February 17, 2026 – Route 20 South Landfill Visioning Committee – Video & Transcript
February 17, 2026 - Route 20 South Landfill Visioning Committee
we have a quorum at 6 p.m on february 17 2026 meeting of the 20 south manfield committee
we'll call this meeting to order those in attendance
all by zoom thick lewis mike spellman myself tom faye we may have others join us with the meeting
aggressive our agenda uh uh before we get to the agenda this reminder the folks at this meeting
obviously can we watch this evening on zoom and it will be on date and available for watching
on way can at later date when it becomes available invite people to give public comment this evening
but ask if you have comment regarding the stock landfill that would be best public for the public
forum we wait after you wait until that time we will start the public forum in a few minutes
our agenda will include public comments and review of our minutes from summer 22nd 2025 and a central vote to approve we'll then hold a public forum which will include a presentation by head shoe care of the collaborative we'll invite questions from those who have any comments comments from the public as well as committee members after that our committee will discuss our work including draft and the report to be submitted to the select board concerning our recommendations um after that we will adjourn so at this time anybody who has public comments comment to raise their hand and happy to hear them out although again if you're here for the public forum we have to just wait until that forum begins with the interesting ones and we'll hear from you with that when you're here for the public or anyone online like make public comments don't seem bad they're hand raised okay we will close the comment the public comment period in the review minutes in our packet on summer 22nd 2025 entertain a motion to approve those minutes um so moved moved yeah all right that that was mike yeah i think anyone second second thank you discussion on the motion hearing none i was in favor of the motion cliff do you have to do roll call tom because we're virtual in favor for the vote yes correct so i'm i just said uh anyone so i asked cliff whether he's oh i'm sorry oh i'm sorry yeah cliff yes um ira uh here aaron yes uh mike yes yes great and that's a six nothing vote appreciate that um we'll now um move on to the public forum and open a public forum and we welcome um holder and i'd ask robbie to move ed shu care over to the main meeting
what what name did you say uh there's a gentleman ed shu care okay and the collaborative who you could move over to the main meeting and move over to the main meeting as a participant you said at at shakir
yes i don't i don't i don't i don't see the name right i don't see him there at all right now i don't see him i'm looking well i'm here um it may show up as the collaborative there you go actually it shows up as me yeah not nearly as good looking though as the other
i'm not sure if that was meant for you or me but both of you can take and um you want me to get started if you could change your name that would be great and then i can do that while you're doing that i'm going to um okay now which tom faye do i change so if you go to and right click you should be able to change it right click down there to be able to change under participants sir uh no um robbie are you able to change uh ed's name i can change him s-h-o-u-c-a-i-n thanks thank you so by way of background relative to this committee uh it was created in 2020 to assist the select board with studying disposition and use town-owned land referred to as the south landfill parcel located on route 20 across from all the oxbow and the transfer facility the size is about 17 acres i'm going to uh attempt to play a uh drone video i like chat just to um
this drone video um depicts the area so again it's about 17 acres in size the acreage of the former landfill was capped and closed on the oversight of now called massachusetts department of environment protection committee originally supplies of eight members including members that's again by the following town board and committee conservation commission economic development committee recreation commission planning board board of public works and school community down the committee has seven members this time as the edc the economic development committee do not replace any gentleman who recently had been launched in the committee our term ends on february 27 2006. our charge includes recommending to the select board the best use of the timeline one of our key tasks was to hire two consultants in part of our effort they would study the problem one consultant called the collaborative which is the national public policy planning design and communications from ian weston samson engineering service and to care is here tonight to chat about his work to date and his recommendations they'll bring items up on the screen so people can further appreciate his thoughts our committee has met several times in the past five years i'd like to thank tom holder for attending every meeting tom's knowledge of a site and development of a site like this is invaluable and we really appreciate his commitment to committee and our um so again we've met several times in the past five years we've given serious thought to the select board's charge but tonight's public forum will bring a presentation by the collaborators as you can followed by comments and questions by members of the public and committee members i'd like to thank educare for his commitment to the site and and his expertise and at this time i'll stop the screen chair invite ed to take from here and talk about his thoughts on the problem sure let me share my screen thank you tom so just the my presentations organized by just talk a little bit about the site a little bit about our doing a community needs assessment and then recommendations and then we'll present a site layout and then have some discussion and not not everybody knows you can you give a couple sentences on your background oh sure my name is ed show care i'm one of the principles of a the collaborative urban planning design firm um based in boston with um going with well over 35 years in business we've got offices in boston atlanta philadelphia and in palo alto um i'm an mit trained urban planner and uh site planning is a specialty of mine but we did we worked our this was a project with a number of my firm's uh professionals landscape architects and others architects at one point um have been working on this and we've been working hand in glove with weston and sampson uh engineering firm terrific engineering firm uh on the project so uh the site as tom pointed out is about 17 acres um east is to um is the the narrowest part of the site west is the widest part of the site the area known as parcels divide into two uh parcels of land parcel one is the largest um it's made up of the former landfill uh in the lighter colors and in the grayish color that's about four and a half acres of wetlands um the parcel two um and and and and and it's that whitish colored part that was actively uses as as a landfill um by the town and our parcel two just shy of six acres uh was um is was was operated um toward as a uh a gravel was taken out of that uh part of the site and it wasn't actively used as a landfill but when the the state required it to be closed and capped um the landfill uh plan was to take some of the material a good amount of the material from the active landfill and put it into that cavity created by the gravel being removed so it now while it wasn't a landfill as an actively operated one it contains landfill material so the entire area has been capped by standards that were when the landfill was capped um it's got a couple feet of uh soil on top um and there the city the town is working with the ep to um make sure that the cap is still in in in uh in we there's amid some site investigations to make sure that the cap is still holding up and it and it is um and uh so that's the history of it the site is next to the great marsh as you all know great marsh national wildlife refuge um the state is going to tcr department of conservation and recreation has been hoping to put a multi-use trail shared path for along that old rail line there uh the oxbow out the oxbow is across the way and we're up but you know walk up against the sudbury line um this when we started the the committee had been meeting for some period of time and uh and try the and identified 17 possible uses for the 17 acres and we just organized i organized those by low impact lower impact of higher impact higher impact housing commercial and what was identified by the committee as a town gateway i guess that was more of a mixed use kind of development um and lower impact conservation area for birding and general natural conservation uh vegetation of borders for whatever went on the site that was a desire uh there was a desire to do design whatever was there with nature fields and by that was explained to us a sports fields uh a trail head for that future uh trail that the dcr tends to build a river access area an amphitheater a dog park uh a dpw materials handling area which highway materials recycling center was identified at the time um parking uh shared parking was one of the uh uses identified school bus parking restrooms solar generation uh wastewater leaching fields so these are what we were given at the beginning of our work as as the committee identified as possible uh uses of the land reuses for the land we continued we started with that and then we went out and did interviews we talked with weston and samson samson to get more background on the uh challenge of building on a landfill um or doing anything on a landfill not just building but uh making use of landfill talked with tom faye the chair others certainly tom holder the wayland public schools the recreation department the housing authority the economic development committee and others in the community um we did a little we did some research on what was going on in the town as urban planners you know what what are the future needs of the community um and uh some other uh research and our general findings that um early on was that the highest priority needs were for housing you know especially starter homes um there was a lack of starter homes in the community you all know this that came through uh there was a need with 35 of the population over 55 for homes for old older residents um as well as supported housing for youth with disabilities um that was identified uh as a priority and then certainly uh at the nbta's housing requirements was on the back came out and it was uh was uh certainly a parameter that we took into consideration so those we identified early on as uh as the high priority needs and and and let me just stop there well and the secondary ones were recreation especially in a playing field for soccer lacrosse some informal playing with and and then a third one that out of that list came out was the materials handling for the dpw um and and then bus parking those were that and then others just the didn't make it up as quite as high as these and so for a time we really looked at the possibility of putting housing on the site and spent a good amount of time a lot of creative energy working with uh less than samson the town and then with dep a mass department of environmental protection who's to see if it was possible because in some states um building homes on landfills are it's permitted um it's not regulatorily not permitted um but it would dep made it clear to us that for them to be comfortable with it they would uh with housing they they would want the material underneath the area where the housing would go to be taken away and disposed of at another landfill facility outside and the cost of that was do we turned out to be prohibitive prohibitive we had looked like i said as at some of the techniques used it and allowed in other states to build on top by putting an impervious layer between the landfill material and and and housing above but that the ep made it clear to us that that wasn't gonna be acceptable to them so because of cost we dropped that and then we looked then to the secondary and third priorities that came out of in our research and of those you know the certainly the conservation was high priority especially on the edges and and that for four and a half acres to the east our plan includes a one major uh field a soccer field is and then an informal playing field that trail head because for future use uh public access to the trail uh highway materials recycling and school bus parking those are the ones that we've then brought into a site plan that we'll show you here and um so to the i'll start with the western side of the site you see access from route two for to a parking lot that would serve an athletic field that would be 300 feet by 150 feet uh which is a high school regular regulation size uh field with an apron around it of about 30 feet on either side and then about 45 feet on the ends um the field would have a certain amount of fencing we want to keep to keep the balls from rolling off and we um there's parking for as many as 82 parking spots so more you know certainly enough to on a busy and and this field could be used as a lot of as we know in a lot of communities you know for you eights and seven and so on you can break the fields up into smaller areas for different couple games to be taking place at the same time or it could be used for one larger single field game um at these there's parking sufficient to uh to accommodate that use as well as we we put a parking there also for people to come and um even when there is a game um to park there and then make use of a trip of a path that that would lead down and this is ada um of five meets ada requirements for accessibility it's below five percent or less grade down to the future trail here um at the top along the field we have an overlook so people can um we would imagine some benches there for people to sit out and look out and look and enjoy with binoculars if they want to do some observing of birds and other wildlife um the path would swing around the edge of the field and come down to this middle area of a flexible outdoor space it's just a large field um that could serve a lot of informal play um and so on kite flying and those kinds of things a very flexible space um to make this work there's new clean fill would be brought in as and and this is quite common um to be done to take old landfills and use them for fields and i'll show you these images here these are of a of an old landfill that's been turned into playing field soccer fields in boston in west roxbury um you see the tops of the fields here have been leveled off with clean fill brought in um you see how the height the fields are up there and then there's paths that come down um from there to around the site into other locations so it's quite common um to do this in the state um and clean fills is nowhere is nowhere near as expensive of uh as as as you know it's it's not a not it's not too expensive of a of um to to create these kinds of fields um the uh the to the east we're showing um uh an area for bus parking to so the buses from down from downtown could from your town center could be brought out here plus parking for the bus drivers when they um when they're out driving as well as an area first for dpw to have material handling here and the access would be here from route 20 and then we're within all of the wetland um buffers set 100 foot uh the 100 foot wetland setback here within the we're within the we're outside of the um uh the the the flood zone um and uh and we have planted we're managing planted slopes here uh to for to promote wildlife uh as well as to provide some some uh shading of especially when we put some planted slope here of of the bark the bus parking area here and the dpw uh activities here um so we that will be planted as well and around and around the edges but that's at a scale where