April 14, 2026 – Zoning Board of Appeals – Video & Transcript
April 14, 2026 - Zoning Board of Appeals
Good evening. This is the April 14, 2026 meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals.
This meeting may be recorded, and if recorded, will be made available to the public on Wake
Campus soon after the meeting is possible. Pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025,
this meeting will be conducted in person and via remote access in accordance with applicable law.
If this meeting has only remote access, no in-person attendance by members or the public
will be permitted. That is not the case this evening. If this meeting does have remote
access, one can watch or participate remotely. There's a meeting link that's found on the
town website and on the meeting notice agenda. We're required by law or allowed by the chair
if a person is wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting,
may do so at the meeting location, in-person or remote access. Public comments should be
limited to two minutes per person. So I guess with that, is there any general public comments
not related to the specific cases?
Seeing none, has the board had a chance to review the draft minutes from March 10th?
I have.
Any comments?
No.
I guess with that, I make a motion to approve the minimum minutes of March 10th, 2025. Second. Since we're all here, we just do no easing to do this by local. So all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. All right. So we're going to approve it. With that, let's wait another couple of minutes for Sean to arrive before we start our first case. Again, we're going to report this.
If we don't see him in two minutes, we'll just go. That implies that he's probably not going to be here within two minutes. Yeah. So I think we should get started. All right. We'll just have to make sure that all the applicants are allowed to do that. I understand. All right. So this is the 7 p.m. application for a ZBA case 26-06-125W Road. This is the application of Claire and Paul Lorette for the property of 125W Road located in the single arch from the district. The applicant seeks a special permit and or other zoning relief under the Wayland Zoning Violet constructed in addition to the existing dwelling. The property contains a pre-existing non-conforming structure that does not comply with the required 30-foot 20-yard setback. The proposed addition would increase the gross floor area of the structure by 39.87%, which exceeds the 20% expansion limit for non-conforming structures under 198.401.1.3.2 by 19.87%. The proposal would also result in a four-story structure, which exceeds the maximum two-and-a-half storey right permitted in our district. The applicant is therefore requesting... So we have anyone here for this case? So before we get started, there are only four of us, so any decision we take does have to be unanimous tonight because we don't have a fifth person. And he will be here, but we don't know when he's going to be here. So I don't want to hold you up. The other thing I want to bring up is that there are some potential challenges with your application. So I guess in light of the... In light of that, do you want to proceed to present with only four of us, or we should prefer to wait?
Unless somebody else prefers, essentially. Well, we're going to have to take a problem with everybody tonight. Well, in light of questions about the application. Yeah, I suppose that's true.
I'm not sure, to be honest with you. What's... Where are my shoes? What are you guys doing? I don't know really how this all happens. Well, I'll tell you what. Let's have you present the... Why don't you come up, introduce yourself, we'll open the hearing, and then I'm going to give you, after that, we'll give you a quick presentation. If you can give us a quick presentation of what you want to do, I'll sort of let you know the kind of the four questions that I saw with your application that I think are going to be some challenges. Will you? Sure. So I guess I'll start with the garage plan that we had originally submitted. About a year ago. And we had submitted it. You guys gave us a variance to put five feet from the right-of-way there. Appreciate that. But once we got the conservation, we kind of realized there was some pretty low likelihood that it passed through because it's within, you know, it's within 30 feet of the water. So we kind of hit a crossroads there and said, do we spend a lot of money and kind of push it through, or do we put the brakes on it and kind of... I guess, circle troops and figure out what else we can do. And this is how we kind of got put on this project here. Okay. We have two small kids. Our house is pretty tight. There's stuff everywhere. So we need to get a little relief into a piece of our house and get a playroom and a second floor to leave our bedroom upstairs.
The house is, it's really true to two stories now. There's a basement. You know, that's what the house looks like now. So it's... It's not as aggressive as the plans suggest, I guess, from an eye level. So I just wanted to share that picture with you guys.
And that's it. I'll do it. All right. So the... What I wanted to bring to your attention is a couple things in the application. One is that even if we wanted to, you present a sympathetic case for the property. I'm well familiar with it based on the garage. But even if the board wanted to, we can't... We can't... We can't grant a variance for a four-story structure. Homes greater than two and a half stories, they can only go to three stories. And they're only permitted on lots of five acres or more. So we're kind of up against a real problem with that. Even if we wanted to grant you a variance for this. The second thing is, and this may help you with this first thing, the kind of the critical piece to kind of understand this is the average grade calculation, which you don't have on your... You don't have on your plans. And you're going to really need that added there, because I think that may answer questions about whether this is really a four-story structure. The third thing is that your... The site plan needs to be that it still shows the garage. But you're going to want to submit the plan without the garage on it, because when we look at the variance process, we have to consider sort of the totality of creating the variance for the zoning ordinance that deals with density setbacks. Building, massing, all of that. And I don't want... I should preface this again by saying variances are a particular... They're a more strict standard than a special permit. And the paperwork has to be like 100% in order. I have a copy of the one without the garage. Okay. But it wasn't included in this. So one thing I was thinking is it might make sense to withdraw this application. How do you make... Those revisions and then resubmit it. And if you withdraw it without prejudice, there's no fee to resubmit it. There's no... We can resubmit it at any time. We're not going to sort of have any negative connotations with you coming back. But given the sensitivity of the site and the issues that we're going to have with the Conservation Commission on anything on this site, I think we want to make sure that the application is 100% exactly correct. Okay. So that, coupled with the fact that there's only four of us, sort of, is why I was suggesting maybe the best course for this would be to withdraw the application and then submit it. No problem. And I know I had spoken with the building commissioner and the building inspector about this, too. And if there are questions about the application process and how to deal with things like the average grade and whether or not, like, the house is actually four stories. Because you probably can find a way to make a house two and a half stories without really changing the design. It just kind of depends on how the grade is calculated and what's considered the low grade. I do want to come up with sort of more precise definitions for those. And I think that will make this process easier because it is a challenging ask on a site like this. I'd like to have it here. The presentation for the garage was easy for us to approve. I think this one's going to be a lot harder. And I understand the situation with the little kids in a smaller house. So I want to find a way to make this workable. Thank you. Would this need to go to conservation after zoning? So I guess I'd have to ask, I mean, does the town, for the building commissioner, does the town allow for concurrent applications? Like, could he apply to the conservation commission with the same plan? And understanding that both the conservation commission and the zoning board would have to approve it. But one, is it necessary? And sort of two before the other, because if you have to go in order, you know, then the question is, which board do you apply to first? And that could make the permitting process for this stretch on for a long time. So we're going to top the existing dwelling. So it's there. So, but I would, have you reached out to conservation yet? I haven't because the reason why we're doing this project is because we can't expand horizontally. They're just not going to allow us to do that. So we decided to go off. I figured since we're going off. There would not be any objections from their end because it's not affecting anything outside. Well, there, there wouldn't be, I just, I don't, we don't even have a vehicle to approve it as a variance. Yeah, that's what you want. Yeah. But, um, no problem, but that is an interesting, it's an interesting, it's a, it's potentially a compelling case. I'd love to go off. Yeah. So at one point we wanted to be the last board. We wanted board of council, we wanted a road commissioner when there was one, we wanted conservation if possible. Correct. And then conservation was taking a lot longer just because of their caseload. So we were going ahead without conservation and then letting applicants go to conservation. So it's how. I'm generally in favor of that. I don't like putting applicants through like a year's worth of hearings to all these different boards for one product. I'd love to find a way. So because anything we approve can be conditioned on, you know, getting that conservation. If it's not. If it's not. If it's necessary. So it's like, I don't think there's any reason why it has to be done in any particular order. Does it seem like it's, does it seem like it's. It's nice to have a good faith estimate, a review of the project. So we have some parameters, you have some parameters to work off of. Um, and the same with, uh, health is okay with the, the amount of, um, space you're going to be adding to this for the septic system. Yeah. It's been approved. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. So I guess I'll, I'll withdraw, pull back to the drawing board. I'll get a grain calculation. Um, I still need to plan out the garage and we can just go from there. Yeah. And, um, as I said, try to find some, I guess, do some research on the question about like, what would, what would be considered a story? Because like, you know, I'd like for you to be able to get the space that you need for your family, but I'd like to see if we could find a, um, a pathway to do that that keeps us sort of, allows us to do a variance, but still keeps us kind of within, within the spirit of bylaw. So we need to vote on, we need to vote on that? Yeah, we have to have a motion. Okay. All right. So I make a motion that we allow, um, the applicant for, uh, work 25W to withdraw, uh, prejudice. Certainly. Uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? None? Okay. We don't have to write a decision on that, right? That's just like an administrative. Yeah. You can reapply at any point. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it. Hey, thank you. Mm-hmm. All right.
So, uh, Sean will be here in 15 minutes, and that was at 710. So he'll be here in about five minutes. So, um, do you want to go on to the next case? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go. All right. This is the, uh, next case, the 715 case for ZBA, uh, case 2607, 6 Winter Street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the property at 6 Winter Street, located in the single-resident R-20 district, the applicant seeks a renewable special permit under the Wayland Zoning Law to continue operating the Wayland Animal Clinic at this location. The clinic is operated continuously at its property until 1872, pursuant to a prior Zoning Board of Appeals approval. As part of this application, the applicant is requesting an amendment to the existing condition of approval to modify the permitted staffing levels. The current decision allows for a maximum of three doctors and six support staff on a premises at one time. The applicant proposes to amend this condition to allow for a maximum of four doctors and 13 support staff on a premises at one time. And the applicant is also requesting that the special permit be renewed for a 10-year period. All right, do we have anyone here for this? We have some personal questions. Hi, can you guys hear us? Yes, we can. Okay, I don't know if you can see us. Yes, we can see you. Okay, we're having some technology issues. So yeah, I'm Caroline Pinsky, the owner of the veterinary hospital. And this is my husband, George. He is one of the managers of the animal hospital.
So... Yes, so as you read, you know, we have owned the animal hospital since 2010.
And it's been a veterinary hospital on the site since 1972. And we are here to renew the special permit, hoping to get an extension to a 10-year special permit. And then also some adjustments. And the number of employees.
Is that everything?
I guess I have a question for the building commissioner before we go on. What is the article that regulates the home-based businesses?
In the bylaw, it is home occupation. Well, it's not really a home occupation.
It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. Oh, okay. Under business uses. So this is a... Is this a permitted business use in the single residence district? Or... I'm just trying to understand. I just want to understand what we really... I think it seems like a straightforward application. I'm just looking at the... Looking at this just trying to understand this only for the zoning district.
Thank you, sir. 11-02-2011. The prior decision in 2021 cited sections 201, 203, and then the table of permitted principal uses. Okay. And that this is in an R-20 single residence.
I'm asking this question. I just want to be sure that there are no impediments to us increasing the number of employees. I think that's the only... To me, that's the only question, I think, on this application. I just want to be sure we have a legal pathway to do that, given that it's not in the business district. Yeah. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. Okay. Which abuts the... Right next door is... It abuts the business district. The business district, yes. Okay. And then you have the Royal on the other side of this nursing facility. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of sandwiched in. And it did start in 1975 was the first ZBA hearing on this. So in 72, they had a variance for intake. 72? For use as an animal medical plan. Got it. So that's the underlying... That's the underlying... Okay. That's all I needed to know. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sorry to derail that. I just wanted to get that question out of the way. I guess, can you give us a quick high-level overview of what's kind of... Of what's behind, I guess, the need for the staffing increase? So... Business is good, right? Yeah. Business is almost overwhelming, especially since COVID. And we actually are a bit delinquent in coming to you sooner. We have... I think it's a combination of having gone paperless because all of the old doctors need technician support staff in the exam rooms for computers and COVID and so many people working from home and the increase in pet ownership. But we have... We are... Close to these staffing levels at this time. And so we are asking for something that... We are already staffing the building with these numbers. We had to add a receptionist for front desk phone management. We've had to add some technical staff to help support the doctors. We usually have two doctors in appointments all day and one doctor in surgery. And... So we are at these staffing levels. We're almost at what we're asking for at this time.
Are there any concerns with the available parking and sort of the staff levels that you have now? So it seems to be working out fine. A couple of the staff members have spouses that work there as well. So that cuts down on cars. So yeah, but five of us come in just two cars. We are tight, but we fit 12 to 13. We fit 12 to 13 cars in our back staff parking lot. And any given day, there may be a couple employees that are parked in our front main client lot. Which never fills up. Which doesn't fill. But it's working. I wish we had a little more space for parking, but it isn't impacting how we're functioning as a business. Yeah. Does anyone know why the... Why the renewal period was stipulated at five years? I think that's pretty standard. Think of Whalen Swim and Tennis. Think of other uses. It would go from a one-year term initially to then a five-year term to try it out. And then if it worked well, then it went to five and five. But with your Whalen Swim and Tennis recently, that was extended to a 10-year permit. Which... It was our memory when we purchased from Terry Perbaugh in 2010 that he had been moved up to the 10-year. I don't know that for certain, but we knew that, you know, I think we initially were at a one or two year, then a five. And then we were just, you know, it's not a big deal to us, but... When we first came to you, we asked for a five initially because the bank... Because we were purchasing, we were financing the purchase of the clinic, and they were a little nervous about a one-year. And so we wanted to get a five, and you granted it. Questions? Anyone else? I don't. There's someone from the community there. Oh, okay.
