August 11, 2025 – Board of Health – Video & Transcript
August 11, 2025 - Board of Health
Robert Defrancesco: Jailyn.
recording in progress. public
body meeting information.
virtual. in person and hybrid.
Pursuant to chapter two of the
act of 2025. this meeting will
be conducted in person and by
remote means. in accordance with
applicable law. To A roll call.
Dr Genevieve Anand
Dr. Genevieve Anand: yes
Robert Defrancesco: Dr Brett
Mordas
Brett Mordas: here.
Robert Defrancesco: John Storer
Jonathan Storer: Here.
Kathyrn Holland Stiff: Katherine
Stiff
yes
Robert Defrancesco: and Doctor
Bob Defrancesco here. Start off
with public comment. Do you have
anybody
I don't see anyone online
What's that ?
Robbie Bullard: I see no one
online.
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so you
can't see unfortunately. But
when we do have our agenda item
for China Rose. we will need to
be able to see the people
zooming in. yeah. so you might
have to just turn around. yeah.
mordas: Laptop. So. yeah.
Robert Defrancesco: okay.
alright. Steve. start off with
the follow up discussion on
Chesley Brown and some local
septic radiation issue.
Julia Junghanns: So we wanted to
just circle back. because we
talked about this before. but
that was when we've had our
guests come in and. you know.
there were talking about some
ideas that they hoped the board
would consider for additional.
I'm sorry. accessory dwell on
units however. you know. because
of Title Five and septic flows
and you know. there's certain
things that we probably can't
do. But.
you know. there may be some
ideas. I know that John had
mentioned some ideas. and the
things that I jotted down at the
time were related to the closet
idea. which you want to sort of
elaborate on that a little bit
Darren R. MacCaughey: we talked
about it. yeah. at the prior
meeting. yeah. Folks were there
that. you know. maybe to add a
bedroom definition in their ADU.
They would move a closet from
one of their existing bedrooms.
and they get a home office. And
that's like I said at that
meeting. We do that all the
time. and people do that all the
time.
Julia Junghanns: So that's an
idea that I don't think we have
to do anything
Jonathan Storer: unless we're at
the room count. We're up against
the room count already. That
doesn't work.
Darren R. MacCaughey: So the
room count. yeah.
Julia Junghanns: Deed
restriction.
Darren R. MacCaughey: We could
do that. I mean. I think it's
that's something we want to do
with all of the ADUs. honestly.
it might would be my
recommendation.
Jonathan Storer: Do you expect
the house
Darren R. MacCaughey: to nudge
each unit to a certain number of
bedrooms. just so there's no
confusion.
Julia Junghanns: the ADU is the
primary house or.
Darren R. MacCaughey: I mean
that would be the cleanest and
easiest.
Julia Junghanns: yeah. okay.
Jonathan Storer: deed restricted
to one bedroom.
Darren R. MacCaughey: You're
right.
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so.
because what I'll do is I can
pull together the information
and present it to town counsel.
just to get their feedback on
any ideas. They may have. or.
you know. ideas they may think
that aren't great. Um. Darren.
can you remind me about the room
count?
Jonathan Storer: If the if the
ADU is part of the existing
dwelling. but it's not a
detached unit. how would the
room count?
Darren R. MacCaughey: Though.
the room count really only
applies to single family
dwellings. So I think that they
could actually have more rooms
in two separate units. if you
think like an ADU. could have a
kitchen. a living room and a
dining room and a bedroom.
right? So that would be four
rooms. The regular house. or the
original house. may have a
kitchen. a living room. a dining
room. all their bedrooms plus a
family room. They could have a
lot more rooms. It could end up
with a very large total. The
divide by two and round down
doesn't really apply.
Jonathan Storer: So is it just
how you how you designate the
rooms. if your ADU is part of
your existing dwelling. with
just an exterior door. does that
kind of throw the room count out
the window?
Darren R. MacCaughey: I mean. I guess I try and Dr. Genevieve Anand: fish that can be renovating. And Jonathan Storer: I could draw. draw lines on a piece of fun. on the plan. and say these four rooms are my ADU rooms. so now I can actually put an addition on the other end of the House floor. Darren R. MacCaughey: if it's separated. you know. if it's clearly a separate unit and not part of the same house. You know. if you may be able to do it. Jonathan Storer: okay. if you hadn't thought about it. no. Darren R. MacCaughey: I mean. you really only looking. trying to limit the number of rooms that fit that bedroom definition. you know. total number of beds. right? Because we don't want it to exceed what the septic capacity is. right? So if it's clearly a room that's going to be used as a kitchen. a living room. a dining room. and doesn't fit the bedroom definition. that's an easy right? They can have those rooms. plus they're one extra bedroom. I mean. I look at it every day. it gets a little more blurred with every new application that comes in. yeah. ADU aside. you know. any application you really have to look at the house as a whole. yeah. you know. Julia Junghanns: So if you're doing a room count and you count in the primary house and the ADU together. or at least. Darren R. MacCaughey: I'm not going to do a. No. I wouldn't do a total room count for two homes. because that only applies the divide by two and round down when you count. okay. only applies to significant Julia Junghanns: okay. So wouldn't be Darren R. MacCaughey: right? And Title Five looks at the entire facility. right? The whole property is being single family or not. Jonathan Storer: So if there's an ADU attached to the main resident residence. it's not a single family anymore. Darren R. MacCaughey: right. At least. that's how I would I'm sorry you're interpreting a septic code. right? And only septic. Julia Junghanns: so good. Then the whole house is an ADU? Darren R. MacCaughey: It's two bits. It's not a single family. Robbie Bullard: Two family Darren R. MacCaughey: it's subject to the same room count Julia Junghanns: yeah. okay. Dr. Genevieve Anand: the septic. sorry. a very basic question. With a septic. it's matching the size of the house. So if you have six bedrooms and six bathrooms. then you have a bigger septic. is that correct. Unknown: right. It goes by bedrooms. Bathrooms are convenience so it doesn't make more people able to live in the place and generate things that would make your septic need to be bigger. So it's by rooms that fit the bedroom. Darren R. MacCaughey: Sure. you can have 20 bathrooms and four Dr. Genevieve Anand: Basically. you could have like. four bedrooms and two bathrooms. bedrooms. it's still a four bedroom. Jonathan Storer: You can build more bathrooms. it's just convenience. Julia Junghanns: just can be the same number of people Dr. Genevieve Anand: of water Darren R. MacCaughey: it is but you need a person to do. you need someone to flush. If there aren't more people able to live in the house. they're not going to flush. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: so if you have two bathrooms in your house and then you add a third bathroom. you're still going to use bathroom same number of times. You know. that's how I Darren R. MacCaughey: just how far you have to walk to get to. Julia Junghanns: you might have to go down the hall to use the Dr. Genevieve Anand: it counts as a it. doesn't matter. bathroom instead.
Darren R. MacCaughey: No. I mean. the only time we look at if it's a half bath or something more than a half bath. is sometimes people are finishing their basement. and they're not intending to use it as a bedroom. but it ends up fitting the bedroom definition. When they propose a full bathroom. a three quarter or a full bathroom. that makes us a little nervous. because now this one could be used as a bedroom. and it's has its own bathroom with the shower. We don't limit basement finishes like that to only a half bathroom. but we encourage only a half bathroom. and if they want the full or three quarter bath. sometimes we actually do switch them. because they're they're technically adding a room that fits the bedroom definition. and now they've made it really easy to use it as a bedroom. So sometimes we'll all square the decision. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: So the closet idea. the other idea was adding on to an existing septic system with the Title five Darren R. MacCaughey: inspection existing septic system. Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: lWe should talk a little bit about that. Yeah. there was some guidance that the state. I think you guys. got it at one point. they talked about. you know. the difference between a conforming and a non-conforming system. So a conforming system that most of their guidance relates to. is a system that's been permitted since 1995. so you'll note that the code is 310. CMR. 15.000. the prior code. the 78 code that doesn't size the septic the same way. doesn't give the same protections for groundwater offset for the leach field is 15.00 so they point that out in their guidance document. and I think we should follow suit. right? That a system that was designed in the older code. which doesn't protect the environment as well. and the leech areas are much smaller. My recommendation would be to not afford anyone the ability to add on with that type of system. to get another bedroom or do anything. Julia Junghanns: What year was that do you know? Darren R. MacCaughey: What year was Julia Junghanns: what the old code was? The. Darren R. MacCaughey: Seven Eight Julia Junghanns: was enacted by the new code? Darren R. MacCaughey: 95 Unknown: and when did they start requiring two compartment tanks?
At least in the 95 code. anything that's not single family requires multi compartment tanks. I don't remember if it's in the 78 code. Julia Junghanns: but that wasn't. I mean. that's an our regulation. but that's not in the state code. Darren R. MacCaughey: If it's something more than a single family residence. it needs to have a multi compartment tank. That's a state. Jonathan Storer: a when did we and when did we start that? Darren R. MacCaughey: September 22 No. September 15. 2022 Julia Junghanns: Yeah. so that was. that's when the what I was getting at is our code references that. So if we have an SOP for ADUs that can be reviewed by town counsel that you know. these are some of the things that are kind of basic. but yet. you know that we could choose to allow them. if the Jonathan Storer: right? board wanted to. And one of them is. if the system is post 95 but Darren R. MacCaughey: So. Julia Junghanns: and that goes along. Jonathan Storer: I mean does the the tank negotiate? Or do they have a single compartment tank that's in good shape. Can they keep that tank? Or do we make we put in a new two leaching fields negotiate? Because the two compartment tank compartment in.
leaching field.
Julia Junghanns: right. So if the system is approvable to add the ADU. and the tank is out of compliance. Darren R. MacCaughey: so it's already leach fields. already large enough. so they either over design. so they got another bedroom. or they're taking a bed about someplace else in house. That's what she's talking about. because you'll have a situation when two compartments weren't required because it wasn't a multi family house. And when do we require that local. you know. is the title five inspection on an existing septic tank that might not be multi compartment. okay? you know. Julia Junghanns: but we're saying that it's multi family. Unknown: right? So what? So? What I was going to say is it's still pertinent. because if it's a detached ADU. they have the ability just to add a single. I read through the guidance document. they can add a single compartment tank to the ADU and be in compliance with the regulations. not our local regulations. but the statement Julia Junghanns: they can add a tank Darren R. MacCaughey: right Julia Junghanns: to connect. Darren R. MacCaughey: but it doesn't have to be a multi compartment. This is if there's two separate units. Julia Junghanns: I see. Okay. yeah. okay. so we're getting down to like. systems. yeah. you know. is very technical. but so the house may have a tank already. that's single compartment. and then they're adding on the ADU. and they could put in a two compartment for the ADU if they need one. say it's further away. But is that house going to be okay with the single compartment tank. or are we going to make them put in a two compartment too? Does that make sense? It's a good question. you know? So that's one question. And then monolithic tanks. Those are something we require now. H20D boxes. Unknown: Why do we require? What was the rationale behind that?
Julia Junghanns: And then we're going back to 22 Yeah. Jonathan Storer: I'm just I'm curious. because so Darren R. MacCaughey: in complete honesty. that wasn't a recommendation from Julia or I for monolithic. Julia Junghanns: Who was that Brian? Darren R. MacCaughey: but it was Brian. Julia Junghanns: Brian McNamara. right? Who's on board for a number of years. and many years. Actually. Darren R. MacCaughey: I think it would. and we didn't disagree Julia Junghanns: we didn't disagree but. with Darren R. MacCaughey: We didn't. Julia Junghanns: we didn't feel strongly about. you know. that. So it's part of our regulation. We couldn't consider. you know. not requiring it for ADUs. but we're not sure how we would approach that. That's why Town Counsel is right. you know. involved. And then H20D boxes. And then those are also things that are required. right. yeah. So. um. Darren R. MacCaughey: those can be. you know. at short money. shortish money. yeah. So. I mean. I Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: and the why. Jonathan Storer: if they had a tank. you could probably add a second tank. And easier than taking out the existing Julia Junghanns: true. Jonathan Storer: and You need to have enough elevation.
