October 29, 2025 – Planning Board – Video & Transcript

October 29, 2025 - Planning Board

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It is October 29th, 2025, this is the meeting of the Wayland Planning Board. Our agenda this evening is review and approve our draft checks at 9-10-25, then PB-25-83, which is 3745 Wolfman Road, the Carroll School of the Bank Plan of the Chamber of Commerce, 830-2303, 8 Andrew Avenue, Council on Imaging Community Center, Amendment to 8-9-23, Phase 1 Site Plan Decision, but to reflect an updated and instant plan. And then we're going to discuss our plans for a public forum on accessory dwelling units, which is scheduled for November the 12th at 7 p.m. Excuse me, Madam Chair, first, is there a sound system? Is it? Yes. For the, the sound system is for the Zoom. Can you not hear us? Can you or can you not hear us? It's hard. We can hear you now. You can't? You can't. Well, I will try to raise your hand just a bit like this. If you can go down, I'll try and speak as loudly as I can. Can you all hear me now? Yes. Thank you. We just got to talk loud. That's all. That is the problem with different rooms. They all have different, of course. And then it's, we have updates from the town planner. If there are any, then more comments and concerns. And I'm not aware of any matters that weren't reasonably anticipated 48 hours in advance of the meeting. And then at the end, we'll adjourn. So, uh, can we tell Robbie if any of our members are online? No, I don't see any other members. We don't see Larry Kieran or I would like to do that on the panelist. So, okay, okay, um, so, um, three members of planning to work here this evening are Jesse Newberry, Robbie's work staff, and me, I'm Annette Lewis, I'm the chair of the board. Um, so, let's review, Robert, uh, our draft minutes, um, public comments. One matters not on the agenda. Are there any public comments on matters not on the agenda? Is there anybody online, Robert, with public comments? I'll see the picture of AdWords. Okay. Um, let's move on to, uh, our draft minutes of 92. Yep. So I sent those out last week in the packet. Um, we've got comments from one of the board, and we should be ready to be approved. Were there any changes from the time you sent it out, please? Uh, not since I received it, not since Friday. I sent that out on Friday. Okay. Not received. No. Is there a motion to approve? I'll make the motion to approve. And I'll second. Okay. Um, the motion, uh, was made and seconded to approve minutes of 9, 10, 20, 25. So we have a few minutes before that. We're going to fill in with some of our others. Um, Robert, do you have any updates for us? No. The only update I have would be, um, the 835, the plan, the, I would form the associate dwelling units. That's the only area for that. I mean, I need to provide you the updates for now. We have the next meeting on the 12th. Right. Now we have 530. Um, and I would form at seven o'clock to 830. After that, then we have November 19th. And now we have 530. Um, and I would form at seven o'clock to 830. After that, then we have November 19th. And now we have the next meeting on the 12th. And now we have 530, um, and I would form at seven o'clock to 830. After that, then we have November 19th and that would be the dash of the new we held in the COA. I have the agenda, which Robert has received and everybody's reviewed 17 million times. Um, we have, I think, a good flow set up for the forum. We've got people coming to attend, um, and hopefully be able to present some basic information and maybe get a little feedback from people who were present. Um, trying not to be very specific about what we're talking about, but offering just general information to people. General information. How do you go about? Yes. Accessories. What do I do to everybody? Yes. So we have reviews of building departments handout and edited that because there were some things that were, seemed intuitive to somebody in the building department. But if you picked up that sheet, you were reading, you'd be like, I don't know what it means to get an HCLS CF permit. I don't know what that is. So we talked about sort of putting in there just basic information that that's something you get from your architect or from your insurer or from your builder, uh, where you go to the planning department to get something, where you go. So we tried to make those things more informative. Um, so we edited the one the planning department has in the building department one, and hopefully those are ready for, ready for prime time. Ready to go. It's terrific. Do you have your hand on the Salsa? A panelist or also. Okay. Now being held in the COA. The old COA. The old COA. The old COA. The old COA. Yeah, we gave it a name. Yeah, they should. It's the same computer. Uh, Jen. Uh, Jen. I was going to say, I was going to say, I asked Larry, but he's not here. Any update from CPC. Okay. Um, how are you doing on the stuff with, uh, conservation? Getting combined hearings? Uh, I think we're doing for November 19 is the plan. Okay. That's next time the conservation is meeting. That'd be a plan that day. Okay. What about, what about number 12? I could ask, but we, uh, we don't know what conservation means. They were on the 19th. Okay. Um, we need to try and organize stuff so that we have it at the same time with Dr. Church. Um, and we've been sharing the, uh, your review with conservation. As I know that some of them have just written, and that's your plan. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to be going to invite the conservation commission, so it's me and my 12. If you would like. You can do that. Thank you. Yeah. If we're going to be talking about stormwater at all, then I think they should be there. Right. Oh, right. I told you. I told you it had to be remote for that time. I don't know as well. That's probably as long as. Yeah. 19th. I'm good though. That means on the fiber, just a reminder. Thank you. Thank you. I know we have a lot of times and it's complacent. We have the rooms next evening. So. Um, we still haven't been talking on Linux. Um, are there any, uh, comments or concerns current? I think we would have had some more student. It's best. Um, I was just going to say, if there's roof road on the 19th, I want to try. If there's roof road on the 19th, I don't know. Bylaw. Yeah. I know we're already jam-packed about the trial. Also, there would be a new A&R for an acquired plan for the 19th. I just have to ask the applicant for an extension of one day. And, um, did you check the plan? It came in like yesterday. Okay. Make sure you check it. I, I, I, I already. Yeah. I could build a tab, but I, yeah. We should be, we should say it should be. It looks good. Based on my little testing bar. Did you need to update on the outdoor diving earlier? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. Okay. It's in the zone. But our guidelines were. Okay. We're going to get six minutes. Um. Sure. Any updates on the land building? No. Well, we have a meeting coming up. The last one we had. You talked about it. The last one we had was about two or three weeks ago. Um. This is the route told south land building. Yeah. They're drilling for, um, for what's within the, uh, the dump area, the landfill area itself. They gave examples. Yeah. And, um, they're having the, we are having the consultants come up with proposals, uh, in terms of what that area perhaps could be put there. Um, you know, um, recreation, affordable housing, things like that. And, uh, the plan is to have a, uh, a timeline meeting and get some input from the town members. That's sort of what they would like to see. But, um, start off with, uh, skill and, uh, conceptual ideas, which would then be presented and people could react to that as well as add their dreams of what would go there. I, I could not have a time there. That's slow. Larry's coming now. That's the 19th to the 5th. 19th is not happening. Over the 95 years. I'll send an email. He did. He rescinded. I'll send an email. I'll send an email. I haven't gone through it. The next two meetings are, um, in person. as well. I had a senior moment and I forgot so I'm sorry if I do it again which I hope I won't find time can you tell us the process for today's public comments it seems to be mr. last night well I was going to say it in the beginning of the hearing if that's okay so that it's part of the records for that hearing I will ask however if you do not keep repeating the same things because we've got lots of material from you we've read it we understand it and we know that you all have very similar concerns if something new and different or if one person wants to do the whole recitation it's great but I ask you to just not keep going or doing the same stuff unless there's a slow nuance that you can give us guidance on I hope everybody's signed in so that we have your names and lessons if you ask for the emails as well I don't know I have any of the emails in the comments I have 715 so we're going to start It's 715 and we're going to begin PB 2503 3735 Waltham Road the Paro school site plan through the public hearing what we'll do this evening is the school will give us a brief presentation the planning board will ask any questions that it has and that it will be open up to the public to ask questions and make comments depending on how many people want to make comments they might start off limiting you to two minutes at a time but then we cannot ask how many people have comments if they can make track of who's on track of who's online for attendees and also if they have their hands I want to just begin because I know everyone wants a last meeting with what the requirements are that we're constrained by this is a site plan approval it's different than anything because it is what's known as a global limit approval it's different than any other site plan it's limited there are only certain things that we have jurisdiction over the way that the statute reads as it relates to this particular educational use is Massachusetts general law chapter 48 section 3 and it provides an irrelevant part legal zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit regulate or restrict the use of land or structures for educational purposes on land owned or leased by a nonprofit educational corporation provided however that such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes lot area setbacks open space parking and building coverage requirements that is what the Dover amendment says we have also our very own bylaw in Greenland which is zoning bylaw section 198-601 it essentially mirrors the parameters of the Dover amendment but it's a little more expressive because it incorporates some of the things that are in case law so 606.3 says when reviewing and acting on a site plan application for the principal use of land or a building or structure or daycare educational or religious uses exempt from regulation under Massachusetts general law chapter 48 section 3 the planning board shall apply reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structure and determining yard sizes lot area setbacks open space parking and building coverage requirements as set forth in this zoning bylaw except to the extent that the applicant shows that the regulation is unreasonable and unrelated to a legitimate municipal concern and will substantially detract or diminish from the applicant's ability to conduct the exempt use so those are our general guidelines I know that you have concerns about things that aren't on that list and the school I believe will be addressing those but some things we as a board will not be able to accomplish and you as citizens speaking with the school may be able to accomplish okay so I'll call the school now for recently great I'm the uh here we go yeah I just found it popped up I just want to make sure that I don't know where my audio is my audio box is that right? and then this will pick up and then do I have opportunity to share very good very good as as this is loading I just want to introduce myself my name is Carrie DeLeo a school or consulting group we are the owner's project management firm engaged by Carroll School so what's it the audience here yes I usually have a pretty black voice we do have some of our team here but the goal for us tonight is is really to hear you know maybe what we haven't heard yet so what we thought we'd do is just really quickly run through what we have heard who we have heard it from um we've started collecting all of the feedback and our our goal is to answer some questions that we can tonight but also to make sure