December 3, 2025 – 212 Cochituate Road Advisory Committee – Video & Transcript

December 3, 2025 - 212 Cochituate Road Advisory Committee

Autoscroll:

So we'll call over to the meeting of the 212 Petitua Road Advisory Committee on Wednesday, December 3rd, 2025, 6.02 p.m. This is a hybrid meeting. You may watch this meeting remotely. Also, we'll be playing an awakening by people via public comment if they like. The end of the CD will include public comment. We'll welcome Chris Ferguson, manager of the Roche Family Real Estate Company. Chatted about his experiences with housing individuals with adult disabilities.
We'll consider the minutes on November 6th, 2025. And we will possibly be November 13th, 2025, and we'll discuss the proposed proposal and we'll follow up on legal other questions raised during the committee's October 8th, 2025 meeting. So, given that, if anybody online would like to give a public comment. Stephanie, you have a question. Yeah, I don't know if it's just me, but it's, your voice is breaking up. It's kind of hard to hear. Okay, so we had this problem the other night with the Slack Board. I'm going to do this. I'm going to move my chair because this particular speaker was the same speaker that gave people a hard time on Monday, Monday night, the Slack Board meeting, which was held in this room. So, Stephanie, is that better or no? Definitely better. So, we know the culprit. So, we will have our tech people get on to that.
So, anyone online to provide public comment? We'll move on, then, to item three of our agenda. And, again, welcome, Chris Ferguson, manager of the Roach Family Real Estate Company, LLC. See, by way of background, I had the pleasure of meeting Chris several months ago when he appeared in this room, Ms. Luckman's room, with housing advocates. And now there's a chat about his company and what they do. And it's extremely informative. And I've kept in touch with Chris over the past several months. And he's got a wealth of information on the topics that we're exploring. So, Chris, why don't you introduce yourself, tell us about the history of your organization, I think, is very interesting. And then tell us about the accomplishments that the company has achieved over the past few years. Sure, Tom. And thanks for having me on and, you know, being able to give my input on this. As you said, you know, we talked about this. Initially, Catherine Provost at Wayland Housing Authority has a Section 8 voucher for one of our residents. So, I've known, had dealings professionally with Catherine, six, coming up on seven years. A Wayland resident is living in our home in Norwood. So, you know, I told her about our homes initially. And she was, you know, very impressed about the whole idea. So, that's kind of the introduction here. But at first, like, before I give my background, I have been following the meetings. I got the Waycam app. And in my truck, when I'm going about, I've been listening. Because, you know, I know that there's a huge need for it. And I commend the town of Wayland, the committee itself, for taking a proactive approach. I mean, usually it's a town you're trying to get approval from, and you have to, you know, bend over backwards. So, you know, I really commend the committee involving the neighbors was, you know, huge. I mean, one of the biggest things when you talk about supportive housing homes or group homes is there is a stigma. And really, it starts from the unknown. So, the approach that you folks all have, not only as a town, but everybody's input on this committee, I think, is, you know, you're serving your constituents and your fellow residents of the town very well. So, I'll just say that to get that off. Thank you very much. Sure. So, as you said, my name is Chris Ferguson. I'm the manager of the Roach Family Real Estate Company. We're based out of Walpole, a small family-run business. My father-in-law, Jack Roach, started the company, went out on his own in 1960. And, you know, he pretty much was a one-man show for, you know, throughout most of his early adult life. And, you know, the real estate business went up and down, and Jack was smart enough to, you know, not be focused on one thing. So, it transitioned from initially some real estate that he owned in the city to, you know, building large single-family homes in the Westwood area, commercial properties later. At one point, we owned a lot of multifamily homes in the city of Boston. And, in 2010, we were approached by Steve Merritt, who I know you had on here, from the Norwood Housing Authority, the executive director. We owned a property in Norwood, outside of Norwood Center. And, initially, we were going to develop it into a small-scale elderly complex. This neighborhood is, folks have been there, you know, their families have been there. They sold their house to their children, you know, generations and generations. It's a very tight-knit neighborhood. They didn't want it. And we weren't going to force it down, you know, or even try to force it down anyone's throat. So, we sat on the property for a while. Steve Merritt at Norwood Housing Authority, in early 2010, approached my father-in-law, and said that they've been looking to partner with a developer to establish a home for, you know, at the time, there were a lot of residents of Norwood that were aging out of the school system. You know, they were kind of in limbo. And if we were interested in starting it out. And Steve had the foresight and also the knowledge to get a project-based Section 8 home approved. So, that was a big plus. So, Steve, I know who you had on here, Tom. And I watched the meeting that he was on there. He's very modest, but he really is, you know, the inputs for all of our homes dating back to 2010. So, just kind of to paint the picture. In 2010, the home was named by the residents. It's yellow. But they just called it, nicknamed it the Yellow House. So, we've always called it the Yellow House. That started in 2010. So, fast forward to 2013. We purchased one home on Wilson Street in Norwood with a lot of land in the back. And we developed two brand-new houses. We redid the one house that we bought. And they were all listed for sale on the open market as a single-family home. So, at the time, our service provider had a long wait list of people. This program really caught on. And they approached us and asked if we would ever consider converting these homes into the individuals, the group homes, the supportive housing group home. So, you know, everything was under contract with the Caldwell Bank or real estate. And the only reason that they let us back out of it because of the nature of what we were going to do with the properties. So, we took two of the houses were brand new. And I know one of the questions that came up at a lot of the meetings when you had different agencies in was, what is this going to look like? And I think, Bill Adams, I think you're the neighborhood representative. It's a very valid question. I made this little graphic behind me because these are our five houses. And, really, they don't look any different. You drive down the street and they're no different than any other house in the neighborhood. And in most cases, they, you know, the grounds are, you know, immaculate and such. So, really, that's what they look like. So, 2013, backing up, we converted the houses. So, we had three houses on a cul-de-sac in Norwood. And the first day, first weekend, the service provider that we had had an open house. And so, there's nine residents in each of these three houses. And they had people signed up for all 27 rooms on the first open house over a two-day weekend. So, that's really how that started. And those houses also were a big success. We purchased another house in Walpole in 2014. We did meet some resistance getting that approved. There were a couple of neighbors that were, you know, dead against having that. And they appealed it. But it is, it got approved. And that opened up in 2014. And all five of the homes have been running successfully since that point. So, you know, that's kind of how we got it. And almost, we got into it by default on these homes. But the approach that we took that really from day one was that if we were going to do it, we don't have any expertise in the clinical end or the services end, readily admit that. Another thing we readily admit is that we're a for-profit business. Now, that doesn't mean that we can't do good with the projects that we choose. And we always try to. But, you know, we are a little different than some of the agencies that you had in that are non-profits. And, you know, this model is a little bit different model. I'm sure you heard. So, Larry Oaks of Mainstay. Mainstay is now our service provider for four out of these five homes. And they, so they provide all the services in the clinical end of it. And we manage the property, own the property, and collect the rents in the property. So, these homes really, they fill a need that is out there that really is not being addressed. And it's kind of a little bit of a niche. So, our residents are high-functioning. And they have, they don't qualify to be funded for a 24-hour, 24-7 DDS home or DMH home. They are too high-functioning, too independent for that. But then also, they need some help and activities for daily living. And they need, you know, supports and for their families to feel safe. They need, you know, they can't just move out on their own. So, really, some of our residents, it's you stay with your aging parents and your family home and not having your, you know, not having your independence. And you don't qualify for a DDS home. It's going to give you plenty of services. But, so our houses kind of fall in between that. And our residents are, you know, very, very independent. A lot of them come from, like I mentioned, you have a, we have a Wayland resident. And, you