October 9, 2025 – Sudbury Wayland Sherman’s Bridge Meeting – Video & Transcript
October 9, 2025 - Sudbury Wayland Sherman's Bridge Meeting
Hello. Thank you for joining us this evening. We're here to discuss the Sherman Bridge. This
is a visioning workshop, so we're going to ask that we be patient while we do our brief
presentation. There's going to be time for questions and comments at the end. We ask that
everybody walk up to one of the mics and ask your question, because this is being recorded
for everyone that's at home and couldn't make it tonight, and that once you ask your question,
allow the next person behind you to ask the next question. They'll be answered in the order
that we receive them, and get back in line if you have a follow-up or a second question.
So I would like to introduce our project team. Tonight we have from the town of Sudbury, Tina
Rivard, DPW director. We have Tom Holder, the DPW director for the town of Whalen. The engineer
from our engineering team at TEC. We have Mike Ricciardi, who's going to be doing the
presentation, and I am Nicole Figueredo from Capital Strategic Solutions. We also have the
Whalen and Sudbury town managers here to assist us. Are you having trouble hearing me, sir? Are you
having trouble hearing me? Because you're holding your ear. Maybe not. So the agenda for the workshop
this evening is we're going to provide a brief background in history. We're going to discuss
why the repairs are needed, the improvements to public safety, as well as protecting the
Sudbury River, preserving recreational access, the smarter infrastructure investment,
as well as maintaining the characteristics of the bridge. With that, I'm going to ask
Mike Ricciardi from TEC to continue the presentation.
Hi, everyone. As Nicole said, my name is Mike Ricciardi. I'm from TEC, working on behalf of both DPW directors. A little background on why we're here. We've developed some conceptual plans that have been shared on the project website, but we're looking to gather some community input before we progress too much further. Really what we're looking for tonight is to discuss the goals of the project. Looking to increase safety at the crossing. Secondary benefit of what we're proposing is improving water quality. And the biggest piece of this is we're looking to reduce the maintenance for both DPWs at the bridge. As many of you know, there's been a crossing of some kind here since the 1700s. The bridge in its current form was reconstructed in 1992, and it is jointly owned by both towns and connects Sudbury to Wayland, and crosses the Sudbury River and the Great Meadows National Wildlife Refuge. Repairs are needed at the bridge. We have an aging timber deck that requires frequent repairs that are becoming more and more frequent and more and more difficult to complete. Down below, the riding surface surface is some disconnected substructure bracing where the steel fasteners are rusted and not properly performing like we'd like anymore. And for those reasons, there's some safety concerns for both pedestrians and drivers. The conceptual design that we've worked on so far, a rendering is shown on the bottom left. We're, in order to replace the timber deck, we're proposing a glulam timber surface. Benefit of that is that we can then propose a crash-tested glulam timber bridge rail, increasing safety for pedestrians and vehicles. The suggestion for glulam that we would certainly recommend would be to properly protect it with an asphalt coating and a waterproofing membrane, would reduce maintenance needs, improve rideability over the structure. With the glulam bridge rails, we would like to, or we would be required to install crash-tested approach guardrail as well. And knowing that the important aesthetic of the crossing and the area, what we've tried to incorporate is shown in the photo on the bottom right, where instead of kind of the shiny steel guardrail, we propose to write the specifications in such a way where the steel would be painted. This is a project that we successfully designed and was built in Carlisle, I believe, where we're trying to blend into the aesthetics better. I kind of touched on it, but what we're really looking to do is improve public safety. Glulam crash-tested guardrails are, can be incorporated with the glulam deck, which improves safety for both drivers and pedestrians. New, smoother, wearing surface would make things safer for folks driving on the road. And the glulam would reduce maintenance and just provide kind of a stronger, more resilient structure at the crossing. I kind of touched on it before, the secondary benefit of the asphalt would be being able to install some catch basins and some outlet structures in the approaches. Currently, water or any debris on cars can enter the Sudbury River directly through the bridge deck. So a secondary benefit of the asphalt coating would be to protect the watershed, offer some level of pretreatment of water before it re-enters the river. The outfall structures would have some riprap stones on the banks, which would help reduce erosion. And we'd also look to improve some of the sediment buildup around the timber piles. A unique opportunity has kind of been presented here. When we kind of started working with the towns, we reviewed the bridge inspection reports from DOT, kind of came up with this conceptual plan and presented it to the DOT folks, kind of making sure it met the goals of what they were seeing, addressed the deficiencies that were noted. And they've offered some financial support, trying to be a good partner on behalf of the project. So they've offered, if this project goes forward, to provide glulam decking materials, the railing as well. And while it can't be promised, it's been at least mentioned that they could potentially provide their on-call contractor to install the glulam, install the railings, which would significantly lower costs for both towns. The remaining work, some of the substructure work, some of the approach guardrail would be shared equally by both towns. We obviously know this area isn't just used by vehicles. It's an important recreation area. And so we're trying to make sure that that can be maintained with this project. There would be some temporary construction impacts. The road would have to be closed during construction with a detour route. But we'd certainly, we view this as a way to maintain this structure, make sure that it continues to live on, and that we're trying to, you know, keep the benefit that this area has. And just to kind of summarize everything and touch on what we talked about, it's, as currently proposed, project is a rehabilitation. We're not trying to replace the Sherman's Bridge. The timber substructure elements would remain. The timber beams would remain with some localized repairs as needed. Bridge footprint would be maintained. And trying to accomplish the goal of keeping the aesthetics the same as well. We know that is important to folks. Not trying to propose a big steel bridge with concrete abutments here. We're trying to be sensitive to what's been there for years while also designing a project that is safe and reduces the maintenance need for both DPWs. Next, before we kind of turn it over to the group, Tom Holder from Wayland is just going to share some of the public emails that we've gotten for folks that haven't, aren't able to attend tonight. Great. Thank you, Mike. Again, my name is Tom Holder. I'm the Public Works Director for Wayland. And over the course of the weeks leading up to this forum, we received a handful of email remarks and comments, and I thought it would be appropriate to read through these. I know some of the folks that sent these in are here tonight and may also come up to the microphone later on, but I thought it best to read through some of these things so you have a good sense of what folks' thoughts are on it. So I'll read the name. If I have an address, I'll give that, and then I'll offer up their remarks. So starting it off, I've got Stephen Garanin, 39 Griscom Road in Sudbury. He is an avid kayaker of the river. The biggest issue that he witnesses is the high speeds in which regular vehicles and large vehicles, the large tractor trailer and 10-wheelers are speeding over the bridge. He would like both communities to consider installing speed humps or bumps on either side of the bridge to slow down traffic. Next would be Peter Viscuso from Weston. He's a Weston resident and cyclist that rides across the bridge four to five times per week. The rough, uneven wood beams of the bridge are dangerous to property and risky to the physical well-being of a cyclist. Maintaining the current uneven wood design of the aesthetic and historical value would be trading off aesthetics for safety, and that would be a big mistake. As someone who rides over the bridge frequently, I can say the current design is unsafe and a major accident is likely, even a fatality resulting from a crash on the bridge. Please make the bridge safe. Cover it with a smooth surface. Adam Scheivich, unknown address. I am an avid cyclist and ride across Sherman's Bridge about 50 times per year, often with other cyclists. By far, crossing Sherman's Bridge is the most dangerous part of those rides. The uneven planks toss our bikes around and reduce our control. It is always unnerving, but all the more so when cars are navigating the bridge at the same time. Then it is just plain scary. One of these days, the uneven planks on Sherman's Bridge are going to cause a terrible accident that could have been avoided by a smoother road surface. I appreciate that Sherman's Bridge may have historic value, but I strongly encourage Wayland to rebuild it nevertheless in a manner that prioritizes public safety. Bernie Weitzel, 33 Sherman's Bridge. The house I live in, which town records show the house was built in 1810, was the house where one of the Sherman family, who farmed the land in this area, actually lived. I have a strong interest in preserving the history and heritage of my home and the area I live in. I personally bike Sherman Bridge Road, adding myself to the hundreds who on weekends frequent our streets a few days a week. And while I'd like to see the bridge wood surface smoothed out, which I've read experts say can be done, I don't think it is a good idea to specifically pave the bridge surface. I say this simply because, given the unusable fact that a paved road will only increase the speed of all vehicles who drive Sherman Bridge and therefore not to be safe or put another way, the wood Sherman Bridge serves as a speed hump, which is a nice. Plus, I say this is a biker and a walker, which is why I also support the extension of the walkway on the north side of Sherman Bridge Road down to the river. Deborah Kruskal from 136 Lincoln Road. Ms. Kruskal talks about the historical and emotional value and the safety needs. The bridge must be amplified, not diminished. By paving the bridge as a continuation of the roads leading up to it, it loses most of its identity. There should be signage designating notating its past, the origin it was built, used by Native Americans, and ties to the Sherman family. It has a picturesque rural identity. It is integrated with the great meadows, wildlife, the scenic rivers, and consistent with our designated scenic roads. Allowing traffic to continue at higher, smoother speeds endangers the bikers, fishermen, pedestrians, bird viewers, and those simply connecting with nature. We'd like state reps to get involved with MASDOT to consider a weight and speed restriction for the bridge. Dennis Mortimer from 85 Lincoln Road. We have been living at 85 Lincoln Road in Sudbury since 1997. We are 0.4 miles from Sherman's Bridge. Our sons went to Lincoln Sudbury Regional High School and for decades used Sherman's Bridge for everything from boating, fishing, and bird watching to stargazing, eclipse watching, and sunsets. We frequently hear the revving of vehicle engines as they leave the wooden bridge and accelerate onto Lincoln Road's asphalt. I dread any alterations to Sherman's Bridge that would risk or encourage continuous speeding from both directions. On our current Sherman's Bridge vehicle travels, you can actually and safely slow down and sneak a peek at the river environment or the setting sun. I doubt that it will still be a safe option with increased speeds projected on the new surface. I'm not resistant or opposed to progress, but if we continue to ignore history and beauty for the sake of progress, we eventually lose. Please consider carefully. I hope the next generation of families living here surrounded by this natural beauty will enjoy a historically accurate Sherman's Bridge. Jan Hardenberg, unknown address. From my point of view, the problem to be solved is maintainability and environmental protection. I think we should keep the bridge as is while solving the decking problem. Glulam seems fine, but paving it seems fraught with environmental ills. There is detritus from the paving process and then the pavement deteriorates over the decades and that will go into the river. There must be other treatments for a wooden bridge. Wooden bridges used to have metal plates where the tires ran. I would put down a fiberglass rubber silicon sheet and then some sort of metal grating over that. It prevents spills, keeps the rubber sheet intact, and provides durability. Next is Ellen Freeman Roth from Weston. In theory, Sherman's Bridge, an older structure on a country road, is an asset. In reality, Sherman's Bridge is a danger. For cyclists, crossing Sherman's Bridge is not just unpleasant, it's one of the worst and sometimes scariest parts of any ride, especially when vehicles are nearby and we're trying to ride without being thrown off the bike or getting a flat tire. We've tried riding slowly, we've tried riding quickly, but there's no remedy for the bone-jarring equipment eating experience. I've learned that being a steward of the land, while considering people's safety and needs, can require compromise and creativity. I hope the towns will improve the bridge for the sake of all who travel across it and for the environment. Next is Mark Goldberg, unknown address. I am an avid cyclist and ride across Sherman's Bridge two to three times per week in the early morning. The bridge is, and for some time has been, extremely dangerous. The forces caused by bumping across the bridge cause damage and wear and tear, particularly to carbon bicycle wheels and frames. Numerous riders in our group have had cracked carbon components from crossing the bridge. This is both an expense and a safety issue. In order to try and find the smoothest path across the bridge, cyclists typically veer across the bridge, which creates a safety issue for cyclists and drivers. It is also common for cars to accelerate past bicycles as they try to make it across. Sherman's Bridge remains one of the most treacherous passes on the local roads. Unfortunately, it is virtually unavoidable for certain routes. This section of roadway is an accident waiting to happen. I hope it does not take a serious crash or worse to do the right thing and make this segment of road safe for all. Bob Hockett, unknown address. The rough timber planks are very dangerous. I have seen people break spokes and even wheels and worse, fall hard when hitting this ridiculous bridge. Whatever you do, people will still ride it as it is a key biking route. To maintain character, you could put in smoother wood planks. If speed is still an issue, put in a speed hump on each side. Please don't wait until someone has a fatal accident to fix this bridge. And then we have Doug Stotts. Presented documentation and letters talking about the historical components of the bridge. Objects to the asphalt wearing surface and steel guardrails. Open to alternative wearing surfaces that can be made to look like wood and modified steel guardrails designed or treated to blend better with the environment. Suggests adding a second walkway on the opposite side of the road that could be funded by CPA funds. Inclusion of bike lanes or following a complete street's principles on length of Sherman's bridge, if feasible. Also proposed a traffic calming measure, such as painting the pavement at both ends of the bridge, adding slow on the pavement approach. There used to be a two and a half ton weight limit sign that has since been removed. Next is Mel Stolar. Oh, by the way, Doug Stotts is a Sherman Road, Sherman Bridge Road resident. Mel Stolar, unknown address. I cycle with Mark Goldberg, who shared his recent comments with you about fixing the bridge for safety for all of us who depend on it for commutes and social rides. Please include me as a strong supporter for the safety improvements. Each and every time I ride over it, I worry about my safety and the damage that may be done to my frame and wheels. And then lastly, we have Tom Largy, who's a member of the Wayland Surface Water Quality Committee and is a Wayland resident. The documents don't address at all the issue of public access to the Sudbury River, since there is a current boat launch at Sherman's bridge heavily used by both car top and trailered boats. There is no mention of whether the launch will be removed or made less usable. For over 50 years, I've used the Sherman Bridge launch myself for both types of boats, including several times a summer. When the Pelham Island Road Bridge was replaced a number of years ago, what was lost was an informal car top boat area, which made it more difficult to reach the river upstream. On the other hand, the Route 20 bridge repair did include an upgrade of the launch area. There is also an informal launch site on the United States Fish and Wildlife property off of Water Row. If the Sherman's Bridge launch site went away, it would be a disastrous blow to public access to the Sudbury River. One out of three launch sites on the river would be lost. The next possible launch area is several miles downstream in Lincoln. That launch area has a very long carry to it, dug trench to the river. Sometimes at my age at 85, I couldn't do this. I have observed that there are frequently several vehicles at one time parked at Sherman's Bridge, especially during the warmer months, meaning that there might be a dozen or more uses of the area in one day. Although recreational boaters who rely on launching at one area and taking out Sherman's Bridge would lose that capability. I've done the same thing myself since I row a John boat and it's a long row back upstream. I have observed United States Fish and Wildlife launching a trailer boat at Sherman's Bridge as well. There is also the social issue of the public tending not to pay much attention to a conservation and recreational asset like the Sudbury River that they can't use and get access to. So that concludes what we received via email and some phone calls from residents as we were preparing for the forum. So at this point in time, I mean, these are a matter of record for the forum, but we're now encouraging folks who are attending tonight to, if you've got comments, remarks, questions, feel free to kind of arrange yourself. As Nicole had said earlier, step up to the microphone. So those that are watching right now at home or will be watching a recorded portion of the meeting will be able to hear you. So it looks like this gentleman and I guess I can call on people as you raise your hand if that makes things a bit more organized. Sir? I'm Tom Sciacca and I'm Wayland's representative to the River Stewardship Council. I have been for 25 years. Here's my elevator speech. In 1999, 29 miles of the Sudbury Aspen Concord Rivers were designated as wild and scenic by Act of Congress, signed into law by President Bill Clinton under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act of 1968. They were recognized for five outstandingly remarkable values which the River Council, which is a volunteer arm of the National Park Service, is protecting. And we might have regulatory authority over this project, by the way. Our National Park Service staff person prior to the shutdown chatted with us about this and we might have Section 7 authority over it. There are two outstandingly remarkable values that appear relevant to this project. One is scenery and the other is history. Scenery is a value common to most or all wild and scenic rivers. History is fairly unusual, but we have a very historic river and the bridge clearly represents both of those values. So, I'm interested to see the details. First reaction is it's hard to see how asphalt is consistent with a scenic historic structure. The treatment of the steel is interesting. Again, first reaction was it's not, again, appropriate for a wild and scenic structure. But you're offering to paint it to blend in? Well, I'd like to hear more about that, especially how long the paint will last and how it will be maintained. And then I'd like to get some pictures of it so we can run it by the river council. And I'm interested in hearing the reactions of others. Thanks. Another Tom. I'm Tom Largy from Wayland. We'll be here 54 years this coming November. My estimate is I've been on the Sudbury River way over 100 times. I don't watch birds. I catch fish. So, I've got a Sudbury River album here. I showed several people. Lots of fish. Anybody who's interested can ask to see them. But, anyway, you know, I was out to Washington State in June on a fishing trip out to Montana a couple of years ago on a fishing trip up Maine, New Hampshire. And a consistent problem is public access on things like rivers, ponds, lakes. And they just seem to get forgotten or pushed away. Part of the problem is that the public access is frequently just kind of there. It's maybe public land. It may be private land. It's just awfully hard to say. But the land is frequently not available. Sometimes when access is put in, things get much more difficult. As an example, I might also fish Weldon Pond and find that it's closed in November when the water's cold and the trout are biting. So, anyway, in regards to Sherman Bridge, my message is please at least conserve what's there and, if possible, enhance it for boating access. My name is Tom Cooper. I live at 66 Sherman Bridge Road. And I would describe that as within hearing distance of the bridge. Because when people visit us and the doors open in the summer, they go, what's that noise? Every time a car goes over. So, I think noise is the biggest issue. I personally have. I see the TEC plan would certainly reduce it. As to whether it should be asphalt or some other material, I don't have a strong view. But as long as it reduces the noise. Another question I have is, TEC was involved just a few years ago when there was a brief consideration of substantial repairs to the bridge and replacing the surface. And at that time, that design would have completely closed access to the sidewalk because of railings that were being proposed. And I can't tell from that photo that was showed earlier whether there's still access to the sidewalk. To me, that would be essential. Sure. This rendering? Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. So, fantastic point. Answer it with the benefit of the railing at the curb line would help protect folks on the walkway sidewalk. And what we'd look into making sure that folks can still get to that without having to crawl over the bridge rail would be working on a path that would get from the north side of the wayland approach from the boat ramp that would get you onto the walkway. Another question I had about the design was, this shows a large railing between the sidewalk surface and the road surface. Today, there is none. There hasn't been as long as I've lived there, which has been since around 2010 or 2000. And I'm not sure why it's necessary. A lot of people, you know, will step off of there and walk along the road surface and walk to the other side and look over the other railing. So, I would question why there needs to be a railing there at all. One of the things I wonder is, is there data, has someone gathered data about whether there have been injuries to pedestrians caused by cars on the bridge? And whether anyone's investigated, to what extent a railing like that would have prevented it. Several people have talked about protecting pedestrians, that that's the purpose of the railing. But I don't know if there's really a hazard because I'm not aware of anyone ever getting injured because of a contact between an automobile and a pedestrian who is using the sidewalk. Several people have mentioned speed. I agree, speed is a big problem because people go way too fast over the bridge. Whatever's done, there really needs to be ways of preventing cars from going too fast. One question I have also is, is there any data about the users, the drivers that use the bridge? How many of them either live in Sudbury or live in Lincoln and go from Lincoln to Lincoln-Sudbury High School? I'm just wondering about those percentages. I see the cost is proposed to be borne equally between the two towns. Although my suspicion is Sudbury gets way more benefit out of the presence of a bridge there. And the last point, maybe the most important one, is that this bridge has two different names. It's called Sherman Bridge, and it's called Sherman's Bridge. And I wish we could conform those, and I have a preference. I think Sherman Bridge is a better choice. So I'm not sure how we're going to resolve that. It might be the most difficult issue. Sure. Thank you. A bunch of points. The one that I'll touch on the most is, I'm not sure about data of incidents with cars and pedestrians. But as an engineer, if we're doing any type of maintenance, we need to design things that are compliant. And in order to try to maintain the timber aesthetic of the railing, the crash-tested timber railing system that I can find that's been, that is crash-tested and approved, utilizes the glulam deck. And that glulam deck would end more or less at the curb line, and that's where the location of that timber railing would have to be right above it. So it's just where the glulam is, is where the railing would have to go as well, which is why it would go at the curb line. Similarly, if the curb is mountable by cars, we view that as a potential safety risk. So kind of finding the benefit of utilizing a crash-tested system on the bridge that also would now give a dedicated pedestrian space on the structure. I'm not sure about the differentiation of traffic going east or west on the structure. We have some traffic counts that we can look through and get a better answer for you on that as well. Sure. Yeah, I think it would be very difficult to make a determination as to, you know, who's using the bridge, whether they're Wayland, Sudbury residents. Having performed a bunch of bridge projects throughout my career, I think we can probably safely say that, you know, both towns have an equal benefit to having the bridge there. You know, so I think having an equal share of the costs is a practical and proper thing to do. Hi. Henry White, 56 Lincoln Road in Sudbury and an abutter to the bridge. I can't hear you. Oh, sorry. Henry White. Henry White, 56 Lincoln Road in Sudbury and an abutter. First, I'd like to hear a little bit about if you've looked at alternatives to the asphalt surfacing. I understand the glulam, but whether, in fact, whether they're manufactured wood, because there are such a broad variety now available, that could keep potentially a wood surface to protect the glulams rather than using asphalt. Second, I'd want to hear a little bit more about the walkways and their width and what are your materials you're going to be using on the guard, the bannisters, because it's hard to tell from whether that's going to continue to be wood or what form of wood. It would continue to stay wood. Oh. And a similar design to what's... Correct. Yeah. Some slight differences to bring it to current standards, but yes. And I just want to support the discussion about the traffic and traffic speed on the bridge, you know, because it's already... I think it does slow people down, and so it's serving as an informal speed bump, but I think... And that's a general issue on Sherman Bridge and Lincoln Road in both directions. Sherman Bridge does not have... I mean, I think there's a much more dangerous place for bicycles, which is there's a section that is barely wide enough for two cars as you go up the hill toward Wayland. And so I think there needs to be a way to make sure that car speeds are reduced across the whole section, you know, whether it's a series of speed bumps like Gleason Lane or some variety to at least make sure that we're accommodating everybody. And finally, I just wanted to ascertain whether the walkway is going to be handicapped accessible so that people from the boat launch area can park their car and get on the walkway, because right now it isn't. Thank you. Sure. A few things there. Intent would be to make everything ADA accessible. And there'd be a slight reduction in width on that sidewalk versus what's out there today with the kind of wider cross-tested rail for vehicles, but would still be ADA compliant width-wise. You mentioned speed, and I'm not a traffic expert or speed expert, but I have Kevin Dandrade from TEC as well that kind of here to help support and kind of speak to some of the speed questions. Some of the speed questions that you have. So I'll bring Kev up. Thanks. Thanks, Mike. Welcome, everyone. It's great to see a large crowd. So my focus area is traffic engineering. So I've worked, had the benefit of working in the town of Weyland and more recently in the town of Sudbury for the past 20 years. Different roads, different parts of town. What we see based on data that we've collected, and it's also been complemented by what the Weyland PD has put out there, is that there is speeding in different sections of Sherman Bridge Road and Lincoln Road. With the data points that we collected on two different points, one was during summer season, one was during the later fall, I believe it was November. We see very consistent traffic volumes, the number of cars that pass over the bridge. It's right around 1,900 vehicles per day. You see a spike in the morning commuter hours. You see another spike but lower in the afternoon and early evening with whether it might be related to school dismissal periods for Lincoln Sudbury High School or the early evening commuter hour. As you probably have all experienced, it has a lot to do with whatever's going on in 117 or 27 or 20. But what we've seen is it's pretty consistent for the number of cars. In fact, as far as some of the data points, overall on an average day, as of November 12th of 24, so just about a year ago, it was 1,987 vehicles over the course of the day, 1,253 that were going northeast towards Weyland, and 734 that were heading towards Sudbury. You