September 23, 2026 – Capital Improvement Planning Committee – Video & Transcript
September 23, 2026 - Capital Improvement Planning Committee
We'll call our meeting to order at 6.30, Capital Improvement Planning Committee, September 23, 2026, 6.30. We are in the select board room, right?
I will review the agenda. At 6.35, we'll have public comment and member's response. At 6.40, if voted on, we'll enter into executive session pursuant to Mass General Laws Chapter 30, Section 21A4, to discuss the deployment of security devices and strategies with respect, thereto, in connection with cybersecurity compliance and the protection of the town's information technology infrastructure. 7.10, return to open session, if we do go into executive session. 7.12, review and discuss departmental capital requests submitted this year, including outstanding capital projects. 7.55, discuss the revised draft of the CIPC report to time manager. 8.20, review and vote to approve minutes of September 16. 8.25, setting times for next meetings. 8.30, adjourn. 8.30, adjourn. 9.70, adjourn. 8.60, adjourn. executive session i'll give a brief summary and uh liz and brian you can help me out on this one ip nick has been asked for an additional 700 000 um in the i.t budget um and as i understand it um uh to make room for that in in part um nick faya has agreed to mike i'm sorry mike faye has agreed to uh defer the 700 000 in roof repairs um for this building uh to make room for for that additional request um i believe that the town manager is in favor of or is requesting or supporting the request um so i i nick we can't we can't have you uh go into any any particular detail but so far have i summarized things accurately right so i guess the first question i want to raise is given that what's on the table now do we feel that we need additional information from nick that we need to go into executive session or um are we comfortable with the request as is so that we do not need to go into executive session and liz you were here and um i know you had some thoughts saying the 700k is the first ask for a net 1.9 million and i guess the question was and this is where i don't know what we can can't say here but is the 1.9 sufficient or is that expected to grow and this just gets back to understanding with cyber security sometimes the initial rom estimate can grow to a multitude or a factor above and beyond what was previously thought sufficient so again it's just is the 1.9 good it's gonna it's gonna increase yeah and i've written up a document to kind of talk through why um where we're at the projects and why we are at risk and what remediation needs to be done yeah i'm uncomfortable continuing to discuss why don't we stay at a high level so uh that's what liz said last week at our meeting uh what i said last week at our meeting um was that i didn't feel i needed to get into that level of detail uh said differently i don't feel i have a need to know and i think given the um it's just my opinion given the um the sensitivity of talking about vulnerabilities um i think there should be a very tight circle of people that need to know that information one being the town manager if there's any committee in town that should need to know would be the select board um and on this committee while i would normally be right there saying you know if somebody's asking for 1.8 million dollars over five years i'd really like to know a bit more as to why that's justified etc but um in this one instance i just don't you know i'd rather not know i i take the fact that nick spoke with the town manager town manager felt strongly enough about it that he talked to mike about deferring at least the fiscal 28 component uh and in this instance i i would place my reliance on the town manager's judgment of whatever nick told him uh either leading up to the revised request or prior um so you know what i likely would do if a majority of the committee wants to know you know what's the justification which is this memo etc um you know i think the the exception for open meeting law going to executive session for the this type of security discussion is appropriate uh and i have no issue uh if this committee wanted to do that but i would likely vote no um to go into executive session i would likely sit out of the meeting because i just don't want to i don't want to burden myself with that knowledge and i'm not a lawyer but one of the things that concerns me is that when you go into executive session you need to keep minutes of that meeting and the minutes uh need to be sufficiently detailed uh such that when and if they were ever made public um somebody would know what discussion was in that meeting and the town has unfortunately bad experience of not having kept sufficiently detailed executive session minutes so i worry about um having having not kept sufficiently in the past the town had done an executive session a few times and not kept particularly good detailed minutes and had um open meeting law violations upheld um so what concerns me about that is that while minutes of this type of discussion for this type of issue quite likely could remain non-public for a pretty long time um because it's not likely it's unlike say a personnel issue that sort of is ongoing and then it eventually comes to the head and is done and you can release those minutes in this case what i worry about is if something happens on the id front uh and it results in say a data breach and we go i don't know if we're covered by insurance for cyber security issues but if we are insurance companies are always looking for ways to get out from having to pay up or if you know personal identifying information gets out and somebody or one or more people in the public decide to sue the town um i believe that these minutes of this discussion should we go into executive session should you go into executive session would likely be discoverable um and that may or may not be helpful to the town's case um uh and and i don't want to get subpoenaed either myself so for all those reasons um i don't want to suggest that the rest of you might not want or feel somehow this committee is um obligated to get to the bottom of this particular request sufficiently to say yay or nay and including it i'm comfortable knowing where this request came from that it's gone through the town manager and i think we can talk about it without going to executive session we just can't get into specifics about vulnerabilities etc etc or even possibly specific hardware software whatever type of you know security protocols um that's all got to be done you know inside executive session so i think we just have would have to be just thoughtful of that careful about that if we wanted to you know talk at a high level about you know the dollar so that's my steel i'm sticking to it i mean can you talk about dollar amounts without or is that considered sensitive we can talk about the budget the budget you can't get in you can't get into you're not going to be able to get into what the dollars are paying for specifically right because then that starts to go down the road of what we have this hole we buy this we need to hire this firm to plug that hole sure i mean i know we the 1.9 was public and i know you said it's growing and that isn't changing right you can still talk about the total dollar amount i i should say i i see the town manager is on i don't know if he has any any thoughts or comments on what we can or cannot talk about but or whether he's without going into executive without going into executive session yeah maybe maybe before you do that maybe just given and i don't know if you two watched the meeting from last week or i read the minutes or you just heard all the back and forth you're worried if you can just express whether you feel a need to get deeper into the detail if you don't then so i i don't need to get deeper into the detail as long as my concern is plain and simple is making sure we've got as good a number in the plan for what's needed right as we possibly can i don't need to get it down into the detail quite frankly i it's not that i'm afraid of knowing it's that um i'm not going to understand that to the level that would be necessary anyway so i don't necessarily need executive session the other thing i would say from an executive session standpoint um outside of being subpoenaed or those those minutes being public uh intentionally is um those minutes being public unintentionally so someone has to write those minutes right and that still has its own i would prefer that that not be in print on anyone's computer um so yeah i mean that's that's me yeah i mean executive session minutes and i've kept them myself and and i was on a search committee and so that stayed you know um non-public until the process was over so you know there's there's ways you have to handle the minutes in terms of yes that they're on computers and getting circulated and you mark them confidential but yeah if it's on your computer um you know who knows what might happen to it if you don't want medical if it's if there's a vulnerability and we're using yeah no absolutely like that's all connected so i would prefer not to i don't need to know what i need to know is the same thing that we said to you nick when we sent you back to go right look at it is have idea have what you need right such that it's not a question of well hey i needed this but i didn't ask for it or hey i needed this but there wasn't any budget for it right that's that's all i'm concerned with and so if the cost and i want to just clarify cost going up meaning beyond what you already have in the plan for that five-year period yes and and the reason we don't know that is because we haven't fully flushed it yet or because we haven't built in escalators just give me a sense of sure and when when would we know that like for next year's plan um it is dependent on the the work we're currently doing okay it's an iterative process so i got it i got it so you it's discovery followed by um implementation of discovery so after a year so you're comfortable enough with fiscal 28 to ask it's the following four years that are kind of placeholders yeah i i i think amount but yeah and i understand um i understand your um what you're talking about as far as getting into details um the the purpose of my coming tonight was to paint a picture okay of our uh environment to help you understand why i'm requesting this money and why i continue to grow that would have to be an example yeah i'm not sure we want to go there yeah no i know we can't go unless unless we vote to go in i don't can't go to an open session um you know i personally draw an inference from the fact that nick showed up the first time with a much different and much smaller request and obviously for those that attended town meeting or watched it you heard nick uh go up to the edge of some of this discussion and talk about when asked that on how many floor how much would you need to deal with the issues you had and my recollection is you said a million and a half something uh in the front of you know 200 people um you don't ask for that kind of money if everything's perfectly fine i guess is my view as to what's not exactly perfectly fine um you know having worked you know been responsible for it in a couple of my last jobs not an it expert i have no doubt i would understand what nick was talking about but the mere fact that he's now asking for that after we send him back to rethink it and he's talked to the town manager and there's implicit support from the town manager but to your point kelly and was it may be that maybe fiscal 28 numbers a good number but absent to us saying okay nick if 300 a year for the next four years after that isn't good enough you know do we want to stick in a bigger number now or is it just you come back in a year and if this is an iterative process maybe a year from now nick has a different view on yeah there's a lot more maybe we don't need this much because i don't want to make up and make up a number right at this point i think i i'm uncomfortable with the answer i've got some work to do and then we'll have a better number um hopefully that's in time for you know whether that's before town meeting or that's next um cycle yeah i mean comfortable with yeah certainly nick can and i assume will continue to be talking directly with the town manager his boss and town manager can ask put in you know his his recommended capital budget to the finance committee whatever he thinks he needs is appropriate the capital plan so for our purposes if this is the information we have and people are not uncomfortable including the dollars which we've fit in last week at least we can talk about that in open session as to how the other two of you feel about how we fit it in but uh but if the town manager's budget all of a sudden comes in with a higher number i assume the town manager will have to have the same the same conversation with the finance committee i don't envision as a finance committee member uh providing my fellow finance committee members to go into executive session but they're going to be in the same position they're going to be receiving a report from us they're going to be receiving a document from town manager all of it's going to have some pretty interesting numbers related to it there may be several members on the fans to me that want to know and i'll probably have the same comment to them at that time as to where i'm coming from again even as a fans can be member i don't think i need to know the details um so one follow-up question so have you already revised the 1.9 or do you just know that it's changing in the future i know that that is not a that's a current number okay based on oh actually i have this new number for you that you know broken out by a fiscal year yeah i don't um there are a couple of factors here one is um i have funds to address things in 27 and 28 from a capital perspective that is going to put in a capital plant the funds that you've submitted to us or you have other funds you know the capital funds that i've submitted here yeah um i there are two factors here um from an i.t perspective the first one is needs it's a constantly changing environment we have lots of challenges um and those challenges are some of them are new some of them are not new um and in addition to that uh costs for it equipment is skyrocketing right especially with uh iran war um you know the device that i increased the costs on i initially had used a quote that i had from 2025 and put an increase in there a 10 15 increase i didn't cut it it was 127 and uh 247 or you know i don't remember the exact numbers but the increase was astronomical so um you know i i'd like to sit here and say this is a firm number but i can't do that no and i understand and this is where we're not unique this is happening across the board which is why i was like do we think that the 1.9 is good is it sufficient or so i think it's the best we have today is what it sounds like we know it's going to change in the future but today we just know that's i guess something to look forward to next year yeah yeah get to have any conversation again you're going to be so excited the thing i would be interested in would be um and i'm not saying you haven't done this because you're still you're a year at the time year and um you know that that because it is so constantly changing for good and bad right um the question i always ask my it directors is you know you know is this the most cost effective way and is this going to last for a year we're going to have to redo everything a year from now and i just want to make sure that while it's feeling like what you've now asked for is at least allowing you to target and i think we asked that the first time we met with nick you know when you come back at least have done your work so that you can in your own mind prioritize what's the most important however important is to find in my own mind i know what i think i would define as most important that you can take care of that you know sooner than later type of thing but i'd like to know that you know you're constantly looking for you know cheaper ways to do the same thing um cloud solutions um you know i think you mentioned there's uh state grants from time to time and can help communities you know address some of this stuff it's going to be mine right it's making sure that we've absolutely extracted any and all funds available to to do it outside of but it's it's really and it's not i mean the issue the issue is not that these issues that need to be dealt with haven't existed for some period of time it's just that whatever the reason they haven't been brought forward from a financial perspective and that is kind of the domain of this committee as one gets into longer term planning which came up as a subject in the select board discussion uh on monday night this committee you know really this is a prime example of over a longer period of time what what what can one expect in i.t um yeah infrastructure you know to need in a community like whalen and the other thing i would say because this came up from one public comment we got like the first time we met with nick um um i think we we referenced it infrastructure and and the public comment was you know we also need to concern about other infrastructure like the water infrastructure because there have been a number of the hacks into localized water systems around the country uh with not you know great great great uh anticipation of that and and so i don't know beyond the it infrastructure and water if you've looked at anything else in town that somehow has a you know a technological potential technological um vulnerability into it but i think again that would all of that seems to me to be part of a longer term plan and and you know right now we're just trying to put something on a piece of paper that gets it on everybody's radar screen this is going to get more airtime at town meeting i think based on last year's conversation and these numbers are going to jump out of people um and and can i jump in at some point yeah and i just i think i think i think i think the select board you know need to elevate this to their level i know carol's joined us um support needs to elevate if we're talking about these type of dollars that could go up and there are issues that we don't want to get into the details that's what we decide i would think the select board's got to be having that same conversation because um at some point some board or committee that you know in town needs to understand what what this is or wait for bad things to happen right anyway right back to you michael so a couple of points here i i know you had asked i don't disagree with uh brian o'herley he's uh analysis i mean the the main reason nick and i thought about the executive session is we wanted to convey that this is something we didn't want to be discussing for obvious reasons and i i think you're aware of that and and i'm glad you appreciate that um you know i i hired nick because he was outstanding at what he did he came from the state um and i have a technology background that's what i did before i i transitioned into municipal government um and i can tell you that we have engaged quite a lot of third parties to evaluate and assess what we're doing we've involved the commonwealth's executive office of technologies uh services and in security um the and all you have to do is turn on the tv to look at the the pace at which technology and ai is growing you see there's been several other uh municipalities in the commonwealth in the last month that have had issues and what we're trying to do is stay out ahead of this and i know you would uh at least uh brad carver uh the chair had asked me you know to um you know kind of prioritize what we want to do so i did have a meeting with nick and uh michael separately and talk to him about our priorities and what we feel we should uh where we should direct the dollars and michael faye agreed that we should direct them towards our it infrastructure at this point and as nick was saying you know the other thing driving this is these data centers everybody's has a quest to get chips and servers and that's driving up a lot of the costs because i meet with nick weekly and we talk about this and probably every other day i go up there for something else we have a lot of educated citizens here who have volunteered a lot of thoughts on what we're doing i to the point you would uh raised i talk to don mallette over at dpw who runs the water regularly about these things you know there's lots of stories we've seen them on 60 minutes so we're trying to be proactive here and as i said nick uh was in charge of a lot of uh i.t infrastructure for the state and i've his explanations have satisfied me that we need to be directing more dollars than we have in the past to ensure that we are uh prepared and can ward off you know everything we can do and that includes not just i just want to assure you we are constantly running you know um just training for our folks and doing things to make sure people understand you know basic things like phishing scams and all these other things there's so much more that we're doing internally to to try and protect our protected information of not only our employees our citizens um and to uh prevent any type of unwanted third party from trying to get onto our system so uh that that was how this was all born about and um as i said i meet regularly with nick and mike fay about a lot of the things going on and we just felt that we had to um given what's going on these days across the the state the country the globe we had to make some significant investments to stay ahead of the curve i hope nick that captures what you think we've been talking about but uh we do meet on a regular basis about these things yeah uh john do you have any thoughts comments no i mean yes but there's nothing that will add anything of value at this point so i mean i think right in our report it's just going to be we're essentially taking this for what it is right and just pushing the value forward based on the assessment of town office right i mean that's yeah yeah so i guess i guess the the the first question is do we go into executive session do we need to vote yeah i think i think well it's on the agenda so i think we probably should vote whether we do or do not go into executive you don't need to do that you don't need to you don't know we're going if no one makes a motion you're the only one who can make the motion is to go into executive session okay all right well if the sense is and i agree with everybody else i don't i don't think we need to so if that's the case then we will not go into executive session i think as long as we're clear in our report that you know we're not actually evaluating the details we're i think i'm comfortable with it and just i'm going to say we know this is going to continue to grow fast yeah yeah i mean a lot of all other statements i'm just saying like i think we just need to be clear that we're not we're not going to be privy to the details it's pushed upwards and it just gets back to if you have you know set budgets per year it's trying to make sure you're managing to that total budget so if you have some a variable that's not quite firm how does that impact other things that were right how are you going to reprioritize like yes do you do you already have the and this isn't for you nick but right to the town manager right like you have the conversation with with michael fea right what are the things will we lay out the plan that we think can move and getting ahead of that as well like knowing where where that might come from right because we don't want to be in a situation where surprise we've got more and you and you're not sure where to take it from but advocating that that at least in this regard that perhaps this committee hear from nick if off cycle before the next round of cips nick thinks that if the numbers are known to be changing versus like i i feel like you know nick you're at the i think it's going to be more for all sorts of reasons but we've got to do some discovery yet if you get to that further on in the discovery before the next cycle i think it's it's prudent to be talking about that and figuring out right earlier rather than later what's going to move in in the plan going forward i would rather not be having that discussion if well if i were on this committee which i won't be um i would rather you guys not be having that discussion right as we're leading into a report next year here's a reality yeah something else i'll have to give so we need yeah and i think it's i mean it's a minor point but in the report uh at least we've suggested to include a long-term planning section into which we might in our discussion about this building we might fit the discussion about the long-term building plans for the schools i view this it area as another going to be a long-term item and maybe that's where we corral the discussion and maybe it's in there where you add a sentence you know you're referring to it you know we chose not to get into the details but we understand this is going to be a long-term position and we are encouraging that um as things evolve that nick not wait to the next cfp cycle so something that affected and that long-term planning sections to become more of your guys discussion um going forward once we finish the one-year five-year work um kind of the following six months probably will be dedicated to more in the long term so okay well i think with with that um i think you're done well i have oh i'm sorry i have a few more questions oh i'm sorry not specific for that if i can of course of course so uh in your revised cips most of which were the same ones you submitted initially although some of the numbers changed you go back and look at your cip number one and number two um the the i go on number one is cyber security whatever whatever and the detailed description embedded in that cip continues to refer to the video monitoring and then the second one has its title the public safety communications and the detail description continues to have the cyber security description so i believe i convinced myself that number one is really intended the money you have there is intended for cyber security related stuff in addition to number 11 which is the large request and number two is the public state communications but i wanted you to either confirm that tonight or go back and look at the descriptions change them the detailed descriptions change them so they're right and then send those back in so we know we have it we don't run afoul of what happened last year does that make sense to you it does and that was a question that i had um tonight was to ask what is the best way to update that we leave it as resubmit that file that you sent with the with your revised numbers right each one of those cips make sure the title and the description are exactly what they are with you know whatever you don't have to obviously um talk about vulnerabilities but just make sure that the description meets the product matches the project and that the title is representative of of what the project is that's two reasons the title is what's going to end up on the list of projects being you know summarized and the description is going to end up in that box right um to to give the fuller description so let's make sure that they're at least start right keep control what they where they where they end up although i'm pretty sure they'll get proof read better this year um yeah because what happened at the town meeting was i was prepared to talk about what what was what the actual projects that you were requesting and then right and then i kept getting redirected and so i asked for uh a copy of the warrant so i could go back and look to see what the description was and it wasn't when i yeah submitted so um it related this committee didn't didn't yeah no i'm not yeah it's just that was the situation if number one cf number one is in fact for cyber security related stuff um i used to work stuff um um without getting the word if it would be useful to know that there's a difference between number one and number 11. yeah because number 11 also references cyber security compliance uh and if it's ultimately they're all part of the same thing if if in resubmitting when you go back to look at those detailed descriptions you could for example decide well i'm just going to roll number one into number 11 and just change the numbers or not they may be sufficiently different that you want to keep them separate so you don't need to address that type but it sounds like you're going to have to go back and double check those um the second thing i want to talk about uh so as to the issue we had in the warrant last year when we met with the first time um i think your notes indicated that you finally would come up with about 150 000 worth of video monitoring stuff but there were still discussions to be had and protocols and procedures etc but that that particular line item it was number five in the capital budget uh was in the amount of 250 000 so we had some hopeful hopefulness that you would come back and say okay i don't need 100 000 of that 250 am i did i read your email correctly that you want to hang on to that 100 because you think you might need it for more video stuff and if so you also have a video another video request i think in the in your cip's number six maybe um yeah i don't remember off the top of my head you distinguish um why you think you you can't turn back that that excess yeah maybe you could address that now i can address that now um we we're pretty much all set with cameras here and in the town buildings we don't have cameras in the schools we do have a few cameras but that is up for discussion i'm working on a policy it's currently in review part of that review is um it will need to go to the select board it will need to go to the um school committee um for a review and then there'll be a process in which we identify how and where cameras will be placed okay so at this point in time i don't have a handle on how many cameras and what that cost will look like so the the reason i'm asking to hold on to it is because i'm anticipating that within the next year we're going to have this size this uh camera uh policy in place and we're starting to make decisions about when and where cameras will be placed does that make sense okay so yeah depending on the outcome of that you may end up having excess funds there it's possible good turn back yeah but but not right at the moment yeah i i i can't commit to releasing those um my last follow-up question was in your email uh the camera was to the group or i had a individual exchange with you um you responded to our question about the useful life of the pc laptop replacements and uh you brian kevin and i brian kevin the rest of you sent me a email asking uh why we were including the pc laptops in our capital plan um brian asked that brian kevin he did and i responded that we had asked that question we had since heard from nick that he felt that whatever he was intending to play replace with those amounts of money would be used for more than five years and um and again understanding useful life for gap purposes accounting purposes is different there's a different animal than i think for my view for capital planning is it's going to be around for more than five years and being used um so uh nick had responded to that um i haven't heard then back from brian i asked him you know how had he made that decision in the past because he was again he was asking the same question we had asked this doesn't belong in the operating budget and so i'm still comfortable based on nick's um follow-up input to us that if he believes that those would be used for more than five years that they're properly included in the capital plan but again um that's where we ended up after the last meeting but we uh we left that open knowing you were