March 4, 2026 – Historical Commission – Video & Transcript
March 4, 2026 - Historical Commission
Suant to chapter two of the acts of 2025,
this meeting will be conducted in person
and or via remote access in accordance with applicable law.
If this meeting has only remote access,
no in-person attendance by members
or the public will be permitted.
If this meeting has remote access,
one may watch or participate remotely
with the meeting link that can be found at wayland.mass.us.
When required by law or allowed by the chair,
persons wishing to provide public comment
or otherwise participate in the meeting,
they do so at the meeting location
and public comment should be limited
to two minutes per person, okay?
So let us proceed with the minutes
from last month's meeting.
Yes, you were. You came in so quietly, I just threw you.
Yes, thank you. Thank you for coming. Are you wishing at some point to have something to say? I'm going to make a public comment. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Yes, let's do it now. My name is Doug Stotts. I live at Turning Tank. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information about the promise pieces of our district, 1743. I want to be sure of the bridge. I want to please report that the mainland is a sub-grade DP.DOT.U. So fishing and mass offers such a distensation. It needs a steel-back wooden guard rail, in place of a steel guard rail on the last test of a single that's on the bridge. And with that special distensation being resolved, I think we have a current design for the bridge that just about makes it just about as historically authentic and character as the bridge that's been there since 1992. That's good news. That's great. Excellent. I want an update. As you know, the Fishnet's article's deadline was January 8th. There was still a lot more on that. We must find this . And so on January 8th, I submitted the Fishnet's article that the public will be the annual town meeting of laws and regulations that was going to be in the law. And that article reads this. German's Bridge is to be forever maintained and entirely with the practical, in keeping with its historical appearance in 1743. No structural metal material is left anywhere in the bridge structure, while metal fastenings are acceptable. Any metal crash barriers, guard routes, et cetera, must be entirely covered by wood to maintain the historical appearance and character. Any exposed wearing surface on the roadway shall be exposed solely with natural, not inferior to wood, but no other material is acceptable. That's the end of the article. I want to let the commission know there will be favorable developments on the bridge design. There's a question of, you know, whether I would draw the article on fire. The historical commission thinks this is a good idea and to have historical records on the issue services again, around the year, you know, 65 or so. We're all on record. Or whether you'd like to compose a similar article of your own devising for submission after annual accounting 127, the urgency you could have done right away, perhaps not the verbal a couple months ago, but I'll put that in the picture. My final points are that while the verbal expressions that current bridge divide make me believe the design is acceptable, as we've learned with the infamous 1971 nature of the agreement and other issues, it always makes sense to get it in the right. So perhaps the Whelan Historical Commission, perhaps the working of the Sudbury and Whelan may want to consider sending a letter to the municipal project team of the Sudbury and Whelan DPWs, asking you and perhaps the Sudbury Commission to formally can fail in a letter of the bridge's proposed design elements, and also three items, which are not any set of plans that they submitted to MassDOT in May, February, for the final approval, but which I think are important both to the outcome of the bridge overall and to its historical design and character. The first of those would be the historic kiosk, which they said they will do in collaboration with the Cadillac Parks and Sudbury. That's to be on the way inside of the bridge. A very nice enhancement, which both DPW directors started to promise, but isn't yet in the plans, is to put a conduit on the underside of the bridge during reconstruction. So the current fiber optic lines, the Whelan and Comcast and Verizon, can be moved out the telephone poles on either end of the bridge, can be ratted into the conduit and make the view ahead a lot better. Important to note, I think too, it's actually pretty simple to do that, because as those of us who literally have lived at the end of the line, pretty interesting, we now have it generated because of it. We are the end of the line for Boston Edison. That's just how long I've been here. I didn't know it ever sourcing.
And no 13,000-volt power lines go over there. It's just the fiber optics or internet cable. And then the final point, and it's very interesting, there's, you know, a lot of people look at the sky with the river Borealis like it starts off the bridge. And there's currently a 1992 streetlight on the pole on the sun gray side, which does not look historic at all. And it would be wonderful to have that replaced with a low profile, modern, energy of kitchen, dark sky, and light speedlight. And interestingly, I found out this morning that as of January 1st, Matt Scott, including the mandator, used only dark sky and light light pictures that have behind us. So it was with me, even somewhere reaching my suggestions, please request the historical commission. But overall, I'm also pleased to report that it's been very, very favorable products. I'm a good product. Good. Any questions for Doug? Doug, I guess I won the town article. It's interesting and it sounds like a good idea. What would happen though, if say Wayland adopted it, but Sudbury doesn't, then what happens? Well, everything needs to be done by a unanimous vote of the two panels. So I guess Sudbury is wrong. You know, Wayland does veto power. Oh, okay. Okay. I guess I'm wondering what's more effective to have town article or to have the two respective DPWs enter into some sort of agreement? I think the town article expresses the responsibility of our employees to deal with more effective. Okay. Thank you. Do you have a copy of the article? Uh, I can give you my notes. Yeah. For, well, we were looking for it, for the, put in our archive, our archives, that I'm all, and it's easier also for us to critique, if we can actually see what's on the papers. Okay. You can email that into the book, Mitch. Okay. That was great. And I'd also see that does clear talking about a submission to the archives that might be useful to somebody, to see what's in the book. You never know. We have bad feelings. It's great. Okay. Thank you for all your work on this. So good. Thank you. Incredible. And very time-consuming, as we all know. So we appreciate what you've done. And your team, and your neighbors, and everybody else. That's great. Thank you. Okay, well. Nothing else I wish you all had good. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Do we need any most of the letter requested? Right. Is there discussion on us sending a letter to the municipal project team concerning these three details? Could you talk a little bit louder? Yep. Thank you. Is there any discussion on his request that the commission send a letter to the municipal project team? I think it would be nice to do, to follow up on all of Doug's work. And to have a record in our file. And in writing from the team. I don't know what other people think. The three issues are the kiosk, which has been talked about and agreed upon verbally, but not in writing. The conduit for under the bridge, for the fiber optics. And replacing the 1993 street light with a dark sky component or bulb. So those are the three areas that apparently have been discussed and agreed to, but have not been written into the details of the plan at this point. Well, I mean, some of them aren't specifically historical in nature, right? So, but I would, I would like to get something in writing from them. So maybe how we craft the email or the letter. Okay. I think you could, or you could argue that all three are, have a historic angle to them. Certainly the kiosk, the conduit would restore some of the historic. That one, yes, I agree. Ambiance of the bridge. Yes, yes. The wires out of the skyline. I agree.
And the third. Well, if the third is already in law, is that what you said? We're already in law. I just said it's a reminder. Yeah. Maybe it looks like it was a lot of historic. Thank you, sir. Reminders. That's right. But.
Well, if our group feels such, I think we should have a motion to make it official in our minutes.
Would anyone? So moved. Okay. Kay moves the motion to write a letter to the municipal project team. Is there a second? Definitely. Okay. Amanda? Brad? All those in favor? All those in favor? We are being courted, so we better go around with a voice vote. Okay? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And yes. And yes.
We will take care of doing that. All right. Thank you. I'll just leave this with you. So it's in case it's of any help. Yes. Thank you, Rep. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Then we're back to the minutes.
Anything anyone noticed? I have one little thing on the front, if no one else had mentioned it. And first paragraph under public comment, the last date should be 2025, not 2026. Oh, good, Kelly. Yes. Or when we sent a last letter of concern. Right.
And on page two, you notice a yellow highlight. I didn't catch the last name of this person we discussed. Who, Tanya, this person, some artifacts were recovered from her garden. Yeah. And you were talking about trying to get them back from UMass. What was her name? Yeah.
I hear Joe. Is that Joe Gossels? No. It was something like that, but that wasn't a name I didn't say. Is it Joe Gossels? Joe Gossels. Gossels. G-O-S-E-L-T. She used to be curator at the historical site. All right. Great. Thank you.
I wondered if that was it, but I didn't know for sure, so I wasn't going to comment on it. Yeah, you have to.
Oh, yes, I can. Okay.
Anything else on the minutes? Then, is there a motion to accept the minutes as corrected? So moved. Accept second. Okay. All those in favor? Raise your hand. Visually, we're on the camera. Approving the minutes. Approving the minutes. Approving the minutes. Good. Unanimous. Thank you. Trade places. You want to trade places with me? Yeah, that's wonderful. Next up is a correspondence received concerning the Gardner School, and there was a chance that he was going to be on the Zoom. I don't know how we know that, but Kay has some information about his email that came in. You mentioned I'm emailing you. About the Gardner School. Yes, I know. I'm trying to think what that was. I didn't bring it with me. Sorry. Oh, this gentleman, did you all reach? It came to HC members, so it came to your town email. Do you remember reading it? Yeah. So on Commonwealth Ave, there's a house behind the nursing home, and they apparently want to build a preschool there. So because we have the demolition delay article up on our webpage, he thought it had been approved, so he was reaching out to see what he had to do in order to get approval for tearing down the existing house. It's a two-family house that's there, and I believe it was built by a shoemaker, and I informed him that we really didn't have a demolition delay. It failed by two votes. So I said, we might write a letter of concern, and if he had any questions, he could join our meeting and ask them, and that is the gist of the conversation.
So you spoke with him? I called him just because I was confused as to why he was asking about demolition delay, and I figured I would just go right to the source and find out. And they're not planning this for a long time. He was doing his due diligence by researching what was required for the town of Weyland, but that's as far as the conversation went. I told him he was free to join us. He indicated he would. It may be like... When I was on... Yes, going down to... The system, there should be a way for us to see calls coming in, but yeah, I thought I had at one time... At the moment, Madam Chair, I... Oh, you're up there. We just can't see you on our screen. I'm here remotely. I just wanted to let you know that we don't have any other attendees other than the one that I mentioned to you already. So I don't see him, is what I'm saying.
He does not see the gentleman on... All right, what about the person that's already on, though? Who is that already on? So there's a Marie Eisenberg that is attending the meeting and watching it. But she didn't want to be put on? Is that what he said? I mean, I don't believe so. I mean, if... I suppose if they wanted to... That's your... That's the Marie that's responded with Rick. Okay. For the railroad. Right. We get to that. Come up under the rail trail. Okay. Yes. Thank you. So I don't see anything later. If Marie can hang in there, it's going to be a while before we get to the rail trail and signage and benches. I hear her because I don't think he let her on.
Is that something that you would, guys, that you want me to add her on to the... Yes, I think... Can we move it? You're the chair. You're telling me whether or not you want to let her in now. No, we'll let her in now. That's fine. She can listen until we get to the railroad.
But could the Gardner school person identify himself? I don't think he's on. He's not on. Apparently. That's what he was saying. Okay. Right. Only Marie is on. I'm just curious. Can you see this building from the road? The building that the Gardner school wants to tear down? Oh, yes. Yes. And it's an 1885 to 87 period house. It was built for the shoe workers, we think. And does not have a plaque. What's the actual number? I don't remember. It's not a number either. But it's in our email. It's right behind Royal Weyland Nursing Home, except it faces Commonwealth Road. So it's the next building, next lot behind the nursing home. It's fairly long. There's quite a bit of acreage in it compared to other house lots in that area. And there was a building behind there that they believe was used to make shoes. Maybe that's correct. Yes. Okay. Well, we just wanted everyone to be aware that this is a proposal. In the future, I don't know whether the property is up for sale at the moment or whatever. But he did contact us, so we'll keep it in the loop. So you should look at your email because it's the house. It's okay. I'll figure it out. And there is a building back there that could have possibly have been a 10 by 10 thing, but I don't know.
Okay. Well, let's move on from the Gardner School. And I want to move up the Castlegate and Dudley Woods signs because Anne needs to leave at 2.30. So, Anne? Thank you very much. I appreciate the rearrangement. I sent you all copies of these a couple of days ago that I just received from Carol. So, this is our opportunity to make comments. I want to consolidate all of our feedback so that we are very efficient with Carol's time. And hopefully, we won't have, you know, too many rounds of feedback.
So, what you have, the first two sheets, she just did the same sign in two different color styles because she wanted to give us a look at how it looked in different shades. But the content of those two is the same. The Dudley Woods sign, there are two. One focuses on the naturescape. And one focuses on the history. And so, I'm open to hear your comments on any or all aspects of these.
Oh, no. They're two different. They're just in two different color schemes. So, it's the same. Okay. That's what you're saying. Which side is going to talk about. It's so subtle. I didn't even see that. It is subtle. The only thing I had was, I don't know if the left might go in parentheses, I found it a little confusing. I'm sorry. What are you talking about? I thought we were talking about. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Ann, which sign do you want to talk about for a story? It doesn't matter to me. No, I meant you said Dudley Woods. And I'm just, which Dudley Woods sign do we want to talk about? Oh, all right. Okay. So, she's left some spaces for photo captions. These are not sentences. These are literally just captions. Okay. And I'm a little unclear on the placement of the third one to the right, what it is referring to. So, that's a question that I have for her.
Oh, nothing. It's not until we get to the cast will be all done. I think it's well done. I mean, I know you put a lot of time into it. I think it's very well done. This is a colorful history. Yes. And I did it that the caption was referring to the upper photo simply because there's already a caption related to the lower photo. That's right. I think it's great. Okay. Why don't we start with you? Okay. Of course. You just get under the light. I love the water. The way she chose the water for the upper, you know. Yeah. Or a texture that looks like water. Yeah. Well, the first thing is there are no photos of the camps. You talk about the camps, but there's no photo of the camps. And the picture of the two rowboats in the pond seems sort of redundant to me because this week had talked about going toward the pond and where you will see the pond. So it's more important to see historically that there were all these little camps around the pond and looking at a pond in a picture and then looking out at the pond itself was just my comment on that. Let's see. Oh, and I think out of proper usage, I think we need to contact Bobby Lee's family who still lives here in Wayland, whether or not they approve of using her photo or whatever, especially since we identify her. Yeah. So I agree with you. I intend to contact them, but I didn't want to contact them until I got your feedback. Yeah, because if you don't like the photo, then it's not my favorite, but it's okay. Yeah. Such a cute suit. Yeah. She is a cute lady there. She's actually living native when this picture was taken. I love the blue color, but I'm not enamored with the empty blue space up at the top.
Maybe the pictures could be more centered or something. I don't know. And add another photo up there. And it's hard to judge how readable that map is at the bottom because we don't see the large sign. But I like the map and I know maps look better on darker colors. So those are basically my comments on it. Okay.
It's Dorothy Lee. What? Who is Dorothy Lee? Dorothy Lee lived up with the head of my road and her husband worked for the DPW, no, the water department. And his daughter lives now on Ravine Road. Right. Right behind the house where the ladies lived. Well, why is she on here? What? Why is she on here? Well, that's a good question. I mean, it could be anyone. But she did live her adult life here in Kachituit. So she's in Weyland by marriage. I think it's just an image of a 1940s lady enjoying her leisure time at the pond. Just the way we have, you know, the ice skaters on the panel, the rail trail panel. Oh, that's right. And it just happens that we can identify that photograph rather than leaving it as an unknown person. I think it's adorable. I just wondered if she had some special status or something. No, she is not. Other than she was a very nice lady who did a lot of good for Weyland in her own way.
Go ahead. I agree with Katie that, I mean, my initial reaction is, wow, there's a whole lot of blank space at the upper right corner. Don't we have a lot of additional text or photos that can be used to fill in that space? Also, we have a half of a nice house. That's all we have to have a picture of. I'm sorry.
And also, I'm concerned about the quality of the map at the lower left corner, whether it's actually going to be legible. So, it seems to me we have a lot more material that can be used in the upper right corner.
Just for the record, I find it very relaxing not to have too much text and too much imagery. And I feel like it feels very, if you're going to be in the woods, I kind of liked that extra empty space. Well, I'm not saying that we have to add a picture. I'm just saying maybe we could move it up just a tad so that it isn't such a large area. Yeah. I mean, the placement of, I think Anne was saying, this is a little strange. That, you know, the reading that ice house over, the overlapping is, at the placement, I'm not 100% sure of with the captions. But other than that. Well, Carol did say one of her goals was for it to be easy to access, you know, you're outside, you're recreating. And so, not too much copy. That's always a standard instruction on a sign like this. And, you know, some open space to let it all breathe, is how she put it. So, in my mind also, it's we're paying so much money for this sign that we need to utilize it in the best way possible. And I think that's a big gap of space. And I think it's also a big gap of space on the Dudley Wood, on the nature one, too. What about a QR code? I know we've discussed it before, but this way we could add and take away information in the background, depending on, you know, what we want. If somebody used a QR code, they could learn a lot more. I don't know what they wanted to. I don't know what you're going to add to the QR. Well, I mean, for instance, Rick said more text. So, you know, we could repeat what's here. We could also have bigger and more images that you can follow through a QR code so that this looks beautiful. But if somebody wants to really drill down, they can. Well, when I was talking, I don't know how you're going to put this in your notes, Ian, but what I was talking about is just moving it up an inch or two slightly, not put everything up there. It also adds a little bit more space at the bottom. It doesn't look quite so crowded at the bottom.
If printing goes over the picture, my printing does not. Oh, see, that's what was bothering me. I thought that was weird. Yeah, but see, mine is below the picture. Oh, so that looks better.
It's below the picture. It is below the picture.
Oh, okay. Your blues are too similar. But it did run differently. This is what I ran at home. Yeah, that's what I had to do. It isn't over the print of the Ice House. It looks like it is in the copy you brought in. And notice that it is not over the picture. It's over the frame. It's over the blue frame that lies behind the picture. So it kind of gives you the impression that it's over the picture.
I like the two pictures slightly overlapped. Because I think when you just put pictures side by side by side, it gets very blocky. It's static. Very static. Right. Do I agree with you? It was, yeah. Do we have any pictures of the camps or cabins? Yes. That could be used? Yes. I would think that that would be. Well, CQ has them. I'm not sure she does.
