January 13, 2026 – Historic District Commission – Video & Transcript
January 13, 2026 - Historic District Commission
Well, welcome, everybody. This meeting is the Wayland Historic District Commission.
My name is Greg Dale. I'm the chair of the Historic District Commission meeting.
And joining us today, we have various members of the Historic District Commission.
Could I get each member to introduce themselves?
Sure.
Who can take minutes today?
I could.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, the residents' minutes were wonderful last time around. They were fabulous.
So introductions from our meeting.
Marjorie Bastin.
Gretchen Schuler.
Jessica Collin.
Linda Collin.
And we may have two more joining on Zoom shortly.
Better get busy here.
So at today's meeting, we're going to have a public hearing where the applicant will present.
And to kick that off, I'm going to officially open the public hearing and have you, the team,
present what you're doing to the committee.
We'll ask questions.
We'll debate it.
But the public hearing is officially open.
Thank you.
My name is Don Varecchia.
My wife, Married South Hardy, and I were on the house at 20 Concord Road in Wayland in the Historic District.
We've been before the commission before.
Many years ago, I took a shot at this and it just wasn't quite good enough.
So we contracted with Amy Nastassi.
She's an architect from Lexington and asked her to make this work, to keep it, period, and to improve the property.
So Amy's actually going to present, and we're open to suggestions if there are any concerns, and we want to work with you on those.
Our goal is to get the appropriateness certificate.
So I'll turn it over to you, Amy.
Okay.
Are you going to put, are there people out in the Zoom world?
Are you doing it on the board?
I can do whatever you like.
So I can share the PDF I have.
Is it the same as this?
Approximately.
That's when you gave me.
Alrighty.
Nice.
Yeah.
A little blurry.
Those things, that's the only problem.
I mean, we can just page through the book.
Whatever's easier for you guys.
We need to go through the book.
We all have the book.
If everyone has the book, let's say the book.
Okay.
We don't.
Okay.
Alex, shout out if you'd like to see something.
Who doesn't have a book?
Oh, great.
No, I do.
I do have a book.
Thank you.
You gave one to him directly.
Then page numbers would probably be good, too.
If there are some.
Oh, no page numbers.
Alex.
Thank you, Alex.
Sorry if I sounded like some sort of God from behind you here.
I don't know if I heard that.
I was like, where is it?
I don't know if I'm looking.
Anyway.
Okay.
Well, so let's see.
Let's just start.
Do you want to go through like the three or any of that stuff or as to what we're proposing
to do?
The way I put this booklet together, plan views so that we could, you know, get our head
around what we're, because it has pictures, which I think everybody knows the house, plan
views, and then the proposed addition.
And then you can see where, as it develops, and the addition off of the L, and then the elevations.
So I think if we start with plan views, that would be the best place.
Presentation.
Okay.
So let's start with the plan views.
We have the existing first floor plan drawing EX1, showing the first floor, which consists of
an existing 18, 17, 18, 16, 18, 16 house on the front part, the top part.
And then a lower left is about a 1920 edition.
And then there's this weird little, this little entry and porch that I'm not sure when that
was built, but it doesn't look authentic.
If you can tell from the photographs, actually, this, this porch area here.
So we're proposing changing that. That's the big change. Um, the kitchen's a little small and we're having circulation problems. So that's why we wanted to make the addition here at the existing porch. And if you flip to drawing EX1 proposed, it will show where the first floor addition is going. First floor porch is wrapping around and a little section of another first floor, actually two-story addition there in the upper right corner behind the, the, um, fireplace. This was very helpful. It kind of gives you an idea of what's on top. My husband is, is a super architect and he has no problem at all, but I need this to see. This is the experience that really look at something carefully. So, so then when you turn to the next page, EX2, we have the second floor, um, which shows two existing bedrooms and an office and a bathroom and another there's, it's kind of difficult because if you can see the, um, there's a bathroom and a hallway in this stairway corridor and it's like halfway up, make sure we're on the same page with you. You're on the second, EX2, EX2, there you go back, go back one. Okay. Thank you. Keep going. Backing up. Keep going. One more. Okay. Two more, I think. Two more. Okay. Thank you. I need this. Okay. So thank you. So on, on this level, we have like in between levels of a yoga studio and a system bathroom and the, so that's a little bit confusing, but basically it's the addition, the, uh, two bedrooms in the old part of the house or the older part of the house and then a office and a bathroom in the, in the newer 1920 edition. And then where it says roof, that piece would come out and we're proposing putting the addition in there. So you can see on EX2, the proposed addition filled in that area in there. Then we can go to the real plans of what we're doing on each level. So on drawing SK-12, you're going to make an entrance, a few steps up in a, in a porch, a five foot porch wrapping around, um, and you come straight into an entry area that could expand. It expands the use of the kitchen. So the kitchen on the left has just been opened up and we have more space to walk around and circulate. And then you walk through the hall area there and we've reconfigured the staircase and eliminated the middle half levels. Um, so that's, that's floor one. So the thing that's a little bit complicated is on this floor, you can see it says entry and we have door and windows and the porch. Over the right hand side of the porch, it says line of second floor above. So the second floor extends over that porch that we need a big enough bedroom up there and a bathroom. Okay. So then we get up to the second floor and you can see that you only have some roof showing on the porch on SK 13, the front roof port of the porch is just on that one facade. And then the building wraps around on the, uh, um, above the porch below. And we include, um, have a new bathroom up here and we have a new, uh, staircase. So then, uh, on the site plan, you can see it's near the existing garage, but we have distance between, and there's no code requirements there for that anyway. Um, and you can see that this is Concord Ave on drawing SK 18, uh, in the most visible part of the house is the, the side facing Concord Ave and the front a bit in the back of it, but the rear side facing the garage is not visible from the street at all that we switched to what's not visible from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Almost. This, this. Uh, relation is not visible from the. Yeah. Okay. If I, yeah, you also have things in the way, so it'd be hard to see back there. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
So the orientation of the site plan, the plan is different. Okay. Right. That's correct. Yeah. The orientation of the plans aren't the same as the site plan. Okay.
Okay. So then moving on to the elevations, because the existing elevation on the top of your gauge drawing EX six with the proposed elevation of SK 17, on this elevation, this faces Concord Ave. This is the main, like the bend of the road. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And I could actually show you a photograph at the same time, but it's so clear. It's really not clear, right? So, uh, it's a picture, which you want to do. Um, not there. And I have that one. It's a question. And I like that. And that's right. Yeah. Like on this drawing, it's this, uh, or on this photograph, it's this side, and this is the main part of Concord. So for Concord Road. So on that elevation, the only change we're proposing is to make one of the windows a little bit shorter, similar to the existing windows. There's two windows on the first floor, right-hand side of the existing elevation. And we propose the third window is the same as those other two windows, because that's where we're going to put the kitchen counter.
So we're shortening up that one window.
It was odd. It was longer anyway. Right. In a way, yeah, that's going to match up.
We have a lot more interior space, which would be wonderful. Right. Are you guys ready for the next stage? Right. So that, that was, um, that was in my mind, kind of a minor adjustment to that elevation. The next elevation, we're changing a lot. So you can see on the top of the page, the existing house has that covered porch area and a, uh, a shed dormer that's in one of those weird mid-level places. And the, the dormer will be coming out, the porch will be coming out and we'll be adding a second floor all the way across, basically to the center of the chimney. Almost. So we're expanding the second floor out to there, to the edge of the chimney. And then we're putting a first floor roof for a porch. And then you'll walk underneath the second floor addition to get into the porch on the, on the right-hand side. So that is covered basically by the addition, which will be apparent in the next elevation. Yes. So then turn to page EX5, existing side elevation. Again, the porch on the left-hand side will be removed. The dormer will be removed on the upper left side of the existing house. And we're filling in with a, an addition on the second floor and, um, and recessing in a little bit on the first floor. So we have a porch that wraps on the first level. And for the roof, we're keeping the same roof lines and we're flattening out the roof in the middle of the big flat rubber, rubber roof to, um, so that we can keep our slopes matching the other slopes of the rest of the house around and existing slope situation. Um, and then we have our roof plan, which I'll explain that. So the existing flipping, you get to design EX3, and we have the existing roof plan of the house, which has the old part up at the top of the page and the newer part on the lower left side of the page. And then if you turn, you have the proposed roof plan, which shows the flat area and then picking up on the matching roof slopes around the house. Um, way, um, before we looked at the roof, we were, we were looking at the back view of the house, right? And that gives us the perspective that, um, while you're changing the roof to accommodate the interior changes, you're also maybe for the word correcting, is it right? But the current roof is a little wonky with some weird stuff. Yeah. So you're kind of bringing the slopes consistent, right? That, um, and you don't see any of that from the front of the house. You do not. Or the side, really. This is almost from a drone. Right. Right. You would never see the flat part ever. Right. Okay. Unless you're above it. Like that? Yeah. Yeah. But, um, and the property is elevated from content load. Exactly. It's a part to begin with. It's a quick question. Um, what are you doing for transition between the rubber roof and the shingle roof? That detail has not been worked out yet, but if you have any suggestions. It's a tricky one. Okay. Yeah. I didn't even know that, honestly. So, I mean, I know that people have done like gravel with like the metal edge, but we're thinking rubber. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, I haven't discussed this, but, um, when I went driving around, there's a yellow house, uh, right near the church, big yellow colonial. Yeah. And there's a church. Yeah. And there's, there's a dormer on the roof with three windows. And, um, cause I, I looked at the rubber, you know, I was just going, guess what you said? How are you going to transition that? It looks like what they did is they have like, um, two by six or whatever. That's white. And then the rubbers on that. And then, then it, the jingles. I was curious to see if you had a detail at all. Just understanding what the, it has a visual impact. That's all. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting that you asked, uh, Desmond now, I know this is out of our purview in a way, but I've, uh, sectioned a flat roof when they were adding onto my house and that's what I have trouble with is the flat. Does it leak? Is that, uh, yeah, that's the problem. Um, okay. Just, I mean, just get a solution in mind. Not yet. I'm going to work on that once it gets approved. Yeah. I haven't gotten that far into it. Our, our goal is to match the existing asphalt shingles for the, this part that we can say, but a 30 year shingled, you know, uh, well, are we replacing the whole thing? The entire, all the shingles will be replaced. Right. So you replace them with 30 or 40 year. Or 50 year shingles. Yeah.