concept design or or uh and that that that those things get worked out as as the town will move into uh design and development so um with that does anyone have any open it up to questions right now yeah i'll um ask that the public be invited to comment or ask questions and then once we finish that base then members of the committee can do you want to say something no no sure tom so you want me to continue oh uh you continue with your presentation and then and then we'll invite comments i'm really and we can come back to this um i'll just i'm moving into the summary phase so of those 17 uses we were we've you know shown the the birding the vegetation um the a field a major field with an informal field the trailhead for the to make use of the future multi-use trail the highway materials and the school bus parking and i do let me go back i should point out what um one of we do do not have um have not done a pricing exercise for this yet we have we've been working hard on it and but we haven't yet come up with a cost estimates one of the reasons is we we have to do further research into what is going to be required to capture the storm runoff from this large hard surface impervious surface area where the park buses will be parked and the materials will be stored that's sloped down we're going to the storm runoff water would be captured and detained and and it would then be treated on site that's a that's a common technique but we haven't priced that out yet um that's not going to be cheap and what does that mean we'll let you know when within the next within the next two weeks we'll have that answer for you for that as well as a much better ballpark estimate for the entire um project um so um that that that's those that's where we are in costs um with that i just open it up to discussion so this time i invite members of the public who have questions and comments to just indicate with your hand raise and i'll acknowledge you and then we can ask you a question and thank you kind of um tom siaka you could yeah yeah uh hi guys um you can hear me i assume yes we can hear you tom okay so uh reading the um packet material uh i had a couple of concern with well let me say uh number one i um i see uh several positive elements in again what was in the back of material the school bus parking is something i've been advocating for a long time um particularly with charging capability again it's not it's not something that we need today but we will need eventually and we need to plan for the future um not just current needs and um i um also was was happy to see in the packet material uh solar included but i don't see it here i'm tom let me mention i'm sorry this is a site plan i didn't think we're that's something we'll work we're going to look at uh over by the the uh in the area of the uh covering at least we're trying to figure out how to cover that um have it the there are large vehicles trucks buses are pretty tall um as well as the other truck vehicles coming in so it it wouldn't be the easiest thing to do to just canopy over with solar panels which uh we have to look at that and that's that would be in design development it's the town certainly has expressed that desire as well as at least trying to get a charger in for some of the vehicles um but those those items need to be as we further look into uh um the next phase of working the details out of this those are those i'm sorry if i didn't mention that the town has asked us to look at those as well okay so um i'm uh you you ought to know it uh i wear i wear several hats i think the committee members know me but um one of them is i'm the um whalen representative to the wild and scenic river stewardship council uh i'm the river guy and another hat i i wear is i'm a member of the the energy and climate committee good uh so um on the one hand i um would love to see a solar on the site on the other hand uh i can't see anything visible from the river that would compromise its its wild and scenic river character right so um let me point out to everyone the town has already gone through through significant effort to preserve the wild and scenic river view scape with the uh alta oxbow project for example they reduced the height of the buildings so they would be invisible from the river with the um whalen town center project again the the building heights were restricted so the uh trees in in between the project and the river would screen them effectively um so uh i clearly can't say anything very specific here lacking you know a specific proposal but uh you need to take that into account so tom thank you so a little bit back we're we're we're we've got that and we care about that my background was uh when i graduated came out of grad school i started the what's called the massachusetts riverways program which is is that was back in the 80s early 80s which is a state program to protect river help protect river corridors that's still in effect today and so my lens and i i think maybe you know bill geese and tanner one of our um landscape designers he he's done work with the constant way at the wayland conservation commission over the years and i mean we the we're we're landscape architects we care a lot about this you know it's one of the things reasons why we've said to the town you know not only plant the slopes and so on the town has said they want it to but not to put lighting on the field yes absolutely and to be thinking about lighting and caring about that and so yeah and the solar could be problematic from the panels facing south again it would be facing the river corridor it could be problematic with the wildlife and so with reflection and so on so these will be things that we'll look at but have in mind and care about and um so i'll stop there okay excellent um the one other thing i i noticed um again in the packet and you haven't haven't mentioned is the dog park and um dog waste is really toxic stuff you probably know that um so i would i i don't know anything about how you'd you design a dog park but uh i'd be very concerned about again what happens to run off through the dog waste and its its effect on the river and let me mention by the way the river uh although a lot of people have the impression it's polluted the river is really clean you you can swim in the river just fine right now with with the only issue with it is mercury and mercury is not is not in the water mercury is only an issue if you eat the fish right but uh in terms of bacteriological conditions it is really clean and we don't want to screw that up so tom we we as you see there's no formal dog park here um and the town you know we looked at it and uh and there's no and if i would think that if someone is bringing their dogs there um that that should be some educational material to say please you know take whatever litter whatever you bring in take out with you and and that'll just have to be monitored but with in that way but there's right now there's no formal it's an open playing field if people bring their dogs there we hope that you know through the people i'm sure that most residents who have dogs are gonna mine their dogs and so on but um so i think so that dog park the a lot of dogs being here is i i think will not become an issue okay great i think that's all i have to say thank you tom uh other persons who have comments or questions in the public just read your hand yes i do see miss miss podell yes
i have a question if i can slip in here um all right hold on a second you can just get to the how about you and then we'll come to the members yeah okay miss podell good evening hi hope podell seven janitor road um i'll keep it short and i know that this is not necessarily something that we're at
um and one is a question not to be answered necessarily right now is the field that you're talking about if it's uh the the full size or or two versus one is were you talking about or somebody talking about artificial turf as no way but rather grass it would it would we're we're only imagined grass uh with as with uh irrigated grass grass an irrigation system okay that's good um the other thing that i just thought of we don't we have adult children but we have grandchildren is um it i think it was in the black versus the green category i'm not sure that the need particularly for the fields um of restrooms i i couldn't imagine that it was not put as a priority no i think hope you uh you we would and as we go into further development that we'd probably recommend to the town that they have some kind of porta potties here which is common at these kinds of facilities um as a way for people to have you know to as opposed to a structure we can't for us to put a building on this capped landfill would would would um be problematic to dep for to have a structure to go down into the that would just interfere we can have some a couple of in some places some retaining walls that aren't very deep but uh not a building so to to you definitely want to have some some porta potties that are maintained uh-huh okay and the um i don't know where we are i'm not sure that you've completely addressed it but um to have potential housing which you mentioned in the beginning is um one of my beefs has always been the articulation of uh ama or the area median income a portion of it which uh in the town like wayland our area median income is higher than many many communities and it still requires a rent that is to me in my mind astronomical so i don't know if there was any thought at all yet given to the idea of
not not charging i don't know what it is now for the requirement but um below um the well when we housing's off the table uh we looked at it we looked at it including affordable you know more affordable units and so on absolutely that was going to be part of the housing when we looked at it but the cost of doing it as per is so prohibitive that as you see there's there's no housing on the that recommended for this gotcha um just one more and i'm sure there's there are people that are very concerned about the talk of in area one the wetlands and uh in there i think is the great marsh national wildlife and i'm really concerned about not not killing them off while you're doing construction for whatever it is and disturbing them to a point i'm not sure what would be but that's uh my last question that i had that's that's this would be done with within the uh you know let's say birds or especially birds but other animals they they're they can habituate um they can get used to and it wouldn't even have to be for too long but they will be disturbed and they'll move you know away and it's not going to be 24 hours a day they'll know that you know um and we're not in their habitat areas we're on the edge of it um so it is that challenge of human activity and conservation but uh we we as folks who work in this field do a lot of work on conservation and river corridor protection feel that this could be this would be done with good best practices on construction to uh significantly limit negative impacts to the wildlife okay thank you for your response thank you miss um annette lewis as well uh met any comments or questions yes annette lewis clip it hill road um i have um combination of comments and questions i was wondering um i believe that the eastern portion which uh goes into a point is not on this and you are um you're not dealing with that at all you're leaving it we're leaving it in a natural state okay why is it that you have the bus parking and dpw materials handling center on the east rather than on the west and flipping your two rectangular areas there's not enough width on the site as you see i got it for the field yes thank you good question good question that makes it makes good sense but it's not wide enough okay um the planted slope i'm assuming that that is outside the area and removed by a number of feet from the area where waste was deposited that's right and it would be a good question it's on top of the capped landfill so dp is happy to have even more uh clean fill put on top right except that if you're putting in trees the roots that's another good question the trees that the now this the trees that will select will have to be um shallow roots will have yes and trees tend to the roots of trees tend to stay pretty shallow uh much people think that they they go very far down but they'll they tend to stay more more go horizontally than and but we'll have to pick that's a good question we want to it's going to be a mix too it wouldn't just be trees it would be um shrubs and and grasses and things so and with regard to irrigation is that something that dep would be okay with yes because the entire field is going to be on new fill so the whole irrigation system we will be above the capped capped area yeah thank you um can somebody say how many people are online watching this there are 14 attendees and 10 panels 14 attendees and what was the last 10 panels 10 panels people who are attending the meetings oh i'm sorry thank you so um i appreciate the work that you've done i think you've done a very nice job thank you thank you miss lewis thank you um miss plum welcome hi uh good evening carol plum bald rock road uh i have just a couple of short ones which is did you ever find out what the depth of the trash was on the different ends yes but i don't have that information now and but we can provide that to you it's certainly deeper on the hot to the west um they put up and it's as the site goes the height of the site descends to the east it it's less deep um so but i don't think we don't have unfortunately our weston and sampson engineering partner can't be here tonight and they could they have that they've been doing some borings and things of that nature but that is pretty deep yeah some other thoughts on the question yeah it's my recollection order of magnitude that the depth of the waste on the eastern portion was within a few feet and uh the depth within the westerly portion was uh it exceeded in some areas 15 feet wow okay um my other question is are you planning any thoughts towards operation and maintenance on that field like are you going to use integrated pest management considering you're going to be sitting around with all sorts of what other people call weeds blowing over in that direction the a maintenance plan would be put together and um we would our main you know we would work with the town the town's very the officials we're dealing with are very much on board with you know that this site is next to a wildlife refuge area and they're going to want to make sure that it's a complementary to the it's it's it's um to that wildlife area so we haven't put a maintenance plan together yet but one would be required and we would and to do it and okay so so there will likely be some sort of integrated pest management and fertilizer control kind of thing yes good good yep okay my other thought was just it is a landfill and the more you irrigate it i guess more than natural rainwater are we going to actually check to see what we might actually be washing in to the uh wash marsh these are these are going to be the kinds of um those will all be taken in consideration and the conservation commission i'm sure will care a lot about it and we're going to care a lot about it too to capture as much of that run off and have it settle down and be treated in a way that uh it's not going to be adding new nutrients and causing eutrophication in the river and you know we're going to care about all that i mean some of it but it's going to be you know you can we're going to do everything to limit that my other thought just was is there going to be any way i mean it's a dual thought one is can you get a kayak or a boat ramp or somehow we didn't get that in and if you've got water it's going to attract kids right they like to run down there is there any thought about how you're going to keep people from actually ending up in that gully between the parcel and the rail trail where it fills with water we have we that's going to be in conversation with dcr when they develop that