Darren R. MacCaughey: right? So. all things to consider.
Brett Mordas: Okay. you. Is it? Is that? Do you feel like we have enough leeway in terms of. like. improving like. it seems like it's pretty like you need for each situation it is. is it? Yes? Do you feel like you'd rather not be constrained. or like it feels. it feels like you need more information? Like. I don't know. it seems like somebody could build like an ADU and then like 15 people would live there or something.
Unknown: Well. not that it's really enforcible. but the housing code does give us some latitude as far as a maximum number of people that can live. Julia Junghanns: Well. yeah. but I mean. we're certainly not the bedroom police. Unknown: any inspections on. Julia Junghanns: yeah. the ADU initiative was to create housing. you know. because obviously we have a housing crisis. And so it gives the ability for homeowners who have. you know. land where it could be built. And. you know. probably. I don't know if they have grants that they can apply for. I have no idea. but the money to be able to actually move forward with a project like that. So. if you have land. you have money. And then you. you know. you are interested in that. that something that people are starting to pursue Dr. Genevieve Anand: when they came what I understood was they wanted it simple and cheap. right? But it can't be because it's so there's so many variations in the code and what people have. and then mostly case by case. right? Unknown: It is. yeah. Julia Junghanns: it will be. Darren R. MacCaughey: Almost everyone is different. a little bit different Dr. Genevieve Anand: What they were asking for. what I'm understanding. Darren R. MacCaughey: Can you say that again. Dr. Genevieve Anand: so when they came or they were on ones online? Darren R. MacCaughey: Yeah. it's not cookie cutter. Yeah. same thing. Dr. Genevieve Anand: cheap and simple. but it's not. Unknown: I think we're very open to creative ways to get this accomplished. I think you come up with some. really. yeah. on a regular basis. maybe Julia Junghanns: it's just. you know. we want to make sure that we're consistent with how we approach things. and then. you know. have some kind of guidance. you know. from town counsel on best practices. or SOPs. or whatever you want to call them. I don't know yet. but you know. it is. Dr. Genevieve Anand: oh yeah. what you're saying? I'm just saying that's what they were looking for it doesn't seem realistic. Julia Junghanns: So some of their ideas. you know. we've talked about a little bit more and thought through them a little bit more. And. you know. as much as they sound great. it would take so much staff time to monitor and track the things that they were suggesting regarding taking one bedroom out and putting it in and. you know. tracking it through assessing records. I don't see how that could be done without having another person hired here. which is just to Jonathan Storer: check with the closet was taken up. Julia Junghanns: Yeah. I mean. and then worrying about. you know. septic capacities. which really is our concern. you know what? I mean. the public health component. and making sure that the systems can serve the residents instead they're built for so Unknown: would the town. ever loosen the building code a little bit to make more lots. lots like reduce the frontage requirement or lot size. or something like that. or Just does. because that gives more units. maybe not affordable units. but more units. Julia Junghanns: That would be the ZBA. Darren R. MacCaughey: right? Julia Junghanns: I just didn't heard anything. I haven't heard anything about that. unless this group. you know. is petitioning other boards you know that could potentially be involved. I don't know. Yeah. Dr. Genevieve Anand: from the land you could use other septic tanks. with more data Unknown: well. there's some lots in town that are half acre. that have septic systems on them. and they function just fine. But in certain areas of town you need an acre. let's say so maybe reducing that. or reducing the frontage requirement. I don't remember if it's 150 feet. but if we made it 120 maybe some pieces of land would be subdividable. You get an extra lot right there. But right Julia Junghanns: but what does the ADU bylaw allow you to do? You know what I mean? Well. Jonathan Storer: that wouldn't be for ADU. That would just be to subdivide and put up.
Julia Junghanns: Yeah. yeah. I see Jonathan Storer: get rid of the the rural character. No Julia Junghanns: I haven't heard anything about that. So. yeah. that's a good question. Dr. Genevieve Anand: I. schools
Darren R. MacCaughey: I'll be looking be looking for another job that would be
Julia Junghanns: so any other ideas while we're talking about it. I mean. those were the main ones I had from last time. I just kind of wanted to flush through them a little bit Darren R. MacCaughey: lots of pun intended. Jonathan Storer: And then Darren. how often have you seen or been a party to expansion of a leaching field? Darren R. MacCaughey: Probably twice Jonathan Storer: in how many years? Darren R. MacCaughey: 16 plus 10. 26.7. years Jonathan Storer: It doesn't happen very often. Darren R. MacCaughey: It doesn't happen very often. No. but I could see people wanting to do this in a system that's post 95 Jonathan Storer: so do you think there should be. do you think there should be an maximum age that you'd allow a leaching field expansion. like. if a system is 30 years old.it's. it's certainly. it's at its half life. right? Darren R. MacCaughey: So that's the 95 code. right there. right? Yeah. So. I mean. that's the natural break. no brainer. Jonathan Storer: So if somebody comes and says. Well. it passes Title Five. and I'll put the two compartment tank in. and I'll add another eight feet to my Darren R. MacCaughey: right now. that's allowed in guidance documentation from the state. Jonathan Storer: really. yep. okay. I would Julia Junghanns: for ADU or anything. Darren R. MacCaughey: It's not specific to anything. It still has to be fully compliant. Though you couldn't do that if they're adding a bedroom outright and you're adding floors to the facility. you trigger full compliance. And there's no variant for variance provision for that. Say. if the system was. it was a repair system for four bedrooms back in the day. and they took a groundwater offset reduction from the bottom of leech field. You can't add on to that leech field because it's not far enough away from hybrid. So that would not be a candidate. But that's. you know. that's dictated to us state code. But if it didn't have any variances. then it could be something to look at. Maybe there's no reserve area. and we make them test the reserve areas like we know how to get full compliance on our system.
I see more people being creative with their existing house. because it's easy for us when they add a bedroom over historically approved principle compliance. You can do it or you can't do it. but when you're rearranging rooms. little different. little Yeah. more complicated. Unknown: So that kind of leads in quickly to when the system. for example. was post 1995. it was done in full compliance at the time. but you have an existing component that isn't in compliance with our local regulations. How do we handle that? And I think that's going to be a question. yeah. for Town Counsel currently. Darren R. MacCaughey: I would say it's a variance. but that's my opinion. right? There will be a variance by the board. unless Town Counsel says something different. We have talked a bit about the existing components that are in the ground already. as compared to potentially a new component. You know. in addition to what's there already.talked a little bit about. you know. possibly grandfather in the existing components. if they were the minimum compliance with the state regs and only requiring full compliance for the new proposed components that need to be put in. Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: Yeah. that was one. Julia Junghanns: I mean. you know. we're not going to have every scenario that we could possibly think of. but these are basic ones that we could start with. And then. at least we have a way for staff to look at things and have depending on what Town Counsel says. you know. a guide for reviewing these applications. And then if something is a conundrum for us. we go to the board. You know. we don't want to have filled agendas with all this stuff. you know. for simple things. that's why Jonathan Storer: I think we just make Darren king. And if they want to go for variance or go against them. they bring to the board. Robert Defrancesco: and they can only do it once. They only. they Julia Junghanns: Yeah. we don't want to see you again. Yeah. So. can only come for approval once.
you know. next steps will be. we go to. you know. we'll just put this together for Town Counsel. and then a. Um. find out what their thoughts are. and you know what they think you know regarding. is it a regulation and the standard operating process? Is it a guidance document? We don't know yet. So um. given that DEP has a guidance document. you never know. So then we'll. um. bring that back to the board once we have that information and figure out what our next steps would be. So. Dr. Genevieve Anand: I mean. I don't know categories four. if you fit into some people have an idea. like the staff meeting. how to break. One is to have the bedroom. One is to do this. so they retract and simplify. I simplified. I mean. Darren R. MacCaughey: of course Dr. Genevieve Anand: they'll understand like. Okay. Darren R. MacCaughey: right? So we just need to know from town counsel. but what would be allowed today?
Julia Junghanns: Great.
Darren R. MacCaughey: I'm on paper up to eight or 9 ADUs now. submittals. it's not a ton. but it's a bunch. mordas: no. Dr. Genevieve Anand: if they're putting it in the Wayland newspaper. Julia Junghanns: Sorry.
Robbie Bullard: China Rose is here. but I'm going to put them Julia Junghanns: Yeah. that's fine. We're just wrapping up so you can let them in. Jonathan Storer: Darren. are they. the ones that they've done. the applications Are they removing a closet? Or what are they doing? Darren R. MacCaughey: Some of them are doing that. Yeah. at least one of them is doing that. which is fine. because they didn't have a home office already. so that's great. Some of them need brand new septic systems. Some just needed. and they had a system that was post 95 that had most of the system was fully compliant. and they just needed to put in a new tank. you know. And then some were. adding a new tank to the ADU. tying into the same leaching field. So it's really across the board. It's a little different every time. but it's interesting. Julia Junghanns: Great. Thank Darren Robert Defrancesco: Thanks Darren. Unknown: Right? And we locked the door. Julia Junghanns: yep. some stuff that's in. And we had some information that was provided by the applicant. I don't know. Did everyone have a chance to look at it? Or because I have some extra copies here. Okay. that's fine. We can talk through it a little bit. I'll I can hand out a few copies. Dr. Genevieve Anand: most of them. why we can. Julia Junghanns: and people can sort of. Unknown: thank you. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: I mean. Beth is on the call tonight again. our food inspector. So if we have questions. we can. We can ask her. So. okay. so can you turn that around to see? Okay. So
what? The best way to do this is. probably not. yeah. Unknown: unless we're stadium seating C Julia Junghanns: I can
Robert Defrancesco: stadium to us.
mordas: Just see who we have there. all right. is that China Rose? We have their attorney and is Beth on yet? Beth Grossman: Yeah. I'm here. Julia Junghanns: Oh yeah. great. thank you Can everyone hear us? Yes. Beth Grossman: yes. yes. mordas: okay. great. All right. thank you. Julia Junghanns: So we're back again tonight. We had a meeting
in July regarding the HACCP plan approval to serve sushi at China Rose and the board asked for some additional Information. and they've provided information. so we agreed to come back at our next meeting. which is tonight. and so we're going to continue our discussion. We do have a couple of our board members that were not here last time. Our chair. Bob DeFrancesco and Dr Anand were both not here. Well. you weren't here. I'm sorry. right? Brett wasn't here. Sorry about that. And everyone else was v Unknown: yes. sir. Okay. Josh. thanks.
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so with that. you know. understanding. if there's any questions you know that we talked about last time that you might have tonight. please feel free to ask. We've got our food inspector on the call as well. And so the information that was provided. where some inspection reports from the Town of Dedham. where the sushi. the planned Sushi Chef Weixiang Zhou has previously worked or possibly may still be working there right now. I don't know. but I don't know if anyone had any questions about those reports. or if Beth. you know. you could chime in a little bit regarding your observations. you know. taking a look at those reports.
Beth Grossman: Yeah. I. I was concerned that they did not fill out the pH logs consistently. That was cited as a violation for the for the the sushi rice that's supposed to be done with every batch. and a lack of hand washing. so that's a concern.
Julia Junghanns: And we also received a updated HACCP plan today. which. you know. had a couple of things that were wrong corrected in the plan. And I took a look at it. I looked at all the compared it to the old plan so there wasn't anything that was. you know. a major change there. so we'll just. you know. give the board a couple of minutes to. you know. kind of take a look at the paperwork and see if there's any questions right now. and then we can sort of start our conversation.
