November 19, 2025 – Planning Board – Video & Transcript
November 19, 2025 - Planning Board
I'm calling the planning board meeting to order on Wednesday, November the 19th, 2025.
It's 745.
We're starting late, unfortunately, for lack of a quorum.
I'm going to take roll call.
Robin Burtzid?
Here.
Annette Lewis here.
Ira Montague?
Here.
Larry Kiernan here or not?
Oh, yeah.
Well, we have a quorum of three anyway.
And we have our associate member president.
Yes, I'm sorry, our associate member Nick Meckenbach, but he isn't able to vote on any of the matters in front of us this evening.
He can only vote on special permits, but he can ask questions.
I'm going to go over the agenda briefly and then tell you how we'll proceed this evening. I'll do a very quick public comment, very quick, for matters not on the agenda. Then I will open the hearing on Setta Wood Lane, 2505, and then I will recess that hearing to be reconvened after the next item, which is PB2503, continued public hearing on 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School Site Plan approval. And we had on the agenda to discuss ground-mounted solar and energy storage systems, but the member who was supposed to be doing that told us today that he wasn't coming. Then we have updates from the town planner, board comments and concerns, and then matters not reasonably anticipated by the chair 48 hours in advance of the meeting. Who knows what's going to happen tonight? So Larry's here too. Larry, can you say that you're here, please? Present. Thank you. Thank you. So we, I'm going to open the hearing on Setta Wood Lane, which is PB2505, 3, 5, and 7, Setta Wood Lane. It's an application for an amendment to the previously issued May 13, 2025, amended definitive subdivision approval for 13 Cherena Road. That matter was PB2407, to modify the location of the water main. I know that in the audience, Ms. Setta Wood is here, and I explained to her previously before the meeting opened how I would handle this evening, so she's prepared for that. So I'd like a motion to continue or recess 2505 until 7, 45, 8, 45, 9, until 9 p.m. So I move that we continue to, that we recess on application 2505, Setta Wood, until 9 p.m. Is there a second? I'll do. All in favor, Robin? Yes. Ira? Yes. Ira? Yes. Annette, yes. Okay, moving on. It's, we're going to be discussing continued public hearing on PB2503, 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School Site Plan approval. Um, I'm not sure how the applicant wants to proceed, um, and I will turn it over to them first, if, if they have a presentation that they want to make. Will they be able, do they need this microphone up there, if they're going to talk for us? Oh, sure.
That's fine.
Feel free. Okay, you're going to, is it possible for us to control? Do you have, like, a, it just might be easier, just especially for your, that's what I was trying to see if I could log on to. Yeah, if you have it, that's, that's fantastic.
Very good. We'll jump right in, um, Carrie DeLeo, school or consulting group with the owner's project manager for the project. Um, our goals tonight are to just bring the board and the public up to speed on what we have done since you last saw us. The last time you all, we were all together was public hearing, um, or sorry, public comment period, um, and so since then, um, so that people can see the, um, so since we, we have the public comment meeting, um, on the 29th of October, we did submit, um, a response to the, many of the questions that we had been given, not only from the neighbors, but also from the town, from, uh, local, uh, both planning, police, fire, um, et cetera, uh, from both the town of Whalen and the town of Lincoln. Um, we also, uh, have since had some correspondence directly. The school has had some direct correspondence with neighbors about some of these items. Um, we received the, the responses from ECT and we were able to respond back to them. So that is back into the town as of today. Um, and I believe ECT is in receipt. Um, the, what we're going to do today is not really get into the meat of what those are because obviously ECT will need to re re review, but we wanted to just highlight what we heard from those comments and what we are doing or have done to respond. So there were, uh, some requests in there from, for some additional traffic counts and tabulations. Uh, those counts have been completed, but they are being, uh, reviewed by the traffic engineer at, at the moment, um, and it should be, should be done well in advance of our next hearing. Uh, there was also a request to do some additional test pits on campus, uh, in the locations where the stormwater detention was, was located. Uh, we received comments back from board of health and we're able to do a resubmission to them to address their comments. Again, those went in today, um, and, and hopefully that will resolve, uh, any of the comments there that went in with a revised set of plans that will also be submitted back to this group. Uh, and then again, today, what we're hoping to cover with you is, um, where we did the additional traffic study review, the process for what we envisioned the dismissal protocol might look like on, on the site, uh, review landscaping, lighting design, and then start the conversation around conditions of approval, really, uh, in the sense of regrouping on what was approved and the types of things that were part of that decision in 2016 and the types of things that we would expect to be part of this decision.
Okay. So again, highlights. So from traffic, we did do additional counts, uh, at the intersection of 117 and Lincoln Road. Uh, there was a request that, uh, when we had submitted previously, we submitted the peak hours of, uh, peak flow on Waltham Road. We added a third piece, which would be school dismissal time. And those calculations will be in the revised response. Um, and then there was also a request that we, we locate, um, some, any additional crash data that might be available from the Wayland and police, uh, Lincoln police.
We've heard from both. Was there a question? Okay. We've heard from both, but we don't, we have information from one time, not the other, we're, we're working, um, but we have made contact with both and, and that is being assembled. Um, from a stormwater perspective, uh, we did do additional test pits out, uh, in the front of the school, uh, in locations where detention was proposed. And then there was some, uh, feedback, I think actually directly from, um, the conservation commission, uh, about some storm runoff that is happening in existing condition that they wanted to make sure we address. So both of those have been, um, received and are in review. And then board of health, uh, they asked for some existing conditions, um, reports on, on some manholes that exist on campus right now. And then they also asked if we could separate, um, the flow into two, uh, two tanks for the fish center and the new building, even though they have a combined leaching field.
So again, just wanted to highlight, this is the graphic we showed you before the blue being what had already been studied. The yellow here is, is pointing towards the intersection that was added. Um, again, we added that additional dismissal peak time, uh, on Waltham Road, which we identified as two 30 to three 30 in the afternoon. The crash data, uh, request. Um, and then the other thing we did was we dove a little bit deeper into the dismissal process at the Lincoln campus. So again, a reminder, the school has a similar, uh, population of students at Lincoln and a similar dismissal process that we would propose. So we wanted to understand not only what we were thinking, but how do Carol parents and Carol students actually participate in this activity, um, as well as the oversight that goes along with that. So we'll run, we'll run through that as well.
The additional peak time analysis, um, was evaluated, you know, that two 30 to three 30 period of time, it does increase flow. What was found is that, um, that flow will raise the, the flow on Waltham Road during that time, but it's still a less, uh, less of a burden on the, on the road than it is at the normal kind of commuter time of four 30 to five 30. Um, the morning, uh, peak. We, we also made sure we reviewed that in the context of the overall, uh, flow on the, on the road, um, there is a little bit of an overlap with morning commute and, and school commute, but it's a little bit more spread out because kids are usually there, uh, often kids are there before the morning commute time, as well as the drop-off period is much longer. So it doesn't really create the pinch point that the pickup, um, process does, um, our traffic engineer feels very strongly that even with the full proposed load, Waltham Road is not even close to its design capacity. I think there's about 1900 total trips on that road, which is actually not that much in the context of a full, uh, a full day. Um, and then again, we'll review the way that they do, uh, the school does dismissal at Lincoln and, and show how that process would overlay onto this, this site.
So I'm going to just let Chris speak a little bit about what, what is done now. And then we'll look at that. Okay. So I think the, the protocol, one way to think about how we view our protocol is to always have adults involved and commingled with all the students. And that's really important that we have an adult presence throughout the entire process, as opposed to a school that just opens a door and everybody goes out into a parking lot. And then the cars come. Yeah. I just hear. I'm not supposed to be there. I just think that I'm going to go home to walk myself through the other day.
All right.
So the, the process is really guided by the faculty members, uh, who are, uh, in each of the grades, they're commingled around all the students. Uh, the first thing really thing to highlight is that the students are expected to be, uh, packed outside and ready before three o'clock. So we begin this process well before three. It's not like the bell happens at three o'clock and then every scrambles to put on their coats and their bags and then get out at three o'clock it starts and everybody's already ready at that point, uh, jumping down for the, to the bottom, the teachers on duty. So we have three adults per grade, uh, and all three grades are in sort of separate areas right now. So they're not just everybody running around in a playground. They're sort of confined and, and, and, and different corrals. Um, all the adults have two way radios and they're spread out among the students. And I think the two way radios is really important because the way Lincoln is designed or is, uh, is built. There's, I mean, it's a large hill, so the students are on top of the hill. They have to walk downstairs. So it's a very much of a, uh, kind of a windy path to get down to the cars. So the two way radios there are essential to be able to communicate without line of sight between adults. Uh, and then dismissal team will have, and this is for individuals right now, and this is what works in Justin Lincoln. So we'll have one teacher at the, uh, at the head of the, um, where all the cars pull in right at the head to make sure that they're dismissing, uh, cars smoothly and making sure kids aren't crossing. Uh, we have a staff member that is at the entrance of the property down by Baker Bridge Road, monitoring exactly how far cars are getting close to the road. And when they do get close, then we open up the overflow area and start pulling people on. And then we also have two individuals, two faculty members that are walking between the cars, uh, collecting names and then calling, uh, calling each car up to the teachers. And then when that happens, they're fairly far back in the pickup line. So it's enough time. We, we time it so they're, they're positioned within the pickup line so that by the time it gets called up to the student, they're down. And when the car gets to the front of the line, the student is already at the bottom, uh, by the, what we call the gate, which is where we let people go. So it's a process that seems like it's a little bit of a, a dance with a lot of moving parts. But there's two things that are really essential that we have communication throughout, uh, through the radios and there's adults all around. What about arrival time? Uh, when do cars start lining up? No, when they, in the morning, when the students are dropped off in the morning. I mean, how does it go? Yeah. How does, what's the procedure? Uh, they just pull in, drop off, and then the, the, the student goes up into the, to the school and then the parent just leaves. Okay. There's no, there's no, uh, oh, I guess your answer your question. There's no standard protocol. Right. Because the, the drop off is actually a much broader time period. And it can be almost like an hour and a half. And the children walk in by themselves and there's not an adult there. No, there is an adult who's receiving all the series. They're trying to match kids with cars. Right. They just get out and go. Yes. The adults are there just to make sure that kids aren't running around and they're headed up into the classroom. Um, so the last time, um, I'm Michelle Crowley, the landscape architect. Um, and the last time we presented the dismissal, we just showed a static, uh, image of. The parking lot at, at sort of full capacity, which has a queuing of 110 cars and where the first group is getting loaded and then they move off and the new group comes in. So we wanted to just share, um, how this process works over time. So at two 30, um, before, um, as Chris was saying, students are starting to collect there, but some parents come and ahead of time and they wait. Um, and so this is showing about 10 to this was, this was, um, all. Again, designed on how many people are waiting at Lincoln. And so we're, we're basing it off of that. So two 30, there are 10 to 15 cars waiting. There's two school buses waiting for the, for the students at to interrupt. How many students are at Lincoln currently 238. It's almost an identical number, the same grade level. These will be, uh, more older kids, right? So Lincoln is well right now, Lincoln is six, seventh and eighth grade at 238 kids. And this proposed, um, project would educate 240 kids, grades seven, eight, and nine.
Um, so at two 40, now there are 30 to 35 cars waiting and still the, uh, the two school buses. Um, this is, I know it's a little bit, it's a little bit off. Okay. Um, at two 50 there, now there's about 50 to 55 cars waiting. Um, and then at three o'clock pickup starts. And so by now, uh, the students of those first cars have been called and they start loading. Uh, one of the buses has been, uh, left and another school buses come in. Um, and then at three Oh five that you can see the first batch of cars, uh, coming out and more cars are coming in. And then at three 10, we're getting to closer to capacity here. And then we start, uh, by three 20, we've gone through the line. And by three 30, it's the last of the cars. So, um, I just wanted to kind of go through this more like an animation just to show you, like, this is kind of. Oh, that didn't work as well as I wanted it to. Yeah. You gotta like work your way down.
Anyway. Um, and so that's just a little bit more of, uh, showing you sort of the dismissal process and how we're moving cars, uh, through because last time it was really static. Um, this is the same lighting plan that was also shown. Um, just to wait for questions or would you like. As you're going through the things. It's up to you. I also noticed Sally Murphy has a raised hand. I don't know if we want to not, not the public yet. Okay. If you go back for a minute to the traffic, um, the ones where you are essentially fully loaded in the right there. Yeah. Um, if you have an emergency, how are they getting in? I can see you can get in up to a certain point on the west. Yeah. So the, um, emergency can come in, uh, on the west or also where the buses come in. They can go around all of those cars. And by that time they would just then release all the cars and just get them moving. Um, and the kids would not get loaded. Um, and then the, uh, emergency vehicle could come right in. Um, they would merge right in ahead of all of the rest of the cars. So as soon as a car comes in there, they would be releasing people so that they could come in. Okay. Thank you. Um, so the, the lighting plan is just the same. We're showing, um, that we are extending the parking lot lights. Uh, we have them, we have lower levels of light. And so the parking lights are a little closer together. So we don't have, um, really, they don't have to be super tall and they don't, we won't have dark spots in between. Um, on the south side are more pedestrian level lights. Um, and these are all going to be timed together. They'll be grouped. So the parking lots will be grouped and the pedestrian lights will be grouped so that they only are on when they're needed and, um, and turned off. So none of the back lights will be on, um, you know, during, you know, after, if there's not an activity going on, on the outside, and then the parking lot lights will be, uh, turned off after the end of, uh, if there's nothing going on in school, uh, the, the lighting will not be on, uh, throughout the night. So I have a question. I was out watching the Aurora Borealis at Ponyhenge. And I drove by the school at nine and 10 o'clock at night. And every single light inside the fish center was on is, and I've seen that before late at night. Um, it seems silly to be turning off the outside lights when every single light inside is on. I don't know why that was. If you have cleaners who come through, but they certainly, there can't be enough cleaners that they need every single light in. So if that's something that can be addressed, it's not a part of this, but if we're talking about lighting, that's really not dark sky compliant to have every single light building on. No, there, there was actually one instance where the cleaners never showed up for us. And they were out at Ponyhenge watching the Aurora Borealis. Yeah, but they're, they're on timers. And so, uh, they should be off. Yeah, that was late. And I've seen them late also another time. And the new building would require motion sense. So same, same thing. Those would go off. Whereas I think there's probably a lot of, um, leftover light switches, you know, maybe that are being more dependent on cleaners too. Yeah. At fish. Thank you. The lighting, is this your photometric thing? Yes. Okay. Because on the other one, it was this year it is too. Okay. Go ahead. Um, so this is the photometric that we, uh, sent in. Um, we have outlined where there is, uh, zero foot candles. Um, and so all the foot candles are staying, uh, within the campus with the exception of it creeping over Waltham road, just where the parking lot gets really close. So we're going to take a closer look at that and see why that's happening because all of the lights are, um, you know, they, they supposedly have no backlight, um, and it's working everywhere else. And so I'm just, we're going to talk to the lighting designers to say what's going on right there. And, and, um, but then this is also then showing, uh, the lights. So the parking lot fixture is the existing fixture that's out there. So we'll be continuing that, uh, just in the parking areas. Um, the landscape baller lights are on the pathways, um, just at the front, getting to the front door. Um, the rear sight lighting is just some lights in the back there that, uh, are low, um, and at a pedestrian scale, but they can shine. Um, there's three lights on them so that they can shine. So we don't have to have a lot of these, um, if you try, if we try to do bollards all in the back, we'd have a lot of bollards to try to light the area. So this, we can really safely light it with the most, you know, minimal amount of lights. And then the pedestrian walk at the front is the light at the bottom. And that is just along the front of the road where all the drop off happened. So it's a different, it's not the same as the parking lot fixture. Um, and that is, uh, that is it on the lighting. Um, we're going to move on. Bill, you want to talk about conditions of approval? Uh, good evening for the record. I'm Bill Proya, representing the school. And just a couple of comments on the conditions. I know, um, there might not have been a lot of, um, understanding or memory of those conditions. I think there were 14 or so in that 2016 site plan approval. And, you know, we made the representation last time and again in writing that the school is open to similar kinds of conditions. And I, I did hear from Attorney Hill today, we are going to be in contact about maybe some additional conditions that the neighbors are interested in to address some of their concerns. So I just wanted everyone to know that we're not here saying, you know, take it or leave it. We're trying to work through these with everyone and to balance all the interested parties. So, so, um, will you be submitting your proposed conditions? We can, I don't know how you will consider if there are others that we want. Yeah, sure. We can do that. And again, I will, I will reach out again to attorney Hill and we can talk about input from that side and we can get those going and before the board and the neighbors to take a look at. But again, they would be those kinds of similar things. Something you see right there about the athletic fields. I I'm sure they have the 2016 decision so they can take a look at those conditions to see things that we're kind of talking about. I know there's real interest in traffic, obviously in parking. So, uh, we expect those to be, uh, you know, discussed and reviewed and revised as we go along. But that's really it. They should, you know, they should be similar. And we want to make sure that things are operating smoothly for everyone. And there's a document to look at to understand how, how the school should be operating for everyone's sake. So we all know how the rules of the road out there.