I hate to even talk about this. This whole photo thing has been such a nightmare for you, for me. But I think that's something we need to check on. Because I am not sure she has high resolution images of camps. We may need to. Did you notice when I sent it to you that it also had Carol's address on it as well? No. No, it doesn't come through that way when you're sending it through Google. I don't see who else is. Who else is. Okay. But it was. Yeah. I sent you and Carol at the exact same time. Just so that you know I'm trying. No, I know you did. You took us. But. Well, let me ask you this. I promise not to say anything else, but ask about the photos. Can I call Carol and ask her if she received them? If not, how can I get them to her?
Sure. Yeah, of course.
I just send a nice, simple email.
That's an excellent idea. Because it's not fair to you to keep trying to put the conduit to you with her not being able to get it. It's better if it comes from the source. Right. Agreed. Okay. Anything else on the sign of the setting? Anything about the copy? Are we all set with the words?
Okay. Let's look at the second of the wood sign, the historic and natural setting. Now, I will say this arrowhead, this, I don't know where she got this. We didn't, Brian did not take this photo. I did not give this to her. So, I don't know if that's appropriate or not. You guys would. Yeah. I think we probably have a better photo, don't you, Sonia? The color is unusual. I mean, it's not typical. So, I have a question before we go into that. Is it appropriate to us to kind of emphasize that there may be artifacts there that people should be looking for? Did Brian Harris submit this? No. No. She says she doesn't know where that came from. That's something that Carol, the designer, put in. It's a caption here. Brian Harris. But it isn't Brian's. Okay. The other ones are Brian's, the bird and the dragonfly. But she added that. Carol added that and added the. Well, this could be the one from across from Mahoney's. Mahoney's? At that point. In Boston Post Road. Be surprised if it's Valen's website. There's a point like this up on the website. I don't know where Carol got it. Well, but I think Kay's asking a good question. The question I'm asking is, do we want to emphasize the fact that there might be Indian artifacts there for people to go digging for? Or should we just mention it in the text and not really go into depth about it? I think that would be a better idea. Visually giving them clues kind of thing. Well, I think it's better the way it is. I mean, just reference it as a crossroads for the various tribes. I don't think you want to go into any more detail about perhaps sites being there that people should look for. No, but we didn't mention information. It was something about the cotton been found there. Yeah, I was just talking about the visual picture in the corner. The copy is okay. It's the visual picture kind of fitting home to readers, especially non-text readers. People just look at pictures. Right. That kind of thing. Well, Brian gave me access to dozens and dozens of his hundreds and hundreds of nature photos. We have more to choose from besides this bird and dragonfly, and we won't have any trouble putting our creatures on here. I like the color photos very much. The other thing I wanted to, and again, there's a lot of open space up here, and it's that block image that we were talking about earlier at the bottom. It could be something not of a creature, too. It could be a tree or, you know, a native kind of plane. Right, because when I went back to the CPC to see what the signs were supposed to have, it gave us a list of things that are supposed to be on the signs. It could be something that native people would have used recently. I think that algonquin is spelled wrong. Oh, good point. There are two spellings for algonquin. Oh. I don't know which is the more acceptable. I discovered that. On you? In some research. Well, I will look. We'll check on that. So it says signs will consist of permanent markers at three entrances, parking, and a few markers about history and natural characterization of the land, which we've done. And I also have, I also sent out to you a map, so that maybe, because you had talked about placement, and this is the trail map. Oh, I didn't see that. Was that in your email? Yes. I missed it. And I guess that's what I have for that.
It's under trail signage, $8,000, if you're just looking at the Bible. Okay. It's a page two.
Instead of an arrowhead, maybe we can have a sketch of a dwelling, because people wouldn't be looking for that. You know, the little wigwam type, roundish stuff.
Do we have an image? Do we have a photograph of that? I mean, she has already a lot of things. We have to go get permission. We have one in the case that's back behind the stairwell. I will tell you that my experience on this project is it's very, very hard to get images that are of good enough quality for this kind of project, because they have to be so big in the end. That's why Kay and I have been struggling to get Carol photos with high resolution. So anything we wanted to add would have to be of high enough quality for her to be able to use. Well, maybe we could take a picture, get some photographer to take a picture. Well, we could. Do you have any objection to maybe putting a tree or fauna there? Because we have two, not animals, but living things, and then we don't have anything about the trees or the fauna or anything else that we might put there. Things that they could see if they looked around and saw. And, Tanya, maybe things that the Native people use, like milkweed or something.
That's why I thought about a wigwam might be a good thing. But we don't have a real authentic one. So they could look around and see the milkweed around them after they see it on here. That's what we were saying. Oh, how about nuts? Nuts?
I'd suggest a chipmunk or a squirrel or something, because you've got the trees in the background. You've got plants. You've got a plant in your, essentially with your dragonfly, but you have no animals that people would see if you're out in the woods. And kids might look for. Mm-hmm. That's another thought from Brian's selection of nature stuff.
The initial thought was this looks more like something that the Conservation Commission would put up than the Historical Commission. So if there's any way we can inject some more history into this, we've covered the birds and the insects. That's why I was trying to, I mean, nuts and berries are specifically mentioned. And the Native people would have used those things, right? So I was trying to bring attention to that in a way.
A basket or a bowl. I'm sorry? Or a basket or a bowl. A basket or a bowl. Okay. That's a suggestion. The only, if we're talking about history, Rick, the only thing that's different on the text from what we looked at was the name, the naming of the pond, how the pond's name has changed from Farm Pond to Johnson Pond to Dudley Pond, which may or may not be of interest, but it is of history. Oh, the Indigenous people are history. Well, that's true. Yeah, so that's, I mean, that's why I was trying to think about the resources the Native people would have used that are still there today. If we could connect those dots, it would, without, without putting artifacts on there. Right. I have no problem with that. I will say, I do not like the green. It's a 2P green. Makes me think of when I get sick. So. I love it. I know. Green is my favorite color. I was just going to say, I bet you mean it should be. I'm almost wearing that same color. Again, it looks to me like we're just wasting a huge amount of space in the upper right corner that we ought to be filling with something other than paint a couple of trees that people may or may not be able to see. I mean, it's a waste of time. Although I gather from what Ann was saying, Carol's professional view is that you don't want to clutter it up too much. It ultimately becomes distracting and you may not read everything. And if I gather is what Carol's point was. That was her goal and the design of it. But we do have more photos like these. But what I was wondering is instead of having the block left across the bottom, maybe she could do something creative and space in between or something. Or overlap it like this or something a little bit. But you have to envision this is on what, a 24 inch sign, a two foot sign. Right. So based on the sketch, half of that sign is essentially going to feel empty. Good point.
And when I talked about the name, I was envisioning a little side panel like that. Not necessarily in the big text that people may or may not. Oh, so the naming of the pond. Yeah. It's a little side panel, not a big thing. We could put it instead of, we could put another text box instead of. Yeah.
Sure. Before it was on this sign to begin with, these have always been envisioned as two topics. One is the natural setting. One is the history of the area. And I bet that Dudley Pond paragraph was, yeah, it's on this one. Okay.
It wouldn't, I don't think it would make sense on that one because this doesn't really talk about the pond at all. Okay. This is more about the woods and the, well, it does mention the pond, sorry. It's that it abides the pond, but not really. Yeah. And I, and I do recall at various times discussing this, that, you know, we wanted it to be about the woods. I don't know if you, but maybe if there was a little corner that she could put the information about the, on the, on the other one. Colorful history sign. Yeah. No, but I agree with you that this should be more woodsy, not on fish.
And, you know, to be honest, there's not a lot to that Dudley Woods. No, there really isn't. There's not much there. And so I don't know quite what else to say about it. Actually, that's, the woods is where the camps were. So I'm just saying the camp, although there were a lot of camps on the pond, there were more camps where the woods is. And there's at least one cellar hole that you can see from the trail that was there at least five years ago when I walked it. See, this is why I think a QR code would be great. A QR code would be great. Then you wouldn't have all that other information. You could, you could list. You could have more pictures and more information just like that. Well, I'll tell you, when we, when I talk to other historical societies, people say you put the QR code on and very, very few people ever use it. I use QR codes. I use QR codes too. That's why I was surprised. But that's what the feedback was. Are they extraordinarily expensive? Is that they're unattractive? They don't have to be big. They could be very small. There's no expense associated with it. You can create one for free, but it's, where does it lead? You have to, you know, obviously develop a landing page, your website. But we could right now, you know, right in, in progress or whatever, you know what I mean? Well, while we work on it. And where else it directs back to our website here, our, our historical commission website. Temporarily. And yes, because we have other interesting things on that website. If you want to add additional information. And then we just have to create a new additional material to go on the website that would fill in around Dudley Fond history. You can add that extra material after you've done the QR code that links to, that's why I'm saying it stays permanently here rather than, I mean, where else would you put it? If we can make another page or add our pictures to our website on the town website, sure. Yeah, that's fine. That's what you would do. Yeah. And it's just an idea.
Because it sounds like the writing. Not right today, but maybe in the next three years. Yes, the other thing about the QR code is it does indicate that there is more information available. Exactly.
I mean, of all sorts, right? Yes. So, I mean, I was suggesting you don't like to defend it.
Well, I love to, I think.
You already got this. Yes. Yeah. And I will double check that I think this one is correct. Yes, I think so, too. Yeah. Thank you.
Any other suggestions? Yeah. No. If not, then we'll move on to Castle Cate. Okay. Castle Cate.
Well, this is my favorite one so far. But I do think, I don't know if this was the final text. I do, I see the text, how it has a caption here. And then I do think it needs to have like brackets around the word letter. What are you talking about? A wealthy young widow. So, Evangeline Mara Simpson left Wayland. Did she leave Wayland or she left? Is the picture to the left of the text? To the left of the copy? It's part of the sentence. She left Wayland. She departed Wayland. Although that sounds like she might have died. So, okay. That was just confusing to me. Because I was looking, oh, that's her picture to the left. My first impression was I like the bluish cast page better than the yellow with the maroon or brown. Because I think the mansion stands out better. I agree. The blue. Yeah. And I think since my feeling is that Castle Gate relates to the entry to the mansion and the estate, that there should be more about the house and the estate rather than so much about her after she leaves. I also think she was born in Wayland. She was born on Dudley Pond. And that ought to be in here. That she's a native Waylander, so to speak. That is a good detail. Okay. And the house itself is, I mean, we just say they built this mansion named the castle, became the mansion inn, and we kind of stopped there with the building. But there was so much more to the grounds. There was a stable. There was a windmill for pumping the water from Dudley Pond and then from Rice Pond. There were servants' quarters. There was a big garden area. There were no lions that Mark Schlund put in the aqueduct, right?
He did a water line to Rice Pond. The first one. The first equivalent to an aqueduct. Not just for himself, but because he was doing it for himself, he gifted it to all the properties along the way. I thought that was a pretty cool thing. I mean, certainly. Or limit that. Probably. But I think a number of these words could be eliminated, Cohnett. If you look at the A to Z copy that I sent you, there's a lot more Wayland history in here about the house and the gates and then what she did after she left Wayland. It's not so much Wayland history. I think it's fascinated by her story. Well, I think so, too. But this is about Castlegate pillars, not about Evangeline Simpson. It's my difference. There's a difference between talking about a person and talking about the artifact and what it was at the time. And that's what we were asked to do was the Castlegate pillars, not Evangeline Simpson. Okay, but I think it would be pretty boring just to talk about the actual stone pillar. So I think it's the story. No, it's the story and the building. I mean, you know, ultimately, it's... Well, yes, we have that here with Michael Simpson. Yes. I think you would have to take him out as well. But he built it for her, really. And I agree with that. And I think that's important. I'm not so sure about her relationship with Cleveland, which never happened in Wayland. I'm not so sure about her being necessarily buried in Italy or that she... You know, it's just... It's not Wayland history. And that's what we were asked to do. Okay. Well, I think that does have... You do have a point with that. But I do think it's very important about him and her. I agree. I absolutely agree. And although I like the map on the darker background, I think it shows up better. And it's easier to read and to see than the green background with the pale white green. It might look too busy with the blue cast mansion in and the brown. But it might not. We'll see what it looks like.
So... You've got Rose. So you want... So you want more about the house itself? Well, I think if you look at the A to Z, they talk about the house. They talk about... Let's see.
The main drive led to a covered entrance. It talks about the H and Y grounds were extensively landscaped. And the public was encouraged to enter the property. He rode along a bridal path adorned by four stone-powered lions, which were later moved. But... Oh, yeah. We could have put a picture of the lion. And... Because it still exists. We don't have a picture of the lion. This is what I'm saying. These pictures are... I think the lion is at the Historical Society. Yeah, it is at the Historical Society. And also... We could take a picture. We have a very nice picture of Brian's. We could ask Brian's for a picture of theirs that could be high-res. But the area that says Hawthorne on it, in the map, he turned that into Evangeline Todd for a long time. That's where she rode her horses. Oh, yeah. Hawthorne Laws. So, let's look at each paragraph. And I need to get a better idea of what can come out. I like the two paragraphs. But I agree... There are four paragraphs in the main copy. And if we're going to add more detail describing the house and the grounds and the bridal path and all that, I think we're going to have to cut some of what's here. Can we just swap it out with the information about roads? It's like, correction on his... Who has the picture of Michael Simpson. And it's the Fringingham Historic Center. Okay. And only one source have I ever found that referred to the house as a capital. And that was in the agency. Nobody else ever referred to it as a castle. Well, I added that because of the very name of this. I know. Castle Gate, like where... We could say that afterward, people... Like, obviously, people in town do refer to it as the castle because of Castle Gate. Well, Kay says she has never heard anybody call it the castle. I did read the mansion in... Right. But why is it called Castle Gate? Because Michael Simpson owned property there and he owned property above it. And he called the development Castle Gate South and Castle Gate North. That's where the name Castle Gate comes from. It's from the development, not from the house. But if he called it that, that means he was thinking his house was like a castle. Do you know that? I don't know. Why would you create Castle Gate? Why would you say that name? Why would you just call it Mansion and Gate? If you've ever been down Lakeview Road, it's called Wayland Manors. Trust me. There are no manors on that house, on that road. But people choose glorious names to attract attention to their developments and sell their houses. That's what I'm saying. That's where the castle gate castle came from, not from the house, from the developer, from the developments on either side. And that's another thing that it talks about here is the road that connects. That was his right of way between the two developments. It's now Lake Shore Drive, which I find interesting that the right of way turned into a street. And it's more history than it is anything else. Not that I think it needs to go on here again, but I'm just saying. That is interesting. Also, her full name is Evangeline Elizabeth Thurston Mars Simpson Whipple. Well, Whipple came later. Yes, indeed. You're telling me we don't want to talk about her after she was talking. That's fine. I'm just telling you. I'm disappointed by that because I think her life story is interesting. And I think just because we have talked about she is a way loaned figure. Well, we had talked here of the QR code that would lead back to your article that you wrote for the commission. And that's what we had initially talked about. OK, so I'm going to repeat my question. What do you think is extraneous information that can come out of these four paragraphs if we're going to add details about the house and grounds and all that?
Couldn't we just lift the header up a little bit higher? I feel like there's more space. It's an awful lot of text. The idea of a sign like this is to keep it. Nobody's going to stand there and read five or six paragraphs. I'm on board with that point of view, that keeping it to a reasonable length is the best way to invite people to read it. OK, well, here's a paragraph I come here. I think 30 men spent most of 1882 completing the house, stable, servant quarters and windmill at a cost of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The windmill pumped the water from Dudley Pond. But Simpson also financed the water mains. They brought the water from Cachichewitz. I shouldn't say Cachichewitz because it's not in Cachichewitz. Cachichewitz from Rice Reservoir coming down West Plain Street to his mansion and enabling households along the route to have access to running water. Now, that's Wyland's history. I think it's cool. It's a lot of text, though. All right. And the hundred and fifty thousand. Yes. Explain what that would be worth today. I feel like I don't know. I guess I guess the end point in terms of text. That's really that is very interesting. But what would you take out to put that line right in?
Well, I guess we're going to take out the whole caption about Evangeline next to her picture, because you're telling me that is not that doesn't belong on the sign. So, I mean, I think maybe that text is where I could talk about. She was born in Wayland because her parents lived right. Simpson bought the property from her parents. Correct. Simpson bought the property where he built the mansion from her parents. From Jane, her mother. From her mother. But so she was born along. She was born there in Dudley Pond, along Dudley Pond. Yeah. If they say it was called Hawthorne, you could see it on the map. And the brown. And the green right up here. That big square says Hawthorne on it. Hawthorne on it. Yeah, I could only see it on the brown because I can't read the text. Yeah, the brown. That's why I like the brown better. It's easier to read. But I think on a big sign, I could read the green. I just, I needed to. But no, I agree. On a bigger sign, it'd be more legible. So. And congratulations. I don't have any age. You're quiet. It's a point. It's silly. Well, I was just about to say, this whole last paragraph obviously has to stay because that's about pillars. That's the pillars. That's where the sign is. Absolutely. It has to be explained. And I've, and I've worked to say that information as succinctly as I can.
Do we need to put in the 2018 that we actually. Oh, yes. I appreciate that. Yeah. I think. Okay. They're not accurate either. And I mean, they're, they're wider than, than the entry initially. And that was important to me because I, I like to know like an old country where you can see, you know, originally it would have been a narrow entryway because probably was, it was just a small width. Vehicles or a horse even. Well, I wonder about moving that last paragraph up to where you're actually talking about the stone pillars once marked the back entrance. And then you talk about farmers delivering to these stone gates and so forth. It seems that those two paragraphs connect better.
