February 11, 2026 – Conservation Commission – Video & Transcript

February 11, 2026 - Conservation Commission

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All right, sitting at 632, and we've got a quorum up to begin the Conservation Commission meeting for February 11th, 2026. The location for in-person meetings is wheelchair accessible. If you need any other accommodations in order to participate in the meeting, please contact the Wayland ADA coordinator at the following number, or at least two business days in advance of the meeting. While the municipality will do its best to accommodate you, certain accommodations may require the hiring of an outside contractor who may not be available if requested immediately before the meeting. This meeting may be recorded, and if recorded, it will be made available to the public on WACAM as soon as possible after the meeting. The public will be excluded from executive sessions. Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, this meeting will be conducted in person or by remote means in accordance with applicable law. If this meeting has only remote access like we are, no in-person attendance by members of the public will be permitted. If this meeting has remote access, one may watch or may participate remotely with the following link. When required by law or allowed by the chair, persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so at the meeting location or remote access like we've got. The public comment should be limited to two minutes per person. With that, let's move on to 2A, 108 Lakeshore Drive, DEP file number 322-1042. It's a continued notice of intent filed pursuant to Whelan's Water and Resource Protection Bylaw and the Whelan Protection Act submitted by Melissa Haley for the prior unpermitted renovation work and completion of said work at 108 Lakeshore Drive and Whelan, Mass. The proposed work is at 100 feet of Dudley Pond. The property is shown in the Assessor's Map 46B, Parcel 35. Linda. The applicant has requested a continuance until March 4th to work on some of the changes that we had discussed at our recent meeting. Okay. I move that we continue the hearing under the Act in Chapter 194 to March 4th after 6.30 p.m. Thank you. Luke, do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Quick roll call, please. Luke Legere? Yes. Barbara Howell? Yes. Shannon Fischer? Yes. Jenny Brown? Yes. Lisa Aubin? Yes. Cliff Lewis? Yes. Deshaun Faresi? Yes. Thank you. It's mounted to be. This is 116 Lakeshore Drive, DEP file number 322-1059. Notice of intent filed pursuant to Wayland's Wetlands and Water Resource Protection Bylaw and Protection Act submitted by Christopher Armandi for the construction of an addition to 116 Lakeshore Drive in Wayland, Mass. Proposed work is within 100 feet of Dudley Pond. The property is shown on Assessor's Map 46B, Parcel 34. Linda? I believe we have the representative here, Kenneth Thompson. Would you like to present that to the commission? Sure. If you could share the screen, please. You can share the screen. Yep. You should be able to.
Okay. There you go. Can you see it? No. Yes. Now we can. Yeah. Okay. My name is Ken Thompson. I'm a botanist. I flagged this back in 2022. What they're proposing is to extend the kitchen with a 7 1⁄2 by 16-foot addition. They're going to remove a deck and ramp system attached at house on the southwest side there, I guess, on the bottom left. It's a steep drop-off. It's a 10-foot drop between the pond and the house. It was a shallow, I mean, narrow wetland line along the pond itself.
That's about it, really. There's no increase in the bedroom, so there's no septic work. It's just extending the kitchen out 7 1⁄2 feet.
I'm here if anyone has any questions, by the way. This is Christopher.
So, Ken, is that overlong, that addition? It's developed, yes. It's a developed landscape all around it. Okay. And is this a foundation? Or how is this the foundation? Yes, I believe so. I believe it is. Okay.
Anything else on your end? No, there was no owner's signature on the application. And the DEP, did you see the comments, Ken? Yes. Yes, we're about a month off of three years. This is my line. My line doesn't change. It's not going to change in three years. No, the bank is pretty prominent here, isn't it? So, okay. And then the only other thing was, you know, we're going to have a condition that there's a current Chapter 191 license for the dock. That will be a condition in the permit. Understood. We also put in a standard condition on almost every project that we have, especially at Dudley, which is to just maintain a 15-foot vegetated buffer from the wetland line. So, that would also be a condition in perpetuity. Again, that's fairly standard in all our permits. Yes, I read in your regulations, yes. That's the Chapter 193 you're looking at. The Chapter 194, they only changed it to that was the floodplain work. But this is, again, we just do this as a very standard condition in order to try to protect the health of the pond. Yep. Understood. Christian, anything else? Barbara, go ahead, get your hand raised, I think. Barbara, go ahead. Yes. I noticed the wetlands were dilated in December of 2022, so we won't be able to accept them.
They just asked for a letter from me. I can provide that. I mean, the wetland line is not going to change. When I was out there, it was summertime or December, but there was no snow on the ground. And I based my work on our soils. I'm a botanist, so the plants are mine, you know.
And I went back and looked at my data sheets. It was all, on the upland side, it was all beech. What else was there? Beech, Norway maple, and the soils were the 2.5 Y44. Downhill side was sycamore red maple, false indigo, and spotted jewelweed. It was a big change in vegetation also.
And that was at wetland flag 15. So, they requested a letter. DEP requested a letter. I did see that. I looked up the notice on time. Okay. Review. So, I'll provide that. So, what's the condition of the beech trees there?
Currently, I don't know, but down here on the South Shore, they're getting creamed. Yeah. It's really bad. No, they're not doing well here either, so that's the reason I ask. Every once in a while, I'll walk into a grove that's in still good shape, but more often than not. It might, I don't know that it would need to be contingent on this or anything, but since, you know, the owner's on here, like, you know, it could take the opportunity to set up a sort of a pioneer replacement system. Get some whips in the ground, replace the beechs, because, like Linda says, and you say too, they're probably not long for this world, unfortunately, and it would be a, you wouldn't want to lose all your woodlands at once. Well, that's easy enough to do. But I don't know, yeah, but I don't even know that it needs to be, like, it's just sort of putting it in your ear while you guys are on here. Okay, we'll look at that. Appreciate that. Thank you. Jim. Anybody else, Commissioner?
What's going on? I was just going to say, it might be in here, and I might be just blanking on it. What's going on the ground underneath where the deck is getting removed?
It'll be a foundation under the addition, and then the rest of the deck and ramp are being removed. Like plantings? Well. No, foundation. Oh, foundation. Okay. Foundation. And then they add a second deck out to the side just to get down a small, you know, four by four deck to get out of the kitchen to the ground. Second egress, I guess.
So, again, Linda, you're good with everything, Linda, now? I'm good. Okay, Commissioner, we good then? Linda's good? If so, can we make a motion then to close first? Sure. I move that we close the public hearing under the Act in Chapter 194. I lost my picture. Thank you, Luke. Do I hear a second? I'll second. Thanks, Cliff. Quick roll call, please. Luke Legere? Yes. Barbara Howell?
Barbara just lost her picture. I don't know if that means her computer froze or something. Okay. We'll hold her up for a second. Shannon Fischer? Yeah. Jenny Brown? Yes. Lisa Aubin? Yes. Cliff Lewis? Yeah. And Sean Ferris, yes. Thank you. Next motion, please. Oh, Barbara's back, by the way. How do you turn up the sound so you can hear? Hey, Barbara, can you hear me? Not very well.
But yes, I did vote, yes. You voted yes on all. Okay, thank you. Next motion, then, would be to approve with.
Yeah, I move that we issue an order of conditions of proving the project under the State Act in Chapter 194 with conditions as discussed.
Thank you. Luke, do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Roll call, please. Luke Legere? Yes. Barbara Howell? Yes. Shannon Fischer? Yes. Jenny Brown? Yes. Lisa Aubin? Yes. Cliff Lewis? Yes. And Sean Ferris, yes. Thank you. Good luck. Appreciate it. You're all set. Thank you. You got it. Thank you. Thanks very much.