going to be here tonight and kelly and john weren't here last week uh now's the time to if anybody's concerned about them being the capital budget i i read through everything while i was out and so i i'm comfortable with that response i'm also comfortable based on personal experience um that the the gap um useful life is could be extended based on the fact that everybody has chip shortages and the costs are up so high so i and i agree with you that's not what matters to me here in terms of a capital plan matters to me physically how long are we are we actually planning to use them and so if our history is already that we use longer than five years um and i understood your answer right basically it's a you use it until it starts giving you problems and then right and then we deal with it i'm comfortable with it in the capital plan great and hopefully brian kevinny will be as well and i'll leave that to you nick to follow back up with brian because again we where we can avoid um variances between what we recommend and what he ultimately thinks is the right answer from his perspective um so i'm happy he reached out so he's when he looked at our whether he was looking at our minutes from the last meeting or what he was looking at i'm not sure but i'm happy he reached out and hopefully he was satisfied with your your response but if you could just double check with him um i do have one other follow-up question so those are online those those are all staff and faculty laptops right not the student lap not the student devices those are separate and those are on lease yeah these devices are just for town yeah and they're on lease so they're they're they're they're on yeah purchase right okay that's why it's different okay so the student homes are in the operating budget i'm sorry the student devices are in the operating budget the student devices are in the school budget yeah in the operating budget okay all right anybody else based on the next revised um items which i plugged into the spreadsheet that we've used to analyze this stuff based on our last meeting were there any other questions that john you or kelly had my only other question was because you've covered most of mine brian um was you mentioned somewhere and i may have just misread it data center funds did you mean the data center center funds that you have a project requested for or did you mean funds like um i know some data centers are providing um grant funds yeah the data center is for um system replacement our data center our days i just wanted i just want to make sure i was pretty sure i misread it i was just making sure there wasn't some um expectation that a part of a project was going to be funded with outside funds that aren't considered here yeah and then um the state is adding different programs different grant programs you know i'm seeing things about every six to nine months um and i'm taking advantage of those as quickly as i can the struggle the struggle that i have is you know i applied for three grants and they said well you can only do one at a time and one's taken almost four months do those typically require um a commitment of of matching funding of any kind from the town they're all they're all like you apply and then you can use it to do the the project yeah the way they've worked today and my experience is um i applied for the um the services and then the state sets us up with a vendor who will do the work so we actually don't get you don't get the invoice yeah we don't get an invoice so that is all managed by the state okay i'm asking because at least at some point when the capital bylaw was put together which i don't think is actually what's happening in practice right the intent when we were when we were in the working group putting that together was to make sure all capital projects were in the plan and if they had outside sources of funding that was identified and that way there was a comprehensive view of everything that was going on i feel a little bit differently about projects that can be completely fun the reason we we did that is because um a lot of times it's like uh an msba funding project the town has to approve it and then get the the funding against it or cpa cpc has to approve it so i feel a little bit differently about projects where throughout the year outside of the capital cycle um you can apply and and get a project completely funded but i wanted to raise it for the rest of the committee in case you feel differently yeah there's no commitment from our standpoint i mean if there's a significant resource requirement from the town to implement it i'd probably disagree like if we have to put our own labor to support that yeah the reason for part of the reason for putting it in the plan was also so that from a resource internal resource standpoint there was good view into well you asked for these 10 projects but you actually have six other projects right going on with other funds and we don't have a full view into it um but it's a little bit harder in my mind to say to nick hey put these projects in that you haven't applied for that a grant hasn't been posted for yet and meanwhile a month or two later something gets posted like he he's not going to come back to us like in the in the interim right to be able to apply we don't want him we don't want to delay that so agreed yeah yeah i mean again where the work's being done by a third party i mean no you know if it's only your time no offense then but if it's like a bigger you know we're more what about like 10 people from facilities are involved that's a different conversation i think yeah i'm clear would these be projects that aren't otherwise projects that you feel have to get done and therefore need should be in the plan and should be funded and if a grant says we'll we'll give you money if you do one of these and it's not something you were planning to do that's the kind of thing i think you're talking i think it could be i think it could be either but the ones that he's planning to do are already in the plan i still want him to go look for funds to wait to get the money he knows he wants to do it it should be in the plan right if it's a priority um if it's not a priority and it's a matter of well if a grant comes along and i apply for it and get it we you know take advantage of it yeah that's fine but if it's a priority it should be in the plan and then we should still go seek you know any available funds
yeah just just to give you a sense of the grants that i've received this is the paperwork for all of the cyber security audits um from third-party vendors through the state grants so i am able to utilize those grants as they are become available to do you know um significant amount of work these audits are not um we will just run something these are a couple weeks worth of work yeah a couple months i'm sorry we appreciate it so can i ask one question to follow on to your first question brian um so for the cyber security remediation um if there are changes through that down the road or do those go in as separate um projects or do i modify so if i know that's something i'm planning to do something let's say in 30 30 um do i update the uh budget do i update the request that's already been submitted and added into year 30 even though we're talking about 28 or does that go into a separate uh ask so the way we set up the forms is if if it's that's like cyber security where you're sort of staging the work off of one of one project but you're going to request funds one town meeting at a time right so we only when we go to town meeting we put the plan and finance committee puts the plan in front of them but they're really only approving at town meeting year one right so just because you put amounts in the out years doesn't mean those are going to get added to your to your capital budget but you can certainly on the request form you have to create five right five separate tabs for the same like hey this is ongoing cyber security so for example roads epw that's all on one tab right with all their amounts because it's the same type of work that can happen every year it's not you know five uh five different school buildings it's it's the same type of work that's going to happen okay just so i'm clear on that so i think kelly what you're saying is if currently in your form that you submitted uh in year 2030 you you've got a hundred thousand in there if you discover next year that it's now going to be 150 i think he should put in 150 you should change it to 100 because you're going to fill out the same form again um so if the amount is increased you don't submit a a new request but you just bump up that amount yeah and when like when we get to next year's cycle the same way we did this year we gave you guys pre-populated what was in the plan we're going to do that same i assume the committee is going to do the same thing ideally they're going to send you back like hey this is what was approved right at town meeting and you're going to go through and be like nope right i got to add this here and you can just update it you don't need to add another tab if it's the same type of project work similar to what brian um said about if the two cyber things are really kind of the same thing just put it in one line don't and on one tab don't don't have it as separate because that's going to cause confusion at town meeting yeah yeah yeah it's only for the different projects they should be i mean it's pretty straightforward which is what again assuming that your cip number one is in fact cyber security remediation modernization you have 150 000 fiscal 28 and you have 150 000 in 2031 so it's two different years same form assuming you think it's better to keep that cip separate and not roll it into 11 that's fine but i think your question is if two months from now you say geez i decided i need really need another sum of money in 2030 or i want to move the 150 from 2031 to 2030 talking with the town manager when they do their capital plan you know i assume you could just take the cip you submitted and brass and you did that with the final replacement your initial request had it was 250 000 2032 when you resubmitted you used the same form and then you moved it from 2030 to 2031 and increase the amount in the 50 000 so the goal is to make it as efficient for you okay so when these out you know great thank you yeah i guess the only is um so you're going to be resubmitting some of the forms if you could do that sooner than later then it's good because we have a report due on the 15th so okay yeah that'd be helpful in certain
great um since carol joined us uh you want to see a chance if she has anything to add to the discussion we just had yeah thank you yeah uh carol do you have anything else to add or contribute or any thoughts uh carol martin lake road remember the select board um i actually was in the other link the executive session link waiting for you to come so sorry i was late um i don't really understand what the question is to add to so okay you were listening to us i just wanted to give you the courtesy if you had anything you wanted to ask or add um i'll be happy to add that i think you're doing a terrific job thank you yeah i think carol is just me speaking the others can speak for themselves i i do think um based on this discussion what the discussion occurred at town meeting the select board might want to consider how you want to get yourselves involved in this question now i i you may be i don't i don't see that you are publicly i haven't seen any agenda so uh anyway that's that's what you do for a living but uh i as a resident would like to know that the the top board in town is uh is taking an interest in this particular matter particular matter meaning the capital uh it
it and other infrastructure security okay all right i will consult with mr mccall next week when we worked on our agendas and see what he has to say about this he's looking at me now no no i i think people need to know that like the chair and i talk regularly and and i do share a lot of updates with the board in between our our you know every two week meetings so um we we do our best to communicate and share anything that comes up and you know i let them know often about plans uh we we talk a lot about it at our meetings but sometimes things come up before then so i make them aware of what we're doing i will say last year excuse me i'm sorry yeah i assume you do that in compliance with the open meeting yes yes i do i i never talk to more than two at a time and i don't talk serially it's usually the chair and vice chair who know anything that happens in between the meeting so last year i think we had um ms lapin came before the select board to present the report even that as it was submitted to the finance committee and um mr carver and i have spoken about this and i think we're going to have another conversation in a couple weeks as to when would like to come in and speak with us um and if there's anything in particular that you want us to know at that time maybe that would be a good time to bring it up does that work yeah yeah that makes sense that makes good sense oh that makes sense i'm done thank you thank you all right thank you thank you all set thanks very much thank you thanks for coming i appreciate it i appreciate your time forward to hearing from you on your operating budget information you sent me when you come before the the picture of the people looking forward to it brian i'm going to be exiting as well i have to other things thank you folks of course yeah thank you thank you very much for the guidance thank you thank you calling that point out of order brian since i'm here in for a penny in for a pound i'll stick around with you you know the pc laptop question was a capital operating budget question so that was the nexus part of the email exchange but yes there are other things that you're not interested in well you are president but i am interested i'm just not a part of it anyhow so we have minutes out of discussion at 7 25 that's far off okay our next agenda item is to review and discuss the departmental capital requests submitted this year um and i think that that to a degree is going to roll into a discussion of the uh draft report um so i think maybe maybe a good place to start is going over um what we reviewed last week and because we moved some things around and if there are any questions or comments on that uh you guys agree that that's probably a good place to pick up the conversation um i'm going to start with one that's not has doesn't have to do with what you've moved around but it's continuing partially on the comment i made a minute ago about um cpc projects we had no field submitted other than the high school field and we we added i know the town manager already left but we added the hundred thousand dollars to the town manager um budget for each year for which is i believe being used for sort of field upgrades minor field upgrades um we put that in even though that wasn't submitted but there were no other fields or playgrounds um submitted and i i guess i wanted to raise before we're finalizing this report um that that makes sense that there weren't any um because this has been a pretty hot topic in town over the last few years not not super just recently but it has yeah i don't have it with me but um and i don't want to bog down the meaning but my recollection was last year there was a request for a field somewhere don't remember it was at the middle school or somewhere else that it was out and it was out in the one year beyond our our five-year plan and i thought there was there was an ask for a little bit of design money which we couldn't include because we pushed a number of things out so we might at least we could a reach out directly to the recreation director um um or b we could look at least at last year's um last year's summary where we had things that were out in 2032 that weren't yet includable in the plan and see which field that was and be more specific uh and the other thing that was missing um which you brought up at an earlier meeting which i think we could just plug in just because it's it's it's in their stated um plan of uh rehabilitating uh playgrounds that they go to the cpc every other year looking for four hundred thousand dollars and last year we had slotted in in our recommendation fiscal 28 400 000 and fiscal 30 400 000. um i have a copy i found a copy of the plan so i know which playgrounds and they've moved some of them around um but um i know it's not our job to put things in the plan but it's it's not the reason i'm yeah i understand that the reason i'm raising it is because it's been a ongoing problem ear rear and i'm not sure where the disconnect is so yeah we can go throw it in but i'm not sure where the disconnect is right the request went out to everybody i know that there's things like playgrounds and things that are on at least recreations plan to want to do so what's the myth what's i'm getting at with what's the missing link why why are those not getting submitted right and is it because while there wasn't any approved in the five five years fine okay why isn't there anything in the lat in the in the new year we just added so i i don't feel strongly we have to put it in because it wasn't submitted i'm more i don't know if we put a comment in that nothing was submitted right for those and just leave it at that um but i'm not looking to go chase it i i just it's much or makes a huge difference for 2032 for us to chase it at this point i would agree but it's not just a 32 because it like is as as brian was saying like there's a plan to go ask cp um three playgrounds for three playgrounds and those aren't in here so we think that's just driven by the fact that the whole school assessment is ongoing they've just kind of stopped no i think it's the flow it's the question of where you know michael fay included in the past in his submission some recreation but he took them out there were there were a couple of basketball hoops for 50 000 apiece right we're in the plan that we sent the approved plan that came out yeah and unfortunately that happened when both of us were on the finance committee recreation actually did submit some things and the finance director just took them out right so that's that's why i'm sensitive to it and i'm afraid we're going to issue yet another report that says there's no field fields in it and not even a consideration it's one thing if they ask for it and we don't recommend it but it's another thing to be like it's not even it's not even requested yeah i'll go who does that go to who would who does that who makes it right now is her last name catherine brenna's rack but technically i think they're supposed to get submitted by facilities um i think this this goes back to my diatribe earlier in the year about who owns the the submission of of that projects so we we could send an email out to michael pay at copying catherine brenna uh last chance haven't seen anything on playgrounds fields basketball hoops said anything any or other recreation projects i mean i can go find what i thought it was another field out beyond our five-year window last year just uh rather just the only thing i find a little odd about it is well two things one um if if they don't make the request like you said i'm not sure we should go fishing for the second is sending another email to mike and he's been very very responsive but he just took a seven hundred thousand dollar hit and now we're asking him to now does he does he want money for no no i'm not i'm not asking i'm asking i'm not asking to add it i'm asking process wise because this has happened carol can vouch for this right there have been multiple years where there's outrage that we haven't invested in fields and then it's like well nothing was submitted in the capital plan i think i personally got yelled at in a finance committee meeting by another member of the finance committee for not have it or no member of the select board for not having fields in the plan so i'm just raising the issue because the reason they're not in there is because no one asked for them it wasn't a matter of we tossed them we might have but they're not being asked for so i don't what i don't want to happen is an article pops up right and this happened several years in a row because it didn't get addressed so so maybe it's more hey we're confirming nothing was submitted right instead of fishing we're just confirming hey we didn't receive anything yes sorry carol go ahead carol thank you all right mr chair chair has to recognize you sorry exactly i'm saying mr chair thank you for recognizing me i hope you are uh maybe i can help a little bit here you're correct there was a five hundred thousand dollars for design money for submitted for the route 20 south landfill and part of that that's two projects one is the laid materials materials i call it laid down but it's materials storage maybe uh possibly putting the school buses and then a field with no lighting at the old route 27 i believe that has been moved not and not and not in the plan so there was that submitted that was one field okay but that was that was submitted by dpw not by rec or facility right but it was submitted the dpw with it's three it's three groups you turn it down a little bit thank you it's three groups it's the select board is supporting the field it's uh it's um the schools for the school buses and it was tpw for that and mr holder put it through he was on that committee whether that's the correct person to submit and i believe that has now i think i heard you say then uh not supported the playgrounds is an interesting one and i would suggest somebody perhaps mr or hurley here speaks to mr keveney because when the cpc gretchen schule was the chair then they redid their plan i think they do their plan like not what every five years maybe every 10 maybe five and in there they agreed that part of what they would do is to support a playground every other year i think there were 12 or 13 so it's on a 26 28 perhaps 30 year cycle because we've added a couple playgrounds since then you're correct the last year we fought they support they agreed to support funding for a playground and then we switched robots just transfer the funds at this town meeting because the children's way was moving in we needed a playground that was suitable for preschoolers at the happy hollow but then so now there is no playground this year there'll be one next year i believe when that happened and again somebody needs to confirm this mr keveney is that because it's a funding source outside of kelly help me out here's a general fund is that the right word fun yeah it's outside the general funding and it's that he did not include it as a funding source it wasn't originally but it has not been um included in more recent years to my knowledge so essentially you could put the 200 in from the playground take the 200 or the 400 back out yeah carol just just on that subject i mean on page sorry that's wrong wrong word yeah let me get it i look at the right
they may have changed that from two years ago which is i think your point so the other interesting challenges and then this might be one of those areas that uh sipsy needs to resolve maybe have a conversation with um uh the uh the cpa folks is they gather their requests i think the deadline is november and then they review them in december and vote them in january so they're kind of their cycle does not match yours so it might be that may a couple places to go look to if you would like to and come yeah i don't think that helps we can end it here it's just that when we when we had the capital working group what we said was all capital projects including those that are going to seek cpc funds should be submitted in the plan right so that there's a again comprehensive understanding of what resources are being utilized um if if that's since changed and that's not what we want to do and everything's going to get funded you know submitted to cpc fine but it's inconsistent with what we talked about excuse me let me say nothing has been changed this is the system they've been using my suggestion is that if they're supposed to include their projects in your the five-year plan i think we need to have a conversation that's between the cips and the cpa cpc to find out how we can get those projects listed yeah i mean i think carol you you are correct looking at the last year in last spring's warrant um yeah the presentation of the pirate plan was different than all the prior number of years where we had kind of a what i refer to as the five-year plan up the top of the table we had the things outside certain award article type things below that and the cpc items were included there that that's not how it was done this past year a couple of those items that used to appear below the line were then in text right after the table but i just looked and the text had no mention of the the cpc items which we had included in our recommended five-year plan which we could continue to do the other thing is the cpc having watched a few of their meetings i think they generally have been supportive of those playground requests but they're always to your point carol they're always pretty careful to say but we can't give you any guarantees we have to deal with requests that come in and they have to prioritize what those requests are and if they ultimately decide that they have enough money that they want to put forward on those fields they'll do it um uh so i think all we need to do is we we can either be a little more proactive and this would include the town manager i mean to your point he didn't submit a cip the commander's office didn't submit a cip for the 100 000 a year field rehab at the moment i included that assuming that if we were to reach out to them you can get a cip for it um and and and it's a hot topic um right um but um you know i think it would it would be appropriate courtesy to maybe do it to the email that katherine bretta the recreation department to say just want to let you know we did not we're getting toward the end of our process we did not receive any cips for um um playground rehabilitations um nor any new fields beyond the field at the high school uh and in fact noticed that somebody said did they completely drop the uh the two who yeah they dropped them because they said it was planned to be cpc is what i asked michael fea that at one of our meetings and maybe to say uh you know this is at least for this committee this is your last best chance to get something to us quickly um and then if nothing comes in you know i think we just because because last year our report would have referred at least to the cpc uh projects uh we probably should put something in just to transition between the two years put the dollars into my original my original statement is you know it's a new committee it's a new process it's going to take us a full year a few years perhaps a couple rounds the bases to make sure we've got everything and what we should have if you feel something should be there i suggest you reach out and have that other committee come in i will say this i remember brian can you remember back when is it mr was it jerry hillary was the chair of the cpc all those all those items were in the capital budget yeah carol i knew it was there so just i don't know if that's a help or not we we got to move on but what i would say is it's it's almost irrelevant to me whether or not cpc is is going to agree to fund them or not it's relevant because that's the funding source that's being assigned to them but it's putting it in the plan because it's a project that the town's going to do with town with town even though it's cpc it's town resources and town staff right it's not a separate set of staff that are going to management manage it so that's why it should go in but i i hear you and we'll we'll move on and we'll ask the questions again all right and i agree with you back to your question was uh do uh does anybody have telling john any questions or issues with how we went about um fitting in the i.t revised request and i had a i had a very own couple of follow-ups but i'll let you guys go first i don't remember if the notes had seemed yeah i was before i was comfortable with it but great but yeah it's not great and then the biggest one was the adding this cyber security compliance and taking the roof out yeah yeah so i had one minor question as i was and i'll bring it back up when i do the minutes i had a couple of edits on the minutes um that you saw so if you look at um fiscal 28 the um you have it the uh the summary at the bottom of the uh spreadsheet that shows the funding sources looked at my minutes i have the tables in the back of the minutes and i realized i had mislabeled there's 130 000 it request for av equipment which again that was the other question i meant to ask nick so i was here we were questioning which rooms were getting the upgrades uh but anyway uh in my table in the minutes i had mislabeled that as free cash and in fact in the excel spreadsheets that we've been working with it's under levy debt but when i look at the summary of where we ended up on levy debt and free cash um we're over levy debt by versus what was in the warrant by 198 000 and we're under on free cash by 136 000. i'm just going to ask if people wanted to move 130 over to free cash just to get those numbers closer that makes sense yes not just for that because it's also because it's a small right um and i'll correct the minutes uh well i guess the minutes will then be correct as free cash so i'll correct this spreadsheet and send out version seven you knew i had just pasted the fy28 table into the report right
literally five minutes ago
