December 3, 2025 – Conservation Commission – Video & Transcript

December 3, 2025 - Conservation Commission

Autoscroll:

am i supposed to call the meeting no i think luca's doing that right okay good i'm happy to uh yeah i was i didn't want to step on your toes shannon but happy i'm shocked and dismayed to discover that once again i'm supposed to play act chair so oh no what i'm happy to i'm happy to help along and share the responsibilities as much as little as you think makes sense that sounds great we do have an accepting audience so we'll you know we're all in this together all right yeah that's right we do have somebody putting a quote uh question in um so i don't know when those get addressed wanting to be seen and heard yeah so i see mr love has posted a question about what did you see um so yeah when the matter comes up sorry uh when the matter comes up mr love or anyone else in the audience that you wish to comment on please just raise your hand uh at that point someone here on the commission will add you to the panel and you'll be able to comment so we'll keep our eyes on the icons there to see anybody raising their hands and let you in at the appropriate time uh with that said it does appear to me that we have a quorum so let's call to order the december 3rd 2025 meeting of the whale and conservation commission uh notices and agendas are posted at least 48 hours in advance of the meetings um one may watch or participate remotely with the meeting link that can be found on the town's website and i will also add that pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 this meeting is being conducted via remote means in accordance with applicable law the meeting may be recorded which will be made available to the public on way cam as soon after the meeting as is practicable all right so with that said as i mentioned we have a quorum so we are ready to roll um turning to the agenda item one uh public hearings 1a is a public hearing to consider the adoption of regulations in accordance with section 5 of the stormwater and land disturbance bylaw which is chapter 193 of whalen's bylaws copies can be viewed on the conservation department webpage and there's a link available on our agenda uh linda as i understand it we are still waiting for comments from town council so we're going to continue this hearing until we have those yes so we sent those off oh gosh a week 10 days ago or so and um as there was if you see in your copies in the draft or the what i'm calling the final draft we we called out three different questions highlighted in blue for them just to make sure um that we're we're following the rules and the laws of every that we need to um there's also some question about exemptions whether or not we can call those out in the bylaw rather than if i mean call those out in regulations if they're not in the bylaw so that's that's i mean that's an easy fix if we just if we have to pull those out so okay but that's where it stands right now i know we had some um comment letters that came in in the last couple of days um i think shannon received one luke received one then i received i think there was a group one that we received and i think i just want to um i mean this might be a good time for lisa too to join in um that one of the comments related to a tree bylaw and yeah i think it would be much cleaner if we had a stormwater bylaw and a tree bylaw having two separate things you know as having a combined one so there was a meeting a week or so ago with um gene milburn and lisa and i and sean and we talked about the possibility of putting in a tree bylaw for as a warrant article sponsored by the conservation commission for this coming town meeting so i don't know if lisa you want to you want to update us on that because you had a meeting yesterday with yeah so i i met with gene who you know sent the conservation commission um you know the recommendation that she would like us to sponsor such article and i know linda that prior to me joining the commission i think there was at least one if not more comments um from the public that that might be a good idea anyway um and so um i don't think she had realized that the chapter 193 draft was updated and available um so she reviewed that and she's helping to kind of put together some text for a potential bylaw that we can put forth in a subsequent meeting here again it's just a text for submission of an article and see where it goes from there and drumming up support but the idea we talked about yesterday is looking at the current language in the draft on um the tree replacement requirements things like that and try to try to stay consistent with that um and whether or not it becomes approved and it's entirely separate you know it's it's future event but it is something that has come up in comments um in the past and so you know hopefully this can start to address that but i think linda the idea is we're very far along with 193 um this will be continued i think for another meeting until we hear back from town council but the idea is that we still want that uh tree language in there um until if and when we have a tree bylaw right so we want to have some protections for the trees like we have today lisa with whom was that discussion that you had on the tree i'm sorry lisa just want to say i'm sorry mr lewis just can we please just uh follow the rules of procedure if you would just put any questions through uh through the chair and we'll be happy to pass this along but we're not yet um opening this to publish on it oh no luke you i guess you missed out on this cliff is a member of the conservation commission now he was appointed i know i totally missed out on that i apologize to all of us none of us sorry i'm sorry i didn't realize don't apologize it was news to all of us because um nobody told the commissioner sean i found out from carol plum that that cliff was getting who that cliff was getting appointed it was it was not advertised whatsoever so um i think we're all kind of surprised last two weeks ago when you when cliff joined the meeting we're like who's this so cliff sorry uh i take that back please ask lisa whatever questions you have and well and welcome by the way thank you very much um the the question we just was was questioning with whom you met on this tree thing uh it was gene milbourne milburn rather sorry i mispronounced her name who had um who had suggested a separate tree bylaw as a comment and wanted to provide support for the conservation commission and asked if the conservation commission would support tree bylaw so obviously that's something we would have to agree to at a subsequent i understand is she a resident or is she she's a resident yes i think believe a long-time resident she's served on other committees and okay active in the town that's all thank you yep so i think the idea is we'll put it on a subsequent meeting um before article submission deadlines and review it together and and go from there right so it's really just a starting point um so the timeline is pretty tight i think i just i received was an email yesterday or so that with the schedule for town meeting and i believe more articles are due january 15th so um is that posted on the website yet because it when i checked the other day it was still last year's and i could have missed it but no like i said i i have to say that that email either came out monday or tuesday and and i don't remember which but um yeah but like i said this it was it's timely because i think um we've had a number of comments about um having a separate tree bylaw i know this has been attempted before i think by the planning board and it wasn't it wasn't successful so um and that's why we're going to continue to still have the tree information in ours and and until such time if if and when i know a tree bylaw does get passed at town meeting so if it doesn't work this year if the timing's really off and we don't get all the final language in um before the warrant articles are due we'll just have to put it off for another year maybe so okay okay um all right so i guess then uh we're just going to be continuing this to our next meeting right linda and hopefully we'll have feedback from town council at that point yeah so that will be