August 12, 2026 – Historic District Commission – Video & Transcript
August 12, 2026 - Historic District Commission
thank you everybody for attending online um we at the historic district commission do not have
a quorum we have three people here uh myself marjorie and gretchen uh we need a minimum of
four even though there's eight people on our committee uh it's summertime it's hard to get
people together so um i apologize for that what we will do is we will move forward and hear from
kristin kirsten thank you um about what you're proposing uh we're going to take notes we're going
to then contact the whaling council about options about how this could get approved without another
great um we each have three sets right um kirsten four
that's nice so you've got the um the narrative and then we have exhibit a is the actual specs of the windows and then this is um exhibit b is the letter from okay yeah we've got b and c right here so the letter from our specialist and then the individual window um assessment then we've also got d here the current versus proposed share that sure uh gretchen and i can share okay
yep and then i believe this is actually another page of the sections um where you have them on your computers yes so then maybe you can uh share with the i can share public so the public knows yeah where we are yeah you might have one of the one too okay so
feel free to come and get
papers i'm gonna um are you able to okay great um well thank you guys so this um i'm joined online by members from our architectural firm jta as well as us from our general contractors, the Vantage team, so they can jump in if there are any questions that I can't answer. I don't see any participants. Are you able to let them in? They're already in.
Yeah, guys, we're here. How are you?
We have Anthony and Jay from Vantage. Good evening, all. And then we have Neil and Travis from the architecture group. So you know what I'm going to do? Just for the minutes, just for nothing else. Anthony is a new name to me. Yes, since our meeting in March, we've had some new people join up the construction side. And Anthony? And Jay Pizer? Yes, Jay Pizer. I think you've met on site, Marjorie. Yes, yes. So P-E-Y, P-E-Y. Marjorie, I have all the names screenshotted. Can you give them to me afterwards? Yeah, because I'm not getting them. Yeah. Do you want help on this? Hmm? Do you want help on this? I'm going to get the minutes. I'm going to get names from him. How do I get the spelling? Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. Okay. Go for it. Okay. So I will give just a quick overview on the narrative, and then we can dive into the exhibits, which have all the goodies, the details. So as you know, as we've discussed, obviously our approach to this whole project is to honor the building's history, try to breathe new life into it and extend it as much as possible. So as we learn, we're going to have a lot of fun. We learned, as you alerted us, that the windows needed separate review and approval. So that is how we are here today. So since our last conversation, we did a thorough evaluation of the current windows, both ourselves, as well as we've included it, the principal and managing director of head of U.S. Projects and Construction Management at Abus & Young. Okay. Okay. So looking at those windows, they are approximately 37 to 40 years old now. He, the inspector, I'll call him Patrick, he advised that, well, said, you know, typical life is 40 to 50. He believes these have met their useful life expectancy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, you know, traditionally, not only that 40 to 50 years, but the last five-plus years under the previous owner had significant lack of maintenance, so that kind of expedited. While they do visually appear to be in proper, you know, workable order, upon closer inspection, which this is the colorful red, white, and blue, you can see the front four had to go because they had asbestos in them, which was also something that we had to do. Okay. Which was also something we learned after the March meeting. Okay. And those, it was in the glue that attached to the glass. Mm-hmm. But we couldn't salvage any of those. Okay. Because those, I think, were older than the 1980s because they had just put glass around it. Okay. And that was how they had dealt with it last time. Okay. Out of the other remaining 18, there were two that, one wouldn't even open. The second would open but would fall right down. Okay. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it was the one, would NOT open and stood still for the rest of the event. And then the two others. Some were slower than others and had quite a, especially along the left side, second floor towards the room. Okay. 20 had significant open um i have videos uploaded to the link in here uh so you can watch me like you can hear okay we noted that the one we opened personally is labeled green yes right i know that was the other the other thing that is the the troublesome side was the south side of the building and of course we opened the window on the north side yeah yeah yeah yeah the the south side gets more is more exposed to the sun yeah sun as well um okay so that kind of summarizes the um existing window condition um so i guess the transitioning take that yourself tuck it somewhere thank you yeah um it transitioning to our recommendation thank you
yes go ahead um so kind of transitioning from the existing conditions uh taken that even before we had the experts opinion just the typical life expectancy for these windows it was going to be very close to the end and the wide variety of operation capabilities are indicative of you know reaching that one end of its life expectancy and they're not really the kind of things that you can repair it's more in the mechanics here here and there um additionally because we're doing the gut renovation on the inside um this is a time that it can be replaced from the interior to preserve the existing casings millwork um as i mentioned when we met on site we are preserving all of the shutters and repainting them so all of the exterior bits is there and being able to do the work from the inside allows us greater likelihood that we can preserve the exterior historical pieces um okay so then uh looking um and looking into thank you marjorie for those sheets highlighting the window um standards that you gave me in person so the the guidelines for evaluating the replacement um we spoke with the professional um who's experienced we documented and um then we have i guess we can turn to our proposed so you can that's probably the the the meat of the conversation and also like that the um energy efficiency from when the windows were put in the 90s this is obviously vastly different than energy code today yes would be much more modernized right and um we did explore the option that you had mentioned about putting in the permanent storm windows on the inside but given the the restaurant aesthetic and you know wanting to open them sometimes if we can more more fresh air during the shoulder seasons um we would much rather replace them um for the the overall aesthetic interior and exterior um okay so the windows that we are proposing um are pella um they don't um our goal and what we believe is the case is that they won't alter the appearance appearance of the building um especially the historic nature so it's mentioned the same openings dimensions um double hung which is it it is currently um existing paint configurations so the front part of the building has uh 12 over 12 in the back 8 over 12 or 12 over 8 or it's a difference but we have we're keeping all of those yeah um and again the overall white historic multi-paint appearance so for the the front facade and the first floor windows our proposal is uh simulated divided lights um so the sdl permanently applied uh contoured grills on the exterior and interior of this glass um and since those are the ones most likely to be viewed at close range uh they are also um seven eighths of an inch which matches what it is currently um so we have this page here has a close-up of the um
current and the proposed muttons um and then the second part of this is i i previewed with you at the meeting is proposing the um three-quarter inch contoured grills between glass for the second floor sides front face of the sdl but um according to several of the historic windows um including the national park service uh for secondary elevation it is um it is plausible to do that since it's a further distance um so we have uh we have the sample here that we can show you um because you have to use a little bit of your imagination because it's a different color different paints but you can see the contour of and this is grilled between the gbg um not the applied and it's my understanding of your second story um this would be for second story and then for the first story this would be in the middle and then the permanently applied on the outside so there is something to kind of simulate well there has to be something to separate the two pieces of glass yes okay right but they're not they're not mountains that go through correct right okay um also in doing um a review and this is where the printer jammed so it's um in there there you go yeah those are just additional angles of the current window but in looking at some of the neighboring properties um comery uh real estate right next door their front facade is what we're proposing for our front vinyl with the sdl um applied silk vet and whalen pediatrics right down the corner are actually um gbg on all the front facing and um side public facing first floor buildings uh first floor windows you're not in a historic district but that's all right silk is not ah silk is not right but the other uh the next door yeah um even if not technically in the historic district the general aesthetic of the area it wouldn't be uncommon because they do have some of um their other windows um are look look older i don't know what um they were on the second floor so i couldn't see um but yes that was so comery would be the most important you can see um looking at it you do get that depth yeah um and exactly i tried to take it from different uh distances so so you could see um and yeah so this would uh this one would be the interior but it's white so you can see it and then this the exterior but again since we are having the um black not white but uh since we'll be having the original casings all around it you can see it's a small modest piece and then bring it close so you guys can see
um the contoured shape and you can see from that um uh cross section there it is very similar to what is currently there in terms again it would be three-dimensional um applied to the exterior of glass exterior and interior i know you guys are more concerned with exterior but just to maintain that historical right we don't have any jurisdiction over the interiors yeah um although it's a public space so maybe we don't need to go there yeah yes um and then also i did a note on here at this awning window yeah don't don't worry that is a new one for the rear right yeah okay so um the they're wood but vinyl coated the mutton um yeah so you can say they're vinyl see they are final um and so i think i think that's a good one uh yeah okay so just so that i know that i'd heard that um um that's just my guess uh he's gonna be my third question to uh this is a question
you're talking about the three-quarter contour that we're looking at yes the simulated um divided light in between the glass those are the fiberglass or That's for the ones that are separating. Correct. That's for the second story. There's an image of it right there. Okay, but what about the first story and the main facade, the front of the building? The mountains are applied to the exterior. Correct. And what are they made of? The same material. It's a maintenance-free construction, as you see in the sample window that you have. So it's some sort of a composite, fiberglass. Okay, right. It looks like this picture right here.