So I guess, yeah, can we... Is there... There's no one here in the room to speak, but it sounds like there's somebody online who's... Yes. Can you give us your name and address, please? Yes. My name is Natalia Good, and I'm at 13 Winter Street. So we live kind of diagonal to the bed clinic. We've lived at this address for the last 12 years. And for the most part, we've had... You know, decent relationship with the bed clinic. And we've been getting those regular mailings about the extensions for the clinic to, of course, operate. And we've never had any kind of issues except since COVID. And, you know, it was right to observe that the business did pick up in COVID. So my observations are that bed clinic, the ones that, based on my understanding, when they receive... When they receive the conditional approval to operate as a business, there were three conditions to be met. One of them was for the house to appear like a normal house, so not like a business. The second was for someone to stay in the house in case of a fire so the animals don't get hurt. And the third one, I cannot remember right now, but... And it's not to park on the street. Yes. Yes. So when it comes to the parking, what I've observed is the... The parking lot that was initially appearing as your standard driveway, actually, two lanes, it was expanded into four lanes. So at any given time, throughout the week, this week, in preparation for this meeting, I went by and I counted the number of cars. It was always 11 or 12 cars parked in the driveway, back to back, which does not look like a normal house to me. In addition, at the entry... So at the front entry of the business, there are these cones that kind of signal to the cars, to customers, not to block the entry. They also don't look like a normal house because these are like six cones in front of the entrance, and they're there permanently with the letters of Weyland Animal Clinic. And then third, they've built like an enclosing fence in the front, which looks strange. It does not look like your normal house. It's kind of like maybe three feet or four feet high of a fence that has a large container for doggy bags. And it makes sense why there's a doggy bag. But once again, it does not look like a house. It looks like, you know, a business. And finally, right next to the fence, there is a hydrant. So to me, this should not be even a question of expanding the scope. This should be a question of controlling the scope because I've been thinking about these kind of things over the years. And I wanted to kind of bring my concerns to the right forum. And this is why I'm here. And finally, I think it should be important to note that the owners of the vet clinic purchased the next house next door before the house was purchased next door. So a usual house, which they're currently renting out. We were warned by the seller that the scope will start growing as he leaves this house because he was the only one that was. So the previous owner of the house next door was kind of controlling to make sure that the vet clinic stays in scope and delivers on their promises. So I worry that without proper control of the vet, that the vet clinic is slowly growing out of scope. And the next thing that we will, if, you know, if we do allow for additional people to start parking, first of all, they will start parking on the street and which creates a different problem. I'm not, we have lots of different kids who are riding their bikes coming from Wayland Middle School, going to various like Starbucks is where this is a safe street for the, for the kids to pass through. And I just worry that those will be obstacles for the kids. Um, and it would be just a matter of an accident waiting to happen. So I ask you not to not only allow for additional people, but really consider putting some measures in place for the vet clinic to start delivering on their original promises.
Um, does that include me or do you mean, uh, yes. Any, any other public comments? Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I, I guess. Oh, okay. People from the public. Yeah. People from the public, people that we haven't heard from before yet. Yeah.
Okay. Not. Okay. Sorry. So, yeah. So that was the applicant that was speaking. Yeah. Yes. Okay. You can, uh, go ahead. You had a, you had a comment. Um, well, so I just want to, I guess I just want to address some of that. I do want to make it clear to everybody that we have been phenomenally strong and clear with our staff. That they are not to park on the street. Um, and, and I, I am confident that that isn't something every, every now and then I think a client will do that. Um, and we'll ask them to move the car, but the staff very much understands that they are not to park on the street. Um, you know, we are the, so the, the fence enclosure in the front that she brought up, um, we tried to do it. With as much, um, you know, awareness of, um, the look of the property. Um, we had a couple of, um, very scary situations with, um, you know, the front, the door to the hospital opening. Uh, we don't have a, uh, some vet hospitals will have like an enclosed double door entry and, um, a dog, you know, in a panic can slip through that door. And it was in part to try to protect my patients from then being on route 30, uh, in one of those chaotic moments where somebody's entering and someone's leaving. Um, and, and also during COVID, we were curbside. Um, it was a really, really difficult time for my team and for vet hospitals across the country. And we needed a place to meet clients and take intake histories. And then have them return to their car and bring the patient into the building. And that was our solution was to put up this sort of fenced in area. Um, um, trying to think, and I guess I'll also add, you know, we, we are again with the paperless, a lot of reliance on computers now. Um, and just the increased need of staffing. We, we are already operating at the staff levels that we're asking for. Um, and I also just want to say. I just want to point out generally to the town of Wayland. I think you guys know this, but the veterinary, you know, pet ownership has exploded nationwide and Wayland. We, there are three women who started a third private practice in Wayland that is now three veterinary hospitals in this town. We are all busting at the seams. Um, we have a wait list for clients. We are very willingly sharing, you know, we refer to other Dr. Silk or to auto vet regularly when we can't accommodate a puppy. That's overdue for vaccines. Um, the town is going to have a really hard time accommodating pets owned by the families that live in Wayland, um, without us operating at the level we are. And, and I, I understand, and I sympathize with our neighbor, um, but I feel a little bit stuck with, you know, how hard we're working to accommodate, you know, people who move into town and, and need veterinary care. So. I would like to point out. One more situation. There was a dog, a couple of years that ran away from your practice and entered not only my backyard, but into my house and to an open door. And I would prefer with increased, uh, increases in customers for those situations not to occur because I don't know, uh, the nature of, you know, these dogs and there are more kids on our street, our street turned over and kind of, when it comes to the population on the street. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that some of the kids, um, if, uh, if we were to take a look at a place like your Superintendent says this had never happened, it's a little bit of a surprise to see that they're expanding.
Yeah. I know, I guess I'm not aware of the incident. You're talking about, it must've been something that happened with a customer unrelated to, you know, what was going on in the building. I'm not aware of that. Um, I'm not sure. I don't know.
Right. Um, I guess one of the, so I guess one of the concerns I have, right, is that if I look at the special permit you're currently operating on. You're not supposed to have more than six employees, but you're telling us that you're currently operating with double that. And we're hearing from your neighbor that there is a parking problem. So I feel like the board's in a little bit of a box here because this is a business that's been there since 1972. So it's like no one on the rest of the board, but I'm not interested in sort of looking at the underlying reason why this is here and sort of modifying that. I think the business at this point has been in town since, again, that's a long time. So I don't have any issue with that. But I do have concern that it's currently operating vastly beyond the scope of the current special permit. And we're hearing from. Well, let me ask a quick question. How long have you been operating under your current expectation that it's been past the expectation of what the permit allows? So we did a little bit of digging. We're trying to figure out where that where that has happened. But it has happened sometime since 20. Well, sure. Yeah, I expected that you guys might ask that. And we weren't sure I went back to our payroll. It we only our our payroll only goes back to 2020 and we don't we didn't keep any of the paper records, but I did dig up. I know that we were already hitting over that level in twenty eighteen. I had written a letter to the the then commissioner, the building commissioner explaining because we were looking at buying a. different building on West Plain Street and and we were already over it at at twenty eighteen. I mean, it's clearly something that we should have noticed when we came to you guys for the twenty twenty one permit. We didn't think of it. It wasn't discussed. I wish we had. There's no excuse for that.
But it was before then at some point. We just don't know. And then I think. Covid exacerbated whatever it was because because we used to be open later, you know, our hours are till seven. But when Covid hit and people, you know, we we had to condense our hours and that meant that people were actually there more. You know, we had there were more people there at the same time than prior to that. We had that makes sense. We had a few shifts for many years where people would work a part day and then there was a. Closing shift that would come in and now we're condensed in a like an eight to five. Um, day currently, and that did play a role in how many people are there. I'm concerned with the fact that you've been operating outside of your permit for quite some time now. Yeah, I I can't I can't know this. I feel like it came up somewhat loosely at the in the during Covid with the meeting. I thought that there was some discussion about that with. The panel. Um. I mean, we yeah, we should we should have a long time ago and I'm assuming everybody would have been reasonable and we would have gotten to some. Good feedback and everything we just and parking, you know, parking has changed also, um. The church down the street. With Terry per bar and I think the previous owners, um, and I think in the first year with us had had allowed my employees to park in the church lot and they. Um, they pulled that. Off. Well, they asked for a lot of money and well, yes, I did not. Um, so that's when we started having a lot more of an issue with with where to where to allow employees to park. It's not it's not in the it's not in the material that you have, but is there any ability to expand the parking on your site? I'm sorry. The ability to expand the parking on your property. Is there an ability to do that? Maybe by a couple of spaces? Yeah. I don't think by much. Um, I mean, I don't think by much, maybe a few spaces we have that, you know, the septic is in the backyard. Um, we have the house. Driveway. And we have the front main parking lot. I drive by you guys place all the time. Whenever I go to Donalyn's or if I'm cutting over to 30 or anything along those lines, like I drive by on the regular. And. You know. For it to look like a house, it looks like a house to me. So I'm not I have no issue with that part. The fact that you guys are fully packed up with cars is something that I've definitely noticed over the years. And I wouldn't be surprised if I counted at least 10 or 11 ish cars just on your right side lot, not including the full parking lot on the left side. I think parking is a major problem for you guys. And I'm not sure how you guys are going to sort of rectify that. But. You know, those are, those are just a couple of thoughts from things that I've seen just going to Donalyn's or, you know, driving about town. Anybody else on the board? Well, I was going to say that. I am. I'm a Don one's regular and right. Well, it's not Walgreens and a post office gets you to a post office and bank. And. And I used to. Travel down there often. For my animals. Which, which no longer with us. But I, I see it variable. I don't see it always packed. I see often there's spaces and sometimes. Not infrequently often many spaces. I think it's, it could be scheduling and it could be some emergencies. Whatever. There in our earlier decisions. There was already. The. Decision made. To. Not require any residents in the. Attached home. Or the adjacent home. And it is. In a residential character, not in significantly different from the other. Other homes. Having fencing is. Mr. Commissioner. Yes. Fencing is by right. Yes. Yeah. I'm looking at the fence and it looks like it's. For. Yeah. Or. Yeah. Maybe some. Right. Up to 60 meters. Usually what is by, right. And. Yeah. Yep. Six feet and under. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing that. Should be. Understood is, is. Part of the right of the, the owner. And. And with, with 13 staff that is. And you were up. Upfront about stating that. There. to find about stating that in your application it is um it is double plus one of what was in your earlier permit and understanding what happened through covid and understanding how the population has grown it's not um unreasonable to understand how your numbers have grown and
um wondering if there's any uh what i am wondering is if there's any scheduling that could be um used to help reduce um to space that out a little bit more or um i mean that that's that's your option but i certainly understand with animals you do have you do need more support staff and it's the vets cannot be that support staff the best themselves so go ahead under one piece you know one of the big concerns from the abutter was that their dry way is you know is often over packed with cars i see that but for our driveways if we want to park you know 20 cars in our driveway we're entitled to do so so i don't really see why having too many cars that aren't like dripping fuel on the ground or something uh is is an issue also um i'm curious for the applicants uh can you sort of guess what percentage of your customer of your um patients are whaling residents
i mean we could find that out um i would say i mean if i mean it would be a guess but i would probably say 70 to 80 probably 80 percent for any other business would we ask residents you know what your is your how much of your clients are residents there's an is the issue cause by an increase of animals that are there is essentially citizens of this town it's a business oh also i know these somethings since 1972 i live in that neighborhood the only complaint that i'm not seeing is the one that the lady since 1972 this clinic how to the neighborhood very very highly um for whomever have certified their claim then supporting their necessary action they're electric vehicles than for cars and vehicle safety services and CPU boost and Dongo laws so that even different Pennsylvania ever had they went to this clinic they're always not very fortunate that the clinic is here so i mean with one accident i don't want to just uh kind of create an issue uh that that's it and every day is going to happen accidentally so i mean accidents happen everywhere here and there but it doesn't mean that you know what we have to just kind of uh close the business or put restrictions on or so that you know what because of one act but this is this has been there since 1972 so everything is changing in the town population is changing more crowded more traffic and everything so i mean if you relate this one picture to every other picture you see that it's similar situation so it's not any different than others so i don't see any issue that you know as far as the business goes or growing businesses i mean it's it's helping the neighborhood i mean it's in the city veterinary clinic in in in town and there are a lot of people who take it and use that clinic for to care for their animals
i want to give a second just to the public comment because i think there was another question yeah is there is there a question i wanted to make sure it came back yeah um no i just wanted to mention that the the the gate doesn't look like a gate on any other house uh you would not see it's not it's not a common gate and also it is put there uh it's blocking hydrant so this hydrant is unusable at this point so it's also violating the rule yeah that's a can we that's a movie that's a fire department issue that wouldn't be something we could we could deal with here um can you hear us yes a hydrant is decorative we this was a sort of a humorous thing that came up when we purchased the hospital from dr perbaugh because nobody could figure it out and we literally had a i think we had the fire department come out and they lifted it up it's it's a decorative piece therefore we painted it it was funny for dogs to urinate on it is not a fire hydrant just so i just if it's bothering anyone we can get rid of it
