September 9, 2026 – Planning Board – Video & Transcript

September 9, 2026 - Planning Board

Autoscroll:

It's September 9th, 2026, at 7.15 p.m. The meeting is in person and there's remote access. If, for chance, someone is having difficulty getting the remote access, what's your email address? rhummel. You can do it, okay. rhummel at wayland.na.us. And that will go to the town planner, and he will send you a link to get on, because we've had difficulty with the town's website today. In addition, the meeting was to have started at 7, but the town clerk's office posted it for 7.15, therefore we weren't allowed to start until 7.15.
I've called the meeting. In order, we have a quorum of five of us here. I'm hoping that our associate member will be able to also join us. And the agenda for this evening will start at 7.15, which is PV 2603, public hearing 8787A, Stonebridge Road, and MWRA Holtman Aqueduct Corridor, town of Wayland. It's a site plan. It's a proposed construction of a new 1.35 million gallon per day Happy Hollow Water Treatment Facility and a new cattle road substation within the MWRA Holtman Aqueduct Corridor. The next item is scheduled for 8.15, and I'm hoping we can stay on schedule, and that's PB 2604, and it's a public hearing for 400 to 440 Boston Post Road. With NP Wayland LLC amendments to the existing master special permit. Then we have updates from the town planner and chair, board comments and concerns, and then a jury. So I'd like to open the hearing for PB 2603. And for the applicants this evening, will those of you online please identify yourself? Good evening. My name is Tom Holder. I'm the DPW director. Good evening, everyone. My name is Matthew O'Dowd. I'm with Kleinfelder as project engineer. And I'm Greg Avina. I'm the engineer of record who stamped the plans.
I'm assuming that your name, I can't see. So I'm assuming that your names are your names. Yes, great. Thank you. Oh, yeah, you're there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I didn't realize you were there. You just jumped on.
How do we do this? I think this. Up there. Skip your voice. Skip your voice. OK. Who is doing the presentation this evening, Tom? I can just give some opening remarks, and then I'll hand it over to the Kleinfelder team, if that's OK. OK. We're going to have a presentation from the applicant, questions from the board, and then we'll hear from the public. OK. Tom. All right. Well, good evening, everyone. As I said, I'm Tom Holder. I'm the DPW director. I'm the project manager representing the town. With me tonight are members of the Kleinfelder project team. They introduced themselves, Matt and Greg. You are all likely familiar with the town's long-term water supply project, having heard about it over a number of town meetings and many, many Board of Public Works meetings. It is comprised of a new water supply project, which is the new water supply project. We're going to talk about it in a few minutes. But first, I want to thank you all for joining us. We're going to talk about the project. We're going to talk about the project. We're going to talk about the project. We're going to talk about the project. You are all likely familiar with the town's long-term water supply project, having heard about it over a number of town meetings and many, many Board of Public Works meetings. It is comprised of a new water treatment facility at the Happy Hollow treatment well field, and that is right behind the Wayland High School. It also includes a connection to the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority to act as a supplemental supply of water. Along with a significant amount of pipework, there are vertical project components that will be discussed in detail tonight. So with that, I will hand it over to both Matt and Greg. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. So I went ahead and shared my screen. Can everybody see that okay? I'll be flipping through a PowerPoint here just to go over some of the stuff that Tom talked about and some of the site plan. Items. Does everyone see project need and history here? Yep. Yep. Okay, great. So yeah, like Tom said, you guys have already got some background on this. So I'll move sort of quickly through some of these background slides. But essentially, we have PFAS contamination at several of the sources in Wayland as a part of a large effort to mitigate that. We're putting forward this project as part of a large effort to mitigate that. But essentially, we have PFAS contamination at several of the sources in Wayland as a part of a large effort to mitigate that. But essentially, we have PFAS contamination at several of the sources in Wayland as a part of a large effort to mitigate that. So the MWRA has been doing this effort to upgrade the Happy Hollow water treatment wells with the new treatment facility and to establish an interconnection with the MWRA. So the two sites of concern for us tonight will be at Castle Road and at Happy Hollow. I can probably go over this slide here. So that's our dual-source solution here. So both of these sites were put forward in this site plan application. So, like I said, one number here, that's our Happy Hollow Water Treatment Facility. That'll be permanently relocated out of a flood-prone area, and it will remove a temporary tent and rental treatment system to establish permanent treatment for those wells. And then this new pump station at Castle Road will lift the water from the MWRA system into Wayland's system.
These are the two sites of concern. So we have the high school up here, the existing Happy Hollow Water Treatment, and wells are at this site. So that's where the new water treatment facility will be. Let's see if I can get... I'm going to get my pointer here.
So that's this one up here. And then we have Castle Road down at this smaller parcel at Castle Road and Old Connecticut Path.
So I'll start with Happy Hollow. These are the existing conditions there. This is the chemical feed facility that currently exists up on the hill. And this is the... This is the site where most of the work will be happening. This is what will be replaced with a full treatment facility for the removal of PFAS. To go through some more photos here, we have... This is the rental tent system that I was talking about. These are some older buildings that are currently empty, and these will be demolished. All of this infrastructure is currently in the flood zone, so that'll be removed. This is what it's going to look like, essentially. This is the isometric view from our actual plan set that was included with the site plan application. And this is a photo of just another similar facility that we did down in Millis of the metal panel building. So it'll look something like this.
So here's the site. And here's the site plan itself. I'll just do a kind of a brief overview of site components. And if there's any questions from the planning board, then we can jump back to some of these slides. We can also pull up the plans themselves. This is just one sheet, but there's a few different sheets that show various components in different ways. So whatever you guys will want to look at tonight. But I'll just summarize. So as I think Tom said, there's three wells. They're a little bit... grayed out here, but there's three existing wells here and there, and there's one there, so those will be replaced. In addition, as we stated before, these buildings down here will be demolished. This existing chemical feed facility will be demolished. And this is the new approximately 4000 square foot facility. This will house new filtration treatment vessels for filtering PFAS out of the water. And it'll also contain chemical feed systems, similar to what's in place now, except to transition to chloramines to better match the MWRA water quality.
There's some other components here. So this will be a line lagoon to handle backwash waste, which we anticipate to occur once to twice per year. That'll occur when GAC is changed out for new media, when they become laden with PFAS. And then here... Sure, yeah, go ahead. You better spell them out. Say what they all mean, please. GAC. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, GAC, that just stands for granular activated carbon. So that's just essentially the filter media that removes PFAS from the water.
So there's a new... Yep. Do I hear another question? Yeah, where are the electrical connections and are they underground?
Sure, yeah, we can jump to the plans that show that in better detail. This is kind of... I think you can do that later if you're going to have another plan. Sure, yeah. Yeah, I'll make a mental note to show that. So that will go underground to answer your question directly. But we can look at... Where all those duct banks run. Yep.
Are you taking questions now at all? I can take questions as we go through. Some of them might be like... This is a quick conceptual question. I guess I'm not sure. This plant is supposed to filter out PFAS from our existing wells? Or it's supposed to filter out PFAS from the water that's coming from WMF? At this site, we'll be filtering PFAS out from existing wells in Wayland. The MWRA already treats for PFAS at their water treatment facility. So that interconnection will carry finished water from the MWRA. And those two different sources will be blended in the system. So the MWRA is used because our existing wells cannot totally satisfy the need... Of WMRA? Yes, that's correct. Okay. Thank you. Sure.
All right. Some other site components here. There's security gating and fencing. There are stormwater controls. This right here is a major stormwater control. There will be a smaller one behind the building here. And then there's also onsite generator for backup power. Propane tank. Tanks for generator fuel. This is a lined lagoon for backwash waste that I mentioned, which we anticipate about once or twice per year. This is what the building will look like. It is just under 35 feet tall. The filtration vessels get pretty tall. So that's the reasoning for the height. All right. We'll talk about the water supply and the flow of water. There will be other components in here such as finished water pumps. There's a below-grade clear well, which will provide some disinfection prior to the water entering the system. And this will also house the chemical feed systems, as well as controls and a bathroom and mechanical room. Thank you. Thank you. So that's all Happy Hollow. Like I said, we can jump back to some of those other site plans that show additional components there, but I'll just kind of go through Castle Road now. So this is where the new pump station will be. Do they still add fluoride to water or not anymore? Yes.
So here's Castle Road. This is what it looks like right now. This is kind of an artist's rendering of what this parcel is proposed to look like. This is the new pump station, and we have some screened-off fencing to kind of help block the view from Old Connecticut Path.
Now here's that site plan. I'll go through some of the site components here. As you can see, it's a little bit smaller, so it's just a 33 by 22 foot pump station, and there'll be stormwater controls. That's this area right here. There'll be a new paved driveway, and there's also a gravel side place, one, so that the generator can be refueled, so there's access back here. It could also serve as parking if needed. For a water operator. And as far as this pump station itself, this will really just house the new pumps and electrical equipment.
The electrical here is proposed also to go underground, and that'll actually cross over the Hultman Aqueduct. This hatched-out line on the bottom here, I'll call it, that's the existing MDF. And it's a WRA aqueduct that we are tying into a few thousand feet back in Framingham.
Here's a few elevation views of that. This one actually has a cutout view so you can see inside a little bit. The bathroom is actually proposed to be removed, but we need a variance from the plumbing board with the state for that. that, so that's currently underway. That way we can delete the septic system and simplify the site a little bit, so that'll benefit us. So I'll do a quick review of impacts, if there's no additional questions at this point. And then the last slide will be an overview of some of the preliminary comments that we got from our filing, and then we'll just open it up for questions and discussion.
So wetland resources, it's all been designed according to Mass DEP standards 1 through 10, so we submitted the stormwater design report accordingly. If there's any questions on that, we have Greg on the line in case, yeah, to any. answer any questions about the stormwater design. So that'll mean peak runoff rates for the design storms, as well as infiltration. For landscape, there'll be some tree removal. And at this time, we'll work with the Conservation Commission if there's any special requests.
And besides that, we have some loam and seed to restore some of those areas. For traffic, this is where we requested a waiver. The reason being traffic is minimal. So it's what the town really does now at their current facilities is quite representative of what this will be. There'll be daily visits by operators up to the new treatment facility and a daily check-in at Castle Road by one operator. Should really be all that's needed. So we suspect that that traffic will be so minimal that a traffic evaluation would really provide no value. And then, in addition to that, there are monthly chemical deliveries at Happy Hollow, just like there currently are. And then for waste disposal, we'll propose one dumpster up at the Happy Hollow water treatment facility. There won't be any need for a dumpster at Castle Road. And then like I mentioned, I'll not have a waste disposal. They need some waste disposal. Then, for waste disposal, we'll buy, and them put them all together. This is something that's always the case here with a waste disposal. Hu Extra Water us that's the standard 생각 of wastewater. And then, for waste disposal, we'll put them mentioned closer to the top, we'll have one to two times per year of backwashing of the granular activated carbon filter media up at Happy Hollow.