rail trail um with the town to work that out for sure because so you feel like this piece these parcels don't actually hit the part in the gully where the water fills in between that and the tracks no i didn't say that um i i i think that that's a you're you're asking a question about a level of detail that we haven't at this conceptual level haven't addressed yet that's the kind of a kind of um design um focus that gets taken up in what's called design development when you say okay this is generally where we want to have this these are the components in the program for the site now how do we make it work and that's when we're working and the engineers are working and looking at the kinds of things you're talking about right now but okay and any question you could stick another overlook on the other on the eastern side so that you're looking out towards the sudbury river in terms of birding and other wildlife stuff sure and our original plans had a bird observation wooden lookout tower there but the problem is that now that the site because we had imagined um public access um other than the trail coming through there um but an actual way to bring parking in for the public but because of not wanting to have parking um access to where it there's a conflict bringing in cars to where the dpw activities will be and uh because that's for safety reasons so we really don't have any parking on that eastern side so if we put some kind of some kind of wildlife observation um look out then we're worried again about it being isolated and out of a view of a lot of people's uh eyes eyes and might become a place for a hangout for people um so we did we we did not we've taken that out um so really the the but we could potentially it was up i mean we could put some benches informally and into uh the eastern edge of the what we call the flexible outdoor space so that people who are in that area could sit and enjoy and they'll still be up above to look out and have another point of but not on that eastern edge we we right at least not right now uh we can we see that working and being a safe and meeting safety goals even if people were to walk over in that direction and you're just well when when dcr does goes and puts that trail in they you know but i i'm not even sure you want i mean that's these are questions down the line i mean to have that many people then having access to a place where they can get up into some kind of structure that's not monitored uh so i would take that more seriously i hadn't had to sit through the um the local recreation and conservation thing about everybody not being worried about people being able to get up there when there's no security but i'll take it as is and wait and see what happens so thank you for your answers i appreciate it good night this follow one one comment um in our communication from dcr they did indicate that they plan to put um outcropping from the rail trail and that's done in the next couple of years so that people can sit on a bench and enjoy that view so it won't be a they don't plan to put a um noble expand but it'll be an overwork area that they plan to construct that and i'll be there okay good thank you mrs bong yep thank you i'm mrs ottman welcome hi can you hear me yes we can yes hi everyone um i actually uh live on moore road and i'm on the conservation commission together with cliff how you doing thank you this looks great and i can appreciate all the complexities with this being on a former landfill site and so close to the river um and i actually had some similar questions that both Annette and Carol brought up but since you mentioned it Ed with the we'd have to look at like a stormwater management system right for that parking lot on the east side and if that proves to be too cost prohibitive or it might be something that has to go through the conservation commission and it gets too complicated is there another alternative and it's kind of a two-part question to have this parking area in another part of town and is there another alternative here for this site if for some reason that's cost prohibitive that's a really good question and I think we were the feeling is that until we get those numbers we're we're going to show what would meet what we've identified in our understanding of what our high priority community needs to try and make this work we did give up on the housing but the the bus parking and the this DPW facility were deemed to be valuable to the beneficial to the town so we're so let's see if we can we're going to do our best to make it work and make it work economically and then certainly environmentally because we we can't have that runoff going into the into the wetlands and into the river and just to clarify is the 100 foot buffer um the line with the two dotted lines it says planted slope but I didn't know if that was the same as the buffer yeah no no that's we're going to plant that area in there um but that's the dotted line is the 100 foot buffer there got it so so everything we're proposing the parking area is all outside of that yes just outside of it yep okay well as you see we it is we have to drive yeah we'd have to work through and and where this where this path comes down right in here we have that's to be worked out where if we have to do a little bit of fill and if the conservation committee commission is going to require some some competent compensatory wetland storage for those these two areas we'll have to work that out but um hopefully we can do that okay thank you
members of the public and i'm not going to close the forum just now but at this time any members of the public have questions or comments that haven't had a chance to speak you know when i turn out of the committee members and uh iver let me start with you questions or comments uh red actually my question was was answered um during the course of this conversation so thank you sure um any questions or comments in your part um i think most of my questions are answered uh i think one of the ones i had was in terms of i know we're still in like conceptual stage but thinking about future and budgeting erosion control for those slope areas is that what we're thinking the planning of the trees is essentially doing yeah yes that that's going to help for sure um and um we're you know the engineers feel that um these are one foot contours so it looks steeper than it is even um but um but but we the slopes are such that we feel that um with that they'll that the erosion will be um uh will be will be minimum and and and certainly by planting it will will help maintain those slopes for sure gotcha and um in terms of keeping in the whole river shed view um in light that we have restrictions on lighting for the fields what are our options in those cases we're not recommending that that they be lit that this field be lit um i think um i think basically the other questions were i didn't have any other questions or they were answered um the concerns for obviously housing and removal of waste we don't have any of those concerns if we're still putting fields out there because they're going to be capped under concrete or and then the the cap the cap that is currently there these activities will all take place on top of that cap by adding where the field is in the parking area more fill and then the parking area can be put on a cap designed properly where the um middle field is we're flexible outdoor that's all on additional fill so you're not interfering with the cap um and and then where the bus parking materials handling that would be bringing a certain amount of new fill in and then this the the impervious surface won't allow that won't interfere with the cap that's a separate that'll keep it that'll protect the cap in fact act like an umbrella over the cap um but again we have to capture that runoff and then uh treat it right just like on the eastern side with the um dbw material center we need that's right that's what i'm saying that's right okay um i think those are all the questions for now thank you though those that the plan makes sense it's nice to have a visual lead thank you erin any questions or comments i don't think i have any additional comments or questions as it relates to the plan i think this is great incorporates as much as we possibly kind of can um actually as i'm saying i don't have any questions um carol plum mentioned the kayak like boat spot and i remember we discussed that can somebody just refresh my memory on why we didn't engage with that piece was it the um
like the steepness or i i can't remember i think it has to do with the location erin okay you have to travel quite a bit on the eastern end yes get to it yeah i think the best spot and we'll talk about it for years for um an area put in area is where the on the east on the east side of the river closer closer to the coac so that area i think if you're going to build something just uh i think that would be more of a better right access there's access there now some people feel that's efficient and they may be right but i think you're going to build something that be just more ideal that's right thank you tom sure mike stallman any comments questions um yeah uh thank you edna great uh great presentation and great uh great work on this so far um the runoff water from the parking areas that's going to get treated and then it's going to go and is it going to go out into some existing uh piping that's out underneath through 20 under boston post road good question the the there are two different uh areas that they'll be where there's parking and two different solutions the the dp the more challenging one is the one um where the to the east and that's going to be detained the the stormwater does a system will have to be designed to detain it and then to treat it and then if you ask me what does that entail um i i'm sorry that my engineering partner is not here to tell you what that means but that is the the process in which and um those are the steps that are undertaken i don't know the engineering of that but it's not pumped out into it's on-site detention and treatment um what so that will provide more information on the details of that when some a representative from weston and sampson can um can do that so and as for the the western parking lot that we that will be will we believe that with talking with weston and sampson and our landscape architects that with the additional fill fill there and the the size of that that we can can um have that water run off into into the site into the clean fill and so on so that and into the even to the top two feet of the that's above the landfill and have it permeate down in a in an on-site with any without having just special treatment beyond that okay fair enough thank you uh tom hold any thoughts on next question yes we're talking about this i'm thinking of it would be likely uh similar to what we have at the coa the community center um you know that's a pretty sizable parking lot and stormwater management was a big part of that project and they have subsurface uh collectors they've got a biofilter system they've got a dozen of these biofilters that are actually canisters that are located below ground that actually treat the water before it's discharged into the ground it's a similar proximity to the river as this project these parcels are so there are a number of best management practices that can be implemented uh to manage stormwater i'm just thinking of you know something that was so recent just a couple of years ago that was installed and um both the facilities and public works department um collaborated in in managing um that that project thank you um um mark norton i'm not sure you're with us um i see you say any questions or comments uh thank you tom i did have the opportunity to join on the run here um but uh no appreciate the thoughtful um approach incorporating as much as you could uh most of my questions were answered so looking forward to continuing the work uh just a couple comments uh first i'd like to thank you tom and the other tom and ed for doing this work it it's very very well done it's a shame we couldn't get the housing in but we did beat that up as much as we could and that's just not going to work right i do like the flexible space in the middle uh you know the field and the materials handling and the buses are going to be there a long time uh long after we're gone uh and having a flexible space there to meet the needs of the future people so they can decide what they want to do there is a nice idea and it'll be good access so no i think i think it's a good idea it's a good use of the land it should be a nice facility when we're done thank you i don't have any questions either uh that you care but uh as others have expressed we really appreciate your professional work here and your innovative ideas your experience and this evidence and what you've produced your advice to our committee has been invaluable looking at what you put forward looking at our 17 uses you know this is better than i do ed but more of a concern about space like this being too busy and i don't think the presentation we've given tonight suggests you have space in the middle which is the town's flexibility if they wanted to put one or two more items on there whether it be an imp theater or a yard park something like that but as you present it i think it um it works well and really appreciate it yeah i think that middle space helps um you know you know you know there's we've seen people use these kinds of spaces for to fly kites and you know just just a lot of just kind of picnic sit outside and have a nice picnic there and so on so um and a nice break between between the dpw and the bus facility over there and then and then the soccer field as well so it we were a little concerned that we were squeezing too many things in here i think a really nice asset and uh one of the nice that trailhead for the folks to come and because if the state dcr helps pay for the parking field um to the part of the cost for the parking field and i would think that they would help pay for the path to to descend down to the to the trip to the trail that's the kind of projects they help fund trailheads that this will be a lovely amenity in itself for people to come and drive but people from oxbow all to oxbow to walk across the street with a proper grade crossing that'll be a nice amenity for that those members of your community to come across here get on the path and walk down to the river um but um so that that's that's a real that that's a terrific facility um and then the athletic field certainly there's a need for that um so yeah i don't i we were a little concerned that it was getting too busy but i think it it's it's it's we're getting to some kind of nice balance to it the details to be worked out in in in the next phase as and um so on well jennifer steel you have a question or comment yes thanks can you hear me yes we can yeah thanks yeah um actually ed you brought it up um just at the last minute there i was going to ask specifically about a podesta safe pedestrian crossing for specifically for alta oxbow residents i didn't see it in the plan here to know exactly where their access drive is or where it might make the most sense but i know that it's hard to get um signaled crossings on state routes and is has that have those conversations been held no but i would think that you know that that that they're going to have to happen because uh you know you have this you have 20 comes through the town so you've found ways to make safe crossings across 20 um but then we'll have to work that out with mass you know mass highway so but they're going to want to cross and so you want to make sure that it's done in a safe clear way right though currently there's not sidewalk on the south side of route 20 is there no no right so so the location so either anyway this this plan would would need to anticipate and incorporate access from a crossing point up to the entry an appropriate entry point whether that's the drive into the parking lot or a separate entry point for pedestrians and the grading is going to make that challenging and hopefully the folks the management over owners and owners and managers over at alta oxbow would be be willing to participate be partners in that yeah yeah well it's certainly a good conversation to start early knowing knowing how quickly mass mass dot moves
