April 10, 2026 – Economic Development Committee – Video & Transcript
April 10, 2026 - Economic Development Committee
So we will call the order since we have quorum.
Follow order, it is 8.33.
And we are hybrid, both in-person and remote.
So in-person, we have Ali Polat, we have Karen Kelly,
myself, Rebecca Stanizzi.
Remotely, we have David Villari.
I believe that Nidhi's gonna be joining remotely,
and Jeff maybe as well.
So Nidhi actually accepted the invite,
but I thought she was traveling.
So, oh good, there's Katie.
So Katie's just joining.
So if those parties join, we can loop them in.
So I don't have to read the preamble. I'm so programmed to read the preamble. So Tom, welcome. See you're- Thank you, good morning, everybody. You're in your commute. Good morning. We're actually gonna have- No pressure to look at us, Tom. Yeah. Don't look at us. Jean's gonna have a public comment where she's gonna talk, it'll be like probably like five, 10 minutes. Do you have a time limit? Is there anything that you wanted to raise or otherwise as we kick off the meeting or we have to stick around a little bit? No, I need to leave at 8 55, but nothing on my agenda, no. Okay, perfect. All right, hey, Robert, good morning. So with that, we will open up public comment. This is Jean Milburn, who is a prior member of EDC and another generation of EDC. Right. But strong housing advocate, but as we all know, housing can also be economic development as well. So Jean wanted to raise a few topics, which could be overlapping in what we're doing, but it's just great to raise that awareness and have it on our radar screen. Yeah. Great. Thank you for allowing me to come and make public comment. And your address? I'm at 281 Concord Road. There you go, perfect, okay. And as Becky said, I'm a former member of this committee. I currently serve on the housing part, a large partnership, but I'm not here as their representative today. I'm just here as myself. And actually for my first topic, I'm really glad that Tom is here because Tom and I have been working together on this project for disabled housing at, let's see, 212 Conchitawood Road. Yep. It's a great project. And I'm so proud that Parkham's stepped forward, land available for disabled housing. I joined the committee because I have a child with a disability, and they were kind to let me join, and I really got quite an education about the crisis of housing for disabled people in the Commonwealth. It's really quite heartbreaking. So I think we can all be proud that we're going to move forward and do something on that site. I'm just here basically to encourage your interest in the project. I think it's a project that affects the entire community, and I'd like to see people thinking about this as how do you make the lives of these people good lives, and how do they fit in our community and do well? And that's amazing. That's the main mission of this committee. You spend a lot of time asking those questions, how do you build a community where everybody is welcome and participating, everybody has a place, everybody has a fair chance. So I just wanted to let you know we're in the process of issuing the RFP for proposals for the site, and I hope as the proposals arrive that you'd be interested and participate in the process of helping decide. We're not going to spend a lot of time on the portal and helping decide a direction for the TAM. That's topic number one of three. Topic number two this morning is the Housing Production Plan. So the Housing Partnership, the entity in TAM that is responsible for basically strategic planning for housing. There's a process by which there's a report prepared every few years that is sent to the State and the State can go through that and get the approval that they need. I'm going to let you go over there. Thanks. state aggregates the data from this report for all the towns and gets an idea about what all the towns in the commonwealth as a whole are likely to do in housing production what goals they've set um and being new to this committee you know one of the first things i did was read our housing production plan and i was struck that while it it set many wonderful objectives it didn't very clearly define a path to achieving the objectives and i think that it would be really great for the housing committees in town to be interacting with other committees and talking about process for this at the intersection with economic development at the intersection with environmental groups in town we find a lot of times that the housing and environmental people are bumping heads i think it's unnecessary if they talk to each other more in advance of building projects we could achieve some understanding about the path forward so i encourage your interest in the housing production plan and i hope to see your committee invited to meet jointly with the housing partnership my third topic this morning uh accessory dwelling units um i'm an enthusiast and a supporter of accessory dwelling units um i think they give us an environmentally sound way to add housing units to our town in most cases these units are going to get dropped on to lawns and backyards uh which is basically an ecologically dead zone and it's a way to not have to build a lot of infrastructure in order to add housing units so we're not cutting down forests we're not grinding in roads we aren't pulling sewers and utility lines we're basically working with what we have and doing more modest upgrades as needed and so i really encourage this committee's partnership with uh the housing groups in town to help us do public education about accessory dwelling units and i think it's salient to your committee because the economic benefit and um my next remark is not intended to insult developers but basically the model we're used to is a professional developer comes in and builds housing and then leaves the community with the wealth generated by the project what an adu does is create an opportunity for private property owners here in town to finance their own project build their own project and capture the economic benefit of that project so we add housing units where the wealth generated by this flows into our community and i think that it's very powerful especially in this time where the whole commonwealth is really strapped for housing and people can't find anything place to put their grandmother or their adult children or their disabled family members uh it's a way to build wealth and families make them stronger and get the house that we need and um thank you for listening those are my three topics and i hope over the coming year or so that we'll have a chance to engage on those topics a quick technical question i'm not sure if you know the answer to this but um let's say a homeowner has a four-bedroom septic system and they have four bedrooms in the house can they drop an adu on no um they're limited by the septic they would have to drop they would even have to expand their septic yeah or go to a new one or take one of the bedrooms and say we're not going to you have to go through a building inspection they will come and verify and you're only allowed to have and that's another setback in there so typically let's assume you have a house with six rooms but you want to just say i have four bedrooms you're allowed to have all the bedrooms you're allowed to have only one home office room so there's not really an escape route from that as well so the sixth room when you have the one home office typically would qualify for a bedroom so this is going to be a lot easier for towns that have town water and store correct yeah yeah but when it's important that you're comparing the cost of building an adu people are worried about the cost of the septic system bumping up the adu project cost but if you're not the adu project cost even with an upgraded septic and compare it to trying to buy a housing unit something yeah but you're assuming you can get the perk test like where you need it to also it's not a it's not a given you know greenhouse yeah yeah i i totally yeah i think it was well said like 100 you know it's definitely at the end of the i mean you can get a prefab adu and drop it on your house and yeah it's going to be a lot cheaper than like building the way i look at it it's a tool in the tube box i don't know if like everybody has can use it or yeah it works for everybody right am i not a worker but it might sound like looking like i just don't have the money to to do an au maybe maybe someone bought an au and put on my property and then i paid they paid rent for me like this different scenario that i think about but unless someone has that nice you know i have a former house and it's like i don't need for a bedroom house it's just me i can i can get rid of a bedroom deed restricted and then someone can build an ado property, and I can get it rented that way. So, different scenarios, flexible, so people... I had a question about density on the ADU, Robert. So, typically, where ADU is really popular, like I've seen it when I worked in California a lot, because it basically increases the density allowance. But I think in our case, I mean, I don't know if we ever did a study like that, but for most of, I'm assuming, the single-family stock in Wayland, you can typically do an extension, like ADU just probably fast-tracks the permit process, but it doesn't allow you something out of the box, right? But for a state like California, where land is much minimal, like an average single-family in California is less than a quarter of an acre. We have a lush acre of land, most of us. So, typically, I mean, in theory, I think ADU just, like you said, adds another tool to your but theoretically, you could do it as an extension, I guess. I did a little exercise a while ago where the assessor's office gave me the sizes of every single-family dwelling in town and just kind of went through and grouped them by 7,000 square feet up 60 cents. And most of the houses in our town are occupied by two people, sometimes half a kid. I mean, the number of people living in houses is very small. There are many opportunities, basically, just to divide off a piece. And you know, I think that's very important. Yeah, I think that's very important. The town could choose to change rules and decide to do something different, but it has not at this point. But a lot of people are going to be able to very quickly just divide these big houses. What if you had a non-conforming law? Do you have to go to ZBA for that, too? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I'm just thinking of all the rentals. There's no big obstruction, for example, a non-conforming law. And I had to go when I wanted to put an addition on my house and do a big deep energy retrofit on it. And they were perfectly reasonable. I just followed the rules. And they signed off. The two things that are like tricky is that health. So the septum, and also the conservation, if you're like around the wetland or creek or something. I had to do some due diligence. Robert actually helped me. So it seems like only those two things are unknown. Like you can't really predict before making an application, which might be tricky in certain cases, because you have to hire somebody to make the application. And then you might just say, well, this doesn't work. It's just true. We have an article on Time Meeting 4, correct, for today to allow by such a point. Largely, you can use a 900 square feet. That would be on Time Meeting. And that would allow for anything larger than 900 square feet. So if someone had 1,100 square feet, they can get a special partner from the planning board. We've seen some people come in and say, we want to do one, but we have bigger bathrooms and we need bigger, you know, like we can't meet the 900 square feet. So we need that exemption. So anything larger than that 100 square feet could be helpful for people who are trying to build this internet, you know, accessible. A wheelchair or who just needs a lot wider, you know, doors and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Natalie, you were saying California. I mean, all of this, you only looked at California. That's where we're going to be in 15, 20 years, right? ADUs started there. It's like the whole thing. Now in California, what you're doing is multiple ADUs and multi-story ADUs. Again, more dense. But when you think about it, there's septic costs. If you're really going to do it and you had to upgrade your septic, are you going to do it for 900 square feet? Right. It may be problematic. But if you could do two, if you could really do a family compound where your mother could be there, elderly mother, as well as your, you know, your younger kids who are just have, you can have the family compound or you can have renters or whatever, like getting that density might be enough to get it over the hump. Cause in the suburbs, it will, it will be tougher. One thing you just mentioned was some of these houses are really big. And so if you have a four bedroom house and you have to lose a bedroom, you're going to lose value, that main house. And that's going to be the hard part, but if you can keep it within the house or add on, and actually David lives in one, or his, his parents added on to the existing house. I've seen it. It's lovely. But when you keep it with the existing structure, as you know, a growing family may come in and they may have just a baby, right. And they want to have three kids, but they don't need four bedrooms right now, but they can use it as an ADU. And then as they grow, they can expand that value will stay with the house. As soon as it's a little bit remote, you're going to lose value on that. Once you put a deed restriction on it, that's like kind of like. So it's kind of thinking through, but I think that there, I think you're right. There are big house, big houses where you have very few people who they don't want to leave their home, but they probably would be more than happy to sort of carve out an apartment, whether it's for their kid is just graduating college or whatever, or renters or yeah, whatever. A lot of us, our older generation, it's costing 10,000 a month to keep somebody in a nice, this is living community. Yeah. Yep. That's big. It's 120,000 a year. It's an improved section. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. And that's just right. And ADU is there to stay. So after the care, it might be turned into some other sort of like rental, whatever. So you just say one last thing, doubling back to 212. So I was supposed to have sent you around the report that they did. I'll send it after this, but it's just kind of a findings of what should go there and thoughts process. So Jean being in prior ADC or in a housing advocate was advocating for more units on site. Others were advocating for less. If you're aware of, you know, where 212 constituent is. So it's, it's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's along the main road, larger lot sizes, bigger homes around it. It's not really, it's within kind of a vernacular there. Right. So as you and I were talking about it, you know, the intent is, I think the, the leaning was most of the committee was fewer units just so it fits in the neighborhood. Jean is more the advocate. We have what, four acres, two, three, four acres, let's do more. Right. Yeah. And so that happy meeting is always, what does it look like? Right. That's what the neighbors care about. So if you want to lean into more density, make it look like put a fence out front, have a therapy horse, make it look like a horse farm. Right. As long as you make it and then it's like three buildings instead of one that looks very institutional. It looks like a house, looks like a carriage house, looks like an ancillary building, right? It feels something that anybody moving in next door, they're not going to lose that value. So by allowing more units, you may be able to get a better design, which at the end of the day services everyone. So it's like, is there a happy meeting? Cause it's very hard to say, let's have, you know, 35 units here when there's a single home next door. But if you could, instead of 10, like what's the recommendation right now? So eight or 10, a little bit of background. Yeah. The typical quote group home now that is supported with DDS money, which is disability services in this commonwealth. Typically it will have five to eight people living in a one by four by five micro. There's one on route 20. I don't know if you're aware. Yeah. And it is my sense after being in the committee and we had many, many visitors come and talk to us, professionals, state governmental people, all kinds that were approaching a transition period in disability housing. That current model, they estimated it was costing a hundred and $10,000 per person per year. To use this housing model. The other problem with the housing model is there's people who are not necessarily convinced that this is making the disabled people a lot happier, you know, then they maybe could be in a different setting. So the DDS has been giving permission for exceptions to this housing model and trying different things. I think they're putting a toe in the water. They give somebody permission to try something different and that's going on right now. So I think we're in this transition period where we're looking for a way to assure very high quality of life, but also be able to help more people with the money that's available to help. So what happens is, you know, a certain number of people get to the top of the list, unfortunately due to terrible disabilities. And then there's a cutoff line. And then the next level of support is much lower. And so I think they're trying to experiment looking for models that they can say, okay, these more dense project can be built in a way that does not degrade the quality of life, but actually you can, you can improve, you know, be more sensitive to the riches of the people themselves and do something slightly different. So I'm just concerned that we participate in this transition time. In a, you know, lawful, constructive way and really look for how do we optimize our impact? We have a shared living site plan on the May 13th plan board agenda for a six unit Michael apartment complex, two floors, six small units, bedroom, bathroom, closet, kitchen. That'll be, you know, that's correct. that's going to fly that's it right where is that uh local street prostitute and logos the local school yeah that's the one with the barn correct and it's already i thought it was already built the house is redone right that's one that's your it's different oh interesting okay i'm not sure that's that's i'm not sure that's the new model that i'm thinking about but that's a six like six bedroom micro house and now if it everything goes through that would be uh then bonded and uh moderated and done by minimic art and if that happens just that i mean in town so excellent all right well gene well thank you for uh yeah thank you for seriously giving me your time when i can see you have a very golden gen so i'm just camper out of here awesome thank you have a good weekend you too all right so meeting minutes we had the units i circulated for march if were there any comments to those or otherwise david katie no all right do i hear a motion karen motion do i hear a second i'll leave seconds all in favor ali yeah karen yes becky i david hi hi morning katie morning all right so i'm sorry jeff all right it's like leaning around there you go perfect all right so town planner update robert what's the latest well hopefully this will be open
like a bomb went off i know today i don't know it's like they said they'd be done next week but so we were cutting next week regardless at 10 a.m uh with them uh at the site so that'll be interesting to be fun to be select one members agc members i'll be there hopefully time manager will be there uh and then we support from uh james the elders office too so and i bet you people from corporate will be there too from coming on some journey so uh yeah that's that's moving forward yeah um maybe it'll be next week may not at this point we're going to have a rumor cutting just because we already planned it all yeah so um for what it's robert i drove by this morning after school drop off and they had an 18-wheeler backed up and they were just unloading tons of stuff so they're quite busy impression is that they have some kind of deadline in their head. Every day they're losing money. There's no money coming in for coffees and stuff. So they're probably pushing as fast as possible to get anything done so they can get an inspection done and then open. Is the fence down? I don't know. I haven't got by the site because of all the construction. Fence is not down because they're still working. They had three guys doing electrical on the patio. They're throwing all the bodies at it. You're going to pull the fence and then cut the ribbon. Might turn into the motions. The only thing that would be outstanding is they need to come to the plan board for outdoor seating, which they said they didn't know about it, but I told them many times. Which is not a big deal. We worked out the building for Memo. There would be some kind of condition where it says you can't have outdoor dining until you go to plan board. You know, traditional conditions. So I think they'll care that. But we're just going to do a temporary CO and they did that with financing when it works. So we're going to negotiate just getting them a CO when eventually they're done with the conditions and they need to go to the outdoor dining. What happens when somebody pulls their own chair and sits there and eats? That sounds like they get arrested.