that when we are able to answer all of the questions that we've we've heard everything that is out there right um let's see share see so we will get started just like that yeah yeah what you see there is not what I see online let's just make sure I can get it so change the gallery center right is that better? it's it's on here it's on the screen I can I got it I leave this way so that might be yeah it's off limit you can see that that would very good make sure we can still see you right that's great that's enough good hopefully too great so I thought we'd start really quickly by letting everyone you know maybe that hasn't been um in some of these other meetings know where we are in the process um we did file for a site plan approval we had our initial introduction to whalen planning on the 15th of October that was followed by a town of Lincoln select board meeting on the 20th of October where they did hear a public comment uh concurrently we have submitted the septic design to board of health we've also submitted an A&R plan to the town um which will just connect 37, 39, 45 walk in road into one parcel those are all parcels that have been uh owned for some time by by carl school we've uh started our process with conservation we filed for uh chapter 193, 194 and a RDA with CONSCOM and we are uh hoping that with this combination um CONSCOM planning meeting we can maybe answer all the stormwater feedback questions uh once we're here tonight um for public comment and we again have been notified that the 19th might be an opportunity to see multiple boards at once uh where we've received uh comments from to date uh so the town of whalen planning town of whalen dpw and fire uh preliminary board of health feedback but nothing um formalized yet we've received feedback in writing from Lincoln select board um the whalen and lincoln police chiefs also met with the school and were awaiting their written comments but we heard some feedback there we received the public comment at the town of lincoln select board meeting um as you mentioned a number of emails letters uh etc that have come in from a butters that robert has has provided to us and then recently we've also received the peer review uh that ect ect did on behalf of the planning board and conservation commission uh so what we are hearing uh many of these not surprising concerns are traffic uh the the lens the lighting of the parking lots and the timing of that lighting the landscape software at waltham road both um you know in the in the final position of the development uh we heard a number of items uh regarding safety on waltham road that i think carol would like to acknowledge that they agree with some of those um um whether they're within the the realm of this project or not um and then also just communication neighborhood concerns um more general concerns for operations um etc um i just wanted to outline um as it relates to traffic uh the areas where they you see the blue stars uh as well as those two little flags uh the intersections that have already been studied as part of the traffic impact assessment study um so there were about eight uh seven i think there's seven intersections right uh immediately adjacent to the carroll property as well as the intersection um of 117 and old sudbury road and then also the intersection of 126 and waltham road through the comments that we've seen um we've heard two two additional items that we think want to be studied one is um doing some calculation and assessment at what would be considered non-peak hours so the morning peak seems to be concurrent with uh neighborhood uh commuter traffic the afternoon peak um there was some an ask to study not only commuting traffic peak but but also carroll school traffic peak uh the other thing we heard was that uh it would be nice to add the intersection up at 117 and with lincoln road as you would go towards the center of town would be 117 and lincoln road or waltham road and 172 no well i mean it's not 17 waltham road and lincoln and that one is our that one is our yeah yeah that's that uh i think that's the left oh sorry yeah so this would be up up all the way up that 117 uh headed towards the transit station uh lighting again uh is a concern um you know similar to the approval that was given in 2016 you know would be still the same uh methodology so dark sky compliant lighting um which means really that there's no uh up lighting there's no lanterns it's all down lights and that there's no back spill and that means that you know at the property lines the the lights are not lighting uh neighbors yards um there are areas where there will be pedestrian lighting the idea is that those will be even lower poles or more focal focal lighting and then um there's a commitment by carroll to time time the lighting in a way that you know balances site safety student safety but then also isn't lighting up the neighborhood after after carroll has left for the day i wanted to talk briefly and i'll you know just let you all know i'm not the landscape architect but to talk about let me just go off here um talk about the the approach to the landscape buffer so um as you know there's quite a dense buffer that exists that was there from the original development that that has been uh maintained and um was modified slightly when we did the last round of development the idea would be to do something similar uh in this round which would be those areas here where you can see what they're calling zone one plantings those are kind of the existing curve cuts that come into the site um and or areas for example 37 wall dam road uh does not have that that vegetative barrier so those don't want plantings that's been the approach to um to add plantings there i'll show you in a moment what that means but the the thought process there is that those would be uh focus on dense shrubbery evergreen shrubbery that will help with things like headlights and uh ground level uh barriers um can you these are talk about the heights of them as you go through it to the extent that i can yes again not just as always i don't want to over that um but this is the idea these types of um you know if you plant tall trees along the road they're not really going to give you that buffer because they you'll just see the trunk so the thought is that keep some of the density down low on the ground so that it actually covers um you know for people driving by walking by etc um and these are just some examples of the species that they have uh again wanted to acknowledge some of the feedback that we've received that we don't know is specific to carroll school versus specific to general waltham road comments right so there are not sidewalks on waltham road um there are uh we've heard again and again from neighbors but also carroll shares this uh concerns of speeding on that road um and then i i understand that some of the neighboring roads are not striped they're kind of you know wide drives as opposed to a economic growth um we also uh heard a number of comments about those 2016 conditions of approval and i think carol is going into this project assuming there will be a similar type document that restrict you know field use uh parking in and drop up and pick up protocols site lighting use um and then landscaping and maintenance trash deliveries etc what i think we learned uh through the public comment that we've received in writing is that there may be items on that list that may not be compliant that carroll may not have been aware of so you'll see here uh this school has already set up an email for concerns like this kind of a see something say something right many of the folks that are managing the school are not on campus when the trash folks come over the land paper show so you know they invite the the neighbors that if they do see someone that is you know has been told to arrive at eight that is arriving at six please let them know so that they can redirect and that's all i had again the idea for us is to just kind of let you know what we have heard to date and then open it up so that we can hear anything that maybe we haven't been given feedback on yet and can you please state um what the email address is so that yes they would like to yeah it's carol neighbors all one word c-a-r-r-o-l-l-n-e-i-g-h-e-o-r-s at carol school.org okay yes thank you um i guess uh certainly i guess um i'd like to hear from the board peer reviewer before the board topics comments uh thank you chair jason cradle from ect um obviously our based on our review we did provide a significant number of comments uh board has those i don't know if you prefer me to go through those i think or go back highlights what do you think is the most important things to infer but i love you knowing the board channel yeah sure in general we went through your 198 uh section 198 uh with the overlay the flood protection and aquifer parking lot lighting was a comment that we also made um so this was interesting to see your your photometric study so far um here that that's going to be addressed uh some questions on uh earth movement obviously the off street parking regulations uh which i've seen that go pretty significantly in the comments from the neighbors uh bicycle racks uh parking layout and dimensional compliance those were pretty general and i've been directed to oak uh de if they're in compliance don't deal with them or need to either just say they're in compliance or don't deal with them for now um one question i think we have to the board was uh if this would be subjective design review onto your section 198 probably i don't think so it is it is it is we've already we've already had it with some knowledge i'm sorry we can't hear you sorry yes they've already applied this time board they did yes okay and hopefully we get some good comments on that so we'll see them okay uh the environmental sensitivity uh wetland tree removal obviously it's now submitted an rda to the conservation commission uh complying with height restrictions uh is in allowable use those did not did not appear to be including uh ada ramps at this time i'm not sure if that's being included in a follow-up uh there was uh a number of conflicts on the uh vehicle traffic within the in the site you're gonna have the turning templates the turning radius of fire truck and buses which i think on the site plan was confirmed that full-size buses would be be would be accessing the site uh stormwater uh with stormwater uh it was not clear if a uh stormwater and land disturbance uh stormwater management land disturbance permit had been submitted
there were a number of comments on the on the calculations that were completed now that i don't know if we need to do with those on stormwater and so uh the infiltration pretreatment did not be standard i believe that you got that comment also from uh one of the abutters uh peer review uh who also engaged a reviewer uh soil suitability just needs to be confirmed and uh one thing i don't think we saw i could begin with a site plan review but certainly offered a comment of how the infiltration base would be protected during construction uh with traffic uh was clear that from the traffic study that
85 percentile speeds were well above the posted speed limit of 30 miles an hour uh i'm sure again that seems to be something that you've indicated is both the town and apparel's goal concern i'm interested to see that response uh we're interested to understand if motor vehicle crash data was was provided from the individual towns and beyond the 2001 date for mass dot uh confirming the number of current staff members who are part of the trips that are making up the existing we did have a question regarding the after-school athletics uh vehicle trips associated with spectators which again is a comment that we saw uh frequently in the in the neighborhood comments that should be directed to your traffic consultant uh regarding the actual calculations that were done and some of the timing timing and observations um through the traffic uh septic systems design review is there do i assume there is no food preparation on site the answer to that was no no yes okay correct correct correct yes uh the uh layout the site septic layout for both showing the exist uh post on the conventional layout reserve area and the layout that you prefer were all there and compliant there was a lack of detail on the septic system itself uh which in relation to this is mostly just understanding the layout and where those are positioned uh obviously board of health will review the actual components from the peer reviewer for the board of health as well i have not seen the subject design yet robert and you're supposed to be reviewed so yeah okay just make sure you are compliant with the field size of the subject system those those may have with the general comments follow the reviews and your comments have already been submitted to carroll school they have been submitted uh i will add that i did forward to robert uh just three three additional uh comments that were uh that came up after reviewing uh what we received the additional comments we received from uh staff staff at the abutters and the uh and the two reviewers that reviewed on behalf of the of others and all of our materials are posted on the planning board website under uh planning board projects which is on the left hand side of the web page click on that and go to 2026 applications and the application is is there i'm sorry 2020 2020 25 sorry uh in the application exactly 26 um in the application and um all the paperwork going back and forth is there did you put public guidance on uh i don't know that's fine