um no other um questions on while we're on the the question of the roof and this has to do more on the narrative of the report uh but i'll discuss it now because we talked about the roof um as i understand mike fair wanted to include is a 25 or 30 000 for design uh in fy28 i think we said yeah that was that was fine and then you wanted to move the 700 000 to the following year um but i think we discussed the fact that because of the vision committee that's going on uh and their report presumably is going to come out in the next 12 months um do we not include uh the 700 000 in the following year i think we decided that we should not we decided not just because we didn't have any funding capacity to include it i think what we talked about was that we and i labeled on the bottom of the table that's for fiscal 28 that's attached to the minutes i put the word priority next to it and i think in the in the text of the minutes i indicated that were there insufficient funds for the town manager to be able to work it into his fiscal 28 budget we just wanted to make it known we reviewed it as a priority but it needed to go in with the other town building type requests we're waiting the resolution of that committee's work right um so what that means essentially for us is we're saying they should try to prioritize it in 28 if they can if not then we'll have to rework and 29 as a priority essentially well well i guess what i was thinking i mean it's a total of about over six million dollars with the 700 000 thrown in um when it won't be included at all in any of the in any of the budgets but was 700 the piece of roof that had the structural issue or is this yeah this is the safety one that we said yeah yeah and that's i feel like cascades all the way through the plan but i go i'm back and forth between well the visioning committee will come out but what if the visioning committee is like it's likely to be i think brian even said this in a prior meeting like a five six year right before they actually can actually do whatever that vision is i think the roof still got to get fixed at least that segment that's what might we asked mike that specific question like can this wait and he said no the first time right then he got and i understand why like okay i understand his ask to split so he can get the design started right i appreciate doing it that way because at least you can get moving um but i'm a little nervous about not having it in there to me it seems like it becomes almost priority number one for f by 29 you can look at 29 and look at the items that are there and if folks see something that you feel the roof takes priority over we could certainly deal with that now the other thing i would say is i'd almost rather have it in fy 29 and if the visioning committee comes and says you know got a great plan it's you know can be implemented immediately then yeah then you have 700 right and you can pull back in next year in any of the other years because it wasn't safety related it was just a lot of those are roofs as well well there was there was a 300 it was he labeled it phase two but it was the third piece of the roof he had 310 000 in fiscal 29 which we took out if we don't have enough funding sources and and we rationalized it based on you know we've got to find out what this committee does because they may decide to borrow the whole amount for all the improvements once they're done which case the roofs will get done right um and so other than that particular roof having the structural issues that he alluded to um i think we decided it would be inconsistent pushing the 310 you know into purgatory and we did the same thing with 500 000 in fiscal 30 we pushed that we didn't include that in the plan um but having said that um if you look at the items in this plan we don't have any real funding left we're over on levy debt by 140 000 and we're over on free cash by 130 000. um you know big items you have the public safety building hvac upgrade so i suppose you could reach out to michael and say hey which is more important to you um and at least then go find a 200 000 item the dpw bms tie-in with the other one so you know and again then you're just punting those off into 30 because he felt you know he felt important to get those things done um where you go after items and other departments purview and i think all the other ones people made a pretty canal a strong case for why they were needing them in fiscal 29. i just thought it was if we labeled it a sort of utmost priority of the town building improvements um that when the town manager gets down to figure out his budget and plan if they find resources or there's things that they don't prioritize the same way we did and they can fit in in fiscal 28 so be it the other thing i'll say is and brian keveney continues to treat it this way and who knows based on cost escalation it might end up being the case anyway but the 5.4 million dollar number if you go back that was the request that we got from michael feya um last year which was an amount that appeared in the warrant prior year to that and he provided us detail of that 5.4 million which included a couple million from wolf and then when we pushed back and said hey can you figure out how to phase that he came back with you know phasing it over four fiscal years and it added up to less than two million um but um when i looked at some things brian keveney sent me he continues to show the 5.4 million and then he's adding in the three the three roof amounts and i emailed back to him i said no those roof amounts are in that 5.4 million and i just heard you allude to the 5.4 million so i just want to be careful that we're not overstating what the uh what we expect that request to be but with cost escalation that's how we get there i mean 5.4 is not getting escalated at all it's already two years old so so i i just want to make the point that you can get it's getting confusing as it is i go back to though like again i think the rest of the roofs while are beneficial to do them because it won't leak that has other damage the reason we all said the 700 was because of the structural issue right so i'm i'm personally still inclined to try fit it in and push something out i mean and to be honest i would i mean i missed the conversation but i imagine the telephone system is probably not critical to cyber security at this phase and if we're adding 1.9 million i'd say you know we can all live with crappy phones a little longer that'd be my personal opinion um you know i think it's fair i've said that before i mean we added this much money i think it's fair to say okay that's yeah and are you really going to do that on top of your 1.9 million of cyber security that's half of it so where's the other um and and just anything we pull out of here in theory if we thought enough to leave it in fiscal 29 we're not going to move it you would think we'd move it to 30 and 30 again we have no well actually we do have levy debt capacity in 30. yeah i mean i would just i would punt the phone system to there and just personally just keep it simple right until it becomes a priority it's 340 in my opinion because hopefully after everything else is done there'll be a better technology um library again uh yeah that was my other question you could do the library building generator well i was gonna what about the library ground improvements either one i mean graph are they still in here i thought they were still in the bump that out lower level upgrades yeah what we just the children's room and lower level upgrades were already done they weren't finished is that what he told us no i just know that i thought from what's not finished i'm inclined to say push the generator right and we have the area and we have other we have other places people can go go to the grandchildren that's it yeah i think it's nice to it's nice to have until based on everything else we're doing i mean we have yeah we have other places we have the middle right middle school or high school community and we have that as well center yeah with the loaner generator we have somewhere yeah so you would propose moving the library building generator 30 levy debt the telephone system replacement i.t with pro quo move it uh levy debt that's 740 and then plug in the town building roof into fiscal 29. here's the simple so i would move it from the excluded from the fiscal 28 and just show it as an item that got moved in these uh tables keep track of it the library grounds improvement is in fy28 really yeah it's in but we're using cap stabilization yeah we changed the funding source rather than taking it out oh okay okay and you know it sounded like if the town manager decides that he doesn't want to use the cap stabilization fund i mean we just take that off yeah that was why we picked a lower priority one how do you build straight i thought i read it there which i don't remember a whole lot lately so going going once going going twice fiscal 29 picks up 700 000 roofs well we'd have to do them with the roofs with then the question is do we do the roofs with free cash which both those other items are being funded with free cash
see what else we have we can do the uh do the equipment h1 sweeper with free cash it's the biggest item in there right now it's 525 of it whether what the radio systems and those things um we have we have the cyber in levy debt but i mean shouldn't we be trying to do in levy debt the things that have
periods so i mean i want the roof and debt 250 sidewalk improvements in free cash we need we need the things that are labeled levy that we need to change them to free cash oh i'm sorry the tune of 700 000 meeting room av that's 130 right oh sorry i'm in 28. you already moved that that's not helpful we have salt shed which is a long live asset equipment sweeper possibly well i'm sure it will last 10 years anyway wait a minute i'm in the wrong am i in the wrong year you had to do the same thing i would say the hbacf rate is a long term item wall repairs pretty much everything in there is i mean wall repairs you could argue or i mean it's building but you could argue that it's more cosmetic than anything so make it free cash i mean of all the things that are in there yeah because that road number keeps getting bigger would you still come in any other category or no it's just us do you have anything else i would do the street street sweepers free cash and but it's going to 175 000 you have nothing else that small with levy debt nothing says we have to i mean they could be plus or minus part levy debt and part free cash yeah they can split it um
i'd rather yeah what do we say though the sweeper do the sweeper free cash and we do part of the high school and middle school ceiling wall repairs part free cash and part levy debt i'll figure out the numbers the roof would be levy debt and we're taking out two things moving them from free cash to levy debt
everybody tracking that yep mr feya thanks you john i think it's right it's going to have five people's input yeah i don't think we did much on 30 31 32 so i think budget's still allowed most things at that point yeah were you satisfied with your discussion on the 2.7 million field or do you want to these earlier comments about like no but it's just i i still it's hard for me this to we have a budget we know cyber's going to be growing to justify upgrading high school fields which seems very much like a nice day especially when you have again things that are necessary so that was just what you missed last week um well i i appreciate that and i don't necessarily disagree but i think why i'm comfortable with it in the plan is because we have it in excluded debt and so that is going to be a vote so a separate vote yeah at the ballot box right it's a hard vote the the town we're gonna we're gonna put in the plan what needs to be in the plan and the town is going to be asked like do you want to do this twice they're going to get asked at the ballot box if they want to do it um as excluded debt yeah and then they're going to get asked again at town meeting in a separate article not within hopefully not within the capital budget um so i'm comfortable putting it in there because everybody's going to get there not that they don't all get their say anyway but they're going to get multiple opportunities to yeah it's not a all or nothing it's this is you can take this as it is yeah if it were inside the plan i and it was instead of something else i would i would have a real hard time with that yeah and just i understand excluded debt that's the color of money we can't like switch things into it right because it does become its own standalone article that you you have to vote the project yeah a group of projects it has to be in the question and it has to be suitable yeah it does it doesn't technically have to be we have policy that it should be um which that's actually less than but we've talked about why we're doing that but it has to be in the wording of the of the ballot question um and that question is deciding whether or not it's excluded debt not whether or not you're doing the project then town meeting yeah you're deciding whether or not to do it in theory it could be included in the capital plan and voted as part of the whole capital plan but i wouldn't recommend that and i don't know that the that anybody else would recommend it because you you don't want to have the rest of the capital budget get picked apart so you do it separately as a separate article if you put the 2.7 in doesn't that blow apart the the limits it's excluded you're no no if it's a capital budget yeah cause another issue uh you can once it's been voted no i mean to say we included the 2.7 that we we don't have any place to put it no if you put it in it's just excluded debt i know but if you tried to fit it yeah isn't that what you were suggesting liz it's like it's one of those where you're like could you just like do they need the full to me like can you carve off 700k to cover you know the roof repair i think the answer is no yeah because it's its own standalone it's going to be voted on and voted on its entirety so the 2.7 or whatever it's going to grow to um and and i think it's just overarching though if we have a total budget of acts that 2.7 is including that if it wasn't going i guess my fundamental question is if it wasn't going towards excluded debt or or couch says excluded debt would it go back into levy to free cash or something or is it really just if we doesn't buy us anything there's no more room right yeah if we included it that way but we're not and so i and i wouldn't recommend that we include it i think you took it out and just said hey just don't do it we can't put something else in yeah well does our 28 or 29 budget now go up by an additional 2.7 no okay and that's not at all yeah no but but you still could as a committee majority of the committee could still because we're dealing with a five-year plan based on new information from a year ago when we sort of left it where it was right um and i'm not advocating this but you could um say hey we've got um operating deficits from 2029 anyway through 36 um whether it's excluded debt or levy it really doesn't matter at the end of the day taxpayers are still going to be getting a much bigger bill and so from a fiscal perspective you've been said this is a nice to have but i don't know that i want to committee want to include that as a priority even if it's being funded with that and handled as an article if the committee majority committee said we just don't think it's that important or you know we want to keep pushing it out and see what the future holds that's certainly fair game i said i'm not advocating that just because i'm sitting here as the school representative wouldn't ask you to burn yeah and and i had a different hat on i might advocate that but um and it becomes probably will become a bigger issue if you're sitting here you know um a year from now right now looking at the capital budget um and articles for that town meeting and having probably more definitive information on the town's fiscal situation than exists right at the moment that you you might not be there today but you might be there then and i won't be there so and i i agree with everything brian just said the reason i lean towards leaving it in is because and i'm even fine i i would even caveat it in in a report right to say you know you think this could be stretching right taxpayers you know desire to pay right for these things but we're going to leave it in here because it should be it can be a separate or it can it will be a separate vote um i would rather not make that i guess my i would rather not make that decision for the town i would rather let the town make that decision with with the knowledge at the time of what it means from a tax perspective right because we'll know that when they're actually voting on it so yeah the only thing i would say is to counterbalance that again i'm taking off my school representative pat um um as we've all seen over the years now meetings attendance will depend on what's up for consideration and so uh you could certainly expect a lot of people that are interested in an improved high school ball field to show up at that meeting um and that's their focus and as they may understand that it has a broader fiscal impact and so my view would be sometimes the purpose of some of these layers of bureaucracy that are put in place are to look out for the entire town not just for the three or four hundred people that show up for a particular warrant article and even if this committee were to take on that as its approach and say picking on that item we just don't see doing that in the near future because of the fiscal picture if it changes we could reconsider it that still doesn't mean that someone can't put in a warrant article for it right and yeah request of the software to put a ballot question on and the 400 or 500 people show up and vote it in but it's a flaw in our form of government that you know you get these disjointed decisions made by individual groups that are focused on a particular issue and all that adds up to large tax bills leaking roofs but awesome and i understand that i i understand the process and again it's just it's one of those things when you hear okay we've got a 1.9 looming expense that's coming down the pipe and it's going to grow and it's like oh and by the way we need baseball fields it's just kind of you know uh at odds with the priorities at least in my mind but that's just my opinion so anyway i've said it there it is and you know i i would not be uncomfortable um you know adding you know a sentence or two that the committee discussed the 2.7 million dollar request on fiscal 30 uh acknowledging fiscal issues the town faces uh chose to leave it in the plan but fully expect to revisit it yeah um like those words that's fair yeah that's right next year just to put everybody on notice um and i think i can't speak for the school committee but i think if it happened to be that that item was up in the capital budget for consideration this year and they were also looking for two million dollars for the msba i'm pretty sure i know which one they would prioritize that's them prioritizing not necessarily oh i understand yeah so all right any other pages on the numbers but brad needs to get to to the motion no more changes no i will um redo this send out virgin center you resend it to me i did um i didn't watch it um i think the dpw tom holder may have raised carol did you are you still going to the dpw meetings yes except i couldn't go last night because i was chairing the select board meeting oh i'm sorry that's correct so he was going to i am interested in what happened so thank you all yeah so he was going to uh at least have a preliminary discussion with the board which we had requested that we wanted to know if the board um was in sync with tom's requests particularly on the some of the water and wastewater projects that were new um and so he was supposed to go through some of that with them last night i'm not sure they were necessarily going to take a formal vote um so um you know the tape will be up soon enough so you know i'll take a little tape and report back to the next meeting but when i was watching a brief snippet of the wastewater meeting because i wanted to see if he was going to talk that's a separate commission and he did go through with them his capital request and again he didn't ask them for a formal vote um i thought i heard him say that um it was likely he was going to be coming back with some tweaks um he was saying that to the commission not to me um so uh obviously time is running out for us so you know i'm just don't be surprised if something comes over the transom from it's always going to happen though right i mean yeah we talk about this right we're going to issue and then we'll deal with what comes after after he didn't he wasn't specific on what weeks you know he was thinking about but so
and so i guess the next item then is uh the the reports um i know i've sent around it's i think it's version four is the one i've sent around um i've got some some additional edits and i've made notes on what i have to add uh for uh for this evening uh but i think what why don't we want to first throw it out and say anybody have any particular overarching comments about the the format because it's a little bit different from last year's suggestions changes um i didn't necessarily have questions on the format other than um the administrative matters you might still be able to pull a good section of that and stick it in an appendix but um i was thinking possibly everything but the charter slash mission and capital planning and debt policies like that so sort of everything before that from administrative matters to where the charter mission starts you could stick it in the back but it's i don't feel strongly about it and it's already pretty abbreviated so um and then i did want to just if we when we get to it can we walk through this second section by section because let's put the tables together some of them um i have questions because things have changed from what we were doing a year ago before i i spend too much time and then we change our mind so in table one um i just want to make sure that's supposed to be the prior capital plan approved i understood that um my question was you had said it said in the notes to add 2031 so my question was are we looking to have five years here including 27 or four like we did last year i think four makes sense that's okay that's that's what i started to do but the year in the title was still seven so i wasn't sure if that was intentional because the 31 was updated i think you just carried the tables i just yeah all the i did i just cut and pasted all the tables i know but the title for it which is not part of the table but 31 was up the oh 27 to 31 31 31 was updated and 27 wasn't changed of the table yeah i got it got it okay good i actually made this say i put this thing table of contents if people think it's a good idea if not we don't have to use it but i i made the same issue had the same error there i should have put 28. yeah so i i like that because it's a quick hit um if you just want to go quick to the table you can find it quickly not like i've ever had a problem trying to get to tables in my own report
but okay so that's good so i did that one and um we didn't have a total on this last year do we want a total on it we still on table one yeah remember one yeah like for the four years we don't know for the four years oh and the only reason i say maybe not is because it's not technically the total budget right because their articles implies that it's 14 million approved but that would be the only reason
i mean it would be relevant to say you have a total on table two and i assume we're going the same table order that you had yeah um at least that would be comparable well except table two has five years in it so it won't um currently has five years oh i'm sorry it'll have five years it will have five years the only reason to put a total on is that you can see like okay how much was the four year the four year if you compare um yeah yeah yeah but i don't think i don't feel strongly so i'll leave it as is for now and if you guys feel differently i'll add another year all right we talked about hey i beat that that horse um um in the paragraph at the bottom of page two we say
the form requested a list of capital projects covering the next five years as well as a request to identify expected capital appropriations for fy 33 to 47. um can we say significant capital appropriations true yep yep because we didn't ask them to give us a whole plan yep that's a good point
okay so we get to the paragraph above table two we say it's 70.4 for requests for 112 projects i have 72.4 but that i'm not sure i just want to reconcile the difference between what i had in what is there and then my other problem is we say 112 projects i think it's 113 when you throw in the new it schedule but um that doesn't account for the multi-year nature of some of the projects which would be fine except then we start talking about individual counts of projects for each year and it it insinuates that there's less projects in the out years than there is and since even though we've got them across the year each of them are going to get voted individually right i i think we should up that number to the full which i think is 151 but i would agree just otherwise i mean you know we started explaining the semantics of how we build the forms i don't think no no i don't think that matters right and i don't know if brian if it just makes sense i don't know where the 70.4 came from if somebody can point me to it and then i can look for the yes we'll probably redo it anyway because we just changed a bunch of things yeah so let's see yeah because as i'm doing this i'm just trying to check numbers to be a second source yeah i'm not sure i i think i i think i've i'm quite sure where i pulled it from okay you said you have what i have 72.4 um i'll double check it okay and then this next table i think based on the words in the paragraph above i think there might be a little bit of a difference of thought on what that next table is what that next table was last year was signifying it was one we added because the requests had changed so much from the beginning of the process to the end of the process if you remember we got a lot of recent missions and we were trying to illustrate the fact that 46 projects changed um and that the absolute value of the projects was actually pretty significant um so we can do that again but i just need to know where are we measuring the line from because it's not quite as clear to me do we need to do it again that's what i don't i don't know that we need to like why is it important to us this year to say what changed i think it's not important now i think it's important whatever if we do it and them i think it's important to do it there and now it's clean excuse me we're just talking about what changed from august to yeah so but i think in the words we were actually getting at something different than that and i just want to make sure if i'm reread it oh no we talk about during and after the meetings so maybe not maybe those are just last year's words no those are last year's words okay that's okay yeah so my question is do we want to up front do any um comparison of and i know we're starting with the capital plan in table one that was approved but do we want to say anywhere what the difference was between the approved capital plan and our prior recommendation up front or do we care um that's the table that i sent you when you sent me right in email right um yeah and i think we should include that somewhere i did the summary of your request and then i have that more yeah yeah um just that closes the book on last year and it did it at a high enough level i think do we want to put it up front though or we want to stick that as sort of a back exhibit i think in the back in the appendix yeah just just as again as a point of reference if someone's looking at the prior report and process and you know we did have a significant number of variances and so maybe it's a paragraph in in that early part maybe after table one of like this is different than maybe just based on our you know based you know connecting the dots from prior year report to what ended up in the town meeting warrant there were significant number of variances due to the different processes involved uh you know see appendix blip for a summary and detail of whatever those variances were we would know most of them were timing which is true um but it's it it's just that our process last year was a little different than our process this year what i mean we've got a late start yeah i was you know yeah no i'm i'm talking but if i think it's worth bridging that over which also goes to trying to be more collaborative in the process this year so i think that part of what kelly is in terms of text with a reference to somewhere in appendix to look at the actual numbers would make sense i don't know if that's the very first thing which you would say well how do we make out last year have you you know have your report fair in the hands of the town manager i mean one of the things that i rather than this last year just again because of the process we had so many revisions it obviously cost us time so to me that table was partly explaining why it took us a little bit longer than it might otherwise have taken us given the number of you know revisions we haven't had that many revisions this year you're talking about table two now right yeah but but i would be as a table one and i i've tried to highlight it in the tables i've attached to the minutes i would be interested in maybe uh either in the text or it's worth a table uh number of new requests and number of requests that moved around and number of requests that were deleted over a prior year whereas over last over the table one numbers yeah so you're saying for table two instead of what's there we do a table that's reconning at a high level the approved plan last year to the new plan in terms of projects added projects deleted project shifted something along those lines yeah yeah and then you know depending on the i'm assuming just reflective of the previous four years right because obviously yeah yeah yeah yeah and so in the appendices where we presumably we're going to have the same list of detailed projects which is sort of equivalent to what's in the minutes um yeah we can certainly add descriptors i'm not sure the colors will show up we could add the scripture descriptions which i think i have moved to fiscal year blip moved from fiscal year blip you know deleted although we don't if they're deleted they're not going to show up on that list so i just know how much detail you know we really mean the minutes certainly won't have that level of detail but and i think that'll be important again this report's going to the account manager yes it's available from public but i think that it that'll be important particularly for the finance director to understand that we didn't a lot of the changes from year to year etc were not our changes they or deletions were not our deletions they came from yeah there weren't that many deletions submissions mostly there's error items that that were in the five-year prior five-year plan that we knew shouldn't have been in there because we heard from department heads either didn't need the request or it was mislabeled we oh that's a good point did we fix that we didn't did we fix that when we sent the cips to the department managers to fill out no and so like on the fire chief when he came in he had fixed the one description yeah a lot of it was description and shift and shifting and then there were three projects that weren't that were pulled out um that was the the one of the bms tie-ins that he had extra h michael fea had extra um hvac money and the two basketball hoops um and i know that from painstakingly lining up the projects next to each other and then there was a description description change great description change on one of them something much worse than it
ai can only go so far guys if you change the word next year it'll be fine no because when i'm done then i have to go back and fix it so that it works together together okay i i i hear you there and that's i agree with you that was uh and also i don't want to try to have to do the um changes in departmental work of us that was not that easy to automate okay good um brian on page bottom of page four is there a new finance committee guideline newer than the 2025 annual town meeting warrant well not that i'm aware of is are they planning on having one okay i was going to say it stays the same okay um i think i mentioned it at our last meeting in passing but we haven't discussed it i have two right two concerns you've raised them before one is free cash says one and a half two million and we're way over spending that um and the second is levy borrowing which is the one place that i would expect there to be some limitations driven by finance committee activities and planning so yeah i mean i think if we include this just make sure it it says what it says which is it's the last version and um maybe there's a recommendation somewhere that does we recommend that the finance committee review this and update as needed consider taking into account the recently approved financial policies that um i can't remember if they have any limits on i think they have some percentage limits and things which are the percent limits policy yeah but no that has not been discussed yet yeah and that table has cpa in it which we don't have any projects but i'm gonna keep moving um nitpicky thing under that table for the with the finance committee's guidelines i think those two notes shouldn't have bullets and should be because they're just footnotes to that chart the ones that start voters may and other potential i'm sorry you're saying take that those are asterisk footnotes they're the uh you can change the footnotes and make them real footnotes like numbered footnotes um but they don't need bullets they're like yeah yeah yeah yeah um and then this next section right below there the recommended capital plan should meet the above guidelines i have not done anything to try and assess that yeah that was just pulled that's yeah i don't know i i'll i'll i gotta get all the other stuff in there and then i can go back and see we made pretty broad statements to see if we can we can still make those statements or something similar