december 17th is our next meeting uh i would take a motion then to continue this public hearing uh regarding the proposed adoption of regulations pursuant to chapter 193 to december 17th after 6 30 p.m are we not going to hear today from the public or you want to postpone that if we're continuing the hearing cliff i i think really we should wait and do it all in one fell swoop that would be my that would be my preference so we didn't have oh it does look like we have a few people dialed in and i'm not sure if that's if they were expecting the hearing tonight well if anybody wants i don't see any hands raised so all right fine i i uh hear you all so if anybody uh who is an attendee wishes to speak to this and i see mr love has raised his hand um i don't have the capability it doesn't appear to move anybody over um linda do you have that or does somebody else i'm not i'm not a host i know where would it say host i don't think i know where does it say anything about a host on mine either could could i be is robby on robby are you listening hmm i don't i have no idea if i could do that or not so there's gotta be a way will that be problematic for anybody dialing in for the other agenda items we're yeah we're gonna need somebody to be the who's actually let me let me let me take a break and i'll go find robby and make sure he assigns one of us who wants to be host then okay i'm happy to be the host yeah sure if that uh makes sense i'm happy to to do that i might try to google it offline because just to see if one of us i'm so used to using teams and microsoft i think when i first logged on i think i might have seen that barbara was the host ah i don't know but i'm not sure how one becomes the host uh or hands that responsibility off yeah it is barbara um barbara if you can do you know how to look at the participants um like i think let's see if let's see what linda comes back with maybe we can just have that switched is robby the it guy in the town building uh yeah i believe so so it's possible as a panelist we might be able to invite a panelist i'm just going to click this invite and see oh nothing happens when i select it yeah i can get as far as doing either none of my options are correct no i think i've done it before and i'm fairly certain if i'm remembering correctly you essentially have to go you know whoever so mr love has raised his hand so as the host you kind of go and can click next to his name and then sort of allow him onto the panel but i think it's the host is the only one to do that that's right that's that's the trick is is being the host so i think i don't know barbara if you're able to do this but i think on the bottom of our screen there's participants and i think you might be able to choose invite and but i don't i don't know i don't know how it works without having the actual access to it apologies to those of you who wanted to speak yeah patience yeah well and as i was getting at earlier the hearing will be continued so there will will be an opportunity uh even if we can't iron this issue out tonight i mean and the hope is that it would be at our next meeting in two weeks if the town council has right and and there i mean not to go back over ancient history but this isn't the first hearing on this you know we've right there's been a lot along this has been a long time coming so uh at any rate but we have to figure this yeah so we need we need to get this figured out it's nice weather i like the cold well yeah it's a hard living in new england if you don't deal with the cold weather very well you're gonna like it a whole lot more in the next couple of days i know i'm looking forward to it hope all the animals have found their burrows though it's early for it but oh linda's back or no no no no linda something's happening here i just found robbie so i think he's i told him to assign you as host robbie can you hear me robbie i i can't let me do it that's true right now robbie we need to we need to have the ability to be a host here if you can't be the host okay if barbara logs out and logs back in would that do the trick so we might as well add it for whatever you want i think that might be if barbara logged out i think someone else will become the host so barbara can you try closing the zoom so you want me to shut my machine off i think you just exit zoom and then you can log back in just give it a minute to log back in and what should happen is someone else should become the host so and so yeah leave your end look at the bottom right corner where it says leave when you move your mouse very interesting i guess we all did you all get logged out yeah but now um but now the uh wayland zoom meeting manager is the host so he can make someone else a host did that work yes so who who is that robbie can you make um we decided there isn't really much we get uh shannon the host now and they passed a formal petition you just said oh luke that works the host now oh okay great great great okay um yes luke is on we're all back everybody's here i'm hoping there were people that were delved in car carl came back sounds like this echoes no that's the beauty of being the host i can i can mute people okay uh all right so we're all back uh good mr love i apologize for that i'm going to allow you now an opportunity to speak here mr love i can see your name uh it looks like you're muted but you should be able to speak hello can you hear me now yes we can if you would please just identify yourself for the record sir my name is carl james love i live at 70 rice road in wayland um to the uh commission i believe the plan to remove a forest of 500 trees mr love may i just i'm sorry to interrupt you sir are you looking to speak to the draft chapter 193 regulations or are you looking to speak to a particular project sir oh um i'm i'm sorry i'm i'm uh looking to speak to the project um of the coptic church at 169 road road okay so what i thought that's what this meeting was about i'm sorry well so that that's going to be a hearing later in the meeting it's actually going to be a joint uh hearing with the planning board so you there's going to be a separate zoom for that um a different link if you look at our agenda you'll see uh i think right at the top of the second page there's an announcement that essentially we'll be leaving this meeting and going to a joint meeting with the planning board there's a zoom link there okay so i'll have to leave leave the zoom of this meeting to get to that one that's correct and that's going to be starting at eight o'clock and that when that hearing comes up that will be the time that you'll want to make this comment um so that it's in so that it's in the record of that hearing because if you say it now it won't be thank you okay you're welcome you're welcome all right uh okay seeing no other hands um i would now take that motion to continue the public hearing on the uh proposed adoption of regulations pursuant to chapter 193 to december 17th after 6 30 p.m so moved thank you shannon do i have a second second thank you lisa all right a roll call vote lisa oven yes jenny brown yes jenny brown yes clifford lewis yep yes jenny fisher yes and barbara howe yes and i am also a yes okay uh very good moving right along 1b 108 lakeshore drive this is dep file number 322-1042 this is a continued hearing on the notice of intent filed pursuant to wayland's wetlands and water resource protection bylaw that's chapter 194 of our bylaws and the state wetlands protection act submitted by melissa haley for the prior unpermitted renovation work and completion of said work at 108 lakeshore drive in wayland massachusetts the proposed work is within 100 feet of dudley pond and the property is shown on assessor's map 46b as parcel 35 linda we received new information prior to the last meeting or on the day of the last meeting i think so um it was it was continued for today so you would have the time to review and and take a look at the new information that was provided by the applicant and the representative so i think doug dylan's on to represent the applicant yep hello good good evening uh commission um dylan representative for the project wetland scientist from goddard consulting um as linda just said um i was given the plan kind of you know