Next Friday it's supposed to be 70 degrees. It's fine. Bring your chair. So this is the last time I visit the other dungeons. It's coming soon. It's on the website. You can't push it yet, but it's there. The JavaScript is there. You can see it. So that would be good. I also did a lot of research on the meal tax. And so I found the whole spreadsheet of all the meal tax in every town you can see. It's on the DO website. You go back each year, you go by it goes by each quarter, and then you can see the final numbers. And we're collecting about $250,000 to $300,000 a year in the last few years. And I ran some projections of what it looks like for the next two years. We're looking at next year about $25,000 in extra meal tax. Just Dunkin' Donuts, Terrain Cafe in a Terrain, the wedding site. Based on very low Sorry, what was it again? $25,000 extra. Just based on those three. And I think about it, why is it so high? Oh, you know why? Because alcohol is going to have a huge margin. So if you go to a cafe and you get an avocado toast, you're going to get an espresso martini. A moza. Yeah, those things are going to increase the cost compared to a cafe beach, the bistro down the street, the townhouse bistro, who doesn't have a liquor license yet. So a little bit of beer or wine, whatever. They probably will get a beer or wine, but they haven't done it yet. So that's $25,000. And then basing on that, this is a very conservative number. I did a lot of research on what an average Dunkin' Donuts makes a year and what the Terrain makes in the market. The year after, it should go up to $35,000. So it should go up to $10,000 just minusing the few weeks, the few months that you missed out on some weddings in July, August, and September. And that's very conservative. So somewhere in the $25,000, $20,000 range, you would expect just two parties. Just those two alone? Yeah, just those two parties. And that bistro, I put down very, very low numbers just because I can't tell how many you do, but it's going to bring in some money. And it seems so small. You look at it and you're getting $0.75 for $100 spent at Dunkin' Donuts. But then it adds up very fast. Especially with these caterings, you have two wins a weekend. For most weekends, the numbers are going to go up and up. Have you heard anything about new tenants at Town Center? Not that there's going to be a cafe, but I have no clue what it's going to be. They're working in that corner. They're working in that empty corner of our cafe. Just no information. But they're talking to people. There's action. And there's one more big tenant that's leaving, too. The website, I think it's going to be leaving, too. Ace is leaving? Yes. It's on the I can see the website. It's on whose website? On Graffiti? Yes. It says they can go to work trying to fill that. Well, they'll carve it up. They'll probably have something about it. That's fine. So I haven't sent an email yet. I'm waiting for Town Manager to come be over to work on the next year once Town Manager and Finance are ready for next year. But I was a little surprised. I had a very low number for us. And then they really dug into the deep terrain. I was like, oh, these numbers will be big. And so it's about 25. It's a concern number based on WDLs. And based on WDLs, I think 90,000. I think I'm thinking about 90,000 for a month. I mean, I'm pretty good on the low side of what the numbers would be for that busy corridor, WDLs. And looking at it around, there's no WDLs anywhere in that Route 20 corridor, except for Sudbury. But if you're going down 95, this is it. Unless you hit the gas station. So. So Jakara also will be expanding, will be huge. Do we know more about when they're opening? I know they were aiming for the middle of April, but. They were on the middle of April. I don't know anything. I reached out to Jackie, the owner, and said, let me know when you're ready to move it, honey. Mike. He didn't respond back, did he? He did. He said he'd like to let me know. OK. So they might not be opening yet. Or they might just open and then do a few weeks back later, which is fine. Is there signage there for Jakara? I've seen window signage, but I don't think I see it. It still has the bagel. They have, like, ten cows on the side. Stop it. Maybe it was a week or two ago. No, now there's Jakara. I remember seeing there was something about fresh sushi or something. Then the Bistro. I think they're a plant by the side. So they have approval for the outer dining and for the restaurant. But they're just trying to walk through some of the renovations and stuff. So unclear when they'll be open. Maybe March. I don't know. I mean, how fast it'll move. Who? The beach. The town. Iceland. How fast? March? I'm just being very concerned. The numbers. Why would you say that's like a year away? I have no clue how fast it'll move. Which I thought was very aggressive. Don't get us out of there for a while. Don't get us out of there for a while. So I'm just being very assertive. I don't know. She's December, June, March, any fall, I don't know. They wouldn't want to open June anymore. So they've either hit the holidays or they're going to bust. Yeah, I feel like it's October or bust. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just being super concerned. So I ran the number. I did. I feel like March, she's super concerned. I'm just very concerned. Hm. So that snap happens. Do they have a building permit pulled yet or? I don't know. I don't know. Really? Yeah. They're doing reno right now. Right? In Collins Building? Yeah. Oh, I haven't seen. Really? Well, I mean, they already started in February. I haven't driven. I mean, maybe I've driven by, but I haven't booked. Yeah. So I guess I'm just assuming. It's April now. She's well behind schedule. That's the case. You want to reach out? Are you still there? Sure. Yeah, just ping her and find out. So overall for the build tax, I looked at what we could we compare pretty like in the medium. A Medfield, a Medway, somewhere that range is what we're hitting. We're not the highest. We're definitely not the lowest. Like a Weston, we're definitely in that middle. So there's a good $250,000, $300,000. Maybe we'll hit $3,000, $100,000, $300,000 this year, one or two. So there's a good amount of money. And the question is, what do you do with that? So I looked at, we have Ashland. We have Poplinton. Both. We have, you can't do a revolving fund. So you do a town meeting vote, and then you do a special administration with the state. And it's a special revenue fund, and that's what we call it. You can't do a revolving fund. So it's not called a revolving fund. So it's a specialization from the state to do a revere fund that comes in. So that might be one option. It's a lot of work. Or you might just say, we have x amount of money that comes in. We're going to add a general budget. We're going to use policy. And take x amount of money and use that for economic development for whatever it is, grants or whatever you want to do. So there's, I mean, that's a lot of time to do, too. They just collect the money, and they appropriate x amount of money to different things. But if you want to be more strategic and make it more of a, this is what we do, then it just comes to a fund, which is a pro. But then it has a con of, then you're taking all that money. So you can't be flexible. So there's no one way to do it, but I'll present all that to the finance director and the town manager once the town meetings close. That's just what we do. Do you have a sense of what the towns are doing with it? I mean, we know that Ashland did an economic development director. Yes. But now Hogton is doing some grants, a general operating fund, and then hiring a midpoint hire in December. And that's the plan. That's what they're doing now. They put x amount of money into the funds. And they just started slowly collecting money. And they're, I want to say, about $200,000. They're actually less than us. We actually take a lot of money, actually give them money for a tax. Yeah. Jeff, have you looked at it all during the month or no? Anything to add to that before we, since we kind of just dove in? No, Robert sent a nice spreadsheet over with all the totals for the towns and some of the ones he was comparing to. So I mean, do you need? No, we were talking and you guys are going to look at it. So yeah, I didn't get it. I don't know. Do you want us to do anything? So next step, you're kind of writing a memo for finance and town manager. Yeah. OK. So it's kind of next steps. Yeah, if you want to circulate, I think most are not doing anything special. They're just taking the money, either using it for general purposes or they're using their money and pointing to it and to a general general. It's only like I'm going to actually really went ahead and made a deal that's working. You make sure, especially if I was great. Yeah, I told you I could pull out what I actually want to pop in as to example. Actually, I've been there for a while. They had a regional idea. So how does our rate compare? It's the same, same every point, every point, the same thing at 0.75. I think I like it when less because why not? You can't go higher than that. So yeah, that's the match with the state. Right. OK, so I think they go out there. I can do that. And you're going to go after him. The bigger ones. But surrounding. Here we have Weston and I think cognitively most I'm doing this. We just kind of in the middle of that kind of, you know, the southern between that. By what point? But it must be higher. Maybe. Right. So we run through the topic. So the select board feedback to EDC. So I met with the select board on March 30th. Beforehand, it was confirmed at this point and Tom has actually dropped off. But going forward, we do not have to wait for approval from the select board, which is. Great because we just were otherwise waiting three and a half months so we can work directly through Tom Fay and Michael McCall. So that's terrific. So we just updated them on the list of what we were doing. I think the only pushback Carol Martin is just concerned about the playground element, but more so. We don't know as a town what we actually want to do with the whole town green. I said, well, that's exactly what the first steps with any designer will be. So with that playground, town center has said. We'll, we'll bring in our landscape architect and we'll help you plan that. And we're like, great. So we'll get that for free. And one of the first steps is literally laying out that park and where do you want to put the playground and what else do you want to leave room for? You know, what are their amenities? I mean, David, when you talk about it before, you know, it's not just a playground, it could be a stage. It could be, you know, whatever it is, pergola, whatever shade, et cetera. So that'll be one of the first steps. So that seemed to be a decent answer. So a lot of the stuff now that we. Yeah. Yeah. What are the things that we need to so that we can continue to work on and re-design what's the next step? Yeah. So when we do have to re-design anything and we want to be interfacing with town staff, I'm actually meeting with Tom Bay and Michael on Monday so that we can get the green light to talk with rec. Ideally we would go through that design process with. Catherine Brenna of recreation, but we'll just make sure who's going to be in those discussions. So hopefully all of this will break loose pretty quickly. the joint finance committee. he had a stroke and he's fine, but he's stepped down from FinCom. And so Carl is trying to kind of step in. He was the vice. So a lot of that stuff shifting around. So I think now, as soon as town meeting is over, I think that we'll get a lot of that data we're looking for. Does Brian have to pull the data? Like, is he, does he have to like actually pull all this together and run a report or is it, does it exist? And he needs to dig it up like already. He kind of has it already, but he's been waiting for debt service schedules from the banks. Like he doesn't have that. I'm not quite sure. He was waiting for the CIPC, the capital improvements planning committee, which their plan came in. I think it was reviewed by the town manager's office. Some of those big ticket items, he kind of wanted to make sure that it was right. I mean, this is a 10 year projection and it can go a lot of different directions. So he's just being diligent. And so we should be able, and part of it too, it was just tied up. But now that we're getting closer to town meeting, the warrants basically done a lot of this stuff, the heavy lifting stuff at this point. So he's back on the case. We were just, you know, this past week. So I think that we'll hopefully have that data soon. So we'll keep that moving long. All right. Town meeting article OO. What is the official number now, Robert? Let's have a number. I don't know. Not really. It's article OO. Article OO. It's a town warrant. It's live. I don't have the number. Yeah. These are the numbers pop up by now. I feel bad using you. Change the article name numbers to the latest numbers. And it is that good point. I know I know. I'll buy the letters. I don't know about the other numbers. It's there. So we all met jointly. I think everybody was there that's on this. Yeah. He was on. So we had discussion. It was just interesting to hear how the planning board approaches it. What are the, you know, what are the regulations versus what is the zoning? So basically we had had sort of a draft zoning because we had had sort of the PowerPoint presentation, which had the recommendations. But I knew Annette would say, well, where's the zoning for me to look at so so i just put it on the page um but one of the pages uh underneath your agenda is what was presented at that meeting just completely just stabbing in the dark right just thinking about how to draft it based on what we heard there's a revision particularly what robin was heading was keep the numbers with the numbers those are in the table keep the qualitative in the regulations so it's just kind of rounding out that discussion the bottom of the page is just having an asterisk so again there was the concern that the select board if we change the mbta zoning that we will somehow void it that it won't be approved so keeping everything in the asterisk the table stays the same but allows that flexibility puts the dimensions with the dimensional table and then keeps the qualitative with the design regulations which is more of the planning board and not having to be reviewed by the state so specifically it's just one asterisk we're actually three because there's two priors but it's just a bonus and you just say next to the height and next to the the density may increase from 20 units to 32 and may increase to 56 from 35 with an 80 foot minimum setback from route 20 and a maximum four occupied residential floors and a maximum 45 foot height meaning a three-story building for the first 15 foot of the building closest to route 20 so it was we talked about the the the the the the the the the the the the the the step massing you can either define that or you can just do it this way this keeps it relative no matter where the building lands what we found at river's edge when we did the guidelines we were at two stories three and then four the developers just pushed back to where it started at three because the two wasn't cost efficient four is more cost efficient three the same way developers will naturally go to that because there is room for 25 percent lot coverage they'll naturally just step back until they go to the next block and then they're going to be able to get to the next block to the four stories so keep that step in which is not overly onerous but left to their own devices they'll just cite so they don't have to do it i have a question um so that's all that is yes you're saying you're suggesting this revision yes so this is up above is what we talked about and handed out this based on what we heard this would be this could be a potential that we could then send to the planning board and say you know this is all that would have to be kind of like added at town meeting floor do you need one robert yeah i'm not missing one time that's pretty bad i've not seen a movement at all you just need one all right did you need one then the one after the meeting correct the four nine yes oh yeah yes um so they didn't see something being long and onerous it's really like pulling apart those two parts so that all that would change on town meeting floor is adding this third asterisk after you know in the table that wouldn't know we couldn't use route 20 in the guideposts you can't as a roadway you can use the route 20 property line got it that is definable okay because the roadway where is it dead i get that get it totally get it so that was changed to recognize that um the occupied floors that caps your overall height the main concern with the 58 feet you most likely will get a five over one building you'll get a six-story building right because developers will always go to whatever's highest most efficient or smaller footprint smaller roof better views more efficient i mean it's just they'll naturally go to that so we just need to limit it so someone can have a flat roof if they wanted to or they could have a peak truth that allows them within that and we dropped a little bit to 56 just because 58 was from alta oxbow but that was because there was huge topo at the back of the site yeah so 50 56 allows a roof without getting overly heavy so it just kind of scales it down a little bit that's the reason the roof is in the way so that was just talking to bill sterling and kind of thinking that through um so all it does is if the zoning table is all about envelope all this does is provide a bonus doesn't change the table at all just gives you that added benefit if you want to exercise it and then in the design regulations down below if you do that bonus and you have to worry about facade length if you do the bonus you can have surface parking which otherwise the guy that's going to do it just doesn't. guidelines or the regulations say the parking has to be in the side in the back right have you shared that yet no so we're just literally we have not deliberated here so the intent is let's try to close the loop so that we can give something to the planning board i think you guys are meeting next week and then you can decide if you want to do something about so whether it's but the concern is the zoning as it stands today is could be a problem right and it's if something got built under that was built badly it could set us back in growth goals and otherwise and people would ask how the heck did this happen and does each uh does the town have um an actual mbta zoning bylaw or is that a state thing no so the state that's the page and that's the table sorry i jotted it down but so we had you know the state law we had to create our own bylaw creating as of right now housing it can't be special under under mbta heading under that so this is that front page there is that was the article um that was done so it's literally it's the all the logistical grid all the facts constraints units per town makes any modification they have to send it to the state level to get approved or no yeah so so we heard that the concern was oh if we change it we send to the state the we're going to be out of compliance so robert you could even what if they just reject it and say you need to modify it or reject it like why would we be out of compliance why wouldn't they just say no you can't do it you can't do the aspects and you're fine so it's an easy conversation but i don't i don't think you get sent to like purgatory because you suggest a change and they don't accept we can even ask town council i mean literally they don't want us to be out of the grid doesn't change right we are adding a bonus no rights are taken away there shouldn't be any issue we could ask town council i mean even if they say no it's like why would that default you into non-compliance i mean you already have approved this might be this might be a bit of strategy because if you if you if you say it's a bonus and like and then they come back like yeah you can't do that then then you'd be you'd be fine what's the worst thing they say they say no and it just stays it stays the same as it is so like i don't understand why there's a concern that no it's the whole thing no it's the way that it was the way that it was done originally we had where you changed it just the way it was different it was driving differently for me i might be wrong but my ins my my feeling is that the planning board decided that this will happen so i i i think that because i wanted to question the same thing as well i was like okay so what happens if it stays the same you already zoned it and we're claiming there are no developers with this density well we'll just keep it as it is maybe somebody would pick it up yeah i think there was some steering in that meeting like oh if you if you take a swing at this and miss then then you're like you're in trouble i i don't see it like that i mean you got you know that can be verified but it's like nothing ventured nothing gained you know it's i'm with you but you know robert would be a better person to answer that i don't think there's any harm in asking the state right we didn't pass it we're playing around with the idea but it seems like we are more playing around with the idea i think the planning board looks at this as like i don't know maybe eighty percent done so at this point that might be breathing the tension on this