The other piece of it, I know there's been probably some frustration. We've had some bad timing with our traffic engineer. He, he was booked again tonight. So we will be sure to have him at the next hearing for people to hear his presentation specifically. And I know ECT probably will have their comments back by then. So that could be a very productive conversation. And same thing for, for Sean Malone. He would have been here tonight. He's double booked at the conservation commission. Hopefully we won't have that kind of. Conflict next time we try to schedule these things a little bit more. And I've talked to the chair of the conservation commission. I've been trying to reach him for weeks, but we finally talked today. And I told him that we would like to have to provide hearings with them on stormwater and any tree stuff so that we just all hear the same thing. And we can just make a decision. And because we've had an incident where we approve something after a long, long, long, long set of hearings. And then they went to conservation and conservation changed. But conservation could have weighed in earlier, but didn't. And I don't want to do that here. And you feel that that's going to happen. I have no idea what's going to happen. I don't want it to happen. No, I mean, I mean the joint here. Oh, yes. Sorry. Yes, it sounded like he was on board and he. And I know that the staff has been trying tonight. It was a problem to be in that room and be together. It's a long story. But technically we had issues. Yeah. I think everyone will benefit. I think so too. If we can pull that off. I think it's our last slide.
Yeah. So I think our, you know, we also wanted to make sure we were clear on what the next steps are. So we know we need to be seen by conservation. And make sure that we get the peer review comments addressed. We know that we need to get the peer review comments for the address as well. Again, those were submitted, but we now need to give ECT some time to digest them and respond. We do still need to be seen and heard by the design review advisory board, which we're hoping to do probably in the coming weeks just to get that going. And then, you know, we wanted just to make sure we were clear on what else you all need to see from us or hear from us outside of what we may have already shown you or what was in our application. And, you know, again, I think having that one conversation around stormwater will be great, the trees and things like that. And then, you know, as Bill indicated, starting this conversation, you know, between the neighbors and ourselves and you all about what those conditions might want to look like. And if you'd like us to give you our first draft, we can start it there. That's fine. I think, you know, a lot of them would be a similar ilk to what was discussed last time. That would be fine. But I think that before you submit them, if you've had your discussion with the neighbors first, that would be most helpful.
Is there anything else, you know, like Bill said, we would like to make sure our traffic engineers at the next meeting, just so that if there are specific questions, a lot of the information that he is going through is calculations and things that probably most of us in this room don't know how to talk about. But specific questions about how those are done and methodology and all that, you know, we are not educated enough to answer those. So we'd like to have him there, even if it's just a field questions. Okay. Right now, we've got you down for a decision by the 16th. I don't think that is viable. Okay, just checking. So we have two big projects in front of us. And we're trying to do one one week, one another so that people aren't sitting here for all hours of the day and night. So our next hearing session, I have to check with the board. We tentatively, Robert put in December the 10th. Will you be ready by then or should you be waiting until December 17th? I don't want to have a meeting and not make real progress. What I would say is we're ready now because we have gone through the comments that we've received and responded so far. But if something comes back in the meantime, I don't know. So we need to have our peer reviewer look at the information and be able to get back to you. And we haven't talked to your traffic person yet. So we need, if he's having new stuff, we need to have that in advance of the meeting so that the peer reviewer can look at it and then proceed. So you need to tell us what is realistic.
Yeah, let's keep it, you know, conservative. Let's do the 17th. And so we can
be as responsive as possible to intervening comments that we may get. Okay. Larry and Ira, are you here on the 17th? I guess we'll be talking later about our overall schedule. But are you around then? Or are you going to tell me later that you can't come? Ira? Larry? Larry's here.
Ira, are you not here? His camera is muted. Okay. Okay. So that would be on the 17th. Larry, are you good for the 17th? He said he was. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And probably we would do that like at 715. As far as my people show up. 715. And we'll set that up in a minute. For a decision, can we move out into January? Sure. Because, okay. And the meetings in January are the 7th and the 28th. The 7th would be the first meeting after the 17th. So I don't know if that was really a good date. The 28th, if that's possible, would be a good time. If we could do it early. If we could issue a decision earlier, we would. Okay. Yeah. I mean, can we see how, can we see how the 17th goes in nature? Sure. I just need to have an extension of time on the record because 1216 is the date current. Right. So you can decide how you'd like to do that. But we want to just plan it so that we know that we're around to review a decision. If we meet on the 17th, there may or may not be any more questions that might be all resolved by then. And that would be great. And then we'd be able, I would prefer not to have to work over Christmas, but if we have to, we do. And then our next meeting is the 28th. So that would be the most logical time to extend to. Yeah, we can, we can do that. And if I'll take, we want it to be like two days after. Yeah. I was just going to say like the next day or the day after that, because the 28th is our meeting date. And then we would be looking at the decision and voting it and then have to file it. So 30th. What day is the 30th? Friday. Friday.
Again, if everything went better and we could do it earlier, we would try to do it earlier. So the 17th, that's the concept is, would have the CONCOM as well.
Is that, do they have a meeting that day? Or when do they have their meeting, their next meeting?
Did they continue their hearing tonight to when? The 3rd of December? Yeah. Yeah. It's conceivable. We have the Coptic church that evening. It's conceivable that on the 3rd, if that's when they're meeting, that we could do a combined partial hearing combined on stormwater and trees, and then the rest of it with you. And we would try and do it at the town building on the rest of your project because they won't. So potentially, potentially the 3rd and then the 17th with the planning board and the 3rd with both. If we can get everything in on the, yeah, maybe the 3rd and the 17th. So the 3rd for maybe a joint, if not maybe a joint on the 17th. Yeah. I mean, we would be ready for that for sure. We were ready for tonight, but they wanted to wait and make sure they had, they had a chance to review what we submitted, which is understandable. Okay. So that would be good if that's when they're planning on meeting. So, um, and, uh, I just want to get everything tied down before I may ask for a motion. So, um, we will try to have a combined hearing with the conservation commission on December the 3rd on stormwater and trees, um, and anything else they think is in common. And we'll check ahead and make sure you know exactly what, and then we would, uh, recess, not recess. Yeah. Take a break and then move into another room and then do the rest of the project. If you're ready to do that with us. So that would be on the 3rd. So, um,
but for, well, you won't be ready for the rest of it. Will you? It really depends on what ECT comes back with, I think. But we also have the Coptic church on the 3rd. So why don't we do just that joint part on the 3rd and then do everything else on the 17th. That's fine. And what, what time is the Coptic church? It's like 17, 7.30 or something like that way. Well, hold on. Let me just make sure I have it ready. through it. Uh, uh, 17th at the Coptic church.
So it would be later in the evening. 7.70. I'm thinking. No, please try it. I gave him my spare chair. Hi, Ira. Do you think? Why do you say how much time I want the Coptic church? I know. Right. So board 7.15, we start with the Coptic church. We could go until, um, 8.45. Or if you think we need to go longer, we can go longer. I know record record my I will. I think very spot. That's an hour and a half. About 13. An hour. Hour 15 inch. I'm sorry. 7.15, 7.15. Yeah, but last time they went way over. 7.15 to 8.15. That would be an hour and a half. 7.45. I mean 8.45. Okay. 8.45. And then you need to make sure that Linda schedules it. So that we can do this.
Um, can I have a motion? All right. You have to mute the meeting. Sorry.
You did. Now we can still hear it.
Okay. Can I have a motion? You can turn the speaker off. Oh, sorry. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Um, is there any public comment? So sorry. Yeah, there is. I have a Sally Murphy. Okay. I was scared. And she's gone. Is there just one person online? She's off now. She's off now. Nobody else. Oh, no, she's back.
Yes, you hear you. Hi. Uh, sorry. My name is Sally Murphy. I am at 33 Long Meadow Road in Lincoln. Um, I really had a question more at the beginning. I just, I couldn't, um, chime in unmuted. It's more about the traffic. I know that you're waiting for your traffic engineer to come, uh, propose the study or give us the feedback. I'm wondering if they're going about this differently than they did when Carroll School first came in and conducted the traffic study. Or are they conducting a very similar traffic study? Do you know? Um, before they answer, um, in the future, can all comments be directed to the chair? And the chair will make sure that the answer is received. So, um, I'll turn it over to the Carroll School now to answer. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't, I don't know the essence of your question except that I think there's a standard protocol for how traffic studies are, are conducted. You know, that there's, there's guidelines and that's what they've done is, you know, area, roadways, intersections, um, et cetera, uh, that should be impacted or could be impacted. Um, I'm not sure if there's a specific question about how it was done before versus now that could raise some of color.
Okay, that's, um, is there any other public comment, Mr. Hill? All right, thank you, uh, members of the board, uh, my name is Ian Hill, an attorney in the land use of zoning, and I represent, uh, many, not most of the neighbors have letters to Carroll School. I did submit the letters to the board, and I also copied, uh, on that letter as well. Um, I had a couple of questions and then I had comments. Um, the first question has to do with, uh, uh, I was told by Linda Hanson that the conservation commission was waiting for a peer review and. We have a peer review. I guess the question is, are they doing a separate peer review? No, they're using the same peer review consultant and they've had that for a while. Yeah, that was seven weeks ago, right? That's correct. Okay, so that, then, okay. Um, and then, I think what I heard in the, in the initial presentation was that the school's responses to ECT's peer review was submitted today. Yep. And was that submitted to the board as well as ECT? Yep. Okay. I, I, I, I sent it to everyone. Can you send it to Dan as well? I don't send it to Dan. Oh. I mean, we got like 12 in the afternoon. Sorry. No, it's fine. It's, it's, it's posted in the day. It's posted online. It is posted online, so. Okay. It's available online, Dan. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then on, in, in the November 7th letter, um, we, in Denver, if we have respect for a lot of time, basically consolidating all of the comments that, that we all have made over the last month, um, because we, we realized that it's been kind of scattered shot, right? We, we've sent multiple letters to Lincoln, to Wayland. And so the purpose of the November 7th letter is really to compile everything in one place. And we have 29 substantive areas of concern, which I would call, you know, categories. And within those 29 categories, there are comments and questions. And then below that, there were five requests for additional information and action items. Um, it was my hope that the applicant would have responded to that that line by line, point by point, but, um, that didn't happen. And that's their prerogative. Right. And I think that, um, in the responses that they've been given that we got today, I think they were trying to answer a number of those questions. Okay. It wasn't, it wasn't a reason. It was a response to EC, to the consultants peer review, but many of the things that you've been asking for were mentioned in the consultant's report. Okay. And were mentioned at our last meetings. Yes. Okay. Can I also add that we previously to your letter, we did the same thing and aggregated all of the comments and sent a letter on the seven, probably passing in the internet. Um, so many of them should have been answered there as well, to the extent that they were clickable to be answered by the design. Yeah, I did read your letter and I think some of them were addressed, um, but a lot weren't and, um, I think it's okay. I'd like to just, you know, briefly run through the highlights and the first issue is the, as long, let me just say this, as long as it's something that we can deal with via the Dover amendment restrictions. Yes. Otherwise do it offline with the applicant. Well, the, everything that we've raised is jurisdictional to the planning. Um, not really. I, I, I, I, I, I sense their skepticism. Yes. Because I've looked at, I've looked at them. I've done some new research over the last couple of days. And, um, the board is not limited to the specific categories that are in section three. Those are broad categories. And there's actually a case law that has addressed this very question because other cities and towns have looked at issues that perhaps perhaps you can share that with us. I'm familiar with the Tufts case, which basically says you can't deal with traffic. Well, the Tufts case actually explains that there, you can go beyond, they don't say that word for word, but the, the crux of the Tufts case is that the city of Medford was not limited to the specific enumerated categories that are in section three. So the, the, the greater point here is that you cannot unreasonably regulate the over amount of uses and you cannot apply standards that are, that are different than you otherwise apply to other uses in town. Um, and it's not what the attorney general's guidance says. I am not sure what it says. And, and we can, it's, uh, is that on our webpage too, Robert? No, if it's not, can you put it up? So, I mean, I guess on an issue of traffic, since you raised it, um, I would argue that the traffic impacts of this project are germane to the sports review because the applicants gave you a traffic center. Um, the applicant opened the door, um, and the applicant did the right thing. It hired a traffic engineer and it did a study, which the applicant should be applauded to do because the applicant thought that traffic was outside of Dover. It wouldn't have done that. That's not, I don't want to get into an argument. I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that they're trying to be as responsive to the neighbors as possible. And they put in as complete an application as they felt they could, even though, uh, some of the things aren't necessarily covered by Dover. So, um, so I don't, I don't think that it's in our purview to demand of them to do certain things. We asked them at the last meeting and they have responded and they are doing the things that we asked them to do, to look at additional intersections, to look at what the roadway looks like when, uh, they're doing dismissal. Um, they're responding to what they can. Uh, you had also asked if we would hire a traffic engineer, the engineer that we have, we have hired to do traffic as well. So, we're not in a position to ask the applicant, uh, or ourselves to hire another peer reviewer. Does the peer review firm hire? I don't know if they specialize in traffic. It's part of the RFP that went out. They responded to it and that's what they're doing. All right. Well, our argument is that the board received a professional prepared and is going to be receiving some information from the traffic engineer that was hired by the applicant and the board should have someone equally qualified to review it. And I don't know the qualifications of Mr. Creel. It's not Mr. Creel. There's someone else in the, in the organization. We can certainly ask for their qualifications, but in responding and I, I do not pick the, uh, people who are selected for RFPs. It was done by the select board's office. Um, they're the ones who are supposed to be looking at that. We write the criteria that we want and they're supposed to be looking at that. When is the additional traffic data going to be submitted? Uh, we heard tonight that additional trip counts were, what did they said that they would be read, they would submit it in advance of September the 17th and enough time for your reviewer to look at it and then you would be able to look at it at the same time. We'll talk to the traffic engineer tomorrow and we'll let everyone know when to expect it. Thank you. I can't say right now, but. Um, related to traffic is, is the drop off of pickups. And yeah, that was one of the things that we asked for was what I call a transportation manager commandment and saw some slides tonight, which we'll see. Um, there was also a reference in, uh, a treaty for the letter that suggested that that would be a condition of approval that they would submit a plan later for your consideration. Um, I want to warn the board that it can't impose conditions in a decision that would require an applicant to come back before you at some future date with additional plans and details and subject that to, to additional approvals. Um, there's impressed, there's a, why would we do that? Well, that's what the applicant suggested. No, that isn't what he suggested. Yeah, no, I just, just to clarify what our intention is, is to include a protocol document with the decision, with the decision. So that's something that they need to work with you on and your clients to come up with hopefully, um, an agreed upon list of those things that you'd like to see in the decision. And I mean, agreed upon by two, and if it's not agreed upon by two, then we'll take what the school has agreed to with you and you can submit your own separately and then we'll go from there. Yeah. I mean, it would be similar to the attachment to the 2016 decision. So we are working on a revision to that. Okay. I mean, to be clear, we want to work with the school to review the plan and provide feedback. I just, when I read the letter, I thought the intent was to file something after the decision. So that would be filed before the public hearing is closed, will allow for us to review it. Um, hopefully you will have reviewed it in advance before it gets filed with us. Right. Um, same thing with construction, excuse me, the construction management plans. Um, that should be something that's reviewed during this hearing. Um, so I don't know. I'm sorry. We're not going to be reserving stuff for another time. Everything will be within this hearing. Okay. So again, maybe I'm going to start the letter. I thought, I thought the applicant was suggesting that would be conditional approval. So that one we did. And I think that's still going to be our point of view. We don't have a general contractor on board. We, we just can't come up with a construction management plan. We can come up with some, some broader outlines of it, but it's not going to be a detailed staging plan or construction management plan. I think at a minimum we need to know hours of operation, parking on site,
how far away from neighbor properties you're going to be when you're doing the work, that sort of thing. Yeah. We'll come up with as detailed the plan as we can at this point and see how the discussion goes. With respect to the drainage and hydrology issues, um, there was reference to additional test picks being done and so forth. Was that data filed today with that response? Yes. Yeah. So everything that you've done now is now filed? Correct. Except the final tabulation of the traffic accounts that are, that should be eminent. Right. But on the, on the, on the, but all the sites civil. Yep. Always in today's. Yep. Okay. Um, okay. So I'll look forward to reading that letter. Um, and then with respect to the other 29 comments, and I don't want to send an hour going through these tonight, or we probably don't want to be there, but is it, can we ask the applicants to respond to our points or? They can decide. I think that you guys need to talk to each other and decide how you want to work together. I don't think it's fair to ask the applicant to respond point by point to every one of your concerns, because most of them aren't part of the hearing process. Well, they don't have to, but, but we should, if they're not going to, then we should have the ability to express our concerns. I think you can express your concerns. Again, if it's not something that we think is jurisdictional, you can express them, but we can't do anything about them. Okay. Um, so I think one of the big questions we had was what is the plan for the maintenance facilities on, on the site? Um, the current maintenance schedule is being lost and I haven't seen, or I don't think we understand where the maintenance occur and whether there's any maintenance being, being proposed on apple tree. I think that they answered that, but I'm sure that they can answer it again for you. I'm happy to take that. So yeah, so the, there's some general maintenance operations that are happening at 37 right now because they have the space. Um, some of those operations are going to move back to Lincoln, uh, just because that building will no longer be there. Right. So the intent is that, um, in the maintenance staff will work out of the school buildings that the, the, um, existing garage that's off of apple tree, uh, will be used similar to how it is now holding mowing equipment, things like that. So there will be some access to that building to bring out, you know, uh, small equipment like that, but the kind of big, uh, facilities management stuff is going to move away from, from the site back to Lincoln things like storing sand piles and salt piles and things like that. So the equipment and other things associated with maintenance for the way on campus will be housed in the garage that's on apple tree? I think things like mowing, mowing equipment and maybe snowblowers, just there's whatever is there right now. I think is the intent to keep those items still there. It's mostly off, off season, uh, storage. So we have snowblowers there now. We have our salters there now. Uh, the mowers are up. And so when, uh, when the seasons change, then we'll take the snowblowers out. We'll move them up by the school. Uh, the salt shed that's there that is going to be transferred back to, uh, Lincoln. There's a salt shed there right now. And so we're just going to drain this winter, the salt that's there and just dismantle it. One other, just one addition too, is that, um, each of our campus has a facilities lead. There's just a person, a one person. Um, and that's exactly the staffing that we have now and will remain. So the traffic pattern on apple tree will just be that one person in a truck. Um, so there won't be new staffing, um, in addition to the storage use that's, that's currently happening. Okay. And what about the, so the property that you own on apple tree to call the sack? There's actually a large field behind the house. Is, is any of that part of any, are you planning any change of use of that, of, of that land back there as part of this project? Nope. And in fact, there was an A&R file for this project and that parcel's not part of that at all.