Right. So the composite does not need to be painted? It is at the factory, but then in terms of maintenance, it does not need to be painted. Okay, very good. Okay. And you can see the cross-section. The additional insulation for that little green piece, yeah, for the energy efficiency. Again, that's kind of an added bonus. You look serious. And we are doing a full, I can show you afterwards all the interior pictures, doing a whole new HVAC system as well. Wow. Also adding an ADA, a platform lift. And we're going to be using it for ADA access to the second floor. On the back. Yes, inside one of the new ADA doors, right inside. Just hang on one second. We have one person who was asleep. She just flew in from Southam. Yes. And she just, where can she find the link? I see her. Pardon? She's attending. Seema? Yeah, I see her, yeah. Great. So she's going to get her in. We have a quorum. Okay, so she would be in and be able to talk. Please. Yes. Greg, I did not send the packet directly to her, but I don't know. Well, she's in, she's sitting in. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. So let's do some sort of a quick, first of all, Seema, thank you so much. You're a gem. Sorry about the delay in joining. That's okay. Well, you're here. Yeah. Yeah, I can see the information on the screen. So please don't worry about that. Yeah. Thank you so much. You are the quorum, because we couldn't, we were just going to have this lovely conversation and then try and figure out what we could do and talk to council, but now we don't have to. Now we can have a real meeting. So this is a formal public meeting. The meeting is now open. Yes. Great. And do you want to quickly bring her up to date on what we've talked about? Sure. Okay. Seema, we've been talking. We've been talking about the townhouse cafe. Okay. 21. Remember, we talked about this earlier in the year. And the reason we're talking about it today is the windows are being replaced. And that was not on the agenda at our earlier meeting. And so today, Kirsten and her architectural team are presenting the windows that are being replaced, which is all of them, but more importantly, why. And what they're being replaced with, which is an architecturally equivalent looking Pella, better insulation, obviously. And just when you joined, we were talking about details of what do the mugs look like. Yep. And there's a difference in the way mugs look like on the second floor versus the first floor. That is our recommended proposal. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of where we are. Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So the first story will be mountains between the two panes of glass. Okay. The first story and all the windows on the facade facing the road will be exterior mountains applied through glass, and the same on the interior, a separation of the glass. So to give the insulation, but yet to give the effect of true division. it muntins got it okay please continue i got it thank you and they are of a similar um depth that was the one thing that we were really yeah the depth and the width of the muntins are what seven eights yeah yeah um their color to it too that's kind of the same yes white yes yes they'll be baked on finish at the factory for the muntins and they're keeping they're doing it all from the interior so the frames that are there the casings will be the same yeah will be retained okay so it's just the sash yeah the the shutters are also retained um and then on the the second floor where the mutton is um grilled between the glass uh that has a contoured shape to it so it's not flat so from um from a distance uh looks more aesthetically uh similar to the first floor okay thank you okay i guess the one other uh just like for the general context the immediate next door commercial building um that is also in the historic district has on the front on their front facade this is comrie real estate uh they have um the vinyl windows with the muntins exteriorly applied i couldn't tell on the inside but um similar to what we're proposing for our front facade and first floor and then um though not in the exact historic district but um in the same vicinity around the corner silk and whalen pediatrics have um the grill between the glass on the first floor vinyl windows uh they do also appear to have the contoured mutton inside um you know it's they're not necessarily the same material as the original mahogany on the front facade but it's they're not necessarily the same material so that's the first side it's also kind of a contrast to the one the other side that's the civilian uh the official um the second floor um the second floor what you're trying to do is play into a two-storey™ layout that's a two-storey in aerek one-story uh-and-a-half-story out reduce the size of the interior so that's the presentation yeah i have a question yes so the um i understood perfectly well why the second floor would not have the exterior mugs decoratively applied um why wouldn't you put them up there anyways if they're on the first floor is it is are they substantially more money yes it's um i think about a twelve to fifty millimeters of materials? $15,000 savings to not.
Just kind of the winners, roughly a thousand, a window to put that thing on there. It's just a big H shape thing.
Maybe we can all take up a collection and make it one each.
But other than that, they're identical windows. Yes. Yeah, that is the only difference. And you can see on the spec sheet at the bottom, it's just the grills where they specify which one is which. And then on their diagrams of them, they've circled in red the ones that will have the exterior. Though these are just the actual windows, they're not put in, but they do correspond to the first floor sides in front. So it's not like this drawing.
Could you throw in like a, could you put in like a, not a real, like I know I'm probably a bad word to say fake muttons, but could you do that instead of real ones on the upstairs? They could, but it would be, that's the, what the. That's also 12,000. Okay, got it. That's the additional cost. Cause they're all. Oh, okay. The real ones with 12,000. Yeah. Okay. None of them is real. So it's just like a double glazed. Long or double screened. Yeah. But they're not really like the real one that they use. They have the ones that go out in the front. They have the ones that go through the way. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So they're all applied. It's double glazed. I mean, double, what do you call it? Two, two sheets of glass. Yeah. Separated by something. And then the mountains are applied on the interior. And the exterior. And so. exactly well they're decorative yeah they used to be essential to hold the panes in place right say the interior and exterior on the first floor yes so the second floor has no one in the interior no on the interior as we've been talking about just the ones that are in in the glass all the sides up on the screen so if i was to count uh on the side view the first floor windows with interior and exterior architecturally applied to muttons and the x uh exteriors the dots one two three four five oops there's ten plus four right front well i was going to the front last oh yeah so the four on the front will all have problems upstairs and nested they will have them on up they will have the mountains on upstairs and downstairs since it's the prominent facade right there okay and especially with the porch they can get very close and then while we're not having the balcony right now be operable our hope is eventually to do that so yeah
as my team has been painfully aware as i've made them uh i didn't ensure that on the front of the building we have exterior mines everywhere yes yes up and down up and down and all the uh first floor every first floor sides but not the second floor right yeah yeah it's our proposal right yes right thank you yeah yep so this uh exterior material is fiberglass um vinyl synthetic fiberglass some composite yeah do they make it in wood
uh does it look like wood it seems to me some question yeah does look like what i'm sure yeah i i don't know if there are other lines that are wood instead of vinyl within the same one um it is about a 30 percent cost increase so again just trying to balance yeah um making sure that we maintain but also have money to do the other components of it um uh so i we have not asked the question if they can just do wood buttons i will say that is probably the part that i think is hardest to tell a difference between like looking at comrys which had the external muttons um and even ours like they they look very similar especially and that was even close me taking the picture people from far away um i don't think you can tell the difference i think the other wonderful thing about not going with wood the uh maintenance yeah i mean just in a short time yeah it can look bad if it's not maintained yeah i was doing a little bit of work on the wood but i think they're all the same i bit of a deep dive in that every three to five years especially since it would be a place of business you want to do that the sanding on a painting and yeah all that quick question but the color can be the color the white that you want because it can be several variations of white so this will be the white you want it can be painted to the color you want or um i believe so and camille and or travis that might be a good um spot for you to to chime in you are color experts um yeah i would say in terms of color we're probably we want to go with the the white that is the pillow white um we i don't believe this line is going to be something that we can paint um necessarily um but the white should be fairly similar to what we have existing um especially with the casings and everything i'm saying as they are um i don't think that we'll really notice a difference okay thank you and the green shutters um um we're matching yeah right yeah it's kind of a deep green almost a black green yeah we're trying to match um and camille can maybe even tell me we are if we are our sign out front is that yes yeah yes we are matching oh great thank you what uh i'm next door and i just had some shutters painted and my craftsman who did the painting he he did it himself he couldn't