yeah i think the way that you drafted me originally i think it was it was could have been an issue with the amendment i think the reason i think you you had you had to mention that you had things that might have been more critical that would change it but if you have bonuses the worst case scenario in that case they just strike it yeah they'll just say it was always sort of below it was always we don't want to disrupt the main grid it's just what if you want to go beyond that i think the problem is the burden fell on the edc to figure out how to put that learning into place you guys are the ones that wanted to to modify it and like figure out what's what's that path to to make it so that i have all the party don't work out i mean honestly just to keep it on record i was expecting the pb meeting would be about that thank you for the idea let's actually work it out so we could write it as well i think there's planning boards well i think it was your idea it's just you need to explain how to how to modify it so we can make it work because the plane was fine with how it drafted that's that that's about lying i'm a bit concerned so the question is with this as you guys are reading it does it kind of do what you think it what we were wanting to do i'm okay yeah i think it does at least it gives the town some control over like how we want to see the building that's thing can i just ask a question as a town developer is there any way we could break this into two sentences i have trouble and it might just be because i'm not just reading this stuff but like okay so may increase to 32 units per acre and 56 feet maximum height with 80 feet minimum setback from your 20 property line and maximum four occupied residential floors and maximum 45 feet i'm just like i'm lost in this should we flip it so it's the lower and then it goes to the higher or perhaps and like can we just break can we break it it's a little bit of a carry-on sentence yeah uh right so we could just have a sort of a one and a two okay that help i think so like it just helped you break it up as you're reading it yeah like what goes with what what um yeah or we could just put a full stop after floors and just say for the first 15 feet of the building closest to 20 line the maximum height would be 45 feet and three stories uh yeah something like that just break it
this looks very zoning cody by the way that's right and i thought totally that's why right so they might revert it to this but i'm totally with you because i hate the way we write zoning code typically with all the hashtags and everything embedded inside it let's write it as a lay person's view and then actually it might be the planning board who might want to put this into a structure of their own language there yeah okay so two cents exactly so maybe like starting with it's starts to get you start to lose it a little bit at in maximum 45 feet height yeah so may increase break it what is the condition so the condition is that they how may they achieve this so they can increase the 32 and 56 feet if if or with or if what if one they comply with the 80 minimum setback and maximum floors okay and two if they're only maximum 45 foot height and three occupied floors closest to the road okay yeah i would say if the following conditions are met one and two perfect yeah exactly the language that this term oh my goodness and then do one and two right okay anything else to add david or katie anything um my one thought is what do we want to think about what happens if we send this to the planning board and they decide to not go with it do we have like a potential next step i don't know if we want to think about that or not but that's just something that comes to mind do you mean katie that they don't want to reach out to ask the question or they want to reword it um that they just decide to not do anything with our suggestions yeah that's the question on town meeting floor you know do you comment and i think that you would have these visuals you have to warn the public like they have to see the visuals that this is what the zoning can create and i think you get an immediate response right so it we would be remiss if we didn't warn tamil voters we we know of this massing without the rendering like this is going to kind of just just over exactly yeah but i think as soon as you have a rendering that it's five over one and it's you know 30 feet in the road like holy moly yeah even had a version without actually screaming trees i'm glad it looks like it looks like a huge retaining wall that that one that you did with the uh it might happen i mean uh robert would have better input on this but typically like in other towns that i see the scale they would actually submit this kind of work and say here's how the landscaping would look with the time of plantation and sometimes the planning board's even But conditions that any tree that needs to be planted should be no less than making it up right now. Caliper, two-inch caliper. Exactly, right? So I understand it's kind of like late in the game because it's also NBTA, like we have a lot. But I think what we're asking is probably in the reasonable range. This definitely is going to have to be septic because of the elevation, right? Didn't you say it was too cost prohibitive to go to the sewer? They're probably going to have to have a package. System, I would guess, because it's going to be too expensive for Wayland to get up and over the hill. Right. And then we know because when we were doing Alta Oxbow, Rivers Edge, we asked Sudbury for their sewer because we're like, oh, we'll just tag onto theirs. They have sewer for that quarter, but it's really trailing down and it just doesn't have the capacity. So Alta's septic, right? So Alta was its own septic and package, but then we got state funding to tie into the town center plant. So they type to the town center plant that cleans it up and then they discharge. So, I mean, is it a given that they can get a septic for however many units that it's someone even knows? Show you the fascinating part. These things would get killed on septic. Exactly. Which is interesting because I thought environmental should be studied first before even zoning or we talk about septic. I mean, it could be a moot point, you know. I'm also concerned about the traffic as well. Oh, that's another one. That's a huge concern. Yeah. Because I take my girls. So then it's going to have to be, it has to be a light there. There's no way in that intersection twice every week between four to five. There's no way you can. No. If you try to leave your house there and take a left going, what route 20 East and like rough shower, like a line all the way to Longfellow, like trying to get out of there. Usually there's an aversion adding lights on route 20. Yeah. An amount of housing that if the state might look differently, I mean, it took them forever to put a light. I mean, it would be annoying, like, it would be annoying, like just, yeah. For like coming down route 20, I would be annoyed to have a light there, but it's like, how are you going to get out if you don't. Robert, a quick question about traffic. How, who, like if they want to do another cut, so it's, it's a pretty like long facade frontage on route 20. Right. So if they want to add another entry point more towards the East and then the current Longfellow would be just the outlet, are you going to do that with easy process to do? Or. They have, are you going to do that with the elevation though? You're going to be like driving, like, I'm not saying they should do it. I'm just saying if a developer chases it, like what is the town? You have to make sure that there's no like restriction on how close the curb cuts are together. Right. So permitted as a road to be a private road, just like it's a private road now. But can you just tag into route 20 directly and saying, okay, I'm going to. The curb cut permit would be even worse though. Yeah. And to like. Make out what's right there. Definitely. So I'm just trying to make sure that everybody would do it. And if state is involved, no developer. Oh yeah. The state, because it's a state road. Yep. Any new curb cut there needs to have it. So there'll be the ones looking at traffic. Yeah. So I will, once I get this information, I can run it up with flatball and see what, what are the, you know, the issues. Is there any concerns? It's the, I guess I can find St. Barbara road of what we're doing and see if there is any, that's, I mean, that's the main concern of the plan board of mine. It's not. It's you're around too much and to drive clients because we try to be fancy. And we were definitely hearing it. That was totally our intent too. Nobody wants to screw up, but I would not, I'm not, I'm not in this, I'm not really not into this, this rendering fear monitoring, like this is what it's going to be like, cause we don't know what it's going to like, and just to try to show these renderings, it's going to scare people. You're going to fear monitor people. It's not, I don't like it. That's not my thing. You need to show something. You've shown nothing. There's been no discipline whatsoever. It's not going to show very hard to visualize this as a layman. If you're just getting up and like, what reading this, it's not my, it's not my. I'm just, I'm not going to, that's not my thing. Well, river's edge, all everything that we've ever proposed, we've shown what it will look like. You at least need to show massing. So people understand it. I mean, it's, they don't understand it's a potential five and a half story building, which is taller than anything that Wayland has, right. They don't understand it. And, you know, even if it's 80 feet back, it doesn't matter. But if you're saying that 30 feet shows that we're scaring them, well, it could be at 80 feet. And it's just, I mean, I actually, I saw it once and it was not, it was not close to the right way that I saw was not close to the right way. I know we saw it too. So we talked to the owner. It's just the purpose of the study anyway. Right. So we're trying to show the reasonable worst case scenario. We're not showing what a developer will build. We're just showing what length, what our language means. Yeah. We're just showing what our language might allow it to be built. And it might be 1% chance that somebody would pick up and build it exactly like that, but even if it is that 1%, I think we have to be fully disclosed to the general public saying, well, this is doable. We can definitely say likely the building will not look like this, but I think we should at minimum say, well, if there is like a very little possibility that it may happen, it may happen. There's a lesser possibility that would happen 30 feet from the beginning, right? It's a very large possibility. It's a five and a half story. Yeah, I agree. That's the, that's reality, right? So, so again, you said, you know, ultimately right now, if, and we're happy to come to the planning board meeting, whatever, like this, we're not lawyers, lawyer it, but this is concept, right, but we could easily with planning board approval, with design review board approval, with EDC approval, with FinCon, with select board, if everybody is in favor of this amendment. I think that it would pass, right? I don't think it's too confusing. I think it's, I tried to keep it one sentence. We'll add numbers, but keeping hearing you, keeping it as simple as possible. But, you know, I will try, I will send it to the state. I can't bet you contact the state, seeing what, and seeing just ask if we added, if we add an asterisk, just like your question before, if we add height and the same footprint, I mean, okay, well, this is an asterisk doesn't disturb the original footprint at all. It just says, if you want to be larger, this is what. You need to do. I can't imagine. And then it's, you know, if it needs to be a question or me, you can ask them, but if we approve this at town meeting and it is not approved by the AG, really like when our, our prior approval, isn't going to be lost. I can't imagine, but ask the question that that's the concern. It's just, you can't, you can't, you can't change it. No, right. It's what the prior would still say. So those are sort of easy questions to ask and make sure that planning board. Concerns are, I will send to the state. I know you, some people might be concerned that I'm not going to send to the state. I will ask the questions. It's fine. Okay. So I will modify and then send you that and I will send to Robin and at the same time, just so we're all working out the same one. Um, and see where it goes. Can I, can I just say something really quickly? Yes. It seems like to me, the planning board's biggest concern was the massive mass, um, laws and everything like that. So Robert, if you can get confirmation. From the state that something like this is not, um, getting rid of the MBTA community's regulations, then it feels like we've kind of made a step forward and address the planning board's concerns.
I don't know. That's it.
All right. Do I hear a motion to approve this zoning language so we can forward it to the planning board? As amended motion to send zoning language to the planning board regarding article OO as amended as amended. All right. Karen motion to hear a second.
Second all in favor. Ali. Yes. Hi, Becky. Hi, David. Hi, Katie. Hi. Great. Approved six. Oh, awesome. Okay. So with that are activating route 20 Whalen center corridor, which they haven't met with Michael yet on, on Monday, but we'll relay, but now we can hopefully get going. So town center, new owners, shared streets. Yeah. That is underway. I actually just got a draft list from Jesse. They're thinking it through trying to get them to put it on a map. So it's easily understandable. So we're honing in on that. They also need to mark up the use agreement with the town. So both of those two things, coordinating with Michael McCall's office to get those to happen sooner rather than later playground amenities at town green. So David, your pet cause and Katie. So hopefully I will find out from Michael McCall. Um, you guys both met with Catherine Brenna, right? We did in the past. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm assuming that that'll be sort of our key contact, but I will let you guys know. And then we can start interfacing with Jesse at, uh, Grafito and their landscape architect, which will be great. So. Okay. I still had not sent Grafito, you know, the, the pitch that we kind of walked through in general. I wanted to make sure we had like full, uh, you know, group approval to do that. If that was okay. Oh, I thought they had gotten up before. No, no, we'd walked them through it just on a call, but never actually sent it to them. Like the, the big one, David, you mean the one that was like many, many pages long. Uh, uh, I think we sent them the overview word document, but there was another one that had like a little bit better detail photos and a couple of revisions that we were working on as a group of some ideas that we incorporated too. So I don't know. Yeah. Is this, this is the second, a good standalone. Yeah. It's a good standalone. It's just a couple. We'll clean like PowerPoint photos. Basically what I can do, Becky is I'll send it to our group again, and then we can just take a, take a look at it and make sure we're okay with passing it over to Grafito as starting input with Catherine Brennan on, on copy. Okay. So yeah, as soon as we have sort of our clear path, I don't know if Michael Faye, I would love to talk with Michael Faye quickly, new facilities guy. He's done playgrounds in the past. What are the maintenance? Like part of that is we're, you know, whether it's, you know, a nonprofit that's managing it or whether the town's managing it, part of it is not only, it's not only the initial install, but it's also the maintenance. So hopefully we'll be, be able to patch these people in. So, yeah. So David, that's great. If you can circulate and then we'll be good to go as a starting point. Well, I think there were two people that we needed to talk with on like overall costs that we, this is where we stalled out a couple of months ago. It was I think DPW. Tom Holder. Yeah. Tom does the install. If I understand it correctly, that's the team. That does the install. And then fail would be doing the maintenance over time or the other way around. I'm forgetting. But we would need input really from both of them for total costs of the project. Yep. So fail would do the install and DPW would, would maintain, but yeah, so we can, that discussion on Monday is actually with, it starts off with Michael McCall and Tom Holder to talk about the curb cut and sidewalks engineering. So while we have them on that, we'll just make sure I'll check with, with Michael that we have the green light. We'll talk with Fayette with Holder and then Catherine Brennan and also environmental. Cause that's, that's a key to get our arms around that for sure. As we're talking about designers. So it's, it's environmental through the health department, I believe. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. So I'll let you know as soon as we have that. The route 20 task force. I last talked with Carol Martin that they're holding for a little bit. Carol spoke with I believe Annette and Robin, or maybe it was just Annette. Um, that you guys are going to put together a conceptual list and then how long it will take to do the zoning. So she wanted that step to happen first. So that's, what's going on in that front. Um, I know that Annette still wants the route 20 planning to stay with the planning board, but typically in every single master plan, it's always multidisciplinary. So, but let's get that first stab and then go from there. Um, route 20 sidewalk curb kind of engineering just mentioned. So again, we needed to get the green light. The green light to be working with Tom Holder. So that's hopefully happening on Monday. Um, and clearly I can't wait for the route 20 task force because it's on hold. So we need to get small working group to start putting together the RFP, which is highly technical. It's mostly Tom and his staff. Um, in the meantime, as that gets put out the bid, choosing engineers, then hopefully we can gear up, um, with whatever this working group is, whether it's part of the route 20 task force or separate to this. So hopefully get that kicked off, um, existing. And then second, we're back to our, our main project with the building department. Um, and then Katie has to sign the contract, so she's getting all the stuff and she's, um, coordinating with them, and then in the second quarter conditions cleanup, this is also same thing, just making sure, uh, and coordinating with Michael McCall's office, who in his office will be our key contact. And then getting the okay to talk with the building department. So Katie, with that again, when I hear, then we'll be able to start strategizing with those guys and figuring out. Um, how best to tackle. Katie, we should probably dig that up. And maybe, you know, now that we're sort of unburied with snow, maybe take a quick checklist and see if these violations still stand or maybe there might be new ones. Sounds good. Yeah. So if you want to do that in the next week or two, and then we can kind of strategize. And, you know, we said we'll do as much or as little. We can write all the letters and just clear them with you guys. Or, you know, we can hand it off to someone. But however they want to do it. So hopefully we'll have guidance from Michael on that one to get that one moving now that it's springtime. The violations would be like things that they have in the... Yeah, sort of signage that wasn't approved, like the plywood sign that's out there or a lot of the temporary signs shouldn't be there. Anything that is building department, it's sort of if a letter comes from the town manager and the building inspector will kind of have a decent heft to it. And definitely the key is writing letters to everybody at the same time. So nobody's singled out. Yeah. Right. Right. We're all doing this together. Kumbaya. Because we might be asking for landscaping cleanup and, you know, things that are not code. Right. But just let's all work together to clean up the corridor. So. Becky, before we get to number eight, can I just circle back to the split tax rate? Yes. I do want to skip over that. Oh, sorry. Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's my philosophy is that's just kind of low hanging fruit. And just looking at the towns near us, there's a mix of dual wins. There's a mix of dual wins in single and single rate towns. But I think if you compare where Wayland is at their single rate to where other towns are at, either at their single rate or their dual rate commercial, I think there's easily three to four dollars per thousand that still keeps us competitive. Yep.