know, what I've seen as I've been working in the towns is that any congestion on 117 or 27 and the fact that most of us are using this device to try to get from A to B, that can influence travel trends. During the commuter hours or even off peak, and we've spent some time out there not just looking at data but experiencing it. I was out there again last week. There are speed characteristics that vary depending on the point of each roadway. For better or worse, on either side of the bridge, there are these fairly aggressive horizontal curves in the road that are rated for about 30 miles per hour. The data point that we collected shows that it's between 29 and 31, so it matches pretty well with that immediately adjacent to the bridge. Once you get further away from the bridge and you get on some of those straightaways on either side, Weyland or Sudbury, those volumes pick up. There was that somewhat recently introduced always stop Sherman's bridge in Oxborough, but even in between those points, cars can accelerate because it's a little bit more comfortable on the straightaways. But with the curves, that's the biggest thing that manages those speeds today. And yes, they may be at times going too fast over the bridge. But with the rehabilitation of the bridge with either a smoother wood surface or an asphalt surface, either case, it would be smoother. And the gentleman that was complaining about noise, it should be quieter as well. But there are different surface characteristics. But once they're smooth, they're going to have very similar characteristics. But because they're limited by the horizontal curves on either side, that's really the biggest thing that influences kind of the moderating of the speeds of the bridge that it's with whatever is done here, it's not going to go much different higher or lower. But what I will say, and it's important to see this image, that with the crash tested barrier, and I think Mike said it well, whenever the DPWs or we as engineers have to look at things, we have to make sure it's safe for the public good. The motorists that are using it, the bikers, the walkers. So things like crash tested rail are very important to keep somebody from going off the bridge. So the primary reason of something like that is keeping motor vehicles on the road, on the bridge. But the other benefit of that, as Michael mentioned, is that it now creates that protected barrier that has a hopefully safer experience for those that are fishing or bird washing or whatever they're doing on the backside. And when I was out there last week, I experienced a couple of vehicles that went by at a higher rate of speed. But because I'm not separated by a rail, even though you're in a different space and you're up about six inches, it's still not comfortable. Right. So if you had a barrier like that, it's going to improve that experience as a non motorized user, but also visually that being on the edge of the road is going to have a constricting factor for the roadway itself. So it's going to visually feel tighter, which should moderate speed slightly. It's not something that whether you visually constrict it or you add roadway striping, it might mean a couple miles per hour. But no matter what we do for the surface, I expect the speed characteristics to be similar. So we've got some data points to talk to speed, to talk to volume of traffic. They're all very consistent in this area. And one of the folks out here had done a deeper dive on some of that for the distribution of traffic over the day. And I feel like we should hire him as a traffic engineer because it was very thorough, very accurate. But what it talks to is that there's different trends over the course of the day. I'm confident that after the rehabilitation, it is going to make it safer, which is our primary goal. And it is going to make it easier to maintain. But as that other benefit of keeping the boat access open, making sure that we don't compromise those areas that people use for parking and or backing up their boat ramp, the boat trailers. But having an experience that keeps the aesthetic but makes it safer for those to be able to watch and observe or fish with some level of increased comfort is one of those extra benefits of the project. Thank you. I just wanted to take a moment to speak to two points that the previous speaker had asked about. We've been working very closely with MassDOT relative to this project, the design, the proposal, and they strongly support and encourage and just about requiring that we put a wearing surface over the glue lamp. It's been said by them that the expected life without the asphalt would be about 20 years. The expected life with asphalt would be 40. So, in essence, we're doubling the life expectancy of this project. And for those that want to preserve the historic nature of the bridge, by having that 40-year lifespan, it means that you don't have to come back in 20 years and have discussions on how the bridge is going to look. It'll look the way we're going to do it in 2026 for 40 years. It was also asked, have we considered other alternatives to asphalt? And one thing that we are researching, and it looks promising, I've spoken about it before, is imprint technology. I used it successfully in Framingham, used it successfully in Wayland. We can actually use an imprint technology whereby the asphalt actually looks like wooden timber. We have a rendering in the back of the room, so I would encourage folks. I think it's the bottom photograph of the board on the right that shows what that would likely look like. We have a vendor that works with us in Wayland currently that is very supportive, thinks it's quite likely that we could do something similar to what you see there. And it would help detract from what I call the runway look to a paving operation. Hi, I'm Elisa. I live on Sherman's Bridge Road, probably the section that sees the greatest speed. And in fact, in 2023, there was a traffic study done too, over two periods of time. And one of them was based, I guess they were measuring right from my house. And 95% of people went above the speed limit. And the speed limit is currently 25 miles an hour on a narrow road with no sidewalks whatsoever, often hillsides or trees right at the road. So, really bad place for bicyclists. Just, I'm sure they've experienced really hard for pedestrians. And even hard for me, you know, I'm a little scared when I go out to get my mail. Because I'm in the fastest zone, you know. And I see people going, well, first of all, I'm like 10 houses back from Concord Road, 126. And during rush hour, traffic is backed up past my house. That's how bad it is. Because people are cutting through, instead of using 117 or 20, via this bridge. Now, oops. Phone call. Sorry about that. Where was I? Okay. Oh, I lost my... Okay. Anyway. So, speed is a problem in that area in general. It's 25 mile an hour without speed bumps, does nothing. This is a very rural area, a rural feel area, residential only. Narrow streets, no sidewalks. And, you know, and it's a rural historic kind of bridge. I mean, it's very historic, although it was rebuilt. But it was rebuilt in a way that had to accommodate larger cars, because it's a bridge for cars. And, but it looks like a, you know, New England wooden bridge. And there was a gentleman, let me see if I can find this folder. Yeah, here it is. So, there was a gentleman in Waltham from the Board of Public Works who commented and raised his concern about the absence of a weight limit sign on Sherman Bridge. And the BOPW agreed that Lewis should confer with the Board of Selectmen since signage is their responsibility as traffic commissioners. There should be a weight limit on a bridge like this. We are getting huge trucks with trailers coming over a scenic, you know, in a scenic area. This is not a highway. You know, this is a scenic area, all residential. And people are using this bridge as if it were a truck route, which it is not. It is not. I just wonder if five years ago they put those signs up, how much less damage there would be now. Or even a sign prohibiting trucks with trailers or over a certain weight. And occasionally have police out there checking and, you know, issuing tickets. And the same on, on my road. If they found that people are, on average, going 40 miles an hour on a 25 mile an hour road, that's narrower than most roads, and doesn't have space on either side for a pedestrian to get out of the way for most of the road, why didn't they lower the speed limit? Or why didn't they have speed bumps put in? Why, you know, why was nothing done? So getting back to the bridge, one of the emails that you referred to from Doug Stoltz actually had a very large 61-page attachment. And at the end of that attachment, he mentions that there's information from the guidelines for design, installation, and maintenance of a waterproof-wearing surface for timber bridge decks. From the University of Wisconsin Forest Products Laboratory from 2001. And they mentioned that, specifically, because of the different, yeah, the different layers, the different substance that these things are. The wood and the asphalt. And what is this stuff on the top here? Is it that asphalt? You just have another name for it, yeah. They don't necessarily stick together. And they, because asphalt and wood behave differently. So the wood can breathe, and it can expand and contract, and that can affect the asphalt, particularly in places where they're connected. And so you're gonna have wear and tear in this New England weather. So you're not gonna be seeing a bridge that's not gonna need repairs for the next 40 years. You're gonna need, see a bridge that needs regular, consistent repairs, you know, constantly. And you're gonna have more people speeding over that bridge. They're already speeding. And they're speeding on a rough road. The nice thing about a wooden bridge is you have to slow down. And because people slow down, and it's historic, then they're not gonna go flying off, and it's not that long. They're not gonna go flying off and having an accident and needing to have metal up there for 250, 400 years, 300 years. Incredibly long number of years. There's been a bridge there. And I've never heard of any vehicle crashing off the side. Granted, I haven't read 300 years of history. Maybe there was a horse and carriage at some point. But certainly since it was built, they didn't rebuild any railings, so no car went through that. Personally, I like to go down there and meet my friend from Sudbury and look at the Northern Lights. Just bring my friends down to, you know, from my house, walk down risking our lives on that road to see the beauty that's there, the nature that's there. This is like a nature preserve. It's a, it's a scenic area. It's not a commuter's road. So I don't see any reason to cater to people who are avoiding highways by using this to commute on. Which you know they're doing because you're not getting the same number of cars going back in the evening. They're all avoiding the, you know, the truck route of 117 and 20 by cutting through the neighborhood. And they're cutting through a very quiet neighborhood with teeny streets. And so I don't, I don't think that, it says particularly about the problems with wood and asphalt together. Routine maintenance needs to be performed if you're going to ensure the integrity of the asphalt wearing surface and its protective qualities. As with asphalt surface roads, distress will occur with time as a result of vehicle loadings and environmental effects. So again, a weight limit is really important. And also, and there was a suggestion that maybe you can make it a little less wearing if we replace the wood with native wood that is diagonal. So that actually each vehicle is not putting full weight on one beam with more than one tire at a time because it'll go at different times across it. So there are other ways to do this. I don't know what MassDOT's deal is with coming and saying you got to do this now. We'll offer this, you know, material. But they're also trying to get a jet airport opened up in Bedford. And they're behind that. So maybe it's a way of them having, you know, trying to get influence. But we should not feel rushed to do this. We should feel rushed to put up a weight limit and some speed signs. And nobody has ever, as I know, have been hit on a bicycle or a pedestrian on this road. People can walk their bicycles across this beautiful scenic road. And they want to make the walkway narrower. The pathway that you can walk on, the sidewalk, they want to go from four to three feet. Ma'am, thank you very much for your comment. Thank you for all that. A couple of things, not to omit any things, but just a couple of things I wrote down. First of which, the question about asphalt quality on top of timber. Have the same references. And the asphalt is very highly suggested to help protect the glulam. Have reached out to MassDOT District 3, which is the district that both Whale and Sudbury are in. Asked for example projects where asphalt is used on timber. And have a bridge inspection report from a bridge in South Borough. Where very similar structure type. Timber deck. Asphalt on top. Built in 2009. And there's been no maintenance required. The asphalt's in great shape. The deck condition on the inspection report's rated an eight. Which, as a bridge engineer, brand new structures barely get eights. So that's like incredibly great on a zero to nine scale. So it's been very successful in other places nearby. At least a super structure replacement. So new deck. New wearing surface in 2009. I'm not sure about the other elements. So. I don't believe so. It's over a railroad. Over a railroad. So. Yeah. Over a railroad. Sorry. Very. I don't have all that exact data. It's a different project. But. Sure. Ma'am, can you go? Would you like me to bring it too so that the people at home can hear your comments or questions? Okay. Thank you. Sure. And just to touch on speed quickly. I understand some issues potentially away from the bridge. Just to kind of reiterate what Kev would say. Is at the bridge crossing itself, kind of the curves coming into it would dictate speed over the structure. And other things beyond the bridge crossing would kind of be outside of the purview of this project. So. Sure. Sorry. Same deal with it. Yeah. I'm sorry to do this. If you want, I can bring the mics over to you. But we have people viewing at home. So it's helpful for them if you either walk to the mic or raise your hand. I'll bring a mic to you. Thank you. Thanks. Steve Miro, Red Bond Road in Weyland. I live less than a mile from the bridge. And I've lived in Weyland since 1981. I have several comments. Note that both Shermans Bridge Road and Lincoln Road are both scenic roads in their respective towns. And I think changing the bridge to look like this is kind of violating the spirit, if not the letter, of the scenic roads bylaws. So I would strongly, I would suggest, in my opinion, I'm for keeping the bridge in its current form. And I think that's partially what makes Weyland, Weyland, and Sudbury, Sudbury, some of the historic features of the towns. It's for the same reasons why we still have covered bridges in New England. Or for that matter, the USS Constitution. No one's keeping that in decent shape because of the cost benefits. It's partly the history. I think one of the things that would help the bridge a lot, and both safety and longevity, would be controlling the speeds to 15 miles per hour. Which could be done via signs and possibly speed bumps on both sides of the bridge. It would make it safer for the cars, bicyclists, and pedestrians. And I would think it would. I suspect that some of the wear and tear on the bridge decking is because of the excess speeds. Which I've seen cars over there a lot that I think they're going over 40 miles per hour quite frequently. I know there have been a lot of comments from bicyclists about the bridge. And this is not going to win me too many friends. But, well, I used to be an avid bicyclist. I biked across the United States twice, so I guess I would fit in that category. And I've been over the bridge hundreds of times. And I've walked my bike over the bridge many times as well. There's a walkway there. And it's not the most dangerous spot on Lincoln Road or Sherman's Bridge Road. So I would vote for just walk your bike if you're worried about the safety on it. But having a lower speed would make it safer also. I would also like to ask about, wouldn't, since it's not a full rebuild, what's the total weight of the asphalt? Because wouldn't that put more load on the substructure of the bridge? It would seem like that might cause more, you might need more repairs underneath the bridge in the future with the weight of the asphalt. 34 tons? Okay. I don't want to interrupt you, but sometimes we lose the amount of questions I want to address some as we go. The weight one I can speak to roughly would add about 1.5 tons per pile. And we estimate from the existing bridge plans, boring logs, that capacity per pile is around 40 tons. So it's a fairly negligible increase in overall weight. There's currently no signs of settlement in those piles. So structurally we feel that it's a, while, yes, there is an increase in overall dead load on the structure, it's negligible from a structural point of view. What would be the impact if the speed was lowered to 15 miles per hour and it was, Bill, how would that, can you speak to how that would impact the longevity on the bridge? I can't speak to it. It wouldn't be on TEC to enforce speed limits, so I don't want to promise anything on that front. I'm not sure that the impacts of reduced speed and longevity. I can speak to the maintenance struggles that both DVWs go through in replacing these decking boards. And just the general upkeep and maintenance is just not very sustainable from the DPW point of view out there. Okay, because we've, I mean, the bridge has been there for 1743. So obviously there weren't cars then, but it's, somehow they've found a way to manage it over all these years. Sure. Okay. One last point I would like to make is, with the added railing next to the walkway and decreasing the walkway width by a foot, if you go there in the summer, you'll often see people fishing over the bridge. There'll be bicyclists leaning their bikes, you know, stopping to look out over the river, and their bikes are leaned against the outer railing of the bridge. I think it'll feel very hemmed in if just going from five feet to four feet with the addition of the railing as well, especially if you're looking across the river to the south side. And if you have people that are crossing the bridge, as well as people that are loitering on the bridge to, you know, to sightsee or birdwatch or whatever, it will just have kind of a hemmed in feeling, I think. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. So we really appreciate the feedback that we're receiving, and it's getting, we only had the room for so long, so I just want to ask if you could keep your questions kind of brief, and we will get back to the questions. And if you have comments, we definitely appreciate it, and we want to hear from you. So please. I'm Rebecca Devine. I'm at Hereford Road, which, for those of you that don't know, is at the end of Alpine Road. It's a family property. It's been in my family since 1944, so I've been here my entire life. My father and my family has grown up on the bridge, on the river, so we have a long history. I appreciate the nature of the wood structure. That being said, I do not appreciate the sound of the bridge. It comes right up the river to my house. It is not pleasant. People that think it is, I'm sorry. It's people work in my yard and go, what is that noise? The maintenance has been atrocious since this bridge was built back in 1991, when it was shut down for two years that I couldn't get to see my grandmother for. We all said, what are we doing with the wood structure? I appreciate the technology's advanced. I am for this plan, mostly because we as a town cannot afford to take out another project and not get assistance from the state. Our funding in Wayland is out of control. We have massive bills coming due for the PFAS and the MWRA connection, the lead pipe removal, paying for people that we've hired and fired in this town. Our budget cannot afford to pass up this opportunity to have MassDOT take on some of this. I think your rendering with the impression of the wood on the bridge is a great adjustment to try to keep people happy. The structure is going to stay the same from the river. It's going to look the same. As a note, this is not a historical bridge. The original bridge did not have a walkway for pedestrians. So the fact that we have one now is a difference. You have to progress. I think the safety railing will help slow down people because, again, you're going to have it next to your mirror. I understand that the people drive way too fast on the road. I've been there forever. You're not going to fix that by keeping the bridge falling apart. You have to do something else, whether we get the police department involved and we ask for more stuff. The stop sign has certainly helped, but you can't keep the bridge falling apart to try to slow people down. And please do not pass up the opportunity of the funds from MassDOT. It is too important for the town right now. Thank you. Thanks. Hi. I'm Susan Kaufman. I'm at 66 Sherman Bridge Road. I'm one of the three families that are closest to Sherman Bridge. I see my neighbors that are next to me here also. I disagree with my husband. I don't mind the noise of the bridge at all. And that's how it goes. For everybody who hates it, there's someone who loves it. One day there was a knock on my door, and it was a truck driver. And he was driving a gigantic 38 wheel, whatever those very big things are called. Sure. And he said, what is the weight limit on the bridge? And I said, I have no idea. He said, well, where is the sign? I'll go read it. Well, there is no sign. And since I moved there, since we built our house in 2001, there hasn't been a sign. And he, I offered to have him call Town Hall and ask them or the police, but he instead backed his 900 wheel vehicle backwards up Sherman Bridge Road around the curb and off. A weight limit would be helpful. A small weight limit would be very helpful. I have a concern based on something you said. You commented that the reason why we have to have the guardrail is when you redesign something, you have to meet, you have to comply. You have to meet compliance standards. The last time, sometime I think in the 90s, I think, or the mid 200s, 2000s, the last time people were talking in Wayland about redoing the bridge, we were told that the bridge needed to be wider because it didn't meet current Massachusetts standards. We were told that by the DPW director at the time. And we were told that in order to, it had to be 30 feet wide. It had to be steel. And because of that, we would have to take the curves out of Sherman Bridge and whatever the road on the other side, Sudbury Road. We'd have to take those curves out. Lincoln Road. Lincoln. Yeah. I'm on the Sherman Bridge side. So I'm worried that if you are talking about needing to be in compliance, is that a sub-Rosa way of saying that the rest of Sherman Bridge and the rest of Lincoln Road are going to be changed, are going to be widened, are going to be straightened, are going to be things that I don't think any of us really want. If you're interested in the bridge, the bridge's evolution. Someone said, oh, this isn't the bridge that was built way back then. That's true. It is not the bridge that was built back in 1743. If you want to see that bridge, go underneath Sherman Bridge. Go down the boat ramp and go underneath where the abutment is. And you can see in low water times, pilings from several previous reconstructions of that bridge. All the way back to a place near the Sudbury side, where you can see what look like tree limbs, except they're very evenly spaced here and here, the width of a horse and rider. And beyond that, there's another one that was probably the width of a carriage. And beyond that, there are some other pilings, cutoffs. But you can see them when the water is low enough, lined up neatly. And now the current pilings. The history of that bridge is underneath it. And the more we make the top not look historic, the more we lose that history. Sure. I don't want to cut you off. I just see some folks behind you and I'm... Yes, as I stood and waited. But lucky for you, that was it. Sure. The question I heard or point I'd just like to address, I... There's no intention to widen the approach roads, straighten them out. The bridge preservation project is what we're trying to look at and help maintain the bridge on behalf of both towns. So, thanks. Hello. Can you hear me? I can. Good. First time. I just wanted to address some of the comments that were made about cycling safety on the bridge. To me, this looks much more frightening from a cyclist's point of view. I live on Sherman's Bridge Road, not too far from the river. And I bicycle over the bridge all the time in the summer and the spring. And it's... I don't... I heard a plethora of comments about how dangerous it was to bicycle over that bridge, which I totally don't understand. I mean, slow down a little. Look where you're going. It's really not dangerous. I don't know what kind of bicycles these people are using that will fall apart from driving over Sherman's Bridge. But it's like, in that case, walk your bike over the bridge. It's a very short bridge. But in this case, it looks like you'd be bicycling crowded up against a rail with cars going by on a nice, smooth asphalt surface. This looks like a sluice. You know, it looks like, wow, what a great place to speed your car. And I also, in terms of cycling safety, I'm concerned about the fact that, like, you're depending on the dangerous curves and hills on either side of the bridge to mitigate the speed. When you're cycling, like, you might be safe on that bridge or walking. I walk on that road, too, very often. I live right there, and it's where I can walk in both directions on Sherman's Bridge. It's very narrow, and there's no place. The size of the road cried right up. There's no sidewalk. And everywhere else on Sherman's Bridge Road and Lincoln Road, it's quite dangerous to walk around some of the curves or to bicycle. And yet, only on the bridge cars can speed by. I mean, I think if you're depending on curves around the bridge to be safe. Like, anyone who's walking or bicycling or driving on that road, after they go over the bridge, they're on the dangerous parts that are mitigating speed. And I just don't see the advantage of making a narrow, smooth way where cars can speed down the road. I can hear the sound of the bridge rumbling, too, from my house, and it doesn't bother me either. I know that some people are very disturbed by it. In some ways, when you're walking or bicycling, it lets you know when someone's coming or going. You can hear it from a distance when you're on those blind curves. And the other question I had about the water quality, which I think is very important. It doesn't sound like, from some of the data that was distributed on the information packets, it doesn't sound like it's a massive impact on the river water quality anyway. But having an asphalt surface does seem like it's going to be loaded with salt, as the bridge probably is, too. But when it crumbles and falls apart and when the water comes up over the bridge, it definitely seems like it's going to impact water quality more adversely than some other possibilities. I think some kind of surface or new, I'm not opposed to progress and new substances, if there are some other things than glulam with asphalt or painted, you know. I think making it look like wood and still have it be poisonous asphalt doesn't really help the water quality issue. And I just had one other question too, is like, is it true that asphalt is really that more durable than wood? Because since I've been living on Sherman's Bridge Road, it's been paved a couple of times. And, you know, within a year, it's full of potholes and crumpled asphalt. And my house has potholes. I can hear the house shaking every time trucks go by. And by the way, semis do go over that bridge quite often. I've seen them rumbling over that bridge. And I also wonder, like, if there's damage on the bridge, maybe that's why. But I'm wondering, is the asphalt really not going to need maintenance as often as the wood? Because it does on the asphalt part of the road. It does on the road, regular road surface. So it probably went on the bridge too. And I'll end it here. Okay. Thank you. To speak to the last one, I think it'd be viewed as a asphalt to help protect the investment of the glulam deck, the work that we do down on the substructure level, just to help protect all those timber elements and just help better serve those structural features is really the intent. So please don't. Thank you. I thought I just might take a moment to address one of the last questions the previous speaker asked about environmental impacts to having a wood deck versus having an asphalt deck. We have been working with both the Wayland and the Sudbury Conservation Commission, both of the agents, and which we will be filing a notice of intent with each of the communities as part of this project. And they are both very supportive and encouraged with the proposal that we have and the fact that it will prevent water from cascading down from vehicles through the wood into the river. There's a system where that water will be conveyed. It'll be pre-treated with catch basins, with best management practice included in it, with rip-wrap discharge down some outfalls. So I wanted to let folks know that we have been looking at this and we have both of the Conservation Commission's support with the proposal that you see before you tonight. Hi, my name's Jim Corbett. I'm from 72 Sherman Bridge Road. I've lived there for 30 years. If you could speak a little closer. The bridge has been underwater twice since I've lived on Sherman Bridge Road. That's one thing I'm worried about, how it would affect this. The other thing is, since I've lived there, the crest of the bridge has gone down. Both ends have picked up on it. So what's to say if you put all this over, the old foundation, that's not going to keep on going. When it's cold out, it freezes because there's nothing underneath to protect it. What's going to protect vehicles from going over the ice and going over the bridge? I just, I would like to see it go back to its original. But with one exception, one solid beam going across the roadway, as opposed to three or four. Because that's where all the problems are right