little under the wire and you know got them like it was like day of or you know that most day before the meeting but you know here we are now um so if just share the screen we've had the engineer respecify a number of areas as um to be replaced with impervious let me just make this we all see that i just want to make sure okay yes perfect um so there are a couple of uh clerical kind of uh oversights with the prior submission of the plans such as a lack of inclusion of the 30-foot no-disturb buffer uh from the lineage of the lake shore that has now been added um there were some additional notes um around the phrasing of the uh proposed swale areas and i believe the sort of callouts of a uh a wildlife passage towards this area of my mouse cursor showing up have been uh further clarified and emboldened to uh um highlight that that uh change um just to reiterate here so we have a wooden deck patio and you know a number of other sort of uh landscape hardscaping features which are done you know unpermitted i realize it's been quite a while um i do have a presentation graphic which i would also like to share it's not a formal plan per se but it is uh sort of just a visual aid so here in the blue i have identified areas which were and still are part of the prior building uh envelope right so the overall shape of the building and the overhang of the second story has not changed the shape of the detached chicken coop has not changed um as well as the uh there's always been a walkway of an impervious type you know to the the right of way from this property so that's called on your screen i'm trying to find what you're talking about not uh i can't see it i've seen it you're not seeing it i can't see anything i can only see the panelists but if you go to the top and you see there's tabs up top is there one called doug dylan's screen next to webinar you might need to minimize the panelists to pop out content i think we've got are you good cliff yeah i'm good okay yeah we're good um the prior and are in kind of building envelope is uh i box that out in the blue of the property the green are areas which are uh landscaped areas and have not been you know their their land use has not been changed they were prior landscaped or planting beds of some sort you know they may have been uh replanted but you know they were and at the moment are uh landscape beds uh and the red are areas which i have identified specifically which were not impervious and which now contain the unpermitted um modification to the property and that includes over this area a deck um an enlargement of this kind of patio area here um there were some smaller kind of uh cutouts and kind of terraces that i notice uh alongside this uh leg of the property right just like some kind of it's very steep over here so they uh put some granite sort of uh those there and then the large landscaping uh hardscape wall to the road as well as there are these two granite curbs here as well so um primarily you know closest to the resource area we have the deck and the large patio um there through uh realtor photos from realtor.com i will admit i had to kind of go back and count the existing like way way back uh impervious um and it would appear that these purple areas you know approximate the prior concrete patio you know around 2018 or 19 when those photos may have been taken right so there was a uh kind of a concrete landing from the upper stairway here down to the you know now lower patio and then there was a skirted sort of concrete apron perhaps uh three to four feet wide on this northern edge of the house wall here that looks like it may have uh interchanged and kind of hooked up for the uh walkway up front um oh to mitigate for that do you have those photos doug so you can show yes yes let me here are the photos from a realtor listing um the prior condition so you see that there were some you know standard 18 by 18 concrete sort of pavers and you know as i said the landing from the upper kind of stairway um all together this area uh i ran some sort of estimates and you know linda has a copy of my very ugly math approximates about 55 square feet here and then on the other side you can see there was a walkway here which again without having an existing prior conditions done i would estimate this you know at about three or four feet wide based on the width of this you know door frame here right and then that ran the length of the side of the house um the side of this house is called out on the um old sort of a survey plans like the historical ones as being uh 18.2 feet so seeing as it goes the near full length of that uh we can take kind of the you know nearest approximation you know 16 feet by um you know four feet and call that 64 and then you know adding the top of this uh paver sort of uh planting bed here we're not seeing that photo you gotta switch to the other okay oh sorry probably now that pop over the other side yeah there you go lisa i saw you i can see it now yeah okay okay perfect um yeah so this as i said wall although on the old plant 18.2 so i had to approximate you know it comes a little short here so you know looks like it runs a little further call that 16 feet by approximately four feet which is a very standard walkway width and using the top of your frame as a uh sort of measuring block right estimating this at four by 16 so that's you know approximately 64 square feet of uh prior concrete impervious that was there and the top of this uh sort of like block like planter bed kind of area that was here um about three quarters of a foot by uh about six foot so another four feet and you know up block here so all together it's about uh 80 ish square feet um so that being said it's important to note that's that's previous conditions okay for yes yes and and this is how it was when i did site visits because there was work and um we did closure on this at some point prior to the house selling and um i don't i don't have any post conditions but other than looking at that um that color drawing that indicates that pretty much all of that is now impervious that's under the house on the red house on either side of the house except for maybe one small strip next to the deck is that true yeah the uh the border with 106 are you yes yeah that strip is still vegetated i believe there are some uh um cedar trees or some sort of arborvities there last day last i recall um so running up that shoulder there is a border um screening vegetation for the the properties there um so as a reminder this was an enforcement order none of this work as i know because cliff hasn't been here none of this work was permitted through the conservation commission this whole this whole house is rehabbed and all the work was done um without a permit from conservation um all the impervious stuff so did they get a building permit the building permit says interior only and on the building permit so it never made it to conservation so can i also the building commissioner approved that yeah even though it said interior only oh my god can i ask a clarifying point if you go back to the color map that you had the red did you say that like the blue is supposed to be pre-existing impervious that was the shape of like what the house was and is like the they didn't add an addition onto the house so the house box is the same right from the bird's eye view and they also had a um like a what was probably like a some sort of a chicken coop or like a root