Is there a weekend and evening event calendar or schedule? I mean, I, what are you planning on using the campus for on weekends and evenings? Is it going to change from what is current, what the current use is? I have no plans to make any changes to current use on the weekends. So the, the facilities will not be available for rents to private parties? No.
May I make a suggestion that we work on the conditions because going through this like this is pointless if you ask me. So I will make an effort to talk to attorney Hill and answer those questions, get draft conditions going if they're appropriate. Yeah. That, if, if we can maybe go through this list bill, um, as part of that conversation, I think that I agree. I don't want to waste time, but I also like, I want to get responses. So, um, why do we do that? Yeah. Do you have anything else, Stan, that you want to, um, no, let me just double check on our, our action items. So, you know, hire a traffic reviewer. We have a traffic reviewer. Um, something's going to be provided. Yeah. Just recognizing we won't have a contractor doing it. So we'll fill in the blanks that we can, but it will have to be more detailed when it approaches. But I assume the building department can help us make sure that it's appropriate before we start. Great. Thank you. Thanks. Are there any other public comments? Yes. Just identify yourself and where you live. I'm Colin Sullivan, uh, 37 Long Widow Road. I would live directly across from the Carroll School.
One thing that, uh, don't want to lose sight of is that, before getting into more comments, is that the Carroll School does have great mission and it does have a very needed mission. And we and other neighbors have had family that have very much benefited from the Carroll School. And you know, we recognize the mission is important. I do hope that it thrives in the future and it keeps growing. The, the admiration that I do have for the school or the respect I do have for the school doesn't diminish the concern that I have that some issues have not been fully addressed. The, the slides that are really helpful to get a view of that, uh, pick up and drop off plan. Clearly, there's a lot of thought that went into that, but there's, there's an element of trust that goes into that plan that it's hard for us in the community to bridge the gap between what's intended and what's going to happen. But I imagine the board doesn't have sufficient evidence or sufficient detail to understand do those plans really play out in a real life scenario. Specifically, that pickup drop off plan does not tell us under what assumptions it breaks down. What happens when a maximum load of students and parents come in at a given time, if more people drive than are expected. The school has given us assurances that, um, there will not be queuing on the street, that this pickup and drop off will go smoothly. And we are fully aligned with the school and I'm sure they're aligned with not having a mess out on Waltham Road. We're all on the same thing, but it's very difficult for us to verify what they're planning will in fact happen under most circumstances. The idea that the Carroll School Lincoln campus is analogous to what's happening on, on Waltham Road, that doesn't resonate with me. And I, I, I doubt it resonates with anybody else that goes on to Baker Bridge and sees the difference between Baker Bridge and Waltham Road. We really do need an expert to take a look at the assumptions under which the flow through the school and onto Waltham Road, uh, that they work. Because otherwise you are going to have queuing or we're not going to be able to validate whether or not what's being suggested will happen. It'd be great to get validation that what's expected is going to happen. But there's no way from the slides that were presented or what, or just a suggestion that because it works in Lincoln, it's going to work in Waltham Road, that's not enough. If it's an important issue for the board, as it's an important issue for the community to confirm that there's not going to be queuing up the strainer, if there's not going to back up, we would suggest that we have this look at by UCT or somebody that is expert in looking at this flow and the assumptions and where it might break down. We'll definitely have the peer reviewer that we have on board look at it. Thank you very much. I, I believe, and I, I don't, I believe that these plans were part of the submission that went in today to ECT's questions. But if not, we are happy to, you know, submit them and make sure they have everything they need to comment on that. There was nothing in what was put up here today. It's just that, that, that there are parameters. Like where, when does it work and when does it not work? It just suggested at max flow, you're going to have 100 people queued. Well, 100 is not 240. If you have all 240 come, this is going to break down. What times does it break down? Does it work with Waltham Road is at a max? If there is a peak, if there is a break. We, we just can't, we just can't evaluate it without seeing those pieces. I'll just chime in. Um, so at the last presentation we showed where, um, so 50% of the school stays for after school. So it's, um, and 30% take the bus. So we showed a maximum amount, which it'll rarely ever get that way, but there are, you know, there are like 20 times a year that there's a, you know, the full dismissal where there is an after school. And in that time, there are no buses for sports. And so that opens up 24 cars. They'll also, um, this was also presented at the last time where the, the bays can be, will be set, uh, people won't be able to park in certain days. So then that's a release valve around the circle is also a release valve too. And so we ended up being able to add like 50 more cars, um, throughout, like if, and that's again, if it's static, right. Um, and so we feel pretty confident that, you know, it's gonna, it'll keep moving because 18 cars, they how, and yes, it is based on Lincoln, um, and it's the same age group and even older. So it's even, you know, they're even older to get to the cars and then get released. So it's, we've, we've thought about the release valves on the few times that, um, on those few times that it is, uh, all school kind of dismissal. No doubt. There's been thought that that is not a question. It's just how do we look at what are the pieces here and where does it break down? Because, and how do we validate it? Do we have a traffic expert look at it and say, this holds water. It works. It does not really balance for me that because it works in Lincoln, it's going to work in Wayland. They look like two very different settings and you know, you cannot control the parents. You've said it before. You can't make everybody take the bus and you can't make everybody come at specific times. You can try. Where does it break down? And it would be good to know that so that we know it's realistic. Any other public comments? Yes, please. Ronald Siegel, uh, 20 Long Meadow Road. Lincoln, uh, thank you for checking on the public right of way. I had raised the issue of the sidewalk, um, previously and apparently that, that strip is owned by, um, by the town. I was wondering if the school would consider joining with the neighbors to deposition the town to see if they might investigate the possibility of the sidewalk there for everybody's safety. This would just be, uh, you know, as, as a favorite, uh, you know, to together see if it might be possible to do that. Yeah. It's very, um, narrow there. You would be, it would be tough to put in a sidewalk. Because there's a certain, uh, width that's required by law. Well, there's the paved right of way and the unpaved right of way. And the unpaved right of way is all that would be available. That you'd be right on the road. You would be, we usually in town, when we do sidewalks, we like to have a buffer between the roadway and the walking path. And it's pretty narrow there. If you look at the plans, you'll see. Even if it's up on a curb though, I mean, cause there's some safety to the fact that it's, you know, it's, it's higher up. I don't know if you've driven down, uh, Concord Road close to our library. Um, there's a curb there, but it's a little dicey. It's a little dicey. The road is right there. I mean, it would, I, I, I hear that and it would still seem less dicey than walked on the road, which is what we wind up doing currently, which is quite dicey. So, so you can just a step in the direction of seeing what might be possible for the kids also that, you know, that are, um, that aren't all coming by car. It seems unlikely though. Also that, you know, if you, you can, maybe if everybody works together, maybe it works out to put a sidewalk right by the school, but I doubt that it's going to work out that everybody who is on Waltham road is going to agree to have a sidewalk on their yard. And so then it's just one little section. The cars obviously aren't right by the school. In fact, there are the fewest cars of all right by the school because they go in one driveway and then they're on property and coming up the other way. Um, so it's, it's the most problematic section though, because of the curb. It is, but it's also, it's problematic when there's no sidewalk and then a sidewalk and then no sidewalk because people have to transit transition up and on. And that makes people unpredictable. When are you going to step off the sidewalk? And you know, it, it's a great idea. It'd be great to have a sidewalk on Waltham road. I'm just skeptical that it would ever see the light of day. It's certainly up to you. If you want to try and petition, it would be that. I think the DPW. I'm completely not expert in this. It's just, I think one of the, one of the prevalent positions is the town is not going to install anything that doesn't meet construction standards for a sidewalk or else there's a liability. It's kind of, well, you know, you've only got two feet to walk here and it's not our fault that you get slipped. Right. I mean, that's crude. I don't mean to be like that, but it has to meet certain standards or they won't do it. Are there any other questions? Yes. Jeff Sias, 109 Old Subway road in Lincoln, which is directly across from 37 Waltham road. Um, I would like to ask the board and try and understand a little bit about jurisdiction and the idea of the parking lot design itself. We saw today with the lighting design, the spillover on the, that would be the north side where the parking lot comes closest to Waltham road. Is there an ability to request that redesign or some ability for higher buffer there? I didn't, I wasn't sure. They said that they're going to look into it because we generally would not let light spill over off of their property because it's not their property. So that is part of Dover because it's part of not necessarily part of Dover. It's part of property ownership. Sure. Okay. That's one of the questions we have is that parking lot design and what flexibility there might be there. I know it has an impact on the flow and as part of what I'm sure we'll talk about, but that's, um, one of the big neighborhood concerns and they have said that they'll keep the light on their property and won't let it spill over. Right. It's not just the light. It's actually the lightest. The least of our concerns is the, the buffer of the parking lot, the proximity of the parking lot to Waltham road on the curve that comes up closest to the road. There's what, five or 10 feet of separation there. And we're concerned about the buffer space. The tree buffers. Tree buffers. And I believe, again, this would probably be part of the conditions. Um, they've said that they want to, uh, embellish. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to speak for you. They want to embellish those areas. And as, as the board, do you have any kind of jurisdiction over parking lot design? Parking lot design. Yes. Thank you. And, um, we have to, I don't want to cut people up. I want to make sure that everybody else who wants to speak has spoken because we have another hearing that we have to begin at nine o'clock. So aside from, um, Mr. Hill, is there anyone else who wants to come online? We let that person go online. Sorry. This is Sally Murphy again. I got muted again when I earlier, uh, was trying to speak about the previous road study. I know there's been a lot of discussion and I won't hold it up. I just want to signal as you're working with your study. Um, I've lived here since 1985, so I know this road very well. Um, I want to take into heavy consideration, which I don't think was done in 2016. That old Sudbury Waltham road is incredibly narrow. As you just pointed out, there is no shoulder. The road is pretty much the equivalent of one and a half car lengths. It is hard to even get two cars by that road. So anyone who's walking their dog, walking their children, riding their bikes, I'm convinced that the speed limit on that road is too high as it is. And the road study comes in only last year or in 2016, six miles over. Really, I think the speed limit is too high on that road to begin with, and it should be taken into heavy consideration when you get the information that that is a very narrow road. The other thing that I'm concerned about is on long meadow, which is a cut through. I'm not that worried about your students getting in and out of your cars quickly. I'm worried about parents flying down our road. This whole street, this whole area, apple tree, long meadow, Linway is full of children, small kids, little kids on bikes. This is residential. So for the school, it's not just traffic and roadways on Waltham Road, it's the importance of everyone picking up their kids and trying to get out of here as fast as they can. And the roads are not built for it. And our children are not built for it. And the neighborhood is not built for it. And it is a very serious worry, as you can hear from everyone in this area. So I just think as you get this report in, I really hope that there's some conversation that's not just black and white, but really being honest about what we're looking at for the layout of this community. Thank you. Is there anybody else, Robert, online? No. Anybody else in the room other than Mr. Hill? Okay. Dan? Just one closing point, Annette, on this issue of jurisdiction, right? Because I know this is really important. There's a distinction between the conditions you impose on the project and your review of the project. And what Tufts says, and what all the case law says under Dover, is that boards cannot put on conditions on Dover Amendment protected uses that go beyond the scope of the statute. It does not say that boards are prohibited from looking at overall impacts of a project. And so what we've asked for is filling in the gaps of the traffic study that was done, which include things like the trip counts. What was provided was the additional trips, not the total trips at school. We know from their study that some of these intersections are going to be delays are going to increase by 200%. These are all things that are important for the town to understand as to what the impacts will be. It doesn't mean, hold on, let me just finish. It doesn't mean that the planning board is going to impose conditions, but at least we have that information. So maybe the town of Wayland does something like mitigation for these intersections to make them work better. So I just want to make that point that I agree with you. And I'm not going to argue with you, but I am going to say that they've already said they're going to address those things. And we're going to operate in good faith until they show us that they're not operating in good faith. And you're welcome to discuss whatever you'd like to discuss on behalf of your clients with the applicant. But they've given us more than they had to. I'm pleased that they have, but we're not going to go down a raffle. Okay. I just wanted to make the distinction of, there may be a debate over what conditions are opposed, but the review is not open to debate. There's been plenty of cases that have. Dan, I, I heard you. I don't agree with you. Um, and that's where we are. Um, any other, uh, comments from the board questions? Larry. No, I'm good. Ira. Robin. Um, I had some comments in terms of the landscaping. Um, I had looked at the plans and I noticed that there really aren't,
there aren't any plantings like evergreens between, let's say the new building and the sidewalk that's right there. And some of the areas out by the road, because of the right of way and how close the parking area is to that area, you have trouble adding enough screening right there. But I wonder if some screening were added closer to the building between the building and the sidewalk, some tall cedars or whatever, that you might be able to soften the look of the building where people can see through the buffer that's out by the road. Um, it was just a thought that I had as we looked at it. Um, that was my one thought. I don't think I had any other thoughts. Um, we can definitely look at that. Uh, I mean, we were thinking in terms of, um, in the, in the rain garden in between, we can also, that's, that's an area where we can get some planting in. Um, if, if the school doesn't want to have evergreens, I think it's, I don't think we want to have evergreens where you can't see the drop off area like that. We want to have a little bit more open, um, further down towards the west side of the building where you're a little further away from the drop off and pickup area. Yes. Yes, we can do that. But in terms of also screening, we have the rain garden in the center, um, between the parking and the drop off that can also do that. Okay. And the other thing I wanted to say is I have spent way more time in my life doing pickup and drop off at several local private schools. And in general, it moves pretty well, but there are always things that can be considered when, when you have those rare all school drop off and pickup days where perhaps you can release two grades at one time and two grades at another time and make families who have multiple kids come at the later time or something. So you break up the pickup and drop off. And it would be nice when you're discussing these things with the, the abutters and things. If you maybe have a plan for those all school days, that's a little different from your regular days so that you break up those all school days. Cause those are difficulties. Those are long, hard pickup days. Um, so, but, and having done those pickups, I would also assure the abutters that most of the time, those pickups move quicker than you think they do. And as long as the school is being vigilant about keeping cars from piling up out in the neighborhood, hopefully this will all move. That looks pretty familiar to me. So in case that's reassuring in terms of just the pickup, there are other traffic issues, but Robert, do you have anything? Okay. Um, and I don't think I did this before, so let me try now. Um, can I have a motion to, uh, uh, continue this hearing to December the 3rd, um, uh, what time? I would like to be in person if we can, at the town hall, if we can, um, we might have to do it hybrid, but not meeting here anymore. Or just, no, this is just sitting here regularly. No, this is just one time. Okay. So, um, may I have a motion, uh, to continue until December 3rd at 8 45, hopefully to be in session with the conservation commission. So moved. So second. All second. Uh, all in favor, Larry Kiernan. Yes. Yes. Ira Honigue. Yes. Robin Woodstead. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Okay. Thank you, everyone. Do we need to move the decision date out today? Um, they have to do that. Okay. Okay. Send us an email. Just write me an email. Is that hybrid? In person? Well, we can do it. You can do it hybrid in person. Do you want to do it? But I want us to be there. And hopefully can't come today.
Ned, what time was the meeting on the 3rd? On the 3rd, 8 45. 8 45.
So, um, she's on.
Hello, Carol.