all right do you want them for us to have a courteous of course relationship i just feel that from my position from our position is so grown up and we've been out for a long time and we've had months of especially growing up with kids when we're the first kids we're like three and a half years old we've been doing it since we were little we've been taking our dogs from our lives and we've been watching our dogs we've been looking at them and we've been seeing their behavior and they've been telling us that they need to go on a walk we'll keep joining them they need to do it we're the first dogs we've had in the world we've held dogs for years and we've been in scope for years you haven't approached us as a good neighbor or to even get to talk to us um and you've decided that after many years you just want to expand it and just using the language to say well we've been here since 1970 and i understand i love dogs myself but i wanted to be a productive conversations where it's that you don't just choose to expand that you don't just choose to expand them scope just because you've claimed the territory you know 40 years ago it's just not the right thing to do i what i would like to see is for you to start correcting some of the things that um you have not been doing correctly in fact um and to your earlier point when you said yes we could all park many cars i am yet to see a wayland driveway with four lanes this is like a highway at this point with 12 parked cars so please don't tell me that uh it's a standard practice to park that many cars it is a standard practice at the party but not on a daily basis yeah but it's legal but if it's in their driveway it's in their driveway you know it doesn't look like a normal house it looks this house does not look like a normal house it's it's a multi-use property so it is permitted so from from that perspective i i understand why in the what on that but in the i was more concerned along the lines of the if we were to do the expansion what would that look like for additional parking for those additional personnel it sounds like we've been running out of compliance already but correct that's well that's the that's my concern we have yeah that's a major don't have enough parking for the we don't have enough parking now and our decision is based on having uh what is it three doctors and six staff we have a request to have four four doctors and 13 staff so it's you said we have parking now but they said that the parking lot is often is typically not full so yeah we do have enough parking now yeah there's yes the driveway and the customer parking lot right in the front which i understand the driveway and stuff is the one i think them but immediately it's asking the question about that that's reserved for employee parking clearly and i will say this every time i've driven by i've never seen a car on the street parking for the street parking i've personally never seen it never yeah so i do have to give the applicant credit for that and the four bets are at a time when there's a change in style it's not it's just four bets so just respond just responding to yeah concerns that are being raised um all right well i don't have any additional questions um i don't i don't think we need any additional material i think i'm i think we can close the i think we can close the commentary and kind of deliberate what we're going to do here i think that's appropriate all right um so i'm torn because i think this is a completely reasonable request and i respect that the applicant wants to sort of formally modify the situation that they find themselves in i'm dismayed that like you know it is it's a doubling of the scope that's happened over the past couple years so i feel like the neighbor is right to be upset about that um that said you know the underlying the underlying case of the uh the business you know in use since 1972 uh i'm very sympathetic to that i'm also sympathetic to the fact that i mean this is it's it might be in a residential district but this is fundamentally a business area you know if this structure has front door facing main street the address would be you know a particular road it would be winter street so i i i sort of i i understand all the concerns about this but i i think there's a pathway to to improve this um this request i do have concerns about this anterior period because what we're hearing is that been an increased densification of the use and sort of it's kind of gone unchecked so I'm wondering if we want to look at the increase you know codifying increase of the kind of the doubling of population but maybe the permit is a two-year permit and we give it we give a chance to sort of to see how this goes because this is a request to double the density but it but it has also been ongoing and demonstrated we could go with a five-year permit unofficially enough yes unofficially not officially enough correct also I would like to mention also for the parking situation there are a lot of business in that area they don't even have parking they park on the street so you have a bank then you have a child bank has their own partner yep you have a bank
and then you have the nursing home
there are a lot of businesses before that but they have designated parking in front of them that's a street they have designated parking this isn't it isn't like they are blocking 27. but these are not blocking this this clinic is not blocking it that for me that that I look at that differently because there are technically designated parking spots by the town in which there has been accountability of traffic and and usage and so on and so forth if you look at a parking area of a residence that there are 10 cars what is the difference just because it's not business it's okay but for the business situation we never had any problem with this place I'm not saying I'm not saying anything against it I just want to be cautious based off of I think that because it's been running
pretty much illegally for the amount of personnel for now I'm going to call it six years based off what the applicant said I'm going to get me pervasive stuff with that they've been running six years out of scope of their originating permit and what has been allowed and what do you do about that what that is for that I understand that but like we're fixing it now okay which I which I think is fantastic and updating it and everything like that but you know there has to be what's the accountability for I just I guess yeah updating something like that there's there's no more there's no there's no there's no more at this point but you know what I'm saying what prevents someone else from doing that and then coming here and you know being like oh nothing nothing but there are no precedents set with real estate so you cannot always do that I for me because of the situation I think a one-year permit with an official expectation on it and the an approval of the new staff to see how things are going no later than two years but it definitely should not be five either I think five is too much considering what has been going on unofficially and we need an official way to be that's my I I have that same concern yeah but like we have yeah we have an evidence of someone basically exceeding the underlying variance in special permit by a factor of 200 over five years so in my mind uh you know I think a reasonable middle ground between the the situation that we have would be uh I'd be fine with two years but I think it's I think it's important that we codify like the increased density and we put a put a period on that period is there to basically evaluate and to make sure that there continues to be a productive dialogue between you know this business and their neighbors and you know which is something that we've done in the past correct that's typical right it's not atypical for us to be able to do something like that and you know for what they do I think it's fantastic what they do I mean I am a huge dog lover myself I love cats too but I'm a preferred dog guy and you know what I mean like I I am I'm Mr. Puppy you know I can't help myself I gotta pet every dog that walks by you know but at the same time you have to be considerate and thoughtful of what the surroundings are and and comply with what you're approving in an official capacity first and once you can do that then you're then given the graces of larger terms okay I'm paying on to you I would I mean generally I agree with you I would get a lot of respect from the public because of the money we pay for the dogs that we give you you know we we use a lot of money to buy our animals but we're saying the work is well done we're doing it right and we're paid at the highest level because we care a lot about the future and we know how to make sure that we're doing good and we're doing it well and but the I don't think we're paying for the life of our animals and I wouldn't believe that there would be any other ways that we could do that we would want toράiing in not in accordance with the permit that's been in place however based on you know the nature of their business they're growing because the population of dogs in this town are growing and I don't think it's great that's a problem I think the problem is not having no else here so I mean I don't think penalizing a local local that who is obviously highly regarded and liked in the town is uh it is something that we should we should do i'm okay with i understand that idea of you know um a two-year permit to you know examine what's going on yeah what uh how the parking essentially the parking issue is affected um and and going from there i think that's a smart thing to do i guess um with that i would make a motion for application 2607 uh to renew the renew and amend instead of amending it here without consulting with the applicant do we want to get the applicants uh thought on that before and whether or not they'd be amenable for that no i'll take that way okay i'd like to i'd like to at least give us you know give an opportunity that's all yeah because we need to deliberate i mean we've deliberated and i don't believe we've come to a consensus so i think it's important to act okay uh did we renew the i'm trying to get the right way to phrase this motion did we amend the existing special permit to allow for four doctors and third nurses to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed on on the premises um and we knew this special permit for a two-year period with the other condition that um none of the other underlying conditions of the original variance with decision modified second okay um all in favor aye aye aye opposed okay so we've we've reached this point where we're going to move We've amended and renewed this special permit. We have a 14-day process to write this decision, and then there is a 20-day appeal period. After that, you can pick up the decision and file it.
So hopefully this process will allow you to have kind of a little bit of a dialogue with your neighbor over these two years and see if we can kind of make this all amenable and workable. So thank you. Thank you. So what is the procedure now? Did we say already how many days to write it? Yeah, 14 days and 20 days. Great. Okay. All right. So with that, we can move on to our not making good time tonight, to our 730 case. This is DBA case 2638, 32-foot road. This is the application of Mary and Brian Farley for the property of 32-foot road, both living in the single residence R30 district. The applicants seek a special permit. The property is pre-existing, non-conforming with respect to the lot area and frontage. The proposed structure would have a side yard setback of approximately 6 feet along Millbrook Road, where 30 feet is required. And the applicant is therefore requesting zoning and living. The proposed barn would have a height of approximately 23 feet, and the lot coverage would increase from 9.1% to 13.6%, which remains below the limit. The maximum for the lot coverage in the district. So we asked someone to present this case to us tonight. It's me. Thank you for your patience and for kind of waiting. So just give us your name and address, please. My name is Mary Farley. I'm resident 30 Chichitit Road, and my husband, Brian Farley, had to resume. Hi, everybody. Hi, Brian Farley.
Great.
So could you give us a quick... I read the free interval there, but if you can give us an overview, what you're looking to do with that would be great. Okay. So good evening, everyone. Thank you for hearing our application. We are respectfully requesting from the Zoning Board of Appeals setback relief through hopefully a special permit or any other necessary permissions to build a traditional post and beam barn on our property of 30 Chichitit Road well within the 30-foot setback. And so it will run 11... It's a long Millbrook Road, and if you have the plot plan in your packet, you could see the placement that we're proposing along Millbrook. The property does not currently have any garage or car storage. We don't have much outdoor storage at all. We have a small shed. And so this would be a detached car garage with a storage block. It will be a traditional barn that will have two garage doors on the gable end facing our driveway. And so it will... It will be a garage, but it is a barn. This will not have plumbing or interior finishes at all. It will have electricity, but it will not be habitable space in any way. It will not be insulated. Briefly, we've lived at this property since 2013. This property is a single-family home. It was built in 1818, and it sits on the corner of Millbrook and Chichitit across from the Wayland Public Safety Building. So it is one of the sort of main homes in the Wayland Historic District, it's the yellow property across from the Public Safety Building. We really enjoy living in this historic building. We, you know, purchased a historic house on purpose because we enjoy the idea of being stewards of this historic property, and we try to be very thoughtful about its history and its position on the main street. You know, if we make any changes, we certainly want to enhance the property in the area and not detract from the character of the neighborhood in any way. So this is our home. So this barn will be storage and workshop space, as I said. But we did actually search through historic records to see if there had been any outbuildings on the property or a barn in the past. There probably was, but we couldn't find any records. But we feel like this placement might have been where a barn might have been located because it's traditionally sort of back and behind the house, the way barns often are in the historic, in the New England area. So this will be storage for two cars and stuff like snowblowers and lawnmowers. It also will have an 8x21 lean-to, enclosed lean-to on the back. So it's a 24x30 barn with an 8x21 lean-to on the back. It will hopefully be some workshop space. So we really need the storage space for the cars, especially after, like, this winter. This is what prompted us to do this. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. This property will help keep the parcel residential in the long term. As I mentioned in the summary. Somebody mentioned to me that when we bought our house, they said that one of the proposed buyers wanted to turn it into the law office or something. And some of the properties in the historic district have been converted into offices and so they were commenting that it was nice to have some of the buildings remain residential, and so we think that this will enhance our versatility of how these homes will be Scenic. our enjoyment of the property as well as for future homebuyers. As we mentioned, it will not be habitable space, so this will just be storage and no other uses. But we would like to add the storage lot above for things like patio furniture and that sort of thing that we don't have. Our basement does not have a bulkhead to the yard. We have no access to the basement from the yard, so that kind of thing would be nice to be able to put in the upper part of the bar. So why we're requesting a special permit, the lot is extremely non-conforming. It's a huge, long rectangle. Well, it's not huge. It's a long rectangle. And so the frontage on Chichuit Road is only about 76 feet wide, and it widens just a hair at the back by about two feet. And so already it's only about half of the 150-foot required length of a standard lot. And because we have frontage on two main streets, I believe that the setback on both of those roads would be 30 feet. And as you can see, sort of the envelope of the setback envelope shown on the dotted line on the plot plan shows that really anywhere else on the property that we would place any other outbuildings would really be, you know, I mean, we can't put it in the front yard. That wouldn't be right. But so anywhere. backyard it would really be interfere with the usability of the backyard and interfere with any sight lines from the house to the backyard and that sort of thing so because we currently have a driveway turnout there um there's even a little basketball hoop shown on the plan we hoped that by just simply placing the entrance to the barn where the driveway turnout currently is we would make as few changes to the property as possible no curb cuts no other additional you know major changes we certainly we are very thoughtful about being neighbors of the public safety building we don't want to interfere with first responder vehicles going in and out and so the current driveway placement is is working and so um this seems to us to be pretty much the only viable place to build a building of this size on the property um so let's see um we also felt that our house is currently right on the property line on the north side um to our neighbors the davidsons and so we had considered putting it trying to somehow you know abut it to the house but that would bisect the yard you would have to have the driveway going across the backyard and it would just be very awkward and not to mention it would be on the property line of the neighbors and interfere with them so this is the most vibrant um there does seem to be precedent in the historic district for this kind of placement simply because of the you know non-conformity of many of the lots and buildings in the area um several of the lots have uh barns or out the links right on the property lines or within traditional subjects um the barn i didn't have i had enough design to include in the application but we have since gotten the engineer drawing to a hundred carpenters um so it will be a very traditional post and beam barn you know built in the antique style that historic district is known for and certainly in keeping with the character of the buildings in the area and so it will be a new building but we're doing all we can to sort of make it look bold and look appropriate for the area uh we think that painting it a dark red um similar to the color of the wheel and depot sort of or maybe the bastions bar next to the depot is also a nice deep red um with red garage doors and reds it would be all red no white trim or anything like that would help it not only sort of blend into the background a little more nicely but also um match what is currently in the historic district uh let's see um and so hopefully it will appear as though it's you know a barn that's been on the property for a long time and was perhaps converted into a garage at some point along the way um the stockade fence that runs along the road will be at least partially removed for construction and then will be rebuilt so the barn will be obscured by the fence and we hope to add landscaping we've struggled with landscaping there because it's um plowed and salted so often because of the fire safety building that it's hard to get you know much to grow because there's just so much salt along the road but we do plan to add landscaping and more evergreens um to help with um you know just making it look more in place and more uh also the fact that this is it's a building from country carpenters which is a company in connecticut that does these sort of post-immune kits and so we hope that construction will actually be quite quick once it starts minimizing the need for trains and trucks and that kind of thing on the property might interfere with the public safety building so um the board of health wrote us a letter that said they don't we are on the town sewer they're not on septic anymore they're one of the few residences that are have septic system that will be affected at all and it won't be you know there won't be plumbing anyway the sewer connection is on the side of the house in the front yard by Millbrook I included a picture so the construction shouldn't interfere with that at all and the conservation commission has also confirmed that we don't have any wetlands or anything on the property we will be applying to them under the stormwater and land distribution land disturbance bylaw because of the I think it's more than 500 square feet but we have a drainage plan and we're you know consulting on that and we'll get permission on that and we also uh have one support letter from our neighbors and I think my other neighbor would have emailed you so we um had support from partners and so we hope that this will you know add and not detract from the character of the neighborhood um be in keeping with the historic nature and make it livable for ourselves and future family thank you
um yeah I'm online but um no additional comments I think Mary covered it all thank you um and no comments from the public thank you that was a great presentation um so it is um slightly eminently reasonable proposal it's just a little slightly challenging but I've been been doing some some digging in uh the zoning code and I think I found a path for a special permit for this this project um I don't have any questions um for the applicants I have some comments that I can relate to the board uh about the applicability of this um but I don't know if anyone has any on the forest did you guys see the butter letters i i trust that they i have one dude i'm sure
and i think there are two online and they're both uh