know, one of the biggest things is when you're living with your family or even an out-of-the-way place is you don't have the independence and you do face isolation. And these homes have provided, you know, a lot of social skills for residents. It's, it's guided them towards their independence on, on living on their own. We have some residents that moved in, in 2010, in the first home that are still living there. We have two that are boyfriend, girlfriend. They've been there since day one, August in 2010. And, you know, they are, if you ask them, they live in the dream. They, you know, they, in a vibrant community, accepting community. And, and we have the same thing at the three homes on the cul-de-sac. We have residents in 2013 that moved in that are still there now. And then the other thing is that we've had residents that have been in the homes for long term and have gained enough independence that have gone out and, and got apartments on their own. And I'll tell you each time that somebody, it told me that they're going to have to move out to move on their own. I usually hear from a parent or a loved one and it's all in every case, almost identical is they feel so bad. They, I'm sorry to tell you that, you know, Kevin is going to be moving. And, you know, at first I'm like, oh, you know, and, and then they say, why? And, and I'm like, there's nothing to be sorry about. I mean, that, when you tell me that, that makes me feel that, you know, in a small way, maybe we played some small part in, in that. And really that's what it's all about. And that's what these homes are all about. It's creating an opportunity that might not otherwise be there for individuals who deserve it just as much as, as you and I. So, Chris, you sent over earlier today to me a couple of length, short videos that concern two of your homes. Is that right? Well, actually it's three. I know it said on the, on the thing, 41 and 45 Wilson, but it's actually three. So, so the bottom two homes below me in this, in this graphic, and then over my right shoulder, that the yellow one at the top, those are all on a cul-de-sac. So the one at the top right is, is actually on the street. And we had the land. So we have a private way cul-de-sac that goes back with two of the other homes. So, so really it's, it's three homes there all in one area. And yeah, so another thing about being accepting and me, you know, bringing up the fact that I believe that it's a great thing what you're doing, you know, exploring this is, and each of the cases when our homes went for approval, because we did have to get approval. We're all in, in resident, single family resident zones. The yellow house was a little bit different because that had the backing of the Norwood housing authority. It had a section eight project based section eight that was supported by Stephen Lynch at the time. So that house was a little bit different, but the three Wilson streets met a little bit of resistance from some neighbors. And I'll tell this quick story. There was one neighbor behind one of the houses on a side street. And he was a little vocal during the, during the hearings about the homes and the town manager at the time spoke in favor of the home saying that, you know, there's nothing to be scared about. You're going to have the best neighbors that you could have and, and very well maintained properties. You know, there's no parties, there's no loud music and things like that. So anyway, this one gentleman, again, it's the unknown. A lot of times he was against it and spoke against it. You know, why do we have to have three, you know, why can't just give them in someone else's neighborhood. And this gentleman approached my father-in-law in the gym. My father-in-law passed away in 2020, but he would go to the gym seven days a week, church and gym seven days a week, no matter what. When the gym was closed on Christmas day, he was mad. So he's at the gym one day, this gentleman comes up to him who he doesn't know. And he says, are you Jack Roach? And he's like, I'm so-and-so. I live on Orlando street behind. And he's like, oh yeah. He's like, I just want to tell you, I really feel ashamed of myself. And he's, my father-in-law said, what do you mean? And he said, well, I was one of the ones that spoke out against your homes when they first came, came for approval. And he's like, a couple of weeks ago, I was, I get, I was in my house and I get a knock on the door and it's a young lady that's a resident of your home. And, and I opened up the door thinking that something was wrong and everything okay. And she said, oh, I'm glad to see that you're okay. She used to see him at Dunkin' Donuts, which is right down the street, getting a coffee every morning. They were on the same schedule and they'd chat or whatever. And she hadn't seen him for a couple of weeks. So, you know, she knew where he lived. So she went to check on him and he was in Florida with his wife, visiting family or whatever. But he's like, you know, I feel really bad that I was, you know, speaking out against these homes, thinking that it was going to be something terrible. And here, this young woman is, you know, looking out for my safety, thinking that something was wrong and wanted to check up on me. So, I mean, that's a story that really stuck, kind of stuck with us. But these videos, Tom, that you, that you talked about showing, one of them was from around this time last year, around for the holiday season. And it was covered by the local cable TV. And the town really has been welcoming to these homes, to the residents. The three houses that we're talking about on the cul-de-sac, I live, like, I live in Walpole, but it's four minutes from those homes. So I shop at the same supermarkets, you know, I go to the same stores. And, you know, not only do I see the residents on a daily basis in our homes, in that setting, but out and about, I see them interacting, you know, with the general, you know, other neighbors shopping, the, you know, the cashiers. And, you know, it's really, it's really a community of the homes themselves. You have the housemates, but it's also the community has embraced the homes and, you know, gave them a sense of belonging also. Some of our residents, we have a resident from Tewksbury, you know, they were isolated at their home living with their mother. And now he's the most social person, you know, walked down the street and he knows everybody. So, yeah, I'll let you play the video, but that's kind of just a little bit of a background on that. Can I ask John Thomas to bring it up if he's able on the sharing screen? So I invite John to bring up the first one, if you could. You want me to just proceed into the second one? Or, Chris, do you want to give another?
You can. And, I mean, the second one is just, it's just, it's actually the residents. All of them, all of those folks that speak are residents of our homes in Norwood. And it's just really them saying what the homes have meant to them. And piggybacking on that, in 2018, our service provider for the five homes gave notice on January 1st that by September 1st, they were no longer, they were going in a different direction, this agency. They had other programs. They were the first ones to start up with this program. So it was something new. They had new management. So they were going in a different direction. So we had to go on our own because we own the properties. It wasn't, the state didn't have involvement on it per se. So as the owner of the properties, we had to locate another service provider, which ended up being mainstay. And so the whole summer and spring, you know, we started out with a list of 34 providers, whittled it down to 17 because some geographically or didn't serve that population. And then we ended up with four and decided on mainstay. But at that time, there was a little bit of discussion when the previous provider was leaving that there was going to be an issue with the group adult foster care funding that MassHealth provides that this program uses. So apparently somebody heard some rumblings at the statehouse level. So before we went and approached new agencies, we kind of had to, on our own, and it's a little out of our wheelhouse, and Steve Merritt was there at every single meeting, we had to get insurances. We couldn't go to, you know, Tom Fay's agency and present this program to be taken over. If there were question marks, they wouldn't do it. So we had full support. We got support of the state reps and state senators in our area who were very helpful. The executive office of Health and Human Services were behind it. But prior to going into these meetings, I wanted to reach out to the families and have them just do a little testimonial to, you know, what this program and what these homes mean to their loved one. It's easy for me, just like I am here, to tell you folks the importance of these homes. You know, I see it, but it's a whole different story. You know, it sounds a little self-serving for me being the landlord and the owner than if it comes from the residents who are actually, you know, right in it. So I asked for those letters. I still have a stack here in my office. It's like a small phone book. Everybody was happy to do it. And, you know, reading through them, me personally, being involved on a day-to-day basis and I see all this, it was just heartwarming to read the stories of really what this means and if it were taken away, what it would, you know, how it would set back their loved ones. So that's really that. So the second, that was a long-winded answer, John, but the second video is a video that Mainstay made just asking what the residents, you know, what they like about the houses, what it means, and it's all in their words. It was unscripted. It was filmed on a Sunday, I believe. They just showed up and did it and boom, you know, what do you think? So, here you go.