does the board members of the board have any questions thank you i just i don't know go ahead just i just want to clarify the bike rack situation sorry the on the on the bike rack speak a little louder um i'm sorry i'll be back in the
in the design the bike racks trying to find the exact number i think there's a i can jump in on there so it says 12 racks but i think it's it's just 12 bicycles on a few racks well i think in general there's a recommendation right but the reality is that carol's has very few kids that would ever ride their bikes and so they are asking that we you know maybe don't put them all in because bike racks tend to be a place for bikes to go to die so 12 racks though the coverings no 12 12 racks right well they're asking for three we're asking for yeah yeah three we've told the company 10 in the map 118 postpartum spaces you would need 10 spaces per bike that's 12 you need space for 12 bikes 12 bikes yes so it's not 12 racks like it says here yeah that's what's confusing as well how many bicycles do you have to hold on site versus how many racks do you put in it's 12 what bike racks 12 12 no no it's 12 bicycles a rack for 12 bikes that could be that could be four two six right i see what you're saying yeah i couldn't follow that either material you don't know how many bikes a rack hold something for three bicycles not 12. that would be the idea yeah and again it's not a deal breaker but it you know bike racks tend to again collect right it was just it wasn't clear yeah and to be clear for right now that's the only waiver that you're seeking is the bike rack waiver and everything else you've got yes doesn't need a waiver correct okay no i think so for people who weren't aware we had a site visit to the site last week uh i thought it was a productive opportunity to share information with the school and to hear their information in return uh we walked the site and it was i think the school was very receptive to listening to the feedback that we'd received from the community and that we had ourselves and i just wanted to share that do you have any questions i do not think wrongly i have that requested them i do what i did want to bring up that they the police chiefs both towns didn't meet and most of their um agreements were about traffic so they have their read it out loud they're what you can read it read it loud sure so we have brought out view of the traffic so these are following recommendations for wayland lincoln and do a steep study so we have a whole assessment of traffic impact on both communities we also expand the assessment study beyond the two days as part of the
so we have a broad overview of traffic with wayland lincoln and we'll do our own study so we have our own assessment of the traffic impact on both communities we also expand we also expand this study beyond the two days that as part of the bus and omeo traffic study the town of lincoln has requested that carroll school conduct another expanded traveling study to study the impact on lincoln roads uh second recommendation create a school zone in front of carroll school with a reduced speed of 20 mile per hour for one hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon using soil power school zone lengths for the mitigation of the additional traffic also considered the installation of traffic signals at the intersection of congregate road and wall front road so most of their um recommendations were about traffic and potentially bring in a school zone and that's also on our web page is that correct uh that one that one just came in and we both said um i'd like to open it up to public comment uh and when you speak please state your name and address
do i have to go back to their seats yeah sure you can come to the table yeah i think they're interested on that yeah i think so but you might want to just leave that open please uh good evening members of the board my name is dan hill i recognize some of you folks um i'm here on behalf of the neighbors to the carroll school uh some of them live in whalen some live in lincoln uh they've submitted comment letters uh to the board they've met with uh boards in lincoln we have submitted a comment letter uh we've also submitted uh technical peer review letters on behalf of the neighbors from uh our civil engineer john chesia uh as well as our hydrologist scott worsley uh both of whom have done a fair amount of work in wayland on other projects in town um my comments tonight really are just limited to questions and i want to state from the outset that as you probably already know the folks uh who are neighbors and butters to the school are not looking to stop this project everyone's very realistic that this is a dover amendment use um don't did the school has been a good neighbor uh we hope that the school continue to be a good neighbor um the concerns that have been raised are primarily about the size and expansion of the campus and the impact that that expansion will have on day-to-day quality life issues um traffic is probably the biggest one uh but there are also concerns about environmental impacts uh and there's also a sort of broader concern about where does this end what is the long-term plan of the school um one of the one of the things that really stuck out at me when i read the traffic study was that the traffic study was talking about trip generation as a increase as opposed to what the total trips are um i don't think it perfectly from love but i don't think there was anything in the traffic study that actually tells us what the existing trip generation is of the 50 student population all we saw was what the trip generation will be of the of the additional students which is 904 trips if the total trips of this project is over a thousand i believe correct me if i'm wrong i think that triggers or trips of meepa filing environmental notification form uh for for the project uh so i think it's very important that this board in the town of whalen and the town of lincoln understand what is the grand plan here we don't want to segment this segmentation is a bad thing we want to know what the long-term plan of the school is what are they going to do with this campus in another nine years it was nine years ago that they they applied and received site plan approval what's going to happen in another nine years what are their plans with the other land that they own they own a lot of land in wayland they own a big chunk parcel of land at the at the end of apple tree lane uh there's a house back there which i believe is used by by the school for their headmaster um but there's also a huge field behind that house um so a lot of questions are still outstanding our goal are being the neighbors and the butters our goal is to understand what the impacts of this project is so that we can then provide our comments to you um specifically i just a question of process i think to start with um i don't say broadly the uh peer review reports and the town comments are posted i i didn't see them so if it's possible to get that those like your letters tonight i didn't see that on the website so it's possible to get those posted maybe tomorrow that would be very helpful yeah i will will say we have two giant projects that they're happening so yeah it's a lot of when you receive it we send it to the app but there's the extra step of trying to put online too so okay i wrote down the ones that need to be posted but they were great great thank you very much um the other process question we had was who was sent notice of the hearing um i know that whalen residents got notices but for did lincoln residents get noticed as i i would as i really bashed on a lot for site plans i wouldn't say have to be sent to them like your neighbors to get extended to the lincoln planning correct all the planning boards got notified and i've had and they know the point lincoln picked it up and they had a select board meeting and all the neighbors come so they are they are aware they are aware so we're not required under um so i can't hear anything you're saying i said i don't believe that we were required to under the site plan review okay so i i think we i and i'll check this as well i i thought that any public hearing under the zoning act required notice to a butter's direction i think a special permit but you can double check i think it's so good to come in there and i think even this thing was didn't have to be particularly notified from the left site plan even at that site plan method of mass general law didn't have to be notified
yeah we go ahead and do it anyways right beyond the law no okay um one of the one of the big questions we all have is construction management um is there going to be a construction management plan uh submitted by the applicant to this board to review for us to comment comment on as well the the construction of this building and the related infrastructure obviously have a major impact on people travel on wolfdam road so that's something that should be submitted uh and peer reviewed and and to allow some discussion about um my understanding is that the existing pool house is going to be demolished as part of the project that pool house currently i believe is the facilities or or building management uh structure is that use going to be then transferred to some other location on the site and if so where um i don't think that's been answered by the outcome yeah the pool house we're told is used for uh meetings it's not a maintenance facility um building on the next property over which i think is 37 is the one i believe that they use okay i was confusing for once and the site visit we were informed excuse me that the pool house would be demolished and what about that maintenance building is that that would be demolished as well yeah okay so where is the maintenance facility going to be do we know that they're going to use the barn and other place other carol's properties is what they told us but i'm sure that they won't answer that question okay and the barn it's not supposed to be there right that's supposed to be taken away yeah nothing i know okay there was a barn on the campus prior to the first space that was demolished as part of that okay second part second part okay um there was reference to a traffic peer review do you all have a traffic peer review consultant working on this yeah oh okay i thought that was something separate and are you submitting a report for traffic it was part of this it was part of what was the comments that works okay great do you want me to send you a copy after me yeah they would hear you i guess i need a copy right thank you just so you have it um yeah the traffic's going to be something that we're going to weigh in on as well um so after we see that report yeah i i was really struck by the increase in the number of trips obviously 900 trips on a road that accommodates 2000 and that's that's a huge increase in a burden on that road um and that's that's something that i think deserves a lot of attention um the afternoon peak was this was just mentioned is that something the applicant is going to actually do are you going to adjust to your traffic setting to improve your trip numbers yeah so the current peak uh is uh understood to be evening commute time but it was absent to study as many there's people just cool okay and i'm sorry i'm asking very directly um and then just related to that is the applicant going to do what the police chief recommended by collecting additional data beyond two days i think he was he was suggesting there should be more time more data should be collected i think that the