And, you know, I think we calculated it's real money. It's like $160,000 for every. Yeah. For every dollar. Yeah. So, I mean, if we have a three to four dollar swing, so Sudbury is is a split rate, a dual $21 and 54 cents for commercial. So we're at 1563 at a single rate. So even if we boost that three to three to four dollars, we're in the high 18s to high 19s.
Framingham's a dual rate. That's $23 and 97 cents for commercial. We're still well beyond. Well, below that, Waltham, $22 and 18 cents. Newton, 1806. Marlborough, 1843. Acton, 1715. So we're still very competitive, even with like another three to four dollars. So I don't. So a lot of those are like, you know, Waltham and Framingham. So the dual, yes, the dual ones. But the point is, whether they're single or dual, that's what people are paying for commercial. Right. So, you know, like Lincoln's very small. They have a dual and they're 1878 for commercial. Yeah, I think some of the smaller towns, I think that would be the most helpful, like the most relevant because people aren't deciding whether to be in Framingham or Wayland. Right. Right. They're they're considering between Wayland and Acton or Wayland and Lincoln or whatever. So I think those numbers will be the most compelling. Do you have like a chart or can you pull together a chart or have. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's. It's just, you know, generally in the area, what's what's a competitive rate for a commercial business to be there? And I don't think you're driving anyone out of the town by going to, you know, three to four dollars a thousand higher, you know, and that that seems like I don't know what's the process for getting that approved. You said that's not even town meeting. It's just. I think we're split tax rate. This probably has got to be town meeting. It feels like. A lot of taxation. I don't know. But somebody said it was it was select board. It didn't go to that last meeting. We were debating and we kind of we were leading towards. But, Robert, what did you say? Oh, to set up the assessors. Assessors. Board of assessors. Yeah, but they need approval from someone, don't they? Or no, just. It might be. It might be a slap. Why is there a assessing committee? Is that what I said? Yeah. They would make a recommendation. It might be. But it might be. It might be. Go to the software and then get. Because if you don't need town meeting, you know, I'm not a big taxation person. But like this still puts us in a very competitive rate. And I think there's enough commercial. Even if there's not enough commercial. I mean, look at Lincoln. Like, how do they have a dual rate? I have no idea. But I think just where we're at, even in commercial, it's it's just I don't want to say it's free dollars sitting there for the taking. But we're not taxing anyone out of the town. And I mean. Why don't you reach out to the chair of the board? Or assessors? Yeah. Okay. Just email them. I don't know who that is. I don't want to see like what the process would be. Or it's going to just say, you know, if we were considering this, what's the process? And and also get their feedback. It's curious what they're I'm sure they've contemplated in the past. I know the select board has. It may have been so long ago before it was always the discussion of, well, we're at, you know, are we going to go to like a twenty five rate like framing it like that when the select board shot down because we were having trouble keeping people here, but I think sort of that moderate, I don't know if they consider it to be interesting to find out from them because they would be the one. I mean, for this town, like this is the chair, staff interest. Yeah. Just go on that. Yeah. I mean, for this town, three, three, four hundred thousand dollars is like a big deal, right? Yeah. Year after year. Yeah. An extra three, four or five million dollars over ten years. That makes it makes a difference. Yeah, it's different. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, Jeff, you're going to reach out to the chair of the. Tax. Assessor.
And you can even just walk over to the assessor's office and talk to the assessor. They might be able to do that as well. But yeah, it'd be good to reach out to the board of assessors because that's because they must be the ones who said, you know, it must be the ones who said it. The assessor just follows their.
I'm wondering if it's worth reaching out to FinCom too, because I remember in that first original meeting we had with them, they were like, we're open to any ideas you guys have about raising revenue in town. So I don't know. I think that's great. And I think that's great. It's like, hey, you're going to have to take over from the assessor. So I think you're going to have to take over from the assessor if that's if it's worthwhile or better to wait until after you talk to the assessors. Okay. Play the playground. Pay to play. Put a coin in. It's like, just like Chuck E. Cheese. You know. Just filled just. It's just open arcade. Forget about the playground. No. Why not? All right. So we'll keep that moving along. Katie, I think you comment about the FinCom. So I think as we go into the next session, I think we're talking about, you know, like, you guys have quite a lot of questions. It's an arcade. Forget about the playground. Why not? All right. So we'll keep that moving along. Katie, I think you've commented about the FinCon. So I think as we, I think we'll be talking with them more as soon as we get the numbers from Brian Keveny. I think we just sort of work it on our conversations as we go. We can kind of keep adding it to our presentation. Especially if they're in a little bit of chaos right now. Yeah. They're, yeah, they're, they're really busy. So, and with everything kind of shifting around, I actually saw Pam Roman at the vet's office yesterday. She was saying there's a lot of turnover. So it sounds like they're really in flux at this point. So, but yeah, we absolutely will keep them, them in the loop. Okay. And then lastly, as we hope to end on time, right on time. So infographic, I split number six, thinking of the next one, number five, we still needed data from Brendan, the GIS guy, who that's part of the conversation on Monday with Michael and giving me information. But also there, is we were trying to get it pushed out because of discussions of Orchard Lane and, you know, eventually with this article, et cetera, we've kind of lost that window. And there is a public forum for the Orchard Lane parcel on Monday with the select board. I think it's their reading of the warrant articles and then they're flowing into that public forum. I forget who decided to do that. That's not what I would have done. I would have done that. I request for an information, put it out there. We have a tenant of the property. Come back. What do you think you could do on condos, townhouses, cottages, and to see what the, what the market will, will buy? Like what, what would people actually build? Yeah, that's, that's, that is what I would have done. I said put on this month something that has money to do in engineering, use that money, save it, and then figure out what we would build. And you don't, you don't take anything. You get back to three options. And then you're like, eh, I really don't want to see single parent houses. And it's like, that's not what it was. Yeah. You want to see, or someone come back and say, I'll do one big part of building. And you come back like, yeah, that's not what I want to see. But the word is request for information, not for approval. So this $200,000, which is a high number, frankly, but it, which is also, they should have asked for like 50 grand. Like this should just be an overall study because part of it is not just, should it be housing? Should it be school? Should it be some playground? Should it be like whatever? But ultimately, so this public forum, is literally just with local residents have been upset that they haven't been asked, like it just sort of came out of left field. And so, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be a little dicey. So we'll see what comes out of that. But I think after that, before we head into town meeting, I think that's sort of a good time to introduce some of the information. Um, so then, and then we'll hopefully we'll have the GIS and we can have this with that basic reference. And we see how, I mean, frankly, I met also said the GIS is not updated, but. We see how important it is to have the up-to-date information about that subdivision. It costs money. So I think the state, what is it like every four years or two years, the state asks us to update our parcel information. And I think the last time it was done is 2024. So Wayland is due for this year, 2026. That's why, like when I look at the data and mass GIS, I don't own my property, the previous owner owns. So that's also the reason. I was asking for the latest one. So if we ever do a land use map, I mean, probably nothing changed in the last two years, but still land use information is land use information. You would want to be stuck with the most current. Right. So, um, I think typically they publish around this time. I went back and look at when the Wayland last published that it was, I think April or may. So. We might have an updated layer for mass GIS very shortly, but only one, that's only land use. So theoretically, if we can get, a few others that wouldn't hurt them is mass GIS. We have to use and we'll use this coming by. So mass GIS, I don't know if he answered me. I don't know. We were mass GIS. It doesn't have the information. Some, but not old. I mean, what we wanted is I think Robert, you might be familiar with that map as well. The town made a land use map, like a literal land use map from vector layers. And I think back in the last master plan, they have like percentages of land used for things. Right. So our problem is when we want to create it from a mass GS layer, like my property, for example, like maybe 5% of my property is also protected wetlands. But if I get the summary from the land use files, the wetland is not going to show up. It's going to show up as single family, but that's the margin we're missing. We're missing things like what happens when multiple things, not land uses, but a land use, and then a protected land, or wetland or woodland is actually inside the properties. I mean, we could very well find that number, but again, it won't be the best number to literally asking all the different layers to be turned on, which the chart that we're realizing, the chart that Brian Kevney was using of wetlands and conservation land in this, it was not, these are not additive, right? Yeah. The wetlands will overlap some of the conservation and stuff will overlap the rest. We want that to be break, broke down. We want that to be broke down into a single category so we can literally see, and we're okay. If we don't have the data, they can, yeah, yeah. They can do it for us as long as they give us like a table, right? That's before, for the access to the GIS, like, no, we can't do that because we have one license and you might screw it up. I don't know. We're like, fine. We're just, I've been trying to get my stuff on the handle. That's up. Yeah. So now we're just having to give you a license. Well, and I've been trying to get one.
I mean, we should advocate for this at some point. I mean, I plan, I'm planning department without it's like super low on the top all things, which is like, what does it cost? It is expensive. It's expensive. I would assume nothing less than 10 grand a year. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, you're very familiar with the second system. One company, of course,
unless you use an open box, like, it's not standard. Yeah. I've used QGIS. You're not going to be able to share anything with anyone. It's not going to be an issue just to learn how to use QGIS. Right. I know how to use like open open toolbox and differently for hobbyists, but it will kill. They won't do the job for you. I mean, but I'll I'll learn how much does it cost? Yeah. It'd be interesting to know. I call it like 30,000, but I'm not sure that's accurate. It might be with all the enterprise and the media of it. If the town has it, all the stuff that we do, now that the license comes with Joe portals, web 3d and all that, we could have put the, the mass things directly into a context map and just put it into a website. Everybody could go in and say, we love it. We didn't like it and all that. I mean, it might add a little more transparency, which, you know, we will probably appreciate it might create more problems for all of us, but it, it, yeah, it might be something to do that. I'll, I'll check. All right. So infographic number six, thinking ahead, what we want to do for our next one, next one, before we were thinking that it would sort of a con, uh, continue a continuation meeting. Yes. Yes. Friday, um, of the FinCon discussion, but that hasn't really advanced. So the question is, you know, what do we want to do for our next infographic necessarily? I think we had talked about, um,
so the one we haven't, we don't have final final on the current one, number five. Is that correct? Right. But we should, we need to drop in that. Okay. And this one needy has this one, right? Correct. Okay. She's not here. So I'll follow up with her. Okay. Um, so it was the, I think that we had talked about Katie, correct me if I'm wrong here. This was understanding when it's commercial tax base. And then I think the email is very red. Like we're explaining, all the sides of the pie. Yep. And I think we had talked about doing a residential one next to like the value of the town home side of like translates the email into a visual, um, Katie, am I right about that? Is this all coming back? Um, I think so. It feels like it was a while. I know it feels debating what you go here, what you go there. So I think that that should be the next one. Okay.
Cause beyond that, I don't think there's anything that's necessarily this big, this or relevant to town meeting or yeah. Okay. We can eventually do one that has, um, if there's a little bit more activity in the town center, a plot of everything new that's opened. Well, hopefully they're doing it. I keep waiting for this kind of overall presentation on social media. Sure. Are they, are they meeting with the planning board officially?
