October 22, 2025 – Housing Partnership – Video & Transcript
October 22, 2025 - Housing Partnership
So I'll call us to order at 7.07.
That's your sign?
No, that's not my sign.
Wait a minute, I'll show you my sign.
I'm in offer a minute, but I'm sure...
I'm happy to have you do it next time.
I don't do a lot, so I always...
I'll tell you what, I'll take notes too, and you can send me your drafts.
Sometimes that works well.
Okay.
So, minutes are the first thing.
Any additions or corrections?
Well, I see that...
I was glancing at them, and I apologize, Mary.
I did not read them in advance, but the name of the man who's the project supervisor is Philip Kreen.
C-R-E-A-N.
Thank you, I'm not sure if I remember that.
Anybody have additions or corrections? Oh, the only addition, it is relevant. If you care. It is, you know, it means a tweet, really. I know. I was supposed to contact the VOH and the building, and I did.
Oh, the truth. But it was passed. All in favor, we don't even have to roll poll. I'll see you next. Aye. Good day and aye.
So, the 2-12 committee.
Is there a meeting going on? There is a meeting going on. They are. They're 5 to 8 on October 8, and tonight's 5 to 8 too. So, how do you avoid going? I just went from five to seven, but Jean is still there. Oh, I see. Okay, yeah, she was. She didn't know. She didn't know we had a meeting. But part of the reason why they're lengthy is because they've invited a lot of service providers to come speak. And service, I mean, we've tried to expand beyond service providers to include, you know, like SMOC, for example, the Regional Housing Authority, the Area Office of DDS. It's a little harder to get those to come. But the service providers have been so welcome to come and give their time. Tonight, for example, was the Guild for Human Services, Charles River Center, and Minna Bay Mark. It's great. I think it's a little bit slow going because I think the main question is, how do we figure out what population could best be served at that location and fit in well with the community last week? I mean, October 8th, some of the abutters came, understandably, you know, expressing some concern and reservations about what might be built there, especially the scale. Where we're stuck right now is it's a four-acre site. And if you have DDS funding for a group home, you can only build one group home with five units. And why is that? I'm talking about four-acre. Yeah. Because they won't even let you, if you want it to fill in. This is what DPS is? DPS Department of Developmental Services, DDS. With five, what? Five units. So, what for four-acre site? Oh, wow. And what they're saying is, it's just, they feel like, I mean, I shouldn't give my opinion as I'm coming to that. I mean, you know, I hate pleasure in my face. But I think it's so absurd. They don't want to overwhelm the community by having too many units. But, you know, it's like, couldn't you at least do two five units on four-acre so that you could share some amenities, share some staffing? I mean, if it's the population of a group home, which are the five units, which are, you know, clients who have DDS funding, some of them have pretty extensive needs. And you might have nursing staff go by. Both the Guild and Charles River had 24-hour staffing. And so then there become issues around even getting a parking lot where people won't complain about people coming and going for their 11 p.m. shift and headlights going. So there's some real challenges to what I think we can do there based on DDS. Can it be useful? Can you have an alternative use going on? In other words, an affordable... I think you could probably like to, you know, you could subdivide and do something else on two acres. But you can't have them marry each other. We would have to, apparently, we'd have to get a waiver for Charles River to have one on Boston Post Road and one at 212 because you'd have to get an exception. But the CEO of Charles River was optimistic that they wouldn't get an exception because they're deemed pretty different neighborhoods. But that, the one on Boston Post Road is 12? I think it shows 12. Do you remember, Mary? I don't, I don't know. I didn't think it was that thing, but it's on the inventory, but, you know, it is on the inventory, but I don't, I don't have it somewhere. Anyway, it's at least nine. And over time, DDS had said smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. And how big is the lot with the Charles River House? That, it's small. It's right next to Vogue's Theater. The director, she's been the CEO for a long time. And she remembers the meeting in Rayland when they were putting that in. And she said one of the funny things that happened, because they changed their approach to what the houses look like. All these agencies really tried to make them look very residential, like a whole many of us would be in. But she said the one on Boston Post Road, someone pulled in one time and thought it was a bank because it's got the lines for parking and everything. So they tried to make it blend in a little better now. But you know who's speaking right now? Because I think a bunch of us is Andy from Minuteman Art. Oh, nice. And they don't necessarily work with DDS. So his presentation could be interesting because they'll do homes for individuals that may not need 24-hour staffing.
You might have more funding gaps with that kind of model. But it would be interesting to hear his perspective.
And he said, and this isn't really related to 212, but Matt O'Connor is apparently still plugging away to get the local development out. Oh, really? I thought he might have stopped. He and Andy are still working on that, which is great. So anyway, I think 212, the hope is February, early spring, to get a request for proposals out. But I think all this homework will be really worthwhile because we really have to know from the service providers who's willing to work with the town and what would you want to build. And make sure that the RFP is crafted in a way that people are going to want to submit a proposal. You know, I feel like there's been such a sea change around this whole issue and that there's so much more enthusiasm and energy to try to get these projects done. Not just one, but several. So it's really enormously exciting in how well-informed everybody's becoming. Like what you just said about DDS. I mean, stuff we just don't know about. And it's clearly a priority. It's clearly a priority. The working group is really, really good. But several people on there are parents of, I mean, amazing professionals and also parents of children who have disabilities. Yeah. So it's just such an acute need. So I agree. I'm derailed about it. And we were having this conversation 10 years ago. Right. So people are talking about ATUs. Yeah. No, so this is exciting. The energy is there. And I feel like the expertise within the town and outside of the town is there. And hopefully we're going to see some units. Yeah. Hopefully it's going to get stagnant by the federal changes. The concern is that Medicaid, you know, Medicaid could be affected. But Charles River was saying, and I mean, this is their work. So, but she just said, there really hasn't been any indication that you're going to totally cut off funding from DDS and from these populations. So it's too, it's too critical. But someone, yes, that we're going to get a monster in chief. Yeah. So, I mean, this is over the weekend about, you know, special education being taken from the Department of Education to HHS back into a medical model, which took, you know, 45 years ago. We fought like hell to get it out of HHS to get into education to treat kids as having instructional needs, educational needs, and start treating people as if they had the medical technology that needed to be a change of things. Interesting. And now here they are.
But no, focusing on the positive, I totally agree. It's exciting and it will, something will happen there. Yeah. There's too much. And the state, Massachusetts, is that. Yes. The four parts of them. Yes. Yes. I thought you could do a few. Any news? I got, this is the first time ever that I got an unsolicited note of something. It was usually, I mentioned about two days before the meeting. What's happening, Philip? So he said, on Monday, I wanted to send you a quick note that we received some good news from Mass Housing. They have the bond capacity for St. Anne's in the first half of next year, and we're tentatively targeting the construction start of April 1, 2026, pending the issue of conservation being resolved. We're meeting with Mass Housing early next week, and I can let you know if there's any additional updates from them. So this means that the bulk of the financing, Mass Housing, you know, has the bonds, and the bonds are used to actually build the buildings. So the fact that the bond capacity is there, and this issue with conservation, I, you know, the minutes are about as clear or unclear as I have. And I wrote to Linda Hansen saying, and this may not be appropriate, I may be rubbing my nose into something that, you know, something very apologetic, but could you please get this agreement done? Now, please figure out how to make this happen. The party seems to want to move forward. Can you do a meeting? She never wrote back to me. Oh, she didn't. I don't think so. I'd have to go back and check my notes, but I do not have any recollection. And I did it right after the last meeting, and I don't think she wrote back to me. So I, you know, I just hope they can figure out. I don't understand the sticking point. I'm not going to try to even understand it. Most I just want to get resolved, because they are ready to go. So did you, were you able to find out anything from Sean? Sean said that there, he deferred to Linda. He said Linda had been very patient, and she hadn't gotten information from Phillip. I, Linda, she said there's been a complete lack, lack of responsiveness from him. From, apparently there was. From the developer or from Linda.
I can't wrap him up, because he's very responsive. I mean, the whole place, you know, that whole organization, that place is an exceeding professional, complex, great reputation. Welcome back from New Hampshire. I'm glad you're back. So I, I didn't know about a new truck, so it was like, why are we doing this right now? Can't we do this on the weekend? I will, I'll follow up with Sean again. But I, I think you're saying that the good news is, I think, is that the breaking ground of the St. Anne's development is slated for April 1, 2026. So that would, hey, you're going to have to come back for that. I will, 100%. And we're going to have to get father of a beer here. But every time I write him a note, say, hi, father of a beer. We've got tax credits, we'll go back in every year. How do you think that site will have date? Well, this is because, this is based on their funding. So, you know, the developer gets new news that they've got the bond capacity from the state to, to move forward. So they just picked the date of construction starting April 1. I think maybe April 10 and maybe May 1, but they're aiming for the spring. Do you think that we should write a letter to, I mean, I have, I have, you know, asked many times about appointing Gene, no action.