so i have here both both letters are in support yeah i have one question so are you in the historic district yes do you need to go before the htc yes have you already done that no okay so it's waiting for this yeah yeah so you have to yeah getting getting an approval here just uses your password absolutely yes we just figured we would see how this goes yeah yeah well i think it's appreciable yeah i actually have consulted with um a couple of um historians that i know and stuff like that upon the design and got generally favorable comments and given some feedback that we made some changes so we're open to there right there okay um all right so uh it's an accessory structure but it's a lot that's technically on two streets but interestingly um section 706.1 gives the board discretion to waive setback requirements on it on one of the two streets if you grant a special permit under section 203 so my initial thought on this application was that this would have to be a variance request or an accessory structure in what would be the front yard if you consider millbrook um it's a lot on two streets no one you know working to issue it um but i think 706.1 if we if we look at this through uh section 203 of straightforward special permanent it gives the cba the discretion to sort of reduce that setback to what we deem reasonable but it must meet the frontage requirement on one street but i think it's a pre-existing non-conforming line in a list so that might be a little tortured but that's how i that's how i i think you could approve this with a special permanent in louisville variance plus you meet the frontage on one street you do yeah 253 feet you made it on on milk or no room so yeah i know this was a question that the building inspector raised so um but yes i i'm comfortable that we can make that interpretation under 706.1 because i think if this were a variance they don't know that we have a property challenge that we could wrestle with to accommodate this no 706.1 covers it okay and this is similar to something that you didn't hear but at school and commonwealth and east east plain similar situation three sides but the house was conforming and washed so you did not have to hear it but same situation okay any comments from the board um i think it was incredibly thorough you know thought out uh well planned presentation yeah um i think that should be a product for that um yeah we don't usually get uh packets as complete in presentations maybe you could outsource your skill to some of the other applicants we put her on retainer
most of the beam is going to be gorgeous oh that's going to be great the design i think the design is is nice i think it's actually going to look good actually behind the fence just as they're proposing it it's probably going to look like it's something that's been there for a long time when it's completed so yeah okay um so looking at that um i i make a motion that uh the board has determined that the accessory structure for which the application is made its not against the public interest it doesn't derogate through the character of the neighborhood in which such youth-building structure occurs and it's not detrimental or offensive because of noise-vibration-smoke-gas-root or dust or other objectionable features and if the proposed accessory garage is not otherwise injurious in whether you have an institute towered or property that are being Participard to the public health or safeties um and that because of that we can approve a special permit under 203.1 referencing section 706.1 the waiver requirement for the setback on the side um and that uh the project needs to obtain approvals from other boards as required it needs to be constructed in substantial conformity with the application submitted certainly all in favor all right opposed none so you go you have your special permit amazing thank you very much there is a it takes 14 days to write it and then there's a mandatory 20-day appeal period after that then from there you can pick up a decision that's set to go and then uh store commission approval here's your application okay thank you very much everyone nice job thank you very much from your house that you've saved for the history of it this would be a nice thing to add to it yeah you never find it maybe it's on a very loud that's great thank you all right so this brings us on to the next case which is the 745 variant from cba 609 35 street work road this is the application of llama and syrian blossom robin for the property of 35 the applicant seeks a special permit under the dialogue for renovating the existing single family dwelling including including the rear addition of the construction of the second floor the proposed project will increase the lot coverage from approximately 14 to 23 exceeding the 20 percent maximum lot coverage the existing dwelling is on a previous issue non-showing clock that inspects minimum lot area and frontage requirements so you can come up and introduce us up and tell us about your project chair and board my name is go on campus party laundry lab saugus i'm representing the owner uh also i have an updated uh plot plan uh we did make a change on the deck so i have seven copies here that i want to add to the record as well okay yeah the vectors on the back we made a change to it um we kind of made it a wrap around We enlarged 26 to 99, there's a 26 to 10. It was 26 to 10, it's now 25 to 99, 26 to 99. They didn't have . . So this is 35 Sniper and then . This is 109 Andrew. . But this says 26 to 99. Yeah, yeah, and that dropped out. But then this became 26 to 99. Oh, so this 26 to 99, this is dead. Andrew, it's not here anymore. . Yeah. . I understand. But we have two cases named 26 to 99. Yes, and so it's got one number. So this is not in front of the board anymore. Okay, so I can throw this old 26 to 99 away. Yes, you can throw that away. . I got it. I got it. Reduce the amount of paper. This was 26 to 10, but it's now 26 to 99. I don't remember. . So I'm sorry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . proposed project, we will increase the log coverage from approximately 14% to 23%, exceeding the 20% maximum log coverage. Setbacks will remain the same, so we're moving the addition just along the existing footprint on the main massing of the existing structure, and then the addition to the back will all be within the required setbacks. And if you can see on the surveyor, he also has the log coverages. So the log coverages, just for the dwelling in the proposed additions, actually made 18.6%. The additional will be because of the pergola and the proposed pool that we'll be going. We will extend to that 23%. So we're seeking to leave from 20% to an additional 3% log coverage. So I'm... So I'm... have a question yeah um on the plans i believe it's showing that you're demolishing the house well uh not all of the house but pretty much a large percentage of it so what is it so it's so from the interior it's going to be a complete renovation from the interior okay yeah so what the plan is is to do is a complete uh you got renovation open up the existing first floor uh create an employer adding uh relocating the kitchen area uh near living room with an office downstairs with like a nice big family room and then as you go upstairs to the second floor so we'll have uh four four bedrooms which one is the master um so the owner has a big family and he's thinking for this to be
is there a basement there is a basement okay i guess i'm just trying to figure out where the so the gross for it says 2509 is the is it a full four basement does it cover the it's gonna yeah it's gonna be full okay so again my question was because on the a0.1 it says demo mm-hmm and then it says demo basement demo first floor demo roof yeah so at the basement we're gonna uh demo the back wall uh because he wants when he's building the addition he wants to have that as a all open space yeah uh well he wants to have a study there but other than that it's going to be additional open space so yeah so we'll demo the back wall so pretty much the back wall from the back of the property that's going to be completely down and then the roof as well and and then here so like the structures that are going to remain is the garage pretty much is going to remain unchanged uh we might do some modifications right now we have three doors we might go back to two doors um that's just kind of small design and then that front and the side wall we're gonna we're pretty much in it um have you do you know if the applicants has shared the plans with um the neighbors uh i am not sure i'm not sure i don't know if there was any any feedback from any of the neighbors what is the total height of the building 33 feet 33 yeah
it's not in i don't see it in here i see it going up to 20 feet and then it's oh i think that was because there was some updated uh revision so that that was brought in after uh yeah but it is 33 feet is it's not it's not going to be finished or anything like that is just spooky it was just additional start if you need some a2 so it's a two yeah all right it's on the cover sheet as well on the cover of the application yeah but it's actually oh so yeah so uh that's not good yeah well we i brought in some updated plans sorry uh those are online yeah yeah okay sorry about that when were those submitted uh
so we had two submissions the last we have march 19th and then april 1st
and march so the one stamp april 1st is the new york yeah yes
although there is a discrepancy on the height uh on the cover sheet you have 35 feet here and then on a2 you have 33 feet there's a couple different voices where i'm kind of guessing a different yeah yeah the single storage house right now will be the two stopping yeah so the reason i was asking about the if you if the applicants have shared the plane with the neighbors like this is sort of dramatically bigger in scale than any other house in this neighborhood looking at the street view that's it's these are these are mostly these are mostly kind of flat single-story pretty small homes and this is this is substantially larger than than the other homes in the neighborhood um that's not necessarily said that's the problem but um it's the kind of thing that i would i would typically expect to see if an applicant is going to do something like more than double the size of a house that they would so of run that by or sort of at least you know include the feedback of potential feedback of the neighbors or at least make them aware of that it's a public process the neighbors are free to sort of determine this um but i i have i have some concerns about the size of this application based on the fact that the neighborhood seems to all be so they all to me look like single story homes of under two thousand square feet looking at that but if you look down snake brook yeah i was gonna say snake all the other houses have a second story they have second stories okay so the the house is definitely around the perimeter of this dwelling our single uh story um but if you go down snake brook there's several there's many houses that have uh a second story
yeah three years ago there were a few second floors additions in that area that came well in front of us i'm not saying that's a problem i'm just saying this is this is still noticeably larger and taller than all the other two-story homes that are three or four doors down right from this i'm just saying the standard the standard for this project is is the character of the neighborhood that's the state for this particular project i'm going to get them um because this is the this is governed by plural 1.1.2.3 so that standard is a little different from kind of 201 but about 203. okay 27 as you go down there is some two-story homes yep for sure um 26 snake brook uh probably three or four years ago did a very similar expansion to the home yeah they have a big pretty big addition up to on top of the garages as well pretty big on the photo just for reference yeah yeah
yeah what we were trying to do there so it's when i maintain i uh we did a six pitch so we can maintain a good pitch but you're right because of the mass thing it you know it gives it a good fight but there's not much really you know i could lower it one thing if you think that scale wise i think you'll be better maybe you can lower the pitch a little bit i think this is the next game so the price is fixed yeah yeah that's right two-part garage this is a three-car garage that's something similar where there is um a larger home from the and then we're such other folks that have two stories but they're scales in class and the proposed home had three car garage while others have two car garages and you ask for a section yeah everyone in the neighborhood yeah and uh the garage actually may have a point uh the garage actually the size of the garage actually remains the same we just add an additional door just for ease of use uh but that's actually something that we were actually talking about maybe even changing because it leaves a small space in between each car um and i think there's two doors or two door connections probably better but that's something like design where we were still talking about not completely finally well we shouldn't be seeing plans that aren't completely finalized well it's because it's something that came up as just uh when we were talking about actually today we were revising the plan uh so you know we added the third door because that's originally what he wanted but as we were looking at the plan the owner today and talking about it just because if you see it gives about two feet from each side and then in between each door it's about six uh eight and six to eight inches so uh it's kind of nice right exactly i i guess i i mean my my inclination is probably to continue this because we have we have some confusing documents it's not completely not necessarily complete information um and i guess like i have a question for the building commissioner that um this i understand it's not sort of set up that way but this appears to be like a teardown of an increasing home that's what i'm for yeah at a practical level so that's my i'm just it's extensive repair okay extensive alteration this was characterized as a remodeling yes your comfort is not a teary-eyed little bit of redone it's just a different way of analyzing it if it is yes i mean they're they're keeping the the front you're keeping the front you're taking the roof off adding the second story flowing out the back wall going with an addition on the back so it's i don't think it's a teardown i mean it's a remodeling in a larger larger scale
yes What is the definition of difference between the teardown versus a remodel? A teardown is simply down to the foundation and a rebuild. This is a major alteration. Also, teardown, I remember in the past, they had to get us two permits, one for tearing it down, so hard up the bridge, and then for... A demolition, yes. We're not asking for that permit for teardown. No, it's part of the scope of work. Yeah. I guess in terms of the final design, as I said, I think it makes sense to continue this, and we get a final set of plans reflecting exactly what you want with some of the missing information that's been noted. Does that make sense to the board? I think that's a good path forward. Is you amenable to that? Yeah. Also, may I add, although there are no neighbors to complain about this, but if you have a chance, or if the residents have a chance, just to ask the neighbors to say how they feel about it, it would be a great support for you. Yeah. Just so you're aware, I actually know a lot of the neighbors in the area, and I'm in there a lot. They're a very tight-knit community, so I would probably be able to tell you really quickly whether or not they're for or against it when you talk to one and just start talking to them. I would definitely talk with them, and they're very reasonable, so I'm not a problem with it. All right. So, yes, with that. So, what other comments that you had from the design? No, I guess because I don't necessarily know what the design is at this point. I'd like to see what the final design is, and then we can sort of address any of those comments. Yeah, the only additional change that we were speaking about was actually the garage doors, and that's something that you brought up as well. Yeah. Okay. And that's just because the spacing, you know, and putting in a car in, it will be a little bit tight with the three doors. I think it makes more sense where it is two doors, and we don't want to make it any more nonconforming where it's bending it to the side or anything like that. All right. Our next meeting is May 12th, correct? Yes. Okay.
So, I'd make a motion that we continue ZDAK's 0.609 for 35 to May 12th at 710. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right. So, we just have to sign a continuation for it? Not for a special permit. Not for a special permit? And you will need to have your final documents to the building department zoning by the 6th of May. And if you do not have them for that, by that date, then we will not hear you for your next meeting. Have everything complete. Have all the dates. Have all your measurements. Have your heights. Everything is complete. Yeah. The highest, everything else is not changing. Yeah. So, we have conflicting numbers on cover sheets and stuff. So, just make sure that everything is... On the application? Yeah. Everything that is complete. Got it. So, we're really getting a new plan this year, right? Yes. You'll be getting new plans. Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you for talking. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, any board comments or concerns?
Do you have any updates for the building commissioners? I do. I have one. Oh, here it is. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you on this nice, sweltering day. We are attempting to go online with our online application for a zoning board. We are attempting to go online with our ZBA application to open gov. So, we have 98% completed all our billing applications from commercial to residential. And we are looking to involve the ZBA application to our open gov application status. So, that's big news. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah. And then... We were part of that too. Errors. And... Yeah. I noticed something. Yes. That's... It's the ZBA application for average natural grades. It will be AI... Alliance. It will be AI corrected. So, anything that comes in, it will be checked for . No, I'm kidding. Really? That'd be great. That would be fantastic. Yeah. So, 33 feet, 35 feet. No. But that's a big move, and that Tom is my cohort that's done a great job. And we have Tygen Bond working with our other departments to appropriate DPW help. and everyone so we all can be on the same level great exciting yes our permits uh on open government district everything 98 about existing permits sorry no so all our paper permits if anyone wants to review their file they have to come to break these substantial money to you know yes a lot of towns have done it but it was talked about when i came on board going on nine years and then it never came to fruition but just like all our zba files these all could be scanned and digitized they reference it's a lot of paper there's a lot of paper so if i wanted to get older file information like on five concrete road the library which we've done
and i've got some more questions from the uh from the current director of the uh structure so um we're looking for pre-1988 plans for the basement the first floor and the um and the message the mezzanine is pretty much the same but um i'm really looking at the basement and first floor and how it looks really look at the place going down we can look again
yeah it's the library library there's no other matters that i'm uh unaware of so uh someone want to make a motion move to adjourn second time all in favor all right opposed
I guess with that, I make a motion to approve the minimum minutes of March 10th, 2025. Second. Since we're all here, we just do no easing to do this by local. So all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. All right. So we're going to approve it. With that, let's wait another couple of minutes for Sean to arrive before we start our first case. Again, we're going to report this.