um another nitpicky in the cip current process paragraph at the bottom of the paragraph we say the following 15 fy can we say fiscal year oh yes yep and then on the next page the middle of the page do we want to talk at all here about the one ranking that's i pointed out that was backwards um yeah yeah provided suggestions will be considered in the next iteration i can put in there that's a little well or we don't have to i don't know i can i can put in there okay i'm skipping some of my dumber comments
so i put together the apparently i pasted it in backwards again um the table seven and table eight um which is just the fy 28 plan which page is page eight nines in there so i put those together brian my question for you do you remember what year we used the real estate fund for capital i just want to copy the wording for the bottom of the chart because we have
page 25 five that's me table 12 um five-year plan page 20 of the 2025 annual time meeting warrant 2025 warrant okay that's fine i don't know what we're gonna do next year it's like no it's nothing happened before i guess we won't know so it won't even that's one of the brian's would be on this right two minutes oh no brian gets excited time you get brian gets together i wean myself off the pin count it took like two months of me sending in comments on agendas and things and they finally are they're getting tired of it so and then they just and then they just beg you to go back out let's come back yeah it's also in the uh page 49 as well as long as you have this plan okay we all heard it right just he harasses us we just bring him back okay great that was one and then the other is just confirming that the article for the feasibility study does not go in that chart usually right it's separate because that's that's that's the summary chart that ends up being the one like the one that goes in the warrant yeah we're the same as last year we have above the line below the line okay
on that chart at the moment even though last year we included the cpc items you're you're leaning toward not including those and dealing with that in text well we didn't get any cpc items okay so the answer is no i think we have enough to do without maybe you could put appease me and put the line in it'll show zeros and put a drop a footnote on the table as of the date of this report no uh no oh yeah we usually don't show it in that table in that table if it rolls up under someone else anyway right because it's a separate article do we yeah if you look at the addendum last year the table 14
same thing we had kind of above the line that's that's the capital plan by funding source i mean it's in this table too wait a minute it's in this report so did you say capital stabilization or or in tables table 14 probably the last year's but then i'm number one but in this current report bridge and it's in here you can see it yeah it was 14 is in here it's not yeah i haven't changed yeah yeah i just pasted it in it says 400 every other all right in table 14 but it's not in table seven which is what right i'm looking at the old one i just believe it it's not it's not okay i wasn't all the way on team yet okay so when you get to 14 my suggestion if we don't want to put the numbers in just leave the line item and put a footnote there or something that just that's nothing because as a data report the committee had received no specific requests and we could go so far as to say last year we reflected 400 000 fiscal 28 fiscal 30 so okay just a thought so table nine is where we had done last year's compare of the current like one year by department i think we still want to do that right because that's different than reconciling and we don't need to revise this is this is reconciling and this is in your in your file that you sent right brian no so something along these lines doesn't have to be exactly in this format but so i'll look at how to put it in but if we put it up earlier i if depending on how it fits on the page put it might put it earlier um although what i'm thinking is the early table is going to be a comparison by year across all the years without the departments and then this one is going to be for fy28 by department yeah so blowing out a little bit more no revised requests the right one goes away thanks we won't need to say revised requests we'll just say um current current requests that was just to link it okay so the revised line rather than the current one or final request finally yeah oh no that's like tempting as of that's what i'm an awfully big dice i'd rather not thanks um anyway above that final okay um and then i'm i'm not gonna do table pen as what i'm gonna do is use something along that format for the earlier chart that we talked about
yeah saying how many additions removals i'm gonna use something similar to that okay sorry
and new requests so that's the biggest item okay yeah removals is short additions is big um craft and then 12 and 13 i will do once you send me the final arc in 13 the categories yeah where does it go it mostly is equipment sometime uh could be infrastructure you know have to again they were supposed to fill out the um yeah jps with what they thought the proper category was the pre-populated ones i think i took a stab at filling them in but and then they would were supposed to correct them probably equipment mostly then yeah yeah there was a couple i even that were filled in i'm like that's not the right answer like that we might have to go back in the second week um okay and then 14 this is where you were telling me to make sure i included cpc cpc as even if it's a blank line cpa yes it's community preservation act but it's the community preservation committee so funding funding is from the cpa funding i think i i don't see table 11 did i not put that in
uh i don't know no that was that was uh additional revisions since our original report yeah i don't think you need it i don't think you need it we'll need to renumber all the tables but you're doing an addendum you'll need it um right it's just from a procedure standpoint once this report's done life continues to go on department heads inevitably you're going to be talking to the town manager priorities might change between yeah and and again things aren't supposed to go to town meeting plus capital request unless they've been vetted through this committee right recommended that recommended they just need to be vetted so you'll just have to keep in touch with town manager to and our heads and just say hey any something what changes we need to see them otherwise there could be problems on town meeting floor yeah okay so brian you're going to send the new five years that we just adjusted again and i'm gonna yes those in there
uh and then we have our in advance list right so here as an example we talked about it never did get anything back from michael fair tom holder from the transfer station garage again i'd be inclined to leave the 450 in there um because that's that's the only number that we um we dealt with it's not in our plan so we're still saying it's being held in advance was even requested though anywhere yeah can we if we're going to do that i want to note and if we're going to do that for a fields or anything like that if you want to include them we can we can do it but we're going to say we didn't these were these were significant requests in the prior year that didn't appear that didn't come forward this year you know and we're noting it i think i like that approach better than adding yeah i'll give a pass to the hundred thousand dollars for the town managers field stuff but the rest of it
maybe we can ask town manager's boss if she wants to put in the request for the hundred thousand dollars a year is that question for me say that again we're just looking for someone to assure us that the town manager wants a hundred thousand dollars a year for field rehab they didn't request it i think for some reason or other did we vote that at town meeting brian a couple years ago that is not a specific number in an article and it was included in the last couple of five-year plans but it was actually in right and in the language says that it's for five years um i've seen it on charts do you need it we'll get it for you how's that sound wait he he's he's being a little yeah a little is this like no taking no laundry i mean we put it in carol a hundred thousand a year did we do it for four years or did you add for the fifth i can't remember i put it in okay so we went ahead and put it in for five years but it was not submitted right i got it okay duly noted yes maybe a break i don't know if it's a break that list into to the things big projects have been requested that didn't come about again this year or if it's footnoting them to see how the list looks so here i mean most of these are the town building items so when you add all these items up plus the ones that were in our five-year plan last year mostly roof there's also a couple other items they all add up more or less to 5.4 million but this category will pick up a couple more and lose one or two right so we already split this list sorry i just realized we split the list between things we didn't put in because we had outstanding questions and things that were we just didn't put in right that we didn't have that list will be a lot shorter yeah we didn't have anything that we knocked out right right okay so then that means 16 we shouldn't need right we shouldn't need 15 and not table 15 and not table 16 right yeah i have my merchant orders um i mean i guess the critical question is that um you know you know we need to we need to have the tables so that brad can draft intelligent comments that follow the table and we all can in turn review and edit um you know i'd be happy to attack the appendices um and try to get those in reasonable shape um a few of them might have tables that you know i know i did some of the tables last last year yeah you did table i did the one i'm happy to do the list i just put all the detail from that data set which i'm happy to get in a cleaned up form and just and you did pull it together and you know people are kelly's idea moving some stuff out of the administrative section into an appendix appendix i you know i can did you say leave the uh mission and charge in but take stuff out before that was that your um yeah before before the mission in charge like talking about who the committee members are and stuff like that i it's i could go either way i was just trying to get quicker to the like what are we doing here i thought we already yeah i thought we said yes to pushing that back anyway so again i'm happy to attack the appendices um which get those in pretty good shape um again some of which i did last year i mean there may be some kelly that you i did f you did e um you did yeah you did e i did f and you did g and i don't this is an old final i don't know which copy this is but i'm thinking i get them literally down to a camera did you do all those in pdf only or did you get them all into word uh i copy and paste i always copy and paste the pictures into word so that that that formatting doesn't get screwed up so you know i'll i'll pull all those together and again if i have an open question um you know kelly if you did f and then you just if i can't remember you sent me an excel file that had all your tables in it from the final report i i i guess would be the appendix f is probably in there yeah except f um let's talk about because i mean i sent you last year's i don't have the same file for this year i'm working for many because we we won't be doing actually what was that i mean what was that uh sorry you're ranking couple requests prior to your ranking um that i can pretty easily put together though because this is just department project ranking which we can decide how to do funding source amounts so this is really just a repeat of what goes in table seven with the ranking added to it the ranking last year was right sorted by highest to lowest departmental correct correct what i'm saying is i already have i already have all the columns except for the priority ranking in a file so i think i can just add and i i pulled that information into what i circulate as everybody by uh by project oh no i did i pulled the um i pulled i think i pulled the total yeah i pulled the total number of the five or six ranking items the total uh yes and that other file that you sent but again there were some aberrations where they you know some people put one in for every yeah i it's easy for me to grab it because it's i already have a formula that can just drag it down so i can grab that okay so f makes sense g g doesn't make sense just because we didn't we didn't do that that was our ranking right yeah i'm wondering if um do we just do instead of that format do we just do oh no we didn't ask for rankings right we didn't ask the the department heads for rankings for the out years some a certain overachiever gave us their rankings yeah but isn't this what we ranked it last year yeah but we did the high medium well but but it would be consistent with the other but we didn't ask them for the department has to rank anything other than the first year so there's really purpose of g we just don't have yeah any relevant to include yeah i mean last year we didn't have anything so it was important i don't think we need that anymore we wanted to evidence how we went to have this and so somewhere in the text is probably a reference to the pen x g that you'd have to with that rule yeah yes okay you might want to add some words around what we did instead which is right we started from the capital plan and we evaluated priority we did evaluate priority we just didn't like go through and sit here and rank them all yeah there were a handful of projects that we had to rely on the rankings to make a decision all right so the question is is today 23rd references right before table 10 at least it was hi when when do you think we'll have tables and again i'm i know theoretically it's easier for you to do them once you have time to do them because you have everything set up but we need to make forward progress so as i said i can go at some of the tables manually just to get them done um i've gotten like i said i've gotten a bunch of them done it was there were a bunch i had questions on um which we've answered if you can at least forward as you go back and then questions if you can at least the tables you know that are done if you can send those on to brad then at least you can wrap some text around those tables and then get that part of advance that you could get before the next meeting another draft out yeah if if you give me until saturday i can probably get you most of them yeah that's fine because i'll and i'll work on it over the weekend it's going to be yeah and i know you mentioned appendix e but i mean i can put that in there since appendix e the one that lists out all the open capital yeah it was just i think it just provided the detail as a yeah it's like project yes yeah do you want to yeah i'll update that and liz i was going to ask you know with the with your section on that you did on the uh project set done any other changes to make with that your version four included the ones i sent you last wednesday yes yeah yeah yeah yeah like it's good because you sent me red lines i accepted the red lines i mean the only thing is once we finalize table placement we'll still back and update you know table numbers yeah table numbers yeah right yeah um nothing else changed the table numbers will change with yours yeah you just have an x yeah i mean i i would suggest we do like a you know like sorry gold team review but like final review make sure everything like ticks and ties exactly you know you got that from i know right i couldn't even think of a good replacement word um but like but just you know to make sure that everything you know it's fully right line but now otherwise there's no major changes there unless anybody had any no no a long-term section that was going to be my last question um in terms of i mean i can put the narrative together on it i mean i jotted down discussion of the town building discussion of the schools discussion of i.t um what else do you think we should be commenting on in terms of long-term um long-term projects yeah i think if you look um the things you just mentioned but then if you look in the file with all of the cips there's a general tab general submission tab for each department some of them filled it out some of them didn't fire did yeah did no one else there was a couple that did i thought fire was the only one because i because i thought the virus was pretty comprehensive yeah um fire sent along the spreadsheet there was one more just submitted it later i thought oh linda hansen oh that's conservation but that was really just saying hey we need a tractor 10 years yeah um it was uh 10 years 6.8 million so i got that fire also sent us the spreadsheet that showed his equipment replacement out yeah that's a 10 year yeah he did i thought tom holder was had a similar that's what i thought i thought i remember seeing it but i remember me talking about it about it i don't know i'll check you may have said but on that i i wouldn't i wouldn't see getting into the detail other than the reference the fact that we collected initial beginning phases talk about the big projects on the like town building like what you just said like what are the big things that were building school buildings well i do want to emphasize that we because i know it's part of our charge i want to emphasize that we ask for the information yes as i said the um there was clear discussion about when is this committee going to get on with what some perceive it's our real committee's real value he was just focusing on long-term planning not focusing on what town manager and finance committee and now this committee are also doing um that's just because that's what the bylaw says we're doing right um so i think you know at least setting the stage that we're big we're beginning that collection process right can i answer that for the public it's very hard to think about long-term planning when you don't have your five-year plan that's even remotely solid right and i would point to how significant of a change there is in the five-year request right from last year's plan and same thing happened last year it's pretty hard to plan beyond five when you've got tens of millions of dollars of changes in the inside five years right many of them within one year right yeah i mean i think you're all going to have to decide how when you get into long-term planning how exactly are you thinking about doing that i agree you know setting it out on the spreadsheet saying this is what's going to happen may not make sense developing you know a bit more narrative and detail and talk about possible timing and possible cost i mean just on the schools i mean their cost band is you know 200 to 400 million dollars or something you know you know state aid not included plus all the repairs i mean that's building you know depending on the answer it's not a rough estimate of 22 to 25 million could be more um but as you start to get into quote the long-term planning aspect exactly how are you ultimately good one with the future process improvement section as well well i would add i think there's one very important piece of information that we can't even manage to get for the inside five years which is what are the funding constraints and we can sit here and pontificate about what the long-term plans should be but if you don't know how much money you have to spend or what you're at least planning to that's an effort in futility yeah i mean i think a good thing you just take the schools i mean we don't have assets really their school building if someone was able to literally just sit down and say okay we really don't know what's going to happen msb funding they're probably going to drive go no go on you know the two or three projects that they're looking at um they're spread out over 20 or 30 years in their plan um so it's really long term but even if you just then take the first one which could be within the most decade right kind of how things go msba taking the cost estimate that at least has been developed you know high level at the moment for the first project and say okay if we got x percent from msba and now i have the from y amount and we borrow that at x percent that would result in debt service of blip per year just having that number available and for decision makers be able to focus on that because it's going to dwarf anything else that agreed that we have this building if it ends up being whether it's this building or building somewhere else or retrofitting some other building if that's a 20 to 30 million dollar project won't be obviously nearly as big as a new school building at 200 million dollars but you know it could have consequential annual debt service you know coming on at some point uh so starting to quantify some of that information would be helpful and the finance director should be able to if you you know describe them what you're after but uh i think i mean i think what we're talking about is what is our future process improvements and now like i mean yeah carol i think you had a comment you had to raise your hand i did um i'm not so sure that mr hurler here characterized what occurred on this agenda item last night so i'd like to speak on behalf of the board and i actually did reach out to the chair prior to this agenda item being placed on the select board agenda to explain what we're going to have um this is a new committee board's excited about this they're looking forward to the long term we talked a lot last night about the process of that you're recommending to the town me at the town manager who then puts together a plan you know so they're all clear this is all new right um one thing that was said because i know i said it was yes the focus eventually will be long term but you can't look at years six through ten until you have a solid foundation in years one through five so that's just what i said and um i think that if you watch the tape you'll see that the board was um just gathering information i explained how you have the new form and it's very terrific because it's flags changes much more easily and a number of other things and anyway and like i said at the beginning of the meeting we have very very i'm personally very excited that this committee exists and the work you've done has exceeded my personal expectations so i thank you i will confirm that that is true what carol said about what carol feels i can't honestly say that i got the same that away get going from some of the other members but anyway i actually had a question carol um she goes to again this committee's charge uh and i can't find it offhand does anybody have the um cpc bylaw handy um it's um was in 2025 warrant brian i think it's page 68 because that's what i put in the packet so you have it it's gonna say i have it on the back of the report i just i do have that so i'm sorry so uh when i was reading that this morning um i just i read the following it says the capital plan shall be submitted to the town manager for consideration and approval on or before october 15th um for those of you that were on that committee um what did you intend by the words and approval of the town manager uh when we send that where where are you see approving our report section 20-3 which deals with when our report is due to the town manager the fourth fifth line the fourth line down so kelly and i are on that committee together i'll defer to her first because she is on your committee i don't i don't remember a specific discussion about approval yeah i thought i thought that was well no i i thought that was meant to signify the fact that it was not the final stop and that the town manager had final say like basically we weren't setting the capital plan we were making a recommendation and the town manager had the ability to approve right it's in that it's in brian you have to go now excuse me for hopping in here you have to go back to the town manager act now because it does say in there i'm going to find it but the town manager's response is the cfo and one of his responsibilities is to produce a capital an operating budget and a capital budget and then he submits that to the finance committee yeah so right i got all that i would just i just sorry robert waiting over here they're just questioning uh we we finished our report yeah like last year we finished our report we submitted it right beyond october 15th and ultimately what came out from the town manager so he considered our report presumably and then we get it we understand that he then came out with his own plan um so he did he disapprove our plan i don't know but by the way in the town manager act section six says he is the chief financial officer for the town and and then the subheaders c says the town manager shall draft and update a five-year capital improvement plan for all town departments for submission to the finance committee because in the end it is the finance committee that makes the recommendation to yeah i mean it separates them in 20-4 brian the committee's report and the town manager's recommended capital budget shall be made publicly available right it's it distinguishes those words just were a mystery to me because i i didn't yeah i it's i i sorry i i would have just dropped the words from the bottom just said for his consideration yeah and approval yeah maybe yes i don't think it was meant i don't ever remember a discussion of he needed to approve our report like he sent it but what or what like the back for yeah yeah i never yeah probably should have said review but it is a little consideration would have been sufficient anyway um you can add it to your list of capital bylaw of uh capital planning bylaws if if we still exist all right so um i was going to get the tables i'll uh work on the narratives i'll get the next draft sent up for the next meeting i would still encourage if you have any tables that are done before saturday and you can send them to brad i'll send you the appendix i will okay do you want me to do you want me to paste them in or do you want me to send you the table because this is the hard part is fear if i paste them in because to make sure they're yeah if you paste them in then i just accept them okay all right for the appendix says do you want me to send that separately because they're not currently in the report yeah i mean i can tackle them they do them as pbs yeah you make those as a separate document yeah yeah yeah you may go separate for now copy and paste it as a picture into oh yeah the same yeah if you wanted me to add it to save them the stuff if people are going to start adding their own dependencies into that other file i was going to add it into the word doc not yeah yeah either way yeah i think keeping them separate for now and then you know then we'll let's put it all together at the end and what i'll do is um when the table starts circulating i'll do a double check on the numbers that are appearing just to make sure like today i had to double check myself again and that's how i found one that i had mislabeled yeah but we can't how are we circulating i just want to be careful here we don't no we're gonna have another meeting next week right yeah you mean after next week yeah once you circulate the tables um well you can circulate the tables since we're talking about the tables okay so you could if you turn to brad you could just copy the rest of us on the table first iteration of the tables yeah i'll just review them and take some nice spot things i'll bring them to the next meeting well if kelly gets all the tables done by saturday i'll get a draft out i should be able to get one out by monday uh a redraft okay so i just i just you're gonna do it anyway i just i need time to actually check all the numbers so it comes out too late but if you send the if you do the tables by saturday and brian same time yeah that's it that's asap yeah yeah but it's because we talked about the tables what you're doing yeah that first version can much the same as brad can incorporate any edits that we talked about at this meeting he can and any new edits just don't go putting don't go putting it we should not put edits into the narrative that we haven't talked about no right so i can paste tables in but i that we talked about but don't paste in any narrative if there are additional edits on the text that people want to give to brad that we haven't talked about tonight you could do it but he just can't circulate that draft until we're in an open session that's my point is if i'm going to copy the committee it can only be with the things that we've talked about be oh you know i found a couple other nets i've got to send or other commentary that has to go solely to brad right and he can't circulate until the meeting i mean yeah if it falls in the bucket of administrative if you literally find that i i didn't mean like i i know i said that i didn't mean like typos at administrative i meant more like oh i put this chart in and here's a thought that no but yeah but if you're making a substantive change for the consideration of the committee that has to wait until well for things like discussion of long-term planning we've discussed that tonight so i can put that in that section and if you have your own additional thoughts that we weren't talking about tonight they're your thoughts you're now saying that administratively you're sending that advance me you just can't collect input after this meeting that's different from what we talked about tonight right put it in your draft and then send that draft out to everybody because that reflects things we haven't deliberated on in an open meeting right at least that's my understanding that's my understanding as well so okay this this might be a nip but for the open capital tax i did update so when i updated the section i did update it but you only sent it to brad only sent it to brad but it has since been circulated yeah but we discussed the change and i think that's live again but you did but they it was changes you guys had discussed at the last meeting what was it just updating it for the new numbers right so i mean i mean it sounds like it should be fine but this is where i don't want to no no you could ask and running down you just wait until the next meeting it's just we're running out of next meetings yeah no i don't think anybody's gonna be like i disagree with the numbers but it was just you know we didn't actually talk about it um other than yep it's been updated and we're putting in the new numbers and you know it reflected changes that were coming but beyond that yeah well it might be technical but like just when you're when you're sharing facts that we already like we've already we already had tables right yeah we've already talked about them and you're just putting them in a format to put them in the report that's those are facts versus pontification right well this is like the narrative that was not an acknowledgement by the way carol would like to sign off because this
no one told you you had to stay carol i'm sorry you decided you were in for the long haul i feel like i've had this conversation in my fourth meeting this week i'm gonna leave you okay all right good night thank you carol thank you so much okay all right should we move on in minutes yes yes are we good with there anything else okay my edits are i had an edit but we're gonna do three second bullet uh fiscal 29 and right under that it says number 17 250 that fiscal 29 should be fiscal 30.
