June 2, 2026 – Design Review Board – Video & Transcript
June 2, 2026 - Design Review Board
Well, it's 7-0-1.
We have a quorum calling the meeting to order.
I presume it's being recorded.
Yeah, it started when I got on.
Yeah, and it's the meeting of the Design Review Advisory Board.
And the first item on the agenda, excuse me, for coughing,
is to review the meeting notes from our last meeting,
which was April 28th, I think.
And does anybody have any comments or edits to make?
I don't think I saw them.
Did you send them?
I presumed I did, but I can pull them up right now. That was a meeting where we basically just signed on and approved the last minutes.
According to this, we adjourned at 7-47. Well, so it was a longer meeting. So it went on pretty long. Yeah. So, well, we can just defer it. We'll bring it up to the next meeting, I guess.
I can look for it and send it right now. Yeah, we only have so many days. Once we've had a meeting, we only have so many days to approve them. So, all right. But. Here it is.
There, the PDF. I will come to both of you right now.
Send.
Sorry about that. Okay. I thought I had, but maybe not.
Yeah, it's thoroughly long. Then we reviewed 21 Cachichuot Road, the townhouse, which was the. Oh, yep. Oh, okay. Yes. Which was the old town building, town, whatever they call it, town hall. They call it townhouse, I guess. Yeah.
I haven't received it yet. So, Robin, if you ever received it. Ah, received it. No. Yes. Yeah, just came in. Let me see. We also reviewed a little bit on the, the design guidelines. Yeah.
Yeah, those look fine.
Yeah.
You all right with them, Tanya? Yeah. All right. So, I move that we approve the meeting minutes from April 28th, 2026 as written. I second it.
Will those in favor? Yes. Aye. Yeah, aye. Okay.
Thank you. So, we'll move on to the next one, which is the application for the 14 West Plain Road signage. I don't know if you've seen this.
Yeah. Sign. Yeah. I came in the world. Asset strategy. I don't know if someone's here representing the app. Yeah. I think it's at Kent. So, Robbie, can you elevate Kent? Yes, I can.
And I assume the other person that says iPhone work might also be. Okay.
Do that the right way? Yes. Oh, good. I wasn't sure it gave me the choice of either panelist or attendee. So, hopefully I did the right thing here. Would you like to explain your application? Sure. Happy to. Just take care of my screen here for a second. There we go. Yeah, I'm Kent Fitzpatrick. We just bought the property just right at the end of the year. It was the Presky Flint building, which they had sold their CPA practice to UHY. We had put a temporary sign over their existing sign and then worked with a sign company to come up with a sign that we thought would be fitting for the neighborhood. And we have a financial services firm and we have a couple of other businesses. We have a real estate consulting firm. We have one of the country's oldest financial newsletters called Money Letter.
I'll have to say I'm very happy to have moved here. My office was in Natick for many, many years. We love the community. So, we wanted to get a new modern sign. And the sign that's there now, this is where I was confused in the application because it is an internally lit sign. And I learned from Robert through the application process that you don't allow internally lit signs. So, I'm happy to kind of modify to have an illuminated sign from the ground within the requirements. But what I did, and hopefully he forwarded a little more detail on the location because what I did initially, trying to be accurate, is I went outside and gave the longitude and latitude for where we want to relocate the sign. Because right now, the sign is not really centered to the building. It's, you know, and I want to center it a little bit more. So, hopefully he gave you that updated dimension because I went out this morning and actually measured the distance off of the building and tried to measure from the setback. And I guess I did have one question for the committee, which was the 15-foot setback. Is that from the edge of the sidewalk, the middle of the sidewalk, the edge of the road? Because I wasn't exactly sure where it was. No, it's unclear. It really is the property line. Okay, okay. That's something you kind of have to know that is the rule. Okay, got it. So, what I tried to do was there's an existing wall there. We have a little garden area between the wall and the sidewalk. So, I basically took a measurement from there. So, the existing sign in this diagram is on the left. It's, you know, outside of the setback. So, it's 5.5 feet, 5 and a half, 5.5 inches, 5 feet, 5 inches wide. And then, I guess this version is from the, to give you an alignment, is to the edge of the building. So, if you're facing the building from the street, the existing sign lines up with that edge. And where I put the proposed sign, again, respecting the 15-foot setback, 6 foot, 8 foot wide. And then, the distance to the building, because there's a jog, about an 8-foot jog, in the way that the building is designed. So, I measured off there. And it was roughly 40 feet, 8 inches. So, the current sign, you know, as I mentioned, is an internally lit sign. It's kind of more of a contemporary sign. And what I was trying to do was go for more of a, you know, kind of a colonial look. And I was trying to create more of a, you know, I guess the expression is a sandwich board sign. So, you know, asset strategy is our main business, main tenant. And then, for the subsidiary companies, we could include them as well. So, is that what those four white rectangles are for? Exactly, exactly. And these other names you have under the asset strategy, those tend to stay right the way they are. Yeah, that's just... I can't make out the long lines. So, we have a... I'll read it to you guys. We have a trademark tagline or logo or whatnot. What it says, and it's blurry from this image, helping you create, manage, protect, and distribute wealth. So, it's a trademark, you know, slogan that we have. And so, those other four are for future signs? Yeah, so, for example, and I wasn't sure if I should have included it in this or not, or just have where the names would go, would be, you know, Moneyletter is one of my business, you know, subtenants. It's our realty partners, advisors, and tax consultants. So, some of them have the asset strategy name, Moneyletter is by itself. And I did file a DBA with the town because Moneyletter, it's actually one of the country's oldest financial newsletters that's been in existence for 47 years. But the legal entity is asset strategy, Innovation Group, DBA, Moneyletter. So, I did file a DBA with the town recently as well. I missed something going back just a second. Sure. The existing sign is five foot five inches from what? The middle of the sidewalk, did you say? Well, the setback is 15 feet. If you go back to that image you were just sharing, I'll try to explain that.