I think that's very good. I, I, I'm glad for anybody else who wants to write that letter to do with me. I mean, usually I take on doing that. I am, as Captain knows, this ADU forum has devoured me. I mean, it seems like it's ridiculous that it has devoured me, but it has devoured me. So I am not writing any more letters. Well, I did write an op-ed for the West Telegram. And it's like, on Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Oh, good. Did you? Oh, yeah, look it up. It's a few, a few weeks ago. Yeah. You mentioned R.O.K. So I, I'm happy for anybody else to do it. And I can't explain, I don't understand the issue between, you know, whatever's in the minutes is what is in the minutes, but I don't, I don't understand it. But do you want me to take a crack at it and understand what he's doing? I'm just going to look at, look at you. Um, but we have been without a conservation representative for years. Yeah. I don't remember when, um, Joanne Barnett and Chris Harland, um, both, both finished their terms at the same time. Um, and that's been several years. Several years. I, I don't know. So, I mean, it's, that, that is a fact. We have been without a conservation commission member. And Jean is up in front of us. And St. Anne's is really, it's crazy. And they, you know, they've got the tax credits, they've got the bond financing, they've got plans, and we don't want to lose it to them. No, no, we don't. See what? I can't. I'm sorry, you said they have the what? And the bond financing? The tax credits. Oh. The tax credits. Yeah, it's so competitive to get that. Well, it took us, it took us a few rounds before. We knew it would take a few rounds. And is that, how federal is that? I mean, very federal. It is very federal. But the interesting thing about tax credits is there's no appropriation for tax credits. Right. It goes as a back-end subsidy through the Treasury Department. So, it's tax write-offs that wealthy investors or wealthy court institutions buy these tax credits. So, Russell Law can't pluck it off. So, it's not, it's not a line item in the budget. Like, like, like the, you know, public housing rehab and, you know, operations. Let me, for a second. Is that Boston? Yeah. Yeah. So, the good news is the tax credit is sort of hidden because it is this back-end subsidy. People like me hate back-end subsidies because we like it appropriated, spent, used, but it's a cheaper way to do it, a more efficient way to do it. But, right now, I think it's an odd benefit that it's a hidden subsidy. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It could still get attacked. Yeah. Don't, don't, the, the, the, the. Oh, yeah. Anything could be it. And it could still, it could still, so, until that book is under construction and, you know, all the contracts are signed. It could be under construction and they could stop if they've done that. Yeah. In other things, like with the wind power. Do we know, though, if the common issue is related to the neighbors, something that they raised? I, I'm not aware of this. I haven't heard anything about neighbors. It has to do with wetlands, distance of. It's the state's interpretation versus the town's interpretations or something. Yeah. That's what the minutes say, but, honestly, I don't know. Well, I'm assuming it has to do with, you know, either streams or wetlands. One of those things, which is the, you know, the difference between a notice of condition or an order condition, you know, superseding is that they, in their standards.
Uh, so I don't know.
I, I mean, a letter is fine. I mean, maybe a letter that we write and that we send in with the select board, maybe get them to co-sign it or a town manager, you know, I think we should CC Michael McCall on money for sure. You know, there's just no pressure points that we can put on people easily in our form of government that, you know, says to the department head, you need to get this result. Yeah. You know, as opposed to everybody acting as their own little, yeah. Uh, okay. Why don't we, you can CC Michael McCall and McCall and, uh, we're sorry. Thank you. Yeah. Great. I don't know that there's anything that we can do to help or facilitate. We've tried. You know, I'm wondering. If we can say, is there anything that we can do, I think I, I, I have to go back to my email, you know, please let me know, uh, you know, can we have them have a meeting? They seem to be able to have a face to face meeting, you know, like, I mean, certainly the letter should be there for the town with the 10% board. Yeah. I mean, so they should be thinking as a whole. Right.
And you may, you may not, you may be right, you may, you may be implicit what you say in the letter, but Big Fall obviously gets it. Well, so there's some good news and complicated news and maybe get to the bottom of it. But back to you guys. How did you start? No, I don't think you're going to be going to be, Rachel has been hearing about pulling all these little pieces together with players, inversions, and we've had, I don't know how many, also, um, you know, it's been, we started with the agenda that you all saw last time. Right. And I think it was sent out. So we do have the agenda of the program. Yeah. Now, was panel D still on it when you got that for the panel? I think so. Okay. That was said after the last meeting. It was the one, AAUD's panel, panel B. I just said update panel C. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So, um, one of, just to back up, uh, Kathy and I have met, I don't remember when we last talked about this, Kathy and I met with this, uh, planning board, and I, that, that was since the last, before the last, anyway, Robin Bolts that has been the liaison from the planning board, she's been very, very helpful in every way in, in working as a team. What's your name? Robin. Robin, the woman. Oh, okay. B-O-R-G-E. Okay. S-T-E-T-T. Turns out she and I have the same admissions. R-G-T. Not R-P-G. R-G-T. Do you have a copy of... I do. So this is, so that is her name is on there. Yeah. That is basically the agenda, the format of the meeting. Um, we made a decision, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to have a separate conversation about the affordable dwelling units, accessory dwelling units. Okay. It was originally going to be the last of four panels. And we realized collectively, and we also realized, um, I, we were thinking of having a guest speaker for that last panel. The guest speaker is a former student of mine. Her name is Dana Luenta. She is now at Mass House in Partnership. She's kind of, uh, I won't say a, she's always been something of a superstar. But she is well positioned within the state. Not only with Mass House in partnership, but working with the executive office, it has in the communities. She's, uh, she's a player in the, in the, uh, ATU and the AAD. She's a very smart person, and the more I talked to her on the phone, she said, look, Rachel, I will come to your meeting as a favor. And to hear that's like, let me think about this. But I think we'd do better if we had a separate meeting when we could really brainstorm together, where I can hear more about what Wayland's because her job is public and community engagement. That's her title. She's one of the senior, uh, people at Mass House in Partnership. It's weird that you're, you're students and have the senior people in there. She doesn't run the organization, but, anyway. Uh, Mark Drayson. I mean, he was not my student, but, he just is retiring from the MAPC. It's like all these people who look like little people who look like girls. Retiring, what do you say about that? Um, so Dana was very willing to come, but when I stopped to think about it, we have 20 minutes set aside at the end of the evening, I'm going to come Dana out of her home, you know, at 8 o'clock to 8.15 to come for 15 minutes. That is not making good use of this one this time. So, uh, I talked to Kathy and then, you know, shared with Robin and I agree. It made a lot more sense. And we very quickly got another date, which was, I think, a good thing because we now know that is going to happen in December as a brainstorming session. So, a lot of people who would be at the meeting are not going to come to this, but people who really want to dig in and talk about how we make AADUs out of this opportunity will be there, and Dana will be there to help me. So, that's affordable AADUs? That's, right. That's a separate meeting. So, the affordable AADUs will be mentioned. They will be referred to, but they will be referred to as a separate issue that will take a lot of additional thought, conversation, and this thought of conversation going on in town, as well as across the state. And here, we have Dana Winta, who represents the state, who's grappling with this issue, and it's very central to the issue. May I have the date? Yes. Didn't she offer you a date? I do have the date. 12, 12. No. You said December or 12? No, that, it's December. It's December, early December. It's a 12-20. Robert couldn't make another date, but we very quickly nailed down December 2nd at 7 o'clock. So, that's... 7 a.m. So, it will be roughly a 7 to 8 or 8.30 time, but it will be all devoted to this. All the Dana kind of being featured as the key person. Well, it's great to do it after we have this discussion about all the issues. Yeah. So, it all of a sudden... It gives this opportunity to weigh in and to be, you know, brainstorming. Yeah. And that's the point of it. Not 15 minutes, but... Right. The point of it is to do some work and to see if we can come up with some ideas for what might make sense at the state level. I mean, I started to think, well, could you count each ADU as a half unit instead of a whole unit toward the inventory? You know, like, would that happen? Because I know the Select Board and Planning Board are very conscious about every ADU unit requires more affordable housing. So, if you can count each ADU in a different way, might that help? Or is there a way to hold harmless? You know, you have 10 ADUs and you don't have to... You know, you might comply with the SHI unit. I mean, they're just ways to think creatively about how it becomes a possible without making it more of a burden for towns to forget. Just a quick aside. Do you want me to reserve that date with Jalen? Please. Ben. Thank you. I'm sorry to reserve that date what? With the town, so we have... So we have a little here. Yeah. Okay. Won't be our monthly meeting, but... It probably won't be, but... Yeah, because that's early December. Yeah. So that is a big change. There have been some changes in the guest speakers. Julia... Oh, let's see. This week I met with... Monday night I met with the Select Board and the Board of Health by Zoom. I made a presentation to each about the upcoming forum, requesting their sponsorship. I was asked what does co-sponsorship mean. I said, truly, at this point, it just means lending your name to this to show town-wide support for an important initiative where we're trying to inform residents about what's going on as a public service. So I said, I don't like to use the word rubber stamp, but we are really just seeking your engagement as a supporter of this effort. And that was Select Board and what was the event? Board of Health. And we got unanimous votes from both. Julia Younghands, who wasn't able to commit, she's the... After the Board of Health meeting, she said she would be willing to serve on the panel. And she wrote to me tonight saying several of the lovely people from the attendance. So one person who dropped out of the panel shift, well, there are actually two. One is Rob LaRue, the assessor, who does not want to get into any details about what the property tax implications will be. So Robin, here was a great move by Robin, who picked up the phone today. Because we just heard on Monday. Rob had been confirmed. He had confirmed a month ago that he or somebody from his office would appear. On Monday, he wrote me a very terse note saying, neither I nor anyone who will be on this will be participating. Without any explanation. That's right. And I wrote back and I said, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's very disappointing. Would you mind not asking, you know? And he clearly didn't mind by asking for any reason. But that actually doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's kind of a burning issue for property taxes. But he doesn't want to get pinned down. He doesn't want to get pinned down. Okay. Well, yes, don't pin it down. But in any case, Robin talked to him and left. She wrote Kathy and Mia, though, because we're like this little threesome chatting all day and all night. Sometimes it's interesting what times these emails go in. My daughter, you know, my daughter is a corporate lawyer, as you know. When she worked for a firm, she would say, let the attorneys wait up until 3 a.m. to send it out so that they can do this. Let them know that they've been working on it for three hours or four hours. So they send it out at 3 a.m. She doesn't work for that company anymore. Anyway. Wake up. I thought it was funny when I see Kathy's emails coming in at all hours. Kathy's building a pitch irate. We all are Kathy. We all are Kathy. So I suggest that right now that panel C, which is, what is panel C? It is the septic. The septic rules capacity