now. They keep on piecing little sections in. And the weak spots, the cars and trucks go over them and they increase it. If you did one solid beam going across, had it milled, I think the bridge will last a lot longer and be a lot safer for the bicyclists too. Thanks. Good evening. Roy McDowell, 96 Lincoln Lane. My wife and I have lived in Lincoln Lane for five years in Sudbury and 45 years on the other side of the bridge in Wayland. So we've been traveling this bridge for 50 years now. I'm a real estate developer, so I understand change. A little comment if you don't mind. We do a lot of renderings to sell our projects to communities and neighbors. This rendering is doing you a disservice. Get rid of that orange. Make it brown. Make it look friendly. Make it look earthy tone. It just looks horrible. It looks like a pumpkin. So that being said, I think if you change that will help you a lot. When you look at the galvanized metal that you want to paint, I would suggest you use color galf. It'll last a long, long time. Paint five years. You'll be out there scraping and repainting it. Would I love to see a wooden bridge? I would. But again, I'm in the development business. I understand change. If it's inevitable, you're going to change it. And it's inevitable it's going to be asphalt if that's really true. I assume this heavy gauge structure is because you're trying to meet mass dot standards. I think the color would be very important. Have you looked at cantilevering the sidewalk out of foot to get another foot on the sidewalk? I don't think that would be too difficult. It adds some structural components, but I think it's very doable. Because they're right. If it's five feet. Now, I mean, four feet wouldn't even meet ADA compliance. So you need to look at that. Wheelchairs, et cetera. I love the idea of stamping asphalt if you can do asphalt. We do that a lot on our projects. And it just changes the texture and the character. I think that'd be very helpful. The biggest concern I have if you're going to do this project, I've seen many projects, bridge projects, that take twice as long, sometimes three times as long as they project. And part of the problem is getting the materials in a timely fashion. If you're going to do this, I would highly suggest you not only procure all the things, but have them ready on time delivery, sitting somewhere in a yard, a warehouse, wherever, so we don't hear, well, we're waiting for this, we're waiting for that. It'll be another three months. It'll be another six months. Gee, they ran out of stock. You hear this all the time. And I think people would feel much more comfortable, if you're going to do it, to know that this can be done in a timely fashion. And the question is then, once you start, and assume you do as I ask, how long is it going to take you to do the project? Thank you. Thank you for all those points. In terms of the procuring materials, if this goes through and the glulam is supported by... One last point, in defense of what you want to do. I know some people worry about the asphalt. If you do the highest grade level of mass dot asphalt on top of the pelams, but you'll also, on the deck, but if you put down a geogrid, it'll distribute the weight even more. And asphalt has a certain amount of elasticity that other products don't. If it was a concrete, it would crack. Asphalt has elasticity. It'll last quite a bit longer. Thank you. Procuring materials, just to speak to that point. The DOT involvement would be purchasing and ordering all the glulam from one fabricator and having it on site before any mobilization or any road closure. Or starting of construction. So that would be a great point and something that I think would be taken care of. And just want to touch on one quick differentiator. The coating to kind of mimic a timber surface on top of asphalt is more a coating, not necessarily a stamping. Kind of a spray applied asphalt coating that's customizable and totally agree. The product that we're looking towards to try to or that we're investigating to try to mimic that timber surface is a spray applied product. It's been utilized. Sorry, a mic, Tom. Yep. Yeah, to your point, what we used in Framingham, what we used in Wayland was actually a dyed pavement that was stamped. You know, so I am thinking that, you know, as we pursue the company that we've used before, it's my intention to go with that same product line. Hello. My name is Chris Hager, Knopsgar Road Sudbury. I'm chairman of the Sudbury Historical Commission. But tonight I'm speaking just for myself. The Sudbury Historical Commission has not yet taken up this project because we're waiting for the architectural renderings and the design review. And the Sudbury DPW director is going to be getting us this information soon. And then hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll start a discussion of our review of it. So for those of you not familiar with the Sudbury Historical Commission, our bylaw set us up. So we have a responsibility for the preservation, protection, and development of historical and archaeological assets in Sudbury, including all historic town buildings and historic structures. That's why we have an interest in the design of the new bridge. Obviously the site has a very strong historical significance for both Sudbury and Wayland because the first bridge was built in the 1700s. I think as you go over the current bridge, kind of the look of it and the feel of it as you go over it, registers that there's some history associated with this bridge. So the question for our commission is whether the proposed design is going to provide the experience for future users of some kind of history associated with this structure. And that's why, you know, we're going to be taking a very close look at the materials and, you know, will this still seem like it has any history associated with the site? Somebody mentioned runway. I mean, this particular rendering of it does show kind of a runway here. Again, from my point of view, I don't see any historical significance as I would cross this bridge as opposed to the bridges that have been there before, including the current one. So I think that's something that we will be looking at. I think switching materials out and from wood, you know, that might be of a concern to us. I think it's really how are you going to honor the rich history of this site and the prior bridges that have been there? And that's what I would like you to really think about. This has come up in Sudbury on the rail trails that have been designed because they've had historical railroad artifacts along the rail trails, both Central Mass and the Bruce Freeman, including bridges that have gone through changes. And so we've worked pretty actually closely with the Whalen Historical Commission. One of their members has worked closely with our commission to come up with ways to actually honor the history of these artifacts, such as Sherman's Bridge, except on the rail trails. So I would ask you to sort of think about that concept. We've put up signage. We've worked with the town of Sudbury and the state to put up signage that honors the past history of the site. I don't see any of that as part of this plan, but I think that would be something that you might want to consider and let us know what you're thinking is of that. The chair of the Whalen Historical Commission reached out to me recently and indicated that they have some concerns. Their meeting is actually tonight, so they can't be here. So you might want to try and think about getting both commissions together. You mentioned you had the Conservation Commission and Sudbury and Whalen get together to help you with this project. I think you need to start engaging, you know, the historical commission in both towns to give you some input and ideas. And so I would encourage you to think about how you're going to honor the history of this site, either through the design or kiosks or signage or something. I don't see any of that in this sort of conceptual design that you have here. I think that was really my comments. And once we get the information from the Sudbury DPW director, then our commission will start to look at it in earnest and start to develop, you know, comments and questions for you folks. Great. Thank you. Hi, my name is Alyssa Brown. I'm the river ambassador for the Sudbury Assabet and Concord Wild and Scenic River Stewardship Council. And I know we are presenting conceptual design plans here tonight. I tend to be a tree person and not a forest person, so I have a lot of detailed questions. And I know I've asked for concept plans, detailed plans before, and they haven't been forthcoming yet. And my interest is really in the river. And so let me start off by asking a little bit more about the stormwater improvements that you're suggesting, which certainly are called for in this area. But I know the right-of-way is pretty narrow there, so I was wondering where this proposed rip-wrap discharge is. Because on the Wayland side, obviously, we'd hate to lose any of the area for recreational vehicle access. Totally. So I hate... Yeah, the intent would be we're not trying to encroach on or encroach outside of the right-of-way. Federal land everywhere and trying to get easements or anything I don't think is the right way to go. So we try to discharge just in the banks with some rip-wrap stone to help with erosion that's currently happening out there. And that's kind of what we've gone over with the Conservation Commission's is... So would this be on the Wayland side or the Sudbury side? Both. Both sides? Yep. One, just anecdotally, we've started engaging with Army Corps engineers and National Park Service has jurisdiction on the river. We've started the coordination efforts and shown the kind of conceptual plans. And most recently, as we've been trying to continue the coordination, the shutdown is affecting that. But we've been in talks with them and showing what we're trying to do and ensuring that there's no adverse effects to the Sudbury River from the parks and Army Corps side. Will there be any changes to the informal boat grants that presently exist on either side of the bridge on the Wayland side? Not looking to make any significant changes, no. Actually, there's lots of room for improvement in those. Sure. There's significant erosion into the river, which is probably the worst water quality problem we have, rather than the small amount of discharge you're going to get from the roadway. Spian, you had mentioned briefly, and I thought I heard you say you were also going to be doing some sediment removal from the river where the pilings are. And I was wondering about that, whether that sediment has been pre-characterized at all yet, particularly given that the sediment in that section of the river is within the Nianza Superfund site operating unit for mercury release, whether there has been any characterization done, whether a 401 water quality cert has been applied for yet, whether there's been any macroinvertebrates that have done of the sediment that will have to be removed and the method of removal that's proposed for that. Sure. Sediment was more intended as branches and debris that have been caught by the piles, but certainly something that I'll add to the list and we'll investigate. All right. And then I have a question, once again, on the railings, because we do have so many birders and fishermen and even paddlers that talk to their friends on one side of the river and then run over to the other side to finish the conversation. Whether the railing has to be continuous the entire length of this bridge or whether there can be occasional gaps that people could access to get in because I know people probably of my age and abilities are not able to climb over those railings to get to the other side. And people will be doing that. Actually, going back onto one of the questions has to do with the treatment of the surface, winter maintenance particularly. We've been doing an awful lot of work with our water management associations on water quality in the surface waters and the groundwaters and we're getting, particularly in the areas where MassDOT is doing the winter maintenance, tremendous inputs of road salt into our groundwater and surface waters. And so I was wondering what the maintenance, future maintenance, winter maintenance will be on these bridges and would that be different if it were asphalt versus wood, right? I can't, sorry. I can't speak to the maintenance point of view. So I would turn to the DPW to kind of help with that. Tina Rivard, DPW director for the town of Sudbury. So with regards to the winter maintenance, it would actually be a benefit of the asphalt with the road, with the salt, treating the road and the infrastructure in place to capture it at both ends of both Sudbury and Whalen at both ends of the bridge to treat, when you're plowing the roads to treat the snow and the runoff going into the catch basins before it goes off into the river. Whereas right now, if there's salt being applied onto the bridge itself, it goes right into the river in between the wooden slats. So are you suggesting that the rip-wrap in the district is going to have any impact on salt concentrations? No, it'll capture the water quality in the catch basins and before it discharges. All right. All right. And lastly, I was just going to, I was wondering if it's possible, if there are any future meetings that if you could perhaps bring a piece of glulam, because I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I sure don't know what glulam looks like. And I think it would be really helpful to see that. Thank you. Sure. Thanks. Thank you. Karen Paradise, 46 Lincoln Lane. I just want to say that I've been very impressed with how respectful you've been of the residents, and I really appreciate that. I've lived it for 40 years on Lincoln Lane, and I have witnessed people typically going about 40 miles an hour over the bridge during certain periods of the day when they're in a hurry to get wherever they're going. We have a lot of high schoolers driving. One died some years ago on Lincoln Road. We have people who speed regularly there, and I believe coming from the Whelan side, it's worse than coming from the Sudbury side, because the line of sight is longer. And what happens is the people on the bridge itself, if it's paved, could be endangered by greater speeds. If people could go 50 or 60 miles an hour by the time they reach the bridge, it could be very dangerous. So I see the need for this speed rail that you're contemplating. But again, I understand that you're debating whether to go with wood or asphalt. And I would ask you to talk to the town of Stowe on Sudbury Road. There's a bridge that's been covered with asphalt. They have to pave it every year, every year. It develops potholes every year. So the wood is moving in a different pace from the asphalt. They've had asphalt on that bridge for many years. It's on Sudbury Road in Stowe. So I'm concerned about the speed, having lived there for all those years. I've seen all the teenagers who come up there running. The coaches send them up the road, and they run all the way to the bridge, and they run back. So having people speeding a lot faster in that section could be a very serious issue, and not a light issue as it's been portrayed. But thank you very much for all of your consideration. Sure. Thank you. Hi, John Weintraub. I grew up in Whalen, lived here for 18 years, moved away, and I've been living here for the last 18 years. So I grew up as a kid going to the bridge, and I love bringing my kids to the bridge today. There's obviously historical significance, but it's also just a place of peace. It's a place to see the sunrise or the sunset. And when I go there, just my blood pressure goes down. So I'd love to see it remain a wooden bridge, even if it's laminate, without the wearing surface. And I do have a couple of questions I've read. I've done some work on glulam bridges. I think it was Elise who brought up some issues with the wearing surface, especially when you have glulam on top of a sawn wood structure. Because sawn wood, which is just solid wood, will expand and contrast with moisture and the environment. Glulam won't. So then you start to get some deflection in the surface, which creates cracks, potholes. And from what I've read, the maintenance on a paved bridge over wood is not as simple as repairing a regular pothole. Typically you have a layer of asphalt, you have a membrane, and another layer of asphalt. So when you're repairing that pothole, you have to be careful that you don't damage the membrane. If you do, then it's a bigger issue. So there's a lot more maintenance if and when you have cracks or potholes. A question that I do have as far as, this is a flat bridge. The structure as it is today is flat. If you build this, what I'm seeing here is what's called scuppers. And scuppers is where the water goes off. You usually have a crown in the road, water goes off. So that would imply that that water is being shed into the river. How do you plan on diverting that water back to the end of the bridge? So if you could talk to that, that would be great. Sure. Go ahead. Okay. Fair. I think that certainly scuppers will allow some water to leave the structure before we get to the catch basins. Intent being that vast majority would get to the approaches and get to those catch basins for pre-treatment to re-enter the river. How is that possible? If the road is flat, you have a convex, a crowned road with those scuppers, and if the bridge deck is flat, how would you get enough pitch to get it? The survey shows that it is not perfectly flat that there is a pitch. I forget whether it pitches towards Wayland or Sudbury. I believe towards Wayland. But that would be the goal and the intent is to try to make sure it gets to those approaches. But again, with a slight crown, you will have a fair amount going to the water. So I don't think that the environmental benefit is really a lot to argue for the paved. And then also the paved deck, as a lot of people implied, would bring up speed. You talk about the fact that speed has to come down. But if we say that this is a 25-mile-an-hour bridge, which some people say it should be 15, which I agree, but even if it's 25, then putting in a significantly sized bridge approach device like that seems to be overkill for a 25-mile-an-hour bridge. I was involved in a bridge replacement on a 25-mile-an-hour road on the Cape, and we did not have to do that. And then the other thing I just want to add, because I just want to make sure, because it was brought up that we don't want to miss this money. But it's my understanding that the money is not dependent on putting that wear surface down. The money is for the glulam. So if we go glulam without the wear surface, we will still get the state money. So I just want to make sure that people understand if that's true. It just hasn't been fully guaranteed is the only drawback with that. And just to speak to the crash-tested ends, it could be speed-driven, but also could be the banks and the side slopes that could be project-specific, which is why we would require it. It could be, again, there hasn't been any accident there. In Whalen, we have a lot of roads. If you go down Plain or Claypet Hill Road, we have roads where there's four-foot trees that are literally right at. So my point is, I could walk on the sidewalk with a helmet, and I'll be safer. But at the end of the day, we don't have to necessarily over-improve things. And, again, I just want to circle back to my points on the watershed and the fact that the bridge structure, especially since it's significantly old, that there's a good chance that the substructure will flex more and create issues for the paved deck. So, thanks for your time. And, again, I appreciate the fact that Whalen and Subbury is looking for opportunities to save money for the town, because I think that's great as far as thinking about it strategically. But I think we have to balance that with the fact that this is an asset to the town, number one. And, two, that we're putting a beautiful, highly engineered new structure over something that's already probably significantly into its lifespan and the risk of that. I think that 40-year lifespan might not be true if we're putting it on a deck that's already 20 years old. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, I'm Sheila Corbett, and I live at 72 Sherman Bridge Road. And, basically, I am the abutter to the bridge. There's nobody else but us right at Sherman's Bridge Road. We know how fast people go on Sherman's Bridge Road. And having an asphalt bridge is going to just make them go faster. They go 40, 50 miles an hour now. I live right there. I know how fast they go. And during the wintertime, if they go around the bend too fast, they end up in the woods right before the bridge. So, knowing this and anticipating some kind of speed problem is a big thing. I have a dog. I walk my dog. I can't walk my dog when it's speeding. I have to change my hours walking the dog right now because the 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock, cars are constant on the bridge. I mean, constant on the bridge in the morning. In the afternoon, they change ways of going home, but in the morning, everybody travels down Sherman's Bridge Road, and it's very dangerous. So, I've had people turn around in my driveway. I have a big wide driveway. I don't want big trucks driving into my driveway to turn around, access my property. I've had trash trucks turn around in my driveway. Not even looking, they almost hit my mother. In my own driveway. It's not fair that all of this is going to end up when people come down to the bridge and not going to be able to cross the bridge. They're going to turn around in my driveway because everything is going to be right there at the bridge, and they're not going to be able to get by. So, I've had lost the pads in my driveway. My cement pads go onto the street, have all been crumbled by the trucks that turn around in my driveway. I have a big fear of when this project gets done of all the issues that I have with trucks and issues that I have with people not having the consideration of what's going on. I have an elderly mother there, and so I'm very concerned about what's going on with the trucks. The big, huge trucks that drive over that bridge right now. The 18-wheelers, they've got the big logging trucks that go over that bridge. The reason why it's crumbling is because of these big, huge trucks. If the trucks weren't going over the bridge, it would be much safer. We could keep a wooden bridge, especially, you know, the aesthetic pleasingness of the bridge in the area. Having an asphalt bridge is going to take away a lot of the quaintness of Wayland and Sudbury. So, that's it. Sure. Thank you for it all. Thanks. Hello. My name is Kirk Tramposh. I live at 2 Weir Meadow Path in Wayland. When you're on the north side of the bridge, looking up toward Weir Hill, we're the last house on the river. So, it's about 2,000 feet away and a line of sight. And I've participated in the last sessions from 87, 15, 16, 92, the rebuild of the bridge. And it's clear that things have changed on Sherman Bridge. Before, the traffic calming used to be the potholes on the bridge. And the, not the bridge, on the Sherman Bridge road side. On the approaches, sir? Yeah. And then the road was repaved. Now we have multiple stop signs which have helped slow down things. The issue I'm having is the bridge is being repaired in a larger context. And while it's trying to solve some problems, it's causing other problems that aren't dealt with if you're talking about safety and preserving safety. One question I have, Mike, is what is the crash test rating on the glulam side rails, sir? Reference to speak to it being a TL4 crash testing rating. What speed? I'm going to turn to Kev for a little help on explaining the TL levels. Sorry, we need a mic. The last I heard, it was a 60 mile per hour crash test. Okay. The median speed on the road has been determined to be roughly 38 overall. But Sherman Bridge and Lincoln Road accesses to the bridge were straightened out in 72 with some land takings where the towns took out some of the curves. They were determined in 87 proposal to be a hazard. So they were going to be straightened even more with the concrete bridge that was going to be coming in, the $3 or $4 million. Basically, the model for it was the railroad bridge in West Concord. And this was a DOT and the highway departments had pretty much signed off on it until we had a neighborhood meeting. And I guess what I'm thinking here is, is this the first neighborhood visioning that this project has had? Is this the first overall meeting of the two towns residents to discuss this project? Has there been one earlier? No. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's a good point because the plan right now, this is not staying up. The plan right now, as I read in the handout, is to continue the design and permitting phase to the end of this year. Let's see, that's about two months away. And then go into final project planning. At some point in order to get this far on the project, a contract had to be signed with the state. How long ago was that in order to get the monies for planning, for design, for consulting, for... No contract. There's no contract with the state right now? No, they've offered to be a partner with this project and support it financially. What is the idea of using a glulam surface that is being done in kind? What is that about? Who is doing that? What, giving a working, I think Mr. Holder had discussed working with a company that's involved in the project to try out something new. What, what is that, Tom? So I guess to answer some of your questions in the order that you were asking them is, you know, we've been working with MassDOT. Okay. They understand, based upon their inspection reports, that this bridge is now categorized as in severe, you know, a disrepair. The repair needs to be made as soon as possible. They have a process whereby glulam is applied. There's a top course of asphalt. Yes. They are strongly emphasizing that that be the route and the design that we pursue. We are, we have the opportunity to obtain, in essence, what is valued at about a million dollars. $325,000 for the glulam materials, and the balance of that is what they're saying they will likely be able to use their area contractor to perform the installation. I'm sorry, is this the state you're talking about? MassDOT. Okay. Yep. So they've, they have the contract. They have area contracts. They did something similar for us two years ago on Route 27 over the Sudbury River. Sure. Whereby they, you know, they did the work for us, and it worked out beautifully. Sure. So that's the schedule that we're trying to adhere to. They have, they have told us, they wanted an answer from us some time ago, but we knew how important it was for us to have public input, give residents abutters the opportunity to speak their mind, to offer suggestions, what their desires, what they feel are important. So we deferred giving MassDOT a response until after we've had this gathering. We've heard a lot. We knew it was important to, to gain this information. But if we're to benefit from, in essence, a million dollar opportunity here, we need to notify them that Sudbury and Wayland are prepared to advance this project. And their deadline is to have it completed within calendar year 26. And the reason for the, I read the inspection report from last year. It didn't seem like there was critical need to do a immediate repair. ASAP. SA is the, on much of the decking criteria. Yes. You read that and you'll see SA. That's severe, major deterioration, repair as soon as possible. Right. When you go back through the historic records on bridge deck repair to this bridge, right into the 1700s, that was a normal thing to do. Every five, ten years, the repair of the decking had to be done. It had to be done. And it was. And sometimes less exponentially than others, expeditiously. But that's always been part of having a timber bridge. When Don Ouellette, your successor, your predecessor, made the proposal 10, 15 years ago to replace the bridge. It's going to be three or four million dollar concrete bridge. And the comparison to, say, spending $20,000 a year to replace timbers at the worst, or $20,000 every two years. It turned out to be like a 300-year payback in order to accommodate for a new bridge versus replacing decking periodically. The superstructure has to be replaced periodically and has been. But where the expenses on the bridge right now have to do with making it safer and faster for cars. Basically, by fencing off pedestrian and viewing areas, putting in asphalt to make it faster, and making it difficult for pedestrians on the bridge to move back and forth on the bridge, depending on what's happening on the river. What I'm seeing is it's being done with DOT funds for the sake of the bridge, but not really looking at the context of the entry points from either side, from Sudbury or from Wayland. It's not looking at the disappearing sidewalks on at least the Wayland side and the most dangerous hill on the whole road as you approach the bridge, a blind, curved, steep hill. It's not accommodating for weight limits, as far as I can see. It's really beyond me that the bridge has been able to withstand the kinds of traffic and weights it has. And I thoroughly understand the neighbors' concerns with noise because 2,000 feet away, my wife and I, who have been living where we are for 50 years, with the wind direction right, can hear the noise from the bridge rumbling. Sometimes it's very loud, sometimes it's not. But I keep in mind Pelham Island Bridge, when that was finally replaced from a single lane wooden bridge to what we have now, a concrete bridge. The first thing the neighbors did after Pelham Island Bridge was put in with two lanes was complain about the traffic speed and the noise. And they wanted speed bumps put in because in the past the bridge had been the speed bump. And now, I don't know if they're still doing it now, but they were looking for rumble strips or they were looking for speed bumps or something to slow down. Is that correct? Do I have that right? I am not aware of any intention of putting speed bumps, speed humps or rumble strips on Pelham Island Road. No, not intention, but neighbors were complaining about it after the bridge had been installed. Yeah, that, I'm not aware of it, likely because I wasn't here when that work was done. Oh, okay, sorry. Gleason Lane has, I think, 11 speed bumps, humps, rumps, whatever, for the neighbors who are worried about traffic coming through Gleason Lane to go to the town mall. And the first thing that happened was landscaper trailers and trucks made terrific noise coming down through Gleason Lane as they were going all these speed bumps and they weren't going slowly either. This bridge is acting as a speed bump for traffic. The asphalt and the confining the driving area, making it less possible to interact with bicyclists or pedestrians or people fishing on the bridge, is going to speed up the bridge. But without doing anything on either access side and without looking at the problems on Sherman Bridge Road itself, which I think is an extraordinarily unsafe road. I've biked it, I've run it for 50 years. And that roadway, when you get to the choke point coming from Oxbow and Alpine going up the hill, is the most dangerous, confining, invisible, fast corner for anybody walking a baby carriage or riding a bike or running that I've seen in town. This is nothing to do with the safety of that when we're looking at just the bridge and the project and how this is going to increase traffic on the roadway. The other problem that I should mention is I didn't take long searching to find that glulam surfaces are very problematic when they're applied to a timber bridge, especially an older existing bridge. In this case, major reports in the past 20 years have assessed glulam surfaces with asphalt on top of timber structures. And they found that it will de-laminate, it will deflect differentially, it has a wearing surface when you have a problem with asphalt on a glulam, has to be attended to immediately. You can't wait like you can with timbers, because the problem gets worse in a hurry. One of the things, and the studies are there, and I'm sure that people in this room can provide them to you. But having gotten this far with this process, it looks like it's a fait accompli. That is, it's going to be glulam, it's going to be crash-worthy things. Is that not the case? Is there any thought that this might change, or the wonderful comments that we have tonight are going to make a change in this design? And how does that happen? So what we are trying to achieve is a bridge repair design that provides a balance for providing the public safety issues that we've been talking about all evening, but also being mindful of preserving the historical appearance and functionality of the bridge. That's important to me, because I've been on, I was on the steering committee for the Sudbury and Assabit River Committee for ten years. I've been involved in many of the issues in town around historic preservation. This is not, in any form, historic preservation. Adding the steel to the bridge, adding the asphalt. I like Roy's comment about the orange because it's actually very telling. This is a DOT structure with a million dollars attached to it without having alternatives presented. The fact that we're at the end of the year and we're already wrapping up the design process and permitting, permitting, is Mass DEP involved? Well, the Conservation Commission has to report and file with Mass DEP, so indirectly they are, yes. Fish and Wildlife? We are working with them as well. We are working with them as well. Army Corps of Engineers, yes. The Army Corps, you're working with them in what way? To obtain permits to perform this work. All right. So in other words, you already have a bridge with glue lamb and a million dollars that's going through the permitting process before we've even had the envisioning, quote, session. I don't understand that. I don't understand that. That's turning the process on its head. This is unlike any other kind of process I've seen on the bridge, and it seems almost irreversible at this point. But here's one other thing. Sherman Bridge is the last bridge to go underwater during a major flood. 