anything else done pretty good no thank you thank you thank you any other members of the public have questions or comments including none go uh close the public phone and once again thank you for your time this evening i didn't offer a talent folder i don't think the opportunity for asking questions or comments but uh do so now no i thought ed did a really nice job of providing an overview a lot of uh a lot of work went into this between the collaborative western and sampson the committee members uh public works staff so i think it's uh it's a nice vision and i think uh the group should be proud of it thanks tom so ed it's been a pleasure working with the town by the way um we've enjoyed it we're a very good town very you know they understand you know this is not easy to to do but it's going to be a i think it's going to be a an asset to the community thank you for kind words that you're welcome to stay with us but uh i'll head out i think you might be better i prefer it head out but thank you for your time thank you thank you ed so well if you can not permit ed to share a screen so we can move on the regular screen would be ideal
um so next item on our agenda is to consider the draft report that is in the packet i welcome comments and questions macro but what i was going to do then is to bring up the report on the screen and kind of go through each of the um potential users and and we make some hard decisions on what what we want to actually keep them up for example we may want to have a list of items that might reflect what they want to consider for that common area on the middle area um that's just one one but let me open it up um any any macro comments or questions on the report i have a question tom isn't at any point has and i just can't remember um at any point has a select board received any written documentation prior to this from this group kind of like recapping the different phases that this committee's kind of gone through or is this going to be the first and kind of last okay yeah i mean all the minutes are visible um uh online but uh this will be the first and last okay i read any questions or comments on the report mac macro field not at the moment thank you how about you um um um no comments except uh question our next phase of the one he's talking about more details and design is that what we're expecting next and so this would be what he what he proposes is um what he called programmatic design and this is what we would present this like and then um select board would digest it and decide what next steps it wants to take could be a number of steps and then at this phase we have not confirmed the use for solar right or the introduction of the solar panels and this design so this will not be what goes forward to that other committee that's correct and for example that doesn't mean we don't mention solar in the report and um i think you heard a comment about the challenge of putting a canopy solar over there maybe not possible but i would have concerning any other solar panels it might that we see at the landfill and sundry this looks much longer i'm not sure the height within that but um sure um and then i guess the other question is will this report need to include any of those calculations for stormwater runoff or is that just now uh like a lump thing that we're going to say that we have to do yeah that would that would be the design was consumed that detail would be in that okay and other than that i think the plan that they suggested seems fairly non-invasive and inclusive of what most of people want it so yeah mike spellman any macro comments no nothing further uh everything was really covered very well tonight and um you know it was conceptual start so it looks like we've got a great start to it you can just start filling in the details and then i'll have more to comment on them i'm sure but as of now nothing all right so once our report which i don't think we'll vote tonight on that one more maybe but once the report goes for the bill i can say digest them inside um do we in this report uh do we need to include any more of a where we're expecting budget for our conversation yeah so i'm going to aim to include budget numbers in the report i'm going to push ed and lesson samson to get me those prior to the next meeting so i think it would be helpful and frankly it's not important to give a ballpark at least not based on when people kind of you know people can appreciate those people with the public uh many members who are have to say okay um mark any questions on the report macro one yeah from a macro perspective i think they did a really nice job of addressing you know our thoughts and requests and uh providing flexibility to the town i thought was really nicely done so um nothing further here but any thoughts uh just just the ballpark uh cost estimate i think is is important to include and you've already got that the rest of it looks pretty good to me you're going to include some of uh ed's drawings i assume in this report yes yeah i will yeah i'll forget so um bring up now um portion of the portion of the portion of the report starting in section four was about really that it received on the screen again again it clears the draft report
so i think what i'd like to do is um does everyone have the report uh with them on my computer or i can pull it up if you want me to i have it tight like printed as well with me do you want me to pull it up actually i think i might i think i may maybe want you can get it on the town website that's a good point okay here we go see it yep all right so what i'd like to do is go through these options and see whether we want to delete any or possibly create a portion of the report where we mention them but that's kind of options so anyway past recreation open space my sense is that we would keep that that there number number two solar and so um yes sorry what are your thoughts on pulling this out um as something that could kind of be overlaid with other uses for an option one both one and two um so um expanding is on your thoughts um past recreation i see it's more like the the walkways and maybe the area between bus parking and and the trail the trailhead and the field yep oh and the field and the lower part right um that i see is kind of a past recreation open space but but uh you're thinking is to kind of well go ahead um elaborate on the thoughts i'm i'm just thinking of um
these just strike me as things that can be woven into a number of yeah options so they're almost like evergreen options that can be you know regardless of the other kind of options that can be actually fit and are are true options at the site based on benefits challenges and kind of final assessment um they're viable to the extent that um they can they can almost be like not an afterthought but also an afterthought if that makes sense um so if you're thinking erin to um have the report focus primarily on the active recreation naming the field bus parking lay down area then go from there that you're thinking yeah okay yeah i think we spent a lot of time um arriving at narrowing down what was legitimately an opportunity to put at this site yeah okay okay all right good i can do that i can do it now and then so therefore your solo would be um in in the more attention right um this would be your your active and i would main main main main recommendation right yeah sorry do we need to clarify the lighting aspect here's you know i was just gonna say we have to strike that i'll let it i'll take that out yeah in fact what what i think i'll do we'll say without money and uh i love lighting there for any reasons but i remember a comment you made came up early on in our meetings about uh rare flight and to the extent that any cold could do that that might be specific um moving on for this these would this would be a combination this would be a combination um kind of macro consideration maybe an amphitheater possibility even like maybe but the natural based style elements could be again part of the big picture
parking i would consider more part of the field yeah you all agree the other thing is um i'm wondering also tom if maybe presenting um as part of this section for the evaluation of potential use options kind of laying out a lot of these have similar challenges maybe we lay out um a bucket of sort of
why x y or z isn't where we landed kind of at the outset i know that you have the the spot on the housing yep and i think you could build on that and tie in how um um
uh for example a dog park right right right right what else would we food in that do you think
i mean um the amphitheater i think is
it's yeah i mean it's pretty tough i think but that right
especially because any real structural nothing can nothing really structural can be put here right right so so many options are limited because of that yeah even the reference to the bathrooms right they need to be porta potties for yeah okay yeah um right let me do that a little bit parking we can include in field sessions um parking and i think the other thing to tie into the parking would be um highlighting the potential to tie into the dcr financial support okay um both the parking and kind of the natural elements um that was a piece that ed kind of highlighted that may be i think that's helpful to call out too right also is the parking number capped at 82 is that what he is rethinking 82 is a maximum number of parking spots as per the design mine skin yep yes that was my guess
now um we'll mention the uh electric vehicle charging but it can get expensive for installation but we'll mention it uh yes you might you might want to point out on the on the electrification that the basic electric service that you need is right there on the street okay the three-phase power that you need so any other place where you put that in town you're going to need a whole lot more infrastructure than what you're going to need there which is not to say that you won't need a lot of infrastructure in the first place but if you wanted to put in you know a charging station for one or two buses that wouldn't be too hard to do there and uh can you explain to me is it coming off of poles or is there a line and there there are poles there there's a you know in order to get a lot of like you need a lot of electricity to charge a bus in order to get a lot of electricity you need what's called three-phase power you know you don't have three-phase power to your house and neither do i because we don't need a lot of power but you need a lot and three-phase power is the main uh power lines that distribute power it's it's not the stuff in the on the high tension line that's typically 110 000 volts the three-phase power is typically 5 000 volts uh and and that's what you need going into your house and mine you have 220 volts so it's hard to electrocute yourself or at least it's harder um right so item seven will include in our discussion in the other comments um eight would be one of the main the three main recommendations um nine will be part of one of the macro macro sections 10 10 will mention as an option for the town but but um obviously it won't be part of the report plan um so um so i will rework this report based on comments and other comments people have
i just have a question on and i think we should just be prepared potentially for um some pushback related to option eight um just based on the build out of the the new dpw facility in recent years that's still being paid for um so i just think we should be prepared to kind of address that as a why here um so you might you might want to check with uh tom holder and and put in the cost benefit there his estimate of how much he's spending now to not have that space right and you might also mention that this lifeboard did promise a space like that before oxbow went in yeah i think that's in the work um but i um i understand what you're saying not to say we shouldn't do it i'm sure this is you know it makes sense i just think we should yeah i mean ultimately the reflect board makes recommendations and i think the conversation would be more we will focus on this site once uh it's like the world besides we we will pursue but our job is to make recommendations and in part based on town news and i think i think the biggest thing that in the rework of this tom yeah and i'm happy to help you um as much or as little as you'd like um but i think if we streamline these options and really present it like we've like we have truly worked this as much as it's been worked the the better viability it has for being picked up and and carried all right other comments or questions on the report uh we'll be including the drawings from shoe care in this yes i will okay we'll do that all right so is your plan to tidy this up and then have us vote on it next meeting yeah so what i'll do is i'll i'll rework the report and we'll send it out and pack it and i'll be in touch um soon maybe there's always tonight with emails on meeting dates and let's try to meet one more time and we can work through this and then um even if there are the treats to be made you can
do we have a meeting schedule a week from tonight do we not yeah i thought we did too yeah oh we do yeah we do yeah yeah we do oh yeah i actually have that in my oh no yeah yeah what is that does that work for you aaron i don't know 24th
i was more organized than i thought yeah no actually i have it in my calendar too
does that work for you mike um it does not uh tom holder and i both have a board of public works meeting next week at this time section um what if we what if we did it at five that cut is that the type of people do you dislike me that much tom well why even ask the question
um and oh mark how about you is that does five work on the 24th sorry i'm uh i had to get unmuted there it doesn't it does work it does i'm sure it does uh affirmative yes sir that's right and erin how about you i can do that how about you it zoom right sorry no no okay yeah uh five on 24th yeah how many possibilities i can jam that in okay that's just a few yeah i can make that all right i'll uh another confirmation email then uh post that and we'll make and plan on that and the objective of that meeting is to polish off this report and if you're so inclined um and commit the chair
to include your comments and divisions for submission for selected that will be our last one do we do we do we have a copy of the slide deck that um ed presented tonight i'm going to ask you what i'm going to ask him if he has no objection i'll send it to him i'll put it in the back okay great it's not i might even be able to send it something anything further before we adjourn um yeah i just have one more thing apparently um uh some things come up where apparently this may relate more with the tom holder uh there was some digging or intrusion into some mbta while we're doing uh mbta property i think it's over on the eastern side while the new western samson we're doing the new testing or test drills and uh maybe an issue with where we have encroached on mbta property and done destruction to some of the natural heritage land over there and i was given a heads up from conservation that they may be we may have to account for restoration of that area too not sure how that works into our budget but or what's happening there but it may affect our overall budget and what our next steps are in terms of doing anything with that property there so it would be my sense uh that i and i do understand what you're describing is that uh yes we did go beyond the town's property line uh when removing some of the vegetation the cap does extend into dcr property so it's my sense when we're working with dcr working with mass dep and we're actually helping the dcr out by performing this work for them they would much rather have us do it than them do it uh so i i don't envision this being a problem okay all right