Okay. I will attempt to play both of the videos back-to-back. Okay. Thanks, John. The house is up here on Wilson Street that my family owns and I manage their supportive housing for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. So it's just kind of kicking off the holiday season, get everybody together, families are welcome, the community is welcome, and we're gathering out here on a beautiful night, sing a few songs and get in the spirit. The program up here is a little bit different than standard group homes. It's a collaboration between the landlord, the service provider, which has the staffing, and the families as well to give the residents a collaborative living support type of independent living. So Mainstay has been around for 50 years. It'll be 50 years in 2025. And so we provide supportive services for people with disabilities. We have different segments of our business, which is housing for people with disabilities, seniors. But the model that we're talking about here is primarily for individuals supported, independent living for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. We're trying to create more community. You come out of the pandemic and everybody kind of went into their shells and we actually experienced a lot of hard to fill the apartments, the units, as people were staying home. So this past summer we finally got, it took that long, but we got them all filled. So in this Norwood group, there are four houses. There's three on this cul-de-sac for 27 people. And then there's one called the Yow House in Norwood Center, which has seven individuals. In order to really create community, more community, and not have three, four separate houses, we want to create this program for the holidays and kind of bring everybody together. And the program is that if you come to this cul-de-sac, you would see one for all men, one for all women, and one is co-ed. So it's kind of like having three different groups come together for a mixer. The old word is a mixer. But it's really a nice time to have them come together and enjoy each other's company. I was actually invited here by Darcy Fisher. And she just said that it's wonderful morale. Everybody's spirits are high. We're getting in the holiday spirit of things. And that it would be great if I could come by. So I was honored to be a participant. Everybody is so happy. It's so nice to just be at an event where we can enjoy ourselves. A lot of the times the job of Miss Massachusetts is looking for fundraising or working with different businesses or promoting our community service initiative. But events like this are just about high spirits and having fun. It's coming here and seeing people who may not have a chance to have independence the way you and I would have it. But here they are. They're having time tonight, seeing, dancing, just interacting the way any of us would do. That's what's exciting to me. I just appreciate the opportunity that Mainstay, you know, we enjoy a wonderful relationship with our landlord, Roach Real Estate, who was really, they, you know, they brought into this mission 12 years ago. And I would invite anybody who would like to come for a tour and see these homes and see the program. I'm more than welcome to be with them. I can introduce them to Mainstay. The second one might be tougher to find. Allie, what do you like about living here?
Some of the things I hear are new friendships, good job, new friends around town, outside the houses. And it's like... The people are really nice, and the area is really cool. It's just really easy to get along with everyone here. I like it a lot. Oh, these houses have been a blessing for our family. My daughter's 32 now. She's been here for about five years. There really was nothing available for her. And she was looking at living with me home alone into my old age. So this house has been a wonderful new model. She gets a degree of independence, but with supervision. What are some of the words you guys think about when you think about living here at Mainstay? This is awesome.
Mainstay has been supportive to me, helped me, and guided me into what I need help with to become more independent. Friends here.
Good to work with people that will show you the way to success, probably, and your goals as well. Thank you, John, for playing those. And why don't we open up to questions now. And, Jean, any questions you have for Chris? Thank you. Thank you for being here. Sure. Talk about a little bit, kind of, about the funding sources for your residents. And just to give us a range, you know, we've heard lots of different ways that people get assistance to afford to live in a lonely place like that. What can you share with us about the funding at your properties? Sure. So, the three homes that are on the cul-de-sac together that we were just talking about, and the first home, the yellow house, which is called the project-based section house, section eight home. Those are in a program, and the service provider is Mainstay. I'll talk about that in a second. But I should mention that our home in Walpole, in November of 2024, we switched gears with that home because of issues with vacancies and all amongst between the five homes. And we actually lease that home now to Riverside Community Care, which I know you have had in also. And that is a different type of program. So, that's a 24-hour, 24-7 care program that they have a contract through DMH, the Department of Mental Health. So, that is just a, we don't have the day-to-day involvement in that home. That's more of a lease situation, and we control and are responsible for the major items. They provide the maintenance, the services. The other four homes, there's a split. So, each resident pays a fee for the services to the service provider, and they also pay a rent to the landlord, us, as a thing. So, the project-based Section 8 home, every one of the seven rooms in that home has a voucher subsidy attached to that room. So, anybody that moves into that room, as long as they're qualified for the services end of things, automatically starts off with a voucher, and they pay 30% of what their income is. That's on the rent side. Right now, we probably have, probably coming up on 75% of our residents have Section 8 vouchers now. A lot of them, so seven of those are from that yellow house, and a lot of the residents, because they've been on the waiting list, some of the residents that have been at the three homes on the cul-de-sac for 10 years, they came up on the waiting list. And then, there's others, like the gentleman that I spoke of earlier from Wayland, who received the Section 8 travel voucher, and, you know, they moved into this type of thing. So, on the rent end, you know, they pay the rent to the landlord. We have a responsibility breakdown with the service provider on certain things. We're responsible for all the maintenance. And then, on the services end of things, a services fee is paid to the service provider, but that is offset with funding that they receive through the MassHealth Group Adult Foster Care Program. So, that's a benefit the individual has, not a contract-based thing with the service provider. The individual qualifies for that benefit through MassHealth, and it's all done on billable hours and things like that. And so, that helps offset what the monthly services fee is, which we'll pay for. They provide dinner seven days a week. It's a community dinner. They try to get the residents involved in the cooking, which helps them, you know, boost on their independence. They plan menus together as a family. The residents are responsible on their own for lunch and breakfast. But to stay on topic with the funding that you asked, there's really those two components. So, some of the residents will have a subsidy, a housing subsidy, through a Section 8 voucher. So, their rents will be reduced. We do have residents that pay the full rent. And then, on the services end, there is money out of pocket by the family, the resident, that goes to the service provider. And that money is offset by the Group Adult Foster Care Program.
Super. Thank you. So, just to kind of give an overview, I know I didn't say it in the beginning, and I shouldn't just assume that everybody knows. So, this program, as far as staffing goes, there are, it's not a 24-hour program, like I said earlier. There is a residence manager at each of the homes, and they come in in the afternoon, varying times, between like 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, and they're there until 9 or 10 at night. Um, the residents come home, either from a day program, in most cases, um, or jobs, and then, you know, the, the residence manager kind of gets things going towards dinner, and then, you know, the evening. And then, the other component is, each of these homes has a separate two-bedroom, live-in staff apartment. So, generally speaking, all these homes were converted. So, generally speaking, in, in three out of the five homes, it's where the garage space would be, and that space was converted into a separate apartment. Um, but, so there's a live-in staff that, there's two people that are the live-in staff. One of them has to be on the property from 10 o'clock at night till 7.30 in the morning in case of emergency. And they also do nightly checks, uh, at 10 o'clock, you know, everybody's home that needs to be home, everything's shut down, that needs to be shut down. And then, you know, they go 7.30 in the morning, you know, kind of make sure everybody gets their day off, right? Not forgetting things. And people go on their own way. The live-in staff, even if they are in the home, they're off duty at that time. Um, a lot of them, you know, they are, they understand they're not in this for the money. They understand the program. So, a lot of them make themselves available if something comes up, even though they're technically not on duty. But, you know, a lot of the live-in staff will have regular daytime jobs during the day too. So, um, you know, during the morning hours, if a resident is home between, say, 7.30 and one o'clock or so when, when staff comes on, you know, the service provider has, uh, a staff nurse that comes and checks, you know, they have appointments for the residents. Um, there's, you know, there's management. And then myself, I tried to every day go just walk through the houses and we try to give a little bit of ownership to our, to the residents and having, uh, one person myself come in versus having to call in a contractor with different people all the time, uh, for, especially for small items, kind of gives it a little bit of a routine, but it also, you know, when I go in and I say, you know, to the resident, you know, Paul, you know, any, anything going on, any problems, you know, we try to give them kind of an ownership and a pride of their home that they can report a problem, even if it's small, because sometimes small problems turn into big problems. Um, so there are people around during the day, but it's not, there's no specific, uh, formal staffing during that time. Um, and, and it really works out well. I mean, I view my role kind of as a caretaker. I, I want the residents to feel that it's their home and to be proud of their home. And I'm kind of there just to make everything work and make sure that everything's running smoothly and safely. Good. Um, Stephanie, any questions for Chris? Oh, I think a little more interesting, a little more detail on the adult foster care. So this is, um, it's not, not really like the adult family care mass health, which is more like a full-time, um, supervision type of a thing. Uh, are all the residents on the same program and then they, um, they, uh, then mass health kicks in something for all of them or what? Well, I mean, that's a good question, but, and I don't, I mean, I can give you my answer, but it's not my expertise. I mean, we are strictly the landlord end of it, but my experience is that everybody in the program right now, uh, receives the mass health benefit, um, to qualify for it because it's not that they can't, they couldn't live in the homes if they didn't, but the cost because that all the money that, that the group adult foster care program, the benefit kicks in to the service provider that has to be made up by the individual. And for most it's cost prohibitive, um, without that component. So I believe most, most, most everybody, um, takes advantage of that benefit. Thank you. Yeah. Brian, any questions? Chris, thanks for coming tonight. You guys do a great job. Thank you. So thankful for the help you give an art client. Um, I just have a question. I mean, you have a very hands-on approach. Um, what happens if, if, is it for the legacy of, if, if you, uh, leave or the staff changes, what happens to that hands-on approach? Who makes up the difference there? So are you speaking just on the landlord end? The landlord end, I mean, you visit every day. Um, yeah, well, well, my, uh, so on the, on the services end of it, we, we have switched providers and it does fall on us to, you know, ensure that. Um, and when we did switch providers, I'll add, there was a lot of uncertainty at that time when the previous provider, um, gave notice and none of the, none of the, you would think that some of the families might, you know, jump ship because of the uncertainty. Um, and you know, everybody stayed on board, but as far as, as that, so my position, my brother in law, Chris Roach is, is a partner in, in the business, his wife, Maria, and my wife, Carrie, and we both have, both sides have, uh, three adult children. Um, I'm the only, I'm a paid position. So my job, my going into the houses every day is, is a paid position. So that, you know, that the management aspect of it, you know, it's kind of falls under the property management. And if for something that were happening to me that I would be incapacitated, then there would be another manager that would, would do the same thing.