2010, 1987, 1968. Route 20 goes under in Whelan. Route 27 goes under at the golf course. 117 goes under. I've actually been on 117 with fishtails where people are rushing to get over the bridge before the water came up any longer, any higher, so you could get on the other side of the river in rushing traffic where you couldn't even see the road. This bridge is the last bridge. And when it goes underwater, the access sides, the access on both sides, goes underwater first. People are still using the bridge. The lamination, the delamining of the glulam under flooding conditions is severe. It's a documented problem. It's in the water. Basically, the bridge is underwater for a week, sometimes more. I haven't heard anything about issues around glulam surfaces, although they're out there, the history of problems with glulam. But this bridge does flood. And when it does, you have all of that membrane and glulam and asphalt and everything else basically underwater while people are still driving on it until it gets too deep and the bridge has to be closed. I haven't heard anything addressing issues of debris. In 68, Army Corps of Engineers had a great picture of a crane that had to come in and get on the bridge to remove all the debris that a hurricane had deposited upriver on the south side of the bridge in order to keep the bridge from collapsing. When you have that kind of debris hitting against an engineered system like this, there's no hope that it's going to retain its integrity. But the biggest problem I have, Tom, is the – and I'll stop, but I'm not finished – but I – it's very disappointing to be in the final stages of an envisioning where it involves recreation, it involves bicyclists. I've seen groups of bicyclists stop on the bridge in order to admire the wildlife refuge. Fishing a regular event, the landings there almost went away with one of the earlier bridge designs, and I and others in the neighborhood had to fight to keep the landing. Tom is right. Tom is right. You have very few access points along the river. This is an important one. I guess what I'd like to do is reply – Yes. Covering a fair amount of items that you've mentioned. Yes, thank you. I just want to explain how we got to where we are tonight and why we're at this schedule. All right. You know, we have bridge inspection reports from years past whereby we were able to accommodate an answer to those reports by replacing timber boards each season, sometimes twice per season. Yes. Now the bridge reports tell us that we're at a much higher level of deterioration. We can no longer sustain the maintenance approach that we have been currently. Those lag bolts have nothing to bite into. You go on the bridge, I'm sure. Well, they were misaligned to begin with. Somebody didn't know how to put them in. Well, I would debate that, but – so we cannot sustain that. We can't go on another year or two, even a year. Yes. We have nothing to bite into. So MassDOT has stated to us, we invited them tonight. They were unable to attend. But if we do not make a repair to this bridge in the coming year, they will close it. So we have been making this effort – we have been making this – The neighborhood was very quiet when they were rebuilding the bridge. Bear with me one minute. Yes. So we have been making this effort to develop a solution that achieves the balance that I was talking about earlier. The balance comes with inviting – And this is the first time – Groups and neighbors to come in. People who have lived here. I think this bridge was replaced or worked on in 71, 91. Yes. It was proposed in 2015. Now we're proposing it. I believe this is the first time ever that a forum has been scheduled and held to obtain input. No, that's not true. In fact, I was here in Sudbury for one of the earlier iterations. I think it was 87, with the concrete bridge. That was a forum before the final design forum. They were proposing a design. And I and neighbors, some who are here, were at that meeting. And we got them to change a few things. Like they wanted to raise the bridge four feet in order to be out of the water so it would be the only bridge that was out of the water when all the other roads were – they wanted to straighten out and raise the access on either side of the bridge to make it faster. We had a meeting then and it did have an impact and they decided not to go with it. I've been to all those meetings. Yeah, yeah. And I think that those meetings were held when the design process was much further along. I think that there were obligations made at that point in time were coming before the residents and the abutters, the interested parties, well before those meetings were held in the past. That was the point I was trying to make. Yeah. So I guess bottom line is we need to – we need to do something now. And I believe what we're proposing, there have been a lot of informative remarks made tonight. So we will now go back as a design and project team and speak to these things and put together – Have another meeting? Have another community? If we're to utilize the offering of MassDOT, we would not be having – No, Tom. No. It's not that imperative. There are things that have to be fixed on the bridge and they do have to be fixed sooner rather than later. But it's not falling to the river. It's not dangerous. In fact, one of the things that I've been worried about here, we've been hearing about crash testing and having a bridge that – this is rated as an urban collector bridge. And it's rated as that because it's in a town, in towns, which have an urban population more toward Route 20 and 30. But this is a rural bridge situation, not an urban collector. A lot of these design techniques that are being used are to accommodate DOT crash standards, which aren't necessary for this bridge. And what I'm asking is, where have there been accidents that necessitate this kind of – what's the word? Making it a – I mean, I can speak to that. I mean, we've got two registered engineers sitting here as panelists. But, you know, when they're asked to put their professional stamp on a set of design drawings, they need to assure that current standards are being met. No, no. The question is, where's the documentation that there have been accidents, endangerments on the bridge that require this kind of reinforcement? I don't think you need to provide evidence that there's a chance. I think you need to – There are standards that are put in place. No, have there been accidents. Hmm. Have there been accidents on the bridge? Have pedestrians been hit? Have bicyclists gone off the road? Has a bridge – has a car gone off the bridge that requires this kind of reinforcement? And then I guess, you know, I'm not sure if we want to debate this, but I'll ask you guys, do we have to provide evidence – It either is or isn't. It isn't a debate. Do we have to provide evidence that there were crashes, or are there standards that have to be met regardless? I think there's a ladder. You have very good questions. You know, as far as what is the justification – Well, I'm sorry to rail on, but these are not being answered tonight. Frankly, we don't wait for accidents to happen to make changes occur. We design to prevent things from occurring. It's a responsibility that we have as professional engineers, but that's why standards exist, so that there's the predictability of those features that we touch on the design side and that the towns construct that have a reasonable assurance of meeting not some arbitrary standard, but tested national, federal standards that are supported by the American Association of State Highway Transportation officials and others, not just some appearance of a state-level design that gets hammered down to Wayland and Subbury. This is a fundamental element of basic roadway safety features. All right. I guess what I'm asking is what wasn't working up until now that it necessitates this kind of million-and-a-half dollars? I know it needs repairs. I know it's going to take money. The decking has issues need to be fixed, but why all of this? Because it's responsible design. That's what it comes down to. And like I said before, we don't wait for accidents to occur to wait for that to have something happen. We do it from our approach to make sure that there's a level of safety that we can stand behind with our stamps that represent something that we know is safe for the motoring, the walking, the biking public. So something like independent of the color of certain features on the rendering, but the type of features to have a rail that's affixed to the bridge deck that's closest to the traffic to keep traffic on the bridge. If not that, the alternatives to something else would precipitate a completely different type of structure, which I don't think anybody in this room would want. So this is the balancing that Tom talked about, which is how can we try to respect the timber frame structure, but in a way that meets current safety standards responsibly for all types of users? All right, this is considered an urban collector bridge, according to the inspection. These are safety standards for a bridge that is not in a rural, historic, environmentally sensitive area because of... And please review the information on glulam and the national associations that have come out against putting glulam onto an existing timber bridge. It's there. Chapters have been written in reports over the past 20 years talking about the problems of this technology. I understand it's attractive. I know from, say, the incident in Duxbury where the timber bridge that was there that the town manager was trying to secretly kill for four and a half years because he had to keep repairing it and didn't even tell the selectmen he was working with DOT to try to kill it. That's still undergoing now. That's a major... Well, you know. You know better than I... I have no knowledge of this Duxbury project, so... Okay, well, it's a powder point bridge in Duxbury. It's a historic bridge. It's like two Sherman bridges together. Excuse me, sir. And they've been trying to kill that bridge because it's work to keep a timber bridge going. But the question is, what kind of accident reports? You have to have something in the past that shows it's necessary to harden this structure to this degree. Thank you, sir, for your... Where are those reports? We appreciate your comments and your questions. There's a line of people behind you that have been waiting quite a while to speak. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were there. I thought I was going to yell into the night. You wouldn't mind if they could come up and ask their questions? I certainly will. I appreciate your patience. I'm sorry to unload here, but these are all things that, having been 50 years involved in Sherman Bridge, are pretty apparent to me and many of the neighbors who are here who have even been there longer, working through the process of trying to preserve a historic wooden bridge that's appropriate for that spot. And there are accommodations that can be made, but coming to a group like this, saying we have a million dollars, we have an imperative to get the structure repaired now is impossible. It's like saying, you know, thank you for coming, but we already have the plan and we're about to sign off on it. I don't know when the contract's going to place, but pretty soon, I imagine. Thank you very much. As Director Holder had said, this meeting was to collect the feedback, and they're going to take that feedback, the team, and they're going to look at what amendments can be made. Is that terrific? Will you now agree to have another meeting to discuss the feedback, the changes, and any implementation, some feedback from the community before contracts are signed to do this monstrosity? There are other public hearings and other opportunities to provide feedback in both towns, such as your Conservation Commission meetings and other meetings? No, no. I mean a hearing like this, a get-together. It's something that's standard practice. Mike can tell you. Have you signed up for the email subscriber list? I certainly have. I'm looking forward to them. So we can discuss that internally and see if it works into the timeframe, if there's going to be another opportunity. The timeframe is what? The timeframe is to have it done by next summer so you can do it during the summer and get the money? What timeframe? Well, we have to look at the project schedule, sir, and respectfully, we have to absorb what has been presented here today. Yes. And then we can email out an update to you once we've had time. All right, email updates. We need a meeting. We need another opportunity to get the kind of feedback that you got tonight that I thought was extraordinary. It was very helpful. I do, too. I think it was a wonderful thing to see people actually come out to one of these meetings and to contribute their thoughts and their feedback. They're actually interested in it, yes. Yes. And it's wonderful to see that and we appreciate that. And I applaud you all because you gave us some more ideas outside of the box. Mr. McDowell gave some really great ideas. You've provided your feedback. We do want to take that feedback back with us and talk about it with the team. All right. So we are going to have another community meeting after this one? So what I'm prepared to commit to tonight is that we as a design project team will debrief over this meeting. We will commit that within three weeks, using the distribution list that we have, we will put out a message to everybody here tonight on what the next steps are. And if you are not satisfied with that, then you will have the ability to reach out to town officials and make that known. By email? That you're going to reach out to town officials? Yeah. That works best. Tom, that's not acceptable. This is a major project. It's a major change to the context of it. And it's doing it without any regard for the safety of the road itself in both directions. There's a lot of things that needs to be done there. This isn't solving those other problems on the road. Right. So what I guess I'm saying is that we'll put out the message to everybody here tonight on what we believe our next steps will be. If you are not satisfied with that and you want to demand another meeting, then I would suggest you contact all of us and make that demand. But let us please at least learn from you tonight, put together a plan and offer up next steps. Well, I understand that that's... That's what I'm, that's what I'm prepared to obligate tonight. Well, that's, that's the efficient way to do it. But it's making this kind of a sham meeting because we're not really, we're giving input, but we're kind of, you know, that's, that's the design. And we're going ahead with it. And we have a million dollars go. Yeah, that's not, that's not true. Okay. So you are going to commit to another full meeting. I'm going to commit to informing this group what next steps are, what we learned tonight, what are going to be implemented into the design. And if that does not satisfy the group, then you can reach back out and let us know that. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate it. I didn't mean to unload on you. No worries. You're, you're, you're the guy at the mic. So thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Good evening. Alicia Carillo, Basswood Avenue in Sudbury. I am so impressed by the commitment investment by the folks that came out tonight. And you certainly know a lot more than I do. And I appreciate that. I feel like I'm in good hands. It's clear to me that the about 50 people who have been here tonight, the majority who have spoken are against the plan as it is proposed at this point. I think what I'm hearing is that this is the first vision meeting and is the last vision meeting. That's what I'm hearing. I'm also, I think I'm hearing that the feedback presented by folks tonight will be considered in tweaking the plan. And I just wonder the likelihood of that. And also in my mind, I'm just thinking what will happen when we see the final plan and nothing has changed. I'm just putting that out there, like the what if of that. I heard from Wayland some emails and phone calls read into the record earlier tonight. I know our town manager of Sudbury is here tonight. And I'm wondering if there was any communication from Sudbury residents about the proposal that we have yet to hear about. I apologize. I compiled the list of recorded correspondences between Sudbury residents and the project team. We compiled it into one list that Tom had read earlier tonight. So those comments, concerns and opinions and voices from both towns were read tonight from both communities. Thank you. And so I will just echo a lot of what I've heard tonight. This looks like overkill to me. I think we should go with a smooth wooden finish to comply with the scenic and historic site. I agree with the gentleman who spoke earlier that he goes down at the bridge and his blood pressure immediately comes down. When I look at this picture, my blood pressure is spiked. And I do appreciate the times when I have gone down to the bridge and been able to relax and kind of commune in that site. I would ask that going forward, I'm just looking at all the railings there. And one thing I've noticed as I drive over bridge after bridge after bridge in New England that has been, that have changed, been, you know, renovated. I forget it wasn't, I forget what word was used before. Rehabilitation. Rehabilitation, yeah. That suddenly as you go by and slow down to look at the scenery, you can't see anything because the railings are so fortified that there is no scenic view anymore. So I would just say that, that my hope is no matter what happens, when I slow down to five miles an hour to go over the bridge so that I can take in the scenery, that I'll still be able to do that. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. My name is Michael Hodges. I live very close to the bridge, 62 Sherman Bridge Road. I've lived there with my wife Karen for a little over 26 years. I've agreed with many of the things mentioned tonight. I personally have been using the bridge quite frequently. I go down there perhaps 10 times in the last two months for viewing, photography, watching the Great Blues and other wildlife. And one of the things that looking, just looking at this picture, it'd be nice to have walkways on both sides of the bridge. This rendering I see here, the one walkway that's there is narrowed. I wasn't thinking about it until I heard tonight that maybe that's not even compliant with people with disabilities. I would like to know if it's possible to maintain the current width of a walkway, perhaps with a little bit more of engineering, or modification, and adding it to the other side, if that actually can happen. That would be a request of myself, which I don't think I've heard the answer to. Okay. Thank you very much. Of course. Speaking to the slight narrowing on that side, I think a great comment, I forget who made it, of trying to get that foot back with a little candle lever on the side is certainly something that we'll look into, to try to maintain that current width, just to help that cause. Yeah. And also have the same thing on the other side. Yeah. That would be something that's new. Sure. Yeah. Challenges with that would just be town right-of-way on that side of the road is not, would have to investigate the width available for that. And it'd be quite difficult to do any type of cantilevered structure off the existing piles. So there'd be likely more in-water work and impacts that would require the permanent efforts. Okay. Well, I still would like to see that this is also being improved for other people than people and vehicles. And that would be a great improvement, besides many of the other speed issues, which I think are really important too. Sure. But I just wanted to say that that I think would be a great improvement for the pedestrians, the people that are walking and viewing off the bridge. Thank you. Of course. Thanks. Hi. Alisa on Sherman's Bridge Road in Wayland. And they call it Sherman Bridge because the post office can't handle an apostrophe S. And that's why it's in the deeds. Yeah. So if you write Sherman's Bridge on an envelope, it won't get there. So first, I wanted to thank everybody who has come here to hear the people who this concerns. And I didn't say that before because I was nervous. I'm still nervous. But I just kind of wanted to sum up. This is a bridge that is part of a conservation land and historic land and scenery. And it connects to completely residential, rural areas. From other roads off of Sherman's Bridge Road, or off the bridge, you might be able to get to Route 126 or 27 or whatever. But this is not a city. It's not urban. It's barely suburban. And it is not a highway. It would be better if it was just closed and made for pedestrians and maintain the viewing and the character of what is a historic bridge in this town and Sudbury. But I think what you've heard tonight is that changing the bridge this way may fix the bridge. It only increases danger for people on the ends of the bridge as people are speeding over it because it's easier, on Sherman's Bridge Road, on Lincoln Road, Road Lane. And so to rush this project through because we're going to get a million dollars' worth of free stuff is nearsighted, short-sighted. And a project like this would need you to consider, need to be considered, what the impact is on the neighborhood. Because this is a neighborhood bridge. Two neighborhoods. And it wouldn't be good. And apparently, like where I live, the place where they go the fastest on Sherman's Bridge Road, because they know they're going to have to stop at the stop sign so they want to go as fast as possible because they finally got onto Sherman's Bridge Road from, you know, 126. Phew! Apparently, it used to be a windy road and they straightened it out when they redid the bridge. It's a really stupid idea. Maybe what they should do is have, you know, some kind of a curve coming on and off or even a rotary or something where only cars can fit and go around that rotary, you know. So in order to preserve the neighborhoods that are impacted on either side of the bridge, which would be better if it was in some way, wouldn't and didn't have those obstacles. Because when you're out there looking at the view in this historic and nature conservation land bridge, you want to walk across both sides. You know, you don't want to have to reach your legs over and a short person like me can't do it, or walk all the way to the end to be able to get out of your kennel that goes along the sides and come back up the other side. We go back and forth in the front and it's, I don't. You're talking about restrictions. Yeah, it's just, it's restricted. And, or make it a one lane road and sometimes the days can go one way, sometimes the other way and have nice wide sides on, you know, on either side where wheelchairs and limited access can go. And, you know, it's a much more continuing the use that it has now, which is as much recreation of the neighborhood as it is trucks and vehicles crossing in order to avoid the highways that they should be on. Thank you. Thanks. Carol, I live on Lincoln, Lincoln Road. I just want to make a comment on your photograph there, your artist's rendering. Where are the streetlights going in? I see the wires going over the bridge. There are none there. In reality, I don't think there are any wires going over the bridge. That's something that shouldn't have been in the picture. That's all short and sweet. Thank you. Hi, I'm Chris Foster at Oxbow Road, which runs into Sherman's Bridge. My visual of this is that it doesn't really seem to preserve the historic character of the bridge, mostly I think because of the asphalt. So I'm wondering what other materials were considered. I get that there's the stamping or the striping, but what other materials were considered as alternatives to asphalt? Only other, and this is not considered, but in terms of wearing surfaces besides asphalt, it would be concrete, and that's not something that we entertained on this bridge. But there are no other kinds of wood or composite materials that could be used to solve the existing problem and build a better decking for it? We could investigate other alternatives besides asphalt, but kind of the goal is to try to protect that investment of the glulam and lower the maintenance burden. So we'll take that into consideration. At the end of the day, there might be other materials that look more aesthetically pleasing, but are... Potentially. Potentially. Yeah, okay. Or no asphalt, but we'll investigate that. Asphalt, I see the difficulty there. It's cracking. And it's also asphalt would be, from my perspective, the same as having, you know, what's depicted here, which doesn't look anything like a historic bridge. So, I mean, this is a fine bridge, but it's not a historic bridge. It doesn't look like a historic bridge. Mm-hmm. So, it would be good to know what the other alternatives are. Great. Thank you. Yeah. So, in the lateness of the hour, because it's almost 9.15, we'll take this gentleman's question, and then we're going to convene the meeting. Thank you, sir. Good. So, what we just heard was a problem with the project overview. I'm Jeff Stein. I live at 48 Sherman's Bridge Road for the past 25 years. Here you write, Sherman's Bridge carries traffic across the Sudbury River between Sudbury and Weyland. If that were all that Sherman's Bridge did, the picture here would mean that you solved the problem. But as you've heard tonight, that's only one little part of what Sherman's Bridge is, an iconic historic wooden structure that defines an entire neighborhood. Sherman's Bridge is a place. People congregate there. People have been married on the bridge, for heaven's sake. But when you go to the bridge on almost any day, you can see someone photographing, painting, fishing off the bridge, putting boats in the water, just standing there watching the sunset. Or, at night time, this is the only place on Sherman's Bridge Road, the end of the road, before it gets to Sudbury, where the sky is available to you. So the dark night sky is a wondrous thing from the middle of Sherman's Bridge. And people bring their telescopes to there, too. Shrinking the sidewalk from five feet, which is already a little too small, to four feet, isn't helping many of the clients that you have for this bridge. So I would recommend at least a six-foot sidewalk, easy to cantilever that. You probably know the rule of thumb for your front porch. It has to be at least six feet deep or else someone standing there can't walk behind them and yada, yada, yada. So Sherman's Bridge is a place. Remember that as you work over the next three weeks to see if you can solve some of the problems that are so much more complex than what you've presented to us so far. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. And I hope that you have signed up for the email subscriber list. As Director Holder had mentioned, we will be emailing out an update and next steps. And we appreciate that.