all right okay any other questions or comments having none um i invite uh motion to adjourn so moved second second by trick uh that was a favor of motion but yes i am yes erin yes yep mike yes mark yes have a nothing vote uh thank you all for attending tonight and
our agenda will include public comments and review of our minutes from summer 22nd 2025 and a central vote to approve we'll then hold a public forum which will include a presentation by head shoe care of the collaborative we'll invite questions from those who have any comments comments from the public as well as committee members after that our committee will discuss our work including draft and the report to be submitted to the select board concerning our recommendations um after that we will adjourn so at this time anybody who has public comments comment to raise their hand and happy to hear them out although again if you're here for the public forum we have to just wait until that forum begins with the interesting ones and we'll hear from you with that when you're here for the public or anyone online like make public comments don't seem bad they're hand raised okay we will close the comment the public comment period in the review minutes in our packet on summer 22nd 2025 entertain a motion to approve those minutes um so moved moved yeah all right that that was mike yeah i think anyone second second thank you discussion on the motion hearing none i was in favor of the motion cliff do you have to do roll call tom because we're virtual in favor for the vote yes correct so i'm i just said uh anyone so i asked cliff whether he's oh i'm sorry oh i'm sorry yeah cliff yes um ira uh here aaron yes uh mike yes yes great and that's a six nothing vote appreciate that um we'll now um move on to the public forum and open a public forum and we welcome um holder and i'd ask robbie to move ed shu care over to the main meeting
what what name did you say uh there's a gentleman ed shu care okay and the collaborative who you could move over to the main meeting and move over to the main meeting as a participant you said at at shakir
yes i don't i don't i don't i don't see the name right i don't see him there at all right now i don't see him i'm looking well i'm here um it may show up as the collaborative there you go actually it shows up as me yeah not nearly as good looking though as the other
i'm not sure if that was meant for you or me but both of you can take and um you want me to get started if you could change your name that would be great and then i can do that while you're doing that i'm going to um okay now which tom faye do i change so if you go to and right click you should be able to change it right click down there to be able to change under participants sir uh no um robbie are you able to change uh ed's name i can change him s-h-o-u-c-a-i-n thanks thank you so by way of background relative to this committee uh it was created in 2020 to assist the select board with studying disposition and use town-owned land referred to as the south landfill parcel located on route 20 across from all the oxbow and the transfer facility the size is about 17 acres i'm going to uh attempt to play a uh drone video i like chat just to um
this drone video um depicts the area so again it's about 17 acres in size the acreage of the former landfill was capped and closed on the oversight of now called massachusetts department of environment protection committee originally supplies of eight members including members that's again by the following town board and committee conservation commission economic development committee recreation commission planning board board of public works and school community down the committee has seven members this time as the edc the economic development committee do not replace any gentleman who recently had been launched in the committee our term ends on february 27 2006. our charge includes recommending to the select board the best use of the timeline one of our key tasks was to hire two consultants in part of our effort they would study the problem one consultant called the collaborative which is the national public policy planning design and communications from ian weston samson engineering service and to care is here tonight to chat about his work to date and his recommendations they'll bring items up on the screen so people can further appreciate his thoughts our committee has met several times in the past five years i'd like to thank tom holder for attending every meeting tom's knowledge of a site and development of a site like this is invaluable and we really appreciate his commitment to committee and our um so again we've met several times in the past five years we've given serious thought to the select board's charge but tonight's public forum will bring a presentation by the collaborators as you can followed by comments and questions by members of the public and committee members i'd like to thank educare for his commitment to the site and and his expertise and at this time i'll stop the screen chair invite ed to take from here and talk about his thoughts on the problem sure let me share my screen thank you tom so just the my presentations organized by just talk a little bit about the site a little bit about our doing a community needs assessment and then recommendations and then we'll present a site layout and then have some discussion and not not everybody knows you can you give a couple sentences on your background oh sure my name is ed show care i'm one of the principles of a the collaborative urban planning design firm um based in boston with um going with well over 35 years in business we've got offices in boston atlanta philadelphia and in palo alto um i'm an mit trained urban planner and uh site planning is a specialty of mine but we did we worked our this was a project with a number of my firm's uh professionals landscape architects and others architects at one point um have been working on this and we've been working hand in glove with weston and sampson uh engineering firm terrific engineering firm uh on the project so uh the site as tom pointed out is about 17 acres um east is to um is the the narrowest part of the site west is the widest part of the site the area known as parcels divide into two uh parcels of land parcel one is the largest um it's made up of the former landfill uh in the lighter colors and in the grayish color that's about four and a half acres of wetlands um the parcel two um and and and and and it's that whitish colored part that was actively uses as as a landfill um by the town and our parcel two just shy of six acres uh was um is was was operated um toward as a uh a gravel was taken out of that uh part of the site and it wasn't actively used as a landfill but when the the state required it to be closed and capped um the landfill uh plan was to take some of the material a good amount of the material from the active landfill and put it into that cavity created by the gravel being removed so it now while it wasn't a landfill as an actively operated one it contains landfill material so the entire area has been capped by standards that were when the landfill was capped um it's got a couple feet of uh soil on top um and there the city the town is working with the ep to um make sure that the cap is still in in in uh in we there's amid some site investigations to make sure that the cap is still holding up and it and it is um and uh so that's the history of it the site is next to the great marsh as you all know great marsh national wildlife refuge um the state is going to tcr department of conservation and recreation has been hoping to put a multi-use trail shared path for along that old rail line there uh the oxbow out the oxbow is across the way and we're up but you know walk up against the sudbury line um this when we started the the committee had been meeting for some period of time and uh and try the and identified 17 possible uses for the 17 acres and we just organized i organized those by low impact lower impact of higher impact higher impact housing commercial and what was identified by the committee as a town gateway i guess that was more of a mixed use kind of development um and lower impact conservation area for birding and general natural conservation uh vegetation of borders for whatever went on the site that was a desire uh there was a desire to do design whatever was there with nature fields and by that was explained to us a sports fields uh a trail head for that future uh trail that the dcr tends to build a river access area an amphitheater a dog park uh a dpw materials handling area which highway materials recycling center was identified at the time um parking uh shared parking was one of the uh uses identified school bus parking restrooms solar generation uh wastewater leaching fields so these are what we were given at the beginning of our work as as the committee identified as possible uh uses of the land reuses for the land we continued we started with that and then we went out and did interviews we talked with weston and samson samson to get more background on the uh challenge of building on a landfill um or doing anything on a landfill not just building but uh making use of landfill talked with tom faye the chair others certainly tom holder the wayland public schools the recreation department the housing authority the economic development committee and others in the community um we did a little we did some research on what was going on in the town as urban planners you know what what are the future needs of the community um and uh some other uh research and our general findings that um early on was that the highest priority needs were for housing you know especially starter homes um there was a lack of starter homes in the community you all know this that came through uh there was a need with 35 of the population over 55 for homes for old older residents um as well as supported housing for youth with disabilities um that was identified uh as a priority and then certainly uh at the nbta's housing requirements was on the back came out and it was uh was uh certainly a parameter that we took into consideration so those we identified early on as uh as the high priority needs and and and let me just stop there well and the secondary ones were recreation especially in a playing field for soccer lacrosse some informal playing with and and then a third one that out of that list came out was the materials handling for the dpw um and and then bus parking those were that and then others just the didn't make it up as quite as high as these and so for a time we really looked at the possibility of putting housing on the site and spent a good amount of time a lot of creative energy working with uh less than samson the town and then with dep a mass department of environmental protection who's to see if it was possible because in some states um building homes on landfills are it's permitted um it's not regulatorily not permitted um but it would dep made it clear to us that for them to be comfortable with it they would uh with housing they they would want the material underneath the area where the housing would go to be taken away and disposed of at another landfill facility outside and the cost of that was do we turned out to be prohibitive prohibitive we had looked like i said as at some of the techniques used it and allowed in other states to build on top by putting an impervious layer between the landfill material and and and housing above but that the ep made it clear to us that that wasn't gonna be acceptable to them so because of cost we dropped that and then we looked then to the secondary and third priorities that came out of in our research and of those you know the certainly the conservation was high priority especially on the edges and and that for four and a half acres to the east our plan includes a one major uh field a soccer field is and then an informal playing field that trail head because for future use uh public access to the trail uh highway materials recycling and school bus parking those are the ones that we've then brought into a site plan that we'll show you here and um so to the i'll start with the western side of the site you see access from route two for to a parking lot that would serve an athletic field that would be 300 feet by 150 feet uh which is a high school regular regulation size uh field with an apron around it of about 30 feet on either side and then about 45 feet on the ends um the field would have a certain amount of fencing we want to keep to keep the balls from rolling off and we um there's parking for as many as 82 parking spots so more you know certainly enough to on a busy and and this field could be used as a lot of as we know in a lot of communities you know for you eights and seven and so on you can break the fields up into smaller areas for different couple games to be taking place at the same time or it could be used for one larger single field game um at these there's parking sufficient to uh to accommodate that use as well as we we put a parking there also for people to come and um even when there is a game um to park there and then make use of a trip of a path that that would lead down and this is ada um of five meets ada requirements for accessibility it's below five percent or less grade down to the future trail here um at the top along the field we have an overlook so people can um we would imagine some benches there for people to sit out and look out and look and enjoy with binoculars if they want to do some observing of birds and other wildlife um the path would swing around the edge of the field and come down to this middle area of a flexible outdoor space it's just a large field um that could serve a lot of informal play um and so on kite flying and those kinds of things a very flexible space um to make this work there's new clean fill would be brought in as and and this is quite common um to be done to take old landfills and use them for fields and i'll show you these images here these are of a of an old landfill that's been turned into playing field soccer fields in boston in west roxbury um you see the tops of the fields here have been leveled off with clean fill brought in um you see how the height the fields are up there and then there's paths that come down um from there to around the site into other locations so it's quite common um to do this in the state um and clean fills is nowhere is nowhere near as expensive of uh as as as you know it's it's not a not it's not too expensive of a of um to to create these kinds of fields um the uh the to the east we're showing um uh an area for bus parking to so the buses from down from downtown could from your town center could be brought out here plus parking for the bus drivers when they um when they're out driving as well as an area first for dpw to have material handling here and the access would be here from route 20 and then we're within all of the wetland um buffers set 100 foot uh the 100 foot wetland setback here within the we're within the we're outside of the um uh the the the flood zone um and uh and we have planted we're managing planted slopes here uh to for to promote wildlife uh as well as to provide some some uh shading of especially when we put some planted slope here of of the bark the bus parking area here and the dpw uh activities here um so we that will be planted as well and around and around the edges but that's at a scale where concept design or or uh and that that that those things get worked out as as the town will move into uh design and development so um with that does anyone have any open it up to questions right now yeah i'll um ask that the public be invited to comment or ask questions and then once we finish that base then members of the committee can do you want to say something no no sure tom so you want me to continue oh uh you continue with