So these are some of the preliminary comments that we received. As we understand, these should be addressed for a new filing and will come in front of the planning board again for another meeting. I can touch on each of these now. So with the tight tank, we'll file for approval of that with the Board of Health. We'll require a bathroom up at Happy Hollow, so that's why we need a tight tank up there to handle that. Like I mentioned, we'll also remove, we'll propose a variance through the state to remove the septic system in Leach Field at Castle Road. All chemicals. There was a note about this from the Board of Health, I think it was. So these will all contain secondary containment in accordance with mass DEP regulations. So that'll be permitted through them to ensure that there's no chemical release outside of those secondary containment areas. There was a request to add trees, so we can add the existing tree informations of six inch caliper and larger.
And yeah, we'll have a new gate shown on the Castle Road plans. Castle Road also, that gravel area helps us to minimize impact of stormwater a little bit, so that reduces the overall impact of the site plan. So we would like to keep that if possible. And then we can add six inches to the parking spaces at Happy Hollow. They're currently shown at 18 feet.
So that's what we had for a quick overview. I'll open the floor for questions. In the meantime, I can pull up our Happy Hollow plans that show the electrical information. Also note that this is currently being peer reviewed by the TANZ reviewer, so we haven't gotten any comments back on that yet. But if and when we do, we'll address those.
I want to take the board one by one and we can ask you questions. Arlene, do you want to start? Nothing. I've already asked. Thank you.
I have questions about the site plan, C305.
You mentioned landscape, but I didn't see landscaping on that plan. Is it on another plan that I didn't see? Or are you doing landscape plans later? Right now, we don't have a landscape plan included in the set. When you look at specifically the pump station that is enclosed with an opaque fence, that's why we didn't have any included, because it's not visible from the outside. But if that's something that we need to address, we can do that. Thank you, Arlene. Thank you, Arlene. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. How tall is the opaque fence? I'm sorry, I missed that. How tall is the opaque fence? I believe it's six feet. Well, the subsequent question then is, when you do the landscape plan, do you intend to provide some landscape screening? Yes. that will soften the impact of the new pump station on Castle Road?
We don't have any currently proposed. Right now we have the OPEC fence as the screening for the pump station itself. Are you looking for screening for the fence itself? I don't know what your intent is there. Do you intend to have that building and fencing fit into the neighborhood and feel residential? 35 feet. He didn't say how tall it was. He never said how tall that building was. How tall is the building at Castle Road? Castle Road will just be 15 feet tall. And we'll propose siding and roofing to appear residential to address that concern. And then as Greg mentioned, this screening fence will just reduce the visibility. Okay. I think it needs a little work. When you make a building bright white, it makes it really jump out at you. I think that the least you can do is go to a driftwood gray color or a color that a residential facility in the neighborhood might. But not one that draws attention to that building. You want to draw less attention to that building, in my opinion. I think you want to kind of let it fit into the neighborhood better. Sure. We can certainly do gray or work with the planning board on a color selection. We recommend landscaping there to screen off and soften the impact of the building. So looking at your site plan, I don't think you left much room for a planting layout of any kind between the street, between the two streets. You've got Old Connecticut Path, and then you've got Castle Road, both of which really should be properly screened, I think. Would you be looking for that outside the fence? Looking at what? Would you be looking for that outside the fence on the exterior? On the roadside of the back? Well, you have to show us what it would look like, I guess, so we know whether it would be good. If you have a high fence, then obviously low shrubs are not going to do much for it. I'm not sure where the fence is going to go.
The fence would be around the perimeter, as shown right there. Oh, see, that's a very institutional way to deal with it. That's not what I'm talking about. I don't think that would be the most impractical way to do it. But I'm open for discussion here. Show us the two alternative options that may be useful for the neighbors in planning work to get an idea of what it would look like.
Like more like rhododendrons or something like that? Well, yeah, but that's not a native species. I think that the... What we were required over in the other, more recent project is to use as many native species as possible. So it could be mountain laurel, which is a native species. There's also evergreen or mostly here.
And I guess that there's one thing I might add is that we would welcome the input and we can consider plantings that would be along the town's right-of-way. We just have to be mindful that much of this work will be done within, an MWRA easement. And so we just have to be mindful of what is allowable from them relative to having, you know, their Hultman aqueduct is in very close proximity to this building. So anything that we would do within their easement, within that Hultman corridor, we would have to get their buy-in for that as well. Okay, so the suggestion is a landscape plan. It would be very helpful earlier than later. It's not really the last thing you want to do because it may suggest that you have to move the building a little bit to make room for the landscaping.
Or at least not construct the fence. This would take the place of that, right? That's an alternative. Yeah.
Okay. We can certainly pull something together. So my issue for now is pretty much the same. In terms of the technical issues and the specifications and the electricity, I think we want to hear from peer reviewers on a lot of that information and see better plans. But this one issue is an issue we don't necessarily need peer reviewers for. The fence is uglier than the building. And so is the fence required for security purposes or not? Yes. Okay. We do. So then the screening needs to be outside the fence so that the people who live nearby aren't looking. Because your opaque fence is really ugly so that people aren't looking at this ugly fence. So they see nice plantings instead of the ugly fence. If the fence has to be there, then so be it. But, you know, and I assume outside the fence is also outside of the MWRA's sort of what they care about. So hopefully you can do some dense plantings out there so that people aren't looking. So that people aren't looking at this fence because it's uglier than the building. And the rest I look forward to seeing what the peer reviewers have to tell us about the rest of it before I go and make decisions. Because that's not anything I would like to see. Yeah, the plan shows it as an eight-foot chain link fence with privacy slats. And that sounds terrible. So I'd like to see better there. I was going to ask about the Castle Road fence. I was going to ask about the road pump station and why it needed a bathroom, but I think you've already addressed that. It sounds like you're going to pull that out. That seemed like overkill. Everyone else's comments I agree with. Robert, do you have any comments? Absolutely not. Okay. If we have another number, we'll call you Nick. Call Nick, yeah. Nick, do you have any comments? No, nothing to add. Thank you. Thank you. This is in the Aquifer Protection District. And I'm sure you've looked at the regulations. I look to come and I'm having trouble sorting through them. I noted on the plans that you have two areas inside at the Happy Hollow location where it looks like there is housing material that does have some kind of spill control around it. There's another thing inside that I didn't see a vessel for and it didn't look like it had spill control. Can you explain that? Okay. The Aquifer Protection District regulations. Sure. So the vessel that you mentioned that might not have spill control around it that you said. So those, there will be four, they're the largest ones in the facility, granular activated carbon filtration media vessels. Those do not have hazardous materials. I have to put up the . . . Hazardous materials. . . . I'm sorry, I missed that. Can you put up the plan? Oh, yeah, sure. . . . A210 or A202. For me it looks like A210 or A202. . . . So this is our basic layout. . . . So as we stayed with the chemicals. . . . These are all within secondary containment areas. The fluoride over here, it's on its own palette, as it currently is in the existing facility that has its own containment. This chemical is sitting on a secondary containment area, and this is all within a secondary containment. These are the primary filter vessels, and these are some smaller preliminary filtration, that's served to protect these ones. Problems with chemical containment and storage? Problems with chemical containment and storage? You have four substances, potassium hydroxide, sodium hypochlorite. Is that what's in the area that says chemical containment? Yep, that's correct. So the label 112 here, this houses the potassium hydroxide and the chlorine. And where is the sodium chloride? Sodium chloride will sit on this skid right here. So it's on a skid. Why doesn't it have secondary containment? That will have secondary containment. So that sits in a plastic. It sits in a plastic. It looks like a tub, really. And we could even send you photos because it'll actually exactly match the current chemical feed. I know what they look like. So is that how on the plan you would sort of specify that? Yeah, the specifications will specify that that is required. So that will be required. For our DEP permit to specify that. We're approving plans. So the plans will make it clear to us where these things are going. Sure. So you cannot tell from your plan, I don't think, how it's contained. We can certainly add that for the next filing to make sure that that's called out on the plans. It also appeared that you would be storing more of the substances on sheet A-201 and A-210. More of the substances than is allowed by the building code?
Okay. Okay.
Um.
We could certainly. Check that.
Is there. I mean, it says it on your list. Uh, when you look at the code, you have a list of sheets. sidewalks. 18. 10 feet. Um, there is a list that went through all the compliance with the code, the building code, I believe, and that's the notation that you had. Okay. Okay. So you can go back. So you can fill out the right things. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. Yeah, we can get back to you on that one. And also, again, what the chemicals are that are on right now versus the new stuff.
And I'm assuming you're going to be building first and then doing demolition after? Yep, that's correct. Yep.
I just have a bunch of notes, and I want to make sure that I hit them all. Sure.
Do you know what the timing is for the peer reviewer? I haven't got back to him. I emailed him today, and he didn't get back to me yet. I told him, I told him, hopefully by the 23rd. We need it to be by the 23rd, so that these guys respond. You'll also be going before the project goes before the design review board. They'll be calling the meeting, and they'll be giving their comments, and then their comments will come to us. And we'll look at them and see if they're something that we want to accept or not. But usually their comments are pretty good. You mentioned the size of the parking spaces. I think you have to look at all of your plans. If you look at C403, it says that the parking spaces are 18 by 8. And you had already said that on some other place you were going to be correcting it. So that's a good one. so that it would be 9 by 18.5 i believe yep yep so just make sure that's the same in all of the documents sure town planner i believe asked that you show setbacks for everything there was one plan where you appeared to show a front setback and then a side setback which looked like the rear setback and i wasn't sure what you were showing i think that's um c303 that's for the pump station and it's because it's a quarter lot we'll label that better when we resubmit okay
the lab space what kind of lab work are you going to be doing that'll just be grabs samples um so they'll test chlorine to verify the um the online uh monitors so they'll be doing it what what will you use to do the testing um they'll use hawk equipment um so typically um so that'll typically just be a spectrophotometer i believe um we can send you details on okay yeah i'm not sure i have the size okay but all of the utilities will be underground even your um
certain data stuff and everything else
yep communications will be underground
um i wasn't sure if we had gotten all of the building materials and all of the colors
for both both locations okay so if you could clarify that that would be helpful on on the elevations yeah okay yeah i mean yes right um sure a description you don't have to do it now of but you'd like it of the counter delivery protocol for unloading
okay
so you have lighting on several different plants e206 e207 um it looks like maybe e2 10 and e403 um so i'd like to understand when the lights are on uh how bright it is uh how how far the light projects from the building I couldn't tell if the things were pitched down and they are LEDs, which are generally pretty bright. Sure. Okay. At the pump station, it looked like there were antennas. How tall are they and what are they for? Sure, we can get that info. And again, on the pump station, your notes to us say that you were going to have proper landscaping, but there isn't any yet. So when you do put it together, you can explain to us what's proper. And on the pump station, if you don't need to do a bathroom, can you shrink the size of it? Some of that space in there will be useful for the operator storage. We were hoping to keep that for the water department. You spoke of architectural siding at Castle Road. What is architectural siding? We can get maybe a more specific answer from our architectural team. The intent is just to match the residential character of the neighborhood. We can work with you guys if there's any requests or we can propose something that looks nice. I think you probably also have one more requested waiver, and that's number of parking spaces. Yep. Yeah, that's for Castle Road to just let the driveway and the gravel pull-off area serve as the parking for that station. So when you're on the plan sheets, when we look at them, you've mixed two different sites and they have the same heading or the same notation of what they are, which gets confusing because it is one big project, but it's at two separate sites. So if you could sort out which is which site, that would be helpful. Okay. You mean just how the title blocks are, how we label them? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we know what we're looking at. It's easier to look at one set for one and the other set for something else, rather than having them all interspersed with each other? Sure. Check your symbols on the legend on each of your plans, because on some of them, I saw things in the legend that I could not find on the plans. And on others, there were things I was looking for from one sheet to the next and I couldn't find them. Right. For example, at C205, I couldn't tell if the legend was complete. I couldn't find some of the symbols on the plan. And where is the wooden guardrail? And what is the rectangular surface? It's adjacent to the building. It has circles. And I didn't see that kind of diagram on the legend. Mm-hmm. We'll make those update. On C302? Why are you using riprap versus gravel at what looks like the construction exit? For that one, we wanted to use large diameter stone, just to knock the dust off of any vehicles that are turning onto Castle Road. I think it's just a nomenclature thing. We wind up calling it out as large diameter crushed stone. And we called it riprap here, but we can specify what that is. We'll update it in the detail. Okay. Riprap usually holds up a wall. Yeah. Yeah, this is where the setbacks were strange on this plan. So you'll fix those and let us know what the setback is. Mm-hmm. The side, the front, and the rear. Okay. So you refer to C304 existing and proposed easements? Or is that just the helped-min aqueduct? Or what is the easement that you're referring to? Okay. I don't think the MWA uses the term easement, so we can update that, but it's basically a right of usage there for the time.