Hi, everyone. As Nicole said, my name is Mike Ricciardi. I'm from TEC, working on behalf of both DPW directors. A little background on why we're here. We've developed some conceptual plans that have been shared on the project website, but we're looking to gather some community input before we progress too much further. Really what we're looking for tonight is to discuss the goals of the project. Looking to increase safety at the crossing. Secondary benefit of what we're proposing is improving water quality. And the biggest piece of this is we're looking to reduce the maintenance for both DPWs at the bridge. As many of you know, there's been a crossing of some kind here since the 1700s. The bridge in its current form was reconstructed in 1992, and it is jointly owned by both towns and connects Sudbury to Wayland, and crosses the Sudbury River and the Great Meadows National Wildlife Refuge. Repairs are needed at the bridge. We have an aging timber deck that requires frequent repairs that are becoming more and more frequent and more and more difficult to complete. Down below, the riding surface surface is some disconnected substructure bracing where the steel fasteners are rusted and not properly performing like we'd like anymore. And for those reasons, there's some safety concerns for both pedestrians and drivers. The conceptual design that we've worked on so far, a rendering is shown on the bottom left. We're, in order to replace the timber deck, we're proposing a glulam timber surface. Benefit of that is that we can then propose a crash-tested glulam timber bridge rail, increasing safety for pedestrians and vehicles. The suggestion for glulam that we would certainly recommend would be to properly protect it with an asphalt coating and a waterproofing membrane, would reduce maintenance needs, improve rideability over the structure. With the glulam bridge rails, we would like to, or we would be required to install crash-tested approach guardrail as well. And knowing that the important aesthetic of the crossing and the area, what we've tried to incorporate is shown in the photo on the bottom right, where instead of kind of the shiny steel guardrail, we propose to write the specifications in such a way where the steel would be painted. This is a project that we successfully designed and was built in Carlisle, I believe, where we're trying to blend into the aesthetics better. I kind of touched on it, but what we're really looking to do is improve public safety. Glulam crash-tested guardrails are, can be incorporated with the glulam deck, which improves safety for both drivers and pedestrians. New, smoother, wearing surface would make things safer for folks driving on the road. And the glulam would reduce maintenance and just provide kind of a stronger, more resilient structure at the crossing. I kind of touched on it before, the secondary benefit of the asphalt would be being able to install some catch basins and some outlet structures in the approaches. Currently, water or any debris on cars can enter the Sudbury River directly through the bridge deck. So a secondary benefit of the asphalt coating would be to protect the watershed, offer some level of pretreatment of water before it re-enters the river. The outfall structures would have some riprap stones on the banks, which would help reduce erosion. And we'd also look to improve some of the sediment buildup around the timber piles. A unique opportunity has kind of been presented here. When we kind of started working with the towns, we reviewed the bridge inspection reports from DOT, kind of came up with this conceptual plan and presented it to the DOT folks, kind of making sure it met the goals of what they were seeing, addressed the deficiencies that were noted. And they've offered some financial support, trying to be a good partner on behalf of the project. So they've offered, if this project goes forward, to provide glulam decking materials, the railing as well. And while it can't be promised, it's been at least mentioned that they could potentially provide their on-call contractor to install the glulam, install the railings, which would significantly lower costs for both towns. The remaining work, some of the substructure work, some of the approach guardrail would be shared equally by both towns. We obviously know this area isn't just used by vehicles. It's an important recreation area. And so we're trying to make sure that that can be maintained with this project. There would be some temporary construction impacts. The road would have to be closed during construction with a detour route. But we'd certainly, we view this as a way to maintain this structure, make sure that it continues to live on, and that we're trying to, you know, keep the benefit that this area has. And just to kind of summarize everything and touch on what we talked about, it's, as currently proposed, project is a rehabilitation. We're not trying to replace the Sherman's Bridge. The timber substructure elements would remain. The timber beams would remain with some localized repairs as needed. Bridge footprint would be maintained. And trying to accomplish the goal of keeping the aesthetics the same as well. We know that is important to folks. Not trying to propose a big steel bridge with concrete abutments here. We're trying to be sensitive to what's been there for years while also designing a project that is safe and reduces the maintenance need for both DPWs. Next, before we kind of turn it over to the group, Tom Holder from Wayland is just going to share some of the public emails that we've gotten for folks that haven't, aren't able to attend tonight. Great. Thank you, Mike. Again, my name is Tom Holder. I'm the Public Works Director for Wayland. And over the course of the weeks leading up to this forum, we received a handful of email remarks and comments, and I thought it would be appropriate to read through these. I know some of the folks that sent these in are here tonight and may also come up to the microphone later on, but I thought it best to read through some of these things so you have a good sense of what folks' thoughts are on it. So I'll read the name. If I have an address, I'll give that, and then I'll offer up their remarks. So starting it off, I've got Stephen Garanin, 39 Griscom Road in Sudbury. He is an avid kayaker of the river. The biggest issue that he witnesses is the high speeds in which regular vehicles and large vehicles, the large tractor trailer and 10-wheelers are speeding over the bridge. He would like both communities to consider installing speed humps or bumps on either side of the bridge to slow down traffic. Next would be Peter Viscuso from Weston. He's a Weston resident and cyclist that rides across the bridge four to five times per week. The rough, uneven wood beams of the bridge are dangerous to property and risky to the physical well-being of a cyclist. Maintaining the current uneven wood design of the aesthetic and historical value would be trading off aesthetics for safety, and that would be a big mistake. As someone who rides over the bridge frequently, I can say the current design is unsafe and a major accident is likely, even a fatality resulting from a crash on the bridge. Please make the bridge safe. Cover it with a smooth surface. Adam Scheivich, unknown address. I am an avid cyclist and ride across Sherman's Bridge about 50 times per year, often with other cyclists. By far, crossing Sherman's Bridge is the most dangerous part of those rides. The uneven planks toss our bikes around and reduce our control. It is always unnerving, but all the more so when cars are navigating the bridge at the same time. Then it is just plain scary. One of these days, the uneven planks on Sherman's Bridge are going to cause a terrible accident that could have been avoided by a smoother road surface. I appreciate that Sherman's Bridge may have historic value, but I strongly encourage Wayland to rebuild it nevertheless in a manner that prioritizes public safety. Bernie Weitzel, 33 Sherman's Bridge. The house I live in, which town records show the house was built in 1810, was the house where one of the Sherman family, who farmed the land in this area, actually lived. I have a strong interest in preserving the history and heritage of my home and the area I live in. I personally bike Sherman Bridge Road, adding myself to the hundreds who on weekends frequent our streets a few days a week. And while I'd like to see the bridge wood surface smoothed out, which I've read experts say can be done, I don't think it is a good idea to specifically pave the bridge surface. I say this simply because, given the unusable fact that a paved road will only increase the speed of all vehicles who drive Sherman Bridge and therefore not to be safe or put another way, the wood Sherman Bridge serves as a speed hump, which is a nice. Plus, I say this is a biker and a walker, which is why I also support the extension of the walkway on the north side of Sherman Bridge Road down to the river. Deborah Kruskal from 136 Lincoln Road. Ms. Kruskal talks about the historical and emotional value and the safety needs. The bridge must be amplified, not diminished. By paving the bridge as a continuation of the roads leading up to it, it loses most of its identity. There should be signage designating notating its past, the origin it was built, used by Native Americans, and ties to the Sherman family. It has a picturesque rural identity. It is integrated with the great meadows, wildlife, the scenic rivers, and consistent with our designated scenic roads. Allowing traffic to continue at higher, smoother speeds endangers the bikers, fishermen, pedestrians, bird viewers, and those simply connecting with nature. We'd like state reps to get involved with MASDOT to consider a weight and speed restriction for the bridge. Dennis Mortimer from 85 Lincoln Road. We have been living at 85 Lincoln Road in Sudbury since 1997. We are 0.4 miles from Sherman's Bridge. Our sons went to Lincoln Sudbury Regional High School and for decades used Sherman's Bridge for everything from boating, fishing, and bird watching to stargazing, eclipse watching, and sunsets. We frequently hear the revving of vehicle engines as they leave the wooden bridge and accelerate onto Lincoln Road's asphalt. I dread any alterations to Sherman's Bridge that would risk or encourage continuous speeding from both directions. On our current Sherman's Bridge vehicle travels, you can actually and safely slow down and sneak a peek at the river environment or the setting sun. I doubt that it will still be a safe option with increased speeds projected on the new surface. I'm not resistant or opposed to progress, but if we continue to ignore history and beauty for the sake of progress, we eventually lose. Please consider carefully. I hope the next generation of families living here surrounded by this natural beauty will enjoy a historically accurate Sherman's Bridge. Jan Hardenberg, unknown address. From my point of view, the problem to be solved is maintainability and environmental protection. I think we should keep the bridge as is while solving the decking problem. Glulam seems fine, but paving it seems fraught with environmental ills. There is detritus from the paving process and then the pavement deteriorates over the decades and that will go into the river. There must be other treatments for a wooden bridge. Wooden bridges used to have metal plates where the tires ran. I would put down a fiberglass rubber silicon sheet and then some sort of metal grating over that. It prevents spills, keeps the rubber sheet intact, and provides durability. Next is Ellen Freeman Roth from Weston. In theory, Sherman's Bridge, an older structure on a country road, is an asset. In reality, Sherman's Bridge is a danger. For cyclists, crossing Sherman's Bridge is not just unpleasant, it's one of the worst and sometimes scariest parts of any ride, especially when vehicles are nearby and we're trying to ride without being thrown off the bike or getting a flat tire. We've tried riding slowly, we've tried riding quickly, but there's no remedy for the bone-jarring equipment eating experience. I've learned that being a steward of the land, while considering people's safety and needs, can require compromise and creativity. I hope the towns will improve the bridge for the sake of all who travel across it and for the environment. Next is Mark Goldberg, unknown address. I am an avid cyclist and ride across Sherman's Bridge two to three times per week in the early morning. The bridge is, and for some time has been, extremely dangerous. The forces caused by bumping across the bridge cause damage and wear and tear, particularly to carbon bicycle wheels and frames. Numerous riders in our group have had cracked carbon components from crossing the bridge. This is both an expense and a safety issue. In order to try and find the smoothest path across the bridge, cyclists typically veer across the bridge, which creates a safety issue for cyclists and drivers. It is also common for cars to accelerate past bicycles as they try to make it across. Sherman's Bridge remains one of the most treacherous passes on the local roads. Unfortunately, it is virtually unavoidable for certain routes. This section of roadway is an accident waiting to happen. I hope it does not take a serious crash or worse to do the right thing and make this segment of road safe for all. Bob Hockett, unknown address. The rough timber planks are very dangerous. I have seen people break spokes and even wheels and worse, fall hard when hitting this ridiculous bridge. Whatever you do, people will still ride it as it is a key biking route. To maintain character, you could put in smoother wood planks. If speed is still an issue, put in a speed hump on each side. Please don't wait until someone has a fatal accident to fix this bridge. And then we have Doug Stotts. Presented documentation and letters talking about the historical components of the bridge. Objects to the asphalt wearing surface and steel guardrails. Open to alternative wearing surfaces that can be made to look like wood and modified steel guardrails designed or treated to blend better with the environment. Suggests adding a second walkway on the opposite side of the road that could be funded by CPA funds. Inclusion of bike lanes or following a complete street's principles on length of Sherman's bridge, if feasible. Also proposed a traffic calming measure, such as painting the pavement at both ends of the bridge, adding slow on the pavement approach. There used to be a two and a half ton weight limit sign that has since been removed. Next is Mel Stolar. Oh, by the way, Doug Stotts is a Sherman Road, Sherman Bridge Road resident. Mel Stolar, unknown address. I cycle with Mark Goldberg, who shared his recent comments with you about fixing the bridge for safety for all of us who depend on it for commutes and social rides. Please include me as a strong supporter for the safety improvements. Each and every time I ride over it, I worry about my safety and the damage that may be done to my frame and wheels. And then lastly, we have Tom Largy, who's a member of the Wayland Surface Water Quality Committee and is a Wayland resident. The documents don't address at all the issue of public access to the Sudbury River, since there is a current boat launch at Sherman's bridge heavily used by both car top and trailered boats. There is no mention of whether the launch will be removed or made less usable. For over 50 years, I've used the Sherman Bridge launch myself for both types of boats, including several times a summer. When the Pelham Island Road Bridge was replaced a number of years ago, what was lost was an informal car top boat area, which made it more difficult to reach the river upstream. On the other hand, the Route 20 bridge repair did include an upgrade of the launch area. There is also an informal launch site on the United States Fish and Wildlife property off of Water Row. If the Sherman's Bridge launch site went away, it would be a disastrous blow to public access to the Sudbury River. One out of three launch sites on the river would be lost. The next possible launch area is several miles downstream in Lincoln. That launch area has a very long carry to it, dug trench to the river. Sometimes at my age at 85, I couldn't do this. I have observed that there are frequently several vehicles at one time parked at Sherman's Bridge, especially during the warmer months, meaning that there might be a dozen or more uses of the area in one day. Although recreational boaters who rely on launching at one area and taking out Sherman's Bridge would lose that capability. I've done the same thing myself since I row a John boat and it's a long row back upstream. I have observed United States Fish and Wildlife launching a trailer boat at Sherman's Bridge as well. There is also the social issue of the public tending not to pay much attention to a conservation and recreational asset like the Sudbury River that they can't use and get access to. So that concludes what we received via email and some phone calls from residents as we were preparing for the forum. So at this point in time, I mean, these are a matter of record for the forum, but we're now encouraging folks who are attending tonight to, if you've got comments, remarks, questions, feel free to kind of arrange yourself. As Nicole had said earlier, step up to the microphone. So those that are watching right now at home or will be watching a recorded portion of the meeting will be able to hear you. So it looks like this gentleman and I guess I can call on people as you raise your hand if that makes things a bit more organized. Sir? I'm Tom Sciacca and I'm Wayland's representative to the River Stewardship Council. I have been for 25 years. Here's my elevator speech. In 1999, 29 miles of the Sudbury Aspen Concord Rivers were designated as wild and scenic by Act of Congress, signed into law by President Bill Clinton under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act of 1968. They were recognized for five outstandingly remarkable values which the River Council, which is a volunteer arm of the National Park Service, is protecting. And we might have regulatory authority over this project, by the way. Our National Park Service staff person prior to the shutdown chatted with us about this and we might have Section 7 authority over it. There are two outstandingly remarkable values that appear relevant to this project. One is scenery and the other is history. Scenery is a value common to most or all wild and scenic rivers. History is fairly unusual, but we have a very historic river and the bridge clearly represents both of those values. So, I'm interested to see the details. First reaction is it's hard to see how asphalt is consistent with a scenic historic structure. The treatment of the steel is interesting. Again, first reaction was it's not, again, appropriate for a wild and scenic structure. But you're offering to paint it to blend in? Well, I'd like to hear more about that, especially how long the paint will last and how it will be maintained. And then I'd like to get some pictures of it so we can run it by the river council. And I'm interested in hearing the reactions of others. Thanks. Another Tom. I'm Tom Largy from Wayland. We'll be here 54 years this coming November. My estimate is I've been on the Sudbury River way over 100 times. I don't watch birds. I catch fish. So, I've got a Sudbury River album here. I showed several people. Lots of fish. Anybody who's interested can ask to see them. But, anyway, you know, I was out to Washington State in June on a fishing trip out to Montana a couple of years ago on a fishing trip up Maine, New Hampshire. And a consistent problem is public access on things like rivers, ponds, lakes. And they just seem to get forgotten or pushed away. Part of the problem is that the public access is frequently just kind of there. It's maybe public land. It may be private land. It's just awfully hard to say. But the land is frequently not available. Sometimes when access is put in, things get much more difficult. As an example, I might also fish Weldon Pond and find that it's closed in November when the water's cold and the trout are biting. So, anyway, in regards to Sherman Bridge, my message is please at least conserve what's there and, if possible, enhance it for boating access. My name is Tom Cooper. I live at 66 Sherman Bridge Road. And I would describe that as within hearing distance of the bridge. Because when people visit us and the doors open in the summer, they go, what's that noise? Every time a car goes over. So, I think noise is the biggest issue. I personally have. I see the TEC plan would certainly reduce it. As to whether it should be asphalt or some other material, I don't have a strong view. But as long as it reduces the noise. Another question I have is, TEC was involved just a few years ago when there was a brief consideration of substantial repairs to the bridge and replacing the surface. And at that time, that design would have completely closed access to the sidewalk because of railings that were being proposed. And I can't tell from that photo that was showed earlier whether there's still access to the sidewalk. To me, that would be essential. Sure. This rendering? Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. So, fantastic point. Answer it with the benefit of the railing at the curb line would help protect folks on the walkway sidewalk. And what we'd look into making sure that folks can still get to that without having to crawl over the bridge rail would be working on a path that would get from the north side of the wayland approach from the boat ramp that would get you onto the walkway. Another question I had about the design was, this shows a large railing between the sidewalk surface and the road surface. Today, there is none. There hasn't been as long as I've lived there, which has been since around 2010 or 2000. And I'm not sure why it's necessary. A lot of people, you know, will step off of there and walk along the road surface and walk to the other side and look over the other railing. So, I would question why there needs to be a railing there at all. One of the things I wonder is, is there data, has someone gathered data about whether there have been injuries to pedestrians caused by cars on the bridge? And whether anyone's investigated, to what extent a railing like that would have prevented it. Several people have talked about protecting pedestrians, that that's the purpose of the railing. But I don't know if there's really a hazard because I'm not aware of anyone ever getting injured because of a contact between an automobile and a pedestrian who is using the sidewalk. Several people have mentioned speed. I agree, speed is a big problem because people go way too fast over the bridge. Whatever's done, there really needs to be ways of preventing cars from going too fast. One question I have also is, is there any data about the users, the drivers that use the bridge? How many of them either live in Sudbury or live in Lincoln and go from Lincoln to Lincoln-Sudbury High School? I'm just wondering about those percentages. I see the cost is proposed to be borne equally between the two towns. Although my suspicion is Sudbury gets way more benefit out of the presence of a bridge there. And the last point, maybe the most important one, is that this bridge has two different names. It's called Sherman Bridge, and it's called Sherman's Bridge. And I wish we could conform those, and I have a preference. I think Sherman Bridge is a better choice. So I'm not sure how we're going to resolve that. It might be the most difficult issue. Sure. Thank you. A bunch of points. The one that I'll touch on the most is, I'm not sure about data of incidents with cars and pedestrians. But as an engineer, if we're doing any type of maintenance, we need to design things that are compliant. And in order to try to maintain the timber aesthetic of the railing, the crash-tested timber railing system that I can find that's been, that is crash-tested and approved, utilizes the glulam deck. And that glulam deck would end more or less at the curb line, and that's where the location of that timber railing would have to be right above it. So it's just where the glulam is, is where the railing would have to go as well, which is why it would go at the curb line. Similarly, if the curb is mountable by cars, we view that as a potential safety risk. So kind of finding the benefit of utilizing a crash-tested system on the bridge that also would now give a dedicated pedestrian space on the structure. I'm not sure about the differentiation of traffic going east or west on the structure. We have some traffic counts that we can look through and get a better answer for you on that as well. Sure. Yeah, I think it would be very difficult to make a determination as to, you know, who's using the bridge, whether they're Wayland, Sudbury residents. Having performed a bunch of bridge projects throughout my career, I think we can probably safely say that, you know, both towns have an equal benefit to having the bridge there. You know, so I think having an equal share of the costs is a practical and proper thing to do. Hi. Henry White, 56 Lincoln Road in Sudbury and an abutter to the bridge. I can't hear you. Oh, sorry. Henry White. Henry White, 56 Lincoln Road in Sudbury and an abutter. First, I'd like to hear a little bit about if you've looked at alternatives to the asphalt surfacing. I understand the glulam, but whether, in fact, whether they're manufactured wood, because there are such a broad variety now available, that could keep potentially a wood surface to protect the glulams rather than using asphalt. Second, I'd want to hear a little bit more about the walkways and their width and what are your materials you're going to be using on the guard, the bannisters, because it's hard to tell from whether that's going to continue to be wood or what form of wood. It would continue to stay wood. Oh. And a similar design to what's... Correct. Yeah. Some slight differences to bring it to current standards, but yes. And I just want to support the discussion about the traffic and traffic speed on the bridge, you know, because it's already... I think it does slow people down, and so it's serving as an informal speed bump, but I think... And that's a general issue on Sherman Bridge and Lincoln Road in both directions. Sherman Bridge does not have... I mean, I think there's a much more dangerous place for bicycles, which is there's a section that is barely wide enough for two cars as you go up the hill toward Wayland. And so I think there needs to be a way to make sure that car speeds are reduced across the whole section, you know, whether it's a series of speed bumps like Gleason Lane or some variety to at least make sure that we're accommodating everybody. And finally, I just wanted to ascertain whether the walkway is going to be handicapped accessible so that people from the boat launch area can park their car and get on the walkway, because right now it isn't. Thank you. Sure. A few things there. Intent would be to make everything ADA accessible. And there'd be a slight reduction in width on that sidewalk versus what's out there today with the kind of wider cross-tested rail for vehicles, but would still be ADA compliant width-wise. You mentioned speed, and I'm not a traffic expert or speed expert, but I have Kevin Dandrade from TEC as well that kind of here to help support and kind of speak to some of the speed questions. Some of the speed questions that you have. So I'll bring Kev up. Thanks. Thanks, Mike. Welcome, everyone. It's great to see a large crowd. So my focus area is traffic engineering. So I've worked, had the benefit of working in the town of Weyland and more recently in the town of Sudbury for the past 20 years. Different roads, different parts of town. What we see based on data that we've collected, and it's also been complemented by what the Weyland PD has put out there, is that there is speeding in different sections of Sherman Bridge Road and Lincoln Road. With the data points that we collected on two different points, one was during summer season, one was during the later fall, I believe it was November. We see very consistent traffic volumes, the number of cars that pass over the bridge. It's right around 1,900 vehicles per day. You see a spike in the morning commuter hours. You see another spike but lower in the afternoon and early evening with whether it might be related to school dismissal periods for Lincoln Sudbury High School or the early evening commuter hour. As you probably have all experienced, it has a lot to do with whatever's going on in 117 or 27 or 20. But what we've seen is it's pretty consistent for the number of cars. In fact, as far as some of the data points, overall on an average day, as of November 12th of 24, so just about a year ago, it was 1,987 vehicles over the course of the day, 1,253 that were going northeast towards Weyland, and 734 that were heading towards Sudbury. You know, what I've seen as I've been working in the towns is that any congestion on 117 or 27 and the fact that most of us are using this device to try to get from A to B, that can influence travel trends. During the commuter hours or even off peak, and we've spent some time out there not just looking at data but experiencing it. I was out there again last week. There are speed characteristics that vary depending on the point of each roadway. For better or worse, on either side of the bridge, there are these fairly aggressive horizontal curves in the road that are rated for about 30 miles per hour. The data point that we collected shows that it's between 29 and 31, so it matches pretty well with that immediately adjacent to the bridge. Once you get further away from the bridge and you get on some of those straightaways on either side, Weyland or Sudbury, those volumes pick up. There was that somewhat recently introduced always stop Sherman's bridge in Oxborough, but even in between those points, cars can accelerate because it's a little bit more comfortable on the straightaways. But with the curves, that's the biggest thing that manages those speeds today. And yes, they may be at times going too fast over the bridge. But with the rehabilitation of the bridge with either a smoother wood surface or