find a deep green dark it's almost a black green so the green is dark you think that's okay yeah anyway i i just a recommendation assuming we all approve this and we go forward is that the building not be painted until you see the mountains because once you have those that's it that's your color and if there is a difference and if is it camilla or camille yeah camille yeah if you if you look at it and you say i do see a difference i think you need to change the building white yeah to match the mutton yep exactly um especially the color of the mountains yeah yeah and so once they're because they'll they'll drive it i mean you don't get to choose on that i gathered from what you just what camille just said yeah it's going to remain the same yeah and i will say when we um visited the historical museum and looked at the old paint chips yes it has been a variety of shades of of white oh the building yes oh yes yeah yeah yes no no doubt about that still then what is such a jog being laid around all this time and i think it would be hard for anybody to say oh that wasn't the white that sometimes has been you know once we get the algae off it's different shade but i i don't know whether that's going to hold you up a lot because i don't know how long it takes for the windows to be done and delivered but I would imagine I think that's really important for you to Camille and Jay slash Anthony please chime in if I'm speaking incorrectly but I would imagine they could give us a PMS color and we could match that sure I'm happy to chime in so we do need to paint the building in a primer coat due to the de-letting process and all the paint that has come off so I don't want to shock anyone with if they see the building being painted in the next few weeks the windows you know the windows go in from the interior they're considered they're actually one of the last things to go in and then the trim so we are we can definitely you you perform the exterior paint after the windows are installed that's no problem just and we can match it with the absolute number of Pantone colors that are available we can have it custom mashed you guys can inspect not a problem just please don't be shocked if you see us painting the building just to preserve the wood okay no that's that is uh absolutely known yes I'm not even suggesting that we have to come and examine it or that you have to wait until all the windows are installed just you have to get some of those buttons and you know get a full window if you can so you can really see it up against the paint color and then you know the color people are in charge that's right yes yeah good good color yeah to figure out whether it's a match the same or not yep okay are there any other questions from our committee no just a comment Kirsten fantastic yeah you do your homework yeah very much so yeah it's it's very appreciated very impressive if Desmond were here he'd be a cheering he's our architect yes that's amazing is there anybody from the public that's joined that would like to comment or have any questions we're coming raise your hand if you do saying none do I have a motion to close the public hearing are you okay but Seema go ahead I was just gonna say yeah I have motion to close oh okay public hearing okay second okay all those in favor say aye aye aye okay Greg aye Gretchen aye Marjorie aye right okay is that the motion to close no that's to close the public hearing all right we're getting there no more information right now we deliver it okay well I mean I think that we approve this and we just make sure that the um that the uh approval says that the final building will match the muttons since the muttons are it's a predetermined white that Pella does absolutely and that just that has to be the driving force here for sure thank you and um and I think we as a commission have concluded they will look the same because of the seven eighths inch wide external months on the first floor and the whole front and um the side second floor it's too invisible to see yes I mean because we know now we'll know but we won't but but from a design standpoint there is the seven eighths inch structure on the inside yes yes yes on the on the first floor yes and I appreciate the installation benefits and I also like your idea with the aesthetic that you can open them and live there yes it's important yeah yeah
I really thank you for all this this is this is amazing of detail this is really a tremendous great I mean it just but it also gives us something to hang our hat on because we can't just say oh sure you know he's done a good job right so I think it's really good so was that a formal enough motion I move that we accept the um proposal uh to replace the windows as presented um with the only condition that the building white match the mountain right yep and how part of the frames will be showing too I mean part of the sash the the whole sash will be showing and they'll all be white okay yeah so yeah it's that it's right okay thank you I'm sorry I wasn't supposed to deliberate like that but anyway yeah that's all right it was clear yeah you want me to say it again oh you're voting yeah okay right great yes Marjorie yes Gretchen yes Seema Seema yes okay great here you go thank you very much oh thank you yes that's excellent wow
MMO team is there through the end of the week so it also simplifies yes now getting that right I guess a follow-up question is do you is their need for us to salvage them for other buildings no are we were thinking about you salvaging them and say you could get a little money
um it's so many of them all roughly the same size or is there market to sell me um I don't know I just when I was looking at the possible options, it was to take it from other historic buildings. But since these are, I don't know what building would want. Want them, right? Yeah, I know. Well, I think it would be go to a salvage yard. And I know there's one in Roxbury, and there are a couple around. The people across the street from you on the corner of them that are building the barn. Oh, yeah. The three owners ago, they replaced their windows and their front door with salvage.
And I guess since these are only from the 80s. Do you think she might want some for her garage side window? We talked about windows.
I don't know. We could ask her. Yeah, I can shoot Mary. She's on the train. Yeah, I'll shoot Mary. You can marry her. Yeah, and ask them. Because the garage would be the one area. I don't know if there's living, or not living space, but like, yeah. Heated climate-controlled space, but if not, that could be in the area. There isn't. There isn't. No, it's not supposed to be. I'll let her know. Yeah, right. Yeah. So we'll leave that with you. That'd be great. So we, at this meeting, we have other topics to cover. So the people online are free to hang up, except for Seema. Right.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jerry. Thank you, Seema, for joining. Absolutely. Absolutely. Welcome back. Yeah, my apologies. I just traveled back from South. Africa last night, late last night. So it's midnight or 3 AM in the morning in South Johannesburg right now. So you're allowed, you're allowed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you texted me though, Gretchen. That was the best because if you hadn't, um, I probably wasn't emails. So, well, I figured that if I, I texted you and, you know, if you were still in flight or whatever, you wouldn't answer, so I was not. Yeah, I, I, I made it back late last night, but, um, it's just that, um, it, it just threw everything off by so many hours. So it does just the delays in Amsterdam just didn't make it. Yeah. Who knows? Easier. Uh, okay. Are you guys on Instagram at all? No, no, no. Maybe some of the younger people. Yes. Do you follow townhouse cafe? Yeah. I've been posting a lot of the behind the scene pictures and, um, what is it? Sorry. Townhouse cafe. You said, sorry. Townhouse cafe Bistro. Yeah. I'm on Instagram. Okay. And I don't want to distract you, but just some quick, a quick flip through of the interior opening day. Yes. Hopefully it's already done. Um, no, no, no, no.
You're still on. These are the renders look. Um, it's so yeah, it's the architectural renders with our actual furniture and lighting overlaid. It is just amazing. Wow. No work. So that is on Instagram. Yes. I've, I've put a lot of these on. Man. I might have to join the, um, pastry kitchen books to fill with the books. Oh, wow. What a, could you see any of that? Um, no, she'll go to Instagram. Yeah. I'm trying to get there right now. So sorry. Oh, okay. That's that correctly. So it's a cafe. Yeah. I'll look it up. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. I don't have to have babies. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all so much.
Sorry about the delay, but it worked out. Next is the topic is improving and even then us from the last meeting, which I all righty. I emailed them yesterday or two days before. Yes, you did. Yeah. I, I haven't, I only have one question. I seeming you probably haven't seen these, but they were. They were in an email, but that, you know, it's why you were lying. Well, I can put it on the screen. Oh, and Gretchen, I'm going to mention something about the minutes while we're talking about minutes. Go ahead. Um, I said, I'd be willing to do the minutes, but I'll be honest with you. I think that if you were to do the minutes about this conversation that we've had, you would get things a heck of a lot more accurately than I would. Okay. I didn't take notes, but I, you have given a good memory and you know what? I don't think it has to be exact. Sorry. You know, Um, um, there was something I saw. Oh, if it was something that was not, oh, I hear this, um, on the public hearing, there is a plan to insulate under the concrete slab, blah, blah, blah. Um, that's interesting and we can leave it there, but I think it should just say, um, uh, however, this is not part of our purview or something to that effect. So nobody thinks that we are. Oh, right. Reviewing the drain, et cetera. Right. There will be a French drain. I mean, just leave all of that and just, I mean, you can say, however, um, these details are not, uh, within the history of the historic district commission.