C-201 through C-205, water courses and water bodies, including ponds, streams, brooks, and ditches. I might have missed it, but I didn't see them on those plans.
Sure, those are just the flagged areas. The WFDA. The WFB series up in this portion here.
We can make a clarification on the legend if needed for those. Yeah, I think you're going to need a clarification because it's not clear.
Okay. Plansheets says that you have. Special features showing including stonewalls, densities, historic structures, ledge outcroppings, large trees, etc. And you're going to be adding trees so that we know where they are. But are any of those other things really on this site? Or on either of these sites?
I don't believe so, but we'll add a certification on the plan once we verify. And indicate the maximum heights on each of the buildings. Are you going to have any signs on these locations? I don't believe we're proposing any permanent signs. Okay. On the form C. You referred to. I don't believe we're proposing any permanent signs. Okay. On the form C. You referred to. I don't believe we're proposing any permanent signs. Okay. On the form C. You referred to C203 and C403 existing and proposed signs, and you say yes. So, check that.
Fire hydrants, are we able to see those on the plans? Yes. Bye.
Yes, those are on the utilities plans. Yep. C203 and C205. Actually, I do see one. Yeah, the hydrant is just to the right of the transformer and the dumpster. Okay. Oh, there it is, sorry, I couldn't find it on the keyboard. I don't know if you showed this or you didn't, setbacks for existing and proposed structures and parking and loading facilities. Site two, C201, C203, C303, but I'm not sure that I saw the setbacks for parking and loading. So just check that and make sure.
I'm sure I got them all. We had to do an unbelievable amount of permitting at the federal and state and local level. So good luck. Yeah, thank you. Are there any other comments from the public? Identify yourself and your attributes. Okay. Okay. Can you come out? I have a question. Can you just address and then speak? My name is Barbara tomorrow. I live on the junction. Can you come up for this? I live on the junction of all connects a path Castleville. This is going to be directly that it pops to me. I brought my brother today with some questions and concerns. It's a family home with live care over 75 years. My name is William Ross. I'm speaking on behalf of my sister, Barbara DeMauro, and her husband, Michael. We object to the planned location of the pumping station and aspects of the proposed subject due to health, safety, site, and environment concerns. Castle Road is a narrow residential street. I think if you look at the top front page there, you'll see that. The front steps of the DeMauro House are seven feet from the road, less than 30 feet from the edge of the site, and facing the proposed entrance and driveway. There is little space for trucks to turn into the site from Castle Road, particularly with street parking. We're concerned about ambulances accessing the house, particularly during the construction phase. In the past two months, ambulances have come to the house at 374 Old Connecticut Path on four occasions. Egress from Castle Road is dangerous. Look at the second page of those pictures. Cars travel at speed around the curves on 126 to the left and right of Castle Road, and there is very limited vision in the evening. In fact, Ms. DeMauro's car was hit while exiting Castle Road in June of 2026. There's a police report which records that. 126 sees heavy traffic that backs up in the mornings and evenings. School bus stops are at the foot of Castle Road and directly across 126 at Sycamore Road. The Castle Road site entrance is not a safe location for a pump house and its related constructions. A traffic study should be undertaken to include a review of these concerns during the construction phase and afterwards. The anticipated construction... The construction, vibration, and ongoing ambient noise and vibration levels from pumps and other equipment and proposed mitigation measures are unclear to us. Will the pumps be operating 24-7, for example? What is the noise level expected to be while in operation? What would the decibel range be? Lighting. It's already mentioned there will be outside lighting at the site during construction. Again, we want information on outdoor lighting, lumen level, location, footing, and light direction. Water flooding. It's unclear... It seems that the filtration site and catch basins for runoff from construction services are underground. I assume they are. Could the system affect the absorption of flooding septic systems? Given the existing flow of water and seasonal flooding toward the mouth of Castle Road, we object to the mitigation provided as inadequate. The last picture shows flooding on the aqueduct site by Castle Road. Subject to the mitigation provided as inadequate. The last picture shows flooding on the aqueduct site by Castle Road. Seasonal flood. We are also concerned about devaluation of the family home. In summary, we request that the proposed project be relocated to a less congested area with safer and more available site access with better drainage. If the site is not to be moved, we request that you move the proposed site entrance away from Castle Road. Provide detailed written information for construction phase and afterwards on noise with decibel levels, outdoor lighting, as I explained earlier, vibration levels, and potential water runoff and filtration system impact on abutter septic systems, mitigation of dust during construction, potential Castle Road 126 blockages due to construction. And we do not, again, waive the required traffic study. It should be performed taking into account the safety issues with 126 and Castle Road, as discussed earlier. 370 Old Port Old Connected Path has been a family home for 75 years. Barbara and Michael, who live there constantly, Michael, who is disabled and requires constant care, are retired on a modest fixed income. They live less than 30 feet from the proposed site. Their front door is almost directly opposite the site entrance and driveway. They will bear the burden, along with other abutters, of both the construction and operation of the pump house, including impact on property value.
So, in conclusion, we do oppose the site, first of all. And second of all, we seek information. All the items I've just discussed. Who can have that available? My notes? Yeah, your notes and pictures. If you can keep the pictures. I understand. If you have them available online, then you could email them. That would be helpful. And then we can put them into the record. Okay. If you can't, then you can drop them in the copies.
Most of my concerns were kind of addressed there, but I'll probably echo some of those. So, good evening. My name is Paul. I'm a resident of Castle Road. Speaking on behalf of, I think, most of the residents here on our streets, just regarding the Castle Road pump station. What was your last name, Paul? Johnson. So, I understand the town needs to improve the water system. I'm not here to push back against that clean, reliable drinking water. My concern is more about the location. More about the location of this facility and whether it's been adequately studied or its potential impact on our very small residential street. The proposed facility, it doesn't seem like a small utility box. It describes a 724-square-foot building, pumps, exterior generator with parking area, driveway, septic, communications equipment, and, of course, the fencing. It's immediately surrounded by the property. The site is located on Castle Road as well as Wallace Road, and the application itself acknowledges this, that it's adjacent to these properties. But that site of the intersection with Castle Road and Old Connecticut Path is very dangerous. It's very blind in both directions. I understand the site does not necessarily generate much traffic, but it most certainly is probably going to obstruct it and make it even more dangerous. So, that's my biggest concern, is safety. Kleinfelder is asking to waive the required traffic study, arguing there's not going to be a measurable impact, while the town's requirements say that they should do exactly that to study safe site distance, pedestrian traffic, adjacent intersections, and, of course, our small residential road and the impact it's going to have. So, I don't think the board should accept a conclusion. The board should accept a conclusion that there would simply be no impact on that area without that analysis. In particular, I would ask the board not only to consider the facility's daily operation, but to look at all these things. The obstruction of sites, not just the building itself, but also when trucks are going to be parked there, the placement of construction equipment, construction traffic, the vehicle stop frequency, of course, the noise and light pollution, and, of course, the traffic. Emergency access, as well, and whether this road can actually handle that. And I'd also ask whether or not there's been other locations, I guess, that have been considered for that pump site. Lastly, the noise, I would like the board to potentially address that, as well, just to see what is the actual level of noise that residents are going to hear when the pump is in operation. Okay. And then, I guess, I would mention, finally, here, that the proposed screening is essentially just events. That's pretty much what the application says. For a permanent industrial-looking structure, you know, immediately adjacent to the homes, as well as on a relatively scenic roadway land, I think the board should probably require more meaningful aesthetic design and vegetation cuts. For a buffer to that property. So, at a minimum, I would just ask that you at least deny the requested traffic study waiver and require a closer traffic and safety analysis of streets, an independent noise analysis, perhaps a more meaningful vegetative screening plan, and, of course, evaluate more closely the impact on our street, Castle Road. If those issues can't be adequately resolved, I would just ask the board to consider whether or not this is an appropriate location. Thanks. I'm going to ask you not to repeat the same. No. We have another here. My name is Katherine Wilkins. I'm at 8 Castle Road, which would be directly next to the proposed pump station on Castle Road. In addition to everything that has been said before me, which I'm in entire agreement for, one of the things I wanted to add in consideration of the safety is that in addition to being a busy area on OCP, Old Connecticut Path, the proposed fence line, in addition to being heinously ugly, is also going to obstruct the view from the other side of the street. So, right now, we have a blind corner coming from the opposite direction. And, you know, it's not going to be a safe area. And now you want to put a six-foot fence pretty much up to the side of the road, which is then going to obstruct any line of sight to oncoming traffic the other way. I, myself, have a seven-year-old that's going to Happy Hollow. I know that there's several other younger kids on the street and new drivers on the street trying to get out and into the traffic pattern. And I just wanted to reiterate everything that was said and add the additional concern that this fence and large building is going to conflict the view. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Matt Walsh, 7 Castle Road. Just to specifically talk about visibility and fencing, I understand that the building may need to be protected for security. But if we could look at what visibility, you heard, like, the laughter when you talked about traffic being an issue. It's because everyone who has kids or has had to cross the street there has feared it every time. If you look at the left, you can see that there's a lot of traffic. If you look to the left, you have two seconds by the time you can see a car until it's in front of Castle Road. That's two seconds. When you got hit, they couldn't even take the cars apart. There were no skid marks whatsoever. You have to understand, we've appealed to have speed bumps to do things. This is already a high-risk area. And to not have a traffic study prior to this, to see the impact this is going to have. The bus stop, they cannot, they said they won't put a stop sign or a yellow sign because the bus, it's not safe for the buses to stop there because there's not visibility. It's already been identified as a very dangerous area. And so to add this infrastructure is just not safe. Also easement. Children are going to walk. There's no place for them to walk. If they want to go to Wallace Road, what are they going to do? They're going to walk around the fence. They're going to have this much road. Make an easement. Don't put the fence all the way around. Kids are going to walk. They're going to walk around the fence. Go ahead. And I asked the owner of that address to jump out. I'm trying to get them to stop. What? Who's going to help me with that? We're not going to help them with that. We're going to help them with that. We're going to take care of them. We're going to be safe. And that's just the end of that. It's just going to keep me going. And it's going to, you know, keep me thinking about it, how do we do this? And we're going to get that to work. It's my family and our next-door neighbor.