Thank you. Yeah. So, if you see on the top left, sorry for my bad writing here. So, 15 feet is the setback. The sign itself is five foot five feet wide. And then the distance to the corner of the building is 48 feet. And so, where I would like to propose the sign would be 30 feet to the right. I don't know if we're facing north or south here. And it would be 15 feet, you know, off the setback. And the width would be six foot eight, as we were looking at in that last diagram. And the distance to the bump out of the front door is 40 feet, eight inches. Okay. So, for the record, it would help if you could track down your site plan that you probably got when you closed on the property. And that would show you where the actual property line is in relation to, you know, the building. Yeah, so, I think what happened was when I scanned this, it kind of, the image lost the building because it actually had a copy of the building and where the property line is. You made it out. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can re-send that to you. I wanted to give you a query. What would really help is if you identify what your setback is from the property line. You have to do a little subtraction there. Yeah, so, that's the 15 feet that I was measuring from. Yeah, but the 15 feet is to the center of the sidewalk, and that's not your property. No, no, no. I'm sorry. I was asking that question, but when I did the measurement, I measured it to the edge of our garden. So, I didn't go into the sidewalk. Okay. All right. Well, it's hard to say, even then, half your garden might be town property. You really, you know, just for the record, it would help to know where you are, just so we know what we're approving. Yeah. I mean, I'll certainly respect that, the setback, and I want it to be, you know, in keeping with the neighborhood, too. Yeah. Okay.
Tanya, did you have any questions about this? No.
Robin? No, I was happy to see that you switched it from internally lit to externally lit. It's just a softer. I am, too. We really are trying, too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Compliant, but it's also just a softer. If you're going for a more colonial look, it definitely gets there. Yeah, I agree. And I actually did drive around, or kind of walked around and drove around, you know, kind of the constituent neighborhood, and I saw there was a kind of a variety of signs that were, some had arms kind of sticking out, downlighting, some were kind of kind of reflecting up. So I think I would probably just go from the bottom up. And actually, I agree with you, because I was, I kind of went with what was there. So I don't know if the regs changed at some point, but I think the, you know, the soft illumination from the ground would be probably best. Yeah. That would be great. We usually ask for a catalog card or, you know, an image of what that sign will look like. And it also, very often, like that site plan you just showed us, would be useful to go in the file as well. Okay. Yeah, I'll update that. I'm sorry the image didn't scan. And put the light location on that. Okay. That'd be great. Okay. I like what you're doing with the signage, too. I agree with Robin. I'm happy to see what you're doing there. I think it's great.
The only thing I was going to just ask is, would you recommend that I put the street number, you know, on the sign itself? I know that sometimes that helps folks. Yeah, that's a big problem in town, especially for the fire department. It's hard for them to find the street number. Okay. So, the only change I would probably do is I just would put the number right up in the white area there. Yeah. Don, do you want to make a motion? Yes.
That we accept the application?
So, you want me to do it? Okay. Sure. So, I move that we recommend approval of the sign if a more detailed site plan is provided to the town planner. Ahead of the application to the ZBA.
Okay.
Yeah. I don't think it's a... Can we discuss it for a second? That we need to make the applicant come back for another hearing on this. No. It should be just straightforward.
Yep. So, do you want to second it, Tanya? Yes. I second it.
All right. All those in favor? Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Ken. Just a quick question, just because I'm new to town. So, what happens next? So, I'll get you the updated documentation you asked for. I think you go to the zoning board. Go to the zoning board? They approve final signage. Okay. And then, so is there a separate application or just I have to get on the agenda? Yes, unfortunately. Okay. Yeah, Robert can help you with all of that. Okay. Very good. Yeah. I'll get him all the updated things as well. All right. Well, thank you, everyone. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Ken. You too. Bye now. Good luck. Bye. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. It is 719. We can go on to the next.
This is the application for 41 Kachitra Road, which is the town building.
There was a flurry of emails back and forth. I'm not sure. I hope you got the ones I sent. Yes. Which are photographs of the existing building signage. Yep. And the signage across the street for the public safety building. Yep. I don't know if you can post those, Robin, or if you need to. Yeah. Let me open them up.
While you're doing it, I was trying to get across what, you know, those two signs are actually both visible from Route 20. And yet they're very different. They're both town signs. And I think that Mike Faya is correct in saying that we should have one sort of, you know, typical sign for town buildings in general. He wants to do it on the fire department down the Kachitra. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it would help with the way of finding as well. When you see them side by side, you see how different it is. And it's the same town right across the corner. Yep. So I think he's making a good point. He likes, so one option is just to use the same exact appearance, but he can make it smaller. The sign for the town building is one foot smaller, narrower than the one on the right. The public safety building sign itself is six feet wide, and the town building is five feet wide. So they're very similar in size. What he's thinking, you can picture it, is if you change the posts only on the town buildings, then you could have granite posts that pick up the same character to some extent. But it wouldn't be like, you know, business icons too, where they have it exactly the same for their identity, no matter where, you know, no matter what. So I think he leans in the direction of making it look like the public safety in font and lettering and the shape of the sign. But he would make it a foot smaller in width. So this would be square size, square shape? He'd get rid of the curve at the top, I assume. He would get rid of the curve at the end of the bottom. And just make it one sign. But the sign would have a lot more information on it. I think they'd still want to save Veterans Memorial and put the street address in as well. They should have done it on the public safety building, I think, in hindsight. Now then, the fire department requires everybody else to. Yeah, Bill, that's correct, Bill. I'm here. I'm the cell phone. Oh, good. Sorry. All right.
Thank you for having me. I didn't know you were going to join in. So I'm glad you can explain it better than I can then. No, you explained it perfectly. And, you know, if the committee would rather the sign look the same, I mean, we can keep the sign, it won't look as uniform, but, you know, if we could make it square or rectangular and add the granite posts and the information, like Bill said, add the number, the street number, we'd keep the Veterans Memorial on the bottom. The layout would be the same. It would just be a different looking sign to match what's across the street. And we've already ordered one for fire station two. We haven't, well, we haven't ordered, we designed it. We haven't ordered it yet. So if this does go through, I would, I would petition for that one as well. I'll go through what, you know, whatever permitting we had to do. Yeah. I think, I mean, I prefer that it'd be the rectangular to match the public safety building. I don't need the curves. Okay. Okay. What do you think, Tanya? The curve has certain charm, but maybe it's more suitable for the public building, like this, the more rectangle shape with granite posts. Okay.