an asphalt surface, either case, it would be smoother. And the gentleman that was complaining about noise, it should be quieter as well. But there are different surface characteristics. But once they're smooth, they're going to have very similar characteristics. But because they're limited by the horizontal curves on either side, that's really the biggest thing that influences kind of the moderating of the speeds of the bridge that it's with whatever is done here, it's not going to go much different higher or lower. But what I will say, and it's important to see this image, that with the crash tested barrier, and I think Mike said it well, whenever the DPWs or we as engineers have to look at things, we have to make sure it's safe for the public good. The motorists that are using it, the bikers, the walkers. So things like crash tested rail are very important to keep somebody from going off the bridge. So the primary reason of something like that is keeping motor vehicles on the road, on the bridge. But the other benefit of that, as Michael mentioned, is that it now creates that protected barrier that has a hopefully safer experience for those that are fishing or bird washing or whatever they're doing on the backside. And when I was out there last week, I experienced a couple of vehicles that went by at a higher rate of speed. But because I'm not separated by a rail, even though you're in a different space and you're up about six inches, it's still not comfortable. Right. So if you had a barrier like that, it's going to improve that experience as a non motorized user, but also visually that being on the edge of the road is going to have a constricting factor for the roadway itself. So it's going to visually feel tighter, which should moderate speed slightly. It's not something that whether you visually constrict it or you add roadway striping, it might mean a couple miles per hour. But no matter what we do for the surface, I expect the speed characteristics to be similar. So we've got some data points to talk to speed, to talk to volume of traffic. They're all very consistent in this area. And one of the folks out here had done a deeper dive on some of that for the distribution of traffic over the day. And I feel like we should hire him as a traffic engineer because it was very thorough, very accurate. But what it talks to is that there's different trends over the course of the day. I'm confident that after the rehabilitation, it is going to make it safer, which is our primary goal. And it is going to make it easier to maintain. But as that other benefit of keeping the boat access open, making sure that we don't compromise those areas that people use for parking and or backing up their boat ramp, the boat trailers. But having an experience that keeps the aesthetic but makes it safer for those to be able to watch and observe or fish with some level of increased comfort is one of those extra benefits of the project. Thank you. I just wanted to take a moment to speak to two points that the previous speaker had asked about. We've been working very closely with MassDOT relative to this project, the design, the proposal, and they strongly support and encourage and just about requiring that we put a wearing surface over the glue lamp. It's been said by them that the expected life without the asphalt would be about 20 years. The expected life with asphalt would be 40. So, in essence, we're doubling the life expectancy of this project. And for those that want to preserve the historic nature of the bridge, by having that 40-year lifespan, it means that you don't have to come back in 20 years and have discussions on how the bridge is going to look. It'll look the way we're going to do it in 2026 for 40 years. It was also asked, have we considered other alternatives to asphalt? And one thing that we are researching, and it looks promising, I've spoken about it before, is imprint technology. I used it successfully in Framingham, used it successfully in Wayland. We can actually use an imprint technology whereby the asphalt actually looks like wooden timber. We have a rendering in the back of the room, so I would encourage folks. I think it's the bottom photograph of the board on the right that shows what that would likely look like. We have a vendor that works with us in Wayland currently that is very supportive, thinks it's quite likely that we could do something similar to what you see there. And it would help detract from what I call the runway look to a paving operation. Hi, I'm Elisa. I live on Sherman's Bridge Road, probably the section that sees the greatest speed. And in fact, in 2023, there was a traffic study done too, over two periods of time. And one of them was based, I guess they were measuring right from my house. And 95% of people went above the speed limit. And the speed limit is currently 25 miles an hour on a narrow road with no sidewalks whatsoever, often hillsides or trees right at the road. So, really bad place for bicyclists. Just, I'm sure they've experienced really hard for pedestrians. And even hard for me, you know, I'm a little scared when I go out to get my mail. Because I'm in the fastest zone, you know. And I see people going, well, first of all, I'm like 10 houses back from Concord Road, 126. And during rush hour, traffic is backed up past my house. That's how bad it is. Because people are cutting through, instead of using 117 or 20, via this bridge. Now, oops. Phone call. Sorry about that. Where was I? Okay. Oh, I lost my... Okay. Anyway. So, speed is a problem in that area in general. It's 25 mile an hour without speed bumps, does nothing. This is a very rural area, a rural feel area, residential only. Narrow streets, no sidewalks. And, you know, and it's a rural historic kind of bridge. I mean, it's very historic, although it was rebuilt. But it was rebuilt in a way that had to accommodate larger cars, because it's a bridge for cars. And, but it looks like a, you know, New England wooden bridge. And there was a gentleman, let me see if I can find this folder. Yeah, here it is. So, there was a gentleman in Waltham from the Board of Public Works who commented and raised his concern about the absence of a weight limit sign on Sherman Bridge. And the BOPW agreed that Lewis should confer with the Board of Selectmen since signage is their responsibility as traffic commissioners. There should be a weight limit on a bridge like this. We are getting huge trucks with trailers coming over a scenic, you know, in a scenic area. This is not a highway. You know, this is a scenic area, all residential. And people are using this bridge as if it were a truck route, which it is not. It is not. I just wonder if five years ago they put those signs up, how much less damage there would be now. Or even a sign prohibiting trucks with trailers or over a certain weight. And occasionally have police out there checking and, you know, issuing tickets. And the same on, on my road. If they found that people are, on average, going 40 miles an hour on a 25 mile an hour road, that's narrower than most roads, and doesn't have space on either side for a pedestrian to get out of the way for most of the road, why didn't they lower the speed limit? Or why didn't they have speed bumps put in? Why, you know, why was nothing done? So getting back to the bridge, one of the emails that you referred to from Doug Stoltz actually had a very large 61-page attachment. And at the end of that attachment, he mentions that there's information from the guidelines for design, installation, and maintenance of a waterproof-wearing surface for timber bridge decks. From the University of Wisconsin Forest Products Laboratory from 2001. And they mentioned that, specifically, because of the different, yeah, the different layers, the different substance that these things are. The wood and the asphalt. And what is this stuff on the top here? Is it that asphalt? You just have another name for it, yeah. They don't necessarily stick together. And they, because asphalt and wood behave differently. So the wood can breathe, and it can expand and contract, and that can affect the asphalt, particularly in places where they're connected. And so you're gonna have wear and tear in this New England weather. So you're not gonna be seeing a bridge that's not gonna need repairs for the next 40 years. You're gonna need, see a bridge that needs regular, consistent repairs, you know, constantly. And you're gonna have more people speeding over that bridge. They're already speeding. And they're speeding on a rough road. The nice thing about a wooden bridge is you have to slow down. And because people slow down, and it's historic, then they're not gonna go flying off, and it's not that long. They're not gonna go flying off and having an accident and needing to have metal up there for 250, 400 years, 300 years. Incredibly long number of years. There's been a bridge there. And I've never heard of any vehicle crashing off the side. Granted, I haven't read 300 years of history. Maybe there was a horse and carriage at some point. But certainly since it was built, they didn't rebuild any railings, so no car went through that. Personally, I like to go down there and meet my friend from Sudbury and look at the Northern Lights. Just bring my friends down to, you know, from my house, walk down risking our lives on that road to see the beauty that's there, the nature that's there. This is like a nature preserve. It's a, it's a scenic area. It's not a commuter's road. So I don't see any reason to cater to people who are avoiding highways by using this to commute on. Which you know they're doing because you're not getting the same number of cars going back in the evening. They're all avoiding the, you know, the truck route of 117 and 20 by cutting through the neighborhood. And they're cutting through a very quiet neighborhood with teeny streets. And so I don't, I don't think that, it says particularly about the problems with wood and asphalt together. Routine maintenance needs to be performed if you're going to ensure the integrity of the asphalt wearing surface and its protective qualities. As with asphalt surface roads, distress will occur with time as a result of vehicle loadings and environmental effects. So again, a weight limit is really important. And also, and there was a suggestion that maybe you can make it a little less wearing if we replace the wood with native wood that is diagonal. So that actually each vehicle is not putting full weight on one beam with more than one tire at a time because it'll go at different times across it. So there are other ways to do this. I don't know what MassDOT's deal is with coming and saying you got to do this now. We'll offer this, you know, material. But they're also trying to get a jet airport opened up in Bedford. And they're behind that. So maybe it's a way of them having, you know, trying to get influence. But we should not feel rushed to do this. We should feel rushed to put up a weight limit and some speed signs. And nobody has ever, as I know, have been hit on a bicycle or a pedestrian on this road. People can walk their bicycles across this beautiful scenic road. And they want to make the walkway narrower. The pathway that you can walk on, the sidewalk, they want to go from four to three feet. Ma'am, thank you very much for your comment. Thank you for all that. A couple of things, not to omit any things, but just a couple of things I wrote down. First of which, the question about asphalt quality on top of timber. Have the same references. And the asphalt is very highly suggested to help protect the glulam. Have reached out to MassDOT District 3, which is the district that both Whale and Sudbury are in. Asked for example projects where asphalt is used on timber. And have a bridge inspection report from a bridge in South Borough. Where very similar structure type. Timber deck. Asphalt on top. Built in 2009. And there's been no maintenance required. The asphalt's in great shape. The deck condition on the inspection report's rated an eight. Which, as a bridge engineer, brand new structures barely get eights. So that's like incredibly great on a zero to nine scale. So it's been very successful in other places nearby. At least a super structure replacement. So new deck. New wearing surface in 2009. I'm not sure about the other elements. So. I don't believe so. It's over a railroad. Over a railroad. So. Yeah. Over a railroad. Sorry. Very. I don't have all that exact data. It's a different project. But. Sure. Ma'am, can you go? Would you like me to bring it too so that the people at home can hear your comments or questions? Okay. Thank you. Sure. And just to touch on speed quickly. I understand some issues potentially away from the bridge. Just to kind of reiterate what Kev would say. Is at the bridge crossing itself, kind of the curves coming into it would dictate speed over the structure. And other things beyond the bridge crossing would kind of be outside of the purview of this project. So. Sure. Sorry. Same deal with it. Yeah. I'm sorry to do this. If you want, I can bring the mics over to you. But we have people viewing at home. So it's helpful for them if you either walk to the mic or raise your hand. I'll bring a mic to you. Thank you. Thanks. Steve Miro, Red Bond Road in Weyland. I live less than a mile from the bridge. And I've lived in Weyland since 1981. I have several comments. Note that both Shermans Bridge Road and Lincoln Road are both scenic roads in their respective towns. And I think changing the bridge to look like this is kind of violating the spirit, if not the letter, of the scenic roads bylaws. So I would strongly, I would suggest, in my opinion, I'm for keeping the bridge in its current form. And I think that's partially what makes Weyland, Weyland, and Sudbury, Sudbury, some of the historic features of the towns. It's for the same reasons why we still have covered bridges in New England. Or for that matter, the USS Constitution. No one's keeping that in decent shape because of the cost benefits. It's partly the history. I think one of the things that would help the bridge a lot, and both safety and longevity, would be controlling the speeds to 15 miles per hour. Which could be done via signs and possibly speed bumps on both sides of the bridge. It would make it safer for the cars, bicyclists, and pedestrians. And I would think it would. I suspect that some of the wear and tear on the bridge decking is because of the excess speeds. Which I've seen cars over there a lot that I think they're going over 40 miles per hour quite frequently. I know there have been a lot of comments from bicyclists about the bridge. And this is not going to win me too many friends. But, well, I used to be an avid bicyclist. I biked across the United States twice, so I guess I would fit in that category. And I've been over the bridge hundreds of times. And I've walked my bike over the bridge many times as well. There's a walkway there. And it's not the most dangerous spot on Lincoln Road or Sherman's Bridge Road. So I would vote for just walk your bike if you're worried about the safety on it. But having a lower speed would make it safer also. I would also like to ask about, wouldn't, since it's not a full rebuild, what's the total weight of the asphalt? Because wouldn't that put more load on the substructure of the bridge? It would seem like that might cause more, you might need more repairs underneath the bridge in the future with the weight of the asphalt. 34 tons? Okay. I don't want to interrupt you, but sometimes we lose the amount of questions I want to address some as we go. The weight one I can speak to roughly would add about 1.5 tons per pile. And we estimate from the existing bridge plans, boring logs, that capacity per pile is around 40 tons. So it's a fairly negligible increase in overall weight. There's currently no signs of settlement in those piles. So structurally we feel that it's a, while, yes, there is an increase in overall dead load on the structure, it's negligible from a structural point of view. What would be the impact if the speed was lowered to 15 miles per hour and it was, Bill, how would that, can you speak to how that would impact the longevity on the bridge? I can't speak to it. It wouldn't be on TEC to enforce speed limits, so I don't want to promise anything on that front. I'm not sure that the impacts of reduced speed and longevity. I can speak to the maintenance struggles that both DVWs go through in replacing these decking boards. And just the general upkeep and maintenance is just not very sustainable from the DPW point of view out there. Okay, because we've, I mean, the bridge has been there for 1743. So obviously there weren't cars then, but it's, somehow they've found a way to manage it over all these years. Sure. Okay. One last point I would like to make is, with the added railing next to the walkway and decreasing the walkway width by a foot, if you go there in the summer, you'll often see people fishing over the bridge. There'll be bicyclists leaning their bikes, you know, stopping to look out over the river, and their bikes are leaned against the outer railing of the bridge. I think it'll feel very hemmed in if just going from five feet to four feet with the addition of the railing as well, especially if you're looking across the river to the south side. And if you have people that are crossing the bridge, as well as people that are loitering on the bridge to, you know, to sightsee or birdwatch or whatever, it will just have kind of a hemmed in feeling, I think. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. So we really appreciate the feedback that we're receiving, and it's getting, we only had the room for so long, so I just want to ask if you could keep your questions kind of brief, and we will get back to the questions. And if you have comments, we definitely appreciate it, and we want to hear from you. So please. I'm Rebecca Devine. I'm at Hereford Road, which, for those of you that don't know, is at the end of Alpine Road. It's a family property. It's been in my family since 1944, so I've been here my entire life. My father and my family has grown up on the bridge, on the river, so we have a long history. I appreciate the nature of the wood structure. That being said, I do not appreciate the sound of the bridge. It comes right up the river to my house. It is not pleasant. People that think it is, I'm sorry. It's people work in my yard and go, what is that noise? The maintenance has been atrocious since this bridge was built back in 1991, when it was shut down for two years that I couldn't get to see my grandmother for. We all said, what are we doing with the wood structure? I appreciate the technology's advanced. I am for this plan, mostly because we as a town cannot afford to take out another project and not get assistance from the state. Our funding in Wayland is out of control. We have massive bills coming due for the PFAS and the MWRA connection, the lead pipe removal, paying for people that we've hired and fired in this town. Our budget cannot afford to pass up this opportunity to have MassDOT take on some of this. I think your rendering with the impression of the wood on the bridge is a great adjustment to try to keep people happy. The structure is going to stay the same from the river. It's going to look the same. As a note, this is not a historical bridge. The original bridge did not have a walkway for pedestrians. So the fact that we have one now is a difference. You have to progress. I think the safety railing will help slow down people because, again, you're going to have it next to your mirror. I understand that the people drive way too fast on the road. I've been there forever. You're not going to fix that by keeping the bridge falling apart. You have to do something else, whether we get the police department involved and we ask for more stuff. The stop sign has certainly helped, but you can't keep the bridge falling apart to try to slow people down. And please do not pass up the opportunity of the funds from MassDOT. It is too important for the town right now. Thank you. Thanks. Hi. I'm Susan Kaufman. I'm at 66 Sherman Bridge Road. I'm one of the three families that are closest to Sherman Bridge. I see my neighbors that are next to me here also. I disagree with my husband. I don't mind the noise of the bridge at all. And that's how it goes. For everybody who hates it, there's someone who loves it. One day there was a knock on my door, and it was a truck driver. And he was driving a gigantic 38 wheel, whatever those very big things are called. Sure. And he said, what is the weight limit on the bridge? And I said, I have no idea. He said, well, where is the sign? I'll go read it. Well, there is no sign. And since I moved there, since we built our house in 2001, there hasn't been a sign. And he, I offered to have him call Town Hall and ask them or the police, but he instead backed his 900 wheel vehicle backwards up Sherman Bridge Road around the curb and off. A weight limit would be helpful. A small weight limit would be very helpful. I have a concern based on something you said. You commented that the reason why we have to have the guardrail is when you redesign something, you have to meet, you have to comply. You have to meet compliance standards. The last time, sometime I think in the 90s, I think, or the mid 200s, 2000s, the last time people were talking in Wayland about redoing the bridge, we were told that the bridge needed to be wider because it didn't meet current Massachusetts standards. We were told that by the DPW director at the time. And we were told that in order to, it had to be 30 feet wide. It had to be steel. And because of that, we would have to take the curves out of Sherman Bridge and whatever the road on the other side, Sudbury Road. We'd have to take those curves out. Lincoln Road. Lincoln. Yeah. I'm on the Sherman Bridge side. So I'm worried that if you are talking about needing to be in compliance, is that a sub-Rosa way of saying that the rest of Sherman Bridge and the rest of Lincoln Road are going to be changed, are going to be widened, are going to be straightened, are going to be things that I don't think any of us really want. If you're interested in the bridge, the bridge's evolution. Someone said, oh, this isn't the bridge that was built way back then. That's true. It is not the bridge that was built back in 1743. If you want to see that bridge, go underneath Sherman Bridge. Go down the boat ramp and go underneath where the abutment is. And you can see in low water times, pilings from several previous reconstructions of that bridge. All the way back to a place near the Sudbury side, where you can see what look like tree limbs, except they're very evenly spaced here and here, the width of a horse and rider. And beyond that, there's another one that was probably the width of a carriage. And beyond that, there are some other pilings, cutoffs. But you can see them when the water is low enough, lined up neatly. And now the current pilings. The history of that bridge is underneath it. And the more we make the top not look historic, the more we lose that history. Sure. I don't want to cut you off. I just see some folks behind you and I'm... Yes, as I stood and waited. But lucky for you, that was it. Sure. The question I heard or point I'd just like to address, I... There's no intention to widen the approach roads, straighten them out. The bridge preservation project is what we're trying to look at and help maintain the bridge on behalf of both towns. So, thanks. Hello. Can you hear me? I can. Good. First time. I just wanted to address some of the comments that were made about cycling safety on the bridge. To me, this looks much more frightening from a cyclist's point of view. I live on Sherman's Bridge Road, not too far from the river. And I bicycle over the bridge all the time in the summer and the spring. And it's... I don't... I heard a plethora of comments about how dangerous it was to bicycle over that bridge, which I totally don't understand. I mean, slow down a little. Look where you're going. It's really not dangerous. I don't know what kind of bicycles these people are using that will fall apart from driving over Sherman's Bridge. But it's like, in that case, walk your bike over the bridge. It's a very short bridge. But in this case, it looks like you'd be bicycling crowded up against a rail with cars going by on a nice, smooth asphalt surface. This looks like a sluice. You know, it looks like, wow, what a great place to speed your car. And I also, in terms of cycling safety, I'm concerned about the fact that, like, you're depending on the dangerous curves and hills on either side of the bridge to mitigate the speed. When you're cycling, like, you might be safe on that bridge or walking. I walk on that road, too, very often. I live right there, and it's where I can walk in both directions on Sherman's Bridge. It's very narrow, and there's no place. The size of the road cried right up. There's no sidewalk. And everywhere else on Sherman's Bridge Road and Lincoln Road, it's quite dangerous to walk around some of the curves or to bicycle. And yet, only on the bridge cars can speed by. I mean, I think if you're depending on curves around the bridge to be safe. Like, anyone who's walking or bicycling or driving on that road, after they go over the bridge, they're on the dangerous parts that are mitigating speed. And I just don't see the advantage of making a narrow, smooth way where cars can speed down the road. I can hear the sound of the bridge rumbling, too, from my house, and it doesn't bother me either. I know that some people are very disturbed by it. In some ways, when you're walking or bicycling, it lets you know when someone's coming or going. You can hear it from a distance when you're on those blind curves. And the other question I had about the water quality, which I think is very important. It doesn't sound like, from some of the data that was distributed on the information packets, it doesn't sound like it's a massive impact on the river water quality anyway. But having an asphalt surface does seem like it's going to be loaded with salt, as the bridge probably is, too. But when it crumbles and falls apart and when the water comes up over the bridge, it definitely seems like it's going to impact water quality more adversely than some other possibilities. I think some kind of surface or new, I'm not opposed to progress and new substances, if there are some other things than glulam with asphalt or painted, you know. I think making it look like wood and still have it be poisonous asphalt doesn't really help the water quality issue. And I just had one other question too, is like, is it true that asphalt is really that more durable than wood? Because since I've been living on Sherman's Bridge Road, it's been paved a couple of times. And, you know, within a year, it's full of potholes and crumpled asphalt. And my house has potholes. I can hear the house shaking every time trucks go by. And by the way, semis do go over that bridge quite often. I've seen them rumbling over that bridge. And I also wonder, like, if there's damage on the bridge, maybe that's why. But I'm wondering, is the asphalt really not going to need maintenance as often as the wood? Because it does on the asphalt part of the road. It does on the road, regular road surface. So it probably went on the bridge too. And I'll end it here. Okay. Thank you. To speak to the last one, I think it'd be viewed as a asphalt to help protect the investment of the glulam deck, the work that we do down on the substructure level, just to help protect all those timber elements and just help better serve those structural features is really the intent. So please don't. Thank you. I thought I just might take a moment to address one of the last questions the previous speaker asked about environmental impacts to having a wood deck versus having an asphalt deck. We have been working with both the Wayland and the Sudbury Conservation Commission, both of the agents, and which we will be filing a notice of intent with each of the communities as part of this project. And they are both very supportive and encouraged with the proposal that we have and the fact that it will prevent water from cascading down from vehicles through the wood into the river. There's a system where that water will be conveyed. It'll be pre-treated with catch basins, with best management practice included in it, with rip-wrap discharge down some outfalls. So I wanted to let folks know that we have been looking at this and we have both of the Conservation Commission's support with the proposal that you see before you tonight. Hi, my name's Jim Corbett. I'm from 72 Sherman Bridge Road. I've lived there for 30 years. If you could speak a little closer. The bridge has been underwater twice since I've lived on Sherman Bridge Road. That's one thing I'm worried about, how it would affect this. The other thing is, since I've lived there, the crest of the bridge has gone down. Both ends have picked up on it. So what's to say if you put all this over, the old foundation, that's not going to keep on going. When it's cold out, it freezes because there's nothing underneath to protect it. What's going to protect vehicles from going over the ice and going over the bridge? I just, I would like to see it go back to its original. But with one exception, one solid beam going across the roadway, as opposed to three or four. Because that's where all the problems are right now. They keep on piecing little sections in. And the weak spots, the cars and trucks go over them and they increase it. If you did one solid beam going across, had it milled, I think the bridge will last a lot longer and be a lot safer for the bicyclists too. Thanks. Good evening. Roy McDowell, 96 Lincoln Lane. My wife and I have lived in Lincoln Lane for five years in Sudbury and 45 years on the other side of the bridge in Wayland. So we've been traveling this bridge for 50 years now. I'm a real estate developer, so I understand change. A little comment if you don't mind. We do a lot of renderings to sell our projects to communities and neighbors. This rendering is doing you a disservice. Get rid of that orange. Make it brown. Make it look friendly. Make it look earthy tone. It just looks horrible. It looks like a pumpkin. So that being said, I think if you