town said that they were going to do that is that right robert that that was what they wanted to do in their peer review or they recommended that we do that uh this was a wayland town wayland town lincoln the steep study that they would like to do yeah if they would do they would do the collecting police chiefs i think uh they would do it it is a stealth study and it's just them putting out you know why are some uh they using cameras now yeah but i also wasn't at the meeting so i can't can't just i can't have a letter yeah okay um and then finally now i'm sure it's okay with you wait we do have uh mr chesia and mr horsley here tonight on zoom uh they did file letters but it's okay to have them provide very brief uh comments hitting the high points of their comments i would appreciate it so uh if john chesia would raise his hand can you can you hear me can you hear me yeah yes we can yeah go ahead okay thank you um and i'll be brief but there's a few things that i guess struck me during my review i looked at the 2016 approved plans and i looked sort of in depth that their stormwater analysis and their model from 2016 and what became really apparent to me as i looked at that is that the 2025 model either the site was not constructed in accordance with the approved plans uh or the model ignored certain aspects of what was proposed and what it does is gives a stormwater runoff baseline much higher than what was approved in 2016 and that just doesn't seem fundamentally correct um if you have an approved plan and you say you're going to build something and you're going to do it in a certain way it seems that that should be the baseline for moving forward with a neck with a you know second phase of a project and that's not what's occurred in this case uh the rain gardens are smaller than they were supposed to be there are areas that aren't even listed that were infiltration systems uh and there's a lack of detail on the plans to show where some of these even are um and as far as that goes that's sort of a fundamental thing you have to show all of the components of the stormwater system on the plan there's something like nine dry wells for the existing building but there's no in no idea where they are and it's very important to know where they are because there are setbacks for these systems that are required there's setbacks from septic systems as well as setbacks from property lines and things like that they have a lot of property i doubt they're that close to the property line but they're building an entirely new septic system and reserve area and without identifying where every element of the drainage is how do we know that the septic system complies there's no information to show that it does so i think that's those are sort of critical things another thing is that soils look to be suitable for infiltration purposes seems to be sandy but the groundwater table is fairly high and every one of the systems proposed would require a mounding analysis and none of that's been done and when you do those bounding analysis sometimes you find out that you put a lot of ground runoff into the ground the groundwater rises under the system and then you don't have the appropriate separation and the systems won't function as proposed so those are those are pretty fundamental uh drainage things that need to be addressed um in addition and some of this was brought up by your peer reviewer but the there is an increase in impervious area clearly because they're building more buildings and parking but there's also an increase that isn't even treated all stormwater runoff needs to be treated parking lots and things like that have to be treated to a higher level with pre-treatment to prevent the infiltration systems from clogging but even roofs need to have some treatment and they have a fairly significant area that would not have any treatment at all so i haven't seen the peer review letter from your consultant to see if all those issues are covered but uh if not i think they're critical issues that should be addressed it doesn't seem fair to come in with a site that's clearly multiple phases and then the first phase you don't build it right or you don't show the information right to get your runoff to go up and then use that as the base for the next to the middle that you come in with that just i think that's a very important issue to be addressed and i thank you for your time and if you have any questions i'm happy to answer the materials that you presented i thought that i saw that um even though we felt that it wasn't built uh to the first uh approval specifications we thought that with the information that they had and did present that it was what they were proposing was compliant
are you asking me that question no i am so when i compared the runoff rates from the proposed case from 2016 to the existing case in 2025 the existing case in 2025 is a significant increase even i know they added some land area but it's significant even without that what i was asking was using the data for 2025 going forward it was my understanding that you felt that it would be compliant no there's still issues that are non-compliant which i detailed in my letter okay thank you um and ed if i could just ask john to clarify that that answer though because i think my understanding talking to john about this issue is that if we're to disregard what was a what was designed and approved in 2016 and go with what's actually on the site in 2025 that means that what was done in 2016 actually doesn't comply with the permit back then so i think that's not where we are now because a planning board maybe we were a member of approved that project and it went forward so if it wanted to comply with that then it's a shame it shouldn't be caught but it wasn't so we're starting from around zero today and that's what i was asking about right when i read this letter the sense that i got was that starting today going forward what they were proposing would be comfortable and so you know you can correct me that's my impression i think there's i think what john's saying is that there still are non-conformities but maybe the runoff standard two might be from the compliance but there are other non-conformities which he addressed okay perhaps you can't you have to happen yeah we can we can clarify that for the next meeting um and then scott worsley is here as well mr horsley can you hear me okay madam chairman yes i can thank you and i will be brief as well i i also submitted a letter just four or five quick points the first one is on the uh site plans i did notice looking at mass gis there's another surface water feature that appears along the eastern property line that shows up on mass gis i don't believe it's on the site plans it may be considered a wetland resource area so i simply am asking to evaluate that and determine whether or not that's something that should be on the site plan as an existing water feature and if if so does it have uh jurisdictional issues and i included a copy of the mass gis map that shows that water feature it appears to be connected with the pond that is on the adjacent site but it runs right along the property line the eastern property line the second point is test pits matt this project needs to comply with the mass dep stormwater handbook there are either two or three test pits required for each infiltration system there are three major infiltration systems as part of the new proposed plan and i pro i provided a table summary table for infiltration system number one there are three test pits required none have been provided within the footprint of that infiltration facility that i see on the on the submittal with the stormwater report for infiltration system number two there are two required test pits again none are none are provided and then the third infiltration facility there are two required and one test pit was required to sorry provided test pit 203 so there's still one missing so according to my review of the plans there are a number of additional test pits required and this is important as john chesia mentioned this site does have shallow groundwater as i'll get to in a minute and i i would suspect based upon the amount of additional water being brought onto the property which will generate additional waste water and the increase in impervious surfaces i think the water table is going to be increasing even more than it is now so these test pits again required under the mass stormwater handbook in my view would be absolutely important to make sure that we have a good handle on depth of groundwater at the areas where the applicant is proposing to infiltrate stormwater as well as the waste water point number three and again john mentioned this groundwater mounting is required under the state requirements if the depth the groundwater beneath the stormwater infiltration system is less than four feet as i've already said in two cases we have no test pits we don't know how deep it is although i'm guessing it's within the four feet on system number three according to the site plan submitted it's 2.42 feet which is less than the four feet therefore there's a groundwater mounting analysis required in that system i believe that groundwater mounting analysis would be required in all three systems in conjunction with the wastewater system and i have not seen that information point number four is that the stormwater report suggests that the again based upon the increase in pervious surface the proposed stormwater design is sized at 19 264 cubic feet the existing recharge is 2100 cubic feet that's a difference of almost a factor of a 10 increase which again is going to increase groundwater levels on the site so this simply supports my earlier comment that uh the site is already constrained by shallow groundwater i think after the site is developed as proposed the shallower groundwater will get even more shallow and i believe that needs to be taken into account again consistent with the mass dep stormwater handbook and my last comment is on the is on the uh wastewater system i did get to review that recently attorney hill sent that over to me i think yesterday the day before and there is a groundwater mounting analysis provided there however the uh analysts use a duration of one day and my understanding is that dep requires 90 days i've so i've started to draft a comment letter on that as well i think again between the wastewater system and the and the three major infiltration systems there's some significant groundwater mounding which again refers to increases in water groundwater levels beyond what they already are which as john mentioned already is quite shallow so i will stop there uh madam chair and certainly happy to answer any questions are there any thank you are there any other proper comments yes please but what yeah so that would be great thank you
hi i'm zach topias i live at uh eight old farm circle but i'm a 42 year resident of whalen i moved here went to clayford hill school i'm a lifelong uh public school student and graduate and moved back here uh 12 years ago tomorrow um with my kids um with my kids thinking that we were going to be going to public schools in whalen but both of my kids are dyslexic and thank goodness that carol exists because 20 of people i now know have dyslexia have difficulty reading and carol is a wonderful institution that educates them incredibly well they're they're both in the elementary school and so i sit here as a resident of whalen benefits enormously from this institution i've been struck that the plans take into account uh a huge amount of thought um and planning for the future i will also say that um i've had friends that have moved from around the world to come to whalen to go to the carol school so it is part of the academic institutions that make whalen incredible and while i am not a directive butter here i am one of happy hollow and and the high school and i grew up on a road without sidewalks by clayford hill so there is a history in whalen of putting these incredible institutions in neighborhoods um i hope that this project does proceed because i think that it will be of great value to the community uh if i'm um audible now my name is stan rosenthal at 127 lincoln road um i am near a butter but on the road end but on the um back end uh there's a major butter on the west side that's not represented here which is the wetlands of the hazel brook and i had i guess i have a question for the hydrology expert that spoke earlier as this water table rises is it possible that the backup on hazel brook could flood uh my pond which would diminish the size of my property and has the effects on the hazel brook wildlife been studied by the conservation committee i'll i'll take my answer off the air here is that something that you think we're um consulting can respond to now or do you i'm not consulting i mean i don't take it away sorry um to the school is that something that you can respond to now or is that something that you'd like to do with the next minute okay i guess i'm not sure i really understand the question i think the question is is the groundwater likely to be high enough that it will impact the hazel brook area i would say no that's not likely but we're talking about a very small area where you're getting a certain amount of recharge from the proposed system spread that out over miles square miles it's not even perceptible i don't know if the um person who's speaking mr rosenbaugh is comfortable with that any other questions mr rosenbaugh hopefully that's answered uh the and um the uh runoff into the wildlife area known as the hazel brook conservation uh track which uh which runs into the sudbury valley trustees has that been studied at all how close is that to the property boundary sir mr rosenbaugh i'm asking you do you have anything the the uh from the aerial view the hazel brook um headwaters if you will uh are the uh playing fields of the carroll school so runoff from those playing fields and i know there's a pond uh that uh is probably a retention pond uh that that's constructed there and maybe that's supposed to keep the runoff from getting into the hazel brook area which which contains well to see if they can respond to that