If we don't see him in two minutes, we'll just go. That implies that he's probably not going to be here within two minutes. Yeah. So I think we should get started. All right. We'll just have to make sure that all the applicants are allowed to do that. I understand. All right. So this is the 7 p.m. application for a ZBA case 26-06-125W Road. This is the application of Claire and Paul Lorette for the property of 125W Road located in the single arch from the district. The applicant seeks a special permit and or other zoning relief under the Wayland Zoning Violet constructed in addition to the existing dwelling. The property contains a pre-existing non-conforming structure that does not comply with the required 30-foot 20-yard setback. The proposed addition would increase the gross floor area of the structure by 39.87%, which exceeds the 20% expansion limit for non-conforming structures under 198.401.1.3.2 by 19.87%. The proposal would also result in a four-story structure, which exceeds the maximum two-and-a-half storey right permitted in our district. The applicant is therefore requesting... So we have anyone here for this case? So before we get started, there are only four of us, so any decision we take does have to be unanimous tonight because we don't have a fifth person. And he will be here, but we don't know when he's going to be here. So I don't want to hold you up. The other thing I want to bring up is that there are some potential challenges with your application. So I guess in light of the... In light of that, do you want to proceed to present with only four of us, or we should prefer to wait?
Unless somebody else prefers, essentially. Well, we're going to have to take a problem with everybody tonight. Well, in light of questions about the application. Yeah, I suppose that's true.
I'm not sure, to be honest with you. What's... Where are my shoes? What are you guys doing? I don't know really how this all happens. Well, I'll tell you what. Let's have you present the... Why don't you come up, introduce yourself, we'll open the hearing, and then I'm going to give you, after that, we'll give you a quick presentation. If you can give us a quick presentation of what you want to do, I'll sort of let you know the kind of the four questions that I saw with your application that I think are going to be some challenges. Will you? Sure. So I guess I'll start with the garage plan that we had originally submitted. About a year ago. And we had submitted it. You guys gave us a variance to put five feet from the right-of-way there. Appreciate that. But once we got the conservation, we kind of realized there was some pretty low likelihood that it passed through because it's within, you know, it's within 30 feet of the water. So we kind of hit a crossroads there and said, do we spend a lot of money and kind of push it through, or do we put the brakes on it and kind of... I guess, circle troops and figure out what else we can do. And this is how we kind of got put on this project here. Okay. We have two small kids. Our house is pretty tight. There's stuff everywhere. So we need to get a little relief into a piece of our house and get a playroom and a second floor to leave our bedroom upstairs.
The house is, it's really true to two stories now. There's a basement. You know, that's what the house looks like now. So it's... It's not as aggressive as the plans suggest, I guess, from an eye level. So I just wanted to share that picture with you guys.
And that's it. I'll do it. All right. So the... What I wanted to bring to your attention is a couple things in the application. One is that even if we wanted to, you present a sympathetic case for the property. I'm well familiar with it based on the garage. But even if the board wanted to, we can't... We can't... We can't grant a variance for a four-story structure. Homes greater than two and a half stories, they can only go to three stories. And they're only permitted on lots of five acres or more. So we're kind of up against a real problem with that. Even if we wanted to grant you a variance for this. The second thing is, and this may help you with this first thing, the kind of the critical piece to kind of understand this is the average grade calculation, which you don't have on your... You don't have on your plans. And you're going to really need that added there, because I think that may answer questions about whether this is really a four-story structure. The third thing is that your... The site plan needs to be that it still shows the garage. But you're going to want to submit the plan without the garage on it, because when we look at the variance process, we have to consider sort of the totality of creating the variance for the zoning ordinance that deals with density setbacks. Building, massing, all of that. And I don't want... I should preface this again by saying variances are a particular... They're a more strict standard than a special permit. And the paperwork has to be like 100% in order. I have a copy of the one without the garage. Okay. But it wasn't included in this. So one thing I was thinking is it might make sense to withdraw this application. How do you make... Those revisions and then resubmit it. And if you withdraw it without prejudice, there's no fee to resubmit it. There's no... We can resubmit it at any time. We're not going to sort of have any negative connotations with you coming back. But given the sensitivity of the site and the issues that we're going to have with the Conservation Commission on anything on this site, I think we want to make sure that the application is 100% exactly correct. Okay. So that, coupled with the fact that there's only four of us, sort of, is why I was suggesting maybe the best course for this would be to withdraw the application and then submit it. No problem. And I know I had spoken with the building commissioner and the building inspector about this, too. And if there are questions about the application process and how to deal with things like the average grade and whether or not, like, the house is actually four stories. Because you probably can find a way to make a house two and a half stories without really changing the design. It just kind of depends on how the grade is calculated and what's considered the low grade. I do want to come up with sort of more precise definitions for those. And I think that will make this process easier because it is a challenging ask on a site like this. I'd like to have it here. The presentation for the garage was easy for us to approve. I think this one's going to be a lot harder. And I understand the situation with the little kids in a smaller house. So I want to find a way to make this workable. Thank you. Would this need to go to conservation after zoning? So I guess I'd have to ask, I mean, does the town, for the building commissioner, does the town allow for concurrent applications? Like, could he apply to the conservation commission with the same plan? And understanding that both the conservation commission and the zoning board would have to approve it. But one, is it necessary? And sort of two before the other, because if you have to go in order, you know, then the question is, which board do you apply to first? And that could make the permitting process for this stretch on for a long time. So we're going to top the existing dwelling. So it's there. So, but I would, have you reached out to conservation yet? I haven't because the reason why we're doing this project is because we can't expand horizontally. They're just not going to allow us to do that. So we decided to go off. I figured since we're going off. There would not be any objections from their end because it's not affecting anything outside. Well, there, there wouldn't be, I just, I don't, we don't even have a vehicle to approve it as a variance. Yeah, that's what you want. Yeah. But, um, no problem, but that is an interesting, it's an interesting, it's a, it's potentially a compelling case. I'd love to go off. Yeah. So at one point we wanted to be the last board. We wanted board of council, we wanted a road commissioner when there was one, we wanted conservation if possible. Correct. And then conservation was taking a lot longer just because of their caseload. So we were going ahead without conservation and then letting applicants go to conservation. So it's how. I'm generally in favor of that. I don't like putting applicants through like a year's worth of hearings to all these different boards for one product. I'd love to find a way. So because anything we approve can be conditioned on, you know, getting that conservation. If it's not. If it's not. If it's necessary. So it's like, I don't think there's any reason why it has to be done in any particular order. Does it seem like it's, does it seem like it's. It's nice to have a good faith estimate, a review of the project. So we have some parameters, you have some parameters to work off of. Um, and the same with, uh, health is okay with the, the amount of, um, space you're going to be adding to this for the septic system. Yeah. It's been approved. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. So I guess I'll, I'll withdraw, pull back to the drawing board. I'll get a grain calculation. Um, I still need to plan out the garage and we can just go from there. Yeah. And, um, as I said, try to find some, I guess, do some research on the question about like, what would, what would be considered a story? Because like, you know, I'd like for you to be able to get the space that you need for your family, but I'd like to see if we could find a, um, a pathway to do that that keeps us sort of, allows us to do a variance, but still keeps us kind of within, within the spirit of bylaw. So we need to vote on, we need to vote on that? Yeah, we have to have a motion. Okay. All right. So I make a motion that we allow, um, the applicant for, uh, work 25W to withdraw, uh, prejudice. Certainly. Uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? None? Okay. We don't have to write a decision on that, right? That's just like an administrative. Yeah. You can reapply at any point. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it. Hey, thank you. Mm-hmm. All right.
So, uh, Sean will be here in 15 minutes, and that was at 710. So he'll be here in about five minutes. So, um, do you want to go on to the next case? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go. All right. This is the, uh, next case, the 715 case for ZBA, uh, case 2607, 6 Winter Street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the property at 6 Winter Street, located in the single-resident R-20 district, the applicant seeks a renewable special permit under the Wayland Zoning Law to continue operating the Wayland Animal Clinic at this location. The clinic is operated continuously at its property until 1872, pursuant to a prior Zoning Board of Appeals approval. As part of this application, the applicant is requesting an amendment to the existing condition of approval to modify the permitted staffing levels. The current decision allows for a maximum of three doctors and six support staff on a premises at one time. The applicant proposes to amend this condition to allow for a maximum of four doctors and 13 support staff on a premises at one time. And the applicant is also requesting that the special permit be renewed for a 10-year period. All right, do we have anyone here for this? We have some personal questions. Hi, can you guys hear us? Yes, we can. Okay, I don't know if you can see us. Yes, we can see you. Okay, we're having some technology issues. So yeah, I'm Caroline Pinsky, the owner of the veterinary hospital. And this is my husband, George. He is one of the managers of the animal hospital.
So... Yes, so as you read, you know, we have owned the animal hospital since 2010.
And it's been a veterinary hospital on the site since 1972. And we are here to renew the special permit, hoping to get an extension to a 10-year special permit. And then also some adjustments. And the number of employees.
Is that everything?
I guess I have a question for the building commissioner before we go on. What is the article that regulates the home-based businesses?
In the bylaw, it is home occupation. Well, it's not really a home occupation.
It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. Oh, okay. Under business uses. So this is a... Is this a permitted business use in the single residence district? Or... I'm just trying to understand. I just want to understand what we really... I think it seems like a straightforward application. I'm just looking at the... Looking at this just trying to understand this only for the zoning district.
Thank you, sir. 11-02-2011. The prior decision in 2021 cited sections 201, 203, and then the table of permitted principal uses. Okay. And that this is in an R-20 single residence.
I'm asking this question. I just want to be sure that there are no impediments to us increasing the number of employees. I think that's the only... To me, that's the only question, I think, on this application. I just want to be sure we have a legal pathway to do that, given that it's not in the business district. Yeah. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. It's a business use in a residence district. Okay. Which abuts the... Right next door is... It abuts the business district. The business district, yes. Okay. And then you have the Royal on the other side of this nursing facility. Yeah. Okay. It's kind of sandwiched in. And it did start in 1975 was the first ZBA hearing on this. So in 72, they had a variance for intake. 72? For use as an animal medical plan. Got it. So that's the underlying... That's the underlying... Okay. That's all I needed to know. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sorry to derail that. I just wanted to get that question out of the way. I guess, can you give us a quick high-level overview of what's kind of... Of what's behind, I guess, the need for the staffing increase? So... Business is good, right? Yeah. Business is almost overwhelming, especially since COVID. And we actually are a bit delinquent in coming to you sooner. We have... I think it's a combination of having gone paperless because all of the old doctors need technician support staff in the exam rooms for computers and COVID and so many people working from home and the increase in pet ownership. But we have... We are... Close to these staffing levels at this time. And so we are asking for something that... We are already staffing the building with these numbers. We had to add a receptionist for front desk phone management. We've had to add some technical staff to help support the doctors. We usually have two doctors in appointments all day and one doctor in surgery. And... So we are at these staffing levels. We're almost at what we're asking for at this time.
Are there any concerns with the available parking and sort of the staff levels that you have now? So it seems to be working out fine. A couple of the staff members have spouses that work there as well. So that cuts down on cars. So yeah, but five of us come in just two cars. We are tight, but we fit 12 to 13. We fit 12 to 13 cars in our back staff parking lot. And any given day, there may be a couple employees that are parked in our front main client lot. Which never fills up. Which doesn't fill. But it's working. I wish we had a little more space for parking, but it isn't impacting how we're functioning as a business. Yeah. Does anyone know why the... Why the renewal period was stipulated at five years? I think that's pretty standard. Think of Whalen Swim and Tennis. Think of other uses. It would go from a one-year term initially to then a five-year term to try it out. And then if it worked well, then it went to five and five. But with your Whalen Swim and Tennis recently, that was extended to a 10-year permit. Which... It was our memory when we purchased from Terry Perbaugh in 2010 that he had been moved up to the 10-year. I don't know that for certain, but we knew that, you know, I think we initially were at a one or two year, then a five. And then we were just, you know, it's not a big deal to us, but... When we first came to you, we asked for a five initially because the bank... Because we were purchasing, we were financing the purchase of the clinic, and they were a little nervous about a one-year. And so we wanted to get a five, and you granted it. Questions? Anyone else? I don't. There's someone from the community there. Oh, okay.