I guess I'm mostly interested in whether there's anything that indicates whether if this system somehow breaks or ruptures or there's a terrorist attack or whatever, what can be done to at least be aware that that's happened and that there may be a lot of flooding happening because of it. It has happened before. I'm sorry, I didn't understand.
We live on Ravine Road. It's called Ravine Road because it's actually a ravine. The ravine starts on the other side of the road from where the aqueduct is, and then on this what I'll call the north side of the existing aqueduct, it flows downhill from there kind of to the northwest, if you will. So it's between Cass Road. It's between Ravine Road, which is most diagonally to Wally Swim. It's going to run downhill. Okay, great. Thank you. Right into the swamp, right into the people on Ravine Road.
And it has. People in the MRW and WRA have problems. They forgot to turn off the valve. The water kept coming from the bottom and it went downstream. Are you Ms. Livingston? Yes. Thank you. I'm sorry, I also wanted to mention that that area is mowed once or twice a year. I don't know how that changed. It's not necessarily a concern, but this is going to be kind of an obstacle, what people currently do there. I guess it's MWRA, but there was talk that the town of Wayland would take over the mowing of those aqueducts in our area.
I'm willing to stop. I think we're all done, hopefully, with public comment. I just have a question. I have one more question. Is there another proposed site? No. Currently, there's not. And I'm going to let the applicant, I'm going to let Mr. Holder speak to that, why that site was chosen for the pump station. So the site was selected because there are a number of obstacles that we have to accommodate, one being the very significantly sized Haltman Aqueduct. The MWRA is allowing us to place, to place this on their easement, so that is a tremendous benefit to the project. And the location of the pump station itself is really just about to be able to properly, logistically place a pump system to be able to pump water received from the MWRA up to the hydraulic grade line that Wayland operates at. And that location is selected as the most applicable location. For that to happen.
It says in the plan that it's due to serve so that the people that are working at the pump station don't need to waste so much time going like. No, that's not what it said. It's just comparing. It's comparing the distance. And they're just saying that you say man hours and traffic. I don't think that they said that's why they chose that location. Considering all of that. So what are some of the concerns? Would they be willing to at least consider an alternate site? Because there's a lot of concern about this location. So I think at this point tonight, we've heard a lot of concerns. We appreciate that. We will look at each one of these. I'm confident that we'll be able to make adjustments, accommodations, provide information that will soften. The location. The look of this location, it will make it more attractive, less of a burden to the neighborhood. I ask that we be allowed to at least do that because to relocate this pump station at this point in time, it may not be practical to meet some of the financial and regulatory deadlines that we're faced with on this project. I would ask that we. I just feel like our safety is more important than. How does that work? I'm willing to change the safety concerns. I mean, we're not really totally complaining about how it looks. We're just saying that, like, you can't even fit too far out of our road. We're going to deal with this at our next meeting. They'll be answering the questions. And so now I have to figure out when we can have our next meeting. Okay. So I'm going to stop the public comment for now because we can't answer your questions right now. We don't have the answers. And Robert. Yes. I want to choose the next meeting at a time when they have, the applicant will have an opportunity. I would suggest October 7th at the earliest. Because then week 923 is the next one, which would mean that the first peer review wouldn't even be done by next week. Just for the fact that we haven't given a response or something. If we do the 23rd, then we would need a peer review. As soon as possible for them then to respond. Right. So tell me when you think that we will get the peer review for them. And then we can ask them about how we'll take them. October 7th. I haven't heard from the peer review yet. I'm not sure if anyone can respond yet. When did you first contact them? Today? No. A while ago. I mean, a month ago. And how are you fixed for the observation? Is it field-wide development? I'm not sure. You were asking about the Conservation Commission. We're going before them on September 30th. September 30th. Can I ask you to put your voices down? So would you be going to the next hearing on October 7th? So that you will be able to go through the Conservation Commission? Yes. I would have had an opportunity to look at the peer review comments, which hopefully we will have by September the 21st. I think I heard October 7th. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That would be sufficient. That would be fine. Okay. So we'll need a note from you extending the time for us to finalize. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I have a question. I want to ask you as a decision. And Robert, should we ask for it out further? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to. I don't want it to be. Sure. I hate to ask this, but if we can do it sooner, we will definitely do it sooner. But if we could have a request for a comment, I'm not sure if this works. A request for an extension of time for rendering the decision until November, wait, what's that, Friday? Six. Until November the 6th, because after the hearing, we'll see what we have. At the next hearing, we'll see what else has to be done, and then we have to write a decision. Okay, yeah, we were hoping for late October, but if November 6th is the date, then we'll... And that's just so we don't have to keep continuing over and over again. It's a lot of... We're hoping we can do it before that. Okay. All right, we appreciate that. So that's for rendering the decision.
So either Tom or either you or someone on the client side can just email me. And just an email responding that you agree to continue to extend the decision deadline to render a decision to November 6th. I can do that. We'll end the record. Okay. And then we'll continue the hearing until October the 7th at 7.15 again.
Okay. Okay. And I have a motion to continue the hearing on PE2603, site plan for Happy Hollow Treatment Facility and Museum or Pub Station to October the 7th at 7.15 again. 7.15. All in favor? 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. 7.15. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you.
So thank you. In the meantime, do you have a traffic plan? We're not going through. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. to be happy thank you so much allowing them to leave it or we haven't discussed it well you're just not going to know that i'm sorry i apologize i'm learning everything in a meeting um and um the board has to discuss it okay uh and so we're not there yet we told you told them what you wanted yeah and they're going to respond when they have fun yeah at the hearing uh they will probably submit stuff before it'll be on the website under that number and you can see you know what they'd send in okay so just check the website and then come on so we're done yeah okay um and i was wondering i mean i've been having the first hearing um where people can come um is it better for you to come or would you be okay if you're doing it online i think so i think that's right i feel that it gets lost okay because for us it's easier to do it online yeah but it affects you so thank you for coming thank you so much thank you
at the chairs
oh no those are all you think they're on them they're all on um if you go to the planning board webpage left hand side um applications it's down on the side click on that and then look for this number which is 2603 and everything that they've given us will be there i'll have to i'll look at the site tomorrow i'll put a sign in the mall but i'll get the applications here is that all there right
okay
so we'll probably have to get back in the slavery starts yeah
maybe they never get behind something like
things and everything right here it's like it's parking in anything
where is it oh no i don't know if i'll be good
with the public comments on you okay um i think we're going to have to get back to you all right um um um um um um um um um um um um um if you are going to please um you know you know if you know a lot of people oh do you think that there's more stuff than anything and well that would be good if you have I have an application by N.P. Wainwright, R.R.C. for amendments to the Kutztown map for special permit. I'm going to let you fellows speak first and then we'll have questions from the board and the town planner and if there's any public comment we'll be back to you and then we'll come. That sounds great. Well, it's nice to see you all. For the record, Jesse Baracon from Graffito SP and I'm joined by Anthony Wrench from Legacy Capital Ventures. So we're here on behalf of the applicants. Our two respective firms are two of the three general partners in the LLC which is N.P. Wainwright LLC. So Madam Chair, members of the board, Robert, we're excited to be here. I think we prepared plenty of notes. We have materials we're happy to share, but we also recognize and respect we've been before this board although it wasn't a hearing several times. We are happy to defer to you, Madam Chair, in terms of how you would like to use this time most productively. We're happy to share some preliminary remarks but also don't want to share some of the same materials we've shared previously. So you tell me how best to run this hearing. Well, I would like to not do what we've done previously. So if you want to just run over what it is that you're asking for now, that would be great. Okay, great. So as you've all seen from prior materials and our ask really hasn't changed, although it's obviously been formalized by our formal hearing, coming off conversations with you all, the Select Board, some of our abutters, working with many folks in the town, we have really focused our application and requests around amendments to the Master Special Permit in three areas, which we've discussed. Those three areas are based, as I said, on feedback from the community, are also notably based on feedback from many of the tenants we have at Wayland Town Center, as well as we've had now almost 10 months owning Wayland Town Center. So not only have we been out in the community in terms of talking with Wayland residents and some of your own neighbors and our neighbors, but we've had the opportunity to speak to those folks that are required to really turn this place around, many of the retail tenants that currently are leasing from us. They're frankly our clients and the folks that we're looking to serve better, as well as future tenants that we have been recruiting to Wayland Town Center. We have two leases we've executed. We have one that's at lease. We have a plan that we are really excited to start rolling out really starting this fall and commencing with what we hope is a positive decision from you all on this application. So those three areas, as you know, that we really focused on, kind of starting from the edges of the site and then moving inward, are the entries, the gateways, better signage, more contextual signage. We feel this is hypercritical for both visitors as well as our own tenants and future tenants. We're happy to speak more about the Route 27 and Route 20 signage. I would also flag something that Rob had raised last time was providing as much space as possible for tenant signage. So one of the staff comments back was actually around, from Rob, was actually around just how many tenants we will be creating space for on our signage. And what we've tried to do, which is very much what we try to do with many of our projects, is create as much flexibility as possible. So there's a maximum number we could put tastefully and there's a minimum number we could put tastefully. We will probably end up somewhere in between there. And as the site evolves over time, not so dissimilar from some of the signage you see now, there may be certain tenants that we would call anchors, like the prior ownership did a deal, two owners prior, with Stop and Shop, and in their lease they have certain rights to a certain size sign within our signage. So we're looking to do this in a tasteful way with as little subjectivity around who goes where as possible, but also provide more opportunities to advertise those retail tenants on site than there are currently. So, and we can go over those numbers, because again, that was a question, happy to clarify. So that started gateway signage. Moving in a bit further, as we've discussed at length, there are a series of unbuilt parcels, borrowing the Chair's language, which we discussed, that we think are ripe for activation for community uses as interim uses, temporary uses, you might say. We've had the benefit of speaking with a handful of community groups over the last, we'll call it really six months, and understand there are certain desires and needs for Wayland residents, which range from fields for kids programs, programming and sports, to a dog park, and working with a nonprofit on a seasonal ice skating rink is something we're quite keen and excited to do. I'll just state for the record, you know, we have some work to do with Raytheon on this matter. We come before you recognizing that we have this work to do. We think it is I wouldn't say it's dispositive, but it would certainly be helpful to have a positive decision on these matters from this board. I'm not convinced that means so much to Raytheon, frankly, but it's work that AJA's been leading with one of our other partners, and we feel pretty confident that we can push through and move the needle on it. But it is one of the constraints of the site. So, and then the third one, which really is not our idea, but is drafting off a lot of work at both the town level, as well as the Shared Streets application, some of our original conversations even pre-close with the town manager and robber, as we were doing our due diligence was around the pedestrianization of Alyssa Avenue. We have tried to do our best to take the work the town has already done, with years and years of community input, and then some more since we closed on the site, and come up with something we think is very workable for tenants, particularly related to outdoor dining. We've come up with something that we think is very workable, that previously wasn't in any of the prior iterations of the plans for the fire department, which has to do with kind of just holding despite folks wanting the entire thing to be a permanent canvas for activation, holding a 20-foot fire line in the middle. The fire department was quite adamant about having this. We are agreeable to it. It does not mean we can't close it for certain special events at certain times, like we did last Friday. We had a great block party with Arts Wayland. 500 people showed up. It was quite wonderful for any of you folks who were there. And then lastly, working with public safety and police around a bollard system, recognizing that there are some concerns that folks who are used to taking a right, although very few, if you're coming up Alyssa, from 20, there were some concerns they were so used to taking a right on that, that we need to have sturdy enough bollards that would prevent cars from barreling through. We don't view that as being a huge concern, but we are committed to finding bollards and inspecting them with police to make sure they meet their standards. We would replicate that on the other side of Alyssa. Those bollards would be operable. They would allow the fire and police department to remove them as needed in the case of emergencies. So, that is the final element. You know, we included elevations and specs for the signage in our application materials, as well as a section in plan view of Alyssa Avenue, dimensioned with some of the public realm features in particular that we've been making. And with that, hopefully there's nothing that is new. We are hopeful that there are no surprises in our application, and look forward to questions from this board, as well as the public.