can we see if mr creel has any comments as well certainly alexis shewitz to apple tree lane um i just wanted to draw attention to the comments that we submitted yesterday evening from 60 abutters from wayland and lincoln um any of us here tonight on the phone um there is still quite a bit of anxiety and i i wouldn't characterize it as entirely mistrust but anxiety about what's going on and it sounds like the planning board has had some conversations either through the site visit or other places that perhaps you guys are more comfortable with what's going on have your questions answered but we have not i mean and just having the questions acknowledged it's not the answers so i guess i would just say um you know we can continue to be just anxious and and looking for you know some response on some of these issues that were raised in our letter so thank you i will say that um we haven't all had all of the answers we have another hearing coming uh and we'll talk about it in a minute and i believe that that time uh the spirit is planning on responding to all the comments great yes madam chair um members of the board my name is andy pickett i live in 12 long meadow road uh i've been there since 1972 off and on so 53 years on long meadow road um i do want to speak specifically briefly to ask questions about long meadow road because we are always billed as one of the few quiet residential streets in lincoln that has kids playing on it dogs uh everything and this proposal and we fully support the carroll school my neighbor's child went to the carroll school in lincoln it's a wonderful institution but the concern is undue impact on the abutters and with long meadow road in particular i guess i have two questions that i hope the carroll school will answer number one to the prior speaker's question i hope we will get answers to our detailed letter that was sent i realize only yesterday october 28th but i hope that the carroll school will commit to giving us detailed answers honest answers and they probably can't agree to everything that's been asked for but if we could get a commitment to get answers to that letter in some sort of timely fashion before the next hearing i think that would help with the anxiety that is being felt and the second thing i want to touch on because we didn't get a chance for public comment at the last planning board hearing is the traffic consultant said something or one of the carroll school representatives said something about protocols for mitigating traffic particularly on the side streets on residential side streets and i don't know what those protocols are our parents told not to not see unduly burden side streets like long meadow road and use it as a cutoff um those of us who've been on long meadow road for a long time there has been an increase in traffic and we are a flat street road with one curve and people do go speeding down the street so i i don't know if carroll school can speak to whether they advise parents not to unduly burden the side streets with queuing up or speeding or taking using them as cutoffs so i don't know if they could comment on that but it would be a big help because obviously long meadow road we're trying to be good citizens we're not just a cul-de-sac that's a dead end um um and so it impacts us a lot if we have people i get it parents are in a hurry they're late they got to drop their kid off they got to pick their kid up but if they come speeding down our side street it's it's a safety issue um so alexis to your question about um sorry renee greenfield head of school nice to see you thanks for having us back again um um i'm really sorry this is causing so much anxiety so i just want to say that and here's what we're trying to do there is so much um public comment coming and has been coming and our approach has been which is what we do at school we gather all the information at one time with all the people and get it all together so that we can come back to you and give you everything follow on um there's a couple things we can um so andy to your questions so i'll answer two baby questions tonight but i hope that you know that we are very thoughtful people we have a great team um and we want to come back with you we want to come back to the board and to the neighbors with a comprehensive answer to as many questions as you can um so the baby question the baby question andy asked did to you the baby for me to answer and that is um carol's school both employees and families we continue to communicate to them that long meadow road is not a cutoff i cannot control their behavior after they leave the case right um so we will continue to do that the email address that we created this week um what i would say to the neighbors is use that if you see people parked on your road if we don't know that that's happening we can't really do anything about that um so um so that is that is there in terms of um people parking or using roads cut-offs cut-throughs um i just wanted to respond to renee um i do appreciate the approach of collecting information and coming back at once that information has been gathered and assessed and answered the flip side because that is just one way of doing it the flip side that i'm experiencing is while the information is being gathered i am hearing silence that causes anxiety secondly i would say that not all questions come to come to mind and then just get answered in one go answers to questions you get further questions it's called a conversation that's what i would ask for thank you thank you um to be clear i mean i'll continue as having you speak um we technically have 60 days from the time when an application is submitted and render a decision on the site plan we've already gotten one extension school might be kind enough to give us another so it's not going to be a long conversation i mean that we just don't have that ability so i just want you to understand that thank you i'm jennifer colin sullivan 37 long meadow road we live directly across from the carroll school campus in lincoln and we are going to be directly impacted by this proposal if it goes through as as described the new entrance that is proposed will be overlapping with our driveway and so while there are many many other comments that the the boards received and will received and without diminishing any of them i would ask the board to focus on the entry and exit design and specifically their proximity to long in a road a lincoln high school bus stop and our driveway the presentation that the school gave at the last board meeting i depicted an orderly flow of traffic coming in and out of the school what i'm not seeing and what we don't see in the traffic setting is what's happening in the queuing that we don't want to happen on the exterior roads the orderly flow of vehicles during peak times that the school describes entirely depends on the orderly flow of traffic at the intersection of these several points and it depends on there being no congestion there i did not see that addressed in the traffic study we'd like to see the peer review to see if it's addressed but if there is a point of congestion there and that's not being addressed i'd ask the board to focus on it and see if a revised traffic study is warranted and looking at that revised traffic study and directing the school to consider and propose alternate site designs for its entry and exit when we're backing out of our driveway during peak times or entering during peak times or the school bus from lincoln high school is coming through at peak times it will not be orderly traffic will come to a stop cars will be competing to enter an exit i'd like this focused on by school and it's certainly a very personal issue for us and a very pointed safety issue for us as we consider high volume trying to get in and out of the driveway and what that flow will then push onto long meadow road thanks very much peter and bb yes hi uh peter borden uh uh long meadow road uh 36 long meadow road um um i believe my trees are on the overhead pictures um and i just wanted to say first thank you for letting us uh listen and speak uh both at the last session and today um i wanted to state um in addition to the email that alexis uh show it sent out on behalf of the neighbors fully support that um there are already queuing issues um there are cars that sit outside of our house uh waiting uh um so of course the increase in numbers concerns us dr greenfeld said just now um cannot control the behavior uh of of the parents um after they leave the school so uh my concern is if there is not enough spaces for people to queue while they're waiting um that's going to impact the side streets uh along with all the traffic that we have already been seeing on long meadow um the other thing i i believe in the original uh traffic study there was a level of service f that that was then adjusted to be a level of service b based on a one-day study in february i'm hoping that the new studies will be multi-day studies um so that we'll have a full view and then just the last thing i wanted to ask um uh if there's insight in the long-term plan as to a consolidation of campuses and i ask this only because dr greenfeld i think last time said the the way to avoid um traffic issues and parking issues with events is that they were going to bus people from other campuses that's where they would have them park so if there was indeed large events they can move them over and i'm just i'm just wondering what the long-term consolidation is if that is indeed the intent for large events thank you very much thank you thank you for having me um sorry um leslie stewart 281 main street but i'm a seventh generation voice family member from old sudbury road so i know the area very well um it's a long night i want to say one one thing very very short um very precisely is schools make good neighbors i think carroll school has been a very good neighbor to the to the neighborhood i i i do see how the notice issues have been really alarming to people who live across the street who haven't been notified out of goodwill in some instances to get information that they are not legally required to receive um it would be a nice notice um the other thing is however while good schools are good neighbors um this neighborhood doesn't see the benefit of that general adage um the neighborhood doesn't get to use that land they don't get to cross over into the conservation areas they're not part of the community at carroll school they are very much just of others and they're the impact of the school is going to not have any positive uh benefits for this community so i encourage you to um make sure that the parking busing and traffic areas that we can control um are are part of our gift to that neighborhood as we consider this expansion uh thank you for taking public comment i'm ronald siegel 20 long meadow road uh this is the school is under no obligation to do this this is just a plea uh that because waldham road also bay road gets a great deal of pedestrian traffic i don't know if you're aware there's a the part of lincoln road which is unpaved a lot of people walk there with dogs with kids with the like and many of them coming from long meadow road and um between long meadow road and uh 117 are walking along old sudbury road waldham road the increase in vehicular traffic is going to make what's already a somewhat perilous wall considerably more perilous a number of us have been scoping out how difficult would it be to put the sidewalk at least in front of the uh the stone wall that's owned by the school uh so that most of that walk a good deal of it particularly where there's a curb in the road which is the most perilous part where cars you have to jump out of the way uh of course cars don't necessarily see you walking if the sidewalk were put there that would mitigate those safety issues somewhat especially considering that the school is going to be increasing traffic significantly um on the road it would require taking out uh a few of the deciduous trees that are between the the stone wall and the street but uh they they don't provide a great those deciduous trees are not providing a lot of barrier visual barriers you're saying it's the lower plants that they're going to put in that are going to be mostly shielding uh the view so i'm thinking that would be a gift to the neighborhood and mitigate some of the uh some of the difficulties of great traffic thank you thank you robbie um right in front of the stone wall is that the right way or is that part of their problem hard to check um it's not clear at the moment whether that that is even harrow's new land in front of it well let's check it in the previous owner planted those deciduous trees there relatively recently at least in my relatively recent memory shortly before the carol school uh acquired the link we'll check it to you thank you