and implications. Oh, no. Penalty. Yeah. Construction process. We're not going to have any hard anticipated costs. It's all going to be fluid. It's, um, Nathan, uh, from the building commission also does not want to be on the panel. They don't want to feel pinned down to what this could cost. Nobody's, nobody's asking me to sign on the dotted line. They don't want to get cornered into estimates that, so me that he, you know, LaRue, is going to participate, but Miltinsky said he would be there to answer questions. Okay. It's other divisions. Is he the commissioner? Yes. Okay. So, uh, we've got, um, oh, so, because, uh, LaRue can't, uh, be on that panel, because it's only Robert now on that panel. I asked Robin if she would be on that panel, because she now knows probably more about it, because she talked to Rob, and she seems to know as much as anybody about it, about talking around the property tax issues. It's just talking around. You know your property taxes. Right. And you know what the questions are, whether it's a, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a person that detects you. Oh, Rob is also beyond that. Yes. Rob. Robin. Robin, not Rob. Robin, who's at the planet. The planet board. But, but how about Robert Hummel? He's already, yeah. Oh, Robert's over there. Right now, Robert is only, the only main speaker on that panel. I see. It was supposed to be Rob. I see. So, now, at the moment, it's only Robert. So, if you had some support from Robin, as a back and forth, I think it would be very good. Okay. So, I asked Rob, you know, to, and I haven't heard back from her yet, but I'm assuming she'll say yes. So, in another business, I asked Robert Hummel, because we're supposed to be giving out handouts from the steps of how you go about doing an ADU. And I asked Robert for his handout, and I asked him for the handout that the building commissioner is putting together. So, we got the handouts from them. And, over the last two days, Kathy, Robin, and I have worked on those handouts, because they are not yet good handouts. Is that a bad way to say it? They needed proof. They needed proof. They needed proof. In the interest of brevity, they were somewhat. I think Robin put it well. Can it both be too brief and too complicated? I don't know. At the same time. So, we've given them very precise edits about how to change them. I sent them back to Robert today. So, here we are. It's the 22nd. They've got plenty of time to take those edits and to make it better. I said, if you want to talk to us or sit down with us, we'd be happy to go through it with you. Hopefully, so here's the suggested edits memo that just went out. Wow. So, the handouts were planning board and building? So, there are two handouts. One is, this is the planning board's handout, what it looks like. It was sort of dense with information. A lot of scrunched up stuff. Very hard, in my opinion. Like, if one of my students was submitting this as their term project, it would not apply. Because it's not a welcoming document. You could say, well, I'm not going to see much information. I said, it needs to be at least two pages. You know, front and back. Something. Well, you've got a lot more air. And then the building commissioner document is here. And it's, it's not a bad starting point. But it's not complete enough. It doesn't have. That looks a lot easier to read. It doesn't have URLs. It's a checklist. It's a checklist, but it doesn't often say where to get the forms for the checklist. It doesn't say what the heck it is. And I could read you one thing from it that Kathy and I, I think both, huh? What is this? I mean, people are going to need handbooks. Yeah. But at least every form should be as accessible. Totally. I mean, I think they're fine. You have to be consistent with each other. So you definitely should know what we're trying to do. So prepare for building permit application. Stretch energy code compliance form. What? Without any hyperlink, without any URL, without any explanation of what that is. Where is compensation at the day of the HIC CSL license or exemption form? I had to look that up, so. I didn't love looking up all my questions. For any kind of document, or convenient contractor instruction, there's also a way to get that form and what is that form? It's very exciting. So while it's not a bad beginning, it's not that helpful for a lay person who's just like, what is this mean? And then throws it down and just says I don't want to bother you. Exactly. H1. The Office of Consumer Affairs or whatever the HIC. So this is the document that was sent out today. hxc so this is the document that's going to send out today giving feedback this is what you need to do in our opinion that they may you know not be happy with that but the good news was we worked really well with robin it's not that i'm not that it's fine but now she was in the next one to work totally totally i'm so glad that she's uh part of the script because she's catching things kathy's catching things brain dead and just trying to get it all back but it sounds like she then she would be a good person yeah i think i i'm hoping she'll say sure you know she'll sit in and do what she can to uh and it sounds like she speaks english as well she's a very smart and very capable person yeah no i mean it's important to have people who speak so they can be understood like we're lucky that you know when kathy and i made the presentation to the planning board that it was clear she was they were interested enough to actually assign somebody to the other co-worker and she has been a co-worker good so it's it's been very uh productive and satisfying is and that's still chair of the planet well jennifer steel had been the chair yeah and she stepped down jennifer's not even on the planning board she's not on the planning board she's not oh she's not i didn't see her i think yeah i think she's retired so janitor had been very very very good and now annette is of course just being frustrated so um so and and annette did raise the question about i said it's to get it moving to want to do see how people want to use this new state law make them understand their options opportunities if it's good for them not good for them and we have to keep working on them well so pleased you guys have done that much work we're so lucky as a town to have you guys doing this because there are so many people in other towns that would just be going if you have if you can't go into your building department and get it you know here's how well i wouldn't i would be the first to drop that hot potato well hopefully we'll get that building department to produce a document that will be readily accessible but do so both doing that and publicizing and doing this form i think it's just great just great well then rachel had also a piece with them with the call post oh yes i i did that i do do one or two other things in my family's occasionally yes so uh today i submitted in order to get a uh an article into the wayland post prior to the november 12th meeting it has to be submitted by the strike because it's a two week span from submission to publication and two weeks gives us whatever date but it's it's a week and a half before our meeting but that was the day that i had to get it so we i had to tweak it a lot because i didn't know who the guest speakers was it going to be rob was it going to be julia you know and that came down to the wire getting who's in who's that i don't like i don't like to be bulls in advertising so i had to make sure i had the right view so yes i read i wrote a an article based on all the other all the documents and whatever and kathy and robin approved it and that went in today on friday however it's longer than their word limit i do one thing that said they wanted 250 words another thing she said was 460 words my piece is 660 words because that's what my piece is so that's what my piece is and it's like and you know i don't i don't want to brag but it's a good piece
i have self-credit plagiarized myself every possible place i put it on every other document and it turned out kathy's a good piece right yeah so whether they will they accept it i don't know maybe i assume they can edit it down i could edit it i could edit it down but i'd rather not because when you write it you've got new words in james
in addition to the post i'm wondering about a little blurb for the town managers a newsletter and that is always due to friday before the beginning of the next month so that's sort of like halloween is that also that is not only sort of like halloween that is so i could send that into into jalen okay and ask her if if she could include that okay this is in the um it can't be 670 words you know what i have to have to take one order from every paragraph you know wait when every word is a gem and you massage it and you care about it you know as an academic every word is another raised you know in your pocketbook right yeah well i guess it's a different view from an attorney i'm joking i think we're not brief exactly they're not all gems believe me no i i i i tend to be a word writer i know that's great i thought i would see if we could get it in the coa newsletter okay so so jalen gets the michael michael mccall's newsletter yep yep and would it be the same blurb as goes in michael mccall's or would it be different from the coa um well it might it might be a little different in that you know as a senior you might yeah and maybe gene would okay so so this should go who should this for the senior uh well i i'll i'll send an email tomorrow to julie okay to see if if we can do that uh so i wouldn't start anything tonight well mostly i'm not starting anything mostly it's right here i will do another paragraph as a senior myself who would not get who is not interested in an ATU however i can tell you all the reasons why you're not in control so i'll check with her and find out who it goes to and okay are there any other i guess this wouldn't be of interest like to them it's possible there are other cities and towns but i think it's possible i mean it can't hurt to try just because so many towns yeah where i would guess we're ahead of where a lot of other towns are yeah we haven't been in touch with liz rust oh well um should we at least be in touch with her yeah to you yeah yeah oh i'll ask her and um you know christina can walk so i i can send um i can send this out to you this is the okay this is what went to the web and post today and i can send you want to send it to all i'll send it to all yes that would be great and i will and then you'll have it as you'll have it you could send it to julie and you could say you could target it a little bit more for seniors okay okay but this is the basic information please does that mention the december 2nd one oh good okay perfect because liz might hear more about it it does that's at the end
do you want to answer that as a handout no no no no because this is just describing what the the 18 bible is it's all going to be discussed at the point it says who the guest speakers are going to be what we're going to be talking about so it's it's it's a pr piece for in advance uh it i don't think it's necessary okay but uh it's a it's a template for um advertising now is there anything that the rest of this can do at this point i think honestly i'm hoping that things are pretty much set at this point once we get the handouts in shape that they need to be in and they not only have to be handouts but they have to be on the websites posted properly and easily accessible and understood um but i'm hoping that the work we're doing with the handouts will enable them to clean up their websites and make sure that the website is extremely user-friendly and understandable and uh so i don't think you know i i'd love to have more help but i'm beyond help i think it's nice i have to help the help is going to come into 12 to date in terms of people being prepared for even just prepared for discussion or brainstorming i mean i think that's what it is i don't think this woman is coming in um being coming in to talk at us i think it really is an idea or conversation yeah and i think this is where people can especially this committee thinking about credibility because that's what it's about yeah who who will be on the panel from the panel from the committee but the thing i'm not i'm not on kathy's on committee i'm going to be on the 12th i'm going to be the minimum i'm going to be the minimal moderator a meeting i will convene to the committee explain this in panel okay and kathy who the kathy