Sure. Yeah. Question.
Yes, John. So Chris, you mentioned, um, you talked a little bit about, excuse me, when that service provider decided to step out, um, was that the only time when you had a service provider that, um, that left and you said that they, they made the decision to, to step away? Have you ever had, um, a situation where the residents or, or you folks have essentially asked a provider to, to leave for whatever reason, they, they weren't fulfilling their end of the bargain or, or whatever? Sure. That's a, that's a valid question. Um, no, um, so we had, when the program first started, it was all new to everybody. Uh, the people, the management at the provider, uh, they were a component with it. We were a component. Steve Merritt at Norwood Housing Authority was a component and, you know, we kind of got it up and running. They provided all the services for the homes and then the four homes that followed that right up until September 1st, 2018. And Mainstay is the one that took over. We are familiar with those. Um, they took over September 1st, 2018 and have been doing, um, providing services since then. But no, there's been no issues. And that was just more of a different direction, I believe in their agency. Um, so there is the thing, and I know from watching your meetings that you all have, and I think John, you probably more than most, um, understand the, the DDS component and the five, no more than five unrelated, uh, individuals living in one house. The, the, the other service provider had a lot of DDS contracts and there was, you know, some friction between, it was kind of looked down upon at the time. Um, so since then we've actually had a couple of residents that have moved in that their, their rent and their services end of it was paid by DDS. Um, they, for whatever reason, they didn't fit the model, or I don't know if they didn't have openings for them, but two different, uh, residents I know, um, had that. And when, to back up on the house in Walpole that we entered into a lease with Riverside, um, when we looked to, to transition that off to a different program, we kind of started off back at square one, like we were looking for a new service provider. Cause we wanted to, the easiest thing with that home, that home is on a two acre lot in Walpole, beautiful location. And it was converted. And the easiest thing with that house would have been to either convert it back to a single family home, do some renovations and sell it because it's very desirable location or, but we really wanted to, to kind of continue its purpose, uh, of, of what it was done. And it didn't really look like it was going to be possible because of the size of the home doesn't fit the, you know, for five people, sure, five people would live beautifully in that home, but the agency is not going to be able to afford to pay the rent to service the, you know, the, the debt on that home. So, um, we just ended up just by chance, we spoke with somebody at the Walpole housing authority who put us in contact with somebody at GMH. And then DMH saw this opportunity, uh, put us in contact with Riverside. I know that, uh, the, uh, president from Riverside said that the Walpole house kind of fell on their lap and, and that's really what happened. And that was like, if that didn't happen, then that home would probably be a single family, uh, home right now. But, um, you know, our number one priority was to try to get that to, uh, to go, but no, there was no, there was no friction. And I think, and even talking with the agencies, once again, seven years, six years removed from the first time in 2018, um, you know, a lot of them, you know, really knew about our homes and wish they could do something, but it was just, for most, it was just too large of a home. Yeah.
Yes. Uh, Chris, first let me, uh, join my colleagues in thanking you for, uh, spending, uh, your time of this this evening, uh, actually have a few questions, uh, cutting off if I go too long. Um, uh, I gather that rent is paid directly by the residents to you, to rent, to Roach real estate. Yes. So those without a voucher pay the full rent to us and those with the voucher, the housing agency will pay their portion and the resident will pay their care. Uh, right. And, uh, and do you find that the, the fair market rents established by the housing authority are sufficient, uh, for your purposes? Well, I think if you asked around and I, and I think it was brought up at one of your meetings before our rents are actually very well below. Um, there, there are a couple of homes that have been modeled off of our homes and I don't want to say copycat, but they, they were, you know, same type of program in similar situations that have, uh, one of them has at least double what our rent is. Um, we don't look at, you know, what we can get out of it. We, you know, we've invested in these homes. It's, it's a long-term investment for, for the family, for everything. And so initially, no, what housing authority in the first home in 2010 set the rent rate that they thought was appropriate for a single, uh, single room occupancy. And we went from there. We've only had two other rent increases over that 15 years. So we work hard. And one of the things that we can control because we are hands-on is, you know, we can control our costs. We're not over mortgaged and have a big debt load to carry. You know, we run our business the way we run our business. And we realize that a lot of our residents, the ones, especially the ones that are paying the full rent, uh, they make great sacrifices to afford this, uh, opportunity for their loved ones. You know, there's some families that have downsized their homes because, you know, this is a long-term commitment. Uh, this isn't, you know, renting an apartment for a one-year lease, you know, it's a long-term commitment. So, you know, we recognize the, the sacrifices that, that they make and a lot, some of our residents, they pay the rent portion themselves too. They, they have their job. So, you know, the sacrifice, we don't try to squeeze every penny out of it. We, we operate within our realm and don't kind of look to see, you know, how much everyone else is getting. And, um, you know, we, we think that that's a fair approach. Thank you. Um, I take it, you pay property taxes? Oh, yes. Yep. And, um, I'm a little confused about the relationship of the landlord and service provider and that you, it was, you felt it was incumbent on you to replace the service provider that was leaving, though I gather that the residents pay a separate fee to the service provider for the services that you render. So does the service provider have an agreement with you as the landlord? How does that, what's that relationship like? Sure. Sure. So we have an agreement, uh, with the service provider on the grounds of, and a breakdown of responsibility, um, you know, the, without getting too involved in, in certain things. I mean, obviously they're involved in the staffing and things like that. The staffing, um, you know, there's things about making the rent, making sure that the residents, uh, bring the trash out, things like that. Just kind of a, a dividing up of, of, of the duties. And then the service provider will also have a service contract with each individual resident that, uh, outlines, you know, what's it, what the costs are and the things like that. So basically it falls upon us because we don't have, it's not a, uh, you know, XYZ agency that has a contract with DDS and, you know, something changed and they're going to bring in another agency that's going to be in a contract with DDS. It fell on the landlord because it's kind of a, uh, a hybrid model here and each individual resident, while they have a contract with the service provider, you can't have nine different service providers in one home. So, you know, we're responsible really for the homes ultimately. And, and, you know, that's why we are so hands-on whoever brought that up, uh, because, you know, really our, our concern, I shouldn't say our concern isn't, but we have to look beyond these 43 residents that are living in our five homes. We have to make sure that it's sustainable and it has been for 15 years, but for the next 43 that come in, you know, when these folks maybe age out or move on and gain independence, you know, we, that, that, that's what our goal is. There is, is, is, is the long-term we have to, you know, obviously serve the folks that are living there and, and then make sure that we're available for, uh, the opportunity for others. Chris, sorry. Can I, can I just jump onto your question?