Jeff Sias at 109 old subway road which is directly across the street from the carol school the 39 waltham road entrance um we want to put a finer point on the area of new parking that's going to be uh the expanded parking we feel like this is a pretty extreme amount of parking that's being added right on waltham road we have a concern with that both safety and also our neighborhood um if we look at the plans you see there's probably only about five to ten feet of buffer or feet of buffer space there i don't understand how the buffer plantings could actually do any sort of screening that they're proposing um it's a huge concern again from from safety from pedestrians if we do explore the idea of a sidewalk that reduces that buffer again i wonder if the board has any sort of say or oversight on the design of the parking plan and if there's the ability to request the parking be moved pretty significantly away from waltham road um i'm not sure if you have that oversight or not but we would encourage you to look at that plan i'm sure you saw that that issue during your walkthrough of the site and um i think that's the nuanced point that i'd like to put on the parking plan and see if that's something that you could address and and look at thank you very much david i want to start by saying that i feel a lot of pride in this neighborhood i've seen this neighborhood galvanized by this in a way that really makes me excited to be part of this community and i think that we all have a duty to one another to make decisions in the best interest of the community not for oneself the issue here has never been about the use let's be clear they've operated for nine years we're not talking about use we're talking with size scale and scope and i think rather than repeat what everyone else has said i do want to amplify andrew's comment which is this conversation mademoiselle really shouldn't be sure it should have started years ago my understanding is these plannings have been going on for close to three years at least the first time we learned about it with this year i've now sat through this presentation three times and i would say this presentation tonight was effectively a shoulder struggle renee you talk about collecting information but the information trickles to us tonight is the first night that i heard that the barn at the end of my cul-de-sac is going to be used for the maintenance tool and what happens with the driveway right behind my house that was supposed to be for emergency or savings that's not an educational use maintenance facility isn't mandatory for our school they can have it off-site they can they can outsource that is problematic and when we talk about erosion of trust that's issue number one um let me interrupt you a second one is you want to address the board not anyone else uh the other is we discussed that bar i'm not sure if we were correct so the carroll school will answer that that was my assumption i'm very interested to hear the answers to these questions and i hope that it's not simply that they take our feedback and just listen about the pain or say yes but but that they actually offer real solutions to some of these problems or real medication i think we have a duty to one another as neighbors and make no mistake they are a neighbor in this community
good evening thank you so much for all that you're doing here for wayland um my name is margaret mcconaughey i live at 297 concrete road which is i'm a neighbor um i know the gentleman said he was speaking for our neighbors and butters earlier but they're louder and slowly sure absolutely um the gentleman here earlier said that he was speaking for neighbors and butters and i just wanted to give voice to some other of us neighbors who are excited about this plan um my daughter attends carroll school uh it's an amazing school and i say to my friends and neighbors that this school is unique it's uh their motto is eric which stands for empathy respect inclusion and kindness this is a school where yes we can't even tell the parents when when they leave but we are educated by the school we care about the school we care about the kids these are kids that have struggled elsewhere and they need this so i hope that we can be patient work together and it sounds like that there are significant concerns that need to be addressed but it sounds like that they have a plan to address them um and i just wanted to give voice to the neighbors that are carol parents and excited about this plan so thank you for all that you're thank you can you state your last name and your address again mcconaughey 397 conger davida lowenstein 29 long meadow road i've lived three houses from the carroll school property for almost 50 years and i've seen an evolution of the cat property as well as the development of apple tree lane but that's not what i want to talk about i want to talk about the traffic study which traffic studies that have been done and are being done now i'm wondering about their validity in the future specifically uh traffic traffic going north on old sudbury road intersecting 117. old sudbury road ends then and all traffic must turn right or left as now traffic tends to back up during um evening rush hour on old sudbury road also as of now an island is being built on 117 at that site that will definitely slow traffic the same has happened on lincoln road and i am very aware of the fact that traffic turning is slowed down considerably i would think that that would also slow down and add much more congestion on old sudbury road a traffic study now that doesn't incorporate that is not going to be valid so i'm hoping that after that is completed and i think it's going to be completed relatively soon the traffic study takes that into consideration i also have one other question and that is regarding water my understanding is that the carroll school will use lincoln water but um carroll school is located in wayland now in lincoln in the summer there's often tremendous water restrictions will those be applicable to the school because the school is in wayland or will they be will wayland water restrictions be applicable just a question respond to that when they come again to speak to us and i would ask for the traffic study even though the police chief said that they were going to uh look at it that you speak with them and see if perhaps you may need to do more traffic study um and know about the new um islands that are going in normally when traffic study is done they know uh what new developments are going to take place over the future five years and that's included in the study and you want to make sure that these other new uh islands or whatever constraints at the end of the roads are taken into account is there anything else other than mr no mr donk thank you i was just taking some notes and i was sort of thinking about the next steps in process and what i've heard tonight the biggest takeaway i think is that the existing traffic study that was done by the applicant plus o'neill is the engineering firm that that has some deficiencies and i think what the board should ask for is is a supplement from bussen o'neill from the applicant that addresses based upon my notes um peak afternoon being adjusted to the school's peak afternoon uh the applicant should do the additional data collecting it shouldn't fall on the wayland or lincoln police departments to do this this is simple getting the data collected is four hundred dollars you hire a data collection firm they put cameras on a telephone pole and they collect data that that the school should do that um expanded scope of study in the town of lincoln uh revised trip generation statistics so we know exactly what the trip generation is for the entire school um it was referenced to uh swap path analysis i think your civil engineer mentioned that i didn't actually see that in the plan so that hasn't been done or could it sleep to it it is but is there is there an issue with it yeah so it sounds like that needs to be addressed by the applicant and then finally you know the biggest takeaway that i had from the traffic study was that this project is going to cause increases in delays in queuing and that's evidence in their their own analysis bussen o'neill concluded and and we have these grades for intersections a b c d e f but that's not that that's really not a good way of looking at it what you what we really should be looking at are the actual numbers assigned to these intersections in uh build conditions and no build conditions and the build condition in 2032 i think it was this project is going to cause significant increases in delays at at various intersections in the neighborhood as well as queuing of cars typically what happens in these situations the applicant's engineer will propose mitigation and i don't know what that looks like we're not traffic engineers but they they should be answering and saying board we know there's a problem that we're going to create a lot of more traffic this is how we propose dealing with it whether it's something that they do on their own property or there's maybe improvements that they can propose that can be done on public streets so the bottom line is madam chair i think that the applicant needs to come back to you with a revised traffic study um there should be an opportunity for a peer review of that study for us to look at it and provide comments um and i i appreciate the comments that were made about that actually the last speaker said well this is going to take some time you know we should be patient but at the same time you made a good point that we only have 60 days and currently i think we have until december 15th issue a decision so yes be great to be patient but at the same time we really need this information coming from the applicant in a more expedited basis so my suggestion would be that the applicant provide by a certain date the revised traffic study provide the answers to the questions that have been posed by by austin by my clients and by other town boards and basically pick a date maybe it's two weeks from now so that we all have time to review it and then i think your next hearing is november 19th maybe so that we have time at that meeting to then have a big discussion about all these issues and hopefully get to a point where we're narrowing the issues that's what we intend to be right thank you i want to ask the school as as to traffic study can we do a little bit more and look at the comments that have been made tonight and make sure that what is presented in the traffic study includes not just an increase from today's uh uh milestone but uh everything since what what the increases have been yes we we can do that um do you think that we're still okay for the 19th i think we'd like to be heard on the 19th i don't think we have time to initiate new traffic study and get to a completed report um but there's certainly a lot of other questions i think you'd like to answer yeah madam chair can i just make some clarification about the um that mr hummel was talking about the i didn't see the email that came in from the police chiefs but chris and i met that with both um chief wentworth and um chief berman earlier this week and just to describe what they want to do in addition to the traffic study request that i just heard what they were planning on doing and forget about the language that they use but it's not a real traffic studies it is still studying right surely sure but i just wanted to know what they had said to us and what's in there i did know that because that was what was in the report um but i think it's certainly up to you but it would be more beneficial for you to do the real report because these people are doing i understand that we will do that what i'm saying is that that is in addition to to what we'll do okay that's right i just wanted to be and and it's fine because they might be able to gather data even faster yes they described to us a seven-day process and they're very happy to work together to get that information that's why i think we need to get a real traffic i agree um so uh currently we we're thinking i can um um i believe it's the 19th right yes yes thank you and um i was looking to