something in below here i feel like it doesn't really capture the fact that like underneath that deck there was clearly enough sun and rain to create like growable conditions for plants and that those are like more newly impervious as well so like there was yeah an impervious underneath that that blue right next to the shore and then that also is you know the new impervious with that that could also be just as easily colored red in this case so we because that's captured under the roof the umbrella of the roof like the roof encompasses its own sort of impervious footprint so if you know i were to have to count what's below that right like i would be double counting the same square foot right that exists under the roof and then under you know what has been tiled so like in theory right there would be a property that i could have more impervious square footage or coverage by percent than its actual total lot area so when i'm working with the engineer i'm trying to capture like oh you know this percent impervious and you can't really double count the same square foot as being impervious twice yeah but but there was like soil and grass that was down there that has been unpermitted um it's basically paved over so just to sort of highlight that no i am i'm fully aware that i just you know like when we look at it he engineered charts if you know from the bird's eye view perspective right he gives me the shape and you know that's the shape like a you know can't have like a lot that would have a hundred and three percent impervious you know i mean kind of thing like it's just we're not we're not interested in the house we're only interested in the footprint of the at the ground level so you know that that's what the difference is so right and i would just add that you know there's there's the calculation of impervious which i i understand what you're saying mr dylan on that but then there's also the issue of alteration um and i think that's more what shannon and linda are getting at here right there you can there was still alteration within our jurisdiction yeah absolutely i mean you know the permit should have been obtained like that's you know not a not a debate at all um i it's a very small lot like the workable area you know they on the other side of this road is technically part of this lot but you know any any of those uh members here who've been there you know it's super steep and not really usable or workable so the actual workable portion of the lot is this kind of chunk here and that amounts to about uh 2500 square feet all in all um leading me unfortunately very little room to um well we we've we've dealt with many small plots along deadly pond and we have always required a that they leave it's usually 15 feet but leave something you can't build right up to the water no i'm just lamenting the fact i don't have the right footage to well a lot of this these lots are very small yeah i think it and and we don't allow them to build right up to the resource the either 15 feet in one spot and maybe um more in another but you you've taken it all that and that to say barbara probably means that this is the kind of work we probably wouldn't have permitted we would never permit this never how is it that the building should be removed why why did the building department not let us know i don't think i can answer that you know that's it's uh it's yeah i mean look i i understand everyone's frustration with how we're here but i i guess i would just say we're here so let's yeah looking backwards doesn't help us all that much i think let's try to stay forward focused here i think the commission is to decide what they would permit or if there's some mitigation that can be used in or can be included to you know mitigate for all the work that was done so and in addition the scope of work is also asking to rebuild the retaining wall all the way around the edge of the pond so again a concrete wall um along the along the pond edge and then there's some work across the street or what was it a retaining wall that you were putting in on the where the parking area is she wants to just um extent like shore up the wings of this kind of a concrete um apron sort of structure behind the uh what is essentially the parking area for this property it already looked like in the photo there's a retaining wall so is that maybe i'm not understanding it's just going to get enlarged the upland retaining wall or the lakeside retaining wall one where the carves were yes yes yeah she wants to rework it's you know a lot of this stuff was done 20 30 years ago and the homeowner the applicant would like to um and further so who was that sorry i i apologize oh hi no um i just wants to kind of further and finish the um renovation uh sorry what were you about to say shannon i was just gonna ask like since we are moving on to this one if she's also asking to actually remove that garden along the side and just turn it into stone i as i was there so i recall that as you go along this pathway and there's an area that has a lot of little plants that currently says remove all vegetation for stone garden yeah yeah yeah yes we talked about this i mean the whole reason this came to my attention to begin with was because the retaining wall that was put in the front there so that kept all the all the storm water that comes down the slope from um lakeshore hits that retaining wall and there's a real direct impact right around the other side of the retaining wall it's it's just completely rutted out there from from the water and that again the retaining wall is not doing any any anybody any favors whatsoever where it is and putting it putting the rock wall the rock stone wall right behind it i don't i don't you know that's not where the water ends up the water ends up to the left of that retaining wall not not directly behind it yeah so as you just said current uh saving job you know is such that you know whatever drainage you know may have gone to this all sides or sort of uh to the front of the property um sort of splashes up against the the landscape uh retaining wall a lot of retaining walls on the property um and kind of just worked its way you know into the front sort of walkway and and kind of um against the house itself and is causing water damage damage and water problems to the uh house and various uh other features um look to that end yes uh still proposed is the stone garden um we can definitely get some hydrophytic vegetation in there but in order to solve the drainage problem on the property we do need to get that water somewhere um it that's the that seemingly where the water wants to go at the moment down this sort of uh shoulder and riding the rocks there would prevent you know erosion and channelization and you know just sort of gullying out of that and provide you know some amount of recharge or in storage you know while the water is there um the other thing is the septic system for this property although these boxes here and this uh attached red line you know i would love to specify a dry well to you know eat up a lot of this uh sort of runoff here but it you know you can't install a dry well next to a uh septic system um and there's also a hesitancy to you know install necessarily like sort of very uh anything that has too great of a root system due to it being essentially on top of the septic tank of the of the house where's the where's the septic uh do you see these uh gray boxes right here i see the tank and chamber where's the field yep that is right here at the sort of crook of the parking area well i see it's pumped to the other side yeah yeah and then the neighbor has a similar sort of setup right and so this is the that's all the bigger the leaching field is that little circle yeah yeah i mean these are houses from the 30s but i it's my understanding that it's the leach field that you need the setback from from stormwater you need it you need a setback from from uh from septic tanks i do believe uh it's the case at least you know with the tank being specifically right here um my understanding is that you can't have like too deep of a uh infiltration system like right next to a septic tank well you couldn't do that anyway because groundwater levels are really high there i mean you can only put it in as a surface feature for stormwater management yeah and hence the you know at the three to six inches uh um i was about to say the other thing is we have also specified now to remove the current impervious patio and replace with a um i forget the exact product name but the one that has the um sort of uh