So the board didn't make any decisions at our last meeting. This has been that was why. you know. there was more information that was requested to look at it. What's the specifically? So the variance is actually a standard variance that is required for the sushi process to prepare rice. and it's required for any sushi. any restaurant that serves sushi. and and you know that they are looking to serve add. add sushi on as a new menu item. So. yes. yeah. okay. And so. you know. Beth and I have talked about. you know. some of the prior inspections in their in their establishment. and we felt like more time was needed for. you know. the current menu that they are using. And. you know. perhaps we could do. you know. some inspections on a monthly basis. You know. we had some thoughts about that. but. you know. the applicant wanted to move forward. And you know. that's a board decision to approve the HACCP plan and the permit to serve sushi. You know. we felt that some more time was needed for you know. some of the temperature controls and food handling procedures. As far as you know. the staff at the at China Rose. we felt like some more familiarity and training was needed in those areas with their current venue. And then. you know. these inspection reports were requested. where the and please correct me if I'm wrong. the sushi chef is currently working in Dedham. I believe. yes.
mordas: I'm sorry. Kensley Barrett: that is correct. Julia Junghanns: That's correct. Okay. thank you.
Robert Defrancesco: So where do we stand in the training? Is the training going? On right now. Beth is. are we done the training. or is? Beth Grossman: Well. quite a few inspections were done a few months ago. before the first meeting in July. there were some violations. like temperature of refrigerators. Those have been corrected. I mean. I haven't been there since then. but they're. you know. supposed to be checking those daily. and I haven't been back. But I do have a question about who wrote your passive plan Bianca. who is Bianca and what is the new plan like? Who wrote the new plan that we got today?
Kensley Barrett: All right. so let me correct a couple of things in terms of the HACCP plan. It was created in conjunction with an consulting group called Aurora consultants. based out of Sharon. They helped create the HACCP plan for China Rose with the intention that Mr. Zhou would be the sushi chef. handling the sushi making duties. responsibilities. There was a administrative error and Bianca Rifts name being placed on the document. Bianca Rift is not an employee of China Rose. obviously. and it was more of a clerical issue. more than anything. But to be clear. the HACCP Plan was created in conjunction with the consulting group out of Sharon with the with the intention that Mr. Zhou would be the sushi chef going forward at China Rose. So Bianca Rift should have not appeared in any document. She is no way. shape or form going to be a part of any aspect of China Rose. And so that was just a administrative error. Beth Grossman: Usually. if it's a consulting firm. they put their name on the document. the name of the company and the person. so that wasn't there. Who did the new plan today. It's Aurora Consulting Group. all right. because I don't see I'd have to look back. I don't have it in front of me. Julia Junghanns: Okay. I didn't see a name of a company. But. you know. Mr. Zhou's name was added to the updated copy. Kensley Barrett: So I'm kind of confused here. because I wasn't sure reading the regulation whether it's a requirement that the consulting group's name should be listed on the document. Correct me if I'm wrong again. if I'm wrong tonight. I certainly apologize for that. I didn't know that was a requirement that the consulting name is actually listed on the document itself. Beth Grossman: I don't it's not a requirement. I'm just saying it's usually done okay. so. so we just want to make sure. you know. so it does seem the plan itself seems fine now. Julia and I had talked about. you know. before they start to have somebody go. a consultant. go in and do on site training before they open with all the equipment. and just make sure they're following the HACCP. There's a lot of details. and they know what they have to do with the you know. all the logs. the calibration of the pH meter. the testing of every batch of rice. One thing I didn't see is if they're going to dispose of the rice at the end of the day or not. That wasn't on the plan. You is that the sushi chef behind you? Kensley Barrett: That's correct. Beth Grossman: What does? What does he usually do. we should add that to the plan. Kensley Barrett: All right. you're on mute right now. Food. Can you have Mr. Zhou talk regarding the daily. what's going to happen with the rice at the end of each day? Beth Grossman: Do they keep it and use it in the next. Morning or do they dispose it?
Unknown: No. every day we make a new one. Beth Grossman: Okay. so just put that on the plan that the acidified rice should be disposed at the end of the day. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: So. okay. I'm just making a note of that on here.
Kensley Barrett: I want to add as well that Mr. Zhou. he will be the only individual from China Rose involved in the handling of decision making. There are no other employees that will be handling any of the product now. certainly the owner of the establishment food will be involved in helping receive some of the fish shipments that come in. But in terms of the actual creation of the product. it'll only be Mr. Zhao.
Brett Mordas: so what I remember from last. the last meeting. is that Beth definitely goes out twice a year. Remember. right? Yep. to do we want to make. make something contingent upon the establishment paying for more frequent inspections or anything like that?
Julia Junghanns: You mean. if they say the board approves the sushi um. addition to their menu and Brett Mordas: well. for that. I just like six months is a lot. yes. and you're so you only hitting that one day. Julia Junghanns: That's the standard for any food establishment. mordas: I do not know that. Julia Junghanns: yeah. I mean. it's certainly something to consider. The we're not. you know. they are all day. So. you know. we don't. you know that is. that's part of the every. twice a year. inspection. you know. to check in and see how things are going with the. you know. understanding that there's a serve. safe. trained. you know. person that's managing the operations. and. you know. making sure that if there's any staff turnover. that new staff is trained and understands food handling and food safety and all those basic essentials of you know. being a restaurant. And you know. there can be turnover in restaurants. as you know. this probably significantly some cases. But you know. we could consider some kind of plan. I don't know what your thoughts are. back. but you know. we would be doing a check. you know. we would be doing an inspection. We wouldn't be managing. you know. the day to day operations provide an issue with check back to yes. there's a fault. You know that typically. whatever. depending on the violation. typically. there's a follow up inspection. yes. and there's. like. a number of days. you know. to come to fix the violations.
Kensley Barrett: If I may. my understanding. sorry to interrupt. If I may. my understanding was that when the previous inspections. one of the concerns was the temperature of one of the refrigerators. I believe that one of the things that help alleviate any concerns regarding the temperature is the fact that China Rose has procured an entire new refrigerator refrigeration systems specifically for the purpose of handling fish and sushi products. Certainly that is something that can be monitored with a digital thermometer that the owner of China grows has access to on a daily basis. So to the extent that the concern was the temperatures. certainly. I think that is the remedy has been established for that. And in terms of the cleanliness of China Rose. I think that what I proposed previously was to gather the records from Mr. Zhou. current place of employment to kind of demonstrate over the last five years. issues that might have arisen. and I understand that Beth has pointed out that there was maybe an issue regarding employees washing hands and maybe the pH log book. Doubt. Certainly I'm happy that we provided the. Occurs to be completely transparent with Mr. Zhou's place of employment. Hope that doesn't lead everyone to believe that he's responsible for every issue that arose out of his current place of employment. but certainly with respect to his sushi making capabilities and ensuring the safety of patients that eat there. I don't think there was any glaring issues that came about through the report that I provided. right?
We certainly would be amenable. Sorry. We certainly be amenable if. if it requires that China Rose paid for additional inspections. if the board decided to grant the variance. we certainly be amenable to 60 day or 90 day spot inspections. just to ensure that China Rose is following the asset as required.
Dr. Genevieve Anand: is a separate area where he's prepping this machine away from the rest of the kitchen. Julia Junghanns: No. that's a question for the folks at China rose about where the preparation area will be. Unknown: So that is correct. There is a separate area. It's more forward facing. whereas majority of the food prep takes place in the kitchen. In terms of the sushi creation. that would be forward facing more in a dining area where there is a setup already that's been waiting to be used. essentially. So it would not be at the same place where the current food process is currently situated. It would be actually in. like a dining area. that is where the sushi making would be. Beth Grossman: I mean. they have the setup from the old owner. They did sell sushi many years ago. but they stopped because it wasn't profitable. They didn't have the volume. So the equipment's still there. Just want to make sure it's still working properly at the right temps. so they already have the separate front of the house area with the display case. display refrigerators. you know. the under the counter refrigerator. the cutting boards. the hand sink. So so they do have a separate area. yes. yeah. Dr. Genevieve Anand: Was documents. were these helpful for you? Julia Junghanns: I'm sorry. Yeah. they were helpful. Then. yeah. yeah. because we're. I mean. we're familiar with reviewing things like that. so. you know. that was what. you know. then Beth had mentioned. there were a couple things related to. you know. having a pH log and hand washing
and so. you know. it's helpful to have this information for sure. You know. just so we can have an idea how things were going. Robert Defrancesco: I guess the board has to decide. Or do we feel comfortable where China Rose to add additional food to their menu based upon the previous violations that were corrected? So the board has to. we feel comfortable moving forward to allow them. So I want you to think about that. But also what you're saying error is it would. it would be completion on six months. Jonathan Storer: Well. we could add that. Yes. it's add on to that. But I guess you didn't mind. Julia Junghanns: and we wanted the consultant. you know to. as Beth mentioned. to review the HACCP plan and make sure that you know the plan is being followed and staff are trained on it before they open to serve sushi. And then Beth would typically do an inspection. but that part of the you know. of that inspection isn't really to do that training. you know what I mean. So that's what we would ask for. There are a number of food safety consultants that we were able to find online through the state. Website. which we can share with the staff at China Rose
Jonathan Storer: Beth. do you think additional inspections is helpful? Beth Grossman: I think the consultant making sure that every part of the plan is followed. And then I would probably go in. you know. a few weeks later and see how things are being maintained. And at that point. then I can. then we can see if we need more frequent inspections or not. If it's everything is good. then. you know. it would be. I would have to wait and see how it was going. I mean. we can go in at any time. There's no. you know. we're not limited to twice a year. and we can go in anytime. if there's a concern. So it will just be a judgment call at that point.
Robert Defrancesco: Does the consultant provide training? Julia Junghanns: They can. Yeah. Brett Mordas: and usually Beth just does inspection. She doesn't do training Beth Grossman: I mean. I've done trainings there when they first took over. because I was concerned with the whole staff. That was for the kitchen for sushi. I do an inspection. and part of that is training if there's anything wrong. but they're supposed to be on top of all that. that they're serve safe. certified. and they follow the plan. and if they don't. then that's what we go over. Brett Mordas: Would you feel more comfortable doing more more frequent inspections for the first year or two after they got there. Beth Grossman: I mean. like I said. I'm gonna. I would defer till I get the consultants report on the training and my first inspection. and then I'll be able to tell so I think you could leave that up to us. I
mordas: questions. report. is Dr. Genevieve Anand: this contingent upon their clearing of all the other violations. or is this a separate
Beth Grossman: as of the last re inspection. everything was corrected. I don't know about the dish machine gages. They were on back order. but the machine. the dish machines. were working. Any update on that China Rose? Unknown: yeah. everything is. everything has just been inspected already. right? Okay. Beth Grossman: yeah. so there's no nothing outstanding as of the last time I was there.
Kathyrn Holland Stiff: just double checking was that a recommendation to have inspection without major violations prior to moving foeward with new menu items that the recommendation had been.
Beth Grossman: I can't really hear. Can you repeat what that question was? Yeah. Julia Junghanns: so the question was. was the recommendation that an inspection be done without any major violations prior to moving forward with the sushi? Is that the question? Beth Grossman: I mean. we've done that already. I feel like we we've already done that. So. I mean. we can't. we can't micromanage. you know?
Robert Defrancesco: So would we make. make the make it contingent upon the consultant completing training? Yes. And Beth. would you go for an inspection before they serve or after they can serve? Beth Grossman: I would talk to the consultant and ask them. what you know. how it went. if everything was in order. and then it's better to wait a few weeks when they get in the groove and see how everything's maintained. That's a better use of everyone's time. I've been doing this 30 years. I'm I know.