So I'm, I'm, what I'm hearing you say is that you don't really want information about the mansion in, because this is more about the Simpson estate. Sorry. That, that you don't, you think it should be more about the Simpson estate and the building of the house, not about the mansion in, the piece about the mansion in should come out. No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm sorry that I couldn't say that. No, that's not what I'm saying. I would even have said more about the mansion in, and the fact that it became, you know, like people from Boston would come out to it. Well, she does. She says that it was eventually the mansion in an elegant restaurant with lavish ballroom for spring floors, which they built, not Simpson. And in 56, the mansion in Brindown. But I would take out the sentence, the imposing Victorian houses made of brick, wood, and stones sat on the knoll. Well, maybe leaving the knoll overlooking, only because most houses are built of one of those three. But I would put in a sentence about, just a sentence, about 30 men spent most of 1882 completing the house at a cost of $150,000. And didn't I read in here someplace about the water? You did. But we can send recommendations later, but I don't think that's a lot of text. Because we have to take out an equal number. Well, right. That's what I'm saying. I'm taking out a sentence, and I'm putting that sentence. Which one are you taking out? The Victorian house made of brick, wood, and stone sat on the knoll overlooking the lawn. Isn't that... Don't we want to describe the house? That's... But aren't most houses made of brick, or wood, or stone? I think it's okay. I think the combination of the three, I think, is somewhat unique. I mean, brick, wood, and stone. I mean, you can have a wood house, you can have a brick house, you might have a stone house. But combining all three elements, I think, is pretty unique. You can't tell from the picture, so it's nice to know, oh, what materials were used in the construction. Because I watch too much HTTP, because I see so many houses made of all three. Well, I do like the sentence, though, about how long it took to complete it, and at what cost. And if you don't want to put in completing stable servant corners and windmills, that saves a few words. So you have 30 men spending most of 1882 completing the property at a cost of $150,000. So I don't think it's good to say money, unless you say how much it's, like, that's the problem. It's always going to change in value as time goes forward. But in 1882, $150,000 is a lot of money. I know, but I don't know if people reading that are going to realize how much money that is.
We disagree. What seems to me that you three ought to be in a subcommittee and work on this separately and then come back and begin is putting in a lot of time. And I appreciate all the efforts. Well, I'm just looking back at, like, we've had many drafts of this. And we've had this, parts of this conversation we've had before. I, so I'm, I'm not sure how to get it over the finish line. But we do, I do feel like we want to move efficiently and get this done because it literally will hold up the rail trail sign project if we're not ready when spring comes and they're ready to install the signs. So I think we want to move, you know, fairly quickly from here going forward to finalize this. I'm happy to take another stab at the language on here. I'm not sure what the right process is for us to make progress before our next meeting. I don't want to wait for another month. So I'm not really sure what the rules allow.
You're, you're, you're retired from the, I'm still on the commission. I'm trying to wrap this up. You know, and to babysit for my grandson at three o'clock every Wednesday, which now is, I'm sorry, but it's, you know, they're counting on me. So that's the, you're bringing this out so you won't leave it. Yes. I would like to add another point though, that I found that the pillars are the last remaining remnant of the mansion. And I think that I would like to see that listed here. So people know, this is the last evidence we have of this huge, huge mansion in, or, you know, what became the mansion in place, you know, it's because the, the lions are scattered. That's right. That's right. But there are also the communities to know, we know the whereabouts of two of them. We, we, we think we know the, maybe since anyway, grand press, you could say the last remnants of, or even at the front, these stone pillars, the last remnants, or whatever. Yeah. Once marked the back entrance to the mansion. I, let me ask a suggestion. I, I don't know what the open meeting law violation would be, but I have no problem delegating this to Ann and the two of you to work out the final language. I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't know whether it can be a part of it. It's okay. I loved the way it was until other points were brought up. I was like, oh, well, that is a good point.
But yeah, I don't know how two people work on it and communicate. I don't think that violates any open meeting law. I don't think it does. And I'm perfectly okay submitting a motion saying the two of you can agree on the final language and get it submitted. I think it's subcommittee of less than three can meet when they want and make decisions. But the final vote has to be the whole, and we're trying to get it done before. We can vote now to approve the language that you guys agree on. But I'm perfectly okay with that. No, I'm not. Okay. Okay. No, I think that's jumping the gun a bit, so to speak. I think we'll all feel more comfortable if we actually see something that we're voting on. But it doesn't. It's important. It doesn't prohibit us from having a quick meeting before next month. We don't have to wait a whole month. We can meet in two weeks or a week. And just on this topic alone, nothing else. And you can do a Zoom meeting. You don't have to come here if you don't want to. You can do that. Well, that's what I think would be most efficient. That's the subcommittee now. No, no. She's saying everybody come together. For the final vote, we all have to agree. Yes, we all have to be here. So what I'm saying is a Zoom meeting just on this topic to take a jump just on this so that we don't hold anybody else up. Yeah, that's a good idea. And we could try and meet in a week or two, whatever it's convenient for your schedule. And we can work intensely on this to get it completed because I think we're closer than we think we are on it. And that would be the end of it. We don't have to debate it any further here. We don't have to, you know, unless somebody else wants to share more ideas that they think should or should not be on here, you're in silence. What did you ask? I said, if you want to share anything else that should or should not be on the sign, now, you know, we'll take those emails. Well, I don't think that arrowhead should be on here. Okay. I think we should. But we're talking just about this sign. Yeah. I know, but I'm back to here. Yeah, I've got that in my notes. She already has that written in. I hear you. So do you want to give them a day to email us any other ideas they have or should we just cut it off here? I think we're all set. I think I need to hear everything you've got to say right now. And then I will take a crack at another draft. Can I send it to the two of you? Sure. And then you can send me your feedback and then we can finalize it to bring to the larger group. Is that permissible? I think that's a solid solution for at least a matter of time. We have a plan. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. I miss it anyway. Okay. I'm going to do it. Moving on. The REV 250th. Two things under that. We have Frances Perkins and the Cemetery Revolution Tour.
So, Kay, you have April 10th. Which is, I believe, 110th birthday of Frances Perkins. Is when a person portraying her will be out here. At the moment, we're trying to decide between the COA venue, which we have already booked a room for. Or we've just been offered a room at the First Parish House, free of charge, to have the program there. So, I have to discuss it with the person who's doing the presentation, which you might prefer. You said the 10th, correct? The 10th is definite, though. At what time? 7 o'clock. 7 o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Not a.m. And it's just like going to a play. It's a one-woman, one-act play. That would be so great. I mean, that, yeah. Cool. So, unfortunately, the school people that we've contacted have not responded. They're posting us initially. They said yes. They were excited about it. They wanted it. And now they've not responded to me or to Scarlett. And Scarlett is a friend of theirs. So, I don't know what's going on over there. I offered to get a grant from the Coastal Council, and they told me, no, we have our own funds. Still, no response. So, I don't know. It's so bizarre. So, it's sort of dropped, by the wayside, from them. The second thing is. Can I mention? What do we need to do for that day? Do we need posting? Do we need parking? Do we need whatever? I think I sent Anne. Anne, we're lucky enough to have her as our PR person. And I sent you the photographs and the information on her. And I never know. I tend to send it to your personal email just because it's not. I need to find out which one you want me to send it to. Well, as long as I'm still on the commission, I'd say use the town one. Okay. Because hearing you say that you sent me that, I'm like, really? Yeah, yesterday morning at the 2.50th meeting, I sent it to you. Okay. So, basically, it would be nice if the commission, as many of the commissioners could show up at the program, since we're sponsoring the program. I don't know that at either place we need anybody to pressure people to the chairs or anything like that. I don't know if it's not. She has a very simplistic presentation. She just needs a podium or a table.
And both places have offered both. So, no podium at the COA table they could offer, but that would be there.
Anything else you can look up to do? No. However, the cemetery tour. We are asking re-enactors to re-enact no more than eight Revolutionary War soldiers. And I'm sorry, I should be talking for a jumbo. No more than eight Revolutionary War soldiers will have re-enactors. Some of the information might be delivered by a mother or a wife or a sister or a daughter-in-law. So, it's not all men that are talking. Some of them will have two people at the grave. I have a father-in-law and a daughter-in-law talking. Because the father-in-law was in the Revolutionary War, but the woman's husband was in the Revolutionary War. So, they will be two at a grave. But for staffing, that's the real thing. This is going to be April 12th. April 12th, that's the same weekend as Francis Perkins. And April 12th, we're going to have...
We need somebody to sit at the table because they're registering online through the town. We know how many people are going. We need people to point out parking spots because we know there's no parking lot at the North Cemetery. We need a guide and a, quote-unquote, pusher, a guide to lead them from one cemetery site to the next grave site, and a pusher to keep people together up close. We don't want somebody wandering off and saying, oh, come over here and look at this beautiful stone, you know? And then all of a sudden, they're five minutes behind everybody else. One of the big questions that I would like some feedback on is we're asking these reenactors to find outfits and to memorize a five- to eight-minute speech. Do we want to do just one tour, or do we want to do maybe three tours with maybe a half an hour to an hour start-up times different? I read Dennis Picard. I reached out to him. He's done hundreds of cemetery tours and asked him what I should be considering. And one of the things is we have to say up front that it's uneven ground. People need to wear walking shoes so that if they decide to come, it's their decisions and not the town's in case somebody trips or falls or has an accident. We want to keep the grave site far enough apart that if we do more than one group, they are not talking over each other. And he said no more maximum 10 people to a group because any more than that, people are not going to be able to hear the speaker. And I have been on cemetery tours where if you are on the back of the tour, you don't hear the speaker. So keep the group small, which is why I'm asking you to consider whether you want to do more than one group. Because hopefully we would have more than 10 people that would want to go on the cemetery walk. Is there a rain date? There is not at this point. We might, if it gets closer, we could try rescheduling it at a different time. But more afraid of the snow than the rain. Yeah. I'm not kidding. Are you going to include the indigenous graves? What? Are you going to include the indigenous graves? Not at this point. They're all revolutionary soldiers for the Rev. 250 at this point. If it goes well and we want to, we can do another cemetery walk of other people in fall, which is a very popular time to do cemetery walks. But, again, it involves a commitment from the commissioners to be present. And if you cannot be present, to find someone to take your place to help with the parking, with the registration table, and for the guides and pushers to keep everything moving in a timely fashion. Well, I'm happy to help, and I think, theoretically, there should be more than if they're memorizing these lines and you're paying them. We're not paying them. Oh, they're not. As far as I know, we're not. Oh, okay. Then we should have multiple times available. But it's then also harder to find volunteers because you need them then all day versus, you know. Well, they could be to the one to two, and they go around so they hear the speakers. Then you could have another pair do two to three and another pair do four. I mean, it isn't the same people because if we're, even if we make it 45 minutes apart, that means that first group is probably still going, and we need somebody to start the second group. I think it's a good idea. And I'm happy to, right now, my calendar was clear, so I put it down. I'm going to be out of state from the 8th to the 13th, but I can maybe ask Alyssa, see if she's interested. I can do that. I can help. Thank you. Thank you. Very nice. I think I'm available on the 12th. I have a tentative. I have a plan with my family. It's either going to happen on the 11th or 12th, and I don't know yet, but hopefully the 11th.
Okay.
I think I'll be available to help on Sunday afternoon. And, you know, even though you are all available, if you have a friend that you want to work with as a group and, you know, guide and push her, just let me know who's going to be there and how to contact them and bring a friend. Right. I appreciate that, and I will get back to you as soon as possible. We had two other people working on this, and they both renapped. So it's up to us to fill up the gap.
Anything else? Any questions about the tour?
Okay. And if these people are supposed to come, the reenactors are supposed to come from Vogue Theater. But if we run short, is anybody willing to take a script? Remember, it's only for five minutes. Is there a costume? Make your own. Make your own if you want a costume. I don't know if it's a spooker. You know, would Lisa be willing to do it? Because she's so fabulous. Have you been on a tour with her? No. I used to do the tours, the third grade. And she's just phenomenal. Well, what I was going to say is we also talked to Sudbury, which has done a number of tours. And she said her people just went in the closet and made up something that inspired you to think of that time period. It wasn't necessarily exact for that time period. So if you were a soldier, maybe you had on a white shirt with a vest that hung open and, you know, dark pants and your big clothed copper shoes that you walked around in or something like that. So it gave you the impression that he was a soldier, a Minuteman at that particular time. That's what it would be.
Well, thank you all for stepping up. I appreciate it. And I'm going to excuse myself. Can you take it from here? Thank you so much. Great.
Okay. Next is a joint program with the HRDEIC Group, Human Relations and Diversity. Human Rights. This is Human Rights, Diversity, Inclusion, Inclusion Committee.
Well, they reached out to us and they asked us if we could do something with Native Americans. Okay, we already discussed this once. Have they reached out again? No. What we have decided on was a speaker from Sudbury who talks about the Native Americans in Sudbury, which seemed pretty close to home since we were Sudbury. This is what they wanted to work on or sponsor? This is what they wanted to sponsor, but we have to get approval first. I'm moving closer to you because she was blocking the sunlight in my eyes. Right. So we finally have that person's name. Okay. And we have contact information. Before we contacted her, we wanted to be sure that we had the board's approval because it may cost money from our budget on it. And so they want to sponsor. They have no budget whatsoever. So if there's a payment, it would be basically us, I think. So what are they really doing then? I mean, they would be sponsoring it and doing publicity on it. And they would hopefully find a venue for it. This is what I'm going to tell them. Because I found the person and I've heard the person speak.
She is an actress, but I think she's a new actress. She's not polished. Let's put it that way. But she did research and she is a Native American. So it seemed to me kind of appropriate. From a local nation? Yes. I meant to print that out and I forgot. I mean, I started looking for it and then also other things came up and I got distracted. I'm sorry. But she was part of the Sudbury Library who did a deep dive onto Cato. And she cannot find a Cato anywhere in any record. And so she talks about that. She talks about other Native Americans that were here. I mean, when you say she cannot find, in what way? Well, she, through her contacts in the Native American and Indigenous people community, they cannot find any oral records or any other kind of records that talk about him. Well, that's probably because it was, it was the Westerners who called him Cato. Probably. So he had a Native name. But this is her deep dive as an Indigenous person trying to research Indigenous people in particularly Sudbury, which is also this side of the river. And it just seemed to be appropriate that while we're recognizing the 250th, what came before this and how did we get here? And whether you choose to look at it as we did it deliberately and precisely according to our laws or whether, you know, they didn't understand what we were doing. I've heard talk to both sides of the fence and I'm just sitting right in the middle. I'm not taking one side or the other, but this would be a person that they would be interested. Now, do we know what the budget is? I do not. Because we had talked about also needing boxes. Right. So I do need that. I've talked to Kelsey. I needed to know the budget too to see how much I approved today and amount I can go up to. And so what is in our funds right now? I don't know. That's, but I... You say you have to talk to her. Well, I wanted... No, I have talked to Kelsey about making the order and she said, just get it into me. But before I made the order, I had to know how much I could order in terms of financial figures. Right. So my question is, have you asked anybody what the funds are? I wouldn't know who to ask. You would go to finance and ask them. No, I didn't. And ask him what it is. I thought I had just permission of you and I figured somebody knew.
No, you don't need our permission. The committee? I thought I did. Before I made the order. To make the order, but not to find out how much... Oh, no. I just assumed somebody... It's something new. So anyway, I don't think we spent that much money. I think the last time we spent money was maybe for October Festival would be the last time we spent any money. So there should be... Well, we should have also the money that we collected at the Deborah Sampson. I mean, it wasn't specifically designated that committee. We just said, this is an idea we have about a historical plaque at the Cotituate Ball Field and people gave money. So, I mean, that's supposed to be in our fund. We should work and see if it really went into our fund. It hasn't gone into the fund because Brian hasn't been... When I was available, Brian wasn't available. So it's sitting in my refrigerator.
It's just sitting there and getting cold. Cold cash. But yes, because I wanted to be sure that it went into a line for us that doesn't end in June because they took all the money back in June that we don't spend. And this is not that kind of money. So I have to set up line items. Keep it on ice. So anyway, I think that there is enough money there for a speaker and the boxes. I mean, do we have a rough idea of how much you charge us? No, because we didn't reach out to her until we knew that we were interested in asking her because it's kind of rude to say, oh, yeah, okay, no, thanks. We're not interested in you kind of thing. Sure. So first, I need to know whether or not you want to pursue this. And if push comes to shove, before we touch the donated money, I could go to the 250th and ask them if they'll help pay for it. Since the whole idea of the 250 is not just the year that they sign, but everything before and after. Okay. Are you sure that this woman is available? No. First, I have to find out if we want her. Then we will find out if she's available. Well, I gave up on the person I was pursuing because I kept getting dates from the library that were good for her to come. And she just didn't choose any of them. She was too busy. Yes, I remember that. Now that we know that the First Parish is interested in giving free meeting space, we can always go and ask them. If it's a 250th, we can go to the COA and ask them and not be charged for, because it's a town function. And it's two boards doing it, not just one. And so there's possibility of where to meet the dates might be a little bit more open because we have choices now between the two locations. And it's a matter of deciding whether or not we want to pursue it, A, and then B, going ahead and trying to set it up. So what's our interest in pursuing? Do we want to pursue? I mean, we've been invited to do a joint project with the group, the HRDEIC. And this, instead of us running a program, we can create this program that someone else could give. It's a good topic, more like a program. But I think it's a good idea. I agree. It sounds like a good idea.
Everybody want to make them know? How about a motion? Someone make a motion? Someone move that we pursue this Native American speaker for the joint project with HRDEIC. So moved. Brad moves it. Is there a second?