grasps or gravel center that you can put in it i know there's a specific product name but you know you know permeable paver this area right here approximately 154 square feet and again in this crook next to where the uh wooden deck has been installed which is the other remaining um sort of like very solidly kind of hardscaped area um imperial pavers to you know the sum of approximately 23 square feet so together uh 177 square feet uh would it be possible to put in some sort of a facility that would catch the storm water and then pump it back up the hill where it could be dispersed well that i don't know i'm not familiar with systems like that and it doesn't sound too uh cost effective for a property of the size and you know it great is so steep it's very rocky it's kind of there's not much topsoil as well like it's just kind of rocky and there's some you know good trees growing there and i i don't know how well that would actually be for um infiltrating so the leash field seems to be okay there no that's like low a um the parking area like pavement like after this this retaining wall it goes the grade changes is extraordinarily steep but the the the leach field is underneath the retaining wall it's almost yeah um it's like a leaching pit dry well again i'm not the you know septic engineer or you know an engineer in any right but um yes it is right there you can see the cover if you ever you know happen to drive about this property it's right there under the sort of uh uh gazebo here would have helped approve that i we're not proposing to install or alter the septic it's just called out because it's a very limiting factor on this property and you know i have no comment or you know knowledge or information on the design you know of the septic system itself other than the locations and the setbacks from those sort of uh pieces respectively so your proposal to put in impervious papers is that's still hardscape that's still alteration you know that's that's still i don't i don't know how that's improving the situation over what you have now um yeah in our stormwater regulations you know pervious papers um are also are considered impervious because at some point you know they they they don't they don't function anymore if they're not maintained you know and uh as pervious and so i'm not i'm not convinced that that's that's really an improvement over the existing conditions right now we could certainly get an o and m plan for that and sort of uh create a condition for that if that would sort of uh swing things further one way or another um but so you're saying that the the homeowner is not willing to give up any of the impervious that they put in without a permit
below the roof line like that is pretty tough just because there's no ability to mitigate that uh i mean there is they could remove that especially since we probably would have never permitted it in the first place like the it we it could be removed and turned back into soil you know as barbara says like normally there's all there's always some sort of vegetated buffer and there's no vegetated buffer here and even in that patio area like linda says instead of removing it and putting in herbaceous they're going to just put it in and put in pavers um and you know it it also occurs to me like since that erosion up top is caused by the retaining walls that shouldn't have gone in that seems like sort of a self-inflicted injury there and it seems like a solution could be to remove the retaining walls that are causing the issue and work from there to come up with a bit you know with with something that makes more more sense hydrologically especially since the current solution and seems to involve removing some of the last few pieces of remaining vegetation in that in that bed and putting in crushed stone um which you know includes vegetation within that 30 foot no disturb which you know is kind of the opposite of what we love to see here so if the retaining walls are causing the issue and the retaining walls shouldn't have been put in in the first place maybe removing the retaining walls is the solution and then creating you know an appropriate vegetated buffer up on the shore edge
i think i think it would be helpful to have the homeowner on the phone call too because i mean she's the one who has to make the the the decision exactly what you know i mean i think it'd be important to have her input on on how you know how to improve this property so that it it's you know it's something that the commission could permit right yeah i can certainly circle back with her and and like kind of really determine what is critical and what is not critical and we can just go from there yeah it it seems like i don't know how my fellow commissioners feel but it it does feel like a risky precedent to set where somebody does whatever they want right on a pawn edge that would never be permitted ordinarily and then just stonewalls saying we're not going to change that therefore they ultimately get their way just by sheer stubbornness and refusing to do like you know there's a reason these are in place they protect these watersheds um so it like it the the total lack of flexibility to put in the buffers that should be there and you know it doesn't seem like a great precedent i think i totally agree with that shannon for what it's worth i think that's exactly right uh what you just said um that that's the way i'm looking at this i think just well i guess let's pause i i think everybody's had an opportunity to sort of chime in here linda is there anything else you wanted to comment on or say um while we're here talking about this no just repeat what i said before i mean if we're going to make a decision i think it would be important to have the the homeowner's input and make it a little bit instead of going back and forth you know um from from hearing to hearing um is it possible to invite them to come to this to the next hearing when is your i can write that down the 17th 17th yeah i will and just in case oh the one after that's not oh that's new year's eve right no we're not it's not until the first week of january which is i don't have the date in front of me i believe that would be the seven seven yeah exactly my birthday
just just the way you'd want to spend your birthday i'm sure you have a place here because you you weren't there on the original one you're coming in after the fact aren't you yeah this is i was uh hired to put this through after everything was uh already done all right um commission members any other comments uh for mr dylan here this evening can i just make a comment for the commission we we need to look into how this could possibly have ever been permitted and and inspected i mean no building commissioner should should have ever gone out there looked at this and not had a timeout it's entirely possible that they did the building they did the interior got it inspected and then did whatever they wanted to the hardscape after that sometimes happens yeah i would be curious to see the order of the operations on that one too yeah but it's a good question but um yeah and a good good point clip for sure any other comments for uh mr dylan if um if you wouldn't mind pulling that plan back up because i was trying to follow what's already in placed and it sounds like there's a few things still to be done that the owner would like to do and so i'd like to understand what's already there and i just want to write it down for my notes since we'll continue this for a future uh going meeting can you see that back again yes thank you so yeah so the still proposed are the extensions or expansions of the upper upland retaining wall okay so that what's circled in the okay you know it's a replacement of the retainer yes the place the other lake side retaining wall uh which is currently a concrete block uh construction uh retaining wall um it was just uh uh dilapidated and it had been replaced uh prior i think it was uh 20 25 years ago now you know it's just it is it is falling apart so she wants to have that replaced as well and the patio it looks like there's a request there yeah that was uh replaced with um impervious okay or sorry but with permeable replace it's already been replaced are they are going to replace them what's there now hardscape uh hardscape uh i don't know if you've seen replaced with hardscape it's already been replaced with hardscape yeah let me see if i can grab some of the more recent photos for you and it's and i apologize it's possible i missed kind of the overlay on what's existing and what's pre-existing conditions what was done without a permit and what is still yet to be done um it's a busy it's a busy plan lisa there's a lot going on there yeah we have it all we have it all in the office too so okay over that it might be easier to see thank you okay thank you yeah it's like a car i don't want to yeah i don't want to take up everyone's time because i don't i wasn't here in earlier meetings right i've recently joined the commission so i can i can go stop at the office linda yeah yeah that'd be easier okay okay um i'll just give you one picture for the road here for you just so you can kind of get a visualization um like that's the style of sort of landscape that's you know obviously the lake edge that's the kind of falling like you know retaining wall there and the other side is this similar style uh bluestone uh paper patio this is the southern edge of the property looks that the property line is like at this stair rail so these stairs are not on the property just to kind of further cue in just to the orientation of the property um okay thanks uh any other comments or questions commission members
