have to go over to 30 seconds. As long as that was put out, made very, very public, then they would understand it. I guess my question then becomes is, am I able to know how many, how many handsets have been put out on every single warrant article? I mean, do we know that in real time? We do. We do so it is feasible for me to, you know, go through the first six, seven articles, doing it at 20 seconds, and then all of a sudden, somebody, I'm alerted on Article eight, we're up to, we're up to over 401 people. We have to convert to 30 seconds on and can oti go do the 20 to 32nd David Bernstein: I believe so exchange. Miranda S. Jones: I mean, so then it's feasible to do it. I just think the town, town meeting has to understand what what the issue is. And I think what you say, the threshold is 400 then they would appreciate it. So, I don't know. So I'm going to think about that a that. David Bernstein: And here's a suggestion for what we might try. Yep. Suppose we say that if at the beginning of the meeting there are 400 or fewer voters, we will start out with a 22nd voting window, and you the moderator, will announce that, yep, if at any time, do. During the meeting, the number of voters rises above 400 then the oti people will notify Elvis, and Elvis will come notify you, and you'll make an announcement that from now on, the voting window will be expanded to 30 seconds, okay, I would suggest that once the voting window expands to 30 seconds, it not be reduced again during that session. Okay, that's fair confuse people, yep. Okay. You know, as people get used to this, maybe later on, we can reduce it at the end of the meeting, if it's appropriate. But I would say to start, let's say we can start at 20 and raise it to 30, but once we get to 30, we keep it at 30 for the duration of the session. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, that's a fair compromise. I can see doing that I agree, because David Bernstein: that eliminates the problem Lin was concerned with. Yeah, Miranda S. Jones: no, I think that's, that's a good way of looking at it. Okay, okay, listen, I'm, I'm up for any suggestion, any and all suggestions about making Tom meeting move along more quickly and and to that end, there are a lot of other things being discussed about making that happen that don't necessarily involve Elvis. And if you want to hear about them, we can talk offline, but, but my goal is to get this done in one night, so it may not happen this next year. It may not happen the year after, but at some point it would be nice to routinely get it down to one night. One of the big ways of getting it done is by using utilizing the Consent Calendar and putting more articles on one consent calendar and getting a series of articles passed in one fell swoop. But we have to get the town used to it and that that comes with its own issues. So anyway, that's my goal. Is to make this more efficient. Okay, so David Bernstein: is everybody comfortable with the 20 to 30 proposal as a trial at the next town meeting? Unknown: Yes, yes. Sounds Larry Krakauer: like a simple proposal. I like it. There's really nothing rigid about this 400 threshold, right? This, this was, David Bernstein: well, it's oti. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, yeah.
David Bernstein: Mark likes it when we are consistent with his requirements. Okay, so I think we've disposed of items five and six. Let's now move on to remote participation, where we'll spend most of the time this evening. So the first thing I'd like to do is just remind everybody that there are two bills. 2272 is a home rule petition for Wayland alone that would allow us to do remote participation in our town meetings. 2274 is the same language, but statewide. Well, everybody in the state to be able to do this. So I want to start by going through our remote participation presentation, to which I've made updates here and there mostly is real feedback while giving it now. We talked about this, I think, at our meeting last March. So not all, not all the changes are new, but there's a couple of things I want to review here. So the first one is on slide six. So we have this depiction on slide five of what we have today, a voting system with an on premises set of handsets. It used to be that this just said voting system, which is inconsistent, because what we're really doing is we're expanding this to not just allow remote participants to vote, but to be able to listen and speak. So I named it the town meeting system. If somebody has a better name for that, that's fine with me. But just to differentiate from the fact that previously, it was just a voting system, and now with remote participation, it's full participation, with listening, speaking and voting, and the slide previously didn't wasn't consistent with that point. Any comments on that? Okay, if not moving on to Slide 12, there's Lucy. So this is, there's a couple points here. One is one of the moderators I presented to. Said, you know where you really should be able to show us who's speaking. So there now shows that a friend, Robert Smith, is speaking. You might ask, Well, how does that get in there? Well, this is a pretty good argument for an assistant moderator who, among other things, whenever somebody introduces themselves, enters that person's name into the system so that all the remote participants can see who it is, and it wouldn't be a bad idea if the video, whatever video was displaying on premises, showed the first thing. There's another point on this slide, and that is that some people saying, I think our moderator is one of them. I'd rather see town meeting video here. I'd rather that remote participants saw video and heard as well as heard audio. So I guess we could say that that would be an option, that each town could decide whether you know when we're there's discussion going on, do remote participants see transcribe text, or do they see video? Or maybe that should even be a per participant. Option where each remote participant can decide. Now, before we go too much further, there's one other data point. There is town meeting video broadcast on WayCAM In our case, but that broadcast has a 10 second delay, so I'm not sure that if what we ended up with was 10 second delayed video with real time audio that that would be very helpful. So I don't know that we can resolve this here, but there's the question of what gets displayed during discussion. Is it transcribe text, which a lot of people would find helpful? Is it real time audio and video that we somehow pipe? Or is it real time audio with video from WayCAM. All of those, I believe, are technically feasible. We just have to decide, you know, what we want. And my guess is no three towns are going to make the same decision, which means that whoever implements this software is going to have to cater to all of the options that people might want. Comments. Lynne Dunbrack: I have a comment, but it's not so much related to this as our prior conversation about the voting window, because the 10 second delay from WayCAM will impact that. But I don't want to derail the first David Bernstein: question. That's a That's a fair point. You could argue that 10 second delayed video would be counterproductive for exactly that reason. Yeah, that whatever's going on, you're 10 you're 10 seconds behind real time. Is that 10 Lynne Dunbrack: second delay? Just out of curiosity, is that 10 second delay in late in case someone uses one of
Miranda S. Jones: the seven words? George Carlin, Lynne Dunbrack: Carlin, thank you. I was like, Carlton came up first. And I was like, that's not David Bernstein: right, words none of us would ever use. Miranda S. Jones: Do you know how often I have to check myself? It is part of my vernacular on a daily basis. So, but for whatever reason, whenever I get in front of people like that, I don't, for some David Bernstein: reason, my guess is, in order to have 10 second delay video, waycamp has to have real time video, and then they put it through a 10 second delay. So it's possible, I imagine, that if we wanted to, we could get real time video and display and have that be piped out to the remote participants. I don't know what's involved in that, yeah, I Miranda S. Jones: don't know what sort of regulations there are with federal regulations in terms of broadcasting, and if there has to be, because of the because of the issue about things that are inappropriate to be broadcast, I really don't know what the town council maybe. David Bernstein: So some research that has to be done. There's a number of options. We have to decide which ones are ones that might be useful, and then which ones? You know, what do we have to do to do them? But I just thought is very, sort of a very interesting set of requirements that pop out of this one slide. But, Miranda S. Jones: but to lens point, if I if I may, though, I mean, I foresee, do you all foresee that if we were to have remote participation, and people are voting on their hands, on their either iPads or their cell phones. Do you think we will still be using the clickers for people who are in person? David Bernstein: I We certainly will the first time we ever try remote participation. Okay, over time, I would hope that we could get to the point where people on premises are using the same software on the same kinds of devices, whether they're their own smartphone or ones that oti brings brings up, right? I agree only. The only issue with that is we would go from trying to shut down WiFi hotspots to making sure that we have enough WiFi bandwidth in the room to handle all the handsets. Yeah, Unknown: Dave, go make a comment. Go right ahead. Alan, so if you transition to not using the clickers, doesn't that change the business model with oti that you we presently have, because they're priced based on clickers, yeah, and, and they also provide the show. So you can't cut them out by replacing the clickers, because you still need their services, David Bernstein: we would need to negotiate a new business model. Unknown: Okay? Well, that doesn't exist. I just wanted to point that out, David Bernstein: right? We won't need to do that right away, because, like I said, the first time, we're not going to change all the variables simultaneously. The first time we do this for real, it will be remote participants using smartphones and tablets, but the on premises people will continue to use clickers. And then as we get the remote participation stuff really working, and our confidence grows, then we can begin to investigate using the remote participant stuff on premises. And at that point, we'd have to have a discussion with whoever our supplier is, that you know, both parties are comfortable with, Miranda S. Jones: but to the point of the 10 second delay, I think as we once this passes, we will need to figure out, how do we do this? So everyone's voting, both those people in person and those people participating remotely. How are they starting the voting window at this. Same time? Yeah, and I don't know what the Don Schuler: answer, just one comment. Don't you think people will actually be watching the town meeting on their TV while they're actually doing some of the voting remotely? I mean, they may be watching it and say, Oh, now here comes the interesting part. Let me get on my, you know, pick up my
David Bernstein: they will understand that there's a 10 second delay. It'll be fine. But you know, if you're engaged, if you're going to speak, if you want to vote, you really have to be using your handset, otherwise, it'll be 10 seconds behind the times, Don Schuler: right? Well, yeah, you will. But I mean, I think people might be doing that anyway. They might be doing both, yeah, could fairly common situation. Or we David Bernstein: could have Wayland. We could have Wayland declared a a community that never uses bad words over the air. And we don't need a 10 second.
Miranda S. Jones: I'm not. I'm not signing that. So Larry Krakauer: okay, well, is this really over the air? I mean, this is all cable. David Bernstein: Well, it's over Wi Fi, so it is over the air, but I don't think that counts. Larry Krakauer: No, no, yeah, I don't you're not supposed to be in on the Wi Fi. David Bernstein: I think the only, the only destination that needs the 10 second delay for our legal purposes would be WayCAM. Larry Krakauer: Well, no, but that's the question I'm thinking in terms of WayCAM. Oh, it's not over the air either. It's it's on a cable system. Oh, that's David Bernstein: true, and it's not like you don't hear about broadcast. Yes, yeah. CC, right. But wait a second, we don't hear, we hear bad words on lots of things that come over the case Miranda S. Jones: we do on cable. That was the whole point of cable, right? David Bernstein: So the real question is, why does White cam need a 10 second delay? Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, it's good question, Unknown: yeah. And also not David Bernstein: the outcome I was expecting. Very cool. Unknown: I remember a seven second delay for the FCC. Anybody remember that? No,
David Bernstein: okay, well, that was productive. Miranda S. Jones: Okay, any other No, I'm in touch with WayCAM Because we're planning on doing a bunch of Tom meeting things, putting it up on the website, and making a series of videos to teach people about Tom meeting and maybe get them more interested in it. I'll ask them if they understand why there's a 10 second delay. Okay, if they've got, if they know the regulation behind it, if whatever it is, David Bernstein: yeah, that'd be great. Sure. Any other discussion about this slide? Okay, let's move on to Slide 17. So here some things got added. A this section up here tells the moderator whether or not any points of order have been raised, and the one below it tells the moderator whether or not a question has been called. I think we already discussed at our last meeting the need to have both local and remote people on the list in chronological order, so that hasn't changed, but it was very embarrassing. I spelled the last name of New Zealand's Prime Minister incorrectly, and I was correct, so that's now correct. Lynne Dunbrack: It's alright, Dave. It makes you feel any better. We had a guest vendor come in, potential client, or they may have been clients at the time, and we had dutifully named all of our conference rooms like capitals and big major cities, and Auckland was one of them, and we had it misspelled on the conference room. Well done. Our Kiwi guests were very quick to gently point out, in a very polite way that we misspelled it. Big City. Yeah, David Bernstein: yep. Not good. Okay, slide 21 so this is just the remote participants view of the speaker queue. And you know, it's just too bad we don't have any graphic designers in this team. We're good at everything except graphic design, so I've just got l's and R's in here to designate local and remote. Doubtless we could have some icons created that better illustrate that. But Lynne Dunbrack: so on on. The question here for Jacinda, is that calling the question or they have a point of order question. This is, David Bernstein: this is just she wants to ask a question. Oh, okay, Miranda S. Jones: that's more like point of order. But you know what? You raise a good point, which I discussed with Dave recently, and the software program could be created so that whatever the person is, is what, whatever their purpose is to speak, it can be ranked because moderators are supposed to, depending upon what the nature of the reason is for the person to be at the microphone, they have a certain ranking that moderators are supposed to adhere to, so that, for example, motions to terminate debate are ranked higher than other motions. For example, motions to amend and you could, and that's. In town meeting time, and you could build that into the software program so it actually takes, it could obviate the need to have that scrum in front of the moderators, you know, podium, because, you know, there's often people coming up saying, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to speak. And so the moderator has to figure out who gets to talk next, and if they, if people, regardless of if they're at home or they're in person, if they log in, this is, this is me, and this is what I want to talk about. This is why I'm approaching I mean, the Pro and the con microphones are pretty easy, except what for the people who are in person, but the rest of it, you could have the software rank everybody for the moderator, which would make it more efficient? David Bernstein: Yep, and that could be, that could be set up so that each moderator could choose his or her own ranking, because they might not. Miranda S. Jones: That's the thing, Dave, is that moderators aren't supposed to Tom meeting time. Oh, really, a cover of Tom meeting time, it dictates what is well, then Don Schuler: the software will be easier. Yeah, I have a question, do you actually have multiple screens? Or what happens when you're looking at this and then you also want to hear what the person is saying? And David Bernstein: no, you only have one screen. And Don Schuler: as we envisioned it, if you just flip between David Bernstein: back to, you know, you'd go back to speaker or listen or whatever. I think you click return here to go back to that may not be the most well, Don Schuler: how about if you're, how about if you're, you're, you're listening to one of the people talking in the pro or con area. And then you decide I want to get on the list too
well. Then you stop hearing the person that that's talking. I David Bernstein: i assume the way this would work is that you, at all times hear Tom meeting audio, no matter what you're doing, unless you're speaking, okay, you'd have the audio. Yeah, you'd always have town meeting audio, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't Don Schuler: necessarily have the transcript into into text. David Bernstein: Now, you know, if we want to get sophisticated, we could say that, if the user has a tablet, we could, you know, divide it up into two vertical panes, so you could do two things at once. You could have, you know, one thing showing the speaker queue and the other one, but that other one showing a page like this, or the real time transcription. But I think that's, you know, that's an optimization to be considered later. Okay, but you're right. We have to make sure that when you're doing something other than listening to the current speaker and seeing that transcription, or seeing video, that when you go to other screens that you don't, you don't get disconnected from town meeting because you can't hear anything anymore. So that's an important point. Yeah, I don't think we ever specified it. So Lynne Dunbrack: for the for the in person, folks like Boris and Emmanuel. How did they? How do they register, register themselves on this queue? Is this David Bernstein: something that I think we talked about this. We talked about this at the last meeting. The low tech. There's a couple ways to do it. The low tech way is to post a person in a staff person at each microphone with a tablet, who, every time someone approaches the microphone, queries them for their name and enters that into the system right away, so that they're just there. The high tech way would be, you know, even with clickers, every the system knows that my handset, b4 71 is Dave Bernstein, so if we could change the clicker design so that if you push four, it means you want to speak in favor. If you push five, you want to speak against. If you push six, you want to ask a question, so your name would get entered into the queue that way. So somewhere in between those two extremes is what we'd end up doing. Got it and of course, it gets easy if everybody's using this application on premises, but that's not t equals zero, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, but you know what, Dave it just to that point, using a clicker, that four equals this five using one and two is easy enough. THE MODERATOR reminds people, but the other way wouldn't. However, what I would also say is this creates more accurate record for the town clerk when, when she's she's taking notes, and to have a listing of everybody who spoke is so much easier for her, too. Yep, just another benefit from David Bernstein: this. So at minimum, we just have to post a staff person in each microphone to record people's names as they approach the microphone. Yeah? So that that's a guaranteed, you know, we know we can make that work, yeah? Something better. We will. I agree with you that pushing buttons on the clicker not, ideally, not going to work, yeah, too complicated for people. Larry Krakauer: Well, actually, collecting names is not that easy. I mean, you know, people say their names, but really you'd almost have to stop them and ask them for spam. Selling in many cases true. David Bernstein: Well, maybe not Larry, because remember, only people who check in can speak. So the the tablets that people the staff uses could have a list of all legal speakers and just type in the first few letters of their name, and you've got it just like we is exactly like what we do when people check in now on the check in stations, so I think that can be facilitated.
Other Other questions on this slide, slide 21 or comments or suggestions. Okay, let's move on to Slide 26 Okay, so this is a list of things that I have accumulated. Some of them we've already discussed, showing the remote participants the name of the current speaker. A number of moderators pointed out that in their world, people can actually submit a text file with an amendment. So coming up with some way to support that. This would be trivial. If people were using desktops where they could prepare, you know, a text file or a Word document and send it. You know, if people are using their phones or tablets, they would somehow have to get their amendment into their phone or their tablet in order to be able to submit it. We have to think about how to, how to, how to come up, what way to support that we don't allow this, do we? Miranda,
Miranda S. Jones: I don't know. It's, it's so I'm debating this right now. I'm having an ongoing debate with Dennis Barry about changing the way we do amendments. So amendment has to, if it's more than 10 words, it has to be in writing, right? People bring amendments all the time to town meeting, emotions to amend the the article that's being presented. Sometimes do it. You know, you have to file amendment within 48 hours of Tom eating, or at least before, with within 48 hours of town meeting. And so all the amendments come beforehand. And so Dennis and I've been debating, should we think about doing something like that to make Tom meeting more efficient so people are more prepared so and but does that then deprive the ability to amend on the spot? Sometimes issues come up that maybe no one had thought about. So I don't know what the answer David Bernstein: you could argue that the need for an amendment doesn't become obvious until there's some discussion that reveals it that Miranda S. Jones: could have exactly No. I completely agree. And I can cite an example of one by law that we almost passed several years ago, and it had to do with sex offenders. And I remembered somebody. Everyone thought this. It was the chief of police brought it. Everyone thought this would be a no brainer article, and it was defeated because of the debate that flowed from it. And I don't remember if it was amended or not, but it's just things can change at Tom meeting that you don't you don't anticipate. David Bernstein: So the worst case here is that some remote participant has a brainstorm like that debate and wants to submit an amendment that's more than 10 words, yes. Miranda S. Jones: So we have to figure out how to how to factor that into the Yeah, into the software. Because if we are going to truly offer remote participation, then they need to be able to fully participate. We said this is not remote voting, so maybe remote voting might be one thing, but we're asking for remote participation, so they have to be able to figure out how to amend, if they so desire. And I don't know what the answer is to that, yeah, David Bernstein: just, I just an idea just popped into my head that the person could write their amendment on a piece of paper, you know, in their kitchen, and then have their camera take a picture of it Miranda S. Jones: and scan it in. Scan it? Yeah, the effect David Bernstein: it would have to do character recognition. You just have, I mean, you'd end up with that piece of paper in front of you, the moderator, and you could then read the amendment. Miranda S. Jones: But why couldn't? Why couldn't they, if they're if they're on their phones, why couldn't they type it in? Why couldn't there be some way it's just like you're typing a text message or an email David Bernstein: typing on a phone is not a skill that everybody has, but Lynne Dunbrack: there's voice recognition. Yeah, yeah, they would just have to hit Oh yeah. You know, yeah, when Miranda S. Jones: I taught my husband that a few years ago, it's changed his world. That's recognition, David Bernstein: yep. So that Lynne Dunbrack: actually gotten really good, because I have discovered that DEP, if I was texting with somebody, and then put my phone down, it will start to transcribe a phone meeting I'm on, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, yeah, if you mean, if you forget to shut off the microphone. So I put Lynne Dunbrack: that down, and I was like, Oh, my God, my my phone is typing and it is literally transcribing, Miranda S. Jones: yeah, what was being said? What's cool about that is, and actually really well, David Bernstein: what's cool is that that means that anytime anybody wants to make an amendment that could be captured, whether it's 10 words or or yep or not, and again, you're back to, you know, records for the town clerk, right? Yep. Unknown: Actually. Larry Krakauer: True. I use voice recognition all the time on texting, but I find I always have to edit, agreed. Well, not always, but often, if it's short and often, yes, yeah, David Bernstein: okay, well, that was productive. Okay. I love this one. Enable the moderator remote participants to sequence through multiple color schemes. You know, some people are color blind, so you have to be able to, you know, tolerate give people options there. We talked about this one at the last our last meeting, that if somebody who registered to participate remotely changed their mind and shows up on premises to allow them to check in and then instantly disable them from participating remotely for the remainder of that session. So twice, wouldn't Unknown: the software just do that? Yes, you would think so required, David Bernstein: but it's a requirement. So we want to, you know, want to capture it Lynne Dunbrack: just to play devil's advocate. What happens they come in, they do their big, big vote. You know, they come in to give and then they go home. So do we have the ability or people just decide to go home? Well, at 10, David Bernstein: I arbitrarily wrote it down as once you check in on premises, that's it for that session. You can't go back and remotely participate, just because I wanted to make sure there wasn't some hole where somebody could end up voting twice, we could certainly relax that if we were confident in the technology, Lynne Dunbrack: yup. Well, I'm just, I'm just thinking of like parents who might be able to come in for one vote, but then need to go home because they have to really care babysitter, you know, especially if you have a meeting that goes super David Bernstein: late. So the problem is, I mean, the work devil's advocate. You know, I I'm at on I've registered on premises. I'm checked in. I leave town meeting, but I don't check out somehow, and so the system still thinks I'm there, and then I go home and vote. I don't know, but that way I'm still not voting twice, Lynne Dunbrack: yeah, unless you've given your headset, your handset and slipped out now your proxy voting with yourself. It's just an interesting thing to think about, is what happens? Because that'll be the thing is, like someone will, you know, I can see the inevitable. It's 1030 I want, I need to go home. And really, yeah, David Bernstein: yeah. We should make it as flexible as we can, so long as we maintain the integrity of the system from a voting point of view, agreed. Okay, show the article, the current articles, time remaining, and the current speakers, time remaining. That's auto you know, the bigger point here is that moderators are pretty resistant to remote participation in general. You know, when Miranda tried talking to the mass moderators Association about this, he got a lot of negative feedback. I did.
Miranda S. Jones: It was not pretty. David Bernstein: Most of it comes down to inertia. I mean, they know how to do what they're doing. Now, this threatens to make their meetings much bigger and have to deal with people who aren't physically in front of them. Miranda S. Jones: Well, I also, I don't necessarily think that it was, I don't think it was necessarily that they were afraid of more people participating. I think it was that they would have to learn how to do it differently. And that's an and I you know, the moderators are a fairly diverse group. There's about 20% of them are women. I couldn't tell you what the ages, the ages are, but there's a lot of older men. Not that that's something negative, per se, but they also, but they seem to be very and, you know, I'm one of the older ones at 61 so, so, but, but my attitude is like the Tom wants us, we got to make this happen. But I always think change is a good thing. So, I mean, that's how progress happens. Nevertheless, some of them are stuck in the sort philosophically about, but Tom meeting is supposed to be all in one place, you know, on on the town green type of thing, and which is very archaic, that thinking, but, but I would say a majority of the people who aren't in the philosophical philosophical school are the ones that are afraid of the security of the vote and getting hacked and have not listened to Dave's presentation, and therefore are afraid because they haven't sat through this PowerPoint, and so they don't realize that a number of very smart people who are in this field have have Been looking at all these issues for several years now, and have come up with ways to combat the problems as the as they're presented. So anyway, so there's a there's a we don't have their we don't have the authority to that. We don't have their recommendation or support yet. But that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. And listen, we have a few towns that want to do it, and so that's what we're going that's how we're going forward. David Bernstein: So the point I was trying to make here is that anything we can do to make things easier for the moderator will help us, because it will, it will facilitate their being willing to give it a try and. And along the same lines, the moderator needs to be able to select the motion that will be the subject of the next vote. Make that easy to do. Miranda, the more, the more I think about this stuff, the more I think that remote participation, at least in a town like Wayland, is almost always going to require an assistant moderator to do some of these tasks. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, I'm sure you, I'm sure you're probably right. You know, when we get it past Dave, then when we get the permission to be able David Bernstein: to well, and we'll be doing a ton of testing so we'll be able to see what Unknown: we're doing, yeah, David Bernstein: but you know, anyway, Miranda S. Jones: if any of you can think of who would like this job as assistant moderator, please let me know. Lynne Dunbrack: And honestly, I think some of this would help the in person people like, I think, because sometimes it is confusing when you're you know, on the gym floor or the field floor, like which, which amendment Are We Now voting for? Like voting for the first one or the second one. So, Miranda S. Jones: and that's on the moderator to be very clear as to what it is to make sure before people vote, that they know exactly what they're voting on, whether it's the main motion or one of the amendments or some ancillary motion. David Bernstein: Okay, any more comments on this slide? Any more additional requirements? Anyone's thought up while we were debating this? Okay, let's move on to Slide 29 so here, I'm not sure exactly what changed. This is the same audit table. We've already always had talked about the designated auditors. I think maybe it's this, and that's the idea that designated auditors don't Is it? Um, designated auditors don't report discrepancies by clicking the report discrepancy button the way that a non designated auditor would, they actually send a text, a text message to a moderator smartphone that's programmed to only accept messages from those designated auditors. So in security terms, it's an out of band report mechanism so that if a designated auditor sees a problem, the moderator hears about it without any Reliance or dependence on the voting system or the town meeting system at all. So it's just a technologically upgraded way of informing the moderator, because my recommendation would be, if even one designated auditor reports a discrepancy, that means we're, you know, somebody's twisting votes over the internet, and this just gives us a more reliable way of conveying that information. Any comments on that? Lynne Dunbrack: Yeah, I remember. So I was actually confused by this, mostly like, why was the that person called out for being a discrepancy? Like, I was looking at the chart going, it kind of looked like the other items. So, and maybe there's a detailed question you can answer offline. It's not, I don't want to derail I didn't David Bernstein: quite catch the question. Lynne Dunbrack: Lynn, so you go back one of the slides, I think it was, or maybe the build this one. No, no, it was the, yeah, that. So why? Why is that particular entry? I'm assuming that's called out as having a discrepancy, because it's, it's so David Bernstein: this is, this entry is highlighted because it's supposed to indicate that this the person whose shoulder we're looking over the remote participant. That's their secret voter code, yep, and they see that their vote was recorded Yes, and that's what tells them that their vote was recorded correctly. And if not, they push the report discrepancy button. Oh, Lynne Dunbrack: all right, so this is a self report by the by the meeting attendee, right? David Bernstein: And then the other thing here is that there's running totals of yeses and no's and there's, there should be a total line that shows the total yeses and no's, and the moderator announces the remote vote as well as the total vote. So everybody who's auditing, if they want to, can confirm that the arithmetic was done correctly, that what the moderators chose was the remote vote matches, which adds up at the bottom of the audit table. And since these are all running counts, it's easy to check the arithmetic,
Lynne Dunbrack: quick except for the total. Totals don't add up to all the yeses in the there's, well, David Bernstein: there's three yeses and there's four nos. And there they are, and you can see them. They're not the yes column increments every time there's a yes, and the no column increments every time there's a no, and the abstain column increments every time there's an abstain, so 341, is the total of that vote. Lynne Dunbrack: Okay, so you're not, you're not counting the the total of,
Unknown: I get it, I think I get it. Yeah. Lynne Dunbrack: So if you look at the if you're doing this as an Excel spreadsheet, you one would think. That the yes column would be the total of that which is more David Bernstein: than Oh, but we're doing it as a running count, so that people who don't have calculators in front of them can just follow along and say yep, every time there was a yes vote, every time there was a no vote, yep, the no column increased, and I can see the totals adding up to what the moderator ultimately announces, Lynne Dunbrack: I see. Okay, Don Schuler: so there's, so there's going to be a line here for every remote person or every person, yep, okay. David Bernstein: And you know, it's a scrollable table, and it's scrollable table, and I think, I think the way it will likely work is that you type in the first few letters of your voter code and that, you know, it narrows it down, and then you select it, and Lynne Dunbrack: it's going to validate that you and this, you and the code are equal, so that you couldn't just decide, I'm going to, like, fool around with This and click on anybody's David Bernstein: Well, I mean, clicking on this does nothing other than highlight the row that when you report a discrepancy, you're just reporting a discrepancy as as the owner of this remote participants device. It's not like you can report a fake a discrepancy from somebody else. If you click the Report discrepancy button, it's you who logged in here. Lynne Dunbrack: Oh, so it's highlighting you on the screen. Yes, David Bernstein: I just did that for presentation purposes. Lynne Dunbrack: Okay, so So you would, so you either only, you'd only see your own record. David Bernstein: Well, no, you'd see, because the system. You don't want the system to know who you are from a secret voter code point of view, correct. The system shows all the secret voter codes you scroll around or type in a few letters to find, to find yours, but, but that's just so you can see that your vote was correctly received. That's the only thing that does. The selection here has no impact on what happens if you click the Report discrepancy button, if you click the Report discrepancy button, if you're logged in here with the you know, the Lynn Dunbar username and password, then the discrepancy comes from Lynn Dunbar independent of what you did here. Okay, Lynne Dunbrack: and you can only report your own quote, your own discrepancy, and not all these other ones. Okay, David Bernstein: correct, correct. Don Schuler: But you said there's a limited number of auditing people, or what did they call them? Oh, designated. David Bernstein: Well, there can be as many as the moderator chooses to recruit. And I would argue that we want more rather than less, because the more of these there are the higher the fraction number of people that are auditing every single they're auditing their vote every single vote, but which means we have a better chance of detecting tamper. Unknown: But this table is not just the designated audience auditors. This is everyone who's voted right, and the designated auditors are basically, in some sense, just a minimum number of people who are going to audit it. And if everybody wants to designate themselves as being an auditor and check it, all the better, right? We David Bernstein: want many remote participants to audit their vote as possible. We want to encourage that, but we can't guarantee that they will. The designated auditors are people who the moderator knows and recruits who basically agree, yes, I will audit my vote every single time. Unknown: But the system doesn't know who they are. That's correct, and that's an important thing, because if the system knew who they were, it can make sure it doesn't screw their vote around, just everybody else's. Yep. David Bernstein: Yeah, good point. And that's how this out of band reporting system works, because the discrepancy report isn't conveyed by the by the system. It's conveyed completely independently of the of the town meeting system. Are you worried about? Say that there's 300 people remotely logged in, and everyone is is checking their vote. You know, some people could forget their vote, or something like that, and you might get a lot of people claiming there's a discrepancy, and there is, and that's another reason for having a designated auditors, there are going to be some members who will get confused and get the wrong line here or something, and we may get a few discrepancies that are noise. So that's why the distinction is a discrepancy from a designated auditor one, and we're done discrepancies from the general public in the absence of discrepancies. Here, you might, you know, be willing to tolerate a few, and testing will tell us how well this works. Unknown: But the same thing with handsets, the handset basically set, you know, at the end says you, you know, voted yes or whatever, and you're supposed to look at it and make sure it's right. And you know, you could say, well, 1000 people, 100 people, are going to say, Oh, I got it wrong. But the reality is, typically, the ones who come up and say they got it wrong are the ones, when you talk to them, who voted wrong. You know, they just did. They you said, I hit, you know, plus or whatever, and it didn't vote yes. So I don't think it's a historically, I don't think it's a problem. David Bernstein: You know, the testing will tell us, because we're going to test with high school kids, we're going to test with senior citizens, you know, before we do this live and we'll, we'll get some sense of how good are people at being able to do this, and how many bogus discrepancy reports do we get, Don Schuler: you know, with the handset, there was a couple times we did an audit, but everybody kind of trusted it after that, and nobody bothers to do what happened, you know, so, so I think it could be the same thing once, once people feel confident that it hasn't shown up, you know, after a Couple of town meetings, that they'll they'll be less checking going on once they feel right. Miranda S. Jones: That would be a mistake, though, agreed. You'd still want the designated David Bernstein: audit, no matter what these these, yeah, way as reliable auditors, but we always want some number of designated auditors. Okay? THE MODERATOR could encourage people to audit their vote. Yeah, okay. Unknown: On this slide, Larry Krakauer: I somehow this seems complicated. I mean, the or it the auditing is harder than just having your own handset and checking your vote. You've got to know how to look up your audit code. And so it takes very little to confuse people, in a way that seconds the importance of the designated auditors, right? They will know what they're doing. Most people probably will not and will just ignore this capability altogether. It's kind of confusing. David Bernstein: Well, you know, this is the heart of how we detect tampering with boats over the internet. So the good news is that it works. The bad news is that it may be too complicated for some people, and the question is, is there a better way to do it? I don't know of one. You know, if we come up with a better one, we should certainly consider it, but, but you know, to be able to have votes go over the internet and keep them private, remember, I mean, if you just have everybody's public votes were public, this would be trivial, because it would just say Dave Bernstein, yes, and everybody could see I voted yes. I could see I voted yes. But it's when you replace people's names with secret voter codes in order to maintain the privacy of the vote is what makes it, I think, more more complicated. Larry,
Larry Krakauer: yeah, yeah, I that's the importance of the designated auditors. Because, in some sense, people who are not designated auditors might not be doing this very much. So, so you need the designated I might say, I don't know whether this is any importance, but Miranda was talking about, you know, moderators, thinking about the good old days of small towns and everybody knows each other, and the traditional town meeting and so on. That you may recall, the traditional town meeting was why I was initially reluctant to consider secret votes. The traditional town meeting did not have secret votes. Stood up for what you were going to vote for, and let people see it. Miranda S. Jones: In this town,
Unknown: that's courage that you're putting on we put on other people that it's unfair. They just want to vote. They want to vote with their hearts, their minds and their pocketbooks. They don't they should not have to, quote, unquote, stand up and show their vote, because they could be harassed. David Bernstein: Larry's point, it wasn't that we should restore that. He's just pointing out that at the inception of town meeting, that's how it worked. Miranda S. Jones: Well, Dave and I raised this issue when we've we've done these presentations about Wayland was a very private vote for a long for a long time, and not all Tom meetings open. Tom meetings are like that. A lot of people do secret ballots, and we never did until electronic voting came. And then all of a sudden, we switched from a public vote to a very private vote, and the town has embraced that to the point where my first town meeting was a special town meeting when we had that one warrant article town meeting in December of 2023 and we did a secret ballot rather than going since we didn't, since the Select Board did not vote to have electronic voting, since there was just one more in Article, because it's so expensive, we had, rather than going back to the shout out vote that we used to do, we did a secret ballot, because everyone's gotten used to private voting and so, so I mean it, and that is the uniqueness of town meeting. Every town is a little bit different. How Tom meeting is done, and Wayland has changed. It has morphed over the last 14 years. With electronic voting. And this is yet another change, but the town wants it because, because it so more people can participate. Larry Krakauer: So I said clearly, it clearly is what people want. That's absolutely, yeah. David Bernstein: Any other comments on this slide? A good discussion. Alright, one, see, we're 20, so 41 so this is a point I want to make explicit here we have two pieces of legislation before the legislature, one a Home Rule petition. The other is statewide legalization. So everybody has endorsed the statewide bill. I'm getting ahead of myself, but the League of Women Voters, the mass Municipal Association, and so our position is, ideally, we'll get statewide approval. Short of statewide approval, we'd like to have at least Wayland and two other towns get approval so that we can get started on building software, because nobody's going to build the software until it's made legal. So this may be a little bit of a switch, where, in the past, we were kind of focused on our home rule petition, and then, oh yeah, there's the statewide bill as well. We're explicitly asking for the statewide bill first. Now that doesn't mean we're not going to test the hell out of this before. You know, we encourage anybody else to use it, but I just wanted to make that flip explicit here for everybody comments or questions. Okay, so 44 these are all the town that you guys know. This is all the towns we talked to. 44 is a summary of current legislation. So this is a little repetitious. 2272 is our home rule petition submitted by Representative Gentile, along with Representative Linsky, who's also a Wayland congressperson, and our senator Eldridge. HD 965, has to do with Lexington town meetings, which are representative. So it's not, has not, not relevant. 2274 is a statewide bill I was just talking about. We're now up to 10 co sponsors of that bill. The League of women's voters has jumped on this with both feet. They have run two different webinars for us, one for all league members, and a second one for all legislators, and we ended up with 100 people showing up at each one of those webinars. Nancy brumbach, who is the league's legislative director, has just been incredibly helpful, but she's put in tons of hours and tons of time and got lots of resources for us, and we have a lot to thank them for. The turning point was when they realized that our solution for conveying votes over the internet was indeed secure. That was for them. That was that was when the light bulb went on. Before that they just didn't trust it.
Something new, as of last week, Senator Barrett, who's a Senator for Concord, Weston Carlisle, has submitted a bill that is identical textually, to this statewide bill, but he submitted to the Senate. Senator Barrett is the assistant Senator Majority Leader. There's two of them, but he's one of them. So he is the first member of legislative leadership who has, in a high profile way, jumped on board of supporting what we're doing. And as best as I can figure out, it's legislative leadership that decides whether or not this committee, which is where our bill is right now, will either, you know, refer us for study, as has happened the last two legislative sessions, or will actually give us the go ahead to move move on, which would take our bill to the Ways and Means Committee, which is another story, all by itself. So this was a huge victory. I think a couple weeks ago, Miranda and I went into the state house, along with two people from Concord who we've been working with, and we presented to Senator Barrett. So he's seen this presentation we're looking at now. He reacted very positively, I think. And he has, you know, he's helping us as as much as we could ask. So I'm very happy about that these bills get into a cold, different, competing matter, and that is, they address not just town meetings, but public meetings. Public meetings are meetings governed by the Open Meeting Law. And the problem is that some of these bills want to make hybrid public meetings mandatory, and some of them want to make hybrid public meetings optional, and the League of women's voters wants them to be mandatory, and the Massachusetts Municipal Association wants them to be optional, because small towns can't necessarily afford it, and there's a debate between the House and the Senate. So we're basically done. King that set of disagreements, because the two bills we're pushing are statewide bills that only address how needed. Okay, anyway. Any comments about this or questions? Okay, so does anybody have a problem with me releasing this version of the presentation as a public document, so that it will go on our website, Towns website? So is there a motion to to make this public? Lynne Dunbrack: Any John can be moved, and I'll be second. David Bernstein: Okay. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed hearing nothing, the vote will be recorded as unanimous. Thank you, everybody. I know that was a lot to go through, but we had to go through it. Okay? Don Schuler: I have one question. You know, you mentioned that if it's a represent representative town meeting. They actually do have a remote participation at this point. But David Bernstein: what do they have? It sounds like they I don't know. Do they have the capability to do debating and make amendments and everything like we were going to do for our voting? At least two towns have been using a combination of zoom and a product called V voter, which is made by oti, our friends oti. So they zoom for remote speaking and listening, and they use V voter for remote voting, and it's public voting. The problem is, and I've heard this both from I've heard it from the moderator of Plymouth, and I know it's a problem in Lexington, is that the 200 or so delegates, the people, the representatives who vote, get confused, having to switch between the two. So every time I do that presentation for somebody who's had that experience, they say, this is exactly what we need, because our representatives get confused having to move to separate applications when they want to vote or speak or listen. And I've actually heard from Mark fight that he feels the same way that you know, what we've developed here, this integrated town meeting system that just leads the remote participant through the steps is exactly what everybody needs, even representative town meeting. And my guess is you're going to see Mark moving in that direction at oti. It's to the point where, in Lexington, one of the Select Board members who evidently has a software background, basically wrote a remote participation application for representative town meeting, and they're using that in Lexington, and we might want to talk to him about that, just to get a sense for what he did. But any other questions before we move on? Okay, so the next thing, the next document, is this one. Yes, this one. No. Wrong place documents. The next document is this one. So one of the challenges we face, and we don't face it directly, is that we're told that the Secretary of State, Mr. Galvin, is not comfortable with using the Internet to convey votes, and that his discomfort is the reason that during the pandemic, remote participation in representative town meeting was made legal, but remote participation in open town meeting was not there's a woman who reports to the Secretary of State. She's the director of elections. Her name is Michelle passenari. We had some interaction with her many years ago having to do with check in at town meeting with electronic voting. So she's not a stranger. So we have tried hard to convince director test scenario and Secretary of State Galvin that that we can make town meet remote participation accurate and secure. And so, with some help from Larry and John last, last, last April, we wrote up. This is basically a text version of the presentation with a few slides in there, and you can see it was done before I changed this to town meeting system, so it's an interesting thing to read. You know, it shouldn't be any different than what the presentation is. The reason for bringing it up is we've yet to hear any response from either of them, we heard indirectly that director Tom gave this document to her, quote, cybersecurity team who has questions, but all of our attempts to get to be able to engage with them, to understand their questions, or to answer their questions, or to give them a presentation, have not succeeded. So. We've asked Senator Barrett we talked about before, who's evidently good friends with Mr. Galvin, to please intercede on our behalf and arrange for us to have a conversation. Still hasn't happened. So exactly how much resistance we're getting from this? I don't know. No one's ever come to us and said, Well, we passed this, except Secretary Galvin is peeing all over it. That's not we don't know that that's happening, but my view is that any opposition is bad opposition, and so we're just trying as hard as we can to get an opportunity to understand what their concerns are and address them, Miranda S. Jones: right? But also remembering that Secretary Galvin runs, he's in charge of the elections, this is, this is something completely different than town meeting, which is the legislative body for each individual town. So, so, so you think, okay, he runs elections. This really has nothing to do with Secretary Galvin. It really doesn't. The other thing is, the legislature isn't governed by Secretary Galvin. He's an elected official. He's very He's unique. He's in the executive branch of government. The legislature is the legislative branch. So in some respects, who cares what Secretary Galvin thinks it really doesn't matter. And also, my understanding is that not that many people in the state legislature particularly respect Secretary Galvin. So in some regards, I think we focus. We should focus more of our effort on on getting the people to focusing on our bills that are pending and trying to get support within the legislature, rather than Secretary Galvin, yes, it would be nice to have His blessing, but I don't know. Michelle test Mary, clearly, is avoiding us, yeah. Well, some respects, you David Bernstein: could, I don't. I don't disagree. I'm perhaps a little more, you know, trying Miranda S. Jones: to eliminate any and all obstacles, yeah, and I understand why, David Bernstein: yeah. So we're not spending any time on this. I mean, you know, we I ping them occasionally, but we're not doing anything other than trying to get time with Miranda S. Jones: them. Yeah, no, I understand it would be great to have His blessing, but, but I wouldn't. I just want David Bernstein: to keep everybody here informed of what's understandable. Yeah, so any questions about that one, alright, let's move on to item 7c so the end of last April, Miranda and I journeyed into the state house and we met with the co chair, the house, co chair of the municipalities and regional government committee, we presented the presentation you just saw, and the chair, Jack Lewis, and his staff, were very attentive. They gave us a full hour. They asked really good questions. They didn't tip their hand or anything. But I felt like we got a fair hearing, and I was really happy that we were able to do that. So that went well. I think I already mentioned this in item D, that the League of women's voters and the Massachusetts Municipal Association have, in fact, endorsed the this bill, H, 2274 which is the statewide bill. I don't know that we need to look at that endorsement. Keep bringing up the wrong folder here. Sorry. So here's the League of women's voters endorsement, endorsing age 2274 so the endorsements great, the help we're getting from Nancy brumbach is irreplaceable. She's just incredible. And we're we've learned a ton. I should also point out that rep Gentile has an assistant, a legislative assistant named Simon. Ravi Robbie Simon, and he's been also extremely helpful. He's put a ton of time into this. He's educated us, and he's advocating for us. So really, can't be unhappy with the support we're getting, comments or questions. Here's another really good thing. In early June, Concord town meeting approved an article asking the Select Board to file a Home Rule petition along the lines of waylands, that article passed the Select Board is in the process of writing up the legislation. As we speak, I already mentioned this, which is the League of Women Voters, held a webinar for their chapters. There were 95 people who participated. There's video, if you haven't looked at it, if you want to watch what Miranda and I basically do our dog and pony show, but it was very good, and we got some really good questions that were fun to answer. A couple of weeks later, the league hosted a webinar for all state legislators and their staff. I actually have an analysis of that of the attendees, so let's see, do I have that? Yes. Okay, so this is that there were 101 people who showed up for the for the legislative webinar. 78 of them actually attended, and 19 did not. And so there were several senators who. Spoke Senator Barrett and Senator Eldridge. There are several people who endorse Dave Kaufman is a legislative director of the mass Municipal Association. They carry a ton of weight. In this process, we had 25 legislators or legislative staff members, and interestingly, we had 42 people who weren't legislators, but were town clerks, were town managers or town administrators Select Board members. So somehow or another, the news of this webinar leaked out, and a lot of town people ended up participating. So again, we got some good questions, and it was all up. You know, thanks to the League of Women Voters that we got to speak directly to a lot of people who will make can make a difference in all this. Any questions about this? Okay, let me get back to the agenda. Okay, so then I guess this was last month or late last, late in July, Miranda I Tom Fay, a number of people testified before the municipal and regional government committee. When you testify, you get three minutes, but you can submit written testimony. And I submitted written testimony as did Miranda, as did Tom, the written testimony I submitted was a version of the document we sent to Director passenari And the Secretary of State. And the only reason I want to bring it up is that a couple months ago, on Wayland social media, I asked people if they felt disenfranchised by the lack of remote participation. And two people responded. They sent me notes. One was Alexandra puglio. Another was Heather Ryan and I decided to append a section to that document I spoke of called Voices of disenfranchised Wayland voters, in which I basically quoted what they said. You know, Alexandra, it cost her $150 just to go to town meeting one night because she had to get health care or child care for her children. And Heather has multiple sclerosis. She can't attend. She wants to, and I thought the passion of both of them wanting to attend, but being unable to, would hopefully have an impact on the committee. And then my closing line, we're not asking for money, we're just asking for permission. Hopefully that will help as well. Unknown: Yeah, hmm, David Bernstein: any comments or questions about this stuff?
Okay, I feel like I'm getting a degree in civics. So item h, this is pretty cool. I asked Mark fight to submit testimony to the committee, and he did so here's his testimony, in which he basically talks about what we're doing and why we're doing it, supports it, and makes the point that nobody's going to write the software until it's made legal. And that was the key message we wanted him to send, and he sent it so very happy with that. Mark has been very helpful in doing this. Any comments or questions about that? A possible third town for a Home Rule position is Weston. Weston's moderator, guy named rip Hastings is very supportive. There's three members of their Select Board. They only have three, and one of them is gung ho on remote participation and thinks at least one of the other one is as well. So they're moving towards getting a Home Rule petition. We'll probably have to go and present to them, but that seems to be working pretty well. So that's just a status report. So that completes a rather lengthy hour and 15 minute discussion of remote participation. Are there any comments or questions about any of this?
Lynne Dunbrack: No, I think we raised them through the course of the discussion. Good, okay, for myself, I should say, David Bernstein: anybody else? All right, so let's then move on to Item eight, which is the Elvis annual report. So let me bring that up. Everybody see that? Okay, yep, okay, so Trudy already submitted her correction, which is changing FY 2024 to FY 2025 The question is, is there anything else in here that needs to change? So does anybody have any comments?
Lynne Dunbrack: No comments David Bernstein: for me. Okay, Don John, yep.
Unknown: Larry seems good. David Bernstein: Okay. Do I have a motion to submit this report as written as the FY 2025, Elvis annual report. So second? Unknown: What was the second John? Was the second John? I. Okay, okay, David Bernstein: all in favor, aye, any opposed, hearing no opposition, we'll record the vote as unanimous. Okay, so believe it or not, that is our agenda. That was the last non public item on the agenda in the wrong place. Where is the agenda? There's the agenda. So Robbie, is there any one out there who members of the public that have hands raised for public comment? Oh, I see none. Okay. Anyone here want to make closing remarks? Alan, yeah, Unknown: yes, I would love it to thank you. First, I want to say that in seeing what Elvis has done with remote participation, I'm amazed, and I compliment you all. You've taken it to a place that honestly, I didn't think where it was going to go, but you're there, and I think that you're going to close the deal. So what I wanted to say tonight was really two things. One of the just make an announcement. The other ones, I wanted to tell you a little story, but I figured I saved the best for last and do it reverse order. I just think that during because of my own life and what's going on and things that I've decided to resign from Elvis, and so I've always kind of fantasized, if I was a professor, that I would be Professor Emeritus. Okay, so I figure I must be Elvis emeritus. Maybe you could, maybe you could think of me that way. All right. So the other thing I want to tell you is is always like stories of origin. So I'm proud to tell you that 14 years ago, and Miranda just bought up the 14 years that this was after I was a select man. I was unelected, by the way, okay, and an event occurred at a town meeting where we were at an auditory at the high school. My wife and I were there, and it was an article having to do with the town center. I didn't like the article, and my wife didn't either. So when it came time to vote no, and in those days we had no electronic voting, you would stand up for the No, you'd stand up for the Yes, right? So we stood up for the No, and as we're standing there, and you know, they have to count you, so you're standing there for quite a while, like, remember that, right? They go around the audience and check you off on a sheet of paper. So there was a colleague of mine, and I'll keep names out of it, who was on the board of selectmen, all right? And he was, like, making little sounds, and I turned around, and he's making head motions to me to sit down. Like, sit down. You could just imagine that somebody with their head motioning you to sit down. So I felt kind of uncomfortable about that. And when the vote was over, and my wife and I were going home, I said to my wife, why the bleep does anybody have to know how we're voting? And then I said, Well, why the bleep does anybody have to know how anybody's voting? So a couple days later, I was watching the TV, and I saw Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, the TV show. And of course, they have little clickers on them, where people they get audience participation. So I looked up the show where they did some research, and I found that the company who handled the clickers on that show was out of Orlando, Florida, and they were options technologies, interactive. So I started working with Mark fight, and was getting him to give me quotes, what it would take to buy a system. And we were up around $200,000 now I have to, I'm going to be very honest and tell and tell you that the powers to be did not want this. And it's a really simple principle, if you give people privacy, then you're giving them power and you're giving away power. So government tends not to want to give away its power. So the government of Wayland did not want us to have its power. And I don't want to go into all the stories, but it was very evident, and other people could probably support this, if they give you their stories, their versions of it. So by the end of it, I came to Mark and I said, Look, you've done dental shows, you've done Las Vegas. You've done all this other stuff, but you've never done a New England town meeting. And there's like 241 towns and cities in Massachusetts. Look at the opportunity. What I'm asking you, Mark is give us a free trial, just one. And I know that was not. Small ask that was a big ask. So he said, Let me think about it. And a few days later, he came back and he says, Yes, I'll do that. And he sends me a fax describing what he's going to do for Wayland. Now you know, you may know that once you put an article in, you're allowed to change your motion as long as the moderator think it's within scope. So everything is secret except Dave Bernstein No, and George Harris, my favorite attorney, no, because he wrote me a motion of 25 words or less that would do it legally. So I walk up to the microphone, and everybody thinks I'm about to make a motion for $200,000 and there's people on on the batters deck, ready to kill me. Okay? And all of a sudden, I do it 25 words or less, free trial next spring, costs nothing, and I hear this sound go over the audience. So Dave and I had it planned. He was going to be at the at the microphone, and I would walk to different points in the auditorium. Dave would point out that if I was right there at the front row, I'd have much more volume, and I would seem like more than one vote. And if I would walk back to this spot in the middle of the auditorium, then sound would drop over, drop off, one over. What is it r squared? Or one over R? R squared? Right? R1, over r. So the drop the sound would drop in half. And if I walk to the back of the auditorium, so we put on a little demonstration like that. No, went well. So when it came time to vote. I'm going to tell you that every person at that audience yelled yay, in favor of the free trial. Minus one, okay, because when it came to Nay, I got one no. So that was it. That was that was the how people wanted this. And the reason is, they wanted their privacy. Their government didn't want their privacy, but they wanted their privacy. So I say to you that they wanted their privacy from the beginning. They didn't have to be convinced of it. They had gone through Well, 400 years. Is that? How old this technology was of yelling at town meeting, but they had gone through at least a decade of being exposed with by their vote and feeling harassed. Well, if they work for the town of Wayland, by their jobs, if they had kids in school system, they had fear that their kids wouldn't be selected for a team or get special instructions these, I'm not making this up. These are stories that came to us. So anyway, it came in, and my theory was this, it's called the puppy dog theory. Once you take the puppy dog home from the from the store, you don't want to give the puppy dog back. All I wanted to do was get the clickers into their hands and let them feel the privacy. And they've never let it go for 14 years, not even we, when we fell flat on our faces due to Wi Fi interference or because there was people plotting to get more than one clicker for themselves to really torpedo this thing. We still stayed strong, and we rewrote the rules and made sure it wouldn't happen again. And here we are, 14 years later. And Dave tell me how many communities now? More David Bernstein: than 70. Miranda S. Jones: Yeah, might even me over 90 possibly. Unknown: Okay, so Miranda S. Jones: you started, you started a thing. Unknown: Yeah, it was a pebble in the pond, but you guys carried the ripples out to the way to the tidal wave. Okay, so here I am, Professor Elvis Emeritus, signing out. Okay, I'm sure we'll talk again. Have a nice night. All David Bernstein: right, thank you Alan. Thank you Alan. Thank you Alan. Thanks for all of it. Alan, Larry Krakauer: would not have happened without you. Yeah, thank Unknown: you. Thank you right. Bye, David Bernstein: bye. So obviously we're sad to that Alan has decided to retire, but that's his privilege. Miranda and I will start a recruiting drive to find someone who could take Alan's place. If you happen to know of anyone who would be a good candidate, please let us know, because we you know, but we will, we will go on and we will continue to carry the ball forward. So that's all I have. I think that's it for the meeting. Does anyone have any parting words? If not, thank you all for the time. This is a longer meeting than usual, hour and a half. But here we are at 857, I hereby declare the Meeting adjourned. Larry Krakauer: Do we need a motion to adjourn or not? You can make it. Larry, I. Okay, move we adjourn. David Bernstein: Second All in favor, aye, anyone opposed hearing nothing, the motion will be recorded as unanimous.
Finance Committee
Unknown: Okay, so let's bring
the Finance Committee to order
at seven o'clock. And this
meeting is not being recorded,
so it's not going to be made
available, but I trust people
will do a continuing, great job
in preparing minutes for the
public. There's no persons
public to be here, so let's just
call to order our agenda, really
is five items, status, review,
the fiscal 27 budget
preparation, the annual report
to the Tom sent a draft around
just an hour or so ago, a
further discussion on peer community benchmarking. And then the meat of discussion is around the MWRA and long term water issues. So as several documents were sent around in that one any other topics from any committee members that want to raise just the we sorry. We should probably publicly state that we had a resignation. Should it be part of the announcement? Has resigned, and so we have six
Carl Barnes: so imagine we actually record the date of that presentation. Unknown: How I can find it. There's an email from him to me into Carol Martin, remember what the date was, but officially it should go, I think, to the Tom manager, okay, I think went to the clerk. The clerk later, so that has happened the official rounds. Good, I'm fine with that. Okay, thank you for continuing to serve. But, yeah, all of us should think about other candidates to come on.
First order of business then to turn to is the fiscal year 27 budget Working Group Michael McCall with Brian o'turley, he's drafting prepared a memo to the Select Board that was delivered last week. We had a meeting yesterday with the working group, and kind of delved into it further. We're on the cusp of potentially not needing an override, or potentially needing an override, and there's many variables that won't be locked in for a while, but there's clear sort of appreciation that it would be a good idea for lots of different reasons to not do an override this year, if we can avoid it, mostly around other things that we are all going to need to be dealing with, like the long term water solution. Variables not needing an override, or for an override, include question about what will be the actual special education costs, the transportation costs and the health insurance costs, also all of the bargaining unit
that we deal with, schools, police, fire, are up for new contracts before fiscal year 27 so, and there'll likely be three year contracts, and that process needs to kind of work through for a while Before we know what the results of that all is all like, that's what I understand. Yeah, I'm surprised. I thought they were staggered. Thought there may have been one or two that weren't on the same or, yep, and fire hasn't been settled for the last Yes. So those are all factors, just for Bill. They're three year contracts, typically for collective bargaining. I don't know you have fire, so we did, obviously, 23 to 2620 Yeah, 2326 to the end of fiscal year, 26 so and we'll have to do fiscal 27 through 2029 in the next round. But we need to budget for that before the collective bargaining has been agreed upon. Three significant, there's both three significant that there are more like seven or eight police fire in schools, but there are others as well.
Carl Barnes: So you said the fire settled. We were thinking that was going to get resolved last Unknown: year. It, I mean, I remember, yeah, after week, it was. Still outstanding. Okay, so that normally wouldn't be on this cycle. I don't know. I think it would be on this cycle, but now we'll have now they're going to be working on two cycles. So okay,
there are two things that are going to be in front of Select Board on the fiscal year 27 one of which is taking a department Public Works building that was put into the general obligation fund, not into excluded debt, even though it was a $2 million or one point something million dollar project. The reasons for that have been explained to me, or had been inferred by several folks as to why at that time it wasn't, nonetheless, is looking at it now that could free up some tax levy if it was taken out of her General Obligation fund and put into excluding debt, and select board gets To make that call that does to propose it. That does require a town vote, and I think it's a majority needs to vote in favor it. So it's not a town meeting. It's an actual special election. If the slide board decides to proceed with that, that will be likely the first Tuesday of November 25 that would move that amount of capital out of the general obligation into this excluded debt.
This chair is just super so that's one. And then the second item is, instead of going on permanent debt for a number of different projects that are pending to go with what's called Bond anticipation notes. Yeah, and again, it's a Select Board decision if they want to proceed with that the bond anticipation notes do not require paying principal during the time there are temporary debt instruments and that that would reduce the burden on the town from a cash standpoint, so for all of fiscal 26 Yes. Okay, yes. Do not require principal, paying principal, like during the until the purchase period, until they get issued as permanent bonds. These the temporary bonds, so that option is being considered, and that again reduces somewhat a potential Levy. Third, thank you all the worst next year. It's not entirely clear, but yes, the fiscal year 28 start Carl Barnes: eventually the principal is going to have to start. Yeah, right, you just have that Unknown: big jump up. Yeah, yes. Fiscal 28 looks very much likely. But as I've gone through past documents, there was some consideration that fiscal year 26 was going to need to be an override, and didn't happen, and fiscal year 27 was was assumed to be needed for an override, and now it looks like maybe we're not going to be there. When was the last time we did it override? It's been about 10 years. Yeah, I've seen the numbers. I don't remember the specific. I was going to say 2013 Yeah. And the reality of overrides. I mean, if costs of operations go up more than two and a half percent a year, eventually you're going to be needing an override. It's just but you need a town vote to approve it.
So we'll see. Is the short answer. There's certainly motivation to try and minimize
it the not for locking in or anything. There's a new it head for the town, and looking at circumstances that practices in town, and surfacing possibilities for some better efficiencies, some of the software licenses and stuff, which isn't surprising, and that's kind of encouraging. There's consideration of joint dispatch with several towns, and so instead of having our town have to do dispatch by ourselves, that obviously has bargaining unit implications and other implications. It's not clear that there's going to be tremendous economic savings anytime soon, but, you know, there's definite motivation by the town to look for opportunities to be more efficient. Any questions,
I guess one of my the question, sort of one of the I. The questions I have just looking at this is just from the meadow. It sounds like 750, to a million and a half is sort of a likely,
you know, I'm just trying to find what that was exactly. That's, that's the likelihood of the override between 750 and one and a half billion. I guess, on its own, the DEP W pushing that to excluded debt offers us 700,000 so that doesn't even so that doesn't even prevent an override. So we need on its own, so we need, like, a good chunk of these other things that could help. Yeah, so we've got a lot of unknowns. Yes, we've been eating whatever every other week, every other week, the number changes a lot. As far as the gap. There was one week where it looked like the bus contracts were going to be driving things to be much more expensive. And then it got relearned that women were locked in on our bus contracts. Right now we don't have any bus contract that we have to deal with, so that lowered some of the costs substantially. Where we left last meeting was about $500,000.04 to $500,000 DEP. But I don't lock that in, because there's so many variables we don't know.
At some point we will likely be asked, do we support moving the DPW into excluded debt, and also, do we support, you know, these bond anticipatory notes? Yeah, because that would that seems like that could creep enough provide Is there a downside to moving over? It sounds like no. The only thing, and you know, we're getting bound counsel to weigh in. The only thing is, if interest rates seem to be lower now than it might be in the future, maybe it's locking it in now, but there's not anybody's guess as to what interest rates, but that's one thing To be considered.
Anything else on current budget status.
Just on that note, like someone could easily do some sensitivity on that for rates and various rates, and because it seems like my sense is we still make sense. It probably the swing factors aren't so big that it would make sense. Yeah, I agree, and that's my counsel to the working group as well. Select Board needs to get comfortable with the choices here. There were some concern that people might see this as gaming, and there was sort of like reassurance that, no, this is actually kind of prudent practice, but we'll see how those conversations continue forward. Yeah. I mean, I think using bands for a full year, it kind of is, yeah. I didn't even know that fans exist. Well, I mean, we use them. We use them periodically, yeah, regularly, yeah. And the bands, as I understand the language of them, can actually be used for up to 10 years. So it's not even like a lot and Moody's is okay with it, you know, sort of overall debt position. This is really about Proposition two and how to sort of collect the right amount of Levy. Yeah. I mean, that does seem like a good option. Yeah, yeah.
Second order of business was the annual report, which I made a very quick sort of cut and paste, as I understand it. It needs to be submitted by the chair, which will be Michael, but I need to confirm that, you know what? Actually like I looked at last year's and Brian actually drafted it okay. We all approved it, and I believe maybe I submitted it okay as the standing chair. But if it's drafted and ready to go,
so take a look at it. We. And feed me any suggestions or questions or anything you weren't there so you don't have to find if you have a comment the right place, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually a good sort of synopsis of what we did for the year. So yeah, it's good to me and drew on yours from the year before, and also from the annual town meeting report, sort of from a cut and paste. I mean, it's about 800 words, and the target is up to 1000 is it's
Carl Barnes: just, I think we can double check this, but I think we have room for that. So we haven't even drafted the agenda for the meeting after September 2, so we probably ought to put that on the agenda. Try to get you comments before then I Unknown: was we did put it on Tuesday night's agenda to the degree that there are comments that we even can bring together to that Tuesday night there we can discuss it. Then it shouldn't take a long time. When I first looked at this requirement, I thought, oh my goodness, 10 page report or something. I realized that he's simpler, and so I took her rough cut at it. But Pam has the most experience, I think, and so please take a close look, Carl Barnes: make suggestions. So I happen to be at the board what works meeting the last one, which I'll describe in more detail later, that they they saw George's draft and approved it unanimously. Unknown: Commented recommendations. We'll do better than that. We'll get there. And the next item of business is benchmarking, and this is one that Iris has raised multiple times in prior meetings, and I started sort of assembling elements, and I'm not sure what we want or need to do around benchmarking at all. The one example was circulated last year I would send to you bill was Sudbury, which is a 173 page report, and it's actually really well done, really interesting. And Wayland is one of the comparison towns in that with the report on what, just how we compared other towns from a finance standpoint. I don't remember the title of it, but that's effectively what it is. Was this prepared by their finance committee? I don't know. I asked Michael McCall to check with the Sudbury folks, and one could we get Excel spreadsheets behind it, potentially. But to go a little further, the school committee has a benchmark of 13 towns, and I think it was established upwards of 10 years ago. The school committee chair Aaron suggested that they finalize that list that are re looked at that list last year, and it's a good list. I've asked Dr Fleischman to provide any examples of where that is being used in their reports or presentations. Because I went on their website looking around for stuff, and I couldn't find it being utilized at all. Finance Committee in 2019 had an exercise to do benchmarking. They picked 13 towns which were not the same towns as the 13 towns that the school committee paid. I've been some have suggested reasons for those 13 towns? I'm not sure there were two overlap towns, but 11 different. I'm not sure what questions we can answer by doing the benchmarking. The things that are distinct, as I've kind of looked at this stuff a little bit, is Wayland has almost no commercial or industrial revenue base compared to all of the other towns that are in kind of benchmarks, we have more land per capita than many of the towns around which kind of is curious for open space. So we're different in some levels. It's all the school committee towns and Wayland aspire to have really good schools, so that's sort of a similar priority of those. Some of the finance committee towns may not have that as a high priority. It's unclear to me, so I think it's worthwhile, especially if we're going to get into overrides, as we expect, for us to be able to talk to how other towns are dealing with their financial situation. So I think it would be a useful exercise for some one or two of us to sort of take on as a project that sort of delves into it and. Sees what's useful, I think you alluded to the right question. In other words, how would we use it? And what are the questions? And then work backwards into finding the talents that can help us answer that? Yeah, the other way around, you could find all sorts of things to benchmark on that we would never use. Yes, right? There is at the Mass Department of Revenue, a division of local services that maintains a spreadsheet of 352, towns and 300 measures, or some number of measures. So from a data collection standpoint, at least, there's lots of sources that can be pulled upon. So Dr Fleischman is on tap to provide examples of how they've been using it, and so I'll circulate that when that comes back. And then or Michael McCall said that they've actually, because of labor costs, they've started another cadre of benchmarking to sort of benchmark our labor costs against other towns, and so there's a set of folks that are working on something there, so he is on tap to provide that to us as well. Maybe we have in the past, even FinCom, since 2019 I think just after like, I think they're finalizing our current peer group. So I don't really know what, what, what, composing it, but we have talked about sort of rate of increase, or average tax increases year over year, comparing us with our peer groups. So I mean, we have used it in the past for, you know, whatever seems relevant in our discussions, but I think now with overrides, I mean, that would be another discussion point, which of our peer towns have had overrides, and yeah, by how much and how have they managed them on an ongoing basis? Some observations I've had is we've had way fewer overrides than lots and lots of towns. And to my knowledge, as I've skimmed it, at least our overrides have all gone through other towns. That's not the case, and that's a great example of starting with the question like, What do other towns do with overrides? And then work back to finding some other talents and comparing it, yeah, yeah.
With all of that data available,
Tom sorry, Michael, Carl Barnes: so a couple of thoughts, one of which is that
we've been asking, for example, I don't want to jump ahead, but we've been asking for comparisons and information about how other towns are treating water, and every time the answer comes back is, well, everybody's different, so you can't compare ours. And I'm not saying that's wrong, but I do think that you have to be careful with data. Yes, right. So there's that. And the second thing is that I feel like it's actually very subjective. At the end of the day, when I think about our pure towns, I think of where, if I wasn't living in Wayland, yeah, and I wanted to maintain the kind of life I have, where would I go? So I don't need the data for that. I mean, ultimately I do, yeah, right, but yeah, but you kind of know it when you see it tomorrow, a phrase from power Stewart.
Unknown: My gut is I've skimmed around this stuff would be just to adopt the Wayland school system for your towns. I a
reasonable benchmark, but I would rather, yeah, I'd rather not try to decide anything today, other than if there's a volunteer here, and maybe I'll ask Iris to volunteer as well, because she's shown interest in it. To take this on bill you up for that? I don't think
370 or 173 page reports are what's called, from here, 10 pages subject to certain conditions. I'm willing to help. Okay, so April bill is going to take the lead.
Very minimalist. We
need to know what we have to
prove, right? Has April done some work on this? Or? Sorry, Iris,
I don't think she has. I know she has raised the interest times, and that was part of the reason going to AI and they'll give you don every.
Well, so to my knowledge, no, but yes, it has come up multiple times and stuff. So I think it would be a potentially good way for Bill and Irish to kind of work together potentially on this. And I think starting with questions to be answered is completely appropriate. Cool. Soon, the scope is Finance Committee, not town. That's right, yeah. I mean, like, what do we have to know? Not the what is the town? Well, our role is really to inform the town to make good financial decisions. So it's really down you get into school and fire employees. All of that is irrelevant. So this benchmarking, okay, again, I would wait for the question. I mean, why study fire if you're not going to have to know anything about fire, well, we're going to be studying the town like the whole budget spent. It is part of the town spent, and so it's our spend high or low based on our time. Yes, you know, I guess being a first timer, I'm not sure I'm the right person, I don't know what the questions are. Okay, you guys have been through the process, and so I say, Well, what wire is fire irrelevant? You guys all know that. Yeah, got it understood. You're still help out. I'm just not sure. No, take the lead. Willing to help. Yeah? Just curious, is everyone unable to come to Tuesday night's meeting with the Joint lead? Yeah? Yeah, correct. So let's revisit this then, and maybe any of us, or all of us, can even give thoughts to what kinds of questions we're gonna want to ask. But yeah, the finance committee is mission is to really help the town make good financial decisions. Across the board. You could do a whole project on the question, yeah, every single department. It could actually make it part of the budget cycle. Whenever you talk to somebody, find out what the questions are, and actually then do the benchmarking as a part of the whole annual process. Yes, yep.
Carl Barnes: Different from that, when we talk about the questions, I don't think we need, we're asking the questions of the people who work in the various departments. I think, I think we're anticipating questions from the public as to why we're doing this. And you know, okay, so you're having your first override in 13 years. Well, first of all, that's a good fact, right? I think you know it's very helpful fact. But if you didn't have that information, it had, and you didn't know that your five pure towns are making this up, as I call one, each had overrides in the last each of the last three years, that's Unknown: really relevant data. And that gets back to your override question, which I think is very relevant, but it's like, well, do we have to know, you know, what are we paying the fire chief here versus everybody else? And it's, it's not, it's not even on that sort of granular level, I think, like we're looking at the peer group to say, Okay, we view this group of whatever 10 towns, whatever we choose as our peer group, however we want to use it in the past X years, like, how have we compared in terms of tax increases year on a year over year basis? How do we compare in terms of overrides and in our peer group, we've had six, six of the towns have had overrides, but it's just, it's, it's, it's really benchmarking. I mean, the goal is, from a high level perspective, when we're explaining what Wayland is doing and how we're doing financially, people are like, Okay, well, how are you doing versus other towns? Okay, well, who's your peer group? So that's what we need to define. So it's, it's not necessarily from, okay, what are you paying their fire chief versus someone else? It's kind of the whole budget, how things are going to high level,
the so I saw on a Wayland community Facebook site, someone was saying, Gosh, Wayland schools or high school, whichever came in at 23 and that's lower than house, yes, yeah, and yet, our taxes are higher than lots of folks. And it actually got a little bit intelligent later on. It was someone said, you know, I can move to Lexington and have 20% lower taxes. Well, Lexus and property, at least as in this Facebook stream was, you know, 30% more expensive. And so their revenues per capita are actually higher than so your actual tax dollars would be. So all of that is sort of interesting, and it's really, how do you talk to our neighbors about what's going on financially? But that's the other approach. Is identify the towns, like you said, take the school and then identify our contacts there. So whenever a question comes up, we can say, Okay, I have my 10 contacts. I'll give them a phone call tomorrow and get the answer. So rather than have a report that presupposes all the answers, wait for a question and then have 10 contacts and call, yeah, I don't know that there's people that you can call that would have answers to these kinds of questions. That's what, for example, the your counter power in each of the finance committees. And if you've had a question, have you had an override? You call the 10 or five finance chairs, and then when's the last time you had an override, or send an email or communicate with anyway, just brainstorming processes, but I think it is high level, is what we're talking about. And just sort of putting it into context, the override, and one consideration of the override is we may go into fiscal year 27, or eight, whatever becomes the year, with a multi year override. So it isn't just a single, you know, year that we're going to have to come back to the time. So we'll see. I
Yeah, so those are the three agenda items that we got through very quickly, and now we're in the water. Carl, you want to start that process?
Carl Barnes: Sure. Conclusion first, which is that one of the many emails I sent in the last couple of days included the recommendation from board public works to the stock board, and maybe to nobody's great surprise, they're recommending taxation be the source of debt
Unknown: for the MWR, Carl Barnes: yeah, I'm sorry to be, to be specific, the numbers not move since I left. You know, since the last time we talked, they're still talking about a 30, $31 million of change for the project.
Unknown: It's 38
I knew there's a two in there. See that's fire, which always kills me, the 30.2 I method. I
Carl Barnes: don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but since the meeting is not being recorded, this has been incredibly frustrating, because I feel like I feel like that board is talking in conclusions without data and and so I don't have, I can report their arguments, you know, in favor of taxation. And actually they're, to my mind, they're actually reasonably selling. But, you know, no one is able to tell us. You know, how other towns, I hate to say pure towns, but how they would have learned on this. So let me, you know, let me give you a little bit of the background here. Then there were, there were five options identified by the Board of Public Works. So the idea is, we're going to borrow this money from the state 20 year zero interest loan. And that service would start in 2019 Unknown: 29 I'm sorry,
be good. It's already in the budget. Yeah. If anyone knows Michael, it
Carl Barnes: would be about $2.1 million a year that would increase water rates over a five year period by about 74% in addition to 34% that's already been planned into the in between now and then. So they're looking at that and find, oh my gosh, yeah, that's going to more than double our order rates. That's unpalatable, so let's let taxation do it.
Unknown: There's some just to be clear, as I read their note, it's 74% over the next five years of rate increase. It includes the 32%
Yeah, that was, that was my understanding too. Carl Barnes: That was not, absolutely not my understanding. So you two agree with that. Unknown: Here it says, including the other capital items I had thought Carl, when George and I had breakfast three weeks ago that that yours was the understanding it's Carl Barnes: not what's written. I'm going to go back to him on that, because I may have heard this stated enough by that group, you know, a dozen times Unknown: the other like I was looking at the numbers too. Because if they're saying the debt service starts in 27 Seven estimate for this is for the other costs to be 1.1 to 1.5 A 32% increase over five years. Like it would seem that if you're doing twice that, it should be twice that. So it should be about 60 and 60 and 30 is about 90, which is in 74 so I'm not sure how those numbers hang.
Carl Barnes: I'm not either you can go into their 50 page water model.
So I'm going to, I'll dig into whether that 74% number is inclusive or not, because it makes, it makes a big difference. But to Bill's point, either way, it's been and part of their argument is, Hey, it's $110 million budget. What's another $2 million Unknown: of the town of the town budget? There's a
Carl Barnes: there's a there's another concern that they've got, which is that as water rates go up, water consumption will go down, but the the cost of service is fixed, so you you may not have enough money to pay the debt and run it, run the town's water supply if it's all in the water rates. To me, these are, I mean, that's not a crazy argument, but it's really hard to prove. You know, it's logical to me, but
Unknown: it's water rates annually. I mean, if they, I mean, if they got behind and they realized that was happening, they would have to adjust. Sure, they would, yep, they would have to. I mean, it's not like for a five year thing, you're locked in. So, Carl Barnes: no, I'm not defending the argument. Okay, so if we do that and we have to adjust rates upward again, that's going to put more pressure on water use. So we get this vicious cycle right? Unknown: Other context around this, apparently, water rates weren't increased last year to this year. Correct. Department of Revenue is not is concerned about eating into, Oh, I'm sorry, concerned about eating into earned or equity, I guess, in the system. And there's some conversation that these new meters that have all been put in across the town will actually report 12% higher volumes. And the old meters, they had
a decimal point off of mine that was 10 times. Okay, that's probably noticeable. Yeah, yeah, good thing. You're not supposed to be using your irrigation system. So there's a lot of variables here. The it's clear, from my standpoint, what I understand also is for not moving rates as moving rates as little as they can is easier for them. And so having, you know, whatever capital above and beyond gets borne by the town is just, you know, makes it easier. I actually think that with all of the financial circumstances of town, I don't know that the town votes in favor of a $38 million capital project and and I think that putting it into water rates is sort of in some ways easier to make sure it gets done. And I don't want us not to have potable water in the near future. So it's a combination of the two, and that has been presented or asked about multiple times, and there's no consideration that. Carl Barnes: There was consideration that the meeting okay of that but, but nobody has articulated a rational basis for the split, you know. And so then, you know, it's, you know, it's all capital cost, as far as I can tell. I'm not accounting, Unknown: right, yeah, no, it is project so, so which the water department does all the time, input into rates. I don't know the best time to insert this, but the you know, I also wear another hat, which is the Energy and Climate Committee. And if you go back into history, in 2021 the town, entire town, the county, voted for climate emergency. And then there was a climate action mitigation plan, you know, created and voted and approved by the Select Board. So when I started hearing about this, I went back and reread it, and it says that one of the goals is to reduce, you know, irrigation on a large Swan, because environmentally bad, that's what climate and it said to move the town and select. Board that signed off on this, the towns will increase the program progressivity, so in other words, increase the rates for the high users. Now that doesn't preclude also putting some of it in taxes, but this would seem like an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, to at least in part address what was in the climate plan, in terms of discouraging lots of, you know, lawn sprinkling in high usage. And so that's why I brought up the hybrid thing. I'm not sort of saying all of it has to go into the people who use water for their lawns, but we did say, as a town, that that's something you wanted to do in eastern part. So anyway, that's, that's my climate hats, making sure that that gets in, because I was a little bit over minorly, you know, surprised and disturbed. And none of this stuff did the camp document that were called, geez, we're doing a very good job of marketing the plan, because nobody seems to know about it. So But anyway, I am curious, like I saw this week that the happy hollow well was shut down for a little while. And I'm like, okay, that's the well that's working. And we're looking at this project to be only 15% of our water, right? So it's such a small portion of the water needed for the town to suppress everything, but we have the like. We have the connection already that we're using an emergency consideration. My question on the whole water issue is, as a homeowner who doesn't water their lawn, abides by the rules, doesn't have a pool. That's a big thing, right? And I looked at, I've been wanting to add a pool, but I also now with this, I'm like, there's no chance moving bankrupt, but at the same time, that's one of the things that I feel as though, it's why you would put it in the water rates is to because you're going to have so much more pressure in town that you want people to start thinking of those things right, like, so I I'm like, more on the fence of hybrid as well, because I think you could have both. But I do think the water rate needs to be part of it, because otherwise, I don't think it's a fair, fair for out the town, like, for a lot of people, especially people that live in, like, apartments, right? Yeah. Can I just ask a question, though? Because my understanding of, I mean, I just wanted to respond to the happy hollow circumstances last week, I think was in the PFAS equipment that a pipe broke, and the solution that we put in place to deal with PFAS, with this canvas building was not great. So a big chunk of money is going to be the one that we did what five years ago that it was like we had to do this emergency. We spent a ton of money temporary solution, and it sounds like it wasn't well enough engineered. So a chunk of this money, I don't remember how much is going for a permanent PFAS with a real building on it, and metal pipes and not plastic, and sort of better equipment there. So it the, it was lucky that we have the MWRA that we could tap into on an emergency basis, but, but, yeah, it's not indicative of the happy hollow aquifer having a problem. It was our equipment. So the other, the other thing that still bothers me about this whole water situation too, is that we can never go 100% to MWRA, even though we're spending all this money to get the connection, we're only spending it for a very small portion of our needs. Yeah, but to be clear, in circumstances that our well fails, we can go 100% MWRA, which I didn't think we could go 100% I thought they said, well, well fails. So there is an organization called the Water Resources Commission that is responsible for having folks use what water resources are available to them, and they won't let us, is assumed by the folks have been in front of them. They won't let us leave our well water completely because it's economically and that's the part that I understand, but it's like, the part that I didn't understand is like, we could still never go under percent, and our water restrictions will still, even with this huge investment, will still never be lifted. Yeah, I will see on the water restrictions. I've encouraged Tom holder in the water department at bpW folks to get out in front and communicate. And I thought the communication around what happened last week was really bad, because it sounded like this is an emergency, and it was basically saying, Do what you're already doing. There was no change in practices for any. It was being asked for, but so I think we need better communication on all of this. Hopkinton is moving down a path, or has been for some years now, to go 100% to MWRA, but they have wells, and one of their residents is one of the commission members and circulated around. I don't know if you've seen YouTube where he's basically long half hour videos. Basically, that comes to the conclusion, if you have a viable groundwater source, you have to use it. You can use MWRA as Augment, but you can't give up a viable groundwater source, right? Because that's what I was doing to say, is, I thought that was what we learned in the last one of those last meetings with our public works, is that we have to maintain like we can't percent because we have wells and yeah, therefore, we haven't tested that. We haven't gone in front of the water resource. The commission is saying, economically or technically, there are reasons we can't rely on our wells anymore. But there it's just, I guess it's like, it's more of like, for such a small portion of our of our water needs, we're making such a huge investment, yep, $20 million of it is for the MWRA 15, or whatever it is for the PFAS, better solution. So, yeah, Carl Barnes: well, the other way of looking at that is, you're, you're buying, you're buying an option for the future, right? If that well does fail, Unknown: and we have it right now. Sorry, we have that option right now, emergency water on an emergency water? Carl Barnes: Well, yeah, but I'm talking about an utter failure where it's not going to come back online, right? Unknown: I think we would still have emergency water. Would be not a
million dollars for permanent connection. There has been some, including Select Board members, that say this doesn't make sense. State, from the engineering standpoint, we have an emergency connection. Why? Why do we need to spend $20 million to get a permanent connection? So there's been answers provided for that. I haven't, I don't know. Is the short answer that surprised me, but it is, you know, I can't remember what it is, a half a mile long, you know, new conduit to tap into the MWRA instead of what we have right now. And I don't know why that's necessary, but I guess it is so there may be Select Board, may actually be looking to hire review engineer to come on board, to look at the engineering that has been done, to give some level of comfort to that, but there is no budget for that exercise, and it's not clear that it's going to come up with anything new. Sorry. So I'm just trying to understand what their recommendation is, because when I read this, my and I obviously concluded something different. I thought so, the MWRA interconnection the 20 million, and then the replacing the happy Holly hollow treatment facility 14, for the 14. And then, in addition to that, they've got all the other
other projects, or that, or the happy Hollow is the other projects that will increase water rates by 32% over the five years, so that those other projects include The new water tank that we put into the budget, and yes, a new pump station and some amount of water mains and other normal capital projects. Okay,
that it's the 32 and the 74 are separate. That's there's always my understanding. So, okay, so and they want to do all of that, the 74% increase, if they were to do that, which they don't, they're recommending not doing. They want to put that all into tax. So that's the 34 million, right? Yes, is that everyone's no so just this bullet says water rate increase to finance the dual source project. So that's the 30 plus million, including the other capital items, above which I thought that meant these capital items, the water tank, the pump station, water mains, okay, as written, that's what. So they want to do everything. Recommendation, yeah, the recommendation page, two papers, whole bullet, or I.
The water source project and other anticipated cost, other capital items, I don't see that, so it's the it's the first full bullet on the second page, the water increases to the finance, to finance the dual project and other anticipated cost, including the other capital items would be 74% so it does sound like that's everything altogether would be the 74% increase. It
just this is where benchmarking would really come into play. It can be really useful information. The one challenge with benchmarking is people pay all kinds of different things around their water rates, including sort of a per customer fee. So that need to be really clear about how where water rates are being collected, and if we don't pay per customer, Fay, like, you know what? I mean, like, the average water bill. Like, it'd be interesting to have that comparison, because we might be in the ballpark, even if we increased, because we're actually our cost. I saw one page which I don't know what Paul was under Wayland was in the upper tier of costs already. Can I ask a question about this. Sorry if our wells are technically free water. Where is all that money going? Like, that's my biggest like, that's my biggest meters. Yeah, well water mains. I'm not saying, Where has that money gone all these years, right? Because it's like, that's a lot of money to be spending if our rates are already high and we technically have free water, right? We pay the pumping, yeah, it's Carl Barnes: PFAS mitigation and replacing water mains. Unknown: But like, PFAS is a seven and a half percent adder on our bills now. So how long has that been true? Though, two years, I think two or three years. So whenever the projects got approved, I think they put an adder on the bills to pay for that. And the average bill for a semi annual bill is $900
so 1800 per year, yeah. And, you know, average tax bill, I can't remember, is like 15 or $20,000 so doubling your average water bill to, you know, $3,000 or something, to look big from a water bill standpoint, but you know, it kind of gets small from your tax posting. Right when I first read this, I guess that why I brought it up, I was thinking that they were recommending, like the 20 million for the MWRA hookup would be tax, and then the remainder, all the other ongoing capital projects. Capital projects would be in water rates, which I was like, Oh, that kind of, I can see how you could defend that in terms of, you know, PFAS, and you need another pub, you know, as a public good. And it's just sort of a cleaner way to separate it. I think that's a very, you know, for a hybrid solution. That's a very viable possibility, but
I don't know that's actually what was it isn't what they're proposing, no. And, you know, from a body language standpoint, I could my sense from DEP w is they just want to have someone else take costs, and they do have responsibilities to set the water rates, select board for taxes. They don't want all the complaints. But yeah, but yeah, I wondered about that too. If we were in a well water system, for you, would think we would have a fund, right? A huge and so that would what does that mean for repercussions once this goes through of how much money that we're not accumulating? You know what I mean? Like, if we went to 100% MWRA, because we had to, where's that? Like, there's going to be a huge sweep of additional expenses coming to the budget for the town. I would assume you might bring me to pay for the water to if we're using the money, that's technically free money kind of thing that's coming in or the water's free, we're utilizing whatever fund that generates on a consistent basis. If we went to 100% MRA, we no longer have that free fund, right? So then it could be a significant additional cost coming out the town that we were using to pay for. Are utilizing that fund to pay for Yeah, I hear you. It has been explained to me. I don't, haven't seen specifics. Some towns that have gone to MWRA have tried to go back to other sources because it's so expensive, but I don't know. So just sort of a bit of a tangent, but the DPW is independent of the Select Board, who do they report? Oh, no, so they bpW, yeah, has responsibilities. They basically set the water rates right. But don't they have somebody who is over them? So not over them. Select Board has other responsibilities. And select board does set, you know, taxes and alike. Well, and I don't know if you're what you're getting at is so Board of Public Works is making this recommendation on how this should be financed, right? Ultimately, Select Board will make that decision. But Select Board considers what Board of Public Works thinks, what the town manager thinks, what FinCom What if select board doesn't like the rate structure. Well, I think the rate structure is determined. The rate structure itself, the tiers, the tiers are determined by Board of Public Works, right? So that's my question is, why do they have ultimate authority? Or rather than the Select Board? We think the Select Board would have a higher authority, different areas of authority. So rates, water rates, set by DEP W and they have responsibility to make sure they're collecting enough, but the rate making is internal to them. Nobody above them, other than the voters, I guess. Yeah, okay, interesting, yeah, a little bit like the school board, yeah, yeah. But I guess if you're saying, ultimately, if you're taking on this big debt project, you know, what I'm getting at is back to my original appointments, that the, you know, the camp was approved by the Select Board. As far as I know, it's never approved, and it was never approved by the DEP, by the Department of Public Works. So the Public Works people said we didn't agree to progressive rates. They have more progressive rates. Yeah, these are some of the highest progressive they never read camp the Select Board is what, yeah, but they will say that this is some of the highest steepness of rates of any time the camp, which has got the Select Board approval, is to increase the program. It's not enough. These aren't enough. $17
that's what's in the plan that was approved. So that never, that's, I mean, you can agree, never agree with visible but yeah, no more progressive than they currently I didn't know that. Yep. So anyway, yeah, but the responsibility to select board, they've actually gone to town council to be to be clarified about their responsibilities. And that's this note that got sent around. It looks good to know for the other committee, because we need Department of Public Works into it. Yep, but Carol Martin sent to me after it got cleared by town council, so it is very clear what the Select boards responsibilities are, at least to me. No, no, that's fine. I didn't realize that the climate claim got into that specific of increasing water rates, whether anybody read it before they approved it, but it did that. How much higher it didn't say it's just more progressive. Okay, so are
they more progressive than they've been? Oh, maybe they already are. 21 Yeah. 2022 probably, yeah. When I asked George about it, why can't we make them more progressive? Says artists are the steepest progressive of any Tom that he's aware of, but so I don't know. Yeah, the overall objective isn't the progressivity of the race. It's discouraging large you could do the same thing by just banning, you know, like we do in the summer, you know, you can't sprinkle your wands that wasn't in the camp, but that would be another way of achieving the same objective.
So for Tuesday night, anything, I encourage all of us to ask whatever questions we have in you know, there will be time for that in the meeting. I think that there will be town council will be there, as I understood, and maybe Abrams will be there the economic consulting folks.
Carl Barnes: So do I do? We seem to be coming slowly to a consensus that we want some kind of hybrid approach. Unknown: I'm not sort of, I would love to look at what a hybrid approach would look like, which doesn't seem like they have done I don't Carl Barnes: think they have done that. One of the other ideas that would. Thrown out quickly, had this bump to the table quickly, and then never talked about again. Was just a connection fee. We right now we have a $60 minimum and administrative fee on every bill. You could change that to $300 or $700 or pick a number, and that was a that was thrown out, that that was never discussed as a possibility.
Unknown: I'm personally real concerned about the low income folks, and, you know, not putting excess burden on them. And then there's Tom basically and doesn't pay for water. They pay the lowest rate, yeah, the lowest rate, no matter how much they use for rec fields or whatever. And then non profits, which aren't a big deal, but they don't pay any taxes. So if we put it into the tax base, they don't pay any of that. Carl Barnes: You so we've got two principal projects. We have the connection. We have the upgrade to the happy hollow wells. I still think it's all capital, but that might be one way to separate, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unknown: It is all capital, as is the tank and all the other things are are paid for with rates Carl Barnes: that the that they've discussed, and this was with with Carol. Carol Martin was at this meeting too. Is everyone seems to be looking for a simple answer. Now, I'm not sure that's a bad thing, because you kind of then explain it to the voters, and there was concern articulated that, you know, if we if we split it, then it's going to be a, more complicated, and B, the conspiracy theorists will think we're trying to hide something we the town. Something. We the talent, yeah, and so, you know, and we've got to get it passed by Tom meeting. So that's, that's one of their arguments for. It does an argument for in favor of taxes versus water rates, but it argues for a very simple approach. And I think you'll hear that from probably both groups on Tuesday.
Unknown: My gut feels like town leading would be easier if it's just rates increasing people's tax bills, but I don't know. Yeah, I think I understand. I'm just thinking like to spread it over. I don't know it's, it's the same amount you're paying, the money, fungible. It's just how you look at it. But it just seems like that the incremental increase, percentage increase in your tax bill is is much smaller than than when you look at the water bill and it's like, oh my god, yeah, this gets high. It just seems like that's another reason to kind of try to balance a little bit a hybrid as an attractive feature. Tom me, because it's satisfying both, yeah, we're putting some in taxes. We're doing what you want. Well, yeah, we're putting some rate, we're doing what you want. What's the argument? I mean, most people aren't going to say, well, it should be 100% one way or the other. Most people are going to say, Hey, I see a good compromise. I think you need to kind of, and that's, I think it asked for that before. But just to kind of show the pros and cons of diligent approaches.
Last year, this time, we were really looking at three or four or five different water solution options. And they kept on kind of going down that path until whatever March ish time frame, ultimately everything. And it was like, have to vote for we don't have any options not doing it. Yeah. We have to do it. Yeah, just
Carl Barnes: well, if they vote against any taxation increase, I think that means the it automatically goes to race, because they don't put that population doesn't vote on that. Okay, all right, so it's gonna happen. I guess Unknown: that's when we'd solve it.
Yeah. I mean, I guess that is the easy answer. When, when it comes up on the town floor, like, well, we'll just take this out. Well, okay, then it goes on a percentage rate so, but Tom meeting in the capital budget that got approved, voted for things like the water tank rebuild. So water capital projects go in front of town meeting, even if they're being paid for in rates. I think yes, the capital Yeah, as opposed Yeah. The capital budget. Well water went separately, yeah, enterprise funds were separate, but they were but they're aligned as part of that follow up on coral for it doesn't necessarily mean we have a consensus here that we want hybrid, but it sounds like we have a consensus that we want hybrid to be considered. Yeah, there's one of the options. Yeah, that's fair. Carl Barnes: Definitely true, you know. And one of the things that you know, again, they haven't done this Unknown: yet, but, but Carl Barnes: the argument seems to be, well, you just did the math. Very back of the envelope, you know, 34 million divided by 5100 meters in town gives, you know, 66 $6,700 $6,700 a household to pay that money back over 20 years. Whether it comes out of your left pocket or your right pocket, it doesn't really matter. And so one of the things they, I think, they intend to do is actually demonstrate that with better math. Unknown: That's a good point. That's a good point. Now it Carl Barnes: ignores all the people that you were talking about, all the rate payers, or, you know, not for profits, the town low income, you know, should somebody who's using 10 times the border pay? On average?
Unknown: Yeah, that'll be a question. I would think that'll come up under either option is, how much are my rates? How much more am I going to pay every year for water? How much more am I going to pay every year in taxes?
Sure, curious that this didn't get any debate at the Board of Public Works, they just read it and said, Yes, we approve. But which one we look at George's recommendations Carl Barnes: did get some when the vote, the preliminary vote was taken, it was one vote for all taxes, one vote for all rates, for hybrid. Okay, further discussion, and that's what you saw, okay? Unknown: So, yeah, I
Carl Barnes: mean, one of the gentlemen on the committee is on board is really concerned about conservation and therefore wants to the race. And others, I think, are just trying to do the best they can. A lot of competing interests.
Unknown: And I think the Select Board has varied interests as well on this topic. So when are they going to make the decision? What's Is there a time frame? I don't, I think you know, this is all in preparation for next annual Tom sometime before. I don't know that there's a specific deadline between now and then, Carl Barnes: there's actually a procedure which I'm only beginning to even appreciate exists, and it's the code references cited in their their in their recommendation, although it doesn't explain it. The idea is that if you put it all to taxation, then the Select Board each year could decide how much needs to be offset by water rate increases. So in theory, you could put it all in there and select board to come back and say, well, at least $2.1 million we want water rates to cover Unknown: half a million dollars. Pick a number. You know, any number that may be where
Carl Barnes: you know that was what was actually described in the vote taken at the board meeting, you know, the meeting on the 18th that didn't make it into the written recommendation. I'll see
Unknown: if I can learn. So ultimately, it's the discretion of Select Board. How much should go back to Carl Barnes: water rights, effectively? Yes. So this Unknown: idea, that's what you do, hybrid in year two. And you know, in other words, each year, I guess the Select Board could decide how much of a hybrid. Carl Barnes: I think in theory, that's right, how right, what the mechanism is, especially in a world where we just all agreed that Board of Public Works sets the rates right. There are, there have to be offsets here and there. I don't know how it works. Unknown: There is some language that I think responds to that in the Select Board responses from council that basically we want to take it up every year. Yeah, yeah. Once it's in place, it'll just go but. DPW sets the rates, but Select Board can shift a portion the debt service pursuant to mass log chapter 15. So yeah, I can point that out, but they get to revisit as much as they want. I
But yeah, as far as Tuesday goes, please ask all the questions, including, like, where's all the money gone for this free water we've been pumping for decades? Where physically is that needed here? I don't know. Maybe in this room, I would assume ability to the large. I thought you said you kind of gave a little synopsis. We start here and we meet, and then we come back here. I think we'll probably what you tell me, that's what I don't think we'll be coming back here. Yeah, he did.
Yes, that, right? No, I think that's the large meeting room. Okay, well, you know where that has to all this. Carl Barnes: I kept word, got two meetings that night. Let me look at see what, what it actually says. I
Unknown: it digress a little bit. So if you have the you said, like that big matrix of 300 towns and 300 items, be nice to know what the items are. Yep, we'll do, yeah. Can you circulate that? I mean, if you don't have to look at once. Okay? So, yes, we convene at seven, right here, council lady je room, and then we adjourn to the large meeting room, which is where the platforms so and when do they when does Select Board convene or the joint meeting to meet? Is it 710 or 720 20? Carl Barnes: Okay, I have us adjourning here. 715 yep, that's fine. You know, just to give us a little leeway to get over there get settled, but i
Unknown: Anything else on water. I
Carl Barnes: think the only other information that came out of that meeting is really, I think, just confirmatory Unknown: that
Carl Barnes: the application for the I might not be quite right, the word word for it, but the project, project evaluation form, which goes into the state to get us in line for the State Revolving Fund loan, was submitted on a timely basis, and the plan right now, we should hear something more in the fall, when the state publishes what they call, what's called, an intended use plan, and then we should get formal approval, or formal notice that we're in by March, sometime in March. And Tom holder at that meeting had said that in their discussions with the state, nobody had it, and they're high at the numbers go all seemed fairly reasonable to people on the other side of the table, so they're pretty optimistic about Unknown: that. I've heard anecdotally that several towns are in this sort of 30 to $40 million water capital projects related to PFAS and the like. Think that's all I got. I
the last item of business for today, I think, is minutes. Thank you for getting them out, people. Yeah, I'll be faster as I get situated and understand the process. Forget these tonight. Quickly.
Good. We can prove them. On Monday, people have a chance to look at them, comments or questions, just, you know, I have Do you want me to tell you the ones I made already sure one, it was the list of people I just noticed that is that it's still listed chair as Michael and Carl are and Brian. So I changed those, and I removed Brian and Michael and added William. Do you like William or bill? So Bill Hus, okay, and then so. I will change that in minutes then, because I have it as w, Hus on everything, the way, is fine, but informally, okay, so I'll keep William for formal, but I'll call you bill Perfect. Okay, sorry. And then one other thing that I added, that I realized after I had sent it is the review the calendar. I just made a note about that it was attached and that we needed to we review dates in the short term to make sure we had quorum on meetings. Any other comments? Carl Barnes: Sorry, I have two small ones under the proposition two and a half override, which is Unknown: middle of page two. Okay, so it's item three on page two. Carl Barnes: Yep. I have a feeling this is a an AI problem, yep. But I've never seen half spelled out, not substantive. But the only other one that I would I have is now on the next page. First item number one, project costs, okay, once there is technical, technically correct. Confused me. Can we add after the 38 point 2 million, the phrase comma, including the contingency funds described below? Because, as I look at those numbers, you know the two, the 20 million of the 14 don't add up to 38 points, right? I just think it invites too many questions.
Unknown: Just I also have the two and a half. So that's on that two places on that spot. And I would combine three and four and just go with after still uncertain there's a possibility of excluding some debt to free up lively capacity. Specifically, that's just a continuation of that. The two and a half override, just on that one, the debt exclusion piece, the second sense, specifically the DEP W garage, I'd say the remaining debt on because it's just, just to clarify, it's like it's just a piece stub of what was left. Okay, and then on Item five, the next one it would be required. So it's not might be required. Thank you. That's it
for me. One more. Yeah,
I'm not offended. Know that. Thank you guys. Carl Barnes: We're still on page three, taxation versus water rates. You know, there you gave one completely accurate argument that they made. But I think that I wouldn't say that their, their their preference is due to concerns about ability of the water rates to cover debt. Certainly true in part. So I would add the words due in part, and the other one that I think is sorry. Tell me where that is. Unknown: Second line item six in that list, right? Thank you. Carl Barnes: Sorry I said that part. So second sentence, this is due, I would add in part. I it okay, and then end of the sentence I would end it with and to the need to fund other projects through water rates.
Unknown: Okay? And I really have done now, thank you for that. I'll go back.
So I had more on starting on the first really the second page discussion with Kelly. Call that and join the meeting for you. Zoom call is being considered. I have just for appointment by FinCom, because it's not, it's sort of like the way it sounds, sounds like it's just select board, and it's like, why do we have this in the minutes? Just to it just makes it a little bit more clear that she is our appointee. So Kelly lab and join the meeting via zoom. I would insert So Kelly is being considered. I am include for appointment by the Finance Committee, right? And then I take out, like the full to the board, yeah? Just like, cross that all out. So for one year term by the Yeah. Of to a one year term on the soon to be formed. CIPC, yeah, okay. And then the last sentence there, Kelly, did I think I had, you know, it's funny is I think I had copied the note from the beginning. Yes. Sorry. I just thought it like, I think that was probably from the agenda. I just thought it's like, if we kind of agreed, yeah, a little clearer. If anyone was curious, Kelly developed, I said, the five year capital model. Thank you. Capital planning model. Does anybody know if that committee has met?
And then the next section update regarding the fiscal 27 budget. You have the first sentence, these points highlight the major areas of focus. I just say school budget rather than school budget focus. So just take focus out.
Thank you. Sorry.
And then I guess it was all I have. That was a question, all labor the second point, labor agreements. All labor agreements, I don't know if I'd say across the board or just all down, agreements are set to expire. I'd say by June 30, 2026
I guess the process of engaging with various, I think should be labor groups not engaging with agreements. So the process of engaging with various labor groups, and I just say for fiscal year, 27 to 29 contracts, and then I cross out and closing them appropriately, like, well, just will begin this fall. I
I'm good. Bill, got any comments? I
will make sure I do a little bit of job. You'll have it fresh this round, not three A month later, with that, can we have a motion to approve the minutes as modified? So moved second, I second, all in favor, and Bill, you can abstain. Yeah, I think I was at the Oh, you were at this meeting. Sorry. Carla, read the minutes of the detail that you guys did. I will do that in a piece. So all voted in favor.
Any other business for tonight. Was going to say as an aside, because I know you do a ton of work on the minutes, whether you like doing it or not, in the Energy and Climate Committee that the town will now do the minutes for us. So the town rep, you know, Abigail shoot, does our minutes now, okay, you don't have to do so. You don't have a staff person. I was just saying, I think that there's, like, an AI version that they send me, and I'm like, why don't we just post this online, like, because it gives you everything, and even the time stamps of like, what people are talking about, yeah, that you would think, but we'll get there someday. But apparently, other committees, because Abby was telling us that she checked, and the other committees all have staff people that do it. So why are we doing it? So anyway, we should ask about that too. Again, most of the other committees do. I don't know why, and that's very recent at all, but for us, that's just been, like three or four months ago. Person we made, Brian, Kevin. I'm curious, though, what time of day you do? You guys meet during town hours same time as you guys, seven or 730 interesting. We've moved it now up a little bit more, sort of 430 so maybe that has something to do with it, because they know they had like, don't they have an allotment for like, and we've never utilized that, right there is an allotment I've seen, but didn't know that. I thought that was like hiring somebody to do like. In the past, we, we did have someone do the minutes. One of the problems was they it was, there was a lag several meetings. So then when Brian over like he took it over, he volunteered and was out the next morning. We didn't need anybody, and they were more timely than they'd ever been. But April, you usually don't have a person. It works. I can always look into it and. Yeah, that's worth asking. Most of our most hard meetings are hybrid meetings and zooms. Ai function is pretty good. I mean, nowadays, like someone, even if we had a minutes taker, they use the AI and then they kind of did a little massaging Exactly. It's not as big a job as it used to be,
you know, we used to before we rotate. So each one of us would each mean different person, which has some issues, because then the consistency is always right. The they and the test for minutes is higher bar than corporate minutes, you know, there. The intention is that reader will understand the context and the nature of the deliberation, very different than corporate words, what decision who was there and what decisions are being made. And so it's a bit of a but people feel free to check in. But if you want to, like, find other options, I just, I feel like, right now, I've been relying so much on AI that it's like, not necessarily working the most for me. So now I'm going to try to do a hybrid approach. So I'll let you know if it becomes like, Okay, I'm done with this.
I mean, it is a lot of work, yeah,
and with that, motion to adjourn, motion to adjourn second, second, all in favor. Thank you all. We can be a second at 827, we got a board to have.
further discussion on peer community benchmarking. And then the meat of discussion is around the MWRA and long term water issues. So as several documents were sent around in that one any other topics from any committee members that want to raise just the we sorry. We should probably publicly state that we had a resignation. Should it be part of the announcement? Has resigned, and so we have six
Carl Barnes: so imagine we actually record the date of that presentation. Unknown: How I can find it. There's an email from him to me into Carol Martin, remember what the date was, but officially it should go, I think, to the Tom manager, okay, I think went to the clerk. The clerk later, so that has happened the official rounds. Good, I'm fine with that. Okay, thank you for continuing to serve. But, yeah, all of us should think about other candidates to come on.
First order of business then to turn to is the fiscal year 27 budget Working Group Michael McCall with Brian o'turley, he's drafting prepared a memo to the Select Board that was delivered last week. We had a meeting yesterday with the working group, and kind of delved into it further. We're on the cusp of potentially not needing an override, or potentially needing an override, and there's many variables that won't be locked in for a while, but there's clear sort of appreciation that it would be a good idea for lots of different reasons to not do an override this year, if we can avoid it, mostly around other things that we are all going to need to be dealing with, like the long term water solution. Variables not needing an override, or for an override, include question about what will be the actual special education costs, the transportation costs and the health insurance costs, also all of the bargaining unit
that we deal with, schools, police, fire, are up for new contracts before fiscal year 27 so, and there'll likely be three year contracts, and that process needs to kind of work through for a while Before we know what the results of that all is all like, that's what I understand. Yeah, I'm surprised. I thought they were staggered. Thought there may have been one or two that weren't on the same or, yep, and fire hasn't been settled for the last Yes. So those are all factors, just for Bill. They're three year contracts, typically for collective bargaining. I don't know you have fire, so we did, obviously, 23 to 2620 Yeah, 2326 to the end of fiscal year, 26 so and we'll have to do fiscal 27 through 2029 in the next round. But we need to budget for that before the collective bargaining has been agreed upon. Three significant, there's both three significant that there are more like seven or eight police fire in schools, but there are others as well.
Carl Barnes: So you said the fire settled. We were thinking that was going to get resolved last Unknown: year. It, I mean, I remember, yeah, after week, it was. Still outstanding. Okay, so that normally wouldn't be on this cycle. I don't know. I think it would be on this cycle, but now we'll have now they're going to be working on two cycles. So okay,
there are two things that are going to be in front of Select Board on the fiscal year 27 one of which is taking a department Public Works building that was put into the general obligation fund, not into excluded debt, even though it was a $2 million or one point something million dollar project. The reasons for that have been explained to me, or had been inferred by several folks as to why at that time it wasn't, nonetheless, is looking at it now that could free up some tax levy if it was taken out of her General Obligation fund and put into excluding debt, and select board gets To make that call that does to propose it. That does require a town vote, and I think it's a majority needs to vote in favor it. So it's not a town meeting. It's an actual special election. If the slide board decides to proceed with that, that will be likely the first Tuesday of November 25 that would move that amount of capital out of the general obligation into this excluded debt.
This chair is just super so that's one. And then the second item is, instead of going on permanent debt for a number of different projects that are pending to go with what's called Bond anticipation notes. Yeah, and again, it's a Select Board decision if they want to proceed with that the bond anticipation notes do not require paying principal during the time there are temporary debt instruments and that that would reduce the burden on the town from a cash standpoint, so for all of fiscal 26 Yes. Okay, yes. Do not require principal, paying principal, like during the until the purchase period, until they get issued as permanent bonds. These the temporary bonds, so that option is being considered, and that again reduces somewhat a potential Levy. Third, thank you all the worst next year. It's not entirely clear, but yes, the fiscal year 28 start Carl Barnes: eventually the principal is going to have to start. Yeah, right, you just have that Unknown: big jump up. Yeah, yes. Fiscal 28 looks very much likely. But as I've gone through past documents, there was some consideration that fiscal year 26 was going to need to be an override, and didn't happen, and fiscal year 27 was was assumed to be needed for an override, and now it looks like maybe we're not going to be there. When was the last time we did it override? It's been about 10 years. Yeah, I've seen the numbers. I don't remember the specific. I was going to say 2013 Yeah. And the reality of overrides. I mean, if costs of operations go up more than two and a half percent a year, eventually you're going to be needing an override. It's just but you need a town vote to approve it.
So we'll see. Is the short answer. There's certainly motivation to try and minimize
it the not for locking in or anything. There's a new it head for the town, and looking at circumstances that practices in town, and surfacing possibilities for some better efficiencies, some of the software licenses and stuff, which isn't surprising, and that's kind of encouraging. There's consideration of joint dispatch with several towns, and so instead of having our town have to do dispatch by ourselves, that obviously has bargaining unit implications and other implications. It's not clear that there's going to be tremendous economic savings anytime soon, but, you know, there's definite motivation by the town to look for opportunities to be more efficient. Any questions,
I guess one of my the question, sort of one of the I. The questions I have just looking at this is just from the meadow. It sounds like 750, to a million and a half is sort of a likely,
you know, I'm just trying to find what that was exactly. That's, that's the likelihood of the override between 750 and one and a half billion. I guess, on its own, the DEP W pushing that to excluded debt offers us 700,000 so that doesn't even so that doesn't even prevent an override. So we need on its own, so we need, like, a good chunk of these other things that could help. Yeah, so we've got a lot of unknowns. Yes, we've been eating whatever every other week, every other week, the number changes a lot. As far as the gap. There was one week where it looked like the bus contracts were going to be driving things to be much more expensive. And then it got relearned that women were locked in on our bus contracts. Right now we don't have any bus contract that we have to deal with, so that lowered some of the costs substantially. Where we left last meeting was about $500,000.04 to $500,000 DEP. But I don't lock that in, because there's so many variables we don't know.
At some point we will likely be asked, do we support moving the DPW into excluded debt, and also, do we support, you know, these bond anticipatory notes? Yeah, because that would that seems like that could creep enough provide Is there a downside to moving over? It sounds like no. The only thing, and you know, we're getting bound counsel to weigh in. The only thing is, if interest rates seem to be lower now than it might be in the future, maybe it's locking it in now, but there's not anybody's guess as to what interest rates, but that's one thing To be considered.
Anything else on current budget status.
Just on that note, like someone could easily do some sensitivity on that for rates and various rates, and because it seems like my sense is we still make sense. It probably the swing factors aren't so big that it would make sense. Yeah, I agree, and that's my counsel to the working group as well. Select Board needs to get comfortable with the choices here. There were some concern that people might see this as gaming, and there was sort of like reassurance that, no, this is actually kind of prudent practice, but we'll see how those conversations continue forward. Yeah. I mean, I think using bands for a full year, it kind of is, yeah. I didn't even know that fans exist. Well, I mean, we use them. We use them periodically, yeah, regularly, yeah. And the bands, as I understand the language of them, can actually be used for up to 10 years. So it's not even like a lot and Moody's is okay with it, you know, sort of overall debt position. This is really about Proposition two and how to sort of collect the right amount of Levy. Yeah. I mean, that does seem like a good option. Yeah, yeah.
Second order of business was the annual report, which I made a very quick sort of cut and paste, as I understand it. It needs to be submitted by the chair, which will be Michael, but I need to confirm that, you know what? Actually like I looked at last year's and Brian actually drafted it okay. We all approved it, and I believe maybe I submitted it okay as the standing chair. But if it's drafted and ready to go,
so take a look at it. We. And feed me any suggestions or questions or anything you weren't there so you don't have to find if you have a comment the right place, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually a good sort of synopsis of what we did for the year. So yeah, it's good to me and drew on yours from the year before, and also from the annual town meeting report, sort of from a cut and paste. I mean, it's about 800 words, and the target is up to 1000 is it's
Carl Barnes: just, I think we can double check this, but I think we have room for that. So we haven't even drafted the agenda for the meeting after September 2, so we probably ought to put that on the agenda. Try to get you comments before then I Unknown: was we did put it on Tuesday night's agenda to the degree that there are comments that we even can bring together to that Tuesday night there we can discuss it. Then it shouldn't take a long time. When I first looked at this requirement, I thought, oh my goodness, 10 page report or something. I realized that he's simpler, and so I took her rough cut at it. But Pam has the most experience, I think, and so please take a close look, Carl Barnes: make suggestions. So I happen to be at the board what works meeting the last one, which I'll describe in more detail later, that they they saw George's draft and approved it unanimously. Unknown: Commented recommendations. We'll do better than that. We'll get there. And the next item of business is benchmarking, and this is one that Iris has raised multiple times in prior meetings, and I started sort of assembling elements, and I'm not sure what we want or need to do around benchmarking at all. The one example was circulated last year I would send to you bill was Sudbury, which is a 173 page report, and it's actually really well done, really interesting. And Wayland is one of the comparison towns in that with the report on what, just how we compared other towns from a finance standpoint. I don't remember the title of it, but that's effectively what it is. Was this prepared by their finance committee? I don't know. I asked Michael McCall to check with the Sudbury folks, and one could we get Excel spreadsheets behind it, potentially. But to go a little further, the school committee has a benchmark of 13 towns, and I think it was established upwards of 10 years ago. The school committee chair Aaron suggested that they finalize that list that are re looked at that list last year, and it's a good list. I've asked Dr Fleischman to provide any examples of where that is being used in their reports or presentations. Because I went on their website looking around for stuff, and I couldn't find it being utilized at all. Finance Committee in 2019 had an exercise to do benchmarking. They picked 13 towns which were not the same towns as the 13 towns that the school committee paid. I've been some have suggested reasons for those 13 towns? I'm not sure there were two overlap towns, but 11 different. I'm not sure what questions we can answer by doing the benchmarking. The things that are distinct, as I've kind of looked at this stuff a little bit, is Wayland has almost no commercial or industrial revenue base compared to all of the other towns that are in kind of benchmarks, we have more land per capita than many of the towns around which kind of is curious for open space. So we're different in some levels. It's all the school committee towns and Wayland aspire to have really good schools, so that's sort of a similar priority of those. Some of the finance committee towns may not have that as a high priority. It's unclear to me, so I think it's worthwhile, especially if we're going to get into overrides, as we expect, for us to be able to talk to how other towns are dealing with their financial situation. So I think it would be a useful exercise for some one or two of us to sort of take on as a project that sort of delves into it and. Sees what's useful, I think you alluded to the right question. In other words, how would we use it? And what are the questions? And then work backwards into finding the talents that can help us answer that? Yeah, the other way around, you could find all sorts of things to benchmark on that we would never use. Yes, right? There is at the Mass Department of Revenue, a division of local services that maintains a spreadsheet of 352, towns and 300 measures, or some number of measures. So from a data collection standpoint, at least, there's lots of sources that can be pulled upon. So Dr Fleischman is on tap to provide examples of how they've been using it, and so I'll circulate that when that comes back. And then or Michael McCall said that they've actually, because of labor costs, they've started another cadre of benchmarking to sort of benchmark our labor costs against other towns, and so there's a set of folks that are working on something there, so he is on tap to provide that to us as well. Maybe we have in the past, even FinCom, since 2019 I think just after like, I think they're finalizing our current peer group. So I don't really know what, what, what, composing it, but we have talked about sort of rate of increase, or average tax increases year over year, comparing us with our peer groups. So I mean, we have used it in the past for, you know, whatever seems relevant in our discussions, but I think now with overrides, I mean, that would be another discussion point, which of our peer towns have had overrides, and yeah, by how much and how have they managed them on an ongoing basis? Some observations I've had is we've had way fewer overrides than lots and lots of towns. And to my knowledge, as I've skimmed it, at least our overrides have all gone through other towns. That's not the case, and that's a great example of starting with the question like, What do other towns do with overrides? And then work back to finding some other talents and comparing it, yeah, yeah.
With all of that data available,
Tom sorry, Michael, Carl Barnes: so a couple of thoughts, one of which is that
we've been asking, for example, I don't want to jump ahead, but we've been asking for comparisons and information about how other towns are treating water, and every time the answer comes back is, well, everybody's different, so you can't compare ours. And I'm not saying that's wrong, but I do think that you have to be careful with data. Yes, right. So there's that. And the second thing is that I feel like it's actually very subjective. At the end of the day, when I think about our pure towns, I think of where, if I wasn't living in Wayland, yeah, and I wanted to maintain the kind of life I have, where would I go? So I don't need the data for that. I mean, ultimately I do, yeah, right, but yeah, but you kind of know it when you see it tomorrow, a phrase from power Stewart.
Unknown: My gut is I've skimmed around this stuff would be just to adopt the Wayland school system for your towns. I a
reasonable benchmark, but I would rather, yeah, I'd rather not try to decide anything today, other than if there's a volunteer here, and maybe I'll ask Iris to volunteer as well, because she's shown interest in it. To take this on bill you up for that? I don't think
370 or 173 page reports are what's called, from here, 10 pages subject to certain conditions. I'm willing to help. Okay, so April bill is going to take the lead.
Very minimalist. We
need to know what we have to
prove, right? Has April done some work on this? Or? Sorry, Iris,
I don't think she has. I know she has raised the interest times, and that was part of the reason going to AI and they'll give you don every.
Well, so to my knowledge, no, but yes, it has come up multiple times and stuff. So I think it would be a potentially good way for Bill and Irish to kind of work together potentially on this. And I think starting with questions to be answered is completely appropriate. Cool. Soon, the scope is Finance Committee, not town. That's right, yeah. I mean, like, what do we have to know? Not the what is the town? Well, our role is really to inform the town to make good financial decisions. So it's really down you get into school and fire employees. All of that is irrelevant. So this benchmarking, okay, again, I would wait for the question. I mean, why study fire if you're not going to have to know anything about fire, well, we're going to be studying the town like the whole budget spent. It is part of the town spent, and so it's our spend high or low based on our time. Yes, you know, I guess being a first timer, I'm not sure I'm the right person, I don't know what the questions are. Okay, you guys have been through the process, and so I say, Well, what wire is fire irrelevant? You guys all know that. Yeah, got it understood. You're still help out. I'm just not sure. No, take the lead. Willing to help. Yeah? Just curious, is everyone unable to come to Tuesday night's meeting with the Joint lead? Yeah? Yeah, correct. So let's revisit this then, and maybe any of us, or all of us, can even give thoughts to what kinds of questions we're gonna want to ask. But yeah, the finance committee is mission is to really help the town make good financial decisions. Across the board. You could do a whole project on the question, yeah, every single department. It could actually make it part of the budget cycle. Whenever you talk to somebody, find out what the questions are, and actually then do the benchmarking as a part of the whole annual process. Yes, yep.
Carl Barnes: Different from that, when we talk about the questions, I don't think we need, we're asking the questions of the people who work in the various departments. I think, I think we're anticipating questions from the public as to why we're doing this. And you know, okay, so you're having your first override in 13 years. Well, first of all, that's a good fact, right? I think you know it's very helpful fact. But if you didn't have that information, it had, and you didn't know that your five pure towns are making this up, as I call one, each had overrides in the last each of the last three years, that's Unknown: really relevant data. And that gets back to your override question, which I think is very relevant, but it's like, well, do we have to know, you know, what are we paying the fire chief here versus everybody else? And it's, it's not, it's not even on that sort of granular level, I think, like we're looking at the peer group to say, Okay, we view this group of whatever 10 towns, whatever we choose as our peer group, however we want to use it in the past X years, like, how have we compared in terms of tax increases year on a year over year basis? How do we compare in terms of overrides and in our peer group, we've had six, six of the towns have had overrides, but it's just, it's, it's, it's really benchmarking. I mean, the goal is, from a high level perspective, when we're explaining what Wayland is doing and how we're doing financially, people are like, Okay, well, how are you doing versus other towns? Okay, well, who's your peer group? So that's what we need to define. So it's, it's not necessarily from, okay, what are you paying their fire chief versus someone else? It's kind of the whole budget, how things are going to high level,
the so I saw on a Wayland community Facebook site, someone was saying, Gosh, Wayland schools or high school, whichever came in at 23 and that's lower than house, yes, yeah, and yet, our taxes are higher than lots of folks. And it actually got a little bit intelligent later on. It was someone said, you know, I can move to Lexington and have 20% lower taxes. Well, Lexus and property, at least as in this Facebook stream was, you know, 30% more expensive. And so their revenues per capita are actually higher than so your actual tax dollars would be. So all of that is sort of interesting, and it's really, how do you talk to our neighbors about what's going on financially? But that's the other approach. Is identify the towns, like you said, take the school and then identify our contacts there. So whenever a question comes up, we can say, Okay, I have my 10 contacts. I'll give them a phone call tomorrow and get the answer. So rather than have a report that presupposes all the answers, wait for a question and then have 10 contacts and call, yeah, I don't know that there's people that you can call that would have answers to these kinds of questions. That's what, for example, the your counter power in each of the finance committees. And if you've had a question, have you had an override? You call the 10 or five finance chairs, and then when's the last time you had an override, or send an email or communicate with anyway, just brainstorming processes, but I think it is high level, is what we're talking about. And just sort of putting it into context, the override, and one consideration of the override is we may go into fiscal year 27, or eight, whatever becomes the year, with a multi year override. So it isn't just a single, you know, year that we're going to have to come back to the time. So we'll see. I
Yeah, so those are the three agenda items that we got through very quickly, and now we're in the water. Carl, you want to start that process?
Carl Barnes: Sure. Conclusion first, which is that one of the many emails I sent in the last couple of days included the recommendation from board public works to the stock board, and maybe to nobody's great surprise, they're recommending taxation be the source of debt
Unknown: for the MWR, Carl Barnes: yeah, I'm sorry to be, to be specific, the numbers not move since I left. You know, since the last time we talked, they're still talking about a 30, $31 million of change for the project.
Unknown: It's 38
I knew there's a two in there. See that's fire, which always kills me, the 30.2 I method. I
Carl Barnes: don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but since the meeting is not being recorded, this has been incredibly frustrating, because I feel like I feel like that board is talking in conclusions without data and and so I don't have, I can report their arguments, you know, in favor of taxation. And actually they're, to my mind, they're actually reasonably selling. But, you know, no one is able to tell us. You know, how other towns, I hate to say pure towns, but how they would have learned on this. So let me, you know, let me give you a little bit of the background here. Then there were, there were five options identified by the Board of Public Works. So the idea is, we're going to borrow this money from the state 20 year zero interest loan. And that service would start in 2019 Unknown: 29 I'm sorry,
be good. It's already in the budget. Yeah. If anyone knows Michael, it
Carl Barnes: would be about $2.1 million a year that would increase water rates over a five year period by about 74% in addition to 34% that's already been planned into the in between now and then. So they're looking at that and find, oh my gosh, yeah, that's going to more than double our order rates. That's unpalatable, so let's let taxation do it.
Unknown: There's some just to be clear, as I read their note, it's 74% over the next five years of rate increase. It includes the 32%
Yeah, that was, that was my understanding too. Carl Barnes: That was not, absolutely not my understanding. So you two agree with that. Unknown: Here it says, including the other capital items I had thought Carl, when George and I had breakfast three weeks ago that that yours was the understanding it's Carl Barnes: not what's written. I'm going to go back to him on that, because I may have heard this stated enough by that group, you know, a dozen times Unknown: the other like I was looking at the numbers too. Because if they're saying the debt service starts in 27 Seven estimate for this is for the other costs to be 1.1 to 1.5 A 32% increase over five years. Like it would seem that if you're doing twice that, it should be twice that. So it should be about 60 and 60 and 30 is about 90, which is in 74 so I'm not sure how those numbers hang.
Carl Barnes: I'm not either you can go into their 50 page water model.
So I'm going to, I'll dig into whether that 74% number is inclusive or not, because it makes, it makes a big difference. But to Bill's point, either way, it's been and part of their argument is, Hey, it's $110 million budget. What's another $2 million Unknown: of the town of the town budget? There's a
Carl Barnes: there's a there's another concern that they've got, which is that as water rates go up, water consumption will go down, but the the cost of service is fixed, so you you may not have enough money to pay the debt and run it, run the town's water supply if it's all in the water rates. To me, these are, I mean, that's not a crazy argument, but it's really hard to prove. You know, it's logical to me, but
Unknown: it's water rates annually. I mean, if they, I mean, if they got behind and they realized that was happening, they would have to adjust. Sure, they would, yep, they would have to. I mean, it's not like for a five year thing, you're locked in. So, Carl Barnes: no, I'm not defending the argument. Okay, so if we do that and we have to adjust rates upward again, that's going to put more pressure on water use. So we get this vicious cycle right? Unknown: Other context around this, apparently, water rates weren't increased last year to this year. Correct. Department of Revenue is not is concerned about eating into, Oh, I'm sorry, concerned about eating into earned or equity, I guess, in the system. And there's some conversation that these new meters that have all been put in across the town will actually report 12% higher volumes. And the old meters, they had
a decimal point off of mine that was 10 times. Okay, that's probably noticeable. Yeah, yeah, good thing. You're not supposed to be using your irrigation system. So there's a lot of variables here. The it's clear, from my standpoint, what I understand also is for not moving rates as moving rates as little as they can is easier for them. And so having, you know, whatever capital above and beyond gets borne by the town is just, you know, makes it easier. I actually think that with all of the financial circumstances of town, I don't know that the town votes in favor of a $38 million capital project and and I think that putting it into water rates is sort of in some ways easier to make sure it gets done. And I don't want us not to have potable water in the near future. So it's a combination of the two, and that has been presented or asked about multiple times, and there's no consideration that. Carl Barnes: There was consideration that the meeting okay of that but, but nobody has articulated a rational basis for the split, you know. And so then, you know, it's, you know, it's all capital cost, as far as I can tell. I'm not accounting, Unknown: right, yeah, no, it is project so, so which the water department does all the time, input into rates. I don't know the best time to insert this, but the you know, I also wear another hat, which is the Energy and Climate Committee. And if you go back into history, in 2021 the town, entire town, the county, voted for climate emergency. And then there was a climate action mitigation plan, you know, created and voted and approved by the Select Board. So when I started hearing about this, I went back and reread it, and it says that one of the goals is to reduce, you know, irrigation on a large Swan, because environmentally bad, that's what climate and it said to move the town and select. Board that signed off on this, the towns will increase the program progressivity, so in other words, increase the rates for the high users. Now that doesn't preclude also putting some of it in taxes, but this would seem like an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, to at least in part address what was in the climate plan, in terms of discouraging lots of, you know, lawn sprinkling in high usage. And so that's why I brought up the hybrid thing. I'm not sort of saying all of it has to go into the people who use water for their lawns, but we did say, as a town, that that's something you wanted to do in eastern part. So anyway, that's, that's my climate hats, making sure that that gets in, because I was a little bit over minorly, you know, surprised and disturbed. And none of this stuff did the camp document that were called, geez, we're doing a very good job of marketing the plan, because nobody seems to know about it. So But anyway, I am curious, like I saw this week that the happy hollow well was shut down for a little while. And I'm like, okay, that's the well that's working. And we're looking at this project to be only 15% of our water, right? So it's such a small portion of the water needed for the town to suppress everything, but we have the like. We have the connection already that we're using an emergency consideration. My question on the whole water issue is, as a homeowner who doesn't water their lawn, abides by the rules, doesn't have a pool. That's a big thing, right? And I looked at, I've been wanting to add a pool, but I also now with this, I'm like, there's no chance moving bankrupt, but at the same time, that's one of the things that I feel as though, it's why you would put it in the water rates is to because you're going to have so much more pressure in town that you want people to start thinking of those things right, like, so I I'm like, more on the fence of hybrid as well, because I think you could have both. But I do think the water rate needs to be part of it, because otherwise, I don't think it's a fair, fair for out the town, like, for a lot of people, especially people that live in, like, apartments, right? Yeah. Can I just ask a question, though? Because my understanding of, I mean, I just wanted to respond to the happy hollow circumstances last week, I think was in the PFAS equipment that a pipe broke, and the solution that we put in place to deal with PFAS, with this canvas building was not great. So a big chunk of money is going to be the one that we did what five years ago that it was like we had to do this emergency. We spent a ton of money temporary solution, and it sounds like it wasn't well enough engineered. So a chunk of this money, I don't remember how much is going for a permanent PFAS with a real building on it, and metal pipes and not plastic, and sort of better equipment there. So it the, it was lucky that we have the MWRA that we could tap into on an emergency basis, but, but, yeah, it's not indicative of the happy hollow aquifer having a problem. It was our equipment. So the other, the other thing that still bothers me about this whole water situation too, is that we can never go 100% to MWRA, even though we're spending all this money to get the connection, we're only spending it for a very small portion of our needs. Yeah, but to be clear, in circumstances that our well fails, we can go 100% MWRA, which I didn't think we could go 100% I thought they said, well, well fails. So there is an organization called the Water Resources Commission that is responsible for having folks use what water resources are available to them, and they won't let us, is assumed by the folks have been in front of them. They won't let us leave our well water completely because it's economically and that's the part that I understand, but it's like, the part that I didn't understand is like, we could still never go under percent, and our water restrictions will still, even with this huge investment, will still never be lifted. Yeah, I will see on the water restrictions. I've encouraged Tom holder in the water department at bpW folks to get out in front and communicate. And I thought the communication around what happened last week was really bad, because it sounded like this is an emergency, and it was basically saying, Do what you're already doing. There was no change in practices for any. It was being asked for, but so I think we need better communication on all of this. Hopkinton is moving down a path, or has been for some years now, to go 100% to MWRA, but they have wells, and one of their residents is one of the commission members and circulated around. I don't know if you've seen YouTube where he's basically long half hour videos. Basically, that comes to the conclusion, if you have a viable groundwater source, you have to use it. You can use MWRA as Augment, but you can't give up a viable groundwater source, right? Because that's what I was doing to say, is, I thought that was what we learned in the last one of those last meetings with our public works, is that we have to maintain like we can't percent because we have wells and yeah, therefore, we haven't tested that. We haven't gone in front of the water resource. The commission is saying, economically or technically, there are reasons we can't rely on our wells anymore. But there it's just, I guess it's like, it's more of like, for such a small portion of our of our water needs, we're making such a huge investment, yep, $20 million of it is for the MWRA 15, or whatever it is for the PFAS, better solution. So, yeah, Carl Barnes: well, the other way of looking at that is, you're, you're buying, you're buying an option for the future, right? If that well does fail, Unknown: and we have it right now. Sorry, we have that option right now, emergency water on an emergency water? Carl Barnes: Well, yeah, but I'm talking about an utter failure where it's not going to come back online, right? Unknown: I think we would still have emergency water. Would be not a
million dollars for permanent connection. There has been some, including Select Board members, that say this doesn't make sense. State, from the engineering standpoint, we have an emergency connection. Why? Why do we need to spend $20 million to get a permanent connection? So there's been answers provided for that. I haven't, I don't know. Is the short answer that surprised me, but it is, you know, I can't remember what it is, a half a mile long, you know, new conduit to tap into the MWRA instead of what we have right now. And I don't know why that's necessary, but I guess it is so there may be Select Board, may actually be looking to hire review engineer to come on board, to look at the engineering that has been done, to give some level of comfort to that, but there is no budget for that exercise, and it's not clear that it's going to come up with anything new. Sorry. So I'm just trying to understand what their recommendation is, because when I read this, my and I obviously concluded something different. I thought so, the MWRA interconnection the 20 million, and then the replacing the happy Holly hollow treatment facility 14, for the 14. And then, in addition to that, they've got all the other
other projects, or that, or the happy Hollow is the other projects that will increase water rates by 32% over the five years, so that those other projects include The new water tank that we put into the budget, and yes, a new pump station and some amount of water mains and other normal capital projects. Okay,
that it's the 32 and the 74 are separate. That's there's always my understanding. So, okay, so and they want to do all of that, the 74% increase, if they were to do that, which they don't, they're recommending not doing. They want to put that all into tax. So that's the 34 million, right? Yes, is that everyone's no so just this bullet says water rate increase to finance the dual source project. So that's the 30 plus million, including the other capital items, above which I thought that meant these capital items, the water tank, the pump station, water mains, okay, as written, that's what. So they want to do everything. Recommendation, yeah, the recommendation page, two papers, whole bullet, or I.
The water source project and other anticipated cost, other capital items, I don't see that, so it's the it's the first full bullet on the second page, the water increases to the finance, to finance the dual project and other anticipated cost, including the other capital items would be 74% so it does sound like that's everything altogether would be the 74% increase. It
just this is where benchmarking would really come into play. It can be really useful information. The one challenge with benchmarking is people pay all kinds of different things around their water rates, including sort of a per customer fee. So that need to be really clear about how where water rates are being collected, and if we don't pay per customer, Fay, like, you know what? I mean, like, the average water bill. Like, it'd be interesting to have that comparison, because we might be in the ballpark, even if we increased, because we're actually our cost. I saw one page which I don't know what Paul was under Wayland was in the upper tier of costs already. Can I ask a question about this. Sorry if our wells are technically free water. Where is all that money going? Like, that's my biggest like, that's my biggest meters. Yeah, well water mains. I'm not saying, Where has that money gone all these years, right? Because it's like, that's a lot of money to be spending if our rates are already high and we technically have free water, right? We pay the pumping, yeah, it's Carl Barnes: PFAS mitigation and replacing water mains. Unknown: But like, PFAS is a seven and a half percent adder on our bills now. So how long has that been true? Though, two years, I think two or three years. So whenever the projects got approved, I think they put an adder on the bills to pay for that. And the average bill for a semi annual bill is $900
so 1800 per year, yeah. And, you know, average tax bill, I can't remember, is like 15 or $20,000 so doubling your average water bill to, you know, $3,000 or something, to look big from a water bill standpoint, but you know, it kind of gets small from your tax posting. Right when I first read this, I guess that why I brought it up, I was thinking that they were recommending, like the 20 million for the MWRA hookup would be tax, and then the remainder, all the other ongoing capital projects. Capital projects would be in water rates, which I was like, Oh, that kind of, I can see how you could defend that in terms of, you know, PFAS, and you need another pub, you know, as a public good. And it's just sort of a cleaner way to separate it. I think that's a very, you know, for a hybrid solution. That's a very viable possibility, but
I don't know that's actually what was it isn't what they're proposing, no. And, you know, from a body language standpoint, I could my sense from DEP w is they just want to have someone else take costs, and they do have responsibilities to set the water rates, select board for taxes. They don't want all the complaints. But yeah, but yeah, I wondered about that too. If we were in a well water system, for you, would think we would have a fund, right? A huge and so that would what does that mean for repercussions once this goes through of how much money that we're not accumulating? You know what I mean? Like, if we went to 100% MWRA, because we had to, where's that? Like, there's going to be a huge sweep of additional expenses coming to the budget for the town. I would assume you might bring me to pay for the water to if we're using the money, that's technically free money kind of thing that's coming in or the water's free, we're utilizing whatever fund that generates on a consistent basis. If we went to 100% MRA, we no longer have that free fund, right? So then it could be a significant additional cost coming out the town that we were using to pay for. Are utilizing that fund to pay for Yeah, I hear you. It has been explained to me. I don't, haven't seen specifics. Some towns that have gone to MWRA have tried to go back to other sources because it's so expensive, but I don't know. So just sort of a bit of a tangent, but the DPW is independent of the Select Board, who do they report? Oh, no, so they bpW, yeah, has responsibilities. They basically set the water rates right. But don't they have somebody who is over them? So not over them. Select Board has other responsibilities. And select board does set, you know, taxes and alike. Well, and I don't know if you're what you're getting at is so Board of Public Works is making this recommendation on how this should be financed, right? Ultimately, Select Board will make that decision. But Select Board considers what Board of Public Works thinks, what the town manager thinks, what FinCom What if select board doesn't like the rate structure. Well, I think the rate structure is determined. The rate structure itself, the tiers, the tiers are determined by Board of Public Works, right? So that's my question is, why do they have ultimate authority? Or rather than the Select Board? We think the Select Board would have a higher authority, different areas of authority. So rates, water rates, set by DEP W and they have responsibility to make sure they're collecting enough, but the rate making is internal to them. Nobody above them, other than the voters, I guess. Yeah, okay, interesting, yeah, a little bit like the school board, yeah, yeah. But I guess if you're saying, ultimately, if you're taking on this big debt project, you know, what I'm getting at is back to my original appointments, that the, you know, the camp was approved by the Select Board. As far as I know, it's never approved, and it was never approved by the DEP, by the Department of Public Works. So the Public Works people said we didn't agree to progressive rates. They have more progressive rates. Yeah, these are some of the highest progressive they never read camp the Select Board is what, yeah, but they will say that this is some of the highest steepness of rates of any time the camp, which has got the Select Board approval, is to increase the program. It's not enough. These aren't enough. $17
that's what's in the plan that was approved. So that never, that's, I mean, you can agree, never agree with visible but yeah, no more progressive than they currently I didn't know that. Yep. So anyway, yeah, but the responsibility to select board, they've actually gone to town council to be to be clarified about their responsibilities. And that's this note that got sent around. It looks good to know for the other committee, because we need Department of Public Works into it. Yep, but Carol Martin sent to me after it got cleared by town council, so it is very clear what the Select boards responsibilities are, at least to me. No, no, that's fine. I didn't realize that the climate claim got into that specific of increasing water rates, whether anybody read it before they approved it, but it did that. How much higher it didn't say it's just more progressive. Okay, so are
they more progressive than they've been? Oh, maybe they already are. 21 Yeah. 2022 probably, yeah. When I asked George about it, why can't we make them more progressive? Says artists are the steepest progressive of any Tom that he's aware of, but so I don't know. Yeah, the overall objective isn't the progressivity of the race. It's discouraging large you could do the same thing by just banning, you know, like we do in the summer, you know, you can't sprinkle your wands that wasn't in the camp, but that would be another way of achieving the same objective.
So for Tuesday night, anything, I encourage all of us to ask whatever questions we have in you know, there will be time for that in the meeting. I think that there will be town council will be there, as I understood, and maybe Abrams will be there the economic consulting folks.
Carl Barnes: So do I do? We seem to be coming slowly to a consensus that we want some kind of hybrid approach. Unknown: I'm not sort of, I would love to look at what a hybrid approach would look like, which doesn't seem like they have done I don't Carl Barnes: think they have done that. One of the other ideas that would. Thrown out quickly, had this bump to the table quickly, and then never talked about again. Was just a connection fee. We right now we have a $60 minimum and administrative fee on every bill. You could change that to $300 or $700 or pick a number, and that was a that was thrown out, that that was never discussed as a possibility.
Unknown: I'm personally real concerned about the low income folks, and, you know, not putting excess burden on them. And then there's Tom basically and doesn't pay for water. They pay the lowest rate, yeah, the lowest rate, no matter how much they use for rec fields or whatever. And then non profits, which aren't a big deal, but they don't pay any taxes. So if we put it into the tax base, they don't pay any of that. Carl Barnes: You so we've got two principal projects. We have the connection. We have the upgrade to the happy hollow wells. I still think it's all capital, but that might be one way to separate, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unknown: It is all capital, as is the tank and all the other things are are paid for with rates Carl Barnes: that the that they've discussed, and this was with with Carol. Carol Martin was at this meeting too. Is everyone seems to be looking for a simple answer. Now, I'm not sure that's a bad thing, because you kind of then explain it to the voters, and there was concern articulated that, you know, if we if we split it, then it's going to be a, more complicated, and B, the conspiracy theorists will think we're trying to hide something we the town. Something. We the talent, yeah, and so, you know, and we've got to get it passed by Tom meeting. So that's, that's one of their arguments for. It does an argument for in favor of taxes versus water rates, but it argues for a very simple approach. And I think you'll hear that from probably both groups on Tuesday.
Unknown: My gut feels like town leading would be easier if it's just rates increasing people's tax bills, but I don't know. Yeah, I think I understand. I'm just thinking like to spread it over. I don't know it's, it's the same amount you're paying, the money, fungible. It's just how you look at it. But it just seems like that the incremental increase, percentage increase in your tax bill is is much smaller than than when you look at the water bill and it's like, oh my god, yeah, this gets high. It just seems like that's another reason to kind of try to balance a little bit a hybrid as an attractive feature. Tom me, because it's satisfying both, yeah, we're putting some in taxes. We're doing what you want. Well, yeah, we're putting some rate, we're doing what you want. What's the argument? I mean, most people aren't going to say, well, it should be 100% one way or the other. Most people are going to say, Hey, I see a good compromise. I think you need to kind of, and that's, I think it asked for that before. But just to kind of show the pros and cons of diligent approaches.
Last year, this time, we were really looking at three or four or five different water solution options. And they kept on kind of going down that path until whatever March ish time frame, ultimately everything. And it was like, have to vote for we don't have any options not doing it. Yeah. We have to do it. Yeah, just
Carl Barnes: well, if they vote against any taxation increase, I think that means the it automatically goes to race, because they don't put that population doesn't vote on that. Okay, all right, so it's gonna happen. I guess Unknown: that's when we'd solve it.
Yeah. I mean, I guess that is the easy answer. When, when it comes up on the town floor, like, well, we'll just take this out. Well, okay, then it goes on a percentage rate so, but Tom meeting in the capital budget that got approved, voted for things like the water tank rebuild. So water capital projects go in front of town meeting, even if they're being paid for in rates. I think yes, the capital Yeah, as opposed Yeah. The capital budget. Well water went separately, yeah, enterprise funds were separate, but they were but they're aligned as part of that follow up on coral for it doesn't necessarily mean we have a consensus here that we want hybrid, but it sounds like we have a consensus that we want hybrid to be considered. Yeah, there's one of the options. Yeah, that's fair. Carl Barnes: Definitely true, you know. And one of the things that you know, again, they haven't done this Unknown: yet, but, but Carl Barnes: the argument seems to be, well, you just did the math. Very back of the envelope, you know, 34 million divided by 5100 meters in town gives, you know, 66 $6,700 $6,700 a household to pay that money back over 20 years. Whether it comes out of your left pocket or your right pocket, it doesn't really matter. And so one of the things they, I think, they intend to do is actually demonstrate that with better math. Unknown: That's a good point. That's a good point. Now it Carl Barnes: ignores all the people that you were talking about, all the rate payers, or, you know, not for profits, the town low income, you know, should somebody who's using 10 times the border pay? On average?
Unknown: Yeah, that'll be a question. I would think that'll come up under either option is, how much are my rates? How much more am I going to pay every year for water? How much more am I going to pay every year in taxes?
Sure, curious that this didn't get any debate at the Board of Public Works, they just read it and said, Yes, we approve. But which one we look at George's recommendations Carl Barnes: did get some when the vote, the preliminary vote was taken, it was one vote for all taxes, one vote for all rates, for hybrid. Okay, further discussion, and that's what you saw, okay? Unknown: So, yeah, I
Carl Barnes: mean, one of the gentlemen on the committee is on board is really concerned about conservation and therefore wants to the race. And others, I think, are just trying to do the best they can. A lot of competing interests.
Unknown: And I think the Select Board has varied interests as well on this topic. So when are they going to make the decision? What's Is there a time frame? I don't, I think you know, this is all in preparation for next annual Tom sometime before. I don't know that there's a specific deadline between now and then, Carl Barnes: there's actually a procedure which I'm only beginning to even appreciate exists, and it's the code references cited in their their in their recommendation, although it doesn't explain it. The idea is that if you put it all to taxation, then the Select Board each year could decide how much needs to be offset by water rate increases. So in theory, you could put it all in there and select board to come back and say, well, at least $2.1 million we want water rates to cover Unknown: half a million dollars. Pick a number. You know, any number that may be where
Carl Barnes: you know that was what was actually described in the vote taken at the board meeting, you know, the meeting on the 18th that didn't make it into the written recommendation. I'll see
Unknown: if I can learn. So ultimately, it's the discretion of Select Board. How much should go back to Carl Barnes: water rights, effectively? Yes. So this Unknown: idea, that's what you do, hybrid in year two. And you know, in other words, each year, I guess the Select Board could decide how much of a hybrid. Carl Barnes: I think in theory, that's right, how right, what the mechanism is, especially in a world where we just all agreed that Board of Public Works sets the rates right. There are, there have to be offsets here and there. I don't know how it works. Unknown: There is some language that I think responds to that in the Select Board responses from council that basically we want to take it up every year. Yeah, yeah. Once it's in place, it'll just go but. DPW sets the rates, but Select Board can shift a portion the debt service pursuant to mass log chapter 15. So yeah, I can point that out, but they get to revisit as much as they want. I
But yeah, as far as Tuesday goes, please ask all the questions, including, like, where's all the money gone for this free water we've been pumping for decades? Where physically is that needed here? I don't know. Maybe in this room, I would assume ability to the large. I thought you said you kind of gave a little synopsis. We start here and we meet, and then we come back here. I think we'll probably what you tell me, that's what I don't think we'll be coming back here. Yeah, he did.
Yes, that, right? No, I think that's the large meeting room. Okay, well, you know where that has to all this. Carl Barnes: I kept word, got two meetings that night. Let me look at see what, what it actually says. I
Unknown: it digress a little bit. So if you have the you said, like that big matrix of 300 towns and 300 items, be nice to know what the items are. Yep, we'll do, yeah. Can you circulate that? I mean, if you don't have to look at once. Okay? So, yes, we convene at seven, right here, council lady je room, and then we adjourn to the large meeting room, which is where the platforms so and when do they when does Select Board convene or the joint meeting to meet? Is it 710 or 720 20? Carl Barnes: Okay, I have us adjourning here. 715 yep, that's fine. You know, just to give us a little leeway to get over there get settled, but i
Unknown: Anything else on water. I
Carl Barnes: think the only other information that came out of that meeting is really, I think, just confirmatory Unknown: that
Carl Barnes: the application for the I might not be quite right, the word word for it, but the project, project evaluation form, which goes into the state to get us in line for the State Revolving Fund loan, was submitted on a timely basis, and the plan right now, we should hear something more in the fall, when the state publishes what they call, what's called, an intended use plan, and then we should get formal approval, or formal notice that we're in by March, sometime in March. And Tom holder at that meeting had said that in their discussions with the state, nobody had it, and they're high at the numbers go all seemed fairly reasonable to people on the other side of the table, so they're pretty optimistic about Unknown: that. I've heard anecdotally that several towns are in this sort of 30 to $40 million water capital projects related to PFAS and the like. Think that's all I got. I
the last item of business for today, I think, is minutes. Thank you for getting them out, people. Yeah, I'll be faster as I get situated and understand the process. Forget these tonight. Quickly.
Good. We can prove them. On Monday, people have a chance to look at them, comments or questions, just, you know, I have Do you want me to tell you the ones I made already sure one, it was the list of people I just noticed that is that it's still listed chair as Michael and Carl are and Brian. So I changed those, and I removed Brian and Michael and added William. Do you like William or bill? So Bill Hus, okay, and then so. I will change that in minutes then, because I have it as w, Hus on everything, the way, is fine, but informally, okay, so I'll keep William for formal, but I'll call you bill Perfect. Okay, sorry. And then one other thing that I added, that I realized after I had sent it is the review the calendar. I just made a note about that it was attached and that we needed to we review dates in the short term to make sure we had quorum on meetings. Any other comments? Carl Barnes: Sorry, I have two small ones under the proposition two and a half override, which is Unknown: middle of page two. Okay, so it's item three on page two. Carl Barnes: Yep. I have a feeling this is a an AI problem, yep. But I've never seen half spelled out, not substantive. But the only other one that I would I have is now on the next page. First item number one, project costs, okay, once there is technical, technically correct. Confused me. Can we add after the 38 point 2 million, the phrase comma, including the contingency funds described below? Because, as I look at those numbers, you know the two, the 20 million of the 14 don't add up to 38 points, right? I just think it invites too many questions.
Unknown: Just I also have the two and a half. So that's on that two places on that spot. And I would combine three and four and just go with after still uncertain there's a possibility of excluding some debt to free up lively capacity. Specifically, that's just a continuation of that. The two and a half override, just on that one, the debt exclusion piece, the second sense, specifically the DEP W garage, I'd say the remaining debt on because it's just, just to clarify, it's like it's just a piece stub of what was left. Okay, and then on Item five, the next one it would be required. So it's not might be required. Thank you. That's it
for me. One more. Yeah,
I'm not offended. Know that. Thank you guys. Carl Barnes: We're still on page three, taxation versus water rates. You know, there you gave one completely accurate argument that they made. But I think that I wouldn't say that their, their their preference is due to concerns about ability of the water rates to cover debt. Certainly true in part. So I would add the words due in part, and the other one that I think is sorry. Tell me where that is. Unknown: Second line item six in that list, right? Thank you. Carl Barnes: Sorry I said that part. So second sentence, this is due, I would add in part. I it okay, and then end of the sentence I would end it with and to the need to fund other projects through water rates.
Unknown: Okay? And I really have done now, thank you for that. I'll go back.
So I had more on starting on the first really the second page discussion with Kelly. Call that and join the meeting for you. Zoom call is being considered. I have just for appointment by FinCom, because it's not, it's sort of like the way it sounds, sounds like it's just select board, and it's like, why do we have this in the minutes? Just to it just makes it a little bit more clear that she is our appointee. So Kelly lab and join the meeting via zoom. I would insert So Kelly is being considered. I am include for appointment by the Finance Committee, right? And then I take out, like the full to the board, yeah? Just like, cross that all out. So for one year term by the Yeah. Of to a one year term on the soon to be formed. CIPC, yeah, okay. And then the last sentence there, Kelly, did I think I had, you know, it's funny is I think I had copied the note from the beginning. Yes. Sorry. I just thought it like, I think that was probably from the agenda. I just thought it's like, if we kind of agreed, yeah, a little clearer. If anyone was curious, Kelly developed, I said, the five year capital model. Thank you. Capital planning model. Does anybody know if that committee has met?
And then the next section update regarding the fiscal 27 budget. You have the first sentence, these points highlight the major areas of focus. I just say school budget rather than school budget focus. So just take focus out.
Thank you. Sorry.
And then I guess it was all I have. That was a question, all labor the second point, labor agreements. All labor agreements, I don't know if I'd say across the board or just all down, agreements are set to expire. I'd say by June 30, 2026
I guess the process of engaging with various, I think should be labor groups not engaging with agreements. So the process of engaging with various labor groups, and I just say for fiscal year, 27 to 29 contracts, and then I cross out and closing them appropriately, like, well, just will begin this fall. I
I'm good. Bill, got any comments? I
will make sure I do a little bit of job. You'll have it fresh this round, not three A month later, with that, can we have a motion to approve the minutes as modified? So moved second, I second, all in favor, and Bill, you can abstain. Yeah, I think I was at the Oh, you were at this meeting. Sorry. Carla, read the minutes of the detail that you guys did. I will do that in a piece. So all voted in favor.
Any other business for tonight. Was going to say as an aside, because I know you do a ton of work on the minutes, whether you like doing it or not, in the Energy and Climate Committee that the town will now do the minutes for us. So the town rep, you know, Abigail shoot, does our minutes now, okay, you don't have to do so. You don't have a staff person. I was just saying, I think that there's, like, an AI version that they send me, and I'm like, why don't we just post this online, like, because it gives you everything, and even the time stamps of like, what people are talking about, yeah, that you would think, but we'll get there someday. But apparently, other committees, because Abby was telling us that she checked, and the other committees all have staff people that do it. So why are we doing it? So anyway, we should ask about that too. Again, most of the other committees do. I don't know why, and that's very recent at all, but for us, that's just been, like three or four months ago. Person we made, Brian, Kevin. I'm curious, though, what time of day you do? You guys meet during town hours same time as you guys, seven or 730 interesting. We've moved it now up a little bit more, sort of 430 so maybe that has something to do with it, because they know they had like, don't they have an allotment for like, and we've never utilized that, right there is an allotment I've seen, but didn't know that. I thought that was like hiring somebody to do like. In the past, we, we did have someone do the minutes. One of the problems was they it was, there was a lag several meetings. So then when Brian over like he took it over, he volunteered and was out the next morning. We didn't need anybody, and they were more timely than they'd ever been. But April, you usually don't have a person. It works. I can always look into it and. Yeah, that's worth asking. Most of our most hard meetings are hybrid meetings and zooms. Ai function is pretty good. I mean, nowadays, like someone, even if we had a minutes taker, they use the AI and then they kind of did a little massaging Exactly. It's not as big a job as it used to be,
you know, we used to before we rotate. So each one of us would each mean different person, which has some issues, because then the consistency is always right. The they and the test for minutes is higher bar than corporate minutes, you know, there. The intention is that reader will understand the context and the nature of the deliberation, very different than corporate words, what decision who was there and what decisions are being made. And so it's a bit of a but people feel free to check in. But if you want to, like, find other options, I just, I feel like, right now, I've been relying so much on AI that it's like, not necessarily working the most for me. So now I'm going to try to do a hybrid approach. So I'll let you know if it becomes like, Okay, I'm done with this.
I mean, it is a lot of work, yeah,
and with that, motion to adjourn, motion to adjourn second, second, all in favor. Thank you all. We can be a second at 827, we got a board to have.
Finance Committee Appointing Board
18-Sep-25 - Finance Committee Appointing Board
Cherry Karlson: Jailyn making is
functional. I'm going to call us
to order Thursday, September 18
of 2025, at 330 in the
afternoon, via zoom. This is a
meeting of the Finance Committee
appointing board. This meeting
will be only remote. You can
join on the town website. We
will also take public comment
that way. There is no in person
attendance. We will have public
comment, as I mentioned, and you
can access that through the town
link. Let's see the meeting is
being recorded and will be
available on WayCAM, according
to their policies. So I'm going
to quickly. Oh, and today, we
have Carol Martin, Miranda Jones
and myself. Cherry Karlson,
okay, check all those boxes. I'm
going to review the agenda for
the public. Then we will have
announcements from the board and
any public comment. We'll look
at our minutes from the last
meeting in June. We'll look at
the annual reports that we can
submit it on time by the end of
the month. We'll talk about
recruitment efforts. We'll talk
about the leadership of this
committee and vote of chair for
the remainder of this year. We
can talk about next meeting
dates and reports and concerns.
I don't have any topics not
reasonably anticipated, and then
we'll adjourn close to four
o'clock today. So are there any
announcements from the board?
Okay, seeing none. We'll move to
public comment. Is there any
public comment?
Jailyn Bratica: I see no one.
Cherry Karlson: Okay, thank you,
Jailyn. So we will move on from
public comment. Let's take a
look at the minutes from June 3.
Carol. Thank you for putting
those together.
Carol Martin: I I forgot to put
draft minutes on the top. Sorry.
Cherry Karlson: It's okay. We
the the agenda calls them as
draft, so we're good. I There's
one. I'm not seeing it now. I
thought there was one typo. Oh,
bottom of the first page only
because my computer is picking
this up. Publicizing is missing
a C under Finance Committee
recruitment.
Carol Martin: Oh, that's the next second. That's the second second page. Oh, yeah, on my just put it in. Cherry. Can I ask you to do that? Miranda Jones: No, I just fixed that. Well, it should be, it should be a CI, not a CI, right? Not a Z. Carol Martin: Oh, yeah, there's not enough letters there. Miranda Jones: Yeah, you're missing two
Cherry Karlson: funny my autocorrect wants to make it publishing, but I will work on that. So, yes, Carol Martin: I think that's fair. I suppose. What was happening with me, and I kept trying to put it back and then eventually auto correct won. Because why don't we just take Cherry Karlson: it? I'm just going to go with auto correct and make it publishing it accomplishes the same thing candidates, including publishing the recruitment statement. Yeah, okay, I didn't have anything else, Miranda, did? Miranda Jones: You know? Nope, not at all. I can make a motion to adopt as amended or approved a motion to approve as amended. Excuse me, Carol Martin: Second. Thank you, Carol,
Cherry Karlson: as amended. Any other comments? Okay, so we have a motion to approve as amended. We'll do a roll call vote. Carol, yes. Miranda, yep. Carry, yes, it's three to zero on the minutes. Do I have someone who would take minutes Miranda Jones: I am doing it right now? Sorry, I should have told you that. Cherry Karlson: No, that's okay. Thanks. Miranda, Miranda Jones: yeah, of course.
Cherry Karlson: Okay, and I'll send those in, since I just made the change to the copy that I have, so I'll send them in so that we're online. Miranda Jones: Thank you. T The Okay, great, Cherry Karlson: but yeah, so I'll take care of that. Okay, the annual report. So due by the end of the month, I drafted this sort of based on what we did last year. Did it a little bit chronologically. I can easily get it to one page if we take out the vice chair and the second secretary line, seeing as we don't have anybody, Miranda Jones: yeah, I wouldn't, yeah. So yeah, you need, okay, yeah, I would get rid of those. There's no need Cherry Karlson: with the ex officio. I'll get rid of that. Miranda Jones: Yep, great. Okay, Carol Martin: we need a capital C and chair on Select Board, seeing how we have initial caps on the Miranda Jones: Yeah, it's a title that's fine. Give it a capital C, yeah. It would, okay, yeah, I would, yeah. Cherry Karlson: That's good, no, especially because it says member capitalized, chair should be capitalized, yes, so, and that's our role on this board. So, yes, right, Carol Martin: okay, I will say there's I make a motion to approve, but I, one thought, with what I did with the Select Board, um, annual submission. It's from the chair, but you know, really, the committee does the whole work, so I've submitted it, Respectfully submitted on behalf of the board. And I don't know if you'd like if there. This is a small committee. It doesn't matter. But I just thought, this one respect this on behalf of the committee, right? That sounds Yep. And then Cherry Karlson: I was just, it just comes that as you know, it just comes that way in the template. So I have no issue with that, so I'll make that change, Carol Martin: right? That was the same with we said, but I thought, I mean, I've got five members more, all doing the work. So, all right, so I'm going to move that we approve the 2025, annual report submission as amended.
Miranda Jones: I will second discussion. Yep,
Cherry Karlson: any thing else I chose in the draft. I did not put in the names of the candidates that we interviewed. I just went with what the process was, okay. I just wanted to make certain that I called that out there Miranda Jones: in our meeting minutes with these people, exactly. Cherry Karlson: It's very easy to this is, yeah, just a report, simple report, agreed of her important work. Carol Martin: Jailyn will have her happy face on with us now. I know I got a big list yesterday who wasn't in. Cherry Karlson: Oh, I Jailyn knew that this is when we were meeting, so I know. Okay, so we have a motion and a second to amended any other discussion. No hearing, none. We'll take a vote, a roll call vote. Miranda, Miranda Jones: yes. Carol Yes. Cherry Karlson: Cherry, yes. Three to zero. Thank you guys, sure. Recruitment. Jailyn, you know, has done a couple of things for us. She got a blurb in the town newsletter that then linked through to the more complete statement, and she right after labor day of school was really getting going, she reposted the recruitment statement, and I just updated the dates at the bottom because it was a little stale after our January meeting, but I didn't make any changes To the body of it. And we do have one gentleman who is doing research with the chair and the former vice chair, and that was active last week, so I'll reach out to him following this meeting and see if he has done enough homework that if he's interested in continuing. But we do have two open seats right now. There is a piece in the packet, but it just shows that, you know, with the resignation, we now have one seat expiring in 27 and one in 28. Pam Roman has been, you know, very helpful, and is still there. But, you know, pending any other information, we do still have one seat. We have two seats to fill right now, and one active candidate. And so I would just say, if you've got other ideas, Carol, I know we had talked before about whether or not we wanted to put anything in the in the town newspaper that gets mailed to everybody, you know, I have Carol knows, I've touched base, you know, individually with other people on the Select Board, just to say that we're looking. I know the Chair of the Finance Committee is, you know, actively looking, Miranda Jones: I'm sorry. Besides, Pam, who else do Unknown: we have the we had the resignation from Michael Hoyle. Michael Hoyle, thank you. I was going to say the gentleman that that was chair, right? So, and he started a new job and needed to resign immediately. Miranda Jones: So that was, yeah, but, but he's not even listed on here. Unknown: No, once they once they resign. the way the software works, Miranda, it comes off, which, okay, fortunately, it doesn't list the open seat. But you can tell by the expiry dates that it would have been 2027, yeah, okay, a two year position and a three year position.
Carol Martin: And we are grateful Tom, I'm sorry, Miranda Jones: sorry we have, currently have two seats we need to fill. Yes, and Pam is just hanging on, hanging on until we find her replacement. Okay, we Carol Martin: are most grateful to her for that, because being an invaluable resource for the new chair who is only in a second year of the finance committee, so the institutional knowledge is just invaluable. Cherry Karlson: And when I do have candidates, I do and I handle it all in one email so they all know. But I do have them reach out to the Chair of the Finance Committee, but I also suggest they reach out to Pam, just because of the depth of her knowledge. And I figure that gives anyone a good balance, okay? And then I also share, you know, where they can find information about the Finance Committee, just in terms of, you know, the report and the warrant and the website, that type of thing,
Miranda Jones: okay? Cherry Karlson: So that's where we are. I think a. As I said, I will reach out to this gentleman and see if he wants to move forward. I think we asked Jailyn to push the statement again, yeah, like the first of October, and just see. And you know, as you speak with people mention it. Yeah. Miranda Jones: Yeah. Question for you these meetings, are they typically in person or hybrid or a combination, or does it vary from meeting meeting to meeting Carol Martin: hybrid? Miranda Jones: Okay, great, because I just there is somebody, I think she's in Europe right now, based on her Instagram post, there is somebody that I might try and recruit, see if she can do it. Carol Martin: Yeah, so I do want to add that with the since the days that Cherry and I were there, right, I believe that the workload has reduced for a number of reasons. One is with the adoption of the Town manager act. You know, the development and the responsibility for developing the budget comes through to them versus they were more involved with the second. The second thing is that and the Tom manager is also responsible for the developing the capital plan, but with the addition of the capital and planning and improvement committee, yes, I had thought I had it backwards. You know, they're going to focus, hopefully around on capital, but they are also going to now write the blurbs that go with the annual capital
Cherry Karlson: to shared responsibility, Carol Martin: yeah, well, there's, there's some more work that we're taking, you know, I'm sure they're going to be very sad to not have to do. And finally, we're having a conversation at the Select Board level, and I'm saying, Oh, this, okay, someone's watching this. You know, for recruitment, we are looking at find ways to not reduce the quality, but to streamline the annual or the warrant, we think that's gotten a little might be a little more, bigger is better. We're hoping that we can because I think when you hand someone, as I've said, 130 page nonfiction book and they got to read in two weeks, I'm not sure that we're accomplishing our goal. So one of the things is, we've had conversation with the finance committee chairs, both the former and the current, about really streamlining, for example, the report, which is another big project that they take on. And so these are things that I think should add to make being on a finance committee more Miranda Jones: palatable, Carol Martin: palatable. Iir'm just gonna say the same thing, and that's part of the reason why I think it's important that our interested candidates talk with the current chair and the former chair, because it has changed so much since we right. And I mean, they haven't quite finalized that they're going to make no but they're working. We're working in that direction. So, you know, instead of doing a 20 page report, you guys are doing like an eight, I'm making it up. Yeah, that's half the work, isn't it? Miranda Jones: So the more we reduce the volume of of stuff at town meeting, the better whatever way it takes, right? Carol Martin: Yeah, Miranda is my partner in crime. Miranda Jones: We must maintain transparency. So now I am, I'm working on it might logistically on my end about how can I cut back on my end time? Carol Martin: So, like, what has established is to try to do some streamlining on that. Miranda Jones: So, yeah, no, I think we will. We will bring more people to it. Yes, with one one night. Other towns can get done even more warrant articles than we have and get it done in one night. Town of North Andover, they often have 3000 people show up, and they still get it done in one night. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, alright. Unknown: Well, that's that's where that stands, as we have in the past, as I get candidates, I'll just let you know that we have someone you know in the pipeline, and if this gentleman is interested in going forward, I'll get dates out so that we can find a time to interview Miranda Jones: right? Super, okay, do that Cherry Karlson: sixth on the agenda is leadership. I forgot to put this on our agenda in June, but I do want to make certain that we formally elect a chair to serve for the remainder of this fiscal year. So are you running? Carol Martin: I have zero interest in this chair. Totally. Why? Since I talked to you the other day, I picked up another committee or two. I'm going to move. I move. Miranda Jones: I think. Can I tell you I'm becoming a grandmother. Okay? I think abilities coming my way. Unknown: I think we actually have a very nice balance of workload. So I Yes, I would be willing to do it. Miranda Jones: That is wonderful. Carol Martin: I move when we I move that we nominate, I guess, oh, I nominate, that's the right phrase. I nominate Cerry Karlson as the chair for FY 26 of the Finance. Committee appointing board. Miranda Jones: I second that nomination. Unknown: Thank you guys are funny. Is there any other discussion on the topic? Hearing none. Carol Martin: None. Not a word. Cherry Karlson: We'll do a roll call vote. Carol, Carol Martin: yes. Miranda, yes, yes. Unknown: Cherry, yes. Thank you guys. I appreciate Miranda Jones: a major campaign. Cherry ran. It was, you know, this is the kind, this is a good that's the right way to do it. Next on here we have determine the next meeting date. I just think that's, it's premature right now, so I will reach out to you in one of those administrative emails when we have someone to interview, yep, Carol Martin: okay, I probably will be the challenge round on that. So can you give us three or four dates? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Thank you. Cherry Karlson: Any reports and concerns from you? Nothing going on? Okay, no, look at that. We did. It's at 346
Carol Martin: I move we adjourn at 346 Miranda Jones: motion to adjourn. Cherry Karlson: Okay, we there any other discussion? I hearing? None. We'll do a roll call. Vote. Miranda, yes. Carol Martin: Carol, oh yes, yes, Cherry Karlson: three zero to adjourn at 346 thanks for getting through this agenda, and I'll keep you posted on our candidate. All right, it's great to see you both. Thanks for.
Carol Martin: Oh, that's the next second. That's the second second page. Oh, yeah, on my just put it in. Cherry. Can I ask you to do that? Miranda Jones: No, I just fixed that. Well, it should be, it should be a CI, not a CI, right? Not a Z. Carol Martin: Oh, yeah, there's not enough letters there. Miranda Jones: Yeah, you're missing two
Cherry Karlson: funny my autocorrect wants to make it publishing, but I will work on that. So, yes, Carol Martin: I think that's fair. I suppose. What was happening with me, and I kept trying to put it back and then eventually auto correct won. Because why don't we just take Cherry Karlson: it? I'm just going to go with auto correct and make it publishing it accomplishes the same thing candidates, including publishing the recruitment statement. Yeah, okay, I didn't have anything else, Miranda, did? Miranda Jones: You know? Nope, not at all. I can make a motion to adopt as amended or approved a motion to approve as amended. Excuse me, Carol Martin: Second. Thank you, Carol,
Cherry Karlson: as amended. Any other comments? Okay, so we have a motion to approve as amended. We'll do a roll call vote. Carol, yes. Miranda, yep. Carry, yes, it's three to zero on the minutes. Do I have someone who would take minutes Miranda Jones: I am doing it right now? Sorry, I should have told you that. Cherry Karlson: No, that's okay. Thanks. Miranda, Miranda Jones: yeah, of course.
Cherry Karlson: Okay, and I'll send those in, since I just made the change to the copy that I have, so I'll send them in so that we're online. Miranda Jones: Thank you. T The Okay, great, Cherry Karlson: but yeah, so I'll take care of that. Okay, the annual report. So due by the end of the month, I drafted this sort of based on what we did last year. Did it a little bit chronologically. I can easily get it to one page if we take out the vice chair and the second secretary line, seeing as we don't have anybody, Miranda Jones: yeah, I wouldn't, yeah. So yeah, you need, okay, yeah, I would get rid of those. There's no need Cherry Karlson: with the ex officio. I'll get rid of that. Miranda Jones: Yep, great. Okay, Carol Martin: we need a capital C and chair on Select Board, seeing how we have initial caps on the Miranda Jones: Yeah, it's a title that's fine. Give it a capital C, yeah. It would, okay, yeah, I would, yeah. Cherry Karlson: That's good, no, especially because it says member capitalized, chair should be capitalized, yes, so, and that's our role on this board. So, yes, right, Carol Martin: okay, I will say there's I make a motion to approve, but I, one thought, with what I did with the Select Board, um, annual submission. It's from the chair, but you know, really, the committee does the whole work, so I've submitted it, Respectfully submitted on behalf of the board. And I don't know if you'd like if there. This is a small committee. It doesn't matter. But I just thought, this one respect this on behalf of the committee, right? That sounds Yep. And then Cherry Karlson: I was just, it just comes that as you know, it just comes that way in the template. So I have no issue with that, so I'll make that change, Carol Martin: right? That was the same with we said, but I thought, I mean, I've got five members more, all doing the work. So, all right, so I'm going to move that we approve the 2025, annual report submission as amended.
Miranda Jones: I will second discussion. Yep,
Cherry Karlson: any thing else I chose in the draft. I did not put in the names of the candidates that we interviewed. I just went with what the process was, okay. I just wanted to make certain that I called that out there Miranda Jones: in our meeting minutes with these people, exactly. Cherry Karlson: It's very easy to this is, yeah, just a report, simple report, agreed of her important work. Carol Martin: Jailyn will have her happy face on with us now. I know I got a big list yesterday who wasn't in. Cherry Karlson: Oh, I Jailyn knew that this is when we were meeting, so I know. Okay, so we have a motion and a second to amended any other discussion. No hearing, none. We'll take a vote, a roll call vote. Miranda, Miranda Jones: yes. Carol Yes. Cherry Karlson: Cherry, yes. Three to zero. Thank you guys, sure. Recruitment. Jailyn, you know, has done a couple of things for us. She got a blurb in the town newsletter that then linked through to the more complete statement, and she right after labor day of school was really getting going, she reposted the recruitment statement, and I just updated the dates at the bottom because it was a little stale after our January meeting, but I didn't make any changes To the body of it. And we do have one gentleman who is doing research with the chair and the former vice chair, and that was active last week, so I'll reach out to him following this meeting and see if he has done enough homework that if he's interested in continuing. But we do have two open seats right now. There is a piece in the packet, but it just shows that, you know, with the resignation, we now have one seat expiring in 27 and one in 28. Pam Roman has been, you know, very helpful, and is still there. But, you know, pending any other information, we do still have one seat. We have two seats to fill right now, and one active candidate. And so I would just say, if you've got other ideas, Carol, I know we had talked before about whether or not we wanted to put anything in the in the town newspaper that gets mailed to everybody, you know, I have Carol knows, I've touched base, you know, individually with other people on the Select Board, just to say that we're looking. I know the Chair of the Finance Committee is, you know, actively looking, Miranda Jones: I'm sorry. Besides, Pam, who else do Unknown: we have the we had the resignation from Michael Hoyle. Michael Hoyle, thank you. I was going to say the gentleman that that was chair, right? So, and he started a new job and needed to resign immediately. Miranda Jones: So that was, yeah, but, but he's not even listed on here. Unknown: No, once they once they resign. the way the software works, Miranda, it comes off, which, okay, fortunately, it doesn't list the open seat. But you can tell by the expiry dates that it would have been 2027, yeah, okay, a two year position and a three year position.
Carol Martin: And we are grateful Tom, I'm sorry, Miranda Jones: sorry we have, currently have two seats we need to fill. Yes, and Pam is just hanging on, hanging on until we find her replacement. Okay, we Carol Martin: are most grateful to her for that, because being an invaluable resource for the new chair who is only in a second year of the finance committee, so the institutional knowledge is just invaluable. Cherry Karlson: And when I do have candidates, I do and I handle it all in one email so they all know. But I do have them reach out to the Chair of the Finance Committee, but I also suggest they reach out to Pam, just because of the depth of her knowledge. And I figure that gives anyone a good balance, okay? And then I also share, you know, where they can find information about the Finance Committee, just in terms of, you know, the report and the warrant and the website, that type of thing,
Miranda Jones: okay? Cherry Karlson: So that's where we are. I think a. As I said, I will reach out to this gentleman and see if he wants to move forward. I think we asked Jailyn to push the statement again, yeah, like the first of October, and just see. And you know, as you speak with people mention it. Yeah. Miranda Jones: Yeah. Question for you these meetings, are they typically in person or hybrid or a combination, or does it vary from meeting meeting to meeting Carol Martin: hybrid? Miranda Jones: Okay, great, because I just there is somebody, I think she's in Europe right now, based on her Instagram post, there is somebody that I might try and recruit, see if she can do it. Carol Martin: Yeah, so I do want to add that with the since the days that Cherry and I were there, right, I believe that the workload has reduced for a number of reasons. One is with the adoption of the Town manager act. You know, the development and the responsibility for developing the budget comes through to them versus they were more involved with the second. The second thing is that and the Tom manager is also responsible for the developing the capital plan, but with the addition of the capital and planning and improvement committee, yes, I had thought I had it backwards. You know, they're going to focus, hopefully around on capital, but they are also going to now write the blurbs that go with the annual capital
Cherry Karlson: to shared responsibility, Carol Martin: yeah, well, there's, there's some more work that we're taking, you know, I'm sure they're going to be very sad to not have to do. And finally, we're having a conversation at the Select Board level, and I'm saying, Oh, this, okay, someone's watching this. You know, for recruitment, we are looking at find ways to not reduce the quality, but to streamline the annual or the warrant, we think that's gotten a little might be a little more, bigger is better. We're hoping that we can because I think when you hand someone, as I've said, 130 page nonfiction book and they got to read in two weeks, I'm not sure that we're accomplishing our goal. So one of the things is, we've had conversation with the finance committee chairs, both the former and the current, about really streamlining, for example, the report, which is another big project that they take on. And so these are things that I think should add to make being on a finance committee more Miranda Jones: palatable, Carol Martin: palatable. Iir'm just gonna say the same thing, and that's part of the reason why I think it's important that our interested candidates talk with the current chair and the former chair, because it has changed so much since we right. And I mean, they haven't quite finalized that they're going to make no but they're working. We're working in that direction. So, you know, instead of doing a 20 page report, you guys are doing like an eight, I'm making it up. Yeah, that's half the work, isn't it? Miranda Jones: So the more we reduce the volume of of stuff at town meeting, the better whatever way it takes, right? Carol Martin: Yeah, Miranda is my partner in crime. Miranda Jones: We must maintain transparency. So now I am, I'm working on it might logistically on my end about how can I cut back on my end time? Carol Martin: So, like, what has established is to try to do some streamlining on that. Miranda Jones: So, yeah, no, I think we will. We will bring more people to it. Yes, with one one night. Other towns can get done even more warrant articles than we have and get it done in one night. Town of North Andover, they often have 3000 people show up, and they still get it done in one night. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, alright. Unknown: Well, that's that's where that stands, as we have in the past, as I get candidates, I'll just let you know that we have someone you know in the pipeline, and if this gentleman is interested in going forward, I'll get dates out so that we can find a time to interview Miranda Jones: right? Super, okay, do that Cherry Karlson: sixth on the agenda is leadership. I forgot to put this on our agenda in June, but I do want to make certain that we formally elect a chair to serve for the remainder of this fiscal year. So are you running? Carol Martin: I have zero interest in this chair. Totally. Why? Since I talked to you the other day, I picked up another committee or two. I'm going to move. I move. Miranda Jones: I think. Can I tell you I'm becoming a grandmother. Okay? I think abilities coming my way. Unknown: I think we actually have a very nice balance of workload. So I Yes, I would be willing to do it. Miranda Jones: That is wonderful. Carol Martin: I move when we I move that we nominate, I guess, oh, I nominate, that's the right phrase. I nominate Cerry Karlson as the chair for FY 26 of the Finance. Committee appointing board. Miranda Jones: I second that nomination. Unknown: Thank you guys are funny. Is there any other discussion on the topic? Hearing none. Carol Martin: None. Not a word. Cherry Karlson: We'll do a roll call vote. Carol, Carol Martin: yes. Miranda, yes, yes. Unknown: Cherry, yes. Thank you guys. I appreciate Miranda Jones: a major campaign. Cherry ran. It was, you know, this is the kind, this is a good that's the right way to do it. Next on here we have determine the next meeting date. I just think that's, it's premature right now, so I will reach out to you in one of those administrative emails when we have someone to interview, yep, Carol Martin: okay, I probably will be the challenge round on that. So can you give us three or four dates? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Thank you. Cherry Karlson: Any reports and concerns from you? Nothing going on? Okay, no, look at that. We did. It's at 346
Carol Martin: I move we adjourn at 346 Miranda Jones: motion to adjourn. Cherry Karlson: Okay, we there any other discussion? I hearing? None. We'll do a roll call. Vote. Miranda, yes. Carol Martin: Carol, oh yes, yes, Cherry Karlson: three zero to adjourn at 346 thanks for getting through this agenda, and I'll keep you posted on our candidate. All right, it's great to see you both. Thanks for.
Historical Commission
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: We're
call to order. We don't have a
clock, 108 in
pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in person and via remote means, in accordance with the applicable law, this meeting may be recorded which will be made available to the public on WayCAM as soon after the meeting as is practical when required by law or allowed by the chair. The persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so by in person attendance or by assessing a meeting remotely, as noted above, we request public comment to be limited to two minutes per person. Note items may not be discussed in order, listed as all topics are subject to deliberation and vote. So thank you all for coming and Lewis, Richard Conard: do we need to introduce ourselves? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Because I was just going to say we want to start. And Anne, I'm going to start with you, since you're remote Ann Gordon: Ann Gordon Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and Amanda, Amanda Ciaccio: Amanda Ciaccio, Richard Conard: Rick Conard, Tanya Largy: Tanya Largy, Sherry Anne Bryant: Sherry Ann Bryant, Bradford Carver: Brad Carver Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and Kay Gardner-Westcott, thank you very much for all coming together on such a nice day. We're going to start with public comment. Dave, do you have anything that you want to say? Doug, I mean, I'm sorry.
Okay, so let's review the minutes and take a look. Yes, how do I tell that somebody from outside wants to make a comment? Jailyn Bratica: They would raise their hand, but no one is attended. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, good. Thank you. Jailyn Bratica: Possible to I can see Katherine Gardner-Wescott: maybe Amanda, if you move to this end of the table. Jailyn Bratica: I'm sorry our TV was broken, so we've yet to install the new one. Sorry. Unknown: Hasn't bothered them, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I'm sorry, Unknown: so I can turn it back Jailyn Bratica: here, maybe
Unknown: it doesn't bother them.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that there was, is there one typo? I think Unknown: there are a couple. I did hear from Rick who had a few corrections to make. I can tell you what those are. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that would be a good idea. Unknown: Okay, the first one is on page two, under guests Abigail Shute and Mike Faia the Stones Bridge section, and I had misremembered or misheard what Rick said he had photos of the hurricane of 55 not 38 so it now reads, has some black and white photos of the hurricane of 55 which damaged the bridge and caused it to be closed. First, and then another change was just a typo in the on the following page at the near, near the bottom, WHC representative for CPC, there was a letter for in the word preservation didn't belong there, and the another one from Rick under Rail Rest posts on the following page, under the railroad section in the first sentence, to add the word a before railroad museum so it reads, found out that a railroad museum in New Hampshire. And I think that's all I got from Rick
see the archeology with that sound of Bill starlo. But he mentioned something about archeology you might see that you can. Didn't hear that to support this room, I'm sorry the camera name is great like that. Is it a voice? It's this,
Seattle. What I wanted to mention that we've been asked to put that notes up at the end of our minutes that we have materials which are shown at the meeting, and Mike and Abby brought the blueprints or maps for us.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That was someone. No, it was Richard Conard: Brian. Brian. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Brian from housing, Unknown: yes, okay, and so it needs to be noted that they brought those for us to accept and store, right? Ann Gordon: You know, this is the difficult thing about participating remotely because I didn't see them. I didn't Yeah, yeah, well, so I'm happy to add that if you tell me what to say
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the if you look at the Select Board meeting minutes, you'll see they give a long list of documents that had been sent to the members and perhaps discussed, but they never talk about what the documents were or so them. They just list them, and then I assume that you would have to go to the board to find out exactly what those documents were. But in the when, when I took the test again for the members, for being a member, being sworn in, in that it talks about minutes in open meeting laws we had to do, and it talks about minutes and saying that they should be listed at the bottom of the minutes. So that is something that I thought we should start doing. And I, I guess I informed Sherry Ann, but I hadn't gotten around to informing you. And I apologize, but if I think you were sworn in again this year too, so you, you will have to take the Open Meeting tutorial, and it'll tell you in that Unknown: like she wanted, would like to know about Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the word, right? So he brought the plan PLA and plan for 130 is it? 132 Commonwealth, 131 3130 Commonwealth Avenue, I mean Road in in Wayland, which shows the house and the property and the blueprints were for. Was it for the Cochituate school? Richard Conard: No, yeah. Cochituate schools, alterations, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? So relational plans, changes to Cochituate school blueprints. Ann Gordon: Now, did he bring those Cochituate school blueprints because it was germane to something we talked about in the meeting? Or did he bring them Katherine Gardner-Wescott: to give them to you. He just brought them to the meeting to give to the Historical Commission, right? So is that but, but we did look at them. Unknown: We did look at them at the end of the meeting, Ann Gordon: in the meet, during the meeting, Unknown: no, at the end of the meeting, he thought, Ann Gordon: after the meeting. I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: mean, yeah, so we're storing Yes? He just so this is Unknown: to safeguard them. Ann Gordon: Yeah, so I guess I need to find out what the details are about how to do this, because that doesn't seem to me a document that was discussed in the meeting. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It wasn't discussed in the meeting. He just brought them to the meeting to ask us to store the in our office, in our math files. Ann Gordon: Well, I could certainly add that to the minutes.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And I think I sent you something about changes also. Ann Gordon: Oh, I didn't it was that recent Katherine Gardner-Wescott: here last night. Mike, did you have a comment about this? Ann Gordon: I'm sorry I didn't check my email today. Okay, so if you sent it in the last few hours, I haven't seen it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well last night, but the basically was a typo that you've already mentioned, and also when there was a article about my writing up a bill to send a Cultural Council, and the response from Rick was not to do it. And. And I wrote in my email to you that probably from your vantage point, you see him shake his head no and say, leave it alone. And shake his hand say, Don't do it. Ann Gordon: So, okay. Well, so is that all is, is that in your email for me to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, I think if you just put in the minutes that Rick declined.