In, in May okay. Cause there was some discussion about them meeting just preliminarily with the select board and then having like a joint select board planning, working just to understand everything. And you know, a really robust presentation that could be open to the public, but a lot of the people in public would love to love to hear all that. So, so that might happen. The short one may happen the end of April. And then ultimately with may, new committee members everybody else then that would happen on that early day so all right so with this next infographic you and katie want to work on it needy's not here you guys are kind of closer to it i could help you we want to who wants to katie do you have bandwidth to kind of think through the next infographic i'm sure i'm happy to work on it with needy kind of like start to put our arms around what type of information we would want to include i can talk with her about it yeah katie i would make life easy on yourself and just try and um the email that is going to get sent out at some point soon has a lot of this information in it about residential so i think mostly it'll be just kind of translating that to a visual visual do you mind sending that to me i don't think i've seen it okay yeah so that's that's the draft email that went with infographic five so we're waiting for approval yeah yeah yes so so i'll send that to you katie i'll circulate around the final because we approved it last time with little tweaks just waiting for that wetlands usable land metric um and then we can get that out so but i'll send that i'll circulate that around so then katie you'll have it terrific um wayland business ocean version 2.0 yes you're gonna reach out to jesse but i did oh you did okay yeah he came up with you um he's saying he was like pam from slot that therapy comes to mind jackie from jakara pediatric dental volleyball makes sense he's like i'll think more but he's happy to be involved we are a small business after all he says yeah there you go yeah so he's he's happy to be involved there and then i did mention there was a new tenant down in south wayland on west plane the new owner of the accounts building oh yeah yeah to get involved too so yep so stone is a change of sign so what seven popular sign here i don't have to see no no it's like this is why we put people assignments he's while chasing him down or chasing down until you get tired there's this one property owner in town chased down it a million times and after a while his talents got tired of chasing him just just send him the application but here's the link for the application can you please fill it out for your temporary and then because he said he wanted to do a new one so we also moved it from the new one just kind of move them along um all right and then the post permitting building department survey i had commented to needy you guys haven't yet if you can do that uh did you we're seeing it again i'll recirculate it just so people have it at the top of their inbox um so again when i was looking at it it was um it's kind of breaking it out a little bit more detail between building department and permits and approvals which sometimes the wheels will fall off on one and not another so i kind of added that but the concern is that it gets too long so i kind of gave it to needy like collect everything and then we can kind of condense from there but um are you done on that topic yes all right so we have to complete the massachusetts conflict of interest law thing every year two years i thought it was two but then this says state requires including to complete two education courses as follows please complete you know were you just emailed us yes when you log in who's going to send you a copy current calendar year now i haven't logged in you wait i saw somewhere in here that says did you do it before i did do it before i did it a year ago and i'm like i just i just talked about thank you does anyone else get it no but i did mine you're new i did my own yeah like only a few months ago did you get any email did you do your phone post recurrence this is what it says recurrence every year that was every two i think it was i think it was i think it was a smaller thing i think it's got five minutes like we have to make sure you just start to start to talk about this i still have to do my it's approximately 10 minutes yeah yeah it's not the whole hour yeah i was avoiding this i'm like i did my duty yeah we did all right so next meeting is which should be may 8th or we can get oh no may 8th i'm out of town how about the 15th that's the other wrinkle i'm out of town during town oh okay but you can also meet without um or you guys can meet on the 8th say that again you guys can meet on the 8th how about the 14th when are you what's like when is town meeting town meeting is the fourth fourth fourth and fifth i feel like we want you to be at the first meeting after town okay so if you can't do the 15th what works that following week so the following friday yeah this is is the friday of memorial day weekend is one in second right oh one more day you want to do that no no but the week of the d11 what has been the week of the 11th all week no no i just have something all day friday that i can't move um but i could do thursday morning let's do thursday i can't do the thursday i'm teaching teach thursday okay okay i could do wednesday the 13th for me
jeff david katie can you guys do wednesday the 13th um can we what about tuesday the 12th possibility or no i'm not saying no on the 13th i can do the 12th i can do 12 as well all right can we do the 12th david katie the 12th i can do the 12th david i'm gonna be a little tentative on that one just because of earlier in the week but yeah i will try to plan ahead okay is tuesday any worse than any other day sounds like you've got a lot of a lot of fun overseas on your plate yeah most days are just kind of uh fun all right all right so we'll go for tuesday the 12th and uh we will set it up from there same time same time 8 30 5 a.m 5 a.m you know she got that in front of like whoa that's a little early oh my gosh all right anything else before we adjourn hearing nothing do i hear a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn motion do i hear a second second second all in favor ali yes yeah hi hi becky i david i heard an eye and then katie hi all right we are adjourned at 10 0 2
So I don't have to read the preamble. I'm so programmed to read the preamble. So Tom, welcome. See you're- Thank you, good morning, everybody. You're in your commute. Good morning. We're actually gonna have- No pressure to look at us, Tom. Yeah. Don't look at us. Jean's gonna have a public comment where she's gonna talk, it'll be like probably like five, 10 minutes. Do you have a time limit? Is there anything that you wanted to raise or otherwise as we kick off the meeting or we have to stick around a little bit? No, I need to leave at 8 55, but nothing on my agenda, no. Okay, perfect. All right, hey, Robert, good morning. So with that, we will open up public comment. This is Jean Milburn, who is a prior member of EDC and another generation of EDC. Right. But strong housing advocate, but as we all know, housing can also be economic development as well. So Jean wanted to raise a few topics, which could be overlapping in what we're doing, but it's just great to raise that awareness and have it on our radar screen. Yeah. Great. Thank you for allowing me to come and make public comment. And your address? I'm at 281 Concord Road. There you go, perfect, okay. And as Becky said, I'm a former member of this committee. I currently serve on the housing part, a large partnership, but I'm not here as their representative today. I'm just here as myself. And actually for my first topic, I'm really glad that Tom is here because Tom and I have been working together on this project for disabled housing at, let's see, 212 Conchitawood Road. Yep. It's a great project. And I'm so proud that Parkham's stepped forward, land available for disabled housing. I joined the committee because I have a child with a disability, and they were kind to let me join, and I really got quite an education about the crisis of housing for disabled people in the Commonwealth. It's really quite heartbreaking. So I think we can all be proud that we're going to move forward and do something on that site. I'm just here basically to encourage your interest in the project. I think it's a project that affects the entire community, and I'd like to see people thinking about this as how do you make the lives of these people good lives, and how do they fit in our community and do well? And that's amazing. That's the main mission of this committee. You spend a lot of time asking those questions, how do you build a community where everybody is welcome and participating, everybody has a place, everybody has a fair chance. So I just wanted to let you know we're in the process of issuing the RFP for proposals for the site, and I hope as the proposals arrive that you'd be interested and participate in the process of helping decide. We're not going to spend a lot of time on the portal and helping decide a direction for the TAM. That's topic number one of three. Topic number two this morning is the Housing Production Plan. So the Housing Partnership, the entity in TAM that is responsible for basically strategic planning for housing. There's a process by which there's a report prepared every few years that is sent to the State and the State can go through that and get the approval that they need. I'm going to let you go over there. Thanks. state aggregates the data from this report for all the towns and gets an idea about what all the towns in the commonwealth as a whole are likely to do in housing production what goals they've set um and being new to this committee you know one of the first things i did was read our housing production plan and i was struck that while it it set many wonderful objectives it didn't very clearly define a path to achieving the objectives and i think that it would be really great for the housing committees in town to be interacting with other committees and talking about process for this at the intersection with economic development at the intersection with environmental groups in town we find a lot of times that the housing and environmental people are bumping heads i think it's unnecessary if they talk to each other more in advance of building projects we could achieve some understanding about the path forward so i encourage your interest in the housing production plan and i hope to see your committee invited to meet jointly with the housing partnership my third topic this morning uh accessory dwelling units um i'm an enthusiast and a supporter of accessory dwelling units um i think they give us an environmentally sound way to add housing units to our town in most cases these units are going to get dropped on to lawns and backyards uh which is basically an ecologically dead zone and it's a way to not have to build a lot of infrastructure in order to add housing units so we're not cutting down forests we're not grinding in roads we aren't pulling sewers and utility lines we're basically working with what we have and doing more modest upgrades as needed and so i really encourage this committee's partnership with uh the housing groups in town to help us do public education about accessory dwelling units and i think it's salient to your committee because the economic benefit and um my next remark is not intended to insult developers but basically the model we're used to is a professional developer comes in and builds housing and then leaves the community with the wealth generated by the project what an adu does is create an opportunity for private property owners here in town to finance their own project build their own project and capture the economic benefit of that project so we add housing units where the wealth generated by this flows into our community and i think that it's very powerful especially in this time where the whole commonwealth is really strapped for housing and people can't find anything place to put their grandmother or their adult children or their disabled family members uh it's a way to build wealth and families make them stronger and get the house that we need and um thank you for listening those are my three topics and i hope over the coming year or so that we'll have a chance to engage on those topics a quick technical question i'm not sure if you know the answer to this but um let's say a homeowner has a four-bedroom septic system and they have four bedrooms in the house can they drop an adu on no um they're limited by the septic they would have to drop they would even have to expand their septic yeah or go to a new one or take one of the bedrooms and say we're not going to you have to go through a building inspection they will come and verify and you're only allowed to have and that's another setback in there so typically let's assume you have a house with six rooms but you want to just say i have four bedrooms you're allowed to have all the bedrooms you're allowed to have only one home office room so there's not really an escape route from that as well so the sixth room when you have the one home office typically would qualify for a bedroom so this is going to be a lot easier for towns that have town water and store correct yeah yeah but when it's important that you're comparing the cost of building an adu people are worried about the cost of the septic system bumping up the adu project cost but if you're not the adu project cost even with an upgraded septic and compare it to trying to buy a housing unit something yeah but you're assuming you can get the perk test like where you need it to also it's not a it's not a given you know greenhouse yeah yeah i i totally yeah i think it was well said like 100 you know it's definitely at the end of the i mean you can get a prefab adu and drop it on your house and yeah it's going to be a lot cheaper than like building the way i look at it it's a tool in the tube box i don't know if like everybody has can use it or yeah it works for everybody right am i not a worker but it might sound like looking like i just don't have the money to to do an au maybe maybe someone bought an au and put on my property and then i paid they paid rent for me like this different scenario that i think about but unless someone has that nice you know i have a former house and it's like i don't need for a bedroom house it's just me i can i can get rid of a bedroom deed restricted and then someone can build an ado property, and I can get it rented that way. So, different scenarios, flexible, so people... I had a question about density on the ADU, Robert. So, typically, where ADU is really popular, like I've seen it when I worked in California a lot, because it basically increases the density allowance. But I think in our case, I mean, I don't know if we ever did a study like that, but for most of, I'm assuming, the single-family stock in Wayland, you can typically do an extension, like ADU just probably fast-tracks the permit process, but it doesn't allow you something out of the box, right? But for a state like California, where land is much minimal, like an average single-family in California is less than a quarter of an acre. We have a lush acre of land, most of us. So, typically, I mean, in theory, I think ADU just, like you said, adds another tool to your but theoretically, you could do it as an extension, I guess. I did a little exercise a while ago where the assessor's office gave me the sizes of every single-family dwelling in town and just kind of went through and grouped them by 7,000 square feet up 60 cents. And most of the houses in our town are occupied by two people, sometimes half a kid. I mean, the number of people living in houses is very small. There are many opportunities, basically, just to divide off a piece. And you know, I think that's very important. Yeah, I think that's very important. The town could choose to change rules and decide to do something different, but it has not at this point. But a lot of people are going to be able to very quickly just divide these big houses. What if you had a non-conforming law? Do you have to go to ZBA for that, too? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I'm just thinking of all the rentals. There's no big obstruction, for example, a non-conforming law. And I had to go when I wanted to put an addition on my house and do a big deep energy retrofit on it. And they were perfectly reasonable. I just followed the rules. And they signed off. The two things that are like tricky is that health. So the septum, and also the conservation, if you're like around the wetland or creek or something. I had to do some due diligence. Robert actually helped me. So it seems like only those two things are unknown. Like you can't really predict before making an application, which might be tricky in certain cases, because you have to hire somebody to make the application. And then you might just say, well, this doesn't work. It's just true. We have an article on Time Meeting 4, correct, for today to allow by such a point. Largely, you can use a 900 square feet. That would be on Time Meeting. And that would allow for anything larger than 900 square feet. So if someone had 1,100 square feet, they can get a special partner from the planning board. We've seen some people come in and say, we want to do one, but we have bigger bathrooms and we need bigger, you know, like we can't meet the 900 square feet. So we need that exemption. So anything larger than that 100 square feet could be helpful for people who are trying to build this internet, you know, accessible. A wheelchair or who just needs a lot wider, you know, doors and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Natalie, you were saying California. I mean, all of this, you only looked at California. That's where we're going to be in 15, 20 years, right? ADUs started there. It's like the whole thing. Now in California, what you're doing is multiple ADUs and multi-story ADUs. Again, more dense. But when you think about it, there's septic costs. If you're really going to do it and you had to upgrade your septic, are you going to do it for 900 square feet? Right. It may be problematic. But if you could do two, if you could really do a family compound where your mother could be there, elderly mother, as well as your, you know, your younger kids who are just have, you can have the family compound or you can have renters or whatever, like getting that density might be enough to get it over the hump. Cause in the suburbs, it will, it will be tougher. One thing you just mentioned was some of these houses are really big. And so if you have a four bedroom house and you have to lose a bedroom, you're going to lose value, that main house. And that's going to be the hard part, but if you can keep it within the house or add on, and actually David lives in one, or his, his parents added on to the existing house. I've seen it. It's lovely. But when you keep it with the existing structure, as you know, a growing family may come in and they may have just a baby, right. And they want to have three kids, but they don't need four bedrooms right now, but they can use it as an ADU. And then as they grow, they can expand that value will stay with the house. As soon as it's a little bit remote, you're going to lose value on that. Once you put a deed restriction on it, that's like kind of like. So it's kind of thinking through, but I think that there, I think you're right. There are big house, big houses where you have very few people who they don't want to leave their home, but they probably would be more than happy to sort of carve out an apartment, whether it's for their kid is just graduating college or whatever, or renters or yeah, whatever. A lot of us, our older generation, it's costing 10,000 a month to keep somebody in a nice, this is living community. Yeah. Yep. That's big. It's 120,000 a year. It's an improved section. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. And that's just right. And ADU is there to stay. So after the care, it might be turned into some other sort of like rental, whatever. So you just say one last thing, doubling back to 212. So I was supposed to have sent you around the report that they did. I'll send it after this, but it's just kind of a findings of what should go there and thoughts process. So Jean being in prior ADC or in a housing advocate was advocating for more units on site. Others were advocating for less. If you're aware of, you know, where 212 constituent is. So it's, it's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's a little bit different. It's along the main road, larger lot sizes, bigger homes around it. It's not really, it's within kind of a vernacular there. Right. So as you and I were talking about it, you know, the intent is, I think the, the leaning was most of the committee was fewer units just so it fits in the neighborhood. Jean is more the advocate. We have what, four acres, two, three, four acres, let's do more. Right. Yeah. And so that happy meeting is always, what does it look like? Right. That's what the neighbors care about. So if you want to lean into more density, make it look like put a fence out front, have a therapy horse, make it look like a horse farm. Right. As long as you make it and then it's like three buildings instead of one that looks very institutional. It looks like a house, looks like a carriage house, looks like an ancillary building, right? It feels something that anybody moving in next door, they're not going to lose that value. So by allowing more units, you may be able to get a better design, which at the end of the day services everyone. So it's like, is there a happy meeting? Cause it's very hard to say, let's have, you know, 35 units here when there's a single home next door. But if you could, instead of 10, like what's the recommendation right now? So eight or 10, a little bit of background. Yeah. The typical quote group home now that is supported with DDS money, which is disability services in this commonwealth. Typically it will have five to eight people living in a one by four by five micro. There's one on route 20. I don't know if you're aware. Yeah. And it is my sense after being in the committee and we had many, many visitors come and talk to us, professionals, state governmental people, all kinds that were approaching a transition period in disability housing. That current model, they estimated it was costing a hundred and $10,000 per person per year. To use this housing model. The other problem with the housing model is there's people who are not necessarily convinced that this is making the disabled people a lot happier, you know, then they maybe could be in a different setting. So the DDS has been giving permission for exceptions to this housing model and trying different things. I think they're putting a toe in the water. They give somebody permission to try something different and that's going on right now. So I think we're in this transition period where we're looking for a way to assure very high quality of life, but also be able to help more people with the money that's available to help. So what happens is, you know, a certain number of people get to the top of the list, unfortunately due to terrible disabilities. And then there's a cutoff line. And then the next level of support is much lower. And so I think they're trying to experiment looking for models that they can say, okay, these more dense project can be built in a way that does not degrade the quality of life, but actually you can, you can improve, you know, be more sensitive to the riches of the people themselves and do something slightly different. So I'm just concerned that we participate in this transition time. In a, you know, lawful, constructive way and really look for how do we optimize our impact? We have a shared living site plan on the May 13th plan board agenda for a six unit Michael apartment complex, two floors, six small units, bedroom, bathroom, closet, kitchen. That'll be, you know, that's correct. that's going to fly that's it right where is that uh local street prostitute and logos the local school yeah that's the one with the barn correct and it's already i thought it was already built the house is redone right that's one that's your it's different oh interesting okay i'm not sure that's that's i'm not sure that's the new model that i'm thinking about but that's a six like six bedroom micro house and now if it everything goes through that would be uh then bonded and uh moderated and done by minimic art and if that happens just that i mean in town so excellent all right well gene well thank you for uh yeah thank you for seriously giving me your time when i can see you have a very golden gen so i'm just camper out of here awesome thank you have a good weekend you too all right so meeting minutes we had the units i circulated for march if were there any comments to those or otherwise david katie no all right do i hear a motion karen motion do i hear a second i'll leave seconds all in favor ali yeah karen yes becky i david hi hi morning katie morning all right so i'm sorry jeff all right it's like leaning around there you go perfect all right so town planner update robert what's the latest well hopefully this will be open
like a bomb went off i know today i don't know it's like they said they'd be done next week but so we were cutting next week regardless at 10 a.m uh with them uh at the site so that'll be interesting to be fun to be select one members agc members i'll be there hopefully time manager will be there uh and then we support from uh james the elders office too so and i bet you people from corporate will be there too from coming on some journey so uh yeah that's that's moving forward yeah um maybe it'll be next week may not at this point we're going to have a rumor cutting just because we already planned it all yeah so um for what it's robert i drove by this morning after school drop off and they had an 18-wheeler backed up and they were just unloading tons of stuff so they're quite busy impression is that they have some kind of deadline in their head. Every day they're losing money. There's no money coming in for coffees and stuff. So they're probably pushing as fast as possible to get anything done so they can get an inspection done and then open. Is the fence down? I don't know. I haven't got by the site because of all the construction. Fence is not down because they're still working. They had three guys doing electrical on the patio. They're throwing all the bodies at it. You're going to pull the fence and then cut the ribbon. Might turn into the motions. The only thing that would be outstanding is they need to come to the plan board for outdoor seating, which they said they didn't know about it, but I told them many times. Which is not a big deal. We worked out the building for Memo. There would be some kind of condition where it says you can't have outdoor dining until you go to plan board. You know, traditional conditions. So I think they'll care that. But we're just going to do a temporary CO and they did that with financing when it works. So we're going to negotiate just getting them a CO when eventually they're done with the conditions and they need to go to the outdoor dining. What happens when somebody pulls their own chair and sits there and eats? That sounds like they get arrested.