These details. I will be happy to make this change if you'll do the minutes for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. However, can I recommend one thing for minutes if this is helpful, but, um, I don't know if this, if one thing is, I don't know if this can be recorded. If this meeting can be recorded, secondly, it is being recorded. So we can just take the recording and ask, uh, AI to create the minutes for us. Yes, I know. Um, some, some committees have done that. Um, and it is a possibility. I can strike it. To be honest, you know what I thought we could do is start with that and then adjust it. I didn't write it. I mean, it's almost like start the draft. Yeah, it does. It does. And you know what? I agree with you. AI doesn't actually give you a view. So it's best to take it into the lab and do it. He's going to do it on the screen. Thank you. Bring this to the desk to look at. However, these details are not under the jurisdiction of the HTC. The under the, oh, these are not under the jurisdiction. I'm sorry. That's all right. Of the HTC. And that's the only little sentence that could be added at the end because we're just. We're describing things that aren't under our jurisdiction. Little, little, little, little. I can't talk anymore. Okay. Okay.
So did Greg send you a screenshot of the people who were attending? Greg has not sent me one. Greg, what is happening is Gretchen is going to do the minutes for tonight because I feel she. Could much more accurately describe the conversation we had with the windows and everything else being the expertise is then I could. So I could do it, but I just want the screenshot of the people who were attending. I'll send it to both of you. Okay. Thank you. That's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So I don't need it now. The one sentence I added it. And so I've renamed it and I'll make a new PDF. So shall we approve? Do I have a motion to approve the meetings minutes as edited? As amended. As amended. So moved. Second. Can you see it, Seema, or are you all right? Yes, I can see it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for doing that, Greg. So approved? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yes. Did we vote? Yes. Gretchen, yes. Greg, yes. Marjorie. Seema, yes. Seema, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yep. Next topic. FYI, we have to write our annual report by the end of September. Yeah. I'm going to do it soon by the beginning. By the end of September? Yeah. What I did last year is I just fed ChatGPT all of our meeting minutes and other things we approved, and it compiled this beautiful thing, and I added a photo. And I have to thread it, of course. Right. I'll do that. But this committee has to, should approve it before. It's totally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do we need a meeting for that, or can we approve it by, who knows? Well, we'll have a meeting in September, won't we? What if we don't? Huh? What if we don't? Well, we even have a meeting in September. What if we don't? What if we don't? That's 34 Bo Rowe that we have to talk about and have a meeting for, probably. Well, let's separate the topic. Yeah. Okay. Does the annual report require a committee vote, or is it just a polling? No, I think that's what we've always done. Yeah. But I don't, I might, my guess is that the chair can do it. Well, I'm going to send it around. Yeah. If I can just get a yay or nay reply, then it's, that would be good. Yeah. Yeah, but just don't put a, and there was a vote of. For the mayor. For, you know. Yeah. No, for the annual report. No. It was approved. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So, I'm going to craft an annual report, and you'll see it in your email. Okay. Fine. Thank you. It's short. It's like one page. Yeah. It's supposed to be. At the most. Yeah. They don't want them any longer. Right. Okay. So, the next topic is 34 Bo Rowe. Right. 34 Bo Rowe. And, Seema, this was something that just came in this week. Okay. Well, yesterday. And they're changing all. They're changing all the windows. Okay. Most of them. And it's really unclear. I think they're already ordered. I don't know whether they've done more than that. You went the other day. I went today. It doesn't look like they've done anything. They haven't done it yet. No, no. It just. Marjorie, you sent pictures of that. I did. And, Seema, the reason I sent the pictures, I was trying to remember what was visible from the public way. I was wondering if it was just the front of the house. But, it's three sides. The only thing you can't see from the public way is the backyard, is the rear. So, it's quite visible. They're all important. All sides are important. Yeah. And, quite frankly, it's not a terribly old house at all, but the windows are different. The ones in the front seem to be eight over one. Yeah. That's right. That's the second floor. Okay. They're very clear now. So, Seema can see it. Okay. Here's the house from the front. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. So, it doesn't look like an old house. Why do you... It's 1928. Did you get the... I saw that. Yeah. I sent you the... It's in the district. Is that... It's in the district. 1928? Well, sure. I mean, everything in the historic district is... Is in the historic district. Yeah. It doesn't... It looks very new. No. No, no, no. No. No. Not at all. I mean, one of the things that you really are concerned about when it comes to older houses like this, if it's demolished, that, you know, a gigantic, huge thing doesn't go up and replace it. Yeah. And we have jurisdiction over all of that. We have jurisdiction over whether it gets demolished or not, et cetera. But that's not the issue here. It's the issue are the new windows. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't read the specs. It was... The moment I enlarged it enough to read it, it was not... Blurry. Yeah. It was too blurry. And so, I don't know. My guess is that the whole... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And so, I don't know. My guess is that the whole thing is vinyl, that the whole windows are. I don't know if there are applied muttons or... I just don't know anything. And I don't think we can just approve it. Well, we can't because we haven't had a public hearing, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. And why... I don't know why she applied for non-applicability. It doesn't make sense. should be a certificate of appropriateness my thought is repair repair repair she just considered it repair oh so she's thinking she's not replacing it she's just repairing the ones that are there no she's not she's replacing them she is replacing but she's calling it as a repair not a replace yeah i don't know she said it's a certificate of non-applicability so i think she may have thought in her mind that she's is the is that it was brought up earlier that her house is really not an old house and therefore it shouldn't be under the same so this requires a hearing yes okay yeah yeah it does yeah make that happen did she respond to you i mean did what happened with the front step so the front step she wrote to me and said said my front steps have just collapsed i have to replace them separately they reached out to me two months ago about the front step yeah and i went over there and talked to them yeah and and i said it was a repair and it was a certificate of non-applicability and i signed it and they oh okay that's what she's getting it literally yeah he was going to rebuild it out of wood yeah it was two wood steps you can you see them here yeah you can see them and he was going to make the third one's going into the door he was going to rebuild the two bottom ones and he's going to put a slab of granite or something or on the on the bottom somewhere right now that's reading the way the thing well good for you greg it's great so that's what that was yeah okay super and then this just came just this the windows and i missed it on the email i know but the email was the middle of august you didn't miss it by much august 11th those things i wanted so how did we find it if it was um not submitted to us how did we get hold of it oh it wasn't they did they we all got it yeah they submitted this application um regular application and happened to call it non-applicability and um just had a uh a diagram of the number of windows that were being replaced um and i also couldn't tell whether in fact those first story windows on i mean sorry the second story windows on the facade were being replaced with eight over ones or six over one yeah that was unclear it was quite unclear yeah um so anyway so we just didn't really feel that oh plus the fact it just arrived yesterday so you know we couldn't we couldn't even post it and say it's uh 48 hours so i will contact them and get the whole thing rolling that's a question for us internally um because you took the nice pictures thank you they're situated in this weird road yeah where the front faces the road where people can walk right and the back faces a road which you can only see you're going 40 miles an hour down yeah you can barely see that it doesn't is that the public way no no no but the the rear of that house is not very visible no it is from a public way no but the other the front the faces both road and the two sides are yeah that was my point i agree so we're not going to challenge them about the windows in the back absolutely i don't even think there were any yes there were there were okay yeah but no okay the whole house okay but uh not in the back yeah right and and basically um i i think greg if if it's approached in such a way that what we're looking for is what she has which is appropriate for the house for the period and the whole thing um if they can be replaced kind of in kind you know with something similar okay and i'm not sure she was thinking along that line so are there any other topics for today yes uh we have new people in the historic district and um as you well know greg um my neighbor next door who i don't know their name on the other side of the depot and then whoever's moved into um next to the church kirk sign your people there too shall i write them a letter like welcome i think it's great um i i know i have one here somewhere i yeah i have one that i did and you know used to do um and send them i mean i'll find it and i'll send it to you i'll revamp it i can get the and i think what we do here is we just refer them to the website so that they can see the um guidelines on the website and and the other one is are they just two uh the one right it's not kirk side but it's the other it's kirk side and it's where the rice is used to oh yeah and the rice is old house yeah okay so i have the address okay yes good yeah right yeah so you don't i mean i'll send it to you show me the template i'll i will check it and you can just make a friend yeah welcome oh because the one i wrote was not it's always you are welcome to do whatever you want to it yeah same uh i want to probably close the meeting yeah yeah i think we can motion to close second all in favor aye gretchen yes yes thank you so much
great um we each have three sets right um kirsten four
that's nice so you've got the um the narrative and then we have exhibit a is the actual specs of the windows and then this is um exhibit b is the letter from okay yeah we've got b and c right here so the letter from our specialist and then the individual window um assessment then we've also got d here the current versus proposed share that sure uh gretchen and i can share okay
yep and then i believe this is actually another page of the sections um where you have them on your computers yes so then maybe you can uh share with the i can share public so the public knows yeah where we are yeah you might have one of the one too okay so
feel free to come and get
papers i'm gonna um are you able to okay great um well thank you guys so this um i'm joined online by members from our architectural firm jta as well as us from our general contractors, the Vantage team, so they can jump in if there are any questions that I can't answer. I don't see any participants. Are you able to let them in? They're already in.