Thank you very much. Sorry to have done that to you. No problem. This is, um, PB, uh, 2505, 3, 5, and 7, uh, Seto Wood Lane, previously referred to as 13 Cherena Road. Um, and it's to amend a previously issued amendment to, uh, May 13th, 2025, uh, amended definitive subdivision approval, uh, to modify the location of the water main. So, um, Carol, do you want to just tell us what's up? And then Robert can brief the board. Okay. Um,
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. To. Um, Carol Seato 13th, Karina Ro. Uh, or also known as 3, 5, 7, Seatwood lane. Um, previously planning board has approved the subdivision, uh, with the water main coming in from off Cherena Row. As we were getting through conservation, one of the neighbors requested that we move the water main to come in from old Connecticut path. The reason being that she's concerned there's a willow tree off the side of her property on the private way coming in might be negatively impacted by the installation of the water main coming through. Although we have arbors to show that would not be the case because the water line, actually we have redesigned it to move further away from the tree, 25 feet away. But she's still not comfortable and conservation decided that it's better for the project to move forward if we agree to move the water main to come in from the old Connecticut path. So the engineer, Kevin, checked with DPW. Conservation also checked with DPW DPW and the fire department. We redesigned it and make sure the hygiene come in off the main to make sure it meets all the requirements set by DPW.
Oh, thank you. I don't have that. All right. So there is a hygiene, right? Oh, I don't know if you can see my pointer. It's a proposed hygiene, 7,500, 574 feet to Tirina Row, which is within the requirement set by the DPW.
There are two fire hydrants, I believe. Yes. At the very end and then... The one at the very end of the cul-de-sac, yes. And is the DPW okay? When they say hydrants, those two are fine for them? The one at the end of the cul-de-sac has always been there. That's right, I know. Yeah, so the one that we propose, the 574 feet, is because the change of the location coming in from old Connecticut path. And your consultant has already spoken with DPW on that? Yes. Are there any other changes on this plan from the last version that we saw? No, just the water money coming in. All the utilities still will be underground, gas and electric. So there's no other changes. Are you still dealing with the conservation commission on any part of any of this, or are you done? No, we're done. I already have the order of condition has been recorded. We already finished the erosion control. And Linda has came out maybe two weeks ago to do the inspection. And we have started the clearing of the private way. Does anybody have any questions? No. Good idea. Do you have any questions? No. And you don't have any either. We have to vote and sign this too and we have to write an amended decision. Yep. And I forget what you said the date was that we've got time, right? Yeah. I think it's nine days. So you can write something a short thing. Just restart it. Okay.
I just have one question. Sure. So the previous plan, right, was to come down the street with a water main? Yeah. Yes. Because of one tree the conservation commission said we should go to all Connecticut path. And currently, right, if we do that we're going to be disturbing some existing trees, right? I don't know. Coming in from all Connecticut path that is like a grassy area. Between these two properties that are right away is it a grassy area? All right. All right, trees. Just brush. We already had gone through this whole issue with the willow tree. You should look at the tree. It's really large. Willow tree. Yes, it's going to die. It would be nice. And we all, I mean, we went around and around and we all decided that it was fine and we would go if things should go down the road. And then conservation decided, they kept bringing them back. I mean, I don't know how many times these people had to go back and back and back and back until they finally said the hell with it. Let's just move it because they couldn't wait anymore. All right. Yeah. Okay.
So, can we have, this is up to you guys. If Robert prepares a brief decision and we know that's what I was going to say, is it okay if I review it and sign it and we vote tonight that it's okay because it's not going to be complicated. Is that okay? Yes. So, can I have a motion? Great. I'm so happy. Can I have a motion to approve the requested amendment to the site plan and what's the site plan number, Robert? The original or? The one now. It's an amendment to the original and it's got the same number, right? I give it a new number. I give it 25.05.
No, the plan, the site plan itself. Oh, the recorded information? No. The number on the plan, the plan has a plan number on it. It's like the same date too, right? It has, it'll have an amended date and it does on the right hand, on the left hand side. Oh, October 21st. Oh, okay. See? October 21st or? So this is plan set one of two plan profile sheet. Is that what it's called? Plan and profile sheets? Okay, so in amendment two, the plan and profile sheets one and two as amended 10, 21, 25 to show movement of the water line from the original location along the street to an area that also belongs to the property owner coming off of old Connecticut path. So moved. Do you want me to do it again? I can write it down and read it back to you. No. Unless, yeah. And, I'm sorry, can I, can I make a comment? That, that area is not owned by the neighbor, they have an easement for the first part of the path coming in for them to have the driveway as a turnaround, but that part is part of a land. It's your land, that's what I was saying. It's part of your land. I just wanted to make it clear that you weren't going on to somebody else's land.
So moved, so we need a second.
I'll end in favor.
Larry Kiernan. Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Robin Borgstead. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Also, I would like permission of the vote of the board to allow Robert to draft the minor decision and me to work with him on it and sign it on behalf of the board. So moved. Second. All in favor? Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Robin Borgstead. Larry Kiernan. Yes. I have a hand up. Someone has a hand up? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to let them talk and see what they said. Can you hear me? Yes. We are the neighbors that have that easement. We're at 222 Old Connecticut Path. What is your name please? Oh, I'm sorry. This is Maren Rietmeyer.
Maren Rietmeyer. Can you Maren? Yes. Maren. A-R-E-N. A-R-E-N. Rietmeyer. R-E-E-P-M-E-Y-E-R. Thank you. I'm just wondering if there's any information as to, you know, what happens when they put the water main in? Will we still be able to use that easement? It's kind of unsafe for us to go out the other side of our driveway. So we haven't been given any information about the actual construction and timeline. And I think I saw in the plan there's a fence that will go up. It looks like it'll block our way to get out of our driveway the most safe way possible. Can somebody shed some light on how we're supposed to deal with this during construction and after? I can address that. Go ahead, Carol. Okay. So you will continue to have the easement is for you to use that front part of that as your driveway. Construction is not going to start until maybe in the spring because right now we cannot get the street open. So that probably will be a couple days that we would have to dig up that part of the easement that you have the right to use as your
the pipe is in then we're going to close it back up. So it's not going to be an extended period of time for construction to be on the part that you have the easement. And you would let them know ahead of time when you're planning on doing that with sufficient warning? Because we're not going to be able to do the work until springtime so that's why I have not contacted you as yet but as we get closer to the start of the construction I will reach out to you. Okay thank you Carol. And is there a plan will it be paved after the water main goes in or what's the intent for the final condition? Because right now it's paved. Yeah we will finish paving it so it will look the same as it was before. You're not going to pave the whole area you're just going to pave the driveway where it's currently paved. Correct yeah thank you for claiming it. Okay yes and sorry one more thing we I don't know if it shows up on the plan we have a big basin in our driveway I don't know if there's any lines that go into that part that has been considered there's a big catch basin that's you know very close to the easement and so I assume there might be some lines drainage lines there not sure if that's been considered. let me talk to the engineer about that because if there's an existing catch basin that part will remain no there isn't a catch basin on the plan is it a catch basin or a low area it's a low area we think it's like for overflow it's definitely a basin that catches water on our property but I think it connects over there and there okay I'll have the engineer go check it out and basically makes sense because if you look at the contour lines heading toward your property yeah it's higher away from your property and it gets lower going toward your property yes that's correct so maybe there's no conflict there but we just wanted to make you aware that that's it it's near it's near that you know where the easement is okay we'll have a check double check okay thank you thank you okay is there anybody else over okay um so we voted on this already and thank you carol um we'll have to sign these plans too or yeah okay so we need um mylar from you how i don't know however many you worked out the last time uh and then we'll sign it okay yeah that's uh two pages um i will have kevin produce the mylar and robert let me know when i can bring it in and robert do we we also need um paper copies too right yeah two two two
and just one paper copy one paper copy okay or two sets of mylars i guess what mylars and one set of paper okay okay thank you very much sorry i got through all that no problem all right good night good night thank you um jesse isn't here tonight and asked if we could put off the ground mounted solar discussion until the third but i think we're going to be overloaded on third so we'll see um i'd like to go over our schedules just a little bit um through january the 30th to see if people have availability these next meetings are probably going to be in-person meetings um we'll have the ability to uh do it by zoom if we have to but it's certainly a lot it's preferable for us all to be sitting in front of the audience if we can do that um so for robert had sent around um scheduling for where we are now and um we have uh on the third we have the coptic church and the carol school uh he put on the 10th we didn't really have a meeting as far as i know scheduled for the 10th but we might need to put one in there and we can talk about that in a minute we have the carol school on the 17th um there there there oh there's also on the 17th i'm just going down the calendar i'm sorry is that 17th for sure yes it's 7 to 15 we'll do it um i think i'll continue to the third so to the third to do that concom thing but then the rest of it we'll do on the i don't know if we continue we can't i don't remember the motion being continued it didn't but on the third we'll continue it to the 17th correct oh yeah i'm sorry we know it'll be on our you meant that i didn't do this yes okay so um okay so um that's the 17th their next meeting after that is january the 7th and then january the 28th we have two decisions to get out during this time frame um right now um the coptic church has given us until 1231 and the carroll school hopefully will give us until january the 30th but we have school vacations coming up and christmas and all of that stuff so i just wanted to know if any of you are out of pocket during that time and won't be able to be available to review decisions i will be away in december but i'll be around january but i think okay i think you said that you would be able to review them if we sent them to you anyway yes i can review them i'll just be in wisconsin i can't come sign something right but you could do um a zoom oh yeah yeah if there's a meeting i'll be on it right that's all we need and i'm not leaving till the 17th and i'll be back by the 7th by january 7th so and larry are you okay too or not yep i'm around okay great and i asked jesse to let me know but i haven't heard yet um about his schedule so um we're meeting on the third we're meeting on the 17th um i would actually prefer not to meet on the 10th if we don't have to agreed perfect is that okay with everyone absolutely please um okay um okay going down further we go into uh the next meeting in in january it's the 7th the 28th in the carroll school decisions the 30th then we have february 11th school vacation is 12 6th excuse me february the 16th through february the 20th and is that a problem for anybody right i mean or do you have any winter big winter plans when you guys won't be around okay i just want to i'm sorry i'm good for those dates okay great and how about and you robert have given us what where you're not okay and where you are okay and you won't be here for the meeting on the third but that's okay because in the area
we got a packet a while ago from the dpw from joe doucette with trees scenic road trees i'm hoping that you had a chance to look at the trees and or look at the pictures and decide if any of them are problematic i looked at them on i looked at the pictures i thought were excellent and then i went out and looked at a few that i just wasn't sure about and i looked at them and i wrote joe a note about two that i was concerned about and he answered me um so he likes to know if we have any issues beforehand because that will tell us how long the hearing is going to be no i have to schedule it that's why i'm asking have you guys been able to look at them or look at the pictures or have any issues or i looked at the pictures i figured i'd go out look at the trees before we had a hearing but if i know he wants to know beforehand i'll go out he does and the reason we said it when we did is because the leaves were still on the trees at this point the leaves aren't really on the trees they all looked pretty they were yeah they were in great shape last time they were more questionable trees this time it seemed like they were all really okay and you haven't looked at them yet either are okay i'm sorry larry larry says kill them all yeah let's kill them all thanks if you guys could over the next week maybe write me a note if you have an issue with any of the trees or ask joe he'll be happy to talk to you about them but i just want to know that we either have none or we have some problems so theoretically if you guys could work it out with joe we could just have a quick hearing unless there's a neighbor who has a problem but that's better than us all having a problem what if i want a tree down that's not on the list tell him you tell him and it might not be at this hearing but it'll be at another hearing whenever there's a tree that needs to go down on scenic road or regular road just let the dpw know cliff has done that would this be the forum to on plain road there's a tree with a big knot that sticks someone's gonna hit it that's been a contentious tree for years the person who always objected doesn't live on town anymore i'm wondering just about the knot what if you just remove the knot i don't know if the tree would live would it yeah i don't know you can ask joe why don't you send him a note he'll know which tree you're talking about yes he will all right don't let him throw it away if he's going to take it off you'll turn it on ugly make a bull yeah looking at that for a while it's a cross from farm it's either farmcrest or plain view i think it's farm crust it's by farm yeah if i do write him a note i will um is there anything else uh robert oh yes please uh we got a request from there's a meepo request for netherway joining the mwra water supply they're gonna the dbw is looking to build two structures and right now we're trying to decide if how it determines that the bylaw site plan is triggered and so one piece of it is triggered both vacant lots and then one is out if you're taking a building and you're rooming it and putting a new building on there so the vacant lot there's two pieces of properties that they're putting buildings the vacant lot should be fine i don't think it meets site plan and then the other question is is the other one has a structure on it and they get back to being what the size is my guy said probably not you can increase it by a certain percentage if it's a certain size and the percentages go up depending on the size of it and it looks like it's probably not going to increase beyond the percentage that's allowed robert robert and i went over it the bylaw is murder to read the site plan review bylaw you have to go back and forth and forth and back and forth and the way it's crafted i think probably they meant for it to be read one way but it's not what the words say so we went back and forth in the office and went over it together to just see if we really thought that for the vacant where it's vacant land if they really needed to have review and think it doesn't but other people can look at it what it says is that in one section if it's vacant land and you're putting something on it you have to have a review then when you go to the next section you have there are more questions they ask and they say well if these are all in the negative then you go back to the first provision and that first provision tells you what the site what the sizes of the buildings are can be but on that same thing it says what the percentage increase can be if you've got nothing on the lot exactly and it starts at 3,333 so because of the way it reads I think you just technically should be reading if it's below the 3,333 you don't need to have a review and if it were over then you might because the percentages don't come into play and we talked about the fact that if we're doing a flagpole that's a structure we're going to have to have site plan review to put up a flagpole I mean it just didn't make sense so that's sort of where we came out I'm good if you're happy in that I'm happy I told Robert it was his decision because he had to live with it for future applications is there anything else Robert that you need to talk to us about no I think there's future I
he's coming you'll be a million variances just think it'd be hospitals it's ZBA variances that would be probably not granted so he's looking for a sponsor for the playboy to change the zoning to increase the number of units per acre right and where that property is it's down in way below the street level already and you wouldn't even notice that it had gone up any higher and would it make sense if we knew I'm sure we know the absolute height the highest point on Alta so that we're sort of we allow them to be that would be pretty high well but they're down on the other side of the Sudbury dump valley there right so if the buildings were the same height as Alta is that okay buildings with the same height as the buildings would the appearance of the buildings would be the same height maybe you could ask him that he he's he's down low he's trying to model after yeah because if he wants to be higher than that people might not be very happy but if it was this if it appeared to be the same height as Alta people might be looking about 100 plus units potentially rental 10% would be
affordable units on can we tell we'll only approve it if he does more affordable units we can do lots of stuff he wants to come in actually he wanted to come in on the third oh my god I don't know maybe the 17th he wants to come at 12 o'clock at night yeah could we
possible and once you start adding affordable units I don't know but we can ask yeah you should ask him ahead of time and give him a heads up I mean in
come on the 17th then he will literally be at 10 o'clock at night if he tries for the third I think yeah you can tell him that he would have to be very late in
executive office of housing and community livable communities to just make sure that we don't have to go through a whole process again MBTA because what we're doing is everything was approved and now we're just increasing the number of units and increasing the height but will it be 50% or two thirds 50% of two thirds what how much of
think so I think it's still just a majority because it's housing I don't know I'll check again but I think that the housing bottom line if this is a project that actually happens the majority of the town should be like yes it's going to help the town out a lot if you can get a yeah except there are people who are probably happy that it's not there because it's going to make traffic worse so that's what you're going to hear from people traffic will be traffic people will go way yes yeah yeah and I thought we looked at the traffic before when we were setting up the zone yeah he's also considering putting potentially some mixed use in the bottom too it's considered it then he'd need a special person he's intrigued and think about he would go down that road this is down by Longfellow it's down by you know where the car dealerships on one side it's right across from there there's right where Longfellow is at the end his property is right at the beginning of that road on the right hand side the eastern side and there's a multi-story building there now okay anything else anything else by anybody else we have one thing on the storm water regs I think Tom Tom had a meeting tonight I had reached out to Linda several times and did not see an updated draft so not sure what they covered I happened to talk to Sean fair today and he told me that they weren't going to deal with it tonight because they hadn't seen the revised regulations yet either that that that that that that that that she said last to me so all right I don't know when they were I'll ask my husband when I get home I
and all Warren articles have to be in by January the 15th and for the zoning articles we should have a hearing on anything that we're proposing before that so we are on a forced march at the moment for all the zoning articles we know that we
and we need to get that immediately and what were the other articles we're hoping to do ground mounted solar but we can't and the ADU are those the housekeeping and ADU okay and I think Watkins if we are willing to do the thing I think he'd like that to try and be at this time meeting it's very simple we have to have a hearing so fitting all this stuff in before is a real issue we might have to add that other January before that it be submitted to the software by the 15 but we have to submit to the software to send it back to us remember that that's the process we'll do it both ways we'll be submitting it to them to go into the warrant and then we'll probably have had the hearing first we'll probably have had we'll work it
Christmas once and we have to have a notice in the newspaper and all of that so we have to have the actual materials ready before so that people can review it so we're again on another fourth March Robert what newspaper do you put it in these days just to mention yeah this comes out depends on what we're noticing some things have to be in two consecutive weeks and some things just have to be two times before the hearing it's easier than Metro West just because you line up correctly yeah but you can
otherwise if it's two consecutive weeks we have to do it in the Metro West Daily News where nobody will see right no make me a lot too you can go look at legal notice I went for website if you look at any legal notice matches that's how take a look at anything else anybody I move to adjourn okay is there a second all in favor Larry Kiernan yes yes yes yes good night every
I'm going to go over the agenda briefly and then tell you how we'll proceed this evening. I'll do a very quick public comment, very quick, for matters not on the agenda. Then I will open the hearing on Setta Wood Lane, 2505, and then I will recess that hearing to be reconvened after the next item, which is PB2503, continued public hearing on 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School Site Plan approval. And we had on the agenda to discuss ground-mounted solar and energy storage systems, but the member who was supposed to be doing that told us today that he wasn't coming. Then we have updates from the town planner, board comments and concerns, and then matters not reasonably anticipated by the chair 48 hours in advance of the meeting. Who knows what's going to happen tonight? So Larry's here too. Larry, can you say that you're here, please? Present. Thank you. Thank you. So we, I'm going to open the hearing on Setta Wood Lane, which is PB2505, 3, 5, and 7, Setta Wood Lane. It's an application for an amendment to the previously issued May 13, 2025, amended definitive subdivision approval for 13 Cherena Road. That matter was PB2407, to modify the location of the water main. I know that in the audience, Ms. Setta Wood is here, and I explained to her previously before the meeting opened how I would handle this evening, so she's prepared for that. So I'd like a motion to continue or recess 2505 until 7, 45, 8, 45, 9, until 9 p.m. So I move that we continue to, that we recess on application 2505, Setta Wood, until 9 p.m. Is there a second? I'll do. All in favor, Robin? Yes. Ira? Yes. Ira? Yes. Annette, yes. Okay, moving on. It's, we're going to be discussing continued public hearing on PB2503, 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School Site Plan approval. Um, I'm not sure how the applicant wants to proceed, um, and I will turn it over to them first, if, if they have a presentation that they want to make. Will they be able, do they need this microphone up there, if they're going to talk for us? Oh, sure.