Moving along to two Cs. 38 Lakeshore Drive, DEP file number 322-1060, which is a notice of intent filed pursuant to Wayland's Wetlands and Water Resource Protection Bylaw and the Wetland Protection Act, submitted by Beth Thurberg for the replacement of the CEPIC system and relocation of the front entrance at 38 Lakeshore Drive in Wayland, Mass. The proposed work is within 100 feet of Dudley Pond. The property is shown on the assessor's map 43C and parcel 52. Linda? We have Alex here, the engineer, to discuss the project with or to the commission. Hello. Alex, are you going to see my screen? Not yet. Now we can. Yep. My name is Alex Trongers for Trongers Engineering and I represent the applicant. So this was brought to you guys similar, I think a couple of years ago by Ted Ducella and my colleagues. He proposed a geomat septic system in here. Then he referenced me to the new homeowner and we're proposing what's called the bottomless sand filter. It's a more intricate type of septic system. It's the first one in Wayland, but they're very popular up in the coastal regions like Ipswich, Gloucester, and all that fun area. So the benefits of them is they're a much smaller impact to the grading, excuse me, a much smaller impact to the ER. Not much grading is required compared to a conventional or another IA, and they provide very great, very good treatment. And I can kind of show you a picture real quick in case anyone's curious of what they look like. It kind of looks like an above ground sandbox of some sort, but let me get back to the plan. So we are going to be within the lawn area. So the new septic system is going to be behind this barn or garage like structure. It's going to be kind of parallel with it. We're going to have treatment units coming out here. We're going to be relocating the septics, the plumbing inside. That doesn't really matter for you guys, but all the disturbed area will be within the established lawn. And we just got border health approval, and I think Darren sent you an email today, Linda. I'm not sure if you saw that. Yeah, no, I got it. Perfect, man. Happy to take any questions.
Thanks, Alex. Linda, I'll start with you first, please. Yeah, there was another scope on this too, Alex. Oh, yeah. I forgot that. I'm sorry about that, guys. Yeah, and we're also, she's doing some, the owner's doing some renovations in here. They're proposing to relocate their front entrance. Their current front entrance is right here where my mouse is. She would like to push it over to here. No increase in living space, just strictly moving it over a little bit, and we're going to be removing the existing walkway that's there and attaching a smaller portion right there. So no drastic increase. It's a roughly 90 square feet of impervious area that's getting removed and about 100-ish, 112-ish that's getting put back in. So not much of an impact.
Okay. Thank you. Linda? Yeah, I mean, like I said, we've already permitted this, a different type of septic system on this lot, like Alex said a couple of years ago. This is a much smaller system. The leach field is, at least. And hopefully it works. I've never experienced one of these sand filters before. So yeah, but Darren was pretty excited about it coming, you know, learning about it and seeing it put in here. So yeah, they're neat. They've been around for almost like 25-ish years now. So the first one was in Topsfield and still kicking. Yeah, they look really cool. Yeah, they're nice. They're really neat. A lot of, like I said, they're very popular on the coastal regions. It's because of, you know, the ocean and a lot of restrictions there. So they're open, though, at the top, right? Yeah, they're an open system. So I can show you another picture. They're kind of, it looks like an above-grade sandbox. So they go up about a foot or two, and you, people can go, you can put nice veneers on them if you like. Down on Rhode Island, they're very popular, and they do more of like a wooden structure. But a lot of the designers, we typically amass, like to have the CMU block walls, because these tend to rot out, you know, 10, 15 years down the road, and you don't want to go redo your walls. So that's why we do the block walls. Barbara, you have a question? Is that your hand raised? Yeah, does it remove both nitrogen and phosphorus? They did. So they just recently got, so that's not the BSF itself. So when you have nitrogen and phosphorus removable, it's coming from the actual tanks itself. So we are using what's called a Clearwater Waterloo Biofilter, and that just recently got its approval for denitrification as well. Okay, thank you. So with these, like, are you ever able to, like, do they stay completely clear, or can people plant, like, gravel garden-type things in them here and there, like, you know, prickly pear, stuff like that? So you wouldn't put anything on top of it. You can put, like, pots and potted plants on there. We can, kind of, creative on some designs. You can put, like, a deck over it, too, to kind of, you know, have living space. But as a planting, you don't put anything in there. You treat that as a standard septic. So, got it. Well, even those have lawn, but, you know, I had a good point. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Question, anything else? Linda, you're good? I'm good. Question, good?
Okay. I want to make a motion to close the hearing, please. Sure. I move that we close the hearing under the Act in Chapter 154. Thank you, Luke. Do we hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Roll call, please. Luke Legere? Yes. Barbara Howell? Yes. Shannon Fischer? Yes. Jenny Brown? Yes. Lisa Aubin? Yes. Cliff Lewis? Yes. Sean Ferzi, yes. Next motion, please. I move that we issue an order of conditions approving the project under the State Act in Chapter 194 with conditions as discussed. Thank you, Luke. Do we hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Roll call, please. Luke Legere? Yes. Barbara Howell? Yes. Shannon Fischer? Yes. Jenny Brown?
Yes. Lisa Aubin? Yes. Cliff Lewis? Yes. And Sean Ferzi, yes. Thank you, guys. All set. Thank you. Thank you.
On to 2D. Linda, there's no DEP number here? No, no DEP number. Okay. This is 2D. This is 123 Dudley Road. No DEP number. It's a notice of intent filed pursuant to Wayland's Wetlands and Water Resource Protection Bylaw and the Wetland Protection Act submitted by Joel Gumminson for the construction of a single-family home, septic system, and stormwater management system at 123 Dudley Road in Wayland, Mass. The proposed work is with 100 feet of Dudley Pond, and property is shown on Assessor's Map 47A, Parcel 72. Linda? I believe who's... Seth, are you going to present this to the commission? I would be happy to if I have a moment to introduce myself as well as the folks that are with me tonight. Sure. So, good evening, commission members. My name is Seth Donahoe. I'm with Dillis and Roy's Civil Design Group. I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant, Joel Goodmanson and Robin Greenleaf. Mr. Goodmanson is also a panelist, and he may be sharing some pictures with you as we move through this conversation. Also on the call tonight is the project architect, Andrew Cohen of Act II Architects. Should there be any questions related to the building itself, I'll defer that to Andrew and ask him to speak on that. And also on the call is the applicant's attorney, Attorney Daniel Hill. Daniel Hill is not a panelist. If it's possible, if he could be promoted to panelist during this construction, we'd appreciate that. So, as you read in on the beginning of the conversation, this is an application for a notice of intent at 123 Dudley Road. Is it all right if I share my screen? Please. Great.
All right. So, what's hopefully before you at this point is a color-coded portion of the plan that we had submitted to you. So, these are the exact same plans that were in the notice of intent bundle. If you have paper copies in front of you, you should be able to follow along, except for the color coding is unique for this conversation. This is sheet two, which is the existing conditions on the site. And as I go through these pages, I'm generally going to start at the resource area, and then I'll work up to features farthest away from the resource area. So, obviously, we have Dudley Pond on the site. It's about a 29,000 square foot lot, just under 29,000 square feet. We have Dudley Road in the northern portion of the lot. There is an existing foundation remnant. And then the green dash line delineates the bank of Dudley Pond. That was completed by Goddard Consulting in October of 2025. The buffer zones are calculated based upon that. So, we have the 30-foot buffer zone. We have the 75-foot buffer zone in orange, and also the 100-foot buffer zone at the fringe of the site. So, only a small portion of the site is beyond the 100-foot buffer zone. So, as I mentioned, there's an existing foundation. My understanding is that there was a prior residence there that was damaged by fire. The purple outline is the existing septic system, which was utilized by that residence. And there are some utility connections that serve that residence as well. Those are the water line and gas line that are dashed there. At this point, I would expect that they may be capped, but those are record. They are shown on prior plans. I'm going to switch to sheet C3, which is our proposed conditions plan. Again, Dudley Pond on the western portion of the site, the same buffer zones that we just spoke about. The existing septic system, which is in close proximity to the pond, is to be removed. That will service a proposed dwelling that is – got a little feedback, but we'll work through that. The proposed dwelling is keyed into the slope. It'll have a new septic system, and that will have a secondary treatment as well, so a denitrification. On the other side of the proposed dwelling is a stormwater management system that's a subsurface infiltration system designed in accordance with the local bylaw. So, as the commission's aware, it's a single-family dwelling. DEP does not apply the DEP stormwater standards to that. In this case, your local bylaw requires a much higher standard, and we are conforming to that, infiltrating much of our impervious area. And incorporated in that is a storm scepter treatment unit, and that is to provide the required TSS removal and other features, essentially cleaning of the stormwater before it goes into the infiltration system. And I will be happy to bounce back to any of these sheets as our conversation progresses tonight. But right now, I'm going to move through them, as I imagine the commission will have some questions for myself and the development team.