Okay. Tanya and Amanda, and any other discussion? Okay. Do we have a vote? The crowd should be by hand. Yes. Yes, yes. It's unanimous by all members. Now that we've agreed, we're waiting for the HRDEIC to also approve at their meeting. So then the two of us can work together. Okay. That sounds good. So what are they proposing? The same thing, but they have to also agree to go ahead with the project, just like we just did on our motion. In other words, they're bringing the motion to their group, just as I did for this group. For the same Native American? Yes. Okay. Brad, House Black's report? Nothing. Nothing. Okay. Cemetery project report. Cemetery project. I've met with Kelsey in terms of rebidding the project. She's prepared to, and the idea is we're going to take the original bid documents and use those as the template. And Kelsey is prepared to move on it quite quickly to do it. I've also been communicating with Josh and Rachel from Epic, and what I've asked them to do is to take the original survey that they did and to mark up that survey to show the various stones that were completed so that new bidders will have a precise scope of work. Josh said he's willing to do that. I think that's by eight or ten days ago, he said he would do that. He's going to start working on it immediately. I'll follow up with him, and as soon as he's done, I would get that proposal to Kelsey. Kelsey said she'd put together the bid package. I'll review it, and, Cherian, you can look at it as well. And then once that's prepared, it'd be sent out for bid. The big question, of course, is what's the price going to be when it comes in? We just don't know. But I think it'll be more than we have left. We won't know until we get to bids.
Okay. Sounds good. Any questions for Brad? Anything else on that? Okay. Next, archaeology lab report. Not much has been going on because we've had to cancel, like, how many days? Four, five days lately. The last two Wednesdays. And so we haven't been in there.
So there's nothing really to report on that. Except you have a list of what you want box-wise ready to go. Yeah, I'm in communication with her. I guess I'll go to the finance on my way out. Okay. But I think maybe if we could, can we create a vote ahead of time? So I can just put in the order that you were within budget? Wasn't it already approved? But I don't think we approved a budget number, did we? No, we did not on the number of boxes. You mean on the price? Or even on the price. We didn't talk price. Last time we talked, what size boxes, whether you wanted one big one that could go into it or whether you wanted individual smalls.
So is there, should we create a motion? Well, how much, let me ask you this. How much did it add up to? I haven't actually looked at how much it would add up to. I got the site from her. It was a different, she ordered them from a different site than I had thought she did. So I thought we used Gaylord. When I looked at the boxes, they say Gaylord. But she said that it's a different site in her communication to me. So you don't even have an outline of what, how much? It adds up to using Gaylord. So we have any pricing to go by. I mean, I can back into it. It will be very easy to do. If I knew I had $300, then, you know, I can back into it and figure it out. I didn't think that would cover it, but I don't know for sure. So we can say, we can put a motion now to up to $300 if you think that's a cover it. Unless the prices went great on her website, unless the prices are really different. I don't really understand. I need to look at her website because it says Gaylord right on our boxes. Who is it? Kelsey. Kelsey. I would have to look it up. Well, let's choose up to a certain maximum amount. That way you don't have to wait until next month or in a meeting in two weeks to make a decision. Is that okay? Yeah. I mean, I can order some now and order more later if it's not enough, if we still have money in the budget. So I make a motion that we allow up to $300 to purchase archival storage units for the archaeology lab. And bags. Right. They will be storage units. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Brad. Any further discussion or questions? Okay. Then we will vote. Let's vote by voice. Tonya. Yes. Okay. Yes. Amanda. Rick. Yes. Brad. Yes. He. Yes. Who's me. Who's me. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Rick. Railroad and Rail Trail Signage. And I wonder if Marie is still with us.
Marie Eisenberg. Yes. Marie. There you are. Whoops.
I'm sorry. This has been a long meeting so far. So welcome. Marie contacted me yesterday about the idea of the culture. Marie's a member of the cultural council about the idea of a bench next to the sign along the rail trail at the depot. Is that correct? Correct, Marie? Can you hear me? We can't. We can't hear you. I think you're on mute. Unmute.
Now I can hear you. Not loud enough. Not loud enough. I can't hear you. Oh, wait a minute. She's going to try turning up the.
Is it up in the upper corner? Is there a sound on there? Sarah, but I don't want to make it.
Try again. Oh, just there. Look at the thing. See? Oh, no. I'm going to. Turn it up. Now try talking, Marie. Can you hear me now? Yes. Good. Okay. I don't hear you as well, but my speakers. Okay. I had to unplug my speaker. Okay. Stop in the hallway.
We're just turning you down a bit because of the door to the hallway. Okay.
Super. Try that. Can you hear us now, Marie? Yes. Okay. Perfect. Marie contacted me yesterday by email about the idea of the cultural council to install a bench next to the sign at the depot. I called Marie this morning and sent an email. I copied Bonnie Gossels, who is the coordinator for the rail trail signs. And so, as I explained in my email, the signs that are to be installed along the rail trail from the depot west, my understanding is that they will not be installed until after the, that part of the rail trail, which is currently stone dust, will be paved by PCR and mass DOT. And my understanding is that that's not supposed to be done until next year at the earliest. The other signs along the rail trail will be installed as soon as they're fabricated, as soon as the foundations are installed. And the town has a, my understanding, a contract with a company to install the foundations and to arrange for the fabrication of the signs. So, some of the signs will include benches and not all of the signs, but the foundations for the benches will be installed at the same time as the foundations for the signs. So, I don't know when that work can take place, but the best person to contact on that is Bonnie Gossel, who is working with our commission, with the historical society, with the town town public buildings director, and Kelsey, the assistant town manager, to arrange for the work that can be done this year.
Okay. All right. So, I, I'm sure this has to be some flexibility here. If I speak to Bonnie, I can get specifics on what's still open or needed. I'm going to go take a look at the south of Old Sudbury Road, excuse me, west of Old Sudbury Road, and see what's there. But I'm more than happy to talk to Bonnie. I need to find out whether the planning process is done, and I want to make sure to be clear to bring to the council whatever planning is already in the works so that we meet whatever plans that you have. So, I think I can take it from here unless you have something else to suggest, and I'll make sure that whatever we have to offer matches what they need at this point. Okay. Okay. Well, I don't believe the sign that's proposed to be installed next to the depot will include a bench. There is a bench, a wooden bench adjacent to the parking lot entrance to the depot, which was being repaired last fall by the town. I don't know if those repairs have been completed and the bench has been reinstalled yet. But there's also a stone slab bench inside the traffic island at the entrance to the depot, which hasn't got much to mention. So, Bonnie would know whether a bench is proposed as part of a sign at the depot. So, I don't believe it is, but she has the specifications for the other benches to be installed at the signs along the rail trail, but some of them will have benches also. She has those specifications. Yes, I definitely like the idea of definitely moving what you've already done along, brother. I wasn't clear that what the sourcing from our end would be. So, I'm very happy to hear that you have a plan and a specific design in mind. So, I'll be happy to get that information and relay it back to the council. Great. Because that design is based on DOT standards, isn't it, Rick? DCR. DCR standards. Benches are designed by DCR. Very good. Yes. Rick, have you told her about the 2005 thing on our website, the report, so that she can see what the interpretive site would be like? So, if you go to our historical permissions website on the town website, look under a railroad interpretive site, you will see several reports that you can download about the history of the railroad site, the depot, the landscape design report that our commission had prepared in 2005 for a railroad interpretive site. It was a conceptual report at that time. We have completed many elements of that since 2005 using a combination of volunteers and town community preservation act, historic preservation fund. So, many of those elements in that report have been completed. Other things have not been completed yet. So, I invite you to take a look at those reports. Very good. I'll do that. Yeah. Maria, I was going to say, you may find, instead of a bench, you may find some things in that interpretive site that you might want to participate with as well. Yes, I will propose that to the, at our next meeting. I'll have all that to present at the next meeting. At our next meeting. Oh, Avi had been participating in some of the early meetings that we had on the design of the rail trails, but she has not been involved more recently. We have a design for the signs, pen signs, and we are, as soon as the Castlegate and Dudley Wood signs are finalized, then those will go into production. And we hope that some of those signs will be installed this year, but not the signs west of Old Sudbury Road at the depot. Yes. Okay. And some of the benches will be installed at other points east of the depot. Okay. So, your commission council might want to participate in funding some of those. If Bonnie, please, that's a good idea. Okay. I will definitely propose that. And I'll have, as you say, I'll look at your reports and we'll look at the checklist and see what works and see what contribution. But we'll definitely check back with you and let, well, Bonnie will know and then we can know what kind of communication we should do. So, you'll be aware of where we are with this. Very good. Okay, Marie. All right. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sorry to make you sit through such a long meeting before we reach this point. No problem. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome to continue to hold on. Yeah, I will. I'll do it myself, though. Okay. We have a design of the rail trail signs that I'm describing as version eight that were sent out before our last meeting. And I haven't heard any further comments from anyone about these. I have no further comments. I haven't heard from Bonnie. So, I think, as far as I know, the version eight of the rail trail signs are pretty much ready. Well, Tom Fay has already sent them to DCR. Okay. Do we know if DCR has responded yet? That I do not know. Okay. I haven't heard any either. But, um, one of the signs, uh, the one at the freight house, uh, during the design process, if anyone remembers the discussion of the, uh, car track barcodes. Yes. That were, um, headed up by Frank Stikes. And I just saw on the Wayland Historical Commission, uh, Carol news that his wife Carol was an aviator, very interesting person. Yes. I looked for a picture of Frank there, but I didn't find it. No. No. But anyway. This is women's month. Not men's month. We went back and forth over the design of the, uh, actual, uh, plaque that was affixed to, um, railroad cars in the 1970s. Within the past couple of weeks. I have found an actual UCI channel. Wow. This is a long story, but a longtime friend of mine who passed away 10 years ago was part of the project that marketed these. These. Oh, interesting. To the railroad. That passed through. I agree. She said no. Did you see it? For the audience. So this was a huge audience. To the side of railroad cars. And this was an early type of barcode. Uh, and there were readers alongside the railroad tracks. That would scan these panels to determine the car number, the car owner. And, um, so this was used throughout the 1970s to identify railroad cars nationwide. And in Canada and other places. Like town. The problem was that after, in what were time. Like a barcode. The mud, the dirt, uh, reduced the reflectivity on sign. And the rate of reading these barcodes declined to the point that the railroads gave up on them. Today, railroads use a different type of technology, which is radio frequency identification, RFID tags. Which is similar. Oh, thank you. You see. Oh, it's up there on the camera. What's, what's used, uh, for automatic tolling on railroads. That uses a chip and a reader at high speed. And also the same technology that's used to, uh, identify your pet. If you choose to embed a chip in your pet. So that it can be identified. So this was. Amazing. This lasted for maybe 10 years. And, um, ultimately was not successful. So this is part of the history. It's my railroad history. In my history. Frank designed that. He was part of the team that designed that. So I'll be interested in, uh, Frank's. And also, uh. He helped build the airplane he built. Right? The two of them built the airplane. I, I also obtained some technical manuals. So if anybody wants to know anything about car track. Automatic car identification. I have a whole carton of stuff. It came out of the house of a long time friend of mine. Who I did not know at the time. Was involved with this project. But when his sons started to clean out this house in Concord, Massachusetts. He uncovered these things. Yeah. Cool. So, um. Other than the possibility of another annual brush clearing. Okay. I have nothing else to talk about. About the railroad and rail trail. So you need to get that, um, brush clearing to Scarlett. So she can get it in the newsletter. Okay. Because it's the first weekend in May. So she needs to get it into the next newsletter that will go out in April. Yeah. So people are aware. Yeah. No, I realized that there's a conflict with the house tour on Sunday. Yes. But. We started the brush clearing just on Saturday. And then rain days and other events. So we made it a two day weekend event. And if people want to do the house tour on Sunday, they can come on Saturday. Sure. You want to go, um, the town manager's newsletter. Yes, absolutely. Okay. So that's Jalen. You're going to send it to Jalen. Yes. And the suggestion was made last month. And the suggestion was made last month that we write up something for the way on the post. Right. Yes. Great. And then, and, and, and offered to do the poster, right? Uh, she did at the last meeting. Yes. So maybe you might ask her to write something up for the poster for Jalen to just insert. Okay. Last thing is matters not reasonably anticipated by me. So, uh, Brad brought in his report on, uh, the one Oh five plane road evaluation. Uh, so we put that in the file. A lot. I brought the two copies. Uh, Kay was the only one who responded to the two letters that I wrote about the brochure that town put out and we saw last month. Um, so those are ready to be filed. Um, so the letter was sent. Yes. I sent a letter to the members of select board and one to Brian McCall. Did you get a response? No, I did not. I really wasn't expecting one. Did you say Brian McCall? I did. So I got the wrong name. Michael. Michael. No wonder he didn't get it. No wonder he didn't get it. Oh, I don't know where that one went. Gee. You know what? I know a Brian McCall. I guess I'll send that one again. Anyway, I put it in their mailbox. So I don't know what they did with it. Okay. I'll have to redo that. Sorry about that. Oh, and, um, then the other thing is we had a little homework assignment from the last meeting to, um, start a list of, uh, spots of historical interests that we thought if we did a historical brochure of our own, that we would want to include. And I went last year when I was over in Natick, I'll pass this down quickly. You can see their idea of what they do with Natick history. And I also brought the one from Audubon because it's colorful and their format for, um, brochures. So I started a list. Did anybody come up with anything that we could put in a history brochure? I mean, only the obvious things. Yeah. Oh, right. I, I think. Yeah. Go ahead. Um, other than the obvious, there's, there's Herd Farm. I, I feel like that's a nice spot with the apple trees and thought of that one. And what are the obvious things? Well, the two cemeteries and all the historic homes and the historic section of town. Right. First parish church. Yeah. And, and Natick has a map of the historic Natick center from way back when. So. Cochituate, bird's eye view, and a bird's eye view of the Weyland town center. Um, historic center. Yeah. The noise, Paris house, or shield factories. And that was big. You're thinking of industry in town. You would need something to point to, I think, just, but this is a walking. This is a, a tour though, a self-setting tour kind of, right? With things you're proud of about the town or something, or is it just things you're proud of that, that you're excited about that it happened? What, which is it? I don't know. It would be, if we did something, it'd be whatever we wanted to make it to be. Uh, we were just disappointed that history. Oh, no. Yeah. And the one. The town did. So we were starting to think of things that. Secure. Pinpoint. And, and entice people to come here because of our food. So, I mean, that was the direction I was. Okay. So all the bridges. Our arch bridges. Um, I mean, I'd even go with Sherman's Bridge. Did you know there was a whales grid? Whales? No. Yes, whales. I did not know. There was a tiny little one at the top of Pell Pond. Oh. It got replaced with a, for modern grid. It was very small. We do have a portrait. Do you think? A painting of it. Not a portrait. Painting of it. At the museum. So we had another arch bridge. It was a single arch. I believe. Marie, I have a question for you. If. Yes. We were talking about doing a brochure of historic sites in Wayland. Is that something that could be considered as a cultural council grant? If we would apply for that? Yes. Perfect. It would be fiscal. Let me try again. Fiscal year 26 is closed since January. Right. But you certainly could look for it for next year. Right. Well, I just was wondering because we have a very small budget. And so. We do too. But yes. But certainly, please do. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you for saying to answer my question. Okay. No problem. I think we need a bigger budget. So. Good luck to you. Okay. So we've got a start of a list. By the noise Paris house, which is our oldest house in town. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Noise Paris house. Yes. Because it's the oldest house in town. And the local house is the oldest in Cuchichuit. And the local. Okay. Yeah. I love that local one. I, I, I, it's not that I don't love the noise Paris. It's just, you can't see it from the road. So. We get excited. And the Depot, which is kind of a, a logo for, for sure. For sure. For sure. Um, you know, any number of things, our taverns. The taverns. The taverns. The taverns that are. Oh yeah. The Reeves Tavern. Yeah. The Reeves, there's, there's a whole bunch. At one point we had 12 taverns in town. That's way back in the day. So anyway, so we'll start a list. And if you think of some others, you know, we can keep adding. And if we think to do something with this idea. We'll. I think this is very cool. I think that's cool too. Their, their brochure. I like, and I like the. It's horrible. Just be different. What was the other brochure that you mentioned? Oh, this is Audubon. Okay. Which is, is a very different format. It's, um, what. Audubon is. And then how you are part of that. And there's three sections of it. It's the way they list it, but it's colorful. And. And it's just a, another approach to brochures. That. It's. It's definitely lower costs in terms of. Yes. Yes. So. Okay. Anything else under matters, not reasonably anticipated. Yes. I have one. Okay. When. Talked to Mike. Fair. It facilities. And he has taken over the. Historical sign. At stonebridge. And he has asked me to work with him on that. So I will be working with him on that. At the moment. The format is a. Like a timeline. Because so many things happen over the years there. And it's just simpler to. You know. When it was built. When Knox went over. It went to Rosa. So on and so forth. Again, like Anne said, keeping it brief, but yet. Giving out information where possible. So. That's the format at the moment. If the difficult thing will be deciding which. Photographs to put around. And he. Will be contacting Carol holds. As a possible designer. For the project as well. So it'll be all cohesive of the. Same kind of. Style. So that will that be funded by facilities. And what is our involvement. It is funded by them. The involvement is my participation in the design of the. Sign. Right. And they came to us. Several meetings ago. When we met down in the old COA room. And. Brought the thoughts and. And so forth. And kind of some tentative. Stuff of their layout of what they thought they might include. But they kind of. Wanted our. Input. At that time. And so we did give that. And I was able to. Give them. Some historical photographs. And. Current ones. Of the. Rebuilding of the bridge. So they could start from. At least. The 1955 hurricane. Which caused. The. Framingham. To take out the banking. So that we no longer connected. Are there any maps. With Sherman's bridge written on it. I'm sure. I'm sure there are maps. Whether it's written on it or not. I don't know. But. We just started. I mean. He just asked him two days ago. That's all I have. I went in and. To ask him if there was an update on it. And that's when he asked me to participate. So. Okay. Well. If nothing else. I. Entertain. And motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All those in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Yes. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.