On to Bill's question, what, if any kind of contractual agreement do you have with the residents beyond just the simple landlord, uh, tenant type of contract? Sure. So we have basically, it's a very basic lease, um, for, for two reasons. Uh, the main reason is, but, but I'll back up. So the lease is a standard, you know, like you're renting an apartment lease, basically. Um, but it all is depending on the resident receiving services through the service provider. We don't want to, if there were an issue that came up and the service provider deemed this person not suitable for the program, for whatever reason, maybe they need more services that they can provide. Maybe there was an issue, whatever it is. If, if the service provider says that's it for the services, you know, we don't want, we don't have somebody living in the home as like a boarding house. Um, so the, the lease is dependent on the resident receiving the support of the service provider. Um, but basically it's just a, a standard one year lease and we don't want to hold, and we'll tell people right up front when they sign it, it's really a piece of paper because we don't want to hold somebody to a lease. If it's, if it's not a right fit for the person, it is not beneficial to that person. If it doesn't work out for whatever reason. Um, you know, some of the residents are moving out for their first time, 22 years old, 23 years old. And, you know, there might be anxiety and it, maybe it's not the right time. Um, so we, we take the view of, we're not going to hold you to a lease because of something like that. And then also, you know, you have the potential of upsetting the chemistry of one house. If you have one kind of person that, that it's not, it's causing disruptions or whatever. So, uh, that's why we kind of take a loose, a loose, uh, look at the lease part, but yeah, it's just a general lease, uh, with the resident. Uh, just one last quick question. How was transportation for the residents handled, uh, to get to their, uh, jobs, their day program, their volunteer activities? That's a great question. And that's, that's a very important question. So I know, I mean, I, I visited the site when we came out in, I think it was in February and, you know, I think I related to everybody at that group. Um, you know, that's transportation, especially for our program where our residents are highly, uh, functioning and independent is, is huge. So all of our homes, the Norwood and Walpole homes are within the MBTA, the ride system. Uh, and that's intentional. So we had in 2018, when we were, um, going for the new service provider, uh, my father-in-law and I, we kind of came up with a growth plan to potentially expand. And we really, in order to provide the level and the quality of service and, and management and maintenance that we, uh, expect of ourselves, we really needed to limit kind of our, uh, geographical circle. And that was really defined by the, the, which, uh, towns were serviced by the ride. Um, because it is very important. Our homes also, the three homes on the cul-de-sac right down the end of the street, you'd send when within walking distance of the big Y supermarket, a, uh, planet fitness, a dollar store, uh, Walgreens pharmacy, you know, pizza and sub shop, um, you know, a couple other things at Dunkin' Donuts, all within walking distance, the residents, you know, walk on their own. Um, and then for transportation to their jobs on a longer distance, you know, they use the ride and then also Uber and Lyft, um, the MBTA, the Lyft, I mean, the ride program has a discounted, um, deal with Uber and Lyft, I believe for the residents also. So, uh, but yeah, it's, it's, in order to, to really maintain that independence, transportation is, is a very key component. Bill Adams, any question?
Maybe just to launch off of that one. So how do you think it would work in Wayland? Would, would the residents use the ride or is that it's kind of in this funny place where it is close to some good activity, but it's also a little bit remote. Right. So Bill, that from, I mean, that I'm, I'm giving you from my point of view for our program and our houses, um, some of the other programs and the folks that the agencies that have come before you, um, you know, they serve a resident with more needs, um, who may not have, you know, the independence to, to go to, uh, you know, the supermarket on their own, walk down, you know, um, our, our homes are on the bus line, the MBTA bus line within walking distance of a commuter rail to some of the residents take advantage of that. Some of them don't, none of our residents, uh, drive cars. Uh, we had one resident over the course of the 15 years that had a car. Um, but it's, um, you know, it's, that's, that's a valid question. And it all depends on, on the program that is in place for our, for this particular program that, that we have at four out of these five houses, uh, that would be an issue, um, being kind of isolated from there for two points. I mean, obviously you can get there, but you know, you lose a little bit when you have to rely on, even if the service provider had a van that they could take you, it's almost like you're locked in. You have to wait till, you know, the 12 o'clock bus comes or whatever to take you to the store to get a few items. And, um, so it, it, I, I think it's, it's a huge component. And, and, and again, that's why we positioned our homes within the ride system because it is very effective, very accessible, um, to our residents and, and at a reasonable cost. And could you imagine doing, um, a project similar to what you do with your existing houses, but for residents with a higher level of need? Um, like, sure. Uh, so yeah, right. So our, our one home, the one that's right above my head, that's in Walpole. That is, uh, again, it's on, it's on a two acre lot set back from a main street, Washington street. Uh, part of the reason that we shifted that off to a different program and a different provider in 2018 is because of the very reasons that we were just talking about. It's in a great location. You know, it's close to, um, route 95, route 27, route one, you know, it's not in a, it's not in a busy area where the home is. It's very, you know, rural where it is, but it's close by for, for folks coming and going, uh, there's a supermarket, but it's a major road that gets there. And a lot of the residents that moved to that house over time wanted to move when an opening came up at the Norwood houses, they wanted to move there. And for the residents that we served, it became, it was just a little too hard to, uh, to get people to kind of take there. It wasn't really a walking spot. Um, so that, that's why we had difficulties there. So we shifted off to Riverside who has a contract with DMH, a 24 hour care. They have staffing three of three or four staff around the clock. It's not, it's not, uh, overnight sleeping staff. It's on duty staff. And there's a little bit more of a turnover. I know, uh, I think you brought it up or somebody brought up at one of the meetings about, you know, cars coming and going. Um, and I'll tell you that there's a rent, there's the neighbor that abuts this house. And it's, if you're looking at that house, they're right to the right of the other side of the trees, his house is set far back too. It's a couple that are retired that are there all the time. And, you know, I am, I have great relationship with them anytime, you know, I'd see him out with chat, he'd invite me over for coffee and things. And I was a little concerned of this, uh, program because it was a little bit different and there was only one issue right in the beginning and Riverside got right over it. It was just somebody that, that didn't know the boundaries and was walking in his backyard. Um, and there's been, I see him, I got, I drive by there just to check on things. Um, even though I don't have a day-to-day, you know, uh, presence over there and, you know, I'll see him from time to time just to ask how he's, how everything's going. He has my cell, he has my email and I know if I don't hear anything, then, then things are going fine. So it's been a little over a year now. Um, and there's been no issues with that program running there either. But again, I, I live in Walpole and I, you know, very cognizant. I did not want to create a problem and I knew that it wouldn't, I mean, the service providers are very well, you know, they, they're well run and, and that's really, that's what makes the difference. Um, I, so, um, can I ask one more question? Oh, oh, by all means, by all means. Well, what, um, what kind of arrangement do you have with the town? Like, did you buy the land and build the house? And that's a pretty big investment, right? So, um, does the town work with you? Do they meet you somewhere in between? And then what sort of arrangements do you have on what you can do with the land? If something changes, like you had mentioned before, you could do a single family if you wanted to, um, how does that work? Sure. Great, great questions. Um, so all of our homes, uh, are privately purchased, uh, no arrangement with the town. It's, you know, two of the homes we built brand new. Uh, the other homes we bought from, you know, a family living there converted them and we needed to get the approval from the town in order to have the number of unrelated residents, uh, living in there, which because of the Dover amendment, it, our service provider is a nonprofit and they provide an educate, uh, an educational service and, and that's how it came in. Um, so the town, you know, the towns were, were all against, you know, they really, you know, it met all the, uh, all the, um, requirements for that. Uh, but it is in regular residential zones. So, you know, it could be, you know, a house at any time. Um, and then like when we switched, when we signed the lease with the new, new program in last November, uh, they still have to meet the same requirements that the other house met. Um, so they just submit to the town and to the zoning board, um, you know, what they, what they do, that they're a nonprofit. This is the type of program we have. This is the contract we have with the state and, you know, just, just to have it on record. So you couldn't just because it is a group home now, um, you know, you couldn't just bring in whatever you want. They still have to meet the criteria. Otherwise you can only have a single family home on that. And last question is, do you have a wait list? Like, do you, when you have an opening, does it fill up pretty quickly or like, what's the demand for this type of service that you offer? Sure. So we like, I'll say it again, I don't have the expertise in the, you know, the clinical end of things. Um, so the service provider is responsible for filling any of the vacant rooms. They have to determine if number one, if, you know, if the person is going to meet the, uh, you know, they're going to be able to provide the services that this person needs. And then they work out all the other things. So that's all handled kind of before. And then, you know, I come into the picture and we draft the lease and, and we go from there. But, um, yeah, so they're responsible. I couldn't just run an ad in the paper tomorrow. I'm dating myself with paper, but, uh, couldn't run an ad online tomorrow, you know, saying room for rent. Um, it's all through there. They do have a wait list now of 30 plus people. Um, you know, a lot of them are young folks and it sounds like a lot, but you know, it's all about the timing too. So if, if, for whatever reason, just, just for sake of discussion tomorrow, you know, 30 residents leave. Okay. And we have 30 openings, probably out of those 30 folks that are on the wait list right now, maybe five to seven, if I'm guessing would be ready for the move. You know, some of them are young, they want to, they're planning for the future, get on the wait list. So they have that opportunity, you know, other ones, you know, it could be financial things that the timing's not right. Um, and it is, I I'll say it again, it's a big move for our residents to move from, you know, the family home that where there's a comfort level and there's routines kind of off on their own into the, into the unknown. So, um, but there is, there is a waiting list.