Yeah. Like you wanted to make it out of PVC this time. Something that's just, just being a little, making it a little bit more maintenance free. The wood would need to be painted. The lettering is painted. This would be more of a PVC with letters that would be easily interchangeable. If we ever had to, not that we would, but it would just last a lot longer between the granite. And then the PVC sign, it'll look like wood. It's just plastic. Yeah. Sometimes the PVC is sort of shiny, but.
Well, we can certainly, you know, we, I can get samples of what we intend to use. So. No, it's fine. It's.
I guess I'd rather be shiny than in disrepair. I agree.
I know Tom Fay had asked me to, to spruce this up and paint it. And I was like, well, if we're going to go through all of that, we might as well just get some uniformity with the public buildings. So. Yeah. That's what I think it's a good idea. The, I had mentioned that it's really not completely consistent with our design guidelines effort to look like an antique building. You know, when we approve designs of buildings, but I think it's more important to have this consistency.
And. So I'm. Yeah. I think you get a three zero zero on that. There is also a mention of lights. So that it's not in the. We hadn't discussed yet. The, the, the building on the public safety building has a ground mounted light that shines up at the sign. Are you thinking I'm putting a light. If I, if I did build, it would have to be solar. We don't have any power out that far.
So, you know, it would help to know whether you're going to do that. Okay. Because part of the approval. Yep. I will. I'll investigate some solar lighting that looks similar to what public safety has. And it'd be an uplighting like we did at the COA for the flagpole. So if you kept the granite exact same size as the public safety building, it will slightly dwarf the sign a little bit because the sign is one foot less wide. I don't think it's that big a deal, but so I think you'd just keep there are seven inch wide posts. You might want to just keep them all the same scale, but that's your call, I guess. Okay. Yeah. When we go, when we, if we pull the trigger, when we pull the trigger on this, if it gets approved, I'll have a set of drawings that we can review bill, you know, and you can take a look at. Yeah. The other thing is the font. And I, I think to be truly like a logo, the font should be the same and you don't want to change it across the street. So I think that's how Vedica looks like Vedica to me on the public safety building. So you guys have any other questions, Tanya or Robin? No. And you know, the public safety building sign needs to be repainted unless you wanted to go with a more traditional font and repaint the public safety one at the same time. Well, those are vinyl letters applied to the, the lettering is vinyl. Oh, okay. just one comment regarding the lighting. If it's going to be a solar lighting on the ground, I doubt this would work through the winter, particularly when it's covered in snow. And particularly during the winter, you know, dark nights, it's that dark evenings. It's nice to have some easy way of finding. Yeah. Regarding that, Mike, do they ever have any, have any trouble with snow on the ground with a ground mounted light? Sometimes people have problems with it. I, I, the public safety light, I was buried for most of the winter bill. I don't know if anybody dug it out. So it may not be a good idea to have it on the ground like that. Probably better to, you know, one type of light is like a gooseneck or two goosenecks, one on either side. Otherwise, or you could have the light on a taller pole so that only a giant snow drift would bury it. Okay. And that's up. You guys figure out what you want to do. All right. Yeah. Once, once we get a design, like I said, I'm, I'm happy to, to, to repropose it and we can take a look at it. Yeah. I mean, this isn't a formal application before us yet, is it? No, this was more of just the fact finding. Yeah. Okay. Just checking. Yep. No, I appreciate it. Any other questions guys? Nope.
Well, I'm glad you came to explain it. Michael. Yep. No, like I said, thanks for having me, Bill. Okay. Let's, that ends that application discussion. You're going to have somebody drill little holes in the side of the granite post so that you can stick the flags in? You know, I didn't, I was going to bring that up. But then you get water in there and it freezes. I think the veterans, they added little brackets to the back of that wooden sign with holes in them for the flags. Yeah. We can investigate that. That was an afterthought. Yeah. No, we'll investigate it and see what we can do with the granite. Somebody may, I'm sure it's been done before. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thanks. You too.
All right. It's a 731 and we can,
we're on the agenda for going over the design guidelines at 735. Do we have to wait? I guess so. Yeah. Let's see if I can open this. Oh, so Robert, Robert sent me a version. He doesn't think it's the most recent one, but he sent, he sent me one and I could open it.
That's encouraging. I know.
None of them, the one I sent you. Yeah, that was weird. It was out of SharePoint and that's why, but.
There's mine.
The, but I can, I think I can talk generically before we have the, well, maybe I shouldn't. Now the issues are about the, the project started a long time ago. And it's, it keeps increasing in scope. I think that I had hoped to, as you both recall, that we had six items that we just wanted to tweak and keep everything else and just kind of update a few items. And at this point, I think it's like, we're on the verge of a complete overhaul of the entire document.
Yeah.
This one looks, it's, this one looks old to me. It, but it is. Cause we did make a few changes. Yeah. I mean, it says 2026 revision. Yeah. What, what number though? Mine, the one I'm working on is revision.
Seven. Oh, five 22. And that's what it doesn't even say. Oh yeah. So she started labeling them. Yes. I think it's before. Yeah. I mean, it's useful reference if you have nothing at all, but I can walk you guys through what, what the key items are. And I, I think that we don't have to spend a lot of time on it. We can just basically hit the highlight issues in two more minutes about that, that we could take on in our next meeting.
Going back to Mike, I'm glad we were able to give him very specific suggestions that they won't have to revise anything when she, when he goes forward with it. Yeah.
He could scale those posts back to, you know, like six inch because your sign is smaller and then it wouldn't be as noticeable that the sign is smaller.
Yep. Let me see what version I have.
I think we worked on one more recently than the one that Robert just sent me. Oh, probably. Yeah. Let's see.
All right. It's time. We can start talking about it.
Yep.
So the one you don't have, the latest one, the one you, when you have probably does have this, all the front end information has been updated. And I don't think there's anything to discuss about that. It's nothing to dispute about or weigh in.
Then it goes to the next page is the members. And they ask for contact information in case people want to get involved. And then there's the table of contents. So none of that has to change. Yeah. Robin, maybe could you bring it on the screen? I can. Oh, good. All right. Which one? This one. So the one I had on my computer is, let me back up. there's a table. It's from February 4th. Okay. Yeah. There's the date.