Yeah, guys, we're here. How are you?
We have Anthony and Jay from Vantage. Good evening, all. And then we have Neil and Travis from the architecture group. So you know what I'm going to do? Just for the minutes, just for nothing else. Anthony is a new name to me. Yes, since our meeting in March, we've had some new people join up the construction side. And Anthony? And Jay Pizer? Yes, Jay Pizer. I think you've met on site, Marjorie. Yes, yes. So P-E-Y, P-E-Y. Marjorie, I have all the names screenshotted. Can you give them to me afterwards? Yeah, because I'm not getting them. Yeah. Do you want help on this? Hmm? Do you want help on this? I'm going to get the minutes. I'm going to get names from him. How do I get the spelling? Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. Okay. Go for it. Okay. So I will give just a quick overview on the narrative, and then we can dive into the exhibits, which have all the goodies, the details. So as you know, as we've discussed, obviously our approach to this whole project is to honor the building's history, try to breathe new life into it and extend it as much as possible. So as we learn, we're going to have a lot of fun. We learned, as you alerted us, that the windows needed separate review and approval. So that is how we are here today. So since our last conversation, we did a thorough evaluation of the current windows, both ourselves, as well as we've included it, the principal and managing director of head of U.S. Projects and Construction Management at Abus & Young. Okay. Okay. So looking at those windows, they are approximately 37 to 40 years old now. He, the inspector, I'll call him Patrick, he advised that, well, said, you know, typical life is 40 to 50. He believes these have met their useful life expectancy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, you know, traditionally, not only that 40 to 50 years, but the last five-plus years under the previous owner had significant lack of maintenance, so that kind of expedited. While they do visually appear to be in proper, you know, workable order, upon closer inspection, which this is the colorful red, white, and blue, you can see the front four had to go because they had asbestos in them, which was also something that we had to do. Okay. Which was also something we learned after the March meeting. Okay. And those, it was in the glue that attached to the glass. Mm-hmm. But we couldn't salvage any of those. Okay. Because those, I think, were older than the 1980s because they had just put glass around it. Okay. And that was how they had dealt with it last time. Okay. Out of the other remaining 18, there were two that, one wouldn't even open. The second would open but would fall right down. Okay. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it was the one, would NOT open and stood still for the rest of the event. And then the two others. Some were slower than others and had quite a, especially along the left side, second floor towards the room. Okay. 20 had significant open um i have videos uploaded to the link in here uh so you can watch me like you can hear okay we noted that the one we opened personally is labeled green yes right i know that was the other the other thing that is the the troublesome side was the south side of the building and of course we opened the window on the north side yeah yeah yeah yeah the the south side gets more is more exposed to the sun yeah sun as well um okay so that kind of summarizes the um existing window condition um so i guess the transitioning take that yourself tuck it somewhere thank you yeah um it transitioning to our recommendation thank you
yes go ahead um so kind of transitioning from the existing conditions uh taken that even before we had the experts opinion just the typical life expectancy for these windows it was going to be very close to the end and the wide variety of operation capabilities are indicative of you know reaching that one end of its life expectancy and they're not really the kind of things that you can repair it's more in the mechanics here here and there um additionally because we're doing the gut renovation on the inside um this is a time that it can be replaced from the interior to preserve the existing casings millwork um as i mentioned when we met on site we are preserving all of the shutters and repainting them so all of the exterior bits is there and being able to do the work from the inside allows us greater likelihood that we can preserve the exterior historical pieces um okay so then uh looking um and looking into thank you marjorie for those sheets highlighting the window um standards that you gave me in person so the the guidelines for evaluating the replacement um we spoke with the professional um who's experienced we documented and um then we have i guess we can turn to our proposed so you can that's probably the the the meat of the conversation and also like that the um energy efficiency from when the windows were put in the 90s this is obviously vastly different than energy code today yes would be much more modernized right and um we did explore the option that you had mentioned about putting in the permanent storm windows on the inside but given the the restaurant aesthetic and you know wanting to open them sometimes if we can more more fresh air during the shoulder seasons um we would much rather replace them um for the the overall aesthetic interior and exterior um okay so the windows that we are proposing um are pella um they don't um our goal and what we believe is the case is that they won't alter the appearance appearance of the building um especially the historic nature so it's mentioned the same openings dimensions um double hung which is it it is currently um existing paint configurations so the front part of the building has uh 12 over 12 in the back 8 over 12 or 12 over 8 or it's a difference but we have we're keeping all of those yeah um and again the overall white historic multi-paint appearance so for the the front facade and the first floor windows our proposal is uh simulated divided lights um so the sdl permanently applied uh contoured grills on the exterior and interior of this glass um and since those are the ones most likely to be viewed at close range uh they are also um seven eighths of an inch which matches what it is currently um so we have this page here has a close-up of the um
current and the proposed muttons um and then the second part of this is i i previewed with you at the meeting is proposing the um three-quarter inch contoured grills between glass for the second floor sides front face of the sdl but um according to several of the historic windows um including the national park service uh for secondary elevation it is um it is plausible to do that since it's a further distance um so we have uh we have the sample here that we can show you um because you have to use a little bit of your imagination because it's a different color different paints but you can see the contour of and this is grilled between the gbg um not the applied and it's my understanding of your second story um this would be for second story and then for the first story this would be in the middle and then the permanently applied on the outside so there is something to kind of simulate well there has to be something to separate the two pieces of glass yes okay right but they're not they're not mountains that go through correct right okay um also in doing um a review and this is where the printer jammed so it's um in there there you go yeah those are just additional angles of the current window but in looking at some of the neighboring properties um comery uh real estate right next door their front facade is what we're proposing for our front vinyl with the sdl um applied silk vet and whalen pediatrics right down the corner are actually um gbg on all the front facing and um side public facing first floor buildings uh first floor windows you're not in a historic district but that's all right silk is not ah silk is not right but the other uh the next door yeah um even if not technically in the historic district the general aesthetic of the area it wouldn't be uncommon because they do have some of um their other windows um are look look older i don't know what um they were on the second floor so i couldn't see um but yes that was so comery would be the most important you can see um looking at it you do get that depth yeah um and exactly i tried to take it from different uh distances so so you could see um and yeah so this would uh this one would be the interior but it's white so you can see it and then this the exterior but again since we are having the um black not white but uh since we'll be having the original casings all around it you can see it's a small modest piece and then bring it close so you guys can see
um the contoured shape and you can see from that um uh cross section there it is very similar to what is currently there in terms again it would be three-dimensional um applied to the exterior of glass exterior and interior i know you guys are more concerned with exterior but just to maintain that historical right we don't have any jurisdiction over the interiors yeah um although it's a public space so maybe we don't need to go there yeah yes um and then also i did a note on here at this awning window yeah don't don't worry that is a new one for the rear right yeah okay so um the they're wood but vinyl coated the mutton um yeah so you can say they're vinyl see they are final um and so i think i think that's a good one uh yeah okay so just so that i know that i'd heard that um um that's just my guess uh he's gonna be my third question to uh this is a question
you're talking about the three-quarter contour that we're looking at yes the simulated um divided light in between the glass those are the fiberglass or That's for the ones that are separating. Correct. That's for the second story. There's an image of it right there. Okay, but what about the first story and the main facade, the front of the building? The mountains are applied to the exterior. Correct. And what are they made of? The same material. It's a maintenance-free construction, as you see in the sample window that you have. So it's some sort of a composite, fiberglass. Okay, right. It looks like this picture right here.