Thanks. And I forgot to say, thank you for being here and the incredible work you do. Oh, absolutely. Well, Chris, I've got a couple of questions. Um, you described that many, if not all of the residents in your homes are high functioning. Um, is there a reason for that, um, uh, type of, uh, individual with disabilities to be in your homes, uh, as opposed to other, uh, uh, degrees of disabilities? Well, again, you know, I don't want to talk outside of my, my field, but really the real reason Tom is that the, they wouldn't, the service provider wouldn't be able to provide the level of care. If somebody had higher level of needs, had more difficult challenges, the service provider wouldn't be able to meet their needs. That's kind of the basis of it. Um, and if they were, you know, if they, if they've, the residents, uh, kind of fall in between, as I said before, they don't meet the threshold to get 24 hour into a DDS home, um, DDS state funded home, um, and, you know, they don't want to be living at their homes. And it's, in some cases, their parents are aging and not able to, uh, safely care for them. So it's, it's really a matter of, you know, who fits these homes and fits these programs is really based on what type of needs that individual has. That's why, you know, the service provider handles the vetting process and the recruitment, so to speak, um, of any new residents.
And my next question is, Brian Bosia referenced this earlier, uh, but there is a Wayland resident who lives in one of your homes. Is that correct? Yes. Yep. Yeah. He has a section eight voucher. He actually, um, added as an annual inspection today and, um, yeah, his family lives, his parents live in Wayland and, um, yeah, he's been there over six years now and, you know, he goes home and visits his family on the weekend sometimes, but he's, he's living independent. I see him walking around the neighborhood all the time.
Any other questions or comments by members of the committee?
Good. Uh, right. So I say for your next project, you have a lot of learning here with all these projects over time, if you were to develop sort of the ideal next project, how would you want to size it for the number of residents, the room for, uh, the people who provide oversight?
What conclusions have you drawn based on running these? That's a, that's a great question. Um, so again, dating back to around 2018, my father-in-law and I kind of came up with kind of a, a, a growth plan and taking what we've learned from these homes and, you know, seeing what works, what doesn't work and what we would do going in the future. Now, COVID came in 2020, as we all know, you know, that kind of put breaks on first, first off on any expansion, because, you know, a lot of folks, that's not the time that folks feel comfortable living in a communal setting. Uh, a lot of our residents moved back home with their families for a certain amount of time. Um, but I think to really answer your question, uh, we would have, instead of converting a home, we would buy a property that it was either a tear down and a, um, and a new build just because it would be more efficient. Um, so going forward, especially over the past, I think having it being accessible is a huge thing to age in place. Um, so potentially all on a, a single level, um, our wall pole home, the one in the middle above my head, that was just by building code that required a, an accessible ramp front and rear, um, accessible doors, and it has three accessible bedrooms on the first floor and the, and the kitchen's accessible with a first floor accessible bathroom. That was wall poles building cold at the time. The Norwood homes didn't have that. Now, when we went to kind of pivot that home off, that was a huge selling point, not a selling point. Well, I guess selling point. Um, it was huge that it had, that it was accessible, even if it was only the three rooms. So I think, you know, having a home that is fully accessible, all our homes, they have, you know, 36 inch wide doors, but there are stairs and our residents aren't in a wheelchair, but some have mobility issues, balance issues and things like that. So all of that helps. I would definitely incorporate that, but, you know, being able to. Age in place, having accessible units. Um, I, I think that's, you know, planning for the future. That is, that is the way to go. And, and, and for your number nine residents just financially for the size of our homes, uh, seems to, and, and it also, it doesn't go, there's some other homes that are actually larger than ours with 12, 14, uh, residents, which, you know, I think you kind of lose a, kind of a, uh, a family, you lose a little bit. I think it's a little too large in my opinion. So nine in a footprint of a 4,000 square foot, say 5,000 square foot. One of our homes is, um, home is, is a good thing. And that's when it really makes the numbers work for us as, you know, I mean, it is a huge investment. Whoever said that bill, it's a huge investment. It's not something that you set up and we'll, we'll take a run at it. And we've had families that have, we actually had one family that bought a home thinking that, you know, they wanted to, if they could take out the service provider end of it, they buy a home, they get some other families, which, you know, I, I understand the thought process behind it, but something like that, you know, it's easy to do for the five, the nine people that you would have right there. But, you know, to be able to sustain that, that, that's really what, uh, you know, you're not doing it as a service to start something up and then have it fail. And, um, you know, that, that would be the same for us as far as expanding too, if, if it weren't able to sustain it. But, um, for us, for us, it's nine, obviously a DDS home is going to be a five maximum and it's going to be a much smaller home. Um, so it's that.
Any further? Um, everybody else good, right. Well, thank you, you obviously understand about construction, right? So do you think you could ever design a building that could go either way? Like it could be a DDS, um, compliant place, or it could be, um, you know, more of the higher functioning solutions like you have, you might start one way, but have a backup plan if things didn't work out or something with that. Sure, but, uh, well, it, I mean, a DDS home is going to have five maximum. I mean, that that's so it'd be easy to design a five bedroom home and they don't have, uh, the live in, um, apartment like we have in our homes. So it's easy to do that. Now you're saying build a home that has the potential to have nine, nine residents too. And, and if not, you go, that's where you have a, that's the same thing with our Walpole home that sure. You know, you could move five residents in there and have a 24 hour care, but the cost of that building and the structure and the real estate taxes and, you know, boom, boom, boom heating it and everything else that is, you know, that's where it kind of pivots. You have the five or you have nine, um, you know, if the, the, the issue wasn't with that home, wasn't whether we have five people in it or nine, it was really what somebody could lease that property for. And with just five people under contract with DDS, the, there's no agency that is going to be able to meet the, uh, the costs of that, of that home. Now, you know, Riverside, they had a contract and they have nine residents under contract. And that, that's a different story for that.