So I guess, yeah, can we... Is there... There's no one here in the room to speak, but it sounds like there's somebody online who's... Yes. Can you give us your name and address, please? Yes. My name is Natalia Good, and I'm at 13 Winter Street. So we live kind of diagonal to the bed clinic. We've lived at this address for the last 12 years. And for the most part, we've had... You know, decent relationship with the bed clinic. And we've been getting those regular mailings about the extensions for the clinic to, of course, operate. And we've never had any kind of issues except since COVID. And, you know, it was right to observe that the business did pick up in COVID. So my observations are that bed clinic, the ones that, based on my understanding, when they receive... When they receive the conditional approval to operate as a business, there were three conditions to be met. One of them was for the house to appear like a normal house, so not like a business. The second was for someone to stay in the house in case of a fire so the animals don't get hurt. And the third one, I cannot remember right now, but... And it's not to park on the street. Yes. Yes. So when it comes to the parking, what I've observed is the... The parking lot that was initially appearing as your standard driveway, actually, two lanes, it was expanded into four lanes. So at any given time, throughout the week, this week, in preparation for this meeting, I went by and I counted the number of cars. It was always 11 or 12 cars parked in the driveway, back to back, which does not look like a normal house to me. In addition, at the entry... So at the front entry of the business, there are these cones that kind of signal to the cars, to customers, not to block the entry. They also don't look like a normal house because these are like six cones in front of the entrance, and they're there permanently with the letters of Weyland Animal Clinic. And then third, they've built like an enclosing fence in the front, which looks strange. It does not look like your normal house. It's kind of like maybe three feet or four feet high of a fence that has a large container for doggy bags. And it makes sense why there's a doggy bag. But once again, it does not look like a house. It looks like, you know, a business. And finally, right next to the fence, there is a hydrant. So to me, this should not be even a question of expanding the scope. This should be a question of controlling the scope because I've been thinking about these kind of things over the years. And I wanted to kind of bring my concerns to the right forum. And this is why I'm here. And finally, I think it should be important to note that the owners of the vet clinic purchased the next house next door before the house was purchased next door. So a usual house, which they're currently renting out. We were warned by the seller that the scope will start growing as he leaves this house because he was the only one that was. So the previous owner of the house next door was kind of controlling to make sure that the vet clinic stays in scope and delivers on their promises. So I worry that without proper control of the vet, that the vet clinic is slowly growing out of scope. And the next thing that we will, if, you know, if we do allow for additional people to start parking, first of all, they will start parking on the street and which creates a different problem. I'm not, we have lots of different kids who are riding their bikes coming from Wayland Middle School, going to various like Starbucks is where this is a safe street for the, for the kids to pass through. And I just worry that those will be obstacles for the kids. Um, and it would be just a matter of an accident waiting to happen. So I ask you not to not only allow for additional people, but really consider putting some measures in place for the vet clinic to start delivering on their original promises.
Um, does that include me or do you mean, uh, yes. Any, any other public comments? Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I, I guess. Oh, okay. People from the public. Yeah. People from the public, people that we haven't heard from before yet. Yeah.
Okay. Not. Okay. Sorry. So, yeah. So that was the applicant that was speaking. Yeah. Yes. Okay. You can, uh, go ahead. You had a, you had a comment. Um, well, so I just want to, I guess I just want to address some of that. I do want to make it clear to everybody that we have been phenomenally strong and clear with our staff. That they are not to park on the street. Um, and, and I, I am confident that that isn't something every, every now and then I think a client will do that. Um, and we'll ask them to move the car, but the staff very much understands that they are not to park on the street. Um, you know, we are the, so the, the fence enclosure in the front that she brought up, um, we tried to do it. With as much, um, you know, awareness of, um, the look of the property. Um, we had a couple of, um, very scary situations with, um, you know, the front, the door to the hospital opening. Uh, we don't have a, uh, some vet hospitals will have like an enclosed double door entry and, um, a dog, you know, in a panic can slip through that door. And it was in part to try to protect my patients from then being on route 30, uh, in one of those chaotic moments where somebody's entering and someone's leaving. Um, and, and also during COVID, we were curbside. Um, it was a really, really difficult time for my team and for vet hospitals across the country. And we needed a place to meet clients and take intake histories. And then have them return to their car and bring the patient into the building. And that was our solution was to put up this sort of fenced in area. Um, um, trying to think, and I guess I'll also add, you know, we, we are again with the paperless, a lot of reliance on computers now. Um, and just the increased need of staffing. We, we are already operating at the staff levels that we're asking for. Um, and I also just want to say. I just want to point out generally to the town of Wayland. I think you guys know this, but the veterinary, you know, pet ownership has exploded nationwide and Wayland. We, there are three women who started a third private practice in Wayland that is now three veterinary hospitals in this town. We are all busting at the seams. Um, we have a wait list for clients. We are very willingly sharing, you know, we refer to other Dr. Silk or to auto vet regularly when we can't accommodate a puppy. That's overdue for vaccines. Um, the town is going to have a really hard time accommodating pets owned by the families that live in Wayland, um, without us operating at the level we are. And, and I, I understand, and I sympathize with our neighbor, um, but I feel a little bit stuck with, you know, how hard we're working to accommodate, you know, people who move into town and, and need veterinary care. So. I would like to point out. One more situation. There was a dog, a couple of years that ran away from your practice and entered not only my backyard, but into my house and to an open door. And I would prefer with increased, uh, increases in customers for those situations not to occur because I don't know, uh, the nature of, you know, these dogs and there are more kids on our street, our street turned over and kind of, when it comes to the population on the street. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that some of the kids, um, if, uh, if we were to take a look at a place like your Superintendent says this had never happened, it's a little bit of a surprise to see that they're expanding.
Yeah. I know, I guess I'm not aware of the incident. You're talking about, it must've been something that happened with a customer unrelated to, you know, what was going on in the building. I'm not aware of that. Um, I'm not sure. I don't know.
Right. Um, I guess one of the, so I guess one of the concerns I have, right, is that if I look at the special permit you're currently operating on. You're not supposed to have more than six employees, but you're telling us that you're currently operating with double that. And we're hearing from your neighbor that there is a parking problem. So I feel like the board's in a little bit of a box here because this is a business that's been there since 1972. So it's like no one on the rest of the board, but I'm not interested in sort of looking at the underlying reason why this is here and sort of modifying that. I think the business at this point has been in town since, again, that's a long time. So I don't have any issue with that. But I do have concern that it's currently operating vastly beyond the scope of the current special permit. And we're hearing from. Well, let me ask a quick question. How long have you been operating under your current expectation that it's been past the expectation of what the permit allows? So we did a little bit of digging. We're trying to figure out where that where that has happened. But it has happened sometime since 20. Well, sure. Yeah, I expected that you guys might ask that. And we weren't sure I went back to our payroll. It we only our our payroll only goes back to 2020 and we don't we didn't keep any of the paper records, but I did dig up. I know that we were already hitting over that level in twenty eighteen. I had written a letter to the the then commissioner, the building commissioner explaining because we were looking at buying a. different building on West Plain Street and and we were already over it at at twenty eighteen. I mean, it's clearly something that we should have noticed when we came to you guys for the twenty twenty one permit. We didn't think of it. It wasn't discussed. I wish we had. There's no excuse for that.
But it was before then at some point. We just don't know. And then I think. Covid exacerbated whatever it was because because we used to be open later, you know, our hours are till seven. But when Covid hit and people, you know, we we had to condense our hours and that meant that people were actually there more. You know, we had there were more people there at the same time than prior to that. We had that makes sense. We had a few shifts for many years where people would work a part day and then there was a. Closing shift that would come in and now we're condensed in a like an eight to five. Um, day currently, and that did play a role in how many people are there. I'm concerned with the fact that you've been operating outside of your permit for quite some time now. Yeah, I I can't I can't know this. I feel like it came up somewhat loosely at the in the during Covid with the meeting. I thought that there was some discussion about that with. The panel. Um. I mean, we yeah, we should we should have a long time ago and I'm assuming everybody would have been reasonable and we would have gotten to some. Good feedback and everything we just and parking, you know, parking has changed also, um. The church down the street. With Terry per bar and I think the previous owners, um, and I think in the first year with us had had allowed my employees to park in the church lot and they. Um, they pulled that. Off. Well, they asked for a lot of money and well, yes, I did not. Um, so that's when we started having a lot more of an issue with with where to where to allow employees to park. It's not it's not in the it's not in the material that you have, but is there any ability to expand the parking on your site? I'm sorry. The ability to expand the parking on your property. Is there an ability to do that? Maybe by a couple of spaces? Yeah. I don't think by much. Um, I mean, I don't think by much, maybe a few spaces we have that, you know, the septic is in the backyard. Um, we have the house. Driveway. And we have the front main parking lot. I drive by you guys place all the time. Whenever I go to Donalyn's or if I'm cutting over to 30 or anything along those lines, like I drive by on the regular. And. You know. For it to look like a house, it looks like a house to me. So I'm not I have no issue with that part. The fact that you guys are fully packed up with cars is something that I've definitely noticed over the years. And I wouldn't be surprised if I counted at least 10 or 11 ish cars just on your right side lot, not including the full parking lot on the left side. I think parking is a major problem for you guys. And I'm not sure how you guys are going to sort of rectify that. But. You know, those are, those are just a couple of thoughts from things that I've seen just going to Donalyn's or, you know, driving about town. Anybody else on the board? Well, I was going to say that. I am. I'm a Don one's regular and right. Well, it's not Walgreens and a post office gets you to a post office and bank. And. And I used to. Travel down there often. For my animals. Which, which no longer with us. But I, I see it variable. I don't see it always packed. I see often there's spaces and sometimes. Not infrequently often many spaces. I think it's, it could be scheduling and it could be some emergencies. Whatever. There in our earlier decisions. There was already. The. Decision made. To. Not require any residents in the. Attached home. Or the adjacent home. And it is. In a residential character, not in significantly different from the other. Other homes. Having fencing is. Mr. Commissioner. Yes. Fencing is by right. Yes. Yeah. I'm looking at the fence and it looks like it's. For. Yeah. Or. Yeah. Maybe some. Right. Up to 60 meters. Usually what is by, right. And. Yeah. Yep. Six feet and under. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing that. Should be. Understood is, is. Part of the right of the, the owner. And. And with, with 13 staff that is. And you were up. Upfront about stating that. There. to find about stating that in your application it is um it is double plus one of what was in your earlier permit and understanding what happened through covid and understanding how the population has grown it's not um unreasonable to understand how your numbers have grown and
um wondering if there's any uh what i am wondering is if there's any scheduling that could be um used to help reduce um to space that out a little bit more or um i mean that that's that's your option but i certainly understand with animals you do have you do need more support staff and it's the vets cannot be that support staff the best themselves so go ahead under one piece you know one of the big concerns from the abutter was that their dry way is you know is often over packed with cars i see that but for our driveways if we want to park you know 20 cars in our driveway we're entitled to do so so i don't really see why having too many cars that aren't like dripping fuel on the ground or something uh is is an issue also um i'm curious for the applicants uh can you sort of guess what percentage of your customer of your um patients are whaling residents
i mean we could find that out um i would say i mean if i mean it would be a guess but i would probably say 70 to 80 probably 80 percent for any other business would we ask residents you know what your is your how much of your clients are residents there's an is the issue cause by an increase of animals that are there is essentially citizens of this town it's a business oh also i know these somethings since 1972 i live in that neighborhood the only complaint that i'm not seeing is the one that the lady since 1972 this clinic how to the neighborhood very very highly um for whomever have certified their claim then supporting their necessary action they're electric vehicles than for cars and vehicle safety services and CPU boost and Dongo laws so that even different Pennsylvania ever had they went to this clinic they're always not very fortunate that the clinic is here so i mean with one accident i don't want to just uh kind of create an issue uh that that's it and every day is going to happen accidentally so i mean accidents happen everywhere here and there but it doesn't mean that you know what we have to just kind of uh close the business or put restrictions on or so that you know what because of one act but this is this has been there since 1972 so everything is changing in the town population is changing more crowded more traffic and everything so i mean if you relate this one picture to every other picture you see that it's similar situation so it's not any different than others so i don't see any issue that you know as far as the business goes or growing businesses i mean it's it's helping the neighborhood i mean it's in the city veterinary clinic in in in town and there are a lot of people who take it and use that clinic for to care for their animals
i want to give a second just to the public comment because i think there was another question yeah is there is there a question i wanted to make sure it came back yeah um no i just wanted to mention that the the the gate doesn't look like a gate on any other house uh you would not see it's not it's not a common gate and also it is put there uh it's blocking hydrant so this hydrant is unusable at this point so it's also violating the rule yeah that's a can we that's a movie that's a fire department issue that wouldn't be something we could we could deal with here um can you hear us yes a hydrant is decorative we this was a sort of a humorous thing that came up when we purchased the hospital from dr perbaugh because nobody could figure it out and we literally had a i think we had the fire department come out and they lifted it up it's it's a decorative piece therefore we painted it it was funny for dogs to urinate on it is not a fire hydrant just so i just if it's bothering anyone we can get rid of it