Right. So the composite does not need to be painted? It is at the factory, but then in terms of maintenance, it does not need to be painted. Okay, very good. Okay. And you can see the cross-section. The additional insulation for that little green piece, yeah, for the energy efficiency. Again, that's kind of an added bonus. You look serious. And we are doing a full, I can show you afterwards all the interior pictures, doing a whole new HVAC system as well. Wow. Also adding an ADA, a platform lift. And we're going to be using it for ADA access to the second floor. On the back. Yes, inside one of the new ADA doors, right inside. Just hang on one second. We have one person who was asleep. She just flew in from Southam. Yes. And she just, where can she find the link? I see her. Pardon? She's attending. Seema? Yeah, I see her, yeah. Great. So she's going to get her in. We have a quorum. Okay, so she would be in and be able to talk. Please. Yes. Greg, I did not send the packet directly to her, but I don't know. Well, she's in, she's sitting in. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. So let's do some sort of a quick, first of all, Seema, thank you so much. You're a gem. Sorry about the delay in joining. That's okay. Well, you're here. Yeah. Yeah, I can see the information on the screen. So please don't worry about that. Yeah. Thank you so much. You are the quorum, because we couldn't, we were just going to have this lovely conversation and then try and figure out what we could do and talk to council, but now we don't have to. Now we can have a real meeting. So this is a formal public meeting. The meeting is now open. Yes. Great. And do you want to quickly bring her up to date on what we've talked about? Sure. Okay. Seema, we've been talking. We've been talking about the townhouse cafe. Okay. 21. Remember, we talked about this earlier in the year. And the reason we're talking about it today is the windows are being replaced. And that was not on the agenda at our earlier meeting. And so today, Kirsten and her architectural team are presenting the windows that are being replaced, which is all of them, but more importantly, why. And what they're being replaced with, which is an architecturally equivalent looking Pella, better insulation, obviously. And just when you joined, we were talking about details of what do the mugs look like. Yep. And there's a difference in the way mugs look like on the second floor versus the first floor. That is our recommended proposal. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of where we are. Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So the first story will be mountains between the two panes of glass. Okay. The first story and all the windows on the facade facing the road will be exterior mountains applied through glass, and the same on the interior, a separation of the glass. So to give the insulation, but yet to give the effect of true division. it muntins got it okay please continue i got it thank you and they are of a similar um depth that was the one thing that we were really yeah the depth and the width of the muntins are what seven eights yeah yeah um their color to it too that's kind of the same yes white yes yes they'll be baked on finish at the factory for the muntins and they're keeping they're doing it all from the interior so the frames that are there the casings will be the same yeah will be retained okay so it's just the sash yeah the the shutters are also retained um and then on the the second floor where the mutton is um grilled between the glass uh that has a contoured shape to it so it's not flat so from um from a distance uh looks more aesthetically uh similar to the first floor okay thank you okay i guess the one other uh just like for the general context the immediate next door commercial building um that is also in the historic district has on the front on their front facade this is comrie real estate uh they have um the vinyl windows with the muntins exteriorly applied i couldn't tell on the inside but um similar to what we're proposing for our front facade and first floor and then um though not in the exact historic district but um in the same vicinity around the corner silk and whalen pediatrics have um the grill between the glass on the first floor vinyl windows uh they do also appear to have the contoured mutton inside um you know it's they're not necessarily the same material as the original mahogany on the front facade but it's they're not necessarily the same material so that's the first side it's also kind of a contrast to the one the other side that's the civilian uh the official um the second floor um the second floor what you're trying to do is play into a two-storey™ layout that's a two-storey in aerek one-story uh-and-a-half-story out reduce the size of the interior so that's the presentation yeah i have a question yes so the um i understood perfectly well why the second floor would not have the exterior mugs decoratively applied um why wouldn't you put them up there anyways if they're on the first floor is it is are they substantially more money yes it's um i think about a twelve to fifty millimeters of materials? $15,000 savings to not.
Just kind of the winners, roughly a thousand, a window to put that thing on there. It's just a big H shape thing.
Maybe we can all take up a collection and make it one each.
But other than that, they're identical windows. Yes. Yeah, that is the only difference. And you can see on the spec sheet at the bottom, it's just the grills where they specify which one is which. And then on their diagrams of them, they've circled in red the ones that will have the exterior. Though these are just the actual windows, they're not put in, but they do correspond to the first floor sides in front. So it's not like this drawing.
Could you throw in like a, could you put in like a, not a real, like I know I'm probably a bad word to say fake muttons, but could you do that instead of real ones on the upstairs? They could, but it would be, that's the, what the. That's also 12,000. Okay, got it. That's the additional cost. Cause they're all. Oh, okay. The real ones with 12,000. Yeah. Okay. None of them is real. So it's just like a double glazed. Long or double screened. Yeah. But they're not really like the real one that they use. They have the ones that go out in the front. They have the ones that go through the way. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So they're all applied. It's double glazed. I mean, double, what do you call it? Two, two sheets of glass. Yeah. Separated by something. And then the mountains are applied on the interior. And the exterior. And so. exactly well they're decorative yeah they used to be essential to hold the panes in place right say the interior and exterior on the first floor yes so the second floor has no one in the interior no on the interior as we've been talking about just the ones that are in in the glass all the sides up on the screen so if i was to count uh on the side view the first floor windows with interior and exterior architecturally applied to muttons and the x uh exteriors the dots one two three four five oops there's ten plus four right front well i was going to the front last oh yeah so the four on the front will all have problems upstairs and nested they will have them on up they will have the mountains on upstairs and downstairs since it's the prominent facade right there okay and especially with the porch they can get very close and then while we're not having the balcony right now be operable our hope is eventually to do that so yeah
as my team has been painfully aware as i've made them uh i didn't ensure that on the front of the building we have exterior mines everywhere yes yes up and down up and down and all the uh first floor every first floor sides but not the second floor right yeah yeah it's our proposal right yes right thank you yeah yep so this uh exterior material is fiberglass um vinyl synthetic fiberglass some composite yeah do they make it in wood
uh does it look like wood it seems to me some question yeah does look like what i'm sure yeah i i don't know if there are other lines that are wood instead of vinyl within the same one um it is about a 30 percent cost increase so again just trying to balance yeah um making sure that we maintain but also have money to do the other components of it um uh so i we have not asked the question if they can just do wood buttons i will say that is probably the part that i think is hardest to tell a difference between like looking at comrys which had the external muttons um and even ours like they they look very similar especially and that was even close me taking the picture people from far away um i don't think you can tell the difference i think the other wonderful thing about not going with wood the uh maintenance yeah i mean just in a short time yeah it can look bad if it's not maintained yeah i was doing a little bit of work on the wood but i think they're all the same i bit of a deep dive in that every three to five years especially since it would be a place of business you want to do that the sanding on a painting and yeah all that quick question but the color can be the color the white that you want because it can be several variations of white so this will be the white you want it can be painted to the color you want or um i believe so and camille and or travis that might be a good um spot for you to to chime in you are color experts um yeah i would say in terms of color we're probably we want to go with the the white that is the pillow white um we i don't believe this line is going to be something that we can paint um necessarily um but the white should be fairly similar to what we have existing um especially with the casings and everything i'm saying as they are um i don't think that we'll really notice a difference okay thank you and the green shutters um um we're matching yeah right yeah it's kind of a deep green almost a black green yeah we're trying to match um and camille can maybe even tell me we are if we are our sign out front is that yes yeah yes we are matching oh great thank you what uh i'm next door and i just had some shutters painted and my craftsman who did the painting he he did it himself he couldn't