Unknown: to approve
Jonathan Storer: after their consultant has completed their training. right don't need to go back to the board for that Unknown: word. approval of consultants? Darren R. MacCaughey: No. I think that they can do that. Julia Junghanns: It's in the board's vote. Then. you know. we would just make sure. you know. we would make sure that the consultant training is followed with and then Beth would be. you know. consulting with that person. right? You know. but we would still need to approve their request for variance. to acidify rice. to render it safe. blah. blah. blah. as written on the agenda here. yeah. that's something that's required for preparing sushi. so that would need to be approved. And then you could add into the motion. you know. provided that a consultant review the plan and train them on it beforereopening inspection Jonathan Storer: followed by that's. well. that's gonna happen? Yeah. I make a motion to approve the variance to acidify rice for China Rose contingent upon the consultant providing instruction and training.
Robert Defrancesco: We have a second or do you want to add? Jonathan Storer: second
Dr. Genevieve Anand: You mentioned the house. Julia Junghanns: That's part of what Beth Grossman: the that was already that was already approved. Yeah. Unknown: Okay. so we have a second. so let's do a roll call. Robert Defrancesco: Dr Genevieve Anand Dr. Genevieve Anand: Yes. Robert Defrancesco: Dr Brett Mordas. Brett Mordas: yes. Robert Defrancesco: John Storer Jonathan Storer: Yes. Robert Defrancesco: Katherine Stiff. Kathyrn Holland Stiff: yeah. Robert Defrancesco: and Dr Bob DeFrancesco. that's approved. I
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so next steps will be to I can share with you that list of consultants. and you know I have your email. so I'll send that over to you first thing tomorrow. That's okay. and then you could let us know you know who you end up hiring Unknown: Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone. Have a good evening. Yeah. you too. Thanks. Beth. Thank you. Julia Junghanns: Great. Yep. so I don't was I tried to get a
mosquito surveillance update. That's. you know. as of today. but I don't have yet. We do have information from the state that I'm going to share. There have been a number of towns in. I guess you could say Metro West Central Mass that have tested positive. West Nile. they've had the mosquitos. I'm not aware of any people yet. but they don't have been our risk level changed from low to moderate today. Dr. Genevieve Anand: Framingham Julia Junghanns: Framingham. yeah. So. you know. there's a lot of mosquito activity hot weather. you know. good breathing time. although it is dry right now. I think it's supposed to rain this week. but so. you know. this is the report from the state. It's on their website. Um. when they did do testing in Wayland there were no positive mosquitoes. So that was a good thing. although I don't know when they're doing it again. so I will find out. But there's seven locations in Town that are options for them to get mosquito samples from either a rapid trap or a light trap. depending on which location it is. So they do have some good options for mosquito samples. And then they collect them. bring them to the lab. And they do like a number of mosquitoes to. you know. get a gauge on populations. like. how many are there? It's a very mosquito-y. and then they test for diseases. And you know. mainly for us. it's West Nile. But they do have light traps. which are for other types of mosquitoes that can carry other types of diseases. more similar to triple E. although we don't have Cedar swamps in town. where those types of mosquitoes breed. So that's good news for us. Those are mainly in Sudbury. so we usually put a big fan on the border. so that blows all the mosquitoes back into Sudbury. But so. you know. that's where we're at right now that did kind of shift pretty quickly. I mean. that's sort of standard for this time of year. but I will probably send out. you know. like an update to the community. just regarding. you know. protecting yourselves from mosquitoes. and some tips on that. So probably do that tomorrow. or sometime this week. Jonathan Storer: You must have some algae news about something. Julia Junghanns: So that is. Robert Defrancesco: it seems like we haven't Julia Junghanns: right. So right now there's an algae bloom in middle pond of Lake Cochituate that was just announced today. I was at the Town beach today. and they have they don't have lifeguards anymore because everyone went back to school. but the beach is still open. swimming ground. rest. no life guards. but we're continuing with testing the water for E coli and cyanobacteria. at least until Labor Day. unless you know the results from this week show that we have the bloom going on. We did see the pond. I mean. the lake itself looks very clear actually. where the beach area is. and there's nothing really in the swim area. but when you look to the sides. there's definitely stuff stewing over on the sides just beyond the beach. So I did take some samples of that. as well as beach water for cyanobacteria. So we should have information on that within the next 24 to 48 hours. and then we did our standard E coli testing as well. So. but I shared the information with the state. and they. you know. basically. are waiting till they see. I think. our results from the actual water samples. They've. you know. thought that they would recommend an advisory at this time for our beach area. So I will let you know what happens with that this this is definitely the time of the year. I thought it would be this week. but it might be next week. where Jonathan Storer: we've lucky this year. though. right? i mean Julia Junghanns: Yeah. we've been. yeah. it's actually been Julia Junghanns: yeah. And that Cove is definitely. you know. it really good. The water clarity has been better than I thought it would be. Usually. right now it starts really kind of looking you can see a lot of particles in the water column. which. you know. to me. is not really a great. a great thing to be looking at the water is especially I look at it really close. Most people are like. are we not looking at that? But you know. you can see some of the algae spores in the water. you know what I mean. And so I don't know if I saw that today or not. I'm not really sure. It's definitely changing a little bit. The temperature is a big factor. Was actually 80.5 degrees today. or 80.3 and so once it goes above 79 ish. then. you know. that's kind of like when things start happening and blooms start current. So I was surprised the water felt cooler. because when I was here. before I went on vacation. the water was like 83 it was like really warm I was. and it was actually looking a little more on the murky side. and now it looks better. So I don't know. It's hard to know. So far so good.
doesn't get a lot of circulation. And then if there's no wind. or. you know. I guess if there's rain. that makes it worse. So because the water washes in and the poop gets on the shoreline. but the beach has its they have it set up over there pretty well. where they have all these. like. I don't know if anyone's been there lately. but they have all these flags. They put up. It's like a string of flags. and they hang it so that the geese are sort of spooked by it. They don't like. you know. and then they put chairs up so they can't get on the shore. So they do all these things that help prevent the geese from landing there. because otherwise it would be bad. like I've seen it get pretty bad on this. No. none of these things happening. you know. the whole Dock can be actually covered in poop so. But it was pretty clean today. I was very I was impressed. Septic system legal order at 4Wheellock. we found out today that they actually hired someone to design their septic system. and Darren is working on a soil testing gate. So so that's good news. and our legal order for 12 Indian Road actually. the tenant there is not allowing people in to do any follow up inspections. according to the owner. so we are waiting until they leave. Our understanding is that they're being evicted. That was what was told to us by the owner. So it's a little tricky. you know. we don't want to get into a scuffle with a tenant. you know. that isn't happy about leaving. so we'll wait until after that happens. And you know. we have been in touch with the owner a number of times. and they have indicated that they've corrected all the violations. So everything that we indicated in our letter. they said they've. So the public health nurse search has been going on. done they've fixed.
several interviews. and expecting to probably do at least a couple of follow up interviews as well. We do have some good applicants. so that's the good news. and hoping to get that wrapped up and squared away pretty soon. considering school starts and flu vaccination season and all kinds of things coming up that we need help with. because I'm not a nurse.
we do have Katie Rines. who's our Regional Public Health Nurse. who's been helping us with anything that comes up. including our communicable disease surveillance. which is on Maven. So she's been going in and checking that. you know. make sure that any follow up is done for anything that comes through there and so or as well as anything else that comes up. So that's been helpful to have our support.
And I think I shared with the board the Town Manager's email on PFAS. products. new purchases. existing supplies and disposal. So. you know. basically. there are directives for not using products. new products. that have PFAS. and reviewing our supplies and making sure we're disclosing the things properly. There's a guide that we were provided with on. in general. PFAS products. which is dated June. So that's pretty recent. June 25 I think I shared it with everyone. Yeah. I started looking at it. I want to take another fresh look at it. because it has some interesting 1000 here. So carpets. it's kind of scary. It's like probably tents and different products that are water repellent. Jonathan Storer: the stain resistant used to spray onn furniture so that nothing would. yeah. that's pure PFAS Julia Junghanns: I know And the stuff you'd spray on your boots all the time. you know. hopefully not inside. Unknown: you mean. for waterproofing. yeah. so I use. like. a waxy Julia Junghanns: yeah. that's. well. that's probably PFAS too. mordas: I can spray it on. Julia Junghanns: I mean. any you know some of these products that. you know. people use on skis or other types of boards that are. you know. like sports equipment or anything like that. I would probably guess it may have PFAS in it prior to now. I mean. maybe. I'm sure there's still stuff that's made that has it in there. but should we Right. yeah. yeah. So that was. Dr. Genevieve Anand: is it changing practices for people making these products? Julia Junghanns: That's the really good question. I don't know the answer to that. That's like. you know. that was something I had wondered about the. you know. the spray. the extinguisher. spray farm. you know. are they still making that. and are they still selling it? Are some Towns actually still buying that. and anytime I see something on the news where there's like a fire and they're spraying with stuff. I'm like. is that all PFAS? I don't know. Yeah. it could be. because I don't know. I think there's a certain amount of time where. you know. towns have to get rid of this stuff. So are they still using it? Dr. Genevieve Anand: I don't know. You can get that. We can share so you can offer. I don't know what it is that's the environment. instantly. fabric. Oh. okay. so. yeah. trusting them like. just like the old supplements. Kathyrn Holland Stiff: they just organic.
Julia Junghanns: right? Yeah. so thank you. yeah. I know we do have a list of some water. and I think I have shared that with the board a while back. but we probably have new members since then. we had a list of water filtration pictures and things like that that we got from the water department that were advocated by the Environmental Working Group. And so I actually ended up buying one myself. It's. you know. and it takes out. like it filters. you know. certain things as well as PFAS and labor. I noticed as well. you know. like. although I know signal Marine. you know. So I can share that again. if anyone is interested. I trusted.
and it's. you know. I feel like it's better than fine plastic water bottle. So it's not. you know. they will cheat. We don't have stacks. It took an adjustment. but now I don't even buy water bottles anymore. I'd use the pitcher. We'd refill it all the time and refill all our containers with with that water. So. you know. it's also the way that stop using plastic so much. you know? I mean. sometimes you need water bottles. I mean. you know. you can't get around it. but sometimes you can't even buy them. I mean. the Cape has banned on to in certain towns. And. you know. you go to buy water. you're going to buy aluminum water. I'd rather have a water pitcher than that. But Dr. Genevieve Anand: so are you putting that up on the website? Julia Junghanns: I think it's. I don't know if it is or not. I should. though that's probably a good idea. I think this could be on the on the website.
Yeah. I mean. the thing is. is that it was never to my knowledge. You know. when I got that information from Don Millette in the water department. I said. Oh. well. does the state. like. did they certify this or whatever? He was like. I don't have no idea. And he said. I don't think they do. but he wasn't sure if they actually had gotten to that yet. So I asked the state they didn't know anything about at the time. This was like. new information. so I don't know. And then the problem is. who you ask that what? It's a very specific question. So. yeah. yeah. And so. you know. we could put it on there just as information. not necessarily recommending it. but that. here's some information that we have. You. Know. if people want to look into it. you know. it's just that was why we were hesitant at the time. because it wasn't certified by anybody that we accepted this environmental work input. which is very tough. from what I've heard so
and then the last thing I have shared the information from Ben Gould our town LSP on the air testing report from the Council on Aging Community Center. I don't know if anyone had a chance to look at that. Let me see I. I mean. there were some findings in the report which I can re share it with you. but you know. the conclusion was that those findings were likely because the building is new. and there's all kinds of different products that have recently been used in the building. You know. floor polishes. paints and. you know. other types of instruction. materials that are fresh and so. you know. they recommend. And the levels were low. but they were protected in some areas. they recommend that the community center sub slab. ventilation system. which they have. continue to operate continuously. as a best management practice. not as a requirement to satisfy DEP regulation. You know. recognizing that there are no violations. they do not recommend any further testing of either property. sub slab. soil vapor or indoor air at this time. So that was the conclusion of that.