change that will help you a lot. When you look at the galvanized metal that you want to paint, I would suggest you use color galf. It'll last a long, long time. Paint five years. You'll be out there scraping and repainting it. Would I love to see a wooden bridge? I would. But again, I'm in the development business. I understand change. If it's inevitable, you're going to change it. And it's inevitable it's going to be asphalt if that's really true. I assume this heavy gauge structure is because you're trying to meet mass dot standards. I think the color would be very important. Have you looked at cantilevering the sidewalk out of foot to get another foot on the sidewalk? I don't think that would be too difficult. It adds some structural components, but I think it's very doable. Because they're right. If it's five feet. Now, I mean, four feet wouldn't even meet ADA compliance. So you need to look at that. Wheelchairs, et cetera. I love the idea of stamping asphalt if you can do asphalt. We do that a lot on our projects. And it just changes the texture and the character. I think that'd be very helpful. The biggest concern I have if you're going to do this project, I've seen many projects, bridge projects, that take twice as long, sometimes three times as long as they project. And part of the problem is getting the materials in a timely fashion. If you're going to do this, I would highly suggest you not only procure all the things, but have them ready on time delivery, sitting somewhere in a yard, a warehouse, wherever, so we don't hear, well, we're waiting for this, we're waiting for that. It'll be another three months. It'll be another six months. Gee, they ran out of stock. You hear this all the time. And I think people would feel much more comfortable, if you're going to do it, to know that this can be done in a timely fashion. And the question is then, once you start, and assume you do as I ask, how long is it going to take you to do the project? Thank you. Thank you for all those points. In terms of the procuring materials, if this goes through and the glulam is supported by... One last point, in defense of what you want to do. I know some people worry about the asphalt. If you do the highest grade level of mass dot asphalt on top of the pelams, but you'll also, on the deck, but if you put down a geogrid, it'll distribute the weight even more. And asphalt has a certain amount of elasticity that other products don't. If it was a concrete, it would crack. Asphalt has elasticity. It'll last quite a bit longer. Thank you. Procuring materials, just to speak to that point. The DOT involvement would be purchasing and ordering all the glulam from one fabricator and having it on site before any mobilization or any road closure. Or starting of construction. So that would be a great point and something that I think would be taken care of. And just want to touch on one quick differentiator. The coating to kind of mimic a timber surface on top of asphalt is more a coating, not necessarily a stamping. Kind of a spray applied asphalt coating that's customizable and totally agree. The product that we're looking towards to try to or that we're investigating to try to mimic that timber surface is a spray applied product. It's been utilized. Sorry, a mic, Tom. Yep. Yeah, to your point, what we used in Framingham, what we used in Wayland was actually a dyed pavement that was stamped. You know, so I am thinking that, you know, as we pursue the company that we've used before, it's my intention to go with that same product line. Hello. My name is Chris Hager, Knopsgar Road Sudbury. I'm chairman of the Sudbury Historical Commission. But tonight I'm speaking just for myself. The Sudbury Historical Commission has not yet taken up this project because we're waiting for the architectural renderings and the design review. And the Sudbury DPW director is going to be getting us this information soon. And then hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll start a discussion of our review of it. So for those of you not familiar with the Sudbury Historical Commission, our bylaw set us up. So we have a responsibility for the preservation, protection, and development of historical and archaeological assets in Sudbury, including all historic town buildings and historic structures. That's why we have an interest in the design of the new bridge. Obviously the site has a very strong historical significance for both Sudbury and Wayland because the first bridge was built in the 1700s. I think as you go over the current bridge, kind of the look of it and the feel of it as you go over it, registers that there's some history associated with this bridge. So the question for our commission is whether the proposed design is going to provide the experience for future users of some kind of history associated with this structure. And that's why, you know, we're going to be taking a very close look at the materials and, you know, will this still seem like it has any history associated with the site? Somebody mentioned runway. I mean, this particular rendering of it does show kind of a runway here. Again, from my point of view, I don't see any historical significance as I would cross this bridge as opposed to the bridges that have been there before, including the current one. So I think that's something that we will be looking at. I think switching materials out and from wood, you know, that might be of a concern to us. I think it's really how are you going to honor the rich history of this site and the prior bridges that have been there? And that's what I would like you to really think about. This has come up in Sudbury on the rail trails that have been designed because they've had historical railroad artifacts along the rail trails, both Central Mass and the Bruce Freeman, including bridges that have gone through changes. And so we've worked pretty actually closely with the Whalen Historical Commission. One of their members has worked closely with our commission to come up with ways to actually honor the history of these artifacts, such as Sherman's Bridge, except on the rail trails. So I would ask you to sort of think about that concept. We've put up signage. We've worked with the town of Sudbury and the state to put up signage that honors the past history of the site. I don't see any of that as part of this plan, but I think that would be something that you might want to consider and let us know what you're thinking is of that. The chair of the Whalen Historical Commission reached out to me recently and indicated that they have some concerns. Their meeting is actually tonight, so they can't be here. So you might want to try and think about getting both commissions together. You mentioned you had the Conservation Commission and Sudbury and Whalen get together to help you with this project. I think you need to start engaging, you know, the historical commission in both towns to give you some input and ideas. And so I would encourage you to think about how you're going to honor the history of this site, either through the design or kiosks or signage or something. I don't see any of that in this sort of conceptual design that you have here. I think that was really my comments. And once we get the information from the Sudbury DPW director, then our commission will start to look at it in earnest and start to develop, you know, comments and questions for you folks. Great. Thank you. Hi, my name is Alyssa Brown. I'm the river ambassador for the Sudbury Assabet and Concord Wild and Scenic River Stewardship Council. And I know we are presenting conceptual design plans here tonight. I tend to be a tree person and not a forest person, so I have a lot of detailed questions. And I know I've asked for concept plans, detailed plans before, and they haven't been forthcoming yet. And my interest is really in the river. And so let me start off by asking a little bit more about the stormwater improvements that you're suggesting, which certainly are called for in this area. But I know the right-of-way is pretty narrow there, so I was wondering where this proposed rip-wrap discharge is. Because on the Wayland side, obviously, we'd hate to lose any of the area for recreational vehicle access. Totally. So I hate... Yeah, the intent would be we're not trying to encroach on or encroach outside of the right-of-way. Federal land everywhere and trying to get easements or anything I don't think is the right way to go. So we try to discharge just in the banks with some rip-wrap stone to help with erosion that's currently happening out there. And that's kind of what we've gone over with the Conservation Commission's is... So would this be on the Wayland side or the Sudbury side? Both. Both sides? Yep. One, just anecdotally, we've started engaging with Army Corps engineers and National Park Service has jurisdiction on the river. We've started the coordination efforts and shown the kind of conceptual plans. And most recently, as we've been trying to continue the coordination, the shutdown is affecting that. But we've been in talks with them and showing what we're trying to do and ensuring that there's no adverse effects to the Sudbury River from the parks and Army Corps side. Will there be any changes to the informal boat grants that presently exist on either side of the bridge on the Wayland side? Not looking to make any significant changes, no. Actually, there's lots of room for improvement in those. Sure. There's significant erosion into the river, which is probably the worst water quality problem we have, rather than the small amount of discharge you're going to get from the roadway. Spian, you had mentioned briefly, and I thought I heard you say you were also going to be doing some sediment removal from the river where the pilings are. And I was wondering about that, whether that sediment has been pre-characterized at all yet, particularly given that the sediment in that section of the river is within the Nianza Superfund site operating unit for mercury release, whether there has been any characterization done, whether a 401 water quality cert has been applied for yet, whether there's been any macroinvertebrates that have done of the sediment that will have to be removed and the method of removal that's proposed for that. Sure. Sediment was more intended as branches and debris that have been caught by the piles, but certainly something that I'll add to the list and we'll investigate. All right. And then I have a question, once again, on the railings, because we do have so many birders and fishermen and even paddlers that talk to their friends on one side of the river and then run over to the other side to finish the conversation. Whether the railing has to be continuous the entire length of this bridge or whether there can be occasional gaps that people could access to get in because I know people probably of my age and abilities are not able to climb over those railings to get to the other side. And people will be doing that. Actually, going back onto one of the questions has to do with the treatment of the surface, winter maintenance particularly. We've been doing an awful lot of work with our water management associations on water quality in the surface waters and the groundwaters and we're getting, particularly in the areas where MassDOT is doing the winter maintenance, tremendous inputs of road salt into our groundwater and surface waters. And so I was wondering what the maintenance, future maintenance, winter maintenance will be on these bridges and would that be different if it were asphalt versus wood, right? I can't, sorry. I can't speak to the maintenance point of view. So I would turn to the DPW to kind of help with that. Tina Rivard, DPW director for the town of Sudbury. So with regards to the winter maintenance, it would actually be a benefit of the asphalt with the road, with the salt, treating the road and the infrastructure in place to capture it at both ends of both Sudbury and Whalen at both ends of the bridge to treat, when you're plowing the roads to treat the snow and the runoff going into the catch basins before it goes off into the river. Whereas right now, if there's salt being applied onto the bridge itself, it goes right into the river in between the wooden slats. So are you suggesting that the rip-wrap in the district is going to have any impact on salt concentrations? No, it'll capture the water quality in the catch basins and before it discharges. All right. All right. And lastly, I was just going to, I was wondering if it's possible, if there are any future meetings that if you could perhaps bring a piece of glulam, because I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I sure don't know what glulam looks like. And I think it would be really helpful to see that. Thank you. Sure. Thanks. Thank you. Karen Paradise, 46 Lincoln Lane. I just want to say that I've been very impressed with how respectful you've been of the residents, and I really appreciate that. I've lived it for 40 years on Lincoln Lane, and I have witnessed people typically going about 40 miles an hour over the bridge during certain periods of the day when they're in a hurry to get wherever they're going. We have a lot of high schoolers driving. One died some years ago on Lincoln Road. We have people who speed regularly there, and I believe coming from the Whelan side, it's worse than coming from the Sudbury side, because the line of sight is longer. And what happens is the people on the bridge itself, if it's paved, could be endangered by greater speeds. If people could go 50 or 60 miles an hour by the time they reach the bridge, it could be very dangerous. So I see the need for this speed rail that you're contemplating. But again, I understand that you're debating whether to go with wood or asphalt. And I would ask you to talk to the town of Stowe on Sudbury Road. There's a bridge that's been covered with asphalt. They have to pave it every year, every year. It develops potholes every year. So the wood is moving in a different pace from the asphalt. They've had asphalt on that bridge for many years. It's on Sudbury Road in Stowe. So I'm concerned about the speed, having lived there for all those years. I've seen all the teenagers who come up there running. The coaches send them up the road, and they run all the way to the bridge, and they run back. So having people speeding a lot faster in that section could be a very serious issue, and not a light issue as it's been portrayed. But thank you very much for all of your consideration. Sure. Thank you. Hi, John Weintraub. I grew up in Whalen, lived here for 18 years, moved away, and I've been living here for the last 18 years. So I grew up as a kid going to the bridge, and I love bringing my kids to the bridge today. There's obviously historical significance, but it's also just a place of peace. It's a place to see the sunrise or the sunset. And when I go there, just my blood pressure goes down. So I'd love to see it remain a wooden bridge, even if it's laminate, without the wearing surface. And I do have a couple of questions I've read. I've done some work on glulam bridges. I think it was Elise who brought up some issues with the wearing surface, especially when you have glulam on top of a sawn wood structure. Because sawn wood, which is just solid wood, will expand and contrast with moisture and the environment. Glulam won't. So then you start to get some deflection in the surface, which creates cracks, potholes. And from what I've read, the maintenance on a paved bridge over wood is not as simple as repairing a regular pothole. Typically you have a layer of asphalt, you have a membrane, and another layer of asphalt. So when you're repairing that pothole, you have to be careful that you don't damage the membrane. If you do, then it's a bigger issue. So there's a lot more maintenance if and when you have cracks or potholes. A question that I do have as far as, this is a flat bridge. The structure as it is today is flat. If you build this, what I'm seeing here is what's called scuppers. And scuppers is where the water goes off. You usually have a crown in the road, water goes off. So that would imply that that water is being shed into the river. How do you plan on diverting that water back to the end of the bridge? So if you could talk to that, that would be great. Sure. Go ahead. Okay. Fair. I think that certainly scuppers will allow some water to leave the structure before we get to the catch basins. Intent being that vast majority would get to the approaches and get to those catch basins for pre-treatment to re-enter the river. How is that possible? If the road is flat, you have a convex, a crowned road with those scuppers, and if the bridge deck is flat, how would you get enough pitch to get it? The survey shows that it is not perfectly flat that there is a pitch. I forget whether it pitches towards Wayland or Sudbury. I believe towards Wayland. But that would be the goal and the intent is to try to make sure it gets to those approaches. But again, with a slight crown, you will have a fair amount going to the water. So I don't think that the environmental benefit is really a lot to argue for the paved. And then also the paved deck, as a lot of people implied, would bring up speed. You talk about the fact that speed has to come down. But if we say that this is a 25-mile-an-hour bridge, which some people say it should be 15, which I agree, but even if it's 25, then putting in a significantly sized bridge approach device like that seems to be overkill for a 25-mile-an-hour bridge. I was involved in a bridge replacement on a 25-mile-an-hour road on the Cape, and we did not have to do that. And then the other thing I just want to add, because I just want to make sure, because it was brought up that we don't want to miss this money. But it's my understanding that the money is not dependent on putting that wear surface down. The money is for the glulam. So if we go glulam without the wear surface, we will still get the state money. So I just want to make sure that people understand if that's true. It just hasn't been fully guaranteed is the only drawback with that. And just to speak to the crash-tested ends, it could be speed-driven, but also could be the banks and the side slopes that could be project-specific, which is why we would require it. It could be, again, there hasn't been any accident there. In Whalen, we have a lot of roads. If you go down Plain or Claypet Hill Road, we have roads where there's four-foot trees that are literally right at. So my point is, I could walk on the sidewalk with a helmet, and I'll be safer. But at the end of the day, we don't have to necessarily over-improve things. And, again, I just want to circle back to my points on the watershed and the fact that the bridge structure, especially since it's significantly old, that there's a good chance that the substructure will flex more and create issues for the paved deck. So, thanks for your time. And, again, I appreciate the fact that Whalen and Subbury is looking for opportunities to save money for the town, because I think that's great as far as thinking about it strategically. But I think we have to balance that with the fact that this is an asset to the town, number one. And, two, that we're putting a beautiful, highly engineered new structure over something that's already probably significantly into its lifespan and the risk of that. I think that 40-year lifespan might not be true if we're putting it on a deck that's already 20 years old. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, I'm Sheila Corbett, and I live at 72 Sherman Bridge Road. And, basically, I am the abutter to the bridge. There's nobody else but us right at Sherman's Bridge Road. We know how fast people go on Sherman's Bridge Road. And having an asphalt bridge is going to just make them go faster. They go 40, 50 miles an hour now. I live right there. I know how fast they go. And during the wintertime, if they go around the bend too fast, they end up in the woods right before the bridge. So, knowing this and anticipating some kind of speed problem is a big thing. I have a dog. I walk my dog. I can't walk my dog when it's speeding. I have to change my hours walking the dog right now because the 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock, cars are constant on the bridge. I mean, constant on the bridge in the morning. In the afternoon, they change ways of going home, but in the morning, everybody travels down Sherman's Bridge Road, and it's very dangerous. So, I've had people turn around in my driveway. I have a big wide driveway. I don't want big trucks driving into my driveway to turn around, access my property. I've had trash trucks turn around in my driveway. Not even looking, they almost hit my mother. In my own driveway. It's not fair that all of this is going to end up when people come down to the bridge and not going to be able to cross the bridge. They're going to turn around in my driveway because everything is going to be right there at the bridge, and they're not going to be able to get by. So, I've had lost the pads in my driveway. My cement pads go onto the street, have all been crumbled by the trucks that turn around in my driveway. I have a big fear of when this project gets done of all the issues that I have with trucks and issues that I have with people not having the consideration of what's going on. I have an elderly mother there, and so I'm very concerned about what's going on with the trucks. The big, huge trucks that drive over that bridge right now. The 18-wheelers, they've got the big logging trucks that go over that bridge. The reason why it's crumbling is because of these big, huge trucks. If the trucks weren't going over the bridge, it would be much safer. We could keep a wooden bridge, especially, you know, the aesthetic pleasingness of the bridge in the area. Having an asphalt bridge is going to take away a lot of the quaintness of Wayland and Sudbury. So, that's it. Sure. Thank you for it all. Thanks. Hello. My name is Kirk Tramposh. I live at 2 Weir Meadow Path in Wayland. When you're on the north side of the bridge, looking up toward Weir Hill, we're the last house on the river. So, it's about 2,000 feet away and a line of sight. And I've participated in the last sessions from 87, 15, 16, 92, the rebuild of the bridge. And it's clear that things have changed on Sherman Bridge. Before, the traffic calming used to be the potholes on the bridge. And the, not the bridge, on the Sherman Bridge road side. On the approaches, sir? Yeah. And then the road was repaved. Now we have multiple stop signs which have helped slow down things. The issue I'm having is the bridge is being repaired in a larger context. And while it's trying to solve some problems, it's causing other problems that aren't dealt with if you're talking about safety and preserving safety. One question I have, Mike, is what is the crash test rating on the glulam side rails, sir? Reference to speak to it being a TL4 crash testing rating. What speed? I'm going to turn to Kev for a little help on explaining the TL levels. Sorry, we need a mic. The last I heard, it was a 60 mile per hour crash test. Okay. The median speed on the road has been determined to be roughly 38 overall. But Sherman Bridge and Lincoln Road accesses to the bridge were straightened out in 72 with some land takings where the towns took out some of the curves. They were determined in 87 proposal to be a hazard. So they were going to be straightened even more with the concrete bridge that was going to be coming in, the $3 or $4 million. Basically, the model for it was the railroad bridge in West Concord. And this was a DOT and the highway departments had pretty much signed off on it until we had a neighborhood meeting. And I guess what I'm thinking here is, is this the first neighborhood visioning that this project has had? Is this the first overall meeting of the two towns residents to discuss this project? Has there been one earlier? No. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's a good point because the plan right now, this is not staying up. The plan right now, as I read in the handout, is to continue the design and permitting phase to the end of this year. Let's see, that's about two months away. And then go into final project planning. At some point in order to get this far on the project, a contract had to be signed with the state. How long ago was that in order to get the monies for planning, for design, for consulting, for... No contract. There's no contract with the state right now? No, they've offered to be a partner with this project and support it financially. What is the idea of using a glulam surface that is being done in kind? What is that about? Who is doing that? What, giving a working, I think Mr. Holder had discussed working with a company that's involved in the project to try out something new. What, what is that, Tom? So I guess to answer some of your questions in the order that you were asking them is, you know, we've been working with MassDOT. Okay. They understand, based upon their inspection reports, that this bridge is now categorized as in severe, you know, a disrepair. The repair needs to be made as soon as possible. They have a process whereby glulam is applied. There's a top course of asphalt. Yes. They are strongly emphasizing that that be the route and the design that we pursue. We are, we have the opportunity to obtain, in essence, what is valued at about a million dollars. $325,000 for the glulam materials, and the balance of that is what they're saying they will likely be able to use their area contractor to perform the installation. I'm sorry, is this the state you're talking about? MassDOT. Okay. Yep. So they've, they have the contract. They have area contracts. They did something similar for us two years ago on Route 27 over the Sudbury River. Sure. Whereby they, you know, they did the work for us, and it worked out beautifully. Sure. So that's the schedule that we're trying to adhere to. They have, they have told us, they wanted an answer from us some time ago, but we knew how important it was for us to have public input, give residents abutters the opportunity to speak their mind, to offer suggestions, what their desires, what they feel are important. So we deferred giving MassDOT a response until after we've had this gathering. We've heard a lot. We knew it was important to, to gain this information. But if we're to benefit from, in essence, a million dollar opportunity here, we need to notify them that Sudbury and Wayland are prepared to advance this project. And their deadline is to have it completed within calendar year 26. And the reason for the, I read the inspection report from last year. It didn't seem like there was critical need to do a immediate repair. ASAP. SA is the, on much of the decking criteria. Yes. You read that and you'll see SA. That's severe, major deterioration, repair as soon as possible. Right. When you go back through the historic records on bridge deck repair to this bridge, right into the 1700s, that was a normal thing to do. Every five, ten years, the repair of the decking had to be done. It had to be done. And it was. And sometimes less exponentially than others, expeditiously. But that's always been part of having a timber bridge. When Don Ouellette, your successor, your predecessor, made the proposal 10, 15 years ago to replace the bridge. It's going to be three or four million dollar concrete bridge. And the comparison to, say, spending $20,000 a year to replace timbers at the worst, or $20,000 every two years. It turned out to be like a 300-year payback in order to accommodate for a new bridge versus replacing decking periodically. The superstructure has to be replaced periodically and has been. But where the expenses on the bridge right now have to do with making it safer and faster for cars. Basically, by fencing off pedestrian and viewing areas, putting in asphalt to make it faster, and making it difficult for pedestrians on the bridge to move back and forth on the bridge, depending on what's happening on the river. What I'm seeing is it's being done with DOT funds for the sake of the bridge, but not really looking at the context of the entry points from either side, from Sudbury or from Wayland. It's not looking at the disappearing sidewalks on at least the Wayland side and the most dangerous hill on the whole road as you approach the bridge, a blind, curved, steep hill. It's not accommodating for weight limits, as far as I can see. It's really beyond me that the bridge has been able to withstand the kinds of traffic and weights it has. And I thoroughly understand the neighbors' concerns with noise because 2,000 feet away, my wife and I, who have been living where we are for 50 years, with the wind direction right, can hear the noise from the bridge rumbling. Sometimes it's very loud, sometimes it's not. But I keep in mind Pelham Island Bridge, when that was finally replaced from a single lane wooden bridge to what we have now, a concrete bridge. The first thing the neighbors did after Pelham Island Bridge was put in with two lanes was complain about the traffic speed and the noise. And they wanted speed bumps put in because in the past the bridge had been the speed bump. And now, I don't know if they're still doing it now, but they were looking for rumble strips or they were looking for speed bumps or something to slow down. Is that correct? Do I have that right? I am not aware of any intention of putting speed bumps, speed humps or rumble strips on Pelham Island Road. No, not intention, but neighbors were complaining about it after the bridge had been installed. Yeah, that, I'm not aware of it, likely because I wasn't here when that work was done. Oh, okay, sorry. Gleason Lane has, I think, 11 speed bumps, humps, rumps, whatever, for the neighbors who are worried about traffic coming through Gleason Lane to go to the town mall. And the first thing that happened was landscaper trailers and trucks made terrific noise coming down through Gleason Lane as they were going all these speed bumps and they weren't going slowly either. This bridge is acting as a speed bump for traffic. The asphalt and the confining the driving area, making it less possible to interact with bicyclists or pedestrians or people fishing on the bridge, is going to speed up the bridge. But without doing anything on either access side and without looking at the problems on Sherman Bridge Road itself, which I think is an extraordinarily unsafe road. I've biked it, I've run it for 50 years. And that roadway, when you get to the choke point coming from Oxbow and Alpine going up the hill, is the most dangerous, confining, invisible, fast corner for anybody walking a baby carriage or riding a bike or running that I've seen in town. This is nothing to do with the safety of that when we're looking at just the bridge and the project and how this is going to increase traffic on the roadway. The other problem that I should mention is I didn't take long searching to find that glulam surfaces are very problematic when they're applied to a timber bridge, especially an older existing bridge. In this case, major reports in the past 20 years have assessed glulam surfaces with asphalt on top of timber structures. And they found that it will de-laminate, it will deflect differentially, it has a wearing surface when you have a problem with asphalt on a glulam, has to be attended to immediately. You can't wait like you can with timbers, because the problem gets worse in a hurry. One of the things, and the studies are there, and I'm sure that people in this room can provide them to you. But having gotten this far with this process, it looks like it's a fait accompli. That is, it's going to be glulam, it's going to be crash-worthy things. Is that not the case? Is there any thought that this might change, or the wonderful comments that we have tonight are going to make a change in this design? And how does that happen? So what we are trying to achieve is a bridge repair design that provides a balance for providing the public safety issues that we've been talking about all evening, but also being mindful of preserving the historical appearance and functionality of the bridge. That's important to me, because I've been on, I was on the steering committee for the Sudbury and Assabit River Committee for ten years. I've been involved in many of the issues in town around historic preservation. This is not, in any form, historic preservation. Adding the steel to the bridge, adding the asphalt. I like Roy's comment about the orange because it's actually very telling. This is a DOT structure with a million dollars attached to it without having alternatives presented. The fact that we're at the end of the year and we're already wrapping up the design process and permitting, permitting, is Mass DEP involved? Well, the Conservation Commission has to report and file with Mass DEP, so indirectly they are, yes. Fish and Wildlife? We are working with them as well. We are working with them as well. Army Corps of Engineers, yes. The Army Corps, you're working with them in what way? To obtain permits to perform this work. All right. So in other words, you already have a bridge with glue lamb and a million dollars that's going through the permitting process before we've even had the envisioning, quote, session. I don't understand that. I don't understand that. That's turning the process on its head. This is unlike any other kind of process I've seen on the bridge, and it seems almost irreversible at this point. But here's one other thing. Sherman Bridge is the last bridge to go underwater during a major flood. 