That's fine.
Feel free. Okay, you're going to, is it possible for us to control? Do you have, like, a, it just might be easier, just especially for your, that's what I was trying to see if I could log on to. Yeah, if you have it, that's, that's fantastic.
Very good. We'll jump right in, um, Carrie DeLeo, school or consulting group with the owner's project manager for the project. Um, our goals tonight are to just bring the board and the public up to speed on what we have done since you last saw us. The last time you all, we were all together was public hearing, um, or sorry, public comment period, um, and so since then, um, so that people can see the, um, so since we, we have the public comment meeting, um, on the 29th of October, we did submit, um, a response to the, many of the questions that we had been given, not only from the neighbors, but also from the town, from, uh, local, uh, both planning, police, fire, um, et cetera, uh, from both the town of Whalen and the town of Lincoln. Um, we also, uh, have since had some correspondence directly. The school has had some direct correspondence with neighbors about some of these items. Um, we received the, the responses from ECT and we were able to respond back to them. So that is back into the town as of today. Um, and I believe ECT is in receipt. Um, the, what we're going to do today is not really get into the meat of what those are because obviously ECT will need to re re review, but we wanted to just highlight what we heard from those comments and what we are doing or have done to respond. So there were, uh, some requests in there from, for some additional traffic counts and tabulations. Uh, those counts have been completed, but they are being, uh, reviewed by the traffic engineer at, at the moment, um, and it should be, should be done well in advance of our next hearing. Uh, there was also a request to do some additional test pits on campus, uh, in the locations where the stormwater detention was, was located. Uh, we received comments back from board of health and we're able to do a resubmission to them to address their comments. Again, those went in today, um, and, and hopefully that will resolve, uh, any of the comments there that went in with a revised set of plans that will also be submitted back to this group. Uh, and then again, today, what we're hoping to cover with you is, um, where we did the additional traffic study review, the process for what we envisioned the dismissal protocol might look like on, on the site, uh, review landscaping, lighting design, and then start the conversation around conditions of approval, really, uh, in the sense of regrouping on what was approved and the types of things that were part of that decision in 2016 and the types of things that we would expect to be part of this decision.
Okay. So again, highlights. So from traffic, we did do additional counts, uh, at the intersection of 117 and Lincoln Road. Uh, there was a request that, uh, when we had submitted previously, we submitted the peak hours of, uh, peak flow on Waltham Road. We added a third piece, which would be school dismissal time. And those calculations will be in the revised response. Um, and then there was also a request that we, we locate, um, some, any additional crash data that might be available from the Wayland and police, uh, Lincoln police.
We've heard from both. Was there a question? Okay. We've heard from both, but we don't, we have information from one time, not the other, we're, we're working, um, but we have made contact with both and, and that is being assembled. Um, from a stormwater perspective, uh, we did do additional test pits out, uh, in the front of the school, uh, in locations where detention was proposed. And then there was some, uh, feedback, I think actually directly from, um, the conservation commission, uh, about some storm runoff that is happening in existing condition that they wanted to make sure we address. So both of those have been, um, received and are in review. And then board of health, uh, they asked for some existing conditions, um, reports on, on some manholes that exist on campus right now. And then they also asked if we could separate, um, the flow into two, uh, two tanks for the fish center and the new building, even though they have a combined leaching field.
So again, just wanted to highlight, this is the graphic we showed you before the blue being what had already been studied. The yellow here is, is pointing towards the intersection that was added. Um, again, we added that additional dismissal peak time, uh, on Waltham Road, which we identified as two 30 to three 30 in the afternoon. The crash data, uh, request. Um, and then the other thing we did was we dove a little bit deeper into the dismissal process at the Lincoln campus. So again, a reminder, the school has a similar, uh, population of students at Lincoln and a similar dismissal process that we would propose. So we wanted to understand not only what we were thinking, but how do Carol parents and Carol students actually participate in this activity, um, as well as the oversight that goes along with that. So we'll run, we'll run through that as well.
The additional peak time analysis, um, was evaluated, you know, that two 30 to three 30 period of time, it does increase flow. What was found is that, um, that flow will raise the, the flow on Waltham Road during that time, but it's still a less, uh, less of a burden on the, on the road than it is at the normal kind of commuter time of four 30 to five 30. Um, the morning, uh, peak. We, we also made sure we reviewed that in the context of the overall, uh, flow on the, on the road, um, there is a little bit of an overlap with morning commute and, and school commute, but it's a little bit more spread out because kids are usually there, uh, often kids are there before the morning commute time, as well as the drop-off period is much longer. So it doesn't really create the pinch point that the pickup, um, process does, um, our traffic engineer feels very strongly that even with the full proposed load, Waltham Road is not even close to its design capacity. I think there's about 1900 total trips on that road, which is actually not that much in the context of a full, uh, a full day. Um, and then again, we'll review the way that they do, uh, the school does dismissal at Lincoln and, and show how that process would overlay onto this, this site.
So I'm going to just let Chris speak a little bit about what, what is done now. And then we'll look at that. Okay. So I think the, the protocol, one way to think about how we view our protocol is to always have adults involved and commingled with all the students. And that's really important that we have an adult presence throughout the entire process, as opposed to a school that just opens a door and everybody goes out into a parking lot. And then the cars come. Yeah. I just hear. I'm not supposed to be there. I just think that I'm going to go home to walk myself through the other day.
All right.
So the, the process is really guided by the faculty members, uh, who are, uh, in each of the grades, they're commingled around all the students. Uh, the first thing really thing to highlight is that the students are expected to be, uh, packed outside and ready before three o'clock. So we begin this process well before three. It's not like the bell happens at three o'clock and then every scrambles to put on their coats and their bags and then get out at three o'clock it starts and everybody's already ready at that point, uh, jumping down for the, to the bottom, the teachers on duty. So we have three adults per grade, uh, and all three grades are in sort of separate areas right now. So they're not just everybody running around in a playground. They're sort of confined and, and, and, and different corrals. Um, all the adults have two way radios and they're spread out among the students. And I think the two way radios is really important because the way Lincoln is designed or is, uh, is built. There's, I mean, it's a large hill, so the students are on top of the hill. They have to walk downstairs. So it's a very much of a, uh, kind of a windy path to get down to the cars. So the two way radios there are essential to be able to communicate without line of sight between adults. Uh, and then dismissal team will have, and this is for individuals right now, and this is what works in Justin Lincoln. So we'll have one teacher at the, uh, at the head of the, um, where all the cars pull in right at the head to make sure that they're dismissing, uh, cars smoothly and making sure kids aren't crossing. Uh, we have a staff member that is at the entrance of the property down by Baker Bridge Road, monitoring exactly how far cars are getting close to the road. And when they do get close, then we open up the overflow area and start pulling people on. And then we also have two individuals, two faculty members that are walking between the cars, uh, collecting names and then calling, uh, calling each car up to the teachers. And then when that happens, they're fairly far back in the pickup line. So it's enough time. We, we time it so they're, they're positioned within the pickup line so that by the time it gets called up to the student, they're down. And when the car gets to the front of the line, the student is already at the bottom, uh, by the, what we call the gate, which is where we let people go. So it's a process that seems like it's a little bit of a, a dance with a lot of moving parts. But there's two things that are really essential that we have communication throughout, uh, through the radios and there's adults all around. What about arrival time? Uh, when do cars start lining up? No, when they, in the morning, when the students are dropped off in the morning. I mean, how does it go? Yeah. How does, what's the procedure? Uh, they just pull in, drop off, and then the, the, the student goes up into the, to the school and then the parent just leaves. Okay. There's no, there's no, uh, oh, I guess your answer your question. There's no standard protocol. Right. Because the, the drop off is actually a much broader time period. And it can be almost like an hour and a half. And the children walk in by themselves and there's not an adult there. No, there is an adult who's receiving all the series. They're trying to match kids with cars. Right. They just get out and go. Yes. The adults are there just to make sure that kids aren't running around and they're headed up into the classroom. Um, so the last time, um, I'm Michelle Crowley, the landscape architect. Um, and the last time we presented the dismissal, we just showed a static, uh, image of. The parking lot at, at sort of full capacity, which has a queuing of 110 cars and where the first group is getting loaded and then they move off and the new group comes in. So we wanted to just share, um, how this process works over time. So at two 30, um, before, um, as Chris was saying, students are starting to collect there, but some parents come and ahead of time and they wait. Um, and so this is showing about 10 to this was, this was, um, all. Again, designed on how many people are waiting at Lincoln. And so we're, we're basing it off of that. So two 30, there are 10 to 15 cars waiting. There's two school buses waiting for the, for the students at to interrupt. How many students are at Lincoln currently 238. It's almost an identical number, the same grade level. These will be, uh, more older kids, right? So Lincoln is well right now, Lincoln is six, seventh and eighth grade at 238 kids. And this proposed, um, project would educate 240 kids, grades seven, eight, and nine.
Um, so at two 40, now there are 30 to 35 cars waiting and still the, uh, the two school buses. Um, this is, I know it's a little bit, it's a little bit off. Okay. Um, at two 50 there, now there's about 50 to 55 cars waiting. Um, and then at three o'clock pickup starts. And so by now, uh, the students of those first cars have been called and they start loading. Uh, one of the buses has been, uh, left and another school buses come in. Um, and then at three Oh five that you can see the first batch of cars, uh, coming out and more cars are coming in. And then at three 10, we're getting to closer to capacity here. And then we start, uh, by three 20, we've gone through the line. And by three 30, it's the last of the cars. So, um, I just wanted to kind of go through this more like an animation just to show you, like, this is kind of. Oh, that didn't work as well as I wanted it to. Yeah. You gotta like work your way down.
Anyway. Um, and so that's just a little bit more of, uh, showing you sort of the dismissal process and how we're moving cars, uh, through because last time it was really static. Um, this is the same lighting plan that was also shown. Um, just to wait for questions or would you like. As you're going through the things. It's up to you. I also noticed Sally Murphy has a raised hand. I don't know if we want to not, not the public yet. Okay. If you go back for a minute to the traffic, um, the ones where you are essentially fully loaded in the right there. Yeah. Um, if you have an emergency, how are they getting in? I can see you can get in up to a certain point on the west. Yeah. So the, um, emergency can come in, uh, on the west or also where the buses come in. They can go around all of those cars. And by that time they would just then release all the cars and just get them moving. Um, and the kids would not get loaded. Um, and then the, uh, emergency vehicle could come right in. Um, they would merge right in ahead of all of the rest of the cars. So as soon as a car comes in there, they would be releasing people so that they could come in. Okay. Thank you. Um, so the, the lighting plan is just the same. We're showing, um, that we are extending the parking lot lights. Uh, we have them, we have lower levels of light. And so the parking lights are a little closer together. So we don't have, um, really, they don't have to be super tall and they don't, we won't have dark spots in between. Um, on the south side are more pedestrian level lights. Um, and these are all going to be timed together. They'll be grouped. So the parking lots will be grouped and the pedestrian lights will be grouped so that they only are on when they're needed and, um, and turned off. So none of the back lights will be on, um, you know, during, you know, after, if there's not an activity going on, on the outside, and then the parking lot lights will be, uh, turned off after the end of, uh, if there's nothing going on in school, uh, the, the lighting will not be on, uh, throughout the night. So I have a question. I was out watching the Aurora Borealis at Ponyhenge. And I drove by the school at nine and 10 o'clock at night. And every single light inside the fish center was on is, and I've seen that before late at night. Um, it seems silly to be turning off the outside lights when every single light inside is on. I don't know why that was. If you have cleaners who come through, but they certainly, there can't be enough cleaners that they need every single light in. So if that's something that can be addressed, it's not a part of this, but if we're talking about lighting, that's really not dark sky compliant to have every single light building on. No, there, there was actually one instance where the cleaners never showed up for us. And they were out at Ponyhenge watching the Aurora Borealis. Yeah, but they're, they're on timers. And so, uh, they should be off. Yeah, that was late. And I've seen them late also another time. And the new building would require motion sense. So same, same thing. Those would go off. Whereas I think there's probably a lot of, um, leftover light switches, you know, maybe that are being more dependent on cleaners too. Yeah. At fish. Thank you. The lighting, is this your photometric thing? Yes. Okay. Because on the other one, it was this year it is too. Okay. Go ahead. Um, so this is the photometric that we, uh, sent in. Um, we have outlined where there is, uh, zero foot candles. Um, and so all the foot candles are staying, uh, within the campus with the exception of it creeping over Waltham road, just where the parking lot gets really close. So we're going to take a closer look at that and see why that's happening because all of the lights are, um, you know, they, they supposedly have no backlight, um, and it's working everywhere else. And so I'm just, we're going to talk to the lighting designers to say what's going on right there. And, and, um, but then this is also then showing, uh, the lights. So the parking lot fixture is the existing fixture that's out there. So we'll be continuing that, uh, just in the parking areas. Um, the landscape baller lights are on the pathways, um, just at the front, getting to the front door. Um, the rear sight lighting is just some lights in the back there that, uh, are low, um, and at a pedestrian scale, but they can shine. Um, there's three lights on them so that they can shine. So we don't have to have a lot of these, um, if you try, if we try to do bollards all in the back, we'd have a lot of bollards to try to light the area. So this, we can really safely light it with the most, you know, minimal amount of lights. And then the pedestrian walk at the front is the light at the bottom. And that is just along the front of the road where all the drop off happened. So it's a different, it's not the same as the parking lot fixture. Um, and that is, uh, that is it on the lighting. Um, we're going to move on. Bill, you want to talk about conditions of approval? Uh, good evening for the record. I'm Bill Proya, representing the school. And just a couple of comments on the conditions. I know, um, there might not have been a lot of, um, understanding or memory of those conditions. I think there were 14 or so in that 2016 site plan approval. And, you know, we made the representation last time and again in writing that the school is open to similar kinds of conditions. And I, I did hear from Attorney Hill today, we are going to be in contact about maybe some additional conditions that the neighbors are interested in to address some of their concerns. So I just wanted everyone to know that we're not here saying, you know, take it or leave it. We're trying to work through these with everyone and to balance all the interested parties. So, so, um, will you be submitting your proposed conditions? We can, I don't know how you will consider if there are others that we want. Yeah, sure. We can do that. And again, I will, I will reach out again to attorney Hill and we can talk about input from that side and we can get those going and before the board and the neighbors to take a look at. But again, they would be those kinds of similar things. Something you see right there about the athletic fields. I I'm sure they have the 2016 decision so they can take a look at those conditions to see things that we're kind of talking about. I know there's real interest in traffic, obviously in parking. So, uh, we expect those to be, uh, you know, discussed and reviewed and revised as we go along. But that's really it. They should, you know, they should be similar. And we want to make sure that things are operating smoothly for everyone. And there's a document to look at to understand how, how the school should be operating for everyone's sake. So we all know how the rules of the road out there.