Yes, you were. You came in so quietly, I just threw you.
Yes, thank you. Thank you for coming. Are you wishing at some point to have something to say? I'm going to make a public comment. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Yes, let's do it now. My name is Doug Stotts. I live at Turning Tank. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information. I want to offer an update for the historical information about the promise pieces of our district, 1743. I want to be sure of the bridge. I want to please report that the mainland is a sub-grade DP.DOT.U. So fishing and mass offers such a distensation. It needs a steel-back wooden guard rail, in place of a steel guard rail on the last test of a single that's on the bridge. And with that special distensation being resolved, I think we have a current design for the bridge that just about makes it just about as historically authentic and character as the bridge that's been there since 1992. That's good news. That's great. Excellent. I want an update. As you know, the Fishnet's article's deadline was January 8th. There was still a lot more on that. We must find this . And so on January 8th, I submitted the Fishnet's article that the public will be the annual town meeting of laws and regulations that was going to be in the law. And that article reads this. German's Bridge is to be forever maintained and entirely with the practical, in keeping with its historical appearance in 1743. No structural metal material is left anywhere in the bridge structure, while metal fastenings are acceptable. Any metal crash barriers, guard routes, et cetera, must be entirely covered by wood to maintain the historical appearance and character. Any exposed wearing surface on the roadway shall be exposed solely with natural, not inferior to wood, but no other material is acceptable. That's the end of the article. I want to let the commission know there will be favorable developments on the bridge design. There's a question of, you know, whether I would draw the article on fire. The historical commission thinks this is a good idea and to have historical records on the issue services again, around the year, you know, 65 or so. We're all on record. Or whether you'd like to compose a similar article of your own devising for submission after annual accounting 127, the urgency you could have done right away, perhaps not the verbal a couple months ago, but I'll put that in the picture. My final points are that while the verbal expressions that current bridge divide make me believe the design is acceptable, as we've learned with the infamous 1971 nature of the agreement and other issues, it always makes sense to get it in the right. So perhaps the Whelan Historical Commission, perhaps the working of the Sudbury and Whelan may want to consider sending a letter to the municipal project team of the Sudbury and Whelan DPWs, asking you and perhaps the Sudbury Commission to formally can fail in a letter of the bridge's proposed design elements, and also three items, which are not any set of plans that they submitted to MassDOT in May, February, for the final approval, but which I think are important both to the outcome of the bridge overall and to its historical design and character. The first of those would be the historic kiosk, which they said they will do in collaboration with the Cadillac Parks and Sudbury. That's to be on the way inside of the bridge. A very nice enhancement, which both DPW directors started to promise, but isn't yet in the plans, is to put a conduit on the underside of the bridge during reconstruction. So the current fiber optic lines, the Whelan and Comcast and Verizon, can be moved out the telephone poles on either end of the bridge, can be ratted into the conduit and make the view ahead a lot better. Important to note, I think too, it's actually pretty simple to do that, because as those of us who literally have lived at the end of the line, pretty interesting, we now have it generated because of it. We are the end of the line for Boston Edison. That's just how long I've been here. I didn't know it ever sourcing.
And no 13,000-volt power lines go over there. It's just the fiber optics or internet cable. And then the final point, and it's very interesting, there's, you know, a lot of people look at the sky with the river Borealis like it starts off the bridge. And there's currently a 1992 streetlight on the pole on the sun gray side, which does not look historic at all. And it would be wonderful to have that replaced with a low profile, modern, energy of kitchen, dark sky, and light speedlight. And interestingly, I found out this morning that as of January 1st, Matt Scott, including the mandator, used only dark sky and light light pictures that have behind us. So it was with me, even somewhere reaching my suggestions, please request the historical commission. But overall, I'm also pleased to report that it's been very, very favorable products. I'm a good product. Good. Any questions for Doug? Doug, I guess I won the town article. It's interesting and it sounds like a good idea. What would happen though, if say Wayland adopted it, but Sudbury doesn't, then what happens? Well, everything needs to be done by a unanimous vote of the two panels. So I guess Sudbury is wrong. You know, Wayland does veto power. Oh, okay. Okay. I guess I'm wondering what's more effective to have town article or to have the two respective DPWs enter into some sort of agreement? I think the town article expresses the responsibility of our employees to deal with more effective. Okay. Thank you. Do you have a copy of the article? Uh, I can give you my notes. Yeah. For, well, we were looking for it, for the, put in our archive, our archives, that I'm all, and it's easier also for us to critique, if we can actually see what's on the papers. Okay. You can email that into the book, Mitch. Okay. That was great. And I'd also see that does clear talking about a submission to the archives that might be useful to somebody, to see what's in the book. You never know. We have bad feelings. It's great. Okay. Thank you for all your work on this. So good. Thank you. Incredible. And very time-consuming, as we all know. So we appreciate what you've done. And your team, and your neighbors, and everybody else. That's great. Thank you. Okay, well. Nothing else I wish you all had good. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Do we need any most of the letter requested? Right. Is there discussion on us sending a letter to the municipal project team concerning these three details? Could you talk a little bit louder? Yep. Thank you. Is there any discussion on his request that the commission send a letter to the municipal project team? I think it would be nice to do, to follow up on all of Doug's work. And to have a record in our file. And in writing from the team. I don't know what other people think. The three issues are the kiosk, which has been talked about and agreed upon verbally, but not in writing. The conduit for under the bridge, for the fiber optics. And replacing the 1993 street light with a dark sky component or bulb. So those are the three areas that apparently have been discussed and agreed to, but have not been written into the details of the plan at this point. Well, I mean, some of them aren't specifically historical in nature, right? So, but I would, I would like to get something in writing from them. So maybe how we craft the email or the letter. Okay. I think you could, or you could argue that all three are, have a historic angle to them. Certainly the kiosk, the conduit would restore some of the historic. That one, yes, I agree. Ambiance of the bridge. Yes, yes. The wires out of the skyline. I agree.
And the third. Well, if the third is already in law, is that what you said? We're already in law. I just said it's a reminder. Yeah. Maybe it looks like it was a lot of historic. Thank you, sir. Reminders. That's right. But.
Well, if our group feels such, I think we should have a motion to make it official in our minutes.
Would anyone? So moved. Okay. Kay moves the motion to write a letter to the municipal project team. Is there a second? Definitely. Okay. Amanda? Brad? All those in favor? All those in favor? We are being courted, so we better go around with a voice vote. Okay? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And yes. And yes.
We will take care of doing that. All right. Thank you. I'll just leave this with you. So it's in case it's of any help. Yes. Thank you, Rep. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Then we're back to the minutes.
Anything anyone noticed? I have one little thing on the front, if no one else had mentioned it. And first paragraph under public comment, the last date should be 2025, not 2026. Oh, good, Kelly. Yes. Or when we sent a last letter of concern. Right.
And on page two, you notice a yellow highlight. I didn't catch the last name of this person we discussed. Who, Tanya, this person, some artifacts were recovered from her garden. Yeah. And you were talking about trying to get them back from UMass. What was her name? Yeah.
I hear Joe. Is that Joe Gossels? No. It was something like that, but that wasn't a name I didn't say. Is it Joe Gossels? Joe Gossels. Gossels. G-O-S-E-L-T. She used to be curator at the historical site. All right. Great. Thank you.
I wondered if that was it, but I didn't know for sure, so I wasn't going to comment on it. Yeah, you have to.
Oh, yes, I can. Okay.
Anything else on the minutes? Then, is there a motion to accept the minutes as corrected? So moved. Accept second. Okay. All those in favor? Raise your hand. Visually, we're on the camera. Approving the minutes. Approving the minutes. Approving the minutes. Good. Unanimous. Thank you. Trade places. You want to trade places with me? Yeah, that's wonderful. Next up is a correspondence received concerning the Gardner School, and there was a chance that he was going to be on the Zoom. I don't know how we know that, but Kay has some information about his email that came in. You mentioned I'm emailing you. About the Gardner School. Yes, I know. I'm trying to think what that was. I didn't bring it with me. Sorry. Oh, this gentleman, did you all reach? It came to HC members, so it came to your town email. Do you remember reading it? Yeah. So on Commonwealth Ave, there's a house behind the nursing home, and they apparently want to build a preschool there. So because we have the demolition delay article up on our webpage, he thought it had been approved, so he was reaching out to see what he had to do in order to get approval for tearing down the existing house. It's a two-family house that's there, and I believe it was built by a shoemaker, and I informed him that we really didn't have a demolition delay. It failed by two votes. So I said, we might write a letter of concern, and if he had any questions, he could join our meeting and ask them, and that is the gist of the conversation.
So you spoke with him? I called him just because I was confused as to why he was asking about demolition delay, and I figured I would just go right to the source and find out. And they're not planning this for a long time. He was doing his due diligence by researching what was required for the town of Weyland, but that's as far as the conversation went. I told him he was free to join us. He indicated he would. It may be like... When I was on... Yes, going down to... The system, there should be a way for us to see calls coming in, but yeah, I thought I had at one time... At the moment, Madam Chair, I... Oh, you're up there. We just can't see you on our screen. I'm here remotely. I just wanted to let you know that we don't have any other attendees other than the one that I mentioned to you already. So I don't see him, is what I'm saying.
He does not see the gentleman on... All right, what about the person that's already on, though? Who is that already on? So there's a Marie Eisenberg that is attending the meeting and watching it. But she didn't want to be put on? Is that what he said? I mean, I don't believe so. I mean, if... I suppose if they wanted to... That's your... That's the Marie that's responded with Rick. Okay. For the railroad. Right. We get to that. Come up under the rail trail. Okay. Yes. Thank you. So I don't see anything later. If Marie can hang in there, it's going to be a while before we get to the rail trail and signage and benches. I hear her because I don't think he let her on.
Is that something that you would, guys, that you want me to add her on to the... Yes, I think... Can we move it? You're the chair. You're telling me whether or not you want to let her in now. No, we'll let her in now. That's fine. She can listen until we get to the railroad.
But could the Gardner school person identify himself? I don't think he's on. He's not on. Apparently. That's what he was saying. Okay. Right. Only Marie is on. I'm just curious. Can you see this building from the road? The building that the Gardner school wants to tear down? Oh, yes. Yes. And it's an 1885 to 87 period house. It was built for the shoe workers, we think. And does not have a plaque. What's the actual number? I don't remember. It's not a number either. But it's in our email. It's right behind Royal Weyland Nursing Home, except it faces Commonwealth Road. So it's the next building, next lot behind the nursing home. It's fairly long. There's quite a bit of acreage in it compared to other house lots in that area. And there was a building behind there that they believe was used to make shoes. Maybe that's correct. Yes. Okay. Well, we just wanted everyone to be aware that this is a proposal. In the future, I don't know whether the property is up for sale at the moment or whatever. But he did contact us, so we'll keep it in the loop. So you should look at your email because it's the house. It's okay. I'll figure it out. And there is a building back there that could have possibly have been a 10 by 10 thing, but I don't know.
Okay. Well, let's move on from the Gardner School. And I want to move up the Castlegate and Dudley Woods signs because Anne needs to leave at 2.30. So, Anne? Thank you very much. I appreciate the rearrangement. I sent you all copies of these a couple of days ago that I just received from Carol. So, this is our opportunity to make comments. I want to consolidate all of our feedback so that we are very efficient with Carol's time. And hopefully, we won't have, you know, too many rounds of feedback.
So, what you have, the first two sheets, she just did the same sign in two different color styles because she wanted to give us a look at how it looked in different shades. But the content of those two is the same. The Dudley Woods sign, there are two. One focuses on the naturescape. And one focuses on the history. And so, I'm open to hear your comments on any or all aspects of these.
Oh, no. They're two different. They're just in two different color schemes. So, it's the same. Okay. That's what you're saying. Which side is going to talk about. It's so subtle. I didn't even see that. It is subtle. The only thing I had was, I don't know if the left might go in parentheses, I found it a little confusing. I'm sorry. What are you talking about? I thought we were talking about. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Ann, which sign do you want to talk about for a story? It doesn't matter to me. No, I meant you said Dudley Woods. And I'm just, which Dudley Woods sign do we want to talk about? Oh, all right. Okay. So, she's left some spaces for photo captions. These are not sentences. These are literally just captions. Okay. And I'm a little unclear on the placement of the third one to the right, what it is referring to. So, that's a question that I have for her.
Oh, nothing. It's not until we get to the cast will be all done. I think it's well done. I mean, I know you put a lot of time into it. I think it's very well done. This is a colorful history. Yes. And I did it that the caption was referring to the upper photo simply because there's already a caption related to the lower photo. That's right. I think it's great. Okay. Why don't we start with you? Okay. Of course. You just get under the light. I love the water. The way she chose the water for the upper, you know. Yeah. Or a texture that looks like water. Yeah. Well, the first thing is there are no photos of the camps. You talk about the camps, but there's no photo of the camps. And the picture of the two rowboats in the pond seems sort of redundant to me because this week had talked about going toward the pond and where you will see the pond. So it's more important to see historically that there were all these little camps around the pond and looking at a pond in a picture and then looking out at the pond itself was just my comment on that. Let's see. Oh, and I think out of proper usage, I think we need to contact Bobby Lee's family who still lives here in Wayland, whether or not they approve of using her photo or whatever, especially since we identify her. Yeah. So I agree with you. I intend to contact them, but I didn't want to contact them until I got your feedback. Yeah, because if you don't like the photo, then it's not my favorite, but it's okay. Yeah. Such a cute suit. Yeah. She is a cute lady there. She's actually living native when this picture was taken. I love the blue color, but I'm not enamored with the empty blue space up at the top.
Maybe the pictures could be more centered or something. I don't know. And add another photo up there. And it's hard to judge how readable that map is at the bottom because we don't see the large sign. But I like the map and I know maps look better on darker colors. So those are basically my comments on it. Okay.
It's Dorothy Lee. What? Who is Dorothy Lee? Dorothy Lee lived up with the head of my road and her husband worked for the DPW, no, the water department. And his daughter lives now on Ravine Road. Right. Right behind the house where the ladies lived. Well, why is she on here? What? Why is she on here? Well, that's a good question. I mean, it could be anyone. But she did live her adult life here in Kachituit. So she's in Weyland by marriage. I think it's just an image of a 1940s lady enjoying her leisure time at the pond. Just the way we have, you know, the ice skaters on the panel, the rail trail panel. Oh, that's right. And it just happens that we can identify that photograph rather than leaving it as an unknown person. I think it's adorable. I just wondered if she had some special status or something. No, she is not. Other than she was a very nice lady who did a lot of good for Weyland in her own way.
Go ahead. I agree with Katie that, I mean, my initial reaction is, wow, there's a whole lot of blank space at the upper right corner. Don't we have a lot of additional text or photos that can be used to fill in that space? Also, we have a half of a nice house. That's all we have to have a picture of. I'm sorry.
And also, I'm concerned about the quality of the map at the lower left corner, whether it's actually going to be legible. So, it seems to me we have a lot more material that can be used in the upper right corner.
Just for the record, I find it very relaxing not to have too much text and too much imagery. And I feel like it feels very, if you're going to be in the woods, I kind of liked that extra empty space. Well, I'm not saying that we have to add a picture. I'm just saying maybe we could move it up just a tad so that it isn't such a large area. Yeah. I mean, the placement of, I think Anne was saying, this is a little strange. That, you know, the reading that ice house over, the overlapping is, at the placement, I'm not 100% sure of with the captions. But other than that. Well, Carol did say one of her goals was for it to be easy to access, you know, you're outside, you're recreating. And so, not too much copy. That's always a standard instruction on a sign like this. And, you know, some open space to let it all breathe, is how she put it. So, in my mind also, it's we're paying so much money for this sign that we need to utilize it in the best way possible. And I think that's a big gap of space. And I think it's also a big gap of space on the Dudley Wood, on the nature one, too. What about a QR code? I know we've discussed it before, but this way we could add and take away information in the background, depending on, you know, what we want. If somebody used a QR code, they could learn a lot more. I don't know what they wanted to. I don't know what you're going to add to the QR. Well, I mean, for instance, Rick said more text. So, you know, we could repeat what's here. We could also have bigger and more images that you can follow through a QR code so that this looks beautiful. But if somebody wants to really drill down, they can. Well, when I was talking, I don't know how you're going to put this in your notes, Ian, but what I was talking about is just moving it up an inch or two slightly, not put everything up there. It also adds a little bit more space at the bottom. It doesn't look quite so crowded at the bottom.
If printing goes over the picture, my printing does not. Oh, see, that's what was bothering me. I thought that was weird. Yeah, but see, mine is below the picture. Oh, so that looks better.
It's below the picture. It is below the picture.
Oh, okay. Your blues are too similar. But it did run differently. This is what I ran at home. Yeah, that's what I had to do. It isn't over the print of the Ice House. It looks like it is in the copy you brought in. And notice that it is not over the picture. It's over the frame. It's over the blue frame that lies behind the picture. So it kind of gives you the impression that it's over the picture.
I like the two pictures slightly overlapped. Because I think when you just put pictures side by side by side, it gets very blocky. It's static. Very static. Right. Do I agree with you? It was, yeah. Do we have any pictures of the camps or cabins? Yes. That could be used? Yes. I would think that that would be. Well, CQ has them. I'm not sure she does.