all right
and then the other change i made on exhibit b
i just i used excluded debt and all the other tables and they for some reason put exempt debt next to the two million dollar item for the msba study so i would want to change that to excluded the consistent
any others okay kelly you said you had yes but i can't find it oh maybe you already said this at the top of page three maybe you just said this there was two things that looked very similar one was number 20 but i it says for fy 29 you agreed to include revised request for cyber security compliance number 20 and then the next bullet is cyber search yeah it was the wrong year should have been second one was fiscal okay is that what you just said yeah sorry i was too busy trying to find it glad you checked me any others okay can i have a motion to approve the minutes of september 16. so moved second second all in favor i approve four and five zero depends with five
next meeting is the 30th next wednesday 6 30. i do want to point out that um we did invite brian keveney and michael um to the meeting on october 14th uh so if they have any questions about the report uh i'm it's the 14th is that whatever that was the one right before yeah um he has to have yes if he could have a copy of the report prior to the meeting i said he could whatever draft we were working on um so just let everybody know that for that meeting they will be here um i had actually suggested brad i thought because if all goes well and the report is almost ready to be done i'm probably going to check off check off the committee uh around that time and so i thought it might give an opportunity beyond just previewing the report is to offload any parting comments about the process and i don't know when you're deciding to step aside kelly but it would be over at the same time anyway your comment now
all right so so uh so we have 9 30 and then we have um 10 7. we have basically two meetings to get this report pretty well down the road it's a heads up on the 14th i will not be able to support i'll be on travel yeah that's questionable at this point 30th and traveling 14th maybe seven of them good i think the key will be for those who can't be here is you do your best if you have credits to feed them into brad just so that we have them and he can tell us what they are yep okay um i think we're done for the evening it's been pretty productive um motion to adjourn motion to adjourn 9 13. 9 13. motion to adjourn i made it he said thank you recording stop
I will review the agenda. At 6.35, we'll have public comment and member's response. At 6.40, if voted on, we'll enter into executive session pursuant to Mass General Laws Chapter 30, Section 21A4, to discuss the deployment of security devices and strategies with respect, thereto, in connection with cybersecurity compliance and the protection of the town's information technology infrastructure. 7.10, return to open session, if we do go into executive session. 7.12, review and discuss departmental capital requests submitted this year, including outstanding capital projects. 7.55, discuss the revised draft of the CIPC report to time manager. 8.20, review and vote to approve minutes of September 16. 8.25, setting times for next meetings. 8.30, adjourn. 8.30, adjourn. 9.70, adjourn. 8.60, adjourn. executive session i'll give a brief summary and uh liz and brian you can help me out on this one ip nick has been asked for an additional 700 000 um in the i.t budget um and as i understand it um uh to make room for that in in part um nick faya has agreed to mike i'm sorry mike faye has agreed to uh defer the 700 000 in roof repairs um for this building uh to make room for for that additional request um i believe that the town manager is in favor of or is requesting or supporting the request um so i i nick we can't we can't have you uh go into any any particular detail but so far have i summarized things accurately right so i guess the first question i want to raise is given that what's on the table now do we feel that we need additional information from nick that we need to go into executive session or um are we comfortable with the request as is so that we do not need to go into executive session and liz you were here and um i know you had some thoughts saying the 700k is the first ask for a net 1.9 million and i guess the question was and this is where i don't know what we can can't say here but is the 1.9 sufficient or is that expected to grow and this just gets back to understanding with cyber security sometimes the initial rom estimate can grow to a multitude or a factor above and beyond what was previously thought sufficient so again it's just is the 1.9 good it's gonna it's gonna increase yeah and i've written up a document to kind of talk through why um where we're at the projects and why we are at risk and what remediation needs to be done yeah i'm uncomfortable continuing to discuss why don't we stay at a high level so uh that's what liz said last week at our meeting uh what i said last week at our meeting um was that i didn't feel i needed to get into that level of detail uh said differently i don't feel i have a need to know and i think given the um it's just my opinion given the um the sensitivity of talking about vulnerabilities um i think there should be a very tight circle of people that need to know that information one being the town manager if there's any committee in town that should need to know would be the select board um and on this committee while i would normally be right there saying you know if somebody's asking for 1.8 million dollars over five years i'd really like to know a bit more as to why that's justified etc but um in this one instance i just don't you know i'd rather not know i i take the fact that nick spoke with the town manager town manager felt strongly enough about it that he talked to mike about deferring at least the fiscal 28 component uh and in this instance i i would place my reliance on the town manager's judgment of whatever nick told him uh either leading up to the revised request or prior um so you know what i likely would do if a majority of the committee wants to know you know what's the justification which is this memo etc um you know i think the the exception for open meeting law going to executive session for the this type of security discussion is appropriate uh and i have no issue uh if this committee wanted to do that but i would likely vote no um to go into executive session i would likely sit out of the meeting because i just don't want to i don't want to burden myself with that knowledge and i'm not a lawyer but one of the things that concerns me is that when you go into executive session you need to keep minutes of that meeting and the minutes uh need to be sufficiently detailed uh such that when and if they were ever made public um somebody would know what discussion was in that meeting and the town has unfortunately bad experience of not having kept sufficiently detailed executive session minutes so i worry about um having having not kept sufficiently in the past the town had done an executive session a few times and not kept particularly good detailed minutes and had um open meeting law violations upheld um so what concerns me about that is that while minutes of this type of discussion for this type of issue quite likely could remain non-public for a pretty long time um because it's not likely it's unlike say a personnel issue that sort of is ongoing and then it eventually comes to the head and is done and you can release those minutes in this case what i worry about is if something happens on the id front uh and it results in say a data breach and we go i don't know if we're covered by insurance for cyber security issues but if we are insurance companies are always looking for ways to get out from having to pay up or if you know personal identifying information gets out and somebody or one or more people in the public decide to sue the town um i believe that these minutes of this discussion should we go into executive session should you go into executive session would likely be discoverable um and that may or may not be helpful to the town's case um uh and and i don't want to get subpoenaed either myself so for all those reasons um i don't want to suggest that the rest of you might not want or feel somehow this committee is um obligated to get to the bottom of this particular request sufficiently to say yay or nay and including it i'm comfortable knowing where this request came from that it's gone through the town manager and i think we can talk about it without going to executive session we just can't get into specifics about vulnerabilities etc etc or even possibly specific hardware software whatever type of you know security protocols um that's all got to be done you know inside executive session so i think we just have would have to be just thoughtful of that careful about that if we wanted to you know talk at a high level about you know the dollar so that's my steel i'm sticking to it i mean can you talk about dollar amounts without or is that considered sensitive we can talk about the budget the budget you can't get in you can't get into you're not going to be able to get into what the dollars are paying for specifically right because then that starts to go down the road of what we have this hole we buy this we need to hire this firm to plug that hole sure i mean i know we the 1.9 was public and i know you said it's growing and that isn't changing right you can still talk about the total dollar amount i i should say i i see the town manager is on i don't know if he has any any thoughts or comments on what we can or cannot talk about but or whether he's without going into executive without going into executive session yeah maybe maybe before you do that maybe just given and i don't know if you two watched the meeting from last week or i read the minutes or you just heard all the back and forth you're worried if you can just express whether you feel a need to get deeper into the detail if you don't then so i i don't need to get deeper into the detail as long as my concern is plain and simple is making sure we've got as good a number in the plan for what's needed right as we possibly can i don't need to get it down into the detail quite frankly i it's not that i'm afraid of knowing it's that um i'm not going to understand that to the level that would be necessary anyway so i don't necessarily need executive session the other thing i would say from an executive session standpoint um outside of being subpoenaed or those those minutes being public uh intentionally is um those minutes being public unintentionally so someone has to write those minutes right and that still has its own i would prefer that that not be in print on anyone's computer um so yeah i mean that's that's me yeah i mean executive session minutes and i've kept them myself and and i was on a search committee and so that stayed you know um non-public until the process was over so you know there's there's ways you have to handle the minutes in terms of yes that they're on computers and getting circulated and you mark them confidential but yeah if it's on your computer um you know who knows what might happen to it if you don't want medical if it's if there's a vulnerability and we're using yeah no absolutely like that's all connected so i would prefer not to i don't need to know what i need to know is the same thing that we said to you nick when we sent you back to go right look at it is have idea have what you need right such that it's not a question of well hey i needed this but i didn't ask for it or hey i needed this but there wasn't any budget for it right that's that's all i'm concerned with and so if the cost and i want to just clarify cost going up meaning beyond what you already have in the plan for that five-year period yes and and the reason we don't know that is because we haven't fully flushed it yet or because we haven't built in escalators just give me a sense of sure and when when would we know that like for next year's plan um it is dependent on the the work we're currently doing okay it's an iterative process so i got it i got it so you it's discovery followed by um implementation of discovery so after a year so you're comfortable enough with fiscal 28 to ask it's the following four years that are kind of placeholders yeah i i i think amount but yeah and i understand um i understand your um what you're talking about as far as getting into details um the the purpose of my coming tonight was to paint a picture okay of our uh environment to help you understand why i'm requesting this money and why i continue to grow that would have to be an example yeah i'm not sure we want to go there yeah no i know we can't go unless unless we vote to go in i don't can't go to an open session um you know i personally draw an inference from the fact that nick showed up the first time with a much different and much smaller request and obviously for those that attended town meeting or watched it you heard nick uh go up to the edge of some of this discussion and talk about when asked that on how many floor how much would you need to deal with the issues you had and my recollection is you said a million and a half something uh in the front of you know 200 people um you don't ask for that kind of money if everything's perfectly fine i guess is my view as to what's not exactly perfectly fine um you know having worked you know been responsible for it in a couple of my last jobs not an it expert i have no doubt i would understand what nick was talking about but the mere fact that he's now asking for that after we send him back to rethink it and he's talked to the town manager and there's implicit support from the town manager but to your point kelly and was it may be that maybe fiscal 28 numbers a good number but absent to us saying okay nick if 300 a year for the next four years after that isn't good enough you know do we want to stick in a bigger number now or is it just you come back in a year and if this is an iterative process maybe a year from now nick has a different view on yeah there's a lot more maybe we don't need this much because i don't want to make up and make up a number right at this point i think i i'm uncomfortable with the answer i've got some work to do and then we'll have a better number um hopefully that's in time for you know whether that's before town meeting or that's next um cycle yeah i mean comfortable with yeah certainly nick can and i assume will continue to be talking directly with the town manager his boss and town manager can ask put in you know his his recommended capital budget to the finance committee whatever he thinks he needs is appropriate the capital plan so for our purposes if this is the information we have and people are not uncomfortable including the dollars which we've fit in last week at least we can talk about that in open session as to how the other two of you feel about how we fit it in but uh but if the town manager's budget all of a sudden comes in with a higher number i assume the town manager will have to have the same the same conversation with the finance committee i don't envision as a finance committee member uh providing my fellow finance committee members to go into executive session but they're going to be in the same position they're going to be receiving a report from us they're going to be receiving a document from town manager all of it's going to have some pretty interesting numbers related to it there may be several members on the fans to me that want to know and i'll probably have the same comment to them at that time as to where i'm coming from again even as a fans can be member i don't think i need to know the details um so one follow-up question so have you already revised the 1.9 or do you just know that it's changing in the future i know that that is not a that's a current number okay based on oh actually i have this new number for you that you know broken out by a fiscal year yeah i don't um there are a couple of factors here one is um i have funds to address things in 27 and 28 from a capital perspective that is going to put in a capital plant the funds that you've submitted to us or you have other funds you know the capital funds that i've submitted here yeah um i there are two factors here um from an i.t perspective the first one is needs it's a constantly changing environment we have lots of challenges um and those challenges are some of them are new some of them are not new um and in addition to that uh costs for it equipment is skyrocketing right especially with uh iran war um you know the device that i increased the costs on i initially had used a quote that i had from 2025 and put an increase in there a 10 15 increase i didn't cut it it was 127 and uh 247 or you know i don't remember the exact numbers but the increase was astronomical so um you know i i'd like to sit here and say this is a firm number but i can't do that no and i understand and this is where we're not unique this is happening across the board which is why i was like do we think that the 1.9 is good is it sufficient or so i think it's the best we have today is what it sounds like we know it's going to change in the future but today we just know that's i guess something to look forward to next year yeah yeah get to have any conversation again you're going to be so excited the thing i would be interested in would be um and i'm not saying you haven't done this because you're still you're a year at the time year and um you know that that because it is so constantly changing for good and bad right um the question i always ask my it directors is you know you know is this the most cost effective way and is this going to last for a year we're going to have to redo everything a year from now and i just want to make sure that while it's feeling like what you've now asked for is at least allowing you to target and i think we asked that the first time we met with nick you know when you come back at least have done your work so that you can in your own mind prioritize what's the most important however important is to find in my own mind i know what i think i would define as most important that you can take care of that you know sooner than later type of thing but i'd like to know that you know you're constantly looking for you know cheaper ways to do the same thing um cloud solutions um you know i think you mentioned there's uh state grants from time to time and can help communities you know address some of this stuff it's going to be mine right it's making sure that we've absolutely extracted any and all funds available to to do it outside of but it's it's really and it's not i mean the issue the issue is not that these issues that need to be dealt with haven't existed for some period of time it's just that whatever the reason they haven't been brought forward from a financial perspective and that is kind of the domain of this committee as one gets into longer term planning which came up as a subject in the select board discussion uh on monday night this committee you know really this is a prime example of over a longer period of time what what what can one expect in i.t um yeah infrastructure you know to need in a community like whalen and the other thing i would say because this came up from one public comment we got like the first time we met with nick um um i think we we referenced it infrastructure and and the public comment was you know we also need to concern about other infrastructure like the water infrastructure because there have been a number of the hacks into localized water systems around the country uh with not you know great great great uh anticipation of that and and so i don't know beyond the it infrastructure and water if you've looked at anything else in town that somehow has a you know a technological potential technological um vulnerability into it but i think again that would all of that seems to me to be part of a longer term plan and and you know right now we're just trying to put something on a piece of paper that gets it on everybody's radar screen this is going to get more airtime at town meeting i think based on last year's conversation and these numbers are going to jump out of people um and and can i jump in at some point yeah and i just i think i think i think i think the select board you know need to elevate this to their level i know carol's joined us um support needs to elevate if we're talking about these type of dollars that could go up and there are issues that we don't want to get into the details that's what we decide i would think the select board's got to be having that same conversation because um at some point some board or committee that you know in town needs to understand what what this is or wait for bad things to happen right anyway right back to you michael so a couple of points here i i know you had asked i don't disagree with uh brian o'herley he's uh analysis i mean the the main reason nick and i thought about the executive session is we wanted to convey that this is something we didn't want to be discussing for obvious reasons and i i think you're aware of that and and i'm glad you appreciate that um you know i i hired nick because he was outstanding at what he did he came from the state um and i have a technology background that's what i did before i i transitioned into municipal government um and i can tell you that we have engaged quite a lot of third parties to evaluate and assess what we're doing we've involved the commonwealth's executive office of technologies uh services and in security um the and all you have to do is turn on the tv to look at the the pace at which technology and ai is growing you see there's been several other uh municipalities in the commonwealth in the last month that have had issues and what we're trying to do is stay out ahead of this and i know you would uh at least uh brad carver uh the chair had asked me you know to um you know kind of prioritize what we want to do so i did have a meeting with nick and uh michael separately and talk to him about our priorities and what we feel we should uh where we should direct the dollars and michael faye agreed that we should direct them towards our it infrastructure at this point and as nick was saying you know the other thing driving this is these data centers everybody's has a quest to get chips and servers and that's driving up a lot of the costs because i meet with nick weekly and we talk about this and probably every other day i go up there for something else we have a lot of educated citizens here who have volunteered a lot of thoughts on what we're doing i to the point you would uh raised i talk to don mallette over at dpw who runs the water regularly about these things you know there's lots of stories we've seen them on 60 minutes so we're trying to be proactive here and as i said nick uh was in charge of a lot of uh i.t infrastructure for the state and i've his explanations have satisfied me that we need to be directing more dollars than we have in the past to ensure that we are uh prepared and can ward off you know everything we can do and that includes not just i just want to assure you we are constantly running you know um just training for our folks and doing things to make sure people understand you know basic things like phishing scams and all these other things there's so much more that we're doing internally to to try and protect our protected information of not only our employees our citizens um and to uh prevent any type of unwanted third party from trying to get onto our system so uh that that was how this was all born about and um as i said i meet regularly with nick and mike fay about a lot of the things going on and we just felt that we had to um given what's going on these days across the the state the country the globe we had to make some significant investments to stay ahead of the curve i hope nick that captures what you think we've been talking about but uh we do meet on a regular basis about these things yeah uh john do you have any thoughts comments no i mean yes but there's nothing that will add anything of value at this point so i mean i think right in our report it's just going to be we're essentially taking this for what it is right and just pushing the value forward based on the assessment of town office right i mean that's yeah yeah so i guess i guess the the the first question is do we go into executive session do we need to vote yeah i think i think well it's on the agenda so i think we probably should vote whether we do or do not go into executive you don't need to do that you don't need to you don't know we're going if no one makes a motion you're the only one who can make the motion is to go into executive session okay all right well if the sense is and i agree with everybody else i don't i don't think we need to so if that's the case then we will not go into executive session i think as long as we're clear in our report that you know we're not actually evaluating the details we're i think i'm comfortable with it and just i'm going to say we know this is going to continue to grow fast yeah yeah i mean a lot of all other statements i'm just saying like i think we just need to be clear that we're not we're not going to be privy to the details it's pushed upwards and it just gets back to if you have you know set budgets per year it's trying to make sure you're managing to that total budget so if you have some a variable that's not quite firm how does that impact other things that were right how are you going to reprioritize like yes do you do you already have the and this isn't for you nick but right to the town manager right like you have the conversation with with michael fea right what are the things will we lay out the plan that we think can move and getting ahead of that as well like knowing where where that might come from right because we don't want to be in a situation where surprise we've got more and you and you're not sure where to take it from but advocating that that at least in this regard that perhaps this committee hear from nick if off cycle before the next round of cips nick thinks that if the numbers are known to be changing versus like i i feel like you know nick you're at the i think it's going to be more for all sorts of reasons but we've got to do some discovery yet if you get to that further on in the discovery before the next cycle i think it's it's prudent to be talking about that and figuring out right earlier rather than later what's going to move in in the plan going forward i would rather not be having that discussion if well if i were on this committee which i won't be um i would rather you guys not be having that discussion right as we're leading into a report next year here's a reality yeah something else i'll have to give so we need yeah and i think it's i mean it's a minor point but in the report uh at least we've suggested to include a long-term planning section into which we might in our discussion about this building we might fit the discussion about the long-term building plans for the schools i view this it area as another going to be a long-term item and maybe that's where we corral the discussion and maybe it's in there where you add a sentence you know you're referring to it you know we chose not to get into the details but we understand this is going to be a long-term position and we are encouraging that um as things evolve that nick not wait to the next cfp cycle so something that affected and that long-term planning sections to become more of your guys discussion um going forward once we finish the one-year five-year work um kind of the following six months probably will be dedicated to more in the long term so okay well i think with with that um i think you're done well i have oh i'm sorry i have a few more questions oh i'm sorry not specific for that if i can of course of course so uh in your revised cips most of which were the same ones you submitted initially although some of the numbers changed you go back and look at your cip number one and number two um the the i go on number one is cyber security whatever whatever and the detailed description embedded in that cip continues to refer to the video monitoring and then the second one has its title the public safety communications and the detail description continues to have the cyber security description so i believe i convinced myself that number one is really intended the money you have there is intended for cyber security related stuff in addition to number 11 which is the large request and number two is the public state communications but i wanted you to either confirm that tonight or go back and look at the descriptions change them the detailed descriptions change them so they're right and then send those back in so we know we have it we don't run afoul of what happened last year does that make sense to you it does and that was a question that i had um tonight was to ask what is the best way to update that we leave it as resubmit that file that you sent with the with your revised numbers right each one of those cips make sure the title and the description are exactly what they are with you know whatever you don't have to obviously um talk about vulnerabilities but just make sure that the description meets the product matches the project and that the title is representative of of what the project is that's two reasons the title is what's going to end up on the list of projects being you know summarized and the description is going to end up in that box right um to to give the fuller description so let's make sure that they're at least start right keep control what they where they where they end up although i'm pretty sure they'll get proof read better this year um yeah because what happened at the town meeting was i was prepared to talk about what what was what the actual projects that you were requesting and then right and then i kept getting redirected and so i asked for uh a copy of the warrant so i could go back and look to see what the description was and it wasn't when i yeah submitted so um it related this committee didn't didn't yeah no i'm not yeah it's just that was the situation if number one cf number one is in fact for cyber security related stuff um i used to work stuff um um without getting the word if it would be useful to know that there's a difference between number one and number 11. yeah because number 11 also references cyber security compliance uh and if it's ultimately they're all part of the same thing if if in resubmitting when you go back to look at those detailed descriptions you could for example decide well i'm just going to roll number one into number 11 and just change the numbers or not they may be sufficiently different that you want to keep them separate so you don't need to address that type but it sounds like you're going to have to go back and double check those um the second thing i want to talk about uh so as to the issue we had in the warrant last year when we met with the first time um i think your notes indicated that you finally would come up with about 150 000 worth of video monitoring stuff but there were still discussions to be had and protocols and procedures etc but that that particular line item it was number five in the capital budget uh was in the amount of 250 000 so we had some hopeful hopefulness that you would come back and say okay i don't need 100 000 of that 250 am i did i read your email correctly that you want to hang on to that 100 because you think you might need it for more video stuff and if so you also have a video another video request i think in the in your cip's number six maybe um yeah i don't remember off the top of my head you distinguish um why you think you you can't turn back that that excess yeah maybe you could address that now i can address that now um we we're pretty much all set with cameras here and in the town buildings we don't have cameras in the schools we do have a few cameras but that is up for discussion i'm working on a policy it's currently in review part of that review is um it will need to go to the select board it will need to go to the um school committee um for a review and then there'll be a process in which we identify how and where cameras will be placed okay so at this point in time i don't have a handle on how many cameras and what that cost will look like so the the reason i'm asking to hold on to it is because i'm anticipating that within the next year we're going to have this size this uh camera uh policy in place and we're starting to make decisions about when and where cameras will be placed does that make sense okay so yeah depending on the outcome of that you may end up having excess funds there it's possible good turn back yeah but but not right at the moment yeah i i i can't commit to releasing those um my last follow-up question was in your email uh the camera was to the group or i had a individual exchange with you um you responded to our question about the useful life of the pc laptop replacements and uh you brian kevin and i brian kevin the rest of you sent me a email asking uh why we were including the pc laptops