all of you i know i know we're trying to wrap up i have said one comment um last question uh david raftery six apple tree lane um as um dan hill mentioned this to start but i'm not sure we captured it one of the things i don't think we've seen is a complete construction management plan um you know but there's lots of things to talk about we're all valid appreciate the collaboration by all participants but i think one of the things we would like to see sooner rather later is a construction manager we're planning to understand uh what some of these mitigation opportunities are and what the impact could be on the neighborhood so that passed carol school to give us a phasing program of when they plan to do what and over how long a period of time so we have a handle on that our approvals last for two years you have to start significant construction within a two-year period before the plan lapses and you have to start over again so our next uh meeting for the carol school i think um we discussed with the school november the 19th uh and i would suggest 7 45 pm i'm sure we do have subdivision and then we'd ask that again at 7 10 right that's right at 7 10 and then i think that should be pretty simple but i think 7 45 is probably fair enough okay thank you so um and i have a motion and more one second though um and that meeting will be in the uh in the community center and the top of the uh the series the next meeting on the 19th is going to be in new community center senior center in the town uh town uh center whatever that's what yeah uh in andrew avenue um the notice i think you're on the agenda so when i have a motion to continue this hearing i'm sure november the 19th at 745 to continue this hearing to november 19th and 725 the new community center building Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No. You'll have recess. Yeah. I'm going to pause. I think it's just a microphone. Just one second. What? It's good for you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I gave Daniel on my PCT report and the published team's letters. And I read some. So, and, and, but also sounds like some of the last people are saying, having done a lot of I have done international Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll ask the Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. extend the time by which they have to submit as built plans and the other one is that have to file this at the Registry of Deeds with margin of references. References to the actual plan sheets and a few date changes and if you look at it and you can see that the basic guts are there. I'm going to ask you authorize me to get into final shape with Robert and authorize me to sign and be happy to go in. So authorized? Yeah, second. We need a motion. We've authorized the chair to finalize the amended decision on the community center phase one site plan amendment. And it was seconded by Jesse Newberry. And so all in favor, raise your hand. That's five zero. Thank you. And I'm trying to do this and give to Robert for tomorrow. Yeah. All right. Great. Hopefully it's the last time we've done this. Because we're here to hang it around. And I know I've been bugging them for a while. So eventually there's no way we're running out of time. We've been tracking it for like six months. Is that it? I think that's, I don't have any updates on other, any more updates on my item. Okay. So Larry, what's going on in the conservation and the draft regulations? Well, I've asked Linda directly. She, I followed up with her even after I said forward a note that she said the engineer is still working on it. I've requested a timeframe when we thought we'd get it. And I've not heard back from it. How long have they been working on it? Well, they said in their meeting notes they were going to be on it. On the 29th of the night. Right. And then, yeah, it's not on the agenda. So I asked Linda when it would be. Well, I wouldn't look at the stars, I guess. How long have they been working on it? Oh, fuck. I mean, you will have a full, heavy hair. But I still look at me in my pants back. Okay. I was just concerned that they were doing something and we didn't. Yeah, no. I think that was, so I will follow up with her and the board again to get in time for because I'd like to look at it. Yes. And what their plan was because they indicated they were going to look out. Exactly. Yeah. The other thing is that we need from her, and I know, including the two of you, if you've been able to get from her what it is that we have to do for this town meeting to satisfy the FEMA people. I haven't. I haven't. You have what we have to do? I have. Yeah. We have to change a lot. So I have to sit down and think through it. We have to change a lot? Yeah. Yeah. I have an email. I'll send it to you. I saw what he said, and I saw what the guys wrote, and it doesn't fit into our current Sony. Yeah. We have to change something. But the time is getting short now. We are now going to be November, and we have two big decisions coming up. Plus other stuff. We have the ANR plan for the Carroll School. Where is that now? Do we have an application, and should we be approving that now? We approved it right now. Oh, we did approve that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody here signed? Everybody said Larry. But that was okay. Yeah. I think you came late, so I said when somebody signed. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else anybody can think of? Is there anything else? Yeah. Did you want to clarify to address the CPC? Oh. There wasn't? Well, there wasn't an issue as much as an opportunity for the CPC to hear from POS what projects we'd like to see addressed. I've found a project I'm thinking of once from my, from my housing account on the affordable housing account button. Hotel Larry. The two things, the two things I'd be asking for is one is most likely for funding for the regional housing service office. And what's interesting is a lot of town will take. So for the CPC community presentation, you know, you have to appropriate 10% of your money to work. It's our resources, marine housing, and open space every year. Recreation now is under open space. But a lot of towns like Wayland, they will automatically take all the 10% of money and give it to the housing trust. Right, that's right. Which is what I learned the first time I applied for it because I wanted to apply for it directly to say I get the money in a downtown meeting instead of going to the housing trust and having access to them permission. And walking around trying to... It can come from the general fund. They have a general CPC. True, true. CPC. And they also have an administrative CPC. There's a lot of things that... It can come, you don't really care where it comes from. Well, you know, going to the housing trust and just create an extra step. It was not needed. Why? You can just fund it through... You can give X... You can give 10% of the money to the housing trust. Mine is out. Whatever the money... Right. Then nothing. Then nothing. Trading... Trading... Tradition is very difficult. And we're going on slowly. Right. And how are they going to take money away from the trust? So what's the problem with whether it comes from administrative money or it comes from... It's not the issue. It just... It's crazy. It created an extra step that wasn't... It's not quite needed. Well... Yeah. So the request is to fund regional service... Housing service for two years. And the request would be $40,000. Also... Also the housing... We are almost out of our housing production plan. That was approved in 2022. And so I'm trying to get the number for that. How much that would cost. So that... If the town decides they want to do a housing production plan... That we have one... You know... Completely by 2027. How do you do... How often do you have to do that? It would be five years. It would be five years. Okay. We don't have... We don't have... We don't need one quite yet. 2027. Right. So that would be like... But the money... We wouldn't get the money into... Into 2026. Go ahead. So... I'm trying to get the number... I don't want to... I need to... Quickly discuss... The housing partnership... And the trust about that... I think... I'd like to go forward... If you don't... We just... We don't have to do one. Whatever... Just make sure that... Whatever it is... Let's Larry know... He sends him the memo... As well as... What you send... To the main CDC... Make sure you copy him... Yeah... It's... I got the sense that... Housing... We're... Housing... And... Recreation... Are... Well... Represented... In... No... CBC... Well... You have to... You have to... Have to learn from... Recreation... Based on Charter... Recreation... No... I know that... They're... They're speaking up... Yes... One of the other issues... They have is... I know... Susan has... Really mentioned them... To me... You know... Because... We should have... A town should fund that... It shouldn't be the CPC... The town should be funding someone... To do housing... Like... Well... That's not how it works... In this town... Because it's... Cheaper for us... To hire a consultant... Because we're not... We're paying less benefits... We're not paying retirement... All of that... You know... As a full-time person... And so... This is kind of the caveat... And I took that money... And I sent it to town... And it got... Stricted by budget... I tried to... Fund it in different ways... But... That CPC... Is... Is the way that... Most towns... Fund the regional housing service office... Um... Within the 10 communities... The 10 communities... That are part of it... Um... Weston... Lincoln... So... Can you just help me... Sure... The regional housing service office... All right... So... Is a... Representative... From... Wayland... To... The... State... Housing... Or... The region... It's... It's... It's... Under a definite kind of agreement... It's a... Under an agreement that... All the towns... It's an inter-municipal agreement... With multiple towns... Participating... And they tell us what our share is... Every year... Do we... And... This is... The... So... We give the... Regional... Housing... Service... Money... They give us... Money... No... They give us service... They give us service... And help manage... The... Affordable housing... That we have... There's a lot of things... That... That I... I just don't have the... Knowledge... And experience to do... Like... Let's say... There's a resale process... There's a lot of things... That are technical... That... I don't have the knowledge... I don't have the experience... And also... I don't have the time... To do that... That's a... It's... You know... Full-time... Part-time job... We don't have a housing partner... Yeah... We don't have... We don't have... A housing partner... And... We're... Allocated... A certain amount... It's not just... 2020... It's based on... I think... Population... And I don't know... What else... In general... How much... How much time... You think you want... It is... Not related... But... So... I'll bring it up... It was at the... Sherman Bridge... And there was