The other piece of it, I know there's been probably some frustration. We've had some bad timing with our traffic engineer. He, he was booked again tonight. So we will be sure to have him at the next hearing for people to hear his presentation specifically. And I know ECT probably will have their comments back by then. So that could be a very productive conversation. And same thing for, for Sean Malone. He would have been here tonight. He's double booked at the conservation commission. Hopefully we won't have that kind of. Conflict next time we try to schedule these things a little bit more. And I've talked to the chair of the conservation commission. I've been trying to reach him for weeks, but we finally talked today. And I told him that we would like to have to provide hearings with them on stormwater and any tree stuff so that we just all hear the same thing. And we can just make a decision. And because we've had an incident where we approve something after a long, long, long, long set of hearings. And then they went to conservation and conservation changed. But conservation could have weighed in earlier, but didn't. And I don't want to do that here. And you feel that that's going to happen. I have no idea what's going to happen. I don't want it to happen. No, I mean, I mean the joint here. Oh, yes. Sorry. Yes, it sounded like he was on board and he. And I know that the staff has been trying tonight. It was a problem to be in that room and be together. It's a long story. But technically we had issues. Yeah. I think everyone will benefit. I think so too. If we can pull that off. I think it's our last slide.
Yeah. So I think our, you know, we also wanted to make sure we were clear on what the next steps are. So we know we need to be seen by conservation. And make sure that we get the peer review comments addressed. We know that we need to get the peer review comments for the address as well. Again, those were submitted, but we now need to give ECT some time to digest them and respond. We do still need to be seen and heard by the design review advisory board, which we're hoping to do probably in the coming weeks just to get that going. And then, you know, we wanted just to make sure we were clear on what else you all need to see from us or hear from us outside of what we may have already shown you or what was in our application. And, you know, again, I think having that one conversation around stormwater will be great, the trees and things like that. And then, you know, as Bill indicated, starting this conversation, you know, between the neighbors and ourselves and you all about what those conditions might want to look like. And if you'd like us to give you our first draft, we can start it there. That's fine. I think, you know, a lot of them would be a similar ilk to what was discussed last time. That would be fine. But I think that before you submit them, if you've had your discussion with the neighbors first, that would be most helpful.
Is there anything else, you know, like Bill said, we would like to make sure our traffic engineers at the next meeting, just so that if there are specific questions, a lot of the information that he is going through is calculations and things that probably most of us in this room don't know how to talk about. But specific questions about how those are done and methodology and all that, you know, we are not educated enough to answer those. So we'd like to have him there, even if it's just a field questions. Okay. Right now, we've got you down for a decision by the 16th. I don't think that is viable. Okay, just checking. So we have two big projects in front of us. And we're trying to do one one week, one another so that people aren't sitting here for all hours of the day and night. So our next hearing session, I have to check with the board. We tentatively, Robert put in December the 10th. Will you be ready by then or should you be waiting until December 17th? I don't want to have a meeting and not make real progress. What I would say is we're ready now because we have gone through the comments that we've received and responded so far. But if something comes back in the meantime, I don't know. So we need to have our peer reviewer look at the information and be able to get back to you. And we haven't talked to your traffic person yet. So we need, if he's having new stuff, we need to have that in advance of the meeting so that the peer reviewer can look at it and then proceed. So you need to tell us what is realistic.
Yeah, let's keep it, you know, conservative. Let's do the 17th. And so we can
be as responsive as possible to intervening comments that we may get. Okay. Larry and Ira, are you here on the 17th? I guess we'll be talking later about our overall schedule. But are you around then? Or are you going to tell me later that you can't come? Ira? Larry? Larry's here.
Ira, are you not here? His camera is muted. Okay. Okay. So that would be on the 17th. Larry, are you good for the 17th? He said he was. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And probably we would do that like at 715. As far as my people show up. 715. And we'll set that up in a minute. For a decision, can we move out into January? Sure. Because, okay. And the meetings in January are the 7th and the 28th. The 7th would be the first meeting after the 17th. So I don't know if that was really a good date. The 28th, if that's possible, would be a good time. If we could do it early. If we could issue a decision earlier, we would. Okay. Yeah. I mean, can we see how, can we see how the 17th goes in nature? Sure. I just need to have an extension of time on the record because 1216 is the date current. Right. So you can decide how you'd like to do that. But we want to just plan it so that we know that we're around to review a decision. If we meet on the 17th, there may or may not be any more questions that might be all resolved by then. And that would be great. And then we'd be able, I would prefer not to have to work over Christmas, but if we have to, we do. And then our next meeting is the 28th. So that would be the most logical time to extend to. Yeah, we can, we can do that. And if I'll take, we want it to be like two days after. Yeah. I was just going to say like the next day or the day after that, because the 28th is our meeting date. And then we would be looking at the decision and voting it and then have to file it. So 30th. What day is the 30th? Friday. Friday.
Again, if everything went better and we could do it earlier, we would try to do it earlier. So the 17th, that's the concept is, would have the CONCOM as well.
Is that, do they have a meeting that day? Or when do they have their meeting, their next meeting?
Did they continue their hearing tonight to when? The 3rd of December? Yeah. Yeah. It's conceivable. We have the Coptic church that evening. It's conceivable that on the 3rd, if that's when they're meeting, that we could do a combined partial hearing combined on stormwater and trees, and then the rest of it with you. And we would try and do it at the town building on the rest of your project because they won't. So potentially, potentially the 3rd and then the 17th with the planning board and the 3rd with both. If we can get everything in on the, yeah, maybe the 3rd and the 17th. So the 3rd for maybe a joint, if not maybe a joint on the 17th. Yeah. I mean, we would be ready for that for sure. We were ready for tonight, but they wanted to wait and make sure they had, they had a chance to review what we submitted, which is understandable. Okay. So that would be good if that's when they're planning on meeting. So, um, and, uh, I just want to get everything tied down before I may ask for a motion. So, um, we will try to have a combined hearing with the conservation commission on December the 3rd on stormwater and trees, um, and anything else they think is in common. And we'll check ahead and make sure you know exactly what, and then we would, uh, recess, not recess. Yeah. Take a break and then move into another room and then do the rest of the project. If you're ready to do that with us. So that would be on the 3rd. So, um,
but for, well, you won't be ready for the rest of it. Will you? It really depends on what ECT comes back with, I think. But we also have the Coptic church on the 3rd. So why don't we do just that joint part on the 3rd and then do everything else on the 17th. That's fine. And what, what time is the Coptic church? It's like 17, 7.30 or something like that way. Well, hold on. Let me just make sure I have it ready. through it. Uh, uh, 17th at the Coptic church.
So it would be later in the evening. 7.70. I'm thinking. No, please try it. I gave him my spare chair. Hi, Ira. Do you think? Why do you say how much time I want the Coptic church? I know. Right. So board 7.15, we start with the Coptic church. We could go until, um, 8.45. Or if you think we need to go longer, we can go longer. I know record record my I will. I think very spot. That's an hour and a half. About 13. An hour. Hour 15 inch. I'm sorry. 7.15, 7.15. Yeah, but last time they went way over. 7.15 to 8.15. That would be an hour and a half. 7.45. I mean 8.45. Okay. 8.45. And then you need to make sure that Linda schedules it. So that we can do this.
Um, can I have a motion? All right. You have to mute the meeting. Sorry.
You did. Now we can still hear it.
Okay. Can I have a motion? You can turn the speaker off. Oh, sorry. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Um, is there any public comment? So sorry. Yeah, there is. I have a Sally Murphy. Okay. I was scared. And she's gone. Is there just one person online? She's off now. She's off now. Nobody else. Oh, no, she's back.
Yes, you hear you. Hi. Uh, sorry. My name is Sally Murphy. I am at 33 Long Meadow Road in Lincoln. Um, I really had a question more at the beginning. I just, I couldn't, um, chime in unmuted. It's more about the traffic. I know that you're waiting for your traffic engineer to come, uh, propose the study or give us the feedback. I'm wondering if they're going about this differently than they did when Carroll School first came in and conducted the traffic study. Or are they conducting a very similar traffic study? Do you know? Um, before they answer, um, in the future, can all comments be directed to the chair? And the chair will make sure that the answer is received. So, um, I'll turn it over to the Carroll School now to answer. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't, I don't know the essence of your question except that I think there's a standard protocol for how traffic studies are, are conducted. You know, that there's, there's guidelines and that's what they've done is, you know, area, roadways, intersections, um, et cetera, uh, that should be impacted or could be impacted. Um, I'm not sure if there's a specific question about how it was done before versus now that could raise some of color.
Okay, that's, um, is there any other public comment, Mr. Hill? All right, thank you, uh, members of the board, uh, my name is Ian Hill, an attorney in the land use of zoning, and I represent, uh, many, not most of the neighbors have letters to Carroll School. I did submit the letters to the board, and I also copied, uh, on that letter as well. Um, I had a couple of questions and then I had comments. Um, the first question has to do with, uh, uh, I was told by Linda Hanson that the conservation commission was waiting for a peer review and. We have a peer review. I guess the question is, are they doing a separate peer review? No, they're using the same peer review consultant and they've had that for a while. Yeah, that was seven weeks ago, right? That's correct. Okay, so that, then, okay. Um, and then, I think what I heard in the, in the initial presentation was that the school's responses to ECT's peer review was submitted today. Yep. And was that submitted to the board as well as ECT? Yep. Okay. I, I, I, I sent it to everyone. Can you send it to Dan as well? I don't send it to Dan. Oh. I mean, we got like 12 in the afternoon. Sorry. No, it's fine. It's, it's, it's posted in the day. It's posted online. It is posted online, so. Okay. It's available online, Dan. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then on, in, in the November 7th letter, um, we, in Denver, if we have respect for a lot of time, basically consolidating all of the comments that, that we all have made over the last month, um, because we, we realized that it's been kind of scattered shot, right? We, we've sent multiple letters to Lincoln, to Wayland. And so the purpose of the November 7th letter is really to compile everything in one place. And we have 29 substantive areas of concern, which I would call, you know, categories. And within those 29 categories, there are comments and questions. And then below that, there were five requests for additional information and action items. Um, it was my hope that the applicant would have responded to that that line by line, point by point, but, um, that didn't happen. And that's their prerogative. Right. And I think that, um, in the responses that they've been given that we got today, I think they were trying to answer a number of those questions. Okay. It wasn't, it wasn't a reason. It was a response to EC, to the consultants peer review, but many of the things that you've been asking for were mentioned in the consultant's report. Okay. And were mentioned at our last meetings. Yes. Okay. Can I also add that we previously to your letter, we did the same thing and aggregated all of the comments and sent a letter on the seven, probably passing in the internet. Um, so many of them should have been answered there as well, to the extent that they were clickable to be answered by the design. Yeah, I did read your letter and I think some of them were addressed, um, but a lot weren't and, um, I think it's okay. I'd like to just, you know, briefly run through the highlights and the first issue is the, as long, let me just say this, as long as it's something that we can deal with via the Dover amendment restrictions. Yes. Otherwise do it offline with the applicant. Well, the, everything that we've raised is jurisdictional to the planning. Um, not really. I, I, I, I, I, I sense their skepticism. Yes. Because I've looked at, I've looked at them. I've done some new research over the last couple of days. And, um, the board is not limited to the specific categories that are in section three. Those are broad categories. And there's actually a case law that has addressed this very question because other cities and towns have looked at issues that perhaps perhaps you can share that with us. I'm familiar with the Tufts case, which basically says you can't deal with traffic. Well, the Tufts case actually explains that there, you can go beyond, they don't say that word for word, but the, the crux of the Tufts case is that the city of Medford was not limited to the specific enumerated categories that are in section three. So the, the, the greater point here is that you cannot unreasonably regulate the over amount of uses and you cannot apply standards that are, that are different than you otherwise apply to other uses in town. Um, and it's not what the attorney general's guidance says. I am not sure what it says. And, and we can, it's, uh, is that on our webpage too, Robert? No, if it's not, can you put it up? So, I mean, I guess on an issue of traffic, since you raised it, um, I would argue that the traffic impacts of this project are germane to the sports review because the applicants gave you a traffic center. Um, the applicant opened the door, um, and the applicant did the right thing. It hired a traffic engineer and it did a study, which the applicant should be applauded to do because the applicant thought that traffic was outside of Dover. It wouldn't have done that. That's not, I don't want to get into an argument. I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that they're trying to be as responsive to the neighbors as possible. And they put in as complete an application as they felt they could, even though, uh, some of the things aren't necessarily covered by Dover. So, um, so I don't, I don't think that it's in our purview to demand of them to do certain things. We asked them at the last meeting and they have responded and they are doing the things that we asked them to do, to look at additional intersections, to look at what the roadway looks like when, uh, they're doing dismissal. Um, they're responding to what they can. Uh, you had also asked if we would hire a traffic engineer, the engineer that we have, we have hired to do traffic as well. So, we're not in a position to ask the applicant, uh, or ourselves to hire another peer reviewer. Does the peer review firm hire? I don't know if they specialize in traffic. It's part of the RFP that went out. They responded to it and that's what they're doing. All right. Well, our argument is that the board received a professional prepared and is going to be receiving some information from the traffic engineer that was hired by the applicant and the board should have someone equally qualified to review it. And I don't know the qualifications of Mr. Creel. It's not Mr. Creel. There's someone else in the, in the organization. We can certainly ask for their qualifications, but in responding and I, I do not pick the, uh, people who are selected for RFPs. It was done by the select board's office. Um, they're the ones who are supposed to be looking at that. We write the criteria that we want and they're supposed to be looking at that. When is the additional traffic data going to be submitted? Uh, we heard tonight that additional trip counts were, what did they said that they would be read, they would submit it in advance of September the 17th and enough time for your reviewer to look at it and then you would be able to look at it at the same time. We'll talk to the traffic engineer tomorrow and we'll let everyone know when to expect it. Thank you. I can't say right now, but. Um, related to traffic is, is the drop off of pickups. And yeah, that was one of the things that we asked for was what I call a transportation manager commandment and saw some slides tonight, which we'll see. Um, there was also a reference in, uh, a treaty for the letter that suggested that that would be a condition of approval that they would submit a plan later for your consideration. Um, I want to warn the board that it can't impose conditions in a decision that would require an applicant to come back before you at some future date with additional plans and details and subject that to, to additional approvals. Um, there's impressed, there's a, why would we do that? Well, that's what the applicant suggested. No, that isn't what he suggested. Yeah, no, I just, just to clarify what our intention is, is to include a protocol document with the decision, with the decision. So that's something that they need to work with you on and your clients to come up with hopefully, um, an agreed upon list of those things that you'd like to see in the decision. And I mean, agreed upon by two, and if it's not agreed upon by two, then we'll take what the school has agreed to with you and you can submit your own separately and then we'll go from there. Yeah. I mean, it would be similar to the attachment to the 2016 decision. So we are working on a revision to that. Okay. I mean, to be clear, we want to work with the school to review the plan and provide feedback. I just, when I read the letter, I thought the intent was to file something after the decision. So that would be filed before the public hearing is closed, will allow for us to review it. Um, hopefully you will have reviewed it in advance before it gets filed with us. Right. Um, same thing with construction, excuse me, the construction management plans. Um, that should be something that's reviewed during this hearing. Um, so I don't know. I'm sorry. We're not going to be reserving stuff for another time. Everything will be within this hearing. Okay. So again, maybe I'm going to start the letter. I thought, I thought the applicant was suggesting that would be conditional approval. So that one we did. And I think that's still going to be our point of view. We don't have a general contractor on board. We, we just can't come up with a construction management plan. We can come up with some, some broader outlines of it, but it's not going to be a detailed staging plan or construction management plan. I think at a minimum we need to know hours of operation, parking on site,
how far away from neighbor properties you're going to be when you're doing the work, that sort of thing. Yeah. We'll come up with as detailed the plan as we can at this point and see how the discussion goes. With respect to the drainage and hydrology issues, um, there was reference to additional test picks being done and so forth. Was that data filed today with that response? Yes. Yeah. So everything that you've done now is now filed? Correct. Except the final tabulation of the traffic accounts that are, that should be eminent. Right. But on the, on the, on the, but all the sites civil. Yep. Always in today's. Yep. Okay. Um, okay. So I'll look forward to reading that letter. Um, and then with respect to the other 29 comments, and I don't want to send an hour going through these tonight, or we probably don't want to be there, but is it, can we ask the applicants to respond to our points or? They can decide. I think that you guys need to talk to each other and decide how you want to work together. I don't think it's fair to ask the applicant to respond point by point to every one of your concerns, because most of them aren't part of the hearing process. Well, they don't have to, but, but we should, if they're not going to, then we should have the ability to express our concerns. I think you can express your concerns. Again, if it's not something that we think is jurisdictional, you can express them, but we can't do anything about them. Okay. Um, so I think one of the big questions we had was what is the plan for the maintenance facilities on, on the site? Um, the current maintenance schedule is being lost and I haven't seen, or I don't think we understand where the maintenance occur and whether there's any maintenance being, being proposed on apple tree. I think that they answered that, but I'm sure that they can answer it again for you. I'm happy to take that. So yeah, so the, there's some general maintenance operations that are happening at 37 right now because they have the space. Um, some of those operations are going to move back to Lincoln, uh, just because that building will no longer be there. Right. So the intent is that, um, in the maintenance staff will work out of the school buildings that the, the, um, existing garage that's off of apple tree, uh, will be used similar to how it is now holding mowing equipment, things like that. So there will be some access to that building to bring out, you know, uh, small equipment like that, but the kind of big, uh, facilities management stuff is going to move away from, from the site back to Lincoln things like storing sand piles and salt piles and things like that. So the equipment and other things associated with maintenance for the way on campus will be housed in the garage that's on apple tree? I think things like mowing, mowing equipment and maybe snowblowers, just there's whatever is there right now. I think is the intent to keep those items still there. It's mostly off, off season, uh, storage. So we have snowblowers there now. We have our salters there now. Uh, the mowers are up. And so when, uh, when the seasons change, then we'll take the snowblowers out. We'll move them up by the school. Uh, the salt shed that's there that is going to be transferred back to, uh, Lincoln. There's a salt shed there right now. And so we're just going to drain this winter, the salt that's there and just dismantle it. One other, just one addition too, is that, um, each of our campus has a facilities lead. There's just a person, a one person. Um, and that's exactly the staffing that we have now and will remain. So the traffic pattern on apple tree will just be that one person in a truck. Um, so there won't be new staffing, um, in addition to the storage use that's, that's currently happening. Okay. And what about the, so the property that you own on apple tree to call the sack? There's actually a large field behind the house. Is, is any of that part of any, are you planning any change of use of that, of, of that land back there as part of this project? Nope. And in fact, there was an A&R file for this project and that parcel's not part of that at all.