Um, so, so then on SK 14, you can see even more, the problem of where the transition will be. Um, yeah, that whole big square. See the, the, the, the interesting thing about the problem is that what you'd really want to do is you'd want to terminate it with copper, have copper come up around. That would be nice. Forming a nice little edge along the, along it. But then you say to yourself, okay, so. Where's the water going? Where's the water going? Right. Because you want the water to go down here. Yeah. And here. So, um, I think it's worth able to exercise to understand what the, how that, how that's treated. Mm-hmm. It's dealt with. It's a tricky, tricky detail and you don't want to get it wrong because then you've got a leaky roof. Yeah, definitely not. Yeah. Could you, I'm sorry. Could you do, um, like a recessed rubber roof up there and then have a roof drain? Um, you could, yeah, you're dealing with another, you're dealing, you're dealing with bringing the water into the house now. Yeah. You're getting it out of the house. I would think in the realm of do no wrong or harm. You'd really, you'd really want to make sure you want to keep the water on the roof, draining the roof into the gutter system, which is the system that's devised to. What if you like made like kind of a pyramid, like, you know, a foot higher, you won't see it and then you could pitch it. Typically you pitch quarter inch per foot. Right. So, so. The path is there to see how much, how high it would be, what the impact would be visually. Right. You know, there's, there's, there's, there's several solutions, but it just seems to me that, um, within the realm of this typology, this type of architecture, um, the details of what make it work or not, the general gist of, of what you're laying out, you know, sure it makes, makes sense in terms of conforming with the, the typology of the, of the house, um, where it gets interesting, where you, where the solution works or not is, um, detail, how the bits and pieces go together. Right. That's what people pick up on. There's a, um, a historic building in Lexington called the Monroe Tavern, and they actually have this situation. So maybe I can get some information on how they did it. Sure. Yeah. Um, that, that's, that's the, the big thing to me with these kinds of, these types of buildings, some of this, this kind of addition to it, it's, the D, the details, what really makes it work. You know, another thing, uh, I'll say just a small thing is that, uh, I have to pay real attention to the gutters. It makes me sure they're cleaned. Yeah. Yeah. There's a group that's called, uh, Holy Suds. Love them. They come, they do a really good job with gutters and they want to come twice a year. Really? Well, I have huge pine trees over my house. What is that? I could be up in a ladder once a week cleaning my gutter. I could. Yeah. With a group that comes out quarterly. This is twice a year. And I think that's very short money. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's an important thing to keep, keep in mind. Cause that. So in terms of, sorry. Go ahead. I'm finished. Yeah. Sure. Well, it just keep those gutters clean. However, however it's done. And on a regular basis, that hire somebody like I'm going to hire this Holy Suds to come twice a year, all the time. I want to depend on them. I have that issue on the roof, the, the porch that's coming off. Oh, right. In the back there. There's a roof. That's a pretty flat. It's, it's not rubber. It's very old. And there's copper all the way around. And the copper rises up about an inch. Yeah. And there is a copper, a square copper gutter that's against the, the 1816 structure. And the gutter comes all the way around that. And the same thing. You've got to keep that gutter clean. You do. And, and I have to get out there with a rod. Yeah. Push it out because it'll just be compacted, you know. So what kind of material are you thinking of for the new gutters? If you're putting a new roof on, I assume you're putting a new gutter system on. So what am I thinking of for the materiality of that? The butter. Great. That's all. I'm going to throw out something else that I'm probably going to get myself into trouble for, but the historic district commission did approve for my barn because it was a real problem with the barn. It was part of the barn that was built after the civil war. And then there was a small part of the barn attached that was built as a tomb schoolhouse in 1750, then it was an old red storm. Anyway, so much water was coming off the main roof. It was going down to the smaller and rotting the sill on this very old structure. What they allowed me to do, and I was the first in the historic district commission to have it, was a metal gutter with a roof on it. I think it's called gutter helmet. I'm trying to know what it was called. But it's the same. Huh? Leaf guard? Well, leaf guard and gutter helmet. It's all one piece.
It's the barn, so you can't tell. And actually, it made it very neat and tidy, and they're quite large with very big down spouts, and I've never had to clean it. It has worked forever, and it's just been there. But I made the mistake of putting wood gutters on our house, which was a mistake. To be honest with you. I like mine. Except for one section. The wood gutter is lined with copper, right? No, I don't have any copper. Oh. Oil. Yeah, I'm afraid no copper lining in my wood gutter. Yeah, maybe that was part of the problem. Sorry, I must have missed. What was the material the gutters were being proposed? Copper. Copper. Okay. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You bet. I'm going to. I do. I have a few questions about the windows. Yeah. If we're done with the roof. Okay. Um, I guess, uh, we can look at, let's see, and elevation view. Uh, you know, I love what you did on SK-17 with making that third window the same size. Um, I'm interested to know about, uh, the change on SK-15 on the existing part of the house. You go from, uh, it looks like a single double-hung window to a triple. That's, yeah, it's a triple, and it's a little, it's small, like, flanked two smaller windows on one window that is kind of like the existing window that's there. Yep. And now it's just to let more light into that room. Yeah, I think it looks great, and as well, the, the detail, um, you know, the, where the door gets moved, and then the two windows beside it, um, it looks to be, yeah. Yeah, yeah, is, is the window in the EX-4, the one that's just above the roof there, is that a similar size to what you're proposing on SK-15? No, on SK-15, those are closer to the one that's existing on SK-4 in the single window on the, where we're replacing it with the triple. Okay, got it. That's like an existing bathroom window on one of the weird mid-levels. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. That's a very small window. That bathroom is, is actually between two floors. That's why it's so alive. So if you go back to SK-15, um, the new window proposal, uh, I think it's great to have more, more, more light in there. What I'm wondering about, though, is the, the division between the, the, the, the four-over-three and then the two-over-fours. Can I say that again? Uh, the division between, so you've got your new window. Your, your new window is, um, three-over-two, two-three-over-three stacked, and then beside it, uh, two-over-twos stacked. It would be interesting to see if we could get some more division between the two-over-twos and the three-over-twos. Okay. Like, like, uh, uh, four-over-of-three. More robust. So, like, a thicker separating. Yeah, yeah. Dividing. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would help you do that. Actually, I was squeezing that. And it would, it would, it would actually read more like the, like, the doubles you have. Yeah, right. Yeah. Can you, I think, I mean, turn this in. Yeah, I think so, too. We were trying to, um, keep, think, need space so we could put a closet in that bathroom. But I think you could move it over. We actually. We could also do just one double window. Even just two double. It's too sad. Not do that, do the triple. And then we'll have space to fit in the class if we wanted to. That might be nice. It might mirror what you're doing above the porch roof. Yeah. I think so. Right. You like that? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. I think, I think composition, it would just read. Yeah. So, two larger rather than the three, right? Rather than the triple, we'll just do two similar to the ones just over to the right side. Above the porch. The porch. Yep. Two larger. Right. That was my only bugaboo. Oh, good. Good. Oh. So, what is it? So, what are we doing here? So, we're going to take this window and make it like that right there. Great. That's great. And then, for the finishes, we're just matching everything. Same trim, same siding. We're proposing the porch floor be bluestone or granite. Oh. Yeah, because that's, I like bluestone or granite. I'm not opposed to composite wood. I don't, I think that that would be so difficult to read anyway, you know, from the road. You wouldn't see it in any. That I, I think you should add what you want there. Yeah. I would personally think you want to avoid composite wood every day. I know. I think it would be nicer to have this. The only wood I actually think is good that does something simpler to it is, there are, there are, there are wood products where they, they, they actually, temper is not the right word, but they, they, they treat the wood, the wood with steam and, and actual, it, it, it gives more durability to the, to the wood. I can, I can get the term, the appropriate term for it. Um, we were looking at, we were looking at it for a project down in Florida and, um, because it's, it's, it's just, it's robust. It doesn't, a huge amount of, it's essentially, it's, it's wood and all they've done is they, they treated it with steam and, um, a few other things that hasn't really changed. It is just given to the more robust, uh, characteristics. Mahogany kind of wood? Well, no, it doesn't matter. I think there's several different woods they use, um, but, um, um, there are, there are Brazilian, um, Brazilian, uh, rosewoods, um, not rosewoods, um, um, there's a Brazilian wood that, um, it makes, uh, it makes, uh, it makes, I pay, but it's, it's actually farmed. So it's not coming from old growth. So there's a couple of, there's a couple of options you have, but I think, I think the bluestone, the bluestone is fine. Well, yeah, as you, as you walk up in the driveway right now, uh, prior owner, I don't know how many years ago, but, um, there's very large slate panels and I'm just, yeah. It's a transition from the stone to the wood. Yeah. Yeah. It's the continuity, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Better.
Um, from concrete, or how would you do that? Just out of curiosity, uh, what, what's there now is, um, you know, little squares of the bathroom tile. Yeah. That's what a prior owner put it. It's treacherous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's gosh, I think it's quite perfect. Yeah. And it has it in probably 12 feet. It pitches about three inches and it's, it's really rare, very poorly done. Yeah. So that's going to have to be taken out and demoed and then, and then we will build up with, um, yeah, with maybe back belt for that. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's the disaster that it's, it's, it's dangerous actually. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like, yeah. Is, is this going to be slab construction or is there a basement? There is not a basement. I mean, there is a basement in part of the house, but we are planning on just a crawl space. It won't be slab. It'll be, um, it'll be like 18 inches of upgrade or something. Yeah. Right. Okay. And wood frame. And what? Wood frame. It is sure. Yeah. Yeah. The 1816 section has a full basement, but we're not trying to add basement space and we don't want to underpin anything. It's going to keep it up. So you're going to do something. Well, I, we could do a frost wall. Yeah. That's probably that's. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. We might have access to it from down there, but from the basement, but. A frost wall. Frost. Frost wall. Thank you. I'm taking the notes. Thank you. Frost. I have to admit, I'm, I'm agnostic about whether you, you have three small windows or two small, not one large. I think, uh, where are you? Oh, okay. Okay. So we can, we can decide that this will be at our discretion. Right. Exactly. Okay. But you, but you like the, the spacer bar. That's the thing. Okay. Yes. That's what this is. Well, I think we have to look at the size and say what we can. The closet of the house. What do I call it? The exits. Facing the facade. No, the right. The one facing Concord Road.
This space is Concord Road. Yeah. Right here. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And gutters are all, um, thing in the place as well. What are? Gutters. Not gutters. I said they're not stouts. Excuse me. Um, the gutters on, the gutters on the 1816 section are, are all fine. And downspouts are fine. Yeah. Um, there'll be all new gutters on the, right. Okay. And they're, they're copper on the existing. No, they're not. Okay. Oh, what are they? They're aluminum. Yeah. Okay. How about the posts for the porch roof? Mm-hmm. What are you planning there? Well. Simple lines or?
I, actually, we're planning on, I envision square, square, some trim, you know, some like federal style trim. Yeah. Yeah. What's existing now is six by six posts. Yeah. And so we were thinking about just doing the same thing. Right. Mm-hmm. So it would certainly be better. But you're going to make it simple, are you? It's going to be simple. And trim would be? Well, we'd have like a cap and a base. You would. It would be wood. It would be wood, probably a structure. No, no, you would do both. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yes. I'm not so sure it's necessary to have base, you know, define bases. Well, I mean, in this period, in this kind of a house. Yeah. You don't think they would have a base? You can. If it's simple. Yeah. Yeah. It could be simple. For the trim, though, I said we were doing the same materials, but I think we would probably want to use composite wood in the same process. I suggest there's some other materials out there I can send you some. Yeah. Okay. Great.