Ann Gordon: Okay, so let's follow up. Let's see where that is in the minutes. If you wouldn't mind showing me what you mean, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't have the minutes. That's everything that I don't have a pleasure right now anyway. Ann Gordon: So does anybody have a copy of the minutes? Yeah, wait a minute. Unknown: Comment on something else, but you're the note about the display, the display in the entryway, yes, the figure 1985 come up for Rita Anderson's doing that because I believe she did that before in 1985 it Richard Conard: said 40 years, 40 years. Unknown: Well, I said about 40 years. But I didn't do the math quickly enough, because she actually did it after we started the Wayland archeology group. I can't remember the exact year, but it would have been in the late 70s instead of 1985 Ann Gordon: Well, I don't have the the date 1985 anywhere in the minutes. So it says 40 years ago. It says that the village was created by Rita Anderson about 40 years ago. Unknown: Yeah, that's what it says. That's what you probably said, Tanya. But you were just you were being very loose with your language, probably, and I'm having a lot of trouble hearing in this room. I can't really hear what people are Ann Gordon: saying. So Tanya, is it? Is it accurate to say that it's been there for about 40 years? Unknown: It's about 40 years, but it might have been what is 40 years? It's really longer, and it's been since the late 70s, years to say more than 40 years ago, probably 45 years ago. Ann Gordon: Now, how about if I say it's been there for more than 40 years? Unknown: I'm sorry I didn't make that it's actually been there for, yeah, more than probably the late 70s. Bradford Carver: So, Tanya, if it says it's been there for more than 40 years, is that? Is that okay? That's what I thought would be. Okay. Okay, so more than 40 years? Okay,
Ann Gordon: and then, Kay, you were, can we get back to your Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I'm trying to find the email that I sent you, because I think there was more than that also, okay. Ann Gordon: I'm sorry I didn't check my email today. I'm finding it. There's typo. Rick declined the submitting of a bill for his work and funding for the rap Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that was shortly after that. So what you're Ann Gordon: doing? I should. I should. Unknown: Or Janice, I mean,
Richard Conard: okay, that's what I was doing. Okay,
Ann Gordon: let's see if we can find that in the minutes, so that I'd get this right
Unknown: end of rail trail and railroad Yes, last paragraph. Ann Gordon: Last paragraph. Unknown: That's what we're referring to.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, thank you. And who declined and he declined.
Ann Gordon: I'm sorry, I'm not finding it. Can you say that again? Where is it? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: If you look under Rail Trail and rail road? Yes. Second paragraph. R Connor gave Oh, and
Ann Gordon: then do you want me to add after it says and they voted to approve? What do you want me to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: just say our Connor declined. The submission Unknown: at the end of this I got it,
Ann Gordon: declined, the reimbursement,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the submission of the invoice for invoice, thank you. That's what I was looking for. Ann Gordon: Okay?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And then I see, did you see under guest Abigail shoot in my car that you misspelled my name? Ann Gordon: There's an Yes, I'm sorry about that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And then on the RFP for the vital conservation of vital records by the town clerk's office, there was a sentence that says Kay Gardner Westcott has spoken with the town clerk Judy about her concerns for referring back to me. And actually, it was not my concerns. It was the historic commission concerns that were discussed at the previous meeting, or at that meeting on that day, actually. So I will clarify that it was not my concerns, it was the board's con, the commissioner's concerns. Unknown: Okay,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: got it Okay. Those are my comments.
Thank you, Rick. I
anything else do we have a motion? Bradford Carver: Move to accept the Meet the minutes. Second motion. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Any other discussion? All right, let's vote by voice in Yes, yes, absolutely. Amanda accepts the I'll say your name. Amanda, yes. Brad, yes. Cherianne, yes. Tanya, yes. Rick, yes. And K Yes, thank you. Unknown: Okay, what's next? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The Annual Report, and you all got a copy of what was sent out, and we have any comments?
Unknown: I make a motion, no comment.
Lots of comments. I had a question under Community Preservation Committee funding a display case for the towns, Boston hosting I thought it was still Wayland historical societies, Boston post cane, because the historical Bradford House Museum owns the cane. Ann Gordon: I see, okay, Unknown: so it should not be the word town, in my opinion, there as the owner of the cane, we are loaning the Wayland Historical Society and museum, and the museum is loaning the cane to the town for display,
Ann Gordon: right for
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and they like to be referred to as Wayland museum for society, right?
Ann Gordon: Okay, Unknown: that sentence about the display case for the town's Boston first Ann Gordon: pain got it. Unknown: And then I wondered if somewhere we should have that we do continue to monitor the preservation restriction at 105 playing road that I didn't see it in what you had written for the annual report. So my suggestion would be that we add that, that we that's we do, that we're supposed to do that every year. So by the way, aren't we supposed to follow up on the church, on the school house, too?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: You mean on the original High School, on those? I don't know if that's a deed restriction, when plain road is a deed restriction, which requires us to go all we do have. I don't think that was a deed restriction.
I made my comments to you on my email to. You, if you pull up your document, okay? And in the email, Richard Conard: I just had a couple comments under stones bridge that was really a facilities department project, and we worked with them and supporting the project, but they're the ones that did the work. I just want to make sure that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: we did the applications to the CPC for the payments and so forth. That's why we're involved in monitoring what was going on. And I believe that started in 2012 and I thought it would be interesting to note that it started in 2012 and it's finally finished in 2025 or 24 except for the landscaping, as noted
Unknown: Rick and Tanya they went to who are probably saw this through the entire Katherine Gardner-Wescott: arc of the well, it took section two completion, and it took three rounds of CPC funding to actually pay for it get it done.
Unknown: Okay, so if
Richard Conard: we're talking about a suggested illustrations, stones bridge, go on a cover of the town report, considering the amount of a nice picture of the completed bridge, right? And whether we include that in our section or try to advocate that it got on a cover of the Tom, well, I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: think that we could, you're talking about the images that I sent out, right? Maybe we could hold that discussion until we finish with the actual report, because we all know people like to look at images when they're flipping through the town report. That's what catches their eye to stop and read what the report says. Ann Gordon: So can you walk me through your comments? You talk, we're still on the stones bridge paragraph, I'm seeing your comments saying native plantings and flower boxes is the goal for future enhancements. It was already decided that facilities wanted that. Is that a change you want me to make? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Or are you just Yes, it is because I was reporting that that was their goal. They had already decided that's what they were going to do. We discussed the fact that, yes, the roots wouldn't get into the brickwork or stonework, and we all agreed with that. Ann Gordon: All right, so where it says are being considered, you're asking me to change that to something like will be implemented, or, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: yes, because it wasn't done in that year. So that's a goal or something in the future that they're planning on doing. Okay, I was just trying to make the distinction. Ann Gordon: There. Got it. Okay, all right, so I'm just going through your comments again, Kay, I'm sorry I didn't I didn't see this earlier. In under house plaques, a new vendor was selected, font and design approved. Was that this year Bradford Carver: I was going to say, is that this year, I think it was the previous year? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, okay, thank you. And disregard that. Okay. I was wondering, do we have a number of how many plaques we did this past year, or replacement? Bradford Carver: Maybe two. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So maybe we don't need to include that. I was just questioning whether or not we wanted to include that.
Unknown: I think she's
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: still looking at the comments and then, Ann Gordon: yeah, I am so under archeology, you are asking to add information that says discussion for the need of a new bylaw that prohibits The use of metal detectors or unauthorized digging on public land with the police chief. I'm sorry. Unknown: Get that the bylaw that you talked about should be already against the law. Don't have it so as far as I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: know, no what I'm asking is you. Discussed that with the police, Unknown: yes. So, Tanya, I thought it was already against the law. Tanya, what I thought it was already? Tanya, she's talking. I thought it was already against the law to use. I to use metal detectors on, on, oh, yes, it is okay. It is. So then, why do we why? Why are we making it a bylaw? I don't understand, not just monitors, but anybody who goes into public land for some purpose of finding things. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, the question Tanya is, is that already law, or didn't someone check by Unknown: law? It's a bylaw that the police chief suggested we should have. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay? So the police chief suggested it to you Unknown: did, okay, but, but it is already a law that they cannot use. It. Was he aware of the law? Yeah, well, he might be aware of the law, but I don't know if the public is so we could, we could advertise it, but what's the goal here? Did you want signage? I'm just I think signage would be good. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The question, though, is Ann Gordon: no, that's this is this has to be what we did last year. This is our report about what happened last year at our all of our meetings. So I think Kay is suggesting that we should include in the annual report that you had a conversation with the police chief about this issue. Unknown: What did you discuss with the police chief exactly because I'm I'm confused, because the police chief should know that, that it's a law, so I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well that that's it, regardless, that the point was that she brought it up at the meeting that the police chief suggested that a bylaw against metal detectors be passed. Unknown: But, but wait, why would he say that if it's all the law that doesn't make sense, though, see, I don't know why the Basic Law is not well known, but so he suggested we needed a by law to make it illegal. That's what he told me, even Ann Gordon: though, can I suggest that? Excuse me? Unknown: Do acceptance, judgment, Ann Gordon: friends, can I suggest we we drop this for the annual report? It was not something we accomplished. It sounds like it was a conversation. And I don't think it belongs back to us. That's I don't think it belongs in our annual report. Unknown: Well, it would have to be by town meeting, I think, for Well, I Bradford Carver: think, I think what Anne is saying is, for purposes of the annual report, it was a discussion. It wasn't really something that was, was an in depth discussion that needs to go in in the annual report. Because what we're talking about now is what goes in the annual report, I can is saying, I agree with her. Let's just leave it out, because it's not really pertinent Unknown: to hear what you're saying. Well, also, yeah, it should be documented. I think if, if we're gonna, like you said, it needs to be an accomplishment of Katherine Gardner-Wescott: some All right, I agree with everyone. But the only reason I and let me just explain why I brought it up. Because if it was something we were going to follow up with, it needs to be shown that it was discussed. And the problem was we were made aware of the problem in that year, and we started talking about it. I have no problem with dropping it. I'm just saying that's why I thought it should be in in the annual report, because it was brought to our attention by Tanya, and there was some discussion about it then, as there is discussion about it now and but I'm happy to let it go. Bradford Carver: What I would recommend is we added to one of our future meetings as an agenda item, yeah, and then it's listed as an agenda item, we'll have a follow up discussion about it at that time. Unknown: It's not a done deal, yeah, right, yeah. So I would suggest we'll follow up with the police chief about it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, moving on.
Ann Gordon: All right, moving on. Unknown: I wanted to know when David retired from the arc biology lab, was that during the last year? Well, it wasn't an official retirement. I know it was him. Recognize it was actually over a year ago. It was actually 2020. 2024 may ish of 2024 okay? Because we've never done a recognition. No, it is, I know Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, we've never recognized individuals Unknown: before. But now we apparently are, well, we're Katherine Gardner-Wescott: changing power. Policy, which is something else that we think need to discuss, because we've always been a team before that supported each other, work together, and Anne recorded to me on the very first time she wrote the annual report for me for this board, that at least I had suggested that we do not use individual names, that we are a team, that we work together, we discuss things, and we come together for a decision. And therefore names are not mentioned. And this is a big change by listing people and saying what activities they they personally worked on. Okay? Unknown: Also, though the archeology lab is a little bit different than the Historical Richard Conard: Commission. Unknown: Well, that's part of it, yeah, but it's also it's kind of the volunteers in the lab are not necessarily on the permission, yeah, if we right, but, but my point was, if we were, if we were recognizing one person who married no Margaret and Margaret, oh, why Margaret leaving
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: personal comment about her, then saying, what a good job. Oh, I see. Unknown: We either don't we just, I'm thankful for senior tax write off participants I see, or now following we want to be sure we don't exclude people who I see. And David was, recognition is my point. Okay, Ann Gordon: so Kay, are you? Would you prefer that I take all the individual names out of this report and make it more generic as a as a commission accomplishment? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That's what you said to me the very first annual report that you wrote, and you have adhered to that up to this year, that everything is a team effort, and we are all working together for these goals, but this year, we changed the format. Ann Gordon: I apologize I wasn't paying strict attention. Apparently I didn't. I didn't quite realize that, so I'm happy to go through and take all the names out so that nobody gets individual mention.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: How do other people feel about it? I mean, I don't want to be making the only decision even I Unknown: think it's good. I think it's hard to be consistent. I mean, I think we should recognize David, not in the annual report, but separately,
Bradford Carver: I agree being generic, not specific, names make sense, okay? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Rick or Tanya. Do you have a comment on that I didn't hear right? Okay, then I guess we will ask you to rewrite it so that it's a team effort that we've all worked together on these projects, either by support or actual work.
Ann Gordon: Okie doke, I can do that.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Any other comments there?
Ann Gordon: I'm just looking at the rest of your comments. Kay,
you asked about the signal at the depot was it completed and placed on the depot it was in our 24 annual report as having been very near completion at the end of that fiscal year, so We have already included it in last year's report. Unknown: So Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but it wasn't up and working like it was this fiscal year. But the fiscal year we're talking about,
Ann Gordon: I think I can't tell you the exact date, but it was in last year's report. We can repeat it if you think that is what you want. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, Rick is thinking. He's trying to figure out whether Richard Conard: I think it was substantially completed last year. So okay, we did this year was the illumination was done,
but I wouldn't include it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Rick is saying if he doesn't feel that it should be included, even though more work was done on it this year by adding the illumination to it. So we'll let that go. It was just a question. Ann Gordon: Okay, and then I think you had one more comment
on the 2/50 anniversary planning. I had a sentence that says, WHC members serve on and support the Wayland road 250 organizing group. Your comment is what I guess you're asking. Why that's plural members, WHC members. You say you've never seen another WHC member at any of the meetings, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So we have a representative on the 250 would be sufficient that were represented on the 2/50 committee? Ann Gordon: Well, I've been doing all the publicity for all the events, so I'm not on the group, because I told Mary I would help her with publicity, but I didn't want to be on the committee, so I feel like I am contributing, but if you would rather keep it official, then you're right. You're the only one on the committee. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I'm happy to say that, you know, there's a reference. There are people working with the committee and on the committee, if you like, that's happy with that. Ann Gordon: Well, that's why I said serve on and support, because some of us, you serve on the committee, some of us support the work in other ways. If you feel like it's a stretch, I'm happy to change Katherine Gardner-Wescott: it. I'm happy to include everybody that's supporting as well. And that's it. Richard Conard: Tanya had a comment about the word the wording archeological demonstrations Unknown: exhibits would be better. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Did you hear that? Anne, Ann Gordon: well, where are we?
Richard Conard: Anniversary, the next to last line, instead of archeological demonstrations, okay, suggesting archeological exhibits, Unknown: okay to do anything, but we'll have our cases with the artifacts in Ann Gordon: it, and that's okay. That's great. Thank you, man, thank you. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Another very good job. I think she deserved the thank you again. Ann Gordon: I will send another draft to everyone after I make these changes. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Now, has everybody seen the images? Those are just some image images. We can choose other images to include in the report, and that's a separate email and that you may not have seen yet, but it should have come. I'm opening it now, okay.
Ann Gordon: I mean, also we don't know what Jailyn will use when she puts a report together, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or I Ann Gordon: don't know who puts it together, but we can submit what we want, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And those are just images that I had available to me last night. If other people have other images that they've taken during the year that they would like to to send to Ian and to all of us to see what one of them was. The for those of you that didn't see it, the woodwork, the workings of supporting the arch while they worked on it, so it shows all the wood. Call there Sharon, if you want to come around here and see this, so that both Amanda and and you can see it together. One of them is a completed arch, so you can see underneath the bridge, which a lot of people don't get to see. We're just one is of the 55 flood that caused the bridge to be the land on the other side to be removed. And we also have,
this is the 55 one, where you can see the flood waters going over the bridge. You can also see it connected to the Framingham side and and for cemetery cleanups, all I had were pictures of clean cemetery stones. That's all I had last night. And then, because we're supporting the 2/50 we could put a small 2/50 emblem next to that, or, you know, in that paragraph. Or whatever. But again, I Oh, I think there's one of Josh doing repair work in the cemetery, actually, right? And the others, the other two, were cleaner stones. But you may have photographs of activities that happen that are better. Bradford Carver: I thought the photographs were great. I i guess the 250th anniversary, or symbol, I thought, was probably the most appropriate, just because it's a 250th Yeah, I thought. I thought that the pictures were fabulous, but I thought, given it's a 250s I thought that probably made the most sense. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, it doesn't. We can have more than one picture. Oh, then put them all in. I
Bradford Carver: thought it was just a cover. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: No, okay, we can put in pictures. They may take some out, but we can put them in to the to our submission. Unknown: Maybe, can you indicate, like the your your Katherine Gardner-Wescott: preference? Do you have, do people have licenses, if the 250 is a Unknown: preference, for instance, and then right, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: if people feel that, because sand can always say we this is the order of our preference on the photographs. If we don't have room, we would like, really, like A, B or C to be included, Tower, Hill, signal Unknown: cabin should be in there. That's this Katherine Gardner-Wescott: year's. That's this year, not last year's. I know we're talking Unknown: fiscal year, right, right. Richard Conard: So it was completed before June 30 of this year. Oh, it was last Katherine Gardner-Wescott: fiscal year. Oh, well, I can send you pictures on that too, because we have, I have those pictures. So, yes, absolutely, because that's a wonderful thing. Oops. But I can do that later. Unknown: And even the restoration of the Tower Hill sign next to route 20 that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: was rebuilt, yes, and that's your photograph Unknown: that went in the newspaper, that was done even before the signal cabinet sometime during the year. Richard Conard: Oh, it wasn't our money when it was the insurance company of the vehicle. Unknown: No, it wasn't our money, but it was, I don't need to add her view, historical, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: wasn't it? Because you spoke up and asked Unknown: your efforts. Ann Gordon: So let me revisit something. Rick, you just said, Are you saying the Tower Hill signal cabinet was completed before the end of this fiscal year that we're reporting on? Richard Conard: Yeah, it was completed just before the end of June. It was here. So, oh, so for last fiscal year? Oh, actually, it was an accomplishment. Has done last, last school year. It's great. Ann Gordon: Oh, well, then I think we definitely need a photo of it, and I need to change the write up, because it says, what, what I I didn't think it had been completed before the end of the fiscal year. So I said that the work on the installation continued. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, I agree with you, and I thought it wasn't done till after the fiscal year. So I totally missed that myself. I
Ann Gordon: uh, so I should change it to say the installation on the cabinet was completed. Yes, okay.
Richard Conard: With the grant from the Cultural Council, yeah, Ann Gordon: yeah, that's already it's in the in the first sentence, Unknown: there are
Ann Gordon: oh, okay, so I think I know what to do, and I will send everybody a new draft once I make these changes.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, I just sent everybody a photograph of the Tower Hill wrap that was completed. So have you seen it that's completed? Yes, cool. Oh, my God, it's awesome. Isn't that awesome? I love. But cannot, terrific, Unknown: nicely done
picture,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: very cool that tells what year the mail was put in. Me. So thank you again, Ian for all that hard work and putting it while she's on vacation too, everybody it's supposed to be spending free time relaxing and enjoying herself. Okay, what's next? Unknown: Wow, I mean, and remember what it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: looks like after two scrubbings by Rick, that's what it looks like Unknown: scraping that whole
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: thing. Yes, I will just Yeah,
can we have a motion to accept the rewritten Annual Report without having to meet again? Unknown: So I moved second
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the annual report we're voting on whether not we want to accept the rewritten annual report when Ian finishes, so that we don't have to meet again because it's due at the end of this month, and that means another meeting this month, which I think we would all like to avoid. Looking for a vote, yeah, not yet. I'm asking for any discussion at this point. Unknown: Oh, I thought somebody said, so low. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: He said, So moved. It's been seconded now discussion by Robert's Rules of Order, and then I can have a vote. No discussion, all right, and we're going to have a vote. We're going to start with Anne Unknown: Yes. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Amanda Brad, yes. Sherry, Ann, yes. Tanya, oh, they can't hear you. Nod your head. You have to say yes. Thank you for Rick, yes. And Kay, yes. Unknown: Thank you. This. Go to the paper. What did this? Go to the paper? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It was sent to the paper, and they did not put Unknown: it in what you've got both you're friends with Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what's I know, and I sent them several different shots. So yes, let's see we're open. So I think what we'll do is, if people don't mind, we'll take Sherman bridge activity and move that forward in our meeting. And would you like to come sit closer and participate Doug? And Doug, I owe you an apology. I stated that I had sent a letter to several boards. As it turns out, that was for stone bridge, not German bridge. So I'm sorry for the misrepresentation. Sorry, Doug, do you want to move it? Yeah, you need to be around where people can see you need to move or no, he could sit right down here next to Brad.
Unknown: Uh, Sean I just talked to, the situation is necessarily service to read 20 year old words. So every 10 years or so, this German spreadsheet topic seems to pop up. And first I heard of it was the August 4 selections meeting where they discussed a cooperation agreement with sun dairy. July 15 was the DEP W meeting, where they gave some discussion to about 10 minutes. And I think the situation is basically that the detection has been found to be acceptable by the state.
Here file the public records request today, got the engineering reports of another engineering but I think what I was able to discern from the July 15 discussion of the DEP w is that the proposal and there actually may be a public forum on this October 1 and Sudbury for residents of both towns, but I think the issues are with the decking of the bridge itself and not the under structure. That the proposal will be to replace the decking at a total cost, about $1.6 million which would be split accordingly between the two pounds. I mean, I don't know if you want. Flooring gun in your house, but it's 100 foot long bridge that's one feet wide, so that's 2000 square feet. So do the math there, and on the cost, they mentioned that the July 15 meeting was that mentioned that it might be done using material called glulam. And glulam, I think, is a m and a wood composite. Tom Holder said something interesting that blue lamb is classed as an asphalt derivative. Sorry, say that again, blue lamb is classed as an asphalt derivative. I saw an email with Tom on Monday asking, why is it an asphalt derivative? I mean, I think what it was probably being, the stuff you see is, you know, engineered beams and stuff and glued together. And it's the blue asphalt, or, really, Tom asphalt, or whatever. And I think if, in fact, it's glue lamb, it looks like wood, it will hold up longer. That actually may be a reasonable option. I, for one, certainly would hate to see the historic wooden nature of the bridge pampered with, you know, we love our bridge. We love the six wooden events. Both an architect and Cliff Lewis himself told me that, you know, the under structures is very, very solid. It's also coated with creosote, which is going to prevent, you know, deterioration. I'm not sure you could coated with creosote over sun today. I think the current bridge was built around 1990 you know, been talking to folks in the neighborhood was going to about 50 people on the topic, you know, the old you know, you've heard it from the mechanics, from your surgeon, that, as long as the patient's open, is there anything else you should be doing? And I think this is an opportunity to look talk about, you know, maybe doing more for the passive recreation that happens around the bridge. I mean, it is a major place for numerous kayaks and the occasional bass boat to the launch. It's a great place for bird watching. You have basically two square miles of the central meadows and the National Wildlife Refuge visible from the bridge. It's a very frequently used road for bicyclists, especially with the new bike paths opening up in Sudbury, because it's the only way to cross the river that's not on a numbered state or federal highway for about eight miles in either direction, and it's great place for folks in the neighborhood and others to take a walk. So, you know, one of the things that's being discussed is, you know, would this be a good time to add a second pedestrian walkway on the south side of the bridge? Kind of common compliment the one already on the west side of the bridge. And an architect in the neighborhood hasn't even suggested, well, that would be great or be even greater. And he thinks it would be relatively easy to cancel you for this is to pump it out, you know, five or six feet further in the middle, and have some sort of picnic table or place for the community. Did you mention fishing? Fishing? Yeah, so I forgot to mention fishing. I mean, one of those heart warming things is when, you know, when I ride my bike down there on a Saturday, or even, you know, Wednesday after school, and there are a couple 10 year olds fishing out there. So same, bigger people than that doesn't warm my heart quite as much. But you're right. It's a great place to fish. And the other topic that brings up, of course, is that, yeah, it's a given all that passive recreation use, and given just the nature of Sherman's Bridge Road, it happens to be the hilliest Road in town, along with Woodbridge on an elevation change per mile basis. Should we do something about following the traffic through there? And you know, I know that Sudbury, as Lincoln Road, which joins the bridge, goes rather, we are hill. They have a 20 mile an hour speed limit there. I think you probably do a lot with a 20 or 15 mile an hour speed limit. I think you could do a lot with painting, you know, bringing bike lanes and making it clear the car should be going very slowly, and then, you know, deferring to pedestrians and cyclists through the stretch from the bridge right up to number 61 Sherman's bridge river so and the other thing that we've talked about for a long time is basically the town and or the National Wildlife Refuge owns that stretch from number one Sherman's Bridge Road down the bridge, where the existing walkway is on the west side of the bridge and should be there. A, either a formal or, shall we call it a, don't ask, don't tell footpath there for all to use. So, yeah, that's my understanding of the situation. And I think, I think the historic nature of the bridge certainly speaks for itself. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But so are you advocating for a wood platform to Unknown: go across the world. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I think everyone involved, who does not build or hire people to build roads for wants to see the historic nature, and part of that is a wood bridge with wood decking. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, at the Historical Society, they have an article, I believe, from 1987 talking about petition that everybody have to keep it right, a wood bridge. And it's from a historical point of view that would be the nature that I think that we, after discussion, could possibly support, yes, Unknown: yeah. I mean, I think first, well, first, you know what I think this happening so far, is that the wooden underpinnings of the bridge would stay wood, and then the question is, what's the best alternative to fix the decking? Which is what the state finds insufficient? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I guess that is what. And you would like the decking to stay wood? Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay, that's what I was really the Unknown: question is, I think one of the first questions is whether this blue Lane stuff looks like is wood and looks like wood. Richard Conard: How do you spell that? Is that? Unknown: When I Googled it, it's G, l, u, l, a, m, the Wikipedia article, I found out it said nothing about asphalt, um,
Richard Conard: pertaining to the historic nature of the bridge from I looked at our Historical Commission files this morning that Kate had had our volunteers pull out, and apparently the current structure dates from about 1991 or two. Yeah, the entire bridge was replaced as part of a timber bridge special funding program. Yes, so there are copies of these copy but the current Ridge is not in and of itself, historic, Unknown: right? Historically is the Richard Conard: predecessor bridges, and the fact that there was a bridge at that location does make it a historic site? Unknown: Yes, yeah. And the previous bridge, I believe, was built in 1925 renovated 1947 and from this article and other sources, it sounds like it was absolutely beyond repair. From the photos, it actually looked a lot less historic the current bridge. Richard Conard: The current bridge does look historic. Yes, because it's built to timber bridge. Yes, design the decking. I went out there and looked at it myself, and I can testify that I got some creosote. Yeah, crawling underneath the beams from underneath look like they're in great condition. Yeah, it's just the decking, and the vehicles rattle when they go over the decking, and I can see where the decking is in a ship. But, and it's curious that the bridge is not posted. I mean, from what I have seen, if it was a weight, you know, structural issue, it would be posted. So I assume there are fuel trucks. Unknown: And what would there? I'm glad you raised that, because I'm always wondering, here's this beautiful bridge. We have semi trucks going over all the time, especially from retail landscapes. Yeah, it has a couple of large places in sun Bernie. We've got five or six school busses a day going to Lincoln Sudbury High School each way. We have other big trucks that went by. And we've seen, you know, the road itself is not intended to be a major partial throw up there, and why has there never been like, you know, a common sense weight limit, like five Tom put on it while you were discussing the annual report and stuff, I was searching on Sherman's bridge. And, you know, Lewis at a Board of Public Works meeting a couple years ago asked the same question, and the response was, Well, that's, you know, ask the Select Board, because they're the road memberships, yeah, maybe that's something we should be asking the road commissioners for. Richard Conard: So from the material you sent out, I guess the bridge is expected every six months now, instead of two years, yes, yeah. So if you were able to obtain a copy of the inspection report today, Unknown: I've got it in your back. I just don't have to say I got it, yeah, Richard Conard: that would probably indicate the structural condition. They probably identified the deck as the as the issue is, I just Bradford Carver: took a quick glance right now, and I think that's what it's done back and make sure. So I so I understand where we are currently. The discussion is to put this glue Lane decking on which it looks like some sort of wood or wood composite, is that? But the current thinking is, I think so. I think that's what, that's what will be revealed on October 1 of the public forum, okay, and, and this is a joint effort between Sudbury and Wayland. It's had a cost of 1.6 that would be split between the two towns, with a little bit of an aspect, like the driving motion on that. And that is, I think the state has offered to pay for the cost of materials, which is around three or four. And do we know if Sudbury and or Wayland have actually allocated the money for that? Yet, on the July the take of the July 15 Board of Public Works meetings, Tom holder basically talked about, they have the latitude and the way that the funds are allocated, where they, you know, for instance, publish the list of streets expected to be repaid in the next fiscal year, to jump the key for this project, if it makes sense. Okay, yeah, because I was going to say, if the money hasn't been allocated, nothing's going to happen for a while, but, but I understand the same I think they feel they have a latitude for, you know, the six or $7,000 from cost Wayland to move it up, right? And I guess, because it's, it's a new bridge, meaning 1991 it's, it's built to historic standards, which is, which is great, I guess. I'm not sure if, and I certainly think I love the way it looks.
But do we, and we can certainly opine on what we would like to see happen. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we can, as historical commissioners in protection of the history of Wayland, we can certainly push for wood planking to go on a decking. And the second that's one thing. And the second thing, and especially when you were discussing adding another pedestrian walkway, is concerns about possible archeology disturbances there, because Castle Hill sensitive side, it's within a half a mile. And there are other sites that are also within half a mile of the radius. Plus, I would think the Sudbury Valley trustees would also be concerned about that as well, and so we would want to be involved in any digging that would be done. There wouldn't be any digging. Well, you have to put the posts in for Unknown: recording the architect, and you've seen the strength of thing. I think you just cantilever. The way that the existing walkways is cantilever on the other side, Bradford Carver: basically just putting some additional 45 degree angle posts on the bridge. I see nothing you do in the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: kitchen now, all right, I understand. So they would have to get as far as the bridge before they would have the pedestrian walkway Right, right, instead of building a platform at either end of the and having it as a separate I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Unknown: Okay, Doug, can I ask you a question? Is that so there is no opportunity, no chance for us to retain what at this point? Um, it's pretty No, it's, it's, I think we're looking at a different type of board. That's what's being proposed. Yeah, that's being proposed. But, I mean, there's no opportunity for us to say we would like the state to consider changing the the types of vehicles allowed to cross and and the speed with which they cross Diana purview. I'm just asking, yeah, I think that's a stance that residents could take. Okay, I of course, would prefer number one to stick with wood right and then right. If we can't, if that is already off the table, then the next best thing is something that looks like what? But I, I just wanted to understand if that was on the table. So it should have the tape and, yeah, and you know, the question is, the complaints are, and the issues are, is that the rough cut was there and the bolts take a beating and get loose and pop up. The question is, would that still happen if school busses and track? Trailer, so don't go over Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, unfortunately, I don't know that we have much impact on the traffic or the speed limit, right? It goes over the bridge, but we can certainly advocate for wood planking and work with the Sudbury Historical Commission, which is pretty powerful in Sudbury, to support that idea, but I don't know that we, other than individuals who may or may not want to support but as a commission, I don't think that we have much say in the other Unknown: understood statement, right Katherine Gardner-Wescott: anybody else have questions or comments. So like in 1987 Yes, 1987 setting up a petition for neighbors and people who use the bridge. I was there looking at it also, and the first night that I read about the meeting, and I thought to myself, well, these cars are not going 20 miles an hour. They're not and they're coming from Sudbury. Most of them are from Sudbury and but even those that were headed to Sudbury, we're speeding right along. Yeah, it's interesting. Unknown: There's actually not much that much traffic on Sherman Road, except during morning rush hour, particular, especially it's work on those something we've got a stop sign a couple of years ago, there a fun fact is there are 200 tour cars a day going west on Sherman's Bridge Road, and east, there more people use to Avoid morning Katherine Gardner-Wescott: rush hour, but after to avoid route 20 and so forth, right? Unknown: And, of course, the complicating factor during the morning rush hour is you have a bunch of probably 7516 or 17 year olds driving to Lincoln Sudbury High School, one way, with folks held back through Boston. The other way. But if you mail those mailbox posts
Richard Conard: and stuff, Unknown: there's some model cars that use that as a bathroom, because Sunbury Central and 126 and especially, see a lot of them. And, you know, I think it's probably picked up a Watson squeeze and Google Maps data. Bradford Carver: Actually, I can tell you one of the reasons why there may be discrepancy, because Gleason language I live on, okay, is also a cut through, yes, but they have turn restrictions there during rush hour. Now, okay, they're probably directed on insurance, so there's some assuming there's some structural symmetry, yes, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right. Well, when I was there, it was late, it was around seven, and there were and I wasn't there very long. I'm long enough to walk across the bridge, we're back again, and go down and talk to a few kayakers, but there must have been a dozen cars that went both ways. So there was activity in the evening, other than rush hour, is Unknown: what I'm trying to say. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So it is a concern, and I have reached out to Chris Hager at Sudbury Historical Commission. I have yet to hear back from him about anything, but honestly, I was unaware of the October 1 meeting, and where is that going to be? Unknown: Oh, that's likely to be in Sudbury. In Sudbury, whispered, so Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I wrote down Sunbury, but I didn't know where. Yeah, so any other comments or questions Unknown: or didn't hear what you've said last day Katherine Gardner-Wescott: of the October meeting that will be a combination of Wayland and Sudbury to discuss the bridge is going to probably be held in Sudbury, so we have to keep an eye out to see what that is. And I said before that that I reached out to Chris Hager for to hear what his committee thought, and I have not heard back from him. On anything else you want to share. Unknown: No, I mean, I just, you know, obviously, any it's great that you're offering to work with the Sudbury Historical Commission and state the views of the Wayland mission. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Further stories in the post about this, Unknown: we see a screen to post about us and other other media. Yeah, it's, it's interesting things like the West weekly article popping up all the time and, and there is a, you know, it's interesting story. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It is. And we're here to try to keep it as historically accurate as possible. We can do that if it had sleeping in funding. But since it doesn't, Unknown: or you forgot the word yet, yeah,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you'll see. Okay. Thank you for coming in. I really appreciate that
Unknown: agenda.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So we're back to Wayland festival of help now. How many of you are familiar with Wayland festival that's going on on October 4? Jerry Ann, is it is kind of an outreach of a combination of multicultural festival and touch a truck merging together to honor the town in the community, the organizations in the town. And it's also an entertainment for lots of different organizations to come forward and show their particular, particular artistic skills. And so we have been invited to have a table there. This is an opportunity to show that there is a Historical Commission and what we do, it also helps us to help them understand that we're not the local the historic district or the historical society, that we are own entity. We're the only state approved legal entity for the town to preserve the history of the town, and what we do, how we do to do that. Now, of course, a lot of interest would be in the Native American artifacts that we have that we can display, and there should be some identification of what the article is and what it's used for, because not everybody here is familiar with Native American artifacts, but it is a very long day. It is almost nine hours. It doesn't mean that we can't leave early if we feel the traffic is down and we're exhausted because we are a small group of seven. But it also means that we have to share our time on October 4, and we have to be there. Not one person can be there all day. And it means maybe an hour and a half to two hours, depending on your ability to stay, I have asked for a table. They do not provide any covering from sun or wind or rain, so we would need something to help us with that, Unknown: especially to perfect our exhibits, protect all what our exhibits of artifacts. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, our artifacts. But I also want to show beyond the Native American that we also are interested in historic buildings and our flag program and things like that. So what I need is people to sign up for hours, and unlike Sherry Ann, I did not have a chance because I don't have a printer to print off a sign up sheet. But I will be sending one out, and I expect all of us to participate the best we can, and I know that I will be covering two different tables at two different times of the day, so I'm not real sure that I can give you more than two hours or three hours at the Most, but and the most important part is the setting up, which starts at 930 in the morning, and then the taking down and returning items to the lab into the office, which means not just dumping them there for the next time somebody comes in, but actually putting them away, so that when the lab opens and the office opens again, it's presentable and people can work in there. I also think that we need to talk about how to present some of these items, because presenting things, we can have a plaque of folder to hand out we can have a plaque actually there. How do we show the interest in the historical buildings in town, not just houses, but buildings as well. And I understand you already have. Boxes of Native American artifacts that you can bring that you don't have to do anything for Unknown: that. You have several. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I need everybody's thoughts on this, because I certainly don't have the answers.
Bradford Carver: My immediate thought is that, first of all, it hasn't been terribly well advertised. I didn't know about it until you told told me about it, but, but I think you can have much people just kind of wandering around. And I think if you want to grab their attention, what you're probably going to need are like large, ultra sized photographs that would grab their attention. And what, what I'm thinking of are like the stones bridge, for example, the cemetery stone pictures that you have something that are all in Wayland, maybe a picture of one of the older houses in Wayland. But I think that you need three or four large polter size photographs that are going to draw people in and then you can talk to them, or perhaps have handouts and explain what, what we do, how we go about making those posters, I'm not Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and budgeting for it, right? Because we've had, we have speakers lined up that are going to take up most of our budget, because we're limited to $1,000 so this means budgeting for pictures at Staples or wherever that we decide to get them done and and how to set them up. You can't just leave them flat on the table, because nobody will notice them, and you need some sort of support for them, because otherwise the blow away and wind all things that we need to think about. But I like the idea of the pictures, because, like you say, we can't bring stone bridge there. We can't bring a house there, that kind of thing. Any creative ideas and your heart? Ann Gordon: Well, I was not clear on what you said about the budget. Is there money for us to pursue ideas like Brad's? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we have Dennis Picard. We have to pay for Yeah, we have the Native American speaker that Tanya is negotiating with to pay for. And did we think Francis Perkins? No, that's out of the 2/50 that's the 250 Well, if we do Francis Perkins in cooperation with the 2/50 we were thinking that there might be some funds left over for speakers so that the commission could also get credit for bringing Francis Perkins to this children, the high school children, her speaking there because she's more expensive to speak to them only because they have over 200 people. They said that would be in particular, would be in the audience to watch her, and our price goes up according to the size of her audience. But this is important, and it's something that we can use again later on. So we may say we just don't have the money for Francis Perkins. And so Bradford Carver: can I ask about Tom resources? I mean, we're a commission of the town. Does the town have, like tables, a table and a chair and that sort of thing that they can provide? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I asked for the Wayland festival people if they would supply the table and chairs. So I have not heard a negative on that, so I'm counting on that. But as they clearly said, we have no sun protection or winter rain production that totally is up to you to participate and take care of so and as far as I know, there's no funding pot of money in the town that would pay for any of the things that we've been talking about. Unknown: Well, Rick and I last Wednesday, went up to the recreation department to talk to them, and Peter reference with Francois, yeah, is who we spoke with Yes. And he said, Oh, we can always get new tables at no problem. But he didn't say anything about the overhead, though, so, but they are trying to bring a tag from the Museum of our national air. Of Egypt to this event. And I think there were some logistic problems trying to get that, you know. So he told us about that, and we were interested to hear that he would make sure that we would try to get a table so Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well we already have the table. We do. I mean, we have the site. She has not made the table plan, so to speak, like you do for a wedding of where everybody's going to be. Also, I have just a question. Do we want to be seated next? Should we ask to be seated next to the Historical Society? Or would you rather be in a location that was different, so that people would clearly see that we're two different organizations, and also history gets hit twice, instead of all in one spot, or you want to combine them together so that we make a bigger impact on history. I don't know which way you want to look at it, I guess so. I'm asking for opinions.
Unknown: I think in some ways, to be separate but close by would be good, but to be together would be also good. I think that way we could explain the difference between our organizations.
Bradford Carver: Is the historic district Commission also going to be there. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I have not heard that they are we, because we're an active group where the historic district is more an inclusive area that only affects a certain number of people, but whereas we affect the whole town, the society affects the whole town. That we've been asked to participate. Bradford Carver: My reaction would be that the two should be next to each other. Unknown: Okay, I had a complete opposite. I had an opposite thought. I thought we should be the complete opposite side of this face, Bradford Carver: but I get my i That was my first thought when Kay mentioned it. But then I thought, but people are going to go to the Historical Society, and then they're going to go to the Historical Commission, and somebody's going to say, Well, what do you guys do? What what you're going to say? What's the difference between you two? And for that reason, I thought just put them together, because they're going to ask the question, what? What's the difference between the two? Unknown: I do, I do think we have to avoid them going to only one, thinking that they're the same thing. Agree and and I think that that will, that will have to do with how we decorate each part. Decorate each one, I guess Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what we present, right? Yeah, I kind of agree with separation, because one is town supported or town active, and the other is a 501, 3c independent. They are asking for memberships. We don't ask for memberships. We could create a pickup handout that says, What's the difference, if we wanted to go that far, but it just seems to me that while history is the same interest. We have two different sets of goals here, one for the commission in the historical society, for theirs. So that was my reaction, but I can see your point that.
But will they be? Will we have more of an opportunity to explain the difference if they come up and say, Well, wait a minute, I just saw the society over there. What do you do versus I'm at the society table and I'm walking away because you're just more history. Bradford Carver: No, it's good. Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree with anything that the two of you said, but we Unknown: don't, but he's but you're right. We don't want, we don't want to have a colonial image of a house that happens skip our table because they already saw a colonial house with the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: other it's a our house doesn't have to be colonial because it doesn't have to be a colonial Unknown: No, no. I know that's what I'm saying. I think it's all about how we present, present it, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? So Unknown: unfortunately, it's with the black soap. So the plaques are a very cool feature that we can profile and promote. Yeah, right, but, but you know that, so I almost that's something i. That might lead them to think, you know, with the homes, I don't know that that's, that's the only, that's the confusing part. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The The other thing is, I hate to say this, because I know we're using up a lot of time, but we're not meeting again, unless you want to meet again, just on this topic. But decisions have to be made today, because the fourth comes before our next meeting, I think, doesn't it? Yes, yeah, so decisions have to be made today, although I will send out sign up sheets to everybody later. But we have to decide what we're going to promote, what we're going to show, and how much money we can spend out of our budget. Unknown: Yeah, that's the question. If we start at 930 when is the official end Katherine Gardner-Wescott: at 636? Um, seven. Now whether they stop at six and say the last half hours for packing up, I don't know. I haven't heard that one way or the other. I've just been told 930 set up. Unknown: 630 10 o'clock opening, according to the town site, it's 10 to six, and this the official hours, okay? And so set up is before that breakdown is after, right? And you have Tom 10 to 610. To six. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Also, you have to realize that I don't know where they're going to tell you to park. So how, how heavy, or what you bring, you probably have to carry to your site. My understanding is the tables are set up along Andrew Avenue. That's the road with the little bumps in it. There will be a parade that will go down Andrew Avenue, and so people will be walking in this, probably in the streets as well as the sidewalk, so which means there may be people behind you and people in front of you. You can't leave the table unattended, because they're expecting 2000 people, based, I think, on the multicultural and the touch of truck, uh, people that have come before, forget the tech. Well, if the tank comes, but I mean, the point is, they're expecting over 2000 people to come, which means that we really, and nobody should say, Oh, I don't know anything about Native American artifacts. Or I don't know what you do is you respond and say, Oh, if you're really interested, give me your email and I'll have somebody who does know answer you, or you can divert them to some other topic that you do know something about. So even if you feel uncomfortable saying, I really don't know anything about this, because, for whatever reason, we still need your presence there, feel free to invite a spouse or family members or a friend to come and sit with you. If you don't want to sit alone at the table, because we're such a small group, I can't guarantee that there will be two of us there the whole time. Unknown: So and I asked another question, just where along Andrew Avenue are things areas where we're going to set up? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I have absolutely no idea, because she has not set up the table yet. From what my understanding, she's in the process of doing that, and that's why I wanted to put in a request of whether we wanted to be next to the historical society or a distance away from the Historical Society. Just what is the she, who's running a friend, Pollock, is doing the tables. Bradford Carver: It seems to me that Tom Green, you know, the the banks of grass, no, on Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the avenue. We're on the Avenue, the stage is set up for the entertainment. There at the base is going to be the porta potties and the where the performers will get ready to go on to the stage, so that's totally filled behind Ace Hardware is going to be the touch of truck or tank area. Food trucks will be down at the COA. And the Andrew Avenue would be the thoroughfare between all these venues. Bradford Carver: Well, that would tell me, then they're going to close off the traffic on Andrews and the tables would be set up on the road. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It that could be. But again, you're going to have people in front of you, right Unknown: behind you, be on the side, through that through the tables. Bradford Carver: To be on the sidewalk, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I would think we would be on the sidewalk because of the parade going through, but that's first thing in the morning, and whether they'll say, Now, move on that. Move yourself down into the street or the people on the sidewalk. I'm not no. I've been informed. Yes. Ann Gordon: And Tanya, are you asking because you're worried about how you're going to get your artifacts to the site?
Unknown: Well, I'm not too worried about it. We can just put them in a Ann Gordon: car and drive them over, right? I think we can certainly drop things off close to where we're going to be. I think we can drop our things close to the site, and even if we can't park close. Yeah? So okay, you're looking for us each to sign up for maybe a two hour shift. Is that the bottom line? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, exactly. Well, there's seven of us. So if people take a minimum of 90 minutes, maybe some people will have to work a little bit longer than others. Or if you wanted to be generous, and do a two hour shift, that would be even better. And that would include, that does not really include the setup and take down. That's an added time that somebody would have to carry the stuff and put it on the table and carry it back and then unload it back here at Town Hall, or maybe keep it till Monday morning. I don't know if you can get in on the weekend back here at Town Hall, town building, Ann Gordon: yeah, I think that's, that's a good question. Well, I'm happy to sign up for a shift if you're going to send us a sign up sheet, yes, and it would be, I think it'd be nice for all of us if we overlap a little bit with each other, so that Absolutely, we're not just doing it by ourselves in terms of what to display. I really like Brad's idea of the large photos. And if we can rustle up a little bit of money from our budget to pay for that, I think it would be money well spent, because we could use them at other events. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So now I need to know what photographs that you want to I mean, if we want to print out a flyer application, that's money for printing that out, unless we can do that as a printer working in the lab. Do you know Bradford Carver: when a flat flyer application for flat, flat? Oh, well, that, well, we have the application that that's going to be on the agenda. I have suggestions on changing, okay, but that's just printing, you know, 100 applications. That's for 50
or 25 that's not hard. I can, I can do that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, so the handouts, Brad's going to take care of, for the plaques, Unknown: and have a list of once we decide on not qualifications, but guidelines for how you can choose a house to be flat, oh, to have at least four talking there. So those of us man and get questions, we've at least got something to look at, yep, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: which is the other big topic on the today's agenda. Okay, so black guidelines. What about choosing a house that to display? Unknown: See that's, I don't think we should, because I think that's, that's fairly confusing. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't think well at this, at this point in time, the plans are not to have any house display at the Historical Society. Unknown: But I think that they're just going to assume, if they see a historical home, they're going to assume that within Historical Commission, that it's, I think instead, that we we put either the bridge or we put either Sherman's bridge, since it's going to be in the news, or we put stones bridge, or we put a projectile point. Or, I think, like the Bradford Carver: tower, build train tower. Bill Ann Gordon: perfect. I think that the train signal at the DEP Unknown: signal, yeah, or, or your noi tower, Hill cabinet, some, some, some success that we've had recently
that's a better Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, but the Commission also, and this is something else that will be brought up at a future. Meaning is Macris, which we all love to go to and find out about the history of the area and the house. We haven't done anything in that in a long time, and we really need to continue to research houses, especially in the Cochituate area. There's a lot been done in the north end of town, but very few done in the Cochituate town to be placed on the Macros. Macros is not a done deal. It's an ongoing project, and we have neglected to participate in that for a very long time. And it's time that we do maybe one house or two houses a year or something, but that's for later discussion. But what I'm trying to point out is the history of buildings in town, and it doesn't have to be a house. We could take a public building and we, we are people that are doing the history of it. We're the ones. Unknown: No, I can't get you and I, and I totally I understand what our mission is. I just don't want to confuse people upfront. That's all. But if you maybe it's just me. Oh no, no. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't want to put you on the spot. I'm just saying that. I'm trying to show that we have a diversity of history that we're interested in protecting, and I think we can discuss Unknown: that with people, and I think even if we have it on the table. But I think the big thing that draws people in should be something different. Well, I like, Bradford Carver: there's actually a blend of that. What you could do is going to have a photograph, have a photograph of a plaque on a house, say, an older house, zoom, kind of zoomed in on the on the plat, so you see it's an older house. You're not necessarily highlighting the house. You're highlighting the plan. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't know. Okay, maybe you could work on that, since I'm working on some of these other things, Bradford Carver: sure. Yeah, we have to work on the whole right photographs on the board. I'm not right that need, we need Ann Gordon: Brad, if you're if you're willing, I'll work with you on the photographs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, great. And, and what about the signage that we're planning on? I mean, people ought to know that we are putting out signs too, even though that hasn't actually happened yet, but we're working on it. Yeah. Ann Gordon: I mean, we don't have anything to show so nothing, you know, there's no photograph that we Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you have, you have the mansion in mock up kind of thing. Ann Gordon: I'm not in favor of that, because it's, it's just not a done deal, and it's something you know, that's been on our agenda for so long. I just, I feel uncomfortable that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: deal, but it is a thing that we have been working on for a very long time, and I have more information on that, which I will refer to after we finish this discussion, but just keep it in the back of your mind. I'm not going to forget something you don't want to do. Ann Gordon: Well, Brad and I will put our heads together and come up with a recommendation.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, do we have to meet again to come to a finalization that's why I'm trying to get final decisions today. Ann Gordon: Well, I don't think we can make final decisions in this meeting. I don't think we know enough about what photos we have access to. I feel like I have a good sense from the discussion that we're interested in, maybe a railroad subject matter like the Tower Hill signal or the,
I'm sorry, the Tower Hill signal cabinet, or the signal at the DEP, I think something like stones bridge or large structure in town, I personally would recommend a before and after cemetery stone, because that's a huge project. A lot of money we're spending from the town, and we should show people what they're getting for their money. Bradford Carver: And we have those pictures from Josh, yeah, we Ann Gordon: have a lot of pictures, and then maybe we do a close up of a plaque, as you suggested. Or maybe that's a smaller, you know, in a little Plexiglas frame standing next to the applications. That explains what the plaque program is, I don't think we everything needs to be in a, you know, big poster size photo.
Unknown: I would prefer to have a real plot as an example. Bradford Carver: That's more money, though. Price costs 70 bucks. We don't Unknown: have a good demo. One different, yeah. Bradford Carver: I have photographs of plaques that that we could blow up or make into there about the accurate size, but I don't have any
Unknown: accepted too Bradford Carver: just I can just take one off old houses, Unknown: a more recent one, and for us to show, Bradford Carver: actually, to that point we, in all seriousness, we have four applications. If we got one of them approved, I had to sign made before October 4. I'm sure the homeowner would say, yeah, we can borrow it for the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: What about the restoration one that wanted a new refresher plaque to replace the one they had. I would ask them if they put it on their house yet. If they haven't, maybe we could borrow Bradford Carver: theirs. Well, I guess that's what I'm saying. I haven't approved any of these yet. Oh, okay, but what I'm saying is, if we approve one or more of them, I could ask the homeowner, before it gets put on, can we just borrow the front I'm sure they'd say yes. I'm sure Katherine Gardner-Wescott: they were too Okay, so posters, and that's going to have, Unknown: I would suggest one of the posters to go with the pictures is to say Wayland Historical Commission. So you got a big name on our table? Yeah, I agree with that. I'd the tables going to be this thing or bigger Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or, I have not been told, Tanya, I have no information to give you. Oh, I could see Unknown: two or three artifacts. I wouldn't bring them all. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: You're going to have to be selected. What I would also suggest is on these photographs. Is this a collage that you're putting together? Are you suggesting doing an
Ann Gordon: I don't, I can't answer that. Brad and I will, Brad and I will make a recommendation. Bradford Carver: I guess the only thing I would say is they need. Each photograph needs to be large enough so that if you're 10 feet away, you can see it and say, That's interesting and walk up to it. As opposed to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what I was wondering about, was a handout that explained a little, not a lot, a little history, like on stones bridge or on the road, Tower Hill, or what was the other one that you were talking about? Oh, cemeteries, that, this is a CPA project that that we brought to the town and are supporting, and what's happening, just a few lines or something, so that, if, say, if I'm talking to somebody else, and somebody walks up and they're just looking at the pictures and then walk away, but there's some text that they can read. It can be either in a handout or underneath the picture, explaining so that they're engaged while the person behind the table is engaged with somebody else. Ann Gordon: Yeah, I understand. I can, I can do that.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, all right. Unknown: Well, there is a paper in an whole publication about the beginning of the Wayland archeology group that Bobby Robinson had written. How we got started. And I don't remember how many pages it is, but we could make copies of that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that's too much, and I don't think people, they may pick it up, but then not really follow through reading on it, and we paid for the expense of printing it all up and so forth. So unless you can pair it down to a paragraph or so, you know that's of interest, but maybe you could probably Unknown: do it to one sheet.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But again, we're talking about cost of printing, cost of doing public a colored, I assume, colored photographs, plaques, posters. And I was thinking that we should have a small 250 logo on our table, because we are paying for or not? Yes, we're paying for Anne's doing the PR. Are you for the 2/50 Is that correct Anne to yes and and I have gotten speakers which will have the commission as a co sponsor for the 2/50 and so we want to show that we are participating in that as well. I don't think it has to be as big as perhaps what you're talking about, but it needs the Yeah, the image needs to be there so people know that that we're doing. Do that, anything else that people can think of, be sure that you bring your own drinks don't dehydrate.
Unknown: Do I have a tent? I don't have a tent Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or cover or a large umbrella that you can attach to a table. Unknown: Tom and I were talking about that the other night, and he we used to have one of those tar things, but I think we got rid of it a long time ago. So did I? I mean, I used to have a pop up, but for soccer. But I don't know where it is in the mood. I don't know, somewhere in the bother of my Facebook. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, even though you may not personally own one, maybe you have a friend who can ask and see if they know somebody who has one. I mean, we don't have to limit it just to seven. We can spread out the ask for help. But we're not above asking for help on things. So you know, I would follow up on that by Unknown: being able to rent one. They're expensive. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They are very expensive. Unknown: So Well, no, there are possible and expensive, Fonda and expansive Watkins, which you can buy, yeah, they're not that expensive to buy, but I think to rent would be at least. And Katherine Gardner-Wescott: also, if you buy the ones that are on legs, remember, you're on a sidewalk and a road or a road, there's no ground to stick the things into so that's another concern. Unknown: That's true. No pegs to go through the property, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? And I think they'd be Unknown: happy, and that's a problem. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So you will be something you have to put sandbags on to keep it upright, or whatever. But that's just things to be considered. That's why a table umbrella would be really ideal. If somebody has one of those, or knows somebody that has one, has visited somebody who had one, that anything you might be able to borrow any other questions that I can't answer on this.
Unknown: Who's going to ask another question? If we want some kind of little poster printed up, what can we do? I'm not My hands aren't good for printing out posters anymore. I don't think so. Is there an easy way that we can get that done? When you say posters, what do you still I mean something about the artifacts and, you know, just a little thing to put out so people can see, read about it.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Are you talking about folding paper in half and having something here or, well, you could put that on a computer and print it out, and then if I can Unknown: get my computer back, it's been in Cambridge for months,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but we do need some information about the artifacts, especially for those of us that are not as familiar with them, so we can read it and regurgitate it back to the public, so to speak. Unknown: Might have something in the office for you. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Might see what you've already got for labels and see what so choose carefully what you bring. Maybe you could just bring the things that have labels on them. Unknown: Well, I remember that the pieces of cardboard that Tom used to make, and he had that wonderful printing, and so he used to make some really nice things for exhibits. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And I would request, if it's at all possible, that you bring some artifacts that can be touched, that people can actually touch. Unknown: So we have one box like that, but I've got another box. Well, one box is over in the single way on exhibit. The artifacts are from the box, and then we have another one. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: People like to touch things. So if you if people like to touch things. So if we could bring something that the kids can pick up, or the parents can pick up, we have Unknown: a box like that. It says, Please touch Richard Conard: it's a white cardboard box. It's a cardboard Unknown: box about this, Fay, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: okay, and so you just have to pay attention that nobody walks off with something. Bradford Carver: But that would be my concern, because if you have, and I don't mean in a disparate way, to catch it all, but I could see a kid picking up a. An artifact and putting in his Unknown: pocket that happened in the third grade, and quite bit, right? Bradford Carver: So I'm a little concerned about, well, you have that many people walking by, things that you can pick up and touch, because they may not, they may be touched into fear. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, if you put the artifacts back here where you're sitting, rather than out front unattended, I think. And you could say here, would you like to hold this and see how heavy it is, or would you like to feel how the shape? And then you're right there with your hand ready to take it back. I think people are pretty good about doing I'm I'm letting a lot more people touch things in the historical society than has previously been allowed because you just do, you want to touch it. You want to feel what the materials like, you want to feel, how heavy things are, are interested. And I'm assuming that these are things that, if they did disappear, that it's not a major portion of Unknown: the well, no, but it's most of our heavy stuff. I don't know. We have no provenience on it. We don't know where they came from. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, then if that disappears, that's not such a big thing compared. Unknown: We don't have another and I could always come to this side of the table and stand there where you can, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or any of us can, but I agree, I understand. It's a real do i or don't I situation absolutely anything else on this particular topic, because then we need to keep moving. You find Tom just playing Tom, oh, yeah, Can I just jump again to the 2/50 anniversary. The 2/50 anniversary, we have engaged history at play to do Deborah Sampson, she will be doing in the books theater on January. Let me see if I didn't What? No calendar. Save it 10. I want to send it 10s too, but I want to just double check
in January, oh, goodness, it's not here. I thought it would be here. I believe it is January 11 at 2pm what is going on. Deborah Sampson, history of play. It'll be at the Volks theater. Yeah, certainly tell your friends to save the date, so to speak. The other one is April 10. We do not have a venue at this point, but it'll be Frances Perkins, so she's going to be involved. And
as I said before, we're hoping to, on the same day, have her do a special Unknown: presentation. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Thank you, presentation on for high school students, because she's an important people that they should be aware of. And the whole goal of the 2/50 is to be sure people understand that the liberties that were fought for 250 years ago are liberties that we still enjoy and that we are still pursuing. So will be the same day the yes for the high school and the yes she's seven o'clock for for an evening performance for the Tom and now High School is yet to be determined, and that's just for the students. Anything else on that to 50th? Unknown: Wait, sorry, what was the date? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Or 11th at 2pm and Unknown: folks, oh, the 7pm Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the 7pm is the Francis Perkins, April 10, which is a Friday night this coming September 21 Gretchen Schuler is doing a walk to the historic district archeology walk. So we want to architecture, architecture, architecture. Thank you. I'm sorry so many A's. Um. So please sign up for that so they know how many people there. They're going to have a small reception afterwards on the front lawn of the historical society with 1700 recipe cookies. So to have a curiosity about what they taste like or look Unknown: like, what date is that architectural Katherine Gardner-Wescott: wall? Uh, September 21 Unknown: Oh, I thought it was this Sunday. Oh, see. Okay, first. Ah, okay, that's why. What time of the day to two o'clock? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else on the 2/50 in case, this is just throwing this out. In case anybody's interested on the on the 20th of September, there is Apple Fest at the wayside inn, and we Historical Society has a table there and many activities. So if you have children or grandchildren you want to take there are a lot of things for them to do as well. And stop by and say hello to the Historical Society. Anything else on the 2/50 I think, at the moment, so let's go back to display the Tom building discussion. Has anybody come up with any ideas? And we are going to probably have to move the discussion the display pretty soon. We hear that the display in the town building, yes,
Richard Conard: we found the combination to the locks on cabinet in the archeology law we tried it out and so we can open case Unknown: bar, the Tom bar, fantastic. So can start to remove Katherine Gardner-Wescott: this. I think that you need to remove them sooner rather than later, because I'm sure they not happy that we're dragging our feet on this. They want it out.
Unknown: What they let us put it, some of it back in that would be put, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, we're in discussion about a possibility of a smaller case, so that Native American can be on display and keep in the forefront of people's minds. But that's just the discussion at this point. There's no Unknown: be nice if it could be on a table display, just that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So you would have to decide what artifacts that you would want to display. Unknown: I'm talking about the diorama. I'm
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: not going to hold my breath Unknown: already in No, yeah, that's not happening. I thought they haven't. I haven't heard they definitely don't want Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that. They definitely don't want that, pretty clear. Unknown: They definitely don't want the diagram. They don't Katherine Gardner-Wescott: understand it. I know they don't understand it. It's too bad, but they don't. And the whole point is that we have to find a new home that appreciates it and can be used Unknown: about the historical society
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: mentioned space.
Unknown: No, it's the big one? What's a possibility for asking that's a familiarity center. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Pretty, dim, dim. Unknown: Well, no, what if we talk to Julie? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: To who? Julie? Yeah, oh, Julie, feel free to talk to Julie about it. Why? Huh, to feel free to talk to Julie about it. Okay, I did to Unknown: the educational area of
the townhouse. Rooms are huge, and in the corner they could put it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: display again. Would you like to be in charge of that? That i will i I'm Unknown: happy to have covered in Plexiglas. The kids could look at it, sure.
But mean, they must do a unit. There's a mandatory unit on, on, you know, the native people of Massachusetts. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So, yeah, anybody who wants to talk to teachers or schools or anyone else but. I will tell you that when things are put away in schools, just from my experience, things are not carefully put away. Things are not necessarily, well, they don't have a storage either. That's the problem, yeah, so, Unknown: yeah, they just don't understand that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And maybe there needs to be an explanation that goes along with it, that it points out the fishing weirs, the drying fish, the canoe that's being built that tied Tom leaf, and why the buildings are built the way they are, to keep the wind out and so forth and the cold and so forth. So I think it's needs more information to make people interested in it. The reason people are not interested in it here is because, like you said, they don't know because there's no explanation with it. That's part of the problem. They don't understand Unknown: it well, I can go around and talk to them, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but that doesn't help. When you get new staff. Doesn't help the public when they come in, they don't understand it. And that's the whole point is, it's not something that people get and it needs to be done. Okay? So we're going to remove the artifacts from the top portion of the display as soon as possible. Yeah, let's do that. And then you're going to talk to Julie about possible display of the native village. Unknown: Can we give her the case too? Because they don't want the case. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They don't want the case. I don't know. Have you looked Have you seen that? It's two parts. No, I haven't. Well, you stayed in the hallway when you go, Unknown: I obviously know how that opens up. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we'll, we'll figure it out. Yeah, okay, anything else on that? Or can I move forward? Because I'm, I don't know, until the time of this village. Oh, no, I was looking for 10. Okay, 310 Well, we kind of already talked about the Sherman bridge activity. So how about cemetery information? Bradford Carver: Cemetery, we got the most recent requisition invoice. Very small amount, $1,300 the the activity is, is still way behind schedule. And if you can help me out with the percentages, I think that they're pretty much done with the the
Richard Conard: stuff, Bradford Carver: phase one stones, the one that are cleaning, and they're mainly done with the phase three stones, which are the ones that require the most amount of work, very little, if any, work has been done on on phase two. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Are you talking about cleaning or repairs? Bradford Carver: They actually did that called Fay. What are they called? Ann Gordon: You're back. You're backwards. Brad, the priority, priority one are the ones that need the most work, that need either to be reset or and those, I don't have the exact percentage, but a high percentage of those are done, and the cleaning is largely done, but I think the the overall percentage of work done is really the figure that we need to pay attention to, and that is 30% of the work is done, and that The summer has has been slow in terms of progress. At the end of June, they were 27% done. At the end of July, they were 29.9% done. And at the end of August, 30% done. So. I think Brad, I think we said this at our last meeting, and we need to schedule you, and I need to schedule another meeting with epic and really talk about what they see going forward in terms of their ability to do this work. The fellow that they hired this year has been doing all the cleaning, but he's not trained to do more than that yet, and Rachel said she doesn't want to, you know, put him on our work until she's confident that he can do it, which obviously, yeah, we feel that way too. I don't know what they're playing what what his training regimen looks like, how he's learning who's teaching him? Is he going to a program or a class? Us, or is it on the job training? I have a lot of questions. I'm sure you do too, Brad, and I think we need to connect with them and and have a conversation about it. Bradford Carver: All right, because priority one are the ones that require the most amount of work. And Josh, as Anne said, I think he's done most of most of that work, we can get an exact percentage of completion on that but those are the ones I think require the highest degree of skill. Three, which is cleaning, which is Joseph, is a person who's been doing it that requires a lot of training, necessarily, and that work is done, what I don't really understand is with priority to what level of skill is required. Like, for instance, I need to go into the one of the cemeteries, like North cemetery, and look at a few priority to and see what's involved. But yeah, the level of percentage completion at this point is, is really not, not acceptable. And, you know, something, something does need to change. And I guess that, I think that, and I probably need to have that conversation with Rachel in the next 30 days so we can report back. And I think we need to get some sort of level of comfort, or more discomfort, as to whether they're going to be able to to do the work or want to do the work. Unknown: How much do they favor? Bradford Carver: Well, I think it was 237,000 I think is the total amount that they would be paid if they did all the work and they've done 30% of the work. I don't think that means 30% of the dollars, because the priority one, priority two and priority three have different dollar values attached to it. Okay, I don't remember the exact amount we paid today, but, but the bulk of the contract funds are still there. So yeah,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: in October, we're meeting on the eighth, so hopefully you'll have some we'll have talked to them by the eighth. Bradford Carver: Yeah, I Well, I don't think we have, I hope so. Yeah, yeah, we have to and just get a sense from Rachel as to what, what they're willing or able to do, you know, we know Josh has been ill, but, but I think that he's been, he's been doing his best time fell, has been doing quite a bit of work this summer, not miss, just not on our Katherine Gardner-Wescott: stuff. Well, so is it because he needs to be closer to home that? Bradford Carver: Oh, I don't want to necessarily speculate, but I will throw out there that Rachel did acknowledge that in other work they're doing, they're being paid quite a bit more per headstone than what we are Paying
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: for them. Did they decide what been taken so this is not what I was hoping for. Okay, so we are going on to the house black bread. Bradford Carver: House black there's two items on that. One is the list that I've been accumulating of the all the plaques that have been given out. I need to follow up with Alyssa. She said she was going to look through her files again to see if I have she has the gap there, a gap of plaques were given out between about 2002 1020 I just don't have the full information. It's not in the folders. It's not anything I've seen Alyssa said she might have, but I need to follow up with her, and I will do that. And interestingly, in the past 30 days, we now have four applications for house players on pepperton, on Main Street training field road is actually just a replacement plaque. It's one that's already there. They want to replace them. And then 73 East plain, which, Kay, and I've been discussing it. I guess that's more than 30 days, but we have four applications, and now, which is, which is good? Yeah. So I'm following up with each of those people for additional back backup International.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: For the the one that just wants to buy a new one to replace their old one, that one that could go ahead Bradford Carver: or do, yeah, I assume that if they just want to replace it, there's no issue. It's already been vetted. It's, I actually, it's actually on the list we have. So I was just going to tell that person, if they're interested, they can pay $75 and I'll get the, get the plat Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and ask them if we borrow this Bradford Carver: plan. Yes, that would, I could add. That would be a good Yes, yep, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: yeah, because they can put. We had an order it and have it Bradford Carver: in time for us to follow. Yep, the guy who makes the plaques, he turns them around in one or two days. They're actually quite great work. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So, okay, any of the Unknown: rules, what are the rules? Bradford Carver: Well, that's one. That's the second thing on the agenda. The guidelines to get a flat. They're they're very generally stated. If you look on the website, age significance, historical events, something like that, there's three or four items. So they're quite, quite big. And then the application itself, really, all it is is just the name and address of the the building. It doesn't have any any additional requested information. I went and I looked at the websites of several other towns, Sudbury, Concord, Bedford, what their applications were like. Concord is actually pretty good, because not only does it ask for the name and address, that sort of thing. They also ask of the of the four items of significance, historical age, that sort of thing. Why are you applying? What is the basis of the the request? And it's just that, you know, sentence or two. But I think that would be helpful to add. And then I also think significantly, what it asks for is photocopies of any documents, such as deeds or anything else establishing, say, the age of the house. Because with every one of these applications, I always have to go back to the people and say, Can you provide me with the documents? So if it was in the application, I'm willing to go back and revise our application for you guys take a look at to request that information, it would just say several steps to request that in that information. So if you like, I can revise ours and at the next meeting and give you an idea of what I think should begin. So what? Well, I was going to say, but I think the case other point and to hear the man is, do our guidelines need to be changed? Or what should be our guidelines, or what should be the prerequisites for, for getting, getting a plaque? Unknown: No, years and years ago, I don't know your role would know her this, but we had when at least escola, I think, was chair, we had a discussion about the ages houses had to be. And I distinctly remember something about 75 years. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That was when we were doing the demolition delay. Unknown: That was before your time. Yeah, Bradford Carver: I think the plaques are 75 200 years. It's something it is 75 or 100 years. I think it's what it does say on the website, one of those two.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So what I just handed Brad was a folder that I um, outlines the program and tells you what you have to do. And if, as you said here, it tells you, where do I find the house, historic house information, and it talks about South bill, says County Registry of these and this will be the responsibility of the applicant. It says so right on here, it gives makes them understand that there's a little bit of work to it and so forth. And we want a copy of all their documents. Doesn't have to be their originals, so that when we can put it in the file for further information, or somebody comes along and says, who was at number one, Harrison Road, and what information do you have on it? We can pull out the documents rather than reinventing the wheel and researching it again that somebody else has already researched it. This tells you how to to apply. It tells you where to place the marker. It tells you what a that's Unknown: interesting because we weren't, we weren't giving guidelines on that. Bradford Carver: Yeah, this is, this is what K just handed it's much more detailed. And what's our website firm. This is Unknown: much more detail. Are we going to stick with that or? Well, that's Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what we're here to talk about. And the other thing is, I was talking to Elisa, and I said, I remember that there was, just before she left, there was a house that, like 75% of it, had been remodeled very contemporary, and there was just two walls that were of the age of the house that they wanted a plaque for. And there was a lot of discussion here as to whether or not they should get a plaque. Well, it was finally decided that yes, they could get a plaque, but it had to be put on the walls for one or two one of the walls that was actually the age of the plaque. I said it was rather than on the newer portion. And even with that, she didn't feel comfortable giving them a plaque. So I think we need to determine how much of a house needs to be retained before we say, well, you remodeled it out of its age. So, I mean, it's only fair to to the applicant to give these kinds of guidelines so that they don't waste their time doing a lot of research or something, and they don't have to. Unknown: Where do we get those? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: This was in the it's historic commission. Historical Commission Office. Can we just copy them? Well, no, I don't think that everything for one thing, it says it's $40 of black. It's way Unknown: outdated. Can we copy that paper? Way outdated? What I Bradford Carver: suggest was I revise the application form, and I can include some of this in terminology is good. And I can even put something in the application. It says that says, if your house has been remodeled in any way, explain, you know, percentage something, I can come up with the language so that, so that, if that's an issue, we will know upfront and not have to keep going back and forth with Right, exactly. And I know which house you're talking about. You're talking about the house on Lincoln Road, Unknown: but Well, if you get those printed out, I would like to have one. Bradford Carver: Well, what I was suggesting was I'll prepare a proposed application that can go on the website for everybody take a look at and if it's acceptable, then we'll, we'll replace the one that's currently there and put the new application in.
Unknown: So would it be sufficient if somebody sends you a living, you know, instead of to the research, like, oh, here are examples of my, you know the history about my house. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: We want the documentation. Unknown: I guess it depends on how we plan. You're wanting them to, like, download everything and send it. I mean, that seems Katherine Gardner-Wescott: no they could say that it's in book 10, page 55 at the south little sex deed of Registry of Deeds. They don't have Unknown: to print it out, okay, but probably it's on macro source. You know, if Katherine Gardner-Wescott: it's already on macros, then a lot of their work has already been done for them. So they can just refer us to Macros, right? But if it's a house that hasn't been done before, we need to know where the deeds they found, the information and so forth to prove their points, Unknown: but the deed ownership is not necessarily their point, like it would be. Oh, here's an article on the architect that designed my house, or, I mean, I don't know, well, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that's a document. That's what I'm talking about. A document doesn't have to be a deed document, yeah. Unknown: But so it wouldn't be, mean, this stuff is all now in the No longer would you go back through the deeds to the original owners? Is right? No, no, I know. But like in our an article about an architect isn't going to be it's going to be in the cloud. Well, so it's going to be like, be Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or how, but things don't last forever. I know these think they do, but they don't last for everything. What do you mean? Well, say they give us a link, and we go to that link and the link is broken. The link Unknown: is, oh, would they say? Okay, Architectural Digest, you know, 1972 August, 1972 order. Bradford Carver: Most of the time it's, it's a The question is the age of the house, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And who owned it, and Bradford Carver: who owned it originally is, that's what's on plaque? Is the original?
Unknown: Yes, slash, Bradford Carver: yeah, right. And usually that can can be derived from the deed, but not always, because the deeds can be confusing as well. But the deed is a good place to Unknown: start. But these are really more Colonial Era houses. You're talking I think 75 Bradford Carver: to 100 years. So Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you can do things over 1800 Bradford Carver: house so it's actually more reasonable, which means it should be easy, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? Should Unknown: be absolutely, yeah, that's why I was thinking Architects like the mid century modern ones would be more unlikely to be written up somewhere, yeah. Bradford Carver: But again, if you're, if you're basing, if you're basing the application on the age of the house, that should be key, okay, if it's historical significance, like a Gropius house or something like that, and or Sears, Sears, or something like Unknown: that, that'd Bradford Carver: be a difference. Okay, okay. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But most of the women. We get requests for for the age of the house. On the age of the house, okay, which you say 75 to 100 Bradford Carver: has been the I think that's, I have looked at the website, but I think it's 75 400 Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I can't remember what. So that means Mid Century Modern is coming up on, yeah, yeah, which the town is filled with, yeah. So, yeah. So then the question becomes, do we depend just on age, or does it have to be age and something special about the house, which I know other towns depend on, they have to be something unique about the house, the architecture or the builder or person who lived in the house. Because when you hit the 1950s this was Boomtown here in Wayland in 1950s and 60s. So do we need to narrow that down Bradford Carver: or make it? Make it 125 I mean, it's it. It really is, because, as you are bringing in a lot of new housing stock, yeah. And should that Unknown: well, also, I have a question about that being for some of those people might not want to black on their house, but if they did, would they really want this, stylistically the type of plaque that we make? Would they want that be appropriate? Yes. Would they want, you know, maybe they'd want a very much more modern looking, contemporary, contemporary, looking flat. And would we offer a different to another style of black for starting in like 1950 and forward? If or something, I mean, I don't, I don't know. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I will tell you in working in the assessor's office between 1910 and 1930 there are so many sub developments, so many sub developments, that they had their own book of sub development people so and you might remind them that online, it's the assessors records, and they can go through that, and that tells Whether there's a house on the property or not, but anyway, that makes a difference too. So there you go. So we will leave this in your hand and see what Thank you. Archeology, we have any reports or information Unknown: archeology? Well, today we had the end of Mary antes volunteering for us in our lab. So she she had trouble writing, and so she looked into what nothing could be done. So she felt it was better to finish up, and she's so busy on the June 50th committee anyway, but so that's just something that happened, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and to which we all want to say thank you to Mary Ann, thank you so appreciated all her time. And we're Unknown: back to lunch, and she did say she still needs to follow up with you, or I can let you know where she left off. She'll email you. Yeah, I know Margaret. Margaret said that woman handwriting was hard to read, and so she thought she should just stop doing it. So she's a very nice lady, and we appreciated having her in the lab.
The other thing is behind the pain estate, what used to be the pain estate, between that and the river. SBT owns the field, and there was a plan to go through that field and tell it down to eight inches. And so I've talked to SBT, and the first contractor that's going to do it can't do it, so they're looking for another contractor, and I want to go and walk that field, because I think it's probably archeologically sensitive, but I didn't want to go myself, so this young woman in SVT who I talked to, and she said she'd go walking with me. So we might do that, but we gotta find out if it's when, it's till, and then we can look for some evidence. So that's the most exciting thing. I haven't heard a thing from ConCom about the firm farm property, so, and I don't expect to hear from it unless I go fuck it. Well. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I. Going to say, You better go and ask. Yeah, they're just across the hall. Unknown: So otherwise, Rick is still working on the Castle Hill, Castle Hill site, and I've been helping Margaret with the media project, and that's been fun, because we going through the old photographs, and I can tell her who they are, and we've looked at some of the slides that Karen Lang Thorn had taken, and some of them are from Glover farm in Framingham. So I've been talking to the Framingham History Center about that, because I want to know more about Glover farm, because I remember a lot of the old avocational archeologists used to talk about going to Glover farm, and they all used to go and pick Katherine Gardner-Wescott: up artifacts. Where is the location of Glover's farm? Unknown: Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out, I think it's in South Framingham, not far from Lake Cochituate. In one of the books I looked Katherine Gardner-Wescott: at in South Framingham, pardon me, South Framingham, or north? For me and Unknown: no, I think it south, south, at least if it's by Lake Cochituate. On the map, it looked like it was south, but maybe, yeah, wrong. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, you know, the Glover property was in Cochituate. Yeah, two like Cochituate was in Cochituate. Well, Glover property that because she and her husband brought over the first printing press, she and her husband brought over the first printing press to the colonies. He died in route. So she was given property in Cochituate, next to dunsters property. Unknown: And that's fascinating. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So the printing press was put into Harvard and Dunster and Glover eventually married, but her children by her first husband inherited the land when she died, not Dunster or his family, but if you look on the town website maps, you will find a map, historical map showing the outline of the Glover property. Unknown: I saw that in a book that we had in our library in the office, so, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but it's on online, on the town web page, in the maps, okay, and you can see, I think it's the very last of several maps, and it shows where Glover's property was, where dunster's property was, and where Jenny, Jennifer, Jenny, Jenny's property was. Unknown: Well, the avocational seems to talk to me about Mrs. Glover and her Katherine Gardner-Wescott: father, right? Well, I don't think Mrs. Glover actually came and lived on that farm. So maybe a different Mrs. Glover, I Unknown: don't know. So Mrs. Glover, that they knew? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, no. Well, if they knew her, then it was different, because I'm talking 17, 1600 Unknown: Oh, this is not modern Mrs. Glover, this is they knew it was the historic forever bar, and so they used to refer to what is Mrs. Glover, it may have been her children, right? Then they would have had different names. Yeah, her son's wife. You know, the people I knew would tell me better. No, I know, yeah. I'm just, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, I'm just saying there's 200 years difference there, yes, so I don't need maybe a different Glover then. So I'm still Unknown: trying to do some research.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else Unknown: we're making headway on the Castle Hill material and Margaret's putting a lot more of it in the computer. Now, I just heard I tried to call Duncan Lucci a couple of days ago, and I talked to Deborah Cox, and you had talked to her too, and I asked, I had asked for him, and she came on the line, and she said he's not in today, and she said he hasn't been feeling too tough, which worries me, because he's got he he's the principal investigator on Sand Hill, so saying a prayer for Jack and yes, get whatever he's got. So I'll have to wait and see. So I'll keep up with that as much as I can.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else. Unknown: Well, can you think of something that I've forgotten? No, I don't think so. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Alright, so it is railroad and rail trail. Richard Conard: The only thing I have to report is that the vinyl company, all type, has been paid, mentioned at our last meeting. We haven't been paid yet. We haven't paid sardown. Anything else to report. We
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: want to talk about the rail trail.
Richard Conard: Not much to report on signs the where the Carol hopes the graphic artist should be back now, but I have not heard anything. I know whether Bonnie has been in contact with or not about some of the issues that are included in last month's Katherine Gardner-Wescott: minutes. Just send you, I think she sent Richard Conard: an email to us about a possible vote at select board meeting to select a contractor for the installation of the pads and the signs, but I haven't heard back as to whether that has been scheduled for the next select board meeting. Apparently, the bids have Tom and they've selected a bit last I heard there were some questions about whether that company what would the type of font could be used when the company that would be made to fabricate the signs, if It's a company that arrow folks has not dealt with that might be some issues, but I don't know new details. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I heard from Bonnie and Tom Fay is double checking, but he thinks we're on this schedule for the 15th of September for signage and and this will, I hope, excite you. The DCR has changed the number of signs that will be printed up, and have removed two of the signs, which will eventually be printed and put on Tom property. But then there are two signs that they have contracted with a bidder to create, but they need only 11 signs instead of 13 signs. So on September 15, if people are available to come and support this at the Select Board meeting, it would be important to show numbers there. They are going to ask the Select Board, since the payment has already been secured by a vendor, and the town has already agreed to pay that amount of money. Would they allow a Historical Commission to put to make two of their signs that they are hoping to make, which could be two in Dudley woods and one in Dudley woods and one in Castle, castle gate road and and use that money to actually create the signs that would mean installation would be our responsibility, and in the way the budget is going right now. It looks like installation wouldn't be immediate, but we would have the signs to put out there are, and that's the last that was. I was told it's not a done deal. It has to be approved by the Select Board, although I understand that there are members as a Select Board that have heard, already heard this proposal or and are in favor of it. And that's why we need people there to support a positive vote now. And I had a question for you, was it castle gate that we didn't have enough money to create a sign?
Ann Gordon: You know, I would have to go back and refresh my memory, but I think it was. Yes, I think we have enough money for castle gate. My memory is but I could be wrong, but we didn't have enough for the two signs at Dudley woods that we wanted to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: do. We did, did not. I'm sorry it was noisy here Ann Gordon: that I think we did not have enough for two signs. But we also knew that we couldn't use the pot of money for castle gate. If there's any left over, we can't use it in Dudley. So I think that was part of the problem too, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? We had a hope to marry the two, but in rereading the rules and so forth. We have to leave it open, I think for meetings. Sherry Ann, I think it has to be, has to be open. For meetings, you can pop it far away, yeah, Unknown: conversation of thought. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I read that that we could not marry the two pots together in order to have enough money. Yeah, so knowing that would help us decide which two signs we would have this company do for us. Okay, if it passes, I mean, it would be nice if we came and said we have two signs in Dudley woods that we'd like to have done, or we have a sign it wherever we want to put it. Ann Gordon: Yeah, I think, yeah. I mean, off the top of my head, I'd say that makes more sense. It's the two Dudley wood signs,
two extra signs, and we have two signs we want to make. You know, it's a little, it's a it's a good fit. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It is a good fit. And it's both for the town. It's both historical, and it's already, money has already been approved for it, and the contract, according to Bonnie, has already been signed. So it makes sense to go ahead and do that, and then we can put together some images for those signs and so forth that we can now, I don't know how much money would be set aside for Carol's graphic designs on that. I know we want her to do that.
Ann Gordon: Well, I'm, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: we have to get the money, though, Ann Gordon: right. And I also, you know, I'm, I don't know where the graphic standards are for the railroad, the rail trail signs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I don't think, I think we agreed at the last meeting that we weren't going to necessarily follow their guidelines. Ann Gordon: We didn't agree to that. We agreed that Abby and Mike don't need to necessarily follow their guidelines in the sign they're planning for stones bridge. But I did not understand that we decided we as a commission, don't need to follow their Katherine Gardner-Wescott: suggestion. Actually, I thought it was yours. No, Ann Gordon: I meant specifically for Abby and Mike, because they were, they were working on the sign they were, you know, ready to get going. And I said, I don't think it makes sense for you to wait and, you know, for these standards to be settled, but I think we should, if we can. I just think it's it would be best if Wayland had a look and feel that was consistent across all of our interpretive signage. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I agree with you on that. However, I don't agree with these outline that the DCR is offering because it's too restrictive, and they limit on texts, and they limit they want you to write it as for a sixth grade level. And they will, Ann Gordon: I think every, I think all public signage is that's, that's a pretty typical standard. Is a sixth grade level is, would it be possible for the rest of us to see the standards, or the design template, or something that would give us a little sense of what they're suggesting? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The lot of things, it things that I've just heard. What about you, Rick, that, I mean, I Bonnie says to me, but I don't have anything in writing. Richard Conard: If I received the scandals, it was so long ago that I don't remember what they were in detail, I have to look Katherine Gardner-Wescott: to see if, but they've been changed. It seems to me that a couple times changed, a couple of times. Sherry Ann, you've been there when Bonnie's talked Unknown: also, no and Ann Gordon: have you got drafts of the rail trail signs Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you want to hear what Sherry Unknown: Anne said? DCR, apparently has gotten much more. Restricted in what they want on the signs for the grants right now, as far as the number of pictures, as far as the what is in the script, and so forth and so on it. Ann Gordon: Have you got drafts of those signs yet? Have you seen anything? Unknown: No, I have not, but I don't attend all of the meetings for the for the real care signs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Now every time, Bonnie sends something out, then she comes back later and said, No, they've rejected this or they don't want that. So no, we haven't really seen a finalized version. We're not keeping anything from anybody. We just, we don't know either. Ann Gordon: Yeah, it's, it sounds like it all we hear Katherine Gardner-Wescott: is what we're told. And it's so far, it's always been negative. It's always, they don't want this. They don't want that, this kind of font. First they wanted 10th grade level. Now they want sixth grade level. Unknown: Things restricted on the rich colors can dawn they on the signs, right?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So that's why I thought, I thought you were suggesting for us that we didn't have to necessarily follow DCR, that we would be the leaders of what Wayland signs would look like. Well, I we do. Ann Gordon: I don't feel like we need to adhere to DCR standards in other signs, because it's not a DCR property other than, you know, the rail trail. But I think they should, I think we should be informed in our design by what they've done. You know, what colors are they using? What font are they using? What how are they laying it out? I think at least we ought to know that before we create other signs, because we may not want to adhere to all their standards. We may want more words. We may want more pictures or fewer pictures. We may want to change some of the details, but I just continue to feel like the overall look and feel should be connected, so that it feels com, you know, comprehensive and coordinated. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I thought that was one of many reasons why we wanted Carol hopes to do the designing, because she will have worked with them on this, and she will have a feel of what the font and so on and so forth, but yet she can be creative by what we want on it, so that it is not glaringly different, like a pink background with purple lettering or something like that. Ann Gordon: But yes, I agree she's the perfect person to do it, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right and but what I'm saying is, with all the money that we're spending on posters and speakers and so forth, this may not be the year that we have enough money to pay Carol, we may have enough to start started, and then when July comes around next year, we can continue it, or whatever. But I'm just watching the budget, because it's $1,000 and we're already spending three or $400 already. Ann Gordon: So I guess I'm confused about the but what you're talking about the budget, because we already have funding for these signs, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but we don't have funding for the graphic. Well, you're right, and you're right, maybe the money that we have we can spend towards the graphic. Person, I understand what you're saying now. Thank you for clarifying that, and that makes a lot of sense. I have forgotten about that, Ann Gordon: but it does seem like we need to see what happens at this meeting on the 15th, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: absolutely, because change that you're talking about pie in the sky at this point, but I wanted you to be aware of it so that you could come to the meeting. Look at the agenda before the 15. See if it is on the agenda. If it is on the agenda, then we need to show up and show our support for them doing that. And then then we can take the money that CPA, because we don't have to wait on that and talk to Carol about the designing and how much it would cost. Can give us an estimate on that, and we can take it from there. Does that sound good? Yep, right. Okay. Then the one last thing is the request that came in last night from who was it? The lady that's Kristen Lipson, she sent a request. She's in the process of purchasing 21 Cochituate Road, old Collins market building with a goal of converting it into two boutique cafe in bistro called townhouse. The name honors the property origins as the town's first town building. Tom really referred to as the townhouse in the 1800s because the property is zoned business a the project requires a special use permit from the Zoning Board of Appeals at last night zba hearing, the members expressed interest in the proposal, but continue the hearing to allow more time to review the bylaws, particularly as they relate to parking relief. My vision is to celebrate and preserve the building's historical significance while breathing fresh life into a true town. Landmark townhouse would not only serve as a gathering place for the residents, but also strengthen the vibrancy of the neighborhood. Nearby businesses and residents have expressed strong enthusiasm for the project, and I have had the pleasure of sharing my vision with your chair. No, this is wrong chair. Kay, but anyway, who is supportive as well to help the CBA appreciate the broader community value of this project, I would be grateful for letters of support from the Commission and individual members. Your voices as stewards of Wayland history would carry particular weight in underscoring the importance of ensuing this building, once again, serves as a pillar of the community, I've attached an overview of my plans for your reference, and I understand this may be on your agenda at today's meeting. Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions. I would be delighted to provide any additional details. Thank you very much for your consideration and for your ongoing efforts to preserve and celebrate waylands history, I will tell you that there were several neighbors, Mary and other people like Gretchen, Schuler, marjor Basson, the library, and they were either represented there or had letters of support, as well as the historical society through Scarlet. And so the question then became, would the Historical Commission also support it? Questions, comments, Ann Gordon: I'm sorry, Kay, I couldn't quite follow what you were reading at the beginning, what is her plan? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She is turning the balance market building into a a what she calls a boutique cafe. And, I
Unknown: mean, I think it's a great idea. I don't know how, how we would support it or not supported. I mean, it's within the historic district. It is, it is, and they have letter written, a letter, so, yeah, it's, it's staying within the confines of the rules of the historic district. But I don't see our role Katherine Gardner-Wescott: in it well. I think that she is saying that she is trying to keep the property as historic as possible, and that we support the what do I how do I want to say this? We support the fact that she wants to keep the building historic in appearance and so forth. That's about the only thing that we can support. Unknown: Yeah. Well, Ann Gordon: one of the things that, one of the things that strikes me about it, is that that building, in the in the years that I've lived in Wayland, that building has been inaccessible to the public. It's just a historic facade, but it was the market, and before that, it was the library. And so I like that. She her vision is to create a community space in that building again. So I I feel I like that. Unknown: I love the idea. I just don't understand exactly since, since, since it's really the historic district Commission's don't domain. I mean, I we could say we support the spirit of the idea, but I don't, I don't, I guess I just don't see our role in it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I. Again, I think it's she is hoping that the historical aspect is something that we would support, that that's our ability. Yeah, I don't see the historic aspect well, as she said, she wants to celebrate and preserve the building's historical significance while breathing fresh life into a tree town landmark. It serves as a gathering place for residents and strengths, the vibrancy of the neighborhood and so forth. People can also send letters individually saying, I really like the idea of a bistro cafe, plus the fact that she's trying to keep it as historically, yeah, possible, but she's asking the commission if they would just support her vision of keeping it historical. And since we cover the whole town, we don't exclude the historic district, we could say that, Bradford Carver: yeah, my view is, I is that if the historic district commission is passed on that tells me that they're going to retain the historical facade and it's going to look the way it is, and maintain the integrity of the building like Andrew Madison, I think it's a great idea. I'd love to see a cafe, frankly, as a business model. I'm not sure it's going to work, but, yeah, just a location, but, but in terms of, in terms of, from a historical perspective, right? It's an integrated what Unknown: was the original purpose of Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that building? It was the town building, or the town hall. It was the first non Meeting House town hall. So it was like a separation of the church and government, okay, because Unknown: I remember, and it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: had the library in the first basement, and the first floor was the was the library, the Tom clerk and so forth, was upstairs. Unknown: And then Academy, 10 years for two years High School. That was the high school in town, yeah, and it was housed in that building. That's like about 1840 and 40 to 42 Katherine Gardner-Wescott: was that a private high school or public high school, private, private high school.
Unknown: It was a grocery store Katherine Gardner-Wescott: when we moved here, and then it eventually became Collins market, you're absolutely right. And then the most recent, the real estate office that was in there, was purchased by someone who grew up in the town, and also wanted to keep the historical aspect of it the biggest problem the outside, from the outside right? Or changed? Yeah, they've changed the inside, but people previous to them had changed the inside. So for sale. Now it's not for sale. She bought it. Unknown: Oh, she bought it. Okay, so why did they put it up for sale? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They didn't, actually, they didn't. They wanted to rent out space that they were not using. And she said, I don't want to rent it. I want to buy it, and you can rent from me. And that's what happens. Unknown: Okay, that's interesting. She's pretty enterprising. She is. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She's very much a go getter, no doubt about it. Unknown: Well, we could use a little piece for our town.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But the question is, do we want to write a letter of support? You can all write letters of support individually, on your own is town residents, but will it can commission vote to write a letter of support for keeping the building historic, historic, I will tell you last night, after the CBA meeting, she caught me as I was leaving the house. She came up and Paul, remember Paul, or guest, to have a, what do you call those things of boards that fold outboard, tri fold boards, and he had done an architectural plan of it. He had photographs of all the original beams in the basement, and they were there with their cameras, just clipping away, taking pictures of the whole thing. And her architect was with her, so they're obviously interested in keeping it historical. Ann Gordon: Hey, what's this woman's name? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Her name is Kristen. Lipson, l, i, p, s o, n,
Bradford Carver: and the way spelled the first name is k, i, r, s, t, y, N, Ann Gordon: oh, thank you. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have picked that spelling. No, that's really i r, s, t, y, n, okay, well, I'll go out on a limb and say I would be in favor of our writing a letter of support based on the fact that we trust the historic district commission to manage the compliance with historic standards. And in my opinion, I like that. Her vision is to make it a community space once again, which I think is a sort of throwback to its history, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and it just will say an aside is that she's going to put a patio in the back so people will have accessibility all around the building, including the back. So I agree with Dan. So are you seconding second? All right? Any other further discussion? Let's take a vote and yes. Amanda, yes. Brad, yes. Jerry. Ann, yes. Tanya, I'm still thinking about okay. Richard Conard: Rick, yes, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: okay, yes. And would you like to abstain? No, I think it's a good idea. So are you voting? Yeah, I thought, yes, yes. Unknown: I just hope she follows through on what she says.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She sold out. A lot of people didn't answer to it. She doesn't, because a lot of people wrote letters of support. Any anything else that has not in the last 48 hours been brought to our attention. Anything more to say, This is your last chance for today, our next meeting. It'll be, I believe, the eighth of Unknown: October, oops,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and let's see eight o'clock. I mean, October 8 at Unknown: one o'clock. What's the day? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: October 8. October 8, the second Wednesday of the month, is when we tend to be and so put it on your agendas, yeah, Unknown: if you have room.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Thank you, Anne for again, leaving your vacation time and staying with us is another long Unknown: meeting, not posting. What first minutes? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, yeah, well, she knows that. What was it the March or April minutes were missing. Ann Gordon: May well we didn't meet in April, so there are no minutes for April. The main minutes, I have posted them. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, you have okay, you should be there. Yeah, Richard Conard: okay. And if you want to start listing the documents that were passed out at the meetings in the minutes, the article that I passed out today was on Well, Sherman's bridge was from the Boston Sunday globe, June 30, 1991
article on timber bridge to be built to replace Sherman's bridge.
Amanda Ciaccio: Okay, talk to you Richard Conard: about what's been that was a handout, a good one, right? Thank you. So thank you. It was in our files. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So thank you all for coming and staying all this length of time, I appreciate that, and we are closing the meeting you.
pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in person and via remote means, in accordance with the applicable law, this meeting may be recorded which will be made available to the public on WayCAM as soon after the meeting as is practical when required by law or allowed by the chair. The persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so by in person attendance or by assessing a meeting remotely, as noted above, we request public comment to be limited to two minutes per person. Note items may not be discussed in order, listed as all topics are subject to deliberation and vote. So thank you all for coming and Lewis, Richard Conard: do we need to introduce ourselves? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Because I was just going to say we want to start. And Anne, I'm going to start with you, since you're remote Ann Gordon: Ann Gordon Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and Amanda, Amanda Ciaccio: Amanda Ciaccio, Richard Conard: Rick Conard, Tanya Largy: Tanya Largy, Sherry Anne Bryant: Sherry Ann Bryant, Bradford Carver: Brad Carver Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and Kay Gardner-Westcott, thank you very much for all coming together on such a nice day. We're going to start with public comment. Dave, do you have anything that you want to say? Doug, I mean, I'm sorry.
Okay, so let's review the minutes and take a look. Yes, how do I tell that somebody from outside wants to make a comment? Jailyn Bratica: They would raise their hand, but no one is attended. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, good. Thank you. Jailyn Bratica: Possible to I can see Katherine Gardner-Wescott: maybe Amanda, if you move to this end of the table. Jailyn Bratica: I'm sorry our TV was broken, so we've yet to install the new one. Sorry. Unknown: Hasn't bothered them, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I'm sorry, Unknown: so I can turn it back Jailyn Bratica: here, maybe
Unknown: it doesn't bother them.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that there was, is there one typo? I think Unknown: there are a couple. I did hear from Rick who had a few corrections to make. I can tell you what those are. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that would be a good idea. Unknown: Okay, the first one is on page two, under guests Abigail Shute and Mike Faia the Stones Bridge section, and I had misremembered or misheard what Rick said he had photos of the hurricane of 55 not 38 so it now reads, has some black and white photos of the hurricane of 55 which damaged the bridge and caused it to be closed. First, and then another change was just a typo in the on the following page at the near, near the bottom, WHC representative for CPC, there was a letter for in the word preservation didn't belong there, and the another one from Rick under Rail Rest posts on the following page, under the railroad section in the first sentence, to add the word a before railroad museum so it reads, found out that a railroad museum in New Hampshire. And I think that's all I got from Rick
see the archeology with that sound of Bill starlo. But he mentioned something about archeology you might see that you can. Didn't hear that to support this room, I'm sorry the camera name is great like that. Is it a voice? It's this,
Seattle. What I wanted to mention that we've been asked to put that notes up at the end of our minutes that we have materials which are shown at the meeting, and Mike and Abby brought the blueprints or maps for us.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That was someone. No, it was Richard Conard: Brian. Brian. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Brian from housing, Unknown: yes, okay, and so it needs to be noted that they brought those for us to accept and store, right? Ann Gordon: You know, this is the difficult thing about participating remotely because I didn't see them. I didn't Yeah, yeah, well, so I'm happy to add that if you tell me what to say
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the if you look at the Select Board meeting minutes, you'll see they give a long list of documents that had been sent to the members and perhaps discussed, but they never talk about what the documents were or so them. They just list them, and then I assume that you would have to go to the board to find out exactly what those documents were. But in the when, when I took the test again for the members, for being a member, being sworn in, in that it talks about minutes in open meeting laws we had to do, and it talks about minutes and saying that they should be listed at the bottom of the minutes. So that is something that I thought we should start doing. And I, I guess I informed Sherry Ann, but I hadn't gotten around to informing you. And I apologize, but if I think you were sworn in again this year too, so you, you will have to take the Open Meeting tutorial, and it'll tell you in that Unknown: like she wanted, would like to know about Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the word, right? So he brought the plan PLA and plan for 130 is it? 132 Commonwealth, 131 3130 Commonwealth Avenue, I mean Road in in Wayland, which shows the house and the property and the blueprints were for. Was it for the Cochituate school? Richard Conard: No, yeah. Cochituate schools, alterations, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? So relational plans, changes to Cochituate school blueprints. Ann Gordon: Now, did he bring those Cochituate school blueprints because it was germane to something we talked about in the meeting? Or did he bring them Katherine Gardner-Wescott: to give them to you. He just brought them to the meeting to give to the Historical Commission, right? So is that but, but we did look at them. Unknown: We did look at them at the end of the meeting, Ann Gordon: in the meet, during the meeting, Unknown: no, at the end of the meeting, he thought, Ann Gordon: after the meeting. I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: mean, yeah, so we're storing Yes? He just so this is Unknown: to safeguard them. Ann Gordon: Yeah, so I guess I need to find out what the details are about how to do this, because that doesn't seem to me a document that was discussed in the meeting. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It wasn't discussed in the meeting. He just brought them to the meeting to ask us to store the in our office, in our math files. Ann Gordon: Well, I could certainly add that to the minutes.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And I think I sent you something about changes also. Ann Gordon: Oh, I didn't it was that recent Katherine Gardner-Wescott: here last night. Mike, did you have a comment about this? Ann Gordon: I'm sorry I didn't check my email today. Okay, so if you sent it in the last few hours, I haven't seen it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well last night, but the basically was a typo that you've already mentioned, and also when there was a article about my writing up a bill to send a Cultural Council, and the response from Rick was not to do it. And. And I wrote in my email to you that probably from your vantage point, you see him shake his head no and say, leave it alone. And shake his hand say, Don't do it. Ann Gordon: So, okay. Well, so is that all is, is that in your email for me to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, I think if you just put in the minutes that Rick declined.
Ann Gordon: Okay, so let's follow up. Let's see where that is in the minutes. If you wouldn't mind showing me what you mean, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't have the minutes. That's everything that I don't have a pleasure right now anyway. Ann Gordon: So does anybody have a copy of the minutes? Yeah, wait a minute. Unknown: Comment on something else, but you're the note about the display, the display in the entryway, yes, the figure 1985 come up for Rita Anderson's doing that because I believe she did that before in 1985 it Richard Conard: said 40 years, 40 years. Unknown: Well, I said about 40 years. But I didn't do the math quickly enough, because she actually did it after we started the Wayland archeology group. I can't remember the exact year, but it would have been in the late 70s instead of 1985 Ann Gordon: Well, I don't have the the date 1985 anywhere in the minutes. So it says 40 years ago. It says that the village was created by Rita Anderson about 40 years ago. Unknown: Yeah, that's what it says. That's what you probably said, Tanya. But you were just you were being very loose with your language, probably, and I'm having a lot of trouble hearing in this room. I can't really hear what people are Ann Gordon: saying. So Tanya, is it? Is it accurate to say that it's been there for about 40 years? Unknown: It's about 40 years, but it might have been what is 40 years? It's really longer, and it's been since the late 70s, years to say more than 40 years ago, probably 45 years ago. Ann Gordon: Now, how about if I say it's been there for more than 40 years? Unknown: I'm sorry I didn't make that it's actually been there for, yeah, more than probably the late 70s. Bradford Carver: So, Tanya, if it says it's been there for more than 40 years, is that? Is that okay? That's what I thought would be. Okay. Okay, so more than 40 years? Okay,
Ann Gordon: and then, Kay, you were, can we get back to your Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I'm trying to find the email that I sent you, because I think there was more than that also, okay. Ann Gordon: I'm sorry I didn't check my email today. I'm finding it. There's typo. Rick declined the submitting of a bill for his work and funding for the rap Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that was shortly after that. So what you're Ann Gordon: doing? I should. I should. Unknown: Or Janice, I mean,
Richard Conard: okay, that's what I was doing. Okay,
Ann Gordon: let's see if we can find that in the minutes, so that I'd get this right
Unknown: end of rail trail and railroad Yes, last paragraph. Ann Gordon: Last paragraph. Unknown: That's what we're referring to.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, thank you. And who declined and he declined.
Ann Gordon: I'm sorry, I'm not finding it. Can you say that again? Where is it? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: If you look under Rail Trail and rail road? Yes. Second paragraph. R Connor gave Oh, and
Ann Gordon: then do you want me to add after it says and they voted to approve? What do you want me to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: just say our Connor declined. The submission Unknown: at the end of this I got it,
Ann Gordon: declined, the reimbursement,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the submission of the invoice for invoice, thank you. That's what I was looking for. Ann Gordon: Okay?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And then I see, did you see under guest Abigail shoot in my car that you misspelled my name? Ann Gordon: There's an Yes, I'm sorry about that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And then on the RFP for the vital conservation of vital records by the town clerk's office, there was a sentence that says Kay Gardner Westcott has spoken with the town clerk Judy about her concerns for referring back to me. And actually, it was not my concerns. It was the historic commission concerns that were discussed at the previous meeting, or at that meeting on that day, actually. So I will clarify that it was not my concerns, it was the board's con, the commissioner's concerns. Unknown: Okay,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: got it Okay. Those are my comments.
Thank you, Rick. I
anything else do we have a motion? Bradford Carver: Move to accept the Meet the minutes. Second motion. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Any other discussion? All right, let's vote by voice in Yes, yes, absolutely. Amanda accepts the I'll say your name. Amanda, yes. Brad, yes. Cherianne, yes. Tanya, yes. Rick, yes. And K Yes, thank you. Unknown: Okay, what's next? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The Annual Report, and you all got a copy of what was sent out, and we have any comments?
Unknown: I make a motion, no comment.
Lots of comments. I had a question under Community Preservation Committee funding a display case for the towns, Boston hosting I thought it was still Wayland historical societies, Boston post cane, because the historical Bradford House Museum owns the cane. Ann Gordon: I see, okay, Unknown: so it should not be the word town, in my opinion, there as the owner of the cane, we are loaning the Wayland Historical Society and museum, and the museum is loaning the cane to the town for display,
Ann Gordon: right for
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and they like to be referred to as Wayland museum for society, right?
Ann Gordon: Okay, Unknown: that sentence about the display case for the town's Boston first Ann Gordon: pain got it. Unknown: And then I wondered if somewhere we should have that we do continue to monitor the preservation restriction at 105 playing road that I didn't see it in what you had written for the annual report. So my suggestion would be that we add that, that we that's we do, that we're supposed to do that every year. So by the way, aren't we supposed to follow up on the church, on the school house, too?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: You mean on the original High School, on those? I don't know if that's a deed restriction, when plain road is a deed restriction, which requires us to go all we do have. I don't think that was a deed restriction.
I made my comments to you on my email to. You, if you pull up your document, okay? And in the email, Richard Conard: I just had a couple comments under stones bridge that was really a facilities department project, and we worked with them and supporting the project, but they're the ones that did the work. I just want to make sure that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: we did the applications to the CPC for the payments and so forth. That's why we're involved in monitoring what was going on. And I believe that started in 2012 and I thought it would be interesting to note that it started in 2012 and it's finally finished in 2025 or 24 except for the landscaping, as noted
Unknown: Rick and Tanya they went to who are probably saw this through the entire Katherine Gardner-Wescott: arc of the well, it took section two completion, and it took three rounds of CPC funding to actually pay for it get it done.
Unknown: Okay, so if
Richard Conard: we're talking about a suggested illustrations, stones bridge, go on a cover of the town report, considering the amount of a nice picture of the completed bridge, right? And whether we include that in our section or try to advocate that it got on a cover of the Tom, well, I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: think that we could, you're talking about the images that I sent out, right? Maybe we could hold that discussion until we finish with the actual report, because we all know people like to look at images when they're flipping through the town report. That's what catches their eye to stop and read what the report says. Ann Gordon: So can you walk me through your comments? You talk, we're still on the stones bridge paragraph, I'm seeing your comments saying native plantings and flower boxes is the goal for future enhancements. It was already decided that facilities wanted that. Is that a change you want me to make? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Or are you just Yes, it is because I was reporting that that was their goal. They had already decided that's what they were going to do. We discussed the fact that, yes, the roots wouldn't get into the brickwork or stonework, and we all agreed with that. Ann Gordon: All right, so where it says are being considered, you're asking me to change that to something like will be implemented, or, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: yes, because it wasn't done in that year. So that's a goal or something in the future that they're planning on doing. Okay, I was just trying to make the distinction. Ann Gordon: There. Got it. Okay, all right, so I'm just going through your comments again, Kay, I'm sorry I didn't I didn't see this earlier. In under house plaques, a new vendor was selected, font and design approved. Was that this year Bradford Carver: I was going to say, is that this year, I think it was the previous year? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, okay, thank you. And disregard that. Okay. I was wondering, do we have a number of how many plaques we did this past year, or replacement? Bradford Carver: Maybe two. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So maybe we don't need to include that. I was just questioning whether or not we wanted to include that.
Unknown: I think she's
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: still looking at the comments and then, Ann Gordon: yeah, I am so under archeology, you are asking to add information that says discussion for the need of a new bylaw that prohibits The use of metal detectors or unauthorized digging on public land with the police chief. I'm sorry. Unknown: Get that the bylaw that you talked about should be already against the law. Don't have it so as far as I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: know, no what I'm asking is you. Discussed that with the police, Unknown: yes. So, Tanya, I thought it was already against the law. Tanya, what I thought it was already? Tanya, she's talking. I thought it was already against the law to use. I to use metal detectors on, on, oh, yes, it is okay. It is. So then, why do we why? Why are we making it a bylaw? I don't understand, not just monitors, but anybody who goes into public land for some purpose of finding things. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, the question Tanya is, is that already law, or didn't someone check by Unknown: law? It's a bylaw that the police chief suggested we should have. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay? So the police chief suggested it to you Unknown: did, okay, but, but it is already a law that they cannot use. It. Was he aware of the law? Yeah, well, he might be aware of the law, but I don't know if the public is so we could, we could advertise it, but what's the goal here? Did you want signage? I'm just I think signage would be good. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The question, though, is Ann Gordon: no, that's this is this has to be what we did last year. This is our report about what happened last year at our all of our meetings. So I think Kay is suggesting that we should include in the annual report that you had a conversation with the police chief about this issue. Unknown: What did you discuss with the police chief exactly because I'm I'm confused, because the police chief should know that, that it's a law, so I Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well that that's it, regardless, that the point was that she brought it up at the meeting that the police chief suggested that a bylaw against metal detectors be passed. Unknown: But, but wait, why would he say that if it's all the law that doesn't make sense, though, see, I don't know why the Basic Law is not well known, but so he suggested we needed a by law to make it illegal. That's what he told me, even Ann Gordon: though, can I suggest that? Excuse me? Unknown: Do acceptance, judgment, Ann Gordon: friends, can I suggest we we drop this for the annual report? It was not something we accomplished. It sounds like it was a conversation. And I don't think it belongs back to us. That's I don't think it belongs in our annual report. Unknown: Well, it would have to be by town meeting, I think, for Well, I Bradford Carver: think, I think what Anne is saying is, for purposes of the annual report, it was a discussion. It wasn't really something that was, was an in depth discussion that needs to go in in the annual report. Because what we're talking about now is what goes in the annual report, I can is saying, I agree with her. Let's just leave it out, because it's not really pertinent Unknown: to hear what you're saying. Well, also, yeah, it should be documented. I think if, if we're gonna, like you said, it needs to be an accomplishment of Katherine Gardner-Wescott: some All right, I agree with everyone. But the only reason I and let me just explain why I brought it up. Because if it was something we were going to follow up with, it needs to be shown that it was discussed. And the problem was we were made aware of the problem in that year, and we started talking about it. I have no problem with dropping it. I'm just saying that's why I thought it should be in in the annual report, because it was brought to our attention by Tanya, and there was some discussion about it then, as there is discussion about it now and but I'm happy to let it go. Bradford Carver: What I would recommend is we added to one of our future meetings as an agenda item, yeah, and then it's listed as an agenda item, we'll have a follow up discussion about it at that time. Unknown: It's not a done deal, yeah, right, yeah. So I would suggest we'll follow up with the police chief about it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, moving on.
Ann Gordon: All right, moving on. Unknown: I wanted to know when David retired from the arc biology lab, was that during the last year? Well, it wasn't an official retirement. I know it was him. Recognize it was actually over a year ago. It was actually 2020. 2024 may ish of 2024 okay? Because we've never done a recognition. No, it is, I know Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, we've never recognized individuals Unknown: before. But now we apparently are, well, we're Katherine Gardner-Wescott: changing power. Policy, which is something else that we think need to discuss, because we've always been a team before that supported each other, work together, and Anne recorded to me on the very first time she wrote the annual report for me for this board, that at least I had suggested that we do not use individual names, that we are a team, that we work together, we discuss things, and we come together for a decision. And therefore names are not mentioned. And this is a big change by listing people and saying what activities they they personally worked on. Okay? Unknown: Also, though the archeology lab is a little bit different than the Historical Richard Conard: Commission. Unknown: Well, that's part of it, yeah, but it's also it's kind of the volunteers in the lab are not necessarily on the permission, yeah, if we right, but, but my point was, if we were, if we were recognizing one person who married no Margaret and Margaret, oh, why Margaret leaving
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: personal comment about her, then saying, what a good job. Oh, I see. Unknown: We either don't we just, I'm thankful for senior tax write off participants I see, or now following we want to be sure we don't exclude people who I see. And David was, recognition is my point. Okay, Ann Gordon: so Kay, are you? Would you prefer that I take all the individual names out of this report and make it more generic as a as a commission accomplishment? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That's what you said to me the very first annual report that you wrote, and you have adhered to that up to this year, that everything is a team effort, and we are all working together for these goals, but this year, we changed the format. Ann Gordon: I apologize I wasn't paying strict attention. Apparently I didn't. I didn't quite realize that, so I'm happy to go through and take all the names out so that nobody gets individual mention.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: How do other people feel about it? I mean, I don't want to be making the only decision even I Unknown: think it's good. I think it's hard to be consistent. I mean, I think we should recognize David, not in the annual report, but separately,
Bradford Carver: I agree being generic, not specific, names make sense, okay? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Rick or Tanya. Do you have a comment on that I didn't hear right? Okay, then I guess we will ask you to rewrite it so that it's a team effort that we've all worked together on these projects, either by support or actual work.
Ann Gordon: Okie doke, I can do that.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Any other comments there?
Ann Gordon: I'm just looking at the rest of your comments. Kay,
you asked about the signal at the depot was it completed and placed on the depot it was in our 24 annual report as having been very near completion at the end of that fiscal year, so We have already included it in last year's report. Unknown: So Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but it wasn't up and working like it was this fiscal year. But the fiscal year we're talking about,
Ann Gordon: I think I can't tell you the exact date, but it was in last year's report. We can repeat it if you think that is what you want. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, Rick is thinking. He's trying to figure out whether Richard Conard: I think it was substantially completed last year. So okay, we did this year was the illumination was done,
but I wouldn't include it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Rick is saying if he doesn't feel that it should be included, even though more work was done on it this year by adding the illumination to it. So we'll let that go. It was just a question. Ann Gordon: Okay, and then I think you had one more comment
on the 2/50 anniversary planning. I had a sentence that says, WHC members serve on and support the Wayland road 250 organizing group. Your comment is what I guess you're asking. Why that's plural members, WHC members. You say you've never seen another WHC member at any of the meetings, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So we have a representative on the 250 would be sufficient that were represented on the 2/50 committee? Ann Gordon: Well, I've been doing all the publicity for all the events, so I'm not on the group, because I told Mary I would help her with publicity, but I didn't want to be on the committee, so I feel like I am contributing, but if you would rather keep it official, then you're right. You're the only one on the committee. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I'm happy to say that, you know, there's a reference. There are people working with the committee and on the committee, if you like, that's happy with that. Ann Gordon: Well, that's why I said serve on and support, because some of us, you serve on the committee, some of us support the work in other ways. If you feel like it's a stretch, I'm happy to change Katherine Gardner-Wescott: it. I'm happy to include everybody that's supporting as well. And that's it. Richard Conard: Tanya had a comment about the word the wording archeological demonstrations Unknown: exhibits would be better. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Did you hear that? Anne, Ann Gordon: well, where are we?
Richard Conard: Anniversary, the next to last line, instead of archeological demonstrations, okay, suggesting archeological exhibits, Unknown: okay to do anything, but we'll have our cases with the artifacts in Ann Gordon: it, and that's okay. That's great. Thank you, man, thank you. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Another very good job. I think she deserved the thank you again. Ann Gordon: I will send another draft to everyone after I make these changes. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Now, has everybody seen the images? Those are just some image images. We can choose other images to include in the report, and that's a separate email and that you may not have seen yet, but it should have come. I'm opening it now, okay.
Ann Gordon: I mean, also we don't know what Jailyn will use when she puts a report together, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or I Ann Gordon: don't know who puts it together, but we can submit what we want, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And those are just images that I had available to me last night. If other people have other images that they've taken during the year that they would like to to send to Ian and to all of us to see what one of them was. The for those of you that didn't see it, the woodwork, the workings of supporting the arch while they worked on it, so it shows all the wood. Call there Sharon, if you want to come around here and see this, so that both Amanda and and you can see it together. One of them is a completed arch, so you can see underneath the bridge, which a lot of people don't get to see. We're just one is of the 55 flood that caused the bridge to be the land on the other side to be removed. And we also have,
this is the 55 one, where you can see the flood waters going over the bridge. You can also see it connected to the Framingham side and and for cemetery cleanups, all I had were pictures of clean cemetery stones. That's all I had last night. And then, because we're supporting the 2/50 we could put a small 2/50 emblem next to that, or, you know, in that paragraph. Or whatever. But again, I Oh, I think there's one of Josh doing repair work in the cemetery, actually, right? And the others, the other two, were cleaner stones. But you may have photographs of activities that happen that are better. Bradford Carver: I thought the photographs were great. I i guess the 250th anniversary, or symbol, I thought, was probably the most appropriate, just because it's a 250th Yeah, I thought. I thought that the pictures were fabulous, but I thought, given it's a 250s I thought that probably made the most sense. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, it doesn't. We can have more than one picture. Oh, then put them all in. I
Bradford Carver: thought it was just a cover. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: No, okay, we can put in pictures. They may take some out, but we can put them in to the to our submission. Unknown: Maybe, can you indicate, like the your your Katherine Gardner-Wescott: preference? Do you have, do people have licenses, if the 250 is a Unknown: preference, for instance, and then right, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: if people feel that, because sand can always say we this is the order of our preference on the photographs. If we don't have room, we would like, really, like A, B or C to be included, Tower, Hill, signal Unknown: cabin should be in there. That's this Katherine Gardner-Wescott: year's. That's this year, not last year's. I know we're talking Unknown: fiscal year, right, right. Richard Conard: So it was completed before June 30 of this year. Oh, it was last Katherine Gardner-Wescott: fiscal year. Oh, well, I can send you pictures on that too, because we have, I have those pictures. So, yes, absolutely, because that's a wonderful thing. Oops. But I can do that later. Unknown: And even the restoration of the Tower Hill sign next to route 20 that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: was rebuilt, yes, and that's your photograph Unknown: that went in the newspaper, that was done even before the signal cabinet sometime during the year. Richard Conard: Oh, it wasn't our money when it was the insurance company of the vehicle. Unknown: No, it wasn't our money, but it was, I don't need to add her view, historical, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: wasn't it? Because you spoke up and asked Unknown: your efforts. Ann Gordon: So let me revisit something. Rick, you just said, Are you saying the Tower Hill signal cabinet was completed before the end of this fiscal year that we're reporting on? Richard Conard: Yeah, it was completed just before the end of June. It was here. So, oh, so for last fiscal year? Oh, actually, it was an accomplishment. Has done last, last school year. It's great. Ann Gordon: Oh, well, then I think we definitely need a photo of it, and I need to change the write up, because it says, what, what I I didn't think it had been completed before the end of the fiscal year. So I said that the work on the installation continued. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, I agree with you, and I thought it wasn't done till after the fiscal year. So I totally missed that myself. I
Ann Gordon: uh, so I should change it to say the installation on the cabinet was completed. Yes, okay.
Richard Conard: With the grant from the Cultural Council, yeah, Ann Gordon: yeah, that's already it's in the in the first sentence, Unknown: there are
Ann Gordon: oh, okay, so I think I know what to do, and I will send everybody a new draft once I make these changes.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, I just sent everybody a photograph of the Tower Hill wrap that was completed. So have you seen it that's completed? Yes, cool. Oh, my God, it's awesome. Isn't that awesome? I love. But cannot, terrific, Unknown: nicely done
picture,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: very cool that tells what year the mail was put in. Me. So thank you again, Ian for all that hard work and putting it while she's on vacation too, everybody it's supposed to be spending free time relaxing and enjoying herself. Okay, what's next? Unknown: Wow, I mean, and remember what it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: looks like after two scrubbings by Rick, that's what it looks like Unknown: scraping that whole
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: thing. Yes, I will just Yeah,
can we have a motion to accept the rewritten Annual Report without having to meet again? Unknown: So I moved second
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the annual report we're voting on whether not we want to accept the rewritten annual report when Ian finishes, so that we don't have to meet again because it's due at the end of this month, and that means another meeting this month, which I think we would all like to avoid. Looking for a vote, yeah, not yet. I'm asking for any discussion at this point. Unknown: Oh, I thought somebody said, so low. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: He said, So moved. It's been seconded now discussion by Robert's Rules of Order, and then I can have a vote. No discussion, all right, and we're going to have a vote. We're going to start with Anne Unknown: Yes. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Amanda Brad, yes. Sherry, Ann, yes. Tanya, oh, they can't hear you. Nod your head. You have to say yes. Thank you for Rick, yes. And Kay, yes. Unknown: Thank you. This. Go to the paper. What did this? Go to the paper? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It was sent to the paper, and they did not put Unknown: it in what you've got both you're friends with Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what's I know, and I sent them several different shots. So yes, let's see we're open. So I think what we'll do is, if people don't mind, we'll take Sherman bridge activity and move that forward in our meeting. And would you like to come sit closer and participate Doug? And Doug, I owe you an apology. I stated that I had sent a letter to several boards. As it turns out, that was for stone bridge, not German bridge. So I'm sorry for the misrepresentation. Sorry, Doug, do you want to move it? Yeah, you need to be around where people can see you need to move or no, he could sit right down here next to Brad.
Unknown: Uh, Sean I just talked to, the situation is necessarily service to read 20 year old words. So every 10 years or so, this German spreadsheet topic seems to pop up. And first I heard of it was the August 4 selections meeting where they discussed a cooperation agreement with sun dairy. July 15 was the DEP W meeting, where they gave some discussion to about 10 minutes. And I think the situation is basically that the detection has been found to be acceptable by the state.
Here file the public records request today, got the engineering reports of another engineering but I think what I was able to discern from the July 15 discussion of the DEP w is that the proposal and there actually may be a public forum on this October 1 and Sudbury for residents of both towns, but I think the issues are with the decking of the bridge itself and not the under structure. That the proposal will be to replace the decking at a total cost, about $1.6 million which would be split accordingly between the two pounds. I mean, I don't know if you want. Flooring gun in your house, but it's 100 foot long bridge that's one feet wide, so that's 2000 square feet. So do the math there, and on the cost, they mentioned that the July 15 meeting was that mentioned that it might be done using material called glulam. And glulam, I think, is a m and a wood composite. Tom Holder said something interesting that blue lamb is classed as an asphalt derivative. Sorry, say that again, blue lamb is classed as an asphalt derivative. I saw an email with Tom on Monday asking, why is it an asphalt derivative? I mean, I think what it was probably being, the stuff you see is, you know, engineered beams and stuff and glued together. And it's the blue asphalt, or, really, Tom asphalt, or whatever. And I think if, in fact, it's glue lamb, it looks like wood, it will hold up longer. That actually may be a reasonable option. I, for one, certainly would hate to see the historic wooden nature of the bridge pampered with, you know, we love our bridge. We love the six wooden events. Both an architect and Cliff Lewis himself told me that, you know, the under structures is very, very solid. It's also coated with creosote, which is going to prevent, you know, deterioration. I'm not sure you could coated with creosote over sun today. I think the current bridge was built around 1990 you know, been talking to folks in the neighborhood was going to about 50 people on the topic, you know, the old you know, you've heard it from the mechanics, from your surgeon, that, as long as the patient's open, is there anything else you should be doing? And I think this is an opportunity to look talk about, you know, maybe doing more for the passive recreation that happens around the bridge. I mean, it is a major place for numerous kayaks and the occasional bass boat to the launch. It's a great place for bird watching. You have basically two square miles of the central meadows and the National Wildlife Refuge visible from the bridge. It's a very frequently used road for bicyclists, especially with the new bike paths opening up in Sudbury, because it's the only way to cross the river that's not on a numbered state or federal highway for about eight miles in either direction, and it's great place for folks in the neighborhood and others to take a walk. So, you know, one of the things that's being discussed is, you know, would this be a good time to add a second pedestrian walkway on the south side of the bridge? Kind of common compliment the one already on the west side of the bridge. And an architect in the neighborhood hasn't even suggested, well, that would be great or be even greater. And he thinks it would be relatively easy to cancel you for this is to pump it out, you know, five or six feet further in the middle, and have some sort of picnic table or place for the community. Did you mention fishing? Fishing? Yeah, so I forgot to mention fishing. I mean, one of those heart warming things is when, you know, when I ride my bike down there on a Saturday, or even, you know, Wednesday after school, and there are a couple 10 year olds fishing out there. So same, bigger people than that doesn't warm my heart quite as much. But you're right. It's a great place to fish. And the other topic that brings up, of course, is that, yeah, it's a given all that passive recreation use, and given just the nature of Sherman's Bridge Road, it happens to be the hilliest Road in town, along with Woodbridge on an elevation change per mile basis. Should we do something about following the traffic through there? And you know, I know that Sudbury, as Lincoln Road, which joins the bridge, goes rather, we are hill. They have a 20 mile an hour speed limit there. I think you probably do a lot with a 20 or 15 mile an hour speed limit. I think you could do a lot with painting, you know, bringing bike lanes and making it clear the car should be going very slowly, and then, you know, deferring to pedestrians and cyclists through the stretch from the bridge right up to number 61 Sherman's bridge river so and the other thing that we've talked about for a long time is basically the town and or the National Wildlife Refuge owns that stretch from number one Sherman's Bridge Road down the bridge, where the existing walkway is on the west side of the bridge and should be there. A, either a formal or, shall we call it a, don't ask, don't tell footpath there for all to use. So, yeah, that's my understanding of the situation. And I think, I think the historic nature of the bridge certainly speaks for itself. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But so are you advocating for a wood platform to Unknown: go across the world. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I think everyone involved, who does not build or hire people to build roads for wants to see the historic nature, and part of that is a wood bridge with wood decking. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, at the Historical Society, they have an article, I believe, from 1987 talking about petition that everybody have to keep it right, a wood bridge. And it's from a historical point of view that would be the nature that I think that we, after discussion, could possibly support, yes, Unknown: yeah. I mean, I think first, well, first, you know what I think this happening so far, is that the wooden underpinnings of the bridge would stay wood, and then the question is, what's the best alternative to fix the decking? Which is what the state finds insufficient? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I guess that is what. And you would like the decking to stay wood? Oh, absolutely, yes. Okay, that's what I was really the Unknown: question is, I think one of the first questions is whether this blue Lane stuff looks like is wood and looks like wood. Richard Conard: How do you spell that? Is that? Unknown: When I Googled it, it's G, l, u, l, a, m, the Wikipedia article, I found out it said nothing about asphalt, um,
Richard Conard: pertaining to the historic nature of the bridge from I looked at our Historical Commission files this morning that Kate had had our volunteers pull out, and apparently the current structure dates from about 1991 or two. Yeah, the entire bridge was replaced as part of a timber bridge special funding program. Yes, so there are copies of these copy but the current Ridge is not in and of itself, historic, Unknown: right? Historically is the Richard Conard: predecessor bridges, and the fact that there was a bridge at that location does make it a historic site? Unknown: Yes, yeah. And the previous bridge, I believe, was built in 1925 renovated 1947 and from this article and other sources, it sounds like it was absolutely beyond repair. From the photos, it actually looked a lot less historic the current bridge. Richard Conard: The current bridge does look historic. Yes, because it's built to timber bridge. Yes, design the decking. I went out there and looked at it myself, and I can testify that I got some creosote. Yeah, crawling underneath the beams from underneath look like they're in great condition. Yeah, it's just the decking, and the vehicles rattle when they go over the decking, and I can see where the decking is in a ship. But, and it's curious that the bridge is not posted. I mean, from what I have seen, if it was a weight, you know, structural issue, it would be posted. So I assume there are fuel trucks. Unknown: And what would there? I'm glad you raised that, because I'm always wondering, here's this beautiful bridge. We have semi trucks going over all the time, especially from retail landscapes. Yeah, it has a couple of large places in sun Bernie. We've got five or six school busses a day going to Lincoln Sudbury High School each way. We have other big trucks that went by. And we've seen, you know, the road itself is not intended to be a major partial throw up there, and why has there never been like, you know, a common sense weight limit, like five Tom put on it while you were discussing the annual report and stuff, I was searching on Sherman's bridge. And, you know, Lewis at a Board of Public Works meeting a couple years ago asked the same question, and the response was, Well, that's, you know, ask the Select Board, because they're the road memberships, yeah, maybe that's something we should be asking the road commissioners for. Richard Conard: So from the material you sent out, I guess the bridge is expected every six months now, instead of two years, yes, yeah. So if you were able to obtain a copy of the inspection report today, Unknown: I've got it in your back. I just don't have to say I got it, yeah, Richard Conard: that would probably indicate the structural condition. They probably identified the deck as the as the issue is, I just Bradford Carver: took a quick glance right now, and I think that's what it's done back and make sure. So I so I understand where we are currently. The discussion is to put this glue Lane decking on which it looks like some sort of wood or wood composite, is that? But the current thinking is, I think so. I think that's what, that's what will be revealed on October 1 of the public forum, okay, and, and this is a joint effort between Sudbury and Wayland. It's had a cost of 1.6 that would be split between the two towns, with a little bit of an aspect, like the driving motion on that. And that is, I think the state has offered to pay for the cost of materials, which is around three or four. And do we know if Sudbury and or Wayland have actually allocated the money for that? Yet, on the July the take of the July 15 Board of Public Works meetings, Tom holder basically talked about, they have the latitude and the way that the funds are allocated, where they, you know, for instance, publish the list of streets expected to be repaid in the next fiscal year, to jump the key for this project, if it makes sense. Okay, yeah, because I was going to say, if the money hasn't been allocated, nothing's going to happen for a while, but, but I understand the same I think they feel they have a latitude for, you know, the six or $7,000 from cost Wayland to move it up, right? And I guess, because it's, it's a new bridge, meaning 1991 it's, it's built to historic standards, which is, which is great, I guess. I'm not sure if, and I certainly think I love the way it looks.
But do we, and we can certainly opine on what we would like to see happen. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we can, as historical commissioners in protection of the history of Wayland, we can certainly push for wood planking to go on a decking. And the second that's one thing. And the second thing, and especially when you were discussing adding another pedestrian walkway, is concerns about possible archeology disturbances there, because Castle Hill sensitive side, it's within a half a mile. And there are other sites that are also within half a mile of the radius. Plus, I would think the Sudbury Valley trustees would also be concerned about that as well, and so we would want to be involved in any digging that would be done. There wouldn't be any digging. Well, you have to put the posts in for Unknown: recording the architect, and you've seen the strength of thing. I think you just cantilever. The way that the existing walkways is cantilever on the other side, Bradford Carver: basically just putting some additional 45 degree angle posts on the bridge. I see nothing you do in the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: kitchen now, all right, I understand. So they would have to get as far as the bridge before they would have the pedestrian walkway Right, right, instead of building a platform at either end of the and having it as a separate I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. Unknown: Okay, Doug, can I ask you a question? Is that so there is no opportunity, no chance for us to retain what at this point? Um, it's pretty No, it's, it's, I think we're looking at a different type of board. That's what's being proposed. Yeah, that's being proposed. But, I mean, there's no opportunity for us to say we would like the state to consider changing the the types of vehicles allowed to cross and and the speed with which they cross Diana purview. I'm just asking, yeah, I think that's a stance that residents could take. Okay, I of course, would prefer number one to stick with wood right and then right. If we can't, if that is already off the table, then the next best thing is something that looks like what? But I, I just wanted to understand if that was on the table. So it should have the tape and, yeah, and you know, the question is, the complaints are, and the issues are, is that the rough cut was there and the bolts take a beating and get loose and pop up. The question is, would that still happen if school busses and track? Trailer, so don't go over Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, unfortunately, I don't know that we have much impact on the traffic or the speed limit, right? It goes over the bridge, but we can certainly advocate for wood planking and work with the Sudbury Historical Commission, which is pretty powerful in Sudbury, to support that idea, but I don't know that we, other than individuals who may or may not want to support but as a commission, I don't think that we have much say in the other Unknown: understood statement, right Katherine Gardner-Wescott: anybody else have questions or comments. So like in 1987 Yes, 1987 setting up a petition for neighbors and people who use the bridge. I was there looking at it also, and the first night that I read about the meeting, and I thought to myself, well, these cars are not going 20 miles an hour. They're not and they're coming from Sudbury. Most of them are from Sudbury and but even those that were headed to Sudbury, we're speeding right along. Yeah, it's interesting. Unknown: There's actually not much that much traffic on Sherman Road, except during morning rush hour, particular, especially it's work on those something we've got a stop sign a couple of years ago, there a fun fact is there are 200 tour cars a day going west on Sherman's Bridge Road, and east, there more people use to Avoid morning Katherine Gardner-Wescott: rush hour, but after to avoid route 20 and so forth, right? Unknown: And, of course, the complicating factor during the morning rush hour is you have a bunch of probably 7516 or 17 year olds driving to Lincoln Sudbury High School, one way, with folks held back through Boston. The other way. But if you mail those mailbox posts
Richard Conard: and stuff, Unknown: there's some model cars that use that as a bathroom, because Sunbury Central and 126 and especially, see a lot of them. And, you know, I think it's probably picked up a Watson squeeze and Google Maps data. Bradford Carver: Actually, I can tell you one of the reasons why there may be discrepancy, because Gleason language I live on, okay, is also a cut through, yes, but they have turn restrictions there during rush hour. Now, okay, they're probably directed on insurance, so there's some assuming there's some structural symmetry, yes, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right. Well, when I was there, it was late, it was around seven, and there were and I wasn't there very long. I'm long enough to walk across the bridge, we're back again, and go down and talk to a few kayakers, but there must have been a dozen cars that went both ways. So there was activity in the evening, other than rush hour, is Unknown: what I'm trying to say. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So it is a concern, and I have reached out to Chris Hager at Sudbury Historical Commission. I have yet to hear back from him about anything, but honestly, I was unaware of the October 1 meeting, and where is that going to be? Unknown: Oh, that's likely to be in Sudbury. In Sudbury, whispered, so Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I wrote down Sunbury, but I didn't know where. Yeah, so any other comments or questions Unknown: or didn't hear what you've said last day Katherine Gardner-Wescott: of the October meeting that will be a combination of Wayland and Sudbury to discuss the bridge is going to probably be held in Sudbury, so we have to keep an eye out to see what that is. And I said before that that I reached out to Chris Hager for to hear what his committee thought, and I have not heard back from him. On anything else you want to share. Unknown: No, I mean, I just, you know, obviously, any it's great that you're offering to work with the Sudbury Historical Commission and state the views of the Wayland mission. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Further stories in the post about this, Unknown: we see a screen to post about us and other other media. Yeah, it's, it's interesting things like the West weekly article popping up all the time and, and there is a, you know, it's interesting story. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It is. And we're here to try to keep it as historically accurate as possible. We can do that if it had sleeping in funding. But since it doesn't, Unknown: or you forgot the word yet, yeah,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you'll see. Okay. Thank you for coming in. I really appreciate that
Unknown: agenda.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So we're back to Wayland festival of help now. How many of you are familiar with Wayland festival that's going on on October 4? Jerry Ann, is it is kind of an outreach of a combination of multicultural festival and touch a truck merging together to honor the town in the community, the organizations in the town. And it's also an entertainment for lots of different organizations to come forward and show their particular, particular artistic skills. And so we have been invited to have a table there. This is an opportunity to show that there is a Historical Commission and what we do, it also helps us to help them understand that we're not the local the historic district or the historical society, that we are own entity. We're the only state approved legal entity for the town to preserve the history of the town, and what we do, how we do to do that. Now, of course, a lot of interest would be in the Native American artifacts that we have that we can display, and there should be some identification of what the article is and what it's used for, because not everybody here is familiar with Native American artifacts, but it is a very long day. It is almost nine hours. It doesn't mean that we can't leave early if we feel the traffic is down and we're exhausted because we are a small group of seven. But it also means that we have to share our time on October 4, and we have to be there. Not one person can be there all day. And it means maybe an hour and a half to two hours, depending on your ability to stay, I have asked for a table. They do not provide any covering from sun or wind or rain, so we would need something to help us with that, Unknown: especially to perfect our exhibits, protect all what our exhibits of artifacts. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yes, our artifacts. But I also want to show beyond the Native American that we also are interested in historic buildings and our flag program and things like that. So what I need is people to sign up for hours, and unlike Sherry Ann, I did not have a chance because I don't have a printer to print off a sign up sheet. But I will be sending one out, and I expect all of us to participate the best we can, and I know that I will be covering two different tables at two different times of the day, so I'm not real sure that I can give you more than two hours or three hours at the Most, but and the most important part is the setting up, which starts at 930 in the morning, and then the taking down and returning items to the lab into the office, which means not just dumping them there for the next time somebody comes in, but actually putting them away, so that when the lab opens and the office opens again, it's presentable and people can work in there. I also think that we need to talk about how to present some of these items, because presenting things, we can have a plaque of folder to hand out we can have a plaque actually there. How do we show the interest in the historical buildings in town, not just houses, but buildings as well. And I understand you already have. Boxes of Native American artifacts that you can bring that you don't have to do anything for Unknown: that. You have several. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I need everybody's thoughts on this, because I certainly don't have the answers.
Bradford Carver: My immediate thought is that, first of all, it hasn't been terribly well advertised. I didn't know about it until you told told me about it, but, but I think you can have much people just kind of wandering around. And I think if you want to grab their attention, what you're probably going to need are like large, ultra sized photographs that would grab their attention. And what, what I'm thinking of are like the stones bridge, for example, the cemetery stone pictures that you have something that are all in Wayland, maybe a picture of one of the older houses in Wayland. But I think that you need three or four large polter size photographs that are going to draw people in and then you can talk to them, or perhaps have handouts and explain what, what we do, how we go about making those posters, I'm not Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and budgeting for it, right? Because we've had, we have speakers lined up that are going to take up most of our budget, because we're limited to $1,000 so this means budgeting for pictures at Staples or wherever that we decide to get them done and and how to set them up. You can't just leave them flat on the table, because nobody will notice them, and you need some sort of support for them, because otherwise the blow away and wind all things that we need to think about. But I like the idea of the pictures, because, like you say, we can't bring stone bridge there. We can't bring a house there, that kind of thing. Any creative ideas and your heart? Ann Gordon: Well, I was not clear on what you said about the budget. Is there money for us to pursue ideas like Brad's? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we have Dennis Picard. We have to pay for Yeah, we have the Native American speaker that Tanya is negotiating with to pay for. And did we think Francis Perkins? No, that's out of the 2/50 that's the 250 Well, if we do Francis Perkins in cooperation with the 2/50 we were thinking that there might be some funds left over for speakers so that the commission could also get credit for bringing Francis Perkins to this children, the high school children, her speaking there because she's more expensive to speak to them only because they have over 200 people. They said that would be in particular, would be in the audience to watch her, and our price goes up according to the size of her audience. But this is important, and it's something that we can use again later on. So we may say we just don't have the money for Francis Perkins. And so Bradford Carver: can I ask about Tom resources? I mean, we're a commission of the town. Does the town have, like tables, a table and a chair and that sort of thing that they can provide? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I asked for the Wayland festival people if they would supply the table and chairs. So I have not heard a negative on that, so I'm counting on that. But as they clearly said, we have no sun protection or winter rain production that totally is up to you to participate and take care of so and as far as I know, there's no funding pot of money in the town that would pay for any of the things that we've been talking about. Unknown: Well, Rick and I last Wednesday, went up to the recreation department to talk to them, and Peter reference with Francois, yeah, is who we spoke with Yes. And he said, Oh, we can always get new tables at no problem. But he didn't say anything about the overhead, though, so, but they are trying to bring a tag from the Museum of our national air. Of Egypt to this event. And I think there were some logistic problems trying to get that, you know. So he told us about that, and we were interested to hear that he would make sure that we would try to get a table so Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well we already have the table. We do. I mean, we have the site. She has not made the table plan, so to speak, like you do for a wedding of where everybody's going to be. Also, I have just a question. Do we want to be seated next? Should we ask to be seated next to the Historical Society? Or would you rather be in a location that was different, so that people would clearly see that we're two different organizations, and also history gets hit twice, instead of all in one spot, or you want to combine them together so that we make a bigger impact on history. I don't know which way you want to look at it, I guess so. I'm asking for opinions.
Unknown: I think in some ways, to be separate but close by would be good, but to be together would be also good. I think that way we could explain the difference between our organizations.
Bradford Carver: Is the historic district Commission also going to be there. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I have not heard that they are we, because we're an active group where the historic district is more an inclusive area that only affects a certain number of people, but whereas we affect the whole town, the society affects the whole town. That we've been asked to participate. Bradford Carver: My reaction would be that the two should be next to each other. Unknown: Okay, I had a complete opposite. I had an opposite thought. I thought we should be the complete opposite side of this face, Bradford Carver: but I get my i That was my first thought when Kay mentioned it. But then I thought, but people are going to go to the Historical Society, and then they're going to go to the Historical Commission, and somebody's going to say, Well, what do you guys do? What what you're going to say? What's the difference between you two? And for that reason, I thought just put them together, because they're going to ask the question, what? What's the difference between the two? Unknown: I do, I do think we have to avoid them going to only one, thinking that they're the same thing. Agree and and I think that that will, that will have to do with how we decorate each part. Decorate each one, I guess Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what we present, right? Yeah, I kind of agree with separation, because one is town supported or town active, and the other is a 501, 3c independent. They are asking for memberships. We don't ask for memberships. We could create a pickup handout that says, What's the difference, if we wanted to go that far, but it just seems to me that while history is the same interest. We have two different sets of goals here, one for the commission in the historical society, for theirs. So that was my reaction, but I can see your point that.
But will they be? Will we have more of an opportunity to explain the difference if they come up and say, Well, wait a minute, I just saw the society over there. What do you do versus I'm at the society table and I'm walking away because you're just more history. Bradford Carver: No, it's good. Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree with anything that the two of you said, but we Unknown: don't, but he's but you're right. We don't want, we don't want to have a colonial image of a house that happens skip our table because they already saw a colonial house with the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: other it's a our house doesn't have to be colonial because it doesn't have to be a colonial Unknown: No, no. I know that's what I'm saying. I think it's all about how we present, present it, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? So Unknown: unfortunately, it's with the black soap. So the plaques are a very cool feature that we can profile and promote. Yeah, right, but, but you know that, so I almost that's something i. That might lead them to think, you know, with the homes, I don't know that that's, that's the only, that's the confusing part. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The The other thing is, I hate to say this, because I know we're using up a lot of time, but we're not meeting again, unless you want to meet again, just on this topic. But decisions have to be made today, because the fourth comes before our next meeting, I think, doesn't it? Yes, yeah, so decisions have to be made today, although I will send out sign up sheets to everybody later. But we have to decide what we're going to promote, what we're going to show, and how much money we can spend out of our budget. Unknown: Yeah, that's the question. If we start at 930 when is the official end Katherine Gardner-Wescott: at 636? Um, seven. Now whether they stop at six and say the last half hours for packing up, I don't know. I haven't heard that one way or the other. I've just been told 930 set up. Unknown: 630 10 o'clock opening, according to the town site, it's 10 to six, and this the official hours, okay? And so set up is before that breakdown is after, right? And you have Tom 10 to 610. To six. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Also, you have to realize that I don't know where they're going to tell you to park. So how, how heavy, or what you bring, you probably have to carry to your site. My understanding is the tables are set up along Andrew Avenue. That's the road with the little bumps in it. There will be a parade that will go down Andrew Avenue, and so people will be walking in this, probably in the streets as well as the sidewalk, so which means there may be people behind you and people in front of you. You can't leave the table unattended, because they're expecting 2000 people, based, I think, on the multicultural and the touch of truck, uh, people that have come before, forget the tech. Well, if the tank comes, but I mean, the point is, they're expecting over 2000 people to come, which means that we really, and nobody should say, Oh, I don't know anything about Native American artifacts. Or I don't know what you do is you respond and say, Oh, if you're really interested, give me your email and I'll have somebody who does know answer you, or you can divert them to some other topic that you do know something about. So even if you feel uncomfortable saying, I really don't know anything about this, because, for whatever reason, we still need your presence there, feel free to invite a spouse or family members or a friend to come and sit with you. If you don't want to sit alone at the table, because we're such a small group, I can't guarantee that there will be two of us there the whole time. Unknown: So and I asked another question, just where along Andrew Avenue are things areas where we're going to set up? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I have absolutely no idea, because she has not set up the table yet. From what my understanding, she's in the process of doing that, and that's why I wanted to put in a request of whether we wanted to be next to the historical society or a distance away from the Historical Society. Just what is the she, who's running a friend, Pollock, is doing the tables. Bradford Carver: It seems to me that Tom Green, you know, the the banks of grass, no, on Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the avenue. We're on the Avenue, the stage is set up for the entertainment. There at the base is going to be the porta potties and the where the performers will get ready to go on to the stage, so that's totally filled behind Ace Hardware is going to be the touch of truck or tank area. Food trucks will be down at the COA. And the Andrew Avenue would be the thoroughfare between all these venues. Bradford Carver: Well, that would tell me, then they're going to close off the traffic on Andrews and the tables would be set up on the road. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It that could be. But again, you're going to have people in front of you, right Unknown: behind you, be on the side, through that through the tables. Bradford Carver: To be on the sidewalk, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I would think we would be on the sidewalk because of the parade going through, but that's first thing in the morning, and whether they'll say, Now, move on that. Move yourself down into the street or the people on the sidewalk. I'm not no. I've been informed. Yes. Ann Gordon: And Tanya, are you asking because you're worried about how you're going to get your artifacts to the site?
Unknown: Well, I'm not too worried about it. We can just put them in a Ann Gordon: car and drive them over, right? I think we can certainly drop things off close to where we're going to be. I think we can drop our things close to the site, and even if we can't park close. Yeah? So okay, you're looking for us each to sign up for maybe a two hour shift. Is that the bottom line? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Yeah, exactly. Well, there's seven of us. So if people take a minimum of 90 minutes, maybe some people will have to work a little bit longer than others. Or if you wanted to be generous, and do a two hour shift, that would be even better. And that would include, that does not really include the setup and take down. That's an added time that somebody would have to carry the stuff and put it on the table and carry it back and then unload it back here at Town Hall, or maybe keep it till Monday morning. I don't know if you can get in on the weekend back here at Town Hall, town building, Ann Gordon: yeah, I think that's, that's a good question. Well, I'm happy to sign up for a shift if you're going to send us a sign up sheet, yes, and it would be, I think it'd be nice for all of us if we overlap a little bit with each other, so that Absolutely, we're not just doing it by ourselves in terms of what to display. I really like Brad's idea of the large photos. And if we can rustle up a little bit of money from our budget to pay for that, I think it would be money well spent, because we could use them at other events. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So now I need to know what photographs that you want to I mean, if we want to print out a flyer application, that's money for printing that out, unless we can do that as a printer working in the lab. Do you know Bradford Carver: when a flat flyer application for flat, flat? Oh, well, that, well, we have the application that that's going to be on the agenda. I have suggestions on changing, okay, but that's just printing, you know, 100 applications. That's for 50
or 25 that's not hard. I can, I can do that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, so the handouts, Brad's going to take care of, for the plaques, Unknown: and have a list of once we decide on not qualifications, but guidelines for how you can choose a house to be flat, oh, to have at least four talking there. So those of us man and get questions, we've at least got something to look at, yep, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: which is the other big topic on the today's agenda. Okay, so black guidelines. What about choosing a house that to display? Unknown: See that's, I don't think we should, because I think that's, that's fairly confusing. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't think well at this, at this point in time, the plans are not to have any house display at the Historical Society. Unknown: But I think that they're just going to assume, if they see a historical home, they're going to assume that within Historical Commission, that it's, I think instead, that we we put either the bridge or we put either Sherman's bridge, since it's going to be in the news, or we put stones bridge, or we put a projectile point. Or, I think, like the Bradford Carver: tower, build train tower. Bill Ann Gordon: perfect. I think that the train signal at the DEP Unknown: signal, yeah, or, or your noi tower, Hill cabinet, some, some, some success that we've had recently
that's a better Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, but the Commission also, and this is something else that will be brought up at a future. Meaning is Macris, which we all love to go to and find out about the history of the area and the house. We haven't done anything in that in a long time, and we really need to continue to research houses, especially in the Cochituate area. There's a lot been done in the north end of town, but very few done in the Cochituate town to be placed on the Macros. Macros is not a done deal. It's an ongoing project, and we have neglected to participate in that for a very long time. And it's time that we do maybe one house or two houses a year or something, but that's for later discussion. But what I'm trying to point out is the history of buildings in town, and it doesn't have to be a house. We could take a public building and we, we are people that are doing the history of it. We're the ones. Unknown: No, I can't get you and I, and I totally I understand what our mission is. I just don't want to confuse people upfront. That's all. But if you maybe it's just me. Oh no, no. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't want to put you on the spot. I'm just saying that. I'm trying to show that we have a diversity of history that we're interested in protecting, and I think we can discuss Unknown: that with people, and I think even if we have it on the table. But I think the big thing that draws people in should be something different. Well, I like, Bradford Carver: there's actually a blend of that. What you could do is going to have a photograph, have a photograph of a plaque on a house, say, an older house, zoom, kind of zoomed in on the on the plat, so you see it's an older house. You're not necessarily highlighting the house. You're highlighting the plan. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I don't know. Okay, maybe you could work on that, since I'm working on some of these other things, Bradford Carver: sure. Yeah, we have to work on the whole right photographs on the board. I'm not right that need, we need Ann Gordon: Brad, if you're if you're willing, I'll work with you on the photographs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, great. And, and what about the signage that we're planning on? I mean, people ought to know that we are putting out signs too, even though that hasn't actually happened yet, but we're working on it. Yeah. Ann Gordon: I mean, we don't have anything to show so nothing, you know, there's no photograph that we Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you have, you have the mansion in mock up kind of thing. Ann Gordon: I'm not in favor of that, because it's, it's just not a done deal, and it's something you know, that's been on our agenda for so long. I just, I feel uncomfortable that Katherine Gardner-Wescott: deal, but it is a thing that we have been working on for a very long time, and I have more information on that, which I will refer to after we finish this discussion, but just keep it in the back of your mind. I'm not going to forget something you don't want to do. Ann Gordon: Well, Brad and I will put our heads together and come up with a recommendation.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, do we have to meet again to come to a finalization that's why I'm trying to get final decisions today. Ann Gordon: Well, I don't think we can make final decisions in this meeting. I don't think we know enough about what photos we have access to. I feel like I have a good sense from the discussion that we're interested in, maybe a railroad subject matter like the Tower Hill signal or the,
I'm sorry, the Tower Hill signal cabinet, or the signal at the DEP, I think something like stones bridge or large structure in town, I personally would recommend a before and after cemetery stone, because that's a huge project. A lot of money we're spending from the town, and we should show people what they're getting for their money. Bradford Carver: And we have those pictures from Josh, yeah, we Ann Gordon: have a lot of pictures, and then maybe we do a close up of a plaque, as you suggested. Or maybe that's a smaller, you know, in a little Plexiglas frame standing next to the applications. That explains what the plaque program is, I don't think we everything needs to be in a, you know, big poster size photo.
Unknown: I would prefer to have a real plot as an example. Bradford Carver: That's more money, though. Price costs 70 bucks. We don't Unknown: have a good demo. One different, yeah. Bradford Carver: I have photographs of plaques that that we could blow up or make into there about the accurate size, but I don't have any
Unknown: accepted too Bradford Carver: just I can just take one off old houses, Unknown: a more recent one, and for us to show, Bradford Carver: actually, to that point we, in all seriousness, we have four applications. If we got one of them approved, I had to sign made before October 4. I'm sure the homeowner would say, yeah, we can borrow it for the Katherine Gardner-Wescott: What about the restoration one that wanted a new refresher plaque to replace the one they had. I would ask them if they put it on their house yet. If they haven't, maybe we could borrow Bradford Carver: theirs. Well, I guess that's what I'm saying. I haven't approved any of these yet. Oh, okay, but what I'm saying is, if we approve one or more of them, I could ask the homeowner, before it gets put on, can we just borrow the front I'm sure they'd say yes. I'm sure Katherine Gardner-Wescott: they were too Okay, so posters, and that's going to have, Unknown: I would suggest one of the posters to go with the pictures is to say Wayland Historical Commission. So you got a big name on our table? Yeah, I agree with that. I'd the tables going to be this thing or bigger Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or, I have not been told, Tanya, I have no information to give you. Oh, I could see Unknown: two or three artifacts. I wouldn't bring them all. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: You're going to have to be selected. What I would also suggest is on these photographs. Is this a collage that you're putting together? Are you suggesting doing an
Ann Gordon: I don't, I can't answer that. Brad and I will, Brad and I will make a recommendation. Bradford Carver: I guess the only thing I would say is they need. Each photograph needs to be large enough so that if you're 10 feet away, you can see it and say, That's interesting and walk up to it. As opposed to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what I was wondering about, was a handout that explained a little, not a lot, a little history, like on stones bridge or on the road, Tower Hill, or what was the other one that you were talking about? Oh, cemeteries, that, this is a CPA project that that we brought to the town and are supporting, and what's happening, just a few lines or something, so that, if, say, if I'm talking to somebody else, and somebody walks up and they're just looking at the pictures and then walk away, but there's some text that they can read. It can be either in a handout or underneath the picture, explaining so that they're engaged while the person behind the table is engaged with somebody else. Ann Gordon: Yeah, I understand. I can, I can do that.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Okay, all right. Unknown: Well, there is a paper in an whole publication about the beginning of the Wayland archeology group that Bobby Robinson had written. How we got started. And I don't remember how many pages it is, but we could make copies of that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I think that's too much, and I don't think people, they may pick it up, but then not really follow through reading on it, and we paid for the expense of printing it all up and so forth. So unless you can pair it down to a paragraph or so, you know that's of interest, but maybe you could probably Unknown: do it to one sheet.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But again, we're talking about cost of printing, cost of doing public a colored, I assume, colored photographs, plaques, posters. And I was thinking that we should have a small 250 logo on our table, because we are paying for or not? Yes, we're paying for Anne's doing the PR. Are you for the 2/50 Is that correct Anne to yes and and I have gotten speakers which will have the commission as a co sponsor for the 2/50 and so we want to show that we are participating in that as well. I don't think it has to be as big as perhaps what you're talking about, but it needs the Yeah, the image needs to be there so people know that that we're doing. Do that, anything else that people can think of, be sure that you bring your own drinks don't dehydrate.
Unknown: Do I have a tent? I don't have a tent Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or cover or a large umbrella that you can attach to a table. Unknown: Tom and I were talking about that the other night, and he we used to have one of those tar things, but I think we got rid of it a long time ago. So did I? I mean, I used to have a pop up, but for soccer. But I don't know where it is in the mood. I don't know, somewhere in the bother of my Facebook. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, even though you may not personally own one, maybe you have a friend who can ask and see if they know somebody who has one. I mean, we don't have to limit it just to seven. We can spread out the ask for help. But we're not above asking for help on things. So you know, I would follow up on that by Unknown: being able to rent one. They're expensive. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They are very expensive. Unknown: So Well, no, there are possible and expensive, Fonda and expansive Watkins, which you can buy, yeah, they're not that expensive to buy, but I think to rent would be at least. And Katherine Gardner-Wescott: also, if you buy the ones that are on legs, remember, you're on a sidewalk and a road or a road, there's no ground to stick the things into so that's another concern. Unknown: That's true. No pegs to go through the property, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? And I think they'd be Unknown: happy, and that's a problem. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So you will be something you have to put sandbags on to keep it upright, or whatever. But that's just things to be considered. That's why a table umbrella would be really ideal. If somebody has one of those, or knows somebody that has one, has visited somebody who had one, that anything you might be able to borrow any other questions that I can't answer on this.
Unknown: Who's going to ask another question? If we want some kind of little poster printed up, what can we do? I'm not My hands aren't good for printing out posters anymore. I don't think so. Is there an easy way that we can get that done? When you say posters, what do you still I mean something about the artifacts and, you know, just a little thing to put out so people can see, read about it.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Are you talking about folding paper in half and having something here or, well, you could put that on a computer and print it out, and then if I can Unknown: get my computer back, it's been in Cambridge for months,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but we do need some information about the artifacts, especially for those of us that are not as familiar with them, so we can read it and regurgitate it back to the public, so to speak. Unknown: Might have something in the office for you. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Might see what you've already got for labels and see what so choose carefully what you bring. Maybe you could just bring the things that have labels on them. Unknown: Well, I remember that the pieces of cardboard that Tom used to make, and he had that wonderful printing, and so he used to make some really nice things for exhibits. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And I would request, if it's at all possible, that you bring some artifacts that can be touched, that people can actually touch. Unknown: So we have one box like that, but I've got another box. Well, one box is over in the single way on exhibit. The artifacts are from the box, and then we have another one. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: People like to touch things. So if you if people like to touch things. So if we could bring something that the kids can pick up, or the parents can pick up, we have Unknown: a box like that. It says, Please touch Richard Conard: it's a white cardboard box. It's a cardboard Unknown: box about this, Fay, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: okay, and so you just have to pay attention that nobody walks off with something. Bradford Carver: But that would be my concern, because if you have, and I don't mean in a disparate way, to catch it all, but I could see a kid picking up a. An artifact and putting in his Unknown: pocket that happened in the third grade, and quite bit, right? Bradford Carver: So I'm a little concerned about, well, you have that many people walking by, things that you can pick up and touch, because they may not, they may be touched into fear. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, if you put the artifacts back here where you're sitting, rather than out front unattended, I think. And you could say here, would you like to hold this and see how heavy it is, or would you like to feel how the shape? And then you're right there with your hand ready to take it back. I think people are pretty good about doing I'm I'm letting a lot more people touch things in the historical society than has previously been allowed because you just do, you want to touch it. You want to feel what the materials like, you want to feel, how heavy things are, are interested. And I'm assuming that these are things that, if they did disappear, that it's not a major portion of Unknown: the well, no, but it's most of our heavy stuff. I don't know. We have no provenience on it. We don't know where they came from. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, then if that disappears, that's not such a big thing compared. Unknown: We don't have another and I could always come to this side of the table and stand there where you can, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or any of us can, but I agree, I understand. It's a real do i or don't I situation absolutely anything else on this particular topic, because then we need to keep moving. You find Tom just playing Tom, oh, yeah, Can I just jump again to the 2/50 anniversary. The 2/50 anniversary, we have engaged history at play to do Deborah Sampson, she will be doing in the books theater on January. Let me see if I didn't What? No calendar. Save it 10. I want to send it 10s too, but I want to just double check
in January, oh, goodness, it's not here. I thought it would be here. I believe it is January 11 at 2pm what is going on. Deborah Sampson, history of play. It'll be at the Volks theater. Yeah, certainly tell your friends to save the date, so to speak. The other one is April 10. We do not have a venue at this point, but it'll be Frances Perkins, so she's going to be involved. And
as I said before, we're hoping to, on the same day, have her do a special Unknown: presentation. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Thank you, presentation on for high school students, because she's an important people that they should be aware of. And the whole goal of the 2/50 is to be sure people understand that the liberties that were fought for 250 years ago are liberties that we still enjoy and that we are still pursuing. So will be the same day the yes for the high school and the yes she's seven o'clock for for an evening performance for the Tom and now High School is yet to be determined, and that's just for the students. Anything else on that to 50th? Unknown: Wait, sorry, what was the date? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Or 11th at 2pm and Unknown: folks, oh, the 7pm Katherine Gardner-Wescott: the 7pm is the Francis Perkins, April 10, which is a Friday night this coming September 21 Gretchen Schuler is doing a walk to the historic district archeology walk. So we want to architecture, architecture, architecture. Thank you. I'm sorry so many A's. Um. So please sign up for that so they know how many people there. They're going to have a small reception afterwards on the front lawn of the historical society with 1700 recipe cookies. So to have a curiosity about what they taste like or look Unknown: like, what date is that architectural Katherine Gardner-Wescott: wall? Uh, September 21 Unknown: Oh, I thought it was this Sunday. Oh, see. Okay, first. Ah, okay, that's why. What time of the day to two o'clock? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else on the 2/50 in case, this is just throwing this out. In case anybody's interested on the on the 20th of September, there is Apple Fest at the wayside inn, and we Historical Society has a table there and many activities. So if you have children or grandchildren you want to take there are a lot of things for them to do as well. And stop by and say hello to the Historical Society. Anything else on the 2/50 I think, at the moment, so let's go back to display the Tom building discussion. Has anybody come up with any ideas? And we are going to probably have to move the discussion the display pretty soon. We hear that the display in the town building, yes,
Richard Conard: we found the combination to the locks on cabinet in the archeology law we tried it out and so we can open case Unknown: bar, the Tom bar, fantastic. So can start to remove Katherine Gardner-Wescott: this. I think that you need to remove them sooner rather than later, because I'm sure they not happy that we're dragging our feet on this. They want it out.
Unknown: What they let us put it, some of it back in that would be put, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, we're in discussion about a possibility of a smaller case, so that Native American can be on display and keep in the forefront of people's minds. But that's just the discussion at this point. There's no Unknown: be nice if it could be on a table display, just that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So you would have to decide what artifacts that you would want to display. Unknown: I'm talking about the diorama. I'm
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: not going to hold my breath Unknown: already in No, yeah, that's not happening. I thought they haven't. I haven't heard they definitely don't want Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that. They definitely don't want that, pretty clear. Unknown: They definitely don't want the diagram. They don't Katherine Gardner-Wescott: understand it. I know they don't understand it. It's too bad, but they don't. And the whole point is that we have to find a new home that appreciates it and can be used Unknown: about the historical society
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: mentioned space.
Unknown: No, it's the big one? What's a possibility for asking that's a familiarity center. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Pretty, dim, dim. Unknown: Well, no, what if we talk to Julie? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: To who? Julie? Yeah, oh, Julie, feel free to talk to Julie about it. Why? Huh, to feel free to talk to Julie about it. Okay, I did to Unknown: the educational area of
the townhouse. Rooms are huge, and in the corner they could put it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: display again. Would you like to be in charge of that? That i will i I'm Unknown: happy to have covered in Plexiglas. The kids could look at it, sure.
But mean, they must do a unit. There's a mandatory unit on, on, you know, the native people of Massachusetts. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So, yeah, anybody who wants to talk to teachers or schools or anyone else but. I will tell you that when things are put away in schools, just from my experience, things are not carefully put away. Things are not necessarily, well, they don't have a storage either. That's the problem, yeah, so, Unknown: yeah, they just don't understand that. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And maybe there needs to be an explanation that goes along with it, that it points out the fishing weirs, the drying fish, the canoe that's being built that tied Tom leaf, and why the buildings are built the way they are, to keep the wind out and so forth and the cold and so forth. So I think it's needs more information to make people interested in it. The reason people are not interested in it here is because, like you said, they don't know because there's no explanation with it. That's part of the problem. They don't understand Unknown: it well, I can go around and talk to them, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but that doesn't help. When you get new staff. Doesn't help the public when they come in, they don't understand it. And that's the whole point is, it's not something that people get and it needs to be done. Okay? So we're going to remove the artifacts from the top portion of the display as soon as possible. Yeah, let's do that. And then you're going to talk to Julie about possible display of the native village. Unknown: Can we give her the case too? Because they don't want the case. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They don't want the case. I don't know. Have you looked Have you seen that? It's two parts. No, I haven't. Well, you stayed in the hallway when you go, Unknown: I obviously know how that opens up. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, we'll, we'll figure it out. Yeah, okay, anything else on that? Or can I move forward? Because I'm, I don't know, until the time of this village. Oh, no, I was looking for 10. Okay, 310 Well, we kind of already talked about the Sherman bridge activity. So how about cemetery information? Bradford Carver: Cemetery, we got the most recent requisition invoice. Very small amount, $1,300 the the activity is, is still way behind schedule. And if you can help me out with the percentages, I think that they're pretty much done with the the
Richard Conard: stuff, Bradford Carver: phase one stones, the one that are cleaning, and they're mainly done with the phase three stones, which are the ones that require the most amount of work, very little, if any, work has been done on on phase two. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Are you talking about cleaning or repairs? Bradford Carver: They actually did that called Fay. What are they called? Ann Gordon: You're back. You're backwards. Brad, the priority, priority one are the ones that need the most work, that need either to be reset or and those, I don't have the exact percentage, but a high percentage of those are done, and the cleaning is largely done, but I think the the overall percentage of work done is really the figure that we need to pay attention to, and that is 30% of the work is done, and that The summer has has been slow in terms of progress. At the end of June, they were 27% done. At the end of July, they were 29.9% done. And at the end of August, 30% done. So. I think Brad, I think we said this at our last meeting, and we need to schedule you, and I need to schedule another meeting with epic and really talk about what they see going forward in terms of their ability to do this work. The fellow that they hired this year has been doing all the cleaning, but he's not trained to do more than that yet, and Rachel said she doesn't want to, you know, put him on our work until she's confident that he can do it, which obviously, yeah, we feel that way too. I don't know what they're playing what what his training regimen looks like, how he's learning who's teaching him? Is he going to a program or a class? Us, or is it on the job training? I have a lot of questions. I'm sure you do too, Brad, and I think we need to connect with them and and have a conversation about it. Bradford Carver: All right, because priority one are the ones that require the most amount of work. And Josh, as Anne said, I think he's done most of most of that work, we can get an exact percentage of completion on that but those are the ones I think require the highest degree of skill. Three, which is cleaning, which is Joseph, is a person who's been doing it that requires a lot of training, necessarily, and that work is done, what I don't really understand is with priority to what level of skill is required. Like, for instance, I need to go into the one of the cemeteries, like North cemetery, and look at a few priority to and see what's involved. But yeah, the level of percentage completion at this point is, is really not, not acceptable. And, you know, something, something does need to change. And I guess that, I think that, and I probably need to have that conversation with Rachel in the next 30 days so we can report back. And I think we need to get some sort of level of comfort, or more discomfort, as to whether they're going to be able to to do the work or want to do the work. Unknown: How much do they favor? Bradford Carver: Well, I think it was 237,000 I think is the total amount that they would be paid if they did all the work and they've done 30% of the work. I don't think that means 30% of the dollars, because the priority one, priority two and priority three have different dollar values attached to it. Okay, I don't remember the exact amount we paid today, but, but the bulk of the contract funds are still there. So yeah,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: in October, we're meeting on the eighth, so hopefully you'll have some we'll have talked to them by the eighth. Bradford Carver: Yeah, I Well, I don't think we have, I hope so. Yeah, yeah, we have to and just get a sense from Rachel as to what, what they're willing or able to do, you know, we know Josh has been ill, but, but I think that he's been, he's been doing his best time fell, has been doing quite a bit of work this summer, not miss, just not on our Katherine Gardner-Wescott: stuff. Well, so is it because he needs to be closer to home that? Bradford Carver: Oh, I don't want to necessarily speculate, but I will throw out there that Rachel did acknowledge that in other work they're doing, they're being paid quite a bit more per headstone than what we are Paying
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: for them. Did they decide what been taken so this is not what I was hoping for. Okay, so we are going on to the house black bread. Bradford Carver: House black there's two items on that. One is the list that I've been accumulating of the all the plaques that have been given out. I need to follow up with Alyssa. She said she was going to look through her files again to see if I have she has the gap there, a gap of plaques were given out between about 2002 1020 I just don't have the full information. It's not in the folders. It's not anything I've seen Alyssa said she might have, but I need to follow up with her, and I will do that. And interestingly, in the past 30 days, we now have four applications for house players on pepperton, on Main Street training field road is actually just a replacement plaque. It's one that's already there. They want to replace them. And then 73 East plain, which, Kay, and I've been discussing it. I guess that's more than 30 days, but we have four applications, and now, which is, which is good? Yeah. So I'm following up with each of those people for additional back backup International.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: For the the one that just wants to buy a new one to replace their old one, that one that could go ahead Bradford Carver: or do, yeah, I assume that if they just want to replace it, there's no issue. It's already been vetted. It's, I actually, it's actually on the list we have. So I was just going to tell that person, if they're interested, they can pay $75 and I'll get the, get the plat Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and ask them if we borrow this Bradford Carver: plan. Yes, that would, I could add. That would be a good Yes, yep, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: yeah, because they can put. We had an order it and have it Bradford Carver: in time for us to follow. Yep, the guy who makes the plaques, he turns them around in one or two days. They're actually quite great work. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So, okay, any of the Unknown: rules, what are the rules? Bradford Carver: Well, that's one. That's the second thing on the agenda. The guidelines to get a flat. They're they're very generally stated. If you look on the website, age significance, historical events, something like that, there's three or four items. So they're quite, quite big. And then the application itself, really, all it is is just the name and address of the the building. It doesn't have any any additional requested information. I went and I looked at the websites of several other towns, Sudbury, Concord, Bedford, what their applications were like. Concord is actually pretty good, because not only does it ask for the name and address, that sort of thing. They also ask of the of the four items of significance, historical age, that sort of thing. Why are you applying? What is the basis of the the request? And it's just that, you know, sentence or two. But I think that would be helpful to add. And then I also think significantly, what it asks for is photocopies of any documents, such as deeds or anything else establishing, say, the age of the house. Because with every one of these applications, I always have to go back to the people and say, Can you provide me with the documents? So if it was in the application, I'm willing to go back and revise our application for you guys take a look at to request that information, it would just say several steps to request that in that information. So if you like, I can revise ours and at the next meeting and give you an idea of what I think should begin. So what? Well, I was going to say, but I think the case other point and to hear the man is, do our guidelines need to be changed? Or what should be our guidelines, or what should be the prerequisites for, for getting, getting a plaque? Unknown: No, years and years ago, I don't know your role would know her this, but we had when at least escola, I think, was chair, we had a discussion about the ages houses had to be. And I distinctly remember something about 75 years. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: That was when we were doing the demolition delay. Unknown: That was before your time. Yeah, Bradford Carver: I think the plaques are 75 200 years. It's something it is 75 or 100 years. I think it's what it does say on the website, one of those two.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So what I just handed Brad was a folder that I um, outlines the program and tells you what you have to do. And if, as you said here, it tells you, where do I find the house, historic house information, and it talks about South bill, says County Registry of these and this will be the responsibility of the applicant. It says so right on here, it gives makes them understand that there's a little bit of work to it and so forth. And we want a copy of all their documents. Doesn't have to be their originals, so that when we can put it in the file for further information, or somebody comes along and says, who was at number one, Harrison Road, and what information do you have on it? We can pull out the documents rather than reinventing the wheel and researching it again that somebody else has already researched it. This tells you how to to apply. It tells you where to place the marker. It tells you what a that's Unknown: interesting because we weren't, we weren't giving guidelines on that. Bradford Carver: Yeah, this is, this is what K just handed it's much more detailed. And what's our website firm. This is Unknown: much more detail. Are we going to stick with that or? Well, that's Katherine Gardner-Wescott: what we're here to talk about. And the other thing is, I was talking to Elisa, and I said, I remember that there was, just before she left, there was a house that, like 75% of it, had been remodeled very contemporary, and there was just two walls that were of the age of the house that they wanted a plaque for. And there was a lot of discussion here as to whether or not they should get a plaque. Well, it was finally decided that yes, they could get a plaque, but it had to be put on the walls for one or two one of the walls that was actually the age of the plaque. I said it was rather than on the newer portion. And even with that, she didn't feel comfortable giving them a plaque. So I think we need to determine how much of a house needs to be retained before we say, well, you remodeled it out of its age. So, I mean, it's only fair to to the applicant to give these kinds of guidelines so that they don't waste their time doing a lot of research or something, and they don't have to. Unknown: Where do we get those? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: This was in the it's historic commission. Historical Commission Office. Can we just copy them? Well, no, I don't think that everything for one thing, it says it's $40 of black. It's way Unknown: outdated. Can we copy that paper? Way outdated? What I Bradford Carver: suggest was I revise the application form, and I can include some of this in terminology is good. And I can even put something in the application. It says that says, if your house has been remodeled in any way, explain, you know, percentage something, I can come up with the language so that, so that, if that's an issue, we will know upfront and not have to keep going back and forth with Right, exactly. And I know which house you're talking about. You're talking about the house on Lincoln Road, Unknown: but Well, if you get those printed out, I would like to have one. Bradford Carver: Well, what I was suggesting was I'll prepare a proposed application that can go on the website for everybody take a look at and if it's acceptable, then we'll, we'll replace the one that's currently there and put the new application in.
Unknown: So would it be sufficient if somebody sends you a living, you know, instead of to the research, like, oh, here are examples of my, you know the history about my house. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: We want the documentation. Unknown: I guess it depends on how we plan. You're wanting them to, like, download everything and send it. I mean, that seems Katherine Gardner-Wescott: no they could say that it's in book 10, page 55 at the south little sex deed of Registry of Deeds. They don't have Unknown: to print it out, okay, but probably it's on macro source. You know, if Katherine Gardner-Wescott: it's already on macros, then a lot of their work has already been done for them. So they can just refer us to Macros, right? But if it's a house that hasn't been done before, we need to know where the deeds they found, the information and so forth to prove their points, Unknown: but the deed ownership is not necessarily their point, like it would be. Oh, here's an article on the architect that designed my house, or, I mean, I don't know, well, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that's a document. That's what I'm talking about. A document doesn't have to be a deed document, yeah. Unknown: But so it wouldn't be, mean, this stuff is all now in the No longer would you go back through the deeds to the original owners? Is right? No, no, I know. But like in our an article about an architect isn't going to be it's going to be in the cloud. Well, so it's going to be like, be Katherine Gardner-Wescott: or how, but things don't last forever. I know these think they do, but they don't last for everything. What do you mean? Well, say they give us a link, and we go to that link and the link is broken. The link Unknown: is, oh, would they say? Okay, Architectural Digest, you know, 1972 August, 1972 order. Bradford Carver: Most of the time it's, it's a The question is the age of the house, right? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: And who owned it, and Bradford Carver: who owned it originally is, that's what's on plaque? Is the original?
Unknown: Yes, slash, Bradford Carver: yeah, right. And usually that can can be derived from the deed, but not always, because the deeds can be confusing as well. But the deed is a good place to Unknown: start. But these are really more Colonial Era houses. You're talking I think 75 Bradford Carver: to 100 years. So Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you can do things over 1800 Bradford Carver: house so it's actually more reasonable, which means it should be easy, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? Should Unknown: be absolutely, yeah, that's why I was thinking Architects like the mid century modern ones would be more unlikely to be written up somewhere, yeah. Bradford Carver: But again, if you're, if you're basing, if you're basing the application on the age of the house, that should be key, okay, if it's historical significance, like a Gropius house or something like that, and or Sears, Sears, or something like Unknown: that, that'd Bradford Carver: be a difference. Okay, okay. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But most of the women. We get requests for for the age of the house. On the age of the house, okay, which you say 75 to 100 Bradford Carver: has been the I think that's, I have looked at the website, but I think it's 75 400 Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I can't remember what. So that means Mid Century Modern is coming up on, yeah, yeah, which the town is filled with, yeah. So, yeah. So then the question becomes, do we depend just on age, or does it have to be age and something special about the house, which I know other towns depend on, they have to be something unique about the house, the architecture or the builder or person who lived in the house. Because when you hit the 1950s this was Boomtown here in Wayland in 1950s and 60s. So do we need to narrow that down Bradford Carver: or make it? Make it 125 I mean, it's it. It really is, because, as you are bringing in a lot of new housing stock, yeah. And should that Unknown: well, also, I have a question about that being for some of those people might not want to black on their house, but if they did, would they really want this, stylistically the type of plaque that we make? Would they want that be appropriate? Yes. Would they want, you know, maybe they'd want a very much more modern looking, contemporary, contemporary, looking flat. And would we offer a different to another style of black for starting in like 1950 and forward? If or something, I mean, I don't, I don't know. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I will tell you in working in the assessor's office between 1910 and 1930 there are so many sub developments, so many sub developments, that they had their own book of sub development people so and you might remind them that online, it's the assessors records, and they can go through that, and that tells Whether there's a house on the property or not, but anyway, that makes a difference too. So there you go. So we will leave this in your hand and see what Thank you. Archeology, we have any reports or information Unknown: archeology? Well, today we had the end of Mary antes volunteering for us in our lab. So she she had trouble writing, and so she looked into what nothing could be done. So she felt it was better to finish up, and she's so busy on the June 50th committee anyway, but so that's just something that happened, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and to which we all want to say thank you to Mary Ann, thank you so appreciated all her time. And we're Unknown: back to lunch, and she did say she still needs to follow up with you, or I can let you know where she left off. She'll email you. Yeah, I know Margaret. Margaret said that woman handwriting was hard to read, and so she thought she should just stop doing it. So she's a very nice lady, and we appreciated having her in the lab.
The other thing is behind the pain estate, what used to be the pain estate, between that and the river. SBT owns the field, and there was a plan to go through that field and tell it down to eight inches. And so I've talked to SBT, and the first contractor that's going to do it can't do it, so they're looking for another contractor, and I want to go and walk that field, because I think it's probably archeologically sensitive, but I didn't want to go myself, so this young woman in SVT who I talked to, and she said she'd go walking with me. So we might do that, but we gotta find out if it's when, it's till, and then we can look for some evidence. So that's the most exciting thing. I haven't heard a thing from ConCom about the firm farm property, so, and I don't expect to hear from it unless I go fuck it. Well. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I. Going to say, You better go and ask. Yeah, they're just across the hall. Unknown: So otherwise, Rick is still working on the Castle Hill, Castle Hill site, and I've been helping Margaret with the media project, and that's been fun, because we going through the old photographs, and I can tell her who they are, and we've looked at some of the slides that Karen Lang Thorn had taken, and some of them are from Glover farm in Framingham. So I've been talking to the Framingham History Center about that, because I want to know more about Glover farm, because I remember a lot of the old avocational archeologists used to talk about going to Glover farm, and they all used to go and pick Katherine Gardner-Wescott: up artifacts. Where is the location of Glover's farm? Unknown: Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out, I think it's in South Framingham, not far from Lake Cochituate. In one of the books I looked Katherine Gardner-Wescott: at in South Framingham, pardon me, South Framingham, or north? For me and Unknown: no, I think it south, south, at least if it's by Lake Cochituate. On the map, it looked like it was south, but maybe, yeah, wrong. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, you know, the Glover property was in Cochituate. Yeah, two like Cochituate was in Cochituate. Well, Glover property that because she and her husband brought over the first printing press, she and her husband brought over the first printing press to the colonies. He died in route. So she was given property in Cochituate, next to dunsters property. Unknown: And that's fascinating. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So the printing press was put into Harvard and Dunster and Glover eventually married, but her children by her first husband inherited the land when she died, not Dunster or his family, but if you look on the town website maps, you will find a map, historical map showing the outline of the Glover property. Unknown: I saw that in a book that we had in our library in the office, so, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but it's on online, on the town web page, in the maps, okay, and you can see, I think it's the very last of several maps, and it shows where Glover's property was, where dunster's property was, and where Jenny, Jennifer, Jenny, Jenny's property was. Unknown: Well, the avocational seems to talk to me about Mrs. Glover and her Katherine Gardner-Wescott: father, right? Well, I don't think Mrs. Glover actually came and lived on that farm. So maybe a different Mrs. Glover, I Unknown: don't know. So Mrs. Glover, that they knew? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, no. Well, if they knew her, then it was different, because I'm talking 17, 1600 Unknown: Oh, this is not modern Mrs. Glover, this is they knew it was the historic forever bar, and so they used to refer to what is Mrs. Glover, it may have been her children, right? Then they would have had different names. Yeah, her son's wife. You know, the people I knew would tell me better. No, I know, yeah. I'm just, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: well, I'm just saying there's 200 years difference there, yes, so I don't need maybe a different Glover then. So I'm still Unknown: trying to do some research.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else Unknown: we're making headway on the Castle Hill material and Margaret's putting a lot more of it in the computer. Now, I just heard I tried to call Duncan Lucci a couple of days ago, and I talked to Deborah Cox, and you had talked to her too, and I asked, I had asked for him, and she came on the line, and she said he's not in today, and she said he hasn't been feeling too tough, which worries me, because he's got he he's the principal investigator on Sand Hill, so saying a prayer for Jack and yes, get whatever he's got. So I'll have to wait and see. So I'll keep up with that as much as I can.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Anything else. Unknown: Well, can you think of something that I've forgotten? No, I don't think so. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Alright, so it is railroad and rail trail. Richard Conard: The only thing I have to report is that the vinyl company, all type, has been paid, mentioned at our last meeting. We haven't been paid yet. We haven't paid sardown. Anything else to report. We
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: want to talk about the rail trail.
Richard Conard: Not much to report on signs the where the Carol hopes the graphic artist should be back now, but I have not heard anything. I know whether Bonnie has been in contact with or not about some of the issues that are included in last month's Katherine Gardner-Wescott: minutes. Just send you, I think she sent Richard Conard: an email to us about a possible vote at select board meeting to select a contractor for the installation of the pads and the signs, but I haven't heard back as to whether that has been scheduled for the next select board meeting. Apparently, the bids have Tom and they've selected a bit last I heard there were some questions about whether that company what would the type of font could be used when the company that would be made to fabricate the signs, if It's a company that arrow folks has not dealt with that might be some issues, but I don't know new details. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I heard from Bonnie and Tom Fay is double checking, but he thinks we're on this schedule for the 15th of September for signage and and this will, I hope, excite you. The DCR has changed the number of signs that will be printed up, and have removed two of the signs, which will eventually be printed and put on Tom property. But then there are two signs that they have contracted with a bidder to create, but they need only 11 signs instead of 13 signs. So on September 15, if people are available to come and support this at the Select Board meeting, it would be important to show numbers there. They are going to ask the Select Board, since the payment has already been secured by a vendor, and the town has already agreed to pay that amount of money. Would they allow a Historical Commission to put to make two of their signs that they are hoping to make, which could be two in Dudley woods and one in Dudley woods and one in Castle, castle gate road and and use that money to actually create the signs that would mean installation would be our responsibility, and in the way the budget is going right now. It looks like installation wouldn't be immediate, but we would have the signs to put out there are, and that's the last that was. I was told it's not a done deal. It has to be approved by the Select Board, although I understand that there are members as a Select Board that have heard, already heard this proposal or and are in favor of it. And that's why we need people there to support a positive vote now. And I had a question for you, was it castle gate that we didn't have enough money to create a sign?