your presentation and then and then we'll invite comments i'm really and we can come back to this um i'll just i'm moving into the summary phase so of those 17 uses we were we've you know shown the the birding the vegetation um the a field a major field with an informal field the trailhead for the to make use of the future multi-use trail the highway materials and the school bus parking and i do let me go back i should point out what um one of we do do not have um have not done a pricing exercise for this yet we have we've been working hard on it and but we haven't yet come up with a cost estimates one of the reasons is we we have to do further research into what is going to be required to capture the storm runoff from this large hard surface impervious surface area where the park buses will be parked and the materials will be stored that's sloped down we're going to the storm runoff water would be captured and detained and and it would then be treated on site that's a that's a common technique but we haven't priced that out yet um that's not going to be cheap and what does that mean we'll let you know when within the next within the next two weeks we'll have that answer for you for that as well as a much better ballpark estimate for the entire um project um so um that that that's those that's where we are in costs um with that i just open it up to discussion so this time i invite members of the public who have questions and comments to just indicate with your hand raise and i'll acknowledge you and then we can ask you a question and thank you kind of um tom siaka you could yeah yeah uh hi guys um you can hear me i assume yes we can hear you tom okay so uh reading the um packet material uh i had a couple of concern with well let me say uh number one i um i see uh several positive elements in again what was in the back of material the school bus parking is something i've been advocating for a long time um particularly with charging capability again it's not it's not something that we need today but we will need eventually and we need to plan for the future um not just current needs and um i um also was was happy to see in the packet material uh solar included but i don't see it here i'm tom let me mention i'm sorry this is a site plan i didn't think we're that's something we'll work we're going to look at uh over by the the uh in the area of the uh covering at least we're trying to figure out how to cover that um have it the there are large vehicles trucks buses are pretty tall um as well as the other truck vehicles coming in so it it wouldn't be the easiest thing to do to just canopy over with solar panels which uh we have to look at that and that's that would be in design development it's the town certainly has expressed that desire as well as at least trying to get a charger in for some of the vehicles um but those those items need to be as we further look into uh um the next phase of working the details out of this those are those i'm sorry if i didn't mention that the town has asked us to look at those as well okay so um i'm uh you you ought to know it uh i wear i wear several hats i think the committee members know me but um one of them is i'm the um whalen representative to the wild and scenic river stewardship council uh i'm the river guy and another hat i i wear is i'm a member of the the energy and climate committee good uh so um on the one hand i um would love to see a solar on the site on the other hand uh i can't see anything visible from the river that would compromise its its wild and scenic river character right so um let me point out to everyone the town has already gone through through significant effort to preserve the wild and scenic river view scape with the uh alta oxbow project for example they reduced the height of the buildings so they would be invisible from the river with the um whalen town center project again the the building heights were restricted so the uh trees in in between the project and the river would screen them effectively um so uh i clearly can't say anything very specific here lacking you know a specific proposal but uh you need to take that into account so tom thank you so a little bit back we're we're we're we've got that and we care about that my background was uh when i graduated came out of grad school i started the what's called the massachusetts riverways program which is is that was back in the 80s early 80s which is a state program to protect river help protect river corridors that's still in effect today and so my lens and i i think maybe you know bill geese and tanner one of our um landscape designers he he's done work with the constant way at the wayland conservation commission over the years and i mean we the we're we're landscape architects we care a lot about this you know it's one of the things reasons why we've said to the town you know not only plant the slopes and so on the town has said they want it to but not to put lighting on the field yes absolutely and to be thinking about lighting and caring about that and so yeah and the solar could be problematic from the panels facing south again it would be facing the river corridor it could be problematic with the wildlife and so with reflection and so on so these will be things that we'll look at but have in mind and care about and um so i'll stop there okay excellent um the one other thing i i noticed um again in the packet and you haven't haven't mentioned is the dog park and um dog waste is really toxic stuff you probably know that um so i would i i don't know anything about how you'd you design a dog park but uh i'd be very concerned about again what happens to run off through the dog waste and its its effect on the river and let me mention by the way the river uh although a lot of people have the impression it's polluted the river is really clean you you can swim in the river just fine right now with with the only issue with it is mercury and mercury is not is not in the water mercury is only an issue if you eat the fish right but uh in terms of bacteriological conditions it is really clean and we don't want to screw that up so tom we we as you see there's no formal dog park here um and the town you know we looked at it and uh and there's no and if i would think that if someone is bringing their dogs there um that that should be some educational material to say please you know take whatever litter whatever you bring in take out with you and and that'll just have to be monitored but with in that way but there's right now there's no formal it's an open playing field if people bring their dogs there we hope that you know through the people i'm sure that most residents who have dogs are gonna mine their dogs and so on but um so i think so that dog park the a lot of dogs being here is i i think will not become an issue okay great i think that's all i have to say thank you tom uh other persons who have comments or questions in the public just read your hand yes i do see miss miss podell yes
i have a question if i can slip in here um all right hold on a second you can just get to the how about you and then we'll come to the members yeah okay miss podell good evening hi hope podell seven janitor road um i'll keep it short and i know that this is not necessarily something that we're at
um and one is a question not to be answered necessarily right now is the field that you're talking about if it's uh the the full size or or two versus one is were you talking about or somebody talking about artificial turf as no way but rather grass it would it would we're we're only imagined grass uh with as with uh irrigated grass grass an irrigation system okay that's good um the other thing that i just thought of we don't we have adult children but we have grandchildren is um it i think it was in the black versus the green category i'm not sure that the need particularly for the fields um of restrooms i i couldn't imagine that it was not put as a priority no i think hope you uh you we would and as we go into further development that we'd probably recommend to the town that they have some kind of porta potties here which is common at these kinds of facilities um as a way for people to have you know to as opposed to a structure we can't for us to put a building on this capped landfill would would would um be problematic to dep for to have a structure to go down into the that would just interfere we can have some a couple of in some places some retaining walls that aren't very deep but uh not a building so to to you definitely want to have some some porta potties that are maintained uh-huh okay and the um i don't know where we are i'm not sure that you've completely addressed it but um to have potential housing which you mentioned in the beginning is um one of my beefs has always been the articulation of uh ama or the area median income a portion of it which uh in the town like wayland our area median income is higher than many many communities and it still requires a rent that is to me in my mind astronomical so i don't know if there was any thought at all yet given to the idea of
not not charging i don't know what it is now for the requirement but um below um the well when we housing's off the table uh we looked at it we looked at it including affordable you know more affordable units and so on absolutely that was going to be part of the housing when we looked at it but the cost of doing it as per is so prohibitive that as you see there's there's no housing on the that recommended for this gotcha um just one more and i'm sure there's there are people that are very concerned about the talk of in area one the wetlands and uh in there i think is the great marsh national wildlife and i'm really concerned about not not killing them off while you're doing construction for whatever it is and disturbing them to a point i'm not sure what would be but that's uh my last question that i had that's that's this would be done with within the uh you know let's say birds or especially birds but other animals they they're they can habituate um they can get used to and it wouldn't even have to be for too long but they will be disturbed and they'll move you know away and it's not going to be 24 hours a day they'll know that you know um and we're not in their habitat areas we're on the edge of it um so it is that challenge of human activity and conservation but uh we we as folks who work in this field do a lot of work on conservation and river corridor protection feel that this could be this would be done with good best practices on construction to uh significantly limit negative impacts to the wildlife okay thank you for your response thank you miss um annette lewis as well uh met any comments or questions yes annette lewis clip it hill road um i have um combination of comments and questions i was wondering um i believe that the eastern portion which uh goes into a point is not on this and you are um you're not dealing with that at all you're leaving it we're leaving it in a natural state okay why is it that you have the bus parking and dpw materials handling center on the east rather than on the west and flipping your two rectangular areas there's not enough width on the site as you see i got it for the field yes thank you good question good question that makes it makes good sense but it's not wide enough okay um the planted slope i'm assuming that that is outside the area and removed by a number of feet from the area where waste was deposited that's right and it would be a good question it's on top of the capped landfill so dp is happy to have even more uh clean fill put on top right except that if you're putting in trees the roots that's another good question the trees that the now this the trees that will select will have to be um shallow roots will have yes and trees tend to the roots of trees tend to stay pretty shallow uh much people think that they they go very far down but they'll they tend to stay more more go horizontally than and but we'll have to pick that's a good question we want to it's going to be a mix too it wouldn't just be trees it would be um shrubs and and grasses and things so and with regard to irrigation is that something that dep would be okay with yes because the entire field is going to be on new fill so the whole irrigation system we will be above the capped capped area yeah thank you um can somebody say how many people are online watching this there are 14 attendees and 10 panels 14 attendees and what was the last 10 panels 10 panels people who are attending the meetings oh i'm sorry thank you so um i appreciate the work that you've done i think you've done a very nice job thank you thank you miss lewis thank you um miss plum welcome hi uh good evening carol plum bald rock road uh i have just a couple of short ones which is did you ever find out what the depth of the trash was on the different ends yes but i don't have that information now and but we can provide that to you it's certainly deeper on the hot to the west um they put up and it's as the site goes the height of the site descends to the east it it's less deep um so but i don't think we don't have unfortunately our weston and sampson engineering partner can't be here tonight and they could they have that they've been doing some borings and things of that nature but that is pretty deep yeah some other thoughts on the question yeah it's my recollection order of magnitude that the depth of the waste on the eastern portion was within a few feet and uh the depth within the westerly portion was uh it exceeded in some areas 15 feet wow okay um my other question is are you planning any thoughts towards operation and maintenance on that field like are you going to use integrated pest management considering you're going to be sitting around with all sorts of what other people call weeds blowing over in that direction the a maintenance plan would be put together and um we would our main you know we would work with the town the town's very the officials we're dealing with are very much on board with you know that this site is next to a wildlife refuge area and they're going to want to make sure that it's a complementary to the it's it's it's um to that wildlife area so we haven't put a maintenance plan together yet but one would be required and we would and to do it and okay so so there will likely be some sort of integrated pest management and fertilizer control kind of thing yes good good yep okay my other thought was just it is a landfill and the more you irrigate it i guess more than natural rainwater are we going to actually check to see what we might actually be washing in to the uh wash marsh these are these are going to be the kinds of um those will all be taken in consideration and the conservation commission i'm sure will care a lot about it and we're going to care a lot about it too to capture as much of that run off and have it settle down and be treated in a way that uh it's not going to be adding new nutrients and causing eutrophication in the river and you know we're going to care about all that i mean some of it but it's going to be you know you can we're going to do everything to limit that my other thought just was is there going to be any way i mean it's a dual thought one is can you get a kayak or a boat ramp or somehow we didn't get that in and if you've got water it's going to attract kids right they like to run down there is there any thought about how you're going to keep people from actually ending up in that gully between the parcel and the rail trail where it fills with water we have we that's going to be in conversation with dcr when they develop that rail trail um with the town to work that out for sure because so you feel like this piece these parcels don't actually hit the part in the gully where the water fills in between that and the tracks no i didn't say that um i i i think that that's a you're you're asking a question about a level of detail that we haven't at this conceptual level haven't addressed yet that's the kind of a kind of um design um focus that gets taken up