And you know the history was the Raytheon property and the contamination over there. and you know. the ongoing reporting and testing that's been done over the years of those of the property. and you know this property was also part of that so.
And that's it. I don't have the minutes ready yet. They were almost ready. but they still need a little work. You know. the office has been busy because of vacations. You know. for the most part. Pat is on vacation. This week I was on vacation. So you know. you're always trying to catch up on certain things. but still working on open the permitting. and we have some meetings coming up this week to talk more about that with other Town staff and meet with our new IT director to you know. kind of talk through some of the technology woes that we've had over the years that they might be able to help with. Mike McCann. who was here for a number of years. has retired. and so they recently hired a new IT director. Those are the same. I think we do have a department heads meeting this week. so that could be other new information that not thinking of right now. but I will certainly share it. We're going to start working on the annual report. and that'll be something that we talk about. you know. at our next meeting. as well as probably invite the Human Relations Service to come in and. you know. provide us with an update on the work that they've been doing. saying that there were some questions too last time we. you know. talked about their report. So that'll probably be next at our September Darren R. MacCaughey: so thanks for meeting Julia Junghanns: today in our permit fees. That'll be the next one that I work on. along with the annual report. So now that I've dug out from vacation. so
mordas: we have a motion to adorn
Robert Defrancesco: second I second the motion. Doctor Genevieve Anand. Yes. Dr. Brett Mordas Yes. John Storer. yes. Katherine Stiff. yes. Dr. Bob Defranseco. yes. Meeting adjourned
Darren R. MacCaughey: I mean. I guess I try and Dr. Genevieve Anand: fish that can be renovating. And Jonathan Storer: I could draw. draw lines on a piece of fun. on the plan. and say these four rooms are my ADU rooms. so now I can actually put an addition on the other end of the House floor. Darren R. MacCaughey: if it's separated. you know. if it's clearly a separate unit and not part of the same house. You know. if you may be able to do it. Jonathan Storer: okay. if you hadn't thought about it. no. Darren R. MacCaughey: I mean. you really only looking. trying to limit the number of rooms that fit that bedroom definition. you know. total number of beds. right? Because we don't want it to exceed what the septic capacity is. right? So if it's clearly a room that's going to be used as a kitchen. a living room. a dining room. and doesn't fit the bedroom definition. that's an easy right? They can have those rooms. plus they're one extra bedroom. I mean. I look at it every day. it gets a little more blurred with every new application that comes in. yeah. ADU aside. you know. any application you really have to look at the house as a whole. yeah. you know. Julia Junghanns: So if you're doing a room count and you count in the primary house and the ADU together. or at least. Darren R. MacCaughey: I'm not going to do a. No. I wouldn't do a total room count for two homes. because that only applies the divide by two and round down when you count. okay. only applies to significant Julia Junghanns: okay. So wouldn't be Darren R. MacCaughey: right? And Title Five looks at the entire facility. right? The whole property is being single family or not. Jonathan Storer: So if there's an ADU attached to the main resident residence. it's not a single family anymore. Darren R. MacCaughey: right. At least. that's how I would I'm sorry you're interpreting a septic code. right? And only septic. Julia Junghanns: so good. Then the whole house is an ADU? Darren R. MacCaughey: It's two bits. It's not a single family. Robbie Bullard: Two family Darren R. MacCaughey: it's subject to the same room count Julia Junghanns: yeah. okay. Dr. Genevieve Anand: the septic. sorry. a very basic question. With a septic. it's matching the size of the house. So if you have six bedrooms and six bathrooms. then you have a bigger septic. is that correct. Unknown: right. It goes by bedrooms. Bathrooms are convenience so it doesn't make more people able to live in the place and generate things that would make your septic need to be bigger. So it's by rooms that fit the bedroom. Darren R. MacCaughey: Sure. you can have 20 bathrooms and four Dr. Genevieve Anand: Basically. you could have like. four bedrooms and two bathrooms. bedrooms. it's still a four bedroom. Jonathan Storer: You can build more bathrooms. it's just convenience. Julia Junghanns: just can be the same number of people Dr. Genevieve Anand: of water Darren R. MacCaughey: it is but you need a person to do. you need someone to flush. If there aren't more people able to live in the house. they're not going to flush. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: so if you have two bathrooms in your house and then you add a third bathroom. you're still going to use bathroom same number of times. You know. that's how I Darren R. MacCaughey: just how far you have to walk to get to. Julia Junghanns: you might have to go down the hall to use the Dr. Genevieve Anand: it counts as a it. doesn't matter. bathroom instead.
Darren R. MacCaughey: No. I mean. the only time we look at if it's a half bath or something more than a half bath. is sometimes people are finishing their basement. and they're not intending to use it as a bedroom. but it ends up fitting the bedroom definition. When they propose a full bathroom. a three quarter or a full bathroom. that makes us a little nervous. because now this one could be used as a bedroom. and it's has its own bathroom with the shower. We don't limit basement finishes like that to only a half bathroom. but we encourage only a half bathroom. and if they want the full or three quarter bath. sometimes we actually do switch them. because they're they're technically adding a room that fits the bedroom definition. and now they've made it really easy to use it as a bedroom. So sometimes we'll all square the decision. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: So the closet idea. the other idea was adding on to an existing septic system with the Title five Darren R. MacCaughey: inspection existing septic system. Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: lWe should talk a little bit about that. Yeah. there was some guidance that the state. I think you guys. got it at one point. they talked about. you know. the difference between a conforming and a non-conforming system. So a conforming system that most of their guidance relates to. is a system that's been permitted since 1995. so you'll note that the code is 310. CMR. 15.000. the prior code. the 78 code that doesn't size the septic the same way. doesn't give the same protections for groundwater offset for the leach field is 15.00 so they point that out in their guidance document. and I think we should follow suit. right? That a system that was designed in the older code. which doesn't protect the environment as well. and the leech areas are much smaller. My recommendation would be to not afford anyone the ability to add on with that type of system. to get another bedroom or do anything. Julia Junghanns: What year was that do you know? Darren R. MacCaughey: What year was Julia Junghanns: what the old code was? The. Darren R. MacCaughey: Seven Eight Julia Junghanns: was enacted by the new code? Darren R. MacCaughey: 95 Unknown: and when did they start requiring two compartment tanks?
At least in the 95 code. anything that's not single family requires multi compartment tanks. I don't remember if it's in the 78 code. Julia Junghanns: but that wasn't. I mean. that's an our regulation. but that's not in the state code. Darren R. MacCaughey: If it's something more than a single family residence. it needs to have a multi compartment tank. That's a state. Jonathan Storer: a when did we and when did we start that? Darren R. MacCaughey: September 22 No. September 15. 2022 Julia Junghanns: Yeah. so that was. that's when the what I was getting at is our code references that. So if we have an SOP for ADUs that can be reviewed by town counsel that you know. these are some of the things that are kind of basic. but yet. you know that we could choose to allow them. if the Jonathan Storer: right? board wanted to. And one of them is. if the system is post 95 but Darren R. MacCaughey: So. Julia Junghanns: and that goes along. Jonathan Storer: I mean does the the tank negotiate? Or do they have a single compartment tank that's in good shape. Can they keep that tank? Or do we make we put in a new two leaching fields negotiate? Because the two compartment tank compartment in.
leaching field.
Julia Junghanns: right. So if the system is approvable to add the ADU. and the tank is out of compliance. Darren R. MacCaughey: so it's already leach fields. already large enough. so they either over design. so they got another bedroom. or they're taking a bed about someplace else in house. That's what she's talking about. because you'll have a situation when two compartments weren't required because it wasn't a multi family house. And when do we require that local. you know. is the title five inspection on an existing septic tank that might not be multi compartment. okay? you know. Julia Junghanns: but we're saying that it's multi family. Unknown: right? So what? So? What I was going to say is it's still pertinent. because if it's a detached ADU. they have the ability just to add a single. I read through the guidance document. they can add a single compartment tank to the ADU and be in compliance with the regulations. not our local regulations. but the statement Julia Junghanns: they can add a tank Darren R. MacCaughey: right Julia Junghanns: to connect. Darren R. MacCaughey: but it doesn't have to be a multi compartment. This is if there's two separate units. Julia Junghanns: I see. Okay. yeah. okay. so we're getting down to like. systems. yeah. you know. is very technical. but so the house may have a tank already. that's single compartment. and then they're adding on the ADU. and they could put in a two compartment for the ADU if they need one. say it's further away. But is that house going to be okay with the single compartment tank. or are we going to make them put in a two compartment too? Does that make sense? It's a good question. you know? So that's one question. And then monolithic tanks. Those are something we require now. H20D boxes. Unknown: Why do we require? What was the rationale behind that?
Julia Junghanns: And then we're going back to 22 Yeah. Jonathan Storer: I'm just I'm curious. because so Darren R. MacCaughey: in complete honesty. that wasn't a recommendation from Julia or I for monolithic. Julia Junghanns: Who was that Brian? Darren R. MacCaughey: but it was Brian. Julia Junghanns: Brian McNamara. right? Who's on board for a number of years. and many years. Actually. Darren R. MacCaughey: I think it would. and we didn't disagree Julia Junghanns: we didn't disagree but. with Darren R. MacCaughey: We didn't. Julia Junghanns: we didn't feel strongly about. you know. that. So it's part of our regulation. We couldn't consider. you know. not requiring it for ADUs. but we're not sure how we would approach that. That's why Town Counsel is right. you know. involved. And then H20D boxes. And then those are also things that are required. right. yeah. So. um. Darren R. MacCaughey: those can be. you know. at short money. shortish money. yeah. So. I mean. I Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: and the why. Jonathan Storer: if they had a tank. you could probably add a second tank. And easier than taking out the existing Julia Junghanns: true. Jonathan Storer: and You need to have enough elevation.
Darren R. MacCaughey: right? So. all things to consider.
Brett Mordas: Okay. you. Is it? Is that? Do you feel like we have enough leeway in terms of. like. improving like. it seems like it's pretty like you need for each situation it is. is it? Yes? Do you feel like you'd rather not be constrained. or like it feels. it feels like you need more information? Like. I don't know. it seems like somebody could build like an ADU and then like 15 people would live there or something.