Great. If there's nothing else, uh, again, Chris, you've been a person with a wealth of knowledge and, and certainly a great experience and you are doing tremendous work and, uh, we're, uh, very fortunate to have you here tonight. Well, thanks for having me. I mean, I know that there's a need out there and that's why I'm here. I mean, anything that you can do, uh, Bill, I don't think you were on when I first said it, but I commended everybody for their work and involving the neighbors is huge because, you know, it is, there's a, there's a big unknown there and what you're going to do with the property and it affects you more than, you know, any rate in the front row. So, um, I commend the approach that everybody took here, the open-mindedness and really just welcoming and wanting to do this. So thanks for having me. Thanks. Thank you very much, Chris. All right. Take care now. Bye-bye.
So, um, well, Whitney was kind enough to put together a draft RFP, which kind of includes some of the topics within exhibit, within the agenda item three. So why don't we move on to minutes and then move on to, um, opposed RFP that's bill Whitney prepared. So therefore I'll consider a motion to approve the committee's minutes from November 6, 2025. We'll hear a second. Any discussion hearing, hearing none, uh, those in favor of the motion, John Thomas. Yes. Bill Adams. Yes. Stephanie. Yes. Brian. Yes. Jean. Yes. Bill. Yes. Tom. Yes. It's unanimous vote. Procal vote. And, um, and by the way, for the record, I'm not sure when I started the meeting, I announced that, um, who was actually present in the meeting. So here in the, in the, uh, in the room, we have the Whitney, Dean Milburn, Diane Bojia, in line, Stephanie Lynch, Bill Adams, John Thomas, and I'm here in the room as well. Tom Fay. Moving on to item, um, five of the agenda.
Discussion in the draft, uh, report and, uh, proposed request for proposal to the Quail and Select Board regarding the committee's recommendations. So, uh, we certainly have heard from many people over the past several meetings, and I really have to commend the members for their diligence in attending these meetings. We're, we're conducting a lot of meetings within a short period of time. We're doing that to, uh, meet with, meet the, uh, committee's charge, the Board of Selectments' charge, really, uh, regarding this committee. And, um, um, so here we are with a draft RFP, which, uh, reflects a good part of, of what we've heard and where, where, where we see ourselves going, uh, I believe, but I want to get comments from, um, committee members. Um, I think the, ideally what we'll do here is we'll prepare a separate report outlining the history of the property and, and the history of this committee and what we've done and who, who we've spoken with. And then our recommendations, uh, would be included in that report and this, and a draft RFP would be, would be attached before it's submitted to the Select Board, no later than February 15th of 2026. So I, I open it up, uh, to comments or questions from members, uh, Jean, any comments or questions on what you see here in this draft RFP? Um, yeah, I'm pretty pleased to see that this is a fairly wide open document in terms of the different kinds of organizations that would respond to this. Uh, uh, we, I mean, we've heard from a lot of different groups with different business models and I, I don't see, uh, anyone, you know, self-selecting out because there's something in this that would cause them. So I assume that was very deliberate, wanting to see the great buffet of wonderful options come forward to the selection. Um, so I think that's a great way to go at it. I'm very pleased to see it. Um, it certainly does give, um, a select board some flexibility, um, that that's one way to look at it, um, um, um, and what, if our committee went a different route and recommended, for example, um, specific individuals with certain types of disabilities, or to use a phrase that we heard earlier this evening, high functioning individuals versus less high functioning, we might be cornering the select board in a way that they don't want to go. So I think keeping it more open, um, um, um, is, is, is, is probably wise. Um, not to mention, you never know what the market is going to be like. This is a tough period. Right. With all tariffs on materials, a lot of developers are looking at their spreadsheets and saying, you know, we don't know how to make this work. Right. Um, so we're up against some bigger obstacles in an ordinary time. Yeah. Stephanie, any comments or questions on the draft RFP? I really, I really liked it too. I was very impressed with it. I, I, I like the fact that it's open, but it also mentions, um, the issue of, of Wayland residents and, um, the, um, you know, trying to incorporate something that would, um, would work with DDS for funding. Um, and, um, you know, it was just, I, I thought it just seemed to, um, cover a lot of the basis that we are, that we're thinking about. So I liked it too. I like the openness of it too. And I really think, uh, we don't, we can't specify to find out what, what's, what we're going to be looking for. So I think being creative and seeing developers, see what they come up with for a development plan is critical. Right. Um, Bill Adams. I have to confess, I haven't had a chance to look at it and I, but I just found it and I will look at it ASAP. Yeah. Yeah. We meet again on the 8th. So, uh, we can continue our discussion. Uh, John, uh, John Thomas. Yeah, I really commend Bill. I think Bill, you did a great job. I appreciate the breadth of inclusionary, uh, language. Um, for example, I mean, I really appreciate the fact you were able to, uh, just sort of leave the door open to a lot of possibilities, including, um, you know, the, the possibility that the lot could be subdivided into, into two separate lots. Um, so yeah, just really nice job.
I, uh, I really do appreciate all the good work Bill here. And it's very thoughtful and thorough and it's capped so much of what we've done. So, um, I see this as kind of a initial document and we have a meeting on the 8th. We have Bob Swain coming in. Bob, uh, his person is associated with high spirit, but that's not why I'm bringing him in. I'm bringing him in because a lot of questions have been asked by this committee on, um, the state's role and, and the agencies involved. And he's very knowledgeable. And also Tony Wolf, the commissioner of, uh, state commissioner for individual disabilities in the state. And she's highly knowledgeable and, and questions came up, uh, uh, during our meetings that I think she'll be able to answer. Um, I continue to push for individuals who are, who are parents in town who have, um, members of their family who might want, uh, to live in, in, uh, such housing, who have disabilities. And, uh, I'm hoping to line them up at some point for a future, future meeting.
So anything further on item number five of the agenda? Okay. Yes. Um, Excuse me. I, I can't hear. I don't know if I'm the only one.
I can't hear either either.
How's that? Any better? Yeah, much better. Thank you. One of the first things I'll put in the RFP is that my court ought to replace.
We'll add that. Thank you. Um, no, I, I, I very much appreciate the feedback and would welcome any additional comments you have. You'll note that I made, uh, I tried to incorporate a lot of, uh, feedback that members of the committee have given, which has been very helpful. I did struggle with this question, pardon me, of, uh, whether it's, uh, a broad solicitation of interest or whether it should be, uh, more specific and particularly, um, when I added this section of bullets, uh, in the first, uh, in really the second paragraph, talking about the kinds of, uh, asking for an identification, rather the type of onsite support. And you can imagine that there would be very different kinds of support needed for people, uh, having, uh, more severe disabilities, uh, personal care, that kind of thing versus, uh, for, uh, as, uh, as we heard, higher functioning people who, you know, are responsible for their own breakfast and lunch and getting to work and so forth. And so, uh, I've tried to, uh, so, so I hope that that second bullet doesn't lead anyone in a particular direction. Uh, so I'd ask, uh, members to look at that. Bill, can I just say, I think you really hit it. I mean, you, you concluded it by saying appropriate to the needs of its residents. I don't know what else. Yeah. Okay. That was just my feedback. I just wanted to mention that. Well, I appreciate that. Um, and, you know, I've also, uh, tried to, uh, lead the, uh, uh, the respondents, uh, with this second paragraph, with these bullets to, to really kind of tell, uh, give them some guidance as to what we're looking for, uh, that it should be long-term, that the building should be accessible, that the, uh, the site should be so developed as to be respectful of the neighbors, uh, that kind of thing. So, uh, uh, I don't know if the order is appropriate, uh, or if there are things that are left out, but again, as we're going to be discussing it at a future meeting, uh, if you have further thoughts, uh, we, I'd welcome that, uh, though, as Tom says, we're likely going to be doing a report. I don't know who will be asked to draft that.