Do you want to start, Robert? Oh, we saw the signage. I think the signage you're proposing is like 90 square feet. So, it's on the first sign, on Route 20. I believe that was 90 square feet, and the one we have today is 55 square feet with six panels. That is the You only pull up the renderings. We actually have some pictures of the current signage, as well, if that's helpful for the board. I can log into Zoom and pull those up. So, it's about six panels today, which, panel-wise, it might be outdated a little bit. I mean, it has one big attendant, two small ones, and three very small ones, which she probably can't even read. The other sign was proposed at No What was it, also 90? One side, though. On one side. It doesn't have a second sign. And that has, currently, at the second sign, which is on Route 97 entrance, the sign is 55 feet, and it has six panels. The one today? Yeah. The other one is... It's almost a doubling of the size of the sign at Route 126. But keep in mind, this was written, this decision was not written two years ago, or one year ago. This was written in 2008, so what made sense back then may not make much sense today. And that's the kind of kind of way Yeah. My issue is just making sure that everything is correct when you read it, those different numbers. Size-wise, I measured different numbers. Maybe just the way we measured, each one measured it a little differently. I measured it 81.9 square feet, to be exact. Just those small things that need to be concise and be correct, so that we're not debating it a year later when you assign people coming in, and then it's different and we improved. Also, if you want to have some... I would have some maximum number of tenants, and if you want to, in the future, take two tenant spots and put it in as one bigger spot, to allow for a big tenant to come in, part of a lease agreement, I think you just need to be very clear on what you're looking for for the plan point to approve, in that case. So that we're not coming back later and saying, we need to change the tenant numbers. We said six, but now we actually need eight. We want to do it once, and we've done it so that we're not amending it again and again. Yeah, Madam Chair, I think... Is there a chance we respond? So, what we were trying to do, if you see on the screen, this is the current signage. I think they were trying to do something similar to what we're trying to do. They had, you know, they were doing a little bit of a mix and matching. I'm sure this has changed over time. It's not fully I mean, it's not legible, these ones below for cars. And it's not fully filled in, but you can see where their, quote, anchor tenants are on here. So we tried to embrace something that we thought was a little bit more beautiful, but also similarly had...we could be flexible in terms of how we thought about the allocation of tenant signage. So, you know, to Robert's point, you know, what we had put in our language was no more than 14 panels, which gives us the flexibility. Right now, what we're showing is 12 right here. You could imagine and the maximum that we would do would be 14, which would mean we'd have at least two larger ones. And we could change this however this board deems appropriate. But the idea is having the ability to mix and match between one straight across, as you see in tenant one, and then the scheme that's tenant five and tenant six. Our biggest concern that is concerned is visibility. And one of the things with existing signage is you just can't see these here below. They have no utility whatsoever. They're not even permitted. Oh, that's interesting. Only six were permitted. Yeah, so our revised language allows up to 14. We'd be happy to see that be up to 16. I don't think we'd ever use 16 in this plan. But that would give us the flexibility then, to Robert's point, where you could do all of these, you know, eight on one side, eight on the other. That's for the root 20 signage. So if it's up to 14 and 16, and then you would say eight on one side, eight on the other? It would be up to, I don't think we would ever need, we went with 14, because in the real world, I think what ends up happening is that we have a minimum of two. We'd be very happy for the language to be up to 16. And we don't necessarily think we need a minimum, although if you would like to say the minimum is eight, that would... Yeah, I don't care about the minimum, I care more about the maximum size of each panel. Yeah, so as drawn. I guess I had missed that when I was reading through this. Um... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Because you've got a whole bunch of land on each side, as you can see here and here, you know, there is the chance. It's more visible when you're coming from the east, but we would still put signage when you're coming eastbound from the west. So we dual-sided.
And would the tenants be on both sides? So if I had a coffee shop, would I get – how would that work? How are you going to plan on doing that if a coffee shop comes in? And wants to say, I want to be both sides. How would it be the same tenant mix on each side? So the idea would be to just mirror each other. I think I'm going to ask you to write it up so that we can see because it's a little confusing right now. So we were just looking to replicate the existing language in the current MSP. We are happy to actually propose language that is more prescriptive, having to do with the actual signage panels, we'll call them, versus the overall. So we're happy to do that. How could it be a mirrored surface if you want a total of 16 and you're proposing 8 on each side? No, a maximum of 16 on each side. It would be on the other side. The way it's written would be – Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. I thought you were splitting them. That's the sound of what – which is why I was getting confused. You can write it and we'll look at it. All right. That makes sense. So panel snacks. Does anyone have an issue with that? Which one? What was it? What was the question? I wanted to know if anybody had an issue with what Jesse just described.
And the size doesn't bother you? No, it doesn't bother me. Because the MSP says that signage should be in the traditional marine language.
I think that's – as we have found, drafting the guidelines, that's very arbitrary what that means. Can you show the existing sign again?
I'd be happy to show the existing sign. That's not – That's not – No, I mean – That's not – No, that's a great point. Are they – As far as signage, we obviously share this language with our signage consultants. I think that unlike the current sign, and actually unlike the current sign, and unlike the city's prior studies, what they tried to do, with all due respect, is think about natural materials, the woods they're using, the kind of stone they're using, even the colors, and kind of matching that with our best interpretation, which is assuming that the manifestation of Wayland Town Center is built today is in the classic New England style, and trying to match it with that. So that was how we tried to do it. Do you have a picture of – I think you just showed – Do you have a picture of the one that the previous person wrote? Yeah. Yeah. That's so ugly. Well, this was the designer's board. No, that wasn't – That was – That was one of the renderings that they were working on. And then this was the prior owner over here to the right. Yeah. Yeah, that was – Yeah. That never went anywhere because it wasn't – It was in the wrong place. It wasn't on their land. Right. So just for my clarification standpoint, what we're discussing is adding specific language around the total number of tenants that can be on the side. So if it's 12 on each side, then specifically states it can be 12 panels on each side, or up to – And the specs. And the specs of the panels on there. But it's not in the writing. It's not in the writing. It's not in the actual – So taking everything out of the visual and make sure it's in writing. Got it. And we'd like the maximum size of the panel. Maximum size. Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. We can do that. And also, we might as well address now lighting because it can't be internally lit. It will not be. Externally lit. That's correct. We're not asking for any change in that. And you're putting it in the same location? Yeah, they'll be below, kind of pointed out just like they are now. I think right now, too, before I would – Yeah, do you mean the light and then the sky? That's correct. That's correct. Yeah, the other thing I would say, and this has been a challenge for us, and we are taking this seriously, is this idea that's come up in the Master of Light. There's a lot of language around this so-called New England heritage design. I'm sorry. And we actually use that also in the way in which we thought about the brand of the place. And it's one of the reasons why our branding firm, you know, this is what you're seeing here, was inspired by kind of the rich New England history of quilting. You playing off the Ws and the way in which we can knit this. So it is completely subjective, but at the same time, we try to do our best to kind of honor that, knowing that at one point and one moment in time, it was important to the town. But then you painted all the buildings gray. Yeah, we didn't – Our interpretation also is that those past spells, like, felt a little bit more to us, like, beach town outlet than they did – No, I'm being serious. We talked about these things. Like, that was more reflective of – Yeah. The vintage of that. That is much more Florida outlook and all look. You see that all over Florida than we thought Wayland. So we would love to kind of enhance the character of this place actually through the banners, through signage, through tenant signage, as opposed to the offshades of pastels in the buildings. Yeah, I don't think they were intended to be pastels so much. But, you know, in a small town – They were. Yeah, in a small town, you know, most houses aren't all painted the same color. So to me, it's more a small town than – Because, you know, my house is gray and the house next door is blue and the house on the other side is white. So to me, it breaks it up more. When it's all gray, it's just all gray. And it's also different – It's different – You know, if I wanted to say, oh, now Takara's where they are. Sorry. There's one restaurant over where it is. Before, I could say, oh, it's over in the red building. Yeah. And people knew. Oh, it's over in the yellow building. And people knew. Now, it's just all gray. Yeah, it's a great point. I mean, we want people to know our tenants by their quality. The quality of those tenants and what they're offering, like Takara or – Yeah, but especially with Alyssa Avenue closed, people are going to have to be coming through that alley. Yeah. Because they're going to have to park in the big lots. And so, you know, people – Do you know where, you know, so-and-so is? It's the third gray building down, you know. Yeah, this is a great point. We'll be back before you all relatively soon with our updated thinking around wayfinding, which is really hypercritical. We felt like this. This was more pressing, these three items, than trying to tackle wayfinding all at once. And we also felt, as we move forward with our plans for the tenanting and rethinking this place from a transactional perspective, that will give us more to think about as we think about wayfinding. And actually, tenant feedback is going to be really important for that. But the point taken is a good one. But I would almost encourage a little bit of addressing the wayfinding a little bit in conjunction with closing Alyssa. Because if people are parked in the main lot – And they need to come through and find businesses that are on Alyssa. We agree. Or cut through, they will need some sort of wayfinding there. Totally agree. So. And on the plans, if you have to redo anything, could you change the title? This says exterior signage wayfinding, and it's not. It's the gateway, and it's, you know, Route 20 and Route 126. You can see that under – In microscopic printing. Yes. It says exterior signage wayfinding. Oh, I think this was actually a – I think this should have been changed in our actual application. Oh, I think we're saying – Where it says exterior signage wayfinding. Yes. Got it. Okay. And this is the preferred design versus option B?
Oh, the option. No, it's not. That was the one I was going to propose, that. Did you remember those? What? The black signs, right? The next – no, the next slide, actually, after this one. Oh, sorry. Yes. This is actually same design, different dimensions. This is for Route 27, which – Okay. This is the current on Route 27. The dimensions are different. We didn't feel it was appropriate going that much higher there. We wanted to mirror as best we could the existing permitting or the existing master special permit, as with the 27 entry, so we went with something that, as you can tell, dimensionally, is quite different, and the reflection of the sign is horizontal versus vertical. Got it. So when you move from – Sorry.