this is penalty not c is on is off the table oh so we'll only because eight is the separate that was the affordable so it's a b and c i'm sorry i don't have it in front of me all right so these are only basically half hour panels yeah so if we have you can't really have more than two or three people at any different and i am simply welcome people close it at the end and uh q a if there's okay q a if we have i'm i i'm feeling like maybe my remark should say you know each of the people would like to speak and then they'll pause for a few minutes and then um if you have questions so i think it should be within the 30 minutes i don't think it should be stuck at minute 28 but right um but i think we get a conversation going and get them to ask questions as early as possible so i'll try to kind of give a framework that let everybody on the panel say a few words and then uh let's go with questions and answers and there's going to be some stuff that is not necessarily that clear one of the things that came up in the the handouts was sort of like you know fixating on a single-family home it's not limited to a single-family home it's talking about in single-family home districts so anywhere there's a single anywhere there's a home in a principal dwelling in a single-family home district then you're open to you were right to have an adu so it's like where the emphasis is and and that's not what they were doing in their stuff and they also had stuff like um just sort of i'm telling what i'm dealing with um a couple of things where they they just were off in terms of the way they loaded oh prohibited what was prohibited what do you know what the room is going to be in it's going to be in the senior center yeah yeah like owner-occupied occupancy not required by the new law it's not just not required it's prohibited so it makes a difference so it's sort of again how you look at something it's i mean you don't want the town you know but this is from the town saying not required wait a minute and so again it's the kind of thing where you want to do an adu and so you want to you don't want this person to come into your adu so you're going to say oh well we're going to have those owner-occupied ones you're going to use you all about you know family members stuff to discriminate well no you can't do that you know but we're going to make it real clear in terms of what the rules are you know so kathy did a great job just just as i was focusing on the dotting the closing the t's and i think the highest kathy was finding money was separate by the entrance required no no or though an entrance shared right they can give in your door if that's what you want yeah that's what you want yeah but this is from the law i know but it's that kind of yeah that was misleading it was and then there i don't know so anyway so hopefully we won't have any contention
so the panels will be in the same place so i don't think they'll be here i think the issues will come around there's some fraternity general opinions that are coming out now that are taking us beyond for example it's not limited to a single family home that they're saying you can have a multi-family unit well yeah that's not what they said either and so but but this was really an opinion that came out in april now it doesn't mean that i don't know if they've appealed or not to find that out but again it's that type of thing where there may be some give and take here and there may not be absolute you know clarity in terms of the innocence but it's so fun i mean at least people will be thinking and have the issues you know clearly put out your father and the and part of it i'm sure is we want them to do it and the planning board is i mean that's work well that's and it's also good that's why it's been so good to have robin with us because robin you're an attorney and she's approved these changes so of course she's on the planning board and she's the representative so we're on the same page so i know this is excellent so now we're not doing this this is a lot of detail that we gave them yeah about redoing their candidates and web pages is it you know it's two and a half pages of do this do this do this don't do that let's see let's see where it goes so but hopefully and then one of the other things came up with the planning board when we did the presentation before or seeking their support was that they really um spoke to the fact of not having individuals like an architect or somebody in town contractor on the panels because somebody who might be seen as promoting their own work and we yielded to that and we did we yielded to that so that's why people in the school might have come up with ideas instead of names um that they thought should have been on it that's why they aren't talking about and we didn't even each other and we just immediately officially that when that had felt she said made her uncomfortable said okay fine yeah no they don't need to be highlighted
um so anything else about so we have this meeting on november 12th we have the second one on december 2nd do you want another do you want us to meet before the december 2nd we should okay
december 2nd is a planning meeting with somebody about affordable adus and affordable adus are not going to be part of november 12th right okay okay i propose november 19th but thank you november 19th already confused enough yeah that is essentially the last wednesday yeah before the second because the next wednesday is um thanks thanksgiving uh november 19th works for me and this would be um i would say a specific the major agenda i would be doing quick updates but it's basically to prepare for conversation about affordable adus and preparation for the meeting with uh dana yeah so i will get that date and the december 2nd date on the challenge calendar thank you um do you want to have another meeting in december no no no okay so i should ask you this do you want to have another meeting so that will take care of our meetings for the rest i should i shouldn't even flip you know i uh whatever you want mary well um and we can always change our mind um and have something after december 2nd but we can at this point we have three well three meetings in the next two months okay and and just to confirm it's okay for me to ask liz russ about this in her second i actually think she'd be good i think she'd be great okay i mean given that this is i think you know i think given that this is a brainstorming set and the point is to get input from anybody who has interested knowledge and i think from dana's point of view the more towns that she can connect with on a given night uh she's happier because she works from nasta i'm sure she has to fill out her forms that say how many communities did you meet with this month so if she can take off an extra community or two uh you know i think it's all a win-win so there's no agenda other than to think through how the new bylaw can be used productively they be used or how do we make it work for a d yeah and uh yeah um are you wish to make announcement um yes yes it's so under traffic it's not we usually anticipated because we signed a pns on our own and we were yesterday and we have an apartment in boston so i have to resign
and resigning from the housing employee too but we're interviewing so it did take me an hour to drive to wait on this one we we moved into the seaport because um kind of has everything we're looking for and we have two dogs so it's not easy to find no like a condo owner who's gonna have to buy a condo we're just renting because we want to make sure we like yeah but you know i we go to belmont a lot so that's kind of that's exciting i know it is exciting i figured if i didn't do it soon i was never going to do it i think it's better when you're younger and it's easier to make friends rather than waiting too late how long have you been with them oh gosh we moved here in 1994. newcomers
it was it's been so fascinating at this point but to sell put our home on the market and and the broker was just acting like it was a negotiation of a used car and i i honestly said you have no idea how emotional this is to me we raised our family there are kids who are in their 20s now and i want someone i want the bedrooms to be filled again but i want someone who will love it as much as i have it doesn't feel like an inanimate object very much um and i will miss this kind of meeting but i told rachel and i'm still doing mass two and one of them still working with friends bosses homeless on their committee so i will keep the you know efforts going on how long have you been in the apartment we've used five cumulative nights there we have a bed and some stools speculative nights how do you that's two hours not consecutive
no we we i'm very untethered if you saw the back of my car it does happen it's an emotional thing yeah it is it is hopefully we'll like it we're really sorry i'm sorry so you've already moved into the apartment kind of because once we staged the house it felt devoid of all personality number one and number two excuse me that would be my way up so and the apartment that what we were looking for came up earlier when when is the closing going to be december 7th oh wow oh supposedly i mean you know i think it could go sideways that's great wow congratulations thanks so she is our representative to the 212 committee okay right um i was saying it's a good hands gene
someone for the housing partnership um so gene is on it um so we could conceivably not not ask to have somebody else or we can um if somebody else is interested staffing the committee is a great idea with people who share your opinion so if you've got a seat don't give it up yeah now brian took the place of um mike's david which is great for from especially from an affordability you know standpoint might have served the most in order of residence right um mike resigned because he's not into the kinds of things that that uh catherine has talked about right he's the constant of construction person and he has said you know i'll be happy to do anything related to that so i suggested that brian do that and he's apparently he's been appointed yes i'm very happy to be i mean he's the one who sort of started all of this yeah and so it seems perfectly appropriate for him to be on it so the question is whether we want to do you know if we want to have another person and you don't have to decide tonight you can think about it and i think in the ideal world as gene says it's great to have another member of our committee i will say i'm i'm not going to volunteer but i would very much support if anybody else wanted to do that okay i think that would be lovely but i don't think it's essential but it would be lovely if somebody wanted to i applied to join the committee and was turned down well i'm a little busy yeah i think we all have to do what we can do how often do you meet once a month or i mean if you've got a lot of meetings a little more than that because we have to report by that yeah you're right the good news is it's an end date of february so does that help well i guess part of my concern is it would be a lot of action oxygen my sense is you've done a lot of learning already i'm starting from a pretty low baseline and you probably are further up but i think i think the best thing is you can already put it out there let people think about whether they can make time they want to volunteer they should do so like it's a worthwhile thing it's a great thing to have but i've got to take this to that activity yeah so i think jackie you have been you you've taken on more responsibility for housing um i don't i don't what i don't have any experience in any of that you know just the public housing again we should just think about it yeah i can do it i think we've like five thousand dollars it's our we will submit um an agenda for um the february i mean the november 12th meeting and maybe we'll just have a few minutes at the end of that meeting uh to see if anybody has made a decision about 12. i don't think we need to do it that normally mary i think my sense is people can email you you know about the 212 within a week i don't think we need anything at the end of the november 12th meeting i think we're all going to want to leave and i'll have a little i and i feel like am i understanding correctly it feels like maybe i'm misunderstood what was the last year did i you're thinking that we were suggesting convening after the event and i'm saying i don't want to do that i don't want i for me that if there's any buzz in the room i want to be there to be available to talk to people and i think people uh this is and this is to me a relatively small question people should come forward and volunteer if they have the time let you know a week from tonight if they have the interest in participating at some point though i think we probably need to to have a vote you have to move pretty quickly it's my impression because we had four meetings all pretty lengthy meetings the other thing i would add is that john thomas who's from the ways of wayland housing authority board of commissioners is also on the advisory committee it's a robust committee it's it's got good representation of people promoting so i i think so i don't think it's the end of the law yeah i think we should just relax but katherine's been there for a while she's there john thomas brian bosh i think we're good yeah and then we're going to have money i think we're good yeah and they're advocates we've got all the advocates i think so um i think we should worry about it like katherine yeah get off it and uh not worry about replacing i think i mean if you want to come from boston to be honest but i wouldn't recommend bring the dogs is there any other business then for tonight tonight not that i can think of it's about age 14 uh so moved is there a second second jackie seconded it all in favor okay so if something comes up
Anybody have additions or corrections? Oh, the only addition, it is relevant. If you care. It is, you know, it means a tweet, really. I know. I was supposed to contact the VOH and the building, and I did.