all right do you want them for us to have a courteous of course relationship i just feel that from my position from our position is so grown up and we've been out for a long time and we've had months of especially growing up with kids when we're the first kids we're like three and a half years old we've been doing it since we were little we've been taking our dogs from our lives and we've been watching our dogs we've been looking at them and we've been seeing their behavior and they've been telling us that they need to go on a walk we'll keep joining them they need to do it we're the first dogs we've had in the world we've held dogs for years and we've been in scope for years you haven't approached us as a good neighbor or to even get to talk to us um and you've decided that after many years you just want to expand it and just using the language to say well we've been here since 1970 and i understand i love dogs myself but i wanted to be a productive conversations where it's that you don't just choose to expand that you don't just choose to expand them scope just because you've claimed the territory you know 40 years ago it's just not the right thing to do i what i would like to see is for you to start correcting some of the things that um you have not been doing correctly in fact um and to your earlier point when you said yes we could all park many cars i am yet to see a wayland driveway with four lanes this is like a highway at this point with 12 parked cars so please don't tell me that uh it's a standard practice to park that many cars it is a standard practice at the party but not on a daily basis yeah but it's legal but if it's in their driveway it's in their driveway you know it doesn't look like a normal house it looks this house does not look like a normal house it's it's a multi-use property so it is permitted so from from that perspective i i understand why in the what on that but in the i was more concerned along the lines of the if we were to do the expansion what would that look like for additional parking for those additional personnel it sounds like we've been running out of compliance already but correct that's well that's the that's my concern we have yeah that's a major don't have enough parking for the we don't have enough parking now and our decision is based on having uh what is it three doctors and six staff we have a request to have four four doctors and 13 staff so it's you said we have parking now but they said that the parking lot is often is typically not full so yeah we do have enough parking now yeah there's yes the driveway and the customer parking lot right in the front which i understand the driveway and stuff is the one i think them but immediately it's asking the question about that that's reserved for employee parking clearly and i will say this every time i've driven by i've never seen a car on the street parking for the street parking i've personally never seen it never yeah so i do have to give the applicant credit for that and the four bets are at a time when there's a change in style it's not it's just four bets so just respond just responding to yeah concerns that are being raised um all right well i don't have any additional questions um i don't i don't think we need any additional material i think i'm i think we can close the i think we can close the commentary and kind of deliberate what we're going to do here i think that's appropriate all right um so i'm torn because i think this is a completely reasonable request and i respect that the applicant wants to sort of formally modify the situation that they find themselves in i'm dismayed that like you know it is it's a doubling of the scope that's happened over the past couple years so i feel like the neighbor is right to be upset about that um that said you know the underlying the underlying case of the uh the business you know in use since 1972 uh i'm very sympathetic to that i'm also sympathetic to the fact that i mean this is it's it might be in a residential district but this is fundamentally a business area you know if this structure has front door facing main street the address would be you know a particular road it would be winter street so i i i sort of i i understand all the concerns about this but i i think there's a pathway to to improve this um this request i do have concerns about this anterior period because what we're hearing is that been an increased densification of the use and sort of it's kind of gone unchecked so I'm wondering if we want to look at the increase you know codifying increase of the kind of the doubling of population but maybe the permit is a two-year permit and we give it we give a chance to sort of to see how this goes because this is a request to double the density but it but it has also been ongoing and demonstrated we could go with a five-year permit unofficially enough yes unofficially not officially enough correct also I would like to mention also for the parking situation there are a lot of business in that area they don't even have parking they park on the street so you have a bank then you have a child bank has their own partner yep you have a bank
and then you have the nursing home
there are a lot of businesses before that but they have designated parking in front of them that's a street they have designated parking this isn't it isn't like they are blocking 27. but these are not blocking this this clinic is not blocking it that for me that that I look at that differently because there are technically designated parking spots by the town in which there has been accountability of traffic and and usage and so on and so forth if you look at a parking area of a residence that there are 10 cars what is the difference just because it's not business it's okay but for the business situation we never had any problem with this place I'm not saying I'm not saying anything against it I just want to be cautious based off of I think that because it's been running
pretty much illegally for the amount of personnel for now I'm going to call it six years based off what the applicant said I'm going to get me pervasive stuff with that they've been running six years out of scope of their originating permit and what has been allowed and what do you do about that what that is for that I understand that but like we're fixing it now okay which I which I think is fantastic and updating it and everything like that but you know there has to be what's the accountability for I just I guess yeah updating something like that there's there's no more there's no there's no there's no more at this point but you know what I'm saying what prevents someone else from doing that and then coming here and you know being like oh nothing nothing but there are no precedents set with real estate so you cannot always do that I for me because of the situation I think a one-year permit with an official expectation on it and the an approval of the new staff to see how things are going no later than two years but it definitely should not be five either I think five is too much considering what has been going on unofficially and we need an official way to be that's my I I have that same concern yeah but like we have yeah we have an evidence of someone basically exceeding the underlying variance in special permit by a factor of 200 over five years so in my mind uh you know I think a reasonable middle ground between the the situation that we have would be uh I'd be fine with two years but I think it's I think it's important that we codify like the increased density and we put a put a period on that period is there to basically evaluate and to make sure that there continues to be a productive dialogue between you know this business and their neighbors and you know which is something that we've done in the past correct that's typical right it's not atypical for us to be able to do something like that and you know for what they do I think it's fantastic what they do I mean I am a huge dog lover myself I love cats too but I'm a preferred dog guy and you know what I mean like I I am I'm Mr. Puppy you know I can't help myself I gotta pet every dog that walks by you know but at the same time you have to be considerate and thoughtful of what the surroundings are and and comply with what you're approving in an official capacity first and once you can do that then you're then given the graces of larger terms okay I'm paying on to you I would I mean generally I agree with you I would get a lot of respect from the public because of the money we pay for the dogs that we give you you know we we use a lot of money to buy our animals but we're saying the work is well done we're doing it right and we're paid at the highest level because we care a lot about the future and we know how to make sure that we're doing good and we're doing it well and but the I don't think we're paying for the life of our animals and I wouldn't believe that there would be any other ways that we could do that we would want toράiing in not in accordance with the permit that's been in place however based on you know the nature of their business they're growing because the population of dogs in this town are growing and I don't think it's great that's a problem I think the problem is not having no else here so I mean I don't think penalizing a local local that who is obviously highly regarded and liked in the town is uh it is something that we should we should do i'm okay with i understand that idea of you know um a two-year permit to you know examine what's going on yeah what uh how the parking essentially the parking issue is affected um and and going from there i think that's a smart thing to do i guess um with that i would make a motion for application 2607 uh to renew the renew and amend instead of amending it here without consulting with the applicant do we want to get the applicants uh thought on that before and whether or not they'd be amenable for that no i'll take that way okay i'd like to i'd like to at least give us you know give an opportunity that's all yeah because we need to deliberate i mean we've deliberated and i don't believe we've come to a consensus so i think it's important to act okay uh did we renew the i'm trying to get the right way to phrase this motion did we amend the existing special permit to allow for four doctors and third nurses to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed to be allowed on on the premises um and we knew this special permit for a two-year period with the other condition that um none of the other underlying conditions of the original variance with decision modified second okay um all in favor aye aye aye opposed okay so we've we've reached this point where we're going to move We've amended and renewed this special permit. We have a 14-day process to write this decision, and then there is a 20-day appeal period. After that, you can pick up the decision and file it.
So hopefully this process will allow you to have kind of a little bit of a dialogue with your neighbor over these two years and see if we can kind of make this all amenable and workable. So thank you. Thank you. So what is the procedure now? Did we say already how many days to write it? Yeah, 14 days and 20 days. Great. Okay. All right. So with that, we can move on to our not making good time tonight, to our 730 case. This is DBA case 2638, 32-foot road. This is the application of Mary and Brian Farley for the property of 32-foot road, both living in the single residence R30 district. The applicants seek a special permit. The property is pre-existing, non-conforming with respect to the lot area and frontage. The proposed structure would have a side yard setback of approximately 6 feet along Millbrook Road, where 30 feet is required. And the applicant is therefore requesting zoning and living. The proposed barn would have a height of approximately 23 feet, and the lot coverage would increase from 9.1% to 13.6%, which remains below the limit. The maximum for the lot coverage in the district. So we asked someone to present this case to us tonight. It's me. Thank you for your patience and for kind of waiting. So just give us your name and address, please. My name is Mary Farley. I'm resident 30 Chichitit Road, and my husband, Brian Farley, had to resume. Hi, everybody. Hi, Brian Farley.
Great.
So could you give us a quick... I read the free interval there, but if you can give us an overview, what you're looking to do with that would be great. Okay. So good evening, everyone. Thank you for hearing our application. We are respectfully requesting from the Zoning Board of Appeals setback relief through hopefully a special permit or any other necessary permissions to build a traditional post and beam barn on our property of 30 Chichitit Road well within the 30-foot setback. And so it will run 11... It's a long Millbrook Road, and if you have the plot plan in your packet, you could see the placement that we're proposing along Millbrook. The property does not currently have any garage or car storage. We don't have much outdoor storage at all. We have a small shed. And so this would be a detached car garage with a storage block. It will be a traditional barn that will have two garage doors on the gable end facing our driveway. And so it will... It will be a garage, but it is a barn. This will not have plumbing or interior finishes at all. It will have electricity, but it will not be habitable space in any way. It will not be insulated. Briefly, we've lived at this property since 2013. This property is a single-family home. It was built in 1818, and it sits on the corner of Millbrook and Chichitit across from the Wayland Public Safety Building. So it is one of the sort of main homes in the Wayland Historic District, it's the yellow property across from the Public Safety Building. We really enjoy living in this historic building. We, you know, purchased a historic house on purpose because we enjoy the idea of being stewards of this historic property, and we try to be very thoughtful about its history and its position on the main street. You know, if we make any changes, we certainly want to enhance the property in the area and not detract from the character of the neighborhood in any way. So this is our home. So this barn will be storage and workshop space, as I said. But we did actually search through historic records to see if there had been any outbuildings on the property or a barn in the past. There probably was, but we couldn't find any records. But we feel like this placement might have been where a barn might have been located because it's traditionally sort of back and behind the house, the way barns often are in the historic, in the New England area. So this will be storage for two cars and stuff like snowblowers and lawnmowers. It also will have an 8x21 lean-to, enclosed lean-to on the back. So it's a 24x30 barn with an 8x21 lean-to on the back. It will hopefully be some workshop space. So we really need the storage space for the cars, especially after, like, this winter. This is what prompted us to do this. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. We also hope that adding a garage to the storage space will be helpful. This property will help keep the parcel residential in the long term. As I mentioned in the summary. Somebody mentioned to me that when we bought our house, they said that one of the proposed buyers wanted to turn it into the law office or something. And some of the properties in the historic district have been converted into offices and so they were commenting that it was nice to have some of the buildings remain residential, and so we think that this will enhance our versatility of how these homes will be Scenic. our enjoyment of the property as well as for future homebuyers. As we mentioned, it will not be habitable space, so this will just be storage and no other uses. But we would like to add the storage lot above for things like patio furniture and that sort of thing that we don't have. Our basement does not have a bulkhead to the yard. We have no access to the basement from the yard, so that kind of thing would be nice to be able to put in the upper part of the bar. So why we're requesting a special permit, the lot is extremely non-conforming. It's a huge, long rectangle. Well, it's not huge. It's a long rectangle. And so the frontage on Chichuit Road is only about 76 feet wide, and it widens just a hair at the back by about two feet. And so already it's only about half of the 150-foot required length of a standard lot. And because we have frontage on two main streets, I believe that the setback on both of those roads would be 30 feet. And as you can see, sort of the envelope of the setback envelope shown on the dotted line on the plot plan shows that really anywhere else on the property that we would place any other outbuildings would really be, you know, I mean, we can't put it in the front yard. That wouldn't be right. But so anywhere. backyard it would really be interfere with the usability of the backyard and interfere with any sight lines from the house to the backyard and that sort of thing so because we currently have a driveway turnout there um there's even a little basketball hoop shown on the plan we hoped that by just simply placing the entrance to the barn where the driveway turnout currently is we would make as few changes to the property as possible no curb cuts no other additional you know major changes we certainly we are very thoughtful about being neighbors of the public safety building we don't want to interfere with first responder vehicles going in and out and so the current driveway placement is is working and so um this seems to us to be pretty much the only viable place to build a building of this size on the property um so let's see um we also felt that our house is currently right on the property line on the north side um to our neighbors the davidsons and so we had considered putting it trying to somehow you know abut it to the house but that would bisect the yard you would have to have the driveway going across the backyard and it would just be very awkward and not to mention it would be on the property line of the neighbors and interfere with them so this is the most vibrant um there does seem to be precedent in the historic district for this kind of placement simply because of the you know non-conformity of many of the lots and buildings in the area um several of the lots have uh barns or out the links right on the property lines or within traditional subjects um the barn i didn't have i had enough design to include in the application but we have since gotten the engineer drawing to a hundred carpenters um so it will be a very traditional post and beam barn you know built in the antique style that historic district is known for and certainly in keeping with the character of the buildings in the area and so it will be a new building but we're doing all we can to sort of make it look bold and look appropriate for the area uh we think that painting it a dark red um similar to the color of the wheel and depot sort of or maybe the bastions bar next to the depot is also a nice deep red um with red garage doors and reds it would be all red no white trim or anything like that would help it not only sort of blend into the background a little more nicely but also um match what is currently in the historic district uh let's see um and so hopefully it will appear as though it's you know a barn that's been on the property for a long time and was perhaps converted into a garage at some point along the way um the stockade fence that runs along the road will be at least partially removed for construction and then will be rebuilt so the barn will be obscured by the fence and we hope to add landscaping we've struggled with landscaping there because it's um plowed and salted so often because of the fire safety building that it's hard to get you know much to grow because there's just so much salt along the road but we do plan to add landscaping and more evergreens um to help with um you know just making it look more in place and more uh also the fact that this is it's a building from country carpenters which is a company in connecticut that does these sort of post-immune kits and so we hope that construction will actually be quite quick once it starts minimizing the need for trains and trucks and that kind of thing on the property might interfere with the public safety building so um the board of health wrote us a letter that said they don't we are on the town sewer they're not on septic anymore they're one of the few residences that are have septic system that will be affected at all and it won't be you know there won't be plumbing anyway the sewer connection is on the side of the house in the front yard by Millbrook I included a picture so the construction shouldn't interfere with that at all and the conservation commission has also confirmed that we don't have any wetlands or anything on the property we will be applying to them under the stormwater and land distribution land disturbance bylaw because of the I think it's more than 500 square feet but we have a drainage plan and we're you know consulting on that and we'll get permission on that and we also uh have one support letter from our neighbors and I think my other neighbor would have emailed you so we um had support from partners and so we hope that this will you know add and not detract from the character of the neighborhood um be in keeping with the historic nature and make it livable for ourselves and future family thank you
um yeah I'm online but um no additional comments I think Mary covered it all thank you um and no comments from the public thank you that was a great presentation um so it is um slightly eminently reasonable proposal it's just a little slightly challenging but I've been been doing some some digging in uh the zoning code and I think I found a path for a special permit for this this project um I don't have any questions um for the applicants I have some comments that I can relate to the board uh about the applicability of this um but I don't know if anyone has any on the forest did you guys see the butter letters i i trust that they i have one dude i'm sure
and i think there are two online and they're both uh