Is there a weekend and evening event calendar or schedule? I mean, I, what are you planning on using the campus for on weekends and evenings? Is it going to change from what is current, what the current use is? I have no plans to make any changes to current use on the weekends. So the, the facilities will not be available for rents to private parties? No.
May I make a suggestion that we work on the conditions because going through this like this is pointless if you ask me. So I will make an effort to talk to attorney Hill and answer those questions, get draft conditions going if they're appropriate. Yeah. That, if, if we can maybe go through this list bill, um, as part of that conversation, I think that I agree. I don't want to waste time, but I also like, I want to get responses. So, um, why do we do that? Yeah. Do you have anything else, Stan, that you want to, um, no, let me just double check on our, our action items. So, you know, hire a traffic reviewer. We have a traffic reviewer. Um, something's going to be provided. Yeah. Just recognizing we won't have a contractor doing it. So we'll fill in the blanks that we can, but it will have to be more detailed when it approaches. But I assume the building department can help us make sure that it's appropriate before we start. Great. Thank you. Thanks. Are there any other public comments? Yes. Just identify yourself and where you live. I'm Colin Sullivan, uh, 37 Long Widow Road. I would live directly across from the Carroll School.
One thing that, uh, don't want to lose sight of is that, before getting into more comments, is that the Carroll School does have great mission and it does have a very needed mission. And we and other neighbors have had family that have very much benefited from the Carroll School. And you know, we recognize the mission is important. I do hope that it thrives in the future and it keeps growing. The, the admiration that I do have for the school or the respect I do have for the school doesn't diminish the concern that I have that some issues have not been fully addressed. The, the slides that are really helpful to get a view of that, uh, pick up and drop off plan. Clearly, there's a lot of thought that went into that, but there's, there's an element of trust that goes into that plan that it's hard for us in the community to bridge the gap between what's intended and what's going to happen. But I imagine the board doesn't have sufficient evidence or sufficient detail to understand do those plans really play out in a real life scenario. Specifically, that pickup drop off plan does not tell us under what assumptions it breaks down. What happens when a maximum load of students and parents come in at a given time, if more people drive than are expected. The school has given us assurances that, um, there will not be queuing on the street, that this pickup and drop off will go smoothly. And we are fully aligned with the school and I'm sure they're aligned with not having a mess out on Waltham Road. We're all on the same thing, but it's very difficult for us to verify what they're planning will in fact happen under most circumstances. The idea that the Carroll School Lincoln campus is analogous to what's happening on, on Waltham Road, that doesn't resonate with me. And I, I, I doubt it resonates with anybody else that goes on to Baker Bridge and sees the difference between Baker Bridge and Waltham Road. We really do need an expert to take a look at the assumptions under which the flow through the school and onto Waltham Road, uh, that they work. Because otherwise you are going to have queuing or we're not going to be able to validate whether or not what's being suggested will happen. It'd be great to get validation that what's expected is going to happen. But there's no way from the slides that were presented or what, or just a suggestion that because it works in Lincoln, it's going to work in Waltham Road, that's not enough. If it's an important issue for the board, as it's an important issue for the community to confirm that there's not going to be queuing up the strainer, if there's not going to back up, we would suggest that we have this look at by UCT or somebody that is expert in looking at this flow and the assumptions and where it might break down. We'll definitely have the peer reviewer that we have on board look at it. Thank you very much. I, I believe, and I, I don't, I believe that these plans were part of the submission that went in today to ECT's questions. But if not, we are happy to, you know, submit them and make sure they have everything they need to comment on that. There was nothing in what was put up here today. It's just that, that, that there are parameters. Like where, when does it work and when does it not work? It just suggested at max flow, you're going to have 100 people queued. Well, 100 is not 240. If you have all 240 come, this is going to break down. What times does it break down? Does it work with Waltham Road is at a max? If there is a peak, if there is a break. We, we just can't, we just can't evaluate it without seeing those pieces. I'll just chime in. Um, so at the last presentation we showed where, um, so 50% of the school stays for after school. So it's, um, and 30% take the bus. So we showed a maximum amount, which it'll rarely ever get that way, but there are, you know, there are like 20 times a year that there's a, you know, the full dismissal where there is an after school. And in that time, there are no buses for sports. And so that opens up 24 cars. They'll also, um, this was also presented at the last time where the, the bays can be, will be set, uh, people won't be able to park in certain days. So then that's a release valve around the circle is also a release valve too. And so we ended up being able to add like 50 more cars, um, throughout, like if, and that's again, if it's static, right. Um, and so we feel pretty confident that, you know, it's gonna, it'll keep moving because 18 cars, they how, and yes, it is based on Lincoln, um, and it's the same age group and even older. So it's even, you know, they're even older to get to the cars and then get released. So it's, we've, we've thought about the release valves on the few times that, um, on those few times that it is, uh, all school kind of dismissal. No doubt. There's been thought that that is not a question. It's just how do we look at what are the pieces here and where does it break down? Because, and how do we validate it? Do we have a traffic expert look at it and say, this holds water. It works. It does not really balance for me that because it works in Lincoln, it's going to work in Wayland. They look like two very different settings and you know, you cannot control the parents. You've said it before. You can't make everybody take the bus and you can't make everybody come at specific times. You can try. Where does it break down? And it would be good to know that so that we know it's realistic. Any other public comments? Yes, please. Ronald Siegel, uh, 20 Long Meadow Road. Lincoln, uh, thank you for checking on the public right of way. I had raised the issue of the sidewalk, um, previously and apparently that, that strip is owned by, um, by the town. I was wondering if the school would consider joining with the neighbors to deposition the town to see if they might investigate the possibility of the sidewalk there for everybody's safety. This would just be, uh, you know, as, as a favorite, uh, you know, to together see if it might be possible to do that. Yeah. It's very, um, narrow there. You would be, it would be tough to put in a sidewalk. Because there's a certain, uh, width that's required by law. Well, there's the paved right of way and the unpaved right of way. And the unpaved right of way is all that would be available. That you'd be right on the road. You would be, we usually in town, when we do sidewalks, we like to have a buffer between the roadway and the walking path. And it's pretty narrow there. If you look at the plans, you'll see. Even if it's up on a curb though, I mean, cause there's some safety to the fact that it's, you know, it's, it's higher up. I don't know if you've driven down, uh, Concord Road close to our library. Um, there's a curb there, but it's a little dicey. It's a little dicey. The road is right there. I mean, it would, I, I, I hear that and it would still seem less dicey than walked on the road, which is what we wind up doing currently, which is quite dicey. So, so you can just a step in the direction of seeing what might be possible for the kids also that, you know, that are, um, that aren't all coming by car. It seems unlikely though. Also that, you know, if you, you can, maybe if everybody works together, maybe it works out to put a sidewalk right by the school, but I doubt that it's going to work out that everybody who is on Waltham road is going to agree to have a sidewalk on their yard. And so then it's just one little section. The cars obviously aren't right by the school. In fact, there are the fewest cars of all right by the school because they go in one driveway and then they're on property and coming up the other way. Um, so it's, it's the most problematic section though, because of the curb. It is, but it's also, it's problematic when there's no sidewalk and then a sidewalk and then no sidewalk because people have to transit transition up and on. And that makes people unpredictable. When are you going to step off the sidewalk? And you know, it, it's a great idea. It'd be great to have a sidewalk on Waltham road. I'm just skeptical that it would ever see the light of day. It's certainly up to you. If you want to try and petition, it would be that. I think the DPW. I'm completely not expert in this. It's just, I think one of the, one of the prevalent positions is the town is not going to install anything that doesn't meet construction standards for a sidewalk or else there's a liability. It's kind of, well, you know, you've only got two feet to walk here and it's not our fault that you get slipped. Right. I mean, that's crude. I don't mean to be like that, but it has to meet certain standards or they won't do it. Are there any other questions? Yes. Jeff Sias, 109 Old Subway road in Lincoln, which is directly across from 37 Waltham road. Um, I would like to ask the board and try and understand a little bit about jurisdiction and the idea of the parking lot design itself. We saw today with the lighting design, the spillover on the, that would be the north side where the parking lot comes closest to Waltham road. Is there an ability to request that redesign or some ability for higher buffer there? I didn't, I wasn't sure. They said that they're going to look into it because we generally would not let light spill over off of their property because it's not their property. So that is part of Dover because it's part of not necessarily part of Dover. It's part of property ownership. Sure. Okay. That's one of the questions we have is that parking lot design and what flexibility there might be there. I know it has an impact on the flow and as part of what I'm sure we'll talk about, but that's, um, one of the big neighborhood concerns and they have said that they'll keep the light on their property and won't let it spill over. Right. It's not just the light. It's actually the lightest. The least of our concerns is the, the buffer of the parking lot, the proximity of the parking lot to Waltham road on the curve that comes up closest to the road. There's what, five or 10 feet of separation there. And we're concerned about the buffer space. The tree buffers. Tree buffers. And I believe, again, this would probably be part of the conditions. Um, they've said that they want to, uh, embellish. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to speak for you. They want to embellish those areas. And as, as the board, do you have any kind of jurisdiction over parking lot design? Parking lot design. Yes. Thank you. And, um, we have to, I don't want to cut people up. I want to make sure that everybody else who wants to speak has spoken because we have another hearing that we have to begin at nine o'clock. So aside from, um, Mr. Hill, is there anyone else who wants to come online? We let that person go online. Sorry. This is Sally Murphy again. I got muted again when I earlier, uh, was trying to speak about the previous road study. I know there's been a lot of discussion and I won't hold it up. I just want to signal as you're working with your study. Um, I've lived here since 1985, so I know this road very well. Um, I want to take into heavy consideration, which I don't think was done in 2016. That old Sudbury Waltham road is incredibly narrow. As you just pointed out, there is no shoulder. The road is pretty much the equivalent of one and a half car lengths. It is hard to even get two cars by that road. So anyone who's walking their dog, walking their children, riding their bikes, I'm convinced that the speed limit on that road is too high as it is. And the road study comes in only last year or in 2016, six miles over. Really, I think the speed limit is too high on that road to begin with, and it should be taken into heavy consideration when you get the information that that is a very narrow road. The other thing that I'm concerned about is on long meadow, which is a cut through. I'm not that worried about your students getting in and out of your cars quickly. I'm worried about parents flying down our road. This whole street, this whole area, apple tree, long meadow, Linway is full of children, small kids, little kids on bikes. This is residential. So for the school, it's not just traffic and roadways on Waltham Road, it's the importance of everyone picking up their kids and trying to get out of here as fast as they can. And the roads are not built for it. And our children are not built for it. And the neighborhood is not built for it. And it is a very serious worry, as you can hear from everyone in this area. So I just think as you get this report in, I really hope that there's some conversation that's not just black and white, but really being honest about what we're looking at for the layout of this community. Thank you. Is there anybody else, Robert, online? No. Anybody else in the room other than Mr. Hill? Okay. Dan? Just one closing point, Annette, on this issue of jurisdiction, right? Because I know this is really important. There's a distinction between the conditions you impose on the project and your review of the project. And what Tufts says, and what all the case law says under Dover, is that boards cannot put on conditions on Dover Amendment protected uses that go beyond the scope of the statute. It does not say that boards are prohibited from looking at overall impacts of a project. And so what we've asked for is filling in the gaps of the traffic study that was done, which include things like the trip counts. What was provided was the additional trips, not the total trips at school. We know from their study that some of these intersections are going to be delays are going to increase by 200%. These are all things that are important for the town to understand as to what the impacts will be. It doesn't mean, hold on, let me just finish. It doesn't mean that the planning board is going to impose conditions, but at least we have that information. So maybe the town of Wayland does something like mitigation for these intersections to make them work better. So I just want to make that point that I agree with you. And I'm not going to argue with you, but I am going to say that they've already said they're going to address those things. And we're going to operate in good faith until they show us that they're not operating in good faith. And you're welcome to discuss whatever you'd like to discuss on behalf of your clients with the applicant. But they've given us more than they had to. I'm pleased that they have, but we're not going to go down a raffle. Okay. I just wanted to make the distinction of, there may be a debate over what conditions are opposed, but the review is not open to debate. There's been plenty of cases that have. Dan, I, I heard you. I don't agree with you. Um, and that's where we are. Um, any other, uh, comments from the board questions? Larry. No, I'm good. Ira. Robin. Um, I had some comments in terms of the landscaping. Um, I had looked at the plans and I noticed that there really aren't,
there aren't any plantings like evergreens between, let's say the new building and the sidewalk that's right there. And some of the areas out by the road, because of the right of way and how close the parking area is to that area, you have trouble adding enough screening right there. But I wonder if some screening were added closer to the building between the building and the sidewalk, some tall cedars or whatever, that you might be able to soften the look of the building where people can see through the buffer that's out by the road. Um, it was just a thought that I had as we looked at it. Um, that was my one thought. I don't think I had any other thoughts. Um, we can definitely look at that. Uh, I mean, we were thinking in terms of, um, in the, in the rain garden in between, we can also, that's, that's an area where we can get some planting in. Um, if, if the school doesn't want to have evergreens, I think it's, I don't think we want to have evergreens where you can't see the drop off area like that. We want to have a little bit more open, um, further down towards the west side of the building where you're a little further away from the drop off and pickup area. Yes. Yes, we can do that. But in terms of also screening, we have the rain garden in the center, um, between the parking and the drop off that can also do that. Okay. And the other thing I wanted to say is I have spent way more time in my life doing pickup and drop off at several local private schools. And in general, it moves pretty well, but there are always things that can be considered when, when you have those rare all school drop off and pickup days where perhaps you can release two grades at one time and two grades at another time and make families who have multiple kids come at the later time or something. So you break up the pickup and drop off. And it would be nice when you're discussing these things with the, the abutters and things. If you maybe have a plan for those all school days, that's a little different from your regular days so that you break up those all school days. Cause those are difficulties. Those are long, hard pickup days. Um, so, but, and having done those pickups, I would also assure the abutters that most of the time, those pickups move quicker than you think they do. And as long as the school is being vigilant about keeping cars from piling up out in the neighborhood, hopefully this will all move. That looks pretty familiar to me. So in case that's reassuring in terms of just the pickup, there are other traffic issues, but Robert, do you have anything? Okay. Um, and I don't think I did this before, so let me try now. Um, can I have a motion to, uh, uh, continue this hearing to December the 3rd, um, uh, what time? I would like to be in person if we can, at the town hall, if we can, um, we might have to do it hybrid, but not meeting here anymore. Or just, no, this is just sitting here regularly. No, this is just one time. Okay. So, um, may I have a motion, uh, to continue until December 3rd at 8 45, hopefully to be in session with the conservation commission. So moved. So second. All second. Uh, all in favor, Larry Kiernan. Yes. Yes. Ira Honigue. Yes. Robin Woodstead. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Okay. Thank you, everyone. Do we need to move the decision date out today? Um, they have to do that. Okay. Okay. Send us an email. Just write me an email. Is that hybrid? In person? Well, we can do it. You can do it hybrid in person. Do you want to do it? But I want us to be there. And hopefully can't come today.
Ned, what time was the meeting on the 3rd? On the 3rd, 8 45. 8 45.
So, um, she's on.
Hello, Carol.