Ann Gordon: You know, I would have to go back and refresh my memory, but I think it was. Yes, I think we have enough money for castle gate. My memory is but I could be wrong, but we didn't have enough for the two signs at Dudley woods that we wanted to Katherine Gardner-Wescott: do. We did, did not. I'm sorry it was noisy here Ann Gordon: that I think we did not have enough for two signs. But we also knew that we couldn't use the pot of money for castle gate. If there's any left over, we can't use it in Dudley. So I think that was part of the problem too, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right? We had a hope to marry the two, but in rereading the rules and so forth. We have to leave it open, I think for meetings. Sherry Ann, I think it has to be, has to be open. For meetings, you can pop it far away, yeah, Unknown: conversation of thought. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So I read that that we could not marry the two pots together in order to have enough money. Yeah, so knowing that would help us decide which two signs we would have this company do for us. Okay, if it passes, I mean, it would be nice if we came and said we have two signs in Dudley woods that we'd like to have done, or we have a sign it wherever we want to put it. Ann Gordon: Yeah, I think, yeah. I mean, off the top of my head, I'd say that makes more sense. It's the two Dudley wood signs,
two extra signs, and we have two signs we want to make. You know, it's a little, it's a it's a good fit. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: It is a good fit. And it's both for the town. It's both historical, and it's already, money has already been approved for it, and the contract, according to Bonnie, has already been signed. So it makes sense to go ahead and do that, and then we can put together some images for those signs and so forth that we can now, I don't know how much money would be set aside for Carol's graphic designs on that. I know we want her to do that.
Ann Gordon: Well, I'm, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: we have to get the money, though, Ann Gordon: right. And I also, you know, I'm, I don't know where the graphic standards are for the railroad, the rail trail signs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I don't think, I think we agreed at the last meeting that we weren't going to necessarily follow their guidelines. Ann Gordon: We didn't agree to that. We agreed that Abby and Mike don't need to necessarily follow their guidelines in the sign they're planning for stones bridge. But I did not understand that we decided we as a commission, don't need to follow their Katherine Gardner-Wescott: suggestion. Actually, I thought it was yours. No, Ann Gordon: I meant specifically for Abby and Mike, because they were, they were working on the sign they were, you know, ready to get going. And I said, I don't think it makes sense for you to wait and, you know, for these standards to be settled, but I think we should, if we can. I just think it's it would be best if Wayland had a look and feel that was consistent across all of our interpretive signage. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: I agree with you on that. However, I don't agree with these outline that the DCR is offering because it's too restrictive, and they limit on texts, and they limit they want you to write it as for a sixth grade level. And they will, Ann Gordon: I think every, I think all public signage is that's, that's a pretty typical standard. Is a sixth grade level is, would it be possible for the rest of us to see the standards, or the design template, or something that would give us a little sense of what they're suggesting? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: The lot of things, it things that I've just heard. What about you, Rick, that, I mean, I Bonnie says to me, but I don't have anything in writing. Richard Conard: If I received the scandals, it was so long ago that I don't remember what they were in detail, I have to look Katherine Gardner-Wescott: to see if, but they've been changed. It seems to me that a couple times changed, a couple of times. Sherry Ann, you've been there when Bonnie's talked Unknown: also, no and Ann Gordon: have you got drafts of the rail trail signs Katherine Gardner-Wescott: you want to hear what Sherry Unknown: Anne said? DCR, apparently has gotten much more. Restricted in what they want on the signs for the grants right now, as far as the number of pictures, as far as the what is in the script, and so forth and so on it. Ann Gordon: Have you got drafts of those signs yet? Have you seen anything? Unknown: No, I have not, but I don't attend all of the meetings for the for the real care signs. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Now every time, Bonnie sends something out, then she comes back later and said, No, they've rejected this or they don't want that. So no, we haven't really seen a finalized version. We're not keeping anything from anybody. We just, we don't know either. Ann Gordon: Yeah, it's, it sounds like it all we hear Katherine Gardner-Wescott: is what we're told. And it's so far, it's always been negative. It's always, they don't want this. They don't want that, this kind of font. First they wanted 10th grade level. Now they want sixth grade level. Unknown: Things restricted on the rich colors can dawn they on the signs, right?
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So that's why I thought, I thought you were suggesting for us that we didn't have to necessarily follow DCR, that we would be the leaders of what Wayland signs would look like. Well, I we do. Ann Gordon: I don't feel like we need to adhere to DCR standards in other signs, because it's not a DCR property other than, you know, the rail trail. But I think they should, I think we should be informed in our design by what they've done. You know, what colors are they using? What font are they using? What how are they laying it out? I think at least we ought to know that before we create other signs, because we may not want to adhere to all their standards. We may want more words. We may want more pictures or fewer pictures. We may want to change some of the details, but I just continue to feel like the overall look and feel should be connected, so that it feels com, you know, comprehensive and coordinated. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I thought that was one of many reasons why we wanted Carol hopes to do the designing, because she will have worked with them on this, and she will have a feel of what the font and so on and so forth, but yet she can be creative by what we want on it, so that it is not glaringly different, like a pink background with purple lettering or something like that. Ann Gordon: But yes, I agree she's the perfect person to do it, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: right and but what I'm saying is, with all the money that we're spending on posters and speakers and so forth, this may not be the year that we have enough money to pay Carol, we may have enough to start started, and then when July comes around next year, we can continue it, or whatever. But I'm just watching the budget, because it's $1,000 and we're already spending three or $400 already. Ann Gordon: So I guess I'm confused about the but what you're talking about the budget, because we already have funding for these signs, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: but we don't have funding for the graphic. Well, you're right, and you're right, maybe the money that we have we can spend towards the graphic. Person, I understand what you're saying now. Thank you for clarifying that, and that makes a lot of sense. I have forgotten about that, Ann Gordon: but it does seem like we need to see what happens at this meeting on the 15th, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: absolutely, because change that you're talking about pie in the sky at this point, but I wanted you to be aware of it so that you could come to the meeting. Look at the agenda before the 15. See if it is on the agenda. If it is on the agenda, then we need to show up and show our support for them doing that. And then then we can take the money that CPA, because we don't have to wait on that and talk to Carol about the designing and how much it would cost. Can give us an estimate on that, and we can take it from there. Does that sound good? Yep, right. Okay. Then the one last thing is the request that came in last night from who was it? The lady that's Kristen Lipson, she sent a request. She's in the process of purchasing 21 Cochituate Road, old Collins market building with a goal of converting it into two boutique cafe in bistro called townhouse. The name honors the property origins as the town's first town building. Tom really referred to as the townhouse in the 1800s because the property is zoned business a the project requires a special use permit from the Zoning Board of Appeals at last night zba hearing, the members expressed interest in the proposal, but continue the hearing to allow more time to review the bylaws, particularly as they relate to parking relief. My vision is to celebrate and preserve the building's historical significance while breathing fresh life into a true town. Landmark townhouse would not only serve as a gathering place for the residents, but also strengthen the vibrancy of the neighborhood. Nearby businesses and residents have expressed strong enthusiasm for the project, and I have had the pleasure of sharing my vision with your chair. No, this is wrong chair. Kay, but anyway, who is supportive as well to help the CBA appreciate the broader community value of this project, I would be grateful for letters of support from the Commission and individual members. Your voices as stewards of Wayland history would carry particular weight in underscoring the importance of ensuing this building, once again, serves as a pillar of the community, I've attached an overview of my plans for your reference, and I understand this may be on your agenda at today's meeting. Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions. I would be delighted to provide any additional details. Thank you very much for your consideration and for your ongoing efforts to preserve and celebrate waylands history, I will tell you that there were several neighbors, Mary and other people like Gretchen, Schuler, marjor Basson, the library, and they were either represented there or had letters of support, as well as the historical society through Scarlet. And so the question then became, would the Historical Commission also support it? Questions, comments, Ann Gordon: I'm sorry, Kay, I couldn't quite follow what you were reading at the beginning, what is her plan? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She is turning the balance market building into a a what she calls a boutique cafe. And, I
Unknown: mean, I think it's a great idea. I don't know how, how we would support it or not supported. I mean, it's within the historic district. It is, it is, and they have letter written, a letter, so, yeah, it's, it's staying within the confines of the rules of the historic district. But I don't see our role Katherine Gardner-Wescott: in it well. I think that she is saying that she is trying to keep the property as historic as possible, and that we support the what do I how do I want to say this? We support the fact that she wants to keep the building historic in appearance and so forth. That's about the only thing that we can support. Unknown: Yeah. Well, Ann Gordon: one of the things that, one of the things that strikes me about it, is that that building, in the in the years that I've lived in Wayland, that building has been inaccessible to the public. It's just a historic facade, but it was the market, and before that, it was the library. And so I like that. She her vision is to create a community space in that building again. So I I feel I like that. Unknown: I love the idea. I just don't understand exactly since, since, since it's really the historic district Commission's don't domain. I mean, I we could say we support the spirit of the idea, but I don't, I don't, I guess I just don't see our role in it. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Well, I. Again, I think it's she is hoping that the historical aspect is something that we would support, that that's our ability. Yeah, I don't see the historic aspect well, as she said, she wants to celebrate and preserve the building's historical significance while breathing fresh life into a tree town landmark. It serves as a gathering place for residents and strengths, the vibrancy of the neighborhood and so forth. People can also send letters individually saying, I really like the idea of a bistro cafe, plus the fact that she's trying to keep it as historically, yeah, possible, but she's asking the commission if they would just support her vision of keeping it historical. And since we cover the whole town, we don't exclude the historic district, we could say that, Bradford Carver: yeah, my view is, I is that if the historic district commission is passed on that tells me that they're going to retain the historical facade and it's going to look the way it is, and maintain the integrity of the building like Andrew Madison, I think it's a great idea. I'd love to see a cafe, frankly, as a business model. I'm not sure it's going to work, but, yeah, just a location, but, but in terms of, in terms of, from a historical perspective, right? It's an integrated what Unknown: was the original purpose of Katherine Gardner-Wescott: that building? It was the town building, or the town hall. It was the first non Meeting House town hall. So it was like a separation of the church and government, okay, because Unknown: I remember, and it Katherine Gardner-Wescott: had the library in the first basement, and the first floor was the was the library, the Tom clerk and so forth, was upstairs. Unknown: And then Academy, 10 years for two years High School. That was the high school in town, yeah, and it was housed in that building. That's like about 1840 and 40 to 42 Katherine Gardner-Wescott: was that a private high school or public high school, private, private high school.
Unknown: It was a grocery store Katherine Gardner-Wescott: when we moved here, and then it eventually became Collins market, you're absolutely right. And then the most recent, the real estate office that was in there, was purchased by someone who grew up in the town, and also wanted to keep the historical aspect of it the biggest problem the outside, from the outside right? Or changed? Yeah, they've changed the inside, but people previous to them had changed the inside. So for sale. Now it's not for sale. She bought it. Unknown: Oh, she bought it. Okay, so why did they put it up for sale? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: They didn't, actually, they didn't. They wanted to rent out space that they were not using. And she said, I don't want to rent it. I want to buy it, and you can rent from me. And that's what happens. Unknown: Okay, that's interesting. She's pretty enterprising. She is. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She's very much a go getter, no doubt about it. Unknown: Well, we could use a little piece for our town.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: But the question is, do we want to write a letter of support? You can all write letters of support individually, on your own is town residents, but will it can commission vote to write a letter of support for keeping the building historic, historic, I will tell you last night, after the CBA meeting, she caught me as I was leaving the house. She came up and Paul, remember Paul, or guest, to have a, what do you call those things of boards that fold outboard, tri fold boards, and he had done an architectural plan of it. He had photographs of all the original beams in the basement, and they were there with their cameras, just clipping away, taking pictures of the whole thing. And her architect was with her, so they're obviously interested in keeping it historical. Ann Gordon: Hey, what's this woman's name? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Her name is Kristen. Lipson, l, i, p, s o, n,
Bradford Carver: and the way spelled the first name is k, i, r, s, t, y, N, Ann Gordon: oh, thank you. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have picked that spelling. No, that's really i r, s, t, y, n, okay, well, I'll go out on a limb and say I would be in favor of our writing a letter of support based on the fact that we trust the historic district commission to manage the compliance with historic standards. And in my opinion, I like that. Her vision is to make it a community space once again, which I think is a sort of throwback to its history, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and it just will say an aside is that she's going to put a patio in the back so people will have accessibility all around the building, including the back. So I agree with Dan. So are you seconding second? All right? Any other further discussion? Let's take a vote and yes. Amanda, yes. Brad, yes. Jerry. Ann, yes. Tanya, I'm still thinking about okay. Richard Conard: Rick, yes, Katherine Gardner-Wescott: okay, yes. And would you like to abstain? No, I think it's a good idea. So are you voting? Yeah, I thought, yes, yes. Unknown: I just hope she follows through on what she says.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: She sold out. A lot of people didn't answer to it. She doesn't, because a lot of people wrote letters of support. Any anything else that has not in the last 48 hours been brought to our attention. Anything more to say, This is your last chance for today, our next meeting. It'll be, I believe, the eighth of Unknown: October, oops,
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: and let's see eight o'clock. I mean, October 8 at Unknown: one o'clock. What's the day? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: October 8. October 8, the second Wednesday of the month, is when we tend to be and so put it on your agendas, yeah, Unknown: if you have room.
Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Thank you, Anne for again, leaving your vacation time and staying with us is another long Unknown: meeting, not posting. What first minutes? Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, yeah, well, she knows that. What was it the March or April minutes were missing. Ann Gordon: May well we didn't meet in April, so there are no minutes for April. The main minutes, I have posted them. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: Oh, you have okay, you should be there. Yeah, Richard Conard: okay. And if you want to start listing the documents that were passed out at the meetings in the minutes, the article that I passed out today was on Well, Sherman's bridge was from the Boston Sunday globe, June 30, 1991
article on timber bridge to be built to replace Sherman's bridge.
Amanda Ciaccio: Okay, talk to you Richard Conard: about what's been that was a handout, a good one, right? Thank you. So thank you. It was in our files. Katherine Gardner-Wescott: So thank you all for coming and staying all this length of time, I appreciate that, and we are closing the meeting you.
Housing Partnership
Mary Antes: Well before being
taken so on may watch, I'll
participate remotely in the
meeting. Link that can be found
meeting
and soon after the meeting. This is practical. So participating Jackie Espiritusanto-Vega I messed it up every time. I can spell it. You can just do data if that's what I would work Jim Grumbach and the meeting Unknown: There does not appear to be any public comment. Thank you for taking the minutes. Jim Grumbach: You're welcome. You know, look, I haven't done it for a while. so I think you guys have been very Rachel Bratt: quickly so you can do it next time. Jim Grumbach: I'm not going Mary Antes: review the minutes of the last meeting. August 13. Jim has sent his corrections, any others or can go through and tell you what Jim did, if you don't have it, whatever. Unknown: They was nothing. was. It was all minor. Mary Antes: So, yeah, an apostrophe there. Rachel Bratt: I just, since I wasn't at the last meeting, I did not notice Cascade was doing 16 ownership
Mary Antes: House meeting that Robert home, Unknown: also, they're back to ownership from and they've increased the number of bedrooms from the original class. Okay, they were originally at 89 or something, and now they're somewhere over 90. That was part of when they went back, when they appealed our ruling, our the zoning board's ruling, which, which granted the special permit, but with conditions, they appealed it to. It was then eocd, and as a settlement, they agreed to put in a their own wastewater plant, and they also went from own units to rental units. So apparently, Rachel Bratt: they've gone back to which means I assume that it's 40 B only 25% discount for your subs has an industry inventory, and that the rest will be market rate, presumably compass. Unknown: Okay, and this is the old, actually, this is Mary Antes: the former Mahoney's. Thank you. Jackie, Jackie, I Rachel Bratt: said, Jackie, motion Unknown: then to I Mary Antes: move to approve amendment and I second it all right, all in favor of Jackie, yes. Kathy, yes. Rachel, yes. Okay. Updates, I know I had an email from Catherine today saying she missed the last meeting and that Jean would be able to tell us more 212
If she's here, Rachel Bratt: I have no right. You can have Katherine's online.
I think Jean had said she couldn't come. Jean over a light tickets are right, and I you haven't heard Mary Antes: I heard from Katherine today. She did not say she would not be here. we talked about some other things, including saying that Jean would probably have more information on she would. But I meant. Mentioned that at the Housing Trust meeting last night, Mike Staiti, who has been on the 212 Committee, said that he really doesn't have expertise in group homes and the people who take care of them, or anything like that. His expertise is in construction and permitting and all of that. So he resigned. The Trust has nominated Brian Boucher. Jim Grumbach: He resigned from Mary Antes: the 212 Jim Grumbach: oh, I see okay. Mary Antes: And we were recommending Brian be in his place. Janot Mendler de Suarez: And so Brian and Katherine will be on the 212 committee.
Mary Antes: And that asked about Mike would make himself available whenever they needed his kind of expertise, which is a good thing, because he's heard he's a contractor and was very knowledgeable of that stuff. But Shepherd, Rachel Bratt: well, Ah, man, I don't really know what to say. It seems like things are just dragging. As Mary knows, I've gotten some information back from the developer of the Good Shepherd Parish, and is the Planning Office of Urban Affairs. It's a nonprofit arm of the Archdiocese of lost a approval power, and they do all the development for archdiocese. They've been very, very into it. They've been very thorough. It seems like there is a hang up at our conservation commission, and I, honestly, I got as far today as trying to print out the stuff that he sent me, because he sent me five documents. He meeting the man at Hope. Philip is his name. He sent me these five documents, trying to get through them, looking at what the orders of conditions are that they're requesting from the state. The state and the Conservation Commission, apparently have not come to an understanding yet, and I just I can read to you what Philip wrote. I don't fully understand all of this stuff. Unknown: Well, maybe, maybe we could help you, but no guarantee. Rachel Bratt: Thank you for so I'm just gonna read my note to Philip yesterday, which is what I typically do when I'm supposed to give an update as I write to the person who's physically going to do that. And I said, that doesn't matter what I said. I said, what's happening? Hi Rachel, we met EO. EOHLC, that's the Executive Office of Housing and political communities and mass housing, to figure out where St Anne's slots into the future funding to EOL. EOLHC was hesitant as to a ballpark time frame as they wanted more clarity regarding the appeal of DEP is superseding order of conditions from the Conservation Commission. So again, this is the Department of Environmental Protection at the state, I guess, assessing the Conservation Commissions, superseding order of conditions. I hope these just enough. Jim Grumbach: My understanding is when the State wetlands, I think that's what it is, the state wetlands bylaws, as opposed to the town bylaws, when there are certain times when the state comes into play and it may override the town, and it sounds to me like they did, and then has the right, automatic right to appeal. Rachel Bratt: So helpful. Jim Grumbach: I think procedurally, that's that's kind of, yes, it's sort of a preemption argument where the state Rachel Bratt: until it's resolved, eohl isn't going to give us a date, but our target construction start is Q1, of Qt versus second quarter of 2026 otherwise we're doing what we can to be ready to move to construction once we have a better understanding of when we can close on construction loan. And then here's some background on the conservation issue. Maybe this is also illuminating. We spent over a year with ConCom, though most of the time was related to coordination with the peer reviewer, between between ConCom and both Board of Health. The order of conditions was issued in November included several unexpected and problematic conditions, which led us to file an appeal. We had made clear to conservation and Town Manager our intent to withdraw the appeal once an amendment order of conditions was drafted, but conservation never acted. The appeal concluded that DEP issued a more favorable superseding Order, order of conditions, after which conservation voted to appeal further. They've since indicated a willingness to discuss settlement, and we're hopeful this could be resolved in the coming weeks. And
Unknown: then so now it's between the DEP and ConCom not EOHLC. Rachel Bratt: I think that's right, okay. And then I think the other thing that I had gotten from him in some other email was we've been approved for the federal tax credits, which is the main subsudy that happened quite a few months ago, I don't think. But there's also an issue of getting state bonds from Mass Housing, because the bonds that we get from Mass Housing also help to reduce the cost of construction. And I think in another email that I had gotten from him, he said that EOL was reluctant to give us a timeline on that until everything else was so but you know, we're in the queue for everything. And you know, these guys are so capable and competent and patient, but it's just taking Jim Grumbach: well, isn't, isn't Jean over now on ConCom, Unknown: or no, she, we are hoping that she, that ConCom will appoint her to this committee Jim Grumbach: but she's not. Oh, I see So, so she's not a member of ConCom. Okay, it would be helpful to know somebody. I don't even know, who's that, who's the Chair of ConCom? used to be Sherre Greenbaum Mary Antes: It's Sean Fair, Rachel Bratt: fair, okay, I mean, Linda Hanson is obviously the one person who writes all of the superseding order of conditions. I mean, I've got all these documents here that she has signed, but it's
Unknown: I could try. Paul Sean, I mean, I sat with him on the zoning board for a year or two. I mean, that was decades. Rachel Bratt: Anyway, you know, whatever's going on seems to be at our end, local level, local problem the state. You know federal credits are lined up. The state knows we need to be in the queue for the mass housing, not the Unknown: state either. More favorable ruling is that you said Rachel Bratt: yes. That sounds Unknown: like another local issue with ConCom. Yeah. Rachel Bratt: And I did try to figure out what it was with the sticking points, but I didn't have time to go through this, and it's pretty dense. And, you know, we have two lawyers here. Unknown: This is, well, Tom, if you're, if you're giving up on it and you want to give it to me, I'll take it. Rachel Bratt: But otherwise, I think we don't have to honestly. I wanted to know I wanted to know more about it. I got as far as trying to print this stuff. I think what Philip has written to us probably suffices for our Unknown: minutes. Well, be nice to know from ConCom, what's the Rachel Bratt: sticking point? If you're okay, that would be great if we can get more information or lean on him a little bit. But
it just would be nice to get this resolved and to break ground by the first or second quarter of 2026 somebody from the church said this was was asking me about it from good shepherd. And she said, Well, she wasn't sure the current priest is quite as supportive as our friend David holiday. And I said it really was out of the church's hands at this point that the archia, since had approved it, the developers would name. I sound true to go along with it, but it is not in his camp at this point, either for or against. He's just kind of inherited. So I don't know anything about that. It's just hearsay a member of the church.
Mary Antes: It's whatever you find out from Tom Tom, if there's something we should do, Unknown: like write a letter, Jim Grumbach: yeah, I will notify you, Rachel Bratt: and then we'll let you decide
Unknown: we must know a different Jim Brownback, I'm looking to delegate Rachel Bratt: tonight. The big item is ADU.
Unknown: Forum.
Rachel Bratt: Kathy, why don't you start?
Unknown: So I think Rachel sent out a second on the final,
Rachel Bratt: third draft proposed. Unknown: This is where we basically went to Planning Board to get their tie in and collaborate Rachel Bratt: a couple of copies, if anybody
Mary Antes: needs it. Part of the comments Unknown: on that. This is the, this is the, this is the blown up version, yeah, unless you Well, this is clean. Rachel Bratt: Oh, I think you Unknown: somehow differently. So,
yeah, the final one in March is date 16 that's covered. Rachel, can I have a problem? Please?
Yes. Anyway, as a result of that, in that prior meeting, we talked about meeting with Anette, informally. And then we went back to Anette with, you know, responding to her concerns, and Robin and we went to the planning board meeting, and, oh, you were both there, I think Jim and Mary. Jim Grumbach: And who's Robin for yourself? Sorry, I think she's Unknown: a chair now Jim Grumbach: she Oh, Rachel Bratt: she's the chair, I think. And I think that I could be wrong
attorney, and she is now the representative. Unknown: She's definitely been delegated on this issue. Rachel Bratt: She had also sponsored. Haven't she been the one to speak a town meeting on the ADU bylaw? Unknown: Do we recall that? No, that is correct. She presented it so she Rachel Bratt: then, kind of now has inherited on the planning board being their spokesperson. Unknown: Okay. Thank so anyway, I mean, I'm not sure that there's so many generations we went back and forth with, we made a very concerted effort to address their concerns. And we, you know, a lot of it, I think, was wordsmithing. I think a lot of it was says to me, it was taking things too literally and getting feeling like we're putting them in a box where I don't think we were, but, you know, again, Rachel been bad with and we made lots of concessions, and it was fine. I mean, it was an agreeable kind of process. I think whenever you're Rachel Bratt: dealing with multiple committees trying to write a document, it's gets difficult, and what came out of it, I think, is fine and clear and satisfactory to go forward now. Unknown: And we gave them things, as far as you know, we gave them the order, we changed the order we had originally. I think what we used previously was, you know, I think seen a document where we, think we shared this before, where we essentially were talking about, you know, the introduction, the overview of the legal product regulations, and then we were going to talk about construction and identifying personnel and that, I think, did react, there was some reaction to that. They didn't want anybody identified who would, in fact, be somebody working for Wayland, or from Wayland who would be a contractor. And I don't know that that's cast in stone, but this is the days of the issue. We had raised DEP sacred name, and a name. And I think Jimmy would mention before when melody, and we didn't even put wind forward as a name at this point, and and basically they didn't want names identified, which was okay, so. So we essentially Rachel Bratt: potential contractors and private business people. And there's Unknown: no reason these people can't participate in the forum, but they won't be identified, as I understand it, as people on the panel, person Rachel Bratt: right, and they can, essentially, they pitch for their product, or they pitch for their right. So that Unknown: we understood that. We haven't Rachel Bratt: sanitized that, yeah. Unknown: And then the now, the septic issues were obviously a concern to the planning board and Title Five, no, we realize it's going to be addressed, that it's an issue. And then we basically took what I think we talked about at our last meeting, which was the brainstorming idea of how to promote affordable ADUs, and we put it as the last panel in part. I mean, I think our pitch to what was talking to with Rachel was the idea that we would gain on a advocacy note, a positive note, a strategy for action. And people leave because we can't get everything done and now, so what the people who will stay will be the people who perhaps are committed to this, or have an interest in this and whatever. But instead of talking about seeing who's gonna end
Rachel Bratt: up front, and that will take most of the hour and a half, presumably, and then the next steps of a ad use when we get to it, or we'll defer to another meeting. So, so what would the next step of where we are is Kathy and I would start, should start contacting the various other people who are supposed to be part of this little planning group. So right now, the planning group for the forum it consists of Kathy Lee and Robin, but we want to start recruiting now. Building Board of Health assess, the conservation Housing Trust, Housing Authority, DEP, new human rights. We'll be looking for as many of these folks as possible to co sponsor this kind of Tom, when it gets advertised, they would all be listed along with the planning board in the house of partnership as co sponsors of the forum. So I think the next step is for us to call email each of those people on that list, and you know, we're now in a position where we can send this to them and describe what we're doing. The date is tentatively set to November 12. Does that work for us?
Mary Antes: Somehow, the 12th is in the back of my mind as a 2/50 event,
Rachel Bratt: then it turns out, for me, the fifth would be better. The fifth would be better for various reasons that the planning board had come up with the 12th because that was a regularly scheduled meeting of theirs. But as for me, I would love to make it the fifth. The things we need to do are, obviously get the co sponsors and line up people for the panels. Unknown: And I think when we're talking about co sponsors, we're not talking about this. This is a done deal at this point. We're not going back right to do what we did with Rachel Bratt: this was the planning board and Robert humble, who waited today, basically, I couldn't move this document into the planning board, and Robert had given me okay. It's been done for I don't know my first draft was two weeks ago, probably yes, but Robert was on vacation, and it just took time, and you just have to kind of wait it Unknown: out. So are the co sponsors of people that are Rachel Bratt: mentioned, yes, bullet, those are the people that we will be recruiting to be co Unknown: sponsors. So that's the boh, the building department, the assessor, Housing Authority, obviously, Katherine, I don't think there's much question with the Housing Authority and the Housing Trust. St Mary works pretty regularly with Mike, that's not a problem. Rachel Bratt: I don't know whether we didn't put the select Word down on this. Should they be just actually sponsored? Unknown: I think they should and and you know what I can do. I can I can contact when I contact Sean Fay, I can, I can ask him to be a co sponsor. They mentioned Rachel Bratt: Tom Okay. Who did we have down? Unknown: We have Linda Hanson, okay, and I don't know her. I, I can always ask him. That contact. Rachel Bratt: I guess I didn't put, I didn't even think to put a select board down, but maybe we should make an overture and see if they're interested. Jim Grumbach: I think, I think we should. Rachel Bratt: So I think the next you're going to contact Sean Fay Unknown: and ConCom on the palette issue. But I can Rachel Bratt: also solicit Jim Grumbach: his interest if he Rachel Bratt: says, Dr Linda, of course we also need a representative on ConCom for one of the panels. Is that not listed? Maybe it's not listed. Just be. So it's just, it's just asking for his endorsement, you know, the endorsement of conservation. Because, yes, there, there are wetlands issues, there are possible issues involved with ConCom. So they're not going to be a panelist, I guess, but it's like appropriate to have them on board. Mary Antes: Maybe
Rachel Bratt: some other things expect attorney brought Unknown: back to Well, I think the other thing we could do, if we wanted, is we could say we've planned out the meeting and we have some panels. Would anybody from these boards be interested? Rachel Bratt: Well, I think you have to do much, yes, too much, because the panels can't be that big. Jim Grumbach: Okay, so I'm not gonna, you're not Rachel Bratt: asking them. You're just, I'm not Jim Grumbach: gonna ask them. I'll just add some notes. You know, if you Mary Antes: have two or three that you could ask about opponent, Jean, Rachel Bratt: oh, there you go. Another another task. You appointing gene to as a representative. So you've got three things. It sounds like, okay, so I have to.
Unknown: So one is power. Two is sponsor, Rachel Bratt: sponsored, co sponsor, along with many other town boards, co sponsor Unknown: the forum. And the third is appoint gene Rachel Bratt: as as a ConCom.
Mary Antes: I have talked with Linda about this. I've sent her several reminders so it's not new to her. I don't know Jim Grumbach: this is a representative to this committee. Yes,
Mary Antes: we haven't had a representative from the conservation for two years, three years.
Jim Grumbach: Okay, Rachel Bratt: okay, so thank you for being patient. Thank you. Thank you for doing so. We do need to contact now, Mary, you're gonna, did you say would contact the Select Board Mary Antes: again and Rachel Bratt: let them know about this? Why don't you just say, I haven't checked the date of November 5 with the planning board, their tentative date was the 12th. Yeah, that's what I have in mind. But maybe if you can open up the fifth or the 12th and see what what their availability is, and you're going to double check if there's something on the 2/50 that would be a deal. Perfect. The 19th gets too close to Thanksgiving, and then after Thanksgiving, it's not a good time with Christmas. The holidays. Nobody wants to plan December. So if we didn't make it in November, we'd having to push it into January, which would be what we would do. Would be what it's what we would do. It's what we'd have to be the 12th of January. You know, early in January. But okay, so can we actually go through this Cathy just quickly? Who's going to call whom we've got the ConCom set? So Jim is going to do that. Select the word is married
Unknown: sport of health, building, building, what do you Rachel Bratt: want to do? Who do you want to call that? I think I had Unknown: Juliet and Rachel Bratt: Nathan, so Board of Health and Nathan and Kathy and the assessor is doing that. Am I doing that? Okay, so we have that assessor and DPW all do actually Jackie's on the Housing Trust. I'll. Local Chair of the House interest you
Unknown: think Mike's gonna wanna? You think Mike's gonna want to do that?
I mean, they don't have to do anything. It's certainly Rachel Bratt: a matter of at your next meeting. By saying, this is a document that's being put out by the planning board and the house of partnership for the forum, you've been asked to co sponsor this.
Unknown: Can we give them this draft? Rachel Bratt: This draft is now public, so Jackie, you can take care of do Unknown: I have an electronic copy of this? How? Do I have electronic copy of this? I can take the document, get rid of the oh, if you order Rachel Bratt: anything, so you make a PDF and send Unknown: it around. Rachel Bratt: I didn't send this out. You might have noticed, six o'clock tonight. What you said, I have the green light.
Jim Grumbach: I did notice you sending it, Rachel Bratt: so I did, and I was trying to get dinner, and I didn't convert it into a PDF. But if you do that and send that around, and then Jackie at your next meeting, if you would propose that, that Unknown: would be great. So it's no work in there, but it's literally the DPW. I think we haven't Rachel Bratt: gotten to them yet,
Jim Grumbach: unless I missed it.
Do you mind Rachel Bratt: if you know Tom, that would be great. Larry and I'll do the assessing, I guess. Unknown: Okay, and that leaves, I got caught on human rights. Dei, that's Jeanette, I'm assuming. Rachel Bratt: So, so we asked her notes that actually I Mary Antes: think Karen Rosen thought, well Rachel Bratt: is on the committee. She can ask the committee Mary Antes: now she has sort of pulled back from the 2/50 so Karen has no man that and the lad, no man, that name yesterday or something, said she was in Argentina, so you may not get her full. Why don't? Rachel Bratt: Who's the chair of the DEI? Mary Antes: Karen,
Rachel Bratt: okay, thank you. So let me go through the list.
Select Board is Mary, building and health are Kathy. Rachel is assessor. Jim is conservation. Jack is Housing Trust. Rachel is housing authority. Mary is DTP, W and Rachel is human rights.
Jim Grumbach: Great. Thank you. Rachel Bratt: So again. Oh, and then we should not only solicit their support, but some of these people also have to be specifically asked if they'll participate. Unknown: So let's go through okay, now I think we should do that after you and I go through the stuff, so we now know what we've go ahead so we have one more conversation. Okay? In theory, though, we might want to have that discussion before we contact those people. No, I think we should. Rachel Bratt: Let's just get their support. I think get their support and also mention, actually Mary. I think the first order of reasons is to find out the 12th and then let us know is the 12th arrival date. And if not, then you have to check with the planning board about the fifth, and if not, you have to look at January. I assume everybody believes that once Thanksgiving, I agree. It's not a point running a forum in December, Unknown: because we don't actually have a lot of buy in already, because we have, by the Board of Health, they were pretty open that night. Rachel Bratt: Yeah, I think this is that performance, Unknown: and Julia also, and whether she's the one who participates on the panel or somebody Rachel Bratt: else, there's a lot of support for this, yeah, and I haven't seen anything further from Robert's website. Whether you know that the Robert and it's, I think it's on the building department website, right? But that's going to be something we want to make sure in. Is clear, and we work with them to make sure that people can pull up the checklist of what do I need to do Unknown: to they had started, and I don't know that we would think it was complete. Rachel Bratt: So I was very clear that we want to be involved in that website, making sure that it is an easy flow of information. They've got to ask you want to put up an ADU? What I have to do? Internal, external reconfiguration.
So that is our that's our update. Is there anything else? Unknown: Kathy, well, I would say on penalty. I think that is where this group can participate in terms of thinking about ideas, strategies, you know, being on the panel, and Rachel Bratt: so let's put that on the agenda for next time when we hope that we have new members where we can put it maybe that, maybe we even own that. Unknown: I think it is our panel, and I agree. We even said it. We said it to them so they start members of whp, yeah, we call the time. We have time to throw our ideas and to sort of dig into them. I think, identify resources. And I think a lot of this is going to be resources and links and websites and that type of information. Well, you now have the building department and the assessor. You think they won't be part of that, not Well, that would be a part of other ones. I suspect they won't be on penalty because they were not interested for you. DEP, absolutely,
Jim Grumbach: my apologies Unknown: are not working, okay,
Rachel Bratt: I mean, and basically, yeah, that's all you need on the panel. And maybe Robert as well. You know, part maybe Robert is participating in a lot of these panels, since he's hotel, Mary Antes: so we're not having like Doug or when, right? That's probably we should be sure to invite them correct to come, because they will Rachel Bratt: have, they can come, they can participate. They can from the floor. They can offer. If somebody says, Does anybody have ideas about costs? The issue was we, there was no sense that we wanted this to be an opportunity for people to promote their own but if somebody, a participant, wants to say, Well, I've done, you know, three ADU of under 900 square feet and like it cost one family physicals another, Unknown: and the planning board meeting that we did attend, I mean, Sackler was driving back from Maine or someplace, and he indicated that he was willing to share information that he had, I'm sorry, the architect, in terms of costs, all we wanted he could do that from the floor, Rachel Bratt: so he's not being validated us or given A Unknown: special podium, like putting the panel, the planning board, in a position that they Yeah, Mary Antes: but, but I think we should Yes, specifically, anybody know, Oh, absolutely, Rachel Bratt: that he's welcome to participate, yeah, but not, but not that he's not being officially sanctioned. Like, like the town to present this information, yeah, because, I mean, I think those were all important points. And I mean, Robert keeps reminding us, appropriately, that every case is different. There's no cookie cutter for this at all, even, you know, one yard versus another yard, and ADU and one yard will require this amount of work. And ad, you know, reconfiguring interior spaces, it's all Unknown: but I think one, one thing we bring to the table is we are sort of free flowing and creative. We we don't have a lot of rules. We're, we're not a formal committee. The Planning Board had is a formal town committee. They have a, you know, they have to bylaws. They've got to fit it into boxes. We don't have to fit into boxes. And I think that's an important part of this that we should take advantage of. Mary Antes: Now, you had a neighbor who was trying to build them. Unknown: Well, they they built it and it was not sanctioned because of all the all issues with the building department.
Rachel Bratt: So yeah, Unknown: and I'm sure, I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. They, you know, they've tried, and it's very frustrating when, when you know you can't fit into the exact things. And, you know, I so I can, I can talk about the fact that there are people in town who have essentially done this, but not with blessing of the town, because it's been so difficult to dig into the bylaws and regulations. But here, with this new statute and the revised by law, what we're trying to do is make it less difficult and more cost efficient and easier, so that people don't want to run away from it, but they want to embrace it, because then it will be formalized, and then it may enhance your property value more, rather than leaving you in this gray zone. It would be wonderful Rachel Bratt: if we can get a little bit of movement. I mean, we don't know how much, Unknown: but there is resources out there. This is from 2018 and this is from basically California, which is where Gene was actually talking about before twice. This guy's name is Cole Peterson, and he's got all sorts of material on the internet. And it's just used from Amazon. It's already mocked up. Anybody's Welcome Rachel Bratt: to when it's that easy to use. It's totally on. Unknown: It's called back to a revolution, the definitive guide to ADU development, and it's basically there was a section on affordable ADU and promoting affordable ADU. What's back to a revolution. Rachel Bratt: You got it used on Amazon? Yep.
Unknown: Guys called Kol Peterson,
Rachel Bratt: sounds like a good read. Yeah, Sen or
Unknown: thank you for finding that. And when did you say that was 2000 18,018?
And so it's giving a lot of examples from what they're doing in different places, basically from the West Coast, Oregon, Portland and also Austin, Texas. And can they go? Okay, more progressive cities, okay, but it is interesting, and it's again, promoting strategies for change, for things that actually could work and how to do it, and talking about an advocacy role, and talking about holding phones, very exciting support and stuff like that. It's pretty much what we've Rachel Bratt: been doing. The one thing that we're not dealing with, which is not fun. I wish they were a way to have some kind of low interest fund so that somebody could, let's say, borrow $5,000 or $10,000 to try to, you know, jump start their project with, you know, a below market, you know, 2% interest rate, 3% interest rate, so that I don't know if you know, I don't know if the trust would do anything like that. It gets complicated. Mary Antes: I mean, we do repair and something else, right? We've never talked about them. They do have home improvement. But it's really, Rachel Bratt: I mean, when you're
Unknown: trying to do, I mean,
Rachel Bratt: again, if you're trying to get a union built, and somebody says, Well, this is going to cost me 10s of $1,000 but if I got a really low interest loan for a third of it, let's say that might be the sweetener interest rates with that quarter Today, that is going to make a big difference. Unknown: But, yeah, I was actually looking this small this morning in terms of the capital cost being the major hurdle was ultimately out there talked about and the incentives to building, trying to overcome how to reduce capital cost development, how to market ADU is locally through earned media, in creating a sense of urgency by placing deadlines on incentives. The key is, what are the incentives and then building trust in the ADU permitting process? And I think that is something if there was when we talked about description of the group. That's what we were trying to get at when they I think they get a little caught up in it. But it was the idea that this permitting process, it would be clear, they're clear guidelines that they would be we talked about pre approved. They didn't like that term to be able to like they would take it too literally. But the idea. Was that there is a process, and that process applies to everybody. You can oh no, and there's a checklist that you know is gonna apply to you. It's gonna apply to me, and it's not gonna worry about whether, yes, every unit may be different, but you know what, I can still come with that you and I are basically gonna have the same criteria, and that's what people need to know, so they're not gonna feel like they're gonna get screwed. Rachel Bratt: I mean, I think the conversation of incentives, financial incentives, that is another conversation whether, and I don't know where we would have, it would be with the housing trust or the CPA, but I mean, those are our sources of kind of just earmarked for housing, kind of discussions and CPA Community Preservation Act, you know that, Unknown: right? Okay, this money from all the real estate transfers? Rachel Bratt: No, it's actually a surcharge from our property, right? Okay, so if you look at your property tax bill, which I know Unknown: we all love to look at, Rachel Bratt: there's a line item that says CPA on it so this, and that is, I think, one and a half percent of the tax obligation every town could choose either not to participate or to go up to 3% and we chose one and a half percent. And the idea was, early on, the state was going to matching funds. So if Wayland raised, let's say, a million dollars in CPA funds, that we were supposed to get a million from the state, that ratio has changed. And I don't know what I don't know what the matching is. Now, it might be very little at this point, I think, anyway that gets into the means of the statute. But the point was, the incentive for the cities and towns to levy this extra tax was that there would be some state money and and it had to go to one of three activities, at least 10% each year had to be allocated for housing, historic preservation or open space. So those were the three activities. And each year you have to set aside at least 10% each of them, but you can go out, and that's where the trust gets its manual contribution. Mary Antes: Every every year, we get that 10% Rachel Bratt: and you can get more for housing if you apply for right? So it's not it's not a maximum, it's a minimum, but it's an assurance that each of those activities get at least 10% Unknown: and is that, are those the only three types of activities? I mean, Mary Antes: open creation is, Rachel Bratt: yeah, open space slash recreation is what kind of it ended up being. And there were, there were debates about, can you use that money to redo the track field at the school trip. Yeah, so is that open space? Is that? You know, where does that fit in? But it was, it was open space. It was not in the statute of recreation. Okay? At recreation, somehow, I
Mary Antes: mentioned that there is a group. Metropolitan Area Planning Committee has started gathering representatives of housing trusts. They've had two meetings so far. The third one is tomorrow. At the second meeting, they talked about the real estate transfer, and Carmen and Gentile is has a bill, and of course, they're looking for people to support it. This would be a Rachel Bratt: transfer tax. Might be Mary Antes: similar. It would be similar to CPA, and would be a percentage. And there's all sorts of flexibility in the amount and what it goes for all afford for affordable housing, but Rachel Bratt: was there was this for all property transfers, or just certain properties like over? Mary Antes: Well, I think it's the it's very flexible. They're giving us an update tomorrow on where that is. We really can't say when you support it, because, you know, we're a town valley, but I would like at some point for some discussion of the trans of that, and see if, if there's interests. Rachel Bratt: Yes, well, I mean, the transfer tax has been used in a number of municipalities, including, I believe the cape, I believe Nantucket, maybe northeast Indian also, I don't remember, but I believe they've got the transfer tax. And I know transfer taxes exist elsewhere. I just, I don't know where Mary Antes: and how much and the bill is to make it available to anybody like the CPA right now, if I want to do it, you have to
pass it at town meeting and then give it to the your representative and hope that it'll go through and it doesn't always. So this is, as I understand it is, to make it an easier process. Unknown: So would be done on town wide basis. Wouldn't be a state mandate. Rachel Bratt: It sounds like a stay in a statute, and I mean, unlike it's not clear what the incentive would be from the state with CPA, there was a cash incentive that made sweetened the deal for towns to adopt this, I Unknown: don't know, and especially now With the uncertainty of health care and everyone else, education. I don't know what people are going to be Mary Antes: willing to when I mentioned it to Brian, he said, Oh, no, not another task. And of course, he's very much in favor of affordable housing. So, you know, it may not go anywhere. But I think it's worth a discussion. They talked about, you know, like we could get a million dollars.
Rachel Bratt: Well, sure. I mean, depending what you know, let's say all homes over a million dollars, most find many homes that are under all homes under million dollars, pay 1% whatever. Anyway, you know, then you come back to the question of, okay, we've got this money. Where do we build it? I mean, that becomes our age old. Problem is, even if we have the money, you have to find land, you have to have, Mary Antes: but I wonder if it could be used for ADU. I think, I think we know
Rachel Bratt: things are going to get a lot to get a lot worse before they get better. So whatever we can do to soften the blows of whatever's coming, yes, what we're trying to do.
Unknown: And then one of the other things remember that the planning would be, that was Anette brought it up, the idea of the condo conversion, using that as a mechanism. Rachel Bratt: If you've got a primary unit out of ADU, they would each become their own freestanding condo, right? Unknown: So you wouldn't be as it would be an incentive to de restriction. It wouldn't be the disincentive for de restriction, as opposed to like there currently is, in terms of people fearful of acting on their property. Rachel Bratt: Somehow, I feel like that's such a long shot. I mean, as Unknown: I don't know any general opinions that is exerted to encourage town, there's a case already.
Rachel Bratt: Georgetown, Massachusetts as a homeowner, wanting to go from having full independence on your property to constraining it by being in a quote Congo association with another family, I don't know. It doesn't strike me as, oh, that's a great idea. Let's everybody jump on Mary Antes: I don't Unknown: know if you, especially if you're thinking in terms of a way for an income property, in a way to Anette was telling but she didn't see the point if the property was used to have a sort of number of square feet, and that you thought it would be a reason for subdivided property, as opposed to Congo conversion. But for people who aren't going to subdivide, but who basically would be, there's a lot of people who are oversized or large homes, and you can imagine them, well, it's worth the conversation, is what it is. And get or give people options. In other words, there's nobody to be in business. They write what they want if it's allowed. And that's the question is, is it allowed? Is it authorized? This case, I think suggests that the state is open to it. But in any event, I've been looking at the attorney general opinion, that's how they're coming down. Is this is. Relative to dealing with the ADU Rachel Bratt: housing person Unknown: dealing with the ADU and interpretations, so I've been just looking at them to see what they're doing. Rachel Bratt: So I think that probably concludes the conversation about planning for Mary Antes: the ADU. The only other thing on the agenda is the annual report. Thank you for taking
Jim Grumbach: care of the
annual report. No, it looks Rachel Bratt: good to me. Unknown: I were you looking for changes? I thought it was.
Rachel Bratt: I've been
Jim Grumbach: writing on the back of it for Unknown: my minutes here, there's only one, and I'm not, at one point, it refers to promoting the use of the law. And I think, I don't think it's promoting the use of the law. I think it's promoting the development of ADU through the law, the new law, that's all. Comment, please.
Rachel Bratt: Okay, it's it's sort of the bottom. It's the first full paragraph on the summary. Town Meeting approved the proposed bylaw by a largeman majority. The whp is planning a town forum to promote the use of the new bylaw. And how quick Would you like that to Unknown: say, Well, I would say to promote development of ADUs through the new by law,
Rachel Bratt: to promote development Unknown: ad use.
Rachel Bratt: That's very nice.
Well, I I move that we accept a sound report with the revision. Jim Grumbach: Mention second.
Mary Antes: Jackie, yes. Kathy,
Unknown: yes. Maybe tonight, this may have already been picked up. This is just, this is not a substantive shame. It's on the last paragraph on the second page, Committee continues,
including the two local developers. I think it's interested in building. Jim Grumbach: I'm sorry this
Unknown: is Oh, yeah, interesting.
It requires a new boat. Beautiful. It was really nicely done. Excellent job.
Mary Antes: Sent you an email about do HLC having ADU presentations on the 30th of September and second of November, in case anybody,
Unknown: and by the way, Anette Lewis forwarded something to us.
Cost 75
Rachel Bratt: so Mary, remind me you sent me. You sent emails about the OHC on 18 Mary Antes: years, yeah, ADU to ADU presentations, Rachel Bratt: and that's an email from me. Mary Antes: Well, I forwarded it. Okay, I think Unknown: I like to make one revision. We've now approved the Annual Report with two edits instead of one, same motion, same five, zero vote. Rachel Bratt: Everybody's comfortable. Thank you. Okay, got it. Mary Antes: Thank you. The next
Rachel Bratt: meeting, let me just say one other thing I know. In the meeting before last, we talked about Catherine, and I doing kind of some overviews of housing issues, and I think we're prepared to do it. But given the ad, you know, and get a bunch of topics that people want. More background, and since we have some new memories, but I think we should just put that all through that Catherine and I were in touch and came up with the mini agenda, but that got shelved with the ADU stuff, and I wasn't at the last meeting. So I just want to say I haven't forgotten about it. I love talking about this stuff, so I'll be happy to go through some of the housing issues history programs, but right now, I think we've got to focus on the ATD forum getting all that done, but it's in the back Jim Grumbach: room. I guess that's good point. Rachel Bratt: So we don't have
Unknown: to vote on the consensus is to Rachel Bratt: postpone. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just offering to postponement Jim Grumbach: until after the ADU Mary Antes: form. Yeah.
Unknown: I Okay, so the next meeting we're talking about mid October, and are we going to stay on Wednesday Rachel Bratt: nights? Wednesday, Mary Antes: my niece is coming on the 15th, which I think is a Wednesday 22nd and my daughter is coming on the 23rd which I think is Thursday, Thursday. So 22nd to 22nd 22nd Unknown: is good. I actually had a trial which is scheduled to end on the 22nd so the 15th, so let's say October, 22 at seven o'clock Mary Antes: in person again. Or Unknown: how do you guys feel about getting out tonight? It actually was fine. Rachel Bratt: I was tired when I left my house. I feel Jim Grumbach: this time it's nice to see guys face. What do
Rachel Bratt: you feel Jack? I'm up for it
Mary Antes: in person or Zoom Unknown: probably easier? Rachel Bratt: Well, no, it's easy
Unknown: to be in person because I don't have a problem with being a guardian for whatever reason, nobody can hear me. Yeah, you know the problem with Zoom is there are times that somebody's computer perhaps out, or they don't get invited. We've had enough time so Rachel Bratt: you want in person? Yeah, we'll do it Mary Antes: in person. Maybe in the winter. We'll go back to zoom or something if we have a winter. So now I
Unknown: so in favor.
and soon after the meeting. This is practical. So participating Jackie Espiritusanto-Vega I messed it up every time. I can spell it. You can just do data if that's what I would work Jim Grumbach and the meeting Unknown: There does not appear to be any public comment. Thank you for taking the minutes. Jim Grumbach: You're welcome. You know, look, I haven't done it for a while. so I think you guys have been very Rachel Bratt: quickly so you can do it next time. Jim Grumbach: I'm not going Mary Antes: review the minutes of the last meeting. August 13. Jim has sent his corrections, any others or can go through and tell you what Jim did, if you don't have it, whatever. Unknown: They was nothing. was. It was all minor. Mary Antes: So, yeah, an apostrophe there. Rachel Bratt: I just, since I wasn't at the last meeting, I did not notice Cascade was doing 16 ownership
Mary Antes: House meeting that Robert home, Unknown: also, they're back to ownership from and they've increased the number of bedrooms from the original class. Okay, they were originally at 89 or something, and now they're somewhere over 90. That was part of when they went back, when they appealed our ruling, our the zoning board's ruling, which, which granted the special permit, but with conditions, they appealed it to. It was then eocd, and as a settlement, they agreed to put in a their own wastewater plant, and they also went from own units to rental units. So apparently, Rachel Bratt: they've gone back to which means I assume that it's 40 B only 25% discount for your subs has an industry inventory, and that the rest will be market rate, presumably compass. Unknown: Okay, and this is the old, actually, this is Mary Antes: the former Mahoney's. Thank you. Jackie, Jackie, I Rachel Bratt: said, Jackie, motion Unknown: then to I Mary Antes: move to approve amendment and I second it all right, all in favor of Jackie, yes. Kathy, yes. Rachel, yes. Okay. Updates, I know I had an email from Catherine today saying she missed the last meeting and that Jean would be able to tell us more 212
If she's here, Rachel Bratt: I have no right. You can have Katherine's online.
I think Jean had said she couldn't come. Jean over a light tickets are right, and I you haven't heard Mary Antes: I heard from Katherine today. She did not say she would not be here. we talked about some other things, including saying that Jean would probably have more information on she would. But I meant. Mentioned that at the Housing Trust meeting last night, Mike Staiti, who has been on the 212 Committee, said that he really doesn't have expertise in group homes and the people who take care of them, or anything like that. His expertise is in construction and permitting and all of that. So he resigned. The Trust has nominated Brian Boucher. Jim Grumbach: He resigned from Mary Antes: the 212 Jim Grumbach: oh, I see okay. Mary Antes: And we were recommending Brian be in his place. Janot Mendler de Suarez: And so Brian and Katherine will be on the 212 committee.
Mary Antes: And that asked about Mike would make himself available whenever they needed his kind of expertise, which is a good thing, because he's heard he's a contractor and was very knowledgeable of that stuff. But Shepherd, Rachel Bratt: well, Ah, man, I don't really know what to say. It seems like things are just dragging. As Mary knows, I've gotten some information back from the developer of the Good Shepherd Parish, and is the Planning Office of Urban Affairs. It's a nonprofit arm of the Archdiocese of lost a approval power, and they do all the development for archdiocese. They've been very, very into it. They've been very thorough. It seems like there is a hang up at our conservation commission, and I, honestly, I got as far today as trying to print out the stuff that he sent me, because he sent me five documents. He meeting the man at Hope. Philip is his name. He sent me these five documents, trying to get through them, looking at what the orders of conditions are that they're requesting from the state. The state and the Conservation Commission, apparently have not come to an understanding yet, and I just I can read to you what Philip wrote. I don't fully understand all of this stuff. Unknown: Well, maybe, maybe we could help you, but no guarantee. Rachel Bratt: Thank you for so I'm just gonna read my note to Philip yesterday, which is what I typically do when I'm supposed to give an update as I write to the person who's physically going to do that. And I said, that doesn't matter what I said. I said, what's happening? Hi Rachel, we met EO. EOHLC, that's the Executive Office of Housing and political communities and mass housing, to figure out where St Anne's slots into the future funding to EOL. EOLHC was hesitant as to a ballpark time frame as they wanted more clarity regarding the appeal of DEP is superseding order of conditions from the Conservation Commission. So again, this is the Department of Environmental Protection at the state, I guess, assessing the Conservation Commissions, superseding order of conditions. I hope these just enough. Jim Grumbach: My understanding is when the State wetlands, I think that's what it is, the state wetlands bylaws, as opposed to the town bylaws, when there are certain times when the state comes into play and it may override the town, and it sounds to me like they did, and then has the right, automatic right to appeal. Rachel Bratt: So helpful. Jim Grumbach: I think procedurally, that's that's kind of, yes, it's sort of a preemption argument where the state Rachel Bratt: until it's resolved, eohl isn't going to give us a date, but our target construction start is Q1, of Qt versus second quarter of 2026 otherwise we're doing what we can to be ready to move to construction once we have a better understanding of when we can close on construction loan. And then here's some background on the conservation issue. Maybe this is also illuminating. We spent over a year with ConCom, though most of the time was related to coordination with the peer reviewer, between between ConCom and both Board of Health. The order of conditions was issued in November included several unexpected and problematic conditions, which led us to file an appeal. We had made clear to conservation and Town Manager our intent to withdraw the appeal once an amendment order of conditions was drafted, but conservation never acted. The appeal concluded that DEP issued a more favorable superseding Order, order of conditions, after which conservation voted to appeal further. They've since indicated a willingness to discuss settlement, and we're hopeful this could be resolved in the coming weeks. And
Unknown: then so now it's between the DEP and ConCom not EOHLC. Rachel Bratt: I think that's right, okay. And then I think the other thing that I had gotten from him in some other email was we've been approved for the federal tax credits, which is the main subsudy that happened quite a few months ago, I don't think. But there's also an issue of getting state bonds from Mass Housing, because the bonds that we get from Mass Housing also help to reduce the cost of construction. And I think in another email that I had gotten from him, he said that EOL was reluctant to give us a timeline on that until everything else was so but you know, we're in the queue for everything. And you know, these guys are so capable and competent and patient, but it's just taking Jim Grumbach: well, isn't, isn't Jean over now on ConCom, Unknown: or no, she, we are hoping that she, that ConCom will appoint her to this committee Jim Grumbach: but she's not. Oh, I see So, so she's not a member of ConCom. Okay, it would be helpful to know somebody. I don't even know, who's that, who's the Chair of ConCom? used to be Sherre Greenbaum Mary Antes: It's Sean Fair, Rachel Bratt: fair, okay, I mean, Linda Hanson is obviously the one person who writes all of the superseding order of conditions. I mean, I've got all these documents here that she has signed, but it's
Unknown: I could try. Paul Sean, I mean, I sat with him on the zoning board for a year or two. I mean, that was decades. Rachel Bratt: Anyway, you know, whatever's going on seems to be at our end, local level, local problem the state. You know federal credits are lined up. The state knows we need to be in the queue for the mass housing, not the Unknown: state either. More favorable ruling is that you said Rachel Bratt: yes. That sounds Unknown: like another local issue with ConCom. Yeah. Rachel Bratt: And I did try to figure out what it was with the sticking points, but I didn't have time to go through this, and it's pretty dense. And, you know, we have two lawyers here. Unknown: This is, well, Tom, if you're, if you're giving up on it and you want to give it to me, I'll take it. Rachel Bratt: But otherwise, I think we don't have to honestly. I wanted to know I wanted to know more about it. I got as far as trying to print this stuff. I think what Philip has written to us probably suffices for our Unknown: minutes. Well, be nice to know from ConCom, what's the Rachel Bratt: sticking point? If you're okay, that would be great if we can get more information or lean on him a little bit. But
it just would be nice to get this resolved and to break ground by the first or second quarter of 2026 somebody from the church said this was was asking me about it from good shepherd. And she said, Well, she wasn't sure the current priest is quite as supportive as our friend David holiday. And I said it really was out of the church's hands at this point that the archia, since had approved it, the developers would name. I sound true to go along with it, but it is not in his camp at this point, either for or against. He's just kind of inherited. So I don't know anything about that. It's just hearsay a member of the church.
Mary Antes: It's whatever you find out from Tom Tom, if there's something we should do, Unknown: like write a letter, Jim Grumbach: yeah, I will notify you, Rachel Bratt: and then we'll let you decide
Unknown: we must know a different Jim Brownback, I'm looking to delegate Rachel Bratt: tonight. The big item is ADU.
Unknown: Forum.
Rachel Bratt: Kathy, why don't you start?
Unknown: So I think Rachel sent out a second on the final,
Rachel Bratt: third draft proposed. Unknown: This is where we basically went to Planning Board to get their tie in and collaborate Rachel Bratt: a couple of copies, if anybody
Mary Antes: needs it. Part of the comments Unknown: on that. This is the, this is the, this is the blown up version, yeah, unless you Well, this is clean. Rachel Bratt: Oh, I think you Unknown: somehow differently. So,
yeah, the final one in March is date 16 that's covered. Rachel, can I have a problem? Please?
Yes. Anyway, as a result of that, in that prior meeting, we talked about meeting with Anette, informally. And then we went back to Anette with, you know, responding to her concerns, and Robin and we went to the planning board meeting, and, oh, you were both there, I think Jim and Mary. Jim Grumbach: And who's Robin for yourself? Sorry, I think she's Unknown: a chair now Jim Grumbach: she Oh, Rachel Bratt: she's the chair, I think. And I think that I could be wrong
attorney, and she is now the representative. Unknown: She's definitely been delegated on this issue. Rachel Bratt: She had also sponsored. Haven't she been the one to speak a town meeting on the ADU bylaw? Unknown: Do we recall that? No, that is correct. She presented it so she Rachel Bratt: then, kind of now has inherited on the planning board being their spokesperson. Unknown: Okay. Thank so anyway, I mean, I'm not sure that there's so many generations we went back and forth with, we made a very concerted effort to address their concerns. And we, you know, a lot of it, I think, was wordsmithing. I think a lot of it was says to me, it was taking things too literally and getting feeling like we're putting them in a box where I don't think we were, but, you know, again, Rachel been bad with and we made lots of concessions, and it was fine. I mean, it was an agreeable kind of process. I think whenever you're Rachel Bratt: dealing with multiple committees trying to write a document, it's gets difficult, and what came out of it, I think, is fine and clear and satisfactory to go forward now. Unknown: And we gave them things, as far as you know, we gave them the order, we changed the order we had originally. I think what we used previously was, you know, I think seen a document where we, think we shared this before, where we essentially were talking about, you know, the introduction, the overview of the legal product regulations, and then we were going to talk about construction and identifying personnel and that, I think, did react, there was some reaction to that. They didn't want anybody identified who would, in fact, be somebody working for Wayland, or from Wayland who would be a contractor. And I don't know that that's cast in stone, but this is the days of the issue. We had raised DEP sacred name, and a name. And I think Jimmy would mention before when melody, and we didn't even put wind forward as a name at this point, and and basically they didn't want names identified, which was okay, so. So we essentially Rachel Bratt: potential contractors and private business people. And there's Unknown: no reason these people can't participate in the forum, but they won't be identified, as I understand it, as people on the panel, person Rachel Bratt: right, and they can, essentially, they pitch for their product, or they pitch for their right. So that Unknown: we understood that. We haven't Rachel Bratt: sanitized that, yeah. Unknown: And then the now, the septic issues were obviously a concern to the planning board and Title Five, no, we realize it's going to be addressed, that it's an issue. And then we basically took what I think we talked about at our last meeting, which was the brainstorming idea of how to promote affordable ADUs, and we put it as the last panel in part. I mean, I think our pitch to what was talking to with Rachel was the idea that we would gain on a advocacy note, a positive note, a strategy for action. And people leave because we can't get everything done and now, so what the people who will stay will be the people who perhaps are committed to this, or have an interest in this and whatever. But instead of talking about seeing who's gonna end
Rachel Bratt: up front, and that will take most of the hour and a half, presumably, and then the next steps of a ad use when we get to it, or we'll defer to another meeting. So, so what would the next step of where we are is Kathy and I would start, should start contacting the various other people who are supposed to be part of this little planning group. So right now, the planning group for the forum it consists of Kathy Lee and Robin, but we want to start recruiting now. Building Board of Health assess, the conservation Housing Trust, Housing Authority, DEP, new human rights. We'll be looking for as many of these folks as possible to co sponsor this kind of Tom, when it gets advertised, they would all be listed along with the planning board in the house of partnership as co sponsors of the forum. So I think the next step is for us to call email each of those people on that list, and you know, we're now in a position where we can send this to them and describe what we're doing. The date is tentatively set to November 12. Does that work for us?
Mary Antes: Somehow, the 12th is in the back of my mind as a 2/50 event,
Rachel Bratt: then it turns out, for me, the fifth would be better. The fifth would be better for various reasons that the planning board had come up with the 12th because that was a regularly scheduled meeting of theirs. But as for me, I would love to make it the fifth. The things we need to do are, obviously get the co sponsors and line up people for the panels. Unknown: And I think when we're talking about co sponsors, we're not talking about this. This is a done deal at this point. We're not going back right to do what we did with Rachel Bratt: this was the planning board and Robert humble, who waited today, basically, I couldn't move this document into the planning board, and Robert had given me okay. It's been done for I don't know my first draft was two weeks ago, probably yes, but Robert was on vacation, and it just took time, and you just have to kind of wait it Unknown: out. So are the co sponsors of people that are Rachel Bratt: mentioned, yes, bullet, those are the people that we will be recruiting to be co Unknown: sponsors. So that's the boh, the building department, the assessor, Housing Authority, obviously, Katherine, I don't think there's much question with the Housing Authority and the Housing Trust. St Mary works pretty regularly with Mike, that's not a problem. Rachel Bratt: I don't know whether we didn't put the select Word down on this. Should they be just actually sponsored? Unknown: I think they should and and you know what I can do. I can I can contact when I contact Sean Fay, I can, I can ask him to be a co sponsor. They mentioned Rachel Bratt: Tom Okay. Who did we have down? Unknown: We have Linda Hanson, okay, and I don't know her. I, I can always ask him. That contact. Rachel Bratt: I guess I didn't put, I didn't even think to put a select board down, but maybe we should make an overture and see if they're interested. Jim Grumbach: I think, I think we should. Rachel Bratt: So I think the next you're going to contact Sean Fay Unknown: and ConCom on the palette issue. But I can Rachel Bratt: also solicit Jim Grumbach: his interest if he Rachel Bratt: says, Dr Linda, of course we also need a representative on ConCom for one of the panels. Is that not listed? Maybe it's not listed. Just be. So it's just, it's just asking for his endorsement, you know, the endorsement of conservation. Because, yes, there, there are wetlands issues, there are possible issues involved with ConCom. So they're not going to be a panelist, I guess, but it's like appropriate to have them on board. Mary Antes: Maybe
Rachel Bratt: some other things expect attorney brought Unknown: back to Well, I think the other thing we could do, if we wanted, is we could say we've planned out the meeting and we have some panels. Would anybody from these boards be interested? Rachel Bratt: Well, I think you have to do much, yes, too much, because the panels can't be that big. Jim Grumbach: Okay, so I'm not gonna, you're not Rachel Bratt: asking them. You're just, I'm not Jim Grumbach: gonna ask them. I'll just add some notes. You know, if you Mary Antes: have two or three that you could ask about opponent, Jean, Rachel Bratt: oh, there you go. Another another task. You appointing gene to as a representative. So you've got three things. It sounds like, okay, so I have to.
Unknown: So one is power. Two is sponsor, Rachel Bratt: sponsored, co sponsor, along with many other town boards, co sponsor Unknown: the forum. And the third is appoint gene Rachel Bratt: as as a ConCom.
Mary Antes: I have talked with Linda about this. I've sent her several reminders so it's not new to her. I don't know Jim Grumbach: this is a representative to this committee. Yes,
Mary Antes: we haven't had a representative from the conservation for two years, three years.
Jim Grumbach: Okay, Rachel Bratt: okay, so thank you for being patient. Thank you. Thank you for doing so. We do need to contact now, Mary, you're gonna, did you say would contact the Select Board Mary Antes: again and Rachel Bratt: let them know about this? Why don't you just say, I haven't checked the date of November 5 with the planning board, their tentative date was the 12th. Yeah, that's what I have in mind. But maybe if you can open up the fifth or the 12th and see what what their availability is, and you're going to double check if there's something on the 2/50 that would be a deal. Perfect. The 19th gets too close to Thanksgiving, and then after Thanksgiving, it's not a good time with Christmas. The holidays. Nobody wants to plan December. So if we didn't make it in November, we'd having to push it into January, which would be what we would do. Would be what it's what we would do. It's what we'd have to be the 12th of January. You know, early in January. But okay, so can we actually go through this Cathy just quickly? Who's going to call whom we've got the ConCom set? So Jim is going to do that. Select the word is married
Unknown: sport of health, building, building, what do you Rachel Bratt: want to do? Who do you want to call that? I think I had Unknown: Juliet and Rachel Bratt: Nathan, so Board of Health and Nathan and Kathy and the assessor is doing that. Am I doing that? Okay, so we have that assessor and DPW all do actually Jackie's on the Housing Trust. I'll. Local Chair of the House interest you
Unknown: think Mike's gonna wanna? You think Mike's gonna want to do that?
I mean, they don't have to do anything. It's certainly Rachel Bratt: a matter of at your next meeting. By saying, this is a document that's being put out by the planning board and the house of partnership for the forum, you've been asked to co sponsor this.
Unknown: Can we give them this draft? Rachel Bratt: This draft is now public, so Jackie, you can take care of do Unknown: I have an electronic copy of this? How? Do I have electronic copy of this? I can take the document, get rid of the oh, if you order Rachel Bratt: anything, so you make a PDF and send Unknown: it around. Rachel Bratt: I didn't send this out. You might have noticed, six o'clock tonight. What you said, I have the green light.
Jim Grumbach: I did notice you sending it, Rachel Bratt: so I did, and I was trying to get dinner, and I didn't convert it into a PDF. But if you do that and send that around, and then Jackie at your next meeting, if you would propose that, that Unknown: would be great. So it's no work in there, but it's literally the DPW. I think we haven't Rachel Bratt: gotten to them yet,
Jim Grumbach: unless I missed it.
Do you mind Rachel Bratt: if you know Tom, that would be great. Larry and I'll do the assessing, I guess. Unknown: Okay, and that leaves, I got caught on human rights. Dei, that's Jeanette, I'm assuming. Rachel Bratt: So, so we asked her notes that actually I Mary Antes: think Karen Rosen thought, well Rachel Bratt: is on the committee. She can ask the committee Mary Antes: now she has sort of pulled back from the 2/50 so Karen has no man that and the lad, no man, that name yesterday or something, said she was in Argentina, so you may not get her full. Why don't? Rachel Bratt: Who's the chair of the DEI? Mary Antes: Karen,
Rachel Bratt: okay, thank you. So let me go through the list.
Select Board is Mary, building and health are Kathy. Rachel is assessor. Jim is conservation. Jack is Housing Trust. Rachel is housing authority. Mary is DTP, W and Rachel is human rights.
Jim Grumbach: Great. Thank you. Rachel Bratt: So again. Oh, and then we should not only solicit their support, but some of these people also have to be specifically asked if they'll participate. Unknown: So let's go through okay, now I think we should do that after you and I go through the stuff, so we now know what we've go ahead so we have one more conversation. Okay? In theory, though, we might want to have that discussion before we contact those people. No, I think we should. Rachel Bratt: Let's just get their support. I think get their support and also mention, actually Mary. I think the first order of reasons is to find out the 12th and then let us know is the 12th arrival date. And if not, then you have to check with the planning board about the fifth, and if not, you have to look at January. I assume everybody believes that once Thanksgiving, I agree. It's not a point running a forum in December, Unknown: because we don't actually have a lot of buy in already, because we have, by the Board of Health, they were pretty open that night. Rachel Bratt: Yeah, I think this is that performance, Unknown: and Julia also, and whether she's the one who participates on the panel or somebody Rachel Bratt: else, there's a lot of support for this, yeah, and I haven't seen anything further from Robert's website. Whether you know that the Robert and it's, I think it's on the building department website, right? But that's going to be something we want to make sure in. Is clear, and we work with them to make sure that people can pull up the checklist of what do I need to do Unknown: to they had started, and I don't know that we would think it was complete. Rachel Bratt: So I was very clear that we want to be involved in that website, making sure that it is an easy flow of information. They've got to ask you want to put up an ADU? What I have to do? Internal, external reconfiguration.
So that is our that's our update. Is there anything else? Unknown: Kathy, well, I would say on penalty. I think that is where this group can participate in terms of thinking about ideas, strategies, you know, being on the panel, and Rachel Bratt: so let's put that on the agenda for next time when we hope that we have new members where we can put it maybe that, maybe we even own that. Unknown: I think it is our panel, and I agree. We even said it. We said it to them so they start members of whp, yeah, we call the time. We have time to throw our ideas and to sort of dig into them. I think, identify resources. And I think a lot of this is going to be resources and links and websites and that type of information. Well, you now have the building department and the assessor. You think they won't be part of that, not Well, that would be a part of other ones. I suspect they won't be on penalty because they were not interested for you. DEP, absolutely,
Jim Grumbach: my apologies Unknown: are not working, okay,
Rachel Bratt: I mean, and basically, yeah, that's all you need on the panel. And maybe Robert as well. You know, part maybe Robert is participating in a lot of these panels, since he's hotel, Mary Antes: so we're not having like Doug or when, right? That's probably we should be sure to invite them correct to come, because they will Rachel Bratt: have, they can come, they can participate. They can from the floor. They can offer. If somebody says, Does anybody have ideas about costs? The issue was we, there was no sense that we wanted this to be an opportunity for people to promote their own but if somebody, a participant, wants to say, Well, I've done, you know, three ADU of under 900 square feet and like it cost one family physicals another, Unknown: and the planning board meeting that we did attend, I mean, Sackler was driving back from Maine or someplace, and he indicated that he was willing to share information that he had, I'm sorry, the architect, in terms of costs, all we wanted he could do that from the floor, Rachel Bratt: so he's not being validated us or given A Unknown: special podium, like putting the panel, the planning board, in a position that they Yeah, Mary Antes: but, but I think we should Yes, specifically, anybody know, Oh, absolutely, Rachel Bratt: that he's welcome to participate, yeah, but not, but not that he's not being officially sanctioned. Like, like the town to present this information, yeah, because, I mean, I think those were all important points. And I mean, Robert keeps reminding us, appropriately, that every case is different. There's no cookie cutter for this at all, even, you know, one yard versus another yard, and ADU and one yard will require this amount of work. And ad, you know, reconfiguring interior spaces, it's all Unknown: but I think one, one thing we bring to the table is we are sort of free flowing and creative. We we don't have a lot of rules. We're, we're not a formal committee. The Planning Board had is a formal town committee. They have a, you know, they have to bylaws. They've got to fit it into boxes. We don't have to fit into boxes. And I think that's an important part of this that we should take advantage of. Mary Antes: Now, you had a neighbor who was trying to build them. Unknown: Well, they they built it and it was not sanctioned because of all the all issues with the building department.
Rachel Bratt: So yeah, Unknown: and I'm sure, I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. They, you know, they've tried, and it's very frustrating when, when you know you can't fit into the exact things. And, you know, I so I can, I can talk about the fact that there are people in town who have essentially done this, but not with blessing of the town, because it's been so difficult to dig into the bylaws and regulations. But here, with this new statute and the revised by law, what we're trying to do is make it less difficult and more cost efficient and easier, so that people don't want to run away from it, but they want to embrace it, because then it will be formalized, and then it may enhance your property value more, rather than leaving you in this gray zone. It would be wonderful Rachel Bratt: if we can get a little bit of movement. I mean, we don't know how much, Unknown: but there is resources out there. This is from 2018 and this is from basically California, which is where Gene was actually talking about before twice. This guy's name is Cole Peterson, and he's got all sorts of material on the internet. And it's just used from Amazon. It's already mocked up. Anybody's Welcome Rachel Bratt: to when it's that easy to use. It's totally on. Unknown: It's called back to a revolution, the definitive guide to ADU development, and it's basically there was a section on affordable ADU and promoting affordable ADU. What's back to a revolution. Rachel Bratt: You got it used on Amazon? Yep.
Unknown: Guys called Kol Peterson,
Rachel Bratt: sounds like a good read. Yeah, Sen or
Unknown: thank you for finding that. And when did you say that was 2000 18,018?
And so it's giving a lot of examples from what they're doing in different places, basically from the West Coast, Oregon, Portland and also Austin, Texas. And can they go? Okay, more progressive cities, okay, but it is interesting, and it's again, promoting strategies for change, for things that actually could work and how to do it, and talking about an advocacy role, and talking about holding phones, very exciting support and stuff like that. It's pretty much what we've Rachel Bratt: been doing. The one thing that we're not dealing with, which is not fun. I wish they were a way to have some kind of low interest fund so that somebody could, let's say, borrow $5,000 or $10,000 to try to, you know, jump start their project with, you know, a below market, you know, 2% interest rate, 3% interest rate, so that I don't know if you know, I don't know if the trust would do anything like that. It gets complicated. Mary Antes: I mean, we do repair and something else, right? We've never talked about them. They do have home improvement. But it's really, Rachel Bratt: I mean, when you're
Unknown: trying to do, I mean,
Rachel Bratt: again, if you're trying to get a union built, and somebody says, Well, this is going to cost me 10s of $1,000 but if I got a really low interest loan for a third of it, let's say that might be the sweetener interest rates with that quarter Today, that is going to make a big difference. Unknown: But, yeah, I was actually looking this small this morning in terms of the capital cost being the major hurdle was ultimately out there talked about and the incentives to building, trying to overcome how to reduce capital cost development, how to market ADU is locally through earned media, in creating a sense of urgency by placing deadlines on incentives. The key is, what are the incentives and then building trust in the ADU permitting process? And I think that is something if there was when we talked about description of the group. That's what we were trying to get at when they I think they get a little caught up in it. But it was the idea that this permitting process, it would be clear, they're clear guidelines that they would be we talked about pre approved. They didn't like that term to be able to like they would take it too literally. But the idea. Was that there is a process, and that process applies to everybody. You can oh no, and there's a checklist that you know is gonna apply to you. It's gonna apply to me, and it's not gonna worry about whether, yes, every unit may be different, but you know what, I can still come with that you and I are basically gonna have the same criteria, and that's what people need to know, so they're not gonna feel like they're gonna get screwed. Rachel Bratt: I mean, I think the conversation of incentives, financial incentives, that is another conversation whether, and I don't know where we would have, it would be with the housing trust or the CPA, but I mean, those are our sources of kind of just earmarked for housing, kind of discussions and CPA Community Preservation Act, you know that, Unknown: right? Okay, this money from all the real estate transfers? Rachel Bratt: No, it's actually a surcharge from our property, right? Okay, so if you look at your property tax bill, which I know Unknown: we all love to look at, Rachel Bratt: there's a line item that says CPA on it so this, and that is, I think, one and a half percent of the tax obligation every town could choose either not to participate or to go up to 3% and we chose one and a half percent. And the idea was, early on, the state was going to matching funds. So if Wayland raised, let's say, a million dollars in CPA funds, that we were supposed to get a million from the state, that ratio has changed. And I don't know what I don't know what the matching is. Now, it might be very little at this point, I think, anyway that gets into the means of the statute. But the point was, the incentive for the cities and towns to levy this extra tax was that there would be some state money and and it had to go to one of three activities, at least 10% each year had to be allocated for housing, historic preservation or open space. So those were the three activities. And each year you have to set aside at least 10% each of them, but you can go out, and that's where the trust gets its manual contribution. Mary Antes: Every every year, we get that 10% Rachel Bratt: and you can get more for housing if you apply for right? So it's not it's not a maximum, it's a minimum, but it's an assurance that each of those activities get at least 10% Unknown: and is that, are those the only three types of activities? I mean, Mary Antes: open creation is, Rachel Bratt: yeah, open space slash recreation is what kind of it ended up being. And there were, there were debates about, can you use that money to redo the track field at the school trip. Yeah, so is that open space? Is that? You know, where does that fit in? But it was, it was open space. It was not in the statute of recreation. Okay? At recreation, somehow, I
Mary Antes: mentioned that there is a group. Metropolitan Area Planning Committee has started gathering representatives of housing trusts. They've had two meetings so far. The third one is tomorrow. At the second meeting, they talked about the real estate transfer, and Carmen and Gentile is has a bill, and of course, they're looking for people to support it. This would be a Rachel Bratt: transfer tax. Might be Mary Antes: similar. It would be similar to CPA, and would be a percentage. And there's all sorts of flexibility in the amount and what it goes for all afford for affordable housing, but Rachel Bratt: was there was this for all property transfers, or just certain properties like over? Mary Antes: Well, I think it's the it's very flexible. They're giving us an update tomorrow on where that is. We really can't say when you support it, because, you know, we're a town valley, but I would like at some point for some discussion of the trans of that, and see if, if there's interests. Rachel Bratt: Yes, well, I mean, the transfer tax has been used in a number of municipalities, including, I believe the cape, I believe Nantucket, maybe northeast Indian also, I don't remember, but I believe they've got the transfer tax. And I know transfer taxes exist elsewhere. I just, I don't know where Mary Antes: and how much and the bill is to make it available to anybody like the CPA right now, if I want to do it, you have to
pass it at town meeting and then give it to the your representative and hope that it'll go through and it doesn't always. So this is, as I understand it is, to make it an easier process. Unknown: So would be done on town wide basis. Wouldn't be a state mandate. Rachel Bratt: It sounds like a stay in a statute, and I mean, unlike it's not clear what the incentive would be from the state with CPA, there was a cash incentive that made sweetened the deal for towns to adopt this, I Unknown: don't know, and especially now With the uncertainty of health care and everyone else, education. I don't know what people are going to be Mary Antes: willing to when I mentioned it to Brian, he said, Oh, no, not another task. And of course, he's very much in favor of affordable housing. So, you know, it may not go anywhere. But I think it's worth a discussion. They talked about, you know, like we could get a million dollars.
Rachel Bratt: Well, sure. I mean, depending what you know, let's say all homes over a million dollars, most find many homes that are under all homes under million dollars, pay 1% whatever. Anyway, you know, then you come back to the question of, okay, we've got this money. Where do we build it? I mean, that becomes our age old. Problem is, even if we have the money, you have to find land, you have to have, Mary Antes: but I wonder if it could be used for ADU. I think, I think we know
Rachel Bratt: things are going to get a lot to get a lot worse before they get better. So whatever we can do to soften the blows of whatever's coming, yes, what we're trying to do.
Unknown: And then one of the other things remember that the planning would be, that was Anette brought it up, the idea of the condo conversion, using that as a mechanism. Rachel Bratt: If you've got a primary unit out of ADU, they would each become their own freestanding condo, right? Unknown: So you wouldn't be as it would be an incentive to de restriction. It wouldn't be the disincentive for de restriction, as opposed to like there currently is, in terms of people fearful of acting on their property. Rachel Bratt: Somehow, I feel like that's such a long shot. I mean, as Unknown: I don't know any general opinions that is exerted to encourage town, there's a case already.
Rachel Bratt: Georgetown, Massachusetts as a homeowner, wanting to go from having full independence on your property to constraining it by being in a quote Congo association with another family, I don't know. It doesn't strike me as, oh, that's a great idea. Let's everybody jump on Mary Antes: I don't Unknown: know if you, especially if you're thinking in terms of a way for an income property, in a way to Anette was telling but she didn't see the point if the property was used to have a sort of number of square feet, and that you thought it would be a reason for subdivided property, as opposed to Congo conversion. But for people who aren't going to subdivide, but who basically would be, there's a lot of people who are oversized or large homes, and you can imagine them, well, it's worth the conversation, is what it is. And get or give people options. In other words, there's nobody to be in business. They write what they want if it's allowed. And that's the question is, is it allowed? Is it authorized? This case, I think suggests that the state is open to it. But in any event, I've been looking at the attorney general opinion, that's how they're coming down. Is this is. Relative to dealing with the ADU Rachel Bratt: housing person Unknown: dealing with the ADU and interpretations, so I've been just looking at them to see what they're doing. Rachel Bratt: So I think that probably concludes the conversation about planning for Mary Antes: the ADU. The only other thing on the agenda is the annual report. Thank you for taking
Jim Grumbach: care of the
annual report. No, it looks Rachel Bratt: good to me. Unknown: I were you looking for changes? I thought it was.
Rachel Bratt: I've been
Jim Grumbach: writing on the back of it for Unknown: my minutes here, there's only one, and I'm not, at one point, it refers to promoting the use of the law. And I think, I don't think it's promoting the use of the law. I think it's promoting the development of ADU through the law, the new law, that's all. Comment, please.
Rachel Bratt: Okay, it's it's sort of the bottom. It's the first full paragraph on the summary. Town Meeting approved the proposed bylaw by a largeman majority. The whp is planning a town forum to promote the use of the new bylaw. And how quick Would you like that to Unknown: say, Well, I would say to promote development of ADUs through the new by law,
Rachel Bratt: to promote development Unknown: ad use.
Rachel Bratt: That's very nice.
Well, I I move that we accept a sound report with the revision. Jim Grumbach: Mention second.
Mary Antes: Jackie, yes. Kathy,
Unknown: yes. Maybe tonight, this may have already been picked up. This is just, this is not a substantive shame. It's on the last paragraph on the second page, Committee continues,
including the two local developers. I think it's interested in building. Jim Grumbach: I'm sorry this
Unknown: is Oh, yeah, interesting.
It requires a new boat. Beautiful. It was really nicely done. Excellent job.
Mary Antes: Sent you an email about do HLC having ADU presentations on the 30th of September and second of November, in case anybody,
Unknown: and by the way, Anette Lewis forwarded something to us.
Cost 75
Rachel Bratt: so Mary, remind me you sent me. You sent emails about the OHC on 18 Mary Antes: years, yeah, ADU to ADU presentations, Rachel Bratt: and that's an email from me. Mary Antes: Well, I forwarded it. Okay, I think Unknown: I like to make one revision. We've now approved the Annual Report with two edits instead of one, same motion, same five, zero vote. Rachel Bratt: Everybody's comfortable. Thank you. Okay, got it. Mary Antes: Thank you. The next
Rachel Bratt: meeting, let me just say one other thing I know. In the meeting before last, we talked about Catherine, and I doing kind of some overviews of housing issues, and I think we're prepared to do it. But given the ad, you know, and get a bunch of topics that people want. More background, and since we have some new memories, but I think we should just put that all through that Catherine and I were in touch and came up with the mini agenda, but that got shelved with the ADU stuff, and I wasn't at the last meeting. So I just want to say I haven't forgotten about it. I love talking about this stuff, so I'll be happy to go through some of the housing issues history programs, but right now, I think we've got to focus on the ATD forum getting all that done, but it's in the back Jim Grumbach: room. I guess that's good point. Rachel Bratt: So we don't have
Unknown: to vote on the consensus is to Rachel Bratt: postpone. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just offering to postponement Jim Grumbach: until after the ADU Mary Antes: form. Yeah.
Unknown: I Okay, so the next meeting we're talking about mid October, and are we going to stay on Wednesday Rachel Bratt: nights? Wednesday, Mary Antes: my niece is coming on the 15th, which I think is a Wednesday 22nd and my daughter is coming on the 23rd which I think is Thursday, Thursday. So 22nd to 22nd 22nd Unknown: is good. I actually had a trial which is scheduled to end on the 22nd so the 15th, so let's say October, 22 at seven o'clock Mary Antes: in person again. Or Unknown: how do you guys feel about getting out tonight? It actually was fine. Rachel Bratt: I was tired when I left my house. I feel Jim Grumbach: this time it's nice to see guys face. What do
Rachel Bratt: you feel Jack? I'm up for it
Mary Antes: in person or Zoom Unknown: probably easier? Rachel Bratt: Well, no, it's easy
Unknown: to be in person because I don't have a problem with being a guardian for whatever reason, nobody can hear me. Yeah, you know the problem with Zoom is there are times that somebody's computer perhaps out, or they don't get invited. We've had enough time so Rachel Bratt: you want in person? Yeah, we'll do it Mary Antes: in person. Maybe in the winter. We'll go back to zoom or something if we have a winter. So now I
Unknown: so in favor.
HRDEI Committee
Heather Pineault: So this is the
human rights. diversity. equity
inclusion committee from
Wayland. It is September 16.
2025. and I'm Heather Pineault.
the vice chair and calling the
meeting to order at 6:05pm.
Let's begin with a roll call
vote. Please a roll call for who
is present. and we'll start
online. Asma. please state your
first and last name.
Asma Khan: Asma Khan. present.
Heather Pineault: Sarah. Sarah Shtutin: Sarah Shtutin present.
Unknown: yes. Mary Ann Borkowski: Mary Ann Borkowski. present. Kevin Goodwin: Kevin Goodwin present.
Heather Pineault: Yauwu. Yauwu Tang: Yauwu Tang Heather Pineault: Heather Pino present. And we also have Robbie here running our equipment and as an observer today. we have Sophie Chen. very exciting news as our new one of our new student members was appointed last night by the Select Board. but needs to still be officially sworn in and talented. so she will be joining us. but thank you for for watching us tonight. Welcome. and I will begin with the statement one may watch this meeting with the link that is found on WayCAM website. Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in person and via remote means. in ordinance with applicable law. this meeting may be recorded which will be made available to the public on WayCAM as soon after the meeting as is practical. when required by law or allowed by the chair. persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so by in person attendance or by accessing the meeting remotely. As noted above. we request public comment be limited to two minutes per person. and I misspoke at the beginning. the meeting link is found online on our agenda on the town of Wayland website. the indigenous land acknowledgement today. as we begin. we would like to acknowledge the following indigenous peoples on whose traditional homelands we live were gathered today. the Massachusett. the Nipmuc. the Wampanoag and the Pacheco. We acknowledge their ancestors. particularly carto of the Massachusett tribe. who was steward of much of the land now encompassing Sudbury and Wayland. When European settlers arrived to colonize this place in 1638. we seek to understand. acknowledge and remember the painful. ongoing history of war. genocide and forced removal of indigenous peoples by European settlers. And we offer a living celebration of the indigenous communities who are not just part of the past. but who can continue to live and make new history here today. may we all commit to deepening our relationships with indigenous communities and to being their allies and working for justice.
We will now see. Is there any public comment? Robbie Bullard: No one online Heather Pineault: No public comment. we're going to begin tonight with our discussion and possible vote to approve the August 19. 2025. meeting minutes. Does anybody have any changes. I have a few. oh. that I've received. but I just want to give everybody a chance first. Anybody else. Asma. I'll just so you don't have to try to get these in real time. I will send you the changes. There's only one that's substantial. Is that? Okay? Perfect. So Karen had a few things she noticed so on the number five conversations for change. This should read the committee discussed co sponsoring because we weren't developing it. So the committee discussed co sponsoring a facilitated community. community conversation series. That's all part of what's written there. Members express strong interest in CO sponsoring the series. with which is being organized by the Wayland library and the Wayland historical and society with professional facilitation. So the point of the change in that is just to clarify and make it clear that we're not actually running it. We're co sponsoring it. Number seven. if you're. Following along. We just are striking the word initial the initial findings. because the report is now complete. so it's not they're no longer initial findings. And on number 10. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't catch this was a typo. publicizing the events. we forgot a T and in the documents. reviewed the community life and executive engagement report the and ended up in the wrong place there. I had a question about number nine. did Karen and yeah. when we left the meeting. was the intent that Karen and yeah. we would draft the report. Yeah. well. were you going to help Karen on the the annual report? I think so. I think that's fine. because that was the plan. and then Karen ended up being able to do it. But as of the meeting time. that's what we've discussed. So the only substantial change was to the community the conversations for change and making it clear that we weren't developing it. we were co sponsoring the program. Does that make sense? Does anybody have any questions?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I think we can vote on it. Heather Pineault: if you are comfortable voting on it as amended. I would love to have a motion. Mary Ann Borkowski: I move that we approve the August 19. 2025. meeting minutes as amended. Heather Pineault: Awesome. Is there a second?
Sarah Shtutin: I'll second. Heather Pineault: Was that you? Sarah. yes. Asma Khan: thank you. Heather Pineault: Any any discussion on the motion? Okay. we'll do a roll call vote. We'll start with you. Mary Ann. please. Mary Ann Borkowski: Mary Ann. yes. Unknown: I don't Oh. you're Oh. yeah. you no. well. Kevin Goodwin: was I here? Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. yeah. I picked you up. Heather Pineault: No. no. Kevin was absent. You're right Mary Ann Borkowski: that's right. yeah. right. Another meeting. Kevin Goodwin: right. So I'm abstaining. Heather Pineault: Okay. Kevin is abstaining. Yauwu. Yauwu Tang: yes Heather Pineault: Yauwu. yes. Sarah
Asma. Asma Khan: yes. Heather Pineault: And Maya. I'm not sure if you were here to catch that or not. It's up to you whether you're comfortable voting on it. Maya Raj: Yeah. I did not hear what you said. I'm sorry. Heather Pineault: Okay. so why don't we leave you and Kevin is abstaining just from the vote because we made some changes to the minutes. but the motion carries with the exception of Kevin and Maya abstaining. And welcome Maya. nice to have you.
Maya Raj: Thank you. Heather Pineault: You're welcome. All right. moving on. Number four item number four review of the annual town report due September 30. with a possible vote to accept in your packet. You found our draft report. and it's the same format that we've used in previous years. Mary Ann went through minutes from throughout the year and put them into sort of the template we have. We do have a word limit. or a character limit. I can't remember which it is that we are. We're at that being said. if there are things that are missing and we need to go back. we can work on it. They are due September 30. So we need to finalize what we're looking for tonight. Does anybody have anything to add or comments on the annual report
that? All right? Yes. we're moving right along. because we have a lot to do tonight. Would anybody like to make a motion to
what would we do. approve the our annual report to submit. to accept Mary Ann Borkowski: accept Sarah Shtutin: Sorry. I just have a I just have a quick question. Yes. of course. Thank you. Since I'm a new member for 2526 My name is not on the report. which I understand. so do I vote? Or
Heather Pineault: Great question. yes. yes. because you're on the committee now. so you're either approving for it to go forward or not. It's not like the minutes. even though it does represent what we did. or if you don't feel comfortable. you are also welcome to abstain. but because you Sarah Shtutin: I don't feel comfortable. just I wasn't there for all of these amazing things that you guys did that. Heather Pineault: oh. that's totally fine. And I think that. like you said. that's reflected in that you weren't a committee member at the time. Yeah. totally up to you and your comfort level of voting. but you're welcome to Would anybody like to make a motion to accept the annual report? Kevin Goodwin: I make a motion that we accept the annual report
Heather Pineault: due to September 30 to Kevin Goodwin: September 30 2025 to accept it. Heather Pineault: Thank you. And do we have a second for that motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: I second it. Heather Pineault: Thank you. So we have a motion by Kevin and a second by Mary Ann to accept the annual report for the hrdic due to the town on September 30. 2025 and this will be the 2025 annual report. All in favor. Let's start on zoom this time. Maya.
Maya Raj: yes. I'm in favor. Heather Pineault: Asma. Asma Khan: yes. Maryam Libdi: Sarah. Sarah Shtutin: yes. Heather Pineault: Yauwu Yauwu Tang: yes. Heather Pineault: Kevin. Kevin Goodwin: yes. Heather Pineault: And Mary Ann Mary Ann Borkowski: Yes. Heather Pineault: and Heather. yes. So we have a unanimous vote to accept the town report with thanks to Karen for all her work in pulling this together. We're on Agenda Item number five. fall statements. update Mary Ann not to put you on the spot. Is there Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. no. unfortunately. I did not get to it. Heather Pineault: Yeah. I My understanding or my memory and correct me if I'm wrong. Was we were also going to talk about like. seeing if anybody would like to help you find representatives who are representatives of the community for whom we are making these statements. Help revise that Karen offered. But if anybody else would like to work with Mary ann. it would be great to not just have Mary Ann have to do this by yourself. It's a lot Mary Ann Borkowski: well. it's well. I mean to all the statements. huh? All the fall statements. Yeah. yeah. Heather Pineault: And we're already up to September. Kevin Goodwin: Do we mean when you say fall statements. do we have statements for winter? Statements for summer? Heather Pineault: Would you like to clarify? Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. it's there on a monthly and actually this the. I think it's Hispanic heritage. and it is actually starts September 15 and and then we have a domestic abuse month and indigenous. indigenous capital day and month. Heather Pineault: So when we say the fall statements. it's only because they they're coming up right now. Kevin Goodwin: okay. all right. Mary Ann Borkowski: and doesn't obligate us to look at all of them at the same time. that's for sure. Heather Pineault: But we did talk last time about wanting to update them a little bit and get some fresh eyes from community members. So Karen is happy to help you. unless somebody else is interested in working on that. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. it might. you know. I think we'll reach out beyond the group to see if we can find some representatives of those identity groups so that we can. you know. feel that we've gotten some perspectives that are are from that community. that the statement is about. So and I'll work on that harder next time. Heather Pineault: And yes. thank you very much. And also. Karen's will help you with that as well. Great. Does anybody have any questions about the so called false statements?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I think maybe you know it might be kind of convenient and think about students too. particularly because. because. you know. there's a whole group of students in the in the high school. and we might be able to involve the high. How hard would it Maya for you to reach out To the students. like for the Hispanic statement. or indigenous statement. Maya Raj: Um. not too hard. but it does. like. depend on what you want to do regarding it. Like. if it's just a simple email. then it's super easy to do. Mary Ann Borkowski: And what did you say? Well. what I wanted to do was like. you know. take. take a look at it and see how they felt about it. Maya Raj: Oh. Okayy Mary Ann Borkowski: chance to rewrite it to see you know how language changes relative to certain issues. social issues in particular. And we want to make sure that our language is sensitive and is is what is the the current thought on these particular issues. so Well. maybe we'll reach out to you after. Maya Raj: okay. Heather Pineault: yeah. if you. if you're willing. we have statements already written. So it's not rewrite. it's not writing a statement from scratch. It's taking a look at what we've had in the past and giving feedback. Mary Ann Borkowski: right so that we need to change it. Heather Pineault: So Mary Ann will reach out to Maya. Thank you. That's great. Okay. moving on to our agenda. Item number six. discussion of the Wayland festival planning updates. including a possible vote to authorize payment to arts Wayland in the amount up to $9.500 for expenses related to the festival. And I won't go into all the details of that quite yet. Why don't we start with any updates about the festival before we get to the vote on the budget. Yauwu Tang: We just had a meeting a moment ago so sorry I was late. It's moving on very well. Performance stuff is online now. the interface we step away the schedule with three months in the final stage. we have 52 tables doing great job. and most is Mary Ann's PR. PR side. Bravo for lot of human cut in. rather everything. Heather Pineault: Oh. wait. say something Mary Ann? So it swings around and it takes a picture. You gotta talk so that I will just say Hi. Tom. hello. owl. Mary Ann Borkowski: owl. owl. well. I'll be talking in a minute because I needed to ask rotate to
Yauwu Tang: not that A frame of the banner.
Heather Pineault: Here we go with our new
it's it found me. Yeah. oh. I did see it. Am I can you guys see this? Oh. there we go. If I Talk so this is the sign. Mary Ann Borkowski: a yard sign. Heather Pineault: and the yard sign. And do you need places to put it? People to volunteer? Are you set? Mary Ann Borkowski: If I did want to ask anybody who's on a major road? Yauwu has one in front of his place. I don't know. Heather. I think we put one last year at the last multicultural festival. So if you want to take one. okay. and Asma Khan: I can take one up on Concord. Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. okay. that'd be great. So what shall where can I leave it? Kevin Goodwin: Does anybody know if the Wayland Post will be covering the Wayland festival? Mary Ann Borkowski: I don't know. I they're supposed to be writing an article for the next edition. But Asma. how can I get to this to you. or I could drop it off. Asma Khan: Yeah. we can coordinate something offline. Mary Ann Borkowski: Okay. what's Heather Pineault: your address? Oh. you don't have to say that online if you don't want okay. yeah. I'll text you. Mary Ann. okay. Mary Ann Borkowski: so what I did want to say. we are also having a table at the festival. So now what I'm planning for the table. not dissimilar to other table. The other table we had. we were going to have a couple of books on with our statements. So they're kind of like this. you know. kind of a listed our statements. It did have some of our events. I think I'm thinking of changing it to the annual the annual reports. We have three annual reports. and I'm not sure who really. you know. I'm not going to tell you. anyone looked through them. but I think. you know. we should. we had. should have something about what we've done. so that if people come by. we're going to have pens. These are the pens from the Wayland Spirit of Community Workshop we had. So we have some left over. So we're going to be giving those out. We're going to have some sort of activity. I got friendship bracelets for to give away. I wanted to have our immigration resources list. List there. And obviously people can go to the Resources page. I'll tell people where they can find it. and we have that community conversation with the Middlesex DA. so either I'm making a flyer or they will make a flyer. Anyhow. we'll have a flyer and we'll have a QR code. QR code has. you know. so that people can just so that's what I'm Oh. but I'm looking also so for tents. checking to see if anybody has a tent. Kevin Goodwin: Sarah has her hand raised. Mary Ann Borkowski: Sarah. you have a tent? Oh. thank you. Would you? Could we borrow it? Sarah Shtutin: Oh. no. I do not. No. no. I do not have a tent. That was before my hand was raised on whether we want to put a sign out in front of Happy Hollow. Mary Ann Borkowski: Um. yes. there we are scheduled to put an a frame in front of Happy Hollow. Okay. so a recreation has them. and I'm hoping they'll I'm going to be showing up and offered my services to bring it over. Okay. because I'd like them out. Because. yeah. we just got them yesterday. so now we're trying to get them around. So an Sarah Shtutin: A frame is like a sandwich board? Heather Pineault: yes. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. and we put it by the driveway. all the schools are putting them by all the schools so. and the banners go up next Monday. and then we get to have two banners. and for two weeks. and the other two areas that we can't have a banner. we'll have a sandwich sign. like What I showed you. what Heather showed you so and now actually. if it. even if you don't have a house that's on a main street. if you have a friend. another friend who's is has a house on a main street. if you want to ask me. or ask them. and then tell me and I can drop one off at their house so that they could Have one. like I'm asking someone from my church. she did it last time. So I'm. you know. she lives on Route 20 So. or business. if you're a frequent business person. like. Stop and Shop is letting us put these yard signs Mels we did last last year. So I'm going to stop by and ask them if we can do it again. and so. but you know. so there. you know. you're here. Fortunately. my hair isn't done here in town. So. but anyhow. so if the So. just reach out to me if. if you have another location that we could put one. Unknown: So are you putting this at. like. major intersections? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I'm the sign boards on the 22nd we need permission. So the 22nd we're going to be putting up for two weeks. We have two of them reserved. and the ones that we can only reserve two at a time. So we are putting a yard sign at the other two that we could not reserve. And so there'll be something there for two two weeks. starting next Monday. Heather Pineault: Great. Thank you so much. And in what do you need from us? What are your hopes from committee members. in terms of support? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that's the other one. Well. we have a table. We're there 10 till six. We need some bodies at the table. I'm going to be at the Freedom Team table right next to you. I hope we're right next to each other anyhow. so I can be there some I can. but I can't be at two tables at once. So we need people who will be able to spend an hour or so during this. unfortunately eight hour period. I'm not sure how. late in the afternoon. Yauwu Tang: six hours from 10 to four. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. 10 to Fay. I agree 10 to Yauwu Tang: five to four. You can enjoy the professional music. right? Mary Ann Borkowski: So. anyhow. so if you can anybody here able to commit right now? Yes. Heather. yes. What time can you be there? I'm open and flexible. Okay. 10 till spot. Yauwu Tang: I can fill gaps Heather Pineault: I can fill gaps. I know Karen. I believe she'll be there. Will anybody else be there who could sit at the table for a little bit. take an hour shift. or anything?
Mary Ann Borkowski: You'll come by. You're going to be at another table. Heather Pineault: Yauwu. will be at another table. Yeah. So please think about that. It's a long day. and the more people. the better. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. right. And we want to be present. just because that's part of our message. Is not just the work we do. but that the fact that we exist at all. Yauwu Tang: Also. we want to recruit members so we can have a sign up seats for people in. Was the Mary Ann Borkowski: we last time we did have. well. I had. I don't know if we have a how to join. but yep. join their HR join. but maybe we could have something they could take. Unknown: Yeah. so Mary Ann Borkowski: it's in here. but we should have it not buried in here. We'll put it something out on the table. maybe something they could take. Heather Pineault: So Sounds good. All right. Thank you. everybody. yes. So I suppose the second part yes is there. are there any more? Just Hang on one sec before we move into the possible vote to approve monies being given to arts Wayland. Does anybody else have any sort of more general questions about the festival or anything.
Mary Ann Borkowski: for those of you who may not know. so HRDEIC created a had two multicultural festivals in the past three years. and this year. we decided to join with two other entities that have big events in town. One is touch a truck that is the Wayland recreation department and ArtsWayland would have an Arts Expo with artists selling their pictures and art and performers. And so we thought that that was something we could all do together and have it kind of like be a bigger day. especially since there's. you know. we're doing performances. Our Expo is doing performances. And so anyhow. that's how we got together and and created this one big event just to see how it works out. So we have our tables. whichever displays. and our activities. and. you know. so some of the you know. our multicultural aspects will be there. and our performances. And so that's and this year there's a parade. because it's a 250th anniversary of our country. And actually. you know. how often do we have a parade? Actually. it's going to go down. I don't know how. You know. we must all shop at the town center. but the town center has the most. most center like street. and we're going to this parade is going to go down the center of the street. So it's going to look like the old fashioned parade that go down Main Street. So anyhow. so I just want yeah and Heather Pineault: so to add on to that. thank you. We will also be revisiting. as you know. said after the festival. to see. does this work for for our committee. doing it as one huge festival. or do we want to go back and do a separate one? So that will be a later conversation after we after it's over. So the second part. as you saw. was a possible vote to authorize payment to arts Wayland. A little bit of history here we have money appropriated to us from the Select Board for $9.500. this committee made a presentation. Select Board approved that amount based on preliminary budget numbers. and it is now our job to approve that amount to go to ArtsWayland. One of the benefits of working with ArtsWayland is that the performers and well everybody. will be able to be paid more quickly. because they don't have to go through the same process with multiple votes by us and then by the Select Board for payments directly from the town. I received information from Kelsi. the assistant town manager with this language. So this language has already been approved. and she had some examples of the expenses from Chris Reynolds. who is also working on on the festival. and they account for well over 9.500 for the whole festival. And specifically some of the items. when one in the motion. it says with sound stage 10 festival performance. publicity. food. all of that's well over 9.500 if we want to think more specifically. he broke out $2.000 for sound equipment. sound engineer. sound technician. $3.500 for portable stage. These are estimates. and 4.000 for tents. He also sent me some backup invoice. not invoices. because they haven't paid yet. Estimates if we need more data. But that's sort of that is where the support for our moving $9.500 comes from.
Kevin Goodwin: I move approval that we approve. I move approval that we give 9.000 Heather Pineault: what was it? 9.000 we authorized $9.500 Kevin Goodwin: to ArtsWayland for their work on the wellness festival. Heather Pineault: And I'll just. can I add a little more of the technical language that Kelsi absolutely up to the amount of 9.500 for expenses related to the 2025. Wayland festival. including. but not limited to cost associated with sound. stage. tent. which I just enumerated. festival performances. publicity. food. beverage and other related expenses. So that's the exact language note takers. It's it's what we have written in the agenda. Hang on one sec. Is there a second to the motion? Kevin Goodwin: Second. Heather Pineault: Well. you made the motion to you. You own the motion. It's yours. Okay. Way to go. Um. do we have a second? You try? Good. Try. We'll. we'll discuss it. Hang on one sec. please. Do we have a second for the motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. I'll second it so we can get on to our discussion. Heather Pineault: Okay. second by Mary Ann. Now. are there. is there any discussion on the motion? It's Yauwu Sarah Shtutin: well. yeah. I. I just discussed the budget with Chris as waiting. Actually. this the first time I have the chance to discuss the budget. So at this time. we don't have other community who is going to control or approve any cost. So I. I feel it's premature at this time to have this work. especially mostly bill or discussion is done between Janot and Chris. so she's not here. and I don't feel comfortable to vote this time. so I propose this Tom. and there's no urgent money to be paid this time. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I would just ask. is there. you know. are there some deposits that have to be made for sound and stage? I mean. those were things that were in the budget that we had given to the Select Board. the Select board so that we. and they're very specific. and they're large. and we could allocate. Sarah Shtutin: you know specific items we need to do it. We can approve the line items but us first for the to give Asma proof
Asma Khan: note taker. Maryam joined at 638 she signed on with a link from me. So it's coming up as Asma Khan. but it's Maryam Heather Pineault: just Oh. Thank you. Thank you for letting us know. Maryam joined us at 638 I was wondering. I was wondering how there was another Asma. Thank you. Thanks for letting us know. Welcome. So I'm hearing ya woo has concerns about giving a check without having specific invoices that we're paying tied to it. Mary Ann made the point that there are. are deposits that need to be made. This is coming up soon. and this was all part of the budget that we presented and discussed with the Select Board when they approve the 9.500 Are there any other comments or questions?
Mary Ann Borkowski: It can be amended? Can Can we? Does it make it makes? Is it okay to say. you know that we're willing to. you know. pay half the sound. half the stage at this point to so that we give them some operating money. and we're not going to have another meeting until after this event. Heather Pineault: That's my concern. Is timing wise. we don't meet until October 21 which is right. yes. after the event. which is on the fourth. And people like to be paid. and if they. you know. part of the purpose of doing this was because ArtsWayland. then could pay people more timely. But we won't meet until October 21 after we meet. whatever we approve. has to go to the Select Board for approval and then. So it takes a it won't happen immediately. It will take couple. I think they said usually two to three more weeks. Yauwu Tang: But at this time. we don't even know we're doing. Is already always decided. please. So at this time. we're giving that to another organizations. and we just don't have any control. or we spend our money. I just don't feel that's responsible thing for us to do. Mary Ann Borkowski: us to do. But by not doing that. we are we're relying on these other organizations to handle whatever those budget issues are. And. for example. we're supposed to make some sort of payment to the performers. if you know and the performers are going to want someone's going to be paying them right away. So if ArtsWayland has money. and they're using money. and they're I just don't know how that will happen.
Yauwu Tang: How much we just do Mary Ann Borkowski: it. yes. but there these other bills are going to be due at the same time. or the sound and the stage. We're on the hook for some of this. Heather Pineault: We. I think I hear and understand your concern. and in the past. so everybody knows we usually would get a specific item. it would say we were approving a $500 payment to for the services. very specific. Mary Ann Borkowski: and it took 30 days. and that was took a while to actually get that check cut. Heather Pineault: to go through that whole process. takes a few weeks. and but that's when Yauwu was saying we had very specific we knew exactly what we Were paying to whom and for what. That is true when we had total state control. for lack of a better word. we ran the festival. we were responsible for it all. and so I totally respect and understand what you're saying. and I think we already spoke to the Select Board about this money being used together with other town monies. Park and Rec is is supporting the touch of truck. and then arts Wayland is involved. I My understanding is they knew. and they saw a budget that the whole budget for the whole festival. even our festival. was a lot more than this last year. So we know the expenses are there. and they have. We've already said we would. we've already committed to the $9.500 and so my concern is that this will hold up people getting paid. which was part of why we thought this was a good way to go. Yauwu Tang: but without any last convention. or for us to control. to decide all the money spent you. just for me. if you give up. you just ask willing to decide what's going to how it's going to spend. Just what we want to do. I agree with certain things. Collaborate together. We need to have meditation. which is still to be seen. because so far. every communication between Chris and me. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. so you wouldn't feel comfortable. It's and I don't even know if it might make sense. so you wouldn't feel comfortable. Feel comfortable knowing that the sound stage has to be done. The sound Yauwu Tang: I'm comfortable to do things that we know that were part of the agreement and were approved. Heather Pineault: I can. I can give you some examples Yauwu Tang: For example of dispatches. Budget. I still see the people here. but I haven't seen the budget. I even didn't receive a new budget. We so I took a camera and put this kind of environment. yeah. I totally received Heather Pineault: and that I can't speak to that I know there was a budget at the beginning of the whole process. and I think you you started it right on a spreadsheet. and that's how we got approved. So we know those monies are going to be expended. real expenses. Okay. so we have seen a budget. and we and. and I think it was your spreadsheet that you shared with the budget. and so we know. and we have committed that we would pay the 9500 that the Select Board gave to us. I guess I understand you're wanting to have more information. but I'm trying to understand your concern. Are you worried that people aren't going to be paid. We're only two. three weeks out from the festival now and and so I'm assuming that that this has been figured out a little bit. and I'm sorry you it sounds like you're not getting the information from the festival committee. Um. That you would like. and I understand that. and that sounds extremely frustrating. because you've been such a key Yauwu Tang: we have no input on how to manage spend. Yeah. okay. hold on. The channel was much cheaper devices. so there's no discussion. Okay. okay. I cannot do it . I just cannot come back next month. Come back this folder. Okay. we are not seeing convenient. but we need to do that Mary Ann Borkowski: so you can't see any partial payment. Yauwu Tang: A partial payment? Are you voting? It's
Mary Ann Borkowski: no. your answer is no. Yauwu Tang: I will do it. I will say. but I don't see say. Okay.
Well. $1.000 I think Heather Pineault: I understand. I think what I'm struggling a bit with is when we decided to do this with other organizations. part of that meant that we were giving up some control. because it's not ours. right? It's not just us. so we don't have complete control of this. and part of that was then when we presented the budget to the Select Board and they approved the 9500 was for me anyway. is knowing and trusting that it's part of this group effort. and now that the payments we know are going through arts Wayland. and we also know that the payments total more than the 9500 that we're contributing. because they are also contributing. And so I feel a sense of responsibility to to move the money to them so that we can't so that they can make the payments in a timely fashion. realistically. if we have to wait till our next meeting on October 21 and then it's a few more weeks after that before we get approval from the Select Board to and the checks are cut. or the check is cut. it's just then going to be a good month after the festival before people will be able to be paid. Yauwu Tang: I agree that we have to give up something. we have to discuss things. but I do not agree that we give up 100% and that if you get a budget even rather not being informed. I think that is very. very unusual collaboration. Yes. if you want me to say yes. I really couldn't. I'm sorry. Heather Pineault: No. I understand. And I guess what I'm struggling now with is. do we take a vote on the total amount and understanding that you can't support it. or do you want to make a motion to amend? And we can do it as a two step process and see if people want to do an amended mount. or if people want to do a full amount. Yauwu Tang: okay. I will go.
Heather Pineault: So are you making a are you making an amendment to the motion? Yauwu Tang: Yeah. 4500
Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. Why'd you make it specific to. I mean. I actually. actually the money is the best. Okay. so just half Heather Pineault: and. okay. so there's an amendment on the floor to Yahoo's motion. to Kevin's motion for 9500 that Yahoo is making. that we distribute. How much $4.500 is there any discussion about the amendment to the motion? Does anybody want to give feedback? Folks on Zoom. I'm sorry I feel like we haven't engaged you. or I haven't done a good job engaging you in this conversation. Does anybody have any thoughts. because our first vote will be on whether we approve the motion. the amendment to the motion for $4.500 if that passes. we would just be giving arts Wayland $4.500 if it fails. we would then vote on the motion for $9.000
Kevin Goodwin: or 95 Heather Pineault: sorry. 9500 Thank you. I was just seeing if you were paying attention. Good job. For. That's what I tell my kids at school. Sarah Shtutin: So sorry. Maybe I'm just confused. Is the issue that we don't have specific invoices and we're just writing them like a blank check. and yeah. we don't want to do that for the full amount. even though we promised it to them. Heather Pineault: That is that that's my understanding of Yauwu's concern. And it's. it's not like totally a blank check. but it does. you know. we list. we enumerate on on number six on the agenda. the types of expenses up to $9.500 Sarah Shtutin: but they can't provide us with the invoices from the people that we're paying from the staging and the artists like. that's not possible. Heather Pineault: They don't have all the invoices yet. because they are still negotiating. is my understanding from an email today. I have some examples. and a lot of the folks didn't invoice us like last year. We would get them. we knew what we owed them at the festival. and we'd get that at the festival. as opposed to in advance. So for example. I have one invoice or one quote here for $4.348 for temps. I have another quote for the stage alone. for 3600 and then another quote for the stage and lighting cables and some other things that I don't understand. And that's 5700 so those invoice. those quotes that are coming in are of the magnitude of $9.500 if we just wanted to pick a few big items. and I think that was the intent. was to say HRD. I see here are a few big items that add up to around $9.500 plus we know they're all the performers to be paid and all the other expenses as well. So that's. does that does that help? Sarah Shtutin: Sarah. in the end. yes. but in the end will be get receipts for where the money went. Will there be documentation? Heather Pineault: in the end. for ArtsWayland. they Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. they have to document. They have to document it. There are 501 c3 they're not a Tom and 5013 state. Thank you. Heather Pineault: So so they have to document and they will get invoices that they're paying.
Sarah Shtutin: So we will have in the end. proof of kind of where our funds went. Heather Pineault: We could certainly request that. And as you've seen. we have folks on the committee. And unfortunately. Janot is not able to be here tonight because she may have more information. But yes. we certainly can request that. Mary Ann Borkowski: And we know some of the. I mean. we know we're going to spend all of it and the so to to be our fiduciaries. But we. but if we know. we could give. you know. 1500 for the stage and to that. or at 1000 for the sound. and 2500 for the stage. And do you know. whatever adds up to what our amount is. and then it could go to that. because we know you're going to buy a stage. Kevin Goodwin: yeah. and the test. I have a question that. Yauwu. I mean. I mean. I know you were saying we we had removed the motion for 9500 which was It was no motion. But my question becomes. if we give 40. if we pay 4500 ourselves. what happens to the other 40 50. 5.000 we who? Who does that go to? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that we just have to vote it at a different time? Heather Pineault: Well. I think the question is someone might. either someone's not going to get paid while they're waiting to get it. or I don't. I don't know what ArtsWayland budget is. I'm not sure they have 5000 extra dollars they could front to float while they're waiting. So most likely. it means somebody will wait to get paid until Mary Ann Borkowski: and or we have an emergency meeting with a quorum to try to pass some of these. Heather Pineault: Yep. we could. That's what we could do. is try to get an emergency meeting. We'd need to have at least five voting members at it. So are there any other questions on the motion to amend which. yeah. yeah. Well. made.
Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess I would. I would say. you know. I mean. we have a relationship here. I mean. how does that hurt? Will that hurt our relationship? Kevin Goodwin: I mean. would you say. Say. leave it at 9500 or pay 4500 and somebody. Or. would you say. just. would you say. leave it at for 9500 for us. because we were. we were the ones that were given the 9500 or cut it to 4500 and then somebody ends up in. yeah.
Mary Ann Borkowski: well. I don't you know how. um. how? You know. a lot of things get invoiced to a town that they have to wait. That's not really that unusual. And so that's why I focus on the things that we know. Well. actually focusing on things that we the only things we have listed are the things that that I suspect they could actually wait. you know. it's the payment to the performers and some other expenses that is kind of more immediate. but that it also. you know. we don't have a logical over we don't have a lot of oversight over that. And we could. if Heather Pineault: they don't have the money. we don't have control over who they choose to pay first. right? Mary Ann Borkowski: But. well. I mean. you could give them money that has to go to the stage. I mean. you could say Heather Pineault: that like we could limit it. Well. I the language we have here is a language the assistant town manager requested that we use. Kevin Goodwin: Okay. let me ask you. okay. I'm going to throw in another question. What don't we in this 9500 or 4500 or whatever we choose to pay. Let's say it's 9500 either that night. 9500 for everything. What don't we have control over? Here's my question.
I'm not I'm not worried about the money. I'm asking the question. what in everything that has to be paid for? What don't we have control over? What? What parts of the festival Do we not have control over payment? Heather Pineault: The touch of truck part is my understanding. the park. and rest is doing touch a truck. So the payments associated with that part of the day or touch a truck. I don't know if the Wayland 250 committee has a part. but all of the other things listed. Kevin Goodwin: So touch a truck is not us. Is not us. Okay? So then how? Okay. let me how much is the touchy truck? Heather Pineault: I don't know. because it's not us. okay? It's totally it's part. On the other hand. Mary Ann Borkowski: they did make they paid for these. Oh. that was nice. Okay. this is their budget. which would have gone for touch a truck. Yauwu Tang: They didn't give budget for us. We did not get the budget of ArtsWayland. too many Heather Pineault: Okay. so folks. we have a lot still on our agenda tonight. so I'm going to ask. I neglected. I think I made a mistake procedurally. We had a motion to amend. Was there a second to the motion to amend. We actually need a second to the motion to amend as well.
Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess we can't vote and we have to. oh. I suppose we wouldn't have to vote if we never got Heather Pineault: correct. If we don't have a second to the motion to amend. then we don't have a motion to amend. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I'm just not clear about. you know whether. Kevin Goodwin: if. if. okay. let me ask you this. if we don't have a motion to amend. does it go back to the main vote? Which I think it does. Yes. Heather Pineault: Yes. correct. So is. Would anybody like to second the motion to amend?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I will second the motion to amend so we can vote on it and even further discuss it. Kevin Goodwin: It's for $4.500
Mary Ann Borkowski: so. you know. we never said. We never said. what. how this was going to happen. So we. we didn't really know when. you know when this would happen. right? Other than Kelsi gave you this language which kind of covers everything. Heather Pineault: Well. there's two things. The other thing that I know. if we're concerned about it covering us. a. yes. A. we got the language specifically from Kelsi. but B. the Select Board still needs to vote. So if the Select Board is not happy with the language. the Select Board also could say. Nope. we're sending it back because we want X. Y or Z. and we want more. So it could there. There are two there are two options that there are two possibilities. Is there any more discussion on the motion to amend? Does anyone have any new thoughts that. We have not discussed thus far.
Sarah Shtutin: I will. I'm sorry if I missed this. but if we don't give them the full money is back. enough potentially affect the quality of the you know. if they can't pay people. are they going to show up?
Heather Pineault: I don't have that answer usually. Well. I know from when we ran it the past couple years. we the payments were after the performance. They didn't get paid to perform in advance. At least the people that we were hiring. Mary Ann Borkowski: I know. but that. but some of them did get paid for 30 days. But then some of them didn't Heather Pineault: get paid for quite a while Yauwu Tang: it would pass. probably nobody will.
Heather Pineault: We already have performers lined up. and we have an agreement with arts Wayland. about covering all these costs so youth. So I now. I'm I'm concerned. It sounds like your concern is that if we release this money. that we won't have any of our performers. Yauwu Tang: We can go the time itself is going to support probably close to myself. Heather Pineault: the 10th the estimate for the tent on that was. what did I say. folks. I just said that a minute ago. I have the tent estimate. And I think maybe it was when you stepped out. The tent estimate is $4.000
Yauwu Tang: the stages. Heather Pineault: and the stage is 5000 right? And then that's just a portion art Wayland already committed at the Select Board meeting when. when we talked about about doing this together. our Wayland committed to pay money too. Yauwu Tang: So. but can they use the money?
Heather Pineault: They could use the money to pay these things. but then they don't have the money to pay for the performers. Sarah Shtutin: So
Heather Pineault: that's so that's why I feel like we need to release the money to them so that they can pay everybody. They can pay the performers. and they can pay they can pay all their all the fees associated with the Yauwu Tang: festival. you would have a conversation. yes. but I don't have Any conversation about right? I just got this.
Heather Pineault: I'm sorry. Can I? Can I show you these? I literally just got them this Yauwu Tang: afternoon.
Heather Pineault: because I just got them. and I think. oh. yeah. yes. I don't know. and I'm sorry. that's why Yauwu Tang: I have concerns. not because I want to credit this. I feel I'm not responsible for the HR. Okay. go ahead. Unknown: Yeah. no. I understand them. Hi. This is Mariam. I can understand you. I was concerned. especially that I wasn't around when this agreement was made. Is there a way to if we decide to vote on release of the full amount? Is there a way to release with a guarantee of receiving invoices. I think. as an initial step that may ease concerns and help us preserve that relation by releasing the full amount. Now maybe. yes. that's what I think that was. well. we. Heather Pineault: yeah. that was Sarah's question. It's not. I mean. I. I'm wondering if. rather than doing the amendment to 4500 What if we added language with the understanding or with the agreement that we will receive invoices. or the agreement that performers will be paid with the agreement that we'll receive invoices Unknown: and then set that standard for future partnerships. Kevin Goodwin: Yeah. okay. my question is this. well. here. you know you were saying. Now I completely forgot what I was going to say. I was going back to Miriam. Miriam. what was your question. if we released the complete 9500 what? What. where? What issue were you having Unknown: so we are now. At a moment when this agreement has been made. and preserving the partnership with this other organization is a priority in such a small town. I was suggesting. if we decide to release the full amount. but then have some language that would guarantee that we will know what that money was used for. and then in the future. that will Kevin Goodwin: be. I know. I know what my issue was. You know what? Let me ask you this on the invoices wouldn't. wouldn't the book. wouldn't the Selectmen office have copies of or. the Select Board Office. would they have copies of the invoices? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that's why we're giving it to arts. Wayland is so well that it doesn't Kevin Goodwin: have. well. let me put it to you this way. either way. somebody's going to have any invoices. right. whether it be the Select Board Office. or that's Wayland. yeah. either one of the I mean. yeah. oh. I know you were concerned about the invoice. And then I think you were. either way. somebody's going to have the invoices regardless. Heather Pineault: So what if we add to the motion after the motion? Kevin Goodwin: My point is. why don't we issue them? Why don't we just. why don't we? Why don't we? I mean. we've already approved the 9500 let's leave it at that.
Heather Pineault: Well. I'm wondering. we haven't actually voted yet. We. we. we got approval from the Select Board that we have that that money we haven't voted to. we haven't
voted to authorize the payment to arts Wayland. But I'm wondering if we added on after the language that's in the agenda. with the understanding that arts Wayland will provide receipts totaling set amount. Unknown: would that
Yauwu Tang: still cost? Heather Pineault: Yes. and I feel like that's part of the deal we entered into when we did this. That part of the agreement was we would. we put the budget together that we thought for the whole event and how much we requested for our portion from the Select Board. with the agreement that we would then give it to arts Wayland to make. to make payments. So I was trying to Tom's point. add in a little bit of language that would say. with the understanding that our Wayland would give us a receipt. Kevin Goodwin: So let me ask you this at the Select Board Office. I mean. at the selectman beam. they asked or. or. I would assume EHR DIC asked or a set amount which they gave to us? No. was ours? Well. in there at the time.
Mary Ann Borkowski: um. this was part of that discussion. Heather Pineault: I Okay. I wasn't at that meeting. but. but it was our Mary Ann Borkowski: budget. but it was. but we were asking Kevin Goodwin: for it. But. but who do we got the money? We got it or. I mean. let me ask you this. Then does the then did the gorgeous elect man turn around and say. you have the authority to give so much to arc Wayland. they didn't give the authority to do that. and we're on the hook for that. We're on the hook for the 9500 which is. which is what we were given.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. but Kelsi. I mean. that everybody knew what the intention was. and that's why Kelsi gave us this language. so that Heather Pineault: and the Select Board will have to vote one more time. once they once we authorize it. I have to tell Kelsi that we voted. and then that has to go before the Select board so that the town has permission to cut a check. is my understanding. Kevin Goodwin: Um. which I see no problem with. But okay. apparently. Heather Pineault: yeah. I hear. I totally I hear the concerns all around and I understand the discomfort with how we're doing it and how it's different than we've done it before. and this does require a level of trust with a town organization that we've been working with.
Yauwu Tang: yes or. Challenges do you have Heather Pineault: to I do not have the wording from the Select Board. I'm going by Kelsi. who is the Assistant town manager's wording based on what we were allowed to do with the with the Mary Ann Borkowski: fund. the language
Heather Pineault: that's in our on our agenda here. this is exactly what Kelsi said we were authorized to do and what we needed to ask for. So that comes from the town manager's office or the assistant Tom manager's office. So I'm trusting I didn't go back and try. I didn't watch the Select Board meeting. So I'm trusting that this is what the Select Board needs in order to make the payment to arts Wayland.
yes. well. I can't. I don't know that for sure. but that's my understanding. given the language that we Were asked to approve by the town. So at this point. does anybody have something noi that day. Kevin Goodwin: So in other words. the language you're holding in your hand. we have. we're authorized to approve Heather Pineault: that from Kelsi. the assistant Tom manager gave me this language for us to vote on. So I think Kevin Goodwin: we. I think it would be a wise and prudent idea just to be on the safe side to approve that language. Heather Pineault: Okay. so we have an emotion to amend on the floor. So we have two votes to do. I just want to be clear. our first vote is going to be on the motion to amend the amount that we authorize payment to our Wayland to $4.500 instead of the original amount. which was 9000 to be clear on the procedure. we vote on the motion to amend. If that passes. then the amount is $4.500 instead of $9.000 Kevin Goodwin: or the motion 9500 Heather Pineault: My apologies. if the motion fails to amend the amount. then we vote on the motion for $9.000 unless we want to amend it again. unless we want to amend it again. then I'll be just Like Tom meeting. We can do Kevin Goodwin: that road. Heather Pineault: So we have a motion to amend the amount from 9000 to 4500 and I'd like to take a vote on that so that we can move along. I think we've all shared our opinions on this. Does anybody have anything new that they would like to add to the conversation?
Kevin Goodwin: Okay. Heather Pineault: let's start on online. Please. Asma. your vote on the motion to amend. Instead of 9000 down to $4.500
Asma Khan: yes. Heather Pineault: you agree with the motion to amend? Did I hear that? Right? Sorry. I'm having trouble hearing you.
Asma Khan: Yeah. sorry. going down from 95 to four to 4500 got it? Unknown: I'm going to go with no. Sarah. no.
Mariam. can I abstain? Heather Pineault: Abstain? Maya. Asma Khan: I'm going to abstain. Heather Pineault: Marianne. we're gonna go now. staying and staying. Marianne. no. Kevin. no. ya Woo. yes. and Heather is a no. Sarah Shtutin: You brush your teeth. You went to the bathroom. Okay? It's lane. Okay. okay. so sorry. My kids are going to bed. Heather Pineault: No worries. The motion to amend does not pass with 1234. I'm sorry. 12345. votes for No. two abstentions and the I will one vote yes. so the motion to amend is not carry. which takes us back to the original motion for that Kevin made for $9.500 as is written in the agenda. yes.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. subject to.
Heather Pineault: To agreement of expenses by arts. Wayland and HDR hrdic. Does any is there a second on that motion? Unknown: Can select board? Can the Select Board vote on that.
Heather Pineault: It doesn't matter. it's our Mary Ann Borkowski: motion. I know. but they have to approve something like this. Heather Pineault: They have to prove the expenditure. I That's a great question. I'm not sure we can put a well. is there a second to this motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: I mean. what we're doing. we need it Heather Pineault: really hard. Yeah. this is really hard. and I don't know. but do we have a second to the motion to make the the payments agreement subject to agreements of arts. Wayland. HR. DIC. together. Yauwu Tang: yes. is this motion required? Required by the by the circle one. Kevin Goodwin: we don't the 9500 Heather Pineault: of this motion? Which motion the Yauwu Tang: one to give money to us? Heather Pineault: Directions we have the wording is from Kelsi. who's in the assistant who's the Assistant town manager. We have to take this vote in order to have the money be given to our Wayland. Yauwu Tang: but I understand people want to get money. We. okay. we I think Heather Pineault: we're that's our discussion right now. I think we have to. because we agreed to and I so I want to get back to your motion to amend. Is there a second to this motion to amend? Because if. if there is a second. we need to discuss it and then vote again. and if there's not a second. then we don't have the motion.
Okay. hearing no second. we are going to go back and vote on the motion that Kevin made. I will read it in its entirety so that we're clear. Kevin moved to authorize payment to arts Wayland up to the amount of $9.500 for expenses related to the 2025 Wayland festival. including. but not limited to cost associated with the sound stage 10 festival performances. publicity. food and beverage and other related expenses we will do. I'm sorry. Sarah Shtutin: I'm sorry. Yes. I know. I know this has been a long process. but I do think there's been several people who've asked if we can amend the language to then have them provide us with documentation or invoices or some kind of accounting of how the money was spent. Okay. does that need a separate motion? Heather Pineault: It needs a motion to amend. Are you would you like to make a motion? Kevin Goodwin: Heather. I think we already discussed this. Heather Pineault: So Sarah. what would you be your what's your amendment? Then to our motion. Sarah Shtutin: my amendment is to have the exact language as Kevin wrote it and you just read it. but to have a line in there that after the festival. we would like an accounting with documentation of how the $9.500 was spent.
Kevin Goodwin: Okay. that I don't have a problem. okay. Heather Pineault: all right. Like documentation. is there a second for the amendment? The motion to amend.
Maryam Libdi: And yeah. we'll second. I second that. Oh. Heather Pineault: yeah. One Miriam. yeah. we'll got in there. Okay. after the festival. we would like documentation as to how the funds were expended. Is. did I get that correctly? Okay? Is there any discussion on the motion to amend?
Yauwu Tang: We still need to aware that we have. we have no control in mind. Heather Pineault: And I think that will be a great discussion point for what we do moving forward afterwards. okay. and whether we're going to do I think we need to bring this to the table as part of the conversation about how this had worked in this joint venture. whether we want to continue doing this. Do we need. More guidelines going forward next time I am not in any way trying to lessen your concerns. just wondering about the timing. I feel like the train already left. and we have a responsibility. We can add this amendment in which will then get us some documentation. which I think is very important. and I'm hearing several people talk about and we will put this on the agenda to discuss at the October meeting about going forward what we want to do. Does that make sense? Unknown: Okay? October. Okay. Heather Pineault: Is there any more conversation on the motion to amend. So once again. we have to do two votes. The first. the first is to amend the original motion by adding. after the festival. we would like documentation as how to the funds were expended. So I will start with a vote here. Ya Woo. Ya Woo. Yes. yes on the amendment. yeah. Kevin.
Kevin Goodwin: I'd say no. okay. Marianne. yes. Maryam Libdi: Sarah. yes. Heather Pineault: Asma. yes. Unknown: Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Heather Pineault: And Heather. I vote yes. Um. that brings us now to the whole motion. um. as is stated in the agenda item number six. plus the amendment. including that after the festival. we would like documentation as to how the funds were expended. So let's do a vote on the total motion as amended. So for the notes it we were voting on the motion as amended. and I'll go back online. Maya. yes. Maryam. yes. Asma. yes. Sarah. yes. ya wo Yes. Mary Ann. yes. Kevin. yes. and Heather. yes. All right. Thank you very much. everybody. I know that was a challenging conversation. and I think it's also really important that we talked about all of that and we were able to figure out something and got a unanimous vote. So thank you everybody for listening to each other together. Unknown: Can we please add to a future agenda to discuss. you know. having policies so we don't want into this again? Heather Pineault: Yep. I put it on the on in my notes for the October meeting as part of the follow up about the festival. Like. Are there guidelines? You know. they're going to be a lot of things we're discussing. Like. do we want to continue to do something jointly as a big town celebration? Do we want to return to our having total control and running a separate festival if we do it jointly? What policies would we want in place? What did we learn from this experience? So absolutely?
Yeah. thank you. Okay. Wow. Say So folks. I need to make some decisions. because I want to respect our time and and I want to respect the importance Agenda Item number seven. I would like to suggest that we come back to that in October. because I don't feel like we can really do it justice and get through the other kind of business items that we have to do. There was a this was presented to the Select Board. I'm talking about the discussion of the Wayland community life and engagement executive report we were going to review theme one. strength and foundations of action. belonging and shared values. But I would like us to be able to spend more than about 10 minutes on it. And I feel like at this point. it's it we. we won't be able to do it justice. Along with that. I would one once. if you have the time before October to check out the September 2 Select Board meeting. Dr even a Hayes and Karen were at that meeting when the committee talked about this entire report. and it was on their agenda for 10 minutes. So it's it would be valuable. in my opinion. if you're able to go on WayCAM and watch that. it might give us. it's giving me thoughts about what recommendations we could make. And I would just suggest. if you're able to watch that. it's about. Want to say two and a half hours into the meeting. approximately. okay. so we are going to put that on hold. I would like to do number eight. Kevin Goodwin: Oh. sorry. I would. I would. I know you should put it on hold. I put it table. It Tova. thank Heather Pineault: you. Yes. Thank you much. Better choice of words. Thanks. Kevin table. Mary Ann Borkowski: with this. is there any value in having someone like lead that discussion. one of us Unknown: lead which discussion? Seven Mary Ann Borkowski: that that each of these as we move our way through doing that so that it will not just like Heather Pineault: you mean the other than the chair. you mean someone in the group would take it on? Yeah. Oh. well. speaking for myself as vice chair. and on behalf of Karen. I'm sure if somebody would like to. we were going to break it up into each of the sections to discuss. If somebody is interested in leading the discussion on any part. please reach out to me or Karen. or to Karen. But that would be. that's a great idea. Asma. Are you able to do the discussion and possible vote on the Know Your Rights? Flyer? Yes. something we would Asma Khan: love to have. Do you want to share the flyer on my end? Heather Pineault: Can Asma share her screen? Can you share your screen? Do you see the green button? Share Screen? Unknown: Yeah. I can. Awesome. This is Heather Pineault: an updated version of what was in your packet. Oh. it's updated from well. updated only in that the QR code. so you wouldn't really see a difference. okay. but. okay. Unknown: do you guys see that? Sarah Shtutin: No. no.
Heather Pineault: no. are you sharing your screen? Yeah.
Kevin Goodwin: we're not seeing anything. I can hold Heather Pineault: up. I can hold up a picture of what. Here we go. Mary Ann Borkowski: There we go. you know. Asma Khan: Yeah. great. Thank you. Okay. all right. perfect. So from Karen's suggestion of getting at least something out there for Know Your Rights. because we weren't able to do an event. we decided to make a very generic flyer of inclusivity. So the idea is we have this flyer that we're able to put up in restaurants storefronts around town. and have this QR code that links over to our website that include different Know Your Rights for groups. And so there's immigration. LGBTQ. domestic violence. and so that's all listed on our our web page. Let me see if I have it up here. Yeah. this one right here. So that QR code links to all of these different links. and so it kind of leaves it open to the reader of how they want to take that message. But I think it's powerful to be able to have up in different storefronts around town just to have that support.
Heather Pineault: So what a we would need to approve that we would like to do this. Thank you very much. I think. personally. I think this is a great idea and something actionable that we can do. Does anybody have any questions about the flyer itself. or what Asma shared with us? Mary Ann Borkowski: So my experience. at least in the town center was and when I look at it. there aren't any flyers on anybody's windows. And I don't know if there's a requirement. but. you know. it makes me think of the you know. things that you know. like domestic violence being in bathrooms and our card. I don't know I we could run but. you know. it's maybe I shouldn't. I shouldn't presume that someone wouldn't. I have no idea. Well. it used to be people used to put up flyers all the time in years past. but. you know. I don't see them doing that now. and I didn't get a good response. Heather Pineault: So and bathrooms may still also work. I've seen these in some similar bathrooms. I do. Did you have any thoughts. or more information about distribution Asma? Asma Khan: I think the idea is to have a few of us go around to different restaurants and stores and see if they would be willing to have it in their like front window display.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. and if we get. as we get feedback. we can adjust. Yeah. I would also say that. you know. there is a Wayland West End or west. And Wayland Rotary. it might be worth it to plan a presentation with them. Val Abbasi from the Village Bank. He belongs there. He could invite us to make a presentation about this and have it available that people might take it. So thank you. Heather Pineault: Does anybody have any folks on on Zoom when we're in share mode like this. I can't see you individually. so feel free to just jump in. because I'm sharing. Sorry. No. no. no. it's great to share. No. no. no. no problem at all. I just can't I just want to make sure people jumped in. Does anybody? Would anybody like to make a motion that we vote on sharing. just trying to distribute. on sharing this flyer. or distributing this flyer around town? Kevin Goodwin: I make a motion that we share or distribute the Wayland with flyer. the Wayland flyer Heather Pineault: the Wayland Know Your Rights. Flyer. Kevin Goodwin: yes. around town. Sarah Shtutin: Okay. second
Maya Raj: I. second that Kevin Goodwin: I. oh. I Heather Pineault: Yeah. Kevin made the motion. I heard Mary Ann second it I think. um. yes. Is there any. okay. is there any uh. discussion on the motion? No.
Maryam Libdi: I'm sorry. I think this is an urgent matter we can there's so many ways we can change this up or discuss further. but I feel like this issue is urgent and needs to be put out in any shape or form. Heather Pineault: Yes. I agree. Maya Raj: I have a question. Yeah. Who seconded? Because I'm taking notes. I'm not sure if it was Maryam or if it was Maryam. Heather Pineault: Okay. so can we take a vote. please? Marianne. yes. Kevin. yes. yeah. Woo. Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Asma. yes. Sarah. yes. Great. Asma. thank you so much. And Heather. you didn't vote Heather. I voted yes. Thank you. Thanks for the reminder. Mary Ann Borkowski: I'm going to add it to our table. Heather Pineault: Yes. that's what I was thinking when you said that at the table. Yeah. no. you're right. So we can have this certainly at the festival and Asma. Do you want to let us know. or send us all a final copy? Or what are you thinking in terms of printing so we get them in color? Or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Asma Khan: I mean. I think right now we're probably. I was thinking to just print out 20 at home and then see where it goes from there. if we need more or less. Mary Ann Borkowski: But if you send me. if you send Mary Ann. the your PDF. I would go and get. you know. 50 for my table. Okay. hoping that maybe some people would take them. Maybe some business people would take them. Maya Raj: I feel like Mary Ann. if you're having it at the table. people being able to scan that QR code should be enough. I think having a fire posted. We're hoping that businesses. people who are. oh. I see okay. have a business that they would take this flyer to. just perfect. right? And. you know. I just go to Staples and and get those made up for myself. Heather Pineault: And we could have a little note saying. scan for more information or take a flyer Mary Ann Borkowski: for your it's probably. you know. we'll be there discussing that. Heather Pineault: We'll be talking all right. Thank you so much for your work on this. and it's a clear. actionable step. something we can do. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. thank you Heather Pineault: so Agenda Item number nine. we don't. we weren't really going to discuss it a whole lot tonight. In your packet. there were two documents that were a bit. you know. from criteria we've used in the past about this guy deciding whether or not to issue an HR dei statement. as well as guidelines for selecting programs. And what we are wondering is there. is there anybody who'd like to take a stab at just drafting using what we have already drafting guidelines with Karen for posting on our Facebook page.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Sign up right away. Yeah. Heather Pineault: don't all talk at once. Um. Um. we have two documents to work from. so we wouldn't be starting from scratch. and the goal would be to bring an example using the two guidelines for us to discuss at our next meeting.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. I can work with Karen on that. Heather Pineault: Thanks very much. Marion. that's great. I appreciate it. Maryam. with Karen. Facebook guidelines. and what we'll do is if. if you both come up with some sort of draft and distribute it to us before our next meeting. then we can talk about it at the next meeting. Thank you. Agenda Item Number 10 is really quick. We saw that there was an announcement. and just wanted to share publicly that the schools had received the hate crime prevention grant. so they're going to be doing specific work around preventing hate in schools. And one thought that was in the Wayland post. There was an article about it. and maybe that's something we could hear from the schools directly at some point down the road. but we just wanted to put it on your radar screens in terms of ongoing business. Maryam Libdi: Oh. sorry. I have a question about what you mentioned. Yes. sorry. was someone else talking? Sorry. No. go ahead. please. I'm just wondering what we know about that grant. like. what's the extent of the information we have about what's happening? Heather Pineault: All that I know about it is what was in your packet. and that was from the Wayland Post article. So we certainly could reach out to the schools and learn more about it and what they're doing. We have invited the leadership from the district to one or two meetings like over the years to kind of share what they're doing. and we could do that again with would that be helpful? Asma Khan: I think that's a good idea. Mary Ann Borkowski: And I think it's a good way to to. you know. Maryam Libdi: collaborate. yeah. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. have a relationship. Thanks. Heather Pineault: Thank you for bringing that up. noted for getting on a future agenda. Any other comments or or questions?
All right. in terms of ongoing business. I have some updates regarding the community conversation with district attorney Marion Ryan. and here we go. The flyer is almost done. so you don't have to worry about the flyer. Mary Ann. Mary Ann Borkowski: other than I want it. Heather Pineault: other than you want it. Yes. I understand that they're getting a QR code for registration. The program will be held hybrid. Ed Berman will work on that with Jailyn. and we'll hopefully have an owl to use this.
Kevin Goodwin: So there won't be a like. an in person meeting. Heather Pineault: It will be hybrid. So it will be both. People can sign up and come to the event online or via zoom or in person. A WayCAM will record the presentation. but they don't have the capacity to live stream from the Council on Aging So. but they will be able to record. DA Ryan will take questions in person or in writing. So either way. we will be using a regular zoom format. because of the district attorney prefers to use that rather than the webinar. where it's just one way and Marianne. not Mary Anne. sorry. Karen is working on a registration form. So that is. that's the update on that program. which will be on November 10. The hrdic in your package. You have the meeting dates. Please note the date at the top should say 2025. 26 Mary Ann Borkowski: that's the dates in the years. Heather Pineault: the years. yes. sorry about that. That is 2526 good neighbors day. So Courtney from the library. we had agreed to co sponsor and be involved with us from 10 to she's wondering about help from 10 to one. It's running from 10 to one on September 22 September 27 help with setup. breakdown. hospitality. running activities. So if any of us can be there. either maybe in a hour or 10 to 12 or 11 to one capacity. that would be great. And it is on September 27 is there anybody who can that knows right now? They can be there for summer. part of it. Mary Ann Borkowski: that's a Saturday too. right? Yeah.
Asma Khan: I can probably volunteer from 11 to 12. Okay? Heather Pineault: Thank you. Anybody else able to do an hour at some point? I will. I can be there. And I'm guessing Karen. if anybody else can come at some point. that would be great. Mary Ann Borkowski: When we send out the notes. why don't you highlight or. or. I don't know. we don't actually usually send out the notes. We won't get the notes before next meeting. I would. I would send out Heather Pineault: an email. Okay? We will send a reminder or ask for names. Yes. sign up. Um. indigenous people's day. just a little bit of an update ahead of that. this regarding the state flag and seal Karen sent an email to everybody it's it's in your your email box about movement that the state committee is taking feedback on proposed state flag and seal options. I looked yesterday to see it was supposed to be coming up like. like. now and still on the state website. I didn't see dates. but they are supposed to be running listening sessions. and you could also email any feedback you have. I think this is important just to mention. because this is something we have. actually. we've taken action on over the last couple of years. Last year. the HRDEI supported the petitioners article endorsing changing the state flag in the seal. Prior to that. we did a program at the library together with the library. So it is an example of something that's actionable. that we can do to help make a difference. and it's something that we can all do individually. So please check out the email or go online. If you look up the Mass State Seal. the mass state flag. you can find it online as well. Yes. I Mary Ann Borkowski: would also say that. you know. it's the pressure that's been coming from the towns have brought the state to do this. I mean. the state had kind of thought about it. They weren't. you know. the Attorney General wasn't. all right. I don't who's responsible. They just weren't getting this group together. So. you know. this is. it's taken a few years. but it's. there's been some movement here. That's the only reason this is on our on the schedule that the state is doing this is because people towns have passed resolutions like we did. and have been saying that this is important. They want to see this so. Maryam Libdi: So what other collective action can come out of our group? Heather Pineault: So as a whole group. I don't know that there's anything as a group. but we they are hosting listening sessions. I couldn't find them when I looked online for the state. so I'm not sure they've been scheduled yet. So again. I was on the mass.gov It's there on the round three selections. and they've got 1.2.3. 3. flags. 3 seal and three flag submissions that are online as well as model submissions. And I think we just need to continue to put the pressure on to move forward and and even ask when it when is this happening? This. It was reported that these listening sessions would be going on. I believe in September and October. So our participation. individually. I don't know. Do you if we as a committee would want to do anything? Did you have anything in mind? Maryam Libdi: I'm not sure what's been done in the past. but I understand our role as communicating these issues to the general public in our town. So I don't know if a statement has been issued about this from our group. but I think something like that. with a call to action for people to maybe join those hearings or something would be. you know. proactive thing to do. Heather Pineault: Maybe a news and announcement. yeah. a news and announcement. maybe on a Facebook post and a Facebook just because it's no. you know. in town. when the petitioners article came forward endorsing the change. that was one thing that we acted on. and we voted it. We voted to support that. So this could be a logical follow up. Mary Anne. can you Mary Ann Borkowski: do something about Heather Pineault: Yeah. and the link. there is a link on mass.gov that I Well. if you do that. but it does. Give any dates yet. right? But. yeah. Maryam. that's great. Thank you. I Are you okay? Working on that? Mary Ann. and then whatever you find. can we share to get on the Facebook? Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess I kind of. you know. I've been playing with the idea about. you know. what Wayland Post does. and i i miss. you know. So. you know. we're looking at a couple of things here that it's almost like an important things that we want the community to know. And I'm thinking of drafting. you know. just like some announcements or something. even if it's referring them to the to our website. but to kind of give them a heads up. because this is an opportunity. you know. because they have the opportunity and obligation as citizens to respond about this. And you know. we know about it. and lots of people don't know about it because they. you know. haven't seen our notices. So. and it'd be nice if it we put it in the Wayland post. So I will. I'll play with that idea Heather Pineault: some sort of announcement that Mary Ann Borkowski: was innocuous not a lot of you know. because I don't feel like I want to add language to it. I just want to make sure that we've shared so that people know that they could. they could have. they could have their voice heard. Heather Pineault: I thought I found a place to vote. but I think it's just online. boss. It doesn't go to the state. I think it's like a Boston news site saying. how would you vote? And it shows all the pictures. which. but I don't think that's official. so that would be great if. Mary Ann Borkowski: Okay. Mary. to their committee. to our committee. No to Kevin Goodwin: to. oh. news and Heather Pineault: announcement in your our website. website. so on our public website. news and announcements. I Mary Ann Borkowski: mean something for Wayland Post and then trying to get an idea about whether they would ever have us be like. in a column like. you know. this is what I mean. we're kind of a unique town committee where. you know. we would have things to say to the greater community about. you know. that we would want to share well. Heather Pineault: And the other question would be. just for the Wayland Post. This is news in the past just few weeks. like it's it's all come up since. like August 28 would be just even? Would they be able to? Would they be willing to? You could even connect it to the fact that the petitioners article last year endorsed this we voted on at a town meeting. right? And could they connect it to the fact that this is coming out. so maybe just flagging it for them will be enough for sorry to do an article. right? Okay. thank you. Mary Ann and Thank you Mariam for always reminding us to do actionable things. Does anybody else have any thoughts on that or any questions?
Okay. does anybody have we're on an agenda item. agenda item number 12 announcements and topics not anticipated in 48 hours in advance. Does anybody have anything?
Maryam Libdi: I have a question. yes. but I'm not very sure if this is the right committee for it. So during my discussion with several parents in town. whether in schools or in soccer. there's this issue of like. you know. sidewalks or like. proper signals along the crossings of the trail. And I know this may fall. it may seem like it falls under another committee. but I'm looking at it from. you know. child protection slash disability lens. and I don't know if there's something we can do to help push some of those changes.
Mary Ann Borkowski: What is the issue? I don't. I don't know the issue. Unknown: So the generally. the the roads in Wayland are not considered very safe just because of how they're geographically constructed. There's lots of places with no sidewalks along the rail trail that we have. There's so many crossings that could be risky for someone older or someone who is challenged. And I feel like. like from a human rights perspective. we should be able to champion specific changes that people want to see
Mary Ann Borkowski: you mean just at anywhere Heather Pineault: it's safety. So it's a long standing complaint or concern. yes. especially with families lack of sidewalks along road. So roads. Mary Ann Borkowski: you mean our rural character? Heather Pineault: Yes. a rural character means a lot of the roads aren't safe. and it's a long standing discussion that's been going on as long as I. Been in this community. and I've noticed it too at several places where. like the rail trail crosses or the aqueduct crosses a major road. Is there a better way to have. you know. better lights or something. or. you know. the flashers that go on for crossing? Is that DPW. why don't we work on Mayor Karen. and I will find out more about who we would talk to about that
Maryam Libdi: perfect thank you. Sarah Shtutin: I know some people who have been working on this. and I completely understand the point and agree. but it's just very. very hard. And we've talked to the police. you know. police department to say these. this is unsafe for our kids. and it's just it's very hard. Heather Pineault: It runs. it tends to run against. like Marion said. the semi rural feel. And not everybody is in agreement about wanting sidewalks or how many. Mary Ann Borkowski: but I lived on Draper Hill Road and or Draper road. and it was the kids could not walk down that road. You couldn't do Halloween on that road. You could Heather Pineault: not use that road. It was scared walking to school alone or anything? Yeah. no. Unknown: So I understand there's a long history with this that I have no clue about. but honestly. the bare minimum is signaling. you know. signals with lights. things like that. That may be a middle way between people who want full blown. you know. sidewalks. and people who don't want to change the rule of views.
Heather Pineault: Sarah. do you have more information about who to talk to or who to connect with?
Sarah Shtutin: Not off the top of my head. I just know a friend of mine whose son is hard of hearing. so she. you know. is constantly concerned that there's going to be a car that he's not going to hear. that he's going to be no not quite at the side of the road. And she tried to get sidewalks on her street near the Cochituate. And she. like I said. talk to the police chief. talked to DPW. and it's just she wasn't able to do it. I mean. it also takes property away from all of the neighbors that are on that road. at least on one side or the other. which technically the town can do. because it's eminent domain. but a lot of people would push back. So she was not looking at it from a human rights perspective. She was looking at it more from a safety perspective for her child. And I think if there were more families that rallied together. potentially. this is something that that could be raised. but there's just as many people who rally against their land being encroached upon.
Mary Ann Borkowski: So I would share that article five of well. when you think Tom meeting. forget about the Article Five. but that there's we could write an article. you know. for Tom meeting on this topic. if a group of people got together. and. you know. did some work on that. and. you know. for consideration. So. you know. we really. this. really could be brought. you know. instead of going and saying. I want a sidewalk on mine that. you know. that we could look into the safety issue. I don't know. but you know. we should. Heather Pineault: yeah. let me since. since it's not on the agenda for full discussion. let me talk to Karen and see about putting it on Agenda for a future and continuing the conversation. even if we well. we don't know what we can get without asking. but at a minimum. there's there's disability rights and access in some places. and then there's clearly safety as well. And if they don't want to go as far as taking property. perhaps that the just lights for making Safe. safe places to cross the street. at least. But I will talk about getting on an agenda for the future. Does anybody have anything else that was unanticipated. and for folks who joined us a little bit later. I just want to say we did have great news last night. and I don't know if Sophie is still on. but Sophie Chen is our new student who will be joining Maya. and she was just appointed last night. so she was not able to get sworn in today. but will be joining us in October. So that's exciting news. and thank you. Any other announcements? Uh. do we have a motion to adjourn? Kevin Goodwin: I motion. I motion that we our I make a motion that we adjourn at 755. Heather Pineault: 755. Kevin made a motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Yes. Marianne seconded the emotion. and let's do roll call. SARAH Yes. Asma. yes. Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Mary. Ann. yes. Kevin. yes. yeah. well. and I vote yes as well. Thank you very much. everybody. I appreciate that.
Heather Pineault: Sarah. Sarah Shtutin: Sarah Shtutin present.
Unknown: yes. Mary Ann Borkowski: Mary Ann Borkowski. present. Kevin Goodwin: Kevin Goodwin present.
Heather Pineault: Yauwu. Yauwu Tang: Yauwu Tang Heather Pineault: Heather Pino present. And we also have Robbie here running our equipment and as an observer today. we have Sophie Chen. very exciting news as our new one of our new student members was appointed last night by the Select Board. but needs to still be officially sworn in and talented. so she will be joining us. but thank you for for watching us tonight. Welcome. and I will begin with the statement one may watch this meeting with the link that is found on WayCAM website. Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in person and via remote means. in ordinance with applicable law. this meeting may be recorded which will be made available to the public on WayCAM as soon after the meeting as is practical. when required by law or allowed by the chair. persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so by in person attendance or by accessing the meeting remotely. As noted above. we request public comment be limited to two minutes per person. and I misspoke at the beginning. the meeting link is found online on our agenda on the town of Wayland website. the indigenous land acknowledgement today. as we begin. we would like to acknowledge the following indigenous peoples on whose traditional homelands we live were gathered today. the Massachusett. the Nipmuc. the Wampanoag and the Pacheco. We acknowledge their ancestors. particularly carto of the Massachusett tribe. who was steward of much of the land now encompassing Sudbury and Wayland. When European settlers arrived to colonize this place in 1638. we seek to understand. acknowledge and remember the painful. ongoing history of war. genocide and forced removal of indigenous peoples by European settlers. And we offer a living celebration of the indigenous communities who are not just part of the past. but who can continue to live and make new history here today. may we all commit to deepening our relationships with indigenous communities and to being their allies and working for justice.
We will now see. Is there any public comment? Robbie Bullard: No one online Heather Pineault: No public comment. we're going to begin tonight with our discussion and possible vote to approve the August 19. 2025. meeting minutes. Does anybody have any changes. I have a few. oh. that I've received. but I just want to give everybody a chance first. Anybody else. Asma. I'll just so you don't have to try to get these in real time. I will send you the changes. There's only one that's substantial. Is that? Okay? Perfect. So Karen had a few things she noticed so on the number five conversations for change. This should read the committee discussed co sponsoring because we weren't developing it. So the committee discussed co sponsoring a facilitated community. community conversation series. That's all part of what's written there. Members express strong interest in CO sponsoring the series. with which is being organized by the Wayland library and the Wayland historical and society with professional facilitation. So the point of the change in that is just to clarify and make it clear that we're not actually running it. We're co sponsoring it. Number seven. if you're. Following along. We just are striking the word initial the initial findings. because the report is now complete. so it's not they're no longer initial findings. And on number 10. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't catch this was a typo. publicizing the events. we forgot a T and in the documents. reviewed the community life and executive engagement report the and ended up in the wrong place there. I had a question about number nine. did Karen and yeah. when we left the meeting. was the intent that Karen and yeah. we would draft the report. Yeah. well. were you going to help Karen on the the annual report? I think so. I think that's fine. because that was the plan. and then Karen ended up being able to do it. But as of the meeting time. that's what we've discussed. So the only substantial change was to the community the conversations for change and making it clear that we weren't developing it. we were co sponsoring the program. Does that make sense? Does anybody have any questions?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I think we can vote on it. Heather Pineault: if you are comfortable voting on it as amended. I would love to have a motion. Mary Ann Borkowski: I move that we approve the August 19. 2025. meeting minutes as amended. Heather Pineault: Awesome. Is there a second?
Sarah Shtutin: I'll second. Heather Pineault: Was that you? Sarah. yes. Asma Khan: thank you. Heather Pineault: Any any discussion on the motion? Okay. we'll do a roll call vote. We'll start with you. Mary Ann. please. Mary Ann Borkowski: Mary Ann. yes. Unknown: I don't Oh. you're Oh. yeah. you no. well. Kevin Goodwin: was I here? Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. yeah. I picked you up. Heather Pineault: No. no. Kevin was absent. You're right Mary Ann Borkowski: that's right. yeah. right. Another meeting. Kevin Goodwin: right. So I'm abstaining. Heather Pineault: Okay. Kevin is abstaining. Yauwu. Yauwu Tang: yes Heather Pineault: Yauwu. yes. Sarah
Asma. Asma Khan: yes. Heather Pineault: And Maya. I'm not sure if you were here to catch that or not. It's up to you whether you're comfortable voting on it. Maya Raj: Yeah. I did not hear what you said. I'm sorry. Heather Pineault: Okay. so why don't we leave you and Kevin is abstaining just from the vote because we made some changes to the minutes. but the motion carries with the exception of Kevin and Maya abstaining. And welcome Maya. nice to have you.
Maya Raj: Thank you. Heather Pineault: You're welcome. All right. moving on. Number four item number four review of the annual town report due September 30. with a possible vote to accept in your packet. You found our draft report. and it's the same format that we've used in previous years. Mary Ann went through minutes from throughout the year and put them into sort of the template we have. We do have a word limit. or a character limit. I can't remember which it is that we are. We're at that being said. if there are things that are missing and we need to go back. we can work on it. They are due September 30. So we need to finalize what we're looking for tonight. Does anybody have anything to add or comments on the annual report
that? All right? Yes. we're moving right along. because we have a lot to do tonight. Would anybody like to make a motion to
what would we do. approve the our annual report to submit. to accept Mary Ann Borkowski: accept Sarah Shtutin: Sorry. I just have a I just have a quick question. Yes. of course. Thank you. Since I'm a new member for 2526 My name is not on the report. which I understand. so do I vote? Or
Heather Pineault: Great question. yes. yes. because you're on the committee now. so you're either approving for it to go forward or not. It's not like the minutes. even though it does represent what we did. or if you don't feel comfortable. you are also welcome to abstain. but because you Sarah Shtutin: I don't feel comfortable. just I wasn't there for all of these amazing things that you guys did that. Heather Pineault: oh. that's totally fine. And I think that. like you said. that's reflected in that you weren't a committee member at the time. Yeah. totally up to you and your comfort level of voting. but you're welcome to Would anybody like to make a motion to accept the annual report? Kevin Goodwin: I make a motion that we accept the annual report
Heather Pineault: due to September 30 to Kevin Goodwin: September 30 2025 to accept it. Heather Pineault: Thank you. And do we have a second for that motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: I second it. Heather Pineault: Thank you. So we have a motion by Kevin and a second by Mary Ann to accept the annual report for the hrdic due to the town on September 30. 2025 and this will be the 2025 annual report. All in favor. Let's start on zoom this time. Maya.
Maya Raj: yes. I'm in favor. Heather Pineault: Asma. Asma Khan: yes. Maryam Libdi: Sarah. Sarah Shtutin: yes. Heather Pineault: Yauwu Yauwu Tang: yes. Heather Pineault: Kevin. Kevin Goodwin: yes. Heather Pineault: And Mary Ann Mary Ann Borkowski: Yes. Heather Pineault: and Heather. yes. So we have a unanimous vote to accept the town report with thanks to Karen for all her work in pulling this together. We're on Agenda Item number five. fall statements. update Mary Ann not to put you on the spot. Is there Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. no. unfortunately. I did not get to it. Heather Pineault: Yeah. I My understanding or my memory and correct me if I'm wrong. Was we were also going to talk about like. seeing if anybody would like to help you find representatives who are representatives of the community for whom we are making these statements. Help revise that Karen offered. But if anybody else would like to work with Mary ann. it would be great to not just have Mary Ann have to do this by yourself. It's a lot Mary Ann Borkowski: well. it's well. I mean to all the statements. huh? All the fall statements. Yeah. yeah. Heather Pineault: And we're already up to September. Kevin Goodwin: Do we mean when you say fall statements. do we have statements for winter? Statements for summer? Heather Pineault: Would you like to clarify? Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. it's there on a monthly and actually this the. I think it's Hispanic heritage. and it is actually starts September 15 and and then we have a domestic abuse month and indigenous. indigenous capital day and month. Heather Pineault: So when we say the fall statements. it's only because they they're coming up right now. Kevin Goodwin: okay. all right. Mary Ann Borkowski: and doesn't obligate us to look at all of them at the same time. that's for sure. Heather Pineault: But we did talk last time about wanting to update them a little bit and get some fresh eyes from community members. So Karen is happy to help you. unless somebody else is interested in working on that. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. it might. you know. I think we'll reach out beyond the group to see if we can find some representatives of those identity groups so that we can. you know. feel that we've gotten some perspectives that are are from that community. that the statement is about. So and I'll work on that harder next time. Heather Pineault: And yes. thank you very much. And also. Karen's will help you with that as well. Great. Does anybody have any questions about the so called false statements?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I think maybe you know it might be kind of convenient and think about students too. particularly because. because. you know. there's a whole group of students in the in the high school. and we might be able to involve the high. How hard would it Maya for you to reach out To the students. like for the Hispanic statement. or indigenous statement. Maya Raj: Um. not too hard. but it does. like. depend on what you want to do regarding it. Like. if it's just a simple email. then it's super easy to do. Mary Ann Borkowski: And what did you say? Well. what I wanted to do was like. you know. take. take a look at it and see how they felt about it. Maya Raj: Oh. Okayy Mary Ann Borkowski: chance to rewrite it to see you know how language changes relative to certain issues. social issues in particular. And we want to make sure that our language is sensitive and is is what is the the current thought on these particular issues. so Well. maybe we'll reach out to you after. Maya Raj: okay. Heather Pineault: yeah. if you. if you're willing. we have statements already written. So it's not rewrite. it's not writing a statement from scratch. It's taking a look at what we've had in the past and giving feedback. Mary Ann Borkowski: right so that we need to change it. Heather Pineault: So Mary Ann will reach out to Maya. Thank you. That's great. Okay. moving on to our agenda. Item number six. discussion of the Wayland festival planning updates. including a possible vote to authorize payment to arts Wayland in the amount up to $9.500 for expenses related to the festival. And I won't go into all the details of that quite yet. Why don't we start with any updates about the festival before we get to the vote on the budget. Yauwu Tang: We just had a meeting a moment ago so sorry I was late. It's moving on very well. Performance stuff is online now. the interface we step away the schedule with three months in the final stage. we have 52 tables doing great job. and most is Mary Ann's PR. PR side. Bravo for lot of human cut in. rather everything. Heather Pineault: Oh. wait. say something Mary Ann? So it swings around and it takes a picture. You gotta talk so that I will just say Hi. Tom. hello. owl. Mary Ann Borkowski: owl. owl. well. I'll be talking in a minute because I needed to ask rotate to
Yauwu Tang: not that A frame of the banner.
Heather Pineault: Here we go with our new
it's it found me. Yeah. oh. I did see it. Am I can you guys see this? Oh. there we go. If I Talk so this is the sign. Mary Ann Borkowski: a yard sign. Heather Pineault: and the yard sign. And do you need places to put it? People to volunteer? Are you set? Mary Ann Borkowski: If I did want to ask anybody who's on a major road? Yauwu has one in front of his place. I don't know. Heather. I think we put one last year at the last multicultural festival. So if you want to take one. okay. and Asma Khan: I can take one up on Concord. Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. okay. that'd be great. So what shall where can I leave it? Kevin Goodwin: Does anybody know if the Wayland Post will be covering the Wayland festival? Mary Ann Borkowski: I don't know. I they're supposed to be writing an article for the next edition. But Asma. how can I get to this to you. or I could drop it off. Asma Khan: Yeah. we can coordinate something offline. Mary Ann Borkowski: Okay. what's Heather Pineault: your address? Oh. you don't have to say that online if you don't want okay. yeah. I'll text you. Mary Ann. okay. Mary Ann Borkowski: so what I did want to say. we are also having a table at the festival. So now what I'm planning for the table. not dissimilar to other table. The other table we had. we were going to have a couple of books on with our statements. So they're kind of like this. you know. kind of a listed our statements. It did have some of our events. I think I'm thinking of changing it to the annual the annual reports. We have three annual reports. and I'm not sure who really. you know. I'm not going to tell you. anyone looked through them. but I think. you know. we should. we had. should have something about what we've done. so that if people come by. we're going to have pens. These are the pens from the Wayland Spirit of Community Workshop we had. So we have some left over. So we're going to be giving those out. We're going to have some sort of activity. I got friendship bracelets for to give away. I wanted to have our immigration resources list. List there. And obviously people can go to the Resources page. I'll tell people where they can find it. and we have that community conversation with the Middlesex DA. so either I'm making a flyer or they will make a flyer. Anyhow. we'll have a flyer and we'll have a QR code. QR code has. you know. so that people can just so that's what I'm Oh. but I'm looking also so for tents. checking to see if anybody has a tent. Kevin Goodwin: Sarah has her hand raised. Mary Ann Borkowski: Sarah. you have a tent? Oh. thank you. Would you? Could we borrow it? Sarah Shtutin: Oh. no. I do not. No. no. I do not have a tent. That was before my hand was raised on whether we want to put a sign out in front of Happy Hollow. Mary Ann Borkowski: Um. yes. there we are scheduled to put an a frame in front of Happy Hollow. Okay. so a recreation has them. and I'm hoping they'll I'm going to be showing up and offered my services to bring it over. Okay. because I'd like them out. Because. yeah. we just got them yesterday. so now we're trying to get them around. So an Sarah Shtutin: A frame is like a sandwich board? Heather Pineault: yes. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. and we put it by the driveway. all the schools are putting them by all the schools so. and the banners go up next Monday. and then we get to have two banners. and for two weeks. and the other two areas that we can't have a banner. we'll have a sandwich sign. like What I showed you. what Heather showed you so and now actually. if it. even if you don't have a house that's on a main street. if you have a friend. another friend who's is has a house on a main street. if you want to ask me. or ask them. and then tell me and I can drop one off at their house so that they could Have one. like I'm asking someone from my church. she did it last time. So I'm. you know. she lives on Route 20 So. or business. if you're a frequent business person. like. Stop and Shop is letting us put these yard signs Mels we did last last year. So I'm going to stop by and ask them if we can do it again. and so. but you know. so there. you know. you're here. Fortunately. my hair isn't done here in town. So. but anyhow. so if the So. just reach out to me if. if you have another location that we could put one. Unknown: So are you putting this at. like. major intersections? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I'm the sign boards on the 22nd we need permission. So the 22nd we're going to be putting up for two weeks. We have two of them reserved. and the ones that we can only reserve two at a time. So we are putting a yard sign at the other two that we could not reserve. And so there'll be something there for two two weeks. starting next Monday. Heather Pineault: Great. Thank you so much. And in what do you need from us? What are your hopes from committee members. in terms of support? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that's the other one. Well. we have a table. We're there 10 till six. We need some bodies at the table. I'm going to be at the Freedom Team table right next to you. I hope we're right next to each other anyhow. so I can be there some I can. but I can't be at two tables at once. So we need people who will be able to spend an hour or so during this. unfortunately eight hour period. I'm not sure how. late in the afternoon. Yauwu Tang: six hours from 10 to four. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. 10 to Fay. I agree 10 to Yauwu Tang: five to four. You can enjoy the professional music. right? Mary Ann Borkowski: So. anyhow. so if you can anybody here able to commit right now? Yes. Heather. yes. What time can you be there? I'm open and flexible. Okay. 10 till spot. Yauwu Tang: I can fill gaps Heather Pineault: I can fill gaps. I know Karen. I believe she'll be there. Will anybody else be there who could sit at the table for a little bit. take an hour shift. or anything?
Mary Ann Borkowski: You'll come by. You're going to be at another table. Heather Pineault: Yauwu. will be at another table. Yeah. So please think about that. It's a long day. and the more people. the better. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. right. And we want to be present. just because that's part of our message. Is not just the work we do. but that the fact that we exist at all. Yauwu Tang: Also. we want to recruit members so we can have a sign up seats for people in. Was the Mary Ann Borkowski: we last time we did have. well. I had. I don't know if we have a how to join. but yep. join their HR join. but maybe we could have something they could take. Unknown: Yeah. so Mary Ann Borkowski: it's in here. but we should have it not buried in here. We'll put it something out on the table. maybe something they could take. Heather Pineault: So Sounds good. All right. Thank you. everybody. yes. So I suppose the second part yes is there. are there any more? Just Hang on one sec before we move into the possible vote to approve monies being given to arts Wayland. Does anybody else have any sort of more general questions about the festival or anything.
Mary Ann Borkowski: for those of you who may not know. so HRDEIC created a had two multicultural festivals in the past three years. and this year. we decided to join with two other entities that have big events in town. One is touch a truck that is the Wayland recreation department and ArtsWayland would have an Arts Expo with artists selling their pictures and art and performers. And so we thought that that was something we could all do together and have it kind of like be a bigger day. especially since there's. you know. we're doing performances. Our Expo is doing performances. And so anyhow. that's how we got together and and created this one big event just to see how it works out. So we have our tables. whichever displays. and our activities. and. you know. so some of the you know. our multicultural aspects will be there. and our performances. And so that's and this year there's a parade. because it's a 250th anniversary of our country. And actually. you know. how often do we have a parade? Actually. it's going to go down. I don't know how. You know. we must all shop at the town center. but the town center has the most. most center like street. and we're going to this parade is going to go down the center of the street. So it's going to look like the old fashioned parade that go down Main Street. So anyhow. so I just want yeah and Heather Pineault: so to add on to that. thank you. We will also be revisiting. as you know. said after the festival. to see. does this work for for our committee. doing it as one huge festival. or do we want to go back and do a separate one? So that will be a later conversation after we after it's over. So the second part. as you saw. was a possible vote to authorize payment to arts Wayland. A little bit of history here we have money appropriated to us from the Select Board for $9.500. this committee made a presentation. Select Board approved that amount based on preliminary budget numbers. and it is now our job to approve that amount to go to ArtsWayland. One of the benefits of working with ArtsWayland is that the performers and well everybody. will be able to be paid more quickly. because they don't have to go through the same process with multiple votes by us and then by the Select Board for payments directly from the town. I received information from Kelsi. the assistant town manager with this language. So this language has already been approved. and she had some examples of the expenses from Chris Reynolds. who is also working on on the festival. and they account for well over 9.500 for the whole festival. And specifically some of the items. when one in the motion. it says with sound stage 10 festival performance. publicity. food. all of that's well over 9.500 if we want to think more specifically. he broke out $2.000 for sound equipment. sound engineer. sound technician. $3.500 for portable stage. These are estimates. and 4.000 for tents. He also sent me some backup invoice. not invoices. because they haven't paid yet. Estimates if we need more data. But that's sort of that is where the support for our moving $9.500 comes from.
Kevin Goodwin: I move approval that we approve. I move approval that we give 9.000 Heather Pineault: what was it? 9.000 we authorized $9.500 Kevin Goodwin: to ArtsWayland for their work on the wellness festival. Heather Pineault: And I'll just. can I add a little more of the technical language that Kelsi absolutely up to the amount of 9.500 for expenses related to the 2025. Wayland festival. including. but not limited to cost associated with sound. stage. tent. which I just enumerated. festival performances. publicity. food. beverage and other related expenses. So that's the exact language note takers. It's it's what we have written in the agenda. Hang on one sec. Is there a second to the motion? Kevin Goodwin: Second. Heather Pineault: Well. you made the motion to you. You own the motion. It's yours. Okay. Way to go. Um. do we have a second? You try? Good. Try. We'll. we'll discuss it. Hang on one sec. please. Do we have a second for the motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. I'll second it so we can get on to our discussion. Heather Pineault: Okay. second by Mary Ann. Now. are there. is there any discussion on the motion? It's Yauwu Sarah Shtutin: well. yeah. I. I just discussed the budget with Chris as waiting. Actually. this the first time I have the chance to discuss the budget. So at this time. we don't have other community who is going to control or approve any cost. So I. I feel it's premature at this time to have this work. especially mostly bill or discussion is done between Janot and Chris. so she's not here. and I don't feel comfortable to vote this time. so I propose this Tom. and there's no urgent money to be paid this time. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I would just ask. is there. you know. are there some deposits that have to be made for sound and stage? I mean. those were things that were in the budget that we had given to the Select Board. the Select board so that we. and they're very specific. and they're large. and we could allocate. Sarah Shtutin: you know specific items we need to do it. We can approve the line items but us first for the to give Asma proof
Asma Khan: note taker. Maryam joined at 638 she signed on with a link from me. So it's coming up as Asma Khan. but it's Maryam Heather Pineault: just Oh. Thank you. Thank you for letting us know. Maryam joined us at 638 I was wondering. I was wondering how there was another Asma. Thank you. Thanks for letting us know. Welcome. So I'm hearing ya woo has concerns about giving a check without having specific invoices that we're paying tied to it. Mary Ann made the point that there are. are deposits that need to be made. This is coming up soon. and this was all part of the budget that we presented and discussed with the Select Board when they approve the 9.500 Are there any other comments or questions?
Mary Ann Borkowski: It can be amended? Can Can we? Does it make it makes? Is it okay to say. you know that we're willing to. you know. pay half the sound. half the stage at this point to so that we give them some operating money. and we're not going to have another meeting until after this event. Heather Pineault: That's my concern. Is timing wise. we don't meet until October 21 which is right. yes. after the event. which is on the fourth. And people like to be paid. and if they. you know. part of the purpose of doing this was because ArtsWayland. then could pay people more timely. But we won't meet until October 21 after we meet. whatever we approve. has to go to the Select Board for approval and then. So it takes a it won't happen immediately. It will take couple. I think they said usually two to three more weeks. Yauwu Tang: But at this time. we don't even know we're doing. Is already always decided. please. So at this time. we're giving that to another organizations. and we just don't have any control. or we spend our money. I just don't feel that's responsible thing for us to do. Mary Ann Borkowski: us to do. But by not doing that. we are we're relying on these other organizations to handle whatever those budget issues are. And. for example. we're supposed to make some sort of payment to the performers. if you know and the performers are going to want someone's going to be paying them right away. So if ArtsWayland has money. and they're using money. and they're I just don't know how that will happen.
Yauwu Tang: How much we just do Mary Ann Borkowski: it. yes. but there these other bills are going to be due at the same time. or the sound and the stage. We're on the hook for some of this. Heather Pineault: We. I think I hear and understand your concern. and in the past. so everybody knows we usually would get a specific item. it would say we were approving a $500 payment to for the services. very specific. Mary Ann Borkowski: and it took 30 days. and that was took a while to actually get that check cut. Heather Pineault: to go through that whole process. takes a few weeks. and but that's when Yauwu was saying we had very specific we knew exactly what we Were paying to whom and for what. That is true when we had total state control. for lack of a better word. we ran the festival. we were responsible for it all. and so I totally respect and understand what you're saying. and I think we already spoke to the Select Board about this money being used together with other town monies. Park and Rec is is supporting the touch of truck. and then arts Wayland is involved. I My understanding is they knew. and they saw a budget that the whole budget for the whole festival. even our festival. was a lot more than this last year. So we know the expenses are there. and they have. We've already said we would. we've already committed to the $9.500 and so my concern is that this will hold up people getting paid. which was part of why we thought this was a good way to go. Yauwu Tang: but without any last convention. or for us to control. to decide all the money spent you. just for me. if you give up. you just ask willing to decide what's going to how it's going to spend. Just what we want to do. I agree with certain things. Collaborate together. We need to have meditation. which is still to be seen. because so far. every communication between Chris and me. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. so you wouldn't feel comfortable. It's and I don't even know if it might make sense. so you wouldn't feel comfortable. Feel comfortable knowing that the sound stage has to be done. The sound Yauwu Tang: I'm comfortable to do things that we know that were part of the agreement and were approved. Heather Pineault: I can. I can give you some examples Yauwu Tang: For example of dispatches. Budget. I still see the people here. but I haven't seen the budget. I even didn't receive a new budget. We so I took a camera and put this kind of environment. yeah. I totally received Heather Pineault: and that I can't speak to that I know there was a budget at the beginning of the whole process. and I think you you started it right on a spreadsheet. and that's how we got approved. So we know those monies are going to be expended. real expenses. Okay. so we have seen a budget. and we and. and I think it was your spreadsheet that you shared with the budget. and so we know. and we have committed that we would pay the 9500 that the Select Board gave to us. I guess I understand you're wanting to have more information. but I'm trying to understand your concern. Are you worried that people aren't going to be paid. We're only two. three weeks out from the festival now and and so I'm assuming that that this has been figured out a little bit. and I'm sorry you it sounds like you're not getting the information from the festival committee. Um. That you would like. and I understand that. and that sounds extremely frustrating. because you've been such a key Yauwu Tang: we have no input on how to manage spend. Yeah. okay. hold on. The channel was much cheaper devices. so there's no discussion. Okay. okay. I cannot do it . I just cannot come back next month. Come back this folder. Okay. we are not seeing convenient. but we need to do that Mary Ann Borkowski: so you can't see any partial payment. Yauwu Tang: A partial payment? Are you voting? It's
Mary Ann Borkowski: no. your answer is no. Yauwu Tang: I will do it. I will say. but I don't see say. Okay.
Well. $1.000 I think Heather Pineault: I understand. I think what I'm struggling a bit with is when we decided to do this with other organizations. part of that meant that we were giving up some control. because it's not ours. right? It's not just us. so we don't have complete control of this. and part of that was then when we presented the budget to the Select Board and they approved the 9500 was for me anyway. is knowing and trusting that it's part of this group effort. and now that the payments we know are going through arts Wayland. and we also know that the payments total more than the 9500 that we're contributing. because they are also contributing. And so I feel a sense of responsibility to to move the money to them so that we can't so that they can make the payments in a timely fashion. realistically. if we have to wait till our next meeting on October 21 and then it's a few more weeks after that before we get approval from the Select Board to and the checks are cut. or the check is cut. it's just then going to be a good month after the festival before people will be able to be paid. Yauwu Tang: I agree that we have to give up something. we have to discuss things. but I do not agree that we give up 100% and that if you get a budget even rather not being informed. I think that is very. very unusual collaboration. Yes. if you want me to say yes. I really couldn't. I'm sorry. Heather Pineault: No. I understand. And I guess what I'm struggling now with is. do we take a vote on the total amount and understanding that you can't support it. or do you want to make a motion to amend? And we can do it as a two step process and see if people want to do an amended mount. or if people want to do a full amount. Yauwu Tang: okay. I will go.
Heather Pineault: So are you making a are you making an amendment to the motion? Yauwu Tang: Yeah. 4500
Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. Why'd you make it specific to. I mean. I actually. actually the money is the best. Okay. so just half Heather Pineault: and. okay. so there's an amendment on the floor to Yahoo's motion. to Kevin's motion for 9500 that Yahoo is making. that we distribute. How much $4.500 is there any discussion about the amendment to the motion? Does anybody want to give feedback? Folks on Zoom. I'm sorry I feel like we haven't engaged you. or I haven't done a good job engaging you in this conversation. Does anybody have any thoughts. because our first vote will be on whether we approve the motion. the amendment to the motion for $4.500 if that passes. we would just be giving arts Wayland $4.500 if it fails. we would then vote on the motion for $9.000
Kevin Goodwin: or 95 Heather Pineault: sorry. 9500 Thank you. I was just seeing if you were paying attention. Good job. For. That's what I tell my kids at school. Sarah Shtutin: So sorry. Maybe I'm just confused. Is the issue that we don't have specific invoices and we're just writing them like a blank check. and yeah. we don't want to do that for the full amount. even though we promised it to them. Heather Pineault: That is that that's my understanding of Yauwu's concern. And it's. it's not like totally a blank check. but it does. you know. we list. we enumerate on on number six on the agenda. the types of expenses up to $9.500 Sarah Shtutin: but they can't provide us with the invoices from the people that we're paying from the staging and the artists like. that's not possible. Heather Pineault: They don't have all the invoices yet. because they are still negotiating. is my understanding from an email today. I have some examples. and a lot of the folks didn't invoice us like last year. We would get them. we knew what we owed them at the festival. and we'd get that at the festival. as opposed to in advance. So for example. I have one invoice or one quote here for $4.348 for temps. I have another quote for the stage alone. for 3600 and then another quote for the stage and lighting cables and some other things that I don't understand. And that's 5700 so those invoice. those quotes that are coming in are of the magnitude of $9.500 if we just wanted to pick a few big items. and I think that was the intent. was to say HRD. I see here are a few big items that add up to around $9.500 plus we know they're all the performers to be paid and all the other expenses as well. So that's. does that does that help? Sarah Shtutin: Sarah. in the end. yes. but in the end will be get receipts for where the money went. Will there be documentation? Heather Pineault: in the end. for ArtsWayland. they Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. they have to document. They have to document it. There are 501 c3 they're not a Tom and 5013 state. Thank you. Heather Pineault: So so they have to document and they will get invoices that they're paying.