2010, 1987, 1968. Route 20 goes under in Whelan. Route 27 goes under at the golf course. 117 goes under. I've actually been on 117 with fishtails where people are rushing to get over the bridge before the water came up any longer, any higher, so you could get on the other side of the river in rushing traffic where you couldn't even see the road. This bridge is the last bridge. And when it goes underwater, the access sides, the access on both sides, goes underwater first. People are still using the bridge. The lamination, the delamining of the glulam under flooding conditions is severe. It's a documented problem. It's in the water. Basically, the bridge is underwater for a week, sometimes more. I haven't heard anything about issues around glulam surfaces, although they're out there, the history of problems with glulam. But this bridge does flood. And when it does, you have all of that membrane and glulam and asphalt and everything else basically underwater while people are still driving on it until it gets too deep and the bridge has to be closed. I haven't heard anything addressing issues of debris. In 68, Army Corps of Engineers had a great picture of a crane that had to come in and get on the bridge to remove all the debris that a hurricane had deposited upriver on the south side of the bridge in order to keep the bridge from collapsing. When you have that kind of debris hitting against an engineered system like this, there's no hope that it's going to retain its integrity. But the biggest problem I have, Tom, is the – and I'll stop, but I'm not finished – but I – it's very disappointing to be in the final stages of an envisioning where it involves recreation, it involves bicyclists. I've seen groups of bicyclists stop on the bridge in order to admire the wildlife refuge. Fishing a regular event, the landings there almost went away with one of the earlier bridge designs, and I and others in the neighborhood had to fight to keep the landing. Tom is right. Tom is right. You have very few access points along the river. This is an important one. I guess what I'd like to do is reply – Yes. Covering a fair amount of items that you've mentioned. Yes, thank you. I just want to explain how we got to where we are tonight and why we're at this schedule. All right. You know, we have bridge inspection reports from years past whereby we were able to accommodate an answer to those reports by replacing timber boards each season, sometimes twice per season. Yes. Now the bridge reports tell us that we're at a much higher level of deterioration. We can no longer sustain the maintenance approach that we have been currently. Those lag bolts have nothing to bite into. You go on the bridge, I'm sure. Well, they were misaligned to begin with. Somebody didn't know how to put them in. Well, I would debate that, but – so we cannot sustain that. We can't go on another year or two, even a year. Yes. We have nothing to bite into. So MassDOT has stated to us, we invited them tonight. They were unable to attend. But if we do not make a repair to this bridge in the coming year, they will close it. So we have been making this effort – we have been making this – The neighborhood was very quiet when they were rebuilding the bridge. Bear with me one minute. Yes. So we have been making this effort to develop a solution that achieves the balance that I was talking about earlier. The balance comes with inviting – And this is the first time – Groups and neighbors to come in. People who have lived here. I think this bridge was replaced or worked on in 71, 91. Yes. It was proposed in 2015. Now we're proposing it. I believe this is the first time ever that a forum has been scheduled and held to obtain input. No, that's not true. In fact, I was here in Sudbury for one of the earlier iterations. I think it was 87, with the concrete bridge. That was a forum before the final design forum. They were proposing a design. And I and neighbors, some who are here, were at that meeting. And we got them to change a few things. Like they wanted to raise the bridge four feet in order to be out of the water so it would be the only bridge that was out of the water when all the other roads were – they wanted to straighten out and raise the access on either side of the bridge to make it faster. We had a meeting then and it did have an impact and they decided not to go with it. I've been to all those meetings. Yeah, yeah. And I think that those meetings were held when the design process was much further along. I think that there were obligations made at that point in time were coming before the residents and the abutters, the interested parties, well before those meetings were held in the past. That was the point I was trying to make. Yeah. So I guess bottom line is we need to – we need to do something now. And I believe what we're proposing, there have been a lot of informative remarks made tonight. So we will now go back as a design and project team and speak to these things and put together – Have another meeting? Have another community? If we're to utilize the offering of MassDOT, we would not be having – No, Tom. No. It's not that imperative. There are things that have to be fixed on the bridge and they do have to be fixed sooner rather than later. But it's not falling to the river. It's not dangerous. In fact, one of the things that I've been worried about here, we've been hearing about crash testing and having a bridge that – this is rated as an urban collector bridge. And it's rated as that because it's in a town, in towns, which have an urban population more toward Route 20 and 30. But this is a rural bridge situation, not an urban collector. A lot of these design techniques that are being used are to accommodate DOT crash standards, which aren't necessary for this bridge. And what I'm asking is, where have there been accidents that necessitate this kind of – what's the word? Making it a – I mean, I can speak to that. I mean, we've got two registered engineers sitting here as panelists. But, you know, when they're asked to put their professional stamp on a set of design drawings, they need to assure that current standards are being met. No, no. The question is, where's the documentation that there have been accidents, endangerments on the bridge that require this kind of reinforcement? I don't think you need to provide evidence that there's a chance. I think you need to – There are standards that are put in place. No, have there been accidents. Hmm. Have there been accidents on the bridge? Have pedestrians been hit? Have bicyclists gone off the road? Has a bridge – has a car gone off the bridge that requires this kind of reinforcement? And then I guess, you know, I'm not sure if we want to debate this, but I'll ask you guys, do we have to provide evidence – It either is or isn't. It isn't a debate. Do we have to provide evidence that there were crashes, or are there standards that have to be met regardless? I think there's a ladder. You have very good questions. You know, as far as what is the justification – Well, I'm sorry to rail on, but these are not being answered tonight. Frankly, we don't wait for accidents to happen to make changes occur. We design to prevent things from occurring. It's a responsibility that we have as professional engineers, but that's why standards exist, so that there's the predictability of those features that we touch on the design side and that the towns construct that have a reasonable assurance of meeting not some arbitrary standard, but tested national, federal standards that are supported by the American Association of State Highway Transportation officials and others, not just some appearance of a state-level design that gets hammered down to Wayland and Subbury. This is a fundamental element of basic roadway safety features. All right. I guess what I'm asking is what wasn't working up until now that it necessitates this kind of million-and-a-half dollars? I know it needs repairs. I know it's going to take money. The decking has issues need to be fixed, but why all of this? Because it's responsible design. That's what it comes down to. And like I said before, we don't wait for accidents to occur to wait for that to have something happen. We do it from our approach to make sure that there's a level of safety that we can stand behind with our stamps that represent something that we know is safe for the motoring, the walking, the biking public. So something like independent of the color of certain features on the rendering, but the type of features to have a rail that's affixed to the bridge deck that's closest to the traffic to keep traffic on the bridge. If not that, the alternatives to something else would precipitate a completely different type of structure, which I don't think anybody in this room would want. So this is the balancing that Tom talked about, which is how can we try to respect the timber frame structure, but in a way that meets current safety standards responsibly for all types of users? All right, this is considered an urban collector bridge, according to the inspection. These are safety standards for a bridge that is not in a rural, historic, environmentally sensitive area because of... And please review the information on glulam and the national associations that have come out against putting glulam onto an existing timber bridge. It's there. Chapters have been written in reports over the past 20 years talking about the problems of this technology. I understand it's attractive. I know from, say, the incident in Duxbury where the timber bridge that was there that the town manager was trying to secretly kill for four and a half years because he had to keep repairing it and didn't even tell the selectmen he was working with DOT to try to kill it. That's still undergoing now. That's a major... Well, you know. You know better than I... I have no knowledge of this Duxbury project, so... Okay, well, it's a powder point bridge in Duxbury. It's a historic bridge. It's like two Sherman bridges together. Excuse me, sir. And they've been trying to kill that bridge because it's work to keep a timber bridge going. But the question is, what kind of accident reports? You have to have something in the past that shows it's necessary to harden this structure to this degree. Thank you, sir, for your... Where are those reports? We appreciate your comments and your questions. There's a line of people behind you that have been waiting quite a while to speak. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were there. I thought I was going to yell into the night. You wouldn't mind if they could come up and ask their questions? I certainly will. I appreciate your patience. I'm sorry to unload here, but these are all things that, having been 50 years involved in Sherman Bridge, are pretty apparent to me and many of the neighbors who are here who have even been there longer, working through the process of trying to preserve a historic wooden bridge that's appropriate for that spot. And there are accommodations that can be made, but coming to a group like this, saying we have a million dollars, we have an imperative to get the structure repaired now is impossible. It's like saying, you know, thank you for coming, but we already have the plan and we're about to sign off on it. I don't know when the contract's going to place, but pretty soon, I imagine. Thank you very much. As Director Holder had said, this meeting was to collect the feedback, and they're going to take that feedback, the team, and they're going to look at what amendments can be made. Is that terrific? Will you now agree to have another meeting to discuss the feedback, the changes, and any implementation, some feedback from the community before contracts are signed to do this monstrosity? There are other public hearings and other opportunities to provide feedback in both towns, such as your Conservation Commission meetings and other meetings? No, no. I mean a hearing like this, a get-together. It's something that's standard practice. Mike can tell you. Have you signed up for the email subscriber list? I certainly have. I'm looking forward to them. So we can discuss that internally and see if it works into the timeframe, if there's going to be another opportunity. The timeframe is what? The timeframe is to have it done by next summer so you can do it during the summer and get the money? What timeframe? Well, we have to look at the project schedule, sir, and respectfully, we have to absorb what has been presented here today. Yes. And then we can email out an update to you once we've had time. All right, email updates. We need a meeting. We need another opportunity to get the kind of feedback that you got tonight that I thought was extraordinary. It was very helpful. I do, too. I think it was a wonderful thing to see people actually come out to one of these meetings and to contribute their thoughts and their feedback. They're actually interested in it, yes. Yes. And it's wonderful to see that and we appreciate that. And I applaud you all because you gave us some more ideas outside of the box. Mr. McDowell gave some really great ideas. You've provided your feedback. We do want to take that feedback back with us and talk about it with the team. All right. So we are going to have another community meeting after this one? So what I'm prepared to commit to tonight is that we as a design project team will debrief over this meeting. We will commit that within three weeks, using the distribution list that we have, we will put out a message to everybody here tonight on what the next steps are. And if you are not satisfied with that, then you will have the ability to reach out to town officials and make that known. By email? That you're going to reach out to town officials? Yeah. That works best. Tom, that's not acceptable. This is a major project. It's a major change to the context of it. And it's doing it without any regard for the safety of the road itself in both directions. There's a lot of things that needs to be done there. This isn't solving those other problems on the road. Right. So what I guess I'm saying is that we'll put out the message to everybody here tonight on what we believe our next steps will be. If you are not satisfied with that and you want to demand another meeting, then I would suggest you contact all of us and make that demand. But let us please at least learn from you tonight, put together a plan and offer up next steps. Well, I understand that that's... That's what I'm, that's what I'm prepared to obligate tonight. Well, that's, that's the efficient way to do it. But it's making this kind of a sham meeting because we're not really, we're giving input, but we're kind of, you know, that's, that's the design. And we're going ahead with it. And we have a million dollars go. Yeah, that's not, that's not true. Okay. So you are going to commit to another full meeting. I'm going to commit to informing this group what next steps are, what we learned tonight, what are going to be implemented into the design. And if that does not satisfy the group, then you can reach back out and let us know that. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate it. I didn't mean to unload on you. No worries. You're, you're, you're the guy at the mic. So thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Good evening. Alicia Carillo, Basswood Avenue in Sudbury. I am so impressed by the commitment investment by the folks that came out tonight. And you certainly know a lot more than I do. And I appreciate that. I feel like I'm in good hands. It's clear to me that the about 50 people who have been here tonight, the majority who have spoken are against the plan as it is proposed at this point. I think what I'm hearing is that this is the first vision meeting and is the last vision meeting. That's what I'm hearing. I'm also, I think I'm hearing that the feedback presented by folks tonight will be considered in tweaking the plan. And I just wonder the likelihood of that. And also in my mind, I'm just thinking what will happen when we see the final plan and nothing has changed. I'm just putting that out there, like the what if of that. I heard from Wayland some emails and phone calls read into the record earlier tonight. I know our town manager of Sudbury is here tonight. And I'm wondering if there was any communication from Sudbury residents about the proposal that we have yet to hear about. I apologize. I compiled the list of recorded correspondences between Sudbury residents and the project team. We compiled it into one list that Tom had read earlier tonight. So those comments, concerns and opinions and voices from both towns were read tonight from both communities. Thank you. And so I will just echo a lot of what I've heard tonight. This looks like overkill to me. I think we should go with a smooth wooden finish to comply with the scenic and historic site. I agree with the gentleman who spoke earlier that he goes down at the bridge and his blood pressure immediately comes down. When I look at this picture, my blood pressure is spiked. And I do appreciate the times when I have gone down to the bridge and been able to relax and kind of commune in that site. I would ask that going forward, I'm just looking at all the railings there. And one thing I've noticed as I drive over bridge after bridge after bridge in New England that has been, that have changed, been, you know, renovated. I forget it wasn't, I forget what word was used before. Rehabilitation. Rehabilitation, yeah. That suddenly as you go by and slow down to look at the scenery, you can't see anything because the railings are so fortified that there is no scenic view anymore. So I would just say that, that my hope is no matter what happens, when I slow down to five miles an hour to go over the bridge so that I can take in the scenery, that I'll still be able to do that. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. My name is Michael Hodges. I live very close to the bridge, 62 Sherman Bridge Road. I've lived there with my wife Karen for a little over 26 years. I've agreed with many of the things mentioned tonight. I personally have been using the bridge quite frequently. I go down there perhaps 10 times in the last two months for viewing, photography, watching the Great Blues and other wildlife. And one of the things that looking, just looking at this picture, it'd be nice to have walkways on both sides of the bridge. This rendering I see here, the one walkway that's there is narrowed. I wasn't thinking about it until I heard tonight that maybe that's not even compliant with people with disabilities. I would like to know if it's possible to maintain the current width of a walkway, perhaps with a little bit more of engineering, or modification, and adding it to the other side, if that actually can happen. That would be a request of myself, which I don't think I've heard the answer to. Okay. Thank you very much. Of course. Speaking to the slight narrowing on that side, I think a great comment, I forget who made it, of trying to get that foot back with a little candle lever on the side is certainly something that we'll look into, to try to maintain that current width, just to help that cause. Yeah. And also have the same thing on the other side. Yeah. That would be something that's new. Sure. Yeah. Challenges with that would just be town right-of-way on that side of the road is not, would have to investigate the width available for that. And it'd be quite difficult to do any type of cantilevered structure off the existing piles. So there'd be likely more in-water work and impacts that would require the permanent efforts. Okay. Well, I still would like to see that this is also being improved for other people than people and vehicles. And that would be a great improvement, besides many of the other speed issues, which I think are really important too. Sure. But I just wanted to say that that I think would be a great improvement for the pedestrians, the people that are walking and viewing off the bridge. Thank you. Of course. Thanks. Hi. Alisa on Sherman's Bridge Road in Wayland. And they call it Sherman Bridge because the post office can't handle an apostrophe S. And that's why it's in the deeds. Yeah. So if you write Sherman's Bridge on an envelope, it won't get there. So first, I wanted to thank everybody who has come here to hear the people who this concerns. And I didn't say that before because I was nervous. I'm still nervous. But I just kind of wanted to sum up. This is a bridge that is part of a conservation land and historic land and scenery. And it connects to completely residential, rural areas. From other roads off of Sherman's Bridge Road, or off the bridge, you might be able to get to Route 126 or 27 or whatever. But this is not a city. It's not urban. It's barely suburban. And it is not a highway. It would be better if it was just closed and made for pedestrians and maintain the viewing and the character of what is a historic bridge in this town and Sudbury. But I think what you've heard tonight is that changing the bridge this way may fix the bridge. It only increases danger for people on the ends of the bridge as people are speeding over it because it's easier, on Sherman's Bridge Road, on Lincoln Road, Road Lane. And so to rush this project through because we're going to get a million dollars' worth of free stuff is nearsighted, short-sighted. And a project like this would need you to consider, need to be considered, what the impact is on the neighborhood. Because this is a neighborhood bridge. Two neighborhoods. And it wouldn't be good. And apparently, like where I live, the place where they go the fastest on Sherman's Bridge Road, because they know they're going to have to stop at the stop sign so they want to go as fast as possible because they finally got onto Sherman's Bridge Road from, you know, 126. Phew! Apparently, it used to be a windy road and they straightened it out when they redid the bridge. It's a really stupid idea. Maybe what they should do is have, you know, some kind of a curve coming on and off or even a rotary or something where only cars can fit and go around that rotary, you know. So in order to preserve the neighborhoods that are impacted on either side of the bridge, which would be better if it was in some way, wouldn't and didn't have those obstacles. Because when you're out there looking at the view in this historic and nature conservation land bridge, you want to walk across both sides. You know, you don't want to have to reach your legs over and a short person like me can't do it, or walk all the way to the end to be able to get out of your kennel that goes along the sides and come back up the other side. We go back and forth in the front and it's, I don't. You're talking about restrictions. Yeah, it's just, it's restricted. And, or make it a one lane road and sometimes the days can go one way, sometimes the other way and have nice wide sides on, you know, on either side where wheelchairs and limited access can go. And, you know, it's a much more continuing the use that it has now, which is as much recreation of the neighborhood as it is trucks and vehicles crossing in order to avoid the highways that they should be on. Thank you. Thanks. Carol, I live on Lincoln, Lincoln Road. I just want to make a comment on your photograph there, your artist's rendering. Where are the streetlights going in? I see the wires going over the bridge. There are none there. In reality, I don't think there are any wires going over the bridge. That's something that shouldn't have been in the picture. That's all short and sweet. Thank you. Hi, I'm Chris Foster at Oxbow Road, which runs into Sherman's Bridge. My visual of this is that it doesn't really seem to preserve the historic character of the bridge, mostly I think because of the asphalt. So I'm wondering what other materials were considered. I get that there's the stamping or the striping, but what other materials were considered as alternatives to asphalt? Only other, and this is not considered, but in terms of wearing surfaces besides asphalt, it would be concrete, and that's not something that we entertained on this bridge. But there are no other kinds of wood or composite materials that could be used to solve the existing problem and build a better decking for it? We could investigate other alternatives besides asphalt, but kind of the goal is to try to protect that investment of the glulam and lower the maintenance burden. So we'll take that into consideration. At the end of the day, there might be other materials that look more aesthetically pleasing, but are... Potentially. Potentially. Yeah, okay. Or no asphalt, but we'll investigate that. Asphalt, I see the difficulty there. It's cracking. And it's also asphalt would be, from my perspective, the same as having, you know, what's depicted here, which doesn't look anything like a historic bridge. So, I mean, this is a fine bridge, but it's not a historic bridge. It doesn't look like a historic bridge. Mm-hmm. So, it would be good to know what the other alternatives are. Great. Thank you. Yeah. So, in the lateness of the hour, because it's almost 9.15, we'll take this gentleman's question, and then we're going to convene the meeting. Thank you, sir. Good. So, what we just heard was a problem with the project overview. I'm Jeff Stein. I live at 48 Sherman's Bridge Road for the past 25 years. Here you write, Sherman's Bridge carries traffic across the Sudbury River between Sudbury and Weyland. If that were all that Sherman's Bridge did, the picture here would mean that you solved the problem. But as you've heard tonight, that's only one little part of what Sherman's Bridge is, an iconic historic wooden structure that defines an entire neighborhood. Sherman's Bridge is a place. People congregate there. People have been married on the bridge, for heaven's sake. But when you go to the bridge on almost any day, you can see someone photographing, painting, fishing off the bridge, putting boats in the water, just standing there watching the sunset. Or, at night time, this is the only place on Sherman's Bridge Road, the end of the road, before it gets to Sudbury, where the sky is available to you. So the dark night sky is a wondrous thing from the middle of Sherman's Bridge. And people bring their telescopes to there, too. Shrinking the sidewalk from five feet, which is already a little too small, to four feet, isn't helping many of the clients that you have for this bridge. So I would recommend at least a six-foot sidewalk, easy to cantilever that. You probably know the rule of thumb for your front porch. It has to be at least six feet deep or else someone standing there can't walk behind them and yada, yada, yada. So Sherman's Bridge is a place. Remember that as you work over the next three weeks to see if you can solve some of the problems that are so much more complex than what you've presented to us so far. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. And I hope that you have signed up for the email subscriber list. As Director Holder had mentioned, we will be emailing out an update and next steps. And we appreciate that.