Next Friday it's supposed to be 70 degrees. It's fine. Bring your chair. So this is the last time I visit the other dungeons. It's coming soon. It's on the website. You can't push it yet, but it's there. The JavaScript is there. You can see it. So that would be good. I also did a lot of research on the meal tax. And so I found the whole spreadsheet of all the meal tax in every town you can see. It's on the DO website. You go back each year, you go by it goes by each quarter, and then you can see the final numbers. And we're collecting about $250,000 to $300,000 a year in the last few years. And I ran some projections of what it looks like for the next two years. We're looking at next year about $25,000 in extra meal tax. Just Dunkin' Donuts, Terrain Cafe in a Terrain, the wedding site. Based on very low Sorry, what was it again? $25,000 extra. Just based on those three. And I think about it, why is it so high? Oh, you know why? Because alcohol is going to have a huge margin. So if you go to a cafe and you get an avocado toast, you're going to get an espresso martini. A moza. Yeah, those things are going to increase the cost compared to a cafe beach, the bistro down the street, the townhouse bistro, who doesn't have a liquor license yet. So a little bit of beer or wine, whatever. They probably will get a beer or wine, but they haven't done it yet. So that's $25,000. And then basing on that, this is a very conservative number. I did a lot of research on what an average Dunkin' Donuts makes a year and what the Terrain makes in the market. The year after, it should go up to $35,000. So it should go up to $10,000 just minusing the few weeks, the few months that you missed out on some weddings in July, August, and September. And that's very conservative. So somewhere in the $25,000, $20,000 range, you would expect just two parties. Just those two alone? Yeah, just those two parties. And that bistro, I put down very, very low numbers just because I can't tell how many you do, but it's going to bring in some money. And it seems so small. You look at it and you're getting $0.75 for $100 spent at Dunkin' Donuts. But then it adds up very fast. Especially with these caterings, you have two wins a weekend. For most weekends, the numbers are going to go up and up. Have you heard anything about new tenants at Town Center? Not that there's going to be a cafe, but I have no clue what it's going to be. They're working in that corner. They're working in that empty corner of our cafe. Just no information. But they're talking to people. There's action. And there's one more big tenant that's leaving, too. The website, I think it's going to be leaving, too. Ace is leaving? Yes. It's on the I can see the website. It's on whose website? On Graffiti? Yes. It says they can go to work trying to fill that. Well, they'll carve it up. They'll probably have something about it. That's fine. So I haven't sent an email yet. I'm waiting for Town Manager to come be over to work on the next year once Town Manager and Finance are ready for next year. But I was a little surprised. I had a very low number for us. And then they really dug into the deep terrain. I was like, oh, these numbers will be big. And so it's about 25. It's a concern number based on WDLs. And based on WDLs, I think 90,000. I think I'm thinking about 90,000 for a month. I mean, I'm pretty good on the low side of what the numbers would be for that busy corridor, WDLs. And looking at it around, there's no WDLs anywhere in that Route 20 corridor, except for Sudbury. But if you're going down 95, this is it. Unless you hit the gas station. So. So Jakara also will be expanding, will be huge. Do we know more about when they're opening? I know they were aiming for the middle of April, but. They were on the middle of April. I don't know anything. I reached out to Jackie, the owner, and said, let me know when you're ready to move it, honey. Mike. He didn't respond back, did he? He did. He said he'd like to let me know. OK. So they might not be opening yet. Or they might just open and then do a few weeks back later, which is fine. Is there signage there for Jakara? I've seen window signage, but I don't think I see it. It still has the bagel. They have, like, ten cows on the side. Stop it. Maybe it was a week or two ago. No, now there's Jakara. I remember seeing there was something about fresh sushi or something. Then the Bistro. I think they're a plant by the side. So they have approval for the outer dining and for the restaurant. But they're just trying to walk through some of the renovations and stuff. So unclear when they'll be open. Maybe March. I don't know. I mean, how fast it'll move. Who? The beach. The town. Iceland. How fast? March? I'm just being very concerned. The numbers. Why would you say that's like a year away? I have no clue how fast it'll move. Which I thought was very aggressive. Don't get us out of there for a while. Don't get us out of there for a while. So I'm just being very assertive. I don't know. She's December, June, March, any fall, I don't know. They wouldn't want to open June anymore. So they've either hit the holidays or they're going to bust. Yeah, I feel like it's October or bust. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just being super concerned. So I ran the number. I did. I feel like March, she's super concerned. I'm just very concerned. Hm. So that snap happens. Do they have a building permit pulled yet or? I don't know. I don't know. Really? Yeah. They're doing reno right now. Right? In Collins Building? Yeah. Oh, I haven't seen. Really? Well, I mean, they already started in February. I haven't driven. I mean, maybe I've driven by, but I haven't booked. Yeah. So I guess I'm just assuming. It's April now. She's well behind schedule. That's the case. You want to reach out? Are you still there? Sure. Yeah, just ping her and find out. So overall for the build tax, I looked at what we could we compare pretty like in the medium. A Medfield, a Medway, somewhere that range is what we're hitting. We're not the highest. We're definitely not the lowest. Like a Weston, we're definitely in that middle. So there's a good $250,000, $300,000. Maybe we'll hit $3,000, $100,000, $300,000 this year, one or two. So there's a good amount of money. And the question is, what do you do with that? So I looked at, we have Ashland. We have Poplinton. Both. We have, you can't do a revolving fund. So you do a town meeting vote, and then you do a special administration with the state. And it's a special revenue fund, and that's what we call it. You can't do a revolving fund. So it's not called a revolving fund. So it's a specialization from the state to do a revere fund that comes in. So that might be one option. It's a lot of work. Or you might just say, we have x amount of money that comes in. We're going to add a general budget. We're going to use policy. And take x amount of money and use that for economic development for whatever it is, grants or whatever you want to do. So there's, I mean, that's a lot of time to do, too. They just collect the money, and they appropriate x amount of money to different things. But if you want to be more strategic and make it more of a, this is what we do, then it just comes to a fund, which is a pro. But then it has a con of, then you're taking all that money. So you can't be flexible. So there's no one way to do it, but I'll present all that to the finance director and the town manager once the town meetings close. That's just what we do. Do you have a sense of what the towns are doing with it? I mean, we know that Ashland did an economic development director. Yes. But now Hogton is doing some grants, a general operating fund, and then hiring a midpoint hire in December. And that's the plan. That's what they're doing now. They put x amount of money into the funds. And they just started slowly collecting money. And they're, I want to say, about $200,000. They're actually less than us. We actually take a lot of money, actually give them money for a tax. Yeah. Jeff, have you looked at it all during the month or no? Anything to add to that before we, since we kind of just dove in? No, Robert sent a nice spreadsheet over with all the totals for the towns and some of the ones he was comparing to. So I mean, do you need? No, we were talking and you guys are going to look at it. So yeah, I didn't get it. I don't know. Do you want us to do anything? So next step, you're kind of writing a memo for finance and town manager. Yeah. OK. So it's kind of next steps. Yeah, if you want to circulate, I think most are not doing anything special. They're just taking the money, either using it for general purposes or they're using their money and pointing to it and to a general general. It's only like I'm going to actually really went ahead and made a deal that's working. You make sure, especially if I was great. Yeah, I told you I could pull out what I actually want to pop in as to example. Actually, I've been there for a while. They had a regional idea. So how does our rate compare? It's the same, same every point, every point, the same thing at 0.75. I think I like it when less because why not? You can't go higher than that. So yeah, that's the match with the state. Right. OK, so I think they go out there. I can do that. And you're going to go after him. The bigger ones. But surrounding. Here we have Weston and I think cognitively most I'm doing this. We just kind of in the middle of that kind of, you know, the southern between that. By what point? But it must be higher. Maybe. Right. So we run through the topic. So the select board feedback to EDC. So I met with the select board on March 30th. Beforehand, it was confirmed at this point and Tom has actually dropped off. But going forward, we do not have to wait for approval from the select board, which is. Great because we just were otherwise waiting three and a half months so we can work directly through Tom Fay and Michael McCall. So that's terrific. So we just updated them on the list of what we were doing. I think the only pushback Carol Martin is just concerned about the playground element, but more so. We don't know as a town what we actually want to do with the whole town green. I said, well, that's exactly what the first steps with any designer will be. So with that playground, town center has said. We'll, we'll bring in our landscape architect and we'll help you plan that. And we're like, great. So we'll get that for free. And one of the first steps is literally laying out that park and where do you want to put the playground and what else do you want to leave room for? You know, what are their amenities? I mean, David, when you talk about it before, you know, it's not just a playground, it could be a stage. It could be, you know, whatever it is, pergola, whatever shade, et cetera. So that'll be one of the first steps. So that seemed to be a decent answer. So a lot of the stuff now that we. Yeah. Yeah. What are the things that we need to so that we can continue to work on and re-design what's the next step? Yeah. So when we do have to re-design anything and we want to be interfacing with town staff, I'm actually meeting with Tom Bay and Michael on Monday so that we can get the green light to talk with rec. Ideally we would go through that design process with. Catherine Brenna of recreation, but we'll just make sure who's going to be in those discussions. So hopefully all of this will break loose pretty quickly. the joint finance committee. he had a stroke and he's fine, but he's stepped down from FinCom. And so Carl is trying to kind of step in. He was the vice. So a lot of that stuff shifting around. So I think now, as soon as town meeting is over, I think that we'll get a lot of that data we're looking for. Does Brian have to pull the data? Like, is he, does he have to like actually pull all this together and run a report or is it, does it exist? And he needs to dig it up like already. He kind of has it already, but he's been waiting for debt service schedules from the banks. Like he doesn't have that. I'm not quite sure. He was waiting for the CIPC, the capital improvements planning committee, which their plan came in. I think it was reviewed by the town manager's office. Some of those big ticket items, he kind of wanted to make sure that it was right. I mean, this is a 10 year projection and it can go a lot of different directions. So he's just being diligent. And so we should be able, and part of it too, it was just tied up. But now that we're getting closer to town meeting, the warrants basically done a lot of this stuff, the heavy lifting stuff at this point. So he's back on the case. We were just, you know, this past week. So I think that we'll hopefully have that data soon. So we'll keep that moving long. All right. Town meeting article OO. What is the official number now, Robert? Let's have a number. I don't know. Not really. It's article OO. Article OO. It's a town warrant. It's live. I don't have the number. Yeah. These are the numbers pop up by now. I feel bad using you. Change the article name numbers to the latest numbers. And it is that good point. I know I know. I'll buy the letters. I don't know about the other numbers. It's there. So we all met jointly. I think everybody was there that's on this. Yeah. He was on. So we had discussion. It was just interesting to hear how the planning board approaches it. What are the, you know, what are the regulations versus what is the zoning? So basically we had had sort of a draft zoning because we had had sort of the PowerPoint presentation, which had the recommendations. But I knew Annette would say, well, where's the zoning for me to look at so so i just put it on the page um but one of the pages uh underneath your agenda is what was presented at that meeting just completely just stabbing in the dark right just thinking about how to draft it based on what we heard there's a revision particularly what robin was heading was keep the numbers with the numbers those are in the table keep the qualitative in the regulations so it's just kind of rounding out that discussion the bottom of the page is just having an asterisk so again there was the concern that the select board if we change the mbta zoning that we will somehow void it that it won't be approved so keeping everything in the asterisk the table stays the same but allows that flexibility puts the dimensions with the dimensional table and then keeps the qualitative with the design regulations which is more of the planning board and not having to be reviewed by the state so specifically it's just one asterisk we're actually three because there's two priors but it's just a bonus and you just say next to the height and next to the the density may increase from 20 units to 32 and may increase to 56 from 35 with an 80 foot minimum setback from route 20 and a maximum four occupied residential floors and a maximum 45 foot height meaning a three-story building for the first 15 foot of the building closest to route 20 so it was we talked about the the the the the the the the the the the the the the step massing you can either define that or you can just do it this way this keeps it relative no matter where the building lands what we found at river's edge when we did the guidelines we were at two stories three and then four the developers just pushed back to where it started at three because the two wasn't cost efficient four is more cost efficient three the same way developers will naturally go to that because there is room for 25 percent lot coverage they'll naturally just step back until they go to the next block and then they're going to be able to get to the next block to the four stories so keep that step in which is not overly onerous but left to their own devices they'll just cite so they don't have to do it i have a question um so that's all that is yes you're saying you're suggesting this revision yes so this is up above is what we talked about and handed out this based on what we heard this would be this could be a potential that we could then send to the planning board and say you know this is all that would have to be kind of like added at town meeting floor do you need one robert yeah i'm not missing one time that's pretty bad i've not seen a movement at all you just need one all right did you need one then the one after the meeting correct the four nine yes oh yeah yes um so they didn't see something being long and onerous it's really like pulling apart those two parts so that all that would change on town meeting floor is adding this third asterisk after you know in the table that wouldn't know we couldn't use route 20 in the guideposts you can't as a roadway you can use the route 20 property line got it that is definable okay because the roadway where is it dead i get that get it totally get it so that was changed to recognize that um the occupied floors that caps your overall height the main concern with the 58 feet you most likely will get a five over one building you'll get a six-story building right because developers will always go to whatever's highest most efficient or smaller footprint smaller roof better views more efficient i mean it's just they'll naturally go to that so we just need to limit it so someone can have a flat roof if they wanted to or they could have a peak truth that allows them within that and we dropped a little bit to 56 just because 58 was from alta oxbow but that was because there was huge topo at the back of the site yeah so 50 56 allows a roof without getting overly heavy so it just kind of scales it down a little bit that's the reason the roof is in the way so that was just talking to bill sterling and kind of thinking that through um so all it does is if the zoning table is all about envelope all this does is provide a bonus doesn't change the table at all just gives you that added benefit if you want to exercise it and then in the design regulations down below if you do that bonus and you have to worry about facade length if you do the bonus you can have surface parking which otherwise the guy that's going to do it just doesn't. guidelines or the regulations say the parking has to be in the side in the back right have you shared that yet no so we're just literally we have not deliberated here so the intent is let's try to close the loop so that we can give something to the planning board i think you guys are meeting next week and then you can decide if you want to do something about so whether it's but the concern is the zoning as it stands today is could be a problem right and it's if something got built under that was built badly it could set us back in growth goals and otherwise and people would ask how the heck did this happen and does each uh does the town have um an actual mbta zoning bylaw or is that a state thing no so the state that's the page and that's the table sorry i jotted it down but so we had you know the state law we had to create our own bylaw creating as of right now housing it can't be special under under mbta heading under that so this is that front page there is that was the article um that was done so it's literally it's the all the logistical grid all the facts constraints units per town makes any modification they have to send it to the state level to get approved or no yeah so so we heard that the concern was oh if we change it we send to the state the we're going to be out of compliance so robert you could even what if they just reject it and say you need to modify it or reject it like why would we be out of compliance why wouldn't they just say no you can't do it you can't do the aspects and you're fine so it's an easy conversation but i don't i don't think you get sent to like purgatory because you suggest a change and they don't accept we can even ask town council i mean literally they don't want us to be out of the grid doesn't change right we are adding a bonus no rights are taken away there shouldn't be any issue we could ask town council i mean even if they say no it's like why would that default you into non-compliance i mean you already have approved this might be this might be a bit of strategy because if you if you if you say it's a bonus and like and then they come back like yeah you can't do that then then you'd be you'd be fine what's the worst thing they say they say no and it just stays it stays the same as it is so like i don't understand why there's a concern that no it's the whole thing no it's the way that it was the way that it was done originally we had where you changed it just the way it was different it was driving differently for me i might be wrong but my ins my my feeling is that the planning board decided that this will happen so i i i think that because i wanted to question the same thing as well i was like okay so what happens if it stays the same you already zoned it and we're claiming there are no developers with this density well we'll just keep it as it is maybe somebody would pick it up yeah i think there was some steering in that meeting like oh if you if you take a swing at this and miss then then you're like you're in trouble i i don't see it like that i mean you got you know that can be verified but it's like nothing ventured nothing gained you know it's i'm with you but you know robert would be a better person to answer that i don't think there's any harm in asking the state right we didn't pass it we're playing around with the idea but it seems like we are more playing around with the idea i think the planning board looks at this as like i don't know maybe eighty percent done so at this point that might be breathing the tension on this