in what's called design development when you say okay this is generally where we want to have this these are the components in the program for the site now how do we make it work and that's when we're working and the engineers are working and looking at the kinds of things you're talking about right now but okay and any question you could stick another overlook on the other on the eastern side so that you're looking out towards the sudbury river in terms of birding and other wildlife stuff sure and our original plans had a bird observation wooden lookout tower there but the problem is that now that the site because we had imagined um public access um other than the trail coming through there um but an actual way to bring parking in for the public but because of not wanting to have parking um access to where it there's a conflict bringing in cars to where the dpw activities will be and uh because that's for safety reasons so we really don't have any parking on that eastern side so if we put some kind of some kind of wildlife observation um look out then we're worried again about it being isolated and out of a view of a lot of people's uh eyes eyes and might become a place for a hangout for people um so we did we we did not we've taken that out um so really the the but we could potentially it was up i mean we could put some benches informally and into uh the eastern edge of the what we call the flexible outdoor space so that people who are in that area could sit and enjoy and they'll still be up above to look out and have another point of but not on that eastern edge we we right at least not right now uh we can we see that working and being a safe and meeting safety goals even if people were to walk over in that direction and you're just well when when dcr does goes and puts that trail in they you know but i i'm not even sure you want i mean that's these are questions down the line i mean to have that many people then having access to a place where they can get up into some kind of structure that's not monitored uh so i would take that more seriously i hadn't had to sit through the um the local recreation and conservation thing about everybody not being worried about people being able to get up there when there's no security but i'll take it as is and wait and see what happens so thank you for your answers i appreciate it good night this follow one one comment um in our communication from dcr they did indicate that they plan to put um outcropping from the rail trail and that's done in the next couple of years so that people can sit on a bench and enjoy that view so it won't be a they don't plan to put a um noble expand but it'll be an overwork area that they plan to construct that and i'll be there okay good thank you mrs bong yep thank you i'm mrs ottman welcome hi can you hear me yes we can yes hi everyone um i actually uh live on moore road and i'm on the conservation commission together with cliff how you doing thank you this looks great and i can appreciate all the complexities with this being on a former landfill site and so close to the river um and i actually had some similar questions that both Annette and Carol brought up but since you mentioned it Ed with the we'd have to look at like a stormwater management system right for that parking lot on the east side and if that proves to be too cost prohibitive or it might be something that has to go through the conservation commission and it gets too complicated is there another alternative and it's kind of a two-part question to have this parking area in another part of town and is there another alternative here for this site if for some reason that's cost prohibitive that's a really good question and I think we were the feeling is that until we get those numbers we're we're going to show what would meet what we've identified in our understanding of what our high priority community needs to try and make this work we did give up on the housing but the the bus parking and the this DPW facility were deemed to be valuable to the beneficial to the town so we're so let's see if we can we're going to do our best to make it work and make it work economically and then certainly environmentally because we we can't have that runoff going into the into the wetlands and into the river and just to clarify is the 100 foot buffer um the line with the two dotted lines it says planted slope but I didn't know if that was the same as the buffer yeah no no that's we're going to plant that area in there um but that's the dotted line is the 100 foot buffer there got it so so everything we're proposing the parking area is all outside of that yes just outside of it yep okay well as you see we it is we have to drive yeah we'd have to work through and and where this where this path comes down right in here we have that's to be worked out where if we have to do a little bit of fill and if the conservation committee commission is going to require some some competent compensatory wetland storage for those these two areas we'll have to work that out but um hopefully we can do that okay thank you
members of the public and i'm not going to close the forum just now but at this time any members of the public have questions or comments that haven't had a chance to speak you know when i turn out of the committee members and uh iver let me start with you questions or comments uh red actually my question was was answered um during the course of this conversation so thank you sure um any questions or comments in your part um i think most of my questions are answered uh i think one of the ones i had was in terms of i know we're still in like conceptual stage but thinking about future and budgeting erosion control for those slope areas is that what we're thinking the planning of the trees is essentially doing yeah yes that that's going to help for sure um and um we're you know the engineers feel that um these are one foot contours so it looks steeper than it is even um but um but but we the slopes are such that we feel that um with that they'll that the erosion will be um uh will be will be minimum and and and certainly by planting it will will help maintain those slopes for sure gotcha and um in terms of keeping in the whole river shed view um in light that we have restrictions on lighting for the fields what are our options in those cases we're not recommending that that they be lit that this field be lit um i think um i think basically the other questions were i didn't have any other questions or they were answered um the concerns for obviously housing and removal of waste we don't have any of those concerns if we're still putting fields out there because they're going to be capped under concrete or and then the the cap the cap that is currently there these activities will all take place on top of that cap by adding where the field is in the parking area more fill and then the parking area can be put on a cap designed properly where the um middle field is we're flexible outdoor that's all on additional fill so you're not interfering with the cap um and and then where the bus parking materials handling that would be bringing a certain amount of new fill in and then this the the impervious surface won't allow that won't interfere with the cap that's a separate that'll keep it that'll protect the cap in fact act like an umbrella over the cap um but again we have to capture that runoff and then uh treat it right just like on the eastern side with the um dbw material center we need that's right that's what i'm saying that's right okay um i think those are all the questions for now thank you though those that the plan makes sense it's nice to have a visual lead thank you erin any questions or comments i don't think i have any additional comments or questions as it relates to the plan i think this is great incorporates as much as we possibly kind of can um actually as i'm saying i don't have any questions um carol plum mentioned the kayak like boat spot and i remember we discussed that can somebody just refresh my memory on why we didn't engage with that piece was it the um
like the steepness or i i can't remember i think it has to do with the location erin okay you have to travel quite a bit on the eastern end yes get to it yeah i think the best spot and we'll talk about it for years for um an area put in area is where the on the east on the east side of the river closer closer to the coac so that area i think if you're going to build something just uh i think that would be more of a better right access there's access there now some people feel that's efficient and they may be right but i think you're going to build something that be just more ideal that's right thank you tom sure mike stallman any comments questions um yeah uh thank you edna great uh great presentation and great uh great work on this so far um the runoff water from the parking areas that's going to get treated and then it's going to go and is it going to go out into some existing uh piping that's out underneath through 20 under boston post road good question the the there are two different uh areas that they'll be where there's parking and two different solutions the the dp the more challenging one is the one um where the to the east and that's going to be detained the the stormwater does a system will have to be designed to detain it and then to treat it and then if you ask me what does that entail um i i'm sorry that my engineering partner is not here to tell you what that means but that is the the process in which and um those are the steps that are undertaken i don't know the engineering of that but it's not pumped out into it's on-site detention and treatment um what so that will provide more information on the details of that when some a representative from weston and sampson can um can do that so and as for the the western parking lot that we that will be will we believe that with talking with weston and sampson and our landscape architects that with the additional fill fill there and the the size of that that we can can um have that water run off into into the site into the clean fill and so on so that and into the even to the top two feet of the that's above the landfill and have it permeate down in a in an on-site with any without having just special treatment beyond that okay fair enough thank you uh tom hold any thoughts on next question yes we're talking about this i'm thinking of it would be likely uh similar to what we have at the coa the community center um you know that's a pretty sizable parking lot and stormwater management was a big part of that project and they have subsurface uh collectors they've got a biofilter system they've got a dozen of these biofilters that are actually canisters that are located below ground that actually treat the water before it's discharged into the ground it's a similar proximity to the river as this project these parcels are so there are a number of best management practices that can be implemented uh to manage stormwater i'm just thinking of you know something that was so recent just a couple of years ago that was installed and um both the facilities and public works department um collaborated in in managing um that that project thank you um um mark norton i'm not sure you're with us um i see you say any questions or comments uh thank you tom i did have the opportunity to join on the run here um but uh no appreciate the thoughtful um approach incorporating as much as you could uh most of my questions were answered so looking forward to continuing the work uh just a couple comments uh first i'd like to thank you tom and the other tom and ed for doing this work it it's very very well done it's a shame we couldn't get the housing in but we did beat that up as much as we could and that's just not going to work right i do like the flexible space in the middle uh you know the field and the materials handling and the buses are going to be there a long time uh long after we're gone uh and having a flexible space there to meet the needs of the future people so they can decide what they want to do there is a nice idea and it'll be good access so no i think i think it's a good idea it's a good use of the land it should be a nice facility when we're done thank you i don't have any questions either uh that you care but uh as others have expressed we really appreciate your professional work here and your innovative ideas your experience and this evidence and what you've produced your advice to our committee has been invaluable looking at what you put forward looking at our 17 uses you know this is better than i do ed but more of a concern about space like this being too busy and i don't think the presentation we've given tonight suggests you have space in the middle which is the town's flexibility if they wanted to put one or two more items on there whether it be an imp theater or a yard park something like that but as you present it i think it um it works well and really appreciate it yeah i think that middle space helps um you know you know you know there's we've seen people use these kinds of spaces for to fly kites and you know just just a lot of just kind of picnic sit outside and have a nice picnic there and so on so um and a nice break between between the dpw and the bus facility over there and then and then the soccer field as well so it we were a little concerned that we were squeezing too many things in here i think a really nice asset and uh one of the nice that trailhead for the folks to come and because if the state dcr helps pay for the parking field um to the part of the cost for the parking field and i would think that they would help pay for the path to to descend down to the to the trip to the trail that's the kind of projects they help fund trailheads that this will be a lovely amenity in itself for people to come and drive but people from oxbow all to oxbow to walk across the street with a proper grade crossing that'll be a nice amenity for that those members of your community to come across here get on the path and walk down to the river um but um so that that's that's a real that that's a terrific facility um and then the athletic field certainly there's a need for that um so yeah i don't i we were a little concerned that it was getting too busy but i think it it's it's it's we're getting to some kind of nice balance to it the details to be worked out in in in the next phase as and um so on well jennifer steel you have a question or comment yes thanks can you hear me yes we can yeah thanks yeah um actually ed you brought it up um just at the last minute there i was going to ask specifically about a podesta safe pedestrian crossing for specifically for alta oxbow residents i didn't see it in the plan here to know exactly where their access drive is or where it might make the most sense but i know that it's hard to get um signaled crossings on state routes and is has that have those conversations been held no but i would think that you know that that that they're going to have to happen because uh you know you have this you have 20 comes through the town so you've found ways to make safe crossings across 20 um but then we'll have to work that out with mass you know mass highway so but they're going to want to cross and so you want to make sure that it's done in a safe clear way right though currently there's not sidewalk on the south side of route 20 is there no no right so so the location so either anyway this this plan would would need to anticipate and incorporate access from a crossing point up to the entry an appropriate entry point whether that's the drive into the parking lot or a separate entry point for pedestrians and the grading is going to make that challenging and hopefully the folks the management over owners and owners and managers over at alta oxbow would be be willing to participate be partners in that yeah yeah well it's certainly a good conversation to start early knowing knowing how quickly mass mass dot moves