Can you say composite wood? What do you mean? Is it? Is that? Thermal wood? Is that the term we're looking for? Thermal wood? Right. Yes. And who just fell that? That's not ASAC. That's not ASAC. It's a thermal wood. It's real wood. ASAC. Okay. Sure, it's been around forever. It's been created. Right. But it's real wood, which is, I think, the important thing. I've used ASAC. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. It does. None of those plastic-based materials retain dimensional stability. Right. They just don't. Yeah. They get moldy. It's not good. I would not use that. Do you have a recommendation that was something other than that? That's what he's going to send to us. Okay. Thermal wood. Yeah. That's intense. Thermal? Thermal, yeah. And you can tie that down to. Thermal wood. It's steam-treated wood. I want to buy some, too. I think that everybody's saying this right, but it's thermo, like N's in O. It ends in O. Okay. Yeah. I'll pull you out. Not thermal. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. I can pull the spec tab for you, too. Thank you. Somebody's going to have to correct my minutes.
It's dribbling stuff, too. I can't read my handwriting. No problem. I guess my next question would be about the railing and balusters. You know, I'm assuming. Simple. Simple. Yeah. Just simple square baluster and one-inch squares. Like a farmhouse. Yeah. Great. That's exactly right. Yeah.
I think it's important that we ask, because you'll be able to see it. But so much nicer than it's there now. Oh, yeah. It'll look a lot earlier.
This looks very good. And the door has six lights over one single panel? Over a wood panel. Raised panel. Right. Raised panel, yes.
This is the main door. Oh, here it is here. Yeah. Fifteen. The door has a single panel. Right. Calls. They're going to be posted. Yeah. Calls. And the same, like, we were saying. Did you say it had a raised panel? Maybe it's a panel below six light. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, we're not talking about any orders here. Yeah. All right. Yeah. No, I know. That's what it shouldn't be. I was just saying that, especially because they're all square, the posts are square and the balusters are square, that they shouldn't be trimmed out really at all. Thank you very much. It's just like a cap and a base, but on the columns. It's very, very simple. It's very, very simple. No other trim. Yeah. You were just saying there's no order. You're not talking about putting a door of order column. No. No. No. Yeah. All right. All right. So the changes we've talked about now are the windows, the trim, a little bit, using thermo, but I mean, anyway. Talked about the gutters. We talked about the roof. We talked about a lot of things, but I'm thinking of changes in the proposal that we will need to have. Yeah, because here we have three windows proposed, and that's changed to two. That would need to go into the certificate of appropriateness. So just the changes, if we approve what has been proposed and then list the changes. Changes, sir. Okay. We do. In my note-taking, it wasn't clear to me when we do this, the porch deck material, it's not visible from the street. We've made many recommendations. Are we going to say it's up to you, whatever you put down? Or are we going to say this, this, this, or that? Depends how we model the motion. My feeling is that I shouldn't, I mean, it may be minimally visible. I don't think it's going to have an impact on that. I will say that I drive by Don and Barrett's house every day, and I cannot see their porch. Yes. The floor. There you go. Especially when you're in Toronto or. Yeah, exactly. Well, and I drive a pickup truck. So I've got a pretty elevated view. Right. Yeah. I think it's a non-issue for us. Okay. And it should be just their choice. Yeah. I agree. Did we discuss the paint color of the porch rail? Is it stained or painted or as current? I think it'll be painted or trim color. It will be white. Yeah. Yeah. The same color as the trim are everywhere. It's the trim. Yeah. Same. Same as you've had. Yeah. We love the color of the house. It will be red and white. It is nice. It's a pretty classic. It's a pretty color. Yeah. Yeah.
Any further questions from the committee? For me. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I would say this looks beautiful, you guys. Yes. Thank you, Alec. Do you want a motion or do you want to close the hearing first? Close the hearing first, yeah. Motion to close the hearing? Motion to close the hearing first? Second. The hearing is closed.
We need a motion to consider the application there. That's right. To get up appropriateness. Yeah. I move that we accept the application as presented with the following changes.
The windows on the east south? No, north elevation. Mm-hmm. That's good. The addition. SK-15. SK-15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the stable end element are chained to two window units, two sash, with a defined division. Two window elements. To match. To match. To match the ones over the porch. Yeah. So two window element with a really defined division between the two to match the windows, the same proposed windows over the porch. Right. Okie dokie. But the porch deck is of their choice. Flooring. Flooring, sorry. Porch flooring of their choice. Yeah. The proposed gutters are, well, they're already, you already said they were gutters. We have to do that. Let's see other changes.
Does it make any sense for us to mention the fact that we spoke about the detail of the roof detail? The roof detail. The roof detail. Out of rubber and the asphalt is going to be, how it's going to be worked out. And, but that's, but would that be in the motion or would that be in the minutes? Yeah, it's probably just in the minutes. And the question is, this sort of circling back, do we want to, do we think that we need to see the solution before they start? Or is that something that they're going to have to deal with? Well, what do you feel about that as a group? I don't think we've ever done that before. No, I know. I think it's. The solution looks like the drawings is presented. Right. From the street. It'll be, exactly. It won't be a change. That would be the only thing that I would stipulate is that whatever solution is in keeping with the elevation drawing. Right. But if I do have to do a pyramidal something in the middle, then maybe we should know about that. Yeah. In fact, whatever solution they have, it won't look the way it looks now. It won't. They've got, they've got shingles coming up. Right. They've got a flat roof coming across. The flat roof has to somehow define itself, flash under the shingle. Right. The shingle has to terminate somehow. So it's a, it's a tricky little detail. Right. There are, there are several ways to do it. You could put a trim piece up there. You can put a metal trim piece up there. There's lots of different ways. Um, uh, you know, it's, you don't want it to leave. I'm not sure that what they've proposed shows that level of detail. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Yeah, exactly. And so, and so the motion to proceed with what they have proposed, I think we don't need to get into that level of detail. Yes. Okay. It feels like we're drilling down too far. I agree. Okay. Yeah. Unless you feel it's really going to be designed. We just speculate that if the roof line changes what we can see from the street, we need to know that. That's right. To see it again. Okay. Yeah. And, and if you, if they were necessary and it would be too bad for you not to come back, if there was a change that would make it better for you. Um, and I don't think it would be a big deal. Well, I mean, a brief hearing with us. I would, I would strongly consider roof drain. I mean, I know that Desmond is very against it, but there are thousands of commercial buildings with roof drains. So just consider it as an option. Yeah. Usually on flat roofs that are several hundred square feet in size. I guess it just seems to me that if you, if you've got pitch troops all around you. I think that I'm going to talk to the contractor about what he thinks might be a good approach after I figure out what I want. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just giving you my opinion. Yes. There might, this is just one more comment about that. There might be, um, a way to, um, have a sort of a slotted detail in the roof to, to make all the water run off the roof line on SK 16. Um, and then that's not visible from a public way. And so we wouldn't necessarily have any say.
Right. Right. You could, you could have the roof line terminate and allow that flat roof to drain off there. It's interesting. You say that Alex, because, uh, that, uh, copper gutter that I mentioned. Yeah. That's exactly where it is because, um, above the, um, you know, you can see the addition of the new bedroom there, but right now that's a, that's a gravel roof over the porch. And so you've got the 1860. You've got the 16 section on the right and the L on the, on the, on the, on the left. Yeah. That gutter comes right down there. It goes into a, uh, water barrel and then it drains off. Okay. So that is what exists now and it works perfectly fine. Yeah. So there, you know, there's some solutions there. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right. Which is why, which is why I'm suggesting we don't drill down too far into making a lot of stipulations around it. Um, yeah, um, I, I concur. I don't think we're asking for stipulations or just, we're just going to, we're just going to pick that out. Okay. So is this part of the motion or in the meeting minutes? It just, it just, as far as green agency. There are further components of your motion, Gretchen. I need to decide about the door. Oh, that's one other question. Is, is, is, I mean, is that the actual door you're talking about? Or are you just saying there's going to be a door with some lights on the top of it? well I mean I was thinking of that door basically it's kind of a common door you see a lot of people are doing it these days but um sort of Tudor-esque I think it's cottagey but it also kind of fits as the back door like we don't want to make it too fancy like front door you know yeah what were you thinking Gretchen I guess it was just with the uh double transom it was just thinking of transom and just do like a house to put this just like the panel door like if you need panel trying to get the light you get more light with it bigger okay what what's there now that I'm looking at the pictures I just can't see quite close enough uh there is that's just a black door yeah it's all it says it's all okay so it might be able to see a new photograph that's right there yeah I get I can see it in in one of the photographs it yeah yeah it just looks like a black hole very simple you know even for security and other reasons you need the window I think yeah yeah yeah okay I'm I'm taking it alone yeah I think the only changes that we're talking about it might be um the window and the table and are elevations yeah and that was yeah what and just to match those uh two windows yeah right that's all that makes it quite easy just matching those other two windows and then um uh the forged floor of their choice yeah but that's part of the plan anyways yeah you're right okay but maybe that doesn't need to be part of the motion yeah okay all right already good but it could be in the minutes but yeah definitely discussion is there is there something about composite wood that we're that we're making a a comment about or no no I guess I was just I was just saying that I was going to pull the pull the um spec down and send it to the to the architect um for her review really okay I get the reason I'm asking is because it says on like sk16 it says you know composite wood yeah right yeah yeah that was and so we are accepting that but if we're accepting the plants except for the changes we've said we're accepting the composite wood for us so all tramp you might rather use this other wood so maybe what we should have been in the motion is there have a choice of composite or something else uh yeah right okay so that they have the option okay so we'll put that in the motion yeah and you and you were thought thinking about all the trim that particularly as the addition any of the windows are being or if they smell would be trimmed in this whatever right your decision yes would you also have it I mean let's say you did go with the composite would you have uh the windows uh the casings uh we were just going to use the Pella 400 series that are vinyl on the outside and wood on the inside single divided light so no we wouldn't I mean because that would be some kind of a custom window I don't know okay well I guess you've got the distance so that yeah sorry to tell that yes the vinyl but I mean in the past we've not approved oh really and they have have the you and the storm windows over it too don't you uh on the 1816 section only on the 1860s the new section wall you had approved um when I would say last time you approved um Pella replacement windows for the L so there were 10 windows put in there close to the same windows that are that we're proposing that you're looking okay okay so it's consistent although I I say that um as I understand I was speaking with the Pella representative they have a historic uh what do they call them up it's a true divided night no not that it's um a Pella reserve is a new design they have that is uh period so that that those are the windows that we'd be using the Pella reserve so I'm a little concerned about their you know no longer right the reserve okay we put that in our spec yeah it's in the miscellaneous yeah historic etc that um sometimes the uh the muttons are way thicker than yeah what we would have in this period house but I think that's why they probably developed this um reserve window because I think they're more narrow okay yeah it's interesting is this is the spec for the window um it's calling out for exterior finish of um aluminum aluminum I was thinking it was the 400 series but we switched it yeah they were aluminum okay okay to my understanding that the the Pella reserve has um smaller because we were through this before the windows so the reason that um um that we did not put new windows in the 1816 section is because it's about a three-eighths inch flat and if you look at the original windows they come to a point I don't know if these reserve come to that that shop of a point yes right but I think they they're closer they're more historic so are you doing any kind of uh storm on these or no we don't need to no good yeah if they're single glazed they're not saying they're not single guys okay fine so is our motion complete uh I think it is I think we've just been discussing things you have to get a second so we move to a vote on the motion you know you might want to read I'll second it okay there you go and now you have a second okay um who made the motion to begin with I started okay Gretchen and first and Lynn second thank you second it okay those in favor of the motion say aye you have to call because you've got roll call on oh that's wrong you have people in line that do roll call okay so roll call okay March baston right paper Gretchen Schuler yes Greg yes Lynn yes Alex yes okay well that was unanimous okay okay great thank you yeah thanks so much for that nice presentation it's very exciting now yeah well I'll say two things not not sure who dropped off this presentation but thank you for doing that that was um it was on it was on my steps um and I look forward to seeing this I um I think this is going to be really great a great addition thank you Alex for looking for them for making it pretty you'll need to keep one of these for the record yeah yeah I'd like to get one copy of the rest you can hand back we will need one for the record this is for the record yeah okay okay thank you everybody nice to meet everybody nice to meet you nice to meet you guys too I would appreciate that you know when I figure out my details I'll send it to you thank you thanks a lot thanks for coming so the next meeting agenda topic was approving uh meeting minutes from the last meeting October 1st I sent them out and was there printed copy in front of you after all uh if I ens strategic and place and, yes. Uh, no and if I moved on if I bought by. Did we approve them get second. The minutes were wonderful. And um yeah I love the minutes. All those in favor of do we have to do this again for Alex yeah you have to uh well call for approving the meeting minutes from October 1st. Harris District ambassador field attorney, yes Alex yes. John Moore, yes I guess. Marjorie, yes. And Lin, yes. Thank you very much. What are the topics? Wait a minute, yes. No, just a minute. You know what I'm going to say about the minutes? One thing, one quick thing, very small, is just one little phrase I felt should be, when there was a discussion about the, let's see, discussion, but I have the wrong thing here. Basically, discussion about the gas system that was in front of my house that's going to be changed. It's going to be moved across the street. It's going to be totally across the street. And then it's going to be five or six feet from the edge of the road with balusters. And so I'm just going to insert a phrase that it was going to be moved across the street. That is all. Do you have an electronic version?