Okay. So, so what's probably not on the next page, scroll up one more and see if there's a map. No. All right. So what we had talked about doing was putting a map that would be visible right opposite the page. They had all the, had the buildings photographs shown back there. Yeah. So I'll write opposite that on the left would be the buildings and on the right would be the map. And, um, uh, Nina is now, uh, the map that I had done way back in 2012 was just a zoning district map. And we took the zoning districts and we put a new IDOD in front of each district number. And I, because I didn't want to mess with a system that, it already exists. Yep. And, um, I think it just leads to less confusion. If someone's dealing with a zoning board and they, they want to, they're in a certain district, we should use the same numbering. I think that's in the zoning bylaws. Yeah. Um, but Anita pointed out just the last meeting, uh, about a week and a half ago, when we go for last Friday, um, that the historic district, there's an inconsistency in the zoning map that, that basically has districts clearly defined. But when you get to historic district, it's not a separate district. It's really an overlay district. It's, and so, so it's, um, it's, it's inconsistent. And she was thinking that we should just take it out. And I'm thinking, you know, I don't want to mess with the numbering system. So I, I want you guys to think about that too. I still prefer to stay with the numbering system, even though it's not completely consistent with itself. Hmm. And I thought what we could do is, uh, on the next page, have a list of overlay districts. Cause now there are a lot of those and that's not on that zoning map either. Right. And so we would have zoning districts, we call them Z, whatever, keep the numbers. And then we'd have overlay districts and we could basically sort of make it clear that the historic district is an overlay district, but, um, but it has its own number. Yeah. I think that if you're going to include the map, I think you have to make it its own page because if you make it a part of a page, it's so small. I mean, it's so hard to, to get, make heads or tail of it. Even when you see it blown up, if you make it a partial page, you won't even be able to tell what's what. We were making it a whole page, but even then it's very hard to read everything. Oh yeah. The print is really fine. Yeah. Um, I think that's a good point. What I forgot to mention is that Anina was thinking that we should do a separate map for the overlay districts, not try and add even more complexity to the zoning map, which, yeah. And I, I think that makes sense too. Yeah. Yeah.
Anyway, that's food for thought. And I just, we don't have to solve anything tonight, but it is something that we're discussing. Yeah. We were going, I remember when we had this discussion, we were going to take a new picture of this building. Cause it looks so much better now. Yeah. I'm still waiting for them to finish it. Yeah. Since we have a fence up and everything and they're going to be done pretty soon. So yeah. Landscaping is all in. Yeah. I agree with that.
And I don't think it makes sense to do before and after. Cause I didn't really change the building at all. No. Um,
yeah, no, definitely don't need before and after, but if we want it as an example of, you know, of what is now a much nicer looking building. I mean, in this picture, the sign's even crooked.
Yeah. That whole kiosk in the middle is a nightmare. Yeah. It's gone now. That's gone. Yeah. Yeah. That one where this sign is, that's still here, but now it's all landscaped. Yes. It's this, it's this one here. It's this one here that's now out.
So anyway, so we should replace that picture. Yeah.
Um, so the only other thing that I think, um, and Nina and I kicked back and forth was that we thought that every IDOD district could have its own page. And right now we have, we have that, uh, district near my house, for example, that is a, uh, roadside business district. Yeah. And we don't even have any photographs of those buildings. And it's, it makes sense because there's really not much. No, it's just leaves going on there. There's not, there's no other buildable sites, um, that would be allowed. Yeah. So, but if, if we wanted to be consistent, we could show those, but I don't, I don't, I think it's a lot of work that doesn't really help the document. Yeah. I mean, they're, I think just giving them the right amount of space, you know, some of them like this first one, limited manufacturing, which is, you know, a lot of that part of the center of town can have a little more space, but roadside business doesn't need more space. Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah. Um, the only benefit would be that it shows that even the buildings in those districts are consistent with the new England, uh, style that we're talking, the village style that we're trying to go for. Yeah. Most of them are really pretty consistent without, and that's all happened without us asking them to, they basically look around and they say, this is, we want to fit in and they design something that fits. Yeah.
Um, it's, I agree with you, Robin, that they don't all have to have the building shown. of what, you know, what district looks like, what. Yeah. But I mean, there may be some where we can find, yeah, there may be some where we can find a good example and add that in. Yeah. Um, okay.
So, um, so those, those were the two major questions. I don't know if you have any others that you want to bring up again today. No, I don't, I don't think so.
Oh, here's map of the districts. You have it in this, thing. It's at the end, but yeah, it's a different place. Yeah. And, uh, go, uh, scroll back with this, um, building. We talked previous visit, maybe you'll replace this picture. Which one? The, the, I don't number 10 in town center down here. Yeah. Yeah. We had talked about a different picture for that. Yes, you did. And I just haven't, I've, I've driven by a few times in the middle of the day. Right now is a good time to get rid of that shadow and take a different angle. I, the reason I, I know you pointed out that it's the back of the building, but it is, it does have that sort of rambling add on style that, uh, that you don't see in the front. No,
but yeah, I'll get a better shot of that and show you a few options. Yep. And I did put in a different one of that, uh, gas station that's down in constituent. Yep. It's, uh, not all in shadow. It's a little better.
Okay. I'm trying to think of which one that was. It's not in here now. Uh, I don't know if it is either. No, it's not in this version. Okay.
That's all I have to ask tonight on that topic.
Oh, yeah, it was down here that we were. Yeah, there it is. The big shadowy, uh, I caught it during the day, a different time of day. And it's earlier in the morning. You get sunlight on it. Yep. Okay. Is there anything else to discuss? I can't think of anything else. It sounds really modern style. We have plenty of building for this in my neighborhood. There is. Yeah. On the locker street, there is a row of building in a sanctuary style. Oh, please send me some photographs. We can definitely include them. Uh, couple of them, the, the, the, the, the renovation, like incredibly nice kind of, you know, good. Good. Good. I will.
Okay. All right. Uh, no, I'm supposed to not ask this question anymore. I guess the matter is not reasonably anticipated because it begs the question for getting an unannounced topic. So we're going to drop that from the next agenda. All right. Anyone want to make a motion to adjourn?