find a deep green dark it's almost a black green so the green is dark you think that's okay yeah anyway i i just a recommendation assuming we all approve this and we go forward is that the building not be painted until you see the mountains because once you have those that's it that's your color and if there is a difference and if is it camilla or camille yeah camille yeah if you if you look at it and you say i do see a difference i think you need to change the building white yeah to match the mutton yep exactly um especially the color of the mountains yeah yeah and so once they're because they'll they'll drive it i mean you don't get to choose on that i gathered from what you just what camille just said yeah it's going to remain the same yeah and i will say when we um visited the historical museum and looked at the old paint chips yes it has been a variety of shades of of white oh the building yes oh yes yeah yeah yes no no doubt about that still then what is such a jog being laid around all this time and i think it would be hard for anybody to say oh that wasn't the white that sometimes has been you know once we get the algae off it's different shade but i i don't know whether that's going to hold you up a lot because i don't know how long it takes for the windows to be done and delivered but I would imagine I think that's really important for you to Camille and Jay slash Anthony please chime in if I'm speaking incorrectly but I would imagine they could give us a PMS color and we could match that sure I'm happy to chime in so we do need to paint the building in a primer coat due to the de-letting process and all the paint that has come off so I don't want to shock anyone with if they see the building being painted in the next few weeks the windows you know the windows go in from the interior they're considered they're actually one of the last things to go in and then the trim so we are we can definitely you you perform the exterior paint after the windows are installed that's no problem just and we can match it with the absolute number of Pantone colors that are available we can have it custom mashed you guys can inspect not a problem just please don't be shocked if you see us painting the building just to preserve the wood okay no that's that is uh absolutely known yes I'm not even suggesting that we have to come and examine it or that you have to wait until all the windows are installed just you have to get some of those buttons and you know get a full window if you can so you can really see it up against the paint color and then you know the color people are in charge that's right yes yeah good good color yeah to figure out whether it's a match the same or not yep okay are there any other questions from our committee no just a comment Kirsten fantastic yeah you do your homework yeah very much so yeah it's it's very appreciated very impressive if Desmond were here he'd be a cheering he's our architect yes that's amazing is there anybody from the public that's joined that would like to comment or have any questions we're coming raise your hand if you do saying none do I have a motion to close the public hearing are you okay but Seema go ahead I was just gonna say yeah I have motion to close oh okay public hearing okay second okay all those in favor say aye aye aye okay Greg aye Gretchen aye Marjorie aye right okay is that the motion to close no that's to close the public hearing all right we're getting there no more information right now we deliver it okay well I mean I think that we approve this and we just make sure that the um that the uh approval says that the final building will match the muttons since the muttons are it's a predetermined white that Pella does absolutely and that just that has to be the driving force here for sure thank you and um and I think we as a commission have concluded they will look the same because of the seven eighths inch wide external months on the first floor and the whole front and um the side second floor it's too invisible to see yes I mean because we know now we'll know but we won't but but from a design standpoint there is the seven eighths inch structure on the inside yes yes yes on the on the first floor yes and I appreciate the installation benefits and I also like your idea with the aesthetic that you can open them and live there yes it's important yeah yeah
I really thank you for all this this is this is amazing of detail this is really a tremendous great I mean it just but it also gives us something to hang our hat on because we can't just say oh sure you know he's done a good job right so I think it's really good so was that a formal enough motion I move that we accept the um proposal uh to replace the windows as presented um with the only condition that the building white match the mountain right yep and how part of the frames will be showing too I mean part of the sash the the whole sash will be showing and they'll all be white okay yeah so yeah it's that it's right okay thank you I'm sorry I wasn't supposed to deliberate like that but anyway yeah that's all right it was clear yeah you want me to say it again oh you're voting yeah okay right great yes Marjorie yes Gretchen yes Seema Seema yes okay great here you go thank you very much oh thank you yes that's excellent wow
MMO team is there through the end of the week so it also simplifies yes now getting that right I guess a follow-up question is do you is their need for us to salvage them for other buildings no are we were thinking about you salvaging them and say you could get a little money
um it's so many of them all roughly the same size or is there market to sell me um I don't know I just when I was looking at the possible options, it was to take it from other historic buildings. But since these are, I don't know what building would want. Want them, right? Yeah, I know. Well, I think it would be go to a salvage yard. And I know there's one in Roxbury, and there are a couple around. The people across the street from you on the corner of them that are building the barn. Oh, yeah. The three owners ago, they replaced their windows and their front door with salvage.
And I guess since these are only from the 80s. Do you think she might want some for her garage side window? We talked about windows.
I don't know. We could ask her. Yeah, I can shoot Mary. She's on the train. Yeah, I'll shoot Mary. You can marry her. Yeah, and ask them. Because the garage would be the one area. I don't know if there's living, or not living space, but like, yeah. Heated climate-controlled space, but if not, that could be in the area. There isn't. There isn't. No, it's not supposed to be. I'll let her know. Yeah, right. Yeah. So we'll leave that with you. That'd be great. So we, at this meeting, we have other topics to cover. So the people online are free to hang up, except for Seema. Right.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jerry. Thank you, Seema, for joining. Absolutely. Absolutely. Welcome back. Yeah, my apologies. I just traveled back from South. Africa last night, late last night. So it's midnight or 3 AM in the morning in South Johannesburg right now. So you're allowed, you're allowed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you texted me though, Gretchen. That was the best because if you hadn't, um, I probably wasn't emails. So, well, I figured that if I, I texted you and, you know, if you were still in flight or whatever, you wouldn't answer, so I was not. Yeah, I, I, I made it back late last night, but, um, it's just that, um, it, it just threw everything off by so many hours. So it does just the delays in Amsterdam just didn't make it. Yeah. Who knows? Easier. Uh, okay. Are you guys on Instagram at all? No, no, no. Maybe some of the younger people. Yes. Do you follow townhouse cafe? Yeah. I've been posting a lot of the behind the scene pictures and, um, what is it? Sorry. Townhouse cafe. You said, sorry. Townhouse cafe Bistro. Yeah. I'm on Instagram. Okay. And I don't want to distract you, but just some quick, a quick flip through of the interior opening day. Yes. Hopefully it's already done. Um, no, no, no, no.
You're still on. These are the renders look. Um, it's so yeah, it's the architectural renders with our actual furniture and lighting overlaid. It is just amazing. Wow. No work. So that is on Instagram. Yes. I've, I've put a lot of these on. Man. I might have to join the, um, pastry kitchen books to fill with the books. Oh, wow. What a, could you see any of that? Um, no, she'll go to Instagram. Yeah. I'm trying to get there right now. So sorry. Oh, okay. That's that correctly. So it's a cafe. Yeah. I'll look it up. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. I don't have to have babies. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all so much.
Sorry about the delay, but it worked out. Next is the topic is improving and even then us from the last meeting, which I all righty. I emailed them yesterday or two days before. Yes, you did. Yeah. I, I haven't, I only have one question. I seeming you probably haven't seen these, but they were. They were in an email, but that, you know, it's why you were lying. Well, I can put it on the screen. Oh, and Gretchen, I'm going to mention something about the minutes while we're talking about minutes. Go ahead. Um, I said, I'd be willing to do the minutes, but I'll be honest with you. I think that if you were to do the minutes about this conversation that we've had, you would get things a heck of a lot more accurately than I would. Okay. I didn't take notes, but I, you have given a good memory and you know what? I don't think it has to be exact. Sorry. You know, Um, um, there was something I saw. Oh, if it was something that was not, oh, I hear this, um, on the public hearing, there is a plan to insulate under the concrete slab, blah, blah, blah. Um, that's interesting and we can leave it there, but I think it should just say, um, uh, however, this is not part of our purview or something to that effect. So nobody thinks that we are. Oh, right. Reviewing the drain, et cetera. Right. There will be a French drain. I mean, just leave all of that and just, I mean, you can say, however, um, these details are not, uh, within the history of the historic district commission.