in our capital plan um brian asked that brian kevin he did and i responded that we had asked that question we had since heard from nick that he felt that whatever he was intending to play replace with those amounts of money would be used for more than five years and um and again understanding useful life for gap purposes accounting purposes is different there's a different animal than i think for my view for capital planning is it's going to be around for more than five years and being used um so uh nick had responded to that um i haven't heard then back from brian i asked him you know how had he made that decision in the past because he was again he was asking the same question we had asked this doesn't belong in the operating budget and so i'm still comfortable based on nick's um follow-up input to us that if he believes that those would be used for more than five years that they're properly included in the capital plan but again um that's where we ended up after the last meeting but we uh we left that open knowing you were going to be here tonight and kelly and john weren't here last week uh now's the time to if anybody's concerned about them being the capital budget i i read through everything while i was out and so i i'm comfortable with that response i'm also comfortable based on personal experience um that the the gap um useful life is could be extended based on the fact that everybody has chip shortages and the costs are up so high so i and i agree with you that's not what matters to me here in terms of a capital plan matters to me physically how long are we are we actually planning to use them and so if our history is already that we use longer than five years um and i understood your answer right basically it's a you use it until it starts giving you problems and then right and then we deal with it i'm comfortable with it in the capital plan great and hopefully brian kevinny will be as well and i'll leave that to you nick to follow back up with brian because again we where we can avoid um variances between what we recommend and what he ultimately thinks is the right answer from his perspective um so i'm happy he reached out so he's when he looked at our whether he was looking at our minutes from the last meeting or what he was looking at i'm not sure but i'm happy he reached out and hopefully he was satisfied with your your response but if you could just double check with him um i do have one other follow-up question so those are online those those are all staff and faculty laptops right not the student lap not the student devices those are separate and those are on lease yeah these devices are just for town yeah and they're on lease so they're they're they're they're on yeah purchase right okay that's why it's different okay so the student homes are in the operating budget i'm sorry the student devices are in the operating budget the student devices are in the school budget yeah in the operating budget okay all right anybody else based on the next revised um items which i plugged into the spreadsheet that we've used to analyze this stuff based on our last meeting were there any other questions that john you or kelly had my only other question was because you've covered most of mine brian um was you mentioned somewhere and i may have just misread it data center funds did you mean the data center center funds that you have a project requested for or did you mean funds like um i know some data centers are providing um grant funds yeah the data center is for um system replacement our data center our days i just wanted i just want to make sure i was pretty sure i misread it i was just making sure there wasn't some um expectation that a part of a project was going to be funded with outside funds that aren't considered here yeah and then um the state is adding different programs different grant programs you know i'm seeing things about every six to nine months um and i'm taking advantage of those as quickly as i can the struggle the struggle that i have is you know i applied for three grants and they said well you can only do one at a time and one's taken almost four months do those typically require um a commitment of of matching funding of any kind from the town they're all they're all like you apply and then you can use it to do the the project yeah the way they've worked today and my experience is um i applied for the um the services and then the state sets us up with a vendor who will do the work so we actually don't get you don't get the invoice yeah we don't get an invoice so that is all managed by the state okay i'm asking because at least at some point when the capital bylaw was put together which i don't think is actually what's happening in practice right the intent when we were when we were in the working group putting that together was to make sure all capital projects were in the plan and if they had outside sources of funding that was identified and that way there was a comprehensive view of everything that was going on i feel a little bit differently about projects that can be completely fun the reason we we did that is because um a lot of times it's like uh an msba funding project the town has to approve it and then get the the funding against it or cpa cpc has to approve it so i feel a little bit differently about projects where throughout the year outside of the capital cycle um you can apply and and get a project completely funded but i wanted to raise it for the rest of the committee in case you feel differently yeah there's no commitment from our standpoint i mean if there's a significant resource requirement from the town to implement it i'd probably disagree like if we have to put our own labor to support that yeah the reason for part of the reason for putting it in the plan was also so that from a resource internal resource standpoint there was good view into well you asked for these 10 projects but you actually have six other projects right going on with other funds and we don't have a full view into it um but it's a little bit harder in my mind to say to nick hey put these projects in that you haven't applied for that a grant hasn't been posted for yet and meanwhile a month or two later something gets posted like he he's not going to come back to us like in the in the interim right to be able to apply we don't want him we don't want to delay that so agreed yeah yeah i mean again where the work's being done by a third party i mean no you know if it's only your time no offense then but if it's like a bigger you know we're more what about like 10 people from facilities are involved that's a different conversation i think yeah i'm clear would these be projects that aren't otherwise projects that you feel have to get done and therefore need should be in the plan and should be funded and if a grant says we'll we'll give you money if you do one of these and it's not something you were planning to do that's the kind of thing i think you're talking i think it could be i think it could be either but the ones that he's planning to do are already in the plan i still want him to go look for funds to wait to get the money he knows he wants to do it it should be in the plan right if it's a priority um if it's not a priority and it's a matter of well if a grant comes along and i apply for it and get it we you know take advantage of it yeah that's fine but if it's a priority it should be in the plan and then we should still go seek you know any available funds
yeah just just to give you a sense of the grants that i've received this is the paperwork for all of the cyber security audits um from third-party vendors through the state grants so i am able to utilize those grants as they are become available to do you know um significant amount of work these audits are not um we will just run something these are a couple weeks worth of work yeah a couple months i'm sorry we appreciate it so can i ask one question to follow on to your first question brian um so for the cyber security remediation um if there are changes through that down the road or do those go in as separate um projects or do i modify so if i know that's something i'm planning to do something let's say in 30 30 um do i update the uh budget do i update the request that's already been submitted and added into year 30 even though we're talking about 28 or does that go into a separate uh ask so the way we set up the forms is if if it's that's like cyber security where you're sort of staging the work off of one of one project but you're going to request funds one town meeting at a time right so we only when we go to town meeting we put the plan and finance committee puts the plan in front of them but they're really only approving at town meeting year one right so just because you put amounts in the out years doesn't mean those are going to get added to your to your capital budget but you can certainly on the request form you have to create five right five separate tabs for the same like hey this is ongoing cyber security so for example roads epw that's all on one tab right with all their amounts because it's the same type of work that can happen every year it's not you know five uh five different school buildings it's it's the same type of work that's going to happen okay just so i'm clear on that so i think kelly what you're saying is if currently in your form that you submitted uh in year 2030 you you've got a hundred thousand in there if you discover next year that it's now going to be 150 i think he should put in 150 you should change it to 100 because you're going to fill out the same form again um so if the amount is increased you don't submit a a new request but you just bump up that amount yeah and when like when we get to next year's cycle the same way we did this year we gave you guys pre-populated what was in the plan we're going to do that same i assume the committee is going to do the same thing ideally they're going to send you back like hey this is what was approved right at town meeting and you're going to go through and be like nope right i got to add this here and you can just update it you don't need to add another tab if it's the same type of project work similar to what brian um said about if the two cyber things are really kind of the same thing just put it in one line don't and on one tab don't don't have it as separate because that's going to cause confusion at town meeting yeah yeah yeah it's only for the different projects they should be i mean it's pretty straightforward which is what again assuming that your cip number one is in fact cyber security remediation modernization you have 150 000 fiscal 28 and you have 150 000 in 2031 so it's two different years same form assuming you think it's better to keep that cip separate and not roll it into 11 that's fine but i think your question is if two months from now you say geez i decided i need really need another sum of money in 2030 or i want to move the 150 from 2031 to 2030 talking with the town manager when they do their capital plan you know i assume you could just take the cip you submitted and brass and you did that with the final replacement your initial request had it was 250 000 2032 when you resubmitted you used the same form and then you moved it from 2030 to 2031 and increase the amount in the 50 000 so the goal is to make it as efficient for you okay so when these out you know great thank you yeah i guess the only is um so you're going to be resubmitting some of the forms if you could do that sooner than later then it's good because we have a report due on the 15th so okay yeah that'd be helpful in certain
great um since carol joined us uh you want to see a chance if she has anything to add to the discussion we just had yeah thank you yeah uh carol do you have anything else to add or contribute or any thoughts uh carol martin lake road remember the select board um i actually was in the other link the executive session link waiting for you to come so sorry i was late um i don't really understand what the question is to add to so okay you were listening to us i just wanted to give you the courtesy if you had anything you wanted to ask or add um i'll be happy to add that i think you're doing a terrific job thank you yeah i think carol is just me speaking the others can speak for themselves i i do think um based on this discussion what the discussion occurred at town meeting the select board might want to consider how you want to get yourselves involved in this question now i i you may be i don't i don't see that you are publicly i haven't seen any agenda so uh anyway that's that's what you do for a living but uh i as a resident would like to know that the the top board in town is uh is taking an interest in this particular matter particular matter meaning the capital uh it
it and other infrastructure security okay all right i will consult with mr mccall next week when we worked on our agendas and see what he has to say about this he's looking at me now no no i i think people need to know that like the chair and i talk regularly and and i do share a lot of updates with the board in between our our you know every two week meetings so um we we do our best to communicate and share anything that comes up and you know i let them know often about plans uh we we talk a lot about it at our meetings but sometimes things come up before then so i make them aware of what we're doing i will say last year excuse me i'm sorry yeah i assume you do that in compliance with the open meeting yes yes i do i i never talk to more than two at a time and i don't talk serially it's usually the chair and vice chair who know anything that happens in between the meeting so last year i think we had um ms lapin came before the select board to present the report even that as it was submitted to the finance committee and um mr carver and i have spoken about this and i think we're going to have another conversation in a couple weeks as to when would like to come in and speak with us um and if there's anything in particular that you want us to know at that time maybe that would be a good time to bring it up does that work yeah yeah that makes sense that makes good sense oh that makes sense i'm done thank you thank you all right thank you thank you all set thanks very much thank you thanks for coming i appreciate it i appreciate your time forward to hearing from you on your operating budget information you sent me when you come before the the picture of the people looking forward to it brian i'm going to be exiting as well i have to other things thank you folks of course yeah thank you thank you very much for the guidance thank you thank you calling that point out of order brian since i'm here in for a penny in for a pound i'll stick around with you you know the pc laptop question was a capital operating budget question so that was the nexus part of the email exchange but yes there are other things that you're not interested in well you are president but i am interested i'm just not a part of it anyhow so we have minutes out of discussion at 7 25 that's far off okay our next agenda item is to review and discuss the departmental capital requests submitted this year um and i think that that to a degree is going to roll into a discussion of the uh draft report um so i think maybe maybe a good place to start is going over um what we reviewed last week and because we moved some things around and if there are any questions or comments on that uh you guys agree that that's probably a good place to pick up the conversation um i'm going to start with one that's not has doesn't have to do with what you've moved around but it's continuing partially on the comment i made a minute ago about um cpc projects we had no field submitted other than the high school field and we we added i know the town manager already left but we added the hundred thousand dollars to the town manager um budget for each year for which is i believe being used for sort of field upgrades minor field upgrades um we put that in even though that wasn't submitted but there were no other fields or playgrounds um submitted and i i guess i wanted to raise before we're finalizing this report um that that makes sense that there weren't any um because this has been a pretty hot topic in town over the last few years not not super just recently but it has yeah i don't have it with me but um and i don't want to bog down the meaning but my recollection was last year there was a request for a field somewhere don't remember it was at the middle school or somewhere else that it was out and it was out in the one year beyond our our five-year plan and i thought there was there was an ask for a little bit of design money which we couldn't include because we pushed a number of things out so we might at least we could a reach out directly to the recreation director um um or b we could look at least at last year's um last year's summary where we had things that were out in 2032 that weren't yet includable in the plan and see which field that was and be more specific uh and the other thing that was missing um which you brought up at an earlier meeting which i think we could just plug in just because it's it's it's in their stated um plan of uh rehabilitating uh playgrounds that they go to the cpc every other year looking for four hundred thousand dollars and last year we had slotted in in our recommendation fiscal 28 400 000 and fiscal 30 400 000. um i have a copy i found a copy of the plan so i know which playgrounds and they've moved some of them around um but um i know it's not our job to put things in the plan but it's it's not the reason i'm yeah i understand that the reason i'm raising it is because it's been a ongoing problem ear rear and i'm not sure where the disconnect is so yeah we can go throw it in but i'm not sure where the disconnect is right the request went out to everybody i know that there's things like playgrounds and things that are on at least recreations plan to want to do so what's the myth what's i'm getting at with what's the missing link why why are those not getting submitted right and is it because while there wasn't any approved in the five five years fine okay why isn't there anything in the lat in the in the new year we just added so i i don't feel strongly we have to put it in because it wasn't submitted i'm more i don't know if we put a comment in that nothing was submitted right for those and just leave it at that um but i'm not looking to go chase it i i just it's much or makes a huge difference for 2032 for us to chase it at this point i would agree but it's not just a 32 because it like is as as brian was saying like there's a plan to go ask cp um three playgrounds for three playgrounds and those aren't in here so we think that's just driven by the fact that the whole school assessment is ongoing they've just kind of stopped no i think it's the flow it's the question of where you know michael fay included in the past in his submission some recreation but he took them out there were there were a couple of basketball hoops for 50 000 apiece right we're in the plan that we sent the approved plan that came out yeah and unfortunately that happened when both of us were on the finance committee recreation actually did submit some things and the finance director just took them out right so that's that's why i'm sensitive to it and i'm afraid we're going to issue yet another report that says there's no field fields in it and not even a consideration it's one thing if they ask for it and we don't recommend it but it's another thing to be like it's not even it's not even requested yeah i'll go who does that go to who would who does that who makes it right now is her last name catherine brenna's rack but technically i think they're supposed to get submitted by facilities um i think this this goes back to my diatribe earlier in the year about who owns the the submission of of that projects so we we could send an email out to michael pay at copying catherine brenna uh last chance haven't seen anything on playgrounds fields basketball hoops said anything any or other recreation projects i mean i can go find what i thought it was another field out beyond our five-year window last year just uh rather just the only thing i find a little odd about it is well two things one um if if they don't make the request like you said i'm not sure we should go fishing for the second is sending another email to mike and he's been very very responsive but he just took a seven hundred thousand dollar hit and now we're asking him to now does he does he want money for no no i'm not i'm not asking i'm asking i'm not asking to add it i'm asking process wise because this has happened carol can vouch for this right there have been multiple years where there's outrage that we haven't invested in fields and then it's like well nothing was submitted in the capital plan i think i personally got yelled at in a finance committee meeting by another member of the finance committee for not have it or no member of the select board for not having fields in the plan so i'm just raising the issue because the reason they're not in there is because no one asked for them it wasn't a matter of we tossed them we might have but they're not being asked for so i don't what i don't want to happen is an article pops up right and this happened several years in a row because it didn't get addressed so so maybe it's more hey we're confirming nothing was submitted right instead of fishing we're just confirming hey we didn't receive anything yes sorry carol go ahead carol thank you all right mr chair chair has to recognize you sorry exactly i'm saying mr chair thank you for recognizing me i hope you are uh maybe i can help a little bit here you're correct there was a five hundred thousand dollars for design money for submitted for the route 20 south landfill and part of that that's two projects one is the laid materials materials i call it laid down but it's materials storage maybe uh possibly putting the school buses and then a field with no lighting at the old route 27 i believe that has been moved not and not and not in the plan so there was that submitted that was one field okay but that was that was submitted by dpw not by rec or facility right but it was submitted the dpw with it's three it's three groups you turn it down a little bit thank you it's three groups it's the select board is supporting the field it's uh it's um the schools for the school buses and it was tpw for that and mr holder put it through he was on that committee whether that's the correct person to submit and i believe that has now i think i heard you say then uh not supported the playgrounds is an interesting one and i would suggest somebody perhaps mr or hurley here speaks to mr keveney because when the cpc gretchen schule was the chair then they redid their plan i think they do their plan like not what every five years maybe every 10 maybe five and in there they agreed that part of what they would do is to support a playground every other year i think there were 12 or 13 so it's on a 26 28 perhaps 30 year cycle because we've added a couple playgrounds since then you're correct the last year we fought they support they agreed to support funding for a playground and then we switched robots just transfer the funds at this town meeting because the children's way was moving in we needed a playground that was suitable for preschoolers at the happy hollow but then so now there is no playground this year there'll be one next year i believe when that happened and again somebody needs to confirm this mr keveney is that because it's a funding source outside of kelly help me out here's a general fund is that the right word fun yeah it's outside the general funding and it's that he did not include it as a funding source it wasn't originally but it has not been um included in more recent years to my knowledge so essentially you could put the 200 in from the playground take the 200 or the 400 back out yeah carol just just on that subject i mean on page sorry that's wrong wrong word yeah let me get it i look at the right
they may have changed that from two years ago which is i think your point so the other interesting challenges and then this might be one of those areas that uh sipsy needs to resolve maybe have a conversation with um uh the uh the cpa folks is they gather their requests i think the deadline is november and then they review them in december and vote them in january so they're kind of their cycle does not match yours so it might be that may a couple places to go look to if you would like to and come yeah i don't think that helps we can end it here it's just that when we when we had the capital working group what we said was all capital projects including those that are going to seek cpc funds should be submitted in the plan right so that there's a again comprehensive understanding of what resources are being utilized um if if that's since changed and that's not what we want to do and everything's going to get funded you know submitted to cpc fine but it's inconsistent with what we talked about excuse me let me say nothing has been changed this is the system they've been using my suggestion is that if they're supposed to include their projects in your the five-year plan i think we need to have a conversation that's between the cips and the cpa cpc to find out how we can get those projects listed yeah i mean i think carol you you are correct looking at the last year in last spring's warrant um yeah the presentation of the pirate plan was different than all the prior number of years where we had kind of a what i refer to as the five-year plan up the top of the table we had the things outside certain award article type things below that and the cpc items were included there that that's not how it was done this past year a couple of those items that used to appear below the line were then in text right after the table but i just looked and the text had no mention of the the cpc items which we had included in our recommended five-year plan which we could continue to do the other thing is the cpc having watched a few of their meetings i think they generally have been supportive of those playground requests but they're always to your point carol they're always pretty careful to say but we can't give you any guarantees we have to deal with requests that come in and they have to prioritize what those requests are and if they ultimately decide that they have enough money that they want to put forward on those fields they'll do it um uh so i think all we need to do is we we can either be a little more proactive and this would include the town manager i mean to your point he didn't submit a cip the commander's office didn't submit a cip for the 100 000 a year field rehab at the moment i included that assuming that if we were to reach out to them you can get a cip for it um and and and it's a hot topic um right um but um you know i think it would it would be appropriate courtesy to maybe do it to the email that katherine bretta the recreation department to say just want to let you know we did not we're getting toward the end of our process we did not receive any cips for um um playground rehabilitations um nor any new fields beyond the field at the high school uh and in fact noticed that somebody said did they completely drop the uh the two who yeah they dropped them because they said it was planned to be cpc is what i asked michael fea that at one of our meetings and maybe to say uh you know this is at least for this committee this is your last best chance to get something to us quickly um and then if nothing comes in you know i think we just because because last year our report would have referred at least to the cpc uh projects uh we probably should put something in just to transition between the two years put the dollars into my original my original statement is you know it's a new committee it's a new process it's going to take us a full year a few years perhaps a couple rounds the bases to make sure we've got everything and what we should have if you feel something should be there i suggest you reach out and have that other committee come in i will say this i remember brian can you remember back when is it mr was it jerry hillary was the chair of the cpc all those all those items were in the capital budget yeah carol i knew it was there so just i don't know if that's a help or not we we got to move on but what i would say is it's it's almost irrelevant to me whether or not cpc is is going to agree to fund them or not it's relevant because that's the funding source that's being assigned to them but it's putting it in the plan because it's a project that the town's going to do with town with town even though it's cpc it's town resources and town staff right it's not a separate set of staff that are going to management manage it so that's why it should go in but i i hear you and we'll we'll move on and we'll ask the questions again all right and i agree with you back to your question was uh do uh does anybody have telling john any questions or issues with how we went about um fitting in the i.t revised request and i had a i had a very own couple of follow-ups but i'll let you guys go first i don't remember if the notes had seemed yeah i was before i was comfortable with it but great but yeah it's not great and then the biggest one was the adding this cyber security compliance and taking the roof out yeah yeah so i had one minor question as i was and i'll bring it back up when i do the minutes i had a couple of edits on the minutes um that you saw so if you look at um fiscal 28 the um you have it the uh the summary at the bottom of the uh spreadsheet that shows the funding sources looked at my minutes i have the tables in the back of the minutes and i realized i had mislabeled there's 130 000 it request for av equipment which again that was the other question i meant to ask nick so i was here we were questioning which rooms were getting the upgrades uh but anyway uh in my table in the minutes i had mislabeled that as free cash and in fact in the excel spreadsheets that we've been working with it's under levy debt but when i look at the summary of where we ended up on levy debt and free cash um we're over levy debt by versus what was in the warrant by 198 000 and we're under on free cash by 136 000. i'm just going to ask if people wanted to move 130 over to free cash just to get those numbers closer that makes sense yes not just for that because it's also because it's a small right um and i'll correct the minutes uh well i guess the minutes will then be correct as free cash so i'll correct this spreadsheet and send out version seven you knew i had just pasted the fy28 table into the report right
literally five minutes ago