Following that sheet in your package is a sedimentation and an erosion control plan. This includes many of the notes for the construction period, safety measures that are going to be put in place. There is going to be a continuous erosion control barrier consisting of filter socks and a silt fence surrounding the site that will surround the entirety of the work areas. There are erosion control blankets on many of the slopes flanking the proposed house. And there is a slope on the lot, so we have a, what I would call it a mid-tier or mid-section of the site is to be accessed via a temporary construction entrance, which will allow vehicles and materials to get to the lower section of the site above the erosion control barrier. I'm going to switch back one screen real quick here. That erosion control barrier is the black line on this screen. The green area, which is west of the barrier, that's the existing woods and shrub area that's to be maintained and to be preserved. So the entirety of the area between the proposed dwelling and Dudley Pond is not proposed to be altered and no alterations to the bank of Dudley Pond. We did do a comprehensive location of the trees on the property. So you have in table form your chapter 193 and chapter 194 trees as the mitigation and replication related with those are different depending on where they fell in the buffer zone. So on this plan here, the light gray trees, which are all numbered and they correspond to the table form, those are the trees that would be removed. Some of these trees are designated for removal based on the town's critical root zone definition. So there are some trees that it's my belief because of the slope of the lot, the critical root zone probably would not be applicable to the uphill side. And the applicant is committed to preserving any trees that they can on the site. The applicant is also committed to meeting the requirements, the mitigation and replacement requirements of the both chapter 193 tree mitigation and chapter 194 tree mitigation. And I'm going to touch on that again at the end of my overview here as we would need some input from your commission on some of those items. And finally, we have a construction detail sheet, which is showing many of the schematics of the stormwater management system and some of the features that are going to be integrated into the site. As I mentioned, there's a storm scepter unit that's for basic cleaning and treatment of the stormwater before it gets put into an infiltration area beside the house. There's various details for the structures that will be actually collecting this stormwater runoff and conveying it to the subsequent infiltration area, as well as some of the typical utility details that are required for proper construction on the site. So that's a high-level overview. There's a lot of information in our package, and I'm here tonight with the project team to address any questions that the commission has. We look forward to working with you on this project. I understand that the project and the property, or specifically the property, has some past history with this commission and a prior order of condition. So we're hoping to improve upon that and build a building at a greater offset to the pond with many of the modern protections that were not implemented in prior regulations. But that, Joel, if you have a rendering, I think a picture's worth a thousand words here, I'd be happy to stop sharing my screen and introduce you at this point. And you had a nice photorealistic rendering of what this proposed dwelling will look like from Dudley Road. And I'm bringing that up because the dwelling is keyed into the slope. So the intent of it is to have a minimized view from abutting properties and Dudley Road and to work with the landscape that's present. So thanks, Seth. So to the commission members, my name is Joel Goodmans, and I'm hoping to develop an age-in-place house in Weyland. We've been residents of Weyland for 34 years and raised our family here and would like to stay here through our elder years, as we say. So this is, I'm going to just flip to an image. This is the image of what we're thinking of, you know, what we're thinking of from, this is essentially a driveway view. The house, as Seth has described, is built into the hill. It's a three-level house. The uppermost level contains a garage, an entry, and an office space. The next level down contains the three bedrooms, a master suite, a guest bedroom, and what we call the bunk room for our grandsons. And the lowest level is the main living level. And on this particular site, the magic happens at the ground, where you look out onto Dudley Pond. And that's where our living, dining, kitchen, and a media room exist. So this is the view. This is simply the rendered model of the site at the top. This is a view of the rendered model from the pond. And then we had our architect superimpose the rendered model on a photograph of the site from Dudley Road. And that's what this image is. So this is essentially what the impact is from Dudley Road. As you see, the end of the house, this would be at the upper level, the office space. The level below is the bunk room. Off to the right, it doesn't jump out at you. But this is where the house steps toward the pond slightly. And this is a green roof at this level. And then that footprint continues down to the lower level. And as Seth has described, this is being designed for Robin and I to be able to stay for as long as we can. The house is designed with an elevator to allow us to, I guess, the current term is age in place. But this is a community we're really committed to and would like to stay a part of.
So, Seth, that's all I've got.
I appreciate it, Joel. I think a picture helps a lot. Plan view is important. But definitely being able to put some visuals to it definitely helps out. So I will wrap up before I defer to the commission for some of the questions that you may have. But as Joel mentioned, the rear portion of the property incorporates a green roof on that section. And then in lieu of a deck behind the house, Joel and Robin have elected to use permeable pavers, permeable paver patio. So from a setback standpoint, the permeable paver patio is proposed at 35.9 feet from the bank of Dudley Pond. And the dwelling itself is presently proposed at 47 feet from the bank of Dudley Pond. To put that in perspective, the prior dwelling was just over six feet from the bank of Dudley Pond. So vast improvement in terms of that. A portion of the existing dwelling footprint is to become a screen house for Joel and Robin to sit in. But we will be increasing the setback, reducing the footprint of that area as well. So that is the bulk of the information that I wanted to get off as we introduce this project to the commission tonight. Certainly, if anybody has any questions, we'd be happy to take those and answer them best we can tonight. Okay. Thanks, Seth. Thanks, Joel. Linda, let's start with you, please. Well, these are questions that are directed towards Seth mainly. I'd like to get an idea of the amount of disturbance. You remarked that the amount of impervious is $49.55. Now, does that include everything? The driveway, the retaining walls, the house, the pervious pavement?
We did not include the pervious pavers in that. But we did include the rest of the impermeable surface in that. So walkways, walls, the footprint itself. And the driveway? The driveway is included in that. So it's proposed as a bituminous driveway. Do you have a detail of this, pervious pavers? Because I'm not sure I saw that on here. I'm not sure what you're planning on putting in. We do not have the product cut sheet for it. But I can put a permeable paver detail on the plan to memorialize that if that's something that's important to you. Well, because often in our chapter 193, we do not consider pavers as pervious. We consider them as impervious. And usually incorporate those into the HydroCAD model, too, and model it that way as a conservative way. And the roof runoff. It looks to me like there's just one roof drain on the corner of the garage. Is that all that's getting captured? Well, because it's a contemporary-style building, it'll have, like a commercial building, it'll have internal roof. The roof will collect it and then convey it to that one point. So the entirety of the flat roof or lightly sloped roof will be collected and conveyed to that front system. Okay, because there's no details on that either. So that's why I was confused by that one. What else do I have? And, yeah, like I said, I'd like to know just the amount of land disturbance, including, you know, how much is going to be of this property is getting. Because most of it is within the buffer. And that's an important number that we need to know, exactly how much of the buffer zone is getting impacted and how much is getting disturbed. Also, tree removal seems to be fairly, I counted up 119 trees, eight of which are categorized as to be determined. And then you have another seven that you wanted requested to be removed. And of those, I think I counted, I think, six in the 30-foot no disturb and the other seven that you were requesting in the 30-foot disturb. And that's going to be a much tougher request because typically we don't allow things to be done in the 30-foot, you know, in the no disturb area unless they're dead. One other item, let me think here, is, oh, so the storm scepter alone looks like you're taking down a dozen trees to put that in. Is there a better location for that? I mean, you already have part of the septic underneath the driveway. Is there some, is there a better location like where the driveway bump out is or something to put the storm scepter? We can absolutely look at that. So that gets into the conversation about the critical root zone. We took a conservative look at that. So we took the diameters, drew circles around the trees. Now, there is a significant slope in some of these areas, and it would be my belief that the root zone does not extend uphill as much as that critical root zone would show there. The roots would be extremely deep or being visible on the surface in that case. So we can look at those individual areas. It's funny because Joel, Robin, and I actually discussed that specific area this afternoon and their desire to preserve one of the larger trees there. So I'd like to get back to you on potentially replacing or relocating the storm scepter unit to provide less impact in that particular spot. And would you have less impact if you use something different like just a bigger dry well, you know, like a big shea concrete dry well versus storm scepters that need, I think, a more larger dimension? I mean, you can tell me that. You know, I don't know the answer to that. You probably have to know what the capacity of all that stuff is, and I don't have that on top of my head either. So that was one concern. The other one is also the construction entrance. I mean, I don't think that's even realistic. The slope on that is unbelievable. I mean, it goes from 177 to, what is it, 158 or something for that short slope. And again, you know, lots of trees are getting removed in that area just to accommodate a construction entrance. Is there a better way to manage that? Is there, you know, using the proposed driveway instead while the construction is going on? Because that's at least flat. But that's an enormous slope you got going there. I just can't imagine you're going to get anything up and down that hill, you know, as far as deliveries or even vehicles for that matter. So we can certainly take that under advisement and look at multiple options for that. I mean, realistically, I think it's probably going to need basically a phased construction entrance, one for the beginning process. And then when portions of the site are complete, it would be relocated to allow alternative access and abandon the original one or restore the original one. Yeah, it's just, I mean, it seems like quite a number of trees are getting taken down just to accommodate a construction entrance. And we're looking to save these trees as opposed to taking them down. Because, you know, with the way our Chapter 193 and our 194 tree removal replanting schedule is, it's going to be really difficult to replant what is required for, you know, under our rules and regulations. And that's why, you know, the less you take down, the better off you are, I think, in this case, because there was no planting plan was produced for this. I didn't, were you planning on submitting one because there's a reference to one, but I don't see any, I don't see, we didn't get one. So the issue is, is you just hit on it. So it is a steep lot and it does have quite a few trees on it. So we acknowledge that there's quite a few trees being removed as part of this. And it's the applicant's intent to, to meet that requirement. But my understanding is that the town has recently revised those regulations and there's a forthcoming tree bank or an opportunity to provide offset mitigation on town property. And I'm bringing that up before the commission because we could certainly plant and we would like to plant many native trees and shrubs on the site. But I do not think we are going to reach that number that's going to satisfy the requirements of that replication. And so we'd like to be able to have the opportunity to either do it on conservation land or town land to supplement that.