These details. I will be happy to make this change if you'll do the minutes for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. However, can I recommend one thing for minutes if this is helpful, but, um, I don't know if this, if one thing is, I don't know if this can be recorded. If this meeting can be recorded, secondly, it is being recorded. So we can just take the recording and ask, uh, AI to create the minutes for us. Yes, I know. Um, some, some committees have done that. Um, and it is a possibility. I can strike it. To be honest, you know what I thought we could do is start with that and then adjust it. I didn't write it. I mean, it's almost like start the draft. Yeah, it does. It does. And you know what? I agree with you. AI doesn't actually give you a view. So it's best to take it into the lab and do it. He's going to do it on the screen. Thank you. Bring this to the desk to look at. However, these details are not under the jurisdiction of the HTC. The under the, oh, these are not under the jurisdiction. I'm sorry. That's all right. Of the HTC. And that's the only little sentence that could be added at the end because we're just. We're describing things that aren't under our jurisdiction. Little, little, little, little. I can't talk anymore. Okay. Okay.
So did Greg send you a screenshot of the people who were attending? Greg has not sent me one. Greg, what is happening is Gretchen is going to do the minutes for tonight because I feel she. Could much more accurately describe the conversation we had with the windows and everything else being the expertise is then I could. So I could do it, but I just want the screenshot of the people who were attending. I'll send it to both of you. Okay. Thank you. That's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So I don't need it now. The one sentence I added it. And so I've renamed it and I'll make a new PDF. So shall we approve? Do I have a motion to approve the meetings minutes as edited? As amended. As amended. So moved. Second. Can you see it, Seema, or are you all right? Yes, I can see it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for doing that, Greg. So approved? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yes. Did we vote? Yes. Gretchen, yes. Greg, yes. Marjorie. Seema, yes. Seema, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yep. Next topic. FYI, we have to write our annual report by the end of September. Yeah. I'm going to do it soon by the beginning. By the end of September? Yeah. What I did last year is I just fed ChatGPT all of our meeting minutes and other things we approved, and it compiled this beautiful thing, and I added a photo. And I have to thread it, of course. Right. I'll do that. But this committee has to, should approve it before. It's totally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do we need a meeting for that, or can we approve it by, who knows? Well, we'll have a meeting in September, won't we? What if we don't? Huh? What if we don't? Well, we even have a meeting in September. What if we don't? What if we don't? That's 34 Bo Rowe that we have to talk about and have a meeting for, probably. Well, let's separate the topic. Yeah. Okay. Does the annual report require a committee vote, or is it just a polling? No, I think that's what we've always done. Yeah. But I don't, I might, my guess is that the chair can do it. Well, I'm going to send it around. Yeah. If I can just get a yay or nay reply, then it's, that would be good. Yeah. Yeah, but just don't put a, and there was a vote of. For the mayor. For, you know. Yeah. No, for the annual report. No. It was approved. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So, I'm going to craft an annual report, and you'll see it in your email. Okay. Fine. Thank you. It's short. It's like one page. Yeah. It's supposed to be. At the most. Yeah. They don't want them any longer. Right. Okay. So, the next topic is 34 Bo Rowe. Right. 34 Bo Rowe. And, Seema, this was something that just came in this week. Okay. Well, yesterday. And they're changing all. They're changing all the windows. Okay. Most of them. And it's really unclear. I think they're already ordered. I don't know whether they've done more than that. You went the other day. I went today. It doesn't look like they've done anything. They haven't done it yet. No, no. It just. Marjorie, you sent pictures of that. I did. And, Seema, the reason I sent the pictures, I was trying to remember what was visible from the public way. I was wondering if it was just the front of the house. But, it's three sides. The only thing you can't see from the public way is the backyard, is the rear. So, it's quite visible. They're all important. All sides are important. Yeah. And, quite frankly, it's not a terribly old house at all, but the windows are different. The ones in the front seem to be eight over one. Yeah. That's right. That's the second floor. Okay. They're very clear now. So, Seema can see it. Okay. Here's the house from the front. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. So, it doesn't look like an old house. Why do you... It's 1928. Did you get the... I saw that. Yeah. I sent you the... It's in the district. Is that... It's in the district. 1928? Well, sure. I mean, everything in the historic district is... Is in the historic district. Yeah. It doesn't... It looks very new. No. No, no, no. No. No. Not at all. I mean, one of the things that you really are concerned about when it comes to older houses like this, if it's demolished, that, you know, a gigantic, huge thing doesn't go up and replace it. Yeah. And we have jurisdiction over all of that. We have jurisdiction over whether it gets demolished or not, et cetera. But that's not the issue here. It's the issue are the new windows. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't read the specs. It was... The moment I enlarged it enough to read it, it was not... Blurry. Yeah. It was too blurry. And so, I don't know. My guess is that the whole... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And so, I don't know. My guess is that the whole thing is vinyl, that the whole windows are. I don't know if there are applied muttons or... I just don't know anything. And I don't think we can just approve it. Well, we can't because we haven't had a public hearing, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. And why... I don't know why she applied for non-applicability. It doesn't make sense. should be a certificate of appropriateness my thought is repair repair repair she just considered it repair oh so she's thinking she's not replacing it she's just repairing the ones that are there no she's not she's replacing them she is replacing but she's calling it as a repair not a replace yeah i don't know she said it's a certificate of non-applicability so i think she may have thought in her mind that she's is the is that it was brought up earlier that her house is really not an old house and therefore it shouldn't be under the same so this requires a hearing yes okay yeah yeah it does yeah make that happen did she respond to you i mean did what happened with the front step so the front step she wrote to me and said said my front steps have just collapsed i have to replace them separately they reached out to me two months ago about the front step yeah and i went over there and talked to them yeah and and i said it was a repair and it was a certificate of non-applicability and i signed it and they oh okay that's what she's getting it literally yeah he was going to rebuild it out of wood yeah it was two wood steps you can you see them here yeah you can see them and he was going to make the third one's going into the door he was going to rebuild the two bottom ones and he's going to put a slab of granite or something or on the on the bottom somewhere right now that's reading the way the thing well good for you greg it's great so that's what that was yeah okay super and then this just came just this the windows and i missed it on the email i know but the email was the middle of august you didn't miss it by much august 11th those things i wanted so how did we find it if it was um not submitted to us how did we get hold of it oh it wasn't they did they we all got it yeah they submitted this application um regular application and happened to call it non-applicability and um just had a uh a diagram of the number of windows that were being replaced um and i also couldn't tell whether in fact those first story windows on i mean sorry the second story windows on the facade were being replaced with eight over ones or six over one yeah that was unclear it was quite unclear yeah um so anyway so we just didn't really feel that oh plus the fact it just arrived yesterday so you know we couldn't we couldn't even post it and say it's uh 48 hours so i will contact them and get the whole thing rolling that's a question for us internally um because you took the nice pictures thank you they're situated in this weird road yeah where the front faces the road where people can walk right and the back faces a road which you can only see you're going 40 miles an hour down yeah you can barely see that it doesn't is that the public way no no no but the the rear of that house is not very visible no it is from a public way no but the other the front the faces both road and the two sides are yeah that was my point i agree so we're not going to challenge them about the windows in the back absolutely i don't even think there were any yes there were there were okay yeah but no okay the whole house okay but uh not in the back yeah right and and basically um i i think greg if if it's approached in such a way that what we're looking for is what she has which is appropriate for the house for the period and the whole thing um if they can be replaced kind of in kind you know with something similar okay and i'm not sure she was thinking along that line so are there any other topics for today yes uh we have new people in the historic district and um as you well know greg um my neighbor next door who i don't know their name on the other side of the depot and then whoever's moved into um next to the church kirk sign your people there too shall i write them a letter like welcome i think it's great um i i know i have one here somewhere i yeah i have one that i did and you know used to do um and send them i mean i'll find it and i'll send it to you i'll revamp it i can get the and i think what we do here is we just refer them to the website so that they can see the um guidelines on the website and and the other one is are they just two uh the one right it's not kirk side but it's the other it's kirk side and it's where the rice is used to oh yeah and the rice is old house yeah okay so i have the address okay yes good yeah right yeah so you don't i mean i'll send it to you show me the template i'll i will check it and you can just make a friend yeah welcome oh because the one i wrote was not it's always you are welcome to do whatever you want to it yeah same uh i want to probably close the meeting yeah yeah i think we can motion to close second all in favor aye gretchen yes yes thank you so much