For the sign that's on 27, right now it's 40 feet, and you want it to be non-bid. Okay. Is that covered in the entire – Is that covered in the entire stone wall it's in, or how high above the stone wall does it come? So it's about – it's not about – it's exactly 5 feet 8 inches from above the stone wall to the top of the highest peak on the right side of the plan.
And because of the angle to it, on the other side of the plan, the left side, it's exactly 4 feet 8 inches. So it's about 5 feet 8 inches from above the stone wall to the top of the plan, and it's exactly 4 feet 8 inches from above the stone wall to the top of the plan. Yes. So the gray box at the bottom is the stone wall? Yes. No, that's your stone wall. That's your base. No, that's the stone wall. That's their base. There's a stone wall there, I believe, with stones.
I couldn't be wrong. Are you talking about the current base here? Yeah, no, I wasn't. I thought that there was a stone wall there. There isn't? Okay. All right. I thought it was sitting. Just there's a big planter and a big shrub. There's a shrub. Yeah, that one. Okay. And this is actually good for you also, for the benefit of the board, to see how the lighting is currently down here. Yeah. It's just the opposite. Okay. So it will be, are you going to use that stone wall or you're not using that stone wall? We will not be using that stone wall. Okay. So say again, how high it would be? It would be double that, really, right? Is it more than double? In height? I don't think so. I can pull up the specs in the old master special permit, which are very prescriptive about it. So the highest point is 5 feet 8 inches above the base, and the lowest point is 4 feet 8 inches. Well, in fairness, the highest point is actually 7 feet 1 inch, if you include the base. I was saying from the base. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 5 feet 8 inches is the size of the... It's standing over the oval. Yeah. It's the one I'm trying to say. And the base is to be 2 inches bigger. So the height of it is going to be almost the same. The base will be 2 inches larger than that stone wall. So that's still... Hang on. It's being wider. The sign will be much wider than the one we have today, but it's not proposed. It's not going to be much higher? No. How tall is that existing sign? I'm going to pull it up. It's built to spec based on the existing master... It's a 5'8 from the base of the stone wall, according to this.
It's a great question. I'm in the master's special permit from 2008, which actually has these exhibits. We're looking to swap them out. Yeah, I know. Right. I'm wondering why that goes up there. We are precisely 2 inches. Higher. The current specs, and I think they were built to this spec. I'll just share this.
The current... Yeah, here we go. So we are going quite a bit wider. We think it's needed. But currently, we are going the exact same dimension up from the base, which is 5'8", which is the current sign. And instead of having 1'4", we're going to go up 2'. So it'll be 1'4". So the delta between our signage, top to bottom or bottom to top, is 2 inches higher than the current sign. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah.
I don't think Foodwell Market ever made it.
Is that actually out there, or this is from the original plan? I mean, these weren't candidly built to spec. I think there's a real sign up there. Foodwell Market. So are we okay with the signs now? Yep. Yeah, so we owe you... We'll work... Robert, we'll work with you. We'll get those tweaks this week. Yeah, just get a maximum of panels, and then maximum of the other side of each panel that you're posing. Just so we have a prescriptive in them. What I think we might all do, which I think will be helpful, would be we'll have a little bit of a, essentially, call-out. We'll have a little bit of a call-out. We'll have a little bit of a call-out in the exhibit that just shows the dimensions of those panels relative to the overall sign. So you can just see that in plan as well. Okay.
Let's move on to the unbuilt spaces.
We talk about what you would do in those spaces. If you're serving food, we have the definition of restaurant, and if you're having food served outside, it has to be related. If you're serving food outside, it has to be related to a restaurant which serves food inside. So I wasn't sure what you guys had in mind for Alyssa.
For Alyssa? And anywhere else. Our intent is to use those spaces for the benefit of our rent-paying tenants, and that it would satisfy exactly what you're talking about. If we were ever to do special events out there, like we did on Friday, we'd have to work with the town on a special permit. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. For an event kind of program. Correct. Okay. Correct. Which we've now done several times, and are working with the town right now for Wayland Festival. Yeah. I went to the program that you had last week. It was very nice. Yeah. People can be having a very good time. Yeah. And honestly, that was really arts Wayland. They have proved to be an amazing partner, and we are looking to do more with them. They did a great job in the curation of music. They've got good reviews. We've done what people want. It was an amazing mix, generationally, of young families. Mostly young families. Yeah.
My husband said, I don't recognize a soul. Yeah. Yes.
So with the unbuilt spaces, I know you want flexibility, and I don't think we want to preclude the flexibility, but we need to have some criteria for example. Exactly. What kinds of things you're going to be doing later, because if we said before, you're going to be doing soccer or something like that. You don't get them in the open space. It's not open space. It's unbuilt space. So unbuilt space. Yeah. Not really open space. And so it would need to have fencing or something so the balls don't go in and all that kind of stuff. And I noted that you said that it would be... For your tenants. And I wasn't sure, for example, with the dog park. Could be for it. Okay. That's one of the potential uses. So one of the things that we've been talking about, we weren't able to pull off for the summer, obviously, would be United Volleyball, which is a tenant of ours, that does a whole bunch of different programming. They do summer camps. It would be interesting to allow them to do some of their programming outside on the green space adjacent to their premise. So that would be an example. The use of that green space for the benefit of one of our tenants, but we may use it in a bunch of different ways for other community partners that aren't tenants. So that's the kind of flexibility. But of course, we're trying to provide a list of the potential use cases. Okay. So again, I don't want to make you have to come back to us for everything, but I think that we need to be able to have input. We can do it now. And if you need to change the kind... Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So that you can maybe change the kinds of uses, but you'd have to come back to let us know that you're doing that. And then we would have to, you know, say, yeah, okay. You know? We'd be very... We'd be fine with that. I mean, the idea of not having to come back to you with some of the things that are foreseeable now would be great. And agreeing that if there are those things that we haven't contemplated coming back to this board, I think we'd be very much on board with that. Yeah. I think we have a clear understanding of what we'd like to do now. And then, obviously, I think we'd be very much on board with that. If that changes, we're happy to come back and adjust, right? As far as, like, a use standpoint. But, yeah, no, I think the areas we outlined, the unbuilt space, unbuilt spaces, those are the areas. And then, you know, there was, I believe we outlined six uses, five or six uses. Yeah. That are all potential, you know, actual potential uses with tenants. And I think we would be agreeable, as well, to your point about safety and fencing. To, like, certain language around public safety. I mean, we're going to do it anyway, right? So, we're happy to work with you on language that meets what you're looking for.
But, yeah, we also don't want to do things. And on this one, specifically, we'd rather come to you all on this for clarity, because there is a little bit of gray area currently, and actually know that we're doing things in a way that's in line with the permitting versus relying on other murkier language and some gaps in the permitting.
Yeah, interesting. If, you know, if there was language that said that, you know, an unbuilt space were going to be used for sports play and, you know, used by children, that it needed to be fenced.
That's fair. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean, I think there's some interesting precedent for how, my only pushback to thinking this through would be, how do we do it in a way that's beautiful? There are a lot of different fences. Some of them aren't so beautiful. You know, the ABCC language around creating barriers for establishments that serve liquor is actually not super prescriptive in saying it must be a fence. But it must be a barrier. So I wonder if we could do it that way that would allow us a little bit of wiggle room. I can imagine doing some really beautiful planters with rope in between that may not necessarily be a fence, but provide that same level of separation, but create a much more inviting and beautiful public ground. We would like that level of flexibility. Yeah, I think, to me, the delineation would be if there are going to be balls used, for example. Yeah. Volleyball is tricky because the ball's up high, and you don't want kids chasing balls out into roadways and parking areas. So, well, maybe two. Maybe up to two inches. I don't know. Yeah. Just. But, you know, to consider the usage. And I think it's, you know, we can, or you can come up with language that's flexible enough, but still, you know, allows. Yeah, let us work on it. Yeah. Well, we've seen other municipalities do in situations like this. Largely around arcs and fields is, if you aren't going to provide a barrier or fence, there has to be some sort of buffer zone. Right? So, there's a lot of precedent we can look at and try to come up with some language that makes this portable. Yeah. I can even see a system where you've got planters, but then, you know, if it's going to be used seasonally for a sports area, that you can put posts in and string fencing up. Yeah. And then take it down when it's not being used for sports. Yeah, I think that's how we would do it. Yeah, it may not even be a fence. It may be netting. Right. Right? Like, as long as we can have the flexibility around that, like, we're going to do it right. But I recognize this, you know, another board with other folks may end up having this conversation in 25 years. Right? So, like, we get that. So, we're committed to getting it right. Yeah. And I think for us, it's the ability to say this is an approved use, engage in the conversation, and then what's the next step to then make sure that everyone's happy with the final product. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is in line with a class A execution. So, I think there could even be, you know, a site plan, right, that's submitted. I think there's ways to do it. We'd want to do it in a way that's not too onerous for everybody. Yeah. And the board, because you don't want the board to take you forever to do it. You know? So, I think it would be easier if we could. Yeah. Do you want us to take a stab at working on that language? Yeah, we can do that. And the way you're thinking about it is if we had the type of use and then the things that would go with that type of use. And here's a field. Here are the things that must accompany the field. I got it. Okay. That's great.
Members, please jump in.
See if Nick has any comments. It's next to quiet. See if Nick has any comments. Yeah. Are we talking about? The bike path connection at all? Does that come up? It's next. That's next. After we finish. Okay. I know you just said you don't have to do anything with stormwater management. But depending on what you're going to do in these green spaces or unused spaces and on a list. You're not going to need any kind of drainage changes. Right now, we're not going to buy any uses that would require that.
Okay. Let's move on if that's okay. Come on to the pedestrian area. Yeah.
Nick, do you want to start?
Do you want to start this time on the pedestrian area, unless that's the one that's doing the connection to the rail? Yeah, I think I understood from the plans, I think what the direction was, it all made pretty good sense to me. The only thing that didn't seem really fleshed out was the connection to the bike path and how that would really work out. But maybe I was looking at an old plan set or something. Yeah, you also have to, if you zoom in on that, you probably don't have it. I can pull it out.