Actually, you sent out an electronic version. Oh, yeah, I did send out a word. Yes, I did. I think we're at it. Can we approve it with that change? No? Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah. I remember you bringing that up at the meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, that's the only change in the day at all. Okay. Not a big deal. No, I think it's fine. Everybody else? Yeah. Fine. Yeah, it's okay. Thank you. Yeah. Do you want to do the red lines, Marjorie, and send it to me? Then I'll send it to the town? Does that know? Or do you want me to make the change? Let me go and find out what the change was, and then I'll send it to you. It's very small. I mean, it really is. It just makes it clearer. Yes, right. But that's, you know, that's all.
Now. Are there any other agenda topics for tonight? I was going to raise an agenda topic, actually. Yeah. I have one, too. And so it's the presentation we had today.
Drawings were not great.
The ironism, I think, was still stellar. And the command of the detail of how it was put together, I don't think, was really there either. And so I guess my personal feeling is that the details do matter and that we do need to understand how things are going to look when they're put together. So I just want to just generally say that. There's no need to say that. Other words, it's just in the world. That's a good idea. But essentially, it was less than, it was a very early sketch. Well, maybe, let me add to the story and it will turn into a question of, well, when does someone come to the committee? This particular gentleman went through great strides to reach out early and he's been to this committee before, years ago. Right. And he wanted to make sure he was on the right path. 100%. And he hadn't done all the details yet. Yeah. You know, and I think this meeting was like, do you approve of that triple window? He did the right thing by coming early before he got too far down the road. I guess it's a chicken egg thing for me. And it gave us almost enough information to understand how it's going to look, but not quite enough, I felt. Just my feeling. In terms of detail. In terms of what the architect did. Right. Well, I've seen presentations where the specific door has been. Yes. Outlined where. And I thought that the drawings were sloppy. Yes. You know, I'm not the kind of architectural drawings I'm used to seeing, which are quite precise. Right. Right. But we got the gist of it. We did. But I guess my bigger point just was stepping back a bit. That was not the best presentation of an architectural idea I've seen in my life. Yeah, I would tend to agree. And yet, I walk this fine line between how much authority we really. Sure. It's a history. So I think we have the authority, but I think it's how much do you want them to have to spend on it. Yes. But you're right about the details. I mean, that's why we were asking, like, what are these windows really? Yeah. What are the, what is it? And what are the balusters going to be? Yes. Right. And she didn't know what the windows were. Yeah. Just to know how she's going to detail the roof. And the roof was really a surprise. Big detail. That is a very big deal. I'm not trying to throw anyone. No, it's all. I'm just saying that there's a certain level of elimination that we understand what we're looking at. Well, and if it comes out not looking like what we expect, then it's an issue. Right. Then it's our issue because we didn't. Right. We are. That's why one of those drawings. That's right. So it's, the idea of a drawing is that it gives great clarity as to what is going to be done. Right. That's the whole thing. Well, and you are a stickler for detail, which we know, Liam, we need an appreciation. Very much, a very high standard. Yes. Very high standard as far as architects. As I said, if I'm one of the best, I would to criticize another professional. I'm just saying that. I would want to see a much higher level. Do you think that he just didn't want to pay? No, I think they just were, what we saw was what we call the school of plenarious fees, which is just a sketch idea of what it could be. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. And we drew, I think the group here was able to draw out enough, everybody was able to ask enough intelligent questions to draw out. Get out what else was missing. But yeah, no, I see your point very clearly. And some of that, I was kind of surprised at how quickly the drawings were. I don't know. So it's just. Okay. Here's another issue that needs to be brought up. And it's one that involved Gretchen and I just before this meeting. The Collins Market 21 Conditurate Road is a proposed bistro, as we all know. Yes. And the ZBA has approved it. They have de-linked parking from any required parking at all. So they've basically said that the, because historically the building did not have its own parking. So they felt legally they could not have to require parking. So. Where, where do they tell? No idea. I did. Now, a couple of things, two things I need to tell you is in the application, the ZBA application, very nice gal who was doing it. And it's a wonderful, very full, complete application. She mentioned that she was going to be sending something to the historical commission, historical commission. And I know she meant historical district commission. Yeah. But then she went on to say that as far as the structure goes, she's going to have a patio and back with lights and dining and a pathway there from the front, right to the back with this and her other changes. A sign is going to be going in. And anyway, she quoted that a structure had, and for the ZBA, maybe a structure does not include pavement or walkways or anything like that. It does not. It does for us. All you have to do is go and look at our, our rules and regulations. And it's anything other than a building, including a walkway, a wall, any kind of hardscape, basically. So she does need to come before us and have it approved or whatever.
Now, the other thing that is so interesting about this, everybody in town seems to want it. It's, it's, it's very appealing to lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of people. Which was a, to the parking woes. As a resident next door, I had some reservations, but I do love the idea of reusing this historic building and, and, and it should be used. My big qualm is the parking, because I can't imagine how she's going to make it unless the parking is resolved. Now, the, uh, I had a conversation with a building commissioner in town who came to inspect some work at my house and we got talking and he said, well, you know, there is parking. The town does own land to the west of the depot parking lot. You're very familiar with that. It's town owned land. Uh, it's under the historic district. It's within, within the historic district. It's within the historic district. That doesn't mean it can't be used for parking. I'm not saying that, but just get ready. Cause this is coming down the road. Then on the other side of the street, Desmond, from the library, almost to Millbrook, some of that is all town owned land too. And a portion of it is under the historic district. So if it's used as parking within the historic district, how do we, they have to come, somebody has to come and decide that they're going to pave it and come before the historic district commission, the town. But how do we make land conforming to historic district standards? That to me is nearly impossible. Is parking in our jurisdiction? Yes. Yes. If it's visible from the public way. Don't forget. Our escape. Parking is our escape. So, but parking certainly was not an issue when these properties were built. Of course. Of course. Can we, let me just change it a little bit away from the parking part. Absolutely. Kristen wrote me an email. Kristen. Kristen. Kristen. Who's the phone who now owns Collins market. Yeah. Yeah. The entire thing. And I received it 10 minutes before that meeting started. Yeah. And she sent it to my personal home address email. Cause that's all she has. And it says, I hope you have a copy. I don't. It's online. And she says, um, our project manager, Alex, will be in touch with me shortly to discuss what the next steps are. Yeah. And she wants to talk about the view from the front, the ADA compliant. Yes. Right. Exactly. What do I tell her? Because we just had a discussion on how much detail. Right. Does she finish the design? Submit the ability application and we have a public hearing. So, and it's not the parking, it's for the ADA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, just to be clear, there's three stages of a drawing's life, right? Yeah. There's schematic design, design development, and construction documents.
What we saw tonight was none of those was three. Before that. Yeah. It was, it was, it was, it was schematic. Schematic design is all we really need to see in terms of. So we need a schematic design. Yeah. And I think they have. Big problem. Yeah. And she would then submit it and come to this committee. Yes. Yeah. What I recommend. Do we spell that, do we spell that out in our, in our, in our rules and regulations? Yes. No, no, we do not. In terms of, oh, I, how detailed the design has been. So that, I mean, are we, are we asking for something that they don't have any way of knowing? Like today, tonight, you know, they did a conceptual drawing, but we don't have any rules around what they should have brought. Well, that's right. We don't, um, exactly. We've always been, because we haven't had big cases. We've had little things here, little things there. And we haven't wanted them to have to hire an architect and go through, um, major drawings for something that is minor. Yeah. Well, I'm reflecting, I'm reflecting upon several patients we've had in the last five years. And the drawings have always, have all been, um, a mark above what we saw tonight. Yes. Yeah. I agree with that. But I mean, well, I have to go back, frankly. I don't know. I have to look at the design, the design guidelines and see what it says. And we're not asking them to detail down to the last screw. I guess I'm just trying, I just want to understand what they think it's going to look like. And you, you, uh, suggested they probably already have this. So that'll be a simple meeting because it's the structure of the house for Collins Market to be strip. Right. Yeah. They'll submit something to this committee. We'll have a meeting, uh, commission. Now bringing the parking back into the question. We don't have to. That's a separate application. Yes. We don't have to. I'm afraid that's their problem and the town's problem. But frankly, the town, if the town decides to make additional parking somewhere, they would have, and it's within the historic district, they would have to have it approved by us. Okay. Well, that's a separate. Yeah. Totally separate. Yeah.