Oh, the truth. But it was passed. All in favor, we don't even have to roll poll. I'll see you next. Aye. Good day and aye.
So, the 2-12 committee.
Is there a meeting going on? There is a meeting going on. They are. They're 5 to 8 on October 8, and tonight's 5 to 8 too. So, how do you avoid going? I just went from five to seven, but Jean is still there. Oh, I see. Okay, yeah, she was. She didn't know. She didn't know we had a meeting. But part of the reason why they're lengthy is because they've invited a lot of service providers to come speak. And service, I mean, we've tried to expand beyond service providers to include, you know, like SMOC, for example, the Regional Housing Authority, the Area Office of DDS. It's a little harder to get those to come. But the service providers have been so welcome to come and give their time. Tonight, for example, was the Guild for Human Services, Charles River Center, and Minna Bay Mark. It's great. I think it's a little bit slow going because I think the main question is, how do we figure out what population could best be served at that location and fit in well with the community last week? I mean, October 8th, some of the abutters came, understandably, you know, expressing some concern and reservations about what might be built there, especially the scale. Where we're stuck right now is it's a four-acre site. And if you have DDS funding for a group home, you can only build one group home with five units. And why is that? I'm talking about four-acre. Yeah. Because they won't even let you, if you want it to fill in. This is what DPS is? DPS Department of Developmental Services, DDS. With five, what? Five units. So, what for four-acre site? Oh, wow. And what they're saying is, it's just, they feel like, I mean, I shouldn't give my opinion as I'm coming to that. I mean, you know, I hate pleasure in my face. But I think it's so absurd. They don't want to overwhelm the community by having too many units. But, you know, it's like, couldn't you at least do two five units on four-acre so that you could share some amenities, share some staffing? I mean, if it's the population of a group home, which are the five units, which are, you know, clients who have DDS funding, some of them have pretty extensive needs. And you might have nursing staff go by. Both the Guild and Charles River had 24-hour staffing. And so then there become issues around even getting a parking lot where people won't complain about people coming and going for their 11 p.m. shift and headlights going. So there's some real challenges to what I think we can do there based on DDS. Can it be useful? Can you have an alternative use going on? In other words, an affordable... I think you could probably like to, you know, you could subdivide and do something else on two acres. But you can't have them marry each other. We would have to, apparently, we'd have to get a waiver for Charles River to have one on Boston Post Road and one at 212 because you'd have to get an exception. But the CEO of Charles River was optimistic that they wouldn't get an exception because they're deemed pretty different neighborhoods. But that, the one on Boston Post Road is 12? I think it shows 12. Do you remember, Mary? I don't, I don't know. I didn't think it was that thing, but it's on the inventory, but, you know, it is on the inventory, but I don't, I don't have it somewhere. Anyway, it's at least nine. And over time, DDS had said smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. And how big is the lot with the Charles River House? That, it's small. It's right next to Vogue's Theater. The director, she's been the CEO for a long time. And she remembers the meeting in Rayland when they were putting that in. And she said one of the funny things that happened, because they changed their approach to what the houses look like. All these agencies really tried to make them look very residential, like a whole many of us would be in. But she said the one on Boston Post Road, someone pulled in one time and thought it was a bank because it's got the lines for parking and everything. So they tried to make it blend in a little better now. But you know who's speaking right now? Because I think a bunch of us is Andy from Minuteman Art. Oh, nice. And they don't necessarily work with DDS. So his presentation could be interesting because they'll do homes for individuals that may not need 24-hour staffing.
You might have more funding gaps with that kind of model. But it would be interesting to hear his perspective.
And he said, and this isn't really related to 212, but Matt O'Connor is apparently still plugging away to get the local development out. Oh, really? I thought he might have stopped. He and Andy are still working on that, which is great. So anyway, I think 212, the hope is February, early spring, to get a request for proposals out. But I think all this homework will be really worthwhile because we really have to know from the service providers who's willing to work with the town and what would you want to build. And make sure that the RFP is crafted in a way that people are going to want to submit a proposal. You know, I feel like there's been such a sea change around this whole issue and that there's so much more enthusiasm and energy to try to get these projects done. Not just one, but several. So it's really enormously exciting in how well-informed everybody's becoming. Like what you just said about DDS. I mean, stuff we just don't know about. And it's clearly a priority. It's clearly a priority. The working group is really, really good. But several people on there are parents of, I mean, amazing professionals and also parents of children who have disabilities. Yeah. So it's just such an acute need. So I agree. I'm derailed about it. And we were having this conversation 10 years ago. Right. So people are talking about ATUs. Yeah. No, so this is exciting. The energy is there. And I feel like the expertise within the town and outside of the town is there. And hopefully we're going to see some units. Yeah. Hopefully it's going to get stagnant by the federal changes. The concern is that Medicaid, you know, Medicaid could be affected. But Charles River was saying, and I mean, this is their work. So, but she just said, there really hasn't been any indication that you're going to totally cut off funding from DDS and from these populations. So it's too, it's too critical. But someone, yes, that we're going to get a monster in chief. Yeah. So, I mean, this is over the weekend about, you know, special education being taken from the Department of Education to HHS back into a medical model, which took, you know, 45 years ago. We fought like hell to get it out of HHS to get into education to treat kids as having instructional needs, educational needs, and start treating people as if they had the medical technology that needed to be a change of things. Interesting. And now here they are.
But no, focusing on the positive, I totally agree. It's exciting and it will, something will happen there. Yeah. There's too much. And the state, Massachusetts, is that. Yes. The four parts of them. Yes. Yes. I thought you could do a few. Any news? I got, this is the first time ever that I got an unsolicited note of something. It was usually, I mentioned about two days before the meeting. What's happening, Philip? So he said, on Monday, I wanted to send you a quick note that we received some good news from Mass Housing. They have the bond capacity for St. Anne's in the first half of next year, and we're tentatively targeting the construction start of April 1, 2026, pending the issue of conservation being resolved. We're meeting with Mass Housing early next week, and I can let you know if there's any additional updates from them. So this means that the bulk of the financing, Mass Housing, you know, has the bonds, and the bonds are used to actually build the buildings. So the fact that the bond capacity is there, and this issue with conservation, I, you know, the minutes are about as clear or unclear as I have. And I wrote to Linda Hansen saying, and this may not be appropriate, I may be rubbing my nose into something that, you know, something very apologetic, but could you please get this agreement done? Now, please figure out how to make this happen. The party seems to want to move forward. Can you do a meeting? She never wrote back to me. Oh, she didn't. I don't think so. I'd have to go back and check my notes, but I do not have any recollection. And I did it right after the last meeting, and I don't think she wrote back to me. So I, you know, I just hope they can figure out. I don't understand the sticking point. I'm not going to try to even understand it. Most I just want to get resolved, because they are ready to go. So did you, were you able to find out anything from Sean? Sean said that there, he deferred to Linda. He said Linda had been very patient, and she hadn't gotten information from Phillip. I, Linda, she said there's been a complete lack, lack of responsiveness from him. From, apparently there was. From the developer or from Linda.
I can't wrap him up, because he's very responsive. I mean, the whole place, you know, that whole organization, that place is an exceeding professional, complex, great reputation. Welcome back from New Hampshire. I'm glad you're back. So I, I didn't know about a new truck, so it was like, why are we doing this right now? Can't we do this on the weekend? I will, I'll follow up with Sean again. But I, I think you're saying that the good news is, I think, is that the breaking ground of the St. Anne's development is slated for April 1, 2026. So that would, hey, you're going to have to come back for that. I will, 100%. And we're going to have to get father of a beer here. But every time I write him a note, say, hi, father of a beer. We've got tax credits, we'll go back in every year. How do you think that site will have date? Well, this is because, this is based on their funding. So, you know, the developer gets new news that they've got the bond capacity from the state to, to move forward. So they just picked the date of construction starting April 1. I think maybe April 10 and maybe May 1, but they're aiming for the spring. Do you think that we should write a letter to, I mean, I have, I have, you know, asked many times about appointing Gene, no action.