I hate to even talk about this. This whole photo thing has been such a nightmare for you, for me. But I think that's something we need to check on. Because I am not sure she has high resolution images of camps. We may need to. Did you notice when I sent it to you that it also had Carol's address on it as well? No. No, it doesn't come through that way when you're sending it through Google. I don't see who else is. Who else is. Okay. But it was. Yeah. I sent you and Carol at the exact same time. Just so that you know I'm trying. No, I know you did. You took us. But. Well, let me ask you this. I promise not to say anything else, but ask about the photos. Can I call Carol and ask her if she received them? If not, how can I get them to her?
Sure. Yeah, of course.
I just send a nice, simple email.
That's an excellent idea. Because it's not fair to you to keep trying to put the conduit to you with her not being able to get it. It's better if it comes from the source. Right. Agreed. Okay. Anything else on the sign of the setting? Anything about the copy? Are we all set with the words?
Okay. Let's look at the second of the wood sign, the historic and natural setting. Now, I will say this arrowhead, this, I don't know where she got this. We didn't, Brian did not take this photo. I did not give this to her. So, I don't know if that's appropriate or not. You guys would. Yeah. I think we probably have a better photo, don't you, Sonia? The color is unusual. I mean, it's not typical. So, I have a question before we go into that. Is it appropriate to us to kind of emphasize that there may be artifacts there that people should be looking for? Did Brian Harris submit this? No. No. She says she doesn't know where that came from. That's something that Carol, the designer, put in. It's a caption here. Brian Harris. But it isn't Brian's. Okay. The other ones are Brian's, the bird and the dragonfly. But she added that. Carol added that and added the. Well, this could be the one from across from Mahoney's. Mahoney's? At that point. In Boston Post Road. Be surprised if it's Valen's website. There's a point like this up on the website. I don't know where Carol got it. Well, but I think Kay's asking a good question. The question I'm asking is, do we want to emphasize the fact that there might be Indian artifacts there for people to go digging for? Or should we just mention it in the text and not really go into depth about it? I think that would be a better idea. Visually giving them clues kind of thing. Well, I think it's better the way it is. I mean, just reference it as a crossroads for the various tribes. I don't think you want to go into any more detail about perhaps sites being there that people should look for. No, but we didn't mention information. It was something about the cotton been found there. Yeah, I was just talking about the visual picture in the corner. The copy is okay. It's the visual picture kind of fitting home to readers, especially non-text readers. People just look at pictures. Right. That kind of thing. Well, Brian gave me access to dozens and dozens of his hundreds and hundreds of nature photos. We have more to choose from besides this bird and dragonfly, and we won't have any trouble putting our creatures on here. I like the color photos very much. The other thing I wanted to, and again, there's a lot of open space up here, and it's that block image that we were talking about earlier at the bottom. It could be something not of a creature, too. It could be a tree or, you know, a native kind of plane. Right, because when I went back to the CPC to see what the signs were supposed to have, it gave us a list of things that are supposed to be on the signs. It could be something that native people would have used recently. I think that algonquin is spelled wrong. Oh, good point. There are two spellings for algonquin. Oh. I don't know which is the more acceptable. I discovered that. On you? In some research. Well, I will look. We'll check on that. So it says signs will consist of permanent markers at three entrances, parking, and a few markers about history and natural characterization of the land, which we've done. And I also have, I also sent out to you a map, so that maybe, because you had talked about placement, and this is the trail map. Oh, I didn't see that. Was that in your email? Yes. I missed it. And I guess that's what I have for that.
It's under trail signage, $8,000, if you're just looking at the Bible. Okay. It's a page two.
Instead of an arrowhead, maybe we can have a sketch of a dwelling, because people wouldn't be looking for that. You know, the little wigwam type, roundish stuff.
Do we have an image? Do we have a photograph of that? I mean, she has already a lot of things. We have to go get permission. We have one in the case that's back behind the stairwell. I will tell you that my experience on this project is it's very, very hard to get images that are of good enough quality for this kind of project, because they have to be so big in the end. That's why Kay and I have been struggling to get Carol photos with high resolution. So anything we wanted to add would have to be of high enough quality for her to be able to use. Well, maybe we could take a picture, get some photographer to take a picture. Well, we could. Do you have any objection to maybe putting a tree or fauna there? Because we have two, not animals, but living things, and then we don't have anything about the trees or the fauna or anything else that we might put there. Things that they could see if they looked around and saw. And, Tanya, maybe things that the Native people use, like milkweed or something.
That's why I thought about a wigwam might be a good thing. But we don't have a real authentic one. So they could look around and see the milkweed around them after they see it on here. That's what we were saying. Oh, how about nuts? Nuts?
I'd suggest a chipmunk or a squirrel or something, because you've got the trees in the background. You've got plants. You've got a plant in your, essentially with your dragonfly, but you have no animals that people would see if you're out in the woods. And kids might look for. Mm-hmm. That's another thought from Brian's selection of nature stuff.
The initial thought was this looks more like something that the Conservation Commission would put up than the Historical Commission. So if there's any way we can inject some more history into this, we've covered the birds and the insects. That's why I was trying to, I mean, nuts and berries are specifically mentioned. And the Native people would have used those things, right? So I was trying to bring attention to that in a way.
A basket or a bowl. I'm sorry? Or a basket or a bowl. A basket or a bowl. Okay. That's a suggestion. The only, if we're talking about history, Rick, the only thing that's different on the text from what we looked at was the name, the naming of the pond, how the pond's name has changed from Farm Pond to Johnson Pond to Dudley Pond, which may or may not be of interest, but it is of history. Oh, the Indigenous people are history. Well, that's true. Yeah, so that's, I mean, that's why I was trying to think about the resources the Native people would have used that are still there today. If we could connect those dots, it would, without, without putting artifacts on there. Right. I have no problem with that. I will say, I do not like the green. It's a 2P green. Makes me think of when I get sick. So. I love it. I know. Green is my favorite color. I was just going to say, I bet you mean it should be. I'm almost wearing that same color. Again, it looks to me like we're just wasting a huge amount of space in the upper right corner that we ought to be filling with something other than paint a couple of trees that people may or may not be able to see. I mean, it's a waste of time. Although I gather from what Ann was saying, Carol's professional view is that you don't want to clutter it up too much. It ultimately becomes distracting and you may not read everything. And if I gather is what Carol's point was. That was her goal and the design of it. But we do have more photos like these. But what I was wondering is instead of having the block left across the bottom, maybe she could do something creative and space in between or something. Or overlap it like this or something a little bit. But you have to envision this is on what, a 24 inch sign, a two foot sign. Right. So based on the sketch, half of that sign is essentially going to feel empty. Good point.
And when I talked about the name, I was envisioning a little side panel like that. Not necessarily in the big text that people may or may not. Oh, so the naming of the pond. Yeah. It's a little side panel, not a big thing. We could put it instead of, we could put another text box instead of. Yeah.
Sure. Before it was on this sign to begin with, these have always been envisioned as two topics. One is the natural setting. One is the history of the area. And I bet that Dudley Pond paragraph was, yeah, it's on this one. Okay.
It wouldn't, I don't think it would make sense on that one because this doesn't really talk about the pond at all. Okay. This is more about the woods and the, well, it does mention the pond, sorry. It's that it abides the pond, but not really. Yeah. And I, and I do recall at various times discussing this, that, you know, we wanted it to be about the woods. I don't know if you, but maybe if there was a little corner that she could put the information about the, on the, on the other one. Colorful history sign. Yeah. No, but I agree with you that this should be more woodsy, not on fish.
And, you know, to be honest, there's not a lot to that Dudley Woods. No, there really isn't. There's not much there. And so I don't know quite what else to say about it. Actually, that's, the woods is where the camps were. So I'm just saying the camp, although there were a lot of camps on the pond, there were more camps where the woods is. And there's at least one cellar hole that you can see from the trail that was there at least five years ago when I walked it. See, this is why I think a QR code would be great. A QR code would be great. Then you wouldn't have all that other information. You could, you could list. You could have more pictures and more information just like that. Well, I'll tell you, when we, when I talk to other historical societies, people say you put the QR code on and very, very few people ever use it. I use QR codes. I use QR codes too. That's why I was surprised. But that's what the feedback was. Are they extraordinarily expensive? Is that they're unattractive? They don't have to be big. They could be very small. There's no expense associated with it. You can create one for free, but it's, where does it lead? You have to, you know, obviously develop a landing page, your website. But we could right now, you know, right in, in progress or whatever, you know what I mean? Well, while we work on it. And where else it directs back to our website here, our, our historical commission website. Temporarily. And yes, because we have other interesting things on that website. If you want to add additional information. And then we just have to create a new additional material to go on the website that would fill in around Dudley Fond history. You can add that extra material after you've done the QR code that links to, that's why I'm saying it stays permanently here rather than, I mean, where else would you put it? If we can make another page or add our pictures to our website on the town website, sure. Yeah, that's fine. That's what you would do. Yeah. And it's just an idea.
Because it sounds like the writing. Not right today, but maybe in the next three years. Yes, the other thing about the QR code is it does indicate that there is more information available. Exactly.
I mean, of all sorts, right? Yes. So, I mean, I was suggesting you don't like to defend it.
Well, I love to, I think.
You already got this. Yes. Yeah. And I will double check that I think this one is correct. Yes, I think so, too. Yeah. Thank you.
Any other suggestions? Yeah. No. If not, then we'll move on to Castle Cate. Okay. Castle Cate.
Well, this is my favorite one so far. But I do think, I don't know if this was the final text. I do, I see the text, how it has a caption here. And then I do think it needs to have like brackets around the word letter. What are you talking about? A wealthy young widow. So, Evangeline Mara Simpson left Wayland. Did she leave Wayland or she left? Is the picture to the left of the text? To the left of the copy? It's part of the sentence. She left Wayland. She departed Wayland. Although that sounds like she might have died. So, okay. That was just confusing to me. Because I was looking, oh, that's her picture to the left. My first impression was I like the bluish cast page better than the yellow with the maroon or brown. Because I think the mansion stands out better. I agree. The blue. Yeah. And I think since my feeling is that Castle Gate relates to the entry to the mansion and the estate, that there should be more about the house and the estate rather than so much about her after she leaves. I also think she was born in Wayland. She was born on Dudley Pond. And that ought to be in here. That she's a native Waylander, so to speak. That is a good detail. Okay. And the house itself is, I mean, we just say they built this mansion named the castle, became the mansion inn, and we kind of stopped there with the building. But there was so much more to the grounds. There was a stable. There was a windmill for pumping the water from Dudley Pond and then from Rice Pond. There were servants' quarters. There was a big garden area. There were no lions that Mark Schlund put in the aqueduct, right?
He did a water line to Rice Pond. The first one. The first equivalent to an aqueduct. Not just for himself, but because he was doing it for himself, he gifted it to all the properties along the way. I thought that was a pretty cool thing. I mean, certainly. Or limit that. Probably. But I think a number of these words could be eliminated, Cohnett. If you look at the A to Z copy that I sent you, there's a lot more Wayland history in here about the house and the gates and then what she did after she left Wayland. It's not so much Wayland history. I think it's fascinated by her story. Well, I think so, too. But this is about Castlegate pillars, not about Evangeline Simpson. It's my difference. There's a difference between talking about a person and talking about the artifact and what it was at the time. And that's what we were asked to do was the Castlegate pillars, not Evangeline Simpson. Okay, but I think it would be pretty boring just to talk about the actual stone pillar. So I think it's the story. No, it's the story and the building. I mean, you know, ultimately, it's... Well, yes, we have that here with Michael Simpson. Yes. I think you would have to take him out as well. But he built it for her, really. And I agree with that. And I think that's important. I'm not so sure about her relationship with Cleveland, which never happened in Wayland. I'm not so sure about her being necessarily buried in Italy or that she... You know, it's just... It's not Wayland history. And that's what we were asked to do. Okay. Well, I think that does have... You do have a point with that. But I do think it's very important about him and her. I agree. I absolutely agree. And although I like the map on the darker background, I think it shows up better. And it's easier to read and to see than the green background with the pale white green. It might look too busy with the blue cast mansion in and the brown. But it might not. We'll see what it looks like.
So... You've got Rose. So you want... So you want more about the house itself? Well, I think if you look at the A to Z, they talk about the house. They talk about... Let's see.
The main drive led to a covered entrance. It talks about the H and Y grounds were extensively landscaped. And the public was encouraged to enter the property. He rode along a bridal path adorned by four stone-powered lions, which were later moved. But... Oh, yeah. We could have put a picture of the lion. And... Because it still exists. We don't have a picture of the lion. This is what I'm saying. These pictures are... I think the lion is at the Historical Society. Yeah, it is at the Historical Society. And also... We could take a picture. We have a very nice picture of Brian's. We could ask Brian's for a picture of theirs that could be high-res. But the area that says Hawthorne on it, in the map, he turned that into Evangeline Todd for a long time. That's where she rode her horses. Oh, yeah. Hawthorne Laws. So, let's look at each paragraph. And I need to get a better idea of what can come out. I like the two paragraphs. But I agree... There are four paragraphs in the main copy. And if we're going to add more detail describing the house and the grounds and the bridal path and all that, I think we're going to have to cut some of what's here. Can we just swap it out with the information about roads? It's like, correction on his... Who has the picture of Michael Simpson. And it's the Fringingham Historic Center. Okay. And only one source have I ever found that referred to the house as a capital. And that was in the agency. Nobody else ever referred to it as a castle. Well, I added that because of the very name of this. I know. Castle Gate, like where... We could say that afterward, people... Like, obviously, people in town do refer to it as the castle because of Castle Gate. Well, Kay says she has never heard anybody call it the castle. I did read the mansion in... Right. But why is it called Castle Gate? Because Michael Simpson owned property there and he owned property above it. And he called the development Castle Gate South and Castle Gate North. That's where the name Castle Gate comes from. It's from the development, not from the house. But if he called it that, that means he was thinking his house was like a castle. Do you know that? I don't know. Why would you create Castle Gate? Why would you say that name? Why would you just call it Mansion and Gate? If you've ever been down Lakeview Road, it's called Wayland Manors. Trust me. There are no manors on that house, on that road. But people choose glorious names to attract attention to their developments and sell their houses. That's what I'm saying. That's where the castle gate castle came from, not from the house, from the developer, from the developments on either side. And that's another thing that it talks about here is the road that connects. That was his right of way between the two developments. It's now Lake Shore Drive, which I find interesting that the right of way turned into a street. And it's more history than it is anything else. Not that I think it needs to go on here again, but I'm just saying. That is interesting. Also, her full name is Evangeline Elizabeth Thurston Mars Simpson Whipple. Well, Whipple came later. Yes, indeed. You're telling me we don't want to talk about her after she was talking. That's fine. I'm just telling you. I'm disappointed by that because I think her life story is interesting. And I think just because we have talked about she is a way loaned figure. Well, we had talked here of the QR code that would lead back to your article that you wrote for the commission. And that's what we had initially talked about. OK, so I'm going to repeat my question. What do you think is extraneous information that can come out of these four paragraphs if we're going to add details about the house and grounds and all that?
Couldn't we just lift the header up a little bit higher? I feel like there's more space. It's an awful lot of text. The idea of a sign like this is to keep it. Nobody's going to stand there and read five or six paragraphs. I'm on board with that point of view, that keeping it to a reasonable length is the best way to invite people to read it. OK, well, here's a paragraph I come here. I think 30 men spent most of 1882 completing the house, stable, servant quarters and windmill at a cost of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The windmill pumped the water from Dudley Pond. But Simpson also financed the water mains. They brought the water from Cachichewitz. I shouldn't say Cachichewitz because it's not in Cachichewitz. Cachichewitz from Rice Reservoir coming down West Plain Street to his mansion and enabling households along the route to have access to running water. Now, that's Wyland's history. I think it's cool. It's a lot of text, though. All right. And the hundred and fifty thousand. Yes. Explain what that would be worth today. I feel like I don't know. I guess I guess the end point in terms of text. That's really that is very interesting. But what would you take out to put that line right in?
Well, I guess we're going to take out the whole caption about Evangeline next to her picture, because you're telling me that is not that doesn't belong on the sign. So, I mean, I think maybe that text is where I could talk about. She was born in Wayland because her parents lived right. Simpson bought the property from her parents. Correct. Simpson bought the property where he built the mansion from her parents. From Jane, her mother. From her mother. But so she was born along. She was born there in Dudley Pond, along Dudley Pond. Yeah. If they say it was called Hawthorne, you could see it on the map. And the brown. And the green right up here. That big square says Hawthorne on it. Hawthorne on it. Yeah, I could only see it on the brown because I can't read the text. Yeah, the brown. That's why I like the brown better. It's easier to read. But I think on a big sign, I could read the green. I just, I needed to. But no, I agree. On a bigger sign, it'd be more legible. So. And congratulations. I don't have any age. You're quiet. It's a point. It's silly. Well, I was just about to say, this whole last paragraph obviously has to stay because that's about pillars. That's the pillars. That's where the sign is. Absolutely. It has to be explained. And I've, and I've worked to say that information as succinctly as I can.
Do we need to put in the 2018 that we actually. Oh, yes. I appreciate that. Yeah. I think. Okay. They're not accurate either. And I mean, they're, they're wider than, than the entry initially. And that was important to me because I, I like to know like an old country where you can see, you know, originally it would have been a narrow entryway because probably was, it was just a small width. Vehicles or a horse even. Well, I wonder about moving that last paragraph up to where you're actually talking about the stone pillars once marked the back entrance. And then you talk about farmers delivering to these stone gates and so forth. It seems that those two paragraphs connect better.