And what about their signage? What about their what? Signage. Uh, we don't know yet what kind of a sign he wants. What I recommend you do, um, is to go to the ZBA website and it's right there. The application is how many pages is 25 or a hundred pages or whatever. It's very long. Which website? Uh, zoning board of appeals. Okay. Okay. ZBA. ZBA Wayland. And then we should go through, look for the applications for 2006. In 2026. 2026. And actually you want to look through both because she was, she has an application in 2025 that is much fuller. Right. So you want to. Should I suggest that she brings the signage to the same meeting or she want to do? That would be ideal. You have to. You have to. That was my question. She'll, I mean, she wants to open by the, by July. So yeah. Yeah. She should do it all in the same. This is great. Yeah. What I was trying to do is send you a link, Greg. Oh, okay. Yeah. She probably couldn't give the fact that it's an existing structure, but they've been making probably minimus changes. Yeah, they are. They're making almost no changes, but they are, as Marjorie said, there's going to be a path. You know, they're going to have to be accessible, handicapped accessible to get from the front of the building down the back to the terrace or the patio or whatever. Modern ADA requirements are overlapping with our historical needs. We have to deal with it. So, you had extra agenda topic one, which I've recorded. You had, this was topic two? This is definitely a topic that we need to be ready for. Ready for it. Yeah. Topic three. Nope. These are topic three. I'm trying to just think. Agenda items for tonight. I guess, John, can't think of anything right now. Do I have a motion to close the meeting? And I make a motion to close the meeting. I guess I can. Sure. I make a motion to close the meeting. Desmond already seconded it before it was made. Roll call to vote to close the meeting. Alex, kick it off with you. Yes. Alex, yes. Greg, yes. This is great. Desmond, yes. Greg, yes. Marjorie, yes. Thank you. If you handle that at 845, I think.
So we're proposing changing that. That's the big change. Um, the kitchen's a little small and we're having circulation problems. So that's why we wanted to make the addition here at the existing porch. And if you flip to drawing EX1 proposed, it will show where the first floor addition is going. First floor porch is wrapping around and a little section of another first floor, actually two-story addition there in the upper right corner behind the, the, um, fireplace. This was very helpful. It kind of gives you an idea of what's on top. My husband is, is a super architect and he has no problem at all, but I need this to see. This is the experience that really look at something carefully. So, so then when you turn to the next page, EX2, we have the second floor, um, which shows two existing bedrooms and an office and a bathroom and another there's, it's kind of difficult because if you can see the, um, there's a bathroom and a hallway in this stairway corridor and it's like halfway up, make sure we're on the same page with you. You're on the second, EX2, EX2, there you go back, go back one. Okay. Thank you. Keep going. Backing up. Keep going. One more. Okay. Two more, I think. Two more. Okay. Thank you. I need this. Okay. So thank you. So on, on this level, we have like in between levels of a yoga studio and a system bathroom and the, so that's a little bit confusing, but basically it's the addition, the, uh, two bedrooms in the old part of the house or the older part of the house and then a office and a bathroom in the, in the newer 1920 edition. And then where it says roof, that piece would come out and we're proposing putting the addition in there. So you can see on EX2, the proposed addition filled in that area in there. Then we can go to the real plans of what we're doing on each level. So on drawing SK-12, you're going to make an entrance, a few steps up in a, in a porch, a five foot porch wrapping around, um, and you come straight into an entry area that could expand. It expands the use of the kitchen. So the kitchen on the left has just been opened up and we have more space to walk around and circulate. And then you walk through the hall area there and we've reconfigured the staircase and eliminated the middle half levels. Um, so that's, that's floor one. So the thing that's a little bit complicated is on this floor, you can see it says entry and we have door and windows and the porch. Over the right hand side of the porch, it says line of second floor above. So the second floor extends over that porch that we need a big enough bedroom up there and a bathroom. Okay. So then we get up to the second floor and you can see that you only have some roof showing on the porch on SK 13, the front roof port of the porch is just on that one facade. And then the building wraps around on the, uh, um, above the porch below. And we include, um, have a new bathroom up here and we have a new, uh, staircase. So then, uh, on the site plan, you can see it's near the existing garage, but we have distance between, and there's no code requirements there for that anyway. Um, and you can see that this is Concord Ave on drawing SK 18, uh, in the most visible part of the house is the, the side facing Concord Ave and the front a bit in the back of it, but the rear side facing the garage is not visible from the street at all that we switched to what's not visible from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Almost. This, this. Uh, relation is not visible from the. Yeah. Okay. If I, yeah, you also have things in the way, so it'd be hard to see back there. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
So the orientation of the site plan, the plan is different. Okay. Right. That's correct. Yeah. The orientation of the plans aren't the same as the site plan. Okay.
Okay. So then moving on to the elevations, because the existing elevation on the top of your gauge drawing EX six with the proposed elevation of SK 17, on this elevation, this faces Concord Ave. This is the main, like the bend of the road. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And I could actually show you a photograph at the same time, but it's so clear. It's really not clear, right? So, uh, it's a picture, which you want to do. Um, not there. And I have that one. It's a question. And I like that. And that's right. Yeah. Like on this drawing, it's this, uh, or on this photograph, it's this side, and this is the main part of Concord. So for Concord Road. So on that elevation, the only change we're proposing is to make one of the windows a little bit shorter, similar to the existing windows. There's two windows on the first floor, right-hand side of the existing elevation. And we propose the third window is the same as those other two windows, because that's where we're going to put the kitchen counter.
So we're shortening up that one window.
It was odd. It was longer anyway. Right. In a way, yeah, that's going to match up.
We have a lot more interior space, which would be wonderful. Right. Are you guys ready for the next stage? Right. So that, that was, um, that was in my mind, kind of a minor adjustment to that elevation. The next elevation, we're changing a lot. So you can see on the top of the page, the existing house has that covered porch area and a, uh, a shed dormer that's in one of those weird mid-level places. And the, the dormer will be coming out, the porch will be coming out and we'll be adding a second floor all the way across, basically to the center of the chimney. Almost. So we're expanding the second floor out to there, to the edge of the chimney. And then we're putting a first floor roof for a porch. And then you'll walk underneath the second floor addition to get into the porch on the, on the right-hand side. So that is covered basically by the addition, which will be apparent in the next elevation. Yes. So then turn to page EX5, existing side elevation. Again, the porch on the left-hand side will be removed. The dormer will be removed on the upper left side of the existing house. And we're filling in with a, an addition on the second floor and, um, and recessing in a little bit on the first floor. So we have a porch that wraps on the first level. And for the roof, we're keeping the same roof lines and we're flattening out the roof in the middle of the big flat rubber, rubber roof to, um, so that we can keep our slopes matching the other slopes of the rest of the house around and existing slope situation. Um, and then we have our roof plan, which I'll explain that. So the existing flipping, you get to design EX3, and we have the existing roof plan of the house, which has the old part up at the top of the page and the newer part on the lower left side of the page. And then if you turn, you have the proposed roof plan, which shows the flat area and then picking up on the matching roof slopes around the house. Um, way, um, before we looked at the roof, we were, we were looking at the back view of the house, right? And that gives us the perspective that, um, while you're changing the roof to accommodate the interior changes, you're also maybe for the word correcting, is it right? But the current roof is a little wonky with some weird stuff. Yeah. So you're kind of bringing the slopes consistent, right? That, um, and you don't see any of that from the front of the house. You do not. Or the side, really. This is almost from a drone. Right. Right. You would never see the flat part ever. Right. Okay. Unless you're above it. Like that? Yeah. Yeah. But, um, and the property is elevated from content load. Exactly. It's a part to begin with. It's a quick question. Um, what are you doing for transition between the rubber roof and the shingle roof? That detail has not been worked out yet, but if you have any suggestions. It's a tricky one. Okay. Yeah. I didn't even know that, honestly. So, I mean, I know that people have done like gravel with like the metal edge, but we're thinking rubber. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, I haven't discussed this, but, um, when I went driving around, there's a yellow house, uh, right near the church, big yellow colonial. Yeah. And there's a church. Yeah. And there's, there's a dormer on the roof with three windows. And, um, cause I, I looked at the rubber, you know, I was just going, guess what you said? How are you going to transition that? It looks like what they did is they have like, um, two by six or whatever. That's white. And then the rubbers on that. And then, then it, the jingles. I was curious to see if you had a detail at all. Just understanding what the, it has a visual impact. That's all. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting that you asked, uh, Desmond now, I know this is out of our purview in a way, but I've, uh, sectioned a flat roof when they were adding onto my house and that's what I have trouble with is the flat. Does it leak? Is that, uh, yeah, that's the problem. Um, okay. Just, I mean, just get a solution in mind. Not yet. I'm going to work on that once it gets approved. Yeah. I haven't gotten that far into it. Our, our goal is to match the existing asphalt shingles for the, this part that we can say, but a 30 year shingled, you know, uh, well, are we replacing the whole thing? The entire, all the shingles will be replaced. Right. So you replace them with 30 or 40 year. Or 50 year shingles. Yeah.
Um, so, so then on SK 14, you can see even more, the problem of where the transition will be. Um, yeah, that whole big square. See the, the, the, the interesting thing about the problem is that what you'd really want to do is you'd want to terminate it with copper, have copper come up around. That would be nice. Forming a nice little edge along the, along it. But then you say to yourself, okay, so. Where's the water going? Where's the water going? Right. Because you want the water to go down here. Yeah. And here. So, um, I think it's worth able to exercise to understand what the, how that, how that's treated. Mm-hmm. It's dealt with. It's a tricky, tricky detail and you don't want to get it wrong because then you've got a leaky roof. Yeah, definitely not. Yeah. Could you, I'm sorry. Could you do, um, like a recessed rubber roof up there and then have a roof drain? Um, you could, yeah, you're dealing with another, you're dealing, you're dealing with bringing the water into the house now. Yeah. You're getting it out of the house. I would think in the realm of do no wrong or harm. You'd really, you'd really want to make sure you want to keep the water on the roof, draining the roof into the gutter system, which is the system that's devised to. What if you like made like kind of a pyramid, like, you know, a foot higher, you won't see it and then you could pitch it. Typically you pitch quarter inch per foot. Right. So, so. The path is there to see how much, how high it would be, what the impact would be visually. Right. You know, there's, there's, there's, there's several solutions, but it just seems to me that, um, within the realm of this typology, this type of architecture, um, the details of what make it work or not, the general gist of, of what you're laying out, you know, sure it makes, makes sense in terms of conforming with the, the typology of the, of the house, um, where it gets interesting, where you, where the solution works or not is, um, detail, how the bits and pieces go together. Right. That's what people pick up on. There's a, um, a historic building in Lexington called the Monroe Tavern, and they actually have this situation. So maybe I can get some information on how they did it. Sure. Yeah. Um, that, that's, that's the, the big thing to me with these kinds of, these types of buildings, some of this, this kind of addition to it, it's, the D, the details, what really makes it work. You know, another thing, uh, I'll say just a small thing is that, uh, I have to pay real attention to the gutters. It makes me sure they're cleaned. Yeah. Yeah. There's a group that's called, uh, Holy Suds. Love them. They come, they do a really good job with gutters and they want to come twice a year. Really? Well, I have huge pine trees over my house. What is that? I could be up in a ladder once a week cleaning my gutter. I could. Yeah. With a group that comes out quarterly. This is twice a year. And I think that's very short money. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's an important thing to keep, keep in mind. Cause that. So in terms of, sorry. Go ahead. I'm finished. Yeah. Sure. Well, it just keep those gutters clean. However, however it's done. And on a regular basis, that hire somebody like I'm going to hire this Holy Suds to come twice a year, all the time. I want to depend on them. I have that issue on the roof, the, the porch that's coming off. Oh, right. In the back there. There's a roof. That's a pretty flat. It's, it's not rubber. It's very old. And there's copper all the way around. And the copper rises up about an inch. Yeah. And there is a copper, a square copper gutter that's against the, the 1816 structure. And the gutter comes all the way around that. And the same thing. You've got to keep that gutter clean. You do. And, and I have to get out there with a rod. Yeah. Push it out because it'll just be compacted, you know. So what kind of material are you thinking of for the new gutters? If you're putting a new roof on, I assume you're putting a new gutter system on. So what am I thinking of for the materiality of that? The butter. Great. That's all. I'm going to throw out something else that I'm probably going to get myself into trouble for, but the historic district commission did approve for my barn because it was a real problem with the barn. It was part of the barn that was built after the civil war. And then there was a small part of the barn attached that was built as a tomb schoolhouse in 1750, then it was an old red storm. Anyway, so much water was coming off the main roof. It was going down to the smaller and rotting the sill on this very old structure. What they allowed me to do, and I was the first in the historic district commission to have it, was a metal gutter with a roof on it. I think it's called gutter helmet. I'm trying to know what it was called. But it's the same. Huh? Leaf guard? Well, leaf guard and gutter helmet. It's all one piece.