Sarah Shtutin: So we will have in the end. proof of kind of where our funds went. Heather Pineault: We could certainly request that. And as you've seen. we have folks on the committee. And unfortunately. Janot is not able to be here tonight because she may have more information. But yes. we certainly can request that. Mary Ann Borkowski: And we know some of the. I mean. we know we're going to spend all of it and the so to to be our fiduciaries. But we. but if we know. we could give. you know. 1500 for the stage and to that. or at 1000 for the sound. and 2500 for the stage. And do you know. whatever adds up to what our amount is. and then it could go to that. because we know you're going to buy a stage. Kevin Goodwin: yeah. and the test. I have a question that. Yauwu. I mean. I mean. I know you were saying we we had removed the motion for 9500 which was It was no motion. But my question becomes. if we give 40. if we pay 4500 ourselves. what happens to the other 40 50. 5.000 we who? Who does that go to? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that we just have to vote it at a different time? Heather Pineault: Well. I think the question is someone might. either someone's not going to get paid while they're waiting to get it. or I don't. I don't know what ArtsWayland budget is. I'm not sure they have 5000 extra dollars they could front to float while they're waiting. So most likely. it means somebody will wait to get paid until Mary Ann Borkowski: and or we have an emergency meeting with a quorum to try to pass some of these. Heather Pineault: Yep. we could. That's what we could do. is try to get an emergency meeting. We'd need to have at least five voting members at it. So are there any other questions on the motion to amend which. yeah. yeah. Well. made.
Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess I would. I would say. you know. I mean. we have a relationship here. I mean. how does that hurt? Will that hurt our relationship? Kevin Goodwin: I mean. would you say. Say. leave it at 9500 or pay 4500 and somebody. Or. would you say. just. would you say. leave it at for 9500 for us. because we were. we were the ones that were given the 9500 or cut it to 4500 and then somebody ends up in. yeah.
Mary Ann Borkowski: well. I don't you know how. um. how? You know. a lot of things get invoiced to a town that they have to wait. That's not really that unusual. And so that's why I focus on the things that we know. Well. actually focusing on things that we the only things we have listed are the things that that I suspect they could actually wait. you know. it's the payment to the performers and some other expenses that is kind of more immediate. but that it also. you know. we don't have a logical over we don't have a lot of oversight over that. And we could. if Heather Pineault: they don't have the money. we don't have control over who they choose to pay first. right? Mary Ann Borkowski: But. well. I mean. you could give them money that has to go to the stage. I mean. you could say Heather Pineault: that like we could limit it. Well. I the language we have here is a language the assistant town manager requested that we use. Kevin Goodwin: Okay. let me ask you. okay. I'm going to throw in another question. What don't we in this 9500 or 4500 or whatever we choose to pay. Let's say it's 9500 either that night. 9500 for everything. What don't we have control over? Here's my question.
I'm not I'm not worried about the money. I'm asking the question. what in everything that has to be paid for? What don't we have control over? What? What parts of the festival Do we not have control over payment? Heather Pineault: The touch of truck part is my understanding. the park. and rest is doing touch a truck. So the payments associated with that part of the day or touch a truck. I don't know if the Wayland 250 committee has a part. but all of the other things listed. Kevin Goodwin: So touch a truck is not us. Is not us. Okay? So then how? Okay. let me how much is the touchy truck? Heather Pineault: I don't know. because it's not us. okay? It's totally it's part. On the other hand. Mary Ann Borkowski: they did make they paid for these. Oh. that was nice. Okay. this is their budget. which would have gone for touch a truck. Yauwu Tang: They didn't give budget for us. We did not get the budget of ArtsWayland. too many Heather Pineault: Okay. so folks. we have a lot still on our agenda tonight. so I'm going to ask. I neglected. I think I made a mistake procedurally. We had a motion to amend. Was there a second to the motion to amend. We actually need a second to the motion to amend as well.
Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess we can't vote and we have to. oh. I suppose we wouldn't have to vote if we never got Heather Pineault: correct. If we don't have a second to the motion to amend. then we don't have a motion to amend. Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. I'm just not clear about. you know whether. Kevin Goodwin: if. if. okay. let me ask you this. if we don't have a motion to amend. does it go back to the main vote? Which I think it does. Yes. Heather Pineault: Yes. correct. So is. Would anybody like to second the motion to amend?
Mary Ann Borkowski: I will second the motion to amend so we can vote on it and even further discuss it. Kevin Goodwin: It's for $4.500
Mary Ann Borkowski: so. you know. we never said. We never said. what. how this was going to happen. So we. we didn't really know when. you know when this would happen. right? Other than Kelsi gave you this language which kind of covers everything. Heather Pineault: Well. there's two things. The other thing that I know. if we're concerned about it covering us. a. yes. A. we got the language specifically from Kelsi. but B. the Select Board still needs to vote. So if the Select Board is not happy with the language. the Select Board also could say. Nope. we're sending it back because we want X. Y or Z. and we want more. So it could there. There are two there are two options that there are two possibilities. Is there any more discussion on the motion to amend? Does anyone have any new thoughts that. We have not discussed thus far.
Sarah Shtutin: I will. I'm sorry if I missed this. but if we don't give them the full money is back. enough potentially affect the quality of the you know. if they can't pay people. are they going to show up?
Heather Pineault: I don't have that answer usually. Well. I know from when we ran it the past couple years. we the payments were after the performance. They didn't get paid to perform in advance. At least the people that we were hiring. Mary Ann Borkowski: I know. but that. but some of them did get paid for 30 days. But then some of them didn't Heather Pineault: get paid for quite a while Yauwu Tang: it would pass. probably nobody will.
Heather Pineault: We already have performers lined up. and we have an agreement with arts Wayland. about covering all these costs so youth. So I now. I'm I'm concerned. It sounds like your concern is that if we release this money. that we won't have any of our performers. Yauwu Tang: We can go the time itself is going to support probably close to myself. Heather Pineault: the 10th the estimate for the tent on that was. what did I say. folks. I just said that a minute ago. I have the tent estimate. And I think maybe it was when you stepped out. The tent estimate is $4.000
Yauwu Tang: the stages. Heather Pineault: and the stage is 5000 right? And then that's just a portion art Wayland already committed at the Select Board meeting when. when we talked about about doing this together. our Wayland committed to pay money too. Yauwu Tang: So. but can they use the money?
Heather Pineault: They could use the money to pay these things. but then they don't have the money to pay for the performers. Sarah Shtutin: So
Heather Pineault: that's so that's why I feel like we need to release the money to them so that they can pay everybody. They can pay the performers. and they can pay they can pay all their all the fees associated with the Yauwu Tang: festival. you would have a conversation. yes. but I don't have Any conversation about right? I just got this.
Heather Pineault: I'm sorry. Can I? Can I show you these? I literally just got them this Yauwu Tang: afternoon.
Heather Pineault: because I just got them. and I think. oh. yeah. yes. I don't know. and I'm sorry. that's why Yauwu Tang: I have concerns. not because I want to credit this. I feel I'm not responsible for the HR. Okay. go ahead. Unknown: Yeah. no. I understand them. Hi. This is Mariam. I can understand you. I was concerned. especially that I wasn't around when this agreement was made. Is there a way to if we decide to vote on release of the full amount? Is there a way to release with a guarantee of receiving invoices. I think. as an initial step that may ease concerns and help us preserve that relation by releasing the full amount. Now maybe. yes. that's what I think that was. well. we. Heather Pineault: yeah. that was Sarah's question. It's not. I mean. I. I'm wondering if. rather than doing the amendment to 4500 What if we added language with the understanding or with the agreement that we will receive invoices. or the agreement that performers will be paid with the agreement that we'll receive invoices Unknown: and then set that standard for future partnerships. Kevin Goodwin: Yeah. okay. my question is this. well. here. you know you were saying. Now I completely forgot what I was going to say. I was going back to Miriam. Miriam. what was your question. if we released the complete 9500 what? What. where? What issue were you having Unknown: so we are now. At a moment when this agreement has been made. and preserving the partnership with this other organization is a priority in such a small town. I was suggesting. if we decide to release the full amount. but then have some language that would guarantee that we will know what that money was used for. and then in the future. that will Kevin Goodwin: be. I know. I know what my issue was. You know what? Let me ask you this on the invoices wouldn't. wouldn't the book. wouldn't the Selectmen office have copies of or. the Select Board Office. would they have copies of the invoices? Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. that's why we're giving it to arts. Wayland is so well that it doesn't Kevin Goodwin: have. well. let me put it to you this way. either way. somebody's going to have any invoices. right. whether it be the Select Board Office. or that's Wayland. yeah. either one of the I mean. yeah. oh. I know you were concerned about the invoice. And then I think you were. either way. somebody's going to have the invoices regardless. Heather Pineault: So what if we add to the motion after the motion? Kevin Goodwin: My point is. why don't we issue them? Why don't we just. why don't we? Why don't we? I mean. we've already approved the 9500 let's leave it at that.
Heather Pineault: Well. I'm wondering. we haven't actually voted yet. We. we. we got approval from the Select Board that we have that that money we haven't voted to. we haven't
voted to authorize the payment to arts Wayland. But I'm wondering if we added on after the language that's in the agenda. with the understanding that arts Wayland will provide receipts totaling set amount. Unknown: would that
Yauwu Tang: still cost? Heather Pineault: Yes. and I feel like that's part of the deal we entered into when we did this. That part of the agreement was we would. we put the budget together that we thought for the whole event and how much we requested for our portion from the Select Board. with the agreement that we would then give it to arts Wayland to make. to make payments. So I was trying to Tom's point. add in a little bit of language that would say. with the understanding that our Wayland would give us a receipt. Kevin Goodwin: So let me ask you this at the Select Board Office. I mean. at the selectman beam. they asked or. or. I would assume EHR DIC asked or a set amount which they gave to us? No. was ours? Well. in there at the time.
Mary Ann Borkowski: um. this was part of that discussion. Heather Pineault: I Okay. I wasn't at that meeting. but. but it was our Mary Ann Borkowski: budget. but it was. but we were asking Kevin Goodwin: for it. But. but who do we got the money? We got it or. I mean. let me ask you this. Then does the then did the gorgeous elect man turn around and say. you have the authority to give so much to arc Wayland. they didn't give the authority to do that. and we're on the hook for that. We're on the hook for the 9500 which is. which is what we were given.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Well. but Kelsi. I mean. that everybody knew what the intention was. and that's why Kelsi gave us this language. so that Heather Pineault: and the Select Board will have to vote one more time. once they once we authorize it. I have to tell Kelsi that we voted. and then that has to go before the Select board so that the town has permission to cut a check. is my understanding. Kevin Goodwin: Um. which I see no problem with. But okay. apparently. Heather Pineault: yeah. I hear. I totally I hear the concerns all around and I understand the discomfort with how we're doing it and how it's different than we've done it before. and this does require a level of trust with a town organization that we've been working with.
Yauwu Tang: yes or. Challenges do you have Heather Pineault: to I do not have the wording from the Select Board. I'm going by Kelsi. who is the Assistant town manager's wording based on what we were allowed to do with the with the Mary Ann Borkowski: fund. the language
Heather Pineault: that's in our on our agenda here. this is exactly what Kelsi said we were authorized to do and what we needed to ask for. So that comes from the town manager's office or the assistant Tom manager's office. So I'm trusting I didn't go back and try. I didn't watch the Select Board meeting. So I'm trusting that this is what the Select Board needs in order to make the payment to arts Wayland.
yes. well. I can't. I don't know that for sure. but that's my understanding. given the language that we Were asked to approve by the town. So at this point. does anybody have something noi that day. Kevin Goodwin: So in other words. the language you're holding in your hand. we have. we're authorized to approve Heather Pineault: that from Kelsi. the assistant Tom manager gave me this language for us to vote on. So I think Kevin Goodwin: we. I think it would be a wise and prudent idea just to be on the safe side to approve that language. Heather Pineault: Okay. so we have an emotion to amend on the floor. So we have two votes to do. I just want to be clear. our first vote is going to be on the motion to amend the amount that we authorize payment to our Wayland to $4.500 instead of the original amount. which was 9000 to be clear on the procedure. we vote on the motion to amend. If that passes. then the amount is $4.500 instead of $9.000 Kevin Goodwin: or the motion 9500 Heather Pineault: My apologies. if the motion fails to amend the amount. then we vote on the motion for $9.000 unless we want to amend it again. unless we want to amend it again. then I'll be just Like Tom meeting. We can do Kevin Goodwin: that road. Heather Pineault: So we have a motion to amend the amount from 9000 to 4500 and I'd like to take a vote on that so that we can move along. I think we've all shared our opinions on this. Does anybody have anything new that they would like to add to the conversation?
Kevin Goodwin: Okay. Heather Pineault: let's start on online. Please. Asma. your vote on the motion to amend. Instead of 9000 down to $4.500
Asma Khan: yes. Heather Pineault: you agree with the motion to amend? Did I hear that? Right? Sorry. I'm having trouble hearing you.
Asma Khan: Yeah. sorry. going down from 95 to four to 4500 got it? Unknown: I'm going to go with no. Sarah. no.
Mariam. can I abstain? Heather Pineault: Abstain? Maya. Asma Khan: I'm going to abstain. Heather Pineault: Marianne. we're gonna go now. staying and staying. Marianne. no. Kevin. no. ya Woo. yes. and Heather is a no. Sarah Shtutin: You brush your teeth. You went to the bathroom. Okay? It's lane. Okay. okay. so sorry. My kids are going to bed. Heather Pineault: No worries. The motion to amend does not pass with 1234. I'm sorry. 12345. votes for No. two abstentions and the I will one vote yes. so the motion to amend is not carry. which takes us back to the original motion for that Kevin made for $9.500 as is written in the agenda. yes.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. subject to.
Heather Pineault: To agreement of expenses by arts. Wayland and HDR hrdic. Does any is there a second on that motion? Unknown: Can select board? Can the Select Board vote on that.
Heather Pineault: It doesn't matter. it's our Mary Ann Borkowski: motion. I know. but they have to approve something like this. Heather Pineault: They have to prove the expenditure. I That's a great question. I'm not sure we can put a well. is there a second to this motion? Mary Ann Borkowski: I mean. what we're doing. we need it Heather Pineault: really hard. Yeah. this is really hard. and I don't know. but do we have a second to the motion to make the the payments agreement subject to agreements of arts. Wayland. HR. DIC. together. Yauwu Tang: yes. is this motion required? Required by the by the circle one. Kevin Goodwin: we don't the 9500 Heather Pineault: of this motion? Which motion the Yauwu Tang: one to give money to us? Heather Pineault: Directions we have the wording is from Kelsi. who's in the assistant who's the Assistant town manager. We have to take this vote in order to have the money be given to our Wayland. Yauwu Tang: but I understand people want to get money. We. okay. we I think Heather Pineault: we're that's our discussion right now. I think we have to. because we agreed to and I so I want to get back to your motion to amend. Is there a second to this motion to amend? Because if. if there is a second. we need to discuss it and then vote again. and if there's not a second. then we don't have the motion.
Okay. hearing no second. we are going to go back and vote on the motion that Kevin made. I will read it in its entirety so that we're clear. Kevin moved to authorize payment to arts Wayland up to the amount of $9.500 for expenses related to the 2025 Wayland festival. including. but not limited to cost associated with the sound stage 10 festival performances. publicity. food and beverage and other related expenses we will do. I'm sorry. Sarah Shtutin: I'm sorry. Yes. I know. I know this has been a long process. but I do think there's been several people who've asked if we can amend the language to then have them provide us with documentation or invoices or some kind of accounting of how the money was spent. Okay. does that need a separate motion? Heather Pineault: It needs a motion to amend. Are you would you like to make a motion? Kevin Goodwin: Heather. I think we already discussed this. Heather Pineault: So Sarah. what would you be your what's your amendment? Then to our motion. Sarah Shtutin: my amendment is to have the exact language as Kevin wrote it and you just read it. but to have a line in there that after the festival. we would like an accounting with documentation of how the $9.500 was spent.
Kevin Goodwin: Okay. that I don't have a problem. okay. Heather Pineault: all right. Like documentation. is there a second for the amendment? The motion to amend.
Maryam Libdi: And yeah. we'll second. I second that. Oh. Heather Pineault: yeah. One Miriam. yeah. we'll got in there. Okay. after the festival. we would like documentation as to how the funds were expended. Is. did I get that correctly? Okay? Is there any discussion on the motion to amend?
Yauwu Tang: We still need to aware that we have. we have no control in mind. Heather Pineault: And I think that will be a great discussion point for what we do moving forward afterwards. okay. and whether we're going to do I think we need to bring this to the table as part of the conversation about how this had worked in this joint venture. whether we want to continue doing this. Do we need. More guidelines going forward next time I am not in any way trying to lessen your concerns. just wondering about the timing. I feel like the train already left. and we have a responsibility. We can add this amendment in which will then get us some documentation. which I think is very important. and I'm hearing several people talk about and we will put this on the agenda to discuss at the October meeting about going forward what we want to do. Does that make sense? Unknown: Okay? October. Okay. Heather Pineault: Is there any more conversation on the motion to amend. So once again. we have to do two votes. The first. the first is to amend the original motion by adding. after the festival. we would like documentation as how to the funds were expended. So I will start with a vote here. Ya Woo. Ya Woo. Yes. yes on the amendment. yeah. Kevin.
Kevin Goodwin: I'd say no. okay. Marianne. yes. Maryam Libdi: Sarah. yes. Heather Pineault: Asma. yes. Unknown: Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Heather Pineault: And Heather. I vote yes. Um. that brings us now to the whole motion. um. as is stated in the agenda item number six. plus the amendment. including that after the festival. we would like documentation as to how the funds were expended. So let's do a vote on the total motion as amended. So for the notes it we were voting on the motion as amended. and I'll go back online. Maya. yes. Maryam. yes. Asma. yes. Sarah. yes. ya wo Yes. Mary Ann. yes. Kevin. yes. and Heather. yes. All right. Thank you very much. everybody. I know that was a challenging conversation. and I think it's also really important that we talked about all of that and we were able to figure out something and got a unanimous vote. So thank you everybody for listening to each other together. Unknown: Can we please add to a future agenda to discuss. you know. having policies so we don't want into this again? Heather Pineault: Yep. I put it on the on in my notes for the October meeting as part of the follow up about the festival. Like. Are there guidelines? You know. they're going to be a lot of things we're discussing. Like. do we want to continue to do something jointly as a big town celebration? Do we want to return to our having total control and running a separate festival if we do it jointly? What policies would we want in place? What did we learn from this experience? So absolutely?
Yeah. thank you. Okay. Wow. Say So folks. I need to make some decisions. because I want to respect our time and and I want to respect the importance Agenda Item number seven. I would like to suggest that we come back to that in October. because I don't feel like we can really do it justice and get through the other kind of business items that we have to do. There was a this was presented to the Select Board. I'm talking about the discussion of the Wayland community life and engagement executive report we were going to review theme one. strength and foundations of action. belonging and shared values. But I would like us to be able to spend more than about 10 minutes on it. And I feel like at this point. it's it we. we won't be able to do it justice. Along with that. I would one once. if you have the time before October to check out the September 2 Select Board meeting. Dr even a Hayes and Karen were at that meeting when the committee talked about this entire report. and it was on their agenda for 10 minutes. So it's it would be valuable. in my opinion. if you're able to go on WayCAM and watch that. it might give us. it's giving me thoughts about what recommendations we could make. And I would just suggest. if you're able to watch that. it's about. Want to say two and a half hours into the meeting. approximately. okay. so we are going to put that on hold. I would like to do number eight. Kevin Goodwin: Oh. sorry. I would. I would. I know you should put it on hold. I put it table. It Tova. thank Heather Pineault: you. Yes. Thank you much. Better choice of words. Thanks. Kevin table. Mary Ann Borkowski: with this. is there any value in having someone like lead that discussion. one of us Unknown: lead which discussion? Seven Mary Ann Borkowski: that that each of these as we move our way through doing that so that it will not just like Heather Pineault: you mean the other than the chair. you mean someone in the group would take it on? Yeah. Oh. well. speaking for myself as vice chair. and on behalf of Karen. I'm sure if somebody would like to. we were going to break it up into each of the sections to discuss. If somebody is interested in leading the discussion on any part. please reach out to me or Karen. or to Karen. But that would be. that's a great idea. Asma. Are you able to do the discussion and possible vote on the Know Your Rights? Flyer? Yes. something we would Asma Khan: love to have. Do you want to share the flyer on my end? Heather Pineault: Can Asma share her screen? Can you share your screen? Do you see the green button? Share Screen? Unknown: Yeah. I can. Awesome. This is Heather Pineault: an updated version of what was in your packet. Oh. it's updated from well. updated only in that the QR code. so you wouldn't really see a difference. okay. but. okay. Unknown: do you guys see that? Sarah Shtutin: No. no.
Heather Pineault: no. are you sharing your screen? Yeah.
Kevin Goodwin: we're not seeing anything. I can hold Heather Pineault: up. I can hold up a picture of what. Here we go. Mary Ann Borkowski: There we go. you know. Asma Khan: Yeah. great. Thank you. Okay. all right. perfect. So from Karen's suggestion of getting at least something out there for Know Your Rights. because we weren't able to do an event. we decided to make a very generic flyer of inclusivity. So the idea is we have this flyer that we're able to put up in restaurants storefronts around town. and have this QR code that links over to our website that include different Know Your Rights for groups. And so there's immigration. LGBTQ. domestic violence. and so that's all listed on our our web page. Let me see if I have it up here. Yeah. this one right here. So that QR code links to all of these different links. and so it kind of leaves it open to the reader of how they want to take that message. But I think it's powerful to be able to have up in different storefronts around town just to have that support.
Heather Pineault: So what a we would need to approve that we would like to do this. Thank you very much. I think. personally. I think this is a great idea and something actionable that we can do. Does anybody have any questions about the flyer itself. or what Asma shared with us? Mary Ann Borkowski: So my experience. at least in the town center was and when I look at it. there aren't any flyers on anybody's windows. And I don't know if there's a requirement. but. you know. it makes me think of the you know. things that you know. like domestic violence being in bathrooms and our card. I don't know I we could run but. you know. it's maybe I shouldn't. I shouldn't presume that someone wouldn't. I have no idea. Well. it used to be people used to put up flyers all the time in years past. but. you know. I don't see them doing that now. and I didn't get a good response. Heather Pineault: So and bathrooms may still also work. I've seen these in some similar bathrooms. I do. Did you have any thoughts. or more information about distribution Asma? Asma Khan: I think the idea is to have a few of us go around to different restaurants and stores and see if they would be willing to have it in their like front window display.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Oh. and if we get. as we get feedback. we can adjust. Yeah. I would also say that. you know. there is a Wayland West End or west. And Wayland Rotary. it might be worth it to plan a presentation with them. Val Abbasi from the Village Bank. He belongs there. He could invite us to make a presentation about this and have it available that people might take it. So thank you. Heather Pineault: Does anybody have any folks on on Zoom when we're in share mode like this. I can't see you individually. so feel free to just jump in. because I'm sharing. Sorry. No. no. no. it's great to share. No. no. no. no problem at all. I just can't I just want to make sure people jumped in. Does anybody? Would anybody like to make a motion that we vote on sharing. just trying to distribute. on sharing this flyer. or distributing this flyer around town? Kevin Goodwin: I make a motion that we share or distribute the Wayland with flyer. the Wayland flyer Heather Pineault: the Wayland Know Your Rights. Flyer. Kevin Goodwin: yes. around town. Sarah Shtutin: Okay. second
Maya Raj: I. second that Kevin Goodwin: I. oh. I Heather Pineault: Yeah. Kevin made the motion. I heard Mary Ann second it I think. um. yes. Is there any. okay. is there any uh. discussion on the motion? No.
Maryam Libdi: I'm sorry. I think this is an urgent matter we can there's so many ways we can change this up or discuss further. but I feel like this issue is urgent and needs to be put out in any shape or form. Heather Pineault: Yes. I agree. Maya Raj: I have a question. Yeah. Who seconded? Because I'm taking notes. I'm not sure if it was Maryam or if it was Maryam. Heather Pineault: Okay. so can we take a vote. please? Marianne. yes. Kevin. yes. yeah. Woo. Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Asma. yes. Sarah. yes. Great. Asma. thank you so much. And Heather. you didn't vote Heather. I voted yes. Thank you. Thanks for the reminder. Mary Ann Borkowski: I'm going to add it to our table. Heather Pineault: Yes. that's what I was thinking when you said that at the table. Yeah. no. you're right. So we can have this certainly at the festival and Asma. Do you want to let us know. or send us all a final copy? Or what are you thinking in terms of printing so we get them in color? Or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Asma Khan: I mean. I think right now we're probably. I was thinking to just print out 20 at home and then see where it goes from there. if we need more or less. Mary Ann Borkowski: But if you send me. if you send Mary Ann. the your PDF. I would go and get. you know. 50 for my table. Okay. hoping that maybe some people would take them. Maybe some business people would take them. Maya Raj: I feel like Mary Ann. if you're having it at the table. people being able to scan that QR code should be enough. I think having a fire posted. We're hoping that businesses. people who are. oh. I see okay. have a business that they would take this flyer to. just perfect. right? And. you know. I just go to Staples and and get those made up for myself. Heather Pineault: And we could have a little note saying. scan for more information or take a flyer Mary Ann Borkowski: for your it's probably. you know. we'll be there discussing that. Heather Pineault: We'll be talking all right. Thank you so much for your work on this. and it's a clear. actionable step. something we can do. Mary Ann Borkowski: Yeah. thank you Heather Pineault: so Agenda Item number nine. we don't. we weren't really going to discuss it a whole lot tonight. In your packet. there were two documents that were a bit. you know. from criteria we've used in the past about this guy deciding whether or not to issue an HR dei statement. as well as guidelines for selecting programs. And what we are wondering is there. is there anybody who'd like to take a stab at just drafting using what we have already drafting guidelines with Karen for posting on our Facebook page.
Mary Ann Borkowski: Sign up right away. Yeah. Heather Pineault: don't all talk at once. Um. Um. we have two documents to work from. so we wouldn't be starting from scratch. and the goal would be to bring an example using the two guidelines for us to discuss at our next meeting.
Maryam Libdi: Okay. I can work with Karen on that. Heather Pineault: Thanks very much. Marion. that's great. I appreciate it. Maryam. with Karen. Facebook guidelines. and what we'll do is if. if you both come up with some sort of draft and distribute it to us before our next meeting. then we can talk about it at the next meeting. Thank you. Agenda Item Number 10 is really quick. We saw that there was an announcement. and just wanted to share publicly that the schools had received the hate crime prevention grant. so they're going to be doing specific work around preventing hate in schools. And one thought that was in the Wayland post. There was an article about it. and maybe that's something we could hear from the schools directly at some point down the road. but we just wanted to put it on your radar screens in terms of ongoing business. Maryam Libdi: Oh. sorry. I have a question about what you mentioned. Yes. sorry. was someone else talking? Sorry. No. go ahead. please. I'm just wondering what we know about that grant. like. what's the extent of the information we have about what's happening? Heather Pineault: All that I know about it is what was in your packet. and that was from the Wayland Post article. So we certainly could reach out to the schools and learn more about it and what they're doing. We have invited the leadership from the district to one or two meetings like over the years to kind of share what they're doing. and we could do that again with would that be helpful? Asma Khan: I think that's a good idea. Mary Ann Borkowski: And I think it's a good way to to. you know. Maryam Libdi: collaborate. yeah. Mary Ann Borkowski: okay. have a relationship. Thanks. Heather Pineault: Thank you for bringing that up. noted for getting on a future agenda. Any other comments or or questions?
All right. in terms of ongoing business. I have some updates regarding the community conversation with district attorney Marion Ryan. and here we go. The flyer is almost done. so you don't have to worry about the flyer. Mary Ann. Mary Ann Borkowski: other than I want it. Heather Pineault: other than you want it. Yes. I understand that they're getting a QR code for registration. The program will be held hybrid. Ed Berman will work on that with Jailyn. and we'll hopefully have an owl to use this.
Kevin Goodwin: So there won't be a like. an in person meeting. Heather Pineault: It will be hybrid. So it will be both. People can sign up and come to the event online or via zoom or in person. A WayCAM will record the presentation. but they don't have the capacity to live stream from the Council on Aging So. but they will be able to record. DA Ryan will take questions in person or in writing. So either way. we will be using a regular zoom format. because of the district attorney prefers to use that rather than the webinar. where it's just one way and Marianne. not Mary Anne. sorry. Karen is working on a registration form. So that is. that's the update on that program. which will be on November 10. The hrdic in your package. You have the meeting dates. Please note the date at the top should say 2025. 26 Mary Ann Borkowski: that's the dates in the years. Heather Pineault: the years. yes. sorry about that. That is 2526 good neighbors day. So Courtney from the library. we had agreed to co sponsor and be involved with us from 10 to she's wondering about help from 10 to one. It's running from 10 to one on September 22 September 27 help with setup. breakdown. hospitality. running activities. So if any of us can be there. either maybe in a hour or 10 to 12 or 11 to one capacity. that would be great. And it is on September 27 is there anybody who can that knows right now? They can be there for summer. part of it. Mary Ann Borkowski: that's a Saturday too. right? Yeah.
Asma Khan: I can probably volunteer from 11 to 12. Okay? Heather Pineault: Thank you. Anybody else able to do an hour at some point? I will. I can be there. And I'm guessing Karen. if anybody else can come at some point. that would be great. Mary Ann Borkowski: When we send out the notes. why don't you highlight or. or. I don't know. we don't actually usually send out the notes. We won't get the notes before next meeting. I would. I would send out Heather Pineault: an email. Okay? We will send a reminder or ask for names. Yes. sign up. Um. indigenous people's day. just a little bit of an update ahead of that. this regarding the state flag and seal Karen sent an email to everybody it's it's in your your email box about movement that the state committee is taking feedback on proposed state flag and seal options. I looked yesterday to see it was supposed to be coming up like. like. now and still on the state website. I didn't see dates. but they are supposed to be running listening sessions. and you could also email any feedback you have. I think this is important just to mention. because this is something we have. actually. we've taken action on over the last couple of years. Last year. the HRDEI supported the petitioners article endorsing changing the state flag in the seal. Prior to that. we did a program at the library together with the library. So it is an example of something that's actionable. that we can do to help make a difference. and it's something that we can all do individually. So please check out the email or go online. If you look up the Mass State Seal. the mass state flag. you can find it online as well. Yes. I Mary Ann Borkowski: would also say that. you know. it's the pressure that's been coming from the towns have brought the state to do this. I mean. the state had kind of thought about it. They weren't. you know. the Attorney General wasn't. all right. I don't who's responsible. They just weren't getting this group together. So. you know. this is. it's taken a few years. but it's. there's been some movement here. That's the only reason this is on our on the schedule that the state is doing this is because people towns have passed resolutions like we did. and have been saying that this is important. They want to see this so. Maryam Libdi: So what other collective action can come out of our group? Heather Pineault: So as a whole group. I don't know that there's anything as a group. but we they are hosting listening sessions. I couldn't find them when I looked online for the state. so I'm not sure they've been scheduled yet. So again. I was on the mass.gov It's there on the round three selections. and they've got 1.2.3. 3. flags. 3 seal and three flag submissions that are online as well as model submissions. And I think we just need to continue to put the pressure on to move forward and and even ask when it when is this happening? This. It was reported that these listening sessions would be going on. I believe in September and October. So our participation. individually. I don't know. Do you if we as a committee would want to do anything? Did you have anything in mind? Maryam Libdi: I'm not sure what's been done in the past. but I understand our role as communicating these issues to the general public in our town. So I don't know if a statement has been issued about this from our group. but I think something like that. with a call to action for people to maybe join those hearings or something would be. you know. proactive thing to do. Heather Pineault: Maybe a news and announcement. yeah. a news and announcement. maybe on a Facebook post and a Facebook just because it's no. you know. in town. when the petitioners article came forward endorsing the change. that was one thing that we acted on. and we voted it. We voted to support that. So this could be a logical follow up. Mary Anne. can you Mary Ann Borkowski: do something about Heather Pineault: Yeah. and the link. there is a link on mass.gov that I Well. if you do that. but it does. Give any dates yet. right? But. yeah. Maryam. that's great. Thank you. I Are you okay? Working on that? Mary Ann. and then whatever you find. can we share to get on the Facebook? Mary Ann Borkowski: I guess I kind of. you know. I've been playing with the idea about. you know. what Wayland Post does. and i i miss. you know. So. you know. we're looking at a couple of things here that it's almost like an important things that we want the community to know. And I'm thinking of drafting. you know. just like some announcements or something. even if it's referring them to the to our website. but to kind of give them a heads up. because this is an opportunity. you know. because they have the opportunity and obligation as citizens to respond about this. And you know. we know about it. and lots of people don't know about it because they. you know. haven't seen our notices. So. and it'd be nice if it we put it in the Wayland post. So I will. I'll play with that idea Heather Pineault: some sort of announcement that Mary Ann Borkowski: was innocuous not a lot of you know. because I don't feel like I want to add language to it. I just want to make sure that we've shared so that people know that they could. they could have. they could have their voice heard. Heather Pineault: I thought I found a place to vote. but I think it's just online. boss. It doesn't go to the state. I think it's like a Boston news site saying. how would you vote? And it shows all the pictures. which. but I don't think that's official. so that would be great if. Mary Ann Borkowski: Okay. Mary. to their committee. to our committee. No to Kevin Goodwin: to. oh. news and Heather Pineault: announcement in your our website. website. so on our public website. news and announcements. I Mary Ann Borkowski: mean something for Wayland Post and then trying to get an idea about whether they would ever have us be like. in a column like. you know. this is what I mean. we're kind of a unique town committee where. you know. we would have things to say to the greater community about. you know. that we would want to share well. Heather Pineault: And the other question would be. just for the Wayland Post. This is news in the past just few weeks. like it's it's all come up since. like August 28 would be just even? Would they be able to? Would they be willing to? You could even connect it to the fact that the petitioners article last year endorsed this we voted on at a town meeting. right? And could they connect it to the fact that this is coming out. so maybe just flagging it for them will be enough for sorry to do an article. right? Okay. thank you. Mary Ann and Thank you Mariam for always reminding us to do actionable things. Does anybody else have any thoughts on that or any questions?
Okay. does anybody have we're on an agenda item. agenda item number 12 announcements and topics not anticipated in 48 hours in advance. Does anybody have anything?
Maryam Libdi: I have a question. yes. but I'm not very sure if this is the right committee for it. So during my discussion with several parents in town. whether in schools or in soccer. there's this issue of like. you know. sidewalks or like. proper signals along the crossings of the trail. And I know this may fall. it may seem like it falls under another committee. but I'm looking at it from. you know. child protection slash disability lens. and I don't know if there's something we can do to help push some of those changes.
Mary Ann Borkowski: What is the issue? I don't. I don't know the issue. Unknown: So the generally. the the roads in Wayland are not considered very safe just because of how they're geographically constructed. There's lots of places with no sidewalks along the rail trail that we have. There's so many crossings that could be risky for someone older or someone who is challenged. And I feel like. like from a human rights perspective. we should be able to champion specific changes that people want to see
Mary Ann Borkowski: you mean just at anywhere Heather Pineault: it's safety. So it's a long standing complaint or concern. yes. especially with families lack of sidewalks along road. So roads. Mary Ann Borkowski: you mean our rural character? Heather Pineault: Yes. a rural character means a lot of the roads aren't safe. and it's a long standing discussion that's been going on as long as I. Been in this community. and I've noticed it too at several places where. like the rail trail crosses or the aqueduct crosses a major road. Is there a better way to have. you know. better lights or something. or. you know. the flashers that go on for crossing? Is that DPW. why don't we work on Mayor Karen. and I will find out more about who we would talk to about that
Maryam Libdi: perfect thank you. Sarah Shtutin: I know some people who have been working on this. and I completely understand the point and agree. but it's just very. very hard. And we've talked to the police. you know. police department to say these. this is unsafe for our kids. and it's just it's very hard. Heather Pineault: It runs. it tends to run against. like Marion said. the semi rural feel. And not everybody is in agreement about wanting sidewalks or how many. Mary Ann Borkowski: but I lived on Draper Hill Road and or Draper road. and it was the kids could not walk down that road. You couldn't do Halloween on that road. You could Heather Pineault: not use that road. It was scared walking to school alone or anything? Yeah. no. Unknown: So I understand there's a long history with this that I have no clue about. but honestly. the bare minimum is signaling. you know. signals with lights. things like that. That may be a middle way between people who want full blown. you know. sidewalks. and people who don't want to change the rule of views.
Heather Pineault: Sarah. do you have more information about who to talk to or who to connect with?
Sarah Shtutin: Not off the top of my head. I just know a friend of mine whose son is hard of hearing. so she. you know. is constantly concerned that there's going to be a car that he's not going to hear. that he's going to be no not quite at the side of the road. And she tried to get sidewalks on her street near the Cochituate. And she. like I said. talk to the police chief. talked to DPW. and it's just she wasn't able to do it. I mean. it also takes property away from all of the neighbors that are on that road. at least on one side or the other. which technically the town can do. because it's eminent domain. but a lot of people would push back. So she was not looking at it from a human rights perspective. She was looking at it more from a safety perspective for her child. And I think if there were more families that rallied together. potentially. this is something that that could be raised. but there's just as many people who rally against their land being encroached upon.
Mary Ann Borkowski: So I would share that article five of well. when you think Tom meeting. forget about the Article Five. but that there's we could write an article. you know. for Tom meeting on this topic. if a group of people got together. and. you know. did some work on that. and. you know. for consideration. So. you know. we really. this. really could be brought. you know. instead of going and saying. I want a sidewalk on mine that. you know. that we could look into the safety issue. I don't know. but you know. we should. Heather Pineault: yeah. let me since. since it's not on the agenda for full discussion. let me talk to Karen and see about putting it on Agenda for a future and continuing the conversation. even if we well. we don't know what we can get without asking. but at a minimum. there's there's disability rights and access in some places. and then there's clearly safety as well. And if they don't want to go as far as taking property. perhaps that the just lights for making Safe. safe places to cross the street. at least. But I will talk about getting on an agenda for the future. Does anybody have anything else that was unanticipated. and for folks who joined us a little bit later. I just want to say we did have great news last night. and I don't know if Sophie is still on. but Sophie Chen is our new student who will be joining Maya. and she was just appointed last night. so she was not able to get sworn in today. but will be joining us in October. So that's exciting news. and thank you. Any other announcements? Uh. do we have a motion to adjourn? Kevin Goodwin: I motion. I motion that we our I make a motion that we adjourn at 755. Heather Pineault: 755. Kevin made a motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Yes. Marianne seconded the emotion. and let's do roll call. SARAH Yes. Asma. yes. Mariam. yes. Maya. yes. Mary. Ann. yes. Kevin. yes. yeah. well. and I vote yes as well. Thank you very much. everybody. I appreciate that.
Municipal Affordable Housing Trust
16-Sep-25 - Municipal Affordable Housing Trust23:34
2-Sep-25 - Municipal Affordable Housing Trust33:50
Michael Staiti: Uh Calling to
order the September 16 meeting
of the Wayland municipal
Affordable Housing Trust. One
may watch and participate
remotely with the link that can
be found at the wayland.mass.us
website. Pursuant to chapter two
of the acts of 2025 this meeting
will be conducted via remote
means in accordance with the
applicable law. This meeting may
be recorded. with which will be
made available to the public on
WayCAM as soon after the meeting
as this practical. In attendance
is Susan Weinstein. Jaclyn Vega.
Marie antes and Mike stady. open
meeting and consider public
comment. Seeing no public
comment. gonna move to reviewing
and approving the minutes from
the July 8 and the September 2
meeting. My only comment was on
the July 8 meeting minutes. they
were labeled September 2. Mary
says she's already corrected
that she'd already picked up on
that. on that they look good to
me.
Susan Weinstein: On updates.
Paragraph two. or whatever.
number two on the third line. I
think we need a D on Hammond.
yep. okay. and at the top of the
next page. with the 44 802. I
think that there were $2 signs.
But content wise. I thought it
was great. So with those
amendments. I move approval.
Michael Staiti: I'll second
you're moving approval of both
of them.
Unknown: Oh. do Sorry. I could
do the other one.
Susan Weinstein: I On the September 2 one. If you scroll down. can't even tell what page Am I on. Page two. there's 212 Cochituate road. For the last sentence. I would like us to insert at the request of the trustees. and then he will continue to push. So at the request of the trustees. comma he will continue to Michael Staiti: push. I like that. Edit. I thank you. Susan Weinstein: And then in number three. consider purchase of 14 West plain. The last sentence says that they'll hold a hearing. I don't remember whether it was a hearing or just a meeting. so I'd probably just put meeting. Boy. Anybody have
anything else with this? Nope. not me. in which case I will move approval of the minutes of July 8. 2025. and September 2. 2025. as amended. Michael Staiti: Great. Do I have a second? Second? Okay? Roll call vote. Susan. yep. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. And Mike. yes. Unknown: thank you. Mary. great.
Michael Staiti: So next item is review and approve bills of all cock markets for $3.232 that's actually the approval is for. I know the bill shows a total of 3022 32 but we already approved most of that. The new bill is like $322 and it was for filing fees and cost of de registering the land from land court. So like Tom. there's no questions like some of you move to approve that the bill. Unknown: Is it the 367 50 Michael Staiti: zero to 30 days? Like. yes. that's the amount. So if you can move the approval of that. Jackie. we could vote on that Unknown: move to approve the 367 50 cents to all caught and Marcus LLC. Michael Staiti: second. okay. Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. And then the Wayland housing authority bill for $12.870 before we vote on that one. I just Susan Weinstein: Oh. you know what? Sorry. we need to go back for that one that we just did and specify the funding source as CPA funds. Michael Staiti: Funny source. CPA funds. Unknown: I still say yes. Michael Staiti: We need to vote again. Unknown: I would just to
Michael Staiti: Okay. Jackie. did you move that? Yes. Jackie. moved it. Susan. second. all right. Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. All right. Susan. would you please speak to the document that Brian Hurley sent over to us in. I'm hoping you reviewed it. I don't know if everybody else has reviewed it. I believe it says. like we can pay shortcomings. but they got to pay us back in the future.
Susan Weinstein: That was the agreement that we made. Was that the that the housing authority would pay back any advances that we did. and if the balance of reserves reaches 250 then it would be replenished. Michael Staiti: right? Ever actually funded that reserve? That'd be the first question. But regardless. they had a shortfall. They they showed us that I we voted to approve the shortfall. But I think. you know. we should let Brian Bojan know that in accordance with the lease agreement. as their surpluses going forward. they need to repay that if Susan Weinstein: we want to enforce that. I mean. just because. just because it's a term in the lease. doesn't mean we have to. I mean it for if it was a an obligation of ours. then yes. we would have to. but Right. if it's a benefit to us. we don't necessarily have to.
Michael Staiti: All right. so I don't think that changes our approval. I agree. I do think that we let Brian know that in the course of the least we have the right we may or may not ever come after that money. But just wanted to make sure he is aware of the lease terms. So if the committee is fine with that. I will send him a lead email. I did. Oh. you did already. so he's aware of it. Susan Weinstein: Great. So yeah. and I. and I. I think we want to make sure that we don't cut into money that the housing authority should be paid in order to do the work. So that's concerned about the repayment thing. about taking it off the Housing Authority share Michael Staiti: no right. I mean. and Brian's. they've done a great job for us and furthering the cause for the town. So I don't see it happening. But can I have a motion to approve the payment of that amount? Susan Weinstein: I move that we pay the invoice from the housing authority for $12.870 from the Community Preservation funds. Michael Staiti: Great. Very second. I'll second roll call vote. Unknown: Susan. sorry. I'm just thinking yes. Michael Staiti: Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. and Mike. yes. All right. Next item review the annual report. Thank you. Susan. thought it looked Excellent. Susan Weinstein: Oh. there was something that I just saw the 400.000 for habitat. We didn't approve that last fiscal year. I don't think I looked through all the minutes and didn't see it. Michael Staiti: It's it's kind of a misnomer. because we approve funding for it. I mean. it was part of the whole RFP that we put out. But we. when they sell it. we get paid back.
Unknown: So it's an advance or something. proceeds Michael Staiti: of the sale. right? So based on the expected value of the sale price. based on the whole calculation for our income for our area. we're projected to get a lot of that back. So it Susan Weinstein: was just that I had articulated the expenses that we had approved. even though not all of them were paid in that year. and I just wasn't sure whether to put that 400 in there. Michael Staiti: right. and if we got to put it in there. I think we clarify that it's you know in advance for the construction. and that you know upon the sale. will be reimbursed the pros the proceeds from the sale. Susan Weinstein: Maybe I'll just put it in the 2026 because it's not like officially approved until we sign the purchase and sale. right. or until we until we execute that. Michael Staiti: Yeah. I'm fine with that.
Susan Weinstein: and I did. I did get a thing from Melanie in the finance department that said we only had two expenses. Okay. two seconds.
Mary Antes: I'm sorry the second bullet isn't the same set. Is as the first Susan Weinstein: bullet. if you care. one of these bullets is not the same. yeah. you know. I think I noticed that. and I I
couldn't necessarily think of how to do it. Mary Antes: You can let the town worry about it.
Susan Weinstein: but I was very pleased with myself that I figured out the financial stuff. Yeah. can't teach an old dog new tricks. I guess he Mary Antes: volunteered for to do it for next year.
Michael Staiti: Did you already maybe I just missed this. But did you correct that it's goals for fiscal year. 2026 not 25 on page two. got it?
Okay. Nobody else has any other comments. Can I Unknown: have? Do we agree with those goals? Michael Staiti: Yeah. absolutely. That'd be awesome if we did all that next year use up that money.
Mary Antes: All right. approval as amended. Unknown: I'll second that. Michael Staiti: All right. Mary. motion second from Susan. roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. The mic. yes. Fantastic. Moving right along. Unknown: So I will submit that. Thank you. Michael Staiti: The second point for 615 we've already discussed. so we're going to skip over that topics not recently anticipated by the chair. 48 hours advance. steal Mary's thunder. and Mary. without having to say a word. got our zoning board approval last week while I was out of the country. So thank you very much. Mary Antes: Mary got our what very easy. Michael Staiti: We had to get a amended zoning board approval for the new footprint that habitat requested. So I will follow up when the amendment is written and make sure it's recorded. and get all the recording information to habitat that well. that's going to be the next thing we're going to talk about is the habitat master deed. But Mary. thanks for covering Unknown: for me. Yay. Mary. Michael Staiti: So over the last month or so. I've been talking. Susan had reviewed the master deed prior over the summer. habitat. commented back. reached out. we had a conversation few weeks ago. and they returned it. Cleaned up master deed to me last week. which I only just forwarded to Susan today. so I doubt she's had a chance to review it. But basically. everything's been agreed on. There's just a couple of questions that Susan had raised about technical things with housing vouchers. and that I'm not sure they need to be addressed in the master deed. but I wanted Susan's feedback on that before I give the final approval to habitat. So Susan. that doesn't have to be tonight. You can email Susan Weinstein: me. I mean. I don't know the answer. I don't think it matters that much. Michael Staiti: Yeah. it didn't seem to impact the deed or the construction of the house. It was more related to the rental. I think. But So if. Susan. if you're okay with that. then the master deed is done. and I will let habitat know that we're ready to move forward and see now. with the zoning board approval. I think that they're ready to move towards closing.
and I hopefully will be able to report that at the next meeting. Susan Weinstein: Yeah. there was something I'm sorry. Mary Antes: What I was we've already voted to give him. give Mike authority to sign it so correct. Where else it should be all set. Susan Weinstein: Their attorney had proposed some language with regard to and that's fine with me. to incorporate. And.
yeah. I don't know the answer on the housing voucher thing. I would guess that. I would guess that maybe if we just said
subject to state and federal law. but that's probably implicit. The issue is whether. whether we can evict someone. or whether. you know. the trustees of the condo can evict someone. And I just wanted to make. Sure that. that we knew we had to comply with whatever laws apply to whoever's living in there. Michael Staiti: We can't evict the person that buys the house. You know. the condo laws provide for rules if they don't pay their HOA fees. you can attach liens. That's all covered in standard mass condo law.
Susan Weinstein: yeah. this is if they rent it out. So it would be our unit. because we'd probably rent to someone who has a voucher. Michael Staiti: So you're saying the person that buys the affordable house. can they then go rent it out? Susan Weinstein: No. I think I'm talking about our unit.
Unknown: Okay? I was gonna say. because
Susan Weinstein: there's this whole thing that's about leasing it out and what the restrictions are on leasing. we'll just assume that we have to comply with federal and state law. I think it's implicit. okay.
Michael Staiti: okay. well. hopefully I'll have something to report back from them at our next meeting. Also. I wanted to talk about 212 Cochituate. so I'm having trouble. I missed one meeting just because it was way and it was attended last week's meeting. For a while. I'm finding that I don't have the time or bandwidth. and frankly. the meetings are more focused. or almost entirely focused. on the group homes. what's the appropriate type of group home. and not on my specialty around development permitting and construction. So I'm not going to be able to be on that board anymore. I'm just not. I don't have the time being with or the interest on that particular subject. So I'm going to tell Tom Fay that I'm available as a consultant for anything they want. on consulting. pricing. estimating. testing. engineering. the things I can help with. I'm hoping there's somebody else from this board that's more knowledgeable and interested in the group home aspect of things. which is really the focus of that committee. It's not in they can't get a read on whether they're trying to create money for the town through selling one for market rate or but the focus is primarily on the group home. How big? What? What group? What? What? You know. restricted away the residents. etc. etc. So if there's anybody else that would like to step up. Great otherwise. I'm going to resign from that committee and let them know I'm available as a consultant on technical things. but I just can't. just not add any value. and I don't have the time to to do that. So my apologies. but Susan Weinstein: I am entirely not available. I I'm heading into Community Preservation season. My job has changed. What About Brian Boja? Yeah. Is it in. in composing the committee or comprised? Did they specify someone from the trust? Does that be someone from the trust or someone representing the trust? I don't know. Well. I would say that if it can be someone representing the trust. then if Brian Bose is willing to represent us. and he's not representing anyone else. then that would be good with me. Yes. he's Michael Staiti: already pretty busy with it. and then Housing Authority meetings. isn't he.
I don't know. We can ask him. Mary Antes: What was your question. Mike. if Michael Staiti: Brian's gonna have the bandwidth to do it either. but I guess we can ask him. and he can say. No. Susan Weinstein: I mean. we meet. It's something that he's continually expressed interest in. you know. the project. and He usually comes to our meetings. so we would be able to give him direction and appreciation and and I think that. I think that he's consistent with what it is that we want. But Jackie. if you want to do it.
Unknown: I know nothing about cool phones. and I thought Catherine was on that one too. on the 212 No. Mary Antes: yes. but she's representing the Housing Partnership. and John Thomas is representing the Housing Authority. If we wanted. we could switch the two. And. Let Brian do the housing authority and and John be our
representative.
Susan Weinstein: Let's see if he'll do for us. We'll let John have you know. represent the commissioners of the housing authority.
Mary Antes: We need to vote assuming that he will Susan Weinstein: accept. sure if. if he's willing to serve. I would nominate Brian Boja to represent the housing trust in the discussions regarding 212 Cochituate. Sorry. on the committee for 212 Cochituate. Mary Antes: I'll second it. Okay. Michael Staiti: Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. okay. I will let Tom know what we're doing. what we're hoping Brian will do. Susan. can you reach out to Brian and ask him if he can represent us? Alrighty. anybody else? Have anything else Mary Antes: we are supposed to have an annual meeting. So the next. our next meeting should have
Michael Staiti: let's look out in mid to late October. Does that sound good to everybody? Yeah. so eighth or 22nd anybody have any preferences? Susan Weinstein: I'm not going to be here the 15th. Unknown: all right. 22nd work? Susan Weinstein: No. I'm trying to think I might be able to call in on the 15th. Michael Staiti: What about the 14th? Are you out of town? I Susan Weinstein: will be out of town on the 15th. I'll be home on the 14th. I think.
Michael Staiti: Monday's nights don't work. Oh. my sorry. 14th is a Tuesday. right? Yeah. sorry. I meant to say the 14th. It's 14th. Work for anybody with me.
Susan Weinstein: what's that? I can do it Unknown: great. Fine with 14th at six o'clock.
Michael Staiti: I don't have anything from habitat or zba or anything that came in. Moving forward. I'm going to cancel it because don't have anything else going on other than paying that one small bill. and they waited seven months for the bigger bills.
Susan Weinstein: All right. Well. then would you like me to say it's 623 and I move we adjourn? I would okay. it's 623 I
Michael Staiti: have a second. I'll second roll call. Jackie Yes. Susan. yes. Mary and Mike. yes. Thank you all very much. Everybody.
Susan Weinstein: I On the September 2 one. If you scroll down. can't even tell what page Am I on. Page two. there's 212 Cochituate road. For the last sentence. I would like us to insert at the request of the trustees. and then he will continue to push. So at the request of the trustees. comma he will continue to Michael Staiti: push. I like that. Edit. I thank you. Susan Weinstein: And then in number three. consider purchase of 14 West plain. The last sentence says that they'll hold a hearing. I don't remember whether it was a hearing or just a meeting. so I'd probably just put meeting. Boy. Anybody have
anything else with this? Nope. not me. in which case I will move approval of the minutes of July 8. 2025. and September 2. 2025. as amended. Michael Staiti: Great. Do I have a second? Second? Okay? Roll call vote. Susan. yep. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. And Mike. yes. Unknown: thank you. Mary. great.
Michael Staiti: So next item is review and approve bills of all cock markets for $3.232 that's actually the approval is for. I know the bill shows a total of 3022 32 but we already approved most of that. The new bill is like $322 and it was for filing fees and cost of de registering the land from land court. So like Tom. there's no questions like some of you move to approve that the bill. Unknown: Is it the 367 50 Michael Staiti: zero to 30 days? Like. yes. that's the amount. So if you can move the approval of that. Jackie. we could vote on that Unknown: move to approve the 367 50 cents to all caught and Marcus LLC. Michael Staiti: second. okay. Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. And then the Wayland housing authority bill for $12.870 before we vote on that one. I just Susan Weinstein: Oh. you know what? Sorry. we need to go back for that one that we just did and specify the funding source as CPA funds. Michael Staiti: Funny source. CPA funds. Unknown: I still say yes. Michael Staiti: We need to vote again. Unknown: I would just to
Michael Staiti: Okay. Jackie. did you move that? Yes. Jackie. moved it. Susan. second. all right. Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. All right. Susan. would you please speak to the document that Brian Hurley sent over to us in. I'm hoping you reviewed it. I don't know if everybody else has reviewed it. I believe it says. like we can pay shortcomings. but they got to pay us back in the future.
Susan Weinstein: That was the agreement that we made. Was that the that the housing authority would pay back any advances that we did. and if the balance of reserves reaches 250 then it would be replenished. Michael Staiti: right? Ever actually funded that reserve? That'd be the first question. But regardless. they had a shortfall. They they showed us that I we voted to approve the shortfall. But I think. you know. we should let Brian Bojan know that in accordance with the lease agreement. as their surpluses going forward. they need to repay that if Susan Weinstein: we want to enforce that. I mean. just because. just because it's a term in the lease. doesn't mean we have to. I mean it for if it was a an obligation of ours. then yes. we would have to. but Right. if it's a benefit to us. we don't necessarily have to.
Michael Staiti: All right. so I don't think that changes our approval. I agree. I do think that we let Brian know that in the course of the least we have the right we may or may not ever come after that money. But just wanted to make sure he is aware of the lease terms. So if the committee is fine with that. I will send him a lead email. I did. Oh. you did already. so he's aware of it. Susan Weinstein: Great. So yeah. and I. and I. I think we want to make sure that we don't cut into money that the housing authority should be paid in order to do the work. So that's concerned about the repayment thing. about taking it off the Housing Authority share Michael Staiti: no right. I mean. and Brian's. they've done a great job for us and furthering the cause for the town. So I don't see it happening. But can I have a motion to approve the payment of that amount? Susan Weinstein: I move that we pay the invoice from the housing authority for $12.870 from the Community Preservation funds. Michael Staiti: Great. Very second. I'll second roll call vote. Unknown: Susan. sorry. I'm just thinking yes. Michael Staiti: Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. and Mike. yes. All right. Next item review the annual report. Thank you. Susan. thought it looked Excellent. Susan Weinstein: Oh. there was something that I just saw the 400.000 for habitat. We didn't approve that last fiscal year. I don't think I looked through all the minutes and didn't see it. Michael Staiti: It's it's kind of a misnomer. because we approve funding for it. I mean. it was part of the whole RFP that we put out. But we. when they sell it. we get paid back.
Unknown: So it's an advance or something. proceeds Michael Staiti: of the sale. right? So based on the expected value of the sale price. based on the whole calculation for our income for our area. we're projected to get a lot of that back. So it Susan Weinstein: was just that I had articulated the expenses that we had approved. even though not all of them were paid in that year. and I just wasn't sure whether to put that 400 in there. Michael Staiti: right. and if we got to put it in there. I think we clarify that it's you know in advance for the construction. and that you know upon the sale. will be reimbursed the pros the proceeds from the sale. Susan Weinstein: Maybe I'll just put it in the 2026 because it's not like officially approved until we sign the purchase and sale. right. or until we until we execute that. Michael Staiti: Yeah. I'm fine with that.
Susan Weinstein: and I did. I did get a thing from Melanie in the finance department that said we only had two expenses. Okay. two seconds.
Mary Antes: I'm sorry the second bullet isn't the same set. Is as the first Susan Weinstein: bullet. if you care. one of these bullets is not the same. yeah. you know. I think I noticed that. and I I
couldn't necessarily think of how to do it. Mary Antes: You can let the town worry about it.
Susan Weinstein: but I was very pleased with myself that I figured out the financial stuff. Yeah. can't teach an old dog new tricks. I guess he Mary Antes: volunteered for to do it for next year.
Michael Staiti: Did you already maybe I just missed this. But did you correct that it's goals for fiscal year. 2026 not 25 on page two. got it?
Okay. Nobody else has any other comments. Can I Unknown: have? Do we agree with those goals? Michael Staiti: Yeah. absolutely. That'd be awesome if we did all that next year use up that money.
Mary Antes: All right. approval as amended. Unknown: I'll second that. Michael Staiti: All right. Mary. motion second from Susan. roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. The mic. yes. Fantastic. Moving right along. Unknown: So I will submit that. Thank you. Michael Staiti: The second point for 615 we've already discussed. so we're going to skip over that topics not recently anticipated by the chair. 48 hours advance. steal Mary's thunder. and Mary. without having to say a word. got our zoning board approval last week while I was out of the country. So thank you very much. Mary Antes: Mary got our what very easy. Michael Staiti: We had to get a amended zoning board approval for the new footprint that habitat requested. So I will follow up when the amendment is written and make sure it's recorded. and get all the recording information to habitat that well. that's going to be the next thing we're going to talk about is the habitat master deed. But Mary. thanks for covering Unknown: for me. Yay. Mary. Michael Staiti: So over the last month or so. I've been talking. Susan had reviewed the master deed prior over the summer. habitat. commented back. reached out. we had a conversation few weeks ago. and they returned it. Cleaned up master deed to me last week. which I only just forwarded to Susan today. so I doubt she's had a chance to review it. But basically. everything's been agreed on. There's just a couple of questions that Susan had raised about technical things with housing vouchers. and that I'm not sure they need to be addressed in the master deed. but I wanted Susan's feedback on that before I give the final approval to habitat. So Susan. that doesn't have to be tonight. You can email Susan Weinstein: me. I mean. I don't know the answer. I don't think it matters that much. Michael Staiti: Yeah. it didn't seem to impact the deed or the construction of the house. It was more related to the rental. I think. But So if. Susan. if you're okay with that. then the master deed is done. and I will let habitat know that we're ready to move forward and see now. with the zoning board approval. I think that they're ready to move towards closing.
and I hopefully will be able to report that at the next meeting. Susan Weinstein: Yeah. there was something I'm sorry. Mary Antes: What I was we've already voted to give him. give Mike authority to sign it so correct. Where else it should be all set. Susan Weinstein: Their attorney had proposed some language with regard to and that's fine with me. to incorporate. And.
yeah. I don't know the answer on the housing voucher thing. I would guess that. I would guess that maybe if we just said
subject to state and federal law. but that's probably implicit. The issue is whether. whether we can evict someone. or whether. you know. the trustees of the condo can evict someone. And I just wanted to make. Sure that. that we knew we had to comply with whatever laws apply to whoever's living in there. Michael Staiti: We can't evict the person that buys the house. You know. the condo laws provide for rules if they don't pay their HOA fees. you can attach liens. That's all covered in standard mass condo law.
Susan Weinstein: yeah. this is if they rent it out. So it would be our unit. because we'd probably rent to someone who has a voucher. Michael Staiti: So you're saying the person that buys the affordable house. can they then go rent it out? Susan Weinstein: No. I think I'm talking about our unit.
Unknown: Okay? I was gonna say. because
Susan Weinstein: there's this whole thing that's about leasing it out and what the restrictions are on leasing. we'll just assume that we have to comply with federal and state law. I think it's implicit. okay.
Michael Staiti: okay. well. hopefully I'll have something to report back from them at our next meeting. Also. I wanted to talk about 212 Cochituate. so I'm having trouble. I missed one meeting just because it was way and it was attended last week's meeting. For a while. I'm finding that I don't have the time or bandwidth. and frankly. the meetings are more focused. or almost entirely focused. on the group homes. what's the appropriate type of group home. and not on my specialty around development permitting and construction. So I'm not going to be able to be on that board anymore. I'm just not. I don't have the time being with or the interest on that particular subject. So I'm going to tell Tom Fay that I'm available as a consultant for anything they want. on consulting. pricing. estimating. testing. engineering. the things I can help with. I'm hoping there's somebody else from this board that's more knowledgeable and interested in the group home aspect of things. which is really the focus of that committee. It's not in they can't get a read on whether they're trying to create money for the town through selling one for market rate or but the focus is primarily on the group home. How big? What? What group? What? What? You know. restricted away the residents. etc. etc. So if there's anybody else that would like to step up. Great otherwise. I'm going to resign from that committee and let them know I'm available as a consultant on technical things. but I just can't. just not add any value. and I don't have the time to to do that. So my apologies. but Susan Weinstein: I am entirely not available. I I'm heading into Community Preservation season. My job has changed. What About Brian Boja? Yeah. Is it in. in composing the committee or comprised? Did they specify someone from the trust? Does that be someone from the trust or someone representing the trust? I don't know. Well. I would say that if it can be someone representing the trust. then if Brian Bose is willing to represent us. and he's not representing anyone else. then that would be good with me. Yes. he's Michael Staiti: already pretty busy with it. and then Housing Authority meetings. isn't he.
I don't know. We can ask him. Mary Antes: What was your question. Mike. if Michael Staiti: Brian's gonna have the bandwidth to do it either. but I guess we can ask him. and he can say. No. Susan Weinstein: I mean. we meet. It's something that he's continually expressed interest in. you know. the project. and He usually comes to our meetings. so we would be able to give him direction and appreciation and and I think that. I think that he's consistent with what it is that we want. But Jackie. if you want to do it.
Unknown: I know nothing about cool phones. and I thought Catherine was on that one too. on the 212 No. Mary Antes: yes. but she's representing the Housing Partnership. and John Thomas is representing the Housing Authority. If we wanted. we could switch the two. And. Let Brian do the housing authority and and John be our
representative.
Susan Weinstein: Let's see if he'll do for us. We'll let John have you know. represent the commissioners of the housing authority.
Mary Antes: We need to vote assuming that he will Susan Weinstein: accept. sure if. if he's willing to serve. I would nominate Brian Boja to represent the housing trust in the discussions regarding 212 Cochituate. Sorry. on the committee for 212 Cochituate. Mary Antes: I'll second it. Okay. Michael Staiti: Roll call vote. Susan. yes. Jackie. yes. Mary. yes. Mike. yes. okay. I will let Tom know what we're doing. what we're hoping Brian will do. Susan. can you reach out to Brian and ask him if he can represent us? Alrighty. anybody else? Have anything else Mary Antes: we are supposed to have an annual meeting. So the next. our next meeting should have
Michael Staiti: let's look out in mid to late October. Does that sound good to everybody? Yeah. so eighth or 22nd anybody have any preferences? Susan Weinstein: I'm not going to be here the 15th. Unknown: all right. 22nd work? Susan Weinstein: No. I'm trying to think I might be able to call in on the 15th. Michael Staiti: What about the 14th? Are you out of town? I Susan Weinstein: will be out of town on the 15th. I'll be home on the 14th. I think.
Michael Staiti: Monday's nights don't work. Oh. my sorry. 14th is a Tuesday. right? Yeah. sorry. I meant to say the 14th. It's 14th. Work for anybody with me.
Susan Weinstein: what's that? I can do it Unknown: great. Fine with 14th at six o'clock.
Michael Staiti: I don't have anything from habitat or zba or anything that came in. Moving forward. I'm going to cancel it because don't have anything else going on other than paying that one small bill. and they waited seven months for the bigger bills.
Susan Weinstein: All right. Well. then would you like me to say it's 623 and I move we adjourn? I would okay. it's 623 I
Michael Staiti: have a second. I'll second roll call. Jackie Yes. Susan. yes. Mary and Mike. yes. Thank you all very much. Everybody.
Personnel Board
3-Sep-25 - Personnel Board
Maryanne Peabody: I will. oh.
thank you. I will call the
personnel board meeting of
Wednesday. September 3 to order.
and Paul Morenberg has agreed to
take the minutes. Thank you.
Paul. And umm. it's a hybrid.
No. it's totally zoom meeting
today. isn't it? Or are you
hybrid? Kate. oh. you're
Katherine Ryan: no. it's zoom.
Maryanne Peabody: zoom. okay.
And one may watch or may
participate remotely with the
meeting link that can be found
at https. colon. slash. slash.
backslash.
www.wayland.ma.us/public-body-meeting-information-virtual-in.person.
dash and dash hybrid. pursuant
to chapter two of the acts of
2023 this meeting is remote
session. and in accordance with
the applicable law. this meeting
is being recorded and will be
made available to the public on
WayCAM as soon after the meeting
as is practicable. In the
meeting room. we have board
members. Mary Ellen Castagno.
Tom Morenberg. Maryanne Peabody
myself. Kate Ryan. the HR
manager. and for the town of
Wayland. and the Zoom meeting
manager is Robbie. Are you? Is
Robbie here?
Robbie Bullard: Yes. I'm here.
Maryanne Peabody: Okay. Robbie.
and I'm blanking on your last
name. and I know it.
Robbie Bullard: Bullard.
Maryanne Peabody: yes. my my
daughter's friend last name. so
I always usually remember it. So
thank you. I will read the
agenda for the public call to
order announcement and public
comment. discussion and possible
vote on proposed changes to
Chapter 43 personnel bylaw. And
Trudy Reid is going to join us
for that portion. I believe.
discussion and possible vote to
approve the personnel board
annual report. if available. and
then a human resource Director's
Report with personnel board
questions and comments with an
update on the classification and
compensation study. We will then
have a discussion about the
personnel board setting a
regular. regularly scheduled
meeting monthly. We usually
change it every month. so I'd
like to have a discussion about
that. and then discussion and
approval of open session meeting
minutes of May 6. 2025. and June
11. 2025. is available. I do not
believe they're they're
available here. I know I will
have. I think I did the May
ones. Kate. I think so. Yeah.
yeah. I will have them available
at our next meeting. and then
personnel board members reports
and concerns topics not
reasonably anticipated. 48 hours
in advance. if any. we'll set
the next meeting date and
adjourn. I don't anticipate a
long meeting here. We have two
items that need to be completed
by the end of September. which
is a discussion regarding the
personnel bylaw. and then a
discussion of the annual report.
So if we can have the first
agenda item. announcements and
public comments. I have no
announcements. Kate. are there
any announcements?
Katherine Ryan: No. not right
now. not at this time.
Maryanne Peabody: I see you got
your haircut. it looks really nice.
Katherine Ryan: Thank you.
Maryanne Peabody: by the way. I
like that. And then. is the town
clerk available to meet with us?
Robbie Bullard: Yeah. I'll bring
her right now.
Unknown: Okay. thank you. hi.
Trudy. we can see that you're in
but we can't hear you yet.
Trudy Reid: How's this?
Maryanne Peabody: That sounds
great. Thank you. Trudy. Are we
going to see you now?
Trudy Reid: Oh. well. I'm
trying.
Maryanne Peabody: Okay. if not.
Trudy Reid: I'm not sure why.
but. I'm here
Unknown: um. okay. great. Thank
you. It's my understanding that
the town is having the bylaws
all recertified or recodified.
and I'm going to let Trudy tell
you about it. but the consultant
that she has used has made some
recommendations. and I don't
think this board will be
surprised by those
recommendations. because we also
recommended them the last go
around with this bylaw. But.
Trudy Why don't you give us a
little bit of background about
what it is you're doing for the
town and what you want us to
hear
Trudy Reid: so I apologize. I
don't know how to get my video
to work. So we are doing a
recodification of the entire set
of bylaws when General Code. who
is the vendor who currently host
the bylaws online. did a review.
Wayland has not done a complete
recodification in 20 plus years.
It may even be 25 so they took
several months. many months.
Their legal team looked at our
bylaws. compared them to state
by law. just to make sure that
we were at least at state
compliance. if not better. and
then they send all of that
information back to me.
So for the last several months.
I've been working with either
Department Head Staff or boards
and committee chairs to answer
their questions. So now we're
going through a review of our
own to see what we want to do
with those so for your section
on the personnel board bylaws.
there were four definitions. and
they suggested that we remove
them. because they're not
referenced anywhere else in the
personnel bylaws. and I can grab
it really quick. but I don't
have those four definitions in
front of me. I don't know if
somebody there does
Maryanne Peabody: well. So we
did get. we did get the first
page. Kate sent that to us as
redacted. and it's all redacted.
So it's not four definitions.
but all the definitions have
been redacted. so I don't know
is this.
Trudy Reid: let me I'm going to
grab my copy. Hold on for a sec
Maryanne Peabody: Okay. sure.
Katherine Ryan: I just shared my
screen. So this is the existing
bylaw definition section.
Paul Morenberg: And if I can interject. my recollection is. when we looked at this. our board felt the definition should be removed. I mean. this is. this was definitely discussed. I mean it. you know. because I don't. I don't think they're either all used or certainly not consistently used in other parts of our bylaw. I'm sorry. warrants much discussion. but I think the definition should be removed as well. Mary Ellen Castagno: But we had them removed. They were already moved. They were already redlined. Maryanne Peabody: Paul. so no. they didn't. they didn't get removed. right? Oh. we had suggested they be removed. but they didn't get removed. So Trudy. are you saying they're they're suggesting some of them be removed. or all of them? Trudy Reid: No. just four of them. The four is the appointing authority or Okay. agency. Okay. class. I can see that one right there on the first page. step. rate and supervisor authority. Those are the only four that they're recommending that they be removed because they are not used anywhere else within the bylaw. Unknown: Okay. but the other things- wage and salary classification plan town. Human Resources Manager. did you say oh? Department. Department Head. class we there's Oh. it's just not referred to. okay in the class. okay. In the bylaw. the word class does not appear in the classification system. Trudy Reid: That's what they're telling me. Yes. Maryanne Peabody: okay. Paul Morenberg: what was the second one after reporting authority? Trudy Reid: Class. oh. it says appointing authority or employing agency. right. right. which is the first one up there? Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. right. Because sometimes the appointing authority used to be a board. or it was a. you know. a town department that was doing that. And those things don't happen anymore.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Trudy will you repeat what they what. So there's you want. They want the appointing authority and employee agency removed. And then what were the other three? I'm sorry. Unknown: class. Mary Ellen Castagno: class. okay. Trudy Reid: separate. Mary Ellen Castagno: okay. Trudy Reid: and right under that supervisory authority. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. So then what happens to what we've redlined. Trudy Reid: I don't know when you redlined anything had did it go before town meeting? It did Maryanne Peabody: go before town meeting. but they did not take them out. Mary on they appeared. in total when we went to town meeting. The town. I guess it was probably the attorney for the town suggested they be left in. and we thought they should come out. but so this Mary Ellen Castagno: is fine. leave it in. leave them in. I'm just confused. Maryanne Peabody: so let me. let me just the definitions that Unknown: I'm sorry. So once I go through this initial review of everything that they have sent back to me. I will send it back to General code. At some point. our town counsel will. Get it before it goes to town meeting. and town meeting will have the final say in approving all of the recommend. recommended changes that we propose to them. There's going to be some sections of this bylaw that the entire section will be removed and replaced with an updated so some some bylaws only had one or two words to be removed or changed. Some bylaws will be removed completely and updated. So it will. it will be at the at a future town meeting. will have the final approval. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. Maryanne Peabody: asokay. and so we're just talking about removing those four definitions that you identified for yes. okay. Mary Ellen Castagno: and we'll get to see that before Tom meeting. Correct? I just want to be I just want to confirm that. Trudy Reid: maybe not as a I don't know the process. I don't know if they'll be sent back to boards and committees for review. but at some point you will get to see it. whether through the the warrant. or if I. if we need to send them back for any reason. Unknown: and the and the rest of the bylaw was as it was approved at town meeting. Is that the case? Um. yeah. that was the only thing they sent to me on your bylaw. Okay. those four definitions. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. so that's why I'm asking Maryanne. because Tom me. it would be important to see. you know. just exactly what it looks like when it's out and what we're going to see as the final product before we go to Tom meeting. I for my personal opinion. Tom meetings a little too late to see it for the first time. but I understand the timelines. Trudy. I'm just stating. you know. my comfort level. I could certainly bring it back to you with a revised version. so you have the final Maryanne Peabody: thank you. Great. I mean. Trudy Reid: you're counting on my memory to just remember to share it with you when it all comes back. which I'm happy to do. So I'm not saying I don't it's just trying to remember to do that Unknown: the time frame that it comes back to you truly. So then maybe we can. you know. put it in a future meeting so that we see it at that time. and we don't have to keep asking yeah. let me go back sometime tomorrow or next week. early next week. and look at my timeline. schedule that they have given to me. because all of this. I believe. needs to be back to General Code by within the next two or three weeks for their them to start the next process. Okay? And they're going to have this all completed by town meeting this year for the whole town? No. no. no. A future town meeting. I don't 27 or 28 but it will not be this town meeting. Okay? Maryanne Peabody: Thank you. So everyone's in agreement that those definitions come out. Is that okay? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I mean. I think all. I think all definitions could come out. I don't think they really the ones that are still there add much. but. but Mary Ellen Castagno: if they want to leave it. Paul. it must be for a reason. Do you know what I'm saying? Paul Morenberg: No. it's fine. It's fine. Trudy. do we have the option to make our own suggestions? Absolutely. So one thing that you know. I think a couple members. or maybe our whole board. has been concerned about. is Section D. which I think would not change. the personal Board shall receive such reasonable assistance and information as it may require for the discharge of its duties. And that's really ambiguous. and we're not getting the assistance that we've would like. and particularly help with. like. you know. minute taking. So I don't know if that's something that you know could be added. that you know. such assistance you know may include. but it's not necessarily limited to minute taking assistance as needed.
Unknown: So I don't know. if you guys can just put that in writing to me. and I can include that if you can get it to me within the next week or so. I can include that with our when I send everything back. And just as a point of reference for today. I've gotta stop at 420 I have to get back to the Shore for a doctor's appointment. Oh. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: that's fine. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: we could follow up. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. And I think that's a that's a town wide issue too. as well. So I think as far as getting software that actually works and can give us a download to help us in our in our minutes. is is something that we should be able as a town to do. since the software is available out there. we just don't Mary Ellen Castagno: right and have packets ready. And there's a lot of things that fall into that. But Trudy. I wanted to ask you another question. because when we got our package. it was a little confusing. There's a second page to these. to what we were given. and I don't see the second page. I only see it once. I think it was page five in our it was page five. If I think in ourpacket. let me just take a look at mine. My point is is that there were two pages and all we got was like one. We got the original and then we got this redacted one. and then the second page wasn't added. And I just want to make sure that that is included. because that's important Unknown: I don't know what was included in your packet. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. so the second one has nine through E. Unknown: The only thing that I gave to Kate was my .my page is 18 of 170 and it was section four. three. dash. one. definitions. And that's the only thing I gave to Kate. because that's the only thing that they asked me about from your board. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yes. ma'am. but there's two pages that go with that. I'm just wanted to make sure that we have. you know. that we have 9. 10. A. D and E. Trudy Reid: oh. I'm sure it's still there. That's just of that section. That's they only talked about the definition. so the rest of it stays. nothing else. Unknown: Okay. all right. it was Maryanne Peabody: but its the four that you've identified Trudy. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yes. okay. okay. just trying to be due diligence here. Thank you. Paul Morenberg: So quickly. quickly. I apologize if I'm messing this up. but it's Trudy Reid. right? R. e. i. d. yes. I thought that was right. So. and then. who is the vendor who's reviewing that? Who reviewed that? Unknown: It's General Code. and they currently host the e360 .Ecode 360 on the town's website for online bylaws. So every time a bylaw is changed to town meeting and accepted it go before it goes before the AGs office for approval. Once the AG has approved it. then I send all of those changes from town meeting to General Code. they upload it into the section called new laws. and then every six months or so. we go through a partial recodification. and they add those into the online document. Trudy Reid: So right now. if you went to the town's website and you looked up the the the the bylaws. you would see as a column on the left hand side. and it says new laws. and there should be 8 or 9 sitting there. and that is from this last town meeting. And we're about ready to move those into the document. because I have already told them to be to put them into the document. So that's the next step. just on what we did at this past town meeting. So this document. this whole document. goes through review every six to 12 months. But there are bylaws that have just been overlooked for one reason or another. because we've not made changes to those over the years. Paul Morenberg: Thank you.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Anything else before I have to sign off? This was exciting. Trudy Reid: Thank you. It is very exciting for me. I may have to extend my retirement date if it doesn't get before 2028. town meeting. Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. I can arrange for that Trudy. Trudy Reid: Okay. all right. So. yeah. So if you have any questions along the way. if you want me to put anything else that you'd like to have considered. feel free to send me something in writing. So and then I'll keep you guys updated on as we move through the process and when it when they do their next review. if there's any questions or concerns. Mary Ellen Castagno: Thank you very much. Trudy appreciate your time. Trudy Reid: Okay. thanks. You know where to find anything. Thank you.
Mary Ellen Castagno: So. Paul. I'll send you my suggestions. if you don't mind. and then we can. you can. Unknown: yeah. absolutely. Maryanne Peabody: yeah. I got knocked out. Mary Ellen Castagno: Oh. well. we don't want to do that. Marianne. Maryanne Peabody: all right. I'm sorry. Where are you? Go ahead.
Paul Morenberg: Mary Ellen was saying she's going to propose some language to clarify the Mary Ellen Castagno: assistance. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. the assistance. Maryanne Peabody: but that's already in the bylaw. Mary Ellen Castagno: No. we just spoke to her about that. Okay. what did she say . she said to send it along to her. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I mean. it's. it's in the bylaw. if it doesn't say what the assistance is. And I personally feel like that the software is not good enough. I mean. I think I don't see why the town can't provide some assistance. I actually don't. It seems like a perfect part time job for a you know. a person who might be retired or or a stay at home mom who to could get a per diem or. you know. be a contractor and as needed. provide remote note taking. It for various boards and committees of the town. I think the town could afford it. I think would make our job lives easier. I think would make us more productive. Unknown: I agree. I agree in the day of AI. it should be real easy. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I think my perception is. yes. we need help. but I think it's easier to get software that can help every board at a cost of like. $20 Mary Ellen Castagno: a meeting. But Marianne. some boards do have a scribe. See. that's the whole thing. So some boards do. so we have to be all equal. right. yeah. Paul Morenberg: And why? Yeah. why not ask for it and let them say no. I mean. you know. like. it can't hurt to have that resource. And maybe with the software. we'll determine that we won't. we don't need it. or maybe it. or maybe it can be requested as needed. So like. for example. we have. you know. if. if we're comfortable with the software. you know. doing the note taking. maybe. you know. every third or fourth meeting. As Mary Ellen doesn't. you know. take notes. Say we could on on as needed. We could bring in someone so or if I'm scheduled for note taking and I can't do it because of my schedule. it seems like we should ask for it all the time. And then we can. you know. we either. either get it or we don't get it. and then we can take it from there. Unknown: Well. I. I. I. if you guys want to do that. I think want to write something up. I would agree with that. But I also feel like the software is so available that we really just need a concerted effort in town to make sure we have it and then it and it's there for us all. but. but that. you know. you both feel strongly about it. so put together some wording. and we can look at it our next meeting. but we need to get it to Trudy. I mean. that's changing a bylaw that's been that's changing a bylaw that's been voted on at Town meeting. So. I mean. certainly as they're cleaning up things or something. we certainly can ask Mary Ellen Castagno: it to be voted on again. though. Mary Ann. because we didn't see those changes. so it's going to be voted on again. It was already voted as a preliminary. per se. so I right. but she she invited us to do that. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. that's fine. So. so if you can go ahead. I'm sorry I was Paul Morenberg: going to say. even though. like. the software exists and is a good tool. I just want to point out. like this seems to be a constant. like. source of like. every single meeting is the are the last meet minutes available or not? Are we going to do that? You know. will it be the next meeting? Think of the greater like efficiency and bandwidth we would have if we were not charged with taking our own minutes. Maryanne Peabody: I will say that we got into difficulty. In the past. we had someone that were actually worked for the town that took minutes and that person did not take them properly. and then when we updated them. the updates never got there. Now that person is no longer with the town. but was. it was a it got us an open meeting law violation because of our minutes. and it took a year for us to figure it out. So I. you know. I. I do understand that we're still responsible. and if we have something that's it's easier to have software that's recording our voices and able to distinguish us. one from the other. and have one of us look at it. and to have somebody who is new to the process. doesn't understand the personnel issues in town. doesn't understand the things we work on as we do trying to take minutes. It's. it's. it's a difficulty. But you know. I'm. I'm supportive of trying to get it fixed. It's not that I'm not trying to get it fixed. but it's but. But having a human doesn't make it better than having an artificial intelligence software system that records our voices and can differentiate us one from the other. and some of those systems can. yeah. yeah. Paul Morenberg: but I. I respectfully disagree. I don't think having good software to distinguish between our voices is the is the problem. It's a good tool if you get get a better software application. But the challenge is. someone who can distill the minutes because you don't want to transcript someone who could distill the discussion into a brief summary. so that whoever is taking the minutes today me isn't. you know. partially in the meeting and partially on a keyboard for. Focusing on minute taking. and then we all because of that. it's it's sort of essential for us to either listen to the whole meeting again and or review the transcript. It's very time consuming. and a dedicated meeting minute taker with proper training could do a much better job. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. so who is going to Mary Ellen? Did you want to try some wording on that? Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. I'm going to send it to Paul. because Paul's probably better at wordsmith than I am. Unknown: Okay. and then. and then send it to me. and we can get it to. we can get it to truly. yeah. okay. And see. you know. but. but I do. I am sort of aware of the fact that we already voted on that at Town meeting. and the wording is as it is. But if you're going to be doing all of the bylaws. and some of the bylaws have significant rewrites in them. because they haven't done Mary Ellen Castagno: say that it needs it was vague. She did agree that it was vague. Marion. and I think that we were not to interrupt you or not with any any disrespect. I just think and I feel. listen. I'm speaking for myself that we were very rushed. We were very rushed at the end. And again. the things that I saw. the things that I thought went through. I know that what was in the warrant. But again. she said. if there was any clarification to do now is the time to do it? Okay? I think that she's very well aware of what was voted on. what wasn't voted on. and if that was an issue. she would have addressed it. Unknown: Okay. I agree. That's fine. So when do you think you guys could come up with something? Mary Ellen Castagno: I don't know. What do you think. Paul? Paul Morenberg: Tell me something you know by here Monday. and I'll turn it around right away. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. perfect. Thank you. And and then we can send it to her. And then we. if we want to vote on something as a board. we'll vote on it at a later time. Is that okay with you guys. but we just get her something Paul Morenberg: a night? Do we have a nine. eight thing. or is that not happening?
Maryanne Peabody: Um. no. no. not on the eighth. We're going to have a we have a we will have a meeting. because we have a here. a grievance hearing later in the month. Yeah. Okay. so I don't know what date I was kind of hoping. like after the 13th. either the the week of the 13th. What's the what are the last two weeks in September that we have? And we can talk about that when we get to the next meeting. Why don't Paul Morenberg: we? Well. we have a quorum. why don't we get through the rest of the business. and if we have. like. why don't we just try to do it now and just get it done it. I mean. I think we have an extra five or 10 minutes between the three of us. we can easily get done the wording now. yeah. when we get to board member concerns at the end of the meeting. okay. Maryanne Peabody: okay. that makes sense. All right. I just lost my pencil. Here we go. All right. yes. okay. okay. the next agenda item is a discussion and possible vote to approve the personnel board annual report. if available. And I sent out my first draft to you guys. I rethought some of it as well. but did you guys have a chance to look at it. and can I have some feedback from you both? Paul Morenberg: I read it. and I think it's perfect as is. and I would approve it. Okay. Unknown: I second that okay. The only thing I thought we should add was on the wage and salary survey and job classification study. We did the request for proposal last year. but I think we want to put a statement that this study will begin and will continue into the coming year. so that the town is aware that it is going to be ongoing. and Kate is going to give us an update on where it is and where they are now. So that's the only thing I would like to add to it. If that's okay with you guys. Sure. Sure. Okay. Thank you. And let's since you i with that change. I will change it and then send it into I think it's Jailyn Bratica needs it by the end of the month. Can I have a vote to approve the 2025. annual report of the Wayland Mary Ellen Castagno: so moved Unknown: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Paul and so roll call vote. because we're on Zoom. Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen Castagno: yes. yes. Unknown: Paul. Paul Morenberg: yes. Maryanne Peabody: Maryanne. yes. Thank you. The next item is the human. Paul Morenberg: I'm sorry. Marianne. just just to clarify. because I might have been a little unclear. I'm going to say the motion was to approve the minutes as revised. By Maryanne is that fair? Unknown: The report? Mary Ellen Castagno: The report? Yeah. Paul Morenberg: yes. Okay. so we're. we're so you have that. you are the you can revise it as scribe and submit it. Unknown: Okay. and I'll send you a copy. just so you see it's only going to be that one change I think. okay. okay. The next item is Human Resources directors report with us having questions and comments. the update on classification and compensation study. And I think Kate's going to give us an update. and hopefully they've been busy. I think they've been meeting. Go ahead. Kate yeah. we've been very busy. The consultant has. so we finished all of our job analysis questionnaire. all all of our employees involved in this study completed their questionnaires. They were all interviewed or interviewed in groups. All of that was completed. I believe. back in end of July. and then the consultant has actually developed a first draft of a classification system to. you know. to sort of map out based on the JAQ the results of those. those questionnaires. where all of the our positions fall. So now we're in the in the part of the process where we're sort of fine tuning it to make sure that. you know. looking at job descriptions again. I'm going to be reaching out to department heads to make sure that they they feel they're classified appropriately. and that the changes to job descriptions are accurate. Katherine Ryan: So how it worked is the employee was able to provide changes or propose changes to their job description. and then the department head or their supervisor would review and either make comments or approve. you know. basically sign off on them. So there's been some comment back and forth. So we're we're just mapping out that that process we are still on track to be done final report by the end of October. So they have sent out the salary survey. The other piece of this is a salary survey. They have heard back. They've gotten data from almost every town. I believe. There were a couple that we didn't hear back from. which is. you know. it happens. that's understandable. so they're working on that piece now. okay. and that's. that's where we're at with that. Unknown: And so the supervisors of each department have seen the job descriptions for all of the positions that exist within their department.? Katherine Ryan: yanyes. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: okay. yep. and they had to sign off on them to say they agreed or disagreed in those conversation. Katherine Ryan: Yes. correct. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. any big surprises on any big changes that you see.
Unknown: not not yet. You know. there are a few positions that I think we're we have a few positions. both in the Council on Aging and in our Youth Services department. that require a licensed social worker. and so those are a little harder to place. so I think that needs some fine tuning. And then our school nurses. our community health nurses. our town employees. rather than school department employees. So we actually had to reach out to some school departments for salary data on those. and we did receive some salary data back on that. But I think those are. those are some areas that are like. I said. need. need some adjustment and fine tuning. Yeah. I think probably we're kind of aware of those at any rate. did you have a committee. or was it each department? Each the consultant worked with each classification of employee? Well. they they worked with each position so and the job analysis questionnaire is the JAQs went out to each individual in each position. We asked them to fill that out with the very they have five factors that they then grade or score. I should say. And then the employee had an opportunity to propose changes to the job description. Those all then went to the department head or supervisor to review. and they made comments. and then they came back to us. and then to the consultant. so they've looked at every single job and job description at this point. which is quite a few.
Maryanne Peabody: any questions from the board members. Unknown: I was just curious if anybody from the on any of the boards were able to come and observe. you know. when they were speaking to the different i. Uh. what do you call it? Departments? I think that that would be interesting. just to have a an idea of what the questions were and how they came upon. salaries that they did. I hope I'm making sense. I know that Maryanne's lived it. I haven't lived it.
So. I mean. at this point. the consultant is is working primarily through me. They have interviewed almost all of our employees who submitted JAQs. the the questionnaires. which include our department heads. so they they had an opportunity to discuss their own staff and positions as well. We haven't had a board involved in that process yet. but I it is my goal. and I think our we've. we've actually. I. you know. made it clear to our consultant that we would like them to present either preliminary or final findings to the Personnel Board. possibly the Select Board. It depends. I don't know who. who would like to be involved. but I. you know. we have to limit it. We can't do everyone. But I was thinking Personnel board and Select board. So yeah.
Mary Ellen Castagno: that would be wonderful. Kate. Maryanne Peabody: and when? When would you anticipate that? Kate. Katherine Ryan: well. we. like I said. we're on track to have a final report by the end of October. So. okay. I you know. I would guess early November. Okay. it's my my best guess. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. that sounds good. yeah. And so the salary survey. they're just waiting now for the information to come back from towns. and then they'll run it through their data. and they'll run the data that they got. Katherine Ryan: Yeah. they at this point. they've received all the data that I think that we're going to. that we're going to receive. and there were just a few towns. I think we sent it out to 15 or 16 towns. I can't remember the entire list. and there were a handful that didn't respond. which we expected. but they are actively working on the salary survey piece now. Unknown: Alright. that sounds good. Thank you. because I know there's some concern in. I know that the Finance Committee is concerned too. and we have to think through what the town how the town is going to roll out the data if there are changes. and which are the ones that we need to address first. And. okay. that sounds that sounds reasonable. Okay. And anyone else have any other questions? Paul. do you have any questions? No. okay. great. Okay. so there the minutes will be. I will have the others at our next meeting. As long as I have. I'm do them. which I think I will. depending on when we schedule our next meeting. The next item was personnel. board members. reports and concerns. Anyone have concerns. Paul Morenberg: You want to discuss the setting a regular meeting schedule or. Maryanne Peabody: Yes. I'm sorry I skipped that. That was the next agenda item. Yes. it we've been kind of just going along and scheduling it at the end of each meeting. But. you know. Kate and I were talking. it would be much simpler if we all knew it was going to be the first Monday of the of them every month. or the third Tuesday of the month. I don't really have. you know. I only have. like. one date that I can't do in the month. But if we could all agree on a date. It seems that we could plan better that way. If there are things that come up. that are emergencies that require a vote. or if we have something from like a union grievance. or something like that comes up. then we would call an extra meeting. but it will be easier than. you know. having to write to each other. you know. to have Kate send out something and wait for everybody to come back with a date and then get it back to everyone. If we just knew that it was going to be a standard set meeting time. What do you guys think? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I would like that. I mean. Mondays and Tuesdays tend to be a little harder for me. So. and today is a Wednesday. So what about the first or second Wednesday of the month? Does that anybody have a conflict with that? And Kate. do you have a conflict with that? Unknown: I have a regularly scheduled meeting on the second Wednesday of every month. So I couldn't. I. unfortunately. couldn't do that. but I could do the first that would. that would work and then would we be able to get a room? That's the other thing. Katherine Ryan: Yeah. that's. that's not an issue. I think. I think we'll be fine there. Maryanne Peabody: and that's if we stick with our four o'clock time. right? Okay. so Paul Morenberg: I do the first Wednesday. I mean. obviously. Yeah. we What about. look to you know. conflicts that people have. but what a Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen Castagno: I'm fine with the first the October 1 is fine. My my calendar is clear. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I'm fine with the first Wednesday. That's no problem for me. We could just if. if that's a good date. Kate. we can just. Paul Morenberg: I will. I'm going to text or email Jill. Unknown: although it's Yom. Yom Kippur this year. Paul. oh. Paul Morenberg: okay. well. I mean subject to it could still be that. and then subject to changing. yeah. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: okay. okay. yes. yes. But October is October one is Yom Kippur. beginning at sundown. Well. we'll have to get it done quick.
Paul Morenberg: Well. actually. that you know what? That's true. though. That shouldn't be a problem if it's if the meeting is. you know. Maryanne Peabody: people aren't going some place for dinner or something on the road. right? But. yeah. we'll. we'll ask if none of us have conflicts. I guess that's okay. It's because it is before sundown. Uh. well. not in the middle of winter. Oh. yeah. it's only October. We have time on October. right? What time will? Mary Ellen Castagno: I think we can do it? We just have to talk fast. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. And then I would like to schedule the next meeting date. but we want to handle the the wording. Well. we can Mary Ellen Castagno: do that and send it to you. I don't know. Do we have time now. you said this? This is going to be nice. We do. I think Paul Morenberg: it'll take five minutes. Okay. Maryanne Peabody: alright. What does it say? As it is. Paul in the bylaw. it Paul Morenberg: says in section D. the Personnel Board shall receive such reasonable assistance and information as it may require for the discharge of its duties. And I would suggest you just sort of you add a second sentence and say reasonable assistance may include assistance in Minute taking by a town employee or consultant as needed or something.
Maryanne Peabody: And you was limited to minute taking no. we said. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I mean. it could. I mean. I'm trying to think where else we could. I mean. you know. we we do. I mean. everything else we do. we need to do ourselves. We need to read things and research them. I don't. I don't know Mary Ellen Castagno: what I need. the packet. Paul. I need the written packet in advance. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I think that. and I think that. I think you I think that's already happens. I mean. maybe that could be available earlier. if that's something you need earlier. but I'm not sure we need to specify that. Yeah. worked Mary Ellen Castagno: out. but okay. I just wanted to put it out there because.
Unknown: um. Paul Morenberg: I mean. you know. I mean. it could say. I mean. it could also include. could all. I mean. you could put photocopying and transmission of documents. but. I mean. I don't think. I think that's already happening. So. okay.
Maryanne Peabody: so you want to say reasonable assistance man Paul Morenberg: may include. we may include the minute taking. you say. services of a of a town employee or consultant to provide minute taking as needed. something like that. I mean. I can tweak that a little bit. but Maryanne Peabody: do would you want to include software there or not? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. we could just so reasonable assistance.
Stronger. but I think may would be more palatable. May include Maryanne Peabody: minute taking assistance by a tom. Include
include minute Paul Morenberg: taking may include
Unknown: distance Paul Morenberg: with Minute. Taking by a town employee or consultant. town employee or consultant and as well Unknown: as as needed.
Paul Morenberg: software. software. or applications. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. because I think that's changing so fast that that's by the time this gets written that's really going to be the norm. right? So reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee. you want to say. contractor or consultant. What do you want to call Paul Morenberg: it? I said minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant as well as um. Mary Ellen Castagno: Availability of the availability. Paul Morenberg: as well as the purchase or licensing needed of needed. needed software or applications. Maryanne Peabody: yeah. or even if we just said. or as well as Paul Morenberg: I as Maryanne Peabody: well as taking software applications. because I'm not sure Paul Morenberg: I would limit it to. what if. what if we needed an application to do something. like. to help with something else. like. you know. classification stuff or something. I mean. I won't necessarily limit. I mean. that's. I think that's the need we anticipate now. but there could be other needs as well as
as well as access to software. Or applications for minute taking or other you
Mary Ellen Castagno: don't want to take this offline. Paul. it's Paul Morenberg: no. I don't think so. I mean. I don't think it's that complicated. I just. I'd rather not if we take it offline and we have. then we have a problem. how to approve it. okay. all right. How
about okay? How about this? Reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant. as well as access to software applications. minute taking or other necessary functions Maryanne Peabody: as access what is going on here. I'm sorry.
Paul Morenberg: Reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant. as well as access to software or applications for minute taking or other necessary functions do
I mean. we could we could also even say. like. could we ever. could we ever need. like. access to databases or research. We could say. also access to.
Maryanne Peabody: well. I think. I think. I think if you just say access to software. applications for minute taking and other necessary functions. it would be things that we would need that will be under our purview. that we would and other boards would also probably want the same kind of thing. If they had something that they had to do. they would want access to it. I I think that kind of covers it as well as access to software. for applications. for minute taking or other necessary functions. Paul Morenberg: Okay. is that. Mary Ann. does that work for you? Mary Ellen Castagno: It works for me. It's fine. I'll just have to work with Mary Ann. because I don't get my pack at 72 hours before the meeting. and sometimes it's a back and forth. And if they're closed on Friday. it's a struggle. and I do need them in advance. but you don't have to put that in there. I'm just making it for the record. Paul Morenberg: I'm sure that. I'm sure that that can happen. And I'm Yeah. yeah. Mary Ellen Castagno: But that can go into the minutes. Paul. that's good enough. If it's. you know. if it's you know. for the minutes. so that it is memorialized. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I'll put a note about that. because I didn't Mary Ellen Castagno: have to chase them. I should just get them automatically. But thank you. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. no. and I'm sure that's the intent. And occasionally there might be a glitch. but I have no doubt that's the that's the. And usual practice. Maryanne Peabody: and I think Kate and I work on the packet several weeks in advance. so we're hoping to be able to get it so that. so that it's available when Mary Ellen needs it. The problem usually occurs. I would say. during the summer. on Fridays. but I'm not sure that that's a problem when the town building is closed and we've got a tight time frame. But most of the time. I think you get it in. I get Mary Ellen Castagno: it. I have to kind of remind and chase. And in the past. it had been automatically done for me 72 hours in advance. and I could just go pick it up. So if I forget. or. you know. it's a Friday. and I'm not. you know. aware that they closed on Friday. That's when the you know. it causes an issue for me. I mean. Paul Morenberg: there can be. you know. I mean. there can be situations where things you know are still being. you know. developed a day or two before the meeting. So I'd hate to have a time standard. I'm sure that's the goal Mary Ellen Castagno: of the No no. I'm speaking out loud. I'm speaking out loud because Mary Ann. as she said. she has the agenda. She meets with her. you know. at least a week or so in advance. So. you know. just trying to assist with the process Maryanne Peabody: at all now. And I think for most boards. as long as we have an early meet. early in the week meeting. as long as people have the packet to read over the weekend. most boards. that's when they do it. But you know. sometimes. sometimes it's not so the fact that we've been meeting on Mondays usually gives us the weekend to read it. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yeah. so that's 72 hours before Marianne. but if see what I'm saying. But if it's a Wednesday. if it's a Wednesday. having it on Friday helps a lot. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I could also. you know. I mean. I don't know where you are. but we're all on Wayland. so. I mean. it's. I'm also more than happy to print Mary Ellen Castagno: it. Paul. you're not doing it. Thank you very much. I'm saying. I'm Paul Morenberg: saying. if there's a digital copy. on occasion. I'm more than happy to drop it off at your mailbox or whatever. or. I'm sure Mary Ann could do that. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I've offered to something. no.
Mary Ellen Castagno: but I appreciate the offer. but no. thank you. It can be done. And then I don't want to have to rely on somebody dropping it off. or remembering to drop it off. or that sort of thing. I think the way it is is fine. That's the way it was set up. It just needs to get back to a a regular routine of being done. you know. a regular cycle of being done without having to Paul Morenberg: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure it will be so Okay. Thank you. Maryanne Peabody: Absolutely okay. And so Paul. I can read what I have here. but. but you're going to put it in the minutes. the the addition that we want to get to Trudy. and then I can send it to her. Is it reasonable? Paul Morenberg: I read it twice. and I think so I could just do a motion to I'll do that. and I'll just send you an email. So I'm going to. I move to that the Personnel Board approve the following revision to the chapter 43 minutes to say in section D after the first sentence that reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employer consultant. as well as access To software applications for minute taking or other necessary functions. Maryanne Peabody: Yes. that's right. yes. Thank you. Perfect. All Paul Morenberg: right. Second. second. Maryanne Peabody: okay. our Roll Call. Vote. Paul. yes. yes. Mary Ellen. yes. Ma'am. Mary Ann. yes. Paul Morenberg: Okay. great. We just got some business done efficiently. okay. and then you'll send it to me. Maryanne Peabody: and that'll be fine. great. Okay. um. topics not reasonably anticipated. 48 hours in advance. if
Paul Morenberg: any. Maryanne Peabody: none by me. Mary Ellen. no next meeting date. We do have a union grievance to hear. and we need to get information. more information from the union. and we also need to schedule it with them. Kate. what do you think is a reasonable a reasonable time for that? Katherine Ryan: I believe we had discussed the week of September. 15. so the 16th or 17th? I can't remember if everyone was available at that that date. those dates. Mary Ellen Castagno: Let me look. Are you thinking the 15th? The 16th of the 17th? Katherine Ryan: Yes. of September. Mary Ellen Castagno: Let me look. I Unknown: And Maryanne Peabody: it probably we won't have much. I don't Maybe we'll have some policies to go over. but it's really it will take. probably. that will take a large portion of the meeting. and if we can have any personnel policies that we need to do. And I'll have the minutes at least from May. And Did. did you all do the June ones Kate. ? Katherine Ryan: I don't remember. Maryanne Peabody: I can I took hers for her. she was going to do May. And I think she took June with your mind. And then Paul is doing this one. Mary Ellen Castagno: So. so the 17th. at four o'clock will work for me. That's a Wednesday. If that works for others. Unknown: Paul. how about you? Paul Morenberg: I could do that.Yeah. I Maryanne Peabody: can do that as well. Kate. if that works for the Unknown: Union. I will reach out to them tonight. and I'll make sure that they can do that. Okay? And then we we would need more information from them than what they originally sent. but that will be fine Mary Ellen Castagno: I don't think we got anything. I think you were the only one Maryanne Peabody: that knew. yeah. yeah. Well. sometimes when they send me the stuff. they send me a lot of information. and sometimes they send me not a lot of information. but I do not have agreements. but we need more information. Okay. yeah. great. All right. Mary Ellen Castagno: Um. so we have that. and we also have October 1. correct? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. okay. while everybody is here. would. would. could we start a little earlier. like 3pm just because of the holiday? Sure. usually it'll be 4pm or four for October 1. Is that okay with UK? Mary Ellen Castagno: Because we can do it. sure. Okay. so. 3pm on October 1. great. perfect. Okay. I will do that. Paul Morenberg: and I'll email Jill. Okay.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. this was a very productive meeting. I have to say. yes. Well. it was. Maryanne Peabody: it was a short one. We just had two items that we needed to do by the end of December. Um. so then I would say. if Is there anything else. Kate. that you would want to add. or Katherine Ryan: no. I'm I'm good. Unknown: Kate. when does I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. but when do they go back to regular hours at the town hall. Katherine Ryan: We it's this week. Okay. yes. okay. so we'll be in on Friday of this week. okay? Maryanne Peabody: And then there being no further business. May I have a motion to adjourn. So move okay. okay. so roll call vote. Mary Ellen. yes. Paul. Paul Morenberg: yes. Maryanne Peabody: Mary Ann. yes. and we are adjourning at 4:58pm.
by my clock. Anyways. hook.
Paul Morenberg: And if I can interject. my recollection is. when we looked at this. our board felt the definition should be removed. I mean. this is. this was definitely discussed. I mean it. you know. because I don't. I don't think they're either all used or certainly not consistently used in other parts of our bylaw. I'm sorry. warrants much discussion. but I think the definition should be removed as well. Mary Ellen Castagno: But we had them removed. They were already moved. They were already redlined. Maryanne Peabody: Paul. so no. they didn't. they didn't get removed. right? Oh. we had suggested they be removed. but they didn't get removed. So Trudy. are you saying they're they're suggesting some of them be removed. or all of them? Trudy Reid: No. just four of them. The four is the appointing authority or Okay. agency. Okay. class. I can see that one right there on the first page. step. rate and supervisor authority. Those are the only four that they're recommending that they be removed because they are not used anywhere else within the bylaw. Unknown: Okay. but the other things- wage and salary classification plan town. Human Resources Manager. did you say oh? Department. Department Head. class we there's Oh. it's just not referred to. okay in the class. okay. In the bylaw. the word class does not appear in the classification system. Trudy Reid: That's what they're telling me. Yes. Maryanne Peabody: okay. Paul Morenberg: what was the second one after reporting authority? Trudy Reid: Class. oh. it says appointing authority or employing agency. right. right. which is the first one up there? Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. right. Because sometimes the appointing authority used to be a board. or it was a. you know. a town department that was doing that. And those things don't happen anymore.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Trudy will you repeat what they what. So there's you want. They want the appointing authority and employee agency removed. And then what were the other three? I'm sorry. Unknown: class. Mary Ellen Castagno: class. okay. Trudy Reid: separate. Mary Ellen Castagno: okay. Trudy Reid: and right under that supervisory authority. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. So then what happens to what we've redlined. Trudy Reid: I don't know when you redlined anything had did it go before town meeting? It did Maryanne Peabody: go before town meeting. but they did not take them out. Mary on they appeared. in total when we went to town meeting. The town. I guess it was probably the attorney for the town suggested they be left in. and we thought they should come out. but so this Mary Ellen Castagno: is fine. leave it in. leave them in. I'm just confused. Maryanne Peabody: so let me. let me just the definitions that Unknown: I'm sorry. So once I go through this initial review of everything that they have sent back to me. I will send it back to General code. At some point. our town counsel will. Get it before it goes to town meeting. and town meeting will have the final say in approving all of the recommend. recommended changes that we propose to them. There's going to be some sections of this bylaw that the entire section will be removed and replaced with an updated so some some bylaws only had one or two words to be removed or changed. Some bylaws will be removed completely and updated. So it will. it will be at the at a future town meeting. will have the final approval. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. Maryanne Peabody: asokay. and so we're just talking about removing those four definitions that you identified for yes. okay. Mary Ellen Castagno: and we'll get to see that before Tom meeting. Correct? I just want to be I just want to confirm that. Trudy Reid: maybe not as a I don't know the process. I don't know if they'll be sent back to boards and committees for review. but at some point you will get to see it. whether through the the warrant. or if I. if we need to send them back for any reason. Unknown: and the and the rest of the bylaw was as it was approved at town meeting. Is that the case? Um. yeah. that was the only thing they sent to me on your bylaw. Okay. those four definitions. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. so that's why I'm asking Maryanne. because Tom me. it would be important to see. you know. just exactly what it looks like when it's out and what we're going to see as the final product before we go to Tom meeting. I for my personal opinion. Tom meetings a little too late to see it for the first time. but I understand the timelines. Trudy. I'm just stating. you know. my comfort level. I could certainly bring it back to you with a revised version. so you have the final Maryanne Peabody: thank you. Great. I mean. Trudy Reid: you're counting on my memory to just remember to share it with you when it all comes back. which I'm happy to do. So I'm not saying I don't it's just trying to remember to do that Unknown: the time frame that it comes back to you truly. So then maybe we can. you know. put it in a future meeting so that we see it at that time. and we don't have to keep asking yeah. let me go back sometime tomorrow or next week. early next week. and look at my timeline. schedule that they have given to me. because all of this. I believe. needs to be back to General Code by within the next two or three weeks for their them to start the next process. Okay? And they're going to have this all completed by town meeting this year for the whole town? No. no. no. A future town meeting. I don't 27 or 28 but it will not be this town meeting. Okay? Maryanne Peabody: Thank you. So everyone's in agreement that those definitions come out. Is that okay? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I mean. I think all. I think all definitions could come out. I don't think they really the ones that are still there add much. but. but Mary Ellen Castagno: if they want to leave it. Paul. it must be for a reason. Do you know what I'm saying? Paul Morenberg: No. it's fine. It's fine. Trudy. do we have the option to make our own suggestions? Absolutely. So one thing that you know. I think a couple members. or maybe our whole board. has been concerned about. is Section D. which I think would not change. the personal Board shall receive such reasonable assistance and information as it may require for the discharge of its duties. And that's really ambiguous. and we're not getting the assistance that we've would like. and particularly help with. like. you know. minute taking. So I don't know if that's something that you know could be added. that you know. such assistance you know may include. but it's not necessarily limited to minute taking assistance as needed.
Unknown: So I don't know. if you guys can just put that in writing to me. and I can include that if you can get it to me within the next week or so. I can include that with our when I send everything back. And just as a point of reference for today. I've gotta stop at 420 I have to get back to the Shore for a doctor's appointment. Oh. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: that's fine. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: we could follow up. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. And I think that's a that's a town wide issue too. as well. So I think as far as getting software that actually works and can give us a download to help us in our in our minutes. is is something that we should be able as a town to do. since the software is available out there. we just don't Mary Ellen Castagno: right and have packets ready. And there's a lot of things that fall into that. But Trudy. I wanted to ask you another question. because when we got our package. it was a little confusing. There's a second page to these. to what we were given. and I don't see the second page. I only see it once. I think it was page five in our it was page five. If I think in ourpacket. let me just take a look at mine. My point is is that there were two pages and all we got was like one. We got the original and then we got this redacted one. and then the second page wasn't added. And I just want to make sure that that is included. because that's important Unknown: I don't know what was included in your packet. Mary Ellen Castagno: Okay. so the second one has nine through E. Unknown: The only thing that I gave to Kate was my .my page is 18 of 170 and it was section four. three. dash. one. definitions. And that's the only thing I gave to Kate. because that's the only thing that they asked me about from your board. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yes. ma'am. but there's two pages that go with that. I'm just wanted to make sure that we have. you know. that we have 9. 10. A. D and E. Trudy Reid: oh. I'm sure it's still there. That's just of that section. That's they only talked about the definition. so the rest of it stays. nothing else. Unknown: Okay. all right. it was Maryanne Peabody: but its the four that you've identified Trudy. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yes. okay. okay. just trying to be due diligence here. Thank you. Paul Morenberg: So quickly. quickly. I apologize if I'm messing this up. but it's Trudy Reid. right? R. e. i. d. yes. I thought that was right. So. and then. who is the vendor who's reviewing that? Who reviewed that? Unknown: It's General Code. and they currently host the e360 .Ecode 360 on the town's website for online bylaws. So every time a bylaw is changed to town meeting and accepted it go before it goes before the AGs office for approval. Once the AG has approved it. then I send all of those changes from town meeting to General Code. they upload it into the section called new laws. and then every six months or so. we go through a partial recodification. and they add those into the online document. Trudy Reid: So right now. if you went to the town's website and you looked up the the the the bylaws. you would see as a column on the left hand side. and it says new laws. and there should be 8 or 9 sitting there. and that is from this last town meeting. And we're about ready to move those into the document. because I have already told them to be to put them into the document. So that's the next step. just on what we did at this past town meeting. So this document. this whole document. goes through review every six to 12 months. But there are bylaws that have just been overlooked for one reason or another. because we've not made changes to those over the years. Paul Morenberg: Thank you.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Anything else before I have to sign off? This was exciting. Trudy Reid: Thank you. It is very exciting for me. I may have to extend my retirement date if it doesn't get before 2028. town meeting. Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. I can arrange for that Trudy. Trudy Reid: Okay. all right. So. yeah. So if you have any questions along the way. if you want me to put anything else that you'd like to have considered. feel free to send me something in writing. So and then I'll keep you guys updated on as we move through the process and when it when they do their next review. if there's any questions or concerns. Mary Ellen Castagno: Thank you very much. Trudy appreciate your time. Trudy Reid: Okay. thanks. You know where to find anything. Thank you.
Mary Ellen Castagno: So. Paul. I'll send you my suggestions. if you don't mind. and then we can. you can. Unknown: yeah. absolutely. Maryanne Peabody: yeah. I got knocked out. Mary Ellen Castagno: Oh. well. we don't want to do that. Marianne. Maryanne Peabody: all right. I'm sorry. Where are you? Go ahead.
Paul Morenberg: Mary Ellen was saying she's going to propose some language to clarify the Mary Ellen Castagno: assistance. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. the assistance. Maryanne Peabody: but that's already in the bylaw. Mary Ellen Castagno: No. we just spoke to her about that. Okay. what did she say . she said to send it along to her. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I mean. it's. it's in the bylaw. if it doesn't say what the assistance is. And I personally feel like that the software is not good enough. I mean. I think I don't see why the town can't provide some assistance. I actually don't. It seems like a perfect part time job for a you know. a person who might be retired or or a stay at home mom who to could get a per diem or. you know. be a contractor and as needed. provide remote note taking. It for various boards and committees of the town. I think the town could afford it. I think would make our job lives easier. I think would make us more productive. Unknown: I agree. I agree in the day of AI. it should be real easy. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I think my perception is. yes. we need help. but I think it's easier to get software that can help every board at a cost of like. $20 Mary Ellen Castagno: a meeting. But Marianne. some boards do have a scribe. See. that's the whole thing. So some boards do. so we have to be all equal. right. yeah. Paul Morenberg: And why? Yeah. why not ask for it and let them say no. I mean. you know. like. it can't hurt to have that resource. And maybe with the software. we'll determine that we won't. we don't need it. or maybe it. or maybe it can be requested as needed. So like. for example. we have. you know. if. if we're comfortable with the software. you know. doing the note taking. maybe. you know. every third or fourth meeting. As Mary Ellen doesn't. you know. take notes. Say we could on on as needed. We could bring in someone so or if I'm scheduled for note taking and I can't do it because of my schedule. it seems like we should ask for it all the time. And then we can. you know. we either. either get it or we don't get it. and then we can take it from there. Unknown: Well. I. I. I. if you guys want to do that. I think want to write something up. I would agree with that. But I also feel like the software is so available that we really just need a concerted effort in town to make sure we have it and then it and it's there for us all. but. but that. you know. you both feel strongly about it. so put together some wording. and we can look at it our next meeting. but we need to get it to Trudy. I mean. that's changing a bylaw that's been that's changing a bylaw that's been voted on at Town meeting. So. I mean. certainly as they're cleaning up things or something. we certainly can ask Mary Ellen Castagno: it to be voted on again. though. Mary Ann. because we didn't see those changes. so it's going to be voted on again. It was already voted as a preliminary. per se. so I right. but she she invited us to do that. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. that's fine. So. so if you can go ahead. I'm sorry I was Paul Morenberg: going to say. even though. like. the software exists and is a good tool. I just want to point out. like this seems to be a constant. like. source of like. every single meeting is the are the last meet minutes available or not? Are we going to do that? You know. will it be the next meeting? Think of the greater like efficiency and bandwidth we would have if we were not charged with taking our own minutes. Maryanne Peabody: I will say that we got into difficulty. In the past. we had someone that were actually worked for the town that took minutes and that person did not take them properly. and then when we updated them. the updates never got there. Now that person is no longer with the town. but was. it was a it got us an open meeting law violation because of our minutes. and it took a year for us to figure it out. So I. you know. I. I do understand that we're still responsible. and if we have something that's it's easier to have software that's recording our voices and able to distinguish us. one from the other. and have one of us look at it. and to have somebody who is new to the process. doesn't understand the personnel issues in town. doesn't understand the things we work on as we do trying to take minutes. It's. it's. it's a difficulty. But you know. I'm. I'm supportive of trying to get it fixed. It's not that I'm not trying to get it fixed. but it's but. But having a human doesn't make it better than having an artificial intelligence software system that records our voices and can differentiate us one from the other. and some of those systems can. yeah. yeah. Paul Morenberg: but I. I respectfully disagree. I don't think having good software to distinguish between our voices is the is the problem. It's a good tool if you get get a better software application. But the challenge is. someone who can distill the minutes because you don't want to transcript someone who could distill the discussion into a brief summary. so that whoever is taking the minutes today me isn't. you know. partially in the meeting and partially on a keyboard for. Focusing on minute taking. and then we all because of that. it's it's sort of essential for us to either listen to the whole meeting again and or review the transcript. It's very time consuming. and a dedicated meeting minute taker with proper training could do a much better job. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. so who is going to Mary Ellen? Did you want to try some wording on that? Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. I'm going to send it to Paul. because Paul's probably better at wordsmith than I am. Unknown: Okay. and then. and then send it to me. and we can get it to. we can get it to truly. yeah. okay. And see. you know. but. but I do. I am sort of aware of the fact that we already voted on that at Town meeting. and the wording is as it is. But if you're going to be doing all of the bylaws. and some of the bylaws have significant rewrites in them. because they haven't done Mary Ellen Castagno: say that it needs it was vague. She did agree that it was vague. Marion. and I think that we were not to interrupt you or not with any any disrespect. I just think and I feel. listen. I'm speaking for myself that we were very rushed. We were very rushed at the end. And again. the things that I saw. the things that I thought went through. I know that what was in the warrant. But again. she said. if there was any clarification to do now is the time to do it? Okay? I think that she's very well aware of what was voted on. what wasn't voted on. and if that was an issue. she would have addressed it. Unknown: Okay. I agree. That's fine. So when do you think you guys could come up with something? Mary Ellen Castagno: I don't know. What do you think. Paul? Paul Morenberg: Tell me something you know by here Monday. and I'll turn it around right away. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. perfect. Thank you. And and then we can send it to her. And then we. if we want to vote on something as a board. we'll vote on it at a later time. Is that okay with you guys. but we just get her something Paul Morenberg: a night? Do we have a nine. eight thing. or is that not happening?
Maryanne Peabody: Um. no. no. not on the eighth. We're going to have a we have a we will have a meeting. because we have a here. a grievance hearing later in the month. Yeah. Okay. so I don't know what date I was kind of hoping. like after the 13th. either the the week of the 13th. What's the what are the last two weeks in September that we have? And we can talk about that when we get to the next meeting. Why don't Paul Morenberg: we? Well. we have a quorum. why don't we get through the rest of the business. and if we have. like. why don't we just try to do it now and just get it done it. I mean. I think we have an extra five or 10 minutes between the three of us. we can easily get done the wording now. yeah. when we get to board member concerns at the end of the meeting. okay. Maryanne Peabody: okay. that makes sense. All right. I just lost my pencil. Here we go. All right. yes. okay. okay. the next agenda item is a discussion and possible vote to approve the personnel board annual report. if available. And I sent out my first draft to you guys. I rethought some of it as well. but did you guys have a chance to look at it. and can I have some feedback from you both? Paul Morenberg: I read it. and I think it's perfect as is. and I would approve it. Okay. Unknown: I second that okay. The only thing I thought we should add was on the wage and salary survey and job classification study. We did the request for proposal last year. but I think we want to put a statement that this study will begin and will continue into the coming year. so that the town is aware that it is going to be ongoing. and Kate is going to give us an update on where it is and where they are now. So that's the only thing I would like to add to it. If that's okay with you guys. Sure. Sure. Okay. Thank you. And let's since you i with that change. I will change it and then send it into I think it's Jailyn Bratica needs it by the end of the month. Can I have a vote to approve the 2025. annual report of the Wayland Mary Ellen Castagno: so moved Unknown: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Paul and so roll call vote. because we're on Zoom. Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen Castagno: yes. yes. Unknown: Paul. Paul Morenberg: yes. Maryanne Peabody: Maryanne. yes. Thank you. The next item is the human. Paul Morenberg: I'm sorry. Marianne. just just to clarify. because I might have been a little unclear. I'm going to say the motion was to approve the minutes as revised. By Maryanne is that fair? Unknown: The report? Mary Ellen Castagno: The report? Yeah. Paul Morenberg: yes. Okay. so we're. we're so you have that. you are the you can revise it as scribe and submit it. Unknown: Okay. and I'll send you a copy. just so you see it's only going to be that one change I think. okay. okay. The next item is Human Resources directors report with us having questions and comments. the update on classification and compensation study. And I think Kate's going to give us an update. and hopefully they've been busy. I think they've been meeting. Go ahead. Kate yeah. we've been very busy. The consultant has. so we finished all of our job analysis questionnaire. all all of our employees involved in this study completed their questionnaires. They were all interviewed or interviewed in groups. All of that was completed. I believe. back in end of July. and then the consultant has actually developed a first draft of a classification system to. you know. to sort of map out based on the JAQ the results of those. those questionnaires. where all of the our positions fall. So now we're in the in the part of the process where we're sort of fine tuning it to make sure that. you know. looking at job descriptions again. I'm going to be reaching out to department heads to make sure that they they feel they're classified appropriately. and that the changes to job descriptions are accurate. Katherine Ryan: So how it worked is the employee was able to provide changes or propose changes to their job description. and then the department head or their supervisor would review and either make comments or approve. you know. basically sign off on them. So there's been some comment back and forth. So we're we're just mapping out that that process we are still on track to be done final report by the end of October. So they have sent out the salary survey. The other piece of this is a salary survey. They have heard back. They've gotten data from almost every town. I believe. There were a couple that we didn't hear back from. which is. you know. it happens. that's understandable. so they're working on that piece now. okay. and that's. that's where we're at with that. Unknown: And so the supervisors of each department have seen the job descriptions for all of the positions that exist within their department.? Katherine Ryan: yanyes. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: okay. yep. and they had to sign off on them to say they agreed or disagreed in those conversation. Katherine Ryan: Yes. correct. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. any big surprises on any big changes that you see.
Unknown: not not yet. You know. there are a few positions that I think we're we have a few positions. both in the Council on Aging and in our Youth Services department. that require a licensed social worker. and so those are a little harder to place. so I think that needs some fine tuning. And then our school nurses. our community health nurses. our town employees. rather than school department employees. So we actually had to reach out to some school departments for salary data on those. and we did receive some salary data back on that. But I think those are. those are some areas that are like. I said. need. need some adjustment and fine tuning. Yeah. I think probably we're kind of aware of those at any rate. did you have a committee. or was it each department? Each the consultant worked with each classification of employee? Well. they they worked with each position so and the job analysis questionnaire is the JAQs went out to each individual in each position. We asked them to fill that out with the very they have five factors that they then grade or score. I should say. And then the employee had an opportunity to propose changes to the job description. Those all then went to the department head or supervisor to review. and they made comments. and then they came back to us. and then to the consultant. so they've looked at every single job and job description at this point. which is quite a few.
Maryanne Peabody: any questions from the board members. Unknown: I was just curious if anybody from the on any of the boards were able to come and observe. you know. when they were speaking to the different i. Uh. what do you call it? Departments? I think that that would be interesting. just to have a an idea of what the questions were and how they came upon. salaries that they did. I hope I'm making sense. I know that Maryanne's lived it. I haven't lived it.
So. I mean. at this point. the consultant is is working primarily through me. They have interviewed almost all of our employees who submitted JAQs. the the questionnaires. which include our department heads. so they they had an opportunity to discuss their own staff and positions as well. We haven't had a board involved in that process yet. but I it is my goal. and I think our we've. we've actually. I. you know. made it clear to our consultant that we would like them to present either preliminary or final findings to the Personnel Board. possibly the Select Board. It depends. I don't know who. who would like to be involved. but I. you know. we have to limit it. We can't do everyone. But I was thinking Personnel board and Select board. So yeah.
Mary Ellen Castagno: that would be wonderful. Kate. Maryanne Peabody: and when? When would you anticipate that? Kate. Katherine Ryan: well. we. like I said. we're on track to have a final report by the end of October. So. okay. I you know. I would guess early November. Okay. it's my my best guess. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. that sounds good. yeah. And so the salary survey. they're just waiting now for the information to come back from towns. and then they'll run it through their data. and they'll run the data that they got. Katherine Ryan: Yeah. they at this point. they've received all the data that I think that we're going to. that we're going to receive. and there were just a few towns. I think we sent it out to 15 or 16 towns. I can't remember the entire list. and there were a handful that didn't respond. which we expected. but they are actively working on the salary survey piece now. Unknown: Alright. that sounds good. Thank you. because I know there's some concern in. I know that the Finance Committee is concerned too. and we have to think through what the town how the town is going to roll out the data if there are changes. and which are the ones that we need to address first. And. okay. that sounds that sounds reasonable. Okay. And anyone else have any other questions? Paul. do you have any questions? No. okay. great. Okay. so there the minutes will be. I will have the others at our next meeting. As long as I have. I'm do them. which I think I will. depending on when we schedule our next meeting. The next item was personnel. board members. reports and concerns. Anyone have concerns. Paul Morenberg: You want to discuss the setting a regular meeting schedule or. Maryanne Peabody: Yes. I'm sorry I skipped that. That was the next agenda item. Yes. it we've been kind of just going along and scheduling it at the end of each meeting. But. you know. Kate and I were talking. it would be much simpler if we all knew it was going to be the first Monday of the of them every month. or the third Tuesday of the month. I don't really have. you know. I only have. like. one date that I can't do in the month. But if we could all agree on a date. It seems that we could plan better that way. If there are things that come up. that are emergencies that require a vote. or if we have something from like a union grievance. or something like that comes up. then we would call an extra meeting. but it will be easier than. you know. having to write to each other. you know. to have Kate send out something and wait for everybody to come back with a date and then get it back to everyone. If we just knew that it was going to be a standard set meeting time. What do you guys think? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I would like that. I mean. Mondays and Tuesdays tend to be a little harder for me. So. and today is a Wednesday. So what about the first or second Wednesday of the month? Does that anybody have a conflict with that? And Kate. do you have a conflict with that? Unknown: I have a regularly scheduled meeting on the second Wednesday of every month. So I couldn't. I. unfortunately. couldn't do that. but I could do the first that would. that would work and then would we be able to get a room? That's the other thing. Katherine Ryan: Yeah. that's. that's not an issue. I think. I think we'll be fine there. Maryanne Peabody: and that's if we stick with our four o'clock time. right? Okay. so Paul Morenberg: I do the first Wednesday. I mean. obviously. Yeah. we What about. look to you know. conflicts that people have. but what a Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen Castagno: I'm fine with the first the October 1 is fine. My my calendar is clear. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I'm fine with the first Wednesday. That's no problem for me. We could just if. if that's a good date. Kate. we can just. Paul Morenberg: I will. I'm going to text or email Jill. Unknown: although it's Yom. Yom Kippur this year. Paul. oh. Paul Morenberg: okay. well. I mean subject to it could still be that. and then subject to changing. yeah. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: okay. okay. yes. yes. But October is October one is Yom Kippur. beginning at sundown. Well. we'll have to get it done quick.
Paul Morenberg: Well. actually. that you know what? That's true. though. That shouldn't be a problem if it's if the meeting is. you know. Maryanne Peabody: people aren't going some place for dinner or something on the road. right? But. yeah. we'll. we'll ask if none of us have conflicts. I guess that's okay. It's because it is before sundown. Uh. well. not in the middle of winter. Oh. yeah. it's only October. We have time on October. right? What time will? Mary Ellen Castagno: I think we can do it? We just have to talk fast. yeah. Maryanne Peabody: Okay. And then I would like to schedule the next meeting date. but we want to handle the the wording. Well. we can Mary Ellen Castagno: do that and send it to you. I don't know. Do we have time now. you said this? This is going to be nice. We do. I think Paul Morenberg: it'll take five minutes. Okay. Maryanne Peabody: alright. What does it say? As it is. Paul in the bylaw. it Paul Morenberg: says in section D. the Personnel Board shall receive such reasonable assistance and information as it may require for the discharge of its duties. And I would suggest you just sort of you add a second sentence and say reasonable assistance may include assistance in Minute taking by a town employee or consultant as needed or something.
Maryanne Peabody: And you was limited to minute taking no. we said. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I mean. it could. I mean. I'm trying to think where else we could. I mean. you know. we we do. I mean. everything else we do. we need to do ourselves. We need to read things and research them. I don't. I don't know Mary Ellen Castagno: what I need. the packet. Paul. I need the written packet in advance. Yeah. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I think that. and I think that. I think you I think that's already happens. I mean. maybe that could be available earlier. if that's something you need earlier. but I'm not sure we need to specify that. Yeah. worked Mary Ellen Castagno: out. but okay. I just wanted to put it out there because.
Unknown: um. Paul Morenberg: I mean. you know. I mean. it could say. I mean. it could also include. could all. I mean. you could put photocopying and transmission of documents. but. I mean. I don't think. I think that's already happening. So. okay.
Maryanne Peabody: so you want to say reasonable assistance man Paul Morenberg: may include. we may include the minute taking. you say. services of a of a town employee or consultant to provide minute taking as needed. something like that. I mean. I can tweak that a little bit. but Maryanne Peabody: do would you want to include software there or not? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. we could just so reasonable assistance.
Stronger. but I think may would be more palatable. May include Maryanne Peabody: minute taking assistance by a tom. Include
include minute Paul Morenberg: taking may include
Unknown: distance Paul Morenberg: with Minute. Taking by a town employee or consultant. town employee or consultant and as well Unknown: as as needed.
Paul Morenberg: software. software. or applications. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. because I think that's changing so fast that that's by the time this gets written that's really going to be the norm. right? So reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee. you want to say. contractor or consultant. What do you want to call Paul Morenberg: it? I said minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant as well as um. Mary Ellen Castagno: Availability of the availability. Paul Morenberg: as well as the purchase or licensing needed of needed. needed software or applications. Maryanne Peabody: yeah. or even if we just said. or as well as Paul Morenberg: I as Maryanne Peabody: well as taking software applications. because I'm not sure Paul Morenberg: I would limit it to. what if. what if we needed an application to do something. like. to help with something else. like. you know. classification stuff or something. I mean. I won't necessarily limit. I mean. that's. I think that's the need we anticipate now. but there could be other needs as well as
as well as access to software. Or applications for minute taking or other you
Mary Ellen Castagno: don't want to take this offline. Paul. it's Paul Morenberg: no. I don't think so. I mean. I don't think it's that complicated. I just. I'd rather not if we take it offline and we have. then we have a problem. how to approve it. okay. all right. How
about okay? How about this? Reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant. as well as access to software applications. minute taking or other necessary functions Maryanne Peabody: as access what is going on here. I'm sorry.
Paul Morenberg: Reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employee or consultant. as well as access to software or applications for minute taking or other necessary functions do
I mean. we could we could also even say. like. could we ever. could we ever need. like. access to databases or research. We could say. also access to.
Maryanne Peabody: well. I think. I think. I think if you just say access to software. applications for minute taking and other necessary functions. it would be things that we would need that will be under our purview. that we would and other boards would also probably want the same kind of thing. If they had something that they had to do. they would want access to it. I I think that kind of covers it as well as access to software. for applications. for minute taking or other necessary functions. Paul Morenberg: Okay. is that. Mary Ann. does that work for you? Mary Ellen Castagno: It works for me. It's fine. I'll just have to work with Mary Ann. because I don't get my pack at 72 hours before the meeting. and sometimes it's a back and forth. And if they're closed on Friday. it's a struggle. and I do need them in advance. but you don't have to put that in there. I'm just making it for the record. Paul Morenberg: I'm sure that. I'm sure that that can happen. And I'm Yeah. yeah. Mary Ellen Castagno: But that can go into the minutes. Paul. that's good enough. If it's. you know. if it's you know. for the minutes. so that it is memorialized. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. I'll put a note about that. because I didn't Mary Ellen Castagno: have to chase them. I should just get them automatically. But thank you. Paul Morenberg: Yeah. no. and I'm sure that's the intent. And occasionally there might be a glitch. but I have no doubt that's the that's the. And usual practice. Maryanne Peabody: and I think Kate and I work on the packet several weeks in advance. so we're hoping to be able to get it so that. so that it's available when Mary Ellen needs it. The problem usually occurs. I would say. during the summer. on Fridays. but I'm not sure that that's a problem when the town building is closed and we've got a tight time frame. But most of the time. I think you get it in. I get Mary Ellen Castagno: it. I have to kind of remind and chase. And in the past. it had been automatically done for me 72 hours in advance. and I could just go pick it up. So if I forget. or. you know. it's a Friday. and I'm not. you know. aware that they closed on Friday. That's when the you know. it causes an issue for me. I mean. Paul Morenberg: there can be. you know. I mean. there can be situations where things you know are still being. you know. developed a day or two before the meeting. So I'd hate to have a time standard. I'm sure that's the goal Mary Ellen Castagno: of the No no. I'm speaking out loud. I'm speaking out loud because Mary Ann. as she said. she has the agenda. She meets with her. you know. at least a week or so in advance. So. you know. just trying to assist with the process Maryanne Peabody: at all now. And I think for most boards. as long as we have an early meet. early in the week meeting. as long as people have the packet to read over the weekend. most boards. that's when they do it. But you know. sometimes. sometimes it's not so the fact that we've been meeting on Mondays usually gives us the weekend to read it. Mary Ellen Castagno: Yeah. so that's 72 hours before Marianne. but if see what I'm saying. But if it's a Wednesday. if it's a Wednesday. having it on Friday helps a lot. Paul Morenberg: I mean. I could also. you know. I mean. I don't know where you are. but we're all on Wayland. so. I mean. it's. I'm also more than happy to print Mary Ellen Castagno: it. Paul. you're not doing it. Thank you very much. I'm saying. I'm Paul Morenberg: saying. if there's a digital copy. on occasion. I'm more than happy to drop it off at your mailbox or whatever. or. I'm sure Mary Ann could do that. Maryanne Peabody: Yeah. I've offered to something. no.
Mary Ellen Castagno: but I appreciate the offer. but no. thank you. It can be done. And then I don't want to have to rely on somebody dropping it off. or remembering to drop it off. or that sort of thing. I think the way it is is fine. That's the way it was set up. It just needs to get back to a a regular routine of being done. you know. a regular cycle of being done without having to Paul Morenberg: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure it will be so Okay. Thank you. Maryanne Peabody: Absolutely okay. And so Paul. I can read what I have here. but. but you're going to put it in the minutes. the the addition that we want to get to Trudy. and then I can send it to her. Is it reasonable? Paul Morenberg: I read it twice. and I think so I could just do a motion to I'll do that. and I'll just send you an email. So I'm going to. I move to that the Personnel Board approve the following revision to the chapter 43 minutes to say in section D after the first sentence that reasonable assistance may include minute taking assistance by a town employer consultant. as well as access To software applications for minute taking or other necessary functions. Maryanne Peabody: Yes. that's right. yes. Thank you. Perfect. All Paul Morenberg: right. Second. second. Maryanne Peabody: okay. our Roll Call. Vote. Paul. yes. yes. Mary Ellen. yes. Ma'am. Mary Ann. yes. Paul Morenberg: Okay. great. We just got some business done efficiently. okay. and then you'll send it to me. Maryanne Peabody: and that'll be fine. great. Okay. um. topics not reasonably anticipated. 48 hours in advance. if
Paul Morenberg: any. Maryanne Peabody: none by me. Mary Ellen. no next meeting date. We do have a union grievance to hear. and we need to get information. more information from the union. and we also need to schedule it with them. Kate. what do you think is a reasonable a reasonable time for that? Katherine Ryan: I believe we had discussed the week of September. 15. so the 16th or 17th? I can't remember if everyone was available at that that date. those dates. Mary Ellen Castagno: Let me look. Are you thinking the 15th? The 16th of the 17th? Katherine Ryan: Yes. of September. Mary Ellen Castagno: Let me look. I Unknown: And Maryanne Peabody: it probably we won't have much. I don't Maybe we'll have some policies to go over. but it's really it will take. probably. that will take a large portion of the meeting. and if we can have any personnel policies that we need to do. And I'll have the minutes at least from May. And Did. did you all do the June ones Kate. ? Katherine Ryan: I don't remember. Maryanne Peabody: I can I took hers for her. she was going to do May. And I think she took June with your mind. And then Paul is doing this one. Mary Ellen Castagno: So. so the 17th. at four o'clock will work for me. That's a Wednesday. If that works for others. Unknown: Paul. how about you? Paul Morenberg: I could do that.Yeah. I Maryanne Peabody: can do that as well. Kate. if that works for the Unknown: Union. I will reach out to them tonight. and I'll make sure that they can do that. Okay? And then we we would need more information from them than what they originally sent. but that will be fine Mary Ellen Castagno: I don't think we got anything. I think you were the only one Maryanne Peabody: that knew. yeah. yeah. Well. sometimes when they send me the stuff. they send me a lot of information. and sometimes they send me not a lot of information. but I do not have agreements. but we need more information. Okay. yeah. great. All right. Mary Ellen Castagno: Um. so we have that. and we also have October 1. correct? Paul Morenberg: Yeah. okay. while everybody is here. would. would. could we start a little earlier. like 3pm just because of the holiday? Sure. usually it'll be 4pm or four for October 1. Is that okay with UK? Mary Ellen Castagno: Because we can do it. sure. Okay. so. 3pm on October 1. great. perfect. Okay. I will do that. Paul Morenberg: and I'll email Jill. Okay.
Mary Ellen Castagno: Well. this was a very productive meeting. I have to say. yes. Well. it was. Maryanne Peabody: it was a short one. We just had two items that we needed to do by the end of December. Um. so then I would say. if Is there anything else. Kate. that you would want to add. or Katherine Ryan: no. I'm I'm good. Unknown: Kate. when does I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. but when do they go back to regular hours at the town hall. Katherine Ryan: We it's this week. Okay. yes. okay. so we'll be in on Friday of this week. okay? Maryanne Peabody: And then there being no further business. May I have a motion to adjourn. So move okay. okay. so roll call vote. Mary Ellen. yes. Paul. Paul Morenberg: yes. Maryanne Peabody: Mary Ann. yes. and we are adjourning at 4:58pm.
by my clock. Anyways. hook.
Planning Board
17-Sep-25 - Planning Board02:05:07
10-Sep-25 - Planning Board01:42:45
27-Aug-25 - Planning Board02:27:46
13-Aug-25 - Planning Board02:31:01
Anette Lewis: This. This is
Wednesday. September the 17th.
2025 this is a meeting of the
Wayland planning board at seven
o'clock. and the meeting is
being held via zoom. I will call
them well. I'll call the meeting
to order and then do a rundown
of what's on the agenda. for
attendance. Oh. okay. I'd like
to Ira Montague.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I am
here.
Anette Lewis: Jesse Newberry
Jesse Newberry: here.
Anette Lewis: Robin Borgestedt.
Robin Borgestedt: Here.
Anette Lewis: Anette Lewis here.
Larry Kiernan is not here.
Okay. I'm surprised to see Nate in. but that's fine. I thought we were just having people show up in the panel. in the attendees. and then we were going to elevate them. Robert. Robert Hummel: yes. I only said I send invites to only three will to Nate. Tom White of the ZBA and Bill Sterling. and that's it. Anette Lewis: Invites for a panelist. or invites for. Robert Hummel: a panelist. Anette Lewis: Okay. that's not what I wrote to them. and that's not what I was expecting. but that's fine. Robert Hummel: Well. especially for Bill. certainly he gets a little confused. so sometimes it's helpful for him to get the complete invite so he can actually log in. Anette Lewis: yeah. except that sometimes we're gonna want him not to necessarily be sitting on the panel. For the whole meeting. Larry Kiernan. are you here now? Larry Kiernan: I am now in the correct meeting. Robin Borgestedt: Okay. good
Anette Lewis: for the agenda this evening. We don't have any draft minutes to approve. We have a discussion of possible amendments to zoning bylaws with representatives. I expect. of the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Design Review Advisory board. The whole boards were invited to participate. but they We only heard back from the two chairs. and we're going to be talking especially about the signage by law 198. Dash 501 and 502 site plan approval by law. maybe section 198. 601 and following housekeeping. cleanup. things that Robert has been keeping track of that we need to deal with. and ground mounted solar and battery. battery. energy storage systems. which would be a new bylaw that Jesse Newberry has been working on. Then updates from the town planner with a brief overview of the Dover amendment parameters for exempt uses under the state law and our bylaw. and status of current peer reviews for the upcoming site plan reviews. then board comments and concerns. And I'm not aware of any matters that I didn't know about 48 hours in advance and then adjourn.
Okay. Bill Sterling is here and well. we have a few minutes before everyone is here. Robert. what is the status of the peer reviews? Robert Hummel: Sure. So I discussed this with Aneri before I went on vacation. and I came back on vacation. and she has officially resigned from the town. and she's given a two week notice. Is noted in. I believe. noted in the last Planning board meeting. I think that Nia mentioned that as one of the updates. and she has not been in since I started back on Monday. So I have the information-from so there's two projects we have. We'll look at the church. and then the Carroll School. So for the church. I we had three scope of works. and I think we have three. Pardon me. you have three. What we have through two projects that we're talking about? Yes. So we have the church the Coptic. the Coptic Church. and then we have the Carroll school. the education use. so for the for the Coptic Church. we have three peer review score works that we received back. And I think Believe. believe that me and Linda have agreed upon one of them. And then for the Carroll School. I have not received anything yet for that. Anette Lewis: have the RFPs has gone out? Robert Hummel: the RFP the RFP is also different. you mean the RFQ. whatever I believe so. but I would have to follow up with Aneri. when she gets back. Anette Lewis: she has somebody check her email to see ? Robert Hummel: she should be back tomorrow. Hopefully. okay. so we've been kind of itching to follow up with her on that. And then for. I believe that the board wanted transportation. traffic engine peer review. Is that correct for both of them? Anette Lewis: Not necessarily. the you need to make that determination under the Dover amendment. certainly for the parking and the circulation on site.
Robert Hummel: So did the board want peer reviews for that too. Anette Lewis: for what two? Robert Hummel: the two projects for a traffic engineer to that's what Anette Lewis: I just said. certainly for the on site traffic movement. And I you can do some on the approach way. but you have to be careful because of the requirements of the Dover amendment. as you'll recall from the Veritas project. Robert Hummel: So circulation and what was the other?
Anette Lewis: circulation and driveway approach. I mean. they can. I don't know. mmyou have to talk to the applicant about what they're willing to pay for. those things they would have to pay for. but for traffic review. didn't one of them send in a traffic review. They both did okay. So you could have somebody look at them. I guess. But I don't think we can do a major. major. do on those. Robert Hummel: I have. just today. because it wasn't. wasn't. I'm sure where near he was with we've seen those out. So I send. send them out for both of them. Anette Lewis: So okay Robert Hummel: but I've not received anything back. No scoreboard back yet for the writers. And I've not received anything yet back for the Carroll School for 503g but my understanding is probably in Aneri's mailbox. So if she's not tomorrow. then I will. I will request IT to take a look at their dept email box. because I we need. I need to move on this. Anette Lewis: Yeah. no. we do. And it would be good to have the peer at least preliminary peer review done before the October Robert Hummel: Yeah. that would be the goal. But I think this. 15 hearing.
this change in in uh. staffing. and her absence has had made. made a little harder to get this done. especially when I don't have all the information. And it also Anita us out so I don't have Anita was. I think she was an emailed on some of those emails. so she's also not there too. so I can't see what's going on. Anette Lewis: Yeah. she didn't have them either when I talked to her. Robert Hummel: So that's what we have now been trying to put pieces together since I since I was out on vacation for a week. Anette Lewis: Okay? So for the things that have gone out. it'll be consolidated with Board of Health. Planning board and Conservation. Robert Hummel: yep. So for the Board of Health. for people about the ground mounding analysis. That's what the Board of Health would like to see. Can think a lot of stuff septic is a little early for that stuff. but so mostly be ground mounding. But their stuff would be the chapter 193. I think of chapter 193 of storm warning. Anette Lewis: I just want to mention that the notice went out for the in the newspaper for both of those hearings. I didn't see it in advance. and it just said that it was going to be a Zoom meeting. So for the first meeting that we have for each of the hearings. they're going to be zoom. They're not going to be in person. as we discussed. but for those thereafter. they're going to be in zoom and in person. Robert Hummel: Yeah. I think it's. I think it's. it's easier for me to set up the first hearing. if it's just zoom. and then we can. we can go to a better Tran better to hybrid into next meeting. Anette Lewis: Okay. wait. I mean the reason that I'd like to have all the peer review guys lined up. is I'd like to be able to schedule hearings so that people know what the subject matter is that we're going to be dealing with at each of the hearings. And perhaps be able to consolidate then. when we're talking about storm water. perhaps be able to meet with the Conservation Commission at the same time so that it's not as disruptive for the applicant and for the residents. Yeah. so let's think about that. Thank you. Robert Hummel: And when was it that. when was a decision that you wanted to be hybrid was that? Was that last week's meeting? Yeah? Yeah. right. So good idea everything. I get everything done before they lost me. me because. no. Anette Lewis: well. and Anina thought that she could add it afterward. And I explained to her that she couldn't. because it was a legal notice. She thought that we could add the in person afterward. Robert Hummel: Yeah. it's fine. but we can just change it. We'll just move it to hybrid at the next main. yeah. Anette Lewis: okay. Robert Hummel: not big deal Anette Lewis: um. I don't see Tom here. Tom White Unknown: act. There's an ACTWO. I don't know who that is. Anette Lewis: unless somebody else came in. Robert Hummel: someone has a hand up in the in the audience. Anette Lewis: I just okay. that might be Tom. Robert Hummel: it's. don't recgonize the name. Thomas White: Sorry. That's me. That's my Anette Lewis: Oh. good. Thomas White: ACTWO. that's my company's name. Unknown: Terrific. Anette Lewis: So we have Bill Sterling. who I can't see. Bill. are you here? Robbie Bullard: I'll bring him over. Anette Lewis: Okay. I thought he was brought over already.
So this evening. we have Tom White Chair of the zoning board. Nate Maltinsky who is our zoning Commissioner. and not Susan Westerling. she's not to be brought over. She's the public. Bill Sterling got it. And Bill Sterling. who's the Chair of the Design Review Board. so I'm assuming for you. Tom and you. Bill. that you've discussed what we're going to be discussing tonight with your board. and you've got the authority to speak for each of your boards. because they're not posted. And Thomas White: yes. for me. that is. that is the case. Anette Lewis: Can't hear you. Bill. you're you're muted. William Sterling: I assumed our entire board would be invited to this meeting. Unknown: They were. but you're not posted. so that's okay. as long as you can represent. William Sterling: I assume that Robert knew that we were going to be having to post it. I don't know. Anette Lewis: Uh. um. I don't think he posts. I don't. You'll have to work that out with him. Robert Hummel: I don't make any assumptions. Do you need? If you need a postage just ask I I'm not. I just got back from vacation. so been trying to catch up so not was not paying for everything. Who posted what Anette Lewis: did the invitation out to everybody on your on your board. William Sterling: Oh. do you want me to sign off then? Anette Lewis: No. Robert. to start off.
Robert. have you spoken with these guys before you prepared the sign? Unknown: I did not. Anette Lewis: You did not. Okay. Robert Hummel: see. these are some ideas that have came from Well. in general. yes. So I have had talks with. with Bill Sterling about some part of the signage by law. about how we have one example be the Jersey Mike sign. how that's it's technically not allowed the back lit signs. and that'd be something we could potentially put into a zoning amendment. But in general. these are the things that I've picked up that we don't have today. and that would be kind of be cleaned up a little bit. and some of it is pretty much basic I can put on. I don't know if how you want to run this back and put on what I have so far? Anette Lewis: No. not yet. I don't think so. Let's hear. I don't know Who should go first. You Tom and Bill decide who wants. I assume the two of you have talked. right? Thomas White: Yeah. we've we've talked. We had a we had a discussion a couple weeks ago. in general. So I can just only. I can really only comment from our perspective. on the zoning board. right? Because we actually have to hear of the sign. the applications for signs and every single application. someone always wants to there's always a special reason why they need to do something slightly different from the bylaw. The most recent example was a pediatric clinic on old Connecticut path. right kind of in the center of town like to comply technically with this the bylaw like they wouldn't have been able to put a small sign on the rear of the building. sort of facing the parking lot. sort of advertising the doctors names. right? Because the sign on the front. when you combine it with all the other signs in the building. kind of exceeded the. The 30 square foot rule. right? So there hasn't been a single sign application that we get on the zoning board where there doesn't have to be some. I don't want to call it waiving. but some. some requests to somehow tweak something in the regulations. because they need for this reason. and they're usually always benign reasons. right? But I can my observation as an architect when working in other communities is I've seen other sign bylaws that I don't have any examples to share because I wasn't that well prepared for tonight. but I've seen examples where other communities have a bylaw that has different requirements for different districts. Now. maybe this is appropriate for Wayland. Maybe it's not. but I'll use the example of Waltham. Wait in Waltham. there are some districts where the signs are much larger because they're viewed from the highway. Maybe not appropriate for Wayland. right? Because we don't have a highway. but as a case of as an example. right? Certain buildings are allowed to have much larger signs. because the primary audience for the sign is vehicle traffic moving at 60 miles an hour. Other districts where it's more residential the signs. signs are sort of designed to be in keeping with that more residential district. So a possibility when thinking about how to consider revising the ordinance is that there could be slightly different requirements for different districts. right? And I'm coming at this from the perception that I'm hearing that in general. people are unhappy with the signs because we don't have a super strict way on the Zoning Board of Appeals. of interpreting the esthetic criteria of the signs. right? We had can only go by the by law. We might have personal opinions and say This sign is unattractive. like. I really don't like that. The blue color. I think the red lettering is tacky. We can't that can't be part of our hearing process. So we do get advisory opinions from the design review review board that can weigh in on the kind of quality level of the sign and sort of their compliance with the bylaw. But because of the structure of the Design Review Board and the way it is set up in the bylaw. these are kind of only advisory opinions. and a applicant with a strong legal case for why a sign needs to be larger. needs to be split into three parts. needs to have a certain geometry. Can easily say. well. like. you know. you have a signage by law. it consists of these five paragraphs. And there's. there's nothing in these five paragraphs. No one has said this to me. but there's nothing in those five paragraphs that says. like. you can kind of legislate or sign approval on do you think it's ugly? You think it's architecturally appropriate. etc? We can't do that anyway. really. no. so. so it's but other communities have done this. There are other communities you can see. I think people use um. Freeport Maine as an example. Like their signage ordinance in the center district. like all the signs are made out of wood. they've stipulated the material. They've stipulated the size. Can we stipulated the color? I don't know. in Unknown: Massachusetts that. I Robert Hummel: don't know you can do it depict historic districts. Anette Lewis: In a historic district. yes. and Nantucket. you can. but that's got special legislation for Nantucket. Thomas White: correct? You know. this is so I'm only I. again. as an architect. not a lawyer. I don't necessarily. I'm not great legal expert on what is permitted and not. I'm just sort of. you know. giving you examples of things that I both I think of. like the challenges we have on the zba right. enforcing the by law that we have right. and the fact that. you know. in crafting any bylaw right. you don't want to be so specific. because you then constrain options. and you might accidentally make something much worse. because you can't if you're too specific. you can't think of every instance that you want to legislate. So you've got to create something that that is the great balance between. you know. control and maximum flexibility. right? But hearing that people have been generally not pleased with the signs that that we wind up approving on the zba. we're sort of. we're happy if there is some. some way that we can either get a little more authority. kind of. architecturally. to to shape these signs within the bounds of. you know. Mass General zoning laws. or is there some other vehicle can can the Design Review Boards comments sort of include more kind of architectural critiques that we can kind of bring in to our hearing? Unknown: Systems and and sort of Thomas White: opine on. you know. within the context of of the by law. Anette Lewis: the way that the by law is written currently is relatively generic. It's 40 square feet. essentially. you know. you can figure out where you want to put it. how you want to put it. but it's 40 square feet. So that's and there are provisions. I think. in the by law. which you know about. that give you the ability to Unknown: make them bigger. Anette Lewis: Yes. the idea of having different districts becomes. this is just me speaking problematic. because we don't have that many different No. you don't. you know. yeah. and residential isn't supposed to have them at all. true. And the town center has its own zoning stuff under that. so it doesn't leave lots. no. Unknown: So if you could give us specific things Anette Lewis: that that we can try and work with that would help. I mean. it's 40 square feet too small. Does it need to be bigger? You know. on the lit dental building. that sign seems really large. I don't know. Thomas White: it seems like it's large. but it's not. It's like. because we. that was a that one we went through for a lot. and I mean. they did ask for. they did ask for an increase. but I want to say it's within 15% so I would say every universally. we are asked for increases. A lot of times it's because people want more than one sign. The most recent one was the approval for the Dunkin Donuts Jimmy John's facility that's going in where the um. Unknown: former Bank of America was like Thomas White: when you added this. I believe. and I could be mistaken. but I believe when you add they and they made the case. and when you added the square footage of the signs. I think it was four square feet or five square feet over. or something like that. It was a trivial amount. But again. the case was made. There needs to be signs on two faces. and they probably should be of equal scale. So for the most part. the request is to is to allow us to increase it. Which the bylaw. I don't know that necessarily need to change. We have the ability to increase it. I would. I would say that it's doesn't seem very well worded. It's horrendous. because when I read it. I and again. I'm not a lawyer. but I could read the sentence to I could read the ability for us to increase the signage size two different ways. So if I can do that. I can imagine someone who's a really skilled little gate would have a different opinion. So I it would probably be nice if it was maybe there was something a little more legally Anette Lewis: precise. Yeah. it would be nice if the whole thing were more legally there's a lot Thomas White: of ambiguity in the number of Anette Lewis: years ago. I was tasked with Susan Kaufman. who was a member of the zoning board. to come up with a news sign by law. and we worked for a week and came up with it and took it to the planning board. and the planning board then said. Oh. that's nice. And then put it aside. and maybe we can look at it again. And also. I mean. I understand what you're saying. and maybe it should say something like for two street facing sides of a building. or street facing and parking lot facing sides of a building. you can have a sign or something like that. Thomas White: Yeah. that wouldn't be that wouldn't necessarily be bad.
Anette Lewis: But aside from that. are there other things other than the faces that it needs to be on in the saw and for 40 square feet? Is that a bad number. or is that an okay one?
Thomas White: I think it's a reasonable number. I actually. you know. not withstanding all the things we're talking about. Unknown: The fact that you have Thomas White: a body in town that does have the ability to look at it and regulate it. that that does give us the ability to say what you're proposing is too large. right? So. like. I would be hesitant to say. you know. make it 60 square feet. Because I think if people's perceptions are the signs that we have now are on the large side. I wouldn't advocate increasing it. We have the ability to kind of constrain them to. you know. again. because we have the ability to allow the 40 square feet to be exceeded. It gives us the ability to make a determination of. What we think is reasonable. but this is where. this is where it becomes challenging. because I Unknown: think of an example like Thomas White: if someone asked for a 100 square foot sign on the face of a building the size of Stop and Shop. that's architecturally reasonable. because that might be proportional to the size of the building. but if someone asked for a 100 square foot sign on the lit dental building. it would be too large. So is there a way for us to bring in. in the bylaw. a discussion about sort of the architectural character of a sign and why it may be appropriate to allow for a larger one versus not. I think that would be the P that's. in a way. in my mind. the missing piece by just saying we can only go by the sentences in the bylaw. it implies that the zoning board doesn't have the ability to talk about the actual design merits of a sign. and yet. I mean. someone is coming to us to approve it. and this is why it's a little difficult Anette Lewis: a special permit. I think that you have that ability. I think we'd have to ask town council if we can bring in the architectural elements. I would say we probably can't. because we're supposed to be pretty much cut and dry. Yeah. the architectural elements are very subjective. Unknown: But could Robin Borgestedt: you tie the if they're coming for a special permit for a larger size? Could you tie an absolute maximum to the percentage of the face of the building that the sign is going to be on. you know. 40 square feet. but under no circumstances can a special permit be allowed that would permit the sign to take up more than. you know. 20% of the face of the building. Thomas White: And so I appreciate. I appreciate the idea there. I think it might be hard to do just because there are not a huge amount. but there are. there are enough buildings of differing sizes in town where it might be. might be hard to do. because what could look good at 20% on some building. might look better at 35% on another building. So it might be hard. I like the idea. but it might be difficult to actually implement something that tricky. Anette Lewis: also on the face of a building. depending on how the building is constructed. the top part might be smaller than the bottom part. And how do you know what the face is that you're counting Robin Borgestedt: from? Right? But is there some. you know. is there some similar way. some other measurement that you can take. that you can say there's a hard stop at this percentage. even for a special permit.
Thomas White: Right now. there's not. it just is up to us on the zoning board to say we don't. we don't agree that this is appropriate. And. you know. we have to. we have to find the language to say that it's not appropriate within the sentences of the signage. Anette Lewis: By law. no. you can also use the special permit. We can use Thomas White: a special permit language that it's. like. it's. it would derogate from the character. yeah. okay. Then. then we probably have enough. I mean. we haven't been presented with something like that. so it's it hasn't been an issue so far. But you know. if we're looking at understanding this. it's a possibility that Unknown: it could be so if there are other Anette Lewis: things that you think of. even as we're talking tonight. and even in other parts of our by law. I know that you've given us stuff over the years and never done anything with it. We're starting to try and and fix the so just pipe up. Bill. Do you want to talk? Unknown: Sure. I.
William Sterling: I looked at this from and I agree with all of Tom's concerns. having been on the zoning board myself for over 10 years. I do feel though that in those 10 years. even though it was frustrating. we did manage to get through coping with some very. you know. cryptic notes in the zoning by law about signage. I You may and I agree with Tom on this too. that you may regret getting more detailed about what you are going to require. because that will just make the zoning board's job probably more difficult. I think that let me get get into what I was thinking about. though. Robert Hummel: when we did the guidelines back in 2011
William Sterling: our committee. our working group. I believe we looked. At the Newton. city of Newton signage bylaws as an example. at the time. as a as a good example of signage
guideline. And we also looked at some others. several others. So this past week. when we were invited to join this meeting. I thought about what where we are today. and it appears that there's still a sentiment in Wayland Unknown: that that our town William Sterling: look to the town of Concord as an example of a town we'd like to look like. Anette Lewis: and I think that William Sterling: the first thing I did then was to check their bylaws out. They they rewrote their bylaws in 2020 and that date was encouraging to me. thinking that. well. they've fixed all the kind of problems that we may have faced. But as I scan through the signage
Robert Hummel: miles. I it was William Sterling: surprising to me that they actually allow signs that we would never want in Wayland. So what I wanted to do next was Robin and I talked about having the Design Review Board look at different towns. I was going to drive around Concord and and get a better idea of what the how the signage fits with their buildings and fits with the character of the town. It may not be as consistent as you were mentioning a historic district where you say all signs have to be wood. which I think they do in places like Beacon Hill. I think that it does. It may end up that we can use their recent sign by laws as a guide of how to organize the information. but we may not agree with all the decisions they made about what would be required. Unknown: That's where I am on that. Okay. Nate. do you want to weigh in? Well. Mr. White stole the show. So that was well. well. put together. Thomas White: Tom. I don't know Unknown: about that. No. no. really. you covered all the bases. I believe that maybe the style of lights that is more prevalent now. like the ones that were permitted for Jersey mics. where it's a it's got a rare illumination that's not obtrusive to to anyone is not glaring. I think we have to look at new styles of lighting that we can permit. that that is tasteful. that there's there's a lot of new designs. a lot of new technology that's out there that can be utilized. that I think we have to look at and address in the future here. I don't know if you've gone by Jersey Mike's at night. but it's. it's a well done light. And is there? Is there marquee is what they use for all their stores. And I I think that the zoning board has done a great job of adhering to the needs of the applicants and working with them to make the signage work. and nothing has been in my tenure so far that nothing's been out of control and within reason. So there are. there is some good language. and I did look at a few other towns. but I would like to see your. your work that you've done previously. Anette. that you presented to the planning board years ago. Okay. I'll look for it. Anette Lewis: So with a jersey Mike sign. What kind of lighting would you call that if we were going to draft something for that? Unknown: It is a low illumination. rare lighting. and it's more of the like a halo. It's a halo lighting. and William Sterling: as opposed to internally illuminated. That's that's not allowed. that's correct. and that's why we were material. then a backlight will shine through the sign material. and that's not allowed. yeah. Thomas White: And that's why we didn't flag this as a concern. because it seems to. it seems to not meet the requirement for the. you know. backlit right component. even though it is illuminated and it's got a halo effect. So this is an instance where I don't. I don't think they designed this to skirt the language of the bylaw. I think it's their it's their brand. But this is an unintended consequence of the. About the way the by law is worded. And I don't think anyone would have anticipated trying to come up with a definition of that style of sign lighting. because it's not it. Probably it's not very common. It's done more now. but it's not something that I think would have been anticipated. Anette Lewis: So when in our bylaws. we have that signs can't oscillate. They can't. I believe it says somewhere that they can't be neon signs and they can't be internally lit. Is my recollection. Is basically the three criteria. Unknown: Are they problematic for you to have those criteria? No. I don't think so. I would keep them too. Okay. they're fine.
Anette Lewis: So Robert has gone through and made some suggestions for us. Doesn't cover all of the things you're talking about. and I've read through them. and our bylaws are really confusing. I mean. I was even though he marked them up. they're still confusing. And I think that they need some assistance. Robert. do you want to put them up and take us through so that we can all see the kinds of things you're talking about and tell us. in an overview. what kinds of changes you were thinking that we should do. Robert Hummel: Yeah. so for the first paragraph. just really make it very easy to understand who has the Fay to approve signs and what. what can the zba or which special. special permit granted for you can do so first. Section five. oh. 1.11 is just cleaning it up. but it also takes away the lines that provided. However. the signs with moving parts or internal limited are prohibited to allow that internal lighting in limited signs like Jersey makes. And then another thing that that the pilot doesn't touch about is that is Dover amendment signs. So putting a section in that under five. oh. 1.2 to cover non profit. educational. our cultural. religious or child care uses says something that'd be something new. because we don't have a category for that today. Point three. oh. I skipped over this. Also adding three new definitions display area. sign and temporary sign. So actually given information. so setting. what does mean in in Section 104. and what display area means? Because that is also a discussion that people have. is. how you do. how do you actually measure display area? Is it the whole box? Is a drawing a box around it. or is just. you know. each. each one you have so be drawing a giant box around the sign. And that's that. that it will be the display area. so that would be not a a Unknown: just a disagreement. Robert Hummel: And then format to 550. 1.3 adding the word signs when you know upper casing it also adding a section about science cannot be illuminated longer than 30 minutes after before. before or after closing any signs just to kind of loosen. you know. close then close that there. One of the issues we're finding in this town. I've noticed. is people will just put up temporary signs up in it. We don't have. we don't have a section today about temporary signs. So a new company comes in. let's say. you know. Mike's clock. You know Clock Company. They come into town and they got. you know. a permit from the zba. and then they probably signs up. We have. it's. it's. it's our job is staff to enforce that. So one ideas would be to allow them to put up temporary signs for the. you know. the first 30 days. while they open up. and then for them to. you know. take that down once the 30 days is over. just so they can get that the new business in. But they're not about to give it a long term. because we've had that in the past where new businesses get their special. you know. their special power. For the zba. they put up the signs. and then they put up these. a phrase signs for up. and then we don't have. we don't have a section in a bylaw. And this is something I've discussed with needs. It's just giving them the grace period for 30 days. But one idea would be to allow for temporary sign. Allowed them to apply for a temporary sign with this with the building Commissioner. and then for them take it down after 30 days is over. just so they can get the new business in and people can find them. but then also give them the opportunity to actually Unknown: advertise. so that. Robert Hummel: I have to right now. I also wrote down.
potentially adding something into the first section about allowing signs on two faces of the wall. kind of we talked about the young donuts and Jimmy John about how they have a sign on the front of the building. and then they want to decide. and potentially allowing that. if it. if it's within the 40 square feet. and making. maybe being making that by right. so that businesses have to come in if they comply with the bylaw with 40 square feet. but they just have two signs because they. you know. are ones on the part driveway and one is on the road. That is a potential idea we could. we could add in there. So. but I do agree this time bar is Unknown: very small. but also there's Robert Hummel: places in this bylaw where it's very confusing. and I think it'd be helpful to clean that up at the same time. Anette Lewis: So when you talk about the faces of a building. this is for everybody. all of us that we've been talking about. One could say two faces. One could say faces facing on public areas. There's some buildings that might need three because of the way that they face. How would it be easiest for the zoning board? Thomas White: I guess if it was instead of. instead of specifying a number. you could say. you know. signs could be permitted on multiple faces. you know.
Unknown: with appropriate Thomas White: reviews. or something like that. Because if you say two faces. I think Anette makes an excellent point. Maybe there's a building that's an octagon at a corner that needs signs on three sides. So I wouldn't want to say only two. I like Robert's point that if there's a way to streamline this so someone. someone who has the need for something that's a little bit unusual. signs on two sides. but they're under the 40 square feet. maybe they could just be approved. you know. by the building Commissioner as of right? And it doesn't require a permit. That's an interesting idea as well. So I think you could say signs could be permitted on multiple phases. you know. subject to review. or some language like that Anette Lewis: when you're reviewing a project that clearly is going to need a sign. from my point of view. you should be approving the sign at the same time you shouldn't. They should not be walking away without having at least the size of the sign and the location of the sign approved and then come back for. you know. the final sign when they when they get it. because we have people who have done buildings with no signage. and they should have had a special permit for the building to begin with. And then they don't. they walk away with no sign permit. permit. and then they go back to you for the sign permit. It just doesn't seem Unknown: efficient. I Thomas White: Yes. So the last two restaurants. we actually we approved the signage permit and the restaurant use special permit at the same time. That is a little unusual. Most people bifurcate the process. I don't know why. and give us a sign. They come up. they say. this is. we're going to come back later with a signed permit. William Sterling: That's been my experience. too. It's. I'm not quite sure why. you know. Thomas White: So we combine them. William Sterling: They're building a building on spec. Yeah. they don't know Jesse Newberry: who's gonna Yeah. that could be so
Thomas White: we don't necessarily have a problem with it. but as I said. Where. where we can we like to streamline it and write one decision with both permits. So as I said. the last two. last two restaurants. we were able to do that and combine them. Robert Hummel: An interesting case is the terrain project. I believe that they came in front of the Zion view board already about for their signage plan and their science plan is is. of course. over 40 square feet. But when we. when me and Bill. looked at together. um. based on how many tenants I used to have in that Plaza. the number of signage was the number of proposed signage square footage was under the number of tenants that he if you took each tenant and occupied by 40 square feet. or it was a number. But I don't they don't believe they have applied Thomas White: for the zba yet. They have not applied to the zba for that the signage. they Robert Hummel: haven't closed in a property too. So they're not gonna apply for the sign. They're not gonna zba until they close on a property. Yeah. you haven't closed or the the property manager has not closed in property yet. so they haven't applied for it. So there are some scenarios where. yeah. would have been nice to rank him in. With their plan and approved it. but they also have to make sure that they're not wasting anybody's time and money by submitting a plan. And then it's me happening. Anette Lewis: So one of the areas that needs to be changed in the bylaw is it talks about per lot. and sometimes you will have three lots combined for one project. And sometimes you'll have one lot with. as you said before. five tenants. So we need to figure out probably more on. well. depending. I was going to say probably more on a per tenants. size per tenant. number of signs. the problem then becomes as and I don't know if these are all approved signs. but if you look at the office building at the corner of Boston Post Road and Pelham Island. there are signs that are showing up. I'm sure they're way over. They're 40. I don't know if those are even approved. Unknown: Does anyone know Thomas White: they haven't? We haven't seen any applications for Unknown: anything else
William Sterling: we when we were on it. Anette. a number of times. the zoning board. when I was in the zoning board. a number of times we basically. and it wasn't written in the bylaws. We basically had to wing it and say. Well. this is a multi tenant complex. You take what used to be donlins complex. and it had many tenants and many signs. and we basically just had to use our own judgment on how many you know. if you have at least one sign per tenant and send this. I know we have two entrances. one in the front and one in the back. so you have to use your judgment. And I think it would be hard to legis. you know. to get legislative about it. and to find every condition that you're going to face. but you may want to put some language in there that gives the zoning board level of comfort that they can do this make right value Unknown: judgment. Yeah. that makes sense. Thomas White: and that's as simple as you know. confirming with town council that we can use not only the signage by law. but every bit of the language in the 4201. for a special permits.
because typically. we've been given the guidance. whether it's correct or not. that we need to refrain from making kind of specific design you know. design comments you know. which are usually more for the planning board or the Design Review Board. But given the unusual circumstance we have here where we're in charge of enforcing this like. you know. I just want it would be great to just have confirmation that we have perhaps maybe more leeway than we have traditionally been thinking Robin Borgestedt: Roberts. Roberts draft that's on the screen does provide some language. right? The very first sort of section in that big paragraph. yeah. each business on a lot is entitled to one wall sign. and each lot is entitled to one freestanding sign to display all the businesses. So. you know. kind of taking that and maybe beefing that up and making it. you know. little more clear. The difficult situation is when each business also has. you know. a roadway facing facade. and. you know. their main entrance is on a different facade. kind of thing. William Sterling: Yeah. Donald's is another example of that. you know. they have a major road entrance from two different roads. So they need two kiosks with multi signs. maybe the third one on the intersection with the corner. you know. So they have multiple needs there.
Anette Lewis: Also talking about businesses. Sometimes we have not businesses. We have churches. we have social clubs. so we have to figure out how to word that kind of stuff. Thomas White: Well. that would be. there are provisions in the Dover amendment about religious uses. so that may be difficult to
Unknown: develop. or at least a little more challenging.
Robert Hummel: Are we? How do you feel about putting a provision about for free. saying sign to add Unknown: landscaping? I
Thomas White: think it's a good idea. I think it's hard. It's hard to enforce. because. say. they would put us in on the zoning board. in the position of telling them what they have to landscape with which we're happy to do. But like. you know. it's like you don't. you know. probably don't want us saying you have to use these kinds of shrubs. like. at this density. this. Right? I mean. that would be difficult for us to do from a design perspective. Robert Hummel: A good. a good zoning by law for signage is. is actually the town of Acton. And I worked at Town Acton for six years in the past. And they were. we were very. they had a very. very. very detail Zoning Bylaw. section by section. village districts. non village districts. and it is one section and about. they have to have landscaping for free. saying sign and space still not a landscaping is based on the height of the sign. So if you. if your height is the size six feet. you would multiply by it by two. and then you would square that so be 144 square feet of landscaping. And it just says that landscaping must be planted and maintained with suitable vegetation. shrubs and flower. It didn't say what kind of things. Okay. so there is provisions. I. I didn't put in this draft. But we. if you. if you want to beautify signage in the future. you could require landscaping. And that was also one of the things that the smart could go to the planning board of zba for in time of acting too. is if you wanted to reduce your landscaping. So if you had to put 144 but you. you came in. you're like. I can only put in 50 square feet. You can go to zba or planning board for for relief for that too. So there's a. if you look at that by law. there's a few other things you could. we could potentially do. I am not advocating for different sides of different districts. because we. we don't truly have. like. a real village district. like the town of acting does they have real districts that have a real village feel to it. Thomas White: But yeah. I agree. I think it's like. it's. I used it as an example. but yeah. it's. you're hard pressed to sort of make a case that Wayland has these kind of unique. unique districts that would require it. maybe. Robert Hummel: But the town of Acton had it had a very. very detailed temporary sign program too. where for getting new businesses. you if you want to advertise your business. you would apply for up to 45 days a year where you put up a temporary sign. So if you're doing like. you know. sales and stuff. you could you would pick your days. what days you want to do. But that's really. getting really detail into this by law. But I think the whole point of this was to make this simple. but also allow for. honestly. a lot for temporary science. because people are just putting up temporary science for new businesses. And it's hard to. it's really hard to. we don't have the staffing to police them all the time. or to bug them all time. to take down the science. So I think internally right now. we're just like allowing it for the first three days. just because we know them. that they are new. and they want to attract new businesses and new. you know. to the to the location. But we gotta figure a way to govern that so that people can. we can kind of administrate that in the future. Anette Lewis: Robert. in what you have in five. oh. 2.4 with temporary signs no bigger than 10 square feet in display area. and the sign. any sign that moves or a banner. is prohibited. So the kinds of things that we've been seeing are essentially banners. They're like flag things. Robin Borgestedt: flappy things Robert Hummel: we don't want. We want. we don't want the any moves. So I'm thinking more of like a sandwich board. a five by two sandwich board. or a one of the signs you kind of push into the ground Anette Lewis: right with the sandwich board. And I can't remember where I read it in here. but you talk. Okay. it's right underneath it. a temporary sign. shall neither be erected on a sidewalk. walkway or driveway. nor within five feet from the sideline of a street or right of way customarily used by the general public. The sideline of the street. to most people. is where the pavement ends. and it's really the lot line. because they can't put their signs on the public way. you know. in the unpaved right of way? Unknown: Yep. correct.
Robin Borgestedt: It seems like we have a lot of those flapping signs that are more or less permanent in town right now. Unknown: Yeah. agree.
Where do you have those? I
Robin Borgestedt: think the landscaper in the center of town has had one up and somewhere else maybe. is it this the convenience store somebody else has one up also further along on route 20.
Anette Lewis: Is that something that you please snake. Or does somebody have to tell you about it? Or how does it work? If we Unknown: see it. we will take care of the situation. And then we receive phone calls occasionally. okay? And we go out and enforce that and pull signs or ask the Ask the individuals to remove them if they don't. We take it upon ourselves. The last one was at 27 in old con up on the hill. up in the granite landscaper. he did not remove it. so I climbed the wall and took it down.
So we will have quite a few signs. So. 112 112 to 116 Main Street is going to be all new signs coming up here soon. I know terrain is going to be applying soon for signage. Josh Fox did come in last week and had mentioned that are actually got some paperwork to for their signage. so we'll have some things to consider here in the near future. And for your purposes. Anette Lewis: aside from the things that we've already talked about. are there other things that would make your life easier? Unknown: I think that if it helps that. like Tom alluded to. that most of your national or your well put together organizations have their signage in place when they present their plans. and that's very helpful. So you get a full imagery of what they're presenting. and they have design teams. you know to present that. so that's very helpful. and then your smaller venues typically don't. and that's okay. because that's what makes the world go round. So I think that if someone's presenting a project or remodel for a building that they we should ask them to have the signage as part of the package
so we can see the full concept of what's going on. Anette Lewis: So would that be in the by law that we would say that? Or would that be in the zoning boards regulations? Unknown: I think you could put the bylaw sounds reasonable. Thomas White: You also might be able to. you also might be able to put it in the zoning application. Like. when someone comes in for a business use. like a business use special permit. it should be. like. automatic and where's your sign application as well. Like. because that way we could. you can hear them in in the same case. I don't know if that has to be in the by law. or if that could be. maybe it could be in the zba regulations. because that could be easy. That's easier to change. And then. you know. you could just accept those as as permit applications. I would say Robert Hummel: regulations. I would say you because you can't. you can't require someone to to in the pilot. to to that. So I think regulations would be easy to to know to Anette Lewis: do that. Yeah. even if they don't have the full color or the full font. knowing the approximate size is kind of helpful. I think. Unknown: yeah. I would agree. Ira. Larry. Jesse. Larry Kiernan: I have two questions. One is Tom or Nate. how do you think our signs compare to neighboring towns? I honestly don't have an opinion on that. The other question is.
have you gotten feedback that is harder or easier or difficult to get signs in Wayland versus other towns. Any feedback Unknown: from folks?
Thomas White: I haven't received any feedback on the zba that there are problems or complaints with the delays or challenges getting signed permits. Larry Kiernan: normally one or two meetings. Thomas White: It's normally one meeting. We've very rarely had someone come back with a second permit. You know. really send someone away with a continuance to come up with a revised design? Yeah. I think qualitatively. No. when I drive around. I mean. I don't study this. but when I drive through Sudbury. like or Natick or Wellesley. I don't think the signs that I see in businesses there are. like. you know. being necessarily better than the ones in Wayland. They don't seem. they don't really seem all that different. you know. because these kinds of communities generally have the same types of businesses. you know. supermarkets. small strip shopping centers with. you know. multi tenants. You know.
Unknown: in my opinion. I think that the. The predecessors in Wayland have done a good job. as far as review of signs and what's been in place. and it's. I don't see really anything as obtrusive. As far as signage. um. there's a couple that has slipped through the cracks that have just done new signs. Um. but for the most part. I think it's. I think Wayland is very tasteful. and there's nothing that really sticks out that I would say. you know. I don't like that. I mean. there's a couple on route 20 that I noticed. But for the most part. I think that everyone's done a good job. and. you know. can only make it a little bit better and and more fluid transition to to get his new sign. I have a couple questions. Larry. you done? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Yeah. Unless I'm missing something here. all we seem to be talking about is that size of the sign. or how many signs there can be on the building. What I'm missing is is. how do you approve the design if there aren't specific design criteria. like size. font size. you know. what? A palette of background color. you know. we have the lighting. I don't hear any how. And some of you say. with an application comes in. of course. you take the tape measure to it. That's okay. but you're also talking about approving. It sounds like you're talking about the esthetics of does this sign fit into the community and yet. who's to guide them. except for their own personal taste.
Thomas White: that's challenging. For example. if Jersey Mike's has a standard sign that is. that is the same that every one of their locations. we can't. as a community. say. you know. you you can't. You have to use. like. our predetermined background colors. font size. etc. because the sign is part of the corporate brand. So I think that would be a very unfriendly way to proceed Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: with it. Maybe so. But I know on the cape. and in other situations. McDonald's. for example. they have not allowed them to use the arches with their. you know. backlit that they've required. You know. I if I remember the logos there. the typeface is there. but it's either. you know. Thomas White: I again. not an expert in it. but I believe I'm familiar with places that have done that. I believe. though those are specific kind of already legislated historic districts. you know. where I think that that. I think there has to be some other underlying legal structure in place that I think would allow that type of Unknown: regulation. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: We should look into that. because I don't remember them that way. I remember them more like
strip mall. Of course not. But. you know. a number of different stores lined together that were in. what a more rural. or more. you know. I remember them being down on the Cape. where you kind of have these little. semi little malls. and they've required them to have all of those signs unified. but Robin Borgestedt: they could be roads that are designated scenic or something like that. They don't seem scenic anymore. but they may have been scenic roads or something Robert Hummel: possibly I still. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I know we had a conversation about the Dunkin Donuts at one point. and we had talked about somehow making them or suggesting to them that they don't use that logo. I mean. I think that's Anette Lewis: I agree. Again. I'm just looking at our bylaw for special permits. and it's taken exactly from the state bylaw. And at 198 203. it says. For a special permit. the applicant shall show to the satisfaction of the special permit granting authority that the use building or structure for which the application is made shall not be against the public interest. shall not derogate from the character of the neighborhood in which such use building or structure is to occur and shall not be detrimental or offensive because of noise. vibration. smoke. gas. fumes. odor. dust or other objectionable features. and that such use building or structure shall not otherwise be injurious to the inhabitants of the town or their property. or dangerous to the public health or safety. and I don't know for a fact. but I think that that's what they're using. because there are many places that won't let you use your corporate Unknown: logo kind of thing. right? Yeah.
William Sterling: Yeah. one in free Point Main a McDonald's is famous because they. McDonald's tried to sue them and lost. McDonald's has this little. teeny little. you know. McDonald's name on the side of the building. and that's all you got. Robert Hummel: Yeah. there's a really. there's a really cool one McDonald's. and I believe. is Arizona. It's. instead of a yellow local. is a turquoise blue. and it blends in with it. It blends in with the rest of the year in Arizona. It's really. really unique. But those. I mean. those are very extreme cases where there's very unusual cases. This thing like design islands already built in. and then Madonna's comes in and wants to do it so but Robin Borgestedt: sort of. that's one of my concerns. If we take out the prohibition on backlighting. because there are. there are backlight backlit signs that are offensive. and that would derogate the character. and maybe the jersey Mike sign is less. less of an affront. but William Sterling: I agree with you. Robin. yeah. the backlighting is fine. I think internally illuminated plastic signs. though. are still objectionable. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. so we have some language to to define that if we're going to take out the prohibition on internal lighting. You know. internal lighting. it doesn't shine through. How do we how do we say that? William Sterling: That's how I said it to them. I said. if it's the material is translucent. then it's not allowed. If it's opaque. then it's basically you're backlighting it.
Unknown: We could talk about backlighting. That's it. William Sterling: That's a sentence you need right there. Thomas White: Yeah. it could be the sentence an Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: example. Bill of what you're talking about.
William Sterling: An example of what I'm talking about would be. well. you were just talking about the one that just. is it? Duncan is putting in backlighting signage for their
Unknown: for their signs. and they allot it right. Tom. yeah. William Sterling: and the an example of an internally illuminated plastic sign. jeez. Anette Lewis: Lim. but like a mobile gas station sign. yeah. those William Sterling: are classic. That's a clean thing. and that's a very good example. The logo itself is a big plastic glob of blowing up. Yeah.