So I'm, I'm, what I'm hearing you say is that you don't really want information about the mansion in, because this is more about the Simpson estate. Sorry. That, that you don't, you think it should be more about the Simpson estate and the building of the house, not about the mansion in, the piece about the mansion in should come out. No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm sorry that I couldn't say that. No, that's not what I'm saying. I would even have said more about the mansion in, and the fact that it became, you know, like people from Boston would come out to it. Well, she does. She says that it was eventually the mansion in an elegant restaurant with lavish ballroom for spring floors, which they built, not Simpson. And in 56, the mansion in Brindown. But I would take out the sentence, the imposing Victorian houses made of brick, wood, and stones sat on the knoll. Well, maybe leaving the knoll overlooking, only because most houses are built of one of those three. But I would put in a sentence about, just a sentence, about 30 men spent most of 1882 completing the house at a cost of $150,000. And didn't I read in here someplace about the water? You did. But we can send recommendations later, but I don't think that's a lot of text. Because we have to take out an equal number. Well, right. That's what I'm saying. I'm taking out a sentence, and I'm putting that sentence. Which one are you taking out? The Victorian house made of brick, wood, and stone sat on the knoll overlooking the lawn. Isn't that... Don't we want to describe the house? That's... But aren't most houses made of brick, or wood, or stone? I think it's okay. I think the combination of the three, I think, is somewhat unique. I mean, brick, wood, and stone. I mean, you can have a wood house, you can have a brick house, you might have a stone house. But combining all three elements, I think, is pretty unique. You can't tell from the picture, so it's nice to know, oh, what materials were used in the construction. Because I watch too much HTTP, because I see so many houses made of all three. Well, I do like the sentence, though, about how long it took to complete it, and at what cost. And if you don't want to put in completing stable servant corners and windmills, that saves a few words. So you have 30 men spending most of 1882 completing the property at a cost of $150,000. So I don't think it's good to say money, unless you say how much it's, like, that's the problem. It's always going to change in value as time goes forward. But in 1882, $150,000 is a lot of money. I know, but I don't know if people reading that are going to realize how much money that is.
We disagree. What seems to me that you three ought to be in a subcommittee and work on this separately and then come back and begin is putting in a lot of time. And I appreciate all the efforts. Well, I'm just looking back at, like, we've had many drafts of this. And we've had this, parts of this conversation we've had before. I, so I'm, I'm not sure how to get it over the finish line. But we do, I do feel like we want to move efficiently and get this done because it literally will hold up the rail trail sign project if we're not ready when spring comes and they're ready to install the signs. So I think we want to move, you know, fairly quickly from here going forward to finalize this. I'm happy to take another stab at the language on here. I'm not sure what the right process is for us to make progress before our next meeting. I don't want to wait for another month. So I'm not really sure what the rules allow.
You're, you're, you're retired from the, I'm still on the commission. I'm trying to wrap this up. You know, and to babysit for my grandson at three o'clock every Wednesday, which now is, I'm sorry, but it's, you know, they're counting on me. So that's the, you're bringing this out so you won't leave it. Yes. I would like to add another point though, that I found that the pillars are the last remaining remnant of the mansion. And I think that I would like to see that listed here. So people know, this is the last evidence we have of this huge, huge mansion in, or, you know, what became the mansion in place, you know, it's because the, the lions are scattered. That's right. That's right. But there are also the communities to know, we know the whereabouts of two of them. We, we, we think we know the, maybe since anyway, grand press, you could say the last remnants of, or even at the front, these stone pillars, the last remnants, or whatever. Yeah. Once marked the back entrance to the mansion. I, let me ask a suggestion. I, I don't know what the open meeting law violation would be, but I have no problem delegating this to Ann and the two of you to work out the final language. I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't know whether it can be a part of it. It's okay. I loved the way it was until other points were brought up. I was like, oh, well, that is a good point.
But yeah, I don't know how two people work on it and communicate. I don't think that violates any open meeting law. I don't think it does. And I'm perfectly okay submitting a motion saying the two of you can agree on the final language and get it submitted. I think it's subcommittee of less than three can meet when they want and make decisions. But the final vote has to be the whole, and we're trying to get it done before. We can vote now to approve the language that you guys agree on. But I'm perfectly okay with that. No, I'm not. Okay. Okay. No, I think that's jumping the gun a bit, so to speak. I think we'll all feel more comfortable if we actually see something that we're voting on. But it doesn't. It's important. It doesn't prohibit us from having a quick meeting before next month. We don't have to wait a whole month. We can meet in two weeks or a week. And just on this topic alone, nothing else. And you can do a Zoom meeting. You don't have to come here if you don't want to. You can do that. Well, that's what I think would be most efficient. That's the subcommittee now. No, no. She's saying everybody come together. For the final vote, we all have to agree. Yes, we all have to be here. So what I'm saying is a Zoom meeting just on this topic to take a jump just on this so that we don't hold anybody else up. Yeah, that's a good idea. And we could try and meet in a week or two, whatever it's convenient for your schedule. And we can work intensely on this to get it completed because I think we're closer than we think we are on it. And that would be the end of it. We don't have to debate it any further here. We don't have to, you know, unless somebody else wants to share more ideas that they think should or should not be on here, you're in silence. What did you ask? I said, if you want to share anything else that should or should not be on the sign, now, you know, we'll take those emails. Well, I don't think that arrowhead should be on here. Okay. I think we should. But we're talking just about this sign. Yeah. I know, but I'm back to here. Yeah, I've got that in my notes. She already has that written in. I hear you. So do you want to give them a day to email us any other ideas they have or should we just cut it off here? I think we're all set. I think I need to hear everything you've got to say right now. And then I will take a crack at another draft. Can I send it to the two of you? Sure. And then you can send me your feedback and then we can finalize it to bring to the larger group. Is that permissible? I think that's a solid solution for at least a matter of time. We have a plan. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. I miss it anyway. Okay. I'm going to do it. Moving on. The REV 250th. Two things under that. We have Frances Perkins and the Cemetery Revolution Tour.
So, Kay, you have April 10th. Which is, I believe, 110th birthday of Frances Perkins. Is when a person portraying her will be out here. At the moment, we're trying to decide between the COA venue, which we have already booked a room for. Or we've just been offered a room at the First Parish House, free of charge, to have the program there. So, I have to discuss it with the person who's doing the presentation, which you might prefer. You said the 10th, correct? The 10th is definite, though. At what time? 7 o'clock. 7 o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Not a.m. And it's just like going to a play. It's a one-woman, one-act play. That would be so great. I mean, that, yeah. Cool. So, unfortunately, the school people that we've contacted have not responded. They're posting us initially. They said yes. They were excited about it. They wanted it. And now they've not responded to me or to Scarlett. And Scarlett is a friend of theirs. So, I don't know what's going on over there. I offered to get a grant from the Coastal Council, and they told me, no, we have our own funds. Still, no response. So, I don't know. It's so bizarre. So, it's sort of dropped, by the wayside, from them. The second thing is. Can I mention? What do we need to do for that day? Do we need posting? Do we need parking? Do we need whatever? I think I sent Anne. Anne, we're lucky enough to have her as our PR person. And I sent you the photographs and the information on her. And I never know. I tend to send it to your personal email just because it's not. I need to find out which one you want me to send it to. Well, as long as I'm still on the commission, I'd say use the town one. Okay. Because hearing you say that you sent me that, I'm like, really? Yeah, yesterday morning at the 2.50th meeting, I sent it to you. Okay. So, basically, it would be nice if the commission, as many of the commissioners could show up at the program, since we're sponsoring the program. I don't know that at either place we need anybody to pressure people to the chairs or anything like that. I don't know if it's not. She has a very simplistic presentation. She just needs a podium or a table.
And both places have offered both. So, no podium at the COA table they could offer, but that would be there.
Anything else you can look up to do? No. However, the cemetery tour. We are asking re-enactors to re-enact no more than eight Revolutionary War soldiers. And I'm sorry, I should be talking for a jumbo. No more than eight Revolutionary War soldiers will have re-enactors. Some of the information might be delivered by a mother or a wife or a sister or a daughter-in-law. So, it's not all men that are talking. Some of them will have two people at the grave. I have a father-in-law and a daughter-in-law talking. Because the father-in-law was in the Revolutionary War, but the woman's husband was in the Revolutionary War. So, they will be two at a grave. But for staffing, that's the real thing. This is going to be April 12th. April 12th, that's the same weekend as Francis Perkins. And April 12th, we're going to have...
We need somebody to sit at the table because they're registering online through the town. We know how many people are going. We need people to point out parking spots because we know there's no parking lot at the North Cemetery. We need a guide and a, quote-unquote, pusher, a guide to lead them from one cemetery site to the next grave site, and a pusher to keep people together up close. We don't want somebody wandering off and saying, oh, come over here and look at this beautiful stone, you know? And then all of a sudden, they're five minutes behind everybody else. One of the big questions that I would like some feedback on is we're asking these reenactors to find outfits and to memorize a five- to eight-minute speech. Do we want to do just one tour, or do we want to do maybe three tours with maybe a half an hour to an hour start-up times different? I read Dennis Picard. I reached out to him. He's done hundreds of cemetery tours and asked him what I should be considering. And one of the things is we have to say up front that it's uneven ground. People need to wear walking shoes so that if they decide to come, it's their decisions and not the town's in case somebody trips or falls or has an accident. We want to keep the grave site far enough apart that if we do more than one group, they are not talking over each other. And he said no more maximum 10 people to a group because any more than that, people are not going to be able to hear the speaker. And I have been on cemetery tours where if you are on the back of the tour, you don't hear the speaker. So keep the group small, which is why I'm asking you to consider whether you want to do more than one group. Because hopefully we would have more than 10 people that would want to go on the cemetery walk. Is there a rain date? There is not at this point. We might, if it gets closer, we could try rescheduling it at a different time. But more afraid of the snow than the rain. Yeah. I'm not kidding. Are you going to include the indigenous graves? What? Are you going to include the indigenous graves? Not at this point. They're all revolutionary soldiers for the Rev. 250 at this point. If it goes well and we want to, we can do another cemetery walk of other people in fall, which is a very popular time to do cemetery walks. But, again, it involves a commitment from the commissioners to be present. And if you cannot be present, to find someone to take your place to help with the parking, with the registration table, and for the guides and pushers to keep everything moving in a timely fashion. Well, I'm happy to help, and I think, theoretically, there should be more than if they're memorizing these lines and you're paying them. We're not paying them. Oh, they're not. As far as I know, we're not. Oh, okay. Then we should have multiple times available. But it's then also harder to find volunteers because you need them then all day versus, you know. Well, they could be to the one to two, and they go around so they hear the speakers. Then you could have another pair do two to three and another pair do four. I mean, it isn't the same people because if we're, even if we make it 45 minutes apart, that means that first group is probably still going, and we need somebody to start the second group. I think it's a good idea. And I'm happy to, right now, my calendar was clear, so I put it down. I'm going to be out of state from the 8th to the 13th, but I can maybe ask Alyssa, see if she's interested. I can do that. I can help. Thank you. Thank you. Very nice. I think I'm available on the 12th. I have a tentative. I have a plan with my family. It's either going to happen on the 11th or 12th, and I don't know yet, but hopefully the 11th.
Okay.
I think I'll be available to help on Sunday afternoon. And, you know, even though you are all available, if you have a friend that you want to work with as a group and, you know, guide and push her, just let me know who's going to be there and how to contact them and bring a friend. Right. I appreciate that, and I will get back to you as soon as possible. We had two other people working on this, and they both renapped. So it's up to us to fill up the gap.
Anything else? Any questions about the tour?
Okay. And if these people are supposed to come, the reenactors are supposed to come from Vogue Theater. But if we run short, is anybody willing to take a script? Remember, it's only for five minutes. Is there a costume? Make your own. Make your own if you want a costume. I don't know if it's a spooker. You know, would Lisa be willing to do it? Because she's so fabulous. Have you been on a tour with her? No. I used to do the tours, the third grade. And she's just phenomenal. Well, what I was going to say is we also talked to Sudbury, which has done a number of tours. And she said her people just went in the closet and made up something that inspired you to think of that time period. It wasn't necessarily exact for that time period. So if you were a soldier, maybe you had on a white shirt with a vest that hung open and, you know, dark pants and your big clothed copper shoes that you walked around in or something like that. So it gave you the impression that he was a soldier, a Minuteman at that particular time. That's what it would be.
Well, thank you all for stepping up. I appreciate it. And I'm going to excuse myself. Can you take it from here? Thank you so much. Great.
Okay. Next is a joint program with the HRDEIC Group, Human Relations and Diversity. Human Rights. This is Human Rights, Diversity, Inclusion, Inclusion Committee.
Well, they reached out to us and they asked us if we could do something with Native Americans. Okay, we already discussed this once. Have they reached out again? No. What we have decided on was a speaker from Sudbury who talks about the Native Americans in Sudbury, which seemed pretty close to home since we were Sudbury. This is what they wanted to work on or sponsor? This is what they wanted to sponsor, but we have to get approval first. I'm moving closer to you because she was blocking the sunlight in my eyes. Right. So we finally have that person's name. Okay. And we have contact information. Before we contacted her, we wanted to be sure that we had the board's approval because it may cost money from our budget on it. And so they want to sponsor. They have no budget whatsoever. So if there's a payment, it would be basically us, I think. So what are they really doing then? I mean, they would be sponsoring it and doing publicity on it. And they would hopefully find a venue for it. This is what I'm going to tell them. Because I found the person and I've heard the person speak.
She is an actress, but I think she's a new actress. She's not polished. Let's put it that way. But she did research and she is a Native American. So it seemed to me kind of appropriate. From a local nation? Yes. I meant to print that out and I forgot. I mean, I started looking for it and then also other things came up and I got distracted. I'm sorry. But she was part of the Sudbury Library who did a deep dive onto Cato. And she cannot find a Cato anywhere in any record. And so she talks about that. She talks about other Native Americans that were here. I mean, when you say she cannot find, in what way? Well, she, through her contacts in the Native American and Indigenous people community, they cannot find any oral records or any other kind of records that talk about him. Well, that's probably because it was, it was the Westerners who called him Cato. Probably. So he had a Native name. But this is her deep dive as an Indigenous person trying to research Indigenous people in particularly Sudbury, which is also this side of the river. And it just seemed to be appropriate that while we're recognizing the 250th, what came before this and how did we get here? And whether you choose to look at it as we did it deliberately and precisely according to our laws or whether, you know, they didn't understand what we were doing. I've heard talk to both sides of the fence and I'm just sitting right in the middle. I'm not taking one side or the other, but this would be a person that they would be interested. Now, do we know what the budget is? I do not. Because we had talked about also needing boxes. Right. So I do need that. I've talked to Kelsey. I needed to know the budget too to see how much I approved today and amount I can go up to. And so what is in our funds right now? I don't know. That's, but I... You say you have to talk to her. Well, I wanted... No, I have talked to Kelsey about making the order and she said, just get it into me. But before I made the order, I had to know how much I could order in terms of financial figures. Right. So my question is, have you asked anybody what the funds are? I wouldn't know who to ask. You would go to finance and ask them. No, I didn't. And ask him what it is. I thought I had just permission of you and I figured somebody knew.
No, you don't need our permission. The committee? I thought I did. Before I made the order. To make the order, but not to find out how much... Oh, no. I just assumed somebody... It's something new. So anyway, I don't think we spent that much money. I think the last time we spent money was maybe for October Festival would be the last time we spent any money. So there should be... Well, we should have also the money that we collected at the Deborah Sampson. I mean, it wasn't specifically designated that committee. We just said, this is an idea we have about a historical plaque at the Cotituate Ball Field and people gave money. So, I mean, that's supposed to be in our fund. We should work and see if it really went into our fund. It hasn't gone into the fund because Brian hasn't been... When I was available, Brian wasn't available. So it's sitting in my refrigerator.
It's just sitting there and getting cold. Cold cash. But yes, because I wanted to be sure that it went into a line for us that doesn't end in June because they took all the money back in June that we don't spend. And this is not that kind of money. So I have to set up line items. Keep it on ice. So anyway, I think that there is enough money there for a speaker and the boxes. I mean, do we have a rough idea of how much you charge us? No, because we didn't reach out to her until we knew that we were interested in asking her because it's kind of rude to say, oh, yeah, okay, no, thanks. We're not interested in you kind of thing. Sure. So first, I need to know whether or not you want to pursue this. And if push comes to shove, before we touch the donated money, I could go to the 250th and ask them if they'll help pay for it. Since the whole idea of the 250 is not just the year that they sign, but everything before and after. Okay. Are you sure that this woman is available? No. First, I have to find out if we want her. Then we will find out if she's available. Well, I gave up on the person I was pursuing because I kept getting dates from the library that were good for her to come. And she just didn't choose any of them. She was too busy. Yes, I remember that. Now that we know that the First Parish is interested in giving free meeting space, we can always go and ask them. If it's a 250th, we can go to the COA and ask them and not be charged for, because it's a town function. And it's two boards doing it, not just one. And so there's possibility of where to meet the dates might be a little bit more open because we have choices now between the two locations. And it's a matter of deciding whether or not we want to pursue it, A, and then B, going ahead and trying to set it up. So what's our interest in pursuing? Do we want to pursue? I mean, we've been invited to do a joint project with the group, the HRDEIC. And this, instead of us running a program, we can create this program that someone else could give. It's a good topic, more like a program. But I think it's a good idea. I agree. It sounds like a good idea.
Everybody want to make them know? How about a motion? Someone make a motion? Someone move that we pursue this Native American speaker for the joint project with HRDEIC. So moved. Brad moves it. Is there a second?