Well, that's part of a much bigger discussion. Again, our, you know, we just adopted the chapter 193 and we missed the deadline to, for town meeting to put in a revolving fund for a tree bank. So we're still, you know, we're still getting through the process of how we're, how we're going to do that, how we're going to manage that. Because it is, it is, you know, administratively, it could be a fairly large ask for the conservation department here. So that's why if, you know, the idea is, if you're going to take all these trees down, you need to find some way of replanting them. You know, otherwise, you know, it, it just appears like the project's way too big. And so that's why I'm encouraging you to take a look at certain things and say, is it really necessary to take all these trees down for, for something like the storm scepter, for the construction access, and for, for views, things like that. Um, I think, I think, I think that's where there's some decisions need to be made about how many trees you plan on taking down and see if we can reduce that number. Okay. Yeah, we'll look at that. And it, it's worth noting too, the site did have a house on it. And the issue here is that essentially the majority of the 30 foot buffer zone, um, has shrub or lawn remnants in it. It, it, it's literally the only portion of the site that does not have dense trees in it. So we would like to revegetate that area, um, coming out of this, but the unfortunate end of positioning things further away from the pond is that is pushing it into the area that has the trees where there's already a, a cleared area on the site, but it's very close to the resource area. So we're, we're trying to balance that and come out at a net improvement on that. Well, you're also comparing apples to orange. That was a two bedroom, one bath house. Okay. So there was a lot, lot less impact for that particular, um, development than, than, than, than what you're proposing now. So it's, I don't, I don't know. It's worth invoking that, but what was there before, because, uh, this, this is a whole different animal. Okay. No, I, I think what, what you misunderstood is, is that the, the area that it's typically protected, the 30 foot, no touch zone is the area that has not much in it right now. It's, it's, it's the most barren portion of the site. So we'd like to concentrate a lot of the mitigation in that area. Okay. No. And that's what we would, we would, uh, encourage. So. Um, and either way we have to continue, we don't have a DEP number. So I guess commission any, we've continued to do this either way, but any other comments to add on top of that, Linda, several comments there. I just had a question on, so the total impervious does not include the permeable patio, but of the total impervious, how much is the foundation of the house versus the driveway? Uh, the house footprint and Andrew was kind enough to shoot that to me right before, uh, round numbers, 2,700 square feet. And then we have on the, on the plan itself, um, total impervious, um, is 4,955. We can, we can back the 2,700 out of that. So you get 2,250 round number. Uh, how long is the driveway, uh, from the property line or to Dudley Road? That's, that's a loaded question because Dudley Road is not where it's supposed to be. It's, it's meandering up outside of the limits of its design right away. Or where you're actually going to put the driveway.
If you're putting the driveway all the way to Dudley Road, count it to Dudley Road. So to the applicant's lot line, it is a length of just under a hundred feet.
And to Dudley Road. It's a Dudley Road. So there's a right-of-way that allows them to get up that way. Um, your round number, 150 feet. You get up there.
So they point out to the commission that, um, this, you know, we have, because of the size of the impervious of this project, um, typically this is well beyond my capabilities. It's also a hydro-cad modeling exercise that I think at some point we might want to consider doing a peer review for the stormwater management on this, but I don't want to ask the applicant to do that now. If there are going to be some changes to the design, if they want to, want to look at that first. Um, I'd much rather do a peer review on the final design than on the, on this particular one, if there's, if you're planning on doing, maybe taking a look at what our comments were today. So I would have, I would have to speak with the applicant on that, but, but my gut is that, that, that would be agreeable at this point. Um, we can certainly meet the technical requirements, but we would like to work with the commission to make sure that, um, everything else is in order before we start that process. Oh yeah, no, definitely. Definitely. Yep.
Okay. Um, so anyway, we have to continue. Sean, Sean, Sean, what other, because I, Linda, I think Linda, um, I think, um, hit on sort of the big picture issues I had, and I'm glad you just mentioned a peer review Linda, because that's certainly something I was wondering about as well. It seems like we probably would need a peer review on the stormwater. Um, but I, I was just curious. I saw some comments come in from, uh, the abutters to this property. One set came in over the weekend, if I'm not mistaken, and they hadn't received notice of the filing. Do we have green cards back? Do we have confirmation that, uh, abutter notifications have been sent and received? Yes, we received the, the initial, um, certified letter, you know, the, the white card and only, I think I only received one green copy of a green card, but they, they were sent out 10 days prior to the hearing. Um, I'm just, I don't know how many people actually returned or received the abutter notices because I, again, I only received one out of the, the, I don't know how many there were. I can go back and look.
How many abutters did you have? Uh, it looks like seven and I only received one of the seven green cards back, but often those take a while, you know, with the U S postal service. So I don't know if you, Seth, did you receive any more? We have not yet. Oh, okay. Yeah. I find, unfortunately at this point, um, we all work. We're not always home to sign for our mail anymore. It seems to be a little bit of an archaic thing, but we, without a doubt, we gave you the receipts for the mailing, um, the white cards. So they, they went out, um, it's up to them if they want to go pick them up. So we, a number of the applicants and their representatives sent you a certificate of mailing instead. So there is no reason, you know, and sometimes they have more success with that. Yep.
I have, I'm going to, oh, sorry. I'm going to save my little fiddly things for, um, maybe a little bit later, but I had sort of maybe three things, one of which might be kind of silly, but I kind of want to reiterate, I think that trying to use the proposed, um, driveway as much as possible, instead of creating the construction, like, like Linda said, that's a great idea. And maybe trying to repurpose this existing gravel drive that doesn't have a lot going on. I, that is limited as a construction entrance, but maybe there's something to be exploited there. If you, and I'm wondering, you have a really nice biodiverse woodlot there, it looks like with not a lot of invasives, but you do mention that there is buckthorn. So there may be, there's room for planting as well to remove those buckthorn, um, to remove those, you know, cut and paint and, and plant within that. So depending on how dense that buckthorn layer is, that could be a good planting opportunity and it would be good invasive mitigation. And two, I, I sort of have to, I'm only thinking about this because of the previous place and this may not be appropriate at all, but I don't know if like that cool sandbox septic system could help cut down on anything. It looks like maybe a lot of that septic is under the driveway. So no, but I'm just putting it out there as a weird idea in case it helps cut down on any space to help save any trees. Um, so those are, those are kind of my main, my main topics there.