Thomas White: I am going to run out of time. I've got a gonna have to sign off in just a couple of minutes. But this has been a great discussion. We should probably aim to have a. you know. maybe set up something like this on a quarterly basis to kind of go through it doesn't necessarily just have to be on the signs. because there are a couple of other there's always some inconsistencies that we encounter in the by law. I would just say that that. if this group is looking at it. we've had several challenges recently with garages and side yards and sheds. there are some extremely conflicting languages in contained in the yards component of the by law one that we actually had to escalate up to town council for an application that we had. and she She gave us some great feedback and pointed out that. yes. there are some glaring like. legal inconsistencies. Anette Lewis: Can you share that with Robert and he can share it with Thomas White: Yes. I actually. I think. I think I had shared this one with Nathan and with Michael McCall. But yes. like. I can forward the email exchange with. with Carolyn Murray on. on some specific quirky problems we had with interplay between 401 point 1.2 and I think 703 on the yards. so. And. you know. there's always come up. you know. because people only come to the zba because they need to do something unusual. right? So I recognize that. like. we're the venue for the unusual projects. like no matter what. so it can't all be standard. So and then we're comfortable with that. We're that's what we're used to. But when. when we have when the bottom points us in two different directions. we sometimes struggle to accommodate what people are looking to do. And generally. most of the applications we get right. Are homeowners looking to do something like. I need to move my garage a foot closer. I need to do a screen porch. And. you know. we want to help these people. but sometimes the bylaw points us in kind of differing directions. And I think just some simple sentences could be cleaned up. but yeah. I'll. I can share that with Robert the. The exchange that I had with with Copeland and page several months ago. Anette Lewis: And if you want to set up sometimes and work it out with your board. yeah. we can just put it in the agenda. And I think that would be great idea. Thomas White: Yeah. I think it'd be. I think it'd be a wonderful idea. Because. as I said. we have some. we always have some quirky stuff. Anette Lewis: Can while you're here. though. can I just ask you a question? Um. I personally have had trouble reading the site plan. regular bylaw. Have you guys had issues with it? Unknown: Um. only. in as much as it's not. Thomas White: it's kind of worded. very convoluted as to who has the who is supposed to approve it. Sometimes we literally will spend 10 minutes in the meeting. I don't think you need to be here. I think you're supposed to be at the planning board. Because if this. if that. if this. if that. Anette Lewis: but also that whole first section about if you're this size. you're this. if you're that. so you're this. if you're this. and then if you've got parking. you're this. and it's very confusing. Thomas White: Yeah. I would agree. You know. yeah. it is. it is. It can be challenging just to figure all we're looking for is to make sure they're in the right regulatory venue and we're not accidentally taking on a case that we either shouldn't. we don't have the authority to. or we're sort of applying like the wrong provision of the bylaw. because the venue is not not the exact right Unknown: one. right? Okay. well. on that too. Thank you and Bill. do you want? Do you want to thanks. thanks. Thanks. Anette Lewis: You have other things that you want to talk about. William Sterling: Well. of course. I can tear up all your night with all kinds of things. but no. I think that we've discussed enough for one sitting. and I'm sure you have other things you need to get on to. Unknown: So Okay. terrific. Anette Lewis: Thank you so much. Anyone else have questions for Bill? Thank you for coming and thank you Nate very much for Unknown: joining as my first Planning Board meeting. It's been very. very fun. Anette Lewis: Well. you can come anytime.
Larry Kiernan: Thank you. All right. Good evening. Unknown: Thank you. In the signage Anette Lewis: bylaw. Robert. I have like. a gazillion comments. not just because of the changes you've made. but things that I see that have been in place forever. that are just Unknown: weird and hard to read. Anette Lewis: What do you think the best way and maybe others do too. I don't know. Do you guys have specific comments on what Robert shared with us? Robin Borgestedt: I was sort of waiting till tonight. Okay. no. that's fine. Unknown: I think you should pull up the commented version. Maybe we give it a look. Robin Borgestedt: Or do we circulate it now that we've listened to them and heard what they have? Jesse Newberry: Yeah. that's actually that's probably a better idea. Robin. Robert Hummel: yeah. just. I would just send the comments to me. and I can make a master list Unknown: of of it. Okay? Robert Hummel: I think. I think I worked on this a few months ago. So this is not the dates in my since September 4. but I because there's the more July. July main main notes to Anette Lewis: this. right? And some of the comments aren't really with your changes. They're with what's there already. yeah. Robert Hummel: in place. in one round of comments and and there wasn't. didn't like. keep digging into it. Anette Lewis: right? And for in one place you talked about commercial businesses. I wasn't sure if that was I don't think it's a defined term. and I wasn't sure if it was necessarily appropriate just for businesses. And there's another place where the bylaw. as written. refers to a state law that makes absolutely no sense. It refers to mgL 180 sections two and four. And 180 is creation of charitable and other corporations. and two is definitions. and four just lists. Who can be that kind of a court? What you can do if you're a corporation? So I'm not sure what they're trying to do. I can try and guess. but I don't think that we should leave something like that.
Unknown: It's in our section. pardon me. Anette Lewis: yeah. it's in your 501. Point. New three. Unknown: It's the very last line.
Anette Lewis: it says that you can have signs for any purposes that are set forth in the corporate section. And that's sort of weird. because. if not purposes there. what they're saying is you can create a corporation to do a B. C. D. E.
Unknown: So what they were trying to Robert Hummel: say was. Texas. it's in the existing today. Anette Lewis: yeah. I guess in the existing today. Oh. the Is this the Robert Hummel: NGO 180 Yeah. Robin Borgestedt: more sort of tacked on a sentence about religious celebration. signs. weird or devices that have been installed or erected pursuant to a special permit. Yeah. I
Robert Hummel: didn't know. I didn't really look into it. but yeah. that should probably be deleted. It's weird.
Anette Lewis: Um. okay. so we can get um comments to you. I'll send you mine in track changes. and they'll be mostly questions. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I think. Anette Lewis: And again. it's not your stuff. It's what's there already? Robert Hummel: No. it's this pilot is. should I retrieve and fix like years ago? Anette Lewis: Yeah. and I'll look at the one that we came up with a number of years ago and see if Unknown: it looks useful.
Anette Lewis: Has anybody looked at the site plan approval by Unknown: law. the little Jesse Newberry: bit in my ground mounted solar research. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: revise that a number of years ago.
Unknown: no site approval. Anette Lewis: We just added a section that makes it even more confusing. We added.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: then let's change and take that out. We're done no Anette Lewis: that one made sense in the context that we did it in. It's just when you start reading. are you subject to site plan approval? Unknown: There are Anette Lewis: essentially. I think. three different places that you have to go to to see if you're subject to site plan approval. One of the first is.
Unknown: let's see.
Anette Lewis: you have to fit into different size categories. That's one thing. Then there's a thing that talks about number of parking spaces. and you have to answer yes and no and no and yes. and then you wind up with this thing at the end. and it seems like you shouldn't have had to go through all that. You should have been able to just say. Yep. I'm going to be subject to Site Plan Review. rather than having this four pages of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth when it probably can be condensed into something more easily understandable. and then you would know which board you had to go to. whether it was the planning board or the zoning board. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. you've got. like. an applicability section and then a Administration section.
Anette Lewis: But even the applicability section is pretty tough using Yeah. I had to do it with the salt shed when I was a road Commissioner. and we were doing the salt shed. and I had to read this. and I just went. Holy cow. And it took me forever. because I had to go through all the steps. even though some of them really weren't even applicable. yeah. Unknown: And then you've got. like. a communication section. or. like. how to how to interact with the town. And then you get into the actual application itself. right. who it needs to go to. and then another on what you need to put in there. And then another on the planning board. Procedures separately. Anette Lewis: yeah. and we have. I think. also regulations for site plan. So I don't know if we're ready to tackle it this year. but I would hope that people will think about it and think about how we might try and simplify it.
Unknown: all of us. including Robert.
Anette Lewis: Robert. do you want to do the ground mounted next or the housekeeping? Robert Hummel: Let's do housekeeping. because I can quickly discuss it. but it's not like a lot of the house giving. So I started off with housekeeping on the page. I started housekeeping. There's things I noticed that need be fixed. And then we got a me Anette got a humongous packet of information from town council. from E code. saying. These are the things that areas that the town should look at in the next few years to change or or modify or make no changes. So they just kind of from the town clerk. right? Not from Clark. but it came from E code. E code came of it so. but some are are valid. like some say. D. H. D. So on the first page. It should be changed to elocative Office of Housing liberal communities. So like how to go a whole about each change based on that and when. for all the changes. what we tackle this year and what changes. when can we tackle another year? And site plan was part of that. that one of those suggested changes. but it's too much to change right now. but then also. some of it has to do with zba too. and the first page with
Unknown: clarifying what Robert Hummel: variances and what what you can get a variance for. So there are other scenarios in this. in this nine page document. But a lot of the changes proposed changes have to do changes that were suggested. It is I did spend a lot of time. like. just some silly by the code people. Yeah. So. like. a lot of changes are just very silly changes. like changing the unlike wireless communication system changing into electric transmissions towers. like just some really. really silly changes. They're like. it just
Anette Lewis: need to be made because they conform to the other definitions and things. yeah. yeah. Robert Hummel: And just like. delete definitions that. like. were like. we don't in some sections already had the definition for his town and zba. like. you don't need to repeat it over again. That's it. It kind of felt like someone added definitions in and then didn't. Can cross reference over the years to make sure. like. oh. I don't have to use word DEP. They don't define zba in this section. It's already defined in the original definition section. It's just. like. Unknown: a lot of just overkill. but Robert Hummel: it and like mass housing. like things that just change over time. Eloc and just a lot is just just silly changes that are just Unknown: very silly. Robert Hummel: And then the things were like. we have the section where in the mixes overlay. where the underlying zoning district never went away. and we never bothered it to modify that. So like just getting rid of the underlying limited commercial district and and getting rid of it once for all. so it's over. So I don't want to burden you by going through this one by one. I think better if members of the board just kind of go for and if they have any comments on this. but I'll. you know. some of its marijuana was spelled wrong. like just. Ma. just fixing silly mistakes. And I keep saying it's. it's. and we don't. We can tackle some of this this year. We can say. you know. we said. oh. let's just do on all of this. But let's get. let's get the silly ones other way. E lock in and fix those. You know this. this document can be things can be taken out and put into another document for years in the future. like it doesn't have everything has to be done today. this this year. if you don't want Anette Lewis: to. but we should probably do the most important and then lump things together that are of a similar nature. maybe. Robert Hummel: yeah. I mean. I just said. sort of by by Article One to article right? Whatever it is. this is just the way it is easy to display. right? Anette Lewis: A suggestion on. how about you know. what should go first and. and. is there like a theme that we can use this theme next year? Robin Borgestedt: I wonder if it helps. If Robert goes through and sort of color codes them with highlighting. you know. the the green ones are the ones that we really need to do. and they should be simple. The yellow ones are things that. you know it would be helpful to do. and the red ones are ones that we can defer. or the opposite way around. if we can color code kind of what has to get done. what would be nice and what we should look at and think about in the future. I don't know. Robert Hummel: Yeah. I do you let me do I can go back and just and we kind of recover them and then send it back out. Green. Green is like no brainers. yellows. maybe about this. and then red. like you Anette Lewis: don't have to do it right now. Why don't you wait? Oh no. not right now. But I'll send it Unknown: out. and we give you comments. yeah. yeah. Robert Hummel: I'll send it out. I'll color it and reset it out. And so it's a little easier to understand.
Unknown: So that's housekeeping. I mean. Robert Hummel: it started out as like. two pages. three pages. and then it went down to. like. now nine. because we've always potential changes Unknown: that need to be done so.
Robert Hummel: and I believe Jesse worked on the ground mounting. So I. And for that on the on that page for him. if you like. Unknown: Yep. that sounds great. Yeah. So. I mean. Jesse Newberry: this is all new. right? And Robin sent a version over that has a bunch of comments on it that I think are all really good comments. I don't know if anybody else has comments since they had a chance to review it after last week's meeting.
Robert Hummel: I don't think I got a copy of that. that email and document. Robin Borgestedt: No. I meant to send it to you. and somehow it only went to Jesse. I meant to send it only to you. but it was just so that he'd have my comments after the meeting today. because I figured we'll discuss them all. so Larry Kiernan: I didn't review them. but I did watch a bunch of videos on how to set up your own 10 kilowatt solar system and 250 watts. So awesome. I need pictures and you know. a little explanation. It was quite interesting. Jesse Newberry: So how like? So when you were watching that. how big were the 10 kilowatt ones? Because. I mean. we Larry Kiernan: have 10 kilowatt is like the ones you see around town. The one I saw was 8.8 Unknown: but it's probably
Larry Kiernan: 30 feet by 10 feet. or 40 feet by 10 feet. could be in MA two slaps. but yeah. it was not trivial. kind of like a big shed in your backyard. What was interesting was. when you connected to your house. he had batteries. He was trying to be able to run his house on it. Explain very detailed. that you can't run a typical house on 10 kilowatts. you gotta really conserve what you use. But he had a room set up for the battery and the converter like its own shed. and he air conditioned the shed. Jesse Newberry: and defeats the purpose of the solar panels
wild. Larry Kiernan: It made me wonder what heat is being generated by he bought computers Jesse Newberry: from the batteries in the inverter. Maybe the Larry Kiernan: there was the batteries. the converter. and there was two computers that he. I call them computers that he used to manage the payload.
Unknown: So maybe Larry Kiernan: that's more complicated than normal. But anyway. so and 250 kilowatts is huge. huge. Jesse Newberry: yeah. gigantic. yeah. it's huge. yeah. yeah. Larry Kiernan: it's a Jesse Newberry: farm. yeah. yeah. yeah. yeah. And then that's why I kind of did that. that way. with the small. medium. large in that divided up by. like. you know. the kilowatt capacity. Larry Kiernan: And he did the 8.8 kilowatts himself. Unknown: It's 20 grand. Yeah. Anette Lewis: so Jesse with these numbers. if were we able to check those with the energy people or Unknown: No. not yet. Jesse Newberry: not yet. I didn't get a chance to do that. Okay? I did end up sending to Abigail. but of course. I didn't hear back. Unknown: Yeah. I can shakes. Robert Hummel: And you do know that she's that she's losing. yeah? Jesse Newberry: We heard that last meeting. Yes. So yeah. Robert. do you have another contact yet? Robert Hummel: I send you. I send you Olivia's contact information. Jesse Newberry: Okay. I was curious what that was. Yeah. I was gonna ask you Robert Hummel: about that. Thank you. Oh. that was. yeah. I thought that. yeah. Jesse Newberry: I didn't get the context. But Unknown: I was watching. I was watching a Robert Hummel: tape. and since it says Robert. we'll send. we'll send Jesse the information. Unknown: Okay. thank you. Thank you. So. yeah. I'll. I'll. I'll reach out. Jesse Newberry: And then I think. in the meantime. if everybody's got this doc. you know. go. go through it and add your thoughts. please. And then we'll. um. we'll come back with a version with everyone's comments in it and kind of talk it through. Robin Borgestedt: Do you have any questions about my comments? Jessa. no. Jesse Newberry: I think they were all like you pointed out some really good things. Robin. and things that I think we need to define a little bit better. For sure. Anette Lewis: you want to share those with us so that we have them in our heads as we're doing our own comments. Unknown: Yes. yep. So Robin Borgestedt: I'm just going to run through them quickly from the top to the bottom. In the very the first definition of ground mounted solar. it says ancillary equipment. And I added in other than the battery. energy storage system. because that has its own definition section with respect to the canopy and carport in the definition and elsewhere in the bylaw. we have to find a way to if canopies and carports are not allowed. I mean. well. they are allowed. but not as ground mounted solar. They have their own different right. So we have to find a way to differentiate that. Because if you can have this thing 12 feet high. you could park your car under it. or you could put a picnic table under it. And so then. when is it a carport? And when is it not a carport? When is it a canopy and not a canopy? You know. are you not allowed to park a car underneath it? So. yeah. so that I think isn't it Anette Lewis: is. does the state one deal with that? Jesse. do you know? Unknown: I will look this up now. Okay. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: But if one is regulated one way. and one's regulated another way. that we have to define where that line is in the definition section. Do we need to define what a kilowatt is and the AC? Because for a homeowner. they may not know exactly what that is if they're just starting to research this. So maybe we have to put a definition in. But then also. who gets to define if you're under 10 or if you're over 250 is it just. you know. the manufacturer's specifications. or Jesse Newberry: that's what I was thinking it would be. because. right. they're all going to get more efficient over time. So it's. it's. yeah. should be with the manufacturer. Robin Borgestedt: So we might need to specify who gets to say whether you're under 10 or over 250. or where you are on that
then on the article seven. going down number four. it says. after the adoption of this chapter. I think it should say by law. And then once you've put battery. energy storage system. and put the abbreviation best. You don't need to keep saying it. Jesse Newberry: yeah. thank you.
Robin Borgestedt: In the next session. the zoning district and use representations. One place you said and best. and the other one said it was and their best. So I just they should be the same. and then prohibited area. Should say all solar Institute installations and best are prohibited within the wetlands resources. again. the next thing. dimensional standards. that height thing just running into that canopy. carport thing
in setbacks. I think we should make it clear that all applicants have to meet all set back standards. regardless of the size and permit type. It's not something you get a variance on. It's not something you get waived. You have to be outside of the setback area. Don't even ask. I don't know. that's what I think. but maybe other people agree. Unknown: Disagree. Yep. Robin Borgestedt: And then in terms of the lot coverage section. it says they may cover up to 40% of the lot area. The applicant must demonstrate adequate previous surface blah. blah. blah for the medium and the large scale installations. I think they should have to demonstrate through expert analysis. We should be specific about how they demonstrate that. For smalls. it's not it's not that language isn't in there. but both medium and large say they have to demonstrate something. and we should require that it be through expert analysis. vegetative buffering. It's 10 feet wide. We discussed this at the last meeting. yeah. To me. wide means. you know. if you're looking at a fence. it's the width of the fence from as you're facing it. And I think we're really talking about the depth of the buffer. Yeah. So I don't know if there's a different word for that. but to me it seems like depth. I think Anette Lewis: something in the the
Unknown: MBTA zoning Anette Lewis: dealing with that kind of a buffer. there might be language in there. Unknown: Okay. yeah. I'll give that Larry Kiernan: a look. Question on the coverage. so is that corner to corner? So if you've got four of these things up. it's the furthest corner to the furthest corner. or is it literally looking down at it saying because these are all tilted right. so they may move. Fly. but it may be six feet of coverage as an example. Robin Borgestedt: right? So is it as the bird flies. right? Some Unknown: of them do move. so Anette Lewis: you would have to explain it. It's full. Unknown: yeah. horizontal depth or vertical. yeah? Larry Kiernan: They don't go beyond a certain angle. So I think we talked about this before. Is it the furthest corner of the whole thing? Because I'm a fine with the small but with the medium and large. I assume people doing these are hovering just through. just installing these things. I mean. you're not put in an apple orchard or something. So 40% may turn folks away. Why Why can't I do 100% within boundaries?
Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I think we say special permit on the large ones. but we don't say it on the on the medium scale.
Unknown: right? I Robin Borgestedt: think for the medium. we're assuming it's on a residential lot with a house there. And because if it weren't. you would do large scale. I would think so. Unknown: I don't know. 250 is huge. Yeah. yep. that have Larry Kiernan: to be seven. eight acres. You know. you've got your house. your driveway and your but 40% came from where Jesse. I think. Unknown: was borrowed from one of the other towns. Larry Kiernan: I assume we define the coverage
Jesse Newberry: area. yeah. so that's up further up top. It's between. so it's between one acre and five less than five acres
Unknown: page. and then large is anything over five acres. yeah. but Larry Kiernan: I'm sorry I'm missing the coverage. If I have a house and it's got 20 by 20. I know that's 400 square feet of you know that needs to be managed for water. How does it work with a 20 by 20 solar panel Anette Lewis: if you're doing it on a residential lot and there's a house there already. I haven't I haven't thought it through in reading what Jesse has. but I would think that it would be the lot coverage for structures. and that's. I believe. 20% of the lot. and you can't have more than 20% of the lot covered. Larry Kiernan: I'm wondering. do we count that as 400 square feet or something less. because they're tilted.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I I think you're going to go crazy with this tilted thing. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I'm thinking. you want to do it more footprint. if you could. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: If you're talking about tilted. I would almost say that it's the footprint. like. let's say the going straight up. You know. what is? It's almost like. what is the shade of that whole unit? And call that the measurement of it. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. but you can't call that the footprint. because the footprint may be just the concrete right pad that has a leg on it. because they're generally a small ones on. like. a big on a post kind of thing. right? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: So. so would you have it like. if it was completely vertical. and then. like a TV set. and then Robert Hummel: measure that. So the height should probably Jesse Newberry: be vertical at the highest point. yeah. yeah. yeah. And then the footprint should probably be measured with it. you know. horizontal. Unknown: yeah. not the footprint. Anette Lewis: but the span Robin Borgestedt: area. the area of the panel area. yeah. right. right. Well. that's kind of regardless of the angle it's at. Unknown: yeah. Jesse Newberry: I think we can make that come across in the language here. Yep.
Unknown: should I keep going? Yeah. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: you should. So performance standards. we've got glare and noise and and talking about needing to do analysis. and we had talked at the last meeting about trying to make this less intrusive for a small applicant. So do we want to have different standards for what that analysis looks Yeah. when it's a small person. a small applicant. can they use the manufacturer specifications and medium and large requires expert analysis? Jesse Newberry: Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think I got that in the stuff further down. but not necessarily for this one. Yeah. a little easier for the small Yep. So. yeah. we can. we can address that too. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. And number three and number five. which are trails and wildlife and vegetation and pollinators. You know. who decides that is it? Is it the planning board. or is it ConCom? Because it's really a little outside of our wheelhouse. so it should have to go to ConCom for both of those when. when it's invoked. Jesse Newberry: I suppose we should talk to ConCom about that first before we try to put that in here. Anette Lewis: Herbicides are already prohibited under our bylaw. I believe we have a bylaw on herbicides. and probably look at that. and even with saying that we can't put it in wetlands. Unknown: is that our bailiwick to say that Anette Lewis: isn't that really more up to conservation if somebody for utilities. for example. you can do lots of work in wetlands. and you have to put down. What do you call it? Not raffia. but there's a woven mat. barrier material. not even a barrier. woven mat that you put down. and then you can ride across it and do what you need to do. And and somebody could claim that this is a utility.
Jesse Newberry: I think. I think I do think just having ConCom look at the whole thing is probably great idea. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. and number four. that drainage and stormwater management again. do we want to create a different standard for small versus medium and large. and then seven. oh. 7.5 which is the application requirements. And it says right in this sort of subheading. applicants. applications for site plan review or special permits. And then number one. three and five all have sections that are about small scale. So small scale is by right. and so they they shouldn't be in here for in this section about site plan reviews and special permits. they should have their own section for applications. so that it's more clear and they're separated out.
Unknown: And then Robin Borgestedt: number four talks about cessation. there should be some provision that the the owner has to notify the town when they've when they've ceased operation of this array.
then the battery storage systems talking about when it's active and on site. Blah. blah We have. it has to comply with fire codes. It should probably also have say building codes. because some of these are actually in a structure Jesse Newberry: to Larry's point with air conditioning. right? So. Robin Borgestedt: And then number four there talks about a typical utility infrastructure. And again. how is typical defined? How is it measured. and how is it certified? So and then in that last site plan review and permit findings. there's some language there about disturbance of wetlands. wildlife habitat. again and again. yeah. we have to see what. how we're going to do that. So those were my comments. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. no. they were all good. I guess. um. for the site plan section. Do we think. like. I should address the small installations above that in like. its own little spot for buy right applications? Yeah? Or do I just take it out. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. I think it should have its own section for buy. right. so that the building department has their marching orders as well. Yeah. okay. Jesse Newberry: all right. that's what I'll that's what I'll Anette Lewis: try to do there. Jesse in seven. Oh. 7.4 number one. the noise standard. Yeah. what? What is 130? Unknown: 9.2 what's Jesse Newberry: the it's basically just like. don't make too much noise in your yard. right? Robin Borgestedt: I thought you were gonna ask him to demonstrate with a yellow Anette Lewis: I think it's 198 then dash. But Jesse Newberry: I went looking for anything that talked about noise in a yard. And that's. that's right. Anette Lewis: And our state standards at the DEP on noise regulations. and I believe it says 55 dB at the boundary. So you might look at those and incorporate at least that reference to that section. or as as provided by the DEP. or something like that makes sense. Yeah. we don't for noise. We don't have good bylaw. Unknown: And every time we tried to do it. people have found that out. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: with one question. one issue with doing 55 decibels at the boundary for small applicants. that would be very difficult for them. To know if they're just using manufacturer specifications. So we may. Anette Lewis: yeah. it would be illegal anyway. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: law. right. So. but the small ones. if we do have a guideline. it could just say according to the manufacturer specifications. Anette Lewis: and DEP is requirement. because. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. well. we can use DEP is requirement. but instead of having them measure it at the boundary. they can measure it at the machinery where it's according to manufacturer specifications. Anette Lewis: no standard. Is the state standard. Robin Borgestedt: Okay? So that'll be difficult for a homeowner to assess what the noise level is at the boundary. Anette Lewis: If it's small. it shouldn't even get. yeah. I Jesse Newberry: mean. maybe it. maybe it should have a separate. Unknown: yeah. separate item for small. Jesse Newberry: What we're really Anette Lewis: concerned with 55 is. is high. okay? I mean. it's not insignificant. Unknown: yep. What is the set? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: What is the noise you're talking about. the buzzing of the transformer someplace. Anette Lewis: It could be buzzing. Could be inverter arms. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: Could be the noise of the panels moving. you know. a motor like that. Anette Lewis: Okay. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I'm stuck on the size thing. If we can go back two seconds. what. what size. and if you're going to buy one of these things. does the manufacturer describe and do they say anything? You know. five by seven as measured by that kind of a thing or not? Jesse Newberry: It's really varied. IRA. unfortunately. I'm Robin Borgestedt: sure they provide a surface area of the panel. though. it Jesse Newberry: because a lot of it depends on. like. how efficient the panels are and what the and what the installation is going to give you. So. like. you can spend a ton of money and have a real small area and generate 10 kilowatts. or you can spend less money and have a larger area and still get 10 kilowatts.
Anette Lewis: And it depends on whether there are trees around or not trees. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. a lot of variables. right? And so that's why these towns haven't they. like. some of them haven't defined square footage or anything like that. They're just doing it like this. where. like. if you're less than an acre of land and your capacity is less than 10 kilowatts. here's your guidelines. Robin Borgestedt: Oh. but we have to have size. A way to measure size for our surface area requirements. right? And that's just the surface area of the panel it sounds like. Jesse Newberry: And that gets into the the Unknown: yard section below that. Jesse Newberry: And like I said before. I think we can do a better job of defining what the what the actual. like measured area should be. Unknown: So I'll try to get that in there too. This is great. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Jesse. yeah. it is really great. I'm just wondering. is there a peer review in the sense that someone who has. who installs these things that might have Jesse Newberry: an I would really like that. Ira.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: you're falling short of the one the work you've done. What's the wrong way he Anette Lewis: keeps trying to get the person who knows the most about this involved. and she's leaving so she's not getting involved. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I mean. if we have to escalate up. or if we wanted to get somebody. even at the state level. to look at this from like. you know. DEP. or whoever. or energy. I should say we could probably do that too. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I'm just saying. And even thinking about a company that installs this stuff to have them come in for. you know. a quick overview. And so what kind of things do you run into. and that kind of stuff. that's all. Jesse Newberry: yeah. not a it's not a bad idea. Anette Lewis: And the Energy Committee has that kind of contact. and there are people on the Energy Committee who do this kind of installation. Unknown: Oh. great. perfect. Yeah. I think we should do that. See. do you want to reach out to them? Jesse Newberry: Jesse. yeah. by no means. Am I an expert in this area. but I would love their. yeah. expert opinion anyway. So. yeah. I'll reach out. Great.
Anette Lewis: Ira and not Ira Larry and Robert for this year. Do we have to do anything for the flood plain stuff Unknown: with the Conservation Commission? Larry Kiernan: I have not heard back from them from our last discussion. Robert. have you heard anything on I haven't Robert Hummel: heard of any changes at this time. Unknown: I think that. Anette Lewis: I think that the two of you somehow need to. Follow up and get specific instructions from Linda of what we have to do. Because my understanding was. and this isn't dealing with the 193 necessarily regulations. It's dealing with the federal flood plain stuff they made. They did something. Maybe it was in the 193 regulations. I can't remember where they did it. and they just put stuff in. And we had seen from somebody at the state what we had to have in a bylaw. and some of the stuff that they said is already in our bylaws. just not in one place. because we would do definitions in one place in our bylaw. and then we would have a separate section that dealt with the implementation. and they had all this stuff crammed together. So if we need to figure out what we have to do. then we should so that we don't wind up losing the ability to have homeowners get the flood plain insurance. I'll double check. Yeah. you're going to need to push to make sure that we really understand exactly what we have to do. And then. between you and Larry. if you could work on it. that would be great. Unknown: Yep. yeah.
Anette Lewis: Is there anything else that anyone wants to talk about of a zoning
as we work our way through these when we're doing projects. you will find places where you can't understand what the by law says. So write them down. make sure we all talk about them. But I don't think we're technically able to do a total rewrite. because I don't think people would accept it. We did do a sort of rewrite a few years ago. but it wasn't. It actually created some more problems that I've come across that don't make sense. And somehow. maybe section by section. over time. we can get it into something that you could read easily. that the public could handle and not make it so difficult for people.
Unknown: Okay? Robert. updates. You want me to explain over amendment Robert Hummel: stuff? Yeah. So you have two applications. Next actually. next meeting. next month. tomorrow. 15. So buckle in. because it's me. It's me. A really fun meeting. You take that right now. just based on now the comments are getting in. So a refresher. the Dover Moon we're talking about. the board can can reasonably regulate the bulk the height of the structures. the yard size. lot of area setbacks. open space. parking and building coverage. So we just would remember. we're just talking about the things that we can regular. reasonably regulate. We're not talking about the use. We're not talking about. does it fit in neighborhood? All that stuff that doesn't. that doesn't play a part in here. So under Section 63 there's it talks about the areas where we can look at so we can look at the bulk and the height of the proposed structures and session accessory structures. the open space. the building coverage. the site. the yard size. the physical layout. the structures. driveway. parking areas. utilities and other infrastructure. and then the accuracy of the original parking loading area relations to the proposed use Unknown: on the site. So I will Robert Hummel: most likely do refresher that again at the meeting. and I will put that into both memos for both projects for the 15th. and I'm still going through the both applications and reviewing them with a fine call and trying to explain or get more answers done before the 15th occurs Unknown: from the applicant. For the applicant. Robin Borgestedt: yes. with with regard to height. Can Can you explain how you know. we can review height. But how does that? How does the Belmont case
Unknown: change that Robert Hummel: on. I think that case. they allowed it because. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. so the town was not allowed to limit the height of the steeple. But is it? Does it depend on whether there's sort of occupancy dirt in that area where the height is. or does it not. or Unknown: doesn't that? We have to go back. shaking your head. Can you tell us? Anette noi. Something. Anette Lewis: I can tell you what I thought the decision said. but I think it's a little different than what I thought. My recollection at the time that it happened was Unknown: that you can't limit the height Anette Lewis: just to match what you've got in your bylaw. They can go higher than that as long as. and this is the part that I'm not sure is correct. I thought it was as long as there was really a religious type of reason that you needed to reach up to the sky. You needed whatever. Unknown: if. for example. Anette Lewis: you needed fire suppression and you couldn't do it because it was too high and you did no way of getting at it. I think that's a reasonable regulation. Okay. so it's not that we're totally prohibited. but we have to be reasonable. and it has to be not conflicting with their religious practices. okay? Robin Borgestedt: Because I know from the Design Review Board meeting that we had that that's an area where we should be prepared to.
Unknown: I don't know. address questions. and we should be prepared to. yeah. do many questions? Yeah. at some point. is it worth Robin Borgestedt: maybe not now. but at some point. is it worth the board having preparing comments or an article to go in the newspaper about what the Dover amendment does and doesn't allow us to do Anette Lewis: I don't think we need to do that. I think the newspaper will do it. yeah. and we will begin the first hearing with an explanation of what the Dover amendment is under state law. what we have in our bylaws. Then my proposal would be to open it up to the applicant to do the presentation. because we have two of these on the same night. then board questions and then public questions. okay. Unknown: but I mean. What I did for the Anette Lewis: Veritas was at each meeting. I said. this is what we can control this just so that it's out there each time. right? And Robert. when he puts together the document for us. he's going to have the language of the statute. the language of the bylaw. And then for each of the things that we're able to regulate. he's going to have them on the chart. And then what our standards are in the bylaw. so that at least we have a good match. And then what. what the applicant is proposing is it doesn't meet it. Does it not meet it. so that we have something clear in front of us as we're trying to make the decisions. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. I just feel like it would be helpful in terms of. I don't want to say. reigning in. but focusing public comment if we do see something in the in the in the Wayland post. that will help Unknown: understand Anette Lewis: what I can call the Wayland post. If they do it. I'm sure they're following Robin Borgestedt: it. yeah. and make sure they attend the meeting. And they can ask for the minutes afterwards. or the. you know. watch the recording and make sure that they are Unknown: just my sense. okay. yeah. no. I think so too.
Anette Lewis: Um. and we did the peer review stuff. um. are there any comments and concerns of the board?
Unknown: Okay. anything else Anette Lewis: at our next meeting. we've got the the two applications. the Coptic Orthodox Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Church and the Carroll School. and hopefully Two sets of minutes for 910. Unknown: and right and 917. 17.
Larry Kiernan: Number one. you think we'll get the applications? We have them. Unknown: They're online. online. Robert Hummel: If you want. please take heart. If you want any Harcourt plants. please take them. Yeah. they have copies. Anette Lewis: I picked up my own so that I could read. Larry Kiernan: All right. they're in your office. Unknown: yeah. for the hard and otherwise. they're available online. yeah. How many extras Have you got? I think one for everyone. Regulations say. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: Is there a particular? A time. Robert. when it's not good to come to the office and when. like you're. you're out to lunch every single day. or Robert Hummel: I'll be. I'll be in the office tomorrow. and I'll be back on next week too. I mean. right now it's just me in the office. because it kind of need us on vacation for two weeks. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: but. but. but the book is right there. right? You could see the pile and just grab it. Unknown: Well. the door is locked. Robert Hummel: Well. if you I also know if you're. if I know you're coming by. I can also put in the put outside the door. Robin Borgestedt: Okay. I'll see what my time looks like. Robert Hummel: Just email me. I'll let you know if I'm. if it's easier. that way they're valuable. you know. yeah. but yeah. they give me like 10 copies of each so it's. Unknown: it's a lot of. it's a lot of. there's a lot paper so Anette Lewis: and we also got an email today that said that there was a proposal from one of the consulting firms. but I think it's a virus. I'm not sure Robert Hummel: you should have received a following email. I got one as a follow up email from it saying. just to lead it. Anette Lewis: Oh. no. I didn't get one. Oh. is it from? I'm sorry it. oh. it was from MetroWest. Oh. the person. the person's name. was on Unknown: it. Don't click it. yeah. don't click it. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Went to the entire board. Yeah. It went to the planning Anette Lewis: board. We have issues. Ira. with things going through Unknown: to you. yeah. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: a lot of a lot of places selling things that. you know we have nothing to do with. you know. like you can get Robert Hummel: rubber strips. Oh. yeah. those my spam. I always see my spam I see this all time my spam
Robin Borgestedt: email came in. The email came in at three o'clock today from Patrick Arno. so just don't Larry Kiernan: open it. My office. They email us regularly with phishing emails. and if you open it. they kind of wrap you on and they Robin Borgestedt: do that with us. Big Larry Kiernan: thumbs up.
Robert Hummel: They did that a few they did a year ago in Wayland. Only the IT director knew that MIMO was going out and didn't tell his staff. and he just he put it out on purpose as a phishing email to see what. just to test the water. to see how it was. I'm assuming he meant town manager knew that's it. Now that was when people who knew that the fishing email was going out. so I obviously caught it instead of Taiji. right away. like I could tell which when they're fishing. it's very Larry Kiernan: fun though you're now you're looking for not to get the thumbs down.
Anette Lewis: Okay.
Robert Hummel: I did the question for you. Anette. I had someone coming in my office. I'm asking about a subdivision. and they had a few questions. and they I suggested to me to talk to you about the potential of a subdivision and and if these. if these waivers. we could be granted. potentially. if Unknown: a waiver could be granted. yes. Robert Hummel: so she's gonna send me an email of the the of the subdivision. She is trying to list a piece of property. and she just wants to know. like. is it likely that a subject could be built or not? Just because they need. they need some a lot of waivers. It's not a developer. or she's not looking to build it. She's trying to list the property. but she also wants to do a little research to know how. how to less Anette Lewis: we go so far. though. because we would have to be approving it. I mean. she should really just hire somebody and. Robert Hummel: well. I don't think she they want sending money. I think this one now it really has to go down to like. one to two waivers that I think be pointed just Fay to you. to personally waving is. do you think it's likely or not? Unknown: You couldn't answer it for her. It's kind of gray. Anette Lewis: That's why. Okay. why don't you? And I talk about what's gray and what's not and then you can talk to her rather than Unknown: me talking to her
Anette Lewis: better. because I it'd be uncomfortable if we had to then make A decision on her application. Unknown: Yeah. it's fine. Okay. Okay. Okay. all right. everybody. it's been fun. May I have I'm sure. Jesse Newberry: yeah. we did good. Unknown: I may have to adjourn. Okay. second All in favor. Ira Montague. yes. Jesse Newbury. yes. Robin Borg stead. yes. Larry Kiernan. yes. Anette Lewis. yes.
Okay. I'm surprised to see Nate in. but that's fine. I thought we were just having people show up in the panel. in the attendees. and then we were going to elevate them. Robert. Robert Hummel: yes. I only said I send invites to only three will to Nate. Tom White of the ZBA and Bill Sterling. and that's it. Anette Lewis: Invites for a panelist. or invites for. Robert Hummel: a panelist. Anette Lewis: Okay. that's not what I wrote to them. and that's not what I was expecting. but that's fine. Robert Hummel: Well. especially for Bill. certainly he gets a little confused. so sometimes it's helpful for him to get the complete invite so he can actually log in. Anette Lewis: yeah. except that sometimes we're gonna want him not to necessarily be sitting on the panel. For the whole meeting. Larry Kiernan. are you here now? Larry Kiernan: I am now in the correct meeting. Robin Borgestedt: Okay. good
Anette Lewis: for the agenda this evening. We don't have any draft minutes to approve. We have a discussion of possible amendments to zoning bylaws with representatives. I expect. of the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Design Review Advisory board. The whole boards were invited to participate. but they We only heard back from the two chairs. and we're going to be talking especially about the signage by law 198. Dash 501 and 502 site plan approval by law. maybe section 198. 601 and following housekeeping. cleanup. things that Robert has been keeping track of that we need to deal with. and ground mounted solar and battery. battery. energy storage systems. which would be a new bylaw that Jesse Newberry has been working on. Then updates from the town planner with a brief overview of the Dover amendment parameters for exempt uses under the state law and our bylaw. and status of current peer reviews for the upcoming site plan reviews. then board comments and concerns. And I'm not aware of any matters that I didn't know about 48 hours in advance and then adjourn.
Okay. Bill Sterling is here and well. we have a few minutes before everyone is here. Robert. what is the status of the peer reviews? Robert Hummel: Sure. So I discussed this with Aneri before I went on vacation. and I came back on vacation. and she has officially resigned from the town. and she's given a two week notice. Is noted in. I believe. noted in the last Planning board meeting. I think that Nia mentioned that as one of the updates. and she has not been in since I started back on Monday. So I have the information-from so there's two projects we have. We'll look at the church. and then the Carroll School. So for the church. I we had three scope of works. and I think we have three. Pardon me. you have three. What we have through two projects that we're talking about? Yes. So we have the church the Coptic. the Coptic Church. and then we have the Carroll school. the education use. so for the for the Coptic Church. we have three peer review score works that we received back. And I think Believe. believe that me and Linda have agreed upon one of them. And then for the Carroll School. I have not received anything yet for that. Anette Lewis: have the RFPs has gone out? Robert Hummel: the RFP the RFP is also different. you mean the RFQ. whatever I believe so. but I would have to follow up with Aneri. when she gets back. Anette Lewis: she has somebody check her email to see ? Robert Hummel: she should be back tomorrow. Hopefully. okay. so we've been kind of itching to follow up with her on that. And then for. I believe that the board wanted transportation. traffic engine peer review. Is that correct for both of them? Anette Lewis: Not necessarily. the you need to make that determination under the Dover amendment. certainly for the parking and the circulation on site.
Robert Hummel: So did the board want peer reviews for that too. Anette Lewis: for what two? Robert Hummel: the two projects for a traffic engineer to that's what Anette Lewis: I just said. certainly for the on site traffic movement. And I you can do some on the approach way. but you have to be careful because of the requirements of the Dover amendment. as you'll recall from the Veritas project. Robert Hummel: So circulation and what was the other?
Anette Lewis: circulation and driveway approach. I mean. they can. I don't know. mmyou have to talk to the applicant about what they're willing to pay for. those things they would have to pay for. but for traffic review. didn't one of them send in a traffic review. They both did okay. So you could have somebody look at them. I guess. But I don't think we can do a major. major. do on those. Robert Hummel: I have. just today. because it wasn't. wasn't. I'm sure where near he was with we've seen those out. So I send. send them out for both of them. Anette Lewis: So okay Robert Hummel: but I've not received anything back. No scoreboard back yet for the writers. And I've not received anything yet back for the Carroll School for 503g but my understanding is probably in Aneri's mailbox. So if she's not tomorrow. then I will. I will request IT to take a look at their dept email box. because I we need. I need to move on this. Anette Lewis: Yeah. no. we do. And it would be good to have the peer at least preliminary peer review done before the October Robert Hummel: Yeah. that would be the goal. But I think this. 15 hearing.
this change in in uh. staffing. and her absence has had made. made a little harder to get this done. especially when I don't have all the information. And it also Anita us out so I don't have Anita was. I think she was an emailed on some of those emails. so she's also not there too. so I can't see what's going on. Anette Lewis: Yeah. she didn't have them either when I talked to her. Robert Hummel: So that's what we have now been trying to put pieces together since I since I was out on vacation for a week. Anette Lewis: Okay? So for the things that have gone out. it'll be consolidated with Board of Health. Planning board and Conservation. Robert Hummel: yep. So for the Board of Health. for people about the ground mounding analysis. That's what the Board of Health would like to see. Can think a lot of stuff septic is a little early for that stuff. but so mostly be ground mounding. But their stuff would be the chapter 193. I think of chapter 193 of storm warning. Anette Lewis: I just want to mention that the notice went out for the in the newspaper for both of those hearings. I didn't see it in advance. and it just said that it was going to be a Zoom meeting. So for the first meeting that we have for each of the hearings. they're going to be zoom. They're not going to be in person. as we discussed. but for those thereafter. they're going to be in zoom and in person. Robert Hummel: Yeah. I think it's. I think it's. it's easier for me to set up the first hearing. if it's just zoom. and then we can. we can go to a better Tran better to hybrid into next meeting. Anette Lewis: Okay. wait. I mean the reason that I'd like to have all the peer review guys lined up. is I'd like to be able to schedule hearings so that people know what the subject matter is that we're going to be dealing with at each of the hearings. And perhaps be able to consolidate then. when we're talking about storm water. perhaps be able to meet with the Conservation Commission at the same time so that it's not as disruptive for the applicant and for the residents. Yeah. so let's think about that. Thank you. Robert Hummel: And when was it that. when was a decision that you wanted to be hybrid was that? Was that last week's meeting? Yeah? Yeah. right. So good idea everything. I get everything done before they lost me. me because. no. Anette Lewis: well. and Anina thought that she could add it afterward. And I explained to her that she couldn't. because it was a legal notice. She thought that we could add the in person afterward. Robert Hummel: Yeah. it's fine. but we can just change it. We'll just move it to hybrid at the next main. yeah. Anette Lewis: okay. Robert Hummel: not big deal Anette Lewis: um. I don't see Tom here. Tom White Unknown: act. There's an ACTWO. I don't know who that is. Anette Lewis: unless somebody else came in. Robert Hummel: someone has a hand up in the in the audience. Anette Lewis: I just okay. that might be Tom. Robert Hummel: it's. don't recgonize the name. Thomas White: Sorry. That's me. That's my Anette Lewis: Oh. good. Thomas White: ACTWO. that's my company's name. Unknown: Terrific. Anette Lewis: So we have Bill Sterling. who I can't see. Bill. are you here? Robbie Bullard: I'll bring him over. Anette Lewis: Okay. I thought he was brought over already.
So this evening. we have Tom White Chair of the zoning board. Nate Maltinsky who is our zoning Commissioner. and not Susan Westerling. she's not to be brought over. She's the public. Bill Sterling got it. And Bill Sterling. who's the Chair of the Design Review Board. so I'm assuming for you. Tom and you. Bill. that you've discussed what we're going to be discussing tonight with your board. and you've got the authority to speak for each of your boards. because they're not posted. And Thomas White: yes. for me. that is. that is the case. Anette Lewis: Can't hear you. Bill. you're you're muted. William Sterling: I assumed our entire board would be invited to this meeting. Unknown: They were. but you're not posted. so that's okay. as long as you can represent. William Sterling: I assume that Robert knew that we were going to be having to post it. I don't know. Anette Lewis: Uh. um. I don't think he posts. I don't. You'll have to work that out with him. Robert Hummel: I don't make any assumptions. Do you need? If you need a postage just ask I I'm not. I just got back from vacation. so been trying to catch up so not was not paying for everything. Who posted what Anette Lewis: did the invitation out to everybody on your on your board. William Sterling: Oh. do you want me to sign off then? Anette Lewis: No. Robert. to start off.
Robert. have you spoken with these guys before you prepared the sign? Unknown: I did not. Anette Lewis: You did not. Okay. Robert Hummel: see. these are some ideas that have came from Well. in general. yes. So I have had talks with. with Bill Sterling about some part of the signage by law. about how we have one example be the Jersey Mike sign. how that's it's technically not allowed the back lit signs. and that'd be something we could potentially put into a zoning amendment. But in general. these are the things that I've picked up that we don't have today. and that would be kind of be cleaned up a little bit. and some of it is pretty much basic I can put on. I don't know if how you want to run this back and put on what I have so far? Anette Lewis: No. not yet. I don't think so. Let's hear. I don't know Who should go first. You Tom and Bill decide who wants. I assume the two of you have talked. right? Thomas White: Yeah. we've we've talked. We had a we had a discussion a couple weeks ago. in general. So I can just only. I can really only comment from our perspective. on the zoning board. right? Because we actually have to hear of the sign. the applications for signs and every single application. someone always wants to there's always a special reason why they need to do something slightly different from the bylaw. The most recent example was a pediatric clinic on old Connecticut path. right kind of in the center of town like to comply technically with this the bylaw like they wouldn't have been able to put a small sign on the rear of the building. sort of facing the parking lot. sort of advertising the doctors names. right? Because the sign on the front. when you combine it with all the other signs in the building. kind of exceeded the. The 30 square foot rule. right? So there hasn't been a single sign application that we get on the zoning board where there doesn't have to be some. I don't want to call it waiving. but some. some requests to somehow tweak something in the regulations. because they need for this reason. and they're usually always benign reasons. right? But I can my observation as an architect when working in other communities is I've seen other sign bylaws that I don't have any examples to share because I wasn't that well prepared for tonight. but I've seen examples where other communities have a bylaw that has different requirements for different districts. Now. maybe this is appropriate for Wayland. Maybe it's not. but I'll use the example of Waltham. Wait in Waltham. there are some districts where the signs are much larger because they're viewed from the highway. Maybe not appropriate for Wayland. right? Because we don't have a highway. but as a case of as an example. right? Certain buildings are allowed to have much larger signs. because the primary audience for the sign is vehicle traffic moving at 60 miles an hour. Other districts where it's more residential the signs. signs are sort of designed to be in keeping with that more residential district. So a possibility when thinking about how to consider revising the ordinance is that there could be slightly different requirements for different districts. right? And I'm coming at this from the perception that I'm hearing that in general. people are unhappy with the signs because we don't have a super strict way on the Zoning Board of Appeals. of interpreting the esthetic criteria of the signs. right? We had can only go by the by law. We might have personal opinions and say This sign is unattractive. like. I really don't like that. The blue color. I think the red lettering is tacky. We can't that can't be part of our hearing process. So we do get advisory opinions from the design review review board that can weigh in on the kind of quality level of the sign and sort of their compliance with the bylaw. But because of the structure of the Design Review Board and the way it is set up in the bylaw. these are kind of only advisory opinions. and a applicant with a strong legal case for why a sign needs to be larger. needs to be split into three parts. needs to have a certain geometry. Can easily say. well. like. you know. you have a signage by law. it consists of these five paragraphs. And there's. there's nothing in these five paragraphs. No one has said this to me. but there's nothing in those five paragraphs that says. like. you can kind of legislate or sign approval on do you think it's ugly? You think it's architecturally appropriate. etc? We can't do that anyway. really. no. so. so it's but other communities have done this. There are other communities you can see. I think people use um. Freeport Maine as an example. Like their signage ordinance in the center district. like all the signs are made out of wood. they've stipulated the material. They've stipulated the size. Can we stipulated the color? I don't know. in Unknown: Massachusetts that. I Robert Hummel: don't know you can do it depict historic districts. Anette Lewis: In a historic district. yes. and Nantucket. you can. but that's got special legislation for Nantucket. Thomas White: correct? You know. this is so I'm only I. again. as an architect. not a lawyer. I don't necessarily. I'm not great legal expert on what is permitted and not. I'm just sort of. you know. giving you examples of things that I both I think of. like the challenges we have on the zba right. enforcing the by law that we have right. and the fact that. you know. in crafting any bylaw right. you don't want to be so specific. because you then constrain options. and you might accidentally make something much worse. because you can't if you're too specific. you can't think of every instance that you want to legislate. So you've got to create something that that is the great balance between. you know. control and maximum flexibility. right? But hearing that people have been generally not pleased with the signs that that we wind up approving on the zba. we're sort of. we're happy if there is some. some way that we can either get a little more authority. kind of. architecturally. to to shape these signs within the bounds of. you know. Mass General zoning laws. or is there some other vehicle can can the Design Review Boards comments sort of include more kind of architectural critiques that we can kind of bring in to our hearing? Unknown: Systems and and sort of Thomas White: opine on. you know. within the context of of the by law. Anette Lewis: the way that the by law is written currently is relatively generic. It's 40 square feet. essentially. you know. you can figure out where you want to put it. how you want to put it. but it's 40 square feet. So that's and there are provisions. I think. in the by law. which you know about. that give you the ability to Unknown: make them bigger. Anette Lewis: Yes. the idea of having different districts becomes. this is just me speaking problematic. because we don't have that many different No. you don't. you know. yeah. and residential isn't supposed to have them at all. true. And the town center has its own zoning stuff under that. so it doesn't leave lots. no. Unknown: So if you could give us specific things Anette Lewis: that that we can try and work with that would help. I mean. it's 40 square feet too small. Does it need to be bigger? You know. on the lit dental building. that sign seems really large. I don't know. Thomas White: it seems like it's large. but it's not. It's like. because we. that was a that one we went through for a lot. and I mean. they did ask for. they did ask for an increase. but I want to say it's within 15% so I would say every universally. we are asked for increases. A lot of times it's because people want more than one sign. The most recent one was the approval for the Dunkin Donuts Jimmy John's facility that's going in where the um. Unknown: former Bank of America was like Thomas White: when you added this. I believe. and I could be mistaken. but I believe when you add they and they made the case. and when you added the square footage of the signs. I think it was four square feet or five square feet over. or something like that. It was a trivial amount. But again. the case was made. There needs to be signs on two faces. and they probably should be of equal scale. So for the most part. the request is to is to allow us to increase it. Which the bylaw. I don't know that necessarily need to change. We have the ability to increase it. I would. I would say that it's doesn't seem very well worded. It's horrendous. because when I read it. I and again. I'm not a lawyer. but I could read the sentence to I could read the ability for us to increase the signage size two different ways. So if I can do that. I can imagine someone who's a really skilled little gate would have a different opinion. So I it would probably be nice if it was maybe there was something a little more legally Anette Lewis: precise. Yeah. it would be nice if the whole thing were more legally there's a lot Thomas White: of ambiguity in the number of Anette Lewis: years ago. I was tasked with Susan Kaufman. who was a member of the zoning board. to come up with a news sign by law. and we worked for a week and came up with it and took it to the planning board. and the planning board then said. Oh. that's nice. And then put it aside. and maybe we can look at it again. And also. I mean. I understand what you're saying. and maybe it should say something like for two street facing sides of a building. or street facing and parking lot facing sides of a building. you can have a sign or something like that. Thomas White: Yeah. that wouldn't be that wouldn't necessarily be bad.
Anette Lewis: But aside from that. are there other things other than the faces that it needs to be on in the saw and for 40 square feet? Is that a bad number. or is that an okay one?
Thomas White: I think it's a reasonable number. I actually. you know. not withstanding all the things we're talking about. Unknown: The fact that you have Thomas White: a body in town that does have the ability to look at it and regulate it. that that does give us the ability to say what you're proposing is too large. right? So. like. I would be hesitant to say. you know. make it 60 square feet. Because I think if people's perceptions are the signs that we have now are on the large side. I wouldn't advocate increasing it. We have the ability to kind of constrain them to. you know. again. because we have the ability to allow the 40 square feet to be exceeded. It gives us the ability to make a determination of. What we think is reasonable. but this is where. this is where it becomes challenging. because I Unknown: think of an example like Thomas White: if someone asked for a 100 square foot sign on the face of a building the size of Stop and Shop. that's architecturally reasonable. because that might be proportional to the size of the building. but if someone asked for a 100 square foot sign on the lit dental building. it would be too large. So is there a way for us to bring in. in the bylaw. a discussion about sort of the architectural character of a sign and why it may be appropriate to allow for a larger one versus not. I think that would be the P that's. in a way. in my mind. the missing piece by just saying we can only go by the sentences in the bylaw. it implies that the zoning board doesn't have the ability to talk about the actual design merits of a sign. and yet. I mean. someone is coming to us to approve it. and this is why it's a little difficult Anette Lewis: a special permit. I think that you have that ability. I think we'd have to ask town council if we can bring in the architectural elements. I would say we probably can't. because we're supposed to be pretty much cut and dry. Yeah. the architectural elements are very subjective. Unknown: But could Robin Borgestedt: you tie the if they're coming for a special permit for a larger size? Could you tie an absolute maximum to the percentage of the face of the building that the sign is going to be on. you know. 40 square feet. but under no circumstances can a special permit be allowed that would permit the sign to take up more than. you know. 20% of the face of the building. Thomas White: And so I appreciate. I appreciate the idea there. I think it might be hard to do just because there are not a huge amount. but there are. there are enough buildings of differing sizes in town where it might be. might be hard to do. because what could look good at 20% on some building. might look better at 35% on another building. So it might be hard. I like the idea. but it might be difficult to actually implement something that tricky. Anette Lewis: also on the face of a building. depending on how the building is constructed. the top part might be smaller than the bottom part. And how do you know what the face is that you're counting Robin Borgestedt: from? Right? But is there some. you know. is there some similar way. some other measurement that you can take. that you can say there's a hard stop at this percentage. even for a special permit.
Thomas White: Right now. there's not. it just is up to us on the zoning board to say we don't. we don't agree that this is appropriate. And. you know. we have to. we have to find the language to say that it's not appropriate within the sentences of the signage. Anette Lewis: By law. no. you can also use the special permit. We can use Thomas White: a special permit language that it's. like. it's. it would derogate from the character. yeah. okay. Then. then we probably have enough. I mean. we haven't been presented with something like that. so it's it hasn't been an issue so far. But you know. if we're looking at understanding this. it's a possibility that Unknown: it could be so if there are other Anette Lewis: things that you think of. even as we're talking tonight. and even in other parts of our by law. I know that you've given us stuff over the years and never done anything with it. We're starting to try and and fix the so just pipe up. Bill. Do you want to talk? Unknown: Sure. I.
William Sterling: I looked at this from and I agree with all of Tom's concerns. having been on the zoning board myself for over 10 years. I do feel though that in those 10 years. even though it was frustrating. we did manage to get through coping with some very. you know. cryptic notes in the zoning by law about signage. I You may and I agree with Tom on this too. that you may regret getting more detailed about what you are going to require. because that will just make the zoning board's job probably more difficult. I think that let me get get into what I was thinking about. though. Robert Hummel: when we did the guidelines back in 2011
William Sterling: our committee. our working group. I believe we looked. At the Newton. city of Newton signage bylaws as an example. at the time. as a as a good example of signage
guideline. And we also looked at some others. several others. So this past week. when we were invited to join this meeting. I thought about what where we are today. and it appears that there's still a sentiment in Wayland Unknown: that that our town William Sterling: look to the town of Concord as an example of a town we'd like to look like. Anette Lewis: and I think that William Sterling: the first thing I did then was to check their bylaws out. They they rewrote their bylaws in 2020 and that date was encouraging to me. thinking that. well. they've fixed all the kind of problems that we may have faced. But as I scan through the signage
Robert Hummel: miles. I it was William Sterling: surprising to me that they actually allow signs that we would never want in Wayland. So what I wanted to do next was Robin and I talked about having the Design Review Board look at different towns. I was going to drive around Concord and and get a better idea of what the how the signage fits with their buildings and fits with the character of the town. It may not be as consistent as you were mentioning a historic district where you say all signs have to be wood. which I think they do in places like Beacon Hill. I think that it does. It may end up that we can use their recent sign by laws as a guide of how to organize the information. but we may not agree with all the decisions they made about what would be required. Unknown: That's where I am on that. Okay. Nate. do you want to weigh in? Well. Mr. White stole the show. So that was well. well. put together. Thomas White: Tom. I don't know Unknown: about that. No. no. really. you covered all the bases. I believe that maybe the style of lights that is more prevalent now. like the ones that were permitted for Jersey mics. where it's a it's got a rare illumination that's not obtrusive to to anyone is not glaring. I think we have to look at new styles of lighting that we can permit. that that is tasteful. that there's there's a lot of new designs. a lot of new technology that's out there that can be utilized. that I think we have to look at and address in the future here. I don't know if you've gone by Jersey Mike's at night. but it's. it's a well done light. And is there? Is there marquee is what they use for all their stores. And I I think that the zoning board has done a great job of adhering to the needs of the applicants and working with them to make the signage work. and nothing has been in my tenure so far that nothing's been out of control and within reason. So there are. there is some good language. and I did look at a few other towns. but I would like to see your. your work that you've done previously. Anette. that you presented to the planning board years ago. Okay. I'll look for it. Anette Lewis: So with a jersey Mike sign. What kind of lighting would you call that if we were going to draft something for that? Unknown: It is a low illumination. rare lighting. and it's more of the like a halo. It's a halo lighting. and William Sterling: as opposed to internally illuminated. That's that's not allowed. that's correct. and that's why we were material. then a backlight will shine through the sign material. and that's not allowed. yeah. Thomas White: And that's why we didn't flag this as a concern. because it seems to. it seems to not meet the requirement for the. you know. backlit right component. even though it is illuminated and it's got a halo effect. So this is an instance where I don't. I don't think they designed this to skirt the language of the bylaw. I think it's their it's their brand. But this is an unintended consequence of the. About the way the by law is worded. And I don't think anyone would have anticipated trying to come up with a definition of that style of sign lighting. because it's not it. Probably it's not very common. It's done more now. but it's not something that I think would have been anticipated. Anette Lewis: So when in our bylaws. we have that signs can't oscillate. They can't. I believe it says somewhere that they can't be neon signs and they can't be internally lit. Is my recollection. Is basically the three criteria. Unknown: Are they problematic for you to have those criteria? No. I don't think so. I would keep them too. Okay. they're fine.
Anette Lewis: So Robert has gone through and made some suggestions for us. Doesn't cover all of the things you're talking about. and I've read through them. and our bylaws are really confusing. I mean. I was even though he marked them up. they're still confusing. And I think that they need some assistance. Robert. do you want to put them up and take us through so that we can all see the kinds of things you're talking about and tell us. in an overview. what kinds of changes you were thinking that we should do. Robert Hummel: Yeah. so for the first paragraph. just really make it very easy to understand who has the Fay to approve signs and what. what can the zba or which special. special permit granted for you can do so first. Section five. oh. 1.11 is just cleaning it up. but it also takes away the lines that provided. However. the signs with moving parts or internal limited are prohibited to allow that internal lighting in limited signs like Jersey makes. And then another thing that that the pilot doesn't touch about is that is Dover amendment signs. So putting a section in that under five. oh. 1.2 to cover non profit. educational. our cultural. religious or child care uses says something that'd be something new. because we don't have a category for that today. Point three. oh. I skipped over this. Also adding three new definitions display area. sign and temporary sign. So actually given information. so setting. what does mean in in Section 104. and what display area means? Because that is also a discussion that people have. is. how you do. how do you actually measure display area? Is it the whole box? Is a drawing a box around it. or is just. you know. each. each one you have so be drawing a giant box around the sign. And that's that. that it will be the display area. so that would be not a a Unknown: just a disagreement. Robert Hummel: And then format to 550. 1.3 adding the word signs when you know upper casing it also adding a section about science cannot be illuminated longer than 30 minutes after before. before or after closing any signs just to kind of loosen. you know. close then close that there. One of the issues we're finding in this town. I've noticed. is people will just put up temporary signs up in it. We don't have. we don't have a section today about temporary signs. So a new company comes in. let's say. you know. Mike's clock. You know Clock Company. They come into town and they got. you know. a permit from the zba. and then they probably signs up. We have. it's. it's. it's our job is staff to enforce that. So one ideas would be to allow them to put up temporary signs for the. you know. the first 30 days. while they open up. and then for them to. you know. take that down once the 30 days is over. just so they can get that the new business in. But they're not about to give it a long term. because we've had that in the past where new businesses get their special. you know. their special power. For the zba. they put up the signs. and then they put up these. a phrase signs for up. and then we don't have. we don't have a section in a bylaw. And this is something I've discussed with needs. It's just giving them the grace period for 30 days. But one idea would be to allow for temporary sign. Allowed them to apply for a temporary sign with this with the building Commissioner. and then for them take it down after 30 days is over. just so they can get the new business in and people can find them. but then also give them the opportunity to actually Unknown: advertise. so that. Robert Hummel: I have to right now. I also wrote down.
potentially adding something into the first section about allowing signs on two faces of the wall. kind of we talked about the young donuts and Jimmy John about how they have a sign on the front of the building. and then they want to decide. and potentially allowing that. if it. if it's within the 40 square feet. and making. maybe being making that by right. so that businesses have to come in if they comply with the bylaw with 40 square feet. but they just have two signs because they. you know. are ones on the part driveway and one is on the road. That is a potential idea we could. we could add in there. So. but I do agree this time bar is Unknown: very small. but also there's Robert Hummel: places in this bylaw where it's very confusing. and I think it'd be helpful to clean that up at the same time. Anette Lewis: So when you talk about the faces of a building. this is for everybody. all of us that we've been talking about. One could say two faces. One could say faces facing on public areas. There's some buildings that might need three because of the way that they face. How would it be easiest for the zoning board? Thomas White: I guess if it was instead of. instead of specifying a number. you could say. you know. signs could be permitted on multiple faces. you know.
Unknown: with appropriate Thomas White: reviews. or something like that. Because if you say two faces. I think Anette makes an excellent point. Maybe there's a building that's an octagon at a corner that needs signs on three sides. So I wouldn't want to say only two. I like Robert's point that if there's a way to streamline this so someone. someone who has the need for something that's a little bit unusual. signs on two sides. but they're under the 40 square feet. maybe they could just be approved. you know. by the building Commissioner as of right? And it doesn't require a permit. That's an interesting idea as well. So I think you could say signs could be permitted on multiple phases. you know. subject to review. or some language like that Anette Lewis: when you're reviewing a project that clearly is going to need a sign. from my point of view. you should be approving the sign at the same time you shouldn't. They should not be walking away without having at least the size of the sign and the location of the sign approved and then come back for. you know. the final sign when they when they get it. because we have people who have done buildings with no signage. and they should have had a special permit for the building to begin with. And then they don't. they walk away with no sign permit. permit. and then they go back to you for the sign permit. It just doesn't seem Unknown: efficient. I Thomas White: Yes. So the last two restaurants. we actually we approved the signage permit and the restaurant use special permit at the same time. That is a little unusual. Most people bifurcate the process. I don't know why. and give us a sign. They come up. they say. this is. we're going to come back later with a signed permit. William Sterling: That's been my experience. too. It's. I'm not quite sure why. you know. Thomas White: So we combine them. William Sterling: They're building a building on spec. Yeah. they don't know Jesse Newberry: who's gonna Yeah. that could be so
Thomas White: we don't necessarily have a problem with it. but as I said. Where. where we can we like to streamline it and write one decision with both permits. So as I said. the last two. last two restaurants. we were able to do that and combine them. Robert Hummel: An interesting case is the terrain project. I believe that they came in front of the Zion view board already about for their signage plan and their science plan is is. of course. over 40 square feet. But when we. when me and Bill. looked at together. um. based on how many tenants I used to have in that Plaza. the number of signage was the number of proposed signage square footage was under the number of tenants that he if you took each tenant and occupied by 40 square feet. or it was a number. But I don't they don't believe they have applied Thomas White: for the zba yet. They have not applied to the zba for that the signage. they Robert Hummel: haven't closed in a property too. So they're not gonna apply for the sign. They're not gonna zba until they close on a property. Yeah. you haven't closed or the the property manager has not closed in property yet. so they haven't applied for it. So there are some scenarios where. yeah. would have been nice to rank him in. With their plan and approved it. but they also have to make sure that they're not wasting anybody's time and money by submitting a plan. And then it's me happening. Anette Lewis: So one of the areas that needs to be changed in the bylaw is it talks about per lot. and sometimes you will have three lots combined for one project. And sometimes you'll have one lot with. as you said before. five tenants. So we need to figure out probably more on. well. depending. I was going to say probably more on a per tenants. size per tenant. number of signs. the problem then becomes as and I don't know if these are all approved signs. but if you look at the office building at the corner of Boston Post Road and Pelham Island. there are signs that are showing up. I'm sure they're way over. They're 40. I don't know if those are even approved. Unknown: Does anyone know Thomas White: they haven't? We haven't seen any applications for Unknown: anything else
William Sterling: we when we were on it. Anette. a number of times. the zoning board. when I was in the zoning board. a number of times we basically. and it wasn't written in the bylaws. We basically had to wing it and say. Well. this is a multi tenant complex. You take what used to be donlins complex. and it had many tenants and many signs. and we basically just had to use our own judgment on how many you know. if you have at least one sign per tenant and send this. I know we have two entrances. one in the front and one in the back. so you have to use your judgment. And I think it would be hard to legis. you know. to get legislative about it. and to find every condition that you're going to face. but you may want to put some language in there that gives the zoning board level of comfort that they can do this make right value Unknown: judgment. Yeah. that makes sense. Thomas White: and that's as simple as you know. confirming with town council that we can use not only the signage by law. but every bit of the language in the 4201. for a special permits.
because typically. we've been given the guidance. whether it's correct or not. that we need to refrain from making kind of specific design you know. design comments you know. which are usually more for the planning board or the Design Review Board. But given the unusual circumstance we have here where we're in charge of enforcing this like. you know. I just want it would be great to just have confirmation that we have perhaps maybe more leeway than we have traditionally been thinking Robin Borgestedt: Roberts. Roberts draft that's on the screen does provide some language. right? The very first sort of section in that big paragraph. yeah. each business on a lot is entitled to one wall sign. and each lot is entitled to one freestanding sign to display all the businesses. So. you know. kind of taking that and maybe beefing that up and making it. you know. little more clear. The difficult situation is when each business also has. you know. a roadway facing facade. and. you know. their main entrance is on a different facade. kind of thing. William Sterling: Yeah. Donald's is another example of that. you know. they have a major road entrance from two different roads. So they need two kiosks with multi signs. maybe the third one on the intersection with the corner. you know. So they have multiple needs there.
Anette Lewis: Also talking about businesses. Sometimes we have not businesses. We have churches. we have social clubs. so we have to figure out how to word that kind of stuff. Thomas White: Well. that would be. there are provisions in the Dover amendment about religious uses. so that may be difficult to
Unknown: develop. or at least a little more challenging.
Robert Hummel: Are we? How do you feel about putting a provision about for free. saying sign to add Unknown: landscaping? I
Thomas White: think it's a good idea. I think it's hard. It's hard to enforce. because. say. they would put us in on the zoning board. in the position of telling them what they have to landscape with which we're happy to do. But like. you know. it's like you don't. you know. probably don't want us saying you have to use these kinds of shrubs. like. at this density. this. Right? I mean. that would be difficult for us to do from a design perspective. Robert Hummel: A good. a good zoning by law for signage is. is actually the town of Acton. And I worked at Town Acton for six years in the past. And they were. we were very. they had a very. very. very detail Zoning Bylaw. section by section. village districts. non village districts. and it is one section and about. they have to have landscaping for free. saying sign and space still not a landscaping is based on the height of the sign. So if you. if your height is the size six feet. you would multiply by it by two. and then you would square that so be 144 square feet of landscaping. And it just says that landscaping must be planted and maintained with suitable vegetation. shrubs and flower. It didn't say what kind of things. Okay. so there is provisions. I. I didn't put in this draft. But we. if you. if you want to beautify signage in the future. you could require landscaping. And that was also one of the things that the smart could go to the planning board of zba for in time of acting too. is if you wanted to reduce your landscaping. So if you had to put 144 but you. you came in. you're like. I can only put in 50 square feet. You can go to zba or planning board for for relief for that too. So there's a. if you look at that by law. there's a few other things you could. we could potentially do. I am not advocating for different sides of different districts. because we. we don't truly have. like. a real village district. like the town of acting does they have real districts that have a real village feel to it. Thomas White: But yeah. I agree. I think it's like. it's. I used it as an example. but yeah. it's. you're hard pressed to sort of make a case that Wayland has these kind of unique. unique districts that would require it. maybe. Robert Hummel: But the town of Acton had it had a very. very detailed temporary sign program too. where for getting new businesses. you if you want to advertise your business. you would apply for up to 45 days a year where you put up a temporary sign. So if you're doing like. you know. sales and stuff. you could you would pick your days. what days you want to do. But that's really. getting really detail into this by law. But I think the whole point of this was to make this simple. but also allow for. honestly. a lot for temporary science. because people are just putting up temporary science for new businesses. And it's hard to. it's really hard to. we don't have the staffing to police them all the time. or to bug them all time. to take down the science. So I think internally right now. we're just like allowing it for the first three days. just because we know them. that they are new. and they want to attract new businesses and new. you know. to the to the location. But we gotta figure a way to govern that so that people can. we can kind of administrate that in the future. Anette Lewis: Robert. in what you have in five. oh. 2.4 with temporary signs no bigger than 10 square feet in display area. and the sign. any sign that moves or a banner. is prohibited. So the kinds of things that we've been seeing are essentially banners. They're like flag things. Robin Borgestedt: flappy things Robert Hummel: we don't want. We want. we don't want the any moves. So I'm thinking more of like a sandwich board. a five by two sandwich board. or a one of the signs you kind of push into the ground Anette Lewis: right with the sandwich board. And I can't remember where I read it in here. but you talk. Okay. it's right underneath it. a temporary sign. shall neither be erected on a sidewalk. walkway or driveway. nor within five feet from the sideline of a street or right of way customarily used by the general public. The sideline of the street. to most people. is where the pavement ends. and it's really the lot line. because they can't put their signs on the public way. you know. in the unpaved right of way? Unknown: Yep. correct.
Robin Borgestedt: It seems like we have a lot of those flapping signs that are more or less permanent in town right now. Unknown: Yeah. agree.
Where do you have those? I
Robin Borgestedt: think the landscaper in the center of town has had one up and somewhere else maybe. is it this the convenience store somebody else has one up also further along on route 20.
Anette Lewis: Is that something that you please snake. Or does somebody have to tell you about it? Or how does it work? If we Unknown: see it. we will take care of the situation. And then we receive phone calls occasionally. okay? And we go out and enforce that and pull signs or ask the Ask the individuals to remove them if they don't. We take it upon ourselves. The last one was at 27 in old con up on the hill. up in the granite landscaper. he did not remove it. so I climbed the wall and took it down.
So we will have quite a few signs. So. 112 112 to 116 Main Street is going to be all new signs coming up here soon. I know terrain is going to be applying soon for signage. Josh Fox did come in last week and had mentioned that are actually got some paperwork to for their signage. so we'll have some things to consider here in the near future. And for your purposes. Anette Lewis: aside from the things that we've already talked about. are there other things that would make your life easier? Unknown: I think that if it helps that. like Tom alluded to. that most of your national or your well put together organizations have their signage in place when they present their plans. and that's very helpful. So you get a full imagery of what they're presenting. and they have design teams. you know to present that. so that's very helpful. and then your smaller venues typically don't. and that's okay. because that's what makes the world go round. So I think that if someone's presenting a project or remodel for a building that they we should ask them to have the signage as part of the package
so we can see the full concept of what's going on. Anette Lewis: So would that be in the by law that we would say that? Or would that be in the zoning boards regulations? Unknown: I think you could put the bylaw sounds reasonable. Thomas White: You also might be able to. you also might be able to put it in the zoning application. Like. when someone comes in for a business use. like a business use special permit. it should be. like. automatic and where's your sign application as well. Like. because that way we could. you can hear them in in the same case. I don't know if that has to be in the by law. or if that could be. maybe it could be in the zba regulations. because that could be easy. That's easier to change. And then. you know. you could just accept those as as permit applications. I would say Robert Hummel: regulations. I would say you because you can't. you can't require someone to to in the pilot. to to that. So I think regulations would be easy to to know to Anette Lewis: do that. Yeah. even if they don't have the full color or the full font. knowing the approximate size is kind of helpful. I think. Unknown: yeah. I would agree. Ira. Larry. Jesse. Larry Kiernan: I have two questions. One is Tom or Nate. how do you think our signs compare to neighboring towns? I honestly don't have an opinion on that. The other question is.
have you gotten feedback that is harder or easier or difficult to get signs in Wayland versus other towns. Any feedback Unknown: from folks?
Thomas White: I haven't received any feedback on the zba that there are problems or complaints with the delays or challenges getting signed permits. Larry Kiernan: normally one or two meetings. Thomas White: It's normally one meeting. We've very rarely had someone come back with a second permit. You know. really send someone away with a continuance to come up with a revised design? Yeah. I think qualitatively. No. when I drive around. I mean. I don't study this. but when I drive through Sudbury. like or Natick or Wellesley. I don't think the signs that I see in businesses there are. like. you know. being necessarily better than the ones in Wayland. They don't seem. they don't really seem all that different. you know. because these kinds of communities generally have the same types of businesses. you know. supermarkets. small strip shopping centers with. you know. multi tenants. You know.
Unknown: in my opinion. I think that the. The predecessors in Wayland have done a good job. as far as review of signs and what's been in place. and it's. I don't see really anything as obtrusive. As far as signage. um. there's a couple that has slipped through the cracks that have just done new signs. Um. but for the most part. I think it's. I think Wayland is very tasteful. and there's nothing that really sticks out that I would say. you know. I don't like that. I mean. there's a couple on route 20 that I noticed. But for the most part. I think that everyone's done a good job. and. you know. can only make it a little bit better and and more fluid transition to to get his new sign. I have a couple questions. Larry. you done? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Yeah. Unless I'm missing something here. all we seem to be talking about is that size of the sign. or how many signs there can be on the building. What I'm missing is is. how do you approve the design if there aren't specific design criteria. like size. font size. you know. what? A palette of background color. you know. we have the lighting. I don't hear any how. And some of you say. with an application comes in. of course. you take the tape measure to it. That's okay. but you're also talking about approving. It sounds like you're talking about the esthetics of does this sign fit into the community and yet. who's to guide them. except for their own personal taste.
Thomas White: that's challenging. For example. if Jersey Mike's has a standard sign that is. that is the same that every one of their locations. we can't. as a community. say. you know. you you can't. You have to use. like. our predetermined background colors. font size. etc. because the sign is part of the corporate brand. So I think that would be a very unfriendly way to proceed Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: with it. Maybe so. But I know on the cape. and in other situations. McDonald's. for example. they have not allowed them to use the arches with their. you know. backlit that they've required. You know. I if I remember the logos there. the typeface is there. but it's either. you know. Thomas White: I again. not an expert in it. but I believe I'm familiar with places that have done that. I believe. though those are specific kind of already legislated historic districts. you know. where I think that that. I think there has to be some other underlying legal structure in place that I think would allow that type of Unknown: regulation. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: We should look into that. because I don't remember them that way. I remember them more like
strip mall. Of course not. But. you know. a number of different stores lined together that were in. what a more rural. or more. you know. I remember them being down on the Cape. where you kind of have these little. semi little malls. and they've required them to have all of those signs unified. but Robin Borgestedt: they could be roads that are designated scenic or something like that. They don't seem scenic anymore. but they may have been scenic roads or something Robert Hummel: possibly I still. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I know we had a conversation about the Dunkin Donuts at one point. and we had talked about somehow making them or suggesting to them that they don't use that logo. I mean. I think that's Anette Lewis: I agree. Again. I'm just looking at our bylaw for special permits. and it's taken exactly from the state bylaw. And at 198 203. it says. For a special permit. the applicant shall show to the satisfaction of the special permit granting authority that the use building or structure for which the application is made shall not be against the public interest. shall not derogate from the character of the neighborhood in which such use building or structure is to occur and shall not be detrimental or offensive because of noise. vibration. smoke. gas. fumes. odor. dust or other objectionable features. and that such use building or structure shall not otherwise be injurious to the inhabitants of the town or their property. or dangerous to the public health or safety. and I don't know for a fact. but I think that that's what they're using. because there are many places that won't let you use your corporate Unknown: logo kind of thing. right? Yeah.
William Sterling: Yeah. one in free Point Main a McDonald's is famous because they. McDonald's tried to sue them and lost. McDonald's has this little. teeny little. you know. McDonald's name on the side of the building. and that's all you got. Robert Hummel: Yeah. there's a really. there's a really cool one McDonald's. and I believe. is Arizona. It's. instead of a yellow local. is a turquoise blue. and it blends in with it. It blends in with the rest of the year in Arizona. It's really. really unique. But those. I mean. those are very extreme cases where there's very unusual cases. This thing like design islands already built in. and then Madonna's comes in and wants to do it so but Robin Borgestedt: sort of. that's one of my concerns. If we take out the prohibition on backlighting. because there are. there are backlight backlit signs that are offensive. and that would derogate the character. and maybe the jersey Mike sign is less. less of an affront. but William Sterling: I agree with you. Robin. yeah. the backlighting is fine. I think internally illuminated plastic signs. though. are still objectionable. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. so we have some language to to define that if we're going to take out the prohibition on internal lighting. You know. internal lighting. it doesn't shine through. How do we how do we say that? William Sterling: That's how I said it to them. I said. if it's the material is translucent. then it's not allowed. If it's opaque. then it's basically you're backlighting it.
Unknown: We could talk about backlighting. That's it. William Sterling: That's a sentence you need right there. Thomas White: Yeah. it could be the sentence an Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: example. Bill of what you're talking about.
William Sterling: An example of what I'm talking about would be. well. you were just talking about the one that just. is it? Duncan is putting in backlighting signage for their
Unknown: for their signs. and they allot it right. Tom. yeah. William Sterling: and the an example of an internally illuminated plastic sign. jeez. Anette Lewis: Lim. but like a mobile gas station sign. yeah. those William Sterling: are classic. That's a clean thing. and that's a very good example. The logo itself is a big plastic glob of blowing up. Yeah.
Thomas White: I am going to run out of time. I've got a gonna have to sign off in just a couple of minutes. But this has been a great discussion. We should probably aim to have a. you know. maybe set up something like this on a quarterly basis to kind of go through it doesn't necessarily just have to be on the signs. because there are a couple of other there's always some inconsistencies that we encounter in the by law. I would just say that that. if this group is looking at it. we've had several challenges recently with garages and side yards and sheds. there are some extremely conflicting languages in contained in the yards component of the by law one that we actually had to escalate up to town council for an application that we had. and she She gave us some great feedback and pointed out that. yes. there are some glaring like. legal inconsistencies. Anette Lewis: Can you share that with Robert and he can share it with Thomas White: Yes. I actually. I think. I think I had shared this one with Nathan and with Michael McCall. But yes. like. I can forward the email exchange with. with Carolyn Murray on. on some specific quirky problems we had with interplay between 401 point 1.2 and I think 703 on the yards. so. And. you know. there's always come up. you know. because people only come to the zba because they need to do something unusual. right? So I recognize that. like. we're the venue for the unusual projects. like no matter what. so it can't all be standard. So and then we're comfortable with that. We're that's what we're used to. But when. when we have when the bottom points us in two different directions. we sometimes struggle to accommodate what people are looking to do. And generally. most of the applications we get right. Are homeowners looking to do something like. I need to move my garage a foot closer. I need to do a screen porch. And. you know. we want to help these people. but sometimes the bylaw points us in kind of differing directions. And I think just some simple sentences could be cleaned up. but yeah. I'll. I can share that with Robert the. The exchange that I had with with Copeland and page several months ago. Anette Lewis: And if you want to set up sometimes and work it out with your board. yeah. we can just put it in the agenda. And I think that would be great idea. Thomas White: Yeah. I think it'd be. I think it'd be a wonderful idea. Because. as I said. we have some. we always have some quirky stuff. Anette Lewis: Can while you're here. though. can I just ask you a question? Um. I personally have had trouble reading the site plan. regular bylaw. Have you guys had issues with it? Unknown: Um. only. in as much as it's not. Thomas White: it's kind of worded. very convoluted as to who has the who is supposed to approve it. Sometimes we literally will spend 10 minutes in the meeting. I don't think you need to be here. I think you're supposed to be at the planning board. Because if this. if that. if this. if that. Anette Lewis: but also that whole first section about if you're this size. you're this. if you're that. so you're this. if you're this. and then if you've got parking. you're this. and it's very confusing. Thomas White: Yeah. I would agree. You know. yeah. it is. it is. It can be challenging just to figure all we're looking for is to make sure they're in the right regulatory venue and we're not accidentally taking on a case that we either shouldn't. we don't have the authority to. or we're sort of applying like the wrong provision of the bylaw. because the venue is not not the exact right Unknown: one. right? Okay. well. on that too. Thank you and Bill. do you want? Do you want to thanks. thanks. Thanks. Anette Lewis: You have other things that you want to talk about. William Sterling: Well. of course. I can tear up all your night with all kinds of things. but no. I think that we've discussed enough for one sitting. and I'm sure you have other things you need to get on to. Unknown: So Okay. terrific. Anette Lewis: Thank you so much. Anyone else have questions for Bill? Thank you for coming and thank you Nate very much for Unknown: joining as my first Planning Board meeting. It's been very. very fun. Anette Lewis: Well. you can come anytime.
Larry Kiernan: Thank you. All right. Good evening. Unknown: Thank you. In the signage Anette Lewis: bylaw. Robert. I have like. a gazillion comments. not just because of the changes you've made. but things that I see that have been in place forever. that are just Unknown: weird and hard to read. Anette Lewis: What do you think the best way and maybe others do too. I don't know. Do you guys have specific comments on what Robert shared with us? Robin Borgestedt: I was sort of waiting till tonight. Okay. no. that's fine. Unknown: I think you should pull up the commented version. Maybe we give it a look. Robin Borgestedt: Or do we circulate it now that we've listened to them and heard what they have? Jesse Newberry: Yeah. that's actually that's probably a better idea. Robin. Robert Hummel: yeah. just. I would just send the comments to me. and I can make a master list Unknown: of of it. Okay? Robert Hummel: I think. I think I worked on this a few months ago. So this is not the dates in my since September 4. but I because there's the more July. July main main notes to Anette Lewis: this. right? And some of the comments aren't really with your changes. They're with what's there already. yeah. Robert Hummel: in place. in one round of comments and and there wasn't. didn't like. keep digging into it. Anette Lewis: right? And for in one place you talked about commercial businesses. I wasn't sure if that was I don't think it's a defined term. and I wasn't sure if it was necessarily appropriate just for businesses. And there's another place where the bylaw. as written. refers to a state law that makes absolutely no sense. It refers to mgL 180 sections two and four. And 180 is creation of charitable and other corporations. and two is definitions. and four just lists. Who can be that kind of a court? What you can do if you're a corporation? So I'm not sure what they're trying to do. I can try and guess. but I don't think that we should leave something like that.
Unknown: It's in our section. pardon me. Anette Lewis: yeah. it's in your 501. Point. New three. Unknown: It's the very last line.
Anette Lewis: it says that you can have signs for any purposes that are set forth in the corporate section. And that's sort of weird. because. if not purposes there. what they're saying is you can create a corporation to do a B. C. D. E.
Unknown: So what they were trying to Robert Hummel: say was. Texas. it's in the existing today. Anette Lewis: yeah. I guess in the existing today. Oh. the Is this the Robert Hummel: NGO 180 Yeah. Robin Borgestedt: more sort of tacked on a sentence about religious celebration. signs. weird or devices that have been installed or erected pursuant to a special permit. Yeah. I
Robert Hummel: didn't know. I didn't really look into it. but yeah. that should probably be deleted. It's weird.
Anette Lewis: Um. okay. so we can get um comments to you. I'll send you mine in track changes. and they'll be mostly questions. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I think. Anette Lewis: And again. it's not your stuff. It's what's there already? Robert Hummel: No. it's this pilot is. should I retrieve and fix like years ago? Anette Lewis: Yeah. and I'll look at the one that we came up with a number of years ago and see if Unknown: it looks useful.
Anette Lewis: Has anybody looked at the site plan approval by Unknown: law. the little Jesse Newberry: bit in my ground mounted solar research. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: revise that a number of years ago.
Unknown: no site approval. Anette Lewis: We just added a section that makes it even more confusing. We added.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: then let's change and take that out. We're done no Anette Lewis: that one made sense in the context that we did it in. It's just when you start reading. are you subject to site plan approval? Unknown: There are Anette Lewis: essentially. I think. three different places that you have to go to to see if you're subject to site plan approval. One of the first is.
Unknown: let's see.
Anette Lewis: you have to fit into different size categories. That's one thing. Then there's a thing that talks about number of parking spaces. and you have to answer yes and no and no and yes. and then you wind up with this thing at the end. and it seems like you shouldn't have had to go through all that. You should have been able to just say. Yep. I'm going to be subject to Site Plan Review. rather than having this four pages of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth when it probably can be condensed into something more easily understandable. and then you would know which board you had to go to. whether it was the planning board or the zoning board. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. you've got. like. an applicability section and then a Administration section.
Anette Lewis: But even the applicability section is pretty tough using Yeah. I had to do it with the salt shed when I was a road Commissioner. and we were doing the salt shed. and I had to read this. and I just went. Holy cow. And it took me forever. because I had to go through all the steps. even though some of them really weren't even applicable. yeah. Unknown: And then you've got. like. a communication section. or. like. how to how to interact with the town. And then you get into the actual application itself. right. who it needs to go to. and then another on what you need to put in there. And then another on the planning board. Procedures separately. Anette Lewis: yeah. and we have. I think. also regulations for site plan. So I don't know if we're ready to tackle it this year. but I would hope that people will think about it and think about how we might try and simplify it.
Unknown: all of us. including Robert.
Anette Lewis: Robert. do you want to do the ground mounted next or the housekeeping? Robert Hummel: Let's do housekeeping. because I can quickly discuss it. but it's not like a lot of the house giving. So I started off with housekeeping on the page. I started housekeeping. There's things I noticed that need be fixed. And then we got a me Anette got a humongous packet of information from town council. from E code. saying. These are the things that areas that the town should look at in the next few years to change or or modify or make no changes. So they just kind of from the town clerk. right? Not from Clark. but it came from E code. E code came of it so. but some are are valid. like some say. D. H. D. So on the first page. It should be changed to elocative Office of Housing liberal communities. So like how to go a whole about each change based on that and when. for all the changes. what we tackle this year and what changes. when can we tackle another year? And site plan was part of that. that one of those suggested changes. but it's too much to change right now. but then also. some of it has to do with zba too. and the first page with
Unknown: clarifying what Robert Hummel: variances and what what you can get a variance for. So there are other scenarios in this. in this nine page document. But a lot of the changes proposed changes have to do changes that were suggested. It is I did spend a lot of time. like. just some silly by the code people. Yeah. So. like. a lot of changes are just very silly changes. like changing the unlike wireless communication system changing into electric transmissions towers. like just some really. really silly changes. They're like. it just
Anette Lewis: need to be made because they conform to the other definitions and things. yeah. yeah. Robert Hummel: And just like. delete definitions that. like. were like. we don't in some sections already had the definition for his town and zba. like. you don't need to repeat it over again. That's it. It kind of felt like someone added definitions in and then didn't. Can cross reference over the years to make sure. like. oh. I don't have to use word DEP. They don't define zba in this section. It's already defined in the original definition section. It's just. like. Unknown: a lot of just overkill. but Robert Hummel: it and like mass housing. like things that just change over time. Eloc and just a lot is just just silly changes that are just Unknown: very silly. Robert Hummel: And then the things were like. we have the section where in the mixes overlay. where the underlying zoning district never went away. and we never bothered it to modify that. So like just getting rid of the underlying limited commercial district and and getting rid of it once for all. so it's over. So I don't want to burden you by going through this one by one. I think better if members of the board just kind of go for and if they have any comments on this. but I'll. you know. some of its marijuana was spelled wrong. like just. Ma. just fixing silly mistakes. And I keep saying it's. it's. and we don't. We can tackle some of this this year. We can say. you know. we said. oh. let's just do on all of this. But let's get. let's get the silly ones other way. E lock in and fix those. You know this. this document can be things can be taken out and put into another document for years in the future. like it doesn't have everything has to be done today. this this year. if you don't want Anette Lewis: to. but we should probably do the most important and then lump things together that are of a similar nature. maybe. Robert Hummel: yeah. I mean. I just said. sort of by by Article One to article right? Whatever it is. this is just the way it is easy to display. right? Anette Lewis: A suggestion on. how about you know. what should go first and. and. is there like a theme that we can use this theme next year? Robin Borgestedt: I wonder if it helps. If Robert goes through and sort of color codes them with highlighting. you know. the the green ones are the ones that we really need to do. and they should be simple. The yellow ones are things that. you know it would be helpful to do. and the red ones are ones that we can defer. or the opposite way around. if we can color code kind of what has to get done. what would be nice and what we should look at and think about in the future. I don't know. Robert Hummel: Yeah. I do you let me do I can go back and just and we kind of recover them and then send it back out. Green. Green is like no brainers. yellows. maybe about this. and then red. like you Anette Lewis: don't have to do it right now. Why don't you wait? Oh no. not right now. But I'll send it Unknown: out. and we give you comments. yeah. yeah. Robert Hummel: I'll send it out. I'll color it and reset it out. And so it's a little easier to understand.
Unknown: So that's housekeeping. I mean. Robert Hummel: it started out as like. two pages. three pages. and then it went down to. like. now nine. because we've always potential changes Unknown: that need to be done so.
Robert Hummel: and I believe Jesse worked on the ground mounting. So I. And for that on the on that page for him. if you like. Unknown: Yep. that sounds great. Yeah. So. I mean. Jesse Newberry: this is all new. right? And Robin sent a version over that has a bunch of comments on it that I think are all really good comments. I don't know if anybody else has comments since they had a chance to review it after last week's meeting.
Robert Hummel: I don't think I got a copy of that. that email and document. Robin Borgestedt: No. I meant to send it to you. and somehow it only went to Jesse. I meant to send it only to you. but it was just so that he'd have my comments after the meeting today. because I figured we'll discuss them all. so Larry Kiernan: I didn't review them. but I did watch a bunch of videos on how to set up your own 10 kilowatt solar system and 250 watts. So awesome. I need pictures and you know. a little explanation. It was quite interesting. Jesse Newberry: So how like? So when you were watching that. how big were the 10 kilowatt ones? Because. I mean. we Larry Kiernan: have 10 kilowatt is like the ones you see around town. The one I saw was 8.8 Unknown: but it's probably
Larry Kiernan: 30 feet by 10 feet. or 40 feet by 10 feet. could be in MA two slaps. but yeah. it was not trivial. kind of like a big shed in your backyard. What was interesting was. when you connected to your house. he had batteries. He was trying to be able to run his house on it. Explain very detailed. that you can't run a typical house on 10 kilowatts. you gotta really conserve what you use. But he had a room set up for the battery and the converter like its own shed. and he air conditioned the shed. Jesse Newberry: and defeats the purpose of the solar panels
wild. Larry Kiernan: It made me wonder what heat is being generated by he bought computers Jesse Newberry: from the batteries in the inverter. Maybe the Larry Kiernan: there was the batteries. the converter. and there was two computers that he. I call them computers that he used to manage the payload.
Unknown: So maybe Larry Kiernan: that's more complicated than normal. But anyway. so and 250 kilowatts is huge. huge. Jesse Newberry: yeah. gigantic. yeah. it's huge. yeah. yeah. Larry Kiernan: it's a Jesse Newberry: farm. yeah. yeah. yeah. yeah. And then that's why I kind of did that. that way. with the small. medium. large in that divided up by. like. you know. the kilowatt capacity. Larry Kiernan: And he did the 8.8 kilowatts himself. Unknown: It's 20 grand. Yeah. Anette Lewis: so Jesse with these numbers. if were we able to check those with the energy people or Unknown: No. not yet. Jesse Newberry: not yet. I didn't get a chance to do that. Okay? I did end up sending to Abigail. but of course. I didn't hear back. Unknown: Yeah. I can shakes. Robert Hummel: And you do know that she's that she's losing. yeah? Jesse Newberry: We heard that last meeting. Yes. So yeah. Robert. do you have another contact yet? Robert Hummel: I send you. I send you Olivia's contact information. Jesse Newberry: Okay. I was curious what that was. Yeah. I was gonna ask you Robert Hummel: about that. Thank you. Oh. that was. yeah. I thought that. yeah. Jesse Newberry: I didn't get the context. But Unknown: I was watching. I was watching a Robert Hummel: tape. and since it says Robert. we'll send. we'll send Jesse the information. Unknown: Okay. thank you. Thank you. So. yeah. I'll. I'll. I'll reach out. Jesse Newberry: And then I think. in the meantime. if everybody's got this doc. you know. go. go through it and add your thoughts. please. And then we'll. um. we'll come back with a version with everyone's comments in it and kind of talk it through. Robin Borgestedt: Do you have any questions about my comments? Jessa. no. Jesse Newberry: I think they were all like you pointed out some really good things. Robin. and things that I think we need to define a little bit better. For sure. Anette Lewis: you want to share those with us so that we have them in our heads as we're doing our own comments. Unknown: Yes. yep. So Robin Borgestedt: I'm just going to run through them quickly from the top to the bottom. In the very the first definition of ground mounted solar. it says ancillary equipment. And I added in other than the battery. energy storage system. because that has its own definition section with respect to the canopy and carport in the definition and elsewhere in the bylaw. we have to find a way to if canopies and carports are not allowed. I mean. well. they are allowed. but not as ground mounted solar. They have their own different right. So we have to find a way to differentiate that. Because if you can have this thing 12 feet high. you could park your car under it. or you could put a picnic table under it. And so then. when is it a carport? And when is it not a carport? When is it a canopy and not a canopy? You know. are you not allowed to park a car underneath it? So. yeah. so that I think isn't it Anette Lewis: is. does the state one deal with that? Jesse. do you know? Unknown: I will look this up now. Okay. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: But if one is regulated one way. and one's regulated another way. that we have to define where that line is in the definition section. Do we need to define what a kilowatt is and the AC? Because for a homeowner. they may not know exactly what that is if they're just starting to research this. So maybe we have to put a definition in. But then also. who gets to define if you're under 10 or if you're over 250 is it just. you know. the manufacturer's specifications. or Jesse Newberry: that's what I was thinking it would be. because. right. they're all going to get more efficient over time. So it's. it's. yeah. should be with the manufacturer. Robin Borgestedt: So we might need to specify who gets to say whether you're under 10 or over 250. or where you are on that
then on the article seven. going down number four. it says. after the adoption of this chapter. I think it should say by law. And then once you've put battery. energy storage system. and put the abbreviation best. You don't need to keep saying it. Jesse Newberry: yeah. thank you.
Robin Borgestedt: In the next session. the zoning district and use representations. One place you said and best. and the other one said it was and their best. So I just they should be the same. and then prohibited area. Should say all solar Institute installations and best are prohibited within the wetlands resources. again. the next thing. dimensional standards. that height thing just running into that canopy. carport thing
in setbacks. I think we should make it clear that all applicants have to meet all set back standards. regardless of the size and permit type. It's not something you get a variance on. It's not something you get waived. You have to be outside of the setback area. Don't even ask. I don't know. that's what I think. but maybe other people agree. Unknown: Disagree. Yep. Robin Borgestedt: And then in terms of the lot coverage section. it says they may cover up to 40% of the lot area. The applicant must demonstrate adequate previous surface blah. blah. blah for the medium and the large scale installations. I think they should have to demonstrate through expert analysis. We should be specific about how they demonstrate that. For smalls. it's not it's not that language isn't in there. but both medium and large say they have to demonstrate something. and we should require that it be through expert analysis. vegetative buffering. It's 10 feet wide. We discussed this at the last meeting. yeah. To me. wide means. you know. if you're looking at a fence. it's the width of the fence from as you're facing it. And I think we're really talking about the depth of the buffer. Yeah. So I don't know if there's a different word for that. but to me it seems like depth. I think Anette Lewis: something in the the
Unknown: MBTA zoning Anette Lewis: dealing with that kind of a buffer. there might be language in there. Unknown: Okay. yeah. I'll give that Larry Kiernan: a look. Question on the coverage. so is that corner to corner? So if you've got four of these things up. it's the furthest corner to the furthest corner. or is it literally looking down at it saying because these are all tilted right. so they may move. Fly. but it may be six feet of coverage as an example. Robin Borgestedt: right? So is it as the bird flies. right? Some Unknown: of them do move. so Anette Lewis: you would have to explain it. It's full. Unknown: yeah. horizontal depth or vertical. yeah? Larry Kiernan: They don't go beyond a certain angle. So I think we talked about this before. Is it the furthest corner of the whole thing? Because I'm a fine with the small but with the medium and large. I assume people doing these are hovering just through. just installing these things. I mean. you're not put in an apple orchard or something. So 40% may turn folks away. Why Why can't I do 100% within boundaries?
Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I think we say special permit on the large ones. but we don't say it on the on the medium scale.
Unknown: right? I Robin Borgestedt: think for the medium. we're assuming it's on a residential lot with a house there. And because if it weren't. you would do large scale. I would think so. Unknown: I don't know. 250 is huge. Yeah. yep. that have Larry Kiernan: to be seven. eight acres. You know. you've got your house. your driveway and your but 40% came from where Jesse. I think. Unknown: was borrowed from one of the other towns. Larry Kiernan: I assume we define the coverage
Jesse Newberry: area. yeah. so that's up further up top. It's between. so it's between one acre and five less than five acres
Unknown: page. and then large is anything over five acres. yeah. but Larry Kiernan: I'm sorry I'm missing the coverage. If I have a house and it's got 20 by 20. I know that's 400 square feet of you know that needs to be managed for water. How does it work with a 20 by 20 solar panel Anette Lewis: if you're doing it on a residential lot and there's a house there already. I haven't I haven't thought it through in reading what Jesse has. but I would think that it would be the lot coverage for structures. and that's. I believe. 20% of the lot. and you can't have more than 20% of the lot covered. Larry Kiernan: I'm wondering. do we count that as 400 square feet or something less. because they're tilted.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I I think you're going to go crazy with this tilted thing. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I'm thinking. you want to do it more footprint. if you could. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: If you're talking about tilted. I would almost say that it's the footprint. like. let's say the going straight up. You know. what is? It's almost like. what is the shade of that whole unit? And call that the measurement of it. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. but you can't call that the footprint. because the footprint may be just the concrete right pad that has a leg on it. because they're generally a small ones on. like. a big on a post kind of thing. right? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: So. so would you have it like. if it was completely vertical. and then. like a TV set. and then Robert Hummel: measure that. So the height should probably Jesse Newberry: be vertical at the highest point. yeah. yeah. yeah. And then the footprint should probably be measured with it. you know. horizontal. Unknown: yeah. not the footprint. Anette Lewis: but the span Robin Borgestedt: area. the area of the panel area. yeah. right. right. Well. that's kind of regardless of the angle it's at. Unknown: yeah. Jesse Newberry: I think we can make that come across in the language here. Yep.
Unknown: should I keep going? Yeah. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: you should. So performance standards. we've got glare and noise and and talking about needing to do analysis. and we had talked at the last meeting about trying to make this less intrusive for a small applicant. So do we want to have different standards for what that analysis looks Yeah. when it's a small person. a small applicant. can they use the manufacturer specifications and medium and large requires expert analysis? Jesse Newberry: Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think I got that in the stuff further down. but not necessarily for this one. Yeah. a little easier for the small Yep. So. yeah. we can. we can address that too. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. And number three and number five. which are trails and wildlife and vegetation and pollinators. You know. who decides that is it? Is it the planning board. or is it ConCom? Because it's really a little outside of our wheelhouse. so it should have to go to ConCom for both of those when. when it's invoked. Jesse Newberry: I suppose we should talk to ConCom about that first before we try to put that in here. Anette Lewis: Herbicides are already prohibited under our bylaw. I believe we have a bylaw on herbicides. and probably look at that. and even with saying that we can't put it in wetlands. Unknown: is that our bailiwick to say that Anette Lewis: isn't that really more up to conservation if somebody for utilities. for example. you can do lots of work in wetlands. and you have to put down. What do you call it? Not raffia. but there's a woven mat. barrier material. not even a barrier. woven mat that you put down. and then you can ride across it and do what you need to do. And and somebody could claim that this is a utility.
Jesse Newberry: I think. I think I do think just having ConCom look at the whole thing is probably great idea. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. and number four. that drainage and stormwater management again. do we want to create a different standard for small versus medium and large. and then seven. oh. 7.5 which is the application requirements. And it says right in this sort of subheading. applicants. applications for site plan review or special permits. And then number one. three and five all have sections that are about small scale. So small scale is by right. and so they they shouldn't be in here for in this section about site plan reviews and special permits. they should have their own section for applications. so that it's more clear and they're separated out.
Unknown: And then Robin Borgestedt: number four talks about cessation. there should be some provision that the the owner has to notify the town when they've when they've ceased operation of this array.
then the battery storage systems talking about when it's active and on site. Blah. blah We have. it has to comply with fire codes. It should probably also have say building codes. because some of these are actually in a structure Jesse Newberry: to Larry's point with air conditioning. right? So. Robin Borgestedt: And then number four there talks about a typical utility infrastructure. And again. how is typical defined? How is it measured. and how is it certified? So and then in that last site plan review and permit findings. there's some language there about disturbance of wetlands. wildlife habitat. again and again. yeah. we have to see what. how we're going to do that. So those were my comments. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. no. they were all good. I guess. um. for the site plan section. Do we think. like. I should address the small installations above that in like. its own little spot for buy right applications? Yeah? Or do I just take it out. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. I think it should have its own section for buy. right. so that the building department has their marching orders as well. Yeah. okay. Jesse Newberry: all right. that's what I'll that's what I'll Anette Lewis: try to do there. Jesse in seven. Oh. 7.4 number one. the noise standard. Yeah. what? What is 130? Unknown: 9.2 what's Jesse Newberry: the it's basically just like. don't make too much noise in your yard. right? Robin Borgestedt: I thought you were gonna ask him to demonstrate with a yellow Anette Lewis: I think it's 198 then dash. But Jesse Newberry: I went looking for anything that talked about noise in a yard. And that's. that's right. Anette Lewis: And our state standards at the DEP on noise regulations. and I believe it says 55 dB at the boundary. So you might look at those and incorporate at least that reference to that section. or as as provided by the DEP. or something like that makes sense. Yeah. we don't for noise. We don't have good bylaw. Unknown: And every time we tried to do it. people have found that out. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: with one question. one issue with doing 55 decibels at the boundary for small applicants. that would be very difficult for them. To know if they're just using manufacturer specifications. So we may. Anette Lewis: yeah. it would be illegal anyway. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: law. right. So. but the small ones. if we do have a guideline. it could just say according to the manufacturer specifications. Anette Lewis: and DEP is requirement. because. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. well. we can use DEP is requirement. but instead of having them measure it at the boundary. they can measure it at the machinery where it's according to manufacturer specifications. Anette Lewis: no standard. Is the state standard. Robin Borgestedt: Okay? So that'll be difficult for a homeowner to assess what the noise level is at the boundary. Anette Lewis: If it's small. it shouldn't even get. yeah. I Jesse Newberry: mean. maybe it. maybe it should have a separate. Unknown: yeah. separate item for small. Jesse Newberry: What we're really Anette Lewis: concerned with 55 is. is high. okay? I mean. it's not insignificant. Unknown: yep. What is the set? Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: What is the noise you're talking about. the buzzing of the transformer someplace. Anette Lewis: It could be buzzing. Could be inverter arms. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: Could be the noise of the panels moving. you know. a motor like that. Anette Lewis: Okay. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I'm stuck on the size thing. If we can go back two seconds. what. what size. and if you're going to buy one of these things. does the manufacturer describe and do they say anything? You know. five by seven as measured by that kind of a thing or not? Jesse Newberry: It's really varied. IRA. unfortunately. I'm Robin Borgestedt: sure they provide a surface area of the panel. though. it Jesse Newberry: because a lot of it depends on. like. how efficient the panels are and what the and what the installation is going to give you. So. like. you can spend a ton of money and have a real small area and generate 10 kilowatts. or you can spend less money and have a larger area and still get 10 kilowatts.
Anette Lewis: And it depends on whether there are trees around or not trees. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. a lot of variables. right? And so that's why these towns haven't they. like. some of them haven't defined square footage or anything like that. They're just doing it like this. where. like. if you're less than an acre of land and your capacity is less than 10 kilowatts. here's your guidelines. Robin Borgestedt: Oh. but we have to have size. A way to measure size for our surface area requirements. right? And that's just the surface area of the panel it sounds like. Jesse Newberry: And that gets into the the Unknown: yard section below that. Jesse Newberry: And like I said before. I think we can do a better job of defining what the what the actual. like measured area should be. Unknown: So I'll try to get that in there too. This is great. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Jesse. yeah. it is really great. I'm just wondering. is there a peer review in the sense that someone who has. who installs these things that might have Jesse Newberry: an I would really like that. Ira.
Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: you're falling short of the one the work you've done. What's the wrong way he Anette Lewis: keeps trying to get the person who knows the most about this involved. and she's leaving so she's not getting involved. Jesse Newberry: Yeah. I mean. if we have to escalate up. or if we wanted to get somebody. even at the state level. to look at this from like. you know. DEP. or whoever. or energy. I should say we could probably do that too. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: I'm just saying. And even thinking about a company that installs this stuff to have them come in for. you know. a quick overview. And so what kind of things do you run into. and that kind of stuff. that's all. Jesse Newberry: yeah. not a it's not a bad idea. Anette Lewis: And the Energy Committee has that kind of contact. and there are people on the Energy Committee who do this kind of installation. Unknown: Oh. great. perfect. Yeah. I think we should do that. See. do you want to reach out to them? Jesse Newberry: Jesse. yeah. by no means. Am I an expert in this area. but I would love their. yeah. expert opinion anyway. So. yeah. I'll reach out. Great.
Anette Lewis: Ira and not Ira Larry and Robert for this year. Do we have to do anything for the flood plain stuff Unknown: with the Conservation Commission? Larry Kiernan: I have not heard back from them from our last discussion. Robert. have you heard anything on I haven't Robert Hummel: heard of any changes at this time. Unknown: I think that. Anette Lewis: I think that the two of you somehow need to. Follow up and get specific instructions from Linda of what we have to do. Because my understanding was. and this isn't dealing with the 193 necessarily regulations. It's dealing with the federal flood plain stuff they made. They did something. Maybe it was in the 193 regulations. I can't remember where they did it. and they just put stuff in. And we had seen from somebody at the state what we had to have in a bylaw. and some of the stuff that they said is already in our bylaws. just not in one place. because we would do definitions in one place in our bylaw. and then we would have a separate section that dealt with the implementation. and they had all this stuff crammed together. So if we need to figure out what we have to do. then we should so that we don't wind up losing the ability to have homeowners get the flood plain insurance. I'll double check. Yeah. you're going to need to push to make sure that we really understand exactly what we have to do. And then. between you and Larry. if you could work on it. that would be great. Unknown: Yep. yeah.
Anette Lewis: Is there anything else that anyone wants to talk about of a zoning
as we work our way through these when we're doing projects. you will find places where you can't understand what the by law says. So write them down. make sure we all talk about them. But I don't think we're technically able to do a total rewrite. because I don't think people would accept it. We did do a sort of rewrite a few years ago. but it wasn't. It actually created some more problems that I've come across that don't make sense. And somehow. maybe section by section. over time. we can get it into something that you could read easily. that the public could handle and not make it so difficult for people.
Unknown: Okay? Robert. updates. You want me to explain over amendment Robert Hummel: stuff? Yeah. So you have two applications. Next actually. next meeting. next month. tomorrow. 15. So buckle in. because it's me. It's me. A really fun meeting. You take that right now. just based on now the comments are getting in. So a refresher. the Dover Moon we're talking about. the board can can reasonably regulate the bulk the height of the structures. the yard size. lot of area setbacks. open space. parking and building coverage. So we just would remember. we're just talking about the things that we can regular. reasonably regulate. We're not talking about the use. We're not talking about. does it fit in neighborhood? All that stuff that doesn't. that doesn't play a part in here. So under Section 63 there's it talks about the areas where we can look at so we can look at the bulk and the height of the proposed structures and session accessory structures. the open space. the building coverage. the site. the yard size. the physical layout. the structures. driveway. parking areas. utilities and other infrastructure. and then the accuracy of the original parking loading area relations to the proposed use Unknown: on the site. So I will Robert Hummel: most likely do refresher that again at the meeting. and I will put that into both memos for both projects for the 15th. and I'm still going through the both applications and reviewing them with a fine call and trying to explain or get more answers done before the 15th occurs Unknown: from the applicant. For the applicant. Robin Borgestedt: yes. with with regard to height. Can Can you explain how you know. we can review height. But how does that? How does the Belmont case
Unknown: change that Robert Hummel: on. I think that case. they allowed it because. Robin Borgestedt: yeah. so the town was not allowed to limit the height of the steeple. But is it? Does it depend on whether there's sort of occupancy dirt in that area where the height is. or does it not. or Unknown: doesn't that? We have to go back. shaking your head. Can you tell us? Anette noi. Something. Anette Lewis: I can tell you what I thought the decision said. but I think it's a little different than what I thought. My recollection at the time that it happened was Unknown: that you can't limit the height Anette Lewis: just to match what you've got in your bylaw. They can go higher than that as long as. and this is the part that I'm not sure is correct. I thought it was as long as there was really a religious type of reason that you needed to reach up to the sky. You needed whatever. Unknown: if. for example. Anette Lewis: you needed fire suppression and you couldn't do it because it was too high and you did no way of getting at it. I think that's a reasonable regulation. Okay. so it's not that we're totally prohibited. but we have to be reasonable. and it has to be not conflicting with their religious practices. okay? Robin Borgestedt: Because I know from the Design Review Board meeting that we had that that's an area where we should be prepared to.
Unknown: I don't know. address questions. and we should be prepared to. yeah. do many questions? Yeah. at some point. is it worth Robin Borgestedt: maybe not now. but at some point. is it worth the board having preparing comments or an article to go in the newspaper about what the Dover amendment does and doesn't allow us to do Anette Lewis: I don't think we need to do that. I think the newspaper will do it. yeah. and we will begin the first hearing with an explanation of what the Dover amendment is under state law. what we have in our bylaws. Then my proposal would be to open it up to the applicant to do the presentation. because we have two of these on the same night. then board questions and then public questions. okay. Unknown: but I mean. What I did for the Anette Lewis: Veritas was at each meeting. I said. this is what we can control this just so that it's out there each time. right? And Robert. when he puts together the document for us. he's going to have the language of the statute. the language of the bylaw. And then for each of the things that we're able to regulate. he's going to have them on the chart. And then what our standards are in the bylaw. so that at least we have a good match. And then what. what the applicant is proposing is it doesn't meet it. Does it not meet it. so that we have something clear in front of us as we're trying to make the decisions. Robin Borgestedt: Yeah. I just feel like it would be helpful in terms of. I don't want to say. reigning in. but focusing public comment if we do see something in the in the in the Wayland post. that will help Unknown: understand Anette Lewis: what I can call the Wayland post. If they do it. I'm sure they're following Robin Borgestedt: it. yeah. and make sure they attend the meeting. And they can ask for the minutes afterwards. or the. you know. watch the recording and make sure that they are Unknown: just my sense. okay. yeah. no. I think so too.
Anette Lewis: Um. and we did the peer review stuff. um. are there any comments and concerns of the board?
Unknown: Okay. anything else Anette Lewis: at our next meeting. we've got the the two applications. the Coptic Orthodox Egyptian Coptic Orthodox Church and the Carroll School. and hopefully Two sets of minutes for 910. Unknown: and right and 917. 17.
Larry Kiernan: Number one. you think we'll get the applications? We have them. Unknown: They're online. online. Robert Hummel: If you want. please take heart. If you want any Harcourt plants. please take them. Yeah. they have copies. Anette Lewis: I picked up my own so that I could read. Larry Kiernan: All right. they're in your office. Unknown: yeah. for the hard and otherwise. they're available online. yeah. How many extras Have you got? I think one for everyone. Regulations say. yeah. Robin Borgestedt: Is there a particular? A time. Robert. when it's not good to come to the office and when. like you're. you're out to lunch every single day. or Robert Hummel: I'll be. I'll be in the office tomorrow. and I'll be back on next week too. I mean. right now it's just me in the office. because it kind of need us on vacation for two weeks. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: but. but. but the book is right there. right? You could see the pile and just grab it. Unknown: Well. the door is locked. Robert Hummel: Well. if you I also know if you're. if I know you're coming by. I can also put in the put outside the door. Robin Borgestedt: Okay. I'll see what my time looks like. Robert Hummel: Just email me. I'll let you know if I'm. if it's easier. that way they're valuable. you know. yeah. but yeah. they give me like 10 copies of each so it's. Unknown: it's a lot of. it's a lot of. there's a lot paper so Anette Lewis: and we also got an email today that said that there was a proposal from one of the consulting firms. but I think it's a virus. I'm not sure Robert Hummel: you should have received a following email. I got one as a follow up email from it saying. just to lead it. Anette Lewis: Oh. no. I didn't get one. Oh. is it from? I'm sorry it. oh. it was from MetroWest. Oh. the person. the person's name. was on Unknown: it. Don't click it. yeah. don't click it. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: Went to the entire board. Yeah. It went to the planning Anette Lewis: board. We have issues. Ira. with things going through Unknown: to you. yeah. Albert Ira Montague. Jr.: a lot of a lot of places selling things that. you know we have nothing to do with. you know. like you can get Robert Hummel: rubber strips. Oh. yeah. those my spam. I always see my spam I see this all time my spam
Robin Borgestedt: email came in. The email came in at three o'clock today from Patrick Arno. so just don't Larry Kiernan: open it. My office. They email us regularly with phishing emails. and if you open it. they kind of wrap you on and they Robin Borgestedt: do that with us. Big Larry Kiernan: thumbs up.
Robert Hummel: They did that a few they did a year ago in Wayland. Only the IT director knew that MIMO was going out and didn't tell his staff. and he just he put it out on purpose as a phishing email to see what. just to test the water. to see how it was. I'm assuming he meant town manager knew that's it. Now that was when people who knew that the fishing email was going out. so I obviously caught it instead of Taiji. right away. like I could tell which when they're fishing. it's very Larry Kiernan: fun though you're now you're looking for not to get the thumbs down.
Anette Lewis: Okay.
Robert Hummel: I did the question for you. Anette. I had someone coming in my office. I'm asking about a subdivision. and they had a few questions. and they I suggested to me to talk to you about the potential of a subdivision and and if these. if these waivers. we could be granted. potentially. if Unknown: a waiver could be granted. yes. Robert Hummel: so she's gonna send me an email of the the of the subdivision. She is trying to list a piece of property. and she just wants to know. like. is it likely that a subject could be built or not? Just because they need. they need some a lot of waivers. It's not a developer. or she's not looking to build it. She's trying to list the property. but she also wants to do a little research to know how. how to less Anette Lewis: we go so far. though. because we would have to be approving it. I mean. she should really just hire somebody and. Robert Hummel: well. I don't think she they want sending money. I think this one now it really has to go down to like. one to two waivers that I think be pointed just Fay to you. to personally waving is. do you think it's likely or not? Unknown: You couldn't answer it for her. It's kind of gray. Anette Lewis: That's why. Okay. why don't you? And I talk about what's gray and what's not and then you can talk to her rather than Unknown: me talking to her
Anette Lewis: better. because I it'd be uncomfortable if we had to then make A decision on her application. Unknown: Yeah. it's fine. Okay. Okay. Okay. all right. everybody. it's been fun. May I have I'm sure. Jesse Newberry: yeah. we did good. Unknown: I may have to adjourn. Okay. second All in favor. Ira Montague. yes. Jesse Newbury. yes. Robin Borg stead. yes. Larry Kiernan. yes. Anette Lewis. yes.
Recreation Commission
Unknown: Hey. let's call this
meeting Recreation Commission to
order Tuesday. September 16.
2025 and 20 am. It's a hybrid
Zoom meeting and the in person
in his main development.
Wayland. town building Road.
Wayland. Massachusetts. the
three. the hybrid viewer and
participate in hydro mean at
reserve. the chapter two. with the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in persons. and the quote is going to applicable law. This means even recorded which we made. as well cam as soon after meeting. as is travel required by law or allowed by the chair person's wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in a meeting. to do so by in person tenants. or by accessing a meeting remotely as noted request. public comments. two minutes per person. these times. approximately. items will not be discussed. and you are listed for a specific. specific time estimate. All this. the topics may be separate to deliberation and work. The agenda is a call of order. Include public comment. three minutes review and approve. Next is available on our August 19. 3025 meeting. FY. 26 goals continue discussion of commission. department goals and vision. budget request for fiscal year 2026 and fiscal year two through fiscal year 2030 the gospel vote the darkness. second at the last meeting. In report. the new discretion improved the fiscal year 2025 annual report due September 30. pursuant to town village. chapter 53. dash one. available do correspondence. if any one from the economic development committee regarding Town Center two. East Coast Sherman. Sherman Ridge Road and three DPW. regarding field maintenance. Commissioner. announcements. dash. slash. reports and concerns. Recreation directors. report. schedule our next meeting. date. potential agenda items. 310. topics not increasingly anticipated by the chair. 48. hours in advance of the meeting for him and number 11 adjourned in attendance today regarding Lisa Foster. stewards. my plan And the captain. our recreation there. So the public comment. We'll move right on three minutes review and approve. Minutes are available at August 19. 2025 they just came in. They're in their packets.
Look at please. Come on. agent. thank you.
I just have a question on the goals about the identifying Tom lane that we was suitable for dog park. I don't know if our goal would be better described as. you know. in support of the dog park committee is as needed by our patients. I don't particularly want to identify be the one pursuing the concept more in support of these other committees. I agree. I don't think it's in our purview be supportive of selective
up. support. committee. advocacy. yeah.
Yeah. something else. if
and you want
that reason absolutely
what I Say. I motion to approve the your second. second Second. Any discussion? Seeing? None. All in favor. All
um for fiscal year goals. discussion Commission. Department goals and related budget requests for school year 2026 the fiscal year. 2030 possible vote. They got this presented at the last meeting. So you look at the roller motion. Katherine Brenna: So I prepared a list that's in the packet with the goals. And you can see there's only four there. but the minutes reflect kind of a more comprehensive list. So I don't know which list you want to go on top of that. but I think it would be good to just finalize a list of goals. Well. see that. like in the minutes. there's a couple of other goals that weren't and it might just be my error. When I prepared this document in the packet. I took the list we used last time. and we had stricken a bunch. and so I left before that we're not stricken at on top. but then it. but it looks like these ones that. and I didn't go back and look at the tape when I was making this. So these ones kind of moved up additional suggested commission will be done into that. Unknown: So we look at these goals. one through four and then 14 through 18. We will have discussion in terms of which direction they want to go in terms of four plus five years be effectively the goals we have for this year.
Any comment on that.
Question is. do you do we as a group. look at these at least nine and say that's too many pursue. And
I don't think that in terms of looking at these goals. I don't think there's these goals are not. in my estimation. in in order of. I think it may be well. it may well be things that We deal with. first. second. third. not. not necessarily. I and Katherine Brenna: I just add that I think if we look into FY 27 when some of these might be accomplished and there is a need for a budget to support into those goals. then that budget would be submitted this fall. like between now and January. so that we would it.
Unknown: I know you've answered this before. and I'm sorry I don't remember. Why is it that the middle school is not part of our rotating playground?
Dr. keen. the playground? Yeah. there isn't. Why isn't the middle school field considered part of the fields that were Oh. it Katherine Brenna: is. it is. It's just a shared asset with the schools. obviously. And so it falls under the MOU where DEP W and the Board of Public Works correct department recognition. And the school committee and school department kind of share that space. It was in my time here. It was slated for complete renovation. probably around this time it moved in the capital plan for. I mean. the town is kind of played with some interesting capital planning strategies. We do have a new capital planning committee that has been established that will hopefully prioritize the needs of the field with needs of the entire town. But in general. like I submit a capital plan in the last two years. it was submitted either to DEP or facilities. and a lot of just doesn't make the cut. And so Middle School is not currently in the five year capital plan. but I do think it's in like six or seven. right the out here. six or seven. which would be 30 FY. 30 or 30. Unknown: So it's in someone's list. Katherine Brenna: It's on the radar. for sure. It is in disrepair. And I think that. you know. like we're renovating Alpine right now. and I think it would. it is the next motion needed field that needs. like. take it offline. But obviously we cannot take the middle school offline without assuming bull back. And so right now that
Unknown: doesn't exist that it Katherine Brenna: will help the Alpine. Can't replace the middle school entirely. because the Alpine is a single rectangular footprint. and the middle school has a baseball field and softball field.
Jeff Bergeron: And he says. like. could you do this like left side of the school where like baseball field is. and taking a bit like that hard and then take a red cyber Yeah. is there 600 years of not changing that seems like too long. and it's only gonna get worse? Yeah? Katherine Brenna: I mean. one year is too long. Yeah. there's budget constraints. and there's it's not just reps properties. full property. It's not right. Unknown: Is there like a comprehensive plan that actually lays that opposite like your outline. is number one. right now. This field is number two. This field's number three. like going like so 2027 or 2026 will be this field. Katherine Brenna: 2027 will be the rec department prepares annually a capital plan. and that plan prioritizes all 64 different field sites that have the 12 flag rounds priorities and. you know. sketches them out in the capital plan. It's a massive Excel document that I'm having to share with this group. I use portions of that to submit to the capital plan every year. And that's what I was talking about. that we submit our needs to the capital plan. They don't always make it. And so historically. in the last four or five years that I've been here. the budgets have been. you know. pretty capped at a level service budget. And very few big ticket capital projects have gone in since the lower project or the high school saving project. So like I said. they are in the out years at this point. because they just keep Unknown: getting down the road. but Katherine Brenna: the town is recognizing this is an issue. and that there are kind of family facilities across the board. and has since the last time meeting. established the Capital Improvement Planning Committee. which had its first meeting last week. Unknown: Right? So there's a
Katherine Brenna: group of talents. kind of tasks. like. do we want to spend $1.5 million on 14 West lane? There's a better student to spend it at the middle school? And kind of prioritize those plans. But we Yes. the rec department has a plan that is based on the condition of the field and Unknown: bouncers. Do you sit in on the capital planning committee meetings? Does anybody on the recognition? Katherine Brenna: No should we? There was a discussion. There was a task force that I sat on ahead of that capital planning committee. where different board members. their school committee reps. ConCom Select Board. There were probably the 12 people were all parties were represented. It was decided among the group that staff would not be on the committee. as it is subject to over Meeting Law. And it was requested that recognition beyond that group. And ultimately decided that. I Unknown: think if you put Katherine Brenna: a recognition member. then you also need a portal. The board of reports in the library. and then they get right. So one of the rules is. actually the people in this committee cannot be members of any other committee. And that was a Tom meeting. again. wasn't approved last year. Okay? So. like two at large members that can be assigned by the Select Board. So it's like recognition has somebody that felt like there would represent recreations interest. they could put that person up to the Select Board to be appointed Unknown: to them. So who's on? No. I don't know. I know. I believe Kelly lane. who's former Chair of the Finance Committee. is element and. Katherine Brenna: You obviously made me feel overly he also from the finance committee. I don't know it's really new. and it's kind of those seats are being filled pretty quickly. So this is something that we can attend. and just it's a public meeting. So the same way that we are subject to opine law with public meetings. and Unknown: so is it similar to the game? Similar to the ABC that the folks are appointed by?
Yeah. could we recommend a name to the Select Board to absolutely serves on it? Yeah. I think by the week they're filling receipts now. could we possibly recommend someone like Broadway?
Yeah. I mean. that
is important. Yeah. I mean. that is. yeah.
I don't even know if there are open seats right now. but it's
Mark Norton: working crazy call Brother. if we have an open seat.
Unknown: I think
maybe as a board. you know. the middle school question that I brought up was captured under the DEP W field maintenance. and then also increased awareness by recreation of sideboards that are serving on our behalf. So this new group. so maybe the goal could be our increased presence. Katherine Brenna: I don't know. I'm happy to share that. Like. what our internal plan is that we submit through the channels here. but in the last few years. those submissions don't actually make for whatever reason. and sometimes the CPC is part of that as well. because of capital projects that through the CPC. And I think there is movement now to get those CPC projects also in front of this other capital planning committee. so that they can be balanced with Unknown: the overall capital.
Katherine Brenna: But I think that something like the middle school. it's bigger than that. right? It involves school uses it as far as part of the curriculum. the PD and different uses there. So you can't just hold it. I'll take it offline and do a repair without a solid Unknown: so this. this. this meeting is controlled by select board next to me. so I can reach out to our representatives. what's the procedure? Katherine Brenna: Yeah. and periodically. the Select Board issues over the scenes that are available for LinkedIn. And I believe there's exercise.
Mark Norton: So my only critique with the goals is that we should have a metric to show achievement. So. collaborating with the DEP W on field maintenance. What is that? What a successful collaboration? Is it we as a group are able make sure that we're having somebody present at some functional work. What is that? I think. just going through the list. they're like. supporting the doc projects. our projects. I think we did that last session. right? Yeah.
Unknown: Right. Without support? Mark Norton: Yeah. but is there anything else we need to do to show achievement of that goal? So if we look back a year from now. Unknown: like. well. Jeff Bergeron: do we need to. like. email that and saying. like. as part of our permission. I'm part of the discussion and after your presentation. you have to support directly to be able to proceed whatever process you have. And then we can take this goal and mark it as complete. and it shows completion. Unknown: So I think we're done with our goals. Yeah. Number two. is it completed? If there is no ballpark. yeah. Jeff Bergeron: I mean. I think our goal is to support the dog project. and we've shown our support. we've been able to offer that. We've. you know. put it in writing as part of. like. you know. our pleasure. and that's one of the things that we do want to encourage. And if there's a follow up. we can add that to the future agenda. But I think that I agree with Mark. and we need to be able to have there be some type of natural critique is 12 and ones are redundant. so continue to borrow members to better maintain fields and collaborate with de W. I'm feeling they can stand while you MOU is pretty much the same joy. Feel like 12 could 12 the middle are Katherine Brenna: kind of our department mental. and so a lot of times they do dovetail or kind of overlap in that way. And I think that they should. but we do a lot of coordination with the PW in house to make what happens happens. And so I wouldn't strike it on the right department. because it is alright too. But I do think it is a real to be aware of that. because I know that the commission that doesn't stand it has a feelings about the different fields out there. like whether middle school or Alpine. and that we managed to have a say the capital plan that goes through the channels. you know. and it's especially with the middle school. It's a collaboration with the school committee. the work of the works. and now the plan can planning committee. so that. I think you all should have a Mark Norton: secret so in the collaborating. I mean. would we change that to really. what we want To have is Unknown: clarity Mark Norton: as to what's happening in those school field right? What needs to be done to get there. and kind of each as we think about all these different fields that things. programs that were supported. what are we doing? I think just clarity that people want. right? Like you go to middle school field. you're not happy with it. It'd be excellent for us today. 2028 it's in the program to be funded by this. and if you need to go to town meeting to support that. we can also say it's in the book for 28 but you need to make sure you're there for 27 to go for it. It's not a gift. or maybe it is. again. I don't know. but that makes Unknown: sense. Yeah. Jeff Bergeron: way to get any type of like. I guess. progress report for fields from DEP W of priorities. Katherine Brenna: they recently sent out. It's in the package there. you know. they said that. a press release essentially on what they're working on right now. which is in line with our capital planning internally. What we came to an agreement on is the renovation of alpine field. high school girls softball. varsity baseball and played adding irrigation five and six. And so those projects are all in the works for this fiscal year. which is great. but then. yeah. like in the out years. And so the capital plan is published in the Lawrence that gets the literature rooms now. So you can the average resident. if they're not sure where the middle school could be renovated. could look at the capital plan and see where that shakes out. But I believe. like I said. we've been putting before capital planning for a while. The town has historically just planned for the next fiscal year. you know. loosely planned out of the out years. Yeah. they are getting better at that. and so that. yeah. a five year plan would definitely help the community understand. so when they get that would be able to disrepair. they understand where it is in the pipeline. and that maybe that's not the worst. you know. yeah. Unknown: is the five year plan in your estimation going to be sort of desperate. based on What we currently remember. with
respect to the mwrase Defendant? What's going to happen. and then taking those out years will be more accurately. which Katherine Brenna: way I would say. as we sit here today. there's the out years probably aren't. Will be accurate. but I think with the work of this capital improvement plan. they are tasked to firm up the fire. So this year we should see one that's probably more reliable than being asked. which is great. absolutely. But there are. there is like a compliments of financial expenses coming out of town. WRA and there's there was a push. I know you've known for a while to build an indoor facility at 195 main street. which has triggered a lot of environmental work that's happening now. and some of it is expensive. the remediation that needs to happen at 195 The town is challenged to Unknown: find ways to pay for Yeah. I don't know anybody else Commission has any conversation with anybody quiet.
Katherine Brenna: I think there's an LSP task of looking at how to remediate that within the time frame the DEP requires and how to fund it. And so I think there was just waiting to see what that
Unknown: shit that's your proposition. right? Katherine Brenna: And so that. and that is honestly why some of our field projects get pushed out into the outward years. There are priorities. and I would say drinking water. there's a big one that's going to outweigh any kind of grass field projects. Now is Unknown: discussion with DPW for enough along to understand how they're approaching over Katherine Brenna: Yes. they have a plan to look for. They had it assessed by some soil experts. and they have prescribed a maintenance plan. And they respond that maintenance plan. it does take time. PH. in the soil. And. you know. pH. changing the pH in the soil takes years. and so. I mean. it's vital right now. we have groups out there using it. It's. you know. it's not the best field in town. and it should be. but there were Unknown: expenses of mine in
Katherine Brenna: order to maintain that. yeah. yeah. they're being covered by
Unknown: do we add the DEP W deal meetings as a repeating item in our agenda? Maybe we have someone go to each meeting so we can kind of report and share that information internally. so we all know what's happening. How do we how do we make this an item we can feel good achieving at the end of the game? Well. I think that the cabinet has has regular contact and interaction.
probably more than she would like. Maybe. What did you
Jeff Bergeron: visit the thing that came out on the third which was great to be able to see what progress is. That's something that it's actually like part of the review. we're part of the discussion. I think that would be great. I mean. just looking at it. it's like. I remember. I mean. I had a conversation with Jennifer said about high school girls softball field. and that was the first that I heard that they had something that was already in work. So this company was. I mean. within a week. irrigation was already installed. and it was great. But not knowing that. I think. creates a lot more questions. where it would be great to see. not only like. what's the worst. but also what's coming up. I also like. and then also. if there's a way for us to get to have any sort of input. just looking at like fields. five and six for clay fit as being improvements in irrigation. But even though those are probably the most played on fields. I also feel those are probably the two of the best fields of all. So why did we decide to do five and six as opposed to leveling eight for cleaning up nine and 10 or like. 11. Like. why we're. why was that decided Katherine Brenna: that's like that. That was the easiest way. and on short money and short labor be able to provide irrigation for five and six. We're. like. completely renovating a. a is more disruptive. but B. it was a. there were logistical challenges. especially because of the school that's operating. that's behind the school. So there are reasons. and I think sometimes the general consensus from the community. I think. is that that generally DEP does have a plan. and there are reasons behind their plan. but nobody knows they are and so people are and so people are standing out to feel kind of scratching. Why is this this way? And then. like I said. After a quick conversation with DEP W that you get your answers. but it would be easier if those answers were more readily available. Jeff Bergeron: Here's what's in progress. here's what's coming up. And then we discussed. Unknown: what. if? What if we made the DPW real situation. a standing agenda and and that we would get some type of report from the DPW. especially. what's been accomplished since this July. I think. yeah. and I think their plan is to Katherine Brenna: regularly provide incentive updates. And maybe that's all we. maybe. maybe we. I don't know. How you want to get those reports? Unknown: It could be from directly. I can find out from them and compare something. whatever. whatever. whatever is most effective and easiest. Because you guys. you meet with them regularly. numerous times. So in preparation for. I mean. we have something before. I
think
it's our biggest visibility item for the town. You know. there's another Tom meeting. They're going to want us to speak on it. and we really have to be up today.
Katherine Brenna: Another avenue that would help keep you performed is potentially this commission participating in the capital planning that happens. or even just like a review of it. which hasn't historically happened at these meetings. but like having to share like
Unknown: that. yeah. And. you know. we're all kind of. I'm new on this board. and I've just kind of learned. okay. which lists are starting to be on and Okay. which part of which meeting do I need to attend? And I think. you know. I think we're really getting there as a group. and maybe right now more fostering their foot how we can spread out and figure this out. I
Jeff Bergeron: think that we. I agree with this. I think that we add a standing agenda item that is. you know. discussing. you know. field maintenance and DTW updates and MOU updates. and either what's in progress and what's planned stuff. and if there's a way to be able to provide any input. you know. we can discuss at that point. And then additionally. I think that having the Capital Planning Committee. having there be some type of person that passes the liaison between. you know. possibly them. I think. would be very Unknown: helpful in terms of that. all that. and then he wants.
I think. probably yes. Okay. so we all screwed away. Oh. I think maybe we had a little rerun in terms of what went on last night at 14 West Windsor So. Leslie and I were both there. and I think that the number of folks in chatting. and there are a number of folks who spoke very much in favor of what we're doing. as far as asking with another woman whose name I did not get you also.
no. well. Chris Reynolds is speaking as a practice. yeah. and the other woman was speaking As a looking at it from the perspective it's an opportunity to purchase your property that has a lot of attributes that could be used by a lot of different ways. And I was advocating for recreation relocated there recreation needs. They were saying that it was something like $200 per square feet to take over this property that currently existed. versus the $800 per square foot to find new Oh. yeah. Well. that goes to costly communist. So this. this property is. and I don't know whether any of you folks had an opportunity to have a tour so. but when you do. it was done. saying. literally. in very good condition. Uh. does not need much in terms of upgrades. Um. handicapped accessible and well. it doesn't have an elevator. There are ramps that allow folks with disability to access all especially building. This is everything the library was interested in offering new services and collaboration with recreation the library and we. we can make this happen at the library and recreation tenants in that building. we can. Know in the library at all. We were here this morning. discussed this. and then we could move forward with further discussion. And then it really is having a select board said that they were going to make a decision in terms of what they want to do. pursuing the property by the end of the month. So that's Yeah. and I just want to add in the people who were against the acquisition were saying that the it would take the property out of a commercial zone and into a municipal zone. and the last and you come to the town. would be considerable. It doesn't make any
difference. plus the staffing cost to. you know. upkeep trash and clean bathrooms and sure and all this. bits and pieces that
position but I don't know whether you would address this. whether we would have an opportunity go and Take a look.
Take a look at the building. We
Is
Jeff Bergeron: there any commercial interest in the building? Unknown: Right now. the building is on market. Along the building. at this particular one time. would be willing to wait to recognize the briefer to do anything about this building the approach Tom me through the town again. because. because it deals with funding. and so April that when we decision would be made. and then that would be contingent upon it going forward. So forward. so there's plenty of time to figure out what we what we would like to do. but I think for sooner that we can get in there and see what's available to us for collaboration with the library. I think that would go a long way to determine
my concern was. you know. what happens when depression. if the rec department itself moves to this building? How would it be detrimental to that department to sever. you know. proximity of being in the town building and amongst other Tom employees. and being down the call from the town manager. Will that be an issue. but. but maybe it's the one department. it wouldn't hurt as much as other departments. And then also vacating the space. you know. Council of aging just vacated record. Then be vacated? What? How would that space be used? And does that make sense? My opinion. the reason the consular region left the region recreation. Jeff Bergeron: I know Weston has that whole separate they have their Yeah. it's amazing.
I mean. I would definitely be available to walk in and see. would the party owners be able to. like. maintain it until. like. it's town meeting and it's nothing. nothing can happen until July. Are they willing to. like. maintain the building. or the next nine months. they're still living there. So it looks like it was actually driving by. So I wasn't sure that I thought they left the building. I just want to make Unknown: sure that there's some segments there for eight months. Yeah. Jeff Bergeron: occupying it right now? Yeah. Okay. Unknown: so my question regarding commercial basket. Jeff Bergeron: like interest is like only because I know that I don't know what that what goes into that space. right? That's right next to that gas station has been empty and for at least for 10 plus years. and I would hate for Super. you know. anything to pass and have it be an additional eyesore that's on that corner just sitting there. So. yeah. yeah. Unknown: exactly. Jeff Bergeron: Or what was better for CBS? I mean. it was like. there's so many things that just sit there and get over grown. I would hate for this to be another one. Unknown: Because addition of this particular. I think. Captain. if you could. if you could reach out and see if we can get An update for us. Um.
good.
So
looking at this agenda. whether you want to cover anything twice Main Street.
Katherine Brenna: So it was listed as an additional suggested goal. and I think that was from prior years and interest in the property. Like I said. I think we are in a waiting game the some of the remediation needs to be completed by this November for mass DEP. But like I said. the town is looking at fun the remediation that has to happen there. There's pink bass. there's soil contamination. There's groundwater contamination. They're not saying that developing that land is impossible. so it's. you know. it is possible. but the price tag is potentially an issue. It's also not broken lane. It is causes. Unknown: Well. actually. it was. historically. it was dpwr Lane. And then if. when that whole issue was suggesting they move to the new facility. DPW stated. they'll be more than happy to relinquish their responsibility. So if recreation. the schools and a library become your agreement in terms of how the facility that property of youth. and actually we did. but then the library get turned down. The library get turned down after this August. into a state of trust. So I now is now.
Mark Norton: I think what's important 195 days relates to this group. is the RFP that the Select Board will put out for whoever will develop that site for that athletic facility. And I do think it's important that this group participate in that evaluation. so that the ARPA accurately reflects the needs of the community. rather than just. you know. being financial in nature. So addressing. you know. all age groups. multi generational access. all those items. So if we have a goal. I want to make sure that if you're talking to Doug anyway. understanding where they are in that process of RFP development and how rec can be involved in the development of the architect. I think it's
Jeff Bergeron: definitely a goal that stays on here. It may just be one of those that doesn't happen in 26 it stays on here. So that Unknown: way it's constantly discussing much more definitively. Well. for the mediation cost side. yeah. and then whether we move forward the remediation consensus. billions of dollars. with all the other fiscal aspects of their community of that currently. yeah. yeah. yeah. because there's no one. no. no one is going to want to come in here and and operate that facility. It's going to cost them million dollars up front. I think that's nothing. Yeah. yeah. but thanks.
Anything else in terms of goals. so I have so far that we said number one that. Collaborating DPW. we touched on that. supporting the dog park. but we land on any
Jeff Bergeron: actual tangible goals. on how we might be able to do that. So we're not going to identify the land. but once. once they do. what can we do. other than. you know. maybe send a letter somewhere saying Unknown: that. from my perspective. that would be what we can do. We could throw our support as a commissioner. We could throw our support behind it. But I don't think that we have any other
Jeff Bergeron: I think I think we just I think we get needed. We can either let them. we allow whoever is on that committee to be able to say that they have the support of the recognition as part of their process. If they need something in writing. you know. I have no problem sending an email saying. you know. just so that way you have it. You know. we discussed this where it's worth it. but I think that that's one of those necessarily need to be involved at this point I was showing support. We can do that. We can sort of loop it as a. you know. in progress or near completion Unknown: task. and also thinking what would happen. I think it would be an article next year. So I think we can certainly support as part. as part of the opportunity. Yeah.
we keep in three and four. I thought those dropped off the list from the last meeting. but I think I suggested the global opportunities. I don't I think the big ball community is pretty content. and until they reach out and think it's something different strike that
Jeff Bergeron: doing. I was. I wasn't sure if that included like. you. type like. encourage. not like. doing any type of like. rep. type of all like. yeah. like. youth opportunity. especially if. like. if field off. you Were going to a private Is that something that sort of fills that athletic void of field coffee is there. you know. becomes like a rec program or something like that? Katherine Brenna: I think that we can capture the goals of this item within rec department goals. So. like just your normal program assessments. I don't necessarily think it needs to be a priority. Unknown: And Lauren is happy to talk. if necessary. my wife about erase that after our last meeting. she's happy to if that would be helpful.
Thank and now bottom this. 1415. 1617. 18.
Well. Wesley started working on number 14. which is great. She provided some documents that voted this morning. That Katherine Brenna: on the agenda for next meeting. If the commission is an agreement that this could be a goal. Unknown: I think that's actually Jeff Bergeron: that would be one of the priority goals. There's a lot Unknown: discussion about evaluating fuel costs and fee schedule that I think is an ongoing. ongoing issue.
Yeah. we just need to be apprised and aware of what your recommendations are and how we do. Katherine Brenna: And I think once we once the commission voted the new policy and we rolled it out. there were some pickups and some groups that couldn't understand how they fit in. but I think we've ironed out a lot of those issues. So I don't necessarily think it's necessary to go back and change any way that it was building. but as we continue to use it and learn new things. we might have amendments the next time we look at it. but I would say we should look at it manually. Mark Norton: Yeah. So I. I agree with that. ideally. and CPC as well. I think this board would probably be aware of what is going forward there. What's the scheduler that works best for you on both the field fees. the timing got kind of like tricky last year. So what are we best in the year? Just to address it for you on both of those fronts. Katherine Brenna: So for the field policies. I think it's best to do in the office. You don't want to feel the clothes. So closed. so in January and to go into effect either that following spring. or do I want this year. just so people can budget and all that. I think that a general review of the capital planning. During the budget season. which is when the fall is best. So that potentially our fall right meetings would have some kind of review to the capital planning. which should include CDC projects submitted by the commission. But I know at some point the CPC also looks to the recognition. to look to opine on applications that are not presenting. and that happens again in the fall of December. We could swap that into the agenda October. and then a few of ones in December. Unknown: Okay. yeah. I think submissions. And mid November. I think December. So it is Katherine Brenna: in line with kind of the capital clinic in general. and so we could take a review of the entire department's capital plan as we submit it through channels. and potentially identify projects that would be suitable for students.
Unknown: I think we really need to carve out some time and see if we see this here. because I felt like that was over. Was rushed through. I was new to it. I didn't understand and we yeah. we need to really review each item.
priorities. review each other. Priorities. submitted and
then become familiar with the Open Meeting. I don't know how many open meeting rock training. so being historically in this town has been a real issue. not for recreation. There's been a real issue for other doors. and we call on traffic numerous times and as board members and town for over so in our best interest that everybody takes a look at The over mer thing and just complete it. So we've done our due diligence as far as that's concerned. and understand where we are with respect to having open gates. one of the biggest areas that we need. And I don't think. I don't think anybody is looking at the Recreation Commission as consistent violators of the opening. and I don't think they're looking at us. Well. we can. we can make points by your email. For beneficial for us to make sure we don't fall so it takes probably half an hour. 45 minutes in the country with and one of the biggest violations that we do have is answering emails they can't. Can't answer emails for the entire board they haven't posted. then your family having that.
absolutely you do a very good job and you Always have to carry out. Please don't respond to all that's Katherine Brenna: the other big one that I think is getting hit with is discussing or acting on items that aren't specifically if you kind of get outside of the scope of the agenda item. So this board hasn't been other boards. So yes. just remind you want to really talk about something in a meeting. or even because you vote on it. just shoot us an email. Unknown: yeah. or for something you just come up with last minute talking to it's easy to list Katherine Brenna: something as a vote and not be ready for the novice.
Unknown: Okay? So. yeah. Steve Calvin. Are good. but yeah so.
okay. annual report. review. discussion and approval of the fiscal year. 2025 annual course through September 30. pursuant to town flow. Chapter 53. one. if available. and they are relatively known about it. And I feel like
I did not go back to make the ends. I don't remember. Just Well. so do you want me to say like
so it says in the CBC commission that committee the last line fiscal year 2025 CBC and Tom voters funded improvements to Cochituate ballpark. That was fiscal year 2024 and last year in 2025 sorry. we did the York Road trail on the Tom building the ground so we had 400.000 to the town building playground. and something like 33.000 to the York Road trail. the last 70. like the last time. I'm not sure if that's 126 so then if it's FY 26 then I feel like that should not list me. because that's not my turn. That would have been have been Kelly. That was just like. so you're understanding ground up. I'm just beginning. and so I put
25 of your birth right? Yeah. maybe I'm wrong. but no.
what does FY 25 end? 26 begin? FY 26 begin on July 1.
So maybe I was present for that. That
would have been July 24 to.
Yeah. Things you're talking about Yeah. so. so this was. I looked this morning. and it was on the annual Tom meeting 2024 list. the 154.000 to constituent ball fields and softball fields. and then the 296 in the DEP with people. Katherine Brenna: So you're saying you weren't on the CPC when that was okay. Unknown: that was at the 2024. annual time meeting. But I'm not sure if that's considered. I think that's considered.
I will go back and get this very
so it should on July 120. 25 we voted in favor of reappointing Leslie ending. June 30. 2026.
right. that's FY 26 this is the FY 25 report. Katherine Brenna: So. so on my first 24 we had a meeting. and what would you do to be the CPC back? Right? So that is the entire duration of FY 25 but. yeah. So that's sentences. true. but you're it is unrelated to the FY 25 approval that happened to Tom made that Unknown: year. right? Because it was supplier term. But okay. so we Katherine Brenna: could restructure it just so it like the first sentence true. yeah. and the last sentence was true. but they were not related. right? So we could say maybe something like in. in the prior term. yeah. the CPC before these projects. Because if Unknown: you're going to list my term there. I think you would list the North Road Trail and the Tom building playground.
correct my 25
All right? Thank you.
Grammatical. yeah. I
hope that's up. Would someone make a motion for two the annual reports in September of
25? Assume the town called chapter 53 dash one. and with with
the amendments to the CPC recession. my second. Are there?
Commissioners. announcements and reports and concerns
and I would like to say that the CDC committee is meeting tomorrow. and unfortunately I'm unable to attend. And I was wondering if anybody from this committee would be able to attend to my place tomorrow at 630 I plan to submit a summary of the recreation CPC funds what's been completed. but I Just don't love that there's totally out of space. without recreation mind. just it's usually very formal. So where the first meeting. they're just kind of setting things. but I don't know Katherine Brenna: if it's appropriate. or someone could go in your seat. just from an informative standpoint. So it kind of. I don't think that they could participate in the conversation. or both. Unknown: They can't go. Yeah. but it's more just as a placeholder to remind them. uh. recreation and care to help.
Hello. you're I think it's a very. very short meeting. I remember the last time our first meeting. we didn't have enough time to pass the cookies all the way around the table. so
it worked.
Mark Norton: No no. we're hosting for people that are in town. so I can't really.
Unknown: yeah. no. I'll provide a written summary of our progress to you. And Susan. yeah. nice. yeah. yeah. it has been
consistent Wayland town building that I see right now.
A lot more
i The other thing I just wanted to say is. I did look at a few sites with the dog park committee. and their number one priority is. I'm not sure if it's changed from their website. but they they really liked that small plot of land right behind Ace Hardware. which was previously offered to the town from for $100 but that. I think that Tom meeting. we didn't accept the land. So I'm not sure if there's any. they have any right to that land. It's just. it's where the the the of the touch of chocolate. That was how there's a little pasture right there. a little green space that's. you know. under used. and would be just so that plastic. if it was improved.
Okay. they don't need very much. I mean. they're. they're not looking for much. Well. we're looking at recreation. They're looking for two spaces. Yeah. they. they saw that little field and thought that would. yeah. that side for both if they could manage that. which is that. Jeff Bergeron: The two spaces aren't necessarily in two separate areas. It's just like. maybe. like an offense that would divide so that we have an area so. but it
Unknown: would be they could be all in one area. Yeah. they're really interested in that too. And. yeah.
so I encourage them to attend those meetings.
I went to see the Sherman bridge. road bridge. I took 10 minutes last Friday. It's absolutely stunning. Anybody should go there and improve your day. It's so peaceful. so beautiful. The bridge itself is really lovely. The wood. it's just. it's. it's calming. And there. you know. there is a boat ramp. the twos. and who are fishing there? When I went. there were two or three fire crews there when I went. which is some amazing thing to happen in 10 minutes. the mass.is has a proposal to improve the bridge By structurally silver.
So we are state of disrepair. Yeah. it needs some repair. It's very clear that they want to repair it by making it suitable for cars. not so much suitable for the in. you know. the environment that it's in. So they want as many cars as possible to be able to go as heavily and fast as possible. So they want to do is.
Is called the name. so I got it. It's blue Lane plus asphalt combo. So it's like a petrified wood that looks pretty on the outside. but the asphalt combo is just like putting the idle right on top. so that that like pleasing sound of a car kind of going over the nice bridge like that's all lost. and it's gonna happen. if you can just tell that Mass DOT wants to change it for their purposes. not for environmental purposes. And I think. I think a lot will be lost if they do do that. civil and original. or heavy trucks to take that route. which some trucks might avoid it because of the wood bridge. it's going to encourage people to go faster. I think it would be nice to have some sort of speed tempering measures in the neighborhood. or bridge. You know. lower speeds encourage lower league vehicles. But I don't know. I'd just be interested to see what comes up at but. Katherine Brenna: yeah. no. it's and Doug stops. Is he still. I think so. Yeah. he wrote a letter to this commission asking for recreation permission support in this so potentially not to go back to reopen the goals. But if the submission is interested in supporting that. then maybe it should be wonderful. Building.
Unknown: I don't know. I wasn't sure how much of it was recreation. I mean. I know bikers go over it and bikers use it. but like. what sort of space to control and that? Katherine Brenna: Yeah. I don't think it's any of those actually wrap land. But he doesn't make an argument that it is a recreational aspect and that the recognition should take. I The Jeff Bergeron: recognition should take that very quick. That looks like it was approved for Community Preservation Act funds anything ever come from that. Unknown: Not that I know about it was in Jeff Bergeron: town meeting time. meeting in 2022 when voters approved to use the Community Preservation Act. So they purchased that area. Oh. and now it needs more to be able to get Unknown: So apparently there's a. like. a goat shed. There's a small house that's right there. I was speaking to conservation about. you know. the Tom when they need some goats to get rid of the poison ivy. And she's like. Oh. we approach it. and we just bought that. and then we just get somebody to mind the goats in the weekend. So not our problem for now. yeah. But I'm not sure if it's the same or. yeah. Jeff Bergeron: I think that's like. a separate car than. like. just outside the acre? Unknown: Think so. I'm not sure. though. but yeah. I think it's a watch the space.
Did anybody respond to the dep.no one responded. No. Oh. I. I told Doug that I would take a lot. Okay. yeah. so. yes. yes. I did acknowledge Doug in that way. but not officially. That's part of it.
Mark Norton: Sorry. I agree with supporting it again to give some good follow up progress perspective. How do we engage in what can we do with it's a mass got problems.
Unknown: Oh. I think it's whether the road launch is in Katherine Brenna: our purview or and whether a biker's right of Unknown: way is something that a person's right to natural beauty. I don't know. Mark Norton: Yeah. I appreciate. and I know. I know it's fine.
Unknown: and I agree with him. I just want to be able. in our capacity. to do something
to be discussed.
and we could add Katherine Brenna: Amber work. like I said. potentially it's
relevant. Sure. I think the Unknown: meeting about this on October 1. Mary select quarters. have I made full arm? Is that right? A full run.
is that right? Katherine Brenna: I haven't heard October 1. It could be Doug wrote us all an email on August 27 that said it was two weeks ago. So as of two weeks ago. it had been scheduled. but I
Unknown: you want to
Katherine Brenna: a summer. there's a nice write up with everything we did in the right. right up in the way we post the record permit. that's about the beach and the camps and fields and all fun stuff to hit the summer of letting me down in here on time. our fall program registration open end in August for pretty good numbers we have we two years ago. we created direct task program to help support the wait list of The base programs. The base program has since resolved its weightless issue. which has pretty much eliminated the need for us to provide after school program that would be also running Wednesdays. which is early Wednesday and super Wednesdays. so that we're starting to roll out programs in the community center. We have chess lessons happening over there. some babies in courses. We had our coaches meeting for the field hockey parents out up there. Really cool space. and we're excited about it right now. In September. we're all working towards this swim festival on fourth it's going to be a really. cool event. It's historically. we've done touch and truck. which is extract some cool community partners that put on an event that this year we're partnering with the hrda. who's putting on a multicultural pavilion on artist marketplace. Wayland Arts is coordinating some live music on stage. which is going to be pretty awesome. And the red 250 committee is also planning a parade that will kick off in the morning ahead of touch drop. It's pretty cool. There's going to be food trucks here. beer garden. kids activities. something like that. It's going to be big. We got some data from our last touch truck was through about 3200 visitors to the events. and so we anticipate that this one will be much bigger. Um. I believe they're working on that. I don't know. I haven't seen that. Unknown: Um. On. We already Katherine Brenna: talked about the analysis. We're working very closely with DEP W to get fields in better condition and stretched appropriately and ready for games each weekend. The beach is obviously closing the season. but we're doing some of our all prep stuff to get the building ready for next season. and closing off season. we do still have a handful of events that happen in the fall. Our crew is planning a series of new school fun nights. as they call them. or youth nights. with plan police and the family services. The first one is actually coming up at the end of this month. It's going to be for sixth graders Middle School. It's kind of a social night. And then there's a couple of trips planned after that. which is
Unknown: really exciting. The Katherine Brenna: ones. the one on the winter will be to me show the valley. I think they're talking in October buffalo. which is in some kind of Halloween inspired event. middle school students.
26 annual fishing derby that happened this past spring. and volunteer that has made that happened. That event happened for 26 years. Tom Antonella said. decided to. we'll call it retired from that event. And so we're working with our teams. Team are kind of working to see there's a way to keep going to Wakeland. because it is a very popular event. Helen says. going on for a long time. Unknown: Um. so we hope. we hope to keep that alive with TBD. Um. we are working Katherine Brenna: with the playground designer on the children's way playground. which should go to bed this fall. We're working with the associates on the design working through ballpark. varsity baseball. Now. find her underway. and then we have been involved some of these 14 plain street conversation. Not all we have the balls that are in the air right now. just just for general programming. it was you. Unknown: Question actually. because for the CPC meeting coming up. they're going to want to know if we have used all the funds have been allocated to us in the last three years. Katherine Brenna: So to some degree. yes. For example. the two years ago. they appropriated money for the town beach entry way and playground is completed in our use. and we installed 80 cents of that appropriation
and the beach entry project. Most of that work is done. but there is still some work to do there. So we do expect some expenditures to happen. but also that there will be a turn back to the CPC. So the bid for the fence actually came in way after that. we will be Unknown: able to turn some money back there
Katherine Brenna: and the CPC funded the town. Yes. this town. which. like I said. should go to bid this fall. and once it's been the construction is like a six to eight process. So by the time CPC goes to the next round of voting. but that should be
Unknown: resolved. We Katherine Brenna: have to coordinate this preschool that is housed in this building uses that as part of their curriculum even in the winter. So we need to kind of work around your schedule. So we have to work. There's no good times to figure
Unknown: out the it out. But hopefully Katherine Brenna: this this one a little bit challenging because it's in the weapons and there's some other factors that go into it. but we're working Unknown: through Saturday
or Yeah. there was money for the payments. Does that mean. Katherine Brenna: oh. the spending of the money? Yeah. we spent some portion of the money that has been allocated to ball car for design or a mass plan for the site. I want to say 18 or 20.000 of the appropriation we're developing the timeline for when the rest of it would be spent. Three years ago. CPC appropriated about $150.000 to renew the basketball court. and we kind of put that on ice until this master plan is done. So there is a plan to spend it. Of it's. I would say. three or more years older. but I'm not ready to Unknown: give it back. I hope they don't. I'm ready. Okay.
I'm just
okay. sorry. that's all. I never really
Katherine Brenna: the fall is supposed to be quieter than the summer so far. So
Unknown: anything else. schedule our next meeting.
What works for the
and this time and during the interview is good.
It's not occurring that it's making that means
Katherine Brenna: agenda items and all documents should be ready. please.
Unknown: We talked about here today. Jeff Bergeron: the only we were to look at 14 West lane. Do we go like we need a day to do that? Unknown: Now. I think that's going to be what we're allowed to do that. okay. but. but prior to our next meeting. that'll
be okay. Should we recommend Tuesday. at this Jeff Bergeron: time or as possible. to actually do it as like a immediately after or before here we meet there at 930 on the 21st and then sort of do it all at once. Unknown: You ask for that. Yeah.
Another branch conversation or potential public forum
and potential review.
Katherine Brenna: Maybe. I guess. we find high school Yes. yeah. yes. like when you said. Anthony.
Unknown: yeah. motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion to return a second. All in favor. Thank you all for coming.
reserve. the chapter two. with the acts of 2025 this meeting will be conducted in persons. and the quote is going to applicable law. This means even recorded which we made. as well cam as soon after meeting. as is travel required by law or allowed by the chair person's wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in a meeting. to do so by in person tenants. or by accessing a meeting remotely as noted request. public comments. two minutes per person. these times. approximately. items will not be discussed. and you are listed for a specific. specific time estimate. All this. the topics may be separate to deliberation and work. The agenda is a call of order. Include public comment. three minutes review and approve. Next is available on our August 19. 3025 meeting. FY. 26 goals continue discussion of commission. department goals and vision. budget request for fiscal year 2026 and fiscal year two through fiscal year 2030 the gospel vote the darkness. second at the last meeting. In report. the new discretion improved the fiscal year 2025 annual report due September 30. pursuant to town village. chapter 53. dash one. available do correspondence. if any one from the economic development committee regarding Town Center two. East Coast Sherman. Sherman Ridge Road and three DPW. regarding field maintenance. Commissioner. announcements. dash. slash. reports and concerns. Recreation directors. report. schedule our next meeting. date. potential agenda items. 310. topics not increasingly anticipated by the chair. 48. hours in advance of the meeting for him and number 11 adjourned in attendance today regarding Lisa Foster. stewards. my plan And the captain. our recreation there. So the public comment. We'll move right on three minutes review and approve. Minutes are available at August 19. 2025 they just came in. They're in their packets.
Look at please. Come on. agent. thank you.
I just have a question on the goals about the identifying Tom lane that we was suitable for dog park. I don't know if our goal would be better described as. you know. in support of the dog park committee is as needed by our patients. I don't particularly want to identify be the one pursuing the concept more in support of these other committees. I agree. I don't think it's in our purview be supportive of selective
up. support. committee. advocacy. yeah.
Yeah. something else. if
and you want
that reason absolutely
what I Say. I motion to approve the your second. second Second. Any discussion? Seeing? None. All in favor. All
um for fiscal year goals. discussion Commission. Department goals and related budget requests for school year 2026 the fiscal year. 2030 possible vote. They got this presented at the last meeting. So you look at the roller motion. Katherine Brenna: So I prepared a list that's in the packet with the goals. And you can see there's only four there. but the minutes reflect kind of a more comprehensive list. So I don't know which list you want to go on top of that. but I think it would be good to just finalize a list of goals. Well. see that. like in the minutes. there's a couple of other goals that weren't and it might just be my error. When I prepared this document in the packet. I took the list we used last time. and we had stricken a bunch. and so I left before that we're not stricken at on top. but then it. but it looks like these ones that. and I didn't go back and look at the tape when I was making this. So these ones kind of moved up additional suggested commission will be done into that. Unknown: So we look at these goals. one through four and then 14 through 18. We will have discussion in terms of which direction they want to go in terms of four plus five years be effectively the goals we have for this year.
Any comment on that.
Question is. do you do we as a group. look at these at least nine and say that's too many pursue. And
I don't think that in terms of looking at these goals. I don't think there's these goals are not. in my estimation. in in order of. I think it may be well. it may well be things that We deal with. first. second. third. not. not necessarily. I and Katherine Brenna: I just add that I think if we look into FY 27 when some of these might be accomplished and there is a need for a budget to support into those goals. then that budget would be submitted this fall. like between now and January. so that we would it.
Unknown: I know you've answered this before. and I'm sorry I don't remember. Why is it that the middle school is not part of our rotating playground?
Dr. keen. the playground? Yeah. there isn't. Why isn't the middle school field considered part of the fields that were Oh. it Katherine Brenna: is. it is. It's just a shared asset with the schools. obviously. And so it falls under the MOU where DEP W and the Board of Public Works correct department recognition. And the school committee and school department kind of share that space. It was in my time here. It was slated for complete renovation. probably around this time it moved in the capital plan for. I mean. the town is kind of played with some interesting capital planning strategies. We do have a new capital planning committee that has been established that will hopefully prioritize the needs of the field with needs of the entire town. But in general. like I submit a capital plan in the last two years. it was submitted either to DEP or facilities. and a lot of just doesn't make the cut. And so Middle School is not currently in the five year capital plan. but I do think it's in like six or seven. right the out here. six or seven. which would be 30 FY. 30 or 30. Unknown: So it's in someone's list. Katherine Brenna: It's on the radar. for sure. It is in disrepair. And I think that. you know. like we're renovating Alpine right now. and I think it would. it is the next motion needed field that needs. like. take it offline. But obviously we cannot take the middle school offline without assuming bull back. And so right now that
Unknown: doesn't exist that it Katherine Brenna: will help the Alpine. Can't replace the middle school entirely. because the Alpine is a single rectangular footprint. and the middle school has a baseball field and softball field.
Jeff Bergeron: And he says. like. could you do this like left side of the school where like baseball field is. and taking a bit like that hard and then take a red cyber Yeah. is there 600 years of not changing that seems like too long. and it's only gonna get worse? Yeah? Katherine Brenna: I mean. one year is too long. Yeah. there's budget constraints. and there's it's not just reps properties. full property. It's not right. Unknown: Is there like a comprehensive plan that actually lays that opposite like your outline. is number one. right now. This field is number two. This field's number three. like going like so 2027 or 2026 will be this field. Katherine Brenna: 2027 will be the rec department prepares annually a capital plan. and that plan prioritizes all 64 different field sites that have the 12 flag rounds priorities and. you know. sketches them out in the capital plan. It's a massive Excel document that I'm having to share with this group. I use portions of that to submit to the capital plan every year. And that's what I was talking about. that we submit our needs to the capital plan. They don't always make it. And so historically. in the last four or five years that I've been here. the budgets have been. you know. pretty capped at a level service budget. And very few big ticket capital projects have gone in since the lower project or the high school saving project. So like I said. they are in the out years at this point. because they just keep Unknown: getting down the road. but Katherine Brenna: the town is recognizing this is an issue. and that there are kind of family facilities across the board. and has since the last time meeting. established the Capital Improvement Planning Committee. which had its first meeting last week. Unknown: Right? So there's a
Katherine Brenna: group of talents. kind of tasks. like. do we want to spend $1.5 million on 14 West lane? There's a better student to spend it at the middle school? And kind of prioritize those plans. But we Yes. the rec department has a plan that is based on the condition of the field and Unknown: bouncers. Do you sit in on the capital planning committee meetings? Does anybody on the recognition? Katherine Brenna: No should we? There was a discussion. There was a task force that I sat on ahead of that capital planning committee. where different board members. their school committee reps. ConCom Select Board. There were probably the 12 people were all parties were represented. It was decided among the group that staff would not be on the committee. as it is subject to over Meeting Law. And it was requested that recognition beyond that group. And ultimately decided that. I Unknown: think if you put Katherine Brenna: a recognition member. then you also need a portal. The board of reports in the library. and then they get right. So one of the rules is. actually the people in this committee cannot be members of any other committee. And that was a Tom meeting. again. wasn't approved last year. Okay? So. like two at large members that can be assigned by the Select Board. So it's like recognition has somebody that felt like there would represent recreations interest. they could put that person up to the Select Board to be appointed Unknown: to them. So who's on? No. I don't know. I know. I believe Kelly lane. who's former Chair of the Finance Committee. is element and. Katherine Brenna: You obviously made me feel overly he also from the finance committee. I don't know it's really new. and it's kind of those seats are being filled pretty quickly. So this is something that we can attend. and just it's a public meeting. So the same way that we are subject to opine law with public meetings. and Unknown: so is it similar to the game? Similar to the ABC that the folks are appointed by?
Yeah. could we recommend a name to the Select Board to absolutely serves on it? Yeah. I think by the week they're filling receipts now. could we possibly recommend someone like Broadway?
Yeah. I mean. that
is important. Yeah. I mean. that is. yeah.
I don't even know if there are open seats right now. but it's
Mark Norton: working crazy call Brother. if we have an open seat.
Unknown: I think
maybe as a board. you know. the middle school question that I brought up was captured under the DEP W field maintenance. and then also increased awareness by recreation of sideboards that are serving on our behalf. So this new group. so maybe the goal could be our increased presence. Katherine Brenna: I don't know. I'm happy to share that. Like. what our internal plan is that we submit through the channels here. but in the last few years. those submissions don't actually make for whatever reason. and sometimes the CPC is part of that as well. because of capital projects that through the CPC. And I think there is movement now to get those CPC projects also in front of this other capital planning committee. so that they can be balanced with Unknown: the overall capital.
Katherine Brenna: But I think that something like the middle school. it's bigger than that. right? It involves school uses it as far as part of the curriculum. the PD and different uses there. So you can't just hold it. I'll take it offline and do a repair without a solid Unknown: so this. this. this meeting is controlled by select board next to me. so I can reach out to our representatives. what's the procedure? Katherine Brenna: Yeah. and periodically. the Select Board issues over the scenes that are available for LinkedIn. And I believe there's exercise.
Mark Norton: So my only critique with the goals is that we should have a metric to show achievement. So. collaborating with the DEP W on field maintenance. What is that? What a successful collaboration? Is it we as a group are able make sure that we're having somebody present at some functional work. What is that? I think. just going through the list. they're like. supporting the doc projects. our projects. I think we did that last session. right? Yeah.
Unknown: Right. Without support? Mark Norton: Yeah. but is there anything else we need to do to show achievement of that goal? So if we look back a year from now. Unknown: like. well. Jeff Bergeron: do we need to. like. email that and saying. like. as part of our permission. I'm part of the discussion and after your presentation. you have to support directly to be able to proceed whatever process you have. And then we can take this goal and mark it as complete. and it shows completion. Unknown: So I think we're done with our goals. Yeah. Number two. is it completed? If there is no ballpark. yeah. Jeff Bergeron: I mean. I think our goal is to support the dog project. and we've shown our support. we've been able to offer that. We've. you know. put it in writing as part of. like. you know. our pleasure. and that's one of the things that we do want to encourage. And if there's a follow up. we can add that to the future agenda. But I think that I agree with Mark. and we need to be able to have there be some type of natural critique is 12 and ones are redundant. so continue to borrow members to better maintain fields and collaborate with de W. I'm feeling they can stand while you MOU is pretty much the same joy. Feel like 12 could 12 the middle are Katherine Brenna: kind of our department mental. and so a lot of times they do dovetail or kind of overlap in that way. And I think that they should. but we do a lot of coordination with the PW in house to make what happens happens. And so I wouldn't strike it on the right department. because it is alright too. But I do think it is a real to be aware of that. because I know that the commission that doesn't stand it has a feelings about the different fields out there. like whether middle school or Alpine. and that we managed to have a say the capital plan that goes through the channels. you know. and it's especially with the middle school. It's a collaboration with the school committee. the work of the works. and now the plan can planning committee. so that. I think you all should have a Mark Norton: secret so in the collaborating. I mean. would we change that to really. what we want To have is Unknown: clarity Mark Norton: as to what's happening in those school field right? What needs to be done to get there. and kind of each as we think about all these different fields that things. programs that were supported. what are we doing? I think just clarity that people want. right? Like you go to middle school field. you're not happy with it. It'd be excellent for us today. 2028 it's in the program to be funded by this. and if you need to go to town meeting to support that. we can also say it's in the book for 28 but you need to make sure you're there for 27 to go for it. It's not a gift. or maybe it is. again. I don't know. but that makes Unknown: sense. Yeah. Jeff Bergeron: way to get any type of like. I guess. progress report for fields from DEP W of priorities. Katherine Brenna: they recently sent out. It's in the package there. you know. they said that. a press release essentially on what they're working on right now. which is in line with our capital planning internally. What we came to an agreement on is the renovation of alpine field. high school girls softball. varsity baseball and played adding irrigation five and six. And so those projects are all in the works for this fiscal year. which is great. but then. yeah. like in the out years. And so the capital plan is published in the Lawrence that gets the literature rooms now. So you can the average resident. if they're not sure where the middle school could be renovated. could look at the capital plan and see where that shakes out. But I believe. like I said. we've been putting before capital planning for a while. The town has historically just planned for the next fiscal year. you know. loosely planned out of the out years. Yeah. they are getting better at that. and so that. yeah. a five year plan would definitely help the community understand. so when they get that would be able to disrepair. they understand where it is in the pipeline. and that maybe that's not the worst. you know. yeah. Unknown: is the five year plan in your estimation going to be sort of desperate. based on What we currently remember. with
respect to the mwrase Defendant? What's going to happen. and then taking those out years will be more accurately. which Katherine Brenna: way I would say. as we sit here today. there's the out years probably aren't. Will be accurate. but I think with the work of this capital improvement plan. they are tasked to firm up the fire. So this year we should see one that's probably more reliable than being asked. which is great. absolutely. But there are. there is like a compliments of financial expenses coming out of town. WRA and there's there was a push. I know you've known for a while to build an indoor facility at 195 main street. which has triggered a lot of environmental work that's happening now. and some of it is expensive. the remediation that needs to happen at 195 The town is challenged to Unknown: find ways to pay for Yeah. I don't know anybody else Commission has any conversation with anybody quiet.
Katherine Brenna: I think there's an LSP task of looking at how to remediate that within the time frame the DEP requires and how to fund it. And so I think there was just waiting to see what that
Unknown: shit that's your proposition. right? Katherine Brenna: And so that. and that is honestly why some of our field projects get pushed out into the outward years. There are priorities. and I would say drinking water. there's a big one that's going to outweigh any kind of grass field projects. Now is Unknown: discussion with DPW for enough along to understand how they're approaching over Katherine Brenna: Yes. they have a plan to look for. They had it assessed by some soil experts. and they have prescribed a maintenance plan. And they respond that maintenance plan. it does take time. PH. in the soil. And. you know. pH. changing the pH in the soil takes years. and so. I mean. it's vital right now. we have groups out there using it. It's. you know. it's not the best field in town. and it should be. but there were Unknown: expenses of mine in
Katherine Brenna: order to maintain that. yeah. yeah. they're being covered by
Unknown: do we add the DEP W deal meetings as a repeating item in our agenda? Maybe we have someone go to each meeting so we can kind of report and share that information internally. so we all know what's happening. How do we how do we make this an item we can feel good achieving at the end of the game? Well. I think that the cabinet has has regular contact and interaction.
probably more than she would like. Maybe. What did you
Jeff Bergeron: visit the thing that came out on the third which was great to be able to see what progress is. That's something that it's actually like part of the review. we're part of the discussion. I think that would be great. I mean. just looking at it. it's like. I remember. I mean. I had a conversation with Jennifer said about high school girls softball field. and that was the first that I heard that they had something that was already in work. So this company was. I mean. within a week. irrigation was already installed. and it was great. But not knowing that. I think. creates a lot more questions. where it would be great to see. not only like. what's the worst. but also what's coming up. I also like. and then also. if there's a way for us to get to have any sort of input. just looking at like fields. five and six for clay fit as being improvements in irrigation. But even though those are probably the most played on fields. I also feel those are probably the two of the best fields of all. So why did we decide to do five and six as opposed to leveling eight for cleaning up nine and 10 or like. 11. Like. why we're. why was that decided Katherine Brenna: that's like that. That was the easiest way. and on short money and short labor be able to provide irrigation for five and six. We're. like. completely renovating a. a is more disruptive. but B. it was a. there were logistical challenges. especially because of the school that's operating. that's behind the school. So there are reasons. and I think sometimes the general consensus from the community. I think. is that that generally DEP does have a plan. and there are reasons behind their plan. but nobody knows they are and so people are and so people are standing out to feel kind of scratching. Why is this this way? And then. like I said. After a quick conversation with DEP W that you get your answers. but it would be easier if those answers were more readily available. Jeff Bergeron: Here's what's in progress. here's what's coming up. And then we discussed. Unknown: what. if? What if we made the DPW real situation. a standing agenda and and that we would get some type of report from the DPW. especially. what's been accomplished since this July. I think. yeah. and I think their plan is to Katherine Brenna: regularly provide incentive updates. And maybe that's all we. maybe. maybe we. I don't know. How you want to get those reports? Unknown: It could be from directly. I can find out from them and compare something. whatever. whatever. whatever is most effective and easiest. Because you guys. you meet with them regularly. numerous times. So in preparation for. I mean. we have something before. I
think
it's our biggest visibility item for the town. You know. there's another Tom meeting. They're going to want us to speak on it. and we really have to be up today.
Katherine Brenna: Another avenue that would help keep you performed is potentially this commission participating in the capital planning that happens. or even just like a review of it. which hasn't historically happened at these meetings. but like having to share like
Unknown: that. yeah. And. you know. we're all kind of. I'm new on this board. and I've just kind of learned. okay. which lists are starting to be on and Okay. which part of which meeting do I need to attend? And I think. you know. I think we're really getting there as a group. and maybe right now more fostering their foot how we can spread out and figure this out. I
Jeff Bergeron: think that we. I agree with this. I think that we add a standing agenda item that is. you know. discussing. you know. field maintenance and DTW updates and MOU updates. and either what's in progress and what's planned stuff. and if there's a way to be able to provide any input. you know. we can discuss at that point. And then additionally. I think that having the Capital Planning Committee. having there be some type of person that passes the liaison between. you know. possibly them. I think. would be very Unknown: helpful in terms of that. all that. and then he wants.
I think. probably yes. Okay. so we all screwed away. Oh. I think maybe we had a little rerun in terms of what went on last night at 14 West Windsor So. Leslie and I were both there. and I think that the number of folks in chatting. and there are a number of folks who spoke very much in favor of what we're doing. as far as asking with another woman whose name I did not get you also.
no. well. Chris Reynolds is speaking as a practice. yeah. and the other woman was speaking As a looking at it from the perspective it's an opportunity to purchase your property that has a lot of attributes that could be used by a lot of different ways. And I was advocating for recreation relocated there recreation needs. They were saying that it was something like $200 per square feet to take over this property that currently existed. versus the $800 per square foot to find new Oh. yeah. Well. that goes to costly communist. So this. this property is. and I don't know whether any of you folks had an opportunity to have a tour so. but when you do. it was done. saying. literally. in very good condition. Uh. does not need much in terms of upgrades. Um. handicapped accessible and well. it doesn't have an elevator. There are ramps that allow folks with disability to access all especially building. This is everything the library was interested in offering new services and collaboration with recreation the library and we. we can make this happen at the library and recreation tenants in that building. we can. Know in the library at all. We were here this morning. discussed this. and then we could move forward with further discussion. And then it really is having a select board said that they were going to make a decision in terms of what they want to do. pursuing the property by the end of the month. So that's Yeah. and I just want to add in the people who were against the acquisition were saying that the it would take the property out of a commercial zone and into a municipal zone. and the last and you come to the town. would be considerable. It doesn't make any
difference. plus the staffing cost to. you know. upkeep trash and clean bathrooms and sure and all this. bits and pieces that
position but I don't know whether you would address this. whether we would have an opportunity go and Take a look.
Take a look at the building. We
Is
Jeff Bergeron: there any commercial interest in the building? Unknown: Right now. the building is on market. Along the building. at this particular one time. would be willing to wait to recognize the briefer to do anything about this building the approach Tom me through the town again. because. because it deals with funding. and so April that when we decision would be made. and then that would be contingent upon it going forward. So forward. so there's plenty of time to figure out what we what we would like to do. but I think for sooner that we can get in there and see what's available to us for collaboration with the library. I think that would go a long way to determine
my concern was. you know. what happens when depression. if the rec department itself moves to this building? How would it be detrimental to that department to sever. you know. proximity of being in the town building and amongst other Tom employees. and being down the call from the town manager. Will that be an issue. but. but maybe it's the one department. it wouldn't hurt as much as other departments. And then also vacating the space. you know. Council of aging just vacated record. Then be vacated? What? How would that space be used? And does that make sense? My opinion. the reason the consular region left the region recreation. Jeff Bergeron: I know Weston has that whole separate they have their Yeah. it's amazing.
I mean. I would definitely be available to walk in and see. would the party owners be able to. like. maintain it until. like. it's town meeting and it's nothing. nothing can happen until July. Are they willing to. like. maintain the building. or the next nine months. they're still living there. So it looks like it was actually driving by. So I wasn't sure that I thought they left the building. I just want to make Unknown: sure that there's some segments there for eight months. Yeah. Jeff Bergeron: occupying it right now? Yeah. Okay. Unknown: so my question regarding commercial basket. Jeff Bergeron: like interest is like only because I know that I don't know what that what goes into that space. right? That's right next to that gas station has been empty and for at least for 10 plus years. and I would hate for Super. you know. anything to pass and have it be an additional eyesore that's on that corner just sitting there. So. yeah. yeah. Unknown: exactly. Jeff Bergeron: Or what was better for CBS? I mean. it was like. there's so many things that just sit there and get over grown. I would hate for this to be another one. Unknown: Because addition of this particular. I think. Captain. if you could. if you could reach out and see if we can get An update for us. Um.
good.
So
looking at this agenda. whether you want to cover anything twice Main Street.
Katherine Brenna: So it was listed as an additional suggested goal. and I think that was from prior years and interest in the property. Like I said. I think we are in a waiting game the some of the remediation needs to be completed by this November for mass DEP. But like I said. the town is looking at fun the remediation that has to happen there. There's pink bass. there's soil contamination. There's groundwater contamination. They're not saying that developing that land is impossible. so it's. you know. it is possible. but the price tag is potentially an issue. It's also not broken lane. It is causes. Unknown: Well. actually. it was. historically. it was dpwr Lane. And then if. when that whole issue was suggesting they move to the new facility. DPW stated. they'll be more than happy to relinquish their responsibility. So if recreation. the schools and a library become your agreement in terms of how the facility that property of youth. and actually we did. but then the library get turned down. The library get turned down after this August. into a state of trust. So I now is now.
Mark Norton: I think what's important 195 days relates to this group. is the RFP that the Select Board will put out for whoever will develop that site for that athletic facility. And I do think it's important that this group participate in that evaluation. so that the ARPA accurately reflects the needs of the community. rather than just. you know. being financial in nature. So addressing. you know. all age groups. multi generational access. all those items. So if we have a goal. I want to make sure that if you're talking to Doug anyway. understanding where they are in that process of RFP development and how rec can be involved in the development of the architect. I think it's
Jeff Bergeron: definitely a goal that stays on here. It may just be one of those that doesn't happen in 26 it stays on here. So that Unknown: way it's constantly discussing much more definitively. Well. for the mediation cost side. yeah. and then whether we move forward the remediation consensus. billions of dollars. with all the other fiscal aspects of their community of that currently. yeah. yeah. yeah. because there's no one. no. no one is going to want to come in here and and operate that facility. It's going to cost them million dollars up front. I think that's nothing. Yeah. yeah. but thanks.