It's the barn, so you can't tell. And actually, it made it very neat and tidy, and they're quite large with very big down spouts, and I've never had to clean it. It has worked forever, and it's just been there. But I made the mistake of putting wood gutters on our house, which was a mistake. To be honest with you. I like mine. Except for one section. The wood gutter is lined with copper, right? No, I don't have any copper. Oh. Oil. Yeah, I'm afraid no copper lining in my wood gutter. Yeah, maybe that was part of the problem. Sorry, I must have missed. What was the material the gutters were being proposed? Copper. Copper. Okay. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You bet. I'm going to. I do. I have a few questions about the windows. Yeah. If we're done with the roof. Okay. Um, I guess, uh, we can look at, let's see, and elevation view. Uh, you know, I love what you did on SK-17 with making that third window the same size. Um, I'm interested to know about, uh, the change on SK-15 on the existing part of the house. You go from, uh, it looks like a single double-hung window to a triple. That's, yeah, it's a triple, and it's a little, it's small, like, flanked two smaller windows on one window that is kind of like the existing window that's there. Yep. And now it's just to let more light into that room. Yeah, I think it looks great, and as well, the, the detail, um, you know, the, where the door gets moved, and then the two windows beside it, um, it looks to be, yeah. Yeah, yeah, is, is the window in the EX-4, the one that's just above the roof there, is that a similar size to what you're proposing on SK-15? No, on SK-15, those are closer to the one that's existing on SK-4 in the single window on the, where we're replacing it with the triple. Okay, got it. That's like an existing bathroom window on one of the weird mid-levels. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. That's a very small window. That bathroom is, is actually between two floors. That's why it's so alive. So if you go back to SK-15, um, the new window proposal, uh, I think it's great to have more, more, more light in there. What I'm wondering about, though, is the, the division between the, the, the, the four-over-three and then the two-over-fours. Can I say that again? Uh, the division between, so you've got your new window. Your, your new window is, um, three-over-two, two-three-over-three stacked, and then beside it, uh, two-over-twos stacked. It would be interesting to see if we could get some more division between the two-over-twos and the three-over-twos. Okay. Like, like, uh, uh, four-over-of-three. More robust. So, like, a thicker separating. Yeah, yeah. Dividing. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would help you do that. Actually, I was squeezing that. And it would, it would, it would actually read more like the, like, the doubles you have. Yeah, right. Yeah. Can you, I think, I mean, turn this in. Yeah, I think so, too. We were trying to, um, keep, think, need space so we could put a closet in that bathroom. But I think you could move it over. We actually. We could also do just one double window. Even just two double. It's too sad. Not do that, do the triple. And then we'll have space to fit in the class if we wanted to. That might be nice. It might mirror what you're doing above the porch roof. Yeah. I think so. Right. You like that? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. I think, I think composition, it would just read. Yeah. So, two larger rather than the three, right? Rather than the triple, we'll just do two similar to the ones just over to the right side. Above the porch. The porch. Yep. Two larger. Right. That was my only bugaboo. Oh, good. Good. Oh. So, what is it? So, what are we doing here? So, we're going to take this window and make it like that right there. Great. That's great. And then, for the finishes, we're just matching everything. Same trim, same siding. We're proposing the porch floor be bluestone or granite. Oh. Yeah, because that's, I like bluestone or granite. I'm not opposed to composite wood. I don't, I think that that would be so difficult to read anyway, you know, from the road. You wouldn't see it in any. That I, I think you should add what you want there. Yeah. I would personally think you want to avoid composite wood every day. I know. I think it would be nicer to have this. The only wood I actually think is good that does something simpler to it is, there are, there are, there are wood products where they, they, they actually, temper is not the right word, but they, they, they treat the wood, the wood with steam and, and actual, it, it, it gives more durability to the, to the wood. I can, I can get the term, the appropriate term for it. Um, we were looking at, we were looking at it for a project down in Florida and, um, because it's, it's, it's just, it's robust. It doesn't, a huge amount of, it's essentially, it's, it's wood and all they've done is they, they treated it with steam and, um, a few other things that hasn't really changed. It is just given to the more robust, uh, characteristics. Mahogany kind of wood? Well, no, it doesn't matter. I think there's several different woods they use, um, but, um, um, there are, there are Brazilian, um, Brazilian, uh, rosewoods, um, not rosewoods, um, um, there's a Brazilian wood that, um, it makes, uh, it makes, uh, it makes, I pay, but it's, it's actually farmed. So it's not coming from old growth. So there's a couple of, there's a couple of options you have, but I think, I think the bluestone, the bluestone is fine. Well, yeah, as you, as you walk up in the driveway right now, uh, prior owner, I don't know how many years ago, but, um, there's very large slate panels and I'm just, yeah. It's a transition from the stone to the wood. Yeah. Yeah. It's the continuity, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Better.
Um, from concrete, or how would you do that? Just out of curiosity, uh, what, what's there now is, um, you know, little squares of the bathroom tile. Yeah. That's what a prior owner put it. It's treacherous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's gosh, I think it's quite perfect. Yeah. And it has it in probably 12 feet. It pitches about three inches and it's, it's really rare, very poorly done. Yeah. So that's going to have to be taken out and demoed and then, and then we will build up with, um, yeah, with maybe back belt for that. Yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, that's the disaster that it's, it's, it's dangerous actually. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like, yeah. Is, is this going to be slab construction or is there a basement? There is not a basement. I mean, there is a basement in part of the house, but we are planning on just a crawl space. It won't be slab. It'll be, um, it'll be like 18 inches of upgrade or something. Yeah. Right. Okay. And wood frame. And what? Wood frame. It is sure. Yeah. Yeah. The 1816 section has a full basement, but we're not trying to add basement space and we don't want to underpin anything. It's going to keep it up. So you're going to do something. Well, I, we could do a frost wall. Yeah. That's probably that's. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. We might have access to it from down there, but from the basement, but. A frost wall. Frost. Frost wall. Thank you. I'm taking the notes. Thank you. Frost. I have to admit, I'm, I'm agnostic about whether you, you have three small windows or two small, not one large. I think, uh, where are you? Oh, okay. Okay. So we can, we can decide that this will be at our discretion. Right. Exactly. Okay. But you, but you like the, the spacer bar. That's the thing. Okay. Yes. That's what this is. Well, I think we have to look at the size and say what we can. The closet of the house. What do I call it? The exits. Facing the facade. No, the right. The one facing Concord Road.
This space is Concord Road. Yeah. Right here. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And gutters are all, um, thing in the place as well. What are? Gutters. Not gutters. I said they're not stouts. Excuse me. Um, the gutters on, the gutters on the 1816 section are, are all fine. And downspouts are fine. Yeah. Um, there'll be all new gutters on the, right. Okay. And they're, they're copper on the existing. No, they're not. Okay. Oh, what are they? They're aluminum. Yeah. Okay. How about the posts for the porch roof? Mm-hmm. What are you planning there? Well. Simple lines or?
I, actually, we're planning on, I envision square, square, some trim, you know, some like federal style trim. Yeah. Yeah. What's existing now is six by six posts. Yeah. And so we were thinking about just doing the same thing. Right. Mm-hmm. So it would certainly be better. But you're going to make it simple, are you? It's going to be simple. And trim would be? Well, we'd have like a cap and a base. You would. It would be wood. It would be wood, probably a structure. No, no, you would do both. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yes. I'm not so sure it's necessary to have base, you know, define bases. Well, I mean, in this period, in this kind of a house. Yeah. You don't think they would have a base? You can. If it's simple. Yeah. Yeah. It could be simple. For the trim, though, I said we were doing the same materials, but I think we would probably want to use composite wood in the same process. I suggest there's some other materials out there I can send you some. Yeah. Okay. Great.
Can you say composite wood? What do you mean? Is it? Is that? Thermal wood? Is that the term we're looking for? Thermal wood? Right. Yes. And who just fell that? That's not ASAC. That's not ASAC. It's a thermal wood. It's real wood. ASAC. Okay. Sure, it's been around forever. It's been created. Right. But it's real wood, which is, I think, the important thing. I've used ASAC. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. It does. None of those plastic-based materials retain dimensional stability. Right. They just don't. Yeah. They get moldy. It's not good. I would not use that. Do you have a recommendation that was something other than that? That's what he's going to send to us. Okay. Thermal wood. Yeah. That's intense. Thermal? Thermal, yeah. And you can tie that down to. Thermal wood. It's steam-treated wood. I want to buy some, too. I think that everybody's saying this right, but it's thermo, like N's in O. It ends in O. Okay. Yeah. I'll pull you out. Not thermal. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. I can pull the spec tab for you, too. Thank you. Somebody's going to have to correct my minutes.
It's dribbling stuff, too. I can't read my handwriting. No problem. I guess my next question would be about the railing and balusters. You know, I'm assuming. Simple. Simple. Yeah. Just simple square baluster and one-inch squares. Like a farmhouse. Yeah. Great. That's exactly right. Yeah.
I think it's important that we ask, because you'll be able to see it. But so much nicer than it's there now. Oh, yeah. It'll look a lot earlier.
This looks very good. And the door has six lights over one single panel? Over a wood panel. Raised panel. Right. Raised panel, yes.