Unknown: Well. not that it's really enforcible. but the housing code does give us some latitude as far as a maximum number of people that can live. Julia Junghanns: Well. yeah. but I mean. we're certainly not the bedroom police. Unknown: any inspections on. Julia Junghanns: yeah. the ADU initiative was to create housing. you know. because obviously we have a housing crisis. And so it gives the ability for homeowners who have. you know. land where it could be built. And. you know. probably. I don't know if they have grants that they can apply for. I have no idea. but the money to be able to actually move forward with a project like that. So. if you have land. you have money. And then you. you know. you are interested in that. that something that people are starting to pursue Dr. Genevieve Anand: when they came what I understood was they wanted it simple and cheap. right? But it can't be because it's so there's so many variations in the code and what people have. and then mostly case by case. right? Unknown: It is. yeah. Julia Junghanns: it will be. Darren R. MacCaughey: Almost everyone is different. a little bit different Dr. Genevieve Anand: What they were asking for. what I'm understanding. Darren R. MacCaughey: Can you say that again. Dr. Genevieve Anand: so when they came or they were on ones online? Darren R. MacCaughey: Yeah. it's not cookie cutter. Yeah. same thing. Dr. Genevieve Anand: cheap and simple. but it's not. Unknown: I think we're very open to creative ways to get this accomplished. I think you come up with some. really. yeah. on a regular basis. maybe Julia Junghanns: it's just. you know. we want to make sure that we're consistent with how we approach things. and then. you know. have some kind of guidance. you know. from town counsel on best practices. or SOPs. or whatever you want to call them. I don't know yet. but you know. it is. Dr. Genevieve Anand: oh yeah. what you're saying? I'm just saying that's what they were looking for it doesn't seem realistic. Julia Junghanns: So some of their ideas. you know. we've talked about a little bit more and thought through them a little bit more. And. you know. as much as they sound great. it would take so much staff time to monitor and track the things that they were suggesting regarding taking one bedroom out and putting it in and. you know. tracking it through assessing records. I don't see how that could be done without having another person hired here. which is just to Jonathan Storer: check with the closet was taken up. Julia Junghanns: Yeah. I mean. and then worrying about. you know. septic capacities. which really is our concern. you know what? I mean. the public health component. and making sure that the systems can serve the residents instead they're built for so Unknown: would the town. ever loosen the building code a little bit to make more lots. lots like reduce the frontage requirement or lot size. or something like that. or Just does. because that gives more units. maybe not affordable units. but more units. Julia Junghanns: That would be the ZBA. Darren R. MacCaughey: right? Julia Junghanns: I just didn't heard anything. I haven't heard anything about that. unless this group. you know. is petitioning other boards you know that could potentially be involved. I don't know. Yeah. Dr. Genevieve Anand: from the land you could use other septic tanks. with more data Unknown: well. there's some lots in town that are half acre. that have septic systems on them. and they function just fine. But in certain areas of town you need an acre. let's say so maybe reducing that. or reducing the frontage requirement. I don't remember if it's 150 feet. but if we made it 120 maybe some pieces of land would be subdividable. You get an extra lot right there. But right Julia Junghanns: but what does the ADU bylaw allow you to do? You know what I mean? Well. Jonathan Storer: that wouldn't be for ADU. That would just be to subdivide and put up.
Julia Junghanns: Yeah. yeah. I see Jonathan Storer: get rid of the the rural character. No Julia Junghanns: I haven't heard anything about that. So. yeah. that's a good question. Dr. Genevieve Anand: I. schools
Darren R. MacCaughey: I'll be looking be looking for another job that would be
Julia Junghanns: so any other ideas while we're talking about it. I mean. those were the main ones I had from last time. I just kind of wanted to flush through them a little bit Darren R. MacCaughey: lots of pun intended. Jonathan Storer: And then Darren. how often have you seen or been a party to expansion of a leaching field? Darren R. MacCaughey: Probably twice Jonathan Storer: in how many years? Darren R. MacCaughey: 16 plus 10. 26.7. years Jonathan Storer: It doesn't happen very often. Darren R. MacCaughey: It doesn't happen very often. No. but I could see people wanting to do this in a system that's post 95 Jonathan Storer: so do you think there should be. do you think there should be an maximum age that you'd allow a leaching field expansion. like. if a system is 30 years old.it's. it's certainly. it's at its half life. right? Darren R. MacCaughey: So that's the 95 code. right there. right? Yeah. So. I mean. that's the natural break. no brainer. Jonathan Storer: So if somebody comes and says. Well. it passes Title Five. and I'll put the two compartment tank in. and I'll add another eight feet to my Darren R. MacCaughey: right now. that's allowed in guidance documentation from the state. Jonathan Storer: really. yep. okay. I would Julia Junghanns: for ADU or anything. Darren R. MacCaughey: It's not specific to anything. It still has to be fully compliant. Though you couldn't do that if they're adding a bedroom outright and you're adding floors to the facility. you trigger full compliance. And there's no variant for variance provision for that. Say. if the system was. it was a repair system for four bedrooms back in the day. and they took a groundwater offset reduction from the bottom of leech field. You can't add on to that leech field because it's not far enough away from hybrid. So that would not be a candidate. But that's. you know. that's dictated to us state code. But if it didn't have any variances. then it could be something to look at. Maybe there's no reserve area. and we make them test the reserve areas like we know how to get full compliance on our system.
I see more people being creative with their existing house. because it's easy for us when they add a bedroom over historically approved principle compliance. You can do it or you can't do it. but when you're rearranging rooms. little different. little Yeah. more complicated. Unknown: So that kind of leads in quickly to when the system. for example. was post 1995. it was done in full compliance at the time. but you have an existing component that isn't in compliance with our local regulations. How do we handle that? And I think that's going to be a question. yeah. for Town Counsel currently. Darren R. MacCaughey: I would say it's a variance. but that's my opinion. right? There will be a variance by the board. unless Town Counsel says something different. We have talked a bit about the existing components that are in the ground already. as compared to potentially a new component. You know. in addition to what's there already.talked a little bit about. you know. possibly grandfather in the existing components. if they were the minimum compliance with the state regs and only requiring full compliance for the new proposed components that need to be put in. Julia Junghanns: right. Darren R. MacCaughey: Yeah. that was one. Julia Junghanns: I mean. you know. we're not going to have every scenario that we could possibly think of. but these are basic ones that we could start with. And then. at least we have a way for staff to look at things and have depending on what Town Counsel says. you know. a guide for reviewing these applications. And then if something is a conundrum for us. we go to the board. You know. we don't want to have filled agendas with all this stuff. you know. for simple things. that's why Jonathan Storer: I think we just make Darren king. And if they want to go for variance or go against them. they bring to the board. Robert Defrancesco: and they can only do it once. They only. they Julia Junghanns: Yeah. we don't want to see you again. Yeah. So. can only come for approval once.
you know. next steps will be. we go to. you know. we'll just put this together for Town Counsel. and then a. Um. find out what their thoughts are. and you know what they think you know regarding. is it a regulation and the standard operating process? Is it a guidance document? We don't know yet. So um. given that DEP has a guidance document. you never know. So then we'll. um. bring that back to the board once we have that information and figure out what our next steps would be. So. Dr. Genevieve Anand: I mean. I don't know categories four. if you fit into some people have an idea. like the staff meeting. how to break. One is to have the bedroom. One is to do this. so they retract and simplify. I simplified. I mean. Darren R. MacCaughey: of course Dr. Genevieve Anand: they'll understand like. Okay. Darren R. MacCaughey: right? So we just need to know from town counsel. but what would be allowed today?
Julia Junghanns: Great.
Darren R. MacCaughey: I'm on paper up to eight or 9 ADUs now. submittals. it's not a ton. but it's a bunch. mordas: no. Dr. Genevieve Anand: if they're putting it in the Wayland newspaper. Julia Junghanns: Sorry.
Robbie Bullard: China Rose is here. but I'm going to put them Julia Junghanns: Yeah. that's fine. We're just wrapping up so you can let them in. Jonathan Storer: Darren. are they. the ones that they've done. the applications Are they removing a closet? Or what are they doing? Darren R. MacCaughey: Some of them are doing that. Yeah. at least one of them is doing that. which is fine. because they didn't have a home office already. so that's great. Some of them need brand new septic systems. Some just needed. and they had a system that was post 95 that had most of the system was fully compliant. and they just needed to put in a new tank. you know. And then some were. adding a new tank to the ADU. tying into the same leaching field. So it's really across the board. It's a little different every time. but it's interesting. Julia Junghanns: Great. Thank Darren Robert Defrancesco: Thanks Darren. Unknown: Right? And we locked the door. Julia Junghanns: yep. some stuff that's in. And we had some information that was provided by the applicant. I don't know. Did everyone have a chance to look at it? Or because I have some extra copies here. Okay. that's fine. We can talk through it a little bit. I'll I can hand out a few copies. Dr. Genevieve Anand: most of them. why we can. Julia Junghanns: and people can sort of. Unknown: thank you. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: I mean. Beth is on the call tonight again. our food inspector. So if we have questions. we can. We can ask her. So. okay. so can you turn that around to see? Okay. So
what? The best way to do this is. probably not. yeah. Unknown: unless we're stadium seating C Julia Junghanns: I can
Robert Defrancesco: stadium to us.
mordas: Just see who we have there. all right. is that China Rose? We have their attorney and is Beth on yet? Beth Grossman: Yeah. I'm here. Julia Junghanns: Oh yeah. great. thank you Can everyone hear us? Yes. Beth Grossman: yes. yes. mordas: okay. great. All right. thank you. Julia Junghanns: So we're back again tonight. We had a meeting
in July regarding the HACCP plan approval to serve sushi at China Rose and the board asked for some additional Information. and they've provided information. so we agreed to come back at our next meeting. which is tonight. and so we're going to continue our discussion. We do have a couple of our board members that were not here last time. Our chair. Bob DeFrancesco and Dr Anand were both not here. Well. you weren't here. I'm sorry. right? Brett wasn't here. Sorry about that. And everyone else was v Unknown: yes. sir. Okay. Josh. thanks.
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so with that. you know. understanding. if there's any questions you know that we talked about last time that you might have tonight. please feel free to ask. We've got our food inspector on the call as well. And so the information that was provided. where some inspection reports from the Town of Dedham. where the sushi. the planned Sushi Chef Weixiang Zhou has previously worked or possibly may still be working there right now. I don't know. but I don't know if anyone had any questions about those reports. or if Beth. you know. you could chime in a little bit regarding your observations. you know. taking a look at those reports.
Beth Grossman: Yeah. I. I was concerned that they did not fill out the pH logs consistently. That was cited as a violation for the for the the sushi rice that's supposed to be done with every batch. and a lack of hand washing. so that's a concern.
Julia Junghanns: And we also received a updated HACCP plan today. which. you know. had a couple of things that were wrong corrected in the plan. And I took a look at it. I looked at all the compared it to the old plan so there wasn't anything that was. you know. a major change there. so we'll just. you know. give the board a couple of minutes to. you know. kind of take a look at the paperwork and see if there's any questions right now. and then we can sort of start our conversation.
So the board didn't make any decisions at our last meeting. This has been that was why. you know. there was more information that was requested to look at it. What's the specifically? So the variance is actually a standard variance that is required for the sushi process to prepare rice. and it's required for any sushi. any restaurant that serves sushi. and and you know that they are looking to serve add. add sushi on as a new menu item. So. yes. yeah. okay. And so. you know. Beth and I have talked about. you know. some of the prior inspections in their in their establishment. and we felt like more time was needed for. you know. the current menu that they are using. And. you know. perhaps we could do. you know. some inspections on a monthly basis. You know. we had some thoughts about that. but. you know. the applicant wanted to move forward. And you know. that's a board decision to approve the HACCP plan and the permit to serve sushi. You know. we felt that some more time was needed for you know. some of the temperature controls and food handling procedures. As far as you know. the staff at the at China Rose. we felt like some more familiarity and training was needed in those areas with their current venue. And then. you know. these inspection reports were requested. where the and please correct me if I'm wrong. the sushi chef is currently working in Dedham. I believe. yes.
mordas: I'm sorry. Kensley Barrett: that is correct. Julia Junghanns: That's correct. Okay. thank you.
Robert Defrancesco: So where do we stand in the training? Is the training going? On right now. Beth is. are we done the training. or is? Beth Grossman: Well. quite a few inspections were done a few months ago. before the first meeting in July. there were some violations. like temperature of refrigerators. Those have been corrected. I mean. I haven't been there since then. but they're. you know. supposed to be checking those daily. and I haven't been back. But I do have a question about who wrote your passive plan Bianca. who is Bianca and what is the new plan like? Who wrote the new plan that we got today?