I move to adjourn. I second. Thank you. All right. It is 746 and we are now adjourned. All those in favor. Yes. All right. Good night, Robbie. Good night. Thank you.
I presumed I did, but I can pull them up right now. That was a meeting where we basically just signed on and approved the last minutes.
According to this, we adjourned at 7-47. Well, so it was a longer meeting. So it went on pretty long. Yeah. So, well, we can just defer it. We'll bring it up to the next meeting, I guess.
I can look for it and send it right now. Yeah, we only have so many days. Once we've had a meeting, we only have so many days to approve them. So, all right. But. Here it is.
There, the PDF. I will come to both of you right now.
Send.
Sorry about that. Okay. I thought I had, but maybe not.
Yeah, it's thoroughly long. Then we reviewed 21 Cachichuot Road, the townhouse, which was the. Oh, yep. Oh, okay. Yes. Which was the old town building, town, whatever they call it, town hall. They call it townhouse, I guess. Yeah.
I haven't received it yet. So, Robin, if you ever received it. Ah, received it. No. Yes. Yeah, just came in. Let me see. We also reviewed a little bit on the, the design guidelines. Yeah.
Yeah, those look fine.
Yeah.
You all right with them, Tanya? Yeah. All right. So, I move that we approve the meeting minutes from April 28th, 2026 as written. I second it.
Will those in favor? Yes. Aye. Yeah, aye. Okay.
Thank you. So, we'll move on to the next one, which is the application for the 14 West Plain Road signage. I don't know if you've seen this.
Yeah. Sign. Yeah. I came in the world. Asset strategy. I don't know if someone's here representing the app. Yeah. I think it's at Kent. So, Robbie, can you elevate Kent? Yes, I can.
And I assume the other person that says iPhone work might also be. Okay.
Do that the right way? Yes. Oh, good. I wasn't sure it gave me the choice of either panelist or attendee. So, hopefully I did the right thing here. Would you like to explain your application? Sure. Happy to. Just take care of my screen here for a second. There we go. Yeah, I'm Kent Fitzpatrick. We just bought the property just right at the end of the year. It was the Presky Flint building, which they had sold their CPA practice to UHY. We had put a temporary sign over their existing sign and then worked with a sign company to come up with a sign that we thought would be fitting for the neighborhood. And we have a financial services firm and we have a couple of other businesses. We have a real estate consulting firm. We have one of the country's oldest financial newsletters called Money Letter.
I'll have to say I'm very happy to have moved here. My office was in Natick for many, many years. We love the community. So, we wanted to get a new modern sign. And the sign that's there now, this is where I was confused in the application because it is an internally lit sign. And I learned from Robert through the application process that you don't allow internally lit signs. So, I'm happy to kind of modify to have an illuminated sign from the ground within the requirements. But what I did, and hopefully he forwarded a little more detail on the location because what I did initially, trying to be accurate, is I went outside and gave the longitude and latitude for where we want to relocate the sign. Because right now, the sign is not really centered to the building. It's, you know, and I want to center it a little bit more. So, hopefully he gave you that updated dimension because I went out this morning and actually measured the distance off of the building and tried to measure from the setback. And I guess I did have one question for the committee, which was the 15-foot setback. Is that from the edge of the sidewalk, the middle of the sidewalk, the edge of the road? Because I wasn't exactly sure where it was. No, it's unclear. It really is the property line. Okay, okay. That's something you kind of have to know that is the rule. Okay, got it. So, what I tried to do was there's an existing wall there. We have a little garden area between the wall and the sidewalk. So, I basically took a measurement from there. So, the existing sign in this diagram is on the left. It's, you know, outside of the setback. So, it's 5.5 feet, 5 and a half, 5.5 inches, 5 feet, 5 inches wide. And then, I guess this version is from the, to give you an alignment, is to the edge of the building. So, if you're facing the building from the street, the existing sign lines up with that edge. And where I put the proposed sign, again, respecting the 15-foot setback, 6 foot, 8 foot wide. And then, the distance to the building, because there's a jog, about an 8-foot jog, in the way that the building is designed. So, I measured off there. And it was roughly 40 feet, 8 inches. So, the current sign, you know, as I mentioned, is an internally lit sign. It's kind of more of a contemporary sign. And what I was trying to do was go for more of a, you know, kind of a colonial look. And I was trying to create more of a, you know, I guess the expression is a sandwich board sign. So, you know, asset strategy is our main business, main tenant. And then, for the subsidiary companies, we could include them as well. So, is that what those four white rectangles are for? Exactly, exactly. And these other names you have under the asset strategy, those tend to stay right the way they are. Yeah, that's just... I can't make out the long lines. So, we have a... I'll read it to you guys. We have a trademark tagline or logo or whatnot. What it says, and it's blurry from this image, helping you create, manage, protect, and distribute wealth. So, it's a trademark, you know, slogan that we have. And so, those other four are for future signs? Yeah, so, for example, and I wasn't sure if I should have included it in this or not, or just have where the names would go, would be, you know, Moneyletter is one of my business, you know, subtenants. It's our realty partners, advisors, and tax consultants. So, some of them have the asset strategy name, Moneyletter is by itself. And I did file a DBA with the town because Moneyletter, it's actually one of the country's oldest financial newsletters that's been in existence for 47 years. But the legal entity is asset strategy, Innovation Group, DBA, Moneyletter. So, I did file a DBA with the town recently as well. I missed something going back just a second. Sure. The existing sign is five foot five inches from what? The middle of the sidewalk, did you say? Well, the setback is 15 feet. If you go back to that image you were just sharing, I'll try to explain that.