From a design perspective, I would say there are three really critical moves we're looking to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the three moves are, one, we believe, and we've talked to DCR about this. We actually had a bike shop operator out last week. We'd really like to get a bike shop on site. Right. The current entry. The current exit on our site from the rail trail is in the wrong place. It's actually at the corner near the truck route. It just doesn't feel safe. Talking about safety. The current, okay, so that's one. Where we want to put it is suboptimal until a few days ago because we've got this massive dumpster there, which is underutilized. So we went ahead and actually removed that dumpster. It looks so much better, right? We had a lot of redundancy in trash. We'd rather reduce the amount of, we're talking about. We're kind of meeting some of the standards of the zoning and the intent here. We would, for example, rather reduce the number of trash receptacles in huge enclosed areas and actually pick up the number of pickups, right? Step that up, which we think is very manageable operationally. So we've removed that dumpster that was there. If you go there on site today, you'll see it's gone. We haven't changed the landscape. We just removed the enclosure and we removed the dumpster. That then allows us to create that connection, Nick, which I think you're talking about, which lines up directly with ELISA. And the whole idea is like, that's our main public realm move. Once it is in very short order paved by the state, like that's where we want to bring people on and off the rail trail in that location. So that's the design intent. I can kind of show you quickly what it looks like in the site frame. And I think to add to that, the idea is to have dedicated parking with signage at the entrance and then to create a true center of the property with ELISA. Leading to the rail trail and to the town green. So if you kind of look at it, when Jesse pulls up the aerial, creates a true center of the property where you can walk from the town green through the ELISA app into the rail trail. What happens when you're walking from the rail trail to ELISA and you're going through the parking lot and there's cars that drive in that way? Yes. So currently there are stop signs on each side. The intent is to take the street painting, right, with all the lines, make it very apparent that this is a walkway, right? Again, it still will be a place that cars can cross, but there'll be stop signs at each side of it. And we're going to, we might add actually two, right, on each. And so they are there now, but we're going to make that even more apparent. And then I think what will help is just having the street. Street painting, connect all the way down. Again, it's just another thing similar to a crosswalk that brings your attention, you know, to it. And so I think, I think those will be extremely helpful in creating a safe, you know, safer walking environment. And it's also something we talked to the police department about too. And that was their feeling too, is that that would be the best way to handle it. Yeah, so AJ's point about stop signs is critical. There are four stop signs. There are four stop signs currently that exist today that basically create a much safer pedestrian zone for moving. Right now, if you all can picture it, you actually come off the rail trail here. There's no stop sign. This is the truck route. The visibility is not great. There's a transformer here as well. So this is actually, the existing condition is far less safe than what we're currently looking to create over here. You can see the outline of where the dumpster is that we recently removed. And then the idea is to actually have... Some place just for kind of passive seating for folks when they get off of the rail trail, where they can sit down, take their helmet off. You know, we're talking to a bike shop about having some sort of, we'll call it like bike rest stop there, which we think would be really fantastic. But this is the move here, connecting back up. And this is the site plan that was in our application materials that then connects back up with Alyssa. And this grayed out section with, you can see these decking elements we've discussed as well as the furniture we'll get. Partially paid for by the Shared Streets Grant, which we're working with the town manager on. That's that zone here. So Nick, you can see, you know, we've showed it on this site plan. Again, you know, you don't have the ability of kind of pinching on the screen here. But you can see this new zone that we're creating here coming right off the rail trail. And that is on the site plan we submitted. From that zone, is it possible to do a raised crosswalk? Or is that... I know the... I was thinking about that certainly. The old police chief did not like raised... any things. But we have a new sheriff in town. And I don't know, maybe it's preferable. It's also on private property. It's not on public loan service. Yeah, I think we want to make it as clear as possible that it's a crosswalk. Right? And I think visually we have to do a really good job of that. You know, from a stop sign standpoint. From a street painting standpoint. I do think the visibility, because it's such a... It's a straight shot all the way down. And then removing any obstructions so you can actually see people well ahead. I think it's really important. You know, I think we're constantly looking at the site. I mean, some of the... We have issues with some of the rays right now that people are actually... Launching them. Launching off of it. So I do think it has to be thoughtful, right? Because... If and when we do have that level of activity, right? Because being on site a lot, I mean, the number of bikers and the number of folks. I think what I've noticed is that everyone's spread out. People are parking by a local. People are parking by a stop and shop. People are walking their bikes. I think the idea is to create concentrated zones. Right? And I think that and making clear visual... Having clear visuals of that is really helpful for safety. So I think when you see a lot of people in a concentrated... Area, you're just less likely to drive fast. So I do think it has to be done thoughtfully. I think it's going to be really dramatic, you know, with the street painting. And then having, you know, kind of that portico at the end where you can, you know... And all the folks that are going to be parking there. And that's in the main area. Are there bike racks? Yeah. So this is... So in the... You can actually see in the site plan, the idea is to actually have bike parking. That was what's shown on the site plan here, as well as kind of what we're calling trailhead seating here. We think that's really important. The other thing I would just say to respond to Robin is that we had a really great abutters meeting with all the condo owners. I am not concerned at all about cars going fast here. This is a parking lot and it feels like that. Cars are slowing down. I am much more concerned about the way in which people zip down Andrew and cut between 20 and 27. Yeah. That's something we've already raised with public safety. So that's something we are looking at. That's where my main concern is. It is an issue. Here, we've just found, and this isn't like, this isn't anecdotal or experiential. This is just the way in which people behave in cars and parking lots. People are slowing down here. The issue I have with where the rail trail is now is that you're coming around the corner. It doesn't feel like you've entered the parking lot yet as much. Once you're in the parking lot, you'll see cars just slow down. You know, you see it now with Toronto. The train's opening. Like, cars are slowing down when they see cars on each side. But we are, this is not why we're here. We are thinking about, with public safety, how we slow people down. Because you see it, particularly in Russia, people cutting through to avoid the light. Well, right. And actually, that was supposedly the purpose of that road. Really? Yeah. That's true? Yeah. Wow.
Originally, the town wanted a real road. Yeah. These renderings. Answer my question. I can see the rail trail now, you know, versus in that other plan. I couldn't actually see where the rail trail was and that kind of organic pathway that connects it.
I noticed in here that you were hoping that you expected emergency vehicles to come off of the end road. And that did not come from the rail trail side. If you're having, if the idea is to have people concentrated on the green and that area and then come into Alyssa, isn't that going to be, if you're having an event congested, isn't it going to be better to come in from the other side? For a fire? An emergency? Yeah. I think when we did this, it's made that you can come from either side. So the baller system would be on either side. Well, no, that's what I thought, but that's not what the write-up said. Oh, really? I think we just, I think we just, oh, in the, oh, in the textual write-up. Yeah, I think he said it was coming from Andrew. Well, that's something, when we had a meeting, I think Robert was there, that I know where this comes from. The primary concern for fire is this zone. You can see my cursor on screen. It is the northern zone closer to Andrew here, because this is where the residential is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their primary concern is access from Andrew. This is coming from fire department. But they could access either way. Yeah, yeah. It's the same system to access from either side, but they were most, they really zeroed in, Robert, you were in that meeting, they really zeroed in on fire truck access for the zone, because there's, the only residential we have is actually above this building right So they would come in not from Route 20, they'd come in from 27. Apparently. And the fastest way in, an emergency. Yes, and I was. I was thinking of coming, I was thinking of Route 20, and then that. Correct. Okay. Yeah. But you were thinking of coming to Route 20. Yeah. The only point is, that's why, but. Okay.
In that area on Alyssa, there is the residential over there. Are there windows from that residential that look down on the street there? Yeah, I believe there are two, is it either two or four. Okay. So with the lighting. Yeah. The current lighting that's there is not approved, just so you know. Yeah, we told the fire department when it came up, we get it, we didn't put it up there. We're hearing from a lot of folks in the community, they really like it. If you guys would like to come down and take it out, take it down, you can feel free to. That was our approach with them. And we've heard that a lot. And, you know, they're concerned about it, but we don't need to go there. But yes, heard. We are aware. And actually, it's something we were talking about in terms of holiday lights, as well as thinking about shutdown times for the block party. We're very well aware we have a resident who lives right above there. Any complaints from the resident at all? Many, but not about these issues. Not about lighting. Not about lighting. Not at an event. Okay. Yeah. So when you do add lighting in that area, how are we going to know what you're doing? Or are you not? I mean, I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell what you were doing. You talked about lighting from lighting up trees. Yeah. The idea would be to light up a tree. It sort of spreads out and could go into their way. It's a great question.
I think we would probably be okay with language that allowed for lighting that was non, we'd have to come up with some language. And anything beyond that, that was. Permanent and had more structure to it. But I think what we're talking about is actually stuff that's up lighting certain landscape elements. I think we'd come up with some language around that. Because I recognize if we're going to put more streetlights there, really illuminate this stretch, that's something this board would want to hear about. Yeah. We understand that. Let us work on that.
One moment. One second. Anyone know at this point how many entryways there are to individual buildings that don't have other, that only have one entry?
Annalisa? Yeah. I'm asking that because of loading. There are currently, there are currently zero. They all have two exits. Correct. Yeah. The design of this place is actually such, which is part of what's confusing about it, is you don't get. There's a front and a back. At times, you don't know which is the front and the back. We're willing to solve that. But there is a front and a back. Okay. So, for loading, that's something that you're going to need to think about? Because. Yes. The loading was sometimes taking place on Annalisa. And I don't think that was the intent. And I think. So, there is a loading zone on the. There is a designated loading zone on the. The other side of that tenant there. And just how all the walkways work is all the walkways connect back to the backside of those buildings. So, from an actual loading perspective, you can get to all of the backside of the buildings through an inner sidewalk that actually has, you know, handicap accessibility. So, also, like, handicap parking and loading is all on the backside of the buildings. On the side opposite Annalisa. Yes. Sorry. The side opposite Annalisa. Parking lot side. Yeah. The other thing that's interesting is just, in practice, the most intensive uses from a loading perspective are full-service restaurants. And those are on the end caps. And they're very easy to load from the parking as opposed to having to be Annalisa. But that's how they currently load.
If there was a building. So, there is one storefront on Annalisa. That does not really have a back entrance. And I know because I go there.
Is that the trainer? Yeah. They actually do. Yeah, but it's, like, through a little hallway. So, if they needed to bring in equipment, you'd make arrangements to take the bollards out and have them get their delivery. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Are there any other buildings that have that? No. But they could actually, they could load from the other side. There's a walkway that takes. Yeah. So, if they're bringing in, like, a piece of heavy equipment, who knows who's going to be the tenant there in the future. If somebody needs to bring a piece of equipment, it could come in the front way. Yeah. I mean, that definitely could be arranged. But most of the time, like, a lot of the retail, you can't pull right up to the retail to load. So, to be able to park 15 feet away and then have a flat surface, I don't think is, you know, because, again, we can't, we don't want to do anything that's detrimental to the having great tenants here. So, like, we have to be really smart about that. Especially, I think we worry a lot about is, like, what's the daily, weekly, right? Because if that becomes, if it costs more money to have, you know, for them to have their services, then that becomes, you know, a collective issue. So, we've reviewed a bunch of, you know, we reviewed that with new tenants, which were obviously, which are going to be hypersensitive and feel like that loading really won't be good. Detrimental. Yeah. Do the buildings where they have a front door and a back door that's either on the road or the parking, do they always have, like, a double glass door? Some of them have a single door on the back and a double door on the front? Not uniform. Depends, yeah. Okay.