yeah i think the way that you drafted me originally i think it was it was could have been an issue with the amendment i think the reason i think you you had you had to mention that you had things that might have been more critical that would change it but if you have bonuses the worst case scenario in that case they just strike it yeah they'll just say it was always sort of below it was always we don't want to disrupt the main grid it's just what if you want to go beyond that i think the problem is the burden fell on the edc to figure out how to put that learning into place you guys are the ones that wanted to to modify it and like figure out what's what's that path to to make it so that i have all the party don't work out i mean honestly just to keep it on record i was expecting the pb meeting would be about that thank you for the idea let's actually work it out so we could write it as well i think there's planning boards well i think it was your idea it's just you need to explain how to how to modify it so we can make it work because the plane was fine with how it drafted that's that that's about lying i'm a bit concerned so the question is with this as you guys are reading it does it kind of do what you think it what we were wanting to do i'm okay yeah i think it does at least it gives the town some control over like how we want to see the building that's thing can i just ask a question as a town developer is there any way we could break this into two sentences i have trouble and it might just be because i'm not just reading this stuff but like okay so may increase to 32 units per acre and 56 feet maximum height with 80 feet minimum setback from your 20 property line and maximum four occupied residential floors and maximum 45 feet i'm just like i'm lost in this should we flip it so it's the lower and then it goes to the higher or perhaps and like can we just break can we break it it's a little bit of a carry-on sentence yeah uh right so we could just have a sort of a one and a two okay that help i think so like it just helped you break it up as you're reading it yeah like what goes with what what um yeah or we could just put a full stop after floors and just say for the first 15 feet of the building closest to 20 line the maximum height would be 45 feet and three stories uh yeah something like that just break it
this looks very zoning cody by the way that's right and i thought totally that's why right so they might revert it to this but i'm totally with you because i hate the way we write zoning code typically with all the hashtags and everything embedded inside it let's write it as a lay person's view and then actually it might be the planning board who might want to put this into a structure of their own language there yeah okay so two cents exactly so maybe like starting with it's starts to get you start to lose it a little bit at in maximum 45 feet height yeah so may increase break it what is the condition so the condition is that they how may they achieve this so they can increase the 32 and 56 feet if if or with or if what if one they comply with the 80 minimum setback and maximum floors okay and two if they're only maximum 45 foot height and three occupied floors closest to the road okay yeah i would say if the following conditions are met one and two perfect yeah exactly the language that this term oh my goodness and then do one and two right okay anything else to add david or katie anything um my one thought is what do we want to think about what happens if we send this to the planning board and they decide to not go with it do we have like a potential next step i don't know if we want to think about that or not but that's just something that comes to mind do you mean katie that they don't want to reach out to ask the question or they want to reword it um that they just decide to not do anything with our suggestions yeah that's the question on town meeting floor you know do you comment and i think that you would have these visuals you have to warn the public like they have to see the visuals that this is what the zoning can create and i think you get an immediate response right so it we would be remiss if we didn't warn tamil voters we we know of this massing without the rendering like this is going to kind of just just over exactly yeah but i think as soon as you have a rendering that it's five over one and it's you know 30 feet in the road like holy moly yeah even had a version without actually screaming trees i'm glad it looks like it looks like a huge retaining wall that that one that you did with the uh it might happen i mean uh robert would have better input on this but typically like in other towns that i see the scale they would actually submit this kind of work and say here's how the landscaping would look with the time of plantation and sometimes the planning board's even But conditions that any tree that needs to be planted should be no less than making it up right now. Caliper, two-inch caliper. Exactly, right? So I understand it's kind of like late in the game because it's also NBTA, like we have a lot. But I think what we're asking is probably in the reasonable range. This definitely is going to have to be septic because of the elevation, right? Didn't you say it was too cost prohibitive to go to the sewer? They're probably going to have to have a package. System, I would guess, because it's going to be too expensive for Wayland to get up and over the hill. Right. And then we know because when we were doing Alta Oxbow, Rivers Edge, we asked Sudbury for their sewer because we're like, oh, we'll just tag onto theirs. They have sewer for that quarter, but it's really trailing down and it just doesn't have the capacity. So Alta's septic, right? So Alta was its own septic and package, but then we got state funding to tie into the town center plant. So they type to the town center plant that cleans it up and then they discharge. So, I mean, is it a given that they can get a septic for however many units that it's someone even knows? Show you the fascinating part. These things would get killed on septic. Exactly. Which is interesting because I thought environmental should be studied first before even zoning or we talk about septic. I mean, it could be a moot point, you know. I'm also concerned about the traffic as well. Oh, that's another one. That's a huge concern. Yeah. Because I take my girls. So then it's going to have to be, it has to be a light there. There's no way in that intersection twice every week between four to five. There's no way you can. No. If you try to leave your house there and take a left going, what route 20 East and like rough shower, like a line all the way to Longfellow, like trying to get out of there. Usually there's an aversion adding lights on route 20. Yeah. An amount of housing that if the state might look differently, I mean, it took them forever to put a light. I mean, it would be annoying, like, it would be annoying, like just, yeah. For like coming down route 20, I would be annoyed to have a light there, but it's like, how are you going to get out if you don't. Robert, a quick question about traffic. How, who, like if they want to do another cut, so it's, it's a pretty like long facade frontage on route 20. Right. So if they want to add another entry point more towards the East and then the current Longfellow would be just the outlet, are you going to do that with easy process to do? Or. They have, are you going to do that with the elevation though? You're going to be like driving, like, I'm not saying they should do it. I'm just saying if a developer chases it, like what is the town? You have to make sure that there's no like restriction on how close the curb cuts are together. Right. So permitted as a road to be a private road, just like it's a private road now. But can you just tag into route 20 directly and saying, okay, I'm going to. The curb cut permit would be even worse though. Yeah. And to like. Make out what's right there. Definitely. So I'm just trying to make sure that everybody would do it. And if state is involved, no developer. Oh yeah. The state, because it's a state road. Yep. Any new curb cut there needs to have it. So there'll be the ones looking at traffic. Yeah. So I will, once I get this information, I can run it up with flatball and see what, what are the, you know, the issues. Is there any concerns? It's the, I guess I can find St. Barbara road of what we're doing and see if there is any, that's, I mean, that's the main concern of the plan board of mine. It's not. It's you're around too much and to drive clients because we try to be fancy. And we were definitely hearing it. That was totally our intent too. Nobody wants to screw up, but I would not, I'm not, I'm not in this, I'm not really not into this, this rendering fear monitoring, like this is what it's going to be like, cause we don't know what it's going to like, and just to try to show these renderings, it's going to scare people. You're going to fear monitor people. It's not, I don't like it. That's not my thing. You need to show something. You've shown nothing. There's been no discipline whatsoever. It's not going to show very hard to visualize this as a layman. If you're just getting up and like, what reading this, it's not my, it's not my. I'm just, I'm not going to, that's not my thing. Well, river's edge, all everything that we've ever proposed, we've shown what it will look like. You at least need to show massing. So people understand it. I mean, it's, they don't understand it's a potential five and a half story building, which is taller than anything that Wayland has, right. They don't understand it. And, you know, even if it's 80 feet back, it doesn't matter. But if you're saying that 30 feet shows that we're scaring them, well, it could be at 80 feet. And it's just, I mean, I actually, I saw it once and it was not, it was not close to the right way that I saw was not close to the right way. I know we saw it too. So we talked to the owner. It's just the purpose of the study anyway. Right. So we're trying to show the reasonable worst case scenario. We're not showing what a developer will build. We're just showing what length, what our language means. Yeah. We're just showing what our language might allow it to be built. And it might be 1% chance that somebody would pick up and build it exactly like that, but even if it is that 1%, I think we have to be fully disclosed to the general public saying, well, this is doable. We can definitely say likely the building will not look like this, but I think we should at minimum say, well, if there is like a very little possibility that it may happen, it may happen. There's a lesser possibility that would happen 30 feet from the beginning, right? It's a very large possibility. It's a five and a half story. Yeah, I agree. That's the, that's reality, right? So, so again, you said, you know, ultimately right now, if, and we're happy to come to the planning board meeting, whatever, like this, we're not lawyers, lawyer it, but this is concept, right, but we could easily with planning board approval, with design review board approval, with EDC approval, with FinCon, with select board, if everybody is in favor of this amendment. I think that it would pass, right? I don't think it's too confusing. I think it's, I tried to keep it one sentence. We'll add numbers, but keeping hearing you, keeping it as simple as possible. But, you know, I will try, I will send it to the state. I can't bet you contact the state, seeing what, and seeing just ask if we added, if we add an asterisk, just like your question before, if we add height and the same footprint, I mean, okay, well, this is an asterisk doesn't disturb the original footprint at all. It just says, if you want to be larger, this is what. You need to do. I can't imagine. And then it's, you know, if it needs to be a question or me, you can ask them, but if we approve this at town meeting and it is not approved by the AG, really like when our, our prior approval, isn't going to be lost. I can't imagine, but ask the question that that's the concern. It's just, you can't, you can't, you can't change it. No, right. It's what the prior would still say. So those are sort of easy questions to ask and make sure that planning board. Concerns are, I will send to the state. I know you, some people might be concerned that I'm not going to send to the state. I will ask the questions. It's fine. Okay. So I will modify and then send you that and I will send to Robin and at the same time, just so we're all working out the same one. Um, and see where it goes. Can I, can I just say something really quickly? Yes. It seems like to me, the planning board's biggest concern was the massive mass, um, laws and everything like that. So Robert, if you can get confirmation. From the state that something like this is not, um, getting rid of the MBTA community's regulations, then it feels like we've kind of made a step forward and address the planning board's concerns.
I don't know. That's it.
All right. Do I hear a motion to approve this zoning language so we can forward it to the planning board? As amended motion to send zoning language to the planning board regarding article OO as amended as amended. All right. Karen motion to hear a second.
Second all in favor. Ali. Yes. Hi, Becky. Hi, David. Hi, Katie. Hi. Great. Approved six. Oh, awesome. Okay. So with that are activating route 20 Whalen center corridor, which they haven't met with Michael yet on, on Monday, but we'll relay, but now we can hopefully get going. So town center, new owners, shared streets. Yeah. That is underway. I actually just got a draft list from Jesse. They're thinking it through trying to get them to put it on a map. So it's easily understandable. So we're honing in on that. They also need to mark up the use agreement with the town. So both of those two things, coordinating with Michael McCall's office to get those to happen sooner rather than later playground amenities at town green. So David, your pet cause and Katie. So hopefully I will find out from Michael McCall. Um, you guys both met with Catherine Brenna, right? We did in the past. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm assuming that that'll be sort of our key contact, but I will let you guys know. And then we can start interfacing with Jesse at, uh, Grafito and their landscape architect, which will be great. So. Okay. I still had not sent Grafito, you know, the, the pitch that we kind of walked through in general. I wanted to make sure we had like full, uh, you know, group approval to do that. If that was okay. Oh, I thought they had gotten up before. No, no, we'd walked them through it just on a call, but never actually sent it to them. Like the, the big one, David, you mean the one that was like many, many pages long. Uh, uh, I think we sent them the overview word document, but there was another one that had like a little bit better detail photos and a couple of revisions that we were working on as a group of some ideas that we incorporated too. So I don't know. Yeah. Is this, this is the second, a good standalone. Yeah. It's a good standalone. It's just a couple. We'll clean like PowerPoint photos. Basically what I can do, Becky is I'll send it to our group again, and then we can just take a, take a look at it and make sure we're okay with passing it over to Grafito as starting input with Catherine Brennan on, on copy. Okay. So yeah, as soon as we have sort of our clear path, I don't know if Michael Faye, I would love to talk with Michael Faye quickly, new facilities guy. He's done playgrounds in the past. What are the maintenance? Like part of that is we're, you know, whether it's, you know, a nonprofit that's managing it or whether the town's managing it, part of it is not only, it's not only the initial install, but it's also the maintenance. So hopefully we'll be, be able to patch these people in. So, yeah. So David, that's great. If you can circulate and then we'll be good to go as a starting point. Well, I think there were two people that we needed to talk with on like overall costs that we, this is where we stalled out a couple of months ago. It was I think DPW. Tom Holder. Yeah. Tom does the install. If I understand it correctly, that's the team. That does the install. And then fail would be doing the maintenance over time or the other way around. I'm forgetting. But we would need input really from both of them for total costs of the project. Yep. So fail would do the install and DPW would, would maintain, but yeah, so we can, that discussion on Monday is actually with, it starts off with Michael McCall and Tom Holder to talk about the curb cut and sidewalks engineering. So while we have them on that, we'll just make sure I'll check with, with Michael that we have the green light. We'll talk with Fayette with Holder and then Catherine Brennan and also environmental. Cause that's, that's a key to get our arms around that for sure. As we're talking about designers. So it's, it's environmental through the health department, I believe. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. So I'll let you know as soon as we have that. The route 20 task force. I last talked with Carol Martin that they're holding for a little bit. Carol spoke with I believe Annette and Robin, or maybe it was just Annette. Um, that you guys are going to put together a conceptual list and then how long it will take to do the zoning. So she wanted that step to happen first. So that's, what's going on in that front. Um, I know that Annette still wants the route 20 planning to stay with the planning board, but typically in every single master plan, it's always multidisciplinary. So, but let's get that first stab and then go from there. Um, route 20 sidewalk curb kind of engineering just mentioned. So again, we needed to get the green light. The green light to be working with Tom Holder. So that's hopefully happening on Monday. Um, and clearly I can't wait for the route 20 task force because it's on hold. So we need to get small working group to start putting together the RFP, which is highly technical. It's mostly Tom and his staff. Um, in the meantime, as that gets put out the bid, choosing engineers, then hopefully we can gear up, um, with whatever this working group is, whether it's part of the route 20 task force or separate to this. So hopefully get that kicked off, um, existing. And then second, we're back to our, our main project with the building department. Um, and then Katie has to sign the contract, so she's getting all the stuff and she's, um, coordinating with them, and then in the second quarter conditions cleanup, this is also same thing, just making sure, uh, and coordinating with Michael McCall's office, who in his office will be our key contact. And then getting the okay to talk with the building department. So Katie, with that again, when I hear, then we'll be able to start strategizing with those guys and figuring out. Um, how best to tackle. Katie, we should probably dig that up. And maybe, you know, now that we're sort of unburied with snow, maybe take a quick checklist and see if these violations still stand or maybe there might be new ones. Sounds good. Yeah. So if you want to do that in the next week or two, and then we can kind of strategize. And, you know, we said we'll do as much or as little. We can write all the letters and just clear them with you guys. Or, you know, we can hand it off to someone. But however they want to do it. So hopefully we'll have guidance from Michael on that one to get that one moving now that it's springtime. The violations would be like things that they have in the... Yeah, sort of signage that wasn't approved, like the plywood sign that's out there or a lot of the temporary signs shouldn't be there. Anything that is building department, it's sort of if a letter comes from the town manager and the building inspector will kind of have a decent heft to it. And definitely the key is writing letters to everybody at the same time. So nobody's singled out. Yeah. Right. Right. We're all doing this together. Kumbaya. Because we might be asking for landscaping cleanup and, you know, things that are not code. Right. But just let's all work together to clean up the corridor. So. Becky, before we get to number eight, can I just circle back to the split tax rate? Yes. I do want to skip over that. Oh, sorry. Yep. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's my philosophy is that's just kind of low hanging fruit. And just looking at the towns near us, there's a mix of dual wins. There's a mix of dual wins in single and single rate towns. But I think if you compare where Wayland is at their single rate to where other towns are at, either at their single rate or their dual rate commercial, I think there's easily three to four dollars per thousand that still keeps us competitive. Yep.