Thank you. Yeah. So, if you see on the top left, sorry for my bad writing here. So, 15 feet is the setback. The sign itself is five foot five feet wide. And then the distance to the corner of the building is 48 feet. And so, where I would like to propose the sign would be 30 feet to the right. I don't know if we're facing north or south here. And it would be 15 feet, you know, off the setback. And the width would be six foot eight, as we were looking at in that last diagram. And the distance to the bump out of the front door is 40 feet, eight inches. Okay. So, for the record, it would help if you could track down your site plan that you probably got when you closed on the property. And that would show you where the actual property line is in relation to, you know, the building. Yeah, so, I think what happened was when I scanned this, it kind of, the image lost the building because it actually had a copy of the building and where the property line is. You made it out. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can re-send that to you. I wanted to give you a query. What would really help is if you identify what your setback is from the property line. You have to do a little subtraction there. Yeah, so, that's the 15 feet that I was measuring from. Yeah, but the 15 feet is to the center of the sidewalk, and that's not your property. No, no, no. I'm sorry. I was asking that question, but when I did the measurement, I measured it to the edge of our garden. So, I didn't go into the sidewalk. Okay. All right. Well, it's hard to say, even then, half your garden might be town property. You really, you know, just for the record, it would help to know where you are, just so we know what we're approving. Yeah. I mean, I'll certainly respect that, the setback, and I want it to be, you know, in keeping with the neighborhood, too. Yeah. Okay.
Tanya, did you have any questions about this? No.
Robin? No, I was happy to see that you switched it from internally lit to externally lit. It's just a softer. I am, too. We really are trying, too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Compliant, but it's also just a softer. If you're going for a more colonial look, it definitely gets there. Yeah, I agree. And I actually did drive around, or kind of walked around and drove around, you know, kind of the constituent neighborhood, and I saw there was a kind of a variety of signs that were, some had arms kind of sticking out, downlighting, some were kind of kind of reflecting up. So I think I would probably just go from the bottom up. And actually, I agree with you, because I was, I kind of went with what was there. So I don't know if the regs changed at some point, but I think the, you know, the soft illumination from the ground would be probably best. Yeah. That would be great. We usually ask for a catalog card or, you know, an image of what that sign will look like. And it also, very often, like that site plan you just showed us, would be useful to go in the file as well. Okay. Yeah, I'll update that. I'm sorry the image didn't scan. And put the light location on that. Okay. That'd be great. Okay. I like what you're doing with the signage, too. I agree with Robin. I'm happy to see what you're doing there. I think it's great.
The only thing I was going to just ask is, would you recommend that I put the street number, you know, on the sign itself? I know that sometimes that helps folks. Yeah, that's a big problem in town, especially for the fire department. It's hard for them to find the street number. Okay. So, the only change I would probably do is I just would put the number right up in the white area there. Yeah. Don, do you want to make a motion? Yes.
That we accept the application?
So, you want me to do it? Okay. Sure. So, I move that we recommend approval of the sign if a more detailed site plan is provided to the town planner. Ahead of the application to the ZBA.
Okay.
Yeah. I don't think it's a... Can we discuss it for a second? That we need to make the applicant come back for another hearing on this. No. It should be just straightforward.
Yep. So, do you want to second it, Tanya? Yes. I second it.
All right. All those in favor? Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Ken. Just a quick question, just because I'm new to town. So, what happens next? So, I'll get you the updated documentation you asked for. I think you go to the zoning board. Go to the zoning board? They approve final signage. Okay. And then, so is there a separate application or just I have to get on the agenda? Yes, unfortunately. Okay. Yeah, Robert can help you with all of that. Okay. Very good. Yeah. I'll get him all the updated things as well. All right. Well, thank you, everyone. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Ken. You too. Bye now. Good luck. Bye. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. It is 719. We can go on to the next.
This is the application for 41 Kachitra Road, which is the town building.
There was a flurry of emails back and forth. I'm not sure. I hope you got the ones I sent. Yes. Which are photographs of the existing building signage. Yep. And the signage across the street for the public safety building. Yep. I don't know if you can post those, Robin, or if you need to. Yeah. Let me open them up.
While you're doing it, I was trying to get across what, you know, those two signs are actually both visible from Route 20. And yet they're very different. They're both town signs. And I think that Mike Faya is correct in saying that we should have one sort of, you know, typical sign for town buildings in general. He wants to do it on the fire department down the Kachitra. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it would help with the way of finding as well. When you see them side by side, you see how different it is. And it's the same town right across the corner. Yep. So I think he's making a good point. He likes, so one option is just to use the same exact appearance, but he can make it smaller. The sign for the town building is one foot smaller, narrower than the one on the right. The public safety building sign itself is six feet wide, and the town building is five feet wide. So they're very similar in size. What he's thinking, you can picture it, is if you change the posts only on the town buildings, then you could have granite posts that pick up the same character to some extent. But it wouldn't be like, you know, business icons too, where they have it exactly the same for their identity, no matter where, you know, no matter what. So I think he leans in the direction of making it look like the public safety in font and lettering and the shape of the sign. But he would make it a foot smaller in width. So this would be square size, square shape? He'd get rid of the curve at the top, I assume. He would get rid of the curve at the end of the bottom. And just make it one sign. But the sign would have a lot more information on it. I think they'd still want to save Veterans Memorial and put the street address in as well. They should have done it on the public safety building, I think, in hindsight. Now then, the fire department requires everybody else to. Yeah, Bill, that's correct, Bill. I'm here. I'm the cell phone. Oh, good. Sorry. All right.
Thank you for having me. I didn't know you were going to join in. So I'm glad you can explain it better than I can then. No, you explained it perfectly. And, you know, if the committee would rather the sign look the same, I mean, we can keep the sign, it won't look as uniform, but, you know, if we could make it square or rectangular and add the granite posts and the information, like Bill said, add the number, the street number, we'd keep the Veterans Memorial on the bottom. The layout would be the same. It would just be a different looking sign to match what's across the street. And we've already ordered one for fire station two. We haven't, well, we haven't ordered, we designed it. We haven't ordered it yet. So if this does go through, I would, I would petition for that one as well. I'll go through what, you know, whatever permitting we had to do. Yeah. I think, I mean, I prefer that it'd be the rectangular to match the public safety building. I don't need the curves. Okay. Okay. What do you think, Tanya? The curve has certain charm, but maybe it's more suitable for the public building, like this, the more rectangle shape with granite posts. Okay.
Yeah. Like you wanted to make it out of PVC this time. Something that's just, just being a little, making it a little bit more maintenance free. The wood would need to be painted. The lettering is painted. This would be more of a PVC with letters that would be easily interchangeable. If we ever had to, not that we would, but it would just last a lot longer between the granite. And then the PVC sign, it'll look like wood. It's just plastic. Yeah. Sometimes the PVC is sort of shiny, but.