I think that's very good. I, I, I'm glad for anybody else who wants to write that letter to do with me. I mean, usually I take on doing that. I am, as Captain knows, this ADU forum has devoured me. I mean, it seems like it's ridiculous that it has devoured me, but it has devoured me. So I am not writing any more letters. Well, I did write an op-ed for the West Telegram. And it's like, on Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Oh, good. Did you? Oh, yeah, look it up. It's a few, a few weeks ago. Yeah. You mentioned R.O.K. So I, I'm happy for anybody else to do it. And I can't explain, I don't understand the issue between, you know, whatever's in the minutes is what is in the minutes, but I don't, I don't understand it. But do you want me to take a crack at it and understand what he's doing? I'm just going to look at, look at you. Um, but we have been without a conservation representative for years. Yeah. I don't remember when, um, Joanne Barnett and Chris Harland, um, both, both finished their terms at the same time. Um, and that's been several years. Several years. I, I don't know. So, I mean, it's, that, that is a fact. We have been without a conservation commission member. And Jean is up in front of us. And St. Anne's is really, it's crazy. And they, you know, they've got the tax credits, they've got the bond financing, they've got plans, and we don't want to lose it to them. No, no, we don't. See what? I can't. I'm sorry, you said they have the what? And the bond financing? The tax credits. Oh. The tax credits. Yeah, it's so competitive to get that. Well, it took us, it took us a few rounds before. We knew it would take a few rounds. And is that, how federal is that? I mean, very federal. It is very federal. But the interesting thing about tax credits is there's no appropriation for tax credits. Right. It goes as a back-end subsidy through the Treasury Department. So, it's tax write-offs that wealthy investors or wealthy court institutions buy these tax credits. So, Russell Law can't pluck it off. So, it's not, it's not a line item in the budget. Like, like, like the, you know, public housing rehab and, you know, operations. Let me, for a second. Is that Boston? Yeah. Yeah. So, the good news is the tax credit is sort of hidden because it is this back-end subsidy. People like me hate back-end subsidies because we like it appropriated, spent, used, but it's a cheaper way to do it, a more efficient way to do it. But, right now, I think it's an odd benefit that it's a hidden subsidy. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It could still get attacked. Yeah. Don't, don't, the, the, the, the. Oh, yeah. Anything could be it. And it could still, it could still, so, until that book is under construction and, you know, all the contracts are signed. It could be under construction and they could stop if they've done that. Yeah. In other things, like with the wind power. Do we know, though, if the common issue is related to the neighbors, something that they raised? I, I'm not aware of this. I haven't heard anything about neighbors. It has to do with wetlands, distance of. It's the state's interpretation versus the town's interpretations or something. Yeah. That's what the minutes say, but, honestly, I don't know. Well, I'm assuming it has to do with, you know, either streams or wetlands. One of those things, which is the, you know, the difference between a notice of condition or an order condition, you know, superseding is that they, in their standards.
Uh, so I don't know.
I, I mean, a letter is fine. I mean, maybe a letter that we write and that we send in with the select board, maybe get them to co-sign it or a town manager, you know, I think we should CC Michael McCall on money for sure. You know, there's just no pressure points that we can put on people easily in our form of government that, you know, says to the department head, you need to get this result. Yeah. You know, as opposed to everybody acting as their own little, yeah. Uh, okay. Why don't we, you can CC Michael McCall and McCall and, uh, we're sorry. Thank you. Yeah. Great. I don't know that there's anything that we can do to help or facilitate. We've tried. You know, I'm wondering. If we can say, is there anything that we can do, I think I, I, I have to go back to my email, you know, please let me know, uh, you know, can we have them have a meeting? They seem to be able to have a face to face meeting, you know, like, I mean, certainly the letter should be there for the town with the 10% board. Yeah. I mean, so they should be thinking as a whole. Right.
And you may, you may not, you may be right, you may, you may be implicit what you say in the letter, but Big Fall obviously gets it. Well, so there's some good news and complicated news and maybe get to the bottom of it. But back to you guys. How did you start? No, I don't think you're going to be going to be, Rachel has been hearing about pulling all these little pieces together with players, inversions, and we've had, I don't know how many, also, um, you know, it's been, we started with the agenda that you all saw last time. Right. And I think it was sent out. So we do have the agenda of the program. Yeah. Now, was panel D still on it when you got that for the panel? I think so. Okay. That was said after the last meeting. It was the one, AAUD's panel, panel B. I just said update panel C. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So, um, one of, just to back up, uh, Kathy and I have met, I don't remember when we last talked about this, Kathy and I met with this, uh, planning board, and I, that, that was since the last, before the last, anyway, Robin Bolts that has been the liaison from the planning board, she's been very, very helpful in every way in, in working as a team. What's your name? Robin. Robin, the woman. Oh, okay. B-O-R-G-E. Okay. S-T-E-T-T. Turns out she and I have the same admissions. R-G-T. Not R-P-G. R-G-T. Do you have a copy of... I do. So this is, so that is her name is on there. Yeah. That is basically the agenda, the format of the meeting. Um, we made a decision, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to have a separate conversation about the affordable dwelling units, accessory dwelling units. Okay. It was originally going to be the last of four panels. And we realized collectively, and we also realized, um, I, we were thinking of having a guest speaker for that last panel. The guest speaker is a former student of mine. Her name is Dana Luenta. She is now at Mass House in Partnership. She's kind of, uh, I won't say a, she's always been something of a superstar. But she is well positioned within the state. Not only with Mass House in partnership, but working with the executive office, it has in the communities. She's, uh, she's a player in the, in the, uh, ATU and the AAD. She's a very smart person, and the more I talked to her on the phone, she said, look, Rachel, I will come to your meeting as a favor. And to hear that's like, let me think about this. But I think we'd do better if we had a separate meeting when we could really brainstorm together, where I can hear more about what Wayland's because her job is public and community engagement. That's her title. She's one of the senior, uh, people at Mass House in Partnership. It's weird that you're, you're students and have the senior people in there. She doesn't run the organization, but, anyway. Uh, Mark Drayson. I mean, he was not my student, but, he just is retiring from the MAPC. It's like all these people who look like little people who look like girls. Retiring, what do you say about that? Um, so Dana was very willing to come, but when I stopped to think about it, we have 20 minutes set aside at the end of the evening, I'm going to come Dana out of her home, you know, at 8 o'clock to 8.15 to come for 15 minutes. That is not making good use of this one this time. So, uh, I talked to Kathy and then, you know, shared with Robin and I agree. It made a lot more sense. And we very quickly got another date, which was, I think, a good thing because we now know that is going to happen in December as a brainstorming session. So, a lot of people who would be at the meeting are not going to come to this, but people who really want to dig in and talk about how we make AADUs out of this opportunity will be there, and Dana will be there to help me. So, that's affordable AADUs? That's, right. That's a separate meeting. So, the affordable AADUs will be mentioned. They will be referred to, but they will be referred to as a separate issue that will take a lot of additional thought, conversation, and this thought of conversation going on in town, as well as across the state. And here, we have Dana Winta, who represents the state, who's grappling with this issue, and it's very central to the issue. May I have the date? Yes. Didn't she offer you a date? I do have the date. 12, 12. No. You said December or 12? No, that, it's December. It's December, early December. It's a 12-20. Robert couldn't make another date, but we very quickly nailed down December 2nd at 7 o'clock. So, that's... 7 a.m. So, it will be roughly a 7 to 8 or 8.30 time, but it will be all devoted to this. All the Dana kind of being featured as the key person. Well, it's great to do it after we have this discussion about all the issues. Yeah. So, it all of a sudden... It gives this opportunity to weigh in and to be, you know, brainstorming. Yeah. And that's the point of it. Not 15 minutes, but... Right. The point of it is to do some work and to see if we can come up with some ideas for what might make sense at the state level. I mean, I started to think, well, could you count each ADU as a half unit instead of a whole unit toward the inventory? You know, like, would that happen? Because I know the Select Board and Planning Board are very conscious about every ADU unit requires more affordable housing. So, if you can count each ADU in a different way, might that help? Or is there a way to hold harmless? You know, you have 10 ADUs and you don't have to... You know, you might comply with the SHI unit. I mean, they're just ways to think creatively about how it becomes a possible without making it more of a burden for towns to forget. Just a quick aside. Do you want me to reserve that date with Jalen? Please. Ben. Thank you. I'm sorry to reserve that date what? With the town, so we have... So we have a little here. Yeah. Okay. Won't be our monthly meeting, but... It probably won't be, but... Yeah, because that's early December. Yeah. So that is a big change. There have been some changes in the guest speakers. Julia... Oh, let's see. This week I met with... Monday night I met with the Select Board and the Board of Health by Zoom. I made a presentation to each about the upcoming forum, requesting their sponsorship. I was asked what does co-sponsorship mean. I said, truly, at this point, it just means lending your name to this to show town-wide support for an important initiative where we're trying to inform residents about what's going on as a public service. So I said, I don't like to use the word rubber stamp, but we are really just seeking your engagement as a supporter of this effort. And that was Select Board and what was the event? Board of Health. And we got unanimous votes from both. Julia Younghands, who wasn't able to commit, she's the... After the Board of Health meeting, she said she would be willing to serve on the panel. And she wrote to me tonight saying several of the lovely people from the attendance. So one person who dropped out of the panel shift, well, there are actually two. One is Rob LaRue, the assessor, who does not want to get into any details about what the property tax implications will be. So Robin, here was a great move by Robin, who picked up the phone today. Because we just heard on Monday. Rob had been confirmed. He had confirmed a month ago that he or somebody from his office would appear. On Monday, he wrote me a very terse note saying, neither I nor anyone who will be on this will be participating. Without any explanation. That's right. And I wrote back and I said, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's very disappointing. Would you mind not asking, you know? And he clearly didn't mind by asking for any reason. But that actually doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's kind of a burning issue for property taxes. But he doesn't want to get pinned down. He doesn't want to get pinned down. Okay. Well, yes, don't pin it down. But in any case, Robin talked to him and left. She wrote Kathy and Mia, though, because we're like this little threesome chatting all day and all night. Sometimes it's interesting what times these emails go in. My daughter, you know, my daughter is a corporate lawyer, as you know. When she worked for a firm, she would say, let the attorneys wait up until 3 a.m. to send it out so that they can do this. Let them know that they've been working on it for three hours or four hours. So they send it out at 3 a.m. She doesn't work for that company anymore. Anyway. Wake up. I thought it was funny when I see Kathy's emails coming in at all hours. Kathy's building a pitch irate. We all are Kathy. We all are Kathy. So I suggest that right now that panel C, which