no okay uh anyone from the public i'm not seeing any hands raised or anything like that um all right so yeah i think you know just i would just say mr dylan kind of in summary i i don't want to speak for the commission but i think it's been a pretty consistent theme that you've heard tonight that we're really looking for some mitigation um some you know for them the app for the property here to make amends sort of for what's happened and and um a lot of what's being shown on this plan you know as you've heard a couple times replacing impervious with pavers um the stone garden like that that's not what we're looking for um in satisfying that you know those requests so um i would just encourage you to have a conversation with your client between now and the 17th hopefully you can impress that upon them um and then uh as linda said i think it would be helpful for the for the property owner to to attend on that so we can have that conversation directly because i appreciate it's a tough spot you're being put in here as the as the middleman running back and forth so um with that said why don't we continue this to the december 17th hearing if mr dylan for whatever reason uh your client can't be here that night and we need to push it to january you can let we can let linda know um but for now i would take a motion to continue this hearing under both chapter 194 and the state act to december 17th sometime after 6 30 pm so moved thank you shannon do i have a second second thank you lisa uh roll call vote please shannon fisher yes lisa obin yes clifford lewis yes barbara howell yes jenny brown yes i too vote yes uh all right we will see you in a couple weeks all right thank you for your time everybody thank you have a good evening all righty uh uh okay we got a half hour here so let's get another one in um 1c 397 boston post road this is russell's garden center dep file number 322-1048 this is a continued hearing on a notice of intent filed pursuant to weyland's wetlands and water resource protection bylaw and the state wetlands protection act uh it was submitted by dan skein for at for the after the fact paving work and installation of stormwater management at 397 boston post road and 99 pelham island road in whalen massachusetts the proposed work is within the 200 foot riverfront area and the 100 foot buffer zone of bordering vegetated wetlands and the property is shown on assessor's map 23 parcels 004 and 015 linda the applicant has requested a continuance until our next meeting okay and i would take a motion to continue this hearing under both chapter 194 and the act to december 17th after 6 30 pm so moved thank you shannon do i have a second second and thank you lisa a roll call vote please shannon fisher uh yes lisa alvin yes clifford lewis yes barbara howell yes jenny brown yes and i too vote yes all right uh 1d 67a loker street this is dep file number 322-1055 it's a public hearing on a continued notice of intent filed pursuant to whalen's wetlands and water resource protection bylaw and the state wetlands protection act it was submitted by matt o'connor for the demolition of an existing barn and construction of a six unit compact apartment facility at 67a loker street in whalen the property is shown on assessor's map 48 parcel 42 and it's located within the 100 foot buffer zone of bordering vegetated wetlands and the 200 foot riverfront area linda the applicant has requested a continuance till our next meeting yes to the next meeting okay uh i would then take a motion to continue this hearing under chapter 194 and the state act to december 17th after 6 30 pm so moved thank you shannon do i have a second please barbara and lisa were arm wrestling for that one there um we'll give it to barbara uh roll call vote please shannon fisher yes elisa obin yes clifford lewis yes jenny brown yes barbara howell yes and i also vote yes okay um so the other public hearings we have listed here as i mentioned previously are going to be uh taken up at 8 pm in a joint meeting with the planning board so we will uh move along here to 3a uh this is a public meeting for the property at 230 concord road file number d-1051 this is a request for determination of applicability filed pursuant to whalen's wetlands and water resource protection bylaw and the state wetlands protection act it was submitted by joe de lomba for the replacement of a covered porch and construction of a deck and walkway at 230 concord road in wayland the property is shown on assessor's map 07 lot 06 the proposed work is within the 100 foot wetland buffer zone linda i don't see anybody that we have on for this project is there anybody in the participants that i mean the attendees and we have no nobody's no attendees at the moment i'm a little concerned they could have looked at the agenda seeing that they were slated for after the big eight o'clock chunk yeah it might not even have occurred to them that they would be on so soon entirely possible we can move to 12 moral drive and brian nelson is on and yes let's let's do that and i think you may well be right channon so we can circle back later on um okay so moving along here to agenda item 4a stormwater lander disturbance uh for 12 moral drive that is file number swld-155 linda i'll let brian nelson provide a um the commission with the project details okay good evening mr nelson good evening uh for the record brian nelson with metro west engineering uh is it okay if i share my screen yes certainly thank you i think that should be loading um if you can all see that let me know yes all right great so we're here tonight to present a um project it's located at 12 moral drive um and on this board uh the property is located in the center of the presentation plan north is heading straight up to the top of the page uh moral drive is running from the bottom left of the plan to top right uh in a northeasterly direction and we are about 500 feet or so south of the intersection of moral drive and west plain street our lot has just over 20 000 square feet uh we're in a 20 000 square foot uh residence zone and bounded basically on on all sides and across the street by residential properties of similar size or smaller um lake road is is located behind us um and i've kind of combined the two boards uh onto one and what i'd like to just kind of point out uh not necessarily the focal point but the existing house is shown in a dashed red line in this area um it's basically a two-story um house there's an existing driveway um located right here the two garage bays located in this area um the the lot is very flat topographically there's high point elevation 186 at the northeast corner in the backyard um elevations basically a relatively flat across the majority of the site and then there's a little bit of a bump kind of at the street line where we drop about a foot or so but overall about um three feet of topographic relief across the site there are no wetlands on this site or within a hundred feet of the site um and what we're here to talk about or present tonight um just one other statistic on the existing conditions um we are just under 3 800 square feet of existing impervious area um and what we're here to present is basically removal of the existing house again which is shown in red there's a second story deck that comes out