Well, we can certainly, you know, we, I can get samples of what we intend to use. So. No, it's fine. It's.
I guess I'd rather be shiny than in disrepair. I agree.
I know Tom Fay had asked me to, to spruce this up and paint it. And I was like, well, if we're going to go through all of that, we might as well just get some uniformity with the public buildings. So. Yeah. That's what I think it's a good idea. The, I had mentioned that it's really not completely consistent with our design guidelines effort to look like an antique building. You know, when we approve designs of buildings, but I think it's more important to have this consistency.
And. So I'm. Yeah. I think you get a three zero zero on that. There is also a mention of lights. So that it's not in the. We hadn't discussed yet. The, the, the building on the public safety building has a ground mounted light that shines up at the sign. Are you thinking I'm putting a light. If I, if I did build, it would have to be solar. We don't have any power out that far.
So, you know, it would help to know whether you're going to do that. Okay. Because part of the approval. Yep. I will. I'll investigate some solar lighting that looks similar to what public safety has. And it'd be an uplighting like we did at the COA for the flagpole. So if you kept the granite exact same size as the public safety building, it will slightly dwarf the sign a little bit because the sign is one foot less wide. I don't think it's that big a deal, but so I think you'd just keep there are seven inch wide posts. You might want to just keep them all the same scale, but that's your call, I guess. Okay. Yeah. When we go, when we, if we pull the trigger, when we pull the trigger on this, if it gets approved, I'll have a set of drawings that we can review bill, you know, and you can take a look at. Yeah. The other thing is the font. And I, I think to be truly like a logo, the font should be the same and you don't want to change it across the street. So I think that's how Vedica looks like Vedica to me on the public safety building. So you guys have any other questions, Tanya or Robin? No. And you know, the public safety building sign needs to be repainted unless you wanted to go with a more traditional font and repaint the public safety one at the same time. Well, those are vinyl letters applied to the, the lettering is vinyl. Oh, okay. just one comment regarding the lighting. If it's going to be a solar lighting on the ground, I doubt this would work through the winter, particularly when it's covered in snow. And particularly during the winter, you know, dark nights, it's that dark evenings. It's nice to have some easy way of finding. Yeah. Regarding that, Mike, do they ever have any, have any trouble with snow on the ground with a ground mounted light? Sometimes people have problems with it. I, I, the public safety light, I was buried for most of the winter bill. I don't know if anybody dug it out. So it may not be a good idea to have it on the ground like that. Probably better to, you know, one type of light is like a gooseneck or two goosenecks, one on either side. Otherwise, or you could have the light on a taller pole so that only a giant snow drift would bury it. Okay. And that's up. You guys figure out what you want to do. All right. Yeah. Once, once we get a design, like I said, I'm, I'm happy to, to, to repropose it and we can take a look at it. Yeah. I mean, this isn't a formal application before us yet, is it? No, this was more of just the fact finding. Yeah. Okay. Just checking. Yep. No, I appreciate it. Any other questions guys? Nope.
Well, I'm glad you came to explain it. Michael. Yep. No, like I said, thanks for having me, Bill. Okay. Let's, that ends that application discussion. You're going to have somebody drill little holes in the side of the granite post so that you can stick the flags in? You know, I didn't, I was going to bring that up. But then you get water in there and it freezes. I think the veterans, they added little brackets to the back of that wooden sign with holes in them for the flags. Yeah. We can investigate that. That was an afterthought. Yeah. No, we'll investigate it and see what we can do with the granite. Somebody may, I'm sure it's been done before. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a great evening. Thanks. You too.
All right. It's a 731 and we can,
we're on the agenda for going over the design guidelines at 735. Do we have to wait? I guess so. Yeah. Let's see if I can open this. Oh, so Robert, Robert sent me a version. He doesn't think it's the most recent one, but he sent, he sent me one and I could open it.
That's encouraging. I know.
None of them, the one I sent you. Yeah, that was weird. It was out of SharePoint and that's why, but.
There's mine.
The, but I can, I think I can talk generically before we have the, well, maybe I shouldn't. Now the issues are about the, the project started a long time ago. And it's, it keeps increasing in scope. I think that I had hoped to, as you both recall, that we had six items that we just wanted to tweak and keep everything else and just kind of update a few items. And at this point, I think it's like, we're on the verge of a complete overhaul of the entire document.
Yeah.
This one looks, it's, this one looks old to me. It, but it is. Cause we did make a few changes. Yeah. I mean, it says 2026 revision. Yeah. What, what number though? Mine, the one I'm working on is revision.
Seven. Oh, five 22. And that's what it doesn't even say. Oh yeah. So she started labeling them. Yes. I think it's before. Yeah. I mean, it's useful reference if you have nothing at all, but I can walk you guys through what, what the key items are. And I, I think that we don't have to spend a lot of time on it. We can just basically hit the highlight issues in two more minutes about that, that we could take on in our next meeting.
Going back to Mike, I'm glad we were able to give him very specific suggestions that they won't have to revise anything when she, when he goes forward with it. Yeah.
He could scale those posts back to, you know, like six inch because your sign is smaller and then it wouldn't be as noticeable that the sign is smaller.
Yep. Let me see what version I have.
I think we worked on one more recently than the one that Robert just sent me. Oh, probably. Yeah. Let's see.
All right. It's time. We can start talking about it.
Yep.
So the one you don't have, the latest one, the one you, when you have probably does have this, all the front end information has been updated. And I don't think there's anything to discuss about that. It's nothing to dispute about or weigh in.
Then it goes to the next page is the members. And they ask for contact information in case people want to get involved. And then there's the table of contents. So none of that has to change. Yeah. Robin, maybe could you bring it on the screen? I can. Oh, good. All right. Which one? This one. So the one I had on my computer is, let me back up. there's a table. It's from February 4th. Okay. Yeah. There's the date.