is, what is panel C? It is the septic. The septic rules capacity and implications. Oh, no. Penalty. Yeah. Construction process. We're not going to have any hard anticipated costs. It's all going to be fluid. It's, um, Nathan, uh, from the building commission also does not want to be on the panel. They don't want to feel pinned down to what this could cost. Nobody's, nobody's asking me to sign on the dotted line. They don't want to get cornered into estimates that, so me that he, you know, LaRue, is going to participate, but Miltinsky said he would be there to answer questions. Okay. It's other divisions. Is he the commissioner? Yes. Okay. So, uh, we've got, um, oh, so, because, uh, LaRue can't, uh, be on that panel, because it's only Robert now on that panel. I asked Robin if she would be on that panel, because she now knows probably more about it, because she talked to Rob, and she seems to know as much as anybody about it, about talking around the property tax issues. It's just talking around. You know your property taxes. Right. And you know what the questions are, whether it's a, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a person that detects you. Oh, Rob is also beyond that. Yes. Rob. Robin. Robin, not Rob. Robin, who's at the planet. The planet board. But, but how about Robert Hummel? He's already, yeah. Oh, Robert's over there. Right now, Robert is only, the only main speaker on that panel. I see. It was supposed to be Rob. I see. So, now, at the moment, it's only Robert. So, if you had some support from Robin, as a back and forth, I think it would be very good. Okay. So, I asked Rob, you know, to, and I haven't heard back from her yet, but I'm assuming she'll say yes. So, in another business, I asked Robert Hummel, because we're supposed to be giving out handouts from the steps of how you go about doing an ADU. And I asked Robert for his handout, and I asked him for the handout that the building commissioner is putting together. So, we got the handouts from them. And, over the last two days, Kathy, Robin, and I have worked on those handouts, because they are not yet good handouts. Is that a bad way to say it? They needed proof. They needed proof. They needed proof. In the interest of brevity, they were somewhat. I think Robin put it well. Can it both be too brief and too complicated? I don't know. At the same time. So, we've given them very precise edits about how to change them. I sent them back to Robert today. So, here we are. It's the 22nd. They've got plenty of time to take those edits and to make it better. I said, if you want to talk to us or sit down with us, we'd be happy to go through it with you. Hopefully, so here's the suggested edits memo that just went out. Wow. So, the handouts were planning board and building? So, there are two handouts. One is, this is the planning board's handout, what it looks like. It was sort of dense with information. A lot of scrunched up stuff. Very hard, in my opinion. Like, if one of my students was submitting this as their term project, it would not apply. Because it's not a welcoming document. You could say, well, I'm not going to see much information. I said, it needs to be at least two pages. You know, front and back. Something. Well, you've got a lot more air. And then the building commissioner document is here. And it's, it's not a bad starting point. But it's not complete enough. It doesn't have. That looks a lot easier to read. It doesn't have URLs. It's a checklist. It's a checklist, but it doesn't often say where to get the forms for the checklist. It doesn't say what the heck it is. And I could read you one thing from it that Kathy and I, I think both, huh? What is this? I mean, people are going to need handbooks. Yeah. But at least every form should be as accessible. Totally. I mean, I think they're fine. You have to be consistent with each other. So you definitely should know what we're trying to do. So prepare for building permit application. Stretch energy code compliance form. What? Without any hyperlink, without any URL, without any explanation of what that is. Where is compensation at the day of the HIC CSL license or exemption form? I had to look that up, so. I didn't love looking up all my questions. For any kind of document, or convenient contractor instruction, there's also a way to get that form and what is that form? It's very exciting. So while it's not a bad beginning, it's not that helpful for a lay person who's just like, what is this mean? And then throws it down and just says I don't want to bother you. Exactly. H1. The Office of Consumer Affairs or whatever the HIC. So this is the document that was sent out today. hxc so this is the document that's going to send out today giving feedback this is what you need to do in our opinion that they may you know not be happy with that but the good news was we worked really well with robin it's not that i'm not that it's fine but now she was in the next one to work totally totally i'm so glad that she's uh part of the script because she's catching things kathy's catching things brain dead and just trying to get it all back but it sounds like she then she would be a good person yeah i think i i'm hoping she'll say sure you know she'll sit in and do what she can to uh and it sounds like she speaks english as well she's a very smart and very capable person yeah no i mean it's important to have people who speak so they can be understood like we're lucky that you know when kathy and i made the presentation to the planning board that it was clear she was they were interested enough to actually assign somebody to the other co-worker and she has been a co-worker good so it's it's been very uh productive and satisfying is and that's still chair of the planet well jennifer steel had been the chair yeah and she stepped down jennifer's not even on the planning board she's not on the planning board she's not oh she's not i didn't see her i think yeah i think she's retired so janitor had been very very very good and now annette is of course just being frustrated so um so and and annette did raise the question about i said it's to get it moving to want to do see how people want to use this new state law make them understand their options opportunities if it's good for them not good for them and we have to keep working on them well so pleased you guys have done that much work we're so lucky as a town to have you guys doing this because there are so many people in other towns that would just be going if you have if you can't go into your building department and get it you know here's how well i wouldn't i would be the first to drop that hot potato well hopefully we'll get that building department to produce a document that will be readily accessible but do so both doing that and publicizing and doing this form i think it's just great just great well then rachel had also a piece with them with the call post oh yes i i did that i do do one or two other things in my family's occasionally yes so uh today i submitted in order to get a uh an article into the wayland post prior to the november 12th meeting it has to be submitted by the strike because it's a two week span from submission to publication and two weeks gives us whatever date but it's it's a week and a half before our meeting but that was the day that i had to get it so we i had to tweak it a lot because i didn't know who the guest speakers was it going to be rob was it going to be julia you know and that came down to the wire getting who's in who's that i don't like i don't like to be bulls in advertising so i had to make sure i had the right view so yes i read i wrote a an article based on all the other all the documents and whatever and kathy and robin approved it and that went in today on friday however it's longer than their word limit i do one thing that said they wanted 250 words another thing she said was 460 words my piece is 660 words because that's what my piece is so that's what my piece is and it's like and you know i don't i don't want to brag but it's a good piece
i have self-credit plagiarized myself every possible place i put it on every other document and it turned out kathy's a good piece right yeah so whether they will they accept it i don't know maybe i assume they can edit it down i could edit it i could edit it down but i'd rather not because when you write it you've got new words in james
in addition to the post i'm wondering about a little blurb for the town managers a newsletter and that is always due to friday before the beginning of the next month so that's sort of like halloween is that also that is not only sort of like halloween that is so i could send that into into jalen okay and ask her if if she could include that okay this is in the um it can't be 670 words you know what i have to have to take one order from every paragraph you know wait when every word is a gem and you massage it and you care about it you know as an academic every word is another raised you know in your pocketbook right yeah well i guess it's a different view from an attorney i'm joking i think we're not brief exactly they're not all gems believe me no i i i i tend to be a word writer i know that's great i thought i would see if we could get it in the coa newsletter okay so so jalen gets the michael michael mccall's newsletter yep yep and would it be the same blurb as goes in michael mccall's or would it be different from the coa um well it might it might be a little different in that you know as a senior you might yeah and maybe gene would okay so so this should go who should this for the senior uh well i i'll i'll send an email tomorrow to julie okay to see if if we can do that uh so i wouldn't start anything tonight well mostly i'm not starting anything mostly it's right here i will do another paragraph as a senior myself who would not get who is not interested in an ATU however i can tell you all the reasons why you're not in control so i'll check with her and find out who it goes to and okay are there any other i guess this wouldn't be of interest like to them it's possible there are other cities and towns but i think it's possible i mean it can't hurt to try just because so many towns yeah where i would guess we're ahead of where a lot of other towns are yeah we haven't been in touch with liz rust oh well um should we at least be in touch with her yeah to you yeah yeah oh i'll ask her and um you know christina can walk so i i can send um i can send this out to you this is the okay this is what went to the web and post today and i can send you want to send it to all i'll send it to all yes that would be great and i will and then you'll have it as you'll have it you could send it to julie and you could say you could target it a little bit more for seniors okay okay but this is the basic information please does that mention the december 2nd one oh good okay perfect because liz might hear more about it it does that's at the end
do you want to answer that as a handout no no no no because this is just describing what the the 18 bible is it's all going to be discussed at the point it says who the guest speakers are going to be what we're going to be talking about so it's it's it's a pr piece for in advance uh it i don't think it's necessary okay but uh it's a it's a template for um advertising now is there anything that the rest of this can do at this point i think honestly i'm hoping that things are pretty much set at this point once we get the handouts in shape that they need to be in and they not only have to be handouts but they have to be on the websites posted properly and easily accessible and understood um but i'm hoping that the work we're doing with the handouts will enable them to clean up their websites and make sure that the website is extremely user-friendly and understandable and uh so i don't think you know i i'd love to have more help but i'm beyond help i think it's nice i have to help the help is going to come into 12 to date in terms of people being prepared for even just prepared for discussion or brainstorming i mean i think that's what it is i don't think this woman is coming in um being coming in to talk at us i think it really is an idea or conversation yeah and i think this is where people can especially this committee thinking about credibility because that's what it's about yeah who who will be on the panel from the panel from the committee but the thing i'm not i'm not on kathy's on committee i'm going to be on the 12th i'm going to be the minimum i'm going to be the minimal moderator a meeting i will convene to the committee explain this in panel okay and kathy who the kathy