Okay. Thanks, Sean. Anybody else? Do we have any hands raised on, um, for participants? I mean, the attendees. Uh, yes, we have one. Skip would like to speak. If you can, somebody can move them over.
I know we, we spent a lot of time on this project once before it had a, um, failed septic system down at the house was on the bottom and it burned down and the septic, it was in three and a half feet of water and obviously was just draining into Dudley Pond. Um, they were trying to figure out how they could work down there, get down there from the top of, by Dudley Road and they were thinking of using an excavator on treads to get down that steep slope and we had many, uh, hearings on, on this project and they finally, I think gave up. Um, we voted by a slender vote, um, to allow it. They were going to have the septic up at the top and it would be pumped up there and it's, it's, it's just too steep, uh, slope to do much on. Um, I don't know how you'd plant trees on it. Um, you couldn't get any equipment down there.
The slope is so steep.
Okay. Thanks, Babs. Um, we did, I brought Skip over, I think. Skip, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Can you just identify, uh, who you are, please? Say that again? Can you just identify who you are, please? Uh, my name's Skip Miller. I am, uh, the next door neighbor, a butter, uh, at 121 Dudley Road, uh, next door to the, uh, property. Okay, go ahead. Um, well, I just wanted to make the point that it's, it's a very small, tight knit lakeside community. Um, most of all the houses are small, basically cabins or cottages that have been renovated over the last hundred plus years. Um, and most of them, myself included, you know, have gone to great lengths to minimize the impact of the renovation project. And, you know, just looking at the plans and what's being proposed, I don't see any minimization of impact. I see maximization of house, um, and it just flies in the place of everything that everyone has done on the pond to date. Um, I just don't understand why we need to come up with such elaborate engineering solutions, um, tedious, like backdoor planting trees at conservation sites to offset clear cutting the pond. It, it just, it just doesn't make sense. What makes sense is scaling back the house. Um, I'm not saying going back to the two bedroom, one bath that it was, um, but trying to reel it in because everything is against what we're trying to do on the pond, which is to minimize disruption. And this just maximizes soil disruption. It's a very challenging site. Like many people have already suggested, um, when the house fills basically the entire lot, just getting machinery and equipment and materials, it just gets exponentially harder and harder. And the disturbance will be more and more. There's an abandoned foundation sitting next to the pond, which I don't hear any plans for. Um, you know, it, it just seems way out of scale with the property and the sensitivity of the site and the neighborhood. Um, and I, I just don't see how a mansion fits into our neighborhood. It just doesn't really. Um, I think something more in scale with the property and the site and the neighborhood just makes a lot more sense. Um, and that by doing that, you, you solve a lot of problems with site disruption, tree cutting, all of it, just by scaling down the project in general. Um, gotcha. That's my thoughts. Okay. Thank you. Uh, and again, just for the record, we, we can only, uh, you know, do, we do it within our jurisdiction. So, um, but we'll definitely appreciate your comments there. Um, I think there was another hand. Yep.
One second. One more here.
Uh, Michael Morat, Mr. Morat, Mrs. Morat.
Maybe they, I'll give him a second. Anybody else to commission, we good. Um, we have to continue this anyways. Um, um, and so I guess, as I say, work, you know, work within the meantime to see what we can do to minimize and again, just, uh, we, we still vote as a commission, but just be very clear. We've never before ever allowed anybody to mitigate their, their, their site by planting on commission's land ever before. So just by saying we wouldn't have, I don't want to say what we're going to vote for, but just to give you a very clear eyed, um, what we've, what's history said before here, um, that's never been done. So, so that's noted. I, I appreciate that. I mean, that, that's obviously something that we wanted to talk with the commission amount and the application team will, we'll discuss that as well, um, and come forward with a resolution. Nothing in this application is meant to bypass any of your regulations or requirements. Uh, my understanding and reading it is that is an option and that there is an intent to have a forthcoming, um, tree bank essentially to allow improvement for the community as a whole, not just an individual site. But we understand that that, that may not be an option at this time. So once we tune up, um, and incorporate many of the comments that we've received tonight, if it's all right with the commission, I'd like to reach out to Linda and run that by on a preliminary basis to make sure that we're, we're headed towards the correct home plate, um, real briefly. And I know you're getting later in your agenda. I do, I do, I do want to point out, there was a lot of comments about the size, um, and, and Joel put up that image of the structure and how it's intended to fit in. And this is a, this is a bigger lot for the area. And, um, frankly, the, the building coverage that's resulting from this proposed house is probably less, it is less than the neighborhood. We're, we're under 10% of our lot area being covered here. Um, and, uh, if, uh, uh, look at the surrounding neighborhood was completed, it's a zoning issue that that's certainly not, um, a conservation issue, but I think you'd find that, that we're under what a lot of them are around there. That's not to say that we're, we're not taking under advisement what's been received tonight, but I just wanted to point that out before we left here tonight. Yep. I appreciate that. Can I just ask one more question about the preliminary plans? Um, you had mentioned the, where the original foundation is, is about six feet from the bank, um, of the pond and you're going to pull that back a little bit. It looks like from the plans that you might build like a screened in porch and deck. Are you actually removing the old foundation? I think the foundation is still there, right? My understanding is correct. Yeah, we, we would be getting rid of that and, and pulling it back and the intent is for the applicant to, to be able to enjoy the pond. I, I think people are using it now. There's, there's tracks in the snow to, to get down through there. So, um, it's obviously people like to be able to go out ice skating or kayaking, whatever's going on there.
Okay. Commission. Uh, so, uh, what the fourth, Linda of March is next. Well, you're on mute there, Linda, Linda, you're on mute.
I didn't know if we were still waiting for Michael Moreau to join us.
Just let me in. Yeah, no, I, I've called out. Hey, how you doing? Can you hear me? Oh, there you go. Yep. Hey, I'm so sorry. I had internet problems at my house. So I ran over to skip's house. I'm officially skip right now. Sorry about that. No, you're good. A little unconventional way. Um, I live at one 25 Dudley, uh, effectively my doorstep will face this proposed project. And I think one of the things that Seth had left out on his 3d rendering was our house entirely. So on the 3d rendering that, uh, Joel and Seth put together, our house is missing entirely. So, uh, you know, they're looking to put a house about 40 feet from our front doorstep. And the way it is now, the way that we look out our front doorstep is we see trees. And if this comes to fruition, uh, there'll be effectively a parking lot in front of our house and a clear cutting. Um, so a lot of that lot, like, uh, Seth had mentioned was, uh, was, uh, grasslands. And basically if you got rid of 119 trees, that means almost the entire lot is clear cut. So I think if the commission's goal is to improve on existing conditions, this, uh, is about as far away from it as you can get. So I'm hoping that there's an unbiased and independent peer reviewer that can look at this through a, um, you know, an unbiased lens and come up with a, uh, you know, an opinion that, uh, makes sense for the conservation of Dudley Pond.
Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Okay. Uh, I think we got all the comments, those ones. So we are going to continue this, um, and yes, uh, Seth, I think reaching out to Linda as, and taking the comments into account would be definitely be a good move. Um, all right. So we're looking for continuation then sometime after 6 30, uh, on March 4th for this one under both. And it's just, I didn't hear it. Is that, does the applicant want the fourth? Is that going to be enough time for you?
Yeah, I think, I, I don't think, um, I think we're going to have a couple of conversations before we're, we're done with this. So we'll, we'll take whatever time the commission's willing to, to provide us. Sure. Okay. Uh, yeah. Then I move. We continue this hearing under the state act chapter one 94 and chapter one 93 to March 4th. After 6 30 PM. All right. Thank you, Luke. Do we hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Uh, roll call, please. Luke Legere. Yes. Barbara Howell. Yes. Shannon Fischer. Yes. Jenny Brown. Yes. Lisa Aubin. Yes. Cliff Lewis. Yes. And Sean Fares a yes. Sounds good. All right. We'll see you in a few weeks. Thank you. Appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Uh, moving right along to the public meeting. So this is three. Uh, 37, 45, 47, the Waltham road. Also known as Carroll school. Uh, D dash one zero four six is a continued request for determination filed pursuant to Wayland's wetlands and water resource protection bylaw and the wetland protection act. Uh, chapter one 93 submitted by the Carroll school, the construction of a new school building with associated parking areas, septic system, and utilities at 37, 39, and 45 Waltham road in Wayland, Mass. Uh, the proposed work is partially within a hundred foot buffer zone of a boring, vegetated wetland. The property is shown in the assessor's map five, lots 14, 15, and 16. Linda, Linda, you on mute. Linda, you on mute.