And, you know, I think we calculated it's real money. It's like $160,000 for every. Yeah. For every dollar. Yeah. So, I mean, if we have a three to four dollar swing, so Sudbury is is a split rate, a dual $21 and 54 cents for commercial. So we're at 1563 at a single rate. So even if we boost that three to three to four dollars, we're in the high 18s to high 19s.
Framingham's a dual rate. That's $23 and 97 cents for commercial. We're still well beyond. Well, below that, Waltham, $22 and 18 cents. Newton, 1806. Marlborough, 1843. Acton, 1715. So we're still very competitive, even with like another three to four dollars. So I don't. So a lot of those are like, you know, Waltham and Framingham. So the dual, yes, the dual ones. But the point is, whether they're single or dual, that's what people are paying for commercial. Right. So, you know, like Lincoln's very small. They have a dual and they're 1878 for commercial. Yeah, I think some of the smaller towns, I think that would be the most helpful, like the most relevant because people aren't deciding whether to be in Framingham or Wayland. Right. Right. They're they're considering between Wayland and Acton or Wayland and Lincoln or whatever. So I think those numbers will be the most compelling. Do you have like a chart or can you pull together a chart or have. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it's. It's just, you know, generally in the area, what's what's a competitive rate for a commercial business to be there? And I don't think you're driving anyone out of the town by going to, you know, three to four dollars a thousand higher, you know, and that that seems like I don't know what's the process for getting that approved. You said that's not even town meeting. It's just. I think we're split tax rate. This probably has got to be town meeting. It feels like. A lot of taxation. I don't know. But somebody said it was it was select board. It didn't go to that last meeting. We were debating and we kind of we were leading towards. But, Robert, what did you say? Oh, to set up the assessors. Assessors. Board of assessors. Yeah, but they need approval from someone, don't they? Or no, just. It might be. It might be a slap. Why is there a assessing committee? Is that what I said? Yeah. They would make a recommendation. It might be. But it might be. It might be. Go to the software and then get. Because if you don't need town meeting, you know, I'm not a big taxation person. But like this still puts us in a very competitive rate. And I think there's enough commercial. Even if there's not enough commercial. I mean, look at Lincoln. Like, how do they have a dual rate? I have no idea. But I think just where we're at, even in commercial, it's it's just I don't want to say it's free dollars sitting there for the taking. But we're not taxing anyone out of the town. And I mean. Why don't you reach out to the chair of the board? Or assessors? Yeah. Okay. Just email them. I don't know who that is. I don't want to see like what the process would be. Or it's going to just say, you know, if we were considering this, what's the process? And and also get their feedback. It's curious what they're I'm sure they've contemplated in the past. I know the select board has. It may have been so long ago before it was always the discussion of, well, we're at, you know, are we going to go to like a twenty five rate like framing it like that when the select board shot down because we were having trouble keeping people here, but I think sort of that moderate, I don't know if they consider it to be interesting to find out from them because they would be the one. I mean, for this town, like this is the chair, staff interest. Yeah. Just go on that. Yeah. I mean, for this town, three, three, four hundred thousand dollars is like a big deal, right? Yeah. Year after year. Yeah. An extra three, four or five million dollars over ten years. That makes it makes a difference. Yeah, it's different. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, Jeff, you're going to reach out to the chair of the. Tax. Assessor.
And you can even just walk over to the assessor's office and talk to the assessor. They might be able to do that as well. But yeah, it'd be good to reach out to the board of assessors because that's because they must be the ones who said, you know, it must be the ones who said it. The assessor just follows their.
I'm wondering if it's worth reaching out to FinCom too, because I remember in that first original meeting we had with them, they were like, we're open to any ideas you guys have about raising revenue in town. So I don't know. I think that's great. And I think that's great. It's like, hey, you're going to have to take over from the assessor. So I think you're going to have to take over from the assessor if that's if it's worthwhile or better to wait until after you talk to the assessors. Okay. Play the playground. Pay to play. Put a coin in. It's like, just like Chuck E. Cheese. You know. Just filled just. It's just open arcade. Forget about the playground. No. Why not? All right. So we'll keep that moving along. Katie, I think you comment about the FinCom. So I think as we go into the next session, I think we're talking about, you know, like, you guys have quite a lot of questions. It's an arcade. Forget about the playground. Why not? All right. So we'll keep that moving along. Katie, I think you've commented about the FinCon. So I think as we, I think we'll be talking with them more as soon as we get the numbers from Brian Keveny. I think we just sort of work it on our conversations as we go. We can kind of keep adding it to our presentation. Especially if they're in a little bit of chaos right now. Yeah. They're, yeah, they're, they're really busy. So, and with everything kind of shifting around, I actually saw Pam Roman at the vet's office yesterday. She was saying there's a lot of turnover. So it sounds like they're really in flux at this point. So, but yeah, we absolutely will keep them, them in the loop. Okay. And then lastly, as we hope to end on time, right on time. So infographic, I split number six, thinking of the next one, number five, we still needed data from Brendan, the GIS guy, who that's part of the conversation on Monday with Michael and giving me information. But also there, is we were trying to get it pushed out because of discussions of Orchard Lane and, you know, eventually with this article, et cetera, we've kind of lost that window. And there is a public forum for the Orchard Lane parcel on Monday with the select board. I think it's their reading of the warrant articles and then they're flowing into that public forum. I forget who decided to do that. That's not what I would have done. I would have done that. I request for an information, put it out there. We have a tenant of the property. Come back. What do you think you could do on condos, townhouses, cottages, and to see what the, what the market will, will buy? Like what, what would people actually build? Yeah, that's, that's, that is what I would have done. I said put on this month something that has money to do in engineering, use that money, save it, and then figure out what we would build. And you don't, you don't take anything. You get back to three options. And then you're like, eh, I really don't want to see single parent houses. And it's like, that's not what it was. Yeah. You want to see, or someone come back and say, I'll do one big part of building. And you come back like, yeah, that's not what I want to see. But the word is request for information, not for approval. So this $200,000, which is a high number, frankly, but it, which is also, they should have asked for like 50 grand. Like this should just be an overall study because part of it is not just, should it be housing? Should it be school? Should it be some playground? Should it be like whatever? But ultimately, so this public forum, is literally just with local residents have been upset that they haven't been asked, like it just sort of came out of left field. And so, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be a little dicey. So we'll see what comes out of that. But I think after that, before we head into town meeting, I think that's sort of a good time to introduce some of the information. Um, so then, and then we'll hopefully we'll have the GIS and we can have this with that basic reference. And we see how, I mean, frankly, I met also said the GIS is not updated, but. We see how important it is to have the up-to-date information about that subdivision. It costs money. So I think the state, what is it like every four years or two years, the state asks us to update our parcel information. And I think the last time it was done is 2024. So Wayland is due for this year, 2026. That's why, like when I look at the data and mass GIS, I don't own my property, the previous owner owns. So that's also the reason. I was asking for the latest one. So if we ever do a land use map, I mean, probably nothing changed in the last two years, but still land use information is land use information. You would want to be stuck with the most current. Right. So, um, I think typically they publish around this time. I went back and look at when the Wayland last published that it was, I think April or may. So. We might have an updated layer for mass GIS very shortly, but only one, that's only land use. So theoretically, if we can get, a few others that wouldn't hurt them is mass GIS. We have to use and we'll use this coming by. So mass GIS, I don't know if he answered me. I don't know. We were mass GIS. It doesn't have the information. Some, but not old. I mean, what we wanted is I think Robert, you might be familiar with that map as well. The town made a land use map, like a literal land use map from vector layers. And I think back in the last master plan, they have like percentages of land used for things. Right. So our problem is when we want to create it from a mass GS layer, like my property, for example, like maybe 5% of my property is also protected wetlands. But if I get the summary from the land use files, the wetland is not going to show up. It's going to show up as single family, but that's the margin we're missing. We're missing things like what happens when multiple things, not land uses, but a land use, and then a protected land, or wetland or woodland is actually inside the properties. I mean, we could very well find that number, but again, it won't be the best number to literally asking all the different layers to be turned on, which the chart that we're realizing, the chart that Brian Kevney was using of wetlands and conservation land in this, it was not, these are not additive, right? Yeah. The wetlands will overlap some of the conservation and stuff will overlap the rest. We want that to be break, broke down. We want that to be broke down into a single category so we can literally see, and we're okay. If we don't have the data, they can, yeah, yeah. They can do it for us as long as they give us like a table, right? That's before, for the access to the GIS, like, no, we can't do that because we have one license and you might screw it up. I don't know. We're like, fine. We're just, I've been trying to get my stuff on the handle. That's up. Yeah. So now we're just having to give you a license. Well, and I've been trying to get one.
I mean, we should advocate for this at some point. I mean, I plan, I'm planning department without it's like super low on the top all things, which is like, what does it cost? It is expensive. It's expensive. I would assume nothing less than 10 grand a year. Oh yeah. Well, I mean, you're very familiar with the second system. One company, of course,
unless you use an open box, like, it's not standard. Yeah. I've used QGIS. You're not going to be able to share anything with anyone. It's not going to be an issue just to learn how to use QGIS. Right. I know how to use like open open toolbox and differently for hobbyists, but it will kill. They won't do the job for you. I mean, but I'll I'll learn how much does it cost? Yeah. It'd be interesting to know. I call it like 30,000, but I'm not sure that's accurate. It might be with all the enterprise and the media of it. If the town has it, all the stuff that we do, now that the license comes with Joe portals, web 3d and all that, we could have put the, the mass things directly into a context map and just put it into a website. Everybody could go in and say, we love it. We didn't like it and all that. I mean, it might add a little more transparency, which, you know, we will probably appreciate it might create more problems for all of us, but it, it, yeah, it might be something to do that. I'll, I'll check. All right. So infographic number six, thinking ahead, what we want to do for our next one, next one, before we were thinking that it would sort of a con, uh, continue a continuation meeting. Yes. Yes. Friday, um, of the FinCon discussion, but that hasn't really advanced. So the question is, you know, what do we want to do for our next infographic necessarily? I think we had talked about, um,
so the one we haven't, we don't have final final on the current one, number five. Is that correct? Right. But we should, we need to drop in that. Okay. And this one needy has this one, right? Correct. Okay. She's not here. So I'll follow up with her. Okay. Um, so it was the, I think that we had talked about Katie, correct me if I'm wrong here. This was understanding when it's commercial tax base. And then I think the email is very red. Like we're explaining, all the sides of the pie. Yep. And I think we had talked about doing a residential one next to like the value of the town home side of like translates the email into a visual, um, Katie, am I right about that? Is this all coming back? Um, I think so. It feels like it was a while. I know it feels debating what you go here, what you go there. So I think that that should be the next one. Okay.
Cause beyond that, I don't think there's anything that's necessarily this big, this or relevant to town meeting or yeah. Okay. We can eventually do one that has, um, if there's a little bit more activity in the town center, a plot of everything new that's opened. Well, hopefully they're doing it. I keep waiting for this kind of overall presentation on social media. Sure. Are they, are they meeting with the planning board officially?
In, in May okay. Cause there was some discussion about them meeting just preliminarily with the select board and then having like a joint select board planning, working just to understand everything. And you know, a really robust presentation that could be open to the public, but a lot of the people in public would love to love to hear all that. So, so that might happen. The short one may happen the end of April. And then ultimately with may, new committee members everybody else then that would happen on that early day so all right so with this next infographic you and katie want to work on it needy's not here you guys are kind of closer to it i could help you we want to who wants to katie do you have bandwidth to kind of think through the next infographic i'm sure i'm happy to work on it with needy kind of like start to put our arms around what type of information we would want to include i can talk with her about it yeah katie i would make life easy on yourself and just try and um the email that is going to get sent out at some point soon has a lot of this information in it about residential so i think mostly it'll be just kind of translating that to a visual visual do you mind sending that to me i don't think i've seen it okay yeah so that's that's the draft email that went with infographic five so we're waiting for approval yeah yeah yes so so i'll send that to you katie i'll circulate around the final because we approved it last time with little tweaks just waiting for that wetlands usable land metric um and then we can get that out so but i'll send that i'll circulate that around so then katie you'll have it terrific um wayland business ocean version 2.0 yes you're gonna reach out to jesse but i did oh you did okay yeah he came up with you um he's saying he was like pam from slot that therapy comes to mind jackie from jakara pediatric dental volleyball makes sense he's like i'll think more but he's happy to be involved we are a small business after all he says yeah there you go yeah so he's he's happy to be involved there and then i did mention there was a new tenant down in south wayland on west plane the new owner of the accounts building oh yeah yeah to get involved too so yep so stone is a change of sign so what seven popular sign here i don't have to see no no it's like this is why we put people assignments he's while chasing him down or chasing down until you get tired there's this one property owner in town chased down it a million times and after a while his talents got tired of chasing him just just send him the application but here's the link for the application can you please fill it out for your temporary and then because he said he wanted to do a new one so we also moved it from the new one just kind of move them along um all right and then the post permitting building department survey i had commented to needy you guys haven't yet if you can do that uh did you we're seeing it again i'll recirculate it just so people have it at the top of their inbox um so again when i was looking at it it was um it's kind of breaking it out a little bit more detail between building department and permits and approvals which sometimes the wheels will fall off on one and not another so i kind of added that but the concern is that it gets too long so i kind of gave it to needy like collect everything and then we can kind of condense from there but um are you done on that topic yes all right so we have to complete the massachusetts conflict of interest law thing every year two years i thought it was two but then this says state requires including to complete two education courses as follows please complete you know were you just emailed us yes when you log in who's going to send you a copy current calendar year now i haven't logged in you wait i saw somewhere in here that says did you do it before i did do it before i did it a year ago and i'm like i just i just talked about thank you does anyone else get it no but i did mine you're new i did my own yeah like only a few months ago did you get any email did you do your phone post recurrence this is what it says recurrence every year that was every two i think it was i think it was i think it was a smaller thing i think it's got five minutes like we have to make sure you just start to start to talk about this i still have to do my it's approximately 10 minutes yeah yeah it's not the whole hour yeah i was avoiding this i'm like i did my duty yeah we did all right so next meeting is which should be may 8th or we can get oh no may 8th i'm out of town how about the 15th that's the other wrinkle i'm out of town during town oh okay but you can also meet without um or you guys can meet on the 8th say that again you guys can meet on the 8th how about the 14th when are you what's like when is town meeting town meeting is the fourth fourth fourth and fifth i feel like we want you to be at the first meeting after town okay so if you can't do the 15th what works that following week so the following friday yeah this is is the friday of memorial day weekend is one in second right oh one more day you want to do that no no but the week of the d11 what has been the week of the 11th all week no no i just have something all day friday that i can't move um but i could do thursday morning let's do thursday i can't do the thursday i'm teaching teach thursday okay okay i could do wednesday the 13th for me
jeff david katie can you guys do wednesday the 13th um can we what about tuesday the 12th possibility or no i'm not saying no on the 13th i can do the 12th i can do 12 as well all right can we do the 12th david katie the 12th i can do the 12th david i'm gonna be a little tentative on that one just because of earlier in the week but yeah i will try to plan ahead okay is tuesday any worse than any other day sounds like you've got a lot of a lot of fun overseas on your plate yeah most days are just kind of uh fun all right all right so we'll go for tuesday the 12th and uh we will set it up from there same time same time 8 30 5 a.m 5 a.m you know she got that in front of like whoa that's a little early oh my gosh all right anything else before we adjourn hearing nothing do i hear a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn motion do i hear a second second second all in favor ali yes yeah hi hi becky i david i heard an eye and then katie hi all right we are adjourned at 10 0 2