Anything else in terms of goals. so I have so far that we said number one that. Collaborating DPW. we touched on that. supporting the dog park. but we land on any
Jeff Bergeron: actual tangible goals. on how we might be able to do that. So we're not going to identify the land. but once. once they do. what can we do. other than. you know. maybe send a letter somewhere saying Unknown: that. from my perspective. that would be what we can do. We could throw our support as a commissioner. We could throw our support behind it. But I don't think that we have any other
Jeff Bergeron: I think I think we just I think we get needed. We can either let them. we allow whoever is on that committee to be able to say that they have the support of the recognition as part of their process. If they need something in writing. you know. I have no problem sending an email saying. you know. just so that way you have it. You know. we discussed this where it's worth it. but I think that that's one of those necessarily need to be involved at this point I was showing support. We can do that. We can sort of loop it as a. you know. in progress or near completion Unknown: task. and also thinking what would happen. I think it would be an article next year. So I think we can certainly support as part. as part of the opportunity. Yeah.
we keep in three and four. I thought those dropped off the list from the last meeting. but I think I suggested the global opportunities. I don't I think the big ball community is pretty content. and until they reach out and think it's something different strike that
Jeff Bergeron: doing. I was. I wasn't sure if that included like. you. type like. encourage. not like. doing any type of like. rep. type of all like. yeah. like. youth opportunity. especially if. like. if field off. you Were going to a private Is that something that sort of fills that athletic void of field coffee is there. you know. becomes like a rec program or something like that? Katherine Brenna: I think that we can capture the goals of this item within rec department goals. So. like just your normal program assessments. I don't necessarily think it needs to be a priority. Unknown: And Lauren is happy to talk. if necessary. my wife about erase that after our last meeting. she's happy to if that would be helpful.
Thank and now bottom this. 1415. 1617. 18.
Well. Wesley started working on number 14. which is great. She provided some documents that voted this morning. That Katherine Brenna: on the agenda for next meeting. If the commission is an agreement that this could be a goal. Unknown: I think that's actually Jeff Bergeron: that would be one of the priority goals. There's a lot Unknown: discussion about evaluating fuel costs and fee schedule that I think is an ongoing. ongoing issue.
Yeah. we just need to be apprised and aware of what your recommendations are and how we do. Katherine Brenna: And I think once we once the commission voted the new policy and we rolled it out. there were some pickups and some groups that couldn't understand how they fit in. but I think we've ironed out a lot of those issues. So I don't necessarily think it's necessary to go back and change any way that it was building. but as we continue to use it and learn new things. we might have amendments the next time we look at it. but I would say we should look at it manually. Mark Norton: Yeah. So I. I agree with that. ideally. and CPC as well. I think this board would probably be aware of what is going forward there. What's the scheduler that works best for you on both the field fees. the timing got kind of like tricky last year. So what are we best in the year? Just to address it for you on both of those fronts. Katherine Brenna: So for the field policies. I think it's best to do in the office. You don't want to feel the clothes. So closed. so in January and to go into effect either that following spring. or do I want this year. just so people can budget and all that. I think that a general review of the capital planning. During the budget season. which is when the fall is best. So that potentially our fall right meetings would have some kind of review to the capital planning. which should include CDC projects submitted by the commission. But I know at some point the CPC also looks to the recognition. to look to opine on applications that are not presenting. and that happens again in the fall of December. We could swap that into the agenda October. and then a few of ones in December. Unknown: Okay. yeah. I think submissions. And mid November. I think December. So it is Katherine Brenna: in line with kind of the capital clinic in general. and so we could take a review of the entire department's capital plan as we submit it through channels. and potentially identify projects that would be suitable for students.
Unknown: I think we really need to carve out some time and see if we see this here. because I felt like that was over. Was rushed through. I was new to it. I didn't understand and we yeah. we need to really review each item.
priorities. review each other. Priorities. submitted and
then become familiar with the Open Meeting. I don't know how many open meeting rock training. so being historically in this town has been a real issue. not for recreation. There's been a real issue for other doors. and we call on traffic numerous times and as board members and town for over so in our best interest that everybody takes a look at The over mer thing and just complete it. So we've done our due diligence as far as that's concerned. and understand where we are with respect to having open gates. one of the biggest areas that we need. And I don't think. I don't think anybody is looking at the Recreation Commission as consistent violators of the opening. and I don't think they're looking at us. Well. we can. we can make points by your email. For beneficial for us to make sure we don't fall so it takes probably half an hour. 45 minutes in the country with and one of the biggest violations that we do have is answering emails they can't. Can't answer emails for the entire board they haven't posted. then your family having that.
absolutely you do a very good job and you Always have to carry out. Please don't respond to all that's Katherine Brenna: the other big one that I think is getting hit with is discussing or acting on items that aren't specifically if you kind of get outside of the scope of the agenda item. So this board hasn't been other boards. So yes. just remind you want to really talk about something in a meeting. or even because you vote on it. just shoot us an email. Unknown: yeah. or for something you just come up with last minute talking to it's easy to list Katherine Brenna: something as a vote and not be ready for the novice.
Unknown: Okay? So. yeah. Steve Calvin. Are good. but yeah so.
okay. annual report. review. discussion and approval of the fiscal year. 2025 annual course through September 30. pursuant to town flow. Chapter 53. one. if available. and they are relatively known about it. And I feel like
I did not go back to make the ends. I don't remember. Just Well. so do you want me to say like
so it says in the CBC commission that committee the last line fiscal year 2025 CBC and Tom voters funded improvements to Cochituate ballpark. That was fiscal year 2024 and last year in 2025 sorry. we did the York Road trail on the Tom building the ground so we had 400.000 to the town building playground. and something like 33.000 to the York Road trail. the last 70. like the last time. I'm not sure if that's 126 so then if it's FY 26 then I feel like that should not list me. because that's not my turn. That would have been have been Kelly. That was just like. so you're understanding ground up. I'm just beginning. and so I put
25 of your birth right? Yeah. maybe I'm wrong. but no.
what does FY 25 end? 26 begin? FY 26 begin on July 1.
So maybe I was present for that. That
would have been July 24 to.
Yeah. Things you're talking about Yeah. so. so this was. I looked this morning. and it was on the annual Tom meeting 2024 list. the 154.000 to constituent ball fields and softball fields. and then the 296 in the DEP with people. Katherine Brenna: So you're saying you weren't on the CPC when that was okay. Unknown: that was at the 2024. annual time meeting. But I'm not sure if that's considered. I think that's considered.
I will go back and get this very
so it should on July 120. 25 we voted in favor of reappointing Leslie ending. June 30. 2026.
right. that's FY 26 this is the FY 25 report. Katherine Brenna: So. so on my first 24 we had a meeting. and what would you do to be the CPC back? Right? So that is the entire duration of FY 25 but. yeah. So that's sentences. true. but you're it is unrelated to the FY 25 approval that happened to Tom made that Unknown: year. right? Because it was supplier term. But okay. so we Katherine Brenna: could restructure it just so it like the first sentence true. yeah. and the last sentence was true. but they were not related. right? So we could say maybe something like in. in the prior term. yeah. the CPC before these projects. Because if Unknown: you're going to list my term there. I think you would list the North Road Trail and the Tom building playground.
correct my 25
All right? Thank you.
Grammatical. yeah. I
hope that's up. Would someone make a motion for two the annual reports in September of
25? Assume the town called chapter 53 dash one. and with with
the amendments to the CPC recession. my second. Are there?
Commissioners. announcements and reports and concerns
and I would like to say that the CDC committee is meeting tomorrow. and unfortunately I'm unable to attend. And I was wondering if anybody from this committee would be able to attend to my place tomorrow at 630 I plan to submit a summary of the recreation CPC funds what's been completed. but I Just don't love that there's totally out of space. without recreation mind. just it's usually very formal. So where the first meeting. they're just kind of setting things. but I don't know Katherine Brenna: if it's appropriate. or someone could go in your seat. just from an informative standpoint. So it kind of. I don't think that they could participate in the conversation. or both. Unknown: They can't go. Yeah. but it's more just as a placeholder to remind them. uh. recreation and care to help.
Hello. you're I think it's a very. very short meeting. I remember the last time our first meeting. we didn't have enough time to pass the cookies all the way around the table. so
it worked.
Mark Norton: No no. we're hosting for people that are in town. so I can't really.
Unknown: yeah. no. I'll provide a written summary of our progress to you. And Susan. yeah. nice. yeah. yeah. it has been
consistent Wayland town building that I see right now.
A lot more
i The other thing I just wanted to say is. I did look at a few sites with the dog park committee. and their number one priority is. I'm not sure if it's changed from their website. but they they really liked that small plot of land right behind Ace Hardware. which was previously offered to the town from for $100 but that. I think that Tom meeting. we didn't accept the land. So I'm not sure if there's any. they have any right to that land. It's just. it's where the the the of the touch of chocolate. That was how there's a little pasture right there. a little green space that's. you know. under used. and would be just so that plastic. if it was improved.
Okay. they don't need very much. I mean. they're. they're not looking for much. Well. we're looking at recreation. They're looking for two spaces. Yeah. they. they saw that little field and thought that would. yeah. that side for both if they could manage that. which is that. Jeff Bergeron: The two spaces aren't necessarily in two separate areas. It's just like. maybe. like an offense that would divide so that we have an area so. but it
Unknown: would be they could be all in one area. Yeah. they're really interested in that too. And. yeah.
so I encourage them to attend those meetings.
I went to see the Sherman bridge. road bridge. I took 10 minutes last Friday. It's absolutely stunning. Anybody should go there and improve your day. It's so peaceful. so beautiful. The bridge itself is really lovely. The wood. it's just. it's. it's calming. And there. you know. there is a boat ramp. the twos. and who are fishing there? When I went. there were two or three fire crews there when I went. which is some amazing thing to happen in 10 minutes. the mass.is has a proposal to improve the bridge By structurally silver.
So we are state of disrepair. Yeah. it needs some repair. It's very clear that they want to repair it by making it suitable for cars. not so much suitable for the in. you know. the environment that it's in. So they want as many cars as possible to be able to go as heavily and fast as possible. So they want to do is.
Is called the name. so I got it. It's blue Lane plus asphalt combo. So it's like a petrified wood that looks pretty on the outside. but the asphalt combo is just like putting the idle right on top. so that that like pleasing sound of a car kind of going over the nice bridge like that's all lost. and it's gonna happen. if you can just tell that Mass DOT wants to change it for their purposes. not for environmental purposes. And I think. I think a lot will be lost if they do do that. civil and original. or heavy trucks to take that route. which some trucks might avoid it because of the wood bridge. it's going to encourage people to go faster. I think it would be nice to have some sort of speed tempering measures in the neighborhood. or bridge. You know. lower speeds encourage lower league vehicles. But I don't know. I'd just be interested to see what comes up at but. Katherine Brenna: yeah. no. it's and Doug stops. Is he still. I think so. Yeah. he wrote a letter to this commission asking for recreation permission support in this so potentially not to go back to reopen the goals. But if the submission is interested in supporting that. then maybe it should be wonderful. Building.
Unknown: I don't know. I wasn't sure how much of it was recreation. I mean. I know bikers go over it and bikers use it. but like. what sort of space to control and that? Katherine Brenna: Yeah. I don't think it's any of those actually wrap land. But he doesn't make an argument that it is a recreational aspect and that the recognition should take. I The Jeff Bergeron: recognition should take that very quick. That looks like it was approved for Community Preservation Act funds anything ever come from that. Unknown: Not that I know about it was in Jeff Bergeron: town meeting time. meeting in 2022 when voters approved to use the Community Preservation Act. So they purchased that area. Oh. and now it needs more to be able to get Unknown: So apparently there's a. like. a goat shed. There's a small house that's right there. I was speaking to conservation about. you know. the Tom when they need some goats to get rid of the poison ivy. And she's like. Oh. we approach it. and we just bought that. and then we just get somebody to mind the goats in the weekend. So not our problem for now. yeah. But I'm not sure if it's the same or. yeah. Jeff Bergeron: I think that's like. a separate car than. like. just outside the acre? Unknown: Think so. I'm not sure. though. but yeah. I think it's a watch the space.
Did anybody respond to the dep.no one responded. No. Oh. I. I told Doug that I would take a lot. Okay. yeah. so. yes. yes. I did acknowledge Doug in that way. but not officially. That's part of it.
Mark Norton: Sorry. I agree with supporting it again to give some good follow up progress perspective. How do we engage in what can we do with it's a mass got problems.
Unknown: Oh. I think it's whether the road launch is in Katherine Brenna: our purview or and whether a biker's right of Unknown: way is something that a person's right to natural beauty. I don't know. Mark Norton: Yeah. I appreciate. and I know. I know it's fine.
Unknown: and I agree with him. I just want to be able. in our capacity. to do something
to be discussed.
and we could add Katherine Brenna: Amber work. like I said. potentially it's
relevant. Sure. I think the Unknown: meeting about this on October 1. Mary select quarters. have I made full arm? Is that right? A full run.
is that right? Katherine Brenna: I haven't heard October 1. It could be Doug wrote us all an email on August 27 that said it was two weeks ago. So as of two weeks ago. it had been scheduled. but I
Unknown: you want to
Katherine Brenna: a summer. there's a nice write up with everything we did in the right. right up in the way we post the record permit. that's about the beach and the camps and fields and all fun stuff to hit the summer of letting me down in here on time. our fall program registration open end in August for pretty good numbers we have we two years ago. we created direct task program to help support the wait list of The base programs. The base program has since resolved its weightless issue. which has pretty much eliminated the need for us to provide after school program that would be also running Wednesdays. which is early Wednesday and super Wednesdays. so that we're starting to roll out programs in the community center. We have chess lessons happening over there. some babies in courses. We had our coaches meeting for the field hockey parents out up there. Really cool space. and we're excited about it right now. In September. we're all working towards this swim festival on fourth it's going to be a really. cool event. It's historically. we've done touch and truck. which is extract some cool community partners that put on an event that this year we're partnering with the hrda. who's putting on a multicultural pavilion on artist marketplace. Wayland Arts is coordinating some live music on stage. which is going to be pretty awesome. And the red 250 committee is also planning a parade that will kick off in the morning ahead of touch drop. It's pretty cool. There's going to be food trucks here. beer garden. kids activities. something like that. It's going to be big. We got some data from our last touch truck was through about 3200 visitors to the events. and so we anticipate that this one will be much bigger. Um. I believe they're working on that. I don't know. I haven't seen that. Unknown: Um. On. We already Katherine Brenna: talked about the analysis. We're working very closely with DEP W to get fields in better condition and stretched appropriately and ready for games each weekend. The beach is obviously closing the season. but we're doing some of our all prep stuff to get the building ready for next season. and closing off season. we do still have a handful of events that happen in the fall. Our crew is planning a series of new school fun nights. as they call them. or youth nights. with plan police and the family services. The first one is actually coming up at the end of this month. It's going to be for sixth graders Middle School. It's kind of a social night. And then there's a couple of trips planned after that. which is
Unknown: really exciting. The Katherine Brenna: ones. the one on the winter will be to me show the valley. I think they're talking in October buffalo. which is in some kind of Halloween inspired event. middle school students.
26 annual fishing derby that happened this past spring. and volunteer that has made that happened. That event happened for 26 years. Tom Antonella said. decided to. we'll call it retired from that event. And so we're working with our teams. Team are kind of working to see there's a way to keep going to Wakeland. because it is a very popular event. Helen says. going on for a long time. Unknown: Um. so we hope. we hope to keep that alive with TBD. Um. we are working Katherine Brenna: with the playground designer on the children's way playground. which should go to bed this fall. We're working with the associates on the design working through ballpark. varsity baseball. Now. find her underway. and then we have been involved some of these 14 plain street conversation. Not all we have the balls that are in the air right now. just just for general programming. it was you. Unknown: Question actually. because for the CPC meeting coming up. they're going to want to know if we have used all the funds have been allocated to us in the last three years. Katherine Brenna: So to some degree. yes. For example. the two years ago. they appropriated money for the town beach entry way and playground is completed in our use. and we installed 80 cents of that appropriation
and the beach entry project. Most of that work is done. but there is still some work to do there. So we do expect some expenditures to happen. but also that there will be a turn back to the CPC. So the bid for the fence actually came in way after that. we will be Unknown: able to turn some money back there
Katherine Brenna: and the CPC funded the town. Yes. this town. which. like I said. should go to bid this fall. and once it's been the construction is like a six to eight process. So by the time CPC goes to the next round of voting. but that should be
Unknown: resolved. We Katherine Brenna: have to coordinate this preschool that is housed in this building uses that as part of their curriculum even in the winter. So we need to kind of work around your schedule. So we have to work. There's no good times to figure
Unknown: out the it out. But hopefully Katherine Brenna: this this one a little bit challenging because it's in the weapons and there's some other factors that go into it. but we're working Unknown: through Saturday
or Yeah. there was money for the payments. Does that mean. Katherine Brenna: oh. the spending of the money? Yeah. we spent some portion of the money that has been allocated to ball car for design or a mass plan for the site. I want to say 18 or 20.000 of the appropriation we're developing the timeline for when the rest of it would be spent. Three years ago. CPC appropriated about $150.000 to renew the basketball court. and we kind of put that on ice until this master plan is done. So there is a plan to spend it. Of it's. I would say. three or more years older. but I'm not ready to Unknown: give it back. I hope they don't. I'm ready. Okay.
I'm just
okay. sorry. that's all. I never really
Katherine Brenna: the fall is supposed to be quieter than the summer so far. So
Unknown: anything else. schedule our next meeting.
What works for the
and this time and during the interview is good.
It's not occurring that it's making that means
Katherine Brenna: agenda items and all documents should be ready. please.
Unknown: We talked about here today. Jeff Bergeron: the only we were to look at 14 West lane. Do we go like we need a day to do that? Unknown: Now. I think that's going to be what we're allowed to do that. okay. but. but prior to our next meeting. that'll
be okay. Should we recommend Tuesday. at this Jeff Bergeron: time or as possible. to actually do it as like a immediately after or before here we meet there at 930 on the 21st and then sort of do it all at once. Unknown: You ask for that. Yeah.
Another branch conversation or potential public forum
and potential review.
Katherine Brenna: Maybe. I guess. we find high school Yes. yeah. yes. like when you said. Anthony.
Unknown: yeah. motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion to return a second. All in favor. Thank you all for coming.
School Committee
24-Sep-25 - School Committee52:45
10-Sep-25 - School Committee01:57:59
18-Aug-25 - School Committee02:39:05
Erin Gibbons: welcome to the
Wayland school committee
meeting. It is the 10th of
September. It is 6:13pm.and we
are being recorded by WayCAM. We
have all of our school committee
members present in person. and
our administrators are here our
superintendent. our assistant
superintendent. our Director of
Student Services and our
Director of Finance and
Operations.
right? Yes. Um. okay. Is anybody
here for public comment?
No. no. okay. all right. David. do you want to start on 3.1 David Fleishman: Yes. As you all know. we are underway for the 25-26 school year. even though Labor Day was just last week. it feels like we've been in school for a while. and I think that's because we started before Labor Day. and that was the change that Wayland has not done for a while. And so we had a really nice welcome back for our educators. I know several things before we started. It was wonderful here from our new president of our union. Danielle Barron. Erin. welcomed our students. with terrific music from our summer orchestra program. And we were underway.and it's going smoothly. I always say that the first couple of weeks of school are always as long as you do the summer. planning pretty smooth. And then we have new opportunities and challenges every day. One of the challenges of starting earlier. I will say. is that attendance data was was not attendance was not as high as it would be typically in the first two days of school. and that's just something to think about. Whether folks were so used to starting a Tuesday after Labor Day. as some districts have a standard start date versus perhaps a variable start date. but we did have some lower attendance across the board in the first couple of days of school. just something to be aware of and reflect upon since then. I would say one of the pluses. even though we started early. it's been very good school weather in schools without air conditioning. That's been a positive. And the hot weather. the worst the meteorologists are saving for the weekends. like last Saturday. which was really good. that was a it was a non school day. So that's been that's been smooth. We'll have our enrollment numbers. of course. after October 1. we have slightly over projection in kindergarten. a little other under in some areas over. you know. in one grade levels is a little higher. Third grade at Happy Hollow than we projected. But we're we're excited. and it's been positive. and later on. we'll talk about the goals for the year and presentations. We had a chance to visit a couple of co-taught classes I was in off to a positive start. and you'll hear more about that as we as we go. So I will stop there. because tonight. we're going to kind of begin with our summer programming. give you an update on that. and then we update and revise our goals based on our last meeting. We'll talk have a student attendance update from last year with some important data. and then. as I said earlier. we'll go through our meetings because we thought would be really good at this first meeting of the school year. Have a really good plan for the year. and of course. get your feedback. So with that. Betsy. you're kinda going to facilitate. and Ny is here as well. We have a team effort tonight. Betsy Gavron: Yes. and so while school was certainly out over the summer. there was lots going on here in the district. and we're going to share with you a little bit about what happened. So we'll talk about the extended school year program. Ronnie will will take us through that Pegasus and STEAM Explorers. Nye is here to talk a little bit about that. I'll talk a little bit about the Metco transitions program that happened and some of the adult learning that went on over the course of the summer. Ronnie. Ronnie Kessler: so this is just kind of an overview of what ESI is. ESI stands for Extended School Year. extended school year services. So ESI. why at every initial review. annual review. reevaluation. the team. the Special Education team. including parents. one of the questions on the IEP is. does this? Does the student require an extended school year in order to prevent regression? And that's an area that needs to be addressed every year on the IEP. and actually on the new IEP. there's a specific service delivery grid just for summer services. which is nice. So decisions based on are based on evidence of regression. So we look at after December. February and April breaks. we look at summer. so we have data from June. and then teachers are taking data now. so we can really see if there's been regression. That's our biggest data point. especially for kids who did attend. We like to measure that for kids who it was recommended. who did not attend. That's an important part. And then also. just for all kids. it's good to see that regression. So this is a really important data gathering time. In addition to regression. it's also about the rate of recoupment of those skills. So if we expect all kids to lose some amount of. you know. over the summer. have some summer slide. some regression. but if it's going to take a student double the amount of time to recoup those skills. then that's also evidence that they require summer ESI programming. And I kind of went into my I already said this ahead of myself. but it's that. you know. all students regress to some extent. but it's really about like. if you have that break in service. what is that timeframe to get back to where you were before that break? So this is just an overview of the programs that we offered this year. We had tutoring and related services. So that was at Loker and Boston. And actually. I should have also put it was virtual. We had try to really make it work. I know it's hard. So we tried to offer as many options as possible. Parents would reach out and ask for specific time. You know. can I have first thing in the morning or and I would do my best. It's a jigsaw puzzle. so it's hard. but I would do my best. but some. we were able to accommodate some through virtual which is helpful. Our language based programming was at Loker. We had a Learning Academy again at Loker. Milestones and Achieve and TCW were at Luke are and then we had our high school program. which was at the high school. but they also did a lot of off site work. actually volunteering at Pegasus as part of that. which was great. So they were kind of at Loker too.
So just some of our we had tutorials and itinerant therapy. so some kids just come for OT or PT or speech. We had 14 students we attend. students in our preschool. 10 students in Milestones and Achieve. 12 students in our LBC. 10 students in Learning Academy. four students in life skills. Then we partnered with Pegasus a bit more this year. so I'll talk a little bit about that. And then we also had tutoring in Boston. And in it last year we supported the Metco has a program in Boston that runs for four weeks. nine to three o'clock. and we support some students going to that and we send tutors to that program. So we had an SLP and a teacher who went to the Metco program and provided services. I just keep getting ahead of myself. Erin Gibbons: have we. have we always done that Ronnie? Ronnie Kessler: . so when I got here. it was kind of we were just kind of still getting off of covid and everything kind of was virtual. and I was trying to figure out. I worked closely with Latoya around the best way for us to provide services for students. for our Boston resident students. because I want students spending more time on a bus than they are in the program. But we also want to make sure. so I've actually also. I meet with West and Wellesley. Sudbury. Natick around like what they do for programming. And we talked. We didn't end up sharing this year. but last year we ended up sharing a little bit. But I reach out to our Boston resident. students. parents. kind of via survey to find out what you know. what time frame they're looking for. What do they want to virtual? Would they like to come to Luke? Or some they have the option to come to Luke. or would they like it in Boston? And then we kind of work what their needs are and what their availability is and what we can provide. So this is the second year of funding kids at the Metco program. and that's been successful. They're a really nice partner. And then some parents opted for virtual and then Latoya also coordinates some tutoring at I'm going to say it's it's not Hans Christian. it's like there's a Learning Center in Boston Hans Christensen. thank you. I always say. like Hans Christian Anderson Unknown: and the red shoes. yeah. Ronnie Kessler: also. we try to use whatever means possible to help. to give the support to students
our staffing. We had a BCBA. CODA is our certified occupational therapy assistant. And when we have a coda assistant. we also need an occupational therapist to oversee that person so that we contract out for our physical therapist with Easter Seals. Jerry. He's been doing it since before I was here. He's great. He comes back every summer. Kids love him. He loves our kids. So that's nice. We had two speech pathologists. seven program teachers. three tutors and 18 assistants.
Changes that we made for 2025. I did send communication about is why out four weeks earlier? So in the past. it had gone out beginning of April. I sent it out beginning of March. hoping that that was helpful. It was still. I get it. I signed my kids up for camp in like a couple weeks. I mean. it's crazy. so I get it. but I'm trying to send out as much communication as possible. early as possible. Nay. I worked really close. Nay. I worked really closely. This year we were able to do some coordination between Pegasus and our programming. which was really nice. So that was that was great. And then I did send out some surveys this year. like I said. for their Boston resident students. and then for our students who get tutoring. I sent out surveys like asking beforehand. like. what is your availability? Or what would you prefer for timing? Do you want virtual? Do you know. just to get a sense before I schedule everything and then nobody can make it. So I kind of tried to work the other way. So those things seem to help. Definitely. having it at Loker with Pegasus was great. We have a lot of kids who leave Pegasus. you know. just to come for a half hour for speech or. you know. tutoring. And then we have a lot of kids who leave at 11:30 and then go right to Pegasus. So that's great too. And that's all I have. Another successful year Betsy Gavron: transitioning. and speaking of a good partnership with Pegasus. we have Nay. right here. Nayagara Viera: Yeah. I actually liked to mention. not just Pegasus. and put. like. these STEAM Explorers as well. because was the first year we're trying with middle school. And we want. like to have a brand as well. like the middle school. because we saw that Pegasus is a very nice brand. But for the middle school. they're already cool and older enough needed to be a catch name. and we put it like pegs. as a team explorers. and the core values is the same. But I think the focus and even the training of the staff in the beginning was for to include all the students. that all of them can try if you have the right support. and I collaborate a lot with Ronnie and her team. to include all the students in our field trips and our offerings and and the goal for Pegasus and Steam explorers is still like for them to engage and help them to thrive and have problem solving. resilience and teamwork. And we are proud that we extended offering to preschool now to grade 12. And I will talk a little bit more. What was those items that we often had received some feedback throughout the year. we change on our summer program
Pegasus by the numbers. we had 134 kids from preschool to fifth grade. We had 19 middle schoolers. six high schoolers doing the CIT program. We still run as two. three week sections. and with collaboration with ESI we couldn't lower our ratio to five to one. because we appointed also some staff when we need. like. a one on one. or we need some teacher assistant. we share the staff. and we will be able to across all the groups have the support that kids needed on the group they were on the grade. if you can pass. please. And what was new this year. we extend our enrollment for until almost the end of May. and parents. of course. They reach out later. and we have availability. We add them to our program. We had 29 days. was very quickly for us to do the training and set up. We basically have a whole school and low care because we have a huge trailer that we need to set up everything for us to be successful in our program. but we were able to do 29 days this year. We continue to offer the flex scheduling that is very helpful for the kids. Also that do we ask why we have into one. into three. 3:30. now this year. we extend. like. 30 minutes make a little bit difference on the selection in the afternoon as well. and also not to hit traffic. That was very good. We saw even for the parents come in at 3:30 we have a lot of parents coming 3:30 before we have. like. still at three was hard for them to come from the pool and have the time to decompress and prep to leave. and that was a good extending hour. And we'll continue. We extend the range for the Middle school. as I mentioned. and we are calling STEAM explorers and another piece as well. we start the enrollment in January. but we extended to May. and we inform the parents all what we would be offered this year ahead of time. because for them to know what is the field trips and what is the events for if they planning vacation For the kids not to lose any of the offering. And I also collaborate with Ronnie for the ESI students. the service for them not to meet to miss. like the musician or miss something that's exciting happening as well. That was very good. Collaboration with our inclusion specialist that we had to that was Renee. called a little. helped a lot. and they are amazing. if you can pass the CIT program. What was kind of new this year? We collaborated. I did an interview with all of them. and what was the goal for them to do? And I was so exciting to know that even if they don't want teaching. they still want communication. leadership. And with that. I could build the CITs throughout the summer where they could give back to the kids in a way. they are leading some of the activities and some of the events. and they could collaborate as a team. And you couldn't see like senior collaborating with like. almost a freshman. because it's 14 to seniors. and this was a good collaboration for them. And also we discussed with Alison if they could get community service hours. and the hours that they worked. They were able to do the community service hours. and I couldn't sign the form for them. And they participate in all our training. staff training as well. and their online training that they were kept to lead the some of the activities. Here are some pictures just to show what happened. And was very funny. And took. like a while for me to select what is the best pictures. because we had so many good pictures and we did so many things. And if you can. and I just go very quickly in the highlight of the activities every day. we had a specialty. this way. like all the kids couldn't go through all the specialties that we had. We had arts and crafts. science.
theater kind of movement. Drama. Sports. in a way that we select a staff that love the area and want to learn and tied to the team of the week. This way we couldn't go into work if they're learning for dinosaur and they can do different ways of the learning and they in the whole setup of the whole week was about the team that we had select before and in the afternoons this year also was new was the STEAM creating lab. The parents could choose if the kids went to go to the pool or stay to the creation lab. And in there we have. like. every week. Shark Tank edition with right brain curriculum. I think adding them should add it. We have. like a store. and the kids got like fake Texas dollars. and it was the sensations. because they collected the dollars throughout the week. being like a good camper and also participating in the activities and the Shark Tank. They created their own project and pitch their own inventions and other all the things like they. they staff was very creative. And it was amazing how creative they got. And a point that once. like. this staff was like. Oh. you're going not to believe I kind of gave. like the kids. like. $100 should not and I was like. that's fine. They and they were saving. They were learning how to save the money to buy the toys. That was. like. more expensive. And then we needed to. of course. put inflation in our store. to be like. Oh. my God. these kids. they'll work for the money. But this part was very good. And we had. like. also. like. some nice community partners coming if you can pass. We had the fire department and the police department coming. It was amazing. They came with all the cars and kids scooter on the Professional Edition week learned about our field trips. We did so many. nice few trips. We went to Harvard Museum. we went to Anette medical organic farm. and the kids could learn how to be a farmer and do some chores and pet some chickens. it was nice. could you pass please? And they enhance topics. We kind of tried to separate and three main goals for them. for even for the teachers to develop the curriculum for this summer was like a team focused activities where we had. like. hands on projects. and they couldn't do problem solving and teamwork. And want to highlight was the day that the CIT labs. being scientists of the day. they all dressed up as a scientist with lab coat and glasses. Was so much fun. and they were running science experiment. I'm sorry. I'm have a science background. I'm crazy about it. and we developed the CIT like the science experience that the kids could do. And even a mini microscope. we had it as well. Was was nice and arts and crafts as well. We have karaoke. We have a photo booth that they could like do. like infusion of the creativity as well. and dress up and work as a team. And every week was they how it was very crazy in the beginning. because everybody wanted to know what it was like. They the inflatables of the week and the animals in the dinosaur was the sensational. because they have like those for them to take pictures and learn. And always was infused these animals or the team throughout the activities in the week too. And of course. our indoor. outdoor work activities. we have a carnival week. We do like scavenger hunt. and we infuse the math literacy on the Pegasus dollars and they couldn't also learn math and save and do. like. some real financing in banking. even deposit the money with the teacher and redraw after the next week. Was very interesting. This part. Yeah. that was everything. Betsy Gavron: Good Time was half by all of Pegasus. David Fleishman: I just want to say one of the long time Pegasus staff members stopped both of us a matter of fact. just to say what a terrific job Nay did in terms of her innovative programming and her leadership. So I want to publicly recognize you and thank you. You're also modest when you say you have a science background in addition to being an excellent program director. Nye is a dentist. Erin Gibbons: That's what I thought when she said David Fleishman: she really you could introduce a lot into a summer program. So yes. she does it all during the summer. So thank you. Nye. for doing such a great job. Thank you. Christina Rodrigo: Thank you. I heard some feedback about the middle school program. how there was a student there. whose is very hard to please. and loved it. Really really liked it.So that's saying a lot. Nayagara Viera: .Yeah. it was. was nice. We were trying. like to. the hardest part was to bring them back to elementary school. how we're going to do that. and we put them in the second floor. they have. like. a special t shirt. and what we were trying like to make them feel welcome. even though was like instilling in middle school. But what was successful. and we couldn't also expand for some of the students that Ronnie needed to place on ESI. and they weren't able now to continue in Pegasus. because now we have a middle school program. Betsy Gavron: Thank you Nay. So the Metco program also offered a couple different programs this year. the middle school Transitions Program and the Summer Enrichment Program. So the goals for the summer transitions the transitions program was to help middle schools begin to develop those student skills. It was held right at the middle school. They got to get a feel for the building. I was in one day. and you know. there were already seemed very comfortable. sort of moving through the hallways and getting getting their way around the building. Also. that helps them get ready to come back to school and to come back with confidence. One of the beautiful pieces about it. is really to build that cohort from the three different elementary schools. the kids coming together. and make them. you know. a little bit less anxious about that transition to middle school. Which is which. as you know. as many of you know. is a big is a big transition. So the focus of the program. there was some academic pieces. They there was a some science work. math. work. music. Bernadette had was in with the with drumming. They did a lot of drumming there. Jen Judkins came by and did tech talks with the kids and taught them some got them familiar with some of the platforms that they would be using once they were at the middle school. And they also built their student skills. I know the rocket. Rocket work was a big hit while they were there. Additionally. we continued with the Building Community through the circle practices. And they would do daily circle practices talking about some you know. key topics to help them be successful when they're in the middle school. that notion of being an upstander. of having integrity. of when you give your word to somebody in you know. what does that mean? And really think about that core. core values in a community. So that was an exciting. exciting component. You can see the kids all with their their T shirts on when they were getting ready. ready for their field trips as well. There's also a summer enrichment program that happened in Boston again. also to help summer aggression and prepare some of our youngest students. the incoming K students. for the full day K helping increase their confidence and additionally provide some child care options for families during the summer. also to have them less anxious about making that transition. you know. all the way to out there. to elementary school. So they the Metco summer school that took place in Boston. really offered an academic based set of learning experiences for folks. also including math. science. reading. writing. research skills. social studies. probably fewer research skills than the kindergarten kids. but certainly doing that. and there were enrichment classes and field trips as well. So there were 12 kids who were served by this program this summer. Betsy Cullen: Is that in K through five. Betsy. that's k to five. Yes.
Betsy Gavron: in addition to the kids these the adult learning that goes on the summer is fairly comprehensive as well. So David mentioned. I think last. last time we were together about our administrative retreat. you can see some photos of us Learning in Action. What you see there is. we had just gone through some scarf threat. teaching and working with and there is a simulation going on right there. In that right hand picture. there's a group of folks who are acting as a faculty. and you can't see Brian Jones. sort of leading a meeting in there. and the folks in the audience here are identifying what. what of the different SCARF threats are they seeing coming through? So which stands for Just different ways people can be activated. around. around things. when. when. particularly when change is happening. What? What gets triggered for folks? So that was a very active and engaging. engaging time that we had in terms of adult learning. there were also. as we mentioned. more restorative justice training that happened this summer. Last year we history in the fifth grade. They've been piloting it that trained two groups in in tier one training. and this year we trained another tier one training set and a tier two two set. so a little bit more advanced for problem solving. circles. those kind of pieces. So a number of us engaged in that. Caroline ran a culturally responsive teaching in the brain. You may recall that all staff in their first three years are required to do some culturally proficiency work with us. and one of the options is through the course that Caroline teaches. I just found out some offerings today through ideas. We have a membership of ideas that were is another opportunity for folks to learn. 44 folks engaged in co teaching training and work together. All of the partnerships spent two days together doing some of that work. And there's also a course offered by Bethann Monahan and Jake Montway at the middle school about exploring the possibilities of planning with AI. And we get some great feedback about folks who had gone. gone there. alright. And as always. there's summer work that happens that is funded through our operating budget.
last year in a couple of classrooms. and now the whole fifth grade will be be using that new curriculum. The there's some more foundation. scope and sequence work. really doing some alignment of the instruction. Assess. an assessment. The Sexual Abuse Awareness curriculum was updated by a team this summer at the middle school level. there was some writing and math skills curriculum work with our special educators who are focusing on more skill based classes there. There was work with the writing center. You may recall that we were shifting some of the people who would be in the Writing Center were more content areas teachers. So there was some real training there and really thinking through what that might look like and work. Quite a bit of Spanish Immersion curriculum development happened this this summer as well. both in revising in sixth grade and seventh grade work. So the partner teachers got together and did a lot of that work. Some some highlights. At the high school. we had a ninth grade ELA team book feast. where there's a number of titles read by a bunch of teachers. and they made some plans for adopting some new titles in in some small group work. and some may. may become whole class work. There. there's some updating the high school statistics. data sets and problems to really pull some relevant data that would be engaging for kids. There's some really interesting data that they pulled the unified wellness work that we talked about earlier in the spring. Much of that was time was dedicated to planning that new strand that we have. And then there's always some nice work across districts. So K through 12 work. again. on the wellness curriculum development. Scott talked about. right at the I think. our last meeting. our second to last meeting. about how some over the summer. they continue that work with developing curriculum and alignment. And same with the El work. the scope and sequence is really looking at what that the work looks like at the different WIDA levels. which just means that. you know. some kids come in with very little English. until they're almost proficient. So what does that look like across the levels? So that's just a few of the highlights. The the image that you see there was. was actually from some summer work that had to do with Sarah Ward's book series. They had digested them all and created some lessons that are going to be used across. across the grades there. So some of the clock knowledge is really important skills. So that is a summary of some of the things that happened here this summer. David Fleishman: Excellent. Thank you. Now we're going to shift from the summer to the school year. so at our last meeting on August 18. we talked about goals. and that's excellent feedback. So we adjusted some measurements in the goals. We also added. I know Erin. you had talked about facilities in particular a goal. and we worked with kirsteen. you know. as a really strong background on operations. we have a new ticketing system and operations that will monitor carefully and monitor consistency. So that is an additional strategic action in our operations section. along with. you know. all the refinements you suggested. mostly around measuring some around academic achievement in particular.
Unknown: we don't have that's we we don't set a goal. Erin Mueller: We have them from last meeting. but. Erin Gibbons: yeah. we don't know. Erin Mueller: We don't have the new ones. Betsy Gavron: Okay. okay. I'll pull them up. Betsy Cullen: No. I think what we had last time was a PDF. So it won't be the last Betsy Gavron: I thought it was a live talk. so I thought it was already updated for you. My apologies. David Fleishman: Okay. all right. we will pull it up. Christina Rodrigo: While you're pulling it up. I just want to go back like 10 seconds and just acknowledge all the work that ESI did. it was an awesome summer. My family. you know. loved it. It was for. Really helpful for my children. So thank you to you guys and all the staff that worked through the summer. Ronnie Kessler: Yeah. it really was. once the first couple days are always like running around. But it was. it was made a lot of returning staff. which was nice. and a lot of the programming was pretty seamless. so thanks. David Fleishman: we will My apologies.
Unknown: Oh. good. I'm glad my No. Betsy do you have it. right? David Fleishman: I can try Betsy Gavron: I haven't it just umm.
Betsy Gavron: to. yeah. I did. maybe just carry over.
Betsy Gavron: I did could we make copies for people. real Erin Mueller: No.
quick. what would be Erin Gibbons: if you just do Betsy Gavron: have it. I have it here. Unknown: I mean. I mean. Erin's gonna be nice David Fleishman: We want to show you one particular. you know. the one I mentioned. Erin Gibbons: can you share it with the folder. and then I can pull it up. and you can pull it up. Betsy Gavron: Diane. you have the document. Can you pop it in the folder? I just don't know how to do you do it on that computer. Erin Gibbons: Okay. let's if you share it with me. I can put in the folder. perfect. David Fleishman: Okay. Erin Gibbons: and that way. Betsy Gavron: The computer is just not very happy right now. Maybe. it's just spinning. spinning. spinning. David Fleishman: I can I can share it. You want to share exactly? Erin Gibbons: Yeah. that would be great. Yeah. if they're the revised ones. yes. Betsy Gavron: it's just stuck. Unknown: I do that. Dave. I'm going to just do a quick restart of my computer. David Fleishman: Here's mine. All right. Erin. I'm going to Erin Gibbons: okay. and then I can just put in the folder. if just share with you. David Fleishman: All right. okay. you should have it that's easier. Betsy Gavron: sorry. Sharing is unavailable at this time. Please try later. David Fleishman: You should have Unknown: my favorite message.
Erin Gibbons: Are you gonna pull it up on the screen? Betsy. no. Erin Gibbons: I got it I can. Unknown: I
you can't. right. gav: As soon as this restarts. it's okay. Erin Gibbons: No worries. Okay. Unknown: And For some reason i i movement Tom work From my right to my left. Are you? Erin Gibbons: I'm sending it to them. Let me put it in the folder. David Fleishman: Do you want me to share with everybody individually? Erin Gibbons: I just did it. Okay. All good. Unknown: So the. in addition to refining. as I mentioned. the it educational goals. we added an operational piece around development. strengthening the partnership to do town and school facilities teams. I. I see develop a plan to approve existing buildings to provide sustainable and up to date learning environment. just the last piece under additional rules on the first page. Erin Gibbons: Got it I got it is that the only update from the one that we reviewed at our last meeting. David Fleishman: We have updates. I'll give you an example of other updates. The other updates are around. Let me go to the Town. There was nothing more in community. nothing on students services. There was an additional you had asked about the Middle School.
One thing we had was about executive functioning. was establishing baseline skills relative to developmental expectations and establishing targets for improvement. We've talked about how to measure some of the work around executive functioning. Actually talked about that in opening day in terms of as a critical priority. and so that was one is really getting some baseline skills. because this is kind of year one of an initiative we also updated. Let me go down you had questions about the middle school and accountable talk. which.
Erin Gibbons: yeah. kind of fleshing that out and giving it sort of like a rename or right.not rename. but you know what I mean? David Fleishman: Yep. that is right. Unknown: Last bullet three. I'm on page three. Yeah. that's on page three. Let me find it
right. I want Erin Gibbons: Oh. but I don't see it as Erin Mueller: I just used versioning history. right? Erin Gibbons: Which one did where? So.
David Fleishman: yeah. okay. we double check on that one. Hang on a second. Let me go to that one for one second. Unknown: We mean it one double check of run for the Star. Check
I picked
Erin Mueller: I just don't restore it. I
Erin Gibbons: Can I ask a question so Kirstine specific to the additional new goal. the collaborate or piece to the goal. operational goal. collaborate with town facilities to have a cohesive line of communication with regard to custodial expectations and results. and then utilize a work order system that prioritizes urgent requests.
I think. will that. So I think one piece that confuses me about this is that the custodians have. like a dual report structure. right between like you and Michael Faia. right? Like. Kirsteen Patterson: not really. Erin Gibbons: No. have you clarified that Kirsteen Patterson: Yes Erin Gibbons: So maybe that's fixing the problem. Okay? And so the system will be utilized by school personnel only to input a ticket. Is that the idea. Kirsteen Patterson: yes. Erin Gibbons: okay. Kirsteen Patterson: And it's really specific to Building Principles. Erin Gibbons: Okay Kirsteen Patterson: Assistant Principals and I have capability oversight for any building so I can. I can do a ticket on behalf of. Erin Gibbons: okay. Kirsteen Patterson: and have all of them attached to it so that they can see that it's been entered. and any status updates that we get as things are being addressed. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Kirsteen Patterson: And I will track all of them. And it also has a delineation that we can identify the ranking of urgent at a later time. you know. And so it really gives you some drill down data to look at what types of work orders. what types of things are being entered in. and to be able to have some accountability with facilities team as well. and to be able to show what has been done Erin Gibbons: Okay Kirsteen Patterson: versus also still. what still needs to be done. So I think that's a piece that we really want to be able to communicate and show that. yes. there's. there's a lot of things that still need to happen and take place. and there is a lot of efforts being made. And look at everything that has already been accomplished and checked off of that list from the work orders that have come through. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Kirsteen Patterson: so we're really trying to establish a good communication pipe so that we're not just tagging a custodian in the moment. that we really document something and that it is. that is then sent to Mike Faia. so he he really is going to be the person that communicates with custodial team and is able to manage and mobilize who what. building what needs to be done. and really kind of orchestrate that so that things are done quickly. promptly and based on what true emergency requests are versus just my blinds are broken. and I really would like that fixed right now. but there's a pipe leaking in another building. so it gives that ability to really mobilize the fleet that we have and to prioritize our resources in that capacity. Erin Gibbons: Okay? And so when I read this. I look at it as like. things that you may not have been expecting would be put through that. like work order. ticket system. like a roofie leak. A roofie leak. a leaky roof. or a leaking pipe. versus. also. it sounds like. or it reads to me like. coupled with that. you're looking to kind of have. like a standard of care for each building. of regular things that should be happening. and then maybe potentially. like. say. getting water turned on for a garden at a school that maybe that's like on the regular schedule of like between. you know. mid March and end of April. like you're. you're turning the water on at all the schools. or whatever it is like. that's just an easy example for me to pull it up. Kirsteen Patterson: And so it's not just like a standard of care. but standard of communication. because we want our I want our small custodial maintenance team to be able to do what they have already and not be addressed by everybody walking through the hallway and sees them on their path to the next location or the next job that they've already got identified. So we want to really try to mobilize the communication. the style. how it's recorded and reported. so that we have that ability to look back and say. Well. gee. we have all these open tickets at the middle school. Why aren't any of these being addressed? And the answer is. because he's getting all these sticky notes from everybody. giving him 12.000 other things. So we want to eliminate the sticky note. and we want everything to be addressed and again. prioritizing through the building principles. As to. is this really rising to the work order. ticket necessity. or is this something that okay? You know. we'll have a conversation down the road. but we really want to make this a tightened up process so that we have better accountability. So we should just have them wear shirts that have. like a QR code on the front and back that people can just scan. direct you to here. This is my ticket. Yes. okay. that's a that's great. Betsy Cullen: Maybe hats. Kate Sambuco: The shirt will say don't. don't stop me. Erin Gibbons: Please don't stop me. Christina Rodrigo: Submit a ticket to my next job. Erin Mueller: I want one of those. Erin Gibbons: Don't talk to me about it. Now. scan the QR code. Gotta have a ticket. Unknown: Start saying that work. Christina Rodrigo: Cute. Erin Gibbons: Okay. so. and I remember there being and. sorry. I don't mean to take this over. I remember there being question. Questions about implementing like benchmarks to show progress. completion. and so were those things. David Fleishman: for example. we like if you look at if you look at Sarah Ward and executive function. if we go to that one. that's the up there. you'll first place. yeah. the first place you see. you'll see there. establish baseline skills relative to developmental expectations. establish target goals for improvement. That's kind of the benchmark baseline skills right there. That's what we talked about. You know. specifically. executive function was one. Betsy Gavron: And I know that the executive function work they did this year was to pull together a whole bunch of resources so they have the age. at each age span what kids should be able to do. So we want to compare what kids are actually doing to that. and then. based on the deficits we saw are to be focusing lessons in services. Erin Gibbons: And that was something we talked about with you. right. Ronnie. about the group that you work with to like what kids really should be doing. Betsy Gavron: And they did that work this summer. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. it was okay. So I remember talking about. David Fleishman: I mentioned that even in my note about executive functioning with one of the focus is some of the some of the summer work. yeah. y Betsy Cullen: eah. maybe something our families would welcome seeing. if it's digestible totally parents have would benefit maybe from a little understanding. Erin Gibbons: off expectations. I'm sure I have off expectations. Ronnie Kessler: When I talked to. met with SEPAC. mean. I know it's bigger than a special ed issue. but we did talk about maybe devoting a meeting to that. So then maybe we can coordinate with PTO and open it up to. you know. beyond just the SEPAC meeting. but just to kind of present. like. here's all of the information and then just some tips and tools. Erin Gibbons: yeah. Like an I think tips and tools David Fleishman: teachers are learning this is what students are going to be exposed to in school based on our teachers are learning as a result here. we can talk about how to do that. That would be nice follow up. Erin Gibbons: yeah. because it's also not just the tips and tools. but understanding. like right sizing your expectations of your kid. like my nine year old shouldn't be doing her own Betsy Gavron: okay. got it right? laundry. Erin Mueller: But she can. Unknown: but it's a nice. you know. yeah. Christina Rodrigo: We could make it more inclusive and kind of cross pollination into the SEPAC. which. you know. only SEPAC people go to SEPAC. right. yeah. right. We were going to open draw a bigger circle. right? David Fleishman: And general ed. Ronnie Kessler: right. yeah. And K through 12. Erin Gibbons: totally. right. totally. Christina Rodrigo: all grades and Betsy Cullen: or K through retirement. who knows?
Ronnie Kessler: yeah. So I did. We did talk about that at our meeting. so get a date on the books for that and David Fleishman: talk to principals about how to kind of make this a topic. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. it's like that crossover of and I'm probably beating a dead horse. but you know the language that's used in the schools and and being able to to understand it at home. potentially mirrored at home. reuse it at home. reinforce at home. It's that same type of idea. you know. if. if everyone's kind of living the same expectations and knowing Erin Gibbons: Limit. exactly that's what I mean Betsy Cullen: some of RCL. right? Betsy Cullen: like language. emotions. Erin Gibbons: yeah 100% Betsy Cullen: . mindfulness. you know. Erin Gibbons: red zone. I live in the red zone. Sorry. David Fleishman: not just football. but you're the red zone. Betsy Cullen: No other meeting in Wayland public school. Unknown: Yeah. you know. yeah. no i. I agree. yeah. Erin Gibbons: And fro some of it's also like being able to know when you should be pushing your kid on an expectation of something that they should be doing right. like. if it's even just taking more agency for themselves and advocating for themselves. like what level that sort of falls at. that's all really helpful. David Fleishman: You know. as we think about our focus for community engagement. this year. you know. later on. a three portrait of a learner. and we're going to do something later on about our master facilities plan. But I think we can weave this in as a third piece on the executive function around. like an instructional goal. around community engagement. So we will talk about how to do that at each level. because. obviously it's different developmentally. but I think people are really interested in that. Christina Rodrigo: It's also nice to have meetings about stuff that's not like a problem to be solved. right? It's just like pro-act here to like. learn stuff. These are proactive. Erin Mueller: embracing. embracing. Ronnie Kessler: It's really strategies Erin Mueller: right Christina Rodrigo: and that go beyond school. Betsy Cullen: Life skills Unknown: life. yeah. Erin Mueller: Is there a great book on this? Could you do a community talk on this? Unknown: are. yeah. there are some. David Fleishman: There are some. certainly some good ones we can. Ronnie Kessler: or at least have. we could have them available. like Betsy Cullen: I heard it. the committee asked for homework. David Fleishman: Don't want to give too much reading. but we Erin Gibbons: I didn't ask for homework. Ronnie Kessler: Just a recommendation.
Erin Gibbons: Just give me the FAQ sheet. please.at each of my child's age grade level. No. like they sent me home with their physicals .from seven to eight. your child. she should be doing this. right? Is she using the pincer grasp? She got it.
Erin Mueller: I know that wasn't really that they were really little. That was extremely helpful. Erin Gibbons: right Erin Mueller: We have a lot of these talks in our house now. What is age appropriate? Erin Gibbons: This? Anyone who knows Brynn will really get a kick out of this. She was two. she. like. didn't say a word. And I brought early intervention. And I was like. Yeah. something's wrong because Taylor. like. said full sentences at like. you know. nine months or something. not seriously. but. and so I brought them in. and they're like. so once this kid starts. you're gonna want her to stop. because she's getting all of her needs met. and because she's. she's communicating with you. It's just not verbally. like in the words or whatever. And they were right. She started. and now I can't get her to stop. But that was like. my expectation was only on my first kid. so on my second. I was like. she's so behind. What's going on? They were like. no. no. yes. she's good. Kate Sambuco: Older siblings talk for them Erin Gibbons: . yeah. yeah. And there's that piece. and so. yeah. you know. okay.
some of these evidence data under the outcomes and measurements where you have surveys. will you share the educator survey data? I'm not asking for. like. it can be blind. but just. will you share that with us. even if it's not necessarily at the table? You know? David Fleishman: Yeah. no. We could. to survey even you saw even this summer. I know. I know we forwarded you. like our surveys from our summer retreat. Yeah. yeah. We do them regularly. It's really helpful to us to figure out how we can adjust and improve and and do that. absolutely.
Erin Mueller: And I guess my question in general. is part of the work of the year. determining and developing how you'll demonstrate and how you'll show the analytics and the data. that's that's part of what we're doing. like you're setting out the goal to do that. and then over the course of the year. you determine how. okay. David Fleishman: some of it's new as kind of baseline data. or. in the case of. you know. things like reading or some of the math. that's kind of ongoing assessments in the range. And some is taking a look at kind of assessing as we have. like co-teaching. If you go to the co-teaching goal for a second. For example.
there is so. you know. Erin. this is one where it's like multiple it's looking at kind of some of the achievement data right over time. but it's also some surveys from different stakeholders to get a sense of how people perceive it's going. So that's like on a multiple level.
Erin Gibbons: in my little lawyer hat that I wear. not at this table. I uh. your language makes me a little bit nervous
-with indicates satisfaction. I guess. like overall satisfaction. because some families may not love co teaching. but the results may reflect.
yeah. you know what I mean? David Fleishman: Yes. Erin Gibbons: I got you. David Fleishman: That is true. I. Thank you for that.
Erin Gibbons: and I may change it to co-teaching models versus partnerships. Co- teaching model. David Fleishman: yeah. Betsy Cullen: or classroom or something. I Erin Gibbons: right? Because sometimes. like. maybe it's not the right fit for these teachers. but the teachers in general are like. Yes. this is good. We're going to do some swapping or something like that. Anyway.
Are there any other specific things that people remember that they wanted to look at or talk about.
Erin Mueller: No. I looked at the language already of some of the changes that we asked for. and Unknown: it looks like Erin Mueller: it felt like it was covered. Unknown: Yeah.
cullen: the measurement and goals are more concrete in areas where we talked about it last time. Thank you for that David Fleishman: feedback. and we'll certainly talk about them. Actually. this leads nicely into our final topic. after student attendance. which is how we report out to you on this over the course of the year.So can we do student attendance and then get to or do you want to in terms of our next two topics? Erin Gibbons: I was going to ask if you wanted us to vote to approve. David Fleishman: That would be great perfect Yes. before we do that. Thank you.
Erin Gibbons: Does anybody want to make a motion?
We rephrase that. the chair would entertain a motion.
Erin Mueller: I will make a motion to approve the 2025. 2026. district goals as presented. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Do we have a second? Unknown: Second. Erin Gibbons: All in favor? Aye. Any opposed. I said. Okay. great. Thank you forreally working hard on these. but also like acknowledging our feedback and working on David Fleishman: appreciate we appreciate the feedback. Now we're going to shift to student attendance Unknown: from over here. David Fleishman: looking at our data from last year. you'll remember that DESE's motto at the start of last year was -Your presence is power. I definitely Betsy Gavron: I definitely was. and we had a particular challenge with our with our data last year. So So tonight. we'll be talking about sort of. what was the context of the goal. and why did we set it? What was that district goal? What if the efforts been since then and then. what is the date and results of our of our work last year. So why are we focusing on attendance. the so as you may recall. we were seeing spikes in anxiety and mental health leading up to the pandemic. and then certainly exacerbated by the pandemic itself. And coming out of the pandemic. we were seeing a huge increase in family travel during the school year. Part of that was because I believe. you know. people couldn't see their family for so long. there was just a big increase in folks who hadn't seen family from abroad. And so folks were taking advantage of every opportunity they could. I think people also. you know. got used to living in some other places for times. So so there's a real kind of shift back to and so we had a significant increase in our chronic absenteeism. which is defined as when you're absent for 10% or more of the school year. So that's 18 or more days. And we saw this particularly with particular subgroups. If you. some of you are here. when we developed our Student Opportunity Act plan. which really looked at the combination between student attendance and achievement. particularly for those subgroups who were doing significantly. not as well as their as their peers. So here is a look at that grim data. From there. we had 17.9% of all students in our entire district were were chronically absent. which is a lot of kids really out a lot of the school year. And you can see that was almost double. or exactly double. for our Black and African American students. Our English learners. who are not part of our SOA target group when we created the SOA plan. because their achievement was actually some of the highest in the state. So despite. despite their their lower attendance. they were still performing strong. but we have kept a close. closer eye on their attendance because of this data. our low income students were significantly more than double our other population. and our students with disabilities were more than 10% higher than the population overall. We get zero out of four points in our one for district accountability and at all the schools when we're kind of looking at our overall. how we're how we're looked at across this row. So so that 23-24 data in particular was completely problematic. Christina Rodrigo: That's the difference between high needs and students with disabilities. Betsy Gavron: So it's. it's. it's actually often a combination of of subgroups. so you have multiple. multiple areas. So it's. it can be. you know. students with disabilities that are also. that also may be low income. So it's typically. your kids in high needs are a cross section of multiple. Christina Rodrigo: okay Betsy Gavron: areas. So it's not those plus those. it's those are encompassed by. if that makes sense. Betsy Cullen: So there's overlap in that inter Betsy Gavron: intersectionality between those. So our district goal. Ronnie. you if you memorized our district goals from earlier. We talked about really having a need for that consistent. proactive set of attendance strategies. particularly for those students who were were missing school due to mental health reasons. So we were focused on creating and and playing out a vertically consistent. research based set of strategies to prevent patterns of school refusal and really trying to align our practices across the district. So you can see the list of outcomes and measurements we were shooting for you go to the next slide. Ronnie.
we took a three prong approach to this. So we developed school based attendance teams. not like these didn't exist before. but really with consistent sort of protocols around what was happening and how often it was happening. So those school based teams. which typically included an administrator. the school nurse. your counseling teams. So they met at least every three weeks. specifically to focus on the weekly attendance reports and use that to tier their intervention around who needs what. Additionally. we had two district groups. a an attendance working group and an attendance team. The working group. we met five times over the course of the year. we spent our time really researching best practices. looking at kind of the legal requirements as well. and used that to develop communication and communications that we sent out consistently and different tools to try. the Attendance Team had a slightly different focus. They were really looking at the data holistically. So were there patterns across families? Were there places in particular areas? And we had folks on that team that include people like Jay Verhoosky from Wayland Youth and Family Services. Heather Yates the head of Nursing. Ronnie's part of that team. La Toya is a part of that team. And then we had a an administrator from every building that came together and and we problem solved and troubleshooted and and tried to make make some headway. So the areas of focus you may recall. David did some real early messaging around the importance of attendance. Every school principal also sent their own message. messaging around why strong attendance is important. We were pulling different infographics to use to try to really convey the importance of this. The working group developed different emails and letters that came out. and in those early messages. we let people know that we would be sending regular attendance information out. because one of the things we know about school attendance is oftentimes. families. kids. adults. underestimate the number of days that are missed. So that's a very strong in the research. so that the updating families around how often their children have missed. You know that can be tricky. too. You know. you know that the child was out with with covid for a week or with strep throat for a week. and we're still sending the letters just. just. just so you know the numbers and we realize why they were out. but just to to kind of follow through with the consistency around the communication. we also looked at some shared truancy and attendance information that families just might not know. like some families don't know that they are legally required to get their children to school. that that there's. you know. they can be held accountable for not child to school on a regular basis. Yes. Betsy. can I ask a question on that the communication that was sent out? Was it general or Or was it specific to the individual? Unknown: Like. specific to the individual. okay. but I guess. like the context of it. like the I understand the number would be specific. but the messaging in general. like. we understand your child was out sick. However. something Betsy Gavron: galike it was sort of like a something that went to everybody. okay. we say. and we know you. we know why you were out and why did you know this and this number. but okay. and the reasons why the intended is so important was communicated in so the group crafted letters that were sent at four days and eight days at the high school. just because of the way their crediting system works. and and at the other buildings. it was five or 10 days. and then there was a 15 day letter as well. We also made a decision. once we were deeper into the year. like two thirds of the way through the year. you weren't sending like a four day letter. because that's nowhere near chronic absenteeism. So we adjusted as we went through the year.
Another thing that we did was to really align our intervention planning. So we had an aligned intervention monitoring spreadsheets that we were using. We came up with some attendance intervention plans that were used across the board with particular things to try. We created a counselor information gathering form that would be an interview that folks could do withwith families. kind of to try to troubleshoot what's what's at the heart of why the child's not coming to school. as well as a student interview form that we created so so we could get information directly from kids. even younger kids. and we spent some time really focused on celebrating improvement. too. So if you click to the next slide Ron. you can see. So here's an example of a couple pages from the interview for students asking kids. you know. to be able to feel about how they feel about coming to school. what's hard about school. to try to identify some of those things when I'm at school. what are the things that are true for you? And based on that. that can help inform what intervention. you know. if you think a child's coming. you know. not coming to school because they're having some challenges with friendships. then you work on the friendship area. If they're having. you know. just feeling worried in general. what are some coping strategies? So. so these can help really inform what the intervention looks like. So was the interview done on a like situational basis. if it was a student who was trending to more absenteeism. or was it done to generally. to students we were piloting it last year? So I think it Jen in general to sort of because sometimes we may have a whole hypothesis that may not be true. and so you want to get the information from the from the kids. Here a couple. You can see there was a we created a big congratulation banner that could go at a top of an email to. you know. students who had made improvements. So maybe they were really struggling for a semester. and we noticed. we wanted to just really indicate. like we see you. we see that you're trying at this. And then there's the elementary version. where we put the child's picture in them. That's not one of our students. That's just a mock up. but where we put the pictures in and sent those out. we got some positive feedback about that as well. So what were the results of these efforts? So if you recall. before we were at almost 18% we were down to 10.3% last March. this is what's posted on the website. When it's fully updated. will be down to 10.2% by the end of the year. and all of our other numbers have dropped considerably. So if you can go to the next slide. Ronnie. Christina Rodrigo: this is really remarkable. I just want to pause. I mean. the average number of absences went down almost by 10 days! Betsy Cullen: Well. this is as of March. though Betsy Gavron: there was still percentage wise as of Betsy Cullen: the percentage held true. but the number of days were still missing April through June. Betsy Gavron: yes. but we were down. So we were 10.3% of our students were chronic absenteeism on headed for that in March. and we were down to 10.2% by the end of the year. so that you know there was a real significant drop. You can see our attendance trends over time too. We're not quite back to the pre pandemic. but we're back. We're actually below where kind of we were right after the pandemic. Erin Gibbons: and we dropped Covid absence requirements quite significantly last year. So Betsy Gavron: you go to the next slide. you can see these were our three subgroups from our SOA group. We went. you know. there's. there's still more work to do. You know. we have significant improvement. and having almost a quarter of our students who are Black and African American. absent for 18 days is still a lot. but but dropping 10% or more across all of our subgroups was. was. was progress that we felt really good about. Erin Mueller: It's really exciting. Christina Rodrigo: Thank you. Betsy Gavron: This is very hard at it. So. I mean. really. Ronnie was at all the meetings. You know. we had lots of people coming together. thinking really hard doing significant outreach. principles. reaching out over the summer to families who had been behind like. we really want your child to have a strong start. So a lot of relationship building. you know. really thinking about who are the trusted adults for kids. We want kids to want to be at school. So and. you know. some some harder conversations with some families to it. And still. you know. we say. Please. please. please. don't take that trip now. And some families are still making those choices for probably really good reasons. for David Fleishman: even the first two days. you know. I was worried about the first two days of school. and we'll get the final numbers for you. just because. you know. I thought if the kids were missing the first two series of school. or some of the same students were missing on this list. That's not a good way to start the year. Erin Gibbons: So just 1/3 of my kids missed the second day of school.
Erin Mueller: Its tough coming back that early. Unknown: Yeah. I did that Erin Gibbons: a good idea at the end of the like. yeah. there's a lot of people that start starting before Labor Day this year. a lot. It's not like we were an outlier. yeah. David Fleishman: no. I think. I think what I've learned is that it's very important to have a consistent. if possible. have a consistent time you start every year because routines and prudent predictability matter. That's like. kind of my advice. Betsy Cullen: It's like building a habit. David Fleishman: kind of habit Exactly. Ronnie Kessler: A lot of districts start Wednesday and do Wednesday. Thursday. and then have Friday. right? And
Ronnie Kessler: late school at it that way. And I was like. and Betsy Cullen: Huge. Thank you to everybody who worked on these initiatives this year. I mean. it's really powerful to see then I was like. oh. yeah. it might. that might help. you're trying something. and to be able to measure it and see. wow. it actually happened. David Fleishman: It's really one of those things that you experiment with. And I think. you know. one of the challenges also. is some of the communication isn't always received initially. because it is such a shift. But in terms of looking at the research about the intense communication with families. I mean. that's really what the research says. So it's important to follow that research. Erin Mueller: And I had heard. I think that was the reason for my question. I had heard that the personalization of messaging and reaching out to families and and letting them know we miss your student. we want your student to come back. I think felt really good to some families. It makes people like as Caroline Han says. it makes the invisible visible. It reminds them that we care about you. We want you back in school without you. It's not the same without you. So I know from many people that that was really well received. Betsy Gavron: It's always hard to figure out how that's it's I really have to commend the principal. It was super time consuming. consuming. Kate Sambuco: I'm sure it feels like a very heavy lift. but it had such a significant Betsy Gavron: and people were really committed to it. It was a very dedicated group. Erin Gibbons: I have a question. Is there any split of Metco that we can pull out of this? And I'm asking because I really wonder if the like ability to get out here and if you miss your bus. Unknown: you're out of luck Erin Gibbons: you're not going to school that day. And I don't know if there's an answer to fix it. but I just is. do we have data on that? Betsy Gavron: I know anecdotally that that that is the case. yeah. for some Yeah. families. yes. yeah. Erin Gibbons: That was just. you know. and I don't because is it one bus for elementary. middle and high altogether. or it is two Betsy Gavron: there two busses at the middle school. In the high school. there's. there's two stops and two or two main hubs. They're different routes. but there's two different busses. the middle and high school for the elementaries. but they're all the same. like the middle school busses all one time. even if you're on a or No. Erin Mueller: are you saying could they race to another bus? Erin Gibbons: in the morning. morning like they can't get to another bus? Right? Unknown: Correct. Erin Gibbons: The only way we could fix that is potentially. if elementary could then get on a middle and a high. which we don't typically mix those age groups. Betsy Gavron: We've done a little. We've played with that a little bit on the going home end. for example. we had some kids that were staying for the what's the name of the drama program? I was just thinking. Unknown: Oh. Broadway that Betsy Gavron: was meeting on Wednesdays. and they were staying here really long days. And. you know. we met with the family. we talked through the pros and cons of it. And there's not a ton of kids that go home on that fairly late bus. And it worked out in this particular case. but not every family would feel comfortable with their their child going going home with. you know. juniors and seniors in high school Erin Gibbons: totally understand. I was just thinking that would be only one way that they could catch something like you missed it for elementary Betsy Gavron: you could not. Erin Gibbons: They're not close. They're not Kirsteen Patterson: based on kind of what collective location of right the resident. the students in that age group are and they differ between the elementary. middle and high school locations. Okay. Betsy Gavron: okay. so in terms of next steps. we we just calendared all the meetings for the year. I just sent out all those invites yesterday. people inboxes were full of invites from me. So we'll continue both the work with both teams. and we're also adding adding focus on on staff attendance. and obviously working through some strategies for any other questions. I Unknown: I know. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all data. I Christina Rodrigo: I can't wait to see next year's data as well. to just see it like continue to carry book vacations. you know. a long time in the future. right? Betsy Gavron: We only have 180 days for them. We have 185 other days to choose from. So that's always my hope. All right. the last thing is. David Fleishman: the last thing is our proposed we thought to have a calendar of meetings is very helpful to us. Help for you in terms of knowing what's ahead. So we'll talk a little bit about what we're thinking in terms of timing. I should also say that while we're calling up the budget calendar. there's some TBAs there. You know. for us. it was a little bit later last year. and later is better for us in terms of budget. because we have more accurate information. We know there are some town bylaws that compete. but the later we go is. the better we don't always know. Of course. things like health insurance until the end of January. state aid.
recommendation with the governor. you we get that. But of course. it's the legislature who makes the final call on that. So here I let me just open up my computer. and then we'll get it up. That's okay. I'll grab it.
and then we'll get there. It is save screen now. so tonight. you saw our agenda. We are going to have at our next meeting. my own goals and update on our facilities master plan. We have an excellent subcommittee for our Facilities Master Plan. who's been interviewing finalists for our master Facilities Master Plan firm over the last two days. Betsy has joined us. We have a really good team. and we're looking forward to talking more about that at our next meeting. We're also looking forward to talking about the Yonder implementation plan.
So at the meeting after that. we thought a shorter meeting to hear a little bit about parents square and our new ISS. We'll have a shorter meeting because we're doing some planning that night in Executive Session. So shorter meeting. we thought it'd be good the second meeting October to have a Spanish Immersion update. also our financial end of year report. That's that's an important document. and obviously Kirsten has just started. so it's a lot of work among other projects. but it's really important for you to know whether we finished the year with like $20 left or $600 you know what I mean? You know it was close. Erin Gibbons: If you finish it in black. I'll be impressed.
Plus. one is where we're at. David Fleishman: So then we will head to Boston on our first meeting in November. And we thought about having a student panel. which is a different. you know. we want to mix it up in terms of presentations for you. we expect we're going to sit down again and obviously have regular facility master plan updates. and we'll finalize that. But we thought there could be another one at that time. even inviting the firm we saw. Like in that night for an overview for you. we'll also have an MCAS update. And then we thought. as we work towards our goals in early December. that could be a nice time to hear from both our elementary principals. the first meeting. the secondary school principals. the second meeting. including. we put in parentheses cell phones. because that's certainly one of the district goals. And the goal here is make sure you hear about all our different goals. We're going to check. I don't know that we'll need four meetings in January. We might get into February. We've got to time that out. So those. those are all those are all kind of tentative. Those are just on the calendar. but we'll. we'll get a more up to date schedule. We thought in February a Tech Update. There's a lot of work in the technology area. both on the operational side and the instructional side. Here a little bit some of the work. the PD with AI. our portrait of a learner work. we have a meeting. actually a planning meeting in a couple of weeks. Be nice to get an update to you. Then I'm sure we'll do some kind of update beforehand. Deborah the middle school curriculum leaders. talk about the accountable. talk workand how that is going. We thought we would have after that. we'll do a double Ronnie. both on executive function and the work from Sarah Ward on the Gen Ed side. and then have a student services update after that. Actually. Ronnie. it's a trifecta for you. Actually. I don't know why. I don't know why we did this. There's a reason we did this. and I can't figure out because co teaching. We'll have some co teachers talk after. we can't we need some time. of course. to do that. That's why we did. yeah. maybe. yeah. that that's a lot. That's all right. We may flip one. I realized that co teaching as Ronnie. but we'll have some some teachers be involved in front of you to hear from some teaching pairs. and then a diversity. equity and belonging update. maybe Caroline with with some of her DEP lead teachers. At the end of May. we'll have to have a final decision. of course. one of our goals in terms of a literacy curriculum. There's a working all year. doing some work and some piloting. I didn't know. did Betsy Gavron: you mentioned the Prism grant last time. The Prism grant so we get some money to help support the literacy curriculum. can't remember if we
David Fleishman: Yeah. no. that's Erin Gibbons: I don't think we did. Erin Mueller: I don't think you did either David Fleishman: . just for the principal then. Yeah. we've been got in. That's good. Betsy Gavron: Yes. we got a significant grant for to support the piloting work and education around the different programs and the why the need for the different programs. as well as some of the partial funding for K to two reading curriculum for next year. So it's a like a multi $100.000 grant. So it's. it was great. Fantastic. Yes. David Fleishman: that is from our State Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. which is still giving grants. Our federal government is now allocating the money that was appropriated as well for the most part.
So which is kind of. what. how it's supposed to work. from a legal or you're all lawyers. you know. that's the way it's supposed to work. And then our Portrait of a Learner recommendation. we expect to finish that in early June. So some of the initiatives. like. for example. Portrait of a Learner. and our work around Master Facilities Plan. we expect to have multiple updates. We put those in as placeholders. Those may shift as the work. but we want to let you know thatyou can expect regular updates. Betsy Cullen: We probably need to add another one in the spring for the master facilities. for the actual readout of options. David Fleishman: exactly. So we'll David Fleishman: do some of that as well. We will definitely do that once. once we have the firm. will really sit down and Betsy Cullen: do that in like April map it out more. We expect to have the firm by the end of the month at the latest. Erin Gibbons: I'd love to get a Bridges curriculum update. Math Achievement discussion on there. Betsy Gavron: See. it's some of that when we do the MCAS data. but we can certainly what in particular would be of the most interest. Erin Gibbons: Well. this is what you're kind of iReady data or but is it your Betsy Gavron: we so we're this is first. this is the will be the third Erin Gibbons: third year right Betsy Gavron: implementation. and we're moving everybody from the second edition to the third edition. Erin Gibbons: Okay. so I think maybe just some reporting around that. how that's going. and then if you can tie any progress in. iReady data and or MCAS data to what we've been doing in Bridges. Betsy Gavron: Sure Erin Gibbons: anybody else have any thoughts on that? Betsy Cullen: I'd be curious if the middle school math teachers Betsy Gavron: we had a great visit. The middle school math are observing sort of qualitatively or anecdotally. teachers came down and observed bridges in action too. And then any shift in the sort of readiness of students the fifth grade teachers came and saw the sixth graders last matriculating. That's probably only in the last year. I don't year. So that would that would be wonderful. know that that will happen so quickly. but
David Fleishman: So we will weave that into a middle school. We'll figure out how to weave that in to the presentations when our people are here. Erin Mueller: And I also know you had to allocate a little bit more time and kind of. I guess. change a little bit how that was taught. to accommodate a little bit more science time and other topics that we were struggling to fit everything into the day. So just the slight modifications to that that you made. I think it would be nice to hear about absolutely how that's going. Thank you. Christina Rodrigo: Is there any like survey or anything about mental health that's coming out this year? I think like last year. we had Jason Verhoosky and we had not talk like Betsy Gavron: so this year is a. in November. they'll do the Metro West Behavioral Health and Adolescent Health Survey that will take place in November. We usually get the data for that around May. so maybe in June. we could do some sharing out of that data too. They. I know they do a big report out to the community in early fall of the fall. right. David Fleishman: Because you need time to analyze and come up. Erin Gibbons: Okay. it's a it's so much data. it's like a lot. Christina Rodrigo: Okay. yeah. It's an important topic. so I don't want it to. like. Absolutely. or if we're doing other things to like. sure. yeah. Erin Gibbons: yeah. Like a wellness update. Do we have that in here? Ronnie Kessler: No. there's been some great. like. crisis training too that. That's happened this year too. So we can. we can figure out a time to weave some Kate Sambuco: in our last meeting. you mentioned the anti discrimination protocol. David Fleishman: I was just gonna say that. Yeah. Kate Sambuco: Are we going to hear about that anytime soon?
David Fleishman: Yeah. we could do a nondisclosure Well. if you got a time to do a non discrimination protocol update. Betsy Cullen: I'd made a note about AI updates. and I see you mentioned the AU PD work in connection with Jen's February 4 tentative Tech Update. but there was also developing AI guidance for instruct. like instructional guidance. So can we make sure that'll be part of her. in terms of that goal. she will cover. like the tech goals. and that's the AI goal will be part of the tech goal recovery. for sure? Yeah. Sure. You know. we can just add this as we go. and we'll integrate this. We just thought it'd be helpful for you to have some kind of map. It's actually incredibly helpful for me. I won't speak for anybody else. but it's super helpful. because to see it laid out helps spark your brain. Of like. looking at the goals and then looking at this. what else might we want to David Fleishman: and it's helpful for our team members kind of be thinking about when they present. you know. get early notice as we think about ideas and how to share this in the most effective way and around. you know. measuring and progress. Erin Gibbons: how we plan. like. what meetings I want to skip.
Unknown: Start skipping some. Erin Mueller: We asked and very received. Thank you. This is wonderful. Erin Gibbons: It's great. Oh. the one comment I was going to make was. I think it would be great. We used to hear from each of the principals about wants for the budget. totally understand that we're not in the space of need. want. etc. but it may be nice for us to just hear from them when they present against their goals in December. if there are things that particularly really are important in the budget. or just just maybe touching on something. not the wants. right. like needs and hey. you know. this was in here this year. and it's really making a difference. orthings that maybe there are wants that are first time piloting type things that we could try and work with the Foundation on supporting because we know that things are going to be tight next year. So I think that's one thing that could be helpful to align with their goal presentations. other than that. I mean. this is great.
David Fleishman: and we'll get the budget. you know. timing down. I know it used to be here. like very early in December. So we want to push back as long as we can. and also have a thorough process. So that's. that's our goal. Betsy Cullen: I know that Susan use to do. like. a quarterly financial update. David Fleishman: We will have those. We're going to put those in. Those are. those will be placeholders. We've got to. got to do that. So you can expect. I mean. that is so important. as important part of your role in terms of financial oversight. And certainly Kirsteen is aware of how tracking expenses compared to the budget. is really. really important. We did not have. I will share. in terms of budget. we did not hire any positions. Sometimes early on. you know. I've had. where we have to hire positions. We've not budgeted. We've kept to our budget. So that's something we're monitoring. The other part. of course. we monitor is student services. Erin Gibbons: Oh. David. don't say it. Don't say that out loud. Just let it. let it. David Fleishman: It's just something else we monitor. That's all it's I just wanted to we're just moeunitoring. Erin Mueller: Keep monitoring. David Fleishman: Yes. we monitor. Monitor carefully.
Ronnie Kessler: Oh yeah. we got our in our van. Erin Gibbons: Oh. your bus. Erin Mueller: I saw it too. Ronnie Kessler: its registered. license plate. which we're Christina Rodrigo: congratulations. working on. and it's all set to go. David Fleishman: speaking of Student Services and grants. Kate Sambuco: we should take a ride Ronnie Kessler: Yeah. we had it marked number one. just in case we end up getting
Erin Gibbons: maybe we will. Yeah. Ronnie Kessler: they're like. Do you want a number? I'm like. sure. Erin Mueller: Otherwise. it's just really great. Unknown: ERG van. yeah. Erin Gibbons: Kirsteen. I was just thinking. and I'm not sure if there's a good way to suggest this to you. but in conjunction with the with the budget. in advance of that. think it might be really helpful to have a deep dive into expenses and tracking expenses over the past few years. where they fell. where we cut. I um. because people. I'm not sure that's a place we can really cut service we don't want to cut. But I think it would be really helpful to know. like. how lean we are against the expenses. how those are bucketed. Have we made big shifts in that or big cuts in the past couple years? It may be helpful for the community to understand our budget better and that. you know. we have. like. the data to back it up. And it's not just that we have some million dollar dollars sitting somewhere that we can just. you know. because that's kind of like the only piece where I don't. like Kirsteen Patterson: are you specifically asking about the non personnel? Erin Gibbons: yes. yes. yeah. And if you have ideas. like. on how you could kind of like. show it. or Betsy Cullen: you're thinking in like. categorical buckets. Unknown: yeah. like. and we use you take a little leeway to do that. to have it kind of presented. And Erin Gibbons: you don't necessarily have to. like. yeah. however you I just think you thinking about it. like. knowing numbers. knowing how you can kind of pull things data wise. I think some sort of graphic that not even just a graphic. but like some sort of way that it's easily. easily digestible to community members that don't necessarily sit at this table or work in the schools every day. how those things have been impacted with the budget and where we've sat for the for the past few years. and potentially next year. things like that. Kirsteen Patterson: And I do you mean. like. what was not bought last year that we had originally thought Erin Gibbons: potentially. or what we didn't spend on that we were planning to spend on. where we took like. for lack of a better term. robbed Peter to pay Paul. Those kinds of things. The other piece that we talked about. and I can't remember if it was when you started here. before you came. but I don't know that we ever saw it was where we ended up having
toreallocate funds away from proactive facilities. type of care and upkeep and maintenance. to things that had been deferred previously. like the boiler was an example.
That's a spot. you'll she Betsy knows what I'm I think you know what I'm talking about. because the piece that I'm trying to Unknown: so I want to just. yeah. Erin Gibbons: what I'm thinking about there is to show why upfront investment and spending on on the upkeep or new or purchase is important. Because if you don't. all you're doing. is like different by deferring. you're just ending up spending there's there's that that's a different. like bucket. actually. yeah. last couple days in our right. Kirsteen Patterson: and is that something that we are going to address with our master plan? Because that's kind of what. what the dialog is about. Doing nothing has a cost. exactly. and that's. that's. I think we need to also have that going into budget season for these people here. as well as the bigger community. before we even talk about going to build new buildings. David Fleishman: Oh. absolutely. that's probably part of the master plan. Kirsteen Patterson: but I don't know that I can quantify that. That would definitely be an expertise level that is above the just a budget line item per se. There's different components of that. Erin Gibbons: but we can look at historically capital planning. where things have been pushed out indefinitely. three years. two years. whatever it was. and then where did we have to pull it from early because it was pushed out and deferred against advice. David Fleishman: I mean. even looking at. I mean. you look at a maintenance budget and see. did we go over by how much and where did it come from? Take a look at that. That's we can take a look at that.
Erin Gibbons: And the other thing that I just wanted to put on the radar that we're gonna have to talk about. I believe. is bus parking. Unknown: It's already been three years.
Time flies. yes. Erin Gibbons: and. and I know that there's just Yeah. history. We don't have to talk about it right now. I'm just putting it on the radar. Unknown: No. I do have that on the radar. and I have already had conversations and that everything that was identified for mitigation that we accomplished. So I think what is the next step is just reaching out to the town manager in the aspect of requesting the renewal piece of it. Erin Gibbons: Okay. awesome.
Okay. sorry. I just kind of put you on the spot. but I wasn't expecting answers right now. I just was like thinking I had it. You did.
I'm just very nervous for the budget. So.
Unknown: okay.
it's really good news on the Prism grant. Yes. Kirsteen Patterson: the funding for curriculum itself can pay up to half of the cost of whatever the curriculum is in grades k1. and two. Erin Gibbons: awesome Kirsteen Patterson: and maybe k3 Unknown: either k2 or k3
awesome. three. Erin Mueller: So half of the half. right? It's great. Unknown: Twitter is good. and we did talk about putting that on capital. Betsy Gavron: I think that was a very successful Unknown: yes with math. It was it was Betsy Gavron: yes. So I would think that that might be the way to go. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. we should definitely keep that. Betsy Gavron: I was not there when it had. when that process played out. I wasn't at this table with that process played out. but I know it. it's worked really well. Yes. Kirsteen Patterson: because you can. we have a new structure. though. in the town with Wood capital. So Unknown: yeah. Kirsteen Patterson: that that may change. Unknown: Yeah. Just disclaimer. Kirsteen Patterson: Uh. things that might have been in that kind of pipeline might shift or change how. how they're prioritized or reallocating that capacity. Erin Gibbons: I think it benefits and behooves the town and the budget. though. because we can depreciate it as a capital item. and we can't depreciate it as an operating item. right?
Kirsteen Patterson: Well. yes. because you wouldn't. you wouldn't put something thathigh cost in in your operating budget. typically for a year. like one year. you would do that over the course. And I think that's why it ended up. Erin Gibbons: the math ended up there. and it was a really good answer. So if we can finagle that. it's probably the best way to try and do
Unknown: it
Erin Gibbons: before I go to 4.1 can I ask? Did this get left on. Diane? Because. for some reason I didn't. I don't remember saying that wasn't resolved at the last meeting. Y eah. okay. yep. okay.
Unknown: We talked about putting it on in October when we did the other thing. but maybe I'm misremembering.
This is. well. this is. Erin Gibbons: we did appoint Brian O'Herlihy yes to the CIPC. if I'm remembering those acronyms correctly. and the Select Board confirmed him so and I think he's going to be a really good appointment there. The one thing that we really need to find somebody for the seat is the audit committee. Betsy Cullen: So that's on my list. We thought we were going to meet as a full master plan advisory group in August. but then we've just been meeting as a smaller evaluation subcommittee as we reviewed the proposal submitted by the firm. So the whole group hasn't come back together. but I can. we can send an email to that group and see if there's anyone. that was that was a to do of mine from our August meeting is to ask that group if anyone be interested in serving it's the audit committee. I have really good information on the Audit Committee. It only meets almost five times a year. Unknown: full stop.
Erin Gibbons: the meetings include discussing annual comprehensive financial report prepared by the town's external auditor. as well as creating an annual report with recommendations for the board of selectmen. which should be the Select Board. That must be an old I have a link to more information. Should anyone find someone who would like to join this committee? It is a three year term. and I do have somebody that wants to go and chat with people five times a year in town. right?It's only 15 times over three years. Betsy Cullen: Come on. You want me to resend it. We had the blast that we had already sent out. Do we want to resend it? Erin Gibbons: Let's try and do some targeted outreach. Okay. I'd like everyone to come back to me at the end of the month and tell me that they've talked to three people. myself included. I will find three people. Unknown: Is there any particular background. like they need to be a CPA? No. no. Erin Gibbons: They need to be warm body. Unknown: Well. I'm kidding. Erin Gibbons: there's I can tell you. I mean that you don't need. like. specific expertise. Okay. so thank you. Brian O'Herlihy. 12 million times over. and I love that the CIPC has been created
5.1 based on revisions to Title Nine statute and requirements. Our title. nine. proposed revised policy is in our folder. Betsy. I welcome you. Gavron. to give any additional feedback that you care to share. Betsy Gavron: Yeah. when we were working on our handbooks. and we were sort of updating the language for handbooks that met with the new regulations. and when we were building out a new employee handbook group. it was apparent that our new protocols that to match the new regulations that are the school committee policy was just dated and had had not changed. So I reached out to our school council. and this is what. what this is. what's been vetted that matches with the new regs. Erin Gibbons: And so one of my questions was. our coordinator is Ronnie? Correct? Ronnie Kessler: Yes. Erin Gibbons: So what contact info should we have in the policy? Should it just be email and phone number and potentially address here? Yeah. that's fine. Okay. so Director of Student Services. Ronnie Kessler. Should I do the Wayland public schools? right? Yeah. I think what's the address here? Ronnie Kessler: 41 Cochituate Rd
Erin Gibbons: I was gonna say 38 Millbrook. I knew that was wrong. so that's the fire and safety. Unknown: Okay? And then your email is Ronnie. dot underscore. at work. I'm Town. Wayland.us.org. okay.
and do you have a direct link to doctor? 508- 358-3756.
okay.
Erin Gibbons: Um. So just to reiterate. this has already been reviewed by counsel. and I did overview. I didn't have any issues. I didn't have any questions. Does anyone around the table have any issues? Questions. anything? And in the event we do not. I would entertain a motion to approve the revised Title Nine policy and to put it out. Unknown: Sorry. just there's another contact information spot further down in the document for the superintendent that I think we need to complete as well. I don't have page numbers. Erin Gibbons: Oh. I see it. I didn't notice that. You know why? Because it wasn't yellow before. wait one second.
Unknown: Okay. go ahead. Erin Gibbons: Do you want me to put you as doctor. or do you just want to be David Fleischman? The latter would be great. Okay. and I Unknown: what? Yep. 41 Patricia Road. Wayland. 37633763. I. 763 508-358-3763. okay.
File at the top. and it is currently.
if you're talking to me for not kidding. Okay. I'm just doing this and you are David underscore Fleishman at Wayland. ps.org. correct. Okay. I
Wow. it's AC. dash
Erin Gibbons: and should it have the sexual harassment slash r.
Title Nine. or should it just be Title Nine? Genuine question? Kate Sambuco: currently we have it as slash Yeah. in your current version. Unknown: What were you gonna say? Yeah. I like it with both. I think it's supposed to right identify or I just didn't want to Yeah. Got it. Okay.
Okay. all. Um.
anybody else?
Erin Gibbons: No. okay. anybody want to make a motion? Are you asked for a motion? Unknown: I moved to approve and send out for comment. Revise Title Nine. policy. AC. dash. R. do we have a second? Erin Mueller: I'll second. Unknown: Okay. all in favor. aye. any opposed? None. Okay.
Can uh. Erin Gibbons: consent agenda.
Do we have any questions comments. or might Ellen be visiting? Unknown: I move to approve the Consent Agenda.
Betsy Cullen: I'll second. Unknown: Okay. all in favor. Aye. Any opposed
for old times sake? Are there any matters not reasonably anticipated by The chair? Nope. Noi. give me one. I'm Yes. I Erin Gibbons: I move to enter executive session for the purposes of reviewing and approving the executive session minutes with the intent to redact and release said minutes. as permitted by MGL Chapter 38 section 22 for July 16. 2025 the school committee will be joined by Diane Mirabella. recording secretary. The School Committee will adjourn in executive session and will not reconvene in open session. Do I have a second? Erin Mueller: I'll second. Unknown: Betsy. yes. Kate. yes. Christina. yes. Erin. yes. Erin. yes. Okay. So.
No. no. okay. all right. David. do you want to start on 3.1 David Fleishman: Yes. As you all know. we are underway for the 25-26 school year. even though Labor Day was just last week. it feels like we've been in school for a while. and I think that's because we started before Labor Day. and that was the change that Wayland has not done for a while. And so we had a really nice welcome back for our educators. I know several things before we started. It was wonderful here from our new president of our union. Danielle Barron. Erin. welcomed our students. with terrific music from our summer orchestra program. And we were underway.and it's going smoothly. I always say that the first couple of weeks of school are always as long as you do the summer. planning pretty smooth. And then we have new opportunities and challenges every day. One of the challenges of starting earlier. I will say. is that attendance data was was not attendance was not as high as it would be typically in the first two days of school. and that's just something to think about. Whether folks were so used to starting a Tuesday after Labor Day. as some districts have a standard start date versus perhaps a variable start date. but we did have some lower attendance across the board in the first couple of days of school. just something to be aware of and reflect upon since then. I would say one of the pluses. even though we started early. it's been very good school weather in schools without air conditioning. That's been a positive. And the hot weather. the worst the meteorologists are saving for the weekends. like last Saturday. which was really good. that was a it was a non school day. So that's been that's been smooth. We'll have our enrollment numbers. of course. after October 1. we have slightly over projection in kindergarten. a little other under in some areas over. you know. in one grade levels is a little higher. Third grade at Happy Hollow than we projected. But we're we're excited. and it's been positive. and later on. we'll talk about the goals for the year and presentations. We had a chance to visit a couple of co-taught classes I was in off to a positive start. and you'll hear more about that as we as we go. So I will stop there. because tonight. we're going to kind of begin with our summer programming. give you an update on that. and then we update and revise our goals based on our last meeting. We'll talk have a student attendance update from last year with some important data. and then. as I said earlier. we'll go through our meetings because we thought would be really good at this first meeting of the school year. Have a really good plan for the year. and of course. get your feedback. So with that. Betsy. you're kinda going to facilitate. and Ny is here as well. We have a team effort tonight. Betsy Gavron: Yes. and so while school was certainly out over the summer. there was lots going on here in the district. and we're going to share with you a little bit about what happened. So we'll talk about the extended school year program. Ronnie will will take us through that Pegasus and STEAM Explorers. Nye is here to talk a little bit about that. I'll talk a little bit about the Metco transitions program that happened and some of the adult learning that went on over the course of the summer. Ronnie. Ronnie Kessler: so this is just kind of an overview of what ESI is. ESI stands for Extended School Year. extended school year services. So ESI. why at every initial review. annual review. reevaluation. the team. the Special Education team. including parents. one of the questions on the IEP is. does this? Does the student require an extended school year in order to prevent regression? And that's an area that needs to be addressed every year on the IEP. and actually on the new IEP. there's a specific service delivery grid just for summer services. which is nice. So decisions based on are based on evidence of regression. So we look at after December. February and April breaks. we look at summer. so we have data from June. and then teachers are taking data now. so we can really see if there's been regression. That's our biggest data point. especially for kids who did attend. We like to measure that for kids who it was recommended. who did not attend. That's an important part. And then also. just for all kids. it's good to see that regression. So this is a really important data gathering time. In addition to regression. it's also about the rate of recoupment of those skills. So if we expect all kids to lose some amount of. you know. over the summer. have some summer slide. some regression. but if it's going to take a student double the amount of time to recoup those skills. then that's also evidence that they require summer ESI programming. And I kind of went into my I already said this ahead of myself. but it's that. you know. all students regress to some extent. but it's really about like. if you have that break in service. what is that timeframe to get back to where you were before that break? So this is just an overview of the programs that we offered this year. We had tutoring and related services. So that was at Loker and Boston. And actually. I should have also put it was virtual. We had try to really make it work. I know it's hard. So we tried to offer as many options as possible. Parents would reach out and ask for specific time. You know. can I have first thing in the morning or and I would do my best. It's a jigsaw puzzle. so it's hard. but I would do my best. but some. we were able to accommodate some through virtual which is helpful. Our language based programming was at Loker. We had a Learning Academy again at Loker. Milestones and Achieve and TCW were at Luke are and then we had our high school program. which was at the high school. but they also did a lot of off site work. actually volunteering at Pegasus as part of that. which was great. So they were kind of at Loker too.
So just some of our we had tutorials and itinerant therapy. so some kids just come for OT or PT or speech. We had 14 students we attend. students in our preschool. 10 students in Milestones and Achieve. 12 students in our LBC. 10 students in Learning Academy. four students in life skills. Then we partnered with Pegasus a bit more this year. so I'll talk a little bit about that. And then we also had tutoring in Boston. And in it last year we supported the Metco has a program in Boston that runs for four weeks. nine to three o'clock. and we support some students going to that and we send tutors to that program. So we had an SLP and a teacher who went to the Metco program and provided services. I just keep getting ahead of myself. Erin Gibbons: have we. have we always done that Ronnie? Ronnie Kessler: . so when I got here. it was kind of we were just kind of still getting off of covid and everything kind of was virtual. and I was trying to figure out. I worked closely with Latoya around the best way for us to provide services for students. for our Boston resident students. because I want students spending more time on a bus than they are in the program. But we also want to make sure. so I've actually also. I meet with West and Wellesley. Sudbury. Natick around like what they do for programming. And we talked. We didn't end up sharing this year. but last year we ended up sharing a little bit. But I reach out to our Boston resident. students. parents. kind of via survey to find out what you know. what time frame they're looking for. What do they want to virtual? Would they like to come to Luke? Or some they have the option to come to Luke. or would they like it in Boston? And then we kind of work what their needs are and what their availability is and what we can provide. So this is the second year of funding kids at the Metco program. and that's been successful. They're a really nice partner. And then some parents opted for virtual and then Latoya also coordinates some tutoring at I'm going to say it's it's not Hans Christian. it's like there's a Learning Center in Boston Hans Christensen. thank you. I always say. like Hans Christian Anderson Unknown: and the red shoes. yeah. Ronnie Kessler: also. we try to use whatever means possible to help. to give the support to students
our staffing. We had a BCBA. CODA is our certified occupational therapy assistant. And when we have a coda assistant. we also need an occupational therapist to oversee that person so that we contract out for our physical therapist with Easter Seals. Jerry. He's been doing it since before I was here. He's great. He comes back every summer. Kids love him. He loves our kids. So that's nice. We had two speech pathologists. seven program teachers. three tutors and 18 assistants.
Changes that we made for 2025. I did send communication about is why out four weeks earlier? So in the past. it had gone out beginning of April. I sent it out beginning of March. hoping that that was helpful. It was still. I get it. I signed my kids up for camp in like a couple weeks. I mean. it's crazy. so I get it. but I'm trying to send out as much communication as possible. early as possible. Nay. I worked really close. Nay. I worked really closely. This year we were able to do some coordination between Pegasus and our programming. which was really nice. So that was that was great. And then I did send out some surveys this year. like I said. for their Boston resident students. and then for our students who get tutoring. I sent out surveys like asking beforehand. like. what is your availability? Or what would you prefer for timing? Do you want virtual? Do you know. just to get a sense before I schedule everything and then nobody can make it. So I kind of tried to work the other way. So those things seem to help. Definitely. having it at Loker with Pegasus was great. We have a lot of kids who leave Pegasus. you know. just to come for a half hour for speech or. you know. tutoring. And then we have a lot of kids who leave at 11:30 and then go right to Pegasus. So that's great too. And that's all I have. Another successful year Betsy Gavron: transitioning. and speaking of a good partnership with Pegasus. we have Nay. right here. Nayagara Viera: Yeah. I actually liked to mention. not just Pegasus. and put. like. these STEAM Explorers as well. because was the first year we're trying with middle school. And we want. like to have a brand as well. like the middle school. because we saw that Pegasus is a very nice brand. But for the middle school. they're already cool and older enough needed to be a catch name. and we put it like pegs. as a team explorers. and the core values is the same. But I think the focus and even the training of the staff in the beginning was for to include all the students. that all of them can try if you have the right support. and I collaborate a lot with Ronnie and her team. to include all the students in our field trips and our offerings and and the goal for Pegasus and Steam explorers is still like for them to engage and help them to thrive and have problem solving. resilience and teamwork. And we are proud that we extended offering to preschool now to grade 12. And I will talk a little bit more. What was those items that we often had received some feedback throughout the year. we change on our summer program
Pegasus by the numbers. we had 134 kids from preschool to fifth grade. We had 19 middle schoolers. six high schoolers doing the CIT program. We still run as two. three week sections. and with collaboration with ESI we couldn't lower our ratio to five to one. because we appointed also some staff when we need. like. a one on one. or we need some teacher assistant. we share the staff. and we will be able to across all the groups have the support that kids needed on the group they were on the grade. if you can pass. please. And what was new this year. we extend our enrollment for until almost the end of May. and parents. of course. They reach out later. and we have availability. We add them to our program. We had 29 days. was very quickly for us to do the training and set up. We basically have a whole school and low care because we have a huge trailer that we need to set up everything for us to be successful in our program. but we were able to do 29 days this year. We continue to offer the flex scheduling that is very helpful for the kids. Also that do we ask why we have into one. into three. 3:30. now this year. we extend. like. 30 minutes make a little bit difference on the selection in the afternoon as well. and also not to hit traffic. That was very good. We saw even for the parents come in at 3:30 we have a lot of parents coming 3:30 before we have. like. still at three was hard for them to come from the pool and have the time to decompress and prep to leave. and that was a good extending hour. And we'll continue. We extend the range for the Middle school. as I mentioned. and we are calling STEAM explorers and another piece as well. we start the enrollment in January. but we extended to May. and we inform the parents all what we would be offered this year ahead of time. because for them to know what is the field trips and what is the events for if they planning vacation For the kids not to lose any of the offering. And I also collaborate with Ronnie for the ESI students. the service for them not to meet to miss. like the musician or miss something that's exciting happening as well. That was very good. Collaboration with our inclusion specialist that we had to that was Renee. called a little. helped a lot. and they are amazing. if you can pass the CIT program. What was kind of new this year? We collaborated. I did an interview with all of them. and what was the goal for them to do? And I was so exciting to know that even if they don't want teaching. they still want communication. leadership. And with that. I could build the CITs throughout the summer where they could give back to the kids in a way. they are leading some of the activities and some of the events. and they could collaborate as a team. And you couldn't see like senior collaborating with like. almost a freshman. because it's 14 to seniors. and this was a good collaboration for them. And also we discussed with Alison if they could get community service hours. and the hours that they worked. They were able to do the community service hours. and I couldn't sign the form for them. And they participate in all our training. staff training as well. and their online training that they were kept to lead the some of the activities. Here are some pictures just to show what happened. And was very funny. And took. like a while for me to select what is the best pictures. because we had so many good pictures and we did so many things. And if you can. and I just go very quickly in the highlight of the activities every day. we had a specialty. this way. like all the kids couldn't go through all the specialties that we had. We had arts and crafts. science.
theater kind of movement. Drama. Sports. in a way that we select a staff that love the area and want to learn and tied to the team of the week. This way we couldn't go into work if they're learning for dinosaur and they can do different ways of the learning and they in the whole setup of the whole week was about the team that we had select before and in the afternoons this year also was new was the STEAM creating lab. The parents could choose if the kids went to go to the pool or stay to the creation lab. And in there we have. like. every week. Shark Tank edition with right brain curriculum. I think adding them should add it. We have. like a store. and the kids got like fake Texas dollars. and it was the sensations. because they collected the dollars throughout the week. being like a good camper and also participating in the activities and the Shark Tank. They created their own project and pitch their own inventions and other all the things like they. they staff was very creative. And it was amazing how creative they got. And a point that once. like. this staff was like. Oh. you're going not to believe I kind of gave. like the kids. like. $100 should not and I was like. that's fine. They and they were saving. They were learning how to save the money to buy the toys. That was. like. more expensive. And then we needed to. of course. put inflation in our store. to be like. Oh. my God. these kids. they'll work for the money. But this part was very good. And we had. like. also. like. some nice community partners coming if you can pass. We had the fire department and the police department coming. It was amazing. They came with all the cars and kids scooter on the Professional Edition week learned about our field trips. We did so many. nice few trips. We went to Harvard Museum. we went to Anette medical organic farm. and the kids could learn how to be a farmer and do some chores and pet some chickens. it was nice. could you pass please? And they enhance topics. We kind of tried to separate and three main goals for them. for even for the teachers to develop the curriculum for this summer was like a team focused activities where we had. like. hands on projects. and they couldn't do problem solving and teamwork. And want to highlight was the day that the CIT labs. being scientists of the day. they all dressed up as a scientist with lab coat and glasses. Was so much fun. and they were running science experiment. I'm sorry. I'm have a science background. I'm crazy about it. and we developed the CIT like the science experience that the kids could do. And even a mini microscope. we had it as well. Was was nice and arts and crafts as well. We have karaoke. We have a photo booth that they could like do. like infusion of the creativity as well. and dress up and work as a team. And every week was they how it was very crazy in the beginning. because everybody wanted to know what it was like. They the inflatables of the week and the animals in the dinosaur was the sensational. because they have like those for them to take pictures and learn. And always was infused these animals or the team throughout the activities in the week too. And of course. our indoor. outdoor work activities. we have a carnival week. We do like scavenger hunt. and we infuse the math literacy on the Pegasus dollars and they couldn't also learn math and save and do. like. some real financing in banking. even deposit the money with the teacher and redraw after the next week. Was very interesting. This part. Yeah. that was everything. Betsy Gavron: Good Time was half by all of Pegasus. David Fleishman: I just want to say one of the long time Pegasus staff members stopped both of us a matter of fact. just to say what a terrific job Nay did in terms of her innovative programming and her leadership. So I want to publicly recognize you and thank you. You're also modest when you say you have a science background in addition to being an excellent program director. Nye is a dentist. Erin Gibbons: That's what I thought when she said David Fleishman: she really you could introduce a lot into a summer program. So yes. she does it all during the summer. So thank you. Nye. for doing such a great job. Thank you. Christina Rodrigo: Thank you. I heard some feedback about the middle school program. how there was a student there. whose is very hard to please. and loved it. Really really liked it.So that's saying a lot. Nayagara Viera: .Yeah. it was. was nice. We were trying. like to. the hardest part was to bring them back to elementary school. how we're going to do that. and we put them in the second floor. they have. like. a special t shirt. and what we were trying like to make them feel welcome. even though was like instilling in middle school. But what was successful. and we couldn't also expand for some of the students that Ronnie needed to place on ESI. and they weren't able now to continue in Pegasus. because now we have a middle school program. Betsy Gavron: Thank you Nay. So the Metco program also offered a couple different programs this year. the middle school Transitions Program and the Summer Enrichment Program. So the goals for the summer transitions the transitions program was to help middle schools begin to develop those student skills. It was held right at the middle school. They got to get a feel for the building. I was in one day. and you know. there were already seemed very comfortable. sort of moving through the hallways and getting getting their way around the building. Also. that helps them get ready to come back to school and to come back with confidence. One of the beautiful pieces about it. is really to build that cohort from the three different elementary schools. the kids coming together. and make them. you know. a little bit less anxious about that transition to middle school. Which is which. as you know. as many of you know. is a big is a big transition. So the focus of the program. there was some academic pieces. They there was a some science work. math. work. music. Bernadette had was in with the with drumming. They did a lot of drumming there. Jen Judkins came by and did tech talks with the kids and taught them some got them familiar with some of the platforms that they would be using once they were at the middle school. And they also built their student skills. I know the rocket. Rocket work was a big hit while they were there. Additionally. we continued with the Building Community through the circle practices. And they would do daily circle practices talking about some you know. key topics to help them be successful when they're in the middle school. that notion of being an upstander. of having integrity. of when you give your word to somebody in you know. what does that mean? And really think about that core. core values in a community. So that was an exciting. exciting component. You can see the kids all with their their T shirts on when they were getting ready. ready for their field trips as well. There's also a summer enrichment program that happened in Boston again. also to help summer aggression and prepare some of our youngest students. the incoming K students. for the full day K helping increase their confidence and additionally provide some child care options for families during the summer. also to have them less anxious about making that transition. you know. all the way to out there. to elementary school. So they the Metco summer school that took place in Boston. really offered an academic based set of learning experiences for folks. also including math. science. reading. writing. research skills. social studies. probably fewer research skills than the kindergarten kids. but certainly doing that. and there were enrichment classes and field trips as well. So there were 12 kids who were served by this program this summer. Betsy Cullen: Is that in K through five. Betsy. that's k to five. Yes.
Betsy Gavron: in addition to the kids these the adult learning that goes on the summer is fairly comprehensive as well. So David mentioned. I think last. last time we were together about our administrative retreat. you can see some photos of us Learning in Action. What you see there is. we had just gone through some scarf threat. teaching and working with and there is a simulation going on right there. In that right hand picture. there's a group of folks who are acting as a faculty. and you can't see Brian Jones. sort of leading a meeting in there. and the folks in the audience here are identifying what. what of the different SCARF threats are they seeing coming through? So which stands for Just different ways people can be activated. around. around things. when. when. particularly when change is happening. What? What gets triggered for folks? So that was a very active and engaging. engaging time that we had in terms of adult learning. there were also. as we mentioned. more restorative justice training that happened this summer. Last year we history in the fifth grade. They've been piloting it that trained two groups in in tier one training. and this year we trained another tier one training set and a tier two two set. so a little bit more advanced for problem solving. circles. those kind of pieces. So a number of us engaged in that. Caroline ran a culturally responsive teaching in the brain. You may recall that all staff in their first three years are required to do some culturally proficiency work with us. and one of the options is through the course that Caroline teaches. I just found out some offerings today through ideas. We have a membership of ideas that were is another opportunity for folks to learn. 44 folks engaged in co teaching training and work together. All of the partnerships spent two days together doing some of that work. And there's also a course offered by Bethann Monahan and Jake Montway at the middle school about exploring the possibilities of planning with AI. And we get some great feedback about folks who had gone. gone there. alright. And as always. there's summer work that happens that is funded through our operating budget.
last year in a couple of classrooms. and now the whole fifth grade will be be using that new curriculum. The there's some more foundation. scope and sequence work. really doing some alignment of the instruction. Assess. an assessment. The Sexual Abuse Awareness curriculum was updated by a team this summer at the middle school level. there was some writing and math skills curriculum work with our special educators who are focusing on more skill based classes there. There was work with the writing center. You may recall that we were shifting some of the people who would be in the Writing Center were more content areas teachers. So there was some real training there and really thinking through what that might look like and work. Quite a bit of Spanish Immersion curriculum development happened this this summer as well. both in revising in sixth grade and seventh grade work. So the partner teachers got together and did a lot of that work. Some some highlights. At the high school. we had a ninth grade ELA team book feast. where there's a number of titles read by a bunch of teachers. and they made some plans for adopting some new titles in in some small group work. and some may. may become whole class work. There. there's some updating the high school statistics. data sets and problems to really pull some relevant data that would be engaging for kids. There's some really interesting data that they pulled the unified wellness work that we talked about earlier in the spring. Much of that was time was dedicated to planning that new strand that we have. And then there's always some nice work across districts. So K through 12 work. again. on the wellness curriculum development. Scott talked about. right at the I think. our last meeting. our second to last meeting. about how some over the summer. they continue that work with developing curriculum and alignment. And same with the El work. the scope and sequence is really looking at what that the work looks like at the different WIDA levels. which just means that. you know. some kids come in with very little English. until they're almost proficient. So what does that look like across the levels? So that's just a few of the highlights. The the image that you see there was. was actually from some summer work that had to do with Sarah Ward's book series. They had digested them all and created some lessons that are going to be used across. across the grades there. So some of the clock knowledge is really important skills. So that is a summary of some of the things that happened here this summer. David Fleishman: Excellent. Thank you. Now we're going to shift from the summer to the school year. so at our last meeting on August 18. we talked about goals. and that's excellent feedback. So we adjusted some measurements in the goals. We also added. I know Erin. you had talked about facilities in particular a goal. and we worked with kirsteen. you know. as a really strong background on operations. we have a new ticketing system and operations that will monitor carefully and monitor consistency. So that is an additional strategic action in our operations section. along with. you know. all the refinements you suggested. mostly around measuring some around academic achievement in particular.
Unknown: we don't have that's we we don't set a goal. Erin Mueller: We have them from last meeting. but. Erin Gibbons: yeah. we don't know. Erin Mueller: We don't have the new ones. Betsy Gavron: Okay. okay. I'll pull them up. Betsy Cullen: No. I think what we had last time was a PDF. So it won't be the last Betsy Gavron: I thought it was a live talk. so I thought it was already updated for you. My apologies. David Fleishman: Okay. all right. we will pull it up. Christina Rodrigo: While you're pulling it up. I just want to go back like 10 seconds and just acknowledge all the work that ESI did. it was an awesome summer. My family. you know. loved it. It was for. Really helpful for my children. So thank you to you guys and all the staff that worked through the summer. Ronnie Kessler: Yeah. it really was. once the first couple days are always like running around. But it was. it was made a lot of returning staff. which was nice. and a lot of the programming was pretty seamless. so thanks. David Fleishman: we will My apologies.
Unknown: Oh. good. I'm glad my No. Betsy do you have it. right? David Fleishman: I can try Betsy Gavron: I haven't it just umm.
Betsy Gavron: to. yeah. I did. maybe just carry over.
Betsy Gavron: I did could we make copies for people. real Erin Mueller: No.
quick. what would be Erin Gibbons: if you just do Betsy Gavron: have it. I have it here. Unknown: I mean. I mean. Erin's gonna be nice David Fleishman: We want to show you one particular. you know. the one I mentioned. Erin Gibbons: can you share it with the folder. and then I can pull it up. and you can pull it up. Betsy Gavron: Diane. you have the document. Can you pop it in the folder? I just don't know how to do you do it on that computer. Erin Gibbons: Okay. let's if you share it with me. I can put in the folder. perfect. David Fleishman: Okay. Erin Gibbons: and that way. Betsy Gavron: The computer is just not very happy right now. Maybe. it's just spinning. spinning. spinning. David Fleishman: I can I can share it. You want to share exactly? Erin Gibbons: Yeah. that would be great. Yeah. if they're the revised ones. yes. Betsy Gavron: it's just stuck. Unknown: I do that. Dave. I'm going to just do a quick restart of my computer. David Fleishman: Here's mine. All right. Erin. I'm going to Erin Gibbons: okay. and then I can just put in the folder. if just share with you. David Fleishman: All right. okay. you should have it that's easier. Betsy Gavron: sorry. Sharing is unavailable at this time. Please try later. David Fleishman: You should have Unknown: my favorite message.
Erin Gibbons: Are you gonna pull it up on the screen? Betsy. no. Erin Gibbons: I got it I can. Unknown: I
you can't. right. gav: As soon as this restarts. it's okay. Erin Gibbons: No worries. Okay. Unknown: And For some reason i i movement Tom work From my right to my left. Are you? Erin Gibbons: I'm sending it to them. Let me put it in the folder. David Fleishman: Do you want me to share with everybody individually? Erin Gibbons: I just did it. Okay. All good. Unknown: So the. in addition to refining. as I mentioned. the it educational goals. we added an operational piece around development. strengthening the partnership to do town and school facilities teams. I. I see develop a plan to approve existing buildings to provide sustainable and up to date learning environment. just the last piece under additional rules on the first page. Erin Gibbons: Got it I got it is that the only update from the one that we reviewed at our last meeting. David Fleishman: We have updates. I'll give you an example of other updates. The other updates are around. Let me go to the Town. There was nothing more in community. nothing on students services. There was an additional you had asked about the Middle School.
One thing we had was about executive functioning. was establishing baseline skills relative to developmental expectations and establishing targets for improvement. We've talked about how to measure some of the work around executive functioning. Actually talked about that in opening day in terms of as a critical priority. and so that was one is really getting some baseline skills. because this is kind of year one of an initiative we also updated. Let me go down you had questions about the middle school and accountable talk. which.
Erin Gibbons: yeah. kind of fleshing that out and giving it sort of like a rename or right.not rename. but you know what I mean? David Fleishman: Yep. that is right. Unknown: Last bullet three. I'm on page three. Yeah. that's on page three. Let me find it
right. I want Erin Gibbons: Oh. but I don't see it as Erin Mueller: I just used versioning history. right? Erin Gibbons: Which one did where? So.
David Fleishman: yeah. okay. we double check on that one. Hang on a second. Let me go to that one for one second. Unknown: We mean it one double check of run for the Star. Check
I picked
Erin Mueller: I just don't restore it. I
Erin Gibbons: Can I ask a question so Kirstine specific to the additional new goal. the collaborate or piece to the goal. operational goal. collaborate with town facilities to have a cohesive line of communication with regard to custodial expectations and results. and then utilize a work order system that prioritizes urgent requests.
I think. will that. So I think one piece that confuses me about this is that the custodians have. like a dual report structure. right between like you and Michael Faia. right? Like. Kirsteen Patterson: not really. Erin Gibbons: No. have you clarified that Kirsteen Patterson: Yes Erin Gibbons: So maybe that's fixing the problem. Okay? And so the system will be utilized by school personnel only to input a ticket. Is that the idea. Kirsteen Patterson: yes. Erin Gibbons: okay. Kirsteen Patterson: And it's really specific to Building Principles. Erin Gibbons: Okay Kirsteen Patterson: Assistant Principals and I have capability oversight for any building so I can. I can do a ticket on behalf of. Erin Gibbons: okay. Kirsteen Patterson: and have all of them attached to it so that they can see that it's been entered. and any status updates that we get as things are being addressed. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Kirsteen Patterson: And I will track all of them. And it also has a delineation that we can identify the ranking of urgent at a later time. you know. And so it really gives you some drill down data to look at what types of work orders. what types of things are being entered in. and to be able to have some accountability with facilities team as well. and to be able to show what has been done Erin Gibbons: Okay Kirsteen Patterson: versus also still. what still needs to be done. So I think that's a piece that we really want to be able to communicate and show that. yes. there's. there's a lot of things that still need to happen and take place. and there is a lot of efforts being made. And look at everything that has already been accomplished and checked off of that list from the work orders that have come through. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Kirsteen Patterson: so we're really trying to establish a good communication pipe so that we're not just tagging a custodian in the moment. that we really document something and that it is. that is then sent to Mike Faia. so he he really is going to be the person that communicates with custodial team and is able to manage and mobilize who what. building what needs to be done. and really kind of orchestrate that so that things are done quickly. promptly and based on what true emergency requests are versus just my blinds are broken. and I really would like that fixed right now. but there's a pipe leaking in another building. so it gives that ability to really mobilize the fleet that we have and to prioritize our resources in that capacity. Erin Gibbons: Okay? And so when I read this. I look at it as like. things that you may not have been expecting would be put through that. like work order. ticket system. like a roofie leak. A roofie leak. a leaky roof. or a leaking pipe. versus. also. it sounds like. or it reads to me like. coupled with that. you're looking to kind of have. like a standard of care for each building. of regular things that should be happening. and then maybe potentially. like. say. getting water turned on for a garden at a school that maybe that's like on the regular schedule of like between. you know. mid March and end of April. like you're. you're turning the water on at all the schools. or whatever it is like. that's just an easy example for me to pull it up. Kirsteen Patterson: And so it's not just like a standard of care. but standard of communication. because we want our I want our small custodial maintenance team to be able to do what they have already and not be addressed by everybody walking through the hallway and sees them on their path to the next location or the next job that they've already got identified. So we want to really try to mobilize the communication. the style. how it's recorded and reported. so that we have that ability to look back and say. Well. gee. we have all these open tickets at the middle school. Why aren't any of these being addressed? And the answer is. because he's getting all these sticky notes from everybody. giving him 12.000 other things. So we want to eliminate the sticky note. and we want everything to be addressed and again. prioritizing through the building principles. As to. is this really rising to the work order. ticket necessity. or is this something that okay? You know. we'll have a conversation down the road. but we really want to make this a tightened up process so that we have better accountability. So we should just have them wear shirts that have. like a QR code on the front and back that people can just scan. direct you to here. This is my ticket. Yes. okay. that's a that's great. Betsy Cullen: Maybe hats. Kate Sambuco: The shirt will say don't. don't stop me. Erin Gibbons: Please don't stop me. Christina Rodrigo: Submit a ticket to my next job. Erin Mueller: I want one of those. Erin Gibbons: Don't talk to me about it. Now. scan the QR code. Gotta have a ticket. Unknown: Start saying that work. Christina Rodrigo: Cute. Erin Gibbons: Okay. so. and I remember there being and. sorry. I don't mean to take this over. I remember there being question. Questions about implementing like benchmarks to show progress. completion. and so were those things. David Fleishman: for example. we like if you look at if you look at Sarah Ward and executive function. if we go to that one. that's the up there. you'll first place. yeah. the first place you see. you'll see there. establish baseline skills relative to developmental expectations. establish target goals for improvement. That's kind of the benchmark baseline skills right there. That's what we talked about. You know. specifically. executive function was one. Betsy Gavron: And I know that the executive function work they did this year was to pull together a whole bunch of resources so they have the age. at each age span what kids should be able to do. So we want to compare what kids are actually doing to that. and then. based on the deficits we saw are to be focusing lessons in services. Erin Gibbons: And that was something we talked about with you. right. Ronnie. about the group that you work with to like what kids really should be doing. Betsy Gavron: And they did that work this summer. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. it was okay. So I remember talking about. David Fleishman: I mentioned that even in my note about executive functioning with one of the focus is some of the some of the summer work. yeah. y Betsy Cullen: eah. maybe something our families would welcome seeing. if it's digestible totally parents have would benefit maybe from a little understanding. Erin Gibbons: off expectations. I'm sure I have off expectations. Ronnie Kessler: When I talked to. met with SEPAC. mean. I know it's bigger than a special ed issue. but we did talk about maybe devoting a meeting to that. So then maybe we can coordinate with PTO and open it up to. you know. beyond just the SEPAC meeting. but just to kind of present. like. here's all of the information and then just some tips and tools. Erin Gibbons: yeah. Like an I think tips and tools David Fleishman: teachers are learning this is what students are going to be exposed to in school based on our teachers are learning as a result here. we can talk about how to do that. That would be nice follow up. Erin Gibbons: yeah. because it's also not just the tips and tools. but understanding. like right sizing your expectations of your kid. like my nine year old shouldn't be doing her own Betsy Gavron: okay. got it right? laundry. Erin Mueller: But she can. Unknown: but it's a nice. you know. yeah. Christina Rodrigo: We could make it more inclusive and kind of cross pollination into the SEPAC. which. you know. only SEPAC people go to SEPAC. right. yeah. right. We were going to open draw a bigger circle. right? David Fleishman: And general ed. Ronnie Kessler: right. yeah. And K through 12. Erin Gibbons: totally. right. totally. Christina Rodrigo: all grades and Betsy Cullen: or K through retirement. who knows?
Ronnie Kessler: yeah. So I did. We did talk about that at our meeting. so get a date on the books for that and David Fleishman: talk to principals about how to kind of make this a topic. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. it's like that crossover of and I'm probably beating a dead horse. but you know the language that's used in the schools and and being able to to understand it at home. potentially mirrored at home. reuse it at home. reinforce at home. It's that same type of idea. you know. if. if everyone's kind of living the same expectations and knowing Erin Gibbons: Limit. exactly that's what I mean Betsy Cullen: some of RCL. right? Betsy Cullen: like language. emotions. Erin Gibbons: yeah 100% Betsy Cullen: . mindfulness. you know. Erin Gibbons: red zone. I live in the red zone. Sorry. David Fleishman: not just football. but you're the red zone. Betsy Cullen: No other meeting in Wayland public school. Unknown: Yeah. you know. yeah. no i. I agree. yeah. Erin Gibbons: And fro some of it's also like being able to know when you should be pushing your kid on an expectation of something that they should be doing right. like. if it's even just taking more agency for themselves and advocating for themselves. like what level that sort of falls at. that's all really helpful. David Fleishman: You know. as we think about our focus for community engagement. this year. you know. later on. a three portrait of a learner. and we're going to do something later on about our master facilities plan. But I think we can weave this in as a third piece on the executive function around. like an instructional goal. around community engagement. So we will talk about how to do that at each level. because. obviously it's different developmentally. but I think people are really interested in that. Christina Rodrigo: It's also nice to have meetings about stuff that's not like a problem to be solved. right? It's just like pro-act here to like. learn stuff. These are proactive. Erin Mueller: embracing. embracing. Ronnie Kessler: It's really strategies Erin Mueller: right Christina Rodrigo: and that go beyond school. Betsy Cullen: Life skills Unknown: life. yeah. Erin Mueller: Is there a great book on this? Could you do a community talk on this? Unknown: are. yeah. there are some. David Fleishman: There are some. certainly some good ones we can. Ronnie Kessler: or at least have. we could have them available. like Betsy Cullen: I heard it. the committee asked for homework. David Fleishman: Don't want to give too much reading. but we Erin Gibbons: I didn't ask for homework. Ronnie Kessler: Just a recommendation.
Erin Gibbons: Just give me the FAQ sheet. please.at each of my child's age grade level. No. like they sent me home with their physicals .from seven to eight. your child. she should be doing this. right? Is she using the pincer grasp? She got it.
Erin Mueller: I know that wasn't really that they were really little. That was extremely helpful. Erin Gibbons: right Erin Mueller: We have a lot of these talks in our house now. What is age appropriate? Erin Gibbons: This? Anyone who knows Brynn will really get a kick out of this. She was two. she. like. didn't say a word. And I brought early intervention. And I was like. Yeah. something's wrong because Taylor. like. said full sentences at like. you know. nine months or something. not seriously. but. and so I brought them in. and they're like. so once this kid starts. you're gonna want her to stop. because she's getting all of her needs met. and because she's. she's communicating with you. It's just not verbally. like in the words or whatever. And they were right. She started. and now I can't get her to stop. But that was like. my expectation was only on my first kid. so on my second. I was like. she's so behind. What's going on? They were like. no. no. yes. she's good. Kate Sambuco: Older siblings talk for them Erin Gibbons: . yeah. yeah. And there's that piece. and so. yeah. you know. okay.
some of these evidence data under the outcomes and measurements where you have surveys. will you share the educator survey data? I'm not asking for. like. it can be blind. but just. will you share that with us. even if it's not necessarily at the table? You know? David Fleishman: Yeah. no. We could. to survey even you saw even this summer. I know. I know we forwarded you. like our surveys from our summer retreat. Yeah. yeah. We do them regularly. It's really helpful to us to figure out how we can adjust and improve and and do that. absolutely.
Erin Mueller: And I guess my question in general. is part of the work of the year. determining and developing how you'll demonstrate and how you'll show the analytics and the data. that's that's part of what we're doing. like you're setting out the goal to do that. and then over the course of the year. you determine how. okay. David Fleishman: some of it's new as kind of baseline data. or. in the case of. you know. things like reading or some of the math. that's kind of ongoing assessments in the range. And some is taking a look at kind of assessing as we have. like co-teaching. If you go to the co-teaching goal for a second. For example.
there is so. you know. Erin. this is one where it's like multiple it's looking at kind of some of the achievement data right over time. but it's also some surveys from different stakeholders to get a sense of how people perceive it's going. So that's like on a multiple level.
Erin Gibbons: in my little lawyer hat that I wear. not at this table. I uh. your language makes me a little bit nervous
-with indicates satisfaction. I guess. like overall satisfaction. because some families may not love co teaching. but the results may reflect.
yeah. you know what I mean? David Fleishman: Yes. Erin Gibbons: I got you. David Fleishman: That is true. I. Thank you for that.
Erin Gibbons: and I may change it to co-teaching models versus partnerships. Co- teaching model. David Fleishman: yeah. Betsy Cullen: or classroom or something. I Erin Gibbons: right? Because sometimes. like. maybe it's not the right fit for these teachers. but the teachers in general are like. Yes. this is good. We're going to do some swapping or something like that. Anyway.
Are there any other specific things that people remember that they wanted to look at or talk about.
Erin Mueller: No. I looked at the language already of some of the changes that we asked for. and Unknown: it looks like Erin Mueller: it felt like it was covered. Unknown: Yeah.
cullen: the measurement and goals are more concrete in areas where we talked about it last time. Thank you for that David Fleishman: feedback. and we'll certainly talk about them. Actually. this leads nicely into our final topic. after student attendance. which is how we report out to you on this over the course of the year.So can we do student attendance and then get to or do you want to in terms of our next two topics? Erin Gibbons: I was going to ask if you wanted us to vote to approve. David Fleishman: That would be great perfect Yes. before we do that. Thank you.
Erin Gibbons: Does anybody want to make a motion?
We rephrase that. the chair would entertain a motion.
Erin Mueller: I will make a motion to approve the 2025. 2026. district goals as presented. Erin Gibbons: Okay. Do we have a second? Unknown: Second. Erin Gibbons: All in favor? Aye. Any opposed. I said. Okay. great. Thank you forreally working hard on these. but also like acknowledging our feedback and working on David Fleishman: appreciate we appreciate the feedback. Now we're going to shift to student attendance Unknown: from over here. David Fleishman: looking at our data from last year. you'll remember that DESE's motto at the start of last year was -Your presence is power. I definitely Betsy Gavron: I definitely was. and we had a particular challenge with our with our data last year. So So tonight. we'll be talking about sort of. what was the context of the goal. and why did we set it? What was that district goal? What if the efforts been since then and then. what is the date and results of our of our work last year. So why are we focusing on attendance. the so as you may recall. we were seeing spikes in anxiety and mental health leading up to the pandemic. and then certainly exacerbated by the pandemic itself. And coming out of the pandemic. we were seeing a huge increase in family travel during the school year. Part of that was because I believe. you know. people couldn't see their family for so long. there was just a big increase in folks who hadn't seen family from abroad. And so folks were taking advantage of every opportunity they could. I think people also. you know. got used to living in some other places for times. So so there's a real kind of shift back to and so we had a significant increase in our chronic absenteeism. which is defined as when you're absent for 10% or more of the school year. So that's 18 or more days. And we saw this particularly with particular subgroups. If you. some of you are here. when we developed our Student Opportunity Act plan. which really looked at the combination between student attendance and achievement. particularly for those subgroups who were doing significantly. not as well as their as their peers. So here is a look at that grim data. From there. we had 17.9% of all students in our entire district were were chronically absent. which is a lot of kids really out a lot of the school year. And you can see that was almost double. or exactly double. for our Black and African American students. Our English learners. who are not part of our SOA target group when we created the SOA plan. because their achievement was actually some of the highest in the state. So despite. despite their their lower attendance. they were still performing strong. but we have kept a close. closer eye on their attendance because of this data. our low income students were significantly more than double our other population. and our students with disabilities were more than 10% higher than the population overall. We get zero out of four points in our one for district accountability and at all the schools when we're kind of looking at our overall. how we're how we're looked at across this row. So so that 23-24 data in particular was completely problematic. Christina Rodrigo: That's the difference between high needs and students with disabilities. Betsy Gavron: So it's. it's. it's actually often a combination of of subgroups. so you have multiple. multiple areas. So it's. it can be. you know. students with disabilities that are also. that also may be low income. So it's typically. your kids in high needs are a cross section of multiple. Christina Rodrigo: okay Betsy Gavron: areas. So it's not those plus those. it's those are encompassed by. if that makes sense. Betsy Cullen: So there's overlap in that inter Betsy Gavron: intersectionality between those. So our district goal. Ronnie. you if you memorized our district goals from earlier. We talked about really having a need for that consistent. proactive set of attendance strategies. particularly for those students who were were missing school due to mental health reasons. So we were focused on creating and and playing out a vertically consistent. research based set of strategies to prevent patterns of school refusal and really trying to align our practices across the district. So you can see the list of outcomes and measurements we were shooting for you go to the next slide. Ronnie.
we took a three prong approach to this. So we developed school based attendance teams. not like these didn't exist before. but really with consistent sort of protocols around what was happening and how often it was happening. So those school based teams. which typically included an administrator. the school nurse. your counseling teams. So they met at least every three weeks. specifically to focus on the weekly attendance reports and use that to tier their intervention around who needs what. Additionally. we had two district groups. a an attendance working group and an attendance team. The working group. we met five times over the course of the year. we spent our time really researching best practices. looking at kind of the legal requirements as well. and used that to develop communication and communications that we sent out consistently and different tools to try. the Attendance Team had a slightly different focus. They were really looking at the data holistically. So were there patterns across families? Were there places in particular areas? And we had folks on that team that include people like Jay Verhoosky from Wayland Youth and Family Services. Heather Yates the head of Nursing. Ronnie's part of that team. La Toya is a part of that team. And then we had a an administrator from every building that came together and and we problem solved and troubleshooted and and tried to make make some headway. So the areas of focus you may recall. David did some real early messaging around the importance of attendance. Every school principal also sent their own message. messaging around why strong attendance is important. We were pulling different infographics to use to try to really convey the importance of this. The working group developed different emails and letters that came out. and in those early messages. we let people know that we would be sending regular attendance information out. because one of the things we know about school attendance is oftentimes. families. kids. adults. underestimate the number of days that are missed. So that's a very strong in the research. so that the updating families around how often their children have missed. You know that can be tricky. too. You know. you know that the child was out with with covid for a week or with strep throat for a week. and we're still sending the letters just. just. just so you know the numbers and we realize why they were out. but just to to kind of follow through with the consistency around the communication. we also looked at some shared truancy and attendance information that families just might not know. like some families don't know that they are legally required to get their children to school. that that there's. you know. they can be held accountable for not child to school on a regular basis. Yes. Betsy. can I ask a question on that the communication that was sent out? Was it general or Or was it specific to the individual? Unknown: Like. specific to the individual. okay. but I guess. like the context of it. like the I understand the number would be specific. but the messaging in general. like. we understand your child was out sick. However. something Betsy Gavron: galike it was sort of like a something that went to everybody. okay. we say. and we know you. we know why you were out and why did you know this and this number. but okay. and the reasons why the intended is so important was communicated in so the group crafted letters that were sent at four days and eight days at the high school. just because of the way their crediting system works. and and at the other buildings. it was five or 10 days. and then there was a 15 day letter as well. We also made a decision. once we were deeper into the year. like two thirds of the way through the year. you weren't sending like a four day letter. because that's nowhere near chronic absenteeism. So we adjusted as we went through the year.
Another thing that we did was to really align our intervention planning. So we had an aligned intervention monitoring spreadsheets that we were using. We came up with some attendance intervention plans that were used across the board with particular things to try. We created a counselor information gathering form that would be an interview that folks could do withwith families. kind of to try to troubleshoot what's what's at the heart of why the child's not coming to school. as well as a student interview form that we created so so we could get information directly from kids. even younger kids. and we spent some time really focused on celebrating improvement. too. So if you click to the next slide Ron. you can see. So here's an example of a couple pages from the interview for students asking kids. you know. to be able to feel about how they feel about coming to school. what's hard about school. to try to identify some of those things when I'm at school. what are the things that are true for you? And based on that. that can help inform what intervention. you know. if you think a child's coming. you know. not coming to school because they're having some challenges with friendships. then you work on the friendship area. If they're having. you know. just feeling worried in general. what are some coping strategies? So. so these can help really inform what the intervention looks like. So was the interview done on a like situational basis. if it was a student who was trending to more absenteeism. or was it done to generally. to students we were piloting it last year? So I think it Jen in general to sort of because sometimes we may have a whole hypothesis that may not be true. and so you want to get the information from the from the kids. Here a couple. You can see there was a we created a big congratulation banner that could go at a top of an email to. you know. students who had made improvements. So maybe they were really struggling for a semester. and we noticed. we wanted to just really indicate. like we see you. we see that you're trying at this. And then there's the elementary version. where we put the child's picture in them. That's not one of our students. That's just a mock up. but where we put the pictures in and sent those out. we got some positive feedback about that as well. So what were the results of these efforts? So if you recall. before we were at almost 18% we were down to 10.3% last March. this is what's posted on the website. When it's fully updated. will be down to 10.2% by the end of the year. and all of our other numbers have dropped considerably. So if you can go to the next slide. Ronnie. Christina Rodrigo: this is really remarkable. I just want to pause. I mean. the average number of absences went down almost by 10 days! Betsy Cullen: Well. this is as of March. though Betsy Gavron: there was still percentage wise as of Betsy Cullen: the percentage held true. but the number of days were still missing April through June. Betsy Gavron: yes. but we were down. So we were 10.3% of our students were chronic absenteeism on headed for that in March. and we were down to 10.2% by the end of the year. so that you know there was a real significant drop. You can see our attendance trends over time too. We're not quite back to the pre pandemic. but we're back. We're actually below where kind of we were right after the pandemic. Erin Gibbons: and we dropped Covid absence requirements quite significantly last year. So Betsy Gavron: you go to the next slide. you can see these were our three subgroups from our SOA group. We went. you know. there's. there's still more work to do. You know. we have significant improvement. and having almost a quarter of our students who are Black and African American. absent for 18 days is still a lot. but but dropping 10% or more across all of our subgroups was. was. was progress that we felt really good about. Erin Mueller: It's really exciting. Christina Rodrigo: Thank you. Betsy Gavron: This is very hard at it. So. I mean. really. Ronnie was at all the meetings. You know. we had lots of people coming together. thinking really hard doing significant outreach. principles. reaching out over the summer to families who had been behind like. we really want your child to have a strong start. So a lot of relationship building. you know. really thinking about who are the trusted adults for kids. We want kids to want to be at school. So and. you know. some some harder conversations with some families to it. And still. you know. we say. Please. please. please. don't take that trip now. And some families are still making those choices for probably really good reasons. for David Fleishman: even the first two days. you know. I was worried about the first two days of school. and we'll get the final numbers for you. just because. you know. I thought if the kids were missing the first two series of school. or some of the same students were missing on this list. That's not a good way to start the year. Erin Gibbons: So just 1/3 of my kids missed the second day of school.
Erin Mueller: Its tough coming back that early. Unknown: Yeah. I did that Erin Gibbons: a good idea at the end of the like. yeah. there's a lot of people that start starting before Labor Day this year. a lot. It's not like we were an outlier. yeah. David Fleishman: no. I think. I think what I've learned is that it's very important to have a consistent. if possible. have a consistent time you start every year because routines and prudent predictability matter. That's like. kind of my advice. Betsy Cullen: It's like building a habit. David Fleishman: kind of habit Exactly. Ronnie Kessler: A lot of districts start Wednesday and do Wednesday. Thursday. and then have Friday. right? And
Ronnie Kessler: late school at it that way. And I was like. and Betsy Cullen: Huge. Thank you to everybody who worked on these initiatives this year. I mean. it's really powerful to see then I was like. oh. yeah. it might. that might help. you're trying something. and to be able to measure it and see. wow. it actually happened. David Fleishman: It's really one of those things that you experiment with. And I think. you know. one of the challenges also. is some of the communication isn't always received initially. because it is such a shift. But in terms of looking at the research about the intense communication with families. I mean. that's really what the research says. So it's important to follow that research. Erin Mueller: And I had heard. I think that was the reason for my question. I had heard that the personalization of messaging and reaching out to families and and letting them know we miss your student. we want your student to come back. I think felt really good to some families. It makes people like as Caroline Han says. it makes the invisible visible. It reminds them that we care about you. We want you back in school without you. It's not the same without you. So I know from many people that that was really well received. Betsy Gavron: It's always hard to figure out how that's it's I really have to commend the principal. It was super time consuming. consuming. Kate Sambuco: I'm sure it feels like a very heavy lift. but it had such a significant Betsy Gavron: and people were really committed to it. It was a very dedicated group. Erin Gibbons: I have a question. Is there any split of Metco that we can pull out of this? And I'm asking because I really wonder if the like ability to get out here and if you miss your bus. Unknown: you're out of luck Erin Gibbons: you're not going to school that day. And I don't know if there's an answer to fix it. but I just is. do we have data on that? Betsy Gavron: I know anecdotally that that that is the case. yeah. for some Yeah. families. yes. yeah. Erin Gibbons: That was just. you know. and I don't because is it one bus for elementary. middle and high altogether. or it is two Betsy Gavron: there two busses at the middle school. In the high school. there's. there's two stops and two or two main hubs. They're different routes. but there's two different busses. the middle and high school for the elementaries. but they're all the same. like the middle school busses all one time. even if you're on a or No. Erin Mueller: are you saying could they race to another bus? Erin Gibbons: in the morning. morning like they can't get to another bus? Right? Unknown: Correct. Erin Gibbons: The only way we could fix that is potentially. if elementary could then get on a middle and a high. which we don't typically mix those age groups. Betsy Gavron: We've done a little. We've played with that a little bit on the going home end. for example. we had some kids that were staying for the what's the name of the drama program? I was just thinking. Unknown: Oh. Broadway that Betsy Gavron: was meeting on Wednesdays. and they were staying here really long days. And. you know. we met with the family. we talked through the pros and cons of it. And there's not a ton of kids that go home on that fairly late bus. And it worked out in this particular case. but not every family would feel comfortable with their their child going going home with. you know. juniors and seniors in high school Erin Gibbons: totally understand. I was just thinking that would be only one way that they could catch something like you missed it for elementary Betsy Gavron: you could not. Erin Gibbons: They're not close. They're not Kirsteen Patterson: based on kind of what collective location of right the resident. the students in that age group are and they differ between the elementary. middle and high school locations. Okay. Betsy Gavron: okay. so in terms of next steps. we we just calendared all the meetings for the year. I just sent out all those invites yesterday. people inboxes were full of invites from me. So we'll continue both the work with both teams. and we're also adding adding focus on on staff attendance. and obviously working through some strategies for any other questions. I Unknown: I know. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all data. I Christina Rodrigo: I can't wait to see next year's data as well. to just see it like continue to carry book vacations. you know. a long time in the future. right? Betsy Gavron: We only have 180 days for them. We have 185 other days to choose from. So that's always my hope. All right. the last thing is. David Fleishman: the last thing is our proposed we thought to have a calendar of meetings is very helpful to us. Help for you in terms of knowing what's ahead. So we'll talk a little bit about what we're thinking in terms of timing. I should also say that while we're calling up the budget calendar. there's some TBAs there. You know. for us. it was a little bit later last year. and later is better for us in terms of budget. because we have more accurate information. We know there are some town bylaws that compete. but the later we go is. the better we don't always know. Of course. things like health insurance until the end of January. state aid.
recommendation with the governor. you we get that. But of course. it's the legislature who makes the final call on that. So here I let me just open up my computer. and then we'll get it up. That's okay. I'll grab it.
and then we'll get there. It is save screen now. so tonight. you saw our agenda. We are going to have at our next meeting. my own goals and update on our facilities master plan. We have an excellent subcommittee for our Facilities Master Plan. who's been interviewing finalists for our master Facilities Master Plan firm over the last two days. Betsy has joined us. We have a really good team. and we're looking forward to talking more about that at our next meeting. We're also looking forward to talking about the Yonder implementation plan.
So at the meeting after that. we thought a shorter meeting to hear a little bit about parents square and our new ISS. We'll have a shorter meeting because we're doing some planning that night in Executive Session. So shorter meeting. we thought it'd be good the second meeting October to have a Spanish Immersion update. also our financial end of year report. That's that's an important document. and obviously Kirsten has just started. so it's a lot of work among other projects. but it's really important for you to know whether we finished the year with like $20 left or $600 you know what I mean? You know it was close. Erin Gibbons: If you finish it in black. I'll be impressed.
Plus. one is where we're at. David Fleishman: So then we will head to Boston on our first meeting in November. And we thought about having a student panel. which is a different. you know. we want to mix it up in terms of presentations for you. we expect we're going to sit down again and obviously have regular facility master plan updates. and we'll finalize that. But we thought there could be another one at that time. even inviting the firm we saw. Like in that night for an overview for you. we'll also have an MCAS update. And then we thought. as we work towards our goals in early December. that could be a nice time to hear from both our elementary principals. the first meeting. the secondary school principals. the second meeting. including. we put in parentheses cell phones. because that's certainly one of the district goals. And the goal here is make sure you hear about all our different goals. We're going to check. I don't know that we'll need four meetings in January. We might get into February. We've got to time that out. So those. those are all those are all kind of tentative. Those are just on the calendar. but we'll. we'll get a more up to date schedule. We thought in February a Tech Update. There's a lot of work in the technology area. both on the operational side and the instructional side. Here a little bit some of the work. the PD with AI. our portrait of a learner work. we have a meeting. actually a planning meeting in a couple of weeks. Be nice to get an update to you. Then I'm sure we'll do some kind of update beforehand. Deborah the middle school curriculum leaders. talk about the accountable. talk workand how that is going. We thought we would have after that. we'll do a double Ronnie. both on executive function and the work from Sarah Ward on the Gen Ed side. and then have a student services update after that. Actually. Ronnie. it's a trifecta for you. Actually. I don't know why. I don't know why we did this. There's a reason we did this. and I can't figure out because co teaching. We'll have some co teachers talk after. we can't we need some time. of course. to do that. That's why we did. yeah. maybe. yeah. that that's a lot. That's all right. We may flip one. I realized that co teaching as Ronnie. but we'll have some some teachers be involved in front of you to hear from some teaching pairs. and then a diversity. equity and belonging update. maybe Caroline with with some of her DEP lead teachers. At the end of May. we'll have to have a final decision. of course. one of our goals in terms of a literacy curriculum. There's a working all year. doing some work and some piloting. I didn't know. did Betsy Gavron: you mentioned the Prism grant last time. The Prism grant so we get some money to help support the literacy curriculum. can't remember if we
David Fleishman: Yeah. no. that's Erin Gibbons: I don't think we did. Erin Mueller: I don't think you did either David Fleishman: . just for the principal then. Yeah. we've been got in. That's good. Betsy Gavron: Yes. we got a significant grant for to support the piloting work and education around the different programs and the why the need for the different programs. as well as some of the partial funding for K to two reading curriculum for next year. So it's a like a multi $100.000 grant. So it's. it was great. Fantastic. Yes. David Fleishman: that is from our State Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. which is still giving grants. Our federal government is now allocating the money that was appropriated as well for the most part.
So which is kind of. what. how it's supposed to work. from a legal or you're all lawyers. you know. that's the way it's supposed to work. And then our Portrait of a Learner recommendation. we expect to finish that in early June. So some of the initiatives. like. for example. Portrait of a Learner. and our work around Master Facilities Plan. we expect to have multiple updates. We put those in as placeholders. Those may shift as the work. but we want to let you know thatyou can expect regular updates. Betsy Cullen: We probably need to add another one in the spring for the master facilities. for the actual readout of options. David Fleishman: exactly. So we'll David Fleishman: do some of that as well. We will definitely do that once. once we have the firm. will really sit down and Betsy Cullen: do that in like April map it out more. We expect to have the firm by the end of the month at the latest. Erin Gibbons: I'd love to get a Bridges curriculum update. Math Achievement discussion on there. Betsy Gavron: See. it's some of that when we do the MCAS data. but we can certainly what in particular would be of the most interest. Erin Gibbons: Well. this is what you're kind of iReady data or but is it your Betsy Gavron: we so we're this is first. this is the will be the third Erin Gibbons: third year right Betsy Gavron: implementation. and we're moving everybody from the second edition to the third edition. Erin Gibbons: Okay. so I think maybe just some reporting around that. how that's going. and then if you can tie any progress in. iReady data and or MCAS data to what we've been doing in Bridges. Betsy Gavron: Sure Erin Gibbons: anybody else have any thoughts on that? Betsy Cullen: I'd be curious if the middle school math teachers Betsy Gavron: we had a great visit. The middle school math are observing sort of qualitatively or anecdotally. teachers came down and observed bridges in action too. And then any shift in the sort of readiness of students the fifth grade teachers came and saw the sixth graders last matriculating. That's probably only in the last year. I don't year. So that would that would be wonderful. know that that will happen so quickly. but
David Fleishman: So we will weave that into a middle school. We'll figure out how to weave that in to the presentations when our people are here. Erin Mueller: And I also know you had to allocate a little bit more time and kind of. I guess. change a little bit how that was taught. to accommodate a little bit more science time and other topics that we were struggling to fit everything into the day. So just the slight modifications to that that you made. I think it would be nice to hear about absolutely how that's going. Thank you. Christina Rodrigo: Is there any like survey or anything about mental health that's coming out this year? I think like last year. we had Jason Verhoosky and we had not talk like Betsy Gavron: so this year is a. in November. they'll do the Metro West Behavioral Health and Adolescent Health Survey that will take place in November. We usually get the data for that around May. so maybe in June. we could do some sharing out of that data too. They. I know they do a big report out to the community in early fall of the fall. right. David Fleishman: Because you need time to analyze and come up. Erin Gibbons: Okay. it's a it's so much data. it's like a lot. Christina Rodrigo: Okay. yeah. It's an important topic. so I don't want it to. like. Absolutely. or if we're doing other things to like. sure. yeah. Erin Gibbons: yeah. Like a wellness update. Do we have that in here? Ronnie Kessler: No. there's been some great. like. crisis training too that. That's happened this year too. So we can. we can figure out a time to weave some Kate Sambuco: in our last meeting. you mentioned the anti discrimination protocol. David Fleishman: I was just gonna say that. Yeah. Kate Sambuco: Are we going to hear about that anytime soon?
David Fleishman: Yeah. we could do a nondisclosure Well. if you got a time to do a non discrimination protocol update. Betsy Cullen: I'd made a note about AI updates. and I see you mentioned the AU PD work in connection with Jen's February 4 tentative Tech Update. but there was also developing AI guidance for instruct. like instructional guidance. So can we make sure that'll be part of her. in terms of that goal. she will cover. like the tech goals. and that's the AI goal will be part of the tech goal recovery. for sure? Yeah. Sure. You know. we can just add this as we go. and we'll integrate this. We just thought it'd be helpful for you to have some kind of map. It's actually incredibly helpful for me. I won't speak for anybody else. but it's super helpful. because to see it laid out helps spark your brain. Of like. looking at the goals and then looking at this. what else might we want to David Fleishman: and it's helpful for our team members kind of be thinking about when they present. you know. get early notice as we think about ideas and how to share this in the most effective way and around. you know. measuring and progress. Erin Gibbons: how we plan. like. what meetings I want to skip.
Unknown: Start skipping some. Erin Mueller: We asked and very received. Thank you. This is wonderful. Erin Gibbons: It's great. Oh. the one comment I was going to make was. I think it would be great. We used to hear from each of the principals about wants for the budget. totally understand that we're not in the space of need. want. etc. but it may be nice for us to just hear from them when they present against their goals in December. if there are things that particularly really are important in the budget. or just just maybe touching on something. not the wants. right. like needs and hey. you know. this was in here this year. and it's really making a difference. orthings that maybe there are wants that are first time piloting type things that we could try and work with the Foundation on supporting because we know that things are going to be tight next year. So I think that's one thing that could be helpful to align with their goal presentations. other than that. I mean. this is great.
David Fleishman: and we'll get the budget. you know. timing down. I know it used to be here. like very early in December. So we want to push back as long as we can. and also have a thorough process. So that's. that's our goal. Betsy Cullen: I know that Susan use to do. like. a quarterly financial update. David Fleishman: We will have those. We're going to put those in. Those are. those will be placeholders. We've got to. got to do that. So you can expect. I mean. that is so important. as important part of your role in terms of financial oversight. And certainly Kirsteen is aware of how tracking expenses compared to the budget. is really. really important. We did not have. I will share. in terms of budget. we did not hire any positions. Sometimes early on. you know. I've had. where we have to hire positions. We've not budgeted. We've kept to our budget. So that's something we're monitoring. The other part. of course. we monitor is student services. Erin Gibbons: Oh. David. don't say it. Don't say that out loud. Just let it. let it. David Fleishman: It's just something else we monitor. That's all it's I just wanted to we're just moeunitoring. Erin Mueller: Keep monitoring. David Fleishman: Yes. we monitor. Monitor carefully.
Ronnie Kessler: Oh yeah. we got our in our van. Erin Gibbons: Oh. your bus. Erin Mueller: I saw it too. Ronnie Kessler: its registered. license plate. which we're Christina Rodrigo: congratulations. working on. and it's all set to go. David Fleishman: speaking of Student Services and grants. Kate Sambuco: we should take a ride Ronnie Kessler: Yeah. we had it marked number one. just in case we end up getting
Erin Gibbons: maybe we will. Yeah. Ronnie Kessler: they're like. Do you want a number? I'm like. sure. Erin Mueller: Otherwise. it's just really great. Unknown: ERG van. yeah. Erin Gibbons: Kirsteen. I was just thinking. and I'm not sure if there's a good way to suggest this to you. but in conjunction with the with the budget. in advance of that. think it might be really helpful to have a deep dive into expenses and tracking expenses over the past few years. where they fell. where we cut. I um. because people. I'm not sure that's a place we can really cut service we don't want to cut. But I think it would be really helpful to know. like. how lean we are against the expenses. how those are bucketed. Have we made big shifts in that or big cuts in the past couple years? It may be helpful for the community to understand our budget better and that. you know. we have. like. the data to back it up. And it's not just that we have some million dollar dollars sitting somewhere that we can just. you know. because that's kind of like the only piece where I don't. like Kirsteen Patterson: are you specifically asking about the non personnel? Erin Gibbons: yes. yes. yeah. And if you have ideas. like. on how you could kind of like. show it. or Betsy Cullen: you're thinking in like. categorical buckets. Unknown: yeah. like. and we use you take a little leeway to do that. to have it kind of presented. And Erin Gibbons: you don't necessarily have to. like. yeah. however you I just think you thinking about it. like. knowing numbers. knowing how you can kind of pull things data wise. I think some sort of graphic that not even just a graphic. but like some sort of way that it's easily. easily digestible to community members that don't necessarily sit at this table or work in the schools every day. how those things have been impacted with the budget and where we've sat for the for the past few years. and potentially next year. things like that. Kirsteen Patterson: And I do you mean. like. what was not bought last year that we had originally thought Erin Gibbons: potentially. or what we didn't spend on that we were planning to spend on. where we took like. for lack of a better term. robbed Peter to pay Paul. Those kinds of things. The other piece that we talked about. and I can't remember if it was when you started here. before you came. but I don't know that we ever saw it was where we ended up having
toreallocate funds away from proactive facilities. type of care and upkeep and maintenance. to things that had been deferred previously. like the boiler was an example.
That's a spot. you'll she Betsy knows what I'm I think you know what I'm talking about. because the piece that I'm trying to Unknown: so I want to just. yeah. Erin Gibbons: what I'm thinking about there is to show why upfront investment and spending on on the upkeep or new or purchase is important. Because if you don't. all you're doing. is like different by deferring. you're just ending up spending there's there's that that's a different. like bucket. actually. yeah. last couple days in our right. Kirsteen Patterson: and is that something that we are going to address with our master plan? Because that's kind of what. what the dialog is about. Doing nothing has a cost. exactly. and that's. that's. I think we need to also have that going into budget season for these people here. as well as the bigger community. before we even talk about going to build new buildings. David Fleishman: Oh. absolutely. that's probably part of the master plan. Kirsteen Patterson: but I don't know that I can quantify that. That would definitely be an expertise level that is above the just a budget line item per se. There's different components of that. Erin Gibbons: but we can look at historically capital planning. where things have been pushed out indefinitely. three years. two years. whatever it was. and then where did we have to pull it from early because it was pushed out and deferred against advice. David Fleishman: I mean. even looking at. I mean. you look at a maintenance budget and see. did we go over by how much and where did it come from? Take a look at that. That's we can take a look at that.
Erin Gibbons: And the other thing that I just wanted to put on the radar that we're gonna have to talk about. I believe. is bus parking. Unknown: It's already been three years.
Time flies. yes. Erin Gibbons: and. and I know that there's just Yeah. history. We don't have to talk about it right now. I'm just putting it on the radar. Unknown: No. I do have that on the radar. and I have already had conversations and that everything that was identified for mitigation that we accomplished. So I think what is the next step is just reaching out to the town manager in the aspect of requesting the renewal piece of it. Erin Gibbons: Okay. awesome.
Okay. sorry. I just kind of put you on the spot. but I wasn't expecting answers right now. I just was like thinking I had it. You did.
I'm just very nervous for the budget. So.
Unknown: okay.
it's really good news on the Prism grant. Yes. Kirsteen Patterson: the funding for curriculum itself can pay up to half of the cost of whatever the curriculum is in grades k1. and two. Erin Gibbons: awesome Kirsteen Patterson: and maybe k3 Unknown: either k2 or k3
awesome. three. Erin Mueller: So half of the half. right? It's great. Unknown: Twitter is good. and we did talk about putting that on capital. Betsy Gavron: I think that was a very successful Unknown: yes with math. It was it was Betsy Gavron: yes. So I would think that that might be the way to go. Erin Gibbons: Yeah. we should definitely keep that. Betsy Gavron: I was not there when it had. when that process played out. I wasn't at this table with that process played out. but I know it. it's worked really well. Yes. Kirsteen Patterson: because you can. we have a new structure. though. in the town with Wood capital. So Unknown: yeah. Kirsteen Patterson: that that may change. Unknown: Yeah. Just disclaimer. Kirsteen Patterson: Uh. things that might have been in that kind of pipeline might shift or change how. how they're prioritized or reallocating that capacity. Erin Gibbons: I think it benefits and behooves the town and the budget. though. because we can depreciate it as a capital item. and we can't depreciate it as an operating item. right?
Kirsteen Patterson: Well. yes. because you wouldn't. you wouldn't put something thathigh cost in in your operating budget. typically for a year. like one year. you would do that over the course. And I think that's why it ended up. Erin Gibbons: the math ended up there. and it was a really good answer. So if we can finagle that. it's probably the best way to try and do
Unknown: it
Erin Gibbons: before I go to 4.1 can I ask? Did this get left on. Diane? Because. for some reason I didn't. I don't remember saying that wasn't resolved at the last meeting. Y eah. okay. yep. okay.
Unknown: We talked about putting it on in October when we did the other thing. but maybe I'm misremembering.
This is. well. this is. Erin Gibbons: we did appoint Brian O'Herlihy yes to the CIPC. if I'm remembering those acronyms correctly. and the Select Board confirmed him so and I think he's going to be a really good appointment there. The one thing that we really need to find somebody for the seat is the audit committee. Betsy Cullen: So that's on my list. We thought we were going to meet as a full master plan advisory group in August. but then we've just been meeting as a smaller evaluation subcommittee as we reviewed the proposal submitted by the firm. So the whole group hasn't come back together. but I can. we can send an email to that group and see if there's anyone. that was that was a to do of mine from our August meeting is to ask that group if anyone be interested in serving it's the audit committee. I have really good information on the Audit Committee. It only meets almost five times a year. Unknown: full stop.
Erin Gibbons: the meetings include discussing annual comprehensive financial report prepared by the town's external auditor. as well as creating an annual report with recommendations for the board of selectmen. which should be the Select Board. That must be an old I have a link to more information. Should anyone find someone who would like to join this committee? It is a three year term. and I do have somebody that wants to go and chat with people five times a year in town. right?It's only 15 times over three years. Betsy Cullen: Come on. You want me to resend it. We had the blast that we had already sent out. Do we want to resend it? Erin Gibbons: Let's try and do some targeted outreach. Okay. I'd like everyone to come back to me at the end of the month and tell me that they've talked to three people. myself included. I will find three people. Unknown: Is there any particular background. like they need to be a CPA? No. no. Erin Gibbons: They need to be warm body. Unknown: Well. I'm kidding. Erin Gibbons: there's I can tell you. I mean that you don't need. like. specific expertise. Okay. so thank you. Brian O'Herlihy. 12 million times over. and I love that the CIPC has been created
5.1 based on revisions to Title Nine statute and requirements. Our title. nine. proposed revised policy is in our folder. Betsy. I welcome you. Gavron. to give any additional feedback that you care to share. Betsy Gavron: Yeah. when we were working on our handbooks. and we were sort of updating the language for handbooks that met with the new regulations. and when we were building out a new employee handbook group. it was apparent that our new protocols that to match the new regulations that are the school committee policy was just dated and had had not changed. So I reached out to our school council. and this is what. what this is. what's been vetted that matches with the new regs. Erin Gibbons: And so one of my questions was. our coordinator is Ronnie? Correct? Ronnie Kessler: Yes. Erin Gibbons: So what contact info should we have in the policy? Should it just be email and phone number and potentially address here? Yeah. that's fine. Okay. so Director of Student Services. Ronnie Kessler. Should I do the Wayland public schools? right? Yeah. I think what's the address here? Ronnie Kessler: 41 Cochituate Rd
Erin Gibbons: I was gonna say 38 Millbrook. I knew that was wrong. so that's the fire and safety. Unknown: Okay? And then your email is Ronnie. dot underscore. at work. I'm Town. Wayland.us.org. okay.
and do you have a direct link to doctor? 508- 358-3756.
okay.
Erin Gibbons: Um. So just to reiterate. this has already been reviewed by counsel. and I did overview. I didn't have any issues. I didn't have any questions. Does anyone around the table have any issues? Questions. anything? And in the event we do not. I would entertain a motion to approve the revised Title Nine policy and to put it out. Unknown: Sorry. just there's another contact information spot further down in the document for the superintendent that I think we need to complete as well. I don't have page numbers. Erin Gibbons: Oh. I see it. I didn't notice that. You know why? Because it wasn't yellow before. wait one second.
Unknown: Okay. go ahead. Erin Gibbons: Do you want me to put you as doctor. or do you just want to be David Fleischman? The latter would be great. Okay. and I Unknown: what? Yep. 41 Patricia Road. Wayland. 37633763. I. 763 508-358-3763. okay.
File at the top. and it is currently.
if you're talking to me for not kidding. Okay. I'm just doing this and you are David underscore Fleishman at Wayland. ps.org. correct. Okay. I
Wow. it's AC. dash
Erin Gibbons: and should it have the sexual harassment slash r.
Title Nine. or should it just be Title Nine? Genuine question? Kate Sambuco: currently we have it as slash Yeah. in your current version. Unknown: What were you gonna say? Yeah. I like it with both. I think it's supposed to right identify or I just didn't want to Yeah. Got it. Okay.
Okay. all. Um.
anybody else?
Erin Gibbons: No. okay. anybody want to make a motion? Are you asked for a motion? Unknown: I moved to approve and send out for comment. Revise Title Nine. policy. AC. dash. R. do we have a second? Erin Mueller: I'll second. Unknown: Okay. all in favor. aye. any opposed? None. Okay.
Can uh. Erin Gibbons: consent agenda.
Do we have any questions comments. or might Ellen be visiting? Unknown: I move to approve the Consent Agenda.
Betsy Cullen: I'll second. Unknown: Okay. all in favor. Aye. Any opposed
for old times sake? Are there any matters not reasonably anticipated by The chair? Nope. Noi. give me one. I'm Yes. I Erin Gibbons: I move to enter executive session for the purposes of reviewing and approving the executive session minutes with the intent to redact and release said minutes. as permitted by MGL Chapter 38 section 22 for July 16. 2025 the school committee will be joined by Diane Mirabella. recording secretary. The School Committee will adjourn in executive session and will not reconvene in open session. Do I have a second? Erin Mueller: I'll second. Unknown: Betsy. yes. Kate. yes. Christina. yes. Erin. yes. Erin. yes. Okay. So.
Select Board
09-24-25 - Select Board01:25:37
15-Sep-25 - Select Board03:27:40
2-Sep-25 - Select Board03:17:11
18-Aug-25 - Select Board03:10:44
Carol Martin: Good evening.
Carol. Can chair the Select
Board. I'm calling the meeting
of the Select Board to order for
Wednesday. September 24 2025 at
6pm It's a hybrid meeting.
although we are physically in
Wayland. town building. Select
Board meeting room. One may
watch with the meeting link that
can be found on our calendar
pursuant to chapter two of the
acts of 2025 this meeting will
be conducted in person and via
remote means. in accordance with
Africa law. this meeting may be
recorded which will be made
available to the public as soon
on WayCAM. as soon after the
meeting as is practical when
required by law or allowed by
the chair. Persons wishing to
provide public comment or
otherwise participate in the
meeting may do so by in person
attendance. by accessing the
remote meeting remotely. as
noted above on the Wayland
calendar. we respect request.
Why I'm rushing today? Public
comment be limited to two
minutes per person. So the
agenda for tonight is going to
include announcements and public
comment. and approximately 610
we will have a joint meeting
with the finance committee and
the school committee to discuss
the fiscal year 2027. project
task force strategies that will
be followed by a discussion
review and possible to request
of the finance committee make a
recommendation on a possible
debt exclusion vote. We will
discuss review and potential
vote to amend the town of
Wayland non union employee sick
leave policy. We will discuss
review and potentially vote to
issue a bands versus bonds. and
also the vote on the DEP
reclassification of the
department come with works
facility at 66 River Road. There
are no topics not reasonably
anticipated 48 hours in advance.
and hopefully at six. 735
hopefully 730 we will adjourn.
So do we have. I would like to
recognize that in the room with
me this evening. we have Bill
Whitney and Doug Levine. So Mr.
We are joined by Anne brensley.
She's on. I see that I'm here my
there. Good evening. joined by
Anne bransley. remotely. Mr. Fay
will not be able to join us this
evening. We are also joined in
the room by our town manager
Michael McCall and remotely by
our assistant town manager.
Kelsi callous Spirlet. All
right. so are there? Is there
any public comment in the room.
I see But is there any online?
No online. Okay. Is there any
announcements?
Unknown: Okay. I would just note that the today's edition of the central register has the request. request information with respect to the property at 212 Cochituate road that has been put together by the 212 Cochituate road Advisory Committee seeking responses. Finally. later than October 16. the notion being to just alert experienced developers and service providers of housing for people with disabilities to get a sense of what they would propose For the site. the committee would then review that. I think. help inform recommendations that would be made to this board in the spring. after which the Board may wish to issue an RFP more specific. Carol Martin: that property. Thank you. Um. Mr. McCall. did you have any announcements? Michael McCall: Nothing specific. Madam Chair. other than to remind people. week from this Saturday will be our Wayland festival. I encourage people to check out on the website. Be held over at Town Center. and it will be a combination of the arts Wayland festival and multicultural festival. as well as touch a truck events. So it should be a good time. And it's my understanding for Mr. Reynolds. it is rain or shock. Carol Martin: I was also going to speak to that and but one thing that I'm not sure I was able to ascertain was what time is the parade. the 258 parade. I saw different times. Time was like 10 to four or something. I didn't tend to six and stuff six. But does anybody know what time the parade is running those things? Okay. well. guess what? Maybe we'll find out and announce that on Monday night as well. So anybody else have any announcements? Okay? So. So we are running about five minutes ahead. and I wanted to. I'll move down to number five in the path of here. but I need Mike to come back and do this agenda item. So do you think if you have to leave me. or Would you. could you talk about policy Michael McCall: school committee called. They were nearly and they thought we may be meeting up there. but I said the hybrid was down here. so they're on their way down. Carol Martin: Okay. so within five minutes. and we were wondering if you wanted to speak to number five. discuss review and potential vote to amend the town of Wayland non union. really sickly policy. which is in our packet.
Michael McCall: So what I am asking the board's approval here is for a single amendment. not a complete rewrite of the policy. So last spring. a town meeting. we repealed the bulk of chapter 43 which was our former personnel board bylaws. we repealed some language. we put in new language. and one of the things was that. after reviewing this. it appeared we had policy inside the bylaws. so we chose to remove the policy. and the intent was to integrate it back in and update our policies and put them on the website. Currently. our website is showing a an older policy on vacation buy back from the year 2000 there was a vote from the personnel board and an amendment to the bylaw in 2016 changing the numbers. And the intent was that we would put that back in the policy. It hadn't yet happened. And we had some people approach retirement that would some under that the 20 years of service and one over 20 years of service. speaking with town council to ensure we weren't violating any policy. And now that we don't have the bylaw. they recommended that I have the board make this one amendment with the understanding that we will go back with the you know. consult with the personnel board HR and update the overall policy. But because I have people before me right now who are in the process of going through retirement. we want to ensure that we don't treat anybody unfairly. and would like to have this amendment. I have received some feedback online from some folks that said that other items need to be changed. We are aware of that. but for the purposes of handling the individual or individuals before us. we just need this minor and
Carol Martin: more just one second. All right. any questions from the board. what we're trying to accomplish here we went to the next we'll be trying to switch one actually. hold on with us. Yeah. Did everybody understand what Michael was saying? Does anybody else have any questions on what's trying to accomplish here? So we're really not approving the policy. We're just making a couple amendments. and so maybe on the bottom it would just say a Select Board amendment. September. 2425 it's crossed out. and then the amounts have changed. right? Michael. just. we're just. Michael McCall: we're putting the the lines from the 2016 bylaw into the policy. and we'll display it on the website and then follow it so that we've treated the retirees fairly that we're going through the process. When this happened again. this I did consult town council about how to deal with this. We thought this was a fair and equitable solution. please. Unknown: I think this is fine. You did get an email. however. that pointed out in the fifth paragraph that presently reads. When a permanent employee retires or dies. his or her beneficiary shall receive so if the permanent employee retires but does not die. presumably. he or she would receive pay equal and likewise. if the permanent employee dies. So I might just change the language slightly to reflect that correction. Michael McCall: Am I to interpret that if you were to pass this as Mr. What you would like that you would leave me to craft that language with Council. to clear that up. Is that what you're suggesting. Unknown: sure. or I can propose language. but I think if we could authorize you to work with council. To address that and to I would move that we would approve this change subject to that correction. which we had asked the manager to make. in consultation with Tom Council. Carol Martin: Okay. great. Thank you. So now in discussion. are there any other questions from all the board members? Doug Levine: I just noted that we received an email from the personnel board. but she had mentioned that she connected with you on the phone Carol Martin: before I had read the packet. which I clearly stated. but and I have Michael and I have had a couple conversations about this. and I think he has explained that he will this was an oversight initially. We're just correcting something so the policies in place and that he will. uh. adjust the language and go back to personnel board. right like me. Michael McCall: we will try and update the most recent version to put this in there. in I can consult with Miss. She believe afterwards from the personnel board would put the last policy was that maybe one going back to 2016 the 2016 language does appear one place in the website. and then there is a link to an older policy. So we have to clear that up same time. So this Carol Martin: actually is an issue we've brought up on other things. and that as we are hoping. we go forward. and Michael actually is just going to indulge me for a second. It's actually got a plan in place I'm hoping to implement where we actually end up starting to update our website. So this kind of issue. where things are in two and three places. will go away. All right. If there's not any further discussion. I'm going to have a vote. We have to be roll call. because Ian's persist. I mean. so may I ask that was Bill and Dave. okay? Bill. yes. yes. Dan. yes. Thank you. And Carol. Yes. Motion passes four zero. Michael. thank you. Madam Chair. Okay. our pleasure. So we now we'd like to do is have a turn our attention to the main purpose for tonight's meeting. and it is. I want to thank the board for coming in at such short notice. and I do apologize that we weren't able to get the full five. full five members. but we've got four of us. so thank you very much. So we didn't have a joint meeting. Finance Committee and the school committee. as I mentioned earlier. to discuss the FY 27 budget task for strategies. including. but not limited to recommendations regarding financing River Road and a borrowing and DEP plan. Doesn't say it on the agenda. but we are inviting Mr. Kevin me to join us. who will make the give us a slide presentation. But before you do that. I want to recognize the school committee. and in particular the chair Miss Gibbons and beyond. call to order. Or do you need to call to order? We're all set. You're all set. I want to mention there's a chair here. If there's a school committee member or somebody wants to sit over here. Dr. bless. there's one next to me. You want to anybody wants to move up from the school committee. that's fine. The slide deck. I believe. is hard copies there. although it's going to be up on the screen. And for the Finance Committee. I believe they don't have a quorum. but I want to recognize Phil Judy seems to chair him. and so method. and am I good for Unknown: that? Yes. thank you. Carol. Carol Martin: Thank you appreciate it. and think then we're good. So Brian. we normally. as I mentioned early in the when we put together the slide deck that we ordinarily like to have a few slides and have more time for discussion. Very every full slide. DEP. excuse me. yes. since usually when there is a school committee meeting. people have like. two minutes public speaking. This is a Select Board meeting. and we've had public comment already. So am I okay? Yeah. we have it on the agenda for after this portion of our meeting. Unknown: This after this up there. we'll have public comment. That's fine. just asking. Carol Martin: Okay. so I want to ask the board. do we would. It's 21 slides. and we do. Everyone know watching that the slide deck was changed slightly. and I think the current one is version six is going is in the supplemental packet that came out today. So if you're trying to follow along. that's what. yeah. what is the board's pleasure? Do we? Do we want Ryan to run through the whole deck? Or do we would like him to Unknown: anticipate the presentation I'll probably get through this in 12 minutes. Would you like him to stop as I go Bill much more discussion about the topic. Carol Martin: All right? The floor is yours. Brian. I figure out where
Michael McCall: Madam Chair. if I may. I'd just like to think of some introductory remarks. First of all. I want to thank you the members of the board. the school committee. the Finance Committee. the audience at home. as well as the other members of the community here this evening. as you know. Mr. Kevin and I have been working hard over the last couple of years to deliver balanced budgets to the community within our current Levy. The last few years through level budgeting. and last year. working in collaboration with Dr Fleischman. we were able to make some cuts in the end. which ended in some reductions in staff. and we delivered a balanced budget in both FY 25 and FY 26 due to an unexpected down Tom in our health insurance numbers. we wound up with some excess levy capacity at the end of last year. and Mr. Kevin and I felt that we might be able to go one more year without having to come to the community for an override. And we feel we've been responsible and good stewards with the community. and we've. I've instituted a hiring freeze. We again working with Dr Fleischman. we tried to be responsible with our budgeting. and as we have in the last two years. we put together a budget Working Group shortly after the end of the fiscal year. many of those members are here this evening. Madam Chair. as you know. you've been part of this group. Mr. Kemeny. me. We've had Dr Fleischman. as well as his business manager. Christine Patterson. We've had Phil judici from the finance committee. We've had representatives from the school community. including Aaron Mueller and Aaron Givens. the chair who's here. We've had past members of boards. including Kathy Steinberg and Brian he and what we set out to do is to see where we would be for FY 27 starting some modeling. Mr. Kevin worked with a lot of the department heads to get some preliminary numbers. and from the outset. it started to look like we were going to have a more challenging year than we had in the past. We use some of our worst case scenario numbers. putting in 12% for health care. although we had a better year last year. we put in some numbers. get conservative estimates for state aid. and when we came down to it. it appears that we may have a $1.8 million shortfall. after which we set out to look at some strategies which we have shared with the board. We have two different strategies of helping to close that gap. One. converting some existing levy debt to excluded debt in the other some refinancing of our bond anticipation notes and bombing of some of our debt. I will say that the town has not had to have an operating override in over 10 years. We have to go back to 2013 and some of the reasons we have been fortunate is we had some new growth all the oxbow rivers edge by another name. We also were a foundation aid community for a period of time. so that helped us with our state aid but we've had some changes since then. We haven't experienced the new growth that we have had in recent years. We went back to being a minimum aid community. and we haven't really had the fortune of the new growth. as I said. but that's been compounded by dramatic increases in some of our non discretionary expenses. such as our health care. our pension. our OPEB. which is Other Post Employment Benefits for our retirees. So we've had this perfect storm of events that has unfortunately led us to eating into our levy capacity. And for those who don't know. we're allowed to raise our taxes each year under Proposition two and a half up to our levy capacity and over time. without the new growth increasing two and a half percent. we've come to the point where we've hit that. that threshold where we can't raise taxes without looking at some of these other strategies. Unless we have some change in our new growth. changes in state aid. we foresee this to be a potential problem for the next few years. And so as we work with this budget task force or budget working group. we felt prudent to come before the three boards explain where we are and what our financial picture looks like for the next couple of years. And so momentarily. I will turn this over to Mr. Kevin for further discussion and to walk you through these slides. But this is a projection. It doesn't mean it's certain that it will go this way. It could break our way some years. some years it could go the other way. but we have to start acting now. I've had a lot of. Conversations with the budget working group as well as individuals on that about what we can do. and we want to work together with the community. with this particular group. and possibly create a task force to look at what we will need to do if we have to call for an operating override. And the strategy that we have worked on Mr. Kevin and I. is that we would like to avoid an operating override this coming fiscal year for a multitude of reasons. One. all of us are going into collective bargaining. It would really help us with our numbers if we could settle our contracts and know what we need to ask from the community. Two. we may be looking for a debt exclusion next year to do some of the repairs on this building. Three. as many of you know. we're facing a potential $38.5 million project to join the MWRA to deal with the PFAS in our water. So there are reasons why we think it would be beneficial for us to get through this year. focus on those other large financial tasks. and then put together a thoughtful proposal for the community. which may be a one to three year override. so that we can work on other strategies down the road. looking at how we can encourage new growth. taxable new growth. because a lot of people see growth in the town. but some of the large projects come before us. nonprofits. some of the schools and the religious institutions. how we can better manage budgets. how we can take advantage of technology and other ways to generate revenue. We've already tried some under the leadership of the board. as well as Mr. Kevin and my staff. looking back at our licenses and fees. We also have some new staff that have come on in facilities and IT and we want to look at how we are doing our purchasing. a closer eye on some of our large software contracts. So there are things that we we can do to help minimize these but we want to get through this upcoming fiscal year first. So on that note. I will hand it over to Mr. Kemeny to walk you through the presentation. which has been the culmination of the work so far over the summer. looking at these strategies and the FY 27 Unknown: budget. Mr. Kemeny. good evening. Brian Keveny: The presentation tonight really is to the efforts of this working group that we put together. We even met this morning. and we find this project without everybody chipping in that Mike just alluded to this project. this presentation. I wouldn't have been brought to be so I'm going to go through the slides. Stop me with any questions. Sometimes I go through this and I don't get questions. But if you're confused with something or want clarity. please just ask. So the very first slide is really our group's intent to set to show the status of Wayland financially. Now let me explain what this graph is saying. On the far left hand side. you see the stacks in black. Those relate to fiscal 23 to 26 where we had surplus levy starting in fiscal 27 through fiscal 36 you see red negatives on the bottom of the red. you see blue that relates to the DPW debt service that's funded by levy debt. On the very far right. you see the black going up back into the black. That means that the Middlesex retirement appropriation is expected to be fully funded. So we are expecting Middlesex appropriation to fall off the budget in fiscal 37 so this graph here is trying to display exactly what Wayland is facing in the future. I know we here to talk about fiscal 27 but this is really the real issue that is going on. Carol Martin: Are we successful signed out. Do we have to stop?
Like clockwork. it happens every time I think Unknown: what he's doing is he's starting the other end of the building.
Zoom Zoom is working fine. If that helps Brian Keveny: you see it. okay. yes. hopefully you can Unknown: see the screen. Well. yes. I can. Okay. so. so let's. let's keep Brian Keveny: So this graph is an effort to show folks exactly the condition of the town. We're heading into years of structural deficits where expenses are exceeding revenues.
Carol Martin: Kelly. this. since you can't see that. there's some hard copy over here if you want. Sorry. Brian Keveny: Brian. so. Uh. also you see in fiscal 27 it's the smallest deficit. That's what we're here to talk about tonight with the Selectmen. To have two options in front of them. Michael described before to alleviate an override 27 but you can clearly see. in fiscal 28 through 2636 it's going to be impossible to fund a budget without overrides. We simply don't have revenue streams coming in with new growth. state aid. local receipts to offset the growth and expenses. So structurally. we have to come up with solutions that are going to solve the problem in the next 10 years. As Michael said. our hope was to get past 27 and then develop a plan to develop structural improvements to our structural deficit. This graph here is the efforts of the group to show in one screen exactly where we stand. and this affects the town of school and the unclassified budgets. This graph was developed by projecting out expected increases in expenses on the town budget. the school budget. unclassified. We did projections on the prop two and a half. and we looked at the new growth areas. So all these bar graphs really relate to numbers that we're going to get into a little bit later on the screen. But this was our best effort to show the folks what we're really looking at. What we're really looking at here is beyond 27 we're looking at really to 36 to come up with solutions. though. we don't have to go back to the town every single year for overrides. whether that's a single override or a monthly year. So that's really the financial condition of the town. So any questions on this graph?