Sorry. No, the Carroll school has asked for a continuance. Uh, we had another zoom call, uh, this past week where we discussed some, um, um, just some, a few more issues related to the, um, the stormwater management of this. And so again, um, one thing before we take a vote to continue, I just wanted to let you know that one of my suggestions was again, to send the water to the wetlands, which is technically townland. That's conservation land back there that there's a strip of land that, that hugs the, the soccer fields in the back. Um, the flooding that we saw the first time around was, was mainly because I think so much of the water was directed to the front of the property. We, we saw flooding on Waltham road. And so my suggestion to the engineer was to take a lot of the roof runoff, which is fairly clean and send it to the back, you know, and try it. And because it was, there was a whole mounting issue too, with all the water going into one infiltration basin. And so we will, at some point when we come back with, uh, to discuss this, uh, with the applicant, I think there will be maybe a waiver or motion or something made where we do allow them to discharge to the wetlands. So, so, which isn't a bad thing. I think the, I think the water should go there anyway. So. Okay. Um, so nothing to do for now that we have to move out. We'll just continue on the fourth. Yeah. We'll just, we're going to, we're going to meet, meet again on the fourth.
Okay. We need a motion or is this a, this is a meeting? Nope. There's a meeting. Yep. Um, we're onto four, a 25 holiday road warrant article. Linda. Well, I've heard, um, Barbara's, um, has, I've heard from Barbara and a number of her other, um, other people on Orchard Lane of the warrant article that's proposed to develop 25 holiday road, a 13 acre parcel. That's right at the end of the first leg of, of, uh, Orchard Lane. And, uh, there's the warrant article is to fund a $200,000 engineering study to potentially develop that parcel. So I just want to make sure people know that it's, it's a beautiful mature forest down there. Um, it's, it's, it's a shame to have anything done there, but, um, I think, uh, I know I'm thinking, um, I think Barbara's looking for some support there, aren't you, Barbara? Yes. I mean, everyone walks there. They come from Gleason Lane and all around, and it's a good place to, to walk. Yeah. And it's a beautiful habitat and natural resource area. And there's a lot of water that comes down there and it ends up behind the houses on holiday. And if you put a big building or something, you're going to, you're going to flood some of those houses on holiday. And just to be clear, right? It's, it's town land, but it's owned by the school. It was left by the Coopers who own one Orchard Lane in their will for school use. And quite a few years ago, this whole business occurred and the neighbors wanted to protect that area and we ended up going to the highest court in Massachusetts and they ruled that it was school land and now it's, here we are again.
Obviously memories are pretty short then, Barbara, huh? Good thing we have Barbara on though. People have fought for this land. Barbara, how long have you lived in town?
What? How long have you lived in town? 60 years plus.
We've got 50, but you've got me. I think we can't. You're a new cover cliff. Yeah, I guess. 58 or something like that. So, Bab, are you asking for us to vote on something today or just want to give us, give us the update on what's going on? What? Are you looking for a vote on something today or are you just giving us a heads up on this Warren article? I'm not looking for any votes. But just to make you, people aware that this could be used for outdoor education, the schools could use it.
And currently it is used by all the people that live in this section of Wayland as our one and only woods and open space. Which also makes it all the more essential for the wildlife too. Oh, yeah. That's where the owls roost down there. You've got lady slippers growing. It's a great place. At one time it was an orchard and now it has grown up into woods. Well, it seems like somebody needs to be educated about this court case because I'm not sure that's well known. I myself have never heard of that. I've never heard any mention of that here in town building. About what? About the court case. That you were talking about that preserved it for school use only. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, you love Orchard Lane, you know, and they were going to put old age housing there. I remember that. It's one of the best streets in town. And then they said it was too far away for older people. So, Luke, how do I look up a court case? I can do it. I can do it for you. Oh, yeah? Oh, okay. And Barbara, you said that went to the state Supreme Judicial Court? Yep. Ask George Harris. Oh, George Harrison, no? Well, he was our leader. I think I might know the case you're referring to. But, yeah, it's roughly when was that case decided? Do you remember, Barbara? I was still working.
You're still working, Barbara. Because of my hours, but I'd have to look it up. Like 1984? 1984, does that sound about right to you? It could be. 1983, 1984? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I see a couple cases with Mr. Harris versus the town of Wayland being decided in that time frame. So, I'll track it down. Linda, I'll email it on to you. And then at least we'll all be educated. Is it? Send it to Sean, too. Because then he can send it off to his, you know, be on the school committee, right? Yeah. And could, is it worth considering, like, what if Conservation Department and the school committee worked together and came up with cool outdoor learning, outdoor classroom type things that could be done there, thereby making use of this space and keeping it natural and sort of even more firmly making the case, this is for the school. You know, this serves a purpose. This is wild for the school kind of thing. So, that's interesting because I have a bunch of eighth graders calling me. They have to do a civics project this year. They're looking for all kinds of things to do. And we could teach them about ecosystems, invasive plants, the value of, like, the whole cycle of, you know, the food cycles and how it all fits together. And they could remove native plants, start nurturing or remove invasive plants, nurture some invasives, observe the wildlife, find some salamanders. Like, do we have vernal pools around there? I can't. I don't think so. No. But we could still find some salamanders under the logs. It's a hill. Yeah. So, like, there could be some really cool opportunities. Maybe this is, like, a wake-up call where we're, like, okay, not only, you know, is this very clearly the schools, but, you know, here's ways that it can be used for, you know, for nature, outdoor classroom type stuff. Yeah. So, let me start with getting that court case so I can at least pass that along and make that case. I'm sending it to you right now. Oh, thank you. I'm not that I'm not totally focused on our conversation. I'm able to move on. There is a big conservation area not a quarter mile away from there, off of Gleason Lane. Sedge Meadow. Yeah, Sedge Meadow. Huge. Yeah. Anything that we wanted to teach kids. If you did a walk on Gleason Lane. Cliff, we always talked about doing some sort of a cross-whaling path, too, and the slide boarders actually talked about that a couple of times and put it as one of their goals. And I saw this parcel as critical to that. You know, if we can cut through Cow Common, through the North Cemetery, into this property, you can get into Sedge Meadow. You can get in, you know, and you can keep going north and make a really nice cross-whaling path, at least the north side of Whaling. You know, it seems like that piece is like the critical part that we would need for a connection. We could even connect it down to the... We would need all of that space to put in a cross-connection, but that's a very good idea. Oh, we don't need it. We don't need a little sidewalk on Gleason Lane, basically, for that same purpose, but that's a better idea to take it through there. We could even connect it with the rail trail further down, or at least find the paths that would get people there, and then really get some connectivity in the natural world, because there's all kinds of paths that branch off the rail trail, too. Yeah, yeah. Should we be coming up with something to, like, be presenting at town meeting to make the case for these things? Because does someone need to stand up and discuss it from the school committee and from the conservation department?