here construction of a new house which is shown in the brownish color and i'm outlining that perimeter now um moving the driveway from the southerly side up to a side-loaded garage facing north um the house has a footprint of about 33 000 to 3 100 square feet um driveway located uh again on this side a small terrace located out back which is shown in gray here and new um subsurface sewage disposal system in the southerly part of the lot we've got our septic tank here distribution box and then three leaching lines which are shown in magenta over here and total impervious area increases by just over 1800 square feet for a total of 55 84. um what we're proposing um is is basically stormwater management is a subsurface infiltration system kind of tucked into the back corner behind the driveway um which is located in this area here it's shown in yellow this system will catch runoff from the entire roof surface um infiltrate it back into the ground i did talk to linda this afternoon about the project in general and what i did do is make a quick revision basically to the plan and i can pull up a pdf in a second to show you but um basically i'll zoom in a little bit more um basically grading the driveway so this square or or parking portion of the the driveway adjacent to the garage base pitches backward and what we've done is added a stone strip along the back edge of the driveway to catch runoff from the upper portion um the square portion of the driveway with that our proposed impervious surface again is just under 5600 square feet um between the house and the majority of the driveway we would be capturing and infiltrating about 4350 square feet or 78 percent or so of the new impervious area um we do have uh fairly robust reductions in runoff rates and volumes going from the two-year storm um of zero percent because there is no runoff uh leaving the property either the existing condition or the proposed condition under smaller storms uh to about 40 percent in the um post-development condition for runoff rates um runoff volumes decrease from the two through the hundred year storm between 20 and 35 percent um so we do have uh pretty substantial reductions stormwater management like pretty much the entire site program is it's pretty straightforward it's a concrete chamber system um we did do hydrologic analysis with that was an operation and maintenance plan um we have an approval from the board of health um that approval came through on um monday of this week that's a quick pass through um i am happy to stop my share and answer any questions or i can leave the plan up if you like you leave the plan up i just uh i wanted if you could repeat i know you were saying the initial you changed something with linda along the driveway what was the initial new impervious and what's the kind of now the current proposal that we're looking at here so the impervious area stays the same um but what we're looking at is there's basically this square portion of the driveway um what we've done is we've just revised the plan to basically have a high point here and then pitch everything toward the back of the property so it doesn't run toward the street and then we've got a stone trench for um capture and infiltration of uh stormwater runoff from the driveway located along this edge so that was the change we made today got it okay thank you does that run into the underground space there it's going to be a separate um basically a separate stone trench the the two i don't believe will will mingle together the the stone trench that we've shown is only a foot wide uh soils in this area are similar to this area kind of dudley pond like it should to it area are extremely sandy so they are very uh well suited for infiltration and they've been to the board of health yes we got a approval from um darren at the board of health on monday what are the okay no i was gonna say linda any do you want to maybe kick us off with any comments or thoughts from your side no like i said brian and i spoke um so this is a redevelopment project so i really wanted him to pick up some more of the driveway because that's a huge driveway and most of that was going into the moral drive um right now it just looks like the bottom part of the um driveway was heading in that direction uh so that's an improvement um he did provide a hydrocat analysis i don't know if you have that in your package or not but um because it is a minor project it's under 2 000 square feet it's really not required and and they he has a huge advantage that the soils here are really good for infiltration so i don't think we need to go through those steps of getting a peer review for this i think that's um i think it's fairly well designed for the for the redevelopment here um my only my only concern oh there was one thing was the o&m plan i don't know you never mentioned what type of system you're putting in it doesn't say you're putting in a shea system and i think anybody who purchases i'm i'm assuming is this a flipped house or is this um are they flipping this no um it's actually uh it's it's a custom house um okay okay yeah i just think that there should be some language probably in one of the first opening paragraphs talking about it doesn't give the model of the chambers but i think it does talk about them being uh precast concrete basically in a stone envelope yeah it's sometimes what i what i always request is just the technical specifications even if it comes from their their website so because most people have no idea what's underground and at least giving them an image and an understanding of what they have in their yard and how it looks like and how to maintain it i think this is really important i mean it's just an education piece but again you know i've come across so many of these you know you know i've probably never received an inspection report since i've been here and we have to start coming out getting after people to do that but it starts with i mean it just helps me because then i don't have to go out there and actually show them what things are and how to do that if they at least have some information in front of them so um that that's the only thing i would i would upgrade the own implant for that okay and also to point out if you uh i asked about the dry well in the front and brian's um told me that that is for a foundation drain so it's that's not for um stormwater runoff okay i just have another question too so one of the first things i do when i go through the agenda and the packet is pull up the house on google maps and um i also saw the listing come up from earlier this year but there were three mature trees in the front of the house and i just don't see it in the current plan and i know you're moving the driveway so i just wanted to ask kind of the status on those trees there's a couple of the trees may have been removed prior to us doing the survey because i don't believe we show them on our survey there's one japanese maple that would be at the if you're looking at it from the street at the front left corner of the house and the intent or the intent is to transplant that um it's uh relatively small it's kind of i think probably a quadruple stem japanese maple but the owner would like to save that and put that over in the front of the property over in front of where the septic system is going to go so the three mature trees that were there when it was sold earlier this year are gone now they i don't remember seeing them so that that's possible we did the survey i want to say back in late october um so i don't remember seeing them there um when i went out there with our field crew to start the survey and there are no other trees slated for removal with this project that's correct what are the three trailer what are more than three what are all the trailers that are on the existing conditions plan so they are just storing construction materials i'm i'm working with the same client at a property in weston and they've got the same thing they've got stone and some other fairly pricey building materials stored in the trailers so they're just temporary in nature yeah i think zoning laws don't allow that anyway for a long-term project for long term so makes uh yeah okay um any other questions from the commission that's seeing any uh any members of the public wish to comment on this i don't see that we have any members of the public here but uh just us looks like it's just us not seeing anybody else um okay uh i think i've got the picture um thank you for the presentation mr nelson uh if everyone is satisfied here i would take a motion to issue a permit approving the project under chapter 194 excuse me chapter 193