anything else done pretty good no thank you thank you thank you any other members of the public have questions or comments including none go uh close the public phone and once again thank you for your time this evening i didn't offer a talent folder i don't think the opportunity for asking questions or comments but uh do so now no i thought ed did a really nice job of providing an overview a lot of uh a lot of work went into this between the collaborative western and sampson the committee members uh public works staff so i think it's uh it's a nice vision and i think uh the group should be proud of it thanks tom so ed it's been a pleasure working with the town by the way um we've enjoyed it we're a very good town very you know they understand you know this is not easy to to do but it's going to be a i think it's going to be a an asset to the community thank you for kind words that you're welcome to stay with us but uh i'll head out i think you might be better i prefer it head out but thank you for your time thank you thank you ed so well if you can not permit ed to share a screen so we can move on the regular screen would be ideal
um so next item on our agenda is to consider the draft report that is in the packet i welcome comments and questions macro but what i was going to do then is to bring up the report on the screen and kind of go through each of the um potential users and and we make some hard decisions on what what we want to actually keep them up for example we may want to have a list of items that might reflect what they want to consider for that common area on the middle area um that's just one one but let me open it up um any any macro comments or questions on the report i have a question tom isn't at any point has and i just can't remember um at any point has a select board received any written documentation prior to this from this group kind of like recapping the different phases that this committee's kind of gone through or is this going to be the first and kind of last okay yeah i mean all the minutes are visible um uh online but uh this will be the first and last okay i read any questions or comments on the report mac macro field not at the moment thank you how about you um um um no comments except uh question our next phase of the one he's talking about more details and design is that what we're expecting next and so this would be what he what he proposes is um what he called programmatic design and this is what we would present this like and then um select board would digest it and decide what next steps it wants to take could be a number of steps and then at this phase we have not confirmed the use for solar right or the introduction of the solar panels and this design so this will not be what goes forward to that other committee that's correct and for example that doesn't mean we don't mention solar in the report and um i think you heard a comment about the challenge of putting a canopy solar over there maybe not possible but i would have concerning any other solar panels it might that we see at the landfill and sundry this looks much longer i'm not sure the height within that but um sure um and then i guess the other question is will this report need to include any of those calculations for stormwater runoff or is that just now uh like a lump thing that we're going to say that we have to do yeah that would that would be the design was consumed that detail would be in that okay and other than that i think the plan that they suggested seems fairly non-invasive and inclusive of what most of people want it so yeah mike spellman any macro comments no nothing further uh everything was really covered very well tonight and um you know it was conceptual start so it looks like we've got a great start to it you can just start filling in the details and then i'll have more to comment on them i'm sure but as of now nothing all right so once our report which i don't think we'll vote tonight on that one more maybe but once the report goes for the bill i can say digest them inside um do we in this report uh do we need to include any more of a where we're expecting budget for our conversation yeah so i'm going to aim to include budget numbers in the report i'm going to push ed and lesson samson to get me those prior to the next meeting so i think it would be helpful and frankly it's not important to give a ballpark at least not based on when people kind of you know people can appreciate those people with the public uh many members who are have to say okay um mark any questions on the report macro one yeah from a macro perspective i think they did a really nice job of addressing you know our thoughts and requests and uh providing flexibility to the town i thought was really nicely done so um nothing further here but any thoughts uh just just the ballpark uh cost estimate i think is is important to include and you've already got that the rest of it looks pretty good to me you're going to include some of uh ed's drawings i assume in this report yes yeah i will yeah i'll forget so um bring up now um portion of the portion of the portion of the report starting in section four was about really that it received on the screen again again it clears the draft report
so i think what i'd like to do is um does everyone have the report uh with them on my computer or i can pull it up if you want me to i have it tight like printed as well with me do you want me to pull it up actually i think i might i think i may maybe want you can get it on the town website that's a good point okay here we go see it yep all right so what i'd like to do is go through these options and see whether we want to delete any or possibly create a portion of the report where we mention them but that's kind of options so anyway past recreation open space my sense is that we would keep that that there number number two solar and so um yes sorry what are your thoughts on pulling this out um as something that could kind of be overlaid with other uses for an option one both one and two um so um expanding is on your thoughts um past recreation i see it's more like the the walkways and maybe the area between bus parking and and the trail the trailhead and the field yep oh and the field and the lower part right um that i see is kind of a past recreation open space but but uh you're thinking is to kind of well go ahead um elaborate on the thoughts i'm i'm just thinking of um
these just strike me as things that can be woven into a number of yeah options so they're almost like evergreen options that can be you know regardless of the other kind of options that can be actually fit and are are true options at the site based on benefits challenges and kind of final assessment um they're viable to the extent that um they can they can almost be like not an afterthought but also an afterthought if that makes sense um so if you're thinking erin to um have the report focus primarily on the active recreation naming the field bus parking lay down area then go from there that you're thinking yeah okay yeah i think we spent a lot of time um arriving at narrowing down what was legitimately an opportunity to put at this site yeah okay okay all right good i can do that i can do it now and then so therefore your solo would be um in in the more attention right um this would be your your active and i would main main main main recommendation right yeah sorry do we need to clarify the lighting aspect here's you know i was just gonna say we have to strike that i'll let it i'll take that out yeah in fact what what i think i'll do we'll say without money and uh i love lighting there for any reasons but i remember a comment you made came up early on in our meetings about uh rare flight and to the extent that any cold could do that that might be specific um moving on for this these would this would be a combination this would be a combination um kind of macro consideration maybe an amphitheater possibility even like maybe but the natural based style elements could be again part of the big picture
parking i would consider more part of the field yeah you all agree the other thing is um i'm wondering also tom if maybe presenting um as part of this section for the evaluation of potential use options kind of laying out a lot of these have similar challenges maybe we lay out um a bucket of sort of
why x y or z isn't where we landed kind of at the outset i know that you have the the spot on the housing yep and i think you could build on that and tie in how um um
uh for example a dog park right right right right what else would we food in that do you think
i mean um the amphitheater i think is
it's yeah i mean it's pretty tough i think but that right
especially because any real structural nothing can nothing really structural can be put here right right so so many options are limited because of that yeah even the reference to the bathrooms right they need to be porta potties for yeah okay yeah um right let me do that a little bit parking we can include in field sessions um parking and i think the other thing to tie into the parking would be um highlighting the potential to tie into the dcr financial support okay um both the parking and kind of the natural elements um that was a piece that ed kind of highlighted that may be i think that's helpful to call out too right also is the parking number capped at 82 is that what he is rethinking 82 is a maximum number of parking spots as per the design mine skin yep yes that was my guess
now um we'll mention the uh electric vehicle charging but it can get expensive for installation but we'll mention it uh yes you might you might want to point out on the on the electrification that the basic electric service that you need is right there on the street okay the three-phase power that you need so any other place where you put that in town you're going to need a whole lot more infrastructure than what you're going to need there which is not to say that you won't need a lot of infrastructure in the first place but if you wanted to put in you know a charging station for one or two buses that wouldn't be too hard to do there and uh can you explain to me is it coming off of poles or is there a line and there there are poles there there's a you know in order to get a lot of like you need a lot of electricity to charge a bus in order to get a lot of electricity you need what's called three-phase power you know you don't have three-phase power to your house and neither do i because we don't need a lot of power but you need a lot and three-phase power is the main uh power lines that distribute power it's it's not the stuff in the on the high tension line that's typically 110 000 volts the three-phase power is typically 5 000 volts uh and and that's what you need going into your house and mine you have 220 volts so it's hard to electrocute yourself or at least it's harder um right so item seven will include in our discussion in the other comments um eight would be one of the main the three main recommendations um nine will be part of one of the macro macro sections 10 10 will mention as an option for the town but but um obviously it won't be part of the report plan um so um so i will rework this report based on comments and other comments people have
i just have a question on and i think we should just be prepared potentially for um some pushback related to option eight um just based on the build out of the the new dpw facility in recent years that's still being paid for um so i just think we should be prepared to kind of address that as a why here um so you might you might want to check with uh tom holder and and put in the cost benefit there his estimate of how much he's spending now to not have that space right and you might also mention that this lifeboard did promise a space like that before oxbow went in yeah i think that's in the work um but i um i understand what you're saying not to say we shouldn't do it i'm sure this is you know it makes sense i just think we should yeah i mean ultimately the reflect board makes recommendations and i think the conversation would be more we will focus on this site once uh it's like the world besides we we will pursue but our job is to make recommendations and in part based on town news and i think i think the biggest thing that in the rework of this tom yeah and i'm happy to help you um as much or as little as you'd like um but i think if we streamline these options and really present it like we've like we have truly worked this as much as it's been worked the the better viability it has for being picked up and and carried all right other comments or questions on the report uh we'll be including the drawings from shoe care in this yes i will okay we'll do that all right so is your plan to tidy this up and then have us vote on it next meeting yeah so what i'll do is i'll i'll rework the report and we'll send it out and pack it and i'll be in touch um soon maybe there's always tonight with emails on meeting dates and let's try to meet one more time and we can work through this and then um even if there are the treats to be made you can
do we have a meeting schedule a week from tonight do we not yeah i thought we did too yeah oh we do yeah we do yeah yeah we do oh yeah i actually have that in my oh no yeah yeah what is that does that work for you aaron i don't know 24th
i was more organized than i thought yeah no actually i have it in my calendar too
does that work for you mike um it does not uh tom holder and i both have a board of public works meeting next week at this time section um what if we what if we did it at five that cut is that the type of people do you dislike me that much tom well why even ask the question
um and oh mark how about you is that does five work on the 24th sorry i'm uh i had to get unmuted there it doesn't it does work it does i'm sure it does uh affirmative yes sir that's right and erin how about you i can do that how about you it zoom right sorry no no okay yeah uh five on 24th yeah how many possibilities i can jam that in okay that's just a few yeah i can make that all right i'll uh another confirmation email then uh post that and we'll make and plan on that and the objective of that meeting is to polish off this report and if you're so inclined um and commit the chair
to include your comments and divisions for submission for selected that will be our last one do we do we do we have a copy of the slide deck that um ed presented tonight i'm going to ask you what i'm going to ask him if he has no objection i'll send it to him i'll put it in the back okay great it's not i might even be able to send it something anything further before we adjourn um yeah i just have one more thing apparently um uh some things come up where apparently this may relate more with the tom holder uh there was some digging or intrusion into some mbta while we're doing uh mbta property i think it's over on the eastern side while the new western samson we're doing the new testing or test drills and uh maybe an issue with where we have encroached on mbta property and done destruction to some of the natural heritage land over there and i was given a heads up from conservation that they may be we may have to account for restoration of that area too not sure how that works into our budget but or what's happening there but it may affect our overall budget and what our next steps are in terms of doing anything with that property there so it would be my sense uh that i and i do understand what you're describing is that uh yes we did go beyond the town's property line uh when removing some of the vegetation the cap does extend into dcr property so it's my sense when we're working with dcr working with mass dep and we're actually helping the dcr out by performing this work for them they would much rather have us do it than them do it uh so i i don't envision this being a problem okay all right
all right okay any other questions or comments having none um i invite uh motion to adjourn so moved second second by trick uh that was a favor of motion but yes i am yes erin yes yep mike yes mark yes have a nothing vote uh thank you all for attending tonight and