That's, that's item seven agenda that we can't see. But, um, there's, there's a place, uh, to have that discussion there as well. So that's it. So, uh, Jean? Well, yeah, one of the things that's a little tricky about this is that it's, in a lot of cases, going to two entities. These are groups teaming up. So you've got the services people, you've got the people who know how to build a building, you've got the fans people, you've got these teams, and you're not sure exactly how to write this to direct it to each of the voices that are going to be answering. Though, I'm hopeful that, uh, some developers and service providers will get together. Well, yeah, the only way you could do this, they're going to have teams and they're going to have to integrate, you know, so there's some way to make it clear which questions go to the people building the physical planet who provide the service. I would say, I would say, if it, about it, as, as Bill does, people understand that it's four acres of undeveloped land, um, formally developed land, but it's, there's no structures on it. I think that will be clear to those who receive it, that, what's going on, you know, so, um, but, uh, Bill Adams? Yeah, so I, I've obviously never been involved in something like this, but, um, one concern I might have is that if we're not specific enough, people may not rally to put in a full proposal. So I'm just wondering if these processes ever follow a two-step process, like a lot of the grants that we request have an LOI process where people go through an initial screening. So you don't have to waste your time, but you get your ideas out there and you get, met sometimes more ideas and then you can pick a subset of three or four people to really dive deeply and spend the time to put in a full proposal. Um, that might just be one thing to think about because, um, I don't, a lot of developers wouldn't want to put in all the time required if the result, if the likelihood of getting the project supported was small or unknown. So others who have done more of this, I'd be interested to hear from them. Like, how did, how did these things work? I think, I think that's a very important point, Bill. Um, one of the things that, uh, among the, uh, required information that we're looking for are, uh, you know, basically kind of preliminary architectural and, uh, you know, query, will somebody want to spend the time, but particularly the money, uh, at risk, put that at risk at this stage. So, uh, I think that's a, that's a very good question. You know, it's, um, uh, on the one hand, you, you worry about that. On the other, um, if we were to have a meeting with your neighbors, I think the first question would be, show us what this thing looks like. How many buildings, where are they going to be in relation to my property? How's the lighting going to work? What's the landscaping? What's the screening? And, you know, so it's, uh, it's a tricky balance. I will say, uh, Bill Adams, that when we did the RFI, we utilized a vendor that the town uses to assist the town with both RFIs, request information, and RFPs. So before any RFP were to be issued, the select board would use this vendor who specializes in this type of work to fine tune the RFP to, and give, give advice on what you just, on what you suggest.
So that we maximize, um, proposals that we receive. Right. And can the potential submitters, like have a conversation with that company and ask questions and yeah. Okay. Yeah. They can, they can reach out to the town and get clarification too. Nice. Okay. Anything further than on this topic? Well, just one last, uh, is there anyone who would like to, to draft a report that accompanies the eventual, um, RFP draft? I'm not sure we've drawn any conclusions yet. No, no, no, no. I'm not saying we have, but as far as it would be wanted to put, to be the author of that. Oh, okay. When, when we're at the point. It was involved. I mean, what are you envisioning Tom? Well, it can be as long or short as we wish. Right. But basically the report would outline, in my view, would outline history of the property, what our charges, what we did over the past few, few weeks and future weeks before we, um, uh, break up as a committee. And what we recommend in select board relative to this property is pretty much our charge. And the RFP, I think, encompasses pretty much our recommendation. Um, but not, not, not all. And, um, it can include whatever comments and, and, and, uh, and recommendations we like. So why don't you sit on that, give that some, some thoughts on our next meeting and we'll, uh, we'll cross that bridge. Now on our meeting on October 8th, some questions came up that I felt would be appropriate for town council to weigh in on. So the first question that came up was if the town sells or leases the land to an organization or developer, can we require that the property be kept needing things? Um, so town council opined that whether the town sells or leases the land, the town can impose certain terms and conditions as part of the agreement to award the sale or lease to a particular entity who presumably best satisfies the town's criteria is a highly advantageous proposal. Uh, the request for proposal could require that protective proposals, prospective proposals include a maintenance and management plan outlining how they intend to care for and maintain the property, including lawn mowing landscaping schedule, trash and recycling removal, routine maintenance schedule of any buildings, requirement prohibiting outside storage of equipment and a pest control plan. The town will also likely go into town council require that the successful entity to enter into a land development agreement with the town, which can address these concerns. If the town leases the property, the lease can incorporate these maintenance requirements. And failure to maintain the property could be considered breach of the lease, which the town could enforce or terminate. If the town sells the property, the town could incorporate some of these ongoing maintenance obligations into the land development agreement as conditions to survive the sale and to pass it onto the successful, successful proposers, successors in the signs, as long as the successor, the successful entity agrees to such terms. So, um,
town council also find that a successful proposal may not be amenable to such conditions extending 20 to 20 or 30 years. But, uh, uh, from now, but a future select board may have the may not have the appetite to sue the successful proposal because the paint is chipping or the yard is overgrown. So, um, realistic conditions, I think, and extent of maintenance, uh, uh, are things we can, we can require. That's the, that's the quick answer. The second question concerns setbacks. Can any RFP that the town initiates require increased or different setbacks that currently exist? If so, would a, would a LIP be needed to do this? LIP being a tool that is, uh, uh, used when municipalities enter into agreements with developers to, um, address, um, avoiding certain bylaws. I'll put, that's one way of putting it. Anyway, town council opine that the setbacks from property lines are set by the zoning bylaws. So if this property remains in the R60 zoning district, the minimum setbacks applicable to any property, then the R60 zoning district will apply. However, through a request for proposal and land development agreement, which I mentioned above, uh, before, the town can impose additional conditions on the development of the property, which could include a requirement for increased or different setbacks than the underlying zoning requires. Another option would be to consider rezoning or creating an overlay district to include the parcel with the new zoning district having increased or different setbacks requirements for the R60 district. However, rezoning a four acre parcel such as this could present a spot zoning challenge. So it seems to me that the, the, uh, easiest way to do this then would be to include it within the RFP and the land development agreement, uh, if the town chose to have different setbacks than would otherwise be required. The third question has to do with affordable housing. We asked town council to opine on her view of the final article passed at town meeting relative to affordable housing. So town council tells us that the vote under article 30 of the 2025 annual time meeting authorized the land to be transferred to the custody of select board for two purposes, one, the general municipal purposes and two, to convey all or a portion of the property for affordable housing and or shared and living housing for persons with disabilities and or for market rate housing quote, but only if accompanied by affordable or shared living housing. End of quote. As for housing, town council interprets this vote to allow all or part of the property can be can be conveyed from a affordable housing only or shared housing for persons with disabilities only or a combination of affordable housing and shared housing for people with disabilities or a combination of market rate housing and shared living for people with disabilities or a combination of all three affordable and market rate housing and shared living for people with disabilities. The vote prohibits the property from being conveyed from market rate housing only. If anyone has questions for that, let me know and I'm happy to try to further clarify and those were those issues. Any questions on that or comments? Good. All right. If there's nothing else then I'm happy to entertain a motion to adjourn, but if there is anything else people have questions about, feel free. Yes, John. John, just real quickly, I sent you an email about this really late in the afternoon, but you may not have had a chance to see it. I did speak to Deborah Johnson, the DDS area office director. She would be more than happy to participate at a future meeting. And she would also be happy to reach out to Karen Poutre, who's the Metro project coordinator for housing. Great. So I'll respond to your email, John, probably tomorrow morning. Okay. And we'll get that going. That's encouraging. That's great.
Anything further by anybody. Good. Well, entertain a motion to adjourn.
Thank you. Second. Second by Brian. Thank you. Those in favor of the motion, John. Yes. Yes. Joana. Yes. Yes. Dean. Yes. Brian. Yes. Joe. Yes. Tom. Yes. 7-0.