Okay. Tanya and Amanda, and any other discussion? Okay. Do we have a vote? The crowd should be by hand. Yes. Yes, yes. It's unanimous by all members. Now that we've agreed, we're waiting for the HRDEIC to also approve at their meeting. So then the two of us can work together. Okay. That sounds good. So what are they proposing? The same thing, but they have to also agree to go ahead with the project, just like we just did on our motion. In other words, they're bringing the motion to their group, just as I did for this group. For the same Native American? Yes. Okay. Brad, House Black's report? Nothing. Nothing. Okay. Cemetery project report. Cemetery project. I've met with Kelsey in terms of rebidding the project. She's prepared to, and the idea is we're going to take the original bid documents and use those as the template. And Kelsey is prepared to move on it quite quickly to do it. I've also been communicating with Josh and Rachel from Epic, and what I've asked them to do is to take the original survey that they did and to mark up that survey to show the various stones that were completed so that new bidders will have a precise scope of work. Josh said he's willing to do that. I think that's by eight or ten days ago, he said he would do that. He's going to start working on it immediately. I'll follow up with him, and as soon as he's done, I would get that proposal to Kelsey. Kelsey said she'd put together the bid package. I'll review it, and, Cherian, you can look at it as well. And then once that's prepared, it'd be sent out for bid. The big question, of course, is what's the price going to be when it comes in? We just don't know. But I think it'll be more than we have left. We won't know until we get to bids.
Okay. Sounds good. Any questions for Brad? Anything else on that? Okay. Next, archaeology lab report. Not much has been going on because we've had to cancel, like, how many days? Four, five days lately. The last two Wednesdays. And so we haven't been in there.
So there's nothing really to report on that. Except you have a list of what you want box-wise ready to go. Yeah, I'm in communication with her. I guess I'll go to the finance on my way out. Okay. But I think maybe if we could, can we create a vote ahead of time? So I can just put in the order that you were within budget? Wasn't it already approved? But I don't think we approved a budget number, did we? No, we did not on the number of boxes. You mean on the price? Or even on the price. We didn't talk price. Last time we talked, what size boxes, whether you wanted one big one that could go into it or whether you wanted individual smalls.
So is there, should we create a motion? Well, how much, let me ask you this. How much did it add up to? I haven't actually looked at how much it would add up to. I got the site from her. It was a different, she ordered them from a different site than I had thought she did. So I thought we used Gaylord. When I looked at the boxes, they say Gaylord. But she said that it's a different site in her communication to me. So you don't even have an outline of what, how much? It adds up to using Gaylord. So we have any pricing to go by. I mean, I can back into it. It will be very easy to do. If I knew I had $300, then, you know, I can back into it and figure it out. I didn't think that would cover it, but I don't know for sure. So we can say, we can put a motion now to up to $300 if you think that's a cover it. Unless the prices went great on her website, unless the prices are really different. I don't really understand. I need to look at her website because it says Gaylord right on our boxes. Who is it? Kelsey. Kelsey. I would have to look it up. Well, let's choose up to a certain maximum amount. That way you don't have to wait until next month or in a meeting in two weeks to make a decision. Is that okay? Yeah. I mean, I can order some now and order more later if it's not enough, if we still have money in the budget. So I make a motion that we allow up to $300 to purchase archival storage units for the archaeology lab. And bags. Right. They will be storage units. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Brad. Any further discussion or questions? Okay. Then we will vote. Let's vote by voice. Tonya. Yes. Okay. Yes. Amanda. Rick. Yes. Brad. Yes. He. Yes. Who's me. Who's me. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Rick. Railroad and Rail Trail Signage. And I wonder if Marie is still with us.
Marie Eisenberg. Yes. Marie. There you are. Whoops.
I'm sorry. This has been a long meeting so far. So welcome. Marie contacted me yesterday about the idea of the culture. Marie's a member of the cultural council about the idea of a bench next to the sign along the rail trail at the depot. Is that correct? Correct, Marie? Can you hear me? We can't. We can't hear you. I think you're on mute. Unmute.
Now I can hear you. Not loud enough. Not loud enough. I can't hear you. Oh, wait a minute. She's going to try turning up the.
Is it up in the upper corner? Is there a sound on there? Sarah, but I don't want to make it.
Try again. Oh, just there. Look at the thing. See? Oh, no. I'm going to. Turn it up. Now try talking, Marie. Can you hear me now? Yes. Good. Okay. I don't hear you as well, but my speakers. Okay. I had to unplug my speaker. Okay. Stop in the hallway.
We're just turning you down a bit because of the door to the hallway. Okay.
Super. Try that. Can you hear us now, Marie? Yes. Okay. Perfect. Marie contacted me yesterday by email about the idea of the cultural council to install a bench next to the sign at the depot. I called Marie this morning and sent an email. I copied Bonnie Gossels, who is the coordinator for the rail trail signs. And so, as I explained in my email, the signs that are to be installed along the rail trail from the depot west, my understanding is that they will not be installed until after the, that part of the rail trail, which is currently stone dust, will be paved by PCR and mass DOT. And my understanding is that that's not supposed to be done until next year at the earliest. The other signs along the rail trail will be installed as soon as they're fabricated, as soon as the foundations are installed. And the town has a, my understanding, a contract with a company to install the foundations and to arrange for the fabrication of the signs. So, some of the signs will include benches and not all of the signs, but the foundations for the benches will be installed at the same time as the foundations for the signs. So, I don't know when that work can take place, but the best person to contact on that is Bonnie Gossel, who is working with our commission, with the historical society, with the town town public buildings director, and Kelsey, the assistant town manager, to arrange for the work that can be done this year.
Okay. All right. So, I, I'm sure this has to be some flexibility here. If I speak to Bonnie, I can get specifics on what's still open or needed. I'm going to go take a look at the south of Old Sudbury Road, excuse me, west of Old Sudbury Road, and see what's there. But I'm more than happy to talk to Bonnie. I need to find out whether the planning process is done, and I want to make sure to be clear to bring to the council whatever planning is already in the works so that we meet whatever plans that you have. So, I think I can take it from here unless you have something else to suggest, and I'll make sure that whatever we have to offer matches what they need at this point. Okay. Okay. Well, I don't believe the sign that's proposed to be installed next to the depot will include a bench. There is a bench, a wooden bench adjacent to the parking lot entrance to the depot, which was being repaired last fall by the town. I don't know if those repairs have been completed and the bench has been reinstalled yet. But there's also a stone slab bench inside the traffic island at the entrance to the depot, which hasn't got much to mention. So, Bonnie would know whether a bench is proposed as part of a sign at the depot. So, I don't believe it is, but she has the specifications for the other benches to be installed at the signs along the rail trail, but some of them will have benches also. She has those specifications. Yes, I definitely like the idea of definitely moving what you've already done along, brother. I wasn't clear that what the sourcing from our end would be. So, I'm very happy to hear that you have a plan and a specific design in mind. So, I'll be happy to get that information and relay it back to the council. Great. Because that design is based on DOT standards, isn't it, Rick? DCR. DCR standards. Benches are designed by DCR. Very good. Yes. Rick, have you told her about the 2005 thing on our website, the report, so that she can see what the interpretive site would be like? So, if you go to our historical permissions website on the town website, look under a railroad interpretive site, you will see several reports that you can download about the history of the railroad site, the depot, the landscape design report that our commission had prepared in 2005 for a railroad interpretive site. It was a conceptual report at that time. We have completed many elements of that since 2005 using a combination of volunteers and town community preservation act, historic preservation fund. So, many of those elements in that report have been completed. Other things have not been completed yet. So, I invite you to take a look at those reports. Very good. I'll do that. Yeah. Maria, I was going to say, you may find, instead of a bench, you may find some things in that interpretive site that you might want to participate with as well. Yes, I will propose that to the, at our next meeting. I'll have all that to present at the next meeting. At our next meeting. Oh, Avi had been participating in some of the early meetings that we had on the design of the rail trails, but she has not been involved more recently. We have a design for the signs, pen signs, and we are, as soon as the Castlegate and Dudley Wood signs are finalized, then those will go into production. And we hope that some of those signs will be installed this year, but not the signs west of Old Sudbury Road at the depot. Yes. Okay. And some of the benches will be installed at other points east of the depot. Okay. So, your commission council might want to participate in funding some of those. If Bonnie, please, that's a good idea. Okay. I will definitely propose that. And I'll have, as you say, I'll look at your reports and we'll look at the checklist and see what works and see what contribution. But we'll definitely check back with you and let, well, Bonnie will know and then we can know what kind of communication we should do. So, you'll be aware of where we are with this. Very good. Okay, Marie. All right. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sorry to make you sit through such a long meeting before we reach this point. No problem. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome to continue to hold on. Yeah, I will. I'll do it myself, though. Okay. We have a design of the rail trail signs that I'm describing as version eight that were sent out before our last meeting. And I haven't heard any further comments from anyone about these. I have no further comments. I haven't heard from Bonnie. So, I think, as far as I know, the version eight of the rail trail signs are pretty much ready. Well, Tom Fay has already sent them to DCR. Okay. Do we know if DCR has responded yet? That I do not know. Okay. I haven't heard any either. But, um, one of the signs, uh, the one at the freight house, uh, during the design process, if anyone remembers the discussion of the, uh, car track barcodes. Yes. That were, um, headed up by Frank Stikes. And I just saw on the Wayland Historical Commission, uh, Carol news that his wife Carol was an aviator, very interesting person. Yes. I looked for a picture of Frank there, but I didn't find it. No. No. But anyway. This is women's month. Not men's month. We went back and forth over the design of the, uh, actual, uh, plaque that was affixed to, um, railroad cars in the 1970s. Within the past couple of weeks. I have found an actual UCI channel. Wow. This is a long story, but a longtime friend of mine who passed away 10 years ago was part of the project that marketed these. These. Oh, interesting. To the railroad. That passed through. I agree. She said no. Did you see it? For the audience. So this was a huge audience. To the side of railroad cars. And this was an early type of barcode. Uh, and there were readers alongside the railroad tracks. That would scan these panels to determine the car number, the car owner. And, um, so this was used throughout the 1970s to identify railroad cars nationwide. And in Canada and other places. Like town. The problem was that after, in what were time. Like a barcode. The mud, the dirt, uh, reduced the reflectivity on sign. And the rate of reading these barcodes declined to the point that the railroads gave up on them. Today, railroads use a different type of technology, which is radio frequency identification, RFID tags. Which is similar. Oh, thank you. You see. Oh, it's up there on the camera. What's, what's used, uh, for automatic tolling on railroads. That uses a chip and a reader at high speed. And also the same technology that's used to, uh, identify your pet. If you choose to embed a chip in your pet. So that it can be identified. So this was. Amazing. This lasted for maybe 10 years. And, um, ultimately was not successful. So this is part of the history. It's my railroad history. In my history. Frank designed that. He was part of the team that designed that. So I'll be interested in, uh, Frank's. And also, uh. He helped build the airplane he built. Right? The two of them built the airplane. I, I also obtained some technical manuals. So if anybody wants to know anything about car track. Automatic car identification. I have a whole carton of stuff. It came out of the house of a long time friend of mine. Who I did not know at the time. Was involved with this project. But when his sons started to clean out this house in Concord, Massachusetts. He uncovered these things. Yeah. Cool. So, um. Other than the possibility of another annual brush clearing. Okay. I have nothing else to talk about. About the railroad and rail trail. So you need to get that, um, brush clearing to Scarlett. So she can get it in the newsletter. Okay. Because it's the first weekend in May. So she needs to get it into the next newsletter that will go out in April. Yeah. So people are aware. Yeah. No, I realized that there's a conflict with the house tour on Sunday. Yes. But. We started the brush clearing just on Saturday. And then rain days and other events. So we made it a two day weekend event. And if people want to do the house tour on Sunday, they can come on Saturday. Sure. You want to go, um, the town manager's newsletter. Yes, absolutely. Okay. So that's Jalen. You're going to send it to Jalen. Yes. And the suggestion was made last month. And the suggestion was made last month that we write up something for the way on the post. Right. Yes. Great. And then, and, and, and offered to do the poster, right? Uh, she did at the last meeting. Yes. So maybe you might ask her to write something up for the poster for Jalen to just insert. Okay. Last thing is matters not reasonably anticipated by me. So, uh, Brad brought in his report on, uh, the one Oh five plane road evaluation. Uh, so we put that in the file. A lot. I brought the two copies. Uh, Kay was the only one who responded to the two letters that I wrote about the brochure that town put out and we saw last month. Um, so those are ready to be filed. Um, so the letter was sent. Yes. I sent a letter to the members of select board and one to Brian McCall. Did you get a response? No, I did not. I really wasn't expecting one. Did you say Brian McCall? I did. So I got the wrong name. Michael. Michael. No wonder he didn't get it. No wonder he didn't get it. Oh, I don't know where that one went. Gee. You know what? I know a Brian McCall. I guess I'll send that one again. Anyway, I put it in their mailbox. So I don't know what they did with it. Okay. I'll have to redo that. Sorry about that. Oh, and, um, then the other thing is we had a little homework assignment from the last meeting to, um, start a list of, uh, spots of historical interests that we thought if we did a historical brochure of our own, that we would want to include. And I went last year when I was over in Natick, I'll pass this down quickly. You can see their idea of what they do with Natick history. And I also brought the one from Audubon because it's colorful and their format for, um, brochures. So I started a list. Did anybody come up with anything that we could put in a history brochure? I mean, only the obvious things. Yeah. Oh, right. I, I think. Yeah. Go ahead. Um, other than the obvious, there's, there's Herd Farm. I, I feel like that's a nice spot with the apple trees and thought of that one. And what are the obvious things? Well, the two cemeteries and all the historic homes and the historic section of town. Right. First parish church. Yeah. And, and Natick has a map of the historic Natick center from way back when. So. Cochituate, bird's eye view, and a bird's eye view of the Weyland town center. Um, historic center. Yeah. The noise, Paris house, or shield factories. And that was big. You're thinking of industry in town. You would need something to point to, I think, just, but this is a walking. This is a, a tour though, a self-setting tour kind of, right? With things you're proud of about the town or something, or is it just things you're proud of that, that you're excited about that it happened? What, which is it? I don't know. It would be, if we did something, it'd be whatever we wanted to make it to be. Uh, we were just disappointed that history. Oh, no. Yeah. And the one. The town did. So we were starting to think of things that. Secure. Pinpoint. And, and entice people to come here because of our food. So, I mean, that was the direction I was. Okay. So all the bridges. Our arch bridges. Um, I mean, I'd even go with Sherman's Bridge. Did you know there was a whales grid? Whales? No. Yes, whales. I did not know. There was a tiny little one at the top of Pell Pond. Oh. It got replaced with a, for modern grid. It was very small. We do have a portrait. Do you think? A painting of it. Not a portrait. Painting of it. At the museum. So we had another arch bridge. It was a single arch. I believe. Marie, I have a question for you. If. Yes. We were talking about doing a brochure of historic sites in Wayland. Is that something that could be considered as a cultural council grant? If we would apply for that? Yes. Perfect. It would be fiscal. Let me try again. Fiscal year 26 is closed since January. Right. But you certainly could look for it for next year. Right. Well, I just was wondering because we have a very small budget. And so. We do too. But yes. But certainly, please do. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you for saying to answer my question. Okay. No problem. I think we need a bigger budget. So. Good luck to you. Okay. So we've got a start of a list. By the noise Paris house, which is our oldest house in town. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Noise Paris house. Yes. Because it's the oldest house in town. And the local house is the oldest in Cuchichuit. And the local. Okay. Yeah. I love that local one. I, I, I, it's not that I don't love the noise Paris. It's just, you can't see it from the road. So. We get excited. And the Depot, which is kind of a, a logo for, for sure. For sure. For sure. Um, you know, any number of things, our taverns. The taverns. The taverns. The taverns that are. Oh yeah. The Reeves Tavern. Yeah. The Reeves, there's, there's a whole bunch. At one point we had 12 taverns in town. That's way back in the day. So anyway, so we'll start a list. And if you think of some others, you know, we can keep adding. And if we think to do something with this idea. We'll. I think this is very cool. I think that's cool too. Their, their brochure. I like, and I like the. It's horrible. Just be different. What was the other brochure that you mentioned? Oh, this is Audubon. Okay. Which is, is a very different format. It's, um, what. Audubon is. And then how you are part of that. And there's three sections of it. It's the way they list it, but it's colorful. And. And it's just a, another approach to brochures. That. It's. It's definitely lower costs in terms of. Yes. Yes. So. Okay. Anything else under matters, not reasonably anticipated. Yes. I have one. Okay. When. Talked to Mike. Fair. It facilities. And he has taken over the. Historical sign. At stonebridge. And he has asked me to work with him on that. So I will be working with him on that. At the moment. The format is a. Like a timeline. Because so many things happen over the years there. And it's just simpler to. You know. When it was built. When Knox went over. It went to Rosa. So on and so forth. Again, like Anne said, keeping it brief, but yet. Giving out information where possible. So. That's the format at the moment. If the difficult thing will be deciding which. Photographs to put around. And he. Will be contacting Carol holds. As a possible designer. For the project as well. So it'll be all cohesive of the. Same kind of. Style. So that will that be funded by facilities. And what is our involvement. It is funded by them. The involvement is my participation in the design of the. Sign. Right. And they came to us. Several meetings ago. When we met down in the old COA room. And. Brought the thoughts and. And so forth. And kind of some tentative. Stuff of their layout of what they thought they might include. But they kind of. Wanted our. Input. At that time. And so we did give that. And I was able to. Give them. Some historical photographs. And. Current ones. Of the. Rebuilding of the bridge. So they could start from. At least. The 1955 hurricane. Which caused. The. Framingham. To take out the banking. So that we no longer connected. Are there any maps. With Sherman's bridge written on it. I'm sure. I'm sure there are maps. Whether it's written on it or not. I don't know. But. We just started. I mean. He just asked him two days ago. That's all I have. I went in and. To ask him if there was an update on it. And that's when he asked me to participate. So. Okay. Well. If nothing else. I. Entertain. And motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All those in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Yes. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.