You're certainly welcome to when it comes up. I mean, it's not our warrant article, but yeah, I'm certainly welcome to... Okay. I also think if they're educated that there's a court case that says they can't use it for development, then they might pass over the... Or not even... I think what the court case might say is that it can't be... It would need a two-thirds town meeting vote approval to convey to transfer it to the care, custody, and control of another town to approve it. That's what it was. Oh, was it? Oh, okay. Because you needed a two-thirds vote or whatever. It couldn't be a popular vote. Well, it sounds like what we really need to do is drum up support, then. Can I follow up on Shannon's comment? You've got to develop this. Go ahead, go ahead, Cliff. Yeah, about the commission. I mean, I think it would be incumbent on us and a feather in our cap if we could start to look at how to tie these things together or some sort of initiative that we could propose on how to do these things. I mean, that would seem to me to be well inside the purview of conservation is to start to plan this out. You mean in particular if what we kept the Holiday Road piece connected? Whatever we decide as a committee would be beneficial for the community, for pathways. I mean, that would be a terrific thing to do. And Cal Common sits in there and you could tie it into the town center, into the rail trail, and all kind of neat stuff. Right. But yes, I think that would require at this point school committee approval is cooperation. Right now it's theirs. And so we can certainly educate folks. And hey, by the way, if we kept it in school committee, here's what we'd like to consider. And so yeah, having that preliminary thought of what we would give the school committee as reasons why, sure. Yeah. Sean, do you know anybody on the school committee who would be open to this? I want to say open. I can totally send along to school committee to hang. We could make a case too. Sure. Yeah, I can send it along. Okay. Yep. Shannon, have you given this idea of yours any deeper thought? I literally came up with this on the spot. So what you've heard me say is what I've come up with. You have a good thing on the spot. If you think about it a long time, you'll have some really good ideas. Yeah, I'm happy. I think we'll just give you some homework, Shannon. I like it, but I think I've been writing a little homework. So I'm happy to. I might reach out to a couple of you guys on the commission as well to brainstorm and go harass Linda as well in the office. So maybe I'll pick some brains and collectively we can come up with stuff and put it together. That'd be great. I think last fiscal year we had a money for an intern and that was the plan was to try to develop a cross Wayland path and with the use of existing lands, with the use of bridal paths, cart paths, things like that. And because Janelle was, I was going to work with Janelle also on Orchard Lane that she's a bridal path person. And, you know, we had two, three interviews lined up and we had three no-shows. I mean, it was the most amazing thing. This was a paid internship and we couldn't find people who were even the least bit interested to do this. So. Linda, what age do we start for paid internship? How old do you have to be? Well, this was, we were going after people that were in a graduate level, you know, like environmental planning, you know, that's what, that's where we were advertising was in schools that offer environmental planning degrees. And usually those were at a graduate level. So here we had, again, we had, you know, $12,000 to work on a few months, you know, with the work for that, but it was, it just went flat, you know, it was unbelievable. I was kind of surprised that there was no, no, no interest in that. So. This will really surprise you. But when I was on the board of public works, we had a group of eighth graders do some really nice work. And I could go into that as to what they did. And they, they actually were very instrumental in, in, in providing some guidance to, to projects. And, you know, the eighth graders are not stupid. And they were. No, I was just saying, that's what I was just saying, Cliff, that we, I had, I've had two phone calls so far from eighth graders trying to come up with the civils, civics project. So yeah, we can, if we can brainstorm on that at some point, that'd be great. I mean, we were thinking about that today, how we could, how we could manage that, you know, or how, what we could come up with for them. So if you guys, anybody here in the commission has a good idea, I'm more than happy to pass it along. So. Could, could we get input from the eighth graders about what, like, I don't know what they like, like, what, what would they, what, how sophisticated or non-sophisticated do we get with. Don't underestimate them would be my advice. Don't underestimate them. No, you bet. Don't not do that. Boys wanted to build a boardwalk and they wanted to do some sort of a, you know, like wheelchair accessible boardwalk to maybe herd pond, but they're not getting any response from U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. So I said, well, there's gotta be other boardwalks that we can build somewhere. There's a few that we, you know, few really wet areas that we could probably do that. We could, the boardwalk that we did put on the COA trail that leads from the COA to how common has a boardwalk, but it's not ADA accessible. So if they wanted to do that and make, make some ramps there, that, that was one idea, but that's really not a huge project either. So, you know, they could build a kiosk for us there if they wanted. So, I mean, I think they were looking into building things so, um, or, you know, we could have them build them out, an outdoor classroom for us, I guess, at a 25-year-olds. They could plan stuff for us too. Yeah. We could give them guidance. Yeah. I'd love input. Like if we're coming up with stuff, it would be nice to have, I really don't know anything about kids or what they do in school at all. So any kind of input on that could be good if we're trying to come up with stuff. Maybe what Jenny probably has experience with that, huh? What do kids want to do? Something fun though. I mean, there has to be a little bit of a fun aspect to it and rewarding, you know, something that they feel their, their, their work is very rewarding. So I think those are two part pieces that we have to, you know, make sure we're included in any project. So, well, I'll just have some kind of contest where they have to, to walk and touch all the trail, wild trails in Weyland, almost like kind of like a, like a, like a internal maze in Weyland and see how, see how they can do it. See how connected they can make all the trails in Weyland, something like that. Or even provide a social media post, you know, go hit every single property we own and, and, and find something interesting to post or, I mean, you know, there's, there's all kinds of things I think we could probably come up with. That's actually not a bad idea. Cause you could like post it and say now, now, if only you could connect from one to the other without having to go out on the main road and, um, or drive from one place to the next, because it's great. That's one great thing about Weyland is for most people, you can walk out the door and be pretty close to conservation land and walk. Um, but to be able to do, you know, longer walks and hikes and get to know your town. And I think it's a great idea. My son likes to, um, catch all the Pokemon on the trails. Like with Pokemon go, there's Pokemon hanging out on all the trails and he catches all of them. I've heard of Pokemon.
Yeah. Um, all right. So, so just email again, just a quick little reminder from the new folks. We can never respond to an email. So send all ideas to Linda. Again, we can't respond to a group email. That's open meeting violation. So, um, throw them out to Linda and Linda, you know, we can maybe talk about them in my next meeting or whatever, but get some ideas flown. Uh, all right. We're on 4B. This is discussion for next step of second generation anticoagulant or denticide policies. Linda, you want to kick this one off? Yeah. We tried to submit a, a, a Warren article this year for, that was, that was a resolution last year for banning ESCARS. Emily put some work into, um, developing a, a Warren article that was consistent with the pesticide bylaw. Uh, and then that ran into another snafu, which is they, they felt that, uh, um, that system town manager wanted us to take a vote on this to support this. And I said, we did, we did like two years ago already, you know, we've, we've voted on this before, but she didn't, she wouldn't accept the vote that was two years old. And, and of course I didn't find this out until the night before they were due. And there was no way that we could vote on them anymore, uh, on that, on that Warren article. So it kind of just fell flat, but we had a good suggestion from another staff member here that says that it should just be part of every contract, you know, that any contract that we issue to, through the schools, through, you know, municipal housing, through public works, whatever, you know, has, has a clause in there that says, you know, you can't use us cars, period, you know, especially if you're going to do something to, you know, to your, your, especially using a pesticide company to do this, that, and the other thing, you know, there just has to be, um, you know, really clear language. And, um, um, I think, I think, um, Shannon and I, and whoever else wants to join in, maybe we could come up with some good, clear contact, contract language for the town to use. So, um, uh, great. But in the meantime, I just roll back real quick, kind of a point of order. Um, is it the assistant town manager's role to discuss what we decide passes like, or is that, is that normal? Like, I feel like that's kind of, we, we glazed over the fact that someone, I feel that's not her, that's not her role. Is that my, or am I missing something? It didn't sound like they put up that kind of fight last year when we didn't vote on it and submitted it because we'd already voted on it. So it's.