um no other um questions on while we're on the the question of the roof and this has to do more on the narrative of the report uh but i'll discuss it now because we talked about the roof um as i understand mike fair wanted to include is a 25 or 30 000 for design uh in fy28 i think we said yeah that was that was fine and then you wanted to move the 700 000 to the following year um but i think we discussed the fact that because of the vision committee that's going on uh and their report presumably is going to come out in the next 12 months um do we not include uh the 700 000 in the following year i think we decided that we should not we decided not just because we didn't have any funding capacity to include it i think what we talked about was that we and i labeled on the bottom of the table that's for fiscal 28 that's attached to the minutes i put the word priority next to it and i think in the in the text of the minutes i indicated that were there insufficient funds for the town manager to be able to work it into his fiscal 28 budget we just wanted to make it known we reviewed it as a priority but it needed to go in with the other town building type requests we're waiting the resolution of that committee's work right um so what that means essentially for us is we're saying they should try to prioritize it in 28 if they can if not then we'll have to rework and 29 as a priority essentially well well i guess what i was thinking i mean it's a total of about over six million dollars with the 700 000 thrown in um when it won't be included at all in any of the in any of the budgets but was 700 the piece of roof that had the structural issue or is this yeah this is the safety one that we said yeah yeah and that's i feel like cascades all the way through the plan but i go i'm back and forth between well the visioning committee will come out but what if the visioning committee is like it's likely to be i think brian even said this in a prior meeting like a five six year right before they actually can actually do whatever that vision is i think the roof still got to get fixed at least that segment that's what might we asked mike that specific question like can this wait and he said no the first time right then he got and i understand why like okay i understand his ask to split so he can get the design started right i appreciate doing it that way because at least you can get moving um but i'm a little nervous about not having it in there to me it seems like it becomes almost priority number one for f by 29 you can look at 29 and look at the items that are there and if folks see something that you feel the roof takes priority over we could certainly deal with that now the other thing i would say is i'd almost rather have it in fy 29 and if the visioning committee comes and says you know got a great plan it's you know can be implemented immediately then yeah then you have 700 right and you can pull back in next year in any of the other years because it wasn't safety related it was just a lot of those are roofs as well well there was there was a 300 it was he labeled it phase two but it was the third piece of the roof he had 310 000 in fiscal 29 which we took out if we don't have enough funding sources and and we rationalized it based on you know we've got to find out what this committee does because they may decide to borrow the whole amount for all the improvements once they're done which case the roofs will get done right um and so other than that particular roof having the structural issues that he alluded to um i think we decided it would be inconsistent pushing the 310 you know into purgatory and we did the same thing with 500 000 in fiscal 30 we pushed that we didn't include that in the plan um but having said that um if you look at the items in this plan we don't have any real funding left we're over on levy debt by 140 000 and we're over on free cash by 130 000. um you know big items you have the public safety building hvac upgrade so i suppose you could reach out to michael and say hey which is more important to you um and at least then go find a 200 000 item the dpw bms tie-in with the other one so you know and again then you're just punting those off into 30 because he felt you know he felt important to get those things done um where you go after items and other departments purview and i think all the other ones people made a pretty canal a strong case for why they were needing them in fiscal 29. i just thought it was if we labeled it a sort of utmost priority of the town building improvements um that when the town manager gets down to figure out his budget and plan if they find resources or there's things that they don't prioritize the same way we did and they can fit in in fiscal 28 so be it the other thing i'll say is and brian keveney continues to treat it this way and who knows based on cost escalation it might end up being the case anyway but the 5.4 million dollar number if you go back that was the request that we got from michael feya um last year which was an amount that appeared in the warrant prior year to that and he provided us detail of that 5.4 million which included a couple million from wolf and then when we pushed back and said hey can you figure out how to phase that he came back with you know phasing it over four fiscal years and it added up to less than two million um but um when i looked at some things brian keveney sent me he continues to show the 5.4 million and then he's adding in the three the three roof amounts and i emailed back to him i said no those roof amounts are in that 5.4 million and i just heard you allude to the 5.4 million so i just want to be careful that we're not overstating what the uh what we expect that request to be but with cost escalation that's how we get there i mean 5.4 is not getting escalated at all it's already two years old so so i i just want to make the point that you can get it's getting confusing as it is i go back to though like again i think the rest of the roofs while are beneficial to do them because it won't leak that has other damage the reason we all said the 700 was because of the structural issue right so i'm i'm personally still inclined to try fit it in and push something out i mean and to be honest i would i mean i missed the conversation but i imagine the telephone system is probably not critical to cyber security at this phase and if we're adding 1.9 million i'd say you know we can all live with crappy phones a little longer that'd be my personal opinion um you know i think it's fair i've said that before i mean we added this much money i think it's fair to say okay that's yeah and are you really going to do that on top of your 1.9 million of cyber security that's half of it so where's the other um and and just anything we pull out of here in theory if we thought enough to leave it in fiscal 29 we're not going to move it you would think we'd move it to 30 and 30 again we have no well actually we do have levy debt capacity in 30. yeah i mean i would just i would punt the phone system to there and just personally just keep it simple right until it becomes a priority it's 340 in my opinion because hopefully after everything else is done there'll be a better technology um library again uh yeah that was my other question you could do the library building generator well i was gonna what about the library ground improvements either one i mean graph are they still in here i thought they were still in the bump that out lower level upgrades yeah what we just the children's room and lower level upgrades were already done they weren't finished is that what he told us no i just know that i thought from what's not finished i'm inclined to say push the generator right and we have the area and we have other we have other places people can go go to the grandchildren that's it yeah i think it's nice to it's nice to have until based on everything else we're doing i mean we have yeah we have other places we have the middle right middle school or high school community and we have that as well center yeah with the loaner generator we have somewhere yeah so you would propose moving the library building generator 30 levy debt the telephone system replacement i.t with pro quo move it uh levy debt that's 740 and then plug in the town building roof into fiscal 29. here's the simple so i would move it from the excluded from the fiscal 28 and just show it as an item that got moved in these uh tables keep track of it the library grounds improvement is in fy28 really yeah it's in but we're using cap stabilization yeah we changed the funding source rather than taking it out oh okay okay and you know it sounded like if the town manager decides that he doesn't want to use the cap stabilization fund i mean we just take that off yeah that was why we picked a lower priority one how do you build straight i thought i read it there which i don't remember a whole lot lately so going going once going going twice fiscal 29 picks up 700 000 roofs well we'd have to do them with the roofs with then the question is do we do the roofs with free cash which both those other items are being funded with free cash
see what else we have we can do the uh do the equipment h1 sweeper with free cash it's the biggest item in there right now it's 525 of it whether what the radio systems and those things um we have we have the cyber in levy debt but i mean shouldn't we be trying to do in levy debt the things that have
periods so i mean i want the roof and debt 250 sidewalk improvements in free cash we need we need the things that are labeled levy that we need to change them to free cash oh i'm sorry the tune of 700 000 meeting room av that's 130 right oh sorry i'm in 28. you already moved that that's not helpful we have salt shed which is a long live asset equipment sweeper possibly well i'm sure it will last 10 years anyway wait a minute i'm in the wrong am i in the wrong year you had to do the same thing i would say the hbacf rate is a long term item wall repairs pretty much everything in there is i mean wall repairs you could argue or i mean it's building but you could argue that it's more cosmetic than anything so make it free cash i mean of all the things that are in there yeah because that road number keeps getting bigger would you still come in any other category or no it's just us do you have anything else i would do the street street sweepers free cash and but it's going to 175 000 you have nothing else that small with levy debt nothing says we have to i mean they could be plus or minus part levy debt and part free cash yeah they can split it um
i'd rather yeah what do we say though the sweeper do the sweeper free cash and we do part of the high school and middle school ceiling wall repairs part free cash and part levy debt i'll figure out the numbers the roof would be levy debt and we're taking out two things moving them from free cash to levy debt
everybody tracking that yep mr feya thanks you john i think it's right it's going to have five people's input yeah i don't think we did much on 30 31 32 so i think budget's still allowed most things at that point yeah were you satisfied with your discussion on the 2.7 million field or do you want to these earlier comments about like no but it's just i i still it's hard for me this to we have a budget we know cyber's going to be growing to justify upgrading high school fields which seems very much like a nice day especially when you have again things that are necessary so that was just what you missed last week um well i i appreciate that and i don't necessarily disagree but i think why i'm comfortable with it in the plan is because we have it in excluded debt and so that is going to be a vote so a separate vote yeah at the ballot box right it's a hard vote the the town we're gonna we're gonna put in the plan what needs to be in the plan and the town is going to be asked like do you want to do this twice they're going to get asked at the ballot box if they want to do it um as excluded debt yeah and then they're going to get asked again at town meeting in a separate article not within hopefully not within the capital budget um so i'm comfortable putting it in there because everybody's going to get there not that they don't all get their say anyway but they're going to get multiple opportunities to yeah it's not a all or nothing it's this is you can take this as it is yeah if it were inside the plan i and it was instead of something else i would i would have a real hard time with that yeah and just i understand excluded debt that's the color of money we can't like switch things into it right because it does become its own standalone article that you you have to vote the project yeah a group of projects it has to be in the question and it has to be suitable yeah it does it doesn't technically have to be we have policy that it should be um which that's actually less than but we've talked about why we're doing that but it has to be in the wording of the of the ballot question um and that question is deciding whether or not it's excluded debt not whether or not you're doing the project then town meeting yeah you're deciding whether or not to do it in theory it could be included in the capital plan and voted as part of the whole capital plan but i wouldn't recommend that and i don't know that the that anybody else would recommend it because you you don't want to have the rest of the capital budget get picked apart so you do it separately as a separate article if you put the 2.7 in doesn't that blow apart the the limits it's excluded you're no no if it's a capital budget yeah cause another issue uh you can once it's been voted no i mean to say we included the 2.7 that we we don't have any place to put it no if you put it in it's just excluded debt i know but if you tried to fit it yeah isn't that what you were suggesting liz it's like it's one of those where you're like could you just like do they need the full to me like can you carve off 700k to cover you know the roof repair i think the answer is no yeah because it's its own standalone it's going to be voted on and voted on its entirety so the 2.7 or whatever it's going to grow to um and and i think it's just overarching though if we have a total budget of acts that 2.7 is including that if it wasn't going i guess my fundamental question is if it wasn't going towards excluded debt or or couch says excluded debt would it go back into levy to free cash or something or is it really just if we doesn't buy us anything there's no more room right yeah if we included it that way but we're not and so i and i wouldn't recommend that we include it i think you took it out and just said hey just don't do it we can't put something else in yeah well does our 28 or 29 budget now go up by an additional 2.7 no okay and that's not at all yeah no but but you still could as a committee majority of the committee could still because we're dealing with a five-year plan based on new information from a year ago when we sort of left it where it was right um and i'm not advocating this but you could um say hey we've got um operating deficits from 2029 anyway through 36 um whether it's excluded debt or levy it really doesn't matter at the end of the day taxpayers are still going to be getting a much bigger bill and so from a fiscal perspective you've been said this is a nice to have but i don't know that i want to committee want to include that as a priority even if it's being funded with that and handled as an article if the committee majority committee said we just don't think it's that important or you know we want to keep pushing it out and see what the future holds that's certainly fair game i said i'm not advocating that just because i'm sitting here as the school representative wouldn't ask you to burn yeah and and i had a different hat on i might advocate that but um and it becomes probably will become a bigger issue if you're sitting here you know um a year from now right now looking at the capital budget um and articles for that town meeting and having probably more definitive information on the town's fiscal situation than exists right at the moment that you you might not be there today but you might be there then and i won't be there so and i i agree with everything brian just said the reason i lean towards leaving it in is because and i'm even fine i i would even caveat it in in a report right to say you know you think this could be stretching right taxpayers you know desire to pay right for these things but we're going to leave it in here because it should be it can be a separate or it can it will be a separate vote um i would rather not make that i guess my i would rather not make that decision for the town i would rather let the town make that decision with with the knowledge at the time of what it means from a tax perspective right because we'll know that when they're actually voting on it so yeah the only thing i would say is to counterbalance that again i'm taking off my school representative pat um um as we've all seen over the years now meetings attendance will depend on what's up for consideration and so uh you could certainly expect a lot of people that are interested in an improved high school ball field to show up at that meeting um and that's their focus and as they may understand that it has a broader fiscal impact and so my view would be sometimes the purpose of some of these layers of bureaucracy that are put in place are to look out for the entire town not just for the three or four hundred people that show up for a particular warrant article and even if this committee were to take on that as its approach and say picking on that item we just don't see doing that in the near future because of the fiscal picture if it changes we could reconsider it that still doesn't mean that someone can't put in a warrant article for it right and yeah request of the software to put a ballot question on and the 400 or 500 people show up and vote it in but it's a flaw in our form of government that you know you get these disjointed decisions made by individual groups that are focused on a particular issue and all that adds up to large tax bills leaking roofs but awesome and i understand that i i understand the process and again it's just it's one of those things when you hear okay we've got a 1.9 looming expense that's coming down the pipe and it's going to grow and it's like oh and by the way we need baseball fields it's just kind of you know uh at odds with the priorities at least in my mind but that's just my opinion so anyway i've said it there it is and you know i i would not be uncomfortable um you know adding you know a sentence or two that the committee discussed the 2.7 million dollar request on fiscal 30 uh acknowledging fiscal issues the town faces uh chose to leave it in the plan but fully expect to revisit it yeah um like those words that's fair yeah that's right next year just to put everybody on notice um and i think i can't speak for the school committee but i think if it happened to be that that item was up in the capital budget for consideration this year and they were also looking for two million dollars for the msba i'm pretty sure i know which one they would prioritize that's them prioritizing not necessarily oh i understand yeah so all right any other pages on the numbers but brad needs to get to to the motion no more changes no i will um redo this send out virgin center you resend it to me i did um i didn't watch it um i think the dpw tom holder may have raised carol did you are you still going to the dpw meetings yes except i couldn't go last night because i was chairing the select board meeting oh i'm sorry that's correct so he was going to i am interested in what happened so thank you all yeah so he was going to uh at least have a preliminary discussion with the board which we had requested that we wanted to know if the board um was in sync with tom's requests particularly on the some of the water and wastewater projects that were new um and so he was supposed to go through some of that with them last night i'm not sure they were necessarily going to take a formal vote um so um you know the tape will be up soon enough so you know i'll take a little tape and report back to the next meeting but when i was watching a brief snippet of the wastewater meeting because i wanted to see if he was going to talk that's a separate commission and he did go through with them his capital request and again he didn't ask them for a formal vote um i thought i heard him say that um it was likely he was going to be coming back with some tweaks um he was saying that to the commission not to me um so uh obviously time is running out for us so you know i'm just don't be surprised if something comes over the transom from it's always going to happen though right i mean yeah we talk about this right we're going to issue and then we'll deal with what comes after after he didn't he wasn't specific on what weeks you know he was thinking about but so
and so i guess the next item then is uh the the reports um i know i've sent around it's i think it's version four is the one i've sent around um i've got some some additional edits and i've made notes on what i have to add uh for uh for this evening uh but i think what why don't we want to first throw it out and say anybody have any particular overarching comments about the the format because it's a little bit different from last year's suggestions changes um i didn't necessarily have questions on the format other than um the administrative matters you might still be able to pull a good section of that and stick it in an appendix but um i was thinking possibly everything but the charter slash mission and capital planning and debt policies like that so sort of everything before that from administrative matters to where the charter mission starts you could stick it in the back but it's i don't feel strongly about it and it's already pretty abbreviated so um and then i did want to just if we when we get to it can we walk through this second section by section because let's put the tables together some of them um i have questions because things have changed from what we were doing a year ago before i i spend too much time and then we change our mind so in table one um i just want to make sure that's supposed to be the prior capital plan approved i understood that um my question was you had said it said in the notes to add 2031 so my question was are we looking to have five years here including 27 or four like we did last year i think four makes sense that's okay that's that's what i started to do but the year in the title was still seven so i wasn't sure if that was intentional because the 31 was updated i think you just carried the tables i just yeah all the i did i just cut and pasted all the tables i know but the title for it which is not part of the table but 31 was up the oh 27 to 31 31 31 was updated and 27 wasn't changed of the table yeah i got it got it okay good i actually made this say i put this thing table of contents if people think it's a good idea if not we don't have to use it but i i made the same issue had the same error there i should have put 28. yeah so i i like that because it's a quick hit um if you just want to go quick to the table you can find it quickly not like i've ever had a problem trying to get to tables in my own report
but okay so that's good so i did that one and um we didn't have a total on this last year do we want a total on it we still on table one yeah remember one yeah like for the four years we don't know for the four years oh and the only reason i say maybe not is because it's not technically the total budget right because their articles implies that it's 14 million approved but that would be the only reason
i mean it would be relevant to say you have a total on table two and i assume we're going the same table order that you had yeah um at least that would be comparable well except table two has five years in it so it won't um currently has five years oh i'm sorry it'll have five years it will have five years the only reason to put a total on is that you can see like okay how much was the four year the four year if you compare um yeah yeah yeah but i don't think i don't feel strongly so i'll leave it as is for now and if you guys feel differently i'll add another year all right we talked about hey i beat that that horse um um in the paragraph at the bottom of page two we say
the form requested a list of capital projects covering the next five years as well as a request to identify expected capital appropriations for fy 33 to 47. um can we say significant capital appropriations true yep yep because we didn't ask them to give us a whole plan yep that's a good point
okay so we get to the paragraph above table two we say it's 70.4 for requests for 112 projects i have 72.4 but that i'm not sure i just want to reconcile the difference between what i had in what is there and then my other problem is we say 112 projects i think it's 113 when you throw in the new it schedule but um that doesn't account for the multi-year nature of some of the projects which would be fine except then we start talking about individual counts of projects for each year and it it insinuates that there's less projects in the out years than there is and since even though we've got them across the year each of them are going to get voted individually right i i think we should up that number to the full which i think is 151 but i would agree just otherwise i mean you know we started explaining the semantics of how we build the forms i don't think no no i don't think that matters right and i don't know if brian if it just makes sense i don't know where the 70.4 came from if somebody can point me to it and then i can look for the yes we'll probably redo it anyway because we just changed a bunch of things yeah so let's see yeah because as i'm doing this i'm just trying to check numbers to be a second source yeah i'm not sure i i think i i think i've i'm quite sure where i pulled it from okay you said you have what i have 72.4 um i'll double check it okay and then this next table i think based on the words in the paragraph above i think there might be a little bit of a difference of thought on what that next table is what that next table was last year was signifying it was one we added because the requests had changed so much from the beginning of the process to the end of the process if you remember we got a lot of recent missions and we were trying to illustrate the fact that 46 projects changed um and that the absolute value of the projects was actually pretty significant um so we can do that again but i just need to know where are we measuring the line from because it's not quite as clear to me do we need to do it again that's what i don't i don't know that we need to like why is it important to us this year to say what changed i think it's not important now i think it's important whatever if we do it and them i think it's important to do it there and now it's clean excuse me we're just talking about what changed from august to yeah so but i think in the words we were actually getting at something different than that and i just want to make sure if i'm reread it oh no we talk about during and after the meetings so maybe not maybe those are just last year's words no those are last year's words okay that's okay yeah so my question is do we want to up front do any um comparison of and i know we're starting with the capital plan in table one that was approved but do we want to say anywhere what the difference was between the approved capital plan and our prior recommendation up front or do we care um that's the table that i sent you when you sent me right in email right um yeah and i think we should include that somewhere i did the summary of your request and then i have that more yeah yeah um just that closes the book on last year and it did it at a high enough level i think do we want to put it up front though or we want to stick that as sort of a back exhibit i think in the back in the appendix yeah just just as again as a point of reference if someone's looking at the prior report and process and you know we did have a significant number of variances and so maybe it's a paragraph in in that early part maybe after table one of like this is different than maybe just based on our you know based you know connecting the dots from prior year report to what ended up in the town meeting warrant there were significant number of variances due to the different processes involved uh you know see appendix blip for a summary and detail of whatever those variances were we would know most of them were timing which is true um but it's it it's just that our process last year was a little different than our process this year what i mean we've got a late start yeah i was you know yeah no i'm i'm talking but if i think it's worth bridging that over which also goes to trying to be more collaborative in the process this year so i think that part of what kelly is in terms of text with a reference to somewhere in appendix to look at the actual numbers would make sense i don't know if that's the very first thing which you would say well how do we make out last year have you you know have your report fair in the hands of the town manager i mean one of the things that i rather than this last year just again because of the process we had so many revisions it obviously cost us time so to me that table was partly explaining why it took us a little bit longer than it might otherwise have taken us given the number of you know revisions we haven't had that many revisions this year you're talking about table two now right yeah but but i would be as a table one and i i've tried to highlight it in the tables i've attached to the minutes i would be interested in maybe uh either in the text or it's worth a table uh number of new requests and number of requests that moved around and number of requests that were deleted over a prior year whereas over last over the table one numbers yeah so you're saying for table two instead of what's there we do a table that's reconning at a high level the approved plan last year to the new plan in terms of projects added projects deleted project shifted something along those lines yeah yeah and then you know depending on the i'm assuming just reflective of the previous four years right because obviously yeah yeah yeah yeah and so in the appendices where we presumably we're going to have the same list of detailed projects which is sort of equivalent to what's in the minutes um yeah we can certainly add descriptors i'm not sure the colors will show up we could add the scripture descriptions which i think i have moved to fiscal year blip moved from fiscal year blip you know deleted although we don't if they're deleted they're not going to show up on that list so i just know how much detail you know we really mean the minutes certainly won't have that level of detail but and i think that'll be important again this report's going to the account manager yes it's available from public but i think that it that'll be important particularly for the finance director to understand that we didn't a lot of the changes from year to year etc were not our changes they or deletions were not our deletions they came from yeah there weren't that many deletions submissions mostly there's error items that that were in the five-year prior five-year plan that we knew shouldn't have been in there because we heard from department heads either didn't need the request or it was mislabeled we oh that's a good point did we fix that we didn't did we fix that when we sent the cips to the department managers to fill out no and so like on the fire chief when he came in he had fixed the one description yeah a lot of it was description and shift and shifting and then there were three projects that weren't that were pulled out um that was the the one of the bms tie-ins that he had extra h michael fea had extra um hvac money and the two basketball hoops um and i know that from painstakingly lining up the projects next to each other and then there was a description description change great description change on one of them something much worse than it
ai can only go so far guys if you change the word next year it'll be fine no because when i'm done then i have to go back and fix it so that it works together together okay i i i hear you there and that's i agree with you that was uh and also i don't want to try to have to do the um changes in departmental work of us that was not that easy to automate okay good um brian on page bottom of page four is there a new finance committee guideline newer than the 2025 annual town meeting warrant well not that i'm aware of is are they planning on having one okay i was going to say it stays the same okay um i think i mentioned it at our last meeting in passing but we haven't discussed it i have two right two concerns you've raised them before one is free cash says one and a half two million and we're way over spending that um and the second is levy borrowing which is the one place that i would expect there to be some limitations driven by finance committee activities and planning so yeah i mean i think if we include this just make sure it it says what it says which is it's the last version and um maybe there's a recommendation somewhere that does we recommend that the finance committee review this and update as needed consider taking into account the recently approved financial policies that um i can't remember if they have any limits on i think they have some percentage limits and things which are the percent limits policy yeah but no that has not been discussed yet yeah and that table has cpa in it which we don't have any projects but i'm gonna keep moving um nitpicky thing under that table for the with the finance committee's guidelines i think those two notes shouldn't have bullets and should be because they're just footnotes to that chart the ones that start voters may and other potential i'm sorry you're saying take that those are asterisk footnotes they're the uh you can change the footnotes and make them real footnotes like numbered footnotes um but they don't need bullets they're like yeah yeah yeah yeah um and then this next section right below there the recommended capital plan should meet the above guidelines i have not done anything to try and assess that yeah that was just pulled that's yeah i don't know i i'll i'll i gotta get all the other stuff in there and then i can go back and see we made pretty broad statements to see if we can we can still make those statements or something similar
um another nitpicky in the cip current process paragraph at the bottom of the paragraph we say the following 15 fy can we say fiscal year oh yes yep and then on the next page the middle of the page do we want to talk at all here about the one ranking that's i pointed out that was backwards um yeah yeah provided suggestions will be considered in the next iteration i can put in there that's a little well or we don't have to i don't know i can i can put in there okay i'm skipping some of my dumber comments
so i put together the apparently i pasted it in backwards again um the table seven and table eight um which is just the fy 28 plan which page is page eight nines in there so i put those together brian my question for you do you remember what year we used the real estate fund for capital i just want to copy the wording for the bottom of the chart because we have