Kensley Barrett: All right. so let me correct a couple of things in terms of the HACCP plan. It was created in conjunction with an consulting group called Aurora consultants. based out of Sharon. They helped create the HACCP plan for China Rose with the intention that Mr. Zhou would be the sushi chef. handling the sushi making duties. responsibilities. There was a administrative error and Bianca Rifts name being placed on the document. Bianca Rift is not an employee of China Rose. obviously. and it was more of a clerical issue. more than anything. But to be clear. the HACCP Plan was created in conjunction with the consulting group out of Sharon with the with the intention that Mr. Zhou would be the sushi chef going forward at China Rose. So Bianca Rift should have not appeared in any document. She is no way. shape or form going to be a part of any aspect of China Rose. And so that was just a administrative error. Beth Grossman: Usually. if it's a consulting firm. they put their name on the document. the name of the company and the person. so that wasn't there. Who did the new plan today. It's Aurora Consulting Group. all right. because I don't see I'd have to look back. I don't have it in front of me. Julia Junghanns: Okay. I didn't see a name of a company. But. you know. Mr. Zhou's name was added to the updated copy. Kensley Barrett: So I'm kind of confused here. because I wasn't sure reading the regulation whether it's a requirement that the consulting group's name should be listed on the document. Correct me if I'm wrong again. if I'm wrong tonight. I certainly apologize for that. I didn't know that was a requirement that the consulting name is actually listed on the document itself. Beth Grossman: I don't it's not a requirement. I'm just saying it's usually done okay. so. so we just want to make sure. you know. so it does seem the plan itself seems fine now. Julia and I had talked about. you know. before they start to have somebody go. a consultant. go in and do on site training before they open with all the equipment. and just make sure they're following the HACCP. There's a lot of details. and they know what they have to do with the you know. all the logs. the calibration of the pH meter. the testing of every batch of rice. One thing I didn't see is if they're going to dispose of the rice at the end of the day or not. That wasn't on the plan. You is that the sushi chef behind you? Kensley Barrett: That's correct. Beth Grossman: What does? What does he usually do. we should add that to the plan. Kensley Barrett: All right. you're on mute right now. Food. Can you have Mr. Zhou talk regarding the daily. what's going to happen with the rice at the end of each day? Beth Grossman: Do they keep it and use it in the next. Morning or do they dispose it?
Unknown: No. every day we make a new one. Beth Grossman: Okay. so just put that on the plan that the acidified rice should be disposed at the end of the day. Yeah. Julia Junghanns: So. okay. I'm just making a note of that on here.
Kensley Barrett: I want to add as well that Mr. Zhou. he will be the only individual from China Rose involved in the handling of decision making. There are no other employees that will be handling any of the product now. certainly the owner of the establishment food will be involved in helping receive some of the fish shipments that come in. But in terms of the actual creation of the product. it'll only be Mr. Zhao.
Brett Mordas: so what I remember from last. the last meeting. is that Beth definitely goes out twice a year. Remember. right? Yep. to do we want to make. make something contingent upon the establishment paying for more frequent inspections or anything like that?
Julia Junghanns: You mean. if they say the board approves the sushi um. addition to their menu and Brett Mordas: well. for that. I just like six months is a lot. yes. and you're so you only hitting that one day. Julia Junghanns: That's the standard for any food establishment. mordas: I do not know that. Julia Junghanns: yeah. I mean. it's certainly something to consider. The we're not. you know. they are all day. So. you know. we don't. you know that is. that's part of the every. twice a year. inspection. you know. to check in and see how things are going with the. you know. understanding that there's a serve. safe. trained. you know. person that's managing the operations. and. you know. making sure that if there's any staff turnover. that new staff is trained and understands food handling and food safety and all those basic essentials of you know. being a restaurant. And you know. there can be turnover in restaurants. as you know. this probably significantly some cases. But you know. we could consider some kind of plan. I don't know what your thoughts are. back. but you know. we would be doing a check. you know. we would be doing an inspection. We wouldn't be managing. you know. the day to day operations provide an issue with check back to yes. there's a fault. You know that typically. whatever. depending on the violation. typically. there's a follow up inspection. yes. and there's. like. a number of days. you know. to come to fix the violations.
Kensley Barrett: If I may. my understanding. sorry to interrupt. If I may. my understanding was that when the previous inspections. one of the concerns was the temperature of one of the refrigerators. I believe that one of the things that help alleviate any concerns regarding the temperature is the fact that China Rose has procured an entire new refrigerator refrigeration systems specifically for the purpose of handling fish and sushi products. Certainly that is something that can be monitored with a digital thermometer that the owner of China grows has access to on a daily basis. So to the extent that the concern was the temperatures. certainly. I think that is the remedy has been established for that. And in terms of the cleanliness of China Rose. I think that what I proposed previously was to gather the records from Mr. Zhou. current place of employment to kind of demonstrate over the last five years. issues that might have arisen. and I understand that Beth has pointed out that there was maybe an issue regarding employees washing hands and maybe the pH log book. Doubt. Certainly I'm happy that we provided the. Occurs to be completely transparent with Mr. Zhou's place of employment. Hope that doesn't lead everyone to believe that he's responsible for every issue that arose out of his current place of employment. but certainly with respect to his sushi making capabilities and ensuring the safety of patients that eat there. I don't think there was any glaring issues that came about through the report that I provided. right?
We certainly would be amenable. Sorry. We certainly be amenable if. if it requires that China Rose paid for additional inspections. if the board decided to grant the variance. we certainly be amenable to 60 day or 90 day spot inspections. just to ensure that China Rose is following the asset as required.
Dr. Genevieve Anand: is a separate area where he's prepping this machine away from the rest of the kitchen. Julia Junghanns: No. that's a question for the folks at China rose about where the preparation area will be. Unknown: So that is correct. There is a separate area. It's more forward facing. whereas majority of the food prep takes place in the kitchen. In terms of the sushi creation. that would be forward facing more in a dining area where there is a setup already that's been waiting to be used. essentially. So it would not be at the same place where the current food process is currently situated. It would be actually in. like a dining area. that is where the sushi making would be. Beth Grossman: I mean. they have the setup from the old owner. They did sell sushi many years ago. but they stopped because it wasn't profitable. They didn't have the volume. So the equipment's still there. Just want to make sure it's still working properly at the right temps. so they already have the separate front of the house area with the display case. display refrigerators. you know. the under the counter refrigerator. the cutting boards. the hand sink. So so they do have a separate area. yes. yeah. Dr. Genevieve Anand: Was documents. were these helpful for you? Julia Junghanns: I'm sorry. Yeah. they were helpful. Then. yeah. yeah. because we're. I mean. we're familiar with reviewing things like that. so. you know. that was what. you know. then Beth had mentioned. there were a couple things related to. you know. having a pH log and hand washing
and so. you know. it's helpful to have this information for sure. You know. just so we can have an idea how things were going. Robert Defrancesco: I guess the board has to decide. Or do we feel comfortable where China Rose to add additional food to their menu based upon the previous violations that were corrected? So the board has to. we feel comfortable moving forward to allow them. So I want you to think about that. But also what you're saying error is it would. it would be completion on six months. Jonathan Storer: Well. we could add that. Yes. it's add on to that. But I guess you didn't mind. Julia Junghanns: and we wanted the consultant. you know to. as Beth mentioned. to review the HACCP plan and make sure that you know the plan is being followed and staff are trained on it before they open to serve sushi. And then Beth would typically do an inspection. but that part of the you know. of that inspection isn't really to do that training. you know what I mean. So that's what we would ask for. There are a number of food safety consultants that we were able to find online through the state. Website. which we can share with the staff at China Rose
Jonathan Storer: Beth. do you think additional inspections is helpful? Beth Grossman: I think the consultant making sure that every part of the plan is followed. And then I would probably go in. you know. a few weeks later and see how things are being maintained. And at that point. then I can. then we can see if we need more frequent inspections or not. If it's everything is good. then. you know. it would be. I would have to wait and see how it was going. I mean. we can go in at any time. There's no. you know. we're not limited to twice a year. and we can go in anytime. if there's a concern. So it will just be a judgment call at that point.
Robert Defrancesco: Does the consultant provide training? Julia Junghanns: They can. Yeah. Brett Mordas: and usually Beth just does inspection. She doesn't do training Beth Grossman: I mean. I've done trainings there when they first took over. because I was concerned with the whole staff. That was for the kitchen for sushi. I do an inspection. and part of that is training if there's anything wrong. but they're supposed to be on top of all that. that they're serve safe. certified. and they follow the plan. and if they don't. then that's what we go over. Brett Mordas: Would you feel more comfortable doing more more frequent inspections for the first year or two after they got there. Beth Grossman: I mean. like I said. I'm gonna. I would defer till I get the consultants report on the training and my first inspection. and then I'll be able to tell so I think you could leave that up to us. I
mordas: questions. report. is Dr. Genevieve Anand: this contingent upon their clearing of all the other violations. or is this a separate
Beth Grossman: as of the last re inspection. everything was corrected. I don't know about the dish machine gages. They were on back order. but the machine. the dish machines. were working. Any update on that China Rose? Unknown: yeah. everything is. everything has just been inspected already. right? Okay. Beth Grossman: yeah. so there's no nothing outstanding as of the last time I was there.
Kathyrn Holland Stiff: just double checking was that a recommendation to have inspection without major violations prior to moving foeward with new menu items that the recommendation had been.
Beth Grossman: I can't really hear. Can you repeat what that question was? Yeah. Julia Junghanns: so the question was. was the recommendation that an inspection be done without any major violations prior to moving forward with the sushi? Is that the question? Beth Grossman: I mean. we've done that already. I feel like we we've already done that. So. I mean. we can't. we can't micromanage. you know?
Robert Defrancesco: So would we make. make the make it contingent upon the consultant completing training? Yes. And Beth. would you go for an inspection before they serve or after they can serve? Beth Grossman: I would talk to the consultant and ask them. what you know. how it went. if everything was in order. and then it's better to wait a few weeks when they get in the groove and see how everything's maintained. That's a better use of everyone's time. I've been doing this 30 years. I'm I know.
Unknown: to approve
Jonathan Storer: after their consultant has completed their training. right don't need to go back to the board for that Unknown: word. approval of consultants? Darren R. MacCaughey: No. I think that they can do that. Julia Junghanns: It's in the board's vote. Then. you know. we would just make sure. you know. we would make sure that the consultant training is followed with and then Beth would be. you know. consulting with that person. right? You know. but we would still need to approve their request for variance. to acidify rice. to render it safe. blah. blah. blah. as written on the agenda here. yeah. that's something that's required for preparing sushi. so that would need to be approved. And then you could add into the motion. you know. provided that a consultant review the plan and train them on it beforereopening inspection Jonathan Storer: followed by that's. well. that's gonna happen? Yeah. I make a motion to approve the variance to acidify rice for China Rose contingent upon the consultant providing instruction and training.