this is penalty not c is on is off the table oh so we'll only because eight is the separate that was the affordable so it's a b and c i'm sorry i don't have it in front of me all right so these are only basically half hour panels yeah so if we have you can't really have more than two or three people at any different and i am simply welcome people close it at the end and uh q a if there's okay q a if we have i'm i i'm feeling like maybe my remark should say you know each of the people would like to speak and then they'll pause for a few minutes and then um if you have questions so i think it should be within the 30 minutes i don't think it should be stuck at minute 28 but right um but i think we get a conversation going and get them to ask questions as early as possible so i'll try to kind of give a framework that let everybody on the panel say a few words and then uh let's go with questions and answers and there's going to be some stuff that is not necessarily that clear one of the things that came up in the the handouts was sort of like you know fixating on a single-family home it's not limited to a single-family home it's talking about in single-family home districts so anywhere there's a single anywhere there's a home in a principal dwelling in a single-family home district then you're open to you were right to have an adu so it's like where the emphasis is and and that's not what they were doing in their stuff and they also had stuff like um just sort of i'm telling what i'm dealing with um a couple of things where they they just were off in terms of the way they loaded oh prohibited what was prohibited what do you know what the room is going to be in it's going to be in the senior center yeah yeah like owner-occupied occupancy not required by the new law it's not just not required it's prohibited so it makes a difference so it's sort of again how you look at something it's i mean you don't want the town you know but this is from the town saying not required wait a minute and so again it's the kind of thing where you want to do an adu and so you want to you don't want this person to come into your adu so you're going to say oh well we're going to have those owner-occupied ones you're going to use you all about you know family members stuff to discriminate well no you can't do that you know but we're going to make it real clear in terms of what the rules are you know so kathy did a great job just just as i was focusing on the dotting the closing the t's and i think the highest kathy was finding money was separate by the entrance required no no or though an entrance shared right they can give in your door if that's what you want yeah that's what you want yeah but this is from the law i know but it's that kind of yeah that was misleading it was and then there i don't know so anyway so hopefully we won't have any contention
so the panels will be in the same place so i don't think they'll be here i think the issues will come around there's some fraternity general opinions that are coming out now that are taking us beyond for example it's not limited to a single family home that they're saying you can have a multi-family unit well yeah that's not what they said either and so but but this was really an opinion that came out in april now it doesn't mean that i don't know if they've appealed or not to find that out but again it's that type of thing where there may be some give and take here and there may not be absolute you know clarity in terms of the innocence but it's so fun i mean at least people will be thinking and have the issues you know clearly put out your father and the and part of it i'm sure is we want them to do it and the planning board is i mean that's work well that's and it's also good that's why it's been so good to have robin with us because robin you're an attorney and she's approved these changes so of course she's on the planning board and she's the representative so we're on the same page so i know this is excellent so now we're not doing this this is a lot of detail that we gave them yeah about redoing their candidates and web pages is it you know it's two and a half pages of do this do this do this don't do that let's see let's see where it goes so but hopefully and then one of the other things came up with the planning board when we did the presentation before or seeking their support was that they really um spoke to the fact of not having individuals like an architect or somebody in town contractor on the panels because somebody who might be seen as promoting their own work and we yielded to that and we did we yielded to that so that's why people in the school might have come up with ideas instead of names um that they thought should have been on it that's why they aren't talking about and we didn't even each other and we just immediately officially that when that had felt she said made her uncomfortable said okay fine yeah no they don't need to be highlighted
um so anything else about so we have this meeting on november 12th we have the second one on december 2nd do you want another do you want us to meet before the december 2nd we should okay
december 2nd is a planning meeting with somebody about affordable adus and affordable adus are not going to be part of november 12th right okay okay i propose november 19th but thank you november 19th already confused enough yeah that is essentially the last wednesday yeah before the second because the next wednesday is um thanks thanksgiving uh november 19th works for me and this would be um i would say a specific the major agenda i would be doing quick updates but it's basically to prepare for conversation about affordable adus and preparation for the meeting with uh dana yeah so i will get that date and the december 2nd date on the challenge calendar thank you um do you want to have another meeting in december no no no okay so i should ask you this do you want to have another meeting so that will take care of our meetings for the rest i should i shouldn't even flip you know i uh whatever you want mary well um and we can always change our mind um and have something after december 2nd but we can at this point we have three well three meetings in the next two months okay and and just to confirm it's okay for me to ask liz russ about this in her second i actually think she'd be good i think she'd be great okay i mean given that this is i think you know i think given that this is a brainstorming set and the point is to get input from anybody who has interested knowledge and i think from dana's point of view the more towns that she can connect with on a given night uh she's happier because she works from nasta i'm sure she has to fill out her forms that say how many communities did you meet with this month so if she can take off an extra community or two uh you know i think it's all a win-win so there's no agenda other than to think through how the new bylaw can be used productively they be used or how do we make it work for a d yeah and uh yeah um are you wish to make announcement um yes yes it's so under traffic it's not we usually anticipated because we signed a pns on our own and we were yesterday and we have an apartment in boston so i have to resign
and resigning from the housing employee too but we're interviewing so it did take me an hour to drive to wait on this one we we moved into the seaport because um kind of has everything we're looking for and we have two dogs so it's not easy to find no like a condo owner who's gonna have to buy a condo we're just renting because we want to make sure we like yeah but you know i we go to belmont a lot so that's kind of that's exciting i know it is exciting i figured if i didn't do it soon i was never going to do it i think it's better when you're younger and it's easier to make friends rather than waiting too late how long have you been with them oh gosh we moved here in 1994. newcomers
it was it's been so fascinating at this point but to sell put our home on the market and and the broker was just acting like it was a negotiation of a used car and i i honestly said you have no idea how emotional this is to me we raised our family there are kids who are in their 20s now and i want someone i want the bedrooms to be filled again but i want someone who will love it as much as i have it doesn't feel like an inanimate object very much um and i will miss this kind of meeting but i told rachel and i'm still doing mass two and one of them still working with friends bosses homeless on their committee so i will keep the you know efforts going on how long have you been in the apartment we've used five cumulative nights there we have a bed and some stools speculative nights how do you that's two hours not consecutive
no we we i'm very untethered if you saw the back of my car it does happen it's an emotional thing yeah it is it is hopefully we'll like it we're really sorry i'm sorry so you've already moved into the apartment kind of because once we staged the house it felt devoid of all personality number one and number two excuse me that would be my way up so and the apartment that what we were looking for came up earlier when when is the closing going to be december 7th oh wow oh supposedly i mean you know i think it could go sideways that's great wow congratulations thanks so she is our representative to the 212 committee okay right um i was saying it's a good hands gene
someone for the housing partnership um so gene is on it um so we could conceivably not not ask to have somebody else or we can um if somebody else is interested staffing the committee is a great idea with people who share your opinion so if you've got a seat don't give it up yeah now brian took the place of um mike's david which is great for from especially from an affordability you know standpoint might have served the most in order of residence right um mike resigned because he's not into the kinds of things that that uh catherine has talked about right he's the constant of construction person and he has said you know i'll be happy to do anything related to that so i suggested that brian do that and he's apparently he's been appointed yes i'm very happy to be i mean he's the one who sort of started all of this yeah and so it seems perfectly appropriate for him to be on it so the question is whether we want to do you know if we want to have another person and you don't have to decide tonight you can think about it and i think in the ideal world as gene says it's great to have another member of our committee i will say i'm i'm not going to volunteer but i would very much support if anybody else wanted to do that okay i think that would be lovely but i don't think it's essential but it would be lovely if somebody wanted to i applied to join the committee and was turned down well i'm a little busy yeah i think we all have to do what we can do how often do you meet once a month or i mean if you've got a lot of meetings a little more than that because we have to report by that yeah you're right the good news is it's an end date of february so does that help well i guess part of my concern is it would be a lot of action oxygen my sense is you've done a lot of learning already i'm starting from a pretty low baseline and you probably are further up but i think i think the best thing is you can already put it out there let people think about whether they can make time they want to volunteer they should do so like it's a worthwhile thing it's a great thing to have but i've got to take this to that activity yeah so i think jackie you have been you you've taken on more responsibility for housing um i don't i don't what i don't have any experience in any of that you know just the public housing again we should just think about it yeah i can do it i think we've like five thousand dollars it's our we will submit um an agenda for um the february i mean the november 12th meeting and maybe we'll just have a few minutes at the end of that meeting uh to see if anybody has made a decision about 12. i don't think we need to do it that normally mary i think my sense is people can email you you know about the 212 within a week i don't think we need anything at the end of the november 12th meeting i think we're all going to want to leave and i'll have a little i and i feel like am i understanding correctly it feels like maybe i'm misunderstood what was the last year did i you're thinking that we were suggesting convening after the event and i'm saying i don't want to do that i don't want i for me that if there's any buzz in the room i want to be there to be available to talk to people and i think people uh this is and this is to me a relatively small question people should come forward and volunteer if they have the time let you know a week from tonight if they have the interest in participating at some point though i think we probably need to to have a vote you have to move pretty quickly it's my impression because we had four meetings all pretty lengthy meetings the other thing i would add is that john thomas who's from the ways of wayland housing authority board of commissioners is also on the advisory committee it's a robust committee it's it's got good representation of people promoting so i i think so i don't think it's the end of the law yeah i think we should just relax but katherine's been there for a while she's there john thomas brian bosh i think we're good yeah and then we're going to have money i think we're good yeah and they're advocates we've got all the advocates i think so um i think we should worry about it like katherine yeah get off it and uh not worry about replacing i think i mean if you want to come from boston to be honest but i wouldn't recommend bring the dogs is there any other business then for tonight tonight not that i can think of it's about age 14 uh so moved is there a second second jackie seconded it all in favor okay so if something comes up