So here is a bullet point of some of the things that are affecting the town. and I go through them. Wayland is one of 14 communities in Massachusetts that Moody's has rated as a triple A community. We have strong financial disciplines. and we continue to spend at or below annual budgets. meaning that we don't fully expend our budgets. we return unspent appropriations in the form of free cash. so we're able to find. for the most part. capital. So don't. we don't fully expend all of our appropriations. we continue to need to fund on unfunded pension liabilities. As I say. middle such retirement funding is still 10 years away. So we're expected to be fully funded to 2000 at 2036 however. in the past. Wayland used to get a 3% increase in the assessment. then a six. and that was historically how it went. 3636. they've changed that now to six and nine and a half. and six and nine and a half. So our appropriations. from now until it's fully funded. will be at a greater percent than what we've seen previously. So Middlesex wants to be fully funded in 36 and the only way to do that is increase the assessments that all the member communities are going to pay. We're minimal. We have minimal commercial sector where 95% of the town revenue is dependent on residential tax. Now that residential tax figure. if you compare that to peer towns. Wayland is one of the highest. So on tax recap. we have residential tax. commercial. industrial and personal property. Our residential number is at the high end in comparison to our pier towns. I relatively have a high tax rate compared to peer towns. albeit a medium tax bill. So our average tax bill is more comparable with our peer towns. We have uncertain state support. and we have federal challenges that were apparently unknown at this point. We have uncertain employee costs with Tom school labor unions still unfilled. and we still have the fire contract that's not been settled. which goes back for 2425 and 26 so Michael is currently working on the labor contracts. and they all expire at the end of this fiscal year. Health care expenditures are uniquely uncertain with one time savings taken in fiscal 26 and again. here's another one of our largest budgets that typically runs 10. 10 million. 9 million. Unexpectedly last year we got an increase of less than 3% the year before we got a 10% so this thing is very volatile in our budget. In our projections. we're counting 12% it may be a conservative number. maybe too high. but given what we've seen in the past. we're currently carrying a 12% number. That number is not going to be trued up until February. But for now. purposes of building our budget. we're going to maintain we also have a pending substantial $38 million investment with the MWRA that affects everybody's tax bill in the town. whether it's in water bill. whether he paying taxes you're paying water bills. Fact. the matter is. it affects the family's finances. So if we move to the next file. any questions on that. sorry. I'm going to go through. Is estimated revenue. We're going to go through the 10 year financial forecast. We're going to talk about the fiscal 27 budget forecast. and we've included a lot of the slides that we're going to present tonight in appendix. I'm not going to go through the details of a one of them. however. it depends upon the group's preview. If we want to talk about some we will. but I'm going to go through the slides. allude to the appendix. If you have questions on there. we're certainly happy to answer them. So the general fund revenue really comes from these areas. Here it is real estate and personal property tax. state aid. local receipts. And we get transfers from enterprise funds and revolving funds. and every once in a while we get a grant. It's one time revenue that we use to either allocate towards a capital project or some other endeavor. Those are two and five between this next slide here is a slide I've used for probably over five years running. Now it seems to work well. so let me just show you what the intent here is. on the left hand side is really the prop two and a half calculation. It really starts with last year's priority. a number which was 89 point 3 million. To that you add the standard two and a half percent prop two and a half increase. new growth is highlighted in yellow at 400.000 for this reason. in our original forecast. we were carrying well over $500.000 for new growth because we got it last year. The assessor has come back and said that that trend now is around 400.000 so we originally started our budget group in July. we were carrying over 500 we've now brought that down to 400 we'll get into new growth in a bit. But that's an important barometer. because new growth goes into the prop two and a half calculation. As you bring in new growth. it increases your ability to raise the overall prop two and a half max limit. And we'll get into that a bit. So the next highlighting one is important. It's the annual Max levy limit. It's at 96 point 2 million. That's the number we're projecting. Is the most amount of money Wayland can raise in fiscal 27 tax recap is 96 point 2 million. State aid is 99.5 historical. we've always gotten additional state aid. It hasn't been a year where it went back or we didn't get anything at all. Every single year. we get additional state aid. mostly that's in the form of chapter 70 reimbursement. There is a appendix in the back. if you want to take a look at the trend. But in our forecast. we're projecting state aid will increase about $250.000 a year. We don't want to be too optimistic on that and put in too much. and then stay come back and keep us at a more level amount. so we're conservative on that one. The next one is. is local receipts. The number in there is 6.1 that that's a good story. A couple last year. the town. along with the Selectmen. put in increases on a lot of the fees that the Tom town is sold. and we're seeing the higher volume come in. So that's a growth area for the town. However. every time I get to the tax recap with Dor. they only let me go up amount at an amount that's reasonably above what we actually brought in the year before. I can't go to dor and say I want a 10% increase on Luke receipts. The only way that's going to happen is if I can prove I had that in the prior year. So they only want to take last year's actual which will be fiscal 26 and only let us go up about two and a half percent. That's why it's important to have a very good fiscal 26 that's why we put in the rate increases. we've had good growth of multi vehicle. The last couple of years. We've had new growth. or not growth. but we've had good results from an investment income. That's for the most part. because we've had a borrowing of the COA of $11 million and as that project was being built. we put a lot of that money into investment vehicles to income. We're not going to have that kind of revenue going forward. because we're simply not going to have that kind of money laying around in a bond. So that brings us to a total. Total is. sorry. we got 1.4 million. but transfer some of the funds. you know. we appropriate about 2.5 million of free cash. So we're looking at about 115.000.000.9 Unknown: in total Brian Keveny: ability to fund budgets in 27 new growth. This is a information dor the Wayland Post ran this. I believe. a week ago. or maybe a few weeks ago in the paper. On the left hand side. it shows that Wayland was ranked 312 in new growth. Now. the metric here is they take new growth as a percentage a priority. so they get a level playing field with all the different communities. Every community is not the same. You know. Wayland is not the same as Wakefield or Quincy. So the. The barometer to level everything is that new growth as a percentage of prior levy the willow rack ranks 312. out of 365 on the right hand side. in comparison to AAA. Towns were ranked last. Cambridge is. you know. approaching over so they're Cambridge. for example. their new growth is 3% of the prior we all know Cambridge has a lot of industry and new growth. but hopefully this metric kind of levels things if you take a look at it. So what is comparable? You could probably take a look at Weston. like. what is more comparable to Wayland? Weston? Maybe Cronkite. probably not. Brookline. maybe Winchester. I wouldn't say Belmont. So when you look at the AAA communities. and when Moody's raised these because of certain metrics as well. they don't rate Wayland is AAA community because of its new growth. They don't do that. However. if you want to compare Wayland comparison to our other AAA towns. That's one metric. You can use any questions on that. So here's the local receipts. I talked about it briefly. I wanted to keep this as a slide. On the left hand side. you see the different areas of local receipts. Mostly that's right in motor vehicle. Motor vehicle drives the bus on local receipts. just like in state aid. Chapter 70 runs is drives the bus. That's the biggest revenue stream in state aid is chapter 70 on the right hand side just shows. basically our projections. we're expecting sustained good growth in local receipts. mostly because we continue to see good growth in motor vehicle Plus. we're hoping that the increases on the fees really helps the town. So as we get into the forecast. So the forecast that we're going to go over is a 10 year revenue and expense forecast. We're going to estimate the surplus deficit and surplus and deficit and levy. We're going to estimate the tax levy and the year to year tax increase. We're going to talk about the enterprise funds and revolving funds briefly. and we're going to get into fiscal 27 revenue and expense forecast. which includes the total town. school and unclassified budgets. and now we're going to talk about the fiscal 27 revenue deficit. We wanted to first start with this graph here to really show you what the town has been doing since 2016 to 2026 so the growth rate over 10 years is 4% the growth rate in the last five years is 4.61 the years between 2016 through 2020 for example. one 4% it was a little bit less. So historically. the town has been around the 4% average. If you go back to 10 years. this is what we're averaging our projection. When we see it is over five. It's over five because we're carrying big assumptions on some of these items. We haven't had a single year in these years where health insurance went up 12% so this is where the town historically is actually budgeted their expenses.
Michael McCall: And for those who want a little more explanation in the tendency in the appendix on slide number 17. you can look we broke out what our retirement and our payroll and health care. So you can see that healthcare is been on a steady increase. and that is what has been lifting up our overall budget numbers these last few years.
Brian Keveny: So this next slide is a take from the very first slide that we went over. A lot of the numbers you saw on the first slide came from this chart. Obviously. it's a very busy job. but I'm going to point to the important areas. You have 11 years here that have projections. and their projections based on assumptions and spending. Again. we have health insurance at 12% pension is going from 6% to 9% and back to six to nine we're carrying general insurance at 10% we've mapped in here debt service. Right now. currently. we have a capital plan that only covers the next four years. so I put in some assumptions on what the capital expenses may be. instead of them having just fall off the chart completely. That's unrealistic. So there are assumptions in here on debt service. We probably missed adjusting the excluded debt portion. because there's going to be debt service in the upcoming years. It's going to be funded by excluded debt. But that won't materially change what we're looking at here. So you're looking at five years. and the first highlights in red and yellow are the area percentages. Now we. Went over slide that was less than 5% always keep in mind. we've got some very conservative numbers in our expenses. We don't have labor contracts. Then we have some of our unclassifieds at the high end than they've ever been. The next row to look at is you the tax increase. This does not have anything related to the MWRA. This is the town budget. You see them around 6% you know. 5% five and a half percent. So I wanted schools done school. This is a this is the budget. So the tax rate theories. based on our assumptions. would be around these amounts. The next important number to look at is the third from the bottom. where it's highlighted in red. is deficit those numbers there. starting with the 1.8 leading to the next number next to it. which is 2.4 that 2.4 number is dependent upon the town voting an override of 1.8 the year before. So this is very much a hypothetical analysis each one of those red years you see. there would have to be voted as an override amount in order to generate the override total for the next year. One number is dependent upon the other. So in a perfect world. every one of these numbers would be voted as an override. and these would be the right numbers. but we all know this is a forecast. and the next series of numbers to look at is highlighted in green. Those are the numbers that are the debt service related to the DPW facility. Those are currently in our levy tax bucket. If those are moved to excluded. a new adjusted number in the first year would drop from 1.8 to 1.1 in running across we have about 4.3 million left in debt service. So the story with that project is. not only does it help 27 it really helps. The subsequent years right out to fiscal 35 it's going to either be included as an override number or be excluded from our override number. depending upon if we move from levy to excluded debt. Unknown: It was also a Moody's recommendation in 2018 Brian Keveny: Yeah. in movies. Movies has always encouraged the town to always fund large capital projects by exclusive from prop two and a half by excluded debt. So this chart here ended up being the first graph you showed. This is where those numbers came from. And I'll stop here because anybody has any questions. because it's a busy schedule. and I only want to highlight a certain areas. because they really tell the story as to the next 11 years of spending Unknown: the DEP w if there debt goes down each year. Is that. because there's a constant payment. principal and interest is based on Yes. prior years principal
Carol Martin: balance. what's the dollar amount the budget's going to increase from FY 26 to 27 Brian Keveny: I think 5.83 based on this. it's the top number. 5.83
Unknown: Madam Chair has dollar amount. Brian Keveny: If you dollar amount. sorry. that's all right. To me. it's in my one Carol Martin: of my 40s. I thought I saw. And also. could we have the what was the tax? The dollar the dollar amount increased from 25 to 26 I wrote you these questions. I didn't see the answer. And what was the and what's the was the year over year tax increase. percent? See this? One's six is this looks right? Six. fine. I thought I saw six months seven early the Brian Keveny: tax increase. I don't have the dollar value. The tax increase would be six points as what would be Carol Martin: 6.6 and then for this year that we're in for 26 How much was it always much less than that. It was. I've seen it on another chart. You have three. Unknown: three years. something like that. 4.3841 Brian Keveny: well. we our recap will be down. It will be lower than expected. because we got a little bit more stated. It's slower than what went to town meeting. because our assessments came down and we got a little more stated. I should have brought that number in front of me. Maybe remember call. these are just assumptions. The worst case scenario. these are assumptions and spending. right? The worst case? No. no. I am not assumptions on the revenues. More set in stone. There's not a lot of flexibility on revenue.
Carol Martin: Anyone else have any questions? Ellen. anyone sorry. so we're
Brian Keveny: getting in the fiscal 27 forecast. as Michael briefly talked about in his opening remarks. All the collecting buying projects expire the end of June. We don't know all labor contracts right now for 2728 29 that's why it would be important to try to get past 27 and really being planned for long term structural plan to get out of our deficit situation. But they mentioned Michael is currently trying to resolve the fire contract. We have assumptions in our this projection right now. but we don't ultimately know what that's going to be. We have unknown revenue increases in state aid. and which means that we're carrying $250.000 but you never know down the road that they start pulling back some of that state aid that's really unknown at that point. we won't know our state aid number until January. We won't know our health insurance number until February. So as we compile the budgets initially. we're assuming certain numbers. and they're all going to be trued up at the end of February. when we get all of our numbers in. But we also have. we have a issue with new growth. Right now we're carrying $400.000 so again. the drivers of the 24 self insurance. pension. general insurance. and we need to maintain a provision for labor contracts. And we don't know that number. but it certainly will be a cost driver. When we did our projections for this. this assumption the town and the school. our expense sides were very low. I think. I think the town expense budget is only supposed to go up like 2% in an environment where there's inflation. Christine has done a nice job on her expense side. We'll speak to a bit. But you know. the biggest driver lately in the school budget has been special education. But if you take specialization out of it. they've done a good job of bringing down their expenses. The school budget. as I just said. is really driven by unknowns in special education.
So what we did do is go into this trying to do a budget without having to have other needs. And as group met. and we've met over 10 times. over 10 times on Wednesday mornings. from nine to 11 consistently. we've come to the conclusion we can't produce a budget under the levy. unless we have these three things on the screen happen. The first one is. as we present it to the Selectmen. is to have the residents re vote the DPW levy debt as excluded. That that would involve them calling a ballot question in November and the residents coming out and supporting moving that from levy to excluded. As I said. it not only helps 27 it helps you through multiple years. The next one. as I presented to the Selectmen. was that were to issue. we're planning on issuing $60 million of bonds. One of the ideas that we came up with was to only issue 8 million of the bonds. The 8 million would be for the water department. What we can do is issue bands in November and have those bands bond anticipation notes for the people. okay. bonding notes. which we refer to as bands. The town has issued bands in the fact. in the past. currently. we actually have two bands. outstanding bands. help towns through periods in between an appropriation and then actually getting the funding that it's a it's a bridge of money until they do long term some towns ban a project. completely finish it. and then they know exactly what dollar value to bond. So they actually borrowed exactly what the project ended up spending. I've seen some towns do that. but you can use bands for different reasons. So we looked at this option. and I went true with our advisor. hilltop securities. And the plan that was presented to the Selectmen was was as follows. in November. we issue bonds for the water department. We issue bands for the general fund projects. which in which means that in November 26 those bands would expire. and we then issue them long term bonds we would only have in our fiscal 27 budget. Interest payable. Now there's a cost to doing this. As I told the Selectmen. you're going to be paying interest on those bands between November 25 in November 26 and we calculated the amount around $140.000 that's assuming that the interest rate would be 4% in November. Currently. bonds are paid selling at 4% so if you take a look at one of the slides in the appendix. it's basically a what if scenario. What if we what if we don't issue bonds in November at 4% what if we waited until November 26 and the rates were 3% well. that interest expense kind of goes away because we're going to pay longer term at 3% it's simply a hypothetical. Nobody knows what the rates are going to be in 20 in 26 but it's good to talk about. We know that the bond rate is going to be 4% in November. Don't know what the bond rate is going to be in November. 20. Six. If you take a look at different scenarios. maybe when we get to 26 and we issue long term bonds. we'll issue them at a rate less than 4% but nobody knows that. but I wanted to put the table in there just to show you. yes. we may pay interest expense. but maybe we won't. and nobody in this table knows for sure what that's going to be. So the last bucket would be. Michael McCall: you need to say. but by doing that and paying the interest only. that frees up the 800.000 Brian Keveny: Yeah. And one other important thing I didn't mention is that these projects during the time period between November 25 and June 26 they need funding right now. Some of the projects have funding in the form of bands. The majority don't do our allows the town to do advancing from the general fund. That basically means the general fund can transfer money to capital projects without approval at Tom meeting. It simply involves the Selectmen approving that and signing a form. It's a no interest loan from the general fund to the capital account. The money must come back to the general fund by June 30. So it's not like the general fund in the number we calculated was about 6 million. free cash is expected to be certified around 12 million. That's what we're projecting. So the way it would work is that after do our approves the town's free cash. the Select model would have approved to move 6 million into the capital count. That immediately brings our appropriation that we can do a Tom meeting to 6 million. Because we've restricted six we still have plenty of free cash to fund any projects that we want to do with town meeting. But remember. the money comes back to the general fund at June 30. It's not lost by the General Fund. and it doesn't affect the town. Towns have done this in the past. You can either do that or you can issue bands. So that was presented to the Selectmen as well as part of this option to move from bands to bonds. so we've gone over that with them. I went over with our bank. I talked to the one of the directors of dor because it's been a while since I did this. I just wanted to make sure I had my ducks in a row. and I I did it once before. And he says. All you do is you fill out the form. explain it to select men. everybody's on board. And you do it in the money. I say it comes back to the general fund. It is not lost money. It comes back to the general fund. So those are the three things that they need to happen. And lastly. the third one. even with these two. we still need cuts on the town of the school to balance a prop two and a half percent balance budget. It's these two projects alone. Based on these four project assumptions. will not bring in a budget under proc tool. Now the town of the school still need to do additional costs between three and 500.000 we think that's manageable. So that is a presentation you have the paperwork. Is a series of slides that we've included in here for you folks to this one I put in here. if you have time. this really maps out the first column where we stand. the agreements move from levy to excluded. how that affects only the do our calculation. And then we have in here the use of him. which actually affects expense. which brings us to our ongoing three to $500.000 problem. which is in the bottom right. And again. this is that incremental assumption on interest. I wanted to put in at least have a folks to take a look at it. So that's they have this slide in yet. because in the top right. there's brightest guys on the sun coming school. Unknown: The top right Brian Keveny: came from my believer. obviously. in the river. So I think I found the right slide. I see the rainbow. brightest guys in the cheap truck. That's our presentation. Carol Martin: Thank you. Brian. thank you. Michael. I want to just ask Aaron real quick. Are you short on time? Here? Are you till 710
Unknown: you can call until 710 Carol Martin: Okay. so we have to ask questions fast. because we got 15 minutes. and one of my board members has his art style at 730 which I'm started at six. So who would like to start the questions? Normally. we start at this level. but why don't Aaron. would you like to start the questions? Or would you like us to
Unknown: anybody from my board have questions?
Carol Martin: Would you say the 300 500.000 Unknown: cut? Is that Carol Martin: shared among the school. or is Brian Keveny: that each of we didn't help an allocation we just knew generally? You know. we have an ongoing problem that could be three to 500.000 it could be 600.000 Unknown: it's shared. Okay. I actually have a question about that number as well. Is that based on numbers from what fiscally in 26 you're cutting from that. or you're cutting from like a 4.55% over fiscal year 26 Brian Keveny: it's. it's based on the school budget in fiscal 27 Unknown: Okay. so like. what was kind of put out as a so what does that look like from a percentage Brian Keveny: we in the school but for 27 the school budget is up 5.5% Unknown: so. okay. yeah. okay. Brian Keveny: so we have a conservative number up there. And Christine is still. you know. as we know. she's relatively new to the district. just trying to get the schools up and running. So we have in there a 5.5 number. I just wanted to clarify where it was. We lost you a four point. I forget the number right under five. Under five. we have 5.5 Unknown: right now. We would. of course. try to get under five well cushion.
Michael McCall: although it uses the word cuts. There may be other ways to interpret that. as indicated before I didn't send out an email the department heads about a hiring freeze. As we have turnover. there may be some positions we choose not to fill so we wouldn't be spending that money. and we may postpone filling that until we get through FY 27 and know what our numbers are. So without truly cutting position. we don't fill it. We're realizing those savings to help us get through that that year. But there may be positions we just do need to eliminate. So it'd be a combination of things Brian Keveny: I would ask Dave to say again. the importance of deferring the Override to next year and getting past 27 you said. why is that important for the school to do that? You talked about that in the budget. Unknown: Sure. a couple of reasons. Brian. the certainty of planning. It's very hard to do a budget when we don't know what our revenue is going to be from an override. That is really hard to do. And when you start creating a budgets and B budgets and C budgets. the instability that it leads to. and I've certainly had to do that. and what you end up having to do is show the positions you're going to reduce. and think about excellent new teachers who will leave. And it just creates a lot of instability. That is the most important thing. Number two. obviously. in collective bargaining. to not have a sense when you're putting together a budget. where you are in terms of planning. So it creates certainty. both from a uncertainty. both from a financial and a human resource side. as opposed to certainty. I think that sums it up. Brian. yes. Carol Martin: I'm gonna see if the Select Board has any questions. Doug Levine: I've got two brief questions. Brian. so the first is. we're assuming a worst case scenario of a 1.8 and same million dollar short call. What is the range? If that's the worst case scenario? What is the best case scenario? If we have higher local receipts. higher state aid. how much does that fall? Well. it Brian Keveny: really would be the delta if health insurance came in less than than two digits. if it was. say. seven or eight. That is set in stone. Middlesex. we already have our assessment. so that's. that's a hard number. The only other thing would be. if the collective bargaining amounts come in less than we have in our projection. we have a number in there that we think is reasonable. If the if the collective bargaining came in less than that. that would bring the number down on the revenue side. reasonably on the state side. you can really expect more than 250.000 you can expect growth in the local receipts. But again. that's only about that's. that's not a material number to you know. two or 300.000 it's a good thing that we bring in more money in the local receipts. but to get. get from your $1.8 million down to a better case scenario. it's the jury still out there? Because we don't know what our new growth is going to be on the tax recap in December. which rolls into prop two and a half calculation. which then adjust all these numbers. stating number in January. in the health insurance so I can't really answer that. because those numbers would are key in bringing this problem about Doug Levine: I asked the question. though. because there there are two. I call them mechanisms. and that last slide. 700.000 800.000 and if we just passed one. it doesn't answer the mail correct. even if we had a best case scenario for a budget. Shortfall. Brian Keveny: If we had one of them proved right. we'd still be in a difficult situation. Budget. generally. Unknown: Doug The one thing I would add also Brian. I'm thinking this past year. there were significant swings in health insurance. depending on what plan you I mean. we were quite low. Think of the GIC. which was historically high. as you know. Doug. and so just given that swing. that's why you don't want to. you know. there's some uncertainty in that particular area. For sure. you don't know till January. Doug Levine: And then my other quick question. Brian was on the first slide in fiscal year 37 the budget swings by $10 million combined from the negative to the positive. and that's all as a result of us funding the retirement liability. And that's done. It's that many millions of dollars. Carol Martin: Yes. um. do you mind if I hop into because I have the same one? So this is interesting. There were a couple slides in here originally that talked about this. and you'll have to help me with the correct wording. Brian. but it's we pay a pension assessment every year. but then be for a number of reasons. which Brian can explain probably another day is a very long report. everyone in the communities in Middlesex retirement is being assessed by what they call it unfunded liability. and waylands is 58 million correct. which we're paying out over these 10 years. Brian Keveny: You hit me with these numbers. I have to go back and check essentially. it's substantial. I think. I think it's 58 to 60 million. Carol Martin: So that's really and those slides were in here. So when you asked me. I saw what's coming up. I didn't see it. But. um. I would really like if Doug doesn't mind if I hop in on his question too. I really. I had sent you a question. I'd like to know what's our unfunded liability for the this amount we have to pay this additional for 27 and then 27 to 30 just out of care. Brian Keveny: We don't we only have that. We only get from two years. So we have from Middlesex 26 and 27 Okay. so post that on their website. They write the unfunded liability on 27 to 60.000.058 Carol Martin: to 60 minutes. Do we have to pay in 27 to what is it? Two additional million? Brian Keveny: I have that hard number anyway. It's it's in my Unknown: calculation. every two years.
Carol Martin: So we pay the regular Brian Keveny: ones. 7 million. We pay some. I'm sorry. 7 million. and Carol Martin: change the 27 Yeah. but that. Inc. what's the what's the amount in blue? Because that's the additional amount. Brian Keveny: The amount in blue is the levy debt related to the DPW. Carol Martin: Yeah. No on this slide. yeah. see that we have in the screen? All right? I think what I like that number? I can get that. I think that sounds like you would like that as well. What is that amount? I think it was in the prior version. It showed the pension and the pension liability. and that's in the operating budget. correct? Yes. the liability. yeah. So I'd like to know Unknown: Yes. Christine clarification that it is based on the actuarial study that is posted on the Middlesex County website. They dictate the amount that we have to pay. irregardless of what our unfurling liability is. They identify because they have adjusted their payment schedule. So that number changes every actuarial period. and so we know what we have right now and what the payment will be for 26 and 27 then it will go through another cycle of the actuarial and they will recalculate our unfunded liability amount. So that's a changing. moving target. So we don't know that. Doug Levine: but it has to end in fiscal year 37 that's what's Unknown: that's what they say. Or the town's fully funded portion. Brian Keveny: Okay. state may have mandated them all pension funds to be fully funded by 2036 some are already. you know. 80. 90% funded. Middlesex right now is a 50% fund. So right now. as we sit here. we're between 50 and 60% fully funded in 10 years. that that number needs to go to 100% Fund. and the only way to get there. Brian Oh Hurley. he did a nice job. I've taken the fiscal 26 and 27 assessments that we have. and actually developing an amortization out to that which runs. and we have that number embedded. So every two years. like Carol. like Christine. said. We get that assessment. but they we've got a long way to go from 50 to 100 in a very short period. Carol Martin: So my question is. that's an operating expense. right? But I'd like to know the dollar amount of that for 27 I think that's the number you and I are looking for. Maybe you can send that to us. right? I don't want to monopolize all the time. I'm going to go with care to there are. although they haven't called to order. there are members of the Finance Committee who speak as individuals. like just for. So April or Pam. Unknown: yeah. so I'll just put a an exclamation point on the overall presentation. We've got financial challenges in front of this. the town. It would be great to get through fiscal year 27 without having to go to an override process. but we've got a lot of education to do. to help the entire town community. to really understand our financial circumstances. identify all the efficiencies that we can and really take steps to sort of implement those efficiencies and communicate it. because we're going to have overrides in the future. It's just right now doesn't feel like the right time to try and put one through. especially if there's levers in front of us that we can all get behind to do the bands and do the debt reclassification. So I'm strong. individually. strong. supportive of the overall plan here. and I don't have any other questions at this time. Carol Martin: Okay. so because we're speaking as as individual residents. would you like to give your address for Unknown: the Oh yeah. seven deer run Wayland. Thank you. And we're Carol Martin: looking for questions so April or Pam. Miss Kelsi. do you have one? Okay? And Bill. yes. I know I forgot to respond. I went that way. Sorry. Sorry. let's see
Brian Keveny: so the the assessment of a 27 is 7.3 million. Unknown: Middlesex County retirement Brian Keveny: 7.3 million. We already had the unfunded liability Carol Martin: portion is 6966
Unknown: 27 this is part of the actuarial study. Yes. she wants to know. what's the difference year over year? Is that what you're asking? No. yes. they don't give it to you that way career. But the amount. the assessment that we will be including in the FY 27 is 7.3 million. right for the middle sense. county. what it was for FY 26 was 6.8 million. Carol Martin: There you go. 6.8 so it's 500.000 Brian Keveny: and for another day. we talked about doing a pension obligation bond. but that's. that's another night's discussion to address the Middlesex issue. Carol Martin: Mr. Whitney. I'm sorry. Brian. the 802.000 Unknown: for the bands. is that net of the 100? Yes. an interest. okay? William Whitney: And what happens if we do the issue the bands in lieu of 8 million in bonds. and we. and we there is an unsuccessful vote on the reclassification of the TPW facility type. Brian Keveny: Yeah. that's a good question. because do we proceed with just winning the bands and the bonds and bringing down the budget in 27 by 800 we wreck even we recognize as a group that. you know. we still have to make a cut of over a million dollars. and that would be very challenging. A lot of things would have to break our way. So that's the it's sort of like. which do you want to pick? Do you want to just if we don't get involved? Do we just call it a day and ask for an override because the cuts will be just too insurmountable? Or do we take the 800.000 savings and deal with a million dollar problem? That's the information we have at this point in the budget development. Unknown: So and you mentioned a November election. Brian Keveny: well. you would have called ballot question Unknown: right in November. in November. before November. or November. which is kind of a month away. yeah. 3030. we think there is sufficient time to educate the electorate as to the importance of voting For this thing in a month would be a challenge. Doug Levine: That's the latest you can have in the election. at Michael McCall: least 35 days from when it's 35 days from when the Select Board calls the election. The clerk actually asked for 45 days. And if you go back. and I was looking at today with Madam Chair. the policy is when. as we have presented a request for the board to consider a reclassification the debt under Proposition two and a half in your policy. we have to request a presentation or opinion from the FinCom. and they have to Give it to the board and you. according to policy. cannot vote to have the election until one week after that. It has to be one week. But there is a timeline so well. Unknown: a question. I guess. for the elected officials here. which is. how do we feel about taking this to the voters in a month? The. For 45 days. can kind of sufficiently robust public information campaign be developed and get the word Michael McCall: out another community in March. we put on a debt exclusion for a fire station. They voted to put it on the ballot. I think. in March. and then managed to get it to pass. Interesting you're looking about. because Unknown: this is. this is much more esoteric. I think this is not saying we need a fire station. This is. we've issued the debt. We've been paying it all along. We want to pay it out of a different pocket and why is that a good idea? Michael McCall: All we can do is an informational campaign. We are limited under Proposition two and a half. We we the town staff cannot. I'm not Unknown: suggesting there would be an advocacy campaign per se by but individuals can speak to their neighbors. can have coffees. can have Q and A's put together. and that takes time and organization understand. Doug Levine: So that goes back to the question. why do you have to have this election November? Can you have it in December or January? What is the latest that we can have it to allow for more time for Carol Martin: education? Hey. it's April. but we don't want to do that. What can we do Doug Levine: it in January? Giving us several months? I Brian Keveny: guess that's a question for Michael and the town clerk. If they didn't want to do it in November. could they do it in January? But then keep in mind. we're right in the middle of budget
Unknown: development to to the question I had. so there seems to be a lot of discussion of having the bands approved as soon as possible. What is that rush coming from? Brian Keveny: It's coming from. We're doing a movies call on October 7. Bank is finished our official statement and ready to go to bidders in early November. October. so the states and the stage has been set town to borrow $16 million in November. So we've done all the paperwork we've gone through one council. all those three groups are now looking at us and saying. Okay. we're ready to go. What is Wayland doing? So we really need a decision no later than your next meeting on September 29 on the bands. because I have to inform the bank what we don't have asked him. Can I have a two. three week delay? And that's not realistic. is everything on your side is in the queue. Unknown: So if that. if that happens. so we've spent 140.000 without knowing whether the debt would be reclassified. so kind of at risk. right?
Brian Keveny: Well. you go back to the sensitivity analysis. and it's better in a year from that. That's like you can speculate on that Carol Martin: Susan for one second. I just want to make sure and were you. were you finished? And then I'm not Unknown: really. because I want to understand this a little better. So what you're essentially saying is that we're all set up to do the bands. and if we miss this window. then. and they're all essentially saying. What's going on here. and if we miss the window. then we have to essentially start over. Brian Keveny: No. um. no. So we're all set to issue $60 million in bonds. Yes. the bank knows that we're looking at this option. We're definitely going to issue 8 million in bonds. That's a surety with the water department. November. the options are issue $16 million in bonds. or issue $8 million in bonds. an issue with a balance in bands. which is a short term loan. Okay? Carol Martin: And we also have. I did send out a meeting up to the boards. and a couple meetings ago. We also have some bands that have to be paid off by November. So this Brian Keveny: expiring? Carol Martin: Are they having the meeting in I think it's October 7. It takes a couple weeks to do the paperwork so they can issue the bands in time. so that we can take care of the ones that need to be reissued and a left. so that decision we have to make by the 29th so that Brian and hilltop can proceed. Period. how's that proceed? Period. sorry.
Um. meeting. Because any anybody from the school committee? Okay. we all said. I'm sorry.
Unknown: Please let me know. I also think it's easier to explain. I'm sorry. I think it's easier to explain the fact that.
Like financially. the DPW facility. more than likely should have been excluded from the levy at the jump. and it's more of an appropriate reclassification for that than anything else. That's an easier lift to me than to ask people to approve. you know. be it maybe a smaller one year override or and then knowing that the next year you're going to approve another larger. three year potential override amount. and that there's. there'll be more certainty around collective bargaining. etc. when we come to them for like an ask on an override versus. let's do a little dribble here. and then we'll do another bigger one in a year.
Carol Martin: I will tell you. I think I mentioned this. You might have been at that meeting. I actually was on the Finance Committee when that project was recommended for debt exclusion to the Select Board. So we went before we did the presentation. as we will ask this current finance committee to make presentations per code. I guess there was policy to the Select regarding debt exclusion on the ballot. ballot questions and the select what at the time. felt that we had an a lot of unused levy capacity. and they wanted to reduce the unused levy capacity. I believe. I'm sure this will come out as we go through this process. Should we go that path? They wanted us. the town. to make more mindful decisions about budgeting. and so they use the 12 million. 11 million. whatever it was of that levy capacity. okay. Brian. Will you hand them? Can you just start it? Because it was you just came in February and I had just stopped. yeah. so I think that was the reasoning of it. And I'm sure that when this. if we go that route. that will. that will be part of the conversations. Well. be revisited. So. okay. yes. yes. Unknown: I was just gonna say we kind of need to. We don't Carol Martin: know you guys got a problem. Yeah. anyway. so you don't need to adjourn or anything. right? No. we'll just start there. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you everybody. Presentation. Appreciate it. Thanks. Michael and I'm
Unknown: going to drop as well. Carol. Carol Martin: thank you. Thank you. April. and I think Pam left as well. Hi. Anne. all right. Exit. Would it be appropriate for me to ask some Unknown: questions the voters see seeing on the ballot in November. if it can be get. if it can get on the ballot by then. are they just being asked to reclassify DEP talk to another Yes. being asked anything about the band? No. no. no. that seemed like such a hard asset. We're just going to fund it from a different pot. Michael McCall: Yes. so it moves it into a different pot for the calculation of your levy capacity. Unknown: Got it. I think that was in the paper. the Michael McCall: paper. and we would work with town council that you would be shell the voters to win. and. you know. reclassify the existing debt. and we'd give the amount from levy to excluded debt. Carol Martin: Thank you. right. We only have about 10 minutes left. And the one I guess I'm going to ask thanks for it as if you would like us
Michael McCall: to go to number four. Yes. considerably. Have the updated. but I believe number four is one. Carol Martin: although we have not made any decisions on either of these. and I am going to ask when we get to the next one. if the sense of the board is to wait until all five of us are present on the 30th to take These 29th so for Mr. But we've also been asked to consider asking the finance committee to make a recommendation to us on the 29th regarding the classifying of the levy debt to excluded because. as I mentioned just a few minutes ago. that's part of the process that we have if we're considering a debt exclusion ballot question. We then request a presentation from the finance committee. so then they would have an opportunity to vote on it on the 29th and then they would probably come in on the sixth to make the presentation. because they have to make a presentation to us. I believe. on ballot on debt exclusion. So. I don't know what the success. but it is a Michael McCall: like they may be meeting the 29th maybe they make it earlier. and they come in that. I don't know how it will work. I think that'd be up to Mr. Unknown: Judy's. All right. Well. all right. I'd like to offer motion to for the Select Board to request that the Finance Committee make a recommendation and give a presentation to the board regarding the request. request by the levy debt to excluded debt for the Department of Public Works facility at 66 River Road. Thank you. Carol Martin: Any further discussion? Okay. so let's have a roll call. Unknown: and that's pursuant to the board's proposition to invest policy in the Select Board meeting. just for Carol Martin: and that's what you said in your motion. that it was pursuant to the boards two and a half the Doug Levine: boards two and a half. Unknown: I think that's superfluous. but accept the friendly amendment. Feel better. All right. that was not part of my motion. All right. then I'm going Carol Martin: to Anne. yes. Doug. yes. Bill. yes. Carol. yes. that so that motion passes four zero. So Mr. Manager. if he would be so kind as to draft a memo to do it. That's a letter floating around. But I thought that was a little more formal than we need here. because we aren't actually. we haven't. We've kind of. yeah. so do you want me to send it on? We can talk. We'll talk about it. All right. that sounds like a plan. I know that Mr. Levine has a hard stop here shortly. and I did want to ask before we we can discuss any of these that are on the table. if you want to do that. But I also want to ask if we. if. again. if. what's the sense of the board? Should we wait until Tom is also present and on the 29th before we consider votes. Doug Levine: The 29th is acceptable. according to Brian. for approval. if we so approve for the bonds to Vance. right? And on the other one. I still don't understand when that would have to be actually decided. Michael McCall: I think as soon as practical. when we first flipped the memo and introduced this formally to the board. we were in August. And the theme the thought process. then. was. most people have it in their minds. They come in in the first week. the first Tuesday of November. So the thought was. shoot for that date. Can you go later in November. even to early December? I'm sure we could do that and leave 60 some odd days or more for some type of informational campaign. Is Mr. Kevin. He said. the closer we get to our requirements under the code to recommend a budget to this body and then hand over to the FinCom. we need to have some decision. because then we would be looking at going through the same process of requesting an operational override and then having to come Back and having to have the board ask the FinCom make a presentation go through that. and you'd be then looking at the spring annual election. so that you would have time to campaign for an operational and if we didn't get the votes to put it on the ballot or something. then the worst case scenario. I guess. is that whatever happens with the bands happens. and then you're looking at some significant cuts across the board. That's always the last resort. And my philosophy is town manager is I'm supposed to present every option to you folks and then follow through on whatever. however the chips may fall. as Mr. Whitney alluded. even if we were to put the question on. it still may fall. but. you know. it could fail. and then we would then either have to see. you know. if we could make some adjustments. and if we couldn't. we may have to come back and then ask this board to consider an operational over Doug Levine: is there some minimum threshold of votes that you need for turnout? Because I imagine turnout will be pretty low on this one question. I believe Michael McCall: that it is just a simple majority of the people that turn out that day. I do have a link to proposition two and a half elections. It's a primer. and it does go over some of this in the Q and A. I believe. So I can circulate that to the board Doug Levine: if you haven't. I think we should probably have substantive discussions about both of these on the 29th Unknown: on the agenda already. Doug Levine: It's that agenda planning. Carol Martin: But we. we've we. our intent was to finalize it tomorrow based on if we needed some other items. you know that came from this meeting. So and are you okay here? Because I think we're just about ready to wrap up. unless you have something else you want to add. or I. Unknown: No. I am. I'm actually doing a lot of absorbing of all of it so. Carol Martin: so I think you missed it earlier. because I not should be online. I do want to say it again. I thank you all very much for coming on such short notice. and particularly this particular week. appreciate it tremendously. And so. having said that I would Doug Levine: entertain and move that we adjourn the Select Board at 727.
Carol Martin: and then Anne. yes. no. yes and call. Thank you. Kelsi. thank you.
Unknown: Okay. I would just note that the today's edition of the central register has the request. request information with respect to the property at 212 Cochituate road that has been put together by the 212 Cochituate road Advisory Committee seeking responses. Finally. later than October 16. the notion being to just alert experienced developers and service providers of housing for people with disabilities to get a sense of what they would propose For the site. the committee would then review that. I think. help inform recommendations that would be made to this board in the spring. after which the Board may wish to issue an RFP more specific. Carol Martin: that property. Thank you. Um. Mr. McCall. did you have any announcements? Michael McCall: Nothing specific. Madam Chair. other than to remind people. week from this Saturday will be our Wayland festival. I encourage people to check out on the website. Be held over at Town Center. and it will be a combination of the arts Wayland festival and multicultural festival. as well as touch a truck events. So it should be a good time. And it's my understanding for Mr. Reynolds. it is rain or shock. Carol Martin: I was also going to speak to that and but one thing that I'm not sure I was able to ascertain was what time is the parade. the 258 parade. I saw different times. Time was like 10 to four or something. I didn't tend to six and stuff six. But does anybody know what time the parade is running those things? Okay. well. guess what? Maybe we'll find out and announce that on Monday night as well. So anybody else have any announcements? Okay? So. So we are running about five minutes ahead. and I wanted to. I'll move down to number five in the path of here. but I need Mike to come back and do this agenda item. So do you think if you have to leave me. or Would you. could you talk about policy Michael McCall: school committee called. They were nearly and they thought we may be meeting up there. but I said the hybrid was down here. so they're on their way down. Carol Martin: Okay. so within five minutes. and we were wondering if you wanted to speak to number five. discuss review and potential vote to amend the town of Wayland non union. really sickly policy. which is in our packet.
Michael McCall: So what I am asking the board's approval here is for a single amendment. not a complete rewrite of the policy. So last spring. a town meeting. we repealed the bulk of chapter 43 which was our former personnel board bylaws. we repealed some language. we put in new language. and one of the things was that. after reviewing this. it appeared we had policy inside the bylaws. so we chose to remove the policy. and the intent was to integrate it back in and update our policies and put them on the website. Currently. our website is showing a an older policy on vacation buy back from the year 2000 there was a vote from the personnel board and an amendment to the bylaw in 2016 changing the numbers. And the intent was that we would put that back in the policy. It hadn't yet happened. And we had some people approach retirement that would some under that the 20 years of service and one over 20 years of service. speaking with town council to ensure we weren't violating any policy. And now that we don't have the bylaw. they recommended that I have the board make this one amendment with the understanding that we will go back with the you know. consult with the personnel board HR and update the overall policy. But because I have people before me right now who are in the process of going through retirement. we want to ensure that we don't treat anybody unfairly. and would like to have this amendment. I have received some feedback online from some folks that said that other items need to be changed. We are aware of that. but for the purposes of handling the individual or individuals before us. we just need this minor and
Carol Martin: more just one second. All right. any questions from the board. what we're trying to accomplish here we went to the next we'll be trying to switch one actually. hold on with us. Yeah. Did everybody understand what Michael was saying? Does anybody else have any questions on what's trying to accomplish here? So we're really not approving the policy. We're just making a couple amendments. and so maybe on the bottom it would just say a Select Board amendment. September. 2425 it's crossed out. and then the amounts have changed. right? Michael. just. we're just. Michael McCall: we're putting the the lines from the 2016 bylaw into the policy. and we'll display it on the website and then follow it so that we've treated the retirees fairly that we're going through the process. When this happened again. this I did consult town council about how to deal with this. We thought this was a fair and equitable solution. please. Unknown: I think this is fine. You did get an email. however. that pointed out in the fifth paragraph that presently reads. When a permanent employee retires or dies. his or her beneficiary shall receive so if the permanent employee retires but does not die. presumably. he or she would receive pay equal and likewise. if the permanent employee dies. So I might just change the language slightly to reflect that correction. Michael McCall: Am I to interpret that if you were to pass this as Mr. What you would like that you would leave me to craft that language with Council. to clear that up. Is that what you're suggesting. Unknown: sure. or I can propose language. but I think if we could authorize you to work with council. To address that and to I would move that we would approve this change subject to that correction. which we had asked the manager to make. in consultation with Tom Council. Carol Martin: Okay. great. Thank you. So now in discussion. are there any other questions from all the board members? Doug Levine: I just noted that we received an email from the personnel board. but she had mentioned that she connected with you on the phone Carol Martin: before I had read the packet. which I clearly stated. but and I have Michael and I have had a couple conversations about this. and I think he has explained that he will this was an oversight initially. We're just correcting something so the policies in place and that he will. uh. adjust the language and go back to personnel board. right like me. Michael McCall: we will try and update the most recent version to put this in there. in I can consult with Miss. She believe afterwards from the personnel board would put the last policy was that maybe one going back to 2016 the 2016 language does appear one place in the website. and then there is a link to an older policy. So we have to clear that up same time. So this Carol Martin: actually is an issue we've brought up on other things. and that as we are hoping. we go forward. and Michael actually is just going to indulge me for a second. It's actually got a plan in place I'm hoping to implement where we actually end up starting to update our website. So this kind of issue. where things are in two and three places. will go away. All right. If there's not any further discussion. I'm going to have a vote. We have to be roll call. because Ian's persist. I mean. so may I ask that was Bill and Dave. okay? Bill. yes. yes. Dan. yes. Thank you. And Carol. Yes. Motion passes four zero. Michael. thank you. Madam Chair. Okay. our pleasure. So we now we'd like to do is have a turn our attention to the main purpose for tonight's meeting. and it is. I want to thank the board for coming in at such short notice. and I do apologize that we weren't able to get the full five. full five members. but we've got four of us. so thank you very much. So we didn't have a joint meeting. Finance Committee and the school committee. as I mentioned earlier. to discuss the FY 27 budget task for strategies. including. but not limited to recommendations regarding financing River Road and a borrowing and DEP plan. Doesn't say it on the agenda. but we are inviting Mr. Kevin me to join us. who will make the give us a slide presentation. But before you do that. I want to recognize the school committee. and in particular the chair Miss Gibbons and beyond. call to order. Or do you need to call to order? We're all set. You're all set. I want to mention there's a chair here. If there's a school committee member or somebody wants to sit over here. Dr. bless. there's one next to me. You want to anybody wants to move up from the school committee. that's fine. The slide deck. I believe. is hard copies there. although it's going to be up on the screen. And for the Finance Committee. I believe they don't have a quorum. but I want to recognize Phil Judy seems to chair him. and so method. and am I good for Unknown: that? Yes. thank you. Carol. Carol Martin: Thank you appreciate it. and think then we're good. So Brian. we normally. as I mentioned early in the when we put together the slide deck that we ordinarily like to have a few slides and have more time for discussion. Very every full slide. DEP. excuse me. yes. since usually when there is a school committee meeting. people have like. two minutes public speaking. This is a Select Board meeting. and we've had public comment already. So am I okay? Yeah. we have it on the agenda for after this portion of our meeting. Unknown: This after this up there. we'll have public comment. That's fine. just asking. Carol Martin: Okay. so I want to ask the board. do we would. It's 21 slides. and we do. Everyone know watching that the slide deck was changed slightly. and I think the current one is version six is going is in the supplemental packet that came out today. So if you're trying to follow along. that's what. yeah. what is the board's pleasure? Do we? Do we want Ryan to run through the whole deck? Or do we would like him to Unknown: anticipate the presentation I'll probably get through this in 12 minutes. Would you like him to stop as I go Bill much more discussion about the topic. Carol Martin: All right? The floor is yours. Brian. I figure out where
Michael McCall: Madam Chair. if I may. I'd just like to think of some introductory remarks. First of all. I want to thank you the members of the board. the school committee. the Finance Committee. the audience at home. as well as the other members of the community here this evening. as you know. Mr. Kevin and I have been working hard over the last couple of years to deliver balanced budgets to the community within our current Levy. The last few years through level budgeting. and last year. working in collaboration with Dr Fleischman. we were able to make some cuts in the end. which ended in some reductions in staff. and we delivered a balanced budget in both FY 25 and FY 26 due to an unexpected down Tom in our health insurance numbers. we wound up with some excess levy capacity at the end of last year. and Mr. Kevin and I felt that we might be able to go one more year without having to come to the community for an override. And we feel we've been responsible and good stewards with the community. and we've. I've instituted a hiring freeze. We again working with Dr Fleischman. we tried to be responsible with our budgeting. and as we have in the last two years. we put together a budget Working Group shortly after the end of the fiscal year. many of those members are here this evening. Madam Chair. as you know. you've been part of this group. Mr. Kemeny. me. We've had Dr Fleischman. as well as his business manager. Christine Patterson. We've had Phil judici from the finance committee. We've had representatives from the school community. including Aaron Mueller and Aaron Givens. the chair who's here. We've had past members of boards. including Kathy Steinberg and Brian he and what we set out to do is to see where we would be for FY 27 starting some modeling. Mr. Kevin worked with a lot of the department heads to get some preliminary numbers. and from the outset. it started to look like we were going to have a more challenging year than we had in the past. We use some of our worst case scenario numbers. putting in 12% for health care. although we had a better year last year. we put in some numbers. get conservative estimates for state aid. and when we came down to it. it appears that we may have a $1.8 million shortfall. after which we set out to look at some strategies which we have shared with the board. We have two different strategies of helping to close that gap. One. converting some existing levy debt to excluded debt in the other some refinancing of our bond anticipation notes and bombing of some of our debt. I will say that the town has not had to have an operating override in over 10 years. We have to go back to 2013 and some of the reasons we have been fortunate is we had some new growth all the oxbow rivers edge by another name. We also were a foundation aid community for a period of time. so that helped us with our state aid but we've had some changes since then. We haven't experienced the new growth that we have had in recent years. We went back to being a minimum aid community. and we haven't really had the fortune of the new growth. as I said. but that's been compounded by dramatic increases in some of our non discretionary expenses. such as our health care. our pension. our OPEB. which is Other Post Employment Benefits for our retirees. So we've had this perfect storm of events that has unfortunately led us to eating into our levy capacity. And for those who don't know. we're allowed to raise our taxes each year under Proposition two and a half up to our levy capacity and over time. without the new growth increasing two and a half percent. we've come to the point where we've hit that. that threshold where we can't raise taxes without looking at some of these other strategies. Unless we have some change in our new growth. changes in state aid. we foresee this to be a potential problem for the next few years. And so as we work with this budget task force or budget working group. we felt prudent to come before the three boards explain where we are and what our financial picture looks like for the next couple of years. And so momentarily. I will turn this over to Mr. Kevin for further discussion and to walk you through these slides. But this is a projection. It doesn't mean it's certain that it will go this way. It could break our way some years. some years it could go the other way. but we have to start acting now. I've had a lot of. Conversations with the budget working group as well as individuals on that about what we can do. and we want to work together with the community. with this particular group. and possibly create a task force to look at what we will need to do if we have to call for an operating override. And the strategy that we have worked on Mr. Kevin and I. is that we would like to avoid an operating override this coming fiscal year for a multitude of reasons. One. all of us are going into collective bargaining. It would really help us with our numbers if we could settle our contracts and know what we need to ask from the community. Two. we may be looking for a debt exclusion next year to do some of the repairs on this building. Three. as many of you know. we're facing a potential $38.5 million project to join the MWRA to deal with the PFAS in our water. So there are reasons why we think it would be beneficial for us to get through this year. focus on those other large financial tasks. and then put together a thoughtful proposal for the community. which may be a one to three year override. so that we can work on other strategies down the road. looking at how we can encourage new growth. taxable new growth. because a lot of people see growth in the town. but some of the large projects come before us. nonprofits. some of the schools and the religious institutions. how we can better manage budgets. how we can take advantage of technology and other ways to generate revenue. We've already tried some under the leadership of the board. as well as Mr. Kevin and my staff. looking back at our licenses and fees. We also have some new staff that have come on in facilities and IT and we want to look at how we are doing our purchasing. a closer eye on some of our large software contracts. So there are things that we we can do to help minimize these but we want to get through this upcoming fiscal year first. So on that note. I will hand it over to Mr. Kemeny to walk you through the presentation. which has been the culmination of the work so far over the summer. looking at these strategies and the FY 27 Unknown: budget. Mr. Kemeny. good evening. Brian Keveny: The presentation tonight really is to the efforts of this working group that we put together. We even met this morning. and we find this project without everybody chipping in that Mike just alluded to this project. this presentation. I wouldn't have been brought to be so I'm going to go through the slides. Stop me with any questions. Sometimes I go through this and I don't get questions. But if you're confused with something or want clarity. please just ask. So the very first slide is really our group's intent to set to show the status of Wayland financially. Now let me explain what this graph is saying. On the far left hand side. you see the stacks in black. Those relate to fiscal 23 to 26 where we had surplus levy starting in fiscal 27 through fiscal 36 you see red negatives on the bottom of the red. you see blue that relates to the DPW debt service that's funded by levy debt. On the very far right. you see the black going up back into the black. That means that the Middlesex retirement appropriation is expected to be fully funded. So we are expecting Middlesex appropriation to fall off the budget in fiscal 37 so this graph here is trying to display exactly what Wayland is facing in the future. I know we here to talk about fiscal 27 but this is really the real issue that is going on. Carol Martin: Are we successful signed out. Do we have to stop?
Like clockwork. it happens every time I think Unknown: what he's doing is he's starting the other end of the building.
Zoom Zoom is working fine. If that helps Brian Keveny: you see it. okay. yes. hopefully you can Unknown: see the screen. Well. yes. I can. Okay. so. so let's. let's keep Brian Keveny: So this graph is an effort to show folks exactly the condition of the town. We're heading into years of structural deficits where expenses are exceeding revenues.
Carol Martin: Kelly. this. since you can't see that. there's some hard copy over here if you want. Sorry. Brian Keveny: Brian. so. Uh. also you see in fiscal 27 it's the smallest deficit. That's what we're here to talk about tonight with the Selectmen. To have two options in front of them. Michael described before to alleviate an override 27 but you can clearly see. in fiscal 28 through 2636 it's going to be impossible to fund a budget without overrides. We simply don't have revenue streams coming in with new growth. state aid. local receipts to offset the growth and expenses. So structurally. we have to come up with solutions that are going to solve the problem in the next 10 years. As Michael said. our hope was to get past 27 and then develop a plan to develop structural improvements to our structural deficit. This graph here is the efforts of the group to show in one screen exactly where we stand. and this affects the town of school and the unclassified budgets. This graph was developed by projecting out expected increases in expenses on the town budget. the school budget. unclassified. We did projections on the prop two and a half. and we looked at the new growth areas. So all these bar graphs really relate to numbers that we're going to get into a little bit later on the screen. But this was our best effort to show the folks what we're really looking at. What we're really looking at here is beyond 27 we're looking at really to 36 to come up with solutions. though. we don't have to go back to the town every single year for overrides. whether that's a single override or a monthly year. So that's really the financial condition of the town. So any questions on this graph?
So here is a bullet point of some of the things that are affecting the town. and I go through them. Wayland is one of 14 communities in Massachusetts that Moody's has rated as a triple A community. We have strong financial disciplines. and we continue to spend at or below annual budgets. meaning that we don't fully expend our budgets. we return unspent appropriations in the form of free cash. so we're able to find. for the most part. capital. So don't. we don't fully expend all of our appropriations. we continue to need to fund on unfunded pension liabilities. As I say. middle such retirement funding is still 10 years away. So we're expected to be fully funded to 2000 at 2036 however. in the past. Wayland used to get a 3% increase in the assessment. then a six. and that was historically how it went. 3636. they've changed that now to six and nine and a half. and six and nine and a half. So our appropriations. from now until it's fully funded. will be at a greater percent than what we've seen previously. So Middlesex wants to be fully funded in 36 and the only way to do that is increase the assessments that all the member communities are going to pay. We're minimal. We have minimal commercial sector where 95% of the town revenue is dependent on residential tax. Now that residential tax figure. if you compare that to peer towns. Wayland is one of the highest. So on tax recap. we have residential tax. commercial. industrial and personal property. Our residential number is at the high end in comparison to our pier towns. I relatively have a high tax rate compared to peer towns. albeit a medium tax bill. So our average tax bill is more comparable with our peer towns. We have uncertain state support. and we have federal challenges that were apparently unknown at this point. We have uncertain employee costs with Tom school labor unions still unfilled. and we still have the fire contract that's not been settled. which goes back for 2425 and 26 so Michael is currently working on the labor contracts. and they all expire at the end of this fiscal year. Health care expenditures are uniquely uncertain with one time savings taken in fiscal 26 and again. here's another one of our largest budgets that typically runs 10. 10 million. 9 million. Unexpectedly last year we got an increase of less than 3% the year before we got a 10% so this thing is very volatile in our budget. In our projections. we're counting 12% it may be a conservative number. maybe too high. but given what we've seen in the past. we're currently carrying a 12% number. That number is not going to be trued up until February. But for now. purposes of building our budget. we're going to maintain we also have a pending substantial $38 million investment with the MWRA that affects everybody's tax bill in the town. whether it's in water bill. whether he paying taxes you're paying water bills. Fact. the matter is. it affects the family's finances. So if we move to the next file. any questions on that. sorry. I'm going to go through. Is estimated revenue. We're going to go through the 10 year financial forecast. We're going to talk about the fiscal 27 budget forecast. and we've included a lot of the slides that we're going to present tonight in appendix. I'm not going to go through the details of a one of them. however. it depends upon the group's preview. If we want to talk about some we will. but I'm going to go through the slides. allude to the appendix. If you have questions on there. we're certainly happy to answer them. So the general fund revenue really comes from these areas. Here it is real estate and personal property tax. state aid. local receipts. And we get transfers from enterprise funds and revolving funds. and every once in a while we get a grant. It's one time revenue that we use to either allocate towards a capital project or some other endeavor. Those are two and five between this next slide here is a slide I've used for probably over five years running. Now it seems to work well. so let me just show you what the intent here is. on the left hand side is really the prop two and a half calculation. It really starts with last year's priority. a number which was 89 point 3 million. To that you add the standard two and a half percent prop two and a half increase. new growth is highlighted in yellow at 400.000 for this reason. in our original forecast. we were carrying well over $500.000 for new growth because we got it last year. The assessor has come back and said that that trend now is around 400.000 so we originally started our budget group in July. we were carrying over 500 we've now brought that down to 400 we'll get into new growth in a bit. But that's an important barometer. because new growth goes into the prop two and a half calculation. As you bring in new growth. it increases your ability to raise the overall prop two and a half max limit. And we'll get into that a bit. So the next highlighting one is important. It's the annual Max levy limit. It's at 96 point 2 million. That's the number we're projecting. Is the most amount of money Wayland can raise in fiscal 27 tax recap is 96 point 2 million. State aid is 99.5 historical. we've always gotten additional state aid. It hasn't been a year where it went back or we didn't get anything at all. Every single year. we get additional state aid. mostly that's in the form of chapter 70 reimbursement. There is a appendix in the back. if you want to take a look at the trend. But in our forecast. we're projecting state aid will increase about $250.000 a year. We don't want to be too optimistic on that and put in too much. and then stay come back and keep us at a more level amount. so we're conservative on that one. The next one is. is local receipts. The number in there is 6.1 that that's a good story. A couple last year. the town. along with the Selectmen. put in increases on a lot of the fees that the Tom town is sold. and we're seeing the higher volume come in. So that's a growth area for the town. However. every time I get to the tax recap with Dor. they only let me go up amount at an amount that's reasonably above what we actually brought in the year before. I can't go to dor and say I want a 10% increase on Luke receipts. The only way that's going to happen is if I can prove I had that in the prior year. So they only want to take last year's actual which will be fiscal 26 and only let us go up about two and a half percent. That's why it's important to have a very good fiscal 26 that's why we put in the rate increases. we've had good growth of multi vehicle. The last couple of years. We've had new growth. or not growth. but we've had good results from an investment income. That's for the most part. because we've had a borrowing of the COA of $11 million and as that project was being built. we put a lot of that money into investment vehicles to income. We're not going to have that kind of revenue going forward. because we're simply not going to have that kind of money laying around in a bond. So that brings us to a total. Total is. sorry. we got 1.4 million. but transfer some of the funds. you know. we appropriate about 2.5 million of free cash. So we're looking at about 115.000.000.9 Unknown: in total Brian Keveny: ability to fund budgets in 27 new growth. This is a information dor the Wayland Post ran this. I believe. a week ago. or maybe a few weeks ago in the paper. On the left hand side. it shows that Wayland was ranked 312 in new growth. Now. the metric here is they take new growth as a percentage a priority. so they get a level playing field with all the different communities. Every community is not the same. You know. Wayland is not the same as Wakefield or Quincy. So the. The barometer to level everything is that new growth as a percentage of prior levy the willow rack ranks 312. out of 365 on the right hand side. in comparison to AAA. Towns were ranked last. Cambridge is. you know. approaching over so they're Cambridge. for example. their new growth is 3% of the prior we all know Cambridge has a lot of industry and new growth. but hopefully this metric kind of levels things if you take a look at it. So what is comparable? You could probably take a look at Weston. like. what is more comparable to Wayland? Weston? Maybe Cronkite. probably not. Brookline. maybe Winchester. I wouldn't say Belmont. So when you look at the AAA communities. and when Moody's raised these because of certain metrics as well. they don't rate Wayland is AAA community because of its new growth. They don't do that. However. if you want to compare Wayland comparison to our other AAA towns. That's one metric. You can use any questions on that. So here's the local receipts. I talked about it briefly. I wanted to keep this as a slide. On the left hand side. you see the different areas of local receipts. Mostly that's right in motor vehicle. Motor vehicle drives the bus on local receipts. just like in state aid. Chapter 70 runs is drives the bus. That's the biggest revenue stream in state aid is chapter 70 on the right hand side just shows. basically our projections. we're expecting sustained good growth in local receipts. mostly because we continue to see good growth in motor vehicle Plus. we're hoping that the increases on the fees really helps the town. So as we get into the forecast. So the forecast that we're going to go over is a 10 year revenue and expense forecast. We're going to estimate the surplus deficit and surplus and deficit and levy. We're going to estimate the tax levy and the year to year tax increase. We're going to talk about the enterprise funds and revolving funds briefly. and we're going to get into fiscal 27 revenue and expense forecast. which includes the total town. school and unclassified budgets. and now we're going to talk about the fiscal 27 revenue deficit. We wanted to first start with this graph here to really show you what the town has been doing since 2016 to 2026 so the growth rate over 10 years is 4% the growth rate in the last five years is 4.61 the years between 2016 through 2020 for example. one 4% it was a little bit less. So historically. the town has been around the 4% average. If you go back to 10 years. this is what we're averaging our projection. When we see it is over five. It's over five because we're carrying big assumptions on some of these items. We haven't had a single year in these years where health insurance went up 12% so this is where the town historically is actually budgeted their expenses.
Michael McCall: And for those who want a little more explanation in the tendency in the appendix on slide number 17. you can look we broke out what our retirement and our payroll and health care. So you can see that healthcare is been on a steady increase. and that is what has been lifting up our overall budget numbers these last few years.
Brian Keveny: So this next slide is a take from the very first slide that we went over. A lot of the numbers you saw on the first slide came from this chart. Obviously. it's a very busy job. but I'm going to point to the important areas. You have 11 years here that have projections. and their projections based on assumptions and spending. Again. we have health insurance at 12% pension is going from 6% to 9% and back to six to nine we're carrying general insurance at 10% we've mapped in here debt service. Right now. currently. we have a capital plan that only covers the next four years. so I put in some assumptions on what the capital expenses may be. instead of them having just fall off the chart completely. That's unrealistic. So there are assumptions in here on debt service. We probably missed adjusting the excluded debt portion. because there's going to be debt service in the upcoming years. It's going to be funded by excluded debt. But that won't materially change what we're looking at here. So you're looking at five years. and the first highlights in red and yellow are the area percentages. Now we. Went over slide that was less than 5% always keep in mind. we've got some very conservative numbers in our expenses. We don't have labor contracts. Then we have some of our unclassifieds at the high end than they've ever been. The next row to look at is you the tax increase. This does not have anything related to the MWRA. This is the town budget. You see them around 6% you know. 5% five and a half percent. So I wanted schools done school. This is a this is the budget. So the tax rate theories. based on our assumptions. would be around these amounts. The next important number to look at is the third from the bottom. where it's highlighted in red. is deficit those numbers there. starting with the 1.8 leading to the next number next to it. which is 2.4 that 2.4 number is dependent upon the town voting an override of 1.8 the year before. So this is very much a hypothetical analysis each one of those red years you see. there would have to be voted as an override amount in order to generate the override total for the next year. One number is dependent upon the other. So in a perfect world. every one of these numbers would be voted as an override. and these would be the right numbers. but we all know this is a forecast. and the next series of numbers to look at is highlighted in green. Those are the numbers that are the debt service related to the DPW facility. Those are currently in our levy tax bucket. If those are moved to excluded. a new adjusted number in the first year would drop from 1.8 to 1.1 in running across we have about 4.3 million left in debt service. So the story with that project is. not only does it help 27 it really helps. The subsequent years right out to fiscal 35 it's going to either be included as an override number or be excluded from our override number. depending upon if we move from levy to excluded debt. Unknown: It was also a Moody's recommendation in 2018 Brian Keveny: Yeah. in movies. Movies has always encouraged the town to always fund large capital projects by exclusive from prop two and a half by excluded debt. So this chart here ended up being the first graph you showed. This is where those numbers came from. And I'll stop here because anybody has any questions. because it's a busy schedule. and I only want to highlight a certain areas. because they really tell the story as to the next 11 years of spending Unknown: the DEP w if there debt goes down each year. Is that. because there's a constant payment. principal and interest is based on Yes. prior years principal
Carol Martin: balance. what's the dollar amount the budget's going to increase from FY 26 to 27 Brian Keveny: I think 5.83 based on this. it's the top number. 5.83
Unknown: Madam Chair has dollar amount. Brian Keveny: If you dollar amount. sorry. that's all right. To me. it's in my one Carol Martin: of my 40s. I thought I saw. And also. could we have the what was the tax? The dollar the dollar amount increased from 25 to 26 I wrote you these questions. I didn't see the answer. And what was the and what's the was the year over year tax increase. percent? See this? One's six is this looks right? Six. fine. I thought I saw six months seven early the Brian Keveny: tax increase. I don't have the dollar value. The tax increase would be six points as what would be Carol Martin: 6.6 and then for this year that we're in for 26 How much was it always much less than that. It was. I've seen it on another chart. You have three. Unknown: three years. something like that. 4.3841 Brian Keveny: well. we our recap will be down. It will be lower than expected. because we got a little bit more stated. It's slower than what went to town meeting. because our assessments came down and we got a little more stated. I should have brought that number in front of me. Maybe remember call. these are just assumptions. The worst case scenario. these are assumptions and spending. right? The worst case? No. no. I am not assumptions on the revenues. More set in stone. There's not a lot of flexibility on revenue.
Carol Martin: Anyone else have any questions? Ellen. anyone sorry. so we're
Brian Keveny: getting in the fiscal 27 forecast. as Michael briefly talked about in his opening remarks. All the collecting buying projects expire the end of June. We don't know all labor contracts right now for 2728 29 that's why it would be important to try to get past 27 and really being planned for long term structural plan to get out of our deficit situation. But they mentioned Michael is currently trying to resolve the fire contract. We have assumptions in our this projection right now. but we don't ultimately know what that's going to be. We have unknown revenue increases in state aid. and which means that we're carrying $250.000 but you never know down the road that they start pulling back some of that state aid that's really unknown at that point. we won't know our state aid number until January. We won't know our health insurance number until February. So as we compile the budgets initially. we're assuming certain numbers. and they're all going to be trued up at the end of February. when we get all of our numbers in. But we also have. we have a issue with new growth. Right now we're carrying $400.000 so again. the drivers of the 24 self insurance. pension. general insurance. and we need to maintain a provision for labor contracts. And we don't know that number. but it certainly will be a cost driver. When we did our projections for this. this assumption the town and the school. our expense sides were very low. I think. I think the town expense budget is only supposed to go up like 2% in an environment where there's inflation. Christine has done a nice job on her expense side. We'll speak to a bit. But you know. the biggest driver lately in the school budget has been special education. But if you take specialization out of it. they've done a good job of bringing down their expenses. The school budget. as I just said. is really driven by unknowns in special education.
So what we did do is go into this trying to do a budget without having to have other needs. And as group met. and we've met over 10 times. over 10 times on Wednesday mornings. from nine to 11 consistently. we've come to the conclusion we can't produce a budget under the levy. unless we have these three things on the screen happen. The first one is. as we present it to the Selectmen. is to have the residents re vote the DPW levy debt as excluded. That that would involve them calling a ballot question in November and the residents coming out and supporting moving that from levy to excluded. As I said. it not only helps 27 it helps you through multiple years. The next one. as I presented to the Selectmen. was that were to issue. we're planning on issuing $60 million of bonds. One of the ideas that we came up with was to only issue 8 million of the bonds. The 8 million would be for the water department. What we can do is issue bands in November and have those bands bond anticipation notes for the people. okay. bonding notes. which we refer to as bands. The town has issued bands in the fact. in the past. currently. we actually have two bands. outstanding bands. help towns through periods in between an appropriation and then actually getting the funding that it's a it's a bridge of money until they do long term some towns ban a project. completely finish it. and then they know exactly what dollar value to bond. So they actually borrowed exactly what the project ended up spending. I've seen some towns do that. but you can use bands for different reasons. So we looked at this option. and I went true with our advisor. hilltop securities. And the plan that was presented to the Selectmen was was as follows. in November. we issue bonds for the water department. We issue bands for the general fund projects. which in which means that in November 26 those bands would expire. and we then issue them long term bonds we would only have in our fiscal 27 budget. Interest payable. Now there's a cost to doing this. As I told the Selectmen. you're going to be paying interest on those bands between November 25 in November 26 and we calculated the amount around $140.000 that's assuming that the interest rate would be 4% in November. Currently. bonds are paid selling at 4% so if you take a look at one of the slides in the appendix. it's basically a what if scenario. What if we what if we don't issue bonds in November at 4% what if we waited until November 26 and the rates were 3% well. that interest expense kind of goes away because we're going to pay longer term at 3% it's simply a hypothetical. Nobody knows what the rates are going to be in 20 in 26 but it's good to talk about. We know that the bond rate is going to be 4% in November. Don't know what the bond rate is going to be in November. 20. Six. If you take a look at different scenarios. maybe when we get to 26 and we issue long term bonds. we'll issue them at a rate less than 4% but nobody knows that. but I wanted to put the table in there just to show you. yes. we may pay interest expense. but maybe we won't. and nobody in this table knows for sure what that's going to be. So the last bucket would be. Michael McCall: you need to say. but by doing that and paying the interest only. that frees up the 800.000 Brian Keveny: Yeah. And one other important thing I didn't mention is that these projects during the time period between November 25 and June 26 they need funding right now. Some of the projects have funding in the form of bands. The majority don't do our allows the town to do advancing from the general fund. That basically means the general fund can transfer money to capital projects without approval at Tom meeting. It simply involves the Selectmen approving that and signing a form. It's a no interest loan from the general fund to the capital account. The money must come back to the general fund by June 30. So it's not like the general fund in the number we calculated was about 6 million. free cash is expected to be certified around 12 million. That's what we're projecting. So the way it would work is that after do our approves the town's free cash. the Select model would have approved to move 6 million into the capital count. That immediately brings our appropriation that we can do a Tom meeting to 6 million. Because we've restricted six we still have plenty of free cash to fund any projects that we want to do with town meeting. But remember. the money comes back to the general fund at June 30. It's not lost by the General Fund. and it doesn't affect the town. Towns have done this in the past. You can either do that or you can issue bands. So that was presented to the Selectmen as well as part of this option to move from bands to bonds. so we've gone over that with them. I went over with our bank. I talked to the one of the directors of dor because it's been a while since I did this. I just wanted to make sure I had my ducks in a row. and I I did it once before. And he says. All you do is you fill out the form. explain it to select men. everybody's on board. And you do it in the money. I say it comes back to the general fund. It is not lost money. It comes back to the general fund. So those are the three things that they need to happen. And lastly. the third one. even with these two. we still need cuts on the town of the school to balance a prop two and a half percent balance budget. It's these two projects alone. Based on these four project assumptions. will not bring in a budget under proc tool. Now the town of the school still need to do additional costs between three and 500.000 we think that's manageable. So that is a presentation you have the paperwork. Is a series of slides that we've included in here for you folks to this one I put in here. if you have time. this really maps out the first column where we stand. the agreements move from levy to excluded. how that affects only the do our calculation. And then we have in here the use of him. which actually affects expense. which brings us to our ongoing three to $500.000 problem. which is in the bottom right. And again. this is that incremental assumption on interest. I wanted to put in at least have a folks to take a look at it. So that's they have this slide in yet. because in the top right. there's brightest guys on the sun coming school. Unknown: The top right Brian Keveny: came from my believer. obviously. in the river. So I think I found the right slide. I see the rainbow. brightest guys in the cheap truck. That's our presentation. Carol Martin: Thank you. Brian. thank you. Michael. I want to just ask Aaron real quick. Are you short on time? Here? Are you till 710
Unknown: you can call until 710 Carol Martin: Okay. so we have to ask questions fast. because we got 15 minutes. and one of my board members has his art style at 730 which I'm started at six. So who would like to start the questions? Normally. we start at this level. but why don't Aaron. would you like to start the questions? Or would you like us to
Unknown: anybody from my board have questions?
Carol Martin: Would you say the 300 500.000 Unknown: cut? Is that Carol Martin: shared among the school. or is Brian Keveny: that each of we didn't help an allocation we just knew generally? You know. we have an ongoing problem that could be three to 500.000 it could be 600.000 Unknown: it's shared. Okay. I actually have a question about that number as well. Is that based on numbers from what fiscally in 26 you're cutting from that. or you're cutting from like a 4.55% over fiscal year 26 Brian Keveny: it's. it's based on the school budget in fiscal 27 Unknown: Okay. so like. what was kind of put out as a so what does that look like from a percentage Brian Keveny: we in the school but for 27 the school budget is up 5.5% Unknown: so. okay. yeah. okay. Brian Keveny: so we have a conservative number up there. And Christine is still. you know. as we know. she's relatively new to the district. just trying to get the schools up and running. So we have in there a 5.5 number. I just wanted to clarify where it was. We lost you a four point. I forget the number right under five. Under five. we have 5.5 Unknown: right now. We would. of course. try to get under five well cushion.
Michael McCall: although it uses the word cuts. There may be other ways to interpret that. as indicated before I didn't send out an email the department heads about a hiring freeze. As we have turnover. there may be some positions we choose not to fill so we wouldn't be spending that money. and we may postpone filling that until we get through FY 27 and know what our numbers are. So without truly cutting position. we don't fill it. We're realizing those savings to help us get through that that year. But there may be positions we just do need to eliminate. So it'd be a combination of things Brian Keveny: I would ask Dave to say again. the importance of deferring the Override to next year and getting past 27 you said. why is that important for the school to do that? You talked about that in the budget. Unknown: Sure. a couple of reasons. Brian. the certainty of planning. It's very hard to do a budget when we don't know what our revenue is going to be from an override. That is really hard to do. And when you start creating a budgets and B budgets and C budgets. the instability that it leads to. and I've certainly had to do that. and what you end up having to do is show the positions you're going to reduce. and think about excellent new teachers who will leave. And it just creates a lot of instability. That is the most important thing. Number two. obviously. in collective bargaining. to not have a sense when you're putting together a budget. where you are in terms of planning. So it creates certainty. both from a uncertainty. both from a financial and a human resource side. as opposed to certainty. I think that sums it up. Brian. yes. Carol Martin: I'm gonna see if the Select Board has any questions. Doug Levine: I've got two brief questions. Brian. so the first is. we're assuming a worst case scenario of a 1.8 and same million dollar short call. What is the range? If that's the worst case scenario? What is the best case scenario? If we have higher local receipts. higher state aid. how much does that fall? Well. it Brian Keveny: really would be the delta if health insurance came in less than than two digits. if it was. say. seven or eight. That is set in stone. Middlesex. we already have our assessment. so that's. that's a hard number. The only other thing would be. if the collective bargaining amounts come in less than we have in our projection. we have a number in there that we think is reasonable. If the if the collective bargaining came in less than that. that would bring the number down on the revenue side. reasonably on the state side. you can really expect more than 250.000 you can expect growth in the local receipts. But again. that's only about that's. that's not a material number to you know. two or 300.000 it's a good thing that we bring in more money in the local receipts. but to get. get from your $1.8 million down to a better case scenario. it's the jury still out there? Because we don't know what our new growth is going to be on the tax recap in December. which rolls into prop two and a half calculation. which then adjust all these numbers. stating number in January. in the health insurance so I can't really answer that. because those numbers would are key in bringing this problem about Doug Levine: I asked the question. though. because there there are two. I call them mechanisms. and that last slide. 700.000 800.000 and if we just passed one. it doesn't answer the mail correct. even if we had a best case scenario for a budget. Shortfall. Brian Keveny: If we had one of them proved right. we'd still be in a difficult situation. Budget. generally. Unknown: Doug The one thing I would add also Brian. I'm thinking this past year. there were significant swings in health insurance. depending on what plan you I mean. we were quite low. Think of the GIC. which was historically high. as you know. Doug. and so just given that swing. that's why you don't want to. you know. there's some uncertainty in that particular area. For sure. you don't know till January. Doug Levine: And then my other quick question. Brian was on the first slide in fiscal year 37 the budget swings by $10 million combined from the negative to the positive. and that's all as a result of us funding the retirement liability. And that's done. It's that many millions of dollars. Carol Martin: Yes. um. do you mind if I hop into because I have the same one? So this is interesting. There were a couple slides in here originally that talked about this. and you'll have to help me with the correct wording. Brian. but it's we pay a pension assessment every year. but then be for a number of reasons. which Brian can explain probably another day is a very long report. everyone in the communities in Middlesex retirement is being assessed by what they call it unfunded liability. and waylands is 58 million correct. which we're paying out over these 10 years. Brian Keveny: You hit me with these numbers. I have to go back and check essentially. it's substantial. I think. I think it's 58 to 60 million. Carol Martin: So that's really and those slides were in here. So when you asked me. I saw what's coming up. I didn't see it. But. um. I would really like if Doug doesn't mind if I hop in on his question too. I really. I had sent you a question. I'd like to know what's our unfunded liability for the this amount we have to pay this additional for 27 and then 27 to 30 just out of care. Brian Keveny: We don't we only have that. We only get from two years. So we have from Middlesex 26 and 27 Okay. so post that on their website. They write the unfunded liability on 27 to 60.000.058 Carol Martin: to 60 minutes. Do we have to pay in 27 to what is it? Two additional million? Brian Keveny: I have that hard number anyway. It's it's in my Unknown: calculation. every two years.
Carol Martin: So we pay the regular Brian Keveny: ones. 7 million. We pay some. I'm sorry. 7 million. and Carol Martin: change the 27 Yeah. but that. Inc. what's the what's the amount in blue? Because that's the additional amount. Brian Keveny: The amount in blue is the levy debt related to the DPW. Carol Martin: Yeah. No on this slide. yeah. see that we have in the screen? All right? I think what I like that number? I can get that. I think that sounds like you would like that as well. What is that amount? I think it was in the prior version. It showed the pension and the pension liability. and that's in the operating budget. correct? Yes. the liability. yeah. So I'd like to know Unknown: Yes. Christine clarification that it is based on the actuarial study that is posted on the Middlesex County website. They dictate the amount that we have to pay. irregardless of what our unfurling liability is. They identify because they have adjusted their payment schedule. So that number changes every actuarial period. and so we know what we have right now and what the payment will be for 26 and 27 then it will go through another cycle of the actuarial and they will recalculate our unfunded liability amount. So that's a changing. moving target. So we don't know that. Doug Levine: but it has to end in fiscal year 37 that's what's Unknown: that's what they say. Or the town's fully funded portion. Brian Keveny: Okay. state may have mandated them all pension funds to be fully funded by 2036 some are already. you know. 80. 90% funded. Middlesex right now is a 50% fund. So right now. as we sit here. we're between 50 and 60% fully funded in 10 years. that that number needs to go to 100% Fund. and the only way to get there. Brian Oh Hurley. he did a nice job. I've taken the fiscal 26 and 27 assessments that we have. and actually developing an amortization out to that which runs. and we have that number embedded. So every two years. like Carol. like Christine. said. We get that assessment. but they we've got a long way to go from 50 to 100 in a very short period. Carol Martin: So my question is. that's an operating expense. right? But I'd like to know the dollar amount of that for 27 I think that's the number you and I are looking for. Maybe you can send that to us. right? I don't want to monopolize all the time. I'm going to go with care to there are. although they haven't called to order. there are members of the Finance Committee who speak as individuals. like just for. So April or Pam. Unknown: yeah. so I'll just put a an exclamation point on the overall presentation. We've got financial challenges in front of this. the town. It would be great to get through fiscal year 27 without having to go to an override process. but we've got a lot of education to do. to help the entire town community. to really understand our financial circumstances. identify all the efficiencies that we can and really take steps to sort of implement those efficiencies and communicate it. because we're going to have overrides in the future. It's just right now doesn't feel like the right time to try and put one through. especially if there's levers in front of us that we can all get behind to do the bands and do the debt reclassification. So I'm strong. individually. strong. supportive of the overall plan here. and I don't have any other questions at this time. Carol Martin: Okay. so because we're speaking as as individual residents. would you like to give your address for Unknown: the Oh yeah. seven deer run Wayland. Thank you. And we're Carol Martin: looking for questions so April or Pam. Miss Kelsi. do you have one? Okay? And Bill. yes. I know I forgot to respond. I went that way. Sorry. Sorry. let's see
Brian Keveny: so the the assessment of a 27 is 7.3 million. Unknown: Middlesex County retirement Brian Keveny: 7.3 million. We already had the unfunded liability Carol Martin: portion is 6966
Unknown: 27 this is part of the actuarial study. Yes. she wants to know. what's the difference year over year? Is that what you're asking? No. yes. they don't give it to you that way career. But the amount. the assessment that we will be including in the FY 27 is 7.3 million. right for the middle sense. county. what it was for FY 26 was 6.8 million. Carol Martin: There you go. 6.8 so it's 500.000 Brian Keveny: and for another day. we talked about doing a pension obligation bond. but that's. that's another night's discussion to address the Middlesex issue. Carol Martin: Mr. Whitney. I'm sorry. Brian. the 802.000 Unknown: for the bands. is that net of the 100? Yes. an interest. okay? William Whitney: And what happens if we do the issue the bands in lieu of 8 million in bonds. and we. and we there is an unsuccessful vote on the reclassification of the TPW facility type. Brian Keveny: Yeah. that's a good question. because do we proceed with just winning the bands and the bonds and bringing down the budget in 27 by 800 we wreck even we recognize as a group that. you know. we still have to make a cut of over a million dollars. and that would be very challenging. A lot of things would have to break our way. So that's the it's sort of like. which do you want to pick? Do you want to just if we don't get involved? Do we just call it a day and ask for an override because the cuts will be just too insurmountable? Or do we take the 800.000 savings and deal with a million dollar problem? That's the information we have at this point in the budget development. Unknown: So and you mentioned a November election. Brian Keveny: well. you would have called ballot question Unknown: right in November. in November. before November. or November. which is kind of a month away. yeah. 3030. we think there is sufficient time to educate the electorate as to the importance of voting For this thing in a month would be a challenge. Doug Levine: That's the latest you can have in the election. at Michael McCall: least 35 days from when it's 35 days from when the Select Board calls the election. The clerk actually asked for 45 days. And if you go back. and I was looking at today with Madam Chair. the policy is when. as we have presented a request for the board to consider a reclassification the debt under Proposition two and a half in your policy. we have to request a presentation or opinion from the FinCom. and they have to Give it to the board and you. according to policy. cannot vote to have the election until one week after that. It has to be one week. But there is a timeline so well. Unknown: a question. I guess. for the elected officials here. which is. how do we feel about taking this to the voters in a month? The. For 45 days. can kind of sufficiently robust public information campaign be developed and get the word Michael McCall: out another community in March. we put on a debt exclusion for a fire station. They voted to put it on the ballot. I think. in March. and then managed to get it to pass. Interesting you're looking about. because Unknown: this is. this is much more esoteric. I think this is not saying we need a fire station. This is. we've issued the debt. We've been paying it all along. We want to pay it out of a different pocket and why is that a good idea? Michael McCall: All we can do is an informational campaign. We are limited under Proposition two and a half. We we the town staff cannot. I'm not Unknown: suggesting there would be an advocacy campaign per se by but individuals can speak to their neighbors. can have coffees. can have Q and A's put together. and that takes time and organization understand. Doug Levine: So that goes back to the question. why do you have to have this election November? Can you have it in December or January? What is the latest that we can have it to allow for more time for Carol Martin: education? Hey. it's April. but we don't want to do that. What can we do Doug Levine: it in January? Giving us several months? I Brian Keveny: guess that's a question for Michael and the town clerk. If they didn't want to do it in November. could they do it in January? But then keep in mind. we're right in the middle of budget
Unknown: development to to the question I had. so there seems to be a lot of discussion of having the bands approved as soon as possible. What is that rush coming from? Brian Keveny: It's coming from. We're doing a movies call on October 7. Bank is finished our official statement and ready to go to bidders in early November. October. so the states and the stage has been set town to borrow $16 million in November. So we've done all the paperwork we've gone through one council. all those three groups are now looking at us and saying. Okay. we're ready to go. What is Wayland doing? So we really need a decision no later than your next meeting on September 29 on the bands. because I have to inform the bank what we don't have asked him. Can I have a two. three week delay? And that's not realistic. is everything on your side is in the queue. Unknown: So if that. if that happens. so we've spent 140.000 without knowing whether the debt would be reclassified. so kind of at risk. right?
Brian Keveny: Well. you go back to the sensitivity analysis. and it's better in a year from that. That's like you can speculate on that Carol Martin: Susan for one second. I just want to make sure and were you. were you finished? And then I'm not Unknown: really. because I want to understand this a little better. So what you're essentially saying is that we're all set up to do the bands. and if we miss this window. then. and they're all essentially saying. What's going on here. and if we miss the window. then we have to essentially start over. Brian Keveny: No. um. no. So we're all set to issue $60 million in bonds. Yes. the bank knows that we're looking at this option. We're definitely going to issue 8 million in bonds. That's a surety with the water department. November. the options are issue $16 million in bonds. or issue $8 million in bonds. an issue with a balance in bands. which is a short term loan. Okay? Carol Martin: And we also have. I did send out a meeting up to the boards. and a couple meetings ago. We also have some bands that have to be paid off by November. So this Brian Keveny: expiring? Carol Martin: Are they having the meeting in I think it's October 7. It takes a couple weeks to do the paperwork so they can issue the bands in time. so that we can take care of the ones that need to be reissued and a left. so that decision we have to make by the 29th so that Brian and hilltop can proceed. Period. how's that proceed? Period. sorry.
Um. meeting. Because any anybody from the school committee? Okay. we all said. I'm sorry.
Unknown: Please let me know. I also think it's easier to explain. I'm sorry. I think it's easier to explain the fact that.
Like financially. the DPW facility. more than likely should have been excluded from the levy at the jump. and it's more of an appropriate reclassification for that than anything else. That's an easier lift to me than to ask people to approve. you know. be it maybe a smaller one year override or and then knowing that the next year you're going to approve another larger. three year potential override amount. and that there's. there'll be more certainty around collective bargaining. etc. when we come to them for like an ask on an override versus. let's do a little dribble here. and then we'll do another bigger one in a year.
Carol Martin: I will tell you. I think I mentioned this. You might have been at that meeting. I actually was on the Finance Committee when that project was recommended for debt exclusion to the Select Board. So we went before we did the presentation. as we will ask this current finance committee to make presentations per code. I guess there was policy to the Select regarding debt exclusion on the ballot. ballot questions and the select what at the time. felt that we had an a lot of unused levy capacity. and they wanted to reduce the unused levy capacity. I believe. I'm sure this will come out as we go through this process. Should we go that path? They wanted us. the town. to make more mindful decisions about budgeting. and so they use the 12 million. 11 million. whatever it was of that levy capacity. okay. Brian. Will you hand them? Can you just start it? Because it was you just came in February and I had just stopped. yeah. so I think that was the reasoning of it. And I'm sure that when this. if we go that route. that will. that will be part of the conversations. Well. be revisited. So. okay. yes. yes. Unknown: I was just gonna say we kind of need to. We don't Carol Martin: know you guys got a problem. Yeah. anyway. so you don't need to adjourn or anything. right? No. we'll just start there. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you everybody. Presentation. Appreciate it. Thanks. Michael and I'm
Unknown: going to drop as well. Carol. Carol Martin: thank you. Thank you. April. and I think Pam left as well. Hi. Anne. all right. Exit. Would it be appropriate for me to ask some Unknown: questions the voters see seeing on the ballot in November. if it can be get. if it can get on the ballot by then. are they just being asked to reclassify DEP talk to another Yes. being asked anything about the band? No. no. no. that seemed like such a hard asset. We're just going to fund it from a different pot. Michael McCall: Yes. so it moves it into a different pot for the calculation of your levy capacity. Unknown: Got it. I think that was in the paper. the Michael McCall: paper. and we would work with town council that you would be shell the voters to win. and. you know. reclassify the existing debt. and we'd give the amount from levy to excluded debt. Carol Martin: Thank you. right. We only have about 10 minutes left. And the one I guess I'm going to ask thanks for it as if you would like us
Michael McCall: to go to number four. Yes. considerably. Have the updated. but I believe number four is one. Carol Martin: although we have not made any decisions on either of these. and I am going to ask when we get to the next one. if the sense of the board is to wait until all five of us are present on the 30th to take These 29th so for Mr. But we've also been asked to consider asking the finance committee to make a recommendation to us on the 29th regarding the classifying of the levy debt to excluded because. as I mentioned just a few minutes ago. that's part of the process that we have if we're considering a debt exclusion ballot question. We then request a presentation from the finance committee. so then they would have an opportunity to vote on it on the 29th and then they would probably come in on the sixth to make the presentation. because they have to make a presentation to us. I believe. on ballot on debt exclusion. So. I don't know what the success. but it is a Michael McCall: like they may be meeting the 29th maybe they make it earlier. and they come in that. I don't know how it will work. I think that'd be up to Mr. Unknown: Judy's. All right. Well. all right. I'd like to offer motion to for the Select Board to request that the Finance Committee make a recommendation and give a presentation to the board regarding the request. request by the levy debt to excluded debt for the Department of Public Works facility at 66 River Road. Thank you. Carol Martin: Any further discussion? Okay. so let's have a roll call. Unknown: and that's pursuant to the board's proposition to invest policy in the Select Board meeting. just for Carol Martin: and that's what you said in your motion. that it was pursuant to the boards two and a half the Doug Levine: boards two and a half. Unknown: I think that's superfluous. but accept the friendly amendment. Feel better. All right. that was not part of my motion. All right. then I'm going Carol Martin: to Anne. yes. Doug. yes. Bill. yes. Carol. yes. that so that motion passes four zero. So Mr. Manager. if he would be so kind as to draft a memo to do it. That's a letter floating around. But I thought that was a little more formal than we need here. because we aren't actually. we haven't. We've kind of. yeah. so do you want me to send it on? We can talk. We'll talk about it. All right. that sounds like a plan. I know that Mr. Levine has a hard stop here shortly. and I did want to ask before we we can discuss any of these that are on the table. if you want to do that. But I also want to ask if we. if. again. if. what's the sense of the board? Should we wait until Tom is also present and on the 29th before we consider votes. Doug Levine: The 29th is acceptable. according to Brian. for approval. if we so approve for the bonds to Vance. right? And on the other one. I still don't understand when that would have to be actually decided. Michael McCall: I think as soon as practical. when we first flipped the memo and introduced this formally to the board. we were in August. And the theme the thought process. then. was. most people have it in their minds. They come in in the first week. the first Tuesday of November. So the thought was. shoot for that date. Can you go later in November. even to early December? I'm sure we could do that and leave 60 some odd days or more for some type of informational campaign. Is Mr. Kevin. He said. the closer we get to our requirements under the code to recommend a budget to this body and then hand over to the FinCom. we need to have some decision. because then we would be looking at going through the same process of requesting an operational override and then having to come Back and having to have the board ask the FinCom make a presentation go through that. and you'd be then looking at the spring annual election. so that you would have time to campaign for an operational and if we didn't get the votes to put it on the ballot or something. then the worst case scenario. I guess. is that whatever happens with the bands happens. and then you're looking at some significant cuts across the board. That's always the last resort. And my philosophy is town manager is I'm supposed to present every option to you folks and then follow through on whatever. however the chips may fall. as Mr. Whitney alluded. even if we were to put the question on. it still may fall. but. you know. it could fail. and then we would then either have to see. you know. if we could make some adjustments. and if we couldn't. we may have to come back and then ask this board to consider an operational over Doug Levine: is there some minimum threshold of votes that you need for turnout? Because I imagine turnout will be pretty low on this one question. I believe Michael McCall: that it is just a simple majority of the people that turn out that day. I do have a link to proposition two and a half elections. It's a primer. and it does go over some of this in the Q and A. I believe. So I can circulate that to the board Doug Levine: if you haven't. I think we should probably have substantive discussions about both of these on the 29th Unknown: on the agenda already. Doug Levine: It's that agenda planning. Carol Martin: But we. we've we. our intent was to finalize it tomorrow based on if we needed some other items. you know that came from this meeting. So and are you okay here? Because I think we're just about ready to wrap up. unless you have something else you want to add. or I. Unknown: No. I am. I'm actually doing a lot of absorbing of all of it so. Carol Martin: so I think you missed it earlier. because I not should be online. I do want to say it again. I thank you all very much for coming on such short notice. and particularly this particular week. appreciate it tremendously. And so. having said that I would Doug Levine: entertain and move that we adjourn the Select Board at 727.
Carol Martin: and then Anne. yes. no. yes and call. Thank you. Kelsi. thank you.
Surface Water Quality Committee
08-27-25 - Surface Water Quality Committee
Tom Klemm: 7:06pm. and because
we are remote. let's have
everyone go around the room and
acknowledge that they are their
name and their presence. Go
Steve. First.
Steve Garone: Steve Garone.
member of the committee.
Tom Klemm: okay. And then Tom
Tom Largey: Tom Largey
Tom Klemm: and Tom Klem present.
Great. So we have a quorum.
three members of five at 7:06pm.
okay. very good. And we missed
last month's meeting. So we'll touch on the topics that we had on the agenda back in July. and then new developments since that time. So let me call my agenda up here on the town side. Any public comment? By any chance. I don't think we have anybody on town side. Okay. next item on the agenda is to approve the minutes from our June 18 meeting. I sent those for circulation. If anybody has any comments we can discuss. If not. I will make a motion to approve the minutes from June 18. Tom Largey: I second that motion. Tom Klemm: okay. and then let's go around the room.
Tom Largey: Tom Largey aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone aye. Tom Klemm: and Tom Klem. aye thank you. wonderful.
Okay. first item up. Heard Pond status on the herbicide treatment and hand harvesting of water chestnut. Tom Largey. the floor is yours to give Steve the update on. Tom Largey: okay. well. there was a lot has gone on this summer. both on hand pulling and an herbicide treatment. So the first herbicide treatment. it was around the middle of July. and a second one just. I think it was August 6. and so that was the South Cove. If you look at a map of Heard pond. I also call it the Southwest Cove. It's on the southwest side. So we've had two herbicide treatments. And Tom Klem and I were out a couple of weeks ago to look at it. and at that time. we saw in the treated area plants were were not healthy. but they were still living. So there was a concern then that they could still drop seeds. Because when these plants drop seeds. you know. the total would be in the 10s of 1000s. I was going to go out today to take a look. I load. I try not to go out on a hot. hot day. Today was a cold morning and but I happened to run into the fellow from SOLitude who was winding up the hand pulling so I asked him to go out there and look at the distressed plants. And also. it turns out. and this is quite a problem. a big problem. when Tom Klem and I. Tom Klem particular. going through the whole NOI process. and there was an issue with approval from US Fish and Wildlife. because about 95% of Heard pond is surrounded by fish and wildlife land. And it turns out. we had originally come in with a map that showed Heard pond. but it's not as simple as that. because some of Heard pond. as in fish and wildlife land. and that was finally straightened out. but the herbicide applicators were constrained from applying the herbicide in the Fish and Wildlife land. So when Tom Klem and I were out there a couple of Sundays ago. we could see. and it's very mucky stuff. and we could see there seemed to be a band of brighter green on the other side of all of the treated water chestnuts. So this fellow this morning. went in there. I asked him to measure the extent of. And roughly. by the way Tom. there was an email from Jeff Castellani. Did you see that it came about four or five o'clock? Yeah. briefly before the meeting. yeah. with a number of photos. which it turns out. you have to log into Google to view. and that was a little onerous for me. Tom Klemm: Let me. I can do that. I'll forward them to you. if my login Tom Largey: so anyway. and there was an error this fellow. Rocco. who was out this morning. He made a an error between left and right. and because he was talking about the part of the pond that abuts the barrier between it and the Sudbury River. and he used left instead of right. and right takes you down more southerly and more westerly. So what he said. told Jeff. and it's in Jeff's email. is that and he uses canoe to for cover. to measure it. But starting in that area with the wetlands between the pond and the Sudbury river. there was a band of about 20 feet of untreated plants. And it kind of goes around and to the right. I left Jeff a message on that. We'll have to get that straightened out to about a band of about 50 feet wide down at the very far end of the pond. So that's untreated. Also Rocco pulled some of the plants and looked at them and felt that either the seeds were dead. and when they're dead. they're black. if they're good seeds. they're green. But these were dead seeds. seeds. and what. a week or so ago. I talked to this fellow at SOLitude Tanner Pool and raised a concern that all these plants that Tom Klem and I saw. they were still living. They were just kind of brownish. or. you know. he could. or whatever. and they assured me that the plants would not have the energy to produce the seeds. And that. apparently. is what Rocco saw this morning. So by the way. was the name Rocco. He does. he's. he's just an older retired guy. He's. he doesn't look like a gangster or anything like that. But anyway. so the fact of the that green band of unharvested plant is a extremely serious situation looking into the future. if not perpetuity. because in future years. if we can't treat that. then. you know. if you were to take a couple of 100 yards of plants. very dense. 20 to 50 feet. foot band. you're talking 1000s of plants that can drop 10s of 1000s of seeds so that that can never be controlled. That's serious issue. We really didn't
we. meaning I and Tom. unless we were out in the pond with GPS. we could never tell which was fish and wildlife which wasn't. you know. they had to work out the measurements on the GPS.
anyway. So that's the treated area. On the untreated area. there are three. three pulling days in July. about 17. Tom Klemm: Let me pause you there. before we go on to the hand. the hand pulling part of this So Steve. just to get you.... to summarize what Tom was saying. You know. we went into this we were hoping to get the permit for the Clearcast. treat that south part of the pond. and ideally wipe out the plants that were there. Yeah. but based on what Tom was saying. some of that water was still in fish and wildlife territory. so it couldn't be treated. It's a pretty big band. And even the areas. we did treat. it's uncertain how effective that was. So it's. it's very likely. and Tom Langey let me know if you agree with this. that it's. it'll be hard to tell next season whether we were effective. and that's gonna be a combination of because we couldn't treat all the area and even the area that was treated. those plants still may have dropped viable seeds. so we'll have to see. But it's questionable whether this year. bought us any time or made any gains beyond the hand harvesting. Tom Largey: yeah. well. also from year to year is this variability. You know. the history of the pond was that we started in 2003 proceeded through to 2016 and had great success. and the pond appeared to be terrific. shoreline to shoreline. All of a sudden. 50.000 plants in 2016 the pulling crews were overwhelmed. Many 10s of 1000s. if not hundreds of 1000s of seeds were dropped in 2016. The viability you know. there's a curve. A huge number of seeds are viable in the next. first several years. and then it tapers off. But it's a long. long tail. They had said seven years. and the literature said 10 and 10 to 12. 12. to 15. I'm convinced a Heard pond is 20 years those. The science is lacking a little bit there. So I'm certain that there are 10s of 1000s. hundreds of 1000s of seeds in that area. some number which will come next year. But I am heartened by Rocco this morning looking at some plants and not seeing any viable seeds on the plants. Oh.
Tom Klemm: go ahead. Steve. Steve Garone: no. I'm curious about this dichotomy between what we can do. where we can do something. and where we can't. because it's Fish and Wildlife. How does that part that we can't treat get treated? What is the process? Tom Largey: Well. it can't be unless they're not going to do it. I think off off season. we're going to have to pursue that with Fish and Wildlife. That's another round of permitting that we may have. I'm talking personally may or may not have the stomach for and with expenses unknown. Tom Klem is. is pretty good at that stuff. but my. oh. my. it's. it's just a difficult situation. Tom Klemm: to me. what's. what's a bit frustrating about that is. I don't recall hearing that at any of the prior meetings. Now. it just seemed like we could treat that whole. anything that was in the water was was treatable. And so to learn after later. at least to me. it sounds like this is information learned after the fact. when it could have been communicated earlier. Now. in practice. it wouldn't have made any difference. because Tom as you say. we'd need to get Fish and Wildlife approval. But that's a bit of a surprise to learn after they've applied that they couldn't get that innermost part. the closest to shore part. because of this overlay with Fish and Wildlife. Tom Largey: And well. you know. I think what instigated it was last fall. And. oh. the. what do they call that? The. the. what is it? MEPA. Mass EPA. and on to Fish and Wildlife. Yes. those things are not questioned in earlier years and and in fact. for many years. most years. I've sent a report to Fish and Wildlife. and we describe all of that. and it was hand pulling or harvesting. although around 2002 there was a an application of an herbicide in the pond. I. I was not a. not a principal on that. and I just have no records about that Fish and Wildlife knew about it. They approved of it. but then all of a sudden you get into this permitting process. and it got sticky. and so it's just. it's. you know. I like to say that's you. That's part of what Mr. Trump got elected for. Because regulations. regulations. regulations. it's extremely difficult. And. you know. this is a prime example. Tom Klemm: yeah. this is learning it at a micro level. And you can imagine a bigger project that they'd have to go through. But. Steve Garone: oh yeah. doesn't being able to deal with what you're dealing with on like only one part of the pond. Compro. uh. compromise. doesn't get compromised what you're doing when the other half you can't do it with. Tom Largey: So absolutely. absolutely. Tom Klemm: Well. no. I'm not sure I agree. I mean. it means that the perimeter encroaches. but it encroaches up to the point where we can begin treating it. So. yes. we can treat that area closer to shore. It just means that's. that's land that's that's now lost to the water chestnuts. So it doesn't prevent any other work that we're doing. I like the work that we did accomplish. but that perimeter is now is less than it was before. Tom Largey: because that's what water chest spread. So inevitably you know. when the seeds drop. they don't always drop directly to the bottom. Things happen. You know. there are strong winds that this is very shallow water. can roll up the bottom. and just like anything else. they're going to inevitably spread. What the rate is is hard to say. but they will tend to spit. the seeds will tend to spill into the rest of the pond. That's. that's. that's. that's a problem. So we can treat next year and the year after. But there's in particular. the area that's closest to the untreated area. there are going to be more plants. The seeds just spill and they're impossible to count. Just impossible
Tom Klemm: Tom. Do you want to go on to Steve Garone: the you want to count seeds? Is that what you said. What? What are you counting when you say they're impossible to count? Tom Largey: Well. as an example. in 2016 I. I went and bought at town of Wayland. expense. a clam rake. Okay. that's when I had more energy and went into the South Cove and tried a little raking. and decided it was a very difficult endeavor. So then we had SOLitude come in and dredge up some chunks off the bottom and bring that. I forgot how they did it. bring that dripping mess aboard and look for water chestnut seeds. And they've they were hard to find. They just say. even though. okay. we were knew. we knew where there you can't do it's hard to do more than that. and that's all expensive. so. but the clam rake is still in my shed. It's town of Wayland property. If anybody wants to rake clams. they could borrow it. I should turn it over to DPW or somebody I don't know. I've got the rake Steve Garone: We could probably use it. I got Tom Largey: a friend. seriously. uh. I'll bring it by tomorrow. Steve Garone: I'll want to. I want to see it first. Tom Largey: Well. it's a clam rake right? It's got tongs. it's but it would probably do great on tape grass. Oh.
Steve Garone: boy. wow. Anyway. Tom Klemm: let's. let's so Tom. The other part of this is the hand harvesting part. So why don't you talk about that part and some of the challenges we're facing there? Or. I guess. more accurate. to say that SOLitude is facing. and that's by indirectly impacts us and our ability to manage Tom Largey: Yeah. well.Jeff had reported earlier they did 3 days on the main part of the pond. the open water area. the South Cove is not open water. It's wall to wall weeds. despite the fact that 10 years ago. it was open water and we cleared it bank to bank. and we nevertheless still had this Those are really hard to do. and you pull a plant and around 2009 we we had a project there. and several of us on the committee. tremendous infestation of long dormant seeds. But anyway. and get out there. I got waders. We had laundry baskets with floats on them. We're pulling laundry baskets and waiting through the shallows in the pond. which is not much fun. but you'd do a an we had allocated seven pulling days at $1.200 a day. plus area one week. and the next week there'd be plants back. because those plants are hidden under the water lilies so and for years and years. I've made a special point through the season $1.500 for a report. comes out to $9.900 and so they used three to tell SOLitude to please get the water water lilies so they have and they. and what Jeff is saying in this note that I mentioned. that you Tom and I got. was that they pulled in July. and Then there seems to have been a second propagation in July. pulled 1.700 plants from open water areas. Then last event. more seeds came up. So many more seeds in the or plants in the open water area. Tom Klem and I saw some when we were out Friday. they came back and used four more days. including today. a couple Sundays ago. I'd call that sporadic. But what I really wanted them to pay attention to was the area the approaches to the South Cove. outside the treated area and Tom Klem and I have pulled approximately 4.000 plants. including many. many saw quite a few plants there a couple of Sundays ago. So this fellow. Rocco. went out surveyed that. reported to Jeff . In this letter. Jeff is recommending that we have two additional days along Pelham Island Road and other parts of the pond. or of pulling to get those plants that are outside of the treated area. which would be $2.400. it turns out. the last two. three years. we've exceeded our 9.900 by some amount every year. So quite a few water lilies. $2.400 Tom Klemm: by about. a by a couple $1.000 every year. Tom Largey: Yeah. yeah. Well. a couple of years ago was 12.000 more. But anyway. I'd like to make a motion that. and I don't know how much money we have in our accounts. I think this is a serious issue. We're going to run out of money on some on some things. somehow. But I would like to make a motion that we approve two additional hand pulling days at $1.200 each to
pull the area outside of the treated area. Tom Klemm: we will be able to manage that. I mean. it's a few $1.000 I'm willing to approve this. and we'll. we'll manage to have to push it off into the next fiscal year. or something. We can do that. So that's a small dollar. So I. I second that. Steve Garone: I want to. just want to ask a question about that. because one of the things I want to talk about in relation to Dudley Pond is that we're coming up on the fall measurements that we need to do. Tom Klemm: Yeah. that's on the agenda. We'll talk about that Steve Garone: Okay? And. you know. I want to make sure that we're not that we have that money in place as well. Yep. I don't want to jump ahead. but if we're adding
Tom Klemm: yeah and right now. well. I'll have time to show the the budget and where we are. Okay. great. You know. this may impact stuff like Procellacor core down the road. but we'll. we'll see. I mean. this is a few $1.000 let's. let's do. This now. I mean. I think we're going to be in reactive mode for for a lot of this stuff. So I second the motion for two more days of manual water test harvesting on hard pond. And now let's go through a roll call vote. Tom Largey: Tom Largey. aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem aye. All right. You got it Tom. Tom Largey: okay. oh. go ahead. Tom. oh. that's about all I have to say about Heard Pond. You know. I'm 85 years old. I still move around pretty well. but my. oh. my. this. this goes on endlessly. I used and so Tom Klemm: well. I did want to touch on on a point. Steve Garone: Tom. are you grooming a successor? Telling us? Are you grooming a successor? Is that what you're telling us? Tom Largey: Well. very luckily. Mister Clem has done admirably with the paperwork. with the paper. which I have no stomach for anymore. yeah. Tom Klemm: but what you need are. what you know. are boots on the ground. so to speak. yeah. and Tom. you know. one thing you pointed out is that and Steve. you know. SOLitude doesn't have their own crews for this. they have to get involved. Well. not volunteers. They've got to hire people. which has been difficult. They've been using Charles River Canoe and Kayak until recently. this year was Tom they hired volunteers. Who do they know what it was?
Tom Largey: Yeah. they it's a little confusing. Actually. the president of Charles River Canoe was out on the pond Saturday and Sunday. I didn't know that. and that was a non contractual day. That's for them to figure out. not us. but these guys that were doing the pulling are mighty. mighty independent guys. They would fit right in at a biker bar. and that's how they look. And you know. crews like this are hard to pull together. That's that's all there is to it. But this fellow. Rocco. who is out there. he normally drives a harvester and drives there equipment. but they pulled them in to do this so because they can't get kids. and it's just awfully difficult. Tom Klemm: Yeah. so Steve. the problem is multiple so first of all. SOLitude has to hire the crews. which is difficult for them to do. which means we can't control the timing of when they do this. I mean. Tom has said many times. you want to get these plants before they drop seeds. so we can't control that. They're now dropping seeds. There's still a lot of plants in the water. and then we get charged by the day. and it sounds like the guys out there today were in kayaks. which has a much less capacity than. for example. Tom your boat. So we're paying the same amount for a day. whether it's a kayak or some guy in a boat who can haul in sacks of stuff. So you know. these things work against us to get a really good harvesting to get the most bang for our buck. so to speak. That's gonna be a chronic challenge. oh? But that's Unknown: okay. Yeah.
Steve Garone: you don't. You're not grooming a successor. is what you're saying. We already have them. Tom Klemm: He's just. he's just pointing out that he can't do it forever. None of us can. Tom Largey: You know what? A few years ago. when we had a different mix on the committee? Yes. you know. there was Mike Lowery who had a pontoon boat could tool around Dudley pond. and that one or two others had kayaks. Linwood Bradford had his boat on Lake Cochituate. And it sure helps. if you're on surface water quality. to have members who have boats. and what Unknown: what water I'm Tom Largey: one of them. yeah. well. I'll bring you out to Heard pond anytime we can do a survey. Steve Garone: You want to transport my boat over there. That's fine. Tom Largey: anyway. Steve Garone: So moving on. Tom Klemm: Yeah. so Okay. let me. let's go on. sort of moving on to Dudley Pond. And before we get into some i into some larger topics. let's take care of some quick business. The first is we do have an invoice. So recall that few months ago. we contracted with ARC. aquatic I always get the name wrong. Aquatic Restoration. something to do a survey of the flora in Dudley Pond. pre and post harvest. mechanical harvesting season. So they've done that first survey. and we received an invoice for it. I sent it around to everybody. It's for $2.400 odd dollars. And so my first request is that we. I'm making a motion that we approve payment to ARC for that first survey that they had performed for us. Steve Garone: Second. Tom Klemm: thank you. And let's go around the virtual room to approve or not. Tom Largey: Tom Largey aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone. aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem. aye. thank you. Okay? And then another quick one. Steve. you had alluded to it earlier. There's the fall water chemistry testing coming up. Do you want to make a motion to approve expenditure of about? It's about $2.000 right? Steve Garone: Yeah. somewhere in that ballpark. I don't have the exact amount. Shouldn't change. One of the things I want to. I want to just bring this up. This one's going to be a little bit tricky. And the reason is. you know. half of the testing is done by me submitting. then the samples I get to a lab case. and the other one is done by a guy named Ben Weatherall. Tom Klemm: Oh. right. Steve Garone: He comes out with his meter. Well. Ben has changed companies. and while he's willing to do it this fall. he has to do it on his own time. which means a weekend. So we're trying to work out the logistics. because it turns out that one) his testing and my testing need to be done at around the same time. And two) one of the tests that I do requires it get to the lab within 24 hours. So that kind of puts us on a Sunday. and Ben is willing to do a Sunday. so I think we're going to be able to work it out in this fall. but I don't think Ben's going to be available in the future. which means we'll either have to train me to do it and rent the equipment or find somebody else. Tom Klemm: Does Ben do any. I'm recollecting that Ben has his multimeter. and he's looking at oxidation. Steve Garone: dissolved oxygen. you know. Tom Klemm: So the question is. is it all stuff that's read off of this meter? Or there are there tests involved that he does or sends? No. Steve Garone: no. I do those. He just use that meter. So. I mean. one of the alternatives is. after this fall. I can somehow get trained on using the meter. and we just have to rent it. and that might actually make things cheaper. But we haven't answered that question yet. Tom Klemm: hasn't Mike lower you used the meter before? Could Mike train you on it? Because if it's just a handheld meter. Steve Garone: I wasn't aware of that. so I'll find out. Tom Klemm: Okay. but the upside is that. then we'll do it this fall. but beyond that. we need to Steve Garone: Exactly Tom Klemm: Okay. Steve Garone: right. So we're aiming now for probably October 5. which is a Sunday. So the logistics are going to be that. you know. he may. he may be able to go out in the afternoon. He prefer the morning. but we should do it on the same day. but I would have to go out after 3pm so that they can get that sample back to the lab within 24 hours. Tom Klemm: So that is the day of the Dudley Pond Fun Run. So if you can coordinate all of it for the afternoon. it might be better. Steve Garone: right? I forgot about that. Tom Klemm: So the morning might be tough if you're if he's thinking about parking at Mansion beach to do his thing. Steve Garone: NAH let him park in my driveway. Okay? Forgot about that. which is interesting. because I usually do that run. So maybe we'll make it a different weekend. Tom Klemm: okay. but yeah. let me and I hope Ben does a good job writing those reports. But as far as collecting data. if it's just the multimeter. the multimeter. then we should be able to manage that ourselves. and as you say. it'll be a bit of a cost saver. Yeah. Okay. so he'll do it this fall. but after that. we're on our own Steve Garone: to figure out a new way to do it. Okay? Tom Largey: Well. there has been a. you know. in the in the past. surface water quality has bought some equipment and Carole Plumb. I think I don't know. a year. two or three years ago. has raised the issue of some of this equipment. and it turns out. you need supplies to run the equipment. and the equipment is maybe obsolete and so forth. So which. you know there. there's stuff lurking around there. but maybe difficult to use. and may be expensive to use. Tom Klemm: You are correct.She was talking about the. I believe it was the pH probe. and it hadn't been used in a while. and it was going to take some rejuvenation. if that's even possible. I possible. Steve Garone: So things that we measure. what's that pH? So one of the things Tom Klemm: we measure. right? And so Ben's got one of these things. so we. if we have to rent from him. that's probably going to be that there goes any cost savings. right? Potentially. Steve Garone: I'm not sure. does he have it. or does he rent Tom Klemm: it? I don't know anything you could ask Norm. because Norm and Ben have been doing this for years. so check with him. I just. you know. they take care of it. And so I don't know exactly the how of it. but yeah. check it with Norm. Okay. you know. I wouldn't be. you know. I don't know. Actually. no. Ben does measure at multiple spots. Steve Garone: And what I do know is that Ben. in our discussions about this. said. when he can't do it. we would have to rent it. So we'd have to find out from him where to rent it. and somehow get trained. or read an instruction manual. or talk to Tom. I'm sorry. talk to Mike Lowery. Okay. we'll figure it out. Tom Klemm: Okay In the meantime. did we so I made the motion? Did we actually take a vote on that. or did we go right into some questions? Steve Garone: I just interrupted you. so let's Tom Klemm: Okay. Well. sorry. the second. okay. well. let me just. let's start again. So motion to approve expenditure for Fall water chemistry testing on Dudley pond on the order of $2.000 is there a second? Steve Garone: Second? Tom Klemm: Thank you. and let's go around the virtual room. Tom Largey: Tom Largey . aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone . aye
Tom Klemm: thank you. Tom Clem. aye. okay. very good. Those are the two. Let's see approval. Okay. excuse me. we had a topic last time. And Steve. I don't know if you want to talk more about this revenue updates. You know the my guess first. before we get into that. I know Alison has sent some updates on the harvesting. I have not had a chance to read those. Steve. do you want to give an update? Are we? Is that thing broken down again? Are we making a great headway? What's the Steve Garone: I haven't. I haven't in front of me. What's funny was that I see Allison almost every day. I run out to the beach. I talk to her and I. and she said she sent me something before the meeting. and so I hadn't seen anything. so I said I wrote her a note today. and said. Are you going to send something? Well. she sent it to you and me on the town email. as opposed I think she was going to send it directly to me in my personal email. so I literally saw it right before we started this meeting. So I have it up in front of me. And basically there are. there are two parts to it.
She did tell me. by the way. this is not in her report that this from the from the standpoint everything's relative. from the standpoint of the efficacy and the use of the harvester over the course of the weeks we're using it. it's been the best year so far. The fewest breakdowns. you know. problems that did crop up were fixed fairly quickly. and that we also shifted. as you know. the starting point. which turned out to be a really good decision this year. Tom Largey: are you talking about the depth? Steve Garone: No. about the date that we started harvest? Oh yeah. okay. toward the end of July. and that that worked out really well. I was really surprised. because I have a pontoon boat on the pond. and usually the tape grass issues crop up a lot earlier in this season that they did this year. We think that might have been due to the fact where we. we when we measured the Secchi depth in the spring. it's usually like 11 or 12 feet. Yup. it was like 8. 8 one half feet at the most. So we think for some reason the pond was not as clear as it was. maybe less sunlight got down then. That might have retarded the regrowth a little bit. but we're not sure. Tom Klemm: So there's been no complaints then from residents about weeds fouling their props. Steve Garone: not that I know of now. Well. not not until recently. The last couple of weeks have been tough. but. but this is very late in the season for that to happen. so it's actually been pretty good. and they've been doing a great job. You know. one of the concerns that I. I voice all the time. which sort of. you know. one of the reasons why I was prompted to raise the issue around this committee's role was that. is there a plan when these people don't want to do it anymore. and what are we going to do about that? So we. you know that I think they're almost done. They have a couple of weeks left. and they're doing a good job. In terms of milfoil. she wrote a note that said very little was found in the pond mid July. They watched whatever comes. whatever gets cut that goes in the conveyor for milfoil strands. Uh. they've seen less than 10 small strands from the Chat Cove area. which is where we usually see a lot. So the milfoil evidently. is not that bad right now. Tom Klemm: I'd like to. we'll keep monitoring that. but I don't want to reflexively apply for seller Procellacor every three years. because I'm concerned about resistance building up over time. So if we can. if it stays low this year and doesn't appear to be a threat. then I would like to. if we can bypass next year. maybe think about 27 if we need to do it right. Steve Garone: Well. I want to. I want to. I want to follow up with Allison. I'm literally just reading what she wrote here. and I haven't heard about it. but yes. that would be great. I can tell you that the tape grass is awful though right now. that stuff's still. still doing its thing. But she also gave us some statistics on what she's done. Okay. so. so actually. we week left. This is week six. and she has indicated she broke it down by week. but the total as of Tuesday. which is yesterday. Total pounds collected over six weeks is over 101.000 Tom Largey: Wow. Tom Klemm: What do you mean one week left? Steve Garone: Well. she they contracted for seven weeks. We're in week six so. Tom Klemm: But they okay. they did it through October last year. Was that because they lost weeks. because it was broken down. Steve Garone: yeah. we're doing few weeks this year.
Tom Klemm: Well. we're doing because it started later. but the number of weeks is the same as it was last year. right? I'm sorry. the same number of weeks as we did in 2024 Steve Garone: I'm not sure. I'm not sure about Tom Klemm: that okay. because I Okay. I mean. my assumption might have been incorrect. I assumed they were gonna I knew they were starting later. yeah. but if it's the same number of weeks. and last year they went into October. oh. yeah. I guess it makes sense if the same number of weeks. and they may have started later. but they were able to work straight through. because the the harvester didn't break down. whereas last year it broke down. Okay. Steve Garone: so again. I haven't talked to her about this report. because I just read it just before we got on here. Got it okay. but it says we are in the middle of week six of seven harvest weeks. And she sent this report yesterday. so there's one more week left after this. if this is correct. and they've worked 281 person hours.
Tom Klemm: So this started late July. So this is going to be basically how many weeks total. seven weeks. eight weeks. It's seven weeks. And was it seven weeks last year. and I know was broken up by again. Steve Garone: you asked me that I don't remember. So okay. Tom Klemm: I would be curious if the weeks Steve Garone: question and I'll. I'll get an answer. Okay. so you know that's basically what we know right now. We did have a little better cooperation from people around the pond in terms of raking. you know. Bob Smith and I are doing a lot of that. And the Leonards have a motorboat that they take out. I think. every week. where they go around and collect as much as they can collect. So we're having a little bit better
floating stuff collection than we had in the past. Okay. that's been. it's been. okay. yeah. Tom Klemm: Yeah. great. And Tom Largey. you know. again. these are just emails coming from Allison. I will compile this stuff. I always circulate it to the whole committee. and I know you want a more formal report that might be something that I can take on. and if. because Allison has done doing a lot of work already. but maybe I can take this information and put it in something in a more formal way to document the work being done. So I'll take that as an action item. Steve Garone: right. Tom Largey: Yeah. And then that case. we have a report this year that can be measured against next year and so forth. right? Yeah. So that's that's pretty darn important. Well. that amounts to assuming next week about 350 personnel hours. I don't know what they get paid. I'm sure it's somewhere in the 20s. Hard to say that's not. not too bad. I don't think. for from a cost point of view.
Steve Garone: yeah. it's not. it's. it's not our budget. though. Tom Largey: yeah. yeah. but it's the Town. The Town is spending the money. So. yeah. So what they do it four days a week. right? Is it four days a week? Steve Garone: Four days a week? Monday through Thursday. Yeah. I think the reason why they don't do it on Friday is because the town building's closed on Friday. Tom Largey: Right. All right. Well. back to the 101.000 pounds. We've been told the town no longer has a composting facility. so that was seen as a problem if we were to use a Harvester on Heard pond. But that 100.000 pounds of tape grass. Where does that go? Steve Garone: That's a you know. as you are talking. I was thinking to myself. I would love to know the answer to that myself. Tree said to me yesterday. he was. he was the end of his day. He was making jokes. and he said we got the the Sally contract for the high school. I But seriously. I don't know the answer to that. and I'll get that answer as well. Tom Largey: Okay. Tom Klemm: I have a question for you. how the 101.000 pounds? What's that estimate based on? Steve Garone: Well. she broke it down by week. and basically they they size a load at 1.500 pounds. And so they take the number of loads they do in a week and do the multiplication. Tom Klemm: Is that what the max weight of the harvester is must be. yeah. okay. yeah. I'm just curious what the what the unit was. They calculated that number from. okay. so. Steve Garone: but you reminded me of a small point as you were speaking. I got a I got an email from Norm about a week ago. He was trying to download our may report on our measurements. and he says. evidently. was never posted. I I know I sent it to you. and I think I sent it to Jailyn too.
Tom Klemm: Yeah. this is a
Steve Garone: subject matter a little bit here. Tom Klemm: Well. let's so for this one. Why don't you just send it directly to Norm. So he was looking for on our web page. Steve Garone: So. you know. it was because every time I've done this in the past. haven't been a lot of them. but I send it to I send it to the committee. and I send it to Jailyn. And I thought she usually posts it. but Tom Klemm: it's was just as well. because what. what Jailyn does is she'll create a new like a not a link. saving a thumb thumbnail. It's basically. every time we upload a new document. there's a new line that appears on our web page. which is ridiculous. What I want there to be is one tab for document library. and then you go there and you can find what you're looking for. So to send that one directly to Norm. that's that's a larger issue about how we make documentation publicly available. not only amongst this committee. but but to the public. So to send Norm that one for now. I don't think anybody else beyond the DPA cares. So if Norm has it. he can distribute it to everybody. Steve Garone: Funny thing is. Norm. Norm should have it because I'm not sure I'm going to have to do it this time. but I always have him review it. because he's done it more times than I have. But anyway. but we've had this conversation before in this committee. right about how documentation is posted in the town. And. yeah. we'll Tom Klemm: talk about that. about that that further down the agenda. because that was gonna be a topic for last time. So I'll touch on that. They get there . last thing on Dudley pond. And have you had any discussions with Allison about how we're going to capture this information? So as you say. when Alison and Tree can't or don't want to do this. we have a source document to hand off to the next person. Steve Garone: I had. I think I may have told you this. I had a long sit down with Allison about a month and a half ago to talk about a number of things around this. And one of the things I said to her is. you know. we really need to develop a best practices document. And I said I'd be happy to write it. but I have to do it in collaboration with you guys. because you guys are the ones that are out there using the equipment. etc. And we do have some material. I mean. I don't know if you knew this. but when. when the harvester first arrived and the DPW guys are out here showing people how to use it. I did. I did videos. I took videos of what they were teaching and what they were showing people. And I did that because Norm asked me to and. and then I was waiting for Norm to go. Well. you know. can you put it together in a in a whole video? And. you know. whatever. nobody ever asked me. This is before I was on the committee. So the idea to do that has been around for a while. but we haven't done it yet. So it's a very good point. because. you know. and frankly. you know. I'm I'm thinking it's important. but you know. I've also had conversations with Carol Martin who said. Well. that's the DPW's job. Don't worry. If we need to hire new people. They will do it. and they will train them. I don't know. Tom Klemm: They'll they'll train them. but there's local knowledge that they are not going to be able to impart to these people. right? Steve Garone: So. yeah. I so I did have that conversation with her. She seemed willing to do it. but. you know. then the season started. and I didn't really want to bother her. because she's just straight out. So this fall. we revisit it. Okay. all right. Tom Klemm: one last thing on Dudley pond. yeah. and kudos to our own Carole Plumb for pointing this out some time ago. there is what appeared on the town website. A few months back. was a notice that the town is contracting with an engineering firm to assess wastewater impact on Dudley pond. and turns out. this is a larger issue to determine. for example. whether there needs to be a local wastewater treatment station around Dudley pond. And there were several different proposals around that area. So it wasn't highly publicized. but Cheryl Carole has her eyes on what the town's doing. So. Part of this initiative was to have a a wastewater. a Dudley pond wastewater study group of interested residents to vet these proposals. And that committee has been formed. I am on it. Norm is on it. There's someone else in the in the Dudley pond community. who's on there. and there's a fourth person whose name I didn't recognize. Steve. are you or no. you're not on it. Steve. it's. it's Norm. And there's a fourth person Steve Garone: I literally found out about that committee. like. two days ago. from Bob Smith. I didn't even know it existed. Tom Klemm: Yeah. it was all low key. And again. if it wasn't for Carole Plumb. I wouldn't know. I mean. I'm not as good as she is sleuthing stuff out. So kudos to Carole and so again. But this whole thing is just strange. You know. this idea that the town is going to determine what may or may not need to be done around the Dudley plot area in terms of wastewater treatment. very odd how it sort of popped up out of the blue. I guess I think the originating. the source behind it was Abigail Charest. the town engineer. but maybe it predates her. I don't know. So anyways. this committee is meeting for the first time later in September. and I will be updating the committee as it goes forward. but that's I'll resend the link. You know. you can try and glean some information there. But. you know. the long term goal is. how do we obviate the the how do we mitigate from wastewater getting at the Dudley pond? And Steve. you'll recall years ago when they wanted to put a little wastewater unit down by what's now Dudley woods. for a development. You know. I think that idea is going to come back as one of the options this committee will face. So I'll resend the link to the group right now. This is just to raise awareness that the committee. the group. has been formed. Our first meeting is in September. Good news is it's mostly Dudley upon people who are on there. so I think they'll be certainly getting a critical assessment from. from us. So stay tuned. Steve Garone: So are you. are you telling me that I may not have to have a septic system anymore? Tom Klemm: Well. that's. I mean. I think. yeah. I mean. one of the. one of the. what the. what the town is looking for. is. yeah. can can we? I don't know if tying into Natick was an option. certainly a local wastewater treatment was. I think there was something about shunting it somewhere towards the high school. I think is there some wastewater? I don't know. There was a third option. but yeah. the upshot would be to not really have reliance on the cesspools that are still around there and other kinds of on site septic treatment. Can it be treated either on site in a more comprehensive way. or just sent elsewhere? It's quite vague on that. on the website. on the town the website. I'll resend the link so people can can look at that. Steve Garone: Sounds expensive. Tom Klemm: We're just rolling in money. Okay. that is all on Dudley pond and Tom Largey. I saw you yawn. We'll try and wrap it. I think it'll go pretty quick. Steve Garone: He's had a long day. Tom Klemm: Yes. Okay. okay. The next one is pretty quick. So again. our Eagle Eye Carole. she had noticed that Mass DCR is updating the their 20 year old guide to Massachusetts Lakes and Ponds and treatment options for the different kinds of invasives one might find. I looked. I was turn over the floor to Carole on that she's not here. but I was looking at it earlier this week. and there's nothing new as of yet. Basically. what the state has done is they've taken comments. There was an open period to comment on that older version. that window is closed. and the state is now taking those comments and will revise. So currently. there's nothing new in this documentation. It's the same thing from 2004. so there's no news to report as of yet. There was just an open comment period. People commented. the state's going to revise it. So I was in the impression at first that there was a new version that had been uploaded. But no. it's just the comment window is closed. The state is going to revise So more to come on that. And I'll let Carole speak more authoritatively on that. Okay. okay. something Steve. that you had brought up last time. and we can defer this one into a larger group. But you know. this the surface water it concerns the surface water quality committee's mission statement. And as founded. we are an advisory body. We are not supposed to be taking an active role. even though. in fact. we are. We just talked about water chemistry testing. Heard Pond weed management. Dudley pond. So. you know. Steve. to your point. we are already doing that stuff. and maybe it's the question of making our mission statement reflect that we're actually doing stuff and we are not simply advising the Select Board on what should be done. I will open the floor to you if you want to make any other comments around that. or if you had something more specific in mind that I am overlooking in my gloss Steve Garone: Well. all I can say is that you know the ideas came up in all first it. they started with me. Because. you know. I. when I. when I started working on this group. with this group. I started thinking about. you know. what is our role? What. what. what are we trying to accomplish? Some of that came from the fact that most of my focus has been on Dudley pond. And as you know. we have a Dudley Pond Association that tries at least to be somewhat active in weed management and things that go on around the pond. But frankly. I don't think did a very good job at that. They do a really good job at social things. but that's pretty much it. And they have money. Yes. they have some money. So people started talking to me about the fact that. well. you know. why don't. why don't you guys. you guys should really own this whole weed management thing. and you should really be controlling the budget. and you should really be. you know. figuring out what the long term plan is for all the water bodies within Wayland. And it doesn't seem like you're doing that. And I'm not sure that we can. given that we're an advisory board to these Selectmen. and we don't have a budget to do all those things. Tom Klemm: Are these comments from Dudley Folks. or just folks across town Steve Garone: Dudley Pond folks. pretty much. Tom Largey: Well. my comment is. I always felt we were doing quite a bit more than advising. We've been rolling out contracts for. Many. many years. And I think in the case of Dudley Pond. almost everything that was was done on it for many years was through Surface Water Quality. you know. various whatever there were treatments or pilots or or this or that. The difference is that Heard Pond doesn't have an association. I think we do it all there. Dudley pond has call it an Activist Association. That's that's a primary. It's quite a difference.
Steve Garone: Yeah. No. it is. It is active. as I mentioned earlier. How do I put this? It talks a lot about the kinds of issues that we're supposed to be dealing with here. and we do deal with here in terms of weed management and so on. but they have not really turned that into real action and real work. And so that kind of falls on people around Dudley pond that don't want to be affiliated with the DPA and don't want to be in Surface Water Quality. So they kind of. they're kind of renegades. if you will. Okay. so I. I get the sense that. you know. they want to really look to us. to do what they're doing. but they don't see us doing it. and they can't. They don't want to deal with the DPA. because the DPA doesn't do it at all. Tom Largey: So what are they doing? What are they doing that isn't? I mean. there's. there's a harvester on the pond. there's water testing. there's. there are periodic applications of herbicides. What are they doing otherwise? I have no idea. Never heard of Steve Garone: okay. so you bring up the harvester. right? So the harvester. I was involved in the the liaison with the DPA over the harvester. because they. to a very great extent. paid for it. okay? And there was a lot of resistance to doing that. And it took a lot of convincing to get them to. you know. give the town the funds. at least in part. to to purchase that machine. Tom Largey: So I thought the harvester of the $95.000 or whatever. was merely a line item. It was a line item in the in the town warrant several years ago. and the town paid for Steve Garone: It was. it was kind of a. there are some things it.
that there was some payments that the DPA was supposed to pay the town that they didn't pay to kind of. you know. be able to channel it toward the harvester and the conveyor. Complicated story. but basically. you know. the Dudley Pond Association. from the standpoint of dealing with weeds on the pond. has been a source of money. but that's pretty much it. Tom. do you agree with me? Do you is this what you've seen as well? Tom Klemm: So first off. I'll say I agree with Tom. I don't know. It sounds like this is conflating two different things. So one hand. they're saying we should be doing more. not only on Dudley pond. but the other ponds in town. And so I would ask as Tom did. what more do they want to say on Dudley pond? But then you segue into the whole harvester and the Dudley Pond Association was willing to pay for this. In the end. the town approved it at town meeting. But it is true that the DEP never gave back to the town money over time for this thing. so they complained that we welched on our deal. That's that's fine. I will say that I didn't try and get I've tried several. not recently. but when this. when the town first had the harvester. it was overseeing its use. I had written to several folks at the DPW to ask. Can you give me. you know. a list of what you've spent on this thing? What are the amortized costs? Because what we've done historically as the DPA in the DPA a was they would find out from the town what was spent on that seasons of management of Dudley pond. and there was a memorandum of understanding between the DPA and the town that the DPA a would contribute back or make a gift of some 20 or 25% of whatever the town spent. And that hasn't happened in at least five years. because I've not had a. Uh. or since the harvester was purchased. because I haven't gotten from the DPA what those expenses were without that number. I can't. yeah. work with Tree or Jamie on what 25% is. So I'm not quite so it's true that we haven't done that. I'm not sure what the complaint is. Are these people insisting that we pay that money. which is fine. We haven't done it. As far as actual work. as Tom said. We're doing all kinds of things on the pond. and I don't know what specifically they are thinking is missing. Steve Garone: I think. I think what. what. what I've heard. is not so much about. you're not you're not testing. you're not doing this. It's more about. you know. the long term. what's the long term plan? Do we do we need another harvester? Tom Klemm: I see Steve Garone: . how are we going to fund it? How are we going to get new people to run the harvester? What. you know. what is a long term plan for dealing with weeds on the pond. we don't really have that. we're kind of watching and going. so that's what I hear back. Tom Klemm: Okay. well. I would. you know. to those. I would say. you know. we are doing. we're we're managing milfoil with Procellacor as needed. And then for the harvester. You know. we were just talking about this tree. and Allison can't do it forever. We've got some younger people. And if you know. it's. I don't think it's too difficult to learn to use the harvester. Maybe that from within the DPA there might be somebody willing to step up into those roles. Would be because of that Allison and Tree. the thing is just going to be dormant. and not you. So. you know. I go to the DPA meetings I can present again. and maybe. and probably the people who are complaining Steve Garone: No. that's. that was my point. They don't. because they don't have anything to do with it. Tom Klemm: Yeah? So then I would. you know. I can't take those kinds of comments seriously if they're not even willing to go to a meeting and articulate what they think should be done if it's a one on one with you as they see you. So it's hard to take that seriously or even really act on it. Yeah. Steve Garone: no. I get that. I get that. So. you know. I think it's just important to recognize. I think that a lot of the drive behind a lot of things that have gone on. including the harvester. including the conveyor. and. you know. a lot of the other things that go on. are not. we're not. Are not initiated or worked on by the DPA. They're all people who no longer affiliate with the DPA. So it's kind of like. you know. I won't call it a free for all. but. you know. I think it's something that. frankly. I think we should own. Tom Klemm: Yeah. yeah. Well. I mean. I would say that we do. I We present. we give updates at the town meetings. If the people who are voicing these concerns aren't at the town meetings. they're not going to hear the updates. They're not going to be able to answer questions. So okay. noted. though. but I mean. definitely I will. We'll look into that money that we were promising to give back to the town. I'll try and follow up with the DPW. You know. maybe even aside from reaching out to DPW. the town did pay whatever that money was for a harvester. Maybe there's another way I can. yeah. have the DPA pay back some portion to the town and to sort of bypass the the DPW on that part. But I'll. I'll take that as an action item. Steve Garone: Don't. don't. don't mention my name when you do that. I won't. Tom Klemm: It'll be. it'll be an idea that came out of my own mind. recognizing that we haven't paid the town for this instrument. So I'll take care of that. Okay. let's see. I think that is it on Dudley pond. Let's see mechanical harvesting. Okay. yeah. so I guess Steve. so what you were saying. you know. this committee can still talk about whether we want to have our mission statement accurately reflect that we actually take action and are not advisory. Let me what I will do as an action. and maybe I'll sound out Carol Martin first just get her idea on changing the mission statement. just to reflect that we are actually more active than the mission statement implies. because at this point. we are taking a lot of initiative on this stuff. and the town hasn't pushed back. and I think they would probably welcome it. because this stuff is not going to be done otherwise. right? The Select Board is not going to be seeing this. So I'll take as an action to review and refresh if needed. on the mission statement. But I'll get Carol Martin's input to see how she might advise us to go ahead with this. Yeah. good idea. Or maybe she'll say. don't just keep. keep on trucking and leave things as they are. But I'll. I'll talk to Steve Garone: I have a I have a feeling I can predict what she'll say. but I won't say it Tom Klemm: Just okay. yeah. don't say it. See what happens. Yes. okay. And I think the next thing I have is September and. oh. one quick thing. I got the notice from the Town. September 30 is when the each committee's annual report is due. I've got all the information at my fingertips to do that. so just Steve Garone: which you have to do. or we disappear. I learned notifying this committee that I'm going to put that together. we should have a meeting before the end of September. I can submit a draft for folks to look at and comment on. So that is that tonight because I was really with a friend of mine in also my action to put together the annual report.
town who. when he first moved into town. was on a committee about focused on bike paths. which were really the sidewalks in town. okay? And he said. they. they never met. and they. they never wrote a report. And there's some rule that says. you know. if a year or so goes by. we don't write a report. You You're dissolved. So you gotta write that. Tom Klemm: Yeah. no. I've been doing it the past couple of years. Tom Largey: Well. an example of. you know. with the Wayland Mill Pond. We've discussed that over the years. I had some hydro raking done about 10 years ago on the shoreline of the mill pond. and it was supposedly dredged as some time in the 1970s but nobody knew anything. And so I went through the town reports which are are bound. now they're online. And so I found the town meeting article that authorized it. and how much money was spent. which is not a whole lot of money in today's terms. And I don't think people worried about permits. and they just did it. They just did it. Tom Klemm: Well. I think I suspect permits would be the least of the issue today. I'm sure it's going to cost ridiculous amounts of money. And then what do you put on that muck? Yeah. but maybe once every 50 years is a good time to do it. so I don't know. I'm not going to touch that one right now at the moment. Yeah. well. I haven't thought about that. You know. clearly. because Tom. you've mentioned. when I first enjoyed this committee. you were talking about Mill Pond. and you mentioned the hydro raking way back in the day. or the the dredging back in the day. and the hydro ranking more recently. Tom Largey: Yeah. well. if we. if they don't get into the reports. it's just lost knowledge. I don't think people go through the reports very assiduously either. but it's there. It's a record. Tom Klemm: So. yeah. that's a good in fact. I've probably not even included Mill Pond in the last few years. So let me do that. if nothing else to say. just to point out long term concerns around sediment build up and referring back to the 74 Tom Largey: Yeah. okay. yeah. yeah.
Tom Klemm: All right. refer to dredging and Hydro. Okay. The next item now is the September meeting. And Steve. I will defer to you. because I know your schedule gets quite complicated in September. So. and this is already late August. so I will be traveling mid September. So the week of the 22nd would be ideal. especially with this report due on the 30th. it'd be good to meet the week before. if possible. So Steve. what is your Week of the 22nd of September look like? Steve Garone: Well. so that I have two commitments that I've had ever since I joined the committee. Wednesday nights are a band practice that I really should not miss. That's why Wednesday nights were never good for me. Occasionally. it can work depending on which week it is. if. like. if it's. you know. a school vacation week. we don't. we don't rehearse. or whatever. And the second Tuesday of every month is. is another meeting that I have. but that's only one week a month. And I know Thursdays are out right. because we don't have somebody Tom Klemm: for whatever reason. the Town can only do a zoom up until 4pm Yeah. So that doesn't work. What about September? So that you mentioned Wednesdays? What about and your second Tuesday is out. What about Tuesday the 23rd?
Steve Garone: all other than but wait a minute. let me. Let me just check the calendar and make sure that September. Oh. yeah. So the so the second Tuesday is the ninth. so the 16th is good and the 23rd is good. Only third Tom Largey: Twenty third is fine with me. Tom Klemm: let's do the 23rd then. because that'll give me time to put this report together and then send it to people so they can comment on the 23rd and then I can make any changes before submitting it. Okay? I. September 3. Tuesday. I am Steve Garone: going to have visitors that week. but I can. I'm sure I can break away. Tom Klemm: Okay. okay. that is. that is good. We'll keep that. And then. as I mentioned. Jack Carr has. has. has had chronic issues for a while. being able to attend any meetings any night of the week. And I have a few people in mind. but they are not unfortunately. but they are they're Dudley pond people. I'm very sensitive to this committee membership being a bunch of folks who live on Dudley Pond because Steve Garone: Hold on. Can I back you up a minute? Yes. I just remembered something. I am I'm not. I'm not available on the 23rd typically. I am. but I have something going on that night. I'm sorry.
Tom Klemm: Alright. let's see this 16th is only a couple weeks away. Alright. let's just do it on what is the 30th is? That is the following Tuesday. Let's just. how about the 30th? Then September 30? Tom Largey: Fine with me
Steve Garone: that? See. I thought it was due on the 30th. Tom Klemm: Well. I'll just have to circulate it. and people can make comments. and let's do it that way. Okay? Because I got earlier. I That's just too soon after this meeting. I'm not going to have it done anyways. So let's just do the 30th and I'll circulate before then folks can send their comments to me individually. but you know.
so Steve. confirming that the 30th Tuesday Steve Garone: is okay. yeah. that should that should be fine. Okay. we'll do that then. And Tom Klemm: Tom Largey. you said the 30th is final service is fine with me. Okay. very good. Okay. so getting back to what I was saying. so I'd like to Jack is willing to vacate his seat if we have. if we can get a new another person. And so I don't know if. and I. fortunately. my network is all here. and this part of town. the Dudley Pond part of town. Steve. I don't know if you know anybody else where Tom Largey. but if you can think of somebody who might be able to who'll be willing to serve on this committee. and maybe isn't in the southern part of town. you know. sound them out. and let's. let's see if They're interested. because Jack is willing to step aside. He doesn't be able to make it. And. you know. last month. we had a quorum issue. And so I'd like to with five people. We should never have a quorum issue. So Jack is willing to vacate the seat. So if anybody. if either of you can think of somebody who might be willing to serve. send them my way. Tom Largey: Yeah. Well. you know. of course. Jack was looking after Lake Cochituate before him. Linwood Bradford was and that the fact that it's DCR owns it. basically makes it awfully hard to even keep track of what's going on there. let alone influence anything it's it's a tough. tough job. you know. for committee members. that certainly seems to work where somebody has some ownership. which. you know. as as an example. In the past. we had Mike Lowery and then Tony Moore's engineer interested in the testing. And so otherwise. people just come and they kind of listen it. it. it's. it's hard to get. I think. to hold on to people. unless there's something. somehow that they have ownership of. Carole. she's pretty avid. She's seems to have ownership of. oh. I don't know. Tom Klemm: Town beach
Tom Largey: like that. which keeps her going. Tom Klemm: It's Tom. Let me was Tony. Would Tony? More? You think be interested? I can reach out to him. I have his email. would he Tom Largey: No? You know he's no. When he resigned. he resigned. apparently. his wife as well. She was in a car accident many years ago. and there's some issue there. And no. I think he's. I think he's flat out of out of it. He put many years into it. Yeah. he did. Another fellow was Bob Goldsmith. And right. I remember him. and you know. Bob was interested in things. and to the point where once I took him on my little boat across Dudley pond and deposited him on. I told him it wasn't a good idea deposited him on a far shoreline. These shorelines are difficult. He was ready to get back in the boat in a minute. but it was nothing like Dudley pond. You know. you step onto something round that moves and you realize it might be a snapping turtle. Happened to me once. well anyway. but I. while you were mentioning. I went over a mental list of some acquaintances I have. And by the way. Steve. do you know. do you know Larry? I mean Larry Kiernan. no. oh. you mentioned the bike path. and Larry was super on the on the on the bike path. He was a prime. prime pusher. I And. oh. that you talking about the rail trail. Yeah. the rail. the rail. Oh. I love the rail trail. Yeah. but you don't know Larry K i. e r n. a n. but I'm not certain he's interested in water. but he was super on the rail trail committee. Somebody I know of you know otherwise we have down the street is Shannon Fisher. who's a new ConCom member. and so she was and she's all for trees. I volunteered to I sent her a note saying I'd be glad to take her on a tour of the water bodies in Wayland. But we haven't found the time. She hasn't found the time yet. So just hard to say Tom Klemm: Tom. that guy who lives near Heard pond. is he in Wayland or Tom Largey: he lives in Sudbury? He lives in Sudbury. right? Yeah. yeah. yeah. He lives in Sudbury. There is a fellow. Brian Moore. who lives on the Wayland right past her. Uh. heard pond. He's a physician. and he did join the historic commission because he wanted to do something. But I haven't seen him for quite a while. In fact. I'm wondering if he didn't move or something like that. I. you know. from time to time. I engage people who are might be fishing or walking around the pond. This fellow Brian. he and his family did frequently. Turns out most of the fishermen are from Framingham. Natick. Marlboro. Sudbury. not too many from Wayland. Tom Klemm: Okay. all right. Well. as you. as you guys. were talking to spark some creative thinking in my mind. So I've got some names down here that I'll I can reach out to. Tom Largey: But yeah. you know. there is a new Wayland Post newspaper. Do all of you see it? I write? Yes. yeah. Well. that's. you know. as an example. Today. I was. I did have a hard day. I. besides the pond in the morning. I played two chess games this afternoon. one against my nemesis. I beat him this time. but we are starting a Wayland chess gathering on Thursdays. So I'm going to write some kind of something about it. but I'm not going to do it until September or October. It's summertime right now. but the thought is. if you run something in the Wayland post. that somebody might see it and and you know. around us. we've had new people move in. and a fellow three. three doors down is on the assessors committee. This Shannon Fisher. is on ConCom. Others with young families. but they're not particularly water oriented. but some of them seem to be a pretty public spirited as gotta be a way to reach some of those and maybe the Wayland Post some. some something in there. Tom Klemm: Tom. let me know about that Wayland chess group. My brothers are getting me involved in chess. and I'm terrible at it. so maybe I can go and stink up the join at the Wayland chess club. but I. I'm trying to get better at this. I'm playing online and getting beat by people. I might as well get beat face to face. Oh. let me know. Well. Tom Largey: I'm available loads of evenings. so maybe we could get together. Tom Klemm: Okay. well. you might. you might tire of me as a competitor if you're really good at it. because you might just you. Yeah. but okay. I'll follow up with you on that. Okay. alrighty. okay. Steve Garone: So. speaking of the bike path. I wrote. I wrote an article or a column. I guess. in the Wayland post about rail trail etiquette. Tom Largey: I think I saw that Steve Garone: I do a lot of bike riding on the rail trail. some running. And. you know. people need to treat that the rail trail like. you know. car road with two directions. and they don't often do it. And I've seen people get hurt because people are in the wrong place. Tom Largey: Yeah. yeah. I think I saw that article. yeah. Steve Garone: By the way. I want to make sure we're done with our business. Tom. we are. I was going to adjourn once we're done. I was going to ask if. if you guys know new Steve Green. no. I don't. Yeah. He lives. He lives over on Pine Needle down Cochituate. lived. We got a surprise a couple of days ago. He was driving up in Maine. long story as to the circumstances. and some kid going 123 miles an hour. ran into him and killed him. Tom Largey: Oh. my lord. Tom Klemm: was he driving or on a bike? Steve Garone: He was driving at a in a pickup truck. and his wife was up in Maine for a 50th high school reunion. and he didn't want to go because he didn't know anybody. And I think he was either running errands or driving back to Wayland. and we. a lot of us. went to his funeral today. Wow. wow. You know you gotta live for the moment. because things can change just like that. Tom Largey: Yeah. Any of you ever know David Lane? No. well. he lived in Cochituate. He was. he is. he was a well known artist. He had sculptures on his front lawn. And this is quite a few years ago. but he was well known in town. and so he was teaching at. I guess. Wellesley College several years ago. and a deer jumped in front of his car and shattered the windshield and killed him. So you never know. You never know. Tom Klemm: So there was a house near. did he live on School Street? Because there was a house on School Street had these huge sculpture Tom Largey: that was. that was a. that was a. yeah. yeah. That was a. I used to joke with my wife about getting one of those sculptures. but just a joke. Tom Klemm: yeah. no. we didn't know we Yeah. Okay. alright. Well. that was that concluded our business. So thank you for aligning on that date for our next meeting. If there's nothing else. I would make a motion that we adjourn at 8:34pm Tom Largey: I second that Tom Klemm: let's go around the room. Steve Garone: Steve Garone. aye Tom Largey: Tom Largey. aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem aye Awesome. Alright. everyone. Have a great Labor Day weekend. We'll talk to you guys at the at the end of September. Steve Garone: Alrighty. take care. Tom Largey: bye. bye.
last month's meeting. So we'll touch on the topics that we had on the agenda back in July. and then new developments since that time. So let me call my agenda up here on the town side. Any public comment? By any chance. I don't think we have anybody on town side. Okay. next item on the agenda is to approve the minutes from our June 18 meeting. I sent those for circulation. If anybody has any comments we can discuss. If not. I will make a motion to approve the minutes from June 18. Tom Largey: I second that motion. Tom Klemm: okay. and then let's go around the room.
Tom Largey: Tom Largey aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone aye. Tom Klemm: and Tom Klem. aye thank you. wonderful.
Okay. first item up. Heard Pond status on the herbicide treatment and hand harvesting of water chestnut. Tom Largey. the floor is yours to give Steve the update on. Tom Largey: okay. well. there was a lot has gone on this summer. both on hand pulling and an herbicide treatment. So the first herbicide treatment. it was around the middle of July. and a second one just. I think it was August 6. and so that was the South Cove. If you look at a map of Heard pond. I also call it the Southwest Cove. It's on the southwest side. So we've had two herbicide treatments. And Tom Klem and I were out a couple of weeks ago to look at it. and at that time. we saw in the treated area plants were were not healthy. but they were still living. So there was a concern then that they could still drop seeds. Because when these plants drop seeds. you know. the total would be in the 10s of 1000s. I was going to go out today to take a look. I load. I try not to go out on a hot. hot day. Today was a cold morning and but I happened to run into the fellow from SOLitude who was winding up the hand pulling so I asked him to go out there and look at the distressed plants. And also. it turns out. and this is quite a problem. a big problem. when Tom Klem and I. Tom Klem particular. going through the whole NOI process. and there was an issue with approval from US Fish and Wildlife. because about 95% of Heard pond is surrounded by fish and wildlife land. And it turns out. we had originally come in with a map that showed Heard pond. but it's not as simple as that. because some of Heard pond. as in fish and wildlife land. and that was finally straightened out. but the herbicide applicators were constrained from applying the herbicide in the Fish and Wildlife land. So when Tom Klem and I were out there a couple of Sundays ago. we could see. and it's very mucky stuff. and we could see there seemed to be a band of brighter green on the other side of all of the treated water chestnuts. So this fellow this morning. went in there. I asked him to measure the extent of. And roughly. by the way Tom. there was an email from Jeff Castellani. Did you see that it came about four or five o'clock? Yeah. briefly before the meeting. yeah. with a number of photos. which it turns out. you have to log into Google to view. and that was a little onerous for me. Tom Klemm: Let me. I can do that. I'll forward them to you. if my login Tom Largey: so anyway. and there was an error this fellow. Rocco. who was out this morning. He made a an error between left and right. and because he was talking about the part of the pond that abuts the barrier between it and the Sudbury River. and he used left instead of right. and right takes you down more southerly and more westerly. So what he said. told Jeff. and it's in Jeff's email. is that and he uses canoe to for cover. to measure it. But starting in that area with the wetlands between the pond and the Sudbury river. there was a band of about 20 feet of untreated plants. And it kind of goes around and to the right. I left Jeff a message on that. We'll have to get that straightened out to about a band of about 50 feet wide down at the very far end of the pond. So that's untreated. Also Rocco pulled some of the plants and looked at them and felt that either the seeds were dead. and when they're dead. they're black. if they're good seeds. they're green. But these were dead seeds. seeds. and what. a week or so ago. I talked to this fellow at SOLitude Tanner Pool and raised a concern that all these plants that Tom Klem and I saw. they were still living. They were just kind of brownish. or. you know. he could. or whatever. and they assured me that the plants would not have the energy to produce the seeds. And that. apparently. is what Rocco saw this morning. So by the way. was the name Rocco. He does. he's. he's just an older retired guy. He's. he doesn't look like a gangster or anything like that. But anyway. so the fact of the that green band of unharvested plant is a extremely serious situation looking into the future. if not perpetuity. because in future years. if we can't treat that. then. you know. if you were to take a couple of 100 yards of plants. very dense. 20 to 50 feet. foot band. you're talking 1000s of plants that can drop 10s of 1000s of seeds so that that can never be controlled. That's serious issue. We really didn't
we. meaning I and Tom. unless we were out in the pond with GPS. we could never tell which was fish and wildlife which wasn't. you know. they had to work out the measurements on the GPS.
anyway. So that's the treated area. On the untreated area. there are three. three pulling days in July. about 17. Tom Klemm: Let me pause you there. before we go on to the hand. the hand pulling part of this So Steve. just to get you.... to summarize what Tom was saying. You know. we went into this we were hoping to get the permit for the Clearcast. treat that south part of the pond. and ideally wipe out the plants that were there. Yeah. but based on what Tom was saying. some of that water was still in fish and wildlife territory. so it couldn't be treated. It's a pretty big band. And even the areas. we did treat. it's uncertain how effective that was. So it's. it's very likely. and Tom Langey let me know if you agree with this. that it's. it'll be hard to tell next season whether we were effective. and that's gonna be a combination of because we couldn't treat all the area and even the area that was treated. those plants still may have dropped viable seeds. so we'll have to see. But it's questionable whether this year. bought us any time or made any gains beyond the hand harvesting. Tom Largey: yeah. well. also from year to year is this variability. You know. the history of the pond was that we started in 2003 proceeded through to 2016 and had great success. and the pond appeared to be terrific. shoreline to shoreline. All of a sudden. 50.000 plants in 2016 the pulling crews were overwhelmed. Many 10s of 1000s. if not hundreds of 1000s of seeds were dropped in 2016. The viability you know. there's a curve. A huge number of seeds are viable in the next. first several years. and then it tapers off. But it's a long. long tail. They had said seven years. and the literature said 10 and 10 to 12. 12. to 15. I'm convinced a Heard pond is 20 years those. The science is lacking a little bit there. So I'm certain that there are 10s of 1000s. hundreds of 1000s of seeds in that area. some number which will come next year. But I am heartened by Rocco this morning looking at some plants and not seeing any viable seeds on the plants. Oh.
Tom Klemm: go ahead. Steve. Steve Garone: no. I'm curious about this dichotomy between what we can do. where we can do something. and where we can't. because it's Fish and Wildlife. How does that part that we can't treat get treated? What is the process? Tom Largey: Well. it can't be unless they're not going to do it. I think off off season. we're going to have to pursue that with Fish and Wildlife. That's another round of permitting that we may have. I'm talking personally may or may not have the stomach for and with expenses unknown. Tom Klem is. is pretty good at that stuff. but my. oh. my. it's. it's just a difficult situation. Tom Klemm: to me. what's. what's a bit frustrating about that is. I don't recall hearing that at any of the prior meetings. Now. it just seemed like we could treat that whole. anything that was in the water was was treatable. And so to learn after later. at least to me. it sounds like this is information learned after the fact. when it could have been communicated earlier. Now. in practice. it wouldn't have made any difference. because Tom as you say. we'd need to get Fish and Wildlife approval. But that's a bit of a surprise to learn after they've applied that they couldn't get that innermost part. the closest to shore part. because of this overlay with Fish and Wildlife. Tom Largey: And well. you know. I think what instigated it was last fall. And. oh. the. what do they call that? The. the. what is it? MEPA. Mass EPA. and on to Fish and Wildlife. Yes. those things are not questioned in earlier years and and in fact. for many years. most years. I've sent a report to Fish and Wildlife. and we describe all of that. and it was hand pulling or harvesting. although around 2002 there was a an application of an herbicide in the pond. I. I was not a. not a principal on that. and I just have no records about that Fish and Wildlife knew about it. They approved of it. but then all of a sudden you get into this permitting process. and it got sticky. and so it's just. it's. you know. I like to say that's you. That's part of what Mr. Trump got elected for. Because regulations. regulations. regulations. it's extremely difficult. And. you know. this is a prime example. Tom Klemm: yeah. this is learning it at a micro level. And you can imagine a bigger project that they'd have to go through. But. Steve Garone: oh yeah. doesn't being able to deal with what you're dealing with on like only one part of the pond. Compro. uh. compromise. doesn't get compromised what you're doing when the other half you can't do it with. Tom Largey: So absolutely. absolutely. Tom Klemm: Well. no. I'm not sure I agree. I mean. it means that the perimeter encroaches. but it encroaches up to the point where we can begin treating it. So. yes. we can treat that area closer to shore. It just means that's. that's land that's that's now lost to the water chestnuts. So it doesn't prevent any other work that we're doing. I like the work that we did accomplish. but that perimeter is now is less than it was before. Tom Largey: because that's what water chest spread. So inevitably you know. when the seeds drop. they don't always drop directly to the bottom. Things happen. You know. there are strong winds that this is very shallow water. can roll up the bottom. and just like anything else. they're going to inevitably spread. What the rate is is hard to say. but they will tend to spit. the seeds will tend to spill into the rest of the pond. That's. that's. that's. that's a problem. So we can treat next year and the year after. But there's in particular. the area that's closest to the untreated area. there are going to be more plants. The seeds just spill and they're impossible to count. Just impossible
Tom Klemm: Tom. Do you want to go on to Steve Garone: the you want to count seeds? Is that what you said. What? What are you counting when you say they're impossible to count? Tom Largey: Well. as an example. in 2016 I. I went and bought at town of Wayland. expense. a clam rake. Okay. that's when I had more energy and went into the South Cove and tried a little raking. and decided it was a very difficult endeavor. So then we had SOLitude come in and dredge up some chunks off the bottom and bring that. I forgot how they did it. bring that dripping mess aboard and look for water chestnut seeds. And they've they were hard to find. They just say. even though. okay. we were knew. we knew where there you can't do it's hard to do more than that. and that's all expensive. so. but the clam rake is still in my shed. It's town of Wayland property. If anybody wants to rake clams. they could borrow it. I should turn it over to DPW or somebody I don't know. I've got the rake Steve Garone: We could probably use it. I got Tom Largey: a friend. seriously. uh. I'll bring it by tomorrow. Steve Garone: I'll want to. I want to see it first. Tom Largey: Well. it's a clam rake right? It's got tongs. it's but it would probably do great on tape grass. Oh.
Steve Garone: boy. wow. Anyway. Tom Klemm: let's. let's so Tom. The other part of this is the hand harvesting part. So why don't you talk about that part and some of the challenges we're facing there? Or. I guess. more accurate. to say that SOLitude is facing. and that's by indirectly impacts us and our ability to manage Tom Largey: Yeah. well.Jeff had reported earlier they did 3 days on the main part of the pond. the open water area. the South Cove is not open water. It's wall to wall weeds. despite the fact that 10 years ago. it was open water and we cleared it bank to bank. and we nevertheless still had this Those are really hard to do. and you pull a plant and around 2009 we we had a project there. and several of us on the committee. tremendous infestation of long dormant seeds. But anyway. and get out there. I got waders. We had laundry baskets with floats on them. We're pulling laundry baskets and waiting through the shallows in the pond. which is not much fun. but you'd do a an we had allocated seven pulling days at $1.200 a day. plus area one week. and the next week there'd be plants back. because those plants are hidden under the water lilies so and for years and years. I've made a special point through the season $1.500 for a report. comes out to $9.900 and so they used three to tell SOLitude to please get the water water lilies so they have and they. and what Jeff is saying in this note that I mentioned. that you Tom and I got. was that they pulled in July. and Then there seems to have been a second propagation in July. pulled 1.700 plants from open water areas. Then last event. more seeds came up. So many more seeds in the or plants in the open water area. Tom Klem and I saw some when we were out Friday. they came back and used four more days. including today. a couple Sundays ago. I'd call that sporadic. But what I really wanted them to pay attention to was the area the approaches to the South Cove. outside the treated area and Tom Klem and I have pulled approximately 4.000 plants. including many. many saw quite a few plants there a couple of Sundays ago. So this fellow. Rocco. went out surveyed that. reported to Jeff . In this letter. Jeff is recommending that we have two additional days along Pelham Island Road and other parts of the pond. or of pulling to get those plants that are outside of the treated area. which would be $2.400. it turns out. the last two. three years. we've exceeded our 9.900 by some amount every year. So quite a few water lilies. $2.400 Tom Klemm: by about. a by a couple $1.000 every year. Tom Largey: Yeah. yeah. Well. a couple of years ago was 12.000 more. But anyway. I'd like to make a motion that. and I don't know how much money we have in our accounts. I think this is a serious issue. We're going to run out of money on some on some things. somehow. But I would like to make a motion that we approve two additional hand pulling days at $1.200 each to
pull the area outside of the treated area. Tom Klemm: we will be able to manage that. I mean. it's a few $1.000 I'm willing to approve this. and we'll. we'll manage to have to push it off into the next fiscal year. or something. We can do that. So that's a small dollar. So I. I second that. Steve Garone: I want to. just want to ask a question about that. because one of the things I want to talk about in relation to Dudley Pond is that we're coming up on the fall measurements that we need to do. Tom Klemm: Yeah. that's on the agenda. We'll talk about that Steve Garone: Okay? And. you know. I want to make sure that we're not that we have that money in place as well. Yep. I don't want to jump ahead. but if we're adding
Tom Klemm: yeah and right now. well. I'll have time to show the the budget and where we are. Okay. great. You know. this may impact stuff like Procellacor core down the road. but we'll. we'll see. I mean. this is a few $1.000 let's. let's do. This now. I mean. I think we're going to be in reactive mode for for a lot of this stuff. So I second the motion for two more days of manual water test harvesting on hard pond. And now let's go through a roll call vote. Tom Largey: Tom Largey. aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem aye. All right. You got it Tom. Tom Largey: okay. oh. go ahead. Tom. oh. that's about all I have to say about Heard Pond. You know. I'm 85 years old. I still move around pretty well. but my. oh. my. this. this goes on endlessly. I used and so Tom Klemm: well. I did want to touch on on a point. Steve Garone: Tom. are you grooming a successor? Telling us? Are you grooming a successor? Is that what you're telling us? Tom Largey: Well. very luckily. Mister Clem has done admirably with the paperwork. with the paper. which I have no stomach for anymore. yeah. Tom Klemm: but what you need are. what you know. are boots on the ground. so to speak. yeah. and Tom. you know. one thing you pointed out is that and Steve. you know. SOLitude doesn't have their own crews for this. they have to get involved. Well. not volunteers. They've got to hire people. which has been difficult. They've been using Charles River Canoe and Kayak until recently. this year was Tom they hired volunteers. Who do they know what it was?
Tom Largey: Yeah. they it's a little confusing. Actually. the president of Charles River Canoe was out on the pond Saturday and Sunday. I didn't know that. and that was a non contractual day. That's for them to figure out. not us. but these guys that were doing the pulling are mighty. mighty independent guys. They would fit right in at a biker bar. and that's how they look. And you know. crews like this are hard to pull together. That's that's all there is to it. But this fellow. Rocco. who is out there. he normally drives a harvester and drives there equipment. but they pulled them in to do this so because they can't get kids. and it's just awfully difficult. Tom Klemm: Yeah. so Steve. the problem is multiple so first of all. SOLitude has to hire the crews. which is difficult for them to do. which means we can't control the timing of when they do this. I mean. Tom has said many times. you want to get these plants before they drop seeds. so we can't control that. They're now dropping seeds. There's still a lot of plants in the water. and then we get charged by the day. and it sounds like the guys out there today were in kayaks. which has a much less capacity than. for example. Tom your boat. So we're paying the same amount for a day. whether it's a kayak or some guy in a boat who can haul in sacks of stuff. So you know. these things work against us to get a really good harvesting to get the most bang for our buck. so to speak. That's gonna be a chronic challenge. oh? But that's Unknown: okay. Yeah.
Steve Garone: you don't. You're not grooming a successor. is what you're saying. We already have them. Tom Klemm: He's just. he's just pointing out that he can't do it forever. None of us can. Tom Largey: You know what? A few years ago. when we had a different mix on the committee? Yes. you know. there was Mike Lowery who had a pontoon boat could tool around Dudley pond. and that one or two others had kayaks. Linwood Bradford had his boat on Lake Cochituate. And it sure helps. if you're on surface water quality. to have members who have boats. and what Unknown: what water I'm Tom Largey: one of them. yeah. well. I'll bring you out to Heard pond anytime we can do a survey. Steve Garone: You want to transport my boat over there. That's fine. Tom Largey: anyway. Steve Garone: So moving on. Tom Klemm: Yeah. so Okay. let me. let's go on. sort of moving on to Dudley Pond. And before we get into some i into some larger topics. let's take care of some quick business. The first is we do have an invoice. So recall that few months ago. we contracted with ARC. aquatic I always get the name wrong. Aquatic Restoration. something to do a survey of the flora in Dudley Pond. pre and post harvest. mechanical harvesting season. So they've done that first survey. and we received an invoice for it. I sent it around to everybody. It's for $2.400 odd dollars. And so my first request is that we. I'm making a motion that we approve payment to ARC for that first survey that they had performed for us. Steve Garone: Second. Tom Klemm: thank you. And let's go around the virtual room to approve or not. Tom Largey: Tom Largey aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone. aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem. aye. thank you. Okay? And then another quick one. Steve. you had alluded to it earlier. There's the fall water chemistry testing coming up. Do you want to make a motion to approve expenditure of about? It's about $2.000 right? Steve Garone: Yeah. somewhere in that ballpark. I don't have the exact amount. Shouldn't change. One of the things I want to. I want to just bring this up. This one's going to be a little bit tricky. And the reason is. you know. half of the testing is done by me submitting. then the samples I get to a lab case. and the other one is done by a guy named Ben Weatherall. Tom Klemm: Oh. right. Steve Garone: He comes out with his meter. Well. Ben has changed companies. and while he's willing to do it this fall. he has to do it on his own time. which means a weekend. So we're trying to work out the logistics. because it turns out that one) his testing and my testing need to be done at around the same time. And two) one of the tests that I do requires it get to the lab within 24 hours. So that kind of puts us on a Sunday. and Ben is willing to do a Sunday. so I think we're going to be able to work it out in this fall. but I don't think Ben's going to be available in the future. which means we'll either have to train me to do it and rent the equipment or find somebody else. Tom Klemm: Does Ben do any. I'm recollecting that Ben has his multimeter. and he's looking at oxidation. Steve Garone: dissolved oxygen. you know. Tom Klemm: So the question is. is it all stuff that's read off of this meter? Or there are there tests involved that he does or sends? No. Steve Garone: no. I do those. He just use that meter. So. I mean. one of the alternatives is. after this fall. I can somehow get trained on using the meter. and we just have to rent it. and that might actually make things cheaper. But we haven't answered that question yet. Tom Klemm: hasn't Mike lower you used the meter before? Could Mike train you on it? Because if it's just a handheld meter. Steve Garone: I wasn't aware of that. so I'll find out. Tom Klemm: Okay. but the upside is that. then we'll do it this fall. but beyond that. we need to Steve Garone: Exactly Tom Klemm: Okay. Steve Garone: right. So we're aiming now for probably October 5. which is a Sunday. So the logistics are going to be that. you know. he may. he may be able to go out in the afternoon. He prefer the morning. but we should do it on the same day. but I would have to go out after 3pm so that they can get that sample back to the lab within 24 hours. Tom Klemm: So that is the day of the Dudley Pond Fun Run. So if you can coordinate all of it for the afternoon. it might be better. Steve Garone: right? I forgot about that. Tom Klemm: So the morning might be tough if you're if he's thinking about parking at Mansion beach to do his thing. Steve Garone: NAH let him park in my driveway. Okay? Forgot about that. which is interesting. because I usually do that run. So maybe we'll make it a different weekend. Tom Klemm: okay. but yeah. let me and I hope Ben does a good job writing those reports. But as far as collecting data. if it's just the multimeter. the multimeter. then we should be able to manage that ourselves. and as you say. it'll be a bit of a cost saver. Yeah. Okay. so he'll do it this fall. but after that. we're on our own Steve Garone: to figure out a new way to do it. Okay? Tom Largey: Well. there has been a. you know. in the in the past. surface water quality has bought some equipment and Carole Plumb. I think I don't know. a year. two or three years ago. has raised the issue of some of this equipment. and it turns out. you need supplies to run the equipment. and the equipment is maybe obsolete and so forth. So which. you know there. there's stuff lurking around there. but maybe difficult to use. and may be expensive to use. Tom Klemm: You are correct.She was talking about the. I believe it was the pH probe. and it hadn't been used in a while. and it was going to take some rejuvenation. if that's even possible. I possible. Steve Garone: So things that we measure. what's that pH? So one of the things Tom Klemm: we measure. right? And so Ben's got one of these things. so we. if we have to rent from him. that's probably going to be that there goes any cost savings. right? Potentially. Steve Garone: I'm not sure. does he have it. or does he rent Tom Klemm: it? I don't know anything you could ask Norm. because Norm and Ben have been doing this for years. so check with him. I just. you know. they take care of it. And so I don't know exactly the how of it. but yeah. check it with Norm. Okay. you know. I wouldn't be. you know. I don't know. Actually. no. Ben does measure at multiple spots. Steve Garone: And what I do know is that Ben. in our discussions about this. said. when he can't do it. we would have to rent it. So we'd have to find out from him where to rent it. and somehow get trained. or read an instruction manual. or talk to Tom. I'm sorry. talk to Mike Lowery. Okay. we'll figure it out. Tom Klemm: Okay In the meantime. did we so I made the motion? Did we actually take a vote on that. or did we go right into some questions? Steve Garone: I just interrupted you. so let's Tom Klemm: Okay. Well. sorry. the second. okay. well. let me just. let's start again. So motion to approve expenditure for Fall water chemistry testing on Dudley pond on the order of $2.000 is there a second? Steve Garone: Second? Tom Klemm: Thank you. and let's go around the virtual room. Tom Largey: Tom Largey . aye Steve Garone: Steve Garone . aye
Tom Klemm: thank you. Tom Clem. aye. okay. very good. Those are the two. Let's see approval. Okay. excuse me. we had a topic last time. And Steve. I don't know if you want to talk more about this revenue updates. You know the my guess first. before we get into that. I know Alison has sent some updates on the harvesting. I have not had a chance to read those. Steve. do you want to give an update? Are we? Is that thing broken down again? Are we making a great headway? What's the Steve Garone: I haven't. I haven't in front of me. What's funny was that I see Allison almost every day. I run out to the beach. I talk to her and I. and she said she sent me something before the meeting. and so I hadn't seen anything. so I said I wrote her a note today. and said. Are you going to send something? Well. she sent it to you and me on the town email. as opposed I think she was going to send it directly to me in my personal email. so I literally saw it right before we started this meeting. So I have it up in front of me. And basically there are. there are two parts to it.
She did tell me. by the way. this is not in her report that this from the from the standpoint everything's relative. from the standpoint of the efficacy and the use of the harvester over the course of the weeks we're using it. it's been the best year so far. The fewest breakdowns. you know. problems that did crop up were fixed fairly quickly. and that we also shifted. as you know. the starting point. which turned out to be a really good decision this year. Tom Largey: are you talking about the depth? Steve Garone: No. about the date that we started harvest? Oh yeah. okay. toward the end of July. and that that worked out really well. I was really surprised. because I have a pontoon boat on the pond. and usually the tape grass issues crop up a lot earlier in this season that they did this year. We think that might have been due to the fact where we. we when we measured the Secchi depth in the spring. it's usually like 11 or 12 feet. Yup. it was like 8. 8 one half feet at the most. So we think for some reason the pond was not as clear as it was. maybe less sunlight got down then. That might have retarded the regrowth a little bit. but we're not sure. Tom Klemm: So there's been no complaints then from residents about weeds fouling their props. Steve Garone: not that I know of now. Well. not not until recently. The last couple of weeks have been tough. but. but this is very late in the season for that to happen. so it's actually been pretty good. and they've been doing a great job. You know. one of the concerns that I. I voice all the time. which sort of. you know. one of the reasons why I was prompted to raise the issue around this committee's role was that. is there a plan when these people don't want to do it anymore. and what are we going to do about that? So we. you know that I think they're almost done. They have a couple of weeks left. and they're doing a good job. In terms of milfoil. she wrote a note that said very little was found in the pond mid July. They watched whatever comes. whatever gets cut that goes in the conveyor for milfoil strands. Uh. they've seen less than 10 small strands from the Chat Cove area. which is where we usually see a lot. So the milfoil evidently. is not that bad right now. Tom Klemm: I'd like to. we'll keep monitoring that. but I don't want to reflexively apply for seller Procellacor every three years. because I'm concerned about resistance building up over time. So if we can. if it stays low this year and doesn't appear to be a threat. then I would like to. if we can bypass next year. maybe think about 27 if we need to do it right. Steve Garone: Well. I want to. I want to. I want to follow up with Allison. I'm literally just reading what she wrote here. and I haven't heard about it. but yes. that would be great. I can tell you that the tape grass is awful though right now. that stuff's still. still doing its thing. But she also gave us some statistics on what she's done. Okay. so. so actually. we week left. This is week six. and she has indicated she broke it down by week. but the total as of Tuesday. which is yesterday. Total pounds collected over six weeks is over 101.000 Tom Largey: Wow. Tom Klemm: What do you mean one week left? Steve Garone: Well. she they contracted for seven weeks. We're in week six so. Tom Klemm: But they okay. they did it through October last year. Was that because they lost weeks. because it was broken down. Steve Garone: yeah. we're doing few weeks this year.
Tom Klemm: Well. we're doing because it started later. but the number of weeks is the same as it was last year. right? I'm sorry. the same number of weeks as we did in 2024 Steve Garone: I'm not sure. I'm not sure about Tom Klemm: that okay. because I Okay. I mean. my assumption might have been incorrect. I assumed they were gonna I knew they were starting later. yeah. but if it's the same number of weeks. and last year they went into October. oh. yeah. I guess it makes sense if the same number of weeks. and they may have started later. but they were able to work straight through. because the the harvester didn't break down. whereas last year it broke down. Okay. Steve Garone: so again. I haven't talked to her about this report. because I just read it just before we got on here. Got it okay. but it says we are in the middle of week six of seven harvest weeks. And she sent this report yesterday. so there's one more week left after this. if this is correct. and they've worked 281 person hours.
Tom Klemm: So this started late July. So this is going to be basically how many weeks total. seven weeks. eight weeks. It's seven weeks. And was it seven weeks last year. and I know was broken up by again. Steve Garone: you asked me that I don't remember. So okay. Tom Klemm: I would be curious if the weeks Steve Garone: question and I'll. I'll get an answer. Okay. so you know that's basically what we know right now. We did have a little better cooperation from people around the pond in terms of raking. you know. Bob Smith and I are doing a lot of that. And the Leonards have a motorboat that they take out. I think. every week. where they go around and collect as much as they can collect. So we're having a little bit better
floating stuff collection than we had in the past. Okay. that's been. it's been. okay. yeah. Tom Klemm: Yeah. great. And Tom Largey. you know. again. these are just emails coming from Allison. I will compile this stuff. I always circulate it to the whole committee. and I know you want a more formal report that might be something that I can take on. and if. because Allison has done doing a lot of work already. but maybe I can take this information and put it in something in a more formal way to document the work being done. So I'll take that as an action item. Steve Garone: right. Tom Largey: Yeah. And then that case. we have a report this year that can be measured against next year and so forth. right? Yeah. So that's that's pretty darn important. Well. that amounts to assuming next week about 350 personnel hours. I don't know what they get paid. I'm sure it's somewhere in the 20s. Hard to say that's not. not too bad. I don't think. for from a cost point of view.
Steve Garone: yeah. it's not. it's. it's not our budget. though. Tom Largey: yeah. yeah. but it's the Town. The Town is spending the money. So. yeah. So what they do it four days a week. right? Is it four days a week? Steve Garone: Four days a week? Monday through Thursday. Yeah. I think the reason why they don't do it on Friday is because the town building's closed on Friday. Tom Largey: Right. All right. Well. back to the 101.000 pounds. We've been told the town no longer has a composting facility. so that was seen as a problem if we were to use a Harvester on Heard pond. But that 100.000 pounds of tape grass. Where does that go? Steve Garone: That's a you know. as you are talking. I was thinking to myself. I would love to know the answer to that myself. Tree said to me yesterday. he was. he was the end of his day. He was making jokes. and he said we got the the Sally contract for the high school. I But seriously. I don't know the answer to that. and I'll get that answer as well. Tom Largey: Okay. Tom Klemm: I have a question for you. how the 101.000 pounds? What's that estimate based on? Steve Garone: Well. she broke it down by week. and basically they they size a load at 1.500 pounds. And so they take the number of loads they do in a week and do the multiplication. Tom Klemm: Is that what the max weight of the harvester is must be. yeah. okay. yeah. I'm just curious what the what the unit was. They calculated that number from. okay. so. Steve Garone: but you reminded me of a small point as you were speaking. I got a I got an email from Norm about a week ago. He was trying to download our may report on our measurements. and he says. evidently. was never posted. I I know I sent it to you. and I think I sent it to Jailyn too.
Tom Klemm: Yeah. this is a
Steve Garone: subject matter a little bit here. Tom Klemm: Well. let's so for this one. Why don't you just send it directly to Norm. So he was looking for on our web page. Steve Garone: So. you know. it was because every time I've done this in the past. haven't been a lot of them. but I send it to I send it to the committee. and I send it to Jailyn. And I thought she usually posts it. but Tom Klemm: it's was just as well. because what. what Jailyn does is she'll create a new like a not a link. saving a thumb thumbnail. It's basically. every time we upload a new document. there's a new line that appears on our web page. which is ridiculous. What I want there to be is one tab for document library. and then you go there and you can find what you're looking for. So to send that one directly to Norm. that's that's a larger issue about how we make documentation publicly available. not only amongst this committee. but but to the public. So to send Norm that one for now. I don't think anybody else beyond the DPA cares. So if Norm has it. he can distribute it to everybody. Steve Garone: Funny thing is. Norm. Norm should have it because I'm not sure I'm going to have to do it this time. but I always have him review it. because he's done it more times than I have. But anyway. but we've had this conversation before in this committee. right about how documentation is posted in the town. And. yeah. we'll Tom Klemm: talk about that. about that that further down the agenda. because that was gonna be a topic for last time. So I'll touch on that. They get there . last thing on Dudley pond. And have you had any discussions with Allison about how we're going to capture this information? So as you say. when Alison and Tree can't or don't want to do this. we have a source document to hand off to the next person. Steve Garone: I had. I think I may have told you this. I had a long sit down with Allison about a month and a half ago to talk about a number of things around this. And one of the things I said to her is. you know. we really need to develop a best practices document. And I said I'd be happy to write it. but I have to do it in collaboration with you guys. because you guys are the ones that are out there using the equipment. etc. And we do have some material. I mean. I don't know if you knew this. but when. when the harvester first arrived and the DPW guys are out here showing people how to use it. I did. I did videos. I took videos of what they were teaching and what they were showing people. And I did that because Norm asked me to and. and then I was waiting for Norm to go. Well. you know. can you put it together in a in a whole video? And. you know. whatever. nobody ever asked me. This is before I was on the committee. So the idea to do that has been around for a while. but we haven't done it yet. So it's a very good point. because. you know. and frankly. you know. I'm I'm thinking it's important. but you know. I've also had conversations with Carol Martin who said. Well. that's the DPW's job. Don't worry. If we need to hire new people. They will do it. and they will train them. I don't know. Tom Klemm: They'll they'll train them. but there's local knowledge that they are not going to be able to impart to these people. right? Steve Garone: So. yeah. I so I did have that conversation with her. She seemed willing to do it. but. you know. then the season started. and I didn't really want to bother her. because she's just straight out. So this fall. we revisit it. Okay. all right. Tom Klemm: one last thing on Dudley pond. yeah. and kudos to our own Carole Plumb for pointing this out some time ago. there is what appeared on the town website. A few months back. was a notice that the town is contracting with an engineering firm to assess wastewater impact on Dudley pond. and turns out. this is a larger issue to determine. for example. whether there needs to be a local wastewater treatment station around Dudley pond. And there were several different proposals around that area. So it wasn't highly publicized. but Cheryl Carole has her eyes on what the town's doing. So. Part of this initiative was to have a a wastewater. a Dudley pond wastewater study group of interested residents to vet these proposals. And that committee has been formed. I am on it. Norm is on it. There's someone else in the in the Dudley pond community. who's on there. and there's a fourth person whose name I didn't recognize. Steve. are you or no. you're not on it. Steve. it's. it's Norm. And there's a fourth person Steve Garone: I literally found out about that committee. like. two days ago. from Bob Smith. I didn't even know it existed. Tom Klemm: Yeah. it was all low key. And again. if it wasn't for Carole Plumb. I wouldn't know. I mean. I'm not as good as she is sleuthing stuff out. So kudos to Carole and so again. But this whole thing is just strange. You know. this idea that the town is going to determine what may or may not need to be done around the Dudley plot area in terms of wastewater treatment. very odd how it sort of popped up out of the blue. I guess I think the originating. the source behind it was Abigail Charest. the town engineer. but maybe it predates her. I don't know. So anyways. this committee is meeting for the first time later in September. and I will be updating the committee as it goes forward. but that's I'll resend the link. You know. you can try and glean some information there. But. you know. the long term goal is. how do we obviate the the how do we mitigate from wastewater getting at the Dudley pond? And Steve. you'll recall years ago when they wanted to put a little wastewater unit down by what's now Dudley woods. for a development. You know. I think that idea is going to come back as one of the options this committee will face. So I'll resend the link to the group right now. This is just to raise awareness that the committee. the group. has been formed. Our first meeting is in September. Good news is it's mostly Dudley upon people who are on there. so I think they'll be certainly getting a critical assessment from. from us. So stay tuned. Steve Garone: So are you. are you telling me that I may not have to have a septic system anymore? Tom Klemm: Well. that's. I mean. I think. yeah. I mean. one of the. one of the. what the. what the town is looking for. is. yeah. can can we? I don't know if tying into Natick was an option. certainly a local wastewater treatment was. I think there was something about shunting it somewhere towards the high school. I think is there some wastewater? I don't know. There was a third option. but yeah. the upshot would be to not really have reliance on the cesspools that are still around there and other kinds of on site septic treatment. Can it be treated either on site in a more comprehensive way. or just sent elsewhere? It's quite vague on that. on the website. on the town the website. I'll resend the link so people can can look at that. Steve Garone: Sounds expensive. Tom Klemm: We're just rolling in money. Okay. that is all on Dudley pond and Tom Largey. I saw you yawn. We'll try and wrap it. I think it'll go pretty quick. Steve Garone: He's had a long day. Tom Klemm: Yes. Okay. okay. The next one is pretty quick. So again. our Eagle Eye Carole. she had noticed that Mass DCR is updating the their 20 year old guide to Massachusetts Lakes and Ponds and treatment options for the different kinds of invasives one might find. I looked. I was turn over the floor to Carole on that she's not here. but I was looking at it earlier this week. and there's nothing new as of yet. Basically. what the state has done is they've taken comments. There was an open period to comment on that older version. that window is closed. and the state is now taking those comments and will revise. So currently. there's nothing new in this documentation. It's the same thing from 2004. so there's no news to report as of yet. There was just an open comment period. People commented. the state's going to revise it. So I was in the impression at first that there was a new version that had been uploaded. But no. it's just the comment window is closed. The state is going to revise So more to come on that. And I'll let Carole speak more authoritatively on that. Okay. okay. something Steve. that you had brought up last time. and we can defer this one into a larger group. But you know. this the surface water it concerns the surface water quality committee's mission statement. And as founded. we are an advisory body. We are not supposed to be taking an active role. even though. in fact. we are. We just talked about water chemistry testing. Heard Pond weed management. Dudley pond. So. you know. Steve. to your point. we are already doing that stuff. and maybe it's the question of making our mission statement reflect that we're actually doing stuff and we are not simply advising the Select Board on what should be done. I will open the floor to you if you want to make any other comments around that. or if you had something more specific in mind that I am overlooking in my gloss Steve Garone: Well. all I can say is that you know the ideas came up in all first it. they started with me. Because. you know. I. when I. when I started working on this group. with this group. I started thinking about. you know. what is our role? What. what. what are we trying to accomplish? Some of that came from the fact that most of my focus has been on Dudley pond. And as you know. we have a Dudley Pond Association that tries at least to be somewhat active in weed management and things that go on around the pond. But frankly. I don't think did a very good job at that. They do a really good job at social things. but that's pretty much it. And they have money. Yes. they have some money. So people started talking to me about the fact that. well. you know. why don't. why don't you guys. you guys should really own this whole weed management thing. and you should really be controlling the budget. and you should really be. you know. figuring out what the long term plan is for all the water bodies within Wayland. And it doesn't seem like you're doing that. And I'm not sure that we can. given that we're an advisory board to these Selectmen. and we don't have a budget to do all those things. Tom Klemm: Are these comments from Dudley Folks. or just folks across town Steve Garone: Dudley Pond folks. pretty much. Tom Largey: Well. my comment is. I always felt we were doing quite a bit more than advising. We've been rolling out contracts for. Many. many years. And I think in the case of Dudley Pond. almost everything that was was done on it for many years was through Surface Water Quality. you know. various whatever there were treatments or pilots or or this or that. The difference is that Heard Pond doesn't have an association. I think we do it all there. Dudley pond has call it an Activist Association. That's that's a primary. It's quite a difference.