That's a good point. For parking spaces, Robert, you said that you didn't have, you weren't concerned with the loss of 12 parking spaces, but the applicant said that they would be losing. 16. Okay. So, 16. Okay. I got 12 right now. Okay. But I'm not, yeah, I'm definitely not concerned with the overall plaza. I think there's plenty of space. Plenty of parking spaces. There's plenty of parking. Yeah, the interesting thing, if you go on site right now, if you're all, like, around in the next few days, you'll see cones out in front of Giacomo's. I don't know who the town, but this was new this year. They said if he wants to. If John wants to use his outdoor dining space, he has to put cones out, and he has to take back the parking spaces, because they don't want cars parked up against. So, you drive by there, we saw cones around. I was like, John, what are these cones? They've been there for months. They've been there for months. Yeah, the town was the one who told him he had to put the cones out, so John's been putting them out. So, the irony is, like, we're just creating safer. I mean, the town's clearly concerned about this, is really outdoor dining. So, that was a new one. I know. That's funny. I don't understand that. I can see one. I can still see one. You can see one in Google, too. Yeah, there's cones. So, we tried to take them in one day. I just can't take those. Yeah. I mean, these cones were terrible. I'm sorry. You stood there? Yeah, I'm just having that feeling. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. We won't have to deal with that moving forward, though. Okay. Yeah. Right. I don't know. I don't know this guy. When you refer on Ulysses Avenue activation to the corridors, is that corridor the rail trail up to? Okay. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing, just to provide some notice to you all on, is that we have been asked, and we've talked to many folks in the community, but the select board has actually asked for our input on the town green. And we haven't really weighed in on that yet, but when we think about the corridor, we recognize that the activation of that town green and some sort of active use there. That will become part of that corridor in the long term. Whatever that is, we don't know. But, you know, that north-south connection between rail trail and town green we think is interesting. I'm speaking just for myself. The green is a green. Yeah. That's all it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be bigger than it looks now. And... For passive use. Yeah. Yeah. Noted.
Did you want to note that not all the buildings can have outdoor dining, too? Well, I think we've talked about that before. They know... There's some similar buildings. Yeah. But I think Alyssa and Ann wrote there are a few that we can't have outdoor dining.
The one that you have that is called Wayland Hill Center Fire Access Dining. Yeah. In the application materials? Yeah. On the end of Alyssa closes to the rail trail. Yeah. It says, restaurant spillout deck with raised planter perimeter. What is that? So we would actually... We didn't render it in, but that's a great catch, Madam Chair. We would like to... We actually spoke to the tenant at Giacomo's about this as well. We think having the flexibility to replicate the treatment that is on Alyssa actually facing the rail trail and potentially recapturing three to four parking spaces on that side for outdoor dining there would actually be quite attractive to a future restaurant. And for us, actually. Because you have a new tenant going in with it that says that. And they might want to have it outdoor. Yeah. And that may mean they have to come back and talk to you all about that. But they very much... We talked to them about one or two of these spaces. I've actively talked to them. That's the space where a new city microbrewery will be done. But you're not asking for that now? Or you are? We would like to ask for that now.
We are asking for that now. I'll be more specific. We are asking for that now. Do you believe the town... Yeah. You're new. You're new to the town center. And we did the parking stuff. And I can't remember anymore how many spaces we had there. And then we were relying on sort of excess in the town center area. We weren't relying on any excess. Not in a single space. Okay. So we put everything on that property? Yeah. 100 spaces. Okay. Thank you. And I add... We believe from our design perspective that actually... We're coming back to your comments. I think what we would really want, although we will not be doing this in the near term, would also be that the approval do the same thing on the other side where Jogger Mose is. We actually think that long term, wrapping this corner and actually having the rail trail facing edge of these buildings activated with outdoor tables and chairs and cafe-like space would be wonderful. So we will ask for that because we think even if we're not going to execute it, as long as we're in front of you all today on this, it would be prudent to put that into our... I think we'll need a tabulation of all of the spaces that you are losing. Yeah. We will add that. It'll be an additional eight spaces we lose. And I know that the number of parking spaces was also based on buildings occupied and unused. So there's probably enough. We should be getting more traffic for what we're proposing. We hope.
We know that I've been alkalized to everything. Anything else? Any other questions? That was a group discussion. When you resubmit that, this plan can... I can tell which end is Andrew and which end is the parking lot. But you should write it on there.
I have a suggestion. I think this is a much improved plan with the end of your right leg coming down to Lisa. So you have the corner of Gordico there now. I think that's really important because when you create an alley like that, you really have to have something happening at the end. And I think the Gordico really should have some height to it. It should be visible from a distance. It should be visible from the bikers. It should be visible from the parking lot. And you should say something's happening there. Just looking at it. You're going in the right direction. Thank you. Anybody else?
That's a good way to put it. I think it's a good way to put it. It won't be something that... The plans are very nice in my opinion, too. Yeah. I mean, I think that we do sincerely... They've improved greatly over the last six months. So we've engaged with folks.
So how would you like to... I think we would like to... I think we would like to... I think we would like to... I think we would like to... I think we will take all these comments. I think we will work expeditiously with Robert to kind of come up with a revised application that includes some of the language as we've discussed for your review. You know, the question would be, would you like us to come back in for another hearing? Or is this something once we update the language based on this discussion tonight, you'll be ready to render a decision on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we have to come back to discuss it. Yeah. And accept it. And then hopefully we could render a decision. Great. So when do you think you would be resubmitting so that we can figure out when the next hearing is? I think at the latest I would say by this time next week just because we may want to do a couple little updates to the site plan actually. But we'd like to get back before you know, as quickly as possible. It's our intention and desire to try to get approval for this so we can start work on it so that we can get this done next spring. So our next meeting is September the 23rd. Maybe we would need the materials a week before. So I don't know if that makes sense or if we should go to October 7th. We can do it. Yep. So by the 15th, we'd have the materials back. And then we're meeting on the 23rd. That's true. That's true. Oh, yes. That's fine. That works for us. What date should she say? 23rd. 23rd. We should have the next meeting on the 23rd. And then it's June 9th. June 9th is a 60-day after the first book hearing. That's what you said. And I think that's right. Yeah. So that would make it November, Sunday, November the 8th. So we're good for now. Okay. I'll keep my eye on it, but we're good for now. Okay. Thank you. So. Can I have a motion? The only thing is, Dan, do you have public comment or are you just? I just want to make sure I was here to say that, as in a butter, we support what they're doing. And I won't be able to attend the next meeting, but 397 Boston Post Road and 372 Boston Post Road representing those two properties. Okay. Thank you.
Do you want a motion to continue the public hearing for September 23rd, 2026? How about 713? Okay. So motion to continue the public hearing to September 23rd, 2026. I'm sorry. Do you want me to?
All in favor?
5-0. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, guys. Appreciate you all. Thank you.
Robert, what's your name again? Yeah, go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah.
Oh, you don't.
We resent it to this day. Good night, everybody. Good night. I resent the decision to this day. It is so hard to read. Oh, yeah. Read. It's the same thing for science. too exciting there goes in this and then it makes these overlaying it's hard there goes the design report that was good it doesn't go no because i i review it and make sure that it actually is compliance with the dimension but the dimension is a lot bigger there okay um so at the next meeting um on the 23rd we're going to go over revised adu regulations sure and i'm going to work on those and get them to you this weekend and then the town center project i'm not sure what else will come up but that's it so far um it's yes
my brain just sometimes leaves me um we have uh oh at the next at the next so far meeting the time is he's going to ask the slug boy to make the designations for the clean energy regulations sitting whatever they call it they make sure that they have the official information the local uh representative manager said in absence of this i'm moving ahead of this please let me know when the slug board actually could vote but i'm going to start working on it now so and i feel a little pressure on his back okay thank you that's what they do yeah months ago
so now you know that works yeah it was okay he's like i wasn't really aware i'm like yeah yeah because um by october the first we have to be accepting applications for uh clean energy projects yeah and there's a whole rigmarole that has to be in place the whole infrastructure and i've been trying for the last six months at least to get it in place and nobody wanted to pay attention you know good for you
we have um the group from sapphicola the environmental law policy clinic
assigning two students to us to help uh draft the route 20 zoning we'd come up with a whole list of things that we wanted to have incorporated um so uh we thought it was a good idea to have them come out for a site walk and to meet as many members of the board as we could and i said that i would get dates and they're going to get dates and i have no idea if it's a day evening whatever i know middle of the day it's not good for anybody so it would either be beginning late or early evening or weekend whatever so if you either now know when you have conflicts or what works best for you that would be great if you don't if you could go home and then send me an email so that i know who put it together what's the time span yeah why don't we get the dates from them first and then we can circulate them and talk about well if you could give me a sense of first of all like times of the day but i don't go anywhere you do so well i work so you know when you were away yeah that was once but um you know like lunchtime is okay if it's we're not going to be out there for three hours okay um what site what are you proposing yeah because i bet they're not going to want to come here first thing in the morning if they're all i don't think you will never be able to get no out here right yeah well i think that um one of the um one or two of the there's um they're not mentors but the people who run the faculty advisors would be coming so i think that they would be able to handle the cars okay so how soon do we think well we'd like to do it as soon as possible i don't know what their schedules are because we can we've been screwing around with this and or anything just gave us permission at their last meeting yeah you know i'm generally around i have a couple of trials coming up in the next two months but it's you know a day here you think they might try a saturday yeah i think i don't know i wouldn't rather than soon yeah that um you know during the week i'm there one that's an easy fix but saturdays you know we don't play so much you don't want to do it on i don't mind we never have any schedule for the next month saturday morning they might they might prefer that i don't know that's why i'm asking does a saturday morning work for you guys or a saturday sometime what and only if it's raining yeah so i mean depending depending on which day yeah which day it were but um we're looking like two weeks out that we're thinking i have no idea i mean i got any stuff too i just wanted to have sort of a general sense because
i think as long as nobody's away then i would get dates from them okay yeah let's let's find out if they're willing to do a weekend i mean is that your preference a weekend that doesn't matter to me yeah okay let's see if they're willing to do a weekend and if they are maybe we can center on that but then um if they're not i'm sure we can figure that out and do like some kind of lunch time thing or you could do lunch there's some days that i have things going on but um let's find out what they want to do first okay yeah
yeah yeah i can do i can most likely do a weekend okay okay is there is is the week bad for you any no i'm pretty i'm actually pretty flexible right now oh really okay um so they're gonna get back to me hopefully tomorrow okay and so um we'll coordinate the timing okay i didn't just didn't want to do anything that didn't work we haven't necessarily given up on a law firm as well robert has reached out to several um and they didn't respond at all so i thought that i would call some people that i knew i think i last meeting um who are too expensive for us but ask uh if they knew of any younger folks that might be available even some of our summer associates you know during the off season for them okay anything else robert um oh there's a hazard mitigation plan public meeting coming up on the 23rd at 10 30 to 11 30 in the coa building and the new mitigation uh coordinator will be there which is made oh i'm now in charge of the when we do after the plan is done i'm in charge of doing the post meetings going for the checklist making sure that we are doing my job twice twice a year is that me with the group and make sure that we're actually on track so do we have a plan now that we can not yeah not planned yet we've never had a plan i thought we had no we we have a plan we don't want to play it this we have a current plan for this one right so would it be helpful if we saw the current plan so i have to dig it out of the dig it up that would be so helpful trash
dig it out of the trash
yeah because i wrote it on my calendar for the company and i saw the note before and i thought i don't even know what the plan is now at one point i think i was on the plan and nobody ever told me that i was and i happened to see something one day and i went oh how nice look there's my name i got volunteered i think it was from when i was a road commissioner okay is there anything else that anybody has in mind
okay may i have the motion to adjourn motion to adjourn secondly oh in favor raise your hand
get it out of the