so i have here both both letters are in support yeah i have one question so are you in the historic district yes do you need to go before the htc yes have you already done that no okay so it's waiting for this yeah yeah so you have to yeah getting getting an approval here just uses your password absolutely yes we just figured we would see how this goes yeah yeah well i think it's appreciable yeah i actually have consulted with um a couple of um historians that i know and stuff like that upon the design and got generally favorable comments and given some feedback that we made some changes so we're open to there right there okay um all right so uh it's an accessory structure but it's a lot that's technically on two streets but interestingly um section 706.1 gives the board discretion to waive setback requirements on it on one of the two streets if you grant a special permit under section 203 so my initial thought on this application was that this would have to be a variance request or an accessory structure in what would be the front yard if you consider millbrook um it's a lot on two streets no one you know working to issue it um but i think 706.1 if we if we look at this through uh section 203 of straightforward special permanent it gives the cba the discretion to sort of reduce that setback to what we deem reasonable but it must meet the frontage requirement on one street but i think it's a pre-existing non-conforming line in a list so that might be a little tortured but that's how i that's how i i think you could approve this with a special permanent in louisville variance plus you meet the frontage on one street you do yeah 253 feet you made it on on milk or no room so yeah i know this was a question that the building inspector raised so um but yes i i'm comfortable that we can make that interpretation under 706.1 because i think if this were a variance they don't know that we have a property challenge that we could wrestle with to accommodate this no 706.1 covers it okay and this is similar to something that you didn't hear but at school and commonwealth and east east plain similar situation three sides but the house was conforming and washed so you did not have to hear it but same situation okay any comments from the board um i think it was incredibly thorough you know thought out uh well planned presentation yeah um i think that should be a product for that um yeah we don't usually get uh packets as complete in presentations maybe you could outsource your skill to some of the other applicants we put her on retainer
most of the beam is going to be gorgeous oh that's going to be great the design i think the design is is nice i think it's actually going to look good actually behind the fence just as they're proposing it it's probably going to look like it's something that's been there for a long time when it's completed so yeah okay um so looking at that um i i make a motion that uh the board has determined that the accessory structure for which the application is made its not against the public interest it doesn't derogate through the character of the neighborhood in which such youth-building structure occurs and it's not detrimental or offensive because of noise-vibration-smoke-gas-root or dust or other objectionable features and if the proposed accessory garage is not otherwise injurious in whether you have an institute towered or property that are being Participard to the public health or safeties um and that because of that we can approve a special permit under 203.1 referencing section 706.1 the waiver requirement for the setback on the side um and that uh the project needs to obtain approvals from other boards as required it needs to be constructed in substantial conformity with the application submitted certainly all in favor all right opposed none so you go you have your special permit amazing thank you very much there is a it takes 14 days to write it and then there's a mandatory 20-day appeal period after that then from there you can pick up a decision that's set to go and then uh store commission approval here's your application okay thank you very much everyone nice job thank you very much from your house that you've saved for the history of it this would be a nice thing to add to it yeah you never find it maybe it's on a very loud that's great thank you all right so this brings us on to the next case which is the 745 variant from cba 609 35 street work road this is the application of llama and syrian blossom robin for the property of 35 the applicant seeks a special permit under the dialogue for renovating the existing single family dwelling including including the rear addition of the construction of the second floor the proposed project will increase the lot coverage from approximately 14 to 23 exceeding the 20 percent maximum lot coverage the existing dwelling is on a previous issue non-showing clock that inspects minimum lot area and frontage requirements so you can come up and introduce us up and tell us about your project chair and board my name is go on campus party laundry lab saugus i'm representing the owner uh also i have an updated uh plot plan uh we did make a change on the deck so i have seven copies here that i want to add to the record as well okay yeah the vectors on the back we made a change to it um we kind of made it a wrap around We enlarged 26 to 99, there's a 26 to 10. It was 26 to 10, it's now 25 to 99, 26 to 99. They didn't have . . So this is 35 Sniper and then . This is 109 Andrew. . But this says 26 to 99. Yeah, yeah, and that dropped out. But then this became 26 to 99. Oh, so this 26 to 99, this is dead. Andrew, it's not here anymore. . Yeah. . I understand. But we have two cases named 26 to 99. Yes, and so it's got one number. So this is not in front of the board anymore. Okay, so I can throw this old 26 to 99 away. Yes, you can throw that away. . I got it. I got it. Reduce the amount of paper. This was 26 to 10, but it's now 26 to 99. I don't remember. . So I'm sorry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . proposed project, we will increase the log coverage from approximately 14% to 23%, exceeding the 20% maximum log coverage. Setbacks will remain the same, so we're moving the addition just along the existing footprint on the main massing of the existing structure, and then the addition to the back will all be within the required setbacks. And if you can see on the surveyor, he also has the log coverages. So the log coverages, just for the dwelling in the proposed additions, actually made 18.6%. The additional will be because of the pergola and the proposed pool that we'll be going. We will extend to that 23%. So we're seeking to leave from 20% to an additional 3% log coverage. So I'm... So I'm... have a question yeah um on the plans i believe it's showing that you're demolishing the house well uh not all of the house but pretty much a large percentage of it so what is it so it's so from the interior it's going to be a complete renovation from the interior okay yeah so what the plan is is to do is a complete uh you got renovation open up the existing first floor uh create an employer adding uh relocating the kitchen area uh near living room with an office downstairs with like a nice big family room and then as you go upstairs to the second floor so we'll have uh four four bedrooms which one is the master um so the owner has a big family and he's thinking for this to be
is there a basement there is a basement okay i guess i'm just trying to figure out where the so the gross for it says 2509 is the is it a full four basement does it cover the it's gonna yeah it's gonna be full okay so again my question was because on the a0.1 it says demo mm-hmm and then it says demo basement demo first floor demo roof yeah so at the basement we're gonna uh demo the back wall uh because he wants when he's building the addition he wants to have that as a all open space yeah uh well he wants to have a study there but other than that it's going to be additional open space so yeah so we'll demo the back wall so pretty much the back wall from the back of the property that's going to be completely down and then the roof as well and and then here so like the structures that are going to remain is the garage pretty much is going to remain unchanged uh we might do some modifications right now we have three doors we might go back to two doors um that's just kind of small design and then that front and the side wall we're gonna we're pretty much in it um have you do you know if the applicants has shared the plans with um the neighbors uh i am not sure i'm not sure i don't know if there was any any feedback from any of the neighbors what is the total height of the building 33 feet 33 yeah
it's not in i don't see it in here i see it going up to 20 feet and then it's oh i think that was because there was some updated uh revision so that that was brought in after uh yeah but it is 33 feet is it's not it's not going to be finished or anything like that is just spooky it was just additional start if you need some a2 so it's a two yeah all right it's on the cover sheet as well on the cover of the application yeah but it's actually oh so yeah so uh that's not good yeah well we i brought in some updated plans sorry uh those are online yeah yeah okay sorry about that when were those submitted uh
so we had two submissions the last we have march 19th and then april 1st
and march so the one stamp april 1st is the new york yeah yes
although there is a discrepancy on the height uh on the cover sheet you have 35 feet here and then on a2 you have 33 feet there's a couple different voices where i'm kind of guessing a different yeah yeah the single storage house right now will be the two stopping yeah so the reason i was asking about the if you if the applicants have shared the plane with the neighbors like this is sort of dramatically bigger in scale than any other house in this neighborhood looking at the street view that's it's these are these are mostly these are mostly kind of flat single-story pretty small homes and this is this is substantially larger than than the other homes in the neighborhood um that's not necessarily said that's the problem but um it's the kind of thing that i would i would typically expect to see if an applicant is going to do something like more than double the size of a house that they would so of run that by or sort of at least you know include the feedback of potential feedback of the neighbors or at least make them aware of that it's a public process the neighbors are free to sort of determine this um but i i have i have some concerns about the size of this application based on the fact that the neighborhood seems to all be so they all to me look like single story homes of under two thousand square feet looking at that but if you look down snake brook yeah i was gonna say snake all the other houses have a second story they have second stories okay so the the house is definitely around the perimeter of this dwelling our single uh story um but if you go down snake brook there's several there's many houses that have uh a second story
yeah three years ago there were a few second floors additions in that area that came well in front of us i'm not saying that's a problem i'm just saying this is this is still noticeably larger and taller than all the other two-story homes that are three or four doors down right from this i'm just saying the standard the standard for this project is is the character of the neighborhood that's the state for this particular project i'm going to get them um because this is the this is governed by plural 1.1.2.3 so that standard is a little different from kind of 201 but about 203. okay 27 as you go down there is some two-story homes yep for sure um 26 snake brook uh probably three or four years ago did a very similar expansion to the home yeah they have a big pretty big addition up to on top of the garages as well pretty big on the photo just for reference yeah yeah
yeah what we were trying to do there so it's when i maintain i uh we did a six pitch so we can maintain a good pitch but you're right because of the mass thing it you know it gives it a good fight but there's not much really you know i could lower it one thing if you think that scale wise i think you'll be better maybe you can lower the pitch a little bit i think this is the next game so the price is fixed yeah yeah that's right two-part garage this is a three-car garage that's something similar where there is um a larger home from the and then we're such other folks that have two stories but they're scales in class and the proposed home had three car garage while others have two car garages and you ask for a section yeah everyone in the neighborhood yeah and uh the garage actually may have a point uh the garage actually the size of the garage actually remains the same we just add an additional door just for ease of use uh but that's actually something that we were actually talking about maybe even changing because it leaves a small space in between each car um and i think there's two doors or two door connections probably better but that's something like design where we were still talking about not completely finally well we shouldn't be seeing plans that aren't completely finalized well it's because it's something that came up as just uh when we were talking about actually today we were revising the plan uh so you know we added the third door because that's originally what he wanted but as we were looking at the plan the owner today and talking about it just because if you see it gives about two feet from each side and then in between each door it's about six uh eight and six to eight inches so uh it's kind of nice right exactly i i guess i i mean my my inclination is probably to continue this because we have we have some confusing documents it's not completely not necessarily complete information um and i guess like i have a question for the building commissioner that um this i understand it's not sort of set up that way but this appears to be like a teardown of an increasing home that's what i'm for yeah at a practical level so that's my i'm just it's extensive repair okay extensive alteration this was characterized as a remodeling yes your comfort is not a teary-eyed little bit of redone it's just a different way of analyzing it if it is yes i mean they're they're keeping the the front you're keeping the front you're taking the roof off adding the second story flowing out the back wall going with an addition on the back so it's i don't think it's a teardown i mean it's a remodeling in a larger larger scale
yes What is the definition of difference between the teardown versus a remodel? A teardown is simply down to the foundation and a rebuild. This is a major alteration. Also, teardown, I remember in the past, they had to get us two permits, one for tearing it down, so hard up the bridge, and then for... A demolition, yes. We're not asking for that permit for teardown. No, it's part of the scope of work. Yeah. I guess in terms of the final design, as I said, I think it makes sense to continue this, and we get a final set of plans reflecting exactly what you want with some of the missing information that's been noted. Does that make sense to the board? I think that's a good path forward. Is you amenable to that? Yeah. Also, may I add, although there are no neighbors to complain about this, but if you have a chance, or if the residents have a chance, just to ask the neighbors to say how they feel about it, it would be a great support for you. Yeah. Just so you're aware, I actually know a lot of the neighbors in the area, and I'm in there a lot. They're a very tight-knit community, so I would probably be able to tell you really quickly whether or not they're for or against it when you talk to one and just start talking to them. I would definitely talk with them, and they're very reasonable, so I'm not a problem with it. All right. So, yes, with that. So, what other comments that you had from the design? No, I guess because I don't necessarily know what the design is at this point. I'd like to see what the final design is, and then we can sort of address any of those comments. Yeah, the only additional change that we were speaking about was actually the garage doors, and that's something that you brought up as well. Yeah. Okay. And that's just because the spacing, you know, and putting in a car in, it will be a little bit tight with the three doors. I think it makes more sense where it is two doors, and we don't want to make it any more nonconforming where it's bending it to the side or anything like that. All right. Our next meeting is May 12th, correct? Yes. Okay.
So, I'd make a motion that we continue ZDAK's 0.609 for 35 to May 12th at 710. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? All right. So, we just have to sign a continuation for it? Not for a special permit. Not for a special permit? And you will need to have your final documents to the building department zoning by the 6th of May. And if you do not have them for that, by that date, then we will not hear you for your next meeting. Have everything complete. Have all the dates. Have all your measurements. Have your heights. Everything is complete. Yeah. The highest, everything else is not changing. Yeah. So, we have conflicting numbers on cover sheets and stuff. So, just make sure that everything is... On the application? Yeah. Everything that is complete. Got it. So, we're really getting a new plan this year, right? Yes. You'll be getting new plans. Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you for talking. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, any board comments or concerns?
Do you have any updates for the building commissioners? I do. I have one. Oh, here it is. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you on this nice, sweltering day. We are attempting to go online with our online application for a zoning board. We are attempting to go online with our ZBA application to open gov. So, we have 98% completed all our billing applications from commercial to residential. And we are looking to involve the ZBA application to our open gov application status. So, that's big news. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah. And then... We were part of that too. Errors. And... Yeah. I noticed something. Yes. That's... It's the ZBA application for average natural grades. It will be AI... Alliance. It will be AI corrected. So, anything that comes in, it will be checked for . No, I'm kidding. Really? That'd be great. That would be fantastic. Yeah. So, 33 feet, 35 feet. No. But that's a big move, and that Tom is my cohort that's done a great job. And we have Tygen Bond working with our other departments to appropriate DPW help. and everyone so we all can be on the same level great exciting yes our permits uh on open government district everything 98 about existing permits sorry no so all our paper permits if anyone wants to review their file they have to come to break these substantial money to you know yes a lot of towns have done it but it was talked about when i came on board going on nine years and then it never came to fruition but just like all our zba files these all could be scanned and digitized they reference it's a lot of paper there's a lot of paper so if i wanted to get older file information like on five concrete road the library which we've done
and i've got some more questions from the uh from the current director of the uh structure so um we're looking for pre-1988 plans for the basement the first floor and the um and the message the mezzanine is pretty much the same but um i'm really looking at the basement and first floor and how it looks really look at the place going down we can look again
yeah it's the library library there's no other matters that i'm uh unaware of so uh someone want to make a motion move to adjourn second time all in favor all right opposed