so moved thank you shannon do i have a second second thank you lisa roll call vote please shannon fisher yes lisa alvin yes clifford lewis yes barbara howe yes jenny brown yes and i vote yes as well all righty thank you appreciate your time tonight sure have a good evening you as well take care okay we've got about nine minutes before we're expected uh and due at the planning board linda is that going to be enough time for us to knock out this certificate of compliance um we're going to skip that one um you weren't here last time we had a um that was on our last agenda and i suspect that the driveway drainage is not um set up the way it was proposed it's going straight into the street and so i told him i'd go back when there was a really nice rainstorm so i could see where the water is actually going and i guess i missed my chance the other day but it was kind of snowing raining kind of thing so i think what we need is solid rain so but we could go to 6a release a performance bond for 148 sure let's do it dep file number 322-731 um yeah what do you have for us linda well they did um the uh a partial certificate of compliance was issued for this like i said before i started here that's i think all they ever issued were partials um and it was a subject replacement there was some question about whether or not any inspection reports were handed in and that was supposed to um you know cut back on how much money they get back but i i don't really understand why you would require that anyway for a septic replacement it's like a two-day project and you have border health oversight anyway um so i'm you know i'm okay just giving them the the the the total amount back um otherwise it's just way more complicated how we justify holding back any money so that makes sense to me um commission members thoughts comments concerns sounds good to me there's a lot of pressure for us to return all this i have three hundred thousand dollars in performance bonds okay so so when you disappear to the caribbean we'll we'll know who's uh well i wish it's all the td bank and this in separate savings accounts okay per project so oh good grief uh all righty then i would take a motion to release the performance guarantee in its entirety for 148 wood bridge excuse me wood ridge road for dep file number three two two dash seven three one that moved thank you shannon do you have a second well thank you barbara roll call vote please shannon fisher yes lisa alvin yes clifford lewis yes jenny brown yes barbara howell yes and i vote yes as well okay uh well that's i guess we can do the minutes minutes yeah let's go to the minutes um i don't i'm not aware of anything that isn't uh on the agenda that was not anticipated so let's jump to the minutes 8a um the november 19th 2025 meeting minutes any comments from anybody on the commission no it looked pretty good to me i read i reviewed them as well although it was after reviewing the rest of the package i think i was okay with everything yeah i just had a few minor edits that was it um not not anything substantive oh and i was uh not present i did watch a couple of the hearings to catch up on the mullen rule but uh so i'll stay out of this one um okay well hearing nothing then i would take a motion to approve those minutes and moved thank you shannon do i have a second second thank you lisa roll call vote please shannon fisher yes lisa alvin yes playford lewis yes barbara howell yes jenny brown yes and i will abstain from that one uh all righty um well i think maybe emily chime in because i didn't i never got an invite to the planning board meeting did anybody else no is it well that's not is it not in that do we not follow the link that's in the agenda yeah well you can but this brings you to a general um that that we become attendees and not participants so that's why i'm kind of confused by that um anyway yeah i didn't see anything else it seems like maybe we're just gonna have to join the meeting that way and uh maybe one of us can can get their attention and get ourselves promoted up yeah they're they're they're meeting in the large hearing room and i'm afraid to go in there because the entire parking lot of this of town building is full okay um there's a lot of people there so i think i'll stay confined to my office all right we'll need to dial back in i think right for was it um 2 30 conquered yeah emily they get signed a um a zoom link for 2 30 yes and i told them that they should be on before eight just in case we get to them but i don't know if they read my emails so well we're gonna have to i think given the way the agenda reads we're going to have to reconvene here anyhow um so why don't we take a vote to uh adjourn and join the public meeting and joint hearings with the planning board uh and then we will plan to reconvene at the conclusion of those hearings i would take that motion can i ask a quick question before we do that the minutes we just approved are those on the website somewhere
they should be in your agenda packet they're at the very end of the agenda packet
well i can't find the agenda packet either but that's all right okay go ahead yeah um all right so again i would take a motion that we recess our meeting here to join the public meeting of the planning board to conduct a joint hearing or hearings with them uh we will then reconvene here at the conclusion of those hearings with the planning board do i have such a motion so moved thank you lisa do i have a second please second thank you shannon roll call vote shannon fisher yes lisa alvin yes flifford lewis yes yes jenny brown yes barbara howell yes and i vote yes as well okay uh see you over there in a little while and just remember to come back here when we're done there luke i appreciate you taking the bullet for me i was nervous to do anything on a joint session so thanks for lending your expertise and taking over my pleasure i'm going to let these uh let the planning board take the lead i think here where do we go to get in on the planning board so cliff i think that's what we're saying i think you're going to have to just use the zoom there's one in the agenda we have if that's not live for you you can just go to the town website and kind of go and and we're just gonna i think have to log in uh with everybody else and would it help if i just drop the link into the chat is that allowed yeah yeah you can do that because then i was going to email it to everybody so it looks like only part of the link you'll have to copy paste the whole thing because the white part isn't linking okay all right folks so if we keep this on will it come on you're gonna no barber you're gonna have to leave this meeting and then join the planning board and then when we're done there you'll leave that and join back in on this one how do i join the planning board i don't know the link is in the agenda for this meeting yeah that's i don't think that i mean at least on my mind that's not a live link it's not no yeah so it's not working well not on my copy pasty thing it takes you it takes you actually to the town's website and then the live link from there okay well let me send it to barbara okay i'll email it to you barbara i will email it to you okay so i just stay here by the machine yeah and then open up your email and you'll get the link for the planning board oh okay and if it doesn't if it doesn't work there's no big deal you can take a break because we're not going to be doing any i don't think we're going to be making any um votes or anything as far as i know um okay okay yeah i think shannon i think your link isn't working here anyway so i think that's the yeah yeah all right thank you all right but copy the link before we close out of this because once we all leave this disappears so everyone everybody do it now's your chance see you in a little bit all right bye bye