page 25 five that's me table 12 um five-year plan page 20 of the 2025 annual time meeting warrant 2025 warrant okay that's fine i don't know what we're gonna do next year it's like no it's nothing happened before i guess we won't know so it won't even that's one of the brian's would be on this right two minutes oh no brian gets excited time you get brian gets together i wean myself off the pin count it took like two months of me sending in comments on agendas and things and they finally are they're getting tired of it so and then they just and then they just beg you to go back out let's come back yeah it's also in the uh page 49 as well as long as you have this plan okay we all heard it right just he harasses us we just bring him back okay great that was one and then the other is just confirming that the article for the feasibility study does not go in that chart usually right it's separate because that's that's that's the summary chart that ends up being the one like the one that goes in the warrant yeah we're the same as last year we have above the line below the line okay
on that chart at the moment even though last year we included the cpc items you're you're leaning toward not including those and dealing with that in text well we didn't get any cpc items okay so the answer is no i think we have enough to do without maybe you could put appease me and put the line in it'll show zeros and put a drop a footnote on the table as of the date of this report no uh no oh yeah we usually don't show it in that table in that table if it rolls up under someone else anyway right because it's a separate article do we yeah if you look at the addendum last year the table 14
same thing we had kind of above the line that's that's the capital plan by funding source i mean it's in this table too wait a minute it's in this report so did you say capital stabilization or or in tables table 14 probably the last year's but then i'm number one but in this current report bridge and it's in here you can see it yeah it was 14 is in here it's not yeah i haven't changed yeah yeah i just pasted it in it says 400 every other all right in table 14 but it's not in table seven which is what right i'm looking at the old one i just believe it it's not it's not okay i wasn't all the way on team yet okay so when you get to 14 my suggestion if we don't want to put the numbers in just leave the line item and put a footnote there or something that just that's nothing because as a data report the committee had received no specific requests and we could go so far as to say last year we reflected 400 000 fiscal 28 fiscal 30 so okay just a thought so table nine is where we had done last year's compare of the current like one year by department i think we still want to do that right because that's different than reconciling and we don't need to revise this is this is reconciling and this is in your in your file that you sent right brian no so something along these lines doesn't have to be exactly in this format but so i'll look at how to put it in but if we put it up earlier i if depending on how it fits on the page put it might put it earlier um although what i'm thinking is the early table is going to be a comparison by year across all the years without the departments and then this one is going to be for fy28 by department yeah so blowing out a little bit more no revised requests the right one goes away thanks we won't need to say revised requests we'll just say um current current requests that was just to link it okay so the revised line rather than the current one or final request finally yeah oh no that's like tempting as of that's what i'm an awfully big dice i'd rather not thanks um anyway above that final okay um and then i'm i'm not gonna do table pen as what i'm gonna do is use something along that format for the earlier chart that we talked about
yeah saying how many additions removals i'm gonna use something similar to that okay sorry
and new requests so that's the biggest item okay yeah removals is short additions is big um craft and then 12 and 13 i will do once you send me the final arc in 13 the categories yeah where does it go it mostly is equipment sometime uh could be infrastructure you know have to again they were supposed to fill out the um yeah jps with what they thought the proper category was the pre-populated ones i think i took a stab at filling them in but and then they would were supposed to correct them probably equipment mostly then yeah yeah there was a couple i even that were filled in i'm like that's not the right answer like that we might have to go back in the second week um okay and then 14 this is where you were telling me to make sure i included cpc cpc as even if it's a blank line cpa yes it's community preservation act but it's the community preservation committee so funding funding is from the cpa funding i think i i don't see table 11 did i not put that in
uh i don't know no that was that was uh additional revisions since our original report yeah i don't think you need it i don't think you need it we'll need to renumber all the tables but you're doing an addendum you'll need it um right it's just from a procedure standpoint once this report's done life continues to go on department heads inevitably you're going to be talking to the town manager priorities might change between yeah and and again things aren't supposed to go to town meeting plus capital request unless they've been vetted through this committee right recommended that recommended they just need to be vetted so you'll just have to keep in touch with town manager to and our heads and just say hey any something what changes we need to see them otherwise there could be problems on town meeting floor yeah okay so brian you're going to send the new five years that we just adjusted again and i'm gonna yes those in there
uh and then we have our in advance list right so here as an example we talked about it never did get anything back from michael fair tom holder from the transfer station garage again i'd be inclined to leave the 450 in there um because that's that's the only number that we um we dealt with it's not in our plan so we're still saying it's being held in advance was even requested though anywhere yeah can we if we're going to do that i want to note and if we're going to do that for a fields or anything like that if you want to include them we can we can do it but we're going to say we didn't these were these were significant requests in the prior year that didn't appear that didn't come forward this year you know and we're noting it i think i like that approach better than adding yeah i'll give a pass to the hundred thousand dollars for the town managers field stuff but the rest of it
maybe we can ask town manager's boss if she wants to put in the request for the hundred thousand dollars a year is that question for me say that again we're just looking for someone to assure us that the town manager wants a hundred thousand dollars a year for field rehab they didn't request it i think for some reason or other did we vote that at town meeting brian a couple years ago that is not a specific number in an article and it was included in the last couple of five-year plans but it was actually in right and in the language says that it's for five years um i've seen it on charts do you need it we'll get it for you how's that sound wait he he's he's being a little yeah a little is this like no taking no laundry i mean we put it in carol a hundred thousand a year did we do it for four years or did you add for the fifth i can't remember i put it in okay so we went ahead and put it in for five years but it was not submitted right i got it okay duly noted yes maybe a break i don't know if it's a break that list into to the things big projects have been requested that didn't come about again this year or if it's footnoting them to see how the list looks so here i mean most of these are the town building items so when you add all these items up plus the ones that were in our five-year plan last year mostly roof there's also a couple other items they all add up more or less to 5.4 million but this category will pick up a couple more and lose one or two right so we already split this list sorry i just realized we split the list between things we didn't put in because we had outstanding questions and things that were we just didn't put in right that we didn't have that list will be a lot shorter yeah we didn't have anything that we knocked out right right okay so then that means 16 we shouldn't need right we shouldn't need 15 and not table 15 and not table 16 right yeah i have my merchant orders um i mean i guess the critical question is that um you know you know we need to we need to have the tables so that brad can draft intelligent comments that follow the table and we all can in turn review and edit um you know i'd be happy to attack the appendices um and try to get those in reasonable shape um a few of them might have tables that you know i know i did some of the tables last last year yeah you did table i did the one i'm happy to do the list i just put all the detail from that data set which i'm happy to get in a cleaned up form and just and you did pull it together and you know people are kelly's idea moving some stuff out of the administrative section into an appendix appendix i you know i can did you say leave the uh mission and charge in but take stuff out before that was that your um yeah before before the mission in charge like talking about who the committee members are and stuff like that i it's i could go either way i was just trying to get quicker to the like what are we doing here i thought we already yeah i thought we said yes to pushing that back anyway so again i'm happy to attack the appendices um which get those in pretty good shape um again some of which i did last year i mean there may be some kelly that you i did f you did e um you did yeah you did e i did f and you did g and i don't this is an old final i don't know which copy this is but i'm thinking i get them literally down to a camera did you do all those in pdf only or did you get them all into word uh i copy and paste i always copy and paste the pictures into word so that that that formatting doesn't get screwed up so you know i'll i'll pull all those together and again if i have an open question um you know kelly if you did f and then you just if i can't remember you sent me an excel file that had all your tables in it from the final report i i i guess would be the appendix f is probably in there yeah except f um let's talk about because i mean i sent you last year's i don't have the same file for this year i'm working for many because we we won't be doing actually what was that i mean what was that uh sorry you're ranking couple requests prior to your ranking um that i can pretty easily put together though because this is just department project ranking which we can decide how to do funding source amounts so this is really just a repeat of what goes in table seven with the ranking added to it the ranking last year was right sorted by highest to lowest departmental correct correct what i'm saying is i already have i already have all the columns except for the priority ranking in a file so i think i can just add and i i pulled that information into what i circulate as everybody by uh by project oh no i did i pulled the um i pulled i think i pulled the total yeah i pulled the total number of the five or six ranking items the total uh yes and that other file that you sent but again there were some aberrations where they you know some people put one in for every yeah i it's easy for me to grab it because it's i already have a formula that can just drag it down so i can grab that okay so f makes sense g g doesn't make sense just because we didn't we didn't do that that was our ranking right yeah i'm wondering if um do we just do instead of that format do we just do oh no we didn't ask for rankings right we didn't ask the the department heads for rankings for the out years some a certain overachiever gave us their rankings yeah but isn't this what we ranked it last year yeah but we did the high medium well but but it would be consistent with the other but we didn't ask them for the department has to rank anything other than the first year so there's really purpose of g we just don't have yeah any relevant to include yeah i mean last year we didn't have anything so it was important i don't think we need that anymore we wanted to evidence how we went to have this and so somewhere in the text is probably a reference to the pen x g that you'd have to with that rule yeah yes okay you might want to add some words around what we did instead which is right we started from the capital plan and we evaluated priority we did evaluate priority we just didn't like go through and sit here and rank them all yeah there were a handful of projects that we had to rely on the rankings to make a decision all right so the question is is today 23rd references right before table 10 at least it was hi when when do you think we'll have tables and again i'm i know theoretically it's easier for you to do them once you have time to do them because you have everything set up but we need to make forward progress so as i said i can go at some of the tables manually just to get them done um i've gotten like i said i've gotten a bunch of them done it was there were a bunch i had questions on um which we've answered if you can at least forward as you go back and then questions if you can at least the tables you know that are done if you can send those on to brad then at least you can wrap some text around those tables and then get that part of advance that you could get before the next meeting another draft out yeah if if you give me until saturday i can probably get you most of them yeah that's fine because i'll and i'll work on it over the weekend it's going to be yeah and i know you mentioned appendix e but i mean i can put that in there since appendix e the one that lists out all the open capital yeah it was just i think it just provided the detail as a yeah it's like project yes yeah do you want to yeah i'll update that and liz i was going to ask you know with the with your section on that you did on the uh project set done any other changes to make with that your version four included the ones i sent you last wednesday yes yeah yeah yeah yeah like it's good because you sent me red lines i accepted the red lines i mean the only thing is once we finalize table placement we'll still back and update you know table numbers yeah table numbers yeah right yeah um nothing else changed the table numbers will change with yours yeah you just have an x yeah i mean i i would suggest we do like a you know like sorry gold team review but like final review make sure everything like ticks and ties exactly you know you got that from i know right i couldn't even think of a good replacement word um but like but just you know to make sure that everything you know it's fully right line but now otherwise there's no major changes there unless anybody had any no no a long-term section that was going to be my last question um in terms of i mean i can put the narrative together on it i mean i jotted down discussion of the town building discussion of the schools discussion of i.t um what else do you think we should be commenting on in terms of long-term um long-term projects yeah i think if you look um the things you just mentioned but then if you look in the file with all of the cips there's a general tab general submission tab for each department some of them filled it out some of them didn't fire did yeah did no one else there was a couple that did i thought fire was the only one because i because i thought the virus was pretty comprehensive yeah um fire sent along the spreadsheet there was one more just submitted it later i thought oh linda hansen oh that's conservation but that was really just saying hey we need a tractor 10 years yeah um it was uh 10 years 6.8 million so i got that fire also sent us the spreadsheet that showed his equipment replacement out yeah that's a 10 year yeah he did i thought tom holder was had a similar that's what i thought i thought i remember seeing it but i remember me talking about it about it i don't know i'll check you may have said but on that i i wouldn't i wouldn't see getting into the detail other than the reference the fact that we collected initial beginning phases talk about the big projects on the like town building like what you just said like what are the big things that were building school buildings well i do want to emphasize that we because i know it's part of our charge i want to emphasize that we ask for the information yes as i said the um there was clear discussion about when is this committee going to get on with what some perceive it's our real committee's real value he was just focusing on long-term planning not focusing on what town manager and finance committee and now this committee are also doing um that's just because that's what the bylaw says we're doing right um so i think you know at least setting the stage that we're big we're beginning that collection process right can i answer that for the public it's very hard to think about long-term planning when you don't have your five-year plan that's even remotely solid right and i would point to how significant of a change there is in the five-year request right from last year's plan and same thing happened last year it's pretty hard to plan beyond five when you've got tens of millions of dollars of changes in the inside five years right many of them within one year right yeah i mean i think you're all going to have to decide how when you get into long-term planning how exactly are you thinking about doing that i agree you know setting it out on the spreadsheet saying this is what's going to happen may not make sense developing you know a bit more narrative and detail and talk about possible timing and possible cost i mean just on the schools i mean their cost band is you know 200 to 400 million dollars or something you know you know state aid not included plus all the repairs i mean that's building you know depending on the answer it's not a rough estimate of 22 to 25 million could be more um but as you start to get into quote the long-term planning aspect exactly how are you ultimately good one with the future process improvement section as well well i would add i think there's one very important piece of information that we can't even manage to get for the inside five years which is what are the funding constraints and we can sit here and pontificate about what the long-term plans should be but if you don't know how much money you have to spend or what you're at least planning to that's an effort in futility yeah i mean i think a good thing you just take the schools i mean we don't have assets really their school building if someone was able to literally just sit down and say okay we really don't know what's going to happen msb funding they're probably going to drive go no go on you know the two or three projects that they're looking at um they're spread out over 20 or 30 years in their plan um so it's really long term but even if you just then take the first one which could be within the most decade right kind of how things go msba taking the cost estimate that at least has been developed you know high level at the moment for the first project and say okay if we got x percent from msba and now i have the from y amount and we borrow that at x percent that would result in debt service of blip per year just having that number available and for decision makers be able to focus on that because it's going to dwarf anything else that agreed that we have this building if it ends up being whether it's this building or building somewhere else or retrofitting some other building if that's a 20 to 30 million dollar project won't be obviously nearly as big as a new school building at 200 million dollars but you know it could have consequential annual debt service you know coming on at some point uh so starting to quantify some of that information would be helpful and the finance director should be able to if you you know describe them what you're after but uh i think i mean i think what we're talking about is what is our future process improvements and now like i mean yeah carol i think you had a comment you had to raise your hand i did um i'm not so sure that mr hurler here characterized what occurred on this agenda item last night so i'd like to speak on behalf of the board and i actually did reach out to the chair prior to this agenda item being placed on the select board agenda to explain what we're going to have um this is a new committee board's excited about this they're looking forward to the long term we talked a lot last night about the process of that you're recommending to the town me at the town manager who then puts together a plan you know so they're all clear this is all new right um one thing that was said because i know i said it was yes the focus eventually will be long term but you can't look at years six through ten until you have a solid foundation in years one through five so that's just what i said and um i think that if you watch the tape you'll see that the board was um just gathering information i explained how you have the new form and it's very terrific because it's flags changes much more easily and a number of other things and anyway and like i said at the beginning of the meeting we have very very i'm personally very excited that this committee exists and the work you've done has exceeded my personal expectations so i thank you i will confirm that that is true what carol said about what carol feels i can't honestly say that i got the same that away get going from some of the other members but anyway i actually had a question carol um she goes to again this committee's charge uh and i can't find it offhand does anybody have the um cpc bylaw handy um it's um was in 2025 warrant brian i think it's page 68 because that's what i put in the packet so you have it it's gonna say i have it on the back of the report i just i do have that so i'm sorry so uh when i was reading that this morning um i just i read the following it says the capital plan shall be submitted to the town manager for consideration and approval on or before october 15th um for those of you that were on that committee um what did you intend by the words and approval of the town manager uh when we send that where where are you see approving our report section 20-3 which deals with when our report is due to the town manager the fourth fifth line the fourth line down so kelly and i are on that committee together i'll defer to her first because she is on your committee i don't i don't remember a specific discussion about approval yeah i thought i thought that was well no i i thought that was meant to signify the fact that it was not the final stop and that the town manager had final say like basically we weren't setting the capital plan we were making a recommendation and the town manager had the ability to approve right it's in that it's in brian you have to go now excuse me for hopping in here you have to go back to the town manager act now because it does say in there i'm going to find it but the town manager's response is the cfo and one of his responsibilities is to produce a capital an operating budget and a capital budget and then he submits that to the finance committee yeah so right i got all that i would just i just sorry robert waiting over here they're just questioning uh we we finished our report yeah like last year we finished our report we submitted it right beyond october 15th and ultimately what came out from the town manager so he considered our report presumably and then we get it we understand that he then came out with his own plan um so he did he disapprove our plan i don't know but by the way in the town manager act section six says he is the chief financial officer for the town and and then the subheaders c says the town manager shall draft and update a five-year capital improvement plan for all town departments for submission to the finance committee because in the end it is the finance committee that makes the recommendation to yeah i mean it separates them in 20-4 brian the committee's report and the town manager's recommended capital budget shall be made publicly available right it's it distinguishes those words just were a mystery to me because i i didn't yeah i it's i i sorry i i would have just dropped the words from the bottom just said for his consideration yeah and approval yeah maybe yes i don't think it was meant i don't ever remember a discussion of he needed to approve our report like he sent it but what or what like the back for yeah yeah i never yeah probably should have said review but it is a little consideration would have been sufficient anyway um you can add it to your list of capital bylaw of uh capital planning bylaws if if we still exist all right so um i was going to get the tables i'll uh work on the narratives i'll get the next draft sent up for the next meeting i would still encourage if you have any tables that are done before saturday and you can send them to brad i'll send you the appendix i will okay do you want me to do you want me to paste them in or do you want me to send you the table because this is the hard part is fear if i paste them in because to make sure they're yeah if you paste them in then i just accept them okay all right for the appendix says do you want me to send that separately because they're not currently in the report yeah i mean i can tackle them they do them as pbs yeah you make those as a separate document yeah yeah yeah you may go separate for now copy and paste it as a picture into oh yeah the same yeah if you wanted me to add it to save them the stuff if people are going to start adding their own dependencies into that other file i was going to add it into the word doc not yeah yeah either way yeah i think keeping them separate for now and then you know then we'll let's put it all together at the end and what i'll do is um when the table starts circulating i'll do a double check on the numbers that are appearing just to make sure like today i had to double check myself again and that's how i found one that i had mislabeled yeah but we can't how are we circulating i just want to be careful here we don't no we're gonna have another meeting next week right yeah you mean after next week yeah once you circulate the tables um well you can circulate the tables since we're talking about the tables okay so you could if you turn to brad you could just copy the rest of us on the table first iteration of the tables yeah i'll just review them and take some nice spot things i'll bring them to the next meeting well if kelly gets all the tables done by saturday i'll get a draft out i should be able to get one out by monday uh a redraft okay so i just i just you're gonna do it anyway i just i need time to actually check all the numbers so it comes out too late but if you send the if you do the tables by saturday and brian same time yeah that's it that's asap yeah yeah but it's because we talked about the tables what you're doing yeah that first version can much the same as brad can incorporate any edits that we talked about at this meeting he can and any new edits just don't go putting don't go putting it we should not put edits into the narrative that we haven't talked about no right so i can paste tables in but i that we talked about but don't paste in any narrative if there are additional edits on the text that people want to give to brad that we haven't talked about tonight you could do it but he just can't circulate that draft until we're in an open session that's my point is if i'm going to copy the committee it can only be with the things that we've talked about be oh you know i found a couple other nets i've got to send or other commentary that has to go solely to brad right and he can't circulate until the meeting i mean yeah if it falls in the bucket of administrative if you literally find that i i didn't mean like i i know i said that i didn't mean like typos at administrative i meant more like oh i put this chart in and here's a thought that no but yeah but if you're making a substantive change for the consideration of the committee that has to wait until well for things like discussion of long-term planning we've discussed that tonight so i can put that in that section and if you have your own additional thoughts that we weren't talking about tonight they're your thoughts you're now saying that administratively you're sending that advance me you just can't collect input after this meeting that's different from what we talked about tonight right put it in your draft and then send that draft out to everybody because that reflects things we haven't deliberated on in an open meeting right at least that's my understanding that's my understanding as well so okay this this might be a nip but for the open capital tax i did update so when i updated the section i did update it but you only sent it to brad only sent it to brad but it has since been circulated yeah but we discussed the change and i think that's live again but you did but they it was changes you guys had discussed at the last meeting what was it just updating it for the new numbers right so i mean i mean it sounds like it should be fine but this is where i don't want to no no you could ask and running down you just wait until the next meeting it's just we're running out of next meetings yeah no i don't think anybody's gonna be like i disagree with the numbers but it was just you know we didn't actually talk about it um other than yep it's been updated and we're putting in the new numbers and you know it reflected changes that were coming but beyond that yeah well it might be technical but like just when you're when you're sharing facts that we already like we've already we already had tables right yeah we've already talked about them and you're just putting them in a format to put them in the report that's those are facts versus pontification right well this is like the narrative that was not an acknowledgement by the way carol would like to sign off because this
no one told you you had to stay carol i'm sorry you decided you were in for the long haul i feel like i've had this conversation in my fourth meeting this week i'm gonna leave you okay all right good night thank you carol thank you so much okay all right should we move on in minutes yes yes are we good with there anything else okay my edits are i had an edit but we're gonna do three second bullet uh fiscal 29 and right under that it says number 17 250 that fiscal 29 should be fiscal 30.
all right
and then the other change i made on exhibit b
i just i used excluded debt and all the other tables and they for some reason put exempt debt next to the two million dollar item for the msba study so i would want to change that to excluded the consistent
any others okay kelly you said you had yes but i can't find it oh maybe you already said this at the top of page three maybe you just said this there was two things that looked very similar one was number 20 but i it says for fy 29 you agreed to include revised request for cyber security compliance number 20 and then the next bullet is cyber search yeah it was the wrong year should have been second one was fiscal okay is that what you just said yeah sorry i was too busy trying to find it glad you checked me any others okay can i have a motion to approve the minutes of september 16. so moved second second all in favor i approve four and five zero depends with five
next meeting is the 30th next wednesday 6 30. i do want to point out that um we did invite brian keveney and michael um to the meeting on october 14th uh so if they have any questions about the report uh i'm it's the 14th is that whatever that was the one right before yeah um he has to have yes if he could have a copy of the report prior to the meeting i said he could whatever draft we were working on um so just let everybody know that for that meeting they will be here um i had actually suggested brad i thought because if all goes well and the report is almost ready to be done i'm probably going to check off check off the committee uh around that time and so i thought it might give an opportunity beyond just previewing the report is to offload any parting comments about the process and i don't know when you're deciding to step aside kelly but it would be over at the same time anyway your comment now
all right so so uh so we have 9 30 and then we have um 10 7. we have basically two meetings to get this report pretty well down the road it's a heads up on the 14th i will not be able to support i'll be on travel yeah that's questionable at this point 30th and traveling 14th maybe seven of them good i think the key will be for those who can't be here is you do your best if you have credits to feed them into brad just so that we have them and he can tell us what they are yep okay um i think we're done for the evening it's been pretty productive um motion to adjourn motion to adjourn 9 13. 9 13. motion to adjourn i made it he said thank you recording stop