Thank you very much. Sorry to have done that to you. No problem. This is, um, PB, uh, 2505, 3, 5, and 7, uh, Seto Wood Lane, previously referred to as 13 Cherena Road. Um, and it's to amend a previously issued amendment to, uh, May 13th, 2025, uh, amended definitive subdivision approval, uh, to modify the location of the water main. So, um, Carol, do you want to just tell us what's up? And then Robert can brief the board. Okay. Um,
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. To. Um, Carol Seato 13th, Karina Ro. Uh, or also known as 3, 5, 7, Seatwood lane. Um, previously planning board has approved the subdivision, uh, with the water main coming in from off Cherena Row. As we were getting through conservation, one of the neighbors requested that we move the water main to come in from old Connecticut path. The reason being that she's concerned there's a willow tree off the side of her property on the private way coming in might be negatively impacted by the installation of the water main coming through. Although we have arbors to show that would not be the case because the water line, actually we have redesigned it to move further away from the tree, 25 feet away. But she's still not comfortable and conservation decided that it's better for the project to move forward if we agree to move the water main to come in from the old Connecticut path. So the engineer, Kevin, checked with DPW. Conservation also checked with DPW DPW and the fire department. We redesigned it and make sure the hygiene come in off the main to make sure it meets all the requirements set by DPW.
Oh, thank you. I don't have that. All right. So there is a hygiene, right? Oh, I don't know if you can see my pointer. It's a proposed hygiene, 7,500, 574 feet to Tirina Row, which is within the requirement set by the DPW.
There are two fire hydrants, I believe. Yes. At the very end and then... The one at the very end of the cul-de-sac, yes. And is the DPW okay? When they say hydrants, those two are fine for them? The one at the end of the cul-de-sac has always been there. That's right, I know. Yeah, so the one that we propose, the 574 feet, is because the change of the location coming in from old Connecticut path. And your consultant has already spoken with DPW on that? Yes. Are there any other changes on this plan from the last version that we saw? No, just the water money coming in. All the utilities still will be underground, gas and electric. So there's no other changes. Are you still dealing with the conservation commission on any part of any of this, or are you done? No, we're done. I already have the order of condition has been recorded. We already finished the erosion control. And Linda has came out maybe two weeks ago to do the inspection. And we have started the clearing of the private way. Does anybody have any questions? No. Good idea. Do you have any questions? No. And you don't have any either. We have to vote and sign this too and we have to write an amended decision. Yep. And I forget what you said the date was that we've got time, right? Yeah. I think it's nine days. So you can write something a short thing. Just restart it. Okay.
I just have one question. Sure. So the previous plan, right, was to come down the street with a water main? Yeah. Yes. Because of one tree the conservation commission said we should go to all Connecticut path. And currently, right, if we do that we're going to be disturbing some existing trees, right? I don't know. Coming in from all Connecticut path that is like a grassy area. Between these two properties that are right away is it a grassy area? All right. All right, trees. Just brush. We already had gone through this whole issue with the willow tree. You should look at the tree. It's really large. Willow tree. Yes, it's going to die. It would be nice. And we all, I mean, we went around and around and we all decided that it was fine and we would go if things should go down the road. And then conservation decided, they kept bringing them back. I mean, I don't know how many times these people had to go back and back and back and back until they finally said the hell with it. Let's just move it because they couldn't wait anymore. All right. Yeah. Okay.
So, can we have, this is up to you guys. If Robert prepares a brief decision and we know that's what I was going to say, is it okay if I review it and sign it and we vote tonight that it's okay because it's not going to be complicated. Is that okay? Yes. So, can I have a motion? Great. I'm so happy. Can I have a motion to approve the requested amendment to the site plan and what's the site plan number, Robert? The original or? The one now. It's an amendment to the original and it's got the same number, right? I give it a new number. I give it 25.05.
No, the plan, the site plan itself. Oh, the recorded information? No. The number on the plan, the plan has a plan number on it. It's like the same date too, right? It has, it'll have an amended date and it does on the right hand, on the left hand side. Oh, October 21st. Oh, okay. See? October 21st or? So this is plan set one of two plan profile sheet. Is that what it's called? Plan and profile sheets? Okay, so in amendment two, the plan and profile sheets one and two as amended 10, 21, 25 to show movement of the water line from the original location along the street to an area that also belongs to the property owner coming off of old Connecticut path. So moved. Do you want me to do it again? I can write it down and read it back to you. No. Unless, yeah. And, I'm sorry, can I, can I make a comment? That, that area is not owned by the neighbor, they have an easement for the first part of the path coming in for them to have the driveway as a turnaround, but that part is part of a land. It's your land, that's what I was saying. It's part of your land. I just wanted to make it clear that you weren't going on to somebody else's land.
So moved, so we need a second.
I'll end in favor.
Larry Kiernan. Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Robin Borgstead. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Also, I would like permission of the vote of the board to allow Robert to draft the minor decision and me to work with him on it and sign it on behalf of the board. So moved. Second. All in favor? Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Robin Borgstead. Larry Kiernan. Yes. I have a hand up. Someone has a hand up? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to let them talk and see what they said. Can you hear me? Yes. We are the neighbors that have that easement. We're at 222 Old Connecticut Path. What is your name please? Oh, I'm sorry. This is Maren Rietmeyer.
Maren Rietmeyer. Can you Maren? Yes. Maren. A-R-E-N. A-R-E-N. Rietmeyer. R-E-E-P-M-E-Y-E-R. Thank you. I'm just wondering if there's any information as to, you know, what happens when they put the water main in? Will we still be able to use that easement? It's kind of unsafe for us to go out the other side of our driveway. So we haven't been given any information about the actual construction and timeline. And I think I saw in the plan there's a fence that will go up. It looks like it'll block our way to get out of our driveway the most safe way possible. Can somebody shed some light on how we're supposed to deal with this during construction and after? I can address that. Go ahead, Carol. Okay. So you will continue to have the easement is for you to use that front part of that as your driveway. Construction is not going to start until maybe in the spring because right now we cannot get the street open. So that probably will be a couple days that we would have to dig up that part of the easement that you have the right to use as your
the pipe is in then we're going to close it back up. So it's not going to be an extended period of time for construction to be on the part that you have the easement. And you would let them know ahead of time when you're planning on doing that with sufficient warning? Because we're not going to be able to do the work until springtime so that's why I have not contacted you as yet but as we get closer to the start of the construction I will reach out to you. Okay thank you Carol. And is there a plan will it be paved after the water main goes in or what's the intent for the final condition? Because right now it's paved. Yeah we will finish paving it so it will look the same as it was before. You're not going to pave the whole area you're just going to pave the driveway where it's currently paved. Correct yeah thank you for claiming it. Okay yes and sorry one more thing we I don't know if it shows up on the plan we have a big basin in our driveway I don't know if there's any lines that go into that part that has been considered there's a big catch basin that's you know very close to the easement and so I assume there might be some lines drainage lines there not sure if that's been considered. let me talk to the engineer about that because if there's an existing catch basin that part will remain no there isn't a catch basin on the plan is it a catch basin or a low area it's a low area we think it's like for overflow it's definitely a basin that catches water on our property but I think it connects over there and there okay I'll have the engineer go check it out and basically makes sense because if you look at the contour lines heading toward your property yeah it's higher away from your property and it gets lower going toward your property yes that's correct so maybe there's no conflict there but we just wanted to make you aware that that's it it's near it's near that you know where the easement is okay we'll have a check double check okay thank you thank you okay is there anybody else over okay um so we voted on this already and thank you carol um we'll have to sign these plans too or yeah okay so we need um mylar from you how i don't know however many you worked out the last time uh and then we'll sign it okay yeah that's uh two pages um i will have kevin produce the mylar and robert let me know when i can bring it in and robert do we we also need um paper copies too right yeah two two two
and just one paper copy one paper copy okay or two sets of mylars i guess what mylars and one set of paper okay okay thank you very much sorry i got through all that no problem all right good night good night thank you um jesse isn't here tonight and asked if we could put off the ground mounted solar discussion until the third but i think we're going to be overloaded on third so we'll see um i'd like to go over our schedules just a little bit um through january the 30th to see if people have availability these next meetings are probably going to be in-person meetings um we'll have the ability to uh do it by zoom if we have to but it's certainly a lot it's preferable for us all to be sitting in front of the audience if we can do that um so for robert had sent around um scheduling for where we are now and um we have uh on the third we have the coptic church and the carol school uh he put on the 10th we didn't really have a meeting as far as i know scheduled for the 10th but we might need to put one in there and we can talk about that in a minute we have the carol school on the 17th um there there there oh there's also on the 17th i'm just going down the calendar i'm sorry is that 17th for sure yes it's 7 to 15 we'll do it um i think i'll continue to the third so to the third to do that concom thing but then the rest of it we'll do on the i don't know if we continue we can't i don't remember the motion being continued it didn't but on the third we'll continue it to the 17th correct oh yeah i'm sorry we know it'll be on our you meant that i didn't do this yes okay so um okay so um that's the 17th their next meeting after that is january the 7th and then january the 28th we have two decisions to get out during this time frame um right now um the coptic church has given us until 1231 and the carroll school hopefully will give us until january the 30th but we have school vacations coming up and christmas and all of that stuff so i just wanted to know if any of you are out of pocket during that time and won't be able to be available to review decisions i will be away in december but i'll be around january but i think okay i think you said that you would be able to review them if we sent them to you anyway yes i can review them i'll just be in wisconsin i can't come sign something right but you could do um a zoom oh yeah yeah if there's a meeting i'll be on it right that's all we need and i'm not leaving till the 17th and i'll be back by the 7th by january 7th so and larry are you okay too or not yep i'm around okay great and i asked jesse to let me know but i haven't heard yet um about his schedule so um we're meeting on the third we're meeting on the 17th um i would actually prefer not to meet on the 10th if we don't have to agreed perfect is that okay with everyone absolutely please um okay um okay going down further we go into uh the next meeting in in january it's the 7th the 28th in the carroll school decisions the 30th then we have february 11th school vacation is 12 6th excuse me february the 16th through february the 20th and is that a problem for anybody right i mean or do you have any winter big winter plans when you guys won't be around okay i just want to i'm sorry i'm good for those dates okay great and how about and you robert have given us what where you're not okay and where you are okay and you won't be here for the meeting on the third but that's okay because in the area
we got a packet a while ago from the dpw from joe doucette with trees scenic road trees i'm hoping that you had a chance to look at the trees and or look at the pictures and decide if any of them are problematic i looked at them on i looked at the pictures i thought were excellent and then i went out and looked at a few that i just wasn't sure about and i looked at them and i wrote joe a note about two that i was concerned about and he answered me um so he likes to know if we have any issues beforehand because that will tell us how long the hearing is going to be no i have to schedule it that's why i'm asking have you guys been able to look at them or look at the pictures or have any issues or i looked at the pictures i figured i'd go out look at the trees before we had a hearing but if i know he wants to know beforehand i'll go out he does and the reason we said it when we did is because the leaves were still on the trees at this point the leaves aren't really on the trees they all looked pretty they were yeah they were in great shape last time they were more questionable trees this time it seemed like they were all really okay and you haven't looked at them yet either are okay i'm sorry larry larry says kill them all yeah let's kill them all thanks if you guys could over the next week maybe write me a note if you have an issue with any of the trees or ask joe he'll be happy to talk to you about them but i just want to know that we either have none or we have some problems so theoretically if you guys could work it out with joe we could just have a quick hearing unless there's a neighbor who has a problem but that's better than us all having a problem what if i want a tree down that's not on the list tell him you tell him and it might not be at this hearing but it'll be at another hearing whenever there's a tree that needs to go down on scenic road or regular road just let the dpw know cliff has done that would this be the forum to on plain road there's a tree with a big knot that sticks someone's gonna hit it that's been a contentious tree for years the person who always objected doesn't live on town anymore i'm wondering just about the knot what if you just remove the knot i don't know if the tree would live would it yeah i don't know you can ask joe why don't you send him a note he'll know which tree you're talking about yes he will all right don't let him throw it away if he's going to take it off you'll turn it on ugly make a bull yeah looking at that for a while it's a cross from farm it's either farmcrest or plain view i think it's farm crust it's by farm yeah if i do write him a note i will um is there anything else uh robert oh yes please uh we got a request from there's a meepo request for netherway joining the mwra water supply they're gonna the dbw is looking to build two structures and right now we're trying to decide if how it determines that the bylaw site plan is triggered and so one piece of it is triggered both vacant lots and then one is out if you're taking a building and you're rooming it and putting a new building on there so the vacant lot there's two pieces of properties that they're putting buildings the vacant lot should be fine i don't think it meets site plan and then the other question is is the other one has a structure on it and they get back to being what the size is my guy said probably not you can increase it by a certain percentage if it's a certain size and the percentages go up depending on the size of it and it looks like it's probably not going to increase beyond the percentage that's allowed robert robert and i went over it the bylaw is murder to read the site plan review bylaw you have to go back and forth and forth and back and forth and the way it's crafted i think probably they meant for it to be read one way but it's not what the words say so we went back and forth in the office and went over it together to just see if we really thought that for the vacant where it's vacant land if they really needed to have review and think it doesn't but other people can look at it what it says is that in one section if it's vacant land and you're putting something on it you have to have a review then when you go to the next section you have there are more questions they ask and they say well if these are all in the negative then you go back to the first provision and that first provision tells you what the site what the sizes of the buildings are can be but on that same thing it says what the percentage increase can be if you've got nothing on the lot exactly and it starts at 3,333 so because of the way it reads I think you just technically should be reading if it's below the 3,333 you don't need to have a review and if it were over then you might because the percentages don't come into play and we talked about the fact that if we're doing a flagpole that's a structure we're going to have to have site plan review to put up a flagpole I mean it just didn't make sense so that's sort of where we came out I'm good if you're happy in that I'm happy I told Robert it was his decision because he had to live with it for future applications is there anything else Robert that you need to talk to us about no I think there's future I
he's coming you'll be a million variances just think it'd be hospitals it's ZBA variances that would be probably not granted so he's looking for a sponsor for the playboy to change the zoning to increase the number of units per acre right and where that property is it's down in way below the street level already and you wouldn't even notice that it had gone up any higher and would it make sense if we knew I'm sure we know the absolute height the highest point on Alta so that we're sort of we allow them to be that would be pretty high well but they're down on the other side of the Sudbury dump valley there right so if the buildings were the same height as Alta is that okay buildings with the same height as the buildings would the appearance of the buildings would be the same height maybe you could ask him that he he's he's down low he's trying to model after yeah because if he wants to be higher than that people might not be very happy but if it was this if it appeared to be the same height as Alta people might be looking about 100 plus units potentially rental 10% would be
affordable units on can we tell we'll only approve it if he does more affordable units we can do lots of stuff he wants to come in actually he wanted to come in on the third oh my god I don't know maybe the 17th he wants to come at 12 o'clock at night yeah could we
possible and once you start adding affordable units I don't know but we can ask yeah you should ask him ahead of time and give him a heads up I mean in
come on the 17th then he will literally be at 10 o'clock at night if he tries for the third I think yeah you can tell him that he would have to be very late in
executive office of housing and community livable communities to just make sure that we don't have to go through a whole process again MBTA because what we're doing is everything was approved and now we're just increasing the number of units and increasing the height but will it be 50% or two thirds 50% of two thirds what how much of
think so I think it's still just a majority because it's housing I don't know I'll check again but I think that the housing bottom line if this is a project that actually happens the majority of the town should be like yes it's going to help the town out a lot if you can get a yeah except there are people who are probably happy that it's not there because it's going to make traffic worse so that's what you're going to hear from people traffic will be traffic people will go way yes yeah yeah and I thought we looked at the traffic before when we were setting up the zone yeah he's also considering putting potentially some mixed use in the bottom too it's considered it then he'd need a special person he's intrigued and think about he would go down that road this is down by Longfellow it's down by you know where the car dealerships on one side it's right across from there there's right where Longfellow is at the end his property is right at the beginning of that road on the right hand side the eastern side and there's a multi-story building there now okay anything else anything else by anybody else we have one thing on the storm water regs I think Tom Tom had a meeting tonight I had reached out to Linda several times and did not see an updated draft so not sure what they covered I happened to talk to Sean fair today and he told me that they weren't going to deal with it tonight because they hadn't seen the revised regulations yet either that that that that that that that that she said last to me so all right I don't know when they were I'll ask my husband when I get home I
and all Warren articles have to be in by January the 15th and for the zoning articles we should have a hearing on anything that we're proposing before that so we are on a forced march at the moment for all the zoning articles we know that we
and we need to get that immediately and what were the other articles we're hoping to do ground mounted solar but we can't and the ADU are those the housekeeping and ADU okay and I think Watkins if we are willing to do the thing I think he'd like that to try and be at this time meeting it's very simple we have to have a hearing so fitting all this stuff in before is a real issue we might have to add that other January before that it be submitted to the software by the 15 but we have to submit to the software to send it back to us remember that that's the process we'll do it both ways we'll be submitting it to them to go into the warrant and then we'll probably have had the hearing first we'll probably have had we'll work it
Christmas once and we have to have a notice in the newspaper and all of that so we have to have the actual materials ready before so that people can review it so we're again on another fourth March Robert what newspaper do you put it in these days just to mention yeah this comes out depends on what we're noticing some things have to be in two consecutive weeks and some things just have to be two times before the hearing it's easier than Metro West just because you line up correctly yeah but you can
otherwise if it's two consecutive weeks we have to do it in the Metro West Daily News where nobody will see right no make me a lot too you can go look at legal notice I went for website if you look at any legal notice matches that's how take a look at anything else anybody I move to adjourn okay is there a second all in favor Larry Kiernan yes yes yes yes good night every