This is the main door. Oh, here it is here. Yeah. Fifteen. The door has a single panel. Right. Calls. They're going to be posted. Yeah. Calls. And the same, like, we were saying. Did you say it had a raised panel? Maybe it's a panel below six light. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, we're not talking about any orders here. Yeah. All right. Yeah. No, I know. That's what it shouldn't be. I was just saying that, especially because they're all square, the posts are square and the balusters are square, that they shouldn't be trimmed out really at all. Thank you very much. It's just like a cap and a base, but on the columns. It's very, very simple. It's very, very simple. No other trim. Yeah. You were just saying there's no order. You're not talking about putting a door of order column. No. No. No. Yeah. All right. All right. So the changes we've talked about now are the windows, the trim, a little bit, using thermo, but I mean, anyway. Talked about the gutters. We talked about the roof. We talked about a lot of things, but I'm thinking of changes in the proposal that we will need to have. Yeah, because here we have three windows proposed, and that's changed to two. That would need to go into the certificate of appropriateness. So just the changes, if we approve what has been proposed and then list the changes. Changes, sir. Okay. We do. In my note-taking, it wasn't clear to me when we do this, the porch deck material, it's not visible from the street. We've made many recommendations. Are we going to say it's up to you, whatever you put down? Or are we going to say this, this, this, or that? Depends how we model the motion. My feeling is that I shouldn't, I mean, it may be minimally visible. I don't think it's going to have an impact on that. I will say that I drive by Don and Barrett's house every day, and I cannot see their porch. Yes. The floor. There you go. Especially when you're in Toronto or. Yeah, exactly. Well, and I drive a pickup truck. So I've got a pretty elevated view. Right. Yeah. I think it's a non-issue for us. Okay. And it should be just their choice. Yeah. I agree. Did we discuss the paint color of the porch rail? Is it stained or painted or as current? I think it'll be painted or trim color. It will be white. Yeah. Yeah. The same color as the trim are everywhere. It's the trim. Yeah. Same. Same as you've had. Yeah. We love the color of the house. It will be red and white. It is nice. It's a pretty classic. It's a pretty color. Yeah. Yeah.
Any further questions from the committee? For me. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I would say this looks beautiful, you guys. Yes. Thank you, Alec. Do you want a motion or do you want to close the hearing first? Close the hearing first, yeah. Motion to close the hearing? Motion to close the hearing first? Second. The hearing is closed.
We need a motion to consider the application there. That's right. To get up appropriateness. Yeah. I move that we accept the application as presented with the following changes.
The windows on the east south? No, north elevation. Mm-hmm. That's good. The addition. SK-15. SK-15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the stable end element are chained to two window units, two sash, with a defined division. Two window elements. To match. To match. To match the ones over the porch. Yeah. So two window element with a really defined division between the two to match the windows, the same proposed windows over the porch. Right. Okie dokie. But the porch deck is of their choice. Flooring. Flooring, sorry. Porch flooring of their choice. Yeah. The proposed gutters are, well, they're already, you already said they were gutters. We have to do that. Let's see other changes.
Does it make any sense for us to mention the fact that we spoke about the detail of the roof detail? The roof detail. The roof detail. Out of rubber and the asphalt is going to be, how it's going to be worked out. And, but that's, but would that be in the motion or would that be in the minutes? Yeah, it's probably just in the minutes. And the question is, this sort of circling back, do we want to, do we think that we need to see the solution before they start? Or is that something that they're going to have to deal with? Well, what do you feel about that as a group? I don't think we've ever done that before. No, I know. I think it's. The solution looks like the drawings is presented. Right. From the street. It'll be, exactly. It won't be a change. That would be the only thing that I would stipulate is that whatever solution is in keeping with the elevation drawing. Right. But if I do have to do a pyramidal something in the middle, then maybe we should know about that. Yeah. In fact, whatever solution they have, it won't look the way it looks now. It won't. They've got, they've got shingles coming up. Right. They've got a flat roof coming across. The flat roof has to somehow define itself, flash under the shingle. Right. The shingle has to terminate somehow. So it's a, it's a tricky little detail. Right. There are, there are several ways to do it. You could put a trim piece up there. You can put a metal trim piece up there. There's lots of different ways. Um, uh, you know, it's, you don't want it to leave. I'm not sure that what they've proposed shows that level of detail. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Yeah, exactly. And so, and so the motion to proceed with what they have proposed, I think we don't need to get into that level of detail. Yes. Okay. It feels like we're drilling down too far. I agree. Okay. Yeah. Unless you feel it's really going to be designed. We just speculate that if the roof line changes what we can see from the street, we need to know that. That's right. To see it again. Okay. Yeah. And, and if you, if they were necessary and it would be too bad for you not to come back, if there was a change that would make it better for you. Um, and I don't think it would be a big deal. Well, I mean, a brief hearing with us. I would, I would strongly consider roof drain. I mean, I know that Desmond is very against it, but there are thousands of commercial buildings with roof drains. So just consider it as an option. Yeah. Usually on flat roofs that are several hundred square feet in size. I guess it just seems to me that if you, if you've got pitch troops all around you. I think that I'm going to talk to the contractor about what he thinks might be a good approach after I figure out what I want. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just giving you my opinion. Yes. There might, this is just one more comment about that. There might be, um, a way to, um, have a sort of a slotted detail in the roof to, to make all the water run off the roof line on SK 16. Um, and then that's not visible from a public way. And so we wouldn't necessarily have any say.
Right. Right. You could, you could have the roof line terminate and allow that flat roof to drain off there. It's interesting. You say that Alex, because, uh, that, uh, copper gutter that I mentioned. Yeah. That's exactly where it is because, um, above the, um, you know, you can see the addition of the new bedroom there, but right now that's a, that's a gravel roof over the porch. And so you've got the 1860. You've got the 16 section on the right and the L on the, on the, on the, on the left. Yeah. That gutter comes right down there. It goes into a, uh, water barrel and then it drains off. Okay. So that is what exists now and it works perfectly fine. Yeah. So there, you know, there's some solutions there. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right. Which is why, which is why I'm suggesting we don't drill down too far into making a lot of stipulations around it. Um, yeah, um, I, I concur. I don't think we're asking for stipulations or just, we're just going to, we're just going to pick that out. Okay. So is this part of the motion or in the meeting minutes? It just, it just, as far as green agency. There are further components of your motion, Gretchen. I need to decide about the door. Oh, that's one other question. Is, is, is, I mean, is that the actual door you're talking about? Or are you just saying there's going to be a door with some lights on the top of it? well I mean I was thinking of that door basically it's kind of a common door you see a lot of people are doing it these days but um sort of Tudor-esque I think it's cottagey but it also kind of fits as the back door like we don't want to make it too fancy like front door you know yeah what were you thinking Gretchen I guess it was just with the uh double transom it was just thinking of transom and just do like a house to put this just like the panel door like if you need panel trying to get the light you get more light with it bigger okay what what's there now that I'm looking at the pictures I just can't see quite close enough uh there is that's just a black door yeah it's all it says it's all okay so it might be able to see a new photograph that's right there yeah I get I can see it in in one of the photographs it yeah yeah it just looks like a black hole very simple you know even for security and other reasons you need the window I think yeah yeah yeah okay I'm I'm taking it alone yeah I think the only changes that we're talking about it might be um the window and the table and are elevations yeah and that was yeah what and just to match those uh two windows yeah right that's all that makes it quite easy just matching those other two windows and then um uh the forged floor of their choice yeah but that's part of the plan anyways yeah you're right okay but maybe that doesn't need to be part of the motion yeah okay all right already good but it could be in the minutes but yeah definitely discussion is there is there something about composite wood that we're that we're making a a comment about or no no I guess I was just I was just saying that I was going to pull the pull the um spec down and send it to the to the architect um for her review really okay I get the reason I'm asking is because it says on like sk16 it says you know composite wood yeah right yeah yeah that was and so we are accepting that but if we're accepting the plants except for the changes we've said we're accepting the composite wood for us so all tramp you might rather use this other wood so maybe what we should have been in the motion is there have a choice of composite or something else uh yeah right okay so that they have the option okay so we'll put that in the motion yeah and you and you were thought thinking about all the trim that particularly as the addition any of the windows are being or if they smell would be trimmed in this whatever right your decision yes would you also have it I mean let's say you did go with the composite would you have uh the windows uh the casings uh we were just going to use the Pella 400 series that are vinyl on the outside and wood on the inside single divided light so no we wouldn't I mean because that would be some kind of a custom window I don't know okay well I guess you've got the distance so that yeah sorry to tell that yes the vinyl but I mean in the past we've not approved oh really and they have have the you and the storm windows over it too don't you uh on the 1816 section only on the 1860s the new section wall you had approved um when I would say last time you approved um Pella replacement windows for the L so there were 10 windows put in there close to the same windows that are that we're proposing that you're looking okay okay so it's consistent although I I say that um as I understand I was speaking with the Pella representative they have a historic uh what do they call them up it's a true divided night no not that it's um a Pella reserve is a new design they have that is uh period so that that those are the windows that we'd be using the Pella reserve so I'm a little concerned about their you know no longer right the reserve okay we put that in our spec yeah it's in the miscellaneous yeah historic etc that um sometimes the uh the muttons are way thicker than yeah what we would have in this period house but I think that's why they probably developed this um reserve window because I think they're more narrow okay yeah it's interesting is this is the spec for the window um it's calling out for exterior finish of um aluminum aluminum I was thinking it was the 400 series but we switched it yeah they were aluminum okay okay to my understanding that the the Pella reserve has um smaller because we were through this before the windows so the reason that um um that we did not put new windows in the 1816 section is because it's about a three-eighths inch flat and if you look at the original windows they come to a point I don't know if these reserve come to that that shop of a point yes right but I think they they're closer they're more historic so are you doing any kind of uh storm on these or no we don't need to no good yeah if they're single glazed they're not saying they're not single guys okay fine so is our motion complete uh I think it is I think we've just been discussing things you have to get a second so we move to a vote on the motion you know you might want to read I'll second it okay there you go and now you have a second okay um who made the motion to begin with I started okay Gretchen and first and Lynn second thank you second it okay those in favor of the motion say aye you have to call because you've got roll call on oh that's wrong you have people in line that do roll call okay so roll call okay March baston right paper Gretchen Schuler yes Greg yes Lynn yes Alex yes okay well that was unanimous okay okay great thank you yeah thanks so much for that nice presentation it's very exciting now yeah well I'll say two things not not sure who dropped off this presentation but thank you for doing that that was um it was on it was on my steps um and I look forward to seeing this I um I think this is going to be really great a great addition thank you Alex for looking for them for making it pretty you'll need to keep one of these for the record yeah yeah I'd like to get one copy of the rest you can hand back we will need one for the record this is for the record yeah okay okay thank you everybody nice to meet everybody nice to meet you nice to meet you guys too I would appreciate that you know when I figure out my details I'll send it to you thank you thanks a lot thanks for coming so the next meeting agenda topic was approving uh meeting minutes from the last meeting October 1st I sent them out and was there printed copy in front of you after all uh if I ens strategic and place and, yes. Uh, no and if I moved on if I bought by. Did we approve them get second. The minutes were wonderful. And um yeah I love the minutes. All those in favor of do we have to do this again for Alex yeah you have to uh well call for approving the meeting minutes from October 1st. Harris District ambassador field attorney, yes Alex yes. John Moore, yes I guess. Marjorie, yes. And Lin, yes. Thank you very much. What are the topics? Wait a minute, yes. No, just a minute. You know what I'm going to say about the minutes? One thing, one quick thing, very small, is just one little phrase I felt should be, when there was a discussion about the, let's see, discussion, but I have the wrong thing here. Basically, discussion about the gas system that was in front of my house that's going to be changed. It's going to be moved across the street. It's going to be totally across the street. And then it's going to be five or six feet from the edge of the road with balusters. And so I'm just going to insert a phrase that it was going to be moved across the street. That is all. Do you have an electronic version?