Robert Defrancesco: We have a second or do you want to add? Jonathan Storer: second
Dr. Genevieve Anand: You mentioned the house. Julia Junghanns: That's part of what Beth Grossman: the that was already that was already approved. Yeah. Unknown: Okay. so we have a second. so let's do a roll call. Robert Defrancesco: Dr Genevieve Anand Dr. Genevieve Anand: Yes. Robert Defrancesco: Dr Brett Mordas. Brett Mordas: yes. Robert Defrancesco: John Storer Jonathan Storer: Yes. Robert Defrancesco: Katherine Stiff. Kathyrn Holland Stiff: yeah. Robert Defrancesco: and Dr Bob DeFrancesco. that's approved. I
Julia Junghanns: Okay. so next steps will be to I can share with you that list of consultants. and you know I have your email. so I'll send that over to you first thing tomorrow. That's okay. and then you could let us know you know who you end up hiring Unknown: Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone. Have a good evening. Yeah. you too. Thanks. Beth. Thank you. Julia Junghanns: Great. Yep. so I don't was I tried to get a
mosquito surveillance update. That's. you know. as of today. but I don't have yet. We do have information from the state that I'm going to share. There have been a number of towns in. I guess you could say Metro West Central Mass that have tested positive. West Nile. they've had the mosquitos. I'm not aware of any people yet. but they don't have been our risk level changed from low to moderate today. Dr. Genevieve Anand: Framingham Julia Junghanns: Framingham. yeah. So. you know. there's a lot of mosquito activity hot weather. you know. good breathing time. although it is dry right now. I think it's supposed to rain this week. but so. you know. this is the report from the state. It's on their website. Um. when they did do testing in Wayland there were no positive mosquitoes. So that was a good thing. although I don't know when they're doing it again. so I will find out. But there's seven locations in Town that are options for them to get mosquito samples from either a rapid trap or a light trap. depending on which location it is. So they do have some good options for mosquito samples. And then they collect them. bring them to the lab. And they do like a number of mosquitoes to. you know. get a gauge on populations. like. how many are there? It's a very mosquito-y. and then they test for diseases. And you know. mainly for us. it's West Nile. But they do have light traps. which are for other types of mosquitoes that can carry other types of diseases. more similar to triple E. although we don't have Cedar swamps in town. where those types of mosquitoes breed. So that's good news for us. Those are mainly in Sudbury. so we usually put a big fan on the border. so that blows all the mosquitoes back into Sudbury. But so. you know. that's where we're at right now that did kind of shift pretty quickly. I mean. that's sort of standard for this time of year. but I will probably send out. you know. like an update to the community. just regarding. you know. protecting yourselves from mosquitoes. and some tips on that. So probably do that tomorrow. or sometime this week. Jonathan Storer: You must have some algae news about something. Julia Junghanns: So that is. Robert Defrancesco: it seems like we haven't Julia Junghanns: right. So right now there's an algae bloom in middle pond of Lake Cochituate that was just announced today. I was at the Town beach today. and they have they don't have lifeguards anymore because everyone went back to school. but the beach is still open. swimming ground. rest. no life guards. but we're continuing with testing the water for E coli and cyanobacteria. at least until Labor Day. unless you know the results from this week show that we have the bloom going on. We did see the pond. I mean. the lake itself looks very clear actually. where the beach area is. and there's nothing really in the swim area. but when you look to the sides. there's definitely stuff stewing over on the sides just beyond the beach. So I did take some samples of that. as well as beach water for cyanobacteria. So we should have information on that within the next 24 to 48 hours. and then we did our standard E coli testing as well. So. but I shared the information with the state. and they. you know. basically. are waiting till they see. I think. our results from the actual water samples. They've. you know. thought that they would recommend an advisory at this time for our beach area. So I will let you know what happens with that this this is definitely the time of the year. I thought it would be this week. but it might be next week. where Jonathan Storer: we've lucky this year. though. right? i mean Julia Junghanns: Yeah. we've been. yeah. it's actually been Julia Junghanns: yeah. And that Cove is definitely. you know. it really good. The water clarity has been better than I thought it would be. Usually. right now it starts really kind of looking you can see a lot of particles in the water column. which. you know. to me. is not really a great. a great thing to be looking at the water is especially I look at it really close. Most people are like. are we not looking at that? But you know. you can see some of the algae spores in the water. you know what I mean. And so I don't know if I saw that today or not. I'm not really sure. It's definitely changing a little bit. The temperature is a big factor. Was actually 80.5 degrees today. or 80.3 and so once it goes above 79 ish. then. you know. that's kind of like when things start happening and blooms start current. So I was surprised the water felt cooler. because when I was here. before I went on vacation. the water was like 83 it was like really warm I was. and it was actually looking a little more on the murky side. and now it looks better. So I don't know. It's hard to know. So far so good.
doesn't get a lot of circulation. And then if there's no wind. or. you know. I guess if there's rain. that makes it worse. So because the water washes in and the poop gets on the shoreline. but the beach has its they have it set up over there pretty well. where they have all these. like. I don't know if anyone's been there lately. but they have all these flags. They put up. It's like a string of flags. and they hang it so that the geese are sort of spooked by it. They don't like. you know. and then they put chairs up so they can't get on the shore. So they do all these things that help prevent the geese from landing there. because otherwise it would be bad. like I've seen it get pretty bad on this. No. none of these things happening. you know. the whole Dock can be actually covered in poop so. But it was pretty clean today. I was very I was impressed. Septic system legal order at 4Wheellock. we found out today that they actually hired someone to design their septic system. and Darren is working on a soil testing gate. So so that's good news. and our legal order for 12 Indian Road actually. the tenant there is not allowing people in to do any follow up inspections. according to the owner. so we are waiting until they leave. Our understanding is that they're being evicted. That was what was told to us by the owner. So it's a little tricky. you know. we don't want to get into a scuffle with a tenant. you know. that isn't happy about leaving. so we'll wait until after that happens. And you know. we have been in touch with the owner a number of times. and they have indicated that they've corrected all the violations. So everything that we indicated in our letter. they said they've. So the public health nurse search has been going on. done they've fixed.
several interviews. and expecting to probably do at least a couple of follow up interviews as well. We do have some good applicants. so that's the good news. and hoping to get that wrapped up and squared away pretty soon. considering school starts and flu vaccination season and all kinds of things coming up that we need help with. because I'm not a nurse.
we do have Katie Rines. who's our Regional Public Health Nurse. who's been helping us with anything that comes up. including our communicable disease surveillance. which is on Maven. So she's been going in and checking that. you know. make sure that any follow up is done for anything that comes through there and so or as well as anything else that comes up. So that's been helpful to have our support.
And I think I shared with the board the Town Manager's email on PFAS. products. new purchases. existing supplies and disposal. So. you know. basically. there are directives for not using products. new products. that have PFAS. and reviewing our supplies and making sure we're disclosing the things properly. There's a guide that we were provided with on. in general. PFAS products. which is dated June. So that's pretty recent. June 25 I think I shared it with everyone. Yeah. I started looking at it. I want to take another fresh look at it. because it has some interesting 1000 here. So carpets. it's kind of scary. It's like probably tents and different products that are water repellent. Jonathan Storer: the stain resistant used to spray onn furniture so that nothing would. yeah. that's pure PFAS Julia Junghanns: I know And the stuff you'd spray on your boots all the time. you know. hopefully not inside. Unknown: you mean. for waterproofing. yeah. so I use. like. a waxy Julia Junghanns: yeah. that's. well. that's probably PFAS too. mordas: I can spray it on. Julia Junghanns: I mean. any you know some of these products that. you know. people use on skis or other types of boards that are. you know. like sports equipment or anything like that. I would probably guess it may have PFAS in it prior to now. I mean. maybe. I'm sure there's still stuff that's made that has it in there. but should we Right. yeah. yeah. So that was. Dr. Genevieve Anand: is it changing practices for people making these products? Julia Junghanns: That's the really good question. I don't know the answer to that. That's like. you know. that was something I had wondered about the. you know. the spray. the extinguisher. spray farm. you know. are they still making that. and are they still selling it? Are some Towns actually still buying that. and anytime I see something on the news where there's like a fire and they're spraying with stuff. I'm like. is that all PFAS? I don't know. Yeah. it could be. because I don't know. I think there's a certain amount of time where. you know. towns have to get rid of this stuff. So are they still using it? Dr. Genevieve Anand: I don't know. You can get that. We can share so you can offer. I don't know what it is that's the environment. instantly. fabric. Oh. okay. so. yeah. trusting them like. just like the old supplements. Kathyrn Holland Stiff: they just organic.
Julia Junghanns: right? Yeah. so thank you. yeah. I know we do have a list of some water. and I think I have shared that with the board a while back. but we probably have new members since then. we had a list of water filtration pictures and things like that that we got from the water department that were advocated by the Environmental Working Group. And so I actually ended up buying one myself. It's. you know. and it takes out. like it filters. you know. certain things as well as PFAS and labor. I noticed as well. you know. like. although I know signal Marine. you know. So I can share that again. if anyone is interested. I trusted.
and it's. you know. I feel like it's better than fine plastic water bottle. So it's not. you know. they will cheat. We don't have stacks. It took an adjustment. but now I don't even buy water bottles anymore. I'd use the pitcher. We'd refill it all the time and refill all our containers with with that water. So. you know. it's also the way that stop using plastic so much. you know? I mean. sometimes you need water bottles. I mean. you know. you can't get around it. but sometimes you can't even buy them. I mean. the Cape has banned on to in certain towns. And. you know. you go to buy water. you're going to buy aluminum water. I'd rather have a water pitcher than that. But Dr. Genevieve Anand: so are you putting that up on the website? Julia Junghanns: I think it's. I don't know if it is or not. I should. though that's probably a good idea. I think this could be on the on the website.
Yeah. I mean. the thing is. is that it was never to my knowledge. You know. when I got that information from Don Millette in the water department. I said. Oh. well. does the state. like. did they certify this or whatever? He was like. I don't have no idea. And he said. I don't think they do. but he wasn't sure if they actually had gotten to that yet. So I asked the state they didn't know anything about at the time. This was like. new information. so I don't know. And then the problem is. who you ask that what? It's a very specific question. So. yeah. yeah. And so. you know. we could put it on there just as information. not necessarily recommending it. but that. here's some information that we have. You. Know. if people want to look into it. you know. it's just that was why we were hesitant at the time. because it wasn't certified by anybody that we accepted this environmental work input. which is very tough. from what I've heard so
and then the last thing I have shared the information from Ben Gould our town LSP on the air testing report from the Council on Aging Community Center. I don't know if anyone had a chance to look at that. Let me see I. I mean. there were some findings in the report which I can re share it with you. but you know. the conclusion was that those findings were likely because the building is new. and there's all kinds of different products that have recently been used in the building. You know. floor polishes. paints and. you know. other types of instruction. materials that are fresh and so. you know. they recommend. And the levels were low. but they were protected in some areas. they recommend that the community center sub slab. ventilation system. which they have. continue to operate continuously. as a best management practice. not as a requirement to satisfy DEP regulation. You know. recognizing that there are no violations. they do not recommend any further testing of either property. sub slab. soil vapor or indoor air at this time. So that was the conclusion of that.
And you know the history was the Raytheon property and the contamination over there. and you know. the ongoing reporting and testing that's been done over the years of those of the property. and you know this property was also part of that so.
And that's it. I don't have the minutes ready yet. They were almost ready. but they still need a little work. You know. the office has been busy because of vacations. You know. for the most part. Pat is on vacation. This week I was on vacation. So you know. you're always trying to catch up on certain things. but still working on open the permitting. and we have some meetings coming up this week to talk more about that with other Town staff and meet with our new IT director to you know. kind of talk through some of the technology woes that we've had over the years that they might be able to help with. Mike McCann. who was here for a number of years. has retired. and so they recently hired a new IT director. Those are the same. I think we do have a department heads meeting this week. so that could be other new information that not thinking of right now. but I will certainly share it. We're going to start working on the annual report. and that'll be something that we talk about. you know. at our next meeting. as well as probably invite the Human Relations Service to come in and. you know. provide us with an update on the work that they've been doing. saying that there were some questions too last time we. you know. talked about their report. So that'll probably be next at our September Darren R. MacCaughey: so thanks for meeting Julia Junghanns: today in our permit fees. That'll be the next one that I work on. along with the annual report. So now that I've dug out from vacation. so
mordas: we have a motion to adorn
Robert Defrancesco: second I second the motion. Doctor Genevieve Anand. Yes. Dr. Brett Mordas Yes. John Storer. yes. Katherine Stiff. yes. Dr. Bob Defranseco. yes. Meeting adjourned