Okay. So, so what's probably not on the next page, scroll up one more and see if there's a map. No. All right. So what we had talked about doing was putting a map that would be visible right opposite the page. They had all the, had the buildings photographs shown back there. Yeah. So I'll write opposite that on the left would be the buildings and on the right would be the map. And, um, uh, Nina is now, uh, the map that I had done way back in 2012 was just a zoning district map. And we took the zoning districts and we put a new IDOD in front of each district number. And I, because I didn't want to mess with a system that, it already exists. Yep. And, um, I think it just leads to less confusion. If someone's dealing with a zoning board and they, they want to, they're in a certain district, we should use the same numbering. I think that's in the zoning bylaws. Yeah. Um, but Anita pointed out just the last meeting, uh, about a week and a half ago, when we go for last Friday, um, that the historic district, there's an inconsistency in the zoning map that, that basically has districts clearly defined. But when you get to historic district, it's not a separate district. It's really an overlay district. It's, and so, so it's, um, it's, it's inconsistent. And she was thinking that we should just take it out. And I'm thinking, you know, I don't want to mess with the numbering system. So I, I want you guys to think about that too. I still prefer to stay with the numbering system, even though it's not completely consistent with itself. Hmm. And I thought what we could do is, uh, on the next page, have a list of overlay districts. Cause now there are a lot of those and that's not on that zoning map either. Right. And so we would have zoning districts, we call them Z, whatever, keep the numbers. And then we'd have overlay districts and we could basically sort of make it clear that the historic district is an overlay district, but, um, but it has its own number. Yeah. I think that if you're going to include the map, I think you have to make it its own page because if you make it a part of a page, it's so small. I mean, it's so hard to, to get, make heads or tail of it. Even when you see it blown up, if you make it a partial page, you won't even be able to tell what's what. We were making it a whole page, but even then it's very hard to read everything. Oh yeah. The print is really fine. Yeah. Um, I think that's a good point. What I forgot to mention is that Anina was thinking that we should do a separate map for the overlay districts, not try and add even more complexity to the zoning map, which, yeah. And I, I think that makes sense too. Yeah. Yeah.
Anyway, that's food for thought. And I just, we don't have to solve anything tonight, but it is something that we're discussing. Yeah. We were going, I remember when we had this discussion, we were going to take a new picture of this building. Cause it looks so much better now. Yeah. I'm still waiting for them to finish it. Yeah. Since we have a fence up and everything and they're going to be done pretty soon. So yeah. Landscaping is all in. Yeah. I agree with that.
And I don't think it makes sense to do before and after. Cause I didn't really change the building at all. No. Um,
yeah, no, definitely don't need before and after, but if we want it as an example of, you know, of what is now a much nicer looking building. I mean, in this picture, the sign's even crooked.
Yeah. That whole kiosk in the middle is a nightmare. Yeah. It's gone now. That's gone. Yeah. Yeah. That one where this sign is, that's still here, but now it's all landscaped. Yes. It's this, it's this one here. It's this one here that's now out.
So anyway, so we should replace that picture. Yeah.
Um, so the only other thing that I think, um, and Nina and I kicked back and forth was that we thought that every IDOD district could have its own page. And right now we have, we have that, uh, district near my house, for example, that is a, uh, roadside business district. Yeah. And we don't even have any photographs of those buildings. And it's, it makes sense because there's really not much. No, it's just leaves going on there. There's not, there's no other buildable sites, um, that would be allowed. Yeah. So, but if, if we wanted to be consistent, we could show those, but I don't, I don't, I think it's a lot of work that doesn't really help the document. Yeah. I mean, they're, I think just giving them the right amount of space, you know, some of them like this first one, limited manufacturing, which is, you know, a lot of that part of the center of town can have a little more space, but roadside business doesn't need more space. Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah. Um, the only benefit would be that it shows that even the buildings in those districts are consistent with the new England, uh, style that we're talking, the village style that we're trying to go for. Yeah. Most of them are really pretty consistent without, and that's all happened without us asking them to, they basically look around and they say, this is, we want to fit in and they design something that fits. Yeah.
Um, it's, I agree with you, Robin, that they don't all have to have the building shown. of what, you know, what district looks like, what. Yeah. But I mean, there may be some where we can find, yeah, there may be some where we can find a good example and add that in. Yeah. Um, okay.
So, um, so those, those were the two major questions. I don't know if you have any others that you want to bring up again today. No, I don't, I don't think so.
Oh, here's map of the districts. You have it in this, thing. It's at the end, but yeah, it's a different place. Yeah. And, uh, go, uh, scroll back with this, um, building. We talked previous visit, maybe you'll replace this picture. Which one? The, the, I don't number 10 in town center down here. Yeah. Yeah. We had talked about a different picture for that. Yes, you did. And I just haven't, I've, I've driven by a few times in the middle of the day. Right now is a good time to get rid of that shadow and take a different angle. I, the reason I, I know you pointed out that it's the back of the building, but it is, it does have that sort of rambling add on style that, uh, that you don't see in the front. No,
but yeah, I'll get a better shot of that and show you a few options. Yep. And I did put in a different one of that, uh, gas station that's down in constituent. Yep. It's, uh, not all in shadow. It's a little better.
Okay. I'm trying to think of which one that was. It's not in here now. Uh, I don't know if it is either. No, it's not in this version. Okay.
That's all I have to ask tonight on that topic.
Oh, yeah, it was down here that we were. Yeah, there it is. The big shadowy, uh, I caught it during the day, a different time of day. And it's earlier in the morning. You get sunlight on it. Yep. Okay. Is there anything else to discuss? I can't think of anything else. It sounds really modern style. We have plenty of building for this in my neighborhood. There is. Yeah. On the locker street, there is a row of building in a sanctuary style. Oh, please send me some photographs. We can definitely include them. Uh, couple of them, the, the, the, the, the renovation, like incredibly nice kind of, you know, good. Good. Good. I will.
Okay. All right. Uh, no, I'm supposed to not ask this question anymore. I guess the matter is not reasonably anticipated because it begs the question for getting an unannounced topic. So we're going to drop that from the next agenda. All right. Anyone want to make a motion to adjourn?
I move to adjourn. I second. Thank you. All right. It is 746 and we are now adjourned. All those in favor. Yes. All right. Good night, Robbie. Good night. Thank you.