Actually, you sent out an electronic version. Oh, yeah, I did send out a word. Yes, I did. I think we're at it. Can we approve it with that change? No? Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah. I remember you bringing that up at the meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, that's the only change in the day at all. Okay. Not a big deal. No, I think it's fine. Everybody else? Yeah. Fine. Yeah, it's okay. Thank you. Yeah. Do you want to do the red lines, Marjorie, and send it to me? Then I'll send it to the town? Does that know? Or do you want me to make the change? Let me go and find out what the change was, and then I'll send it to you. It's very small. I mean, it really is. It just makes it clearer. Yes, right. But that's, you know, that's all.
Now. Are there any other agenda topics for tonight? I was going to raise an agenda topic, actually. Yeah. I have one, too. And so it's the presentation we had today.
Drawings were not great.
The ironism, I think, was still stellar. And the command of the detail of how it was put together, I don't think, was really there either. And so I guess my personal feeling is that the details do matter and that we do need to understand how things are going to look when they're put together. So I just want to just generally say that. There's no need to say that. Other words, it's just in the world. That's a good idea. But essentially, it was less than, it was a very early sketch. Well, maybe, let me add to the story and it will turn into a question of, well, when does someone come to the committee? This particular gentleman went through great strides to reach out early and he's been to this committee before, years ago. Right. And he wanted to make sure he was on the right path. 100%. And he hadn't done all the details yet. Yeah. You know, and I think this meeting was like, do you approve of that triple window? He did the right thing by coming early before he got too far down the road. I guess it's a chicken egg thing for me. And it gave us almost enough information to understand how it's going to look, but not quite enough, I felt. Just my feeling. In terms of detail. In terms of what the architect did. Right. Well, I've seen presentations where the specific door has been. Yes. Outlined where. And I thought that the drawings were sloppy. Yes. You know, I'm not the kind of architectural drawings I'm used to seeing, which are quite precise. Right. Right. But we got the gist of it. We did. But I guess my bigger point just was stepping back a bit. That was not the best presentation of an architectural idea I've seen in my life. Yeah, I would tend to agree. And yet, I walk this fine line between how much authority we really. Sure. It's a history. So I think we have the authority, but I think it's how much do you want them to have to spend on it. Yes. But you're right about the details. I mean, that's why we were asking, like, what are these windows really? Yeah. What are the, what is it? And what are the balusters going to be? Yes. Right. And she didn't know what the windows were. Yeah. Just to know how she's going to detail the roof. And the roof was really a surprise. Big detail. That is a very big deal. I'm not trying to throw anyone. No, it's all. I'm just saying that there's a certain level of elimination that we understand what we're looking at. Well, and if it comes out not looking like what we expect, then it's an issue. Right. Then it's our issue because we didn't. Right. We are. That's why one of those drawings. That's right. So it's, the idea of a drawing is that it gives great clarity as to what is going to be done. Right. That's the whole thing. Well, and you are a stickler for detail, which we know, Liam, we need an appreciation. Very much, a very high standard. Yes. Very high standard as far as architects. As I said, if I'm one of the best, I would to criticize another professional. I'm just saying that. I would want to see a much higher level. Do you think that he just didn't want to pay? No, I think they just were, what we saw was what we call the school of plenarious fees, which is just a sketch idea of what it could be. Yeah. Yeah. And I think. And we drew, I think the group here was able to draw out enough, everybody was able to ask enough intelligent questions to draw out. Get out what else was missing. But yeah, no, I see your point very clearly. And some of that, I was kind of surprised at how quickly the drawings were. I don't know. So it's just. Okay. Here's another issue that needs to be brought up. And it's one that involved Gretchen and I just before this meeting. The Collins Market 21 Conditurate Road is a proposed bistro, as we all know. Yes. And the ZBA has approved it. They have de-linked parking from any required parking at all. So they've basically said that the, because historically the building did not have its own parking. So they felt legally they could not have to require parking. So. Where, where do they tell? No idea. I did. Now, a couple of things, two things I need to tell you is in the application, the ZBA application, very nice gal who was doing it. And it's a wonderful, very full, complete application. She mentioned that she was going to be sending something to the historical commission, historical commission. And I know she meant historical district commission. Yeah. But then she went on to say that as far as the structure goes, she's going to have a patio and back with lights and dining and a pathway there from the front, right to the back with this and her other changes. A sign is going to be going in. And anyway, she quoted that a structure had, and for the ZBA, maybe a structure does not include pavement or walkways or anything like that. It does not. It does for us. All you have to do is go and look at our, our rules and regulations. And it's anything other than a building, including a walkway, a wall, any kind of hardscape, basically. So she does need to come before us and have it approved or whatever.
Now, the other thing that is so interesting about this, everybody in town seems to want it. It's, it's, it's very appealing to lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of people. Which was a, to the parking woes. As a resident next door, I had some reservations, but I do love the idea of reusing this historic building and, and, and it should be used. My big qualm is the parking, because I can't imagine how she's going to make it unless the parking is resolved. Now, the, uh, I had a conversation with a building commissioner in town who came to inspect some work at my house and we got talking and he said, well, you know, there is parking. The town does own land to the west of the depot parking lot. You're very familiar with that. It's town owned land. Uh, it's under the historic district. It's within, within the historic district. It's within the historic district. That doesn't mean it can't be used for parking. I'm not saying that, but just get ready. Cause this is coming down the road. Then on the other side of the street, Desmond, from the library, almost to Millbrook, some of that is all town owned land too. And a portion of it is under the historic district. So if it's used as parking within the historic district, how do we, they have to come, somebody has to come and decide that they're going to pave it and come before the historic district commission, the town. But how do we make land conforming to historic district standards? That to me is nearly impossible. Is parking in our jurisdiction? Yes. Yes. If it's visible from the public way. Don't forget. Our escape. Parking is our escape. So, but parking certainly was not an issue when these properties were built. Of course. Of course. Can we, let me just change it a little bit away from the parking part. Absolutely. Kristen wrote me an email. Kristen. Kristen. Kristen. Who's the phone who now owns Collins market. Yeah. Yeah. The entire thing. And I received it 10 minutes before that meeting started. Yeah. And she sent it to my personal home address email. Cause that's all she has. And it says, I hope you have a copy. I don't. It's online. And she says, um, our project manager, Alex, will be in touch with me shortly to discuss what the next steps are. Yeah. And she wants to talk about the view from the front, the ADA compliant. Yes. Right. Exactly. What do I tell her? Because we just had a discussion on how much detail. Right. Does she finish the design? Submit the ability application and we have a public hearing. So, and it's not the parking, it's for the ADA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, just to be clear, there's three stages of a drawing's life, right? Yeah. There's schematic design, design development, and construction documents.
What we saw tonight was none of those was three. Before that. Yeah. It was, it was, it was, it was schematic. Schematic design is all we really need to see in terms of. So we need a schematic design. Yeah. And I think they have. Big problem. Yeah. And she would then submit it and come to this committee. Yes. Yeah. What I recommend. Do we spell that, do we spell that out in our, in our, in our rules and regulations? Yes. No, no, we do not. In terms of, oh, I, how detailed the design has been. So that, I mean, are we, are we asking for something that they don't have any way of knowing? Like today, tonight, you know, they did a conceptual drawing, but we don't have any rules around what they should have brought. Well, that's right. We don't, um, exactly. We've always been, because we haven't had big cases. We've had little things here, little things there. And we haven't wanted them to have to hire an architect and go through, um, major drawings for something that is minor. Yeah. Well, I'm reflecting, I'm reflecting upon several patients we've had in the last five years. And the drawings have always, have all been, um, a mark above what we saw tonight. Yes. Yeah. I agree with that. But I mean, well, I have to go back, frankly. I don't know. I have to look at the design, the design guidelines and see what it says. And we're not asking them to detail down to the last screw. I guess I'm just trying, I just want to understand what they think it's going to look like. And you, you, uh, suggested they probably already have this. So that'll be a simple meeting because it's the structure of the house for Collins Market to be strip. Right. Yeah. They'll submit something to this committee. We'll have a meeting, uh, commission. Now bringing the parking back into the question. We don't have to. That's a separate application. Yes. We don't have to. I'm afraid that's their problem and the town's problem. But frankly, the town, if the town decides to make additional parking somewhere, they would have, and it's within the historic district, they would have to have it approved by us. Okay. Well, that's a separate. Yeah. Totally separate. Yeah.
And what about their signage? What about their what? Signage. Uh, we don't know yet what kind of a sign he wants. What I recommend you do, um, is to go to the ZBA website and it's right there. The application is how many pages is 25 or a hundred pages or whatever. It's very long. Which website? Uh, zoning board of appeals. Okay. Okay. ZBA. ZBA Wayland. And then we should go through, look for the applications for 2006. In 2026. 2026. And actually you want to look through both because she was, she has an application in 2025 that is much fuller. Right. So you want to. Should I suggest that she brings the signage to the same meeting or she want to do? That would be ideal. You have to. You have to. That was my question. She'll, I mean, she wants to open by the, by July. So yeah. Yeah. She should do it all in the same. This is great. Yeah. What I was trying to do is send you a link, Greg. Oh, okay. Yeah. She probably couldn't give the fact that it's an existing structure, but they've been making probably minimus changes. Yeah, they are. They're making almost no changes, but they are, as Marjorie said, there's going to be a path. You know, they're going to have to be accessible, handicapped accessible to get from the front of the building down the back to the terrace or the patio or whatever. Modern ADA requirements are overlapping with our historical needs. We have to deal with it. So, you had extra agenda topic one, which I've recorded. You had, this was topic two? This is definitely a topic that we need to be ready for. Ready for it. Yeah. Topic three. Nope. These are topic three. I'm trying to just think. Agenda items for tonight. I guess, John, can't think of anything right now. Do I have a motion to close the meeting? And I make a motion to close the meeting. I guess I can. Sure. I make a motion to close the meeting. Desmond already seconded it before it was made. Roll call to vote to close the meeting. Alex, kick it off with you. Yes. Alex, yes. Greg, yes. This is great. Desmond, yes. Greg, yes. Marjorie, yes. Thank you. If you handle that at 845, I think.