a... Wayland... Out there... And... I was thinking... He said... Wayland... What can you do... So... I said... What can you do... In Wayland... Like... In Sudbury... When you're from Wayland... He explained that... Every Middlesex... Uh... Town... Has a... Agreement... To... Be able to pursue... Uh... Criminals... Or... Across... Town lines... Yes... Wow... I mean... It makes... It makes... Kind of sense... Let's say... The... Car dealership... It's... So let's see... The subway... If you see... Crying around... The subway... What do you do... It's like... Whoops... This is not my car... Yes... It makes sense... But... We all... We're little towns... It makes sense... It makes sense... It makes sense... It makes sense... It makes sense... It makes sense... It makes sense... But... Who pays for that... That's a detail... Right? Does Wayland pay for that? Well... It's... The... So... They... Put up the building... We... Put up the cop... And... Uh... They had... Uh... You know... Desserts... Donuts... And... Cookies... Who pays for that? Sudbury? No... I think... The... DPW... Maybe... Sudbury... I don't know... They were trying to make everybody feel good... Yeah... Exactly... Take this... Shut up... Um... For CPC... I have a... Request... Um... I would appreciate it... If... If you agree... Sorry... If the board agrees... That... Um... Monies for things... That are for private... Enterprise... Or... Private... Individuals... Uh... Not exceed... Either... $25,000... Or... $35,000... And that... We reserve... The funds... In the CPC... For... Projects... Because... It's our tax dollars... And I don't... Understand... Why... We give it... We're private... Can you... Give an... Example? Yeah... Um... The folks... Um... Is that private... Or is that... That's private... Yeah... It's not a... We also... Uh... I mean... I'm a fan... The Historical Society... Um... I was a vice president... For a while... Um... I don't think... We want to give... Our... The Historical Society... Because that's... Well... But they... If... For example... They... Preserve... The graves... At the... Cemetery... And... That's done... Through the... That's done... Through the... Historical... Oh... Something else... That you want to check in... I don't... I have absolutely... No clue... Because I... I'm not staffed at CBC... But I have experience in other towns... Is sometimes when we get to... A situation where it's like... Kind of... Ify... Like what you're saying... We'll have town council... Just give us a quick read of... I know... We've been told that we can do it... That we can do it... Yeah... Oh... You absolutely can... But like... It's... It's under... It's under the CBC to figure out... Based on how much money you have... It's a whole game... I wish we had one... I wish we had a... I wish we had a staff member... To help the CBC... That would've been helpful... Because a lot of towns have a... A CBC... Staff member that actually... Helps and guides and... Food... The process... We don't... We don't have that... Yeah... I don't think we've had trouble... Just starting with the process... It's just... What we spend it on... The other thing was... Several years ago... They wanted to give somebody... Uh... Incituate... On Main Street... Money to... Reside his building... But we never did it... We took the money back... Last year... I think it was... Or the year after... I don't know why... We would pay for a private party... To recite their building... Well... It was Becky's proposal... I know that... Still... I mean... No matter whose proposal... It is... It's our tax dollars... And I think it should be spent... On regular things... We've got plenty of things... To spend it on... Well... There needs to be a... Recreational... Historical... Or... Was that... Your story... No... It doesn't... That's for your... Free funds... Then there's... The administrative fund... And then there's... The overall... General fund... That they have... And... Oh... Yeah... I don't remember... Which one... Yeah... I don't know... Which one is coming out... Again... I don't want to... For me... I don't know... Given... Yeah... But... I think there should be... A dollar limit... And it shouldn't be... I... I love... That's a model... And even the Polish... For example... I think you got... Four hundred thousand dollars... Last year... That's not a... That's a private... Enterprise... And... I just... You know... Again... The tax dollars... And just because... The money is... It doesn't mean... That it's... Yeah... You can see... For someone else... It's increasing... Our taxes more... Because we have to use it... For something... Yeah... Yeah... It's certainly an argument... That for the pool... The people who use... The bullshit thing... Yeah... So... So... Can the... Well... I went to one race... There... Well... Anybody can use it... As a private party... And you have to pay... To use it... And the school pays... To use it... For the high school... But you pay... To use it... To use it... Because I was the president... They did go through... The restrictions... That... They can't pay... For... They were going after... Locker rooms... Right... And we were eating... They said... No... We can't pay for that... Because it's... Right... So... What you're saying... Is essentially... Scrap the whole thing... If it comes from... A private organization... That you don't... That you don't... Go above... And that it's not... A huge limit... Which is why... I was... 25,000... Or... 45,000... But... Not... 400,000... And then... If it's... Let me... Once I submit... The applications... You can figure out... What the meaning is... And then it's easy to meet... Where... The applicant will present... For the neighbors... And then the letters... We'll... Schedule... A basic schedule... Of all of that... I mean... So... With the... Just following up... With the... That was... My idea... I want to make sure... That everybody else... Either agrees with it... Or doesn't agree... We don't need the vote... On... I think... On these... Even your stupid idea... I... No... Thank you... I... She is worse... It would... Make me feel better... If I knew... That I wasn't... The only person... Who taught it... I... I... I... I'd be interested... To hear what... The board said... Yeah... Right... That's why... Right... Exactly... So... Is that... Yeah... Okay... How do you think... I think it's... I think... It's... I think... It's... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... I... No, but that's what you're talking about. Whether we're comfortable with suggestion to the CPC that there be a dollar limit for entities that are not part of the town's government. At a minimum, I'll get feedback on what, you know, I'm sure they've clearly been down this road and decided otherwise for Greece. Right. And again, it's not, don't give it. It's just about the cap. I wonder if they hit the ball. It was, they're all were considerable sums of money. Oh, okay. Can we have a cap and then a procedure for exceeding the cap? Like, it comes before the planning board, or it comes before somebody else? Well, it all comes before the town. In the town, we're like, oh, yeah, we have this money. Yeah, let's show you. And then you get a hundred interested people and go. Yeah, so then, yes, I'm in pain with it. I just, I don't know whether there could be flexibility or no flexibility. So I guess not really. Again, asking about it. Just a personal, I think the facade and the contingency was, I think what you're doing is to try to promote the business reasons, you know, to clean it up, all that people will come. But I think there was, but I think there was, from the angle of preservation, of historic preservation within the town. And they just wanted to support that. I don't think it's too much amount of money, but it certainly wasn't worth $2,000 yet. Is that an historic building, or was it for art's sake? Well, it's not a historic building, but it's a building that's been there quite a while. It was, and when I can't think of it, it used to be a playhouse, it's been converted. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. Yeah. It's not that I don't think that we should, well, I don't know, get treated with some money. I just think we should probably be limited when it's a private. Yes, and it's a private, and it seems reasonable.
Okay. Okay.
Unrelated to anything, is there something going on with Mahoney's, like, the old... It's an appeal. It's what? It's an appeal in the Conservation Commission. Where was it an appeal? Was it being with the Holy Court, or are they at the... Yeah.
I thought the article in the way outposts that they were in court, but that's not always... Yeah, I don't know. Can't, can't... But it's, it's hung up for now. And then the building that, the company that's gonna take over the whole... Yes. They just closed, they just closed, they just closed, they just closed the property. Yeah. In the name of the company? Terrain is the one that's going to be rented in. Yeah. Grossman, development, and affirming interest one is buying the property, and then they're going to lease it to Terrain. So that's... It's... They submitted the building, so it's moving forward. So, would they come to the planning board? Nothing triggers... No. They only have to go to the zoning board. Zoning board, and they come back to the zoning board for the signage. They won't change the building right now. Right, right. Which is remarkable. And Urban Outfitters' name is connected to that. Yeah, they own Urban Outfitters and Propology Terrain, the same thing that they own. I was thinking if Urban Outfitters were going to go in there. It is, it's just that they're opening a Terrain store. It's like a... I don't know. They have three different stores. So it's going to be within Terrain? No, Terrain is... Terrain owns... So Urban Outfitters is a company that owns all three stores. Some stores are Urban Outfitters. Some stores are Anthropology. Some are Terrain. This will be a Terrain store. Which is what? Will Sue Womens come? No, it's outdoor... Farmers' chair? It's outdoor furniture and home decor, and then a restaurant. Yeah. And an event space. I wonder if it is. Oh, hiking clocks, huh? No, sorry. Gardening clocks. I wonder if you're not hiking clocks.
It's mostly the money thing. Money in your cafe. So, that would be nice. Yeah, well... And, uh, Mike's, uh... Shopping. Mike's is going to... I don't know. Where do you have Mike's? Where do you have? We have Mike's, uh... Jersey Mike's, sorry. Jersey Mike's. No, it's Jimmy, John, and Duncan Owens. We're the one in the front. So I have two separate places. Do you have any idea when they're... Oh, gosh, no. Well, that's in the... I don't know. The EO Big Amendment. Well, they finally ripped up the safe deposit boxes, like, two weeks ago. Oh, that's two weeks ago. It was the safe deposit boxes. Oh, right. So, they're very close. I don't know now, so I don't know. Mike, we're by Waylon Variety for socks. Like, they love those socks. Which one? Waylon Variety? Waylon Variety. Yeah. He makes a... Those are good. So I, I finally participated. I'm like, oh, wow. How bad did you do? Well, I did for meetings like that and socks there. They're very good. Very good. Should be doing this on the phone. Yeah. I don't know. If you do anything else, but anybody wants to talk with us now. I'm sorry. It was so nice having Nick with us today. I don't know who he didn't become. He was on. He was on. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. He was on. He was on. I have some good instruction. It's good. I am participating in the CHAPA veterans meeting tomorrow. I don't know. I don't know. So my cousin, who knows Eric Schultzman, also knows Lily Linky or Linky. And so she's sort of like, oh, you should participate in this meeting. So I figured I could listen at the same time. Yes, I don't know. I forget which community you're on housing partnership. Yes, housing partnership. Would you want to go to the meetings? They're always like, on nights where we're here. Can you talk to them about it? Can you ask them to my favorite shift nights?
Does Mary have to mention something?
We've seen it the same thing. Wednesday night, same time. It sure does? Sleeping soon? Yeah. they don't but i was only able to attend one meeting i missed one i did yeah they you know in the email chain it just got lost like i'm on the planning board yeah to be fair we switched from tuesday to wednesday we did we did confuse them yeah yeah really good choice yeah okay i moved to adjourn in 30 seconds all in favor hi hi thank you