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I'm, I guess I'm, uh, not to, I, I, I like to take that and make a stick on that. Who is she to stop our vote from being on to having to wait another year? That's not her role. Correct. Or my, or am I wrong before I go barking for tree? I mean, you know, we, uh, the reason I sent that to her to begin with was because there was a question about enforcement, who is enforcing this, this, this particular bylaw, you know, this pesticide bylaw. So somebody is using ESGARs in the, in the town of Wayland, whose job is it to go after them and say, you can't do that? You know, so that was one of my reasons for actually sending her the bylaw to begin with a draft one to weigh in on that. And, and it didn't turn out, you know, she didn't weigh in on the enforcement section. She just weighed in on the fact that, you know, we hadn't voted on that, you know, and we hadn't voted on it for two years and that she thought we needed, it was her opinion. We needed a current vote in order to put it forth on the, on this year's Warren article. That was not, that was not a town council opinion. That was, that was her opinion. So. So I'll go back to my original question. Yeah. Is that her, is that her role? Well, it's a select board's prerogative of what goes on the war. And maybe they've delegated that responsibility to her. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. What's crazy is that this is very popular with it. Like there's a reason that literally the townspeople came up with a resolution last year and then enthusiastically passed it. Like they went above and beyond. So there's the townspeople demonstrated that they want this anyway. It's wild that the town to be moving goalposts like this, to make it harder for us to do this. Well, again, does that sound like, sound like one person with a goalpost. So I just want to make sure I'm brought up the right tree. I'm not, I'm not letting this slide. This is not, sound like not her jurisdiction. So I just want to make sure I'm, I'm not, I'm correcting my, uh, thoughts before I, no, I'm not on that slide. You know, it's too late to do anything about it now. So that's, that's, that's a biggie. Um, so, um, okay. I mean, I did send you, I think you and Shane both got the email that I got, which was that she suggested that the town clerk, um, submit it because she is allowed to submit it without, you know, obviously she has nobody to vote on it. But of course I didn't get that email until after Wednesday, Wednesday night, they would do the next morning and our town clerk was on vacation. So it made it also, also an impossibility for me to do that. You know, if I'm finding out the last minute that, um, Trudy, our town clerk can submit it, but she's not there. So, um, that was also, you know, so, you know, we, we ran into two snafus, not just one, you know, in this one, so 40, like, but, um, at least 49 towns across Massachusetts have made restrictions or bans on the municipal use of escards. And a lot of them didn't do it by, by vote, um, because it's just municipal land. And, you know, some towns have even expressed surprise that we went to the trouble of trying to get that vote. And we did it a lot for public outreach and education, but we can do that through newspaper articles and newsletters. So since a lot of wild lives are killed all of the time by the use of these, like I'd love for us to pursue alternatives and, and Sean, I know you and I, um, you gave me some suggestions about coming up with, um, an email. So I'm actually putting that together and I'm backing it up with alternative solutions, um, that people could use and basically creating like the, the note, um, and an info package that we could distribute to people to try to make this case internally in town, whoever the decision makers are that need to do this. Like, I I'd rather we didn't wait another year. Like, let's just, let's make this happen. No, I agree. Because I think with the town manager act, I don't see how, I don't think we necessarily have to go through town. Meaning for us, it was more of a public education campaign at the same time by having it done in a public form like that. But, but I mean, I don't see any reason why we can't just go in front of the select board, put it on their agenda and say, I want you guys to vote on a policy to ban ask cars for municipal purposes, period, you know, any municipal land. So that might be an easier solution even so, but I think it's also, we should embed in their contract language so that it is, you know, it's not just a policy, but it's, it's, we have a way of implementing this policy, you know, so does that make sense? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the email I'm having Shannon put together is kind of the, the back storage. So when I send it to the select board, they understand kind of, this is not us doing one off. We've already, this is already done deal. We want you to, you know, codify us essentially. So yeah, I, you know, I don't see why they wouldn't, but yeah, that's what this email is kind of designed to do. So yeah. And as for the contract language, Linda, I'd love to help, but I don't know how to do contracts. Does anybody, does anybody else? Does that have to watch in? Like Linda was saying that she'd love help to come up with sort of some of the language that could go into a contract. Um, but I like, like with, um, service providers for the town, but I don't, the contract ease is not my strong suit. So. Is that something we can find, you know, online or Linda, do you have some contacts in other towns that have adopted this and maybe they can share the contact contract language with us? Yeah, we could do something like that. Let's be, I think it would just be a condition of the contract. Yeah. We've got several attorneys on board select. So if we think they're going to say, okay, we accept this work. Like, I mean, so we'll get on the, uh, the infrastructure. They're going to want to do their own thing. Yeah. Um, in the frame of what we're giving. So, yep. Um, okay. Um, thank you, Shannon, for kind of putting that, uh, yeah, sorry for the, uh, the hiccup there, but I will, I will make sure that they understand that regardless of what we can't do now, I don't want that, that happening again. Yeah. I'll get sent into Linda and I, I'd love some eyes on it just to make sure, um, says the right things. To the right people. Cool. Yeah. Um, and by the way, Jenny took me a text. She apologizes. Her computer just crashed. She said it must be because she was, she was talking so much to computer must not know what, not, not to know what to do on this, in this meeting, um, just trying to get back on. Um, all right. Anything else? I don't have anything else on my end. Um, last two things. Well, the Route 20 South visioning landfill visioning sessions, there's another one scheduled for February 17th at six. They were looking for public input and how, what to do with the Route 20 South landfill. And so we do have, um, uh, we have a person, um, um, uh, Seema, who was our intern for the Bobbling project. We actually asked her to be on that committee and represent the conservation commission. But if any of you have want to join the meeting, or if you want to, um, you know, give Seema some ideas of what, how best we could use that landfill, um, I'm more than happy to accept those. Didn't Brian make up a thing, Brian? I'm happy to take whatever our group says. I mean, there are a lot of considerations there for conservation uses already if you've been following the, the, the proceedings of that group. No, I haven't. Oh, okay. Well, you know, conservation is, is, is not represented by, by anyone on the conservation commission explicitly, but the ideas and the thoughts are well represented. Okay. I know the only thing I heard is that, that housing was out of the question just because housing isn't going to work. We, we, we, we just tried and tried and tried and tried and tried and it just cost prohibitive to, to take out all the, the landfill stuff and it just wasn't going to work. So that's a shame, but you know, there, there should be a, a way to incorporate the birding and trails and access to the rail trail and, and a lot of conservation things. They're not exclusively conservation because we want to put in a field and, you know, parks from school buses and stuff, but there's a lot of, a lot of considerations for conservation activities. And I think because the rail trail is going to be on the backside of this and next to the riverfront and the water and the wetlands. I mean, that's, that's every people coming from Sudbury. This is going to be their first, you know, see what they see of Wayland. And I think it would be really, really nice to have a, a really robust, nice area back there. And it is the best birding and way of the whole Washbrook area. So let's, let's, let's make some enhancement to that because right now they just destroyed that entire area, the whole priority habitat with their work. So, you know, it's not because they wanted to, that was mass DEP that said you have to do this. So that's what we did. And they went well beyond where they were supposed to go. They went into somebody else's property. That was not, that's not town land what they destroyed. That's, that's, that's. Wait, wait, wait, who, who are you speaking about? That what, what DPW just went in and cleared that whole area in the back. That, that's not town land what they cleared. They cleared somebody else's land and they, they didn't, they weren't supposed to do that. So I can show you pictures, Cliff. I was out there. Yeah. So. I don't know how much of the site you're, you're speaking of, but the, the, the vast bulk of it is the old landfill. Oh, I know. But the area next to the rail trail, which is what, what I think should. It should be enhanced and should have a really nice, you know, vegetation and, you know, birding and all that other stuff. All that was cleared in the last month. So. Oh, in the last month. Oh, what was, what was the reason for that? Was that because NASDEP wanted to take some samples there or something? I don't know, but I mean, they cleared right up to the railroad tracks and that's all MBTA land and they, they weren't supposed to do that. So. Linda, I don't think I'm super up to date on this, but I'd love to help brainstorm. Can I crash the offices again and get up to speed on this? It's always open. Shannon, we're always open.
Okay.
Anything else? We already heard from public comment. Make sure. Where's the, no one's hands raised.
Okay. Last thing. The minutes for January 28th, 2026. Barbara, we're good to go there. So. So I was, I'm concerned. Anyone want to argue with that? No, I made a few editorial changes this afternoon. So what you're seeing is, has, there's just a couple, a period here, you know, maybe a change of a word or something. That's very, very, very minor. So. They look good to me. Okay. Everyone make the motion to approve the minutes for January 28th, 2026, please. So moved. Thank you, Luke. Do I hear a second? Second. Second. Thank you, Cliff. Roll call, please. Luke Legere. Yes. Barbara Howell. Yes. Shannon Fischer. Yes. Lisa Aubin. Yes. Cliff Lewis. You bet. And Sean Ferris. Yes.
Anything else? Anybody? All right. Looking for then a motion to adjourn, please, for the evening. So moved. Thank you, Luke. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Cliff. Roll call, please. Luke Legere. Yes. Barbara Howell. Yes. Shannon Fischer. Yes. Lisa Aubin. Yes. Cliff Lewis. Yes, sir. And Sean Ferris. Yes. All right, folks. We're all set. Thank you.