Steve Garone: Yeah. No. it is. It is active. as I mentioned earlier. How do I put this? It talks a lot about the kinds of issues that we're supposed to be dealing with here. and we do deal with here in terms of weed management and so on. but they have not really turned that into real action and real work. And so that kind of falls on people around Dudley pond that don't want to be affiliated with the DPA and don't want to be in Surface Water Quality. So they kind of. they're kind of renegades. if you will. Okay. so I. I get the sense that. you know. they want to really look to us. to do what they're doing. but they don't see us doing it. and they can't. They don't want to deal with the DPA. because the DPA doesn't do it at all. Tom Largey: So what are they doing? What are they doing that isn't? I mean. there's. there's a harvester on the pond. there's water testing. there's. there are periodic applications of herbicides. What are they doing otherwise? I have no idea. Never heard of Steve Garone: okay. so you bring up the harvester. right? So the harvester. I was involved in the the liaison with the DPA over the harvester. because they. to a very great extent. paid for it. okay? And there was a lot of resistance to doing that. And it took a lot of convincing to get them to. you know. give the town the funds. at least in part. to to purchase that machine. Tom Largey: So I thought the harvester of the $95.000 or whatever. was merely a line item. It was a line item in the in the town warrant several years ago. and the town paid for Steve Garone: It was. it was kind of a. there are some things it.
that there was some payments that the DPA was supposed to pay the town that they didn't pay to kind of. you know. be able to channel it toward the harvester and the conveyor. Complicated story. but basically. you know. the Dudley Pond Association. from the standpoint of dealing with weeds on the pond. has been a source of money. but that's pretty much it. Tom. do you agree with me? Do you is this what you've seen as well? Tom Klemm: So first off. I'll say I agree with Tom. I don't know. It sounds like this is conflating two different things. So one hand. they're saying we should be doing more. not only on Dudley pond. but the other ponds in town. And so I would ask as Tom did. what more do they want to say on Dudley pond? But then you segue into the whole harvester and the Dudley Pond Association was willing to pay for this. In the end. the town approved it at town meeting. But it is true that the DEP never gave back to the town money over time for this thing. so they complained that we welched on our deal. That's that's fine. I will say that I didn't try and get I've tried several. not recently. but when this. when the town first had the harvester. it was overseeing its use. I had written to several folks at the DPW to ask. Can you give me. you know. a list of what you've spent on this thing? What are the amortized costs? Because what we've done historically as the DPA in the DPA a was they would find out from the town what was spent on that seasons of management of Dudley pond. and there was a memorandum of understanding between the DPA and the town that the DPA a would contribute back or make a gift of some 20 or 25% of whatever the town spent. And that hasn't happened in at least five years. because I've not had a. Uh. or since the harvester was purchased. because I haven't gotten from the DPA what those expenses were without that number. I can't. yeah. work with Tree or Jamie on what 25% is. So I'm not quite so it's true that we haven't done that. I'm not sure what the complaint is. Are these people insisting that we pay that money. which is fine. We haven't done it. As far as actual work. as Tom said. We're doing all kinds of things on the pond. and I don't know what specifically they are thinking is missing. Steve Garone: I think. I think what. what. what I've heard. is not so much about. you're not you're not testing. you're not doing this. It's more about. you know. the long term. what's the long term plan? Do we do we need another harvester? Tom Klemm: I see Steve Garone: . how are we going to fund it? How are we going to get new people to run the harvester? What. you know. what is a long term plan for dealing with weeds on the pond. we don't really have that. we're kind of watching and going. so that's what I hear back. Tom Klemm: Okay. well. I would. you know. to those. I would say. you know. we are doing. we're we're managing milfoil with Procellacor as needed. And then for the harvester. You know. we were just talking about this tree. and Allison can't do it forever. We've got some younger people. And if you know. it's. I don't think it's too difficult to learn to use the harvester. Maybe that from within the DPA there might be somebody willing to step up into those roles. Would be because of that Allison and Tree. the thing is just going to be dormant. and not you. So. you know. I go to the DPA meetings I can present again. and maybe. and probably the people who are complaining Steve Garone: No. that's. that was my point. They don't. because they don't have anything to do with it. Tom Klemm: Yeah? So then I would. you know. I can't take those kinds of comments seriously if they're not even willing to go to a meeting and articulate what they think should be done if it's a one on one with you as they see you. So it's hard to take that seriously or even really act on it. Yeah. Steve Garone: no. I get that. I get that. So. you know. I think it's just important to recognize. I think that a lot of the drive behind a lot of things that have gone on. including the harvester. including the conveyor. and. you know. a lot of the other things that go on. are not. we're not. Are not initiated or worked on by the DPA. They're all people who no longer affiliate with the DPA. So it's kind of like. you know. I won't call it a free for all. but. you know. I think it's something that. frankly. I think we should own. Tom Klemm: Yeah. yeah. Well. I mean. I would say that we do. I We present. we give updates at the town meetings. If the people who are voicing these concerns aren't at the town meetings. they're not going to hear the updates. They're not going to be able to answer questions. So okay. noted. though. but I mean. definitely I will. We'll look into that money that we were promising to give back to the town. I'll try and follow up with the DPW. You know. maybe even aside from reaching out to DPW. the town did pay whatever that money was for a harvester. Maybe there's another way I can. yeah. have the DPA pay back some portion to the town and to sort of bypass the the DPW on that part. But I'll. I'll take that as an action item. Steve Garone: Don't. don't. don't mention my name when you do that. I won't. Tom Klemm: It'll be. it'll be an idea that came out of my own mind. recognizing that we haven't paid the town for this instrument. So I'll take care of that. Okay. let's see. I think that is it on Dudley pond. Let's see mechanical harvesting. Okay. yeah. so I guess Steve. so what you were saying. you know. this committee can still talk about whether we want to have our mission statement accurately reflect that we actually take action and are not advisory. Let me what I will do as an action. and maybe I'll sound out Carol Martin first just get her idea on changing the mission statement. just to reflect that we are actually more active than the mission statement implies. because at this point. we are taking a lot of initiative on this stuff. and the town hasn't pushed back. and I think they would probably welcome it. because this stuff is not going to be done otherwise. right? The Select Board is not going to be seeing this. So I'll take as an action to review and refresh if needed. on the mission statement. But I'll get Carol Martin's input to see how she might advise us to go ahead with this. Yeah. good idea. Or maybe she'll say. don't just keep. keep on trucking and leave things as they are. But I'll. I'll talk to Steve Garone: I have a I have a feeling I can predict what she'll say. but I won't say it Tom Klemm: Just okay. yeah. don't say it. See what happens. Yes. okay. And I think the next thing I have is September and. oh. one quick thing. I got the notice from the Town. September 30 is when the each committee's annual report is due. I've got all the information at my fingertips to do that. so just Steve Garone: which you have to do. or we disappear. I learned notifying this committee that I'm going to put that together. we should have a meeting before the end of September. I can submit a draft for folks to look at and comment on. So that is that tonight because I was really with a friend of mine in also my action to put together the annual report.
town who. when he first moved into town. was on a committee about focused on bike paths. which were really the sidewalks in town. okay? And he said. they. they never met. and they. they never wrote a report. And there's some rule that says. you know. if a year or so goes by. we don't write a report. You You're dissolved. So you gotta write that. Tom Klemm: Yeah. no. I've been doing it the past couple of years. Tom Largey: Well. an example of. you know. with the Wayland Mill Pond. We've discussed that over the years. I had some hydro raking done about 10 years ago on the shoreline of the mill pond. and it was supposedly dredged as some time in the 1970s but nobody knew anything. And so I went through the town reports which are are bound. now they're online. And so I found the town meeting article that authorized it. and how much money was spent. which is not a whole lot of money in today's terms. And I don't think people worried about permits. and they just did it. They just did it. Tom Klemm: Well. I think I suspect permits would be the least of the issue today. I'm sure it's going to cost ridiculous amounts of money. And then what do you put on that muck? Yeah. but maybe once every 50 years is a good time to do it. so I don't know. I'm not going to touch that one right now at the moment. Yeah. well. I haven't thought about that. You know. clearly. because Tom. you've mentioned. when I first enjoyed this committee. you were talking about Mill Pond. and you mentioned the hydro raking way back in the day. or the the dredging back in the day. and the hydro ranking more recently. Tom Largey: Yeah. well. if we. if they don't get into the reports. it's just lost knowledge. I don't think people go through the reports very assiduously either. but it's there. It's a record. Tom Klemm: So. yeah. that's a good in fact. I've probably not even included Mill Pond in the last few years. So let me do that. if nothing else to say. just to point out long term concerns around sediment build up and referring back to the 74 Tom Largey: Yeah. okay. yeah. yeah.
Tom Klemm: All right. refer to dredging and Hydro. Okay. The next item now is the September meeting. And Steve. I will defer to you. because I know your schedule gets quite complicated in September. So. and this is already late August. so I will be traveling mid September. So the week of the 22nd would be ideal. especially with this report due on the 30th. it'd be good to meet the week before. if possible. So Steve. what is your Week of the 22nd of September look like? Steve Garone: Well. so that I have two commitments that I've had ever since I joined the committee. Wednesday nights are a band practice that I really should not miss. That's why Wednesday nights were never good for me. Occasionally. it can work depending on which week it is. if. like. if it's. you know. a school vacation week. we don't. we don't rehearse. or whatever. And the second Tuesday of every month is. is another meeting that I have. but that's only one week a month. And I know Thursdays are out right. because we don't have somebody Tom Klemm: for whatever reason. the Town can only do a zoom up until 4pm Yeah. So that doesn't work. What about September? So that you mentioned Wednesdays? What about and your second Tuesday is out. What about Tuesday the 23rd?
Steve Garone: all other than but wait a minute. let me. Let me just check the calendar and make sure that September. Oh. yeah. So the so the second Tuesday is the ninth. so the 16th is good and the 23rd is good. Only third Tom Largey: Twenty third is fine with me. Tom Klemm: let's do the 23rd then. because that'll give me time to put this report together and then send it to people so they can comment on the 23rd and then I can make any changes before submitting it. Okay? I. September 3. Tuesday. I am Steve Garone: going to have visitors that week. but I can. I'm sure I can break away. Tom Klemm: Okay. okay. that is. that is good. We'll keep that. And then. as I mentioned. Jack Carr has. has. has had chronic issues for a while. being able to attend any meetings any night of the week. And I have a few people in mind. but they are not unfortunately. but they are they're Dudley pond people. I'm very sensitive to this committee membership being a bunch of folks who live on Dudley Pond because Steve Garone: Hold on. Can I back you up a minute? Yes. I just remembered something. I am I'm not. I'm not available on the 23rd typically. I am. but I have something going on that night. I'm sorry.
Tom Klemm: Alright. let's see this 16th is only a couple weeks away. Alright. let's just do it on what is the 30th is? That is the following Tuesday. Let's just. how about the 30th? Then September 30? Tom Largey: Fine with me
Steve Garone: that? See. I thought it was due on the 30th. Tom Klemm: Well. I'll just have to circulate it. and people can make comments. and let's do it that way. Okay? Because I got earlier. I That's just too soon after this meeting. I'm not going to have it done anyways. So let's just do the 30th and I'll circulate before then folks can send their comments to me individually. but you know.
so Steve. confirming that the 30th Tuesday Steve Garone: is okay. yeah. that should that should be fine. Okay. we'll do that then. And Tom Klemm: Tom Largey. you said the 30th is final service is fine with me. Okay. very good. Okay. so getting back to what I was saying. so I'd like to Jack is willing to vacate his seat if we have. if we can get a new another person. And so I don't know if. and I. fortunately. my network is all here. and this part of town. the Dudley Pond part of town. Steve. I don't know if you know anybody else where Tom Largey. but if you can think of somebody who might be able to who'll be willing to serve on this committee. and maybe isn't in the southern part of town. you know. sound them out. and let's. let's see if They're interested. because Jack is willing to step aside. He doesn't be able to make it. And. you know. last month. we had a quorum issue. And so I'd like to with five people. We should never have a quorum issue. So Jack is willing to vacate the seat. So if anybody. if either of you can think of somebody who might be willing to serve. send them my way. Tom Largey: Yeah. Well. you know. of course. Jack was looking after Lake Cochituate before him. Linwood Bradford was and that the fact that it's DCR owns it. basically makes it awfully hard to even keep track of what's going on there. let alone influence anything it's it's a tough. tough job. you know. for committee members. that certainly seems to work where somebody has some ownership. which. you know. as as an example. In the past. we had Mike Lowery and then Tony Moore's engineer interested in the testing. And so otherwise. people just come and they kind of listen it. it. it's. it's hard to get. I think. to hold on to people. unless there's something. somehow that they have ownership of. Carole. she's pretty avid. She's seems to have ownership of. oh. I don't know. Tom Klemm: Town beach
Tom Largey: like that. which keeps her going. Tom Klemm: It's Tom. Let me was Tony. Would Tony? More? You think be interested? I can reach out to him. I have his email. would he Tom Largey: No? You know he's no. When he resigned. he resigned. apparently. his wife as well. She was in a car accident many years ago. and there's some issue there. And no. I think he's. I think he's flat out of out of it. He put many years into it. Yeah. he did. Another fellow was Bob Goldsmith. And right. I remember him. and you know. Bob was interested in things. and to the point where once I took him on my little boat across Dudley pond and deposited him on. I told him it wasn't a good idea deposited him on a far shoreline. These shorelines are difficult. He was ready to get back in the boat in a minute. but it was nothing like Dudley pond. You know. you step onto something round that moves and you realize it might be a snapping turtle. Happened to me once. well anyway. but I. while you were mentioning. I went over a mental list of some acquaintances I have. And by the way. Steve. do you know. do you know Larry? I mean Larry Kiernan. no. oh. you mentioned the bike path. and Larry was super on the on the on the bike path. He was a prime. prime pusher. I And. oh. that you talking about the rail trail. Yeah. the rail. the rail. Oh. I love the rail trail. Yeah. but you don't know Larry K i. e r n. a n. but I'm not certain he's interested in water. but he was super on the rail trail committee. Somebody I know of you know otherwise we have down the street is Shannon Fisher. who's a new ConCom member. and so she was and she's all for trees. I volunteered to I sent her a note saying I'd be glad to take her on a tour of the water bodies in Wayland. But we haven't found the time. She hasn't found the time yet. So just hard to say Tom Klemm: Tom. that guy who lives near Heard pond. is he in Wayland or Tom Largey: he lives in Sudbury? He lives in Sudbury. right? Yeah. yeah. yeah. He lives in Sudbury. There is a fellow. Brian Moore. who lives on the Wayland right past her. Uh. heard pond. He's a physician. and he did join the historic commission because he wanted to do something. But I haven't seen him for quite a while. In fact. I'm wondering if he didn't move or something like that. I. you know. from time to time. I engage people who are might be fishing or walking around the pond. This fellow Brian. he and his family did frequently. Turns out most of the fishermen are from Framingham. Natick. Marlboro. Sudbury. not too many from Wayland. Tom Klemm: Okay. all right. Well. as you. as you guys. were talking to spark some creative thinking in my mind. So I've got some names down here that I'll I can reach out to. Tom Largey: But yeah. you know. there is a new Wayland Post newspaper. Do all of you see it? I write? Yes. yeah. Well. that's. you know. as an example. Today. I was. I did have a hard day. I. besides the pond in the morning. I played two chess games this afternoon. one against my nemesis. I beat him this time. but we are starting a Wayland chess gathering on Thursdays. So I'm going to write some kind of something about it. but I'm not going to do it until September or October. It's summertime right now. but the thought is. if you run something in the Wayland post. that somebody might see it and and you know. around us. we've had new people move in. and a fellow three. three doors down is on the assessors committee. This Shannon Fisher. is on ConCom. Others with young families. but they're not particularly water oriented. but some of them seem to be a pretty public spirited as gotta be a way to reach some of those and maybe the Wayland Post some. some something in there. Tom Klemm: Tom. let me know about that Wayland chess group. My brothers are getting me involved in chess. and I'm terrible at it. so maybe I can go and stink up the join at the Wayland chess club. but I. I'm trying to get better at this. I'm playing online and getting beat by people. I might as well get beat face to face. Oh. let me know. Well. Tom Largey: I'm available loads of evenings. so maybe we could get together. Tom Klemm: Okay. well. you might. you might tire of me as a competitor if you're really good at it. because you might just you. Yeah. but okay. I'll follow up with you on that. Okay. alrighty. okay. Steve Garone: So. speaking of the bike path. I wrote. I wrote an article or a column. I guess. in the Wayland post about rail trail etiquette. Tom Largey: I think I saw that Steve Garone: I do a lot of bike riding on the rail trail. some running. And. you know. people need to treat that the rail trail like. you know. car road with two directions. and they don't often do it. And I've seen people get hurt because people are in the wrong place. Tom Largey: Yeah. yeah. I think I saw that article. yeah. Steve Garone: By the way. I want to make sure we're done with our business. Tom. we are. I was going to adjourn once we're done. I was going to ask if. if you guys know new Steve Green. no. I don't. Yeah. He lives. He lives over on Pine Needle down Cochituate. lived. We got a surprise a couple of days ago. He was driving up in Maine. long story as to the circumstances. and some kid going 123 miles an hour. ran into him and killed him. Tom Largey: Oh. my lord. Tom Klemm: was he driving or on a bike? Steve Garone: He was driving at a in a pickup truck. and his wife was up in Maine for a 50th high school reunion. and he didn't want to go because he didn't know anybody. And I think he was either running errands or driving back to Wayland. and we. a lot of us. went to his funeral today. Wow. wow. You know you gotta live for the moment. because things can change just like that. Tom Largey: Yeah. Any of you ever know David Lane? No. well. he lived in Cochituate. He was. he is. he was a well known artist. He had sculptures on his front lawn. And this is quite a few years ago. but he was well known in town. and so he was teaching at. I guess. Wellesley College several years ago. and a deer jumped in front of his car and shattered the windshield and killed him. So you never know. You never know. Tom Klemm: So there was a house near. did he live on School Street? Because there was a house on School Street had these huge sculpture Tom Largey: that was. that was a. that was a. yeah. yeah. That was a. I used to joke with my wife about getting one of those sculptures. but just a joke. Tom Klemm: yeah. no. we didn't know we Yeah. Okay. alright. Well. that was that concluded our business. So thank you for aligning on that date for our next meeting. If there's nothing else. I would make a motion that we adjourn at 8:34pm Tom Largey: I second that Tom Klemm: let's go around the room. Steve Garone: Steve Garone. aye Tom Largey: Tom Largey. aye Tom Klemm: Tom Klem aye Awesome. Alright. everyone. Have a great Labor Day weekend. We'll talk to you guys at the at the end of September. Steve Garone: Alrighty. take care. Tom Largey: bye. bye.
Wastewater Management
8-Sep-25 - Wastewater Management
Michael Gitten: Uh. at 1113 I'm
calling the September 8 meeting
of the Wayland Wastewater
Management District commission
to order it was posted online
where there was a link to this
Zoom meeting. and I'm like
getting participating remotely.
Darren Bock: Darren Boch.
participating remotely.
Michael Gitten: Okay. and I'm
not. no one's on for public
comment.
Jailyn Bratica: Yes. there's no
one on for public comment. Okay.
Michael Gitten: so then we'll go
to the monthly operating report.
Jared. what?
Jared Cotton: Yes. we had a very
busy summer.
Michael Gitten: Yeah. the three
month operating report.
Jared Cotton: yeah. so it was
busier than our normal summers.
Anyway. so last we met MBR tank
one had been cleaned and
recoated. Since then we
installed fine screen number
two. which was the first one we
installed. We cleaned the grid
chamber and recoated it. We
cleaned out the EQ tank or the
EQ basin. and cleaned out all
the tanks on train one side. We
installed new diffusers and in
MBR tank one. and got that back
online so that one's been
running very nicely since it's
been fully cleaned after that.
and the screen number two is
installed. We removed the old
screen so that we could install
new screen number one. And I
mean number one and number two.
just from like SCADA point of
view. You know. it doesn't
really matter other than that.
So the both screens are running in hand. Currently we have them set how we want. and we are currently just waiting for a communication control box that will allow the screens to communicate with SCADA so you can turn one online. or turn one on lead and one on lag. we can get alarm calls from it. which we don't really. we don't need. Like. the process will always run. It's just if. in the future. if. for whatever reason. one of the screens goes down. it will go through the overflow. to the other screen. and everything will work great. It will just also let me know. It will call out me. or Whitewater saying that there was an issue with screen one and screen two is online. And then we can decide if we're going to do anything in that moment. or save it for the next day. or whatever it is. So the screens are almost 100% done. They are like 99% done. right. having the screens online in hand. Though. these new screens use a wash water system. and they have solenoid valves. So when we do have the SCADA system connected to it. it will choose when the water comes on and off. Since we don't have SCADA connected to it right now. we have the water running continuously. We did find that that was causing us to discharge more water than we were taking in. so we scaled the flow back on those wash waters a little bit. but we still do need them for the screenings going through. So we do have a slightly elevated water bill this this past month. but that will be going down and being more accurate. as we get the communications back online or just hooked up.
we've also been experiencing some weird power issues. It doesn't seem like we're getting. we're losing power to the whole building. like it's a utility issue. We had Wilson Controls in. Dagle Electric and LCS were in and we found that we had some power issues between the MCC cabinets and the PLC cabinet. And these appear to be old wiring issues. They like they very well could be from or when the plant was built. I. It most likely wasn't from our recent PLC upgrade. because they didn't go into the other electrical cabinets. So that is just going to. it's going to be an investigation coming up for us to find out what is causing these issues.
Michael Gitten: How does it manifest itself when you say an issue. does it just. does it send alarms or stuff stop working? Jared Cotton: Um. kind of neither. It's more like. I sorry. yeah. sometimes it is alarms. like it has kind of reset the PLC. and so LCS did have to. like remote in and put the program back on the PLC. But also sometimes it just makes the not even like the SCADA computer. um. like the computer itself is working fine. but it does make the SCADA screen look a little funky. like I can see the numbers are changing. I can see our levels. but some of the words might be blacked out. So it's not affecting our process. It's not affecting my ability to make changes to the process. But it's not right. and it's definitely. certainly more of a nuisance. so we definitely need to get that figured out. But yeah. it's not like a danger to the plant or processor. Unknown: Does anyone think it's putting a strain on the equipment if it's not getting proper power? Is it straining the equipment? Does anyone talk about that? Jared Cotton: N o.You Yeah. I don't think that's been mentioned.
Yeah. it's more like. it's almost like cycling might not be the best word. Unfortunately. these electricians and computer people speaking a language I don't fully understand. so it's hard to translate. Michael Gitten: Darren. is that your world? Unknown: It is my world. But I'm letting Jared finish here and trying to understand what's happening. But. I mean. you at in the end of the day. you need to get somebody out to investigate. right? Jared Cotton: Yes. yeah. definitely. Unknown: So you're probably. you know. I'm not going to guess Mike. I would look. I would look for grounding issues. What I would look for first. but you said the motor control center and all that. But. yeah. this is my world. But until somebody goes out and troubleshoots Mike. and understanding when it's happening. I I could. I could ask a billion questions right now. Jared Cotton: yeah. and yeah. and there are just so many wires. you know. potential sources that to find the issue. Yeah. we're just trying to get a plan. the plan our approach to this. Unknown: And it could be that some wires are not shielded. right. so they're picking up signal and all that. which is causing the PLC. I mean. there's a lot of different things. Darren Bock: Yeah.
Unknown: All right. so you got that going on. but like you said. plant operational? Yep. you are getting these PLC power surge that is causing the PLC to shut down to the point where you actually have to reinstall the firmware. which is crazy. Jared Cotton: Yes. that's happened twice now. Darren Bock: Wow. Jared Cotton: Yeah. Yeah. So it was definitely not ideal. We thought it was originally a. you know. battery backup issue. We thought that was not holding a charge. and so it's kind of dropping power to the PLC. and when we remove that. it seems to have solved the issue. But it did pop back up. So now. now we know to look elsewhere.
Unknown: Who troubleshoots this? Is this just a hired electrician. or is it the people who installed the SCADA Jared Cotton: so we had. we actually had Wilson Controls down here. They were replacing VFDs for us. and they were here with Daigle electric. our on call electricians. So they were the ones that that noticed this was the issue. So I mean. definitely Daigle will be involved. but I'm not sure if i. If they will also recommend having Wilson Controls too. Unknown: Yeah. All right. well. knock on wood that this is a simple thing at the end of the day Michael Gitten: only because it's been in the news. It's it's any bugs in the in the computers. or anything that you're aware of. Tom of you. Tom Holder: yeah. So we're not aware of any cyber. you know. attack that we get. We get warnings. IT is pretty tuned in with that type of stuff. So it just. I think it's a matter of. you know. we've been making a lot of changes at the plant. We've had a lot of different folks in the plant. and it's just taking a little bit of time to work out all of these little idiosyncrasies that were coming about. And I know each each month we as go we go by where we're looking forward to having this thing. you know. operating kind of back to normal. But I have to say. This plant has gotten a lot of attention. a lot of needed repairs. And. you know. I think in the next month or so. once we get all of this work that Jared is describing. I think we'll be in a much better place. and everything will be current. Michael Gitten: So is the last thing on the major capital improvements. the screens. the painting. is it this SCADA hook up? Is that all that remains to be done? Jared Cotton: Yeah. of this project? Yeah. that's. that's once that's hooked up. the whole screens and tank coding. all that will be officially closed. I mean. the the tank coatings have been finished like that. Is a separate project. then. yeah. that is completely done. Unknown: nice. Well. I guess this is why we are slowly. you know. we put that that informed cap on the design flow. Mm. hmm. Okay. what any updates on the Oxbow FOG matter? Jared Cotton: Um. I. I don't believe so. I believe we gave them a notice. and I think that that's. as far as I'm aware. Tom Holder: yeah. we actually. you know. some administrative things. I mean. obviously we are continuing to hire somebody to to vacuum out the fat soils and grease on a periodic basis. as we as we deem it necessary. We charge them for it. They are current on their payments. We have engaged town council on some likely next steps this weekend. We it's not proper to sustain this. you know. vacuuming it out. cleaning it out on a monthly basis. We just can't sustain that. And that's not the way we should continue. Michael Gitten: So that was so. so it's kind of got into a bad. a known. but bad pattern of about every month it needs. it needs maintenance. That is not normal for this type of operation. Tom Holder: Yeah. that's. that's correct. We don't. we didn't experience having these fat soils and grease it. It wreaks havoc on the equipment. And. you know. cleaning it is a short term solution. but it's not a long term solution. And they've got some engineers that they've. you know. contracted with. some of them that have been on board since Wood Partners owned it and the prior owner. and so they still are engaged with us. and have a difference in opinions. which is not all that unexpected. but we've kind of. we've kind of exhausted the engineering back and forth. and Now I think. you know. it's gotten to a point where that we need to have some attorneys weigh in. and you know. we have our regulations where we feel pretty strongly about what we can expect there. and we're not. we're not. they're not meeting those expectations. Michael Gitten: Thank you. Uh. anything else. what? Darren Bock: What's the. what has the flow been Jared? Jared Cotton: um. it's still pretty consistent with. with the summer we our flow is definitely dipped a little bit like we got down to like 25. 26 a few times. but still averaging around like 30.32. on our discharge this last month. having having slightly elevated discharge flows from the wash water of the screens. I. But yeah. still. still pretty typical. Alta is still giving us. you know. like between 11 and 12 or 11.13 you know. averaging 12. yeah. okay.
Michael Gitten: and none of the. none of the new restaurant in the bank haven't come online. have they formally done anything? Or I'm jumping ahead on agenda. Maybe we can. We can circle back to that. Okay. Darren. Ed. any other comments questions for operations.
Unknown: Um. my only comment. I mean. would be. I mean. out outside of this electrical issue. right? This PLC. everything else was the work we had planned. right? So you didn't have any other unknown. like. oh my god. what happened. right? Type of thing. yeah. it was all planned work. So that's good. Well. you said it was busy. It was planned. Tom Holder: Yeah. it was planned. you know. And I think scheduling it. you know. a lot of these. a lot of these phases of the improvements had to be sequenced. And. you know. so getting that done. getting the right people in the building. one after the other. You know. was took a took a little bit of effort. but the work itself was planned. and it was just a matter of scheduling and getting those right folks in the building. you know. in a proper sequence.
Michael Gitten: Okay. so then we can move on to Sarah in the financial report. Sarah Pawluczonek: Okay. pull that up right now.
Can everyone hear me and see the report Okay.? Tom Holder: clearly. yep. Sarah Pawluczonek: excellent. Okay. so this goes through August 31- 17% of the way complete. Everything is in the forecast for now. obviously it's always a little bit. You know. early on the forecast. the only notable overage and expenses predicted is with water. which is what Jared mentioned. So you can see that I'm predicting around 5.700. I looked at the reading. did the math. I know we have a very high water bill next time. we already had a decently high one. So. you know. we didn't plan for that. We didn't expect that. So that will be something that will either run that line over. or it will have to come out of something like contingency. depending on how we feel. It should be. you know. paid off. Unknown: Was it related to the project? Sarah Pawluczonek: It? I mean. I would say so. right. Jared. or. I don't know. we could probably do it that way. Jared Cotton: I think I'd say so. because the project isn't. this is happening. because the project isn't completed. because we don't have the communication box yet. So once that is in. the project is done. and we shouldn't have this issue anymore. Unknown: I just. I don't know where we're at on the project budget. That's all. Sarah Pawluczonek: I will definitely shoot down to that real quick just to address that so we looks like we've spent and have encumbrances. leaving us with 43.000 well. 44.000 out of the 526. so there is some room for that. There are a few other things. I believe. I just got another invoice from Daigle which will have to go against that. So that was about. I want to say that was a few 1000. I do not remember the exact number. I'm not certain what else is yet to come. Jared. and you'll know more than me what's left. I know we're done with the tank painting and the Alsen portion of that is paid off. That's a separate project. but still that's done. other than electrical work and whatever mechanical assistance we're getting and the water. I'm not sure if there's anything else left to come through. Tom Holder: but you had made a remark at the last meeting. Darren. you know that anything associated with the project should be paid from the project. And we're at that same philosophy. you know. So what Sarah was just talking about moments ago. it does appear that we'll have. you know. a balance that we'll be able to pay from the project funds. Unknown: Yep. yes. I mean. I've been like. said. I know Matt had a different argument than you could argue it either way. but I don't know. I've always gone with account for it where it lies. right? Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah.I think he was saying. you know. legally. you know. accounting. by accounting principles. You could pay for it from. you know. two different sources. but yeah. we're of the philosophy that if it's associated with the project. we have. you know. we have project funds available. The right place to put it is within the project. Darren Bock: Yep. okay. Sarah Pawluczonek: yeah. when that comes through. we'll make sure we you. Make that. We'll put that against the project instead of the water line. So there's nothing surprising at all in operating expenses. It's all pretty much status quo. nothing else besides that one. You know. we do have obviously small. small equipment is something that we put together and chip away at all year. and the intention is always to spend that entire thing in order to keep things moving. I know that you have a list that takes that whole number down. Jared. I believe we don't have to worry too much about long term. term debt and principle that is already pre planned. and that exact amount is exactly what goes out. The revenue looks good. As far as bringing in wastewater user charges. that's already at. you know. 27% of target with one billing. which makes sense because it's a quarter. So that's really good. little tiny bit over. And we have another billing going out in the middle of this month. which will come due a month from then. So mid October. with the next time we see more revenue we have a little bit of this is. I think. lien revenue coming in coming in.
from the prior year. So. you know. there's always late. I'm not sure it was just $15 nothing to write home about. But those liens are in process. The demand notices have gone out. I'll be making phone calls soon. I have not. I do not have a list of how many. just yet. kind of waiting to see who's going to pay or give them a chance to at least come due on the demand notice. and then start. you know. we send out a second notice as well. But between the first and the second is when I will generally start making phone calls. which are only to commercial accounts because we don't have residential phone numbers. If I find one. and I'm lucky enough to have one. I will. but it's usually the commercial accounts that I'm able to communicate to. so at least give them till the due date. which is approaching. and then we have the service order. which is the third pump out from McVac for the Alta wet well. so that came in in this year. because it was billed towards the end of last year. So that is in here under the service orders. I don't know when the next time that will come around coming around again soon. and we're billing it out again soon. again.
It's pretty much a wash. because we build them for what we pay. So it's not really a generator. It's more of a nuisance for us to do the work. But. and then some interest is. you know. 20. almost 3.000 and that is really it. It's kind of early. It's not a lot to talk about. other than the fact that we've. you know. used a lot of our two projects budgets. and we have not started with the we haven't paid anything towards the low pressure sewer replacement design project yet. Darren Bock: Where did we end up for last year.
Sarah Pawluczonek: for the screens project? Unknown: No. just overall financial. What Sarah Pawluczonek: financial? Unknown: What did we end up taking from? Sarah Pawluczonek: Let me grab that. I'll put it up on the screen. Unknown: retained? Or do we even have to? Sarah Pawluczonek: No. it's fine. I can definitely pull that up quickly when I can get my fingers on it. Here should be the final.
Unknown: yeah. like said it's early when you're looking at like this. Sarah Pawluczonek: yeah. is. can you see the new document up? Did that move over? Okay. Tom Holder: black. blank screen. Sarah Pawluczonek: All right. I'm gonna stop. I'm just gonna stop sharing. reshare. because sometimes it just doesn't. yeah. yep. Tom Holder: Good move. Sarah Pawluczonek: Okay. So go to the bottom. yep. our total operating expenses. We did end up with. you know. money left over. I cleared out the forecast at this point because this is just to close out so. and then we had revenue of that with our and then our totals are down here. Darren Bock: operating income in 24 total income. 23 loss without operating so help me? Guess what? I'm what I'm wondering is I thought if we said that we would end in the positive. we would take less from retained earnings. right? So the idea would be that retained earnings wouldn't be drawn down as much as we predicted. Sarah Pawluczonek: right Darren Bock: So is that. I mean. I see you have it. I think you have it accounted for 105. there in the retained earnings. Sarah Pawluczonek: yes. just to balance the numbers over here with the initial But what ends up happening is. of course. if we don't use it. it just stays in retained earnings so. Unknown: got it so. so it should stay in retained earnings. right? Should? Oh. yeah. I would assume. all right. So our retained earnings number that we were going with Matt that. as you know. we kept talking about how its depleting right now will not. I mean. like said. this gives us a bump as we do the analysis for next year. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. I mean. that definitely is something that we I know we built some of that expectation into the rate study already with what we expected to carry forward. so it's not a surprise amount. But yes. okay. and I was just thinking about something which. with the Terrain project. which. of course. brings in privilege fee money. which we don't have on this budget. I'll go back to the other one. I'm gonna have a privilege fee on the other one. Yeah. I think I might have. I might have glossed right over that. and I meant to bring that up. Unknown: So we took no. no retained earnings last year that. that that's just an accounting exercise there. right ? there. Sarah Pawluczonek: that that's the way I read this. Well. there's two retained earnings polls. actually. because there's the 95 and then there's a 105 so it's. you know. 200 is the plan so. but we should have. we should have saved. we should have only taken about 75.000 in the end. Easy math. Unknown: right? Sarah Pawluczonek: right So. yeah. so that was good. so that Unknown: we had fore for the for the engineer. So we had forecasted around 200 grand. and we took 75 grand. Is that Sarah Pawluczonek: that should be how it sorted out. correct? And. yeah. of course. the where's my privilege fee line? It's in here somewhere. Oh. yeah. you can see right here. sorry. the 128 Yep. Unknown: So I don't think we see your do we see the new. No. that's all right. I remember. I remember seeing it. But you. I was. I was about. I forgot to make comment on to Sarah. Sarah Pawluczonek: Its a big one Unknown: So we're. we're predicting that based upon connections coming in the Sarah Pawluczonek: the $128.856. that's. that is the cash check that we have. Oh. wow. Okay. we have that. That's not. that's. there is no prediction. because you never know Right? Got it. Got it. I could add something if I get a little closer with some of the others. because there was another restaurant I'm jumping ahead out. I can wait until we get to that too home to Unknown: the same thing. Okay. now I get it. I get it. I didn't see that. You didn't have it in the forecast. Okay. that's good. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. it is. Unknown: Okay. So what's not getting even better for the year we still haven't really experienced the Council of Aging or the Library being fully operational for very long. Tom Holder: Yeah. library is yet to formally connect. Unknown: Really? What do they do? I thought they disconnected their septic. Tom Holder: Yeah. they're they've got some internal pumping issues to work through. from what I understand. so I don't think we're receiving them yet. Michael Gitten: Okay. and I thought it was a backup pump or something. Wow. Okay.Okay. okay. any. anyone. any questions on the financial end of things? So it does. it does. It's a good we could keep talking. and Sarah request for new services. So sure. what's the what's the background on the 128.000 Sarah Pawluczonek: so that is the privilege fee that was assessed for Terrain for their project. and that includes the usual calculation based on the privilege fee rate. plus. because they fall within that threshold for the study. it adds that number on there too. So it's a combination of both. I think they were around. I'm gonna ballpark at 2.100 they needed. in addition to what they had over there. And another project came forward. which I don't think is going to get off the ground. but it was a request for about 3.000 more. and it was another restaurant. I have not heard from them. but they also fell in with. obviously. the rate plus the study cost. because of that number. But I'm not banking on that one. because that's a it doesn't seem like it's getting any traction. We'll see. I guess I wouldn't predict it. I wouldn't put it in the forecast yet. There. the Dunkin Donuts. I hear rumbling. still. sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. But again. they haven't come back to us. You know. if you hear from them periodically. but I I'm hearing that they're starting to maybe actually do some construction. So we might actually. that might actually happen this year. We will see. Unknown: yeah. you could see they something was going on. and they're actually. that's one where they're talking about putting two putting two small restaurants in that building. right. right. or two casual. We don't have fast food two casual. uh. fast casual. Darren Bock: fast casual. Michael Gitten: with a drive through that you have to only use your app for. So. but that's not on so that's all there. If you explain the study. what is that? How much was that. and what does that involve? Sarah Pawluczonek: That's in our privilege fee document. and that I believe. is 75.000 or a I can't eloquently explain the type of there are different thresholds. but that's like a Tom Holder: So we have in our. you know. right now. we've full scale. Tom. you might be able to explain that better than me. That's out of my comfort zone. yeah. gotten our capital budget to do an evaluation and preliminary design for the system that lies within Route 20. yeah. So. as Sarah explains in our privilege fee document. it talks about it. if somebody is seeking. and the threshold might be over 500 gallons per day. that they actually then pay a component of necessary evaluations. So there's a calculation. and I think that's what that's what the intent is. to use the Terrains payment for that planned work. Michael Gitten: So that's going to focus on the conveyance to the plant. not the plant. Tom Holder: I believe that is the case.
Unknown: And that goes back to the budget that you showed us. Is it. would it go towards that online item that's already in the the budget . that's in our retained earnings. technically. the low pressure sewer replacement is that I'm looking. Sarah Pawluczonek: oh. that was that capital project is in on our budget. I can bring it back up too. if it helps Unknown: the design. Is this a similar would it? Would it alleviate the need or some of that. Would it be redundant to that? Or is that what it is Sarah Pawluczonek: that might already be borrowed? Oh. sorry. I'm sorry. Tom I assume that's already borrowed. but I don't know. maybe it's not borrowed yet. Tom Holder: So. yeah. it's what is planned for. You know. they call it a BAN. It's like a short term borrow before the finance department actually does their formal borrowing later in November. but it would be put towards that. So it would. it would lessen the actual. you know. town. or. you know. commission exposure on that project. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yep. And as that's really it for new entries to the system for now. just movement in town center. which is already pre purchased. and they did ask and inquire about purchasing more flow at one point. I have not heard back in a few months. I do hear there's a sale possibly underway or something changing over there. so I don't know if that will take time. Unknown: So. so that means we have about 8.000 gallons available for others at this point Sarah Pawluczonek: Sounds about right. Michael Gitten: Yeah. it does. yeah. So I just so others know I did go give an overview to the planning board about our basically. I read the privilege free document. They were sorely disappointed. They thought I was going to give them a primer on Title Five. I was like. no. So they and basically- the party line is. our goal is to comply with our discharge permits. get as much flow as we can. because we believe that will help keep rates down. And there's still some that feel we need to. I think they're misreading or we we need to dig up. when we had outside counsel. read the preamble of our our issuing charter or or authorization from the state. There's still confusion on that. what it allows us to do so but that's how I knew that 10.000 off top my head. because and that. that that. when you say the Terrain was that just. does that include the the old dentist office? Is it both parts? Is it because it's by parcel. right? Sarah Pawluczonek: Yes. Tom Holder: yeah. that that includes both which they're going to utilize that front building as well. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. the front building had enough flow. They didn't need to increase anything over there. It was just for the large building in the back. Unknown: right. Well. the next big connection. maybe we can get someone to do the statistical analysis to see on the design. flow. appropriateness. the Title five basis. but that's for next. next big project that comes through the town every five years. 10. Okay. anything else on?
Uh. so the the minutes and I just. I don't know whether this is I did related to that. I think it is equivalent of minutes. So I don't think it's necessarily new business and not looking for real discussion here. but I had volunteered to take a stab at the annual report that we need to submit by the end of this month. I believe correct. And I basically took last year's. took out some of the history about Oxbow. and sent it around last night. And definitely Sarah. if you to correct the numbers. the only number that is correct is is the rates for the next year or the current year. And I guess I was selective. I did notice for a while that Wind River was not sending around that nice one page sheet that tells total flow. And they are. I'm happy to see they're doing it again. I think when they went to the the automatic DMR. they but it for what it's worth. I find that very helpful. and I hope that I asked that they continue to do that. I don't know. I don't know what. what to call it. Jared. do you know what I'm talking about? The the one pager. where they summarize all our flow. Jared Cotton: Um. I know the page you're talking about. but. yeah. I'm not sure how to like phrase it exactly. but yeah. like it's. it's like the flow totals. Michael Gitten: DMR. yeah. it's not Yeah. but it's Yeah. For a while there I noticed. when I was looking at the past year. they weren't doing that. Sarah Pawluczonek: They would send it in chunks. I think. they would send a few at a time delayed. yeah. Unknown: yeah. and. and. yeah. that's I noticed that too. Sarah Pawluczonek: I might have some that you don't I don't know if they've left people off. You know what I mean? So if you're looking for any particular ones that you're missing. let me know I might have them. Unknown: I just got excited when I looked at one that said 35.000 gallons. And I said. Ooh. our flows up. But I think what I really was probably seeing was US generating flow due to the work we were doing versus overall. Maybe. maybe the flow over the last last state. fiscal town. fiscal year. maybe went up 2% I percent. Nothing. nothing. real significant. So. so if people have comments on that. I'm more than happy to take them and consolidate or otherwise. I'll just work with Sarah and Tom and Jared to wrap that up. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. I'll take a look at that today. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. but it will get done today. Unknown: Yeah. no. I'm fine with that. Mike. you know. I lot of it's repetitive the prior years. other than just updating the project and latest financials done. Michael Gitten: yeah.
Tom Holder: so probably a motion and vote to. you know. to use Mike's draft version. You know. with updates from. you know. Sarah and Jared. and vote on that. just so we have a formal vote so that you're able to submit it. you know. in the next week or two. prior to the next meeting. Would be. I think that'll be helpful. Unknown: Okay. I make a motion that the draft annual report that I circulated on the the seventh. be updated with the facts. the financial facts and other. you know. corrections that people might see related to the facts that we make those updates and submit. submit it as our 2025. annual report.
Second. Darren Bock: yeah. I'll second that motion.
Michael Gitten: Mike Gitten in favor.
Darren Bock: Darren Boch in favor. Tsung Chiang: Yeah. I'm in favor Michael Gitten: Okay. um. okay. Now to the minutes i Unknown: i read where my name was. everything looked good. Where my name was from. what I can remember. but I did. I did go in and sign it. so that's good. And that was in the motion that we nominate Darren. So I did make it there. Yeah. I have no comments. Ed. any comments on the minutes that were circulated last week by Sarah. I don't. I don't have any comment. but I I have to apologize because my computer I never. I only check email twice a day. in the early morning and late at night. just trying to do things simple. Another thing I have apologize I really doesn't know that much about small wastewater treatment plan. I usually design the big city stuff. so that's that's how it is.
Michael Gitten: Well. we appreciate it. Unknown: Yeah. no. you got a leg up on me? Michael Gitten: Yep. Okay. then the meeting minutes are. did I make a motion to approve the meeting minutes? I make a motion to approve the June 9. 2025. meeting minutes? Mike. yes. Darren Bock: Darren. yes.
Tsung Chiang: And okay. yes.
Unknown: Okay. So when's our next meeting? Sarah Pawluczonek: That is pretty late in October. I think it is the 20th at 11am if that still works. and we probably should put another one on there. another couple. if we can. just so we can give the town a heads up so it can. you know. block out that time for us.
Tom Holder: Yeah. So. what do we usually? We're usually. what the third Monday. I don't know the So. the 17th of November is that? Work for folks looking the
Michael Gitten: only request I make. is there any way we can make it at 1130 on that day? Is that a problem? Darren Bock: I'm good. Tom Holder: I think staff would be all right. I think Sarah Pawluczonek: fine with me. Michael Gitten: Know we're going to talk about by then is the successful completion of the projects electrical fix and how someone's gobbled up to the last 8000 gallons of privilege fee. Unknown: Tom is going to say that the plants back at 70 miles per hour. Michael Gitten: Yeah. and we got a quarter million dollars of revenue we didn't anticipate.
Unknown: Okay. any. anything else. anything. any topics we didn't cover. Tom Holder: just that I missed the I missed the Polar Park conversation. was I was there for the first time on Saturday. I hadn't been before. And of course. the day that I decided to go take you for a birthday gift. we wind up with a tornado warning. It was like unbelievable. The the weather. they shut the place down. They had to relocate whatever 14.000 people that that place holds into what they call the DCU cocktail. you know. lounge and yeah. so it was. you know. safe to say I didn't get to see the game. I guess I'll go another time. or whatever. But man. what a first experience at Polar Park. It's a gorgeous place. So if you're going there. if you're going there for a trade show tomorrow. I think you'll. I think you'll. you'll be impressed. Michael Gitten: Okay. yeah. I've been there for a game. but now just answer. It is in the DCU cocktail center. but then it spills out into the promenade. Tom Holder: yeah. concourse areas that are open covered. but open and yes. yes. yeah. it's nice. Unknown: Okay. sorry to interrupt this really quick. I'm sorry. Mike. actually. on October 20. can we move that from noon to one at all? That worked for everybody. Michael Gitten: I'm sorry that works. Actually. It actually works better for me if we could still do it. Unknown: Guys are okay with that. Sarah Pawluczonek: That's fine Unknown: sorry to interrupt your launch Tom Holder: one is that what you said? Unknown: Yeah. yeah. Darren Bock: I have a training that I've been signed up for. Unknown: Okay. okay. so 1pm start. or noon. or noon. Sarah Pawluczonek: oh. noon to 1pm sorry. Unknown: Or you can do a one start. either one. Michael Gitten: I'm open to whatever. Folks
Tom Holder: would do. You think you'd be jammed Darren at noon or Unknown: no. I'll be fine at noon. 11. doing a whole artificial intelligence course and all that. So. okay. Tom Holder: I'm done by Yeah. Okay. yeah. Sarah Pawluczonek: olOkay. I'll put noon and then thanks. The updates coming.
Great. Michael Gitten: Okay. well. we'll do this all again on the 20th at noon. All right. that we adjourn. Unknown: yep. second that motion. sorry. Mike. All right. I forgot about that procedure. Second that Sarah Pawluczonek: we're rusty. It's been a while. Darren Bock: Yeah. we're rusty. All right. bye. Good seeing everyone. Unknown: Bye. everybody. Thank you.
So the both screens are running in hand. Currently we have them set how we want. and we are currently just waiting for a communication control box that will allow the screens to communicate with SCADA so you can turn one online. or turn one on lead and one on lag. we can get alarm calls from it. which we don't really. we don't need. Like. the process will always run. It's just if. in the future. if. for whatever reason. one of the screens goes down. it will go through the overflow. to the other screen. and everything will work great. It will just also let me know. It will call out me. or Whitewater saying that there was an issue with screen one and screen two is online. And then we can decide if we're going to do anything in that moment. or save it for the next day. or whatever it is. So the screens are almost 100% done. They are like 99% done. right. having the screens online in hand. Though. these new screens use a wash water system. and they have solenoid valves. So when we do have the SCADA system connected to it. it will choose when the water comes on and off. Since we don't have SCADA connected to it right now. we have the water running continuously. We did find that that was causing us to discharge more water than we were taking in. so we scaled the flow back on those wash waters a little bit. but we still do need them for the screenings going through. So we do have a slightly elevated water bill this this past month. but that will be going down and being more accurate. as we get the communications back online or just hooked up.
we've also been experiencing some weird power issues. It doesn't seem like we're getting. we're losing power to the whole building. like it's a utility issue. We had Wilson Controls in. Dagle Electric and LCS were in and we found that we had some power issues between the MCC cabinets and the PLC cabinet. And these appear to be old wiring issues. They like they very well could be from or when the plant was built. I. It most likely wasn't from our recent PLC upgrade. because they didn't go into the other electrical cabinets. So that is just going to. it's going to be an investigation coming up for us to find out what is causing these issues.
Michael Gitten: How does it manifest itself when you say an issue. does it just. does it send alarms or stuff stop working? Jared Cotton: Um. kind of neither. It's more like. I sorry. yeah. sometimes it is alarms. like it has kind of reset the PLC. and so LCS did have to. like remote in and put the program back on the PLC. But also sometimes it just makes the not even like the SCADA computer. um. like the computer itself is working fine. but it does make the SCADA screen look a little funky. like I can see the numbers are changing. I can see our levels. but some of the words might be blacked out. So it's not affecting our process. It's not affecting my ability to make changes to the process. But it's not right. and it's definitely. certainly more of a nuisance. so we definitely need to get that figured out. But yeah. it's not like a danger to the plant or processor. Unknown: Does anyone think it's putting a strain on the equipment if it's not getting proper power? Is it straining the equipment? Does anyone talk about that? Jared Cotton: N o.You Yeah. I don't think that's been mentioned.
Yeah. it's more like. it's almost like cycling might not be the best word. Unfortunately. these electricians and computer people speaking a language I don't fully understand. so it's hard to translate. Michael Gitten: Darren. is that your world? Unknown: It is my world. But I'm letting Jared finish here and trying to understand what's happening. But. I mean. you at in the end of the day. you need to get somebody out to investigate. right? Jared Cotton: Yes. yeah. definitely. Unknown: So you're probably. you know. I'm not going to guess Mike. I would look. I would look for grounding issues. What I would look for first. but you said the motor control center and all that. But. yeah. this is my world. But until somebody goes out and troubleshoots Mike. and understanding when it's happening. I I could. I could ask a billion questions right now. Jared Cotton: yeah. and yeah. and there are just so many wires. you know. potential sources that to find the issue. Yeah. we're just trying to get a plan. the plan our approach to this. Unknown: And it could be that some wires are not shielded. right. so they're picking up signal and all that. which is causing the PLC. I mean. there's a lot of different things. Darren Bock: Yeah.
Unknown: All right. so you got that going on. but like you said. plant operational? Yep. you are getting these PLC power surge that is causing the PLC to shut down to the point where you actually have to reinstall the firmware. which is crazy. Jared Cotton: Yes. that's happened twice now. Darren Bock: Wow. Jared Cotton: Yeah. Yeah. So it was definitely not ideal. We thought it was originally a. you know. battery backup issue. We thought that was not holding a charge. and so it's kind of dropping power to the PLC. and when we remove that. it seems to have solved the issue. But it did pop back up. So now. now we know to look elsewhere.
Unknown: Who troubleshoots this? Is this just a hired electrician. or is it the people who installed the SCADA Jared Cotton: so we had. we actually had Wilson Controls down here. They were replacing VFDs for us. and they were here with Daigle electric. our on call electricians. So they were the ones that that noticed this was the issue. So I mean. definitely Daigle will be involved. but I'm not sure if i. If they will also recommend having Wilson Controls too. Unknown: Yeah. All right. well. knock on wood that this is a simple thing at the end of the day Michael Gitten: only because it's been in the news. It's it's any bugs in the in the computers. or anything that you're aware of. Tom of you. Tom Holder: yeah. So we're not aware of any cyber. you know. attack that we get. We get warnings. IT is pretty tuned in with that type of stuff. So it just. I think it's a matter of. you know. we've been making a lot of changes at the plant. We've had a lot of different folks in the plant. and it's just taking a little bit of time to work out all of these little idiosyncrasies that were coming about. And I know each each month we as go we go by where we're looking forward to having this thing. you know. operating kind of back to normal. But I have to say. This plant has gotten a lot of attention. a lot of needed repairs. And. you know. I think in the next month or so. once we get all of this work that Jared is describing. I think we'll be in a much better place. and everything will be current. Michael Gitten: So is the last thing on the major capital improvements. the screens. the painting. is it this SCADA hook up? Is that all that remains to be done? Jared Cotton: Yeah. of this project? Yeah. that's. that's once that's hooked up. the whole screens and tank coding. all that will be officially closed. I mean. the the tank coatings have been finished like that. Is a separate project. then. yeah. that is completely done. Unknown: nice. Well. I guess this is why we are slowly. you know. we put that that informed cap on the design flow. Mm. hmm. Okay. what any updates on the Oxbow FOG matter? Jared Cotton: Um. I. I don't believe so. I believe we gave them a notice. and I think that that's. as far as I'm aware. Tom Holder: yeah. we actually. you know. some administrative things. I mean. obviously we are continuing to hire somebody to to vacuum out the fat soils and grease on a periodic basis. as we as we deem it necessary. We charge them for it. They are current on their payments. We have engaged town council on some likely next steps this weekend. We it's not proper to sustain this. you know. vacuuming it out. cleaning it out on a monthly basis. We just can't sustain that. And that's not the way we should continue. Michael Gitten: So that was so. so it's kind of got into a bad. a known. but bad pattern of about every month it needs. it needs maintenance. That is not normal for this type of operation. Tom Holder: Yeah. that's. that's correct. We don't. we didn't experience having these fat soils and grease it. It wreaks havoc on the equipment. And. you know. cleaning it is a short term solution. but it's not a long term solution. And they've got some engineers that they've. you know. contracted with. some of them that have been on board since Wood Partners owned it and the prior owner. and so they still are engaged with us. and have a difference in opinions. which is not all that unexpected. but we've kind of. we've kind of exhausted the engineering back and forth. and Now I think. you know. it's gotten to a point where that we need to have some attorneys weigh in. and you know. we have our regulations where we feel pretty strongly about what we can expect there. and we're not. we're not. they're not meeting those expectations. Michael Gitten: Thank you. Uh. anything else. what? Darren Bock: What's the. what has the flow been Jared? Jared Cotton: um. it's still pretty consistent with. with the summer we our flow is definitely dipped a little bit like we got down to like 25. 26 a few times. but still averaging around like 30.32. on our discharge this last month. having having slightly elevated discharge flows from the wash water of the screens. I. But yeah. still. still pretty typical. Alta is still giving us. you know. like between 11 and 12 or 11.13 you know. averaging 12. yeah. okay.
Michael Gitten: and none of the. none of the new restaurant in the bank haven't come online. have they formally done anything? Or I'm jumping ahead on agenda. Maybe we can. We can circle back to that. Okay. Darren. Ed. any other comments questions for operations.
Unknown: Um. my only comment. I mean. would be. I mean. out outside of this electrical issue. right? This PLC. everything else was the work we had planned. right? So you didn't have any other unknown. like. oh my god. what happened. right? Type of thing. yeah. it was all planned work. So that's good. Well. you said it was busy. It was planned. Tom Holder: Yeah. it was planned. you know. And I think scheduling it. you know. a lot of these. a lot of these phases of the improvements had to be sequenced. And. you know. so getting that done. getting the right people in the building. one after the other. You know. was took a took a little bit of effort. but the work itself was planned. and it was just a matter of scheduling and getting those right folks in the building. you know. in a proper sequence.
Michael Gitten: Okay. so then we can move on to Sarah in the financial report. Sarah Pawluczonek: Okay. pull that up right now.
Can everyone hear me and see the report Okay.? Tom Holder: clearly. yep. Sarah Pawluczonek: excellent. Okay. so this goes through August 31- 17% of the way complete. Everything is in the forecast for now. obviously it's always a little bit. You know. early on the forecast. the only notable overage and expenses predicted is with water. which is what Jared mentioned. So you can see that I'm predicting around 5.700. I looked at the reading. did the math. I know we have a very high water bill next time. we already had a decently high one. So. you know. we didn't plan for that. We didn't expect that. So that will be something that will either run that line over. or it will have to come out of something like contingency. depending on how we feel. It should be. you know. paid off. Unknown: Was it related to the project? Sarah Pawluczonek: It? I mean. I would say so. right. Jared. or. I don't know. we could probably do it that way. Jared Cotton: I think I'd say so. because the project isn't. this is happening. because the project isn't completed. because we don't have the communication box yet. So once that is in. the project is done. and we shouldn't have this issue anymore. Unknown: I just. I don't know where we're at on the project budget. That's all. Sarah Pawluczonek: I will definitely shoot down to that real quick just to address that so we looks like we've spent and have encumbrances. leaving us with 43.000 well. 44.000 out of the 526. so there is some room for that. There are a few other things. I believe. I just got another invoice from Daigle which will have to go against that. So that was about. I want to say that was a few 1000. I do not remember the exact number. I'm not certain what else is yet to come. Jared. and you'll know more than me what's left. I know we're done with the tank painting and the Alsen portion of that is paid off. That's a separate project. but still that's done. other than electrical work and whatever mechanical assistance we're getting and the water. I'm not sure if there's anything else left to come through. Tom Holder: but you had made a remark at the last meeting. Darren. you know that anything associated with the project should be paid from the project. And we're at that same philosophy. you know. So what Sarah was just talking about moments ago. it does appear that we'll have. you know. a balance that we'll be able to pay from the project funds. Unknown: Yep. yes. I mean. I've been like. said. I know Matt had a different argument than you could argue it either way. but I don't know. I've always gone with account for it where it lies. right? Tom Holder: Yeah. yeah.I think he was saying. you know. legally. you know. accounting. by accounting principles. You could pay for it from. you know. two different sources. but yeah. we're of the philosophy that if it's associated with the project. we have. you know. we have project funds available. The right place to put it is within the project. Darren Bock: Yep. okay. Sarah Pawluczonek: yeah. when that comes through. we'll make sure we you. Make that. We'll put that against the project instead of the water line. So there's nothing surprising at all in operating expenses. It's all pretty much status quo. nothing else besides that one. You know. we do have obviously small. small equipment is something that we put together and chip away at all year. and the intention is always to spend that entire thing in order to keep things moving. I know that you have a list that takes that whole number down. Jared. I believe we don't have to worry too much about long term. term debt and principle that is already pre planned. and that exact amount is exactly what goes out. The revenue looks good. As far as bringing in wastewater user charges. that's already at. you know. 27% of target with one billing. which makes sense because it's a quarter. So that's really good. little tiny bit over. And we have another billing going out in the middle of this month. which will come due a month from then. So mid October. with the next time we see more revenue we have a little bit of this is. I think. lien revenue coming in coming in.
from the prior year. So. you know. there's always late. I'm not sure it was just $15 nothing to write home about. But those liens are in process. The demand notices have gone out. I'll be making phone calls soon. I have not. I do not have a list of how many. just yet. kind of waiting to see who's going to pay or give them a chance to at least come due on the demand notice. and then start. you know. we send out a second notice as well. But between the first and the second is when I will generally start making phone calls. which are only to commercial accounts because we don't have residential phone numbers. If I find one. and I'm lucky enough to have one. I will. but it's usually the commercial accounts that I'm able to communicate to. so at least give them till the due date. which is approaching. and then we have the service order. which is the third pump out from McVac for the Alta wet well. so that came in in this year. because it was billed towards the end of last year. So that is in here under the service orders. I don't know when the next time that will come around coming around again soon. and we're billing it out again soon. again.
It's pretty much a wash. because we build them for what we pay. So it's not really a generator. It's more of a nuisance for us to do the work. But. and then some interest is. you know. 20. almost 3.000 and that is really it. It's kind of early. It's not a lot to talk about. other than the fact that we've. you know. used a lot of our two projects budgets. and we have not started with the we haven't paid anything towards the low pressure sewer replacement design project yet. Darren Bock: Where did we end up for last year.
Sarah Pawluczonek: for the screens project? Unknown: No. just overall financial. What Sarah Pawluczonek: financial? Unknown: What did we end up taking from? Sarah Pawluczonek: Let me grab that. I'll put it up on the screen. Unknown: retained? Or do we even have to? Sarah Pawluczonek: No. it's fine. I can definitely pull that up quickly when I can get my fingers on it. Here should be the final.
Unknown: yeah. like said it's early when you're looking at like this. Sarah Pawluczonek: yeah. is. can you see the new document up? Did that move over? Okay. Tom Holder: black. blank screen. Sarah Pawluczonek: All right. I'm gonna stop. I'm just gonna stop sharing. reshare. because sometimes it just doesn't. yeah. yep. Tom Holder: Good move. Sarah Pawluczonek: Okay. So go to the bottom. yep. our total operating expenses. We did end up with. you know. money left over. I cleared out the forecast at this point because this is just to close out so. and then we had revenue of that with our and then our totals are down here. Darren Bock: operating income in 24 total income. 23 loss without operating so help me? Guess what? I'm what I'm wondering is I thought if we said that we would end in the positive. we would take less from retained earnings. right? So the idea would be that retained earnings wouldn't be drawn down as much as we predicted. Sarah Pawluczonek: right Darren Bock: So is that. I mean. I see you have it. I think you have it accounted for 105. there in the retained earnings. Sarah Pawluczonek: yes. just to balance the numbers over here with the initial But what ends up happening is. of course. if we don't use it. it just stays in retained earnings so. Unknown: got it so. so it should stay in retained earnings. right? Should? Oh. yeah. I would assume. all right. So our retained earnings number that we were going with Matt that. as you know. we kept talking about how its depleting right now will not. I mean. like said. this gives us a bump as we do the analysis for next year. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. I mean. that definitely is something that we I know we built some of that expectation into the rate study already with what we expected to carry forward. so it's not a surprise amount. But yes. okay. and I was just thinking about something which. with the Terrain project. which. of course. brings in privilege fee money. which we don't have on this budget. I'll go back to the other one. I'm gonna have a privilege fee on the other one. Yeah. I think I might have. I might have glossed right over that. and I meant to bring that up. Unknown: So we took no. no retained earnings last year that. that that's just an accounting exercise there. right ? there. Sarah Pawluczonek: that that's the way I read this. Well. there's two retained earnings polls. actually. because there's the 95 and then there's a 105 so it's. you know. 200 is the plan so. but we should have. we should have saved. we should have only taken about 75.000 in the end. Easy math. Unknown: right? Sarah Pawluczonek: right So. yeah. so that was good. so that Unknown: we had fore for the for the engineer. So we had forecasted around 200 grand. and we took 75 grand. Is that Sarah Pawluczonek: that should be how it sorted out. correct? And. yeah. of course. the where's my privilege fee line? It's in here somewhere. Oh. yeah. you can see right here. sorry. the 128 Yep. Unknown: So I don't think we see your do we see the new. No. that's all right. I remember. I remember seeing it. But you. I was. I was about. I forgot to make comment on to Sarah. Sarah Pawluczonek: Its a big one Unknown: So we're. we're predicting that based upon connections coming in the Sarah Pawluczonek: the $128.856. that's. that is the cash check that we have. Oh. wow. Okay. we have that. That's not. that's. there is no prediction. because you never know Right? Got it. Got it. I could add something if I get a little closer with some of the others. because there was another restaurant I'm jumping ahead out. I can wait until we get to that too home to Unknown: the same thing. Okay. now I get it. I get it. I didn't see that. You didn't have it in the forecast. Okay. that's good. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. it is. Unknown: Okay. So what's not getting even better for the year we still haven't really experienced the Council of Aging or the Library being fully operational for very long. Tom Holder: Yeah. library is yet to formally connect. Unknown: Really? What do they do? I thought they disconnected their septic. Tom Holder: Yeah. they're they've got some internal pumping issues to work through. from what I understand. so I don't think we're receiving them yet. Michael Gitten: Okay. and I thought it was a backup pump or something. Wow. Okay.Okay. okay. any. anyone. any questions on the financial end of things? So it does. it does. It's a good we could keep talking. and Sarah request for new services. So sure. what's the what's the background on the 128.000 Sarah Pawluczonek: so that is the privilege fee that was assessed for Terrain for their project. and that includes the usual calculation based on the privilege fee rate. plus. because they fall within that threshold for the study. it adds that number on there too. So it's a combination of both. I think they were around. I'm gonna ballpark at 2.100 they needed. in addition to what they had over there. And another project came forward. which I don't think is going to get off the ground. but it was a request for about 3.000 more. and it was another restaurant. I have not heard from them. but they also fell in with. obviously. the rate plus the study cost. because of that number. But I'm not banking on that one. because that's a it doesn't seem like it's getting any traction. We'll see. I guess I wouldn't predict it. I wouldn't put it in the forecast yet. There. the Dunkin Donuts. I hear rumbling. still. sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. But again. they haven't come back to us. You know. if you hear from them periodically. but I I'm hearing that they're starting to maybe actually do some construction. So we might actually. that might actually happen this year. We will see. Unknown: yeah. you could see they something was going on. and they're actually. that's one where they're talking about putting two putting two small restaurants in that building. right. right. or two casual. We don't have fast food two casual. uh. fast casual. Darren Bock: fast casual. Michael Gitten: with a drive through that you have to only use your app for. So. but that's not on so that's all there. If you explain the study. what is that? How much was that. and what does that involve? Sarah Pawluczonek: That's in our privilege fee document. and that I believe. is 75.000 or a I can't eloquently explain the type of there are different thresholds. but that's like a Tom Holder: So we have in our. you know. right now. we've full scale. Tom. you might be able to explain that better than me. That's out of my comfort zone. yeah. gotten our capital budget to do an evaluation and preliminary design for the system that lies within Route 20. yeah. So. as Sarah explains in our privilege fee document. it talks about it. if somebody is seeking. and the threshold might be over 500 gallons per day. that they actually then pay a component of necessary evaluations. So there's a calculation. and I think that's what that's what the intent is. to use the Terrains payment for that planned work. Michael Gitten: So that's going to focus on the conveyance to the plant. not the plant. Tom Holder: I believe that is the case.
Unknown: And that goes back to the budget that you showed us. Is it. would it go towards that online item that's already in the the budget . that's in our retained earnings. technically. the low pressure sewer replacement is that I'm looking. Sarah Pawluczonek: oh. that was that capital project is in on our budget. I can bring it back up too. if it helps Unknown: the design. Is this a similar would it? Would it alleviate the need or some of that. Would it be redundant to that? Or is that what it is Sarah Pawluczonek: that might already be borrowed? Oh. sorry. I'm sorry. Tom I assume that's already borrowed. but I don't know. maybe it's not borrowed yet. Tom Holder: So. yeah. it's what is planned for. You know. they call it a BAN. It's like a short term borrow before the finance department actually does their formal borrowing later in November. but it would be put towards that. So it would. it would lessen the actual. you know. town. or. you know. commission exposure on that project. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yep. And as that's really it for new entries to the system for now. just movement in town center. which is already pre purchased. and they did ask and inquire about purchasing more flow at one point. I have not heard back in a few months. I do hear there's a sale possibly underway or something changing over there. so I don't know if that will take time. Unknown: So. so that means we have about 8.000 gallons available for others at this point Sarah Pawluczonek: Sounds about right. Michael Gitten: Yeah. it does. yeah. So I just so others know I did go give an overview to the planning board about our basically. I read the privilege free document. They were sorely disappointed. They thought I was going to give them a primer on Title Five. I was like. no. So they and basically- the party line is. our goal is to comply with our discharge permits. get as much flow as we can. because we believe that will help keep rates down. And there's still some that feel we need to. I think they're misreading or we we need to dig up. when we had outside counsel. read the preamble of our our issuing charter or or authorization from the state. There's still confusion on that. what it allows us to do so but that's how I knew that 10.000 off top my head. because and that. that that. when you say the Terrain was that just. does that include the the old dentist office? Is it both parts? Is it because it's by parcel. right? Sarah Pawluczonek: Yes. Tom Holder: yeah. that that includes both which they're going to utilize that front building as well. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. the front building had enough flow. They didn't need to increase anything over there. It was just for the large building in the back. Unknown: right. Well. the next big connection. maybe we can get someone to do the statistical analysis to see on the design. flow. appropriateness. the Title five basis. but that's for next. next big project that comes through the town every five years. 10. Okay. anything else on?
Uh. so the the minutes and I just. I don't know whether this is I did related to that. I think it is equivalent of minutes. So I don't think it's necessarily new business and not looking for real discussion here. but I had volunteered to take a stab at the annual report that we need to submit by the end of this month. I believe correct. And I basically took last year's. took out some of the history about Oxbow. and sent it around last night. And definitely Sarah. if you to correct the numbers. the only number that is correct is is the rates for the next year or the current year. And I guess I was selective. I did notice for a while that Wind River was not sending around that nice one page sheet that tells total flow. And they are. I'm happy to see they're doing it again. I think when they went to the the automatic DMR. they but it for what it's worth. I find that very helpful. and I hope that I asked that they continue to do that. I don't know. I don't know what. what to call it. Jared. do you know what I'm talking about? The the one pager. where they summarize all our flow. Jared Cotton: Um. I know the page you're talking about. but. yeah. I'm not sure how to like phrase it exactly. but yeah. like it's. it's like the flow totals. Michael Gitten: DMR. yeah. it's not Yeah. but it's Yeah. For a while there I noticed. when I was looking at the past year. they weren't doing that. Sarah Pawluczonek: They would send it in chunks. I think. they would send a few at a time delayed. yeah. Unknown: yeah. and. and. yeah. that's I noticed that too. Sarah Pawluczonek: I might have some that you don't I don't know if they've left people off. You know what I mean? So if you're looking for any particular ones that you're missing. let me know I might have them. Unknown: I just got excited when I looked at one that said 35.000 gallons. And I said. Ooh. our flows up. But I think what I really was probably seeing was US generating flow due to the work we were doing versus overall. Maybe. maybe the flow over the last last state. fiscal town. fiscal year. maybe went up 2% I percent. Nothing. nothing. real significant. So. so if people have comments on that. I'm more than happy to take them and consolidate or otherwise. I'll just work with Sarah and Tom and Jared to wrap that up. Sarah Pawluczonek: Yeah. I'll take a look at that today. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. but it will get done today. Unknown: Yeah. no. I'm fine with that. Mike. you know. I lot of it's repetitive the prior years. other than just updating the project and latest financials done. Michael Gitten: yeah.
Tom Holder: so probably a motion and vote to. you know. to use Mike's draft version. You know. with updates from. you know. Sarah and Jared. and vote on that. just so we have a formal vote so that you're able to submit it. you know. in the next week or two. prior to the next meeting. Would be. I think that'll be helpful. Unknown: Okay. I make a motion that the draft annual report that I circulated on the the seventh. be updated with the facts. the financial facts and other. you know. corrections that people might see related to the facts that we make those updates and submit. submit it as our 2025. annual report.
Second. Darren Bock: yeah. I'll second that motion.
Michael Gitten: Mike Gitten in favor.
Darren Bock: Darren Boch in favor. Tsung Chiang: Yeah. I'm in favor Michael Gitten: Okay. um. okay. Now to the minutes i Unknown: i read where my name was. everything looked good. Where my name was from. what I can remember. but I did. I did go in and sign it. so that's good. And that was in the motion that we nominate Darren. So I did make it there. Yeah. I have no comments. Ed. any comments on the minutes that were circulated last week by Sarah. I don't. I don't have any comment. but I I have to apologize because my computer I never. I only check email twice a day. in the early morning and late at night. just trying to do things simple. Another thing I have apologize I really doesn't know that much about small wastewater treatment plan. I usually design the big city stuff. so that's that's how it is.
Michael Gitten: Well. we appreciate it. Unknown: Yeah. no. you got a leg up on me? Michael Gitten: Yep. Okay. then the meeting minutes are. did I make a motion to approve the meeting minutes? I make a motion to approve the June 9. 2025. meeting minutes? Mike. yes. Darren Bock: Darren. yes.
Tsung Chiang: And okay. yes.
Unknown: Okay. So when's our next meeting? Sarah Pawluczonek: That is pretty late in October. I think it is the 20th at 11am if that still works. and we probably should put another one on there. another couple. if we can. just so we can give the town a heads up so it can. you know. block out that time for us.
Tom Holder: Yeah. So. what do we usually? We're usually. what the third Monday. I don't know the So. the 17th of November is that? Work for folks looking the
Michael Gitten: only request I make. is there any way we can make it at 1130 on that day? Is that a problem? Darren Bock: I'm good. Tom Holder: I think staff would be all right. I think Sarah Pawluczonek: fine with me. Michael Gitten: Know we're going to talk about by then is the successful completion of the projects electrical fix and how someone's gobbled up to the last 8000 gallons of privilege fee. Unknown: Tom is going to say that the plants back at 70 miles per hour. Michael Gitten: Yeah. and we got a quarter million dollars of revenue we didn't anticipate.
Unknown: Okay. any. anything else. anything. any topics we didn't cover. Tom Holder: just that I missed the I missed the Polar Park conversation. was I was there for the first time on Saturday. I hadn't been before. And of course. the day that I decided to go take you for a birthday gift. we wind up with a tornado warning. It was like unbelievable. The the weather. they shut the place down. They had to relocate whatever 14.000 people that that place holds into what they call the DCU cocktail. you know. lounge and yeah. so it was. you know. safe to say I didn't get to see the game. I guess I'll go another time. or whatever. But man. what a first experience at Polar Park. It's a gorgeous place. So if you're going there. if you're going there for a trade show tomorrow. I think you'll. I think you'll. you'll be impressed. Michael Gitten: Okay. yeah. I've been there for a game. but now just answer. It is in the DCU cocktail center. but then it spills out into the promenade. Tom Holder: yeah. concourse areas that are open covered. but open and yes. yes. yeah. it's nice. Unknown: Okay. sorry to interrupt this really quick. I'm sorry. Mike. actually. on October 20. can we move that from noon to one at all? That worked for everybody. Michael Gitten: I'm sorry that works. Actually. It actually works better for me if we could still do it. Unknown: Guys are okay with that. Sarah Pawluczonek: That's fine Unknown: sorry to interrupt your launch Tom Holder: one is that what you said? Unknown: Yeah. yeah. Darren Bock: I have a training that I've been signed up for. Unknown: Okay. okay. so 1pm start. or noon. or noon. Sarah Pawluczonek: oh. noon to 1pm sorry. Unknown: Or you can do a one start. either one. Michael Gitten: I'm open to whatever. Folks
Tom Holder: would do. You think you'd be jammed Darren at noon or Unknown: no. I'll be fine at noon. 11. doing a whole artificial intelligence course and all that. So. okay. Tom Holder: I'm done by Yeah. Okay. yeah. Sarah Pawluczonek: olOkay. I'll put noon and then thanks. The updates coming.
Great. Michael Gitten: Okay. well. we'll do this all again on the 20th at noon. All right. that we adjourn. Unknown: yep. second that motion. sorry. Mike. All right. I forgot about that procedure. Second that Sarah Pawluczonek: we're rusty. It's been a while. Darren Bock: Yeah. we're rusty. All right. bye. Good seeing everyone. Unknown: Bye. everybody. Thank you.
Zoning Board of Appeals
Thomas White: Alright. Good
evening. This is the September
9, 2025 meeting with the Wayland
zone Board of Appeals. I'll read
the preamble here, pursuant to
chapter two of the acts of 2025
the meeting will be conducted in
in person, conducted in person
and via remote means, in
accordance with applicable law.
The public meeting link can be
found on the mail in town
calendar site. This meeting may
be recorded, made available to
the public on WayCAM as soon
after the meeting as is
practicable. Times are
approximate, and some items may
not be discussed in the order
listed or at the specific time
estimated. All topics may be
subject to deliberation vote
we're required by law or allowed
by the chair. Persons wishing to
provide public comment or
otherwise participate in the
meeting may do so by in person
attendance or by accessing the
meeting remotely. We request
that public comments be limited
to two minutes per person, so
before we get started with the
full agenda, is there any public
comment tonight that's not
related to the specific cases,
right? Hearing, none. Moving on
to the second item, which is to
review and approve the draft
minutes. This is to highlight a
quick typo here. The agenda says
the draft minutes are from 813,
2025 but they're actually from
812, 2025 is there? On the board
had a chance to review the
minutes? No, you've not. Do you
would you be able to take a
quick read through the minutes
now? Yes, okay, perfect, because
I want to avoid challenge with
challenges with
Justine Paul: i Can I comment on one quick thing for the minutes, the minutes state that I was on Zoom and arrived at 720 And I was in person and I was on time. Thomas White: Oh, okay.
Justine Paul: I think that was the July meeting that those bands were correct. Thomas White: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, it's that's what's bad. Looked at July 8, 2025 are the ones that appear to be on the Share points Justine Paul: I saw the Oh, so that's maybe, that was, maybe that's Thomas White: probably is. I think that's why. Okay, the meeting, yeah, the meeting notes we have here are from July 8, Adam Hirsh: so not August, Thomas White: no, so it looks like the draft minutes for August. August 12, they're not here. Adam Hirsh: Okay, so I've checked, I've I've reviewed July,
Thomas White: yeah, so then, so Justine, your, your, your comment is for the July notes, or your comment was for August, but you misread these as July.
Justine Paul: So my comment was for August, but I thought that that was what August had said. And now I need to go back, because I thought that that was what it said for August Thomas White: as well. Yeah, I'm not seeing a copy of the August meeting notes on the Share file.
Justine Paul: just misread. Miss opened up the wrong one. Then hold on, Unknown: August Justine Paul: minutes. Hold on, what Minutes did I read? Is okay, Thomas White: all right, Justine Paul: hite Thomas White: the August one. I've got the August ones here. Now is everyone so you, you had read the August ones, so, but in your comment was still stands. Hunter Perry: that my comment still stands that I was on Zoom,
wait, yeah, yes, Thomas White: sorry. All right. So, um, I guess we're going to have to modify these minutes to reflect the fact that Mr. Perry was attending via zoom, not in person.
Do you have the same comment? Ms Paul
Justine Paul: for August. Yes, I was in person for August.
Thomas White: Okay, Adam Hirsh: no i still. Thomas White: What else All right, so it looks like we're it looks like we're editing these right now live, so. Nathan Maltinsky: I understand. I understand.
Adam Hirsh: I don't need to vote on eight minutes this August. Thomas White: No, you weren't. It's your, yeah. You weren't here hirsh: July. Yes, Thomas White: yep. All right, just breezing through these right now. So if we just, if we just correct that Justine Paul was in person, not by zoom,
Adam Hirsh: and that she was not there, Thomas White: and she was on time very Important subject. This is the 7pm hearing. This is the zba case 25 minutes as amended during the hearing on September 9 dash 24 this is the 40 D classification of amendment. This is the application of the Wayland Municipal Affordable Housing Trust for amendments the original 40 D special permit. This is case number 21 dash 29 which was for 40 B special permit request for 12 Hammond road parcel ID 51B-034. This Before we get started on this, I had a meeting with the building request is for an amendment involving a change to the Commissioner, myself and town counsel, and we discussed this. We don't need to vote on this. This is literally this can be a discussion on the board, if we are in agreement that the well, a discussion about whether the change to the footprint would be considered insubstantial. We reviewed, on the call, the kind of criteria that we would look through to make that determination. And it was noted that what's happening with this particular project is the footprint of the houses changing slightly from a very rectangular shape to a slightly more square shape. The setback, as a result, does change, but it's still greater than the setback allowed in this district. So I think it's very clear that that would be indicative of substantial footprints of the proposed home. change. There's no chamy. It's a single family structure. It's the massing of it has slightly been modified, but the program hasn't changed. The interior configuration has minimally changed, but that room count, the components that make up the bulk of the project are exactly the same as they were. It's literally just a kind of a slight modification to the footprint. So I don't know how to respond. I think it would be considered insubstantial, yeah. So according to town counsel, this is not something that we need to vote on. This is more or less a discussion, and town counsel would be happy to to draft an amendment to the decision. And we also have some cleaned up copies that were given to us tonight that explain the two different versions of the you know, the one that we approved and the new version that we have. So what, what does the board think? Adam Hirsh: I don't have any problems I, data is this is definitely something extremely minor, and in some cases, actually makes it more compliance of. I'm fine. I'm fine with that. Hunter Perry: I didn't see any floor plans. And do you see the floor plans or not? Thomas White: They didn't. They didn't submit a set of floor plans, but, but we were assured that it's, it's a, the proposed three bedroom dwelling is still the proposed three bedroom dwellings. And if you look at the if you look at the footprint, the change would be very minimal inside, Nathan Maltinsky: if I may chair. The only thing that changed was the setbacks on the left side, from 24 feet one inch to 15 feet, three inch. So still is in the 15 foot setback. And this is full. To be yourselves, permitted anyway, but that's the biggest change.
Thomas White: Any other discussion,
Hunter Perry: pretty straightforward. Thomas White: So I think, I think the board is in agreement that we could consider this an insubstantial change, and we can direct town counsel to Adam Hirsh: trust agreement Justine Paul: And I think that I was in agreement previously as well, so I Hunter Perry: I didn't have an explanation, really, do you like that? And all I really had was the original, like copy of the plans. Thomas White: And it was very it was a little, it was presented in a way. It was a little bit confusing for the board to understand. Unknown: This seems pretty straightforward. Thomas White: I think it's straightforward, alright, so, so I'll, I'll connect back with Town Counsel, and I'll direct them to make an amendment, or, I guess it's process, a request for the amendment to the change that footprint house, Adam Hirsh: great. Thank you. Nathan Maltinsky: Thank you. Thomas White: All right, so, all right, it's 717 so we can move on to the 710 hearing. This is a discussion and review of compliant with a special permit, 22 dash, 21 for the school bus parking at the 41 Cochituate road. This is a special permit granted in August 2022 for the continued parking, temporary parking of up to 16 school busses at the rear lot, 4124 road. The permit is valid through August, 31 31st 2027, and includes conditions prohibiting fueling or fluid top offs on the site and requiring the installation of physical barriers to protect against vegetated areas. So do we have is someone making a presentation to us this evening for this Nathan Maltinsky: I thought my Mike Faia was gonna be,
Michael Faia: yeah, I'm on guys. I'm on the phone. I Thomas White: Oh, perfect. All right. So good evening. Good evening. Mike, do you want to it's a little informal, right? I mean, this is really a check in. And, you know, we had requested a checking period after a few years to assess how the special permit was going. So we were looking for you to give us an update on the status of this, and the board has received some other communication from, I think, from a conservation commission that we can go through separately. But okay, yeah, if you could give us an overview, that'd be great. Unknown: Yes, from what I know, this was done long before I started, but as it stands right now, everything has been going fine there. There isn't any fueling going on. We were asked to do some protective measures along the border of the parking lot where it meets the conservation land and the children's play area, and we were asked to rework some of the signage so that it explained the parking a little better, and we added a crosswalk off the main crosswalk, so that it was there's some accessible, people could could use the accessible ramp a little bit easier from the parking lot. Other than that, I don't have much more to report.
Thomas White: Okay, I guess I ask you probably have not seen the email from the Conservation Commission that was sent to zoning board. Michael Faia: I probably I have not no
Thomas White: so well, let me. Let me read. Let me read this email that the zoning board received today, September 9. This is from Linda Hansen, conservation, Conservation Director for Wayland, yes, so that to the board, she writes, in compliance with the ZBA permit and conservation, the conservation order of conditions, the bus parking was historically not allowed in the rear parking area. It was my understanding that the ZBA allowed busses, bus parking in this parking as a temporary solution. If that is true, I believe that that is what was discussed. She goes on to say that the parking spaces in the front of the building were striped without permission from the ZBA and are not legal. I'm not sure, but. Is referring to, but we can discuss that. she indicated, indicates that that's unsafe for drivers exiting their cars in the travel lane. Also, it has concerns about the number of cars entering the parking lot and cutting through to Pelham Island Road, noting that there are no sidewalks or pedestrian crossings. She also notes that the proximity of the riverfront doesn't allow anyone to construct sidewalks or pedestrian crossings, um, the busses, she says, In addition, the bustles, busses are not allowed to idle in the back parking lot or be maintained, but both of those activities happen on frequent basis. The land directly behind the busses is a priority habitat for Rare and Threatened species. And if these conditions for the permit cannot be followed, the busses need to move. So this is, this is a little difficult because that's, you know, we did agree to a temporary special permit. You know, that is valid only through August 2027 but as part of that permit, we did ask for a check in to sort of understand the status of what was happening. I'm concerned because I think we're going to need to do some investigation, because the assertions from this email contradict what we just heard, and I think contradict the permit that we approved. So I don't know that we're going to be able to get to an answer to this tonight. I was a little surprised at the email, but I think this is potentially a problem.
Adam Hirsh: would it be value add for them to to get together, Thomas White: and yeah, I think it would be important. I don't think we can. We can't. We can't take any action on on this tonight. I'm not planning on that. But I think at a minimum, we need to have, I think we need to facilitate some communication between Mr. Faia and Hansen so we can understand the difference of interpret. Interpretation, or the concerns about the execution of the special permit.
Hunter Perry: I guess looking at the conditions of the special permit, I'm trying to kind of cross examine what is not being adhered to.
Adam Hirsh: There sounds like idling is what it sounded like, and Michael Faia: which is kind of confusing, because you have diesel busses that need to start and run. I don't know how I, once again, wasn't here for the original. So I you know, other than it's, it's, it's, it's something that a diesel engine has to do. It's not idling, it's just warming up, which you could Adam Hirsh: Why don't we give them the opportunity to have a conversation and then have them come back next month to give an update based off of conversations, and is that something that you can be amenable to? Thomas White: Is that? I think, I think that makes sense. I Adam Hirsh: I don't think you're going to be able to get any think I
answers this evening without having any conversations or having them do follow up before you know? Thomas White: No, I think yes, Adam Hirsh: something more concrete. Thomas White: I think Mr. Perry makes a good point. If you listen to the 10, if you read the 10 conditions we've outlined, they don't. re they don't mention anything that is contained in the conservation email from the Conservation Director. So it may be, it may be a situation where those things may be occurring, and they may, they may be problematic, but they aren't necessarily things we conditioned in line items one through 10 in the special permit that we granted. You know, permit number 22 dash 21 but in the interest of kind of moving things forward, I think at a minimum, we need to see if we can have some internal coordination between the Conservation Commission and and Mr. Faia, at least, to understand in the context of the decision and the request that we have to review this, you know, how do we, how do we, kind of, I guess, bridge these concerns. Nathan Maltinsky: I do have some information. I was on peripheral when this whole thing went down, so I will hold comment until I speak to both parties and okay, and then we can discuss all this next month. Michael Faia: It would be helpful if I could see the email from Linda. That would be, Thomas White: yeah, we just got it today, so we can absolutely forward that to you Michael Faia: all right, that'd be helpful so I know what, so I know what I'm addressing. Thomas White: I. Uh, understandable, Michael Faia: perfect. Thomas White: All right, Adam Hirsh: do we have to do a specific time for next month? I Thomas White: don't think so, because this is not, this isn't to hear this is a we're not, it's not an application for new permit. This is just a check in discussion. So I think we can just have a meeting. Well, we do. So I think we should agree that we'll sort of continue again. We don't have to vote on this. This is just a note that we want to add this to the to the next zoning meeting, which is Hang on. So we want to add this to the agenda for October 14 or the 10th. All right, so it being 726 we can move on to the 720 hearing. This is uh, page number 25 dash 23 for 10 chestnut roads. This is the application of Joseph Dorr, the owner of the property at 10 Chestnut Road, parcel ID 46b, 044, located in the R 20 zoning district. The applicant is seeking a variant special permit or other zoning relief as necessary to address adjust previously approved architectural plans from decision 24 dash 35 the proposed changes include repositioning Joe Dorr: right here. I'm Joe. the building and adding a stoop to the rear of the house. Do we Thomas White: Come up and introduce yourself and give us have anyone here to present that?
an overview of what you're looking to do. Unknown: I'm Joe Dorr and well, the septic system that was designed for the original plan was installed some time ago and hooked up to the old house, and with a current survey, is a problem with the set, the set, side set to the septic system. So we're asking to amend the variance to let us shift the house a little bit. And you know, really, there was always going to be a bulk head in the back and some sort of landing, and this wasn't drawn on the original footprint. Thomas White: So I'm just looking back at the original design. So the original special permit was to demolish an existing house right attached garage and construct a new two bedroom home with a one car garage. Yep, you're still doing the exact same, Joe Dorr: same Yep, same footprint. Just needs to shift a little bit. It's a small lot, and the septic system has encroached on the set back of the building. It was really Unknown: just got one foot. Yeah. Thomas White: Oh, that is the only change, right? The pretty much nine foot two goes to eight foot nine and eight foot five goes to seven foot five, Joe Dorr: correct.
Thomas White: And it was a bulkhead on the back that was not on the original one Unknown: There was a door opening there in the footprint, but they didn't draw the bulkhead Nathan Maltinsky: bulkheads are exempt from zoning. Thomas White: Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah. Um, all right, before we ask any questions, is there anyone else here tonight to talk about this case? Anyone online? Robbie Bullard: I'm seeing no online. Thomas White: Okay. I think this is completely reasonable. In my mind. I think the difference, the difference in one foot, I don't think is, is consequential. And I'm moving back through the previous decision. It it doesn't appear that we had any neighbors, uh, that expressed concerns at that time for the project. Yeah, any concerns further?
Unknown: You actually had a neighbor in favor that. for the project,
Joe Dorr: I think all the neighbors would still be in favor.
Thomas White: Any other questions from the board? I guess I have a question for the commissioner. Would we amend this permit, or do we need to create an entirely new decision? Nathan Maltinsky: I think we can amend this permit just because of the change in the footprint and just amend it for the setback on this site, okay? Because it'll be cleaner than I think, writing a new decision to make an amendment in the eight foot five to the 75 and the eight nine to the nine to nine of eight. Nine, yes, all right, very sorry.
Thomas White: I guess I would make a motion that the zoning board approves an amendment to decision 24 dash 35 that makes a slight modification to the footprint originally proposed, and reduces the east side yard setback from the approved nine foot two inches to eight foot Nine inches from the originally approved two foot five to the new dimension of seven foot five. Second, Adam Hirsh: Second.
Thomas White: Discussion.
I haven't named a panel. The panel is going to be the four of us, which does mean that this does need to be a unanimous decision. The panel is Justine Paul, Hunter Perry, Adam Hirsch and myself, Thomas White,
so all this to do a roll call vote. Ms Paul Justine Paul: aye. Thomas White: Mr. Mr. Perry Hunter Perry: aye, Thomas White: Mr. Hirsh Adam Hirsh: aye, Thomas White: Mr. White aye. So we've approved the amendment permit. So Anina, I can work with you on how to address this, because we're going to want to use this document, so we'll have to get a copy of this. Thank Mr. Perry, you wrote this so you might have the original document. You just we just need to probably send that to Anina. Unknown: So great. I have a question, sure, are we going to have to refile this for the Registry of Deeds? For this change, Thomas White: I think the amended permit would have to be filed with the Registry of Deeds. Joe Dorr: Okay, answered the question, Thomas White: yeah. I think that would be the appropriate thing to do. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming in. Good luck with this. Joe Dorr: Thank you, good night Thomas White: All right, so it is 734 so we can move on to the Kirstyn Lipson: Hi, good evening. My name is Kirstyn 730 hearing. This is a ZBA case. 25 dash, 2521 sorry, 25 dash, 25 for 21 Cochituate road. This is the application of the Millbrook Group LLC, Kirstyn Lipson, for property located at 21 Cochituate Road, parcel ID 23 dash 47 and Wayland MA in the business A zoning district. The applicant is seeking a restaurant. Each special permit property to convert to Cafe and Bistro, including outdoor patio seating. The structure is considered pre existing, non conforming structure as does not meet the setback requirements zoning by law. Additionally, the Lipson. Don't know if any address. I've seen other people property is located in the aquifer protection district and the National and Local Historic District. Additional zoning relief, such as variance variances or special permits may be required. So good evening. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what's what's being proposed here?
do it, Thomas White: but technically you're supposed to Unknown: Okay 10 Millbrook Road in Wayland, and I'm joined tonight by Alex. Oh, sorry. One side, Alex Sipes, he's with Avison and Young they're our project management firm as well. At Lake with Joe, the architect of our architecture firm, and then virtually Jeff Ugino, who is my lawyer, and I am the CEO and founder of the Millbrook group, and I'm coming to the committee tonight requesting a special use permit to operated cafe and Bistro at 21 Cochituate Road, also known as the Old Collins market building here in town, I'm in the process of purchasing the building from Senne Real Estate. It's currently zoned as a commercial, commercial property, but with my intent to turn it into a bistro and cafe, it'll need the special use. my intent is to call it Town House, which is really to honor the legacy of this building, which was the first public town hall, which we used to call town houses back in the 1800s. it will be really community and neighborhood focused. My goal is to preserve the legacy and the heritage and the historical nature of the building really breathe fresh new life and use into what is currently and somewhat neglected building, and certainly under under utilized in terms of kind of that, the tactics, tactical aspects It will operate from Tuesday to Friday, 7:30am to 3:30pm offering coffee, light, light bites of very grab and go kind of, kind of environment. Saturday and Sunday, it'll operate from eight to eight. We'll also be offering some afternoon tea as well as brunch and then in the evening kind of a wine bar, Bistro, type, type of atmosphere. There'll be a small dining room upstairs that will be library themed, also to honor the its role as the first public library back back in the day. And this area will serve as flex dining area for regular customers, or it can be rented out for intimate events such as bridal showers, as well as board meetings for local businesses, bridal showers, all of those kind of kind of opportunities. Kirstyn Lipson: the menu will offer really local, forward, sustainable, sustainable food, looking to partner with as many local farms and providers as possible. Again, really reinforcing that community aspect. If du plan to add a small patio in the back, it'll be modest, somewhere between eight to 10 seats. We'll have a natural screening to shield with the resident of abutter, who I've spoken with, and we've discussed the plans, and I've gained her support, and we will keep her apprised as we continue to move forward, especially given the hours only going to 8pm we don't expect noise or lights to be to be concerned there. I will say that as part of my application, I did request for setback relief. However, upon further examination by my legal team, we don't believe that this actually meets a structure definition, because it's just a patio. It's not covered, it's not attached to the property. So I would, I would request that we don't need relief on that element. One of the reasons that I really believe wholeheartedly in this project, and not only has it been a passion of mine that I've been looking to bring to life for the past two decades, actually, but this really fills a community lead. the Economic Development Committee did a survey over this last winter, and the number one most requested new business was a coffee shop. Wayland has no such offering, especially a local coffee shop offering artisan coffee. It's locally owned, owned and sourced that also offers opportunities for local business people to have meetings, social gatherings. Right now, they have to go to other neighboring towns, so this is an opportunity for Wayland to capture that business. 86% also requested more businesses next to the rail trail. This is within 300 feet of the rail trail, and 99% were concerned about empty storefronts, and this is definitely an underutilized historic building that has been a part of the town since 1841 so my intent is really to honor, honor this historic pillar of the community and bring it back to be a cornerstone that that can really serve, serve the area. My other relief request was on the parking situation, since this is a non conforming tlot can built in the 1840s before the car. it's, whenI first filed, and even when we spec with spoke with the town manager last week, we were using the full fire capacity, looking for the parking relief. in its current use as an office building, it is 13.5 spots. Is what it's relief. the brief relief it's been granted because there is no on site parking. There are six street parking spots right in front of it, and an additional six right around the corner on Pelham Island Road. However, the fire capacity is hardly, it's that's more of a theoretical capacity for this type of business. As I went through and looked at my projections hour by hour for the weekday and the weekend, the expected capacity is 45 patrons per hour during the week and 55 per hour during the weekend, and most of those will the average time is about 15 to 20 minutes stay. based on that, and including the the employee calculations, as well as the upstairs right hand side will continue to be leased by Sunne real estate for at least four to eight years. So including that consideration as well, that gets us to 15.8 spots during the week and 18.3 spots during the weekend. And according to the bylaw section five oh, 6.2 within 20% of the current use for parking, which, given the 13.5 spots, the weekday increase is within that 20% and the weekend is just over by two spots. So looking to request the release of those those two spots. So that is my spiel. I welcome any questions or comments
Unknown: or I'll type sorry Travis or Val thing that I missed that you want to add Nathan Maltinsky: up front support. Unknown: Yes, yes. Thank you that not only do only does this fulfill a need, a theoretical need, but there has been an outpouring of community support when I started mentioning it, just on the Wayland Facebook moms group, within 36 hours, I got over 50 letters, many of which I included in the application. I believe some have also been emailed directly to you. They include letters from the residential abutters, businesses nearby. One of them is also here tonight. And so I think that there is it really represents not only a theoretical community need, but an actual community need that I believe wholeheartedly, Town House that fulfill.
Thomas White: there's probably going to be some, I guess, questions from the board, but I guess before we go on is we need to hear if there's anyone else that wants to speak about this project. Here, you come up and introduce yourself. Kirstyn Lipson: Should I step aside? Thomas White: Yes, good, yes.
Win Treese: Thank you. My name is Win Treese, 11, Irwin Road and member of the Board of Library Trustees. I'm speaking tonight on behalf of the board at the trustees meeting on August 20, the board voted to authorize the chair and director to send you the letter of support that is you have in your packet. We are very excited about the project, as noted in the letter, the board unanimously supports creative use of the former Collins market. However, one of the options that has been discussed for parking relief is the library parking lot, and the library cannot provide any parking spaces for this use. The library is very limited parking as it is. a Town, a Town meeting gave the library board jurisdiction the full parcel at one Concord road containing the upper parking lot, including the unpaved built area behind the Freight House for expanded library parking that was under Article 32 of the 1986 town meeting, when Town meeting unanimously voted the land to be acquired from the MBTA its our understanding that another board cannot grant parking access, access to a lot under the authority of another board, even if done, however, any commitment to other uses would severely constrain the library's ability to plan for its future needs, and further complicated its abilities to provide adequate parking for the public coming to the library. Although the library cannot assist the outcome of parking, we think it would be reasonable to continue this matter the next zba meeting to explore other parking options if necessary. Thank you very much for your consideration. Thomas White: Okay, thank you. Anybody else ? so thank you for that. oh, sorry, I didn't see you. Unknown: That's alright. My name is Gretchen Schuler, 126 Old Connecticut Path, and I, although I serve on the Historic District Commission, I'm speaking myself. Uh, we've not had a meeting or had any discussion on the historic district commission. I think this is really exciting application. I've read through it, and there are lots of wonderful parts of it. I am concerned about the parking. and years ago, we had meeting of all of the boards that would I used to serve on the Plannng Board for really long time, and the Historic District Commission, the Historical Commission, and the Library and the Historical Society trying to figure out, what could we do? And I think it's going to take some action on the part of the town to the to get over this problem. Kirstyn Lipson: I mean, we've got the Depot, we've got the library area, which we've just talked about at that time, when we were talking about it was when the library was trying to decide, are they staying or they're going? And we kept talking about a two story structure in the parking lot of the parking of the library in order to accommodate parking. And I don't know if that's the the answer, but I think we have to think outside of the box for this. And you you're in a really tough position here to have to figure out how to accommodate parking and to allow them to go forward, but I'd hate to see it go down because of the parking, and I think we all need to get together and think about it. And the other part, I mean, because all the parking we're talking about is public parking. And the other thing, little, tiny thing that has come to my thoughts is that we have a really important property as a abutting this property as well. It's an 1820s Federal House, and the people have been there for a really long time. And so what will happen? I think the hours are great for them. But what about exhaust? And what about all of those, you know, the fans and all that kind of stuff, is that noisy? I don't know the answer to that. And I just think we want to make sure we think through those things and protect the properties around it. It's a residential property, if it were commercial, be another, another issue. But thank you. Thomas White: Thank you very much. Robbie Bullard: Michael McCall is online, sure, Michael, he's on. Thomas White: Okay, so you wanted to, do you have something to add Mr. McCall? Michael McCall: yes, good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the ZBA, I just wanted to follow up. I did meet with Miss Lipson the other week, and I did indicate I would follow up. She did follow up with me today, and I did send her an email. And similar to what the representative of the board of library trustees had indicated, I had followed up with the library trustees, our town counsel and through my staff, our insurer and I informed Miss Lipson that as the manager, that I could not endorse the the her request for relief. There was some issues that we felt with regard to setting a precedence of using these parking spaces, which are not a general municipal lot, as well as potential liability. It was recommended if we were going to entertain doing something like this, if, let's say the library trustees were inclined to do so, then I would need a lease agreement with indemnification language as well as appropriate insurance coverage. And in most cases, we would have to follow public procurement laws, and depending upon the value of the spaces, it may require a public bid process if we were going to do something like that. So first, the reasons that were stated by the library trustees, as well as some concerns we have about that intersection, pedestrian traffic that would be crossing to utilize the Bistro. We would not be in favor of allowing the use of those spaces. in your relief that you're looking at but notwithstanding that I really did enjoy the proposal, like other folks, I do think it's a well thought out business plan, but I just don't see how we could include town spaces for the parking relief as that it would open up the door to me having to offer that to other folks, and that would become problematic.
Thomas White: Okay Thank you. We have another, another question. If you could name, name and address with
Margery Baston: Margery Baston, 11 Cochituate Road right next to 21 Cochituate Road, I have. The same concerns about the parking. I love the idea, and lot of people are very enthusiastic about it, very well thought out. One of the small suggestions sounds to me that could help, maybe a teeny little bit if the town will be willing to do it. The town currently has four signs on Pelham Island Island road for two hour, parking back.
Okay, right now down the problem in front of the old Collins market is that you have people parking there all day, and your people parking in a depot, parking lot all day. It shouldn't happen. should it? so if the signs that you have on Pelham Island Road, the two hour parking were put on those six spaces in front of 21 Cochituate Road and used in the Depot Parking lot, I think you could bless the businesses there, including the Wayland Depot that wants to have people come and go and freely, you know, park for a short time, and it would, I hope, encourage employees or people who want to park there all day to find another place to park. Just a thought, Thomas White: thank you. Margery Baston: Oh, maybe I should sign Yes. Oops. Adam Hirsh: So we have the right to be able to do that. Unknown: There's a host of issues here. You will need some legal advice on but the short answer to that is, I don't. I have suspicions, but I'm not sure. Adam Hirsh: Yeah, suspicions. I
Thomas White: Any other public comment? it looks like so you want to go back up? Thomas White: okay, could you, I guess, give us a little more Kirstyn Lipson: Yes, that's okay. A couple additional points and clarifications. One, I know Mr. McCall when, when I spoke with him last week, that was when we were looking at the full fire capacity and using that for the parking relief. So just wanted to reiterate the reduced number looking at the expected actual capacity. Additionally, we expect a lot of the traffic to come from current rail trail users as well as municipal employees, the public and safety employees, other local businesses. So a lot of the traffic will be foot traffic, as well as bike traffic, or just already there, not net new traffic. We do plan on putting in bike racks to help accommodate the bike traffic. We've also met with Greg Dale from the Historic Commission, District, District commission, clarity on the parking space calculations and sort of looking and he has, we've talked about our plans about maintaining the historical nature. And you know, the really only front facing modification be making it ADA accessible with a ramp. And he's on board with that, so I'm definitely looking to collaborate closely with him. Also, I should say, given the extensive renovations required inside, we aren't looking to open until next June, so there is time to find a solution if we if we work collaboratively and creatively. And on the note about the pedestrian crosswalk, there is, for those who aren't familiar with that intersection, there is a not only crosswalk, but a light as well for the pedestrians. Yes, I think those were my my additional comments,
through
Kirstyn Lipson: Yes, okay, let me pull up my specific notes. They have it broken down by employees, patrons and the the real estate. Commercial, the office space for upstairs. Okay, so, correctly, okay, for we'll start with the the easy, the easiest part, the second floor office space will be 900 square feet per the code five 06.12 for office or professional space on the second floor, it's one spot per each 400 square feet of floor area. So 900 square feet divided by 400, 2.25 spaces for that quarter the building. Okay for the full time employee portion, the full time equivalent is seven FTEs, so no more than seven employees at any given time. And for that, it's for the code five0, 6.13 it's three, one space for every three employees. So that is 2.33 and then for the patrons, it is one spot for every four seats. And so initially, with our fire code capacity, it's 91 seats. However, as as I mentioned, looking at the expected capacity, it's 45 seats per hour. Again, many of those will be a quick turn during the week, and 55 per hour during the weekend. And so that that netted out to on the 40 the 45 it came to. Unknown: All in was 15.8 spots, and on the weekend, 18.3 spots. And I apologize that includes the employees and the office space. I don't have the specific patron number there, and the current relief, based on the use as a commercial office space, is 13.5 spots, and the 400, 1 spot for 400 square feet on the second floor, it's one spot for for 200 square feet on the first floor, and so it's 1,800 square feet on the top and 1,800 on The bottom. That's how it got to the current early calculation. Thomas White: Okay? And then you indicated that there was another provision in the bylaw that's within 20% Kirstyn Lipson: yes, 506.2 and that's in change of ownership for a change of use that necessitates more than the 20% change in the current relief for use. And so the current release being 13.5, 20% would be 16.2. so the weekday increase of expected 15.8 is within that 20% and the weekend of 18.3 is just two spots above the 16.2 so also, another note, I'm fully in favor of Margery's suggestion of the two hour parking in front. some of the employees that park there all day their businesses do have on site parking. so that could potentially help create more more short term parking options. I
Thomas White: other questions from the board, Hunter Perry: yes, so on the second floor, for the plan for the second floor, can you tell us a little bit more about kind of the plan for how many seats will be up there at a given time? Probably different during the week than on the weekend,
Kirstyn Lipson: yes, and on plan, we include kind of the, again, fire code, the theoretical set backs. But I'll give you a little little overview based on the actual layout. So there'll be that private dining room there that I mentioned that'll be available for small, small, intimate events. And then there'll be a couple, mix of two, two and four top tables, as well as a couch, more lounge seating areas. During the day that will not be table service, it'll be counter service. And then during the the evening, weekend dinner hours, it'll just be regular dinner service. So I believe on the plan right now it's set at 45 but again, with the expected, it would be probably even to downstairs, since it is half half the floor and downstairs about. About a quarter of the space will be support kitchen, so it'll be about equally dispersed.
Hunter Perry: Great, thanks. Adam Hirsh: So potentially you could have another 50 people up there ish, Kirstyn Lipson: oh no, that the total capacity is included that will. That will, that will, largely, we anticipate, be used for events, and again, by events, small scale, their parties.
Thomas White: Other questions.
Adam Hirsh: The patio area. I know you're not seeking relief on it now, but how, what is your dimensions on that? Just out of curiosity, how close are you coming to the boundary lines and stuff? Just Nathan Maltinsky: so we can look on page 12, there's some dimensions. I think it looks at them. Momentum Unknown: studies, page 12 of which Friday Kirstyn Lipson: and that rear lot line is the pediatrician parking lot and I checked with the Department of Conservation, and it does not trigger any kind of storm water concerns this proposed size I
Adam Hirsh: does that impact set backs and stuff like that? Thomas White: I don't believe a patio does is, I think it doesn't pass it down that backs or anything. It's going to be exempt. Unknown: I believe it is Adam Hirsh: one I'd rather ask and on patio, just from your protection wise, Kirstyn Lipson: thank you for explicitly asking.
Jeffery Ugino: I could share the plan on the screen, if it would help the audience for The chair? Thomas White: Sure.
Jeffery Ugino: Thanks, Mr. Chair, oops, there you go, and Thomas White: that's completely that patio is going to be flush with the grave, right? Yes,
Kirstyn Lipson: and to orient everyone looking at the screen, to the right is the road, I'm sorry, left is the road to the right is that old back abutter is the pediatrician's parking lot, and then below the screen is the residential abtter, and behind is the Silk Veterinary.
Thomas White: I have a question, and I don't know if it's going to be applicants, the applicants attorney or for the building Commissioner. So I I've read through the what I think is the applicable by law here, which is the restaurant use special permit, but looking at the question about parking relief, sort of I'm struck by exactly what provision of the bylaw this board would have to act specifically on that. And this kind of goes to a question that the applicant raised, and a question that Mr. Hirsh raised as well. And I should preface this by saying this is an incredibly exciting application. And I think, you know, I think you can see, based on, you know, the feedback that you can receive from the town neighbors, everyone is looking for a way to move this forward. I do see some. On potential sticky legal issues that I think we have to sort through just to be sure that if this board grants you a permit, there are no sort of legal impediments to sort of us acting this way. Because the question of parking relief is very, very tricky on this one, because the restaurant use special permit doesn't really specifically talk about that talks about vehicle access. It doesn't necessarily talk about the constraints of parking, and typically the parking requirements are really triggered by new construction. So I realized that was kind of along with the general question, but maybe starting with, I don't know if your attorney has looked at this and has any any, any thoughts on that, you can start there, and then we can, we can see if the commissioner has any comments. Kirstyn Lipson: Jeff, perhaps the special use threshold that we were talking about. Unknown: Yes, Mr. Chair again, Jeff Ugino of Gelerman Cabral, on behalf of the applicant, I would ask the Board to consider zoning by law section 4401, dash , dot 1.2, which allows pre existing, non conforming building structures or uses which this is may be changed, extended or altered by special permit pursuant to section 198 dash, 201, just continue on, provided no such changes extension alteration shall be permitted unless there's a finding that such change extension alteration shall not be substantially more detrimental than existing, non conforming building structure or use to the neighborhood. And I'd say that that, I would ask that the board consider that this is the applicable section in the bylaw, that this is a, you know, a traditional Zoning Act, a Section six, finding of of of a change in use. That's it's not substantially more detrimental. Of course, that's a that's a double negative. I asked the board to consider this is a use which would be a positive, and a and a net plus to the neighborhood based on that standard.
Thomas White: Very interesting. I appreciate that. I would not have suspected that is an avenue, but I'm intrigued by that as an option. Thank you. You up next Chair, yeah, I wonder if the building commissioner has any thoughts on this. Nathan Maltinsky: A tangled web we weave here. Thomas White: It's very complicated. Unknown: It is because on 4112, it does say that a single or two family dwelling may be changed, extended. It does not say a business use, but in the beginning of the chapter does say non conforming building structures or uses, maybe change, extended or altered by a special permit by the ZBA. So yes, it is in there. But then we circle back to so it's in the purview of the of the board to make a decision on this, but our biggest fall back right now is the parking, which it clears that we don't have enough of, yeah, some, some sort of potential agreement to maybe possibly utilize the Depot parking as an offset may be viable, per our town manager's indication, but so Thomas White: you can see, so you think, but, but to kind of pick this apart, specifically, you're in agreement that 401. 1.2 provides the board with the discretion to consider waiving the parking requirement. I've read the bylaw. I know there's nothing in the bylaw that gives us a roadmap for this particular case. So we've already gone there. So I'm looking for, I'm looking again, with the idea that for this board to take action, I just want to be sure we have a solid legal footing for any of the decisions we have, because this is a perplexing one, because I think it's a fantastic use for that building. I just wonder if our bylaw has a particular provision that ensures, like a positive decision can be rendered in this case, Jeffery Ugino: if I could, if I could, Mr. Chair, just one more comment. I. You know, I would, I would agree that, you know, parking relief is certainly needed. I would just ask the Board to consider that that right now, the current use is not, is not in compliance in terms of parking. So it's currently non conforming as to parking, and will remain non conforming as to parking. And the question becomes, will a proposed use be more substantially detrimental than the existing use? So I just, I think this could be, it could be an avenue for the board.
Thomas White: I would agree. And that's why I was kind of, I was in essence asking that question about the parking relief itself. Because if, if you do look specifically at the leading sentence of 401, point 1.2 I, I somewhat agree with the applicants council that this could be very straightforward. The existing building doesn't comply. This changes it. We could, we could determine that this changes it minimally. Hunter Perry: The parking is more of a business decision than it is. Thomas White: I would agree. I mean, in I think in some cases, we could consider parking. I mean, the by law gives us the ability to sort of constrain parking. But, you know, parking requirements are part of a business decision on behalf of the applicant. I mean, would would she be as interested in this building if it had a parking lot behind it? I mean, it doesn't, and the applicants interested in this as an option, and so the relief that we could grant doesn't solve the potential fact that maybe she will have more customers than she has parking spaces for which could be a problem for the business, but not necessarily a problem for the town. So I'm looking at, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the options for parking relief and whether they actually have a substantially negative impact on, through the standard we have, right noise, vibration, smoke, other objectionable features. I suppose people could raise an objection to additional traffic, but, I mean, there's a lot of traffic at that intersection, I don't know. I don't know that this cafe is going to make traffic different than it necessarily is. So Kirstyn Lipson: can only hope.
Adam Hirsh: Yeah, the also, you have to consider the library lot itself, and that area is not very large to begin with, and you often see that lot being consumed up pretty quickly, especially by patrons on, you know, on the walkway and everything like that. So it's, it's tough, from, it is tough. I, I mean, I definitely see the, I think the value of, like, making those two hour parkings and being able to generate some extra, you know, income from, you know, for the town and stuff. But like, beyond that, like, I don't know how we're going to be able to grab spots from the library to be able to help a business. Thomas White: I don't think Adam Hirsh: I also can't. I also think that if people park there, so be it like you can't stop someone from parking over there. Thomas White: I also don't think the ZBA has the authority to require that DPW to change the signs, however good an idea that may be, yeah, we could. We could. Adam Hirsh: We don't have that. I mean, this is good, Thomas White: yeah, no, it's a great idea. I actually don't, don't know that we could even do that. We have, we might not have the authority to do that. We could suggest. Adam Hirsh: We can suggest, yeah, Thomas White: sorry, you had a you had a comment, yeah, David Lipson: okay with me. Two other points that I'd be saying, Adam Hirsh: Hold on. Please come up and David Lipson: uh? David Lipson 10 Millbrook Road, married to the applicant, obviously very supportive of the project. Just two additional points I thought might be salient to the conversation here. One is the increased expected occupancy in the restaurant occurs on the weekend when part utilization, utilization of the existing parking from employees of businesses that are moving Monday to Friday, so that that higher occupancy becoming at a time when there's naturally less less demand, less strain on the existing Parking that's there. And a second point is, I think there's a expectation that a lot of the community need that the cafe is serving would also be serving the residential areas in and around town center, which can access the property by protected sidewalk. So. So considering the amount of foot and bike traffic, both from the rail trail, from employees at the existing businesses and from patrons walking over from residential areas in town center, I think those could all be considerations in terms of understanding and appreciating what the patronage of the business might actually mean in terms of demand and strain on the existing parking and might impact the considerations for relief. Thank you. Unknown: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I can I think that if, I mean, if we're okay with there, with people parking and like in residential areas, I think when I go out to eat, I'm okay with walking a little bit, and there are a decent amount of spaces to park along that area, if people are willing to walk just a little bit, there are residential streets over there, and there are a good amount of parking lots in that area, if you walk just a little bit that could be shared, especially at night, I think good point. The Town building is only a few minutes away.
Thomas White: Yeah, sorry, reminder, when I, when I lived in the, when I lived in the south end of Boston, I I, I would have to park by 20 minutes from my apartment. I'm comfortable with that. Hunter Perry: I guess one, one point about the library parking lot. You know, it's currently not being policed, for people that are walking on the Rail Trail or, you know, going to other places, why is it fair to not police those people? But, you know, to think that it's going to be an issue for this cafe that's going to that has absolute outcry of support, I just don't necessarily think that that's, you know, to turn to ultimately push away something that has this much over, over an issue like that, Thomas White: I would agree, I think that we heard from the Town Manager that there may be a legal issue tied to permission about using the library parking lot. What could it? Could raise an issue? Because I don't, Adam Hirsh: maybe the Mr. McCall team, yeah, Thomas White: if I did, I hear that, did I hear that concern correctly? Unknown: So I think the problem would lie in dedicated use, and we couldn't give it to dedicate spots to any one particular business without some type of formal agreement and indemnification language. And the other problem is whether or not this would be characterized as a general municipal parking lot. I mean, many of you know just the town building. People come in for the sports field. People are parking there. They come in for the EV chargers. I think it's understood that a lot of people can utilize that parking lot for a multitude of things. During my conversation with the library trustees recently, when it came up about the Tom meeting article and some of the prior votes of the trustees over time about the exclusive use of the library, the question came up whether or not they could post signage that that lot is for library patrons only during library hours, and that standard language, such as, you know, all others, may be removed at the owners expense. Could those type of signs be erected there? And I have forward that to counsel, and it looks like that could be possible. So while it may not have been police previously, it may this conversation may have opened it up to do we have to enforce that going forward if there is no parking for library employees and library patrons during library hours? So that that question was brought to me, so I'm still working on those answers. Hunter Perry: Does that go for the Depot as well? The same issue. Unknown: I looked today trying to find additional information. I didn't. We took the library lot by a taking, from I want to say the Boston and Maine railroad. And I understand there's some dedicated lease parking that may go to the Depot, but I think it's different where there was a town meeting vote to acquire the the additional land for parking across the street, and the plan of land says the intended library parking lot and the language was to be intended for library parking. so I think there's, there's a difference between those spaces. I don't have all the complete legal authority, but in history on it, but I think they are different. Different that the depot spaces there are not for any dedicated use except for those leased spaces to the depot, whereas the library lot, it was the intention of Town meeting to acquire it for the Library.
Hunter Perry: Thank you. Unknown: Just to reiterate, we are not seeking dedicated spot, and additionally that that lot beyond the freight house that is currently not used, but perhaps intended for the library parking is I live right at the road, and I hardly ever see a car and there so that could potentially offer some some relief for the the library's use that is not currently being utilized.
Adam Hirsh: I think, for me, the why I, while I do think the the usage is absolutely fantastic, I still am not sure whether or not we can put a business in a default type of lot, and I don't, I'm still up in the air about it, and whether or not, you know something like that could even be used and kind of based off of what Mr. McCall was saying. So Well, I do think the the idea, the premise of what you're trying to do, is fantastic. So, and there's obviously very high support and very high want, and I, you know, I think the amount of foot traffic you're going to get, and the amount of bicycles and everything is going to be off the chart, and it's going to be great. I just, I still see an issue with dedicating spots like that are not dedicated but allowing. I mean, you're here's the thing is that if someone were to park over there, there's nothing that's going to prevent them from parking over there and coming over at their own risk, right? So, you know, I don't know. It just, I don't know if we can make that a part of this piece. Unknown: Could I just interject, Mr. Chair? It one of my concerns. What Mr. Hirsh alluded to, if we were to do, say, include this as part of the parking relief for this particular business, if somebody else on this, that same area then said, well, they wanted to come back before the ZBA for some alteration or new business, and we've set this precedent now. Do we have to allow them to include and and then what point do you have saturation there that that was just part of the conversation I had with the library and in my own concerns. And again, I'm not it's not about the proposal, really before you. It's the precedent that you set when you start just using as part of the relief, where, does it end down the road? Thomas White: I would agree with you 100% and you know, I've been, while we've been having this discussion, I've sort of gone through the three provisions of the bylaw. And I don't have a conclusion, but I see a I see a problem in in the way the bylaw language like we have an option to consider a straightforward relief under 401.1 in which case I think I would need advice from town council, but I think we would have the latitude to waive parking. right. I am concerned, however, that in in the parking bylaw, specifically 506 1.1, there's a provision that allows a under a site plan review, to sort of for for the site plan review, granting authority to discuss any or all of the party that seems to apply, that seems to give us the latitude to waive parking requirements. However, this project doesn't require site plan review, so I think that avenue was closed. I think under the change of use provisions for the restaurant proposal, I think it's extremely straightforward, and I think we could easily approve that in that language. Yeah, so I guess the thing that I'm I'm coming back to is, I, I, I still think we need some kind of legal vehicle to address the, ultimately, a waiver of the parking requirements. Michael McCall: So if I may, Mr. Chair again, where I'm still in the process of gathering information, you know, it may be prudent that you continue to matter and seek some additional opinion from town council relative to the questions that you and the other board members have. You know. Just so that gives you that footing, that way you're working in the best interest both of the town and the applicant. Thomas White: I would agree. I'm actually going to make that, we're going to make that. I would make that request of you, because I need to run requests to speak with town counsel thorugh. I absolutely would, because I think it's important. I think there is a legal path here. I think we just need a little bit of guidance to make sure one that we address the applicants concerns the the application fairly and positively, but also make sure that we're not we're not establishing a precedent. Because as interesting as this sounds like, if we conceivably say we could come up with a vehicle to waive their parking requirements here. You know, we have to imagine that there could conceivably be a precedent set, that there could be another use that comes in that would look for that really, if we would absolutely not be interested in waiving those parking requirements, because it's not necessarily a compelling use case. So there is a challenge. There is a challenge to this relief strictly under the 401 point 1.2 section of this of the special permit language. So I'm just, I'm mindful of both of those things so, but I think to continue this, not, not to get too bogged down. If we look at the the narrative and the requested relief, I think the applicant indicated that we're not really concerned with the rear setback requirement. We need a special permit for the restaurant use. The signage will be handled separately. The outdoor dining would be handled separately. It just, it just really turns on the two issues of the restaurant special permit and the off street parking requirements. And I'm satisfied that 1102, point 1.1 is extremely straightforward, and there would be no impediment to this board issuing, issuing that permit for the restaurant itself. I think the question about, the question about parking is, is an important one. I think it's an important one to the applicant. I don't think any of us want to know, you know, create an approval process and then, you know, basically not allow the applicant to succeed because there isn't enough parking. But I think the applicant study the neighborhood, knows what the parking limits are. Unknown: So I would also note that the all the other businesses in the area do have onsite permit. Thomas White: Yes, this one, this building, seems to be the only one Unknown: yes. So just in terms of precedent setting, you know, from the historical district, and no onsite parking. Adam Hirsh: So in my mind, there are kind of two avenues that you could potentially go down. First avenue, is we could potentially put to a vote and approval for the restaurant use without the parking part of it, in which you know, patrons will have to figure figure it out right. Or the other option is potentially doing a continuance, getting more understanding of potential expectations. And you know what, what is allowed and stuff, and then, you know, doing, doing that continuance. Thomas White: So, yeah, I have concerns about bifurcating the permit in two. I think it exposes the applicant in the town Adam Hirsh: I was saying, drop it, yeah, parking provision completely at that point. If it was to go through tonight, Thomas White: I don't think we do that. I think I would suggest we can. I would suggest we continue this, because I think that all out will allow me to seek some additional legal counsel to sort of confirm that we're on solid footing. Proceeding with a split. It's a slightly different form of relief. Under 401, point 1.2 and under 1111, or 2.1 point Adam Hirsh: one which is the avenue that I was actually recommending, yeah, but there is the other avenue, and I just want to make sure the applicant is aware. You could technically amend it to remove that part. Yeah. Thomas White: The other challenge, of course, is that we've only got four people tonight, so although we have a quorum, we have a year yes vote yes. Sorry about that, but Adam Hirsh: I just wanted to, I wanted to make sure everything was laid out. So that way interesting. Yeah. Thomas White: So I guess would you be, notwithstanding the fact that just obviously, a lot of people here, and not everyone is here has spoken, given that it's such a compelling proposal to pointed out the fact that our bylaw doesn't really contemplate a lot of things in this area. So you know, would you be amenable to continuing this to next month so we could come up with a hopefully a clean decision and a legally sound way of proceeding here, Unknown: Jeff, I might check with you to see if you have any. I know we do have a provision in the purchase and sale for an additional 30 day extension. Any other considerations that need to come to mind? Jeffery Ugino: I think it's a great idea to continue, as long as you're fine with a Kirsten, Unknown: yeah, yeah, Kirstyn Lipson: great. Then, yes, I'm amenable Thomas White: Great. So Kirstyn Lipson: I guess my follow up question, is there anything that you need from me in preparation for that, or is it more Adam Hirsh: I think its plainly on us Thomas White: And I think, unfortunately, it's mainly on us and meaning me. So there'd be a lawyer can help me there? All right, yeah, as I said, I don't. I don't have any other questions on the restaurant use and the change of use of this for restaurant that's extremely straightforward. And as I said, I'm comfortable that the outdoor seating panel as a separate application and signage handled separately is also very straightforward. We've dealt with that on numerous restaurant projects before, where the signage is done as a separate application. So that's easy. That's easy to do, I guess before we ask you to sign a continuance, given that there's a number of people here, are there any other people here that had anything that they, you know, concern or comment that they wanted to make about this?
Hunter Perry: I guess one other piece on how she may be able to help. If there's any creative ideas that you have for the parking piece, any conversations that you can have with you know, library and depot prior to that meeting that would only be helpful. Kirstyn Lipson: I did share with with Mr. McCall on the depot specifically, because I think that seems like the more open one, changing from it's currently single, pull in and parallel, perpendicular, parked on one side. But based on the footprint of the lot, you could change it to pull in and angled on both sides, and that would add about eight spots. Gretchen Schuler: It used to be that like it was. Hunter Perry: There you go. And for what it's worth, it seems like there's enough excitement to pursue something like that. Yeah. Thomas White: And the only thing I'm the only thing I would ask is, is there any I'm trying to think about the calculation we did to determine the parking required for the 45 seats an hour and the 55 seats an hour, is there any? Is there anything in the methodology of that calculation that would allow you to always keep this within 20%
Kirstyn Lipson: I could we talked about being open to doing like a max capacity. We would be amenable to that. David Lipson: And I think what, or what it's worth to the layout that we put forward, we just want to be consistent when we went to DPW for the Wastewater, so we wanted to show it at its absolute building max capacity. So it's not necessarily that what you guys saw is not necessarily the layout it's going to be it was just, we just want to show, based on the square footage, the max capacity. Thomas White: So I would agree. I think that's extremely important. I think as you talked about fire as well, typically there's like multiple classifications of the occupancy. There's like the the egress capacity, the fire capacity, wastewater capacity, parking capacity, and an actual usage of the number of people that you can reasonably fit in the building. Kirstyn Lipson: So, and we have aired on the conservative side with DPW. So the Thomas White: Yeah, no, but I'm saying I also, I think it's appropriate that you have different numbers. I don't think the number you give to the DPW has to be the same as the number you give for parking, nor is it the number you use on your egos calculations. I think they're all supposed to be different. That's totally acceptable. So was that, I guess the only thing other item was, do we have a continuance form that the applicant can sign? Unknown: She wouldn't need to for a special permit. Let's just continue. Thomas White: Alright, perfect. Alright. So do we have to pick a do we have to vote on a continuance for a date and time certain, I believe we do. Yes, yeah, to Adam Hirsh: we want make sure that she actually agrees with it. Thomas White: Yeah, we have an official, officially done it yet. Yeah, ask her, and then yes. So you, you right? So great. All right, so let me just check the calendar again, October 14, yeah, um, so I'd make a motion that we continue application. 2525 2525 to was the date again, October or 14. October 14, at, I guess, seven, 7:10pm, Adam Hirsh: second, Thomas White: second, alright, by roll call. Ms. Paul Justine Paul: aye Thomas White: Perry Hunter Perry: aye Thomas White: Hirsh Adam Hirsh: aye Thomas White: White aye alright. So we are officially extended to next month, and then hopefully we will be able to have some positive news for you. And then obviously, in the interim, you have any additional information on sort of the metrics for that hourly parking calculation that you could email, that would be great. I think there's some opportunity there, because that is a that is not necessarily a prescribed calculation in the bylaw. So I think there's some opportunity to understand how that gets determined. So thank you for the application, and I'm excited about what the opportunities it disposes. I think we heard from a lot of people that there's, there's an enormous amount of enthusiasm for this. See if we can find a way here. Unknown: Thank you for your consideration, collaboration. Thank you, pleasure. Thank Hunter Perry: you. Thank you. Alright.
Thomas White: We have any updates from the building Commissioner.
Nathan Maltinsky: Has everyone looked at the annual report prepared by ZBA? Thomas White: I know that I have because Anita did a wonderful job writing it. any other comments.
Nathan Maltinsky: No, not really this status quo. Yep, nothing, nothing. Really new report on it
Thomas White: any board comments or concerns? Alright, anyone
have a motion move to adjourn second? Alright, Miss Paul, hi, Mr. Perry. Hi, white, aye. All right, we're adjourned. Thank you.
Justine Paul: i Can I comment on one quick thing for the minutes, the minutes state that I was on Zoom and arrived at 720 And I was in person and I was on time. Thomas White: Oh, okay.
Justine Paul: I think that was the July meeting that those bands were correct. Thomas White: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, it's that's what's bad. Looked at July 8, 2025 are the ones that appear to be on the Share points Justine Paul: I saw the Oh, so that's maybe, that was, maybe that's Thomas White: probably is. I think that's why. Okay, the meeting, yeah, the meeting notes we have here are from July 8, Adam Hirsh: so not August, Thomas White: no, so it looks like the draft minutes for August. August 12, they're not here. Adam Hirsh: Okay, so I've checked, I've I've reviewed July,
Thomas White: yeah, so then, so Justine, your, your, your comment is for the July notes, or your comment was for August, but you misread these as July.
Justine Paul: So my comment was for August, but I thought that that was what August had said. And now I need to go back, because I thought that that was what it said for August Thomas White: as well. Yeah, I'm not seeing a copy of the August meeting notes on the Share file.
Justine Paul: just misread. Miss opened up the wrong one. Then hold on, Unknown: August Justine Paul: minutes. Hold on, what Minutes did I read? Is okay, Thomas White: all right, Justine Paul: hite Thomas White: the August one. I've got the August ones here. Now is everyone so you, you had read the August ones, so, but in your comment was still stands. Hunter Perry: that my comment still stands that I was on Zoom,
wait, yeah, yes, Thomas White: sorry. All right. So, um, I guess we're going to have to modify these minutes to reflect the fact that Mr. Perry was attending via zoom, not in person.
Do you have the same comment? Ms Paul
Justine Paul: for August. Yes, I was in person for August.
Thomas White: Okay, Adam Hirsh: no i still. Thomas White: What else All right, so it looks like we're it looks like we're editing these right now live, so. Nathan Maltinsky: I understand. I understand.
Adam Hirsh: I don't need to vote on eight minutes this August. Thomas White: No, you weren't. It's your, yeah. You weren't here hirsh: July. Yes, Thomas White: yep. All right, just breezing through these right now. So if we just, if we just correct that Justine Paul was in person, not by zoom,
Adam Hirsh: and that she was not there, Thomas White: and she was on time very Important subject. This is the 7pm hearing. This is the zba case 25 minutes as amended during the hearing on September 9 dash 24 this is the 40 D classification of amendment. This is the application of the Wayland Municipal Affordable Housing Trust for amendments the original 40 D special permit. This is case number 21 dash 29 which was for 40 B special permit request for 12 Hammond road parcel ID 51B-034. This Before we get started on this, I had a meeting with the building request is for an amendment involving a change to the Commissioner, myself and town counsel, and we discussed this. We don't need to vote on this. This is literally this can be a discussion on the board, if we are in agreement that the well, a discussion about whether the change to the footprint would be considered insubstantial. We reviewed, on the call, the kind of criteria that we would look through to make that determination. And it was noted that what's happening with this particular project is the footprint of the houses changing slightly from a very rectangular shape to a slightly more square shape. The setback, as a result, does change, but it's still greater than the setback allowed in this district. So I think it's very clear that that would be indicative of substantial footprints of the proposed home. change. There's no chamy. It's a single family structure. It's the massing of it has slightly been modified, but the program hasn't changed. The interior configuration has minimally changed, but that room count, the components that make up the bulk of the project are exactly the same as they were. It's literally just a kind of a slight modification to the footprint. So I don't know how to respond. I think it would be considered insubstantial, yeah. So according to town counsel, this is not something that we need to vote on. This is more or less a discussion, and town counsel would be happy to to draft an amendment to the decision. And we also have some cleaned up copies that were given to us tonight that explain the two different versions of the you know, the one that we approved and the new version that we have. So what, what does the board think? Adam Hirsh: I don't have any problems I, data is this is definitely something extremely minor, and in some cases, actually makes it more compliance of. I'm fine. I'm fine with that. Hunter Perry: I didn't see any floor plans. And do you see the floor plans or not? Thomas White: They didn't. They didn't submit a set of floor plans, but, but we were assured that it's, it's a, the proposed three bedroom dwelling is still the proposed three bedroom dwellings. And if you look at the if you look at the footprint, the change would be very minimal inside, Nathan Maltinsky: if I may chair. The only thing that changed was the setbacks on the left side, from 24 feet one inch to 15 feet, three inch. So still is in the 15 foot setback. And this is full. To be yourselves, permitted anyway, but that's the biggest change.
Thomas White: Any other discussion,
Hunter Perry: pretty straightforward. Thomas White: So I think, I think the board is in agreement that we could consider this an insubstantial change, and we can direct town counsel to Adam Hirsh: trust agreement Justine Paul: And I think that I was in agreement previously as well, so I Hunter Perry: I didn't have an explanation, really, do you like that? And all I really had was the original, like copy of the plans. Thomas White: And it was very it was a little, it was presented in a way. It was a little bit confusing for the board to understand. Unknown: This seems pretty straightforward. Thomas White: I think it's straightforward, alright, so, so I'll, I'll connect back with Town Counsel, and I'll direct them to make an amendment, or, I guess it's process, a request for the amendment to the change that footprint house, Adam Hirsh: great. Thank you. Nathan Maltinsky: Thank you. Thomas White: All right, so, all right, it's 717 so we can move on to the 710 hearing. This is a discussion and review of compliant with a special permit, 22 dash, 21 for the school bus parking at the 41 Cochituate road. This is a special permit granted in August 2022 for the continued parking, temporary parking of up to 16 school busses at the rear lot, 4124 road. The permit is valid through August, 31 31st 2027, and includes conditions prohibiting fueling or fluid top offs on the site and requiring the installation of physical barriers to protect against vegetated areas. So do we have is someone making a presentation to us this evening for this Nathan Maltinsky: I thought my Mike Faia was gonna be,
Michael Faia: yeah, I'm on guys. I'm on the phone. I Thomas White: Oh, perfect. All right. So good evening. Good evening. Mike, do you want to it's a little informal, right? I mean, this is really a check in. And, you know, we had requested a checking period after a few years to assess how the special permit was going. So we were looking for you to give us an update on the status of this, and the board has received some other communication from, I think, from a conservation commission that we can go through separately. But okay, yeah, if you could give us an overview, that'd be great. Unknown: Yes, from what I know, this was done long before I started, but as it stands right now, everything has been going fine there. There isn't any fueling going on. We were asked to do some protective measures along the border of the parking lot where it meets the conservation land and the children's play area, and we were asked to rework some of the signage so that it explained the parking a little better, and we added a crosswalk off the main crosswalk, so that it was there's some accessible, people could could use the accessible ramp a little bit easier from the parking lot. Other than that, I don't have much more to report.
Thomas White: Okay, I guess I ask you probably have not seen the email from the Conservation Commission that was sent to zoning board. Michael Faia: I probably I have not no
Thomas White: so well, let me. Let me read. Let me read this email that the zoning board received today, September 9. This is from Linda Hansen, conservation, Conservation Director for Wayland, yes, so that to the board, she writes, in compliance with the ZBA permit and conservation, the conservation order of conditions, the bus parking was historically not allowed in the rear parking area. It was my understanding that the ZBA allowed busses, bus parking in this parking as a temporary solution. If that is true, I believe that that is what was discussed. She goes on to say that the parking spaces in the front of the building were striped without permission from the ZBA and are not legal. I'm not sure, but. Is referring to, but we can discuss that. she indicated, indicates that that's unsafe for drivers exiting their cars in the travel lane. Also, it has concerns about the number of cars entering the parking lot and cutting through to Pelham Island Road, noting that there are no sidewalks or pedestrian crossings. She also notes that the proximity of the riverfront doesn't allow anyone to construct sidewalks or pedestrian crossings, um, the busses, she says, In addition, the bustles, busses are not allowed to idle in the back parking lot or be maintained, but both of those activities happen on frequent basis. The land directly behind the busses is a priority habitat for Rare and Threatened species. And if these conditions for the permit cannot be followed, the busses need to move. So this is, this is a little difficult because that's, you know, we did agree to a temporary special permit. You know, that is valid only through August 2027 but as part of that permit, we did ask for a check in to sort of understand the status of what was happening. I'm concerned because I think we're going to need to do some investigation, because the assertions from this email contradict what we just heard, and I think contradict the permit that we approved. So I don't know that we're going to be able to get to an answer to this tonight. I was a little surprised at the email, but I think this is potentially a problem.
Adam Hirsh: would it be value add for them to to get together, Thomas White: and yeah, I think it would be important. I don't think we can. We can't. We can't take any action on on this tonight. I'm not planning on that. But I think at a minimum, we need to have, I think we need to facilitate some communication between Mr. Faia and Hansen so we can understand the difference of interpret. Interpretation, or the concerns about the execution of the special permit.
Hunter Perry: I guess looking at the conditions of the special permit, I'm trying to kind of cross examine what is not being adhered to.
Adam Hirsh: There sounds like idling is what it sounded like, and Michael Faia: which is kind of confusing, because you have diesel busses that need to start and run. I don't know how I, once again, wasn't here for the original. So I you know, other than it's, it's, it's, it's something that a diesel engine has to do. It's not idling, it's just warming up, which you could Adam Hirsh: Why don't we give them the opportunity to have a conversation and then have them come back next month to give an update based off of conversations, and is that something that you can be amenable to? Thomas White: Is that? I think, I think that makes sense. I Adam Hirsh: I don't think you're going to be able to get any think I
answers this evening without having any conversations or having them do follow up before you know? Thomas White: No, I think yes, Adam Hirsh: something more concrete. Thomas White: I think Mr. Perry makes a good point. If you listen to the 10, if you read the 10 conditions we've outlined, they don't. re they don't mention anything that is contained in the conservation email from the Conservation Director. So it may be, it may be a situation where those things may be occurring, and they may, they may be problematic, but they aren't necessarily things we conditioned in line items one through 10 in the special permit that we granted. You know, permit number 22 dash 21 but in the interest of kind of moving things forward, I think at a minimum, we need to see if we can have some internal coordination between the Conservation Commission and and Mr. Faia, at least, to understand in the context of the decision and the request that we have to review this, you know, how do we, how do we, kind of, I guess, bridge these concerns. Nathan Maltinsky: I do have some information. I was on peripheral when this whole thing went down, so I will hold comment until I speak to both parties and okay, and then we can discuss all this next month. Michael Faia: It would be helpful if I could see the email from Linda. That would be, Thomas White: yeah, we just got it today, so we can absolutely forward that to you Michael Faia: all right, that'd be helpful so I know what, so I know what I'm addressing. Thomas White: I. Uh, understandable, Michael Faia: perfect. Thomas White: All right, Adam Hirsh: do we have to do a specific time for next month? I Thomas White: don't think so, because this is not, this isn't to hear this is a we're not, it's not an application for new permit. This is just a check in discussion. So I think we can just have a meeting. Well, we do. So I think we should agree that we'll sort of continue again. We don't have to vote on this. This is just a note that we want to add this to the to the next zoning meeting, which is Hang on. So we want to add this to the agenda for October 14 or the 10th. All right, so it being 726 we can move on to the 720 hearing. This is uh, page number 25 dash 23 for 10 chestnut roads. This is the application of Joseph Dorr, the owner of the property at 10 Chestnut Road, parcel ID 46b, 044, located in the R 20 zoning district. The applicant is seeking a variant special permit or other zoning relief as necessary to address adjust previously approved architectural plans from decision 24 dash 35 the proposed changes include repositioning Joe Dorr: right here. I'm Joe. the building and adding a stoop to the rear of the house. Do we Thomas White: Come up and introduce yourself and give us have anyone here to present that?
an overview of what you're looking to do. Unknown: I'm Joe Dorr and well, the septic system that was designed for the original plan was installed some time ago and hooked up to the old house, and with a current survey, is a problem with the set, the set, side set to the septic system. So we're asking to amend the variance to let us shift the house a little bit. And you know, really, there was always going to be a bulk head in the back and some sort of landing, and this wasn't drawn on the original footprint. Thomas White: So I'm just looking back at the original design. So the original special permit was to demolish an existing house right attached garage and construct a new two bedroom home with a one car garage. Yep, you're still doing the exact same, Joe Dorr: same Yep, same footprint. Just needs to shift a little bit. It's a small lot, and the septic system has encroached on the set back of the building. It was really Unknown: just got one foot. Yeah. Thomas White: Oh, that is the only change, right? The pretty much nine foot two goes to eight foot nine and eight foot five goes to seven foot five, Joe Dorr: correct.
Thomas White: And it was a bulkhead on the back that was not on the original one Unknown: There was a door opening there in the footprint, but they didn't draw the bulkhead Nathan Maltinsky: bulkheads are exempt from zoning. Thomas White: Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah. Um, all right, before we ask any questions, is there anyone else here tonight to talk about this case? Anyone online? Robbie Bullard: I'm seeing no online. Thomas White: Okay. I think this is completely reasonable. In my mind. I think the difference, the difference in one foot, I don't think is, is consequential. And I'm moving back through the previous decision. It it doesn't appear that we had any neighbors, uh, that expressed concerns at that time for the project. Yeah, any concerns further?
Unknown: You actually had a neighbor in favor that. for the project,
Joe Dorr: I think all the neighbors would still be in favor.
Thomas White: Any other questions from the board? I guess I have a question for the commissioner. Would we amend this permit, or do we need to create an entirely new decision? Nathan Maltinsky: I think we can amend this permit just because of the change in the footprint and just amend it for the setback on this site, okay? Because it'll be cleaner than I think, writing a new decision to make an amendment in the eight foot five to the 75 and the eight nine to the nine to nine of eight. Nine, yes, all right, very sorry.
Thomas White: I guess I would make a motion that the zoning board approves an amendment to decision 24 dash 35 that makes a slight modification to the footprint originally proposed, and reduces the east side yard setback from the approved nine foot two inches to eight foot Nine inches from the originally approved two foot five to the new dimension of seven foot five. Second, Adam Hirsh: Second.
Thomas White: Discussion.
I haven't named a panel. The panel is going to be the four of us, which does mean that this does need to be a unanimous decision. The panel is Justine Paul, Hunter Perry, Adam Hirsch and myself, Thomas White,
so all this to do a roll call vote. Ms Paul Justine Paul: aye. Thomas White: Mr. Mr. Perry Hunter Perry: aye, Thomas White: Mr. Hirsh Adam Hirsh: aye, Thomas White: Mr. White aye. So we've approved the amendment permit. So Anina, I can work with you on how to address this, because we're going to want to use this document, so we'll have to get a copy of this. Thank Mr. Perry, you wrote this so you might have the original document. You just we just need to probably send that to Anina. Unknown: So great. I have a question, sure, are we going to have to refile this for the Registry of Deeds? For this change, Thomas White: I think the amended permit would have to be filed with the Registry of Deeds. Joe Dorr: Okay, answered the question, Thomas White: yeah. I think that would be the appropriate thing to do. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming in. Good luck with this. Joe Dorr: Thank you, good night Thomas White: All right, so it is 734 so we can move on to the Kirstyn Lipson: Hi, good evening. My name is Kirstyn 730 hearing. This is a ZBA case. 25 dash, 2521 sorry, 25 dash, 25 for 21 Cochituate road. This is the application of the Millbrook Group LLC, Kirstyn Lipson, for property located at 21 Cochituate Road, parcel ID 23 dash 47 and Wayland MA in the business A zoning district. The applicant is seeking a restaurant. Each special permit property to convert to Cafe and Bistro, including outdoor patio seating. The structure is considered pre existing, non conforming structure as does not meet the setback requirements zoning by law. Additionally, the Lipson. Don't know if any address. I've seen other people property is located in the aquifer protection district and the National and Local Historic District. Additional zoning relief, such as variance variances or special permits may be required. So good evening. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what's what's being proposed here?
do it, Thomas White: but technically you're supposed to Unknown: Okay 10 Millbrook Road in Wayland, and I'm joined tonight by Alex. Oh, sorry. One side, Alex Sipes, he's with Avison and Young they're our project management firm as well. At Lake with Joe, the architect of our architecture firm, and then virtually Jeff Ugino, who is my lawyer, and I am the CEO and founder of the Millbrook group, and I'm coming to the committee tonight requesting a special use permit to operated cafe and Bistro at 21 Cochituate Road, also known as the Old Collins market building here in town, I'm in the process of purchasing the building from Senne Real Estate. It's currently zoned as a commercial, commercial property, but with my intent to turn it into a bistro and cafe, it'll need the special use. my intent is to call it Town House, which is really to honor the legacy of this building, which was the first public town hall, which we used to call town houses back in the 1800s. it will be really community and neighborhood focused. My goal is to preserve the legacy and the heritage and the historical nature of the building really breathe fresh new life and use into what is currently and somewhat neglected building, and certainly under under utilized in terms of kind of that, the tactics, tactical aspects It will operate from Tuesday to Friday, 7:30am to 3:30pm offering coffee, light, light bites of very grab and go kind of, kind of environment. Saturday and Sunday, it'll operate from eight to eight. We'll also be offering some afternoon tea as well as brunch and then in the evening kind of a wine bar, Bistro, type, type of atmosphere. There'll be a small dining room upstairs that will be library themed, also to honor the its role as the first public library back back in the day. And this area will serve as flex dining area for regular customers, or it can be rented out for intimate events such as bridal showers, as well as board meetings for local businesses, bridal showers, all of those kind of kind of opportunities. Kirstyn Lipson: the menu will offer really local, forward, sustainable, sustainable food, looking to partner with as many local farms and providers as possible. Again, really reinforcing that community aspect. If du plan to add a small patio in the back, it'll be modest, somewhere between eight to 10 seats. We'll have a natural screening to shield with the resident of abutter, who I've spoken with, and we've discussed the plans, and I've gained her support, and we will keep her apprised as we continue to move forward, especially given the hours only going to 8pm we don't expect noise or lights to be to be concerned there. I will say that as part of my application, I did request for setback relief. However, upon further examination by my legal team, we don't believe that this actually meets a structure definition, because it's just a patio. It's not covered, it's not attached to the property. So I would, I would request that we don't need relief on that element. One of the reasons that I really believe wholeheartedly in this project, and not only has it been a passion of mine that I've been looking to bring to life for the past two decades, actually, but this really fills a community lead. the Economic Development Committee did a survey over this last winter, and the number one most requested new business was a coffee shop. Wayland has no such offering, especially a local coffee shop offering artisan coffee. It's locally owned, owned and sourced that also offers opportunities for local business people to have meetings, social gatherings. Right now, they have to go to other neighboring towns, so this is an opportunity for Wayland to capture that business. 86% also requested more businesses next to the rail trail. This is within 300 feet of the rail trail, and 99% were concerned about empty storefronts, and this is definitely an underutilized historic building that has been a part of the town since 1841 so my intent is really to honor, honor this historic pillar of the community and bring it back to be a cornerstone that that can really serve, serve the area. My other relief request was on the parking situation, since this is a non conforming tlot can built in the 1840s before the car. it's, whenI first filed, and even when we spec with spoke with the town manager last week, we were using the full fire capacity, looking for the parking relief. in its current use as an office building, it is 13.5 spots. Is what it's relief. the brief relief it's been granted because there is no on site parking. There are six street parking spots right in front of it, and an additional six right around the corner on Pelham Island Road. However, the fire capacity is hardly, it's that's more of a theoretical capacity for this type of business. As I went through and looked at my projections hour by hour for the weekday and the weekend, the expected capacity is 45 patrons per hour during the week and 55 per hour during the weekend, and most of those will the average time is about 15 to 20 minutes stay. based on that, and including the the employee calculations, as well as the upstairs right hand side will continue to be leased by Sunne real estate for at least four to eight years. So including that consideration as well, that gets us to 15.8 spots during the week and 18.3 spots during the weekend. And according to the bylaw section five oh, 6.2 within 20% of the current use for parking, which, given the 13.5 spots, the weekday increase is within that 20% and the weekend is just over by two spots. So looking to request the release of those those two spots. So that is my spiel. I welcome any questions or comments
Unknown: or I'll type sorry Travis or Val thing that I missed that you want to add Nathan Maltinsky: up front support. Unknown: Yes, yes. Thank you that not only do only does this fulfill a need, a theoretical need, but there has been an outpouring of community support when I started mentioning it, just on the Wayland Facebook moms group, within 36 hours, I got over 50 letters, many of which I included in the application. I believe some have also been emailed directly to you. They include letters from the residential abutters, businesses nearby. One of them is also here tonight. And so I think that there is it really represents not only a theoretical community need, but an actual community need that I believe wholeheartedly, Town House that fulfill.
Thomas White: there's probably going to be some, I guess, questions from the board, but I guess before we go on is we need to hear if there's anyone else that wants to speak about this project. Here, you come up and introduce yourself. Kirstyn Lipson: Should I step aside? Thomas White: Yes, good, yes.
Win Treese: Thank you. My name is Win Treese, 11, Irwin Road and member of the Board of Library Trustees. I'm speaking tonight on behalf of the board at the trustees meeting on August 20, the board voted to authorize the chair and director to send you the letter of support that is you have in your packet. We are very excited about the project, as noted in the letter, the board unanimously supports creative use of the former Collins market. However, one of the options that has been discussed for parking relief is the library parking lot, and the library cannot provide any parking spaces for this use. The library is very limited parking as it is. a Town, a Town meeting gave the library board jurisdiction the full parcel at one Concord road containing the upper parking lot, including the unpaved built area behind the Freight House for expanded library parking that was under Article 32 of the 1986 town meeting, when Town meeting unanimously voted the land to be acquired from the MBTA its our understanding that another board cannot grant parking access, access to a lot under the authority of another board, even if done, however, any commitment to other uses would severely constrain the library's ability to plan for its future needs, and further complicated its abilities to provide adequate parking for the public coming to the library. Although the library cannot assist the outcome of parking, we think it would be reasonable to continue this matter the next zba meeting to explore other parking options if necessary. Thank you very much for your consideration. Thomas White: Okay, thank you. Anybody else ? so thank you for that. oh, sorry, I didn't see you. Unknown: That's alright. My name is Gretchen Schuler, 126 Old Connecticut Path, and I, although I serve on the Historic District Commission, I'm speaking myself. Uh, we've not had a meeting or had any discussion on the historic district commission. I think this is really exciting application. I've read through it, and there are lots of wonderful parts of it. I am concerned about the parking. and years ago, we had meeting of all of the boards that would I used to serve on the Plannng Board for really long time, and the Historic District Commission, the Historical Commission, and the Library and the Historical Society trying to figure out, what could we do? And I think it's going to take some action on the part of the town to the to get over this problem. Kirstyn Lipson: I mean, we've got the Depot, we've got the library area, which we've just talked about at that time, when we were talking about it was when the library was trying to decide, are they staying or they're going? And we kept talking about a two story structure in the parking lot of the parking of the library in order to accommodate parking. And I don't know if that's the the answer, but I think we have to think outside of the box for this. And you you're in a really tough position here to have to figure out how to accommodate parking and to allow them to go forward, but I'd hate to see it go down because of the parking, and I think we all need to get together and think about it. And the other part, I mean, because all the parking we're talking about is public parking. And the other thing, little, tiny thing that has come to my thoughts is that we have a really important property as a abutting this property as well. It's an 1820s Federal House, and the people have been there for a really long time. And so what will happen? I think the hours are great for them. But what about exhaust? And what about all of those, you know, the fans and all that kind of stuff, is that noisy? I don't know the answer to that. And I just think we want to make sure we think through those things and protect the properties around it. It's a residential property, if it were commercial, be another, another issue. But thank you. Thomas White: Thank you very much. Robbie Bullard: Michael McCall is online, sure, Michael, he's on. Thomas White: Okay, so you wanted to, do you have something to add Mr. McCall? Michael McCall: yes, good evening, Mr. Chair and members of the ZBA, I just wanted to follow up. I did meet with Miss Lipson the other week, and I did indicate I would follow up. She did follow up with me today, and I did send her an email. And similar to what the representative of the board of library trustees had indicated, I had followed up with the library trustees, our town counsel and through my staff, our insurer and I informed Miss Lipson that as the manager, that I could not endorse the the her request for relief. There was some issues that we felt with regard to setting a precedence of using these parking spaces, which are not a general municipal lot, as well as potential liability. It was recommended if we were going to entertain doing something like this, if, let's say the library trustees were inclined to do so, then I would need a lease agreement with indemnification language as well as appropriate insurance coverage. And in most cases, we would have to follow public procurement laws, and depending upon the value of the spaces, it may require a public bid process if we were going to do something like that. So first, the reasons that were stated by the library trustees, as well as some concerns we have about that intersection, pedestrian traffic that would be crossing to utilize the Bistro. We would not be in favor of allowing the use of those spaces. in your relief that you're looking at but notwithstanding that I really did enjoy the proposal, like other folks, I do think it's a well thought out business plan, but I just don't see how we could include town spaces for the parking relief as that it would open up the door to me having to offer that to other folks, and that would become problematic.
Thomas White: Okay Thank you. We have another, another question. If you could name, name and address with
Margery Baston: Margery Baston, 11 Cochituate Road right next to 21 Cochituate Road, I have. The same concerns about the parking. I love the idea, and lot of people are very enthusiastic about it, very well thought out. One of the small suggestions sounds to me that could help, maybe a teeny little bit if the town will be willing to do it. The town currently has four signs on Pelham Island Island road for two hour, parking back.
Okay, right now down the problem in front of the old Collins market is that you have people parking there all day, and your people parking in a depot, parking lot all day. It shouldn't happen. should it? so if the signs that you have on Pelham Island Road, the two hour parking were put on those six spaces in front of 21 Cochituate Road and used in the Depot Parking lot, I think you could bless the businesses there, including the Wayland Depot that wants to have people come and go and freely, you know, park for a short time, and it would, I hope, encourage employees or people who want to park there all day to find another place to park. Just a thought, Thomas White: thank you. Margery Baston: Oh, maybe I should sign Yes. Oops. Adam Hirsh: So we have the right to be able to do that. Unknown: There's a host of issues here. You will need some legal advice on but the short answer to that is, I don't. I have suspicions, but I'm not sure. Adam Hirsh: Yeah, suspicions. I
Thomas White: Any other public comment? it looks like so you want to go back up? Thomas White: okay, could you, I guess, give us a little more Kirstyn Lipson: Yes, that's okay. A couple additional points and clarifications. One, I know Mr. McCall when, when I spoke with him last week, that was when we were looking at the full fire capacity and using that for the parking relief. So just wanted to reiterate the reduced number looking at the expected actual capacity. Additionally, we expect a lot of the traffic to come from current rail trail users as well as municipal employees, the public and safety employees, other local businesses. So a lot of the traffic will be foot traffic, as well as bike traffic, or just already there, not net new traffic. We do plan on putting in bike racks to help accommodate the bike traffic. We've also met with Greg Dale from the Historic Commission, District, District commission, clarity on the parking space calculations and sort of looking and he has, we've talked about our plans about maintaining the historical nature. And you know, the really only front facing modification be making it ADA accessible with a ramp. And he's on board with that, so I'm definitely looking to collaborate closely with him. Also, I should say, given the extensive renovations required inside, we aren't looking to open until next June, so there is time to find a solution if we if we work collaboratively and creatively. And on the note about the pedestrian crosswalk, there is, for those who aren't familiar with that intersection, there is a not only crosswalk, but a light as well for the pedestrians. Yes, I think those were my my additional comments,
through
Kirstyn Lipson: Yes, okay, let me pull up my specific notes. They have it broken down by employees, patrons and the the real estate. Commercial, the office space for upstairs. Okay, so, correctly, okay, for we'll start with the the easy, the easiest part, the second floor office space will be 900 square feet per the code five 06.12 for office or professional space on the second floor, it's one spot per each 400 square feet of floor area. So 900 square feet divided by 400, 2.25 spaces for that quarter the building. Okay for the full time employee portion, the full time equivalent is seven FTEs, so no more than seven employees at any given time. And for that, it's for the code five0, 6.13 it's three, one space for every three employees. So that is 2.33 and then for the patrons, it is one spot for every four seats. And so initially, with our fire code capacity, it's 91 seats. However, as as I mentioned, looking at the expected capacity, it's 45 seats per hour. Again, many of those will be a quick turn during the week, and 55 per hour during the weekend. And so that that netted out to on the 40 the 45 it came to. Unknown: All in was 15.8 spots, and on the weekend, 18.3 spots. And I apologize that includes the employees and the office space. I don't have the specific patron number there, and the current relief, based on the use as a commercial office space, is 13.5 spots, and the 400, 1 spot for 400 square feet on the second floor, it's one spot for for 200 square feet on the first floor, and so it's 1,800 square feet on the top and 1,800 on The bottom. That's how it got to the current early calculation. Thomas White: Okay? And then you indicated that there was another provision in the bylaw that's within 20% Kirstyn Lipson: yes, 506.2 and that's in change of ownership for a change of use that necessitates more than the 20% change in the current relief for use. And so the current release being 13.5, 20% would be 16.2. so the weekday increase of expected 15.8 is within that 20% and the weekend of 18.3 is just two spots above the 16.2 so also, another note, I'm fully in favor of Margery's suggestion of the two hour parking in front. some of the employees that park there all day their businesses do have on site parking. so that could potentially help create more more short term parking options. I
Thomas White: other questions from the board, Hunter Perry: yes, so on the second floor, for the plan for the second floor, can you tell us a little bit more about kind of the plan for how many seats will be up there at a given time? Probably different during the week than on the weekend,
Kirstyn Lipson: yes, and on plan, we include kind of the, again, fire code, the theoretical set backs. But I'll give you a little little overview based on the actual layout. So there'll be that private dining room there that I mentioned that'll be available for small, small, intimate events. And then there'll be a couple, mix of two, two and four top tables, as well as a couch, more lounge seating areas. During the day that will not be table service, it'll be counter service. And then during the the evening, weekend dinner hours, it'll just be regular dinner service. So I believe on the plan right now it's set at 45 but again, with the expected, it would be probably even to downstairs, since it is half half the floor and downstairs about. About a quarter of the space will be support kitchen, so it'll be about equally dispersed.
Hunter Perry: Great, thanks. Adam Hirsh: So potentially you could have another 50 people up there ish, Kirstyn Lipson: oh no, that the total capacity is included that will. That will, that will, largely, we anticipate, be used for events, and again, by events, small scale, their parties.
Thomas White: Other questions.
Adam Hirsh: The patio area. I know you're not seeking relief on it now, but how, what is your dimensions on that? Just out of curiosity, how close are you coming to the boundary lines and stuff? Just Nathan Maltinsky: so we can look on page 12, there's some dimensions. I think it looks at them. Momentum Unknown: studies, page 12 of which Friday Kirstyn Lipson: and that rear lot line is the pediatrician parking lot and I checked with the Department of Conservation, and it does not trigger any kind of storm water concerns this proposed size I
Adam Hirsh: does that impact set backs and stuff like that? Thomas White: I don't believe a patio does is, I think it doesn't pass it down that backs or anything. It's going to be exempt. Unknown: I believe it is Adam Hirsh: one I'd rather ask and on patio, just from your protection wise, Kirstyn Lipson: thank you for explicitly asking.
Jeffery Ugino: I could share the plan on the screen, if it would help the audience for The chair? Thomas White: Sure.
Jeffery Ugino: Thanks, Mr. Chair, oops, there you go, and Thomas White: that's completely that patio is going to be flush with the grave, right? Yes,
Kirstyn Lipson: and to orient everyone looking at the screen, to the right is the road, I'm sorry, left is the road to the right is that old back abutter is the pediatrician's parking lot, and then below the screen is the residential abtter, and behind is the Silk Veterinary.
Thomas White: I have a question, and I don't know if it's going to be applicants, the applicants attorney or for the building Commissioner. So I I've read through the what I think is the applicable by law here, which is the restaurant use special permit, but looking at the question about parking relief, sort of I'm struck by exactly what provision of the bylaw this board would have to act specifically on that. And this kind of goes to a question that the applicant raised, and a question that Mr. Hirsh raised as well. And I should preface this by saying this is an incredibly exciting application. And I think, you know, I think you can see, based on, you know, the feedback that you can receive from the town neighbors, everyone is looking for a way to move this forward. I do see some. On potential sticky legal issues that I think we have to sort through just to be sure that if this board grants you a permit, there are no sort of legal impediments to sort of us acting this way. Because the question of parking relief is very, very tricky on this one, because the restaurant use special permit doesn't really specifically talk about that talks about vehicle access. It doesn't necessarily talk about the constraints of parking, and typically the parking requirements are really triggered by new construction. So I realized that was kind of along with the general question, but maybe starting with, I don't know if your attorney has looked at this and has any any, any thoughts on that, you can start there, and then we can, we can see if the commissioner has any comments. Kirstyn Lipson: Jeff, perhaps the special use threshold that we were talking about. Unknown: Yes, Mr. Chair again, Jeff Ugino of Gelerman Cabral, on behalf of the applicant, I would ask the Board to consider zoning by law section 4401, dash , dot 1.2, which allows pre existing, non conforming building structures or uses which this is may be changed, extended or altered by special permit pursuant to section 198 dash, 201, just continue on, provided no such changes extension alteration shall be permitted unless there's a finding that such change extension alteration shall not be substantially more detrimental than existing, non conforming building structure or use to the neighborhood. And I'd say that that, I would ask that the board consider that this is the applicable section in the bylaw, that this is a, you know, a traditional Zoning Act, a Section six, finding of of of a change in use. That's it's not substantially more detrimental. Of course, that's a that's a double negative. I asked the board to consider this is a use which would be a positive, and a and a net plus to the neighborhood based on that standard.
Thomas White: Very interesting. I appreciate that. I would not have suspected that is an avenue, but I'm intrigued by that as an option. Thank you. You up next Chair, yeah, I wonder if the building commissioner has any thoughts on this. Nathan Maltinsky: A tangled web we weave here. Thomas White: It's very complicated. Unknown: It is because on 4112, it does say that a single or two family dwelling may be changed, extended. It does not say a business use, but in the beginning of the chapter does say non conforming building structures or uses, maybe change, extended or altered by a special permit by the ZBA. So yes, it is in there. But then we circle back to so it's in the purview of the of the board to make a decision on this, but our biggest fall back right now is the parking, which it clears that we don't have enough of, yeah, some, some sort of potential agreement to maybe possibly utilize the Depot parking as an offset may be viable, per our town manager's indication, but so Thomas White: you can see, so you think, but, but to kind of pick this apart, specifically, you're in agreement that 401. 1.2 provides the board with the discretion to consider waiving the parking requirement. I've read the bylaw. I know there's nothing in the bylaw that gives us a roadmap for this particular case. So we've already gone there. So I'm looking for, I'm looking again, with the idea that for this board to take action, I just want to be sure we have a solid legal footing for any of the decisions we have, because this is a perplexing one, because I think it's a fantastic use for that building. I just wonder if our bylaw has a particular provision that ensures, like a positive decision can be rendered in this case, Jeffery Ugino: if I could, if I could, Mr. Chair, just one more comment. I. You know, I would, I would agree that, you know, parking relief is certainly needed. I would just ask the Board to consider that that right now, the current use is not, is not in compliance in terms of parking. So it's currently non conforming as to parking, and will remain non conforming as to parking. And the question becomes, will a proposed use be more substantially detrimental than the existing use? So I just, I think this could be, it could be an avenue for the board.
Thomas White: I would agree. And that's why I was kind of, I was in essence asking that question about the parking relief itself. Because if, if you do look specifically at the leading sentence of 401, point 1.2 I, I somewhat agree with the applicants council that this could be very straightforward. The existing building doesn't comply. This changes it. We could, we could determine that this changes it minimally. Hunter Perry: The parking is more of a business decision than it is. Thomas White: I would agree. I mean, in I think in some cases, we could consider parking. I mean, the by law gives us the ability to sort of constrain parking. But, you know, parking requirements are part of a business decision on behalf of the applicant. I mean, would would she be as interested in this building if it had a parking lot behind it? I mean, it doesn't, and the applicants interested in this as an option, and so the relief that we could grant doesn't solve the potential fact that maybe she will have more customers than she has parking spaces for which could be a problem for the business, but not necessarily a problem for the town. So I'm looking at, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the options for parking relief and whether they actually have a substantially negative impact on, through the standard we have, right noise, vibration, smoke, other objectionable features. I suppose people could raise an objection to additional traffic, but, I mean, there's a lot of traffic at that intersection, I don't know. I don't know that this cafe is going to make traffic different than it necessarily is. So Kirstyn Lipson: can only hope.
Adam Hirsh: Yeah, the also, you have to consider the library lot itself, and that area is not very large to begin with, and you often see that lot being consumed up pretty quickly, especially by patrons on, you know, on the walkway and everything like that. So it's, it's tough, from, it is tough. I, I mean, I definitely see the, I think the value of, like, making those two hour parkings and being able to generate some extra, you know, income from, you know, for the town and stuff. But like, beyond that, like, I don't know how we're going to be able to grab spots from the library to be able to help a business. Thomas White: I don't think Adam Hirsh: I also can't. I also think that if people park there, so be it like you can't stop someone from parking over there. Thomas White: I also don't think the ZBA has the authority to require that DPW to change the signs, however good an idea that may be, yeah, we could. We could. Adam Hirsh: We don't have that. I mean, this is good, Thomas White: yeah, no, it's a great idea. I actually don't, don't know that we could even do that. We have, we might not have the authority to do that. We could suggest. Adam Hirsh: We can suggest, yeah, Thomas White: sorry, you had a you had a comment, yeah, David Lipson: okay with me. Two other points that I'd be saying, Adam Hirsh: Hold on. Please come up and David Lipson: uh? David Lipson 10 Millbrook Road, married to the applicant, obviously very supportive of the project. Just two additional points I thought might be salient to the conversation here. One is the increased expected occupancy in the restaurant occurs on the weekend when part utilization, utilization of the existing parking from employees of businesses that are moving Monday to Friday, so that that higher occupancy becoming at a time when there's naturally less less demand, less strain on the existing Parking that's there. And a second point is, I think there's a expectation that a lot of the community need that the cafe is serving would also be serving the residential areas in and around town center, which can access the property by protected sidewalk. So. So considering the amount of foot and bike traffic, both from the rail trail, from employees at the existing businesses and from patrons walking over from residential areas in town center, I think those could all be considerations in terms of understanding and appreciating what the patronage of the business might actually mean in terms of demand and strain on the existing parking and might impact the considerations for relief. Thank you. Unknown: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I can I think that if, I mean, if we're okay with there, with people parking and like in residential areas, I think when I go out to eat, I'm okay with walking a little bit, and there are a decent amount of spaces to park along that area, if people are willing to walk just a little bit, there are residential streets over there, and there are a good amount of parking lots in that area, if you walk just a little bit that could be shared, especially at night, I think good point. The Town building is only a few minutes away.
Thomas White: Yeah, sorry, reminder, when I, when I lived in the, when I lived in the south end of Boston, I I, I would have to park by 20 minutes from my apartment. I'm comfortable with that. Hunter Perry: I guess one, one point about the library parking lot. You know, it's currently not being policed, for people that are walking on the Rail Trail or, you know, going to other places, why is it fair to not police those people? But, you know, to think that it's going to be an issue for this cafe that's going to that has absolute outcry of support, I just don't necessarily think that that's, you know, to turn to ultimately push away something that has this much over, over an issue like that, Thomas White: I would agree, I think that we heard from the Town Manager that there may be a legal issue tied to permission about using the library parking lot. What could it? Could raise an issue? Because I don't, Adam Hirsh: maybe the Mr. McCall team, yeah, Thomas White: if I did, I hear that, did I hear that concern correctly? Unknown: So I think the problem would lie in dedicated use, and we couldn't give it to dedicate spots to any one particular business without some type of formal agreement and indemnification language. And the other problem is whether or not this would be characterized as a general municipal parking lot. I mean, many of you know just the town building. People come in for the sports field. People are parking there. They come in for the EV chargers. I think it's understood that a lot of people can utilize that parking lot for a multitude of things. During my conversation with the library trustees recently, when it came up about the Tom meeting article and some of the prior votes of the trustees over time about the exclusive use of the library, the question came up whether or not they could post signage that that lot is for library patrons only during library hours, and that standard language, such as, you know, all others, may be removed at the owners expense. Could those type of signs be erected there? And I have forward that to counsel, and it looks like that could be possible. So while it may not have been police previously, it may this conversation may have opened it up to do we have to enforce that going forward if there is no parking for library employees and library patrons during library hours? So that that question was brought to me, so I'm still working on those answers. Hunter Perry: Does that go for the Depot as well? The same issue. Unknown: I looked today trying to find additional information. I didn't. We took the library lot by a taking, from I want to say the Boston and Maine railroad. And I understand there's some dedicated lease parking that may go to the Depot, but I think it's different where there was a town meeting vote to acquire the the additional land for parking across the street, and the plan of land says the intended library parking lot and the language was to be intended for library parking. so I think there's, there's a difference between those spaces. I don't have all the complete legal authority, but in history on it, but I think they are different. Different that the depot spaces there are not for any dedicated use except for those leased spaces to the depot, whereas the library lot, it was the intention of Town meeting to acquire it for the Library.
Hunter Perry: Thank you. Unknown: Just to reiterate, we are not seeking dedicated spot, and additionally that that lot beyond the freight house that is currently not used, but perhaps intended for the library parking is I live right at the road, and I hardly ever see a car and there so that could potentially offer some some relief for the the library's use that is not currently being utilized.
Adam Hirsh: I think, for me, the why I, while I do think the the usage is absolutely fantastic, I still am not sure whether or not we can put a business in a default type of lot, and I don't, I'm still up in the air about it, and whether or not, you know something like that could even be used and kind of based off of what Mr. McCall was saying. So Well, I do think the the idea, the premise of what you're trying to do, is fantastic. So, and there's obviously very high support and very high want, and I, you know, I think the amount of foot traffic you're going to get, and the amount of bicycles and everything is going to be off the chart, and it's going to be great. I just, I still see an issue with dedicating spots like that are not dedicated but allowing. I mean, you're here's the thing is that if someone were to park over there, there's nothing that's going to prevent them from parking over there and coming over at their own risk, right? So, you know, I don't know. It just, I don't know if we can make that a part of this piece. Unknown: Could I just interject, Mr. Chair? It one of my concerns. What Mr. Hirsh alluded to, if we were to do, say, include this as part of the parking relief for this particular business, if somebody else on this, that same area then said, well, they wanted to come back before the ZBA for some alteration or new business, and we've set this precedent now. Do we have to allow them to include and and then what point do you have saturation there that that was just part of the conversation I had with the library and in my own concerns. And again, I'm not it's not about the proposal, really before you. It's the precedent that you set when you start just using as part of the relief, where, does it end down the road? Thomas White: I would agree with you 100% and you know, I've been, while we've been having this discussion, I've sort of gone through the three provisions of the bylaw. And I don't have a conclusion, but I see a I see a problem in in the way the bylaw language like we have an option to consider a straightforward relief under 401.1 in which case I think I would need advice from town council, but I think we would have the latitude to waive parking. right. I am concerned, however, that in in the parking bylaw, specifically 506 1.1, there's a provision that allows a under a site plan review, to sort of for for the site plan review, granting authority to discuss any or all of the party that seems to apply, that seems to give us the latitude to waive parking requirements. However, this project doesn't require site plan review, so I think that avenue was closed. I think under the change of use provisions for the restaurant proposal, I think it's extremely straightforward, and I think we could easily approve that in that language. Yeah, so I guess the thing that I'm I'm coming back to is, I, I, I still think we need some kind of legal vehicle to address the, ultimately, a waiver of the parking requirements. Michael McCall: So if I may, Mr. Chair again, where I'm still in the process of gathering information, you know, it may be prudent that you continue to matter and seek some additional opinion from town council relative to the questions that you and the other board members have. You know. Just so that gives you that footing, that way you're working in the best interest both of the town and the applicant. Thomas White: I would agree. I'm actually going to make that, we're going to make that. I would make that request of you, because I need to run requests to speak with town counsel thorugh. I absolutely would, because I think it's important. I think there is a legal path here. I think we just need a little bit of guidance to make sure one that we address the applicants concerns the the application fairly and positively, but also make sure that we're not we're not establishing a precedent. Because as interesting as this sounds like, if we conceivably say we could come up with a vehicle to waive their parking requirements here. You know, we have to imagine that there could conceivably be a precedent set, that there could be another use that comes in that would look for that really, if we would absolutely not be interested in waiving those parking requirements, because it's not necessarily a compelling use case. So there is a challenge. There is a challenge to this relief strictly under the 401 point 1.2 section of this of the special permit language. So I'm just, I'm mindful of both of those things so, but I think to continue this, not, not to get too bogged down. If we look at the the narrative and the requested relief, I think the applicant indicated that we're not really concerned with the rear setback requirement. We need a special permit for the restaurant use. The signage will be handled separately. The outdoor dining would be handled separately. It just, it just really turns on the two issues of the restaurant special permit and the off street parking requirements. And I'm satisfied that 1102, point 1.1 is extremely straightforward, and there would be no impediment to this board issuing, issuing that permit for the restaurant itself. I think the question about, the question about parking is, is an important one. I think it's an important one to the applicant. I don't think any of us want to know, you know, create an approval process and then, you know, basically not allow the applicant to succeed because there isn't enough parking. But I think the applicant study the neighborhood, knows what the parking limits are. Unknown: So I would also note that the all the other businesses in the area do have onsite permit. Thomas White: Yes, this one, this building, seems to be the only one Unknown: yes. So just in terms of precedent setting, you know, from the historical district, and no onsite parking. Adam Hirsh: So in my mind, there are kind of two avenues that you could potentially go down. First avenue, is we could potentially put to a vote and approval for the restaurant use without the parking part of it, in which you know, patrons will have to figure figure it out right. Or the other option is potentially doing a continuance, getting more understanding of potential expectations. And you know what, what is allowed and stuff, and then, you know, doing, doing that continuance. Thomas White: So, yeah, I have concerns about bifurcating the permit in two. I think it exposes the applicant in the town Adam Hirsh: I was saying, drop it, yeah, parking provision completely at that point. If it was to go through tonight, Thomas White: I don't think we do that. I think I would suggest we can. I would suggest we continue this, because I think that all out will allow me to seek some additional legal counsel to sort of confirm that we're on solid footing. Proceeding with a split. It's a slightly different form of relief. Under 401, point 1.2 and under 1111, or 2.1 point Adam Hirsh: one which is the avenue that I was actually recommending, yeah, but there is the other avenue, and I just want to make sure the applicant is aware. You could technically amend it to remove that part. Yeah. Thomas White: The other challenge, of course, is that we've only got four people tonight, so although we have a quorum, we have a year yes vote yes. Sorry about that, but Adam Hirsh: I just wanted to, I wanted to make sure everything was laid out. So that way interesting. Yeah. Thomas White: So I guess would you be, notwithstanding the fact that just obviously, a lot of people here, and not everyone is here has spoken, given that it's such a compelling proposal to pointed out the fact that our bylaw doesn't really contemplate a lot of things in this area. So you know, would you be amenable to continuing this to next month so we could come up with a hopefully a clean decision and a legally sound way of proceeding here, Unknown: Jeff, I might check with you to see if you have any. I know we do have a provision in the purchase and sale for an additional 30 day extension. Any other considerations that need to come to mind? Jeffery Ugino: I think it's a great idea to continue, as long as you're fine with a Kirsten, Unknown: yeah, yeah, Kirstyn Lipson: great. Then, yes, I'm amenable Thomas White: Great. So Kirstyn Lipson: I guess my follow up question, is there anything that you need from me in preparation for that, or is it more Adam Hirsh: I think its plainly on us Thomas White: And I think, unfortunately, it's mainly on us and meaning me. So there'd be a lawyer can help me there? All right, yeah, as I said, I don't. I don't have any other questions on the restaurant use and the change of use of this for restaurant that's extremely straightforward. And as I said, I'm comfortable that the outdoor seating panel as a separate application and signage handled separately is also very straightforward. We've dealt with that on numerous restaurant projects before, where the signage is done as a separate application. So that's easy. That's easy to do, I guess before we ask you to sign a continuance, given that there's a number of people here, are there any other people here that had anything that they, you know, concern or comment that they wanted to make about this?
Hunter Perry: I guess one other piece on how she may be able to help. If there's any creative ideas that you have for the parking piece, any conversations that you can have with you know, library and depot prior to that meeting that would only be helpful. Kirstyn Lipson: I did share with with Mr. McCall on the depot specifically, because I think that seems like the more open one, changing from it's currently single, pull in and parallel, perpendicular, parked on one side. But based on the footprint of the lot, you could change it to pull in and angled on both sides, and that would add about eight spots. Gretchen Schuler: It used to be that like it was. Hunter Perry: There you go. And for what it's worth, it seems like there's enough excitement to pursue something like that. Yeah. Thomas White: And the only thing I'm the only thing I would ask is, is there any I'm trying to think about the calculation we did to determine the parking required for the 45 seats an hour and the 55 seats an hour, is there any? Is there anything in the methodology of that calculation that would allow you to always keep this within 20%
Kirstyn Lipson: I could we talked about being open to doing like a max capacity. We would be amenable to that. David Lipson: And I think what, or what it's worth to the layout that we put forward, we just want to be consistent when we went to DPW for the Wastewater, so we wanted to show it at its absolute building max capacity. So it's not necessarily that what you guys saw is not necessarily the layout it's going to be it was just, we just want to show, based on the square footage, the max capacity. Thomas White: So I would agree. I think that's extremely important. I think as you talked about fire as well, typically there's like multiple classifications of the occupancy. There's like the the egress capacity, the fire capacity, wastewater capacity, parking capacity, and an actual usage of the number of people that you can reasonably fit in the building. Kirstyn Lipson: So, and we have aired on the conservative side with DPW. So the Thomas White: Yeah, no, but I'm saying I also, I think it's appropriate that you have different numbers. I don't think the number you give to the DPW has to be the same as the number you give for parking, nor is it the number you use on your egos calculations. I think they're all supposed to be different. That's totally acceptable. So was that, I guess the only thing other item was, do we have a continuance form that the applicant can sign? Unknown: She wouldn't need to for a special permit. Let's just continue. Thomas White: Alright, perfect. Alright. So do we have to pick a do we have to vote on a continuance for a date and time certain, I believe we do. Yes, yeah, to Adam Hirsh: we want make sure that she actually agrees with it. Thomas White: Yeah, we have an official, officially done it yet. Yeah, ask her, and then yes. So you, you right? So great. All right, so let me just check the calendar again, October 14, yeah, um, so I'd make a motion that we continue application. 2525 2525 to was the date again, October or 14. October 14, at, I guess, seven, 7:10pm, Adam Hirsh: second, Thomas White: second, alright, by roll call. Ms. Paul Justine Paul: aye Thomas White: Perry Hunter Perry: aye Thomas White: Hirsh Adam Hirsh: aye Thomas White: White aye alright. So we are officially extended to next month, and then hopefully we will be able to have some positive news for you. And then obviously, in the interim, you have any additional information on sort of the metrics for that hourly parking calculation that you could email, that would be great. I think there's some opportunity there, because that is a that is not necessarily a prescribed calculation in the bylaw. So I think there's some opportunity to understand how that gets determined. So thank you for the application, and I'm excited about what the opportunities it disposes. I think we heard from a lot of people that there's, there's an enormous amount of enthusiasm for this. See if we can find a way here. Unknown: Thank you for your consideration, collaboration. Thank you, pleasure. Thank Hunter Perry: you. Thank you. Alright.
Thomas White: We have any updates from the building Commissioner.
Nathan Maltinsky: Has everyone looked at the annual report prepared by ZBA? Thomas White: I know that I have because Anita did a wonderful job writing it. any other comments.
Nathan Maltinsky: No, not really this status quo. Yep, nothing, nothing. Really new report on it
Thomas White: any board comments or concerns? Alright, anyone
have a motion move to adjourn second? Alright, Miss Paul, hi, Mr. Perry. Hi, white, aye. All right, we're adjourned. Thank you.